Renethx: What's the main differences for purely HTPC use if I buy a 780G board vs adding a Radeon 4x50 card to my Asus M2N-E? More specially, I am trying to keep my HTPC low-powered, which one is lower powered? And is the performance and quality difference noticeably significant on my HDTV? Thanks!
- HD 4xxx supports 7.1 LPCM over HDMI, while 780G stereo LPCM.
- HD 4350 and 780G+Athlon are weak in post-processing.
- HD 4550 and higher, and 780G+Phenom are good in post-processing.
- M2N-E+Athlon+graphics card consumes roughly 10W-20W more power than 780G+Athlon+onboard video at idle and video playback.
- M2N-E+Athlon+graphics card consumes roughly the same power as 780G+Phenom+onboard video at idle and video playback.

My recommendation is add HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161252) to M2N-E. This is the quickest way to get the best video/audio available today with reasonably low power consumption.

- HD 4xxx supports 7.1 LPCM over HDMI, while 780G stereo LPCM.
- HD 4350 and 780G+Athlon are weak in post-processing.
- HD 4550 and higher, and 780G+Phenom are good in post-processing.
- M2N-E+Athlon+graphics card consumes roughly 10W-20W more power than 780G+Athlon+onboard video at idle and video playback.
- M2N-E+Athlon+graphics card consumes roughly the same power as 780G+Phenom+onboard video at idle and video playback.

My recommendation is add HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161252) to M2N-E. This is the quickest way to get the best video/audio available today with reasonably low power consumption.


Thanks, Renethx.

I am curious though, why did you not suggest the cheaper Radeon 4350?
I also noticed that none of the current 4670 are fanless?

Thanks, Renethx.

I am curious though, why did you not suggest the cheaper Radeon 4350?
I also noticed that none of the current 4670 are fanless?
HD 4350 is a perfect solution for BD+7.1 audio and recommended for this purpose.

First post as 'm reading my way through this thread and other very interesting threads. great community you have here.

I am about to build my first HTPC (not my first DIY pc) after a year experience with the Popcorn Hour A100. Main purpose of the HTPC is playing my lossless music collection (about 2000 CD's) and watching 720p and 1080p MKV content (and some SD content). I've added a BR Disk player to the setup to replace my standalone DVD player and to be able to watch BD's. This last one is not one of the main purposes (yet), just added value.

I hope you can give a little feedback on the setup before all parts are ordered.

Case: OrigenAE S10V Black
MoBo: Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
CPU: AMD Phenom X3 8750
CPU Cooler: Scythe Shuriken
PSU: Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 450W
DDR: 2x Kingston ValueRAM 1GB DDR2-1066 CAS7
HDD: 2x WD Caviar RE2-GP 1TB
ODD: Sony NEC Optiarc BC-5600S
TV: Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV DVB-C with Alphacrypt Multicrypt CI Module
OS: Vista Home Premium SP1 MCE

Connected through HDMI to:
Marantz SR6001 Black A\V and
Mordaunt Short Genie 5.1 speakers

AV Receiver connected through HDMI to my Panasonic PV70F

For those who'd like to know why I'm leaving the Popcorn Hour? It is just not it. Stereo playback of my lossless music collection is just dramatic. Sound is bad and browsing through your collection is a slow pain in the a**. Just had to many issues with playback of HD files (also due to bad coding). I just wanted something that does a bit more for me. And I like the process of DIY :D

Thanks in advance, I'm back to reading ;)

I am about to build my first HTPC (not my first DIY pc) after a year experience with the Popcorn Hour A100. Main purpose of the HTPC is playing my lossless music collection (about 2000 CD's) and watching 720p and 1080p MKV content (and some SD content). I've added a BR Disk player to the setup to replace my standalone DVD player and to be able to watch BD's. This last one is not one of the main purposes (yet), just added value.

I hope you can give a little feedback on the setup before all parts are ordered.

Case: OrigenAE S10V Black
MoBo: Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
CPU: AMD Phenom X3 8750
CPU Cooler: Scythe Shuriken
PSU: Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 450W
DDR: 2x Kingston ValueRAM 1GB DDR2-1066 CAS7
HDD: 2x WD Caviar RE2-GP 1TB
ODD: Sony NEC Optiarc BC-5600S
TV: Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV DVB-C with Alphacrypt Multicrypt CI Module
OS: Vista Home Premium SP1 MCE

Connected through HDMI to:
Marantz SR6001 Black A\V and
Mordaunt Short Genie 5.1 speakers

- The HDMI audio of the 780G chipset is limited to stereo LPCM (and DD/DTS bitstream) and does not support bit-perfect (48kHz only). If these matter for you, add a Radeon HD 4550 card.

- DDR2-1066 is overkill. DDR2-800 is enough.

Is there any one who uses the suggested graphics card on page 85, the Radeon HD 4850 who also uses the projector Panasonic PT AE-2000E?

I cant get my PJ to accept the DVI-HDMI output of my HTPC wich I built after the suggestions in this thread.

(Have tried different resolutions and timings that the PJ should accept, but still get nothig! Have also checked that both cable and PJ works with other sources.)

Any help is welcome!:o

I couldn't understand why Renethix recommended the Radeon 4670 on an Intel/Intel midrange system until I found this today: ATI vs. NVIDIA Once Again: 4670 vs 9500 GT & 9600 GSO (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3405&p=7). The 4670 simply blows away the 9500GT in performance and is very low power.

Unfortunately I already ordered the 9500GT on Monday - my outdated slug of a PC died on Friday and I spent the weekend crash course researching, reading every post from the recent recommendations (p. 43?) to present. I thought it strange to recommend an (AMD) ATI card with Intel/Intel and preferred nVidia because of the lack of Linux driver support with ATI. I couldn't find any comparisons of the 4670 on Tom's hardware and figured it might have been an outdated card, however, found out it's the opposite - a card just released last month. I figured the 9500GT was a fairly close equivalent of the 4670 and while LPCM, important because it's a lossless compression, I hadn't heard of until this thread, and don't think it's used on regular DVDs (DD5.1) or HDTV (DD5.1). My needs were a general purpose and software development computer that could also function as a front end for viewing HDTV on a 2nd monitor (most likely to catch the weather and news). The HDTV content would either be streamed from my HDHomerun or from my Myth HTPC (mainly for HDTV timeshifting). I doubt there will be extended viewing on this PC in my bedroom office - I'll go sit down in the living room to watch an entire show, football game, or the occasional DVD from my HTPC. The other consideration was to be able to listen to and burn audio CDs. Hopefully I'm not going to miss out on anything by going with the 9500GT rather than the 4670. Hell, the 9500GT is already way superior to the G35 integrated video in my HTPC. My only other concern was configuring a relatively silent and cool and lower power consuming PC and looked at the silent 8600GT Silent which might have worked in my Antec P182 with 3 120cm fans?

First post as 'm reading my way through this thread and other very interesting threads. great community you have here.

I am about to build my first HTPC (not my first DIY pc) after a year experience with the Popcorn Hour A100. Main purpose of the HTPC is playing my lossless music collection (about 2000 CD's) and watching 720p and 1080p MKV content (and some SD content). I've added a BR Disk player to the setup to replace my standalone DVD player and to be able to watch BD's. This last one is not one of the main purposes (yet), just added value.

I hope you can give a little feedback on the setup before all parts are ordered.

Case: OrigenAE S10V Black
MoBo: Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H
CPU: AMD Phenom X3 8750
CPU Cooler: Scythe Shuriken
PSU: Be Quiet Dark Power Pro 450W
DDR: 2x Kingston ValueRAM 1GB DDR2-1066 CAS7
HDD: 2x WD Caviar RE2-GP 1TB
ODD: Sony NEC Optiarc BC-5600S
TV: Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV DVB-C with Alphacrypt Multicrypt CI Module
OS: Vista Home Premium SP1 MCE

Connected through HDMI to:
Marantz SR6001 Black A\V and
Mordaunt Short Genie 5.1 speakers

AV Receiver connected through HDMI to my Panasonic PV70F

For those who'd like to know why I'm leaving the Popcorn Hour? It is just not it. Stereo playback of my lossless music collection is just dramatic. Sound is bad and browsing through your collection is a slow pain in the a**. Just had to many issues with playback of HD files (also due to bad coding). I just wanted something that does a bit more for me. And I like the process of DIY :D

Thanks in advance, I'm back to reading ;)

roma, where are you sourcing the ODD Optiarc BC-5600S? I have the S10V (I love it by the way) and I think in a couple of months I might be in the market for a BD slot loader, curious where you found this... looks like a nice setup by the way, enjoy!

Hi guys,

I've just built a nice htpc with the GA-MA78GM-S2H for a friend.

Problem is, the tv it will connect to only has S-Video and RCA inputs.

Yeah, I f@cked up :p

What can I do now?

I guess my choices are:

-Buy an adapter (VGA to S-Video)
-Buy a video card with a S-Video outpout (which one?)
-Buy another motherboard

Please advise (an online retailer would be great too)

And thanks a lot!

I've just built a nice htpc with the GA-MA78GM-S2H for a friend.

Problem is, the tv it will connect to only has S-Video and RCA inputs.

Yeah, I f@cked up :p

What can I do now?

I guess my choices are:

-Buy an adapter (VGA to S-Video)
-Buy a video card with a S-Video outpout (which one?)
-Buy another motherboard
The cheapest and best way is buy a video card. Sapphire HD 4550 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102799) (a S-video cable is not included). Or HD 3450 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A36593) (a lot cheaper; no 7.1 LPCM, low post-processing performance)

Thank you so much for all you've done!

Is there any reason not to just wait a little while longer for more HD 4550 models (like fanless, HDMI output ones) to come out? I just pulled the ripcord on an order for of a 780G + 4850e system and plan to add one once something better (and hopefully cheaper) than the Sapphire HD 4550 comes out. Just a few more weeks, right ... or is there something I should know?

Is there any reason not to just wait a little while longer for more HD 4550 models (like fanless, HDMI output ones) to come out? I just pulled the ripcord on an order for of a 780G + 4850e system and plan to add one once something better (and hopefully cheaper) than the Sapphire HD 4550 comes out. Just a few more weeks, right ... or is there something I should know?
A fanless HD 4550 card may be eventually released, but I don't know when.

roma, where are you sourcing the ODD Optiarc BC-5600S? I have the S10V (I love it by the way) and I think in a couple of months I might be in the market for a BD slot loader, curious where you found this... looks like a nice setup by the way, enjoy!

renethx, thanks for your reply. I could get the 1066 memory for a good price. Maybe it is overkill, but I guess it couldn't hurt. It is on the MoBo's rev. 1.1 supported memory list.

excise I found the BD player in Germany. At Alternate.de. It isn't cheap, around $ 380,00 including posting and package within Europe. I believe it's the version for Dell OEM and Packard Bell OEM.

Good to hear you like the S10V. I'm still waiting for some final parts so have to be a bit patient before I can enjoy it.

Just built my computer a couple of days ago! Thanks for the guide renethx!

At first the fans were extremely noisy. I determined that the BTF90 was the major factor and set it to "Silent" in the BIOS. Its much quieter now and the CPU temp has not climbed past 90 degrees Fahrenheit since.

The computer is still louder than I would like, however, and I think the cause is the fan on my ASUS HD4670 graphics card. Is there a way for me to adjust its fan settings?


Here's my full setup:

Motherboard: ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90 92mm Silent UFO CPU Cooler
Video Card: ASUS EAH4670/DI/512M/A Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
DVD Drive: LG 20X DVD±R DVD Burner
Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-520HX 520W
Memory: CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800
Operating System: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32-bit
Case: Zalman HD160 Plus

Thanks

The computer is still louder than I would like, however, and I think the cause is the fan on my ASUS HD4670 graphics card. Is there a way for me to adjust its fan settings?
Catalyst 8.10 (2008/10) drivers will add manual fan control (http://www.google.com/search?q=catalyst+%228.10%22+manual+fan+control). Another fix is replace the cooler with a third-party cooler (e.g. Zalman; check this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1059559)). Or replace the card with H467QT512P or H467QS512P.

Catalyst 8.10 (2008/10) drivers will add manual fan control (http://www.google.com/search?q=catalyst+%228.10%22+manual+fan+control). Another fix is replace the cooler with a third-party cooler (e.g. Zalman; check this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1059559)). Or replace the card with H467QT512P or H467QS512P.

I just simply take the stock fan and use the heatsink.Then I add a silent 80mm case fan to cool the heatsink. It works well.

Hi, I'm about to buy this wireless keyboard as suggested from the guide:

Adesso 2.4 GHz RF Wireless Mini Keyboard w/Optical Trackball WKB3000UB, $70

I was just wondering if I can wake my computer up from suspend mode with it. I searched google but couldn't find much. Thanks for any help.

Here's what my htpc's like:
case - Antec minuet 350
mobo - DG45ID
cpu - e7200
memory - Kingston 4gig
os - Vista ultimate sp1 x64
software - XBMC

I was just wondering if I can wake my computer up from suspend mode with it. I searched google but couldn't find much.
You can wake the system from the S3 state by any USB device.

Geez, I've read and read, but can't seem to wrap my mind around all the issues (especially wrt HD audio)...

I'm looking to build an inexpensive HD HTPC for the (almost sole) purpose of watching Blu-Ray movies (and up-converted DVDs). I'd like to rip the few BDs I own to my media server (I'll be ripping more DVDs, too) so I can watch them all on demand, but I don't mind if ripping BDs takes a while.

So, here's what I already have...
Antec 430 case
Win XP (Vista fanboys - please don't bother.)
J. River Media Center (strongly preferred over XP or Vista MCE)
PowerDVD Ultra 8
2 x 300GB PATA drives
And here are the things I've decided on for sure...
LG GGC-H20L BR drive
Intel E5200 CPU

The motherboard and video card is where it breaks down, though...
Since Intel has opted to cripple their motherboards (inability to play Blu-Ray) under XP, a G45 board is out. So the Abit I-N73HD is looking pretty good, I guess.

The questions I have are...

Will *anything* get me TrueHD/DTS-HD? I won't need it right away, but I do want the option later. I don't care if it's over HDMI, though - running the extra S/PDIF cable is not a big deal to me.
Is the HD 4670 the best video card for me? Or will the HD 4350 do?
Are there any issues with the GeForce 7100 chipset?
Are there any known (XP) driver issues that would (be the only thing to) sway me toward Vista?

Many thanks for your time and consideration.

The questions I have are...

Will *anything* get me TrueHD/DTS-HD? I won't need it right away, but I do want the option later. I don't care if it's over HDMI, though - running the extra S/PDIF cable is not a big deal to me.
Is the HD 4670 the best video card for me? Or will the HD 4350 do?
Are there any issues with the GeForce 7100 chipset?
Are there any known (XP) driver issues that would (be the only thing to) sway me toward Vista?

Many thanks for your time and consideration.
There is no solution for TrueHD/DTS-HD bitstream yet (at least in US). 7.1 LPCM is the best solution right now. The upcoming (Q4 2008?) ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 and Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 are expected to support it.

HD 4350 supports 7.1 LPCM, but is slightly weak in post-processing. HD 4550 is very good in this respect. Or wait for GeForce 9300/9400 chipset motherboards (released on October 15). AMD's graphics HD 4550 or higher is supposed to support "Enhanced DVD upscale" but it seems that the driver is not ready yet.

GeForce 7100 or Intel G31/G33/G43 chipset with HD 4350/4550, or the upcoming GeForce 9300/9400 chipset with integrated graphics is a good choice for BD+7.1 LPCM.

Unlike Intel, AMD and NVIDIA graphics work fine under XP (AFAIK).

There is no solution for TrueHD/DTS-HD bitstream yet (at least in US). 7.1 LPCM is the best solution right now. The upcoming (Q4 2008?) ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 and Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 are expected to support it.

HD 4350 supports 7.1 LPCM, but is slightly weak in post-processing. HD 4550 is very good in this respect. Or wait for GeForce 9300/9400 chipset motherboards (released on October 15). AMD's graphics HD 4550 or higher is supposed to support "Enhanced DVD upscale" but it seems that the driver is not ready yet.

GeForce 7100 or Intel G31/G33/G43 chipset with HD 4350/4550, or the upcoming GeForce 9300/9400 chipset with integrated graphics is a good choice for BD+7.1 LPCM.

Unlike Intel, AMD and NVIDIA graphics work fine under XP (AFAIK).Thanks, renethx. (You know, some day, I fully expect the Pope to make you the Patron Saint of HTPC Builders!)

I don't understand what "LPCM" means... Why is it inferior to "bitstream"? (Or is it just another way of saying (compressed) DD/DTS?)

Also, (not sure how closely you follow this stuff, but) any idea whether those 9x00 mobos will support PATA? (If they're going to drop it and only support SATA, there'd be no point in me waiting.)

I don't understand what "LPCM" means... Why is it inferior to "bitstream"? (Or is it just another way of saying (compressed) DD/DTS?)

Also, (not sure how closely you follow this stuff, but) any idea whether those 9x00 mobos will support PATA? (If they're going to drop it and only support SATA, there'd be no point in me waiting.)
LPCM is a raw, uncompressed audio format. Today's PC lacks the support for TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bitstream because of the lack of PAP and a proper Windows API. So the software player decodes them into LPCM and send it over HDMI. Compressed TrueHD/DTS-HD MA and uncompressed LPCM decoded from them are essentially identical. However LPCM is further downsampled to 16bit/48kHz by the software player (please read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13872683#post13872683) to see why). But then it would be hard for most people to tell the difference between 24bit/48kHz and 16bit/48kHz.

GeForce 9300/9400 mbs support PATA drives natively.

I just finished assembling my new PC. Last thing I put in was the video card. It's an Asus 9500GT and came with an S/PDIF cable. If I was to use this as an HTPC and connect digital coax cable from the MB S/PDIF coax output to my DD 5.1 audio receiver and connect video to my HDTV monitor's DVI input (no HDMI - it's 5 years old), then do I not want to hook up the video card's S/PDIF cable? Will hooking up the video card S/PDIF cable bypass the coax S/PDIF output on the motherboard?

If I was to use this as an HTPC and connect digital coax cable from the MB S/PDIF coax output to my DD 5.1 audio receiver and connect video to my HDTV monitor's DVI input (no HDMI - it's 5 years old), then do I not want to hook up the video card's S/PDIF cable? Will hooking up the video card S/PDIF cable bypass the coax S/PDIF output on the motherboard?
No, you don't have to connect the motherboard internal S/PDIF connector to the card' S/PDIF connector by the supplied cable. Doing so means the singnal from the video card carries both video and audio (from the mb's audio codec), but that's useless unless you connect the video card to a receiver supporting HDMI.

Ya' know, I'm really surprised by Antec with there Fusion Remote Max case. They only have one 5.25 " external bay which I can understand since so many don't have the need for two (albeit I do) but no 3.5" bay for a card reader or a floppy? That seems so obvious to me. At that price I would think they would include the power supply as well. I mean the great Sonata case sells for $79 and it is a great case and it includes he power supply.

Oh well, Silverstone is probably going to get my business this time with the LC20M Lascala.

Seems like they are going away from 3.5" external slots. My NSK2480 only has 2 5.25" slots, and my P182 has 4 5.25" slots, but only 1 3.5" slot. I guess they figure the floppy is dead (USB drives) and most people only use DVD/CD drives. I have a 3.5" Zip drive that I pulled out of an old PC to put in my P182 along with my floppy drive. Luckily, it had a 5.25" bracket to fit in the larger slot. I'm not impressed with the P182 drive rail system - my DVD drive and floppy drive both aren't flush with the bezel and protrude out no matter how I adjust the rails.

I'm not impressed with the P182 drive rail system - my DVD drive and floppy drive both aren't flush with the bezel and protrude out no matter how I adjust the rails.
Haven't had such problems with my P182 and Sony NEC Optiarc AD-7190A.

So the software player decodes them into LPCM and send it over HDMI. Compressed TrueHD/DTS-HD MA and uncompressed LPCM decoded from them are essentially identical. However LPCM is further downsampled to 16bit/48kHz by the software playerSo, when my receiver sees this LPCM stream, will it recognize it as TrueHD or DTS-HD and handle it properly? (I realize you don't know what receiver I have or will have, but in general...)

Ya' know, I'm really surprised by Antec with there Fusion Remote Max case. They only have one 5.25 " external bay which I can understand since so many don't have the need for two (albeit I do) but no 3.5" bay for a card reader or a floppy? That seems so obvious to me. At that price I would think they would include the power supply as well. I mean the great Sonata case sells for $79 and it is a great case and it includes he power supply.

Oh well, Silverstone is probably going to get my business this time with the LC20M Lascala.

There's an entire separate thread on HTPC cases I have been recently responding to. I also need 2 5.25" drives and Ahanix D.vine D4 is a fairly nice black case WITH two drive, VFD (don't think it has a remote) for $129 + $20 for shipping. It also doesn't come with the PS but that's $50 cheaper than the LC20M and it looks like similar quality. Two downsides though, the VFD is a parallel interface (while others are all now USB) and the dual fans that come with it are only 60mm (whereas the LC20M is 120mms). I have found the LC20M for as low as $179+shipping. I almost made the mistake of ordering the $139 LC20B form Newegg but then realized that model (no M) doesn't come with the VFD, IR nor the Remote. I wan the VFD and IR but the remote might be a paperweight in my design since all controls are handled via IP (rather than IR)

Just a word of caution about the Ahanix case: I have one and have had significant problems with cooling it even though I only have one sata 750GB hard drive, the LG blu-ray/HD-DVD drive, and a graphics card. I had to add a northbridge cooler as well as several other fans to keep it ventilated. Now, granted, it is in an enclosed custom-built media case with glass doors; still, it has exhaust fans to ventilate the case.

Thanks ndabunka. I couldn't find the post you were referring to but that is probably OK. I did really like the Ahanix product line. Personally, I think they look better than the Silverstone line. In my case the big gotcha with the Silverstone is that I need an IR remote to turn the PC on (cold boot). By the way, I do think the D4 comes with a power supply, at least that is what Ahanix's web page states.

Take care.
JP

The motherboard and video card is where it breaks down, though...
Since Intel has opted to cripple their motherboards (inability to play Blu-Ray) under XP, a G45 board is out. So the Abit I-N73HD is looking pretty good, I guess.

I dont understand this, I've seen some reference to it but dont understand. If I get a G45 mobo (like asus) along with a blue ray drive and power dvd 8...I wont be able to play blue ray disks? Why not? Theres something built into these mobo's that actually forbid BR from playing? Regardless of the software used?

Renethx,

After a VERY LONG WAIT ... will any mATX based boards be available soon? Will they be better or worse than the G45?

So, when my receiver sees this LPCM stream, will it recognize it as TrueHD or DTS-HD and handle it properly? (I realize you don't know what receiver I have or will have, but in general...)
No. TrueHD/DTS-HD MA is just the name of a compression scheme (to save disc space for audio). Once decompressed to LPCM, it is not TrueHD/DTS-HD MA any longer.

I dont understand this, I've seen some reference to it but dont understand. If I get a G45 mobo (like asus) along with a blue ray drive and power dvd 8...I wont be able to play blue ray disks? Why not? Theres something built into these mobo's that actually forbid BR from playing? Regardless of the software used?
You can't play BD with G45+XP+a commercial player because the driver does not support it.

Renethx,

After a VERY LONG WAIT ... will any mATX based boards be available soon? Will they be better or worse than the G45?
MCP7A is twice better than G45 in gaming. Wait for reviews on October 15th (hopefully no more delay). ;)

You can't play BD with G45+XP+a commercial player because the driver does not support it.

Clarification - Yes, he can play BD with that setup. The ONLY thing he can't do is the audio in the enhanced mode, right? He can still get LPCM through non-HDMI interfaces with the traditional 5.1 channels, right? It's not like a G45 can't play ANY BD, is it?

Thanks ndabunka. I couldn't find the post you were referring to but that is probably OK. I did really like the Ahanix product line. Personally, I think they look better than the Silverstone line. In my case the big gotcha with the Silverstone is that I need an IR remote to turn the PC on (cold boot). By the way, I do think the D4 comes with a power supply, at least that is what Ahanix's web page states.

Take care.
JP

Here's the link to the AVS "Cases only" thread... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14835516&highlight=#post14835516
Look for the reference/link to the "French site" and go there. Lot's of choices and additional links. Not many prices but you do get to see the numerous variations and that thread has direct links to the mfg's sites for their products and those mfg sites are all in english

Here's the link to the Ahanix D4 on fleebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=160285373518&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=006
The seller has 6 of them left and they don't appear to be moving too quickly. Although many of the reviews do list the PS as being included (a 350w), this lot obviously does not have them in there and it is discounted an appropriate amount for that omission. Most would want a slightly more powerful PS anyway these days (430+) so this may not be a bad thing that it's not in that particular auction. The cooling on those units has been a weak point on nearly every review I have seen and that is one of the reasons I have (pretty much) eliminated it form my choices as well but others have replaced the small 60mm's with larger units and done OK. I just don't want to "fiddle" that much with whatever I do end up getting so I've crossed the D4 off my list.

Clarification - Yes, he can play BD with that setup. The ONLY thing he can't do is the audio in the enhanced mode, right? He can still get LPCM through non-HDMI interfaces with the traditional 5.1 channels, right? It's not like a G45 can't play ANY BD...
Personally I haven't tested G45 under Windows XP. My information is based on Bjur's and archibael (an Intel worker)'s posts (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14587429#post14587429).

Intel doesn't officially support Blu-ray on XP. It's been that way since G33/G35.

No. TrueHD/DTS-HD MA is just the name of a compression scheme (to save disc space for audio). Once decompressed to LPCM, it is not TrueHD/DTS-HD MA any longer.What?! I thought the whole point of TrueHD and DTS-HD were that they are UNcompressed!

OK, so if a receiver won't recognize the TrueHD/DTS-HD encoding, what then will it do? Will it still somehow handle the 7.1 correctly, such that I'll essentially get the same net effect? Or will it mangle it or just plain choke?

I'm building my first HTPC. I used the Intel/Nvidia mid-range suggestions as a guide to my purchases. My motherboard is an Abit I-N73HD (with an HDMI out + VGA) and my graphics card is an ASUS EN8600GT Silent (dual DVI + S-Video).

Okay, here's my question. When hooking up my TV (a Samsung LNT4661), should I plug direct into the HDMI on the motherboard or use a DVI/HDMI converter and use my ASUS card?

If the answer is "use the mobo's HDMI", then why is a separate graphics card recommended?

Thanks!

What?! I thought the whole point of TrueHD and DTS-HD were that they are UNcompressed!

OK, so if a receiver won't recognize the TrueHD/DTS-HD encoding, what then will it do? Will it still somehow handle the 7.1 correctly, such that I'll essentially get the same net effect? Or will it mangle it or just plain choke?
The point of TrueHD/DTS-HD MA is lossless compressed. DD/DTS is lossy compressed. LPCM is uncompressed (so lossless).

Your receiver gets LPCM, then sends it to the sound processor. If your receiver gets TrueHD/DTS-HD MA, then first sends it to the decoder to decode it to LPCM, then sends LPCM to the processor (or decode is done by the processor itself; don't ask me details :)). So basically the only difference is where decode is done, in PC or in AVR, apart from downsampling to 16-bit in PC due to the lack of PAP in the open environement of PC. But it would be difficult to tell the difference between 16-bit and a higher bit depth for most people. On the other hand the difference between 16-bit/48kHz LPCM and DD/DTS (lossless vs lossy) is clear for those who have proper AVR/speakers/ears.

I'm building my first HTPC. I used the Intel/Nvidia mid-range suggestions as a guide to my purchases. My motherboard is an Abit I-N73HD (with an HDMI out + VGA) and my graphics card is an ASUS EN8600GT Silent (dual DVI + S-Video).

Okay, here's my question. When hooking up my TV (a Samsung LNT4661), should I plug direct into the HDMI on the motherboard or use a DVI/HDMI converter and use my ASUS card?

If the answer is "use the mobo's HDMI", then why is a separate graphics card recommended?
You should connect the graphics card's HDMI (via a dongle) to the display. (Otherwise you will waste your 8600 GT. :))

Thanks again, renethx. I think I've just about got my brain wrapped around this. I just have one (I hope) last question...
So the software player decodes them into LPCM and send it over HDMI.Is the LPCM only sent over HDMI?

My current receiver doesn't have TrueHD or DTS-HD, but I'm very happy with it, so I'm in no hurry to upgrade it. It sounds like - even though it doesn't have TrueHD decoding - I'll still reap the benefits because the TrueHD will be decoded on the HTPC. BUT... my receiver also doesn't do HDMI switching. In general, this is no big deal to me. I find that most sources require different picture settings, so I always run all video to the projector, then use separate optical audio cables to the receiver.

Will my strategy break down in this case? Or will the LPCM be sent over S/PDIF, too?

Is the LPCM only sent over HDMI?
Yes if you mean 'multichannel' LPCM. S/PDIF supports only stereo LPCM.

You could send video to the display via DVI or HDMI and send video (extended desktop or clone mode) and multichannel LPCM to the receiver via HDMI.

You should connect the graphics card's HDMI (via a dongle) to the display. (Otherwise you will waste your 8600 GT. :))

Thanks for answering...when you say "via a dongle", do you mean using a DVI/HDMI adapter with my 8600GT?

Thanks for answering...when you say "via a dongle", do you mean using a DVI/HDMI adapter with my 8600GT?
Yes.

DonnyB -

I found this article helpfull in understanding the impact of PAP and HD sound on a htpc;

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411


Thanks again, renethx. I think I've just about got my brain wrapped around this. I just have one (I hope) last question...
Is the LPCM only sent over HDMI?

My current receiver doesn't have TrueHD or DTS-HD, but I'm very happy with it, so I'm in no hurry to upgrade it. It sounds like - even though it doesn't have TrueHD decoding - I'll still reap the benefits because the TrueHD will be decoded on the HTPC. BUT... my receiver also doesn't do HDMI switching. In general, this is no big deal to me. I find that most sources require different picture settings, so I always run all video to the projector, then use separate optical audio cables to the receiver.

Will my strategy break down in this case? Or will the LPCM be sent over S/PDIF, too?

MCP7A is twice better than G45 in gaming. Wait for reviews on October 15th (hopefully no more delay). ;)

Thanks, what other "anticipated" benefits does the MCP7A bring to HTPC builds?

Thanks, what other "anticipated" benefits does the MCP7A bring to HTPC builds?



Perfect 24p and 7.1 LPCM over HDMI, the first IGP doing this for Intel CPU.

i got Phenom 9850BE + 790GX. i installed TV Pack and Mymovies. i do not know why when i try to watched HD movies. The movies freezed when i try to watch it in VMC but doesnot freezed when i use VLC. the movies are on the networked server.

i installed this software:

Splitter
FFDshow

Perfect 24p and 7.1 LPCM over HDMI, the first IGP doing this for Intel CPU.

How soon "should" we see mATX based boards available - are they waiting in the wings after this long delay?

Perfect 24p and 7.1 LPCM over HDMI, the first IGP doing this for Intel CPU.

And just to be clear, that's the hope. There's a good chance, as the AMD version is the only one with perfect 24p, but everything else has failed at 24p, so who knows. I'll be getting one right away, but if you really care about 24p, you might want to wait until early reviews are in.

you might want to wait until early reviews are in.
Professional reviewers never do 24p (they are busy in testing 3D performance in PC monitors). So somebody else has to do that. Maybe you? :)

Professional reviewers never do 24p (they are busy in testing 3D performance in PC monitors). So somebody else has to do that. Maybe you? :)

Yes, by early reviews, I meant someone like me and you! I'll have an update the day I get it.

Rene - Speaking of that... any recommendations on a slimline case that uses a regular power supply, that can house the 9300/9400? I'd like it as short as possible in terms of height, but if it had one of those sideways PCIE adapters, that would be nice, too.

any recommendations on a slimline case that uses a regular power supply, that can house the 9300/9400? I'd like it as short as possible in terms of height, but if it had one of those sideways PCIE adapters, that would be nice, too.
- Lian Li PC-C37B MUSE; four low-profile expansion slots, full ATX PSU.
- Lian Li PC-C36B MUSE; two full size expansion slots, a 300W TFX PSU bundled.
- OrigenAE S10V; four low-profile expansion slots, slim DVD only, full ATX PSU.
- Thermaltake Mozart SX; two full size expansion slots (PCIe x16 and PCI), full ATX mb, full ATX PSU.

SilverStone also makes a bunch of Slim HTPC/Desktop (http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_spec.php?pno=lc02&area=usa) cases.

Yes if you mean 'multichannel' LPCM. S/PDIF supports only stereo LPCM.

You could send video to the display via DVI or HDMI and send video (extended desktop or clone mode) and multichannel LPCM to the receiver via HDMI.

Wait, wait, don't tell me...Doesn't a lot of this have more to do with the HDMI standards (The encryption capabilities/lack of contained within HDMI stds) than the audio format itself? LPCM over HDMI is only stereo but non-HDMI LPCM formats remains multi-channel, right? The article referenced is ONLY HDMI, it doesn't outline a "non-HDMI" audio channel. Since the original inquirer was questioning his ability to get multi-channel LPCM from a non-HDMI source (i.e. coax or Toslink), I think that the answer there is "Yes, multi-channel LPCM CAN be sent over those formats", right? I do realize that once those are routed to the HDMI channel that LPCM (at that point) is 2 stereo only but outside the HDMI "package", it remains multichannel, doesn't it? The article doesn't go into any details on that orientation (that I could find).

I know that this statement is almost "blasphemous" to some on here but if you "do not care about audio over HDMI" (as this inquirer does not and as I do not), then the answer to the question may be different, right?

Wait, wait, don't tell me...Doesn't a LOT of this have more to do with the HDMI standards (1.3 & 2.0 and the encryption capabilities/lack of contained within each) than the audio format itself? LPCM over HDMI is only stereo but non-HDMI LPCM formats remains multi-channel, right? The article referenced is ONLY HDMI, it doesn't outline a "non-HDMI" audio channel. Since the original inquirer was questioning his ability to get multi-channel LPCM from a non-HDMI source (i.e. coax or Toslink), I think that the answer there is "Yes, multi-channel LPCM CAN be sent over those formats", right? I do realize that once those are routed to the HDMI channel that LPCM (at that point) is 2 stereo only but outside the HDMI "package", it can remain multichannel, right?

If you "con't care about HDMI" (as this inquirer does not and as I do not), then the question may be different, right?
Not sure what you are asking, the fact is

- HDMI 1.0-1.2: Up to 8 channel LPCM, DD, DTS (available in PC)
- HDMI 1.3: Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bistream in addition to the above (not available in PC yet because of the lack of protected audio path and proper Windows API)
- S/PDIF: stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (available in PC)

Not sure what you are asking, the fact is

- HDMI 1.0-1.2: Up to 8 channel LPCM, DD, DTS (available in PC)
- HDMI 1.3: Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bistream in addition to the above (not available in PC yet because of the lack of protected audio path and Windows API)
- S/PDIF: stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (available in PC)

Since this was a non-HDMI inquiry, the first two lines don't matter so my post would reference only the last line. If S/PDIF channel can ONLY be stereo LPCM, then that is unfortunate. I know that LPCM over the HDMI is only in stereo but had thought that S/PDIF (not over HDMI) could carry multichannel LPCM. I guess i was wrong. This was from a number of years back working with 5.1 channel audio cards on standard PC's...

I know that LPCM over the HDMI is only in stereo
Not sure what you mean. The fact is: If the sound source is stereo, naturally HDMI carries only stereo LPCM (unless you matrix it into surround sounds). But if the source is 5.1 or 7.1, HDMI carries 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM.

This is true for all the current Radeon HD 4xxx cards, GeForce 8200/8300 chipsets, Intel G45 chipset and the upcoming GeForce 9300/9400 chipsets. (GeForce 8200/8300 supports only stereo/7.1 LPCM somehow, 5.1 sounds produce blank rear channels.)

On the other hand, older GPUs (Radeon HD 2xxx/3xxx including the 690G/780G/790GX chipsets and GeForce 7xxx chipsets) support only stereo LPCM through HDMI because of a limitation of the HD audio controller and/or the HDMI transmitter built in the chip.

Not sure what you mean. The fact is: If the sound source is stereo, naturally HDMI carries only stereo LPCM (unless you matrix it into surround sounds). But the source is 5.1 or 7.1, HDMI carries 5.1 or 7.1 LPCM.

This is true for all the current Radeon HD 4xxx cards, GeForce 8200/8300 chipsets, Intel G45 chipset and the upcoming GeForce 9300/9400 chipsets. (GeForce 8200/8300 supports only stereo/7.1 LPCM somehow, 5.1 sounds produce blank rear channels.)

On the other hand, older GPUs (Radeon HD 2xxx/3xxx including the 690G/780G/790GX chipsets and GeForce 7xxx chipsets) support only stereo LPCM through HDMI because of a limitation of the HD audio controller and/or the HDMI transmitter built in the chip.

To clarify this lets remove ALL references to ANY HDMI interfaces and/or HDMI cards, protocols, etc. The poster was asking what non-HDMI can do with the LPCM format. I know you mean well but continuing to reference HDMI formats is counter-productive to this line of inquiry.

Since LPCM doesn't mean 2-channel stereo, it SHOULD be able to carry the multi-channel signals (i.e. source is BD multi-channel...DTS) and therefore be able to be sent to a non-HDMI receiver in that format for decode (by the Audio receiver). See wikipedia for this quote "While two channels (stereo) is the most common format, some can support up to 8 audio channels (7.1 surround)." This statement doesn't have anything to do with HDMI, rather it is about the LPCM format itself, right?

Just for clarity, my interest in this is because I do have a receiver capable of supporting the higher 96kHz/24-bit capabilities (even though it doesn't have HDMI) so naturally, I would like to be able to leverage this native capacity of my receiver. I think the original guy making this inquiry has a similar desire. In short, I currently use AES3 to do this with a standard DVD player to my current receiver (via coax audio) and expect that I should still be able to do the same thing with BD's multi-channel LPCM, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES3

To clarify this lets remove ALL references to ANY HDMI interfaces and/or HDMI cards, protocols, etc. The poster was asking what non-HDMI can do with the LPCM format. I know you mean well but continuing to reference HDMI formats is counter-productive to this line of inquiry.
Forget about the original poster's question. I am continuing discussion just because you seem to misunderstand basic facts about HDMI audio and S/PDIF. Correcting wrong arguments in this thread is part of my duty. :)

Since LPCM doesn't mean 2-channel stereo, it SHOULD be able to carry the multi-channel signals (i.e. source is BD multi-channel...say 5.1) and therefore be able to be sent to a non-HDMI receiver in that format for decode (by the Audio receiver)
A non-HDMI receiver can't receive multichannel LPCM. Multichannel LPCM is carried only by HDMI and DisplayPort. S/PDIF FAQ (http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2810&Itemid=232) written by SpHeRe31459 is a good article on S/PDIF.

A non-HDMI receiver can't receive multichannel LPCM. Multichannel LPCM is carried only by HDMI and DisplayPort. S/PDIF FAQ (http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2810&Itemid=232) written by SpHeRe31459 is a good article on S/PDIF.

Thanks for the link. However, it does show that your first statement is incorrect. Here's the quote "Typically sound out the S/PDIF for anything that is not pre-encoded in AC3/DTS will not be multi-channel." But the AC3 & DTS stuff IS pre-encoded so I guess that is why we cannot get THAT multichannel data via the S/PDIF interface.

However, it also goes on to state that other types of audio won't be treated the same and therefore it would come out as only 2-channel stereo. Others in these forums have been stating that "the core DTS stream will be used if the TrueHD is not available". This also would explain why those with S/PDIF don't get anything but 2-channel stereo if the BD ONLY has TrueHD...

Is a 450 watt power supply enough for this system?

Antec P182 Gun Metal Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010090007%2050001516%201054808287&name=ATX%20Mid%20Tower)
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139003)
ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299)
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017)
CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184)
ASUS EN9500GT OC/DI/512M GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121271)
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD7500AAKS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151171)
SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD Burner - OEM [/URL]

I don't plan on adding a second graphics card, but may add another hard drive in the future.I did put an old Iomega Zip drive and floppy drive in the case. My tv tuner is an external HDHomerun connected by ethernet.

Probably, but I'd bump it up to a 600w to be safe and allow for some future upgrades.

However, it does show that your first statement is incorrect. Here's the quote "Typically sound out the S/PDIF for anything that is not pre-encoded in AC3/DTS will not be multi-channel." But the AC3 & DTS stuff IS pre-encoded so I guess that is why we cannot get THAT multichannel data via the S/PDIF interface.

However, it also goes on to state that other types of audio won't be treated the same and therefore it would come out as only 2-channel stereo. Others in these forums have been stating that "the core DTS stream will be used if the TrueHD is not available". This also would explain why those with S/PDIF don't get anything but 2-channel stereo if the BD ONLY has TrueHD...
I am sorry that I can't follow your argument why you think it is incorrect, but the fact is that my statement "A non-HDMI receiver can't receive multichannel LPCM" is correct. (If you have a receiver, then why not test yourself?) S/PDIF simply does not have enough bandwidth for multichannel LPCM. The bandwidth necessary for 8-channel 24-bit/96kHz LPCM is:

- 24 x 192kHz x 8 = 18.432 Mb/s

that is not supported by S/PDIF. Basically S/PDIF (and its professional version AES/EBU) was invented a long time ago to carry 2-4 channel LPCM audio from CD/DAT (Digital Audio Tape), and DD/DTS from DVD. Well, the true reason for non-support for multichannel LPCM by S/PDIF may not be bandwidth, but whatever it is, S/PDIF does not support multichannel LPCM.

Is a 450 watt power supply enough for this system?

I don't plan on adding a second graphics card, but may add another hard drive in the future.I did put an old Iomega Zip drive and floppy drive in the case. My tv tuner is an external HDHomerun connected by ethernet.

IS it enough?


A Q6600 OCed to 3600MHZ with an 8800GTX fully loaded (also oced) runs about 406W AC draw at 80% efficiency. You could probably run it on a antec earth watts 350 for a little while. but i really do not recommend it.


I always recommend adding 30-50% to a systems needed power when selecting a PSU. This covers capicator aging, future upgrades ( a couple hard drives or a next gen replacment of video card), power efficency curve and longevity.

Running anything at 100% of its rating will kill it, plus PSU's tend to have their best efficency in the 50-60% range with few exceptions.

So guessing that your setup needs 300W at full load then a 450 is right in your range. This percentage is based on getting a GOOD psu though, off of the top of my head I forget who builds the corsair units but they are decent for the price if you can get a good deal on one then do it. There are some nice deals on corsair nonmidular units every couple of months. Might be able to get one very cheap.

Is a 450 watt power supply enough for this system?
Enough. A rough estimate of maximum power consumption is:

- CPU: 95W (TDP)
- mb: 50W
- memory (2 sticks): 10W
- 9500 GT: 50W (TDP)
- DVD drive: 25W
- HDD x 2: 20W
- Total: 250W

But you will never max out every component at a time. (A typical power consumption of your sytem at BD playback is ~100W.)

BTW the efficiency of CMPSU-450VX is pretty good (80.1% even at 100% load (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article751-page4.html): 451W DC output/563W AC input). But 100% load will never be reached unless you add more than ten HDDs.

How soon "should" we see mATX based boards available - are they waiting in the wings after this long delay?

Anyone know

if I want to build the mini-itx system from the guide on page 85 but replace the e5200 with an e7200 core 2 duo, will I be able to use the stock heatsink fan? planning on using an apex mi-100 for the case..

I am hoping I might get a bit of help for a problem with my brand new HTPC:confused:

This is the hardware config:
Scythe Ninja Mini
Core 2 duo E8600
ASUS P5Q Deluxe
V raptor 180 gb
500 gb 7200
LG Blueray combo
Gigabyte 4850.... also tried swapping the Gigabyte card with an ASUS card to no avail.
Vista Home premium
Xonar HDAV 1.3
2 gb hyper X 9600 DDR 2
Silverstone LC 20 black HTPC case...NOT MUCH ROOM!
antec 550 WATT psu

What is happening is the 3dmark 2006 demo that we are using for a stability test will not complete without locking up when the case cover is on....

We have installed 4 fans in the case to try to remove the heat but still too hot.... The next card we are trying is the 4600 ati because of its lesser wattage. I am not a gamer so the lesser video card wont bother me.

Is that case just too small? Its an ATX form factor.

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Thanks renethx and contributors for the guide and all the info put into this thread, it is a great resource for someone like myself with considerably less PC knowledge:confused:

I used Renethx's recommendation for the ATX AMD/Nvidia High end build with a Silverstone LC13 case. I have Vista Ultimate 32 bit OS and the OEM version 7.3 of PowerDVD installed. This is connected to an Onkyo 875 A/V rec and a mits HC6000 PJ. I have ripped one of my BD's to the HD as an ISO that I can display through the PJ via PowerDVD, but I have no audio.

I'm using a DVI/HDMI dongle from the 9800GT card to connect my HTPC to the 875 for video. I'm using a digital coax cable from the SPDIF out on the ASUS M3N72-D MB to the Coax 1 input on the 875.

I installed all the latest drivers from ASUS after I built the HTPC but still no audio. I know the coax cable is functioning so I don't know if this is a driver issue, if the SPDIF port is bad, or its a PowerDVD issue.
Any suggestions? Thanks

All this talk about LPCM, but what sources have it? BD?

All this talk about LPCM, but what sources have it? BD?

Yes, it's all about HD audio playback (which for now all goes through LPCM first).

All this LPCM stuff is mildly confusing...so can I ask a really dumb question?

I've got a 7.1 channel home cinema and a HDMI receiver (not sure if it's 1.3 though, but let's assume so). HDMI combines video and audio, so may work great to feed 7.1 through the speakers on a HDTV, but what in the full professional home cinema where the projector takes the video and the speakers take the audio. How do I get 7.1 to the speakers?

Looking at the rear of my receiver, and consulting the manual, I could feed from the analogue outputs on the HTPC to the analogue inputs on the receiver. Would I lose anything in the process (I guess depends on how good the HTPC DACs are, so probably not the best, right?) Is there a pure digital path that lets my receiver do the DAC?

I'm rigging up a G45 equipped HTPC, are my options any different with this? I bought it solely because I understood this would give me 7.1 LPCM.

All this LPCM stuff is mildly confusing...so can I ask a really dumb question?

I've got a 7.1 channel home cinema and a HDMI receiver (not sure if it's 1.3 though, but let's assume so). HDMI combines video and audio, so may work great to feed 7.1 through the speakers on a HDTV, but what in the full professional home cinema where the projector takes the video and the speakers take the audio. How do I get 7.1 to the speakers?

Looking at the rear of my receiver, and consulting the manual, I could feed from the analogue outputs on the HTPC to the analogue inputs on the receiver. Would I lose anything in the process (I guess depends on how good the HTPC DACs are, so probably not the best, right?) Is there a pure digital path that lets my receiver do the DAC?

I'm rigging up a G45 equipped HTPC, are my options any different with this? I bought it solely because I understood this would give me 7.1 LPCM.


1) Feed HDMI from the source device (e.g. HTPC) to the AVR or pre-pro via one HDMI cable
1a) Feed all other source devices (e.g. DVR) to the AVR or pre-pro via one HDMI cable each
2) Feed speakers from the AVR/pre-pro as normal
3) Feed TV from the AVR/pre-pro via only one HDMI cable
4) The AVR/pre-pro switches between the HDMI sources, and sends sound to the speakers, video to the TV (and optionally sound to the TV, but this can be problematic as many TV's only accept 2-channel low-bitrate audio, so most people either don't send sound to the TV, or switch listening modes before sending sound to the TV).

Make sense? It's exactly why we want a good HDMI solution for our HTPC's, so they can fit in the rack just like any other HDMI source device. This minimizes significantly the cables used.

Hi,

I have an old Dell Optiplex GX280:

P4 2.8 Hyperthreaded
800 Mhz FSB
2 or 4 Gbs of memory (I don't know why I'd need 4)

That's all that's in it right now. I want to turn this box into a home theater machine. I've been reading this thread, and there's a lot of information in it, but I'm not sure on what I need to get. I don't care about gaming...AT ALL, so I'm looking at the GIGABYTE GeForce 8500 GT GV-NX85T256H. One question I have is will the DVI -> HDMI conversion work for standard computing...IE, surfing the web, etc...or do I need to hook up the VGA as well? I'm interested in using the computer for computing as well...I know that some cards don't allow standard OS graphics over the DVI -> HDMI conversion.

I think that I can get any BluRay internal drive. I know I don't need a burner, but I see them at significant discounts. I believe that I can run the HDMI signal out to my TV, and then use the digital passthrough on my TV to feed my Bose 321 system. Is there any special drive I need or will any BluRay drive work?

I am going to be running Vista Ultimate (32 bit) which is why I'll run 4Gbs of Ram unless I can pull it off with 2Gb.

Do I need anything more than that card and a Blu Ray ROM?

Thanks, and sorry for asking n00b questions.

All this talk about LPCM, but what sources have it? BD?

BD, in many cases, has LPCM as its audio. In other cases, Dolby TrueHD or DD+ and DTS MA are decoded in software into LPCM.

For that matter, standard DD or DTS can be decoded in software into LPCM.

Any time you can run audio out to your 6- or 8-speaker analog outs, you are sending it in LPCM until the final stage when it passes through the DACs and becomes analog.

Really great guide! Helped me a lot.

Regards,
Bay_wolf.

if I want to build the mini-itx system from the guide on page 85 but replace the e5200 with an e7200 core 2 duo, will I be able to use the stock heatsink fan? planning on using an apex mi-100 for the case..
Yes. Power consumption of E7200 is almost the same as E5200.

What is happening is the 3dmark 2006 demo that we are using for a stability test will not complete without locking up when the case cover is on....

We have installed 4 fans in the case to try to remove the heat but still too hot.... The next card we are trying is the 4600 ati because of its lesser wattage. I am not a gamer so the lesser video card wont bother me.
Did you check the GPU temperature?

HD 4650/4670 is a better choice for non-gamers.

the OEM version 7.3 of PowerDVD installed. This is connected to an Onkyo 875 A/V rec and a mits HC6000 PJ. I have ripped one of my BD's to the HD as an ISO that I can display through the PJ via PowerDVD, but I have no audio.
- Install the latest Realtek driver from the Realtek site.
- Choose the correct sound device "Realtek Digital Output" in the "Sound" dialog box.
- Try PowerDVD 8 Ultra (tryout). Choose "S/PDIF Output" and choose "AC3 mixing" or "DTS mixing" to make sure to get surround sounds from every source. Or try TotalMedia Theater (tryout). DTS encoder is available.
- You can also use "NVIDIA HDMI Output" via HDMI for 7.1 LPCM/DD/DTS in either Hybrid SLI mode (works only with selected 9800 GT cards) or the normal extended desktop mode. Install the latest NVIDIA HDMI audio driver (and select "Boost Performance" in case you use Hybrid Power).

I believe that I can run the HDMI signal out to my TV, and then use the digital passthrough on my TV to feed my Bose 321 system.
GX280 comes with several versions (Small Form-Factor, Small Desktop, Desktop, Small Mini-Tower, Mini-Tower). Which one do you have? Which TV (model number) do you have? There are several Bose 321, which model number? These are important in choosing a correct graphics card.

Yes. Power consumption of E7200 is almost the same as E5200.

Thanks a lot for replying.. I was planning to get a mac mini for the longest time but they never refreshed it. Here's the htpc I'm gonna order the parts for tomorrow.. gonna run linux and boxee on it.. no need for tv tuner..

it's basically the same Mini-itx system from page 85
Apex MI-100 $58 free shipping on amazon
Intel DG45FC motherboard $150 free shipping on amazon
Intel E7200 2.53GHz wolfdale core 2 duo $120 free shipping on amazon
2x1gb ddr2 667mhz dimms I already have
western digital 750gb 7200rpm sata hard drive I have already
no optical drive, gonna install the os via my 8 gb flash drive(hopefully)
I'll just use the onboard video and the case's psu.. also I hope the stock cpu heatsink fits.
I have a microsoft remote and ir receiver laying around I'll use with it since I know it already has good linux support

I'm considering using a 2.5" 5400 laptop hard drive for the low heat and sound.. is using a 3.5" 7200 rpm sata drive still a good choice in a case this size?

So, I'm planning to build a HD (1080p) MythTV Frontend, so obviously I'm looking for Linux friendly hardware. ;) I'm basically looking at the recommended "low end" system (with more RAM, to hopefully allow better buffering using the GigE), as this will be doing nothing but decoding video pulled from the server on the LAN.

# CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz Socket 775, $84.
# Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $65.
# Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM Intel G45 chipset mATX, $127.
# Graphics Card: GMA X4500HD (integrated in the motherboard chipset), $0.
I'm planning on getting a CF->SATA adapter with an 8GB CF card to host the OS, logging, and other necessary stuff.

I've basically got 2 main questions:
1) As mentioned above, I'd like to decode full 1080p. Can anyone speak to the X4500 HD support in linux? Any access to the hardware acceleration? If not, what kind of CPU would I need to do it with no help from the GPU?
2) What is the smallest PSU (Watt) I can get away with? This obviously depends on whether I need to add another dedicated GPU or a much faster CPU, but the system listed above should ok with 250W-300W, no?

Thank in advance!

*edit* Forgot to mention that I'm not actually buying the parts until I'm home for Xmas and have time to tinker. So if drivers aren't there now, but things are "somewhat" to "mostly" working, I'd love to hear that too! ;)

I'm considering using a 2.5" 5400 laptop hard drive for the low heat and sound.. is using a 3.5" 7200 rpm sata drive still a good choice in a case this size?
Using a 2.5" drive is a good idea to reduce noise/power.

2) What is the smallest PSU (Watt) I can get away with? This obviously depends on whether I need to add another dedicated GPU or a much faster CPU, but the system listed above should ok with 250W-300W, no?
Surely 250W is enough. I have never seen the power consumption of the system above+HDD+BD drive exceed 150W.

renethx I thought the Q6600 overclocked was the "hot ticket" still, but I don't see this CPU anywhere in your recommendations. Is it still a good choice, and do you know the "best" mobo to mate with it? If not, why are you favoring the (what, Q9550) over it? Thanks!

i have downloaded a DTS sample audio. when the audio was played in MPC-Home Cinema, all I heard was noise. what's wrong? DTS audio in a movie played fine.

renethx I thought the Q6600 overclocked was the "hot ticket" still, but I don't see this CPU anywhere in your recommendations. Is it still a good choice, and do you know the "best" mobo to mate with it? If not, why are you favoring the (what, Q9550) over it? Thanks!
Q6600 is still recommeded if you need CPU power but don't want to spend more than $200 for a 45nm quad-core. (I am using Q6600 in one of my office machines.)

i have downloaded a DTS sample audio. when the audio was played in MPC-Home Cinema, all I heard was noise. what's wrong? DTS audio in a movie played fine.
Please tell me more (OS, file extension, filters, download link ...).

Any thoughts on this new model from Acer?

Gizmodo Link (http://gizmodo.com/5062908/acer-releases-ax3200-blu+ray-desktop-pc-and-p244w-1080p-lcd-display)

Specifications, Pricing and Availability
The Aspire AX3200-U3630A desktop PC is available at Fry's with a manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) of $679.99. The Acer P244W 24-inch LCD display is available at technology and electronics retailers with a manufacturer's suggested retail price of $339.

Acer® AX3200-U3630A: Available now for a MSRP of $679.99
• AMD Phenom(TM) X3 Triple-Core 8450 Processor (2.1GHz, 512KB X 3 L2 Cache)
• 4096MB DDR2 Memory, Dual Channel
• NVIDIA® GeForce® 8200 Chipset
• Integrated NVIDIA® GeForce® 8200 Graphics Solution
• 640GB SATA II (7200RPM, 8MB Cache) (2)
• Blu-ray Disc(TM)/DVD-Super Multi Double-Layer Drive
• Multi-in-One Digital Media Card Reader
• 56K ITU v.92 Ready Fax/Modem (RJ-11 Port)
• Optimized Dolby Home Theater®
• Windows Vista® Home Premium 64-Bit with SP1
• 9 USB 2.0 Ports (5 Front, 4 Rear)
• IEEE 1394 Port
• HDMI Port
• eSATA Port
• Amplified Stereo Speakers (USB Powered)
• Acer USB Keyboard
• USB Optical Mouse

Would it be wise to build one for my parents (they are in the market for a new DVR) who aren't too technologically savvy?

I've been dying to build a Home Theater PC, but haven't been able to justify the cost (currently a student living at home). My parents are now looking to buy a DVR for the home, but I was thinking of offering to build a HTPC instead of them paying for a DVR. The DVR will do just fine for what they need, but there seem to be far more advantages to having a HTPC.

Only problem is, my parents aren't too technologically savvy, so I'm afraid this may cause more complications than it is worth. I'm going to have the TV and everything in my living room running through the HTPC, so they will be forced to operate it, so I'm wondering how complicated this could potentially make things.

Any thoughts on this new model from Acer?
It looks a great system. :)

Would it be wise to build one for my parents (they are in the market for a new DVR) who aren't too technologically savvy?
A short answer is, HTPC can't replace DVR.

Please read the TV tuner section at page 1. Recording in HTPC is limited to OTA and basic cable channels.

A short answer is, HTPC can't replace DVR.

Please read the TV tuner section at page 1. Recording in HTPC is limited to OTA and basic cable channels.

Wow, was not aware of this. Thanks a bunch. Guess DVR it is, then.

Bingo13 posted The IGP Chronicles Part 2: AMD 780G vs. Intel G45 vs. NVIDIA GeForce 8200 (http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3430).

Final Words

As for the chipsets we looked at today, it is difficult to declare a true winner at this time. Especially given the fact that the new NVIDIA chipsets are launching shortly. However, if we had to choose one chipset for primary HTPC usage, it would be the NVIDIA GeForce 8200. The GF8200 offers 8-channel LPCM output, no hassle 1080P/24 fps playback capabilities, modest pricing, and a relatively low power envelope when paired with an appropriate processor such as the Phenom X3 8750 or Phenom X4 9350e.

This is a difficult decision as the AMD 780G is a better balanced chipset offering improved casual gaming performance, equal video quality, similiar power requirements, greater availability, and better pricing. The performance of certain 780G motherboards can equal or nearly match those of the 790GX with some creative mGPU overclocking and most models come in a space saving uATX form factor. Also, depending on the motherboard, DVI-D dual link is supported with resolutions going to 2560x1600, something the GF8200 and G45 do not support.

The drawback for us is the lack of multi-channel LPCM HDMI audio output and not so great 1080P/24 fps playback capabilities. If these items were not important to you, then the 780G would probably be at the top of our list. Of course, these problems can be solved with an inexpensive HD 4550 or HD 4670 video card but that completely throws off the price advantage over the Intel platform in one aspect. In another, you end up with a significantly improved platform offering balanced performance for the HTPC, casual gamer, or SOHO user.

That leaves the Intel G45. If you are an Intel fan, this is your only real IGP choice, well for the next few days at least. The G45 is acceptable for an HTPC platform as it offers excellent video quality and 8-channel LPCM output. However, we have no idea if implementation of 1080P/24 fps support will occur. Speaking of driver quality and features, this is one area where Intel is behind AMD and NVIDIA. In addition, platform cost is a problem when looking at the mid to lower range processor market compared to AMD. This is something we will look at shortly as it pertains to the IG market.

They also stated:

On one end of the spectrum we have Intel's G45 which absolutely does not support proper 24p playback. The G45 still does not have official support for it in the drivers and although 24 fps playback is possible in the hardware, we seriously doubt the software group will implement it (that's a dare).

This is false. I have used 24p playback on my G45 (via Intel drivers), however crappy it is. Not sure when they did this review, but I've had my board for about a month already.

Yep. 24p support is there in the drivers, it's just that folks are seeing stuttering.

(I applaud Arcsoft, BTW, as they are apparently assembling data on why this is occuring)

I've basically got 2 main questions:
1) As mentioned above, I'd like to decode full 1080p. Can anyone speak to the X4500 HD support in linux? Any access to the hardware acceleration?


Video hardware acceleration of all but the most basic kind (motion compensation) is missing from Linux right now across all graphics providers. Intel's got a roadmap on implementing HW support, but pinning the guys down on dates is ultimately very difficult.


If not, what kind of CPU would I need to do it with no help from the GPU?

Any Core 2 Quad. A high-end Core 2 Duo (2.67GHz or 3GHz) can also handle anything except the most egregious Blu-ray bitrates of H.264... and even then, if the bitstream is not encrypted it can probably still pull it off.

2) What is the smallest PSU (Watt) I can get away with? This obviously depends on whether I need to add another dedicated GPU or a much faster CPU, but the system listed above should ok with 250W-300W, no?

A short answer is, HTPC can't replace DVR.

Please read the TV tuner section at page 1. Recording in HTPC is limited to OTA and basic cable channels.

I'll nitpick and say that an DIY HTPC and a cable box can replace a DVR with the use of the HD-PVR or an R5000 mod to the set top box. However, then you are still paying for the cost of the cable box rental every month.

Purchasing a pre-built machine with CableCard would replace the DVR entirely, and your cable company will still charge you a cable card rental fee.


But yes, go read the entire first section is a good recommendation.

I also probably would never give an HTPC to my mother. It screams weekly tech support phone calls.

Yes, my folks would never be able to use a HTPC as a DVR replacement. I do get a lot of those tech support calls, even though they have a Dish DVR. Even a relatively easy to use HTPC computer would be a support nightmare for me and them.

Technically, though, you can get OTA and satellite recording and DVR-like functionality from a modified Dish 211/411/622 receiver. Get the Nextcom R5000 mod to one of those boxes and you can have the best of a lot of worlds. Just don't expect to teach your parents to use it easily.

I need some help I am building my HTPC with the following components:

Case: Thermaltake DH102 case
CPU Fan: Zalman CNPS9500 CPU fan
Power supply: Enermax MODU82+ 625W (EMD625AWT)
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6
And Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz Socket 775
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA
Memory: G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ DDR2-1000 2 x 2GB Kit,
Graphic card: Sapphire HD 4870 X2
CD burner: GGW-H20L (will this fit the Theemaltake DH102 case?)
Sound card (I will wait until all bugs are worked out) ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3

I want to use the Graphics card to send out audio and video by means of the HDMI connector. The graphics card does not have a way to connect the 7.1 audio internal to the Motherboard, I would have thought that I could redirect audio to the card and send audio and video by means of HDMI. Can anyone advice me how I can manage this. do I have to send audio to Anthem D2 by means of the optic cable? I am hoping I do not have to do this. if this is true and I have to give up my hope to use HDMI to HDMI to my Anthem D2, when the Xonar HDAV1.3 has worked out all its problems can I redirect the video to the audio card and do what I originally want to do. HDMI to HDMI..

Help ... I am so close to finishing this project. The only other question is, do I consider doing a raid or just set it as AHCI

Thank you in advance

Fred

BD, in many cases, has LPCM as its audio. In other cases, Dolby TrueHD or DD+ and DTS MA are decoded in software into LPCM.

For that matter, standard DD or DTS can be decoded in software into LPCM.

Any time you can run audio out to your 6- or 8-speaker analog outs, you are sending it in LPCM until the final stage when it passes through the DACs and becomes analog.

DD or DTS recoded in LPCM would not be any benefit since the source is lossy. I did a bit of Googling on LPCM, AE3S, and S/PDIF. Regular DVDs (not just BD) support LPCM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AES3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_pulse_code_modulation

I am only concerned with HDTV, regular DVDs, and CD audio on my HTPC. BD is a possibility in the future, but since it's not supported in Linux and requires expensive drives, I have decided to go without it for now.

I believe S/PDIF works for my needs as it is designed for carrying DD5.1 and DTS and also carries uncompressed digital audio from a CD player to a receiver. I want to be sure I am not losing/compromising my sound quality. HDTV is DD5.1. As far as I know, regular DVDs are encoded in DD5.1 and some have DTS as well. Although the DVD format supports LPCM, I believe any content would simply be DD or DTS recoded into LPCM. My receiver only handles DD5.1 and I can't see a need for more than 5.1 channels. In my situation, I see no benefit with LPCM, correct?

I am now building my HTPC and ran into this problem with the SATA drives only showing up as 137GB when installing Windows XP Pro. I think it is a BIOS issue which I am about to try and resolve. I have just never run into this before, but never used a SATA drive before wither...
GA-EP35-DS3P
2 WD 640GB SATA drives
Windows XP Pro (original no SP, have to add that after the install)

older crt TV that has a component input available. Can I get this to work through a secondary output from the card? I'll want to use the primary output to drive my desktop LCD monitor.

I want to use the Graphics card to send out audio and video by means of the HDMI connector. The graphics card does not have a way to connect the 7.1 audio internal to the Motherboard, I would have thought that I could redirect audio to the card and send audio and video by means of HDMI. Can anyone advice me how I can manage this. do I have to send audio to Anthem D2 by means of the optic cable? I am hoping I do not have to do this. if this is true and I have to give up my hope to use HDMI to HDMI to my Anthem D2, when the Xonar HDAV1.3 has worked out all its problems can I redirect the video to the audio card and do what I originally want to do. HDMI to HDMI.
HD 4870 X2 has a built-in HD audio controller. So you don't have to use any other audio device to get HDMI audio from the graphics card. Just use the bundled DVI-HDMI adapter and connect it to your receiver. Select "Realtek HDMI Output" in the Sound dialog box. (Don't forget to install "ATI HDMI audio driver" [the latest version is downloadable from the Realtek site].)

I believe S/PDIF works for my needs as it is designed for carrying DD5.1 and DTS and also carries uncompressed digital audio from a CD player to a receiver. I want to be sure I am not losing/compromising my sound quality. HDTV is DD5.1. As far as I know, regular DVDs are encoded in DD5.1 and some have DTS as well. Although the DVD format supports LPCM, I believe any content would simply be DD or DTS recoded into LPCM. My receiver only handles DD5.1 and I can't see a need for more than 5.1 channels. In my situation, I see no benefit with LPCM, correct?
You are right. If your sound sources are DD, DTS or stereo LPCM, S/PDIF is enough.

I am now building my HTPC and ran into this problem with the SATA drives only showing up as 137GB when installing Windows XP Pro. I think it is a BIOS issue which I am about to try and resolve. I have just never run into this before, but never used a SATA drive before wither...
GA-EP35-DS3P
2 WD 640GB SATA drives
Windows XP Pro (original no SP, have to add that after the install)
Perhaps you need to apply SP. Or slipstream SP to XP before installation (use nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/)).

older crt TV that has a component input available. Can I get this to work through a secondary output from the card? I'll want to use the primary output to drive my desktop LCD monitor.
Yes. Use the bundled component video cable.

1) Feed HDMI from the source device (e.g. HTPC) to the AVR or pre-pro via one HDMI cable
1a) Feed all other source devices (e.g. DVR) to the AVR or pre-pro via one HDMI cable each
2) Feed speakers from the AVR/pre-pro as normal
3) Feed TV from the AVR/pre-pro via only one HDMI cable
4) The AVR/pre-pro switches between the HDMI sources, and sends sound to the speakers, video to the TV (and optionally sound to the TV, but this can be problematic as many TV's only accept 2-channel low-bitrate audio, so most people either don't send sound to the TV, or switch listening modes before sending sound to the TV).

Make sense? It's exactly why we want a good HDMI solution for our HTPC's, so they can fit in the rack just like any other HDMI source device. This minimizes significantly the cables used.
Thanks. Yes, it makes sense (and it WAS a dumb question). I think I just had a brain freeze.

Although the DVD format supports LPCM, I believe any content would simply be DD or DTS recoded into LPCM. My receiver only handles DD5.1 and I can't see a need for more than 5.1 channels. In my situation, I see no benefit with LPCM, correct?
Technically, many DVDs also have 2-channel LPCM tracks, so it's not lossy. But your overall conclusion still stands.

*I am building a HTPC from the list...

But I cant find the "GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P" on the europen Gigabyte webpage.

Any other Gigabyte recommendation?

And I like the idea about 5 PCI express cards...

Is Intel Chipset P45 better than Nvidia 9XXX ?

Thanks for your input

But I cant find the "GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P" on the europen Gigabyte webpage.

Any other Gigabyte recommendation?
Which European site are you referring to? UD3 Series was released this month. They will show up on every GIGABYTE site eventually.

The previous recommendation was ASUS P5Q PRO. It is still recommended in case GA-EP45-UD3P is not available.

Please tell me more (OS, file extension, filters, download link ...).

http://www.kellyindustries.com/sounds.html
the file that i've downloaded is "The Other Side - DTS (WAV @ 44.1kHz/16-bit Stereo)"
http://www.kellyindustries.com/downloads/dts_the_other_side_44khz_wav.zip
OS is WinXP SP3. I'm using MPC-HomeCinema with its own filter.

4350 Passive on the Egg for 40 clams. No HDMI dongle in photo so another 10 for that if you don't have one.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127390

Which European site are you referring to? UD3 Series was released this month. They will show up on every GIGABYTE site eventually.

The previous recommendation was ASUS P5Q PRO. It is still recommended in case GA-EP45-UD3P is not available.

I cant post any links (New to the AVsforum need 3 post before I can do that ;) )
I looked at the Danish page, so this might just not be updated.

One other thing! someone told me that there is a MB with a embedded HD player chip for (790G) that plays H264 & Blu-Ray so you dont really need a Graphic card like the one recommended on the list (ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT) and you dont need a powerfull/expensive CPU? is that true?

Is it because the card supports HDCP on the HDMI, so I can play protected Blu Rays on my PC?

renethx, i bought a recommended setup of yours with the scythe ninja mini and the gd02. these are absolutely incompatible! there is no way to install the drivebay when the ninja is installed......

Perhaps you need to apply SP. Or slipstream SP to XP before installation (use nLite (http://www.nliteos.com/)).

That is exactly what I did, slipstreamed SP3 to my XP Pro install. Plus removed a bunch of junk that I don't need for a HTPC. Need to read up on all the services to disable as well and remove those during the nLite creation process. Thanks!

http://www.kellyindustries.com/sounds.html
the file that i've downloaded is "The Other Side - DTS (WAV @ 44.1kHz/16-bit Stereo)"
http://www.kellyindustries.com/downloads/dts_the_other_side_44khz_wav.zip
OS is WinXP SP3. I'm using MPC-HomeCinema with its own filter.
You have to use a media player supporting "kernel streaming", for example, foobar2000 and winamp. Please read this (http://www.mp3car.com/wiki/index.php/Bit-perfect).

someone told me that there is a MB with a embedded HD player chip for (790G) that plays H264 & Blu-Ray so you dont really need a Graphic card like the one recommended on the list (ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT) and you dont need a powerfull/expensive CPU? is that true?

Is it because the card supports HDCP on the HDMI, so I can play protected Blu Rays on my PC?
Is that (http://www.giga-byte.dk/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2919) the page you are looking for?

Yes. There are several chipsets that integrates graphics processor supporting smooth Blu-ray playback. Check my mATX/ATX system feature comparison charts.

Thank you renethx, the mother board has HD 7.1 audio capabilities. Do I disable this and let graphic card handle both audio and video? Or will the graphic card take the info from the motherboard and output it the VGA\HDMI output.

Thanks for your help

Fred

renethx, i bought a recommended setup of yours with the scythe ninja mini and the gd02. these are absolutely incompatible! there is no way to install the drivebay when the ninja is installed......
I am sorry for that. The case I tested was GD02MT (slim DVD) and I didn't notice any problem at that time, maybe slim DVD was the point? This kind of problems are unavoidable ... The stock cooler and Zalman CNPS8700 should be OK. I will revise the part list shortly.

Thanks renethx and contributors for the guide and all the info put into this thread, it is a great resource for someone like myself with considerably less PC knowledge:confused:

I used Renethx's recommendation for the ATX AMD/Nvidia High end build with a Silverstone LC13 case. I have Vista Ultimate 32 bit OS and the OEM version 7.3 of PowerDVD installed. This is connected to an Onkyo 875 A/V rec and a mits HC6000 PJ. I have ripped one of my BD's to the HD as an ISO that I can display through the PJ via PowerDVD, but I have no audio.

I'm using a DVI/HDMI dongle from the 9800GT card to connect my HTPC to the 875 for video. I'm using a digital coax cable from the SPDIF out on the ASUS M3N72-D MB to the Coax 1 input on the 875.

I installed all the latest drivers from ASUS after I built the HTPC but still no audio. I know the coax cable is functioning so I don't know if this is a driver issue, if the SPDIF port is bad, or its a PowerDVD issue.
Any suggestions? Thanks

- Install the latest Realtek driver from the Realtek site.
- Choose the correct sound device "Realtek Digital Output" in the "Sound" dialog box.
- Try PowerDVD 8 Ultra (tryout). Choose "S/PDIF Output" and choose "AC3 mixing" or "DTS mixing" to make sure to get surround sounds from every source. Or try TotalMedia Theater (tryout). DTS encoder is available.
- You can also use "NVIDIA HDMI Output" via HDMI for 7.1 LPCM/DD/DTS in either Hybrid SLI mode (works only with selected 9800 GT cards) or the normal extended desktop mode. Install the latest NVIDIA HDMI audio driver (and select "Boost Performance" in case you use Hybrid Power).

I've discovered this isn't just a BD issue. I have installed the latest RealTek drivers but I cannot get ANY audio through my AV rec. I can receive video using a DVI/HDMI dongle from the 9800GT card to my AV rec, but I cannot get any audio with any app. With the digital coax in place and the port correctly mapped in the AV rec, it still reads - analog - and no audio. I can get Media Player audio through headphones plugged into the front jacks of my case but that's it. I can see the bouncing green meter for the digital audio out as well in the HD device manager when that's selected. If the graphics card internal SPDIF connection to the motherboard is in place, will that allow video AND audio over the 9800's DVI/HDMI cable?

I've enabled the on board video in the BIOS so I could at least try the mobo HDMI port - with this hooked up I get neither audio nor video. The rec indicates - no signal. If I use the mobo HDMI shouldn't I be able to receive video and audio - I'll just be bypassing the graphics card right?

Is there any way to test if the mobo ports are working properly? If I could verify that, I could at least rule out a hardware issue and focus on the software issues.

Forgive my abundant ignorance on this matter, but I'm not making any headway.:confused:

Thank you renethx, the mother board has HD 7.1 audio capabilities. Do I disable this and let graphic card handle both audio and video? Or will the graphic card take the info from the motherboard and output it the VGA\HDMI output.
You don't have to disable any other sound devices. Just select "Realtek HDMI Output" (or something like that; sorry, I don't remember the name). Then OS/driver sends audio to the video card's HD audio controller.

I cant post any links (New to the AVsforum need 3 post before I can do that ;) )
I looked at the Danish page, so this might just not be updated.

One other thing! someone told me that there is a MB with a embedded HD player chip for (790G) that plays H264 & Blu-Ray so you dont really need a Graphic card like the one recommended on the list (ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT) and you dont need a powerfull/expensive CPU? is that true?

Is it because the card supports HDCP on the HDMI, so I can play protected Blu Rays on my PC?

I found this about the AMD chipset sounds almost to god to be true?
About how this Chipset plays all the format without using to much power/heat
which again means a quiet HTPC? again I dont know if this is old news but I havent seen any comments about this in the tread?

3 post here comes a link:
LINK HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcbGV6Pfb6Q)

I've discovered this isn't just a BD issue. I have installed the latest RealTek drivers but I cannot get ANY audio through my AV rec. I can receive video using a DVI/HDMI dongle from the 9800GT card to my AV rec, but I cannot get any audio with any app. With the digital coax in place and the port correctly mapped in the AV rec, it still reads - analog - and no audio. I can get Media Player audio through headphones plugged into the front jacks of my case but that's it. I can see the bouncing green meter for the digital audio out as well in the HD device manager when that's selected. If the graphics card internal SPDIF connection to the motherboard is in place, will that allow video AND audio over the 9800's DVI/HDMI cable?

I've enabled the on board video in the BIOS so I could at least try the mobo HDMI port - with this hooked up I get neither audio nor video. The rec indicates - no signal. If I use the mobo HDMI shouldn't I be able to receive video and audio - I'll just be bypassing the graphics card right?

Is there any way to test if the mobo ports are working properly? If I could verify that, I could at least rule out a hardware issue and focus on the software issues.
You can try this as you mentioned: connect the internal S/PDIF connector of the mb to the graphics card's internal S/PDIF port; then both audio and video are carried through HDMI cable. If you configure your receiver correctly, you should get both audio and video (audio still comes from Realtek audio codec).

To use onboard HDMI (for video and audio), you have to install NVIDIA HDMI audio driver and select "NVIDIA HDMI output" in the Sound dialog box.

I found this about the AMD chipset sounds almost to god to be true?
About how this Chipset plays all the format without using to much power/heat
which again means a quiet HTPC? again I dont know if this is old news but I havent seen any comments about this in the tread?
780G chipset is very good if you don't need lossless surround sounds. There is a very active thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=992503) on one of the popular 780G chipset motherboards. AnandTech posted "The IGP Chronicles (three parts)" (http://www.anandtech.com/) that gives you good comparison between the major IGPs.

780G chipset is very good if you don't need lossless surround sounds. There is a very active thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=992503) on one of the popular 780G chipset motherboards. AnandTech posted "The IGP Chronicles (three parts)" (http://www.anandtech.com/) that gives you good comparison between the major IGPs.

I am reading up on all the post and I can see that the new Nvidia 9300/9400 Chipset (http://hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA-GeForce-9300-and-9400-Motherboard-GPUs/?page=1) pretty much does the same thing! and I would like to use Intel even if the power usage is a little more I still think it can be made silent. But there isnt any MB out in stores with that chipset yet....any link to that "Check my mATX/ATX system feature comparison charts." Thanks for all this great information I have learned more the last 4 days reading this than googling the net. THANKS!!:D

I am reading up on all the post and I can see that the new Nvidia 9300/9400 Chipset (http://hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA-GeForce-9300-and-9400-Motherboard-GPUs/?page=1) pretty much does the same thing! and I would like to use Intel even if the power usage is a little more I still think it can be made silent. But there isnt any MB out in stores with that chipset yet....any link to that "Check my mATX/ATX system feature comparison charts." Thanks for all this great information I have learned more the last 4 days reading this than googling the net. THANKS!!:D
GeForce 9300/9400 was released 4 hours ago and I don't think mb are available immediately. The charts at page 85. They haven't included 9300/9400 yet.

I am now building my HTPC and ran into this problem with the SATA drives only showing up as 137GB when installing Windows XP Pro. I think it is a BIOS issue which I am about to try and resolve. I have just never run into this before, but never used a SATA drive before wither...
GA-EP35-DS3P
2 WD 640GB SATA drives
Windows XP Pro (original no SP, have to add that after the install)

Only SP1 and above can utilize partitions > 137GB. You might be able to format/install without SP and later repartition. If you are successful with that, please let us know. I only have a CD for original XP Pro also and just tried a temporary install with a 1 TB drive, but upon finding out the 137GB limitation decided not to and went back to Ubuntu Linux.

Only SP1 and above can utilize partitions > 137GB. You might be able to format/install without SP and later repartition. If you are successful with that, please let us know. I only have a CD for original XP Pro also and just tried a temporary install with a 1 TB drive, but upon finding out the 137GB limitation decided not to and went back to Ubuntu Linux.

This was easily fixed with nLite which is free. nLite allows you to slipstream a service pack into your current XP install (plus do a lot more..) so that the full size of the HD is recognized. I did this last night and it worked perfect. Just download nLite (free) and download the SP you want (I used SP3). nLite will ask for each and you can then create an ISO for burning a new install CD with the SP built in. Thanks to renethx for pointing out nLite to me.

This was easily fixed with nLite which is free. nLite allows you to slipstream a service pack into your current XP install (plus do a lot more..) so that the full size of the HD is recognized. I did this last night and it worked perfect. Just download nLite (free) and download the SP you want (I used SP3). nLite will ask for each and you can then create an ISO for burning a new install CD with the SP built in. Thanks to renethx for pointing out nLite to me.

The other option (if you've already installed XP on a 137 GB partition) is to use backup software, such as the free Seagate DiscWizard, and do a quick backup to another drive and then restore it to as large a partition as you like.

After a fresh install of XP+SP3, the backup and restore only takes about 15-20 minutes (about the same time as getting nLite to slipstream SP2 or SP3 into XP). Note to restore the OS you typically need to use a bootable backup software CD (DiscWizard can create one right from the main menu).

Hello..

I have some questions, and i would like to get some advice. My appoligies in advance for the lengthly post. I want to make sure you all have as much information as possible to help me.

Im not by any means new to the computer world, but im definetly a newb to the HTPC world.

My current set-up is my desktop computer to my HDTV. My computer could only fit in the living room, and then i turned it into a HTPC as well.

I am moving to a house with much more room, and i wont be able to connect the desktop computer to my TV anymore unless i use some crazy long cables etc which is not an option.
Desktop is:
Windows XP SP3
P5W DH Deluxe (Which has been nice since it comes with IR receiver and Remote)
E6700 @ 3.3ghz
2 gigs RAM
The Video goes from my 9800GTX @ 1920x1080 with a DVI-HDMI cable.
The Audio goes from my Audigy 2ZS (Digital port) to my receiver with a mono-to-rca jack and a coax cable.
I have been very pleased with the output from everything i have thrown at it.

So now i want to build a HTPC, or a variant of a HTPC so that i can have its primary function to be a bluray player and media center. I usually "acquire" bluray rips (or rip my own) to my hard drive and play them on my TV. I want to be able to do the same with this new HTPC (or at least the playback part.. since i can just copy the completed movie to it over the network).

I dont want to worry about actually doing recording etc, as my Pace DVR does that and since its already paid for and has huge amounts of space etc... i dont feel the need to accomplish the same thing with this new HTPC. Only what i said about about bluray and media center function.

I also want to spend the least amount of money as possible.

I am very fond of ASUS products. Im an Intel / Nvidia kind of guy, and im anti-vista.

I am pretty sure i have already picked a case. Its the Silverstone LC13B-E.
My Idea was to get one small hard drive for the OS, and two large drives (probably 1tb) in a RAID 1 array for data / movies. That means i would need to have a motherboard with onboard RAID.

Now what i really need is advise from this point foward on what components to use. Motherboard, Processor, Sound Card, Video Card, heatsink\fan etc etc. My experience in building computers has always been with full cases, not a HTPC case, so i need advice from you experts on components that meet the size constraints etc.
My Receiver is an older unit from Sony that only has Optical and Coax inputs. I would prefer to stick with Coax.

Should i just build something similar to my desktop? Maybe just not quite as powerful of a Video Card??

Any suggestions and feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Since you just want playback of bluray rips, any chipset with integrated graphics that does HA will do. You can choose either Intel or AMD cpu's, Intel will cost more but is also a more powerful. For the chipset you can choose between AMD (780g Nvidia 8200/8300) or Intel (Nvidia 9200/9300. Intel G45). It all depends on how much money, if you want 8ch LPCM, 24p playback etc. Since you mention coax output to the receiver I think a 780g build will be perfect and cheap, with something like a 4850e or a Phenom.

Look at renethx's guides, they cover all the parts pretty well.

Should i just build something similar to my desktop? Maybe just not quite as powerful of a Video Card??
My recommedation of ATX system (or mATX system), Low-End, AMD/AMD (without HD 4550) will meet your requirements. The mb has only an optical port, but you can build a coaxial bracket yourself. Look at Peripheral Components and OS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#Peripheral) - Bracket.

i just saw that Asus 4550 video card is deactivated. can you tell me what it sat that?

This is one question that has always bugged me that I have never found a real answer to. I had a 8500GT that has 16-stream processors, that handles 1080p, but can't deinterlace 1080i content to save its life, unless its a simple bob technique, and that generally leaves combing. I capture a ton of 1080i content so this is basically unusable to me and I recently replaced it with a 9600GT that has 64-stream processors and it handles it just fine.

However, on the other hand, I hear how the Geforce 9400, and 780g based systems are good for Blu-Ray playback, yet almost no one mentions anything about 1080i playback. The 9400 has 16-stream processors, so I'm lead to believe that its going to work just like the 8500, and not handle 1080i deinterlacing at all. I would get a 9400 or a 780g for the space and heat savings alone but if it can't do the job I need but I would be ticked if its just like how the 8500 was. Almost no one reports on how these systems handle 1080i so its almost impossible to choose, so if anyone is using similar systems, it would be nice to hear of any troubles you may have had.

You don't have to disable any other sound devices. Just select "Realtek HDMI Output" (or something like that; sorry, I don't remember the name). Then OS/driver sends audio to the video card's HD audio controller.
Follow up
thank you for your help Renethx, I was doing well with the setup, but something happen in the installation process. Once I install all the necessary software (windows Vista 64 bit, drivers .....) I also downloads the drivers as you suggested Vista Driver (32/64 bits) Driver only (ZIP file), there was another link ATI HDMI Audio Device, ( http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=14&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false )that I also downloaded and when I try to install this module the system told me that it could not because it was a 32 and not 64, I do not know if I need to install this driver or not but the Vista Driver (32/64 bits) Driver only (ZIP file) install without any trouble. Once finish I held my breath and put it a CD to see what will happen, the picture came on, but there was no audio, I retry to reinstall Realtek, but then is when I got into trouble, Vista started to give me trouble, it will not update or reinstall any other software, finally at 10PM I gave up and try to re install windows, even that I could not do. I will reformat the system and try again tonight. Not sure what I did wrong, but by sharing this with you I hope that you might have some questions from pass experiences so I might be able not to encounter the same issues as I retry tonight.

Thank you again for your help

Fred

However, on the other hand, I hear how the Geforce 9400, and 780g based systems are good for Blu-Ray playback, yet almost no one mentions anything about 1080i playback. The 9400 has 16-stream processors, so I'm lead to believe that its going to work just like the 8500, and not handle 1080i deinterlacing at all. I would get a 9400 or a 780g for the space and heat savings alone but if it can't do the job I need but I would be ticked if its just like how the 8500 was. Almost no one reports on how these systems handle 1080i so its almost impossible to choose, so if anyone is using similar systems, it would be nice to hear of any troubles you may have had.
Actually there are lots of talks on this subject, in particular for 780G. For example,

- AMD 780G: AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3258&p=4), Official Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H RS780 mATX Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=992503) (search with keyword "deinterlacing")
- GeForce 9300: my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14869440#post14869440), HomeMedia (http://www.homemedia.fr/tests-guides/146-GeForce-9300-le-nouvel-IGP-de-reference-pour-HTPC-4.html)
- Intel G45: my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14548623#post14548623).

Another quick option is the Radeon HD 4550 graphics card. It consumes only 10W at video playback and gives perfect 1080i deinterlacing as well as 7.1 LPCM.

HomeMedia
100/100 for the 9300? HQV Bizarrement is right

Follow up
thank you for your help Renethx, I was doing well with the setup, but something happen in the installation process. Once I install all the necessary software (windows Vista 64 bit, drivers .....) I also downloads the drivers as you suggested Vista Driver (32/64 bits) Driver only (ZIP file), there was another link ATI HDMI Audio Device, ( http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=14&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false )that I also downloaded and when I try to install this module the system told me that it could not because it was a 32 and not 64, I do not know if I need to install this driver or not but the Vista Driver (32/64 bits) Driver only (ZIP file) install without any trouble. Once finish I held my breath and put it a CD to see what will happen, the picture came on, but there was no audio, I retry to reinstall Realtek, but then is when I got into trouble, Vista started to give me trouble, it will not update or reinstall any other software, finally at 10PM I gave up and try to re install windows, even that I could not do. I will reformat the system and try again tonight. Not sure what I did wrong, but by sharing this with you I hope that you might have some questions from pass experiences so I might be able not to encounter the same issues as I retry tonight.
So your system is

- GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6
- Radeon HD 4870 X2
- Windows Vista 64 SP1

right? Download and install the following software in the order below (burn your own driver CD; unzip drivers before burning).

- Windows Vista 64 SP1
- Intel INF Update Utility - ZIP Format (http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=816&OSFullName=Windows+Vista*&lang=eng&strOSs=163&submit=Go!) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)
- Intel Matrix Storage Manager (http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=2101&OSFullName=Windows+Vista*&lang=eng&strOSs=163&submit=Go!) (not necessary unless you do RAID)
- Realtek RTL8111C driver - Auto installation program (support Vista 64 and Vista) (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=5&PFid=5&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false#RTL8111B/RTL8168B/RTL8111/RTL8168/RTL8111C) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)
- Realtek High Definition Audio Codecs driver - Vista Driver (32/64 bits) Driver only (ZIP file) (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)
- ATI graphis driver and Catalyst Software (http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=vista64/common-vista64)
- Realtek ATI HDMI Audio Device (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)

Choose "Realtek HDMI output" in the Sound dialog box. Use the bundled DVI-HDMI adapter. Configure your receiver correctly (which receiver do you use?).

HomeMedia
100/100 for the 9300? HQV Bizarrement is right
Sorry, anything wrong with 100/100 for 9300? NVIDIA claimed the perfect scores and bit-tech.net also got 100/100. 0/100 for G45 is surely odd.

i just saw that Asus 4550 video card is deactivated. can you tell me what it sat that?

I was wondering the same thing! I just bought this card from Newegg. Installed it last night and it looks and works beautifully! Installed quick and perfectly. For the ATI HD 4550 chip I've only seen this one and the Sapphire for sale. I liked the Asus because it actually has the HDMI connector. No idea why it's deactivated! Is it being pulled from the market for some reason?

Renethx, have you had a chance to compare the 4350 with the 4550 video card? There is a passive MSI 4350 at newegg that is low profile that I was going to pick up if it is comparable to the 4550. Thoughts?

Sorry, anything wrong with 100/100 for 9300? NVIDIA claimed the perfect scores and bit-tech.net also got 100/100. 0/100 for G45 is surely odd.

its stuff like that, and the previous alligations that Nvidia was doing something to inflate their score that has me wary. I'll probably go for the 9400 anyways due to your suggestion, since it will be a few weeks before they are out in force, I'll use that to save up for a better processor just in case. Thanks.

I was wondering the same thing! I just bought this card from Newegg. Installed it last night and it looks and works beautifully! Installed quick and perfectly. For the ATI HD 4550 chip I've only seen this one and the Sapphire for sale. I liked the Asus because it actually has the HDMI connector. No idea why it's deactivated! Is it being pulled from the market for some reason?

As far as the HDMI connector, the cards with the DVI connectors work fine as well (mine included the DVI-HDMI connector). I bought a 15' DVI-HDMI cable from monoprice and it works perfect with my HSI HD4670 card. So I am connected DVI on HTPC side and HDMI on TV side. I only use receiver for sound though... Now if you already have all your cables then I understand not wanted to spend more, but if you don't you can still get one of these so there is not an extra connector sticking out of the back of your HTPC. Just a thought.

Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 Update!

For anyone waiting to see what this card does will have to keep waiting. Sorry if someone else has already mentioned this but I didn't find anything mentioned.

I emailed the AuzenTech, Inc. "SupportTeam" <support@auzentech.com> asking for any information and this is their response:

First of all, thank you for your kind interest in our product line.

It is scheduled for November, and the price will be around $249. We will post the specific information as soon as possible.

Should you have any questions, do not hesitate to let us know.
Sincerely,
Support Team
AuzenTech, Inc. (www.auzentech.com)
USA tel 408.727.6212/ fax 408.727.6275/

So there you have it. They probably are fighting with the same problems that the Asus card is...mostly correct drivers I would think. Especially Vista driver support. Probably don't want to face the same slack as Asus so they are holding off until it actually works. Good thinking!!!

Renethx, have you had a chance to compare the 4350 with the 4550 video card? There is a passive MSI 4350 at newegg that is low profile that I was going to pick up if it is comparable to the 4550. Thoughts?
I tested MSI HD 4350. It's good for BD playback with 7.1 audio. But post-processing is subpar (at the same level as HD 3450 and 780G+Athlon). My HD 4550 will arrive tomorrow. From various sources, I assume HD 4550 is very good at post-processing (as good as HD 4600 series).

Thats too bad. Passive low profile versions of the 4550 are forthcoming, yes?

Passive low profile versions of the 4550 are forthcoming, yes?
AFAIK, there is no passive low-profile 4550 yet.

Thats too bad. Passive low profile versions of the 4550 are forthcoming, yes?

I would expect a passive full height card, but passive and low profile on a card that started out with a fan and full height is a bit unrealistic.

As far as the HDMI connector, the cards with the DVI connectors work fine as well (mine included the DVI-HDMI connector). I bought a 15' DVI-HDMI cable from monoprice and it works perfect with my HSI HD4670 card. So I am connected DVI on HTPC side and HDMI on TV side. I only use receiver for sound though... Now if you already have all your cables then I understand not wanted to spend more, but if you don't you can still get one of these so there is not an extra connector sticking out of the back of your HTPC. Just a thought.

Unless ATI has changed things with the 4000 series cards, you need to use an actual ATI DVI-HDMI connector when driving an HDTV through its HDMI input. If you don't, the video card will not drive the TV correctly, sending RGB 0-255 to the HDTV instead of YCbCr (16-235).

What you will notice with your setup is the image is overly contrast. Dark scenes will be extremely dark (or black), and bright scenes will be overly bright (even clipping at full brightness/full color saturation).

The issue is all HDTVs (by default) are designed to operate using the BT.709 colorspace (grey scale range of 16-235) when displaying HD content and all PC monitors are designed to operate using the sRGB colorspace (grey scale range of 0-255). ATI cards use the sRGB (PC) colorspace for output when the ATI HDMI "dongle" is not used.

To fix the problem you can do one of the following:

Install the HDMI dongle and purchase/install an HDMI cable.
If your HDTV has this option, go into the setup menu and tell it to operate in sRGB mode by enabling (something like) "full range RGB", "RGB 0-255", "PC mode", "sRGB", etc.
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the overall (non-AVIVO) brightness to +31 and decrease the overall contrast to 73%. This will essentially compress the 0-255 brightness range into the required 16-235 range. Unfortunately some software (such as PowerDVD Ultra running in Vista) overrides this and you will also need to fine tune that software's brightness and contrast settings (for PDVD Ultra 7.3 with Vista, setting a brightness of +19 and contrast of -5 works).
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the AVIVO brightness to +16 and decrease the AVIVO contrast to 86%. Note this causes video rendered by hardware acceleration (DXVA) to remain with a 16-235 range but it does not correct photographs, desktop, games or PC applications. The (minor, IMO) advantage to using this method is BTB and WTW is retained (no other method, not even #1 retains BTB and WTW information).


Another point to consider with ATI cards is by default they expect all SD video to use the sRGB (PC or Internet standard) colorspace (HD is correctly assumed to be BT.709). SD video as far as TV, DVD, TV Tuner cards, etc. actually uses the BT.601 colorspace (essentially a 16-235 grey level range).

My personal preference is still ATI for an HTPC, but you need to tell the video card that your SD video is in the BT.601 colorspace by adding the registry entry "UseBT601CSC" and setting it to "1". Do a search here for more information. A tool called "DXVAChecker" makes the job easy for setting this registry entry (right click on Video Acceleration Settings). The latest version can be downloaded from http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/dxvac/DXVAChecker_1.9.0.0.zip.

Note that while us HTPC enthusiasts consider this to be a bug (I do), ATI doesn't seem to. I suspect since "standard" PC video (game video captures or PC video samples, etc.) uses the sRGB colorspace and since the majority of ATI owners use their cards for video games and PC applications that defaulting to sRGB makes sense to them for SD video. Unfortunately this means that absolutely ALL ATI video card owners who want to play SD TV or DVD on their PC need to add this registry entry if they want it to look "right".

I've built lots of machines, none with water cooling, none in small form factor or HTPC. I'm not completely sure what I'm getting into.

Here's what I'd like ideally: something that can put out 1080p no problem, that uses component output (or HDMI + optical audio - I don't have an HDMI receiver yet), that isn't loud or hot, isn't HUGE, that hopefully can be built for under $600.

A friend suggested using a water cooling system (one without a reservoir). I don't even know where to start, don't know what could provide both HDMI and Component and Optical (audio) options for me... any help is appreciated.

Here's what I'd like ideally: something that can put out 1080p no problem, that uses component output (or HDMI + optical audio - I don't have an HDMI receiver yet), that isn't loud or hot, isn't HUGE, that hopefully can be built for under $600.

A friend suggested using a water cooling system (one without a reservoir). I don't even know where to start, don't know what could provide both HDMI and Component and Optical (audio) options for me... any help is appreciated.
Start with my recommendation of MicroATX System - Low-End - AMD/AMD (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#MATXSysLowEnd). :) You don't need water cooling (power consumption of the total system at video playback is only 80W).

First off, great guide. Second, my HTPC recently died and I'm looking to prepare for HD with new parts. I use it as a combination storage server and HTPC (absolutely no games) so I'd prefer to go with an ATX system for SATA connections/expansion slots (have the Zalman HD160). My current receiver doesn't have HDMI, but I'm looking into upgrading that within the next year. I'm looking for a system that can, if possible, handle HDMI purely onboard with the ability to handle most, if not all?, HD codecs. I'd prefer not to have a video card because of thermals/price.

What ATX motherboard and CPU can get the job done for me? Is there something exactly like the mATX Intel/Intel low end you have listed that can be found in ATX form? Perhaps exactly like the ASUS P5Q-EM mATX, but with more PCI slots maybe or something?

Sorry for the 20 questions. Sounds like you guys know best! Thanks.

So your system is

- GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6
- Radeon HD 4870 X2
- Windows Vista 64 SP1

right? Download and install the following software in the order below (burn your own driver CD; unzip drivers before burning).

- Windows Vista 64 SP1
- Intel INF Update Utility - ZIP Format (http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=816&OSFullName=Windows+Vista*&lang=eng&strOSs=163&submit=Go!) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)
- Intel Matrix Storage Manager (http://downloadcenter.intel.com/filter_results.aspx?strTypes=all&ProductID=2101&OSFullName=Windows+Vista*&lang=eng&strOSs=163&submit=Go!) (not necessary unless you do RAID)
- Realtek RTL8111C driver - Auto installation program (support Vista 64 and Vista) (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=5&PFid=5&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false#RTL8111B/RTL8168B/RTL8111/RTL8168/RTL8111C) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)
- Realtek High Definition Audio Codecs driver - Vista Driver (32/64 bits) Driver only (ZIP file) (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)
- ATI graphis driver and Catalyst Software (http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=vista64/common-vista64)
- Realtek ATI HDMI Audio Device (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=24&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false) (unzip it; click setup.exe to install it)

Choose "Realtek HDMI output" in the Sound dialog box. Use the bundled DVI-HDMI adapter. Configure your receiver correctly (which receiver do you use?).
Thank you renethx,

you are right that is what I have. I reinstall Vista last night and it went without a problem, I install the programs in the order that you recommended, I immediately had some issues with the Intel INF Update Utility installation, in the final stage of the installation, when it try to verified my hardware, it was looking for a tuner card that I do not have, which cause it to freeze, I left it alone for 15 minutes and it stay searching for a tuner card. Finally I had to force the program to close and restart Vista, I did this a number of times with the same results, because this problem came at the last stage, I took a gamble and hoped all the components where install, so proceeded installing with the remainder of the programs, they all seem to install OK, but it disable my internet so I have to go back to the Gigabyte installation dist to install the network drivers.

I took a deep breath and try to run a movie, at first I try using only Windows player and I got a picture but no audio, next I try to run it using Windows Media Player and it worked, but I notice that the system is really unstable, I had a number of memory dumps where Windows crash, also starting up windows, it takes a lot longer than I ever experience before. Any feedback will be most helpful.

Do I need additional software so I can run movies straight from windows, I want to go to my external HD and access a movie and play it. I know I have a lot to learn about Windows Media Player and I will start to learn this weekend.

I want to thank you once again for all your help, I am really excited to learn and play with all the new things I can do with my system, by the way my receiver is an Anthem D2, love that system.

Fred

First off, great guide. Second, my HTPC recently died and I'm looking to prepare for HD with new parts. I use it as a combination storage server and HTPC (absolutely no games) so I'd prefer to go with an ATX system for SATA connections/expansion slots (have the Zalman HD160). My current receiver doesn't have HDMI, but I'm looking into upgrading that within the next year. I'm looking for a system that can, if possible, handle HDMI purely onboard with the ability to handle most, if not all?, HD codecs. I'd prefer not to have a video card because of thermals/price.

What ATX motherboard and CPU can get the job done for me? Is there something exactly like the mATX Intel/Intel low end you have listed that can be found in ATX form? Perhaps exactly like the ASUS P5Q-EM mATX, but with more PCI slots maybe or something?
Intel G45 or GeForce 9300 chipset is good for your purpose. Unfortunately there are not so many ATX mbs.

- Intel G45: Supermicro C2SEA (requires DDR3 SDRAM), $130
- GeForce 9300: ECS GF9300T-A (should be available soon)

Processor: Pentium Dual-Core E5200, Core 2 Duo E8500/E8400/E7400/E7300/E7200 (depending on your budget).

...I only have a CD for original XP Pro also and just tried a temporary install with a 1 TB drive, but upon finding out the 137GB limitation decided not to and went back to Ubuntu Linux.

HD, can you tell me more about your experiences using Ubuntu? What file formats (if any) have playback difficulties, output resolution/format (eg: DVI/HDMI/HDMI+audio...), any problems with suspend/sleep modes, other little "gotchas"?

TIA!

-Snoop

Video hardware acceleration of all but the most basic kind (motion compensation) is missing from Linux right now across all graphics providers. Intel's got a roadmap on implementing HW support, but pinning the guys down on dates is ultimately very difficult.
Ok, Fair enough. With all the proprietary codecs out there, what formats aren't supported? Also, do all the HD outputs still work properly (HDMI, S/PDIF, etc)?

Any Core 2 Quad. A high-end Core 2 Duo (2.67GHz or 3GHz) can also handle anything except the most egregious Blu-ray bitrates of H.264... and even then, if the bitstream is not encrypted it can probably still pull it off.

Ok. I'm trying to put together as low-power (and hence, low heat) system as possible. ;)

Thanks!

-Snoop

I would like to put a plug in the for scythe nija mini - I installed it the other day on the Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3L with an E8400 in a standard size desktop case and there is plenty of room. Granted mounting was a pain in the a$$ (probably because I tried to do it with all the components still in place) - but the unit itself has a nice clearance to get above the ram sticks, resistors, and power connectors that are near it. Make no mistake.. its not mini - its a hoss especially when compared with the stock intel cooler. I am currently running it fanless - see below for my temps. All in all good purchase!

Questions - how much thermal goop should be on there? Should it be a "razor" thin amount or should it be thicker - kinda like the thickness of cardstock?

What are others seeing for temperature readings? I have a E8400 running at stock speeds - under idle to normal load (under 30% cpu utilization) the temps range from 36c to 46c - under full load for 10 minutes temps get up to 55c and by 20 minutes the temps approach 60c - all of this with no fan. The fan (which is loud at full blast) brings the temps down about 3c-6c and will hold full load at 59c for 35 minutes. If I undervolt it using a fan controller - it gets very quiet, but doesn't really do a whole heck of a lot for the temps.

Questions - how much thermal goop should be on there? Should it be a "razor" thin amount or should it be thicker - kinda like the thickness of cardstock?

What are others seeing for temperature readings? I have a E8400 running at stock speeds - under idle to normal load (under 30% cpu utilization) the temps range from 36c to 46c - under full load for 10 minutes temps get up to 55c and by 20 minutes the temps approach 60c - all of this with no fan. The fan (which is loud at full blast) brings the temps down about 3c-6c and will hold full load at 59c for 35 minutes. If I undervolt it using a fan controller - it gets very quiet, but doesn't really do a whole heck of a lot for the temps.
Instruction of Arctic Silver says, "Put a very thin line in close proximity to the center of the heatspreader as depicted in red, like the photo at left."

I think your temperature is pretty normal.

Ok, Fair enough. With all the proprietary codecs out there, what formats aren't supported? Also, do all the HD outputs still work properly (HDMI, S/PDIF, etc)?


In Linux, damn near everything is "supported" with various combinations of software (libavcodec is pretty broad). In terms of what HW acceleration is supported, only XvMC (motion compensation) is entertained right now, and I believe that's generally only in MPEG2.


Ok. I'm trying to put together as low-power (and hence, low heat) system as possible. ;)

Thanks!

-Snoop

I'd grab a 2.67GHz, preferably the E7xxx or E8xxx series (the E6xxx series is great, too, if you get a bargain, but at slightly elevated power draw).

Hi Renethx-great work on this thread. Amazing. I have a 4 yr old htpc,xp, amd xp,1 gig ram, radeon video, haupage tv card, use it mostly for watching tv, but want to be able to see higher def on the flat screen (samsung dlp). So what type of upgrade would be necessary for 1080, blue ray and the like? Thanks
Jim

Hi Renethx-great work on this thread. Amazing. I have a 4 yr old htpc,xp, amd xp,1 gig ram, radeon video, haupage tv card, use it mostly for watching tv, but want to be able to see higher def on the flat screen (samsung dlp). So what type of upgrade would be necessary for 1080, blue ray and the like? Thanks
Jim
Assuming your mb has PCIe slots, the simplest upgrade is buy a new graphics card, for example, Radeon HD 4550 or HD 4670.

I have some more questions.

I was half ass curious about turning a HTPC into a home made DVR.... or even just a tuner.
I called my cable company, and they said that i would have to have one of their boxes in order to actually receive the encrypted signal that they send. They said that they send the signal to the address, and ALSO to the device. In my case right now its a Pace DVR.
Would this mean that i would not be able to get a TV Tuner to work on a HTPC? Does anyone have any experience with what im talking about?


I was also curious about blu-ray drives. Is there a performance increase (or maybe even a decrease) between a 6x and 4x drive?


Last question, i usually shop at newegg, but i didnt find a standalone IR receiver. Any suggestions on that? I have an IR receiver from my p5w dh deluxe... i wonder if i could use that with the Harmony 880?

Thanks again for your time.

I called my cable company, and they said that i would have to have one of their boxes in order to actually receive the encrypted signal that they send. They said that they send the signal to the address, and ALSO to the device. In my case right now its a Pace DVR.
Would this mean that i would not be able to get a TV Tuner to work on a HTPC?

Last question, i usually shop at newegg, but i didnt find a standalone IR receiver. Any suggestions on that? I have an IR receiver from my p5w dh deluxe... i wonder if i could use that with the Harmony 880?
Read TV Tuner (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972#TV).

Microsoft Remote Control and Receiver for Media Center PC with Windows is cheap.

Read TV Tuner (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972#TV).

Microsoft Remote Control and Receiver for Media Center PC with Windows is cheap.

Ok so basically to do what i would like to accomplish i would need the HD PVR from Hauppauge?

What about making one of the logitech harmonys (because thats what im looking at getting) work with the HTPC? Are you saying just buy the Microsoft remote control with receiver to use the receiver only??

Ok so basically to do what i would like to accomplish i would need the HD PVR from Hauppauge?

What about making one of the logitech harmonys (because thats what im looking at getting) work with the HTPC? Are you saying just buy the Microsoft remote control with receiver to use the receiver only??
Or R5000.

Yes, the MS receiver works fine with Harmony. Several HTPC cases have a built-in IR receiver (works with Harmony). If the case has an exposed external 3.5" driver bay, you can use Antec Multimedia Station Basic.

Thanks for the input renethx. Earlier tonight I got an e-mail from eVGA introducing their new board - the nforce 730i which has the GeForce 9300 chipset. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like the perfect board for my purposes (except I have to wait a little while for it to be released).

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=113-YW-E115-TR
http://www.evga.com/articles/00435/

Does this board meet all of my requirements?

Also, a side question that I wanted to ask just for confidence sake, the boards we're talking about can do bitstreaming and all the other HD audio stuff or whatever? I just want to make sure I'm not loosing out on any benefits by doing onboard HDMI. Thanks again for all the help! So informative and pleasant.

Earlier tonight I got an e-mail from eVGA introducing their new board - the nforce 730i which has the GeForce 9300 chipset. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this looks like the perfect board for my purposes (except I have to wait a little while for it to be released).

http://www.evga.com/products/moreinfo.asp?pn=113-YW-E115-TR
http://www.evga.com/articles/00435/

Does this board meet all of my requirements?

Also, a side question that I wanted to ask just for confidence sake, the boards we're talking about can do bitstreaming and all the other HD audio stuff or whatever? I just want to make sure I'm not loosing out on any benefits by doing onboard HDMI.
Yep, EVGA should be another good choice. But so far nobody has hand-on experience with that board.

Currently there is no solution for TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bitstreaming in PC (except the upcoming [pricey ~$250] ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3/Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 sound cards). The best solution is multichannel LPCM and GeForce 9300 supports it.

To Renex sp--Unfortunately my motherbd does not have PCI e slots. It seems like all the good video cards require that interface. Any other suggestions? I am willing to go for a new motherbd, but would rather not thanks all

Unless ATI has changed things with the 4000 series cards, you need to use an actual ATI DVI-HDMI connector when driving an HDTV through its HDMI input. If you don't, the video card will not drive the TV correctly, sending RGB 0-255 to the HDTV instead of YCbCr (16-235).

What you will notice with your setup is the image is overly contrast. Dark scenes will be extremely dark (or black), and bright scenes will be overly bright (even clipping at full brightness/full color saturation).

The issue is all HDTVs (by default) are designed to operate using the BT.709 colorspace (grey scale range of 16-235) when displaying HD content and all PC monitors are designed to operate using the sRGB colorspace (grey scale range of 0-255). ATI cards use the sRGB (PC) colorspace for output when the ATI HDMI "dongle" is not used.

To fix the problem you can do one of the following:

Install the HDMI dongle and purchase/install an HDMI cable.
If your HDTV has this option, go into the setup menu and tell it to operate in sRGB mode by enabling (something like) "full range RGB", "RGB 0-255", "PC mode", "sRGB", etc.
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the overall (non-AVIVO) brightness to +31 and decrease the overall contrast to 73%. This will essentially compress the 0-255 brightness range into the required 16-235 range. Unfortunately some software (such as PowerDVD Ultra running in Vista) overrides this and you will also need to fine tune that software's brightness and contrast settings (for PDVD Ultra 7.3 with Vista, setting a brightness of +19 and contrast of -5 works).
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the AVIVO brightness to +16 and decrease the AVIVO contrast to 86%. Note this causes video rendered by hardware acceleration (DXVA) to remain with a 16-235 range but it does not correct photographs, desktop, games or PC applications. The (minor, IMO) advantage to using this method is BTB and WTW is retained (no other method, not even #1 retains BTB and WTW information).


Another point to consider with ATI cards is by default they expect all SD video to use the sRGB (PC or Internet standard) colorspace (HD is correctly assumed to be BT.709). SD video as far as TV, DVD, TV Tuner cards, etc. actually uses the BT.601 colorspace (essentially a 16-235 grey level range).

My personal preference is still ATI for an HTPC, but you need to tell the video card that your SD video is in the BT.601 colorspace by adding the registry entry "UseBT601CSC" and setting it to "1". Do a search here for more information. A tool called "DXVAChecker" makes the job easy for setting this registry entry (right click on Video Acceleration Settings). The latest version can be downloaded from http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/dxvac/DXVAChecker_1.9.0.0.zip.

Note that while us HTPC enthusiasts consider this to be a bug (I do), ATI doesn't seem to. I suspect since "standard" PC video (game video captures or PC video samples, etc.) uses the sRGB colorspace and since the majority of ATI owners use their cards for video games and PC applications that defaulting to sRGB makes sense to them for SD video. Unfortunately this means that absolutely ALL ATI video card owners who want to play SD TV or DVD on their PC need to add this registry entry if they want it to look "right".


If ATI VID sends out sRGB signal and if I set my TV to receive 'FUll RGB', shouldn't it enough to match the signal? What does the dongle do in this case?

To Renex sp--Unfortunately my motherbd does not have PCI e slots. It seems like all the good video cards require that interface. Any other suggestions? I am willing to go for a new motherbd, but would rather not thanks all
Then you can choose a Radon HD 3450/3650 AGP card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2000380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=696%3A9639&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A36593&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A36592). But audio is limited to stereo LPCM, Dolby Digital and DTS through S/PDIF of your motherboard (or multichannel analog).

Or build a new system. In this case you can't recycle your components (except HDD). Check my recommendations at page 85.

Okay, I know that this issue has been dealt with many times, but I'm still struggling. (And I'm a newbie at this!) I'm about to put together my first HTPC, and I've used this forum a lot to help me.

1 x Hauppauge - WinTV-HVR-1600 Hybrid Video Recorder
1 x Asus - M3A w/ DualDDR2 1066, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, PCI-E 2.0
1 x AMD - Phenom™ X4 9950 Black Edition Quad-Core 2.6GHz w/ 4MB Cache
1 x Silverstone - LC20 HTPC / Multimedia Server Chassis, Black
1 x LG - Super Multi Blue Blu-ray / HD DVD-ROM Drive, SATA, Black
1 x HIS - Radeon HD 4870 512MB GDDR5 PCI-E w/ Dual DVI, HDTV-Out, HDMI

Here's my problem. I want great sound more than video. That is, I want the Blu ray HD formats. And I'd like that over HDMI. Can I do this with what I have? Do I need the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 card, or something like it, or will everything work through the on-board audio and video card?

I know renethx said

Currently there is no solution for TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bitstreaming in PC (except the upcoming [pricey ~$250] ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3/Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 sound cards). The best solution is multichannel LPCM and GeForce 9300 supports it."

so i guess maybe I don't get what multichannel LPCM is, and if it will work for what I want.

And what's with ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 having a video processor? Does this mean I don't need a graphics card? That doesn't seem right.

Maybe somebody could just point me to the right thread.
I can't spend more than $2000 on this, and it's already getting close...

<<< I just discovered the separate 9300/9400 thread ... but this is near Nirvana for us HTPC enthusiasts, what a LONG wait >>>


Finally, the new Nvidia GeForce 9300/9400 are announced - that we have been waiting for 6 months - Renethx, what do you think?

http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/motherboards/1827_24.html

"Conclusion ... Of the three GeForce 9300 boards I’ve tested the ASUS has the most connections for the integrated graphics including HDMI, DVI, DisplayPort and VGA. This gives the purchaser of this board the widest possible array of monitor connections and is perfect for the Home Theater PC user that has a new HDTV with DisplayPort or DVI or HDMI."

Everything we had hoped for - including 1394 onboard - or so it appears!!

Another article with side-by-side feature comparison of the 9300 and 9400

http://hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA-GeForce-9300-and-9400-Motherboard-GPUs/

It looks like heaven for a small form factor HTPC - just in time for the holidays?

http://www.motherboards.org/images/reviews/motherboards/1827_p3_6.jpg?
http://hothardware.com/articleimages/Item1224/gf-9300-diag.jpg
http://www.trustedreviews.com/images/article/inline/9036-box.jpg

here's the spec of my old rig:
- AMD Sempron 2800 @ 2.0GHz (S754)
- 1GB DDR400 RAM
- Biostar 6100-M7 motherboard (nv6100/410)
- Onboard 6100 GPU

I'm planning to make it into an HTPC. If i were to get an ATI Radeon HD3450, will it improve 720P video playback? I'm expecting DXVA to do magic by off-loading the CPU workload.

(I have no intention to play BD video. I'm using it to play H264 MKV)

Here's my problem. I want great sound more than video. That is, I want the Blu ray HD formats. And I'd like that over HDMI. Can I do this with what I have? Do I need the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 card, or something like it, or will everything work through the on-board audio and video card?


And what's with ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 having a video processor? Does this mean I don't need a graphics card? That doesn't seem right.
A short answer is, forget about Xonar HDAV1.3 (at least until all the main bugs are fixed) and stay with your planned system that offers great 7.1 LPCM sounds (lossless, of course). *Official* HTPC HDMI HD Audio + Video Roundup Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1055454) gives you a good overview of the current status of HDMI video/audio solutions.

BTW if you don't play games, you should go with HD 4670 instead, that runs much cooler with identical video playback performance.

here's the spec of my old rig:
- AMD Sempron 2800 @ 2.0GHz (S754)
- 1GB DDR400 RAM
- Biostar 6100-M7 motherboard (nv6100/410)
- Onboard 6100 GPU

I'm planning to make it into an HTPC. If i were to get an ATI Radeon HD3450, will it improve 720P video playback? I'm expecting DXVA to do magic by off-loading the CPU workload.

(I have no intention to play BD video. I'm using it to play H264 MKV)
Yes, HD 3450 (or HD 4350) is a right choice for your purpose. But you may need to fix 720p x264 files to play with hardware acceleration. Read x264 Encoding Options for Hardware Compatibility & DXVA (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972503&highlight=720p).

Hi Renethx,

Just wondering how your HD 4550 testing is going?

Hi Guys,
Im sure this has been asked before and im sorry but i cant find an exact answer to my quandry :) I'm looking to build a small silent and low powered htpc that will play 1080i files and also 1080p if possible (something i can keep on 24/7 in my bedroom) im swayed towards the lowend intel/intel but will this be beefy enough to run 1080i/p. Im also considering the popcorn a110 not sure if this is powerful enough either. If there is a better solution id be glad to hear it. Any suggestions greatly appriciated :D

how your HD 4550 testing is going?
It's going on, stay tuned.

I'm looking to build a small silent and low powered htpc that will play 1080i files and also 1080p if possible (something i can keep on 24/7 in my bedroom) im swayed towards the lowend intel/intel but will this be beefy enough to run 1080i/p.
Intel/Intel is fine, but Intel/NVIDIA is more powerful.

Intel/Intel is fine, but Intel/NVIDIA is more powerful.

Hey, thanks for your quick reply. Im trying to keep this htpc passivily cooled so is there a fan on the intel/nvidia or can it be made passive?

Great thread!

I will probably build something like the mid-range system. I have a couple of questions.

1. I want a silent pc, therefor no fans on the graphic-card. Can you recommend some passive-cooled cards that fit in a Antec Fusion?

2. is there any big differences between the ASUS P5Q-EM G45 and the upcomming Asus P5N7A-VM? Is it worth waiting for and why?

3. If i only use the HTPC for watching films, maybe i dont need a separate graphics-card, how good are the built in ones? Do they playback 1080p flawlessly and also how long distance DVI:s can they handle (I know some lower quality cards cant handle 10m DVI)?

4. How many S-ATA power connectors does the 430W Antec PSU have? I figure i need 2 for HDDs and 1 for BluRay. Do i need to buy a converter?

5. Do you recommend buying the Antec Fusion without PSU, which PSU should i buy instead?

BR,
Rob

Hey, thanks for your quick reply. Im trying to keep this htpc passivily cooled so is there a fan on the intel/nvidia or can it be made passive?
If you are going with passive cooling for CPU, I recommend:

- Scythe Ninja Mini
- Antec NSK2480 or Fusion Remote.

Perhaps passive cooling is difficult in a low-profile case.

Great thread!

I will probably build something like the mid-range system. I have a couple of questions.

1. I want a silent pc, therefor no fans on the graphic-card. Can you recommend some passive-cooled cards that fit in a Antec Fusion?

2. is there any big differences between the ASUS P5Q-EM G45 and the upcomming Asus P5N7A-VM? Is it worth waiting for and why?

3. If i only use the HTPC for watching films, maybe i dont need a separate graphics-card, how good are the built in ones? Do they playback 1080p flawlessly and also how long distance DVI:s can they handle (I know some lower quality cards cant handle 10m DVI)?

4. How many S-ATA power connectors does the 430W Antec PSU have? I figure i need 2 for HDDs and 1 for BluRay. Do i need to buy a converter?

5. Do you recommend buying the Antec Fusion without PSU, which PSU should i buy instead?
If you are going to use the IGP, then I recommend Asus P5N7A-VM. Otherwise, either board should be fine. There is no fanless HD 4650/4670 card that fits in Fusion. Check my part list for PSU that has six SATA power connectors. I thinks the max length of DVI cable for 1080 is around 15 feet (4.5 m).

BTW mATX-midrange-Intel/NVIDIA has not been updated yet. You can choose P5N7A-VM with iGPU instead of I-N73HD and GeForce 9500 GT.

If you are going to use the IGP, then I recommend Asus P5N7A-VM. Otherwise, either board should be fine. There is no fanless HD 4650/4670 card that fits in Fusion. Check my part list for PSU that has at least four SATA power connectors (if you need more, you can use 4-pin to SATA power adapters). I thinks the max length of DVI cable for 1080 is around 15 feet (4.5 m).

BTW mATX-midrange-Intel/NVIDIA has not been updated yet. You can choose P5N7A-VM with iGPU instead of I-N73HD and GeForce 9500 GT.

Ok, so maybe i should wait then for the P5N7A-VM. Cheaper and more simple. Are you sure the Ninja fits with this new mobo?

Ok, so maybe i should wait then for the P5N7A-VM. Cheaper and more simple. Are you sure the Ninja fits with this new mobo?
Yes, Ninja Mini fits fine with P5N7A-VM.

Then you can choose a "]Radon HD 3450/3650 AGP card[/URL]. But audio is limited to stereo LPCM, Dolby Digital and DTS through S/PDIF of your motherboard (or multichannel analog).

Or build a new system. In this case you can't recycle your components (except HDD). Check my recommendations at page 85.


Thanks Renethx
so how about the mid range amd system as a new build? I can use my silverstone case, hdd and psu.
AMD/AMD

System

* CPU: Phenom X3 8750 Black Edition HD875ZWCGHBOX 2.4GHz Socket AM2+, $134.
* CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90, $35 (after rebate).
* Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-DS4H AMD 790GX chipset ATX, $129.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $34.
* Graphics Card: HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670, $80 (after rebate).
*.
thanks so much for your help
Jim

Thanks Renethx
so how about the mid range amd system as a new build? I can use my silverstone case, hdd and psu.
AMD/AMD
That will be a great system. :)

That will be a great system. :)

Thanks Renethx--Some sites have said that the GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-DS4H is overkill if you also are installing a discrete video card? Is that correct, or am I gaining something with this board ,that is, is it worth the extra money on the board ?
thanks
J

Great thread, my brain is turning to mush trying to absorb all the info! I started tossing around the media PC idea recently here's what I have got and what I was thinking. I am not super PC literate so let me know if you need more info.

I have a Dell Optiplex GX260 with 2GB of RAM and an Intel 2.4G processor. Can I just get a HD tuner card, a big hard drive and be ready to go? I'll be running XP so I guess I would need one of those opensource programs for recording and programing. How do i watch one show a record multiple of others? Do i need a card for each channel I would like to record at once? For example, if I wanted to watch one show and record two others do I need three cards? I plan on hooking this up to regular cable, not pulling HD out of the air. Having an Xbox would not effect the system at all right? I just change the inputs on the tv to switch between the two. Is a media PC simple enough for wife and kids to use? We already have DVRs so they are familiar with recording shows and such.

So many questions, if some are answered else where, please point to the right forums and I will continue my research there.

Thanks,
Matt

Thanks Renethx--Some sites have said that the GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-DS4H is overkill if you also are installing a discrete video card? Is that correct, or am I gaining something with this board ,that is, is it worth the extra money on the board ?
For the basic video playback task, my recommendation of low-end system-ATX-AMD/AMD (or Intel/Intel) is enough. The mid-range system aims at more. The main differences between the two systems are:

- CPU is better in decoding HD contents in case HA of GPU does not work. It is much better for transcoding media files.
- GPU has more 3D power.
- Motherboard has an extra PCIe x16 slot (at x8) that can be used for RAID controller card, CrossFire, etc. It supports 140W CPU and is better in overclocking. It supports RAID 5. Onboard codec supports Dolby Home Theater (for S/PDIF users, however).

You can mix components from each system depending on your needs. (For example, someone may want to add Radeon HD 4870 in the mid-range system for better gaming.)

ReneTHX - you're the man! I don't know how you find time to keep on top of all this.

Question - platform choice for component output + BD + light gaming?
AMD / AMD or Intel / nVidia? Most of the time I'll watch downloaded TV shows, the occasional Blu-Ray movie, and possibly some gaming this winter (depending whether I exercise the discipline to keep my inner nerd in check ;) ). I'll also rip CDs to FLAC and transcoding my DVD collection.

Initially I wanted to support AMD but Intel CPUs appear to be mopping the floor with AMD. It's hard to say no to an Intel E8400 Core Duo w/ 6 MB cache compared to an AMD 5400 w/ 3 MB cache - both rated at 65 W. They're different price points but when you consider the need for an aftermarket AMD CPU cooler then it brings the prices closer. You can run Intel stock and still achieve a reasonably quiet set-up as I understand from friends and research.

[Edit - if nVidia then I'm waiting for the new 9300 series to hit shelves. Would this hardware choice permit lossless bitstream 7.1 digital audio in the future when software catches up? Thanks.]

Also, I have an allergic reaction to ATI (AMD) drivers whereas nVidia have historically been on the ball. I don't know if this is true anymore? nVidia just released 178.24 WHQL drivers so I hope this helps with component output and future HDMI compatibility. The upshot to running nVidia is the ASUS 9600GT passive card. It's silent and outperforms ATI 4670 in games but I don't know if it works without issues for home theater.

Can I expect fewer home theater hassles going with AMD / AMD versus Intel / nVidia? I'll run either Windows XP Media Center or XP Pro. Component video output direct to Sony XBR 36" 4:3 CRT + HDMI to Onkyo TX-SR805. I can live with a bit less performance if it means I have fewer hassles down the road.

Thanks!

Dave.

Thanks so much for the help. I'm going to spring for that AMD system you suggested. I'll probably go with the new Antec case with the IR receiver (the one in the description is no longer sold by Newegg) and a Blu-Ray reader (they have them on newegg for under $100)

renethx,

Do you think that 9300/9400 is good for overclocking? The reason I ask for it is because I have C2D E4300 and tried to use 9300/9400 for HD playback. Is it powerful enough for E4300 to play HD with the help of 9300/9400 even without overclocking?

Thanks!

Building a new HTPC with key low end recommended ATX/Intel components per page 85:
Intel E5200
Gigabyte mobo DS3L
OCZ platinum PC2 6400 2x1GB RAM 4-4-4-15 1.8v
Coolmax 480W fanless PSU
Cheap tower case (worked ok for my last HTPC)
Gemini II cooler (huge but free), with two 120mm fans and one more in the case
ATI HD 4670 Iceq
Win XP SP2

Question #1 is will I benefit from more RAM? Current rig seems fine, except I could use more CPU speed. I do little gaming, mostly playing ripped blu-ray HD 1080i/p material. I do use quickpar almost every day.

I found these RAM modules to complement my OCZ:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227139
and these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-SlickDeals&cm_mmc=AFC-SlickDeals-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&Item=N82E16820145034

Question #2 I use a a 5.25" drive bay mounted fan controller in my current rig. With the new mobo (DS3L) can I use the on board controller to control the three fans in unison, without a drive bay mounted fan controller?

Hi Guys,
Im sure this has been asked before and im sorry but i cant find an exact answer to my quandry :) I'm looking to build a small silent and low powered htpc that will play 1080i files and also 1080p if possible (something i can keep on 24/7 in my bedroom) im swayed towards the lowend intel/intel but will this be beefy enough to run 1080i/p. Im also considering the popcorn a110 not sure if this is powerful enough either. If there is a better solution id be glad to hear it. Any suggestions greatly appriciated :D

You should look into the new GeForce 9300 series boards. They have decently low power usage, have passive heatsinks on the chip and are capable of handling 24p on the IGP. I'm in the same boat as you. It will be on alot and needs to be quiet and capable of handling top HD performance. Check out the 9300/9400 thread.

Great thread, my brain is turning to mush trying to absorb all the info! I started tossing around the media PC idea recently here's what I have got and what I was thinking. I am not super PC literate so let me know if you need more info.

I have a Dell Optiplex GX260 with 2GB of RAM and an Intel 2.4G processor. Can I just get a HD tuner card, a big hard drive and be ready to go? I'll be running XP so I guess I would need one of those opensource programs for recording and programing. How do i watch one show a record multiple of others? Do i need a card for each channel I would like to record at once? For example, if I wanted to watch one show and record two others do I need three cards? I plan on hooking this up to regular cable, not pulling HD out of the air. Having an Xbox would not effect the system at all right? I just change the inputs on the tv to switch between the two. Is a media PC simple enough for wife and kids to use? We already have DVRs so they are familiar with recording shows and such. Each tuner card may have its own thread in this forum (HDHomeRun is here: HDHomeRun - Dual ATSC or QAM to Ethernet Box (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731457))

So many questions, if some are answered else where, please point to the right forums and I will continue my research there.
Basically you can attach a TV tuner(s) (PCI, USB, or Network) and you are ready to go (although I am not sure if your hardware is good enough for HDTV). You have to use the bundled application or a third-party player (e.g. MediaPortal, VLC). Some tuner are dual digital (e.g. HDHomeRun), some are analog+digital. Some tuner support QAM, some not. So you need to choose it carefully. You will need multiple tuners (need not to be the same model) to record/watch multiple TV shows simultaneously, for example, watch one show and record two others requires three tuners (but not necessarily three cards). The HDTV Tuner Information Site (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/index.html) is a good place to learn more. Each tuner may have its own thread in this forum (HDHomeRun is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=731457)).

Question - platform choice for component output + BD + light gaming?
AMD / AMD or Intel / nVidia? Most of the time I'll watch downloaded TV shows, the occasional Blu-Ray movie, and possibly some gaming this winter (depending whether I exercise the discipline to keep my inner nerd in check ;) ). I'll also rip CDs to FLAC and transcoding my DVD collection.

Initially I wanted to support AMD but Intel CPUs appear to be mopping the floor with AMD. It's hard to say no to an Intel E8400 Core Duo w/ 6 MB cache compared to an AMD 5400 w/ 3 MB cache - both rated at 65 W. They're different price points but when you consider the need for an aftermarket AMD CPU cooler then it brings the prices closer. You can run Intel stock and still achieve a reasonably quiet set-up as I understand from friends and research.

[Edit - if nVidia then I'm waiting for the new 9300 series to hit shelves. Would this hardware choice permit lossless bitstream 7.1 digital audio in the future when software catches up? Thanks.]

Also, I have an allergic reaction to ATI (AMD) drivers whereas nVidia have historically been on the ball. I don't know if this is true anymore? nVidia just released 178.24 WHQL drivers so I hope this helps with component output and future HDMI compatibility. The upshot to running nVidia is the ASUS 9600GT passive card. It's silent and outperforms ATI 4670 in games but I don't know if it works without issues for home theater.

Can I expect fewer home theater hassles going with AMD / AMD versus Intel / nVidia? I'll run either Windows XP Media Center or XP Pro. Component video output direct to Sony XBR 36" 4:3 CRT + HDMI to Onkyo TX-SR805.
If you want HDMI audio, then you have to go with Radeon HD 4xxx. With 9600 GT, you are limited to S/PDIF. ATX Mid-range - Intel/Intel is a good choice. You can use E8400. As this particular HD 4670 model does not come with a component video cable, you have to buy it.

renethx,

Do you think that 9300/9400 is good for overclocking? The reason I ask for it is because I have C2D E4300 and tried to use 9300/9400 for HD playback. Is it powerful enough for E4300 to play HD with the help of 9300/9400 even without overclocking?
Surely 9300/9400 overclocks very well. But E4300+GeForce 9300/9400 has enough power for BD playback. The only case you need to overclock E4300 is that hardware acceleration does not work (for certain MKV files).

Building a new HTPC with key low end recommended ATX/Intel components per page 85:
Intel E5200
Gigabyte mobo DS3L
OCZ platinum PC2 6400 2x1GB RAM 4-4-4-15 1.8v
Coolmax 480W fanless PSU
Cheap tower case (worked ok for my last HTPC)
Gemini II cooler (huge but free), with two 120mm fans and one more in the case
ATI HD 4670 Iceq
Win XP SP2

Question #1 is will I benefit from more RAM? Current rig seems fine, except I could use more CPU speed. I do little gaming, mostly playing ripped blu-ray HD 1080i/p material. I do use quickpar almost every day.

I found these RAM modules to complement my OCZ:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227139
and these
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-SlickDeals&cm_mmc=AFC-SlickDeals-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&Item=N82E16820145034

Question #2 I use a a 5.25" drive bay mounted fan controller in my current rig. With the new mobo (DS3L) can I use the on board controller to control the three fans in unison, without a drive bay mounted fan controller?
2GB is enough for video playback task. AFAIK, DS3L support fan control only for CPU. So you have to use other fan control devices. The quickest/cheapest fan controller is Zalman Fan Mate 2. Or use 5V/7V trick (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article6-page1.html).

renethx
Do you have any information on the new radeon HD 4550 passive ?
Which manufacturers are making it ?
Where can I get it ? ( in uk )
Will this fit the Antec fusion ?
Thanks

renethx
Do you have any information on the new radeon HD 4550 passive ?
Which manufacturers are making it ?
Where can I get it ? ( in uk )
Will this fit the Antec fusion ?
Thanks
AFAIK, GIGABYTE GV-R455D3-512I (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2925) is the only passively cooled HD 4550 card (so far). It should be available soon. It fits Fusion fine.

Hello,

I'm new to this forum and i was wondering what people here thought of this setup I'm planning on building soon:


AMD Athlon 64 X2 4850E Dual Core Processor Socket AM2 2.5GHZ 2X512KB 65NM 45W Retail Box

Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H AMD 780G mATX AM2+ PCI-EX SATA RAID Video Sound GLAN 1394 HDMI Motherboard

G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-8000 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-1000 CL5-5-5-15 240PIN Dual Channel Memory Kit

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 3.5IN 500GB SATA2 8.5MS 7200RPM 32MB Cache Ncq Hard Drive Oem

Lg GGC-H20L BLU-RAY HD-DVD Reader BD-ROM 6X Hd DVD-ROM 3X DVD+-RW 16X8X6 Dl 4X Black Sata Software

Antec Fusion Black 430 HTPC Desktop mATX 1X5.25 2X3.5INT 430W ATX12V Black VFD Volume Control

Logitech Dinovo Mini Mce Htpc Wireless Keyboard Backlit Bluetooth 30FT Range LI-ION

Gigabyte GN-WP01GS(1.0) Wireless 802.11B/G PCI Adapter 54MBPS Software Access Point Smart SETUP3


I'm omitting tuner which will be genpix skywalker-1. The purpose of this build will be to watch HD mostly.

Any comments and suggestions are welcome. :)

Thank you.

Basically you can attach a TV tuner(s) (PCI, USB, or Network) and you are ready to go (although I am not sure if your hardware is good enough for HDTV). You have to use the bundled application or a third-party player (e.g. MediaPortal, VLC). Some tuner are dual digital (e.g. HDHomeRun), some are analog+digital. Some tuner support QAM, some not. So you need to choose it carefully. You will need multiple tuners (need not to be the same model) to record/watch multiple TV shows simultaneously, for example, watch one show and record two others requires three tuners (but not necessarily three cards). Each tuner may have its own thread in this forum

Yeah that site is what brought me here.

Basically I want to replace my DVR with a PC. I might add a BD drive later, but mostly I want to watch and record TV. What would I need to make my PC handle HD?

For audio connections to my surround receiver I need an upgraded sound card correct?

Thanks

I'm new to this forum and i was wondering what people here thought of this setup I'm planning on building soon:


AMD Athlon 64 X2 4850E Dual Core Processor Socket AM2 2.5GHZ 2X512KB 65NM 45W Retail Box

Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H AMD 780G mATX AM2+ PCI-EX SATA RAID Video Sound GLAN 1394 HDMI Motherboard

G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ PC2-8000 4GB 2X2GB DDR2-1000 CL5-5-5-15 240PIN Dual Channel Memory Kit

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 3.5IN 500GB SATA2 8.5MS 7200RPM 32MB Cache Ncq Hard Drive Oem

Lg GGC-H20L BLU-RAY HD-DVD Reader BD-ROM 6X Hd DVD-ROM 3X DVD+-RW 16X8X6 Dl 4X Black Sata Software

Antec Fusion Black 430 HTPC Desktop mATX 1X5.25 2X3.5INT 430W ATX12V Black VFD Volume Control

Logitech Dinovo Mini Mce Htpc Wireless Keyboard Backlit Bluetooth 30FT Range LI-ION

Gigabyte GN-WP01GS(1.0) Wireless 802.11B/G PCI Adapter 54MBPS Software Access Point Smart SETUP3


I'm omitting tuner which will be genpix skywalker-1. The purpose of this build will be to watch HD mostly.

Any comments and suggestions are welcome. :)
Do you use a HDMI receiver? Do you do 1080i deinterlacing with GPU? If yes to both, you'd better add a discrete graphics card HD 4550/4650/4670. Otherwise a good choice.

Yeah that site is what brought me here.

Basically I want to replace my DVR with a PC. I might add a BD drive later, but mostly I want to watch and record TV. What would I need to make my PC handle HD?

For audio connections to my surround receiver I need an upgraded sound card correct?
Perhaps your system (Dell OptiPlex GX260, 2002) is good to handle HDTV (MPEG-2), but definitely underpowered for BD. You'd better build (or buy) a new system for this purpose. Does you receiver support HDMI? Then you'll want 7.1 LPCM audio. Please check my latest recommendations.

Basically you can't replace DVR with a PC. Read the TV tuner section at page 1.

You should look into the new GeForce 9300 series boards. They have decently low power usage, have passive heatsinks on the chip and are capable of handling 24p on the IGP. I'm in the same boat as you. It will be on alot and needs to be quiet and capable of handling top HD performance. Check out the 9300/9400 thread.

Thanks, will do :)

Hi, nice thread and nice Forum here ;)

Im searching a HTPC Case with removeable HD Cages so that i can build a 3,5" Scythe drive in wich actually is in my Midtower Case.

AFAIK the choice is very small, only Lian Li C32 and perhaps the new Antec Fusion Max may allow that. Is there any Case exept the ones mentioned above where it´s possible ?

The Antec remote Max seem to have the same driveholders than the other Antecs, if inbuilding a Scythe drive 3,5 isnt possible i think the 2,5" Version is cause officially it fits in any 3,5 HDD cage...or not ?

Watching the reconmendations page i saw that the G45 Chipset is still in the list, are the HDCP Problems etc. wich Intel Boards have now resolved ?


THX in advance and Greetz from Germany :)

Do you use a HDMI receiver? Do you do 1080i deinterlacing with GPU? If yes to both, you'd better add a discrete graphics card HD 4550/4650/4670. Otherwise a good choice.
No, I do not have a HDMI receiver.

Not sure what you mean by '1080i deinterlacing with GPU'. I'm new to this. Can you clarify perhaps?

Im searching a HTPC Case with removeable HD Cages so that i can build a 3,5" Scythe drive in wich actually is in my Midtower Case.
What do you mean by "build a 3,5" Scythe drive"? Would you elaborate on this?

The repeater issue was (almost) fixed with the latest patch 125 in TMT. WinDVD is also fine. I think the issue remains with PowerDVD (I haven't tested lately).

No, I do not have a HDMI receiver.

Not sure what you mean by '1080i deinterlacing with GPU'. I'm new to this. Can you clarify perhaps?
Many HD TV programs are 1080i and they must be deinterlaced by GPU or HDTV.

Ok, I looked at page 85 to see what kind of system I could get for what price. I liked the price of this one:

Intel/NVIDIA

System

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz Socket 775, $183.
* CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000, $33.
* Motherboard: abit I-N73HD GeForce 7100 chipset microATX, $63.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $65.
* Graphics Card: ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT, $110 (after rebate).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $77.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX, $52 (after rebate).
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black, $147.
* Total Cost: $730

However, The motherboard is no longer available on newegg and it seems like from Google searches that it's not really around anymore, so I'm looking for a recommendation of what to buy based on what I plan on doing with it.

I want this system to be on the smaller side, up to 2x the size of a Directv HD-DVR would probably be the largest I'd want to go. I will hook it up to my 42" 1080p HDTV. So I'll want HD, 7.1 Surround support would be nice (don't have it now, but you never know in the future), and I may add a Blue-ray player to it. I will be playing DVD rips from my NAS device on my network, as well as viewing pictures and listening to music. I plan on running Win XP with XBMC as my Home Theater console.

Please help. Thank you in advance.

What do you mean by "build a 3,5" Scythe drive"? Would you elaborate on this?

The repeater issue was (almost) fixed with the latest patch 125 in TMT. WinDVD is also fine. I think the issue remains with PowerDVD (I haven't tested lately).

:confused: no i want to put my Quiet drive wich is 3,5 " Formfaktor in a HTPC Case, my skills are not really enough to build 1 by myself. Perhaps i used the wrong words first so that youre a bit confused.

Unless ATI has changed things with the 4000 series cards, you need to use an actual ATI DVI-HDMI connector when driving an HDTV through its HDMI input. If you don't, the video card will not drive the TV correctly, sending RGB 0-255 to the HDTV instead of YCbCr (16-235).

What you will notice with your setup is the image is overly contrast. Dark scenes will be extremely dark (or black), and bright scenes will be overly bright (even clipping at full brightness/full color saturation).

The issue is all HDTVs (by default) are designed to operate using the BT.709 colorspace (grey scale range of 16-235) when displaying HD content and all PC monitors are designed to operate using the sRGB colorspace (grey scale range of 0-255). ATI cards use the sRGB (PC) colorspace for output when the ATI HDMI "dongle" is not used.

To fix the problem you can do one of the following:

Install the HDMI dongle and purchase/install an HDMI cable.
If your HDTV has this option, go into the setup menu and tell it to operate in sRGB mode by enabling (something like) "full range RGB", "RGB 0-255", "PC mode", "sRGB", etc.
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the overall (non-AVIVO) brightness to +31 and decrease the overall contrast to 73%. This will essentially compress the 0-255 brightness range into the required 16-235 range. Unfortunately some software (such as PowerDVD Ultra running in Vista) overrides this and you will also need to fine tune that software's brightness and contrast settings (for PDVD Ultra 7.3 with Vista, setting a brightness of +19 and contrast of -5 works).
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the AVIVO brightness to +16 and decrease the AVIVO contrast to 86%. Note this causes video rendered by hardware acceleration (DXVA) to remain with a 16-235 range but it does not correct photographs, desktop, games or PC applications. The (minor, IMO) advantage to using this method is BTB and WTW is retained (no other method, not even #1 retains BTB and WTW information).




Let me get this straight... Unless I use that little adapter that came with the video card I will not get the standard proper HDMI signal? So this adapter must have some filtering or something inside to reduce the gray scale range. It seems I am better off from your suggestion though to use what I have now and make the changes in the ATI Control Panel...

Many HD TV programs are 1080i and they must be deinterlaced by GPU or HDTV.
I'm tempted to go with a standalone GPU, but are there microATX motherboards you can recommend that do not feature integrated graphics?

Thanks.

* Motherboard: abit I-N73HD GeForce 7100 chipset microATX, $63.

Perhaps the GIGABYTE GA-73PVM-S2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128088) might be a good alternative? It uses the same chipset, I believe.

Hi Renethx,

The system I want to build is just used for watching blu-ray and other movie files. Some files tend to use the CPU rather than HA in the graphics card. What minimum spec would you recommend for files that cannot use HA in the GPU? I'm not intending to use the HTPC for transcoding or gaming, just watching movies and listening to music.

The current components of the prospective HTPC are;

Onkyo (Non-HDMI) receiver with DTS and Dolby (maybe upgraded in future)
Silverstone LC-17 with 450W PSU
Intel Core 2 E6400 (2.133 Ghz)
Asus P5B-E (optional)
2x1 Ghz Ram PC-6400

Picture is more important than sound, however good sound when listening to music is nice.
The case has plenty of room to fit cards so the system can be upgraded (for example, sound card).

Thanks for you help.

Ok, I looked at page 85 to see what kind of system I could get for what price. I liked the price of this one:

Intel/NVIDIA

System

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz Socket 775, $183.
* CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000, $33.
* Motherboard: abit I-N73HD GeForce 7100 chipset microATX, $63.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $65.
* Graphics Card: ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT, $110 (after rebate).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $77.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX, $52 (after rebate).
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black, $147.
* Total Cost: $730

However, The motherboard is no longer available on newegg and it seems like from Google searches that it's not really around anymore, so I'm looking for a recommendation of what to buy based on what I plan on doing with it.

I want this system to be on the smaller side, up to 2x the size of a Directv HD-DVR would probably be the largest I'd want to go. I will hook it up to my 42" 1080p HDTV. So I'll want HD, 7.1 Surround support would be nice (don't have it now, but you never know in the future), and I may add a Blue-ray player to it. I will be playing DVD rips from my NAS device on my network, as well as viewing pictures and listening to music. I plan on running Win XP with XBMC as my Home Theater console.

Please help. Thank you in advance.

How would this motherboard work in the system above? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131229

If you want HDMI audio, then you have to go with Radeon HD 4xxx. With 9600 GT, you are limited to S/PDIF. ATX Mid-range - Intel/Intel is a good choice. You can use E8400. As this particular HD 4670 model does not come with a component video cable, you have to buy it.

Thanks for your reply, Rene. This review suggests 5.1 S/PDIF piggy-backs onto the "special" DVI output and is re-wired to HDMI form-factor by the adapter (see middle of linked page).

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2285

Are you saying I can't run component video output at the same time as HDMI audio output?

Or do you mean I'm limited to 5.1 audio - no 7.1 decoding?

Thanks!

Update - I found this new (to me) information on the new ECS GF9300TA mobo built with nVidia GF9300 chipset:
"When we look closer at the block diagram we notice some more interesting features. 7.1 Channel HDA sound, the motherboard GPU offers full 8-channel LPCM uncompressed audio streams to drive 7.1 surround sound home theater systems comprised of right, left, center, left surround, left rear, right surround, right rear, and LFE/subwoofer channels."

http://www.guru3d.com/article/nvidia-gf9300-ecs-gf9300ta-mainboard-review-test/2

Is this saying I can connect a pass-thru cable from ECS GF9300TA mobo to 9600GT and output 7.1 LPCM over HDMI? It sounds to me like this Intel / nVidia combo should be OK. Thoughts, comments?

Thanks!

Hi guys,

I'm building this new machine (a mix of the mid/high end recommendations):

ASUS M3A78-EM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX
Phenom 9950 BE
Scythe ninja Mini
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB
HIS Hightech H465F512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V
G-Skill 2x2GB Model F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ

I need an alternative to the Antec Fusion Remote case (can't get it from the online store). And it needs to have built-in IR with a good remote.

Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks!

The motherboard is no longer available on newegg and it seems like from Google searches that it's not really around anymore, so I'm looking for a recommendation of what to buy based on what I plan on doing with it.
abit I-N73HD is avaiable at several stores (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=I-N73HD&cid=2253511998583082407&scoring=p#ps-sellers).

BTW your system does not support 7.1 surround sounds (unless you use analog). It supports stereo LPCM, DD 5.1 and DTS. If you don't play games, 9500 GT is enough for video playback.

:confused: no i want to put my Quiet drive wich is 3,5 " Formfaktor in a HTPC Case, my skills are not really enough to build 1 by myself. Perhaps i used the wrong words first so that youre a bit confused.
Scythe "Quiet Drive for 2.5" Internal HDD Silencer for 2.5 inch HDD (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/hdd/008/sqd251000_detail.html) will fit in any 3.5" drive bay.

Scythe "Quiet Drive" Internal HDD Silencer for 3.5 inch HDD on 5.25 inch bay (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/hdd/005/sqd1000_detail.html) will fit in any 5.25" drive bay, no?

I'm tempted to go with a standalone GPU, but are there microATX motherboards you can recommend that do not feature integrated graphics?
There is no mATX mb without integrated graphics. Basically any 780G mb should work fine with a discrete graphics card. In US, ASUS M3A78-EM is feature-rich and cheap (so in my recommendations).

The system I want to build is just used for watching blu-ray and other movie files. Some files tend to use the CPU rather than HA in the graphics card. What minimum spec would you recommend for files that cannot use HA in the GPU? I'm not intending to use the HTPC for transcoding or gaming, just watching movies and listening to music.
If you already have E6400, then use it (overclocking may be necessary). If you are going to buy a new CPU, E7200/E7300/E7400.

Do you find P5B-E at dirt cheap price? Otherwise you'd better choose a P43/P45 mb instead of this two year old model (check my low-end or mid-range - ATX - Intel/Intel system).

Thanks for your reply, Rene. This review suggests 5.1 S/PDIF piggy-backs onto the "special" DVI output and is re-wired to HDMI form-factor by the adapter (see middle of linked page).

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2285

Are you saying I can't run component video output at the same time as HDMI audio output?

Or do you mean I'm limited to 5.1 audio - no 7.1 decoding?

Thanks!

Update - I found this new (to me) information on the new ECS GF9300TA mobo built with nVidia GF9300 chipset:
"When we look closer at the block diagram we notice some more interesting features. 7.1 Channel HDA sound, the motherboard GPU offers full 8-channel LPCM uncompressed audio streams to drive 7.1 surround sound home theater systems comprised of right, left, center, left surround, left rear, right surround, right rear, and LFE/subwoofer channels."

http://www.guru3d.com/article/nvidia-gf9300-ecs-gf9300ta-mainboard-review-test/2

Is this saying I can connect a pass-thru cable from ECS GF9300TA mobo to 9600GT and output 7.1 LPCM over HDMI? It sounds to me like this Intel / nVidia combo should be OK. Thoughts, comments?
You can use component video and HDMI audio at the same time. Connect component cable to the TV and HDMI cable to the receiver. Choose clone mode or extended desktop mode.

As you have Onkyo TX-SR805, you will want 7.1 LPCM instead of DD or DTS. Your choices are:

- Radeon HD 4xxx card (see my system recommendations) that has its own HD audio controller supporting 7.1 LPCM.
- Intel G45 chipset mb. In this case you can't use a disrete card.
- GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 chipset mb. You can use any GeForce graphics card for componet video with HDMI audio from the mb chipset. For example ECS GF9300T-A mb + GeForce 9600 GT card. Please read my post Any GeForce graphics card + GeForce 8200 HDMI audio work together perfectly! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13897618#post13897618).

I need an alternative to the Antec Fusion Remote case (can't get it from the online store). And it needs to have built-in IR with a good remote.

Any ideas/suggestions?
AFAIK there are not many choices. OrigenAE S14V, SilverStone Grandia GD02MT (both are pricey).

I am looking for a company or an individual willing to work with me to provide a home theater computer and server setup. Ideally this would include two computers, one the HTPC to play Blue-Ray discs and send 1080i and 7.1 surround to an existing receiver. It will ultimately be showing 1080i over a DELL ULTRASHARP 2408WFP and a Panasonic PT-AE3000. This HTPC would also need to be able to receive over the air HD TV signals and record them for later viewing. (no cable or satellite needed) One interesting question is that the antenna is able to be turned with a IR remote to any direction to get better reception (channel master 9521A), could the HTPC control this, so it could be the best reception for recording? The HTPC’s main job will be ripping and playing DVD and BD movies to Hard Disc on the server. This HTPC will also be used for very light gaming. Disc space will be my main concern and this is where the server will come into play. I currently have a collection of some 1500 dvd’s and now 1 bd (these numbers will grow quickly). I want to be able to store and access these all via the computer system. For right now I am estimating that I would like to start with 8-10 1.5tb Seagate Barracuda drives ($190 newegg). I would like these to be somehow protected from loss as it will take me a long time to rip all of the DVD’s. I am not sure if a hardware or software RAID-? would be best? One option a friend of mine said was why didn’t I just make the HTPC be the only true pc and let the server just be a box with HD’s and cables running to the HTPC. I would like these two computers to be in rack mount cases (preferably in silver to match everything else). I do like the Norco 4020 ($290) case for the server, except that it only comes in black. It has 20 drive bays and while I want to start with 8-10 1.5tb drives it would be nice to expand. With 20 drives that would give me 28.5tbs of drive space (I think?). I would like to be able to grow my server by one or two discs as needed. One last request could the HTPC be controlled by either a RF remote or mouse? (The rack sits at a weird angle to the main seating and IR remotes are hard to use.) Oh could I use a PS3 as a media player in a different room over the network?

I have toyed with the idea of building these myself but the more I read into it the more I realize that I do not have the computer background to take on such a project. The main problem being the system inauguration of all of my previously stated requirements. Not absolutely everything is needed but they would be nice. Money is an issue, I wish it grew on trees but it doesn’t and it sounds like the future president might take even more from me and spread it around. Please message me and let me know of ideas price ranges etc. Thanks for your time reading this. -Steve

If you already have E6400, then use it (overclocking may be necessary). If you are going to buy a new CPU, E7200/E7300/E7400.

Do you find P5B-E at dirt cheap price? Otherwise you'd better choose a P43/P45 mb instead of this two year old model (check my low-end or mid-range - ATX - Intel/Intel system).

LOL, E6400 and the P5B-E are my current main PC components. I thought about upgrading my main PC to a faster CPU (Q9300 or E8500), so these old bits would be available for a HTPC. But I'm pretty flexible, and in the end there's no point in making a HTPC if it isn't capable.

LOL, E6400 and the P5B-E are my current main PC components. I thought about upgrading my main PC to a faster CPU (Q9300 or E8500), so these old bits would be available for a HTPC. But I'm pretty flexible, and in the end there's no point in making a HTPC if it isn't capable.
Then what you need is only a graphics card. As you don't need 7.1 LPCM through HDMI, you can choose a GeForce card (for example, 9500 GT/9600 GT) and use the onboard S/PDIF. But if you may upgrade the receiver in future, then you'd better choose a Radeon HD 4550/4650/4670 card.

Let me get this straight... Unless I use that little adapter that came with the video card I will not get the standard proper HDMI signal?

There are two "standard proper HDMI signals", one that ranges 16-235 YCbCr and is output by video devices and one that ranges 0-255 sRGB and is output by computer devices. If your display is a TV, it probably expects the first type, if it's a computer monitor, it probably expects the second. Many TVs and monitors can accept either type. Many computer devices and many video devices can send either type. You just need to get the display and source doing the same thing.

So this adapter must have some filtering or something inside to reduce the gray scale range.

I don't really know, but I doubt that's how it works. It probably just has some means of telling the video card that it should send YCbCr instead of sRGB.

Renethx.

Hi, back again, been waiting 4 weeks for my GFX card (which im ok with, since i've been waiting for the case about 3 weeks) But this is getting ridiculous. They keep postponing the delivery date. So im wondering if i can buy any of these instead of the ASUS VGA-Card Radeon HD4870X2 2048MB PCI-E Reatil (EAH4870X2/HTDI/2G) ->


Priceguide - Radeon 4870X2 (http://prisguide.hardware.no/vis_kategori.php?cat_id=30&manufacturer_id%5B%5D=&tc%5B165%5D=select&tv%5B165%5D%5B%5D=12416&tc%5B167%5D=gt&tv%5B167%5D=&tc%5B2287%5D=bool&tv%5B2287%5D=&tc%5B166%5D=select&tv%5B166%5D%5B%5D=10538&sortering=min_price&ppp=25&searchFilter=Begrens+s%F8ket+her&sortering=hits+DESC)

If so, what would be the difference? Alot of the manufacturers has problems with delivering to the stores. So only a hand full have the cards in stock. So it either has to be Sapphire Radeon HD 4870 X2 or PowerColor Radeon HD 4870 X2 2 GB.

Which one do i choose?

Thx

Unless I use that little adapter that came with the video card I will not get the standard proper HDMI signal? So this adapter must have some filtering or something inside to reduce the gray scale range.

I don't really know, but I doubt that's how it works. It probably just has some means of telling the video card that it should send YCbCr instead of sRGB.

Nope, there is no filter inside that ATI DVI-HDMI dongle (nor are there special audio-only pins on ATI's DVI connector). MrFoxer is on the right track. I could very well be wrong, but I'd bet that which color space is sent probably works the same way as how the ATI card decides to send the audio data over the dvi's data signals. The DVI and HDMI spec includes a small serial data bus called I2C ("I-squared See"). That is how the EDID info is read. The ATI dongle includes a small memory chip that connects to this bus. The ATI card can tell if the dongle is plugged in by trying to read that chip, and ensuring it gets back the proper data. If all goes well, the ATI card switches the color space and sends the audio data.

Unless ATI has changed things with the 4000 series cards, you need to use an actual ATI DVI-HDMI connector when driving an HDTV through its HDMI input. If you don't, the video card will not drive the TV correctly, sending RGB 0-255 to the HDTV instead of YCbCr (16-235).

To fix the problem you can do one of the following:

Install the HDMI dongle and purchase/install an HDMI cable.
If your HDTV has this option, go into the setup menu and tell it to operate in sRGB mode by enabling (something like) "full range RGB", "RGB 0-255", "PC mode", "sRGB", etc.
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the overall (non-AVIVO) brightness to +31 and decrease the overall contrast to 73%. This will essentially compress the 0-255 brightness range into the required 16-235 range. Unfortunately some software (such as PowerDVD Ultra running in Vista) overrides this and you will also need to fine tune that software's brightness and contrast settings (for PDVD Ultra 7.3 with Vista, setting a brightness of +19 and contrast of -5 works).
In the ATI Advanced Control Panel, increase the AVIVO brightness to +16 and decrease the AVIVO contrast to 86%. Note this causes video rendered by hardware acceleration (DXVA) to remain with a 16-235 range but it does not correct photographs, desktop, games or PC applications. The (minor, IMO) advantage to using this method is BTB and WTW is retained (no other method, not even #1 retains BTB and WTW information).



Nope, there is no filter inside that ATI DVI-HDMI dongle (nor are there special audio-only pins on ATI's DVI connector). MrFoxer is on the right track. I could very well be wrong, but I'd bet that which color space is sent probably works the same way as how the ATI card decides to send the audio data over the dvi's data signals. The DVI and HDMI spec includes a small serial data bus called I2C ("I-squared C). That is how the EDID info is read. The ATI dongle includes a small memory chip that connects to this bus. The ATI card can tell if the dongle is plugged in my trying to read that chip, and ensuring it gets back the proper data. If all goes well, the ATI card switches the color space and sends the audio data.

Ok, now that does make sense to me, I figured there had to be something in that connector other than just pin redirection. I was also wondering how it was supposed to be sending the audio signal as well but thought they had to be using some part of the DVI channel... So now I know that the video card is switching it output based on something in the connector that tells it to send HMDI colorspace.

I think I will try it both ways and see what I like better (since HT Slider explained how to make corrections in the Control Panel for video). Thanks for the explanation.

AFAIK there are not many choices. OrigenAE S14V, SilverStone Grandia GD02MT (both are pricey).

Yikes!!!

Ok, I'll just keep looking for the Fusion Remote at other retailers.


Thanks a lot for all you do! You're the king!

I figured there had to be something in that connector other than just pin redirection. I was also wondering how it was supposed to be sending the audio signal as well but thought they had to be using some part of the DVI channel...

You got it. To the best of my knowledge, ATI does not use a proprietary DVI connector pinout, nor do they do any sort of weird pin redirection. They send audio over the 3 sets of data signals in the connector, just like they would if it was an HDMI connector (those signals are 1:1 mapped to the HDMI pins).

I think the only difference between a standard DVI-HDMI dongle and ATI's is that the latter includes that eprom, or some other NVRAM device connected to the I2C bus. It kind of makes me want to buy one of those dongles and crack it open to be sure.

edit: I've wasted way to much time in the past thinking about that stupid dongle :)

i want to know do i know to buy a sound card and a receiver in order to have DTS sound?

This thread is invaluable as ever and I figure that if anyone know the answer to my question it would be someone in here...

I have a problem with Nvidia cards in general and their tendency to 'auto-detect' the display devices currently connected to the PC - leading to them changing the settings automatically.

For example, a friend of mine only plugs his projector into his HTPC occasionally - the rest of the time it is locked away somewhere. Each time he plugs it in he needs to set up the dual monitor cloning option, frequency, resolution etc. In the case of ATI cards, they maintain the same settings unless you change them.

My question is this; what can I do to 'lock down' the settings in the Nvidia control panel? Or am I stuck with ATI graphics cards for this feature?

AFAIK, GIGABYTE GV-R455D3-512I (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2925) is the only passively cooled HD 4550 card (so far). It should be available soon. It fits Fusion fine.

Any problems using this in Intel g35 matx mobo Asus P5E-VM with Q6600 cpu ?

I am currently testing TV pack aka Fiji with 'hacked' h264 decoder ( following help from guys @ TGB ) - in this scenario g35 igp works ok but get some pixelation with H264 transmissions and driver instability particularly after resume from sleep ( loss of sound , BSOD and decoder error ) So wondering if this card would work better for me ?

Also if just using for mce and HD playback and no gaming any benefit of this over 4350 ?

Thanks

Nope, there is no filter inside that ATI DVI-HDMI dongle (nor are there special audio-only pins on ATI's DVI connector). MrFoxer is on the right track. I could very well be wrong, but I'd bet that which color space is sent probably works the same way as how the ATI card decides to send the audio data over the dvi's data signals. The DVI and HDMI spec includes a small serial data bus called I2C ("I-squared See"). That is how the EDID info is read. The ATI dongle includes a small memory chip that connects to this bus. The ATI card can tell if the dongle is plugged in by trying to read that chip, and ensuring it gets back the proper data. If all goes well, the ATI card switches the color space and sends the audio data.

This is good information. I wondered how the switch was made to the correct level, though I've mainly just been happy that the ATI solution is smart enough to do it without my having to do anything special. For me, if you add this to the high quality HDMI audio, and the fact that I like ATI video better than nVidia video, the newer Radeon cards are the best HTPC solutions yet.

Using the MSI 7411 as a platform, I'm looking for the best comprimise between power consumption, high quality picture, and some decent gaming performance. I think the following gets me there but I have a question. First the proposed system:

MSI 7411 (780M chipset)
AMD 5050e (2.6GHz/45W - 1GHz HT speed)
ATI 3200 IGP
ATI 3870 512MB in crossfire mode

Would the above config enable post-processing on 1080i content? I'm hoping someone will tell me that when I watch 1080i content I will get post processing enabled because of the 3870.

If so, hopefully the 3200 would be in use most of the time and shut down the 3870 when it is not needed for 3D work or video acceleration. Does anyone know how this config (or a similar one) functions?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Then what you need is only a graphics card. As you don't need 7.1 LPCM through HDMI, you can choose a GeForce card (for example, 9500 GT/9600 GT) and use the onboard S/PDIF. But if you may upgrade the receiver in future, then you'd better choose a Radeon HD 4550/4650/4670 card.

Thanks Renethx, sounds good. I'll look forward to you opinions of the HD4550 (or maybe a HD 4650/4670 if it makes any improvement to video processing over the HD 4550)

Thanks again.

I am looking for a company or an individual willing to work with me to provide a home theater computer and server setup. Ideally this would include two computers, one the HTPC to play Blue-Ray discs and send 1080i and 7.1 surround to an existing receiver. It will ultimately be showing 1080i over a DELL ULTRASHARP 2408WFP and a Panasonic PT-AE3000. This HTPC would also need to be able to receive over the air HD TV signals and record them for later viewing. (no cable or satellite needed) One interesting question is that the antenna is able to be turned with a IR remote to any direction to get better reception (channel master 9521A), could the HTPC control this, so it could be the best reception for recording? The HTPC’s main job will be ripping and playing DVD and BD movies to Hard Disc on the server. This HTPC will also be used for very light gaming. Disc space will be my main concern and this is where the server will come into play. I currently have a collection of some 1500 dvd’s and now 1 bd (these numbers will grow quickly). I want to be able to store and access these all via the computer system. For right now I am estimating that I would like to start with 8-10 1.5tb Seagate Barracuda drives ($190 newegg). I would like these to be somehow protected from loss as it will take me a long time to rip all of the DVD’s. I am not sure if a hardware or software RAID-? would be best? One option a friend of mine said was why didn’t I just make the HTPC be the only true pc and let the server just be a box with HD’s and cables running to the HTPC. I would like these two computers to be in rack mount cases (preferably in silver to match everything else). I do like the Norco 4020 ($290) case for the server, except that it only comes in black. It has 20 drive bays and while I want to start with 8-10 1.5tb drives it would be nice to expand. With 20 drives that would give me 28.5tbs of drive space (I think?). I would like to be able to grow my server by one or two discs as needed. One last request could the HTPC be controlled by either a RF remote or mouse? (The rack sits at a weird angle to the main seating and IR remotes are hard to use.) Oh could I use a PS3 as a media player in a different room over the network?

I have toyed with the idea of building these myself but the more I read into it the more I realize that I do not have the computer background to take on such a project. The main problem being the system inauguration of all of my previously stated requirements. Not absolutely everything is needed but they would be nice. Money is an issue, I wish it grew on trees but it doesn’t and it sounds like the future president might take even more from me and spread it around. Please message me and let me know of ideas price ranges etc. Thanks for your time reading this. -Steve

Where are you located? This is NOT something you should consider doing "remotely". You need someone there to build it and show you how things work. There are a lot of people who "say" they can build something but then when you get it, you find a broken connection, software setu p is different, etc. I don't help people build PCs as a business anymore (haven't been in that business for over 10 years) but may consider giving some "helpful advice if your located near me. I suspect it's the same for about 50% of the folks on here. I do have a friend that builds PC's and repairs PC's as his only business (but he doesn't know HTPC) and therefore I would not even have someone like him build me one. You really need someone local that can help so... where (what town, state) do you live in so that we can see if there is anyone close by that could help (fee or no fee).

epilogue - If the pocketbook is really a concern, you need to be aware that the size you are talking about building will probably EASILY run you between $3K & $5K (15Tb of storage alone is going to cost over $2,000).

This thread is invaluable as ever and I figure that if anyone know the answer to my question it would be someone in here...

I have a problem with Nvidia cards in general and their tendency to 'auto-detect' the display devices currently connected to the PC - leading to them changing the settings automatically.

For example, a friend of mine only plugs his projector into his HTPC occasionally - the rest of the time it is locked away somewhere. Each time he plugs it in he needs to set up the dual monitor cloning option, frequency, resolution etc. In the case of ATI cards, they maintain the same settings unless you change them.

My question is this; what can I do to 'lock down' the settings in the Nvidia control panel? Or am I stuck with ATI graphics cards for this feature?
NVIDIA also offers profile options. Save your current settings as a profile from NVIDIA Control Panel and call it when necessary from NVIDIA Control Panel (I think you can't set a hot key).

Any problems using this in Intel g35 matx mobo Asus P5E-VM with Q6600 cpu ?

I am currently testing TV pack aka Fiji with 'hacked' h264 decoder ( following help from guys @ TGB ) - in this scenario g35 igp works ok but get some pixelation with H264 transmissions and driver instability particularly after resume from sleep ( loss of sound , BSOD and decoder error ) So wondering if this card would work better for me ?

Also if just using for mce and HD playback and no gaming any benefit of this over 4350 ?
HD 4350 works fine with P5E-VM HDMI. The card is great for 1080p HD contents (but a bit weak in HD/SD post-processing).

Using the MSI 7411 as a platform, I'm looking for the best comprimise between power consumption, high quality picture, and some decent gaming performance. I think the following gets me there but I have a question. First the proposed system:

MSI 7411 (780M chipset)
AMD 5050e (2.6GHz/45W - 1GHz HT speed)
ATI 3200 IGP
ATI 3870 512MB in crossfire mode

Would the above config enable post-processing on 1080i content? I'm hoping someone will tell me that when I watch 1080i content I will get post processing enabled because of the 3870.

If so, hopefully the 3200 would be in use most of the time and shut down the 3870 when it is not needed for 3D work or video acceleration. Does anyone know how this config (or a similar one) functions?
You can't use HD 3870 and HD 3200 in Hybrid CrossFire mode, only one at a time in video playback. If you use HD 3870 for video playback, then 5050e is a good choice. However, if you are going to use HD 3200 for video playback, you have to choose a Phenom for good post-processing in 1080i (any Phenom model is fine; the point is HT 3.0).

You can't shut down HD 3870. As long as it is installed in the system, it is active.