I have a Denon 3808CI and a Toshiba A35. I selected to send a bitstream via HDMI out to the receiver and the DTS-HD logo is lighting up on my Denon and sounds great. I hadn't seen much about the HD version and my local BB had it mixed in with the music DVDs today. Ive still got some calibration to do with my new set up but what Ive heard an seen tonight looked extremely good.

Also just ordered the DTS HD MA promo disc given at Cedia--anyone have this and your opinions of it. Thanks.

Mike

I have a Denon 3808CI and a Toshiba A35. I selected to send a bitstream via HDMI out to the receiver and the DTS-HD logo is lighting up on my Denon and sounds great.

Really? I thought the audio on that HD-DVD is just regular DTS, not DTS-HD nor DTS-MA. Or is there another version out that I don't know about?

If you are transmitting the signal thru 'PCM', I think you can only get the core-DTS track from it. If your HDDVD player can send out DTS-HD in raw Bitstream n your receiver can decode it, then you got it all !!!

The A35 seems to send everything DTS flagged as DTS-HD. It seems to be a bug or something. This happens on Paramount titles too where PowerDVD confirms it's only a regular DTS track.

I am looking at the back of that HD-DVD disc now. "Sound: DTS 5.1 Surround / PCM Stereo".

The DTS logo on the back of the case indicates that it's lossy DTS, pre-HDM. If it were really DTS-HD, the logo would reflect the encoding accordingly. Paramount would be in violation of the licensing agreement if they encode the audio in DTS-HD format but use the regular DTS logo.

The bit rate needs to be much higher than 1.5 Mbps to be considered as DTS-HD.

I have a Denon 3808CI and a Toshiba A35. I selected to send a bitstream via HDMI out to the receiver and the DTS-HD logo is lighting up on my Denon and sounds great. I hadn't seen much about the HD version and my local BB had it mixed in with the music DVDs today. Ive still got some calibration to do with my new set up but what Ive heard an seen tonight looked extremely good.

Also just ordered the DTS HD MA promo disc given at Cedia--anyone have this and your opinions of it. Thanks.

Mike
It's just regular good old DTS. Do you have the SD DVD to compare?

It was my understanding the HD-DVD has the same audio track as the SD-DVD, which I already own and was the reason not to justify purchasing it twice.

Don't know which PowerDVD you are using but every DTS track on HD DVD I've seen so far is actually DTS-HD. Even when its only 1.5Mbps like on Paramount titles. Of course at that bitrate its no different from normal DTS, but its still authored as DTS-HD on the disc. I'm reasonably certain this is because of the rules for mandatory codecs on HD DVD. Its the same reason why everything is DD+ instead of AC3 even when its only 192kbps on some discs.

I haven't looked at the Eagles disc personally but I think its safe to assume it is also DTS-HD regardless of its bitrate. I would say the A35 and his receiver are doing the right thing.

The U2 Rattle and Hum comes accross as "DTS" on my Integra 9.8. Pre/Pro.
The Eagles shows up as "DTS HD MSTR", same goes for Pat Metheny Groups The Wau Up- Live.

[I'm using the XA2 with FW 2.7]

The U2 Rattle and Hum comes accross as "DTS" on my Integra 9.8. Pre/Pro.
The Eagles shows up as "DTS HD MSTR", same goes for Pat Metheny Groups The Wau Up- Live.

[I'm using the XA2 with FW 2.7]

Ditto for the Cream reunion concert, DTS-HD MSTR...

Once again: all tracks are authored as DTS-HD on HD DVD. Here are some (bad) pictures of Riddick playing in PowerDVD.
Is this legitimate to author lossy audio track at 1.5 Mbps and flag it as DTS-HD?:confused:

The DTS-HD designation is confusing enough.:(

The U2 Rattle and Hum comes accross as "DTS" on my Integra 9.8. Pre/Pro.
The Eagles shows up as "DTS HD MSTR", same goes for Pat Metheny Groups The Wau Up- Live.

[I'm using the XA2 with FW 2.7]A 1.5 Mbps DTS track is flagged as DTS-HD MA?:(

A 1.5 Mbps DTS track is flagged as DTS-HD MA?:(

Could be I don't know, but it sounds freaking awesome, regardless where it is decoded, the player or Pre/pro.

On my Onkyo 805 and XA2 Riddick and Sky Captain show up as standard DTS.

Question on the Eagles hddvd. Using my XA2 and Onkyo 805 and using bitstream DTS-HD Master at exactly 23 minutes 40 seconds during "I can't tell you why" I get a load clipping sound. It is the same every time. If I change this to PCM out from the player which I believe would be standard DTS at that point it does not occur. It does not occur as DTS through the spdif either. Has anyone else noticed this?

DTS-HD does not automatically mean lossless. There are two forms of DTS-HD. One is called "DTS-HD High Resolution" and the other is called "DTS-HD Master Audio". The former is lossy and the latter is lossless. The terminology is confusing because people use "DTS-HD" to refer to one or the other, or to both together. The solution is to always use the full names. So Riddick and Aeon Flux are DTS-HD-HR at 1.5Mbps (which is essentially the same as normal DTS at 1.5Mbps). Studio Canal titles in Europe are DTS-HD-MA lossless.

Heres a chart that can help sort it all out:
http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php

I understand DTS-HD can mean both HRA and MA. I'm questioning why regular DTS encoded at 1.5 Mbps shows up as DTS-HD or DTS-HD MA, depending on player/receiver combination and PowerDVD's ability to decipher the codec correctly. How do you know Aeon Flux is actually DTS-HD HRA? If you put the French T2 w/ DTS-HD MA in your rig, does PowerDVD say DTS-HD or DTS-HD MA and at what bit rate?

Question on the Eagles hddvd. Using my XA2 and Onkyo 805 and using bitstream DTS-HD Master at exactly 23 minutes 40 seconds during "I can't tell you why" I get a load clipping sound. It is the same every time. If I change this to PCM out from the player which I believe would be standard DTS at that point it does not occur. It does not occur as DTS through the spdif either. Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes, I had the same thing. I thought it was momentary power issue or something. Freaked me out.I guess then it wasn't a power issue. This could be a "proof" that this is a true DTS HD MA track via HDMI, since the player can't decode it but the core only and the popping sound isn't there.

I wonder if the clipping is in the receiver or it is the disc. If anyone else has a Pioneer, Denon, etc. let us know if it is there. The Integra is a suped up Onkyo so I wouldn't expect it to be different.

I'm almost positive it's on the disc. Most decoding issues start with "bad encode", but of course I could be wrong.

Is there anyway to confirm that this is a true DTS-HD/MA track or that it's being flagged improperly? My A35 to my Integra DTR 8.8 is showing DTS-HD/MA....and it sounds really good.

Well then who cares, sound good what does matter to me. YMMV.

Well then who cares, sound good what does matter to me. YMMV.

It's a curiousity thing. :) It would be the only disc I've seen so far that has not been properly logo'd with the DTS-HD Master Audio moniker.

First of all, I had reported previously (another thread) of having uncorrectable lip sync issues with this title (Eagles Farewell 1). Since getting my Pioneer VSX-94TXH and installing firmware 2.7 (Bitstream) on my Toshiba XA2, I am pleased to report that my problems with lip sync are gone!!!

That out of the way...

I discovered something interesting due to this thread. When I would turn on the title's DTS audio, it would simply show as "PCM 96kbps" on my Pioneer 94TXH's display. It sounded fine, and I could clearly hear a difference between the DTS audio and the Stereo audio, but in both cases the Pioneer simply displayed "PCM 96kbps". So, the comments above had me looking at my XA2's settings. The only thing I could see that might be possibly wrong is that SPDIF on the XA2 was set to PCM. But I'm not using the SPDIF connection so I never bothered to worry about it. Once I turned on "Direct Digital Audio Mode" in firmware 2.7, I thought the other settings for SPDIF and HDMI were redundant.

Apparently not... because, when I set the SPDIF setting to Bitstream and the Eagles disc to the DTS track, my Pioneer 94TXH now displays "DTS-HD MSTR". And I'll tell you what, it sounds INCREDIBLE!!!

So, it appears that I've had my XA2's SPDIF set up incorrectly since getting firmware 2.7. But what is weird... other HD DVD titles I've played have CORRECTLY shown the audio format (DD+ and DD True HD) on my Pioneer 94TXH!?!

Toshiba has done something weird with the way the various audio setup features interact with each other. That was proven when we discovered that the SPDIF settings made a difference for bass management, even when using the analog jacks or HDMI for audio output.

Bottom line... with my Toshiba XA2 set for "SPDIF: Bitstream" and "Direct Digital Audio Mode: ON", the Eagles disc sounds better than it ever has before!

Oh... I also checked for any clipping at 23m40s in "I can't tell you why". Both with with SPDIF set to Bitstream and PCM. I don't get ANY clipping sound whatsoever. I played a full 30 seconds on either side of that mark and didn't hear anything abnormal.

Edit: One thought on the clipping sound.... I have the speaker settings in the Pionner 94TXH set to "Small" speakers. This pushes everything in the main channels below 75hz to my Velodyne sub. Perhaps the clipping is caused by an extremely low note in the main channels and I'm not hearing it because it goes to the sub? Just a thought?

Edit again: DAMN this thing sounds good in DTS-HD Master!! I had actually preferred the Stereo track to the DTS Surround track when listening via PCM over HDMI. I just didn't find the DTS surround to be enveloping enough. It was more of a distraction to me. But listening to it via the (indicated) DTS-HD Master audio is quite another story! I feel like I'm sitting right in the middle of the audience with all of the acoustical characteristics of the auditorium at play! Freakin' awesome!!!! This disc just elevated from being one of disappointment (lip sync issues) to an absolute favorite!!!!

Mark

P.S. The way they set up the menu on this Eagle's disc to select "Stereo" or "DTS" is kinda wacky! You click on "DTS Surround 5.1 OFF" to turn it ON! Same with Stereo. You click on "Stereo Off" to turn it ON. Wacky!

when I set the SPDIF setting to Bitstream and the Eagles disc to the DTS track, my Pioneer 94TXH now displays "DTS-HD MSTR". And I'll tell you what, it sounds INCREDIBLE!!!


Thank you Mark for your update.

This isn't very good marketing, they have DTS HD-MA on this disc, and they don't tell anyone about it! We need a HD-DVD player that can decode DTS HD-MA, because I don't want to have to buy another receiver (mine only handles PCM via HDMI). I agree, the way you select the audio on this disc is not intuitive.

I discovered the DTS-HD Master Pop on the Eagles Farewell disc about 10 days ago right after 2.7 firmware update. I called Toshiba and of couse they said it was a disc problem which it may be...who can tell? Have tried the PCM Multichannel and like the rest discovered that it does not POP at 23:40. I still prefere the DTS-HD Master track to the PCM Multichannel. Some have suggested this is a volume issue which it may be, but in my hearing the DTS-HD Master is fuller, more front stage sounding. Here is a question for input. In the XA2 in the speaker settings I have set the speaker sizes and distances for my room. Would I be better leaving them un-set? I am using an Integra dtr-8.8 receiver. How does setting or leaving unset effect the processing between the player and the receiver. I know enough to get in trouble! Oh I did try the suggestion of setting all the speaker sizes to small to aviod the POP, but my definitives still POPPED. Well comments anyone?

hot dog! I did not even check the front panel of my Integra 9.8, but I was thinking the clarity for lossy DTS was outstanding on this disk. I just chalked it up to additional b/w on HD DVD.

after readng this thread, I pop in the HD DVD, and wham, DTS-HD MA is right there on my 9.8 display.....my first MA disk.....

The audio, and video on this disk is just incredible......

It is surpising that they did not market this as being on the disk as someone else said....

Question on the Eagles hddvd. Using my XA2 and Onkyo 805 and using bitstream DTS-HD Master at exactly 23 minutes 40 seconds during "I can't tell you why" I get a load clipping sound. It is the same every time. If I change this to PCM out from the player which I believe would be standard DTS at that point it does not occur. It does not occur as DTS through the spdif either. Has anyone else noticed this?

same here. looks like the disk for sure. really wakes you up!

Question on the Eagles hddvd. Using my XA2 and Onkyo 805 and using bitstream DTS-HD Master at exactly 23 minutes 40 seconds during "I can't tell you why" I get a load clipping sound. It is the same every time. If I change this to PCM out from the player which I believe would be standard DTS at that point it does not occur. It does not occur as DTS through the spdif either. Has anyone else noticed this?

Yes, I had the same thing. I thought it was momentary power issue or something. Freaked me out.I guess then it wasn't a power issue. This could be a "proof" that this is a true DTS HD MA track via HDMI, since the player can't decode it but the core only and the popping sound isn't there.

I discovered the DTS-HD Master Pop on the Eagles Farewell disc about 10 days ago right after 2.7 firmware update. I called Toshiba and of couse they said it was a disc problem which it may be...who can tell? Have tried the PCM Multichannel and like the rest discovered that it does not POP at 23:40. I still prefere the DTS-HD Master track to the PCM Multichannel. Some have suggested this is a volume issue which it may be, but in my hearing the DTS-HD Master is fuller, more front stage sounding. Here is a question for input. In the XA2 in the speaker settings I have set the speaker sizes and distances for my room. Would I be better leaving them un-set? I am using an Integra dtr-8.8 receiver. How does setting or leaving unset effect the processing between the player and the receiver. I know enough to get in trouble! Oh I did try the suggestion of setting all the speaker sizes to small to aviod the POP, but my definitives still POPPED. Well comments anyone?
Nice to see I'm not only one with this problem. I have been using the Onkyo 705 and A-35 with same pop, and mine is very loud and sounds more like coming from the bass more than the mains. I just upgraded to the Onkyo 805 and still get same loud pop, so has to be the A-35 and the disc. Until Toshiba gets this fixed I will have to go into setup when I play this disc and select PCM for HDMI output and I actually like the 2.0 default audio best anyway. The loud pop I get makes me very reluctant to select any DTS sound tracks on any HD discs at all. At least all the Dolby+ and THD tracks don't do this, thank goodness.

Interesting that others are experiencing the pop issue when it plays fine for me. Perhaps someone experiencing the pop issue could get together with someone that isn't experiencing it and try each other's disc to see if it is truly a disc problem?

Mark

Interesting that others are experiencing the pop issue when it plays fine for me. Perhaps someone experiencing the pop issue could get together with someone that isn't experiencing it and try each other's disc to see if it is truly a disc problem?

Mark
What receiver and player are you using, and are you using bitstream HBR?

The reason I say it must be disc and A-35 is because my Panasonic BD30 plays all DTS tracks perfectly and this was with the 705 and now the 805, and of course I'm talking HBR bitstream over HDMI.

Finally checked out this disc with PowerDVD Ultra. It's indeed DTS-HD Master Audio even though the packaging indicated otherwise. The audio bit rate is 4000 to 6000 kbps (VBR)!:)

incorrect post. sorry

Finally checked out this disc with PowerDVD Ultra. It's indeed DTS-HD Master Audio even though the packaging indicated otherwise. The audio bit rate is 4000 to 6000 kbps (VBR)!:)

Great news! Has anyone done a direct comparison between the 3 tracks: regular DTS, PCM stereo, and DTS HD/MA? If MA really sounds much better, I would upgrade my equipment just for this one disc.

I've compared all three tracks. The DTS HD MA track is CLEARLY the superior of the three. I can practically hear the audience breathing! :)

Mark

I will confirm that DTS HD MA shows on my new Denon 3808CI when being played via my Tosh XA2 fw2.7.

Sounds incredible! :cool:

I will confirm that DTS HD MA shows on my new Denon 3808CI when being played via my Tosh XA2 fw2.7.

Sounds incredible! :cool:

Thank you. Depending on what gets announced this week at CES, I may look on eBay for someone dumping their XA2 in an unreasonable fit of panic.

Read this over and popped it in tonight as a pick-me-up - older Onkyo TX-SR901 with Multi-channel hookups to my A1 - but this does sound fantastic. One of my favorites to demo, and not just for the great picture quality!