I currently own an INFOCUS IN72 digital projector. It's a 480p unit and I am pleased with the bang for buck picture I get ($450.00) The thing thats got me looking at CRT'S is this. Iwas watching the Incredibles with my son for the 100'th time the other night, and rather than firing up the projector I just put it on my 32" crt television. The lights are out and I start to pay attention to the details in the picture. The night scenes really caught my eye as my projector gets no where near the pop or 3d effect that my television produces.

My thoughts went to how can I reproduce this type of picture at 110". CRT of course but I have some questions.
1) Will it be as bright? Do CRT lumens fall into the 1200 lumens but only 400 calibrated category like the digital ones do?
2) How big can I go without losing picture quality?
3) Do I need anything other than the projector, like scalers and all that stuff that will add cost to my unit?
4) And how loud are these units?
5) Once my CRT is set up, how often will it need adjusting for focus and convergence?

1 no but it doesn't have to be cause crts do lumens different than digital
2 8'
3 scaler and hdmi input device
4 sony-loud nec-louder Barco-quiet
5 depends on how anal you are about convergence etc. I tweek mine every 2-4 weeks

Well, having come from a 480p DLP projector myself to a CRT, I can tell you that with the exception of convenience a digital will almost always come up short against a CRT. Now if you look at some of the newer 1080p 3 chip DLP units then you are getting closer to what CRT is capable of but still not exactly. There are things that both technologies do well. A 480p digital is going to have very visable pixel structure on screen at close seating distances. This is a non issue with CRT. Will it be as bright? That depends on your choice of CRT projector and what you ultimately decide on for screen size. Also, CRT needs little to no ambient light to produce an optimum image. I would say that my CRT projector is equally bright at conservative picture settings to my old digital. Then again, I am using a higher gain screen (Wilsonart DW laminate) which has a gain of about 1.24. With the digital I was using blackout cloth which has a gain of about 1.00. There are so many factors that determine what your final picture will look like, the least of which is not your room. A good dark room is always best. CRT's lend themselves better to a dedicated theater room and not a multipurpose space. In other words, don't expect to watch a movie and have another person in the room doing homework with lots of lights on. A bright digital would make this possible but who wants to watch a movie with lights on anyway? The CRT purists will tell you that a screen over 70 inches or so is too large. Most of us go much larger than that and are very happy with the results. I'm currently using a 61x108 screen and it looks great at 1080i resolution. You mentioned scalers. No, you don't need a scaler unless you want to run custom resolutions or refresh rates or if you are feeding low resolution sources and want to line double or something. Your best bet is to use a HD DVD or Blu Ray player and a high definition cable or satellite box. You can feed all of these sources via component video to a transcoder at up to 1080i and 720p resolution. Or you could get a device such as the HD Fury and add a HDMI input to your CRT projector. This what I am doing and it has been wonderful to simplify the cabling. Setup of a CRT projector is not a plug and play situation. It will require a good bit of reading, practice and patience. Sometimes that scares people away from CRT but in my opinion, if it's worth having then it's worth putting in the time and effort. It's very satisfying to do a full setup on a CRT projector and see the fruits of your labor. You just don't get that with a digital. When you turn it on, with the exception possibly of some color gain tweaking, it looks as good as it's ever going to. CRT projectors have lots of user controls and the better the mechanical and electronic setup is the better the resulting picture will look. Some are more difficult to setup than others. Take the NEC line for example. These are commonly considered to have the biggest learning curve. I have owned 3 now and I'm just now starting to understand how the setup process works. The more you try it the better you get. Of course, you can always take comfort in the knowledge that their are still professionals out there that can get your CRT projector looking incredibly good. How long the convergence and setup lasts depends on how hard the electronics are being pushed and what type of sources you are using. My NEC XG is pretty loud but there are others that are not nearly as loud and might even be more quiet than your digital. Basically, for what you have invested in your digital you could buy a decent 8" CRT and play around with it enough to find out if it's for you or not. If you decide not to keep it you can surely sell the unit here or on one of the auction sites either complete or for parts. Even with 3 CRT purchases under my belt, I am just now at the amount I spent for my entry level digital. There are lots of things to take into consideration but it's really difficult to know until you see a properly setup CRT projector for yourself. You should list your location in your signature because there may be someone close to you that would not mind giving you a demo.

3) scaler and hdmi input device you surely don't need a scaler, an HDMI input and HDMI switching device is all you need. The new Moome External box does both for $400.

4 sony-loud nec-louder Barco-quiet
5 depends on how anal you are about convergence etc. I tweek mine every 2-4 weeks don't forget the Marquee, almost as quiet as Barco and more reliable. ;) I touch up convergence on my Marquee 2 or 3 times a year. Takes about 5 minutes to do.
Bruce let us know which city your in and there's a good chance you can view a local CRT projection set-up for yourself.

I am using a receiver with built in HDMI switching and an HD Fury connected to the Crescendo Systems transcoder. The built in gamma correction of the transcoder is a big plus for CRT projectors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v641/dropzone7/CRTsetup/DSC00738.jpg

Thanks for the info guys. I will be doing a 110" diagonal 16:9 sreen and would like the brightest setup I can get. This will be in a dedicated room and I really like the G90 screenshots that I see in thes forum. The G90 is probably out of my price range but I am sure there are others that will look a lot better than a $5000.00 digital. If I can get a $800.00 CRT to look as good as a $5000.00 digital, then I will tweak till my eyes fall out to get it right.

Florence Alabama and yes we have electricity down here.

If I can get a $800.00 CRT to look as good as a $5000.00 digital, then I will tweak till my eyes fall out to get it right.

You won't be able to do this. Maybe 2 years ago, but not now.

Florence Alabama and yes we have electricity down here.

LOL. :D and indoor plumbing as well I'm sure.

Yeah, we all want a G90 like Clarence, Cliff and the other lucky few here that have one or better yet 2! :eek: $800 will get you a very respectable 8" unit to start tinkering with. G90's are like hens teeth and expensive unless you just get very lucky. I would start with a Marquee, an 8" Sony or Barco and then see if you like the results.

You won't be able to do this. Maybe 2 years ago, but not now.

Are you referring to the improved quality of digital at that price point today as opposed to what was available a few years ago? You can certainly get more for your money now with a digital but that also applies to CRT. The technology of CRT may not have changed for the better or worse but the prices have certainly come down.

Well, maybe I am being a bit unrealistic with an $800.00 unit. But basically what would it take to beat a pearl or JVC RS1. Can this be done on a budget with a CRT unit?

This would be a good place to start. http://www.curtpalme.com/Projector_Rankings.shtm I would say that anything from the 8" liquid coupled units and all of the 9" units would certainly give both of those digitals a run for their money. It's personal preference really and depends on what you like in an image. The CRT blacks will be better in almost any model and especially with the higher end 8" and 9" units. The digitals are going to look "sharper" but that is not always a good thing. I personally prefer the softer film like image of CRT to the artificially bright and punchy image of some of the brighter digitals. That's not to say that CRT can't be "punchy" and bright. If you have checked out the G90 screenshots then you know how good a top notch 9" CRT can look. Personally, I would opt to start with a budget of $1000 or less and see what the best CRT you can get for that is. If after setting it up and learning how it works and getting used to the image, you are looking for more, then you can upgrade. I would just hate to see someone spend $5000 on a CRT only to find out that they got in over their head or did not have the time to invest in setup.

Beat it with an $800 CRT? Maybe not. If everything else is equal, the RS1 will beat any CRT based on light output. Image sharpness is also best on digitals, though many of them seem TOO sharp, artificially so.

But yes, with a bit of effort I think you can at least match a $5k digital with an $800 CRT. I've done it a couple of times in the last 2 years. E.g. I have about $1000 into my Marquee 8500 (including color-filtered lenses and an upgraded green tube), and not many sub-$5k digitals could beat it.

Bruce,
I am running a 110" diagonal screen with a Sony D50 which is considered in the upper range of the lower level CRT's. Everyone who has seen the pic is very impressed with it. I have been told numeorous times in the forums that this screen is to large for the pj but I would rather run it harder and have a larger screen. Just read the manual numerous times before beginning the setup. Took me about 3 hours to obtain a good setup. If you are around a major metropolitian area and are patient you can find a good deal on e-bay or craigslist. If you want to pay a little more and make sure you are getting a known good unit check out curtpalme.com I paid $500 for the D50 with 1700 hours on the tubes.

I currently own an INFOCUS IN72 digital projector. It's a 480p unit and I am pleased with the bang for buck picture I get ($450.00) The thing thats got me looking at CRT'S is this. Iwas watching the Incredibles with my son for the 100'th time the other night, and rather than firing up the projector I just put it on my 32" crt television. The lights are out and I start to pay attention to the details in the picture. The night scenes really caught my eye as my projector gets no where near the pop or 3d effect that my television produces.

I witnessed an infocus IN26 the other day at home when a friend of mine brought his. We watch Lost in Space @1080i. The picture quality was great. It was sharper than my sony 1272. However, like you mentioned above, you were missing something about the 3d effect. To be fair, for the price, it's not bad at all. And also, I noticed some dark areas weren't as black as my CRT.

My thoughts went to how can I reproduce this type of picture at 110". CRT of course but I have some questions.
1) Will it be as bright? Do CRT lumens fall into the 1200 lumens but only 400 calibrated category like the digital ones do?
2) How big can I go without losing picture quality?
3) Do I need anything other than the projector, like scalers and all that stuff that will add cost to my unit?
4) And how loud are these units?
5) Once my CRT is set up, how often will it need adjusting for focus and convergence?

Last week or two was my first time to project a movie at 120" wide screen. That's not diagonal. It wasn't sharp but the feeling is really different as if I become part of the movie. I have an entry level projector but was still shocked/amazed with the picture quality. We have another thread here with subject title "Screenshot War". You will be shocked when you see CRT screenshots from Clarence, overclkr, mp, spotmatic. There are other folks there but forgot their handles.

2) I saw a rule here before that 7" tubes for 7 ft wide screen, 8" tubes for 8 ft screen and so on.

3) I use HTPC using RGBHV cable. I create my own custom resolution using xtiming.sourceforge.net

4) Loud, I can hear it from 13 ft away. :p

5) I noticed mine even after staying it for 1 hour, I do the convergence and save it. Then the following day if I want to watch, I turn it ON and wait at least 30 mins to 1 hour, some areas are not converge anymore but very minimal. I don't know why this hapens. Oh, when I turn it ON, they're NOT converge. That 30 min wait I mentioned stabilizes the projector, then it converges them back again based from the previous setting you have configured.

Just my 2 cents.

You can get a cheap CRT under $1k and be happy with.
It certainly beats the 480p and some 720p. The difference in pic is what you really have to know. To some a bright and colotful is all it take and can be accomplished by a one grand digital.

To be realistic short of a top notch 9" CRT, you will need a 8" crt with LC to get your feet wet in hi end class of PQ. Given that you will need to be prepared to spend at least twice that and more but then again it really depends on what you are after.
Something for certain no matter what CRT you get it the black level is good.

I have been in both camps and both techs offers a different view point of the same material.

ive been really lucky with my 10pg. its been touched up twice in a year and that took a whole minute each time, and its usually after someone bangs their head into it :)

i would look for an 8" lc projector...its a good starting point.

I've got a couple of budget digitals that we use for tv in the livingroom, and a low-mid Barco 1208/2 that we use in a dedicated theatre. We use the Barco almost every night to watch a movie, and in nearly 4 years of use we've only had one issue that was fixed with the swap of a card. I touch up the convergence 2 to 3 times a year, usually in the spring and fall when the temp changes.

I love the sharp look of digitals for watching HDTV / sports, but for movies, I love the look of CRT. We only watch DVD's upscaled by an HTPC / ZoomPlayer / ffDshow. I've seen the RS1 quite a few times, and its a great projector. Somehow I find it still doesn't match the 'warmth' for lack of a better word that CRT's give movies.

Just my opinion

Jonathan

"You should list your location in your signature because there may be someone close to you that would not mind giving you a demo."

That's what I was thinking.
You owe it to yourself to see a first class CRT setup. nuff said.

I'm a CRT fanboy through and through..... have been for the last 6 years.

Buddy brought over his new PannyAE2000 over the weekend. It walked all over my NEC XG in every respect except for black level.

Funny how different the room sounds without the jet engine running :D And my XG is fully fan modded and about half as loud as original.

I currently own an INFOCUS IN72 digital projector. It's a 480p unit and I am pleased with the bang for buck picture I get ($450.00) The thing thats got me looking at CRT'S is this. Iwas watching the Incredibles with my son for the 100'th time the other night, and rather than firing up the projector I just put it on my 32" crt television. The lights are out and I start to pay attention to the details in the picture. The night scenes really caught my eye as my projector gets no where near the pop or 3d effect that my television produces.

My thoughts went to how can I reproduce this type of picture at 110". CRT of course but I have some questions.
1) Will it be as bright? Do CRT lumens fall into the 1200 lumens but only 400 calibrated category like the digital ones do?
2) How big can I go without losing picture quality?
3) Do I need anything other than the projector, like scalers and all that stuff that will add cost to my unit?
4) And how loud are these units?
5) Once my CRT is set up, how often will it need adjusting for focus and convergence?


Ok, I had owned an Infocus 4805, which is basically the same projector and as nice as it was my two CRT projectors beat it easily due to having much deeper blacks, much more on/off contrast and a smoother image. I would find that when watching some film sources I would wish it was my CRT. Though a clean source looke phenomonial on the 4805. However, I upgraded to a Sharp DT-500 and rarely find myself missing my CRTs like I used to whenever I'd use my 4805. The blacks are better, brigihtness is better, contrast is better, low end dark detail is quite a bit better and the resolution made is much smoother from closer distance.

The DT-500 is just AWESOME. Now, low contrast dark scenes willl look good and quite a bit better on the DT-500 than on your unit, but CRT is the KING when it comes to Low APL scenes. However, these scenes are like 5-10% of scenes at best....every other time the DT-500 will have superior blacks and pop due to higher ANSI contrast.


Both technologies have their positives and negatives.

DT-500 Positives (or you can get a good DarkChip 3 unit now or the Marantz VP4001/Sharp Z3000, which are basically DT-500s with a second iris for mroe contrast and even depper blacks):

Very short throw. Project large images at shorter distances.
Very bright and has the ability to pull off 10-12' wide (or bigger) screens easier.
Great colors
Very sharp picture.
Great dark detail.
Adjustable iris for increased contrast in the dark or more brightness for ambient light viewing.
Simplicity.
High ansi contrast....this means in mixed contrast scenes you will have more pop and a 3D like picture with deep blacks.
Easy setup.
No burn-in possibility.
Adjustable zoom.
Easy focus.
Smoother than 480p.

DT-500 Negatives:

$400 lamp.
Absolute black not near CRT, but better than most digitals. Though this really only matters in scenes with no bright areas. It does a very nice job in even the darkest of scenes, but not as great as CRT. It basically looks a lot like a high end DLP cinema, but with a bit darker blacks.
Minor screen door effect if you sit less than 1.5x the width of the screen.

CRT positives (especially in your price range):

Amazing on/off contrast gives beautiful dark scenes when calibrated.
Great silky smooth film like image.
Amazing colors.
Long lasting tubes.
Easier to repair usually unless the digital is under warranty.

CRT negatives (negatives):

Needs gamma correction for good dark detail unless you really want to raise absolute black a lot. That probably adds $150 for anything but DVDs (if you're using an HTPC).
Massive size compared to digitals.
More difficult setup....not quite plug and play at first.
Not as bright, but generally bright enough. The awesome contrast makes up for the lack of high brightness.
Potential burn-in if you do not take certain precautions. This is easy to avoid generally though.
No adjustable zoom.
Focus takes more time.
Convergence process (though I enjoy it for some reason. lol). Most will not.


Neither is perfect. Take everything into consideration. I still want to get another CRT, for the amazing dark scenes (though the DT-500 is very good and I can't complain, but it's not CRT good) and because I hate the idea of my $400 lamp going on me. :mad:


If you go digital get one of the following:

Sharp DT-500, Sharp Z3000 (DT-500 with extra iris), Marantz VP4001 (DT-500 with extra iris) or a Sharp Z12000 MKII. The MKII will deliver the deepest blacks and the most contrast of them all. I recall some saying they preferred it over the JVC RS1 in some ways...probably because of the higher ANSI contrast. However, the MKII isn't as bright as the other units....well, at least not when calibrated for best contrast so the other will pull off bigger screens.

More difficult setup....not quite plug and play at first.
.
.
.

Focus takes more time.


That is a good one!:)

That is a good one!:)


:D

Some more view points on digitals projectors:

Most do NOT have accurate color
Most have lumen as low as CRT after d65 and 700 hrs
All have flawed black level. Nothing worse to me than watching a dark low APL with haze all over
Most sharper but do not offer more detail on video (but static frame) with the exception of a few ultra expensice ones
Most DLP's have dithering error
Most DLP's have RBE (color seperatio)
Most have uniformity and shading issue. CRT has huge uniformity too
Most have un-fixable misconvergence or dispersion or geometric error to a degree
Most have visible pixel structure on large screen therefore require 40% more sitting distance

Now how can a device with all that walk ALL over an equivalent priced CRT?!!

It is all a matter of give and take.

Thanks for all the info and opinions guys. I think I will do as someone suggested and enjoy the best of both worlds. I plan on dropping some change on both techs when I set up my dedicated room. What good is a hobby if you limit yourself to only one type of experience. I really want to check out the CRT scene and plan on finding a good CRT setup to look at. Meantime I am enjoying my IN72 and really trying hard to leave the dang thing alone and watch the movie. Am I a tweaker? Let me put it this way, I have a friend who has the Panny ae1000 1080p unit. We set it up and he has not touched the menu since. He is not a tweaker. I adjust something everytime I watch a movie, my wife hates it, picture, sound it does'nt matter. Something can always be better.

I'm a CRT fanboy through and through..... have been for the last 6 years. Buddy brought over his new PannyAE2000 over the weekend. It walked all over my NEC XG in every respect except for black level. It's a little hard to believe the difference was that big except for noise level, XG's are really noisy.
How were you feeding the machines? A full HDMI signal path is totally superior to an RGB feed and if the Panny had HDMI while the XG had an RGB then that's a huge handi-cap. I had this same experience a few months back with the JVC RS1, it wasn't until I added a Moome HDMI card to my 8500 that I realized the difference was not that big. The RS1 was brightner,a little sharper, and could do 2.35 CIH if you added an $8K motorized lens to it.

Thanks for all the info and opinions guys. I think I will do as someone suggested and enjoy the best of both worlds. I plan on dropping some change on both techs when I set up my dedicated room. What good is a hobby if you limit yourself to only one type of experience. I really want to check out the CRT scene and plan on finding a good CRT setup to look at. Meantime I am enjoying my IN72 and really trying hard to leave the dang thing alone and watch the movie. Am I a tweaker? Let me put it this way, I have a friend who has the Panny ae1000 1080p unit. We set it up and he has not touched the menu since. He is not a tweaker. I adjust something everytime I watch a movie, my wife hates it, picture, sound it does'nt matter. Something can always be better.

Well, if you are a "tweaker" then CRT would be a great fit for you! There are many more things to adjust than with a digital.

Thanks for all the info and opinions guys. I think I will do as someone suggested and enjoy the best of both worlds. I plan on dropping some change on both techs when I set up my dedicated room. What good is a hobby if you limit yourself to only one type of experience. I really want to check out the CRT scene and plan on finding a good CRT setup to look at. Meantime I am enjoying my IN72 and really trying hard to leave the dang thing alone and watch the movie. Am I a tweaker? Let me put it this way, I have a friend who has the Panny ae1000 1080p unit. We set it up and he has not touched the menu since. He is not a tweaker. I adjust something everytime I watch a movie, my wife hates it, picture, sound it does'nt matter. Something can always be better.

You sound cut out for CRT then. :) I had both techs and loved owning both. Both offer different things. As far as digitals go the Sharp DT-500 is one of the best deals you can get. It dropped to a great price. I would sell the IN72 on Ebay and use tha tmoney to help get a unit like the DT-500 and you can add a CRT as well. It would be fun to compare.

This would be a good place to start. http://www.curtpalme.com/Projector_Rankings.shtm I would say that anything from the 8" liquid coupled units and all of the 9" units would certainly give both of those digitals a run for their money. It's personal preference really and depends on what you like in an image. The CRT blacks will be better in almost any model and especially with the higher end 8" and 9" units. The digitals are going to look "sharper" but that is not always a good thing. I personally prefer the softer film like image of CRT to the artificially bright and punchy image of some of the brighter digitals. That's not to say that CRT can't be "punchy" and bright. If you have checked out the G90 screenshots then you know how good a top notch 9" CRT can look. Personally, I would opt to start with a budget of $1000 or less and see what the best CRT you can get for that is. If after setting it up and learning how it works and getting used to the image, you are looking for more, then you can upgrade. I would just hate to see someone spend $5000 on a CRT only to find out that they got in over their head or did not have the time to invest in setup.

I, too, am deciding between an 8" LC CRT or a digital like the new panny. I am leaning strongly towards a CRT for many of the same reasons I strongly prefer LP over CDs, and will not sacrifice quality for convenience. One question: Digitals are frequently described on this forum as being "sharper" and CRTs as "smoother" or "softer." Will someone attempt to define these terms? Does "sharper" mean better focus? More detailed? And smoother less so? And how to these terms relate to edge enhancement? I don't want to sacrifice detail. Thanks

Digitals are sharper whereas CRTs are more film-like. Comparing to audio, digitals are like audio setups that have detailed highs and are bright whereas CRTs are like audio setups that are warm (lots of bass). In both cases, it has a lot to do with preference.

I, too, am deciding between an 8" LC CRT or a digital like the new panny. I am leaning strongly towards a CRT for many of the same reasons I strongly prefer LP over CDs, and will not sacrifice quality for convenience. AHA, I'M NOT ALONE.The 2 favorite pieces of equipment in my HT, my MP modded 8500 and my Linn Sondeck LP12. Both were a lot more work up-front than going digital but both will be around long after CD and DLP are dead. :D
One question: Digitals are frequently described on this forum as being "sharper" and CRTs as "smoother" or "softer." Will someone attempt to define these terms? Does "sharper" mean better focus? More detailed? And smoother less so? And how to these terms relate to edge enhancement? I don't want to sacrifice detail. Thanks Digitals have super sharp edeges to every image, that's just how they work. I don't think this reveals any more detail or makes the pic necessarily more life-like. One other thing, don't get stuck on LC. I have set-up older Marquee LC's with cloudy Glycol chambers that certainly didn't add anything good to the pic. Of course if you go with a G70 you won't have to worry about that but then there's other problems with those sets.

The only thing that the "sharpness" of digitals gets you is a clearer view of the pixel structure. No such issue with CRT. The only limitation here is with the source and the screen material.

Digitals have a clearer pic, perfect focus and geometry. Crt has the awesome blacks, but questionable shadow detail with FP. Awesome color saturation though. Much harder for crt to get a great pic with out major tweaking.. Digital is more plug and play.. Yeah crt is more film like, digital is more life like, like you are there or looking out a window. Like audio you will be amazed with the clarity and brightness and resolution of digital- like the audio comparison. However Crt does stir some emotions i admit, whatever tech makes you the most happy is the winner.

I know its quite a drive but i am in Birmingham and have a marquee 8500

Scott

Digitals have a clearer pic, perfect focus and geometry. Crt has the awesome blacks, but questionable shadow detail with FP. Awesome color saturation though. Much harder for crt to get a great pic with out major tweaking.. Digital is more plug and play.. Yeah crt is more film like, digital is more life like, like you are there or looking out a window. Like audio you will be amazed with the clarity and brightness and resolution of digital- like the audio comparison. However Crt does stir some emotions i admit, whatever tech makes you the most happy is the winner.

Digital the most "life like"? I guess if you call sickly flesh tones and over sharpened edges life like then yeah. This is similar to the LCD and Plasma debate. I personally think that LCD is very one dimensional and flat looking compared to plasma. As you said though, whatever looks best to you.

Digitals have a clearer pic, perfect focus and geometry. Crt has the awesome blacks, but questionable shadow detail with FP. Awesome color saturation though. that used to be true, but with so many devices out there offering custom Gamma curves it's really not true anymore. With low-end Gamma boost CRT is King of shadow detail.

Digitals have a clearer pic, perfect focus and geometry. Crt has the awesome blacks, but questionable shadow detail with FP. Awesome color saturation though. Much harder for crt to get a great pic with out major tweaking.. Digital is more plug and play.. Yeah crt is more film like, digital is more life like, like you are there or looking out a window. .

If CRT is film like and digital is life like then film is not capable of life like images.
I will try to keep that in mind when I go to IMax next time.:) That has nothing to do with it. It is pixel based image that make it look sharper specially with video NOT contaning moving images unless you own a very high end unit. I even say that CRT has more realistic PQ.

You probably have never seen a digital with bowing, misconvergence or serious dispersion error.
I own both and I disagree with tone of nonesense digital guys drop in this forum time to time. :)

I guess you have never seen RBE, dithering on your pj that make you feel digital has clearer PQ. It all depends.

I'm just being honest with my observations, right or wrong. If digital was truely as bad as some claim, WHY do people switch over from the Crt's? How on earth can some claim a sxrd can beat a g90? I think Kipp jones said that :D

Bruce,

No one should be talking you into anything....you should go view a well setup CRT and Digital for yourself. Then and only then will you have the answer to your confusion. But just for craps and jiggles....get what your money and knowledge can handle. :)

Here is a good reason to go CRT over digital:

http://i15.tinypic.com/873x3yq.jpg

Would you like some more?

Cliff

I'd say with a budget that low I'd still go with a digital. If you're keen on DIY then CRT.
Seriously, who of us CRT guys have had their first CRT set up properly in less than 2 hours? In 2 days? In 2 weeks? Ever?

Of course it's all about the condition of the PJ and how anal you are with the adjustments and is the PJ EM+digital machine or not but hey, why go through the trouble of learning all this just to save money on a great picture? The machines in that price class are always used or old so the reliability will be a question.

As said, if you're not into DIY don't go CRT.

Here is a good reason to go CRT over digital:

Would you like some more?

Cliff

If you're selling your G90 for the 800$ I'm buying it! :D

If you're selling your G90 for the 800$ I'm buying it! :D

That ain't no stinkin' G90. That's a Barco 909. :D

Barco 909: Top for Stacks.

Sony G90: Top for Stacks.

:D;):D;)

Cliffy

Yeah crt is more film like, digital is more life like, like you are there or looking out a window. .

Whoa, I strongly disagree with the above statement. CRT is like looking out a window. If you like all of your actors to have oversaturated fleshtones, as in everyone has a tan always, even in the dead of winter, digital is the way to go.

CRT has that lifelike look, digital has that oversaturated poster look. IN my opinion.

My $0.02.... I am sporadic on this forum... it's time for me to be cramming again..... just finishing up a deal with Curt for a replacement for the Marquee 8000 I acquired a few months back with burnt tubes....

Anyway.... even though this is brush-up time for me and my experience thus far is limited to entry level CRT (Sony 1031Q that has been running like a trooper for at least 3 years now) I still prefer my entry level CRT to every digital I've seen to-date. I've only ever fed it line doubling. I've tried very hard to baby the tubes, so.... I've never seen even the low range of high-def on it... and I still prefer it to digitals, particularly for movies. Yes, I'd prefer to watch DVD movies on my CRT than HD content on a digital.

Every now and then when we go to someone's house who has a projector, most buy into the digitals because of the easy setup and lack of research and they've got more money than good sense... I sit there and watch the thing in action and immediately start picking out the "cons". The two biggest beefs with me are the black levels and the poor flesh tones. Yes, they are sharp, but as so many have said, oversharp and fake looking to my eye. The colors are vivid, but they aren't the "right" colors. Tolerable until people are on the screen and it's most obvious to me in the flesh tones.

Overall, I still have not seen a digital that I would prefer over my little 1031q
I've had several people begging for it since they know I've got the Marquee to replace it, but I'm keeping it just in case as a backup because I won't be stuck without a CRT PJ.

I'm sure when I start feeding the Marquee HD I'm going to be blown away, because what appeals to me about HD is vivid and realistic colors and a more dense image, not oversharpened jagged edges and oversaturated and blown out colors that are an attempt to compensate for what digitals lack in comparison to the CRTs.

Whoa, I strongly disagree with the above statement. CRT is like looking out a window. If you like all of your actors to have oversaturated fleshtones, as in everyone has a tan always, even in the dead of winter, digital is the way to go.

CRT has that lifelike look, digital has that oversaturated poster look. IN my opinion.

I agree about the skin tones, but thats not what makes digital look like looking out a window, it's the brighter better focused image you get with digital. It's the evenly illuminated corner to corner brightness that also helps. If people cant give digital atleast that, i dont know what to say except denial. I'm not saying digital is better, but there is pro's and cons to both, the things digital does well crt dont do as well... Crt dont do EVERYTHING better.

....
Seriously, who of us CRT guys have had their first CRT set up properly in less than 2 hours? In 2 days? In 2 weeks? Ever?
....


Ummm....me.

I still have my first CRT PJ that I bought about 14 years ago and it took less than 2 hours to set up when I first got it, now I could do it in half an hour.

OK it is a lowly VPH1000QM that can only do SD not HD and not even progressive scan but I have never been to a cinema since and any time I have looked at digitals I have thought 'no way would I buy that junk even if I had the money, I will stick with my CRT PJ, better lifelike image and colours and WAY more reliable", 14 years on the same tubes and no repairs at all!

I agree about the skin tones, but thats not what makes digital look like looking out a window, it's the brighter better focused image you get with digital. It's the evenly illuminated corner to corner brightness that also helps. If people cant give digital atleast that, i dont know what to say except denial. I'm not saying digital is better, but there is pro's and cons to both, the things digital does well crt dont do as well... Crt dont do EVERYTHING better.

Let me guess.. Your opinion is based on tube TV and digital.. flat panel.
You have never seen a nice CRT FP. :)

Talking about better focus on digital.. I always defocus my digital pj.:D
It looks better. SXRD is not better tha G90 either. Not even better than my XG. Otherwise it would have been hoisted down already.

My opinions are based on FPs and FPs only. And comparing close to state of the art CRT vs high quality consumer digital in my very own black pit HT on a 1.3 gain 54 x 96, perhaps a little big for a Marquee according to some who would limit things to an 84 inch wide 1.78 1.3. Soon I wil have the new Sim2 1080p three chip DLP in there to do direct A/Bs. I'll violate my rule and post worthless screen shots


For what its worth on viewing screen shots it looks to me that the CRT stacks just don't have the sharpness of the single CRTs not that the sharpness or less sharpness would be viewable in circumstances other than test patterns and screen shots.

In a Marquee ultra, doing an electroni zone focus, the dots on the sides just can't be focused as tight as the other dots, the machine runs out of focus adjustment range. In real life, not at all noticeable but in a bland, one had better put on the magic Sony lenses or those from the Barco.

With the marquee blend, i think were blending two almost hand built machines. Its a stock chasis with a lot of highly modded boards, some just minimally modded, lenses from other projectors, stig windings in one case. The list goes on and on.

If it weren't for digitals, I suspect the art of CRT manufacture would have advanced by now. A much better machine could be built than what was bult ten years ago and it could rival digital in the areas where digitals exceed except ultimate lumens, ANSI contrast, and color space. The cost would be prohibitive though just even considring the lenses.

I'm just being honest with my observations, right or wrong. If digital was truely as bad as some claim, WHY do people switch over from the Crt's? How on earth can some claim a sxrd can beat a g90? I think Kipp jones said that :D


There are many that have switched from a G90 to an RS1 and have told me no contest. RS1 beats it. I know mine does

There are many that have switched from a G90 to an RS1 and have told me no contest. RS1 beats it. I know mine does


Now tell me about the negative side of owning a RS1.

Nuff said.

Cliffy

Now tell me about the negative side of owning a RS1.

Nuff said.

Cliffy

LOL, that's just being mean Cliff. When the RS1 grows up, it's going to be an RS2. But for now, and based on the many issues I've read. It's still pissing on itself.

Now tell me about the negative side of owning a RS1.

Nuff said.

Cliffy

Unfortunately you can pull it right out of the box, hook it up in 2 minutes and get a better picture. This would be bad for those who like using lifts, buying extra components, and tweaking their equipment for hours and hours. Plus it's very exciting to know you may not be able to fix your CRT if something goes bad.

I guess it does have downsides to ownership.

Unfortunately you can pull it right out of the box, hook it up in 2 minutes and get a better picture. This would be bad for those who like using lifts, buying extra components, and tweaking their equipment for hours and hours. Plus it's very exciting to know you may not be able to fix your CRT if something goes bad.

I guess it does have downsides to ownership.

Hehe, ALL untrue. At least in my case..........

Cliffy

Check out our new "dual format" HT:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12270113#post12270113

Personal preference plays the most important role when consumers choose many products (music is a very good example for this discussion), and images from a display device are no different. Simply put, after a one-after-the-other vewing in our HT, I'd be willing to bet that at least 99% of viewers would prefer the image from the RS1.

For me and my wife, as a result of having had numerous opportunities to compare the RS1's image to the NEC's, the most objectionable things about the NEC's image are the visibility of it's scan lines, particularly in bright scenes, the softness of its image (most noticeable on stationary text and scrolling text), and it's relative dimness.

For non-critical viewing of lesser-quality signals, but when we still want the big picture, we'll use the NEC + permwall. For everything else we'll use the RS1+HP.

Should anything go wrong with either pj, we'll still have the big image from the other.

We have the best of both worlds. I recommend that any CRT owners considering the digital option - especially those whose CRT projectors are still putting out a good image - give serious consideration to going "dual-format".

What resolution are you running the Nec?

What resolution are you running the Nec?
1080i

(BTW, the 16x9 image on the permwall is 92" diagonal.)

I run a 159" picture at 1080i and sit 11 feet back with a Barco 808lc with only a throw distance of 12 feet:p An RS1 can't do that without the pixel structure being compromised and Curt was right about the flesh tones.
If I was you I would by the G70 on Videogon for 999.00. Looks like a sweet deal:cool:

I like this one about digital lol

It's the evenly illuminated corner to corner brightness that also helps. If people cant give digital atleast that, i dont know what to say except denial. Crt dont do EVERYTHING better.

YEA... until the bulb wears and the center turns yellow:rolleyes:

I like this one about digital lol



YEA... until the bulb wears and the center turns yellow:rolleyes:

Actually what he said is inaccurate even with a new bulb.
Some digitals have corners dim up to 50%. Average is in mid 80% I think.

I have been into a dedicated HT since 1987 when we built it when building the house. Two CRT pj's and two screens later I have a ceiling-mounted Runco 930 (NEC 6PG Xtra basically a 7" CRT that Runco claims is 8") shining on a Stewart Studiotek 130 110" diagonal 16:9.....and it died this past week!!! :>( I haven't yet gone Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD) cuz although I've been watching HD since 1998 my pj sweetspot is best stressed at 1080i or 540p. I want to go new formats asap.

I was going to go digital and DLP and have come to the possibly wrong conclusion that 1-chip DLP (even the Sim2 HT380) is a somewhat stopgap technology with a color wheel that may or may not get me dizzy, headachy or see rainbows. I'll take the 4 hr drive from Cleveland to AVS (Rochester) to see it. I have $$ to spend, but to go 3-chip right now is $22k+ (Sim2 C3X 1080). To stay CRT, like Curt recommends (duh!), and yet go 1080p, is to get a Marquee 9500 or Barco (G90's quite scarce and no real parts). I'm scared that anything less than 3 chip DLP will get me a worse picture than my CRT, but I'd love to have the convenience and a little less noise up there.

What would you guys do with, say $10k? Modded Curt 9500 plus paint the ceiling and sloped walls black for even better contrast? Cough up another $12k+ and go C3X 1080? Here's my room:
http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=315

Why DLP? There are LCD's/Lcos as well. I would suggest to get one in co-existance before dumping the Nec. Or simply upgrade the CRT.
Digitals look a lot brighter out of box and diedown in brightness quickly.

Thanks, but the NEC Runco) is dead; no chances of survival. One output amp is dead, green gun is going. Makes no $$sense to put anything else into a 10 yr old 540p-700p projector. I need 1080p, and I need it now. :>)

"Simply upgrade the CRT". Are you agreeing with my option of going with a Curt modded Marquee, etc...or are you saying something else?

LCD/LCOS? Who. I'm open. Sony's VW60 is supposedly only ok, but not even the level of the JVC RS1, which has poor color quality amongst its negatives. I realize I can't get what I want for $3-4k, and have no interest doing so. But there doesn't seem to be a digital solution between those and the 3 chip DLP at $25k. My $02. I'd love someone to opine otherwise. I'm all er....eyes.

I am suggesting a better i.e., better 8" or just 9" CRT such as the one you have in mind.
I own a digital and the XG and still my XG is winner overall in my mind.
I use the digital for everyday use but film material I have to use the XG.
Having said that my XG is in excellent shape and very limited hours on the unit.

If I had the $$ to spend I'd be getting a MP modded 9500 ultra with all fan mods and a vidikron style case.

If I had the $$$ to spend I would double that and get a blend processor.

I wouldn't dump 10k into a digital of any kind, but then again if you have the money to spend and are willing to have a machine that will be outdated next year go for it.

It's all what makes you happy.

Erik

Yes, I'm leaning toward exactly that, a modded 9500 (MP hopefully) full full fan and baord mods. Vidikron case? Hmm....Are these beasts available somewhere? Maybe I'll PM Mr. Parker

...I'll take the 4 hr drive from Cleveland to AVS (Rochester) to see it...If you are going to AVS anyway, compare the Black Pearl (VW60) and the RS1 while you are there. Then you can deceide for yourself if the VW60 is only ok and the negatives of the RS1.:)

If you are going to AVS anyway, compare the Black Pearl (VW60) and the RS1 while you are there. Then you can deceide for yourself if the VW60 is only ok and the negatives of the RS1.:)

Will do. And you are right (assuming your wink) I could be all wet. I'm learning something new every day...and I'm sick of it! :)

When it comes to the very best image that can be had, I've never seen anybody happy with a digital. They may not realize it or care or whatever, but they have gotten themselves on a merry-go-round. That PJ they just spent a ton of money and time on is outdated the day the new ones come out. No longer happy with what is hanging from the ceiling, they end up spending their time drooling over the new one. "I wonder what I could off load my old PJ for, I could use my Christmas bonus to buy the MGR-8, cool". There has been a whole list of digitals that have been "King of the Hill", and the reason for that is the technology still has a long way to go before it can not be improved upon by a noticeable amount.

Lucky for them, digitals are disposable:)

Deron.

My dad bought a digital this week, his first projector. It's an Optoma HD70 which is 720p. I set it up in my room in about 2 minutes and the first thing I was impressed by was the sharpness. I have had digital before but it's been a while. I watched a few movie trailers that I am familiar with just to compare and I realized very soon why I prefer CRT. All of the well documented issues such as black level and pixel structure were easy to see when comparing the two technologies. Granted, this is not a high end digital but for what he paid for it used it was a good move for him not having a dedicated theater space. I was envious of being able to turn on the projector and have a perfectly squared image right away. Brightness was good but at the expense of black level and shadow detail. It really looked nice with a native 720p signal from my HD cable box but...I will keep my CRT until something better comes along. If something better comes along. Both technologies have their pros and cons but I am hooked on fade to blacks with my CRT and the lifelike flesh tones. If I could do a better job of setting it up I might be even more impressed.

Both techs have their own.
I am one of the few who owns both and still don't believe that CRT nor didgital are all that bad.
Last night I just did a/b my Nec XG1352 with Optoma 7300 and HD3000 outboard processor. Boy I was wrong in my previous assement thinking this digital which is the Optoma's top in 720 class is very close. They were above 50 ire below that was all XG. I couldn't figure out if I was happy or disapponted.
One issue with digitals when you really dig in is that you never get the deep green of color corrcted CRT. Even the blue is not the same Red could be close depending on the unit.
Sharpness is a draw in my case except for edge definition which I hate anyway. After a while it gets old and you want the fluid look.
So like I always say it all depends.

When it comes to the very best image that can be had, I've never seen anybody happy with a digital...Well, Art who used to own a G90 stack, seems pretty happy with his. :D

I have been into a dedicated HT since 1987 when we built it when building the house. Two CRT pj's and two screens later I have a ceiling-mounted Runco 930 (NEC 6PG Xtra basically a 7" CRT that Runco claims is 8") shining on a Stewart Studiotek 130 110" diagonal 16:9.....and it died this past week!!! :>( I haven't yet gone Blu-Ray (or HD-DVD) cuz although I've been watching HD since 1998 my pj sweetspot is best stressed at 1080i or 540p. I want to go new formats asap. wow, so you got 20 years use out of 2 CRt PJ's, I hope you don't expect to get that from a bulb-machine? :D I wouldn't go with a digital personally, but there are 2 very valid reasons to so
1) screen sizes of 10 feet wide or wider
2) constant image height with motorized lens
If these 2 things were both on my "must have" list I would go with the RS1 with motorized anamorphic lens = $13K. Whoever told you it's poor picture quality is lying.
For your little 110" screen a fully modded 9500LC would be my personal choice for half as much money. Make sure it has both the color filtered Green and Red C elements.

Well, want to bet that digital Art bought will not be on his ceiling as long as his G90 was. It's already outdated, he may not want too, but if the next model is the next Holy Grail of DPJ's, it's easy to talk one's self into upgrading. "Lets see, I can get most of my money back out of this one, and the new MGR-8 is so much better, Hell it's only money anyways, can't take it with you".

That's the problem (well actually it's mostly a good thing) with Human Nature, always wanting the best. I know if I was into digitals, I would be swapping them out as often as I could afford too. Why hang onto the old one, use it for a year, sell it before it loses too much value and get something better. It's a no brainer, they are easy to swap out, you can get most of your money back on the old one, you do not have to mess with bulb issues, no worries about it having to repair it out of warranty, you end up with a better technology and in the end you are happier. Better yet, just lease it for a year. "Honey the ashtray is full, time to go to buy a new car":)

Deron.

Wait hold on... time out! Is your name really Bruce Wayne (aka batman)? http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/images/smilies/shock.gif

I went from a barco data 701 crt to a sanyo Z4 and I'm very happy with the image ,but so was I with the barco data 701. My main reason was ,I watch more scope movies then 16x9 and wanted to go CH for the small amount of 16x9 that I do watch. Bottom line.....whatever makes you happy. IT'S ONLY VIDEO!

Well, want to bet that digital Art bought will not be on his ceiling as long as his G90 was. It's already outdated, he may not want too, but if the next model is the next Holy Grail of DPJ's, it's easy to talk one's self into upgrading. "Lets see, I can get most of my money back out of this one, and the new MGR-8 is so much better, Hell it's only money anyways, can't take it with you".

That's the problem (well actually it's mostly a good thing) with Human Nature, always wanting the best. I know if I was into digitals, I would be swapping them out as often as I could afford too. Why hang onto the old one, use it for a year, sell it before it loses too much value and get something better. It's a no brainer, they are easy to swap out, you can get most of your money back on the old one, you do not have to mess with bulb issues, no worries about it having to repair it out of warranty, you end up with a better technology and in the end you are happier. Better yet, just lease it for a year. "Honey the ashtray is full, time to go to buy a new car":)

Deron.

Yea, but the problem is that digital (at least 3chipDLP) now has the advantage over CRT for the first time in decades (in all but absolute black level/contrast). Since digital continues to improve steadily the problem with black level/contrast will continue to disappear until there is no longer any reason to do CRT (except price). ART stayed with his G90 stack until digital finally surpassed it. I cant speak for him, but I doubt he had any loyalty to anything except the best picture money could buy at that time. Unfortunately, I will have to wait until a 1080p digital projector's price drops enough for me to switch away from my Ampro 4600 (which can only do 1080i and has many continuing issues requiring tinkering).

Chris.

What would you guys do with, say $10k? Modded Curt 9500 plus paint the ceiling and sloped walls black for even better contrast? Cough up another $12k+ and go C3X 1080? Here's my room:
http://www.audiocircle.com/systems/index.php?systemid=315

Ted,

After seeing the picture of your room, I can't believe that people are even discussing digital vs CRT (OK, yes I can ;)). You really haven't seen the black level that your Runco was capable of in an environment that reflective.

I suggest you paint the ceiling before you do anything else. Also, since it would be expensive to change the carpet, I'd paint the walls dark too.


Ken Whitcomb

Ted,

After seeing the picture of your room, I can't believe that people are even discussing digital vs CRT (OK, yes I can ;)). You really haven't seen the black level that your Runco was capable of in an environment that reflective.


Not to mention the equipment displays.

From experience a single LED in a light room is enough to blow your absolute black level. Relocating the equipment to a closet or electrical tape over the displays do wonders for black levels.

Not to mention the equipment displays.

From experience a single LED in a light room is enough to blow your absolute black level. Relocating the equipment to a closet or electrical tape over the displays do wonders for black levels.

Yes, the equipment is moving to the side wall, except for the main and center amps. And Ethan is being very open to me about possible swaps of some of my white Minitraps (I own several black, too). Now, to somehow paint or re-cover those ASC tube traps. Hmmm....

I've lived with this HT for 20 years (yes, built in 1987, way before most), and I'm open to change. It will be a quite a dramatic one, but what the heck. However, the LED displays aren't really that bad (or at least I'm not that picky I guess). I'm moving the equipment more out of clutter/a sense of openness for the 2 channel soundstage more than anything else.

Thanks all.....really. :>)

You must not be so picky about black level. :rolleyes:

I had a lightning bug fly into my HT room during a blackout scene and it ruined the whole movie ;) :D

Buy some FLAT BLACK duck tape

Erik

Which digital pj's have you seen so far?

Which digital pj's have you seen so far?
Missed to add "..& CRT's pj's" in above!!:D

Wow, kind of a late post for Cas's question. I have not seen any CRT projectors other than one at a lodge during a meeting. Not exactly reference material so we'll just forget that one. I have seen an H27, IN72, Z4 and a Panny AE-1000. I currently own the IN72 and it's great. I think I will wait untill I get a dedicated room to go the CRT route, but I would like to try another digital in my current setup.

I have not seen any CRT projectors, I currently own the IN72 and it's great.. well the first comment explains the second ;) Your currently watching a 480 pixel unit with 2k:1 contrast ratio. That's really pretty bad and even a very basic 8" machine will outperform it easilly.
I think I will wait untill I get a dedicated room to go the CRT route, but I would like to try another digital in my current setup. A dedicated room is rather important with CRT, but unless you have $4K to burn, don't waste your money on another cheap digital.

well the first comment explains the second ;) Your currently watching a 480 pixel unit with 2k:1 contrast ratio. That's really pretty bad and even a very basic 8" machine will outperform it easilly.
A dedicated room is rather important with CRT, but unless you have $4K to burn, don't waste your money on another cheap digital.

Having come from the exact same situation, I agree with both statements.

Well , even with the poor contrast ratio and the sub par black levels, for my first run in front projection I have been pleased with the IN72. I will have a CRT in my dedicated room when I get it. Maybe by then I will find one of those peice of crap G90'S for $800.00, haha. I really would like to see a CRT set up though, anyone in the North Alabama GOT A HOT SETUP?

I'm not sure who is in North Alabama but Z-photo is in Huntsville.

I don't think he's on AVS anymore but you can find him on Curt Palmes forum.

Ask him about his Bampro Monster :D ;)

I don't know if this will be helpful, but two years ago I was shopping for a projector and was invariably disappointed by every projector I saw (all digital) in a retail shop. I was lucky enough to live near overclkr and he generously let me see his G70, which had been set up by Ken Whitcomb. I have to say that I was expecting a lot, but I was still astonished at the depth and dimensionality of that image. You can bet I jumped in and have been very happy with my CRT set up. I think you are getting very good advice from the folks who are encouraging an inexpensive set up, but with the price that G70s are going for on videogon, if you could stretch to that price range and had it set up properly and in a dark environment (that's crucial, of course) you would have a set up that I think would be leagues better than any $10k digital I have ever seen. Just a thought.

Larry,

Are you running a G70?

I actually was lucky enough to get a G90, which we were able to hire Ken to set up. It was spectacular, but now, sadly in storage as we've moved and haven't yet bought a house in our new locale. But you can bet a dedicated room is a sine qua non of any new house. (And Ken would tell you that our family room was suboptimal because of its white walls. I dealt with that a bit by hanging some dark fabric adjacent to the screen for "serious" viewing, but even in that compromised state it was wonderful!)

Lucky,

I'm green with G90 envy :D

I actually was lucky enough to get a G90, which we were able to hire Ken to set up. It was spectacular, but now, sadly in storage as we've moved and haven't yet bought a house in our new locale. But you can bet a dedicated room is a sine qua non of any new house. (And Ken would tell you that our family room was suboptimal because of its white walls. I dealt with that a bit by hanging some dark fabric adjacent to the screen for "serious" viewing, but even in that compromised state it was wonderful!)

Well well, the cat has come out of the bag. :)

So how are you liking the new place? I REALLY wish you would have gotten to see the stack before you left.......

Hell, you should see the G90 on Arli's screen right now. Absolutely FABULOUS!!!! Easily clipping 17-18 foot lamberts. It's sick. The only problem is Mr. Whitcomb has to place his magic touch to the Greyscale for Arli as I at that point am like "screw it" I'm going home. :D

I'll be interested to see Ken's thoughts on my Geometry though. I'm getting pretty good at it!!!! :)

Cliffy

Well well, the cat has come out of the bag. :)

So how are you liking the new place? I REALLY wish you would have gotten to see the stack before you left.......

Hell, you should see the G90 on Arli's screen right now. Absolutely FABULOUS!!!! Easily clipping 17-18 foot lamberts. It's sick. The only problem is Mr. Whitcomb has to place his magic touch to the Greyscale for Arli as I at that point am like "screw it" I'm going home. :D

I'll be interested to see Ken's thoughts on my Geometry though. I'm getting pretty good at it!!!! :)

Cliffy

Hey, nice to hear from you, Cliff. I wanted to see it but knowing I was going to be completely without for a while (quite a while, it seems) I'm almost glad I didn't see it. Had I, the withdrawal would only have been worse! Rochester is a nice town, actually. Much smaller than Chicago but so much more accessible we're probably enjoying it more, with no traffic jams, 20 minutes to get anywhere, and often less, and an excellent theater in the George Eastman House, which shows lots of 35 mm classics from their film vault, the third largest in the US. We're there several times a week, and their brand new deluxe projector is impressive, with film grain visible from corner to corner to corner. But you know, it's bright, but the blacks aren't really BLACK. After the G90, I wonder if we should call top CRTs "film like" or top 35 mm projection "CRT like!" If you write back you may want to use my email as I'm not often on the forum and can forget to check for a while.
Cheers.

CRT will always 3 major advantages over digital:

1-Infinite motion resolution. ONly now they are incorporating motion flow (band aid) for LCD to solve the issue. DLP bit better in that respect.
2-Black
3-No digital artifact, what you feed is what you get. Native resolution for any source.

Those 3 advantages will keep the pic natural and your attention on ther movie, not the Display.

How about warm-up time? I fire up the digital on a whim and I'm good to go in a few minutes. Does CRT's take very long to warm up? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I have read where some guys "warm theirs up" for like 30 minutes before watching.

Convince me to go CRT over Digital.

Thats actually quit common. With the CRT ceiling mounted put the digital on a table right below :)

How about warm-up time? I fire up the digital on a whim and I'm good to go in a few minutes. Does CRT's take very long to warm up? Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I have read where some guys "warm theirs up" for like 30 minutes before watching.

Mine comes right on and is fully bright and running in less than a minute. Of course, things improve with the warm up process but it's not like you are sitting there waiting for it. However, you do need to wait for it to warm up if you are preparing to do convergence. I always let mine run for at least 30 minutes before attempting convergence adjustments. For everyday normal viewing though it's just power on and go. Not much different than turning on a CRT tube television.

Thats actually quit common. With the CRT ceiling mounted put the digital on a table right below :)

Alan, you are very witty lately! :D

Great, now all I need is a basement and a 3 eyed monster to put in it. I am leaning toward something around $1500.00 when I do buy. Will a G70 or Barco 12xx series do a 110" 16:9 screen?

I also saw a post the other day where someone asked about "calibrated lumens" on CRT's VS. digital but I did not see a response. I know that the "light" is different, but I'm still confused as to how it is different.

Thats actually quit common. With the CRT ceiling mounted put the digital on a table right below :)


I actually am planning to mount a digital right underneath the CRT, for gaming and kids movies. My 2 year old has yet to complain about contrast and screendoor, he just wants to watch it on the "BIG ONE". :)

I have a digital that is mounted right behind my CRT. The lens is just below the CRT.
It works. Lumen wise, that is relative. With CRT you need to keep the screen size in perspective. You can fire up a bright image (at least with my XG) but nothing like 15 FTL. Hardly even 10 ftl.
Having said that I wouldn't strain my CRT's and since contrast and dynamic range is high with CRT the dimmer pic still is very involving.
You can use a high gain screen but there are compromises to live with.

Great, now all I need is a basement and a 3 eyed monster to put in it. I am leaning toward something around $1500.00 when I do buy. Will a G70 or Barco 12xx series do a 110" 16:9 screen?

I also saw a post the other day where someone asked about "calibrated lumens" on CRT's VS. digital but I did not see a response. I know that the "light" is different, but I'm still confused as to how it is different.

$1,500 is a decent budget for an 8" CRT and you should not have a problem finding something for that if you are patient and look around. I have spent about a total of $1,200 for the 3 I have owned over the past few years. The screen size for either of those projectors you mentioned would be fine as long as you realize that you are going to need adequate control of ambient light. I would not be too concerned with specs as that is a trap of digital and not CRT. Having come from a 1000 lumen digital myself, this is what I was most concerned with after reading all of the comments about CRT not being bright enough. Now I wonder what all the concern was about. I think that my CRT is plenty bright and that's projecting onto a 9' wide screen. I don't have a basement, just an extra bedroom that I made as dark as possible. You really wont know if this is for you until you get your feet wet. It all depends on what aspect of the home theater experience is most important to you and what part of the video presentation is most important. If you want a super bright overly enhanced picture then stay with digital. If you want a more film like, high contrast, artifact free image then give CRT a try. It's never been cheaper to get into the game.