Hi;

I just had an installer upgrade my dish from the oval 3 LNB dish to the new 5 LNB monster to support my new HR21 HD DVR (replacing an R15). I had planned to keep my SAT-W60 around as well, since it's the best DVR ever.

But it seems dead now. It comes up, but gets no signal on either tuner.

I tried leaving it unplugged for a few minutes and then bringing it back up, but it still doesn't see any signal.

Would could have possibly happened during the course of a dish upgrade to take out my UTV like this?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Simple things first.

Are the Sony UTV tuner cables connected to the Multi-Switch? Is the Multi-Switch powered? Have you tested the Sony on the HR21 HD DVR's tuner cables? It might be possible the connections weren't properly connected during install.

Have you tested/changed the various LNB settings in the UTV Setup screen? Have you checked signal strength? I don't have the new "5 LNB" dish unit... But I'd suspect you're going to want to try the 3 or 2 LNB settings and see if that gives you better results.

Nothing changed inside during the install. Four cables basically just got cut off the old dish and attached to the new one. Both receivers were up and operating immediately before. When the cables were attached to the new dish, the HR21 came up but the UTV did not.

I suggested the installer use his signal strength meter to verify signal on the UTV cables, which he did and they checked okay. I then tried switching one of the HR21 cables to the UTV. No change.

I went through the setup screens and tried changing various things but nothing would get me a signal from the new dish.

The installer suggested I call tech support. After explaining everything I had done, tech support decided that the UTV had in fact died and they would be happy to send me a new DirecTV DVR to replace it. They were "very sorry". Yeah. Thanks a lot.

I asked if there was any reason the UTV would be incompatible with the new dish. They assured me the new dish was completely backward compatible and that could not be the problem.

Next I tried letting the UTV sit, unplugged, for about an hour. That did nothing as well.

The only other thing I could think of was to reinstall the old 3-LNB dish, since that was the only thing that changed. This was against the advice of both the installer and DTV tech support. But it was my time and I could waste it if I wanted to. Right?

The old mast was still there so I just put a couple of pig-tails on the dish and put it back up. I removed the two cables from the new dish that go to the UTV and attached them to the pig-tails on the old dish. Then I reset the UTV and brought up the signal strength screen. After a bit of tweaking on the old dish, I got signal strengths of 95/95.

Life is good.

So, the bottom line is this:

The Sony SAT-W60 UTV is incompatible with the new 5-LNB dish.

I called DTV tech support back and told them this. After a lengthy time on hold, the agent confirmed it to be true. Too bad no one knew this up front.

After doing a search I realized the "5 LNB" issue has been around awhile. So I guess "Don't upgrade to the 5 LNB while using a UTV"... unless there is a fix... Anyone?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=907835 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=907835&highlight=new+LNB+dish)
There is a link inside the above link... that takes you to a 3.8 upgrade topic that also mentions the 5 LNB problem.

If you happen to still have the "old" Multi-Switch would that maybe "dumb down" the 5 LNB feed (Just for feeding the UTV/Standard Receivers?)... I know there is an "advanced" mode in the UTV settings (during the setup screens) that allows you to "probe" the Multi-Switch for various Sat signals...

Have you tried this "Advanced" setting to see if the multi-switch (old or new),or none, registers DTV signals after a "probe"?

The new 5 LNB dish has the multi-switch integrated into the LNB pack. My 3 LNB dish does as well. I had to replace my older 3 LNB dish a couple of years ago because the multi-switch failed and buying a new dish was cheaper then replacing the switch.

I did try the Advanced multi-switch scan on the UTV and it didn't find the dish either.

I'm perfectly happy having to use both dishes. The part I am unhappy about is that neither the installer or D* Tech Support knew about the issue. Had I not ignored them telling me it couldn't be the dish, or if I wasn't capable or reinstalling the old dish myself, my UTV would be dead now.

Got to love/question when doing "troubleshooting" ,regardless what it is, a person tells you something that worked perfectly until they changed something else (seemingly unrelated) is the problem.

I particularly love "Bad Gasoline" and Bad Sensor/Sending Unit issues (for autos). Techs will come up with all kinds of stuff (maybe even charge for them) and it's just a clogged up fuel filter or a bad ($5) sensor... not a $600 Instrument Panel or Emissions Control System problem... :)

Always start with the simplest things and by elimination figure out what is OK and what isn't...(Is the unit plugged in? Power Supply Fuse? IDE Cable/Power Cable? Hard Drive spin up? Internal Fan spin up?,UTV OS Interface? etc. etc.)

I still remember a UTV user here that had moved the UTV to a switched (lights)outlet and couldn't understand why it was flashing green (and hadn't recorded anything overnight since it was last turned on).

There were plenty of Hard Drive and Tuner Failure suggestions... Checking the Power came later. A Circuit Breaker/Fuse,Wire Run,or Outlet Receptacle could be the problem but it is many times ignored if everything else is working alright...

Anyone with a 5 LNB dish/UTV and an "old" stand alone Multi-Switch want to test out if this might provide a UTV with a usable signal?

I read in the Directv HR20 series you need the new multiswitch with higher bandpass to work with mpeg-4. But I don't see how that would effect utv?

I am considering phasing out either one of my utv units or our Hughes HD unit for a new Directv HD unit.

Directv just called me tonight maybe I can answer the question in a few weeks? I think I will replace my Highes E-8 with a H20/H21 and the new mp4 disk with a 6/8 multi switch.

oth

Hi,
There must be something wrong with this guy’s setup as I am using my UTV with the latest 5 LNB slimline dish. I had the older, larger 5 LNB dish for over a year and it also worked fine with my UTV. I had the dish swapped due to bad LNB's. I currently am receiving signal strength of 95. My other equipment is the HR 20-700 HDDVR.
I am keeping my UTV until DirecTV switches all signals to MPEG 4/
Good Luck with this problem but the 5 LNB dish DOES work with UTV!

Tom G.
Milwaukee

Good Luck with this problem but the 5 LNB dish DOES work with UTV!

As I said above, the resolution was to hook the UTV back up to the old 3 LNB dish. That resolved the problem and it has been working fine ever since.

D* did eventually confirm that the 5 LNB dish was incompatible with the UTV so I don't think that is worth debating.

Well if it isn't broke don't fix it... use what works.

However, if SOME 5 LNBs work and others don't I'd say that is fair game... and as I'm sure we can all agree just because DTV "confirmed" the 5 LNB was incompatible... that doesn't mean they KNOW anything about it. They did "confirm" your UTV was DEAD until you put the old LNB back in service.

So for those with 5 LNB UTV problems and those that aren't... we need to know the details of your setup so we can determine what if any differences there are in the setups. Different gear, etc.

Tag4, it's great to hear that you have an UltimateTV working with a 5 lnb dish. What number of lnbs have you selected in the Hooking Up ==> Dish Pointing section of Settings? On that screen one can select 1, 2 or 3 lnbs.

Not sure how well the LNBs are marked (Make/Model/Serial #) but it'd be nice to know if DTV has several different 5 LNB dish setups out there. Newer/Older units act differently?

D* will replace my 3 lnb for a 5 lnb dish and swap out my Hughes E8 next month. Because I have an older rear projection hdtv without hdtv tuner I picked up a HR20 from CC because D* could not guarantee that installer would bring out a H20 or an H21.


oth

Okay, then for what it's worth, my new 5 LNB dish is the "Slim Line" model, with all 5 LNBs in one housing.

That is the one that won't work with my Sony SAT-W60 UTV.

I didn't realize there was more than one kind of 5 LNB dish.

Perhaps the ones that use a seperate 3 LNB pack and 2 LNB pack still work with the older units.

I didn't realize there was more than one kind of 5 LNB dish.

Perhaps the ones that use a seperate 3 LNB pack and 2 LNB pack still work with the older units.

I personally don't know if there are multiple versions of the 5 LNB dish out there... But I'd accept that there probably are various versions...

I personally don't know if there are multiple versions of the 5 LNB dish out there... But I'd accept that there probably are various versions...

There are at least two. The one I have has 1 pack of 5 LNBs with 3 feed horns. You can see it here: http://www.2000networks.com/accessories/dishes_lnbs/dish_slimline.html

There is also an older version with 2 LNB packs, one with 3 and one with 2 LNBs. You can see it here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Directv_5lnb_dish.jpg

Perhaps this older one works with older UTVs because the 3 LNB pack is the same as that on a 3 LNB dish. I don't know...

For Rambo,

My UTV set up is for one LNB one satellite in the hookup section of the menu. I don't know if Throck used this or not.

2nd point.... as I said before I have had both of the 5 lnb dishes and BOTH have worked for me.

The setup is four lines running into my house with nothing in between. 2 lines to the UTV and 2 lines to the HR 20-700 HD DVR.

Just wish the HD DVR had as good of an interface as the UTV.

TAG4
Milwaukee

Throck,

This is a Left Field type question but what UTV OS are you running? I'd find it hard to believe you are running anything less then 3.8 (current) but as I recall there were issues with Sat Configs in the (pre-3.5?) OSes.

This doesn't really jive because if there was an early OS running you'd have this problem on the 3 LNB but we should at least bury that avenue.

Yes, I'm running 3.8. I got the update back in September when it was sent.

I have the setup set for 3 LNBs.

Follow up:

I'm not sure, but I think I tried changing the setup to tell it just one LNB and it still didn't work.

FWIW - I have a 5 LNB Slimline dish with a Zinwell WB68 distributing the signals. My HR20, DirecTivo and my UTV are all connected and all work just fine. Not sure at the moment how I configured the UTV or what sw version it's currently on as it's in CA and I'm currently in IN. But I can definitely confirm that my UTV works just fine with the Slimline 5 LNB dish and has done so for nearly a year since the dish was installed.

Just a thought: did the installer connect B-Band converters to all the lines or just the new DVR? The UTV wouldn't need them and having them might be a potential cause of issues...

The installer didn't actually do or hook up anything inside the house. The Kb converters were on the HR21 when I bought it. I basically swapped the HD DVR in place of a pre-existing standard (R-15?) D* DVR. Both worked for a week or so still hooked up to the old 3 LNB dish, but I couldn't get the HD locals and various other HD channels.

The installer simply removed the old dish, mounted the new dish and hooked my 4 cables up to prewired pig-tails coming from the new dish.

I expected to have to unplug my UTV and plug it back in to get it to see the LNBs again since I have swapped dishes myself previously. But I did that and it just never saw the dish. I tried running the auto detect and that failed. I think I tried setting it for 2 LNBs and then 1 LNB and that failed too.

Remounting my old dish and swapping the two UTV cables over was the only thing that got it going again.

Both my RCA's came up on new 5lnb dish installed yesterday. They didn't read the installer notes ans forgot a muti-switch now I have to wait a month for service again. Since I couldn't hook up one of my UTV's I retired it. If they don't install the switch I'll retire the other one and save $20 a month. At least the new dish seems to perform well and it was aligned properly. At least I got a free H21 and dish upgrade, I will admit the mp4 hd isn't all that bad.

oth

oth,

I'm sad to hear your UTVs are being retired because you don't have enough cable runs. DTV is probably unhappy as well they couldn't just keep getting $15-20 a month for UTV unit services from you.

Correct me if I'm wrong but why can't DTV send you out a Multi-Switch by mail and just let you "plug-n-play" it into your existing system setup?

At the moment I've got 3 multi-switchs on my setup. A "main" 3x8, and two 3x4's (for 14 total usable feeds with 11 in use). The two 3x4s are feeding off the 3x8 at the wall plate, near one Entertainment Center feeding 5 DVRs (4 UTVs,1 DTivo with two UTVs running on only 1 good tuner each). The other two UTVs are feed directly from the 3x8 at other locations.

So in my setup if an installer had come in and forgot to replace a multi-switch... I could just plug one in. The last one I bought from Menard's (similar to The Home Depot) cost about $30. The most time I spent was in digging up RG6 cables to connect it up with.

It's an option if you don't want to wait a month for a switch that would only take a few minutes to install and get all or most of your "feed-less" DTV Receivers connected to the Sat again.

The two 3x4s are feeding off the 3x8 at the wall plate

:eek:

You can gang multi-switches? Really?

Can I rip up all the cables under my carpet and just leave one from the dish, then have a multi switch inside near my two DVRs?

Throck,

I'd call them Daisy Chaining (which might not be correct to say) but I think we are on the same page...

You will however NEED TWO Feeds from the LNB or a Multi-Switch... You can connect those feeds to another Multi-Switch which then gives you however many feeds it can provide. So using my 3x8 (3 inputs ((2 Sat and 1 Antenna or "Source" feed)) and 8 Outputs) with a 2x4 or 3x4 connected you'll have a total of 10 useable SAT feeds.

SO if you happen to have FOUR Cable runs going across the room to your TWO DVR setup... you might be able to go down to TWO and then with a Multi-Switch get the FOUR feeds right were you want them. Less clutter.

The only disadvantage to having a Multi-Switch connected to a Multi-Switch is there can be signal loss the more you "split" the signal. So a DIRECT feed from the LNB is best... the feed from a very long "multi-multi-switched" run might have a noticeably reduced signal strength.

In my setup I've got a few diplexer connections (combines/splits the Antenna/Sat feeds on a single cable) which for various reasons aren't as strong as "un-split" runs. If they are "Daisy Chained" or not doesn't seem to play a factor for me. My diplexer runs just have more "contact" points and longer distances to deal with...

I'd say my Multi-Multi-Switch setup is working very well... It is a Rat's Nest of cabling and could probably use some simplifying but it does work.

Depending on your setup Throck installing a Multi-Switch by your DVRs might be just the ticket to avoid a lumpy carpet.

Good Luck,

I'd call them Daisy Chaining (which might not be correct to say) ...I think the correct term is "cascaded" multi-switches. :) I used to have a setup similar to what lgodave describes. Bear in mind that you cannot do this with the newer receivers (like HR20) because they need to switch between all the satellites/LNB's. But if you are just wiring up mulitple UTV's, you can run them all from a multiswitch fed by just 2-wires, each of which then connects to another multiswitch. I'd point you too some good old theads on the topic, but I don't know what AVS did with all our old, archived posts. :( Also, lgodave, if you ever upgrade to the latest receivers you may have to change your diplexer arrangement. The Ka/Kb signal shifting now in use conflicts with OTA/Cable signals, unless you play games with the placement of items on the line.

If I'd spent a bit more time thinking about it... " "cascaded" multi-switches" has been the "correct" time I've heard used in the past... Back when I looked into cascading and diplexing my setup.

I hadn't considered the possible changes I'd need to make to my setup should I upgrade to a new dish setup... but I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea. I DO want to continue using my UTVs for the foreseeable future... I also don't really want to ADD extra cable runs (under the carpet or in the walls) if possible so I should probably plan ahead and maybe simplify/mark the various runs and figure out what is what.

I know I'd rather NOT have an installer mess with my setup so if I can get things arranged to avoid/reduce any outside tinkering I'll be happy. Probably help troubleshooting too if "they" ever need to figure out what I did.

FWIW - I have a 5 LNB Slimline dish with a Zinwell WB68 distributing the signals. My HR20, DirecTivo and my UTV are all connected and all work just fine. Not sure at the moment how I configured the UTV or what sw version it's currently on as it's in CA and I'm currently in IN. But I can definitely confirm that my UTV works just fine with the Slimline 5 LNB dish and has done so for nearly a year since the dish was installed.
I'll be finding out for myself how well it works on January 7th. I have an HR20 and slimline dish being installed that day and I plan to keep the UTV running on a secondary SD TV. I figure I can use it to prevent 3+ way conflicts and as a backup for some of the "must see" shows.

The new 5 LNB dish has the multi-switch integrated into the LNB pack. My 3 LNB dish does as well. I had to replace my older 3 LNB dish a couple of years ago because the multi-switch failed and buying a new dish was cheaper then replacing the switch.

I am getting Searching for signal on all receivers. i have a 3 LNB dish w/ a 4x8 multiswitch. I think the problem maybe either the multiswitch or a bad LNB. In either case from what you post above a new 3 LNB would solve the problem right?? My question is did you just swap out the LNB or is it a completely different Dish?? and are there any retail stores that sell just the LNB's or dishes??

got part of my answer hooked up old 2x8 multiswitch and got signal. so bad multiswitch.

I got mine at Circuit City for ~$99. I don't know if they still sell new 3 LNB dishes though.

I just bought a new 3 LNB dish with integrated Multi-Switch at Amazon.com for $75 delivered. It is the Terk. It is described as "18"x 20" DIRECTV® Satellite Dish Antenna with 3 Dual LNBs" and it is sold by Amazon.com.