« Ausiello Report Eliza Dushku Lures Joss Whedon Back to TV!

Short of a Buffy the Vampire Slayer reunion movie, this is just about the best news you could ask for: Eliza Dushku and Joss Whedon are reteaming for a new series! (Told ya it would be worth tearing yourself away from the candy corn to drop by The Ausiello Report.) Here are the five things you have to know about the show, and I mean now:

1. It's a one-hour drama produced by 20th Century Fox to air on Fox. The first of the seven episodes to which the network has committed could premiere as early as spring.

2. It's called Dollhouse because that's the nickname of the high-tech lab where a group of human chalkboards are kept between assignments.

3. Human chalkboards?! Yes! What else would you call characters like Dushku's Echo who can be given new memories, skills and even personalities, then stripped of them just as quickly, leaving them virtual children.

4. Whedon is the creator, head writer and executive producer, and perhaps in part because Dushku convinced him to do the show, she's getting a producer credit. (Fellow Buffyverse alum Tim Minear is also on board.)

5. I just got off the phone with both of them!

First things first: How in the hellmouth did Dushku get her Buffy and Angel boss to do it? In a word, food. Shortly after she signed a development deal with Fox in August, "I called the one man that I knew I wanted to do [a series] with and had to have to have the best show possible" and invited him to lunch, she says. "And he was seduced!"

Actually, hypnotized, Whedon counters. "Eliza was wearing a hat with a big spiraling wheel on it, and she kept saying, 'Look into the wheel. You want to make television. You want it to be about me… ' It sounds hokey, but it really worked."

And how. Not only did Dushku get Whedon to agree to work on the project, but what she calls their "contagious, freaky, awesome energy" at that very get-together inspired him to create it. "I came up with [the concept] at lunch completely spontaneously, based on my conversation with Eliza," he insists. "It wasn't [an idea] that I was nurturing or that I tailored or I tried to retro-fit to her."

So what is the concept, exactly? Explains Whedon: "Dollhouse is a suspense drama about a girl who can have any personality except her own." So it's part Alias and part Quantum Leap, "because Echo is literally changing who she is," he continues. "She gets into people's lives a little bit."

Even Dushku's. "I relate so much to this character," she marvels. "Echo is essentially the story of my life. I've lived a crazy life the past 16 years, traveling around the world and then tripping and falling into this business. Everyone wants you to transform and be a different person every week."

Great chemistry and intriguing premise notwithstanding, you'd think that after Fox snuffed Whedon's Firefly and hung up on Dushku's Tru Calling, one or both of them would have been more than a little hesitant to get back into bed with the network. "Honestly? Walking back into that building was pretty damn strange," Whedon admits. But "I always had a good relationship with [20th Century Fox], and on the network end, it's a completely new bunch of people, and from what I’ve seen, a fairly impressive bunch."

Dushku seconds that emotion. "I really get the sense that they're committed to [this show]… It feels right."

Besides, as Whedon notes, "I told them I was interested in writing a pilot, and they gave me seven episodes. They’ve already shown more support for it than I have."

Now it's your turn to show the comeback kids some love. And, like Dushku, I don't think you'll let them down. "We have the best fans in the business [in the] the Buffy and Whedon universe," she says. "It’s going to be pandemonium when this [news] hits." And it's only just begun. — Additional reporting by Ben Katner

Great info, thanx.
Now if Whedon can keep his ego under control, maybe we will have another winner like Buffy and Angel.:)

Thanks for this heads up. I'm there, keep us posted!

Hmmmm, sounds like an odd premise that hopefully can cover ground NBC isn't already beating into the ground this season. This sounds like a blend of some animes though, Gunsmith Girls crossed with Kite perhaps. Also sounds like too much temptation for Whedons "kung-fu girl" fetish to really take over. Should be a good way to stretch some acting chops for the leads though, no doubt some other Whedon favorites will pop up.

But why in the HELL did these guys go back to FOX???? How much punishment do these guys need to take before they learn? The concept is WAY too highbrow for Fox marketing to understand so I expect a lot of confusing action scenes with an overlay of "From the creator of Buffy and Angel...", mostly played during baseball and girly comedies (i.e. completely the wrong market). Plus a 7 ep commitment smacks of second ep cancellation much like Drive. Sheesh, now my day is ruined.

Great info, thanx.
Now if Whedon can keep his ego under control, maybe we will have another winner like Buffy and Angel.:)
I love Whedon’s work. I liked Firefly as much as I did Buffy, which is to say that I liked it a whole lot. I still can’t understand why Fox cancelled it but they did, alas.

Eliza Dushku is a terrific young actress (26) and the idea of casting her as a character who takes on a whole new personality each week has promise. I was a little surprised to see that Whedon is getting back into bed with Fox, given the apparent bitterness of his breakup with them following Firefly’s cancellation. Perhaps his apparent inability to get a new gig since “Serenity” in 2005 is the reason.

The concept is WAY too highbrow for Fox marketing to understand so I expect a lot of confusing action scenes with an overlay of "From the creator of Buffy and Angel...", mostly played during baseball and girly comedies (i.e. completely the wrong market). Plus a 7 ep commitment smacks of second ep cancellation much like Drive. Sheesh, now my day is ruined.
I am inclined to agree that the show seems a little too smart for Fox’s suits, but then the term ,“dumb network exec,” is an oxymoron, if ever there was one, so the show may be an little too smart for any network’s suits.

Sounds pretty interesting, I think Whedon has done some good stuff.

I'm a casual fan - watched the first 4 or 5 seasons of Buffy, a season or two of Angel, saw Serenity before any Firefly EPs (started watching them afterwords in re-broadcast).

I mentioned this since I know there are *rabid* fans that think he can do no wrong. I do think when he's at the top of his game he's one of the more talented people working in TV. Dushku is a pretty solid actress with the right "character optimization" (i.e., write to her performance style), attractive (much more so than the Veronica Mars chick everyone is drooling over in the Heroes thread...subjective I know...), I think she'll work for this.

I'm assuming he needs to work like anyone else, and hasn't really done anything substantial recently - I figure even with Fox's reputation, he said to himself OK, I've got 7 episodes, creative control (writing/directing and I think producing as well?), and with my fan-base the potential to make something that will last.

~DT

I am inclined to agree that the show seems a little too smart for Fox’s suits, but then the term ,“dumb network exec,” is an oxymoron, if ever there was one, so the show may be an little too smart for any network’s suits.

I don't think "dumb network exec" is an oxymoron, I do believe it's a bit redundant though. :)

So is Wheden resurrecting Mutant Enemy? I thought they closed their doors when Firefly folded...

will there be more than one "doll"? cause I want Morena Baccarin and Jewel Staite back on TV.

Hmm, this sounds like an interesting premise for a show but one thing I wonder about. Generally people like to follow shows because they get to know the characters and become vested in them. If the lead character is essentially a "different" person every week (or for each story line anyway), it would seem to take that away from them. Will be interesting to see how they work around that.


ron

How could this "Human Chalkboard" idea not be abused, especially if Eliza and Morena were "Chalkboards?" Would not the mad scientists program those ladies with memories and personalities that convinced them they were madly in love with the scientists?

I'll give this one 3 episodes.

Joss Whedon is foolish for working with Fox..period.

and no surprise that oink, the firefly troll, made a special appearance in the first reply to this thread.

I want Morena Baccarin and Jewel Staite back on TV.Jewel Staite is back on TV. She has a recurring role on Stargate: Atlantis

;12080838']Dushku is a pretty solid actress with the right "character optimization" (i.e., write to her performance style), attractive (much more so than the Veronica Mars chick everyone is drooling over in the Heroes thread...subjective I know...), I think she'll work for this.
I like “the Veronica Mars chick,” Kristen Bell a lot, too. She is pretty but her best attribute is her acting ability. She played a young whore in a couple of episodes of Deadwood’s first season and blew me away. She can sing, too, and was terrific in “Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical.” I think that she is also very good in her current recurring role on Heroes, where she plays a bad girl with super powers.

wow roger...no matter how closely I follow whedon gossip you still find stuff I haven't heard of.:) Thanks for the info...
In defense of oink, he's proven to be much more than a "firefly troll". Don't fully understand how Joss' ego caused the failure of Firefly and Serenity though. And I'm a little wary of Minear's involvement. He's never been my favorite writer in the whedonverse, and more importantly has got quite a track record of being involved with short lived shows...still, right now, all I can say is...YAY!!!

This has several things going against it:

1) Joss is dealing with Fox again. Honestly, this sounds like a better companion piece to something like Kyle XY on ABC Family or perhaps Lost on ABC.

2) There's a writer's strike coming up right as it's being developed. Delays will only hurt the chances of it getting on the schedule.

3) Joss tends to be "set in his ways". Sometimes you have to be ready to compromise on your "vision" in order to get something done. Time and again, he's tried to fight that when he really doesn't have enough juice to do so.

I hope I'm wrong and it succeeds. It sounds like a good show. In addition, that sort of plot appeals to my tastes.

I wish him luck and let's hope he and Fox can get it done this time.

"I came up with [the concept] at lunch completely spontaneously, based on my conversation with Eliza," he insists.

To have 'THAT' kind of talent is awe inspiring. The ability to eat lunch and pass a creative sci-fi TV series. That gets my vote for the next HERO super.

If it succedes I predict he'll never have to pay for lunch again. :)

I don't think "dumb network exec" is an oxymoron, I do believe it's a bit redundant though. :)
Yeah, I meant to say “smart network exec.” Anyway there was some sort of “moron” at work there, which might have been me. :)

Sounds a lot like this book: http://www.amazon.com/All-My-Sins-Remembered-Gollancz/dp/0575072814 only not as good.

;12080838']I do think when he's at the top of his game he's one of the more talented people working in TV. Dushku is a pretty solid actress with the right "character optimization" (i.e., write to her performance style), attractive (much more so than the Veronica Mars chick everyone is drooling over in the Heroes thread...subjective I know...), I think she'll work for this.

As much as I liked Veronica Mars and the looks of Kristin Bell - she doesn't hold a candle to Eliza.

I'm placing the over/under at Episode 3 for the first episode that she gets the "promiscuous hot chick with a taste for skimpy clothes" personality. ;)

As much as I liked Veronica Mars and the looks of Kristin Bell - she doesn't hold a candle to Eliza.

I'm placing the over/under at Episode 3 for the first episode that she gets the "promiscuous hot chick with a taste for skimpy clothes" personality. ;)
I say, she ends up soaking wet in the pilot wearing cloths that cling like Saran Wrap when drenched. ;)

CPanther and NetworkTV: There is a writers' strike pending; perhaps you gentlemen could submit some teleplays to JW for consideration? I like the direction you're taking the show...

CPanther and NetworkTV: There is a writers' strike pending; perhaps you gentlemen could submit some teleplays to JW for consideration? I like the direction you're taking the show...
As long as I don't have to join a union. I've avoided being in one for most of my 15+ years in TV and I don't want to go back to the BS I endured when I was in one.

There is a writers' strike pending
I thought JW wrote the scripts?

joe, JW does write some scripts for his shows; I just wanted to see Panther's and NetworkTV's ideas on-screen...

Well I'm interested. I'm also ready for it to be cancelled. One gambles with Fox, Whedon, and genre shows.

But why in the HELL did these guys go back to FOX???? How much punishment do these guys need to take before they learn? The concept is WAY too highbrow for Fox marketing to understand so I expect a lot of confusing action scenes with an overlay of "From the creator of Buffy and Angel...", mostly played during baseball and girly comedies (i.e. completely the wrong market). Plus a 7 ep commitment smacks of second ep cancellation much like Drive. Sheesh, now my day is ruined.Exactly.

I thought JW wrote the scripts?

Chuck Lorre is creater/producer/writer (Two and a Half Men, Big Bang Theory) and one of his recent vanity cards ended with "See you on the picket line". See #190 here: http://www.chucklorre.com/index.php?p=190

I can see JW supporting the writers.

Sorry, Mr Whedon is not allowed to do any new projects unless and until he makes a Wonder Woman movie that doesn't suck!

Eliza interview from E! Online:

From Eonline.com - By Webmaster - 2007-11-1
Eliza Dushku - "Dollhouse" Tv Series - Eonline.com Interview
Eliza Dushku as Faith on Buffy

Congrats on the show—this is so exciting. First off, how did it come about?

It was the best scenario. Basically, I went in with Peter [Chernin] and all the heads over at Fox, and they really honestly and really confidently told me that they wanted me to come in as a producer and an actress. They told me to bring them the material that in my heart I wanted to do.

So, I sat on it for a couple of weeks. I knew Joss was working on other things, and his Wonder Woman stuff, but he’s been a friend since I moved out here, when I was 17. He became my favorite writer/genius, and I’ve always said I’ll follow that guy anywhere. So, I called him just to have coffee, and talk about life and what I was going to do with this deal. And we got to talking. He just gets women, which is the most amazing thing. He gets them, and I think that was clear from all his past things, from Buffy.

He can use the science fiction, and he can use these metaphors or exaggerations—but he gets women, and he gets people. He gets down to the real human emotion and the real beating heart.

So, we talked about life, and we were telling each other crazy stories about the things we had done in the past time since we had talked, and the Internet and download that thing, and we talked about hunting, and that person with that fetish, and that thing we were trying to do, and that woman we knew, and that fear that we had, and all of the sudden, it was locked in, and the rest was history, and we have this crazy, exciting bomb-ass new show.

Are you already prepping to be Echo?

Yes, I’m already training and getting ready for it. I’ll be a different Echo every week, which is great for my ADHD personality, it’s truly—the stars aligned in this one, the timing, the people, the creative ability, the potential is really there. I can’t wait for the fans to finally hear about it, because I’ve been asked about it for years, is there going to be a spinoff. Everything happens for a reason, and timing is just right here.

It sounds like you guys developed it together. Can you talk about how you came up with Echo, and the concept of the actual Dollhouse, and not just the show?

We did kind of come up with it together, and that’s one of the cool things—I’ll be one of the producers of the show and it’s eventually kind of a story of my life. I’ve had kind of a crazy life, traveling around the world with my mother at a young age, going on these crazy trips and adventures, and then being in this business. It is the story of who I am, in this business especially, like the objectification of people, and who people want to make other people into, and people clicking a button and thinking they can make something happen.

We have so much control in this day and age with the Internet and television and what we want and our desires and fantasies and thinking we can make them come true. And all of this, I think, just makes this such a smart concept, because it’s all infiltrated in there, and it’s part me and it’s part the world. It’s part people’s fantasies, people’s demons, their high times, their low times, their hilarious times and in between, mixed with—I gotta have some serious action, because that’s just, like, I realized that a procedural show isn’t right for me. I need to be jumping out of a car or kicking butt or making love.

It sounds like you’ll get to do all of that with this. Another thing I liked about the pitch was that there’s a whole bunch of you, you’re all in this dollhouse, and you’re all trying to find yourselves one way or the other. Can you talk about other parts, other casting? Anything like that yet?

Yeah, we have, and it’s nice, again, that we kind of have similar tastes. I think that we all know, we can kind of see it and feel it and taste it, and it’s just kind of about putting it together, and getting the orchestra and getting all the variables into the equation. But we’re both major fans of some of the previous people that we’ve worked with in other shows, and we also have writers from Buffy that are going to be coming over and joining us. It’s just going to be—it’s gonna be fun to watch I think. Because I think people are going to be excited at what we have.

Everyone is super-super-excited I guarantee you—I squealed.

The Red Sox won the World Series again, and things are good—I have my boy [Brad Penny], and he’s going to be playing baseball for the Dodgers next year, and I’ll be here shooting my show for Fox. It’s all gonna be good.

Joss interview:

From Eonline.com - By Webmaster - 2007-11-1
Joss Whedon - "Dollhouse" Tv Series - Eonline.com Interview
Dollhouse

So, first of all, congratulations!! I’m freaking out. And thanks for thinking of me for this news.

You’re welcome, and thank you. I remember last time I saw you on the Office set, you said, "Come back to TV." So, it was all you. That’s what caused it, so...

Ha! Well, thank you for doing this for me.

Yes, that’s going to be the poster: "Dollhouse: It’s for Kristin."

I love that you are reuniting with Ms. Eliza Dushku.

I know. How ’bout that?

Can you tell me how this all came about?

Through a rather time-honored tradition called "lunch." Eliza had her deal with Fox, and we went to lunch, as we sometimes do, to talk about her career and what her next step should be. Like, do I know writers, and what was the best way to protect herself, and what type of show. Eliza and I do this sometimes, because she’s a friend and a great talent, and that’s easily misused. She was trying to protect herself, and I was trying to get a free lunch. In the middle of lunch, I came up with the idea of this show and the title by accident.

Tell me this isn’t that easy for you...that it just came to you in between bites.

I went to the bathroom and came back and said, "I figured it out." So, there it is. It took longer than between bites. It came so organically through our conversation, and what I know she is capable of, and what she was talking about and what people were expecting of her. It just kinda happened, and when it happens like that and it has a title. That’s a big deal—if it has a title, you can’t just turn your back on it. So, I told her, and she freaked out, and I told her I was busy with these films I am trying to set up, but Fox is interested, and Fox said let’s do seven episodes instead of a pilot, and here I am.

So, you have a seven-episode commitment?

Yeah.

In your own words, how would you describe Dollhouse?

The idea is those with the money or connections can access this secret highly illegal facility where they can basically fulfill their greatest fantasies. Most people assume that means sex—and on an occasion it does, because that is a lot of people’s fantasies—but it’s basically scenarios. They can basically reenact scenarios of romance, adventure or anything perfectly, because they become the person that you want them to be—they become that person. They don’t act like that person, they are not a robot pretending, they become that person, and then they forget all about it. The problem is the character of Echo, Eliza Dushku’s character, stops forgetting. She doesn’t completely remember, but she does realize she is a person, and that she might have been a person before she did this, and she doesn’t know what that is.

Do you feel like this is a very different role for Eliza, or are there some commonalities with her Buffy or Tru Calling roles?

Every now and then she will be called upon to kick ass because one of the many personalities she can get downloaded with is sort of a Femme Nikita—she can be the best of whatever she does, and that includes sweat work—and whatever she is hired for and she isn’t harmed, and the company isn’t exposed, they don’t really care what it is. Some of her jobs are sweet and uplifting, but yeah, sometimes she’ll be a sweet girl, others she will be that down-home Eliza thing—go Sox—and sometimes she will be completely elegant, completely naive, completely helpless. She could be a neuroscientist, she could be ballroom dancing, she could be doing absolutely anything.

The thing about Eliza is that she has a lot of colors to play like most good actresses, but Eliza has kinda gotten pigeonholed. I see those big eyes, and I see the innocence they can play, the decency that is in them and the way that we can refer, and that isn’t just hey, I’m the tough girl. There’s much more there.

Why the decision to return to television now? Do you feel like you are finally ready to dig back in?

I have to say, when they told me seven, part of me was like tired, scared...basically because I haven’t been in that world, and I have children, and I don’t like to not be around them, which is problematic. But the fact is, it was also somebody saying we trust that you can tell this story, and we love this story, so go and tell it. That’s a damn boat of confidence. That’s a grown-up license fee, it was a big commitment, and they weren’t afraid at any point. My experience with the movies hasn’t gone quite as well. It isn’t terrible to hear yes, instead of the other thing.

In terms of TV, I have tried to be very clear that there’s nothing about TV that I don’t love. I mean, I’ve always loved movies, and I still want to make movies—movies are cool, but TV has things that movies never have. The ability to really just delve into something and take it apart endlessly, which I adore. It’s very organic.

I went home to my wife, and we’ve been talking about doing lower-budget movies and not being beholden by these tent-pole things that I couldn’t get off the ground, and I said, "Honey, I accidentally created this Fox show," and she said great. She completely got it because it was completely organic. It was the next thing—you couldn’t deny it. When an idea comes that fast and that fully, you don’t ever say no.

The bathroom trip that changed Joss Whedon’s life.

[Laughs.] I hate to say it, but occasionally there have been some inspirational bathroom trips. Or if I am at a restaurant with the writers, and they go, and when they come back and have figured it out. I think it’s just getting a moment to yourself. Though, we have to stress it’s not the act of going to the bathroom...that’s not good! That’s not what it is.

I wanted to ask about the timing of this. This is being announced a day or two before the writers’ strike. How will this affect the show?

All of this happened before the strike. They had to make my deal, and you can’t say anything until the deal is done. Eliza has been sitting on this for a month, and it all happened in a week. We had lunch, and a few days later I wrote a treatment, and then I wrote an episode guide, a pilot outline and even a poster. I Photoshopped a poster one night. A couple days after that I went to Fox, and a couple days later they gave us the seven. Eliza and I were dying to get onto the Internet or do something, and everyone was like, there’s no deal yet so you can’t say anything. So...now, when they finally close the deal, there is no more writing involved.

Wait, what? You mean all seven scripts have been written?

No, no—are you kidding? I didn’t spend that much time in the bathroom. All seven scripts have been pitched, all stories have been pitched.

So, if the strike were to take place, it would delay the project...

This would delay everything. This is certainly no exception to anything. The strike has to happen. I wish it didn’t, but it has to, and it has to go on for as long as it has to. When that is done, this will start and a few months after that, we will be filming. If there were no strike, we would be looking at something like February.

So, you support the strike?

I will be busy picketing. I support the guild, and I think what we are doing is unfortunate, but necessary. And that means I don’t get to have my fun, but that isn’t the point. It is classic for me, by the way, to be going, "Yes! New show! With Eliza!" But...Strike.

This will give your fans a light at the end of the tunnel in the event of a strike.

If they feel they are getting comfortable with their routine of reality television, let them know about this. It’s going to be really cool. It is freaking nuts to be doing a show with Eliza, but it just feels great.

Do you think any Buffy people might come on the show, or do you think you are going to try to separate?

I think it’s important to separate, but if you have somebody who can do the job, that is the person you should hire. When it comes to the first flush, I think it’s important to be a step forward, and not a reunion. We aren’t playing games. I never rule anybody out, but my first instinct is to try out new people because it is me and Eliza.

I have to tell you this is like Christmas for Buffy fans. They have been waiting for you to come back to television—so, we have this news tonight, and we have your Office episode tomorrow night...it’s like this perfect storm of a Whedonverse holiday.

If it was six more things, it would be Hanukkah. I’ll work on that.

I'm placing the over/under at Episode 3 for the first episode that she gets the "promiscuous hot chick with a taste for skimpy clothes" personality. ;)

Hahaha!

*fingers crossed*

Am I the only person who finds that some of this repeats themes that were probably going to be explored in the broader River Tam story arc from Firefly had it survived into a season two and three? Maybe even part of the utterly unexplored Inara story arc.

I certainly hope it does, because the alternative is that Whedon has surrendered and is giving in to the type of exploitation he so roundly condemns all the time.

Also, can't someone convince Whedon to get Tim Minear away from him? Minear has a looong history of dead shows. Decent enough writer and show runner, but Minear really just can't shake the bad vibes.

I cannot believe that Minear, even more than Whedon, is coming back to Fox after Drive was pretty much thrown under the bus after a few episodes. Drive wasn't a great show, but for the amount of hoopla Fox churned out, one might have thought Drive could have made it to eight episodes or so.

We'll see. I'm not hedging my bets, especially with Fox on board.

Brad Penny? Geesh, I gotta start watching more E!

Also, can't someone convince Whedon to get Tim Minear away from him? Minear has a looong history of dead shows. Decent enough writer and show runner, but Minear really just can't shake the bad vibes.


Whedon & Minear & Fox. What could possibly go wrong?

Hmmm, Whedons comments add some depth to the show. I thought it was some sort of Alias/Bionic Woman deal where the "echo" is used as some sort of deep cover operative. If it is more of a "act out your fantasies" show then I can see it hitting lots of themes such as loss, regret, love, and anger in more direct ways than Whedons usual subtle touch (i.e. buried under sarcastic humor and flying stuntmen).

I can plots where a man uses Echo to apologize for a rape, a kid wants to spend time with his dead mother, and maybe even terrorists who need a killed scientist to finish their master plan :) I guess it depends on how they play off the memory thing (I bet it involves a Clockwork Orange style forced video montage viewing!) and how much behind the scenes stuff they show.

Whedon is typically action oriented, but this could be more along the lines of Quantam Leap/Touched by an Angel in themes (the more classic "help a stranger every week" shows I can remember) than A-team or Buffy.

At any rate, should be a chance for Elisa to showcase her acting skills. Hopefully she is paired with some good character actors.

Fox does tend to cancel anything interesting but I am still very much looking forward to the first (half?) season of this show.

- Tom (very much an Eliza fan)

Sorry, Mr Whedon is not allowed to do any new projects unless and until he makes a Wonder Woman movie that doesn't suck!

Whedon was dropped from the Wonder Woman project. The studio is "going in another direction".

the Wonder Woman movie is on indefinite hold now, we'll next see WW onscreen in the JLA movie, due to start filming fairly soon.

I will look forward to this...but Fox can't do anything right, from news to some great shows they've cancelled early.
To bad Fox is in control of this show, it could spell an early doom for what might be a great show that's just to smart for Fox.

I'm an eternal optimist, so I believe Fox will promote and program this show well, and it will be a huge hit. Oh, who am I kidding, you're right, look at the folks involved with the show, and their Fox track records, Joss Whedon's "Firefly", Eliza Dushku's "Tru Calling" and Tim Minear's "Drive" and "Wonderfalls." (At least, I think he worked on Wonderfalls, I could be wrong about that, I know it was really Bryan Fuller's baby.)

EDIT: Okay, just jumped over to IMDB, Tim Minear also exec-produced two more failed Fox shows "The Inside" and "Standoff"

I'm an eternal optimist, so I believe Fox will promote and program this show well, and it will be a huge hit. Oh, who am I kidding, you're right, look at the folks involved with the show, and their Fox track records, Joss Whedon's "Firefly", Eliza Dushku's "Tru Calling" and Tim Minear's "Drive" and "Wonderfalls." (At least, I think he worked on Wonderfalls, I could be wrong about that, I know it was really Bryan Fuller's baby.)

EDIT: Okay, just jumped over to IMDB, Tim Minear also exec-produced two more failed Fox shows "The Inside" and "Standoff"

Yeah, but none of them had anything to do with "Vivi Laughlin", "Emily's Reasons Why Not" or "The Chevy Chase Show" so they're still a bit ahead of the curve...

Now that the writer's strike is over, does anyone know when Dollhouse will premiere?

Hmm, this sounds like an interesting premise for a show but one thing I wonder about. Generally people like to follow shows because they get to know the characters and become vested in them. If the lead character is essentially a "different" person every week (or for each story line anyway), it would seem to take that away from them. Will be interesting to see how they work around that.


ron

easy flahsbacks or cuts to side plots involving people who know about her but obviously won't reveal too much all at one.

this has me excited.

Now that the writer's strike is over, does anyone know when Dollhouse will premiere?TV Guide's Michael Ausiello addressed this question in his latest column (http://www.tvguide.com/Ask-Ausiello/080220):
Question: So now that the strike is over, what's the status of Joss Whedon's Dollhouse? Spill! — Jen
Ausiello: The status is Joss is pounding out a pilot script at this very moment. Barring any major hiccups, the show could be on the air as early as fall.

If Sarah Connor tanks, they can hopefully add Summer Glau to this show. She and Eliza would be great together.

Joss, Eliza...high hopes.

Fox...hopes tempered.

the Wonder Woman movie is on indefinite hold now, we'll next see WW onscreen in the JLA movie, due to start filming fairly soon.

JLA was indefintely put on hold due to the WGA strike and all the cast was let go so it will be a while.

all I needed to read was Eliza Dushku. I'd watch her paint a wall in HD.

all I needed to read was Eliza Dushku. I'd watch her paint a wall in HD.

Go watch "after the sunset" Salma Hayek paints a deck in overalls. Amazing.

Go watch "after the sunset" Salma Hayek paints a deck in overalls. Amazing.

Just overalls? :eek: That would be amazing!

Go watch "after the sunset" Salma Hayek paints a deck in overalls. Amazing.
Why would a deck be wearing overalls? And what was Salma wearing? ;)

Just overalls? :eek: That would be amazing!

the movie is full of beauty shots of salma but no frontal nudity for that go watch frida.

the movie is full of beauty shots of salma but no frontal nudity for that go watch frida.

Or 'Desperado'.

She played Satanico Pandemonium in From Dusk 'Till Dawn and her dance number was rather stimulating.

the movie is full of beauty shots of salma but no frontal nudity for that go watch frida.

Or 'Desperado'.

I thought the only nude scene (where any naughty bits were actually exposed) she had done was in "Ask the Dust". But those two flicks as well, huh? Good to know. ;)

new trailer for the show:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GqkPGZpkBws
I think the submitter added some titles because the opening looks really bad production wise but there is a lot of authentic footage there.
http://origin.aintitcool.com/images2007/dollhouse.jpg
there was a full scene posted on friday but the server hosting it went down(i'll try ad find a mirror). Fox also annouced that this show along with jj Abrams new series "fringe" will have only 5 minutes of paid commercials when they air. They haven't said if that means more actual show content or what.

looks good, but again...if fox's is expecting 10 million viewers per episode, this will be gone after the initial order. If this were on CBS it would have a better shot of commanding more viewers - People just don't take Fox seriously because of all their reality crap

FOX had the number one new drama this past season (Sara Conners) and HOUSE is a top ten show as well. FOX is doing just fine and CBS viewers are out of the demographic for Dollhouse.

Actually Fox management has said it will add six to eight minutes of programming to each episode.

One reason Fox is leaving commercials out is to increase the amount of program material. The other major reason is to make the remaining commercials stand out.

...Fox also annouced that this show along with jj Abrams new series "fringe" will have only 5 minutes of paid commercials when they air. They haven't said if that means more actual show content or what.

As posted late Thursday in the Hot Off The Press sticky.....

Fox Plans to Run Fewer Ads in 2 New Prime-Time Dramas
By Bill Carter, The New York Times, May 16, 2008

The Fox network announced a new approach Thursday to keep viewers hooked on shows: give them fewer commercials.

Peter Liguori, president of Fox Entertainment, announced a plan that would allow two of its new dramas, “Fringe” and “Dollhouse,” to run as many as 50 minutes of story each episode. Standard dramas now average program lengths of 42 to 44 minutes.

“The business needed a jolt,” Mr. Liguori said. “Everybody has been talking about these business initiatives that have nothing to do with the audience.”

The goal, he said, is to get advertisers to pay more per commercial in these shows because the commercials will stand out more.

Showing no fear of the star power of Barack Obama (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and Hillary Clinton (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/hillary_rodham_clinton/index.html?inline=nyt-per), the Fox network also announced Thursday that it would kick off its new television season by going head to head with the Democratic National Convention (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/d/democratic_party/index.html?inline=nyt-org) the week of Aug. 25.

Fox will open the season with two-hour premieres of four of its series that week, led by the return of its action drama “Prison Break” on Monday, Aug. 25. The following night the network will introduce “Fringe,” a science-fiction series from the producer J. J. Abrams, one of the creators of the hit “Lost.”

On Wednesday, when the Democratic candidate is officially nominated, Fox will counter with a two-hour season premiere of its crime series, “Bones.”

And for those not disposed to watch the acceptance speech of the Democratic nominee on Thursday, Fox will offer two hours of children embarrassing adults on the game show “Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/bu...gewanted=print (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/16/business/media/16fox.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&ref=media&pagewanted=print)

and more.....

Fox Cutting Commercials for New Shows
Fringe, Dollhouse to Have Fewer than Five Minutes of Advertising
By Ben Grossman, Broadcasting & Cable, 5/15/2008

Fox (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6561291.html) said it will run rookie fall drama Fringe (http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6559671.html) and rookie midseason drama Dollhouse with one-half the commercial interruptions in a test it is calling "Remote Free TV."

The network will air the shows with less than five minutes of national commercial spots and network promos in an attempt to discourage audience churn during the shows.

Fox executives made the announcement during their upfront presentation Thursday afternoon in New York.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6561448.html


Fox Broadcasting announced Thursday that it would drastically reduce the commercial levels of two shows -- "Fringe" and "Dollhouse" -- in an effort to reinvigorate broadcast TV.

The J.J. Abrams-created "Fringe" will kick off with a two-hour premiere in August. Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse," which only wrapped up its pilot Friday, will be the second project and begin in January.

Calling it "remote-free TV," Fox president Peter Liguori told advertisers at its upfront that broadcast TV needed "a jolt" and a focus on the viewers -- and that "the populist network" was just the company to do it.

"We're going to have less commercials, less promotional time and less reason for viewers to use the remote," Liguori said. "We're going to have more character, more content, more value."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...fa2e8d6fa199d3 (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3ibcf6d45fc7a036df6bfa2e8d6fa199d3)

From TV Week:

Whedon Reshooting ‘Dollhouse’ Pilot
By Josef Adalian

Joss Whedon has decided to shoot a new pilot episode for his Fox drama “Dollhouse.”

In a post to the fan Web site Whedonesque.com, Mr. Whedon said that, while he’s happy with how the original pilot turned out, it wasn’t the perfect template to introduce viewers to his concept.

“I’m very proud of the ep we shot and the series is making me crazy with the excitement,” Mr. Whedon wrote. “But I tend to come at things sideways, and there were a few clarity issues for some viewers. There were also some slight issues with tone. I was in a dark, noir kind of place (where, as many of you know, I make my home), and didn’t bring the visceral pop the network had expected from the script. The network was cool about it, but not sure how to come out of the gate with the ep.”

Because of the changes, Mr. Whedon has decided not to screen scenes from the “Dollhouse” pilot later this week at Comic-Con as originally planned. He still is scheduled to meet with TV critics Tuesday afternoon on the Fox lot.

Mr. Whedon said the decision to shoot a new first episode was entirely his own and said he’s not simply being “a good soldier” by making changes.

“The network truly gets the premise (this is a whole new crew, as you know), loves the cast, is excited about the show,” he wrote. “But they’re also specific about how they want to bring people to the show and I not only respect that, I kinda have to slap my forehead that I didn’t tailor my tone and structure to the network’s needs, since that’s something I pride myself on.”

I hope he's not doing this because he's worried about a repeat of "Firefly".

I hope he's not doing this because he's worried about a repeat of "Firefly".

Oh no, of course not. Why would he be worried about that?

:p

meanwhile, those needing a wheedon fix should check out http://drhorrible.com

From TV Week:

Whedon Reshooting ‘Dollhouse’ Pilot
By Josef Adalian

Joss Whedon has decided to shoot a new pilot episode for his Fox drama “Dollhouse.”

In a post to the fan Web site Whedonesque.com, Mr. Whedon said that, while he’s happy with how the original pilot turned out, it wasn’t the perfect template to introduce viewers to his concept.

“I’m very proud of the ep we shot and the series is making me crazy with the excitement,” Mr. Whedon wrote. “But I tend to come at things sideways, and there were a few clarity issues for some viewers. There were also some slight issues with tone. I was in a dark, noir kind of place (where, as many of you know, I make my home), and didn’t bring the visceral pop the network had expected from the script. The network was cool about it, but not sure how to come out of the gate with the ep.”

Because of the changes, Mr. Whedon has decided not to screen scenes from the “Dollhouse” pilot later this week at Comic-Con as originally planned. He still is scheduled to meet with TV critics Tuesday afternoon on the Fox lot.

Mr. Whedon said the decision to shoot a new first episode was entirely his own and said he’s not simply being “a good soldier” by making changes.

“The network truly gets the premise (this is a whole new crew, as you know), loves the cast, is excited about the show,” he wrote. “But they’re also specific about how they want to bring people to the show and I not only respect that, I kinda have to slap my forehead that I didn’t tailor my tone and structure to the network’s needs, since that’s something I pride myself on.”
Man, they can write whatever puff they want to to explain it away, but it sure sounds like there's trouble in paradise.

__________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

So what is the concept, exactly? Explains Whedon: "Dollhouse is a suspense drama about a girl who can have any personality except her own." So it's part Alias and part Quantum Leap, "because Echo is literally changing who she is," he continues. "She gets into people's lives a little bit."And part Dark Angel and part Pretender. My guess is she'll somehow escape. But how they keep this from becoming clichéd week to week will be interesting.

i would love for this show to make it, but whedonites are a small community..he is a god in the UPN/WB/CW community, but by the sound of things, this show being on fox is destined to die a quick death...no comic con footage is just another nail in the coffin.

If fox can lower expectations and be happy with a cool scifi/fantasy show (like they did with terminator), it might work...i'm wondering if this will even do terminator numbers...if you guys remember, terminator premiered to 18 mill viewers and dropped like a rock (ended at around 8-9 mill if i'm not mistaken).

Off topic comments deleted.

http://www.tv.com/story/11508.html?tag=gumballs;img;0&om_act=convert&om_clk=gumballs

From TV Week

Dollhouse’ Halts Production Amid Creative Concerns
By Josef Adalian

Production has halted on the Joss Whedon drama “Dollhouse” amid indications that some executives inside Fox are deeply concerned about the creative direction of the series.

The last day of filming on “Dollhouse” was last Thursday, a spokesman for the show’s studio, 20th Century Fox TV confirmed today. The show will resume production on Sept. 25, he said.

Officially, 20th executives said the shutdown is designed to give Mr. Whedon time to focus on getting the show’s scripts in better shape. According to Zap2It.com, which first reported the shutdown, Mr. Whedon’s decision to direct two of the first three episodes of the series distracted him from focusing on the scripts.

A 20th spokesman indicated that Mr. Whedon simply wanted to make the show better, and that because production on the series is ahead of schedule, there would be no problem with the show premiering as planned in January.

“We have tremendous confidence in Joss and his team, and we wholeheartedly supported his desire to take some time to focus on upcoming scripts before resuming filming,” the 20th spokesman said. “It’s not often in television production that you have the luxury of extra time, but in this instance we did. And this is a show we all believe in and we want to give it every opportunity to succeed.”

However, some executives at the Fox network are worried that Mr. Whedon may not have his “Dollhouse” in order.

A person familiar with the thinking of some Fox executives told TelevisionWeek that there have been concerns raised inside the network about the fundamental underpinnings of the show.

Specifically, because the heroine of the show, played by Eliza Dushku, has no free will or ability to do much beyond what she’s told to do, viewers might find it hard to root for her. In addition, some executives have expressed concerns that early episodes of the series have been confusing and hard to follow.

Mr. Whedon himself confessed to such worries over “clarity” in July, when he announced he was shooting a new pilot for the series and wouldn’t be screening the original pilot at Comic-Con.

But executives who’ve read future scripts said some of those issues remain.

A Fox network spokesman dismissed as “untrue” the notion that Fox Entertainment chiefs Peter Liguori and Kevin Reilly are concerned over the future of the show.

“We believe in Joss, and we support the show,” he said. “It will be on the air midseason.”

It’s worth noting that internal debates over shows are standard operating procedure inside networks, and that different factions within a network—such as marketing or development—might disagree about a show’s potential.

“Dollhouse” is the second Fox show to stop production in as many weeks: Last week the network’s “24” went on a two-week hiatus.

Sometimes network concerns are valid and warranted... and I have heard stories of shows in the past where the network stepped in and forced changes that I ultimately believe were positive.

That said... some of those comments seem eerily familiar to what I remember reading that FOX said about Firefly... Too confusing, hard to follow, not liking some characters... frankly, I was surprised FOX would go with Whedon again after that experience and even more surprised Whedon would go with FOX.

So is this show still a go for a Feb. 13th premiere?

So is this show still a go for a Feb. 13th premiere?

I think so. Just saw a preview on Entertainment Tonight. Eliza hasn't aged well.

I think so. Just saw a preview on Entertainment Tonight. Eliza hasn't aged well.

They were running previews during Bones tonight, she looked like she has aged well to me, yowza, she looked fine in the previews. I hope this Friday SciFi night works out, I'm one of the few people I guess that enjoys unwinding on Friday nights and watching some SciFi.

That's one of the best things about the SciFi channel, seems like all their longer running series have been on Friday nights, with the exception of Eureka.

...Eliza hasn't aged well...

Yeah, send her 26 year old bod to the glue factory!

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6462/elizamc3.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elizamc3.jpg)
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/elizamc3.jpg/1/w266.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img206/elizamc3.jpg/1/)http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2813/eliza2zh6.jpg (http://img206.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eliza2zh6.jpg)
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/eliza2zh6.jpg/1/w294.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img206/eliza2zh6.jpg/1/)

Trailer http://www.fox.com/programming/shows/new/dollhouse_video.htm

in

Saw my first promo. TERRIBLE! Very confusing as to what it is about. Reminds me of Firefly promos, actually. I'm of course on board as a devout Whedon fan, but not sure it will bring in those outside of the fold. Hopefully they get better closer to debut.

Yeah, send her 26 year old bod to the glue factory!

Call me "the glue factory."

I say, she ends up soaking wet in the pilot wearing cloths that cling like Saran Wrap when drenched. ;)

I'm watching. :eek:

She's (was) on Howard Stern this morning, suggest check out the replay. Talking about the usual- height/weight, virginity, lesbianism, masturbation, dating celebs, spread in Maxim, dollhouse, wheadon... She says shes a tom-boy, ya right!

I'm going to be watching this but to be honest the "Dushku in HD" factor is the only reason. Everything I've seen and read about the premise so for has left me extremely apathetic.

it's Joss Wheedon and Olivia Williams is in it. I'm watching no matter what until they cancel it, which may be next week.

I'm going to be watching this but to be honest the "Dushku in HD" factor is the only reason. Everything I've seen and read about the premise so for has left me extremely apathetic.
Honestly, my problem is that it was announced so far ahead of actually airing. After a while, I was like, "just air the thing already!" At this point, there's been so much talk about it, there's no way it can live up to any of the positive press and the time frame as allowed too much chance to point out all the negatives.

I felt the same about Fringe - and I'm no longer watching that.

I felt the same about Fringe - and I'm no longer watching that.

That's too bad. The general consensus in the 'Fringe' thread is that this last episode was one of the best, if not the best of the series so far. The overall mystery arc was propelled forward a bit, which always make the fans of the more serialized elements happy, and there was a LOST-like thrill ride aspect to it as well. I still have high hopes for 'Fringe' if it can give us more eps like this one, and less "freak of the week" standalones. As long as they pair it up with The Big Karaoke Show they have no ratings worries, so they can be more creative with the serialized arc.

The premise of this show reminds me of the storyline for the anime Ghost in the Shell...anyone else getting this vibe?

So Eliza could be considered in the same mold as Motoko.

The sad part is the critics have already condemned the program. For that reason, I must watch. Normally if the critics hate it, I will enjoy it.

The sad part is the critics have already condemned the program. For that reason, I must watch. Normally if the critics hate it, I will enjoy it.

They really are hammering it, I'm wishing this show had started on SciFi, if Sanctuary can get renewed there is hope, I really did end up liking Sanctuary, but it certainly took it 4 or 5 episodes before it started to take off, I suspect the same with Dollhouse, but with network shows, that usually is too late.

Maybe all the negative reviews will pique some curiosity and get a few viewers just to see how bad it is, I've liked everything Whedon has been involved with, so I figure the show will be pretty good before all is said and done.

They really are hammering it, I'm wishing this show had started on SciFi,...

I think one look at that huge, intricate set they built - the Dollhouse itself - will show you why that couldn't happen. 'Sanctuary' did it all with green screen.

I think one look at that huge, intricate set they built - the Dollhouse itself - will show you why that couldn't happen. 'Sanctuary' did it all with green screen.

Of course that begs the question, did they do it because they had to or because they could?

I'm sure they could have done the show with a much cheaper budget if they had to.

Of course that begs the question, did they do it because they had to or because they could?

I'm sure they could have done the show with a much cheaper budget if they had to.
Exactly.

When a show has a big budget, it tends to make use of it, either through bigger name talent, bigger FX or better sets.

However, shows like The Shield, Monk and BSG have show that careful use of set design, known (but not necessarily big name) talent and (in the case of BSG) a sprinkling of just enough FX to sell the scene can make the show just as compelling on a lower budget.

Heck, look at the three Law and Order dramas: two on broadcast TV and one on cable, yet they all seem to have the same production value. The "C" in "Cable" doesn't necessarily mean "Compromise".

Of course that begs the question, did they do it because they had to or because they could?

I'm sure they could have done the show with a much cheaper budget if they had to.

Well, I think the answer to that question is "both". Whedon's doing a sci-fi show for broadcast TV and the production values have to reflect that. The sets they built for 'Firefly' were uber-spectacular (and spectacularly expensive) and arguably necessary since the Serenity was essentially a character as well. Same with the Dollhouse. It has to look spectacular and they're going to be spending a lot of time there. If the show's successful, there will be plenty of time to amortise those costs. I appreciate FOX (gee, don't get to write that very often) for taking the risk.

Of course they could have done it cheaper (and would have if the show had been done for a cablenet). But would we have wanted them to?

Of course they could have done it cheaper (and would have if the show had been done for a cablenet). But would we have wanted them to?

Yes I would want it cheaper if the story is there. The most expensive shows get cut first if the numbers slip. That was one of the reasons they canceled Las Vegas. The sets were too expensive and took up a lot of space.

I have tried to stay as far way from spoilers, plot summaries, cast announcements and other revealing information about Dollhouse as much as I can (like the rest of this thread that I haven't read)...can't wait for tonight...can't wait to see what Joss has created this time...

I have tried to stay as far way from spoilers, plot summaries, cast announcements and other revealing information about Dollhouse as much as I can (like the rest of this thread that I haven't read)...can't wait for tonight...can't wait to see what Joss has created this time...

Oh, you're gonna love the climatic, mind blowing scene where...



...just kidding...

Yes I would want it cheaper if the story is there. The most expensive shows get cut first if the numbers slip.

If the story is there, the story is there, and the people that appreciate it will stick around even if the production values are a touch low. BUT there are a lot of people that want the shiny (as Joss might say) and will tune out if Eliza isn't looking great kicking ass all over an amazing set. First impressions, blah blah blah...if the show looks cheap it won't hold a mainstream audience and then it'll be canceled no matter how good the story is.

Groucho makes a solid point that the Dollhouse will almost be a character in and of itself (like Serenity). Gotta put the money into it. Also, having a cool set they can build once and use extensively cuts down on the need for auxiliary one-off sets that they'd need for variety if the 'house was lame.

Anyway, I'm really jazzed for this premier since I've really liked all of Whedon's work (although I never got into Angel). I'm not counting on it lasting more than a season or two, but it should be a fun ride.

For Immediate Release:
Associated Net Press, FEB 2009: New Fox Comedy Fridays: - The hijinks ensue when 3 20'something rejects from an MTV dating program all decide to give up wearing shoes! When they are offered a job by some nerdy date nite chapparones, they jump at the chance, since it comes with free room and board in a "Beauty & the Geek" style Mansion, complete with a Runway for future challenges!
Although the job requires talents far beyond what their "chicken of the sea" minds & toothpick arms are capable of, they're willing to fake it! Get in on the laughs, tonight on Fox!"

http://origin.aintitcool.com/images2007/dollhouse.jpg

Brutal.

Wow... that is pretty nasty!
Thanks AP- just set my season pass for Dollhouse on the TiVo :D

For Immediate Release:
Associated Net Press, FEB 2009: New Fox Comedy Fridays: - The hijinks ensue when 3 20'something rejects from an MTV dating program all decide to give up wearing shoes! When they are offered a job by some nerdy date nite chapparones, they jump at the chance, since it comes with free room and board in a "Beauty & the Geek" style Mansion, complete with a Runway for future challenges!
Although the job requires talents far beyond what their "chicken of the sea" minds & toothpick arms are capable of, they're willing to fake it! Get in on the laughs, tonight on Fox!"

http://origin.aintitcool.com/images2007/dollhouse.jpg

That was My attempt at humor :) .. not an actual press release, for those Chicken of the sea -ers that didn't quite realize that!! :) :)

I don't care if E.D. has a Chicken of the Sea mind and toothpick arms - I wouldn't want her for those things, anyway.

it's Joss Wheedon and Olivia Williams is in it. I'm watching no matter what until they cancel it, which may be next week.That's how I feel about Amy Acker...She's one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen (even with the facial scars...)

That's how I feel about Amy Acker...She's one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen (even with the facial scars...)

Y'know, somehow I haven't seen her in any of the promotional shots so far, I'm interested to see what she looks like with the scars. You'd think she'd eventually get tired of working with Joss, he can't seem to let her look normal. :) I mean, she was hot as Illyria (sp?) in the last half of Angel season 5, but the makeup, hair and outfit must have been a pain.

Dammit....just realized this wasn't recording. Forgot to bump it up on my priority list and had 2 other conflicts. CURSES!

I think it'll show up on Hulu though.

Turned this off after 20 minutes.. Too confusing and too much jumping all over the place . Pretty people but sucky plot and wasn't impressed .

Turned this off after 20 minutes.. Too confusing and too much jumping all over the place . Pretty people but sucky plot and wasn't impressed .

Yeah I was zoning out. Seemed like a bad remake of Alias.

Felt a bit like the now-defunct "My Own Worst Enemy", but only better. Just a little.

I liked it.

I thought it was an interesting first choice for Eliza's character. You expect an action hero, but they go for the exact opposite. And I didn't think she had sufficient range to pull off that character, but she did a good job.

Since Amy Acker was listed as a guest star, I hope she stays around long enough to explain the scars.

Oh, and I like shows that are a little confusing. It means I actually have to fire up a few brain cells to extrapolate what is really going on. Fun!

Duane

Well, I thought it started off terrible, but it wasn't so bad the last 30 or 40 minutes, I'll be hanging in for the foreseeable future, it wasn't the travesty the critics made it out to be, at least not to me it wasn't.

My local station went to SD for about two minutes right after the show started, and I was peeved, it was one of those DTV announcement(but it took a minute before the message started), which seems kind of silly on the HD feed, if I didn't have digital I couldn't be watching it anyway.

It wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible, I thought Dushku pulled off her different personas pretty well, the worst one was the opener.

Fox TV’s Gamble: Fewer Ads in a Break, but Costing More

From The New York Times By BRIAN STELTER

Eight minutes into “Fringe” on Tuesday, right after a man suffocated on a city street, the hour’s first commercial was prefaced by a reminder that the drama would “return in 60 seconds.”

Sure enough, after ads for Listerine and the BlackBerry Curve, the paranormal investigations resumed on Fox.

“Fringe,” which had its premiere in September, was the first test of Fox’s fewer-commercials strategy, which the network calls “Remote-Free TV.” Each episode of “Fringe” includes about 10 minutes of commercials, four to six minutes fewer than the typical hourlong show.

Fox has charged movie studios, wireless companies and retailers a premium price for commercials on the program to partly compensate Fox for a lighter commercial load.

On Friday, the format will be extended to a second Fox drama, “Dollhouse,” which stars Eliza Dushku as a secret agent who becomes aware that her memory has been repeatedly erased.

But has the commercial format worked? Fox says the shorter commercial breaks keep viewers more engaged and improve brand recall for advertisers. Viewers are also less likely to change the channel or fast-forward past the ads — but not to the degree that Fox would have liked. Perhaps more important, the network does not appear to be recouping all the costs of the experiment. It is unclear whether Remote-Free TV will be back next season.

For decades, programmers have shown fondness for fewer commercial interruptions, especially for specials or other event-style shows. Many of these have had a single sponsor. The network evening newscasts have had occasional single-sponsor days and weeks, with one long commercial halfway through the half-hour program.

The Fox format is different. It includes several advertisers in each hour but limits the total number of commercials. When Fox pitched the strategy to advertisers last May, Peter Liguori, the Fox entertainment chairman, said that fewer commercials would present fewer reasons for viewers to “to grab the remote and change the channel.” Mr. Liguori said the format could potentially “redefine the viewing experience.”

Some advertisers have lauded Fox for taking a step toward reducing commercial clutter. But others have expressed skepticism that companies experience sufficient benefits in exchange for the premium price that is being charged.

Fox has received 40 to 50 percent premiums for the advertising sold for “Fringe,” according to executives and media buyers. Advertising Age, in its annual survey of TV ad pricing, found last fall that an average 30-second commercial on “Fringe” cost $343,000, making it the most expensive show on Tuesdays by far, even surpassing its highly rated fall lead-in, “House.”

Jon Nesvig, the president of sales for Fox Broadcasting, said last week that the format has worked “reasonably well” for “Fringe.”

It is commonly accepted, he said, that the first position in a commercial pod is the most effective one for advertisers. The second most effective position is the last commercial before the program resumes. Presumably viewers who are changing the channel, fast-forwarding the digital video recorder or taking a break are exposed to the bookends of the commercial break.

By shortening the commercial breaks, “you basically have all first and last positions and you have lower clutter,” Mr. Nesvig said. “With less clutter, there’s better recall, and that’s what part of the objective is.”

He said the commercial orders for “Fringe” have been “full all along,” owing in part to the support of movie companies like Sony Pictures, Warner Brothers and Universal. Other advertisers have included American Express, Apple, Verizon Wireless and Wal-Mart.

Last fall Nielsen IAG, an ad research company, analyzed the effect of fewer commercials and found that brand recall was 22 percent higher for “Fringe” than for “prime time’s most involving dramas.”

Shorter breaks are also resulting in somewhat less skipping of commercials, according to Nielsen.

“It’s better” than other shows, Mr. Nesvig said, “but it hasn’t been as great as we were hoping.”

For Fox to break even on the format, the premium pricing for the ads has to outweigh the revenue that is lost by showing fewer commercials. Asked whether that was happening, Mr. Nesvig said “the jury is still out on the economics.”

Regardless, Mr. Nesvig calls the changes to the commercial load on “Fringe” successful.

“Even if it wasn’t an absolutely positive financial success, it was definitely a worthwhile experiment and something that I am glad we have attempted and will continue to work on,” he said.

“Dollhouse” will have its premiere in the Friday 9 p.m. time slot, generally not one of the most popular times of the week for viewers or advertisers. Mr. Nesvig said that Fox is “surprisingly well-stocked” Monday through Thursday this spring, giving the network an opportunity to “extend that beachhead into Friday night.” And he hopes the Remote-Free TV format will act as a hook, creating appointment viewing on a night that consumers are more likely to go out with friends or see a movie.

“Dollhouse” may be a somewhat harder sell to advertisers, in part because of the Friday night slot. “We’ll still have some movie companies on Friday night,” but not nearly as many as on Tuesday, Mr. Nesvig said.

In describing the pricing for the premium spots, he compared the dramas to the Super Bowl. “The Super Bowl is obviously not hard to sell in and of itself,” he said. “It’s hard to sell at $3 million a unit.” (NBC announced it had sold the last 30-second positions for this month’s game one day before kickoff.) Similarly, spots would sell more swiftly “if we went out and sold ‘Fringe’ for a 10 or 15 percent premium,” he said.

Mr. Nesvig suggested that Fox would be in a better position to sell premium ad time in the coming upfront advertising season. The Remote-Free TV plan was presented to media buyers last May without much preparation, he said. Regardless of whether the format returns next season, Fox executives say the experiments with the number of commercials shown in its programs will continue.

“There will be ongoing attempts to keep commercial viewing as high as possible,” Mr. Nesvig said, adding, “It behooves all of us to keep changing the model.”

Turned this off after 20 minutes.. Too confusing and too much jumping all over the place . Pretty people but sucky plot and wasn't impressed .

Give it 20 minutes of the first episode to come to a final conclusion?

WOW!

Talk about needing instant gratification!

Oh, and I like shows that are a little confusing. It means I actually have to fire up a few brain cells to extrapolate what is really going on. Fun!

Duane

My thoughts exactly. Way too much instant gratification & mind numbing tv out there. No wonder critics & general public get 'confused', they shut their brains off on reflex when the blue light comes on.

I enjoyed it. Looking forward to next week.

I thought it was a decent start. I haven't read, nor do I usually care much, about what the critics think. I think the premise is interesting, and I like the BSG FBI agent. We'll see if the execution of the premise carries forward. Hopefully there will be a fairly heavy serialized approach taken. I doubt that a bunch of stand-alone episodes would hold interest for long. In any case, I definitely enjoyed the pilot. I'll keep watching.

I am diggin' my new Sci-Fi Friday, by the way: Terminator, Dollhouse, BSG. Throw in FNL and Friday is getting to be my favorite TV night :)

Thought it was okay, although not much of a strong hook for me for a premiere. Got better as it went along. Will give it at least two more episodes to get things established.

It definitely was slow and confusing at first, but it really did pick up and start coming together by the end. I was really unsure about it in the beginning, but before it was over I was enjoying it. I'll definitely stick with it for a while.

But did anyone think the audio was atrocious? Way too low, I had to crank the volume to a record high. And I had just been thinking Terminator was doing much better on that issue tonight.

Well I walked into it knowing nearly zero about what this show was about, simply because I was curious. I was definitely confused most of the way through the episode, but by the end I could definitely see the bits and pieces of a season-long plot the writers are putting together. They dropped hints about what to expect, so hopefully they can deliver. I've got it set to record, so we'll see what the rest of the season has in store for us. Plus, Eliza Dushku is easy on the eyes, and the producers know it, too ;)

Well, I thought it started off terrible, but it wasn't so bad the last 30 or 40 minutes, I'll be hanging in for the foreseeable future, it wasn't the travesty the critics made it out to be, at least not to me it wasn't.

My local station went to SD for about two minutes right after the show started, and I was peeved, it was one of those DTV announcement(but it took a minute before the message started), which seems kind of silly on the HD feed, if I didn't have digital I couldn't be watching it anyway.

It wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible, I thought Dushku pulled off her different personas pretty well, the worst one was the opener.

Interesting, I thought her first character was the most believable while the rest of them I couldn't figure out if she was suppose to appear like she was acting, or just doing a bad job of acting the part. I came away from it thinking Dushku is not a very good actress at all.

I'll definitely be sticking around though to see how it develops.

I enjoyed it and I'm in until it's cancelled...


next week.
:)

I enjoyed it! Eliza can pull this off based on what I've seen here, I'm pretty sure. Joss is no dummy. If he see's genius in his muse, then I'm at least going to see if he's acting on professional instinct or a more primitive compulsion. The whole show clearly hinges on her. They need to establish her comrades-in-arms and make them both compelling and the focus of stand-alone episodes or the premise will quickly wear thin. While I think Eliza can carry the majority of the heavy plotline lifting, she's going to need some help. I'll be here regardless, sink or swim - very impressive start.

Hopefully there will be a fairly heavy serialized approach taken. I doubt that a bunch of stand-alone episodes would hold interest for long.

Look at the later seasons of Buffy and pretty much all but the first season of Angel, then top that off with Joss stating that he was influenced by BSG when making this series and I believe you have nothing to worry about. Angel especially was HEAVILY serialized in seasons 3 and 4 and the last half of season 5. I see this show shaping up like Veronica Mars, in that I think every week we will get a new standalone "engagement", but we will also get juicy mythology aspects thrown in, as well, mostly through the story of Paul Ballard.

I enjoyed it and I'm in until it's cancelled...


next week.
:)

The sad truth :(. Maybe FOX's comment of changing the model was a hint. Wasn't NBC trying to spice up Friday as well?

I enjoyed it and I'm in until it's cancelled...


next week.
:)

+1. I bet Fox wasn't happy to hear about My Own Worst Enemy while Dollhouse was under development. I wonder if NBC swiped the idea and rushed it out in the fall to steal some thunder. It is pretty much the exact same premise, right down to the geeky young guy in charge of imprinting. I gave MOWE 3 or 4 episodes before I decided I didn't like it...I can see anyone who did like it not really being interested in getting attached to Dollhouse because they don't want to go through the cancelation pains again.

Anyway, the pilot wasn't amazing and it wasn't bad. A little derivative of Dark Angel maybe. I'm surprised to see that the show has such a heavy focus on Echo and not the rest of the cast, at least so far. Whedon is usually all about the ensemble. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out, assuming we get more than a half dozen episodes.

The gratuitous dancing scene in the beginning was completely silly, but man that little white dress was short. :eek: :D

I enjoyed it, it was fun. It will be interesting to see if it lasts. I too watched a few episodes of My own worst enemy, but Christian Slater just didn't do it for me. If the cast would have been better I might have stuck with it.

I thought it was a generally interesting concept (albeit, not exactly novel) that is in desperate need of some serious tweaking. I was never a Buffy fan, so know little about Dishku, but if they can maintain the states of various undress for her (although her attempts at tugging up the white mini got a little ridiculous at times) and the other female imprints, I will generously consider continued watching. Maybe they should try an American Idol spin, and offer us several diferent outfits in advance of airing the episode so we can vote and determine how we would like to see her. I'm casting my vote in advance for a baby-doll nightie. ;)

_____________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

The gratuitous dancing scene in the beginning was completely silly, but man that little white dress was short. :eek: :DIt was a bit silly, but as keenan stated above, that particular character was her most realistic personna. However, when she left the guy in that club, her happy face suddenly drooped(?). That's when I thought, "is this going to be like 'My Own Worst Enemy'?" Unsure if that was intentional or bad acting....

Not must-see for me yet. I'll give it one more shot.

Similar to My On Worst Enemy and featuring a guy from Journeyman - not good signs.;)

Not must-see for me yet. I'll give it one more shot.

Similar to My On Worst Enemy and featuring a guy from Journeyman - not good signs.;)

Of course...that's why that guy looked so familiar! I was having trouble placing him. Thanks.....saved me an IMDB lookup this morning.

As for Dollhouse I was actually expecting something much worse based on some early reviews I had read. I really wasn't that bad. Of course, calling it "not that bad" is hardly a glowing endorsement....but I haven't deleted the Series Link. I saw enough to give it a chance to develop. Hopefully Fox will too.

I enjoyed it quite a bit. Some of that is Whedon fanism as the pilot had some serious problems, but I think I can see the blossoming of a cool show. Wow, that first scene was TOUGH! Now I want to know what the original first pilot was. Reminds me of Firefly. The original pilot had heart and soul, the "Bank Job" new pilot was just flash. Hopefully Dollhouse is the same situation and the rest of the episodes differ thematically from the reshot pilot.

I think they should have shown more successful "engagements" before having the botched kidnapping. I guess the "date" was successful, but it had so little set-up it made a big leap from the dolls being essentially a super-escort service to putting a girls life in their hands.

Still, I know most of my questions will get addressed in the first few eps as there seems to be little BSG or Lost style extended mysteries. Hopefully the ensemble cast comes through as that is where I think Whedon really shines.

Oh yeah, Amy Acker was SMOKING, scars and all! Why is she not working more?

The first show was good enough for me to watch next week. I thought the show was pretty good and yes, that skirt was super short.:D

Too early to tell but I think I'm going to like this one. I lost insterest in My Own Worst Enemy after a couple weeks because it annoyed me somehow. Not sure why. But I still think Dollhouse has potential.

- Tom

I'll keep watching, but I'd be surprised if any non-genre fans stuck with it after that opening.

The first 10 ~ 15 mins seemed like a mess to me.

If this is the result of requested reshoots and refocusing by Fox I'm curious to see what Joss had done originally.

horrible ratings for this and terminator..as expected. Not sure if it's worth investing the time.

But did anyone think the audio was atrocious? Way too low, I had to crank the volume to a record high. And I had just been thinking Terminator was doing much better on that issue tonight.

Agree on the audio - could barely hear the opening dialogue - had to turn in way up, then they cut to the motorcycle race and almost blew out my windows!

The show was OK - slow at first, but picked up as it went on.

I enjoyed it and I'm in until it's cancelled...


next week.
I guess it comes down to contractual issues, how much FOX is willing to pay for eyeballs, and how much they're willing to test this "remote free" viewing concept for limited commercials.

The premiere's ratings (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/02/14/friday-ratings-how-did-dollhouse-and-terminator/12837) were worse than House reruns a year ago (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/02/14/friday-ratings-how-did-dollhouse-and-terminator/12837) but better than America's Most Wanted last week (http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/02/07/friday-ratings-ghost-whisperer-towers-above-the-competition/12370). A repeat of Lie To Me two weeks prior did better than the premiere.

So, I can definitely see Fox at least airing the first half of the season to get a better idea of how well this ad format works. If they haven't put in a full season's order, I can see the second half of the first season not being picked up. If numbers don't improve, I can see it not being renewed for a second season. If it's as expensive as we think and ad revenue isn't anywhere as good as Fringe's (the other show with this same ad format), we might see it canceled much earlier. Then again, if they were willing to renew T:TSCC who knows what they'll do.

It's a shame it's not pulling in better numbers because it's a show I'd be willing to watch, if only for its eye candy.

Surprise surprise, a show at the start of a 3 day weekend didn't get good ratings...what was everyone expecting? Idol like numbers? Ridiculous...

As some have said, I was disturbed by the overly negative reviews that were coming out from the dedia but I liked it. The similarities to My Own Worst Enemy are not good though as that show was a major failure in terms of story-telling. I have hundreds of miles more faith in Whedon than I do in the creators of that show. Also even the Firefly pilot wasn't exactly perfect...its a pilot...you can't expect perfection.

Regardless, Whedon + Minear + Dushku + Penikett + Acker + Sheppard = I'm in until cancellation...(and then I'll claim to never watch another new Fox show)


Also, I <3ed the Eddy James Olmos reference...obviously BSG has affected Whedon...and I think this is a very good thing...

Yeah, will give it a few more weeks (if it lasts that long). I never expect too much from a pilot, so figuring there will be some tweaks along the way. But for one episode at least, it was nothing more than "My Own Worst Enemy" with a much hotter lead. I was one of the few enjoying MOWE though and thought it was really staring to hit its stride when it flatlined. Oh and I don't think pulling from BSG is a good thing at all considering that for all the critical love it gets, about 20 people watch. (Sorry BSG geeks, but it's true.) I know, I know, "People are stupid and watch stupid stuff," but network TV is ratings driven so "Dollhouse" needs ratings to continue.

The gratuitous dancing scene in the beginning was completely silly, but man that little white dress was short. :eek: :D

The better to show off those (IMO) awesome legs. :p

I expected the bald kidnapper guy to blow her away at the dock. He was also at the club, wasn't he? Might need to start recordificating this one & watch over.

Penikett's (Helo?) boxing scenes had the "overblown-whites" look that BSG often uses.

I have a few somewhat unrelated observations:

(1) I agree that Dollhouse is off to a good start, high production values and good performances add a lot.
(2) As has already been pointed out by others, I noticed that Fox’s 5.1 audio seemed to have been recorded at a low level; nevertheless, when I cranked in a suitable number of extra dB it sounded very good; the PQ was excellent, too.
(3) I thought that any resemblance to My Own Worst Enemy was tangential, at best; Eliza Dushku is exponentially better here than Christian Slater was in Worst Enemy, in fact, he was his own worst enemy.

On balance, I liked the first episode a lot and think the series shows a lot of promise.

Caveat: I am a Joss Whedon fan from way back. :)

I'll have to re-watch the show tonight as I fell asleep 15 minutes in- 1 too many cocktails during TSCC. I really want to like it but those first 15 minutes were not too strong.

Similar to My On Worst Enemy and featuring a guy from Journeyman - not good signs.;)

And Echo reminds me of Jaime Somers.

Just getting around to watching it now. During the discussion of Echo's persona's glasses/eyesight, the set really looks like a slightly remodeled Wolfram & Hart when Angel was working there.

Watched about ten minutes, turned over to Flashpoint (watchable enough show, if not the greatest).

'Dollhouse' debut gets decent ratings

Feb 14, 2009, 12:54 PM | by Lynette Rice

Categories: TV Biz

More than a fair share of Joss Whedon fans tuned in Friday to see the premiere of Fox's Dollhouse. The mythological drama starring Eliza Dushku attracted 4.7 million viewers -- a pretty decent jump over the eyeball levels for The Sarah Connor Chronicles at 8 p.m. (which lured a mere 3.7 million), according to fast national ratings. In fact, Dollhouse helped Fox double its viewership levels among women versus Chronicles and helped the net finish in second place among adults 18-34 and in first place across key male demos for the night.

So what does this mean for Dollhouse's long-term prospects? Although 4.7 million isn't that great -- Fox typically averages 5.5 million on Fridays -- the Whedon drama has a better chance of making it over the long haul if it stays put on the night. In fact, network insiders have long cautioned that if the series were scheduled earlier in the week and ended up attracting these kind of (low) viewership levels, it would have been axed by its second or third airing. So relax, Whedonites -- Dushku and Co. appear safe for now.

Chronicles will remain as Dollhouse's lead-in until Fox runs out of episodes; later, the Terminator franchise will be replaced by Prison Break for its final six episodes.

http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/02/dollhouse-attra.html

I found the audio level was too low but the mix was good. I had to crank the volume on my receiver, so when commercials kicked in it almost blew out my windows. The same thing happens consistently during TSCC too, and maybe FOX other shows.

I really like the "Dollhouse will be back in 60/90 seconds" notice. My DVR has a 30 second skip button so I know how exactly many times I need to press it. :D

I really like the "Dollhouse will be back in 60/90 seconds" notice. My DVR has a 30 second skip button so I know how exactly many times I need to press it. :D

Yep, helped me too.

I also liked the show. I will keep watching for now. It has potential.

I really like the "Dollhouse will be back in 60/90 seconds" notice. My DVR has a 30 second skip button so I know how exactly many times I need to press it. :D

We aren't supposed to mention that. Fewer commercials, higher cost per commercial - if they found out that the view rate was lower, not higher - something tells me that the practice will die out. :eek:

I really like the "Dollhouse will be back in 60/90 seconds" notice. My DVR has a 30 second skip button so I know how exactly many times I need to press it. :D
I have a 30 second skip feature on my DVR, a TiVo Series3, too, so I LOVED knowing in advance how long a commercial interruption would be. I hope this experiment works out for Fox because I have found it to be very handy.

We aren't supposed to mention that. Fewer commercials, higher cost per commercial - if they found out that the view rate was lower, not higher - something tells me that the practice will die out. :eek:
They're actually aware of that. But a lot of the time you'll catch the first couple of seconds of the first commercial or the last couple of the last. I suspect there are also some people lazy enough to not bother skipping over just two commercials. Never underestimate the laziness of people.

I found the audio level was too low but the mix was good. I had to crank the volume on my receiver, so when commercials kicked in it almost blew out my windows. The same thing happens consistently during TSCC too, and maybe FOX other shows.

I really like the "Dollhouse will be back in 60/90 seconds" notice. My DVR has a 30 second skip button so I know how exactly many times I need to press it. :D

from my experience in the past, prison break and TSCC are mixed the same way as Dollhouse..the dialogue is just way too low. It's been this way for at least 2 seasons now, and I don't know why they can't fix it. And then the commercials come on, and it just starts blaring.

The advertisers aren't aware. The only reason they pay more is because of the "theory" that people won't skip.

As far as the 10 or 15 seconds you catch at the beginning and end of the commercial breaks - that's exactly what this new format eliminates. Anyone with a 30 second skip sees no "slop" now.

The advertisers aren't aware. The only reason they pay more is because of the "theory" that people won't skip.

As far as the 10 or 15 seconds you catch at the beginning and end of the commercial breaks - that's exactly what this new format eliminates. Anyone with a 30 second skip sees no "slop" now.

It's handy, but does it really matter, most all of us skip ahead, whether it's 60 seconds, 90 seconds or 3 to 5 minutes, we find the start and we are trying to avoid the commercials, the only thing we are looking for is the start, if I'm zipping through I'll find the show and skip back until I find the start, I doubt any of us catch more than 10 to 15 seconds of any commercial and I have no idea what they are. The only thing I might actually stop and watch is if I catch a preview of a new show or previews of an upcoming show.

A lot of people don't like it, but the one type of commercial that doesn't bother me are the blatant product ads in the middle of the show, not the popups, but I don't know why they don't just have various products in the scenes, kind of like Terminator:TSCC did with the Dodge trucks, Eureka used the deodorant as part of a plot once, I can easily live with that, it's in a more natural setting and what difference would it make if they mentioned it during the show, most of us refer to products in everyday life, don't understand why it would actually detract from a show, if they throw in a few lines about using such and such product as long it is in the flow, I don't see the harm.

NBC managed to keep up their upfront ad revenue by getting very aggressive with product placement. You see it in almost all NBC/U programming.

Agree, about the skipping. My point was even catching 6 seconds of an ad (or normally a local promo) because of unknown/odd duration commercial breaks is greater ad viewership than when they announce a 60 or 90 second commercial break. The theory that fewer ads can justify a premium ad cost for advertisers is the opposite of reality.

NBC managed to keep up their upfront ad revenue by getting very aggressive with product placement. You see it in almost all NBC/U programming.

Agree, about the skipping. My point was even catching 6 seconds of an ad (or normally a local promo) because of unknown/odd duration commercial breaks is greater ad viewership than when they announce a 60 or 90 second commercial break. The theory that fewer ads can justify a premium ad cost for advertisers is the opposite of reality.
My TiVo backspaces in 8 second increments so that's the maximum amount of a commercial I will have to see before a program restarts. Even the fragments of commercials I have to watch after backspacing to a point right before the program resumes have no effect on me. Because the audio levels of commercials are often WAY higher than those of the program I am watching, I have trained myself to always mute the audio when those few seconds of a last commercial or promo are playing out. It works like a charm

But that's still more exposure than when you know it is exactly 3 skips forward. There's no need to back up at all.

NBC managed to keep up their upfront ad revenue by getting very aggressive with product placement. You see it in almost all NBC/U programming.

The McFlurry add pervading this week's entire 30 Rock was an example of NBC doing it right. It was pretty blatant, but also very funny. Product placement is easier to work into a comedy, I think, just because it is more detrimental to a drama for the viewer to be distracted or pulled out of the experience. Although I didn't mind the Dodge stuff in TSCC when they were doing that.

Agree, about the skipping. My point was even catching 6 seconds of an ad (or normally a local promo) because of unknown/odd duration commercial breaks is greater ad viewership than when they announce a 60 or 90 second commercial break. The theory that fewer ads can justify a premium ad cost for advertisers is the opposite of reality.

I'm much more likely to watch Dollhouse live if they keep up that advertising model. The reason I hate watching shows live is because 3+ minute ad breaks completely destroy any sense of engagement that I have with the plot. I love Hulu and watch all the adds because a 30 second break isn't long enough to start doing something else.

The fact that the standard running time for an "hour" long show is 42 minutes has contributed greatly to the desire for folks like me to DVR and watch later, skipping all commercials. If it was 48 or 50 minutes I'd watch a lot more live TV. (6-8 minutes difference doesn't sound like much, but that's 10-15% more content, and less distraction, in an hour.)

But that's still more exposure than when you know it is exactly 3 skips forward. There's no need to back up at all.

Very true. There were a few times when, due to the bumper, I wasn't quite to the end of commercial break after the 30-second skips. Usually that causes me to skip forward one more time, and then I have to backtrack six seconds at a time. I didn't have to do that with Dollhouse.

This might be a first-rule-of-fight-club kinda thing, but like I said, I'd be much more likely to watch it live if they kept this up for future episodes. I wasn't playing close enough attention to the previews to know it would be the presentation format for the premier.

One more thought about the low audio level: Maybe that was the SUPERSOUND promised in the 70s style promos. :rolleyes:

We aren't supposed to mention that. Fewer commercials, higher cost per commercial - if they found out that the view rate was lower, not higher - something tells me that the practice will die out. :eek:
I honestly don't think having shorter breaks with a known duration is to keep DVR users from skipping the breaks. I think the idea is to keep those that watch the show live from leaving the room during them. You're less likely to run to the bathroom if you know you've only got a minute.

DVR users that skip commercials will do it no matter what. The only way to combat it would be to make every break less than 30 seconds. It almost becomes easier to just let it ride.

I think the real key is for ad companies to make commercials that are interesting or fun to watch. For example, as I skip ahead, if I see one of those "Mac vs. PC" ads. I'll always jump back to take a look if it's a new one or one I really liked. On the other hand, generic ads for cars, household cleaners and those for medicines and personal care products I avoid. They're all either boring or are annoyingly descriptive in their pitch.

Maybe the advertisers need to think of every ad as a potential Super Bowl ad instead of laying it up the rest of the year.

Not every DVR has a 30 second skip button. None of the leased cable boxes do, I don't believe. It may just be TiVO and one or both of the satellite DVR's that still have them. I created one using a universal remote that allows programmed delays, but I found I was just using the FF button most of the time. Many people do the same thing and still see the start of one ad going out of the break and the end of the last one coming back in. It's the middle ones they usually miss completely. So, by taking out the middle run of commercials, they may be trying to acknowledge that, along with the other potential benefits others have mentioned.

Not every DVR has a 30 second skip button. None of the leased cable boxes do, I don't believe....

The provided Comcast dual HD-DVR's can be user programed to various skip and rewind intervals. Many, like myself, use 30 seconds.

But that's still more exposure than when you know it is exactly 3 skips forward. There's no need to back up at all.
Indeed, that's why I like knowing in advance that a commercial interruption will be only 60 or 90 seconds long. I was talking, though, about the more common situation where you don't know in advance how long a set of commercials will last. In that case my solution works well, although not as well as knowing in advance that a set of commercials will last exactly 60 or 90 seconds.

I enjoyed the pilot episode of Dollhouse. I'm laughing at the complaints that it "started slowly" -- a high-concept plot needs a teeny bit of exposition, or heads will really spin! Besides, other complaints included that it's "confusing." Pay attention and be rewarded...I like it!

Some good Whedon dialog thrown in occasionally: "We said no strings." "We also said no ropes, and look how long that lasted..."

I enjoyed the pilot episode of Dollhouse. I'm laughing at the complaints that it "started slowly" -- a high-concept plot needs a teeny bit of exposition, or heads will really spin! Besides, other complaints included that it's "confusing." Pay attention and be rewarded...I like it!

Some good Whedon dialog thrown in occasionally: "We said no strings." "We also said no ropes, and look how long that lasted..."

The problem is that the critics tried to bury this show before it even aired, and then with a slower start, doesn't bode well for the future, I have no doubt it will continue to get better, but the damage may have already been done, the ones that checked it out in spite of the reviews may have left after the slow start and never got to the point where it got much more interesting in the last half hour.

I don't begrudge Whedon, but in the interest of the show and keeping it around, I think he might have served us all a bit better with a better start out of the chute. The Whedon fans will be there, but if you want to grab some new ones, you better grab 'em quick. Of course I have no idea how to start off better, but I do know, even as a Whedon fan I was really drifting in and out in the first 20 minutes or so.

Maybe it will all work out and Fox will live with the lower numbers, but who knows.

The advertisers aren't aware. The only reason they pay more is because of the "theory" that people won't skip.

As far as the 10 or 15 seconds you catch at the beginning and end of the commercial breaks - that's exactly what this new format eliminates. Anyone with a 30 second skip sees no "slop" now.
Funny, that's what not Fox is telling the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/business/media/13adco.html?_r=1&ref=media). Unless of course they're only telling the media but somehow hoping that advertisers don't hear about it. It was just Fox's president of sales that was quoted as, "(i)t is commonly accepted, he said, that the first position in a commercial pod is the most effective one for advertisers. The second most effective position is the last commercial before the program resumes. Presumably viewers who are changing the channel, fast-forwarding the digital video recorder or taking a break are exposed to the bookends of the commercial break."

Finally, got to view the recording since Fri. Awww, they're trying to pull on my heartstrings to feel sorry that this beautiful young girl is being denied a real personal life, and is trapped in this project where she is "used" like a machine to achieve task after task. She's beginning to remember, and naturally she is going to want "out". A part of me expects Gabriel Byrne to pop into scene and dauntingly shout down, "Don't you get it? There is no Out!" (This is a reference to a 1990's movie called "Point of No Return" {which is also an adaption of La Femme Nikita}, if that didn't make sense.)

I don't know where they will take this show, but undoubtedly it is competing against many similar variations on the theme that have come and gone.

I'd have like to have seen the original concept as Joss had envisioned it. It felt like there was some tinkering done in the final product. The opening felt tacked on. Part of me felt like if we knew something about the "Donor" of the memories we might feel more connected to the character they become.

Apparently the "donors" are dead and the knowledge and memories are culled from their brains at death. I'd like to see that explored a bit. At least with Buffy and Angel we started from the beginning, I felt like I was thrown in the middle of this show. I'm sure that was his intention but I'd like just a but more back story to feel connected.

I'd have like to have seen the original concept as Joss had envisioned it. It felt like there was some tinkering done in the final product. The opening felt tacked on. Part of me felt like if we knew something about the "Donor" of the memories we might feel more connected to the character they become.

Apparently the "donors" are dead and the knowledge and memories are culled from their brains at death. I'd like to see that explored a bit. At least with Buffy and Angel we started from the beginning, I felt like I was thrown in the middle of this show. I'm sure that was his intention but I'd like just a but more back story to feel connected.

If you felt like you were just thrown into the show, then you probably wouldn't have liked the original pilot. The new pilot was written because the original didn't sufficiently introduce the premise and was too confusing. Fortunately, we'll still get to see the original pilot, and then we can all armchair-quarterback the decision. It is now the series' second episode and will be on Friday night.

Joss blogged about the decision to do a new pilot back in July (http://whedonesque.com/comments/17005). Supposedly he agreed with some of the network's concerns about his original pilot and it was his decision to make a new one.

As for wanting to feel a stronger connection to the donors, I would imagine that will be explored assuming we get enough episodes. Supposedly Joss has 5 seasons the main story arc worked out. Maybe they'll make it in comic book form, ala Buffy Season 8, if the show doesn't last.

For those who were fading during the opening scenes: Did you not appreciate the eye-candy, at least? Mercy! Olivia looking super-sweet (if mysteriously menacing), and Eliza wearing that white ultra-mini dress... The exposition and introduction of the premise were necessary hurdles to cross before delving into the action, but at least Whedon filled those opening moments with such sights that should have kept your eyes wide open...

My totally unbiased review as a fan of previous Joss Whendon work:

It was as if a dog ate every bad cliche on TV and barfed it back on to film.

Because I'm a slow learner and a sucker for punishment I'll give it another episode or two, but at this point I have little hope left.

For those who were fading during the opening scenes: Did you not appreciate the eye-candy, at least? Mercy! Olivia looking super-sweet (if mysteriously menacing), and Eliza wearing that white ultra-mini dress... The exposition and introduction of the premise were necessary hurdles to cross before delving into the action, but at least Whedon filled those opening moments with such sights that should have kept your eyes wide open...

Agreed, it was nice, and there WAS action, unless you don't consider that high speed motorcycle race action..

BTW ELiza dances real nice, I wonder if that was "programmed" also..

What, no one else thought the main area of the Dollhouse looked like Wolfram & Hart?

...with zombies.

I say, she ends up soaking wet in the pilot wearing cloths that cling like Saran Wrap when drenched. ;)

WOW, you pretty much nailed that! (reference: shower scene at the beginning)

Not must-see for me yet. I'll give it one more shot.

Similar to My On Worst Enemy and featuring a guy from Journeyman - not good signs.;)

His name is Reed Diamond. How is that for a stage name? Not sure of his performances on Journeyman, but he was great as Detective Mike Kellerman on Homicide: Life on the Street. If memory recalls he had an odd romance with Michele Forbes who played an M.E. on the show. They were both damaged goods. That was a great show!

Reed Diamond also played a pivotal guest role on the first episode of "The Shield" - the detective (Terry Crowley) murdered by Vic Mackey because he was going to inform on Mackey's team. I've noticed Reed in every role after that (including Journeyman, which both my wife and I liked a lot).

I was a bit underwhelmed by the Dollhouse pilot, but maybe that was due to how much I (and my wife) have liked Whedon's previous series (Buffy, Angel, Firefly, we loved all of them ... haven't seen Dr. Horrible yet, though, but expect it to be as good).

My wife may not continue watching, although I will give it at least three or four more episode's before deciding.

Whedon's previous work has such well written dialogue, nicely defined (and quickly defined) characters, and intriguing premises. All of these aspects were somewhat lacking (to me) in the pilot. The acting was mostly ok to me (and I specially liked Tahmoh in the FBI agent role), and while Eliza didn't make me wince, she hasn't (yet) made me forget the good job she did as Faith (in Buffy).

The central premise still seems a bit out of place (and it was the same for me with My Own Worst Enemy) - if you had the technology, in today's world, to do full and complete brain scans, then brain "imprints" on a live subject, wouldn't that have fundamental and revolutionary impacts to society, and allow more creative uses than a secret group running a "super duper high-priced temp agency" service?

Now I realize that Whedon is using the series less as a "real" science fiction showcase and more of a character contrast and study, with the story arc as more of a traditional action / suspense / mystery (with sci-fi elements) theme. But the basic premise still bothers me, and his previous series didn't bother me at all in the out-of-the-ordinary elements (whether sci-fi or supernatural).

Anyway, I'll see where I stand in a month or two.

Cliff

I will give it a season but I can see myself getting hooked.

Meh... Wasn't great IMO. Hot babe though. I'll give it another chance. The first couple of eps of any show never really impress me. Takes time to get to know & like the characters.

This show will have to get beyond bad for me not to enjoy it. The cast and premise alone are enough to keep me watching - enthusiastically.

This show will have to get beyond bad for me not to enjoy it. The cast and premise alone are enough to keep me watching - enthusiastically.

Yeah, that's kind of how I look at it too. It's Joss, which means it's going to be decent at a bare minimum. It's Eliza. It's sci-fi. It looks great. She looks great. What's not to love? :p

Besides, for the next month or so, Friday has become the best TV night of the week. It's geek nirvana. :)

I'd have like to have seen the original concept as Joss had envisioned it. It felt like there was some tinkering done in the final product.

There is a document out in the ether that claims to be the script for the pilot. No way to know if it is authentic unless/if that episode airs. In either case I hope they saved the original pilot for the blu-ray set.

This is a Joss Whedon show with a good portion of the 'verse crew in it so I am sticking with it to the bitter end.

Very uninspiring first episode. I hope they get better.

Along with the overall "meh" story, I had a lot of nits:

- In the opening portions, after Echo dumps the motorcycle, it's later shown with zero damage. As someone who has ridden plenty of bikes with plastic on them, I can tell you that even a simple tip over can shatter plastic fairings. A low side like she did would make into yet another naked character. For example, a friend stepped on some oil at a stop light and destroyed his left fairing just from tipping it over - and that was after almost saving it. I had a deer run into me from the side of the road on a Ninja and between plastic, signals, a clutch handle, mirrors and various other items, the bike became a write-off at a total of $4200. I won't even go into ditching your helmet after you've just hit the pavement...I mean, replace it later, but was she that certain she wouldn't take another tumble?

- Which leads me to risk...The company sure lets their "property" take a lot of physical risk, from riding really fast bikes in a completely insane manner to meeting up with guys with guns without wearing body armor, then allowing her to go into the nest of the bad guys alone with support far enough away that she has time to pull the girl out of the fridge and get back into the line of fire before backup shows up.

- So, the company allows the clients to sleep with their "dolls"? I'm thinking that makes it a little risky for future clients, even with protection (which isn't 100%). Not only that, I'm sure a "date gone wrong" will be the reason for the scars on the other woman at the Dollhouse.

- I'm willing to buy into the whole brainwashing thing, but making someone nearsighted without surgery is a bit over the top. Not only that, asthma medication can be fatal for those that don't actually have asthma.

- I'm not so sure about the wiping thing involving a hard drive, either. Maybe for programming, but, again, while I'm OK with the brainwashing thing, getting memories out of a brain and onto a computer drive is pushing it. I can buy eliminating memories, but offloading them like she's a PDA synching up with your laptop is a bit much. Why not just wipe the memories? What use is it to save what they take from her? You'd think they would only want to keep the clean image they programmed her with initially.

- The bidding up thing on the ransom was silly. It was like someone had suggested she bid it down, but someone else chimed in that it might seem to much like "Ransom" - so they flipped it the other way.

- I'm surprised her "expert" identity didn't figure the plan was to kill the girl a whole lot earlier when it was realized only one of them wore a mask to hide himself. Why would they let her go if she could ID them? Or, in contrast, why wouldn't the guys who hadn't planned on killing her allow her to see their faces?

- What's the deal with laying the fridge down? Wouldn't it be easier to strap it closed with it upright? Not only that, the one guy intended to dispose of it girl and all. It's hard to move a fridge laying down.

- No offense, but what kind of sleeping arrangements are those? Do they do oil changes overnight? If you can program people any way you want, you'd think you'd restrict the budget to a room of bunks, especially considering the community shower thing.

- What's the deal with laying the fridge down? Wouldn't it be easier to strap it closed with it upright? Not only that, the one guy intended to dispose of it girl and all. It's hard to move a fridge laying down.

- No offense, but what kind of sleeping arrangements are those? Do they do oil changes overnight? If you can program people any way you want, you'd think you'd restrict the budget to a room of bunks, especially considering the community shower thing.Looks cool, secure (no sleep-walking or exploring), sound-proof (no sleep-talking or shared remembering), interesting how the fridge mirrors "sleeping arrangements" (Echo was only one I noticed in a fetal position).


v/r,
C-F

Very uninspiring first episode. I hope they get better.

Along with the overall "meh" story, I had a lot of nits:

I feel a bit like you, but some of these points I think I cana ddress (until contradicted by the show :P)

- In the opening portions, after Echo dumps the motorcycle,...but was she that certain she wouldn't take another tumble?

Yeah, clearly just a stunt set-piece, with her taking off the helmet so we can see that its her. I also doubt she could even lift a bike like that

- Which leads me to risk...The company sure lets their "property" take a lot of physical risk, ne of fire before backup shows up.

I'm thinking that the company views dolls like meat. If one is damaged, they are disposed of. So any particular doll probably isn't that important. The implications that they get at least some from slave traders reinforces this.


- So, the company allows the clients to sleep with their "dolls"? I'm thinking that makes it a little risky for future clients, even with protection (which isn't 100%). Not only that, I'm sure a "date gone wrong" will be the reason for the scars on the other woman at the Dollhouse.

I can only guess that "sex toy" is a VERY large part of their business, though if that pricetag of a million dollars for "engagement" is true, then maybe not (unless they have children or some other very taboo dolls somewhere)

- I'm willing to buy into the whole brainwashing thing, but making someone nearsighted without surgery is a bit over the top. Not only that, asthma medication can be fatal for those that don't actually have asthma.

I think what they did was make the doll "think" they are nearsighted or had asthma. The glasses and inhaler could have been placebos.

- I'm not so sure about the wiping thing involving a hard drive, either. Maybe for programming, ...her with initially.

I bet past engagements come into play, or repeat performances are sometimes required, so they store the imprint for future use. It is clearly a bit of techwanking though.

- The bidding up thing on the ransom was silly. It was like someone had suggested she bid it down, but someone else chimed in that it might seem to much like "Ransom" - so they flipped it the other way.

Yeah, this was poor writing. Designed to make her seem tough and competent, but fell flat

- I'm surprised her "expert" identity didn't figure the plan was to kill the girl a whole lot earlier when it was realized only one of them wore a mask to hide himself. Why would they let her go if she could ID them? Or, in contrast, why wouldn't the guys who hadn't planned on killing her allow her to see their faces?

I think her thought was that the masked man was known to the girl, thus he was masked. The other guys were unconcerned as they were plannig to pop smoke once the job was done. Being visually identified probably isn't a big fear for these guys

- No offense, but what kind of sleeping arrangements are those? Do they do oil changes overnight? If you can program people any way you want, you'd think you'd restrict the budget to a room of bunks, especially considering the community shower thing.

I agree, seems odd, unless they are programmed to sleep for long periods of time (though that has serious consequences for their health. I suspect it was a "looks cool" moment to emphasize their childlike, programmed behaviour.



Anyway, as a Whedon show, I fully expect most of these issues to be resolved. He definitely puts a lot of thought into everything, no way he would have such an elaborate set unless it was going to be an integral part.

They made it clear that they messed up something in her mind so she DID need the glasses, not that they made her THINK she did. Good point on storing the memory, gives them an out for future eps - I think the main reasons though (show-wise) is so one of the dolls can discover them later.

Reasonable nits, but picking at them is a sure way to avoid any entertainment value a show like this might provide. Accept the premise and roll with the nits, or you'll be better off not wasting time watching it. If the writing is such that the stories are interesting, I'll overlook the kinds of points you observed.

I'm sorry, but I think Joss Whedon is a bum. I liked the first couple of seasons of Buffy, I hated Angel, and WTF is Firefly.

I tuned out of this show after about 25 mins, but that could have been the terrible fever from the flu I had over this weekend. ;)

I guess I owe it 2 more viewings before I cancel it, or Fox cancels it first.

I'm sorry, but I think Joss Whedon is a bum. I liked the first couple of seasons of Buffy, I hated Angel, and WTF is Firefly.

I tuned out of this show after about 25 mins, but that could have been the terrible fever from the flu I had over this weekend. ;)

I guess I owe it 2 more viewings before I cancel it, or Fox cancels it first.

And here I thought all Linux users were huge Whedon fanbois after Firefly. Strong geek appeal in both audiences. ;)

I've always thought Joss's stuff isn't for everyone, because his sense of humor and ear for dialog are both somewhat out of the mainstream. I wouldn't argue with someone who has given it a legitimate shot and just isn't into it.

That being said, the Dollhouse pilot was about the least Whedonesque thing I've ever seen that he's been heavily involved with. Which maybe gave the show a little more mass appeal but probably didn't help with the critics or the rabid legion of Joss fans out there.

If you really want a sense of what kind of stuff he does when unfettered, take 45 minutes and watch Dr. Horrible's Sing Along Blog on Hulu. You may or may not be disappointed. (Just keep in mind it was a little side project.) ;)

.... and WTF is Firefly.



Genius (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0303461/).

I'm sorry, but I think Joss Whedon is a bum. I liked the first couple of seasons of Buffy, I hated Angel, and WTF is Firefly.
.

Dang kids and their hippy hop music! Not knowing what Firefly is!

*shakes fist*
Get off my lawn! :D

- Which leads me to risk...The company sure lets their "property" take a lot of physical risk, ne of fire before backup shows up.

I'm thinking that the company views dolls like meat. If one is damaged, they are disposed of. So any particular doll probably isn't that important. The implications that they get at least some from slave traders reinforces this.
That's the problem: they're worried about getting caught at this sort of thing. I would think the Dolls wouldn't be that easy to replace without attracting attention. Not to mention, injury or death is going to lead to investigation by those that might look closer.

- So, the company allows the clients to sleep with their "dolls"? I'm thinking that makes it a little risky for future clients, even with protection (which isn't 100%). Not only that, I'm sure a "date gone wrong" will be the reason for the scars on the other woman at the Dollhouse.

I can only guess that "sex toy" is a VERY large part of their business, though if that pricetag of a million dollars for "engagement" is true, then maybe not (unless they have children or some other very taboo dolls somewhere)
Again, if you just want "a date" for the night, you can have the same experience for a whole lot less. Likewise, as you indicated, if there are under aged people involved, that's still a high price to pay - and to a company that has your name and the resources to blackmail you.

- I'm willing to buy into the whole brainwashing thing, but making someone nearsighted without surgery is a bit over the top. Not only that, asthma medication can be fatal for those that don't actually have asthma.

I think what they did was make the doll "think" they are nearsighted or had asthma. The glasses and inhaler could have been placebos.
They mentioned she really was nearsighted and had asthma as a result of the programming. If they had merely said she thinks she needs glasses or the inhaler, I'd buy into it a lot more.

- I'm not so sure about the wiping thing involving a hard drive, either. Maybe for programming, ...her with initially.

I bet past engagements come into play, or repeat performances are sometimes required, so they store the imprint for future use. It is clearly a bit of techwanking though.
But why would you save something that has potentially been corrupt, especially in the case of where a "mission" went bad?

It's like paintings create for a period movie where an artist has painted the actor to look like, say, George Washington. That painting isn't kept for future use in order to avoid it potentially accidentally ending up in another film requiring a portrait of George Washington. You keep the portrait of the original guy instead.

Anyway, as a Whedon show, I fully expect most of these issues to be resolved. He definitely puts a lot of thought into everything, no way he would have such an elaborate set unless it was going to be an integral part.
I think he puts a lot of thought into the overall story arc, but I find his details are often lacking. I also think his fans are waaay to forgiving at times. I'll give the show a few more episodes to give it time to get to the proper episode order. Then, maybe it will settle in properly.

I've always thought Joss's stuff isn't for everyone, because his sense of humor and ear for dialog are both somewhat out of the mainstream. I wouldn't argue with someone who has given it a legitimate shot and just isn't into it.

I think that's a huge problem, though. You can't put a show on a major TV network that is a niche product. Sorry, but that's bad business. That's what cable is for.

There's a huge difference between a mainstream show with inside jokes or references for the niche audience and niche show with a few mainstream elements in it.

I suppose it's fair to discuss Whedon fanboy-ism in the "Dollhouse" thread. I probably don't qualify as a fanboy or browncoat or whatever, but I have developed a respect for Whedon's work. I started with Buffy after it was no longer in first-run, only because a commentator on National Review declared it the best series in TV history. I rented DVDs from Netflix to check BtVS out, and was impressed. I watched all of it, then all of Angel. I noticed episodes that had Joss Whedon as the writer and/or director credit seemed to have a higher level of quality in general. Then I watched Firefly on DVD after not having seen any of it on Fox. For the first few eps, I just did not get why it had such a following. But by the end...I consider "Objects in Space" one of the most impressive episodes of any television series, ever.

"Dollhouse" has potential. Whedon has earned my admiration for some of his work. I'm going to give this series a chance.

...Then I watched Firefly on DVD after not having seen any of it on Fox. For the first few eps, I just did not get why it had such a following. But by the end...I consider "Objects in Space" one of the most impressive episodes of any television series, ever.
I fully agree on Firefly. I was the same way. I stuck it out and was rewarded with a great show after the first several episodes. The dialog was one of the high points, for sure.

The problem is, now, more than even then, a show isn't going to be allowed time to settle in and become impressive.

"Dollhouse" has potential. Whedon has earned my admiration for some of his work. I'm going to give this series a chance.
Agreed, but only to a point. There are a lot of great TV shows out there. There's no compelling reason to ride a train wreck out when you can jump to safety into a soft field of clover, the hop the express on the other track when it passes.

But why would you save something that has potentially been corrupt, especially in the case of where a "mission" went bad?

It's like paintings create for a period movie where an artist has painted the actor to look like, say, George Washington. That painting isn't kept for future use in order to avoid it potentially accidentally ending up in another film requiring a portrait of George Washington. You keep the portrait of the original guy instead.
Except in this case, our dolls are made from composites of personalities. The latest negotiator Echo has confronted the kidnapper from her childhood and presumably come out stronger for it. It'd make sense to download that personality for their archives and upload that version of it to Echo the next time that particular portion of a negotiator personality is needed.

Except in this case, our dolls are made from composites of personalities. The latest negotiator Echo has confronted the kidnapper from her childhood and presumably come out stronger for it. It'd make sense to download that personality for their archives and upload that version of it to Echo the next time that particular portion of a negotiator personality is needed.
Or they could wipe the kidnapping memories from the original profile and have a clean profile where the stuff that went wrong never went wrong and won't potentially cause her a totally different issue if similar circumstances occur.

When you accidentally put too much rum in a Long Island Iced Tea, it's usually easier to just start over from scratch than balance it out with the other ingredients.

Depends on how many you've already had. :D

Depends on how many you've already had. :D
It doesn't take many, especially with too much rum in them.

"I'd like to visit this place called 'Long Island', if only it really existed..."

Dang kids and their hippy hop music! Not knowing what Firefly is!

*shakes fist*
Get off my lawn! :D

LOL. I know what Firefly is, I just didn't get the whole premise behind the series. Maybe I should rent the short lived series from Netflix and see what all the fanboyism is about.:eek:

I think that's a huge problem, though. You can't put a show on a major TV network that is a niche product. Sorry, but that's bad business. That's what cable is for.

Sure you can. Just don't cry about it when it doesn't bring in viewers. :( I wasn't trying to argue whether or not airing Dollhouse is a smart business move for Fox. I'm just pointing out that Whedon's style is not for everyone. As good a show as Buffy was, I'm still absolutely amazed that it managed to live for seven seasons. If the WB had been an established network or reality TV had picked up steam a few years earlier, there's no way it would've lasted more than a season. We know the major networks don't really give shows time to find an audience and/or their voice (especially expensive ones) which makes it tough for truly original stuff to get on the air and stay there.

I keep thinking the greatest trick the Lost creators pulled was not revealing that the show is about time travel until 4 seasons in. :)

LOL. I know what Firefly is, I just didn't get the whole premise behind the series. Maybe I should rent the short lived series from Netflix and see what all the fanboyism is about.:eek:

Nah, dip into the piggy bank and buy it. If any TV series ever had a high rewatchability factor, it's 'Firefly'. It was completely unique. I know I've watched the series through several times, and probably will again once I get the blu-ray set.

Based on the measly one-episode sample I've seen so far, 'Dollhouse' is no 'Firefly'. But it's likely going to be plenty good to keep my attention. Hopefully, it will be good enough for buzz and alternate income streams to compensate for low viewership and keep it on the schedule. With The Big Karaoke Show keeping the FOX Network's coffers flush, they should be able to afford to keep this show and T:SCC on the air on a night where expectations aren't high.

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread:

TV Notes
Dollhouse Ratings Loser, iTunes Winner
By IMDB - February 17, 2009

Although the new Joss Whedon series Dollhouse had only a so-so debut on Fox last Friday, attracting 4.73 million viewers and winding up third in its time period, it climbed to No. 1 on Apple's iTunes site on Monday. Presumably driven by word of mouth, iTunes visitors lifted the show to No. 19 on iTunes on Saturday but by Sunday, it had risen to No. 2, behind BattleStar Galactica.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0682340/

I'm sorry, but I think Joss Whedon is a bum. I liked the first couple of seasons of Buffy, I hated Angel, and WTF is Firefly.

I tuned out of this show after about 25 mins, but that could have been the terrible fever from the flu I had over this weekend. ;)

I guess I owe it 2 more viewings before I cancel it, or Fox cancels it first.

After liking the Buffy movie I watched a couple of the first season of Buffy and thought it was too silly. Then 3-4 years later found I really liked Angel and went back to check out the early Buffy episodes. I found I liked them after all and collected all of them. Now I can still say Buffy is my favorite series of all time.

I also expect to like Dollhouse, though it's too early to really know for sure.

- Tom

From Fredfa's "Hot Off The Press" thread:

TV Notes
Dollhouse Ratings Loser, iTunes Winner
By IMDB - February 17, 2009

Presumably driven by word of mouth, iTunes visitors lifted the show to No. 19 on iTunes on Saturday but by Sunday, it had risen to No. 2, behind BattleStar Galactica.

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0682340/

Does apple release exactly how many people paid to download the episode?

I suppose we can go round and round about the glasses and inhaler being a psychological "crutch" or a physiologic necessity, but since it is only the first episode, there probably isn't much point as it will undoubtedly be addressed later (Echo breaks programming and can discard the props, etc). I would hope the show has a doc around to "proof" those types of things for consistency, but I suspect some serious artistic license will be used instead.

I suppose we can go round and round about the glasses and inhaler being a psychological "crutch" or a physiologic necessity...
Um, as noted earlier, it was clearly established that she was, with that identity actually near sighted and actually had asthma. The tech guy did this whole exposition about how he did it. It was this whole thing with altering her optic nerve in some way. The explanation was really silly, as was the device.

but since it is only the first episode, there probably isn't much point as it will undoubtedly be addressed later (Echo breaks programming and can discard the props, etc).

If they change that formula without stating they are doing it differently, it would contradict itself.

I would hope the show has a doc around to "proof" those types of things for consistency, but I suspect some serious artistic license will be used instead.
I'm pretty sure any consulting physician merely plays a doctor on TV, in this case. I'm pretty sure the artisitc license was obtained from the Picasso institute...

The thing is, I'm willing to overlook some of the silliness if the plot of the show is good enough. However, this first one just wasn't very good at all. I'll give it a couple more tries to suck me in, but this was a pretty poor effort out of the gate.

Um, as noted earlier, it was clearly established that she was, with that identity actually near sighted and actually had asthma. The tech guy did this whole exposition about how he did it. It was this whole thing with altering her optic nerve in some way. The explanation was really silly, as was the device.

Yeah, especially since nearsightedness and farsightedness are afflictions of the eyeball itself, and not the optic nerve. The original model was nearsighted due to an imperfection in the cornea, yet when they do the imprint, the doll becomes nearsighted because the optic nerve gets scrambled somehow? Doesn't make much sense. Some people will have a problem with that and some won't.

I just took that explanation as a way to show they pull in some unwanted traits when they do the imprinting and don't have total control over the process. I tried not to think about the biology behind it because the whole idea of imprinting is make-believe anyway. The writers can claim it works however they want, regardless of it makes biological sense. The imprinting thing is pretty fantastical; I wouldn't consider it to be hard sci-fi anyway.

Yeah, especially since nearsightedness and farsightedness are afflictions of the eyeball itself, and not the optic nerve. The original model was nearsighted due to an imperfection in the cornea, yet when they do the imprint, the doll becomes nearsighted because the optic nerve gets scrambled somehow? Doesn't make much sense. Some people will have a problem with that and some won't.

I just took that explanation as a way to show they pull in some unwanted traits when they do the imprinting and don't have total control over the process. I tried not to think about the biology behind it because the whole idea of imprinting is make-believe anyway. The writers can claim it works however they want, regardless of it makes biological sense. The imprinting thing is pretty fantastical; I wouldn't consider it to be hard sci-fi anyway.
That's the thing: I would have been perfectly OK with it if it had been purely psychological. If she only thought she needed glasses and the inhaler,they could have merely given her frames with window glass in them and a fake inhaler with an inert ingredient inside.

It would be similar to giving someone a fake tattoo.

The problem with the way they did it, is it leaves the door open for more ridiculous stuff like that to alter things anyway that fit the plot, rather than the limitation being that the parameters are purely mental. In fact, that would actually open the door for more potential glitches, like with a moment where she discovers that she can see fine without those glasses.

The device they used reminds me a lot of the 3D locators in "Fringe". It's like the daily meeting started off with someone saying, "you know what would be cool.."

...of course, it probably actually did...

I'm not going to dwell on it. I just took it as an explanation as to why there are flaws in the character. They find it more effective to imprint her with the best negotiator they have on file, rather than try to cut and paste the traits and characteristics they think makes an effective negotiator.

It was a necessary thing (apparently nearsightedness might not have been the best flaw to incorporate) to address why they wouldn't just program her as a superhuman with the best traits from 100 different individuals and just keep that same mega-character for 95% of the jobs she goes on.

Even someone that wants a hot, sexy hooker wouldn't mind her also being able to protect you in a bar fight.

Even someone that wants a hot, sexy hooker wouldn't mind her also being able to protect you in a bar fight.I don't think their clients want a hooker, per se. I think they want someone who just happens to like being with them.

And I haven't seen evidence that they can pick and choose traits like that. Perhaps the only way they could get a fun party girl who could protect you in a bar fight would be to take an imprint from such a person...

I don't think their clients want a hooker, per se. I think they want someone who just happens to like being with them.

And I haven't seen evidence that they can pick and choose traits like that. Perhaps the only way they could get a fun party girl who could protect you in a bar fight would be to take an imprint from such a person...
It's not so much picking and choosing traits so much as think they use personalities and abilities from multiple people to create a composite. So, they could combine hooker with kickboxer for a fun girl who knows how to crack heads...then add a little businesswoman for that next morning "yeah, I gotta go - I've got this early meeting..."

The premise is ridiculous. But that's true of many entertaining programs.

I will appreciate it if they take the ridiculous premise--following their own rules--and use it to tell interesting and entertaining stories.

So, they could combine hooker with kickboxer for a fun girl who knows how to crack heads...What's this fascination with prostitutes?

Even if someone wants to argue that Echo is a prostitute, I don't see any reason whatsoever to think that she would be imprinted with a prostitute's memories. Why not just someone who enjoys having fun or doing those things? Why imprint her with the memory/personality of someone who gets paid for it?

FInally got around to watching the premier. It was all I could do to finish the hour. Not going to keep this one in the to do list.

What's this fascination with prostitutes?

Even if someone wants to argue that Echo is a prostitute, I don't see any reason whatsoever to think that she would be imprinted with a prostitute's memories. Why not just someone who enjoys having fun or doing those things? Why imprint her with the memory/personality of someone who gets paid for it?
Well, I'm sure they wouldn't imprint her with someone working a street corner in West Hollywood, but a high scale escort would certainly remove some inhibitions with a touch of class.

BTW: I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first one to use the word hooker, though I did comment that having her sleeping with clients probably wasn't particularily wise on the part of the company.

I did comment that having her sleeping with clients probably wasn't particularily wise on the part of the company.Why not? What's wrong with that? The client seemed to enjoy it as did Echo's imprinted personality. Win-win.

Why not? What's wrong with that? The client seemed to enjoy it as did Echo's imprinted personality. Win-win.
It's all fine until the first client that gives her crabs - then she pass it to all their other high budget clients who have to explain the new medication and special comb to the wife...

It's all fine until the first client that gives her crabs - then she pass it to all their other high budget clients who have to explain the new medication and special comb to the wife...If they can wipe her mind, I'm sure they can wipe her body of infection. And you seem to think that the Dollhouse is just a high-priced brothel. Again, I don't understand the fascination with prostitution, but it seems to me that the Dollhouse is much more than that.

So far I believe we've seen three assignments. Echo's first was a fun weekend partner for some rich kid's birthday. Fine. You might call that prostitution.

The second was a hostage negotiator. The third was (Sierra as) a commando.

So 2/3 of the assignments we've seen so far were completely non-sexual in nature.

If they can wipe her mind, I'm sure they can wipe her body of infection. And you seem to think that the Dollhouse is just a high-priced brothel. Again, I don't understand the fascination with prostitution, but it seems to me that the Dollhouse is much more than that.

So far I believe we've seen three assignments. Echo's first was a fun weekend partner for some rich kid's birthday. Fine. You might call that prostitution.

The second was a hostage negotiator. The third was (Sierra as) a commando.

So 2/3 of the assignments we've seen so far were completely non-sexual in nature.
You're the one who seems fascinated by it. I meantioned it once in a list of several things. The discussion then evolved to a comparision to high price prostitutes.

Get a grip and get over it. If it bothers you, stop referencing it. You're the one who keeps replying with the same nonsense about one single reference.

Get a grip and get over it. If it bothers you, stop referencing it.It just bothers me when people see one episode and make assumptions about what the show's about. You seem fixated on the prostitution angle. Others think they're spies. Still others, cops.

All we know is that they're actives...

It's probably natural to focus on the prostitution aspect of it since the actives are all so, um, hot. If they were all dumpy and frumpy, that probably wouldn't be the first thing people would think of. Of course, that show wouldn't draw flies, either. Joss ain't no dummy; he knows his audience. ;)

It just bothers me when people see one episode and make assumptions about what the show's about. You seem fixated on the prostitution angle. Others think they're spies. Still others, cops.

All we know is that they're actives...
Actually, no, you called me out after 2 other people referenced it and I responded to them. Prior to that, I never insinuated she was a prostitute. I merely made note of her having sex - something you don't have to be a prostitute to do. However, from an image standpoint, unless that's one of the services the company provides, abstinence might be a good addition to the programming. Otherwise, it just seems a bit unprofessional to be counting on that same person to be getting my child back from kidnappers.

If we're going to continue down this path, can we at least have some pics? :p:D

If we're going to continue down this path, can we at least have some pics? :p:D
I'm up for screen grabs - but I already deleted the episode. Someone else is going to have to pony up.

Um, as noted earlier, it was clearly established that she was, with that identity actually near sighted and actually had asthma.
Of all the people I ever knew of that had asthma and used an inhaler, they weren't dosing themselves every five minutes like she was. :)

Of all the people I ever knew of that had asthma and used an inhaler, they weren't dosing themselves every five minutes like she was. :)
Agreed on that point. That's a TV thing. The air must be thinner in the world of make believe.

I'm up for screen grabs - but I already deleted the episode. Someone else is going to have to pony up.
I still have it sitting on my hard drive and was going to make screen grabs but freeze framing it I realized that the best shots might violate some of the posting rules. It turns out while dancing, her skirt rode up higher than I remembered. I'm a little surprised the Parents Television Council didn't issue a press release, especially given that it aired outside the safe harbor period. Granted, it wasn't anywhere nearly as bad (or if you prefer, good) as the full frontal Survivor slip last year or even the NYPD Blue butts from years past, but the PTC seems to like those displays of moral indignation. . .

I still have it sitting on my hard drive and was going to make screen grabs but freeze framing it I realized that the best shots might violate some of the posting rules. It turns out while dancing, her skirt rode up higher than I remembered. I'm a little surprised the Parents Television Council didn't issue a press release, especially given that it aired outside the safe harbor period. Granted, it wasn't anywhere nearly as bad (or if you prefer, good) as the full frontal Survivor slip last year or even the NYPD Blue butts from years past, but the PTC seems to like those displays of moral indignation. . .


I only watched the premire once but if I remember correctly I thought she was wearing shorts underneath the dress? The same type that cheeleaders wear under their outfits.;)

Definitely not while she was dancing. She was wearing leathers under the dress while riding the motorcycle though.

I only watched the premire once but if I remember correctly I thought she was wearing shorts underneath the dress? The same type that cheeleaders wear under their outfits.;)

That's right; she had short-shorts of some kind under the mini-dress, not just panties. Not that I was looking for that or anything. I'm no perv, you pervs. Just an observant viewer. With a good memory for detail.

I rewatched it and for one frame, I guess you can see what appears to be silver (to match her shoes) boy-short underwear. I suppose they could be spankies that cheerleaders wear but they seem kind of high cut for shorts. I'd be surprised if there were more than a couple of inches of material at the hip.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7623/dance1mz6.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dance1mz6.jpg)

It's amazing what you can pick up when you watch frame by frame. :D

I rewatched it and for one frame, I guess you can see what appears to be silver (to match her shoes) boy-short underwear. I suppose they could be spankies that cheerleaders wear but they seem kind of high cut for shorts. I'd be surprised if there were more than a couple of inches of material at the hip.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7623/dance1mz6.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dance1mz6.jpg)


Another reason I'm going to give this show a few weeks to 'flesh out'.

I wish people would stop using ImageShack to host these screencaps. More often than not, the picture just won't open for me. The little 'loading" wheel spins and spins but nothing happens, and it's a frakkin' JPEG, fercryinoutloud. Maybe it's just me and my stubborn refusal to "upgrade" XP to Vista...

I wish people would stop using ImageShack to host these screencaps. More often than not, the picture just won't open for me. The little 'loading" wheel spins and spins but nothing happens, and it's a frakkin' JPEG, fercryinoutloud. Maybe it's just me and my stubborn refusal to "upgrade" XP to Vista...
Not to mention the bandwidth limits. I'm constantly getting that stupid "oops" frog.

I prefer Photobucket, personally, unless I absolutely need to post a full rez 1080i/p HD image (I think PB tops out at 1280x1024 or something like that).

Okay, you know a show is inherently in trouble when the only thing being discussed is about trying to look up some chick's dress using screen caps. :rolleyes:

I mean I can appreciate the cheap thrill, intentional or unintentional, by the new young hot thing in the office who's looking to tease a little ****, but a chick on a big 4 network show whose outfits are specially tailored to look erotic, but ultimately reveal practically nothing? C'mon now. Wouldn't the time be better spent working as a security guard who monitors women's dressing rooms? :p

________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I mean I can appreciate the cheap thrill, intentional or unintentional, by the new young hot thing in the office who's looking to tease a little ****, but a chick on a big 4 network show whose outfits are specially tailored to look erotic, but ultimately reveal practically nothing? C'mon now. Wouldn't the time be better spent working as a security guard who monitors women's dressing rooms? :p


Well sure. If they make a TV show based on that promising premise, I'm there! Heck, that show is probably already running on Italian TV. :p

Well sure. If they make a TV show based on that promising premise, I'm there! Heck, that show is probably already running on Italian TV. :p

Fox had a show like this called Peepin' It Real.

Or so they claimed in the Simpsons: Behind the Laughter episode. :p

I wish people would stop using ImageShack to host these screencaps. More often than not, the picture just won't open for me. The little 'loading" wheel spins and spins but nothing happens, and it's a frakkin' JPEG, fercryinoutloud. Maybe it's just me and my stubborn refusal to "upgrade" XP to Vista...
Hey, point me towards a better site that allows me to throw up a full rez screenshot without having to register for an account, give an e-mail, that's as simple and as easy to remember and I'll use it. Better yet, take your own screenshot and host them where ever you like.

Eliza video for maxim magazine shoot

http://www.charter.net/video/?vid=182062&sc_cid=wccel2

Eliza video for maxim magazine shoot

http://www.charter.net/video/?vid=182062&sc_cid=wccel2

Well, no one is ever going to accuse her of being top heavy. :(

Personally, I still give a major edge to Grace Park's Maxim spread which I posted at the forum a couple of years back as part of the Ms. Battlestar Galactica Beauty Pageant. Zowee! :D

________________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Okay, you know a show is inherently in trouble when the only thing being discussed is about trying to look up some chick's dress using screen caps. :rolleyes:

I mean I can appreciate the cheap thrill, intentional or unintentional, by the new young hot thing in the office who's looking to tease a little ****, but a chick on a big 4 network show whose outfits are specially tailored to look erotic, but ultimately reveal practically nothing? C'mon now. Wouldn't the time be better spent working as a security guard who monitors women's dressing rooms? :p

________________________________________
Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind


OK, Let's talk about the show. What was the scene at the end? Two murdered people in a home. Some guy that most likely killed them & watching what looked like Eco's past/real life home videos.

Who is he? What does he want? Is he looking for her? Were the dead people her parents? Seems like "maybe" she's on the run from someone?

OK, Let's talk about the show. What was the scene at the end? Two murdered people in a home. Some guy that most likely killed them & watching what looked like Eco's past/real life home videos.

Who is he? What does he want? Is he looking for her? Were the dead people her parents? Seems like "maybe" she's on the run from someone?

Yeah, I wondered about that scene, I felt like I had missed something, but I don't guess I did. Wonder if these endings will lead into the new episodes or they will be out their dangling, like LOST. I hope this show gets in gear.

The one thing that concerns me a tiny bit, is that it was Dushku's idea for the show and not actually one that Whedon came up with, he seems to be all on board with it, so hopefully it will fly, but I still have to wonder how well he can run with someone elses idea for a show.

I assumed the scary dude at the end is "Alpha."

That would make him the first Active, most likely. Actives are named with phonetic alphabet designations.

We could call him "Triple S" - as in "Scary Stalker Slayer"... ;)

Well, no one is ever going to accuse her of being top heavy. :(

Personally, I still give a major edge to Grace Park's Maxim spread which I posted at the forum a couple of years back as part of the Ms. Battlestar Galactica Beauty Pageant. Zowee! :D


Eliza is frakkin' Jennifer Love Hewitt compared to Ms. Park, however. Not that I pay attention to such trifles. ;)

I assumed the scary dude at the end is "Alpha."

That would make him the first Active, most likely. Actives are named with phonetic alphabet designations.

Yeah, I think that's right. I'm sensing something akin, perhaps, to the Katee Sackoff character in the late non-lamented 'Bionic Woman': a former operative gone rogue that our heroine is going to have to go up against.

Yeah, I think that's right. I'm sensing something akin, perhaps, to the Katee Sackoff character in the late non-lamented 'Bionic Woman': a former operative gone rogue that our heroine is going to have to go up against.

Every show like this, needs the big bad(s). Good against evil, looking forward to tonight's show.

Eliza is frakkin' Jennifer Love Hewitt compared to Ms. ParkAre you trying to say that Eliza is more attractive than Grace Park or less attractive?

Are you trying to say that Eliza is more attractive than Grace Park or less attractive?

Well, it depends on which particular body part(s) you're talking about. ;)