I'm just confused on why people think HD-DVD will win despite only have 2 exclusive backers and 1 who supports both even with a low price cost player.

Despite Blu-Ray having 4 exclusive backers and 1 who supports both.

Why would the consumer want to buy a player that will not play more than half of the titles the Blu-Ray format has? Are they just gonna wait it out and hope the exclusive blu-ray backers will go neutral sometime in the future?

VHS won cause they had an exclusive backer, aka the Porn industry.
So why would price be the determinant this time?

Don't know if HD DVD will win...but there's NO question ALL of those HD A2's will sell out like hot cakes at the Wal-Mart $98 price. How many will move this Friday? 50,000?
At some point there are just too many owners of the hardware to kill a format, if it makes them money they'll stick with it.

Don't know if HD DVD will win...but there's NO question ALL of those HD A2's will sell out like hot cakes at the Wal-Mart $98 price. How many will move this Friday? 50,000?

The price is pretty attractive, I must admit. The lack of 1080p/24 kills it for me. I've never seen so many people who like to brag about having the cheapest crap out there. Usually people strive for the opposite . . .

The price is pretty attractive, I must admit. The lack of 1080p/24 kills it.

Both of my HDTV's are 1080i/720p as I'd gather most other HDTV's bought before 2007 are. It's a nonissue for most people.

Both of my HDTV's are 1080i/720p as I'd gather most other HDTV's bought before 2007 are. It's a nonissue for most people.

I was speaking personally.

I'm just confused on why people think HD-DVD will win despite only have 2 exclusive backers and 1 who supports both even with a low price cost player.

Despite Blu-Ray having 4 exclusive backers and 1 who supports both.

Why would the consumer want to buy a player that will not play more than half of the titles the Blu-Ray format has? Are they just gonna wait it out and hope the exclusive blu-ray backers will go neutral sometime in the future?

VHS won cause they had an exclusive backer, aka the Porn industry.
So why would price be the determinant this time?

Price always trumps all, maybe not for you, me or most of the other guys here but for most everyone else expensive electronics just don't cut it.

Who says HD-DVD is going to win? I'm sure they wouldn't bet their life on it if they're going to make those prediction.

Both will survive for a long time....I'm glad that we, consumer, are given a choice Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Because of the choices, prices go down cheaper and faster for consumers.

If HD-DVD prices come down, then expect Blu-Ray to come down as well... therefore, price should not be the ultimate factor.

So what happens if all the movies are release on Blu-Ray, so what's the point of having a 50 cents HD-DVD player sitting around? LOL....

Price always trumps all, maybe not for you, me or most of the other guys here but for most everyone else expensive electronics just don't cut it.

This may not turn out to be true, as all of the market information regarding Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD leans in Blu-ray's favor in every way except for price. There is something to be said for "what eveybody else is buying." But then again, that would require research on the part of the consumer which, from personal experience in retail, I know most people don't do.

The price is pretty attractive, I must admit. The lack of 1080p/24 kills it. I've never seen so many people who like to brag about having the cheapest crap out there. Usually people strive for the opposite . . .

Kills it for who? The .000001% of the population who own one of the .000001% of the TVs that both accepts a 1080p24 signal and does 5:5 pull down on said signal?

What, are you kidding? ^_^

Kills it for who? The .000001% of the population who own one of the .000001% of the TVs that both accepts a 1080p24 signal and does 5:5 pull down on said signal?

What, are you kidding? ^_^

As I said before, it kills it for me.

The price is pretty attractive, I must admit. The lack of 1080p/24 kills it for me. I've never seen so many people who like to brag about having the cheapest crap out there. Usually people strive for the opposite . . .

With all due respect to J6P, J6P doesn't know 1080p/24 from a hole in the ground. Same goes for bitrate, bandwidth, TrueHD, or whatever, but as we all know, J6P buys millions of DVD's every single week.

Do you think that all of those millions of DVD's are being played through video processors with Farouda scaler chips, projected with a high end projector through an anamorphic lens onto a 2:35 cinemascope screen with motorized variable side-masking? With high-end audio gear capable of 7.1 TrueHD playback with speakers and subwoofers that could drown out a jet engine? Of course not.

The J6P we're dealing with has no idea why his cable/satellite looks so crappy on his new 42" LCD. He wonders why he sees those black bars, and stretches the image so the whole screen is used. Calibration? What the hell is that?

If you are trying to crack into the mass market, you have to operate on the only terms that everyone understands....PRICE. Make it cheap. Make it affordable. If you want to convince J6P that he needs High Definition movies and players, he will careless what it looks like if it costs too much.

We here at AVSforums all live in a very elite AV world. We can't expect J6P to get into a heated argument about Transformers not having lossless audio. He wouldn't know anything about it, and probably couldn't care less if he did. We get all bent out of shape when it comes to this stuff because we are a particular breed of people who just LOVE everything audio/video. We'll go out and spend $1500 on an anamorphic lens....a LENS!!, for God's sake! J6P would probably think, "jeez, I could fix my roof with that kind of money!"

But you give J6P a dirt cheap deal on a high definition player, and show him a movie like Transformers, if he is the least bit interested in home entertainment, he will buy it. With or without a high bitrate.

The reason porn was a factor in the 80s was it was the first time you could view it in the spanctity of your own home. The internet's pretty much taken over there.

You could argue that the market leans in Blu-ray's favor precisely because of price, or more accurately, heavily subsidized players. There are roughly 2 million PS3s in US homes right now, all of which were sold at huge losses. There wouldn't be even a fraction of the current install base if consumers had to pay closer to the reported $800 cost.

$98 players is the HD DVD's camp response to the PS3 in a way. Take a loss to broaden the install base, and software sales will follow. Consumers need not be so reluctant anymore, as even if one side loses, they still have either a nice little game machine, or are only out $100.

So yes, I think price is important. As does Sony. No other game system has shed 200 bills before its one-year anniversary.

Edit: Erm, I didn't mean for that to come off so pro-HD. My point is that both sides are playing the pricing game in order to bolster their install base.

look up and study henry FORDs' business model.

I would hardly call HD-DVD as revolutionary as an affordable automobile. That was a totally different climate as well. Nobody who's into cars wants to drive a Kia.

Ok, before somebody feels the need to quote my post again to try and prove a point, I was speaking on a personal level. I understand a lot of people don't know or care about 1080p/24.

If your TV has good deinterlacing capacity, 24P is not very important.

If you only have a 720/60P, 1080/60i set, 24P is not needed at all.

And if you have a 1080/24P set you can always afford the more expensive player.

Desperation at its best for HD-DVD. $98 is really low and Toshiba is bleeding a lot of money to try to make their format stick around with their clearance discontinued HD-DVD players. All this will do is get people who are on tight budgets and look for bargains.

Desperation at its best for HD-DVD. $98 is really low and Toshiba is bleeding a lot of money to try to make their format stick around with their clearance discontinued HD-DVD players. All this will do is get people who are on tight budgets and look for bargains.


Actually Wallmarts discount players to get people in the stores. Thats why its not an online offer.

Once you get people in the stores, they purchase more and in the end Wallmart makes money.

And you cant say that a 98$ HD DVD players aint attractive.

I was speaking personally.

oh ok then well you understand there are billions of people on earth and so many in america that dont care about the specs as long as the PQ is better than dvd at a price of 98 dollars they will buy it...your an advanced audio/video person vs millions. BLU dont care about you personally they care about the millions and HDDVd is the same.

I own a HD-A2 and would easily become format neutral if the price was right...as in a BR player for $98.

My question is this: If you are pro Blu-Ray now, what reasons do you have to not go neutral now? No matter how you cut it, a deal is a deal. And this is a steal. Regardless if it wont do 1080p, etc.

I'm a movie lover and would love to have all my favorite movies in HD. As of now, I can't. But if Blu-Ray suddenly produced a player for $98, you better belive I'd be jumping all over it.


It's funny to me when people say this is HD-DVD being desperate and they are bleeding out and dying. When the fact is, this move is going to equal alot more harware sales and in turn, alot more software sales. Will it beat BR for a week or lose again? Who cares. This format war is not ending tomorrow. No matter what either side says.

In my opinion, if you are blindly sticking to one side, no matter what happens, then your asking to be let down and frustrated in the end.

As jocktheglide said: we are an advanced audio/video person vs millions. BLU dont care about you personally they care about the millions and HDDVd is the same.

1 person stubbornly holding out to one format isnt going to have as much impact on the overall format war, as say millions of J6Ps snapping up the lowest cost, most affordable player....regardless if its BR or HD.

With all due respect to J6P, J6P doesn't know 1080p/24 from a hole in the ground. Same goes for bitrate, bandwidth, TrueHD, or whatever, but as we all know, J6P buys millions of DVD's every single week.

Do you think that all of those millions of DVD's are being played through video processors with Farouda scaler chips, projected with a high end projector through an anamorphic lens onto a 2:35 cinemascope screen with motorized variable side-masking? With high-end audio gear capable of 7.1 TrueHD playback with speakers and subwoofers that could drown out a jet engine? Of course not.

The J6P we're dealing with has no idea why his cable/satellite looks so crappy on his new 42" LCD. He wonders why he sees those black bars, and stretches the image so the whole screen is used. Calibration? What the hell is that?

If you are trying to crack into the mass market, you have to operate on the only terms that everyone understands....PRICE. Make it cheap. Make it affordable. If you want to convince J6P that he needs High Definition movies and players, he will careless what it looks like if it costs too much.

We here at AVSforums all live in a very elite AV world. We can't expect J6P to get into a heated argument about Transformers not having lossless audio. He wouldn't know anything about it, and probably couldn't care less if he did. We get all bent out of shape when it comes to this stuff because we are a particular breed of people who just LOVE everything audio/video. We'll go out and spend $1500 on an anamorphic lens....a LENS!!, for God's sake! J6P would probably think, "jeez, I could fix my roof with that kind of money!"

But you give J6P a dirt cheap deal on a high definition player, and show him a movie like Transformers, if he is the least bit interested in home entertainment, he will buy it. With or without a high bitrate.

what you said there is correct.l find what toshiba is doing is smart and hopefully it goes well.Release transformers on HDDVD then entice the public with cheap players. A good move for them.Problem is are the J6p ready to move into any new format wether thats HDVD or BD.With Transformers on SD will J6P care? Don't think so!Just to mention I know heaps of people that have ps3 and only have the bonus BD thats given to them.Most of them are happy with SD!

None of this has to do with the forum topic of "Blu-ray Software"

Why would the consumer want to buy a player that will not play more than half of the titles the Blu-Ray format has?

I am seeing more of my friends getting cheaper HD-DVD players when they are replacing their broken DVD-players or those who are looking for upconverting DVD Players. This is going to help BUILD a HUGE installed CUSTOMER base for HD-DVD. These customers don't care about HD quality. BUT, will rent HD-DVDs when available as they cost same as DVDs and might even buy occasional HD-DVDs of movies like Shrek 3 and Transformers for kids birthdays.

This, I think will be a huge advantage to HD-DVD. With $99 player price, there is no way BD even has a chance to win this war unless they come up with a cheaper player that is within $50 price to HD-DVD Player.

Look at what Wii is doing to video game world. It's the low price that is killing the PS3 and XBOX 360 market.

My question is this: If you are pro Blu-Ray now, what reasons do you have to not go neutral now? No matter how you cut it, a deal is a deal. And this is a steal. Regardless if it wont do 1080p, etc.

I'm a movie lover and would love to have all my favorite movies in HD. As of now, I can't. But if Blu-Ray suddenly produced a player for $98, you better belive I'd be jumping all over it.

I am pro Blu. Why would I want to buy an HD DVD player to support a format that I want to die? Why would I buy HD DVD titles and show studios that staying neutral or going neutral is good for sales? I'm not going to collect a player and titles for a format that I'm hoping will be dead early next year. I'm especially not going to support that format during their last ditch holiday effort to stay alive. Sure I really want Serenity, Matrix and Batman Begins in high def, but I don't want equipment or software that will likely be useless in the next year. If it comes to 3rd or 4th quarter next year and HD DVD is still around and they have some really good titles with lossless audio (that Blu doesn't have), maybe. Until then, it can die and I'll kick it when it's down.

Of course an HD DVD supporter would go Blu for $100. If I picked the wrong format in the beginning I would want to switch to the winning format if it was that cheap too.

ah, you can download Porn for free, and they better have better than near perfect models for HD... ;) This isn't a comparison at all anymore when you can download it...

HD-DVD might equals a cheaper format, but not a better one... That being Toshiba is getting very desperate trying to unload these players for cheap. Why aren't other good manufactures on board? If I were Blu-Ray I would lower the prices of there players and have another fire sale on there discs till Christmas..

None of this has to do with the forum topic of "Blu-ray Software"

Read the whole thread!

Cheap is nice, but it's content that makes a great player...

Desperation at its best for HD-DVD.

I wish both sides would stop this crap. Both BD and HD are trying to get people on board during Q4. How do you do that? Drop prices or offer other incentives. Duh.

BD having a B1G1 sale isn't "desperate"... it's smart.
HD reducing the price of an older model to make room for a new one isn't "desperate"... it's smart.


Pointing fingers and implying that either side is about to collapse every time a retailer has a sale is really childish. If you think that clearancing an old model to make room for a new one is unusual, you must be new to electronics (and retail in general).

The price is pretty attractive, I must admit. The lack of 1080p/24 kills it for me. I've never seen so many people who like to brag about having the cheapest crap out there. Usually people strive for the opposite . . .

well, most of the people both sides are trying to attract now have no idea what 1080p is, nevermind 1080p/24....nevermind HDTV at all :)

I wish both sides would stop this crap. Both BD and HD are trying to get people on board during Q4. How do you do that? Drop prices or offer other incentives. Duh.

BD having a B1G1 sale isn't "desperate"... it's smart.
HD reducing the price of an older model to make room for a new one isn't "desperate"... it's smart.


Pointing fingers and implying that either side is about to collapse every time a retailer has a sale is really childish. If you think that clearancing an old model to make room for a new one is unusual, you must be new to electronics (and retail in general).

I agree with being smart, but dropping your prices that low is "desperate"...

JaylisJayP: If you where playing the numbers game like Toshiba is doing, those would be better numbers... 1080p/24 that is.... ;) LOL

when are the players made by other CEs going to come out, i think there's something inherently wrong when the format has been out for 2 years(?) now and the only one company sells the players.

btw it's not necessarily Toshiba's decision to sell the A2 at $98 for Wal-Mart, wal-mart could be moving them at loss to generate more sales and attract ppl to the stores. where i work i can see the cost of the players if we were to carry them, based on our cost we'd need to sell these (A2/A3) at $270 to make a profit. my guess is the major retailers selling these are getting some kind of rebate from Toshiba to sell at below $200.

Toshiba is clearing the warehouse to make some BD players.

$98 is really low and Toshiba is bleeding a lot of money to try to make their format stick around with their clearance discontinued HD-DVD players. All this will do is get people who are on tight budgets and look for bargains.

You mean the average consumer? The same ones Walmart relies on? The same people that both these formats are dependent on for any chance of longevity?

I agree, $98 players caters perfectly to them. Advantage, HD DVD.

Spin that.

You mean the average consumer? The same ones Walmart relies on? The same people that both these formats are dependent on for any chance of longevity?

I agree, $98 players caters perfectly to them. Advantage, HD DVD.

Spin that.

Thank you for bringing some sanity back to this discussion. Only in the wacky world of AVS can a $98 player available to mass consumers at Wal-Mart be spun into a negative.

Folks -- regardless if you're blue, red, or purple... this (and the A3 at Sears for $169, etc.) gets HD media in the hands of more people. THIS IS A GOOD THING. Sub-$200 prices, mass-market retailers highlighting the product, "bargain hunters" buying in... that's all good.

Right now, we're dealing with a format war where sides are fighting for about 1% of the movie buying public. Unless we start seeing MORE of this ~$99-150 stuff, we're going to remain a niche within a niche. And that ain't good.

Thank you for bringing some sanity back to this discussion. Only in the wacky world of AVS can a $98 player available to mass consumers at Wal-Mart be spun into a negative.

Folks -- regardless if you're blue, red, or purple... this (and the A3 at Sears for $169, etc.) gets HD media in the hands of more people. THIS IS A GOOD THING. Sub-$200 prices, mass-market retailers highlighting the product, "bargain hunters" buying in... that's all good.

Right now, we're dealing with a format war where sides are fighting for about 1% of the movie buying public. Unless we start seeing MORE of this ~$99-150 stuff, we're going to remain a niche within a niche. And that ain't good.

i just hope the one-day in-store only sale doesnt get ppl killed. not going to spin anything negative, but i really like to see other CEs get their players out to market.

I do not believe the price of hardware will determine the outcome. The price of SOFTWARE will determine the winner.

At this time, the price of the cheapest HD-DVD player is $200 and cannot do 1080p/24. The cheapest blu-ray player is $400 (Playstation 3 40GB) can do 1080p/24 and may be used for game as a bonus. The $200 in price difference is insignificant if one take the price of the movies into account.

An average person will keep a DVD player for about 2 years or more. Most people who care enough to watch high def picture instead of regular DVD will buy at least 30 movies a year or 60 movies in 2 years. If blu-ray movies is about $5 cheaper than HD-DVD on average, blu-ray owners will be better off in 2 years ($100 better).

In the past several weeks, Sony and blu-ray deal have push many movies to be $10 to $15 cheaper than HD-DVD. As a result, my blu-ray collection is now about 2 times (58 movies) larger than my HD DVD collection (30 movies).

I am now format neutral so I do not care who will win. However, if Sony can keep their new release under $25 and the re-release in blu-ray about $20 wi9th special sale, it will win the war. Software price and not hardware price will determine the outcome.

Paven

I do not believe the price of hardware will determine the outcome. The price of SOFTWARE will determine the winner.

At this time, the price of the cheapest HD-DVD player is $200 and cannot do 1080p/24. The cheapest blu-ray player is $400 (Playstation 3 40GB) can do 1080p/24 and may be used for game as a bonus. The $200 in price difference is insignificant if one take the price of the movies into account.

An average person will keep a DVD player for about 2 years or more. Most people who care enough to watch high def picture instead of regular DVD will buy at least 30 movies a year or 60 movies in 2 years. If blu-ray movies is about $5 cheaper than HD-DVD on average, blu-ray owners will be better off in 2 years ($100 better).

In the past several weeks, Sony and blu-ray deal have push many movies to be $10 to $15 cheaper than HD-DVD. As a result, my blu-ray collection is now about 2 times (58 movies) larger than my HD DVD collection (30 movies).

I am now format neutral so I do not care who will win. However, if Sony can keep their new release under $25 and the re-release in blu-ray about $20 wi9th special sale, it will win the war. Software price and not hardware price will determine the outcome.

Paven

this is kind of how i feel about pricing. the hardware price is a one-time thing, software pricing is the key, as well as content.

when i was deciding on a format, i knew it'd cost $500 for the ps3 and $250 or so for the hd dvd player. at the time HD DVD did not have Paramount on their side. i went with PS3 b/c there were simply more content and the specs were better. after Paramount switched i don't regret having gone Blu, but it did make me want to go neutral for titles like Transformers and Face/Off. i have not bought a hd dvd player til this day for several reasons, main ones being i do not have enough hdmi ports and i simply do not want 2 players that serve the same purpose.

if i had not bought into HDM prior to Paramount switching, i probably would have not bought into it at all and wait until the studio alliances are more stable.

So I guess Sony bringing out a $400 PS3 is a sign of desperation as well. System isn't even out a year and it has seen so many price changes and sku changes... That's desperation! And I am format neutral! (PS3 and 360 with HD-DVD AO).

I agree with being smart, but dropping your prices that low is "desperate"...

JaylisJayP: If you where playing the numbers game like Toshiba is doing, those would be better numbers... 1080p/24 that is.... ;) LOL

People who say VHS won because of porn are oversimplifying things a great deal, to put it mildly.

Here's my take on it:


Who are they really attracting with this $98 HD-DVD player?? At Wal-Mart, of all places!!

I'll tell you who: people who are cheap / bargain hunters. Do you think these same people are going to think it's a 'good deal' when they have to fork out 1/3 of the player's price for a single title on HD-DVD???

When they're staring at the $34.99 version of 300, do you think they'll pick it up and purchase it? Or will they shift their gaze to the left a little bit and see the DVD on sale for $9.99?

I think it's a smart move by Toshiba, but unfortunately for them I don't think they will get the intended results (a big boost in software sales, in this case.)

So I guess Sony bringing out a $400 PS3 is a sign of desperation as well. System isn't even out a year and it has seen so many price changes and sku changes... That's desperation! And I am format neutral! (PS3 and 360 with HD-DVD AO).


Yes, Sony dropping the price of the PS3 to $400 is definitely desperation.... I don't think any sane person would argue that. A price drop on this scale is completely unprecedented. And you don't even have to following gaming news to know that Sony is bleeding money left and right.

Here's my take on it:


Who are they really attracting with this $98 HD-DVD player?? At Wal-Mart, of all places!!

I'll tell you who: people who are cheap / bargain hunters. Do you think these same people are going to think it's a 'good deal' when they have to fork out 1/3 of the player's price for a single title on HD-DVD???

When they're staring at the $34.99 version of 300, do you think they'll pick it up and purchase it? Or will they shift their gaze to the left a little bit and see the DVD on sale for $9.99?

I think it's a smart move by Toshiba, but unfortunately for them I don't think they will get the intended results (a big boost in software sales, in this case.)

This is exactly what will happen.

As others have mentioned, this is about software sales. They can sell all the players they want, but if people don't buy the software, the format dies.

It is totally correct that Wal-Mart shoppers with a $100 HD-DVD player will look at the price discrepancy between some titles and choose the cheaper version. Plus, DVDs still get promoted with exclusives and special incentives that HD media does not yet (the lone exception has been Circuit City including their bonus DVD with the FF4:ROTSS Blu-Ray disc).

To me, one of the bigger issues against both formats is how upconversion is marketed. I see it in ads for these HD-DVD players and just shake my head. If these ads market the players as being able to upconvert your DVDs to "near-HD" quality, why in the world would the average consumer choose to spend more for an actual HD-DVD when they are being told their magic player can almost transform their DVDs into HD-DVDs? People aren't going to know that the added detail is never going to be there. Their output will say 1080i/1080p (if they even know what that means) and they will be convinced their image is now HD.

For $100, they are getting a good upconverting DVD player that also plays HD-DVDs. I just think that when a consumer is told that their DVDs are going to look like HD, there is no real incentive to buy REAL HD software...

This is exactly what will happen.

Ditto!! And if Blu-Ray good was smart they would just do another BOGO Free sale and lower there prices on players and this will be a moot point.. Although it sure is tempting to pick up the Toshiba for that price.. Hell the Extended Warr is most likely worth more than the player.... ;) LOL

I am pro Blu. Why would I want to buy an HD DVD player to support a format that I want to die? Why would I buy HD DVD titles and show studios that staying neutral or going neutral is good for sales? I'm not going to collect a player and titles for a format that I'm hoping will be dead early next year. I'm especially not going to support that format during their last ditch holiday effort to stay alive. Sure I really want Serenity, Matrix and Batman Begins in high def, but I don't want equipment or software that will likely be useless in the next year. If it comes to 3rd or 4th quarter next year and HD DVD is still around and they have some really good titles with lossless audio (that Blu doesn't have), maybe. Until then, it can die and I'll kick it when it's down.

Of course an HD DVD supporter would go Blu for $100. If I picked the wrong format in the beginning I would want to switch to the winning format if it was that cheap too.:cool:
+1

I do not believe the price of hardware will determine the outcome. The price of SOFTWARE will determine the winner.

At this time, the price of the cheapest HD-DVD player is $200 and cannot do 1080p/24. The cheapest blu-ray player is $400 (Playstation 3 40GB) can do 1080p/24 and may be used for game as a bonus. The $200 in price difference is insignificant if one take the price of the movies into account.

An average person will keep a DVD player for about 2 years or more. Most people who care enough to watch high def picture instead of regular DVD will buy at least 30 movies a year or 60 movies in 2 years. If blu-ray movies is about $5 cheaper than HD-DVD on average, blu-ray owners will be better off in 2 years ($100 better).

In the past several weeks, Sony and blu-ray deal have push many movies to be $10 to $15 cheaper than HD-DVD. As a result, my blu-ray collection is now about 2 times (58 movies) larger than my HD DVD collection (30 movies).

I am now format neutral so I do not care who will win. However, if Sony can keep their new release under $25 and the re-release in blu-ray about $20 wi9th special sale, it will win the war. Software price and not hardware price will determine the outcome.

Paven

BOGO went on both format last week or so regardless of screwed up or not.
average consumers like me dont care if an hd player can produce 1080p/24 or not who cares. People will live without seeing 1080p/24 in their home. any HD format is good to me 720p/1080i or 1080p the bottom line is the cheaper the hd player will be the more consumers will buy it. example HD DVD :D

the last time I checked even with the BOGO sales last week or so Bluray still more expensive than HD DVD.

Peter
******************
hd a2
panny bd10a
onkyo 705
polk audio rm7500
mits hd1000u
106'' diy screen

Here's my take on it:


Who are they really attracting with this $98 HD-DVD player?? At Wal-Mart, of all places!!

I'll tell you who: people who are cheap / bargain hunters. Do you think these same people are going to think it's a 'good deal' when they have to fork out 1/3 of the player's price for a single title on HD-DVD???

When they're staring at the $34.99 version of 300, do you think they'll pick it up and purchase it? Or will they shift their gaze to the left a little bit and see the DVD on sale for $9.99?

I think it's a smart move by Toshiba, but unfortunately for them I don't think they will get the intended results (a big boost in software sales, in this case.)

Wow you must have a lot of money. I envy you.
People will buy hd dvd players because it is also a good upconversion dvd player and hd dvd movies is not that expensive compare to a dvd movie. O by the way I bought my hd a2 when it was 499.99at BB and also bought my panny bd10a for 599.00 also at BB I guest thats make me cheap.

I am pro Blu. Why would I want to buy an HD DVD player to support a format that I want to die? Why would I buy HD DVD titles and show studios that staying neutral or going neutral is good for sales? I'm not going to collect a player and titles for a format that I'm hoping will be dead early next year. I'm especially not going to support that format during their last ditch holiday effort to stay alive. Sure I really want Serenity, Matrix and Batman Begins in high def, but I don't want equipment or software that will likely be useless in the next year. If it comes to 3rd or 4th quarter next year and HD DVD is still around and they have some really good titles with lossless audio (that Blu doesn't have), maybe. Until then, it can die and I'll kick it when it's down.

Of course an HD DVD supporter would go Blu for $100. If I picked the wrong format in the beginning I would want to switch to the winning format if it was that cheap too.


Funny my prediction is the other way around.

DUMB comment (porn will drive sales.) The PORN industry is focused on ONLY ONE MEDIUM and that the web.

Why would the industry want to invest time and money into a physical format, when 75% of current revenue for them comes from WWW. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy up Terabyte servers and large amounts of bandwidth to bring porn to the masses.

THis way they get it to market CHEAPER and FASTER than on a physical format.

THINK ABOUT IT.

porn swayed the industry on VHS, becasue there was no internet.

WHY would you go BLUra or HDdvd when you can go direct to joe shmos dingy bedroom and charge him by the minute, not the disc

DUMB comment (porn will drive sales.) The PORN industry is focused on ONLY ONE MEDIUM and that the web.

Why would the industry want to invest time and money into a physical format, when 75% of current revenue for them comes from WWW. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy up Terabyte servers and large amounts of bandwidth to bring porn to the masses.

THis way they get it to market CHEAPER and FASTER than on a physical format.

THINK ABOUT IT.

porn swayed the industry on VHS, becasue there was no internet.

WHY would you go BLUra or HDdvd when you can go direct to joe shmos dingy bedroom and charge him by the minute, not the disc

Did you read the topic of the thread?

VHS won because of added features and price. With high speed internet porn isn't deciding anything. VHS was a way for people to view porn in private which was not possible prior to that.

Did you read the topic of the thread?

Yes. I was giving validity to the statment/question.

PORN WILL NOT BE A FACTOR IN THIS STUPID WAR!

That is not their focus.

Yes. I was giving validity to the statment/question.

PORN WILL NOT BE A FACTOR IN THIS STUPID WAR!

That is not their focus.

Right . . . my point was the thread is not about porn on either HDM format, it was just used for comparison.

Bottom line is that between now and the end of this year the PS3 will sell over 1 million units!

Yes, this is a reactionary move on Toshiba's end. Will it be enough... I dont think so but to stay competive they should leave it at that price.

are people forgetin gthat toshiba is the ONLY company that maes hd dvd players. i mean coem on, even at $199 the average consuer is gonna see all these big names makign blu ray players and 1 hd dvd toshiba player. the average consumer is gonan look at it as a cheap peice of plastic and will just wait for all the otehr companies to lower the blu ray prices.

Bottom line is that between now and the end of this year the PS3 will sell over 1 million units!

Which, if current stats hold, will result in just slightly over 1 million blu-ray movies sold. A million PS3s doesn't mean much for blu-ray as a format, unfortunately.

Enough to keep it ahead of HD DVD? Probably. Enough to make the studios happy? Maybe/maybe not. Enough to make it a mainstream success? Definitely not.

are people forgetin gthat toshiba is the ONLY company that maes hd dvd players. i mean coem on, even at $199 the average consuer is gonna see all these big names makign blu ray players and 1 hd dvd toshiba player. the average consumer is gonan look at it as a cheap peice of plastic and will just wait for all the otehr companies to lower the blu ray prices.

We must have different definitions of "average consumer". I don't think an "average" consumer is going to notice the number of manufacturers per format. And they're certainly not going to consider something by a name brand like Toshiba to be a "cheap piece of plastic".

The "average" consumer is either not going to give a crap about HD one way or the other... or is going to see a $98/$169/$whatever player and scoop it up.

They're not going to compare a $100 machine to a $400 machine and say "Hmmm... I'll a year or two for the $400 machine to drop in price." No one plans their movie viewing that far in advance with that level of precision. They're either tempted by the player, or they aren't.

As someone who had a stint in the video distribution biz in the early 80's, I can vouch that there was plenty of porn on Beta, as on VHS. Producers "put out" on both formats back then. Porn wasn't the reason VHS won, it was PRICE, recording/playback time and the particular vendors in the recorder biz, including then U.S. CE powerhouse RCA.

-E

The reason porn was a factor in the 80s was it was the first time you could view it in the spanctity of your own home. The internet's pretty much taken over there.

You could argue that the market leans in Blu-ray's favor precisely because of price, or more accurately, heavily subsidized players. There are roughly 2 million PS3s in US homes right now, all of which were sold at huge losses. There wouldn't be even a fraction of the current install base if consumers had to pay closer to the reported $800 cost.

$98 players is the HD DVD's camp response to the PS3 in a way. Take a loss to broaden the install base, and software sales will follow. Consumers need not be so reluctant anymore, as even if one side loses, they still have either a nice little game machine, or are only out $100.

So yes, I think price is important. As does Sony. No other game system has shed 200 bills before its one-year anniversary.

Edit: Erm, I didn't mean for that to come off so pro-HD. My point is that both sides are playing the pricing game in order to bolster their install base.

Funny my prediction is the other way around.

I have nothing against you for being red or anyone else who's red (except Paramount), but how can you honestly think that? That's like saying the PS3 or 360 will kill the Wii by next year. It's just not gonna happen.

well, most of the people both sides are trying to attract now have no idea what 1080p is, nevermind 1080p/24....nevermind HDTV at all :)

but they sure know that them flat screen tvs that hang on the wall sure look cool.

DUMB comment (porn will drive sales.) The PORN industry is focused on ONLY ONE MEDIUM and that the web.

Why would the industry want to invest time and money into a physical format, when 75% of current revenue for them comes from WWW. It is a hell of a lot cheaper to buy up Terabyte servers and large amounts of bandwidth to bring porn to the masses.

THis way they get it to market CHEAPER and FASTER than on a physical format.

THINK ABOUT IT.

porn swayed the industry on VHS, becasue there was no internet.

WHY would you go BLUra or HDdvd when you can go direct to joe shmos dingy bedroom and charge him by the minute, not the disc


That is right.If I want to watch porn, the internet is the way.

I doubt the Wal-Mart factor is going to do anything, most stores only had ~30 units, here is my story from this morning:
Well, I got mine. But for the $80 I saved, it certainly wasn’t worth the hassle. It was a typical Wal-Mart fiasco, they only had 27 and they were letting everyone buy 2. They put about half in the electronics section, which they were not supposed to do; apparently all of today’s special sale items were on carts at ONE register, so I had to go into this line. When there were only 2 people ahead of me, they had 5 left; luckily those guys were only buying one. The manager was working the register, she was a: vile, subhuman, rotten toothed, border line retarded, greasy haired piece of white trash. The second guy in line asks “can I grab the DVD player”, Wal-Mart lady says “OK, folks there are 5 left… you can grab em!”. Well, you can picture the melee that ensued; I grabbed mine, but many shoving matches occurred. Was it worth it to save $80? hell no, that used to be my average Friday night bar tab! Granted I only got there 10 minutes early, but I stood in line for nearly an hour while "employee" of the month was in a mental battle with the cash register (it took her an HOUR to process ~10 people who were only buying 3-4 items each!!!). When I got out of the store, I realized the box looked like some one took a giant pair of tin snips to it right in the middle of the long edge; upon examination the player looks untouched, hopefully it was “crush” damage an not “impact” damage…

Wow you must have a lot of money. I envy you.
People will buy hd dvd players because it is also a good upconversion dvd player and hd dvd movies is not that expensive compare to a dvd movie. O by the way I bought my hd a2 when it was 499.99at BB and also bought my panny bd10a for 599.00 also at BB I guest thats make me cheap.

I'm trying to make sense of your post, but I cannot. I never implied I had lots of money, nor do I see how buying players at those inflated prices makes you cheap.....

All I'm saying is this: The people coming out in droves to buy this $89.99 player are unlikely to spend $30 on a single movie. And even if they do, they are unlikely to buy a whole bunch of them. So, in the end, this isn't gonna mean a huge boost in HD-DVD software sales.

Sorry if I offended you in any way.

Price always trumps all, maybe not for you, me or most of the other guys here but for most everyone else expensive electronics just don't cut it.

If that is the case, people won't buy MAC or iPOD.:)