Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 17

fly4christ78

10-22-08, 01:17 AM

Where are you located? This is NOT something you should consider doing "remotely". You need someone there to build it and show you how things work. There are a lot of people who "say" they can build something but then when you get it, you find a broken connection, software setu p is different, etc. I don't help people build PCs as a business anymore (haven't been in that business for over 10 years) but may consider giving some "helpful advice if your located near me. I suspect it's the same for about 50% of the folks on here. I do have a friend that builds PC's and repairs PC's as his only business (but he doesn't know HTPC) and therefore I would not even have someone like him build me one. You really need someone local that can help so... where (what town, state) do you live in so that we can see if there is anyone close by that could help (fee or no fee).

nbaduuka, thanks for the help, I am located about 45 mins north of pittsburg pa. I do really want to do this but looking at the checkbook I think that I might have to wait until next spring. I just got the projector, rack, and monitor along with a bunch of other new stuff. I think that I should probaly cool it for a bit but I will keep reading up on this stuff and see what happens. But if someone north of pittsburgh is on here that would be great because I would be more likely to do it if there was someone to help me. Thanks

divad2

10-22-08, 02:52 AM

HD 4350 works fine with P5E-VM HDMI. The card is great for 1080p HD contents (but a bit weak in HD/SD post-processing).

Is 4550 better for HD/SD post-processing than 4350 ?

Also AbMagFab is a fan of 9200 and thinks this would be a better option becaude Radeon has problem allegedly with 24p particularly with TMT

What do you think ?

renethx

10-22-08, 03:26 AM

Is 4550 better for HD/SD post-processing than 4350 ?

Also AbMagFab is a fan of 9200 and thinks this would be a better option becaude Radeon has problem allegedly with 24p particularly with TMT

What do you think ?
Yes, 4550 is better than 4350. Actually 4550 is perfect in HD post-processing. 4650/4670 is perfect in both HD and SD post-processing. It looks like 9300/9400 is weak in SD post-processing a bit (I haven't tested it yet). Not sure which is better at 24p.

mudwiggle

10-22-08, 06:10 AM

Yes, 4550 is better than 4350. Actually 4550 is perfect in HD post-processing. 4650/4670 is perfect in both HD and SD post-processing. It looks like 9300/9400 is weak in SD post-processing a bit (I haven't tested it yet). Not sure which is better at 24p.

Very interesting renethx...

Have you ever compared a HTPC with a stand alone dvd or blu-ray player?

ndabunka

10-22-08, 01:01 PM

nbaduuka, thanks for the help, I am located about 45 mins north of pittsburg pa. I do really want to do this but looking at the checkbook I think that I might have to wait until next spring. I just got the projector, rack, and monitor along with a bunch of other new stuff. I think that I should probaly cool it for a bit but I will keep reading up on this stuff and see what happens. But if someone north of pittsburgh is on here that would be great because I would be more likely to do it if there was someone to help me. Thanks

Sorry to say that I am not close by as I am in Charlotte, NC. Sounds like you have a good start. Just keep reading and hanging in there.

nettronic

10-22-08, 02:03 PM

WOW

Another amazing thread at AVS. I can not wait till the guide is finished (especially the software portion, which leads me too this post )

Hopefully someone can help me out here as I am still a bit green in this area, although I have had HTPCs for the better part of 5 years now, really they were nothing more then playback machines.

Now that I am fully HD capable, I am in a delicate quandry as where to go softwarewise, and still a few questions on the hardware. I am going to have my HTPC be the most powerful PC in the house, and handle not only all playback/streaming duties but encoding duties (hoo rah quadcore) and some minor other things as well.

Current HTPC is a simple playback machine.

Intel DG33TL uATX mobo
E2180 CPU with stock heatsink
HIS 2600pro PCIE video card (Intel IGP has no overscanning capability I could find)
Onboard dolby audio
Antec 550W psu
DVDROM
All in a Silverstone Lascala LC-20 case outfitted with 2 92MM panaflo intakes and 2x80mm mass cool exhausts
4GB Gskill PC-8000 (going to be swapped with 4GB Gskill PC-5400 cas 4)
Vultimate 64
Cheap "Anyware" VMC remote

Main PC used for everything else

phenom 9950BE (currently in process of ocing and testing)
Tuniq Tower with stock fan however silverpasted the heatpipes to the base for extra cooling love
Biostar TA790GX A2+ (sinked the FETs for cooler running-ness)
HIS HD4850 stock cooler
4GB PC5400 (CAS4 but getting swapped as mentioned above)
DVDRW (i have both SATA and IDE)

HDDs in use between both PC include
2x80GB sata unraided
2x200GB SATA raid0
320GB seagate perp
750GB samsung F1

TV is a crappy 26" LCD 720p (1368x768) built by Funai but.. Sylvania i think? 6626LCT television. I bought it off ebay last year for 170 shipped, as it was "broken because the frame was cracked and the sound didnt work." But I reattached the front speaker wire (was going to bypass it anyway to the stereo), and taped the corner of the frame shut. Cheap HDMI TV with ATSC tuner :)

I am thinking that since I want the HTPC to handle everything this will be the setup...

Biostar motherboard with phenom CPU Thermalright SI-128 heatsink with low speed fan
Lascala LC-20
Either use onboard HD3300 with (up to 100mhz real decent IGP btw), or stick with 2600pro for GPU accelerated upscaling TBH the HD3300 is probably better.
SATA DVDRW
4 or 8GB ram (dont think I will need 8 but it is on the table)
Server 2008 (I have this just sitting here anyway.. .why not use it) This will allow me to RDP into box with out disturbing HTPC user and setup encodes etc...as well as many other fine features. Will run x64 although x86 handles up to 32GB of ram.
Probably 2x80, the 320 and the 750 GB hard drives with the 2x200 going in the gaming PC.

Will be adding PCIE ATSC tuner card later, possibly a soundcard, and defineitely a BDROM in the future (when you can buy a good one for under 100 dollars)
Should be acceptable yes?

The software recommendations I need are for a media center (since server does not have VMC), but most importantly good encoding software.

I have been playing around with Handbrake. Studying the site guides and googleing when it was not as helpful as I would like (although it is very good) etc, and on straight default settings it runs great, 100% CPU usage fast rips and quality product. But not good enough. I want to shrink my DVD library down to about 2GB per movie MAX... (Which I have set at 70% CBR, VBR deinterlacing, deblocking and denoise settings at middle levels, 2 pass encoding with fast pass, untouched audio AC3 audio and the MKV container. I would like to use simple AVI container for compatabilty but, handbrake .92 has AVI broken right now due to something.

With these settigns a DVD ripped to HDD with DVD-Decrypter, runs at about 25-30% CPU usage first pass (probably something to do with fast pass) and then shoots all the way up 35-40% cpu usage :confused:. Automatic or 4 core setting and I have tried raising priority. no luck still not 100% usage. I just do not feel like waiting 6-9 hours for a DVD to encode when I have about 200 disks I want to process by Christmas. (At that point I should have the ATSC tuner, so I will need CPU cycles for HDTV recording and processing)
Oh another thing to point out about my problems with handbrake. If you click to skip ahead in a movie in WMP11 it pauses for 10-15 seconds then jumps ahead... I am done with it.

So I am looking for another software to use so I can get this done in time.

The other software I am looking for is which 10' UI to consider. I want one with a server and front end component so I can install front ends on the other PCs in the house. I was considering Myth but would like some more seasoned veterans recommendations before jumping into this. I have been using VMC till now and am quite happy with it, just have to get the other people in the house used to it. (They just run through explorer and double click on files :P) Would really like to be able to continue using my remote so one that allows usage of a VMC or MCE remote would be great :) Hey I am cheap what can I do?

This setup is not final so software can be tried and uninstalled. I will reinstall everything fresh before it goes "into production" as it were.

TIA!

TedTheNanite

10-22-08, 02:04 PM

You can't shut down HD 3870. As long as it is installed in the system, it is active.

Powerplay won't turn it off when it is unused?

Thanks for everything you do around here renethx!! :)

QFT

10-22-08, 02:34 PM

Sorry for the stupid question, but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere... does a Radeon HD4550 support 1080p at 120Hz? My current set only does 60Hz but I'm thinking forward...

renethx

10-22-08, 03:04 PM

Powerplay won't turn it off when it is unused?
No. PowerPlay lowers core/memory clock/voltage at idle, but it won't shut down GPU. It's PowerXpress that shuts down GPU, but it is available only on notebookPCs.

TedTheNanite

10-22-08, 03:21 PM

You can't use HD 3870 and HD 3200 in Hybrid CrossFire mode, only one at a time in video playback. If you use HD 3870 for video playback, then 5050e is a good choice. However, if you are going to use HD 3200 for video playback, you have to choose a Phenom for good post-processing in 1080i (any Phenom model is fine; the point is HT 3.0).

You can't shut down HD 3870. As long as it is installed in the system, it is active.

Sorry for the newb questions... So you can somehow specify, use the 3200 for my primary display but use the 3870 for UVD playback? Would Powerplay then (theoretically) clock down the unused GPU?

Earlier when I said "shut down" the 3870 I was mainly talking about Powerplay idling the unused GPU down. I was under the impression that Powerplay was supposed to turn off the unused GPU, but maybe it is not that aggressive... :)

Thanks!

nettronic

10-22-08, 03:25 PM

Sorry for the newb questions... So you can somehow specify, use the 3200 for my primary display but use the 3870 for UVD playback? Would Powerplay then (theoretically) clock down the unused GPU?

Earlier when I said "shut down" the 3870 I was mainly talking about Powerplay idling the unused GPU down. I was under the impression that Powerplay was supposed to turn off the unused GPU, but maybe it is not that aggressive... :)

Thanks!

I think you are confusing powerplay with nVidias Hybrid system (?)

Powerplay is just power settings "low medium and high" no off involved.

nVidias system is supposed to run everything through the IGP, when you need the power.. your discrete card kicks in and handles 3d accelerated programs, when you just need a desktop running it actually powers off the video card and runs solely through the IGP

How this works in detail I have no clue.. going to really enjoy hearing "dong dong! ding dong" of the "found new hardware, hardware removed sounds in windows. every time you move a window with Aero desktop running lol

renethx

10-22-08, 03:40 PM

Sorry for the newb questions... So you can somehow specify, use the 3200 for my primary display but use the 3870 for UVD playback? Would Powerplay then (theoretically) clock down the unused GPU?

Earlier when I said "shut down" the 3870 I was mainly talking about Powerplay idling the unused GPU down. I was under the impression that Powerplay was supposed to turn off the unused GPU, but maybe it is not that aggressive... :)
No. Only the GPU (including UVD and AVIVO post processor=stream processors) to which your playback display is connected is used. Yes, PowerPlay clockdowns the unused GPU. For me using both 3200 and 3870 seems to be somewhat pointless and impractical (unless you use more than two displays). Use just 3870 for every work (video playback with better post-processing, games etc.).

renethx

10-22-08, 04:14 PM

Sorry for the stupid question, but I can't seem to find the answer anywhere... does a Radeon HD4550 support 1080p at 120Hz? My current set only does 60Hz but I'm thinking forward...
I don't know ... if you mean BD playback with a 120Hz LCD, then you just need 24Hz (and the actual max input of the LCD is 60Hz)?

theclear

10-22-08, 05:18 PM

theclear

10-22-08, 05:28 PM

I read in a review from neosseker that the radeon 4550 can work in Crossfire with a 780G mobo, have someone tried?? When u hook up a adapter DVI to HDMI dont u lose some quality ?

tebba

10-22-08, 05:29 PM

renethx.

Hi, back again, been waiting 4 weeks for my gfx card (which im ok with, since i've been waiting for the case about 3 weeks) but this is getting ridiculous. They keep postponing the delivery date. So im wondering if i can buy any of these instead of the asus vga-card radeon hd4870x2 2048mb pci-e reatil (eah4870x2/htdi/2g) ->

priceguide - radeon 4870x2 (http://prisguide.hardware.no/vis_kategori.php?cat_id=30&manufacturer_id%5b%5d=&tc%5b165%5d=select&tv%5b165%5d%5b%5d=12416&tc%5b167%5d=gt&tv%5b167%5d=&tc%5b2287%5d=bool&tv%5b2287%5d=&tc%5b166%5d=select&tv%5b166%5d%5b%5d=10538&sortering=min_price&ppp=25&searchfilter=begrens+s%f8ket+her&sortering=hits+desc)

if so, what would be the difference? Alot of the manufacturers has problems with delivering to the stores. So only a hand full have the cards in stock. So it either has to be sapphire radeon hd 4870 x2 or powercolor radeon hd 4870 x2 2 gb.

Which one do i choose?

Thx

:)

Speqtre

10-22-08, 06:01 PM

I read in a review from neosseker that the radeon 4550 can work in Crossfire with a 780G mobo, have someone tried?? When u hook up a adapter DVI to HDMI dont u lose some quality ?

In answer to your second question, no, there is no quality lost - it's the same digital signal in a different physical format.

renethx

10-23-08, 03:15 AM

Hi all this my first post here , after reading for days ( dayumm this a big thread, lol ) . I just build my HTPC following your instructions , i get a amd 4850e and a gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H with 2 GB 800 mhz, . Now i what to buy a good videocard for movies , that can handle 1080P without delays or something like that. For some mkv files (720) i see very good without any problems (MPC-HC with DXVA enabled ,and a cpu load lower than 10%) ,but with 1080P ,DXVA enabled my cpu goes to 45-65% , meaning that the case will get hot. I was thinking about radeon 4550, 4650 or 4670 (longer than that will not fit in this case ( nox-extreme-dot-com , nox live is the case). I DONT play any kind of games , but i watch a lot of movies on a pasma 42 inch full hd via HDMI. What will be your first and second choice and why??
CPU 45-65% with mkv 1080p means hardware acceleration by GPU does not work (perhaps because the mkv file is not properly created). Then adding a discrete graphics card is useless to decrease CPU usage. High CPU usage does not necessarily mean very high power consumption. In my system consisting of Athlon X2 4850e, GA-MA78GM-S2H, 2 x 1GB memory, onboard video, 1 x HDD and 1 x BD drive, a typical power consumption of the total system is:

- BD playback with PowerDVD: average CPU 33%, 86W
- MKV playback with CoreAVC (no HA): average CPU 80%, 98W

So the difference is only (?) 12W. (If you add a graphics card, you will see the same [or more] amount of power increase because of the additional GPU/memory!)

renethx

10-23-08, 03:19 AM

I read in a review from neosseker that the radeon 4550 can work in Crossfire with a 780G mobo, have someone tried?? When u hook up a adapter DVI to HDMI dont u lose some quality ?
The information at Neoseeker is wrong. None of HD 4350 and HD 4550 works with HD 3200/3300 in the Hybrid CrossFire mode (I tested). BTW Hybrid CrossFire does not help to improve video playback performance at all.

renethx

10-23-08, 03:33 AM

what would be the difference? Alot of the manufacturers has problems with delivering to the stores. So only a hand full have the cards in stock. So it either has to be sapphire radeon hd 4870 x2 or powercolor radeon hd 4870 x2 2 gb.

Which one do i choose?
The only differences are core clock (some are factory-overclocked), accessories and warranty. So choose any card you like.

mudwiggle

10-23-08, 07:02 AM

renethx

10-23-08, 07:10 AM

Hi Renethx,
Sorry to repeat this question, but...

Have you compared the picture quality of a HTPC with a stand alone DVD or blu-ray player at any stage? Not that it will make any difference to my build as you can't beat the versatility of a HTPC.
Yes (BD). I see little to no difference of PQ, but just in my system.

BackLash83

10-23-08, 07:18 AM

The information at Neoseeker is wrong. None of HD 4350 and HD 4550 works with HD 3200/3300 in the Hybrid CrossFire mode (I tested). BTW Hybrid CrossFire does not help to improve video playback performance at all.

How about NVidia Hybrid SLI? I wonder if it's worth waiting for the new 730i chipset with a Geforce 9300 IGP. Is there a NVidia card wich is good in (SD) deinterlacing? Which can be used in combination of the new motherboards?

mudwiggle

10-23-08, 07:19 AM

Yes (BD). I see little to no difference of PQ, but just in my system.

Excellent!

Do you have any software preferences for watching movie files?

Axel

10-23-08, 07:44 AM

Yes (BD). I see little to no difference of PQ, but just in my system.
Could you please share more details about our system: display type, size, etc. Also what stand alone player do you use? What refresh rate (24/60)?, Which titles did you use to compare for DVD and BR (quality of the transfers is a huge contributer of the overall PQ, at least in my setup)?.

Sorry for all those questions. I'd like to get a better understanding if I could expect at least the same level of PQ when switching from my stand alones (BD30 and XA2) to a HD HTPC. (I fully understand that a HTPC (still) needs to get dialed in carefully before it can really shine.)

Thanks much in advance!
____
Axel

renethx

10-23-08, 07:49 AM

How about NVidia Hybrid SLI? I wonder if it's worth waiting for the new 730i chipset with a Geforce 9300 IGP. Is there a NVidia card wich is good in (SD) deinterlacing? Which can be used in combination of the new motherboards?
Hybrid SLI (GeForce Boost) does not help to improve video playback performance (I mean post-processing) either.

GeForce 8600 GT/9500 GT or higher gives (almost) perfect SD/HD deinterlacing. Every mid-range system or higher in my recommendations is perfect in SD/HD deinterlacing.

renethx

10-23-08, 07:52 AM

Do you have any software preferences for watching movie files?
I usually use PDVD/TMT like everybody else.

BackLash83

10-23-08, 11:01 AM

Hybrid SLI (GeForce Boost) does not help to improve video playback performance (I mean post-processing) either.

GeForce 8600 GT/9500 GT or higher gives (almost) perfect SD/HD deinterlacing. Every mid-range system or higher in my recommendations is perfect in SD/HD deinterlacing.

I am looking for an motherboard with Firewire and Optical SPDIF (5.1 DD / DTS) in combination with an 9500GT. Which one do you prefer / recommend?

renethx

10-23-08, 11:15 AM

i am looking for an motherboard with firewire and optical spdif (5.1 dd / dts) in combination with an 9500gt. Which one do you prefer / recommend?
I recommend GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P.

BackLash83

10-23-08, 12:10 PM

I recommend GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P.

I am so sorry: I forgot to mention that it must be an mAtx board. Or is ATX highly recommended over mAtx?

renethx

10-23-08, 12:12 PM

I am so sorry: I forgot to mention that it must be an mAtx board. Or is ATX highly recommended over mAtx?
Intel or AMD?

theclear

10-23-08, 12:25 PM

CPU 45-65% with mkv 1080p means hardware acceleration by GPU does not work (perhaps because the mkv file is not properly created). Then adding a discrete graphics card is useless to decrease CPU usage. High CPU usage does not necessarily mean very high power consumption. In my system consisting of Athlon X2 4850e, GA-MA78GM-S2H, 2 x 1GB memory, onboard video, 1 x HDD and 1 x BD drive, a typical power consumption of the total system is:

- BD playback with PowerDVD: average CPU 33%, 86W
- MKV playback with CoreAVC (no HA): average CPU 80%, 98W

So the difference is only (?) 12W. (If you add a graphics card, you will see the same [or more] amount of power increase because of the additional GPU/memory!)Thanxx for your answer, i have almost the same configuration with one more HDD (samsung spinpoint 250 and 320) with no BD drive (1 DVD-RW), . I play all type of video files with MPC-HC, mkv files using MPC-HC EVR, but some mkv doesnt get HA increasing the CPU load . Why u use CoreAVC without HA enabled ? I dont whant to decrease CPU usage but , getting more video quality with all the video (avi, dvd, wmv,xvid and hd files). Is worth to buy a videocard ( radeon 4350, 4550, 4650 or 4670, all from asus)? Just curious , why u dont have one in your system? Regards from Holland. Thanxx in advance:D:D:D

renethx

10-23-08, 12:41 PM

Why u use CoreAVC without HA enabled ? I dont whant to decrease CPU usage but , getting more video quality with all the video (avi, dvd, wmv,xvid and hd files). Is worth to buy a videocard ( radeon 4350, 4550, 4650 or 4670, all from asus)? Just curious , why u dont have one in your system? Regards from Holland. Thanxx in advance:D:D:D
I usually use CoreAVC to test the CPU performance in decoding H.264 (as it does not support DXVA).

As I wrote in the previous post, a discrete card does not help much to decrease CPU usage if HA does not work. For 720p/1080p, HD 3200 is good enough. If you want to buy one, I recommend HD 4670 (HIS IceQ). The system I mentioned is one of my test systems.

spillz564

10-23-08, 12:53 PM

I've got to start by saying that this thread is great. So far I've built 6 HTPCs including one server (for my house) using recommendations from this thread. Thanks for your continued support Renethx!

I'm upgrading my graphics card using the recommended graphics card ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M and putting it into a Gigabyte mobo (GA-EP35-DS3R) that was the previously recommended mid-grade mobo.

This graphics card has HDMI out so I want to use the included SPDIF cable to connect to the SPDIF header on my mobo. But the included SPDIF cable has four wires on the mobo end (and two wires on the graphics card end).

[edit] My mobo has only a 2 prong connection. From the manual, Pin 1 is SPDIFO, and 2 is GND. (page 30 of the manual) http://asia.giga-byte.com/FileList/Manual/motherboard_manual_ga-ep35-ds3r(ds3)_e.pdf

Question: How can I modify the spdif cable included with the graphics card to fit on my mobo header?

theclear

10-23-08, 01:06 PM

I usually use CoreAVC to test the CPU performance in decoding H.264 (as it does not support DXVA).

As I wrote in the previous post, a discrete card does not help much to decrease CPU usage if HA does not work. For 720p/1080p, HD 3200 is good enough. If you want to buy one, I recommend HD 4670 (HIS IceQ). The system I mentioned is one of my test systems.
Thanxx for ur fast answer, NO i dont whant to buy one , i though that the HD 3200 couldnt handle 1080P that well ( now i know, thanxx to u, that the file i downloaded wasn't good re encoded ). Just another question to boring u, :D:D:D:D, my case is this one http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kubycsystem.com%2Fcajas-y-equipos-htpc%2Fnox-live.html&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en and im able to install 4 fans (2x 120, 2x 80), how should i install them ? 2 x120 , 1x 80 for cooling and 1 x to take the hot air? I want this cause im going to put a tv card inside (with time shift) and 1 wireless card , i download a lot of movies and i have to upload them , and my htpc will stay on almost 24/7 . What do u advise?:):)

renethx

10-23-08, 01:38 PM

This graphics card has HDMI out so I want to use the included SPDIF cable to connect to the SPDIF header on my mobo. But the included SPDIF cable has four wires on the mobo end (and two wires on the graphics card end).

[edit] My mobo has only a 2 prong connection. From the manual, Pin 1 is SPDIFO, and 2 is GND. (page 30 of the manual) http://asia.giga-byte.com/FileList/Manual/motherboard_manual_ga-ep35-ds3r(ds3)_e.pdf

Question: How can I modify the spdif cable included with the graphics card to fit on my mobo header?
You don't need to modify the cable. Connect the blue wire to pin 1 (SPDIFO) and the black wire to pin 2 (GND) of the motherboard SPDIF_O (S/PDIF Out Header). Connect the blue wire to the pin indicated by a triangular sign of the J11 connector of the card, and the black wire to the other pin. Choose Realtek Digital Output in the Sound dialog box. That's it.

renethx

10-23-08, 01:55 PM

my case is this one http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kubycsystem.com%2Fcajas-y-equipos-htpc%2Fnox-live.html&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&sl=es&tl=en and im able to install 4 fans (2x 120, 2x 80), how should i install them ? 2 x120 , 1x 80 for cooling and 1 x to take the hot air? I want this cause im going to put a tv card inside (with time shift) and 1 wireless card , i download a lot of movies and i have to upload them , and my htpc will stay on almost 24/7 . What do u advise?:):)
I think two 80mm exhaust rear fans are the minimum requirement, the side fans are optional. You can attach fans there for intake .

spillz564

10-23-08, 01:57 PM

You don't need to modify the cable. Connect the blue wire to pin 1 (SPDIFO) and the black wire to pin 2 (GND) of the motherboard SPDIF_O (S/PDIF Out Header). Connect the blue wire to the pin indicated by a triangular sign of the J11 connector of the card, and the black wire to the other pin. Choose Realtek Digital Output in the Sound dialog box. That's it.

Great, thanks! I'll give it a shot tonight when I'm playing round robin with all the video cards in various computers.

I'm sure this is a long shot but I'm guessing the best audio I can get through this is comparable to my current spdif coax connection to my receiver when playing Blu-ray right? (not counting 8 ch analog output). I'm hoping that eventually (maybe on future mobos) I'll be able to make this connection and get TrueHD and DTS_Master directly through the motherboard.

HDTimeShifter

10-23-08, 04:36 PM

BackLash83

10-23-08, 05:54 PM

Let me rephrase my actuals question. I am looking for a HTPC and I prefer a mAtx case: OrigenAE s14v. I already ordered the case and its waiting for assembling a htpc. The order actual order included a motherboard with an AMD 780g chipset and HD3200 IGPU in combination with a x4 9550 Phenom (which I wanted to undervolt (read Anandtech review about 'e' Phenoms)).

The release of the new NVidia 730i chipset with Geforce 9300 made me hesitating. I like the use of an Intel processor (lower TDP and better performance) so I was very interested. I read more about the htpc stuff and read more reviews and concluded that there isn't a good IGPU chipset (your recommendation always include a dedicated GPU). Problems with 24p (G45 / 780G / HD4670), deinterlacing (GF 9300) etcetera made me an man who is not able to choose.

I want a good solution for now: good 24p (for blu-ray), and SD HD material 7.1 LPCM is no criterion for me. (but it's a plus).

Considering al these thougts I concluded that the 9500 GT is the best solution for me. Correct me if I am wrong.

Then I wondered (because by my knowledge only DFI has a P45 matx board) I need a motherboard with an NVidia chipset. I looked in your recommendation list and you recommend an 7100 chipset with the 9500GT. But I need firewire for an FloppyDTV cable TV card.

My requirements are:

firewire
good 5.1 optical sound
mAtx
24p may not be an issue
great quality with SD and HD

I really hope you can point me to the perfect solution (I know you can cause you are Renethx ;))

jpeter15

10-23-08, 06:04 PM

Hi,
I am building an HTPC for the first time. I am not a big gamer but want the option, it will primarily be for playing movies and other HD stuff on a 50" Kuro 1080P plasma. I am doing an AMD version and am going to buy a Radeon HD card. I was going to get the SAPPHIRE Toxic 100225TXSR Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit GDDR4 but just recently read about the new 4830 card and found the SAPPHIRE 100265L Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 that costs basically the same. Does anyone have a recommendation for which is better? the former has a faster clock speed but less stream processors than the latter. Thanks for the help.
-Peter

renethx

10-23-08, 06:25 PM

I had a pair of dual channel PC6400 800MHz 2x2GB RAM (marked 1.9V) which I had to return because of a failed bit, and they RMA'd me back an almost identical set which was marked 1.8V. Does the voltage mean one set is faster or runs cooler than the other? Does the voltage even matter if I'm not planning on overclocking? How does the voltage matter, and which one is "better"?
Just set the memory voltage in BIOS to the one in the specs (otherwise memory may not run stably) and then forget about that. There is no performance difference between 1.8V and 1.9V. Surely 1.8V consumes less power, but only by a few watts.

erk48188

10-23-08, 07:11 PM

Can these HTPC's stream video out of the house over the internet, like a slingbox?

renethx

10-23-08, 07:46 PM

My requirements are:

firewire
good 5.1 optical sound
mAtx
24p may not be an issue
great quality with SD and HD

GeForce 9500 GT is a great choice for perfect PQ.

AMD

CPU: Athlon X2 4850e or Phenom X3 8450/8550/8650/8750/8850
MB: ASUS M3N78-EM (GeForce 8300) or M3A78-EM (780G) or GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H (780G, DTS Connect) or GA-MA78GPM-DS2H (780G, Dolby Home Theater).

Intel

CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 or Core 2 Duo E7200/E7300/E7400
MB: abit I-N78HD (GeForce 7100), GIGABYTE GA-73PVM-S2H (GeForce 7100), GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H (GeForce 9400, Dolby Home Theater [perhaps]) or ASUS P5Q-EM (G45).

CPU of higher model number is good when HA does not work for some reason. The chipset need not be NVIDIA (unless you want to use more than two display devices). If you choose Phenom X3 and a 780G chipset mb, you may not need a discrete graphics card because HD 3200 under Phenom performs very well. G45 also gives good PQ in both SD and HD. You can also choose a GeForce 9300/9400 mb and see if its graphics meets your requirements. So you may postpone buying a graphics card.

HT Slider

10-23-08, 07:49 PM

There are two "standard proper HDMI signals", one that ranges 16-235 YCbCr and is output by video devices and one that ranges 0-255 sRGB and is output by computer devices. If your display is a TV, it probably expects the first type, if it's a computer monitor, it probably expects the second. Many TVs and monitors can accept either type. Many computer devices and many video devices can send either type. You just need to get the display and source doing the same thing.

Actually there are really 3 "standard proper HDMI signals" as far as colorspace are concerned. Some hardware devices (such as a PS3) allow you to manually select which one out of all 3.

YCbCr (16-235 using YCbCr - this is what HDTVs and projectors require when YCbCr is used).
RGB using BT.709 (16-235 using RGB - this is what HDTVs and projectors require when RGB is used).
RGB using sRGB (0-255 using RGB - this is what PC monitors require). Note that some HDTVs can be configured to also operate in this mode, but not by "default".

Most (if not all) HDTVs/projectors with HDMI ports prefer YCbCr so when their EDID "preferentially asks" for YCbCr, this causes ATI cards to send YCbCr as long as the HDMI dongle is used. Modern HDTVs/projectors with HDMI ports will also operate fine with RGB BT.709 (16-235) such as when they are "driven" by a hardware DVR with a DVI port (video devices with DVI ports output RGB BT.709).

If an HDTV/projector's EDID "asks" for RGB, it is "asking for" RGB BT.709. Most (if not all) HDTVs/projectors with DVI ports "ask" for RGB. Unfortunately ATI currently incorrectly sends sRGB in this case.

Also, if the HDMI dongle is not used, ATI cards currently switch into essentially a "DVI PC monitor mode" where regardless of what the EDID "asks for", the card will always output sRGB (0-255).

One bit of good news. I just got an e-mail from ATI stating that they will be providing a driver update to make their cards fully HDTV/projector compliant. This means they will be able to drive HDTVs with RGB BT.709 (16-235) without us resorting to brightness/contrast "hacks". On top of this, they will also apparently fix the problem with SD video processing defaulting to sRGB instead of BT.601. I don't have a timeline, other than it 'will take a "few" driver releases'.

renethx

10-23-08, 07:58 PM

mudwiggle

10-23-08, 08:37 PM

renethx,

Would you normally pair a particular graphics card with a certain motherboard (eg. ATI with AM2+, or nVidia with intel) or does it only matter if you are trying to achieve SLI or hybrid graphics?

rsigley

10-23-08, 10:09 PM

Hi I ended up building the recommended system of:

# CPU: Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz Socket 775, $183.
# CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000, $33.
# Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM Intel G45 chipset microATX, $127.
# Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $65.
# Graphics Card: HIS H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850, $166 (after rebate).
# HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $77.
# PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX, $52 (after rebate).
# Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black, $147.

Does anyone have problems with space in regards to the HIS H485QT512P? I can't get it to fit into the case where I can screw it down and with all the wires its really cramped in there. So its plugged into the space but its not screwed down

Was wondering if its really necessary to play blu-ray movies with this setup or can I take it out and free up some space? Or does anyone have any tricks to get everything to fit nicer? Thanks

renethx

10-24-08, 02:42 AM

Would you normally pair a particular graphics card with a certain motherboard (eg. ATI with AM2+, or nVidia with intel) or does it only matter if you are trying to achieve SLI or hybrid graphics?
Discrete vs integrated does not matter for 720p/1080p (including BD). If you look for the best PQ in both SD and HD, a mid-range discrete card (or higher) is recommended (e.g. GeForce 9500 GT/HD 4670). SLI/Hybrid SLI/CF/Hybrid CF is useful only for games.

BackLash83

10-24-08, 05:04 AM

GeForce 9500 GT is a great choice for perfect PQ.

AMD

CPU: Athlon X2 4850e or Phenom X3 8450/8550/8650/8750/8850
MB: ASUS M3N78-EM (GeForce 8300) or M3A78-EM (780G) or GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H (780G, DTS Connect) or GA-MA78GPM-DS2H (780G, Dolby Home Theater).

Intel

CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 or Core 2 Duo E7200/E7300/E7400
MB: abit I-N78HD (GeForce 7100), GIGABYTE GA-73PVM-S2H (GeForce 7100), GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H (GeForce 9400, Dolby Home Theater [perhaps]) or ASUS P5Q-EM (G45).

CPU of higher model number is good when HA does not work for some reason. The chipset need not be NVIDIA (unless you want to use more than two display devices). If you choose Phenom X3 and a 780G chipset mb, you may not need a discrete graphics card because HD 3200 under Phenom performs very well. G45 also gives good PQ in both SD and HD. You can also choose a GeForce 9300/9400 mb and see if its graphics meets your requirements. So you may postpone buying a graphics card.

Thank you Renethx!

My complete configuration is:

GigaByte GA-73PVM-S2H
Colorful GeForce 9500 GT 512 MB, PCI-e 16x
Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 2.66 GHz, 1066 MHz, 3 MB, Boxed
Enermax MODU82+ 425 Watt, 20+24 Pins, 80 Plus Rating
WD Caviar Green 1 TB, 7200 Rpm, 16 MB, S-ATA II/300
LG GGC-H20L Hybrid S-ATA, Bulk, Zwart
Digital Everywhere DVB-C FloppyDTV
Digital Everywhere CAM AlphaCrypt DVB-C
OrigenAE S14V Black, NO PSU
Kingston ValueRam Dual Channel 4 GB, PC6400, 800 MHz, 5, Kit Of 2
Scythe Ninja Mini
Microsoft Windows Vista 64 Bit SP1 Home Premium, UK, OEM

Thanks for all your input!!

proufo

10-24-08, 11:03 AM

Hi Renethx,
Sorry to repeat this question, but...

Have you compared the picture quality of a HTPC with a stand alone DVD or blu-ray player at any stage? Not that it will make any difference to my build as you can't beat the versatility of a HTPC. A top upconverting (say, HQV) DVD player will outperform an HTPC in PQ. Of course you will need an HD display with HDMI connection to notice it but that's pretty much standard by now.

FredsterB

10-24-08, 04:08 PM

I'm interested in building an HTPC and i have finally found the case i want, Origen AE S14V in Black. I read an article about the ATI 4550 and i was quite intrigued about it, especially it being passively cooled and can encode HD movies without a problem.

I am looking for a quiet (passively cooled), low-energy card but still that has the juice to handle HD movies. I am no gamer, so this HTPC won't be dealing with any hardcore games (ok, maybe something like Spore at tops!:))

I would very very much appreciate if somebody could recommend some other parts that i will be needing, i prefer Intel-ATI setup:-) Would the ATI 4550 be a wise choice or are there other passively cooled graphics cards that i should know/think of?

What i want the HTPC to be:
*Quiet
*Low energy consumption
*Powerful/efficient
*HD DVD/ BD compatible
*Handle all the new audio formats

I have a two year old iMac and i love it! I wish there was something like this available as HTPC, it powerful enough (for me), absolutely silent and draws around 65-70W under full load and mointor off. <-- so this would be sort of my goal....is it doable? Obviously, i would dust off my almost two year old unused copy of Vista Home Premium and be running on that.

Thanks you all for any kind of input! Greatly appreciated!

The article i talked about earlier: http://hothardware.com/Articles/ATI-Radeon-HD-4550-Budget-DX101-GPU/?page=1

renethx

10-24-08, 04:09 PM

A top upconverting (say, HQV) DVD player will outperform an HTPC in PQ. Of course you will need an HD display with HDMI connection to notice it but that's pretty much standard by now.
Hi proufo, all the current midrange to high-end graphics cards pass HQV Benchmark with the perfect score of 130 out of 130. (How is your Matrox G550?) I am interested in reading anything backing up your claim.

renethx

10-24-08, 04:24 PM

What i want the HTPC to be:
*Quiet
*Low energy consumption
*Powerful/efficient
*HD DVD/ BD compatible
*Handle all the new audio formats
Any of the mATX - low-end - Intel/Intel, Intel/NVIDIA, AMD/AMD systems should be good for your purpose. In AMD/AMD system, you can choose MSI HD 4350 (passive cooling). Use Scythe Ninja Mini for CPU passive cooling. All the new HD audio formats are decoded to LPCM, then sent over HDMI.

FredsterB

10-24-08, 04:47 PM

Any of the mATX - low-end - Intel/Intel, Intel/NVIDIA, AMD/AMD systems should be good for your purpose. In AMD/AMD system, you can choose MSI HD 4350 (passive cooling). Use Scythe Ninja Mini for CPU passive cooling. All the new HD audio formats are decoded to LPCM, then sent over HDMI.

Thanks for your reply! You mention mATX's, does it mean there's no Intel/ATI(AMD) boards? Sorry for the noob question:o

I also forgot to mention that i will also most likely every now and then run some F@H or Boinc, so the CPU (and GPU) will be at times under some heavy loads. Thanks for the Scythe Ninja tip, that's really nice thing to know and are really valuable for/us not-so-experienced people.

Would something like an Intel E5200, be ok? I'm not really that "price sensitive", i rather spend a bit more to get quality parts, that is for me more important, as i have never believed that cheap and good can go hand-in-hand. If you want cheap and good, you have to buy two products, one cheap and one good:) And i think if one is prepared to pay a bit more form the beginning on, one has better chances in getting it right from the start:)

**Update** Renethx, i just noticed your signature and found some really AWESOME material! Boy, have you put some effort in that!! Jeez! But thanks for that man, that is some really really amazing info you have there really what i've been looking for!!:) Thanks a bunch!!!

boxz

10-24-08, 07:46 PM

Very Nice guide, I think I can relate to a lot, when I begins building my HTPC

renethx

10-25-08, 02:53 AM

You mention mATX's, does it mean there's no Intel/ATI(AMD) boards? Sorry for the noob question:o

Would something like an Intel E5200, be ok? I'm not really that "price sensitive", i rather spend a bit more to get quality parts, that is for me more important, as i have never believed that cheap and good can go hand-in-hand. If you want cheap and good, you have to buy two products, one cheap and one good:) And i think if one is prepared to pay a bit more form the beginning on, one has better chances in getting it right from the start:)
AMD (ATI) quit producing chipsets for Intel CPU after ATI was aquired by AMD.

You can choose E7200/E7300/E7400/E8400/E8500. Any of them runs very cool and can be cooled passively.

10-25-08, 08:38 AM

Hi proufo, all the current midrange to high-end graphics cards pass HQV Benchmark with the perfect score of 130 out of 130. (How is your Matrox G550?) I am interested in reading anything backing up your claim.

No doubt. I've never heard anyone make the claim that a standalone player could compete with a properly configured HTPC. In my case if Blu Ray is all I wanted I would simply buy a PS3. However, I still find the need to archive many of my SD DVDs. For me that is where the real improvement comes from. Post processing a SD DVD can do wonders for picture quality over any standalone player I've ever heard of but I'm all ears :) Trust me, I would rather not build another HTPC if someone could actually prove to me a standalone player does a better job of upconverting than a HTPC.

jimwhite

10-25-08, 08:55 AM

put it this way.... my HTPC and my PS3 are on the same rack... when I want to watch an SD movie these days, I fire up the projector, dim the lights, pop the disk into the PS3, and relax....

:D

Tom_N

10-25-08, 11:29 AM

Hello everyone,

I just finished building my 1st PC (specs are below) and I have an audio problem. I am not getting audio out via S/PDIF. Audio works through HDMI but I don’t have an HDMI capable receiver so I need the S/PDIF. Audio also works through the headphone output.

I have tried installing, uninstalling and reinstalling drivers from numerous sources most recently from the from RealTek site. Everything appears to be working properly. Through the RealTek HD audio manager I am able to switch between HDMI and the digital output. Visually it indicates it is sending out a signal.

I’m wondering if I didn’t connect something properly. When attaching the audio cable from the case to the MOBO there were tow possible connections: AC’97 and HD Audio. I’m using the HD Audio connector. Could I have missed something else or perhaps a BIOS setting?

I have also tested receiver to insure that it is not the specific input, cable etc.

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I haven’t even tried out the BD player yet. I figure deal with one problem area at a time.

Rene – Thanks for all the effort you’ve put into this thread. Back on pp. 130, post #3894 you provided advice to someone with a similar problem. It seems like most of those suggestions were to enable to audio out via HDMI. I’m wondering if it is worth trying all that for my situation (I think I’ve installed most of them but off hand I’m not sure) or if I have to reinstall Vista.

Thanks
Tom

Case: Silverstone LC20M.
MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS4P -I’ll need S/PDIF output for at least the next 6 months
CPU: Core 2 Duo E8200 2.66GHz Socket 775
Graphics Card: HIS H467QS512P Radeon HD 4670
Memory: 2-4 Gigs. Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Optical: LITE-ON DH-4O1S BD-ROM Drive
PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX
OS: Vista Home Premium 64 bit (ordered by mistake )

renethx

10-25-08, 11:54 AM

When attaching the audio cable from the case to the MOBO there were tow possible connections: AC’97 and HD Audio. I’m using the HD Audio connector. Could I have missed something else or perhaps a BIOS setting?
This is the point of confusion for me. How do you connect Realtek ALC889A to you receiver? The mb has coaxial and optical S/PDIF. Don't you use them?

mrphillc

10-25-08, 12:28 PM

Can anyone tell me what you think of this setup?

ECS GF8200A (V1.0) AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8200 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135085)
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042)
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2400 Brisbane 2.3GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual-Core Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103215)
EVGA 512-P3-N954-TR GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130378)
Thermaltake W0093RU 500W ATX 12V 2.0 Version Passive PFC Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153028)

+ some whatever random memory/harddrives i can find/already have

on newegg, the prices are:
motherboard: $69.99 - $10 mail in rebate
cpu + case combo: $69.94
video board + power supply: $114.98 - $15 rebate - $30 rebate

which makes $254.91 in cart, and $55 in rebates.

add coupon 20ANTEC and take another $10.99 off

any adjustments/incompatibilities/better deals/things im not thinking of?
thanks

Speqtre

10-25-08, 01:01 PM

mrphillc

10-25-08, 01:07 PM

im thinking just for video playing to the tv, is onboard video for HD an option? i was just getting the video board because of the recommended stuff in this thread.

Tom_N

10-25-08, 01:08 PM

This is the point of confusion for me. How do you connect Realtek ALC889A to you receiver? The mb has coaxial and optical S/PDIF. Don't you use them?

Sorry for the confusion. I'm using the optical output.

Tom

renethx

10-25-08, 01:51 PM

Sorry for the confusion. I'm using the optical output.
If your receiver's optical S/PDIF input (and the cable) is OK, then check the connection. Do you see red light through the cable? I would try coaxial cable too. If the coaxial S/PDIF works, then the problem is specific to optical. If coaxial does not work, then perhaps the onboard audio codec is malfunctioning (software or hardware). Do you hear analog audio from the analog ports of the mb's rear panel?

renethx

10-25-08, 02:07 PM

ECS GF8200A (V1.0) AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8200 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135085)
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042)
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2400 Brisbane 2.3GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Dual-Core Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103215)
EVGA 512-P3-N954-TR GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130378)
Thermaltake W0093RU 500W ATX 12V 2.0 Version Passive PFC Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153028)
Basically fine. I think CPU is OEM, that means you need a CPU cooler. Check the noise of the PSU in customer reivews. Do you use S/PDIF or analog or HDMI (to a receiver)?

Speqtre

10-25-08, 02:15 PM

Basically fine. I think CPU is OEM, that means you need a CPU cooler. Check the noise of the PSU in customer reivews. Do you use S/PDIF or analog or HDMI (to a receiver)?

Would he be better off with the Asus 780g and the low-end Phenom, dropping the video card?

renethx

10-25-08, 02:35 PM

Would he be better off with the Asus 780g and the low-end Phenom, dropping the video card?
9500 GT is still better in video playback (I mean HQV Benchmark). IGP can't beat a disrete GPU with enough stream processors. He also chose components wisely in terms of cost. CPU is only $40 with further $25 discount when purchased with Antec 300 (the cheapest Phenom is $100). The EVGA 9500 GT is $50 with $25 discount when purchased with PSU. My only worry is PSU noise (several users reported very loud noise at load). I prefer CMPSU-450VX (+$35 in total cost), but it's up to him.

mrphillc

10-25-08, 05:18 PM

replacing with

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817103942
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371007
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052

only swings cost a few bucks, and they have better reviews

i tried to build a machine using the asus 780g, but i kept ending up with $350+ after everything

renethx

10-25-08, 05:28 PM

mrphillc

10-25-08, 06:06 PM

EarthWatts may become loud (similar to your original Thermaltake PSU).

hmmmm, alright

here is my config, now, i might pull the trigger soon... some of the deals expire on the 31st

ECS GF8200A (V1.0) AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8200 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135085)
COOLER MASTER DK8-9GD4A-0L-GP 95mm CPU Cooler - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103050)
Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042)
AMD Athlon X2 BE-2400 Brisbane 2.3GHz Socket AM2 Dual-Core Processor Model ADH2400IAA5DO - OEM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103215)
EVGA 512-P3-N954-TR GeForce 9500 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130378)
Thermaltake Purepower W0100RU 500W ATX 12V 2.0 Power Supply - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153052)

all that with a tube of artic silver, and $13.84 shipping totals to $253.74, then ill wait for $45 in mail in rebates

i calculated smallest cost possible with the previously mentioned asus 730g... but i ended up with prices $100 higher....
but that setup had a better cpu (cheapest phenom... comes with a heatsync though), but atleast in this setup i have better video.
im hoping the cpu will suffice
i guess worse case scenario, if it turns out the cpu sucks, i can just keep an eye on slickdeals for a better cpu

edit: i think that thing explaning hdmi sound with the 8200 earlier in the thread solves my sound too

shiftybugger

10-26-08, 03:48 AM

Hi all.

I've been reading threads on this site and others for a week and my eyes are bleeding. Time for me to put some questions to people for experienced than I. Renethx, this thread is awesome. Any input you can supply my questions would be greatly appreciated. Some questions (particularly Linux related) may be out of the scope of this thread - if so, tell me and I'll take it graciously =) I'll try to keep this coherent, not sure how successful I'll be at that...

I am in the process of building a media storage server. The server would be running some flavour of Linux, running software raid 6 (if it isn't too taxing on the CPU - raid 5 if it is). The intent is that the server will run 24/7, run various lightweight server apps like **********, will have a TV tuner to record and play OTA HD and SD TV and run something like MythTV to serve a couple of TVs.

It is probably going to be sitting in the living room and would probably be quieter than the Xbox that I am using as a HTPC now so I figured that I may as well have the server double as a HD HTPC as the Xbox can't do h264 and other HD stuff.

If I did make the server double as a HTPC, I'd probably be running XBMC for Linux to handle things (wifey likes the familiar). That would be the extent of its duties. No 3d power required at all.

I have no preference for AMD or Intel. The decision would probably be made by motherboard features and cost.

My build would probably look something like (only existing parts are set in stone):
Case: NZXT Whisper
PSU: Corsair HX620 (existing)
RAM: 4gb Kingston DDR800 HyperX (existing)
HDDs: an IDE OS drive and a bunch of SATAII 750gb for raid (existing)
Mobo: Something like the GA-EP35-DS3P (8 SATA ports and multi PCIe are nice considering it's a server - but IGP might be nice? Would prefer a board with optical SPDIF out)
CPU: E8400? (looks like hardware acceleration on graphics card does not work with XBMC. So I will need the CPU to do all the work I assume.)
Graphics: ? XBMC can't harness hardware acceleration, should I bother? Are there IGPs worth looking at? HDMI output would be nice too. I have a 6600gt or 8800gt I could use. I'd like to have a single HDMI connection to TV that takes the sound as well (might not be possible in Linux) so that's a consideration as well.
Sound card: Onboard would suffice unless the above precludes it.

So:
1. Is there any other hardware I would need to add to make it a HTPC?
2. What motherboard/CPU/Graphics cards would you suggest given my constraints?
3. Does anyone know of a motherboard with 8 SATA ports, 2xPCIe (x4+), 2xPCIe(x1), decent onboard sound with optical out?
4. Any suggestions on a TV card that will work in Linux, work with MythTV/SageTV and doesn't cost a million dollars? Remember it only needs to grab OTA channels, no cable or anything.

Large first post, I know. All opinions appreciated.

Kris

renethx

10-26-08, 12:52 PM

...
Hardware selection is tied closely to Linux and Linux is out of my scope right now. Maybe somebody else can reply. I believe you'd get many answers if you start your own thread ...

FredsterB

10-26-08, 01:42 PM

Ok, i'm finally narrowing down the parts needed for building my HTPC. The parts so far are:

*Case: Origen ae S14V Black (http://www.origenae.com/en/htpc_s14v.htm)
*Motherboard: Asus M3A78-EM (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=639&l4=0&model=2252&modelmenu=1) Not 100% sure on this one? Does there exist an updated version of this or is this the latest?
*Processor: AMD Atholn X2 4850e (http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=426)
*GPU: HIS HD 4650 iSilence 4 (http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=404&view=yes) I was going to go with the HD4550 passive, but it's not for sale yet here in Germany (atleast i haven't found), so decided to go with the 4650 instead
*CPU Cooler: Scythe Mini Ninja (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/032/scmnj1000_detail.html)
*Harddrive: WD GP 640GB (http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=565) I actually wanted to go with a 2,5" HDD, but i think that's not possible....:confused:
*DVD-Player: LG GGC-H20L (http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/ggc-h20l.jhtml)
*TV-Card: Terratec Cinergy PCI HD (http://www.terratec.net/en/products/Cinergy_C_PCI_HD_1976.html)

*RAM: Still open
*PSU: Still open, trying to find a silent and efficient PSU

I will most likely pull the trigger next week and order the parts. If there is something that seems like a total fail, please let me know!:) If anyody knows any good RAM and a good silent and effiecient PSU, please let me know:)

Thanks a bunch!

AlexG883

10-27-08, 01:46 AM

I'm new to HTPC but taking the plunge. I'm ordering the mATX AMD/AMD system as described on page 85 with the M3A78-EM mobo. I'm also ordering VISTA Home Premium 64-bit which can make use of more memory. I see that newegg has a great deal on Corsair 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Memory. $40 shipped after rebate for two sticks: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
Will this Corsair memory play well with the M3A78 ? I'll be using an Antec 2480 case so heat shouldn't be an issue. Thanks.

renethx

10-27-08, 03:07 AM

*Case: Origen ae S14V Black (http://www.origenae.com/en/htpc_s14v.htm)
*Motherboard: Asus M3A78-EM (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=639&l4=0&model=2252&modelmenu=1) Not 100% sure on this one? Does there exist an updated version of this or is this the latest?
*Processor: AMD Atholn X2 4850e (http://products.amd.com/en-us/DesktopCPUDetail.aspx?id=426)
*GPU: HIS HD 4650 iSilence 4 (http://www.hisdigital.com/html/product_ov.php?id=404&view=yes) I was going to go with the HD4550 passive, but it's not for sale yet here in Germany (atleast i haven't found), so decided to go with the 4650 instead
*CPU Cooler: Scythe Mini Ninja (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/cpu/032/scmnj1000_detail.html)
*Harddrive: WD GP 640GB (http://www.westerndigital.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=565) I actually wanted to go with a 2,5" HDD, but i think that's not possible....:confused:
*DVD-Player: LG GGC-H20L (http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/ggc-h20l.jhtml)
*TV-Card: Terratec Cinergy PCI HD (http://www.terratec.net/en/products/Cinergy_C_PCI_HD_1976.html)

*RAM: Still open
*PSU: Still open, trying to find a silent and efficient PSU

I will most likely pull the trigger next week and order the parts. If there is something that seems like a total fail, please let me know!:) If anyody knows any good RAM and a good silent and effiecient PSU, please let me know:)
You can use a 2.5" drive with an internal 3.5" bay enclosure for a 2.5" SATA drive. See my recommendations for RAM and PSU.

renethx

10-27-08, 03:10 AM

mudwiggle

10-27-08, 08:23 AM

renethx

10-27-08, 10:35 AM

Renethx,

Having established there is an SD processing advantage by using the HD 4670 over the HD 4550, is there any advantage in using the HD 4670 over the HD 4650 if picture quality is the only concern?
The advantage of HD 4670 over HD 4550 in SD post-processing is clear. I haven't tested HD 4650, but perhaps HD 4650 = HD 4670 in video playback.

audionewer

10-27-08, 10:47 AM

so does that mean 4550 and 3450 is the same picture quality when in post processing.

renethx

10-27-08, 11:02 AM

so does that mean 4550 and 3450 is the same picture quality when in post processing.
No, 4550 is perfect in HD deinterlacing while 3450 is poor.

Kreez

10-27-08, 11:08 AM

renethx

10-27-08, 11:23 AM

I'll be upgrading my HTPC to something that supports HD soon.
I don't want to deal with fiddling with HA, so I'm just going to use an E6300 (old chip from my desktop, I'll upgrade my desktop to an E8400 I think), which should be plenty of power to decode h264 without needing help from HA.

That being said, is there any reason for me to be looking at the G45 motherboards? If I'm not going to be using the improved video, do they have anything else to offer over the G35's? Is there something even cheaper I should consider? I need mATX.
E6300 1.86GHz 2MB L2 cache is underpowered for BD playback without HA. You have to overclock it.

The difference between G35 and G45 is HD post-processing besides HA. If you are going to buy a mb with IGP, you should also consider GeForce 9300/9400.

Kreez

10-27-08, 11:52 AM

E6300 1.86GHz 2MB L2 cache is underpowered for BD playback without HA. You have to overclock it.

The difference between G35 and G45 is HD post-processing besides HA. If you are going to buy a mb with IGP, you should also consider GeForce 9300/9400.
Thanks for the quick response.

For now I'm just going to be playing back h264 rips pulled from my HD-DVR on another computer. The 6300 has never even stuttered playing any of them back before. (Mostly they are 720p rips of sporting events that I watch on my desktop, but I'd like to be able to start watching them on my TV). By the time I can afford to start collecting Bluray movies, I'm sure I'll have the E8400 available for the HTPC :)

I also don't do any post-processing. Also did not mention that audio through HDMI is not needed, I'm fine with just having it sent SPDIF to the reciever, or even via 2ch analog out, as long as there is no onboard interference noise.

I'm thinking that because of all this, that any mATX board even 2 or 3 generations old should work fine, as long as it supports C2D, has DVI, and is stable.

Of course finding a board like that at a price that is well below the cost of the G45/9200/9300 boards is seemingly harder than I thought. :( No point in buying older hardware if it isn't going to save me money.
edit: looks like I'm not going to find anything for a really great deal, I'll probably just go with the Asus G45, unless I can find someone unloading their used Asus G35 after an upgrade to the p5q-em

mudwiggle

10-27-08, 04:35 PM

The advantage of HD 4670 over HD 4550 in SD post-processing is clear. I haven't tested HD 4650, but perhaps HD 4650 = HD 4670 in video playback.

I would imagine that the post processing is similar due to the same number of stream processors....just a slower clock speed with the HD 4650....

HDTimeShifter

10-27-08, 04:45 PM

This was easily fixed with nLite which is free. nLite allows you to slipstream a service pack into your current XP install (plus do a lot more..) so that the full size of the HD is recognized. I did this last night and it worked perfect. Just download nLite (free) and download the SP you want (I used SP3). nLite will ask for each and you can then create an ISO for burning a new install CD with the SP built in. Thanks to renethx for pointing out nLite to me.

Over the weekend I created an ISO from XP (no SP), then slipstreamed SP1a, and slipstreamed SP3, then burned a CD. But when I tried to re-install Windows with the CD, it kept failing, twice with a .CAB 3 file error, and twice with something about a corrupted disk (I think it was referencing the hard disk, not the CD). I'm not sure if the error was because of a bad Nero burn or a problem with the slipstream. After several hours or retrying, I gave up and went back to my original non-SP install, which worked. Then I tried using the slipstreamed CD to update to XP3, but it failed again, complaining that pcmcia.??? was missing, but I had specifically told nLite I didn't need pcmcia.

Speqtre

10-27-08, 10:14 PM

Renethx,

if one wants to use an Intel cpu in a mATX build, but will be using a 4670 card, what MB gives the best bang for the buck? Would it be the abit I-N73HD recommended in your guide?

Thx!

renethx

10-28-08, 04:18 AM

Renethx,

if one wants to use an Intel cpu in a mATX build, but will be using a 4670 card, what MB gives the best bang for the buck? Would it be the abit I-N73HD recommended in your guide?
abit I-N73HD is only $63 (http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec_v2.asp?scriteria=BA24664). The only drawback is single channel memory controller, but it hardly affects video playback performance. (The latest E0 stepping is not be supported yet.) If you insist on dual channel memory, then GIGABYTE GA-G31M-ES2L (G31) is a good cheap board. Intel DG35EC (G35) is a decent board (BIOS options are scarce). ASUS P5Q-EM (G45) is expensive but I like it even with a discrete card. I hope there will be released good GeForce 9300 mATX boards around $100.

chashint

10-28-08, 04:29 PM

I looked through some of this thread and did not find any info in regards to laptops, it is probably here but there are a lot of pages to work through.
I have been considering getting a laptop computer, but the only way to get any real value out of it would be to use it with the HDTV.
In that capacity it would be used as a DVR for off air recording, NETFLIX instant view, online episodes of prime time TV, and if I get the green light from this forum I might go ahead and add a Blu-Ray drive to the machine.
The computer would interface to the TV with HDMI.
The machine I have targeted is this:
HP Pavilion Entertainment dv4t customizable Notebook PC
– Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (32-bit)
– Core2 Duo P7350 (2.0GHz)
– 14.1" WXGA Hi-Defi LED Display (1280 x 800)
– 3GB DDR2 System Memory (2 Dimm)
– Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
– 320GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
– Intel Wireless-G
– SuperMulti 8X DVD+/-R/RW with Double Layer Support
– HP Integrated HDTV Hybrid Tuner

The video card could be upgraded to 512MB NVIDIA GeForce 9200M GS but unless that really gets me something just having the integrated graphics would be easier on battery life when we use the computer on airplanes.
There are several higher performance CPUs available too (P8400, P8600, P9400) but unless a better CPU is necessary I would rather keep the cost down.

I can spend the money and max out the components available if it is needed, but I don't need bragging rights for the system spec, I just need it get the job done without being a problem child.
Plus I don't really have a feel for how powerful any of the laptop components are. Maybe even with the CPU and the video maxed out this computer is a poor choice for use as a HTPC.

If it makes any difference in the recommendations you might have, the TV is a Samsung 56" 720p DLP that is two or three years old.

Thanks in advance for any inputs I may receive.

leiff

10-28-08, 06:09 PM

Hi folks, I'm needing a quiet cpu cooler and PSU to complete my sff HTPC build using P5q-em board and Silverstone SG02B-F case. Wondering if the zalaman 8700 cpu fan is close to as quiet as I can fit? This seems to be rated very quiet at it's lowewst 1100 rpm fan level on frostytech.com. My current Apevia 500w PSU sounds loud to me. I'm just hoping a replacement will be better. I would like at least 500 w for future gaming, but sound/noise is key here. Someone recomended the Corsair HX520 or 620w version. A little pricey but worth it? Alternatives just as quiet?

renethx

10-28-08, 07:31 PM

FXTMatt

10-29-08, 08:23 AM

Basically you can't replace DVR with a PC. Read the TV tuner section at page 1.

Okay, now I am confused. What is the purpose of an HTPC if DVRs are better? What is it that an HTPC can do that DVR and an AV processor cannot? I was going to experiment cuz I like gadgets and it sounded like fun. Is it just a gadgetty thing or is there some real benefits to running an HTPC over a good AV system with surround sound and a cable DVR?

renethx

10-29-08, 08:38 AM

Okay, now I am confused. What is the purpose of an HTPC if DVRs are better? What is it that an HTPC can do that DVR and an AV processor cannot? I was going to experiment cuz I like gadgets and it sounded like fun. Is it just a gadgetty thing or is there some real benefits to running an HTPC over a good AV system with surround sound and a cable DVR?

The Beginner's Guide to the HTPC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=847560) may be helpful to understand what HTPC can do.

bokis

10-29-08, 09:55 AM

What is the differens between the memory configuration on Hd4550/4650/4670
cards 1gb vs 512 gddr3 ddr3 ddr2 in a htpc and no gaming, I do stream iptv fotball/soccer.
I still consider an Ati solution, even if my Onkyo 576 at the moment ends up as a dvi device :mad:

My dentist is ripping me of any way so I can wait to see if the rumour about the cat 8.11 should fix some Hdmi problem :rolleyes:

Mb Gigabyte 780g cpu 4850e 4x1gb memory

risk1994

10-29-08, 11:09 AM

renethx

10-29-08, 11:43 AM

What is the differens between the memory configuration on Hd4550/4650/4670
cards 1gb vs 512 gddr3 ddr3 ddr2 in a htpc and no gaming, I do stream iptv fotball/soccer.
I still consider an Ati solution, even if my Onkyo 576 at the moment ends up as a dvi device :mad:
Video memory is a temporary storage space for video images while processing them. For video playback, DDR2 512MB is enough. If you consider rendering 3D images, better memory may be helpful.

bokis

10-29-08, 11:54 AM

Video memory is a temporary storage space for video images while processing them. For video playback, DDR2 512MB is enough. If you consider rendering 3D images, better memory may be helpful.

Thanks!
That makes things less complicated, http://www.myp2p.eu/don´t use video memory right?

Moritzio

10-29-08, 12:39 PM

renethx

10-29-08, 12:42 PM

Can someone explain post processing exactly? Is this something that happens in whatever software is displaying the video? And if so are there any issues with such and such an app vs, amd intel etc.. or is it somewhere in the hardware layer independent of software? It seems like much emphasis is placed on post processing and Im not sure what it is or how its implemented.
Post-processing is a general term of image processing methods done after the decoding process (hence 'post') used in video playback, including:

- telecine/inverse telecine (or pulldown/pullup, related to film)
- deinterlacing (DVD, SD & HD TV)
- sharpening
- denoise
- upscaling (from SD to HD)

They can be done by hardware (GPU, display, video processor) or software (software player, codecs etc.). If your concern is BD (1080p) playback, you can mostly neglect post-processing in HTPC because what you need is decoding the contents faithfully to the original and sending them to the display in 1:1 pixel mapping. HD (1080i) post-processing is also relatively easy (sort of) if you choose a right GPU. SD post-processing is a bit complicated/difficult (partly because 'good' post-processing is defined by the subjective PQ to the viewer’s eyes) and people have spent lots of efforts in this area (look at the sticky thread "FFdshow Walkthrough").

qthai99

10-29-08, 02:06 PM

renethx

10-29-08, 03:00 PM

Renethx,

I was going to get the Norco 4020 but then I saw the HP mediasmart server. I'm thinking of adding an external enclosure to my existing server through esata. Is there a small case the size of the mediasmart. If I can keep it small, I can fit it in my linen closet (12" depth) where I keep the modem and router. What I would like to accomplish is something ike the iStarUSA iAGE1020ES-PM Tower 10-bay eSATA Port Multiplier Enclosure -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816215088. If I don't need speed, perhaps I could go the usb route with the enclosure?
Perhaps AMS DS-2350S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817332017) is the best solution. You may use the eSATA port of your system, but perhaps you will have to use the bundled SiI3132 eSATA PCIe x1 controller card for reliable operation. The iStarUSA case you mentioned also requires a SiI3132 eSATA PCIe x1 controller card (has to be purchased seperately). Rosewill RSV-S8 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132016) is similar to the iStarUSA case, but is bundled with a SiI3132 PCIe x1 controller card. Addonics (http://www.addonics.com/products/raid_system/mst4.asp) offers similar solutions (including USB interface).

spinportal

10-29-08, 03:39 PM

My old HTPC (A4200X2 - 6600GT - AGP/PATA) died so it's time to start a new project. It drove a 50" plasma for 1900x1080 goodness via HDMI, and was able to do a fair bit of gaming (MMORPGs, MAME, ePSXe, etc.) and was a hassle to deal with mini-stereo / RCA audio jacks to the plasma which I later sent to a Pioneer stereo receiver as AUX input. (Another side project is to understand the next type of receiver to get if the Pioneer dies with all the Dolby, etc options, plus optical jacks) The limitation was HDD size and Wireless-G to a larger NAS for a multimedia jukebox to push 720p content. Even 480p was a crapshoot, and dealing with swapping CD/DVDs from the ol' library was annoying. Instead of going for the TOMACRO or TiVX and lose some gaming functionality and a BluRay drive (which is ironic to me as this HTPC box can replace my DiVX Phillips) to retain h.264 / VC-1 (where can you find a BR set-top player that plays home videos on BR discs as h.264 files like the DiVX Phillips?)

ATI Remote Wonder
BTC Keyboard
TrendNet USB-Wireless G TEW-424UB

*NEW
Shuttle SG31G2 (250 W but 70-75 % eff) [$224]
intel E7200 2.53 GHz [$118]
ASUS 4760 Radeon HD [$80] ($10 rebate)
2x2GB (4GB) DDR2-800 PNY XLR8 (4-4-4-12 2.0V) [$60]
Seagate 750GB HDD SATA [$100]
Lite ON 4X Blu-Ray ROM DVD SATA drive [$95]
Total Build Budget: $677

I decided against re-using any PATA drives in the new build, hoping that the newer components would sip less juice and have better throughput / bandwidth, and why deal with components that can near their EOL.

The choice of the Shuttle over a contemporary design for the living room was made with cost conscienious (ed. sp) in mind. The Athlon builds are $300+ compared to the intel version. For reliability and design, I'm familiar with Shuttle twice already, so I forfeited style. The alternative could be ASUS or MSI, but not many reviews. Or Silverstone, but then I have to resort to getting a mATX board, cooling solution and PSU and deal with a longer body which won't beat the SG31G2's overall price.

I was contemplating the 4830 HD, but it draws a significant +50W more in 3D gaming [+$50, ~20% gaming performance], and not sure if that would stress the 250W Shuttle PS for early failure (sadly its extra cost to put a 300W PS in which makes me lazy in checking if the SG31G2 will support that PS model). Will the GPGPU applications for encoding come to the 4000 series and short-change this choice over a 9800GT (a bit more power usage [+20W], a bit more money [+$20] and a bit more muscle [~10%])?

Sure I can skimp on the RAM to 2GB with CAS 5 for $20 bucks, but the plan is to install Vista 64-bit Home Premium eventually (I can replace Ultimate's remote desktop server with free VNC and I don't consider any other elements compelling for a HTPC build). At 2GB, the consensus is Vista feels cramped, so 4GB would give it the headroom it needs, plus the $20 premium feels justified to keep the box useful for 3-5 (maybe more) years.

The E7200 should have enough muscle to make Vista feel snappy with Media Center, push 1080p content with PowerDVD-HD, and play the occasional MMORPG, Space-Sim, emulate PSOne and encode video from the PVR (SA8300HD) / firewire to save space (rather than get an eSATA HDD enclosure / extender and have more gadgets / plugs / wattage). The next step down E5200 might be straining to keep up.
The choice of the Shuttle XPC barebone limits to a 775 socket, instead of the AMD camp, but the X2 6000+ ($92) loses to the E5200 ($85), so the price comparable X2 5600+ ($80) is a pass. Seems the E7200 is a powerful CPU which sips power nicely.

As far as the BR-ROM, there is a huge ($70) premium to play BR over DVD, but there are only $200+ BR set top players.

For the HDD, some people hate Seagate, some love 'em, so it's really how much space is enough space. Considering praying that draft-n wireless can push 1080p from a NAS, or just put the jukebox locally and sneer at media servicing + wireless technology, $99 for 750 GB is quite cost effective "within a budget (*)". Recent reviews on 1.5TB HDDs had some issues with performance.
500GB = $80 (0.16/GB)
750GB = $100 (0.13/GB)
1000GB = $140 (0.14/GB)
1500GB = $180 (0.12/GB)*

Any tweaks, comments on misconceptions are welcome.

Thanks for "listening"

Briands

10-29-08, 04:44 PM

I have an ABIT F-190HD with an E4400 (no overclock).

I'd like to spend a little bit to get this up to snuff to play BR/ HD-DVD and HD PVR files (including deinterlacing) at 1080P.

Would money be best spent on a new processor or Video card?

Any suggestions?

renethx

10-29-08, 05:09 PM

qthai99

10-29-08, 05:37 PM

Thanks renethx,

I think I will go with the AMS.

chashint

10-29-08, 07:53 PM

I don't consider a 2ghz cpu to be fast enough for decoding some 1080i/p content. For 720p source material, you may be OK. A 2.4ghz cpu or faster would be preferable to me, but I have a 1080p HDTV and mostly decode Blu-ray discs ripperd to the HDD.

Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.

leiff

10-29-08, 09:26 PM

uncola

10-30-08, 05:08 AM

anyone know of any micro-atx cases that are small? all the cases I see are like 15" wide by 14" deep. anything smaller?

renethx

10-30-08, 05:22 AM

Which PSU to buy? I can get corsair HX520w for $90 or Enermax MODU82 625w power supply for $125. I don't know if I'll need the extra wattage but I'd like to know if one is better or more quiet? Is it true larger capacity PSU's will drain more electricity than a smaller PSU both under same load? Most of the time I won't be gaming and only expect to be pulling a couple hundred watts. I heard that PSU's are most effiiciant when at least at half load.
Read HX520W (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article692-page4.html) and Modu82+ (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article806-page5.html). The total system power at 3D peak would be roughly:

- Radeon HD 4870: 140W+160W=300W
- Radeon HD 4870 X2: 140W+280W=420W

HX520W, DC output/AC input/SPL:

- 298W/350W=85.1%/22dBA
- 407W/486W=83.7%/29dBA

Modu82+ 625, DC output/AC input/SPL:

- 301W/352W=85.4%/22dBA
- 401W/478W=83.8%/26dBA

So there is little difference of efficiency. But Modu82+ is quieter at 400W (that's one reason why Modu82+ is considered the best).

TommyboyCAN

10-30-08, 11:30 AM

Hi,

I used this thread extensively 2 years ago when I first build by HTPC. Anyways I'm moving the PC from a living room environment to a dedicated theatre room with a nice new projector. One of the changes I'm making is this new room is wired for 7.1 with an Onkyo 606.

For my current setup I just use SPDIF to drive an older yamamha receiver with 5.1. Since I'm also considering adding a blue ray drive to this PC I'm wondering what are my options as far as getting 7.1 to the receiver.

Current processor graphic card:
Q6600/8800GTS512/4GB ram/Vista x64
These are the ones I'm looking at:
1) Get a 4870 and do HDMI to 606
2) Get a analog 7.1 card
3) get an HDMI 7.1 card

Any recommendations or thoughts?

redtyler1

10-30-08, 11:37 AM

I have an Onkyo 606 and a 4670 with BD's playing off my server. the setup is great, and provides excellt pq for both BD and SD DVD. I would only get something higher than the 4670 if you will be gaming. Even if you do light gaming, the 4670 is totally fine. I would just do that.

So the audio is an easier question to answer as of right now. The 4670 will do 7.1 over HDMI to the receiver. It will be downsampled by the software (TMT or PDVD), but there is question as to whether or not listeners can hear the difference. Thus, its a subjective call. For me, its great the way it is. Plus, the availability of 7.1 HDMI cards in the US that have protected audio path is non-existent to my knowledge.

Really, the 4670 is a simple fix to turn almost any computer into an HTPC capable of playing BD and providing 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. And its like $70.

On the Onkyo, make sure you use the HDMI 1 input for the HTPC, there are issues with the others properly recognizing it.

Mikie

10-30-08, 12:14 PM

leiff

10-30-08, 12:15 PM

Tom_N

10-30-08, 12:15 PM

Rene

Thanks for your help. I was able to fix my problem by changing digital inputs on my receiver. Despite setting it to digital this one input keeps reverting back to analog. I had previously tried this but it must have been before I had installed all the proper drivers.

Tom

renethx

10-30-08, 12:35 PM

I've settled on the Radeon 4670 for my HTPC. Comments I've read seem to prefer the HIS card (H467QS512P) because it is cool & quiet. Unfortunately I my receiver requires component connections. Is there an adapter for the HIS card or should I go with the Saphire card? --Thanks
What you need is a 7-PIN HDTV Output Cable (http://shop.ati.com/product.asp?sku=2550138) (it works). You may find it or a similar 7-pin mini-DIN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MiniDIN#7-pin_2) to component video adapter cable at a lower price elsewhere (http://www.google.com/products?q=7-PIN+HDTV+Output+Cable&scoring=p).

Mikie

10-30-08, 12:40 PM

Thanks for the quick response renethx. Now I'm good to go :)

nownot

10-30-08, 12:44 PM

im building a system to play back 1080p blu-ray and mkv. heres what im looking at, let me know if its not strong enough.

ASUS M3N78 PRO

AMD Phenom 8450 Toliman 2.1GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket
AM2+ 95W Triple-Core Processor - Retail

2gb 800mhz ram

Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX

for a lcd i have westinghouse LVM-37w3 and for receiver i have harmon kardon cp55. so does these components get the job done?

let me make a edit: im looking for cheapest solution, for 1080p playback, that is upgradable, the above option may not be that. so maybe a cheap atx board and a 4550 or something like that? any suggestions? once again CHEAPEST.

thanks for any help

renethx

10-30-08, 01:21 PM

Thanks for the PSU advise. One more question. I'm considering "aside from cpu fan" going fanless in my sff PC; making my PSU function as exhaust fan. To make sure my components don't suffer I should monitor my MB and cpu temp from bios right? On the other side of PC is my hardrive enclosure holding 2 7400 drives. I don't know how to check there temp. Do I need to worry about them?
As for the noisy case fan, you should attach it to the CHA-FAN1 connector of the mb and control fan speed using Chassis Q-Fan Control (in BIOS). Both CPU fan and chassis fan speed can be controlled by SpeedFan (http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php) in Windows too (please read my post (http://forums.anandtech.com/textthread.aspx?catid=29&threadid=1803985&filtmsgid=22383275) to configure it).

All of CPU, system and HDDs (via S.M.A.R.T) temperatures can be monitored from SpeedFan. ASUS also provides a similar utility (I don't remember its name).

renethx

10-30-08, 01:51 PM

nownot

10-30-08, 01:55 PM

Surely your system will work fine for BD and mkv. "Upgradable" to what? A cheaper mb with basically the same performance is

- GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H, $85.

The onboard graphics (either GeForce 8300 or AMD 780G) is good enough for BD/mkv. Connect S/PDIF port of the rear panel to your receiver.

upgradable for the future, for all audio etc. so im not building a new system next year b/c left something out.

renethx

10-30-08, 02:17 PM

upgradable for the future, for all audio etc. so im not building a new system next year b/c left something out.
If you consider upgrading your receiver, then GeForce 8300 is perhaps a better choice because it supports 7.1 LPCM over HDMI so you don't have to upgrade graphics card (780G supports only stereo LPCM). If you add a discrete graphics card that supports HD audio bitstream (next year?), then either mb is fine (in this case I prefer GA-MA78G-DS3H because of more PCIe x1 slots).

Zork123

10-30-08, 03:20 PM

Now that my Asus P5N7A-VM is on the way :), I'd like some advice on building a small, quiet HTPC around it. It's primary use will be to play Blu-Ray and DVD movies from .iso images ripped with AnyDVD-HD, stored on a NAS, plus the ability to watch movies and TV episodes on demand from Netflix, Blockbuster, Amazon, Apple, CBS, NBC, Fox, etc. and the occasional PC game (WoW), but not expecting it to run high end PC games.

It will be connected via HDMI 1.3 to an upper mid-range entertainment system (Denon 3808ci, MartinLogan 5.1, Pioneer PDP-6010 plasma) and fed via gigE from a QNAP TS-509 Pro.

All I think I'll need in addition to the mobo is a CPU (I've got a spare Core2 Duo 3.0GHz handy), 2GB memory, and a quiet HDD (maybe a 2.5" laptop drive). I can install the OS from USB, so it doesn't even need a DVD/Blu-Ray drive, although it might be nice to have one for convenience.

Here's what I've come up with so far:
Case: Antec Minuet 350
Remote: Logitech diNovo Mini
Mobo: Asus P5N7A-VM
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz 65W
RAM: 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 Dual Channel Kit
HDD: 100GB 2.5" SATA laptop drive or 120GB 3.5" SATA (these are spares I have available), or maybe an SSD if I want to go totally silent, but probably overkill
OS: Still undecided b/w XP and Vista - I've got spare XP copies, but no spare Vista
TV Capture: haven't found anything that let's me record in HD from Comcast. I've got their HD DVR, but don't know if it's possible to get the recordings off of their box and into my system w/o sacrificing quality.

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

visible ivan

10-30-08, 05:16 PM

After all these years my first post..

I have a desktop PC that I would like to pull double duty as a home theater / light gaming machine. The motherboard is the problem though as the Foxconn DG33M03 only has a PCI Express x16 1.0 spec slot. I want to get a card for this machine but I want to make sure that I'm not buying more card then the 1.0 spec bus can handle. So my question is...

How do I calculate how much bus bandwidth will a given video card utilize? Also, would there be a benefit to get a say 512 meg card that has additional memory over an identical card with 256 in an effort to alleviate bus traffic?

renethx

10-30-08, 05:44 PM

TV Capture: haven't found anything that let's me record in HD from Comcast. I've got their HD DVR, but don't know if it's possible to get the recordings off of their box and into my system w/o sacrificing quality.
Please read the TV tuner section of the first page (use IEEE 1394 for non-5C protected or use Hauppage HD-PVR?).

leiff

10-30-08, 06:22 PM

Don digitty! thanks renethx. My chasis fan was hooked to Power. That's why RPM's were stuck at 2000. Plugged it into chasis and am running at 1400 rpm's with bios silent mode enabled. What do I do to add another quiet fan now that chasis and cpu headers are used? Can I get a splitter for chasis header, or is there a really quiet 80mm fan I can hook up to power? Oh, and before I order my zalman 8700 from the egg, is there any cpu gel or anything I need to buy? I've never replaced a cpu cooler before. I will be removing a coolermaster that I am told is using a compatible mount plate so I won't have to remove my motherboard. Thanks again.

Hogweed75

10-30-08, 07:01 PM

I'm waiting for the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H board to come through. Hopefully they'll show up on 11/6 like they're supposed to. Hopefully Newegg will have them that same day! I received my Thermaltake Bach Series VB8000BNS Case today. I have an LG|GGW-H20LK Blu-ray burner/HD-DVD drive, Coolmax CUG-700B 700 watt PS ready and the Adesso wirless RF keyboard. Also have a 250GB Western Digital for the main drive. Picking up the pieces as they go on sale.

Still need a few things. This is what I'm looking at to go with the build:
GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) F2-6400CL5D-4GBPQ Memory
(2) 1TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000340AS
Coolers. Unsure?
Display/Remote
I have Vista Ultimate 32 and 64 bit. Which should I use?

I'm planning on using the on-board video and audio for now. Eventually upgrading to an audio card that can bitstream the lossless codecs, TrueHD, DTS MA. The Asus seems to be a flop so we'll see if the Auzentech Home Theater 7.1 turns out OK.

Any hints or helps would be appreciated. This is my first real build although I've tinkered with my old Dell with a 2.8GHz dual core processor. Managed to get it working fairly well with the Asus HD 4550 video card and a Striker 7.1 audio card. Tos-link out to my SS processor for 5.1 DD and DTS. Sounds pretty good! Ripping Blu-rays with AnyDVD HD and playback with PowerDVD8 Ultra and 7.3 for HD-DVD's. If I push it to hard though I get the blue screen memory dump. Just have to use it with kid gloves but that's why I've got the new build going. The Dell was a good test though.

I'll be using the Emotiva UMC-1 as my main processor/pre when they come out in December. I'm on the back order list. It has 5 HDMI inputs so I can connect the HTPC, Cabel box, Xbox, Samsung BD-UP5000 player up. HTPC is more of my toy. My wife will probably just use the Samsung.

renethx

10-30-08, 07:15 PM

visible ivan

10-30-08, 07:59 PM

You can buy a PCIe 2.0 graphics card because if the mb is PCIe 1.x, then the graphics card also works at PCIe 1.x.

In general it is a good idea to choose 512MB over 256MB (see link)

Thanks for the link, I missed that article. It answered one of my big questions about where the slot bandwidth is intensively utilized. (textures) Does a pretty good job of showing what the performance impact of running in a 1.0 slot vs a 2.0 slot would be when they cut the lanes in half.

renethx

10-30-08, 08:21 PM

What do I do to add another quiet fan now that chasis and cpu headers are used? Can I get a splitter for chasis header, or is there a really quiet 80mm fan I can hook up to power? Oh, and before I order my zalman 8700 from the egg, is there any cpu gel or anything I need to buy? I've never replaced a cpu cooler before. I will be removing a coolermaster that I am told is using a compatible mount plate so I won't have to remove my motherboard. Thanks again.
Somebody suggested Arctic-Cooling's PWM fans which allow you to "daisy-chain" multiple PWM fans controlled by a single motherboard CPU-PWM fan port, as well as Y-splitter. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14543008#post14543008).

I usually use Arctic Silver Céramique or Arctic Silver 5. To remove old compound, use ArctiClean (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835100010) or pure isopropyl alcohol (with lint-free cloth (http://www.datalinksales.com/cgi-bin/shop/datstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=Cleaning%20Supplies%3BComputer%20%26%20Electronic&start=20)).

renethx

10-30-08, 08:45 PM

Hogweed75

10-30-08, 09:27 PM

- Cooler: check page 1 of this thread. E7200 runs cool so that you may use the stock cooler at first.
- 32-bit vs 64-bit. Basically either one is OK. 64-bit supports 4GB or more memory for applications. Playing mkv x264 files: 64-bit Haali splitter is not ready yet, but it will be available soon (hopefully). You may use a 32-bit player (or front end), of course.

Thanks for the info renethx. Sooo what is 64-bit Haali splitter?

I understand that Vista 64 bit also runs more stable but that there aren't drivers for everything yet. I'll just be using the basics on the HTPC. PowerDVD8 Ultra and 7.3, AnyDVD HD a FLAC player, and whatever else I need that I don't know for Blu-ray, HD-DVD, SD, ISO, etc. right now.

What other programs do I need that would make life with an HTPC easier?

leiff

10-30-08, 10:09 PM

vdiesel

10-31-08, 03:35 AM

Post-processing is a general term of image processing methods done after the decoding process (hence 'post') used in video playback, including:

- telecine/inverse telecine (or pulldown/pullup, related to film)
- deinterlacing (DVD, SD & HD TV)
- sharpening
- denoise
- upscaling (from SD to HD)

They can be done by hardware (GPU, display, video processor) or software (software player, codecs etc.). If your concern is BD (1080p) playback, you can mostly neglect post-processing in HTPC because what you need is decoding the contents faithfully to the original and sending them to the display in 1:1 pixel mapping. HD (1080i) post-processing is also relatively easy (sort of) if you choose a right GPU. SD post-processing is a bit complicated/difficult (partly because 'good' post-processing is defined by the subjective PQ to the viewer’s eyes) and people have spent lots of efforts in this area (look at the sticky thread "FFdshow Walkthrough").

Does SD post processing including upscaling standard DVD to HD? You said Radeon 4670 is better at SD post processing than 4350/4550, so does that mean it is better at upscaling standard DVD to HD?

renethx

10-31-08, 06:27 AM

What other programs do I need that would make life with an HTPC easier?
Check your hardware components and see if 64-bit driver is available.

If you are going to use Windows Media Center as a front end, you may want a couple of plug-ins, for example, My Movies.

renethx

10-31-08, 06:39 AM

So I have to buy Arctic Silver 5 and and arcticlean to go along with my zalman fan? That's an extra $20 from new egg with shipping I didn't expect to have to pay. Will these products come with good directions for me to correctly install my new cpu fan?
You don't have to buy Arctic Silver 5. Zalman cooler includes a small tube of thermal paste. But you still need pure isopropyl alcohol to remove old paste from the surface of CPU completely (removing it by Goo Gone and kitchen towel paper is not recommended because residual remains). Yes, instructions are included. Or download them from the manufacturer's website.

renethx

10-31-08, 06:48 AM

Does SD post processing including upscaling standard DVD to HD? You said Radeon 4670 is better at SD post processing than 4350/4550, so does that mean it is better at upscaling standard DVD to HD?
In my test, upscaling film DVD is identical between 4350/4550/4670. 4550/4670 may be better in upscaling 'video' DVD (like TV shows). 4670 is the best in deinterlacing SD 'video' and 3:2 pulldown detection. But there is no difference when playing back well-encoded film DVDs.

jeffreydeng

10-31-08, 10:59 AM

renethx,

I am having this annoying problem. I am using ASUS 4670 with HDMI connector. I use it to connect to Onkyo 705 which outputs signal to Mitsubishi 4900 projector. It works fine for playing all HD movies. As a HTPC machine I would like to be able to use it the time when I want to. So I have been putting it to standby mode for more than a year with Nvidia 8500GT. Everything worked perfect. The startup is about 2 seconds just like AV machines.

However since I started using ASUS 4670, everything changed. There is no video signal when I wake the machine up. I know the machine is working because I can login to it from another PC using Windows ewmote desktop. I opened several ticket to AMD but haven't got defenitive answer. They don't even recognize there is a problem like that.

The reason I ask you is because I need to understand whether this is my configuration's issue or it is a broader driver issue. I have disabled the ATI service. So far, in this forum I only noticed another member who is usign 4870 and reported the same symptom.

Any suggestio nyou may have in addition to waing for 8.11 driver?

Thanks!

renethx

10-31-08, 11:59 AM

Any suggestio nyou may have in addition to waing for 8.11 driver?
I haven't seen this problem with 4670 and Onkyo 606. Try this: Press "SETUP" and then press "RETURN" in your receiver.

jmasterman

10-31-08, 01:18 PM

SWL1881

10-31-08, 02:06 PM

What you need is a 7-PIN HDTV Output Cable (it works). You may find it or a similar to component video adapter cable at a lower price.

Hi,

After reading this forum for a VERY long time, I am (finally) putting together an HTPC. I'm using renethx's "Guide to Building an HTPC" ATX Intel High-End version. So far one screw up on my part. I have a Pioneer Elite 720 TV, which only has component connections. However, I bought the HD 4850 video card. I am confused on whether I can get the 7-pin HDTV output cable from ATI, and have it work with THIS video card. It seems that this cable doesn't work with this card, only other ones? If this card won't work, is there a recommended video card with component outputs? Thanks, renethx, for all of the work you do here!

renethx

10-31-08, 02:44 PM

My 4850 will not resume correctly if I have turned off my AV system (Sony CTS100).
Do you see POST screen?

renethx

10-31-08, 02:50 PM

I have a Pioneer Elite 720 TV, which only has component connections. However, I bought the HD 4850 video card. I am confused on whether I can get the 7-pin HDTV output cable from ATI, and have it work with THIS video card. It seems that this cable doesn't work with this card, only other ones? If this card won't work, is there a recommended video card with component outputs? Thanks, renethx, for all of the work you do here!
Which HD 4850 model do you have? Do you use the bundled component cable? If it does not work, then perhaps the cable from ATI won't work. Well, the component out from any HD 4850 card with any 7-pin HDTV cable should work. Check the settings in both CCC and your TV again.

SWL1881

10-31-08, 02:59 PM

Which HD 4850 model do you have? Do you use the bundled component cable? If it does not work, then perhaps the cable from ATI won't work. Well, the component out from any HD 4850 card with any 7-pin HDTV cable should work. Check the settings in both CCC and your TV again.

I got the HIS H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 card. It only comes with a composite dongle for the 7-pin connector. But you think the ATI 7-PIN HDTV Output Cable (Part Number: 6110017600 from a link you posted earlier - I can't put links in my posts yet) will work? They indicate that it is only for X800 and X700 series video cards.

Thanks!

jeffreydeng

10-31-08, 03:00 PM

My 4850 will not resume correctly if I have turned off my AV system (Sony CTS100). I use an iMon panel with my remote to power it completely off. (reboot) This is not the ideal situation but I am the only one using the system.

If I use one of my TVs HDMI inputs, I dont have this issue.

Yes, this matches the symptom I am having. However in my case, the HTPC is in family room and my wife as well as kids are using it. It is very annoying. I may try to connect HTPC to the projector directly. If that works, then it may be receiver's fault which is my case is Onlyo 705/606.

I still wonder whether this is due to the specific board, configuration etc. because no so many prople are reporting it and I am sure many people are using the Vista standby feature since it is really convenient.

renethx

10-31-08, 03:15 PM

I got the HIS H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 card. It only comes with a composite dongle for the 7-pin connector. But you think the ATI 7-PIN HDTV Output Cable (Part Number: 6110017600 from a link you posted earlier - I can't put links in my posts yet) will work? They indicate that it is only for X800 and X700 series video cards.
Yes, it should work.

SWL1881

10-31-08, 03:17 PM

Yes, it should work.
Great, I'll give it a shot! Thanks again for all of your help!

ndabunka

10-31-08, 03:53 PM

Yes, this matches the symptom I am having. However in my case, the HTPC is in family room and my wife as well as kids are using it. It is very annoying. I may try to connect HTPC to the projector directly. If that works, then it may be receiver's fault which is my case is Onlyo 705/606.

I still wonder whether this is due to the specific board, configuration etc. because no so many prople are reporting it and I am sure many people are using the Vista standby feature since it is really convenient.

This sounds very much like an EDID issue with your Onkyo. There is a product called a "data director" that can be used to resolve your issues. Either that or upgrade the firmware on your reciever

jeffreydeng

10-31-08, 04:03 PM

This sounds very much like an EDID issue with your Onkyo. There is a product called a "data director" that can be used to resolve your issues. Either that or upgrade the firmware on your reciever

Most people who have EDID issue is when you change source on the receiver. I can change source on the receiver without problem. If this is EDID issue, I may be out of luck because I am using HDMI port of the AUS 4670 and I can't use SVI doctor or DVI detective. BY the way, what is this 'data director'? Is that a component plug-in to the receiver HDMI port or the DVI/HDMI port of the video card to fool the video card?

I just checked my receiver and the firmware are all latest.

ndabunka

10-31-08, 04:33 PM

Most people who have EDID issue is when you change source on the receiver. I can change source on the receiver without problem. If this is EDID issue, I may be out of luck because I am using HDMI port of the AUS 4670 and I can't use SVI doctor or DVI detective. BY the way, what is this 'data director'? Is that a component plug-in to the receiver HDMI port or the DVI/HDMI port of the video card to fool the video card?

I just checked my receiver and the firmware are all latest.

Sorry about using the wrong term (data director was an old...very old (15+ years) software solution for PCs). I was thinking of the DVI detective (to hold the EDID information static on your behalf)

jeffreydeng

10-31-08, 04:42 PM

I haven't seen this problem with 4670 and Onkyo 606. Try this: Press "SETUP" and then press "RETURN" in your receiver.

I tried and it doesn't change anything.

jeffreydeng

10-31-08, 04:44 PM

Sorry about using the wrong term (data director was an old...very old (15+ years) software solution for PCs). I was thinking of the DVI detective (to hold the EDID information static on your behalf)

Are you aware of such device which can be used for HDMI port? ASUS 4670 has one built-in HDMI port and people say that only that port will output 7.1 LPCM audio.

renethx

10-31-08, 05:30 PM

ASUS 4670 has one built-in HDMI port and people say that only that port will output 7.1 LPCM audio.
Did somebody actually test and confirm that the DVI port does not carry audio?

jeffreydeng

10-31-08, 05:38 PM

Did somebody actually test and confirm that the DVI port does not carry audio?

Many posts say that only one DVI port carry audio from 48xx and 46xx cards. SInce this ASUS HDMI port carry audio I assume that the DVI port doesn;t carry audio. But I will try the DVI port to see whether it carries audio or not. If it does, DVI doctor could be a solution if this is EDID issue.

renethx

10-31-08, 05:42 PM

Many posts say that only one DVI port carry audio from 48xx and 46xx cards. SInce this ASUS HDMI port carry audio I assume that the DVI port doesn;t carry audio. But I will try the DVI port to see whether it carries audio or not. If it does, DVI doctor could be a solution if this is EDID issue.
Actually every HD 4xxx/3xxx cards with two DVI ports I tested carries audio through either port.

jeffreydeng

10-31-08, 06:29 PM

Actually every HD 4xxx/3xxx cards with two DVI ports I tested carries audio through either port.

I just realize that I don't have ATI DVI/HDMI dongle for the ASUS 4670 board. So I can't test the audio for DVI port.

jcato

10-31-08, 07:19 PM

Hi all,

Time for a new HTPC. The current one is several years old and needs too many updates, so it will probably be converted to an office PC. I want to be able to watch Blu-Ray (both on disk and from server), record with HD PVR using Sage and play games. I'd like it to be powerful, quiet and cost efficient. So, starting with the suggestions in this thread, I've come up with the following:

CPU: Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz Socket 775
CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 chipset ATX
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2x2GB Kit
Graphics Card: Asus EAH4850 TOP/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850
HDD: WD WD1500HLFS 150GB VelociRaptor
PSU: SeaSonic S12 SS-550HT 550W
Case: nMediaPC 2000B ATX HTPC Case
OS: Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit
Blu-Ray: Lite-On DH-4O1S-08 4x BR/DVD/CD ROM

Some reasons for some of the choices:
Graphics Card: All 4850s are created pretty much eqaully, right? But, this one is among the cheapest at Newegg and it's overclocked.

HDD: This is a splurge. I don't want a large drive for the OS. But I do want it quiet and fast. I don't think SSD is ready yet. Am I wrong? Should I look at SSD?

PSU: EnerMax Modu82 PSs are great, but expensive. The SeaSonic plus the nMediaPC case is a combo special at Newegg and over $100 cheaper.

OS: Not sure one this one either. I haven't used Vista yet and I like XP. But, for good or bad, I guess Vista is the future. Should I consider 64bit?

Blu-Ray: Seems like a good one and cheaper than the LG GGC-H20L. Will I wish I had the speedier LG?

Thanks for your thoughts!

uncola

11-01-08, 06:01 AM

might want to go with a different video card, usually the overclocked cards are loud

renethx

11-01-08, 07:51 AM

Graphics Card: All 4850s are created pretty much eqaully, right? But, this one is among the cheapest at Newegg and it's overclocked.

HDD: This is a splurge. I don't want a large drive for the OS. But I do want it quiet and fast. I don't think SSD is ready yet. Am I wrong? Should I look at SSD?

PSU: EnerMax Modu82 PSs are great, but expensive. The SeaSonic plus the nMediaPC case is a combo special at Newegg and over $100 cheaper.

OS: Not sure one this one either. I haven't used Vista yet and I like XP. But, for good or bad, I guess Vista is the future. Should I consider 64bit?

Blu-Ray: Seems like a good one and cheaper than the LG GGC-H20L. Will I wish I had the speedier LG?
- VelociRaptor is a good choice if performance is your top priority.
- You can use all 4GB memory with 64-bit OS.
- Note that DH-4O1S can't write DVD/CD.

jeffreydeng

11-01-08, 01:08 PM

Actually every HD 4xxx/3xxx cards with two DVI ports I tested carries audio through either port.

Do I have to use ATI HDMI/DVI dongle in order to get audio out of DVI port? How about general DVI/HDMI converter?

renethx

11-01-08, 01:34 PM

Do I have to use ATI HDMI/DVI dongle in order to get audio out of DVI port? How about general DVI/HDMI converter?
At least you have to use the ATI DVI-HDMI dongle to get audio (but should ASUS have decided against passing audio through the DVI port, you won't get audio anyway).

jcato

11-01-08, 03:07 PM

Graphics Card: Asus EAH4850 TOP/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 4850

might want to go with a different video card, usually the overclocked cards are loud

Maybe, but this card has a nicer cooler than the stock cards. Most reviews call it quiet, but hot. Hopefully case fans can help. If not, I can try an aftermarket cooler to lessen the heat and/or noise.

- VelociRaptor is a good choice if performance is your top priority.
- You can use all 4GB memory with 64-bit OS.
- Note that DH-4O1S can't write DVD/CD.

I think I'm going to reconsider the HDD. I think I'll go with your choice, WD6400AAKS, for the OS and the Samsung 1TB for SageTV recordings. The WD is quiet and fast and the combination provides all my storage needs (movies and music are on an unRaid server) for about the same price as the VelociRaptor.

For the OS, Vista Business is looking like the best choice, plus it's $50 cheaper. I don't want or need MCE, Windows DVD Maker or Movie Maker HD. Is it missing anything else that would matter? I'm also not seeing much reason to tackle the additional headaches of 64-bit. Besides addressing more memory, are there other advantages for an HTPC system?

I'm ok without DVD/CD writing ability. I can do that on my office PC.

Any other thoughts?
Thanks!

Smitty2k1

11-01-08, 05:20 PM

Maybe, but this card has a nicer cooler than the stock cards. Most reviews call it quiet, but hot. Hopefully case fans can help. If not, I can try an aftermarket cooler to lessen the heat and/or noise.

I think I'm going to reconsider the HDD. I think I'll go with your choice, WD6400AAKS, for the OS and the Samsung 1TB for SageTV recordings. The WD is quiet and fast and the combination provides all my storage needs (movies and music are on an unRaid server) for about the same price as the VelociRaptor.

For the OS, Vista Business is looking like the best choice, plus it's $50 cheaper. I don't want or need MCE, Windows DVD Maker or Movie Maker HD. Is it missing anything else that would matter? I'm also not seeing much reason to tackle the additional headaches of 64-bit. Besides addressing more memory, are there other advantages for an HTPC system?

I'm ok without DVD/CD writing ability. I can do that on my office PC.

Any other thoughts?
Thanks!

Yeah, why get a 640GB HDD for the OS and then a 1TB drive for your media? How about getting a 120GB HDD for the OS and a 1.5TB for your media instead???

Joseph Clark

11-01-08, 09:10 PM

Yeah, why get a 640GB HDD for the OS and then a 1TB drive for your media? How about getting a 120GB HDD for the OS and a 1.5TB for your media instead???

Yes, I just picked up these 1.5TB drives from Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148337). They're less than 750GB drives were about a year ago ($180).

jmasterman

11-01-08, 10:42 PM

Do you see POST screen?

yes, and I can enter the bios as well. Other than this issue, I am getting good results with the 4850.

proufo

11-01-08, 10:42 PM

Hi proufo, all the current midrange to high-end graphics cards pass HQV Benchmark with the perfect score of 130 out of 130. (How is your Matrox G550?) I am interested in reading anything backing up your claim.It is likely that my info and my experience are outdated. Are you telling me that there are video cards with smart, top upconversion capabilities, equal to a Reon chip or similar?

My experience comes from a NX8500GT via HDMI. Compared to a Samsung 1200 with Reon HQV processing.

Would like to know more. Thanks in advance.

The 550 went to the obsolete box as it doesn't support overlay (should I say, "I believe"?). Remind me, how do you know about it?

Best regards.

jcato

11-02-08, 11:20 AM

Yeah, why get a 640GB HDD for the OS and then a 1TB drive for your media? How about getting a 120GB HDD for the OS and a 1.5TB for your media instead???

The main reason to go with that particular 640GB HDD is that it is both quiet and fast, according to silentpcreview.com. Same for the 1TB Samsung. Of course, with that big of a "c:" drive, I'd use it for more than just the OS, e.g., for games and some media like trailers and movie posters.

Also, 1TB recording drive is plenty big enough since I can archive shows to the unRaid server if it gets too full.

The 1.5TB drive is $180. I can't find a 120GB at Newegg, but an 80GB is about $40. That's 1580GB* for $220 vs 1640GB* for $185. Plus, is the 80GB going to be as quiet and fast as the 640GB?

*Or should it be 1616GB vs 1664GB? Is a 1TB drive = 1000GB or 1024GB? Either way my point is the same.

Smitty2k1

11-02-08, 01:16 PM

The main reason to go with that particular 640GB HDD is that it is both quiet and fast, according to silentpcreview.com. Same for the 1TB Samsung. Of course, with that big of a "c:" drive, I'd use it for more than just the OS, e.g., for games and some media like trailers and movie posters.

Also, 1TB recording drive is plenty big enough since I can archive shows to the unRaid server if it gets too full.

The 1.5TB drive is $180. I can't find a 120GB at Newegg, but an 80GB is about $40. That's 1580GB* for $220 vs 1640GB* for $185. Plus, is the 80GB going to be as quiet and fast as the 640GB?

*Or should it be 1616GB vs 1664GB? Is a 1TB drive = 1000GB or 1024GB? Either way my point is the same.

I find myself reformatting the C: drive a lot, a 640GB C: drive with a lot of data on it that is not just os/apps/games would result in a lot of data loss. But that's just me

leiff

11-02-08, 02:18 PM

renethx

11-02-08, 02:54 PM

Me thinks I bought the wrong PSU. I bought the ENERMAX MODU82 to go in my small SUGO SG02B-f case. I wanted to use a fanless cpu heatsink (NT06-E) that would fit snugly below my PSU. But to do this correctly PSU intake fan would need to be on bottem of PSU, not top which I'm afraid the enermax is. I'm afraid since my PSU sits on the top of my case that intake fan on top of PSU is bad for me. Can it be installed upsidedown?
You chose a PSU with correct fan direction: the intake fan is on the bottom (and you can install the PSU only in this direction). As a matter of fact, every PSU has a fan on the same side. Compare, for examle, Enermax Modu82+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=17-194-027-12.jpg&Image=17-194-027-12.jpg%2c17-194-027-04.jpg%2c17-194-027-05.jpg%2c17-194-027-06.jpg%2c17-194-027-07.jpg%2c17-194-027-08.jpg%2c17-194-027-09.jpg%2c17-194-027-10.jpg%2c17-194-027-02.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&WaterMark=1&Item=N82E16817194027&Depa=0&Description=ENERMAX%20MODU82%2b%20EMD625AWT%20625W%20Power%2 0Supply) and SilverStone SST-ST60F 600W (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?Image=17-163-109-23.jpg%2c17-163-109-14.jpg%2c17-163-109-15.jpg%2c17-163-109-16.jpg%2c17-163-109-17.jpg%2c17-163-109-18.jpg%2c17-163-109-19.jpg%2c17-163-109-20.jpg%2c17-163-109-21.jpg%2c17-163-109-12.jpg&CurImage=17-163-109-23.jpg&WaterMark=1&Item=N82E16817163109&Description=SILVERSTONE%20SST-ST60F%20600W%20ATX12V%20%2f%20EPS12V%20SLI%20Certified%20Cro ssFire%20Ready%2080%20PLUS%20BRONZE%20Certified%20Modular%20 Active%20PFC%20Power%20Supply%20-%20Retail).

leiff

11-02-08, 03:57 PM

That's a relief! So I guess when installed the modu82 logo is upside down and the enermax logo below powercord jack is rightside up. That threw me for a loop. I'm going to try to install the NT06-E heatsink. I've already heard from other AVS'ers with this setup so I know it will fit. I'm just hoping I can use my existing cpu mount plate without having to remove MB.

vdiesel

11-02-08, 04:35 PM

Is there a fanless Radeon 4670?

leiff

11-02-08, 08:16 PM

wondering if someone can recommend 2 quiet 80mm case fans that can mount to my case's fan mounts and push air into my case. I'll have a cpu heatsink and very quit PSU for exhaust. Someone recommended Enermax Magma 80mm fan. At full speed I worry it may be loud. Thinking of going for Silverstone SUSCOOL81 fans on ebay for $10. I don't think I need to push much air, just keep quiet. My only available headers are PWR 3 pin, and cpu 4pin.

michaelharvey

11-03-08, 03:06 AM

I'm currently about to build a new HTPC. Components as follows:

CPU Cooler - Scythe Ninja Mini
Motherboard - Any GeForce 9300 or 9400 Micro ATX with 3 x PCIE - ASUS P5N7A-EM?
Ram - 4GB Corsair
Case - Antec Fusion Remote Black
Fan - Nexus 120mm
PSU - Enermax Modu 82+ 625W
TV Tuner - Hauppage 2200 and Nova-T
HDD - Samsung F1 750Gb
Optical Drive - Carry over DVD - upgrade to Blu-ray later
OS - Vista 64GB

I'm a little unsure about the CPU. I have both the E5200 or E8400 in mind.

Is the E5200 capable of fully decoding 1080p via software? If not, what is the minimum CPU to do this?

Thanks for your advice. If you pick up anything else, please let me know.

renethx

11-03-08, 03:16 PM

It is likely that my info and my experience are outdated. Are you telling me that there are video cards with smart, top upconversion capabilities, equal to a Reon chip or similar?

My experience comes from a NX8500GT via HDMI. Compared to a Samsung 1200 with Reon HQV processing.

Would like to know more.
Me too. At least it is plain wrong to say that a top upconverting DVD player outperforms HTPCs in general in PQ by comparing it with a HTPC equipped with GeForce 8500 GT. Read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14993273#post14993273). In my test GeForce 8500 GT is better than Radeon HD 4550, but far inferior to a high-end card such as HD 4850.

renethx

11-03-08, 03:20 PM

Is there a fanless Radeon 4670?
No. A couple of people use the ASUS card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121274) without fan successfully.

renethx

11-03-08, 03:21 PM

renethx

11-03-08, 03:24 PM

Is the E5200 capable of fully decoding 1080p via software? If not, what is the minimum CPU to do this?
The answer depends on the decoder you use. Which decoder/player do use? What kind of files do you play?

michaelharvey

11-03-08, 08:40 PM

The answer depends on the decoder you use. Which decoder/player do use? What kind of files do you play?

I will use Vista MCE for all playback. I currently use CCCP codec pack for my decoding.

I do play some Xvid 720p downloaded content; but would want enough grunt to handle the more commonly download content for future use.

renethx

11-03-08, 09:33 PM

I will use Vista MCE for all playback. I currently use CCCP codec pack for my decoding.

I do play some Xvid 720p downloaded content; but would want enough grunt to handle the more commonly download content for future use.
Where do you download HD contents? The required CPU power heavily depends on the bitrate of the content and if HA works or not. So there is no clear answer. E5200 is enough for most BD movies (up to 40Mbps) without HA using CoreAVC (CPU usage 50-90%; ffdshow requires more power). But if you use MCP-HC (actually its decoder; I don't know if it works within MCE), HA works and the required CPU power is very low. If you are not sure, E8400 is recommended; it has enough power to decode every kind of contents.

michaelharvey

11-03-08, 09:47 PM

Where do you download HD contents? The required CPU power heavily depends on the bitrate of the content and if HA works or not. So there is no clear answer. E5200 is enough for most BD movies (up to 40Mbps) without HA using CoreAVC (CPU usage 50-90%; ffdshow requires more power). But if you use MCP-HC (actually its decoder; I don't know if it works within MCE), HA works and the required CPU power is very low. If you are not sure, E8400 is recommended; it has enough power to decode every kind of contents.

I download Top Gear from finalgear website. That is the only thing I download.

E5200 is half the price of E8400 in Australia. I think I can live with the risk at that price.

Scalemail Ted

11-04-08, 04:39 AM

I have many remedial questions....

I'm ready to build an HTPC. My intent, is to eliminate my dependency on physical media formats. I don't want to dedicate the space for my dvd collection any longer. It clutters up my entertainment console, its laborious to shift through all the individual cases in search of a title, not to mention the various titles I've already misplaced, lost, or lent out.

I want to take all my DVDs and upload them onto a computer. From there, I can ideally navigate my content with ease and throw all of my old discs into storage, i.e the attic. In essence, I want to do with my TV what I have already done with my iPod.

My concerns are:

1. Storage capacity. I want to be able to store all my movie/TV content and allow it to grow to include new content. With the advent of 1.5TB drives the options seem huge.

Question: Can i just build a HTPC with as many HDDs as the motherboard has SATA ports? Or will the OS software prohibit me to a certain set limit?

2. When I rip my DVDs to the computer how much space should i anticipate they consume? (~800MB-1GB?) What format are they in typically ripped to?

3. Once ripped what is the preferred front end UI and database tool to organize the data? Media portal? My movies?

I'm assuming its best to run your OS and media software on a dedicated drive and then archive all your content on separate drives. Is it possible to run a computer with say six total drives, 1 for the OS (160 gig), and 5 for storage (1.5TB)? Can I do that with Windows?

AbMagFab

11-04-08, 06:53 AM

newcomers

11-04-08, 07:59 AM

1) You should consider a RAID array, as you'll want one "logical" drive, rather than having to find the drive, then find the media. You can also build some fault tolerance so if you have a failure, you don't need to rescan things.

2) DVD's take about 4GB to 8GB each. BluRay's take 25GB to 45Gb each.

3) Open question here. For SD content, XBMC (either on an old XBox, or now on a PC) is by far the best. Once you get into any sort of HD content, XBMC is still very much a work in progress. I personally prefer Media Portal.

Why would it make a difference to the front end if the movie is a normal dvd or BD? I thought the front end's just list the movies and then you get pdvd or tmt to play the movie?

Joseph Clark

11-04-08, 09:06 AM

I use UnRAID to store my digital media (as well as all my other important data). Right now, it supports 17 total drives, of which 15 are available for storage. That's 22.5TB of total storage space with the new 1.5TB drives, with 2-3TB drives on the way soon (and an easy swap-out away). Once UnRAID is up and running, Windows sees the storage in your network.

There are UnRAID threads here on AVS.

movax

11-04-08, 11:35 AM

My concerns are:

1. Storage capacity. I want to be able to store all my movie/TV content and allow it to grow to include new content. With the advent of 1.5TB drives the options seem huge.

Question: Can i just build a HTPC with as many HDDs as the motherboard has SATA ports? Or will the OS software prohibit me to a certain set limit?

1. IMHO, the ideal storage solution is a RAID array in your friendly neighborhood fileserver, either in RAID 5 or 6. They give me plenty of read performance + gigabit ethernet to toss 1080p MKVs around like chew-toys. The primary benefit of course to doing a RAID, in particular level 5 or 6, is data safety when it comes to hardware failure: 5 will let one disk fail, 6 will let two fail. It won't protect against soft failures though (virii, etc).

Downside is cost - RAID controllers can be expensive. (Please don't use your mobo software RAID for this). Additionally, RAID 5 takes away one drive from total storage capacity, RAID 6 takes two. (i.e. w 6x640 drives, you only really have 5x640 for storage).

If you don't care about that though, then yeah, go right ahead and chuck a bunch of 1TB HDDs in your case. Just make sure they stay nice and cool.

As for your OS remark, 2TB drives and others when they come out will create problems at low-level due to finally exceeding the capabilities of the MBR, necessitating use of GPTs, which leads to EFI, etc...

2. When I rip my DVDs to the computer how much space should i anticipate they consume? (~800MB-1GB?) What format are they in typically ripped to?

This is a science unto itself. You could always just rip the ISOs themselves. You could rip them to MPEG-4 ASP (your traditional 700mb DivX/XviD rips). You could rip them to MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) into MKV with multiple audio tracks saved + subtitles.[/quote]

3. Once ripped what is the preferred front end UI and database tool to organize the data? Media portal? My movies?

I love XBMC on my Xbox for this - absolutely amazing for TV Shows. Obviously, the Xbox cannot handle much in the way of HD content, so that's why I also use XBMC on Windows (Vista 64) - very nice themes (Aeon), playback support (ffmpeg/lavc), and awesome movie information scrapers, etc.

Of course, there are competitors in this arena as well, but I only feel qualified enough to discuss XBMC.[/quote]

I'm assuming its best to run your OS and media software on a dedicated drive and then archive all your content on separate drives. Is it possible to run a computer with say six total drives, 1 for the OS (160 gig), and 5 for storage (1.5TB)? Can I do that with Windows?

Yep, that's not an issue. My HTPC is in fact running on just a single 74GB Raptor since content is on a fileserver.

movax

11-04-08, 11:38 AM

Why would it make a difference to the front end if the movie is a normal dvd or BD? I thought the front end's just list the movies and then you get pdvd or tmt to play the movie?

XBMC (on PC obviously) handles my HD content* just fine.

* HD Content = 480p ASP, 720p ASP/AVC, 1080p ASP/AVC in AVI, MP4, MKV, M2TS w/ audio formats MP3, AAC, PCM, AC3, DTS, WMA Pro Audio

= can passthrough to external receiver

Disclaimer: However, it is not flawless on WMV files (obviously). The total playback time is wrong, so seeking can be a bit wonky. But they are split properly.

keevee

11-04-08, 01:30 PM

I am really interested in this thread as i do have an ATI 4670. I have a couple of related questions:

1) I have a BD disk drive on my HTPC. I would like to know if i have to enable any special configuration in my video card settings (catalyst center) to enable 1080p24 when playing the blue ray movies. The default display settings is 1920x1080 at 32 bits and 60 Hz refresh rate.

2)Can someone please point me to good threads or how-to docs on avsforum that details how to get to PQ from regular DVDs. I use VMC's inbuilt video player for video playback and already think that the picture looks nice on my LCD display. Using such processors, can i make it look even better. I saw on some threads where people say that SD post processing can make DVDS (480p) look almos as good as a BD feed. Is this true?.

I would really appreciate your feedbacks...Thanks!!.

Muad"Dib

11-04-08, 01:32 PM

I have always had better experiences with a RAID 10 array compared to a RAID 5 FWIW...

mslide

11-04-08, 02:56 PM

Why would it make a difference to the front end if the movie is a normal dvd or BD? I thought the front end's just list the movies and then you get pdvd or tmt to play the movie?

Exactly, that's all a front end should do. I use xlobby and all you do is associate certain file extensions to whatever program you want. Got an MKV, no problem, just tell it to fire up whatever you want. Blu-ray? You could rip them to .iso and have it call up a batch file or daemon tools to mount it and then have windows automatically fire up TMT. DVD's? Rip to video_ts and tell xlobby to always fire up zoomplayer or theatertek.

3. Once ripped what is the preferred front end UI and database tool to organize the data? Media portal? My movies?

xlobby (front end / UI) + dvd profiler (movie database) + girder (automation tool to glue everything together) + <insert your favorite movie player>. It's the only combination that allows me to come up with an interface that is exactly what I want. I only use this for movies. Last time I tried my movies, it was horribly slow and sluggish and not customizable enough. Media portal and meedio are very good programs but I couldn't get the exact interface I wanted (I only care about movies. I don't give a crap about looking at photos and what not).

Then again, that question is like asking what's the best type of car to drive. Everyone will have their own different answer.

movax

11-04-08, 06:10 PM

I download Top Gear from finalgear website. That is the only thing I download.

E5200 is half the price of E8400 in Australia. I think I can live with the risk at that price.

What is the E5200? T5200 is the mobile C2D @ 1.6GHz. If you meant E7200 or E8200, then yes, they will easily handle 1080 content, even files with stupidly high amount of r-frames. (Disclaimer: Assuming that "average" amounts of background tasks are running - Firefox, Outlook, AV, firewall, etc all running and I still get lag-free playback with a weaker C2D (E4300)).

jack__flack

11-04-08, 10:34 PM

Although I've built numerous computers, HTPCs are all new ground for me. I've learned a bunch lurking here for a while so thanks to everyone. However, I have a very basic question that I can't seem to find the answer to. Maybe they need to go in a thread regarding specific motherboards or hardware, if so let me know I'll post there.

I'm looking at one of the new GeForce 9300/9400 boards like the Asus P5N7A-VM. All I want to do is get my DVD/BluRay disks on the system and have no problems connecting it through my receiver (currently a Pioneer Elite 54TX but maybe a new SC-05 soon). I have a small flat pannel in another room that I serve from the reciever using audio/video over cat5, so something that can be down sampled to standard video is a must.

Pioneer doesn't downsample HDMI and put it out the zone 2, but will downsample something that comes in on component/digital audio.

Question: is there a setup that will allow a system built around the GeForce 9300 to have simultaneous output via HDMI and some sort of analog video(component, s-video, etc.) and digital audio at the same time? That way, both the main screen and the remote zone could be active at the same time and I don't have to worry about switching configurations depending on where something should play.

jbrennan8

11-05-08, 11:56 AM

Hi--I was thinking of upgrading my avr to a Yamaha RX V633. I have read that this receiver will not recogniz via hdmi . Specifically a faq says: "The ATI stand alone video cards(2600, 3850, 4850....etc) will not see the Yamaha RX-V663 and RX-V863 as HDMI devices. Therefore, you CAN NOT currently get "ANY" kind of audio to pass through an HDMI connection from an ATI video card to these Yamaha receivers."

My card is HIS Hightech H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 IceQ Turbo 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP. Will this work with the Yamaha receiver?

thanks

AbMagFab

11-05-08, 12:09 PM

My card is HIS Hightech H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 IceQ Turbo 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!

AbMagFab

11-05-08, 12:52 PM

You must like Mary Poppins. Sorry if I gave too long a description of my graphics card

Is it a floor wax and desert topping?

jbrennan8

11-05-08, 01:36 PM

Ok, how is this for a description of the card: Radeon HD 4670

renethx

11-05-08, 07:23 PM

Question: is there a setup that will allow a system built around the GeForce 9300 to have simultaneous output via HDMI and some sort of analog video(component, s-video, etc.) and digital audio at the same time? That way, both the main screen and the remote zone could be active at the same time and I don't have to worry about switching configurations depending on where something should play.
None of the current onboard graphics (GeForce 9300 etc.) supports component/s-/composite video. If you need it, you have to go with a discrete graphics card. Simultaneous digital and analog output is possible, but only in the extended mode unless the resolutions of the displays are identical. ATI cards offer Theater mode (you can watch the same movie in the secondary dispay as the primary display) that works under VMR7 and Overlay Mixer.

renethx

11-05-08, 07:45 PM

mjfink

11-05-08, 08:25 PM

Renethx,

Can you please explain what exactly a more powerful video card does (automatically) or allows you to do (manually) in the post-processing realm? If I took my 4850 and swapped in a 46XX (and changed nothing else) would I see a difference in PQ?

I apologize for the simple questions, but I have a 4850, and I just wonder if there's something that I need to do to enable post-processing, or if it's just done automatically by the 4850. I always had the feeling that the video card (with the exception of 3D) power was a non-issue for HTPC.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I really want to know what/how to best utilize my 4850.

Thx!

Me too. At least it is plain wrong to say that a top upconverting DVD player outperforms HTPCs in general in PQ by comparing it with a HTPC equipped with GeForce 8500 GT. Read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14993273#post14993273). In my test GeForce 8500 GT is better than Radeon HD 4550, but far inferior to a high-end card such as HD 4850.

renethx

11-05-08, 09:30 PM

cenerhimself

11-06-08, 12:35 AM

Is it possible to build a HTPC for under $250? I don't want to spend a lot on something that will just sit in my TV room. I've heard a lot about Motherboards w/ onboard graphics cards that can decode HD sources easily.

My main content is downloaded .mkv/.avi files. On my 3 1/2 year old laptop, .mkv's at 720p sometimes stutter when connected to my HDTV via SVGA. All I want is to be able to play .mkv's and other hi-def sources on my HDTV through a HDMI connect from a HTPC. Is under $250 possible?

renethx

11-06-08, 12:59 AM

cenerhimself

11-06-08, 09:13 AM

Maybe, if you don't include OS.

- CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz, $60
- MB: Foxconn A7GM-S AMD 780G chipset mATX, $67
- Memory: Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB, $15
- HDD: 250GB $40
- Case & PSU: $40
- Total: $222

How would this be in terms of performance of .mkv playback? Sometimes my audio is off/picture stutters on my laptop. Would the above config perform well enough to avoid those problems? Thanks!

movax

11-06-08, 09:47 AM

How would this be in terms of performance of .mkv playback? Sometimes my audio is off/picture stutters on my laptop. Would the above config perform well enough to avoid those problems? Thanks!

It should be fine - I'm an Intel guy personally, but IIRC, the 4850e easily beats out a ~2GHz C2D, which I can say from personal expierience does fine w/ 1080p AVC.

Note that you could save on the OS cost by using Linux + XBMC as your frontend. And that the more old PC parts you have laying around, the cheaper it gets :)

jack__flack

11-06-08, 09:49 AM

None of the current onboard graphics (GeForce 9300 etc.) supports component/s-/composite video. If you need it, you have to go with a discrete graphics card. Simultaneous digital and analog output is possible, but only in the extended mode unless the resolutions of the displays are identical. ATI cards offer Theater mode (you can watch the same movie in the secondary dispay as the primary display) that works under VMR7 and Overlay Mixer.

Thanks! I'm still learning the lingo, so VMR7?

movax

11-06-08, 11:07 AM

Thanks! I'm still learning the lingo, so VMR7?

Video Mixing Renderer 7 (along with its newer brother, Video Mixing Renderer 9, and its newer, hotter sister, Enhanced Video Renderer). In DirectShow, these filters are the last stop on the decoding graph.

new2pc

11-06-08, 08:10 PM

proufo

11-06-08, 10:56 PM

Hi proufo, all the current midrange to high-end graphics cards pass HQV Benchmark with the perfect score of 130 out of 130. (How is your Matrox G550?) I am interested in reading anything backing up your claim.
Hello again, renethx.

I may be missing something in the other thread but it seems you have to be very careful regarding what card you buy if you want top upconversion.

Moreover, reasonably priced cards that do top upconversion are relatively new.

Am I wrong?

renethx

11-07-08, 12:04 AM

Thermalright XP-90 CPU Heatsink
You have to buy to a retention module (perhaps you already know that). Otherwise very good.

movax

11-07-08, 10:01 AM

I am new to the entire arena of pc build. I have been doing research on the various forums for a while and I think I have finally narrowed down my config . I would really appreciate if you guys would post some feedback on my build. The aim was too build an intermediately priced HTPC. I do not intend to use it for any high end gaming
My system specs
SILVERSTONE LC-17B
SEASONIC S12 ENERGY+ 550
Western Digital Caviar SE16 320GB
ASUS M3A78
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4400+ Brisbane 2.3GHz
PNY VCG86GTSXPB GeForce 8600 GTS
Thermalright XP-90 CPU Heatsink
NEXUS 92 CPU FAN
BLU RAY Drive

If you are in the States, I would change your PSU/HDD. Your PSU is an excellent choice from an excellent brand, but Antecs are also excellent PSUs, and I believe they are on sale @ newegg for the next week or so - shop around for a good deal. ~500W is more than enough from a reputable brand such as Antec, Enermax, PC P&C, Seasonic, Corsair, OCZ, etc. (apologies to any I miseed).

As for HDD, the WD6400AAKS (640GB) drive can be had for 75USD from newegg - awesome price, and the drive is insanely fast (2x320 platters), on par with the older Raptors. Or you can pick up whomevers 1TB drive is 99 USD this week - Samsung F1, Seagate 7200.11, WD GreenPower, etc. Never hurts to have plenty of local storage on your HTPC (assuming you're not playing from network somewhere).

I think CPU could be brought up faster too, I see 5000s on sale quite often.

jbrennan8

11-07-08, 12:13 PM

Renethx,
What receiver would you recommend with a HD 4670? thanks

Smitty2k1

11-07-08, 06:28 PM

Renethx,
What receiver would you recommend with a HD 4670? thanks

If you want a budget receiver that can decode the HD audio formats (for that magical day when computers can bitstream to the receiver over HDMI) get a Yahmaha 663 or an Onkyo 606.

I hear there have been major AMD graphics card HDMI handshake issues with both though (video card driver problem?) so I'm waiting and using an older SPDIF receiver for now.

Joseph Clark

11-07-08, 06:57 PM

If you want a budget receiver that can decode the HD audio formats (for that magical day when computers can bitstream to the receiver over HDMI) get a Yahmaha 663 or an Onkyo 606.

I hear there have been major AMD graphics card HDMI handshake issues with both though (video card driver problem?) so I'm waiting and using an older SPDIF receiver for now.

I'm using an Onkyo 606 with a Radeon 3850 and a Radeon 4850 in two different computers. They're going through an Octava 3x2 HDMI switcher first, but the cards see the 606. No serious problems so far, although I infrequently get some odd resolution changes (1920x1080 to 800x600) when I switch between the Octava going to the Onkyo, then to a Denon 3808, then back again. It's an unusual setup that works great for the most part but sometimes has trouble navigating HDMI as I go from one receiver to another. (My Onkyo 606 feeds speakers in my computer/video editing room, and the Denon 3808 is in my main home theater room.)

new2pc

11-07-08, 09:35 PM

vuht2000

11-08-08, 04:49 AM

I recently tried converting my PC into an HTPC, it's a DELL Dimension E521, with EVGA 256 for video and AUZENTECH XPlosion 7.1 for sound. While image is pretty OK, the sound is not as good as the stand alone DVD player's. Now as I need the PC back I'm thinking of 2 directions:
1) keep the current PC and buy another one for my other uses, and
2) build a new HTPC and pull the DELL back.
The question I have is, if I build a dedicated HTPC (at around 5-$600), how much improvement can I get from my current DELL? I'm more concerned about picture and sound quality than aesthetic. I've read somewhere that the motherboard has a great impact on the output signal's quality, and a cheap motherboard (I believe DELL is cheap) is a distance below a good one. Or is it a better route to keep my current system and just upgrade the sound card?
Thanks

movax

11-08-08, 01:32 PM

Thanks guys..
The psu and hdd recomendations came out of silenpcreview. I just hope that my pc remains quiet, since it will be sitting in my living room.
What do you guys think about the 8600 GTS. Will it be too loud ?

It's a pretty cool running card already, but you can find passively cooled version of the 8600 as well, so 0 fan noise that way.

I recently tried converting my PC into an HTPC, it's a DELL Dimension E521, with EVGA 256 for video and AUZENTECH XPlosion 7.1 for sound. While image is pretty OK, the sound is not as good as the stand alone DVD player's. Now as I need the PC back I'm thinking of 2 directions:
1) keep the current PC and buy another one for my other uses, and
2) build a new HTPC and pull the DELL back.
The question I have is, if I build a dedicated HTPC (at around 5-$600), how much improvement can I get from my current DELL? I'm more concerned about picture and sound quality than aesthetic. I've read somewhere that the motherboard has a great impact on the output signal's quality, and a cheap motherboard (I believe DELL is cheap) is a distance below a good one. Or is it a better route to keep my current system and just upgrade the sound card?
Thanks

What audio output method are you using? Analog outs from the XPlosion to your amp?

vinuneuro

11-08-08, 07:26 PM

renethx, would appreciate your thoughts on my dilemma.

I'm torn between going for 790GX+Phenom v. non-igp+hd4650+(dual-core?). Post-processing is very important to me. In the case of using a discrete card, how much better would a board with the SB750 be than one with SB700?

tia.

mwang168

11-08-08, 08:57 PM

Need help on building a HTPC.

I plan to build a HTPC in the living room, also plan to use it as a server to service SVN repository, run Tomcat/MySQL. So power saving is a must.

Currently I have a DELL 530 with Q6600 with a fanless 2600XT video card. I think it's a overkill for a HTPC. I can use it for development.

I have several existing Antec cases (P150, P180, P182 and Solo). Here is the list I plan to get:

Case P150 (existing) with Antec EarthWatt 380W
Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H Micro ATX $80
AMD Athlon X2 4850e $60 (Should I get X2 5000+?)
4GB RAM (already have)
80GB SATA laptop drive (already have for system drive, or buy a hitachi 7200RPM laptop drive for $80)
640 WD HD (for code repository and data, $80)
HDTV Tuner (already have)
Sound Card (already have or use integrated one)

Is this good enough for recording HDTV and playing back download HD content and blueray movie?

or should I go for Intel MB/CPU? Which one should I get? I guess my primary tasks:

HD playback
HDTV recording
CD ripping/encoding to APE/MP3
Tomcat/MySQL/SVN server

Thanks much.

JohnnyBoyWonder

11-09-08, 07:15 AM

Folks,
This site provided me with just what I wanted a - recommended hardware config for a HTPC. Thanks, I have discovered I don't have a clue. Unfortunately, I live in Norway and I wanted to purchase all the bits in 1 shop (startit.no) which now seems to be difficult.

Can someone give me some feedback on the alternatives that I think will be ok and a recommendation for the CPU Cooler

CPU: Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz Socket 775 - Ok

CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90 - Nope.

....I have no idea what to get here!:(

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 chipset ATX - Ok

Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit - Nope

....How about, KINGSTON Memory/ 4GB 800MHz DDR2 ECC DIMM Kitx2 (KVR800D2E5K2/4G)

Graphics Card: HIS H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 - Ok

HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA - Nope

....I can get WD7500AAKS and WD5000AAKS

PSU: Enermax MODU82+ 525W EMD525AWT - Nope

....COOLERMASTER Real Power Modular 520W
....CORSAIR Powersupply 550W Black, ATX/EPS, 120mm

Case: Zalman HD160 Plus - Ok

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.

JBW

renethx

11-09-08, 02:55 PM

I'm torn between going for 790GX+Phenom v. non-igp+hd4650+(dual-core?). Post-processing is very important to me. In the case of using a discrete card, how much better would a board with the SB750 be than one with SB700?
HD 4650 is much better in post-processing (dual-core is enough). SB750 supports RAID 5 and ACC (Advanced Clock Calibration; an overclocking interface). Otherwise SB 750 and SB700 are identical.

renethx

11-09-08, 03:38 PM

vuht2000

11-09-08, 03:50 PM

What audio output method are you using? Analog outs from the XPlosion to your amp?

movax,
I use optical out from the XPlosion, have never tried analog. Sound is muddy and lacks the treble. Not a whole lot but as I realize this, it bothers me. It's way better than my previous card (turtle reviera). I have the most current driver. Video is amazing, nothing to complain. So, can the sound issue be solved by a new HTPC with select components, or simply by a more expensive sound card?

renethx

11-09-08, 03:53 PM

renethx

11-09-08, 04:10 PM

movax,
I use optical out from the XPlosion, have never tried analog. Sound is muddy and lacks the treble. Not a whole lot but as I realize this, it bothers me. It's way better than my previous card (turtle reviera). I have the most current driver. Video is amazing, nothing to complain. So, can the sound issue be solved by a new HTPC with select components, or simply by a more expensive sound card?
It looks like the problem is your sound system. What system do you use? Audio signal from S/PDIF (Dolby Digital/DTS bitstream) is identical between any sound card. (So it's perplexing XPlosion is better than Turtle Riviera in S/PDIF.) If you use a HDMI receiver, you may go for a graphics card supporting 7.1 LPCM through HDMI that is better than DD/DTS.

vinuneuro

11-09-08, 04:38 PM

HD 4650 is much better in post-processing (dual-core is enough). SB750 supports RAID 5 and ACC (Advanced Clock Calibration; an overclocking interface). Otherwise SB 750 and SB700 are identical.

How much does the 200mhz difference between the two SB's matter?

renethx

11-09-08, 04:54 PM

How much does the 200mhz difference between the two SB's matter?
Perhaps you mean the core clock difference between HD 3200 and HD 3300 (they are integrated in NB). There is no difference in video playback performance.

vinuneuro

11-09-08, 05:43 PM

Perhaps you mean the core clock difference between HD 3200 and HD 3300 (they are integrated in NB). There is no difference in video playback performance.

Yes, thanks for the correction.

How important is the motherboard when using a separate graphics card? There seems to be a fairly wide range of prices with them.

renethx

11-09-08, 05:59 PM

How important is the motherboard when using a separate graphics card? There seems to be a fairly wide range of prices with them.
The price of a mb depends on the price of the chipset (780G, 790GX, etc), quality of compoenents (PCB, capacitors etc.) and features it offers (ATX/mATX, IEEE 1394, S/PDIF in the rear panel etc.). But a mb of higher cost does not necessarily mean better reliability (as you can see in Newegg customer reviews of various mbs).

vinuneuro

11-09-08, 06:45 PM

How good is the sound quality with a lot of these boards (spdif)? Is it worth looking into a separate card for sound as well?

vuht2000

11-09-08, 09:16 PM

Audio signal from S/PDIF (Dolby Digital/DTS bitstream) is identical between any sound card. (So it's perplexing XPlosion is better than Turtle Riviera in S/PDIF.)

While I disagree with this, I won't go into this arguing. I guess my only concern now is, if I go build a new HTPC will it be a boost from what my DELL E521 gives now? I'm a mere movie watcher, never game, and never leave it on more than 2 hours.

renethx

11-09-08, 10:12 PM

How good is the sound quality with a lot of these boards (spdif)? Is it worth looking into a separate card for sound as well?
Discussing the sound quality difference of DD/DTS bitstreams between mb onboard audio codecs is more or less meaningless. The S/PDIF transmitter integrated in the codec (or a discrete sound card) just passes through DD/DTS bitstreams and there is no difference between codecs in this regard.

renethx

11-09-08, 10:28 PM

While I disagree with this, I won't go into this arguing. I guess my only concern now is, if I go build a new HTPC will it be a boost from what my DELL E521 gives now? I'm a mere movie watcher, never game, and never leave it on more than 2 hours.
PQ depends almost exclusively on the graphics card you choose. So if you choose a better (or worse) graphics card than the one you are using now, you may be able to expect better (or worse) PQ. As for SQ (through S/PDIF), I can't see difference between S/PDIF transmitters.

vuht2000

11-10-08, 12:21 PM

PQ depends almost exclusively on the graphics card you choose. So if you choose a better (or worse) graphics card than the one you are using now, you may be able to expect better (or worse) PQ. As for SQ (through S/PDIF), I can't see difference between S/PDIF transmitters.

renethx,
then I wonder what are the merits of building an HTPC. If I buy a moderate DELL and a good video card, and even with a new PSU, it's still a lot cheaper than building a complete HTPC from scratch. And as you said, picture quality will be as good as what video card I use. So what's different between an empowered DELL and a dedicated HTPC?
Thanks

Neo541

11-10-08, 12:48 PM

Just like everyone else, I want to have an HTPC. What's different though, is that I need to upgrade my home computer, so I'm doing a 3 way trade with my office computer possibly becoming the new HTPC.

Right now I stream from my home computer to a Popcorn Hour A-110, and the PCH A-110 is a bit glitchy, it won't stream the video fast enough.

My use for this HTPC will be to stream uncompressed Blu Ray backups (m2ts) to the HTPC and play on a 52" Sony TV. I've got about 2TB so far of movies.

Can someone take a look at the specs I have below, and help me with 2 things. First, will this work and work well? Second, there's always a bottleneck somewhere, so can you let me know where you think there might be a bottleneck? Processor going to slow me down? Ram? Gigabit connection?

I'm not opposed to upgrading something if I have to, just want to know before I buy all my home pc parts if this will even work as a HTPC.

Specs:

Case Antec Sonata II with 450 Watt Antec power supply
Intel DP35DP Motherboard http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DP35DP/DP35DP-overview.htm
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 2200Mhz
2GB Ram
Plenty of hard drives (board has 6 SATA ports)
Visiontek Radeon HD 4850
Onboard sound is Intel® High Definition Audio (Intel® HD Audio) subsystem in the following configuration:
8-channel (7.1) audio subsystem with five analog audio outputs and one optical S/PDIF digital audio output using the Sigmatel STAC9271D* audio codec

Speqtre

11-10-08, 02:01 PM

renethx,
then I wonder what are the merits of building an HTPC. If I buy a moderate DELL and a good video card, and even with a new PSU, it's still a lot cheaper than building a complete HTPC from scratch. And as you said, picture quality will be as good as what video card I use. So what's different between an empowered DELL and a dedicated HTPC?
Thanks

Off the top of my head, at least two things: Appearance/size, and noise.

Many people looking for an htpc want to integrate it into their equipment rack, and would like to have it as quiet as possible.

walterg74

11-10-08, 02:21 PM

By reading the posts, I see that there is no sound card currently (or maybe just came out or about to come out) that outputs the newest sound formats, etc.

what confuses me, or havent figured out is:

Is there any sound card, be it standalone or embedded in the motherboard, that while not decoding the audio formats, at least passes the signal to say an external decoder so I can at least using this decoder enjoy the full sound of newer formats? Or is the HTPC situation stuck at the older formats at the moment? :confused:

archibael

11-10-08, 03:21 PM

You can pass the formats as decoded 7.1 LPCM over HDMI right now on at least three solutions (Nvidia and Intel motherboards, ATI discrete card) and supposedly the Asus Xonar (?) sound card as well. The problem there is that any sound >48kHz, 16 bit is downgraded to those numbers, and there are indeed some soundtracks out there with 24 bit sound-- maybe even 96kHz, though I don't recall any titles in particular right now.

The sound solutions listed above are fully capable of the higher sampling and bit depths but the playback software is apparently stymied by DRM agreements (or their interpretation thereof). The only solution would be a graphics or sound card which would pass the undecoded bitstream, and unless the Xonar is working, there's no solution for this right now.

mudwiggle

11-10-08, 03:32 PM

I just bought an Asus HD 4650 (with native HDMI output). Do you think this will provide the best possible (current) picture quality for my Samsung 46" LCD, or is the 4850 series better? I don't game at all, it's just for watching HD/SD movies etc.

walterg74

11-10-08, 04:01 PM

chuckvb

11-10-08, 04:16 PM

I'm thinking of upgrading my HTPC video card to better ATI gaming card with 7.1 LCPM over the HDMI/DVI. Will any 4850 or 4870 with HDMI give me the 7.1? How about cards with only DVI outputs?

JohnnyBoyWonder

11-10-08, 04:59 PM

- Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI, Xigmatek HDT-SD964 or Zalman CNPS9300 AT.
- Memory: Kingston is OK (although ECC is not supported by the chipset). You may find a cheaper non-ECC memory. Basically any DDR2-800 non-ECC should work.
- HDD: WD7500AAKS and WD5000AAKS are OK.
- PSU: Corsaire is perhaps a better choice.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I can get a Zalman CNPS9700 NT but the literature says it is a little bigger than the Zalman CNPS9300 AT you suggested. I was wondering, will I have any space problems when mounting it?

renethx

11-10-08, 05:17 PM

renethx,
then I wonder what are the merits of building an HTPC. If I buy a moderate DELL and a good video card, and even with a new PSU, it's still a lot cheaper than building a complete HTPC from scratch. And as you said, picture quality will be as good as what video card I use. So what's different between an empowered DELL and a dedicated HTPC?
Thanks
If you are not interested in the aesthetic aspect of HTPC, then you can use a moderate Dell system with appropriate hardware/software components as a HTPC.

archibael

11-10-08, 05:19 PM

So in essence, even though it'd be nice to have an HTPC as an all-in-one solution, at this moment an HD HTPC isn't really a complete HD HTPC then, is it? Guess for now then I'd be better off with my standalone players and 7.1 decoder/amplifier and speaker set... :confused:

If you believe you can tell the difference between 24 bit and 16 bit sound, or between 96kHz and 48kHz sound, and are not willing or able to rip and remux into FLAC, yes, at this point you're better off with a standalone.

renethx

11-10-08, 05:34 PM

My use for this HTPC will be to stream uncompressed Blu Ray backups (m2ts) to the HTPC and play on a 52" Sony TV. I've got about 2TB so far of movies.

Can someone take a look at the specs I have below, and help me with 2 things. First, will this work and work well? Second, there's always a bottleneck somewhere, so can you let me know where you think there might be a bottleneck? Processor going to slow me down? Ram? Gigabit connection?

I'm not opposed to upgrading something if I have to, just want to know before I buy all my home pc parts if this will even work as a HTPC.

Specs:

Case Antec Sonata II with 450 Watt Antec power supply
Intel DP35DP Motherboard http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DP35DP/DP35DP-overview.htm
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 2200Mhz
2GB Ram
Plenty of hard drives (board has 6 SATA ports)
Visiontek Radeon HD 4850
Onboard sound is Intel® High Definition Audio (Intel® HD Audio) subsystem in the following configuration:
8-channel (7.1) audio subsystem with five analog audio outputs and one optical S/PDIF digital audio output using the Sigmatel STAC9271D* audio codec
The system will work well. HD 4850 is overkill (unless you play games) and cosumes too much power, HD 4670 is enough. Do you play mkv files? If so, you may want either a faster CPU or a mb with overclocking options in case hardware acceleration does not work.