surely they must have known about this for quite some time yet they're doing nothing about?

are they being arrogant, powerless or just plain stupid?

what's blu-ray doing to counter $89-99 players?
From what I've seen - nothing, zip, nada, zilch...

From what I've seen - nothing, zip, nada, zilch...

You mean in the 11 hours since the deal was posted?



Seriously... this isn't day trading...

please add another BOGO :D, hopefully on fox titles.

Seriously... this isn't day trading...

Quote of the week! Bravo, sir.

From what I've been able to gather, there aren't any "$88-$99" HD-DVD players. I've only seen one ad from Walmart that will have HD-DVD players for $98 (AFTER a $100 discount!) for ONE DAY (Black Friday)...that's not a permanent price! On top of that, it's only certain stores, NOT all Walmarts!

Blu-Ray backers aren't running around, scared of these things. Like the old saying goes: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! If anybody wants to watch HI-DEF movies on a sub-$100 player, they shouldn't expect much...

From what I've been able to gather, there aren't any "$88-$99" HD-DVD players. I've only seen one ad from Walmart that will have HD-DVD players for $98 (AFTER a $100 discount!) for ONE DAY (Black Friday)...that's not a permanent price! On top of that, it's only certain stores, NOT all Walmarts!

Blu-Ray backers aren't running around, scared of these things. Like the old saying goes: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! If anybody wants to watch HI-DEF movies on a sub-$100 player, they shouldn't expect much...

I'm sure they are not worried AT ALL! ;)

surely they must have known about this for quite some time yet they're doing nothing about?

They've known this since day 1. Look at the pricing structure they've had since launch... everyone knew damn well that HD DVD was going to be the first to $200, first to $150, first to $99.

I don't see why BD should have a knee-jerk response to this. They've known for a couple of years that this is coming... whatever plan they have is already in place.

Well with this pricing and "IF" WB goes HDDVD it would be game over Blu

You mean in the 11 hours since the deal was posted?



Seriously... this isn't day trading...
THANK YOU. Reading these forums, both sides, is making me want to pull my hair out!!

From what I've been able to gather, there aren't any "$88-$99" HD-DVD players. I've only seen one ad from Walmart that will have HD-DVD players for $98 (AFTER a $100 discount!) for ONE DAY (Black Friday)...that's not a permanent price! On top of that, it's only certain stores, NOT all Walmarts!

Best Buy's website has the A2 listed at $99, but their online store is sold out and it appears most of their stores are too.

So it looks like there will be very few at $99 anyway.

im not worried about the $99 players just that blu-ray is doing nothing to counter it

From what I've been able to gather, there aren't any "$88-$99" HD-DVD players. I've only seen one ad from Walmart that will have HD-DVD players for $98 (AFTER a $100 discount!) for ONE DAY (Black Friday)...

You're mistaken on several counts.

1. The Wal-mart deal isn't for Black Friday. It's for tomorrow.

2. Wal-mart isn't the only store. I can go to Best Buy's website right now and buy an A2 for $99 (in store pickup). Two stores within driving distance of me have it in stock.

Aren't there enough threads on this subject already?

"What's blu-ray doing to counter $89-99 players?" Answer: Nobody knows yet.

THANK YOU. Reading these forums, both sides, is making me want to pull my hair out!!

Ditto...

I'm now seeing 3 groups.


1) HD DVD fanboys, including neutrals who drift Red

2) True Neutrals who coudn't give a damn

3) BD Fanboys, including neutrals who drift Blue


1 and 3 are preaching idiocy while group 2 is just rolling eyes...


Guess what folks! :rolleyes:

;)

You're mistaken on several counts.

1. The Wal-mart deal isn't for Black Friday. It's for tomorrow.

2. Wal-mart isn't the only store. I can go to Best Buy's website right now and buy an A2 for $99 (in store pickup). Two stores within driving distance of me have it in stock.Every BB store in the Chicago area sold out early this morning...I called 9 stores. :( I also called 3 Wal-Marts and they said doors open a 7am and HD DVD players are in the back room for tomorrow's secret sale...not so secret anymore it's all over the web. I actually spoke to a manager at the Joliet IL store and she checked personally and said they had plenty on hand on skids. Plus she added some HD DVD titles will be selling for under $15. :)

$399 Ps3:)

Well with this pricing and "IF" WB goes HDDVD it would be game over Blu

I HATE these knee jerk reactions. Personally, from everything I've read, neither format is going anywhere anytime soon, if at all. Remember, even with Transformers coming out recently, Blu-ray is still outselling HD DVD. Also, HD discs are still a very small percentage of sales. Obviously Microsoft and Toshiba are doing all they can to stay in the game (or win), but the numbers of discs and players still aren't large enough to make a decisive victory either way.

IMHO I think neither format will back down and people will end up getting combo (or both players). The average consumer may jump to get the cheap HD DVD player, but I'll bet Blu-ray still won't go away (as they still have about 2 million PS3's out there and more to come when they have their price cut) and eventually that same consumer will end up getting a Blu-ray later or a combo later if they want Fox or Disney titles (and whoever else stays blu-ray).

Most "non-HD-educated" I've talked to are waiting for a winner or combo player. The cheap players may sell, but I don't think it'll be enough to win the battle (if it's winnable at all).

It's nice to know all those HD DVD owners who aren't buying software will be able to get a bedroom unit for cheap.

You know the HD DVD enthusiasts will be the ones who snatch up this old stock before it's gone.

Seriously... this isn't day trading...

:D :D

Man the price keeps on getting lower and lower. Do I hear $79? :p

Aren't there enough threads on this subject already?

"What's blu-ray doing to counter $89-99 players?" Answer: Nobody knows yet.

Common sense has no place in this forum. ;):D

You mean in the 11 hours since the deal was posted?



Seriously... this isn't day trading...

I've got to concur, finally a post that puts things in the perspective of real-time vs Internet time.

I've got to concur, finally a post that puts things in the perspective of real-time vs Internet time.

Lets squash this FUD right now about "no one knew"

This guy did, yet we kept hearing "BS, HDDVD dream"

http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1683

Sony will cut the S300 to $498 as a door buster, early bird, getcha popcorn ready sale on Black Friday.

BOGO sale!

You mean in the 11 hours since the deal was posted?



Seriously... this isn't day trading...

You are my forum hero for today

I don't know. I kinda like how all the Blu-ray pricing specials seem to be geared towards software instead of hardware(unlike HD-DVD which is the opposite). For those of us who've already invested in a player, all I want now are reasonably priced titles.

I hope they are going to have a response. I cant be the only one that is questioning the wisdom of dropping $400-500 on a blu-ray player. I think most sane consumers are expecting some kind of price drop now.

IF I was the BDA I would let Toshiba bleed out all that money. On top of that these players are discontinued and a lot of these places at least Best Buy don't have these in stock in the Bay Area. So to me this is a none issue. It is not something that Toshiba would be able to consistently offer to its customers that are looking for HD-DVD players in the future. Toshiba has to get rid of these discontinued models and what better way than to sell them for dirt cheap. I would be mad if I was an uninformed consumer and then try to go out and buy Spider Man 3, Ratatouille, & all 3 Pirate's movies. HD-DVD can't buy Disney though :)

yeaaaaah, Sony should be worried about a 1080i player going to 100 bucks /sarcasm

Sony will cut the S300 to $498 as a door buster, early bird, getcha popcorn ready sale on Black Friday.

$2 off on a player that can't do TrueHD yet?

i dont think anything will be done or needs to be done. this looks more like the retailers using the holidays to liquidate old stock, not to mention it's a one-day sale at select stores.

yeaaaaah, Sony should be worried about a 1080i player going to 100 bucks /sarcasm

But can do TrueHD. Right? I forgot according to Blu Fans, 1080i isn't HD. Ya gotta love that one!

If blu-ray gave me a 1080i player for $100 I would buy it in a second. That would allow me to wait until all specs are sorted out. Even at $200.

Why would Sony want to do anything to counter the common sense approach for mass adoption that Toshiba has taken? Hell, they've got the corner on a group of enlightened ones that insist that Sony ain't peeing on them, it's just a little rain...

The BDA is not going to do a thing. These deals in individual stores will only last for 4 hours max before they sell out their limited stock.

Ultimately, it will not create a big shift in HD DVD's favor in this format war.

Funny, everything I've read so far states that Best Buy is out of stock and that these prices are for "in stock" machines only. It's nothing more than the HD-DVD camp trying to rid itself of OLD STOCK before the A3s hit the market.

Like I said, this is nothing to be overly concerned about.



You're mistaken on several counts.

1. The Wal-mart deal isn't for Black Friday. It's for tomorrow.

2. Wal-mart isn't the only store. I can go to Best Buy's website right now and buy an A2 for $99 (in store pickup). Two stores within driving distance of me have it in stock.

The BDA is not going to do a thing. These deals in individual stores will only last for 4 hours max before they sell out their limited stock.

Ultimately, it will not create a big shift in HD DVD's favor in this format war.

Well especially when you have people on here that already have players that will be buying more. What Toshiba needs is mass adoption, of people who don't have a HD player yet, not just more fanboys buying up the limited stock. Unless of course they are giving them to people as Christmas gifts.. Hey I need one, I live in a State where we can't get the deal!!!!! :(

B&M stores have no choice but to price match in accordance with their policy. They probably will be glad to move em if they even have any to sell newer models.

It was announced long ago that Walmart would be stockpiling these for a blowout sale.

BDA doesn't have to do anything. all toshiba is doing is getting rid of the A2 stock and once that's gone, that's it. customers who bought the A2 will be looking at titles such as spidey, die hard, pixar films, pirates 3, superbad, ID4, mr&mrs smith, cast away, the rock, con air, man on fire, sunshine, rush hour 3, shoot'em up, resident evil 3, 3:10 to yuma, master and commander, me myself and irene, wow blu-ray schedule is stacked, and find out that they won't play on their durabrand quailty toshiba A2. and trust, as a wal-mart electronics associate I've seen durabrand and venture products that rival the quality of the toshiba. the player doesn't even have a display panel. "el cheapo" written all over it.

I hope they are going to have a response. I cant be the only one that is questioning the wisdom of dropping $400-500 on a blu-ray player. I think most sane consumers are expecting some kind of price drop now.

Seems about right considering they were $800 to $1,000 last year.

When I pulled up the Toshiba at the Best Buy page it said available at most stores, but after about 8 states of "unavailable" I gave up.

the player doesn't even have a display panel. "el cheapo" written all over it.

there goes your credibility.


check the vid review of the A2 here.

http://reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-hd-a2/4505-6463_7-32074340.html

I had the box in my hands. NO display screen panel.

You see the panel when you turn on the player.

To topic:
BDA have done counter messures for cheap HD DVD player from the beginning. HD DVD have always have the price card as one of its strongest card. Thats why we had so many "we won the war" from blue. Because price doesnt matter if you think that its a dying format.

If there wernt a war every HDTV owner would buy this, but if there wernt a war we wouldnt had 99$ players.

thanks, bad picture on the box.

Yeah, Blu-ray should have another BOGO with Fox and LionsGate titles. I am already sick of Sony/Disney BOGO sales, they need to rotate their exclusive studios and have FOX/MGM and LionsGate titles in BOGO now! :)

The BDA needs to lower down movie prices temp or have another bogo. It wouldn't hurt to have some $350-$400 BD players as well. I doubt will get any of that but its ok since I already got a lot of the titles I wanted through the BOGO from various studios including Fox ;)

The BDA needs to lower down movie prices temp or have another bogo. It wouldn't hurt to have some $350-$400 BD players as well. I doubt will get any of that but its ok since I already got a lot of the titles I wanted through the BOGO from various studios including Fox ;)

Wouldn't hurt to have a 199$ player either....

What is really apparent is just how desparate the HD-DVD camp is to stay afloat. I can think of no other hardware that has dropped to such extremely low prices so quickly. There is only one reason to drop prices so drastically, because you have to. That is also the reason that no other CE manufacturers are bothering to release HD-DVD players. There is no profit in them. I own both formats but I think HD-DVD is in a life boat. If WB dumps HD-DVD its over for them. If WB dumps blu-ray, then I'd say HD-DVD will definitely survive and dual format players will prevail.

WB has hinted pretty strongly that the format war is not healthy long-term. With that in mind, in addition to the delta in sales between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, I'd say WB is most likely to go with Blu-Ray. But I also never underestimate Microsoft's deep pockets and tendency to buy competitors that they can't beat any other way.

I'm guessing we will see a $299 player (limited numbers of course) sale for black friday. I might grab one of these at 99 just for the free discs.

From what I've seen - nothing, zip, nada, zilch...

haha dude its only a one day sale. then the price goes back up to $199. its mroe of toshiba doin this to counter blu rays disney moves comign out in teh next few weeks.

Well with this pricing and "IF" WB goes HDDVD it would be game over Blu

Reality check: This is NOT long-term pricing. This is clearing out stock of a previous-gen player. How much is the HD-A3 streeting for again?

Sub $100 players won't win this for Toshiba. They'll need to pay off Warner if they want to coexist with Blu-ray. I don't feel that Blu-ray has to react to this news at all. If they react at all it'll probably be with laughter at how desperate Toshiba has gotten. Seriously Bill Hunt's article is correct, what's next free HD DVD players with Cracker Jacks? It's time for Warner to go Blu exclusive and put Toshiba out of its misery once and for all.

Reality check: This is NOT long-term pricing. This is clearing out stock of a previous-gen player. How much is the HD-A3 streeting for again?

the A3 is going to 169 on black friday. I really doubt things will be going back up to any degree. You folks can keep saying that all you want, its unlikely. I can easily see the A3 at $150 post christmas.

the A3 is going to 169 on black friday. I really doubt things will be going back up to any degree. You folks can keep saying that all you want, its unlikely. I can easily see the A3 at $150 post christmas.

My wife was at BB today to get a $99 HD-A2. So, what do you mean by "you folks?"

And a one-day black Friday sale at Sears is just that, a one day sale. The HD-A3 won't be $99 through the holiday season and neither will the HD-A2, nor will it be below $200 through the holiday season, excluding some one-time sales. So, again, this is not long-term pricing.

Why would Sony want to do anything to counter the common sense approach for mass adoption that Toshiba has taken? Hell, they've got the corner on a group of enlightened ones that insist that Sony ain't peeing on them, it's just a little rain...

i'm not sure selling your products at a loss is a common sense approach. granted they do collect from all the software ppl are buying to play on the cheap players. who else besides toshiba collect royalty from HD DVDs sold.

If anybody wants to watch HI-DEF movies on a sub-$100 player, they shouldn't expect much...


C'mon bro, get real. Don't tell me you believe that 720p is not HD...................

I own a HD-D2 and it looks freakin awesome. I will be getting a PS3 as well before the year ends.

Point being, a "cheapie" 720p player will look almost as good as a 1080p player (in fact, if you have a TV smaller than 32" then you wont even see a difference).

Ditto...

I'm now seeing 3 groups.


1) HD DVD fanboys, including neutrals who drift Red

2) True Neutrals who coudn't give a damn

3) BD Fanboys, including neutrals who drift Blue


1 and 3 are preaching idiocy while group 2 is just rolling eyes...


Guess what folks! :rolleyes:

;)

:rolleyes:

I'll get one for my parents as a new upconverting DVD and if HD wins they can play the movies. I think they could care less about it not being able to do 1080p. This will make a great gift for Christmas for a bunch of folks. And in my honest opinion will not have much impact on HD disc sales.

:rolleyes:

I'll get one for my parents as a new upconverting DVD and if HD wins they can play the movies. I think they could care less about it not being able to do 1080p. This will make a great gift for Christmas for a bunch of folks. And in my honest opinion will not have much impact on HD disc sales.

I'd love to get one for my parents for christmas, but my mother is so hyped up on Disney that I don't think it'd go over well trying to explain to her that she can't get Ratatoille or Pirates on HD DVD.

I know my dad could care less. He's satisfied with SD satellite on his 52" HDTV.

please add another BOGO :D, hopefully on fox titles.
That would only take away potential sales from Warner, which is not a good idea at this point in time. The BDA needs to focus on getting more players into homes FAST.

You mean in the 11 hours since the deal was posted?



Seriously... this isn't day trading...

lol...you mean you don't expect Sony to put together a CE stand alone unit with 1080i output and no HD Audio support for $199 by next weekend? Surely you jest!

In all seriousness though, sometimes I think AVS forumers take the format wars just as seriously, if not more so, than the highly paid executives at Sony and Toshiba. One bogus rumor can cause the forums to go ablaze with new thread topics and hundreds of forumers to lose sleep until the rumor is either debunked or confirmed.

Sometimes we all need to take a chill pill (neutral colors only ;))

Brandon

instead of thinking of a counter to the $99 player, anyone ever thought that perhaps the $99 player is HD DVD answer to Spider-man 3 as BD's BOGO sale was to Transformers?

What is really apparent is just how desparate the HD-DVD camp is to stay afloat. I can think of no other hardware that has dropped to such extremely low prices so quickly. There is only one reason to drop prices so drastically, because you have to. That is also the reason that no other CE manufacturers are bothering to release HD-DVD players. There is no profit in them. I own both formats but I think HD-DVD is in a life boat. If WB dumps HD-DVD its over for them. If WB dumps blu-ray, then I'd say HD-DVD will definitely survive and dual format players will prevail.

WB has hinted pretty strongly that the format war is not healthy long-term. With that in mind, in addition to the delta in sales between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, I'd say WB is most likely to go with Blu-Ray. But I also never underestimate Microsoft's deep pockets and tendency to buy competitors that they can't beat any other way.


How many price drops on the PS3 in less than a year???? ("I can think of no other hardware that has dropped to such extremely low prices so quickly. There is only one reason to drop prices so drastically, because you have to.") and i believe sony paid tons of cash to EA to not make games for sega dreamcast, when the ps2 was releasing. sony also has deep pockets.

I think it's more of a counter to Ratatouille and Cars.

How many price drops on the PS3 in less than a year???? ("I can think of no other hardware that has dropped to such extremely low prices so quickly. There is only one reason to drop prices so drastically, because you have to.") and i believe sony paid tons of cash to EA to not make games for sega dreamcast, when the ps2 was releasing. sony also has deep pockets.

ps3's price drop isnt a desperation for BD to stay afloat, more in relation to the console wars imo.

I had the box in my hands. NO display screen panel.


Do you use a braille keyboard?

That would only take away potential sales from Warner, which is not a good idea at this point in time. The BDA needs to focus on getting more players into homes FAST.

heh, I don't care about others, I just want some more cheap discs :D

ps3's price drop isnt a desperation for BD to stay afloat, more in relation to the console wars imo.

unfortunately for sony they are both connected. the only reason software sales are higher for bd is because of the ps3. if they don't drop price they lose the console and format wars. if there was no ps3, bd would be dead already imho.

How many price drops on the PS3 in less than a year???? ("I can think of no other hardware that has dropped to such extremely low prices so quickly. There is only one reason to drop prices so drastically, because you have to.") and i believe sony paid tons of cash to EA to not make games for sega dreamcast, when the ps2 was releasing. sony also has deep pockets.

The PS3 has had 1 price drop for it's 60GB line.(599 to 499, then discontinued) (499$ 20GB model had no price drops, but was discontinued) (599$ 80GB debuted, then after 60GB's were sold out, dropped to 499$) They also created a new SKU starting at 399$, the 40GB model.


If you want to lump the SKU's together then there was exactly 200$ in price drops in 1 year time. From the 599$ 60GB to the 399$ 40GB.

When the 2 most costly components of the entire PS3 are the cell processor and the BD drive, it makes perfect sense why this console of any console could drop as fast as it did.

And realistically speaking... the 40GB model is 66% of the cost of the debuting 60GB model's price.

Comparing apples to oranges(which you seem fit on doing), the Xbox 360's current 'Arcade' price (279$) is 62% of the cost of the 449$ Elite system.

Last I checked, in terms of percentages.... 62% is the worst number to have in this situation....

Or to make it even better. The Arcade is 58% of the Elite's debuting price... ;)

From what I've been able to gather, there aren't any "$88-$99" HD-DVD players. I've only seen one ad from Walmart that will have HD-DVD players for $98 (AFTER a $100 discount!) for ONE DAY (Black Friday)...that's not a permanent price! On top of that, it's only certain stores, NOT all Walmarts!

Blu-Ray backers aren't running around, scared of these things. Like the old saying goes: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! If anybody wants to watch HI-DEF movies on a sub-$100 player, they shouldn't expect much...

Best Buy has the A2 for $99 as well.

Best Buy has the A2 for $99 as well.

LOL, in theory. Except they have no actual units.

This whole HD-A2 thing will be over in a couple of days, and then the *actual* price of ~$200 will be what we're discussing around here. I think that beyond the first week of November, BD's prospects for the season are looking pretty good. I don't expect Black Friday to be an HD dominated event, that's for sure. Once Target, Best Buy, and Circuit City reveal their deals, I would imagine we'll see Blu-ray among them.

In the meantime, the 40GB PS3 launches tomorrow, and although that might be more or less ignored around here at the moment with all the $99 hype, this SKU is going to have an impact going into the holidays.

surely they must have known about this for quite some time yet they're doing nothing about?

are they being arrogant, powerless or just plain stupid?

Why? Are you worried people that can't afford a decent player are actually going to buy lots of HD-DVDs? Folks in this demographic don't even have an HDTV.

Best Buy has the A2 for $99 as well.

I don't mean to bicker, but which Best Buy?

I couldn't find a single Best Buy in all of Oregon that even had an A2.

I'm selling BDP-S300's for 5$ a peice, but I have 0 in stock. :D No backorders, no rainchecks ;)

Ditto...

I'm now seeing 3 groups.


1) HD DVD fanboys, including neutrals who drift Red

2) True Neutrals who coudn't give a damn

3) BD Fanboys, including neutrals who drift Blue


1 and 3 are preaching idiocy while group 2 is just rolling eyes...


Guess what folks! :rolleyes:

;)

What about the fourth group of people who have chosen a side but find trolling and hysteria a waste of time? I picked Blu-ray Disc as my HD format of choice but I could honestly care less about the internet furor arising over this subject.

I don't mean to bicker, but which Best Buy?

I couldn't find a single Best Buy in all of Oregon that even had an A2.

I'm selling BDP-S300's for 5$ a peice, but I have 0 in stock. :D No backorders, no rainchecks ;)

Yes, i'd like to see how many units will actually BE available for $99. If they actually have large quantities available, then HDDVD have really boosted their stock.

However, if each store only has 2-3 units (total of maybe 10k units), then I think they shot themselves in the foot. The public perception is that anHDDVD player costs $99 now. NOBODY will be willing to pay more than that going forward. People will just wait for the next $99 sale.

If they can supply enough units, then BDA will have to respond.

Just got back from my local Walmart. They had probably 15 or 20 A2 boxes stacked up on the top of a shelf. I was really surprised that they had that many as western Colorado is not exactly a hi-def powerhouse. :D The folk in electronics didn't even know about the sale tomorrow until I asked the manager who just barely knew it was happening. :rolleyes:

There a lot of HDM people that are going to buy a PS3 tomorrow... and that price will be available for the whole Xmas + Stock everywhere, unlike the 99$ HD A2 witch will last 5 days and limited quantities. I know at least 2 peoples that are waiting just that..

Just got back from my local Walmart. They had probably 15 or 20 A2 boxes stacked up on the top of a shelf. I was really surprised that they had that many as western Colorado is not exactly a hi-def powerhouse. :D The folk in electronics didn't even know about the sale tomorrow until I asked the manager who just barely knew it was happening. :rolleyes:

I think walmart has 4000+ stores in US. Assuming 20 units per store thats 80,000.....

I'm still skeptical that they will have more than 10-20k units available TOTAL though.

I think walmart has 4000+ stores in US. Assuming 20 units per store thats 80,000.....

I'm still skeptical that they will have more than 10-20k units available TOTAL though.

The store closest to my house has 2 pallets of them. Unfortunately here in OK they can't sell them below cost (minimum markup laws), so we're stuck with $198 =(

IF I was the BDA I would let Toshiba bleed out all that money. On top of that these players are discontinued and a lot of these places at least Best Buy don't have these in stock in the Bay Area. So to me this is a none issue. It is not something that Toshiba would be able to consistently offer to its customers that are looking for HD-DVD players in the future. Toshiba has to get rid of these discontinued models and what better way than to sell them for dirt cheap. I would be mad if I was an uninformed consumer and then try to go out and buy Spider Man 3, Ratatouille, & all 3 Pirate's movies. HD-DVD can't buy Disney though :)



I would also be mad if I was an uninformed customer and then tried to go out and buy Transformers, King Kong, etc.......;)

Seriously, both formats have their share of great exclusive movies, not just blu-ray. No reason not to be format neautral.

I don't mean to bicker, but which Best Buy?

I couldn't find a single Best Buy in all of Oregon that even had an A2.

I'm selling BDP-S300's for 5$ a peice, but I have 0 in stock. :D No backorders, no rainchecks ;)

Yes, please. Put me down for 2 :)

Brandon

I think walmart has 4000+ stores in US. Assuming 20 units per store thats 80,000.....

I'm still skeptical that they will have more than 10-20k units available TOTAL though.

According to multiple sources (digital bits being one), this sale won't take place in every store. Different regions won't allow it (confirmed the by the gentleman poster above).

Brandon

According to multiple sources (digital bits being one), this sale won't take place in every store. Different regions won't allow it (confirmed the by the gentleman poster above).

Brandon

hehe...well in any case, I doubt anyone will be willing to pay more than $99 for a HDDVD player now. If they can't supply the quantities, they're actually doing more harm than good with the sales.

PR spin and Shill Hunt. Their arrogance would allow for nothing more.

You're mistaken on several counts.

1. The Wal-mart deal isn't for Black Friday. It's for tomorrow.

2. Wal-mart isn't the only store. I can go to Best Buy's website right now and buy an A2 for $99 (in store pickup). Two stores within driving distance of me have it in stock.

If you ever got off the HDM forums, you would know that BF is early this year. Stores are really worried about poor sales and are trying to extend the Christmas shopping season a few weeks.

BB had the $99 for maybe a few hours. Very limited stock and very few sold because they had no real stock on hand.

Blu-ray is running a marathon not a sprint.

Blu-ray is running a marathon not a sprint.

The problem is, there are some competitors that will start the race at mile 24 or 25 and run it at 400m speeds. Considering the failure of the PS3, they'd better start running.

Reality check: This is NOT long-term pricing. This is clearing out stock of a previous-gen player. How much is the HD-A3 streeting for again?

HD-A3 is $169 at Sears I think...
I would not be so sure that this is a limited run type deal...the price bar has been set and while it might go up again for a month or so, it just as well could come back down for the Christmas holidays...

LIP

My wife was at BB today to get a $99 HD-A2. So, what do you mean by "you folks?"

And a one-day black Friday sale at Sears is just that, a one day sale. The HD-A3 won't be $99 through the holiday season and neither will the HD-A2, nor will it be below $200 through the holiday season, excluding some one-time sales. So, again, this is not long-term pricing.

This talk makes me laugh...are you making the decisions for the B&M stores?
You have no proof to back up what you say...just guesses...that's all we have...

It's been reported that Walmart made an agreement to buy 2 million players from Toshiba...no reason why they can't or won't lower the price to $78 bucks for the A2 if it's still around in a month and then $98 for the A3.

LIP

HD-A3 is $169 at Sears I think...
I would not be so sure that this is a limited run type deal...

LIP

The $169 price from Sears is from their Black Friday ad, which has already leaked to slickdeals, fatwallet, and all the other deal sites. So, yes, it is a one day thing, and only from 5am to noon on the Friday after Thanksgiving. It helps to stay informed with the facts.

Checking Sears.com now (google cache because they're down for scheduled maintenance):
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3/consolenexus/Sears-HDA3.jpg

Price: $299

Funny, everything I've read so far states that Best Buy is out of stock and that these prices are for "in stock" machines only. It's nothing more than the HD-DVD camp trying to rid itself of OLD STOCK before the A3s hit the market.

Like I said, this is nothing to be overly concerned about.

Partially True. However Wal-Mart will be carrying the A2 for a while, and the A3 will take it's price point when it is gone. (They often do this).

Much of Wal-Mart's lower priced electronics are previous gen stuff (including HDTV's) that's how they can offer lower prices than everyone else.

Toshiba and Wal-Mart did a deal. The stock is listed in-system as a replenishable item.

For everyone else, they are clearing out inventory.

The great thing about this is that the A2 and A3 are almost identical hardware wise, with a slight edge going to the A2 concerning sound over optical. So it's not like you're buying an outdated technology as many have tried to claim.

Blu-ray is running a marathon not a sprint.

Well they better start putting in some of there faster runners at the end of this race or the Hare will cross the finish line first... ;)

For Starters:

More BOGO Free: Blu-Rays this week... and Next
Discounts on Players: From Sony/Samsung/LG etc..

Free Toaster Ovens for people that don't buy the A2 or A3... And a "good looking" hooker for the night in Vegas... :D

You're mistaken on several counts.

1. The Wal-mart deal isn't for Black Friday. It's for tomorrow.

2. Wal-mart isn't the only store. I can go to Best Buy's website right now and buy an A2 for $99 (in store pickup). Two stores within driving distance of me have it in stock.

It's not just for tomorrow, but for the entire weekend until they sell out of the A2.

It's not just for tomorrow, but for the entire weekend until they sell out of the A2.

Except they'll probably sell out tomorrow, so...

Well they better start putting in some of there faster runners at the end of this race or the Hare will cross the finish line first... ;)

For Starters:

More BOGO Free: Blu-Rays this week... and Next
Discounts on Players: From Sony/Samsung/LG etc..

Free Toaster Ovens for people that don't buy the A2 or A3... And a "good looking" hooker for the night in Vegas... :D
ill take the hooker. she BETTER be good looking! lol!

I imagine the minds at Sony and the BDA are planning a lightning strike raid on the DVD Forum's secret underground lair. Picture an Underworld like battle sequence, but with fat, bald white men.... and ninjas. Vampire ninjas.

Continue to sell more software as well as keep a steady stream of standalone and PS3 sales.

Not to mention, release a bunch of AAA titles over the next two months.

But I would love to see another BOGO with different titles this time. Everyone is so focused on the price of players but in reality, most people only need one player. 90% or more of their money will be spent on software and that is where the pricing is still too high. Drop the MSRP of BD discs $10 and the war is over.

Free Toaster Ovens for people that don't buy the A2 or A3

Well I got one for opening a bank account at Bank of the West some 10 years ago, does that count? :p

I know 20 people with LCD, and only one them will "maybe" buy one LOL.... Most of them still enjoy their free DVD+R.

This will NOT have much affects on Blu-Ray....yeah..they will sell some...just some...not like what HD-DVD fanboys hyping it LOL. Is there anything over $99 at Walmart? LOL...

I think the biggest shock to those buying these at Wal-Mart will be when they pull the player off the shelf and then head over to the $4.88 bin looking for their HD DVD movies.

"Nothing there...hmmm. Well I guess I can pick up Spiderman....what? Only Blu-ray? Fine, I'll take the Pirate movies....nope....ok Die Hard....nope....Pixar....nope....Bond...nope....Harry Potter set.....YES, it is here and it is....WHAT, the same price as the player? I think I'll just pick out 20 DVD's from the bin."

I think walmart has 4000+ stores in US. Assuming 20 units per store thats 80,000.....

I'm still skeptical that they will have more than 10-20k units available TOTAL though.

wow... if HD-dvd was such a great format, why the overstock of a2 units when a3s are on the shelves? sounds like a fire sale to me. they are lowering the price because they HAVE TO. how can they sell a3s and a2s at the same time?

my biggest problem with HD-DVD is this: the format is high definition, so why would you cripple a player so it couldn't take advantage of the format it was meant to play (1080p24). it reminds me of EDTVs - people were buying them cause they were cheaper.

i am format neutral, but i LOVE the PS3 as a player - the OSD is clean and "high tech" looking. the tosh a20 OSD (i have both) looks like an apex DVD player (cheap) and it takes FOREVER to boot up the player.

PR spin and Shill Hunt. Their arrogance would allow for nothing more.

I realize that he is pro Blu-ray and therefore not liked by the HD DVD guys (despite being pro HD DVD at one point), but the regional lock-out in some areas was confirmed.


It's been reported that Walmart made an agreement to buy 2 million players from Toshiba...
LIP

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the deal was to buy 2 million players, but it was never specified that they were Toshiba branded, and the speculation was that they were to be Chinese manufactured units. Was I wrong?

I imagine the minds at Sony and the BDA are planning a lightning strike raid on the DVD Forum's secret underground lair. Picture an Underworld like battle sequence, but with fat, bald white men.... and ninjas. Vampire ninjas.

You had to make me picture that, didn't you?

Brandon

apparently there is nothing to be done...over at the hd dvd side they are proclaiming that one must start lining up for the high demand the a2 will have. tomorow 200,00 units sold. by monday 2 million a2's sold and hd dvd the new ruler of the world. i really wish this forum could have at least some impartiality. i love the idea of lining up for tickets for a product that no one cares about and that they couldn't get rid of for the last 6 months and therefore had to go to firesale mode. apparently the avs hd dvd group is going to go out and get themselves 4 or 5 each tomorow on these while joe walmart walks on by with absolutely no interest. until there is a unified format neither is going anywhere. im gonna laugh when its cheaper ps3's flying off those shelves.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the deal was to buy 2 million players, but it was never specified that they were Toshiba branded, and the speculation was that they were to be Chinese manufactured units. Was I wrong?Brandon

Yes you are wrong, every walmart hddvd player will be the toshiba hd-a2. 2,000,000 of them. Walmart wanted a name brand and got it.

Yes you are wrong, every walmart hddvd player will be the toshiba hd-a2. 2,000,000 of them. Walmart wanted a name brand and got it.

Link?

apparently there is nothing to be done...over at the hd dvd side they are proclaiming that one must start lining up for the high demand the a2 will have. tomorow 200,00 units sold. by monday 2 million a2's sold and hd dvd the new ruler of the world... apparently the avs hd dvd group is going to go out and get themselves 4 or 5 each tomorow

lol...funny thing is I could see that happening.

Yes you are wrong, every walmart hddvd player will be the toshiba hd-a2. 2,000,000 of them. Walmart wanted a name brand and got it.

This is all I could find on the subject: http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20070425132243.html

In a bid to win the war against the Blu-ray disc (BD) format, Toshiba has started to license its HD DVD technology to manufacturers of very affordable players in

China. The first of such products were demonstrated at CeBIT, but there are more coming, as Wal-Mart has reportedly ordered two million of players at $150 each.

Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the company that runs thousands of stores across the world, has ordered, according to a news-story at UDN.com web-site, two million HD DVD players from Chinese company Yan Lucky Electronics with the total worth of $300 million. The players should be delivered to Wal-Mart before the end of next year, according to the report.



Also a google search turned up this AVS thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=836632

They list the manufacturer as Fuh Yuan, though I didn't read through til the end.

Brandon

I just got back from walmart and the customers in line for the A2 didnt know much about the format at all. I had to inform people about the 5 free movies by mail offer. I'm a blu guy but I couldnt just let them miss out on 5 free movies. I hate to see whats going to appen when they find out Disney blu-rays are not going to work on their players.

Iam a neutral supporter, and bought this player back in March for $300 so I am picking it up for my dad, I only have the blu ray because of the disney movies, the spiderman set they released recently was crap. The picture on Spidey 1 was garbage and I think it was just an up convert.

Do I have an opinion on who will win this war no, but after Die Hard is released whats gonna be the next big draw for BLU ray? Because next year the Indy series will be coming out on HD and not Blu so I wonder what that will be like for the two formats.

surely they must have known about this for quite some time yet they're doing nothing about?

are they being arrogant, powerless or just plain stupid?

They don't have to. Blu knows HD-DVD has already lost and even doing this won't get them the victory. Just wait out the storm and everything will fall into place.

Wolfie

The BDA is going to sit this out, that's what they are gonna do

They let Toshiba sell out on their A2 because they know they don't have the content for the rest of the year to compete with Blu-Ray anyway. Those players are going to stand in people's homes collecting dust because more than half of the population needs to buy a HDTV first, and by the time they have the money to buy one, Warner has already gone blu and HD DVD throws in the towel. Well at least Toshiba did the consumer a favor, they provided a rather cheap player so the loss is minimal :)

"Nothing there...hmmm. Well I guess I can pick up Spiderman....what? Only Blu-ray? Fine, I'll take the Pirate movies....nope....ok Die Hard....nope....Pixar....nope....Bond...nope....Harry Potter set.....YES, it is here and it is....WHAT, the same price as the player? I think I'll just pick out 20 DVD's from the bin."


That has to be the best line I have seen in quite some time!!! That was so funny...had me laughing...2 bad that what you said is true...I am neutral...but I really liked what you said...

I think two kinds of people will be buying this. One is people who know it is 2nd generation and are getting a unit for the bedroom, etc. And the other probably have no idea about it other then it is high def. They do not understand the formats or appreciate that they will only be able to hear the best sound over HDMI to a HDMI ready receiver. They will hook it up via component or even worse and try to figure out what all the fuss is about. I personally think only a small percentage have any idea what they are buying and why.

As a side note I checked with my local WalMart last night and they told me they WERE NOT selling it for $98, only $197. Maybe they are one of the stores that it is not available or maybe the guy was wrong. I don't know as I decided not to go. I would rather spend the $100 on new BRD. Plus I use the analog outputs and the A2 doesn't have any, so I would be limited to the optical anyway. If I was going to get a HD-DVD player it would be a better one than this or the new combo Samsung player......in the spring or sometime later next year when it goes on close out!

Nothing...Why should they when people like us are willing to pay higher prices for less features...What a Joke!!!

Is there anything over $99 at Walmart? LOL...

Yes they have a 40GB PS3 for $399, a 60GB for $499, and a BDP-S300 for $499.

Iam a neutral supporter, and bought this player back in March for $300 so I am picking it up for my dad, I only have the blu ray because of the disney movies, the spiderman set they released recently was crap. The picture on Spidey 1 was garbage and I think it was just an up convert.

Do I have an opinion on who will win this war no, but after Die Hard is released whats gonna be the next big draw for BLU ray? Because next year the Indy series will be coming out on HD and not Blu so I wonder what that will be like for the two formats.

I thought that Spielberg movies are not HD-DVD exclusive?

I thought that Spielberg movies are not HD-DVD exclusive?

They aren't. And he seems to favor BD.

They aren't. And he seems to favor BD.

So how is that guy saying Indiana Jones is coming out on HD-DVD only? Did I miss something?

They aren't.

Spielberg doesn't control every film he directed.

Certainly it appears that the Indy films will not be HD DVD exclusive (we don't know at this point)... but these blanket statements about "Spielberg's films" have no basis in reality.

And he seems to favor BD.

I see this mentioned often. And, to date, no one has been able to provide me any actual sign that he "seems to favor BD".

Yes, CE3K is coming to BD. It's a Sony controlled title, not a big shocker there. Yes, he participated on the supplements and approved the transfer. Director participation in supplements no big shocker either. He did that for the Jaws laserdisc too -- did he "seem to favor" LD?

So how is that guy saying Indiana Jones is coming out on HD-DVD only?

He's wrong. :)

We won't know what the story is until these are announced (and there's no guarantee they'll be on HD media in 2008). But, ultimately, the series is controlled by Lucasfilm and distributed by Paramount. It is its own beast in terms of the format war and could come out for either side... or both... or neither.

please add another BOGO :D, hopefully on fox titles.

yup.... right now, this is the BEST way to combat the $99 deal.

in the end, all of this fighting, the consumer comes out the winner, IMO...

What does BD have to do? They win software sales week after week! :)

What does BD have to do? They win software sales week after week! :)

Sigh.

A 60/40 split when you have 7x the number of devices out there is only "winning" in a very basic sense.

BD needs to be concerned about (a) if they can continue -- or grow -- that ratio as software volume sales increase and (b) what to do if people who actually buy movies start scooping up $100 HD DVD players.


I know people here at AVS like to crow about that software ratio and how BD is "winning" every week. My honest question: Do you think someone at, say, Disney is equally impressed with those numbers? Or do you think they're wondering why the ratio is 80/20 or 90/10?

if they can't play native 1080p media at 1080p then why bother... i've been spoiled sweet with ps3 1080p bluray movies.... I've got a discerning eye for seeing such so, 1080p is a must for me... OTA HD tv is something i have to live with for now but if it was designed as 1080p media, i'm gonna view with something capable of 1080p output...

if they can't play native 1080p media at 1080p then why bother... i've been spoiled sweet with ps3 1080p bluray movies.... I've got a discerning eye for seeing such so, 1080p is a must for me... OTA HD tv is something i have to live with for now but if it was designed as 1080p media, i'm gonna view with something capable of 1080p output...

While I personally have no issues with letting my equipment de-interlace, I understand your point.


However, also note how few people out there (outside of AVS) would even know what you're talking about. And how few of them even have 1080p displays.

That's a fraction of a percent of the audience for HD media at this point. The people buying $100 players in Q4 aren't worried by 1080i vs. 1080p.

This is where I found it, it was on wikipedia of all places. They way I found it was following a link to a picture on the rotten tomatoes website. It does mention it will be available in both formats but with Paramount being on the HD train I cant see that happening.

I do favor both but one is not better than the other, but my question is that now Sony has released its biggest titles in Spiderman whats next? Im sure disney will follow with Finding Nemo or something similiar but what else after that. The main thing I have always watched was price points no matter if the player is outdated or not the common consumer cant ignore such a thing.

here is the snip from Wikipedia.

Lucas intended to unveil the title with the first teaser trailer, scheduled for Thanksgiving (US) 2007,[41] but Shia LaBeouf announced it earlier at the 2007 MTV Video Music Awards on September 9, 2007.[53] According to Paramount Pictures executive Rob Moore, the film will be released on both the HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc formats as part of its eventual home video release

I think the biggest shock to those buying these at Wal-Mart will be when they pull the player off the shelf and then head over to the $4.88 bin looking for their HD DVD movies.

"Nothing there...hmmm. Well I guess I can pick up Spiderman....what? Only Blu-ray? Fine, I'll take the Pirate movies....nope....ok Die Hard....nope....Pixar....nope....Bond...nope....Harry Potter set.....YES, it is here and it is....WHAT, the same price as the player? I think I'll just pick out 20 DVD's from the bin."

I really think you should have more respect for people.
I was in line today for the $98 special at Walmart and since we had time to kill, we all got to talking. Most of these people were buying the unit as X-mas gifts for relatives. Everyone seemed very knowledgeable about the product and the format they were buying into....a nice group of people that got a hell of a deal. My Walmart had 16 units and they were all gone in 5 minutes.

It's funny how HDDVD fanboys say that 60/40 split is nothing because blu-ray has more players on the market. So, isn't blu-ray winning in that category as well? Why try to spin that and make it negative. And before you mention attach rate, look at DVDs attach rate. Does this mean HDDVD is doing better then DVD? Come on now. You are trying to make it more complicated then it really is. Just look at the facts and you will see clearly who the winner is.

My question is if HD-DVD players are selling for $99 now, and the $99 one apparently has everything you would ever need from a HD disc player, how is Toshiba going to convince anyone to buy future HD-DVD players at $199, $299 or higher?

Nah, just stating it how it is. Stereotypes aren't based on fiction. That's great your line had some knowledgable people. Do you think that might have something to do with people knowing about the sale (hence the line) and knowing what they are buying vs the average everyday customer? Wal-Mart's dominance in DVD sales comes from their bargain bins and discount racks, not $25 media. The average WM patron will react just as I stated.

And since Toshiba is hell bent on making sure no CE ever has an incentive to ever make a player, why don't they just rename it to Toshiba DVD?

The same way that they convince you to purchase $500 DVD players instead of the $49.

The same way that they convince you to purchase $500 DVD players instead of the $49.

That's kind of my point. There is always something in a $500 dvd player that makes it better than a $49 dvd player and that's why people buy them. Everyone is touting the fact that the $99 hd-dvd player has everything you'll need so one wouldn't need to spend more.

I guess my main point is that in electronics it's very difficult to ramp a price back up on any item once it's gone down. Unless Toshiba decides to make $99 an everyday price I'm guessing they'll have some difficulty selling players at $200 or more.

since the sales only for 1 day i dont think anyone should be to worried...i honestly think that at least 50% of all these players being sold are from people who already own an HD DVD player and are getting a second one...its the software sales that matter in the end...i guess well know in about a month howmuch affect this really had, if any.

with all the disney titles and Pirates coming out very shortly i think it shows the HD DVD camp is getting a little desperate to get some momentum...you know sony is gonna sell a ton of PS3's this holiday at the $399 price point and some of those people are bound to buy a few BD...if BD can keep up the software sales lead warner will definately go BD only...afterall, they mentioned "changing their stance" at a Blu Ray Convention if im not mistaken.

please add another BOGO :D, hopefully on fox titles.

Now THAT would be nice -- especially if it worked for pre-orders :)!

It's funny how HDDVD fanboys say that 60/40 split is nothing because blu-ray has more players on the market. So, isn't blu-ray winning in that category as well?

Not a fanboy... just a realist.

Of course BD is winning in the hardware category. Obviously, with the PS3, BD has -- by far -- more hardware devices on the market.

Why try to spin that and make it negative.

I'm not spinning it. I'm stating facts. When you have 7x more devices and are only selling ~60% of the software (60/40 split since inception, 55/45 this week), that's not great news.

Come on now. You are trying to make it more complicated then it really is. Just look at the facts and you will see clearly who the winner is.

Studios want to sell discs. Home video is a multi-billion dollar business. I'm not trying to make it more complicated than it is -- you're trying to simplify it to a 3rd grade level.

It's not a matter of looking at PS3 sales, looking at a Nielsen chart and say -- hmmmm... BD is ahead. They win! It's WAY too early in the game and too much is at stake. Only about 1 percent of the total video market is even buying HD at this point. A side "winning" with 7x more machines and 60% of the software isn't winning at all. They have a slight lead among early adopters because they're throwing thousands of PS3s every month at the problem. What happens when the PS3 well dries up?

How this lands when it goes mainstream is anyone's guess. It's not as black and white as you are presenting it. I have to believe that executives at Disney, Warner, Fox, and other companies are looking at the data a little more dynamically and projecting for future growth potential -- they aren't just looking at the pie chart in AVS and declaring BD the winner.

since the sales only for 1 day i dont think anyone should be to worried...i honestly think that at least 50% of all these players being sold are from people who already own an HD DVD player and are getting a second one...its the software sales that matter in the end...i guess well know in about a month howmuch affect this really had, if any.

with all the disney titles and Pirates coming out very shortly i think it shows the HD DVD camp is getting a little desperate to get some momentum...you know sony is gonna sell a ton of PS3's this holiday at the $399 price point and some of those people are bound to buy a few BD...if BD can keep up the software sales lead warner will definately go BD only...afterall, they mentioned "changing their stance" at a Blu Ray Convention if im not mistaken.

I agree with your first part

BUT

the big problem for Bd is that early sale creates incredible awareness which in turn increases the allure for HD DVD going into the November and December.
An average consumer may not have cared at all about HDMs 2 weeks ago, but when he hears about the frenzy over the players this weekend, it piques his interest and pretty soon he finds himself thinking that he is 'missing out' by not buying into this stuff too.
Especially when the price points fall into impulse purchase territory.

Because of this one day sale, HD DVD will have a cachet this Xmas season that Bd won't have. Bd is still tied to an over priced, under supported, and last years news, game console. Bd had its marketing shot last year. It shot its wad there. The war was supposed to be over quick after 5 times the number of PS3s landed in people homes compared to a couple hundred thousand measly HD DVD decks.
People are not going to be buying a $400 console to have a cheap HDM player anymore. That time has past.
Bd is ending the year moribund.
It doesn't offer any advanced features that compete with or trump HD DVD
It doesn't have an advantage as far as pricing
Its title selection in some ways is worse because it has the big summer sequels that were widely regarded as disappointments (save for Die Hard...but even then it only has an 'inferior' or less enthusiastic cut of the film), and doesn't have either the big new event title, or one of the few sequels that was well regarded.
It is also still missing key 'dual format' releases including Batman and The Matrix

It is simply not the 'hot' thing in this current cycle, no matter how much else (like higher bitrates) it may have going for it.

And Fox continues to postpone titles.

Its going to be a bit of a slog for Bd this season- though I don't think any traction HD DVD gains over the next few months is going to result in an insurmountable advantage.

My question is if HD-DVD players are selling for $99 now, and the $99 one apparently has everything you would ever need from a HD disc player, how is Toshiba going to convince anyone to buy future HD-DVD players at $199, $299 or higher?

The model that Walmart is selling for $98 is the HD-A2 which is their most basic 1080i player and is being closed out in favor of the newer A3 model. You bring up a good question about the future pricing of Toshiba's newer models. I would imagine that after the A2s are gone, the A3s will be sold at higher prices but will be heavily discounted.

Originally Posted by svalentine
It's funny how HDDVD fanboys say that 60/40 split is nothing because blu-ray has more players on the market. So, isn't blu-ray winning in that category as well?

Correct, more playeres and movies sold by far.

The model that Walmart is selling for $98 is the HD-A2 which is their most basic 1080i player and is being closed out in favor of the newer A3 model. You bring up a good question about the future pricing of Toshiba's newer models. I would imagine that after the A2s are gone, the A3s will be sold at higher prices but will be heavily discounted.

The A3 is available from Amazon for $250 right now. And we already know Sears (and likely other places) will have it for $169 during Black Friday.

I'm sure it'll fall to a pretty standard $199-ish price point by early 2008.

Nah, just stating it how it is. Stereotypes aren't based on fiction. That's great your line had some knowledgable people. Do you think that might have something to do with people knowing about the sale (hence the line) and knowing what they are buying vs the average everyday customer? Wal-Mart's dominance in DVD sales comes from their bargain bins and discount racks, not $25 media. The average WM patron will react just as I stated.

And since Toshiba is hell bent on making sure no CE ever has an incentive to ever make a player, why don't they just rename it to Toshiba DVD?

Stereotyping is based on bigotry and ignorance and has no place in any meaningful discussion.
I and my wife are typical Walmart shoppers. Please give Walmart shoppers their due. Anyone can go out and pay SRP on any product but it's the astute Walmart shopper that recognizes value when they see it and buys accordingly. Just who do you think is going to decide which HDM format will survive....it's going to be the Walmart type shoppers of the world.

Stereotyping is based on bigotry and ignorance and has no place in any meaningful discussion.
I and my wife are typical Walmart shoppers. Please give Walmart shoppers their due. Anyone can go out and pay SRP on any product but it's the astute Walmart shopper that recognizes value when they see it and buys accordingly. Just who do you think is going to decide which HDM format will survive....it's going to be the Walmart type shoppers of the world.

I see, so many or your previous posts are based on bigotry and ignorance by your logic.

Correct, more playeres and movies sold by far.


By far?
Sorry but a 60/40 lead in software sales does not translate into "by far".

And HD-DVD players have sold more standalone players than Blu Ray has.

Hec, Blu Ray may win after all is said and done, who knows. But atleast I don't talk myself into feeling better by having selective hearing like some do.

By far?
Sorry but a 60/40 lead in software sales does not translate into "by far".

And HD-DVD players have sold more standalone players than Blu Ray has.

Hec, Blu Ray may win after all is said and done, who knows. But atleast I don't talk myself into feeling better by having selective hearing like some do.

I'm not sorry for stating facts. Talking of selective hearing right after stating "HD DVD players have sold more standalone players", lol awesome! I prefer to look at the whole picture myself and not just a selective portion removing non-standalones which means include PS3's, HD DVD add-on's, etc. But hey, if that makes you feel better, I don't recommend stopping for you :)

I prefer to look at the whole picture myself and not just a selective portion removing non-standalones which means include PS3's, HD DVD add-on's, etc.
What's the "etc." in your comment? :confused: Also, looking at standalones does indeed give the better picture. Obviously anyone buying an HD DVD add-on is for one thing only, not so with the PS3. So including non-standalones is not really looking at the whole picture either. ;)

I'm not sorry for stating facts. Talking of selective hearing right after stating "HD DVD players have sold more standalone players", lol awesome! I prefer to look at the whole picture myself and not just a selective portion removing non-standalones which means include PS3's, HD DVD add-on's, etc. But hey, if that makes you feel better, I don't recommend stopping for you :)

Man, How could I have not included the PS3 in my arguement? Oh I know, because studios aren't either. If they were, Paramount would have never jumped over to HD-DVD, and WB would not still be neutral.

Stereotyping is based on bigotry and ignorance and has no place in any meaningful discussion.
I and my wife are typical Walmart shoppers. Please give Walmart shoppers their due. Anyone can go out and pay SRP on any product but it's the astute Walmart shopper that recognizes value when they see it and buys accordingly. Just who do you think is going to decide which HDM format will survive....it's going to be the Walmart type shoppers of the world.
So by saying 'Walmart type shoppers' aren't you just stereotyping as well? I believe so. The only time people don't like stereotyping is when it portrays a negative connotation. I was doing nothing of the sort and if you felt that way, I'm sorry. But you basically just confirmed exactly what I was stating in my original posts. Walmart shoppers are thrifty shoppers. HD DVD and BD disc prices do not fall into that category. They may get the hardware for cheap but they will scoff at the software price.
Just who do you think is going to decide which HDM format will survive....it's going to be the Walmart type shoppers of the world.
That's my biggest fear of all. It was the 'walmart type' that got Studios to release fullscreen DVD's, sometimes exclusively until the OAR educated made a big enough stink to get them to release the widescreen versions. But we still see the impact of those walmart types on the DVD format, with MAR releases continuing to take up shelfspace. Not every retailer or rental shop has shelfspace for two versions of a movie, and most times they stocked the MAR copy.

If it is walmart that decides this war, get ready for dumbed down DVD version 2 with 2.35:1 releases getting cropped to 1.78:1 to fill their new bargain HDTV's.

Yes you are wrong, every walmart hddvd player will be the toshiba hd-a2. 2,000,000 of them. Walmart wanted a name brand and got it.

Link?

Still no link? If you cannot provide a link, your post will be reported. I am sick of the baselss tripe you try to spread around here.

I agree with your first part

BUT

the big problem for Bd is that early sale creates incredible awareness which in turn increases the allure for HD DVD going into the November and December.
An average consumer may not have cared at all about HDMs 2 weeks ago, but when he hears about the frenzy over the players this weekend, it piques his interest and pretty soon he finds himself thinking that he is 'missing out' by not buying into this stuff too.
Especially when the price points fall into impulse purchase territory.

Because of this one day sale, HD DVD will have a cachet this Xmas season that Bd won't have. Bd is still tied to an over priced, under supported, and last years news, game console. Bd had its marketing shot last year. It shot its wad there. The war was supposed to be over quick after 5 times the number of PS3s landed in people homes compared to a couple hundred thousand measly HD DVD decks.
People are not going to be buying a $400 console to have a cheap HDM player anymore. That time has past.
Bd is ending the year moribund.
It doesn't offer any advanced features that compete with or trump HD DVD
It doesn't have an advantage as far as pricing
Its title selection in some ways is worse because it has the big summer sequels that were widely regarded as disappointments (save for Die Hard...but even then it only has an 'inferior' or less enthusiastic cut of the film), and doesn't have either the big new event title, or one of the few sequels that was well regarded.
It is also still missing key 'dual format' releases including Batman and The Matrix

It is simply not the 'hot' thing in this current cycle, no matter how much else (like higher bitrates) it may have going for it.

And Fox continues to postpone titles.

Its going to be a bit of a slog for Bd this season- though I don't think any traction HD DVD gains over the next few months is going to result in an insurmountable advantage.



i see what ur saying about hd dvd gettin some serious mainsteam attention...it will pay off for them but it will only SERIOUSLY pay off if they keep the price at $99...everyone now knows that they can be had for that price and if they raise the price i would count on it that it would "backlash" for lack of a better word.

even though some people hate counting the PS3 as a standalone player, which i guess its not, the fact of the matter is that it plays BD's...the fact HD DVD has outsold BD STANDALONE PLAYERS really doesnt mean much...it doesnt matter how many players they sell on the HD DVD side because only one company is benefitting from the sale of HD DVD players and that is Toshiba, that is given they arent taking a loss on the players...the thing people like Warner and every other studio is looking at is SOFTWARE SALES...thats how they make their money, unless that is they also get a percentage of money from each player sold but i doubt that happens.

i think that given the PS3 will sell very well this season, at least IMO, and even given the dirt cheap price of HD DVD players it will still, at best, come out a tie in software sales for HD DVD...AT BEST...if they really wanna put BD away then they are gonna have to sell it for $99 alllllll year...i doubt thats gonna happen...hell, if HD DVD did win out over BD there wouldnt be any money left to make selling players...their already at $99

hell, if HD DVD did win out over BD there wouldnt be any money left to make selling players...their already at $99

I see this line of reasoning come up a lot lately and it just doesn't hold any water.
No chinese player is going to compete at a $99 price point with a name brand manufacturer- but there are plenty of brands they purposefully market more upscale models at a premium.
Otherwise how do Denon, Pioneer, Krell, NAD, and others survive with sd DVD players going for $30?

If HD DVD were to definitively become the next standard in optical discs, there would absolutely be other CEs rushing in to make product. No doubt whatsoever.
Its simple minded to think otherwise.

if they can't play native 1080p media at 1080p then why bother... i've been spoiled sweet with ps3 1080p bluray movies.... I've got a discerning eye for seeing such so, 1080p is a must for me... OTA HD tv is something i have to live with for now but if it was designed as 1080p media, i'm gonna view with something capable of 1080p output...

i have a pretty keen eye and I have never been able to tell the difference one bit on any TV in any store, home set-up, anywhere.

i see what ur saying about hd dvd gettin some serious mainsteam attention...it will pay off for them but it will only SERIOUSLY pay off if they keep the price at $99...everyone now knows that they can be had for that price and if they raise the price i would count on it that it would "backlash" for lack of a better word.

even though some people hate counting the PS3 as a standalone player, which i guess its not, the fact of the matter is that it plays BD's...the fact HD DVD has outsold BD STANDALONE PLAYERS really doesnt mean much...it doesnt matter how many players they sell on the HD DVD side because only one company is benefitting from the sale of HD DVD players and that is Toshiba, that is given they arent taking a loss on the players...the thing people like Warner and every other studio is looking at is SOFTWARE SALES...thats how they make their money, unless that is they also get a percentage of money from each player sold but i doubt that happens.

i think that given the PS3 will sell very well this season, at least IMO, and even given the dirt cheap price of HD DVD players it will still, at best, come out a tie in software sales for HD DVD...AT BEST...if they really wanna put BD away then they are gonna have to sell it for $99 alllllll year...i doubt thats gonna happen...hell, if HD DVD did win out over BD there wouldnt be any money left to make selling players...their already at $99

The PS3 is going to tank this season, seriously, even at $399. I am completely format neutral and also own all 3 gaming systems, and I can't see the PS3 coming in anywhere but third.

360 has an insane lineup of games anchored by Mass Effect, which will have major mass market appeal.

The Wii is...well the Wii.

PS3 does have a few exclusive that rock, R&C and Haze (hopefully), but they're too under the radar for anyone who doesn't have a PS3 already to go out and pick one up.

The impulse PS3 buyers did their damage last year...I think you'll see plenty of PS3s on shelves all throughout the holiday season. Time will tell.

if they can't play native 1080p media at 1080p then why bother... i've been spoiled sweet with ps3 1080p bluray movies.... I've got a discerning eye for seeing such so, 1080p is a must for me... OTA HD tv is something i have to live with for now but if it was designed as 1080p media, i'm gonna view with something capable of 1080p output...

i really doubt that you could tell the difference between 1080p and 1080i unless your set has a REALLY crappy deinterlacer...

To answer the question:

They will respond and respond in kind.

One rumor is that Sony will start bundling bluray players with their XBR series of LCD TVs.

IF they can get the other CEs to do this with their brand of bluray players. HD-DVD will have NO chance, because these players will end up with the crowd of people who will WANT them and use them. Their Regza LCDs are veyr good TVs, but brands like Samsung, Sharp and Sony are all outselling them.

Another brand to try and bundle with is Vizio.

Think of the possibilities....

BOG10 maybe???

To answer the question:

They will respond and respond in kind.

One rumor is that Sony will start bundling bluray players with their XBR series of LCD TVs.
IF they can get the other CEs to do this with their brand of bluray players. HD-DVD will have NO chance, because these players will end up with the crowd of people who will WANT them and use them. Their Regza LCDs are veyr good TVs, but brands like Samsung, Sharp and Sony are all outselling them.

Another brand to try and bundle with is Vizio.

Think of the possibilities....

BR supporters are screaming that the A2 sale is an act of desperation. How will you percieve Sony's bundling?

'We couldn't sell them, so we are, quite literally, giving them away.' Following BR supporter's logic, wouldn't that cause a mass exodus of CE support as they Pioneers of the world watched their profit potential vaporize...?

What does BD have to do? They win software sales week after week! :)

I would say it's in their best interest to stay in the lead. They need to drop the price of their cheapest player to, at the very least, around $300. I just picked up a new HD-A3 at Best Buy for my upstairs tv(its only 1080i anyways) for $200 and I got to pick 2 movies right there on the spot(Hot Fuzz and Slither) and it came with two movies in the box(The Bourne Identity and 300). I still get the five free HD-DVD movies by mail. The girl behind the pickup counter said she had been selling these packages like mad since this morning.

BR supporters are screaming that the A2 sale is an act of desperation. How will you percieve Sony's bundling?

'We couldn't sell them, so we are, quite literally, giving them away.' Following BR supporter's logic, wouldn't that cause a mass exodus of CE support as they Pioneers of the world watched their profit potential vaporize...?

Considering that it's just a rumor at this point (and that Toshiba apparently has done the same thing), I don't think the majority of people would care enough to scream about it at this point.

Speaking of rumors, remember the K-Mart HD-DVD exclusive news?

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-02-2007/0004696858&EDATE=

Kmart Not Exclusively Supporting HD-DVD Format



Statement from Jonathan Magasanik, Vice President and General Merchandise
Manager, Home Electronics, Sears Holdings

HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill., Nov. 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- There have been
numerous statements in the media today, attributed to Toshiba, indicating
exclusive support for the HD-DVD format in Kmart stores.
These statements are false.
Kmart intends to support both the HD-DVD and Blu-ray platforms, and has
no plans to support either platform exclusively.


Gotta be careful with those rumors.

Brandon

Considering that it's just a rumor at this point (and that Toshiba apparently has done the same thing), I don't think the majority of people would care enough to scream about it at this point.

Speaking of rumors, remember the K-Mart HD-DVD exclusive news?

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/11-02-2007/0004696858&EDATE=



Gotta be careful with those rumors.

Brandon

I've heard they won't carry any Blu players until they hit under $250 though.

Drop the MSRP of BD discs $10 and the war is over.

Do you think studios would agree with you? Are they selling content to please you or to make money?

To answer the question:

They will respond and respond in kind.

One rumor is that Sony will start bundling bluray players with their XBR series of LCD TVs.


not a rumor they are giving away PS3s (not sure which version: listed as $499 value) if you sign up for their Visa card (via Chase) and purchase select HD tvs

http://sonycard.sony.com/sonygateway/gateway.asp?offerlink=sonycardhdtvPS3&PID=none&SPID=B7RZ&CELL=6RMQ&MSC=MO400005&AFFID=&CLICK=&CID=&PROMO=DF01

Very few $89 - $99 players were actually available. I tried to buy one from BB online, CircuitCity.com, Amazon and Crutchfield, they were all out of stock. I went to Walmart at 7:30AM and the store only had 10 with 100 people in line. I was able to easily purchase the A3 from Best Buy for $199 including 9 (yes NINE) free discs. So Sony needs to figure out how to get to $199 with 9 free Blu Rays to compete.

surely they must have known about this for quite some time yet they're doing nothing about?

are they being arrogant, powerless or just plain stupid?

This isn't a checkmate move by hd-dvd by any stretch of the imagination. Sony and the BDA will stay the course...offer bigger movies with better AQ and PQ, and not firesale their players.

Toshiba is selling players, many of them *I speculate* are going to people who already have players. I don't see this impacting attach rate very much. Toshiba is warding other CE support/player manufacturers out of the market with this type of pricing. DVD didn't drop this fast in price by a long shot, and it had the giant of VHS to compete against. Granted, it was a bigger upgrade over VHS than HDM is over SD-DVD, but DVD won out with a nice variety of players by respectable manufacturers where laserdisk which was backed by Pioneer never took off like it was intended to.

I see HD-DVD and Toshiba having some identity issues with the limited hardware support they have. They are starting to look an aweful lot like DVHS, Laserdisk, UMD, etc.. one or two CE shows. They need more CE's to establish a degree of legitimacy and these firesales will surely inhibit that from happening. They'll sell players and stuff, but not at the rate that BD standalones + PS3 sells. Give it a few months and shoppers will see JVC, Marantz, Denon, and Mitsubishi BD players. That lineup plus what BD already has makes HD-DVD look alot like DVHS.

yet a family-friendly BD player starts at half a grand!

a HD player for $99 probably has >20x the demand than one for $500. Middle class families with kids normally don't have $500 to throw around on a player. Sure, the dad wants one but the mom doesn't see the point. $99 becomes an impulse buy but $500 is something that can take months of saving for your average family. There's just higher priorities.

The HD-DVD camp has Toshiba, Samsung, LG, Alpine, Onkyo/Integra and now Venturer. They've got CE support. One could say that Blu-Ray is pretty much a Sony-only show and they'd be right given the share of Sony's players (which includes the PS3).

This isn't a checkmate move by hd-dvd by any stretch of the imagination. Sony and the BDA will stay the course...offer bigger movies with better AQ and PQ, and not firesale their players.

Toshiba is selling players, many of them *I speculate* are going to people who already have players. I don't see this impacting attach rate very much. Toshiba is warding other CE support/player manufacturers out of the market with this type of pricing. DVD didn't drop this fast in price by a long shot, and it had the giant of VHS to compete against. Granted, it was a bigger upgrade over VHS than HDM is over SD-DVD, but DVD won out with a nice variety of players by respectable manufacturers where laserdisk which was backed by Pioneer never took off like it was intended to.

I see HD-DVD and Toshiba having some identity issues with the limited hardware support they have. They are starting to look an aweful lot like DVHS, Laserdisk, UMD, etc.. one or two CE shows. They need more CE's to establish a degree of legitimacy and these firesales will surely inhibit that from happening. They'll sell players and stuff, but not at the rate that BD standalones + PS3 sells. Give it a few months and shoppers will see JVC, Marantz, Denon, and Mitsubishi BD players. That lineup plus what BD already has makes HD-DVD look alot like DVHS.

Most of the people I stood in line with this morning were buying the A2 as X-mas gifts for relatives.

Once the limited amount of HD DVD players sell out for $99, J6P will not be considering the A3 line at $299 up.

They'll wait for the dramatic price drop again, which will likely not happen.

One could say that Blu-Ray is pretty much a Sony-only show and they'd be right given the share of Sony's players (which includes the PS3).

Ridiculous. Samsung, Panasonic, Pioneer, Phillips, LG, Sharp, Daewoo and Denon all have Blu-Ray players currently in the market or have players scheduled for release within the next quarter.

i really doubt that you could tell the difference between 1080p and 1080i unless your set has a REALLY crappy deinterlacer...
No kidding. These guys and the ones who can "easily tell the difference between DD+ and lossless" crack me up.

Nothing...Why should they when people like us are willing to pay higher prices for less features...What a Joke!!!

Less features than the A2?

I really think you should have more respect for people.
I was in line today for the $98 special at Walmart and since we had time to kill, we all got to talking. Most of these people were buying the unit as X-mas gifts for relatives. Everyone seemed very knowledgeable about the product and the format they were buying into....a nice group of people that got a hell of a deal. My Walmart had 16 units and they were all gone in 5 minutes.

You kind of illustrated his point, though. Think about this, the knowledgable people you speak of weren't even buying it for themselves. You think that's coincidence? The majority of the relatives they are buying it for are just as likely to go out buying regular DVDs unless the same knowledgable (and generous) buyer either directs them where to buy HD DVDs or just buys the software for them. Obviously this isn't 100% true, but I would suggest it's the majority.

Hell, I can still remember 3 months ago my grandparents had told me several times about their new plasma TV and how great the new HD cable box looks on it. I finally go to see their setup and, lo and behold, the HD cable box was set up on the SD TV out in a different room while the regular SD Cable box was set up to the Plasma(!).

It's not a matter of looking at PS3 sales, looking at a Nielsen chart ...

I have to believe that executives at Disney, Warner, Fox, and other companies are looking at the data a little more dynamically and projecting for future growth potential -- they aren't just looking at the pie chart in AVS and declaring BD the winner.

That's funny because according to a WB rep, they seem to be doing just what you say they won't be doing...looking at the sales numbers for Q4.

People are not going to be buying a $400 console to have a cheap HDM player anymore. That time has past.

This is also funny, because that is exactly what people are continuing to do. As for the rest of your post, you've posed a lot of opinion as fact, and it's far from that. To say the rest of the year for BD is moribund and it's title selection is worse than HD DVD isn't exactly a concensus view.

Stereotyping is based on bigotry and ignorance and has no place in any meaningful discussion.

You are sensationalizing this a bit. This type of 'stereotyping' isn't based on bigotry and ignorance. What do you think executives and decision makers at big businesses do all day? They search for a market to sell a certain product to. Their decisions are based on widespread generalities and assumptions that a certain demographic of people have certain spending tendencies and they try to exploit those. So a meaningful discussion will definitely include talk of specific market segments and niche shoppers and why they tend to make the purchasing decisions they do.

Man, How could I have not included the PS3 in my arguement? Oh I know, because studios aren't either. If they were, Paramount would have never jumped over to HD-DVD, and WB would not still be neutral.

Why is it that the PS3 is either significant or insignificant based on the context of the argument? If HD DVD has so many more stand alones in homes, doesn't that mean their attach rate is horrible? But attach rate is only brought up when PS3s are counted, right? In summary, HD DVD is really winning because they sell more stand alones (ignore attach rate, focus on stand alone hardware), and when it's time to talk software sales HD DVD is really winning because they don't have as many players in homes (ignore stand alone hardware, focus on absolute attach rate)?

a HD player for $99 probably has >20x the demand than one for $500. Middle class families with kids normally don't have $500 to throw around on a player.

And do those middle class families have the spending power to affect software sales? Are they going to look to spend $25 on a HD DVD/BD a few times a month or are they looking for $10 DVDs?

Who do you think pushes more software, the $99 player market or the $500 player market? My father has a $25 DVD player. He has a collection of about 25 DVDs, most of them full-screen aspect ratio from the $5 bin. My uncle, on the other hand, has a $200 DVD player and has a collection of ~300 DVDs. It's not indicative of every consumer, but it's definitely not a coincidence either.

Brandon

Here's some news: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Forecasts/Sony/Sony_Plans_Blu-ray_Player_Price_Drop_Profile_1.2_Players_On_the_Way/1140

Pertinent parts:

Glasgow's comments came during a twice-a-year media roundtable in New York, where according to published reports, the exec said that it expected prices for its standalone players to drop by 20 percent or more this holiday

As for speculation that the company's standalone player prices could decline even further, Glasgow says don't count on it. TWICE Magazine quotes the exec as saying "I don’t expect it to go much lower than that."

Brandon

You kind of illustrated his point, though. Think about this, the knowledgable people you speak of weren't even buying it for themselves. You think that's coincidence? The majority of the relatives they are buying it for are just as likely to go out buying regular DVDs unless the same knowledgable (and generous) buyer either directs them where to buy HD DVDs or just buys the software for them. Obviously this isn't 100% true, but I would suggest it's the majority.

I love the arguements against these affordable players.

1) It's mainly current HD DVD owners snatching up the $99 players At the Manchester, NH Wal-Mart, where I visited, there were about 15 - 20 HD DVD players and three shoppers (including myself) had 2 in their carts. One man was new to HD and was buying the other player for his mother. The other shopper, a woman, was also a newbie. I was buying 2 there for gifts (bought a third the night before at BB) that will be going to people who have already seen my set-up and are quite aware of HD DVD discs. All players in the store were gone before 8:00 AM. In fact, these were the biggest sellers amongst the sale items. The Manchester, NH Best Buy had to limit one per person because of demand. The clerk told me they had sold a "crapload" of players and were quickly sold-out.

2) It's just a one-day sale. It won't matter in the long run. First, HD DVD players now account for a whopping 60% of the stand-alone market, and climbing (dual players 4%, BD players 36%). Remember the boasts from Sony that their player outsold HD DVD players after the price drop? Well, that lasted about 10 days before Toshiba reclaimed the lead. And with just a couple of weeks selling the A2's for $199 at Wal-Mart ($249 at BB), HD DVD now holds the highest market share % since early 2006. What do you think the figures will look like after $99 HD player sales at all these major retailers?

As for the "one day sale" premise, Wal-Mart has created TV ads just for HD DVD aimed at women buying Christmas gifts for their mates. These prices will be available right through Christmas, and likely beyond. We've already seen the new A3 being sold at Sears on Black Friday for $169 -- does anyone doubt there will be similar deals at Wal-Mart, BB, CC, etc?

To put it all in perspective, HD DVD has managed to stay within about 700,000 discs of Blu-Ray since inception despite being overwhelmed by PS3 sales (60/40 split in software). It seems likely to conclude that 100,000 A2's were sold at this discounted price across the US this weekend based upon # of participating stores / # of players available. That's close to 20% of the entire HD player market including both formats. AND THAT'S AFTER A SINGLE DAY! For anyone to dispute the major impact this will have is totally naive. And these prices will likely continue. The landscape will change dramatically because of this factor.

3) People buying a $100 player will not spend $30 on a movie. Another misconception. Folks are more educated than certain elitists on this board think. No shopper will spend $100 on a DVD player unless they have some notion of what it is and what it does. The HD DVD sections at these Wal-Marts were upended during yesterday's sale because all the new owners were scooping up the sale discs. Sure, some might not spend $40 for an individual title, but it seems MANY bought Transformers for $29.99 without balking at the price. And prices will eventually drop as the market grows -- pretty basic economics there.

That's funny because according to a WB rep, they seem to be doing just what you say they won't be doing...looking at the sales numbers for Q4.

You know they are! And they're also looking at hardware sales. Seems HD DVD add-ons for the 360 have outsold ALL combined Blu-Ray stand-alone players on their own! And this is an accessory that many BD folks love to claim has been languishing in sales. Combine that fact with the boom in Toshiba sales this holiday season and it may just be a no-brainer for WB.

It also is ironic that last week's sales figures show nearly all the WB titles selling better on HD DVD than their BD counterparts with significantly less hardware devices.

This is also funny, because that is exactly what people are continuing to do. As for the rest of your post, you've posed a lot of opinion as fact, and it's far from that. To say the rest of the year for BD is moribund and it's title selection is worse than HD DVD isn't exactly a concensus view.

I agree with you -- Blu-Ray still has a slight advantage in titles through the holidays. However, looking into 2008 without Paramount & Dreamworks, HD DVD seems to have the stronger line-up of exclusive new release titles BY FAR!

Why is it that the PS3 is either significant or insignificant based on the context of the argument? If HD DVD has so many more stand alones in homes, doesn't that mean their attach rate is horrible? But attach rate is only brought up when PS3s are counted, right? In summary, HD DVD is really winning because they sell more stand alones (ignore attach rate, focus on stand alone hardware), and when it's time to talk software sales HD DVD is really winning because they don't have as many players in homes (ignore stand alone hardware, focus on absolute attach rate)?

The PS3 HAS muddied the waters in this whole format war, and blame Sony for that fact. I've stated all along & I will continue my claims that the PS3 is ultimately a non-factor! The next generation of optical movie viewing will not be decided by a videogame console, end of story! It has provided Blu-Ray a short-term gain over HD DVD in software sales and nothing more. The gamer crowd needs monthly BOGO sales just to stay interested in buying more expensive movies, apparently. Sony told studios that 80% of PS3 owners would be buying BD movies -- talk about total BS -- almost 5 million players and about 3 million discs!

Everyone's been talking Warner lately, waiting for a major shift that could ultimately determine the war. With all the BD BOGO sales seemingly every month, doesn't anyone find it interesting that WB has never included their titles? You see, they are not trying to lose money just to push BD to weekly software sales -- they want a format to win on its own merit thus maximizing their own sales. I guarantee you, studio execs are NOT impressed with having to give away 60,000 discs in a week just to save face for Blu-Ray. The bottom line is profits -- the rest is simply hype.

And do those middle class families have the spending power to affect software sales? Are they going to look to spend $25 on a HD DVD/BD a few times a month or are they looking for $10 DVDs?

Again, most people wouldn't take the plunge into HD DVD with no intention of buying the discs. To think that neither format has a shot with the masses is simply abandoning any hope for either format to succeed. This is the BD arguement I just don't get! If you think the masses won't buy the discs, what shot does Blu-Ray have?

Who do you think pushes more software, the $99 player market or the $500 player market? My father has a $25 DVD player. He has a collection of about 25 DVDs, most of them full-screen aspect ratio from the $5 bin. My uncle, on the other hand, has a $200 DVD player and has a collection of ~300 DVDs. It's not indicative of every consumer, but it's definitely not a coincidence either.

I think the format that reaches the mass market is the ultimate winner. A $99player is affordable to 80% of the population or more, while a $400 videogame console might appeal to 5%. In fact, as stated above, if neither format can reach mass market price they have already failed. HD DVD is going after DVD, while Blu-Ray is still fighting an HD war in their minds.

I would consider myself the "average" guy who went out and bought the $99 HD-DVD player yesterday. Upper-middle class. I have a slightly better system then your average consumer, $400 two generation old Marantz receiver, cheap HTD speakers, 42" LG 720p set. I've been using a old non-progressive scan Marantz DVD player with my TV. I buy maybe 10 DVDs a year, but I prefer to rent 90% my titles from Netflix. What kept me from going into the HD market before? Price, at $500 for a player I just couldn't justify a new HD player when we had new flooring we wanted to install, or when I did free up a bundle of cash I'd rather blow my money on my other two hobbies golf and cigars. $199 I was close to biting, I've been eyeing the tosh's for several months now, just about t tip over the edge and buy one. Well the $99 price point pushed me over. I now have a high quality DVD player to upconvert to my TV, and if a title I want to rent or buy comes in HD well that's just icing on the cake.

I know 4 other people who bought the $99 player yesterday. I would consider all of them similar to me. All of us are tech savy. Three of us has better then average AV systems. One still uses his old 34" tube HD-TV that's about 3 years old. Three of us have 720P sets we've purchased in the past year. Zero 1080p users. One of the 4 others is still a college student so price was the main selling point for him. Of the 5 total of us who bought players 4 bought at least one new HD-DVD to go with their player, the 5th did not get any media because the selection at the store was so picked over there was nothing he wanted left to buy. I stopped at a different Wal Mart to pick up some coffee filters during lunch, walked over to electronics section and they have literally 6 HD-DVD's sitting on the shelf in 4 different titles, the titles were that picked over. They did have another 9 players sitting on a pallet (backwoods Georgia, didn't sell out as fast there). I picked one up for my brother for Christmas.

I think anyone would be fooling themselves if they did not think that this flood of cheaply priced players into the market is a very significant thing for the HD-DVD format.

HD-DVD sucks, Blu-ray's gonna win, END OF STORY!

Wow, I can do it too :)

How many price drops on the PS3 in less than a year???? ("I can think of no other hardware that has dropped to such extremely low prices so quickly. There is only one reason to drop prices so drastically, because you have to.") and i believe sony paid tons of cash to EA to not make games for sega dreamcast, when the ps2 was releasing. sony also has deep pockets.

humm let me think....
Toshiba A2 from $499 to $99 :D

I would consider myself the "average" guy who went out and bought the $99 HD-DVD player yesterday. Upper-middle class. I have a slightly better system then your average consumer, $400 two generation old Marantz receiver, cheap HTD speakers, 42" LG 720p set. I've been using a old non-progressive scan Marantz DVD player with my TV. I buy maybe 10 DVDs a year, but I prefer to rent 90% my titles from Netflix. What kept me from going into the HD market before? Price, at $500 for a player I just couldn't justify a new HD player when we had new flooring we wanted to install, or when I did free up a bundle of cash I'd rather blow my money on my other two hobbies golf and cigars. $199 I was close to biting, I've been eyeing the tosh's for several months now, just about t tip over the edge and buy one. Well the $99 price point pushed me over. I now have a high quality DVD player to upconvert to my TV, and if a title I want to rent or buy comes in HD well that's just icing on the cake.

I know 4 other people who bought the $99 player yesterday. I would consider all of them similar to me. All of us are tech savy. Three of us has better then average AV systems. One still uses his old 34" tube HD-TV that's about 3 years old. Three of us have 720P sets we've purchased in the past year. Zero 1080p users. One of the 4 others is still a college student so price was the main selling point for him. Of the 5 total of us who bought players 4 bought at least one new HD-DVD to go with their player, the 5th did not get any media because the selection at the store was so picked over there was nothing he wanted left to buy. I stopped at a different Wal Mart to pick up some coffee filters during lunch, walked over to electronics section and they have literally 6 HD-DVD's sitting on the shelf in 4 different titles, the titles were that picked over. They did have another 9 players sitting on a pallet (backwoods Georgia, didn't sell out as fast there). I picked one up for my brother for Christmas.

I think anyone would be fooling themselves if they did not think that this flood of cheaply priced players into the market is a very significant thing for the HD-DVD format.

wow 4 people.

And exactly how many movies are you and your 4 friends gonna to buy? Thats the big question.

If software prices don't decrease it doesn't matter if the players are given away for free. At $25 a disc, its still too expensive. Average movie costs needs to get down to 15-19, not the 19-30 it is at now.

humm let me think....
Toshiba A2 from $499 to $99 :D

HAHAHHAHA...of course these guys have their HDDVD blinders on. Talking sh*t about BDA being desperate with the BOGO and PS3 pricedrop when they're the ones GIVING AWAY free copies of Heroes and players at $99.

If software prices don't decrease it doesn't matter if the players are given away for free. At $25 a disc, its still too expensive. Average movie costs needs to get down to 15-19, not the 19-30 it is at now.

Go to Amazon.com - you can get a myriad of BDs and HD DVDs for about $20. I almost never buy my discs at B&M places unless it's something my girlfriend and I want to watch that night and don't want to wait for.

I stood in line for an HD-A2 today - I bought one from VE on pre-order over a year ago - and bought one for my dad and one for a friend who wanted one. Two other friends of mine bought them for themselves, and several people I talked to in line - there were probably 10 people in front of me about 10 people behind me - were buying them for themselves. I'm sure everyone has different stories about their particular Wal-Mart, but to say that "people are buying them as gifts" or "people are buying them for their own use" based on experiences at a single Wal-Mart breaks just a few basic statistical sampling rules :) It would be interesting to see how many of those 2,000,000 HD-A2s ended up as gifts for others vs. for personal use, and how many people who bought them already owned one.

If you ask me this was a very smart idea on Toshiba's part, because even if only half of these players generate disc sales for the holidays, it's going to do a lot to boost HD DVD's numbers. In turn, I do expect to see the BDA responding by slashing player prices or offering great deals on discs. As someone stated earlier in this thread, I personally find this kind of competition great, as the real winner is the consumer.

Once the limited amount of HD DVD players sell out for $99, J6P will not be considering the A3 line at $299 up.


Really, well how about an HD A3 @ $199?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8494435&st=HD+A3&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1186003898783

I will not be surprised to see when it becomes the standard price everywhere, if it's not already or on it's way to being.

Less features than the A2?



You kind of illustrated his point, though. Think about this, the knowledgable people you speak of weren't even buying it for themselves. You think that's coincidence? The majority of the relatives they are buying it for are just as likely to go out buying regular DVDs unless the same knowledgable (and generous) buyer either directs them where to buy HD DVDs or just buys the software for them. Obviously this isn't 100% true, but I would suggest it's the majority.

Hell, I can still remember 3 months ago my grandparents had told me several times about their new plasma TV and how great the new HD cable box looks on it. I finally go to see their setup and, lo and behold, the HD cable box was set up on the SD TV out in a different room while the regular SD Cable box was set up to the Plasma(!).



That's funny because according to a WB rep, they seem to be doing just what you say they won't be doing...looking at the sales numbers for Q4.



This is also funny, because that is exactly what people are continuing to do. As for the rest of your post, you've posed a lot of opinion as fact, and it's far from that. To say the rest of the year for BD is moribund and it's title selection is worse than HD DVD isn't exactly a concensus view.



You are sensationalizing this a bit. This type of 'stereotyping' isn't based on bigotry and ignorance. What do you think executives and decision makers at big businesses do all day? They search for a market to sell a certain product to. Their decisions are based on widespread generalities and assumptions that a certain demographic of people have certain spending tendencies and they try to exploit those. So a meaningful discussion will definitely include talk of specific market segments and niche shoppers and why they tend to make the purchasing decisions they do.



Why is it that the PS3 is either significant or insignificant based on the context of the argument? If HD DVD has so many more stand alones in homes, doesn't that mean their attach rate is horrible? But attach rate is only brought up when PS3s are counted, right? In summary, HD DVD is really winning because they sell more stand alones (ignore attach rate, focus on stand alone hardware), and when it's time to talk software sales HD DVD is really winning because they don't have as many players in homes (ignore stand alone hardware, focus on absolute attach rate)?



And do those middle class families have the spending power to affect software sales? Are they going to look to spend $25 on a HD DVD/BD a few times a month or are they looking for $10 DVDs?

Who do you think pushes more software, the $99 player market or the $500 player market? My father has a $25 DVD player. He has a collection of about 25 DVDs, most of them full-screen aspect ratio from the $5 bin. My uncle, on the other hand, has a $200 DVD player and has a collection of ~300 DVDs. It's not indicative of every consumer, but it's definitely not a coincidence either.

Brandon

terrific post...i think you do an excellent job with your points...its ashame that threadcrappers come over here from the hd dvd side to whine about perfectly legitmate points to counter the walmart deal. if this type of deal worked and was the business model it would have been put into place before. did dvd do this? answer no. this is obviously an extreme approach by toshiba that will keep them alive or sink them. thats the deal. and it works out for those who wanted this player cheap so its good for them. as for the larger structure of hd dvd time will tell but history says no.

wow 4 people.

And exactly how many movies are you and your 4 friends gonna to buy? Thats the big question.

If software prices don't decrease it doesn't matter if the players are given away for free. At $25 a disc, its still too expensive. Average movie costs needs to get down to 15-19, not the 19-30 it is at now.


I'm just giving anicdotal evidence contrary to the supposition that the people going to Wal Mart are ignorant masses and maybe the ones that aren't ignorant are just getting a second player.

How many HD-DVD movies will myself and my 4 friends buy? I know it will be a heck of a lot more HD-DVD movies then then zero people I know who bought Blu-Ray players yesterday. Multiply that by the 20-30 players in each of the 3 Wal Marts within 30 miles of my house.

There is numbers in masses and right now BluRay has that edge with the PS3. I'd say the number of movies the average PS3 owner buys is quite low but if you get enough of them out in the market the add up.

Surely you realize that members of specialty communities are in the great minority. I'm a member of several golfing message boards, I spend thousands and thousands of dollars a year in golf and I buy the best equipment and golf balls money can buy... but the real money in the golf isn't my top 1% of the population that golfs avidly but in the 99% of the world that golfs maybe 3-4 times a year and spends their $15 in a 15 pack of balls I wouldn't even consider hitting into the woods in my back yard. Getting cheap players into the hands of the masses IS a big deal. Getting a large foothold in a big box retailer like Wal Mart IS a big deal.

HAHAHHAHA...of course these guys have their HDDVD blinders on. Talking sh*t about BDA being desperate with the BOGO and PS3 pricedrop when they're the ones GIVING AWAY free copies of Heroes and players at $99.

Your post is amazingly short-sighted. Every deal that HD DVD runs -- including free Heroes with the add-on, free movies through rebate, and the price drop on the A2 -- have been arranged to move HARDWARE! How hard is this to understand? What do BOGO sales do for Blu-Ray other than to pad their sales figures so they can win a weekly pissing contest? Wow, they can eke out a 2% software win (without Wal-Mart figures) by giving away approximately 60,000 discs! Some victory. :rolleyes:

The Heroes deal seems to have moved close to 50,000 add-ons based on the weekly numbers -- that's 50,000 more HD DVD owners that will be buying software. As will the ~100K new A2 owners from this $99 sale. And the deals will keep coming from Toshiba and Ventura players all throughout the holiday season.

There is a price cut coming on BD players. Don't look into the HD-DVD price drop that much either. There are wal*marts, BB, CC, etc all over with these players well in stock. It was to secret of a sale and will have minimal impact. Toshiba knows they have two months to do something or it is bye bye Warner and bye bye to the format war.

I thought this was a software forum? Where si the moderator on here?

The HD-DVD camp has Toshiba, Samsung, LG, Alpine, Onkyo/Integra and now Venturer. They've got CE support. One could say that Blu-Ray is pretty much a Sony-only show and they'd be right given the share of Sony's players (which includes the PS3).

I don't see any Samsung, Alpine, or Onkyo HD-DVD players out there. I kept *what you can buy now* with *what you will be able to buy in the future* seperate in my post for a reason. Right now, this holiday season, HD-DVD has very poor CE support, and to the average consumer they looks like "Blu-Ray High Def vs Toshiba HD movie players". It doesn't look like the Sony show like it did with some of their past formats. Sony has allies now in the hardware arena. Actually, Toshiba looks alot like the Sony of the past (minus the high prices).

I don't see any Samsung, Alpine, or Onkyo HD-DVD players out there. I kept *what you can buy now* with *what you will be able to buy in the future* seperate in my post for a reason. Right now, this holiday season, HD-DVD has very poor CE support, and to the average consumer they looks like "Blu-Ray High Def vs Toshiba HD movie players". It doesn't look like the Sony show like it did with some of their past formats. Sony has allies now in the hardware arena. Actually, Toshiba looks alot like the Sony of the past (minus the high prices).

So a $99/$199 player with only Toshiba vs Sony/Panasonic/Pinoneer/Sharp with $399.99 players...you think people will care when both formats have the same amount of movies available, yet HD DVD is $200-$300 cheaper? So far, HD DVD has sold more stand alones so your theory is bunk.

Link?

No offense, but you are a nobody.

I would tend to trust Sony's Electronics President over you when he says that there won't be any price cuts anytime soon.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sonyprice110107.htm

In his defense, Sony said this about the PS3 pricecuts even when we had ads clearly showing a pricecut, and the 40GB ever coming out.

What are they doing? Why. Posting FUD on the internet. What else :)

In his defense, Sony said this about the PS3 pricecuts even when we had ads clearly showing a pricecut, and the 40GB ever coming out.

Maybe so, but it isn't smart to make a false statement that gets plastered everywhere online which in turn may drive folks away to the cheaper format now.

That's a terrible game of perception if that's indeed their intent.

Maybe so, but it isn't smart to make a false statement that gets plastered everywhere online which in turn may drive folks away to the cheaper format now.

That's a terrible game of perception if that's indeed their intent.

I agree, pretty dumb on the BDAs part.

This is just my opinion, I am format neutral, so I just hope both formats win, so I'm not out any money. But I think the main reason Toshiba decided to pick this past Friday and this past friday alone was to take away all the publicity that would've been generated by the introduction of the PS3 40GB at 399.00

Guess what folks, they succeeded, if you want proof, look at how many HD-DVD threads have started up in the past three days and then count up all the new PS3 threads started. No contest.

This was very careful planning by Toshiba even way back, when they made the deal with WalMart to sell them at a very reduced price. Okay now you have a huge majority of people in this country living with limited means and fixed paychecks, and with the market the way it is, people are being very cautious as to how they spned their money. So now you have people who have an option, buy the PS3 for 400.00 or a HD-DVD player for 100.00 and still leave you plenty of money for movies left over. It is going to be a very small percentage who actually go out and buy both HD-DVD and PS3 this chrsitmas season.

Since most people bought these for Christmas presents, it appears that not alot are going to be buying a PS3 this holiday season also. Toshiba took a very good gamble and it just might pay off big for them this Christmas season.

Meanwhile Sony is staying firm at their price point, and yes with the release of Cars and the Rat movie will help sell somne units, I think Toshiba just took a huge bite out of Sonys cheese, no matter how you slice it.

J6P islooking at christmas this year he can buy a PS3 for 400 and Cars and Ratattoiue for another 60.00. Okay he just spent 460.00 to keep the kids happy for a few hours this year. Now he's looking at HD-DVD, a couple movies (including transformers) and still has 330.00 left over for either more presents or gifts for others. It's all economics and again this is just one man's opnion, whose format neutral anyway.

Guess what folks, they succeeded, if you want proof, look at how many HD-DVD threads have started up in the past three days and then count up all the new PS3 threads started. No contest.

I would say Toshiba did succeed. Look at who is viewing each forum, on a Saturday afternoon, just minutes ago:

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/5493/avsssssg0.jpg

So a $99/$199 player with only Toshiba vs Sony/Panasonic/Pinoneer/Sharp with $399.99 players...you think people will care when both formats have the same amount of movies available, yet HD DVD is $200-$300 cheaper? So far, HD DVD has sold more stand alones so your theory is bunk.

Actually, in September, BD standalones caught HD-DVD standalones. And before the walmart sale, HD-DVD only held 53% of the standalone market vs players that are more expensive. If anything, that helps prove my point...or people just *think* bd is that much better and are willing to pay for it.

I would say Toshiba did succeed. Look at who is viewing each forum, on a Saturday afternoon, just minutes ago:

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/5493/avsssssg0.jpg

Do you think this site is of any importance in the scheme of things? OOO, there are 500 more people on a message board. That's some serious stuff Toshiba did to bring that about:)

Do you think this site is of any importance in the scheme of things? OOO, there are 500 more people on a message board. That's some serious stuff Toshiba did to bring that about:)

Plus, there is a lot more people in the HD-DVD areas on a normal day. Not as much, but always more than Blu-ray.

Ridiculous. Samsung, Panasonic, Pioneer, Phillips, LG, Sharp, Daewoo and Denon all have Blu-Ray players currently in the market or have players scheduled for release within the next quarter.

every one of those others has a single digit market share and I think we all know that.

Actually, in September, BD standalones caught HD-DVD standalones. And before the walmart sale, HD-DVD only held 53% of the standalone market vs players that are more expensive. If anything, that helps prove my point...or people just *think* bd is that much better and are willing to pay for it.

Blu-ray stand alones out sold HD DVD stand alone for a few weeks. Still, every month HD DVD sold more total then Blu-ray. Of course the 53% that you are quoting does not include the 360 AO which has sold more then all Blu-ray stand alones combined.

Do you think this site is of any importance in the scheme of things? OOO, there are 500 more people on a message board. That's some serious stuff Toshiba did to bring that about:)

The fact that there are now a whole bunch of new HD DVD owners (or now neutral)? Yes, it does in fact mean alot considering we account for a very small audience of people that buy this format. If the numbers jump that high...apparently the Wal-Mart/BB/CC deals did make an impact. Just imagine all the discs these new HD DVD owners are going to buy.

yes, the 360 AO should be counted as it was purchased with the intention of watching movies. Thus, it's a standalone in theory.

Link?

No offense, but you are a nobody.

I would tend to trust Sony's Electronics President over you when he says that there won't be any price cuts anytime soon.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/sonyprice110107.htm

If I may, I also believe there will be drastic cuts in BD players before X-mas. No links....just plain common sense. They (BDA) have to respond to the Toshiba hardball discount sales and SOON!
And BTW, I wouldn't trust anyone in Sony management.

There is a price cut coming on BD players. Don't look into the HD-DVD price drop that much either. There are wal*marts, BB, CC, etc all over with these players well in stock. It was to secret of a sale and will have minimal impact. Toshiba knows they have two months to do something or it is bye bye Warner and bye bye to the format war.

LOL!! Please tell me a Wally World, Best Buy or CC that still has these in stock so I can run and get one.:rolleyes: Every store in Phoenix was sold out of these by around 10am on Friday.

LOL!! Please tell me a Wally World, Best Buy or CC that still has these in stock so I can run and get one.:rolleyes: Every store in Phoenix was sold out of these by around 10am on Friday.

Best Buy and Circuit City in Schaumburg. Well stocked, you can call if you don't believe me. Wal*Mart in Streamwood had a TON of them. Those are the stores that I personally went into, I will not quote other people only myself. Like I said, this price drop will have minimal impact.

I thought this was a software forum? Where si the moderator on here?He's trying to figure how to do the 55 firmware updates, boil his HD DVDs and get Spiderman 3 to play on his new A-2.
Isn't that what all 50,000+ new A-2 owners are doing this weekend?
I thought it was common knowledge.

Best Buy and Circuit City in Schaumburg. Well stocked, you can call if you don't believe me. Wal*Mart in Streamwood had a TON of them. Those are the stores that I personally went into, I will not quote other people only myself. Like I said, this price drop will have minimal impact.You know what they say, as goes Schaumburg so goes the goes the world.:D

I'm just giving anicdotal evidence contrary to the supposition that the people going to Wal Mart are ignorant masses and maybe the ones that aren't ignorant are just getting a second player.


How many more movies will you buy with TWO players over ONE? I see you spending money on hardware that takes away from your disposable income to buy more movies. Not the customer that Toshiba really wants...

Best Buy and Circuit City in Schaumburg. Well stocked, you can call if you don't believe me. Wal*Mart in Streamwood had a TON of them. Those are the stores that I personally went into, I will not quote other people only myself. Like I said, this price drop will have minimal impact.


Just called buddy and they are sold out since yesterday of the A2 and the A3 at $199 has been sold out since around noon today(at least at the Best Buy on 900 East Golf Road in Schaumburg Illinois). I'm not going to worry about checking the other stores because you were full of it with the Best Buy store. You can also check online at this store and see that they are sold out. I'm sure checking the CC store in Schaumburg wil turn up the exact results.

The following is from a dailytech (pro microsoft site) blog, not a news article. Just some anecdotal evidence from the blogger (and some users) about the actual demand in their respective areas:

http://www.dailytech.com/No+Lines+to+Get+the+98+HD+DVD+Player+at+the+Local+WalMart/article9512.htm

DailyTech reported yesterday that Wal-Mart was running a secret sale and one of the items in the sale would be the Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player for a mere $98.87. I recall going to my local Wal-Mart to get my Wii last year when they announced a shipment was coming in.

Wal-Mart had barriers set up outside and seats inside to keep the geek throngs from messing up the normal folks’ day that just needed some milk. I showed up at Wal-Mart this morning expecting to see lines of black-Friday proportions out front behind barriers and lines of people fighting to get their hands on the HD DVD players.

There were exactly no people waiting to buy the $98 HD DVD player. Several Wal-Mart employees were leaning on the display of 20 HD-A2 DVD players, all they had for the secret sale. While I stood there waiting for the Wal-Mart employees to get off the display so I could grab one I realized one of the guys seemed to be talking another shopper standing there into buying one of the players, repeatedly mentioning how good a deal it was.

The fact that people weren’t lined up in droves was frankly surprising to me. I wondered what did that mean. Does it mean that the Wal-Mart secret sale was just too secret? On the other hand, does it mean that even at under $100 people still aren’t willing to jump on the HD DVD bandwagon.


Just some interesting tidbits.

Brandon

Mirrors my experience. No line of people, plenty of boxes available.

The following is from a dailytech (pro microsoft site) blog, not a news article. Just some anecdotal evidence from the blogger (and some users) about the actual demand in their respective areas:

http://www.dailytech.com/No+Lines+to+Get+the+98+HD+DVD+Player+at+the+Local+WalMart/article9512.htm



Just some interesting tidbits.

Brandon

I think most people were interested in the 50" plasma or the $368 notebook computer.

I would say Toshiba did succeed. Look at who is viewing each forum, on a Saturday afternoon, just minutes ago:

http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/5493/avsssssg0.jpg

All the new HDDVD owners are on the forums trying to get firmware help, the new PS3 owners ar watching Spiderman 3. :eek:

Sure is weird all these reports of no sell out when all the Walmarts in Phoenix were sold out in 20 minutes and all had many more people in line than units in stock. I guess Phoenix is the only place in the country where people like watching high def for alot less.:rolleyes:

Please remove your foot from your mouth at any time :)

Please remove your foot from your mouth at any time :)

lol, that is pretty funny!

Please remove your foot from your mouth at any time :)

What store and at what time was this picture taken. Please do tell?:rolleyes:

Well if there were lines to buy these puppies I don't think there would have been time to take a snap shot... ;)

What store and at what time was this picture taken. Please do tell?:rolleyes:

11:00 AM on Saturday morning. Hopewell, NY.

Actually now that I look it was 9:52AM. This store is open 24 hours. No apology necessary. Please carry on.

If I may, I also believe there will be drastic cuts in BD players before X-mas. No links....just plain common sense. They (BDA) have to respond to the Toshiba hardball discount sales and SOON!
And BTW, I wouldn't trust anyone in Sony management.

bad strategic move IMO.

Toshiba and Sony are the only 2 CE companies willing to subsidize a player. The other BD manufactuers have ZERO incentive to do so unless Sony subsidizes their players for them.

If Sony does a $99 player all the other BD parties will have players they can't sell and will be alienated. They'd go neutral very soon after that; I can guarantee it! Heck, 2 have already!

Toshiba doesn't have that problem, at least not right now. Even at a $99 HD-A2's price, I bet Toshiba is losing less per unit than Sony on every PS3 sold!!

Well if there were lines to buy these puppies I don't think there would have been time to take a snap shot... ;)

I could have taken a similar pic at 8:15 Friday morning. I got front row parking in an empty lot. There were no lines, no rush, and almost no one in the store. That being said, I think we've got different levels of HD tech sophistication from consumers in different areas. And we should remember that we saw a sale that was ultimately perpetuated by internet info rather than print, TV, or radio advertising.

The sale was called "secret", and for all intent and purpose it was for areas with a low concentration of the internet-savvy. And it appears that it was far more "secret" for the Wal-Mart employees in my area than it was for me. Yesterday, I saw no price markers for the Toshiba HD-A2 or the $350 Acer laptop. There was just a cart with product on it and no $14.99 HD DVD's were to be found. I stopped in today to ask about the latter and the electronics department staff were more than a little miffed that they had to hear about the "secret sale" from the consumer rather than their employer.

However, regardless of how long it took, the A2 sold out. The A3 has been a substitute for a ton of on-line and in-store orders. That's a lot of players in consumer hands right now. Some of those will be given as gifts this Xmas and some of those purchases are up on eBay right now. But still, that's a lot of players being used today, including mine.

What does Blu-Ray need to do in response? Well, first, they need to push retailers to lower the prices on their "catalogue" titles. Take, for example, the number of Kubrick titles we've seen released in the last week or so. From all accounts, "2001" is a reference-level release. But it's still a movie that's been released multiple times over the years. At $24.99, there's no way I'm going near it regardless of how great the PQ is. At $14.99, it's a must-buy today. I spent $19.98 on "The Patriot". Money well-spent IMHO, but a $14.99 price point is where it should be realistically sans "sale".

Going forward, new-releases at $24.99 and catalogue titles at $14.99 would be a great strategy. HD DVD might counter with like price drops, but the fact is that the majority of major first-releases end up on Blu-Ray. Regular DVD has long been far overpriced and, right now, both HD camps are piggybacking on those price points. If Blu-Ray produced new-release price points that were able to compete with SD DVD prices, I think we'd see another evolution in this format war.

Its time for the BDA to announce that HDDVD is dead again. That'll do the trick.

Actually now that I look it was 9:52AM. This store is open 24 hours. No apology necessary. Please carry on.

No apology needs to be given. I'm sure some stores had them until around noon on Saturday(at least the stores in smaller areas). I know the stores here in Phoenix(at least the six I called) all had big lines that had them gone in twenty minutes. I know I didn't get one but I did get an A3 at the Best Buy deal.

There is nothing Sony can do really. They are shackled by pricing. If they lower it too much they will lose money. If you were confident that it would win the war then you would do it but they don't have the balls to do it. This is HD-DVD's big time to shine in the holidays 2007.

bad strategic move IMO.

Toshiba and Sony are the only 2 CE companies willing to subsidize a player. The other BD manufactuers have ZERO incentive to do so unless Sony subsidizes their players for them.

If Sony does a $99 player all the other BD parties will have players they can't sell and will be alienated. They'd go neutral very soon after that; I can guarantee it! Heck, 2 have already!

Toshiba doesn't have that problem, at least not right now. Even at a $99 HD-A2's price, I bet Toshiba is losing less per unit than Sony on every PS3 sold!!

Oh crap! Sony should instead raise their prices on BD players then, just so they don't lose those other hardware manufacturers to HD-DVD! I think $50,000 per player would be a strategically sound pricepoint. Sony listen up right now: DO NOT ALIENATE YOUR OTHER PARTNERS SO THAT THEY TURN TO HD-DVD HARDWARE TO MAKE GARGANTUAN PROFITS ON <$90 HD-DVD PLAYERS!

Please remove your foot from your mouth at any time :)

Wow. Where was that at? I guess certain markets didn't get as much ad coverage or something. Here in S.FL they talked about it on the news at night and in the morning. I went at about &;00 and was about 20th in line (that turned to 100+) and got one of 30 players. They were one per customer and several people left with a frown.

There was almost no software.

They got about 60 laptops, and people were getting seconds of those. It was split about 50/50 laptop/hd-dvd and I don't think anyone ahead of me in line left without an A2.

I wanted two more, but I wouldn't be a jerk and take more than one while others were still waiting to leave empty handed. Although according to ebay some people did manage that.

I'm hoping they'll redistribute some of that leftover stock to other store and I'll get another chance.

Sorry for this being in the Blu forum, but I saw your pic and got jealous.

Yes, very small selection of media in our closest store, for both bluray and hd dvd. Certainly in comparison to aisle upon aisle of DVDs. They did have some mini displays near the checkouts for BR and DVD versions of Spidy3 and the trilogy. Probably snags those who have a PS3.

There is nothing Sony can do really. They are shackled by pricing. If they lower it too much they will lose money. If you were confident that it would win the war then you would do it but they don't have the balls to do it. This is HD-DVD's big time to shine in the holidays 2007.

They are already losing a bunch on every PS3 sold so I wouldn't say they don't have the balls to do it but I do wonder just how low they are willing to go. I'll go out on a limb and say that they do have the balls and it's just a matter of days before we see just how big those balls are.;)

I'm hoping they'll redistribute some of that leftover stock to other store and I'll get another chance.

Sorry for this being in the Blu forum, but I saw your pic and got jealous.


If those were still there on Saturday afternoon then the Walmart folks I talked to at my local stores were full of it because they said it was sold out every where by noon Saturday. Do Walmart people even have access to check stock levels on a nationwide level? I wouldn't think Wallyworld would trust low level clerks with this marketing/sales data.

Just more acts of desparation by the red-faced hddvd camp !!!

I guess paying out hundreds of millions to Paramount for limited time exclusivity isn't working out so well !!!

Anyway, if you cant sell your crappy hddvd product, you might as well nearly give 'em away !!!

Plenty were here at my local WallyWorld too. Many of these will be given as XMAS gifts, and when recipients see how limited the hddvd line-up is, have trouble with the poor reliability of these units, and realize how Blu-Ray is better on all fronts, there will be plenty of open-box returns and Goodwill donations come January.

Hope the negative experiece of hddvd ownership doesn't turn them off to High Def programing in general.

The picture on Spidey 1 was garbage and I think it was just an up convert.HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that was a funny one! :rolleyes:

Other than a bit of aliasing in some difficult areas and the whites looking a little hot, it looked great on my 46XBR4. A sizeable improvement over the SD-DVD, certainly not "just an upconvert."

Plenty were here at my local WallyWorld too. Many of these will be given as XMAS gifts, and when recipients see how limited the hddvd line-up is, have trouble with the poor reliability of these units, and realize how Blu-Ray is better on all fronts, there will be plenty of open-box returns and Goodwill donations come January.

Hope the negative experiece of hddvd ownership doesn't turn them off to High Def programing in general.

Funny how its in stock in all the Blu-Ray fanboy stores.:rolleyes: I guess you skip right over the negative Blu-Ray ownership experiences in the Blu-Ray forum? I've had an absolute great experience with both and I absolutely love getting all my movies in HD.:D

Just more acts of desparation by the red-faced hddvd camp !!!

Kinda like the Blu Disney and Sony software sales?:D

I would consider myself the "average" guy who went out and bought the $99 HD-DVD player yesterday. Upper-middle class. I have a slightly better system then your average consumer, $400 two generation old Marantz receiver, cheap HTD speakers, 42" LG 720p set. I've been using a old non-progressive scan Marantz DVD player with my TV. I buy maybe 10 DVDs a year, but I prefer to rent 90% my titles from Netflix.

Thank you :)

Brandon

All the new HDDVD owners are on the forums trying to get firmware help, the new PS3 owners ar watching Spiderman 3. :eek:

lol. God help anyone having to watch that trash.

Just more acts of desparation by the red-faced hddvd camp !!!

I guess paying out hundreds of millions to Paramount for limited time exclusivity isn't working out so well !!!

Anyway, if you cant sell your crappy hddvd product, you might as well nearly give 'em away !!!

Plenty were here at my local WallyWorld too. Many of these will be given as XMAS gifts, and when recipients see how limited the hddvd line-up is, have trouble with the poor reliability of these units, and realize how Blu-Ray is better on all fronts, there will be plenty of open-box returns and Goodwill donations come January.

Hope the negative experiece of hddvd ownership doesn't turn them off to High Def programing in general.Is there some secret handbook that has a template named "Walmart HD DVD Sale Post For Dummies"?
I've read versions of this same pathetic, ridiculous reply about 1,000 times in the last 3 days and it shows me a couple of things:
1. Some people are incapable of rational, original thought.
2. I need to get out of this forum for a few days, paint my basement and watch Patriots\Colts game!:D

Please remove your foot from your mouth at any time :)

Looks like my local store.

They had plenty of extras...

Granted I still bought one though :D

lol. God help anyone having to watch that trash.
lol

Funny how its in stock in all the Blu-Ray fanboy stores.:rolleyes: I guess you skip right over the negative Blu-Ray ownership experiences in the Blu-Ray forum? I've had an absolute great experience with both and I absolutely love getting all my movies in HD.:D

Go venture into a hick town Walmart.

You'll find a stack of em.


I was saying in another thread that it's ridiculous that a friend of mine didn't get any at her Walmart in Spokane, but my hick town Walmart got 30 of em.

:confused:

Go venture into a hick town Walmart.

You'll find a stack of em.


I was saying in another thread that it's ridiculous that a friend of mine didn't get any at her Walmart in Spokane, but my hick town Walmart got 30 of em.

:confused:

Yeah I posted that yesterday. I realize the small towns have problems selling higher tech stuff but I also heard from a Wallyworld employee that said they were sold out all over the country by noon on Saturday. I'm not sure if they were just feeding me a line of crap though because why would Wallyworld give access to this kind of sales/ marketing information to regular frontline employees.

I was saying in another thread that it's ridiculous that a friend of mine didn't get any at her Walmart in Spokane, but my hick town Walmart got 30 of em.
:confused:Have you ever been to Spokane? I think it would end your confusion.
My apologies to your friend.

Have you ever been to Spokane? I think it would end your confusion.
My apologies to your friend.

LOL! So Spokane won't be overtaking Silicon Valley anytime soon?

Have you ever been to Spokane? I think it would end your confusion.
My apologies to your friend.

lol never been.... Always assumed it was fairly decent sized :D



Has to be bigger than Lebanon, Oregon though ;)

They are already losing a bunch on every PS3 sold so I wouldn't say they don't have the balls to do it but I do wonder just how low they are willing to go. I'll go out on a limb and say that they do have the balls and it's just a matter of days before we see just how big those balls are.;)
By low I meant competitive pricing with HD DVD players. They can't even come close to that kind of price.

How about 'Exchange your HD-DVD players for a free Blu-Ray player' :) That way, they do not antagonize their CE partners, and they can also reduce the market share of HD DVD. This would make the higher prices of Blu-Ray players an advantage as people would think they are getting something worth $399 while losing something worth $199.

Of course, the downside would be that the BDA would lose millions, and they would end up with thousands of HD-DVD players, which they have to dispose of :) But seriously, if the BDA has a sale as I mentioned in my title, do you think there would be any takers? Would that be even legal?

By low I meant competitive pricing with HD DVD players. They can't even come close to that kind of price.

I think you quoted the wrong post? Blu-Ray needs a entry level player like HD-DVD has plain and simple. Most consumers don't even know the difference between 1080i and 1080p and are only concerned with it being HD or not HD. If Blu can get a 1080i player out the door for around $200 they should.

He's trying to figure how to do the 55 firmware updates, boil his HD DVDs and get Spiderman 3 to play on his new A-2.
Isn't that what all 50,000+ new A-2 owners are doing this weekend?
I thought it was common knowledge.

hahaha that was pretty good.

I'm in PHX too and my friend snagged the last A2 at BB, he said everywhere was sold out and people at BB were constantly calling about them. This was Thursday.

I guess paying out hundreds of millions to Paramount for limited time exclusivity isn't working out so well !!!



You have proof of this? Such a large payout would have to be broken out in a company's quarterly financial statements. Have you seen the proof?

If no stop spreading FUD and linking to the New York Times as "proof"; they are not a reputable news organization anymore.

You have proof of this? Such a large payout would have to be broken out in a company's quarterly financial statements. Have you seen the proof?

If no stop spreading FUD and linking to the New York Times as "proof"; they are not a reputable news organization anymore.

They are more reputable than the blogs and crap people keep on posting on here as links.. I mean come on there are a ton of links that people post that are Pro HD-DVD and Pro Blu-Ray.. Bill Hunt to name a few, so of the HD-DVD fan boys are still pissed at him because he took a side.... If AVS Forum was more Pro Blu-Ray which it is far from, they would be bitching about that as well. The New York Times is better than most of the BS in this place, including the invasion of HD-DVDers in the Blu-Ray forums. I mean you guys are so organized I bet you have a monthly meetings on how to take over posts in here. ;)

Just more acts of desparation by the red-faced hddvd camp !!!

I guess paying out hundreds of millions to Paramount for limited time exclusivity isn't working out so well !!!

Anyway, if you cant sell your crappy hddvd product, you might as well nearly give 'em away !!!

Plenty were here at my local WallyWorld too. Many of these will be given as XMAS gifts, and when recipients see how limited the hddvd line-up is, have trouble with the poor reliability of these units, and realize how Blu-Ray is better on all fronts, there will be plenty of open-box returns and Goodwill donations come January.

Hope the negative experiece of hddvd ownership doesn't turn them off to High Def programing in general.


Wow. Where to even begin? You really took the blu "fud" pill. HD DVD isn't a "crappy" product at all. I guess the good reviews from both critics and purchasers alike aren't enough for you? I've had my A2 for nearly a year and it's been an amazing player. To even suggest getting one for $100 is nothing less than a TERRIFIC VALUE, is pretty much total blindness to the obvious. But keep at it, I'll be interested to see how you spin Warner going HD DVD exclusive as somehow good for Blu ray.

I think you quoted the wrong post? Blu-Ray needs a entry level player like HD-DVD has plain and simple. Most consumers don't even know the difference between 1080i and 1080p and are only concerned with it being HD or not HD. If Blu can get a 1080i player out the door for around $200 they should.
Yes I did quote the wrong quote, thanks for the heads up. Edited my post.

This is the quote I meant to respond to:
They are already losing a bunch on every PS3 sold so I wouldn't say they don't have the balls to do it but I do wonder just how low they are willing to go. I'll go out on a limb and say that they do have the balls and it's just a matter of days before we see just how big those balls are.;)

lol never been.... Always assumed it was fairly decent sized :D
Has to be bigger than Lebanon, Oregon though ;)
JE3146,
Small world, I went to college with a guy from Lebanon, Oregon.
I grew up in Central\Eastern Washington so I can talk trash about Spokane without any ill will.
But it would not surprise me if many Walmarts did not have the A-2 as depending on location, the HDM demographic just doesn't exist or would not step inside a Walmart for any reason.

But keep at it, I'll be interested to see how you spin Warner going HD DVD exclusive as somehow good for Blu ray.


I dont think a 200-300 million payout from Toshiba to Warner (ala the Paramount dirty deal) will happen this go around. When Warner elects to go Blu, you red-faced followers of the inferior hddvd format may want to spend some time over at the Blu-Ray site - - oh, nevermind, I see that many of you are here already!!!

please add another BOGO :D, hopefully on fox titles.

.... that will be the day. I read somewhere that Fox may go HD-DVD exclusive. I sure hope not for HD-DVD's sake. Who needs the aggravation.:D

From what I've been able to gather, there aren't any "$88-$99" HD-DVD players. I've only seen one ad from Walmart that will have HD-DVD players for $98 (AFTER a $100 discount!) for ONE DAY (Black Friday)...that's not a permanent price! On top of that, it's only certain stores, NOT all Walmarts!

Blu-Ray backers aren't running around, scared of these things. Like the old saying goes: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR! If anybody wants to watch HI-DEF movies on a sub-$100 player, they shouldn't expect much...

...spoken like a true Freak.;)