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The standard for TV (NTSC, PAL, HD) is D65, whether the programming is color or B&W.

Greetings

Somewhere around the equal energy point E ... .333, .333. This is optimal for B/W material. A chance to more closely replicate the look of B/W in the theater.

Regards

Greetings

You need a color analyzer to calibrate the grayscale to this equal energy point. Shoot for x .333, y .333 and you are there. Approximates 5480k range.

The bulb in most theater projectors output at about 5400 range ... and since we no longer have to concern ourselves with color gamuts of film versus video ... both can do B/W just fine.

On some TVs ... multiple grayscale memories exist so a second setting of this B/W mode is possible.

Regards

It's likely blue due to the high temperature of your grey scale. The grey scale needs to be calibrated. It's actually not a "warmer" setting you are setting it to. I suspect they call it warmer on the TV setting due to the fact they are relating sensible heat to color temperature when in fact it is opposite. The reason why blue is a higher temperature is due to the higher energy of the wavelength. Ultraviolet spectrum has higher energy than infra-red. Thus, the color temperature is not the same thing as sensible heat which we are used to by convention of red for warm and blue for cold. So, they are boosting the red ouput on your set with the "warm" setting which is taming your high color temperature of blue.

My tv is a CRT HDTV direct view, perfectly calibrated to D65K. I think it's because of the problem Michael says, B&W is closer to 5400K than 6500K like HDTV....



Yep, he is right. But again, the display is too warm when showing B&W's. If you can, maybe calibrate a seperate input to 5400K to watch B&W. Sounds like the only option.

b&w ebu film is 5400 or 5600.

b&w ebu film is 5400 or 5600.

Well no the B/W film is not balanced for any particular colour temp. The lamp in a film projector is around 5400K that's what gives it the particular "balance". I personally have zero problem watching B/W at D.65.

Greetings

You need a color analyzer to calibrate the grayscale to this equal energy point. Shoot for x .333, y .333 and you are there. Approximates 5480k range.

The bulb in most theater projectors output at about 5400 range ... and since we no longer have to concern ourselves with color gamuts of film versus video ... both can do B/W just fine.

On some TVs ... multiple grayscale memories exist so a second setting of this B/W mode is possible.

Regards

Hi Michael,

I have done this with my display and like the effect it gives old B/W movies but I've never seen a clear explanation of whether this is technically correct. Even though the original film is shot and balanced for 5400-5600K doesn't it get rebalanced in the telecine process on the assumption it will be displayed at D65? In this case won't D65 grayscale give an image closer to the original and E illumination would generate something too warm?

Hi Michael,

I have done this with my display and like the effect it gives old B/W movies but I've never seen a clear explanation of whether this is technically correct. Even though the original film is shot and balanced for 5400-5600K doesn't it get rebalanced in the telecine process on the assumption it will be displayed at D65? In this case won't D65 grayscale give an image closer to the original and E illumination would generate something too warm?

You'd think so and that would simplify things somewhat . However I often find BW films with no colour information at all ( dropping colour to zero produces no change ). A rebalance at the telecine would have to contain some colour information to essentially take D.65 to D.54.

I've yet to find a BW film that does this ( some have colour information but more often than not it turns out to be ...junk and totally the wrong bias to correct to D.54).

I'd like to think that films whioch contain B/W and colour portions are maybe balanced to be consistent to D.65 all the way through .....I doubt it though.

Personally I'm fine with BW at D.65 and I sit at a D.54 calibrated work station all day....

Would seem straightforward for a B&W collector to settle the debate - are they all mastered as B&W only no color - or are the recoloured for D65 adding some yellow?

Someone tweak the color control on their collection! If the B&W does not change - then there is no color correction!

You'd think so and that would simplify things somewhat . However I often find BW films with no colour information at all ( dropping colour to zero produces no change ). A rebalance at the telecine would have to contain some colour information to essentially take D.65 to D.54.


I don't know what you mean by colour information, we want to change from one illuminant to another, and we know the spectral power distribution for each, so we can calculate what is neutral gray under E illuminant and transform it to be neutral under D65, no?

I don't know what you mean by colour information, we want to change from one illuminant to another, and we know the spectral power distribution for each, so we can calculate what is neutral gray under E illuminant and transform it to be neutral under D65, no?


yes but you need to encode that colour difference somewhere and that means the material will change colour if you drop the colour control. It needs colour information to perform the rebalance otherwise you are just encoding naked luma.

yes but you need to encode that colour difference somewhere and that means the material will change colour if you drop the colour control. It needs colour information to perform the rebalance otherwise you are just encoding naked luma.

:duh: Thanks, it just hit me.:)

Okay, I have a different, but somewhat related, question.

Should I use my TV's monochrome setting for B&W? What the hell is that setting for anyway?

Okay, I have a different, but somewhat related, question.

Should I use my TV's monochrome setting for B&W? What the hell is that setting for anyway?


Is it a fairly old display?

Some displays had the option of turning off the chroma for B/W viewing . I think the idea behind this was to remove chroma crosstalk artifacts and noise with low quality composite sources such as vhs and analogue RF broadcasts. ( some VHS decks alos had this option)

Using it won't hurt but its exactly the same as dropping the colour control to zero.

If its badly labelled it might be a colour temperature setting for something close to D.54 but I doubt it.

Is it a fairly old display?

Some displays had the option of turning off the chroma for B/W viewing . I think the idea behind this was to remove chroma crosstalk artifacts and noise with low quality composite sources such as vhs and analogue RF broadcasts. ( some VHS decks alos had this option)

Using it won't hurt but its exactly the same as dropping the colour control to zero.

If its badly labelled it might be a colour temperature setting for something close to D.54 but I doubt it.

No, it's a brand new Sharp LCD (my Samsung CRT from last year has the same option). I think it's the same thing as bringing the "colour" :) setting down to zero, but I'm not 100% positive about that. The manual says nothing about it beyond that it "toggles color on/off".

I'm surprised no one commented on this:But what do you do with a movie like Sin City? The B&W portions look very very blue, while the color sections look spot on, when calibrated to D65K :(You enjoy them. :) When Sin City was mastered you can rest assured that the monitors used were calibrated to 6500K. If these scenes look blue, it's because the director wanted them that way. ;)