Theta Corp sold [Text View]

DanFrancis

11-07-07, 11:25 PM

Well, I pointed-out back when the Valis was a chasis-prototype that it looked surprisingly like the 8500 processor from ATI. I even posted pictures!

In all honesty, I really think that you're not going to see this drastic change at Theta like some here are fearing- once again, specifics are confidential, but I think that this will help Theta develop the HDMI solution they so badly need. As bad as that interface may be, the fact remains that in order to take full advantage of the newest audio formats, Theta must develop HDMI connectivity. I'm also sure that it will probably sound better than most, if not all, of the other offerings.

But don't discount Halcro, that is really a great sounding processor! And ATCs really do tear my head-off!!! :P

CBIII will stay, although there probably will be a CBIV. And I'm willing to bet that the Theta product line gets expanded in a very positive way.

And no, Steve has not paid me (yet) to say those things....:D HA!!!!!!:D

Dan

Steve Bruzonsky

11-07-07, 11:41 PM

Dan is very intuitive.

Assuming that ATI has acquired Theta Digital, then there should be a press release any day now. Watch for this!

DanFrancis

11-08-07, 12:11 AM

I KNEW Steve was a smart guy (that'll be another $20, Steve :D ).

Dan

joeycalda

11-08-07, 01:04 AM

can someone please explain to me when a non competing larger audio company purchases another audio company everyone feels it is bad for business. In the franchise restaurant biz it usually means bigger advertizing budget, better contols, more accurate accounting, better trained staff etc..When Mark Levinson sold his company and name for mega millions it certaintly did not hurt the product line, but rather expaned it.

Joey

VGI

11-08-07, 01:07 AM

I have been way to busy to write on the forums lately but as Theta's Largest dealer in the world I might as well give you my 2 cents.

I have been in this business for a very long time and most of you know me already so I will spare you the boring stuff..

Here is the scoop -
Neil and Evelyn and the rest of the Theta Staff as you all know have done an amazing job of building this company over the 20 or so years they have been at it..

As a high end Custom installer , it's super crucial to offer my clients the best in class and yes for so many years Theta has been that product. Yes over the years we had occasional problems with products more from other companies but it's the ones who stand behind their products that stand out. Theta is just that. If I had a problem , I called Theta and John or David or Carl or one of the many technical caring people would work with us till it was resolved. We never left a customer hanging with a problem. How many of you got left hanging with other brands ? Alot I bet !

My customers always felt like Theta was there for them unlike so many other vendors we have worked with in the past who hide behind their company name. People today will spend more money on high end products but they want to know the company and dealer behind them will support them..

What you have to understand here is what's really happening. Why would you think that selling a company is a bad thing ? Yes I know the Lexicon thing , and the Proceed thing are not great but there are tons of mergers and sales that do make things better. This one is going to be good..

You think when I heard this I was happy and not worried ? No way.. I have a great relationship with Neil and I use Theta for 95% of all my installs. My first thoughts were oh my god, what was I going to do?

Theta is 100% full speed ahead as we learned over the last few days. Actually better than ever. New leases have been signed on their building for starters. What does that tell you ? They are not going anywhere guys.

The deal here is that ATI is a huge manufacturer of amplifiers , maybe the largest Amp manufacturer in the world. They OEM produce amps for so many companies (Names that you know of and own) that you would faint if you knew all they produce for. The word on the Guys that own ATI is very crucial here as well - Morris Kessler and Mike Pontelle are industry pioneers. Here is a link which tells you alot about them. These guys started SAE back in 1968 when I was still in diapers but shortly after in my teens I owned SAE stuff and it was awesome. These are the guys we are speaking of.. Very much considered some of the founding fathers of high end audio.

http://www.wardsweb.org/audio/sae_history.html ( read this link )

ATI apparently has money and I guess wanted a high end company like Theta to grow and work with. It's a great marriage.. Theta's high end products coupled with ATI's manufacturing ability is a win win situation. It will enable Theta both financially and technically to grow the products they have now and the ones in the works as well.

There is nothing wrong with having a new Gust of wind in your sails when you are flying high already !! I think that says it all.

This is the beginning of the new Theta !

Thanks
Craig (Theatermax)

VGI

11-08-07, 01:09 AM

Joey, I think you were writing your response same time as I.. Thanks for the great input.. It's so true.. This is great for everyone who owns it and future buyers !!

Craig

CINERAMAX

11-08-07, 01:19 AM

Seems to me that the positive effect will work both ways. Expect better sounding Outlaw and Sherbourn amps. Hey Sherbourn is very good for multiroom, and they have a 7 channel amp with 2 power plugs that sounds pleasant with the dynaudio esotars.

sdurani

11-08-07, 01:52 AM

Sanjay, I never said anything negative about Lexicon's sale. Others may have conjectured but I didn't.Oh I was just having a little fun with Theta luvers. You know the mindset: Lexicon being sold is not great; Theta being sold is going to be good. See below for typical example. Why would you think that selling a company is a bad thing ? Yes I know the Lexicon thing , and the Proceed thing are not great but there are tons of mergers and sales that do make things better. This one is going to be good..Sanjay

tyree91

11-08-07, 02:17 AM

thebland

11-08-07, 06:18 AM

Nick Satullo

11-08-07, 06:48 AM

I have been way to busy to write on the forums lately but as Theta's Largest dealer in the world I might as well give you my 2 cents.

In the world? Wow, that's big.

I have been in this business for a very long time and most of you know me already so I will spare you the boring stuff..

You're the guy that tries to sell stuff under the guise of knowing more than others, right?

Here is the scoop -
Neil and Evelyn and the rest of the Theta Staff as you all know have done an amazing job of building this company over the 20 or so years they have been at it..

Naah . . . "scoop" is a journalistic term connoting breaking news. Your scoop is more of the boring stuff you promised to spare us.

As a high end Custom installer , it's super crucial to offer my clients the best in class and yes for so many years Theta has been that product. Yes over the years we had occasional problems with products more from other companies but it's the ones who stand behind their products that stand out. Theta is just that. If I had a problem , I called Theta and John or David or Carl or one of the many technical caring people would work with us till it was resolved. We never left a customer hanging with a problem. How many of you got left hanging with other brands ? Alot I bet !

Yep. Stay away from those other brands. Buy Theta! Buy from Craig!

What you have to understand here is what's really happening. Why would you think that selling a company is a bad thing ? Yes I know the Lexicon thing , and the Proceed thing are not great but there are tons of mergers and sales that do make things better. This one is going to be good..

Did anyone really think we wouldn't get the ham-handed swipe against a company that continues to positively kill Theta in terms of maintaining a state of the art product? By the way, if anyone doesn't see this for what it likely is--a last gasp effort at cash infusion so that the company even has a hope of surviving--perhaps Craig is the dealer for you. And then there's a bridge whose purchase we might discuss . . .

You think when I heard this I was happy and not worried ? No way.. I have a great relationship with Neil and I use Theta for 95% of all my installs. My first thoughts were oh my god, what was I going to do?

Theta is 100% full speed ahead as we learned over the last few days. Actually better than ever. New leases have been signed on their building for starters. What does that tell you ? They are not going anywhere guys.

The deal here is that ATI is a huge manufacturer of amplifiers , maybe the largest Amp manufacturer in the world. They OEM produce amps for so many companies (Names that you know of and own) that you would faint if you knew all they produce for. The word on the Guys that own ATI is very crucial here as well - Morris Kessler and Mike Pontelle are industry pioneers. Here is a link which tells you alot about them. These guys started SAE back in 1968 when I was still in diapers but shortly after in my teens I owned SAE stuff and it was awesome. These are the guys we are speaking of.. Very much considered some of the founding fathers of high end audio.

http://www.wardsweb.org/audio/sae_history.html ( read this link )

ATI apparently has money and I guess wanted a high end company like Theta to grow and work with. It's a great marriage.. Theta's high end products coupled with ATI's manufacturing ability is a win win situation. It will enable Theta both financially and technically to grow the products they have now and the ones in the works as well.

There is nothing wrong with having a new Gust of wind in your sails when you are flying high already !! I think that says it all.

This is the beginning of the new Theta !

Thanks
Craig (Theatermax)

Translation: Don't let the grinding halt to current technology over the past 5 years dissuade you from buying Theta from me. Drink the koolaid! After all, why should anyone think that the drowning guy who just got thrown a life preserver won't immediately take five gold medals in the Olympics?

Spinning causes dizziness.

Nick :cool:

sierraalphahotel

11-08-07, 07:07 AM

Translation: Don't let the grinding halt to current technology over the past 5 years dissuade you from buying Theta from me. Drink the koolaid! After all, why should anyone think that the drowning guy who just got thrown a life preserver won't immediately take five gold medals in the Olympics?

Spinning causes dizziness.

Nick :cool:

You are not a fan of Theta then? :rolleyes: :)

Ash Sharma

11-08-07, 07:46 AM

I don't know how many In this board know the meaning of 'Synergy'.
It is not gauranteed but most times when one company pays big bucks to acquire another, it is expected.
The previous owners are kept on board with a 'carrot' to cash out even more down the road if they help deliver the value expected of the Synergy.

Nick Satullo

11-08-07, 07:59 AM

You are not a fan of Theta then? :rolleyes: :)

You really won't understand my post without the historical context of the many threads in which Theta owners--and, of course, Theta dealers--continue to make categorical assertions of superiority, while only emphasizing the subjective aspects of that alleged superiority. I don't doubt that Theta makes a fine sounding processor (though my listening is limited). It's the type of post that Craig offered that serves to light the fuse.

I could go on and on, but you can search it and read for yourself. It has nothing to do with any dislike of Theta. It has everything to do with the rhetoric that's been repeatedly offered on Theta's behalf, much like the unmitigated puffery of the dealer's post.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Steve Bruzonsky

11-08-07, 08:30 AM

I became aware of Theta being acquired by ATI a week ago, but I promised my source (very high up) that I wouldn't say anything pending the press releease from ATI - which should be out anytime now. Of course, that cat is out of the bag.

My source couldn't tell me very much due to a nondisclosure agreement other than Theta Digital remains fully intact, except basically that Neil Sinclair as President and also Evelyn Sinclair will no longer be involved with the company. David Reich, who once started and owned Classe, and who is Theta's principal designer particularly their fantastic amplifiers, is of course staying on, as well as other key personnel. As Craig Shumer stated, Theta just signed a new lease.

Theta Digital started out as a high end audio and stereo company twenty years ago. All of these years Neil Sinclair has carried the company on his shoulders, as several partners left early on to form other companies
(Angstrom and California Audio Technologies, which both are no longer).
About 1995 Theta jump started its evolution from two channel to high end home theater with the design and then introduction of the Theta Casablanca surround processor (actually, Theta started this evolution some years before with high end laserdisc players and even a mod to satellite receivers). Since then, home theater has TAKEN OFF and technology changes are rapid.

Theta Digital remained alive and reasonably successful all these years because Neil Sinclair was fiscally conservative and dedicated. But those same qualities which enabled Theta to survive changing market conditions and the TAKEOFF in new technologies also dragged Theta along. Theta's bread and butter became more and more home theater than its amazing two channel
DACs. But in a changing world it takes more and more investment $$ to compete and perhaps Neil wasn't willing to take that much risk when he worked so hard to provide great audio and products and was getting close to retirement (he's 60).

So I see the ATI acquisition as a "Large Step Forward for AudioKind" (like Neil Armstrong's first steps on the Moon) (OK I'm exaggerating). ATI clearly has a lot more resources than Theta Digital and wouldn't be acquiring Theta unless than had plans to make $$$ with Theta, and that means remaining competitive in a very competetive market.

Meanwhile, expect Neil to take it easy for a short time, as he lives very close to the Ocean somewhere a lot nicer than the mainland; but within a few years, he'll be back to his true love - high end stereo audio. He'll be able to have some fun and not have to worry about competing with the Meridians, Lexicons, Halcros, etc.

By the way, Craig Shumer aka Theatermax is Theta's largest dealer worldwide. Neil has confirmed that with me. (Woops, guess who my hi level source is). I've genuinely luved my Theta products over the years. Neil called some folks last week so when the news became public we could all avoid lobotomies. I think he was surprised that I took the news so well. But lets be practical. Twenty years with a company is a long time. Neil's 60. Doesn't he personally need to think about retirement and be a bit conservative - as opposed to risking everything he's done by expanding and investing his own money? I would do the same. So would many of you. But the key is the company that Neil sold to, and that Neil has put in place a mechanism to help the new owner, ATI, run Theta's home theater to continue its product line and I suspect to quicken the pace on new technologies. I suspect that ATI as new owner of Theta will not let all the past goodwill on upgrading go by the wayside and will continue on in this regard as Theta has in the past - but Neil couldn't comment on this and I will find this out eventually whether its in the current upcoming press release or as Theta someday announced its policy in this regard.

I've been a very satisfied Theta owner for years and nothing changes that.
Yea I'd like to be able to do an upgrade price on the CB3 to the CB4 with HDMI but will have to wait and see. If I was considering buying a Theta CB3 now, as a potential new owner of course I would wait until things shake out and either the new processor has HDMI or a reasonably priced HDMI upgrade isw formally announced. And that's why I suspect that the new Theta Digital won't wait that long to assure existing customers and attract new ones of their plans.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-08-07, 08:34 AM

For me this story has two fronts:

1. How Theta will change as a company and the if a new processor will finally be developed. Moreover, if they'll now be able to get with it to be more cutting edge AND keep the quality. Theta's slow progress on upgrades kept me away.

2. How this effects Steve's quest to get THeta DACs into his HD DVD lossless sound.:)

For once Jeff is right.

1. I suspect the new Theta will be able to get the new processor with HDMI multi-channel and more cutting edge and keep the quality and FASTER instead of slow progress. But we'll see.

2. As for Theta's DACs in my HD DVD lossless sound: Even using my Six Shooter my sound is terrific and I'm pleased. But I suspect that the new Theta will be better and faster at accomplishing this.

I should add that the new Theta will need to be responsive on the above
to both keep the loyalty of its existing customers and to attract many new customers.

mburnstein

11-08-07, 08:49 AM

For once Jeff is right.

1. I suspect the new Theta will be able to get the new processor with HDMI multi-channel and more cutting edge and keep the quality and FASTER instead of slow progress. But we'll see.

2. As for Theta's DACs in my HD DVD lossless sound: Even using my Six Shooter my sound is terrific and I'm pleased. But I suspect that the new Theta will be better and faster at accomplishing this.

I should add that the new Theta will need to be responsive on the above
to both keep the loyalty of its existing customers and to attract many new customers.

yo Steve, Whazzup? Wanna buy a loaded:eek:;):D CBIII cheap@@?

mburnstein

11-08-07, 09:05 AM

or a CBIV cheap@@?

Joelc

11-08-07, 10:34 AM

I hope, for those that do won Theta, that your experience is markedly different from what I went through with Tag McLaren where IAG essentially pissed away all of TMA's technology...

Steve Bruzonsky

11-08-07, 10:59 AM

I hope, for those that do won Theta, that your experience is markedly different from what I went through with Tag McLaren where IAG essentially pissed away all of TMA's technology...

I hope so, too.

TAG made some nice stuff. The DTS demo at CES some years ago had a TAG surround processor and that room sounded great for home theater including DTS music!

Help me remember, who is IAG? Weren't they more of an investment/financial group than actually into audio and home theater like Amplifier Technologies is?

ken6217

11-08-07, 11:13 AM

AndreYew

11-08-07, 11:36 AM

I own an ATI 6012 amp, and have visited the ATI factory (to get a sheared-off RCA jack fixed). These two companies seem like they're from opposite sides of the audio philosophical spectrum --- ATI makes high-value, no-nonsense stuff, and well, Theta doesn't.

Mergers/acquisitions are always difficult, and I hope they can make this work out.

--Andre

mmiles

11-08-07, 11:40 AM

Steve Bruzonsky

11-08-07, 11:41 AM

Ditto with what happened with ML and Proceed.
The bottom line is that NO ONE on this forum knows how it will play out unless you are sitting with the Board of Directors for ATI. Even if you move 1000 CB3's a year for the company, you will only know what they tell you, and they will tell you want they want you to know. That's the reality.
Ken

My gut feeling is that ATI wouldn't have acquired Theta unless they planned to at minimum toe the line re Theta's prior policies and pick it up from there.
But gut is just gut. My bottom line is will the new Theta support me as an existing customer both warranty wise and upgrade wise. We will see. But since ATI has bought Theta I will be very surprised if they don't do all of this because otherwise, what's the benefit of spending the bucko bucks to buy Theta???

ken6217

11-08-07, 11:58 AM

I hope it's all good. I am in the process of replacing what I have now, and the CB3 is still an option. I have been burned before so you can tell from my posts that I am sketical of what goes on with the high end companies.

Oh yea, I forgot to add my illustrious PMDT to my Citaion 7.0 and PAV/PMDT that I owned and will both be upgraded for the future as per Madrigal and harman. :) I will say one thing, when the PMDT worked, nothing was better.
Ken

thebland

11-08-07, 12:08 PM

Steve Bruzonsky

11-08-07, 12:12 PM

Here goes...

ATI has always been assoicated with brands of perceived less quality in both sound and components used in construction or at least that has been my opinion and they impression others have given.

With that said what makes anyone think they will raise the bar at Theta as vs. lowering it somewhat in order to sell more units at a lower price? If ATI would do this (develop bleeding edge high end audio) it goes against there past and proven business model imho.

Now as far as why and when one would sell a business. Well you want the money! Look at the recent Runco and Planar deal. $35 mill! Do you think Runco had assets, earnings (retained and projected), patents, market share, facilities worth that kind of cash? Of course not. Planar wanted the name and "goodwill" the name gave them in the industry as well as thier core business.

But the existing Superior 2 and Extreme DACs are darn fine and my guess is the new Theta will use these technologies and develop the HDMI interface to use them for the new high resolution HD DVD and Blue Ray formats. And that the new Theta will marshall their resources into this so its sooner rather than later.

But I agree with you speculativewise that I don't think the new Theta will
go out of their way to develp a new better two channel DAC (than the Generation 8 already out) but that they will concentrate on the home theater market. Isn't that a plus?

But it all remains to be seen. The upcoming press release will be interesting.

ken6217

11-08-07, 01:01 PM

But that was over 10 years ago...things are much better today.

Are you addressing companies or their products? If it is companies your comment is not appliicable. If it is products, I shall see (I mean hear).

I will let you know after some in home auditions. So far, I have found nothing that sounds better than my PAV/PMDT.
Ken

Joelc

11-08-07, 06:16 PM

I hope so, too.

TAG made some nice stuff. The DTS demo at CES some years ago had a TAG surround processor and that room sounded great for home theater including DTS music!

Help me remember, who is IAG? Weren't they more of an investment/financial group than actually into audio and home theater like Amplifier Technologies is?

IAG stands for International Audio Group (see http://www.iaguk.co.uk/) who own a number of companies including Wharfedale, Quad, Mission, Castle, Audiolab, etc.

In their acquisition of TMA they committed to providing customer and leveraging the IP...at the end of the day they did nothing with the IP in that:

-- they took the cheapest TMA processor and amp, made even cheaper versions and rebadged them.

-- they never provided one upgrade -- hardware or software -- for any of the TMA equipment.

-- they returned a damn phone call...this left a miserable taste in my mouth not to mention costiong me $40,000+ in equipment that became nothing more than expensive door stoppers...as you can tell I was not happy!

Intentions and market talks are worthless...the onlt thing that matters are the results and that will take some time to tell...I wish all the Theta owners the best and hope that their experience is the EXACT OPPOSITE of my TMA experience...

Steve Bruzonsky

11-08-07, 06:25 PM

I wish all the Theta owners the best and hope that their experience is the EXACT OPPOSITE of my TMA experience...

Joel, thanks for the info on IAG and what they did with TAG.

And of course what you state above is the best summary of where we are now re Theta. Only time will tell. And of course the shortly to be here press release re the acquisition, my first question is what if anything will it tell us?

wotg

11-08-07, 06:40 PM

This might very well be a good thing for Theta. I have just got my dreadnaught II and was planning on ordering a CB III at the start of 2008.
I`ll probeably wait with that purchase until it becomes clear how ATI plans to support existing customers and what will happen with the current line up (especially the CB III)
More $$$ hopefully means more product development, maybe we will see a new processor or a CB III upgrade in time for CES?
Hopefully ATI will pick up where theta left off and maybe even develop a new hi-def disc player?

Joelc

11-08-07, 07:18 PM

Joel, thanks for the info on IAG and what they did with TAG.

And of course what you state above is the best summary of where we are now re Theta. Only time will tell. And of course the shortly to be here press release re the acquisition, my first question is what if anything will it tell us?

Steve, based on my experience with TMA/IAG the first tell sign will be the rate at which the develop/release new hardware or software...if nothing new (and by new I mean things that are not evolutionary like improved DACs) arrives within the first 6 months then I would be concerned...you see, it is my view that a company that is truly interested in maintaining a brand and its loyal customers must demonstrate within the first 6 months otherwise it falls under "too little, too late" and what better away than through new product at the Theat branding/quality level...

The other sign will be support...try calling them in 10 to 12 weeks from now and see how things go...from experience this was the firsdt thing to go...for example, when TMA was TMA I -- a regular user -- could pick up a phoen and speak to Udo Zucker (CEO), Steve Harris (Chief Software Engineer), John Mulcahy (Chief Hardware Enginner), etc. AT ANY TIME ON ANY DAY...I even got a software upgrade directly from Udo on Christmas eve...then the braintrust (and I use this term litely) at IAG took over and guess what...their "helddesk" was open 2 days a week from 9:00 AM to 11:00 AM GMT which means from 4:00 AM to 6:00 AM EST (I live on the East Coast)...this is when I decided to bail and sell my equipment...I simply could not get anybody's GD attention...END OF RANT!

Bulldogger

11-08-07, 07:22 PM

More $$$ hopefully means more product development, maybe we will see a new processor or a CB III upgrade in time for CES?
Hopefully ATI will pick up where theta left off and maybe even develop a new hi-def disc player?

I think it means that an upgrade or new processor with a Theta name is a long way off if ever. Only thing will convince me is if the ATI owner makes a statement and committment to the current owners. Then I will have to see some new product developement. I suspect, the Sinclairs jumped off a sinking ship. This is why after my experience with California Audio Labs, I do not buy all of my gear from the same company. Since when has a lower end company bought a high-end company and maintained the brand? I can handle the truth. The truth is, I have lost money today with my investment in Theta electronics. We will see if that changes. I am not optimistic. Glad to see Neil sale the brand though. Lead or get out of the way.

Mozvz

11-08-07, 08:49 PM

I've had two experiences in acquisitions by another company. Neither of these were in the audio industry and each take over is unique. The first company gave the dog and pony show, told us what we wanted to hear and within a year, the original management staff of the acquired company was gone and they brought in their product line and phased out what we brought to the table keeping the cash cows in the marketplace and eventually the life cycle of those products decreased. They were in essence purchasing market share and took the best products that were there to acquire return their initial investment.

The second company also did the dog and pony show, (they all do) embraced the new employees, management team and the product lines. They were very aware of the experience of the acquired companies management team and kept them around for about 2 years. In the end during my time there, they kept the higher standards of product mix, service and development, but pretty much focused on their own product lines, incorporated their own brand name and everything was quite good. The culture changed from small to large business, but that company today is doing well in their specific marketplace.

It's really a crap shoot when a takeover occurs and you just need to be patient and see what occurs. My guess Theta is a star in the CEO/S business plan and will continue to support it using that leverage in the marketplace to promote their own line. How they will support it and continue with R&D needs to be seen. Eventually it may be a mirror of what it once was meaning it could be a stronger force then it already is in high end audio, or fade into oblivion like various other companies have. Time will tell, but I do hope this is a positive acquisition so current Theta owners have a strong future with support and new technology. Everyone can speculate, but you need to see the dog and pony show and see what actions they take in the future. No one truly knows unless they are on the inside of the management team. Profitability is paramount and unless ATI is willing to offset possible losses due to reduced sales initially because of trepidation in the marketplace, they will need to make a strong and action based plan to build consumer confidence. For some reason, I think they will.

kjohn

11-08-07, 10:02 PM

My gut feeling is that ATI wouldn't have acquired Theta unless they planned to at minimum toe the line re Theta's prior policies and pick it up from there.
But gut is just gut. My bottom line is will the new Theta support me as an existing customer both warranty wise and upgrade wise. We will see. But since ATI has bought Theta I will be very surprised if they don't do all of this because otherwise, what's the benefit of spending the bucko bucks to buy Theta???

I hope you are right Steve as I have always thought Theta was first class I was a baby when it was started but as I got older I strived to own a Theta product. But I cannot help but think of Mondial and Klipsch they just use that merger as a tax write off. And they said the same things (we are going to expand the name and make it better). :(

Steve Bruzonsky

11-08-07, 10:16 PM

I hope you are right Steve as I have always thought Theta was first class I was a baby when it was started but as I got older I strived to own a Theta product. But I cannot help but think of Mondial and Klipsch they just use that merger as a tax write off. And they said the same things (we are going to expand the name and make it better). :(

Good point. And to date we haven't even heard from ATI of their plans with Theta. Hope we do.

mdesmarais

11-08-07, 10:53 PM

...if nothing new (and by new I mean things that are not evolutionary like improved DACs) arrives within the first 6 months then I would be concerned...

Ok, I couldn't let this go by (I tried, realllllly hard ;-). I work in the industry, and trying to build ANYTHING completely new in 6 months is extremely difficult. By the time you

a) Define the market and product (3-4wks)
b) Design the product (6-8 wks for something pretty simple)
c) Purchase components and fabricate prototypes (2-8 wks)
d) Debug, test, voice etc (3-5 wks)
e) Spin in changes and build a test run (3-4wks)
f) QA, alpha test, beta test (6-8 wks)

you are talking 23-37 wks. . .with a very aggressive schedule. Missing are little details like industrial design, mechanical work, UL/Safety, FCC, licensing certs and firmware/software. Some stuff can be done in parallel of course, but if you honestly think you are going to see new, polished products in 6 months, I think you are in for a dissapointment.

You might get an announcement, or if there was something that was already substantially underway, who knows.

markd

Michael Osadciw

11-08-07, 11:09 PM

this is interesting. i've been waiting to get a Theta for sometime now...but I am one of those guys who has been holding out for the HDMI upgrade. I could never justify spending so much on any processor for lossy audio. I knew lossless would be around someday...although I've been itchy for a new preamp for a long time now...too bad I've been waiting for so long...oh well...I was able to spread the $$$ elsewhere for a while. Curious to see new announcements...hopefully good news to come.

Joelc

11-09-07, 12:48 AM

Ok, I couldn't let this go by (I tried, realllllly hard ;-). I work in the industry, and trying to build ANYTHING completely new in 6 months is extremely difficult. By the time you

a) Define the market and product (3-4wks)
b) Design the product (6-8 wks for something pretty simple)
c) Purchase components and fabricate prototypes (2-8 wks)
d) Debug, test, voice etc (3-5 wks)
e) Spin in changes and build a test run (3-4wks)
f) QA, alpha test, beta test (6-8 wks)

you are talking 23-37 wks. . .with a very aggressive schedule. Missing are little details like industrial design, mechanical work, UL/Safety, FCC, licensing certs and firmware/software. Some stuff can be done in parallel of course, but if you honestly think you are going to see new, polished products in 6 months, I think you are in for a dissapointment.

You might get an announcement, or if there was something that was already substantially underway, who knows.

markd

I think you missed my point...assuming that Theta Old was working on HDMI, CBIV, etc...then these should be brought to market within the near term...

mdesmarais

11-09-07, 07:00 AM

I think you missed my point...assuming that Theta Old was working on HDMI, CBIV, etc...then these should be brought to market within the near term...

That was why I added this-

or if there was something that was already substantially underway, who knows.

;)

I agree- if they were close, then sure, it could be announced any time. But that isn't really a good measure of what the buyers commitment is- unless they are really <not very bright> any company is going to allow an almost complete product to be released. After all, the R&D is paid for. Longer term is really where you need to look.

For that matter, if a company is in disarray when it is bought (which may or may not be visible to the outside world) it may be more than a year or two before you see new products.

I just think that only giving them 6 months may be shortchanging them.

Markd

Nick Satullo

11-09-07, 07:31 AM

thebland

11-09-07, 08:45 AM

With an old processor like the CB, I would imagine they will end it and come out swinging with a new, fully redesigned Hdmi 1.3 processor to start fresh. I can't see them spendikng the time, effort, R+D to retrofit a decade old unit.

DOMAIN64

11-09-07, 09:04 AM

Three Questions I want answered.

1. What is the real advantage ATI would derive from buying Theta?

2. How will the two physically operate? (In US and Canada? or will they be under one roof)

3. Are the ATI owners businessman? or are they hifi guys? as has been suggested with former SAE affiliations. (Long time ago)

Paul

mburnstein

11-09-07, 09:05 AM

Nick Satullo

11-09-07, 09:07 AM

mark haflich

11-09-07, 10:51 AM

Steve says he is in good shape. A pear is a good shape for a pear.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 11:00 AM

Steve says he is in good shape. A pear is a good shape for a pear.

Mark, as a very successful two channel and home theater dealer, and as a Theta dealer as well, what's your insights or speculation into this situation???
Jokes aside (for once).:)

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 11:03 AM

While I sincerely hope that Theta "survives" in some form, several key questions present themselves:

1. Is this a stock or asset purchase? It could dictate whether there is any legal responsibility for ATI to honor anything that Theta did.

2. Who will honor warranties?

3. Will ATI be a truly "successor corporation" to Theta, or will it disclaim responsibility for what occurred in the past.

Theta owners (particularly of product that still has warranty time remaining on it) should ask these questions. As for "upgrades" and the like, well, obviously someone altogether different will make those decisions.

Nick :cool:

Nick, I was thinking the same questions. Although Neil Sinclair did advise me re the sale last week, he couldn't go into specifics due to a nondisclosure agreement and I am on the hedge as well re all of these questions. Notwithstanding, I have gotten great use of my Theta gear all these years
and my system works great now even without HDMI multi-channel audio.
Of course if I'd more recently bought into the Casablanca as an upgradeable surround processor (instead of buying it back in 1997 and upgrading since then) I'd be even more concerned.

Nick Satullo

11-09-07, 11:15 AM

Nick, I was thinking the same questions. Although Neil Sinclair did advise me re the sale last week, he couldn't go into specifics due to a nondisclosure agreement and I am on the hedge as well re all of these questions. Notwithstanding, I have gotten great use of my Theta gear all these years
and my system works great now even without HDMI multi-channel audio.
Of course if I'd more recently bought into the Casablanca as an upgradeable surround processor (instead of buying it back in 1997 and upgrading since then) I'd be even more concerned.

What I think people need to understand is that Theta being "sold" could also mean that Theta is effectively "gone." What might have been sold was a bag full of patents that ATI intends to use for other purposes. That is why I raised the question of the type of purchase.

While I do hope that Theta owners are not left in the cold, I can't say I'm surprised by a development like this. In this environment, I don't see how any company of modest means can survive, let alone prosper. The real message--especially to people that populate these boards--is that survival is only assured to the Sonys and the Samsungs. But that is hardly good news. The high end is in real trouble.

Nick :cool:

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 11:24 AM

What I think people need to understand is that Theta being "sold" could also mean that Theta is effectively "gone." What might have been sold was a bag full of patents that ATI intends to use for other purposes. That is why I raised the question of the type of purchase.

While I do hope that Theta owners are not left in the cold, I can't say I'm surprised by a development like this. In this environment, I don't see how any company of modest means can survive, let alone prosper. The real message--especially to people that populate these boards--is that survival is only assured to the Sonys and the Samsungs. But that is hardly good news. The high end is in real trouble.

Nick :cool:

Neil did advise that David Reich and the other key employees (other than Neil and his ex-wife Evelyn Sinclair, and one other) were staying on and this is good news. But how good depends on all the key points that you raised, those questions are the meat.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 11:25 AM

Neil did advise that Dave Reich and the other key employees (other than Neil and his ex-wife Evelyn Sinclair, and one other) were staying on and this is good news. But how good depends on all the key points that you raised, those questions are the meat. And Neil wasn't free to discuss those questions due to nondisclusre (which is understandable, but does leave Theta owners in the lurch on this for now)

Mozvz

11-09-07, 11:27 AM

What I think people need to understand is that Theta being "sold" could also mean that Theta is effectively "gone." What might have been sold was a bag full of patents that ATI intends to use for other purposes. That is why I raised the question of the type of purchase.
Nick :cool:

If your hypothetical statement would be factual, then would it be fair to write that the owner of Theta sold out the customers that he worked to create and build confidence through the years? In essence he hung them out to dry? Is he the type of man in character that would allow this to happen?

I only bring this up because Mr. Sinclair who I am sure Steve and some of you know, would have a better point of view on this. Looking at his personal character may give you some insight into what may transpire in the future?

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 12:12 PM

If your hypothetical statement would be factual, then would it be fair to write that the owner of Theta sold out the customers that he worked to create and build confidence through the years? In essence he hung them out to dry? Is he the type of man in character that would allow this to happen?

I only bring this up because Mr. Sinclair who I am sure Steve and some of you know, would have a better point of view on this. Looking at his personal character may give you some insight into what may transpire in the future?

The fact that Neil kept Theta going as his company for twenty years speaks for itself re his character.

However, market conditions change, its legal for a corporation to sell only its assets as Nick pointed out, and this question hasn't really been answered yet. Even I don't know the answer. And even good folks like Neil sometimes reach a point where the risks of continuing business just aren't worth it and they sell the company's assets. I don't know what Neil did here. I imagine we'll find out in the near future. Although I often vehemently disagree with Nick on stuff I don't think he's being unfair in raising these questions. And of course I hope that Theta had enough going for it that ATI wants to keep it going and keep its past customers happy - we will find out, won't we.

Nick Satullo

11-09-07, 12:40 PM

A corporation is a device that can be created, and can be recognized as a legal entity, capable of doing business (signing contracts, paying taxes, selling product, the list is endless).

One of the chief features of a corporation is the concept of limited liability for its owners. This extends not only to corporations, but to the various limited liability business formations that are recognized from state to state.

Limited liability means that, when you do business with a corporation, you expressly recognize that you're not doing business with its owners, except under very limited circumstances (when the business owners engage in fraud or other conduct which permits one to "pierce the corporate veil" in litigation).

There is actually sound economic policy behind this, since the concept of limited liability encourages risk-taking, i.e, we want to encourage enterprise, and giving shareholders limited liability from their corporations that they own is one way of doing that.

What this also means is that the buyer must beware when doing business with a corporation. It is only as good as its own assets. You don't get to the owner's assets. In the case of a sale of the corporation, you always ask whether it is the stock that is being sold--in which case the debts and responsibilities of the corporation are taken over by the new owners (simplistically stated); or whether it is an asset purchase, in which case the new owners only buy assets, and acquire no liabilities that sort of "ride" with a stock purchase.

If what you read in the press release is that Theta's assets were acquired, then get ready for Theta to be effectively gone. While ATI might intend to use the name and continue to market some of its line (and that might be enough for ATI to acquire certain liabilities, if it is deemed a "successor corporation") we really need to wait and see.

Has there been a press release yet?

Nick :cool:

Bulldogger

11-09-07, 12:47 PM

I think you missed my point...assuming that Theta Old was working on HDMI, CBIV, etc...then these should be brought to market within the near term...

It was my understanding that they never actually started working on the HDMI boards. They were waiting for the standards to become more final. First they waited for the HMDI 1.3 standard but it was never quite finalized. Then they were waiting for HDMI 1.3b.

marklnj

11-09-07, 01:19 PM

What is ATI's track record with previous M&As? This type of information, if any, can be useful until time reveals their true intentions.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 01:22 PM

It was my understanding that they never actually started working on the HDMI boards. They were waiting for the standards to become more final. First they waited for the HMDI 1.3 standard but it was never quite finalized. Then they were waiting for HDMI 1.3b.

Actually my understanding is that Theta was doing some work with HDMI but waiting to finalize. But none of this really means anything until "The Fat Lady Sings" so to speak!!@@ Its all speculation for now.

Michael Osadciw

11-09-07, 01:43 PM

hmmm...hopefully the Casablanca sticks around. It's the only processor available that allows subwoofer outputs per channel and a 6dB slope option (as my Dunlavys use first order crossovers). Would work great for me because I'd like to ditch my noisy Mirage LFX-3 crossovers and run everything balanced...differential balanced operation from preamp to amp. Yikes...if this type of operation were to be eliminated on future products, I'd might as well look at other options. The Casablanca III is a product for my needs...hopefully ATI doesn't change these options for the future other than allowing more updated advanced options on a possible Casablanca IV.

It's only natural for an owner to sell his/her business one day. People aren't alive forever. I'd just hate to see Theta go the way of Dunlavy...that was a disaster and disappointment.

Lex22

11-09-07, 01:48 PM

While we wait on an announcement, is there any precedent in the industry for how other acquisition/mergers went?

The only mergers I can think of are the various deals Harman has done, and the results there are obviously mixed. Proceed was eventually eliminated, but Lexicon has thrived from what I can tell.

I think the bigger issue in all of this could be that the high end is really struggling. It was only a few weeks ago where there was a discussion here about Krell and what might be happening with them. Now this. Then you have the collapse of the Harman private equity deal. KKR does not usually walk away unless they have a good reason (even with the credit crisis, other private equity deals are happening).

My CBIII works great and I love it. Assuming it doesn't break, I'll get many more years out of it even if they never do HDMI since right now I don't see anything that HDMI gives that I want or need right now.

I seem to remember reading somewhere, maybe here, an interview or post from Neil Sinclair saying that if they had to do it over again, they never would have done the CB with the modularity and upgradability that it had. I remember thinking that didn't bode well.

In addition, where have their new products like the Valis been. It was announced two years ago. Are they even available yet? Maybe this sale is about the principals in the company giving up? Product development is hard and getting harder.

Finally, a cynic would be excused for thinking that the big sale this summer on the CBIII and the amplifiers was done to juice the revenue numbers to make them look like a better acquisition target.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 01:55 PM

Finally, a cynic would be excused for thinking that the big sale this summer on the CBIII and the amplifiers was done to juice the revenue numbers to make them look like a better acquisition target.

Yes, I have wondered about that, too.

But I gotta tell ya. I just LOVE my Theta Enterprise amps. And with the half price sale and even further dealer discount, I got a fantastic price too good to pass up. They sound fantastic. I'd do it again even if I knew Theta wouldn't be around soon. The amps are that good especially at that good a price!!!@@@

sierraalphahotel

11-09-07, 02:05 PM

This thread is making for some depressing reading. I know all the facts aint in, but based on the speculation...:(

I would feel better if they had done a summer sale here in the UK as well (when I bought my Theta gear) Well, them's the breaks I guess. :(

GoodSonics

11-09-07, 02:27 PM

Nick Satullo

11-09-07, 02:35 PM

What is ATI's track record with previous M&As? This type of information, if any, can be useful until time reveals their true intentions.

It's probably not useful to think of this in terms of mergers and acquisitions. Theta is almost certainly a small, closely-held company, whose likely owners are only the Sinclairs. That is not unusual in high end audio. Most of the small, boutique entities are of similar character. Lots of speaker companies are like that.

While reference is being made to the "purchase" of Lexicon, it's not really a fair characterization. Lexicon was only one of many subsidiary companies of a large, publicly traded entity named Harman International. When KKR announced its purchase of Harman, they got Lexicon as part of the deal. Because of its affiliation with Harman, Lexicon got the benefit of being part of an extremely well-capitalized company. I'm not saying that Lexicon will fare any better as a result--the jury is still out on that, but I do know that Lexicon is a lot larger than popularly conceived.

That said, since ATI has apparently bought other companies, it would probably be telling to look at the structure of those purchases. If the "purchased" company ultimately faded away, it's likely that only assets were being purchased. I have to believe there's value to the Theta name, however, and I would bet that something gets marketed as "Theta."

Nick :cool:

Lex22

11-09-07, 02:42 PM

It's probably not useful to think of this in terms of mergers and acquisitions. Theta is almost certainly a small, closely-held company, whose likely owners are only the Sinclairs. That is not unusual in high end audio. Most of the small, boutique entities are of similar character. Lots of speaker companies are like that.

While reference is being made to the "purchase" of Lexicon, it's not really a fair characterization. Lexicon was only one of many subsidiary companies of a large, publicly traded entity named Harman International. When KKR announced its purchase of Harman, they got Lexicon as part of the deal. Because of its affiliation with Harman, Lexicon got the benefit of being part of an extremely well-capitalized company. I'm not saying that Lexicon will fare any better as a result--the jury is still out on that, but I do know that Lexicon is a lot larger than popularly conceived.

That said, since ATI has apparently bought other companies, it would probably be telling to look at the structure of those purchases. If the "purchased" company ultimately faded away, it's likely that only assets were being purchased. I have to believe there's value to the Theta name, however, and I would bet that something gets marketed as "Theta."

Nick :cool:

Who else has ATI purchased? Their website shows only one brand.

Does anyone know if ATI was manufacturing for Theta before the deal? ATI appears to do contract manufacturing for a number of companies.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 02:43 PM

Steve,

If you are looking to bail on Theta now, there are 5 Halcro SSP-100s on Audiogon right now. The time will never be better. :D

Actually, it sounds like this could be good news for Theta. You never know for sure though, until it's too late.

Good Luck to the Theta Owners,
Darrell

AGAIN! My Theta CB3 and Six Shooter meets all of my needs fine, including HD DVD, SACD and DVD-A, and redbook CD, given how my system is setup.
Yea if Theta sticks around and upgrades eventually my CB3 to a 4 version with HDMI and it sounds even better for HD DVD or Blue Ray that would be great, but it already sounds darn fine for those formats. I'm getting my value for now.

Five Halcros for sale. Makes ya wonder why, doesn' it? I mean, Halcro pretty new in the surround processor game. Someone should contact the sellers and see if they'll tell you why they are leaving Halcro.

thebland

11-09-07, 02:48 PM

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 03:18 PM

Steve,

What really makes me wonder is why Theta's CBIII is no different in functionality than a pre-pro from 15 years ago....yet folks paid $15K for it.

THe Halcro piece is nice and now doing LPCM over HDMi.

Theta is over.

You should take advantage of those Halcro pieces for sale and move your set up to the 21st century technology!!:D

I don't disagree that the Halcro piece is nice with the latest greatest technology. However, it will give me LPCM over HDMI, but it won't give me the best multi-channel analog sound that I get from my Theta Six Shooter.
I'm still very happy with what I got, as I've upgraded my CB over several generations. Not that I wouldn't like to upgrade another generation or two but that remains to be seen.

Jeff, you've been hangin' around my good friend Mark Burnstein too much. HA!

Mebbe Theta is over. Mebbe Theta isn't. The fat lady hasn't quite sung yet although you're Soprano still goes strong and shrill!!!@@@

Nick Satullo

11-09-07, 04:03 PM

Certainly Steve can say that he's gotten his money's worth out of his CBIII, but it's a bit different for those who recently purchased them. Even if ATI continues the Theta branding for a while, it's virtually certain that the CB (I, II, or III) won't see any further upgrades.

I'd be angry if I purchased one within the recent past. These deals don't just happen--if there's been a sale, then the thought of a sale has been around for quite a bit longer. Look at it like this: When you decide you're going to sell your house, the last thing you want to do is put money into it, except that money which is necessary to induce a sale. You're not putting "long-haul" money into it.

A lot of the wait-and-see rhetoric that Theta has promoted concerning its plans for HDMI has to be looked at with some skepticism now. I was always skeptical of it, because of all the discussion concerning the real lack of necessity for HDMI 1.3 (so long as the decoding is done in the player). While we may never know their true intentions, the business about waiting for the new spec could well have been a mask for "we're looking to sell, and the last thing we're going to do now is adopt a new interface whose cost will take years of sales to recoup--years that we have no intention of spending."

I just looked at the ATI website. It boasts of ATI winning an award for "best midlevel amplifier" by some Audio magazine or society. As some on this thread have already pointed out, it's stretching the seams of likelihood to think that a company that markets itself as a value alternative to the high end can seriously be expected to change its spots. If Theta sticks around as a brand name, it will likely be a dumbed-down Theta.

But . . . who knows? For "news" that was supposed to be announced a few days ago, it's interesting that there's no press release yet. Perhaps the most interesting thing to me is just what Theta had that ATI wanted. We'll see.

Nick :cool:

thebland

11-09-07, 04:09 PM

I agree Nick. Likely the reason they skipped HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 altogether was to keep as much cash as possible while searching out a buyer. Ironically, it is this news that will cause an influx of Thetas to the used market....whenever the press release happens. As a Theta owner, now is the time to sell as once the news gets out, the value will drop precipitously....But don't advertise it as HDMI upgradeable as this is unlikely.

sierraalphahotel

11-09-07, 04:19 PM

A lot of the wait-and-see rhetoric that Theta has promoted concerning its plans for HDMI has to be looked at with some skepticism now. I was always skeptical of it, because of all the discussion concerning the real lack of necessity for HDMI 1.3 (so long as the decoding is done in the player). While we may never know their true intentions, the business about waiting for the new spec could well have been a mask for "we're looking to sell, and the last thing we're going to do now is adopt a new interface whose cost will take years of sales to recoup--years that we have no intention of spending."

Nick I appreciate your insight.

Of course I am hoping for a positive outcome to all this, being that I am a recent purchaser. Things have distinctly changed from a little while back when Evelyn was stating here that it was considered "urgent" by Theta to get an HDMI solution out this year. This statement went some way towards me having confidence to buy the product. I am not doing some lame finger pointing here, because no one had gun to my head and as you say; this worry may all be moot. I will keep my domestic Champagne on ice for the moment though!

Regards,

Sean

Bulldogger

11-09-07, 04:50 PM

Five Halcros for sale. Makes ya wonder why, doesn' it? I mean, Halcro pretty new in the surround processor game. Someone should contact the sellers and see if they'll tell you why they are leaving Halcro.

There is a several month wait to have a currently existing SSP100 updated to accepting 7.1 LPCM. It is much faster to sell your old unit and buy a new unit that has been manufactured with the 7.1 LPCM upgrade. This avoids the several months delay.

euryd

11-09-07, 05:10 PM

Steve,

What really makes me wonder is why Theta's CBIII is no different in functionality than a pre-pro from 15 years ago....yet folks paid $15K for it.

THe Halcro piece is nice and now doing LPCM over HDMi.

Theta is over.

You should take advantage of those Halcro pieces for sale and move your set up to the 21st century technology!!:D

Jeff,

I do not believe that Theta is that outdated. Theta was up to date up until the introduction of the new HD audio formats via HDMI for Bluray and HD-DVD. This has only been around for a little over 1 year and not 15 years.

To me, the reason Theta is highly valued is due to the design of their DACs and the jitter reduction circuitry for clocking these DACs not for their digital audio decoders. Essentially you get digital decoding (which anyone can do given time) coupled with audiophile level DACs.

For example, if you want the latest digital decoding capability, you should get the Pioneer Elite receivers or the Integra DTC 9.8 which can decode all the HD audio formats. Even the latest Halcro can't do all of it at the moment. I believe the SSP200 cannot decode bitstream DTS-MA which is one output mode of the Pioneer BDP-95HD. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Bulldogger

11-09-07, 05:18 PM

Hold your horses guys. There is some good news on the horizon. Sorry but I will have to be vague. It's not BS though, I would not give you guys false hope. There is however some real hope for the long term survival of the brand. I won't spend my "upgrade to the CB IV" money just yet;).

sierraalphahotel

11-09-07, 05:23 PM

bigbrother52

11-09-07, 05:40 PM

Evelyn Sinclair started the thread "James Randi’s attack on high performance audio".
Seeming genuinely concerned that his attack hurts the high-end audio market and leaves her personally feeling...

"Is my whole career a fraud?

I spent 15 years helping people hear for themselves the differences between hi fi components, in the store Absolute Audio in southern California. I have always been proud of what we did for people.
Now there are people posting comments over at Gizmodo about how all audiophiles are deluded suckers".

Given this, if the Sinclairs sold Theta Digital, knowing full well that ATI would dismantle it and leave all the current owners of their high-end, future proof, upgradeable equipment in the lurch, then it has been a fraud and we have quite literally been suckered in by them.

Knowing that they have such great concern for the high-end, that this would not be the case and that they would not intentionally help to hasten it's demise.

That's my hope and my feeling and why I bought my 2nd Casablanca.
I hope I didn't place my bet on the wrong horse, I don't think so!

Good Luck

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 05:43 PM

I luv Theta, but at this point there are no hard facts, its all speculation. Yea, I've heard that ATI signed a long term lease on the Theta facilities - but until its formally announced, its just rumor or gossip. Sorry, Gotta separate my audioluv from my lawyerese.

As for Jeff "The Bland", he doesn't believe in jitter or reduction - to him they all sound the same anyway. He's glad to get the latest technology regardless of whether it sounds any better. Read his posts over the years and that's what stands out. HA!

Still,notwithstanding Jeff, the Halcro is a nice piece and the latest greatest pricewise and technologywise. Still I luv my "vinyl" Theta.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 05:46 PM

That's my hope and my feeling and why I bought my 2nd Casablanca.
I hope I didn't place my bet on the wrong horse, I don't think so!

Good Luck

GIven the quick advances of new technology in recent years, buying expensive home theater gear is like betting, isn't it?

You wanna be safe, just stick with stereo CD or even LP - it ain't goin' nowhere.

mark haflich

11-09-07, 05:51 PM

euryd

11-09-07, 05:52 PM

GIven the quick advances of new technology in recent years, buying expensive home theater gear is like betting, isn't it?

You wanna be safe, just stick with stereo CD or even LP - it ain't goin' nowhere.

Steve,

I wish Theta had a 8-shooter. Nowadays, the 6-shooter is just not enough channels with 7.1 HD audio.

thebland

11-09-07, 06:03 PM

Jeff,

I do not believe that Theta is that outdated. Theta was up to date up until the introduction of the new HD audio formats via HDMI for Bluray and HD-DVD. This has only been around for a little over 1 year and not 15 years.

To me, the reason Theta is highly valued is due to the design of their DACs and the jitter reduction circuitry for clocking these DACs not for their digital audio decoders. Essentially you get digital decoding (which anyone can do given time) coupled with audiophile level DACs.

For example, if you want the latest digital decoding capability, you should get the Pioneer Elite receivers or the Integra DTC 9.8 which can decode all the HD audio formats. Even the latest Halcro can't do all of it at the moment. I believe the SSP200 cannot decode bitstream DTS-MA which is one output mode of the Pioneer BDP-95HD. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

THe Halcros are not HDMI 1.3 so none will accept DTS MA bitstream / TRUE HD bitstream. That said, the Halcros will accept player decoded PCM over HDMI (e.g. DTS MA, TRUE HD, Uncompressed LPCM) which identical to the uncompressed bitstream AND you can apply all post processing in the processor in the digital domain. This is not possible when using the analogs unless you do an extra A/D conversion and use the HD DVD players DACs.

The difference between Steve and myself is I buy processors for movies only. Not to do double duty in a multi use room. And if you don't have HDMI, you are missing out on 1080P video and lossless sound through a competent processor. If I had an audiophile set up, I'd be far away from Theta and be close to Audio Research and the likes. The audio options, SACD, LP accesories and such are immaterial for me.

Steve tweaks down to the speaker cable holder bridges that sit on the floor of his dedicated room, modified components, expensive cables, a well design room, etc, etc., yet uses a $99 HD DVD player DACs for lossless sound. I don't no why he has avoided updating his processor......Can't wait to see what Steve buys to bring his sound up to date!!!;) (I like pulling your chain on this topic:D)

DOMAIN64

11-09-07, 06:19 PM

mark haflich

11-09-07, 06:21 PM

Is HD DVD player is reference quality compared to his projector. Go figure. Sorry Steve, its like throwing a snow ball at the side of a barn from 10 feet away.

Alimentall

11-09-07, 06:30 PM

DOMAIN64

11-09-07, 06:39 PM

[QUOTE=thebland;12173912]If I had an audiophile set up, I'd be far away from Theta and be close to Audio Research and the likes.

Not to defend Steve here but::

Hey Bland, is Audio Research your idea of an audiophile set up?

Don't they do tube analog?

Does 20 pounds of Dac in a Theta GEN 8 sound like something you would want to be far away from as an audiophile? or is that 15 years too old?

euryd

11-09-07, 06:48 PM

THe Halcros are not HDMI 1.3 so none will accept DTS MA bitstream / TRUE HD bitstream. That said, the Halcros will accept player decoded PCM over HDMI (e.g. DTS MA, TRUE HD, Uncompressed LPCM) which identical to the uncompressed bitstream AND you can apply all post processing in the processor in the digital domain. This is not possible when using the analogs unless you do an extra A/D conversion and use the HD DVD players DACs.

I agree that decoded PCM over HDMI is equivalent but which player outputs DTS-MA in PCM? Maybe we will see such a player in the next 6 months.

Instead of the Halcro, why not just get an Integra DTC 9.8 which can decode bitstream HD. It is priced less than 1/6th that of the Halcro. The only reason to get the Halcro is the (assumed) better analog, i.e. the DACs and the low jitter clocking. One can use the Integra until Halcro finally gets their act together.

Nick Satullo

11-09-07, 06:50 PM

My bets are on Theta

It would make NO sense for ATI, a mid fi brand, to acquire the hi end brand and not grow it.

There would be cause for concern if this deal involved two hi end brands- than it would just result in buying the assets,the name and their market....NOT the case here.

If you're betting "on Theta," then you're not appreciating what's happening here. Who is "Theta?" The point is, since it's being sold, no one knows. ATI will control the direction of the thing you call "Theta." No matter what happens, you're dealing with a complete unknown, since only time will tell what the new owners will do with whatever it is they've purchased.

Besides, the reality is that no one will really know the truth for quite some time. There are often reasons to paint one face on something, but, over time, another one emerges. Even if you hear hopeful things, like "we're going to continue [fill in the blanks]," there's simply too many reasons to say something like that, while what actually happens is something completely different. While I doubt a company like Theta has much by way of inventory, there are plenty of reasons to suggest that something will stick around, when there is no real intent to keep it around. And, unfortunately, there are plenty of ways to phrase such things that you're really expressing a hope, as opposed to a fact--meaning that you're not saying something for which someone can later accuse you of outright deception (and, I hate to say it, but saying something like "we consider it urgent to adopt HDMI" is such an expression that builds up hopes, but provides no assurances), although your real intention is to build up hopes without committing to a thing.

The audio world is replete with examples. I listened for over two years as Citation "promised" a digital upgrade to the otherwise superb Citation 7.0, and it never occurred . . . and then Citation was gone. Nearly everyone has a tale.

It is too early to say anything with any degree of certainty. But, no matter what happens now, even if there is a company still called "Theta," you don't know it since it never existed before. At the very least, the company just had the equivalent of a brain transplant. You don't yet know the new person.

Nick :cool:

Bulldogger

11-09-07, 07:12 PM

I agree that decoded PCM over HDMI is equivalent but which player outputs DTS-MA in PCM? Maybe we will see such a player in the next 6 months..

I remember DTS stating that DTS-Master audio WOULD not be decoded to PCM and output. That it would have to be decoded in the processor. Did they change their position?

DOMAIN64

11-09-07, 07:38 PM

. Who is "Theta?" The point is, since it's being sold, no one knows. ATI will control the direction of the thing you call "Theta." No matter what happens, you're dealing with a complete unknown, since only time will tell what the new owners will do with whatever it is they've purchased.

Good Points Nick,

Looks like you have witnessed your share of corporate "indifference", and I agree with you 100% on those points.

Perhaps I should redefine: What I meant by "Theta" was the core that it has represented for the last 20 years. You would agree that was Theta's largest asset no?

What you are witnessing with me is a rare example of optimism. This deal was not about money and retirement.

If ATI could "mother the orphan" if you will, the old Theta company, give them security, benefits and R&D money and most importantly let them operate in their own space then i think this will be a positive to the industry and give us all alot of good stuff to hash on this forum.

Paul

Mozvz

11-09-07, 07:44 PM

.
If ATI could "mother the orphan" if you will, the old Theta company, give them security, benefits and R&D money and most importantly let them operate in their own space then i think this will be a positive to the industry and give us all alot of good stuff to hash on this forum.

Paul

I don't know anything about the financial's of Theta, but with my experience in the corporate world, autonomy lasts as long as profits meet or exceed expectations. Hopefully the Theta group will remain intact with a cash infusion from ATI allowing them to do as you write.

sdurani

11-09-07, 07:45 PM

How will the two physically operate? (In US and Canada? or will they be under one roof)Canada? You might be thinking of ATI, the company that makes graphics/video cards.

Theta was bought by ATI, the amp maker. They're in Montibello, California (a few miles from where I live). Theta is in Agoura Hills, only 40 miles away from ATI; close enough that they may not need to operate under one roof (at least not right away).

Sanjay

thebland

11-09-07, 07:52 PM

Bulldogger

11-09-07, 07:54 PM

Steve,

I wish Theta had a 8-shooter. Nowadays, the 6-shooter is just not enough channels with 7.1 HD audio.

I have two of them. I do 7.1.

Alimentall

11-09-07, 08:04 PM

FWIW, if a company didn't care about identity, it would simply start producing gear that competes with Theta. The fact that it paid for Theta means that Theta has something they consider valuable and worthwhile. Companies rarely buy a non-competitor to screw it up. At least, not on purpose!

Bulldogger

11-09-07, 08:07 PM

denon's upcoming player will do it.

Integra is not really a brand I'd put up front in my set up. I am sure it is nice vut I imagine it steely sounding... That said, I am pleased with Halcro's sound and feel I got my money's worth.

Denon transports means that Mcintosh will have access to them. Eventually, Mcintosh may make a universal player like Denon intends to do. I'll likely just use my Six Shooters with a unit such as that. Remember I said that I was considering doing this anyway. Not like I don't already have a ton of interconnects to do it. Having every item separate really does sound better. I know I am alone in being willing to do it this way. Most don't want the mess of all of those cables.

Will Gibbons

11-09-07, 08:16 PM

I would not characterize my Integra Research as steely sounding. The sound quality has been quite smooth and enjoyable--not grainy, piercing, or ear bleeding. However, the company leaves much to be desired from a customer service/support perspective. There are a few excellent dealers for the Onkyo, Integra and Integra Research lines, but factory support is not good. Do not fall for their upgradable marketing. Purchase their products on what is offered and working today, not what could be upgraded tomorrow--that may be good rule for all A/V, but there are companies with good history of support and upgrades. In fairness to these manufacturers, they have not been driving the show on features. They are having to respond to dictates beyond their control making it very difficult to forecast in a design.

Will

lktanx

11-09-07, 08:18 PM

I have two of them. I do 7.1.

Yes you can do that. It just takes more space and $. So heres a list of equipment needed to decode all the formats:

1. Theta cas
2. 2xsix-shooter
3. Integra dtc9.8 or equivalent

Steve Goff

11-09-07, 09:31 PM

DOMAIN64

11-09-07, 09:37 PM

It is pretty funny for anyone owning anything Halcro to call anything else steely sounding.

Yes or maybe Audio Research tubes could warm Jeffs feet on those cold and steely detroit nights.

thebland

11-09-07, 09:48 PM

Solid state=Home Theater
audiophilia=tubes.

And it's cold here tonight....

thebland

11-09-07, 09:54 PM

When my oldest moves out....then I can do audio right..... but no room now...:)

Michael Grant

11-09-07, 10:14 PM

Bunk beds!

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 11:39 PM

Steve tweaks down to the speaker cable holder bridges that sit on the floor of his dedicated room, modified components, expensive cables, a well design room, etc, etc., yet uses a $99 HD DVD player DACs for lossless sound. I don't no why he has avoided updating his processor......Can't wait to see what Steve buys to bring his sound up to date!!!;) (I like pulling your chain on this topic:D)

What counts is how it sounds. Mike Parker has said my home theater and multi-channel music setup is the best he's ever heard. (I didn't say it, he said it.) Yea, I wasn't expecting the Toshiba HD-XA1 to sound so good in my system with its allegedly "cheap" DACs either, but it does. And that's what counts.

If it was just about what you spend to make it sound good, I'd just give the green ball of $$$ to the local custoim dealer with the fancy showroom who is an "expert" as home theater and sound rooms for pro sports and other rich folks. Yet I've never experienced what I consider quality sonics in our local dealers as such despite the price tags for their rooms and gear often many times mine. Jeff, you can't hear the difference anyway (you, not me) so quit yanking my chain. HA!

Steve Bruzonsky

11-09-07, 11:44 PM

When my oldest moves out....then I can do audio right..... but no room now...:)

First you're gonna have to clean the wax out of your ears and the anchors out of your sound recognition chambers of your brain!!!@@@ :D

mark haflich

11-10-07, 03:54 AM

Bulldogger

11-10-07, 04:02 AM

Solid state=Home Theater
audiophilia=tubes.

And it's cold here tonight....

Not really. Most of the audiophiles I know have solid state two channel pre-amps.

tyree91

11-10-07, 04:43 AM

Yes you can do that. It just takes more space and $. So heres a list of equipment needed to decode all the formats:

1. Theta cas
2. 2xsix-shooter
3. Integra dtc9.8 or equivalent

From a previous thread: So, here's he deal. I've got a Toshiba HD-A35 w/ DTHD & DTS-MA bit stream out. I'm getting a Pioneer Elite BDP-95HD which outputs both DTHD & DTS MA. I am going to input them via HDMI into a Denon AVR-3808 and use it's Pre-Amp outs into a 5.1 input of the Six Shooter. The Denon will also give me control & power over outside zones, which is being done by older gear at this time, as well as connection to our network for WAV Files, Internet Radio, USB, etc. I figure the Denon has better DACS than the Players, as well as better signal management and it lets me kill 3 birds with one stone. I will also be able to utilize the Audessey Pro Room Correction that Denon includes. Compared to the cost of the Multi Players, Pre-Pros, Amps, & Speakers on this forum the cost of this solution is minimal. It gets me up and running right now with the new formats in a form which is about as good as it gets at this time, and gives me patience to wait for Theta to come up with the ultimate solution to this issue. I don't know why no one else has done it until now. I will still do the majority of my listening and viewing with CD, SD DVD, and Satellite via the Extreme Cards in the CB III. Regards, Norm

This addition is now complete and operating to a T. It gives me the best of both worlds; DD, DTS, Circle Surround, SACD, DVD-A, and Redbook via the CB III,Compli,and Six Shooter. DD+, Dolby True HD, & DTS-MA from both HD DVD as well as Blu Ray. The Denon has very good Dacs and gives excellent bass management as well as Audessey room correction. This input into the Six Shooter via the Denon Preamp outs. The only hard part was all the different Macros I had to write for my Universal MSC-4oo.
I must report that while the format war is a piss off, because Theta had the foresight to develop a state of the art 5.1 analogue preamp it is possible to have it all right now while doing it all, and doing it well, and the CB III is still the center of it all.

Regards, Norm

Steve Bruzonsky

11-10-07, 07:48 AM

And Mark Haflich who agrees with Mike Parker about the sound in Steve's theater, thinks the video in Steve's theater is the worst he has ever seen (not really, but nothing at all close to the sound quality level).

Mark is half blind anyway and can't even see black level. And he is so mentally challenged at his advanced age that he can't distinguish between 12 and 7 feet wide. HA!

Steve Bruzonsky

11-10-07, 08:01 AM

Steve. The owner of Theta is no spring chicken and has been living in Hawaii for many years. Many many companies get sold as the owner approaches retirement. Its called cashing out. Business has been decreasing for most two channel companies and if a big cash ioffer comes in and you don't have children to take over the business, it was probably very prudent to sell. I have received no notification from Theta about the sale. It will be business as usual for quite some time and all I would expect is a different address to send invoice payments.

Companies such as Polk, Omnimount, Martin Logan have changed hands and nothing really changed. Energy and Mirage were sold to Klipsch. The sales people changed a bit and so did the rep firms but not much else. Of course its all made in China now rather than what use to be the Audio Products International factory in Canada.

Mark, I know full well where Neil as owner of Theta lives - but I don't necessarily broadcast it. You have a big mouth! (Mike Parker and I are your friends - we tell you this out of love)!

Your "business as usual" statement is a crock.

My situation is very different than someone considering buying Theta from you brand new with you as the dealer. I've got years of use out of my Theta gear and I luv it - and it works for me for some years to come as is regardless of HDMI in my setup with what you would call my "antiquated Dwin CRT" (which is totally quiet - you can spend a lotta money audiophilly to add quietness to an audio system).
When I first bought the Casablanca in 1997 it was the latest and greatest and turned out to be upgradeable for years.

But now you want a new buyer to invest many thousands into a CB3 at near retail from you, when ATI hasn't even stated their plans for Thea publicly, that new buyers should assume "business as usual". As a dealer you should be getting with Theta and saying "What the heck is going on, we need some public assurance re continuation of Theta's policies, warranties, product line, etc." Mark, as a lawyer, if you make assumptions, then you are a very poor one (Mark is a retired government lawyer).

Yea I've loved my Theta gear. I don't begrude Neil for seeing "The Times They Are a Changin" and selling out to have a more guarnenteed retirement nest egg and to likely go back within a few years to his first love, stereo with a new company. But anyone lookin' to buy a new Theta product at anywhere close to retail should have their head examined until Theta comes clean with some clear unambiguos assurances. Rumors that Theta renewed the lease on the building, etc. are just that - rumors, they don't mean anything.

And remember, this is from a Theta LUVER!!!@@

Steve Bruzonsky

11-10-07, 08:39 AM

Not really. Most of the audiophiles I know have solid state two channel pre-amps.

The Bland is not an audiophile. He is a bragger, a pretender - bigger is better, more $$ is better, latest technology is better. But he doesn't know how to use his ear-brain to listen and discern sonic differences. Its all about the latest-greatest to him. And you wonder why after twenty years Neil decided to sell Theta? He had enough of The Blands. HA!

I know plenty of audiophiles with solid state amps - and plenty with tubes.
The Bland equating audiophilia with tubes once again shows his complete ignorance on all things sonic.

thebland

11-10-07, 09:17 AM

Steve Bruzonsky

11-10-07, 09:27 AM

As far as bragging and latest and greatest. HDMI has been around on processors / receivers for 2-3 years now. IT is the only way to get lossless sound and apply your processors post processing. THere is nothing bragging or mine is better about that. It is simply a fact. Most here on the high end aspire to have a theater that makes the best use of lossless audio will have it with HDMI. Obviously, your system is a music system that doubles as a movie room..so our preferences are not alike. I have simply kept up with the audio changes / video changes in HT.

If you weren't just a little tad baby when CD first came out, you would have raved that it just killed all that came before. But that was before pioneers like Neil Sinclair improved that digital perfect sound forever so that it sounded better. HDMI is in its infancy and we are just beginning to learn how good it is now and how good it can indeed become. It will take time. To merely assume new technology sounds better without demoing and listening is stupid.
But for you thats par for the course.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-10-07, 09:28 AM

Tubes are my preference for audio (2 channel). Nothing more. And a pair of Maggies as well would round things out for me in a lightly treated room.

As far as bragging and latest and greatest. HDMI has been around on processors / receivers for 2-3 years now. IT is the only way to get lossless sound and apply your processors post processing. THere is nothing bragging or mine is better about that. It is simply a fact. Most here on the high end aspire to have a theater that makes the best use of lossless audio will have it with HDMI. Obviously, your system is a music system that doubles as a movie room..so our preferences are not alike. I have simply kept up with the audio changes / video changes in HT.

Neil sold Theta after dealing with the Bruzonsky's of the world, I never bought anything from them. Perhaps if I had, and he hired my wife for consulting, his company would have been in better shape......;)

You made an unsolicited offer to Neil, that Theta would give you a free CB3, and in return Theta would accept some gratuitous PR services/advise from your wife. You even freely admit. And Theta didn't accept your offer and you haven't stopped bashing them since. Now Theta is sold, we don't know if its only an assets sale yet and if Theta is effectively "dead", and you continue to bash Theta into the ground.

Jeff, the above proves that you have NO INTEGRITY. And that's not funny.

thebland

11-10-07, 09:33 AM

Steve Bruzonsky

11-10-07, 10:14 AM

Steve, calm down...You are taking this way too personally. So, they are sold...So what?! Were you a backer? You bash Halcro to know end, but it doesn't bother me at all. I mean, we are talking about toys here (albeit expensive ones):D

I'm not bashing them at all. I simply am repeating what many here have said over the years..Nice products but delayed in keeping abreast with technology. It is likely a significant reason for their demise.

Cheer up! Your system's ideal sound has not changed a bit since this news.

I've never once bashed or said anything negative re Halcro. I've said they have a great product for the price and should be seriously considered by someone buying a new audiophile surround processor. But you always bash Theta even now that the Theta we knew may or may not still be around.

mark haflich

11-10-07, 10:20 AM

Steve. Neil makes no secret of where he lives. An owner does not have to be present a great deal of the time if the right persons are put in place to run a company. Oh my God, Theta is **** because Neil is only there one or two weeks a month. Please. Most Theta buyers don't even know who Neal is or even care. So Neal sold. So what? Dave is still there doing much of the design etc.

It would be truly stupid for dealers to call Theta about the sale and ask them about their future plans. The answer in all such situations is business as usual. Changes will happen, usually quite incrementally.

You assked for me to post seriously, I did post, and you lecture me about posting some non secret and then criticize my post as being crock. You don't want to hear the probable truth becuse you can't handle the truth. It was cash out time instead of waiting for a lower return later. How often do you see a company turn around for the positive after an acquisition? Maybe a cash infusion is all that was needed to get some new products to market. It could happen.

But who knows? The economy is in bad shape. There are a lot of influencing factors out there and the high end is clearly in decline. I'd sell.

In the future I will limit my posts in your thread to nonsense. You post but really don't want or can't accept any opinions different from what you have.

Tell us all exactly. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD. A sale of a company is news. Things wil change somewhat in the future because of it. Speculation, babble, babble, babble. people fighting with each other and getting angry. You must love it. I think you thrive on this stuff. I love you but . . . .

Steve Bruzonsky

11-10-07, 10:54 AM

Steve. Neil makes no secret of where he lives. An owner does not have to be present a great deal of the time if the right persons are put in place to run a company. Oh my God, Theta is **** because Neil is only there one or two weeks a month. Please. Most Theta buyers don't even know who Neal is or even care. So Neal sold. So what? Dave is still there doing much of the design etc.

Mark, just cause Neil tells you as a dealer and friend that he lives somewhere doesn't mean he necessarily wants you to BLAB it to the whole world. :D

Yea Neil told me last week Dave is staying with Theta. I agree that is a biggie. But we don't know the rest of the details. We don't know how long Dave is staying. We don't know if the sale was a purchase of the assets and liability or just the assets. We don't know yet if warranties are being honored.
We don't know yet if the CB3 will be upgraded or a trade in allowance to a new model with HDMI. Too many unanswered questions at this point. If a stock or mutual fund had this many questions hanging over it no fund managers would buy it. And ATI could have given assurances simply by giving Neil permission to disclose answers to these questions when he talked to me or others or by press release. But nada as of yet. Legit questions which need to be resolved. Although I luv my Theta gear, I can't in good conscience recommend paying anywhere near retail for new Theta gear until these questions get resolved. Doesn't change the fact that I luv my Theta gear and plan to use it for years ahead.

mark haflich

11-10-07, 11:43 AM

So just send them to them to those who will sell it at close to cost. All problems solved. Or maybe those people want to protect their investment too?

mark haflich

11-10-07, 11:50 AM

In any sale, some people turn over. Personalities at the top change and people who had a close relation to the old can become unhappy with the new. You just can't make any sure thing predictions.

I am would guess from knowing Neal that his sale would be based on at least some provisions to provide for employee continuity and fairness to them, such as no immediate discharges, yada, yada. I would guess that customer protection would also be included. If the new Theta were to abandon the old, the brand would become worthless. Simply because Theta dealers would have many upset older customers and simply would no longer want to give the new Theta the time of day.

LJG

11-10-07, 11:51 AM

This Thread really serves no purpose anymore it should be closed until we have some official word from iether Theta or the New owners

Steve Bruzonsky

11-12-07, 05:55 PM

I just talked with Neil. He has to be careful what he says because of course the new Theta owners have to issue policy statements. However, Neil confirmed that Theta signed a new lease on its existing facility - I don't know how long. (ATI is about 40 miles away and could have moved Theta nearby, thus this at least suggests continuinig independence of Theta as a company.) Neil's understanding is that the new Theta will honor all existing warranties, but again, the prudent lawyer in me wants to see this from the new Theta. Neil also mentioned that David Reich not only stayed on with Theta, but is an Executive with the new Theta.

Back in the old days, news traveled "horse and buggy". Took months for folks to read in magazines that a company was sold, and by then the company would have time to reassure existing customers, new ones, etc as appropriate. Now we have instantaneous communication and it just ain't that fast. News that a company sold is out there before the ink on the sale papers is even dry.

There are some good signs, and some concerns, and we will simply wait unti ATI/The new Theta makes its pronouncements!!!

Michael Osadciw

11-14-07, 05:39 PM

I've got an opportunity to purchase a used Dreadnaught at a reasonable price...now not so sure if I should...or should I?

mark haflich

11-14-07, 08:13 PM

Of course you should. Theta isn't going away. The company that purchased them is strong and builds for a variety of other high end companies as well. If they don't honor warranties and provide service to old Theta customers, they can kiss their investment could buy. Even Steve couldn't shill the product enough to save it under such a circumstance.

The amp is close to bullet proof anyway.

Mozvz

11-14-07, 08:40 PM

I would not hesitate purchasing a Theta amp. A processor would be a wait and see situation for me.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-14-07, 09:10 PM

I would not hesitate purchasing a Theta amp. A processor would be a wait and see situation for me.

I agree. The processor depends if you want the latest bell and whistle, HDMI multi-channel audio, and that's still up in the air until we hear from the new Theta.

Re the Dreadnaught, there is a 2 version you know. Is that the one???

badbenzz

11-15-07, 02:53 AM

Mozvz

11-15-07, 10:35 AM

Based on my discussion with ATI directly they did in fact ink a lease on the Theta property as they did not want to change the location or the people. That is all I can say except I may be a Theta owner again sooner rather than later.

Sounds like the ducks are starting to line up with Theta/ATI or is it ATI/Theta? :) I am really glad to hear this. My next upgrade could go this route in the next year.

mark haflich

11-15-07, 03:29 PM

I called ATI today after receiving a letter to THeta dealers and a press release. The ATI people said nothing has changed at Theta except for the ownership and an infusion of capital and other resources. Warranties would of course be honoured and new products were being developed and would be forthcoming. I didn't even have to say I was a friend of Steve B's to get this information.

DOMAIN64

11-15-07, 04:02 PM

mark haflich

11-15-07, 04:20 PM

Not my place to post it. I think I can be trusted as to info I report. The material made no mention of warantees. That's why I called. The letter mentioned the key people who were staying on and all the key people are staying. The letter is to dealers and the essence was business as usual, no changes other than who owned the company. ATI is a good company and they almost should be considered a non equity partner of many high end electronics companies. I was at an open house of a high end company in Boulder during CEDIA and the President of ATI was there proudly showing us ATI's role in product development, engineering, and production. ATI had no ownership in that company. THE ATI purchase of Theta will indeed make Theta better. That's my take.

Bulldogger

11-15-07, 05:55 PM

THE ATI purchase of Theta will indeed make Theta better. That's my take.

I called as well. I liked what I heard. What I expected was a lot of "talking around the issues," with vague statements about the future of the company. What I got was reassurance that Theta would operate largely the same and new product developement would continue.

ken6217

11-15-07, 07:36 PM

I called as well. I liked what I heard. What I expected was a lot of "talking around the issues," with vague statements about the future of the company. What I got was reassurance that Theta would operate largely the same and new product developement would continue.

Have no idea if this may or may not happen, but did you think they would tell you anything else? Think about the converse of your statement. Can you imagine them saying that?
Ken

badbenzz

11-15-07, 08:24 PM

Bulldogger

11-15-07, 09:11 PM

Have no idea if this may or may not happen, but did you think they would tell you anything else? Think about the converse of your statement. Can you imagine them saying that?
Ken

Well as you know from your experience with Proceed, you have to be willing to be able to take risk to play at the home theater game especially the high-end. When Cal audio went down, I had 17K of electronics that seriously depreciated. I am not an optimist mainly because of that experience. This time, I think things look differently. After owning Proceed, and Aragon as well, I am getting a feel for what question to ask and what to look for.

Bulldogger

11-15-07, 09:12 PM

I have had relationship with ATI from the start as I purchased one of their first amps. These guys are the real deal (they care about the industry) and will continue the Theta standards. No doubt in my mind I will be a Theta owner again.

Ohhhhhh, so my Theta isn't a boat anchor anymore like you said when I asked you why you switched to the Halcro:p :).

ken6217

11-15-07, 09:58 PM

Well as you know from your experience with Proceed, you have to be willing to be able to take risk to play at the home theater game especially the high-end. When Cal audio went down, I had 17K of electronics that seriously depreciated. I am not an optimist mainly because of that experience. This time, I think things look differently. After owning Proceed, and Aragon as well, I am getting a feel for what question to ask and what to look for.

I wouldn't let this news deter me from buying a Theta unit if I wanted one. No one ever knows what will happen with any product, technology, or company anyway. If I didn't audition the Meridian 861 in my home and like it, I would have gone right to the CB3. By the way, I love the 861. It wasn't a difficult decision over the Proceed after hearing it. It blew it away. I was very surprised.
Ken

Bulldogger

11-15-07, 10:04 PM

I It wasn't a difficult decision over the Proceed after hearing it. It blew it away. I was very surprised.
Ken
Told ya. Theta would have done that too. It you were into audio, I'd tell you to hear the Six Shooter. It will top the Meridian for music with a good CD player. But for only home theater, I actully think the Meridian could have the edge for home theater though I have never heard them side by side in the same system. Compared the Sis Shooter in the same system but ran out of time to shoot out CB3 vs 861.

GrosseFatigue II

11-15-07, 10:24 PM

The way I see it this is good news for.. Meridian

Mark Levinson sealed its fate after failing to build in time a high end surround sound processor who could compete with Meridian. Krell surround sound processor is good looking but not as good sounding as Meridian. Lexicon... Only a gogo would buy a Halcro.. The only brands that intrigue me are Classe (although I don't like a name that doesn't sound good in french) and Bel Canto.

mjaudio

11-15-07, 10:51 PM

No doubt in my mind I will be a Theta owner again.

You will be upgrading again!!!

You never upgrade........oh wait......you have a bad case of upgraditus and I am sure you will drag me into your sickness once again.

Damn you!!!!!!!!!:D

badbenzz

11-15-07, 11:33 PM

Ohhhhhh, so my Theta isn't a boat anchor anymore like you said when I asked you why you switched to the Halcro:p :).

At the time it was a boat anchor to me as they had no fix for my problem (had to reboot everytime it went from an analog to digital signal)and probably still have no fix for the problem with my CBIII

badbenzz

11-15-07, 11:40 PM

You will be upgrading again!!!

You never upgrade........oh wait......you have a bad case of upgraditus and I am sure you will drag me into your sickness once again.

Damn you!!!!!!!!!:D

You know what they say: "the blind leading the blind" but in your case the deaf!!!!:D

Steve Bruzonsky

11-16-07, 01:12 AM

At the time it was a boat anchor to me as they had no fix for my problem (had to reboot everytime it went from an analog to digital signal)and probably still have no fix for the problem with my CBIII

Shouldn't be a problem now if you contact Theta tech, as new operating software and/or new card will solve problem. I beta tested them so I know.

bigbrother52

11-16-07, 02:05 AM

I recieved the new version software a couple of months ago and was told at the time to "keep it under my hat" for some reason.

Last time I looked it still wasn't listed on the website as a new software ver. but it fixed my problem of locking up audio once it found a DD TV station.

You now have the option to change the clock mode from normal to wide.

Funny thing is, it works perficly in "normal" and I havn't had any real reason to go to "wide". Still, it works and I'm a happy camper.

More importantly it works if anybody else here is gonna change a TV station without people hollerin at me "this expensive peice of garbage has no sound and all I did was change the chanel!"

It was sent attached to an e-mail so it shouldn't be very hard to come by.

Get it and if you've had a problem with lock-ups and such...you're cool from here on out.

bigbro

badbenzz

11-16-07, 02:29 AM

Now they find a fix for the problem, a little late for me, I'll wait for the CB IV

bigbrother52

11-16-07, 02:36 AM

Now they find a fix for the problem, a little late for me, I'll wait for the CB IV

According to my source at Theta, should I saw old source (he left awhile ago),
he told me that they'd never do a CBIV as that number in Asian countries is like 13 in the US and considered to be unlucky!

bigbro

euryd

11-16-07, 04:07 AM

According to my source at Theta, should I saw old source (he left awhile ago),
he told me that they'd never do a CBIV as that number in Asian countries is like 13 in the US and considered to be unlucky!

bigbro

Oh my, that must make life tough. I guess they would also not buy computers with a quad core processor or drive autos with 4 wheels. :D

Bulldogger

11-16-07, 12:35 PM

Now they find a fix for the problem, a little late for me, I'll wait for the CB IV

Yup, fixed mine too.

Bulldogger

11-16-07, 12:38 PM

The way I see it this is good news for.. Meridian

Meridian is a great company. I'm not sure how far out there solution for HDMI 1.3b and on board processing of DD True HD is but I don't think it's going to be very soon. It could be a year away too?

Bulldogger

11-16-07, 12:43 PM

According to my source at Theta, should I saw old source (he left awhile ago),
he told me that they'd never do a CBIV as that number in Asian countries is like 13 in the US and considered to be unlucky!

bigbro

They can change the name as long as my Superior II cards will fit some of the channels I plan to use. I want the Xtremes for my front channels now. It would be nice if the newer 24/96 cards worked in the new model. Would save me some cash. I can deal with buying an entire new chassis because of design limitations of the old one but would hope to use my dacs.

BenBB

11-16-07, 01:31 PM

Bulldog sez: I called as well. I liked what I heard. What I expected was a lot of "talking around the issues," with vague statements about the future of the company. What I got was reassurance that Theta would operate largely the same and new product developement would continue.

I hope you guys are right. I just upgraded to a CBIII from a CASA NOVA, no less. Got a good trade in from Theta, tho. And the improved sound alone was worth the bucks. :)

jjwinterberg

11-16-07, 01:36 PM

They can change the name as long as my Superior II cards will fit some of the channels I plan to use. I want the Xtremes for my front channels now. It would be nice if the newer 24/96 cards worked in the new model. Would save me some cash. I can deal with buying an entire new chassis because of design limitations of the old one but would hope to use my dacs.

I couldn't agree more. If my investment in Extreme DACs cannot be used in the next gen. CB, I don't know if I could stay with the company; this would be a major breach of trust with this customer.

If the DACs are useable and they provide some trade-in/upgrade allowance, well now we're talkin. Although, I for one am not convinced that there should be so much breakage of the CB III architecture. Some of you may recall Neil Sinclar's dissertation on the issues regarding adding the HDMI inputs that is on the Theta website:

"It will require a new process card, but that is not a huge expense. The costly parts of the unit; the chassis, the mother board and power supplies will not need replacement. Currently, we know that the Extreme DAC and Superior II DAC cards will work with these new formats. We are investigating whether the other DAC options will work, or will need modification or replacement."

So I for one remain hopeful that the design team will heed another of Neil's website quotes:

"Uploading new software and updates is quicker and simpler, making Casablanca easier to upgrade and reconfigure than ever – contributing to Casablanca’s fundamental design goal of non-obsolescence."

I believe that the upgrade to either the CB II or the CB III involved a new motherboard. So I would think that the next upgrade could similarly involve a new HDMI interface card, a new processing card and a new motherboard. Even paying for these components would still be a big cost savings for Theta's customers.

John

Steve Bruzonsky

11-16-07, 01:48 PM

I couldn't agree more. If my investment in Extreme DACs cannot be used in the next gen. CB, I don't know if I could stay with the company; this would be a major breach of trust with this customer.

If the DACs are useable and they provide some trade-in/upgrade allowance, well now we're talkin. Although, I for one am not convinced that there should be so much breakage of the CB III architecture. Some of you may recall Neil Sinclar's dissertation on the issues regarding adding the HDMI inputs that is on the Theta website:

"It will require a new process card, but that is not a huge expense. The costly parts of the unit; the chassis, the mother board and power supplies will not need replacement. Currently, we know that the Extreme DAC and Superior II DAC cards will work with these new formats. We are investigating whether the other DAC options will work, or will need modification or replacement."

So I for one remain hopeful that the design team will heed another of Neil's website quotes:

"Uploading new software and updates is quicker and simpler, making Casablanca easier to upgrade and reconfigure than ever – contributing to Casablanca’s fundamental design goal of non-obsolescence."

I believe that the upgrade to either the CB II or the CB III involved a new motherboard. So I would think that the next upgrade could similarly involve a new HDMI interface card, a new processing card and a new motherboard. Even paying for these components would still be a big cost savings for Theta's customers.

John

John, what you say makes sense and is consistent with my knowledge as well.

But we still need to see what happens when the fat lady finally sings on this.

But Theta has a lotta CB3 owners and not to provide some upgrade or trade-in path would in my opinion work a serious disadvantage to the company.
My gut is that the Extreme and Superior 2 DACs, maybe even the new Premium ones, will work fine with the new HDMI and won't have to be redeveloped, and of course this would bode well for us Theta luvers re
any offer Theta designs to make for upgrade or trade-in to the new model.
But this is wait and see for now.

ken6217

11-16-07, 02:36 PM

Meridian is a great company. I'm not sure how far out there solution for HDMI 1.3b and on board processing of DD True HD is but I don't think it's going to be very soon. It could be a year away too?

Meridian is taking care of HDMI in their Version 5 which is supposed to be out by the end of the year.
Ken

DOMAIN64

11-16-07, 08:28 PM

jstrossner

11-16-07, 09:40 PM

I recieved the new version software a couple of months ago and was told at the time to "keep it under my hat" for some reason.

It was sent attached to an e-mail so it shouldn't be very hard to come by.

Get it and if you've had a problem with lock-ups and such...you're cool from here on out.

bigbro

Thanks for the info. I called Carl @ Theta today and had him send v316 via email. Installed it and lock-ups are a thing of the past!

Jeff

Steve Bruzonsky

11-16-07, 11:59 PM

Ati Acquires Theta Digital

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ATI ACQUIRES THETA DIGITAL

Los Angeles, November 9, 2007—The widely acclaimed audio component manufacturer, Amplifier Technologies, Incorporated [ATI], has acquired Theta Digital of Agoura Hills, CA. Theta Digital is one of the most prestigious names in high-end audio and home theater.

This acquisition will position ATI to provide products that define the utmost audio/video experience. Long known for its innovative styling and dedication to sonic purity, Theta Digital’s legacy of unswerving devotion to quality and detail will be further enhanced by ATI’s legendary reputation.

“We have long admired Theta for its stature in the industry and we look forward to providing Theta with ATI’s extensive resources. Our goal is to strengthen Theta’s continuing commitment to providing state-of-the-art products,” stated Morris Kessler, ATI’s president.

Theta Digital designs and manufactures an award-winning array of products including the Casablanca Music and Cinema Controller, and the flagship Dreadnaught power amplifier. These components have appeared in many upscale home theater installations as well as in the reference systems of audio industry reviewers. Theta’s tagline, “Digital and Analog Done Right” personifies the company’s mission.

“Theta’s acquisition by ATI provides us with enhanced engineering and financial strength that will enable Theta to develop new, innovative products. Theta is committed to the high-end market which we have helped define for the last 20 years,” said Dave Reich, Theta’s General Manager.

TPigeon2006

11-17-07, 03:20 AM

One thing for sure is time will tell...

sac8d4

11-18-07, 12:16 PM

Michael Osadciw

11-18-07, 12:19 PM

opted not to purchase the amp (original Dreadnaught). Not because of the Theta situation, but mainly because my first priority is to get a 1080p projector up and going. I already have power amplifiers so the Theta is more of a sweet upgrade at the moment rather than a necessity. What's even more important is a preamp/pro upgrade...one I've been waiting to do a long time...and Theta still is my choice...just rather wait for the HDMI solution even if I have to wait another year. I can handle a 6-channel in signal from my BD player in the meantime...my gut feeling tells me that nothing wrong will happen with this merger and it will be business as usual...and who knows, it might actually improve the company's products.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-18-07, 12:23 PM

Just my 2 cents...
The one thing i hope that isnt changed in this merger is theta's build quality, support and upgradeability. Very few companies are able to offer this business model, this is what sets THETA apart from many other companies.

Absolutely. Theta lneeds to listens to us and continue an upgrade or trade-in path for existing CB owners. However, being realistic, I anticipate the upgrade cost this time around may be quite a bit more substantial than the last few times. HDMI multi-channel audio apparently requires quite a bit of reworking of the internals of the CB3 to accomodate.

jjwinterberg

11-18-07, 03:40 PM

Absolutely. Theta lneeds to listens to us and continue an upgrade or trade-in path for existing CB owners. However, being realistic, I anticipate the upgrade cost this time around may be quite a bit more substantial than the last few times. HDMI multi-channel audio apparently requires quite a bit of reworking of the internals of the CB3 to accomodate.

Maybe, but I don't see it.

As for making a marketing statement, wouldn't ATI want to demonstrate to the community and more specifically to its newly acquired customer base that the policies and philosophies that made Theta what it is today will be continued? If the press release that you quoted is to be believed, and I don't see why it shouldn't be, then ATI should look to manage Theta with a fairly gentle hand.

As I said before the Casablanca architecture should be fairly adaptable to the HDMI audio interface (at least the bitstream I/F, I guess I'm not so sure about the uncompressed audio). We owners of CB IIIs should do what we can to let Theta know that we expect an upgrade path not too dissimilar to what we have seen in the past.

For now I remain cautiously optimistic

John

Nick Satullo

11-18-07, 03:54 PM

Just my 2 cents...
The things i hope that aren't changed in this merger is theta's build quality, support and upgradeability. Very few companies are able to offer this business model, this is what sets THETA apart from many other companies.

Theta has had a probably-deserved reputation in audio for some years. Having said that, let's look back at Theta's condition before the ATI announcement. The CBIII (or I or II for that matter) has, for at least a few years, been a badly outmoded product. Regardless of the two or three people that have raved about its 6-shooter, the fact is that was an add-on for 6 channel analog audio, and it was delivered at a point in time when 6 channel analog audio had failed miserably in its promise for a new high-rez format--that's true of both SACD or DVD-Audio. Everyone else had 6 channel analog capability for at least five years.

The reality is that the CBIII has to be discarded, and a completely new platform developed--one with HDMI capability, one with component video switching (although I think you can get that now with some type of add-on card . . . maybe not). If it doesn't get discarded, then it's simply not going to be relevant in its current fashion. And that includes its current form with some add-on box like the 6 shooter or something of that ilk.

The best news for Theta owners is that there is now a possibility--what actually happens remains to be seen--that Theta might be involved with a company that has sufficient capitalization to allow it to go back to the drawing board. Hopefully, they can take what was good from their former platform, and incorporate it into something that brings them to the 21st century.

Nick :cool:

Steve Bruzonsky

11-18-07, 04:55 PM

Nick, the CB3, along with processors from many high end companies, suddently became arguably obsolete in the new HDMI age, requiring substantial internal reworkings to accomodate HDMI multi-channel high resolution audio via bitstream from the new HD DVD and Blue Ray players.

Among high end surround processors, only Halcro, Lexicon and Anthem have
HDMI multi-channel high resolution audio via bitstream - and only Halcro is HDMI 2.3, isn't that right?

Among custom installers, find me one that even cares yet about this HDMI upgrade and who uses HDMI as opposed to more conventional connections, given HDMI's turmoil and unreliability, as generally folks don't like the inconveniences that we early adopters are willing to put up with.

Yet I agree the future is HDMI and for Theta to remain competitive that's where they need to go.

By the way, will the Lex be easily upgradeable to the latest HDMI 1.3+ version or will some more significant work need to be done internally to accomodate this?

And Nick, As you live in Ohio where its startin' to get cold, please, why don't you take a vacation to sunny Az, bring your Lex over for a weekend and lets have some fun. We'll invite over a few folks, do some demoing of the Theta CB3 with Six Shooter, then the Lex using HDMI. I'd luv to do it and to compare. Technologically, your Lex has the HDMI bitstream and may well sound better - but my old analog Six Shooter sounds awfully nice and you might be surprised!!!

Bulldogger

11-18-07, 06:32 PM

Absolutely However, being realistic, I anticipate the upgrade cost this time around may be quite a bit more substantial than the last few times. HDMI multi-channel audio apparently requires quite a bit of reworking of the internals of the CB3 to accomodate.

Also the cost of the HDMI licensing fees. I think Greg Rogers of Widescreen Review said it would cost him 20K just to get the license for a Color management system he has.

Bulldogger

11-18-07, 06:45 PM

The best news for Theta owners is that there is now a possibility--what actually happens remains to be seen--that Theta might be involved with a company that has sufficient capitalization to allow it to go back to the drawing board. Hopefully, they can take what was good from their former platform, and incorporate it into something that brings them to the 21st century.
:

Let's hope they continue the excellence of sound quality and don't sell out for being first with features and worst with sound quality like Lexicon. The good rumor that I have been told is that the new processor that is a replacement for the MC12HD will sound significantly better. Bout time.

DOMAIN64

11-18-07, 06:49 PM

Bulldogger

11-18-07, 07:05 PM

The Theta would be wise to look at a new design that is internet friendly and has a digital hard drive and/or media server aspect. CDs and DVDs will be phased out as more buyers look for ease in buying and storing and sharing digital content.
You left out HD-radio and XM-radio too and a video screen, flip up so you could watch the game. Time for me to switch brands when they go "Best Buy."

DefinerOfReality

11-18-07, 07:29 PM

The reality is that the CBIII has to be discarded, and a completely new platform developed--one with HDMI capability, one with component video switching (although I think you can get that now with some type of add-on card . . . maybe not). If it doesn't get discarded, then it's simply not going to be relevant in its current fashion. And that includes its current form with some add-on box like the 6 shooter or something of that ilk.

The best news for Theta owners is that there is now a possibility--what actually happens remains to be seen--that Theta might be involved with a company that has sufficient capitalization to allow it to go back to the drawing board. Hopefully, they can take what was good from their former platform, and incorporate it into something that brings them to the 21st century.

Nick :cool:

The more I think of it Nick you are probably right. By the time the upgrade is technologically sound the CB3 will be long in tooth.

Theta would be wise to look at a new design that is internet friendly and has a digital hard drive and/or media server aspect. CDs and DVDs will be phased out as more buyers look for ease in buying and storing and sharing digital content.

I totally agree. Theta should begin the long process of making a true - up to date - state of the art - Surround Sound processor for the twenty-first century. This design is 7 years old - last century, departed!

Now I love my Casablanca IIIc (The "c" is for custom - which in this case affords me a true 8.8 digital output to my 13 Generation VIIIb (second mod - before this newest one comes out (when is that going to be PF???) and it does a great job with sound quality and 3-dimensional space recovery.

But it's an outdated design that is prone to various failings, eccentricities, and lack of upgradability - which was always a Theta hall mark. Oh well, times change.

So I salute ATI, and pray for a truly cutting edge surround processor operating at least beyond 16x or higher oversampling.

And Mono D/A converters and a bullet proof operating system - for those who want more articulation through the use of more channels of information.

Here's to 12.12, just to start in (after my 8.8 design)!

Cheers -

Jeremy

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

Steve Bruzonsky

11-18-07, 07:52 PM

The CB3 has had an optional component video switching card for some years now, so that's not an issue.

GrosseFatigue II

11-18-07, 11:13 PM

I totally agree. Theta should begin the long process of making a true - up to date - state of the art - Surround Sound processor for the twenty-first century. This design is 7 years old - last century, departed!..

But it's an outdated design that is prone to various failings, eccentricities, and lack of upgradability - which was always a Theta hall mark. Oh well, times change...

www.Kipnis-Studios.com

This is what I always thought about the Casablanca and there is already a state of the art surround sound processor: the Meridian. If history repeats itself Theta will now sink to oblivion.

Steve Bruzonsky

11-18-07, 11:42 PM

This is what I always thought about the Casablanca and there is already a state of the art surround sound processor: the Meridian. If history repeats itself Theta will now sink to oblivion.

Gross, are you telling us that the Meridian 861, an outstanding surround processor, is now announced to have HDMI multi-channel audio uprade soon and if so, at what cost, in what time frame?

MIkeDuke

11-19-07, 11:58 AM

Another press release dated yesterday.
http://www.stereophile.com/news/111907theta/

ken6217

11-19-07, 12:41 PM

Gross, are you telling us that the Meridian 861, an outstanding surround processor, is now announced to have HDMI multi-channel audio uprade soon and if so, at what cost, in what time frame?

It is supposed to be available by this Spring. I am not sure of the cost. It will be brought out with other upgrades that they are doing to the 861. This is what Meridian told me.
Ken

Steve Bruzonsky

11-19-07, 12:57 PM

It is supposed to be available by this Spring. I am not sure of the cost. It will be brought out with other upgrades that they are doing to the 861. This is what Meridian told me.
Ken

Cool. But does this clearly include multi-channel PCM via bitstream from the HD DVD or Blue Ray player? Do you know if they are able to upgrade the 861 chassis vs pretty much have to replace it and start more anew??

ken6217

11-19-07, 01:15 PM

Steve,
I am not certain. If not though, what would be the reason to upgrade the HDMI it already has? I do know that this upgrade and a few others is in the $5K ballpark. The chasis doesn't have to be replaced.

As a side note, I am borrowing a Meridian G98 (800 is out of my league after the 861). It has three S/PDIF coax outputs designated as: L/R, L/R Surround, and C/LFE. It says in the manual that the G98 provides six channels of analogue output. These feature true 24-bit DAC's that operate at 192khz for maximum audio quality. This works for DVD-A and standard DVD disks. meridian said that rsolution is amazing. I will see (I mean hear).
Ken

Steve Bruzonsky

11-19-07, 02:26 PM

jjwinterberg

11-19-07, 04:46 PM

You know I must be the only one reading this forum who doesn't think the CBIII is outdated. Theta even calls the Casablanca a "Music and Cinema Controller" and I guess that's what I want mine to do. The heart of the CB is its DACs and Theta has packaged some really outstanding DACs into a form factor that allows for 12 channels. My Extreme DACs sound better than my Gen Va and perform fantastically on critical 2 channel stereo. To feed the DACs Theta uses a Motorola DSP based processing engine which should be able to be upgraded to process the new high resolution formats. The other element necessary for the processor is an input and selector. Again I guess I'm the only one who thinks that there shouldn't be any reason that a HDMI input card would break the Casablanca architecture. There will need to be a change to the CB motherboard in order to connect the video card to the processing card. There will obviously need to be a new video card. And there will likely be a new processing card; in order to connect to the video card's HDMI output. But even with these changes there will still be a large amount of reuse; the chassis, power supplies, S/PDIF input card, analog input card, and the DACs. This upgrade will be similar to the upgrade from the original CB to the CBII when Theta increased the channel capacity from 9 to 12.

I applaud Theta for their attention to detail; the way they shield and ground the CB. I've never had a hum or noise problem with my CBs and I bought my first one 10 years ago. Should Theta add features? I guess there are some who want internet streaming capability or a front panel display but for me I would rather have a more sonically rich but feature poor processor.