What is this? Do any of the 58" or 60" sets do this?

By definition:

"1:1 Pixel mapping refers to the property that a HDTV is capable of displaying a digital signal transmitted at its native resolution without scaling the image."

Chris

Thanks, so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?

Thanks, so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?

Yes and No. It uses the native resolution which also gives it the best possible picture. This means if you have a bluray player in your pc or downloaded some HD material to your pc and watch it on your plasma it will have a killer resolution, the best.

This is just a little more of what 1:1 mapping can do.

so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?Incorrect!

It has NOTHING to do with computers. It has everything to do with original source and display resolution!

You can 1:1 pixel map in the following ** instances:
SD DVD (854x480) on ED (480p) displays.
720p HDTV (1280x720) (ABC,FOX,ESPN, Nat Geo) on HD (720p) displays.
1080i HDTV (1920x1080) (all "other" HDTV channels) on HD (1080i/p) displays.
HD DVD (1920x1080) on HD (1080p) displays.


** The display must have a "native" (internal scaler defeated) mode for this to work.

Incorrect!

It has NOTHING to do with computers. It has everything to do with original source and display resolution!

You can 1:1 pixel map in the following ** instances:
SD DVD (854x480) on ED (480p) displays.
720p HDTV (1280x720) (ABC,FOX,ESPN, Nat Geo) on HD (720p) displays.
1080i HDTV (1920x1080) (all "other" HDTV channels) on HD (1080i/p) displays.
HD DVD (1920x1080) on HD (1080p) displays.


** The display must have a "native" (internal scaler defeated) mode for this to work.

Thanks cavu!

Chris

And as an added note, some people do 1:1 pixel mapping so the display does basically no video processing so 1080i wouldn't be appropriate if you are trying to bypass video processing in the display.

larry

Thanks, so it has no effect if you are not using a computer, correct?

Hi Active Speaker,

Not necessarily. There are some standalone DVD players/ scalers that can output 1:1 pixel mapping via DVI. The DVI interface has the ability to use the panel's phyiscal native resolution. 1366x768P displays for example, can be displayed at 1366 x 768 via DVI. But most you'll find with DVD players these days are HDMI, which in this case, cannot give you 1366x768. It'll be either 720p, 1080i/p, or 480p which will not be able to deliver as good PQ/TQ as the DVI outputting at 1:1.

Now say if you have a 1080P display, you can then have 1:1 mapping *with* HDMI, because HDMI is able to output 1920x1080. The DVI should also work at 1:1. Theorically, the VGA can put out 1920x1080 but I have not gotten the confirmation who has actually done it. Even if it does it, it's not going to be as good as DVI or HDMI.

So yeah, some 768p *Consumer* Panny TVs have the phyical hardware to handle 1:1, but they don't come with DVI.... Once again, HDMI can't do it in this case because it's 768p panel.

What's allowing the 768P Professional(Commercial) Panny TVs to run 1:1 is the availability of having the DVI connection.

Also, the 768P Pioneer plasma can't do 1:1, even *if* it had DVI because the panel's phyical native resolution is at 1365 x 768 and not 1366 x 768.

Larry is right ... to a point.

BUT interlaced signals (480i/1080i) have to be deinterlaced SOMEWHERE to be viewed on a digital display, so it becomes a matter of which video processor does the better job: the source (ie. STB, DVD, etc.) or the display.

Many aficienados prefer using the "raw" native 480i digital output from their DVD player and let the display processor do the work.

There are some standalone DVD players/ scalers that can output 1:1 pixel mapping via DVI.WOW!

The segment I quoted is about the only part of that message that is correct.

The rest is gobbledygook or bafflegab!

I am typing on my mobile PDA and don't have the patience to respond to every element of this misguided post, but: DVI & HDMI have identical video performance; The is no such thing as 1:1 pixel-mapping when using 768p ! There is no such thing as a native 768p program source. 768p (and its variants) are non-standard HDTV resolutions - they are computer display resolutions!If you, the reader, do not already have a solid grasp of the concept of 1:1 pixel-mapping and can sort through IamAnoobieCheez's ramblings, it will be in your interest to ignore his post altogether!

Looks like somebody has woken up from the wrong side of bed. :D


WOW!

but: DVI & HDMI have identical[u] video performance;
Yes they do.


But HDMI can't output 1366 x 768 display on a 768P panel. It'll run at 1280x720 or 1920x1080i which is not the panel's native resolution. Hence the pictures gets *stretched*, giving blurry soft images. In that case, the DVI will eat HDMI like a little cup cake. :)


The is no such thing as 1:1 pixel-mapping when using 768p !
That is incorrect.

The 768P panel outputs 1366x768 1:1 pixel mapping, *if* you use DVI and the video card supports it.


There is no such thing as a native 768p program source. 768p (and its variants) are [u]non-standard HDTV resolutions - they are computer display resolutions!
Yep, that is correct. So I don't see what you are trying to argue about.:)



If you, the reader, do not already have a solid grasp of the concept of 1:1 pixel-mapping and can sort through IamAnoobieCheez's ramblings, it will be 9n your interest to ignore his post altogether!

Actually, based on your post with incorrect information, this message applies to you.:o You have been seriously confused, or mis-informed.:)

Actually, I wasn't gonna pick on your post, but since you are asking for it, I'll give it to you.:)
Incorrect!

It has NOTHING to do with computers. It has everything to do with original source and display resolution!

You can 1:1 pixel map in the following ** instances:
720p HDTV (1280x720) (ABC,FOX,ESPN, Nat Geo) on HD (720p) displays.
You need to be careful...... There are not many 720P panels out there. Only a few TVs like some late model Panasonic Industrial model does have 720 vertical resolutions, but most other TVs are 768P or 1080P. If the panel is 768p, and view a 720p broadcast signal, you cannot get 1:1 mapping.


1080i HDTV (1920x1080) (all "other" HDTV channels) on HD (1080i/p) displays.

Now you are going way overboard. This is wrong information. The *1080i* displays cannot do 1:1 mapping when viewing 1080i(1920x1080i) broadcast signal. You are stretching the screen.

I think you are getting confused with the Broadcast signals and the 1:1 mapping of the TV. You need to stop spamming fraud information. This is your warning. :)

But HDMI can't output 1366 x 768 display on a 768P panel.Absolute BS.

For the sake of this discussion:

HDMI is a transmission spec - not a resolution spec - exactly the same as DVI. There is no specific limitation to what aspect ratio signal it will pass (within the physical bandwidth limitations of the cable itself).It'll run at 1280x720 or 1920x1080i Again, HDMI/DVI does not determine the aspect ratio or resolution of the signal. The connected equipment (ie. STB, DVD player, PC, etc.) determines that!

The folly of your argument is demonstrated by plugging a DVI-HDMI adapter into the DVI socket on your PC which you have set to output 1366x768. Then use an HDMI cable to go from that adapter to the display. Guess what!? The HDMI cable will pass the same 1366x768 signal as the DVI cable! Duh?!

Whether the cable is a DVI or an HDMI has NOTHING to do with the aspect ratio or resolution of the video signal passing through it!
The 768P panel outputs 1366x768 1:1 pixel mapping1:1 pixel-mapping requires that the source and display resolution match (on a "1:1 basis" - duh!) There is no native video program source that has a 1366x768 resolution (other than a PC desktop, which is not a program source). Therefore there is no such thing as 1:1 pixel-mapping at 1366x768. Period.

If the panel is 768p, and view a 720p broadcast signal, you cannot get 1:1 mapping.That is exactly what I said in the first place!The *1080i* displays cannot do 1:1 mapping when viewing 1080i(1920x1080i) broadcast signal. You are stretching the screen.:confused: Huh?

You'll have to try and explain yourself on that one!I think you are getting confused with the Broadcast signals and the 1:1 mapping of the TV.As I have been designing broadcast equipment for over 40 years, I think I might have some insight on this topic.

And your background is ... ? (Your profile says you are 3. I believe it.)

Absolute BS.
No..... your statements are BS.


HDMI is a transmission spec - not a resolution spec - exactly the same as DVI. There is no specific limitation to what aspect ratio signal it will pass (within the physical bandwidth limitations of the cable itself).Again, HDMI/DVI does not determine the aspect ratio or resolution of the signal. The source equipment (ie. STB, DVD player, PC, etc.) determines that!
Both the HDMI and DVI are digital. But when you connect via HDMI from PC to the display you cannot get the native resolution of the 1366x768 TV, *period*. The HDMI interface is only limited to deliver 480p, 720p, 1080i/p video, not the computer resolutions. 1:1 pixel mapping is critical and is very useful on a computer resolution to display on the panel for providing clearest and sharpest images and texts. No matter what equipment you use you cannot get native res of the 768p when you use HDMI. You need to stop get yourself confused with HDMI is better than DVI or DVI is better than HDMI in terms of PQ. You are imagining this yourself, not me. :)


The folly of your argument is demonstrated by plugging a DVI-HDMI adapter into the DVI socket on your PC which you have set to output 1366x768. Then use an HDMI cable to go from that adapter to the display. Guess what!? The HDMI cable will pass the same 1366x768 signal as the DVI cable! Duh?!
That is not recommended for those who aim *PQ*. There will be some loss of PQ when you use adapter like that. Even though both HDMI and DVI are digital you are still going through some level of conversion which degrades IQ and TQ.


Whether the cable is a DVI or an HDMI has NOTHING to do with the aspect ratio or resolution of the video signal passing through it!1:1 pixel-mapping requires that the source and display resolution match (on a "1:1 basis" - duh!)
Have you seen how the texts look when you run HDMI cable from PC to the 768P panel? You will find that the texts will be un-even across the screen. One of the most common thing you will notice is the *softness*. I would have to be pretty damn stupid to use HDMI cable from my PC to the display. That is what I would not do most.;)

That is exactly what I said in the first place!:confused: Huh?
That is what I have been saying in the first place. Huh?:)


Quote by cheez - The *1080i* displays cannot do 1:1 mapping when viewing 1080i(1920x1080i) broadcast signal. You are stretching the screen.
Quote by cavu -
Huh?

You'll have to try and explain yourself on that one!
You don't know what 1080i TV is?... YOU are the one said "1080i TV"!!!. I hope you even know what 1080i TV really is. If you don't, you wouldn't understand what the hell I've said in that quote. i will give you 30 minutes to think about it.

You'll have to try and explain yourself on that one!As I have been designing broadcast equipment for over 40 years, I think I might have some insight on this topic.
No you don't... as you don't seem to understand how video signals get displayed from PC to the display panel. Experienced in designing broadcast equipment for 40 years doesn't mean jack nothing if you don't know about connection interfaces and how the video resolutions get displayed to the TV when using PC. You seem to know one thing, but not other areas.(hint: computers). I am not surprised you don't know how this really works in real-world. Don't get over-confident just because you have 40 years of designing *broadcast equipment*.

And your background is ... ? (Your profile says you are 3. I believe it.)
.... Oh, now you want to get personal? Insults eh? If you are shivering just say so. You don't need to be starting with the personal attacks.

IamAnoobieCheez added to my twit filter. Bye bye.

IamAnoobieCheez added to my twit filter. Bye bye.


Cavu, if anyone is a twit and mis-informed it is you. Cheez has been using 1.1 pixel matching on his 768p Panasonic professional display.

Yes for the most part DVI and HDMI are the same (in video quality terms), but not always as the connected equipment also has a say in this. This link displays a chart which shows the Panasonic professional display does support 1366 x 768 by its DVI input, it does not support this resolution using its HDMI input brochures/B_TH-PH10Series.pdf (ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_TH-PH10Series.pdf)

Also, yes we are talking about 1.1 pixel matching by using a computer to output 1366 x 768 to the displays 1366 x 768 native resolution.

WOW!

.......

1:1 pixel mapping is especially important for when connecting the display to your PC. That way video you play from your PC will be scaled up or down to your native res. by the video card, and also text\web or games running at that native res. will look at its best. Same principle like how you run your LCD monitors at the native resolution for the sharpest picture.

I know most TVs, like the new consumer Panasonic displays without VGA inputs, that only have an HDMI connection cannot get 1:1 display from a PC source(unless the TV is 1080p) even when using DVI-HDMI adapters.

the Panasonic professional display does support 1366 x 768 by its DVI input, it does not support this resolution using its HDMI inputThis is clearly a "Panasonic" limitation and has nothing to do with HDMI or DVI capabilities, per se.

So his assertion should be that the:

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".

we are talking about 1.1 pixel matching by using a computer to output 1366 x 768 to the displays 1366 x 768 native resolution.What you are referring to is actually "pixel-matching", not "1:1 pixel-matching", a subtlety lost on many people.

This is clearly a "Panasonic" limitation and has nothing to do with HDMI or DVI capabilities, per se.

So his assertion should be that the:

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".



Actually it is a Panasonic professional benefit, most displays are not capable of this resolution input at all. It has nothing to do with DVI or HDMI cable capabilities but the available input capabilities of current displays. Also 1366 x 768 output to a 1366 x768 native resolution display is 1:1 pixel matching, matching each pixel one to one without any need to up or down convert.

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".


This is a correct statement. This is also true with other manufacturers, not just Panasonic. It is an extrapolation to say that HDMI doesn't support anything other than the standard resolutions. This is terribly incorrect. HDMI has the bandwidth to support various resolutions. The limitations occur on the hardware ends, not in the actual interface itself.

This is clearly a "Panasonic" limitation and has nothing to do with HDMI or DVI capabilities, per se.

So his assertion should be that the:

'Panasonic does not support 1366x768 on its HDMI port"

NOT

"HDMI does not support 1366x768".

It's the SAME damn thing....

It's not the TV's fault. It's the limitation of the HDMI interface itself does not allow 1366 x 768 1:1 mapping on the 768P panel. Don't go try blaming on the other hardware.

Also, when you use DVI port of the video card from the PC, and use DVI-HDMI adaptor the signal is driving from the DVI interface so ofcourse you can get 1366 x 768. If you run the HDMI equipped video card to the TV then you'll get stuck with the 720p and 1080i signal.. that's what the HDMI is meant to provide, not the computer res. So it don't freakin ass matter what you should blame. The bottom line is what we have now, the DVI supports 1366 x 768 1:1 pixel mapping. Understand? There are no buts and if's about it.


And like what RichGuy has said, I have been running 1:1 square pixel mapping on my 768p plasma with *DVI-D* connection. It works the best.


;)

Oh.... and I said this many times before but I'll say it again.

I have never seen in my life that the HDMI puts out as clear, razor sharp, and perfectly even texts across the entire screen as I get on my DVI-D setup. I always see un-even texts and a little bit of blurriness on the HDMI w/ 768p display. That is because it's NOT running in 1:1 pixel mapping.

That is the bottom line, *what* gives the user what he/she wants, 1:1 pixel ass mapping in this case. ;)

Cheez,

Do you use TY-42TM6D in your Panny 7UY for DVI-D?
For some reason in the link RichGuy posted 1366x768 is supported by DVI card for PF models only.

Cheez,

Do you use TY-42TM6D in your Panny 7UY for DVI-D?
For some reason in the link RichGuy posted 1366x768 is supported by DVI card for PF models only.

Sorry, that was the new 10UK brochure I posted and it must have changed, here is the 9UK brochure as you can see 1366 x 768 is supported @60Hz

ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/Drivers/PBTS/brochures/B_TH-9Series.pdf

Cheez,

Do you use TY-42TM6D in your Panny 7UY for DVI-D?
For some reason in the link RichGuy posted 1366x768 is supported by DVI card for PF models only.
Yes.

I have been using the TY-42TM6D on my TH-50PHD7UY.

It supports 1366 x 768 1:1 pixel mapping.


As RichGuy mentioned earlier, yes I tried TY-42TM6D on my 9UK as well a while back. 1366 x 768 1:1 mapping.

It's not the TV's fault. It's the limitation of the HDMI interface itself does not allow 1366 x 768 1:1 mapping on the 768P panel. Don't go try blaming on the other hardware.

What the h*** are you talking about. HDMI (from an interface standpoint) has absolutely nothing to do with a 768p panel displaying a signal 1:1. 1:1 refers to a display's ability to display a signal (matching the display's native resolution) without additional processing. The problem you keep ranting on about has to do with the fact that most displays HDMI ports do NOT support 1366x768. This is a hardware compatibility issue. It has NOTHING to do with HDMI's ability to transmit a 1366x768 signal, much less in 1:1 (the last part is done on the display side).

An analogy to what you are trying to say is that because most 2006 1080p displays had overscan (i.e. no option for 1:1 pixel mapping) that if DVI was used instead of HDMI, that the displays could suddenly display a signal in 1:1. Not only is this illogical, it is completely incorrect. You are confusing two separate issues but related issues.

So, do any of these displays support it either through HDMI or DVI: Panasonic 700, Panasonic 10UK, Pioneer 6070, Pioneer 6010?

Wow what a discussion. Great info being passed along.

Chris

Off the top of my head, the Panasonic 700s and the Pioneer 6010 support 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI.

It is called HD Size 2 under the picture menu on the Panasonics. I'm not sure the exact name for the 1:1 mode on the Pioneer is.

Strictly speaking, the HDMI and DVI interface use the same electrical interface and serial wire protocol. The physical connector is obviously different, but that can be easily overcome with an adapter.

However, practically speaking, that's just about where the similarities end. Why? Because few HDMI implementations support PC signal support like most DVI implementations do. DVI was, as we know, conceived as a computer video interface. HDMI was born out of that sometime after as a consumer electronics video signal interface. I believe that if we put our minds together we might be able to list a half dozen displays of any type that support PC resolutions over HDMI. Does anyone disagree?

The above does not repeal the fact that 'Cheez can sometimes speak in a style that of language that intermixes fact with ill conceived notion and impression. But lets forgive that for a moment to move the discussion forward.

If you want 1:1 you need, for starters, an interface to your display that can carry signals at its native spatial resolution. Where 58" or 60" flat panels are concerned, that resolution is going to be 1920x1080 or 1366x768 (unless you are speaking about a 5-years-old LG or Zenith branded 60" with 1280x720 resolution - but I will assume you are not). For a 1920x1080 resolution panel, you will likely find HDMI to be sufficient to carry the native signal. For a 1366x768 panel, in practice, HDMI will not support the signal and you will need either DVI or VGA (analog RGB). Furthermore, if you want true 1:1 you will need a display that can set the overscan to zero, and/or can simply disable scaling altogether.

In conclusion The following current generation displays should suffice:

720p (1366x768):
Panasonic TH-58PF10UK
Panasonic TH-58PF10UKA
Pioneer PDP-607CMX

1080p (1920x1080):
Pioneer PDP-6010HD
Pioneer PRO-150FD
Panasonic TH-58PZ700U
Panasonic TH-58PZ750U

In conclusion The following current generation displays should suffice:

720p (1366x768):
Panasonic TH-58PF10UK
Panasonic TH-58PF10UKA
Pioneer PDP-607CMX

1080p (1920x1080):
Pioneer PDP-6010HD
Pioneer PRO-150FD
Panasonic TH-58PZ700U
Panasonic TH-58PZ750U


In your list the 720p (1366x768) Panasonics should be the PH models, TH-58PH10UK and TH-58PH10UKA, not PF. Also this list applies only to the 58 inch size.

What about the Pioneer 6070?

Excellent conversation. It would be very useful to have a list of confirmed current displays that can display native rate with zero overscan in 50" sizes as well.

To cavo: I can assure you while HDMI should be able to connect at native rate, I have had no luck getting it to do so on several different 1366 x 768 panels. I have had to resort to using the analog HD15 on my display and the results are fair using a lumagen scaler.

Larry is right ... to a point.

BUT interlaced signals (480i/1080i) have to be deinterlaced SOMEWHERE to be viewed on a digital display, so it becomes a matter of which video processor does the better job: the source (ie. STB, DVD, etc.) or the display.

Many aficienados prefer using the "raw" native 480i digital output from their DVD player and let the display processor do the work.
For sure deinterlacing has to happen. But when ones spends good money on an external scaler, having the display do further (damage) is usually not desired. That was my point. You should have seen the hullabaloo here about 5 years ago when some folks found out that they could not completely bypass the video processing (AVM) in the Fujitsu P50s. :) Mark remembers, and I sure Ken does also (and a few others).

larry

In your list the 720p (1366x768) Panasonics should be the PH models, TH-58PH10UK and TH-58PH10UKA, not PF. Also this list applies only to the 58 inch size.

Absolutely correct, I was in a bit of a hurry and accidental wrote F instead of H. Regarding the size, I specifically mentioned only those sizes because that is what the OP asked for.

However, practically speaking, that's just about where the similarities end. Why? Because few HDMI implementations support PC signal support like most DVI implementations do. DVI was, as we know, conceived as a computer video interface. HDMI was born out of that sometime after as a consumer electronics video signal interface. I believe that if we put our minds together we might be able to list a half dozen displays of any type that support PC resolutions over HDMI. Does anyone disagree?


There are dozens, maybe hundreds of displays that will accept PC resolutions over HDMI. I would even say that most new TVs will do this.

Here's a few examples: my Vizio plasma will accept its native resolution of 1024x768 over HDMI. That's obviously not a standard video resolution. The inexpensive Hannspree LCD that I used to own would accept virtually any resolution over HDMI, including 1360x768. My parents' Samsung 71 LCD will accept just about anything over HDMI as well.

It's really just incorrect to ever say that HDMI won't accept anything other than normal HD resolutions. In a year or two it'll be hard to find any new TV that isn't flexible enough to take PC-style resolutions over HDMI.

There are dozens, maybe hundreds of displays that will accept PC resolutions over HDMI. I would even say that most new TVs will do this.

I can say with certainty that no Panasonic or Pioneer model can support this resolution via HDMI. I have seen countless, countless posts on these forums from people with displays from any number of manufacturers - all finding the same thing about the new displays they've purchased.

However, I acknowledge there are some that do. I said half a dozen. You gave 3. Got three more? :)

It's really just incorrect to ever say that HDMI won't accept anything other than normal HD resolutions.

It isn't if you are talking about a display that specifically does not, which incidentally includes all those I listed above.

In a year or two it'll be hard to find any new TV that isn't flexible enough to take PC-style resolutions over HDMI.

Could very well be. Although to me that it is largely senseless. You really only need one input, maybe two, that can connect a computer at non-HD resolutions. Soon displays will have 4-6 HDMI ports. No need to connect 4-6 computers at resolutions not equal to 1920x1080 (which will be the native resolution of most displays by then), since most modern computers can happily connect at 1080p (1920x1080 @60Hz).

Neither HDMI nor DVI can hold a candle to that all-powerful of video standards: S-Video!

:D

What is this? Do any of the 58" or 60" sets do this?

Samsung 74/84 series Plasma (FPT5084/5884/6374) do 1:1 under the 'Just Scan' setting.

O

Isn't this all a moot point anyway, given that TV and CATV broadcasts must typically be overscanned a litte to hide "signal garbage" on the top edge of the screen?

So even if you're feeding 1920x1080 into a 1920x1080 display, you're going to have to apply some overscan anyway, and there goes your pixel perfect mapping.

Neg. Digital Channels are exactly the proper definition and thus bennefit from no overscan.

Also, HDM sources provide definition correct outputs.

Neg. Digital Channels are exactly the proper definition and thus bennefit from no overscan.

Also, HDM sources provide definition correct outputs.

If only this were always true. Some HD channels still benefit from overscan, especially if it's an SD program broadcast on an HD channel. Hopefully overscan will become truly unnecessary soon.

If only this were always true. Some HD channels still benefit from overscan, especially if it's an SD program broadcast on an HD channel. Hopefully overscan will become truly unnecessary soon.

Yes, that is correct - SD broadcast as HD can display extrenous signal... I should have been more specific.

I can say with certainty that no Panasonic or Pioneer model can support this resolution via HDMI. I have seen countless, countless posts on these forums from people with displays from any number of manufacturers - all finding the same thing about the new displays they've purchased.

However, I acknowledge there are some that do. I said half a dozen. You gave 3. Got three more? :)

I named those three because they're really the only non-CRT HDTVs I've ever had extensive experience with. And if the Samsung 71 will take PC resolutions over HDMI, I'm guessing that the 65's and 81's will as well. Then you have the Westinghouse LCDs, which made their reputation by being flexible with PC signals even when that wasn't a standard feature.

Anyway, this is extremely common in the LCD world. The bigger challenge would probably be to name new TVs that don't support PC resolutions via HDMI. For whatever reasons the big plasma manufacturers lag behind in this respect.


Could very well be. Although to me that it is largely senseless. You really only need one input, maybe two, that can connect a computer at non-HD resolutions. Soon displays will have 4-6 HDMI ports. No need to connect 4-6 computers at resolutions not equal to 1920x1080 (which will be the native resolution of most displays by then), since most modern computers can happily connect at 1080p (1920x1080 @60Hz).

There's no reason to limit the flexibility of a TV's inputs. My plasma has two sources connected at PC-style resolutions -- the Xbox 360 (outputting 1024x768 to match the set's native res) and my PC. I've never seen a TV with more than one VGA input, so you'd really need to have a PC-friendly HDMI port for this.

Isn't this all a moot point anyway, given that TV and CATV broadcasts must typically be overscanned a litte to hide "signal garbage" on the top edge of the screen?

So even if you're feeding 1920x1080 into a 1920x1080 display, you're going to have to apply some overscan anyway, and there goes your pixel perfect mapping.Well, regardless what others may say, in order to do 1:1 pixel mapping (Native Resolution or Native Rate) you have to give the display a full frame that can just be placed in the frame buffer and used on the next refresh cycle(s). 1080i isn't a full frame, so you wouldn't be getting 1:1 anyway.

1:1 pixel mapping isn't <source pixels>:<display pixels>, it's <input frame pixels>:<display pixels>.

larry

Well, regardless what others may say, in order to do 1:1 pixel mapping (Native Resolution or Native Rate) you have to give the display a full frame that can just be placed in the frame buffer and used on the next refresh cycle(s). 1080i isn't a full frame, so you wouldn't be getting 1:1 anyway.

1:1 pixel mapping isn't <source pixels>:<display pixels>, it's <input frame pixels>:<display pixels>.

larry

The TV will combine two fields into a frame before displaying it, so you're going to get 1:1 mapping even with a 1080i signal.

Anyway, this is extremely common in the LCD world. The bigger challenge would probably be to name new TVs that don't support PC resolutions via HDMI. For whatever reasons the big plasma manufacturers lag behind in this respect.

Maybe. Still, we are in the plasma forum, specifically. Can you name any plasma's other than Vizio that accept PC resolutions over HDMI? Probably a few, sure - and I'd honestly be curious to know what they are. Now, how 'bout some that fit the OP's criteria? I think there are none.

I do acknowledge that my original statement was a bit too strong. Most of my knowledge is with respect to plasmas, though, so I felt pretty confident about the info in the context of the topic of this forum. I should have qualified it more precisely however.

There's no reason to limit the flexibility of a TV's inputs. My plasma has two sources connected at PC-style resolutions -- the Xbox 360 (outputting 1024x768 to match the set's native res) and my PC.

The reason to limit them is to not incur the added costs, though they won't necessarily be large. Soon, plasmas with a 1024x768 resolution will be a thing of the past.

I've never seen a TV with more than one VGA input, so you'd really need to have a PC-friendly HDMI port for this.

FWIW, Panasonic commercial displays could have up to 4 VGA inputs if one so chose.

Wow. There is a lot of mis-information in this thread.

As far as the OP is concerned, the Sammy 5884 (58" 1080p) will do a 1:1 pixel ratio (Just Scan mode). I believe that all current gen 1080p plasmas have a 1:1 mode.

My Sammy 5084 (50" 1080p plasma) has accepted any PC resolution I've thrown at it over HDMI, so far. I have, for example, done fullscreen PC gaming using a 1024x768 rez, as well as various other rez's on up to 1920x1080 on the tv.

Achieving a 1:1 pixel ratio has absolutely nothing to do with the HDMI cable, but has everything to do with the hardware on either end. Its all about the panel rez, the processor, firmware in the tv. DVI and HDMI are both digital video cables; both have the bandwidth to transmit 1080p as well as any rez below 1080p. They both transmit the same 1's and 0's! One will not 'look better' than another!

Someone mentioned that using a DVI-HDMI adapter will somehow degrade or change the signal. Completely false. There is no processing or conversion taking place inside the cable (lol). Same 1's and 0's are being transmitted.

Master list of LCD/PLASMA with 1:1 pixel mapping:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748074

The TV will combine two fields into a frame before displaying it, so you're going to get 1:1 mapping even with a 1080i signal.We're talking about 2 different things. Sending native resolution (NR) to the display (aka 1:1 pixel mapping in the display) is matching the input signal with the native resolution of the display (size and refresh rate). Also, with 1080i you can't be guaranteed that the 1920x1080 captured image and sent as 1080i is reconstructed as the actual captured frame due to video processing in the display. If people want to think of 1:1 pixel mapping meaning the absence of scaling, we'll that's up to them, but it's a really a misnomer for what 1:1 pixel mapping really is and why people do it. Sort of like nowadays any panel thats not 1080p NR is 720p. There has never been a 720p NR (1280x720) plasma made. I guess Best Buy and Circuit City schools of video info are taking over. :)

larry

My Sammy 5084 (50" 1080p plasma) has accepted any PC resolution I've thrown at it over HDMI, so far. I have, for example, done fullscreen PC gaming using a 1024x768 rez, as well as various other rez's on up to 1920x1080 on the tv.

Good to know that, thanks for the info.

They both transmit the same 1's and 0's! One will not 'look better' than another!

OT, but strictly speaking, DVI cannot to YUV color and therefore will not always be able to transmit the same 1's and 0's as HDMI. DVI, in fact, will only provide a subset of HDMI functionality in that regard. This could be significant if the source material is YUV and the playback device is not good at converting to RGB.

There has never been a 720p NR (1280x720) plasma made.

http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-P60W26P-Plasma-Flat-Panel-HDTV/dp/B00006HCJN

Neg. Digital Channels are exactly the proper definition and thus bennefit from no overscan.

Also, HDM sources provide definition correct outputs.

Uhmmm, depends on the source. DirecTV is notorious for down-resing 1080i to 1280x1080i, the so called HD Lite. Dish does similar things, as do a lot of the cable Cos.

Add to this all the variations of prior to broadcast processing of the content, and it's a bloody mess.

Uhmmm, depends on the source. DirecTV is notorious for down-resing 1080i to 1280x1080i, the so called HD Lite. Dish does similar things, as do a lot of the cable Cos.

Aff - I should have quoted the original post in my reply. I was referring to the statement that 1920x1080 needed to be overscanned so that 1:1 pixel mapping was not necessary rather that making a blanket broadcast HDTV source statement - sorry for any confusion.

why do they make plasmas(lcds even) a non standard resolution? It doesn't make any sense to me? Why would they make it so that pretty much any normal signal fed to it require scaling? I would actually prefer a 1280x720p plasma as then no high def would have to be upscaled just some downscaled a bit.

with that non standard resolution everything you send to the plasma must be scaled as nothing has that weird resolution of 1366 or whatever. Makes no sense to me. Our current tv has that stupid resolution of 1366 also and it doesn't allow 1:1 pixel mapping.

wow, thanks gang for the great laugh this afternoon.

this was a fun read. :D

i own the pio 5070 and was bummed out after finding i couldn't map 1:1 over hdmi with my htpc. if i would have just done a bit more research, i would have known. not saying it would have swayed my decision and i'm very happy with the panel, but it would have saved me some time and grief. the good news is that vga to the pio is a whole lot better than vga to a projector. :)

Will the Panasonic 5810UK do it?

Will the Panasonic 5810UK do it?

58PH10UK[A] supports 1:1 pixel mapping with optional DVI-D board.