I have been saving up for a Theta CBIII to replace my Krell Showcase for a while now, but the news about ATI buying Theta has given me second thoughts. This forum is full i disgruntled people who has been burned by Proceed, Tag, Citation and EAD...
So i`m looking around for different options. Meridian 861 V4 seems like a good choice, there is already quite a few people here in Norway owning that machine. Classè SSP600 looks and sounds very sweet, but it does not have a card based architecture wich means that it`s as out of date as my Showcase. Anthem Statement D2 costs about 1,5 times more here in Norway than in the US, so even considering the D2`s fine performance it`s still a overpriced machine here in Norway. Halcro has no Norwegian representative, uses much of the same design as Parasound C1/2, but at three times the price, i also have heard quite a bit of bad things about halcro`s attention to quality.
Lexicon seems like a safe bet, with their trade in program and all, but i would like to try something a bit more exotic and with higher quality in two channel mode. The new Krell 707 looks the buisness, but it`s not cardbased and will cost about $44.000 here in Norway.
I have always loved the looks, sound and userfriendliness of Mark Levinson products. despite over the top price the No40 has ticled my interest since it was released. The price here in Norway is astronomical, about the same as the Krell 707. But if can rest assured that the machine wil take everything that future technology can throw at it and ML stands by it`s products i might be willing to part with my hard earned cash :)
But the lack of reviews and mention of the No40 in diffrent forums makes me wonder what`s wrong with this machine except the steep price.
There`s not a whole lot of information about the no40 and future upgradability on ML`s page. Their stance on HDMI also seems quite unclear.
For some reason i notice that ML gets quite alot of negative comments on this forum, why is that? All my (limited) experiance with ML has been 110% positive.
So is there anny No40 owners out there?

They currently offer an HDMI board for the No40.

the HDMI board is only a 4 in 1 out switch, it does not yet handle the lossless codecs. It is also a $2000.00 option. You would be better of with the 6 channel analog catrd for $2000.00 The Levinson IMO is the best sounding SSP out there. The Halcro is maybe as good as the Classe, but I have a friend that returned it for the Classe. Lexicon is good choice for the 7 chhannel mode which does immerse you into the movie. I also have a lead on one dealer demo for $19,000 U.S.D. If your interested I can Pm you the dealers name.

I have never heard any bad reviews about the 40 except possibly just considering the price. I have done a/b comparisons and the others just do not sound as good on vocals in movies or 2 channel music. The surround modes maybe not be as good as Meridian or Lexicon and it does not have an eq for bass management ( the only two down sides).

Joey

Things that I'd think about:

(1) I'd buy a pre-pro for what it delivers the day you buy it. Never assume that any upgrade will come out for it -- you seem quite aware of history on that point.

(2) What's your source? Do you just need good old Dolby Digital and DTS decoding? Do you have a DVD-A and/or SACD (or universal) player? Does said player have a hi-res digital output?

I'm on my fourth pre-pro, and have had in-home auditions of three more.... The fifth will probably come next year, as the HDMI battles start to settle.

Drew

the HDMI board is only a 4 in 1 out switch, it does not yet handle the lossless codecs.

No, but it handles LPCM, so it's a much better choice than the 6 channel analog input card.

To be noted that it does not handle 1080p, which is an idiotic shortcoming for such a high end processor. So, you have to use an HDMI splitter, directing one output to the projector and another (for audio only) to the 40.

Also, I heard rumors about a new single box processor, without the video box which is anyway totally obsolete.

"So, you have to use an HDMI splitter, directing one output to the projector and another (for audio only) to the 40."

A splitter can't do that. Audio can't just be split from the video, the audio is carried within the video. The only box I know of that can do the above is the Lumagen Radiance. It can output audio on a blank 1080i carrier out its second HDMI output for equipment that can't handle 1080p.

Shawn

"So, you have to use an HDMI splitter, directing one output to the projector and another (for audio only) to the 40."

A splitter can't do that. Audio can't just be split from the video, the audio is carried within the video. The only box I know of that can do the above is the Lumagen Radiance. It can output audio on a blank 1080i carrier out its second HDMI output for equipment that can't handle 1080p.

ShawnBut can you not simply split the HDMI A+V to both devices and let each process what it wants?

But can you not simply split the HDMI A+V to both devices and let each process what it wants?

Exactly.

"But can you not simply split the HDMI A+V to both devices and let each process what it wants?"

No. Again, the audio is contained within the video. It is carried in the vertical blanking interval. If the device can't accept 1080p video it can't get at the audio that is contained within the video.

Shawn

"But can you not simply split the HDMI A+V to both devices and let each process what it wants?"

No. Again, the audio is contained within the video. It is carried in the vertical blanking interval. If the device can't accept 1080p video it can't get at the audio that is contained within the video.

Shawn

The ML40 can.

I have a ML40. When you send it 1080p, it plays the LPCM audio, but it does not output any video.

Besides, it also offers a specific "Audio Only" setting for its HDMI inputs, which allows it to take the audio and ignore the video.

Thank you.

Information from someone who owns and knows the particular piece of equipment! ;)

"I have a ML40. When you send it 1080p, it plays the LPCM audio, but it does not output any video."

Then the #40 is accepting 1080p video and for whatever reason is not able to output the 1080p video. It can't get at the LPCM if it were not accepting 1080p.

Shawn

Looks like a great piece of gear.

Question, who can tell me what the differences are between the dacs in the ml 40 and theta gen 8?

Or who manufactures the processors in each?

"I have a ML40. When you send it 1080p, it plays the LPCM audio, but it does not output any video."

Then the #40 is accepting 1080p video and for whatever reason is not able to output the 1080p video. It can't get at the LPCM if it were not accepting 1080p.

Shawn

Yes, it accepts 1080p, but is not able to pass it through. Idiotic limitation in this day and age.

There is a replacement on the works for the no. 40 . It could take 2 years, but it is coming. I would look at the nex Tact Audio TCS Mk 3. The first pre production unit is being built now.

Thanks for all the great advice and insight. A all in one ML processor might just be the thing i`m looking for.
So the HDMI card is an actual product, i thought it was just vaporware...
I think the best thing to do right now is to do nothing until CES.
I have already arranged for a demo of the Classè SSP600, meridain 861 V4 and lexicon MC-12HD, that way i have some reference points regarding design, sound and user friendliness.
In case i decide to buy a temporary unit, what experiance do you guys have with Cary Cinema 11? Are there any news or an ETA. for the Cinema 11V?
How would such a combo stack up against the Anthem Statement D2?

Yes, it accepts 1080p, but is not able to pass it through. Idiotic limitation in this day and age.But the board was not designed in this day but about 2 years ago.

I currently own a Meridian 861v4.2 and I'm waiting for a good HDMI solution as well. I think you should go through the trouble and get a demo of the Halcro. It would be my processor of choice if I had to buy something now. It's just as good as the 861 when it comes to multichannel sound. I'd still give the edge to the 861 when it comes to two-channel performance. But there are also much better two-channel pre-amps out there such as the Audio Research Ref3. So for an ideal setup, you'd have a surround processor and two channel pre-amp.

The Cary certainly is an interesting solution and I'm considering one for my living room system, I'm using several sources there on my 70" SXRD, so the Cary 11A/V seems to be a perfect match for me there. Once I got it, I'll A/B it with the 861.

About the D2, I think it's a very poor performer and personally wouldn't even buy it for $100.- ... but that's my opinion of course.

But the board was not designed in this day but about 2 years ago.

You mean the HDMI board, or the main board?

The main board is much older, and the HDMI card is pretty new, it's been available maybe for 6 months.

I'm pretty sure that the video does not transit through the main board, so there does not seem to be any compelling reason to design the HDMI card not to pass 1080p. This card alone costs 3 times more than some complete 1080p/60 modern receivers.

Robert, i agree with your sentiment about the hdmi signal quirks....must be frustrating.

Regardless, what are your sonic impressions of the setup itself?

There must have been a compelling reason to own the preamp system.

Paul

Robert, i agree with your sentiment about the hdmi signal quirks....must be frustrating.

Regardless, what are your sonic impressions of the setup itself?

There must have been a compelling reason to own the preamp system.

Paul

Sonically, the 40 was the first processor I heard that was actualy better than my 2 channel preamp of the time (a Goldmund Mimesis 22). That was maybe 4 years ago.

I feel that it's still after all this time a very good HT processor, the HDMI card giving it a new life, even with its shortcomings.

It has also a unique feature: it supports AAC, which I need for the numerous Japanese HD recordings I have. No other high end processor supports AAC.

For 2 channel audio though, there are now much better solutions. I don't use it anymore for music listening.

You mean the HDMI board, or the main board?Yup.

This card alone costs 3 times more than some complete 1080p/60 modern receivers.Yup.

But can you not simply split the HDMI A+V to both devices and let each process what it wants?
Kal,

I'm with you on this. Rather than "daisy-chain" a bunch of A/V components together
and count on the "pass-thru" capabilities of the components not to "muck up" the part
of the signal it doesn't deal with; I would rather do as you state and feed each component
a signal split from the original source device's output; and let each component deal with
what it wants to.

Again - I don't like "daisy-chains".

Sonically, the 40 was the first processor I heard that was actualy better than my 2 channel preamp of the time (a Goldmund Mimesis 22). That was maybe 4 years ago.

I For 2 channel audio though, there are now much better solutions. I don't use it anymore for music listening.

What would you consider for 2 channel now?

What would you consider for 2 channel now?

When using amps with their own DACs and digital inputs (like the Goldmund amps), any Goldmund digital preamp.

Robert,
Ok......Im scared to ask what you run for speakers.

Please help me here 40k for the Goldmund preamp?

I am sure this is great gear but please tell me why?

I just bought 1 acre of beachfront in the bahamas...for well not much more.

Robert,
Ok......Im scared to ask what you run for speakers.

Goldmund.


Please help me here 40k for the Goldmund preamp?


For digital sources, the small SR8 that I use costs something like 12K (don't know the exact price in the US) and is as good as the big one.

Goldmund.



For digital sources, the small SR8 that I use costs something like 12K (don't know the exact price in the US) and is as good as the big one.

Nice robert,

Would luv to hear the setup, swiss engineered and all, but i know your not near ATl Ga, hahaha.

I hope the ML 40 debacle straightens itself out for you. Seems you are not alone on this issue.

In the meantime enjoy!

Paul

somewhat of a tangent, but to this day I'm still driving a Proceed AVP2+6, which is basically a mini- M.L. no40 (has all the ML40 internals), and there is not one single pre/pro out there that I've used/heard that will touch this thing......in 2-chnl, it is better than most preamps and DACs i've tested!

so I can imagine what the ML40 will do.

so I can imagine what the ML40 will do.

absolutely blows the doors off it!!!

Yup Joey, no argument there. Can't wait to hear it when my X-2's arrive! Wotg, I have or have had almost all of these processors (notably missing is the Classe). Still have the 861 and the Halcro. Started with the Theta....probably would have kept it if they had the xTreme DACS and the setup was easier. It's a fabulous sounding piece, still a challenge to setup and needs the added complexity of the SixShooter. The 861 is fab especially if you are using the 800. Awesome sound as well and especially in it's v4 guise easy to setup as well. The Lex is great for custom installs, but left me lukewarm in it's audio quality. Didn't have the HD though. The Halcro to me is the best deal. Sounds great and actually is a decent video processor. But the 40 is still near and dear to my heart. Even though as mentioned before about 50% of it's obsolete. My big wish is that they would just redo the video box so I could get rid of the Crystallio. This will never happen. But maybe it's just that I paid full boat for it (which I never usually do) and that makes it that much lovelier to me. But it was/is a excellent piece of engineering and it sounds beautiful, if you can pick one up used for half price I highly recommend it. Kind of a hard sell new as you are paying a large price for something that is pretty much obsolete (the video box). But for multichannel audio it's hard to beat.

Cheers,

Edward

I would have to believe that they will allow 1080p and HDMI 1.3 down the road with the uncompressed audio. It will be an expensive add on as usual. I have heard of the new Levinson one box solution and it only has the HDMI 1.1. ?
The big problem is that Levinson won't tell anyone anything. They should at least tell #40 owners if there unit will or won't get these options! The video switching unit is very good just not 1080p and all component.

Yup Joey, no argument there. Can't wait to hear it when my X-2's arrive! Wotg, I have or have had almost all of these processors (notably missing is the Classe). Still have the 861 and the Halcro. Started with the Theta....probably would have kept it if they had the xTreme DACS and the setup was easier. It's a fabulous sounding piece, still a challenge to setup and needs the added complexity of the SixShooter. The 861 is fab especially if you are using the 800. Awesome sound as well and especially in it's v4 guise easy to setup as well. The Lex is great for custom installs, but left me lukewarm in it's audio quality. Didn't have the HD though. The Halcro to me is the best deal. Sounds great and actually is a decent video processor. But the 40 is still near and dear to my heart. Even though as mentioned before about 50% of it's obsolete. My big wish is that they would just redo the video box so I could get rid of the Crystallio. This will never happen. But maybe it's just that I paid full boat for it (which I never usually do) and that makes it that much lovelier to me. But it was/is a excellent piece of engineering and it sounds beautiful, if you can pick one up used for half price I highly recommend it. Kind of a hard sell new as you are paying a large price for something that is pretty much obsolete (the video box). But for multichannel audio it's hard to beat.

Cheers,

Edward

I apologize for inserting myself into the thread, but glad to see others are still enjoying the No. 40. I use it for movies and SACD multi-channel, and have X-2's and all Wilson speakers. The No. 40 has been a great sonic piece for several years, although its shortcomings in video are apparent. I now use the Audio Research Ref 3 preamp for 2 channel, but the No. 40 is still a great processor for multi-channel audio in my setup, and nothing else has moved me to consider a change. Of course I also have all Levinson amps (Ref 33's. 33h, and 400 series) and maybe the overall Levinson sound is part of that enjoyment. Given Levinson's slow pace of upgrades and innovation, it certainly has required an extra dose of "brand loyalty" to wait (and hope) for meaningful upgrades so we can acess the new audio formats.

Cheers,

Welcome to the forum Clay.

Thanks CINERAMAX--I have enjoyed you posts on video for years...

awesome theater Clay....3 posts in five years...while were all yappin your building!!!
I love the ecclectic look of your room and the garage isn't half bad either;)


Joey

Thanks Joey... just finished the theater after 5 years immersed in the process. You all's comments on the No. 40 were really identical to my own experience and enjoyment of the unit, and I guess I needed to be counted. Funny story: Last year, I had a big Halcro dealer come to my home planning to sell me their new processor, and he ended up ordering the ML No. 40 for himself--swearing me to secrecy! Truth is that the rapid pace of change in video made the video half of the unit almost obsolete from the beginning, and people have rightly criticized ML for the lack of a value proposition; but that audio is still sweet to this day.