First of all, one is about twice the cost as the other :eek:. I do not upgrade PJs very often so I don't mind spending more money if it gets me more brightness (thus will last me a long long time). But I have other concerns about 3 chippers...

Second, the C3X1080 has not yet shipped (due in November) so it may be difficult to answer some questions.

I have never owned or seen a 3 chipper but people that have seem to go goo-goo gah-gah over them.

My theater is still being renovated but I hope to have it operational soon. As you can see by my screen size, I need lumens! Large offsets on other PJs prevents me from using them (I'm not in to tilting my screen). I prefer to have some lumens to spare so as the bulb ages I can increase the wattage or remove a filter.

Screen will be 5' x 12' wide 2.37:1 SMX, ISCO III with Cineslide.
Front row at about 13', back row at about 18'.
Distance from AT screen to back wall: about 22 1/2'.
Ceiling height at projector: about 8'.
I'd like to have the top of the screen at 7' (or there abouts).
Total light control, mostly dark colors, bit I like to have some lights up when watching NFL.

I have read various posts on the C3X1080 and HT3000E. But I'd like to discuss some of the pros and cons of each.

1. 3 chippers by their very nature will have some mis convergence. From my CRT days that is what bothered me the more than anything else. Seeing red, blue or green fringes on the play clock of a football game used to drive me crazy. Credits were bad as well. My eyesight is not as good as it once was but it's not horrible either. So for a C3X1080 that is "in spec", am I likely to see any red, green or blue edges on text or other sharply defined objects from my 13' first row? I would hate to spend nearly twice as much on a C3X and then be disappointed by mis convergence issues. If you see it on test patterns that's one thing but I would hope to not see colored fringes at 13' when viewing DVD or HD material. As Alan Gouger says, thank goodness we don't watch test patterns.

2. Will the 3000e have any problem lighting up the 5' x 12' screen. Are there lumens to spare on the 3000e for a screen of this size or am I reaching the limit?

3. It was mentioned in the HT3000E first impressions thread that the HT3000E was about 1000 lumens calibrated. Any idea of calibrated lumens for the C3X1080? It will help in understanding the power of a 3 chipper. My current PJ is an InFocus SP 7200 which I'm sure is far, far below 1000 lumens calibrated.

4. Screen door. The optics on the SIM2's are reported to be very very good. I guess the down side is perhaps I would see screen door. Should I be concerned based on my screen size and front row distance?

The HT3000e sounds like a great machine as does the C3X1080. I am torn between the trade offs of these two machines. As far as pluses and minuses go, I'm trying to identify the obvious differences. It's a given both have great optics so no need to add that to each model.

HT3000E pluses:
perfect convergence
lower cost

HT3000E minuses:
DC3 (not shabby but not DC4)
not as bright as a C3X1080
rainbows (but I have never seen them and I would hope that I continue to not see them).

C3X1080 pluses:
plenty of brightness
DC4
no rainbows

C3X1080 minuses:
mis convergence (is this an issue?)
higher cost.

Thanks.

1. The HT5000 has the best convergence of any machine going.Dont take my word, ask other owners. The C3X should be same. Typical is zero at centre and fractions of a pixel at edge. Arts and mine seem identical on that point. From 13ft you could have far larger error and never be aware. Ive seen PJs with way larger errors than my 5K and still give stellar image quality.

2. No probs. Im doing 10.5ft wide on the 380. The 3000e will give 500ish lumens more. 12ft 2.35 is about the sweet spot.

3. Calibrated lumens are 1000-2500 iris.

4. Screen door with a 1080 machine is not an issue at any meaningful distance. When my 380 is 16:9 the screen is 8ft wide, pixel structure is invisible over about 3 or 4 ft



Personally, Id suggest you ask all this in the $20k forum. Many people there actually own machines of this calibre and you will get good solid advice, gained through experience there too, without the petty nastiness you get here sometimes. It has an easy going vibe too and people understand what your trying to achieve.

Thanks coldmachine. I don't think I can move this thread but perhaps I will post a link.

For the HT3000E, would you say there lumens to spare or is it just enough? By sweet spot am I to assume you mean it's not at it's upper limit but rather it's a nice size and yet still has plenty of brightness, so much that I wouldn't be disappointed as the bulb ages?

Thanks.

Thanks coldmachine. I don't think I can move this thread but perhaps I will post a link.

For the HT3000E, would you say there lumens to spare or is it just enough? By sweet spot am I to assume you mean it's not at it's upper limit but rather it's a nice size and yet still has plenty of brightness, so much that I wouldn't be disappointed as the bulb ages?

Thanks.

Yes you'd be fine.

I'd actually copy and paste your text over and pit it in a new thread. That way people wont be jumpin around and leaving answers in 2 places thus ruining the flow.

I am getting the 1080, and one of my concerns is the mis convergence as well. Not that it will be that way when it leaves the factory, but that it may loose a bit in shipping, and I don't think there are any adjustments in the projector (at least there weren't in the 720 version).

I had the 3000e for a short while, and I saw rainbows. I am realizing that was due largely to the brightness increase over the Sharp 20K that I was used to. I think if you are going to see rainbows, it might be more likely on a brighter projector. Other than that, it was beautiful. I still think the C3X is going to have a lot more head room, and that sounds like what you want.

I am getting the 1080, and one of my concerns is the mis convergence as well. Not that it will be that way when it leaves the factory, but that it may loose a bit in shipping, and I don't think there are any adjustments in the projector (at least there weren't in the 720 version).

I had the 3000e for a short while, and I saw rainbows. I am realizing that was due largely to the brightness increase over the Sharp 20K that I was used to. I think if you are going to see rainbows, it might be more likely on a brighter projector. Other than that, it was beautiful. I still think the C3X is going to have a lot more head room, and that sounds like what you want.

While it remains to be seen just how tight the new C3X's will be in the MC area, if they are anything like the HT5000 I have (CM has posted on this as well) there should be NO issue with MC. It is sometimes stated on this forum that "ALL" 3 chippers suffer some MC. While it is true that many/most do suffer from MC, the HT5k I have does not, and I'm hopeful the new C3X will perform as well. I'm also assuming FedEx/UPS will skip the soccer practice on the unit (although with Sim's build quality, that may not be an issue either.)

Jim

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like I shouldn't be concerned about MC on the C3X1080.

Thanks for all the replies. Sounds like I shouldn't be concerned about MC on the C3X1080.

No problem. Get yourself on over to the big boys forum.

No problem. Get yourself on over to the big boys forum.

I'll tippy toe on over there. :)

Reference to C3X 1080:
My Screen is 104" wide (16:9). My first row of seating is 12.5' from eyeball to screen or a ratio of (distance/screen width) 1.44. My primary concern will someone with 20/20 vision note the screen door effect? At what ratio will you begin to see screen door?

Tony

is screen door a reported problem with the c3x1080?

is screen door a reported problem with the c3x1080?

No. People are just asking about pixel structure distances.

Reference to C3X 1080:
My Screen is 104" wide (16:9). My first row of seating is 12.5' from eyeball to screen or a ratio of (distance/screen width) 1.44. My primary concern will someone with 20/20 vision note the screen door effect? At what ratio will you begin to see screen door?

Tony

No you wont, and not at half that distance either.

Basically SDE doesnt exist with 1080 machines at meaningfull distances. I have my front row at less than 1 width with my HT5000 on a 14ft screen and its not even close to visible.

coldmachine - thanks for the information.

Tony

coldmachine - thanks for the information.

Tony

No probs. I actually measured the ratio with the HT380 and the HT3000e and it was inside 0.5 sw, so you could move a bit closer if needed.

No you wont, and not at half that distance either.

Basically SDE doesnt exist with 1080 machines at meaningfull distances. I have my front row at less than 1 width with my HT5000 on a 14ft screen and its not even close to visible.


i have a great room, in my opinion a fun room. but most here would probably think of it as sucky.
one feature is a giant ass bean bag, big enough for 3 or 4. that bag sits in the middle of the floor. kids often sit on the bag or on the floor in front of that bean bag. sometimes, depending upon the action they stand up and jump, run around in the space between the bag and the screen. so people may be as close as 3 feet from the screen.

whats that like?
will there be a problem with the c3x1080 viewed from those distances?
also i watch hd dvd and bluray, hd cable sports and shows and ps3 gaming. which one fits the bill, 3000e or c3x1080?

does anyone know if the sim2 c3x1080 have "e" built in?

does anyone know if the sim2 c3x1080 have "e" built in?
Yes.
If you are interested in the 3 chip image, I've posted a load of screens over in the $20k forum from my HT5000. I would imagine the C3X1080 will have similar PQ

Coldmachine, thanks for all your help both publicly and via PM. I pulled the trigger on the C3X1080. :eek: I am exited, nervous, and above all else much poorer! :eek::eek::eek:

I blame the CIH forum. If I had never gone in there I would not have spent money on a new 2.37:1 screen (SMX), an anamorphic lens (ISCO III) yikes!, a Cineslide, theater renovation and this new PJ. Didn't have too much choice with my screen size, I needed a light cannon. I do feel this PJ will last me a long, long time (it had better!).

As far as deciding between the HT3000E and C3X1080 at least I can say I'm getting 3X the chips for only twice the money :D.

At least I am not paying labor for the theater renovation as I'm doing that myself. The C3X1080 is giving me new a new sense of urgency to get the theater done, so that's a good thing as the theater renovation was started 1 year ago.

Bye Bye new car, at least projectors get better gas mileage. ;)

Todd

Cool. I'm getting one too. As I said, I've plenty experience with these machines and if you have any issues you need help with just post or PM.

See you in the big boys forum

I suppose I will have to go there to get any help on the C3X 1080 but to be honest I like this forum better. The $20K and up forum covers so much more than just PJs. This forum is more focused.

But then again, now that I pulled the trigger I should stay away from the PJ forums for it won't be long before the next "best thing" is upon us. I'd rather not know about it :D Honestly though it won't bother me, I tend to keep PJs for many years. I was happy with my InFocus 7200 for quit some time, even though it is many models behind the curve. But now is a good time for me to upgrade.

I'm sure I will be thrilled for a very long time!.

CM thanks for the offer to help. I may need to take you up on that. :)

Anyone have any idea when the user manual for the C3X1080 will be posted on the net?

Does any one know how many lumens the Ht 3000E puts out. from Jasons review I see the 380 puts out about 780 lumens. What is the Ansi and on off contrast numbers for both projectors.

I saw the 3000e at Cedia and was really impressed with the image quality. I was planning on buying an RS2 this year but now I am, and I can't believe I am saying this, considering a single chip DLP.

1050+

Does any one know how many lumens the Ht 3000E puts out. from Jasons review I see the 380 puts out about 780 lumens. What is the Ansi and on off contrast numbers for both projectors.

I saw the 3000e at Cedia and was really impressed with the image quality. I was planning on buying an RS2 this year but now I am, and I can't believe I am saying this, considering a single chip DLP.

The 3000e will give around 400 more, bank on around 1100, remember thats D65 lumens. In ideal conditions the 380 will give around 6500 and the 3000e will tip 7000. ANSI on both is over 700. Obviously the room will play a big part in what is actually achievable by any individual. These machines are also capable of high contrast figures at full brightness, no need for an iris and choosing cr or brightness.

Anyone have any idea when the user manual for the C3X1080 will be posted on the net?

Due to the menu structure and modular VP on the PJs the manuals are all almost identical. If you've used any current Sim2 you can use any other without a manual.

Was there anything in particular?

Coldmachine, what can we expect in the way of D65 lumens for the C3X 1080 in Low and High lamp mode?

Thanks coldmachine. I don't think I can move this thread but perhaps I will post a link.

For the HT3000E, would you say there lumens to spare or is it just enough? By sweet spot am I to assume you mean it's not at it's upper limit but rather it's a nice size and yet still has plenty of brightness, so much that I wouldn't be disappointed as the bulb ages?

Thanks.

1000 lumens will give you around 16 foot lamberts for a screen gain of 1 . the theater people recommend 12 to 16ft lamberts So I think your marginal because you are starting with 16ft lamberts as the lamp ages you will get less.

1500 lumens would be abou right.

How many of us use a screen gain of 1?

Screen gain of 1.4 effectively makes 1000 lumens, 1400 lumens - though some say there are major tradeoffs - that is not an inordinately high screen gain.

How many of us use a screen gain of 1?

Screen gain of 1.4 effectively makes 1000 lumens, 1400 lumens - though some say there are major tradeoffs - that is not an inordinately high screen gain.

If you have a screen gain of 1.4 than the 380 looks about right. The lamp will probably lose 20 percent of its power after 200 hours.