Seen the new article on Projector Central? Panasonic PT-AX200U vs. Sanyo PLV-Z5 shootout. From demo-ing both in my HT I think it is spot on.

Yep.. read it..

This is why it's important to know what features you NEED for your specific setups!

Dark room... Sanyo gets the edge.

Panny everywhere else.

Both do what they are supposed to do rather well. So choose accordingly.

Seen the new article on Projector Central? Panasonic PT-AX200U vs. Sanyo PLV-Z5 shootout. From demo-ing both in my HT I think it is spot on.I don't know...I don't dispute the outcome given I haven't demo'ed the two, but Projector Central just keeps losing credibility in my book.

I find it odd that Evan Powell can heap glowing praise (http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ax200u_home_theater_projector.htm) on the AX200 and then come to find it inferior to the Z5 in 5 of out 7 categories.

Also, in that same AX200 review, he keeps mentioning how great it is that it does 1080p/24, when the AX100 had the very same capability. It is no different at all in that regard. It just tells me that he's not being objective when considering the relative strengths and weaknesses of these products.

I'm starting to view fall as the season when leaves change, the weather cools, days get shorter, and Projector Central crowns the latest LCDs king of home theater projection.

Dark room... Sanyo gets the edge.

Panny everywhere else.


I would word it

Light room... Panny gets the edge.

Sanyo everywhere else.

But generally they supported the widely agreed about specifics of these projectors.

I read that article also kind of strange if you ask me, I put a Z5 in a friend of mines house cause thats what he wanted, I am still running a Z2 into the ground which won't be long. I like the Z5 and strangely enough didn't think it was 5 times better than the Z2, actually I didn't think it was 2 times better than the Z2. Light room Panny, no doubt but who doesn't want to be entertaining watching a football game with a crowd with a bit of light on so you can see who you are talking to. I know some people want total darkness but I have done about 8 and all wanted some light in the room. Have done a couple of panny 700's 900's and as much as I hate to say it they were much brighter than the Z5 and my Z2 so its what you mostly watch. Yes in total darkness the Z5 was nice and I love my Z2 but really like having those extra lums so guessing its panny the next time. Not ready to go 1080 yet but that new Sanyo looks pretty interesting.

brianbes, I think you agree with the article. The panny is better in a bright room, while the z5 has the edge in a dark room. The argument is what is assumed people would want it for. Some people are buying for sports, parties, movies, ambient light conditions and greater flexibility. Others are buying to maximize the dark room experience mainly for watching movies.

Noah, I think projector central has given both these projectors heaping glowing praise. I think it is objective. Before I started my in home demo of the 2 projectors I was heavily biased toward the Panny based on reviews I read. I was so certain it was the projector for me, but I would always wonder if I did not see for myself (buyers remorse). Now I really see how they each offer different qualities.

The flexibility of the Panny had me sold. Then I really started evaluating my needs and situation. I have a small room, I mainly watch movies, many of which at this time are standard definition DVDs. Due to the limited size of the room I seldom have people over to watch the pj with me. If I have a party the projector would be more of a side room attraction rather than the main attraction. It is mainly for the exclusive use of my family. For these reasons the Z5 won for me. Mainly for the excellent picture in a dark room watching movies on standard def DVDs. For me the picture had a little more pop and less distraction (noise). While I may still see some screen door from time to time, the noise is not there like on the Panny (standard def DVDs), also, the small room can heat up quick which I think the Z5 will help minimize that, I can't freeze out the house to cool 1 room. Also, for me I really liked the layout of the remote, more of a bonus than a factor. My son and I watch Dallas Mavericks and Cowboys on it every chance we get and it looks great even with a small lamp on.

Sending the Panny back was still difficult, it was not like it was a night and day easy decision but I am positive it was the right choice for me. Now if I can just get my hands on the new 1080P Panny cause the review is absolutely glowing! I need more money.

forkdeath, thats why those articles have to be taken with a grain of salt. Sounds like in your situation the Sanyo will work just fine and hey again I am partial to Sanyo as I have a Z2. If your room is totally dark and you require no light, I think the Sanyo is gonna have a better picture. Once light enters the picture the panny is gonna be the better choice which is why when people ask me which to buy I ask them what are they gonna be doing with them and how are they watching. Then I make them go to this board and read the threads, go to projector central and read the reviews and decide for themselves.

Yep.. read it..

This is why it's important to know what features you NEED for your specific setups!

Dark room... Sanyo gets the edge.

Panny everywhere else.

Both do what they are supposed to do rather well. So choose accordingly.

How about screen size factor ?
Would Z5 brightness fill OK a 77" screen in a room with ambient light ?
Whereas AX200 could be too bright ?
Also is this true: "the smaller the screen the less visible pixels are" ?

I find it odd that Evan Powell can heap glowing praise (http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ax200u_home_theater_projector.htm) on the AX200 and then come to find it inferior to the Z5 in 5 of out 7 categories.



Funny thing... Just 2 months after a launch AX200 is actually same price or cheaper in Poland than Z5 !
In Germany professionally tuned & tweaked Z5 sells for over $200 more than AX200.

Another thing to consider is how close you are sitting to the screen. If you sit very close then the panasonic smoothscreen will eliminate screen door.

Also Sanyo's poor history of honoring it's warranty (although it may have been an aberation with the z2) is something to consider.

Ugh, I thought I had been decided upon the AX-200, now I'm back to uncertainty. From what I can find, the Sanyo is about $200 less, though I'll be curious to see what happens with the Panny once the current extended warranty offer ends at the end of November. One vendor, who shall not be named for fear of bannination, is offering the AX-200 for the usual price bundled with a bunch of cables (that I do indeed need), perhaps $100 worth. Overall, the price difference is a minor factor.

My situation:

Medium sized room, about 20' (wide) by 18'. The PJ will be on a shelf at the back of the room. There's some flexibility in the seating distance, but about 10' seems like a good estimate.

I'm not 100% decided, but screen will be 92" or less. The ceiling is too low (7.5') to support any more than that, and coming from a 28" CRT, is plenty big.

Primary use will actually be as a big monitor to play PC games on, almost exclusively at night (after the wife and kid, soon to be kids, are asleep), so light isn't generally an issue, but secondary use will be movies, possibly during the day, and perhaps the occasional football game when the in-laws come over. The windows are poorly covered, so daytime will be rather bright.

Right now I don't have any HD sources other than my PC. I have an older progressive scan DVD player that I'd probably use the component out with. I did have a question regarding upscaling DVD players - would I be getting basically the same thing if I were to play DVDs via my PC (DVI->HDMI)? I'll probably upgrade my Dish Network to HD, but I don't forsee getting Blu-ray or HD-DVD anytime soon due to the cost (and the fact that I rent movies, not buy them, unless it's for my kid).


So the smoothscreen of the AX-200 appeals to me... I think. I don't want to see SDE - that bothered me a lot when I saw the early generation DLP/LCD projectors (circa 2000). Now the "shootout" review states you won't see the Sanyo's if you're further than 1.4x screen width (which for a 92" screen means 9.3 feet). If that's true, then I guess I should be OK.

But the better contrast and sharpness of the Sanyo appeals to me - again - I think, especially for PC games with lots of dark areas and text.

But especially the statement that the Sanyo does a better job with 480 signals is what made me hesitate with my AX-200 decision. While I'll have a 720 signal from my PC and probably some DishHD channels, most of the movies will be standard DVDs. Is the noise difference that noticeable?


Whew, sorry, going long here. Long time lurker, first serious post.

So now I'm pondering if I should do what forkdeath did and get both at the same time, then return the one I like less (if I can convince the wife to let me spend double for the short term). Is that considered "ok"? Am I likely to have to pay return shipping (though the aforementioned AX-200 vendor has the nice advantage of the ability to return it to a local outlet)?

Thanks for any advice/comments.

I'd better head over to the screen forum and get THAT decision out of the way in preparation...

In my case, I have a Da-Lite High Power screen (gain = 2.8). The AX200 would be too bright and the Z5 would be just right (it has about the same output, in it's best mode, that my Panny L300 had - which worked great with some ambient room light). It was at the top of my list for a 720p PJ.

BTW, my HP screen is a 106" diagonal 16x9 and I sit 11' from it, the PJ would be 12.5' from the screen, on a shelf.

Since I've upgraded to HDTV service, I will probably wait and get the Sanyo Z2000 :D, once the teething pains (and my finances :eek: ) get ironed out.

There are two things that always concern me about a Panny projector, VB and short bulb life(<1000hr). For some reasons from AE700 to AX200U, Panny models have been plagued by these two problems.
The most serious problem we see on Zs is polarizor dying and Sanyo not honoring warrantees. But those complaints were three years ago and mostly from owners with over 2500 hrs on the PJ. It is hard to feel sorry for somebody who's already gotten more than 2000 hrs out of a Z in less than three years.
I like Panny brand a LOT more than Sanyo, but VB and short bulb life have been keeping me away from Panny PJs.

77" should not be a problem if the Z is within the recommended distance from the screen, actually it should be plenty bright. I have a 110" screen so the lums are a factor. Don't know if I would say would the AX200 be to bright cause you can choose a low lamp mode which should add hours to the bulb. Less visible pixels and even on my Z2 are not a problem if your sitting the proper length away from the screen. Hell I am only 13' from a 110" screen and the screendoor doesn't bother me at all. Again, if your watching with no ambient light the Z will be fine. As I said I usually watch with 2 can lights over my sofa dimmed, can read the paper, if entertaining can actually see who you are talking to and remember I have a large screen so the lums are a big factor. I ruled the Z out the next time because I know what I need so doesn't matter if the Z has a better picture it needs to have a better picture in ambient light and guessing it doesn't compared to the panny.


How about screen size factor ?
Would Z5 brightness fill OK a 77" screen in a room with ambient light ?
Whereas AX200 could be too bright ?
Also is this true: "the smaller the screen the less visible pixels are" ?

Smeglor, if you have the means, and time, to get them both in house then at least you will have 1st hand experience to make you decision. You will not wonder if you made the right choice. It worked out well for me. My cost to this approach was $60 for return shipping. I also had to be careful not to go over 4 hours of use on the returned unit else 15% restocking fee.

However, from reading your situation it sounds to me that the Panny fits best. Your primary reason is for games, and you need a bright projector for daytime viewing on occasion. Your second use was movies. Sounds like you need much more flexibility than me. My critical priority was movies in the dark, while my pj will be used for games, ambient light, and sports with friends, these items are definitely a far second on my list. My room is half the size of yours and I have a high power screen, I think your longer throw distance may require more lumens. The only item I hesitate about is the noise on the Panny for standard def DVDs. For me it kept drawing my attention. I kept noticing it which distracted from the movie. You, and many others, may not be bothered by it. Also, since movie watching is a 2nd priority for you the noise may not be an issue at all.

Again, nothing beats 1st hand knowledge. View them both if at all possible.

forkdeath

Regarding the superiority of the Z5 over the AX200 in terms of black levels, I haven't seen anyone addressing the following notion, which is important:

In their best picture mode ("Cinema1" for the AX200, and "Pure Cinema" for the Z5), the AX200 is 2-3 times brighter than the Z5.

Now, in order to compare black levels, you need both projectors to produce the same amount of light at 100 IRE signal.

ProjectorCentral DID NOT use a ND2 filter on the AX200, in order for both projectors to produce the same amount of light. So, in reality, the AX200 can have equal or better contrast than the Z5, but because the AX200 is so much brighter, its dark scenes seems washed out in comparison to the Z5.

Well I guess the question they ask at Projector Central is "Which pj has the best black levels?" and not "Which pj has the best black levels if we use this filter on AX200?"...

//P

Well I guess the question they ask at Projector Central is "Which pj has the best black levels?" and not "Which pj has the best black levels if we use this filter on AX200?"...

They have to equal the lumen output of both projectors before they can draw any conclusions. The AX200 is 3 times brighter than the Z5, which means its blacks are 3 times grayer for a given screen size.

If you can pop a $30 ND2 filter on the AX200, and make its blacks the same as the Z5, then people should know this.

So what do you suggest they do when it is time to measure both pj's brightness? Should they equal the lumen output for that test as well? And fan noise? Stuff some cotton in the exhaust? Projectors are a new thing to me, so what do I know, but it seems a bit stupid to have a shootout between to brands and then add som peace of extra kit to even out their performance.

C'mon...its a shootout. They open the boxes, hook the pj's up, calibrate and then judge which one they think is the best performer in a number of categorys. Simple as that...

My 2 cents...

//P

So what do you suggest they do when it is time to measure both pj's brightness? Should they equal the lumen output for that test as well? And fan noise? Stuff some cotton in the exhaust? Projectors are a new thing to me, so what do I know, but it seems a bit stupid to have a shootout between to brands and then add som peace of extra kit to even out their performance.

C'mon...its a shootout. They open the boxes, hook the pj's up, calibrate and then judge which one they think is the best performer in a number of categorys. Simple as that...

You are wrong. You can't allow yourself to make a comparison when one projector has 3 times the lumen rating than the other, just like you can't allow yourself you make a comparison between two sound systems, when one is 3 times louder than the other. First, you have to equal the intensity, then you can compare.

You are wrong. You can't allow yourself to make a comparison when one projector has 3 times the lumen rating than the other, just like you can't allow yourself you make a comparison between two sound systems, when one is 3 times louder than the other. First, you have to equal the intensity, then you can compare.

If I'm wrong the whole concept of shootouts is pointless since more or less all different brands and models will vary when it comes to performance and will perform accordingly in different test categorys.

//P

If I'm wrong the whole concept of shootouts is pointless since more or less all different brands and models will vary when it comes to performance and will perform accordingly in different test categorys.

Usually the differences in light output are not as dramatic as between the Z5 (king of dim) to the AX200 (king of bright).

I watched the Directors cut of Troy (HD of course) last nite.
Except for a couple of slight changes in the setup I had the 200u running the lowest possible light out put and it was nothing short of spectacular.
I'll never go to a theater again!
The only thing I really want to see now is that 720p/24 thing...I'd like to know what that looks like!

The bulb life seems to be a crapshoot as most of us know. I did have a panny 700 I did for a friend, the projector really isn't that old as he got it when they started clearing them out for the 900 and he got 1540 out of the bulb. I have over 2200 on the Z. He was a bit disappointed but put those hours on the projector in less then a year and a half and his kids are constantly playing video games probably switching the thing on and off like a regular TV so to tell you the truth I wasn't that surprised. I am no expert and maybe panny has a history or shorter bulb life but a lot has to do with how many times you are cycling the thing on and off. I don't deny my kids their x box, watching tv or a dvd when they want to but I trained them from the start to not go and turn that proj on and off 4 times a day. Before they turn it off if I am home they know to ask me if I am gonna be watching so I don't go down there an hour later and turn it back on. Its better to let the thing run another hour then to constantly turn it on and off cause the bulb takes more of a hit by doing that. If I am not home they know if they are gonna go back down an hour later that I would rather they leave it on for that hour. We also have to remember that these things have come down so much that when you spent 2500 bucks and ate a bulb a year and a half later it hurt a lot more than it does now.



There are two things that always concern me about a Panny projector, VB and short bulb life(<1000hr). For some reasons from AE700 to AX200U, Panny models have been plagued by these two problems.
The most serious problem we see on Zs is polarizor dying and Sanyo not honoring warrantees. But those complaints were three years ago and mostly from owners with over 2500 hrs on the PJ. It is hard to feel sorry for somebody who's already gotten more than 2000 hrs out of a Z in less than three years.
I like Panny brand a LOT more than Sanyo, but VB and short bulb life have been keeping me away from Panny PJs.

I agree with peppelito. The comparison is of the 2 products as is. Some are brighter than others, some are sharper than other, etc. Adding additonal equipment clouds the comparison.

I agree with peppelito. The comparison is of the 2 products as is. Some are brighter than others, some are sharper than other, etc. Adding additonal equipment clouds the comparison.

That's silly.

A ND filter ("Neutral Density" filter) is not an "additonal equipment that clouds the comparison", on the contrary, it allows you to equal the lumen output of both projectors. A difference in lumen output will cloud the comparison.

Of course, when you specifically want to compare the brightness levels between two projectors, you will not put a ND filter on any of them, because this will cloud the comparison. The brighter projector can light up larger screens (In order to comply with the standard brightness for projection, you need the projector to produce 12-16 lumens, per square-foot of the screen, or in other words 12-16 Foot Lamberts).

But, when you want to compare overall image quality between two projectors, you need to first calibrate both to give the same amount of lumen level (and you need to use a screen size that allow both to reach 12-16 foot lamberts), and only then you can draw conclusions about overall image quality, conclusions that are not clouded by difference in lumen output.

The AX200 is 3 times brighter than the Z5. So, if for example, the Z5 gives 14 Foot lamberts on the screen (which is great), then on the same screen, the AX200 will give (14x3=) 42 Foot Lamberts, which is crazy bright. Dark scenes with 42 foot lamberts will look washed out in comparison to the 14 foot lamberts of the Z5, even if the contrast (and dynamic iris quality) of both the Z5 and AX200 is the same.

If, on the other hand, the AX200 gives 14 Foot Lamberts on the screen, then on the same screen, the Z5 will give (14/3=) 4.6 Foot Lamberts, which is crazy dark, it will look so dim you won't be able to watch it (but will have amazing blacks though).

That's silly.

A ND filter ("Neutral Density" filter) is not an "additonal equipment that clouds the comparison", on the contrary, it allows you to equal the lumen output of both projectors. A difference in lumen output will cloud the comparison.

Of course, when you specifically want to compare the brightness levels between two projectors, you will not put a ND filter on any of them, because this will cloud the comparison. The brighter projector can light up larger screens (In order to comply with the standard brightness for projection, you need the projector to produce 12-16 lumens, per square-foot of the screen, or in other words 12-16 Foot Lamberts).

But, when you want to compare overall image quality between two projectors, you need to first calibrate both to give the same amount of lumen level (and you need to use a screen size that allow both to reach 12-16 foot lamberts), and only then you can draw conclusions about overall image quality, conclusions that are not clouded by difference in lumen output.

The AX200 is 3 times brighter than the Z5. So, if for example, the Z5 gives 14 Foot lamberts on the screen (which is great), then on the same screen, the AX200 will give (14x3=) 42 Foot Lamberts, which is crazy bright. Dark scenes with 42 foot lamberts will look washed out in comparison to the 14 foot lamberts of the Z5, even if the contrast (and dynamic iris quality) of both the Z5 and AX200 is the same.

If, on the other hand, the AX200 gives 14 Foot Lamberts on the screen, then on the same screen, the Z5 will give (14/3=) 4.6 Foot Lamberts, which is crazy dark, it will look so dim you won't be able to watch it (but will have amazing blacks though).

You seem to know what you are talking about, but I still think that a shootout should be performed using no extra equipment. In an indepth review of a product, sure...use any equipment you wan't to boost performance. In a shootout you take what you have and make the best of it so to speak...

Let's end this debate and agree that we disagree... :)

//P

You seem to know what you are talking about, but I still think that a shootout should be performed using no extra equipment. In an indepth review of a product, sure...use any equipment you wan't to boost performance. In a shootout you take what you have and make the best of it so to speak...

I'm aware of the limitation of a simple shootout. The bottom line of what I'm saying is that people who want to buy the Z5 over the AX200, just because they've read in a simple shootout that the Z5 has somewhat better black level, should know that the AX200 might be very easily tweaked to give similar performance.

I may be misunderstanding but I read on the AX-200U forum that "An nd filter will not improve/affect the contrast, greyscale tracking, or blacks, nor will it get rid of the white crush."

So how would an ND filter help?

Sorry if this is a stupid question; I'm a newbie, trying to learn the ropes.

If I bought a brighter projector then I am expecting to watch a brighter screen, now how that affects black levels is what I want to know. Take em out the the box, tweak em, compare em, but don't cloud by adding equipment (filters, or anything else). These projectors have different lumens, compare them as such. In real use I not going to constantly be adding and removing filters depending on what I want to do (play games, movies, tv, etc..) To me that would be silly.

If I bought a brighter projector then I am expecting to watch a brighter screen,

Many people are interested in the AX200 not because it's brighter, but because it has no SDE and allow you to sit close. If you intend to use a screen 90" or lower, the AX200's high brightness is going to be a bad thing.

now how that affects black levels is what I want to know

If your projector gives much more than 12 foot lamberts on the screen, you are killing black levels.

These projectors have different lumens, compare them as such. In real use I not going to constantly be adding and removing filters depending on what I want to do (play games, movies, tv, etc..) To me that would be silly.

You don't need to, the filter stays on all the time (if you need one, that is). You have presets you can play with, that can make it brighter.

I may be misunderstanding but I read on the AX-200U forum that "An nd filter will not improve/affect the contrast, greyscale tracking, or blacks, nor will it get rid of the white crush."

So how would an ND filter help?

What you heard is right, except for one thing, an ND filter will improve black levels tremendously, if your projector is too bright.

A ND filter simply cuts out light by a certain degree (a ND-2 filter cuts 50% of the light), so it will make blacks deeper. It shouldn't be hard to comprehend.

What you heard is right, except for one thing, an ND filter will improve black levels tremendously, if your projector is too bright.

A ND filter simply cuts out light by a certain degree (a ND-2 filter cuts 50% of the light), so it will make blacks deeper. It shouldn't be hard to comprehend.

Thanks Jones! That does help.

Have you seen what the AX200 looks like with the ND on it? I am only curious because I am trying to decide on getting one of those, or a Z5, or (if I find some extra money) an AE2000. If you would read my thread "What should I get?", I'd love to get your opinion.

If you intend to use a screen 90" or lower, the AX200's high brightness is going to be a bad thing.

J_R, must you use an ND filter to turn down the brightness? Can you achieve this through the projector's settings / calibration?

Thanks,

- hoju

Regarding the superiority of the Z5 over the AX200 in terms of black levels, I haven't seen anyone addressing the following notion, which is important:

In their best picture mode ("Cinema1" for the AX200, and "Pure Cinema" for the Z5), the AX200 is 2-3 times brighter than the Z5.

Now, in order to compare black levels, you need both projectors to produce the same amount of light at 100 IRE signal.

ProjectorCentral DID NOT use a ND2 filter on the AX200, in order for both projectors to produce the same amount of light. So, in reality, the AX200 can have equal or better contrast than the Z5, but because the AX200 is so much brighter, its dark scenes seems washed out in comparison to the Z5.I think that's way off. These are both dynamic iris units, so the 0 IRE brightness isn't going to linearly correspond to 100 IRE brightness.

That's the technical issue, but I also believe that the more relevant comparison is one that is more likely to reflect common usage and apply the same conditions to each product. Probably less than 1% of projector buyers have ever tried a filter. Grayscale calibrations are probably about as rare, but at least that's going to be done to both units (or none at all) in a well-conducted shootout. Putting a filter on one and not the other just doesn't wash as an apples to apples comparison.

Jones_Rush, I hear you, I understand you argument, but I don't see it your way. It should be an objective comparison of how well each produces black levels out of the box. For example, the article also did not mention a tweak for reducing SDE on the Z5 is to slightly defocus the projector. Just like this would sacrifice sharpness to reduced SDE, you are sacrificing brightness to improve black levels. If I put this filter on to improve black levels what happens now when I turn on the light and have friends over to watch a football game? The suggestion is the filter always stays on, so now I am degrading the ambient light watching conditions. The article is not trying to guess how people are going to use it, just how the feature compares to one another out of the box. I would guess the results are because the Panny is trying to strike a happy medium for dark and ambient light viewing while the Z5 is not.

The Lambert stuff all sounds good but it really does not help. Most people don't own any light measurement equipment. They just know what they see. Generally as technology improves I would assume black levels per Lambert will improve differently between projectors depending on the technology used by the manufacturer. I am not convinced one number fits all.

Why an ND filter? Why not place the Panny farther away from the screen, or use a low gain screen on the Panny and a high gain on the Z5. Or adjust to brightness. Any of these options would compensate for brightness. Once you start compensating the comparison it becomes cloudy. I do agree that an ND filter can improve the black level, I just don't believe it should not be used in the comparison.

About the article... what i really can't stand is to start with

Please keep in mind that many of the differences listed here are subtle, and only visible in side-by-side testing. These two projectors are outstanding, and we list the subtle differences for completeness' sake.

and then say things like:

the Z5 is clearly and definitively higher in contrast than the AX200 in side-by-side tests. This translates to deeper blacks, better shadow detail, and a more impressive image in a darkened room.

If I take this for granted, how can I even think about buying the AX200?

Don't take anything for granted. You need to make your decision based on your viewing environment. I assume the reviewer's environment is a darkened HT room - dark walls, ceiling, very little ambient light. This environment understandably favours the Sanyo over the Panny. The advantages of the Sanyo's deeper black will be reduced if you have lighter walls, ceiling, some ambient light, etc. A lot of people bought the Panny. They did their homework.

About the article... what i really can't stand is to start with

Quote:
Please keep in mind that many of the differences listed here are subtle, and only visible in side-by-side testing. These two projectors are outstanding, and we list the subtle differences for completeness' sake.
and then say things like:

Quote:
the Z5 is clearly and definitively higher in contrast than the AX200 in side-by-side tests. This translates to deeper blacks, better shadow detail, and a more impressive image in a darkened room.
If I take this for granted, how can I even think about buying the AX200?

I've got the panny and I like it...If I was researching it like you I'd find this very frustrating as well. I feel your pain.
Fact is tho unless you have a reason to need the ambient light flexibility I think either would make you happy!

i really want to research my PJ purchase, but this stuff is so subjective. what looks good to one may not to another. it can make my head spin.

so, which one of these is better at out of the box performance. my room is 21x13x7.5 and will have dark walls and no natural light (in the basement).

stop the spinning!!! :)

later.

the Z5 is clearly and definitively higher in contrast than the AX200 in side-by-side tests. This translates to deeper blacks, better shadow detail, and a more impressive image in a darkened room.

This very much contrasts what Art from ProjectorReviews had to say about the AX200's shadow detail:

The PT-AX200U does a very respectable job on black levels, but more impressive, is its handling of shadow details. Now these two are typically closely related. If a projector can't begin to produce really dark blacks - as was typical of projectors just a few years ago, it can't reveal the dark details that are supposed to be darker than the blacks it produces. Panasonic, though, like many other projectors, deals with this electronically. The end result, is that the Panasonic happens to be excellent at shadow details, rivaling most of the far more expensive 1080p projectors out there.

Now to different subjects:

Have you seen what the AX200 looks like with the ND on it? I am only curious because I am trying to decide on getting one of those, or a Z5, or (if I find some extra money) an AE2000. If you would read my thread "What should I get?", I'd love to get your opinion.

I think the AX200U is the best deal for now. Its very high brightness will make it easier to sell it when time comes, in order to upgrade for 1080p. If you're on a budget like me, I think waiting several months with 1080p will prove itself very worthwhile.

I haven't seen how the AX200 looks with a ND filter, but I saw other projectors with ND filter, and it improves the image tremendously if it's too bright.

J_R, must you use an ND filter to turn down the brightness? Can you achieve this through the projector's settings / calibration?

Yes, but in the special case of the AX200U, even if you use the dimmest settings the projector has to offer (Cinema1, lamp on Eco), you are still left with something like 600 lumens (when the lamp is new), and this is too much for screens ~90" or smaller.

I think that's way off. These are both dynamic iris units, so the 0 IRE brightness isn't going to linearly correspond to 100 IRE brightness.

It's very simple, if you put a ND2 filter in front of the projector lens, then 0 IRE brightness is going to be cut down by half, meaning better blacks. 100 IRE is going to be cut too to 50%, but we are using a ND filter only when the projector is too bright to begin with for a given screen, so there are no downsides.


Putting a filter on one and not the other just doesn't wash as an apples to apples comparison.

The alternative is to have 1 projector put 15 Foot Lamberts on the screen, and the other blinding 45 Foot lamberts. I think this alternative is much worse.

If I put this filter on to improve black levels what happens now when I turn on the light and have friends over to watch a football game? The suggestion is the filter always stays on, so now I am degrading the ambient light watching conditions. The article is not trying to guess how people are going to use it, just how the feature compares to one another out of the box. I would guess the results are because the Panny is trying to strike a happy medium for dark and ambient light viewing while the Z5 is not.

Forget about the article for a moment. The important thing here for future buyers, is that by using a ND filter, the AX200 might easily reproduce the Z5 blacks in dark environmet. This is important for many people.

The analogy with the Z5 and de-focusing to get rid of SDE is not accurate, because you will *never* be able to sit 1 screen width with the Z5, and de-focus to a level where you won't see SDE at all, and still get the same sharpness as the AX200U. The Z5 will look like crap and I'm talking from experience.

Why an ND filter? Why not place the Panny farther away from the screen, or use a low gain screen on the Panny and a high gain on the Z5. Or adjust to brightness.

Putting the AX200 farther away from the screen in order to reduce brightness is an option, but many people can't use it because their room aren't large enough. Furthermore, when the lamp age and drop in brightness, most people don't want to relocate their projector closer to the screen, after it is already fixed in the back. Regarding using a low gain or high gain screens, that's an option, but these screens can dramatically affect ANSI contrast, so doing an A/B comparison where one projector uses a low gain screen and the other a high gain screen, is not a good idea. Adjusting the brightness setting on the projector will degrade image quality.

This very much contrasts what Art from ProjectorReviews had to say about the AX200's shadow detail:


How so? I mean, isn't it possible that the AX200 can be as good as Art describes, but still be beaten by Z5 when it comes to shadow detail? The only thing that Projector Central suggests is that Z5 is better, not that AX200is lousy.

I guess it comes down to which reviews we choose to belive in...

//P

How so? I mean, isn't it possible that the AX200 can be as good as Art describes, but still be beaten by Z5 when it comes to shadow detail?

Yes you are right this is possible. It's simply that If the AX200's shadow details rival most of the far more expensive 1080p projectors, somehow it doesn't sit right with a claim where the old Z5 is distinctively better.

If the AX200's shadow details rival most of the far more expensive 1080p projectors, somehow it doesn't sit right with a claim where the old Z5 is distinctively better.

Yeah sure, but the shootout reviewer obviously thinks that Z5 performs better than the AX200 when it comes to shadow details. So once again...who to believe??? Or is Art undisputable when it comes to reviewing projectors?

I actually believe that AX200 is a terrific pj and that it has some key benefits compared to Z5 and I would probably have bought the Panny if the pricing in Sweden would have been different. I am however not sure that black levels and shadow detail is one of those key benefits (compared to Z5) considering how bright the AX200 is.

At the end of this week I will hook up everything in my HT and view my first film on the Z5 and then I can tell you firsthand if the Z5 has sufficient black levels and shadow detail to fit me and my girlfriends needs. In the end, what we think about the pj we bought, is all that matters to us.

//P

Jones Rush,

I don't know if you're understanding me. You see, dynamic irises create a situation where the brighter projector will not automatically have a poorer black level.

Checking Ultimate AV's review of the AE900 (http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1105panasonic/index5.html), you'll find the following:I measured a peak contrast ratio on the Panasonic of 1553:1 (12.67 foot-Lamberts peak white, 0.010 video black, Cinema 2 mode, lamp setting Low) with the Dynamic Iris engaged, and 668:1 (14.04fL/0.021fL) with it off. Interestingly, the contrast ratio increased to 1940:1 in the High lamp setting, but only because the peak white level increased (the video black level, surprisingly, remained the same).

Contrast ratio increases on the full power bulb setting, while black level is unchanged! Sure, black level would improve with a filter, but then we're testing filters and not the projector.

Adding a filter to equalize brightness in a shootout makes no sense unless you're measuring brightness-equalized black level, and advising your target audience to use a filter as well. By then, what's the point? You don't go around leveling out every other characteristic...I think we ultimately want to draw out differences, don't we?

Also, ND or other filters will always lower contrast ratio (especially ANSI/intrascene) by introducing another set of reflections back into the lens.

It sounds like quite a bit of POO (pride of ownership) is coming across in your posts. I'm not a big fan of Projector Central, myself, but I'd find more fault with your methodology and objectivity, in this case.

Noah, I do read Projector Central quite a bit because I cant find much else out there. They also don't get overly technical which I like (not a lot of talk about Lamberts per square foot or for that matter 'ANSI/intrascene' not sure what this is. Should I be concerned?). Where do you go to find articles that you put more stock in?

Thanks

OK, this is probably a dumb question, but when comparing last year's model with this year's new model, how do you deal with the fact that the older model may have a dimmer lamp after a year's use. When I put in a new lamp it looks great for a few hundred hours and then the light output slowly drops. Do folks put a new bulb in the older projector? Or, perhaps, burn in the new Projector until they both have used lamps? I have really been wondering about this. I don't want to think we are just describing the differences between a new and an old lamp. Thanks for any input.

Jones Rush,

I don't know if you're understanding me. You see, dynamic irises create a situation where the brighter projector will not automatically have a poorer black level.

Contrast ratio increases on the full power bulb setting, while black level is unchanged! Sure, black level would improve with a filter, but then we're testing filters and not the projector.

The fact that the black level didn't go higher in high lamp mode, is indeed surprising. Still, the change from low lamp to high lamp increases the brightness level by about 20%. On the other hand, the difference in brightness between the AX200 and Z5 (when both are in their best modes), is 300% (!), I can assure you that the black levels will not stay the same, those of the AX200 will be worse in comparison.

Adding a filter to equalize brightness in a shootout makes no sense unless you're measuring brightness-equalized black level, and advising your target audience to use a filter as well. By then, what's the point? You don't go around leveling out every other characteristic...I think we ultimately want to draw out differences, don't we?

Again, adding a filter to equalize brightness in a shootout makes a lot of sense, when one projector is 3 times brighter than the other. It's like comparing two sound systems when one is 3 times louder than the other, what kind of a comparison is that ?, the problem with digital projector is that they don't have "volume control" for brightness, if you play with the brightness setting you usually completely destroy the PQ. So, for "volume control", you use ND filters or play with the gain of the screen.

Also, ND or other filters will always lower contrast ratio (especially ANSI/intrascene) by introducing another set of reflections back into the lens.

It will somewhat reduce ANSI CR, but subjectively I haven't been able to see degradation in this regard (using Hoya coated ND filter).

It sounds like quite a bit of POO (pride of ownership) is coming across in your posts. I'm not a big fan of Projector Central, myself, but I'd find more fault with your methodology and objectivity, in this case.

I don't own the AX200, so you can't blame me for lack of objectivity.

I get it, you claim that comparing two projectors, when one is 3 times brighter than the other (and have much worse black because of this), is better done without equaling their brightness level. Let's agree to disagree.

And lastly, my bottom line again, I don't care for this Z5 vs AX200 review, the important thing is that with a cheap and simple tweak like using a ND filter, you can get the Z5's blacks. This is important for some.

the important thing is that with a cheap and simple tweak like using a ND filter, you can get the Z5's blacks.This is important for some.

Do you know that for sure? I mean, is this something you have tested on the AX200 and have firsthand knowledge of? Or is it based on theory? That would be equally important to know for some...

OK, this is probably a dumb question, but when comparing last year's model with this year's new model, how do you deal with the fact that the older model may have a dimmer lamp after a year's use. When I put in a new lamp it looks great for a few hundred hours and then the light output slowly drops. Do folks put a new bulb in the older projector? Or, perhaps, burn in the new Projector until they both have used lamps? I have really been wondering about this. I don't want to think we are just describing the differences between a new and an old lamp. Thanks for any input.

Z5 is still being produced and is on sale in many countries. In fact in Germany and Poland Z5 costs the same as AX200 !
So for the testing it is quite easy to get 2 brand new pj's.

What size of Nd Filter would you need for the Panny? I see many different ones on the net.

Do you know that for sure? I mean, is this something you have tested on the AX200 and have firsthand knowledge of? Or is it based on theory? That would be equally important to know for some...

No, I can't say for sure that the AX200's blacks will be exactly like the Z5's (or better) after using a ND filter.

A year ago I tested the Panny PT-AX100U on a 92" screen. At Cinema1 the projector was way too bright and blacks looked too grey. I used a ND2 filter (from Hoya), and first thing this stopped the bright scenes from being blinding. Second, it made the blacks darker, and I'm not talking a small difference here. (Eventually I didn't go with the AX100 because of its reliability issues, which I hope are solved with the AX200).

What size of Nd Filter would you need for the Panny? I see many different ones on the net.

The ND filter that I used for the AX100, was the "Hoya HMC multi-coated", and if I'm not mistaken, the size was 77mm, and it fit perfectly on the lens.

This is how it looks:

http://www.camerafilters.com//images/nd/hoyand2.jpg

Here is some interesting info regarding usage of the ND2 filter (those who worry about the negative effect of the filter on ANSI contrast, please take close look at the last two paragraphs):

Taken from: http://128.121.92.130/audio/avhtm.htm

Because I'm only what some would regard as a small screen of 72" diagonal (1600mm wide) with an area of 15ft² with is about half the area of a 100" diagonal screen I thought I'd try the 77mm Hoya HMC NDx2 neutral density filter that I used with the HS60. Turns out it works fine, at least with a new lamp. Time will tell if it needs to be removed as the lamp dims.

Hoya make photographic filters and they're very high quality but you do pay a premium for this. The HMC series are multi coated and top of the range. They claim only a couple of percent reflection which if you're going to shine a very bright light through them is probably a good thing. I obtained mine from Greg Smith's DVdreamtime [www.dvdreamtime.com.au] and Greg was very helpful in selecting the filters, has competitive pricing and very prompt delivery from his Canberra based business.

Mounting the filter involves involves turning it around, slipping the front flange over the lens housing which is just manages to grip rather than slide over and using some Blu-Tack to secure it. Having successfully mounted the NDx2 and as the VW50 uses a UHP lamp which is deficient in red like all UHP lamps I thought I'd also try the Hoya HMC FLD (Fluorescent Day) which I also used on the HS60 to bring the red levels back in line after the Green and Blue RGB Gain are adjusted upwards to compensate. The second filter simply screws onto the front of the first one.

As to the question of whether using any sort of filter reduces the ANSI contrast because of reflections off the filter back into the lens I spent a couple of hours one day finding out. I measured ANSI contrast without a filter and various mounting arrangements of with filter, including supposedly worst case which is the filter hard up against lens housing (surface at right angle to light path), as well as mounted at 15 º and 30º and also including (or not) piece(s) of black felt (circular with 16x9 rectangular hole in the centre obviously) covering the lens and also on the rear of the filter glass.

From best to worst the difference was a tad over 1% so therefore not really worth worrying about. Not to say that there isn't a reduction in ANSI contrast when using a filter but it's probably more dependent on the filter than the mounting arrangement. Hoya make very good filters and the HMC series have the lowest reflectivity of them all. My current mounting arrangement is hard up against the lens housing with a piece of black felt between the filter and the lens. I should also point out that I'm using minimum zoom and no lens shift at all and that the use of either probably has a more detrimental effect on ANSI contrast than any filter you're likely to use.

Thanks for the additional information, everyone (esp. forkdeath). I think I can feel confident with an AX200 purchase now (again).

Thanks for the additional information, everyone (esp. forkdeath). I think I can feel confident with an AX200 purchase now (again).


So, you like the prospect of the bulb maybe lasting 1500 hours??

So, you like the prospect of the bulb maybe lasting 1500 hours??

You can buy a Mack 3 year warranty for the bulb, for $87. No matter which projector you buy, not buying this warranty is simply a crime (Warrantech offers such warranty too, not sure about prices).

So, you like the prospect of the bulb maybe lasting 1500 hours??

Yeah, because we all know the AX200 is the only projector out there to have premature bulb failure :rolleyes:

You can buy a Mack 3 year warranty for the bulb, for $87.

Really?! Where do I sign up, I checked the Special Deals section and they only have PJ + bulb warranties, no 'bulb only' deals. Shoot me a PM if necessary.

Which one would you use for 16'-17' throw into a 92" screen and 11' seating distance? Would the Z5 put out enough light for that?

I too am debating between the 200U and the Z5 (or possibly the 2000U)

But the screen size I want is at least 120" diagonal. I probably have about 15' max to throw it. So would the Z5 be able to do a screen that big? Also I would use it mostly for daytime watching of sports and video games rather than nighttime movies (which I would do too, but not as much). So is the Z5 really gonna work for that or is the 200U better? Thanks for your help.

I too am debating between the 200U and the Z5 (or possibly the 2000U)

But the screen size I want is at least 120" diagonal. I probably have about 15' max to throw it. So would the Z5 be able to do a screen that big? Also I would use it mostly for daytime watching of sports and video games rather than nighttime movies (which I would do too, but not as much). So is the Z5 really gonna work for that or is the 200U better? Thanks for your help.

Same boat as u and Im going with the AX200 (with a bulb warranty). Z5 is slightly better but the lack of lumens and a neccessity of a light-controlled environment steers me towards the AX200.

The reviewer even said that the difference in sharpness between the 2 IS ONLY visible IF u do a direct comparison side by side. I've yet to see that any current AX200 owner complained about the sharpness so far in ANY thread. The lack of pixel structure on the AX is what compensates for the sharpness and the reason why its called "a poor mans 1080p PJ".

Frag

Same boat as u and Im going with the AX200 (with a bulb warranty). Z5 is slightly better but the lack of lumens and a neccessity of a light-controlled environment steers me towards the AX200.

The reviewer even said that the difference in sharpness between the 2 IS ONLY visible IF u do a direct comparison side by side. I've yet to see that any current AX200 owner complained about the sharpness so far in ANY thread. The lack of pixel structure on the AX is what compensates for the sharpness and the reason why its called "a poor mans 1080p PJ".

Frag

Well, it's not just sharpness, there is contrast and digital noise as well. Also, the comment:

Please keep in mind that many of the differences listed here are subtle, and only visible in side-by-side testing.

goes for the lumens-difference as well... I just got a great offer for the Z5 (1.350,-$ with a spare bulb included (germany)) and as the ax200 costs about 30% more, i think i will go for the Z5.

Well, it's not just sharpness, there is contrast and digital noise as well. Also, the comment:



goes for the lumens-difference as well...

Not quite, as reported by Projector Central, there seems to be a slight difference between the two in regards to lumens.

Brightness: The Panasonic AX200 dominates this category. Lumen output on the AX200U runs from a maximum of 1845 ANSI lumens down to a minimum of 257 ANSI lumens. Meanwhile, the Sanyo PLV-Z5 runs to a maximum of 780 ANSI and a minimum of 180 ANSI, which makes the AX200 about 2.4 times as bright as the Sanyo Z5 in the projectors' brightest modes.

But ultimately, as long as you're happy with your purchase, that is all that matters.

I am thinking of buying one of theses projectors for an upgrade, I haven't seen either in action, so I will appreciate your help. At the moment I have an Optoma H31, which I really like. I had it for 2 years.
I am moving from my actual place and the Optoma will not fit in my new house. If it did, I would be instead buying another Optoma, maybe H72 or the Mits (however the Mits it is not recommended for use above 1,500mtrs I live at 2,200mtrs above sea level). But these two projectors seams to fit my needs, because the flexibility in placement they offer. I am not very thrilled of changing to LCD, though.
I will need to place the projector about 6.5 feet from the ground, but not ceiling mounted. I will not have light control, because the projector will be installed in a living room, but I will mostly use the projector at late afternoon and night. The distance from the projector to the screen will be 11 feet and I will be sitting more or less at the same distance, and I was thinking of a 92" Gray Wolf 1.8 Screen, no chance for a fixed screen, the wife will kill me.
At the moment, and most of the time I watch SD going through a DVDO upconverter (I use it with my Hitachi Plasma at 720P and the Optoma at 480p), which I think is great. I also plan on buying a blu-ray player that will go directly to the projector along with the DVDO feeding my DVD and satellite.
So here are my questions:
Can I place either of these projectors in a normal way, in a shelf (no ceiling mounted) at 6 feet from the ground and using the vertical shift to adjust the image to center int on the screen? The screen will be hanged at 8 feet from ceiling.
I am very picky about SDE so, in real life would I be able to see the Sanyo's Z5 SDE from my sitting distance?
Is the Optoma screen to dark for the Sanyo?
I will be going to the US next week, I am in Mexico. So I have to make up my mind this weekend, because I have to buy, both the screen and projector next week.
So, in your opinion which of these projectors should I buy for my needs?
Thanks in advance.

anybody??

anybody??

Hey alramon,

I just finished my first viewing of my brand new Z5 and let me say I was pretty impressed. I also pulled down my 2+ year old H31 and hung the Z5 in the same exact position with NO problems what so ever. I've been dealing with RBE for along time with the H31, so to move to LCD was the best thing I could have done. Because I was using DVI with the H31, I do not have HDMI ran in my theater yet...I will with in the next week or two. So I used some component cables to try it out. The picture I first saw was very impressive from my HD DISH network receiver. The lack of noise was amazing, and going from 480p to 720p is obviously tremendous. I saw no SDE until I was about 2-3 feet away, the H31 is much greater in SDE so you shouldn't have any problem. I sit about 10' and 15' from a 92" screen. I tweaked my H31 to the point were it was almost perfect and the Z5 had almost the same out of the box picture, with about an hour of just tweaking the picture is improving (better blacks and detail) but I don't want to spend that much time until I get the HDMI hooked up. The fan is quiet, much less then the H31, but there was a noticable mechanical sound from the auto-iris. Does anyone know if that sound is supposed to be there, it's not very loud but it sounds like camera shutter?

Hey alramon, I've had the Z5 for about 10 months, and I'm VERY happy with it. I have it in my living room and I watch the NFL in HD and it is incredible. My PJ is 13' from screen with seating about same - no SDE -
(92" screen) Also have PS3 for blue-ray and 306-add-on for HD-DVD and they both look unreal.

Thank you both for your answer.
How about poor light control?
Optoma screen would be a good match?
And most important, placement, can I place tha projector in a shelf 6 feet above the ground?
Thanks

I have poor light control in my living room and yes the Z5 is fine, but you still should put drapes on windows for best results. I also have my PJ on a shelf about 5 1/2' from floor. As far as screens go, you can go to the screen section for good advice - I've seen alot of Z5 owners go with an Dalite High Power screen - 2.0 gain ( I think) - it helps with day-time viewing.

I have a draper high power (2.8) and I won't be using it, I'll use the 1.0 since the Z5 is plenty bright.

You can buy a Mack 3 year warranty for the bulb, for $87. No matter which projector you buy, not buying this warranty is simply a crime (Warrantech offers such warranty too, not sure about prices).

Can you send me a PM on where we can get a Mack 3 year warranty on the bulb?

I am looking to upgrade my pan.500 which has over 5000 hours on the bulb to possibly the pan.200 which claims only 2000, I would definitely be willing to pay for a 3 year bulb warranty....how many hours does that warranty cover?

P.S. Kind of a bummer the old pan.500 got over 5000 hours and current line of projectors only getting around 2000.

After hours and hours of comparing and deciding i finally did choose the z5 as my next projector. If follows my z3 which has done a good job, though its blue panel got screwed up (i blame it on me not cleaning it regularly). thanks to the forum for this buckload of information :-)

Lets just hope it was the right decision.

I'm a newbie to projectors and from a full day of reading it seems like the 200u and z5 are 2 good choices to get descent bang for your buck.
The 200u interested me starting out because I am looking to be doing considerable gaming on my pj. The shootout starts by saying the 200u might be better for gamers but they didn't really talk about it when comparing. You would think if you have better blacks the z5 would be better for gaming.
My other issue is also that I will be in a small room only 10' and I would like to get the biggest screen possible that will probably be in the 95" range. So I am scared the screendoor effect will plague me.
Anyways just wondering your thought on gaming part of things and if the screen door effect is present when installing your pj in such a small room.
Seems like it's just going to be a coin toss for me, witch ever one I can get cheapest maybe...
Thanks

I game on my Z5 (replaced a Z3) from 12' with an XBox 360 and its great. I cannot say I have ever had an issue gaming with the Z3 or Z5.

Does anyone know if the Sanyo Z5 supports 1080p/24 such as using a PS3 to play back a blu-ray disc with 1080p/24 enabled in the PS3? Thanks.

The Z5 will accept 1080p/50 (or 60), but not 1080p/24.

//P

If I bought a brighter projector then I am expecting to watch a brighter screen, now how that affects black levels is what I want to know. Take em out the the box, tweak em, compare em, but don't cloud by adding equipment (filters, or anything else). These projectors have different lumens, compare them as such. In real use I not going to constantly be adding and removing filters depending on what I want to do (play games, movies, tv, etc..) To me that would be silly.

What size screen (and screen material) should be used for the comparison?

What size screen (and screen material) should be used for the comparison?

A grayhawk at 22 foot!

No, no, just kidding. It should be the same screen at the same distance. They do not mention what they are using, I would assume a commonly used material at an average distance. I don't think they are trying to trick us to believe something that is not true. They are just reporting it as they see it. Pretty much spot on from my own in home observation of the 2.

I agree that the reviews are good and helpful; just pointing out the potentially disparate impact of varying, yet identical test conditions. Fortunately, there are many new PJs that are affordable, throw a great picture, and can be matched to a particular set of needs; now is a good time to be enjoying this hobby.

Cine4home in Germany reviewed both the Panny AX200 and Sanyo Z5. They measured both these projectors using the same measurement equipment, so it is possible to compare their numbers and pictures.

First, regarding screen door:

Here is a picture taken closer to the screen with the Z5 projecting:

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/SanyoZ5/Bild41.jpg

Here is the same picture now taken with the AX200 projecting:

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/PanasonicPTAX200/AX200-26.jpg

As you can see, the difference in SDE in nothing short of night and day.


Second, regarding On/Off contrast ratio (native and dynamic) at accurate color mode, and corresponding lumen level:

Z5 (Lamp at "eco" mode):
Native on/off contrast = 950:1
Dynamic on/off contrast = 3200:1
Lumen output = 300 lumens.

AX200 (Lamp at "eco" mode)
Native on/off contrast = 1200:1
Dynamic on/off contrast = 3500:1
Lumen output = 560 lumens.

As you can see, the AX200 definitely doesn't trail behind the Z5 when it comes to contrast, on the contrary. This means that the AX200 can produce a more vivid image with better blacks than the Z5, when both in color accurate mode.

The important thing to note, is that the AX200 is producing close to twice the lumen output of the Z5, at best color mode. This means that if both projectors will be used to drive the same screen (in their best color mode), without taking measurements to tame the high lumen output of the AX200, the Z5's black levels will seem to be much blacker.

I still like Z5...

I'm down to the AX200 and the Z5. I currnetly have a 2nd hand Z2 which i bought to see if i would be intrested in Pjs ect.. AND.. yes i am!
My question is this:
At 9' to 10' from an 80" diagonal i see SDE with the Z2, Has enyone gone from a 4year + old LCD pj with the same SDE issiue, to a Z5? And if so whats the SDE like compared to the old pj?
Thanks
PS I know the AX200 will suit me better if i'm prown to SDE, but i don't want to lose the sharpness of the Z5 (from what i'v read).