I was about to pick up some of these banana plugs:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2943&seq=1&format=2

On the receiver side, can these plugs be plugged into one another (from the rear) so I can send 2 lines to try bi-wiring the front speakers?

Or would you suggest I twist both wires and only use 1 set of banana plugs on the receiver? I wonder if 2x12 gauge wires would fit into 1 banana plug?

On the receiver side, can these plugs be plugged into one another (from the rear) so I can send 2 lines to try bi-wiring the front speakers?

Or would you suggest I twist both wires and only use 1 set of banana plugs on the receiver? I wonder if 2x12 gauge wires would fit into 1 banana plug?

From those banana's "Description":
Can accept bare wire, spades or other banana plugs.

If you connect your wires to the side of the set of bananas that you wish to piggy-back onto (the set that would be plugged directly into the receiver), then yes, you can piggy-back those banana plugs. It doesn't matter how you connect the wires to the set of banana plugs that you plan to do the piggy-backing with (the set that would be plugged into the back of the set that is plugged into the receiver).

Depending upon the bananas and the wire gauge, you can sometimes fit two wires in. With those bananas and 12g wire it's doubtful. You may also be able to connect one wire to the side and one wire to the rear simultaneously.

What receiver do you have? Does it have A+B front speaker terminals?

Depending upon the bananas and the wire gauge, you can sometimes fit two wires in. With those bananas and 12g wire it's doubtful. You may also be able to connect one wire to the side and one wire to the rear simultaneously.

What receiver do you have? Does it have A+B front speaker terminals?

So it sounds like these banana plugs can be setup to be plugged into one another. Hmm, one wire to the side and one from the bottom, that is another idea. To save on 1 set of banana plugs, I may just do this or try and fit the 2 x 12 gauge wires in somehow.

It's a Denon 1600 series with separate A & B speaker terminals. What were your thoughts this one?

Hmm, one wire to the side and one from the bottom, that is another idea.
That is how I've done it. You MUST use the side hole if you want to piggy-back another banana plug into the back or rear (I think that bottom is what you are calling it) of the first banana plug. Use both wires of a 2-stranded speaker wire for each pair of piggy-backed bananas. In other words, connect one strand of the 2-strands to the side of a banana and the other strand of the 2-strands to the 'bottom' of a banana. You can cut the strand that goes into the side of the 'first' banana appropriately shorter (an inch or two) if you'd like. Then you go ahead and piggy-back them before you plug them into the receiver. That's the easiest way to do it.


It's a Denon 1600 series with separate A & B speaker terminals. What were your thoughts this one?
Since those 'B' speaker outputs simply represent parallel connections off of the same 2 front channel L/R amps as the 'A' speaker outputs, you can use them to conveniently facilitate bi-wiring. The 2 front channel L/R amps will still see the same impedance if you do this. So, if the speakers are 8ohm speakers and you bi-wire them using the 'A' and 'B' speaker outputs, the 2 front channel L/R amps will still see the same 8ohm impedance that they would see if the speakers were simply mono-wired off of the 'A' outputs. This is what I would do if I were you.

Use both wires of a 2-stranded speaker wire for each pair of piggy-backed bananas. In other words, connect one strand of the 2-strands to the side of a banana and the other strand of the 2-strands to the 'bottom' of a banana.
So this would mean using 1 banana plug (say right channel) for both strands of right channel speaker wires to the right speaker? Wanted to clarify and see if I can use 1 less banana plug.

Since those 'B' speaker outputs simply represent parallel connections off of the same 2 front channel L/R amps as the 'A' speaker outputs, you can use them to conveniently facilitate bi-wiring. The 2 front channel L/R amps will still see the same impedance if you do this. So, if the speakers are 8ohm speakers and you bi-wire them using the 'A' and 'B' speaker outputs, the 2 front channel L/R amps will still see the same 8ohm impedance that they would see if the speakers were simply mono-wired off of the 'A' outputs. This is what I would do if I were you.

So it's safe to run both sets of speakers A+B and bi-wire this way? I never even considered this, wow! What are any implications to the stress of the system, if any?

So this would mean using 1 banana plug (say right channel) for both strands of right channel speaker wires to the right speaker? Wanted to clarify and see if I can use 1 less banana plug.
Yes, if you can squeeze 2 wires into one banana. Then you run those 2 wires to the high and low binding posts of the speaker; either the + or - ones depending upon what the banana on the other end is plugged into. This will take advantage of the '2-stranded-ness' inherent to speaker cable. There is, of course, another way to wire a biwire setup to accomplish the same thing, but I think it is more cumbersome to do it that way. Just make sure you properly use the color coding provided by bananas or mark the wires correctly no matter which way you do the biwiring to eliminate any confusion regarding the + and - connections.


So it's safe to run both sets of speakers A+B and bi-wire this way?
Absolutely. Biwiring a speaker with the wires 'doubled' into the banana plugs represents a parallel connection off of an amplifier channel to the upper and lower binding posts of a speaker. The R/L 'B' outputs on your receiver are simply additional parallel outputs off of the same 2 amplifiers as the R/L 'A' outputs, so they can easily be used to facilitate biwiring. The connections are identical electrically.

What are any implications to the stress of the system, if any?
None. As I said, each front channel amplifier will still be presented with the same exact impedance that it would see if you simply mono-wired the speakers off of only the 'A' outputs or if you biwired the speakers 'traditionally', as you were planning, off of the 'A' output.


If you are 'scared' to do what I'm recommending, then just biwire your speakers as you were planning off of the 'A' outputs. ;) But I speak the truth. :)

I was about to pick up some of these banana plugs:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=2943&seq=1&format=2

On the receiver side, can these plugs be plugged into one another (from the rear) so I can send 2 lines to try bi-wiring the front speakers?

Or would you suggest I twist both wires and only use 1 set of banana plugs on the receiver? I wonder if 2x12 gauge wires would fit into 1 banana plug?

bi-wiring does nothing. the resistance inside your crossover is *far* more than the resistance in your speaker wire.

bi-wiring does nothing. the resistance inside your crossover is *far* more than the resistance in your speaker wire.
He didn't ask for anyone's opinion on whether bi-wiring is useful or not, did he? I don't think bi-wiring makes a difference either, but if someone has a legitimate question about doing it, I try and answer them without editorializing. :)

Thanks for all the replies... form both sides of the fence. As a heads up, I personally don't know if bi-wiring 2 wires that starts from 1 source (receiver end) will make much of a difference. Maybe on the speaker end and how it's setup internally, will make a difference?

Having said that, since it is low cost to purchase banana plugs and some speaker wires, I was going to give it a try.

Hope that helps and I do appreciate the feedback here.

Thanks for all the replies... form both sides of the fence. As a heads up, I personally don't know if bi-wiring 2 wires that starts from 1 source (receiver end) will make much of a difference. Maybe on the speaker end and how it's setup internally, will make a difference?
Most people think not.


Having said that, since it is low cost to purchase banana plugs and some speaker wires, I was going to give it a try.
That's reasonable enough. Beware of 'expectational bias'. :D

If it helps any, I have some of those exact plugs in front of me and *yes* you can get 2 strands of 12g wire in them.

I'm doing pretty much the same thing you are doing. I'm using B & W 604s2 speakers...the highs are run into speaker A and the lows are run into speaker B hookups.



Tommy

... I'm doing pretty much the same thing you are doing. I'm using B & W 604s2 speakers...the highs are run into speaker A and the lows are run into speaker B hookups.
What do you think? Would you do it again? Was the experience a revelation or a disappointment? Would you strongly recommend it or not?

What do you think? Would you do it again? Was the experience a revelation or a disappointment? Would you strongly recommend it or not?
B&W recommends it. :eek:

B&W recommends it. :eek:


This is why I'm doing it. First pair I've ever "bi-wired"


sorry I couldn't help.

Tommy


edit......try it...you will not hurt anything if wired properly.

I am going to try it once I get the shipment from Monoprice :)

So Tommy, did you hear a difference. Did you go as far as having someone else switching the connections for an A/B test? :) Do share!

I am going to try it once I get the shipment from Monoprice :)

So Tommy, did you hear a difference. Did you go as far as having someone else switching the connections for an A/B test? :) Do share!


to be honest, my friend (who I got the speakers from) had them already wired like this. All I am doing is adding the plugs (he had naked wire). I live in a small apartment right now, so I can't really give a "good" test....sorry.

I can tell you that my friend said he could tell a big difference in this, that is why he said to keep them like he had them.

He didn't ask for anyone's opinion on whether bi-wiring is useful or not, did he? I don't think bi-wiring makes a difference either, but if someone has a legitimate question about doing it, I try and answer them without editorializing. :)

i was just trying to provide an additional perspective which the OP may not have considered. editorializing is useful because sometimes (actually quite often) people (me included) don't know the right questions to ask.

B&W's marketing and advertising department recommends it you mean.

Was the experience a revelation...


LOL. i wouldn't hold out for any revelations from bi-wiring (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=bi-wiring+myth). the myth of bi-wiring is largely perpetuated by speaker wire retailers as well as the magazine reviewing machine that serves them.

bi-amping on the other hand has all kinds of advantages.

bi-amping on the other hand has all kinds of advantages.
Is there a good thread and/or source you could point me to on this subject, a n00b's "how to" guide, or "bi-amping for dummies", if you will? I would certainly expect much better results from bi-amping than bi-wiring (which I don't really understand at all, but I would say the same about Monster Cable et al for that matter).

Is there a good thread and/or source you could point me to on this subject, a n00b's "how to" guide, or "bi-amping for dummies", if you will? I would certainly expect much better results from bi-amping than bi-wiring (which I don't really understand at all, but I would say the same about Monster Cable et al for that matter).

here you go: Benefits of Bi-Amping (Not Quite Magic, But Close) (http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm)

In case your interested, there is no advantage to using banana plugs at all except for quick connects and disconnects.
If you aren't going to be moving your eq around, save some money and cancel the order for the plugs.
plugs can do nothing except degrade a signal.

In case your interested, there is no advantage to using banana plugs at all except for quick connects and disconnects.
If you aren't going to be moving your eq around, save some money and cancel the order for the plugs.
plugs can do nothing except degrade a signal.
I thought plugs would help with prevent / slow down the oxidation of the ends of speaker wires?

In case your interested, there is no advantage to using banana plugs at all except for quick connects and disconnects.
If you aren't going to be moving your eq around, save some money and cancel the order for the plugs.
plugs can do nothing except degrade a signal.

the speaker terminals on some receivers (such as my pioneer vsx-1014) are cramped so banana plugs make it easier to hook things up (and ensure there are no stay wires touching anything).

It's a Denon 1600 series with separate A & B speaker terminals. What were your thoughts this one?

I don't know if those banana plugs are going to work on your Denon. On their older model AVRs the spacing was different than other Manufactures. :eek: {EDIT: I can't tell on the picture, but if those are the banana plugs that have 2 connected together, their spacing is different than on my 3 Denons}

In case your interested, there is no advantage to using banana plugs at all except for quick connects and disconnects.
If you aren't going to be moving your eq around, save some money and cancel the order for the plugs.
plugs can do nothing except degrade a signal.

they look nice and eliminate the possibility of wire strands touching something
they should not also it makes it fast and easy to make changes.

plugs can do nothing except degrade a signal.
If used properly (which is pretty easy to do) they don't degrade the signal.


I thought plugs would help with prevent / slow down the oxidation of the ends of speaker wires?
Doubtful. But, provided it's decent wire, oxidation is not really a huge concern. If you live in an environment (humid) where it MAY occur after several years, you can simply cut off the end of the wire where it occurs. And even if oxidation occurs, it doesn't affect the signal that's transmitted by the wire.

Banana plugs are convenient.


they look nice and eliminate the possibility of wire strands touching something
Of course, the plugs can still touch one another and cause a short, especially the ones pictured in the OP's first post.


I don't know if those banana plugs are going to work on your Denon. On their older model AVRs the spacing was different than other Manufactures. {EDIT: I can't tell on the picture, but if those are the banana plugs that have 2 connected together, their spacing is different than on my 3 Denons}
No, they're not connected; they're individual plugs so spacing is a non-concern.

The ones I had in mind are not connected. But having read that plugs are metal and can touch each other, I am having 2nd thoughts now :)

The older Denon does have hard to tighten speaker terminals in the rear. Hence, my original thought of using plugs.

But having read that plugs are metal and can touch each other, I am having 2nd thoughts now.
Well, all banana plugs, of course, MUST be metal at some point to allow conduction of the signal to the wire, so it's possible to 'short' ANY banana plugs. But so too is it possible to short bare speaker wire, and because of loose wire strands, it may be even more possible than when using bananas.

But if you turn off your receiver before 'fiddling' with your speaker connections, then there is no chance of shorting anything. And even if a speaker channel 'shorts' while a receiver is in use, usually all that happens is the receiver goes into 'protect mode' and shuts down.

HERE (http://www.speakerrepair.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=safe_connect) are some banana plugs (they're just like what Monster sells, but cheaper) whose design at least reduces the chance of the plugs' metal parts touching.


http://www.speakerrepair.com/ebaypics/new-banana-pair-300.jpg