Two nights ago, in the somewhat weird schedule that I have, I watched the wonderful season finale of Californication. Last night I watched the latest Dexter. Just tremendous, and so intense that I went to bed and dreamed about it. I'm not through yet - I still have Brotherhood and Weeds to watch. This got me to thinking. Has there ever been a network, at least in the HD era, running four shows at the same time with the quality level of Dexter, Brotherhood, Californication, and Weeds? I've had HBO since season two of the Sopranos, and of course HBO has had some great shows, but I don't remember a time when HBO was running four shows at once that were on a level with Showtime's "big four". That goes for any network, cable or broadcast, that I can think of. What do you guys and gals think?

i completely agree. I recently cancelled my HBO b/c i never watch it. Showtime is absolutely redic right now.:D

Yeah who'd a thunk it. Showtime was always the pathetic network that wished it could be HBO. And now even though Showtime vehicles clearly have smaller budgets, they are the only ones I find myself watching, presently.

Has there ever been a network, at least in the HD era, running four shows at the same time with the quality level of Dexter, Brotherhood, Californication, and Weeds? I've had HBO since season two of the Sopranos, and of course HBO has had some great shows, but I don't remember a time when HBO was running four shows at once that were on a level with Showtime's "big four".

Some would argue that at one point HBO's schedule of "Sex and the City," "Carnivale," "Six Feet Under," "Deadwood" "Rome" and of course "The Sopranos" (which all at least overlapped over their extended runs) was better than anything else on TV. I'd agree with that assesment. That said "Dexter," "The Tudors" and "Weeds" (not a fan of "Californication" or "Brotherhood," sorry) are quality programming on such a league of their own that nothing on HBO right now comes even close to touching Showtime's greatest. "Dexter" in particular is well on its way to becoming "The Sopranos" of this new Showtime-led of cable shows.

Showtime is really spreading it's wings and is consistently knocking 'em out of the park.

I was never a big Sopranos fan, I think Dexter is great. I'm currently not watching any of the HBO shows, I'm hesitant to cancel just yet because I did that a few years ago and missed the first season of Carnivale.

Actually I do watch Real Time on HBO so I guess I still have one thing.

Yeah, add me to this conversion group. Sho's only attraction for me years ago was Stargate SG-1, for which I thank them, despite its eventual cancellation and transfer to Siberia (Scifi channel).

Since then its been pure HBO & Starz package for me, until I discovered 'Weeds' via DVD, followed by Dexter, Brotherhood, Californication (which is kinda iffy, except for the 'R' content) and The Tudors, which I have yet to caught up with. With the Sopranos gone, Curb Your Enthusiasm's edgy teeth being replaced by dentures, and Entourage on a slide which even Jeremy Piven may not be able to avert, the only remaining draw of HBO is Inside the NFL. So currently, I'm paying for HBO & SHO.

But come January, unless some radically fresh quality programming returns to HBO in the interim, it will be shown the door and compelled to return its house key.

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

If any show compares to 'The Sopranos', it has to be 'Brotherhood'. I like 'Dexter', but consider it to be more lightweight, even considering the macabre subject matter. 'Brotherhood' paints it's characters with the same intensity of grit and realism as did HBO's mob drama, and the cast & production values are equally stellar. It's a gem that has been discovered by far too few and hasn't been given its due, IMO. Jason Isaacs' fierce portrayal of Irish mobster Michael was as Emmy-worthy as any actor's work last year yet his name was never even close to being in the mix.

Dexter is definitely a unique story that's a complete departure from anything else we've seen. Is he a good person doing bad things, or a bad person doing good things?

In Season2, Dexter appears to have gotten a lot less evil than in Season1. The idea of a psychopath as the hero (he only kills truly evil people who have killed others), I don't think it's been done before. Lets hope the writing continues to be as groundbreaking as season1. Jeff Lindsay has written 3 books on Dexter : Darkly Dreaming Dexter, Dearly Devoted Dexter, Dexter in the Dark, 3 books roughly matching the plotlines in seasons 1, 2(perhaps?) and hopefully 3.

Dexter is definitely a unique story that's a complete departure from anything else we've seen. Is he a good person doing bad things, or a bad person doing good things?
That's a bit of an overstatement. Vigilante figures, both real and fictional, have been around avengng justice for some time now. In fact, most are actually deemed to be heroes, even if their conduct is not entirely moral because they often face off against overwhelming consummate evil.

Dexter is not the first 'hero' to kill a bad guy who happens to be in a less than favorable situation near the end of the story. What makes Dexter unique however, is not entirely the pursuit of justice, but rather that he has to satisfy a continuing compulsion to kill to begin with, and that we are willing to overlook the severity of his amoral transgressions, on the basis that his conduct serves an acceptable moral purpose for society as well. Of course, these are the good intentions that generally pave the road to hell.

THIS is what truly makes Dexter so unique. Because for him, murder is more a form of self-medication than anything else. Nevertheless I won't hesitate to admit that I root for him every step of the way, despite the fact that John McLain, he ain't.

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

Sopranos, The Wire, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Entourage ftw.

Dexter is not the first 'hero' to kill a bad guy who happens to be in a less than favorable situation near the end of the story. What makes Dexter unique however, is not entirely the pursuit of justice, but rather that he has to satisfy a continuing compulsion to kill to begin with, and that we are willing to overlook the severity of his amoral transgressions, on the basis that his conduct serves an acceptable moral purpose for society as well. Of course, these are the good intentions that generally pave the road to hell.

THIS is what truly makes Dexter so unique. Because for him, murder is more a form of self-medication than anything else. Nevertheless I won't hesitate to admit that I root for him every step of the way, despite the fact that John McLain, he ain't.

I know I found myself ecstatic when in the second episode of the current Season 2 Dexter was able to kill again (not much of a spoiler considering everybody knows the lead character is a serial killer), which shocked the hell out of me since I usually frown at any glorification of murder in a dramatic series (cartoony action movies/shows are different). But you hit the nail on the head Palladin. Dexter Morgan happens to kill criminals and undesirables that society is better off without, but he doesn't do it to right a wrong or for the typical moral reasonings anti-heroes usually have (like the deaths of family members for Charles Bronson's character in the "Death Wish" movies, or the background of Marvel's "Punisher" comic book character). He does it for selfish reasons (a need to kill, to remain free, etc.) that he can't control since, as we've learned so far, his destiny and psyche were irrevocably changed due to the trauma he witnessed in that cargo container where Harry Morgan found him. Dexter is the ultimate tragic hero, unable to truly derive any joy or pleasure from a compulsion he didn't want or ask for that he's condemned to need for as long as he's alive.

Good Lord, I love this show so much its like not even funny! :)

I like Entourage, but HBO needs more than that for me to justify a subscription. HBO will get my money for the last season of The Wire in January, but I haven't seen anything else from them that is worth the $15/mo.

While I think Showtime is head and shoulders above HBO at this point, HBO is not a complete loss. I still enjoy Curb, Extras, Entourage and Flight of the Conchords. Even if these shows were off the air I would still keep my subscription just for The Wire. IMO, The Wire is far and away the best show on television and it keeps getting better!!

Dexter is fantastic. It tells anti-hero story in a CSI universe, with the flair early X-Files. In fact I haven't enjoyed a TV show quite the same way since early X-Files which I consider Dexter to be a bizarre spiritual successor to.

That's a bit of an overstatement. Vigilante figures, both real and fictional, have been around avengng justice for some time now. In fact, most are actually deemed to be heroes, even if their conduct is not entirely moral because they often face off against overwhelming consummate evil.

Dexter is not the first 'hero' to kill a bad guy who happens to be in a less than favorable situation near the end of the story. What makes Dexter unique however, is not entirely the pursuit of justice, but rather that he has to satisfy a continuing compulsion to kill to begin with, and that we are willing to overlook the severity of his amoral transgressions, on the basis that his conduct serves an acceptable moral purpose for society as well. Of course, these are the good intentions that generally pave the road to hell.

THIS is what truly makes Dexter so unique. Because for him, murder is more a form of self-medication than anything else. Nevertheless I won't hesitate to admit that I root for him every step of the way, despite the fact that John McLain, he ain't.

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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I agree that the fact that he enjoys the killing and dismemberment of villains is what makes the story unique, as opposed to the idea that he is killing bad people as the primary motive. The primary motive is the killing part not the bad people part, it just happens, he channels his hobby towards the 'correct' victims. That's the line that makes us empathize and want him to get away with it. If he was killing lil' old ladies, that would be different.

HBO has me until the final season of The Wire. I'm bummed that this will be the last one as it's an incredible series. That said, Sho is kicking HBO's ass with their original series right now. They have a solid lineup and they appear to be comfortable taking chances on new things. Somewhere along the way HBO lost their guts. I used to praise HBO for taking chances on shows nobody else would consider but I think they lost their way. I hope I find a compelling reason to keep my subscription but right now I don't see it after The Wire.

No, i totally agree with the OP. Showtime right now is on a freakin role!!! best shows, period.

I agree that the fact that he enjoys the killing and dismemberment of villains is what makes the story unique, as opposed to the idea that he is killing bad people as the primary motive. The primary motive is the killing part not the bad people part, it just happens, he channels his hobby towards the 'correct' victims. That's the line that makes us empathize and want him to get away with it. If he was killing lil' old ladies, that would be different.
I dunno if I can go along with a rule that broad. Depends on the little old lady. :D
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Palladin

Chance favors the prepared mind

I believe in a Season 1 episode (the one where he's throwing away his tools because he thinks the kid in the trunk of a car saw him kill the couple that smuggled illegal aliens) "Dexter" looks at his blood samples and remembers the last pleas of some of his victims. I could have sworn I saw an old lady among that group of Dex's victims. And let's not forget the nurse that was poisoning Harry; she was middle-age/oldish, and became Dex's first (messy) kill. The only people Dexter apparently has trouble killing are blind Caribbean men of color that spout jibberish (Season 2 premiere) but that won't be the case next time... if there is a next time. I'm Don Pardo! :rolleyes:

HBO has me until the final season of The Wire. I'm bummed that this will be the last one as it's an incredible series. That said, Sho is kicking HBO's ass with their original series right now. They have a solid lineup and they appear to be comfortable taking chances on new things. Somewhere along the way HBO lost their guts. I used to praise HBO for taking chances on shows nobody else would consider but I think they lost their way. I hope I find a compelling reason to keep my subscription but right now I don't see it after The Wire.

I agree about The Wire. Literature on television. I hope the final season is in HD, but I'll watch regardless. I still have faith that HBO will put out great shows since they have such a strong track record - many of my all time favorite shows, in fact. It is my hope that Showtime's current success will push HBO to present more great programing. Competition is good.

I agree about The Wire. Literature on television. I hope the final season is in HD, but I'll watch regardless. I still have faith that HBO will put out great shows since they have such a strong track record - many of my all time favorite shows, in fact. It is my hope that Showtime's current success will push HBO to present more great programing. Competition is good.


I agree, competition is good for us and hopefully SHO's success will get HBO off the bench. I couldn't believe they already renewed TMYLM after the dismal ratings. I happened to be one of the few that loved JFC and it out-rated TMYLM. I have a feeling Milch's production costs canned JFC but they did sign him to another show. We'll see how that goes.

SHO will carry me through to The Wire.

And let's not forget the nurse that was poisoning Harry; she was middle-age/oldish, and became Dex's first (messy) kill.

I forgot about that, wasn't it the woman who played Lt. Yar from ST:TNG?