Sim2 just released the official price on the C3X 1080p and the "new" msrp is $31,995. That's a $2k increase over the price discussed at CEDIA. Keep in mind Sim2 had always said "about" $30k.

Jim

I think the increase reflects our dollar dropping further in value to the euro :(

I think the increase reflects our dollar dropping further in value to the euro :(

Good point Alan, and with the latest Fed reduction and other factors, I think the short term doesn't bode well for exchange rates.

Jim

Good point Alan, and with the latest Fed reduction and other factors, I think the short term doesn't bode well for exchange rates.

Jim

That, and the fact that some of the dealers are also out and out gougers as well:D:D






That just never gets old. Alan may disagree.

Some of the dealers are also out and out gougers as well:D:D

:eek::eek::D

What is the story on the new Sony projector...any info?

That, and the fact that some of the dealers are also out and out gougers as well:D:D






That just never gets old. Alan may disagree.


Your all a bunch of comedians:)

Even worse, my brother is a CPA, he legally changed his last name, swapped it with his middle name.



Jeff

If you are referring to the 200 I heard mid to end of this month.

I think the increase reflects our dollar dropping further in value to the euro :(

It's still cheaper than in europe... In the UK it retails for £17k, which is about $35,5k.

It's still cheaper than in europe... In the UK it retails for £17k, which is about $35,5k.

Looks like they are leveling the playground so no one has an advantage.
You could always come to the states: 33k US = 15,796 pounds. Thats half price.

Looks like they are leveling the playground so no one has an advantage.
You could always come to the states: 33k US = 15,796 pounds. Thats half price.

Now whose the comedian...:D

It's still cheaper than in europe... In the UK it retails for £17k, which is about $35,5k. Actually that would amount to 30200 USD, or did you already divide the amount by 1.175?

Does this mean the rs-2 or 380, 3000e is the best you can get if you can't afford 32k.

Does this mean the rs-2 or 380, 3000e is the best you can get if you can't afford 32k.

From reports I've heard from people I trust, the RS-2 has failed to live up to billing. Marantz have a couple of options.

Does this mean the rs-2 or 380, 3000e is the best you can get if you can't afford 32k.

I think it depends on what you want and how sensible you are to various artifacts. There are already people that complain about increased rainbows on the new Sim2s due to the new color wheel they use. But if you're looking at new projectors and can't afford the $32k, I'd say try Sony, Marantz, the already discussed Sim2 380 and the 3000E. If you can wait just a little longer, don't miss the Digital Projection iVision 30 and the Projection Design M25. From what I can tell, those two will be excellent performers and give the Sim2 a run for the money. Guess we have to wait and see what the final productions units can achieve as far as on/off CR and brightness goes.

Good point Alan, and with the latest Fed reduction and other factors, I think the short term doesn't bode well for exchange rates.

Jim

On a somewhat positive note the weak $ would bring manufacturing back to the USA. Perhaps SIM will open a plant here?

I think it depends on what you want and how sensible you are to various artifacts. There are already people that complain about increased rainbows on the new Sim2s due to the new color wheel they use. But if you're looking at new projectors and can't afford the $32k, I'd say try Sony, Marantz, the already discussed Sim2 380 and the 3000E. If you can wait just a little longer, don't miss the Digital Projection iVision 30 and the Projection Design M25. From what I can tell, those two will be excellent performers and give the Sim2 a run for the money. Guess we have to wait and see what the final productions units can achieve as far as on/off CR and brightness goes.

Agreed on the DP call. The iVisions seem very bright but with very low CR though, the dVisions seem far better.

The new machines actually reduce artefacting, 60% being the figure measured. Its also clear to see on screen up close. New VP algorithms have been written also, although that is an ongoing process across the range.

On a somewhat positive note the weak $ would bring manufacturing back to the USA. Perhaps SIM will open a plant here?

If they had a US manufacturing plant they would have to put up an electric fence to keep us fanatics from peaking in the windows:)

So far, with what I've seen with the HT 5000 as Alan has stated many times, one can't really overestimate what ANSI pop does for the picture. At the 2006CEDIA when I saw the TI demo using the HT 5000 I was just awed at the depth the image had. I've been plasantly surprised at how good even low APL looks (coming from CRT this is a big big hurdle).

I saw a demo of the C3X 1080 at the Sound & Vision show in London today. The projector was demoed with an ISCO anamorphic lense on a 2.35 Da-Lite screen and the source material was "Hot Fuzz" on Blu-Ray.

Being a ProjectionDesign Action Model One mkIII owner, I was there mainly to check out PD's latest single-chip 1080 offering, the M25. However, I came away from that demo slightly underwhelmed in that I did not think it offered THAT much of an improvement over my present projector, which was a bit disappointing since I was mentally prepared to spring for an upgrade.

The C3X 1080, on the other hand, blew everything else out of the water, including Sim2's own 1-chip 1080 models (which were almost on par with PD M25). It was by far the best image I have ever seen from a projector, including CRT. The brightness, the contrast, the punch, the calmness to the image... all I could say was 'wow'!

The rep said it would go on sale for £20k, which is more than I could justify to spend on a display device, but that won't stop me from starting to save up for one.... :)

I think the increase reflects our dollar dropping further in value to the euro :(

Hi Alan,

When buying certain US products officially imported into the UK, the figure in dollars is sometimes the same in pounds, i.e. $30K = £30K. If one is to go through official distribution chains (and for any kind of warranty you must, not to mention the right power supply :D) then the weak dollar/strong pound has little positive effect in my limited experience. :)

Regards,

Sean

I think he is commenting on the fact that the dollar has lost nearly 10% of value against the Euro since June (1.32 in June, 1.44 this week). At some point Sim2 will need to bring the value of US sales back to Italy, and that 10 point reduction then becomes an issue.

It could also in part be because they know what the C3X 1080 is capable of delivering.:)

Jim

I think he is commenting on the fact that the dollar has lost nearly 10% of value against the Euro since June (1.32 in June, 1.44 this week). At some point Sim2 will need to bring the value of US sales back to Italy, and that 10 point reduction then becomes an issue.

It could also in part be because they know what the C3X 1080 is capable of delivering.:)

Jim

Hi Jim,

I was not really commenting on Alans post, I merely chose his as a staging for my pathetic winging about how much certain things cost here in the UK and how unfair it all is etc, :) All quite lame really! :)

Cheers,

Sean

Hi Jim,

I was not really commenting on Alans post, I merely chose his as a staging for my pathetic winging about how much certain things cost here in the UK and how unfair it all is etc, :) All quite lame really! :)

Cheers,

Sean

Hi Sean,

Sorry about that!

Jim

Which generation of DLP chip is this unit using? I noticed on their web site they have increased the projected contrast ratio to over 10,000 to 1. Are they going to be using the new chip, or last years chip?

IB

Which generation of DLP chip is this unit using? I noticed on their web site they have increased the projected contrast ratio to over 10,000 to 1. Are they going to be using the new chip, or last years chip?

IB

Darkchip 4

Darkchip 4

http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story/14100/ti_unwraps_darkchip_4_dlp_technology

Improvements from labs at Texas Instruments have yielded a new DLP chip that boasts a 30 percent improvement in contrast levels.

Ignoring, for a moment, the torrent of soon-to-be-on-sale electronic devices pouring out of CEDIA, some of the most exciting developments may actually be technology that’s further down the pipe. Texas Instruments demonstrated this with the unveiling of their DarkChip 4 DLP technology, which won’t be in new products until 2008 but may make a major splash when it debuts.

TI’s main claim to fame with DarkChip 4 is an advertised 30 percent boost in native contrast ratio. The company says the increase comes from advances in mirror design lithography and other proprietary process changes. The result should be richer blacks and images that “pop.”

“We are constantly searching and innovating new ways to create simply the best HDTV experience,” said Adam Kunzman, DLP HDTV business manager, in a statement. “The better the native contrast performance our mirrors can deliver, the more images will jump off the screen.”

TI’s CEDIA display will include a 1080p DLP-based projector with a contrast ratio of 15,000:1, and conventional HDTV that uses DarkChip 4 technology and LED illumination to achieve a native contrast ratio of more than 100,000:1.
--------------
I hope you are correct!

IB

The SIM2 rep who demoed the C2X said it was DC4 but the preliminary data sheet available at the show says DC3.

Its already been confirmed on here many times already, the C3X1080 is a DC4 product.

I believe the production demos are built and going out as we speak, if not then they are imminenet.

Is this this piece is a 3 chip?

Is this this piece is a 3 chip?

Yes, sim2's new 3chip dlp, check the link

http://www.sim2usa.com/prodotto_.php?id=38&name=Grand%20Cinema%20C3X&id_pr=91&cont=3&colore=FFFFFF&name_p=C3X%201080&menu=menu_home_theater.htm

Is this this piece is a 3 chip?

Yes Jeff. If you aren't yet considering one of these , get in your car next weekend and come over here for an hour or two.

Art

I think Sim2 has a special relationship with TI and gets the newest chips before other companies. It would be silly for Sim2 to release such an expensive machine without using the latest and greatest chips.

Next step, replace the bulb with 3 lasers in RGB.

Does anyone know what the REAL WORLD lumen output of this machine will be?

IB

I think Sim2 has a special relationship with TI and gets the newest chips before other companies. It would be silly for Sim2 to release such an expensive machine without using the latest and greatest chips.

Next step, replace the bulb with 3 lasers in RGB.

Does anyone know what the REAL WORLD lumen output of this machine will be?

IB

2000 calibrated is achievable.


PS what a steamer my figure above turned out to be

Aside from bulb life and bulb cost, is there anything that anyone could possibly complain about this projector? It sounds like the perfect HT product, aside from the need for the bulb.

IB

Aside from bulb life and bulb cost, is there anything that anyone could possibly complain about this projector? It sounds like the perfect HT product, aside from the need for the bulb.

IB

I didn't think there was an issue with bulb life, and considering the cost of the PJ, the bulb is cheap (IMO).

Jim

Aside from bulb life and bulb cost, is there anything that anyone could possibly complain about this projector? It sounds like the perfect HT product, aside from the need for the bulb.

IB

Ferrari owners dont worry about the price of gas.




Lamp cost is no worse than others and lamp life is longer that the vast majority

Lasers will also give better colors, deeper blacks, and use less power and create less heat. The days of the bulb are numbered!

IB

Ferrari owners dont worry about the price of gas.

Not true... :p


But I agree about the lamp cost. There's nothing to complain about, since there are much more expensive Xenon bulbs out there, that make the HT/C3X bulbs look dirt cheap in comparison.

The C3X1080 itself looks like a winner for now, but I'm sure there will be better projectors next year. Technology moves on and so does the pj industry. Projection Design has already announced the M80 with 8000 lumens and 50k:1 on/off CR. Guess we have to wait and see if they deliver...

Not true... :p


But I agree about the lamp cost. There's nothing to complain about, since there are much more expensive Xenon bulbs out there, that make the HT/C3X bulbs look dirt cheap in comparison.

The C3X1080 itself looks like a winner for now, but I'm sure there will be better projectors next year. Technology moves on and so does the pj industry. Projection Design has already announced the M80 with 8000 lumens and 50k:1 on/off CR. Guess we have to wait and see if they deliver...

Are you a Ferrari owner, if so which do you drive? Italian sports cars are a real passion of mine.


Even if it delivers half the lumens when calibrated, the M80 looks like a show stopper. Im certainly looking out for it.

What is the story on the new Sony projector...any info?
Jeff, what I know is that the 004 replacement is due Spring '08. I don't think it's the 200.

Italian sports cars are a real passion of mine.


Italian cars, Italian clothing, Italian shoes, Italian fashion, Italian women, Italian football, Italian food ..... what's not to like about Italia? It's all great. Stylish nation. :cool:

coldmachine

"2000 calibrated is achievable"

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/IMG_2523.JPG


i had a demo from the sim unit in my cinema last week.

we compare it with a qualia my friend still have and my 3 chip chrisie
3 chip dlp side by side at the same time on the screen.

we measure the most important things but i will not post here any no.
or tell how good or bad the unit is
because its a early sample.
what i can tell is
the unit will have with a new lamp max. 1000 lumens.

btw i hear that the 5000 will get a dual lamp design for high light out
and dc4 will be also include early next year.

coldmachine

"2000 calibrated is achievable"

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/IMG_2523.JPG



btw i hear that the 5000 will get a dual lamp design for high light out
and dc4 will be also include early next year.

Sounds great I'd heard that as well.

Art

From reports I've heard from people I trust, the RS-2 has failed to live up to billing. Marantz have a couple of options.

Since this post has a comedic narrative,

There is a very positive, extremely unbiased view of the RS2 on Projector Central . They gave it their editors choice award.

Since this post has a comedic narrative,

There is a very positive, extremely unbiased view of the RS2 on Projector Central . They gave it their editors choice award.


As you are aware, I spent some time with one at a demo that was put on for a friend to choose a new machine. You are also aware it also shares some of the downsides of its predecessor.

Anyway, its rather OT.

Wow that is bad for the bright corners.

Weird how CM seems to view JVC pjs that have such horrible bright corners that seem worse than the majority/all of the JVCs out there (other RS2 owners/viewers have commented on no bright corner issues or so minor it isn't noticeable) yet Sim2 pjs he has the luxury of viewing/owning seem to test out better than all the others (highest test numbers I see on Sim2 pjs here are from CM) and have next to no issues. Talk about both bad and good luck:)

"2000 calibrated is achievable"


Does anyone know you can setup the pj to get that?
As others seem to be in the 800-1100 range.

"2000 calibrated is achievable"


Does anyone know you can setup the pj to get that?
As others seem to be in the 800-1100 range.

I believe this refers to custom modification.

Art

"2000 calibrated is achievable"


Does anyone know you can setup the pj to get that?
As others seem to be in the 800-1100 range.


You cant. The figure was a POS. If you look at post 38 you will see i amended that when this thread was reopened, but you forgot to quote that.

I believe this refers to custom modification.

Art

Not sure what you mean. Could you clarify.

Wow that is bad for the bright corners.


I've never seen any projector looking that bad, and I've seen alot of junk, including broken stuff. Where are the purple lines on the sides coming from? If I wouldn't know better, I'd say this is a bad close up shot of a tube face from a CRT projector...

I've never seen any projector looking that bad, and I've seen alot of junk, including broken stuff. Where are the purple lines on the sides coming from? If I wouldn't know better, I'd say this is a bad close up shot of a tube face from a CRT projector...

The exposure time makes it look worse than it actually is in real life, but it is noticeable.

This one is clearer and cropped, but again due to exposure time looks a bit worse

Sim2 pjs he has the luxury of viewing/owning seem to test out better than all the others (highest test numbers I see on Sim2 pjs here are from CM) and have next to no issues.

The next to no issues is just a fact of life. The HT5000 works fine, though id did report the HDMI issues. The HT380 works fine too and I have no RBE issue. I have also complained and reported numerous issues with the 1080

As for the figures, you'll find that my HT5000 actually under performs the figures of W.Meyer and JlgLaw

Having seen, played with, and tested most of Sim2's current line (and owning an HT5000), I've found nothing in CM's posts to be intentionally misleading or exaggerated regarding Sim2 PJ performance. His numbers mirror, or are certainly within the normal ranges, of what most of us are seeing with these models. When a correction is warranted, he is quick to post that as well.


Jim


Disclosures: I do own a company that sells the Sim2 line. I'm also an RS-1 owner, former Ruby owner, former Marantz owner, former Sharp owner. I have no issues with those PJ's. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. I just prefer the Sim2's.

The second shot of the RS2 looks more like it, even with a longer exposure time. While this is an issue, I think it's a minor one that can be sorted out. For JVC I think the best chance would be William Phelps. But of course this adds further costs to the projector. So I'll leave it at that.


As far as the general QC goes, there will always be people who get better units and there will always be some bad or faulty ones. Nothing you can do about it. Sim2 isn't a company that does mass production on a large scale. They test and measure every projector they build. They have an "assembly line" for this in their factory and every projector goes through it, step by step.
If there's something wrong, the problem is corrected and it's tested again until it meets their specs. That doesn't mean that a "faulty" projector slips through occasionally. We've seen this happen with a HT380 on the forum not too long ago. But that was one out of how many? 50? 100? 500? It's negligible if you ask me. But of course it's always a bad thing when someone buys a new toy and it breaks down or doesn't perform as it's supposed to.

That's true for any industry. Anyone asked for a car analogy? ;)
Ferrari has a great quality control in my experience. However, a friend bought an Enzo back when it came out. It broke down on his first trip, but Ferrari took care of it. It happens. Problem was solved, everyone happy and that's usually how Sim2 handles issues with projectors. Now, if the Sim2 projectors don't fit ones needs, there are other manufacturers to look at as well with similar or even better performing projectors.

The second shot of the RS2 looks more like it, even with a longer exposure time. While this is an issue, I think it's a minor one that can be sorted out. For JVC I think the best chance would be William Phelps. But of course this adds further costs to the projector. So I'll leave it at that.


As far as the general QC goes, there will always be people who get better units and there will always be some bad or faulty ones. Nothing you can do about it. Sim2 isn't a company that does mass production on a large scale. They test and measure every projector they build. They have an "assembly line" for this in their factory and every projector goes through it, step by step.
If there's something wrong, the problem is corrected and it's tested again until it meets their specs. That doesn't mean that a "faulty" projector slips through occasionally. We've seen this happen with a HT380 on the forum not too long ago. But that was one out of how many? 50? 100? 500? It's negligible if you ask me. But of course it's always a bad thing when someone buys a new toy and it breaks down or doesn't perform as it's supposed to.

That's true for any industry. Anyone asked for a car analogy? ;)
Ferrari has a great quality control in my experience. However, a friend bought an Enzo back when it came out. It broke down on his first trip, but Ferrari took care of it. It happens. Problem was solved, everyone happy and that's usually how Sim2 handles issues with projectors. Now, if the Sim2 projectors don't fit ones needs, there are other manufacturers to look at as well with similar or even better performing projectors.

On that note....one of the additional things that is done on the test line, that mass manufacturers don't do, is the raising of a "birth certificate" for each machine. This contains the test results and any update history etc and can be very useful in terms of service and support. This obviously adds to the cost, and is not viable for mass manufacture.

I think the first shot may have been too long an exposure. The second is pretty close to the actual naked eye view. The impact this has on CR figure, depending on where on the screen it is measured, is large as the effect is more pronounced on a black screen. With a good black level, even the slightest brightness in the corner will yield a corner CR that is a fraction of the center CR.

Having seen, played with, and tested most of Sim2's current line (and owning an HT5000), I've found nothing in CM's posts to be intentionally misleading or exaggerated regarding Sim2 PJ performance. His numbers mirror, or are certainly within the normal ranges, of what most of us are seeing with these models. When a correction is warranted, he is quick to post that as well.


Jim


Disclosures: I do own a company that sells the Sim2 line. I'm also an RS-1 owner, former Ruby owner, former Marantz owner, former Sharp owner. I have no issues with those PJ's. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. I just prefer the Sim2's.

I have an HT 5000 and have looked at the Ruby,Pearl,and RS1 before buying. I agree that CMs information is right with what has been measured and seen with my unit as well as observation of these others.

The oinly criticism I might have is CM's zeal which can come across as a cheerleader for SIM at times.

Art

Although he isn't either one, the word pimp would be a better choice than the word cheerleader. He's like an obsessed sports fan.

How interesting to see ones self discussed in the third party.

Mark, the word pimp is best reserved for, and applied to, those who offer or display persons for public gratification.

It doesn't apply to me, nor yourself, but there are those to whom it quite clearly does.

As for being an obsessed sports fan.......Oh yes, utterly.

The exposure time makes it look worse than it actually is in real life, but it is noticeable.

This one is clearer and cropped, but again due to exposure time looks a bit worse


That looks like my RS1.

I never thought I'd miss those bright corners... and you know - I was right. :D

Hey Coldmachine. Just spoofing. I said you were neither.

And you are correct. I am not a pimp but I once in my dreams was a high priced call guy.

Hey Coldmachine. Just spoofing. I said you were neither.

And you are correct. I am not a pimp but I once in my dreams was a high priced call guy.

Mark, I knew you were kidding. My answer was cryptic, but I'm sure the intended recipient will understand.

When you were a call guy did your John's tip you well, i hear some of those guys can be pretty generous :D

When you were a call guy did your John's tip you well, i hear some of those guys can be pretty generous :D

Ooooh, now that is "cold", cold.:D

(Mark, I'll check back for your answer as I'm sure it will give me a good laugh.:))

Jim

Ooooh, now that is "cold", cold.:D

(Mark, I'll check back for your answer as I'm sure it will give me a good laugh.:))

Jim
You may have to wait a while.........He's "working".:D

http://www.widescreenreview.com/news_detail.php?id=14954

Did director David Lynch get his projector for free?

IB

You may have to wait a while.........He's "working".:D


:eek::D

Coldmachine. The script writers are on strike.

i asssume are a union guy though a different union so I know you wouldn't become a scab.

I am many things, and although I have gay friends and customers and respect their freedom of choice, I am not gay. However, I was promiscuous in my younger day. In my dreams of being a call guy, my customers were all beautiful women under 40 who wanted the best, who were willing to pay top dollar, but didn't want attachment. Slam, bam, thank you man types. But alas, it was only a dream.

Coldmachine. The script writers are on strike.

i asssume are a union guy though a different union so I know you wouldn't become a scab.

I am many things, and although I have gay friends and customers and respect their freedom of choice, I am not gay. However, I was promiscuous in my younger day. In my dreams of being a call guy, my customers were all beautiful women under 40 who wanted the best, who were willing to pay top dollar, but didn't want attachment. Slam, bam, thank you man types. But alas, it was only a dream.

I removed my previous post. It must have been as you were writing this, sorry if it removes the context of the first 2 sentences.

Just babble anyway while awaiting my C3x shipment.

Ned Beatty's face :eek:

better do some good prayin boy!