I will probably get assassinated on this thread as I am no home theater expert but I do hope for some insightful feed back from those trying to have decent results in multipurpose rooms opposed to the lucky ones who have dedicated theaters. I currently have a 42" plasma in my family room and desperately want to go bigger. The battle I face is ambient lighting and reflections on the glass screen. I have the ability to black out the windows in the room, but the wall opposite the screen...well, there is no wall. It is wide open to the kitchen, entry and dining, thus all of the reflection issues on a plasma. I know I have to accept compromises, just having a hard time in getting straight answers from local a/v people. They seem bent only on what they have on display and don't seem to want to lay out all the options which makes me question their true knowledge of all the options. I am looking for an all purpose display. Plasma works, except reflections and size limitations. Projectors deal with reflections and can give me the size i want but ambient lighting and longevity are concerns of mine. I am hoping there are a number of PJ owners out there that are accomplishing what i hope to by using a PJ for everday viewing (kids shows, soaps during day thus picture just has to be decent). Help?

If you are a soap opera, daytime tv watcher and you have light issues I would steer away from a PJ.

I have a Marantz PJ as my only display and it is in my living room. I watch football all day sat. and sunday but the rest of my viewing is at night.
There are PJ's that are bright enough to deal with ambient light but it does slightly wash out the picture, especially if it directly hits the screen as opposed to just filling the room.

Question....you say you can control the light, but then say the back wall is open to the kitchen leading to light reflecting off of your plasma? If the back wall is open to the next room how are yopu getting light reflections all the way back to the front wall of your living room?

Correction, my wife and kids are the soap & cartoon watchers. I usually watch sports, discovery, DVD's. Most of my viewing is in the eveing thus ambient light is not so much an issue for me. I can black out the windows in the viewing room to avoid direct sunlight or intense ambient light in the room. However the back of the room is wide open to the house and there are windows, lights (44 recessed lights in ceiling), shiny appliances, etc...that reflect off my plasma screen. What I have explained to various AV people (2 have been to my house) is that i don't want to be a prisoner in my home to closing every curtain and shutting off all the lights through out the house just to watch tv. I don't mind controlling the lights and windows in the viewing room, but the rest of hte house has to live 'normal'.

I meant the household, not just you personally.

Seeing something reflected off a turned off glass screen is not the same as reflection off a running display.

You will have to decide then. I do not black out my place either....but I do control any light that bounces off or directly hits the screen. But I did that with my 50" Sammy 1080p DLP RPTV as well.
What I'm saying is it doesn't have to be movie theater dark to watch, but it will look best in that enviroment.

So if your family can either control a little of the light during the day and/or live with a little washing, then, imo, there is nothing like a 100"+ HD screen from a quality PJ. Just blows away a t.v.

I don't suppose you could post a picture of the room during the daytime?

When my plasma is on, a Panasonic of which i have been told is very reflective due to multiple layers of glass, one can still see the reflections in the background. I would definitely control any direct light off the screen, we currently do with the plasma because the glare would be too much. My contention all along with the a/v 'experts' that i have dealt with has been that daytime tv just has to be 'watchable'. They insisted that any ambient light was going to be a huge problem. I might note that the reason i started thinking PJ was through the ISF tech who calibrated my current set. He said i am a strong candidate and that ambient light wouldn't be as bad an issue as i might initially have thought. Are there ways to measure ambient light (as a DIY) and somehow relate that to lumen output requirements/comparisons? I know this is all subjective but there has to be some standard of measure and reference for this.

i will attempt to do so this weekend.

If you already control any direct light to the screen you will be fine with a PJ of any brightness.
Especially since it will be at the least decent to watch. Remember, the size can make up for small detriments.(also, there is no reflective glass to a PJ screen)
Right now I am watching PSU-Temple in my living room with a floor to wall window wide open and a skylight in my kitchen open.(I too have an adjoining, non-walled kitchen to my living room).
None of the light directly hits the screen though, but my romm is bright.

If you want to say what you are willing to spend, what specifics you are looking for, and wether or not you see rainbows on DLP's I can help with reccomendations. Reliability depends on the brand.

I have never experienced the rainbow effect, thus don't foresee it being an issue. I am looking to go budget. I am planning on a goo screen due to the kid factor. I would cry long and hard if a firehawk 3 had a lego put thru it. I have been looking at the Optoma 7300 for the detached proc and HMDI switching but can't find ANY proffesional reviews. The AX200u seems hot, but new and unproven. The Mitsu 1500 is one that i have viewed in a showroom under less than perfect conditions and thought was fine. My receiver does not have HDMI switching or scaling, i will get a $99 DVD with HDMI out, thus the Optoma 7300 simplify's things greatly for connectivity. Video game is currently a Gamecube with prog scan output to component soon to be a Wii (santa). PJ would be mounted in soffit that is 13'-8" from screen surface. Ceilling is 8'-6" thus PJ would likely be 7'-6"ish A.F.F. Hoping for 90"-100" screen. Viewing is 10' from screen. My couch is in the middle of the room, notagainst a wall (no wall anyway). Room is 16'x24' with the screen in the center of hte 24' wall.

The Panny and the Mitsu are both light cannons that still look good. So they would be good choices.
Don't know much about the Optoma.
Am I then thinking right that you are willing to spend up to ~$1,100 for just the PJ?

I would spend up to $2k if it was an marked improvement over $1k or $1500. One other factor is that i will have the PJ calibrated by my ISF tech. After the wonders he worked on my lowly Panny 42" 480p set, i am a huge believer in prof calib. I have friends with 1080p's who don't believe me when i tell them my set is 480p, not 720p. I am more interested in a solid perfomer that produces a quality image than raw spec's. Any experience or opinion on Goo screen?

Oooooh, then there are 2-1080p's you should look into that just broke the $2K barrier. Now, how much improvement there is between them and a quality 720p I do not know.

No experience but with your kids running around(no kids here) I would want the protection too. There are DIY screens just as good that you can adda topcoat to for protection that cost much less. Check out the DIY screen forum both here and on home theater shack.

If you click my name in this thread and search for more posts you will find a thread I started asking the best 720p PJ's under $1500 for a great list of possibilities. It may be a couple pages back now, but you could also check the undser $3K PJ forum as its' probably on the first page still.

I'm going to check it again as well before I give you a persoanlized list of my opinion.

Hi houseofmouse,

I would recommend an LCD TV for your situation. They cope best with reflections and ambient light and they are easier for the kids (and wife?) to use.

If you have you heart set on a projector, then you are looking in the right direction. You want bright, remember that the white of your screen is the darkest shade of black that can be displayed. I would go for the smallest screen you can live with and make it grey.

Why the smallest he can live with?

The image will be less washed out

Sure, but that may not be an issue depending on his real room enviroment and on which PJ he gets, no?
The reason I say this is because if you go the PJ route, it is almost completely reccomended to go as big as you can.

how about: sell plasma, get similar size lcd flat panel, unless u can get better ambient light control (control reflections); get whichever pj; and im thinking a pulldown (electric or manual) 100" or whichever, screen, ceiling mounted in front of flat panel, to be lowered for pj use.

use flat panel for daytime viewing, pj for evenings. pj for daytime football on sat and sun, of course!

I'm back. To answer the LCD option. 52" is the size limitation (without spending more than i can afford to go larger). Truthfully, 75"-90" will feel huge and adequate to me for viewing size. The 42" panny will go to my bedroom once I end up with a new living room solution. I fixed screen will suffice since a pulldown would most likely never get retracted.

Oooooh, then there are 2-1080p's you should look into that just broke the $2K barrier. Now, how much improvement there is between them and a quality 720p I do not know.

No experience but with your kids running around(no kids here) I would want the protection too. There are DIY screens just as good that you can adda topcoat to for protection that cost much less. Check out the DIY screen forum both here and on home theater shack.

If you click my name in this thread and search for more posts you will find a thread I started asking the best 720p PJ's under $1500 for a great list of possibilities. It may be a couple pages back now, but you could also check the undser $3K PJ forum as its' probably on the first page still.

I'm going to check it again as well before I give you a persoanlized list of my opinion.
With regards to some of the newer 1080p's vs established 720 p's is a dilemma for me. It's seems safer in the world of electronics to go with a proven winner vs. the Johnny come lately. Not to mention, things always get better, cheaper and faster in electronics. 1st wave of any electronics is not for me.

Sure, but that may not be an issue depending on his real room enviroment and on which PJ he gets, no?
The reason I say this is because if you go the PJ route, it is almost completely reccomended to go as big as you can.

I would respectfully disagree with this. The biggest screen size is usually limited by the light output of the projector - too big = too dim. With ambient light more brightness is needed. In a completelty dark room the minimum is around 13 fL (foot lamberts) rising to a minimun of 22 for some light. Even bright projectors like the Ax100 are cutting it fine here with a 100" screen. The entry level 1080p projectors won't do it.

And most PJ's are 'more' than bright enough for a big screen in a room with some ambient light.

Do you have experience with these numbers or are you just repeating what you've read?

I have had a couple PJ's and that rule of thumb is just that. I am by the calc. at ~13fl and can watch sports all day long with the shades open.
Most PJ's are more than bright enough as long as you don't get direct light hitting the screen.

By the way I am using a 110" screen with my Marantz and have never had to leave 'Eco lamp mode'.

I will probably get assassinated on this thread as I am no home theater expert but I do hope for some insightful feed back from those trying to have decent results in multipurpose rooms opposed to the lucky ones who have dedicated theaters. I currently have a 42" plasma in my family room and desperately want to go bigger. The battle I face is ambient lighting and reflections on the glass screen. I have the ability to black out the windows in the room, but the wall opposite the screen...well, there is no wall. It is wide open to the kitchen, entry and dining, thus all of the reflection issues on a plasma. I know I have to accept compromises, just having a hard time in getting straight answers from local a/v people. They seem bent only on what they have on display and don't seem to want to lay out all the options which makes me question their true knowledge of all the options. I am looking for an all purpose display. Plasma works, except reflections and size limitations. Projectors deal with reflections and can give me the size i want but ambient lighting and longevity are concerns of mine. I am hoping there are a number of PJ owners out there that are accomplishing what i hope to by using a PJ for everday viewing (kids shows, soaps during day thus picture just has to be decent). Help?

There in lies the problem. PJs should augment the viewing experience. They are in their element with movies where they have no equal. TMO.

And most PJ's are 'more' than bright enough for a big screen in a room with some ambient light.

Do you have experience with these numbers or are you just repeating what you've read?

I have had a couple PJ's and that rule of thumb is just that. I am by the calc. at ~13fl and can watch sports all day long with the shades open.
Most PJ's are more than bright enough as long as you don't get direct light hitting the screen.

By the way I am using a 110" screen with my Marantz and have never had to leave 'Eco lamp mode'.

Its great that you are happy with these light levels. There really is nothing to beat the large screen experience.

However, both from personal experience (I started by bringing commercial projectors home from work 8 years ago and have owned AE300, AE500, AE700, AE900 and currently have a Projectiondesign model 1 Mk3) and what I have read, I believe 13 fL with ambient light is too low.

Light really destroys the PQ and the bigger the screen, the worse this is.

This is especially the case for the OP if I understand his setup correctly where he wants to view during the day with light from windows in an adjacent room.

Houseofmouse, I recommend you make sure you will be happy with by viewing a projector in a similar situation to yours. Preferably by watching at a friends house, buying a projector with right of return if you are unhappy, or in a showroom with similar ambient light.

Well, his family does the daytime viewing, but that is besides the point.
It is not that I'm happy or unhappy, just letting you know what levels of ambient light I have and the calculated fl at screen are more than just acceptable.
It is not like I haven't owned a t.v. before and just don't realize something.

I think many go by that calc. and it is deceiving. At 13fl it is more than watchable with miday sun filling the room. And I like a little overstaurated picture. the key being that none of the ambient light hits the screen directly.

He also said it only needs to be watchable for the family's daytime viewing as movies and HD programming will be watched at night.

There are situations where I would not reccomend a PJ, but those are few and far between.




House of mouse.....if you can definitley post those pics when you get a chance.

He also said it only needs to be watchable for the family's daytime viewing as movies and HD programming will be watched at night.

He said: "kids shows, soaps during day thus picture just has to be decent"

What I have explained to various AV people (2 have been to my house) is that i don't want to be a prisoner in my home to closing every curtain and shutting off all the lights through out the house just to watch tv.

May I ask what the AV people that came to your house said?

He said: "kids shows, soaps during day thus picture just has to be decent"

How is that different from what I said? If you read his one post he said it's his wife and kids watching in the daytime...not that it matters.

Watchable is same as decent.

Why not just keep the current TV AND get a projector? Kids and wife can still watch TV during day and you can use projector at night

How is that different from what I said? If you read his one post he said it's his wife and kids watching in the daytime...not that it matters.

Watchable is same as decent.
Okay guys. I am chuckling at the banter over my verbage. By 'decent' daytime viewing I am referencing the fact that it is mostly soaps and kids shows. By my definition, not very critical viewing material to get all worried about PQ over. However, HD shows, movies and sports are more important and mostly are viewed at night when ambient light is not a problem. I do like to sit down to watch movies, sports and HD channels when the little ones are in bed or when we watch family movies. Thus, i do care to some extent about actual PJ performance for quality. However, i also want something with enough oomph (lumens?) to handle daytime tv adequately. It seems that sports aren't an issue as i am assuming black levels are as prevolent as in movies. I will get those pics up...by the way, how do i post pics?

May I ask what the AV people that came to your house said?
The ISF tech who calibrated my plasma 2 yrs ago was the one telling me to go PJ. One local av chain came out and still insisted anything but a dedicated theater room with no light issues would be unnacceptable, thus they would not sell me a PJ and install it because they were sure i would be dissatisfied. Mind you this was a chain store, not some esoteric av shop selling stuff that i would have to mortgage my house for. The other one said to go with an LCD set, but 52" isn't an acceptable size to me. I want to go big and want good performance, understanding ambient light will detractg from the overall performance. I also understand a sub $2k PJ wont do what a $50k PJ will do either. So far, I trust my ISF tech who first recommended a PJ. He is the only one to produce tangible results for his opinions vs. the showroom guys.

One of my other questions beyond PQ is life expectancy. I know bulbs can be replaced, but realistically, how long can i plan on keeping the PJ? A lot of the posts i have read make me think it is a 12 mo. commitment at best, it bit to fast for my pace.

Other than the life expectancy of polarizers in an lcd projector, you can keep the same projector for years. However, this kind of question is rather hard to answer since a year for one guy could bring 2136 hours of use, where a year for another guy could bring 2 hours of use.
However, i have a backup projector that still throws a great image, but has over 14,000 hours on it. if that tell you anything.

I have a PJ as my only display and my kids watch plenty of daytime T.V.

Most of the time when I find them watching it they have all the windows open and the picture is somewhat washed out and guess what? They don't care.

If you're not a complete audiophile then get a cheap high powered LCD projector and a grey screen. Enjoy.

As long as there is no direct sunlight it will be very watchable. When you want to watch movies yourself I assume mostly it will be at night and you can control the lighting and enjoy the contrast more.

If I have done this right, below are the links to the pic's of my living room. A few disclaimers...The house has undergone major renovation over the last yr. and is 90% complete. Yes, toys and childrens art are everywhere, we encourage the kids to play. No, the walls will not remain white, they will become a darker color. Yes, the curtains will be replaced with appropriate treatments to better control light. Yes, i have wires strung all over the place for temp hook up of a/v. The fireplace will be permanently decommissioned and an av rack built into the firebox. The brick will all come down and the wall will be plastered. For reference, the wall speakers are currently 8' apart and can be moved. The picture of the soffit is to show where the PJ would mount. The pic was taken at night with all of hte house lighting on. Which is similar to daytime with no lights.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/d1gitman/LivRoomPics005.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/d1gitman/LivRoomPics004.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/d1gitman/LivRoomPics002.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/d1gitman/LivRoomPics003.jpg
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee175/d1gitman/LivRoomPics001.jpg

That's a better enviroment than mine for a PJ. Which wall would the screen go on?
Like was said most PJ's last several years. The 12 months thing is people with upgraditis like me. Lamps as said above

...it sounds like you want a PJ though.

Well, I've had two houses in which I installed a PJ.

For a while, I had ONLY a PJ for viewing. Sure, it can be done . . .

That said, I'd not go back to JUST a PJ . . . even quite aside from the light control and bulb-usage issues.

PJs are just not convenient for "casual viewing" IMO. Takes 30 secs for the thing to even come on just for starters. And to leave the thing on with CNN droning away while I am in the computer room would be a sad waste of bulb time.

Now, I love my PJ to pieces . . . for movies and HD TV spectaculars.

But, I'd not choose life with 'only' a front PJ again.

My 46" LCD and my PJ are the "best of both worlds" and, seeing as you already have a nice flat panel TV, I'd think more about accommodating both it and a new PJ.

BTW, aren't kids and PJs a bad mix?

My thoughts . . . for what they're worth on the matter.

That's a better enviroment than mine for a PJ. Which wall would the screen go on?
Like was said most PJ's last several years. The 12 months thing is people with upgraditis like me. Lamps as said above

...it sounds like you want a PJ though.
the screen will go where the plasma is. the fireplace is going to be decommisioned and the brick removed. The entire wall, including the windows will be a blank canvas for whatever i want. when i am done, i will be sure to post new pics. (prob not before christmas)

i seem to be honing in on the mitsu 1500 (hard to say no to $850 pj) or the new ax200. any opinion of dlp over lcd?

How about a projection DLP TV? You can have a 60 to 70 inches for a couple of grand, and they are bright enough for daytime viewing.

I have the same room distribution, and decided on an LCD because of the anti-reflective characteristics of the screen among other things. A motorized 106" screen comes down in front of the LCD as needed.

My HC1500 is bright, but ambient light definitely lowers the picture quality. I don't think there are projectors bright enough to match the picture quality of an LCD or plasma on a big screen with some ambient light present.

Franke

what is the seating distance away from that screen? I know you said dimensions of 16x24, but it looks like the seats are only 5 feet from the tv. I absolutely love big screens, but if your too close you can get a headache pretty easily from moving your eyes back and fourth all over the screen. What would your ideal size be? My parents use a HD70 for their primary tv, and during the day its to washed out for my tastes, but I'd bet that 2000 lumen AX200? would work well for a bright room like yours. before buying a PJ check to see how much replacement bulbs cost as they are not all the same. How much time do you plan to have that thing on everyday? If you ran it 8 hours everyday the bulb would last probably a year, but if your bulb cost 300 bucks thats less than a dollar a day. You could also put up curtains to block out some of the light from the other rooms, even if you only block out part of it, that'll be a big help.
If I were you I'd try finding a store that would let you exchange a unit without restocking fee or buy a open box cause they don't have that fee, and see how it looks in your room. You can hang a sheet up or a piece of hardboard from home depot then take it back after your done. By the way my parents room gets much less ambient light than yours and I feel the 1000 lumen HD70 isn't strong enough during daytime viewing.

what is the seating distance away from that screen? I know you said dimensions of 16x24, but it looks like the seats are only 5 feet from the tv. I absolutely love big screens, but if your too close you can get a headache pretty easily from moving your eyes back and fourth all over the screen. What would your ideal size be? My parents use a HD70 for their primary tv, and during the day its to washed out for my tastes, but I'd bet that 2000 lumen AX200? would work well for a bright room like yours. before buying a PJ check to see how much replacement bulbs cost as they are not all the same. How much time do you plan to have that thing on everyday? If you ran it 8 hours everyday the bulb would last probably a year, but if your bulb cost 300 bucks thats less than a dollar a day. You could also put up curtains to block out some of the light from the other rooms, even if you only block out part of it, that'll be a big help.
If I were you I'd try finding a store that would let you exchange a unit without restocking fee or buy a open box cause they don't have that fee, and see how it looks in your room. You can hang a sheet up or a piece of hardboard from home depot then take it back after your done. By the way my parents room gets much less ambient light than yours and I feel the 1000 lumen HD70 isn't strong enough during daytime viewing.
My seating is actually 10' away. The pics are a bit deceiving. Sad to say, 8hrs. a day would be encountered on a regular basis, even 12 hr. days from time to time. I am leaning towards the ax200 due to lumen and the 'smooth' pic i am reading about in various threads. longevity of the panels on an LCD are a concern of mine. I can tolerate buying 1 bulb per year. I would look to set up a screen size of 90"-100" but could live with less.

I have been getting some very useful feedback on PJ or not to PJ. For now, I feel like I can be comfortable converting to a PJ. The next 2 things i am trying to understand are how an LCD PJ is ISF calibrated. I will have a chat with my ISF tech who did my plasma but a salesperson at a chain store said LCD's cannot be calibrated, i begged to differ but had no knowledge thus backed down from the argument. Also, I will be looking for an 'upconvert' dvd player and see there are a host of things to look at. I don't understand what device takes precedence in scaling, etc...PJ, TV, Reciever, DVD player? If all the devices can upscale, admittedly performing differently, which one rules the roost? Help on what threads for these 2 issues would be greatly appreciated.

My seating is actually 10' away. The pics are a bit deceiving. Sad to say, 8hrs. a day would be encountered on a regular basis, even 12 hr. days from time to time. I am leaning towards the ax200 due to lumen and the 'smooth' pic i am reading about in various threads. longevity of the panels on an LCD are a concern of mine. I can tolerate buying 1 bulb per year. I would look to set up a screen size of 90"-100" but could live with less.yeah longevity on panels is a concern of mine as well, because I want to go to the LCD but am afraid to because of this. From what I've found on the net the ax200 bulbs run around 400 bucks, my HD70 cost around 300, so this might be a concern especially if it doesn't last 3000 hours. My parents watch tv and movies on theirs for 6-8 hours each day and it hasn't racked up the hours like i thought it would. There is a counter for bulb life and it isn't 1:1 more like 1.5 or 2:1
So if I watch a 2 hour movie it only clocks 1-1.5 hours. Right now are main room is under work, but upstairs where it is setup is even brighter, so i'll try and take some pictures to show you how washed out it will look, so you have an idea what 1000 lumens will do. The room is a loft with sunroof and many windows no shades. 10ft should be plenty far, I watch 110 screen from 8 ft away and I am very sensitive to getting headaches from being to close.

I have been getting some very useful feedback on PJ or not to PJ. For now, I feel like I can be comfortable converting to a PJ. The next 2 things i am trying to understand are how an LCD PJ is ISF calibrated. I will have a chat with my ISF tech who did my plasma but a salesperson at a chain store said LCD's cannot be calibrated, i begged to differ but had no knowledge thus backed down from the argument. Also, I will be looking for an 'upconvert' dvd player and see there are a host of things to look at. I don't understand what device takes precedence in scaling, etc...PJ, TV, Reciever, DVD player? If all the devices can upscale, admittedly performing differently, which one rules the roost? Help on what threads for these 2 issues would be greatly appreciated.I don't know which one rules the roost, but why bother with an upconverting dvd player when there are so many great deals on HD/Blu Ray players not that the holidays are here. Both formats offer great upscaling of regular dvds. I just bought a toshiba HD A2 (walmart $100 sale) and it beats the crap out of my 135 dollar upscale dvd player, plus I get to enjoy Hd. Since you are getting an HD projector might as well look around at the HD/Blu Ray and see if something interests you, both are offering free disks with a player purchase.

BTW, aren't kids and PJs a bad mix?


Why? My kids are fine with the PJ. With any complex audio/video setup it can be somewhat combersome to control which is where the Harmony remote comes in.;)

Currently i am not interested in HD or Blu Ray as there is the proverbial format war going on. I remember VHS/Beta, my brother also spent big $ on a laserdisc player, then there was Divx, etc.... Since HD & Blu Ray discs come at a premium, I am not interested in that either. If the dual format players were in the $250 range, i would bite. Otherwise, a "decent" upconvert for $100 will suffice. As usual, the consumer is held hostage in the format wars. Still trying to understand what device takes precedence in the processing food chain.

Currently i am not interested in HD or Blu Ray as there is the proverbial format war going on. I remember VHS/Beta, my brother also spent big $ on a laserdisc player, then there was Divx, etc.... Since HD & Blu Ray discs come at a premium, I am not interested in that either. If the dual format players were in the $250 range, i would bite. Otherwise, a "decent" upconvert for $100 will suffice. As usual, the consumer is held hostage in the format wars. Still trying to understand what device takes precedence in the processing food chain.

a lot of the $100 upscaling players are more likely to have issues than a $150 or so player. if u're spending respectable $ on pj they why not give it a respectable 'image producer', also. especially if hd players, which also upcale as well if not better, can be had for just a little more $.

an image as good as these next gen players put out and the relatively little money they cost, who cares who wins the format war. just get the hd player for its sd upscaling ability. then, later on, maybe try out hdm.

ps -if u eventually become interested in it, hd media can be rented from netflix for same cost as sd dvds.

I really think you should reconsider a 65-70" rear projection set.
Much easier for the family to use and some smokin deals are out there now.
Another option is to wait a few months and see if the 65" lcd's drop down some more.

I love a pj setup, but not for an everyday viewing set. Especially with ambient light.

I really think you should reconsider a 65-70" rear projection set.
Much easier for the family to use and some smokin deals are out there now.
Another option is to wait a few months and see if the 65" lcd's drop down some more.

I love a pj setup, but not for an everyday viewing set. Especially with ambient light.
a rear projection set wont work for my setting due to size limitations in the room. i am trying to gain as much floor space back in my room since my couch is in the middle and reclines as well as the end seats are slightly angled. This leaves little room to walk between the tv and couch when people are reclined. I do agree that a RP would give me bang for the buck but not the solution i am looking for. 65" lcd would be the solution/compromise but have limited choices. Cost wise they are much more than i am willing to spend and i don't think they will drop fast enough for me. It seems that 65" lcd's are 2 yrs. away from being mainstream and cheap. The real issue is that i want it all, bigger, better, badder, cheaper. If i buy a $1300 pj and it only lasts 18 mo., well i could still get 3 of them for less than $4k and have nearly 5 yrs. out of the 3 combined. Technology changes so fast that i doubt i would keep anything more than 5 yrs. Thanks for the suggestion.

i seem to be honing in on the mitsu 1500 (hard to say no to $850 pj) or the new ax200. any opinion of dlp over lcd?

I own the HC1500. Get the AX200.

My first room for my projector was less than ideal (I knew I was moving and bought the projector with the new location in mind). Having said that here is an Infocus IN76 in a house with white walls, white ceilings, one wall opened to the kitchen, and a dark DVD (Pink Floyd's Pulse) at noon:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h312/jeahrens/pulse_day.jpg

That is what I would consider a worst case scenario. The picture was a little better than what the camera captured, but it gives you an idea of a very poor light controlled environment and the picture you can expect. I've been into this hobby for a long time and the large, crisp, image I get with a projection setup has been one of the most satisfying upgrades I have ever done. If you can live with the compromises I think you'll be quite happy with it.

DLP vs. LCD. This debate goes on and on. I think it's a matter of what you like. I went into projector buying with a Sony LCD projector in mind and ended up firmly in the DLP camp. Still I recommend everyone demo as many projectors as they can to get a feel for what they like. My current pick would be the Optoma HD80 as it's the only affordable 1080 DLP at the moment.

HD player vs. upscaling player. I owned my IN76 for some time before buying an HD DVD player. With the current cost of HD DVD players and the free movies, I think it foolish to go any other route. The current HD DVD players are excellent upscaling players so even if you invest nothing more in HD DVD than the 5 free movies you will still have a nice upscaling player. And those 5 free HD DVD's will produce a picture that kicks SD DVD to the curb.

I own the HC1500. Get the AX200.
what don't you like about the 1500?

My first room for my projector was less than ideal (I knew I was moving and bought the projector with the new location in mind). Having said that here is an Infocus IN76 in a house with white walls, white ceilings, one wall opened to the kitchen, and a dark DVD (Pink Floyd's Pulse) at noon:

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h312/jeahrens/pulse_day.jpg

That is what I would consider a worst case scenario. The picture was a little better than what the camera captured, but it gives you an idea of a very poor light controlled environment and the picture you can expect. I've been into this hobby for a long time and the large, crisp, image I get with a projection setup has been one of the most satisfying upgrades I have ever done. If you can live with the compromises I think you'll be quite happy with it.

DLP vs. LCD. This debate goes on and on. I think it's a matter of what you like. I went into projector buying with a Sony LCD projector in mind and ended up firmly in the DLP camp. Still I recommend everyone demo as many projectors as they can to get a feel for what they like. My current pick would be the Optoma HD80 as it's the only affordable 1080 DLP at the moment.

HD player vs. upscaling player. I owned my IN76 for some time before buying an HD DVD player. With the current cost of HD DVD players and the free movies, I think it foolish to go any other route. The current HD DVD players are excellent upscaling players so even if you invest nothing more in HD DVD than the 5 free movies you will still have a nice upscaling player. And those 5 free HD DVD's will produce a picture that kicks SD DVD to the curb.
Thanks for the pic. That definitely helps me in getting a grasp on what a 'worst case' scenario would be like. I know that i will go PJ, which one remains to be seen. The next thing i am working on is the design for the viewing wall. I intend to make the entire wall a custom built in with room for a PJ screen, likely to be in the 92" range. I am in no rush to get the PJ since i like to see some of hte price wars play out. It seems to me that if in the early life of 1080p's there are already a few pj's nearing the $2k mark, there will be even better things to come in relatively short time. I will have my hands full building the built in. Off topic, but have you ever experienced buttkickers? i have them on my seating, it is incredible.

Glad the picture helped. No, I haven't bought bass transducers yet. Probably something I'll look into when I am through spending money on other things. My next HT upgrade is going to be a 4-5' sub that my buddy who builds speakers wants to make me. That monstrosity may negate the need for bass shakers. We'll see.

what don't you like about the 1500?

Any kind of motion on the screen, or even something like the camera panning across a scene results in a very blurred picture. It's very hard to watch and almost instantaneously induces eye strain. I could not imagine EVER watching any of the Bourne films! :eek: And that's sad because I like those movies. I don't know, perhaps my PJ optics are screwed up.

I would love to see someone else's HD1000/HC1500. I couldn't demo any PJ because all the big box stores want you to do is buy their HDTV's. Their PJ's are literally empty shells (so you're not tempted to steal them) sitting on a small shelf in the corner of the store.



And jeahrens, that is the worst screen shot I've ever seen. That can't be all your room's fault. Your PJ's settings had to be whacked.

Any kind of motion on the screen, or even something like the camera panning across a scene results in a very blurred picture. It's very hard to watch and almost instantaneously induces eye strain. I could not imagine EVER watching any of the Bourne films! :eek: And that's sad because I like those movies. I don't know, perhaps my PJ optics are screwed up.

I would love to see someone else's HD1000/HC1500. I couldn't demo any PJ because all the big box stores want you to do is buy their HDTV's. Their PJ's are literally empty shells (so you're not tempted to steal them) sitting on a small shelf in the corner of the store.



And jeahrens, that is the worst screen shot I've ever seen. That can't be all your room's fault. Your PJ's settings had to be whacked.
interesting on the panning motion. I have not heard that as an issue. While i want to go PJ for the size and ability to watch without seeing reflections in the screen, it does seem that switching to a PJ is a high maintenance affair. Time will tell as i plan to make the change within 3-6 mo.

I agree that jeahrens pic is whacked, but it shows me that the pic is not totally washed out. The photo could be doing the projected image an injustice.

Any kind of motion on the screen, or even something like the camera panning across a scene results in a very blurred picture. It's very hard to watch and almost instantaneously induces eye strain. I could not imagine EVER watching any of the Bourne films! :eek: And that's sad because I like those movies. I don't know, perhaps my PJ optics are screwed up.

I would love to see someone else's HD1000/HC1500. I couldn't demo any PJ because all the big box stores want you to do is buy their HDTV's. Their PJ's are literally empty shells (so you're not tempted to steal them) sitting on a small shelf in the corner of the store.



And jeahrens, that is the worst screen shot I've ever seen. That can't be all your room's fault. Your PJ's settings had to be whacked.

The projectors settings were in no way "wacked". You're looking at a dark picture in a bright room with a bad camera. Same camera, same room, at night with King Kong (SD DVD):

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h312/jeahrens/kong.jpg

The camera imparts a slight red push that isn't there but does much better. The angle is skewed because it was set on a shelf with the timer set to get the image. I didn't have a way to square it up.

Ah, much better. Sorry for claiming it was whacked. It just looked like your whites were oversaturated and your colors were bleeding.