Why has neither HD-dvd or BR dealt a death blow in the format war? I would like for one format and when (if) that happens that equals more catalog titles and more new releases and best of all unity of the hd community.

Well if you believe the things people on AVSForum say, HD-DVD has already dealt the death blow with the WM players. They also dealt the death blow back when Paramount went exclusive too. Oh yeah almost forgot, they also dealt the death blow a week ago when the Nielsen numbers were 51:49. I know I'm forgetting other death blows given in the past...

I think either side would if they could!

Why has neither HD-dvd or BR dealt a death blow in the format war? I would like for one format and when (if) that happens that equals more catalog titles and more new releases and best of all unity of the hd community.What would you have them do? Seriously. What do you define as a "death blow"?

I'm as ready as anyone for this format war to end, but I'm sooo tired of reading about who is going to be the one to end it. :mad:

Because you have big bucks and big companies on both sides. This isn't like DVD-A vs. SACD or VHS vs. Betamax or DVD vs. Divx. You have major movie studios on both sides, major electronics companies on both sides, Microsoft and Sun Microsystems competing for the interactive technologies, and each sides seems to dig in more whenever the other makes a move.

Because you have big bucks and big companies on both sides. This isn't like DVD-A vs. SACD or VHS vs. Betamax or DVD vs. Divx. You have major movie studios on both sides, major electronics companies on both sides, Microsoft and Sun Microsystems competing for the interactive technologies, and each sides seems to dig in more whenever the other makes a move.

Exactly

You have dozens of big companies on both sides wanting their format choice to win for different reasons.
In the end, the consumer will decide, but I don't think there will be any death blow. Both will continue to survive for years and years.

I think Blu-Ray has a slight advantage with more studio support. Which, at the end of the day, will probaby drive consumer adoption.

Parents want Disney, and Having Fox/Sony/Lionsgate and WB makes it a well rounded choice. But, price of player is key for adoption, hence why HD-DVD is attractive. But even at $100 for a player, if you don't find more then 10 movies you even want to buy, that will kill HD-DVD in the end unless they can get more studio support.

However, as log as players remain cheap, and both sides keep crankin out top quality discs, you will find both around for years to come. No matter what minor changes to studio/manufacturing happen.

What would you have them do? Seriously. What do you define as a "death blow"?

I'm as ready as anyone for this format war to end, but I'm sooo tired of reading about who is going to be the one to end it. :mad:

I was thinking about titles. MORE movies and more highly requested titles. I don't want to go into naming titles but there are easily 10-20 for either side that could sway buyers. Studios that are one sided should be capitalizing on this so their supporting format can win.
I just want it to end as it is too expensive.

Exactly
Parents want Disney,
.

Most small kids do not care if there cartoons are in HD, I think the importance of Disney having HD for children is highly over rated. Tech savy parents may want Disney in HD for themselves but children could care less what resolution Disney material is in.

Exactly

You have dozens of big companies on both sides wanting their format choice to win for different reasons.
In the end, the consumer will decide, but I don't think there will be any death blow. Both will continue to survive for years and years.

I think Blu-Ray has a slight advantage with more studio support. Which, at the end of the day, will probaby drive consumer adoption.

Parents want Disney, and Having Fox/Sony/Lionsgate and WB makes it a well rounded choice. But, price of player is key for adoption, hence why HD-DVD is attractive. But even at $100 for a player, if you don't find more then 10 movies you even want to buy, that will kill HD-DVD in the end unless they can get more studio support.

However, as log as players remain cheap, and both sides keep crankin out top quality discs, you will find both around for years to come. No matter what minor changes to studio/manufacturing happen.

I agree parents want Disney but not on HD Format. Parents will refuse to pay $27 and up for a BR Disney movie when is $14 on SD DVD.

Except for people like us who pay that money. The average family WILL NOT.

Prices for HD movies need to come way down.

but I'm sooo tired of reading about who is going to be the one to end it. :mad:

Yes, indeed. I wish there could be a separate section devoted only to the "war" discussion so that these current sections could be devoted to players and software.

both sides had their chance.

If HD DVD had $250 players and kept a steady flow of good movies coming when blu-ray was JUST picking up steam, they probably would've knocked blu-ray out. But for some reason, Toshiba/Universal didn't put it in high gear. Plus Toshiba's greedy.


If blu-ray had cheaper players and movies, they probably would've knocked HD DVD out. Plus Sony's greedy.

I just want it to end as it is too expensive.

If it ends, likely it gets more expensive.

If it ends, likely it gets more expensive.

No doubt, I say keep swinging, maybe next month it's $49 players.

You are smart! I like you. I don't know why stupid people want just 1 format while we can enjoy these prices. Think about it people...for 1 second.

If it ends, likely it gets more expensive.

Well if you believe the things people on AVSForum say, HD-DVD has already dealt the death blow with the WM players. They also dealt the death blow back when Paramount went exclusive too. Oh yeah almost forgot, they also dealt the death blow a week ago when the Nielsen numbers were 51:49. I know I'm forgetting other death blows given in the past...


Thats because Sony has annouced themselves the winner 6 or 8 times, yet Toshiba and HD DVD have not gone away.

You are smart! I like you. I don't know why stupid people want just 1 format while we can enjoy these prices. Think about it people...for 1 second.Eventually there will need to be one format to replace DVD or both formats will remain niche. Cinephiles and AV enthusiasts are not the market, unfortunately.

Eventually there will need to be one format to replace DVD or both formats will remain niche. Cinephiles and AV enthusiasts are not the market, unfortunately.

Yes, lots of short term thinking on these threads...

Once WB decides on one format or the other, a new part of the war will come - if BD, the war will end, if HD, we'll just be at another stalemate.

What would you have them do? Seriously. What do you define as a "death blow"?

I'm as ready as anyone for this format war to end, but I'm sooo tired of reading about who is going to be the one to end it. :mad:

Friday's fire sale was the biggest move in this war to date. 2 months down the road, it could easily cause HD DVD to pull even with BD. 2 months is a long ways away, but I think HD DVD is making the smarter moves atm. One thing that is certain, however: Microsoft $ > Sony $. And even amongst the AV-philes (I won't call them cinephiles, b/c the ave choice in film preference is sub-par :) ) there is more hatred for Sony than perhaps any other company, with good reason and despite a handful of clearly wonderful products (I love my PS3, and would really like a Bravia...etc).

I have a "meager" 22 BDs and 0 HD DVDs. I have an A2 on its way, and will be format neutral within the next week. I have a financial interest for Blu Ray to win, but I really don't care. HD DVD has been making the smarter moves for the past 3 months, despite being behind the sales numbers. Once Joe Shmo steps into the HD realm, expect this war to end. HD DVD has given him the first opportunity. If Blu Ray doesn't counter soon, then listen closely for their ever-fading whimper.

Once WB decides on one format or the other, a new part of the war will come - if BD, the war will end, if HD, we'll just be at another stalemate.

This one always cracks me up. "If Warner goes Blu, HD DVD dies...if Warner goes red, stalemate".

If Warner goes either way, the war is decided. Game over.

This one always cracks me up. "If Warner goes Blu, HD DVD dies...if Warner goes red, stalemate".

If Warner goes either way, the war is decided. Game over.

I found that logic funny as well - and I'm on the Blu side.
It's almost as if it's a preemptive denial. If Warner goes HD DVD exclusive it will take significant jumps in support from the remaining BR studios just to come close to matching the number of HD DVD releases.

So far we have 378 BR releases and 346 HD DVD releases.

Let's assume for a second that the total number of HDM titles put out by each studio remains the same for next year. (or at very least the same precentage ratio comparing studio to studio).

Out of that 378 releases 33 are Paramount/Dreamworks, and 88 are Warner.
Warner second only to Sony (89 titles). So in this scenario we would have 257 BR titles vs 346 HD DVD titles.


Losing Warner would be a death nail to either format. Warner has 110 HD DVD tiles incidentally.

Once WB decides on one format or the other, a new part of the war will come - if BD, the war will end, if HD, we'll just be at another stalemate.

I wouldn't say that either. HD-DVD will continue with support from Universal, Paramount, Dreamworks, MTV Films, Weinstein Company and New Line. Now if others follow Warner such as Universal I might go along with HD-DVD having its last breath.

Most small kids do not care if there cartoons are in HD, I think the importance of Disney having HD for children is highly over rated. Tech savy parents may want Disney in HD for themselves but children could care less what resolution Disney material is in.

Do you have kids? My kids are mesmerized by the movies even more. "Meet the Robinson's for starters". I have a 4 year old and a 7 year old, and as a Parent I like the fact you can take these discs scratch the crap out of them and they still work... My 4 year old did a self test on a few discs already. So I guess my kids can tell the difference... Plus lets face it the cartoons look fantastic in HD...

lilstinky: Or since this is a Blu-Ray thread how about WB going Blu and then I would say HD-DVD had lost it's breath....... ;)

I do not post much, but read the forums alot. I am also probably in the minority.

I bought both the 360 and the PS3. I only have 1 game for the PS3 and replaced most of my small movie collection with BD and plan to buy more on Tuesday. I play mostly games on the 360.

I have always wanted an upconverting DVD player, but couldn't justify buying a standalone player. Once the PS3 received the upconverting fimware, I decided to hook the PS3 up with a HDMI cable and finally watched Talledega BD and Star Wars SD. I was floored by the picture on my Mitsubishi 1080p.

I picked BD because it was built in to the PS3 and did not require an extra purchase. The 360 requires another purchase for HD and is an external drive that would set on top of the 360, but is inferior to a stand alone HD player. I wonder what I would have chose if it was built into the 360?

My friend reads the forums also, and chose the PS3 for movies. He doesn't play games at all. Tonight he showed a movie to his mother and she liked it so much they went to BB before it closed and she purchased a PS3 for the same reason. Who would have thought a game machine could be such a great movie player?

I think Toshiba is in the same boat as Sony was when Beta was out. Sony was the only manufacturer for Beta, while VHS was being manufactured by all others. I also think that if the 360 had HD built in from the start, the story may be very different. Both formats look great, but quality of content will win out.

The death blow will probably come after the holidays.

Thanks all.

You are smart! I like you. I don't know why stupid people want just 1 format while we can enjoy these prices. Think about it people...for 1 second.

You have to think long term. Large subsidies are good for consumers but bad for manufacturers. If there's no money to be made they might just give up. If people are so concerned by price it'd be best if they just waited. The price will come down in a few years. Why does everything have to be done today?


While neither side has dealt a death blow, it can be argued that they have tried.
Toshiba have slashed prices from $1000 to $500 to $300 to $100 in less than two years.
Sony have bought a large share in MGM
Toshiba have rented Paramount and Dreamworks for 18 months
Toshiba have given away millions of free discs with players.

Really the BDA could do a lot more. I think they're just trying to let Toshiba burn itself out. The longer this goes on the more money Toshiba is throwing at it. One day they're just going to hold their hands up and call time. The BDA could get really aggressive now and slash prices to stupid levels and put their best titles out but doing so would tarnish the format, lose them money. They're playing the long game. If Toshiba win this thing they've basically screwed themselves. They've put themselves in a position where players will be $100 or less, either they're committing themselves to a loss making venture forever or they'll raise prices and then no one will buy. But of course they would have killed BD off in the process so the whole HDM thing will be ruined.

I think WB going BD exclusive is something that could really end this. WB might (should?) be getting totally annoyed by the whole situation. Having this war is costing them a packet as more and more people sit out waiting for a resolution. Perhaps they expected one format to be dead by now, perhaps they didn't anticipate a Toshiba fire sale. If they went Blu they have a shot at putting the next gen back on course and making more money than they get from two formats.

One thing I'm a little dismayed with is the number of titles from BD studios. I don't think they need to be putting out Universal numbers but there should be one release from Fox/MGM/SPHE/Disney/WB every week and perhaps 1 a month from the other studios. This month we've got 7 (WB), Sony (4), Disney (5), Fox (8), minor studios (6 releases from 5 studios). So out of them only Sony is releasing less than one a week and Disney isn't much better. I'm assuming that all titles have been announced for November.

Toshiba have rented Paramount and Dreamworks for 18 months


Proof? I mean real proof not NYT. A payout would be in either company's quarterly financial statements. I'm surprised no one has turned up any evidence:rolleyes:

You have to think long term. Large subsidies are good for consumers but bad for manufacturers. If there's no money to be made they might just give up. If people are so concerned by price it'd be best if they just waited. The price will come down in a few years. Why does everything have to be done today?


While neither side has dealt a death blow, it can be argued that they have tried.
Toshiba have slashed prices from $1000 to $500 to $300 to $100 in less than two years.
Sony have bought a large share in MGM
Toshiba have rented Paramount and Dreamworks for 18 months
Toshiba have given away millions of free discs with players.

Really the BDA could do a lot more. I think they're just trying to let Toshiba burn itself out.


Huh? Last time I checked Blu-Ray was doing alot more. They have 5 free titles with any Blu player just like Toshiba. They have been slashing player prices but started from a higher starting point. Sony has been dropping the price of the PS3 and having huge Blu-Ray disc sales and spending/ losing big bucks doing so just like Toshiba. Considering Toshiba has MS in its corner I doubt it will be burning out anytime soon. Now if MS decides to jump ship on HD-DVD then Toshiba will be screwed. If MS doesn't jump ship on Toshiba than both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD could do alot more. I sure hope so because it will be nothing but good times for us consumers. Especially the ones who support both.;)

Death Blow? HD DVD is trying... there are players under $100 now. The reasons it's not working for them are the same reasons Blu-ray has been outselling them since about a year ago; greater studio support (yes, even when Paramount jumped ship).

Death Blow? HD DVD is trying... there are players under $100 now. The reasons it's not working for them are the same reasons Blu-ray has been outselling them since about a year ago; greater studio support (yes, even when Paramount jumped ship).

Well I'd wait through the holiday at the very least before you try judge the impact of the price drops. It hasn't even been a week yet.

You have to think long term. Large subsidies are good for consumers but bad for manufacturers. If there's no money to be made they might just give up. If people are so concerned by price it'd be best if they just waited. The price will come down in a few years. Why does everything have to be done today?


While neither side has dealt a death blow, it can be argued that they have tried.
Toshiba have slashed prices from $1000 to $500 to $300 to $100 in less than two years.
Sony have bought a large share in MGM
Toshiba have rented Paramount and Dreamworks for 18 months
Toshiba have given away millions of free discs with players.

Really the BDA could do a lot more. I think they're just trying to let Toshiba burn itself out. The longer this goes on the more money Toshiba is throwing at it. One day they're just going to hold their hands up and call time. The BDA could get really aggressive now and slash prices to stupid levels and put their best titles out but doing so would tarnish the format, lose them money. They're playing the long game. If Toshiba win this thing they've basically screwed themselves. They've put themselves in a position where players will be $100 or less, either they're committing themselves to a loss making venture forever or they'll raise prices and then no one will buy. But of course they would have killed BD off in the process so the whole HDM thing will be ruined.

I think WB going BD exclusive is something that could really end this. WB might (should?) be getting totally annoyed by the whole situation. Having this war is costing them a packet as more and more people sit out waiting for a resolution. Perhaps they expected one format to be dead by now, perhaps they didn't anticipate a Toshiba fire sale. If they went Blu they have a shot at putting the next gen back on course and making more money than they get from two formats.

One thing I'm a little dismayed with is the number of titles from BD studios. I don't think they need to be putting out Universal numbers but there should be one release from Fox/MGM/SPHE/Disney/WB every week and perhaps 1 a month from the other studios. This month we've got 7 (WB), Sony (4), Disney (5), Fox (8), minor studios (6 releases from 5 studios). So out of them only Sony is releasing less than one a week and Disney isn't much better. I'm assuming that all titles have been announced for November.

Hogwash...Back up the truck...Blue-ray's dead - it just doesn't know it yet. It's just gonna take a little longer for its backers to jump ship.
Toshiba kicked Sony in "a very important place" with the $98 "sale of the century" and will keep kicking for the remainder of this quarter.
What's the BDAs response? Lets reduce the PS3 to a MERE $400...a "bone" if you will for the masses? Well....the BDAs got to do better than that!!!! But can they? Once you reduce Blu-ray players to below $200 for a sale, you just can't raise em back up to $500 next month - it just doesn't work that way!
So...consumers will continue to buy the reasonably priced Toshiba players. The BDA will continue to cry "foul" and try to convincingly explain why the general public should buy their product even if it is much more expensive because of extra bits (or is it bytes) and has a few more studeos. GOOD LUCK! BTW I just heard that, on the Blu-ray side, BATTLE OF BRITAIN has been postponed to some later date. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I was hoping to get this as an import. What's the A2 selling for in the UK?

Death Blow? HD DVD is trying... there are players under $100 now. The reasons it's not working for them are the same reasons Blu-ray has been outselling them since about a year ago; greater studio support (yes, even when Paramount jumped ship).


On top of the fact BR is much better media. BR needs to lower prices on players BIG time. If they put out a $200 BR player and got Warner exclusive, good bye hd dvd. I will gladly toss my A2 from my deck when hd dvd dies. I don't want a 30gb disc beating a 50gb disc because of player price.

Bluray isn't going anywhere for a long long time. If anyone thinks differently, they are delusional. Sony and Disney will continue exclusive support for years, regardless of what hd dvd does. Hd dvd doesn't have that loyalty with studios and has no way to stop them from going BR exclusive.

Death Blow? HD DVD is trying... there are players under $100 now. The reasons it's not working for them are the same reasons Blu-ray has been outselling them since about a year ago; greater studio support (yes, even when Paramount jumped ship).

They jumped ship because a very large amount of $ was the reason. I don't think they care who wins or loose, at the end the studios always win.
I personally think they sold their soul to the devil.
In a long run it is the sales of DVD's not players that put money in their pockets.
Also the fight is to the death and half of us will eventually die

They jumped ship because a very large amount of $ was the reason. I don't think they care who wins or loose, at the end the studios always win.
I personally think they sold their soul to the devil.
In a long run it is the sales of DVD's not players that put money in their pockets.
Also the fight is to the death and half of us will eventually die


Uhh you guys take this stuff WAY to seriously, there is no fight to the death and half of us will not die, it's a freakin piece of plastic that plays movies, some of you act like you are on someone's payroll about this stuff.

I'd almost be willing to buy and giveaway free BR players if it meant I didn't have to hear/read the whining about the alleged Paramount payoff again.

Hogwash...Back up the truck...Blue-ray's dead - it just doesn't know it yet. It's just gonna take a little longer for its backers to jump ship.
Toshiba kicked Sony in "a very important place" with the $98 "sale of the century" and will keep kicking for the remainder of this quarter.
What's the BDAs response? Lets reduce the PS3 to a MERE $400...a "bone" if you will for the masses? Well....the BDAs got to do better than that!!!! But can they? Once you reduce Blu-ray players to below $200 for a sale, you just can't raise em back up to $500 next month - it just doesn't work that way!
So...consumers will continue to buy the reasonably priced Toshiba players. The BDA will continue to cry "foul" and try to convincingly explain why the general public should buy their product even if it is much more expensive because of extra bits (or is it bytes) and has a few more studeos. GOOD LUCK! BTW I just heard that, on the Blu-ray side, BATTLE OF BRITAIN has been postponed to some later date. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I was hoping to get this as an import. What's the A2 selling for in the UK?

The drugs you are on must be really powerful.

Apparently the Blu-Ray companies don't feel they have to give away their stuff in order to survive. Toshiba does. This is a discontinued product which they obviously have tons of leftover BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T SELL THEM. Do you know how cheap you could buy a Chevette when they discontinued them? Real cheap. Doesn't mean they were any good.

The next step for Toshiba is to start selling all of their players at a major loss in order to take over control of the market. That way they can raise to prices to whatever they want later. Just FYI, this is known as "dumping", and is technically illegal. But I'm sure that won't stop them. Of course, if they intentionally overproduced the "discontinued" unit just so they could sell them cheap, then they've already crossed that line.

The drugs you are on must be really powerful.

Apparently the Blu-Ray companies don't feel they have to give away their stuff in order to survive. Toshiba does. This is a discontinued product which they obviously have tons of leftover BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T SELL THEM. Do you know how cheap you could buy a Chevette when they discontinued them? Real cheap. Doesn't mean they were any good.

The next step for Toshiba is to start selling all of their players at a major loss in order to take over control of the market. That way they can raise to prices to whatever they want later. Just FYI, this is known as "dumping", and is technically illegal. But I'm sure that won't stop them. Of course, if they intentionally overproduced the "discontinued" unit just so they could sell them cheap, then they've already crossed that line.

First off you can make points with out telling people they are on drugs. It adds nothing ot the discussion.
Secondly the vast majority of players on both end are "discontinued". Is discontinued some new talking point? Because the PS3 60GB is discontinued. A lot of HD DVD supporters called their price drops a fire sale as well. I saw a (discontinued) BDP-1200 at best buy for $230 - is that illegal also? Or maybe a price drop is just a freakin price drop. The venom over this price drop is unreal. I would imagine if there was a price drop that brought a BR splayer just under $200 before an HD DVD player we would have "red guys" blasting the same song. But it would still be singing out of tune.

Uhh you guys take this stuff WAY to seriously, there is no fight to the death and half of us will not die, it's a freakin piece of plastic that plays movies, some of you act like you are on someone's payroll about this stuff.

thank you.

The drugs you are on must be really powerful.

Apparently the Blu-Ray companies don't feel they have to give away their stuff in order to survive. Toshiba does.


LOL! I don't know where to start with this post? I guess all these Blu-Rays I bought on the cheap don't count.:rolleyes:

LOL! I don't know where to start with this post? I guess all these Blu-Rays I bought on the cheap don't count.:rolleyes:

Amen stinky! Bring on the freebies!!

The drugs you are on must be really powerful.

Apparently the Blu-Ray companies don't feel they have to give away their stuff in order to survive. Toshiba does. This is a discontinued product which they obviously have tons of leftover BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T SELL THEM. Do you know how cheap you could buy a Chevette when they discontinued them? Real cheap. Doesn't mean they were any good.

The next step for Toshiba is to start selling all of their players at a major loss in order to take over control of the market. That way they can raise to prices to whatever they want later. Just FYI, this is known as "dumping", and is technically illegal. But I'm sure that won't stop them. Of course, if they intentionally overproduced the "discontinued" unit just so they could sell them cheap, then they've already crossed that line.

LOL...I take "reality" pills.
What you call "dumping" I call aggresive selling. You should have bought the A2 at $98. This sale represents a breakthrough which I didn't think would happen so soon. The A3 will also be aggresively priced as well.
I read somewhere that Walmart bought these sale players well in advance.
But I hope your right about Blur-ray company's sticking by their guns and keeping their prices high. The war will be over that much sooner.:p
BTW...what's a Chevette? Is it like a...classic?

Amen stinky! Bring on the freebies!!

Thats right! This lil stinker is all about cheap movies and cheap players.

LOL...I take "reality" pills.
What you call "dumping" I call aggresive selling. You should have bought the A2 at $98. This sale represents a breakthrough which I didn't think would happen so soon. The A3 will also be aggresively priced as well.
I read somewhere that Walmart bought these sale players well in advance.
But I hope your right about Blur-ray company's sticking by their guns and keeping their prices high. The war will be over that much sooner.:p
BTW...what's a Chevette? Is it like a...classic?

Sounds like your pissing on the wrong side of the fence again! ;)