Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 14

The_Jackalope

09-12-08, 02:07 AM

Thanks for the reading so far, very insightful. I've got a bit of a rambling description of where I am now with some specific questions at the end

I'm looking at getting an HTPC for my LN46A650 (bought in part because of the good press here!). I don't need anything too demanding just yet, but I'd like to keep my options open for BluRay, gaming (nice for a while, but not top of the line), and a decent speaker system down the line without having to replace anything. For now I'll be looking to play HD x264 files primarily and the speakers aren't anything special and we don't have too many inputs so I'm running everything into the TV. I plan to get a receiver when I decide to bite the bullet on speakers.

For now I think I can handle deciding on the following:
Probably Antec Fusion 430 (it's pretty, and I like being able to really incorporate the PC into my setup, which leads me more to micro. And it's pretty)
2x2 GB RAM (get whatever is appropriate for motherboard)
SATA HD (easy enough to figure out)

Unsure:
For processor what I've been reading online makes me lean to Intel, either E7300 or E8400 (leaning a bit towards the E8400 for when I get a vid card for games) That means...
The two mobos that are mentioned here are
1) ABIT I-N73HD
2) ASUS P5Q-EM
The ABIT is a good deal cheaper and I'm guessing that comes from the RAM and the chipset. However, I'm skeptical of needing more than 4 GB of RAM in the future without needing to rebuild several parts of the HTPC anyway and given my A) somewhat limited use currently and B) Intention to get a video card down the line I'm not clear what the ASUS board actually gets me for ~$50 more.

I like the option of using LPCM audio out through the Radeon cards for later, but since I don't have quality speakers or a game I'm burning to play just yet I don't see a reason I need any of that now (but I'd like to avoid cutting myself off). I'm still unsure of the whole audio scene, so if I'm just latching onto the LPCM buzzword and ignoring other viable options, please set me straight.

Here are my questions (any other suggestions welcome, of course):
1) Given what I'm going for, does the ASUS board get me anything for the extra cost?
2) Will these boards be able to fit (sizewise...the danger of microATX) a video card like the 4870 if I want to add that later.
3) Can I play most x264 HD content with the onboard video until I get the video card?
4) With onboard, would I just be plugging HDMI into the TV and it would handle video/sound (from what I understand, yes)

Thanks for your time!

renethx

09-12-08, 02:53 AM

1) Given what I'm going for, does the ASUS board get me anything for the extra cost?
2) Will these boards be able to fit (sizewise...the danger of microATX) a video card like the 4870 if I want to add that later.
3) Can I play most x264 HD content with the onboard video until I get the video card?
4) With onboard, would I just be plugging HDMI into the TV and it would handle video/sound (from what I understand, yes)
1) The biggest drawback of I-N73HD is single-channel memory controller. If you want the best peformance in gaming, you'd better choose P5Q-EM.
2) HD 4850 is OK, but HD 4870 (241mm long; 5mm longer than 4850) is perhaps too tight in Fusion (max card lenth 250mm, but you have to consider the power connectors). If you cut out the wall a bit, it will fit.
3) Yes. With E8400, playing most x264 HD contents is not difficult (easy in many cases) with onboard video (GeForce 7100 or G45).
4) Yes.

GeForce 9300 is coming soon (late September) that replaces GeForce 7100. 9300 supports dual-channel memory and onboard video is expected to be comparable with G45, and is perhaps cheap (< $100).

The_Jackalope

09-12-08, 10:29 AM

Thanks! One more video card size concern: motherboard? The ASUS has a heatsink that looks like it could block a video card the size of the HD4870 (or maybe it's just the angle). Do I have to worry about the motherboard causing issues as well as the case?

renethx

09-12-08, 10:57 AM

One more video card size concern: motherboard? The ASUS has a heatsink that looks like it could block a video card the size of the HD4870 (or maybe it's just the angle). Do I have to worry about the motherboard causing issues as well as the case?
The heatsink on the southbridge is <10mm tall, that won't block any expansion card.

mcpfrid

09-12-08, 11:06 AM

Any recomendations on where to find the Fusion Remote Black? Not much out there. I found the case here;

http://www.provantage.com/antec-fusionremoteblack~AANTG053.htm

Not familiar with Provantage and they don't carry in stock, they order from Antec. There delivery times is as follows;

Place your order with us and we will get it for you as quickly as possible.:confused:

renethx

09-12-08, 11:20 AM

Any recomendations on where to find the Fusion Remote Black?
Fusion Remote Black was just released and may not be available yet at retail stores. You can buy Fusion 430 Black instead (comes with a 430W PSU but no remote control). PROVANTAGE is a good retailer.

d60pdp

09-12-08, 01:17 PM

Not familiar with Provantage and they don't carry in stock, they order from Antec.

I bought Fusion Remote Silver from them. Delivered in 2 days.

jim tressler

09-12-08, 03:41 PM

ndabunka

09-12-08, 06:52 PM

Update on my single-processor CPU viability effort. A simple chip replacement from the prior Sempron 3000+ to the Athlon 3200 has had two results. The first is an expected load reduction. Using a 30-day freeware trial of an application titled "Performance Test v6.1" by Passmark Software I was able to verify that there is a 22% reduction in application load when running the same video in 1080p mode via PowerDVD. This means that the load is now between 50% and 74% and no longer peaks around 100%. This is without any overclocking.

the other (unexpected) result was that I no longer get the prompt regarding the system asking if I would like to use a lower resolution. I can only assume that this is a direct result of the differences between the Sempron and the Atlon processors.

renethx

09-12-08, 07:21 PM

So the three recommended cpu coolers are the:

Scythe ninja mini
Thermalright HR-01 PLUS
ZEROtherm BTF90

any opinions (as to how quiet they are in the htpc environment) would be helpful as reviews are all over the place - some they they are all silent and others say they are noisy as hell!
Quality ratings according to SilentPCReview (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html):

- Thermalright HR-01 PLUS: 9
- Scythe ninja mini: 7.5
- ZEROtherm BTF90: 7.5

If the case height allows, HR-01 PLUS is the best choice. If you use a Core 2 Duo or Athlon X2 processor, Ninja Mini without a fan (zero noise) may be good enough. I even use Phenom X3 8750 95W processor in this way (max temerature at load is ~70°C, no problem :)).

Briands

09-12-08, 07:39 PM

renethx

09-12-08, 07:56 PM

Are any of the latest video cards or IGP better at managing dual displays with different resolutions? I have a 7" touchscreen that is 800x480, but would like to use 1440x960 @48 for my projector ... both are VGA
Any suggestions?
BTW, I'd prefer to stick with XP for now, but this might be worth going to Vista for if it works
If you mean extended desktop mode, then any GPU supports different resolutions. In clone mode, the answer is no; the projector will be 800x480 too.

pc1984

09-13-08, 02:15 AM

renethx, you are a saint. Same questions are asked over and over, still you answer. My point of no return would have been 70 pages ago.

Just a tip of the hat to yea.

saxnix

09-13-08, 03:40 AM

vanylapep

09-13-08, 08:52 AM

tebba

09-13-08, 09:07 AM

Satan.

09-13-08, 10:41 AM

Hey everyone, I'm still trying to cut costs on this build (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=12887567) (NewEgg Wish List link). Here is a link (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340343%204017%2050001157&bop=And&Order=PRICE&CompareItemList=N82E16819115052%2CN82E16819115132%2CN82E1681 9115038%2CN82E16819115037%2CN82E16819115017) to a comparison list from Newegg. I have the Q6600 right now and I'm wondering how low I can go processor-wise on this thing. I'm only using it to play back 720p, x264-encoded MKV and MP4 files. No BD drive, no video encoding.

Satan.

09-13-08, 10:48 AM

Hi guys,

Sorry to just pop in like this, but i don't know where to ask this question..

I have a normal laptop with VGA output that i want to hook to my Samsung LN40A650, which has a VGA/PC input. I just bought a cheap VGA-VGA cable to hook my laptop to this TV and when i connect the VGA cable to both ends, i get the "tu tun" sound from Windows telling me something has been plugged. However, the TV does not detect anything.

It says: "The source is not connected. Please check the cable again."

Any tips? Do we need a special cable or a regular VGA/VGA is fine?

On your laptop, do you have integrated Intel graphics? If so, right click on your desktop and select 'Graphic Options' and from there the choice should be fairly obvious. Also look for a Fn+FX key combination (such as Fn+F8 on Dells) that cycles through displaying only the laptop, only the external monitor and both at the same time. We run into this issue multiple times a day where I work, and it sounds like that's what you may have to do.

ilovejedd

09-13-08, 12:21 PM

renethx

09-13-08, 12:46 PM

I was surfing the web looking for a good quiet cooler for my new htpc build and i found this one: NQ-3580 Siberian Tiger (northq.com/products/coolers/nq3580.html)

Would it be a better cpu cooler in stead of:
Scythe ninja mini
Thermalright HR-01 PLUS
ZEROtherm BTF90

It got some pretty good reviews, but i dont know if it' ideal for a htpc.

What's your opinion?
I am not familiar with this cooler, but it looks interesting. (No available in US, right?) A few problems I noticed are

- the case must have a 120mm fan slot in the rear. Then is the lower rpm fan enough for the entire case ventilation?
- pricey, twice the price of HR-01 PLUS (right?)

Definitely the majority of HTPC users don't need it (and can't use it with many HTPC cases), but some may be interested in it ...

Satan.

09-13-08, 12:56 PM

Dual-core should suffice. Note, an E5200 (2.50 GHz) has very similar performance to the E7200, uses less power and only costs $90. For an HTPC used purely for video playback, that's what I would choose.

I suppose I'm just worried about underpowering this thing so much. I'm not calling you wrong, but do you know of any comparison benchmarks? Especially since the E5200 isn't a Core 2 Duo processor.

ilovejedd

09-13-08, 02:21 PM

I suppose I'm just worried about underpowering this thing so much. I'm not calling you wrong, but do you know of any comparison benchmarks? Especially since the E5200 isn't a Core 2 Duo processor.
renethx posted a comparison here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14622749#post14622749). The branding might not be Core 2 Duo but it uses the same microarchitecture. Iirc, the only differences are no VT (likely won't need), no SSE4 (currently not really being used in a lot of applications, and from some developers -x264,vdub- doesn't really improve things by much) and smaller cache (which at 2MB is still plenty).

vanylapep

09-13-08, 03:05 PM

On your laptop, do you have integrated Intel graphics? If so, right click on your desktop and select 'Graphic Options' and from there the choice should be fairly obvious. Also look for a Fn+FX key combination (such as Fn+F8 on Dells) that cycles through displaying only the laptop, only the external monitor and both at the same time. We run into this issue multiple times a day where I work, and it sounds like that's what you may have to do.

Hi Satan,

Thanks for the reply, however, i did try all of that, going to the Intel Options, and also i did the Fn+F5 to switch. I tried both to extend and clone my laptop monitor, nothing change anything. The TV never detects any connection. Now, could it be the cable?

vanylapep

09-13-08, 03:11 PM

Hi,

For the mid-range AMD/AMD mATX option, what is the advantage of getting the SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 since it only offers DVI output..?

ilovejedd

09-13-08, 03:34 PM

Hi,

For the mid-range AMD/AMD mATX option, what is the advantage of getting the SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 since it only offers DVI output..?
I believe the retail package comes with a DVI -> HDMI adapter.

jjcave

09-13-08, 03:46 PM

I'm planning on building an HTPC and was wondering what people thought of these specs (ie are there any improvements I could make without much price increase - particularly, should I invest in an aftermarket heatsink or is the stock cooler adequate). Thanks.

CPU: AMD Phenom X3 8450
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-MA78GPM-DS2H
RAM: 2GB Corsair TwinX XMS2
HDD: 750GB Samsung Spinpoint F1
Case: Antec NSK2480
PSU: (included in case)

plus optical drives

renethx

09-13-08, 03:49 PM

For the mid-range AMD/AMD mATX option, what is the advantage of getting the SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 since it only offers DVI output..?
Yup, use a DVI-HDMI adpater bundled with the card.

renethx

09-13-08, 03:53 PM

vanylapep

09-13-08, 03:59 PM

Yup, use a DVI-HDMI adpater bundled with the card.

Then may i ask this stoopid question.. Isn't using the onboard HDMI better than DVI-HDMI converter?

In your post on page 85, you stated that to have full quality sound, we need this video card. I do not see sound output from this card..
:confused:

ilovejedd

09-13-08, 04:33 PM

Then may i ask this stoopid question.. Isn't using the onboard HDMI better than DVI-HDMI converter?

In your post on page 85, you stated that to have full quality sound, we need this video card. I do not see sound output from this card..
:confused:
You get video and sound if you use HDMI cable with the included DVI -> HDMI adapter.

renethx

09-13-08, 04:33 PM

Then may i ask this stoopid question.. Isn't using the onboard HDMI better than DVI-HDMI converter?

In your post on page 85, you stated that to have full quality sound, we need this video card. I do not see sound output from this card..
:confused:
Using onboard HDMI means using onboard video (HD 3200) which is inferior to HD 4670.

Audio controller is built in the HD 4670 chip, that supports 7.1 LPCM. Another audio controller is built in the HD 3200 chip, that supports only stereo LPCM. As you know HDMI (and DVI too!) carries both video and audio.

tebba

09-13-08, 04:46 PM

I am not familiar with this cooler, but it looks interesting. (No available in US, right?) A few problems I noticed are

- the case must have a 120mm fan slot in the rear. Then is the lower rpm fan enough for the entire case ventilation?
- pricey, twice the price of HR-01 PLUS (right?)

Definitely the majority of HTPC users don't need it (and can't use it with many HTPC cases), but some may be interested in it ...

Thank you for the reply. You've got some good points there. It's only gonna cool the cpu nothing else in the case.

------

Over to a different question. I'm looking for a gaming-htpc so the Premium ATX one is looking good. So the goal is best specs possible with the minimal noise.

Specs:
# CPU: Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz Socket 775, $314.
# CPU Cooler: Thermalright HR-01 PLUS, $42.
# CPU Fan: Scythe S-FLEX S-FDB 120mm Fan SFF21E, $15.
# Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 Intel X48 chipset ATX, $285. A cheaper alternative is GIGABYTE GA-X48-DS4 Intel X48 chipset ATX, $225 (two less SATA ports).
# Memory: G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ DDR2-1000 2 x 2GB Kit, $85.
# Graphics Card: ASUS EAH4870/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4870, $245; two of this card for CrossFireX, $490. An alternative is Radeon HD 4870 X2, $549.
# HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $95.
# PSU: Enermax MODU82+ 625W EMD625AWT, $140.
# Case: SilverStone Crown CW02 SST-CW02S-MXR, $362.

The parts that makes noise are:
CPU Fan
GFX Card
HDD
PSU

I hear the CPU fan and the PSU fan are pretty quiet. And i cant do much about the HDD. So my question is. How much noise does the GFX card make? (when it's idling mind you.. i dont need it to be quiet while im actually gaming, just when i watch movies)

And what's the difference between the INTEL/INTEL and INTEL/NVIDIA one? Just ATI and NVIDIA?

redtyler1

09-13-08, 05:52 PM

You won't even hear that cpu fan. Its that quiet. I would get Western Digital's GP line, power consumption probably isnt a concern for this machine for you, but I think they are a little quieter. THe PSU is good, other quiet ones, per siilentpcreview, are Corsair and Seasonic. I've had good results with both of them. The video card will be the noise maker. You can always get an aftermarket cooler, like the accelero. They even cool better than the stock cooler and are much quieter. THey are quite large though, but if you're using that CPU cooler, you should have the room in the case for an aftermarket graphics card cooler.

Alex

redtyler1

09-13-08, 05:54 PM

renethx

09-13-08, 06:01 PM

So my question is. How much noise does the GFX card make? (when it's idling mind you.. i dont need it to be quiet while im actually gaming, just when i watch movies)

And what's the difference between the INTEL/INTEL and INTEL/NVIDIA one? Just ATI and NVIDIA?
Subjectively the card is not very quiet but not terribly loud at BD playback.

Intel/Intel vs. Intel/NVIDIA: chipset (Intel X48 vs nForce 780i SLI) and GPU are different.

renethx

09-13-08, 06:20 PM

So, in trying to come up with the lowest power consumption but highest picture quality mobo/graphics card pairing, i've focused on this:

740g board
4550 or 4650 radeon.

I'll wait for results from ren on the 4550's picture quality with the reduced stream processors compared to the 4650. But, is there any reason for me not to pair the 740g board with the 4650? there's like a $30 difference between 740g and 780g boards which would almost pay for the 4550 and cut the 4650 price in half. Thoughts?

Thanks.

Edit: i know the 740g pciex16 slot is not 2.0, but i didnt think that would inmpact picture quality or the passage of 7.1 audio.
Besides PCIe 1.1 (not a problem for video playback though), 740G supports only older Athlon processors (HT 1000MT/s), that prevents CPU upgrade in future (e.g. 45 nm processor in Q1 2009).

What I am thinking as an (much more powerful in video/audio) alternative to the AMD/AMD low-end microATX system is

- Athlon X2 4850e, $76
- Foxconn A7GM-S AMD 780G chipset mATX mb, $62
- Radeon HD 4550, $39

With +$19, you would get better picture quality and better audio (multichannel LPCM). Yes, of course you can use HD 4670 or even HD 4850.

redtyler1

09-13-08, 06:37 PM

If I'm using the 4550 video card in both scenarios (740g and 7800g) why would I get better PQ and audio with the 780G?

ndabunka

09-13-08, 06:46 PM

Hi Satan,

Thanks for the reply, however, i did try all of that, going to the Intel Options, and also i did the Fn+F5 to switch. I tried both to extend and clone my laptop monitor, nothing change anything. The TV never detects any connection. Now, could it be the cable?

It could be the cable or could even simply be that you are trying too high of a resolution. Some LCD's can't display a high resolution through the VGA port so try reducing the resolution to something like 800x600 and see if that doesn't work better. If you have a DVI and/or HDMI port on your video card and your LCD you may want to try that because often you can get the higher resolution simply by using the HDMI or the DVI port than you can get from the VGA port. The primary reason for this is that the manufacturer's don't always make all the resolutions available through the VGA ports as they do through the HDMI or DVI ports. Panasonic is one of the worst at this.

renethx

09-13-08, 06:47 PM

If I'm using the 4550 video card in both scenarios (740g and 7800g) why would I get better PQ and audio with the 780G?
I don't think there is any video/audio difference between 740G and 780G (or any other chipset). If you never upgrade CPU in future, 740G will be fine.

redtyler1

09-13-08, 06:53 PM

Thanks, ren.

tebba

09-13-08, 07:10 PM

Subjectively the card is not very quiet but not terribly loud at BD playback.

Intel/Intel vs. Intel/NVIDIA: chipset (Intel X48 vs nForce 780i SLI) and GPU are different.

What are the pros and cons of the different chipsets? Can i use nvidia gfx cards on the intel one and ATI cards on the nvidia one?

What are chipsets anyway? :)

renethx

09-13-08, 07:52 PM

What are the pros and cons of the different chipsets? Can i use nvidia gfx cards on the intel one and ATI cards on the nvidia one?
There are many reviews on X48 and nForce 780i (for example, look at The Tech Report (http://techreport.com/motherboard+chipset/)). X48 consumes less power (-25W). You can use any single graphics card with any chipset mb. However if you go with a multi-GPU solution, CrossFire or SLI, you have to choose a chipset that support the technology (X38/X48/P45 for CF, nForce 780i/750i for SLI).

tebba

09-13-08, 08:10 PM

However if you go with a multi-GPU solution, CrossFire or SLI, you have to choose a chipset that support the technology (X38/X48/P45 for CF, nForce 780i/750i for SLI).

That wasn't my first thought, but i'd like to have the possibility to expand it with another GFX card. Are CrossFire and SLI basically the same thing just with two different manufacturer?

renethx

09-13-08, 08:14 PM

That wasn't my first thought, but i'd like to have the possibility to expand it with another GFX card. Are CrossFire and SLI basically the same thing just with two different manufacturer?
Yes, basically.

eToolGuy

09-13-08, 08:19 PM

I'm planning an HTPC that I would like to feed into my 8x8 component matrix switch for distribution to the TVs around my house. Most of the source will come from ripped movies on local HDDs, but I'd also like to play movies from the local BD drive. Do you have a recommendation for a video card that can support 1080p/60 (idealy 1080p/24) over component video outputs and 5.1/7.1 audio over a digital coax connector? (1080i would be a fallback if cards are blocking 1080p over component the same way consumer DVD players are doing.)

Also, do you have a favorite ATX rack mount case with hot swap HDD bays for a medium to high end HTPC? Noise and price are somewhat important, but not as important as quality.

Thanks for a great thread and thanks for your help!

tebba

09-13-08, 08:22 PM

Ok, thanks. So i can't use Radeon cards in SLI and Nvidia cards in Crossfire?

Got a few other questions if you dont mind. :)

I was looking at the PSU you recommended for the Premium ATX build. Since they dont sell Enermax here, i have to get an alternative.. I was looking at
silentpcreview.com, and they recommended either Corsair HX620W or Corsair TX650W. I dont get why the 620w one is more expensive than the 650w one, what's the difference between them? And is this a good replacement for the Enermax one and which is the best pick of the 620 and 650 one?

-

What are the dimensions of the build? You see, i was looking for a different Case, but have no idea how big things are. I see you have a picture of the Black Silverstone SST-CW02B Crown, Silver, Aluminium, ATX, 120mm fan case. And the black case would look so much better with my setup. Is it possible to get the black one, or do they just make the Silver one? It's either get the silver one, or buy a different black case, any good ideas for a replacement if i can't get a hold of the black on here?

Thank you!

ilovejedd

09-13-08, 08:50 PM

I was looking at silentpcreview.com, and they recommended either Corsair HX620W or Corsair TX650W. I dont get why the 620w one is more expensive than the 650w one, what's the difference between them? And is this a good replacement for the Enermax one and which is the best pick of the 620 and 650 one?
The HX620 has modular cables, the TX650 does not. Basically, most of the peripheral power cables can be removed from the HX620 which makes for easier cable management. The cables on the TX650 are hardwired to the power supply. Either would be a pretty good replacement.

audionewer

09-13-08, 09:20 PM

i donot know why when i try to watch HD recorded show, i got deinterlancing and shutter. is that normal.

bokis

09-14-08, 03:03 AM

Any reports how this new Ati HD46XX card works with recievers don´t want to start a new tread at this moment, I got a Onkyo 576 that I use with spif and that is not sufficient in my eyes :o

Forgot Gigabyte 780g and 4850e

renethx

09-14-08, 03:22 AM

I'm planning an HTPC that I would like to feed into my 8x8 component matrix switch for distribution to the TVs around my house. Most of the source will come from ripped movies on local HDDs, but I'd also like to play movies from the local BD drive. Do you have a recommendation for a video card that can support 1080p/60 (idealy 1080p/24) over component video outputs and 5.1/7.1 audio over a digital coax connector? (1080i would be a fallback if cards are blocking 1080p over component the same way consumer DVD players are doing.)

Also, do you have a favorite ATX rack mount case with hot swap HDD bays for a medium to high end HTPC? Noise and price are somewhat important, but not as important as quality.
Any video card in my recommendations should work. GeForce 8600 GT/Radeon HD 4670 or higher is better. Any motherboard in my recommendations supports digital coax (perhaps with a coax bracket; build it yourself or buy it).

My server recommendations?

renethx

09-14-08, 03:41 AM

Ok, thanks. So i can't use Radeon cards in SLI and Nvidia cards in Crossfire?

I was looking at the PSU you recommended for the Premium ATX build. Since they dont sell Enermax here, i have to get an alternative.. I was looking at
silentpcreview.com, and they recommended either Corsair HX620W or Corsair TX650W. I dont get why the 620w one is more expensive than the 650w one, what's the difference between them? And is this a good replacement for the Enermax one and which is the best pick of the 620 and 650 one?

What are the dimensions of the build? You see, i was looking for a different Case, but have no idea how big things are. I see you have a picture of the Black Silverstone SST-CW02B Crown, Silver, Aluminium, ATX, 120mm fan case. And the black case would look so much better with my setup. Is it possible to get the black one, or do they just make the Silver one? It's either get the silver one, or buy a different black case, any good ideas for a replacement if i can't get a hold of the black on here?
ATI cards in CF only, NVIDIA cards in SLI only.

If you may go with a multi-GPU solution in future, then you have to consider PCI-E connectors (6-pin or 8-pin).

- HD 4870: 6pin+6pin
- HD 4870 X2: 8pin+6pin
- GTX 260: 6pin+6pin
- GTX 280: 8pin+6pin

So you need four PCI-E connectors.

- HX620W (http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/hx.aspx): 8pin+8pin
- TX650W (http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/tx.aspx): 8pin+8pin
- TX750W (http://www.corsairmemory.com/products/tx.aspx): 8pin+8pin+8pin+8pin

Buy TX750W.

Silverstone CW02 comes in two colors, silver (http://www.google.com/products?q=silverstone+CW02+silver&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd) and black (http://www.google.com/products?q=silverstone+CW02+black&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd). Watch Video Review by 3dGameMan.com (http://www.3dgameman.com/content/view/9720/103/).

renethx

09-14-08, 03:43 AM

i donot know why when i try to watch HD recorded show, i got deinterlancing and shutter. is that normal.
Deinterlacing is normal. Stuttering depends on your system.

renethx

09-14-08, 03:47 AM

audionewer

09-14-08, 08:57 AM

Deinterlacing is normal. Stuttering depends on your system.

i got :

phenom 9850
biostar 790gx

what do you mean by: depends on system?

vanylapep

09-14-08, 09:06 AM

Hi Reneth,

Can i suggest you to update the hard drive? We got these good options now:

Western Digital Caviar SE16 640GB SATA2 7200RPM 16MB Hard Drive OEM 3YR MFR Warranty (WD6400AAKS)
$88.85

Samsung Spinpoint F1 Series HD642JJ 640GB SATA2 7200RPM 16MB 3.5IN Hard Drive OEM 3YR MFR Warranty (HD642JJ)
$78.83

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 640GB 3.5IN SATA2 7200RPM 32MB Cache NCQ Hard Drive OEM *5YR MFR Warranty*
$82.11

About 20$ more and you get 2x the space.

renethx

09-14-08, 09:29 AM

i got :

phenom 9850
biostar 790gx

what do you mean by: depends on system?
Software problem?

audionewer

09-14-08, 09:33 AM

i use VMC to watch recorded shows. i have fddshow installed on my system.

renethx

09-14-08, 09:34 AM

Hi Reneth,

Can i suggest you to update the hard drive?
Thanks for the suggestion. Last time I checked HDD prices (just a few weeks ago), the lowest price of WD6400AAKS was $95. HDD prices are going down quickly. :)

renethx

09-14-08, 09:36 AM

i use VMC to watch recorded shows. i have fddshow installed on my system.
Perhaps that's the problem.

audionewer

09-14-08, 09:46 AM

if it is ffdshow is the problem how do i fix the problem.

renethx

09-14-08, 09:50 AM

if it is ffdshow is the problem how do i fix the problem.
OK, I am not an expert of ffdshow. Read and ask in the ffdshow sticky thread.

foxclab01

09-14-08, 09:52 AM

audionewer

09-14-08, 10:54 AM

i want to know which one is better for HQ and HDTV? 4670 vs. 8600gt

renethx

09-14-08, 11:43 AM

Hello to all.

I am creating a home theater with HVR3000. I would like to know 2 things :

1. The characteristics are :

CPU - Intel Celeron Dual Core E1200 1.6GHz S775
Memory - DDR2 2GHz / 667 / PC5400
Power - 450W
Video Card - Forsa GeForce 6600GT 512MB DDR2 PCIe w/DVI TV-Out
OS - XP pro sp2

Will I be ok for all the functions of HVR3000 or will I need something stronger?

2. I want to add an LCD screen in front of the htpc, that will display some information. Among that, I want to display the current channel of the receiver (either by its code name or by its frequency). Is there a way to extract this information from HVR3000 ? ( either from the card itself or from the software ).
1. I am not familiar with DVB-T, so I could be wrong.

As its video codec includes H.264, your system seems to be underpowered. Precisely, CPU and the graphics card are weak. You may need a dual-core processor and a better graphics card. If you know the model number of your motherboard, I can recommend a CPU.

2. Do you think about something like iMON LCD? iMON LCD shows media information from several applications (iMEDIAN HD, Windows Media Center, WinAmp, iTunes etc.). If you use your tuner in these applications, you would get information.

renethx

09-14-08, 11:48 AM

i want to know which one is better for HQ and HDTV? 4670 vs. 8600gt
Either one should be OK. But HD 3300+Phenom is also comparable with them.

tebba

09-14-08, 11:52 AM

So here's my build so far:

CPU: Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz Socket 775
CPU Cooler: Thermalright HR-01 PLUS
CPU Fan: Scythe S-FLEX S-FDB 120mm Fan SFF21E
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 Intel X48 chipset ATX
Memory: G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ DDR2-1000 2 x 2GB Kit
Graphics Card: ASUS EAH4870/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4870
PSU: Corsair HX620W (decided not to go for the CF)
Case: SilverStone Crown CW02B SST-CW02S-MXR

How does it look? Everything fits?
I have to buy it from 4 different shops, not easy to get every part from the same store:/

Am i right when i say Radeon HD 4870x2 arent just two Radeon HD 4870 cards? Or is that actually CF? If it isn't CF, would i be better off buying the x2 one, is it worth the money?

Another quick question about the 16hdd server build. I have a server, but the motherboard i bought is really bad. Asus P5B-V. It has VGA, 4Sata slots and Gbit ethernet. And a 2ghz Dual Core cpu. After i got more and more hdds i noticed that the motherboard couldn't manage more than 12HDD's. If i knew that when i bought i wouldn't have bought it.

So can you recommend me a Motherboard, socket775 with VGA instead of that AMD build you posted. Since i already have the CPU and the Memory. So i dont have to buy a whole new set.

(IF you know a solution to the 12hhds limitation problem, that would be even better:))

renethx

09-14-08, 12:12 PM

How does it look? Everything fits?
I have to buy it from 4 different shops, not easy to get every part from the same store:/

Am i right when i say Radeon HD 4870x2 arent just two Radeon HD 4870 cards? Or is that actually CF? If it isn't CF, would i be better off buying the x2 one, is it worth the money?

Another quick question about the 16hdd server build. I have a server, but the motherboard i bought is really bad. Asus P5B-V. It has VGA, 4Sata slots and Gbit ethernet. And a 2ghz Dual Core cpu. After i got more and more hdds i noticed that the motherboard couldn't manage more than 12HDD's. If i knew that when i bought i wouldn't have bought it.

So can you recommend me a Motherboard, socket775 with VGA instead of that AMD build you posted. Since i already have the CPU and the Memory. So i dont have to buy a whole new set.

(IF you know a solution to the 12hhds limitation problem, that would be even better:))
Looks good.

X2 is two GPU cores in one card. It's not CF but performance is identical with two 4870 in CF mode. Power consumption at idle is much lower than 4870 CF, but that at load is the same as CF.

What do you mean by "the motherboard couldn't manage more than 12HDD's"? P5B-V has 6 SATA ports, so it can't manage more than 6 HDDs? Do you use any SATA controller card?

audionewer

09-14-08, 12:13 PM

so does that mean HD3300 and Phenom can do HDTV and mkv. but how do i watched HDTV shows with smooth playback (without deinterlancing and shutter).

renethx

09-14-08, 12:17 PM

so does that mean HD3300 and Phenom can do HDTV and mkv. but how do i watched HDTV shows with smooth playback (without deinterlancing and shutter).
HDTV shows are interlaced. Stuttering is a software problem. HD 3300+Phenom has enough power to play back anything you throw in.

tebba

09-14-08, 12:34 PM

What do you mean by "the motherboard couldn't manage more than 12HDD's"? P5B-V has 6 SATA ports, so it can't manage more than 6 HDDs? Do you use any SATA controller card?

I mean, I've got 16HDD's in the case, 5 hooked up to the MB and 11 hooked up to my 3, 4p contoller cards. When i boot the machine it goes through, finding all of the hdd's. But as it is about to boot i get the "boot failure" msg. saying that it couldn't find my OS disk. When in fact what happens is that the OS disk is pushed out of the Boot disk priority list where there are only room for 12 devices. So every time i boot my server i have to manually unplug 4 hdds (not counting my IDE OS disk) so it will boot.

renethx

09-14-08, 12:52 PM

tebba

09-14-08, 12:57 PM

Promise SATA 300 TX4, all of them

foxclab01

09-14-08, 01:07 PM

So I am back with some more questions :

1. Despite Hauppauge HVR3000, are there any other tuner cards that combine All-In-One signals ( Analog, Digital & Satellite altogether ) ? From those, if any, which ones do have alternative software ( Freeware, Linux etc ? ) Which ones are compatible with all the transmmiting systems? ( PAL, SECAM & NTSC )

2. Is there any freeware program for Video Comparison? What I want to do is to compare 2 Video Streams and to be able to understand whether they are the same video or not.

And some questions about a Video Server that I want to create :

3. Given the fact that the Server will be into my PC, which is the best way for me to avoid Hacking ??

4. Which processor is the quickest for the combination Apache Server, PHP and MySQL ? Core 2 Duo E8500, Core 2 Quad Q6600 or Core 2 Quad Q8200 ?

And a final a bit irrelevant question :

5. Is there a wireless USB ? That is to say, how can I make a device which has a USB cable for connection with a PC to communicate wirelessly with the PC without having to create a whole wireless LAN ? What I trully want is an adaptor to connect into the edge of the USB cable of the device, so the USB signal will be transmitted wirelessly to the PC where there will be another adaptor in some USB port to collect the wireless signal.

Thank you all very much.

Smitty2k1

09-14-08, 01:24 PM

5. Is there a wireless USB ? That is to say, how can I make a device which has a USB cable for connection with a PC to communicate wirelessly with the PC without having to create a whole wireless LAN ? What I trully want is an adaptor to connect into the edge of the USB cable of the device, so the USB signal will be transmitted wirelessly to the PC where there will be another adaptor in some USB port to collect the wireless signal.

It sounds like what you want is bluetooth. However that requires special hardware. There is no product on the market that does what you are wanting it to do, as far as I know.

audionewer

09-14-08, 01:48 PM

i want to know will it makes any difference if i buy a 8600gt or 4870 or not because of the stutter?

renethx

09-14-08, 01:53 PM

I mean, I've got 16HDD's in the case, 5 hooked up to the MB and 11 hooked up to my 3, 4p contoller cards. When i boot the machine it goes through, finding all of the hdd's. But as it is about to boot i get the "boot failure" msg. saying that it couldn't find my OS disk. When in fact what happens is that the OS disk is pushed out of the Boot disk priority list where there are only room for 12 devices. So every time i boot my server i have to manually unplug 4 hdds (not counting my IDE OS disk) so it will boot.
Not sure I understand your problem correctly ... Remove 4 (or more) HDDs except the OS drive. You would see in Boot Device Priority

- 1st Boot Device [1st FLOPPY DRIVE]
- 2nd Boot Device [(optical drive name)]
- 3rd Boot Device [(HDD model)]
- 4th Boot Device [(HDD model)]
...
- 12th Boot Device [(HDD model)]

Move up the OS drive to the 3rd (or 2nd or 1st) Boot Device. Then add the HDDs you removed. Your OS drive is still in the 3rd (or 2nd or 1st) position? At least the OS drive shouldn't disappear from the list?

renethx

09-14-08, 01:59 PM

i want to know will it makes any difference if i buy a 8600gt or 4870 or not because of the stutter?
Could be. But first you'd better tweak ffdshow (or remove it).

tebba

09-14-08, 02:00 PM

Not sure I understand your problem correctly ... Remove 4 (or more) HDDs except the OS drive. You would see in Boot Device Priority

- 1st Boot Device [1st FLOPPY DRIVE]
- 2nd Boot Device [(optical drive name)]
- 3rd Boot Device [(HDD model)]
- 4th Boot Device [(HDD model)]
...
- 12th Boot Device [(HDD model)]

Move up the OS drive to the 3rd (or 2nd or 1st) Boot Device. Then add the HDDs you removed. Your OS drive is still in the 3rd position?

My OS drive is always the 1th priority. When i turn on my computer and go straight into the setup and look in the Boot Device Priority list, the OS drive doesn't show up. Because in that list there are only 12HDD's to pick from. so im missing 4. But as soon as i remove 4hhds, and then turn on my computer, the OS disk is there.

renethx

09-14-08, 02:07 PM

My OS drive is always the 1th priority. When i turn on my computer and go straight into the setup and look in the Boot Device Priority list, the OS drive doesn't show up. Because in that list there are only 12HDD's to pick from. so im missing 4. But as soon as i remove 4hhds, and then turn on my computer, the OS disk is there.
I don't understand why the OS drive must be among the 4 HDDs that disappear? What happens if the OS drive is in the 6th position or the 12th position? Did you check which 4 drives disappear when you add 4 HDDs, the first 4 drives or the last 4 drives in the priority list? Or are the 4 drives to disappear randomly picked up?

tebba

09-14-08, 02:16 PM

What i don't understand is why the OS drive must be among the 4 HDDs that disappear? What happens if the OS drive is in the 6th position or the 12th position? Did you check which 4 drives disappear when you add 4 HDDs, the first 4 drives or the last 4 drives in the priority list? Or are the 4 drives to disappear randomly picked up?

I dont know, it cant be randomly, since the boot disk disappears every single time. Might it be because that one is the only IDE disk i have? But the thing you can do is to disable all of the 12 devices except the first one, where you put the OS disk. So it bascially says, 'boot with this one, of dont boot at all'

renethx

09-14-08, 02:24 PM

IDE ... that could be the cause. I would buy a SATA drive for OS instead of changing the mb.

tebba

09-14-08, 02:26 PM

renethx

09-14-08, 02:47 PM

So before i can figure that problem out i need to buy a HTPC (since im buying the new server OS hdd from the same company as some of the parts, less shipping:)).

I was wondering if there's any replacement cases for the Silverstone Crown one. I have to pay $800 for it :s Any cheaper ones that will still fit the whole build?
Antec Fusion Remote Max is the only other ATX HTPC case that supports a 10 inch-long card. But if you install HD 4870, you can use only 2 HDDs in Fusion Max.

Oops, I forgot another case: SilverStone LC17 (remove one of the two hard drive cages).

Another finding. :) HD 4870 is not that long, only (?) 9.45", shorter than the mb width 9.6". (But you still need the space for PCI-E power connector.) So you can use many cases. For example, SilverStone LC20M, GD01, Zalman HD160 Plus. Perhaps you don't have to remove a drive cage in LC17.

redtyler1

09-14-08, 03:40 PM

No report so far.

i have an onkyo 606 and will give preliminary results monday ninght (hopefully). Using 4670 and 9150e.

tebba

09-14-08, 03:58 PM

Is it this one: SilverStone LASCALA LC17 - Desktop - ATX ?

Im guessing that the CPU Cooler won't fit in there?

renethx

09-14-08, 04:26 PM

Is it this one: SilverStone LASCALA LC17 - Desktop - ATX ?

Im guessing that the CPU Cooler won't fit in there?
Yes.

CW02 is exceptionally tall. You have to choose a shorter cooler such as ZEROtherm BTF90 if you go with LC17/LC20M/GD01/HD160 Plus/Fusion Remote Max.

tebba

09-14-08, 04:58 PM

I'll see how it goes, im gonna try to get it cheaper somewhere else, but it's quite expensive to ship it overseas. And no one sells the black one here. :(

eToolGuy

09-14-08, 05:09 PM

Renethx, I know multiple graphics cards can be combined to drive a big monitor, especially for gaming. But is is possible to add multiple cards to support multiple independent 1080p video + 7.1 audio streams for a movie server? If so, do you have a recommendation for good cards that can do this... and any configuration issues that should be addressed? (Mobo, chipset, CPU, etc.) Could 3 or 4 cards be used in the same system? Gaming is not important, and assume this is your current mid/high-end ATX system.

Thanks again!

renethx

09-14-08, 05:19 PM

is is possible to add multiple cards to support multiple independent 1080p video + 7.1 audio streams for a movie server?
No. You can choose only one audio device at a time.

Satan.

09-14-08, 05:59 PM

renethx posted a comparison here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14622749#post14622749). The branding might not be Core 2 Duo but it uses the same microarchitecture. Iirc, the only differences are no VT (likely won't need), no SSE4 (currently not really being used in a lot of applications, and from some developers -x264,vdub- doesn't really improve things by much) and smaller cache (which at 2MB is still plenty).

Boy, that comparison makes me wish I stuck with the original Q6600 in my plan! Thanks for that, though. I feel better going to the E5200 now.

Satan.

09-14-08, 06:04 PM

audionewer

09-14-08, 07:18 PM

Software problem?

do you mean : drivers (audio, tuners and video)?

renethx

09-14-08, 07:41 PM

do you mean : drivers (audio, tuners and video)?
ffdshow? If you don't know what to do, then why do you use it?

audionewer

09-14-08, 08:15 PM

i need it for HD movies only.

ndabunka

09-14-08, 10:15 PM

i need it for HD movies only.

Then you may want to ask your questions in a thread that addresses your issues rather than this thread which is not focused on your approach. Here is the thread that appears appropriate...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=719041

eToolGuy

09-15-08, 02:20 AM

No. You can choose only one audio device at a time.

Thanks, but this surprises me. Is this because the interface for audio between the MoBo and the video card is an actual cable instead of a RAM buffer? If the interface were a DMA buffer, you could just assign different addresses to different cards, (for both audio and video), and each card would just handle its own bits and output them to its own connectors. In the case of bitstream digital audio, this would not require much work... since a receiver downstream will do the actual decoding. (The CPU/MoBo would be responsible for shuttling bits from the disk drive to the buffers to keep the cards fed.)

I know there are multi-channel audio cards (M-audio 1010lt for one) that must work something like this... so it doesn't seem hopeless to think that someone will support multiple HD video streams on a single PC in the future. (Or maybe I'm way off base?)

I guess Kaleidescape and these other high end media servers that talk about multiple video streams (or zones) are really just talking about interleaved file I/O over ethernet that still has to be decoded by a PC (player in their terms) downstream at each TV site. (Nice way to sell a lot of hardware I guess.)

tebba

09-15-08, 10:07 AM

renethx

09-15-08, 10:20 AM

Quick question renethx!

Is it worth buying Radeon 4870 x2 instead of the ordinary one? money vs preformance wise. And will the HX620W be enough power to run it?

- HD 4870 X2: 8pin+6pin
- HX620W: 8pin+8pin
HX620W is enough for HD 4870 X2 (whose max power is ~250W). If 4870 X2 <= 2 x 4870 in price, it may be of good value depending on how much gaming performance you need.

tebba

09-15-08, 10:42 AM

HX620W is enough for HD 4870 X2 (whose max power is ~250W). If 4870 X2 <= 2 x 4870 in price, it may be of good value depending on how much gaming performance you need.

Ok, thx. I think i'll go with the x2 one then. How much stuff can i put in there in addition to what's in your build before i need more power?

renethx

09-15-08, 11:09 AM

Ok, thx. I think i'll got with the x2 one then. How much stuff can i put in there in addition to what's in your build before i need more power?
A rough estimate of max power consumption:

- CPU: 95W
- RAM: 10W
- MB: 50W
- GPU: 250W
- Optical drive: 20W
- Total: 425W

Actual power consumption is close to this value. For example, 437W (http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-4870-x2-review-crossfire/6), 385W (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2327875,00.asp), 385W (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4870_X2/24.html). You may add

- HDD: 10W per disk
- Expansion card: 5W-50W (depending on the card)

until you fill up the rest 200W.

d60pdp

09-15-08, 11:18 AM

Renethx,
Based on your suggestion for mid-range Intel HTPC and parts I can gather/buy, I am planning my 2nd HTPC with BD playback capability:

CPU: Core 2 Duo E5200 (already bought)
CPU Cooler: stock (included in box).
Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM Intel G45 chipset microATX (to be bought)
Memory: Crucial DDR2-667 2 x 1GB Kit (on hand)
HDD: Samsung 500GB SATA (on hand).
PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX (to be bought).
Case: Antec Fusion Remote (already bought).
LG Combo BD/HD DVD player (on hand)

Questions:

Is there any problem connecting Antec Fusion Remote IR receiver to this Asus motherboard?
Is the noise acceptable with the stock cooler or Scythe NINJA MINI a must?
Will 2 x 1GB DDR2-667 be good enough for VMC or I should better off buying new 2 x 2GB DDR2-800 or higher?

TIA
PS: Planning to get an HD4650 when available.

tebba

09-15-08, 11:30 AM

A rough estimate of max power consumption:

- CPU: 95W
- RAM: 10W
- MB: 50W
- GPU: 250W
- Optical drive: 20W
- Total: 425W

Actual power consumption is close to this value. For example, 437W (http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-4870-x2-review-crossfire/6), 385W (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2327875,00.asp), 385W (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Sapphire/HD_4870_X2/24.html). You may add

- HDD: 10W per disk
- Expansion card: 5W-50W (depending on the card)

until you fill up the rest 200W.

I really wanna thank you renethx. Your help has made my decision _alot_ easier.. Great to have ppl of your character around. Thanks again!

FoSheezy

09-15-08, 12:14 PM

SD DVD Playback on an HTPC
Has anyone here been able to get super good video from their HTPC, specifically with the 4850 card?
I am coming from the XA2 and an OPPO 983 and cant seem to get the HTPC to even rival the PS3s video quality. I have tried a couple different players and messed around with the 4850 settings but am still unhappy with it.
Does anyone here use the 4850 and feel that their setup is comparable to an OPPO 983 or XA2?
Or was I hoping to get something that only dedicated stand-alone players can achieve?

renethx

09-15-08, 12:29 PM

d60pdp

09-15-08, 01:06 PM

1. No.
2. The stock cooler is very quiet for me. But E5200 can be cooled passively with Ninja Mini (zero noise).
3. DDR2-667 is good enough for video playback.

BTW if you are going to use Radeon HD 4650, then you can buy a G33/G35 mb and save some money.
Thanks. I'll proceed to order others parts, w/o HD4650.

tebba

09-15-08, 01:14 PM

xAlias

09-15-08, 01:31 PM

Im goin for HTPC build thats capable of 8 Channel LPCM audio and Blue ray/HD Video playback.

Have got the mother board selected as GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H paired with a SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670.

But i am undecided about the processor to get for the setup.

Would a X2 4850e suffice here or should i get a Phenom Triple or quad core?

Since this is for just movie playback (and not gaming), does it make any sense to get a Triple or quad core?
And if so does the X3 8750 (2.5 Ghz) be faster then then X2 4850e (2.8Ghz) for any day to day applications or divx/mkv conversions?

Thanks in advance

renethx

09-15-08, 01:35 PM

Are:

Gigabyte GA-X48-DQ6, X48, Socket-775, ATX, Silent Pipe, DDR2, 2xPCI-Ex(2.0)x16
and
Gigabyte GA-X48-DS4, X48, Socket-775, ATX, Silent Pipe, DDR2, 2xPCI-Ex(2.0)x16
exactly the same except for the two less SATA ports? No need for 8 when i can only use 6 anyway
No heatpipe on the southbridge and 2 less SATA ports. That's it.

BTW if you never use CrossFire, then perhaps X48 is overkill. Check

- GA-EP45-DS3P
- GA-EP45-DS4 (DS3P+heatpipe on SB)

I bet you won't notice any performance difference. P45 supports CrossFire x8,x8 instead of CrossFire x16,x16 of X48 and the southbridge is the newer ICH10R instead of ICH9R of X48.

tebba

09-15-08, 01:39 PM

No heatpipe on the southbridge and 2 less SATA ports. That's it.

BTW if you never use CrossFire, then perhaps X48 is overkill. Check

- GA-EP45-DS3P
- GA-EP45-DS4 (DS3P+heatpipe on SB)

I bet you won't notice any performance difference. P45 supports CrossFire x8,x8 instead of CrossFire x16,x16 of X48 and the southbridge is the newer ICH10R instead of ICH9R of X48.

And im guessing heatpipe is a good thing? so: GA-EP45-DS4 then?
And it'll still work with Radeon HD 4870 X2 i presume?

renethx

09-15-08, 01:40 PM

xAlias

09-15-08, 01:59 PM

For video playback, 4850e is better because of lower power consumption (-20W). However transcoding is much faster in X3 and X4.

Thanks! The 4850e it is then. Cooler and less power consumption sounds better if the payoff is only waiting for a little more time for divx conversions.

renethx

09-15-08, 02:00 PM

And im guessing heatpipe is a good thing? so: GA-EP45-DS4 then?
Max power of SB is less than 5W. So heatpipe is unnecessary. By any chance do you use a RAID controller card? If you insert any PCIe card in the second PCIe x16 slot of the P45 mb, the first slot also works only as x8 that you may want to avoid for a few games (read this article on scaling analysis (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-2-0,1915-10.html)).

HD 4870 X2 works with P45 exactly in the same way as with X48 (unless you use the second PCIe x16 slot).

tebba

09-15-08, 03:33 PM

Max power of SB is less than 5W. So heatpipe is unnecessary. By any chance do you use a RAID controller card? If you insert any PCIe card in the second PCIe x16 slot of the P45 mb, the first slot also works only as x8 that you may want to avoid for a few games

No, im not going to use a RAID controller card in the HTPC. I didn't quite get that. The x16 slot is really a x8 slot?

renethx

09-15-08, 04:52 PM

No, im not going to use a RAID controller card in the HTPC. I didn't quite get that. The x16 slot is really a x8 slot?
In X48, the two PCIe x16 slots work at (x16,x16).

In P45, the two PCIe x16 slots work at either (x16,-) or (x8,x8). Unless you insert a card to the second slot, the first slot works at x16. However if you insert a card (graphics, RAID, tuner or whatever) in the second slot, the first slot automatically slows down to x8.

That's the reason why X48 is pricier.

If you choose P45 with HD 4870 and want the x16 bandwidth, don't use the second PCIe x16 slot. You still have two PCIe x1 slots. But if you want to add a third PCIe x1 card, you are out of luck, you have to use the second PCIe x16 slot and your HD 4870 will work only at x8. So you need to think about how many PCIe x1 cards you will use when you choose chipset, P45 or X48. (For a non-gaming HTPC, x8 is just fine, there is no need to choose X48.)

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/FileList/Image/motherboard_productimage_ga-ep45-ds3p_big.jpg

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3P

BTW the GIGABYTE P45 board has a third PCIe x16 slot at the bottom of the mb; it's coming from the southbridge and works at x4 (this slot is pretty useless because if you use it, then two of the three PCIe x1 slots are disabled).

mcpfrid

09-15-08, 07:36 PM

For anybody interested in the Remote Black case I contacted "PROVANTAGE" and rec'd the following info;

It appears that it will be around 10/08/08 before this item ships.

Thank you! Have a great day!

Kathy Zwick
Sales Support
PROVANTAGE Corporation
800-336-4466 Ext 212
330-494-5260 fax
kzwick@provantage.com

Guess I'm headed down to fries to pick up an Antec NSK2480, on sale for six-zero after rebate

tebba

09-16-08, 01:15 AM

Looks like i should go for the X48 chipset, just in case. As long as there are no significant differences between DQ6 and DS4, i'll choose DS4. The two less sata ports are fine. And you said the heatpipe was unnecessary?

renethx

09-16-08, 04:39 AM

Waiko

09-16-08, 05:14 AM

Newegg

wwwDOTneweggDOTcom/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129055

sorry about the link im still new and cant post url yet but i improvised :cool:

USD 249.95 + USD 14.99 :eek:

:confused:
Is it overkill?
Do we really use the volume knob on the front?

It has finally landed in USA. Have to start eating instant noodles for awhile after this.... :D

renethx

09-16-08, 05:29 AM

Antec Fusion Remote Max (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129055) ... those who use longer cards (Radeon HD 4870 X2, and GeForce 9800 GTX or higher) should look at this ... and those who don't too.

Waiko

09-16-08, 07:01 AM

Hi Renethx,

What are your first taught of this new case?

Im still in a middle of a decission making

My plan is

Mobo: Asus P5W DH Deluxe (old board)
CPU: E6600 (old CPU)
GPU: HD 4670 (Still new with this not much comparison among other brands eg HIS, Sapphire, MSI or Gigabyte)
PSU: Seasonic M12II-500W or Enermax Modu82+ 425W
Ram: GSkill (2 x 1GB) DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ
Case: Either SilverStone LC20B or Antec Fusion Remote MAX
Cooling: stock cooling first because im not sure of the internal case height (Maybe a Scyhte Mni or Thermalright )
Sound: onboard sound, Xonar is expensive and the software still not mature maybe in the future.
Speakers: Logitech Z-5500 (Adequate for now)

As a side note I will not be gaming a lot but mostly Movies,Music,Office LCD HDTV experience.

I prefer ATX case for future upgrade opportunity (more headroom)
IMHO Antec Fusion Remote Max has excellent ballance between cooling and silent. It also include my favorite dust filter. Some consumer might not be interested in it for its giant case dimension. :cool:

Thank you

I welcome all advise as this will be my first HTPC built for some decent setup.
Renethx, I love your HTPC recommendation and keep up the good work!!! :D

Torch11

09-16-08, 09:28 AM

First Post, don't mean to Hyjack the thread, b ut I couldn't find another place suitable to post for help.

I have been researching to build a HTPC for nearly 2 months. The information hear is has been a great help but I still have questions. I'm an experienced PC builder but this is my first HTPC attemp and I want to try to future proof it as much as possible. The PC will handle double duties (If Possible) Stage I will be a Home Server/PVR. I already have an up-to-date home network with 4 PC's, running XP or Vista in various flavors all connected using a wired Gigabit router, connected to the Internet by 10mbs cable. The following is what I would like the system to support.

Stage I requirements

1. Home file/media server, Videos, Photo's, document storage, Backups, etc
2. Web and FTP server
3. PVR, I have HD Digital Cable. I would like to be able to record any of the channels delievered by my cable company, HD and Standard def. Also I would like to be able to schedule series and future recordings as per Sage and Beyound tv types (Not sure what software to use) watch TV while recording another channel. All recordings will be stored on a raid array. Play back will be directly back to my 46" HDTV, by which ever method is best, HDMI, component, etc. I would like a remote that will control this. The same as having a set-top box, channel switching, recording, menu's, etc.
4. Play home movies, MP3's, etc
5. Burn Recordings to DVD's
6. Raid configuration (Motherboard has Raid and 6 SATA II Ports)
7. all setup, configurations and maintenance will be handle, remotely or through my HDTV screen. In other words this server system will only have a temp. (borrowed from another system when needed) monitor, keyboard or mouse.

Stage I Build

1 ea-COOLER MASTER Stacker 810 RC-810-KKA1-GP Black Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Full Tower Computer Case RS-850-EMBA 850W Power Supply

1 ea-AMD Phenom 9950 BLACK EDITION 2.6GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 140W Quad-Core Processor

1 ea-GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-DS4H AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

1 ea-CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

2 ea-SUPERMICRO CSE-M35T-1B Black 5 Bay Hot-Swapable SATA HDD Enclosure

1 ea-LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe

2 ea-HITACHI Deskstar P7K500 HDP725050GLA360 (0A35415) 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive (I already have 4 of these drives)

1 ea-SAPPHIRE 100249L Radeon HD 3850 1GB 256-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card (Crossfired with on-board Video)

TV Tuner card or Digital Box (Homerun, Wintv, Or??) I need help with this.

OS, Windows XP Pro or Windows Home Server or Windows Server 2003. I have been playing with a number of Linux Distro's, although they have some great features I'm more adapt to Windows type OS.

PVR software, Mythtv, Sage TV, Beyond TV ????????

All this is with-in my $1300.00 Stage I budget, I need advice, are the selected components worthy, do they hold any future proof value, are there better choices.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stage II a few months down the road.

Add Blue Ray Burner/player
Add additional Video card (Crossfire x 3)
Add additonal harddrives
Add Theater sound card and speaker system

Thanks for the help

Tony

UnitedBreaks

09-16-08, 10:26 AM

vanylapep

09-16-08, 10:28 AM

If someone could help me out getting the right VGA cable..

I have purchased this cable: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5168

and it did not work with my HDTV (Samsung LN40A650). When i plug one end to the TV, it is not recognized by the TV. I have tried to use this cable with my 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor and it did not work neither. However, it worked with an 4:3 20" LCD.

Now i took one cable from work (see vga.jpg) and it is recognized by my TV as i plug one end to it. And it worked on my TV with resolution of 1920x1080.

I can't keep this cable so i have to buy another one, i would like to ask if this one could be right one?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020105&p_id=558&seq=1&format=2

It looks so like the one i bought so i'm not certain it will work?

PS. I need the audio cable too.

Thanks,

ndabunka

09-16-08, 11:18 AM

Satan.

09-16-08, 11:28 AM

I have purchased this cable: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5168

and it did not work with my HDTV (Samsung LN40A650). When i plug one end to the TV, it is not recognized by the TV. I have tried to use this cable with my 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor and it did not work neither. However, it worked with an 4:3 20" LCD.

I can't keep this cable so i have to buy another one, i would like to ask if this one could be right one?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020105&p_id=558&seq=1&format=2

It looks so like the one i bought so i'm not certain it will work?

PS. I need the audio cable too.

Thanks,

The first one your bought is most likely a dud cable, for whatever reason. Missing some pins (one missing is normal), bad wires or something of that sort that your (probably) older monitor wasn't as sensitive to. VGA cable is VGA cable is VGA cable -- all anyone can really say here is that Monoprice is extremely well-known for cheap, quality cables (I know, that's traditionally an oxymoron).

Also, check that you're outputting a hertz (60Hz) that the TV can use.

vanylapep

09-16-08, 11:32 AM

risk1994

09-16-08, 12:32 PM

Is there any issue using HA for BR and h.264 files if your using XP as OS?

renethx

09-16-08, 12:46 PM

Is there any issue using HA for BR and h.264 files if your using XP as OS?
AFAIK there is no problem in using HA with XP except the Intel chipset G45. Of course HA may not work for every H.264 file.

risk1994

09-16-08, 12:49 PM

AFAIK there is no problem in using HA with XP except the Intel chipset G45. Of course HA may not work for every H.264 file.

G45 is the chipset Im now considering? HA wont work if I go with XP? What exactly would I be losing?

renethx

09-16-08, 01:01 PM

G45 is the chipset Im now considering? HA wont work if I go with XP? What exactly would I be losing?
I have never installed XP on a G45 mb. Please look at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14587429#post14587429).

Smitty2k1

09-16-08, 01:30 PM

My thoughts on the fusion remote max (I currently own a Fusion 430 Black)
+ATX
+More HDD Bays
+Front eSATA, Firewire
+140mm side fan
- Only 1 side fan, compare to two on the Fusion 430
- WAY Bigger
- UGLY!!!
- PRICE

The remote is a wash for me as I use a Harmony. Who wants to use separate remotes for separate components?

SeattleHTGuy

09-16-08, 02:17 PM

Renethx and anyone else with helpful comments,

Well, Based on your advice and this great thread, I managed to build the CW02 based Intel Premium system. I used the Visiontek Card instead and threw the two aux fans from Nexus you recommended and upped the G-Skill Ram to 8 GB. In addition, I threw in 5 new WD Green Power TB drives and the LG Blu Ray/HD Player Burner.

I am a finance guy by trade and being just a middle aged non mechanical non tinkerer, I just have to say thanks for the input. Everything fits, the case is big enough for a whole heck of a lot of gear and I even managed to dress out the case fairly nicely. It also is amusing the damn thing weighs a good 55 lbs +. I think I'll call it "The Beast". I think the only thing I might tweak is adding a thermal or speed fan control to the two Nexus Aux fans. I currently am powering these fans by the motherboard NB fan and the Power Fan 2 plugs. This means they are running at full speed and I don't think I can switch them down. I do think I read about being able to do this in the Bios system but I can't remember (I'm a newbie on all this)

So hear are a few observations first from a total non tech person.

1). The little blue power light on the case can light up a Theater room like you can't imagine. I think I'll have to cover it up a bit. The system is very quiet given four fans and a monster GPU. Sitting in my glass front panel media enclosure, I hear almost no noise. I think you would hear it if it was plopped in an equipment rack or furniture piece out in the open and could eventually annoy you. This case is really, really, nice. It is pretty big but that's a good thing as you need space to ad cards, drives, and clean wiring. The Hex screws on top were pretty tightly stuck on so be careful not to strip them or chip them up too much. Disregard the horrible little manual on the case it kind of indicates you should take out the Hard Drive cages in one illustration and you should not; just load the drives in the beginning or right after installing the optional fans. Also plug the power supply in to the motherboard before installing the motherboard in the case. If you install the CPU cooler first before installing the power cables you will never get the Power plugs inserted. (I figured this out the hard way). You will need extra tie downs to make this thing nice and clean.

2). The I-Mon LCD is pretty slick but it's hard to figure out and install. (It has a non existent "Engrish" manual and practically no support. If you want to have a little fun, go in to the I-Mon forums on their site and read the in house gurus comments. It is damn near impossible to interpret any given response. Also they sometime take weeks to respond to a forum post. (On their own site no less)

3). Those ATI GPU cards really do heat up a room. I guess you can hack the settings to up the GPU idle fan speed and I may try to attempt this at some point. I think Rivatuner also supports fan control now but so far tweaks like this are beyond my limited skill set.

4). I couldn't get the GPU card to really fit that well in the second PCI-E 16 slot. I put it in the first slot and with some decent wiring I think my air flow is pretty good. The two little PCI-E slots on each side of the card would make tuner cards really, really, really tight. For this reason and the fact I may want to add eSata cards, I will probably opt for the SiliconDust HDHomerun unit. I can also stick the external tuner on our homes top floor and get over the air reception without having to feed wires through three floors of home. (What do you think about that?) It also seems that tuner - Microsoft Vista technology is in play right now and it may be better to wait.

Here are my only remaining problems. Does anyone have advice.

A). Each time I reboot the PC, the 1st time I get the Gigabyte Energy utility to start and then the screen locks right before you get to the Vista Desktop. I then can fire up task manager and shut down from there. The system then reboots and the next time I can get to the main desktop and Vista opens a caution about the Gigabyte program wants access, etc.... I then click allow and then I get a comment that says a GUI failed to launch and is shutting down. Finally I-Mon appears to work as does the Frontview program that controls the LCD. So here is my question for anyone using the Premium system build. i) What do I need to do to not get the double boot issue? ii) What GUI is failing to launch? I am new to Vista and again not a computer guy by trade.

B). I have middle aged ears and eyes. (Damn that whole aging thing). My current Theater system includes the following; 7.1 B&W Speaker system comprised of 5 Nautilus Series 805's an HTM2, and an ASW 2500 Subwoofer, B&K 307 Receiver being fed SPDIF in from the PC and being converted to either Dolby Digital or DTS Digital Format. The room is professionally sound treated and I am watching on a Sony VPL-VW100 projector and a Stewart Screen. In short, very good equipment.

So since this is a thread on building a HTPC here is my question. Is there really, given high quality audio equipment and a good room, a noticable difference between Dolby True HD/ DTS HD and the older compressed audio technologies? Is there a difference in using a hardware software program that down converts to 48Khz from the possible 192Khz solution. I ask because I fired up Transformers in Arcsofts TMT last night on the new PC and it showed a 48Khz rate and sounded fine. I also think the Realtek chip set did the simple task of sending Spdif out just fine. This motherboard is a massive uptick from my Dell based proprietary Soundblaster Audigy piece of #$@!@

Remember I am middle aged and unlike some bats utilizing echolocation and a few teenagers who programmed their phone to ring in a high inaudible (to adults anyway) tone I am not sure I can hear as well as a bat. I like my old tech B&K 307 and before I shell out another $3,500 or so to upgrade to a new B&K 707 uber receiver, I'd like to have some thoughts from people who have actually heard sound from good to great systems in real world situations. I fear we are going in to the logorithmic stratosphere hear where we are trying to get the absolute theoretical best sound as opposed to the actually noticeable realm of sound. All thoughts are appreciated.

Final thought.... If I can build a HTPC with a fairly high level of component complexity, anyone can. Thanks for this thread and excellent advice...

ndabunka

09-16-08, 02:41 PM

Renethx and anyone else with helpful comments,

Well, Based on your advice and this great thread,... I'd like to have some thoughts from people who have actually heard sound from good to great systems in real world situations. I fear we are going in to the logorithmic stratosphere hear where we are trying to get the absolute theoretical best sound as opposed to the actually noticeable realm of sound. All thoughts are appreciated.

I have B&W equipment in 3 rooms of my home although they are mostly the in-wall and/or in-ceiling speakers (Signature Seven and CWM 6's) and even the lowly 602's in a general family room and think that these provide pretty good bang for the buck. I have two 15-inch powered subs in my front-projector Home Theater room that probably rival your ASW (105dB max). I think the tiny audible differences you "might" experience from a new receiver would be VERY minimal and not worthy of another $3.5K investment but then again what you already have installed is (probably) worth more than two of the three late-model cars in my 3-car garage (i.e. over $60K) so my POV and yours might be a bit different as I am also using a "below" low end system for my BlueRay playback and since it's just playing back from actual DVD's, it's plenty for my purposes.

_Mick_

09-16-08, 04:23 PM

tsteves

09-16-08, 07:43 PM

SeattleHTGuy
You have great stuff!
B) Why not just go with it for now and see if it sounds good to your ears?
If you feel like you're missing something, you can decide if it's really worth the trouble and cost.
Some recent anecdotal and A/B testing results were pretty much negative for any significant audible improvements.

UnitedBreaks

09-17-08, 12:51 AM

IMO, not worth upgrading to Dolby True HD / DTS HD yet. Definately not. Especially for the $3,500.

This is coming from 23yr old ears with a Yamaha 5.1 DD/DTS system, Klipsch KLF series speakers and Velodyne subwoofer.

soulsedition

09-17-08, 10:47 AM

Hello Ladies and Gents,

First time poster, long time reader- I have to admit, after scouring this forum i find myself more confused than when i started. There are so many acronyms, file types, media types, it really sets one's head to spinning. My goal is to build an HTPC that will be able to fully integrate with the television i'm looking at (panasonic 50' Touch of color) My goal is to be able to Play World of Warcraft at full 1080 resolution, and watch Blu-ray/Streaming HD content. I would like to have a 7.1 sound system for both gaming and general movie watching. If anyone could share their experience and builds that have worked for them- I would be much obliged. This is one of the biggest things i'm looking forward to when i come home!

Sincerely,
SGT Skaggs

SeattleHTGuy

09-17-08, 12:31 PM

ndabunka, esteves, UnitedBreaks,

Thanks for your comments. I think I will just get use to the new HTPC and really just listen to the system as is. So far, after two nights, the sound is much improved from my old PC with very, very, clear sound and movie sound affects clearly audible from each speaker; clear and defined.

Thanks for the comments regarding my equipment. That is why this string is so helpful. It really drills down to how to build a great HTPC at multiple price points.

ndabumka. B&W's are fantastic speakers in almost every line. The only difference between your's and mine are most probably marginal (for sound) and cosmetic. I purchased the 805's 9 years ago and they are fantastic. It is also all about the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) as they look great and are not massive. I'd like to pick up another used ASW 2500 at some point but haven't pursued an active search just yet.

I think that many people here neglect speakers and power but then again, I imagine that would be another thread. It might be nice for Renethx to add recommended amplification and possble price points speaker sets as well or tie in another thread to discuss. New HTPC's, well built can really do just about every front end solution and will probably just eliminate the need for a true pre-amp or receiver very soon. All any PC part manufacturer need do is create minimal switching capability (say at the card level) for a game machine and an I-Pod and we're there. I wonder if anyone is working on an HDMI switch for just such a solution?

Finally, if anyone has an idea about my remaining build issues it would be appreciated.

vanylapep

09-17-08, 01:58 PM

I have the smallest HTPC
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/2864512914_cf3541f5ac.jpg

lostcase

09-17-08, 02:01 PM

lostcase

09-17-08, 02:28 PM

I have the smallest HTPC
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3011/2864512914_cf3541f5ac.jpg

vanylapep,

What are the specs for your HTPC?

KooSoul

09-17-08, 03:26 PM

i'm pratically a noon when it comes to comps, but i want to ask if nahalem is worth waiting or not since i'm not really in a hurry to build an htpc, will there be a compatibilty issue with MPC HC for the drivers and stuff cuz I'll use that like 99% of time to play my movies

honeybrain

09-17-08, 04:06 PM

20TB (21 HDD) System

Can anyone suggest Configuration for Intel Platform for 20TB DAS System.

Intel Processor, Board & RAM that supports for the above config like with Windows Home Server

SeattleHTGuy

09-17-08, 04:38 PM

The PC Build as configured by Renethx was just about exactly what he quotes or around $2,500 inclusive of all state taxes and shipping.This includes everything as well as the Visiontek 4870 card and additional fans and 8GB of memory.The additional 5 TB drives were $160 (including tax) a piece at our local Fry's. I had to go up to the counter 5 flipping times to get the "one purchase per customer" with cash but that was a pretty good deal in the end. So, total build cost was just around $3,300. It is also a Vista 64 Ultimate build.

I intend to stream multiple services to extenders or XBoxes as well as play games (when the kids are asleep) and utilize for rendering video. The machine will get a lot of use.

This is a pretty expensive build but if you look at buying a near equivalent machine (that is, if you could get it built) It would cost a great deal more. I just spec'd from VM an inferior case, board, only 3 TB drives, Vista Ultimate 32, a lesser Optical Drive, less and slower RAM with a similar GPU. It came in at $3,700 tax and shipping included. If you add 3 more hard drives, and the better components a true comparable PC would probably top $5k.

I will put up a pic tomorrow as I'm at work. It looks exactly like the pic on the recommended list though. My rack will be getting some serious surgery over the coming weekend and perhaps I'll put up a picture of it when done.

Smitty2k1

09-17-08, 08:09 PM

Here is a nice little guide Anandtech wrote up that summarizes the current state of 7.1 lossless audio in computers!!
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411

lubama

09-17-08, 08:46 PM

I posted this message in the thread I believed was right, Intel DG45ID, tough I have no answer so far.
Here is my problem:
Set to sleep mode, goes to sleep at the set time of 30 minutes, case power light is off, fans off.
At about 5 minutes re-start and then turn off, power light stays on, fans stays off. Inboard IR doesn't turn machine on by remote, can turn on and off before case power light stays on.
Every 10 minutes start and turn off right away.
All this with network cable connected, if I disconnect the cable machine stays in sleep mode and case power light off.
At BIOS in power settings:
After Power Failure (Stay off)
Wake on LAN from S5 (Stay off)
ACPI Suspend State (S3 State)
EIST (Enable)
Wake system from S5 (Disable)
Intel Gigabit Ethernet Adapter:
All 3 boxes unchecked
M/B DG45ID
CPU E 7200
Mem A-data 2 GB
1 sata HD
Sata BD
1 intake 80 mm fan
PSU 300 w

Sorry for the long thread, I think everything is explained,
Thanks in advance for the help.

Luis:(

vanylapep

09-17-08, 09:00 PM

That article has lots of contradictions..

ndabunka

09-17-08, 09:21 PM

SeattleHTGuy

09-17-08, 10:33 PM

eToolGuy

09-18-08, 01:53 AM

Does anyone know of any sellers for HD 4650 video cards? I've only found the MSI R4650-D512 at Newegg.com. Amazon has a couple of HIS 4650 cards listed, but they're out of stock. If it's still too early to buy, which manufacturer would you recommend I wait for? I'm interested in the 4650 for a low power movie only HTPC.

renethx

09-18-08, 07:23 AM

I think the only thing I might tweak is adding a thermal or speed fan control to the two Nexus Aux fans. I currently am powering these fans by the motherboard NB fan and the Power Fan 2 plugs. This means they are running at full speed and I don't think I can switch them down.
AFAIK only two fan connectors support fan speed control: CPU_FAN and SYS_FAN2. Perhaps you can connect two case fans to SYS_FAN2 and control them using a Y-adapter (http://www.bestbyteinc.com/Cables_&_Misc._Accessories/Power_Cables,_Fan_Cables/3pin_Female_-_Dual_3wire__x__3pin_Male_Fan_Power_Adapter/Page_1/CBL-FAN-3D3.html). Use SpeedFan (at first not easy to configure; see my post (http://forums.anandtech.com/textthread.aspx?catid=29&threadid=1803985&filtmsgid=22383275)) or EasyTune.

Or just use FAN MATE 2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118217) (the easiest).

A) Each time I reboot the PC, the 1st time I get the Gigabyte Energy utility to start and then the screen locks right before you get to the Vista Desktop ...
Not sure what the cause is. Let me check it ...

renethx

09-18-08, 07:51 AM

Quick question:
First off I have been addicted to this thread for a few days no and cant wait to build my first HTPC.

I am planning to build the recommended Mid level AMD/NVIDIA exactly as suggested however I am concerned about the graphics card. I need the go the nvidia route since I plan on using linux and quietness is a huge importance to me since the box will be housed about 5 to 10 feet away from viewer. My concern is that all the reviews on newegg reference it being extremely hot.

Those that have built the recommended system is this the case for you? Does it get too hot?

My intentions for the HTPC is to storage and view SD movies, hopefully Blu-ray in the future, and some linux gaming (not the super intense games out right now but still require 3d acceleration)
For video playback, there should be no heat problem. But if you play games for an extensive period of time, I am not sure. You may want to choose a card with a fan. I used to recommend the XFX model with a Zalman fan, but it seems that it has been discontinued. 8600 GT was replaced by 9500 GT. ASUS 2-slot models are usually very quiet (like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121271)).

renethx

09-18-08, 07:55 AM

renethx

09-18-08, 08:22 AM

20TB (21 HDD) System

Can anyone suggest Configuration for Intel Platform for 20TB DAS System.

Intel Processor, Board & RAM that supports for the above config like with Windows Home Server

MB: use P45 (as you need a second PCIe x16 slot @x8)

Using a 16 SATA RAID controller card (requires four expansion slots in the main system)

- HightPoint RocketRAID 2340 16 SATA port RAID controller PCIe x8 card (installed in the main system) + 4 SATA from the mb
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 5 SFF-8470 to SFF-8470 cables (e.g. HighPoint IB-1M) and PCI brackets (http://www.cooldrives.com/intoexmudupo.html) + PCI bracket (http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-multilane-pci-adapter-bracket.html) (so four expansion slots are occupied by DAS-related stuff.)

Using PM (use just one expansion slot in the main system)

- HighPoint RocketRAID 2314 4-port eSATA PM-aware RAID controller PCIe x4 card or 2 x this card (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2) (installed in the main system)
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 4 x Addonics AD5SAPM 5X1 Internal SATA Port Multiplier
- 4 x eSATA cable

If you don't like four eSATA cables, you can replace them with one InfiniBand cable (use two expansion slots in the main system):

- HighPoint RocketRAID 2310 4-port SATA RAID controller card supporting PM (installed in the main system)
- One SFF-8470 to SFF-8470 cable (e.g. HighPoint IB-1M) + 2 x PCI bracket (http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-multilane-pci-adapter-bracket.html)

Or use

- Addonics Storage Rack (http://www.addonics.com/products/raid_system/rack_overview.asp) (15 HDDs)

renethx

09-18-08, 08:30 AM

Machine wakes up by itself
Disable WOL in BIOS or disable LAN wakeup in Device Manager? If you don't get a solution in the DG45ID thread, maybe you can contact Intel tech support (I myself ran out of idea).

renethx

09-18-08, 08:35 AM

jmrexhau

09-18-08, 09:15 AM

I built my HTPC/PVR using:
Black ATX Desktop w/450W PS A3712BB.450 (http://www.athenatech.us/a3712.htm)
Promise FastTrak TX4310 107340206 (http://www.promise.com/product/product_detail_eng.asp?segment=RAID%205%20HBAs&product_id=165)
CASE FAN 80X15MM SILENX|IXP-52-11 (http://www.silenxdirect.com/ixtremaprofans.asp?sku=ixp-52-11)
CPU COOLER THERMALTAKE|CL-P0373 (http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Product.aspx?S=1137&ID=1579)
MB GIGABYTE GA-MA78GPM-DS2H 770 (http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2859&ProductName=GA-MA78GPM-DS2H)
MEM 2Gx2|CRUC BL2KIT25664AA80A R (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148212&nm_mc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel&cm_mmc=TEMC-RMA-Approvel-_-Content-_-text-_-)
HD 500G|HITC 7K 16M HDP725050GLA360 x4 (http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/site/en/menuitem.e6b513c73a0b7518e8284977eac4f0a0/)
Logitech EX110 Cordless Desktop (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboard_mice_combos/devices/154&cl=us,en)Hauppauge WINTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner/Encoder Media Center Kit (http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hvr2250.html)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Dual Core 2.60GHz 1MB AM2 Socket 65W Processor (http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=40)
RCA HDTV (http://tv.rca.com/RCATV/Assets/pdfs/R52WH77_1667740A_IB_e-06.pdf)

I'm having trouble with the display being limited to 640x480. I am going to try to install the latest video drivers for the MB, but I am looking for any answers right now. :confused:

tebba

09-18-08, 09:24 AM

How do you usually connect your HTPC to your TV? DVI->HDMI? Wouldn't it be better to connect it through HDMI->HDMI? if so, why arent there many cards out there with a HDMI port?

renethx

09-18-08, 09:38 AM

How do you usually connect your HTPC to your TV? DVI->HDMI? Wouldn't it be better to connect it through HDMI->HDMI? if so, why arent there many cards out there with a HDMI port?
I guess graphics cards for PC are primarily intended for PC monitors, so DVI is more convenient for most users (HTPC users are a minority). (HDMI-to-DVI supports 2560x1600?)

_Mick_

09-18-08, 09:50 AM

For video playback, there should be no heat problem. But if you play games for an extensive period of time, I am not sure. You may want to choose a card with a fan. I used to recommend the XFX model with a Zalman fan, but it seems that it has been discontinued. 8600 GT was replaced by 9500 GT. ASUS 2-slot models are usually very quiet (like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121271)).

Thanks!!!

Im thinking that I may try to hold off till black friday / cyber monday until purchasing everything. I have waited this long whats another month or so.

Thanks again.

tebba

09-18-08, 09:59 AM

Aren't there HDMI cards out there? Why dont htpc users use those?

renethx

09-18-08, 10:13 AM

Aren't there HDMI cards out there? Why dont htpc users use those?
There is no HD 4870 model with a HDMI connector. There are several low-end to midrange cards with HDMI connector. I am sure quite a few people in this forum are using them.

tebba

09-18-08, 10:26 AM

There is no HD 4870 model with a HDMI connector. There are several low-end to midrange cards with HDMI connector. I am sure quite a few people in this forum are using them.

Is there a huge difference between DVI and HDMI?

And are there differences between a 4870x2 card from one manufacturer and the same card from another manufacturer?

lostcase

09-18-08, 10:36 AM

What do you guys think of this set up?

http://frys.com/product/5636661

renethx

09-18-08, 10:50 AM

I'm having trouble with the display being limited to 640x480. I am going to try to install the latest video drivers for the MB, but I am looking for any answers right now. :confused:
So your TV's DVI port supports 480p and 1080i. You need configure CCC and TV correctly.

renethx

09-18-08, 10:55 AM

Is there a huge difference between DVI and HDMI?

And are there differences between a 4870x2 card from one manufacturer and the same card from another manufacturer?
No, DVI and HDMI are electrically identical.

There is no difference except for accessories and warranty.

renethx

09-18-08, 11:00 AM

What do you guys think of this set up?

http://frys.com/product/5636661
I see no problem. If you add a graphics card of your choice, it will be a good system.

tebba

09-18-08, 11:23 AM

Would i need any thermal compound to put on the CPU before i put the cooler on?

And which quiet case fans would you recommend?

Satan.

09-18-08, 11:50 AM

Hi Mr. Satan,

Thanks for the tip. Yes, i'm outputting the correct 60Hz. If i use my black cable, it does not work, but if i switch cable (the blue from work), it works.

I'll take a chance with Monoprice then :)

Does SVGA or VGA makes a difference?

Sorry it took so long for a reply. No, there isn't a difference. VGA and SVGA just signify a difference in resolution, the cabling is exactly the same. Sounds like some marketing jargon to me, in this case.

Satan.

09-18-08, 11:52 AM

OK, am I being stilly with getting a GA-EG45M-DS2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128353) board? Could I save some money by getting a lesser board and dedicated GPU?

BrundleFly

09-18-08, 12:00 PM

Hey renethx,

As always, thanks for all you do here. It really is great. I built my first HTPC about 6 months ago with your help and it is sick. I am building one for my brother this weekend and here is the build. Any problems you see with this set up?

MEMORY - 1Gx2|A-DATA ADQVE1A16K R
CASE - LIANLI|PC-C37B RT 9)
MOBO - GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H 780G RT
PSU - CORSAIR|CMPSU-450VX 450W RT
OPTICAL DRIVE - BLU-RAY ROM LITE-ON|DH-4O1S
OS - VISTA SP1 32BIT
CPU - AMD|Phenom X3 8450 2.1G AM2
HDD - Seagate 250G|ST 7K 16M SATA2 ST3250410AS

Thanks!

jim tressler

09-18-08, 12:21 PM

Depends on the heat sink - on the stock intel ones that I used for the 8400 and 7200 - both had the goop already on the heat sink. If you buy a non stock, you will have to apply the goop.

Would i need any thermal compound to put on the CPU before i put the cooler on?

And which quiet case fans would you recommend?

renethx

09-18-08, 12:27 PM

Would i need any thermal compound to put on the CPU before i put the cooler on?

And which quiet case fans would you recommend?
- Stock cooler: no (a thermal pad is already attached)
- Retail cooler: yes. Arctic Silver Arctic Silver 5 is popular.

Please check the first page.

jmrexhau

09-18-08, 12:34 PM

So your TV's DVI port supports 480p and 1080i. You need configure CCC and TV correctly.

My TV has a DVI no HDMI, so that answers everyone elses questions.

I have been running a DVD player upconverting via an HDMI->DVI cable. and everything looks fine. I switched to this computer, and I actually get bars at the top and bottom of the screen with the 640x480 streched accross the widescreen.

What is CCC? I do not know how I would set up the display on my TV, it automatically detects the display depending on the input (as I understand it.)

jim tressler

09-18-08, 12:37 PM

ccc is typically catalyst control center - the ati app that controls the ati video card - you would set it to 1080i or 480p depending on your preferences. It will then configure the card to send out a 1080i (1920x1080i) signal at 60hz

SeattleHTGuy

09-18-08, 12:38 PM

Renethx,

Thanks again for your help.

I just uninstalled the Gigabyte DES program using an Uninstall program. I figure if it costs a couple more bucks a year in power, I'll just deal with it and have one less program on the machine. This resolved the problem.

I think I'll add the fan control. Honestly I can't hear the Nexus fans at all but might as well just have them putting along since those WD Greenpower drives seem pretty cool running.

So, I'll end with thanks and again, I am a total rookie on building systems and your advice really made this process easy. I look forward to your upcoming thoughts on Tuner cards and integration with VMC. (My last big task)

ndabunka

09-18-08, 12:39 PM

Sorry rough day at the office.....

Actually the Theater has the following.

B&K 307 $2,750 (on sale)
4 805 Nautilus $4600 (Includes 2 stands)
1 HTM2 $1,000 plus stand.
1 Sony VPL-VW100 $8,000 (My Bad early adopter)
1 110" Stewart Screen with motor transports $2,750
1 B&K ASW 2500 $1100 Subwoofer
2 In Wall B&W surrounds (Forgot these earlier - again my bad) $600 7.1 system.
2 20' HDMI cables to projector $700
1 Rack $800
1 Hacked 1 TB Tivo 3 $1,200
1 Wii (For the kids and I guess me as well) $250
Professional Room treatment which includes false walls, airspace spacers, multiple RF controlled lighting and our own sweat equity $10,000.
Misc Cabling $500
HP EX475 WHS Hacked to 2Gb Ram, an AMD Athlon upgrade and an extra 6 TB drives $1,800.
Escient DVD Changer system $2,000 and wiring to upstairs.
Sony 400 Disc DVD Changer $450
Pronto Remote $650
Xantech RF system $500

I am going to ditch the disc changer and Escient server once I get TMT, AnyDVD, and VMC working. So far I've got everything except AnyDVD HD working.

PC $3,700

Grand total. A whole hell of a lot.... or $43,600 plus or minus. This may not be a fair comparison as the room was knocked down to the studs and rebuilt and all these expenditures have occured over a decade. I also got the Sony for only $2,000 really as I had an unmitigated train wreck of an experience with a previous $7,000 DWIN DLP projector that Magnolia actually gave me a full refund for to buy the Sony. They did this after owning the DWIN for two years, out of warranty and at their charge due to the pathetic experience with DWIN. I have learned to go non esoteric but hi quality with manufacturers such as Denon (Upstairs system), B&K, B&W, Sony and Phillips. I have also learned to not early adopt anymore. As I said Home Theater is my passion and I am new to the HTPC arena. That is why I appreciate this thread and web site. Oh I also own a Panasonic BD30 Blu Ray which is heading upstairs as well. Finally I've got quite a number of little systems throughout the house that I intend to plug in to the new "Beast"

np and thanks for taking the time to share your set up. Probably more than a few of us coveting yours. For others reading this, these things can get expensive or they can be economical depending on your level of sensitivity and pocketbook can afford. I have a "scaled down" version of SeattleHTGuys setup that you can find by searching on my name in the root section of this forum. Mine also extends beyond solely the Home Theater to also encompass the Whole House audio and uses the Cinemar application (This was one of the few HTPC options years back) and provides a very good programmable interface (using touch screen PCs) for consolidation of all remotes as well as control of the entire system (an programming alternative to the Xantech, AMX, Niles, RussSound alternatives). Now that many of you have built the HTPC, take a look into the other sections of these forums that go into more and more detail about the additional options.

renethx

09-18-08, 12:40 PM

OK, am I being stilly with getting a GA-EG45M-DS2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128353) board? Could I save some money by getting a lesser board and dedicated GPU?
A possible alternative is:

- GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L, $59
- Radeon HD 4550, $39

If HD 4550 (released on September 30) performs as expected, this combination is better than GA-EG45M-DS2H in several points:

- cheaper
- proper support for BD playback at 24Hz
- better 3D performance

Cons are:

- +20W power consumption
- less SATA ports, no RAID, no optical connector, no IEEE 1394

renethx

09-18-08, 12:46 PM

I am building one for my brother this weekend and here is the build. Any problems you see with this set up?
A good selection. Do you use the stock cooler? Zalman CNPS8700 LED is good for a low-profile case.

ndabunka

09-18-08, 12:51 PM

Anyone on here have a recommendation for a good, solid, quality BLACK color ONLY case with built-in power supply for a reasonable price ($80 to $120)? As others may have noticed in prior post, I don't need/can't use the dial on the outside of the box as I don't need it to control volume on my solution.

So far, the leading condenter is the ever-present Antex Fusion430. I would actually prefer it's "little brother" the NSK2480 but it doesn't come in a black face (same with the $120 nMedia box). All the rest of my rack equipment (Yamaha RV-2400, Niles 6-channel Amp, DVD player, etc is all black) and even the doors to the built-in wall unit are smoked black so a silver component sitting in the middle of that would stand out.

Note: I can get the 430 for as low as $160 outright (including shipping) or I can even buy it for $190 (shipping also included) and then wait 1.5billion years for a $50 rebate. I also have Amazon credits coming so the $160 could easily be $135 in the near future (i.e. two weeks when the certs would be available). So, in the end, I can get the Fusion (with the useless knob) for $135 but would actually prefer to buy something like one of the $200 Silverstone's without a knob IF I could find it (or something like it) for a reasonable price (i.e. under $150)

soulsedition

09-18-08, 01:26 PM

Renethx, in your post you recommend the Lite-on DH-4O1S-11 for blu-ray playback. I was reading the comments on newegg and it says that this particular drive has trouble/cannot play back dual layer blu-ray disks? If this is the case, what would the next step up be? Also, I posted earlier about trying my hand at building a gaming/HTPC and i believe i'll be going with your intel/intel build, once i can talk the wifey into it of course. It shouldn't be too hard as she'll be so happy to see me once i get back from the sandbox she'll check off on anything. I plan to capitalize on that! :)

BrundleFly

09-18-08, 01:55 PM

A good selection. Do you use the stock cooler? Zalman CNPS8700 LED is good for a low-profile case.

Funny you ask thats the only thing I was unsure of and couldn't find anything that said a stock cooler that would work for the case. Thanks for the input! I am gonna see how loud it is and then make a selection if I can't handle the noise.

renethx

09-18-08, 02:21 PM

Renethx, in your post you recommend the Lite-on DH-4O1S-11 for blu-ray playback. I was reading the comments on newegg and it says that this particular drive has trouble/cannot play back dual layer blu-ray disks?
The majority (maybe all) of BD movies I have are dual layer and I haven't seen any problem with DH-4O1S. Another choice is LG.

tebba

09-18-08, 03:08 PM

- Stock cooler: no (a thermal pad is already attached)
- Retail cooler: yes. Arctic Silver Arctic Silver 5 is popular.

Please check the first page.

Do i need anything to remove the old pad?

jim tressler

09-18-08, 03:20 PM

the pad will come off with the old heatsink - assuming its on.. otherwise, you may need to clean the surface (very carefully) of the chip

renethx

09-18-08, 04:19 PM

Do i need anything to remove the old pad?
To clean the surface of the chip, use pure isopropyl alcohol and lint-free cloths (if you don't know where to buy, click here (http://www.datalinksales.com/cgi-bin/shop/datstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Cleaning%20Supplies%3BComputer%20%26%20Electronic)) .

tebba

09-18-08, 04:46 PM

To clean the surface of the chip, use pure isopropyl alcohol and lint-free cloths (if you don't know where to buy, click here (http://www.datalinksales.com/cgi-bin/shop/datstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Cleaning%20Supplies%3BComputer%20%26%20Electronic)) . Oops, I remember you live in UK?

Norway actually. :)

Would it be easier buying ArctiClean (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arcticlean.htm) ?

renethx

09-18-08, 05:08 PM

Would it be easier buying ArctiClean (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arcticlean.htm) ?
Yes, you can use it instead of alcohol.

lubama

09-18-08, 08:14 PM

Disable WOL in BIOS or disable LAN wakeup in Device Manager? If you don't get a solution in the DG45ID thread, maybe you can contact Intel tech support (I myself ran out of idea)..

Thanks a lot renethx
I have been following this forum for a very long time, and I can see you are a very knowledgeable person, doing a great job helping others.
I have been trying to find this problem for about 2 weeks, ran out of ideas, tried different settings and unless a setting is hidden I might end up contacting Intel, I am not really looking forward to remove the board, I have everything very neat inside a small case, but a the same time I will like to replace the stock cooler for something else and I am trying to decide between Scythe "SHURIKEN" or Zalman CNPS8000 Low Profile. The case is 100mm on the outside, tough I should have about 80mm or so on the inside for the cooler. I know you recommend the Scythe above all, Price? or Quality/Low noise? I will like your input if there is not inconvenience .

Luis

monk3yboy

09-19-08, 12:43 AM

I am looking to build a fairly basic HTPC that will be used for watching movies (upscaled SD and 1080p /720p MKVs), recorded TV (upscaled SD and 720p/1080i) and playing music. Maybe some light web browsing. No gaming at all. I may hook up my Xbox HD DVD player to this as my current 360 doesn't have an HDMI out. I will probably eventually add a BR drive as time goes on. This will be driving an HP 42" 1080p TV. Sound wise this will be feeding my old Sony receiver which doesn't even have HDMI switching so sound over HDMI is a non issue. I will most likely be using either the optical or coaxial out on the mobo.

Right now I have the OS (Vista 32 bit), two 250 GB Hdds, Scythe Ninja Mini, and an Antec Fusion (1st gen baby).

The parts I am looking to pick up (sooner rather than later) are the mobo, Ram and CPU. I was looking at pairing a BE-2400 with an ASUS M3A78-EM and then picking up whatever the cheapest 2x1 Gb ram package I could find. As the CPU is on sale for 31.99, will this be enough to do what I am looking to accomplish or should I save up a bit more and go for a 4850e? Right now I am trying to save up for a media server and so I want as cheap as possible, but that's a whole different thread. Thoughts?

renethx

09-19-08, 07:12 AM

I will like to replace the stock cooler for something else and I am trying to decide between Scythe "SHURIKEN" or Zalman CNPS8000 Low Profile. The case is 100mm on the outside, tough I should have about 80mm or so on the inside for the cooler. I know you recommend the Scythe above all, Price? or Quality/Low noise?
CNPS8000 uses a 90mm fan that is slightly noisier than the 100mm fan of Shuriken or the 110mm fan of CNPS8700 at the same CFM.

renethx

09-19-08, 07:21 AM

The parts I am looking to pick up (sooner rather than later) are the mobo, Ram and CPU. I was looking at pairing a BE-2400 with an ASUS M3A78-EM and then picking up whatever the cheapest 2x1 Gb ram package I could find. As the CPU is on sale for 31.99, will this be enough to do what I am looking to accomplish or should I save up a bit more and go for a 4850e? Right now I am trying to save up for a media server and so I want as cheap as possible, but that's a whole different thread. Thoughts?
Basically BE-2400 is fine.

HD 3200 + Athlon is weak in deinterlacing interlaced material. If this matters for you, I recommend either:

- BE-2400 + Radeon HD 4550 (September 30, $39)

or

- Phenom X3 4850

bgee

09-19-08, 09:40 AM

renethx

09-19-08, 09:54 AM

I'm building up a HTPC and considering the Asus EAH3450/DI/256M video card, which has HDMI, DVI, and VGA connectors. Can anyone tell me how many monitors can actually be driven simultaneously? I'd like to drive a VGA monitor (1280X1024) plus cloned HDMI monitor (HDTV) and DVI monitor (PC) at 1920X1080. Is there any way that little video card would drive all that?
Two. If you are building a new system, the cheapest way to drive three displays is use a mb with IGP (780G or 790GX). Or add another Radeon card (PCIe if your mb has two PCIe x16 slots, or PCI). You have to choose either clone mode (all three cloned with the smallest resolution 1280X1024) or extended mode (extended over the three).

bgee

09-19-08, 11:17 AM

You have to choose either clone mode (all three cloned with the smallest resolution 1280X1024) or extended mode (extended over the three).
Thanks much for the response. I assume that means you can't have a mixed mode of one 1280X1024 monitor extended over a cloned pair of 1920X1080 monitors. So the way to accomplish this would be extended mode plus an external powered HDMI splitter off the 1920X1080 monitor output?

renethx

09-19-08, 11:23 AM

I assume that means you can't have a mixed mode of one 1280X1024 monitor extended over a cloned pair of 1920X1080 monitors.
You can't mix the two modes.

d60pdp

09-19-08, 11:53 AM

- Stock cooler: no (a thermal pad is already attached)
- Retail cooler: yes. Arctic Silver Arctic Silver 5 is popular.

Please check the first page.

For a stock cooler, can I install with the already used thermal pad for the 2nd installation if the CPU was only barely used, approx. 5 minutes, in the 1st installation? Thanks.

renethx

09-19-08, 12:18 PM

For a stock cooler, can I install with the already used thermal pad for the 2nd installation if the CPU was only barely used, approx. 5 minutes, in the 1st installation? Thanks.
So you attached the cooler, then removed it and you want to reattach it to the same CPU? Yes, basically no problem.

vanylapep

09-19-08, 02:06 PM

A possible alternative is:

- GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L, $59
- Radeon HD 4550, $39

If HD 4550 (released on September 30) performs as expected, this combination is better than GA-EG45M-DS2H in several points:

- cheaper
- proper support for BD playback at 24Hz
- better 3D performance

Cons are:

- +20W power consumption
- less SATA ports, no RAID, no optical connector, no IEEE 1394

So S2H does not support proper BD@24Hz?

renethx

09-19-08, 02:27 PM

So S2H does not support proper BD@24Hz?
G45 in general does not work at 24Hz properly yet, although some say OK.

AbMagFab

09-19-08, 02:38 PM

G45 in general does not work at 24Hz properly yet, although some say OK.

Neither does the 4850, although it's slightly better than the G45.

Is the 4550 better than the 4850, or the same?

renethx

09-19-08, 02:42 PM

Neither does the 4850, although it's slightly better than the G45.

Is the 4550 better than the 4850, or the same?
Yup, there is no pefect solution for 24p. G45 is worse. I assume 4550=4600 series=4800 series in this matter.

ndabunka

09-19-08, 03:52 PM

Yup, there is no pefect solution for 24p. G45 is worse. I assume 4550=4600 series=4800 series in this matter.

Is this 24fps issue related to HD stored media only? The reason I ask is because the 24fps rate "seems" to work just fine on my lowly single processor CPU MB/Radeon 3650 GPU ($80 for everything) playing directly from a disk using PowerDVD. However, I say "seems" to work because I don't actually see any way of VERIFYING that the 24fps I have requested in PowerDVD is doing anything other than the 24fps it is set for (i.e. it show 24fps). Is there an alternate tool that resides on the desktop that can verify this for us?

ndabunka

09-19-08, 03:59 PM

I assume that means you can't have a mixed mode of one 1280X1024 monitor extended over a cloned pair of 1920X1080 monitors.
You can't mix the two modes.

renethx: You can't mix the two modes.

But you can have one monitor set to 1280x1024 and the other set to 1920x1080 and the GPU will span these two different resolutions as a single workspace. At least, that is how I do it today. The Multisync monitor can handle anything but since it's only a 20-inch display I find that 1280x1024 provides the best (i.e. easiest to use) screen display for the applications and tools and "extend" the workspace to the second, larger 37-inch LCD display operating at 1920x1080.

edited - nevermind. I see that you are addressing THREE screens, two of which are clones and directing the inquisitor to retain the same resolution across those two cloned screens...

tebba

09-19-08, 04:36 PM

How do i know if a setup is 32-bit or 64-bit? Which version of windows do i choose?

AbMagFab

09-19-08, 04:44 PM

Is this 24fps issue related to HD stored media only? The reason I ask is because the 24fps rate "seems" to work just fine on my lowly single processor CPU MB/Radeon 3650 GPU ($80 for everything) playing directly from a disk using PowerDVD. However, I say "seems" to work because I don't actually see any way of VERIFYING that the 24fps I have requested in PowerDVD is doing anything other than the 24fps it is set for (i.e. it show 24fps). Is there an alternate tool that resides on the desktop that can verify this for us?

You set 24fps as a refresh rate in Windows.

The issue is a slight stutter/judder as the internal clock doesn't quite match the 24fps rate that the film is stored in.

If your TV/monitor is set to 60hz, you see a different slight stutter/judder as TMT (and possibly your TV) tries to fill in the extra frames.

In any case, you will likely only see this issue on a larger TV, and if you're sensitive to any sort of motion irregularities.

renethx

09-19-08, 04:44 PM

Is this 24fps issue related to HD stored media only?

Is there an alternate tool that resides on the desktop that can verify this for us?
No.

Don't know a desktop tool to very.

renethx

09-19-08, 05:05 PM

How do i know if a setup is 32-bit or 64-bit? Which version of windows do i choose?
Basically either one is OK. 64-bit supports more than 4GB memory. Other that that there is no particular benefit of using 64-bit OS in HTPC (unless you use applications optimized for 64-bit). I am not sure of the current status of software compatibility as I always use 32-bit.

Joseph Clark

09-19-08, 05:19 PM

I need to upgrade one of my UnRAID boxes and I'm looking at the Abit AB9 Pro motherboard, along with the Addonics AD5SAPM port multiplier - both mentioned here. I have 16 parity/data drives and will be using a cache disk. Has anyone here used the Addonics cards with the AB9 Pro and UnRAID?

I understand that 3 of the Abit SATA ports are port multiplier capable, and it would simplify things to use a couple of those cards instead of costlier PCIe SATA controllers. I am concerned about speed being impacted too much with PM's (especially parity checks). Anyone running this board with PM's and UnRAID?

renethx

09-19-08, 05:52 PM

ndabunka

09-19-08, 05:59 PM

You set 24fps as a refresh rate in Windows.

The issue is a slight stutter/judder as the internal clock doesn't quite match the 24fps rate that the film is stored in.

If your TV/monitor is set to 60hz, you see a different slight stutter/judder as TMT (and possibly your TV) tries to fill in the extra frames.

In any case, you will likely only see this issue on a larger TV, and if you're sensitive to any sort of motion irregularities.

Thanks for the follow up clarifications. I don't run Total Media Theater so maybe that explains why I don't see it...there is no application trying to generate extra un-needed frames. Either that or perhaps the 37LG50 simply does a better job at this than other LCDs

I did set CCC to 24fps and it appears tuned that way so I am fairly certain it is running at that delivery speed. I am running XP Home with only 768MB of 333MHz RAM.

I am (generally) pretty critical as far as PQ goes and although this is only a 37-inch display, I do sit less than 3 feet away from it while using it as a monitor (for business and/or when testing for any jitter issues) and then have the ability to rotate it 90-degrees and lay it flat against the wall for more typical standard HT-style viewing from about 9 to 11 feet.

In the near future, I will be moving this HTPC into my in-wall equipment rack (located in the closet between my office and the more formal HT room) at which time I will have the ability to output it to the larger 96-inch by 72-inch Drop down screen (note: also adjust to the 16:9 equivalent and/or 2:35 equivalent when those formats are used on that same display) so that may give me an opportunity to see what you are mentioning. However, that particular projector can't display the same 1080p I am running to the LCD. Once in that placement, I will also have a 3rd display (a 42-inch Plasma) connected via Component connections I could use as a 3rd reference option.

AbMagFab

09-19-08, 06:09 PM

Thanks for the follow up clarifications. I don't run Total Media Theater so maybe that explains why I don't see it...there is no application trying to generate extra un-needed frames. Either that or perhaps the 37LG50 simply does a better job at this than other LCDs

I did set CCC to 24fps and it appears tuned that way so I am fairly certain it is running at that delivery speed. I am running XP Pro with only 768MB of 333MHz RAM.

I am (generally) pretty critical as far as PQ goes and although this is only a 37-inch display, I do sit less than 3 feet away from it while using it as a monitor (for business and/or when testing for any jitter issues) and then have the ability to rotate it 90-degrees and lay it flat against the wall for standard HT-style viewing.

In the near future, I will be moving this HTPC into my in-wall equipment rack (located in the closet between my office and the more formal HT room) at which time I will have the ability to output it to the larger 96-inch by 72-inch Drop down screen (note: also adjust to the 16:9 equivalent and/or 2:35 equivalent when those formats are used on that same display) so that may give me an opportunity to see what you are mentioning. However, that particular projector can't display the same 1080p I am running to the LCD. Once in that placement, I will also have a 3rd display (a 42-inch Plasma) connected via Component connections I could use as a 3rd reference option.

The only reason to set your refresh to 24p is to display 24p material, like a BD movie (although there are other sources for 24p movies). I mentioned TMT, but you have to use something to play the 24p media. What are you using?

monk3yboy

09-19-08, 07:13 PM

Basically BE-2400 is fine.

HD 3200 + Athlon is weak in deinterlacing interlaced material. If this matters for you, I recommend either:

- BE-2400 + Radeon HD 4550 (September 30, $39)

or

- Phenom X3 4850

Thanks renethx! Ordered today and hope to be enjoying it later next week.

Joseph Clark

09-19-08, 08:25 PM

Acutually 4? 2 from JMB363 (command-based), 2 from SiI3132 (FIS-based). Don't know about speed under unRAID (in paticular JMB363). There are cheap SiI3132-based cards (like this, $15.86 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2)), that will support up to 20 drives along with the onboard SiI3132.

(Hmm, using two of this card is a good idea instead of using a pricey 4-port PM-aware card >$150.)

Hi, renethx. This is a great thread you have here. I've been following it since the days of Troy and that little adventure into HTPCs.

I think I'll try the AB9 Pro and Addonics cards and see if UnRAID will recognize the drives attached to them. It seems likely it will, but who knows. I'll report back here for anyone who might be interested.

Since the "good old days," I've actually made a lot of progress with my HTPC. I now have a couple of UnRAID boxes (15TBs of storage total) and a Vista-based HTPC using the Asus P5Q mobo and a Radeon 4850. Sound and picture quality are excellent, and my Vista Media Center remote works with PowerDVD for easy playback of HD DVD and Blu-ray.

That was, of course, until my older Abit mobo decided to get flaky on me and I have to upgrade the one UnRAID box. When I get that system back up and running, I actually might be able to relax and just enjoy this hobby for a while, instead of constantly fiddling with it.

Yeah, that's gonna happen. :D

ndabunka

09-19-08, 08:59 PM

The only reason to set your refresh to 24p is to display 24p material, like a BD movie (although there are other sources for 24p movies). I mentioned TMT, but you have to use something to play the 24p media. What are you using?

Yep, the only DVD playback I use this for is to play BD movies directly form the BD DVD's. I use the software that was packaged with my Sony BD player, PowerDVD for playback. However, I do also use Cinemar's Mainlobby, DVDLobby, XMLobby and WeatherLobby for the Home Theater (HT) and Whole House Automation (WHA) automation but these are essentially only in dormant resident memory when PowerDVD is running.

honeybrain

09-19-08, 10:45 PM

MB: use P45 (as you need a second PCIe x16 slot @x8)

Using a 16 SATA RAID controller card (requires four expansion slots in the main system)

- HightPoint RocketRAID 2340 16 SATA port RAID controller PCIe x8 card (installed in the main system) + 4 SATA from the mb
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 5 SFF-8470 to SFF-8470 cables (e.g. HighPoint IB-1M) and PCI brackets (http://www.cooldrives.com/intoexmudupo.html) + PCI bracket (http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-multilane-pci-adapter-bracket.html) (so four expansion slots are occupied by DAS-related stuff.)

Using PM (use just one expansion slot in the main system)

- HighPoint RocketRAID 2314 4-port eSATA PM-aware RAID controller PCIe x4 card or 2 x this card (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2) (installed in the main system)
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 4 x Addonics AD5SAPM 5X1 Internal SATA Port Multiplier
- 4 x eSATA cable

If you don't like four eSATA cables, you can replace them with one InfiniBand cable (use two expansion slots in the main system):

- HighPoint RocketRAID 2310 4-port SATA RAID controller card supporting PM (installed in the main system)
- One SFF-8470 to SFF-8470 cable (e.g. HighPoint IB-1M) + 2 x PCI bracket (http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-multilane-pci-adapter-bracket.html)

Or use

- Addonics Storage Rack (http://www.addonics.com/products/raid_system/rack_overview.asp) (15 HDDs)

renethx
i am looking for the same config you suggested on your DAS listings. It's coming below 1k. But if i use 16SATA Raid card would cost me more than 600. Just use the same config as you suggested on 20TB DAS System? Will that work with P45 Mobo? So that i can build budget Storage Server.

Btw i already have HTPC built with 8TB, I am about to be maxed out.

This 20TB DAS will be for my storage requirements. As i am trying to install Windows Home Server, i would like to stick to Intel. May be if WHS supports AMD, i can use the same exact configuration what you have suggested in DAS Area.

Appreciated your inputs

AbMagFab

09-20-08, 12:03 AM

Yep, the ONLY thing I use this for is to play BD movies directly form the BD DVD's. I use the software that was packaged with my Sony BD player, PowerDVD for playback. I use Cinemar's Mainlobby, DVDLobby, XMLobby and Weather for the Home Theater (HT) and Whole House Automation (WHA) automation but these are essentially only in dormant resident memory when PowerDVD is running.

The 24p issue is mostly about the video card, not the player. PDVD and TMT behave the same on everything I've seen so far, as it relates to 24p.

You don't see it either because your monitor is just too small, or you don't really care about it (which is okay).

AbMagFab

09-20-08, 12:04 AM

MB: use P45 (as you need a second PCIe x16 slot @x8)

Using a 16 SATA RAID controller card (requires four expansion slots in the main system)

- HightPoint RocketRAID 2340 16 SATA port RAID controller PCIe x8 card (installed in the main system) + 4 SATA from the mb
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 5 SFF-8470 to SFF-8470 cables (e.g. HighPoint IB-1M) and PCI brackets (http://www.cooldrives.com/intoexmudupo.html) + PCI bracket (http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-multilane-pci-adapter-bracket.html) (so four expansion slots are occupied by DAS-related stuff.)

Using PM (use just one expansion slot in the main system)

- HighPoint RocketRAID 2314 4-port eSATA PM-aware RAID controller PCIe x4 card or 2 x this card (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2) (installed in the main system)
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 4 x Addonics AD5SAPM 5X1 Internal SATA Port Multiplier
- 4 x eSATA cable

If you don't like four eSATA cables, you can replace them with one InfiniBand cable (use two expansion slots in the main system):

- HighPoint RocketRAID 2310 4-port SATA RAID controller card supporting PM (installed in the main system)
- One SFF-8470 to SFF-8470 cable (e.g. HighPoint IB-1M) + 2 x PCI bracket (http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-multilane-pci-adapter-bracket.html)

Or use

- Addonics Storage Rack (http://www.addonics.com/products/raid_system/rack_overview.asp) (15 HDDs)

Ren - Can you explain how this works? If I load up the chassis with 15 1TB drives, how can I connect it to my PC with only 4 eSATA cables?

craig aguiar

09-20-08, 12:48 AM

Hey everybody. I'm trying to keep up here but I'm a little behind.

What are my options these days to get the most out of a BluRay player. I was looking at the new Asus Xonar HDAV card but it looks like it won't fit beside the video card I have. So at this point it's looking like I'll either be replacing the MoBo or the Video Card. If either of these negates the need to by the Asus HDAV then bonus. The end result I'm looking for is non-downsampled audio output over HDMI as Losless Multi Chanel PCM. I'm not interested in bitstream as my receiver will not decode the newer Dolby or DTS formats. Can anyone recomend a mother board and/or video card that will do this?

Thanks, Craig

AbMagFab

09-20-08, 12:59 AM

whiskeynsoda

09-20-08, 02:26 AM

I cant seem to get a decent signal strength on my VMC...back track a bit.. hears what i got:

HP m9250f
Q6700
nvidia 8600gt 512mb
wini tv hvr 1800 tuner
vista 64 bit home prem.
all drivers updated.
(I dont know how to tell what kind of mobo i have)
connected to my Samsung 5064 plasma via HDMI.

The ota rg6 coax cable goes through a splitter (the second is for the tv in the kitchen and have no problems with quality of pic on either set) then it goes into my PANAMAX 5300 and out to the PC/tuner card (digital ant). When I setup Tv in VMC it will find the tuner, but when i scan channels for signal strength each channel is 1 out of 5 bars. I make my own coax cables and have tried multiple connections to no avail still fuzzy pic. I have adjusted setting of display in the 8600gt,and in VMC but still fuzzy pic. any ideas.

If this is in the wrong thread sorry..

renethx

09-20-08, 03:47 AM

i am looking for the same config you suggested on your DAS listings. It's coming below 1k. But if i use 16SATA Raid card would cost me more than 600. Just use the same config as you suggested on 20TB DAS System? Will that work with P45 Mobo? So that i can build budget Storage Server.
Which DAS are you referring to, page 1 or page 85?

Building a 20TB DAS costs nearly the same as building a 20TB server (16-port RAID card = $430; 4-port card+4xPM=$370-$510 vs. CPU+mb+RAM+controller=$400). Then I would build a server (as I can place it at a different place).

WHS works with an AMD system. (Do you find any problem with AMD processor or something else?)

renethx

09-20-08, 03:51 AM

Ren - Can you explain how this works? If I load up the chassis with 15 1TB drives, how can I connect it to my PC with only 4 eSATA cables?
Each port multiplier-aware SATA port is multiplied into 5 SATA ports by the port multiplier SiI3726. SiI4726 can be used with a SATA port that is not PM-aware. Both chips are used in DAS in page 85 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#DAS) (AMS DS-2350S VENUS T5, Rosewill RSV-S8).

http://www.sci-worx.com/images/products/SiI_3726.jpg

http://www.sci-worx.com/images/products/4726_front_400PX.gif

For a custom built system, use Addonics AD5SAPM (SiI3726):

http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/images/ad5sapm_diagram.gif

soulsedition

09-20-08, 05:34 AM

The following is a list of components i'm kicking around for my first HTPC. The television will be a Samsung Touch of Color, probably the 650 model. I will be running an ONKYO SR606 Receiver, and an XBOX 360. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice as far as compatibility issues, future-proofing, or what TV Tuner i should get? (FIOS HDTV) I wouldn't mind getting a soundcard, but i figure if i'm running it through a receiver that should be sufficient. Thanks in advance for any advice!
RAM: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK

MotherboardASUS M3A78-T AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

Video Card: SAPPHIRE 100251SR Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

PSU: ENERMAX MODU82+ EMD625AWT 625W ATX12V Ver.2.3 PSU

Processor:AMD Phenom 9950 BLACK EDITION 2.6GHz Socket AM2+ 140W Quad-Core Processor

HD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

BD Drive: LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray DVD ROM SATA Model DH-4O1S-08 - Retail

What are the benefits of VISTA 64 vs 32 when it comes to this setup?

jmrexhau

09-20-08, 07:32 AM

Well, I was able to get my screen resolution changed after installing the up to date driver. Now I am having a serious issue. I set up Media center, and added my Hauppauge 2250 card, downloaded the guide, and when I go to look at a channel, my computer resets after 3-5 seconds viewing the show.

Could be related:
My onboard network will not start due to what I suspect is a mishandled package with a serious dent. :eek:

Sepen

09-20-08, 08:14 AM

I have the Abit IP 35 E, 6420, 8600gts right now and am thinking of upgrading to the Asus P5Q Pro, e8400 and 4650. For BR, HDTV, mkv and DVD playback. My question is would I see any improvement in picture quality, mainly dvd's? I use KMplayer and VMC for playback.

thanks all...

renethx

09-20-08, 09:53 AM

AbMagFab

09-20-08, 10:51 AM

Each port multiplier-aware SATA port is multiplied into 5 SATA ports by the port multiplier SiI3726. SiI4726 can be used with a SATA port that is not PM-aware. Both chips are used in DAS in page 85 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#DAS) (AMS DS-2350S VENUS T5, Rosewill RSV-S8).
For a custom built system, use Addonics AD5SAPM (SiI3726):

For a custom built system (I just want to add this to an existing PC), can I connect my RcketRaid 2224 card to this chassis in some way? Would it just look like multiple 5TB drives to the RocketRaid?

renethx

09-20-08, 11:14 AM

For a custom built system (I just want to add this to an existing PC), can I connect my RcketRaid 2224 card to this chassis in some way? Would it just look like multiple 5TB drives to the RocketRaid?
Its SATA controller is Marvell 88SX6081 (the same as Supermicro 8-port PCI-X card in my recommendations in page 85) and this does not support PM. It is restricted to direct connect SATA interfaces (http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/highpoint/2224/). So you can connect up to 8 SATA drives (8TB if you use 1TB drives) to your controller card.

But as I wrote before, a 2-port PM-aware SATA control card is only $16 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2). If you use two of this card, you should be able to connect 20 HDDs (20TB) (not tested ;))

- 2 x this card (SiI3132) (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2) (to be installed in the main system). (Or use HighPoint RocketRAID 2314 4-port eSATA PM-aware RAID controller PCIe x4 card ~$170.)
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 4 x Addonics AD5SAPM 5X1 Internal SATA Port Multiplier (SiI3726)
- 4 x eSATA cable

AbMagFab

09-20-08, 11:52 AM

Its SATA controller is Marvell 88SX6081 (the same as Supermicro 8-port PCI-X card in my recommendations in page 85) and this does not support PM. It is restricted to direct connect SATA interfaces (http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/highpoint/2224/). So you can connect up to 8 SATA drives (8TB if you use 1TB drives) to your controller card.

But as I wrote before, a 2-port PM-aware SATA control card is only $16 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2). If you use two of this card, you should be able to connect 20 HDDs (20TB) (not tested ;))

- 2 x this card (SiI3132) (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10407&cs_id=1040702&p_id=3581&seq=1&format=2) (to be installed in the main system). (Or use HighPoint RocketRAID 2314 4-port eSATA PM-aware RAID controller PCIe x4 card ~$170.)
- NORCO PRC-4020
- 650W-750W PSU
- 4 x Addonics AD5SAPM 5X1 Internal SATA Port Multiplier (SiI3726)
- 4 x eSATA cable

Gotcha... so do the PM aware cards know that there are multiple drives on the other side, or do they see it as one bi drive?

renethx

09-20-08, 11:58 AM

Gotcha... so do the PM aware cards know that there are multiple drives on the other side, or do they see it as one bi drive?
If 5 drives are connected to a PM which is connected to a PM-aware SATA controller, then OS recoginzes 5 drives. If the SATA controller is non PM-aware, OS recoginzes only one drive, the rest four drives are not recognized.

AbMagFab

09-20-08, 11:59 AM

If 5 drives are connected to a PM which is connected to a PM-aware SATA controller, then OS recoginzes 5 drives. If the SATA controller is non PM-aware, OS recoginzes only one drive, the rest four drives are not recognized.

Thanks Ren!

Chris Rein

09-20-08, 12:23 PM

renethx,

First of all, thanks for putting up the recommended list. I pretty much followed what you have to build a WHS and so far so good...sort of.

Everything was put together with no issues. I've gone and made a bootable USB Flash Drive to install via USB. Well, I can't boot off of it. I've gone into the settings, followed the guides on how to do it (including the USB setup) and the Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H simply WILL NOT boot from the USB stick. It won't even show up in the BIOS to select it as a hard disk bootable priority. The screwed up thing of it all is that if I go into the QBIOS, I can see the USB stick as a floppy disk. I've even been able to update the BIOS to the latest of the USB memory stick to see if that works. The BIOS updated succesfully, but still won't let me boot off the USB. I did change "first/second/thrid" boot device to have USB-HDD as the lead. Even tried Floppy as QBIOS showed it like that. Any suggestions?

This is what I did to set up the stick in Vista...

diskpart
list disk
select disk 2
clean
create partition primary
select partition 1
active
format fs=fat32
assign
exit

I then copied all of the WHS DVD info to it.

When I boot the system up, it says "Remove disks or any other media. Press any key to restart." I have nothing else installed. No DVD/CD ROM drive. Only the HDD and the Corsair Flash Drive. I can even see it in post, however, trying to change priorities in the BIOS, it doesn't show up. If I take the stick out, it then will get past that message, but then stop and say that the hard drive (unformatted) isn't a system drive.

I even have Onchip USB Controller, USB EHCI Controller and Legacy USB storage detect all on.

Any ideas?

Smitty2k1

09-20-08, 01:46 PM

AbMagFab

09-20-08, 01:54 PM

I need some storage advice. In my media server I had a slew of HDDs that fed media to the rest of the PC's on the network. However, yesterday all the media on one of the drives quit playing. I went to the PC they were stored on and tried opening files directly from the HDD. I got "I/O Errors". I reset the computer which froze after POST (where it recognizes all the SATA HDDs) but would boot up from a complete poweroff.

I reset the BIOS to optimized defaults and when I reset the computer again the S.M.A.R.T. on the bad HDD reported "HARD DRIVE FAILURE IMMANENT BACKUP ALL DATA IMMEDIATELY" So luckily I had free space to copy all the data from the bad HDD to another one. Once copied (which copied at full speed) all of my files open and play correctly from the new HDD. So I went to explore this hard drive problem some more and tried using window's built in error checking program which just wouldn't run for that particular hard drive. I also tried reformatting, but after 24 hours it has only gotten to 2%

Anyone got any advice for me? Is the HDD shot? Or was it just a simple error that can be fixed with a reformat? I'm assuming there is no physical damage to the drive since I was able to copy all the data on it to a new source.

Hard drive is shot. Suggest Windows Home Server or RAID for fault-tolerant storage of your media.

Hard drives will all eventually fail.

ndabunka

09-20-08, 04:30 PM

I need some storage advice. In my media server I had a slew of HDDs that fed media to the rest of the PC's on the network. However, yesterday all the media on one of the drives quit playing. I went to the PC they were stored on and tried opening files directly from the HDD. I got "I/O Errors". I reset the computer which froze after POST (where it recognizes all the SATA HDDs) but would boot up from a complete poweroff.

I reset the BIOS to optimized defaults and when I reset the computer again the S.M.A.R.T. on the bad HDD reported "HARD DRIVE FAILURE IMMANENT BACKUP ALL DATA IMMEDIATELY" So luckily I had free space to copy all the data from the bad HDD to another one. Once copied (which copied at full speed) all of my files open and play correctly from the new HDD. So I went to explore this hard drive problem some more and tried using window's built in error checking program which just wouldn't run for that particular hard drive. I also tried reformatting, but after 24 hours it has only gotten to 2%

Anyone got any advice for me? Is the HDD shot? Or was it just a simple error that can be fixed with a reformat? I'm assuming there is no physical damage to the drive since I was able to copy all the data on it to a new source.

I would agree that HD is "most likely" on it's last legs. The OS has a number of spare sectors it can transfer data to when it discovers a problem. If the problem area is small enough, it can copy all the details but even those sectors will probably start experiencing an error. If you ever get to the point in a recovery where you can get most (but not all) the bad data and/or can't get ANYTHING off a failed HD, you can put that failing HD in a freezer overnight. Pop it in the system (quickly) and run it for about 5 minutes before it will fail again (which hopefully gives you enough time to get in and get the data before the head start bouncing off the platter again).

ndabunka

09-20-08, 04:37 PM

The 24p issue is mostly about the video card, not the player. PDVD and TMT behave the same on everything I've seen so far, as it relates to 24p.

You don't see it either because your monitor is just too small, or you don't really care about it (which is okay).

AbMag - I am sorry but I don't understand your reply. What are you referring to when you say "You don't see "IT"? In the reference post, the "IT" was the "studder/judder" that I did not see in my system (but you had seen it in yours). I DO see the correct 24p settings in PowerDVD and my original question was "Is there a 3rd-party application capable of VERIFYING that 24p is being delivered to the screen" as my system is VERY basic (single-core AMD and 3650).

Others on this forum have now directed me to a 3rd-party application that provides the verification I was seeking so I am good now...
http://www.entechtaiwan.com/util/ps.shtm

tsteves

09-20-08, 07:12 PM

ndabunka
put that failing HD in a freezer overnight
I can say the freezer method has worked for me once or twice, but not always. You do need to be sure to use a good freezer bag that does not let any moisture in. Get all of the air you can out of the bag before putting it in there.

Chris Rein

09-20-08, 08:54 PM

jmasterman

09-20-08, 10:44 PM

renethx,
Have you seen this card? It is a passive 4850.
Think it will fit in an Antec 2480?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125237

renethx

09-21-08, 12:39 AM

Well, I give up. I've tried every single combo I can think of to try and boot off the USB Flash Drive and nothing. I even went out and bought another new, different brand, USB Flash drive and no dice. Keep getting the same media message BS as I outlined above. You can see the "floppy" as it says in the QFlash, and can flash from it, but you can't boot from it.

renethx, I would recommend taking the Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H off the server list as it will not boot from USB flash drive and is a big deal killer for those wanting a headless unit without having to have a DVD drive.

Unless you have some other suggestions? I'll have to make up some excuse for Newegg to take it back without me taking the hit on the restock fee. :(
Looks like the mb has a boot problem from a USB flash drive. :o

Edited

I tested two USB flash drives. BIOS didn't recognize one drive in BIOS (Windows recognizes it fine). BIOS recognized the other drive (A-DATA PD14 4GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211168)) and the system booted from the drive fine. See the picture below:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=120844&stc=1&d=1222594593 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=120843&stc=1&d=1222594593)

It seems that the mb does not like some USB flash drives.

AVMonk

09-21-08, 01:04 AM

I'm considering Gigabyte's 780g/790gx motherboard selection. Is there a reason why the Gigabyte didn't include DTS Connect or Dolby Home Theater support in the GA-MA78G-S3H ?

renethx

09-21-08, 01:56 AM

renethx,
Have you seen this card? It is a passive 4850.
Think it will fit in an Antec 2480?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125237
Yes. A possible problem of this card is heat. HD 4850 emits 50W-100W at BD playback and gaming. So I am not sure a passive cooling is enough in a HTPC case.

renethx

09-21-08, 02:22 AM

I'm considering Gigabyte's 780g/790gx motherboard selection. Is there a reason why the Gigabyte didn't include DTS Connect or Dolby Home Theater support in the GA-MA78G-S3H ?
Perhaps to save money. As PowerDVD includes DD and DTS encoders and Dolby Pro Logic IIx and TMT includes a DTS encoder (and DTS NEO:6), and more and more people will use multichannel LPCM with cheaper HDMI AVR, I think these features are becoming less important.

jmrexhau

09-21-08, 08:51 AM

Perhaps in my first post, I did not impress upon the fact that I need help.

My HVR-2250 is in my GA-MA78GPM-DS2H running Vista Ultimate 32 bit version. Last night I was able to record a TV show in HD, I watched it this morning, but I have been unable to watch live TV without my computer restarting. Help, I need somebody, help, not just anybody, help, you know I need someone, help.

renethx

09-21-08, 09:40 AM

My HVR-2250 is in my GA-MA78GPM-DS2H running Vista Ultimate 32 bit version. Last night I was able to record a TV show in HD, I watched it this morning, but I have been unable to watch live TV without my computer restarting. Help, I need somebody, help, not just anybody, help, you know I need someone, help.
Did you post the question at The Official Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H RS780 mATX Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=992503)? The two mbs are basically identical except for SidePort memory and somebody there could help you.

honeybrain

09-21-08, 12:40 PM

I am looking at Page 85
20TB (21 HDD) System

The second system is a 21 HDD system in a server chassis.

System
Case: NORCO PRC-4020 4U Rackmount Chassis (20 x 3.25″ hot-swappable bay and 1 x 3.5″ internal bay), $290.
PSU: Antec Quattro 850 TPQ-850 850W, $140.
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 5000+ ADO5000DOBOX 2.6GHz Socket AM2, $60.
CPU Cooler: Stock Cooler, $0.
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $44.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H AMD 780G chipset ATX (6 SATA), $86 (this mb has a boot problem from a USB flash drive). An alternative is BIOSTAR TA790GX A2+, $100. Another alternative is Foxconn A7DA-S, $125 (supports IEEE 1394).
Graphics: Radeon HD 3200 (integrated in the motherboard chipset), $0.
HBA I: Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 8-port SATA Controller PCI-X Card, $95.
HBA II: Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 8-port SATA Controller PCI-X Card, $95.
HDD: Western Digital WD800JD 80GB SATA, $30.
Total Cost: $850 (storage drives are not included)

Which DAS are you referring to, page 1 or page 85?

Building a 20TB DAS costs nearly the same as building a 20TB server (16-port RAID card = $430; 4-port card+4xPM=$370-$510 vs. CPU+mb+RAM+controller=$400). Then I would build a server (as I can place it at a different place).

WHS works with an AMD system. (Do you find any problem with AMD processor or something else?)

I am trying to replace some off existing parts from my HTPC and use it for this WHS Server, that is the reason i was looking for Intel Platform. I have Asus P5E-VM HDMI MB, wanna replace with G45 or P45. Also the processor. Rest stays same in the HTPC and will buy new items for Server.

Please suggest all the required components once again for WHS platform with Intel. I am going to use WHS RAID, and no hardware RAID for this server.

Appreciated

renethx

09-21-08, 05:13 PM

I am trying to replace some off existing parts from my HTPC and use it for this WHS Server, that is the reason i was looking for Intel Platform. I have Asus P5E-VM HDMI MB, wanna replace with G45 or P45. Also the processor. Rest stays same in the HTPC and will buy new items for Server.

Please suggest all the required components once again for WHS platform with Intel. I am going to use WHS RAID, and no hardware RAID for this server.
The basic requirements of mb for my 20TB server configuration are:

- onboard video (or add a cheap graphics card)
- 6 SATA ports
- two PCI slots (for 16 SATA ports by two Supermicro cards)

Unfortunately P5E-VM HDMI does not meet the last condition. There is no 8-port SATA PCIe x1 controller as cheap as the Supermicro. For example, HightPoint RocketRAID 2320 is a 8-port SATA controller, but its interface is PCIe x4 (if you insert it in the PCIe x16, you can't use the onboard video because of Intel IGD's restriction) and it's pricey ($245).

Just sell your P5E-VM HDMI (the current average sold price at eBay is ~$80) and buy a new mb. It's hard to find a mb for the Intel platform satisfying all three conditions. The two year old model Intel DG965OT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121080) is a good one. You have to use an older processor of FSB 1066/800MHz, however. You'd better go with the AMD platform as in my recommendation. It's much easier to find a good mb and AMD processor is cheap.