Hi...

I am new to the MAC world with my new MacBook (2.2Ghz, 2Gig). I purchased an HD HomeRun and also EyeTV 2.5.1. Very cool that I can watch and record HDTV like this on my MacBook.

In any case, I use Windows Media Center in all rooms of my home currently. I record and watch show in any room. Interface is very nice for this as you may know. So at this point I can record using my MacBook (And will buy a Mini's if I can do what I need) but need a nice way to be able to get to the shows.

Right now Front Row is a great looking interface, however, it does not see the files made by EyeTV. The EyeTV MENU software does not even have a choice to playback recorded shows unless I totally missed it. Thus having to use the other menu just seems like going backwards.

So I guess my question are these...

Is their some other software I should be using with the HD HomeRun to record Hi-Def shows for play back in say Front Row? Can I do what I am looking to do with EyeTV and I just do not know it?

I would like to be able to store the recordings on my NAS servers for playback in any room with a MacMini or AppleTV. I am doing all this testing on my MacBook.

Thoughts?

I am new to the MAC world

that's the dead giveaway, start writing "Mac" world.

In any case, I use Windows Media Center in all rooms of my home currently. I record and watch show in any room. Interface is very nice for this as you may know.

Most of us don't, actually--the last thing we'd ever run is Windows anything. Very nice that Intel Macs give one that option, but probably 2/3 of us have never personally experienced MCE, nor plan to.


Right now Front Row is a great looking interface, however, it does not see the files made by EyeTV. The EyeTV MENU software does not even have a choice to playback recorded shows unless I totally missed it. Thus having to use the other menu just seems like going backwards.

Better integration between Front Row and EyeTV has long been requested--there was a previous release of EyeTV that emulated and integrated recordings within FR better, but that was squelched pretty quickly by El Gato, undoubtedly after Apple caught wind. To go to FR or play back EyeTV recordings using the Apple remote, a "Menu" button press goes to Front Row, a press and hold of the "Menu" button enters the the EyeTV full screen menu. First thing listed is "Live TV," just go down one line to "recordings," press "play" and everything you've recorded will be there. There's an exit menu command which'll take you back to your desktop, then click "Menu" to go back to FR if you want. I don't use FR or the EyeTV fullscreen menu very much, but there are other ways to deal with it.

Is their some other software I should be using with the HD HomeRun to record Hi-Def shows for play back in say Front Row? Can I do what I am looking to do with EyeTV and I just do not know it?

Exit FR (press menu)
Enter EyeTV fullscreen (long menu press)
scroll down ("-" key press to "recordings")
press play (to see your list of recordings)
scroll down to a title and press play

Are you able to do that?

I would like to be able to store the recordings on my NAS servers for playback in any room with a MacMini or AppleTV.

Well, you won't be playing them back on an aTV unless you convert them, but with Macs and your license you should be fine. Other HD Homerun users are using a NAS to store EyeTV recordings to be played back in multiple locations. So this might go back to your other thread--is EyeTV on your Macbook seeing your archive of recordings on your NAS?

Hi...

Thanks for all your help.

The issue I did have with the EyeTV menu is that when I first start EyeTV it starts to play Live TV. As such, when I pressed MENU it gave me the live TV menu and I thought that was the main menu. <BONK> I did not know to back up one level for the main menu which I then can see the recorded shows. So I can do this now with seeing the main menu which is great.

Alas, it would have been nice to have all my media in one nice menu like in Front Row. Thus music, TV, Movies, Photos. It is amazing that Apple does not have this all setup already for recording and that have you. Even the play back of live TV. That I have to go to a separate program to do just the TV things just seems, well, backwards.

I have not yet setup for the NAS, I have been doing all the playing on the MacBook currently.

Love the Mac. Hate though how I seems not have to make things like this work and Apple is not set for this. It seems that their thought it you must do all though iTunes including paying for TV.

Side note...What was wring with Mac World?

Thanks

Apple-Macintosh is abbreviated as Mac. M.A.C. is an acronym for something else (routers, modems, etc.,). No biggie, actually.

Ok, getting though this slowly. Yes, very weird using this simple remote to do things. Even more when you hit menu and it then brings you to Front Row. :)

So, I have been able to set a show to record and it does so nicely. Question, how can I then tell it to record all NEW shows of that same Title? Example... Record "The Unit" when new. (Vs rerun)

I looked in the FAQ on the EyeTV site but could not find a reference.

Thanks

So, I have been able to set a show to record and it does so nicely. Question, how can I then tell it to record all NEW shows of that same Title? Example... Record "The Unit" when new. (Vs rerun)

You can't. Eyetv records based on time and not by title or status. Its one of many requested features that elgato continues to place as "low priority".

chefklc: ...but probably 2/3 of us have never personally experienced MCE, nor plan to.

Thats a shame, if one thing microsoft has done beautifully, its MCE.

David, good, glad that's working now. Poke around a little more in EyeTV preferences and settings--you don't have to have it "open live tv" if you don't want it to, there's a default preference you can change so it always goes to the full screen menu, etc. El Gato has some good FAQs on their website you can peruse as well, and soon will have their own support forum.

Just bear in mind, an EyeTV isn't a Tivo, there are certain patented proprietary aspects of the "Tivo experience" that will never be ported over to the EyeTV experience, nor to other DVRs, no matter the number of user requests--unless they pay to license them. The Tivo season pass implementation, it's ability to remember which episodes you've already recorded, and to weight or prioritize season passes, I believe are all uniquely Tivo--and won't be coming to EyeTV anytime soon.

Alas, it would have been nice to have all my media in one nice menu like in Front Row. Thus music, TV, Movies, Photos. It is amazing that Apple does not have this all setup already for recording and that have you. Even the play back of live TV. That I have to go to a separate program to do just the TV things just seems, well, backwards.

Apple would prefer you buy your television programs from iTS.

I'm afraid it's just the nature of the beast with Apple and OS X, David, and within this forum there's often dissatisfaction with Apple's progress and an impatience with their direction, if you will--what seems so obvious to us as home theater types often conflicts with the path Apple is leading the mainstream home user down. Nothing new. Apple came later to this party than the Windows/Microsoft side, it's managed to avoid some pitfalls, it handles some other aspects wonderfully, superior to the Windows side, and lags with others--and one area that still lags a bit in OS X is a MCE-type front end which "does it all" and can be infinitely tweaked and plugged.

On the flip side, while we don't have a perfectly integrated front end yet, there have been other notable home theater advantages with OS X and Macs: we've been recording high def over firewire via STBs and via QAM much more easily and for far longer than the Windows side, and OS X has long dominated the professional audio/audiophile end of things.

No matter how you slice and dice it, every user, depending on their priorities and their experience, will come away with a slightly different impression of how well Apple is doing. Then we meet somewhere in the middle and help get better at what we're trying to accomplish. That little Apple remote is an example--coming from a Harmony remote concept that little thing seems WAY inadequate. But then you start using the thing, start liking the feel and stripped down nature of it, find out how you can extend its functionality ever further...and new doors open up.

You never know when that's gonna happen...

Love the Mac. Hate though how I seems not have to make things like this work and Apple is not set for this. It seems that their thought is you must do all though iTunes including paying for TV.

Bingo. That's because someone at home with an iPod likes and understands iTunes, so if an aTV works like an iPod, and iTunes can be used for video in addition to music, more people might actually be able to do some of this home theater stuff without endless tweaking, resolving driver conflicts, and time taken away for maintenance rather than enjoyment. Remember, we're in the distinct minority--that we bend Macs and OS X to our HT will as much as we do, and as quickly as we have, is something.

It's hard to begrudge Apple for the paths they've taken to date--they're quite profitable.

As an alternative to Front Row, one that I've used on a pre-Front Row Mac is XHub at www.snarb.tk which directly accesses EyeTV. There is a trial version.

Downloading XHub now. Looks very, very promising.

Yes, as far as not being able to setup to reoccurring shows, I do not buy that. Media Center can do it, ReplayTV, Cable DVRs, etc. I do not recall it being a TiVo only area that one needs to license. Some aspects sure, but in general? (Could be 100% wrong though.)

All in all I am also on the sad side that I wanted so bad to replace my Win machies with all Mac's, but I run into things like the above. :( Sad to see.

Going to try XHub now. :)

Dang it...Installed XHub and it says it will not run on 10.5. I wish it would have checked it before it would install. I did not see any reference to this on their site either.

Although, for reasons that I don't understand, most Mac users prefer EyeTV, there are now two other possibilities that might be better for you: ATI has a hi-def Mac product here: http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonder650/usbmac/index.html

and SageTV also has a Mac product here:
http://sagetv.com/sagetvMac.html?sageSub=tv

Someone in the SageTV forum has written a free program or script that will let you use your HD-Homerun with SageTV. If you are interested, I will find the link for you to read.

IAC, either of these might supply the features you are looking for. Good luck!

Hi...

Thanks. Yes, it would need to be able to use the HD HomeRun in order to record.

I just found the beta of XHub for 10.5 and installed it, that does not seem to be the solution either as it really messes up DVD playback and EyeTV just did not work with it. (It would start, but in the background.)

Question...How does one uninstall such an app? It is not in the applications directory for just a trash, it is now part of the System Preferences.

Well, David, I'm sorry but, it may not be quite as simple as I remembered. The thread is here: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26826, however, it currently only works with a firewire-connected cable box. SageTV, however, from what I read on their site, does have the feature you want (to record a season of shows). From their forum, it seems that a lot of users want to be able to use HD-Homerun on Macs and it is supported under SageTV for Windows.

Question...How does one uninstall such an app? It is not in the applications directory for just a trash, it is now part of the System Preferences.

David - If it never made into Applications; Just delete any files that may have made it to the following areas:
'UserHome'/Library/Applications Support/
'SystemHardrive'/Library/Applications Support/

If you have something in the Preferences Pane - it can be remove here:
'SystemHardrive'/Library/PreferencePane


ken

Here's how to remove Xhub:

Simply remove the XHub preference pane. Open System Preferences, option-click on the XHub icon and select "Remove". You should quit XHub before removing the preference pane.

Thanks.

I just wish multimedia on the mac in regards to how we would use it would be available. ;) Even the other products mentioned does not work with such gear as the HDHomeRun. Even Media Center works with it. Augh.

Still like the MacBook, just getting frustrated at using it like I had hoped.

I just wish multimedia on the mac in regards to how we would use it would be available.

David, plenty of us with deep knowledge of more traditional home theater feel Macs handle our household "multimedia" needs brilliantly, with little need for ongoing maintenance, network oversight or downtime. We're quite happy to be right where we are, even though certain aspects within the OS X home theater could still be improved--and you've nailed one of them. The "all inclusive infinitely-variable front end is all" crowd doesn't stay in OS X long.

A lot of Windows types feel the way you do, usually with no meaningful time spent on the platform, and with no hands on experience, so kudos to you David for getting your feet wet, asking questions, and in the process determining what your real priorities are. It just may turn out that OS X can't meet your priorities and, frankly, some of us who stay in OS X accept compromises to do so. Realize, though, Apple just released Leopard, so much will shake out in the coming weeks, and historically Apple doesn't do things the way Microsoft has conditioned you to think things should work with PCs and Windows--though Macs can function as excellent Windows PCs and a mini, for instance, makes an ideal extender.

If you stay on the platform, and I encourage you to give it more time and try to nail down exactly what it is that you're dissatisfied with, eventually you'll have to balance that against what it is that's driving you to Macs in the first place, and why you're considering replacing your Windows boxes with Macs and aTVs.

We'll keep helping where we can.

... Even the other products mentioned does not work with such gear as the HDHomeRun. Even Media Center works with it. Augh.

Not sure to which product you're referring here. Anyway, this thread led me to try out SageTV yesterday night (that's on a G5, using OS X 10.4.10) and I was positively surprised how well the thing handles. It immediately recognized my HDhomerun (there's a link on the sage beta forum to a new beta version for the mac which supports the homerun), channel setup was a bliss and it downloaded program guide in an instant (no mucking around like eyetv does all the time (for me, half the time I try to download titantv guides it fails)).
What impresses me most about sageTV is the ability to configure its remote control - I haven't tried too much but it seems you can configure it to respond to any key combinations (and thus use a good remote to control it) - this is in my opinion the biggest drawback of eyetv - its crappy full screen menu and the lack of customization options.

The bad about sageTV: image quality is disapointing. I watched the local PBS station in HD (which I record all the time using eyetv) and the picture was significantly less crisp, there were motion artifacts and pixelizations. I've no idea how that's possible since it's just an MPEG2 stream its decoding and displaying. But then, I also noticed that it's much much more processor intensive than eyetv (on a G5/2.3 it used one processor at 100% for playback 1080i - this takes a lot less using eyetv). It might very well be that this is the reason for the lesser image quality....

Anyway, I wanted to share this. Now I'm even more ambivalent about eyetv and its limitation.... oh what I would give for an eyetv that's customizable and full integration with frontrow.... something to dream about. Sorry for the Monday morning rant.

As you can see, David, we are all very happy to have someone like Chefklc around not only to help newcomers with questions and problems, but for so clearly and beautifully writing our shared thoughts.

I cannot say any better what he has written, but I would just add that, while Microsoft has been in the htpc business for at least five years, Apple is quite new to it (two years?). And yet, in those two years, Apple developed the Mini, which even some Windows users consider one of the best htpcs available (running Windows, of course), as well as the iPod and iTunes and Front Row.

We have also seen SageTV introduce a Mac version, and ATI and other formerly Windows-only companies also making products for the Mac now. So, as Chefklc wrote, we're getting there and we're getting there pretty quickly. Most of us are willing to wait -- I hope you will too.

David-

In your scheduled EyeTV recordings, have it export each recording. Then, place an alias to the exported directory in ~/Movies. You will then be able to access all your exported recordings in FrontRow. This is what I do. The drawback of course, is that it takes a while to export a program and takes up more disk space.

Ok, Now have SageTV installed, the BETA version that has HD HomeRun support even though I an not get it to work. It sees the HD HomeRun and can even find the channels and shows 100% strength, but alas, no video or audio.

SageTV thus far seems to hold the most promise. For I can also see my movies and play them Well, kind of. Well, maybe. Sometimes. If I go to full screen, audio only and I can not get back to the windowed view. Sometimes in a window I get a video that is 1/8 the size of my screen. ;)

I am still messing with it, but the interface is very nice. But really need the HD stations to work so I can try some recording.

Just a reminder, doing this all on my MacBook.

Will still no luck with the Beta. Also can not seem to run DVD in full screen mode or the screen just goes black. Audio, no video, no easy way to get get back out without just Option Q.

Still messing around. Anyone with a HDHR and SageTV?

a handful of Mac people experimenting with SageTV hang here:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=40

Thanks, yes, found that and been looking around. Sorry to say nothing really to find about any of the above thus far. Then again, it is beta. Still hopeful.

Sorry to say nothing really to find about any of the above thus far.

Right, but I didn't want to pre-judge that for you. None of the AVS regulars here who have already been recording high def for years, at least none that I'm aware of, consider SageTV worth the time and effort yet.

When you've been on Macs for a while, it's natural to develop higher expectations for how you interact with your machines. A pretty interface can't trump comments like "I can also see my movies and play them...Well, kind of...Well, maybe. Sometimes."

And all these supposed competitors of El Gato, those that have popped up recently, or those like Miglia that have decided to go their own way, all they have demonstrated so far is just how good El Gato really is, and has been, for years.

I hinted at this a little earlier, David, but if you're one of those "front end is all" types, I can save you a lot of time: you're not going to be happy in OS X yet, there's no clearly superior front end or media center. If you're prepared to be a little flexible, and can see more of the forest for the trees, you just might be.

Given that OS X dominates in terms of front-end beauty and utility, and given that this has historically been one of Apple's biggest strengths, I would have to imagine that Apple will eventually address the needs that David identifies.

Currently what we are seeing out of Apple is a very "iPod-centric" approach. The AppleTV is just a big iPod you can connect to your TV with no clean integration options for including live television or a wide range of outside recorded content. Consequently, there is a large market space that Apple is not addressing at present. Perhaps the Apple vision is that we will all one day only watch what is available on iTunes or YouTube, but I would be surprised if they are not seriously looking at such things as IPTV, movie rental downloads, premium HD content, etc.

The goal would be to have all of these things integrated together in an interface and application that are seamless and easily usable by even the less-tech-savy user. That fits very nicely with the Apple image, don't you think?

chefklc...

Yes, EyeTV works well for what it does, but it is missing one of the most used items of a PVR, that being the ability to say record all shows. That is just one thing. But yes, it is also not to much for a product made for the Mac to have a better looking interface. :)

But not being able to set it once and forget makes it a no show for myself.

SageTV does a lot as you know, just seems to have some issues currently at least in the beta I have.

All in all I keep moving slowly along. I had to use my other Dell notebook for about a hour today, and well, did not enjoy it. :)

This all goes to the fundamentals of what Apple wants Front Row to be. To Apple Front Row is more or less an iPod along the lines of what BTDT posted. Apple's own Music/Video store clouds the issue somewhat. Apple's idea of a "HTPC" is essentially what the AppleTV ships as, i.e. a media extender for purchased content from the iTunes store. Having a stake in content production/distribution always seems to cripple hardware manufacturers to some degree. Witness Sony and the insistence of their Music division on decimating every vestige of capability from their PMP's in order to maintain their perceived control over the digital rights. Sony couldn't make the best players they wanted they could only make the best players the music division allowed for which essentially means a crippled device no one wants.

Apple is in a somewhat better position with being in distribution instead of the production end but they still have to answer to the labels when it comes to fear of the abuse and or circumvention of digital rights, witness the iPhone's ringtones situation. Elgato did have a decent solution a few versions ago when they released their first full-screen interface which gave the ability to call upon Front Row from within in a seamless fashion. The problem was that it was almost a dead ringer for Front Row's black interface and I have a feeling they got a call from Apple Legal about that. The sad thing about this whole situation is I think Apple is never going to embrace the TV tuner aspect of HTPC's style devices. Recording your own content is antithetical to their collective vision of the future of content distribution.

This may make it sound like I am the purveyor of doom and gloom but I feel quite the contrary. I use a two Mac set-up at home where my Mac Pro does all the recording and storage while my Core Duo mini does all the payback on my Plasma. The biggest area of concern for me WRT Elgato's EyeTV is that I would like the ability to use multiple drives for my archive because after years of use I have accumulated TB's worth of recordings and no single drive is going to cut it for me. I do wish there was a QT plugin that allowed for playback of EyeTV HD recordings so I could natively play them in Front Row or QT as well.

Jerry C.

Jerry you are so right an the thinking I fear as I was also drawing the same conclusions in regards to the Apple model. And yes, Front Row seems to be nothing more than an extension of the same things all revolving around iTunes. Sad, for they could do it all.

Thus is why I am looking for another mac app and so why many companies are coming out to play in this area. EyeTV is nice, but it is just not their. SageTV has it all, but is still working on the Mac platform.

All in all, hi hopes.

I personally am in a "wait and see" mode with Apple and its home media strategy. Even with an iPod-centric strategy there are obvious holes currently, one of which is the lack of HD content on iTunes. Another is the lack of a movie rental capability. The lack of live/recorded content support may currently be intentional, but the other two seem to be completely consistent with the current closed model. (I guess one piece of good news is Leopard-FrontRow's direct support for ripped DVD content)

The problem with a closed model is that it makes it difficult to impossible for anyone else to fill these kinds of holes for you. The advantage, as made clear in Apple's case, is that you can provide a well-controlled, high quality experience. The open model, as demonstrated by Microsoft, can lead to a lot more inconsistency and possible quality problems. Which is better? I guess if you are a "get your hands dirty" type then the open model is quite reasonable. If you are Joe typical consumer then the closed model is all that you will ever use, but it has to meet what you consider to be your basic needs.

I think Steve Jobs is thinking of the typical consumer when he tries to build a complete quality experience. He is not worried about us "bit twiddlers" who are trying to do something more complicated than the average Joe. So, if/when Apple does meet the complete home media needs we are talking about here it will be in a manner that your grandma could setup (maybe with a bit of help). I certainly hope they are working on this....

OK, I tried the SageTV Beta. Very nice interface and lots of features. I also received the black screen upon return from full-screen. No big deal there; apparently it's a known bug since Leopard and they'll fix that in the next Beta (according to the forums @ SageTV). But the biggest problem is it's lack of ability to display a HD feed from the HDHR without skipping or stuttering. It looked horrible! By contrast, EyeTV can display two HD feeds with no issues. It's probably my imagination, but my EyeTV's PQ looks better than my HD-TiVo, at least to me. Sage isn't ready for primetime yet, but once they get these issues worked out, it may be the one.

Hi...

100% the same here! I did get the HDHR to work, but yes, the stuttering. Ouch! And I also agree, the image quality is also not as good, and by that I mean pretty far off, from EyeTV.

I glad you tried it, thank you, for I was wondering about the stuttering and if it was just me.

Definitely not just you. They're probably aware of the problem, but we should both post our PQ experiences over on their forums. I plan to.

Hopefully competition from SageTV will force Elgato to improve their recording capabilities.

Well, I just tried DVD playback from the Videos area, well, some small issues in video with that also. As well as the lower quality video look.

Yes, I think we need to register and get involved. (Not like I do not have enough to do here. LOL)