I swallowed the Blu pill and i'm considering getting a Red just to have access to more movies(but i'm still in the Blu camp). My question is: I have a BDPS300 and absolutely love it. If I went Red, I would get the entry level player, HDA2 or HDA3, whichever is cheaper. I know the entry level players aren't 1080P. Would i notice a significant difference between the Tosh and my Sony in picture quality?
I have a 1080P KDL40V2500 Sony as my set connected through HDMI. Thanks for the help.

No. You probably wouldn't notice any difference at all.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=698612

It has been said that one needs a 50" or bigger display to notice any difference between 1080i and 1080p. Unless you tend to sit within two feet of your television, you likely won't notice.

No. You probably wouldn't notice any difference at all.

^^ what he said.

You wont as your tv will deinterlace the 1080i feed before displaying it into your TV anyways. Also, Going format neutral is a GOOD thing, It give you the opportunity to enjoy the movies YOU want and not only the ones available on the format.

Jorge

On a good TV 1080i is exactly the same as 1080p.

less processing is always better, but you probably will not notice any difference either way.

Put me in the "no difference" camp. In average (and even fairly high-end) home theater environments, these two formats produce identical results.

1080p does sound cooler though. Rolls off the tongue a bit better.

1080p does sound cooler though. Rolls off the tongue a bit better.

Like the doctor said, "its all in your head" :D:p

Is upgrading the firmware just as easy on an HD-DVD or more involved?

At 1080/60Hz with 24fps HDM content on most displays it does not really matter.

HomeTheaterMag's take on it (http://www.hometheatermag.com/gearworks/1106gear/)

As far as HDTV episodes on HDM check this resolution comparison (http://www.firingsquad.com/features/heroes_hd_dvd_comparison/default.asp)

It has been said that one needs a 50" or bigger display to notice any difference between 1080i and 1080p. Unless you tend to sit within two feet of your television, you likely won't notice.

Say what? If you have a 1080p set, that properly de-interlaces, then 1080i and 1080p will be exactly the same, regardless of whether the display is 20" or 200".

I think you are thinking of the difference between 720p and 1080p.

I have that same TV in my bedroom - hooked up to a PS3 for BD (1080p) and a HD-A1 for HD DVD (1080i).

Not a lick of quality difference between the two that I can tell - both look fantastic for the bed room.

I've never tried the same movie in BD and HD though.

If you have doubts, buy from a good local B&M store that has a friendly return policy, and see for yourself.

You probably won't notice much difference between 1080i and 1080p.

I don't know if your tv can support 1080p24, but if it does, it may be worth getting a player than can output 1080p24. That will eliminate the 3:2 pulldown judder. Again, only you can answer whether or not you can see the difference.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss; once you see something better, it is hard to take a step back. And it can be expensive, too.

With the way that the studios are divided between the 2 camps, there is no shame in going format neutral so you can enjoy HD movies from all studios.

Nope no difference on anything smaller than 50 inch. You might want to pick up a HD-A3 online at Best Buy right now(today and tomorrow) because you can get it for $200 with two free movies in the box(The Bourne Identity and 300), two free movies of your choice(I chose Slither and Hot Fuzz) plus five free movies by mail. Smoking deal for a second HD-DVD player for my bedroom tv. You can do in store pickup too.

I believe I have seen several articles in the Perfect Vision or Home Theater magazine where they tested many TVs and found that most of them did not de-interlace properly, resulting in 540 line resolution from 1080i sources. Has anyone else here seen those articles? Did I misunderstand those articles or miss something?

If you have doubts, buy from a good local B&M store that has a friendly return policy, and see for yourself.

You probably won't notice much difference between 1080i and 1080p.

I don't know if your tv can support 1080p24, but if it does, it may be worth getting a player than can output 1080p24. That will eliminate the 3:2 pulldown judder. Again, only you can answer whether or not you can see the difference.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss; once you see something better, it is hard to take a step back. And it can be expensive, too.

With the way that the studios are divided between the 2 camps, there is no shame in going format neutral so you can enjoy HD movies from all studios.

Sorry, guess I need HD for dummies. Can you describe "judder" in simpler terms?

Judder is a video artifact caused by 3/2 pulldown. Movies are shot on film at 24 frames per second (fps), while video is displayed at 30fps. In order to display 24 fps on a 30 fps (60hz) display (the huge majority of TVs are 30 fps/60hz displays) a repeating of information is required, that can cause a moving object to 'jerk' a bit. That is judder.

It's not really noticable on a small display, but once you know what to look for, it can be distracting on larger displays, and front projected images.

I believe I have seen several articles in the Perfect Vision or Home Theater magazine where they tested many TVs and found that most of them did not de-interlace properly, resulting in 540 line resolution from 1080i sources. Has anyone else here seen those articles? Did I misunderstand those articles or miss something?

yes and no.


Yes plenty of displays don't deinterlace perfectly. But this will not reduce the resolution by half. That's an often repeated myth. For most people, the worst you will see (if anything at all) will be jaggies or moire.

I believe I have seen several articles in the Perfect Vision or Home Theater magazine where they tested many TVs and found that most of them did not de-interlace properly, resulting in 540 line resolution from 1080i sources. Has anyone else here seen those articles? Did I misunderstand those articles or miss something?

It appears so. 1080i sources are broadcast and cable HDTV (note that most sports are shown in 720p to avoid deinterlacing). Both HD-DVD and BD store film based material in 1080p (at 24 frames per second), so they would both be 1080p sources. 1080i is only used for transport. Like using two 30 seat buses to transport 24 couples. How difficult is that? Assuming proper implementation, which, unfortunately, can't be always counted on, the process is mathematically exact and computationally simple. It's deinterlacing original 1080i (like from a sports event) that's difficult, and what those articles discuss.

I believe I recall that the articles were talking about problems in combining two interlaced 540 line images and showing them as a single 1080 line frame. Instead the sets alternated between the images, showing 540 lines at a time. I don't think this was similar to processing artifacts like jaggies, but my understanding is pretty limited.

I believe I have seen several articles in the Perfect Vision or Home Theater magazine where they tested many TVs and found that most of them did not de-interlace properly, resulting in 540 line resolution from 1080i sources. Has anyone else here seen those articles? Did I misunderstand those articles or miss something?


I may be wrong, but from what I remember, this was an issue of de-interlacing 1080i in such a way to down-convert to 720p. It involves taking two frames at 1920x540 and getting one frame at 1280x720. This seems harder than taking two frames at 1920x540 and joining them together to get 1 frame at 1920x1080.

I believe I have seen several articles in the Perfect Vision or Home Theater magazine where they tested many TVs and found that most of them did not de-interlace properly, resulting in 540 line resolution from 1080i sources. Has anyone else here seen those articles? Did I misunderstand those articles or miss something?

On my Sharp displays you need to enable FILM MODE under the advanced menu. Once you do that, 1080i is deinterlaced perfectly and you get the true 1080p frames. I imagine there are similar modes on a lot of sets, and we all know that reviewers aren't necessarily smarter than the average 1st grader.

I think there aren't many new sets that don't do this properly.

Even when it isn't done properly you only notice the resolution loss during high contrast tilts, where the interlace fields don't line up. Scenes like this are few anyway. the Vatican wall in MI3 is one.

The point is that 1080p output is not necessary to create a faithful representation of what is stored on the disc. 1080p is for the most part a marketing tool.

by nature the lcd tv and plasma are p sets they scan every line if res unlike tube tv where they scan every other line.

Sorry, guess I need HD for dummies. Can you describe "judder" in simpler terms?

In simple terms? Hmm, I'm an engineer, but I'll give it a try.

Movies are recorded at 24 frames per second.
If your TV is 1080i, then it is showing you an interlaced picture 60 times a second. 1920x540 odd lines, followed by 1920x540 even lines. (De-interlacing them, you get a full de-interlaced 1920x1080 frame 30 times a second, but lets talk 60 at first.)

60 and 24 are not exactly the same thing and aren't integer multiples of each other.

Ideally, each frame should be displayed for exactly 1/24 of a second. Basic math: 2/24 = 3/60 + 2/60 When alternating frames are shown for 3/60 of a second and 2/60 of a second, it is kinda close to the original rate that it was recorded at. If you have a smaller tv, it may just all blur together. The "3" and "2" in the numerators refer to the number of times that each frame is repeated, and that is where "3:2 pulldown" gets its name.

But also remember that 1080i is at 60 fps, but it is only half of the picture. The "2/60" will give you one complete de-interlaced frame. The "3/60" will give you one and a half de-interlaced frames. Can you say "yuck"? This is what you will get with 1080i displaying 24 fps material. Each 1/60th of a second you would see:
frame 1 even lines
frame 1 odd lines
frame 1 even lines
frame 2 odd lines
frame 2 even lines
frame 3 odd lines
frame 3 even lines
frame 3 odd lines
frame 4 even lines
frame 4 odd lines
...
There are times your tv will be de-interlacing between neighboring frames.

If you have a good player with proper de-interlacing and 1080p60 output, you will still have 3:2 judder but you wouldn't have the even/odd madness with neighboring frames being deinterlaced together. With 1080p, each 1/60th of a second you would see:
frame 1 even & odd lines
frame 1 even & odd lines
frame 1 even & odd lines
frame 2 even & odd lines
frame 2 even & odd lines
frame 3
frame 3
frame 3
frame 4
frame 4
...

I hope this doesn't ruin movie watching for you. Sometimes too much information can be bad, like knowing how a magician does his "tricks", and then you are no longer impressed with it. :)

Is upgrading the firmware just as easy on an HD-DVD or more involved?

easier. much easier.

If you have access to your router (or using a wireless bridge) the player will download firmware from the internet.

Or, you can make a burned CD with the firmware just like most BD players. That's something your average person will never do, though.

easier. much easier.

If you have access to your router (or using a wireless bridge) the player will download firmware from the internet.

Or, you can make a burned CD with the firmware just like most BD players. That's something your average person will never do, though.

Take that with one small grain of salt. By default, the Toshiba HD DVD players do not use DHCP to get their IP address or to identify the DNS server. If you leave these default settings in place, you'll get the dreaded "Could not find out server" message when you try to upgrade the firmware. Once you go into the player settings and turn on DHCP configuration for IP address and DNS server, everything will be good.

I'll never understand why Toshiba didn't make that the default setting. Windows XP & Vista and PS3s do that by default, and I'm sure plenty of other things do.

easier. much easier.

If you have access to your router (or using a wireless bridge) the player will download firmware from the internet.

Or, you can make a burned CD with the firmware just like most BD players. That's something your average person will never do, though.

My computer is nowhere near where i would keep the player so i'll have to go with the disc. Can I get a free one from Toshiba or it can only be burned?