Hi,

So I have my HC1500 and my screen test-mounted, it's time to run cables!!

I wonder how (or where) to plug the PJ power cord? I have seen people installing an outlet next to the PJ mount and plugging it there, I’m not too crazy about that option, it makes for a less clean installation and I would have to cut a much bigger hole in the ceiling. I think I will just pull the power cord into the ceiling, but then what?

My family room is on the first floor of a two story home, I think I could possibly pull up the carpet and some boards on the 2nd floor but again, then what?? Should I install an outlet box between floors and plug it there? I don’t like the idea of an outlet being out of reach (under the boards). I suppose I could hard wire the cord to an outlet in the 2nd floor but that doesn't seem right either.

How have you solved this mind boggling mystery? Where did you plug in your PJ? Any suggestions and/or pictures will be appreciated.

Thanks

Franke

In the USA there are codes that must be upheld. And the only suggestion of the ones you made above that will be to code is placing a outlet in the ceiling and plugging the projector into it.

I suggest you get an electrician to make that happen.

All other options you run the chance in the event of fire your insurance will not pay off and if a house inspection is done they would drop you or make you correct it.

This is assuming you are plugging your projector directly into the house power. Many people like to protect their projector investment by using some type of power conditioner. If you plan on using one of these post back and we’ll direct you to several threads on how to do that.

Good luck and no plugs in the ceiling please….:eek:

Actually, I have a friend who is an inspector and he indicated that all connections should be in an outlet box, that is code. Also any wires running into the walls should be UL listed, fire retardant, that is also code. But as far as a cord running between the floors, as long as it is UL listed that should be fine. My problem there is, where to terminate it on the other side.

I just haven't seen many HT installs. Two of the projectors in the office have outlets next to the PJ, and the other one the cord just goes up, I suppose there is an outlet above the false ceiling.

Franke

False ceilings are a gray area in some parts of the world. But there is no type of projector cord or extension cord that can start in one room and pass thru a hole into a confined space and then into another room to be plugged in that will pass code. Having the UL listing on the cord doesn’t make it suitable for this task. The UL rating lets you know it passes some criteria that make it a good extension cord for plugging into point A and going to point B and is considered a temporary connection.

You might ask your inspector friend to review the code in this area or simply call your insurance provider and ask to talk to someone in risk management or underwriting as to what you are covered against.

If your projector came with a long cord and that is what you don’t want to see coiled up there are ways around that with a shorter cord.

Thanks for your response. I appreciate your advice.

Installing an outlet would not be terribly difficult, but I don't want to see it. It's kind of in the middle of the room.

Are there any professional installers out there? Has everyone installed an outlet next to your PJs? If not what other options have you used?

Thanks

Franke

You can get a 25ft power cord for example from this page and it will be safe and within code, I have used in many home theater installations with no problems.
, and All have passed inspection.


http://www.cablemeister.com/Products/Power-Cords?gclid=CKTa9Iy4vI8CFQMsFQodvnnCdg

I don't know if it's to code, (probably not), but I'm going to run a new outlet and have it hidden, then have a UPS plugged into that and also have that hidden in the ceiling.

I have not decided on how to get the projector power cord to the UPS in a clean and professional looking manner yet, but probably going to try to find some sort of circular grommet type thing.

I don't know if it's to code, (probably not), but I'm going to run a new outlet and have it hidden, then have a UPS plugged into that and also have that hidden in the ceiling.


I don't know what's more shocking, that you would do this, or tell people about it on a public forum.

I've got an idea - consult an electrician. It's a lot cheaper than your house burning down.

You can get a 25ft power cord for example from this page and it will be safe and within code, I have used in many home theater installations with no problems.
, and All have passed inspection.


http://www.cablemeister.com/Products/Power-Cords?gclid=CKTa9Iy4vI8CFQMsFQodvnnCdg

That sounds like a good solution, but how do you terminate it on the other side though? It just comes out of the wall at some point and into an outlet?
Thanks

Franke

read this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=913003

You can get a 25ft power cord for example from this page and it will be safe and within code, I have used in many home theater installations with no problems.
, and All have passed inspection.


http://www.cablemeister.com/Products/Power-Cords?gclid=CKTa9Iy4vI8CFQMsFQodvnnCdg

Really? very bad idea according to NEC read this> FAQ (http://powerbridgesolution.com/faq.html) then go here (http://powerbridgesolution.com/avsforumpriceorder.html)

I don't know what's more shocking, that you would do this, or tell people about it on a public forum.



I welcome critisism, but only if it is followed with something constructive, as in, why you think it is a bad idea, or what you would do differently. Which is the entire point of this thread.

Give ideas, be a helpful member of the forums, don't just poo poo ideas with no follow-up.





Note, these items will be enclosed by a drop ceiling.

I welcome critisism, but only if it is followed with something constructive, as in, why you think it is a bad idea, or what you would do differently. Which is the entire point of this thread.

Give ideas, be a helpful member of the forums, don't just poo poo ideas with no follow-up.

Note, these items will be enclosed by a drop ceiling.

I’ll come to jon3k defense even though I’m sure he doesn’t need my help. And this is coming from someone that puts forth every possible effort to keep posts positive and when disagreeing try to explain my reasons as I did above.

In this case I posted in twice relating why the OP plans or ideas were both not wise and also not legal. Sure there are extension cords in the market place that will surpass romex wire possibly. But that is not how the National electric code sees it. And those are the rules insurance underwriters are going to look at and follow when assessing a claim or during an inspection.

Jon3k didn’t have to expound after his comments because that good information had already been posted above IMO. Personally I would have restated it again but that’s me.

We have all used extension cords in less than temporary installs but when giving advice there is only one type of advice that should be given, that being the truth along with the whole truth. And the whole truth is there is a potential for problems doing this and also it is not legal to do. Will they send you to prison for doing this? Most likely not. But monetary risk could be high.

That being said the power bridge that was linked above looks like a well suited solution for people needing conditioned power to their projectors. But as I pointed out in the other thread the setup seems rather expensive for what it really is. The only part of the setup that couldn’t be commonly found is the inlet plug, and there are sources for them.

Now the big question and the real reason the OP posted. He doesn’t like the look of an outlet in the ceiling, and possible the idea of having to thread a wire somehow up to that new outlet. I have added many outlets to existing homes and the job can be quite easy or quite hard. Every wall and ceiling is different and often you have to open them in several places to get the wire in there. Walls are not too hard to repair and repaint after punching an access hole. Ceilings with special textures can be a real pain to repair and make perfect. Then there is the look of that outlet up there. And bundles of cables coiled up etc. I don’t think a plain white outlet and cover looks so bad on a white ceiling, and if your ceiling is painted dark the cover plate and outlet could be painted to match I guess.

If the look of an outlet isn’t acceptable I wont even mention the surface mounting wireing options that are out there and will pass code.

You either have to install an outlet in the ceiling, or run a wire race across the ceiling and down the wall to an outlet you already have. You cannot run the power cord from the projector into a hole in the ceiling, or an extension cord either. I am not sure about the rules for suspended type ceiling tiles though.

I welcome critisism, but only if it is followed with something constructive, as in, why you think it is a bad idea, or what you would do differently. Which is the entire point of this thread.

You yourself said it was "probably not" code. Obviously a bad idea. So you want to know why I think it's a bad idea? Ok well let's see, building code is designed to keep people safe, by you avoiding it (by sticking your head in the sand and ignoring it) you're creating an unsafe environment that could harm you or others.

Give ideas, be a helpful member of the forums, don't just poo poo ideas with no follow-up.

I did give you ideas - I told you to consult an electrician. It's great to get advice on an anonymous forum on the internet, but none of these people know building code in your county. At some point you need to seek professional help.

I hope that was more helpful :)

Interesting discussion. There is a practical side and a legal or code side. There is no question that running an extension cord into a blind space does not meet most local electrical codes. However, in the event of a fire the insurance company would have to be able to prove that the code violation was the source or contributor to the fire. If the fire starts at say a wood stove and the inspector finds an extension cord out of place they would be hard pressed to deny a claim. On the other hand, if the cord was the source, they would probably be within their rights to deny. From a purely practical perspective, running a cord of sufficient amp capability through the wall is probably not any worse than some of the connections I have seen in legal electrical boxes. Please don't take that as advice to do so.

Interesting discussion. There is a practical side and a legal or code side. There is no question that running an extension cord into a blind space does not meet most local electrical codes. However, in the event of a fire the insurance company would have to be able to prove that the code violation was the source or contributor to the fire. If the fire starts at say a wood stove and the inspector finds an extension cord out of place they would be hard pressed to deny a claim. On the other hand, if the cord was the source, they would probably be within their rights to deny. From a purely practical perspective, running a cord of sufficient amp capability through the wall is probably not any worse than some of the connections I have seen in legal electrical boxes. Please don't take that as advice to do so.

If one assumes nothing is illegal unless you are caught then the case of the faulty wood stove causing a fire and you being paid because the extension wasn’t the cause of the fire could be true.

Most of the reason for unified codes is based in solid facts. They don’t write rules just to make life complicated. They do it to set down a standard to protect people that don’t understand things from those trying to shortcut the system. I believe in “live free or die” and everyone has the right to risk what they want as long as they are the only one involved. In the case of home wiring there are many people at risk and future owners of the home so codes should apply IMO.

If the NEC was to say ok cords are ok then they would have to put a whole new level of control on what is an extension cord. Would a 99 cent Christmas light cord be rated for in wall usage the same as a $99 contractor grade #12. both may have the UL seal of approval etc. likewise I have seen many contractors take a roll of #12 romex and make a 100 foot extension cord out of it to use in house construction. That is equally as bad an application and in that case OSHA would be the governing body and tell them no.

The bottom line is it’s not really anymore work to do it the right way. The bulk of the work is getting the wire thru the wall and ceiling. If you are going to go thru all that why not use the wire that is cheaper and terminate it in the right manor.

It boils down to aesthetics. If I were come into someone’s home theater and see a well installed ceiling outlet I wouldn’t think about it twice. But if I see a hole with a wire coming out no matter how well grommet-ed it is I would be thinking what’s up in that ceiling? Where would we pull the plug if something happened? Etc etc. :)

Really? very bad idea according to NEC read this> FAQ (http://powerbridgesolution.com/faq.html) then go here (http://powerbridgesolution.com/avsforumpriceorder.html)

Interesting link. It would be even more interesting if they weren't trying to sell something.

"Cords need ventilation to prevent heat buildup". Wow!!. You need relacore!! This website is completely full of it. Power from the street is "dirty"?
They think a little power inverter is going to do more to provide a uniform sinus wave than the mass of the grid?

It totally reminds me of the "literature" of the water conditioner someone sold my house's previous owner. All it did was cause a water leak and a foundation problem.

I'm not against power conditioning and UPSes but ours is consumer electronics not professional equipment. Or let’s just wire our houses with -48VDC and be done with it.

This article has a different take

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_cords_fixture_wires/

The point is well taken, however, that flexible cords should not be used for concealed wiring.

Now let me ask a question, what if there is flexible (or even not flexible) conduit between the PJ location and a small interconnection box (register, IDF, whatever you want to call it, a small box that can fit between studs) in another room where a peak/surge suppressor and an outlet can be installed. Would it be ok to use a properly gauged power cord then?

Thanks for the animated discussion

Franke

As to your conduit yes you can run low voltage cables thru it and no you cant run high voltage extension cords thru it. 120VAC is considered HV.

The reason many want UPS to there projectors is not for the conditioning as much as the power failure part. Sudden power downs are not good for projectors bulbs or electronics when the fans shut off abruptly.

The link you posted points out the gray areas with regards to suspended ceilings and raised removable floors I mentioned in one of my above posts. By your OP I was of the impression you had a solid enclosed ceiling.

But I would have to say it’s your install and you can do it any way you like.

I hope that was more helpful :)



Much better. :D

I know you said that you did not want a outlet in the ceiling but I just wanted to show you a picture of mine.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/507/pro4.jpg

check out panamax.com, look for their recessed outlets. They are attractive, expensive and effective.

Check this one out. It has a surge suppressor embeded in the outlet. Kind of like the panamax but half the price, and white!. The panamax is silver and twice as wide, so it would be more visible on the ceiling.

http://www.smarthome.com/4542w.html


Franke

mi bad!

TO avoid any possible ground loops, level offsets, and noise differentials, I ran an additional conduit next to the two, larger in diameter signal conduits, and used a hefty 12 gage extension cord to run power from the same 2KVA UPS that powers the rest of the hometheater system through the ceiling to the PJ. Since the power plugs would not fit in either direction through the narrower flex conduit, I cut the end off and used a standard screw one replacement plug. I made a tiny panel in the ceiling to access the 3 flex conduit ends to route cables, and have the PJ power cord folded up in there and plugged into the extension cord. I guess that if you wanted to be closer to code, you could fold the PJ power cord a little tighter and have the plug hanging just out of the ceiling panel. Or, try to a compatible replacement power connector for the PJ and plug the extension cord directly into the side of the projector. That way, you have a 30 foot power cord going straight to the protected power. But, as an electrical engineer, I am not worried about the 3 amps running through a heavy 15 amp rated connection being 'hidden' inside the ceiling.

Remember, there is no code for insurance investigators or adjusters. If there is an excuse to deny a claim (related to the actual incident or not) they can deny your claim, even if they are being irrational or illogical.

Any wiring that does not meet code can be cause for denial of a fire claim. Any "hidden" wiring must be CL-2 rated. Any power wiring must also meet local codes. You can check with your local (city or county, as applicable) inspection offices for help.

There have been a number of good suggestions made. Running a power wire through a "hole" in the ceiling does not meet anyone's code.

Franke46 -- That Leviton outlet looks interesting. If you do go that route, make sure that the wiring to the outlet, in the ceiling, meets your local code requirements (and not all electricians are correct) by checking with your local inspection offices. The installation must be legal - nothing else matters.

I did buy the leviton surge suppressor outlet and installed next to the PJ. It actually looks kind of cool with a little blue led on it.

Now if I could find a 2 ft power cord. The shortest one I've seen is 3ft.

Does anyone have anything against splicing one in the middle then soldering and covering with heat shrinking tube? To make it shorter I mean.

Franke46

I did buy the leviton surge suppressor outlet and installed next to the PJ. It actually looks kind of cool with a little blue led on it.

Now if I could find a 2 ft power cord. The shortest one I've seen is 3ft.

Does anyone have anything against splicing one in the middle then soldering and covering with heat shrinking tube? To make it shorter I mean.

Franke46

I was so relieved to read your first paragraph and so disappointed to read your last one.