Anyone Own a Sooloos Audiphile Music Server??? [Text View]

tyree91

11-07-07, 01:52 AM

We finally decided to go the server route. Our solution for now is an HP M series Media PC. The beauty of this unit is that the Mother Board has an SPDIF output. We connect it directly to the input board of our CasaBlanca III, and viola, Extreme Card Dacs to our Enterprises, Dread II, and Vandersteen Va's, V's, & VCC-5 w/ 2 SVS Ultra 13's. It's not quite a Compli, but it's very good. With an installed XFX 8800 GTS card with dual DVI output we can drag the Media Player right onto the projection screen @ 1080p, and access everything. A Denon 3808, which is serving as our HD DVD & Blu Ray Decoder, networks everything all over the property. Cool, and not costly. I've got all my Jazz, Rock, Vocals, Classics, and misc. ripped already, all in lossless WAV. Just my wife's extensive
C & W to go. I'll need about 750 Gig to store the music. USB makes that easy and cheap.
Tonight I listened to 4 versions of "I've Got You Under My Skin" by Sinatra followed by same done by Diana Krall Live In Paris. Followed that with "Jamaica Farewell" Belefonte Live @ Carnegie. Then Blu Ray "House of Flying Daggers" in lossless PCM from the Denon Pre Outs into the Six Shooter. What fun this is.

fletch999

11-07-07, 09:45 AM

Or, what about the Squeezebox Transporter? All you need is the data in WAV or whatever, "audiophile" DACs, well made unit, etc etc. No 12k UI, but at 2k, you get a VERY solid media player. Is it about getting the music to your ears, or is it about a 12k 17" touchscreen to access it?

marcb

11-07-07, 01:24 PM

Is there any other way to copy cds to the server without paying someone or doing it one cd at a time- are there professional devices you can rent to speed the process that can load hundreds of cds without actually standing there? I think that is one of the biggest drawbacks to all these devices including the sooloos. In addition to the high cost of the sooloos I wouldn't want pay to load my 1200+ cds. It does look nice and simple to use- a big plus so even my wife could would use it.

Alimentall

11-07-07, 01:36 PM

I don't know about Sooloos, but I have multiple computers for those of our customers that need their music loaded. We line up a few small external drives attached to computers and we can do about 30-50 CDs an hour and get it done quickly. Then we transfer to one big drive. I don't know if Sooloos allows for that or uses a computer or what. Kinda why I'm curious what the system does and how.

Alimentall

11-07-07, 01:39 PM

LOL! I like that so much better than attempting to debate the issue. Game set and match.

Yes, a vacuous, flippant response always better than a knowledgeable, cogent response. :rolleyes: It's like flipping a chess board and then telling Garry Kasparov you won.

Dizzman

11-07-07, 04:04 PM

OK john, lets enter the painful stupid debate over

Sonos vc Kaleidescape/Sooloos
Universal remote/Harmony vs Crestron AMX

or add any other you like here.

the plain and simple fact is that you constantly prove by your responses here that you feel easy is defined by YOUR experience. this is not the case. when a TRUE end user wants to use something, they want to walk in and have it just work

they may (depending on the complexity of the system) want MANY things to happen and for those things to affect others. many of these things you may feel are stupid or un needed. this is fine, but it still does not explain why they ARE needed for others.

Why is I Tunes so popular? is the ipod the best device? No. Is the software the best software? No. however the WHOLE PACKAGE of i tune, i pod and i store is the easiest overall experience.

With a little training.. anybody can work with a universal remotre, this is true. but that whole training thing is the kicker. when i brought home a K, i left my wife with a remote and no training and she figured it out. I suspect sooloos is the same. with both of these, you plug in a CD or pay to have it ripped and everything is there, including a VERY well designed totally graphical UI.

SO you can rant and rave about the waste of money, but for those who see thiese types of things and GET THEM!!!! they are willing to spend the money. and in many cases those who have the kind of coin to buy these are not dumb people and they do value money. and they value an experience. And these products give that experience.

So while you may think it is a waste, there are plenty of business models to show that you are wrong.

QQQ

11-07-07, 04:17 PM

Yes, a vacuous, flippant response always better than a knowledgeable, cogent response. :rolleyes: It's like flipping a chess board and then telling Garry Kasparov you won.
Sometimes a purposefully vacuous flippant response is the best one in response to a vacuous argument. It's abundantly obvious that they are two distinct products with very different niches.

Alimentall

11-07-07, 06:21 PM

Why is I Tunes so popular? is the ipod the best device? No. Is the software the best software? No. however the WHOLE PACKAGE of i tune, i pod and i store is the easiest overall experience.

That's my point. Sonos, IMO, has provided people with the best, easiest overall experience when it comes to playing back music, this because of really good design, software, remote interface. The questions is, how does Sooloos improve on that? Or is it just different?

SO you can rant and rave about the waste of money, but for those who see thiese types of things and GET THEM!!!! they are willing to spend the money. and in many cases those who have the kind of coin to buy these are not dumb people and they do value money. and they value an experience. And these products give that experience.

I think you're jumping to conclusions here. The system is very expensive, how does the experience differ from Sonos? It's a question, not a statement.

Alimentall

11-08-07, 11:25 AM

Sometimes a purposefully vacuous flippant response is the best one in response to a vacuous argument. It's abundantly obvious that they are two distinct products with very different niches.

If that were true, why did they practically copy the Sonos name? Surely that's not a coincidence!

So what are the distinct differences?

yetis

11-08-07, 11:40 AM

Well, if it ever comes out, how about Naim's Naim Net system. WAV, Lossless, whatever audio distribution via CAT 5e. Seems infinity scalable, doesn't require a "special" control panel and you can stack as much storage on the back, as you want. You can integrate the system into a naim system, netstream home automation system or into your current system stand alone and you can decide how "audiophile " crazy you want to be depend on the grade of server you purchase...

FrantzM

11-08-07, 11:54 AM

yetis

11-08-07, 01:41 PM

A not so popular question to answer in this debate... How does the damn thing sound? The SONOS sounds OK on a good system not superlative.

It takes a while to figure out how to burn a disc with Windows Media .. Took me less than 30 secs to find the "burn CD" button on the iTunes..
Same with the Kscape it just flows ... No universal remote I know can replace the fluidity of the Kdescape interface... They(Universal Remote amd KScape Interface) perform the same functions, then again... so do a Yugo and a Maybach

Good point though I wonder how many people need (want$) a system that can perform the actually ripping of the data. I use exact audio copy for the process. I have a media rack PC with 4 optical drives (why not a $40 a pop). Every once in a while I will "catch up" duplicating a stack with a free couple hours. Actually, one of them is a combo Bluray/HD-DVD player, but it still works!
I have even gone a little Valhalla on the media PC, wrapping/isolating parts, areas to reduce some of the electronic noise in the PC. I don't think it matters for the ripping process, just the play back process.

Alimentall

11-08-07, 02:07 PM

A not so popular question to answer in this debate... How does the damn thing sound? The SONOS sounds OK on a good system not superlative.

Well, it is recommendable to use a good DAC rather than the analog out. At that point, there should be no difference between it and any other good transport.

I imagine that Sooloos has a much better analog section and the touch screen interface might be quite a bit of fun. That being said, the Sonos is very easy to use and has digital outputs for those who demand better sound, so it's hard to fault in that regard. It's always good to have more of this stuff, but people seem to have a hard time saying what Sooloos worth that much. I'm sure it will appeal to some audiophiles and probably high-end custom installers because of the Crestron/AMX compatibility. Not sure it makes it *worth* that much money to more than a few very wealthy people though.

FrantzM

11-08-07, 02:36 PM

Alimentall

I am not at the outset saying the Soolos is better than the SONOS, I, too, find the "proximity" of names suspect. I do not know the Soolos system but prudently call the Jury out on this. I know the SONOS quite a bit. Good, practical and decent but not a superlative product neither in sonic performance or user interface. There is a lot of room for improvement in the SONOS.

I am not of the opinion that all transports are the same... I know bits should be bits, but bits are an abstraction subjected to a clocking reference. My transport and DAC are slaved to each other and this makes a difference in the sound in my system to my ears, YMMV.

There is really not much one can tell from their web site but I would not dismiss a product I have not seen or experienced..

Alimentall

11-08-07, 06:23 PM

I would not dismiss a product I have not seen or experienced..

Where's the fun it THAT? :)

GrosseFatigue II

11-17-07, 11:58 AM

The Sooloos and the QSONIX music server are reviewed in the December edition of The Absolute Sound. There is also a step by step guide to turning your pc to a music server. As I said before, where are Krell and Meridian?? They should have invented the music server.

www.qsonix.com

Alimentall

11-17-07, 09:48 PM

The expertise to do a music server is entirely different from amps or preamps or even a CD player. Meridian had a prototype 800-based music server years and years ago that was supposed to go for nearly $20K, but it never shipped.

Now, one interesting thing an audiophile company could do is do a 4 or 6 zone chassis that has slots for Sonos ZP80s, DSP for room correction of each zone in the house, nice DACs and nice amps. That would be easy for them to do with Audyssey software.

yetis

12-11-07, 09:56 AM

Here are all the details on the Sooloos system.

http://www.audtek.com/pdf/Sooloos/Sooloos-Onesheets.pdf

What I really like is that you don't have to buy their fancy control panel and they will provide software if you want to load your own music via a PC connection and use a third party control system.

What I find puzzling is there is little difference between the cost of a Source One or Source Five module (the former having one audio output and the latter having 5 audio outputs). I would like to have Source One module in several locations, but this makes the system fairly heady when you have 5 or so. It's a weird structure, that's all I am saying.

Storage is storage, at least the box is really sexy and silent, so you don't have to dump it in your media closet, a really big win for me.

What I find REALLY interesting is that the Control:Bridge, (the rack mount system control module) has an HDMI and several other "video" connections. Making me think that the Sooloos has greater expectations, while none of the other Source items have video outputs.

rgbyhkr

12-11-07, 07:18 PM

What I find puzzling is there is little difference between the cost of a Source One or Source Five module (the former having one audio output and the latter having 5 audio outputs). I would like to have Source One module in several locations, but this makes the system fairly heady when you have 5 or so. It's a weird structure, that's all I am saying.

They have another source module called the Micro that is due to be released next year. As the name implies, it's a smaller source that has an analog and a digital out (kind of reminds me of a Sonos ZP80). Estimated retail is $1,500 when it ships.

What I find REALLY interesting is that the Control:Bridge, (the rack mount system control module) has an HDMI and several other "video" connections. Making me think that the Sooloos has greater expectations, while none of the other Source items have video outputs.

They are rumored to be working on video distribution, possibly to be demonstrated at CES. I think though that the video outs on the bridge are intended for a greater range of alternate control system compatability. VGA output could be used for a standard AMX/Crestron touchpanel, but the component and HDMI outs could alternatively be used for an OSD with navigation commands sent to the bridge through the RS-232 port. Video distribution would likely come in the form of additional source units with video outs.

Jeff

yetis

12-11-07, 09:18 PM

They have another source module called the Micro that is due to be released next year. As the name implies, it's a smaller source that has an analog and a digital out (kind of reminds me of a Sonos ZP80). Estimated retail is $1,500 when it ships.

They are rumored to be working on video distribution, possibly to be demonstrated at CES. I think though that the video outs on the bridge are intended for a greater range of alternate control system compatability. VGA output could be used for a standard AMX/Crestron touchpanel, but the component and HDMI outs could alternatively be used for an OSD with navigation commands sent to the bridge through the RS-232 port. Video distribution would likely come in the form of additional source units with video outs.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks. You seem to be in the know. I just heard from them and this seems pretty accurate. I really think this thing is pretty slick. They told me that they have been in communication with Netstreams but are promising nothing. It would seem to me that the IP basis of netstream would work hand and hand with this platform. I wonder if their affiliation with Naim-net will keep them from establishing an affiliation.

You are also right about the video outs.

Are you an owner and/or installer?

Thanks

rgbyhkr

12-12-07, 05:18 PM

Jeff, thanks. You seem to be in the know. I just heard from them and this seems pretty accurate. I really think this thing is pretty slick. They told me that they have been in communication with Netstreams but are promising nothing. It would seem to me that the IP basis of netstream would work hand and hand with this platform. I wonder if their affiliation with Naim-net will keep them from establishing an affiliation.

NetStreams has partnered with several audio server manufacturers, so it looks like they are not exclusive. There's more info on who they have partnered with and for what:

http://www.netstreams.com/streamnettech.aspx

It's a neat idea to allow for cross-platform integration so that the content can be kept in TCP/IP until it reaches the zone destination. For users that already had or planned to have a NetStreams distributed audio solution, it cuts down on the need for multiple Sooloos source units. Not sure how they handle the interface to control the server from the NetStreams panels or if you would be able to control those zones from the Soooos. Interesting if it happens though, nonetheless.

Are you an owner and/or installer?

No, I'm not either. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night... :p I'm just a really geeky guy who has been using digital music solutions for years. I've used Escient, Roku, Sonos, Kaleidescape, iTunes/AirTunes, etc. Lately I've been checking out Sooloos and Qsonix because of the tools they offer to make the most of your collection.

Every server and streamer product makes managing large libraries easier, but I'm intrigued by the idea of tools that can help me further explore or rediscover my collection. Like most folks, I wind up listening to the same stuff, even though my entire collection is a few clicks away. I've been using Pandora and I love the way that it helps me find new music. Now I'd like to have something that helps me further explore my existing collection. Qsonix offers AMG's Tapestry service for automatic playlist building while Sooloos makes use of expanded metadata from AMG to implement their "Focus" feature.

Jeff

yetis

12-12-07, 08:33 PM

I am fairly well versed in the Netstream system. I have been waiting forever, to get their Naim-Net gear out, but its just going to demo at CES and will not hit the stores until a couple months later. This Sooloos system has a far better UI then the Naim gear, but the Naim gear lets you use your own storage.

If Sooloos and Netstream could get it together, then I thing they would really be onto something. That said, I cannot believe that Sooloos would want an option out there that allowed you to skip using one of their three components.

I have been gently nudging Netstreams to look at Sooloos and Kalidescape the last couple weeks. My gentle nudging got me an email from their founder a last year, so I guess they listen!

jdcolombo

12-13-07, 08:04 AM

I must admit I don't understand all the hoopla over Sooloos and other music servers. For at least two years, I've used a Mac Macbook sitting on a shelf next to my equipment rack. I run a Toslink cable from the Macbook's digital output port to an outboard Musical Fidelity X-DAC v.3, which outputs to a MF A-5 integrated amp running a pair of Magnepan 1.6QR's. The system sounds terrific.

Using Front Row (Apple's media software interface), I can easily access a 1000-cd music collection stored on external hard drives in Apple Lossless format, as well as movies, podcasts, you name it. I can do this across the room using a simple Apple remote control or my Harmony 880. If I wanted to do so, I could add wireless touchscreen control to this system by buying an iPod Touch and installing a remote-control web service on my Macbook, which would then run everything over my 802.11n network. But using a plain old IR remote from my couch works stupendously.

The Absolute Sound just reviewed the SooLoos and two other servers that as far as I can tell do nothing better than my Macbook/iTunes/Front Row combo. Robert Harley said both should be connected to an outboard DAC, since both have lousy analog output. And instead of $12,000, my Macbook/X-DAC combo cost exactly $2200, and I get an actual usable computer as part of the deal.

Easy-to-use front ends are very valuable. But Apple has been doing "easy to use" for decades. So, Kal, would you do everyone a favor. If you're going to review the Sooloos, could you (after you're done with it), hook up an Apple Macbook to an external DAC, rip a couple of your favorite CD's to Apple Lossless, and then compare the user experience and sound quality with the $12,000 system? $10,000 in savings could buy an awful lot of CD's.

John Colombo

yetis

12-13-07, 09:03 AM

John, here is someone who tries to address your question.

http://www.sooloos.com/press/Sooloos-ToneAudio.pdf .http://www.sooloos.com/press/Sooloos-ToneAudio.pdf .

Alimentall

12-13-07, 10:35 AM

So, Kal, would you do everyone a favor. If you're going to review the Sooloos, could you (after you're done with it), hook up an Apple Macbook to an external DAC, rip a couple of your favorite CD's to Apple Lossless, and then compare the user experience and sound quality with the $12,000 system?

Or a Sonos system. Apple struggles against PCs for decades because they wanted to charge twice as much for the better interface. This is like 5 or 10 times as much. The Sonos interface isn't as *cool*, but it appears to be just as useable.

Kal Rubinson

12-13-07, 10:39 AM

So, Kal, would you do everyone a favor. If you're going to review the Sooloos, could you (after you're done with it), hook up an Apple Macbook to an external DAC, rip a couple of your favorite CD's to Apple Lossless, and then compare the user experience and sound quality with the $12,000 system? $10,000 in savings could buy an awful lot of CD's.I have never owned anything Apple/Mac, so that is extremely unlikely. I might try it with one of my PCs but that, too, is unlikely.

Kal Rubinson

12-13-07, 10:41 AM

Or a Sonos system. Less unlikely.:-)

Alimentall

12-13-07, 10:50 AM

I have never owned anything Apple/Mac, so that is extremely unlikely. I might try it with one of my PCs but that, too, is unlikely.

You can use iTunes and an Airport Express (w/digital out) on a PC too.

Kal Rubinson

12-13-07, 11:07 AM

You can use iTunes and an Airport Express (w/digital out) on a PC too.So I have heard. The issue, for me, is that I have no real personal interest in this at the moment and am unwilling to invest in the hardware. (Multiroom systems are not in the cards for me, I am too lazy to rip all my CDs and/or LPs and I am quite focussed on multichannel.) Equipment that can be lent to me for review is the only prospect.

Alimentall

12-13-07, 11:31 AM

Well, CDs only take 4-5 minutes a piece. (Don't audiophiles all listen to just 5 CDs over and over ;) )

Multi-room is really excellent if you have multiple systems - you can put the same song on two different systems and walk back and forth to compare he experience. Or forget about toting CDs back and forth. Heck, I'll lend you an Airport Express I'm not using, but it's only $140. The catch with AE is that you can't use the wireless internet at the same time.

Sonos (and I'm sure Sooloos) makes it nice because it takes the reliance off the computer, except for loading music.

How can you be focused on multi-channel when most of it is mixed so badly (at least the non-classical stuff)? I'll take your old worn out CDs! That's why PLII/Trifield exists - proper mixing to multi-channel when recording engineers don't know how!

Kal Rubinson

12-13-07, 11:37 AM

Well, CDs only take 4-5 minutes a piece. (Don't audiophiles all listen to just 5 CDs over and over ;) ) Mebbe but I have more than 5000 silver discs.

Multi-room is really excellent if you have multiple systems - you can put the same song on two different systems and walk back and forth to compare he experience. ?? I do not want to do that. In my apartment or in my house, I listen to music in the room with the main system and I have no interest in listening seriously elsewhere. I can turn it up to do that.

Or forget about toting CDs back and forth. That might have a benefit if I could copy the files from the apartment system to the house system but, as I say, I won't give the time to rip them.

How can you be focused on multi-channel when most of it is mixed so badly (at least the non-classical stuff)? Because I listen to the classical stuff!

I'll take your old worn out CDs! That's why PLII/Trifield exists - proper mixing to multi-channel when recording engineers don't know how!Not worn out and not being discarded.

Alimentall

12-13-07, 11:52 AM

Mebbe but I have more than 5000 silver discs.

And what are you doing right now? :D If you had a stack of discs handy ever time you got on the internet, you'd have that many discs recorded long ago!

?? I do not want to do that. In my apartment or in my house, I listen to music in the room with the main system and I have no interest in listening seriously elsewhere. I can turn it up to do that.

I got that from the Xd review (sorry, that's unfair, but I couldn't resist) ;)

That might have a benefit if I could copy the files from the apartment system to the house system but, as I say, I won't give the time to rip them.

They call those hard drives. Or VPNs!

Kal Rubinson

12-13-07, 11:58 AM

And what are you doing right now? :D If you had a stack of discs handy ever time you got on the internet, you'd have that many discs recorded long ago! ??? Not from my office. There are only about 100 discs here. Not from my home PCs which are rooms away from the disc storage. Look, I am simply not going to do the ripping of the CDs, to say nothing of the LPs. At 4mins@, we are looking at 350hrs+ and that's too much bother, to say nothing of the bother of setting it up. And, btw, I have had really poor results from the web downloads of the disc info when I have tried it; I had to edit or re-enter almost everything.

I just want to listen to the music, not find another job.

Alimentall

12-13-07, 12:21 PM

You can also use a laptop and stream right to a NAS drive.

Well, anyway, it's a common objection. We will actually store our customer's music for them for free. I have 4 computers, so I could do your collection in a few days. Not that I'm volunteering, mind you!

I wonder how many hours you've spend just moving gear or changing connections. Or how many hours per year you use up just selecting a disc and putting it on a CD each time you use it rather than just the one time. Besides, most people put the discs most important to them on first and get the others when they have time. I'm just saying...........

Kal Rubinson

12-13-07, 12:26 PM

Alimentall

12-13-07, 05:48 PM

I understand. OTOH, I am nobody's customer. :(

And nobody's fool :)

cinemascope

12-13-07, 08:28 PM

I can't speak for the SooLoos, but I have spent significant time with the Qsonix Q-110 system already.

Since this (was) a SooLoos thread, I will create another thread for Qsonix.

edit: here is the link to the Qsonix thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12484594#post12484594

jdcolombo

12-13-07, 09:37 PM

??? Not from my office. There are only about 100 discs here. Not from my home PCs which are rooms away from the disc storage. Look, I am simply not going to do the ripping of the CDs, to say nothing of the LPs. At 4mins@, we are looking at 350hrs+ and that's too much bother, to say nothing of the bother of setting it up. And, btw, I have had really poor results from the web downloads of the disc info when I have tried it; I had to edit or re-enter almost everything.

I just want to listen to the music, not find another job.

I agree that the up-front time investment for ripping CD's to a hard drive is significant. But if you "just want to listen to music," there's no better way to do that than have your entire CD collection at your fingertips via a computer. Here's an example of something I never did before I had my music on computer. I often put together a playlist that I call "Tonight's Concert." Tonight's concert is a copy of the programming from a major symphony for that week - easy enough to find on the web. So I look at the program for this weekend's Chicago Symphony concert, recreate that program on a playlist on my computer, sit down and listen to the "concert" (admittedly, with different orchestras/performers, but same music). I would never have done that before - I'd have to pick out the relevant CD's, get up and change CD's for each work, etc. Yes, I COULD have done it manually; but I just didn't. Now I do.

I agree about the metadata downloads, though. Apparently this is one thing the Sooloos system does better, since it licenses the American Media Guide database, instead of using CDDB or FreeDB, both of which are terrible for classical music. I'd have to see it in action before I'd render judgment on how good it actually is, though.

John C.

Kal Rubinson

12-13-07, 09:42 PM

I agree that the up-front time investment for ripping CD's to a hard drive is significant. But if you "just want to listen to music," there's no better way to do that than have your entire CD collection at your fingertips via a computer. Here's an example of something I never did before I had my music on computer. I often put together a playlist that I call "Tonight's Concert." Tonight's concert is a copy of the programming from a major symphony for that week - easy enough to find on the web. So I look at the program for this weekend's Chicago Symphony concert, recreate that program on a playlist on my computer, sit down and listen to the "concert" (admittedly, with different orchestras/performers, but same music). I would never have done that before - I'd have to pick out the relevant CD's, get up and change CD's for each work, etc. Yes, I COULD have done it manually; but I just didn't. Now I do.Cute idea. Finding/changing discs is not a problem for my and, as I noted many messages ago, I prefer to listen to lossless MCH recordings, something not yet accommodated by any of these systems, afaik.

I agree about the metadata downloads, though. Apparently this is one thing the Sooloos system does better, since it licenses the American Media Guide database, instead of using CDDB or FreeDB, both of which are terrible for classical music. I'd have to see it in action before I'd render judgment on how good it actually is, though.No comment.

Tim916

12-13-07, 10:16 PM

splaskin

12-14-07, 08:29 PM

It has been a little over a year since I began playing with computer audio and USB DACS. I now have a new iMac 2.8 GHz computer driving a Wavelength Crimson Silver USB DAC. The iMac is remotely controlled with an iPod Touch using Remote Buddy software. The sound is magnificent; the ability to access my library a joy.

The total retail price of this setup is about $18K.

audioguy

12-15-07, 01:46 AM

I recently purchase the Qsonix and have spent time while at my PC loading CD's. My primary reason for the purchase was the ability to locate music I didn't know I had , sound quality and convenience. The touch screen user interface is perfect for men since we don't need to read any instructions (a nice PDF of a user manual is supplied). And I am an iMac owner as well I can assure you the user interface of the Qsonix product is far superior to what is available off the shelf (or even glued together) utilizing Apple hardware. I'm not suggesting that all of the functionality is not available with a Mac solution, only the user interface. Very, very slick.

(Don't ask me how it sounds as I have not gotten that far yet).

While I'm confident that more and more companies will get into this business, I decided to buy this for me for Christmas (a tad bit early).

yetis

01-10-08, 10:00 PM

rgbyhkr

01-10-08, 11:55 PM

Anyone visit with Sooloos in Vegas. Seems like it got a lot of love from Stereophile. I swore I read on Stereophiles coverage of CES today, that they changed their pricing and that they now just sell the HD enclosures and you the consumer can put whatever drive you want, into the enclosure. I wonder if someone made a mistake, as its now gone.

You mean this blog entry form Stereophile?

http://blog.stereophile.com/ces2008/010908sooloos/

"Darling described two new systems, the flagship Twin Store system retailing at $10,500 complete and the entry level Ensemble system priced at $7,200.

Both systems include the Sooloos 17" touch screen, all the software to run the system, and the hard disc bays. Where they differ is in the quality in the audio components, how the library back-ups are handled, where you can place the hard drives (which can have a little fan noise) and the ability to duplicate your music library in remote locations (such as your ski chalet).

Obviously the Twin Store system has all of the cool-man stuff. The big advantage being that music library backups are automatically handled and can be remote located. The Ensemble system saves a little cash by having you manage your backup chores.

Another big change for both systems will be that you'll be able to buy your own hard drives (currently at $250 for a terabyte that can store 2,400 CDs uncompressed). You'll need to buy the networked drive housing units from Sooloos, but you can put any drive you want into them. It's cheaper and more flexible this way, says Darling. "

Italics and bold added by me.

Also wondering if anyone the Source:micro. They told me the source:micro, even using the digital coax out, wouldn't have the same sound quality of the Source one or source five and I was wondering if there might be an answer now.

Thank you

That I find hard to believe and almost certainly was a mistake. I would expect that the output of the coax on the micro would be the same as that on the source:one. You'd be devaluing the micro if it was inferior. For the estimated MSRP of $1500 for the micro, I think most customers would expect the digital out to be as good.

yetis

01-11-08, 07:57 AM

You mean this blog entry form Stereophile?

Another big change for both systems will be that you'll be able to buy your own hard drives (currently at $250 for a terabyte that can store 2,400 CDs uncompressed). You'll need to buy the networked drive housing units from Sooloos, but you can put any drive you want into them. It's cheaper and more flexible this way, says Darling. [/B][/I]"

Italics and bold added by me.

That I find hard to believe and almost certainly was a mistake. I would expect that the output of the coax on the micro would be the same as that on the source:one. You'd be devaluing the micro if it was inferior. For the estimated MSRP of $1500 for the micro, I think most customers would expect the digital out to be as good.

Yes, that is the one. I agree with you on all counts. On the micro, I think the problem they have now is that the source one and the source micro, sort of do the same thing at a pretty vast price difference. My issue is I want several of the little micros. If the drive thing turns out to be true, I suspect that they still charge $2500 for the empty, but let you decide when you want to upgrade the internal drives.

rgbyhkr

01-11-08, 08:44 AM

Yes, that is the one. I agree with you on all counts. On the micro, I think the problem they have now is that the source one and the source micro, sort of do the same thing at a pretty vast price difference. My issue is I want several of the little micros. If the drive thing turns out to be true, I suspect that they still charge $2500 for the empty, but let you decide when you want to upgrade the internal drives.

BTW, I'm replacing 1 with one after the source: to avoid the smileys in my above post.

It's hard to tell from their literature, but it's possible that a source:1 or source:five is a required component in the system. I say this partially based upon the large gap in price between the micro and the one (estimated MSRP of the micro is $1500 while the source:1 is $4000), but the price on the micro could be different once it ships.

When you look at the rear shots of the source units, which can be seen in this pdf:

http://www.sooloos.com/www/downloads/Sooloos-Onesheets-NoPrices.pdf

you see that the only difference between the five and the one is 4 more pairs of analog RCA outs. Now, they both include a 4-port switch, but that doesn't make up the $2500 gap in price between the one and the estimated MSRP for the micro. So, it makes me wonder what else is in the one and the five. Perhaps some enhanced circuitry to improve the analog outs, but this mention in the literature strikes me:

"Source: Source components are devices that provide audio
outputs and serve as the communications hub of all the devices
in your Sooloos system."

"It also features an integrated four-port ethernet
switch for connecting to other Sooloos devices
and the Internet, allowing it to serve as the central
communications hub for all other Sooloos compo-
nents. Connections can be made using either the
supplied Neutrik EtherCon connectors or standard
CAT5/5e/6 cables with RJ-45 connectors.

The operating system is stored in read-only
flash memory, which greatly increases reliability
because it cannot be corrupted.

Because of its distributed design, a Sooloos
system can support multiple source components.
Expanding your system couldn't be simpler; just
add source components for more zones."

There's a suggestion there that the one and five source units may be doing some of the computing and running of the O/S for the system. If that's the case, then the micro may not be a unit that is equipped to handle those tasks, requiring a full-sized one or five as part of the system. That would explain the price gap. It might also better explain the product offerings. In other words, if you need a source one or five, then the micro isn't a replacement or cheaper alternate to the source:1, it's just a small form factor client for a separate zone that requires a source:1 or five to operate. As a customer, you then can choose the source:1 or source:five for one zone (if you already had a multi-zone amp with centralized distributed speaker wiring, then the five would probably make more sense) and get additional micros for other zones. If the micro can operate in a system without a full-sized source, then I'd be at a loss to explain the price gap.

Jeff

Tim916

01-11-08, 08:08 PM

After poo-pooing the Sooloos a few posts back I now have to eat a little crow. A sales rep stopped by our shop the other night with a Sooloos and I have to admit that the interface is fantastic. It's fast, powerful, easy, and fun to use. I could have spent hours playing with it. I am looking forward to seeing their new offerings.

rgbyhkr

05-03-08, 09:14 AM

FYI - I hope to have some new insight on the new Sooloos stuff under development soon. They seem to be recognizing the barrier for entry to getting a system and are looking to offer flexibility in the component options that will also allow folks to get in at a cheaper price. It sounds good, but we'll have to see what the final details are like.

What interests me are the wireless control, micro source and Rhapsody integration. To me, that takes the system to a much greater degree of flexibility and usefulness. Anyone else out there have early info about any of these, the ensemble component or the twin store?

Jeff

kdavis

05-03-08, 09:26 AM

Ensemble and twin store are currently scheduled to ship in June.

Wireless controller is actually being changed, expect an update by CEDIA, however, there is a new version of the software coming which will allow control from ControlPC (their desktop based software), web browser, iPhone/iTouch and Crestron without the need for their touchscreen. All of these eliminate the need for their touchscreen.

No updates on the Micro or Rhapsody.

rgbyhkr

05-03-08, 10:43 AM

That's what I was hearing and was waiting in more in-depth info. I hope that the iPhone interface works well. One of the benefits of the current control is how snappy it is. I've used various web controls before and they all have sluggishness as a result of the nature of the app not being on the device and rather through a borwser. That's why their wireless remote still appeals to me as I was told that they were designing it to be as snappy as the current panel.

A few questions though, if you have the answers:

- The ensemble is said to have output for 3 zones - any of them digital?
- Since the ensemble will only have one drive, will backups be over a network or will it include a USB port, or both?
- In my mind, the remote becomes most useful if it can be a total replacement for the control:one. IOW, if you don't have a good place for the large control panel or just refer a complete wireless control solution, the control:one may not be useful for all installations. What that requires is the ability to rip from elsewhere (perhaps a drive built into the remotes base) and the computing power somewhere in the system for the interface. My understanding is that most or all of that computing is done in teh control:one now. So, has Sooloos said anything about seeing the remote as a complete control solution vs an add-on zone control to complement the control:one?

Thanks.

Jeff

kdavis

05-03-08, 07:23 PM

*Ensemble will have 4 analog zones and one S/PDIF which is a mirror of zone 1.
*The PC app (ControlPC) will have a method for backing up to a hard disk attached to your computer (btw: new release scheduled for May 15th)
*The Control:One will not be needed for the Ensemble and Twinstore. One of the delays with the wireless is that they decided on a larger panel than originally spec'ed. Good news for us, should be very useful and a good size to accomplish all the features of the Control:One but with the portability. Ripping can now be done through your computer with the new software if you choose to not have a Control:One.

tyree91

05-04-08, 02:47 AM

yetis

05-05-08, 09:12 AM

I was reading the PS Audio Newsletter from Paul McGowan the other day, and he was reporting on several server solutions. The thing that caught my attention was jitter measurements on the Sooloos. He said they measured jitter at 1ns which is outrageously bad. Apparently Robert Harley of TAS used an elaborate, un-named un-reported, reclocking device to achieve the results he got in his review. I have no first hand knowledge of this problem, I'm just reporting what I read. Unfortunately the Newsletter is in my office computer and I can't post it until Monday, but maybe another member has it for posting now. This would be a real disaster at this price point, superior interface notwithstanding. The Squeezebox has jitter orders of magnitude lower for low three figures. Who would'a guessed. Regards, Norm

I know its all about the interface but I recently demoed a Sooloos and I wasn't impressed with the sound quality, so not a surprise. I think I demoed the unit with someone on this board. They demoed the unit with its analog outs as well as into a EMM D/A. So while the EMM version was better, I still wasn't blown away. Given what your saying, its no wonder the EMM D/A didn't have that much of an impact. If the sound is hohum in a super high-end demo room, one has got to wonder about the sound once you get home.

Since this product was released, the high end music server business has become a lot more competitive including several options from Linn and Naim and I am sure there are others.

tyree91

05-05-08, 08:17 PM

I know its all about the interface but I recently demoed a Sooloos and I wasn't impressed with the sound quality, so not a surprise. I think I demoed the unit with someone on this board. They demoed the unit with its analog outs as well as into a EMM D/A. So while the EMM version was better, I still wasn't blown away. Given what your saying, its no wonder the EMM D/A didn't have that much of an impact. If the sound is hohum in a super high-end demo room, one has got to wonder about the sound once you get home.

Since this product was released, the high end music server business has become a lot more competitive including several options from Linn and Naim and I am sure there are others.
I'm back at the office here's the quote from McGowan:
"The Sooloos, for example, has a terrific user interface and gets a lot of things right but their digital out has jitter of over 1ns which is about 1000 times higher than we would consider great.

Bob Harley of TAS wrote a great piece on the Sooloos but had to use an incredibly expensive re-clocking device for top performance."
Just the facts as I read them and pasted them. Your experience seems to agree with McGowan. Maybe his Time Lens or a Theta CB III with Jitter Jail would help things out here. Regards, Norm

marcb

05-07-08, 11:54 AM

how does the sound of kaleidescape compare to other music servers or is it really just for video?

Alimentall

05-07-08, 03:08 PM

yetis

05-07-08, 07:09 PM

To be fair, I think many CD players aren't that far off of this, in the hundreds, anyway. A nanosecond is an unbelievably small amount of time. i guess you could get that down to tens of pico seconds, but could you hear it if you did? I think Paul was exaggerating a bit. What is outputting only 1ps of jitter? Anything?

To quote Liudas on Audiogon...

"super low-jitter design ( < 1 nanosecond)" -- This is just plain embarrassing. That's about 900 times more Jitter than what the state of the art is worried about, and probably comparable to any old 80's CD player which has been out in the rain.".........

Alimentall, I think your just wrong.

Alimentall

05-07-08, 07:30 PM

Maybe, but what is really typical, then? I don't remember a <1 pico second player existing. I remember ones in the hundreds of pico seconds. Such as this review from Stereophile:

The driving signal also contains a low-frequency squarewave at the LSB level,which is a worst-case situation for exciting jitter. The CX-7 did very well on this test,producing just 159 picoseconds of peak-peak jitter—among the lowest results Ihave measured.

So the Soolos is 5 or 6 times that, not "1000 times" or "900 times"

tyree91

05-07-08, 11:03 PM

To quote Liudas on Audiogon...

"super low-jitter design ( < 1 nanosecond)" -- This is just plain embarrassing. That's about 900 times more Jitter than what the state of the art is worried about, and probably comparable to any old 80's CD player which has been out in the rain.".........

Alimentall, I think your just wrong.

Yetis, you are right. 1 ns is terrible. We have a thoroughfare her in SoCal called Pico Blvd., and if you're a CD player, Transport, or Server and you're not riding on it you're cooked. As an example the $299 Slimdevices Squeezebox has < 50 pico sec jitter, 5% of a ns. What's the excuse for jitter of 1 ns magnitude? Regards, Norm

Alimentall

05-08-08, 12:28 AM

Hey, I didn't say it wasn't high, just that people are exaggerating quite a bit. Where's that <1 ps player that they are apparently referencing?

WLC

05-09-08, 10:27 AM

I have a Cullen-modified Sonos with the digital out going into an Accustic Arts DAC MKIII. Rick Cullen claims his $550 mod reduces the jitter to .5ps. While I am not in a position to evaluate that claim, I can state that to my and my wife's ears the sound is clean, precise and beautiful. An A/B test with an un-modified Sonos only required a few minutes to determine that the upgrade was well worth it. But what the mod really accomplishes is allowing us to explore and enjoy our music through the controller in ways that were previously impossible for us without any loss in audio quality. I ripped our CDs to FLAC on a USB drive attached to a PC. Using 2 computers, I could rip 3 at a time. This zone, with the controller, only cost about $1,400 including the mod. While we did add two other zones, they are only used for background.

Alimentall

05-15-08, 12:26 PM

Seems like that would be the basis of a good Stereophile article. i wonder how much jitter a Sonos puts out stock.

yetis

05-15-08, 01:24 PM

Seems like that would be the basis of a good Stereophile article. i wonder how much jitter a Sonos puts out stock.

I seem to remember Kal mentioning that he was reviewing the Sooloos, so you might not be far from it!

kdavis

05-17-08, 09:29 AM

I'm back at the office here's the quote from McGowan:
"The Sooloos, for example, has a terrific user interface and gets a lot of things right but their digital out has jitter of over 1ns which is about 1000 times higher than we would consider great.

Bob Harley of TAS wrote a great piece on the Sooloos but had to use an incredibly expensive re-clocking device for top performance."
Just the facts as I read them and pasted them. Your experience seems to agree with McGowan. Maybe his Time Lens or a Theta CB III with Jitter Jail would help things out here. Regards, Norm

Don't want to start an argument but here are the facts as I know them.

Sooloos does not provide any interface to allow an external clock so I am not certain where McGowan got his information. It also seems a little odd that RH would use any device in a review and not mention it as part of the system.

His conclusion was “In fact, music streamed from Sooloos sounds better than the same music played back on a state-of-the-art CD transport .”

Remember, the article (http://www.avguide.com/news/2007/10/03/do-hard-disk-drives-sound-better-than-cd/2/) was title “Do Hard-Disk Drives Sound Better than CD’s" and it was a Sooloos, Qsonix and Esoteric P-03 all being alternatively fed in to an Esoteric D-03.

RH was not in love with the Sooloos DAC but if jitter was such an issue I don't see how he could not have reached his conclusion.

Second to all of this is the fact that there really isn't a standard for jitter specifications (http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/en/Specifying%20Jitter%20Performance.pdf).

I actually contacted Sooloos and they were kind enough to share the full jitter spec's on their audio card:

Low Jitter Design: < 1 ns in PLL mode, all inputs
Internal clock: 800 ps Jitter, Random Spread Spectrum
Jitter suppression of external clocks: > 30 dB (2.4 kHz)
Effective clock jitter influence on AD and DA conversion: near zero
PLL ensures zero dropout, even at more than 100 ns jitter

Additionally, Sooloos shared that the owner of the company who makes the audio card is not a big fan of published jitter specs as they are usually referencing peak-to-peak which is relative and therefore meaningless (kinda like a distortion measurement on its own - not really meaningful without more context).

Looking at the spec's a little further:
The first number describes the jitter in PLL mode, which is when it is under external clock, before the jitter suppression circuits. Then the Random Spread Spectrum measurement of the internal clock jitter which is not a peak to peak measurement followed by the jitter suppression and a band in which it is measured and there is the clock jitter influence on ad and da conversion which is near zero.

When I read that I agree, looks like manufacturer is not taking the clocking measurement spec. too seriously.

As a dealer and owner of the system I am sure someone is going to scream that I am bias to the product, and perhaps so, but I know there are a bunch of very respectable people from a bunch of very respectable companies who believe that this is one very amazing system in design, interface and sound (I am certain, however, every single one of them will recommend a different brand of external DAC - but that's a different discussion :D)

Well, that's my $0.02 and if pennies were still made from copper I'm sure it would be worth something.

tyree91

05-17-08, 03:15 PM

Don't want to start an argument but here are the facts as I know them.

Sooloos does not provide any interface to allow an external clock so I am not certain where McGowan got his information. It also seems a little odd that RH would use any device in a review and not mention it as part of the system.

His conclusion was “In fact, music streamed from Sooloos sounds better than the same music played back on a state-of-the-art CD transport .”

Remember, the article (http://www.avguide.com/news/2007/10/03/do-hard-disk-drives-sound-better-than-cd/2/) was title “Do Hard-Disk Drives Sound Better than CD’s" and it was a Sooloos, Qsonix and Esoteric P-03 all being alternatively fed in to an Esoteric D-03.

RH was not in love with the Sooloos DAC but if jitter was such an issue I don't see how he could not have reached his conclusion.

Second to all of this is the fact that there really isn't a standard for jitter specifications (http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/uploads/documents/en/Specifying%20Jitter%20Performance.pdf).

I actually contacted Sooloos and they were kind enough to share the full jitter spec's on their audio card:

Low Jitter Design: < 1 ns in PLL mode, all inputs
Internal clock: 800 ps Jitter, Random Spread Spectrum
Jitter suppression of external clocks: > 30 dB (2.4 kHz)
Effective clock jitter influence on AD and DA conversion: near zero
PLL ensures zero dropout, even at more than 100 ns jitter

Additionally, Sooloos shared that the owner of the company who makes the audio card is not a big fan of published jitter specs as they are usually referencing peak-to-peak which is relative and therefore meaningless (kinda like a distortion measurement on its own - not really meaningful without more context).

Looking at the spec's a little further:
The first number describes the jitter in PLL mode, which is when it is under external clock, before the jitter suppression circuits. Then the Random Spread Spectrum measurement of the internal clock jitter which is not a peak to peak measurement followed by the jitter suppression and a band in which it is measured and there is the clock jitter influence on ad and da conversion which is near zero.

When I read that I agree, looks like manufacturer is not taking the clocking measurement spec. too seriously.

As a dealer and owner of the system I am sure someone is going to scream that I am bias to the product, and perhaps so, but I know there are a bunch of very respectable people from a bunch of very respectable companies who believe that this is one very amazing system in design, interface and sound (I am certain, however, every single one of them will recommend a different brand of external DAC - but that's a different discussion :D)

Well, that's my $0.02 and if pennies were still made from copper I'm sure it would be worth something.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I was just reporting what Paul McGowan reported in his PS Audio Newsletter. I assumed that the readers of this Forum would be interested in what a respected manufacturer had to say on this matter since there was already a thread on the Sooloos here.
I read all the TAS articles regarding music servers and PC servers with great interest, and in fact it was that set of articles and all the great examples of servers so many exhibitors were using at CES that got me to build my own.
We saw the Sooloos at CES and I loved the interface. Unfortunately they were using a very strange set of 100K speakers which were not my cup of tea so it was hard to evaluate the SQ of the Sooloos. That being said the jitter specs you site from Sooloos don't look all that impressive, and seem to agree somewhat with McGowan's observations. Remember the Slimdevices Squeezebox has jitter of <50ps, and there are modifiers working on those units to make them better in this regard, Empirical Audio and Boldercables to name a few.
While some discount the effects of jitter, the article you site by Bob Harley states that jitter is probably the reason for Hard Drive's superiority over real time optical playback. I wonder what the story of McGowan's comment that Harley used an expensive re clocking device with the Sooloos really is.
I hope Sooloos succeeds along with other server manufacturers in this area. I think it is the future of playback. I haven't had so much fun playing music for myself and friends in years. Mood painting is a breeze, and they help make music a spontaneous emotional experience again. May all of this lead to what we are all seeking the advancement of music itself, and a return to high resolution playback. Regards, Norm

yetis

05-17-08, 08:16 PM

Well there you have it... Must have been my ears, the people in the room, Stereophile, etc.... We all had it wrong, Sooloos product is just great at digital resolution....

Please... With the competition out there today, Sooloos will need to step it up or their done. Its only a matter of time before the user interface is replicated and that is all Sooloos has, the sound quality doesn't even approach Linn or Naim.

Good luck with this.

Alimentall

05-17-08, 08:19 PM

the sound quality doesn't even approach Linn or Naim.

Goodness, I hope not.

kdavis

05-18-08, 10:42 AM

I don't have a dog in this fight. I was just reporting what Paul McGowan reported in his PS Audio Newsletter. I assumed that the readers of this Forum would be interested in what a respected manufacturer had to say on this matter since there was already a thread on the Sooloos here.
I read all the TAS articles regarding music servers and PC servers with great interest, and in fact it was that set of articles and all the great examples of servers so many exhibitors were using at CES that got me to build my own.
We saw the Sooloos at CES and I loved the interface. Unfortunately they were using a very strange set of 100K speakers which were not my cup of tea so it was hard to evaluate the SQ of the Sooloos. That being said the jitter specs you site from Sooloos don't look all that impressive, and seem to agree somewhat with McGowan's observations. Remember the Slimdevices Squeezebox has jitter of <50ps, and there are modifiers working on those units to make them better in this regard, Empirical Audio and Boldercables to name a few.
While some discount the effects of jitter, the article you site by Bob Harley states that jitter is probably the reason for Hard Drive's superiority over real time optical playback. I wonder what the story of McGowan's comment that Harley used an expensive re clocking device with the Sooloos really is.
I hope Sooloos succeeds along with other server manufacturers in this area. I think it is the future of playback. I haven't had so much fun playing music for myself and friends in years. Mood painting is a breeze, and they help make music a spontaneous emotional experience again. May all of this lead to what we are all seeking the advancement of music itself, and a return to high resolution playback. Regards, Norm

Yeah, I was just trying to bring to light that an external clock was not possible and that how jitter measurements and the resulting specs are bit fuzzy. I certainly would not presume to tell anyone what they did (or did not) hear from the device and I agree, the specs don't look that great especially when compared to other companies.

My biggest curiosity is Slimdevices use of the word "Intrinsic" in their jitter spec. Does anyone know if at-the-output testing has been done on any of these systems or are we're all just going off printed specs. Second, has anyone done an A/B comparison using the same DAC? RH's stated that his comparison with the Qsonix resulted in both systems sounding very much alike but I don't know what the jitter spec is on the Qsonix.

Anyway, Norm I couldn't agree with you more (and I hope others would too regardless of their opinion of Sooloos), these are some exciting times for music again. I know I've experienced the same fun and excitement with my music collection. In addition to the mood painting (which is just one of the coolest things to demo) the simple ease of access has me listening to music I haven't played in years and has me looking out for different artists and titles knowing I can quickly queue them up.

The biggest benefit, of course, is all this competition will make better products for us!

marcb

05-19-08, 10:47 AM

The most important thing is how it sounds. Having listened to sooloos with a high end dac and wilson speakers the sound was good but not great. Maybe it was the room set up? but I couldn't see spending $20,000 + for the system. I agree that other systems should be able to incorporate the touch screen - escient has had a touchscreen years ago with their fireball management for cds

rgbyhkr

05-28-08, 10:01 AM

scientest

05-28-08, 12:09 PM

yetis

05-28-08, 04:51 PM

This article has made the rounds before, I'm surprised it didn't come up here:

Detection threshold for distortions due to jitter on digital audio (http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ast/26/1/50/_pdf)

Basic conclusion: in a double blind ABX testing 250ns jitter or less is not detectable. IOW, 1ns is nothing that could possibly be heard....

Well that is all great, but what if you take the 1ns and attach it to a D/A converter that up converts? Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you just up converting the good and the bad? This was my situation, where I heard the unit through the EMM labs D/A, which I understand up converts its digital signal input.

Long story short, it didn't sound like a $15,000 source or even a $2,000 source.

I really wanted this product to rock and on the interface it did. However on sound, it just didn't.

kdavis

05-28-08, 04:56 PM

How's the new version of ControlPC? Does this one have that ripping ability direct from your PC or is that functionality to come later?

Jeff

New version is really nice, lots of great improvements for searching and selecting by metadata. The CD import via PC is active and working great - very easy to use.

The coolest new thing is the control via iPhone or iPod Touch.

scientest

05-28-08, 05:05 PM

Well that is all great, but what if you take the 1ns and attach it to a D/A converter that up converts? Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't you just up converting the good and the bad? This was my situation, where I heard the unit through the EMM labs D/A, which I understand up converts its digital signal input.

I suppose you're figuring that the up conversion will somehow multiply the jitter? Don't think that's the case, but even if it was there's nothing doing anything like 250 times (or more) up conversion.

Long story short, it didn't sound like a $15,000 source or even a $2,000 source.

I really wanted this product to rock and on the interface it did. However on sound, it just didn't.

Somehow I don't think the problems you were hearing came from the jitter. Maybe the Sooloos was introducing ground loop noise into the rest of the system; were you using a coax interconnection? Were both the DAC (and / or Amp) plugged into the same power source?

rgbyhkr

05-28-08, 05:31 PM

New version is really nice, lots of great improvements for searching and selecting by metadata. The CD import via PC is active and working great - very easy to use.

The coolest new thing is the control via iPhone or iPod Touch.

I was wondering if the iPhone control would be browser based or if they were working on a native app to be available along with other apps when the iPhone store launches next month. So, seeing as how it is browser based and given the speediness of the Control panel, how does the new control scheme fair? I know it won't be nearly as snappy, but does it feel terribly laggy by comparison? Are there limitations on what functions it supports vs the panel? Thanks.

Jeff

kdavis

05-28-08, 05:53 PM

I was wondering if the iPhone control would be browser based or if they were working on a native app to be available along with other apps when the iPhone store launches next month. So, seeing as how it is browser based and given the speediness of the Control panel, how does the new control scheme fair? I know it won't be nearly as snappy, but does it feel terribly laggy by comparison? Are there limitations on what functions it supports vs the panel? Thanks.

Jeff

Yeah, it is browser based and is basically a modified-for-iPhone version of the ControlPC app. so it does not have the album art browsing that the panel has. However, considering the amount of information they are trying to manage, it is actually a very easy to use drill-down structure. More importantly, you're still able to get to music quickly albeit with a couple more screen taps than the control. On my network it's surprisingly fast - definitely a usable interface.

They have some room for improvement and there are a handful "nice to have" features I would like to see, but I've been exclusively using the iPod Touch for the past week and don't have any real complaints.

JimLee

06-20-08, 08:00 AM

We are a small highend A/V dealer in Silverdale Washington. We started working with Sooloos about a month ago. I auditioned several music servers before choosing sooloos for our customers.
So far we have sold 9 systems and have managed to get about 5 installed. Everyone so far are having the most fun they ever had with their music collection. This is my first time posting on this forum but just wanted to say in my 30 years in the audio business this is one of the most exciting produts we have ever had the pleasure of working with. As far as the Sooloos sound quality is concerned, I would suggest to anyone who feels its not up to par with the best CD players to check their setup menu and make sure the digital volume control is set to full. I originally made this mistake when I borrowed one to demo. Also I understand from Brad at Sooloos that some of the original source dacs shipped were not grounded properly but that problem has been corrected.
Anyway, thats is my two cents.
Enjoy your music!

SoundKernel

06-20-08, 09:18 AM

I saw it at CES and think it's elegant, looks really robust and the interface was very nice. But I haven't auditioned it, and probably won't, because it's out of my price range and not a very good value to me(YMMV). At this price point it simply needs to sound better than the competition.

I use an Apple TV with my system running locally or connected to iTunes on my Mac or wife's PC and, with the TV on, it can do basically the same thing. Plays video too... Problem with AppleTV (one of several) is I don't like to leave the TV on all the time and you don't have complete control over iTunes. But I think developers will soon have a variety of native apps for the iPhone/iPodTouch and the control problem will be resolved. Then I could use any audio interface to transfer digital or analog audio to the system (or any system in the house) including an an ATV, Airport Express, USB inteface hanging off the PC laptop, or even a high end soud card/external interface in the MacPro.

If I wanted or needed a larger touch interface, I would buy a used iMac and send it to trolltech for touchscreen installation. Or buy the little Wacom LCD tablet ($999) and run cover flow/iTunes on it. Someone also modifies a MacBook to be a tablet but it's a bit of a hack...

but I still think Sooloos can differentiate themselves with rock solid, appliance-like stability in comparison to a multi-function computers. But they have to have best of class audio to close the deal.

cheers,

Michael Grant

06-20-08, 09:46 AM

SoundKernel---I decided to go with the AppleTV route as well. It wasn't so much because I felt it was better for music; it's not. Even if you set aside the TV requirement it's not as easy to use, and it doesn't have Rhapsody, yet. (Though you can stream Rhapsody from another computer to the AppleTV.) But I also bought it for video playback as well. So now there isn't a room left in the house that doesn't already have media playback capability, and the value proposition for these dedicated music systems has been diminished. An iPhone remote with full graphical feedback will close the gap with the Sooloos considerably.

Having said that I have a friend who is putting the finishing touches on a high-end custom home; and despite being willing to invest in custom Crestron, AMX, or NetStreams controls, ultimately decided that the Sooloos was the way to go. Rhapsody support was one of his big sticking points, too. I am sure he will be happy with it.

BTW, I know this is off-topic, but one serendipitous find with the AppleTV is its ability to play podcasts. Now of course, that in itself may not be a surprise, because iTunes has done podcasts for some time. But what I didn't realize were just how many video podcasts there were. There really is some great content there, both amateur and professional, with many big names (Discovery Channel, TEDtalks, Ask A Ninja, etc.) And while of course I can play them on my computer, it's not the same experience as watching it in your family/media room.

SoundKernel

06-20-08, 03:05 PM

Hi Michael,

It's not the end-all by any means but it does some neat things for the money; I usually stream playlists from one of the PC's but sometimes navigate what's on the smallish 40 gig drive; I think you can control iTunes remotely but I need to double check; most of what I have ripped so far is mirrored on the Apple TV. Sounds OK through my AVP2 too.

I have purchased a bunch of classic short form cartoons from itunes and I love the convenience of this for the kids. I need to rip my Chuck Jones classics and convert them to h.264. Still haven't tried the HD downloads but I will soon. I'll check out the podcasts too!

The Sooloos has a place, like Kaleidascape, but that last 10% sure costs a fortune!

Scott

rgbyhkr

08-30-08, 07:30 AM

I hear there are some interesting surprises to be revealed by Sooloos next week at CEDIA. I do so love the hype build-up before a tradeshow. :)

thebland

08-30-08, 07:40 AM

You mean this??

08.19.2008 — Sooloos has expanded its media server capabilities and will be showcasing the hardware and software at CEDIA Expo 2008 (booth 390).

Software upgrades enable better integration with Apple and other third-party systems, as well as more control options for the company's PC-based Control:PC.

Users can now control Sooloos media servers from any iPhone or iPod Touch that has access to the same wireless network as the server.

Sooloos servers can also be controlled by Crestron and related third-party touch panels with Crestron Text and Overlay Modules.

Sooloos Ensemble

The Sooloos Ensemble offers four stereo unbalanced RCA outputs and one S/PDIF digital out, providing users the ability to simultaneously listen to multiple Sooloos feeds in different rooms.

Ensemble's removable drive bay can accommodate up to a terabyte of storage, and users can add Sooloos' Control:One 17-inch touch panel or interact with Ensemble through third-party control and PC-based solutions.

MSRP is $3,500.

Sooloos Twinstore

The new Sooloos Twinstore is a single chassis with two removable drive mechanisms that can accommodate up to a terabyte of storage each. With Twinstore, primary and backup drives for Sooloos can reside in a single enclosure.

Sooloos is also now offering hard drive purchase options. Ensemble, Twinstore and all other Sooloos storage components are now priced without drives, enabling dealers and customers to add whatever storage fits their needs.

Sooloos offers drives at commodity prices ($350 for a 1TB drive, $175 for a 500GB drive), or the dealer/customer can install their own from any source.

MSRP for Sooloos Twinstore is $2,500.

Sooloos Import:One

Another new device, Sooloos Import:One is designed to simplify the process of importing CD collections to a Sooloos server.

Import:One is a 25-disc autoloader that connects via USB to any computer sharing a network with Sooloos. Users load the tray with 25 discs, hit "import" and "return" when it's done.

Sooloos' Control:PC software handles the technicalities of the import process.

MSRP for Sooloos Import:One is $800.

Control:PC

Control:PC is a PC-based application that can control the media server, import files to it, export files to portable players, edit metadata and provide manual backup and restore.

Control:PC can now facilitate CD importing to Sooloos from other computers on the home network, as well as from the Import:One 25-disc autoloader.

The user interface for Control:PC has also been redesigned.

rgbyhkr

08-30-08, 07:46 AM

Nope. Supposedly a bunch of stuff that has previously been rumored but not yet shown as well as some things that I haven't heard mentioned before.

marcb

08-30-08, 07:56 AM

I hope they improved the sound- that would be the best news

tyree91

08-30-08, 10:00 PM

mmiles

09-01-08, 09:59 PM

Can you say V I D E O ?

marcb

09-06-08, 11:08 AM

anyone stop by sooloos- are they showing any video applications?

rgbyhkr

09-06-08, 02:59 PM

anyone stop by sooloos- are they showing any video applications?

The only mention I've seen of it in any of the show reports is this one very short blurb:

"Sooloos is adding video playback and picture browsing to their system. Details on these new offerings will be available in the near future."

It was in the show report from Secrets, which can be found here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/features/show-reports/cedia--thursday-and-friday-from-the-show-floor_5.html

Hopefully, we'll here more from other sources in the coming days.

Jeff

JlgLaw

09-06-08, 09:01 PM

When I spoke with one of the SooLoos founders last month he indicated 2009 for Video. No other details were given.

Jim

rgbyhkr

09-06-08, 11:10 PM

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2966/sooloos-nips-at-kaleidescapes-heels.html

rgbyhkr

09-07-08, 12:02 AM

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6592939.html

"Sooloos: The New York City company has offered CD-ripping music servers to stream music to networked clients and to traditional multiroom-audio systems. Now it is launching servers that store audio plus standard- and high-definition video that's imported from a networked PC. The products also deliver online access to Rhapsody's music service, YouTube videos and Flickr photo-sharing site.

Stored media can be selected for playback from a Control:One 17-inch wired touchpanel, from third-party control panels and from an Wi-Fi-equipped iPhone and iPod Touch.

The company plans fall shipment of multiple storage components. One is the Sooloos Core Twinstore, which stores music and photos, and the Core Quadstore, which holds music, photos and video. Both incorporate drive bays for inserting any brand of HDD. Both devices offer automatic backup and daisy-chaining to store any size media collection, the company said. Server capacity can be expanded without limit in 4TB chunks, 3TB for storage and 1TB for backup.

For output, Sooloos will offer Sooloos Solo, a single-zone audio output device with an audiophile-quality DAC; Sooloos Quartet, a four-zone audio output device; and Sooloos Cinema, a single-zone HD video output device."

rgbyhkr

09-08-08, 08:15 AM

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Sooloos_Shows_New_Hardware_New_Content_Support.shtml

rgbyhkr

09-08-08, 01:42 PM

Video of the system UI taken at CEDIA and brief verbal mention of the new video functionality, but not demonstrated here:

http://mindvisiontheater.wordpress.com/2008/09/08/sooloos-offers-storage-playback-and-control-at-cedia-expo-2008/

rgbyhkr

09-14-08, 11:58 PM

This month's Stereophile has Sooloos on the cover. In the article, there are some interesting tidbits about what is to come:

http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/908sooloos/index7.html

"Source:One DAC Upgrade: Sooloos says that while the Source:One and Source:Five will remain current for a while, their internal DAC will likely be upgraded in the next few months. Having taken a few hits on sound quality in comparisons with outboard DACs, Sooloos is responding to audiophiles' need for better sound to go along with their innovative interface. They're talking with another high-end audio manufacturer about the DAC, and may have something to announce by the end of the year.

New Touchpanel: Sooloos says they're about to add to their product line a portable, battery-powered, 12" touchpanel with charging dock. It's unlikely to replace the Control:One for many folks, but an additional remote control will help make the system even more sleek and easy to use. Sooloos says the custom casework is ready now; the final product will cost somewhere between $2000 and $2500, and we should see it before the end of 2008.

Interface and Software Updates: As new functions are added, Sooloos plans to continue updating its software's feature set and interface "skin," or screen appearance. These updates will include making room for more music sources and streamlining some of the functions to make the skin easier to use. For example, managing multiple zone playlists and putting the system to sleep require some extra steps that will likely be eliminated. They also have plans to improve the Swim software. Let's hope they also let us sort the entire library by additional criteria, and add a Preview function to the album page.

There's More: At press time, Sooloos was unwilling to make any public statements about some of the content-streaming deals underway, but what I've heard about so far sounds exciting. They also plan to introduce some video- (including YouTube) and photo-server products at this month's CEDIA Expo.—Jon Iverson"

Italics and bolding were added by me. The parts in bold are the tidbits that stand out to my eye. There's some interesting stuff coming, a lot of which looks to be targeted by year end.

Jeff

pearljammer

06-29-09, 11:55 AM

I don't know if anyone is still interested in the Meridian Sooloos system, but I have one new in the box for sale at AudiogoN:

cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/auc.pl?dgtlplay&1246679015&1246290208

I'm not an audiophile and as bad ass as this system looks, I can't justify keeping it when I owe 11000 on my credit card. So, in hopes of paying that down some I have decided to sell the system. Please don't contact me just to say the reserve is too high or whatever. I've had people offer me 1,000 for it, I've also had people who want to meet up instead of shipping when it sells for higher than the reserve. If you have any other questions feel free to contact me.

To the mods, if this is considered spam... I apologize. I just want to make sure anyone interested has a chance at owning one brand new for less than msrp. I know it also benefits me to post about it here, so if that is unacceptable, then I understand. Either way, thanks for your understanding.