Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 18

wirelessbitz

11-12-08, 10:11 AM

Wow, so much information and so little time. I've been reading thru these threads and elsewhere on the web on HTPC and NAS/home-servers and would like some input on what I'm trying to do.

I currently have as my home pc a P4 2.4GHz processor running on an Asus P4s800 MB with a RAID1 (2 500GB) and 60GB root drive with 1GB ddr RAM. The PSU is 300W. I have various HDD's laying around the house from old rigs. I use my xbox360 to stream pics and music to my HT today.

I'm slowly building up inventory as deals become available, and intend to use the upcoming black Friday to complete my equipment purchases. So far I have bought the 8600GTS, a 450W power supply, 2 GB ddr2 and a zerotherm cooler (all for under $50 AR - thanks www.slickdeals.net).

I'm tired of paying $125/mo. for comcast dvr service and plan on killing that. I think I have my wife convinced we can live with OTA local HD channels, DVD/HD-DVD/BluRay and downloading online shows. We'll see but obviously I need this to run smoothly to prevent the wife factor from jumping into the red. We also have a tv in the bedroom where dvr'd shows are watched (spongbob is big here with the kids) so I'll need to stream content to it.

What do I want to build?

1) I want to build a new home PC based on a quad core that I can do some video editing. I don't need help with these components. I have alot of DV tapes that need to be put in storage. I will use the 8600GTS card in this rig.
2) I want to build a streaming NAS. Probably running WHS. I'm thinking that my existing pc setup (p4 2.4GHz/P4S800 w/ 1GB RAM) running WHS and various HDD's can support my NAS requirements and streaming ability. I'll have DVD's and home videos/pic's to stream, and maybe some downloaded shows (altho I suspect the htpc will store the downloaded shows).
3) A mid range htpc. I will use the guide here to build this (thanks!). I only watch HD content (I can't go back...) so that will dominate its usage. I do have a nice home theater setup and expect to continue to use that to its full potential (and chagrin from my neighbors).

And yes, my home is networked (wired and wirelessly).

Does this make sense? Am I correct in using my old PC components to build the NAS? I don't need a HW RAID card with WHS? My mobo is not one of the recommended mobo's but I'm assuming it will suffice for NAS but not htpc.

Obviuosly I'm going to be spending some bucks, but my real concern is doing three systems at the same time. Any inputs on whether I am missing something would be greatly appreciated. Will this work? I am comfortable building PC's and networking components, but I don't have alot of surplus time.

Thanks! Wireless

dink

11-12-08, 10:26 AM

Wireless,

I can only speak on my own experiences. For your NAS 100Mb ethernet may be ok but I would suggest giga since you intend on streaming 1080p, i was wired for giga but had multiple 100Mb devices on my lan, I found when streaming 1080p at the same time there was alot of network activity i would sometimes get chopiness. Since moving to all giga ive yet to encounter that problem. Also, you mentioned you are planning on doing strictly HD content. I dont know how much storage space you have lying around the house but i have 5 TB and im more than 3/4 full. it goes fast when dealing with Bluray/HD-DVD and other 1080p content.

wirelessbitz

11-12-08, 10:49 AM

Thanks dink, I hadn't thought too much about that. I will be streaming 1080i (my tv only accepts 1080i in hdmi and 1080p on VGA which is what my xbox uses). I'm not using hub's but switches in the network so I hope to be able to support 100mb for the htpc. I'll probably start this way so I can use my existing mobo, but switch it out if needed. I just don't want to throw away my P4 system...I already have an old pc or two laying around not being used.

As for the NAS, I expect to buy a few TB drives and an expansion card (HW raid perhaps) altho I'm not sure if that will work with WHS...more research...

Joseph Clark

11-12-08, 11:26 AM

Cobrajet428

11-12-08, 11:26 AM

I'm posting a reference here as this seems to be the most active related thread.

As you consider components for your HTPC and contemplate using a HD4670 to drive your HDMI-input TV, consider this turkey:

PowerColor HD4670 has no DVI-HDMI adapter (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15054018)

Reviews and manufacturer's spec/packaging actually show otherwise.

I would be very interested to hear from anyone else that was surprised in this fashion, especially anyone that found a solution where HDMI audio has been tested to work.

Thanks,
CJ428

wirelessbitz

11-12-08, 11:33 AM

Keep in mind that Windows Home Server is a mirroring backup system. It uses almost double the hard drive space of RAID5 or UnRAID type storage, where you lose only one drive to parity. (With WHS, a 40GB movie takes up 80GB.)

Yea, that is a bummer. Not so much for the cost of the double amount of drives, but the energy costs. I REALLY want the convenience of WHS, and reading on the improvements of it over time, I think it is a good solution. I suppose I couldn't put a HW raid card in the box with WHS and 'trick' it into supporting a RAID5/6?

Joseph Clark

11-12-08, 11:43 AM

Not likely. UnRAID spins down the drives when they're not in use. It can be a pretty energy efficient solution. It's a lot better than the unprotected RAID0 I used to employ with my systems (although a lot slower).

wirelessbitz

11-12-08, 12:12 PM

Yea, I'm still considering unraid...so many decisions...

On the flip side of things, what if I just stay with my xbox and use XBMC for the interface between my server and HT? With the new dashboard etc. coming out this month, perhaps I don't need a htpc?

I'[ll use my high end pc to do all the file conversions etc. and feed that into the server, and then use xbmc to feed my HT from the server.

I expect the biggest thing I am losing is the dvr capability. But if I get rid of comcast and only use HD OTA, DVD/HD_DVD-BluRay and downloaded content on the HT, I don't need a dvr.

What am I missing?

dink

11-12-08, 12:25 PM

I dont think xbmc for xbox will handle 1080i, new dash or not but the xbmc devs would probably have a better idea. I plan on either building 3 htpc's or buying 3 mac mini's. If the xbox could handle that content i would seriously reconsider.

I already have 3 xbox's with xbmc, it chokes on most mkv's and i dont expect that to really change. decisions decisions........

I would love to build 3 new boxes but i really like the form factor of the mac mini's I really wish they would have announced an upgraded mini like everyone expected. It would have made my life alot easier.

Canadian Dave

11-12-08, 02:53 PM

Hey guys, I've been lurking this forum (this post in particular) for ages and am finally ready to pull the trigger on an HTPC. Does anyone see any issues or have any suggestions for the below? It will be used for playing .mp3s and DVD rips in 720P (although I'd like it to be capable of play BRay in 1080P in the future). It's built through a local company, memoryexpress .com, and yes, I know the prices are much higher than our friends to the South get to enjoy!!!

1 x SEAGATE - 500GB Barracuda 7200.11 SATA II w/ NCQ, 32MB Cache ($69.99)
1 x SEAGATE - 1TB Barracuda 7200.11 SATA II w/ NCQ, 32MB Cache ($134.99)
1 x LG - Super Multi Blue Blu-ray / HD DVD-ROM Drive, SATA, Black (Retail Box) ($159.99)
1 x AMD - Athlon™ X2 4850e w/ 2x512K Cache (Retail Box) ($89.99)
1 x Assemble - Assemble Hardware + Load my O/S ($70.00)
1 x Gigabyte - GA-MA78GM-S2H w/ DualDDR2 1066, 7.1 Audio, Gigabit Lan, 1394, PCI-E, CrossFireX, HDMI/ DVI ($99.99)
1 x ANTEC - New Solution Series NSK2480 Desktop Case w/ EarthWatts 380W Power Supply ($134.99)
1 x Scythe - SHURIKEN Low-Profile CPU Cooler ($34.99)
1 x Corsair - 2GB XMS2-6400 TWIN2X Dual Channel DDR2 Kit (2 x 1GB) ($59.99)
1 x Microsoft - Windows Vista Home Premium x86 (32-bit) DVD w/ SP1, OEM, 1-Pack ($159.99)

renethx

11-12-08, 05:26 PM

So what do you think? is the gpu on the mainboard strong enough for xvid/divx/720p/1080p@24p mkv and DVD/BD/HD? or is the hd 4650 a better deal?
Forget about onboard video, 4650 is far much better for DVD. However some people report micro-stutters and/or audio drift at 24Hz. If you use S/PDIF, there is no reason to use a discrete sound card, ALC889A is good enough.

renethx

11-12-08, 07:07 PM

My goals are as follows:
1. Be able to play WoW at the highest resolution with effects
2. Play all current HD content via BD or downloaded/ripped files.
3. 5.1 sound via soundcard or video (not entirely sure how this works, will expand to 7.1 eventually)
4. cost as close to 1k as possible.

This is a welcome home gift to myself, any input is very very welcomed.
WoW does not require much GPU power. Core 2 Duo E8400/E8500, 4GB RAM and a mid-range graphics card should be fine. Check my high-end systems at page 85. Which audio connection do you use, HDMI or S/PDIF? A sound card is unnecessary unless you use analog. Make sure the onboard audio codec supports DDL or DTS Connect if you use S/PDIF.

vinuneuro

11-13-08, 12:15 AM

How much better do you think a 4850 will be compared to a 4670 in post-processing? 800 v. 320 streamers. Is there a point beyond which it doesn't make a difference?

renethx

11-13-08, 12:34 AM

How much better do you think a 4850 will be compared to a 4670 in post-processing? 800 v. 320 streamers. Is there a point beyond which it doesn't make a difference?
They are identical in post-processing.

vinuneuro

11-13-08, 12:49 AM

They are identical in post-processing.

Why do you say that?

renethx

11-13-08, 01:04 AM

Why do you say that?
By experiments.

vinuneuro

11-13-08, 01:23 AM

by experiments.

hqv?

renethx

11-13-08, 01:25 AM

hqv?
Yes, and DVDs.

vinuneuro

11-13-08, 01:33 AM

Yes, and DVDs.

So is there any difference between the 4670 and say 4650 or 4550? I don't understand how there could be no difference at in SD playback between the 4670 and 4850, the number of streamers is crucial to post-processing right?

renethx

11-13-08, 01:44 AM

So is there any difference between the 4670 and say 4650 or 4550? I don't understand how there could be no difference at in SD playback between the 4670 and 4850, the number of streamers is crucial to post-processing right?
SD post-processing of 4550/4350 is weak. The number of stream processors:

- 4350/4550: 80
- 4650/4670: 320
- 4850/4870: 800

A reasonable guess is that 80 is too small for proper post-processing, 320 is plenty enough, but 800 is way overkill. As a matter of fact GPU activity of 4670 when running HQV Benchmark is less than 50% and that of 4850 is less than 20%.

vinuneuro

11-13-08, 02:00 AM

renethx

11-13-08, 02:13 AM

Would there be any playback performance difference using an AMD 5400+ v. an Intel E7200 using a 4670?

Within the AMD line-up a major distinguishing difference is in L2 cache size. How important is this? All the dual-cores up to the 6000+ have 1mb total, whereas the 6000+ and up have 2mb.

For most HTPC's using a video card and single HD, would a 380W PSU be enough?
The processor little affects video playback performance of a discrete graphics card. SpHeRe31459 tested HD 3470 (http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2602&Itemid=1) with Athlon 64 3700+ (single core, 2.2GHz). It gave near perfect scores in both SD and HD HQV Benchmarks.

380W is enough (unless you use a gaming card such as HD 4870 X2).

dink

11-13-08, 02:29 AM

renethx,

You seem to have a very good handle on this stuff so I wanted to ask your opinion on something, I would like to replace my xbox's with htpc's, i was leaning heavily towards mini-itx because of the form factor but i was unsure of how well on board graphics could handle the high-end 1080p stuff. I am not totally against micro-atx. The two most important factors to me

1. Playability of 1080p and the various codecs. I know there will always be some bitrates or encoded files that will cause problems but my goal is to handle 90-95% of whatever i throw at it.

2. Form factor, the smaller the better, I know small normally means it will run hotter but i want a happy medium there.

I don't really care about the price of the components. Any recommendations?

renethx

11-13-08, 02:40 AM

dink

11-13-08, 02:46 AM

Check my recommendations at page 85.

I did but was unsure of whether the itx system could handle 1080p content well enough.

renethx

11-13-08, 02:59 AM

I did but was unsure of whether the itx system could handle 1080p content well enough.
Yes, it can handle 1080p contents well. If you want to be sure, you may go with E7200/7300/7400 or E8400/E8500.

dink

11-13-08, 03:23 AM

Yes, it can handle 1080p contents well. If you want to be sure, you may go with E7200/7300/7400 or E8400/E8500.

Great info!

Thanks

kr8zy

11-13-08, 04:36 AM

Hi

I was wondering if anyone can help me find a suitable desktop/htpc case. It needs to:

1. fit in a unit approx. 30cm deep (it can stick out the back but if it does then it either cannot have any feet, or the back feet cannot be more than about 30cm from the front)
2. take full size pci card(s) (don't mind using a riser if necessary)
3. be low(ish) cost (I guess the best way to accomplish this is to find one that comes with a PSU?)

The Antec NSK1480 ticks boxes 1 and 3 but not 2 and the NSK2480 ticks boxes 2 and 3 but not 1 (as it has feet)! I'm in the UK if that makes any difference.

Thanks!

grittree

11-13-08, 08:34 AM

The NSK2480 doesn't have bottom vents near the rear. Just epoxy new feet in place.

soulsedition

11-13-08, 08:59 AM

WoW does not require much GPU power. Core 2 Duo E8400/E8500, 4GB RAM and a mid-range graphics card should be fine. Check my high-end systems at page 85. Which audio connection do you use, HDMI or S/PDIF? A sound card is unnecessary unless you use analog. Make sure the onboard audio codec supports DDL or DTS Connect if you use S/PDIF.

Renethx,

I will be using an ONKYO 606 for my receiver. I'm sure that HDMI and S/PDIF both have their merits, but to be honest i don't know the difference. If you were to build a computer to those specs, and could go as far as spend 1.2k- what system would you build?

renethx

11-13-08, 09:16 AM

Renethx,

I will be using an ONKYO 606 for my receiver. I'm sure that HDMI and S/PDIF both have their merits, but to be honest i don't know the difference. If you were to build a computer to those specs, and could go as far as spend 1.2k- what system would you build?
ATX System - High-End - Intel/Intel.

kr8zy

11-13-08, 10:04 AM

The NSK2480 doesn't have bottom vents near the rear. Just epoxy new feet in place.

Thanks. This is an option but to be honest I'd prefer an out-of-the-box solution. Any suggestions?

theclear

11-13-08, 11:09 AM

Forget about onboard video, 4650 is far much better for DVD. However some people report micro-stutters and/or audio drift at 24Hz. If you use S/PDIF, there is no reason to use a discrete sound card, ALC889A is good enough. Hi, could u help on this : i have a Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 with Abit Fatal1ty F-190HD and 667 mhz ddr2 on one pc and my HTPC with Athlon X2 4850e, GA-MA78GM-S2H (rev.1.1) and 800mhz ddr2, and I'm planning to by a 4650 or 4670 from asus cause is the only company thats have a native HDMI (a must) which combination will give me more performance ? Intel +46... or AMD + 46...? thanks in advance:D:D

Valnar

11-13-08, 11:13 AM

monad68

11-13-08, 11:15 AM

i'd like to build a low end system, but am ambivalent between the intel/intel, intel/nvidia, amd/amd, and amd/nvidia solutions.

they're all around the same price. what's the best one? i am going to try to build something especially low power/low noise.

UnderDaHill

11-13-08, 11:43 AM

This is my working plan for my upcoming HTPC build. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

NOTE: the harddrive configuration will obviously not work in this case (only two slots for drives). Any suggestions for 1.5TB drives I should use for the two drives instead of the 640gb and the two 1TB drives listed below? Is the the Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB my only option and is it a good option for a quiet HTPC setup?

Would the better option be to use two Western Digital Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB drives and not put the 640gb drive in as the system drive?

Is there a noteable difference between the "Green" and "GP" versions of the WD10EACS? I see that the GP version is under $100 on newegg copared to $115 for the Green version.

System

CPU: Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz Socket 775 - $189
CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000 - $30
Motherboard: Intel DG35EC Intel G35 microATX - $85
Memory: DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit - $49
Graphics Card: HIS H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 - $160
HDD1 (OS/Applications): Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA - $75
HDD2 (family photos/videos/music) Western Digital WD Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB - $115
HDD3 (recorded video) Western Digital WD Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB - $115
PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX - $70
PVR: AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe - $80
Case: Antec Fusion Remote - $180
Optical drive: LG GGC-H20L - $150
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium Service Pack 1 - $116
KB/Mouse: Microsoft Wireless Entertainment Desktop 7000 - $90

Total Price: $1504

Neo541

11-13-08, 12:18 PM

NOTE: the harddrive configuration will obviously not work in this case (only two slots for drives). Any suggestions for 1.5TB drives I should use for the two drives instead of the 640gb and the two 1TB drives listed below? Is the the Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB my only option and is it a good option for a quiet HTPC setup?

Would the better option be to use two Western Digital Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB drives and not put the 640gb drive in as the system drive?

I have 2 1.5TB Barracuda's, a 1 TB Barracuda, plus my system drive. No complaints with them, but some people have had trouble with the 1.5's.

Have you thought of using an external eSata enclosure for extra hard drives? I have a 1TB external eSata for my Directv and it's pretty darn quiet. Only reason I suggest it is that's the route I'll have to go soon...

UnderDaHill

11-13-08, 01:17 PM

I have 2 1.5TB Barracuda's, a 1 TB Barracuda, plus my system drive. No complaints with them, but some people have had trouble with the 1.5's.

Have you thought of using an external eSata enclosure for extra hard drives? I have a 1TB external eSata for my Directv and it's pretty darn quiet. Only reason I suggest it is that's the route I'll have to go soon...

I'd like to avoid the external enclosure for now. I have a 1TB USB external that I'll be using for backing up system data, pictures, and home videos. But thats only there when I do the backup. I'm trying to keep this setup as clean as possible.

I'm leaning towards 2x 1TB drives and keeping all the system, pictures, home videos, and music all on the c: drive and using the extra 1TB for PVR use.

At a later date I may invest in a NAS or DAS.

renethx

11-13-08, 05:23 PM

Hi, could u help on this : i have a Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 with Abit Fatal1ty F-190HD and 667 mhz ddr2 on one pc and my HTPC with Athlon X2 4850e, GA-MA78GM-S2H (rev.1.1) and 800mhz ddr2, and I'm planning to by a 4650 or 4670 from asus cause is the only company thats have a native HDMI (a must) which combination will give me more performance ? Intel +46... or AMD + 46...? thanks in advance:D:D
There is no difference in video playback performance between Intel and AMD.

The exceptional case is that HD decoding is done by CPU. Athlon X2 4850e (and Pentium E5200) is fast enough to decode most 1080p contents, but a triple core processor is better (Phenom X3 8450 or higher). Core 2 Duo E7200 or higher is perhaps a better choice for this matter because of lower power consumption.

renethx

11-13-08, 05:26 PM

renethx,

I haven't subscribed to this thread for awhile.... Have you updated your motherboard spreadsheet recently? It's such a great help for choosing the right board (and not always for an HTPC purpose).. ;)
I have a spreadsheet of recent mbs, but it's not in the form that can be released in the public as before. I am sorry for that.

renethx

11-13-08, 05:28 PM

renethx

11-13-08, 05:37 PM

Any suggestions for 1.5TB drives I should use for the two drives instead of the 640gb and the two 1TB drives listed below? Is the the Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB my only option and is it a good option for a quiet HTPC setup?

Would the better option be to use two Western Digital Caviar GP WD10EACS 1TB drives and not put the 640gb drive in as the system drive?

Is there a noteable difference between the "Green" and "GP" versions of the WD10EACS? I see that the GP version is under $100 on newegg copared to $115 for the Green version.
WD10EACS is a bit slow (5400rpm) as a system drive, but I think it is good enough for HTPC. If you are talking about these two drives (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=WD10EACS&x=21&y=30), they are identical. One is brand new and the other is recertified.

Canadian Dave

11-13-08, 06:12 PM

renethx

11-13-08, 06:28 PM

Anyone? If someone can even just confirm that this will handle 1080P and Blu-Ray then I'll go ahead and buy it! I'm looking forward to getting involved in the hobby!
The system can handle 1080p and BD well (with the aid of hardware acceleration of HD 3200).

UnderDaHill

11-13-08, 06:29 PM

WD10EACS is a bit slow (5400rpm) as a system drive, but I think it is good enough for HTPC. If you are talking about these two drives (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=WD10EACS&x=21&y=30), they are identical. One is brand new and the other is recertified.

Thanks renethx

I think I better take a closer look at my storage requirements before I move forward. I'd really like to keep the system drive faster for when I decide to do some gaming of video processing work. 1TB (or 1.5TB) + 640GB might be enough, but I don't want to get stuck with too little. DAS/NAS is always an option but I don't want to go down that road if I don't have to.

Would the Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB be a good or bad idea for a mATX HTPC that will be on 24/7 and needs to be pretty quiet?

renethx

11-13-08, 07:00 PM

Thanks renethx

I think I better take a closer look at my storage requirements before I move forward. I'd really like to keep the system drive faster for when I decide to do some gaming of video processing work. 1TB (or 1.5TB) + 640GB might be enough, but I don't want to get stuck with too little. DAS/NAS is always an option but I don't want to go down that road if I don't have to.

Would the Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB be a good or bad idea for a mATX HTPC that will be on 24/7 and needs to be pretty quiet?
The two articles WD10EADS (http://techreport.com/articles.x/15769) and Seagate's Barracuda 7200.11 1.5TB (http://techreport.com/articles.x/15730) may be helpful. WD10EADS is slow in several benchmarks, but not that bad in real world applications. At idle

- Seagate 1.5TB: 8.36W
- WD10EADS: 5.71W

So the difference is 2.5W. Two Seagate 1.5TB drives with a 40-100GB partition for OS in one of them is not bad.

monad68

11-13-08, 10:41 PM

Which form factor (ATX or mATX) are you thinking of?

sorry, i was thinking of mATX.

i require digital output (DVI or HDMI) to 1900x1200, and it looks like my options are surprisingly limited because of that.

renethx

11-13-08, 11:08 PM

sorry, i was thinking of mATX.

i require digital output (DVI or HDMI) to 1900x1200, and it looks like my options are surprisingly limited because of that.
Every system in my reocommendations (and every current graphics card) supports 1920 x 1200 via HDMI and DVI.

Intel/NVIDIA (GeForce 9300) is very good. AMD/AMD (with Radeon HD 4550) is also good.

kr8zy

11-14-08, 03:18 AM

skerich

11-14-08, 04:14 AM

Hi Renethx,

Thank you for all the time and effort you have put into maintaining the content on this forum and for taking the time to answer so many different questions. It has been a real education every time I visit this forum. I am just about done building my own home theater in the basement and the last piece to that I would like to add to make it complete is a HTPC. This is what I would like to do with it:

• Blue ray and HD DVD movie playback (Blockbuster is going all blue ray)
• Movie playback from downloaded AVI and MPG files. Home local LAN to upstairs computer that has a TB drive to transfer video files for playback on LCD projector (HDMI connection)
• PVR using GB-PVR software for recording TV (TIVO) using tuner card’s IR blaster with FIOS set top box
• WOW gaming (for my 20 something son) (component connection)
• Xbox 360 (ditto) (component connection)
• Arcsoft TMT and VMC for playback
• Harmony 1000 IR touch screen remote (IR)
• Sony STR-820 AVR (not quite sure how to use it yet)
• Mitsubishi HC1500 LCD projector
• CAT 6 LAN pulled through the house to connect computers
• Smarthomes Inteon light dimmer switches (IR to in house wiring)

Each time I come back to the forum it seems that there something bigger and better so it’s been really hard to take off of this information in to make decisions about parts and how compatible they will be. From what I read about the things that I need to be concerned about are:

• fan noise
• heat dissipation (passive cooling or 120mm fans = slower fan less noise, better cooling)
• case size vs card height
• energy efficiency (PVR will be on 24/7) (Intel vs AMD)
• offloading video decoding from CPU (video cards can off load)
• RAM compatibility with Mobo
• Chipsets 790 vs P45
• Phenom X3 vs Core 2 Duo E7300 vs AMD X2 4850e
• XP vs VISTA (lots of Apple commercials talking about VISTA problems!)

What am I missing in my concerns?

Below is my current wish list of components that I got from your suggestions and lists from other posters but I am concerned about this system being balanced, Intel vs AMD for heat/energy, CPU and mobo being compatible, any overkill, is this a balanced system?

Newegg has a lot of these items on sale right now so it this looks like it will work for what I would like to do, I would like to take advantage of the sale and price shop the rest on the Internet. It’s more quite a bit more than I was expecting to pay for this HTPC but I want this to work well and not be frustrated with it. It’s a long term (if I can use that word with computer parts) investment.

Thanks again for everything everyone does here :):)

ATX HTPC

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $74.99

Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner / Encoder 1229 PCI-Express x1 Interface - Retail -$7.00 Instant $119.99 $112.99

HIS Hightech H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported IceQ4 Turbo Video Card - Retail -$20.00 Instant $10.00 Mail-in Rebate $199.99 $179.99

CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail $10.00 Mail-in Rebate $79.99

ADESSO WKB-3000UB Black USB 2.4 GHz RF Wireless Mini Keyboard w/Optical Trackball - Retail $69.99

A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ADQVE1A16K - Retail $28.99

LTS KIT-RCST100 Vista / XP Media Center Infrared Remote Control with Receiver $29.99

Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 Wolfdale 2.66GHz LGA 775 Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E7300 - Retail $121.99

Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit English 1pk for System Builders DSP OEI DVD - OEM $179.99

ZEROtherm BTF90 92mm Silent UFO CPU Cooler - Retail
-$10.00 Instant $10.00 Mail-in Rebate $54.99 $44.99

LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20LK - OEM $139.99

Antec Black Aluminum / Steel Fusion Remote Max ATX Media Center / HTPC Case - Retail -$30.00 Instant $249.95 $219.95

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
-$9.99 Combo$20.00 Mail-in Rebate $139.98 $129.99
Subtotal: $1,413.83

Canadian Dave

11-14-08, 08:43 AM

The system can handle 1080p and BD well (with the aid of hardware acceleration of HD 3200).

Thanks renethx. Reading through your guides and posts has taught me a lot and as a noobie I definitely appreciate your contributions to this forum!!

UnderDaHill

11-14-08, 05:13 PM

Any suggestions for a Blu-ray drive at NewEgg? The LG GGC-H20L is out of stock. Is the OEM version ok, or do I want some of the software that comes with the Retail version and the cable?

mudwiggle

11-14-08, 05:18 PM

Hi Renethx,

I installed my new Asus 4650 card into the PC with the supplied drivers and CCC. I notice that under the Avivo settings, Edge Enhancement is greyed out. I Updated the drivers from the Asus website but it's still the same. Do you think it may be related to the fact that I'm running XP Home?

Apart from that, I hooked it up to the TV (Samsung 46" LCD) via HDMI and was amazed how good even SD pictures looked (using various media players), however, still no Edge Enhancement option....

At present the audio is via HDMI, through the TV, then out from the TV via RCA to the receiver (non HDMI). Would another method be better given the current equipment?

Thank very much...

Hogweed75

11-14-08, 05:58 PM

Any suggestions for a Blu-ray drive at NewEgg? The LG GGC-H20L is out of stock. Is the OEM version ok, or do I want some of the software that comes with the Retail version and the cable?

The LG GGC-H20LK dropped to $119.99 with free shpg. today. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136154

Picked up the LG GGC-H20LK and also have the GGW-H20L already. Those are $224.99 w/free shpg. and show in stock right now.

renethx

11-15-08, 07:37 AM

Below is my current wish list of components that I got from your suggestions and lists from other posters but I am concerned about this system being balanced, Intel vs AMD for heat/energy, CPU and mobo being compatible, any overkill, is this a balanced system?
A balanced system. But a possible problem is higher power consumption of the graphics card. A typical power consumption of the system (without the tuner) is

- idle: 110W
- video playback: 128W
- gaming: 183W

If you choose HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 instead,

- idle: 72W
- video playback: 85W
- gaming: 110W

Gaming performance of HD 4850 is superb, but higher power consumption is a trade off.

renethx

11-15-08, 07:48 AM

I installed my new Asus 4650 card into the PC with the supplied drivers and CCC. I notice that under the Avivo settings, Edge Enhancement is greyed out. I Updated the drivers from the Asus website but it's still the same. Do you think it may be related to the fact that I'm running XP Home?

Apart from that, I hooked it up to the TV (Samsung 46" LCD) via HDMI and was amazed how good even SD pictures looked (using various media players), however, still no Edge Enhancement option....

At present the audio is via HDMI, through the TV, then out from the TV via RCA to the receiver (non HDMI). Would another method be better given the current equipment?
Check this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1081863). A user reported the driver from the Palit site fixed a similar problem.

dmonkey17

11-15-08, 07:15 PM

Hi,

I've been lurking around this forum for a while (like many others), and just wanted a quick opinion on this setup. I will be using it with a 24" monitor for the moment (1080p), but I hope it that it will serve me in the foreseeable future when I'll have a beefier setup. It will mostly be used as a day-to-day computer, but the idea is that it will play DVDs/HDDVDs too, and eventually I'll hook it into satellite. The most important points for me are image quality when watching films, and being pretty robust as a general computer (I'll also use it for some computational tasks, so a fast processor is a bonus).

If I could save a few euros on this it wouldn't be too bad either.

Silverstone LC17
Silverstone ST50F PSU
Intel C2D 7300
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L
Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500 GB SATA
Crucial DIMM 2 GB DDR2-1066 BALLISTIX
Arctic-Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
Sapphire HD4550

I'm not a heavy gamer, but having the option would be nice. It will be run with Linux, if that makes a difference. The idea really is to start off with some decent components that I can build on in the future.

Thanks again for all the great information!

renethx

11-15-08, 07:46 PM

I've been lurking around this forum for a while (like many others), and just wanted a quick opinion on this setup. I will be using it with a 24" monitor for the moment (1080p), but I hope it that it will serve me in the foreseeable future when I'll have a beefier setup. It will mostly be used as a day-to-day computer, but the idea is that it will play DVDs/HDDVDs too, and eventually I'll hook it into satellite. The most important points for me are image quality when watching films, and being pretty robust as a general computer (I'll also use it for some computational tasks, so a fast processor is a bonus).

If I could save a few euros on this it wouldn't be too bad either.

Silverstone LC17
Silverstone ST50F PSU
Intel C2D 7300
Gigabyte GA-EP43-DS3L
Western Digital WD5000AAKS 500 GB SATA
Crucial DIMM 2 GB DDR2-1066 BALLISTIX
Arctic-Cooling Freezer 7 Pro
Sapphire HD4550

I'm not a heavy gamer, but having the option would be nice. It will be run with Linux, if that makes a difference. The idea really is to start off with some decent components that I can build on in the future.
Perhaps HIS H467QT512P HD 4670 is a better choice (more post-processing/3D power), at least under Windows.

dmonkey17

11-16-08, 05:54 AM

Perhaps HIS H467QT512P HD 4670 is a better choice (more post-processing/3D power), at least under Windows.

Thanks for the advice! Guess I'll have to save up the money now. Should I be worried about the noise from the fans (both on the graphics card and from the CPU cooler)?

Nonam

11-16-08, 11:33 AM

I need help.

The configuration of my HTPC is as follow:

CPU: Intel E8400 3GHz
Ram: 4G
Motherboard: Asus P5Q-EM (Intel G45)
TV card: Digital TV card
Blu-ray: LG GGC-H20L

I thought this configuration of hardware should be robust enough to watch Digital TV which is encoded in H.264 format in my living place and Blu-ray. But the fact is that I could not watch Blu-ray Disc using Cyberlink PowerDVD which said that my display driver was not updated (actually I have just updated the driver on 13/11/2008) or with very unsmooth playback on Intervideo WinDVD.

Can anyone tell me what's wrong with my HTPC?

I've asked the shop that they said that it was nothing to do with my CPU. They suggested me buy an external display card. I bought Asus ATI 4350 with HDMI .... even worse......... both PowerDVD and WinDVD simply closed their programs when I was trying to use them to play Blu-ray disc.

I have updated all the drivers and nothing works.

Please help.........

skerich

11-16-08, 02:02 PM

A balanced system. But a possible problem is higher power consumption of the graphics card. A typical power consumption of the system (without the tuner) is

- idle: 110W
- video playback: 128W
- gaming: 183W

If you choose HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 instead,

- idle: 72W
- video playback: 85W
- gaming: 110W

Gaming performance of HD 4850 is superb, but higher power consumption is a trade off.

Thank you for your thoughts on this configuration. What is the performance difference between the 4670 and 4850 as far as gaming is concerned? Will there be a noticeable difference with WOW?

Since I want this to be a PVR as well as a gaming machine, it will be left on all the time so power consumption, as you noted, is a bigger concern.

The Antec Funsion Remote case has a built in IR receiver so why would newegg offer a bundle with the Vista / XP Media Center IR Control? Is there something wrong with the built in receiver or a mistake on newegg's part? What am I missing here?

I was going with the GA-EP45-UD3P mobo to have some extra capacity and for the output. Is this buying too much for what I want to have this do which is WOW gaming, PVR, and movie playback blueray and HD?

A lot of reviewers like the GB-PVR software for their HTPC. In your opinions, is it better to go with MS Media Center or the open source GB-PVR? I am early adopter of TIVO and that is what I would be comparing it to.

Does anyone have experience in using this software?

I just get a little lost sometimes because there are so many options

Thanks
Steve
========================================================
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner PCI-Express x1 Interface
HIS Hightech H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 IceQ4 Turbo Video Card
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W Active PFC Power Supply
ADESSO WKB-3000UB Black USB 2.4 GHz RF Wireless Mini Keyboard
A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
LTS KIT-RCST100 Vista / XP Media Center IR Control with Receiver
Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 Wolfdale 2.66GHz LGA 775 Dual-Core
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit for System Builders DSP OEM
ZEROtherm BTF90 92mm Silent UFO CPU Cooler
LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVDSATA Model GGC-H20LK
Antec Fusion Remote Max ATX Media Center / HTPC Case
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard

Cobrajet428

11-16-08, 05:55 PM

renethx

11-16-08, 07:15 PM

Thanks for the advice! Guess I'll have to save up the money now. Should I be worried about the noise from the fans (both on the graphics card and from the CPU cooler)?
Both Sapphire HD 4550 and HDI HD 4670 are very quiet. Freezer 7 Pro is quiet at low voltage (i.e. at idle) but could be a bit loud at load. I prefer Scythe Ninja or Xigmatek HDT-SD964.

renethx

11-16-08, 07:21 PM

renethx

11-16-08, 08:07 PM

What is the performance difference between the 4670 and 4850 as far as gaming is concerned? Will there be a noticeable difference with WOW?

The Antec Funsion Remote case has a built in IR receiver so why would newegg offer a bundle with the Vista / XP Media Center IR Control? Is there something wrong with the built in receiver or a mistake on newegg's part? What am I missing here?

I was going with the GA-EP45-UD3P mobo to have some extra capacity and for the output. Is this buying too much for what I want to have this do which is WOW gaming, PVR, and movie playback blueray and HD?

A lot of reviewers like the GB-PVR software for their HTPC. In your opinions, is it better to go with MS Media Center or the open source GB-PVR? I am early adopter of TIVO and that is what I would be comparing it to.
HD 4670 is good enough for WoW at a mid-range resolution.

It's Newegg's ignorance.

GA-EP45-UD3P is not overkill for your purpose.

I have no experience with GB-PVR.

skerich

11-17-08, 12:14 AM

HD 4670 is good enough for WoW at a mid-range resolution.

It's Newegg's ignorance.

GA-EP45-UD3P is not overkill for your purpose.

I have no experience with GB-PVR.

Thanks again for your opinion on this setup. I have been reading the comments of all the members in this now huge thread and it has been a great education. And I hope to be able have enough experience with my own HTPC to contribute my own words of wisdom as you all have.

I guess I will go shopping now. I did find the case for about $40 less than newegg had it so maybe the other components can be found for less. I'd like to get this for $1k or less. I will also go with the HD 4670 to save on heat and power consumption.

skerich

11-17-08, 12:28 AM

I've been a GBPVR user for several years now. First, just to schedule and record shows which I would play from living room/bedroom using what you'd call a "slim client" (Showcenter).

Lately I've built my first full-on HTPC and am running GBPVR's GUI and recording through a Hauppauge ATSC capture card on that system. This system also includes a BluRay disc drive which came with PowerDVD7. Once I set up GBPVR to use PowerDVDs codecs for playback, I was very happy with the results. I'm driving an 1080p HDTV via HDMI.

I can't speak to alternatives, but I'm very happy with GB-PVR and feel that it's open nature (it's not open source, but openly extendable through plugins) and active community makes it likely to be a superior solution to some of the closed solutions out there.

Jon

Thanks Jon, for the info on GB-PVR. I assume the programming updates are easy to do off the internet. I have FIOS so I will need to somehow use the IR off the tuner to change the stations so that clear QAM can come through and then via HDMI to the LCD projector.

How do are you set up to change stations?
How hard/long was it for you to figure out how to set up the codecs for powerdvd?

I agree with you about it being an active community. I was looking at their site and there is a lot of ongoing development. The best ideas come out of so many working on one product.
Steve

Bonex

11-17-08, 05:14 AM

Hi there!
I think I'll buy a Sapphire 4650 for my HTPC, because I want good SD playback and I also need the component output. But I see that many shops sell a so called "512MB DDR2 1GB Hypermemory" version of the card. I don't think I need 1GB of memory to play DVD/BD and I don't like much the idea of the card using the system memory.
Do you think it's possible to force the card to use only its own memory? Or is it better to look for a non-HM version?

Joseph Clark

11-17-08, 09:42 AM

Renethx,

Do any of the current onboard graphics solutions do what the 4xxx series cards do in forcing HDMI output to video instead of PC levels? With the 4850 I use in my main HTPC, I never have to worry about the levels shifting radically when I switch from it to my Dish 622, or any other component that uses standard video levels.

spillz564

11-17-08, 09:45 AM

I'm building a 7th computer from the recommendations on this list and for some reason am having big problems with this motherboard.

I've updated to the latest F8 Bios and here's the computer specs:

Gigabyte EP43-DS3L Motherboard
A-Data DDR2 800mhz (2x1gb) Memory
Core 2 Duo E440 processor
IDE Samsung 80gb HDD
8500gt Graphics Card

I can't even seem to get the board to run the E4400 processor at the 2ghz stock speed. When I go into either the bios or use EasyTune6 to change the bus speed to 200mhz, and core voltage at 1.32V, upon reboot my multiplier automatically is reduced from x10 to x6. This results in a processor speed of 1.2ghz.

I ran prime95 for about 15 minutes and checked core temps. They were at 60C running the CPU intensive test. I've run memtest and confirmed that the memory isn't erroring out.

Can anyone help me get this to even stock speeds? I've posted the CPU-Z results via pictures. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I've never had this many problems with a Gigabyte board before (also had the Geforce 8/9 Series GPU issue but that seems to be fixed).

[edit] ...or can someone more knowledgeable than I make a guess as to whether this is mobo related? My mobo is still under warranty, but the processor isn't.

chaoconnor

11-17-08, 03:04 PM

Question: Are these in combination sufficient for HD Playback (Recorded on a HDD as well as BluRay)??? What do you think?

BIOSTAR A770 A2+ AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard

and

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Brisbane 2.7GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor

Thank you in advance!!!

rmmeli

11-17-08, 05:12 PM

I was looking at the suggested cases for the low-end and the mid-range htpc's. Is price the only reason for choosing the Silverstone in the low end rather than the Antec?

SuperTuna

11-17-08, 05:17 PM

Wow first off this is an awesome thread. I look at this thread at least twice a day to figure out what kind of configuration I want when I finally build my HTPC lol.

Quick questions -

Torn between a 4850 and 4870. Casual to heavy gamer with the need to play HD of course - is it worth the up charge?
and
SilverStone Grandia GD02-MT or the Zalman 160HD plus?

If I do go with the 4870, will it fit a Zalman HD160 plus? I'm letting the wife decide the case and I get to get the guts lol.

Tried to search the thread and online for the cards that the 160 could take but I couldn't find anything - or at least I suck at searching :D

Again, great thread and I'll be checking this out through my work day (as usual lol)

SeattleChad

11-17-08, 05:52 PM

To hold me over till I can afford a new HTPC build, I was hoping to throw an LG Blu-Ray drive into my old PC to send an HD signal to my 42" 1080p plasma via a DVI-to-HDMI adapter.

Anyone know if my current PC can handle 1080P Blu-Ray/HD-DVD playback to my plasma? I assume I'll need to use AnyDVD since my graphics card isn't HDCP-compliant.

Athlon 64 X2 3800+ 2.0GHz CPU
MSI X1800XT 512MB graphics card (might upgrade to a 4850 soon)
OCZ 2GB DDR 400 RAM
Asus A8N-SLI Premium Socket 939 Motherboard
X-Fi Fatal1ty FPS 7.1 channel sound card

Thanks for the help!

renethx

11-17-08, 06:35 PM

renethx

11-17-08, 06:40 PM

Do any of the current onboard graphics solutions do what the 4xxx series cards do in forcing HDMI output to video instead of PC levels?
NVIDIA GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 offer two Dynamic Range options, Full (0-255) and Limited (16-235). But I am not sure if it works as you want. Check the GeForce 8200 thread (search with the keyword "limited").

renethx

11-17-08, 06:56 PM

I can't even seem to get the board to run the E4400 processor at the 2ghz stock speed. When I go into either the bios or use EasyTune6 to change the bus speed to 200mhz, and core voltage at 1.32V, upon reboot my multiplier automatically is reduced from x10 to x6. This results in a processor speed of 1.2ghz.
This is a normal behavior. At the default BIOS/Windows settings, every Core 2 processor clocks down to x6 at idle (and the voltage is lowered too) and restores to the stock speed at load. This is a power saving scheme. If you want to disable it, go to the BIOS setup and disable "C1E" (forces clockdown at hw level), and either disable "Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology (EIST)" or select "High Performance" in Windows Power Options.

renethx

11-17-08, 07:00 PM

renethx

11-17-08, 07:01 PM

I was looking at the suggested cases for the low-end and the mid-range htpc's. Is price the only reason for choosing the Silverstone in the low end rather than the Antec?
Yes.

renethx

11-17-08, 07:21 PM

Torn between a 4850 and 4870. Casual to heavy gamer with the need to play HD of course - is it worth the up charge?
and
SilverStone Grandia GD02-MT or the Zalman 160HD plus?

If I do go with the 4870, will it fit a Zalman HD160 plus? I'm letting the wife decide the case and I get to get the guts lol.

Tried to search the thread and online for the cards that the 160 could take but I couldn't find anything - or at least I suck at searching :D
4850 vs 4870 depends on what frame rates do you want. So you need to read reviews on 4870 and check gaming tests.

Unless you go with a mATX mb, Zalman is a better choice (easier to work with). 4850/4870 fits the Zalman. A card longer than that (10.5" lenth, HD 4870 X2, GeForce 9800 GTX and higher) won't fit it.

renethx

11-17-08, 07:29 PM

Joseph Clark

11-17-08, 08:05 PM

NVIDIA GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 offer two Dynamic Range options, Full (0-255) and Limited (16-235). But I am not sure if it works as you want. Check the GeForce 8200 thread (search with the keyword "limited").

Sounds like it might. The other part of the equation, though, is that I want to maintain 7.1 audio via HDMI, as I have in my Radeon 4850.

The 4850 DVI to HDMI adapter provides both 7.1 HD audio via HDMI and an automatic conversion of the video signal to 16-235 (the standard video level compatible with all my other gear, not the 0-255 of the normal DVI output, which is PC level). I'm satisfied with the audio and can't tell any difference between my HTPC and my Playstation 3 HDMI audio.

I also like the quality of ATI video more than nVidia, based on cards I've owned in the past.

The question is, does any AMD/ATI mobo with integrated graphics do what the DVI to HDMI adapter does - give 7.1 HD audio and forced 16-235 video levels via HDMI?

chaoconnor

11-18-08, 08:55 AM

MB and CPU are good enough for HD contents. (Video card is more important.)

Would a single nVidia 7900 GTX card work then? I currently have two in an SLI configuration, but would be willing to seperate them. One to the backend media server and the other to the HTPC Front End.

spillz564

11-18-08, 08:58 AM

This is a normal behavior. At the default BIOS/Windows settings, every Core 2 processor clocks down to x6 at idle (and the voltage is lowered too) and restores to the stock speed at load. This is a power saving scheme. If you want to disable it, go to the BIOS setup and disable "C1E" (forces clockdown at hw level), and either disable "Enhanced Intel Speedstep Technology (EIST)" or select "High Performance" in Windows Power Options.

It worked, thanks! I'm now at 2ghz at idle.

So, based on what you're saying my understanding is as follows. When the system is at idle, it will throttle down (to x6), and that is what I was seeing when I used CPU-Z.

So I'm guessing if I use Prime95 to fully load the CPU, and then run CPU-Z again (with EIST and C1E enabled), I should see the processor speed jump back to 2ghz?

If this is the case, I think it would be best as I'm guessing it would help the power bill. With 7 computers running in the house, I'm trying to reduce power consumption as much as possible, as long as I don't affect system performance.

Nonam

11-18-08, 09:27 AM

Which OS? How do you connect the HTPC to the display? Via a receiver? Then which model? Display model (resolution)? Build number of PowerDVD? What does CyberLink BD Advisor say (for each G45 and HD 4350)? Your driver is 15.11.4 and 8.10 Hotfix, right?

Renethx thanks for your reply. The problem is fixed. My experience may be helpful for people who want to build a HTPC.

The configuration of my HTPC is now as follow:

Motherboard: Asus P5Q-EM (Intel G45)
CPU: Intel Core2 E8400 3.0GHz
Ram: Kingston 4G
Display Card: ICON Force30 ATI 4850 (I replace it)
Case: Silverstone GD01B-R
Digital TV Card: ComproDTV TH-805
Optical Driver 1: LG GGC-H20L (Blu-ray / HD-DVD)
Optical Driver 2: LG DVD Writer
Display: Sharp 42" LCD TV

OS: Windows XP Professional
AV Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR605
HDMI Cable: Denon HDMI Ver1.3a

With this configuration, I can watch digital TV encoded in H.264 (1080i) and Blu-ray in Corel WinDVD 9 Plus SMOOTHLY.

Cyberlink BD Advisor said that the driver for my display card is not up-to-date despite I am already using ATI Catalyst 8.2 (anyway the version is much higher than the requirement) and therefore I could not play Blu-ray Disc in PowerDVD. I guess there is something wrong with the Cyberlink BD Advisor. The BD movie (1080p) plays excellently in WinDVD 9 Plus.

My advise is ... Don't use Intel G45. It is not powerful enough (I guess it's due to the driver problem) to play Blu-ray. Second, don't use PowerDVD. It seems that its requirement for using it is too high to be reached by the system like mine. Third, not all display card support HDMI Ver. 1.3. Check the configuration carefully before you buy.

Hope my experience help

chaoconnor

11-18-08, 10:15 AM

Good Day! Been reading a lot on this forum and others about HTPCs and DVRs. I originally started out wanting to build a DVR to replace my Comcast box, but somewhere along the way I realized I really wanted an HTPC & a DVR. I guess I’ve confused myself by reading too much so I was hoping for some clarification/guidance.

Here is what I have readily available:
Dell XPS 700 (upgraded the Mother Board to the 720 using the exchange program from Dell)
Intel Core 2 Duo 6700 @ 2.66 GHz
nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX x 2 (in SLI configuration at this time)
2 Gigs of Ram
1 TB of HDD space across two drives

My thoughts now are to turn the XPS into my backend media server and to act as a DVR, while building a HTPC to stream data from the server and watch cable on.

If I pull one of the 7900 GTX cards from the XPS and use that in the HTPC, starting from the ground up, what are your recommendations for the HTPC? I realize perhaps I’m going about this backwards, but trying to operate on a budget and re-utilize components seems like a constraint I must deal with right now.

Having said that, if I use the Low End AMD/AMD configuration, but swap the Sapphire Radeon card w/ my 7900 GTX, would that work and I be able to stream data from the media server like watching live TV, plus Blu-Ray and HD content?

Thanks in advance for your help and inputs, it’s greatly appreciated!

archibael

11-18-08, 10:26 AM

My advise is ... Don't use Intel G45. It is not powerful enough (I guess it's due to the driver problem) to play Blu-ray. Second, don't use PowerDVD. It seems that its requirement for using it is too high to be reached by the system like mine. Third, not all display card support HDMI Ver. 1.3. Check the configuration carefully before you buy.

Hope my experience help

The G45 is entirely powerful enough to play Blu-ray, as witness the success stories with Vista. The fact that no drivers in XP are authorized to do so is a legitimate gripe, but let's be accurate in this thread.

SuperTuna

11-18-08, 10:50 AM

4850 vs 4870 depends on what frame rates do you want. So you need to read reviews on 4870 and check gaming tests.

Unless you go with a mATX mb, Zalman is a better choice (easier to work with). 4850/4870 fits the Zalman. A card longer than that (10.5" lenth, HD 4870 X2, GeForce 9800 GTX and higher) won't fit it.

Awesome, thanks for the reply on this. I'm still not sure where to go with things. lol. I just realized that registering to the forum and getting back into this thread gets you CHARTS. I was looking for a quick cheat sheet :rolleyes:

Does the better encoding according to the charts just get you faster results? I think that's it for my questions since I think I just want to bump gaming from the 4850 to the 4870 :cool:

dmonkey17

11-18-08, 03:58 PM

So I read today that ATI UVD is not supported by any software currently available on Linux. That being the case, is it worth getting the external video card, or should I get a mobo with integrated graphics? Am I right in thinking that I won't be able to make the most of the HD4550 without support for UVD?

Bonex

11-18-08, 05:36 PM

Perhaps you'd better go with a non-HM version (and the Sapphire card is not so quiet).
The fan noise is not a big problem, I'll probably change it with an Accelero S1.

BTW, does anybody knows which chipset consumes less between the AMD 770 and the 740 (with onboard graphics turned off). The 770 is 65nm while the 740 is 55nm. I don't need the IGP, but my suspect is that the 740 is more efficient, am I correct?

renethx

11-18-08, 06:50 PM

The question is, does any AMD/ATI mobo with integrated graphics do what the DVI to HDMI adapter does - give 7.1 HD audio and forced 16-235 video levels via HDMI?
I've heard HDMI port of 780G chipset gives the same level as the ATI DVI-HDMI adpater does. But IMO the quality of post-processing of IGP is subpar.

renethx

11-18-08, 06:54 PM

Would a single nVidia 7900 GTX card work then? I currently have two in an SLI configuration, but would be willing to seperate them. One to the backend media server and the other to the HTPC Front End.
As 7900 GTX lacks hardware decoder, your system will struggle to play back BD movies unless your CPU is fast enough (Core 2 Duo 3.0GHz or higher is recommended). You'd better sell it and buy a new graphics card. BTW please read the TV tuner section at page 1 to see what a PC can do as a DVR.

renethx

11-18-08, 06:56 PM

So I'm guessing if I use Prime95 to fully load the CPU, and then run CPU-Z again (with EIST and C1E enabled), I should see the processor speed jump back to 2ghz?

If this is the case, I think it would be best as I'm guessing it would help the power bill. With 7 computers running in the house, I'm trying to reduce power consumption as much as possible, as long as I don't affect system performance.
You are right. Just leave the settings to the default to save unnecessary power consumption.

renethx

11-18-08, 07:01 PM

Cyberlink BD Advisor said that the driver for my display card is not up-to-date despite I am already using ATI Catalyst 8.2 (anyway the version is much higher than the requirement) and therefore I could not play Blu-ray Disc in PowerDVD. I guess there is something wrong with the Cyberlink BD Advisor.
I thinks the reason for BD Advisor's report is that Intel graphics driver does not support BD playback under XP.

renethx

11-18-08, 07:15 PM

Does the better encoding according to the charts just get you faster results? I think that's it for my questions since I think I just want to bump gaming from the 4850 to the 4870 :cool:
Yes. My chart is based on CPU power. But GPGPU (general-purpose GPU) is now (or soon) available in many encoding applications. So a powerful graphics card will be definitely a plus.

renethx

11-18-08, 07:20 PM

renethx

11-18-08, 07:25 PM

does anybody knows which chipset consumes less between the AMD 770 and the 740 (with onboard graphics turned off). The 770 is 65nm while the 740 is 55nm. I don't need the IGP, but my suspect is that the 740 is more efficient, am I correct?
Both 770 and 740 are manufactured with 55 nm process. 740 is based on the older chipset design (supports only HT 2.0 and PCIe 1.1) and should be avoided unless your budget is extremely tight. If I buy a new mb, I would choose one that supports the upcoming AM3 processor.

Joseph Clark

11-18-08, 07:27 PM

I've heard HDMI port of 780G chipset gives the same level as the ATI DVI-HDMI adpater does. But IMO the quality of post-processing of IGP is subpar.

Thanks. I was just interested to know if I could the same performance from integrated graphics as a 4xxx Radeon card. I was thinking of building an HTPC for a friend. Separate card it is. :)

Bisclavaret

11-19-08, 09:41 AM

Renethex, I'm sure you've heard this a million times, but THANK YOU for this thread and for your research. If I ever meet you in person, I'll buy you your drink of choice for the evening.

According to your handy chart, you list the playback of DVD on a G45 and on a 4670 as "excellent". I know the 4670 is the best for bang-for-the-buck on playback on an HTPC. For DVD playback, Do you feel the difference between a G45 and 4670 is noticeable at all? My HTPC is going to be for ripped DVD playback only (no Blu-ray or DVR, I'm just sick of playing the guessing game of where my kids hid the DVD and if it's too scratched to play back), and my theory is if I'm going to do this, I want to do it once and right (and without spending an unnecessary dollar). Playback is on a Samsung 720p DLP through HDMI, using opitcal out from TV to AVR.

Joseph Clark

11-19-08, 09:52 AM

I suspect the original Renethx has been cloned. It's the only explanation for the enormous amount of work that he puts into this thread. Talk about the spirit of giving that is the hallmark of AVS - Renethx is one of the best examples of that I've ever seen.

Seriously, dude, we'd all understand if you wanted to get a couple of minutes of sleep. :)

renethx

11-19-08, 10:00 AM

According to your handy chart, you list the playback of DVD on a G45 and on a 4670 as "excellent". I know the 4670 is the best for bang-for-the-buck on playback on an HTPC. For DVD playback, Do you feel the difference between a G45 and 4670 is noticeable at all? My HTPC is going to be for ripped DVD playback only (no Blu-ray or DVR, I'm just sick of playing the guessing game of where my kids hid the DVD and if it's too scratched to play back), and my theory is if I'm going to do this, I want to do it once and right (and without spending an unnecessary dollar). Playback is on a Samsung 720p DLP through HDMI, using opitcal out from TV to AVR.
Both (and GeForce 9300) are very good in DVD playback. But 4670 outperforms G45 and GeForce 9300 in detail enhancement and noise reduction easily. If you want the best PQ in DVD, you should go with HD 4670.

stevenash

11-19-08, 12:12 PM

i need a little help, this is my first attempt to build a PC -- does this look reasonable?

disclaimer: i'm in Canada and looking to get everything on-line (my choices are more limited than my neighbours' to the south)

desired capabilities (ATX):
- record HDTV/SDTV
- play HD content from HDD only
- mid-level gaming possibilities
- reasonably future-proof
- reasonably quiet and energy efficient
- both video and audio go directly to a 50" panny plasma (in future i'd like to add an audio receiver/surround system)

software: Vista Ultimate 64bit; MediaPortal

proposed system (from rene's recomends):
CPU: Phenom X4 9950 Black Edition HD995ZXAGHBOX 2.6GHz
CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90
Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-DS4H AMD 790GX chipset
GPU: HIS H4670 QT512P Radeon HD 4670
Case: future (will use a crappy spare for now)

help (stuff i can't find online here, what's comparable?):
Memory: [A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit]
PSU: [Enermax MODU82+ 525W EMD525AWT]

some advice please?
HDD: recommendation for a small, quiet, fast drive for the O/S only?
DVD RW: i use a PS3 as a BD and SD player, don't burn too much stuff, looking for a quality DVD RW for data purposes
TV Tuner: AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe is recommended, can anyone with some expertise comment/suggest (want to watch/capture OTA HD as well as analog cable -- possibly digital cable in future)

jcato

11-19-08, 12:18 PM

Hogweed75

11-19-08, 01:26 PM

PhoenixDown

11-19-08, 02:50 PM

Here are a couple of common tools (thanks to OCZ Ram for the handy links to them). I personally don't use stress test unless I think there's an issue or I am overclocking but thats just me.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/be_pagegen.php?id=tools

CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php) -- From CPUID (http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php), this tool is the standard for displaying system information.
Everest (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/staff/tony/tools/everestultimate420.exe) -- From Lavalys (http://www.lavalys.com/products/overview.php?pid=3&ps=UE&lang=en), this is a system benchmarking tool.
MemSet (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/staff/tony/tools/MemSet35beta.exe) -- From Tweakers.fr (http://www.tweakers.fr/), this tool allows you to change memory timings under Windows.
Memtest86 (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/staff/tony/tools/memtest86+-2.01.iso.zip) -- From Memtest (http://www.memtest.org/), this is a memory diagnostic tool.
OCCT Perestroika (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/staff/tony/tools/OCCTPT2.0.0a.zip) -- From OCBase (http://www.ocbase.com/perestroika_en/index.php), this is a CPU stability testing tool.
Prime95 (http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/staff/tony/tools/p95v256.zip) -- From GIMPS (http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm), this is a system stability testing tool.
PCMark Vantage (http://www.futuremark.com/download/pcmarkvantage/) -- From FutureMark (http://www.futuremark.com/download/pcmarkvantage/), this is a system benchmark.

Cobrajet428

11-19-08, 03:01 PM

Thanks Jon, for the info on GB-PVR. I assume the programming updates are easy to do off the internet. I have FIOS so I will need to somehow use the IR off the tuner to change the stations so that clear QAM can come through and then via HDMI to the LCD projector.

How do are you set up to change stations?
How hard/long was it for you to figure out how to set up the codecs for powerdvd?

I agree with you about it being an active community. I was looking at their site and there is a lot of ongoing development. The best ideas come out of so many working on one product.
Steve

Steve,

Yes, the GB-PVR program and the plug-ins are available to download via any browser. To answer your questions:

1) I use it to record over-the-air ATSC broadcasts, so channel changing is direct through my tuner card. GB-PVR does support a variety of "IR dongles" which allow it to control various external tuners through that method.

2) Setting it up for various codecs and display methods is pretty easy. There's a program specifically for setup where you can select from pulldown lists from the options present in your system. In my case, having installed PowerDVD7 prior to GBPVR (I highly suggest installing all this kind of stuff BEFORE GBPVR) then its codecs showed up on the pulldown lists. It takes a little experimentation to get everything to work right as there are many options, but poking around in the forums can help a lot. In the case of the PowerDVD stuff it wasn't hard as it shows up prefixed with PowerDVD which I knew I needed to use or otherwise hardware accel for playback wouldn't likely be present.

Jon

Cobrajet428

11-19-08, 03:06 PM

Interesting questions! I'd like to know any helpful information too. I'll be putting my first together this weekend. Virgin!

I agree - I've just installed an HIS HD4670 card and am looking forward to better SD video but it's pretty confusing as to how best to set the various enhancement (noise filter/de-interlace/anti-aliasing/sharpening) settings.

Renethx - do you have any recommendations from all your testing? Do I need to get a hold of the PQ test disc in order to properly set things up, or just need a good set of eyes?

Thanks,
Jon

chaoconnor

11-19-08, 03:47 PM

Both (and GeForce 9300) are very good in DVD playback. But 4670 outperforms G45 and GeForce 9300 in detail enhancement and noise reduction easily. If you want the best PQ in DVD, you should go with HD 4670.

Question: Is there any real advantage to going w/ a 1 Gig 4670 vs the 512 version? I see the 512 versions come w/ HDMI native, but the 1 gig don't. Wondering whta the benefits would be vs the trade-off of losing native HDMI. Thank you!

vdiesel

11-19-08, 04:55 PM

Anyone know if TV Pack 2008 has a higher system requirement than plain Vista? I recently went from Vista Ultimate 32-bit to Vista Ultimate 64-bit w/ TV Pack 2008 and noticed Media Center lags a lot now, even though the CPU was upgraded from AMD X2 1.9GHz (65-watt) to 2.3GHz (45-watt), and video card was upgraded from 8500GT to Radeon 4670.

And speaking of video cards, I noticed the SD picture quality on Radeon 4670 is vastly inferior to 8500GT (though the HD quality of the Radeon appears much improved over the 8500GT). Also, the 4670 can't seem to handle deinterlacing properly compared to the 8500GT. I tried different deinterlacing settings, and even auto, and the image quality is still pretty horrible. All other settings are default. Any ideas what else I can try?

I am also wondering if I have a defective Radeon 4670 that is causing both of the problems above. I occasionally get blue screens with the Radeon when trying to shut down, in addition to the slow system performance in WMC mentioned above. I didn't have these issues with the old setup with the 8500GT.

ndabunka

11-19-08, 08:26 PM

Renethx thanks for your reply. The problem is fixed. My experience may be helpful for people who want to build a HTPC.

The configuration of my HTPC is now as follow:

Motherboard: Asus P5Q-EM (Intel G45)
CPU: Intel Core2 E8400 3.0GHz
Ram: Kingston 4G
Display Card: ICON Force30 ATI 4850 (I replace it)
Case: Silverstone GD01B-R
Digital TV Card: ComproDTV TH-805
Optical Driver 1: LG GGC-H20L (Blu-ray / HD-DVD)
Optical Driver 2: LG DVD Writer
Display: Sharp 42" LCD TV

OS: Windows XP Professional
AV Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR605
HDMI Cable: Denon HDMI Ver1.3a

With this configuration, I can watch digital TV encoded in H.264 (1080i) and Blu-ray in Corel WinDVD 9 Plus SMOOTHLY.

Cyberlink BD Advisor said that the driver for my display card is not up-to-date despite I am already using ATI Catalyst 8.2 (anyway the version is much higher than the requirement) and therefore I could not play Blu-ray Disc in PowerDVD. I guess there is something wrong with the Cyberlink BD Advisor. The BD movie (1080p) plays excellently in WinDVD 9 Plus.

My advise is ... Don't use Intel G45. It is not powerful enough (I guess it's due to the driver problem) to play Blu-ray. Second, don't use PowerDVD. It seems that its requirement for using it is too high to be reached by the system like mine. Third, not all display card support HDMI Ver. 1.3. Check the configuration carefully before you buy.

Hope my experience help

FYI - PowerDvD is not the issue. I run the OEM version of it (v7.3) on a SINGLE core Athlon 3200+ and have no problems with BluRay playback @ 1080p with either 60Hz or the 24Hz options (two separate outputs, 1080p LCD and a Front Projector respectively). The ONLY thing I do differently is that I run a low-cost dedicated GPU card (The ATI 3650 with 512MB or DDR2 RAM). So, if your willing to spend $30 on a video card, you don't need to upgrade the processor at all.

My average processor utilization while running Golden Compass on Blu-Ray is 54%

renethx

11-20-08, 02:05 AM

some advice please?
HDD: recommendation for a small, quiet, fast drive for the O/S only?
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS/WD3000GLFS is the fastest desktop HDD (maybe overkill).

renethx

11-20-08, 02:28 AM

So, I've got all my components and I've built the machine. What do you guys do next? Do you run various "stress tester" programs? Which ones? Or do you just install the OS and move on?

Are there any recommended guides for post-build steps? Or for optimizing Vista for HTPC/gaming? Or for installing software/codecs for an HTPC?
It depends what you want to do. In general stress test is unnecessary. Install Vista and application players/codecs necessary to play back your contents (depending on the contents you play). Launch Vista Media Center and see what you can do. Install plug-ins such as My Movies if you like. If VMC does not work as you intend, search in this form for a solution.

renethx

11-20-08, 02:51 AM

Question: Is there any real advantage to going w/ a 1 Gig 4670 vs the 512 version? I see the 512 versions come w/ HDMI native, but the 1 gig don't. Wondering whta the benefits would be vs the trade-off of losing native HDMI. Thank you!
1GB is possilby good for gaming. 512MB is enough otherwise.

renethx

11-20-08, 02:56 AM

And speaking of video cards, I noticed the SD picture quality on Radeon 4670 is vastly inferior to 8500GT (though the HD quality of the Radeon appears much improved over the 8500GT). Also, the 4670 can't seem to handle deinterlacing properly compared to the 8500GT. I tried different deinterlacing settings, and even auto, and the image quality is still pretty horrible. All other settings are default. Any ideas what else I can try?

I am also wondering if I have a defective Radeon 4670 that is causing both of the problems above. I occasionally get blue screens with the Radeon when trying to shut down, in addition to the slow system performance in WMC mentioned above.
In my test HD 4670 has more post-processing power than GeForce 8500 GT. Which player/codec do you use? Did you add UseBT601CSC=1 in the registry?

vdiesel

11-20-08, 04:45 AM

In my test HD 4670 has more post-processing power than GeForce 8500 GT. Which player/codec do you use? Did you add UseBT601CSC=1 in the registry?

I don't use any special players/codecs, just what's in WMC. I use a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-150 MCE for analog recordings through cable, and use the default drivers in Windows and did not install any other software for it. I noticed that when I put my 8500GT back into the system that the menu/transition lag in Media Center is much improved. I wonder if perhaps the Radeon was indeed defective. It's going back either ways, I will have to try your suggestion when I have more time and get a replacement for the Radeon.

Thanks.

vdiesel

11-20-08, 06:05 AM

I want to record more HD TV shows on my DIY HTPC. So what's the latest news with CableCard in our HD HTPCs? The most current info I see is that we still can't just include a Digital Tuner and plug in a CableCard in our DIY HTPCs, we'd have to buy an OEM from say Dell or some other certified company because of the specialized BIOS and COA/licenses for WMC. What are our alternatives if we want to record digital TV shows like on Sci-Fi Channel? Are FiOS/Uverse/Satellite in the same boat? Are we still screwed for now?

sjorma

11-20-08, 07:49 AM

This doesn't actually concern me as an European but this question seems to come up frequently and as I just yesterday happened to read about this (I suppose, not sure), have a look on these:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2334663,00.asp
5. Show and record high-def TV shows without an antenna
One of Windows Media Center's celebrated features is that it can record high-definition TV shows broadcast over the air: All you need is an ATSC (digital) tuner for your PC and an antenna. However, the latter can be problematic if you live in an area that has weak digital signals—and who wants to look at an ugly set of rabbit ears anyway?

Fortunately, it's now possible to watch and record local networks' HD broadcasts without an antenna. What you need is a tuner that supports QAM, meaning it can receive unencrypted digital channels via cable without a cable box. (Obviously you need to be a cable subscriber for this to work.) Most of the latest tuners from AverMedia, Hauppauge, and Pinnacle support QAM signals. However, Windows Media Center doesn't, at least not in its current incarnation, so look for a tuner that offers QAM integration with WMC. (The AverMedia AVerTV Hybrid Volar Max and SiliconDust HDHomeRun are among those that do.)

Regards Sjorma

I want to record more HD TV shows on my DIY HTPC. So what's the latest news with CableCard in our HD HTPCs? The most current info I see is that we still can't just include a Digital Tuner and plug in a CableCard in our DIY HTPCs, we'd have to buy an OEM from say Dell or some other certified company because of the specialized BIOS and COA/licenses for WMC. What are our alternatives if we want to record digital TV shows like on Sci-Fi Channel? Are FiOS/Uverse/Satellite in the same boat? Are we still screwed for now?

Hogweed75

11-20-08, 09:53 AM

chaoconnor

11-20-08, 10:25 AM

I've been looking into the QAM tuners lately myself for off-cable recording. I'm new to this so as I looked into it I'm trying to figure out how to get rid of my DVR and use my new HTPC for it.

My question is on the extra subscription channels that I pay for like HBO standard and HD, Starz HD, etc. Can I record these straight to the HTPC with a QAM card like a hauppauge card or do I need to wait for some kind of cable-card PC card to come on the market? What are the limitations on cable? What's the best card to get?

I am fairly certain you'll need a device like the Hauppauge 1212 HD-PVR to do that. the QAM cards won't work for encrypted channels, so you'll have to loop it through the component HD-PVR and such. At least that's how I understand it, I'm trying to do the same thing (ergo ditch the DVR from Comcast and use my own.)

Hogweed75

11-20-08, 12:30 PM

EVGA 113-YW-E115-TR LGA

Just received my EVGA 113-YW-E115-TR LGA. Yeah!!!
I kept looking out the office window for UPS for the last hour.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...113-YW-E115-TR

I'm busy tonight but now I definitely have plans for Friday night and Saturday! It looks just beeeeuuutiifullllll!!! I may need a cigarette soon. Wait...I don't smoke!

P.S. Still don't see the Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H in the US yet.

Here's the new build:
EVGA 113-YW-E115-TR LGA
Intel E7200 2.53 GHz Processor
CORSAIR TWIN2X4096-6400C5 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 DDR2 800
Thermaltake Bach Media Lab Case - VB8000BNS
nMEDIAPC PRO-LCD Media Center Programmable LCD (custom install)
Logitech Harmony 720 Universal Remote Control
LG GGW-H20LK Duo Blu-ray/HD-DVD-ROM Blu-ray Burner
250GB Hard Drive Western Digital Drive - Initial Program Drive
(2) Seagate 1TB Hard Drives ST31000340AS (Possible RAID1?)
COOLMAX CUG-700B 700W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V Power Supply
Adesso WKB-3000UB Wireless Mini Keyboard
ZALMAN CNPS9500 AT CPU Cooling Fan/Heatsink
Thermaltake CL-C0034 Copper Fan & Heatsink (Northbridge Cooling)
MS Vista Home Ultimate SP1 32/64-bit. I think I'll try 64 Bit first.

BrazilianBro

11-20-08, 12:41 PM

wow...sucha a good topic, many useful information, but I was quite confused with so many options...

would you (anyone) mind to list some parts to build a 500/600 dollars htpc?! I'm planning to use it to watch dvds, avi, mpeg, wmv and mkv files...

proufo

11-20-08, 01:45 PM

Both (and GeForce 9300) are very good in DVD playback. But 4670 outperforms G45 and GeForce 9300 in detail enhancement and noise reduction easily. If you want the best PQ in DVD, you should go with HD 4670.Hello, renethx.

Any tips on a particular brand and model?

Looking for a silent unit. I understand there are no fanless models of the 4670.

Thanks in advance.

Heckler

11-20-08, 03:10 PM

Need some suggestions/recommendations on the following final HTPC components. Since I'm planning to put it in my living room, so noise (or rather, lack thereof) is a key desire:

1) Video Card -- I would like to have a fanless model that preferably has a direct HDMI output w/audio (7.1 audio from ATI nice too, though will on-MoBo 5.1 be disabled?). Since the case's 1920x1080 touchscreen (OrigenAE S16T) will be fed by a loopback of the analog VGA output, there is whole additional question of how cloning of the screens would work on HDCP content (do you set the HDMI as primary and touchscreen will be available for navigation but go dark when viewing protected content?) and if that argues for either ATI or nVidia. I have read renethx's recommendations about the ATI 4670 and would love to have it, but I can't find a fanless version.

I have found and am considering the following fanless options:

MSI 9500GT (http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=N9500GT-MD512Z&class=vga) ~$63.00
Gigabyte HD4550 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125250) ~$58.00
HIS HD4650 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161253) ~$90.00

I wish the 4650 had a HDMI/VGA/DVI setup like both the 9500GT and 4550 do as I really like the idea of the heatpipes to carry the heat around to the back side of the card. It allows you to keep from losing access to another PCIe slot and puts the heat on the side where the case fan(s) can exhaust it. The downside I see is that it reduces available space for the CPU cooler and depending on your MoBo, could interfere with your Northbridge and/or RAM. I know that the cooler on the 4650 is from Zalman, do we have any idea who makes the one found on the 9500GT or this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102720) from an older 3850 or even others still?? If I could find the cooler from the 9500GT (the Zalman is kinda big and longer than many of the cards it is put on, I've read several reviews where the user states that they had to cut/shorten some of the fins), I would consider putting it on this ASUS 4670 but then some have apparently been running it without the fan...

2) Blu-Ray Drive -- I need a BD-ROM that is also a DVD+-RW (since the S16T only has one 5.25" optical drive slot). If it could do Blu-burn and/or HD-DVD, that would be fine, but since I don't have ANY Blu/HD media, I don't care. Again, lack of LACK OF NOISE is key. I've found:

LG GGC-H20LK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136154) ~$150.00
Pioneer BDC-2202B (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129016) ~$150.00
Lite-On iHES106-29 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106270) ~$130.00
Pioneer BDC-202BK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129015) ~$150.00
Sony BC-5100S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827118020) ~$130.00
ASUS BC-1205PT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827135158) ~$150.00
Blu-Burners:
LG GGW-H20L (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136155) ~$225.00
Lite-On DH-4B1S-08 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827248014) ~$240.00
Lite-On DH-4B1S-13-VAC (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106254) ~$200.00

3) Hard Drives -- I was planning to have two smaller (~250GB each) drives in a RAID 1 mirror for the OS and then three large drives (~750GB->1TB) in a RAID 5 for recordings/content (though a RAID 1 stripe could also work if I wasn't as concerned about losing all content should one of the three drives fail). I was planning to use the on-board RAID controller from the MoBo as I don't really need the additional performance provided by a RAID card (nor do I really want to sacrifice a PCIe slot for it). I will probably have between 3 and 5 total HD tuners and up to four extenders (though seldom will more than two tuners and two extenders being used simultaneously). Do we think the on-board RAID can handle this? Given my TiVo history, I was considering Seagate DB35 or some combination of WD AV-GP/AV/GP drives, keeping in mind the need for silence with five HDs inside:

Seagate DB35.4 250GB (http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/consumer_electronics/db35_series/db35_series_7200.4/) ~$45/each
Seagate DB35.3 750GB (http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=DB35_Series_7200.3_Serial_ATA_750_GB-8&vgnextoid=c7ae7ea70fafd010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&vgnextchannel=85d4b1774aafd010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD&reqPage=Model) ~$100/each
WD AV-GP 500GB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=390&language=en) ~$60/each
WD AV-GP 750GB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=389&language=en) ~$96/each
WD AV-GP 1TB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=388&language=en) ~$122/each
WD AV (8MB) 250GB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=284&language=en) ~$49/each
WD AV (8MB) 320GB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=281&language=en) ~$54/each
WD AV (8MB) 500GB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=280&language=en) ~$62/each
WD GP 500GB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=338&language=en) ~$60/each
WD GP 1TB (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=336&language=en) ~$100/each

4) Heatsink for Processor -- Since the S16T case has two 80mm exhaust fans, I was planning to choose the best fanless heatsink that will fit from silentpcreview.com's reviews (I think the top-rated Thermalright HR-01 Plus might fit as the case is large enough for the touchscreen and I think has the needed height, but still need to measure once the stock fanned cooler is removed as it might be too tight with the PSU)...

All opinions welcome, Thanks!

Axel

11-20-08, 04:41 PM

Hello, renethx.

Any tips on a particular brand and model?

Looking for a silent unit. I understand there are no fanless models of the 4670.

Thanks in advance.

Just a thought.... I was initially looking for a passively cooled card (e.g. 4550), but ultimately decided to go with a 4670 HIS instead.
This was for 2 reasons:
+ better deinterlacing capabilities for SD material and
+ the 'Zalman' fan helps pushing out heat out of the case while it is almost silent
____
Axel

Smitty2k1

11-20-08, 06:16 PM

3) Hard Drives -- I was planning to have two smaller (~250GB each) drives in a RAID 1 mirror for the OS and then three large drives (~750GB->1TB) in a RAID 5 for recordings/content (though a RAID 1 stripe could also work if I wasn't as concerned about losing all content should one of the three drives fail). I was planning to use the on-board RAID controller from the MoBo as I don't really need the additional performance provided by a RAID card (nor do I really want to sacrifice a PCIe slot for it). I will probably have between 3 and 5 total HD tuners and up to four extenders (though seldom will more than two tuners and two extenders being used simultaneously). Do we think the on-board RAID can handle this? Given my TiVo history, I was considering Seagate DB35 or some combination of WD AV-GP/AV/GP drives, keeping in mind the need for silence with five HDs inside:

Raid 1 for your OS drive is a bad idea. It is slow. Consider going raid 0 for speed. Also know if you do that you will have a 500gb C:/ that will probably be 90% free (wasted) space. The data mirroing on the windows drive is useless. If it crashes and you lose all your data, who cares? Simply re-install windows. You want data protection on your data drives not the OS drive. Alternatively a single 2.5 (laptop sized) hard drive will probably be fast enough and quiet.

Raid 5 for your data hard drives is a good idea. A lot of folks will tell you to get a raid card in case your motherboard fails and is no longer being manufactured, in which case you will probably lose all of your data. They are expensive, which is why I go with a JBOD setup (Just a bunch of drives).

Hope this helps

renethx

11-20-08, 07:03 PM

Any tips on a particular brand and model?

Looking for a silent unit. I understand there are no fanless models of the 4670.
I prefer HIS H467QS512P or H467QT512P (overclocked version), one of the best coolers I have seen.

Heckler

11-20-08, 07:14 PM

Raid 1 for your OS drive is a bad idea. It is slow. Consider going raid 0 for speed. Also know if you do that you will have a 500gb C:/ that will probably be 90% free (wasted) space. The data mirroing on the windows drive is useless. If it crashes and you lose all your data, who cares? Simply re-install windows. You want data protection on your data drives not the OS drive. Alternatively a single 2.5 (laptop sized) hard drive will probably be fast enough and quiet.

Raid 5 for your data hard drives is a good idea. A lot of folks will tell you to get a raid card in case your motherboard fails and is no longer being manufactured, in which case you will probably lose all of your data. They are expensive, which is why I go with a JBOD setup (Just a bunch of drives).

Hope this helps

While I normally would agree with your "just re-install Windows" for the OS drive, the added detail is that I'm planning to make a CableCARD (and hopefully future DirecTV HDPC-20)-compliant setup and with the former (and presumably the later), if you lose the OS, you lose access to all of your protected content recordings as well... RAID 1 mirroring shouldn't be appreciably slower than a single drive, though it's not going to be as fast as a RAID 0 stripe would be on the same drives. I wasn't planning to use 500GB drives for this OS mirror, more like 250GB (you don't really save any more $$ as you go smaller than 250GB). The 2.5" is an interesting idea, but they don't usually have as good of seek times, require adapters for use in 3.5" bays and cabling found internal to a desktop PC, and are usually a higher $/GB that makes the ~250GB 3.5" seem better...

Most of the PCIe RAID cards I've found are either uber-expensive or from small enough companies that I would consider it even more unlikely that THEY will be around if the card dies (I figure I should be able to find the MoBo on eBay if needed, and I've got a NAS and proper backups for super-critical things). I assume you do JBOD in software within Windows as most BIOS RAID controllers I've seen don't do JBOD?

Any opinions on the merits of particular drive makes/models from a silence perspective? I've been happy with the DB35's that I've used in TiVos but they might be overkill for HTPC purposes...?

!!Thanks for your feedback!!

renethx

11-20-08, 07:57 PM

1) Video Card -- Since the case's 1920x1080 touchscreen (OrigenAE S16T) will be fed by a loopback of the analog VGA output, there is whole additional question of how cloning of the screens would work on HDCP content (do you set the HDMI as primary and touchscreen will be available for navigation but go dark when viewing protected content?)

3) Hard Drives -- I was planning to have two smaller (~250GB each) drives in a RAID 1 mirror for the OS and then three large drives (~750GB->1TB) in a RAID 5 for recordings/content (though a RAID 1 stripe could also work if I wasn't as concerned about losing all content should one of the three drives fail).

4) Heatsink for Processor -- Since the S16T case has two 80mm exhaust fans, I was planning to choose the best fanless heatsink that will fit from silentpcreview.com's reviews (I think the top-rated Thermalright HR-01 Plus might fit as the case is large enough for the touchscreen and I think has the needed height, but still need to measure once the stock fanned cooler is removed as it might be too tight with the PSU)...

1) Video card: You have to use AnyDVD to play back BD movies in clone mode. But even in this case, the second screen is completely black. Navigation is still available in the second screen.

3) IMO RAID 1 mirror for the OS is useless.

4) HR-01 Plus is about 20mm taller than the case. Scythe Ninja Mini is perhaps the best option for fanless cooling.

Joseph Clark

11-20-08, 08:39 PM

1)
IMO RAID 1 mirror for the OS is useless.

Agreed - a waste of money. Get Acronis TrueImage and make a backup of your hard drive when you get everything the way you want it. From there, there are 2 ways to get back up and running in less than half an hour:

1. Create a backup image of C: on an external USB drive (or on any drive in the system except a Dynamic disk) and an emergency boot CD. Boot from the CD and tell Acronis to rebuild your corrupt drive (or replacement drive).
2. Create an Acronis Secure Zone partition and then create an image of your C: drive. If Windows becomes corrupt (but the C: drive is still good), hit F11 while booting and Acronis will spend a few minutes rebuilding the drive.

The Acronis Secure Zone partition is invisible to Windows so you can't screw it up by mistake.

This is a great way to get back up and running in Windows really fast, especially if you've spent lots of time tweaking your system to get it to play everything just the way you want. We all know how codecs can bork a system. Acronis has saved me from days of frustrating work.

Kaal

11-20-08, 09:25 PM

Looking for a silent unit. I understand there are no fanless models of the 4670.

Pablo - quite a number of quiet/passive coolers are described in detail at this site:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/

skerich

11-21-08, 03:06 AM

HI

I was just about to give up on getting a tuner card right now for the same reason, no cable card and then I found that there is such a device out there ATI TV Wonder™ Digital Cable Tuner. It uses a cable card so full HDTV is available. But there is a huge BUT, they force you to buy a PC from a major manufacturer who swears they are OUCR compliant instead of just selling the standalone box. The card runs independently from the PC anyway. It doesn't even connect to the ePCI bus. So what makes a PC compliant since it only supplies power through either the floppy drive power or its own stand alone power. It has to be Verizon and Comcast who are selling their own DVRs and they forced cablelabs to keep people from building their own and have to rent their DVR. So they keep it a closed club between themselves and Dell and HP.

The technology and the hardware have been available since Jan 2007 but cablelabs will allow it to be sold directly to anyone which is a BS.

Steve

Not just any PC can connect to this TV Wonder, though. It must meet a stringent set of requirements, including OCUR support in the BIOS and support for HDCP (High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection). The PC must also be running one of the versions of Windows Vista—Home Premium or Ultimate—with built-in Media Center functionality. Media Center support for OCUR must then be activated with a code, much like Windows Vista activation.

Once you have a TV Wonder and an OCUR-ready PC, the final step in setup will be installing the CableCard. AMD says this process involves making a call to the cable company, which will then dispatch a tech who will bring the CableCard to your house, install it, and enter a code to complete a pairing process that enables the device to tune cable TV.

Sadly, the OCUR-compliant PC must come from a major PC manufacturer. AMD says PC makers will have to provide a letter to CableLabs labs certifying that their PCs meet OCUR requirements. As a result, AMD expects to see OCUR-compliant PCs from major PC makers like Dell very soon, but expects smaller PCs vendors and system integrators to be left out. The smallest PC manufacturers on AMD's list of TV Wonder resellers look to be AlienWare, Velocity Micro, and NiveusMedia. Others include larger players like Sony, Toshiba, HP, Dell, and Gateway. PC DIYers will be left out in the cold entirely, and AMD could not say whether this situation might change at some point in the future.

ATI TV Wonder™ Digital Cable Tuner

Watch and record high definition digital cable programs and enjoy a stunning home theater experience on your Digital Cable Ready Windows Vista® PC with the new ATI TV Wonder™ Digital Cable Tuner. Designed to work with Windows Media Center, the ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner is the world’s first PC TV tuner offering CableCARD™ support for receiving premium HD content from digital cable channels such as HBO, ESPN, Cinemax, and many others. In addition to being the first product to bring premium digital cable to the PC, it also supports over-the-air ATSC digital TV, NTSC analog TV, and satellite set-top box connectivity. The ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner is the ultimate solution for adding HD entertainment to Windows Vista PCs!

http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonderdigital/index.html

I also found this great write up on it and how it works with cable cards and how cable cards came to be thanks to the FCC
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=344

proufo

11-21-08, 08:27 AM

I prefer HIS H467QS512P or H467QT512P (overclocked version), one of the best coolers I have seen.

Pablo - quite a number of quiet/passive coolers are described in detail at this site:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/

Just a thought.... I was initially looking for a passively cooled card (e.g. 4550), but ultimately decided to go with a 4670 HIS instead.
This was for 2 reasons:
+ better deinterlacing capabilities for SD material and
+ the 'Zalman' fan helps pushing out heat out of the case while it is almost silent
____
Axel

Thanks to all.

Would I miss something if I use a motherboard with a PCI Express x16 slot, not a PCI Express 2.0 x16?

redtyler1

11-21-08, 10:31 AM

In response to heckler and others looking for a passive model of 4670 or 4650, I would like to give you my experience with these cards. First, I removed both stock coolers; I did not purchase the card recommended above by renethx (the drawback to early adoption). However, I did use a Zalman VF900 and can confirm that the cooler fits on the cards. Coupled with Zalman's fan voltage regulator, or controlled by software, the VGA fan is almost inaudible and the temperatures are cool. Plus, no other heat is put into the case by way of the passive cooler. I think this is a viable option for most, putting the cooler on takes little to no skill it all and is a good option. It does add a bit to the price of the video card however.

Just a thought.

renethx

11-21-08, 10:49 AM

Would I miss something if I use a motherboard with a PCI Express x16 slot, not a PCI Express 2.0 x16?
No, unless you play games. PCIe 2.0 x16 becomes a crucial factor when larger textures need to be accessed as proven in this article (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-2-0,1915-13.html).

ndabunka

11-21-08, 11:33 AM

...this process involves making a call to the cable company, which will then dispatch a tech who will bring the CableCard to your house, install it, and enter a code to complete a pairing process that enables the device to tune cable TV....

So, just buying the right PC from the right manaufacturer in and of itself is not enough? You THEN have to call the (1000% clueless) LOCAL cable company and then (likely) have to PAY them to come out and install the card?

Anyone care to guess how much the Cable company is going to CHARGE us for this "very minimal" service? Of course, they are also going to want you to pay the EXACT same fee for the cable card as you already pay for the set top box thereby retaining their control of the profit resulting from use of a cable card (not it's intented function). Anyone called a local carrier to "request" this service yet? This STINKS more and more.

I tell you man, It's a conspiracy! Fillmore (Cars, 2004)

proufo

11-21-08, 11:34 AM

No, unless you play games. PCIe 2.0 x16 becomes a crucial factor when larger textures need to be accessed as proven in this article (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-2-0,1915-13.html).Many, many thanks, renethx!

I will then upgrade my son's gaming computer and keep his Gigabyte P35 for my HTPC.

redtyler1

11-21-08, 11:40 AM

Hogweed75

11-21-08, 07:54 PM

Here's the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128363&Tpk=GIGABYTE%20GA-E7AUM-DS2H
$134.99

renethx

11-22-08, 01:30 AM

I am considering getting a 9300 board and adding a low profile XFX 9500gt video card. The reason being, I want 7.1 LPCM and top notch SD-DVD upscaling.

My understanding is that by itself, the 9300 is not as good at this as the 4650, 4670 and above, but it is better than 780G, 790GX, and 8200/8300. Is this correct?

Also, my understanding is that the 9500GT provides SD-DVD upconversion on par with the 4650/4670. Is this also correct?

Finally, can i run the video from the graphics card to the display and audio to the AVR for this setup?
The following are screenshots of Detail Enhancement in HQV Benchmark with GeForce 9300, GeForce 9500 GT, HD 4850, and ffdshow with seesaw 8:13 posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14496626#post14496626).

- Driver/settings for GeForce: 180.84/Edge enhancement 50%/Noise reduction 50%
- Driver/settings for Radeon: 8.11/Edge-enhancement 4%/De-noise 10%
- Player/codec: TotalMedia Theater 2.1.6.126 (not good for SD playback, but close to Microsoft MPEG-2 Video Decoder and CyberLink Decoder in this particular test)
- OS: Vista 32-bit

Click each image to see the entire image.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5685/geforce9300sd5tnhf0.png (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2412/geforce9300sd5hv9.jpg) http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/318/geforce9500gtsd5tnrf0.png (http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2295/geforce9500gtsd5ec7.jpg)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4886/hd4850sd5tngn8.png (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7955/hd4850sd5yt3.jpg) http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8316/seesawdetailtnsz6.png (http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6366/seesawdetailqr9.jpg)

GeForce 9300 and GeForce 9500 GT are perfect in deinterlacing and cadence detection, but struggle with detail enhancement and denoise. Radeon HD 4670 or higher is better.

proufo

11-22-08, 03:13 PM

- Player/codec: TotalMedia Theater 2.1.6.126 (not good for SD playback, but close to Microsoft MPEG-2 Video Decoder and CyberLink Decoder in this particular test)Thanks, renethx.

:confused::confused::confused: Aren't these SD videos?

Which player/codec/add-on allows for the best upconversion of SD-DVDs with the 4670?

Thanks in advance.

Hyser

11-22-08, 04:05 PM

This is my first post. I have spent many hours browsing this post.

I would like to have a HTPC "all in one" system capable to:
Record digital HD Cable channels (eliminating a DVR/PVR)
Play 5.1 or 7.1 audio from media cards or USB and provide FM radio stations(eliminating a receiver) Store all my DVD movies(eliminating a stand alone player and the discs)

From what I have read there isn't a digital HD cable card available for a "home brewed" HTPC system. If there is lead me to it.
I would guess it's a crap shoot as to when such a card will be available(allowed).

Is a digital HD TV antenna an option?

Thanks probably isn't said enough to renethx who has taken many hours/days/months to follow and reply to the posters.

Thanks.:)

renethx

11-22-08, 07:08 PM

Thanks, renethx.

:confused::confused::confused: Aren't these SD videos?

Which player/codec/add-on allows for the best upconversion of SD-DVDs with the 4670?
At least TotalMedia Theater is the worst commercial player for SD. Microsoft codec (built in Vista) and CyberLink codec (in PowerDVD) are much better.

BTW ArcSoft will release SimHD (http://www.arcsoft.com/public/search_result.asp?LanguagePre=index.asp%3FLanguagePre%3DEN&searchKey=SimHD) (a DVD upscaling technology through GPU) in December: AMD Set to Release Free Software Giving Millions of ATI Radeon™ Owners New Way to Run Demanding Computing Tasks Faster than Ever (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~128994,00.html)

A growing number of ISVs are also lining up to provide ATI Stream-enabled applications, including ArcSoft, a leading provider of innovative digital imaging technologies and multimedia solutions. The company plans to provide an update in December to its TotalMedia Theatre application that will includes ArcSoft SimHD™, a new type of post processing technology that allows consumers to experience close-to-HD viewing of standard definition content thanks to ATI Stream.

Here is a picture of the demo presented at At CEATEC JAPAN 2008 (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0930/ceatec01.htm). The left-hand side is SimHD off and the right-hand side is SimHD on.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121007&stc=1&d=1222765714

sneals2000

11-22-08, 08:34 PM

OK - advice gratefully received for an upgrade path to improve SD performance and provide multichannel PCM audio via HDMI.

Currently running an AMD-based 780G motherboard (Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H) with HD3200 graphics and a 4850e CPU. Watch a mix of 50i DVDs, 50i SD TV, 24p and 60i Blu-rays and 50i H264 HDTV broadcasts - SD stuff viewed mainly in Vista Media Center, though also have PowerDVD and Total Media Theater available for Blu-ray (used to use PowerDVD - recently switched to Total Media Theater because the UI is better in MCE mode - though have had some 24p audio issues). Use MyMovies for DVD/Blu-ray management.

Currently SD performance is sort of OK but notgreat and HDMI audio is SPDIF-limited quality. I have got proper black and white levels finally sorted on both SD and HD video and in Windows though... (For a while my SD MPEG2 stuff had set-up greyish blacks and dull whites as a result of incorrect 16-235 level handling, making SD viewing annoying)

Now I appear to have the following options :

1. Install a 4350 / 4550 card. Should get improved HDMI multichannel audio - but the SD and HD performance (de-interlacing 1080/50i is important to me as well as 576/50i) is not stellar? (Will SD improve with SimHD though?) Advantage is that these are available in passive variants - fan noise is important to me.

2. Install a 4650 ? Better SD performance? HDMI multichannel PCM audio. Fan noise an issue - are there passive models - will they over heat in an Antec 430 case? Better Sim HD performance when that comes along?

3. Install a 4670 ? Is this massively better than a 4650? Are there a good range of passive models?

4. Replace my motherboard and CPU with an nVidia 9300/9400 IGP based motherboard and an Intel Core Duo or Core 2 Duo CPU? (Does nVidia stuff consistently handle SD and HD video levels better than ATI stuff used to?)

In all cases I'd really like HDMI native connections rather than DVI+Dongle. (I know HDMI audio can be carried via DVI - but have heard suggestions that some DVI+Dongle solutions don't always output 16-235 RGB or YCrCb and instead output 0-255 RGB - which won't work in my set-up which is switching other 16-235 sources via an AVR into a single HDMI input on my TV)

Option 4. is much more expensive - but I could probably re-use the existing motherboard elsewhere.

Is the difference between a IGP 3200 and 4350/4550 in video terms a significant improvement (over and above the audio win?) Is a 9300/9400 significantly better than a IGP 3200 - as I'm led to believe? How does the 9300/9400 IGP compare with a 4650/4670 solution?

Finally - 1080/24p output is also important to me for Blu-ray replay on my TV without 3:2 pull-down. Are some solutions better than others for this?

renethx

11-22-08, 09:51 PM

Finally - 1080/24p output is also important to me for Blu-ray replay on my TV without 3:2 pull-down.
GeForce 9300/9400 (and 8200/8300) is the only solution for perfect 24p and 7.1 LPCM right now. Playing BD movies is perfect. HD & SD deinterlacing and cadence detection are perfect too. However SD detail enhancement and HD & SD denoise are weak. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15126202#post15126202).

allston232

11-22-08, 11:57 PM

Mikie

11-23-08, 12:00 AM

Hi all, hoping someone has an idea to help me address a noise issue. I have the AMD, AMD high-end system except with a Segate 1TB drive. The problem is a whistling noise that plays through S/PDIF. The noise is not loud, but it's very noticable when no other sound is playing. It's on & off as if picking up the signal from the hard disk or something. The system is great other than this 1 issue. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Problem SOLVED: Rerouted wires to the front panel audio and hard disk (to separate them) & the problem went away. My HTPC is now very quiet. Learn something new every day :)

IRS

11-23-08, 02:24 AM

Okay, like everyone else I've been reading this thread with great interest. I'm working on an HTPC and I've got a Q6600 to start with. I'm going to be watching MKV files as well as hopefully adding a BluRay drive to it as well. But, that's down the road - the immediate need is the MKV support. I want to run Vista MCE and I'd love to be able to run Eve on the big screen as well (but that's secondary).

Would I be better off with a mobo that has an embedded video for simplicities sake? Or is there a better option for me? I'd like to stay cheap if the embedded video could handle a little Eve. Especially since I'm going to have a pretty stout processor... Opinions? Also, what do I need to add for MCE to be able to play MKVs?

renethx

11-23-08, 04:11 AM

Would I be better off with a mobo that has an embedded video for simplicities sake? Or is there a better option for me? I'd like to stay cheap if the embedded video could handle a little Eve. Especially since I'm going to have a pretty stout processor... Opinions? Also, what do I need to add for MCE to be able to play MKVs?
Perhaps a GeForce 9300 mb is the best choice (such as MSI P7NGM-Digital, ~$110).

Check this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023720).

sneals2000

11-23-08, 06:02 AM

GeForce 9300/9400 (and 8200/8300) is the only solution for perfect 24p and 7.1 LPCM right now. Playing BD movies is perfect. HD & SD deinterlacing and cadence detection are perfect too. However SD detail enhancement and HD & SD denoise are weak. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15126202#post15126202).

Many thanks for the quick reply. Had read the previous post but wasn't sure if it included possible improvements addressed by SimHD (which may be a bit niche - but may also be quite powerful) and also it didn't mention the 16-235 issues that I have heard are still an issue for SD content.

ATI drivers have the BT601CSC registry hack to fix this - but do nVidia's not suffer from it? (The problem is that SD MPEG2 with video levels is not correctly handled and thus black levels for SD video level content differ from those for HD video level and other Windows content)

Also - is it possible to select the output colour space on nVidia cards as it now is on ATIs? (i.e. RGB 4:4:4 Full/PC, RGB 4:4:4 Studio/Limited, YCrCb 4:2:2, YCrCb 4:4:4). Previously my ATI card used to run 4:2:2 YCrCb via HDMI into my 40W4000 TV - which left me with chroma bleed on fine text (which needs to be run at 4:4:4 RGB or YCrCb and not 4:2:2 for full chroma bandwith) - and I need to ensure any card outputs 16-235 Limited not 0-255 Full levels for switching issues. Do nVidia cards allow selection of output format for HDMI, or just level range?

If I decided not to replace the motherboard and went with adding a gfx card to my existing HD 3200 IGP set-up, is there a quiet nVidia model with the same benefits as the 9300/9400 motherboard, or does that cause sound issues (I have read that some separate nVidia cards don't have integrated HD audio and require SPDIF feeds - removing LPCM multichannel from the equation) ?

Finally - for a standard Blu-ray, DVD and SD/HDTV (including H264 HD broadcasts - which is the European HD standard rather than MPEG2) solution - no requirement for HD MKVs etc. - what would be a good CPU match for a 9400 motherboard? Is an E5200 Core Duo too lightweight - do I need to go Core 2 Duo? Trying not to overspec and overheat generate (though I guess modern Core 2 Duos are more power efficient? I like the cool running of my current 4850e/780G HD 3200 combo and would be keen not to make something louder)

Axel

11-23-08, 08:10 AM

Hi all, hoping someone has an idea to help me address a noise issue. I have the AMD, AMD high-end system except with a Segate 1TB drive. The problem is a whistling noise that plays through S/PDIF. The noise is not loud, but it's very noticable when no other sound is playing. It's on & off as if picking up the signal from the hard disk or something. The system is great other than this 1 issue. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Caution - long shot :).

Any chance you could try an optical/Toshlink connection? This assumes you are using a coax right now.

Are you using the onboard sound? Do you plug in directly into the mobo or do you use an extension cable with bracket?

____
Axel

3LitreRS

11-23-08, 08:56 AM

Long time reader in Aust. & first post for a long while! Firstly Renethx thank you for sharing your research, knowledge and expertise... brilliant job!

I have recently purchased a used HTPC for a fairly low price of A$325 with
Origen 15e case (main reason for impulse buying as it is $600+ here)
AMD 3000 single core
X1300 pro AGP card with twin DVI output
M/B is Asus A7N8X-E
XP Pro SP2 incl licence

Should I keep any of this? I mainly liked the case with the 7" touch screen, so maybe I could rebuild and move the 'guts' of this to another PC for the kids and build a proper system for my 60" Sony SXRD (XBR2) full HD TV.

Please help me decide between
a) Basic upgrade to smooth playing HD for minimum $ and keeping guts of it! or
b) Rebuild for best 60" picture and sound quality?

Outcomes:
Stage 1
Improve SD & DVD Pic Quality of the 60" Sony.
Record HD FTA TV programs (current Pioneer 530H PVR is analogue!)
Rip DVD library to disc
Download programs in future (likely 720HD due to file sizes?)
Stage 2
Connect to future HDMI receiver
Make library accessable to another TV or projector in the future

(Note BD playback is not necessary as I have a new PS3 for BD Playback and gaming for the kids.)

Initial Questions
1. Should I consider any solution that can use the AMD 3000 and/or X1300-Pro graphics card for 1080i playback from HDD? I expect not, as I downloaded some test files from microsoft site and they stutter badly using Windows media player in XP SP2. Or what settings should I try?

2. 7" Touch Screen compatability issues?
My Origen 15e has 7" touch screen has 1024 x 768 native resolution, and TV is 1080i/p.
- I think I read somewhere this can be a problem if the TV is different resolution, but I cant find these comments/solutions again. Also any ATI/Nvidia issues here?
- If rebuilding completely I'm leaning towards a mid range suggestion, maybe using the Geforce 9300 MB or HIS 4670 if I go for a seperate graphics card. Will these work with the touch screen without problems?

3.Origen 15e HTPC/Server as one?
- Is a server necessary in addition to the HTPC for output to another TV or say PJ?
- Why cant the HTPC alone supply this or what is needed to avoid having duplication of computers? Is this really a cabling issue due to distance?
- Does the touch screen in the HTPC affect the output options?

4. Hard Wiring or Wireless
I'm also a bit confused about future wiring to other TV or PJ. It would be good to see how a wiring diagram for some of these set ups - ive never seen one posted here. Does any one have one of their set up?
- How do I supply a program to TV or PJ elewhere in the house without a PC at each point?
- Distances vary from next room to upstairs. I can hardwire if perfect wireless transmission of HD is still not possible. What is the current best solution or should I wait?

5. Is the PS3 useful here?
- Related to the server question, how should I intergrate the PS3 into my overall options as I see it offers ethernet and wireless?
It is connected to the Sony 60" and I was planning on locating the HTPC below the TV into the second HDMI.

Please suggest links for further reading if it will save answering some of these noob questions!

Thanks in advance for any comments. I think these are the main issues running around in my mind atm!

renethx

11-23-08, 09:35 AM

Many thanks for the quick reply. Had read the previous post but wasn't sure if it included possible improvements addressed by SimHD (which may be a bit niche - but may also be quite powerful) and also it didn't mention the 16-235 issues that I have heard are still an issue for SD content.

ATI drivers have the BT601CSC registry hack to fix this - but do nVidia's not suffer from it? (The problem is that SD MPEG2 with video levels is not correctly handled and thus black levels for SD video level content differ from those for HD video level and other Windows content)

Also - is it possible to select the output colour space on nVidia cards as it now is on ATIs? (i.e. RGB 4:4:4 Full/PC, RGB 4:4:4 Studio/Limited, YCrCb 4:2:2, YCrCb 4:4:4). Previously my ATI card used to run 4:2:2 YCrCb via HDMI into my 40W4000 TV - which left me with chroma bleed on fine text (which needs to be run at 4:4:4 RGB or YCrCb and not 4:2:2 for full chroma bandwith) - and I need to ensure any card outputs 16-235 Limited not 0-255 Full levels for switching issues. Do nVidia cards allow selection of output format for HDMI, or just level range?
I still need to clarify these problems myself. I will report once I get a satisfactory answer (I will have to do lots of experiments).

If you need multichannel LPCM, NVIDIA discrete card is not your option.

proufo

11-23-08, 10:26 AM

I still need to clarify these problems myself.Oh, darn! renethx is human! :D :D :D

Thanks, renethx for sharing!

sneals2000

11-23-08, 01:25 PM

I still need to clarify these problems myself. I will report once I get a satisfactory answer (I will have to do lots of experiments).

If you need multichannel LPCM, NVIDIA discrete card is not your option.

Thanks for clarification - look forward to hearing the answers. It does look like a 9400 Motherboard is the way forward almost certainly. Would an E5200 be OK for standard hardware accelerated content (no MKVs - just DVD/Blu-ray and SD/HDTV)?

AV8OR

11-23-08, 06:51 PM

Hi all, long time reader...thanks for such a great resource!

I'm build an HTPC and would appreciate some direction -- I purchased components 2.5 years ago and I'm finally getting to the build. Some pieces may need an upgrade. I've read this thread and others in the forum for days and, in the end, it comes down to someone who is more familiar with this material to simply make a call.

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and an Intel DG965WH motherboard. I'll be using a 300W silent PSU in side an mCubed HFX Classic case -- going for total silence, heatpipes & all.

I'll be using the box for watching Blu-Ray movies on the hard drive, likely some transcoding (though not while watching a movie), some firewire recording (using Tim Moore's stuff) and playing some lightweight video games (World of Warcraft, not Crysis).

I'll be using an SPDIF connection from the MB to the amp and let it decode the audio, so no audio card or HDMI audio is necessary.

Q1) Should I sell and upgrade the CPU/MB as they are both still new in box and would be easy to sell on eBay? I'm considering the GA-EP45-UD3P which was mentioned in an earlier post. Not sure how much incremental value I would see...what do you think?

The Intel P45 chipset looks good, however I've also seen talk about the great features of Intel CPU/NVidia chipset. Would that do anything for me relative to the Intel/Intel setup?

Q2) Which video card do you recommend for this purpose? I'll be removing any fan and attaching heat pipes to the case, however it needs to be relatively low power (eg ATI 4870 is clearly overkill). I've seen recommendations for the HIS Hightech H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670...

Thanks in advance for your reply...really looking forward to getting this going...

Cobrajet428

11-23-08, 09:11 PM

I agree - I've just installed an HIS HD4670 card and am looking forward to better SD video but it's pretty confusing as to how best to set the various enhancement (noise filter/de-interlace/anti-aliasing/sharpening) settings.

Renethx - do you have any recommendations from all your testing? Do I need to get a hold of the PQ test disc in order to properly set things up, or just need a good set of eyes?

renethx - I posted this a little while back and it kind of got swept into the sea of posts. I know you get hit with a lot of stuff here, so please forgive me for bringing it up again if you've been too busy to respond. Perhaps instead there's a thread on this topic elsewhere that someone else could point to?

Thanks,
Jon

archibael

11-24-08, 12:02 AM

Hi all, long time reader...thanks for such a great resource!

I'm build an HTPC and would appreciate some direction -- I purchased components 2.5 years ago and I'm finally getting to the build. Some pieces may need an upgrade. I've read this thread and others in the forum for days and, in the end, it comes down to someone who is more familiar with this material to simply make a call.

I have an Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 and an Intel DG965WH motherboard. I'll be using a 300W silent PSU in side an mCubed HFX Classic case -- going for total silence, heatpipes & all.

I'll be using the box for watching Blu-Ray movies on the hard drive, likely some transcoding (though not while watching a movie), some firewire recording (using Tim Moore's stuff) and playing some lightweight video games (World of Warcraft, not Crysis).

You can try the onboard video for that stuff, but I always recommend a discrete card for gaming.

For video, it's not bad. The G45 is way better, but it's two generations later-- that's not shocking. I'm using an almost identical setup (E6700 instead) and while it has its quirks I can play most video without qualms, including a sample piece of the Transformers HD DVD disk I have kept around for checking on my setup whenever I make changes.

The rest of your questions I leave to renethx to answer. He's up on all the latest boards, discrete vs integrated, etc. Just wanted to chime in re: the G965 and its capabilities (or lack thereof).

Hyser

11-24-08, 01:44 AM

Second post after much reading. I guess I'll put the HDTV channel recording on the back burner right now.

I really want to build a media storage system that will work for our 3 HDTV locations in our house. We currently have 300+ DVD's in our collection and many family videos. I would like to transfer them in a quality compressed digital format to hard drives.

I need to know everything:

1. What is needed to build this mid-range system?
2. Do I use my new Samsung plasma as the monitor?
3. What program and format do I use to convert my DVD's and video to that will keep the best quality for compression rate?
4. What do I need to network to the other 3 TV locations?
5. How do I access these files from the 3 TV locations in my house?
6. Would it be wise to use a separate media server for a quieter operation? Read quite a bit about unRAID:)
7. Can I do this for under $1600 for with TB storage?

Thank you

mudwiggle

11-24-08, 06:29 AM

Which is the best OS to use for a HTPC? WinXP or Vista?
Things I'm interested in are;
1). Interface, logical, easy to use/navigate (must be easy for the wife!)
2). Use with remote control (any recommendated RC's for this?)
3). Which OS optimises Hardware Acceleration better? (I'm using a HD 4650)
4). Anything else I've forgotten to think of.....

rmmeli

11-24-08, 08:27 AM

Here's the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128363&Tpk=GIGABYTE%20GA-E7AUM-DS2H
$134.99
No one seemed to react to this board. Does it not replace some of the recommended configurations that renethx has documented?

renethx

11-24-08, 08:51 AM

Initial Questions
1. Should I consider any solution that can use the AMD 3000 and/or X1300-Pro graphics card for 1080i playback from HDD? I expect not, as I downloaded some test files from microsoft site and they stutter badly using Windows media player in XP SP2. Or what settings should I try?

2. 7" Touch Screen compatability issues?
My Origen 15e has 7" touch screen has 1024 x 768 native resolution, and TV is 1080i/p.
- I think I read somewhere this can be a problem if the TV is different resolution, but I cant find these comments/solutions again. Also any ATI/Nvidia issues here?
- If rebuilding completely I'm leaning towards a mid range suggestion, maybe using the Geforce 9300 MB or HIS 4670 if I go for a seperate graphics card. Will these work with the touch screen without problems?

3.Origen 15e HTPC/Server as one?
- Is a server necessary in addition to the HTPC for output to another TV or say PJ?
- Why cant the HTPC alone supply this or what is needed to avoid having duplication of computers? Is this really a cabling issue due to distance?
- Does the touch screen in the HTPC affect the output options?

4. Hard Wiring or Wireless
I'm also a bit confused about future wiring to other TV or PJ. It would be good to see how a wiring diagram for some of these set ups - ive never seen one posted here. Does any one have one of their set up?
- How do I supply a program to TV or PJ elewhere in the house without a PC at each point?
- Distances vary from next room to upstairs. I can hardwire if perfect wireless transmission of HD is still not possible. What is the current best solution or should I wait?

5. Is the PS3 useful here?
- Related to the server question, how should I intergrate the PS3 into my overall options as I see it offers ethernet and wireless?
It is connected to the Sony 60" and I was planning on locating the HTPC below the TV into the second HDMI.
1. IMO only the case and OS are worth keeping. AMD 3000 and X1300-Pro are weak in HD contents.

2. In clone mode the display resolutions must be identical. So only the extended mode is possible in your case. Every recent graphics card supports this mode fine.

3, 4, 5. These questions are beyond my knowledge. You may get an answer if you start a new thread.

renethx

11-24-08, 08:54 AM

Would an E5200 be OK for standard hardware accelerated content (no MKVs - just DVD/Blu-ray and SD/HDTV)?
E5200 is enough for HD playback (usually 30% or less CPU usage) as long as GPU assist works.

renethx

11-24-08, 09:06 AM

Q1) Should I sell and upgrade the CPU/MB as they are both still new in box and would be easy to sell on eBay? I'm considering the GA-EP45-UD3P which was mentioned in an earlier post. Not sure how much incremental value I would see...what do you think?

Q2) Which video card do you recommend for this purpose? I'll be removing any fan and attaching heat pipes to the case, however it needs to be relatively low power (eg ATI 4870 is clearly overkill). I've seen recommendations for the HIS Hightech H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670...

Thanks in advance for your reply...really looking forward to getting this going...
Q1) Basically you don't have to upgrade CPU/MB, although they are not great for transcoding (takes longer time) and games. For video playback, the graphics card is the most important factor.

Q2) HD 4670 is recommended. If you remove the fan anyway, then any 4670 card should be fine. H467QT512P is a bit pricey because of Arctic Cooling fan.

sneals2000

11-24-08, 09:09 AM

Here are some general thoughts - I don't have first-hand experience of all of them - but there are some suggested areas to explore.

3.Origen 15e HTPC/Server as one?
- Is a server necessary in addition to the HTPC for output to another TV or say PJ?
- Why cant the HTPC alone supply this or what is needed to avoid having duplication of computers? Is this really a cabling issue due to distance?
- Does the touch screen in the HTPC affect the output options?

If the TV or PJ are in different rooms I'd suggest either a second HTPC or a Media Center Extender solution.

The extenders work well for Windows Media Center Live/Recorded TV particularly, and if the main HTPC is powerful you can also run Transcode 360 or similar solutions to get stuff that isn't native MPEG2/WMV to play on them.

You can run your HTPC as a server for other HTPCs if you wish - in fact for Media Center Extender use your main HTPC has to have the tuners in it - though I believe you can record Recorded TV onto a Windows Share (so could have a server for storage elsewhere to keep the heat/noise/bulk down on your HTPC).

Yes - I think that triple video output solutions that work reliably are quite rare (Main TV, Touch Screen, Second TV/PJ would be three outputs) Sending HD content via long cable runs as HDMI or Component isn't great - and you may find controlling both outputs at the same time really tricky to manage (two remote controls controlling two video outputs etc.)

4. Hard Wiring or Wireless
I'm also a bit confused about future wiring to other TV or PJ. It would be good to see how a wiring diagram for some of these set ups - ive never seen one posted here. Does any one have one of their set up?
- How do I supply a program to TV or PJ elewhere in the house without a PC at each point?

If you are running your main HTPC as a Media Center set-up (with XP MCE or Vista Media Center) then Media Center Extenders (XBox 360 is cheap but noisy, Linksys 2100/2200 are smaller and much quieter) are a possible solution - though DVD replay on them is a bit tricky to sort.

Cabled Ethernet is the best way of feeding these - though Ethernet over Power cabling 200Mbs solutions can work if you have good wiring that supports high data rates. WiFi is not a great solution for streaming video - particularly HD stuff.

- Distances vary from next room to upstairs. I can hardwire if perfect wireless transmission of HD is still not possible. What is the current best solution or should I wait?

For data streaming - Ethernet (if you put in good quality cabling you'll be able to upgrade to Gigabit at some point if that is useful?)

5. Is the PS3 useful here?
- Related to the server question, how should I intergrate the PS3 into my overall options as I see it offers ethernet and wireless?
It is connected to the Sony 60" and I was planning on locating the HTPC below the TV into the second HDMI.

PS3 could be useful for UPnP file streaming (again would always suggest cabled ethernet for video) - and if you are in Aus then the PlayTV dual DVB-T tuner may be worth a look as a standalone PVR solution for SD and HD OTA digital TV.

The PS3 isn't really a solution for tight integration into an HTPC set-up - but is useful for occasional stuff.

For info - I currently have a home-built HTPC connected to my TV. This has a DVB-S2 satellite card and a dual DVB-T OTA terrestrial card, running Vista. This accesses a home-built unRAID server via Gigabit Ethernet for MyMovies DVD storage purposes. I can use an XBox 360 to view SD MPEG2 stuff elsewhere - via Ethernet - but don't have full DVD replay functionality on this. If I use a second HTPC then I can get full DVD replay from the unRAID server, but would need local tuners for Live TV (though recorded TV may be possible from a server share) as you can't stream Live TV between HTPCs within Media Center (though you can with extenders)

Annoyingly Windows Media Center can't run in extender mode (yet) - the "SoftSled" solution that allowed it has never been released. Other solutions like SageTV do allow it.

renethx

11-24-08, 09:15 AM

renethx - I posted this a little while back and it kind of got swept into the sea of posts. I know you get hit with a lot of stuff here, so please forgive me for bringing it up again if you've been too busy to respond. Perhaps instead there's a thread on this topic elsewhere that someone else could point to?
Beyond basic monitor calibration and the standard registry tweaking for Radeon cards (UseBT601CSC=1), there are no best settings for noise filter/de-interlace/anti-aliasing/sharpening that satisfy everybody. Eventually PQ of SD contents is a subjective matter.

Bonex

11-24-08, 09:53 AM

2. 7" Touch Screen compatability issues?
My Origen 15e has 7" touch screen has 1024 x 768 native resolution, and TV is 1080i/p.
- I think I read somewhere this can be a problem if the TV is different resolution, but I cant find these comments/solutions again. Also any ATI/Nvidia issues here?

I have the same project in mind. I'd like to buy the new Thermaltake DH-104 case with the 7" lcd screen, so I made some tests. I bought a 4650 and connected my monitor via VGA and the tv via component (no HDMI here) in extended desktop mode. The monitor was set to 800x600 and the tv to 1920x1080 30Hz. Using J River Media Center I can have perfect hardware acceleration of full screen video on the tv, while I'm using JRMC's interface on the monitor. I had to struggle with drivers, codecs and renderers, but it can be done.

Now I have a big problem with PDVD. If I move its window into the tv to watch a dvd, I only get a black screen. JRMC uses PDVD video decoder and using VMR9 I can see the images on the secondary screen (tv), so I believe it's some limitation of PDVD. Not a problem with dvd's because I'll use JRMC anyway, but now I'm concerned about BD's. In clone mode it works ok, but I don't like it at all.

Does anybody know a workaround?

sneals2000

11-24-08, 12:29 PM

E5200 is enough for HD playback (usually 30% or less CPU usage) as long as GPU assist works.

Cheers renethx. Sounds like a 9400 Gigabyte motherboard and an E5200 will do the trick. Just need to hear from others if 9400 northbridge is cool enough for a small HTPC case - and if it does need active cooling what would be a good cooler to fit for a low-profile case (If I go for a Silverstone LC04/110 or Lian Li PC36 case with risers I need to check that I can cool the NB without fouling the PCI cards or cooking them?).

11-24-08, 01:49 PM

I became pretty involved with building a new HTPC about three months ago but work and family sort of got in the way. I come back now and as I've been reading it appears there are more options out there. The basic question I guess I have is: Is there an ITX or mATX motherboard available now that uses integrated graphics which is clearly the best option? I am flexible in regards to Intel/AMD, etc..

rotelmania

11-24-08, 02:57 PM

SLIVER23

11-24-08, 04:01 PM

Hey, new to the forum but been building PCs for a while. Just built my first Mini HTPC and was having an issue with my HDMI sound. I am using the "Intel DG45FC" motherboard and E8400 Processor running Window Vista Ultimate. I am running the onboard graphics (Intel GMA X4500HD) into my reciever (STR-DG720) and then to my TV (52" Sony Bravia XBR 3 series). I am having an issue with the HDMI audio and my reciever. It reads "PCM 48" on the receiver but it only sends a 2 channel signal and will not allow me to adjust any setting on the reciever. I am using window media player 11 with Klite codecs for some sources, Power DVD Pro w/ Blu Ray for others...nothing seems to change so I figure it must be motherboard adjustments.

I know it is not the receiver, though not the greatest reciever it gets the job done and when using my PS3 (via HDMI) or my laptop (via HDMI) both audio and video play perfect while receiver decodes signal to whatever I set it to. With the PC I cannot change it to try PLII decoding, or even adjust the rear/side speakers from the receiver once it is playing. It just sends it out in the front two speakers.

I was thinking this is a problem between the computer decoding the source first and then the receiver not needing to, but where change any of these settings? Furthermore, to resolve the problem I was able to use the SPDIF out on the motherboard and it sends perfect Dolby, DTS, TrueHD, or anything I throw at it... why does the SPDIF work perfectly? I've tried adjusting all my settings in the sound options and configuring the HDMI audio output, it even configures HDMI playing a sound from each speaker as it should, it just doesn't work for any other audio source. I feel like I have exhausted every option, does anyone have any ideas?

ndabunka

11-24-08, 04:14 PM

Smeagle

11-24-08, 05:04 PM

sneals2000

11-24-08, 05:49 PM

I'm wanting to get rid of my cable contract and start getting OTA HD signals through my PC. I have my PC video/audio out going to my stereo system and video then gets fed to a 50" plasma.

I would like to be able to record up to two shows at once. I'm looking at the Hauppage HVR 2250 as my tuner that will have an OTA antenna hooked up to it.

Is this all I need. I have a feeling this is probably much more complicated that I'm thinking here. Is this the correct card for my needs?

Do you have Vista Home Premium or Ultimate, or XP Media Center Edition? If so then it could really be quite simple - as OTA digital cards are well supported in the Windows Media Center app that you get with these OSs.

Otherwise you're in the realm of 3rd party software. IME the software provided with Hauppauge cards is not great - though the cards themselves are fine. (I have built quite a few European Media Centres with Hauppauge Digital OTA cards in Windows Media Center installs)

archibael

11-24-08, 05:50 PM

renethx

11-24-08, 06:34 PM

Is there an ITX or mATX motherboard available now that uses integrated graphics which is clearly the best option?
GeForce 9300/9400.

renethx

11-24-08, 06:43 PM

Hi all, I would like to know currently which cpu (intel) and motherboard would be the best bang for the buck? i am planning on beginning to build my HTPC. What I want to do with my HTPC is to:
-playback dvd and blue ray movies
- record and playback HD tv broadcast
Basically any low-end to mid-range systems in my recommendations is almost equally the best bang for the buck, though none of them is complete. Criteria of selection would be the upper limit of your budget, form factor (mATX or ATX), 24p support, SD PQ, multichannel HDMI audio or not.

mudwiggle

11-24-08, 07:38 PM

Hi Renethx,

Which is the best OS to use for a HTPC? WinXP or Vista?
Things I'm interested in are;
1). Interface, logical, easy to use/navigate (must be easy for the wife!)
2). Use with remote control (any recommended RC's for this?)
3). Which OS optimises Hardware Acceleration better? (I'm using a HD 4650)
4). Anything else I've forgotten to think of.....

carefreepastor

11-24-08, 08:09 PM

Would it be totally brainless to go with this motherboard now and buy a graphics card later?

cenerhimself

11-24-08, 10:44 PM

Quick question as there is a Combo Deal with the 780g Asus Board. Building an HTPC and was recommended an AMD 4850e Dual Core. The Combo Deal gives the Asus Board and an AMD 5600+ (link below). Will the 780g Board, AMD 5600+, and other normal HTPC components work with this PSU/Case Combo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811164098&Tpk=linkworld%20case

Here is the link for the 5600+ AMD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103234

Also, are there any disadvantages to choosing this (seemingly more powerful) processor over the 4850e? Thanks!

rotelmania

11-24-08, 10:50 PM

Basically any low-end to mid-range systems in my recommendations is almost equally the best bang for the buck, though none of them is complete. Criteria of selection would be the upper limit of your budget, form factor (mATX or ATX), 24p support, SD PQ, multichannel HDMI audio or not.

In your recommendation for midrange system, you use ati radeon hd4670. Is that card better than hd4550 for HTPC purpose?

DaveC19

11-25-08, 02:30 AM

I am looking to get a PC for use with playing back Blu-Ray disks.

I notice this thread is mainly about building a system, buying a bunch of separate components and cards and making it work.

I was wondering is there anything off of the shelf that I can just go buy out of the box without having to hassle around configuring something?

My goal is very simple. I want to play back BD movies with the PC through the VGA port connected to my monitor. My monitor allows VGA input and 1:1 pixel mapping, no scaling. HDMI always scales, I have no control of that, so that is why I don't want a standard player.

So all it has to do is play BD through the standard VGA port that is it, but it needs to play it with no degradation in PQ, color range, no skipping or pausing, no framerate drops or glitches. Is there something that is pretty cheap that will do this and what would be best from someone that has experience with a certain model.

Thanks.

sloth0815

11-25-08, 05:40 AM

3LitreRS

11-25-08, 08:25 AM

1. IMO only the case and OS are worth keeping. AMD 3000 and X1300-Pro are weak in HD contents.

2. In clone mode the display resolutions must be identical. So only the extended mode is possible in your case. Every recent graphics card supports this mode fine.

3, 4, 5. These questions are beyond my knowledge. You may get an answer if you start a new thread.

Thank you Renethx for your comments.
Cheers :)

renethx

11-25-08, 08:31 AM

Which is the best OS to use for a HTPC? WinXP or Vista?
IMO Vista.

renethx

11-25-08, 08:36 AM

Would it be totally brainless to go with this motherboard now and buy a graphics card later?
That's one way to upgrade the system when a better graphics card is released (say, one supporting TrueHD bitstream over HDMI; I don't know when such a card released, however).

renethx

11-25-08, 08:45 AM

The Combo Deal gives the Asus Board and an AMD 5600+ (link below). Will the 780g Board, AMD 5600+, and other normal HTPC components work with this PSU/Case Combo:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811164098&Tpk=linkworld%20case

Here is the link for the 5600+ AMD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103234

Also, are there any disadvantages to choosing this (seemingly more powerful) processor over the 4850e? Thanks!
If the combo deal is this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.141532), then NO, the mb is ATX and the case is mATX.

5600+ is not bad. It's faster but consumes more power (5W at idle, 30W at load).

renethx

11-25-08, 08:48 AM

In your recommendation for midrange system, you use ati radeon hd4670. Is that card better than hd4550 for HTPC purpose?
HD 4670 is more powerful than HD 4550 in SD post-processing.

3LitreRS

11-25-08, 08:54 AM

Here are some general thoughts - I don't have first-hand experience of all of them - but there are some suggested areas to explore.

If the TV or PJ are in different rooms I'd suggest either a second HTPC or a Media Center Extender solution.

The extenders work well for Windows Media Center Live/Recorded TV particularly, and if the main HTPC is powerful you can also run Transcode 360 or similar solutions to get stuff that isn't native MPEG2/WMV to play on them.

You can run your HTPC as a server for other HTPCs if you wish - in fact for Media Center Extender use your main HTPC has to have the tuners in it - though I believe you can record Recorded TV onto a Windows Share (so could have a server for storage elsewhere to keep the heat/noise/bulk down on your HTPC).

Yes - I think that triple video output solutions that work reliably are quite rare (Main TV, Touch Screen, Second TV/PJ would be three outputs) Sending HD content via long cable runs as HDMI or Component isn't great - and you may find controlling both outputs at the same time really tricky to manage (two remote controls controlling two video outputs etc.)

If you are running your main HTPC as a Media Center set-up (with XP MCE or Vista Media Center) then Media Center Extenders (XBox 360 is cheap but noisy, Linksys 2100/2200 are smaller and much quieter) are a possible solution - though DVD replay on them is a bit tricky to sort.

Cabled Ethernet is the best way of feeding these - though Ethernet over Power cabling 200Mbs solutions can work if you have good wiring that supports high data rates. WiFi is not a great solution for streaming video - particularly HD stuff.

For data streaming - Ethernet (if you put in good quality cabling you'll be able to upgrade to Gigabit at some point if that is useful?)

PS3 could be useful for UPnP file streaming (again would always suggest cabled ethernet for video) - and if you are in Aus then the PlayTV dual DVB-T tuner may be worth a look as a standalone PVR solution for SD and HD OTA digital TV.

The PS3 isn't really a solution for tight integration into an HTPC set-up - but is useful for occasional stuff.

For info - I currently have a home-built HTPC connected to my TV. This has a DVB-S2 satellite card and a dual DVB-T OTA terrestrial card, running Vista. This accesses a home-built unRAID server via Gigabit Ethernet for MyMovies DVD storage purposes. I can use an XBox 360 to view SD MPEG2 stuff elsewhere - via Ethernet - but don't have full DVD replay functionality on this. If I use a second HTPC then I can get full DVD replay from the unRAID server, but would need local tuners for Live TV (though recorded TV may be possible from a server share) as you can't stream Live TV between HTPCs within Media Center (though you can with extenders)

Annoyingly Windows Media Center can't run in extender mode (yet) - the "SoftSled" solution that allowed it has never been released. Other solutions like SageTV do allow it.

Thanks Sneals2000, very helpful comments. Slowly Im beginning to understand my options! The Sony PlayTV unit is not here in Aus yet to my knowledge and could be an interesting PVR I know the PS3 harddrive is user upgradable also. Is it in the uk yet or do you have a link? There also seems to be several products of similar name but unrelated to the PS3 just to confuse things, in case you did not mean the PS3 add on?

I think I need to look closely at the PS3 as a future network component or extender but it is currently located with the main family TV, where I was also planning to locate the HPTC/Origen 15e case & touchscreen, to also serve up Music to the Hi Fi system without turning the 60" TV on. The PS3 would be better at the other TV upstairs and connected by ethernet and perhaps that will see the files on the Origen 15e giving me a server like result. But then I cant enjoy the PS3 with my son on the big screen which is ideal for 2 player racing games. Decisions decisions!

I think Im heading for a combined server and HTPC with the Origen so next to decide on best motherboard to go with HIS 4670 graphics card. Any comments welcome. Im not sure what the capacity of this case is or if it would become too noisy being in the family room also?

renethx

11-25-08, 09:02 AM

renethx

11-25-08, 09:11 AM

sneals2000

11-25-08, 09:44 AM

Thanks Sneals2000, very helpful comments. Slowly Im beginning to understand my options! The Sony PlayTV unit is not here in Aus yet to my knowledge and could be an interesting PVR I know the PS3 harddrive is user upgradable also. Is it in the uk yet or do you have a link? There also seems to be several products of similar name but unrelated to the PS3 just to confuse things, in case you did not mean the PS3 add on?

Yep - PlayTV is on sale in the UK and has been for a month or two. We have one at home. It is pretty good - nice HD UI and it uses the UK OTA 7 day EPG data. It isn't quite Tivo - the Live TV integration isn't quite as good - and it doesn't offer dual record - just watch and record different channels. Picture quality pretty good though - the PS3 does a good job of scaling. (Better than my 780G based HTPC)

I think I need to look closely at the PS3 as a future network component or extender but it is currently located with the main family TV, where I was also planning to locate the HPTC/Origen 15e case & touchscreen, to also serve up Music to the Hi Fi system without turning the 60" TV on. The PS3 would be better at the other TV upstairs and connected by ethernet and perhaps that will see the files on the Origen 15e giving me a server like result. But then I cant enjoy the PS3 with my son on the big screen which is ideal for 2 player racing games. Decisions decisions!

I'd treat the PS3 as a games console in that case!

I think Im heading for a combined server and HTPC with the Origen so next to decide on best motherboard to go with HIS 4670 graphics card. Any comments welcome. Im not sure what the capacity of this case is or if it would become too noisy being in the family room also?

I initially went for the single box solution - but once I hit 3TB of storage I decided to split the two functions. Movies are now stored on an unRAID server connected Gigabit Ethernet to my HTPC, which now just stores Recorded TV and the OS, and a backup of my music.

11-25-08, 09:45 AM

GeForce 9300/9400.

Thanks! I was hoping you might say that.

ndabunka

11-25-08, 02:25 PM

Hello, I am complete noob when it comes to networking so please bear with me. I was thinking if it is possible to have a mediaserver that does all the video decoding in a seperate room where its noise doesn't bother anyone and a passively cooled (silent) very low power client in the living room. The client would receive the data from the server and pass it on to the receiver and projector.
Maybe this is nonsense but I thought to better ask.
Thanks in advance,

Jonas

Sloth - Sounds like your considering leveraging something like a Citrix Metaframe server to allow other "client's" access to the video on the server. This may work, but I don't think anyone here has even considered it. Rather, most will stream the output to whatever device they are targeting DIRECTLY (rather than through a PC network). I was a Citrix certified guy (way back in the day...10 years ago) and even have a copy of Metaframe sitting on my shelf (which I have not used in 6 years) but even I don't think I would attack that type of effort with an HTPC solution. The HTPC has enough "challenges" by itself, much less trying to layer the Citrix platform on top. In other words, getting BluRay content to display properly on a DIRECT VGA and/or DVI interface is one thing. Getting it to "stream" that output across a network is quite another. Getting it to re-display correctly (smothly, etc) on a client accessing that stream across the network of the HTPC that is generating it could be "super simple" or insanely complex and IMHO not worth it.

If you are thinking (like others) that you can then stream your own HD content across the internet and thereby create your own "Pay-per-view" service.... You cannot LEGALLY do that without going through a LOT of regulations (my current gig is working with service providers to enable triple-pay and PPV services across their own platforms).

SLIVER23

11-25-08, 03:14 PM

Archibael,
Thanks for the reply. I have not checked the EDID but will try when I get home... Basically what I want, though it may not be the "best" sound, is to have the computer output Dolby Digital to my reciever. I like having the control at the receiver so when listening to different media (music, etc.) I can change it to sound like 5.1 or 7.1 (Pro Logic, etc.). I don't believe that is possible if my computer is sending bit for bit LPCM. So let me rephrase my question, can I send Dolby Digital out of my HDMI port instead of LPCM (I know many others may not want to do that)?

My computer must recognize the receiver and speakers as there is a configuration under the "HD Audio HDMI" where I can play each individual speaker and the sound comes from each accordingly. The problem is that under the same configuration menu the only options for "output" are "FM Quality, DVD Quality, Studio Quality" and they do not explain what any of these are... I changed them but it still results in LPCM just higher bitrate.

Thanks again for any help.

danny2008

11-25-08, 05:18 PM

Hi guys,

Got a bit tired of the fan noise coming from my htpc. Was just a bit too disturbing for my liking.
Bought a new case a Lian Li V350, plenty room for big fans and a Zalman ZM-MFC2 fan controller.
One channel of this controller is a 4 pin PWM controlled option and i want to connect this one direct to my CPU cooler.

Question, do i have to disable some bios control of CPU fan before booting or does the board boot without a fan connected to 4 pin motherboard connection.
I wont use any bios fan control, i will be checking temps offcourse untill i find a good balance.
I am asking to avoid double (dis)connection work of the fan in case the system wont boot.

Thanks and Regards, Danny

archibael

11-25-08, 05:20 PM

Yes, you can send undecoded Dolby Digital or DTS over HDMI. You cannot, however, send undecoded Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-MA over HDMI-- that has to be decoded in software to LPCM one way or another.

In my personal case, I just make sure my output filter is set to send DTS and Dolby Digital out to "SPDIF", and then ensure the HDMI Audio is selected as my default sound device. Passes through just fine to my receiver.

Davinleeds

11-25-08, 05:51 PM

I did a search for ALC889 and only came up with 4 posts.

Chris Lynch posted at Arcsoft forum and it looks like another HD audio solution. The pdf looks very interesting.

http://www.realtek.com/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=173

And sorry if this is old news

Ewingr

11-25-08, 05:56 PM

...(say, one supporting TrueHD bitstream over HDMI; I don't know when such a card released, however).

So I guess there is no reason to upgrade yet to a TrueHD capable receiver. I was thinking about doing that, and getting an HDMI capable card. Guess I'll wait.

timnkoo

11-25-08, 08:02 PM

Hi guys. First off big thanks to renethx for all the information provided throughout this thread- amazing!

My proposed system is this:

Antec Fusion Remote Case
AMD 4850e CPU
Asus M3N78-VM AM2+ GF8200 MB
Crucial Ballistic Tracer RAM (2Gb)
2 x WD GP 1TB HDD
TV Tuner of some sort (still undecided)
Wireless Card
BD Rom
Seasonic 430W PS
Samsung 46" HD LCD
Vista 64 Ultimate

My main requirements of this HTPC is movie/tv watching and upscaling from SD DVD. I also have ripped some of my DVD collection to my HDD using DivX.

renethx, would you please be able to provide some insight to the following questions-

1. What is the difference in the following GPUs in relation to HTPC and my requirements?-

Asus HD4550 512M
Asus EAH4650 512M
Asus HD4670 512M

They are roughly the same price give or take $10- which would suit my need best?

2. Would you recommend I buy the Scyth Ninja Mini for the 4850e CPU

3. Would the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H MB be a better or worse choice and why?

4. Any other flaws in the system?

Cheers.

renethx

11-25-08, 08:19 PM

Question, do i have to disable some bios control of CPU fan before booting or does the board boot without a fan connected to 4 pin motherboard connection.
I wont use any bios fan control, i will be checking temps offcourse untill i find a good balance.
I am asking to avoid double (dis)connection work of the fan in case the system wont boot.
Depends on the mb. Some mb (with default BIOS settings) shows a warning sign at POST if no fan is connected to the mb CPU fan connector. Just disable any related items in BIOS.

sneals2000

11-25-08, 08:30 PM

So I guess there is no reason to upgrade yet to a TrueHD capable receiver. I was thinking about doing that, and getting an HDMI capable card. Guess I'll wait.

Whilst it is still tricky to bitstream Dolby True HD and DTS HD HR and MA tracks from a PC via HDMI (though the Asus Xonar is able to do this for some audio in specific set-ups AIUI - though not with 24p video...) and output them for external decoding, it IS possible to losslessly decode audio encoded in these lossless (or high quality lossy in the case of DTS HD HR) formats to multichannel PCM and output this via HDMI - effectively decoding in the PC rather than the amp. This is what the PS3 does as well for that matter - as does my HD-DVD player. (This also allows you to play the uncompressed multichannel PCM tracks used on early Blu-ray releases prior to True HD and DTS HD being used)

There are still issues that present >16bit and >48kHz tracks being output in this manner without downconverting to 16bit and 48kHz - but a large majority of movie soundtracks are 16/48 on BD releases anyway AIUI.

The benefit of multichannel PCM output of True HD/DTS HD MA audio tracks over HDMI in comparison with SPDIF output of PCM2.0/DD5.1/DTS5.1 (either separate tracks or cored tracks) is very appreciable - in my experience it is easily possible to hear the difference and it does improve things noticably.

renethx

11-25-08, 08:32 PM

1. What is the difference in the following GPUs in relation to HTPC and my requirements?-

Asus HD4550 512M
Asus EAH4650 512M
Asus HD4670 512M

They are roughly the same price give or take $10- which would suit my need best?

2. Would you recommend I buy the Scyth Ninja Mini for the 4850e CPU

3. Would the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H MB be a better or worse choice and why?

4. Any other flaws in the system?
1. The main difference is the number of stream processors (the muscle of the card)

- HD 4550: 80
- HD 4650/4670: 320

Needless to say HD 4650/4670 is more powerful in post-processing (and gaming). I recommend HD 4650/4670 if price difference is small.

2. You can go with passive cooling if you buy Ninja Mini. The stock cooler is not bad of course.

3. Personally I prefer GA-MA78GM-S2H(P).

sneals2000

11-25-08, 09:00 PM

Hello, I am complete noob when it comes to networking so please bear with me. I was thinking if it is possible to have a mediaserver that does all the video decoding in a seperate room where its noise doesn't bother anyone and a passively cooled (silent) very low power client in the living room. The client would receive the data from the server and pass it on to the receiver and projector.
Maybe this is nonsense but I thought to better ask.
Thanks in advance,

Jonas

It is perfectly sensible to run a server for storage of lots of media away from your main viewing room (moving the bulk and noise away). This also allows multiple PCs to access the same stuff easily.

HOWEVER - you will need to stream the compressed/encoded MPEG2/H264/VC-1 video (or Divx, AVI, MKV files) over your network (ideally wired - and Gigabit for fast file transfers) rather than decoding in the server to uncompressed video and streaming the decompressed over the network. Uncompressed HD video (as would be decompressed) - as carried over HDMI etc. - runs at a higher bit rate than can even be carried over Gigabit Ethernet (around 3Gb/s for 4:4:4 1920x1080 RGB) - so you need to do the decoding locally - or else distribute the HDMI to your display over a distance (and some back channel for remote control signals etc.)

You can get silent Media Center Extenders (which connect to a remote Media Center PC), or build quiet low-profile HTPCs to do this.

Using something like Citrix or VNC to achieve it isn't really workable - as streaming uncompressed video over a network - even cabled - isn't really viable.

(For comparison the compressed HD content available to the consumer runs at less than 50Mbs - often less than 20Mbs - compared to the uncompressed rates of between 700Mb/s for 4:2:0 1280x720/60p to 3000Mb/s for 4:4:4 1920x1080/60p - and that is ignoring blanking...)

X-Nemesis

11-25-08, 09:25 PM

renethx

11-25-08, 09:58 PM

So I tried to match the Intel/Intel high end system here in Canada @ Newegg.ca and was able to wish list everything but the ZEROtherm BTF90 and the Zalman HD160 Plus.

What would you recommend as replacements for these parts?
Both are availabe at other retailers (have you checked NCIX.com)? Xigmatek HDT-SD964; Antec Fusion Remote Max, SilverStone GD01, SilverStone GW02.

StupidPig

11-25-08, 10:00 PM

Need some advice.....

I'm using a GA-MA78GM-S2H with 4850e for my HTPC right now. There are two things I'm really unhappy with this setup:
1. It didn't work on any DVD post-processing.
2. Super slow transcode from DVD to Xvid. Recently I tried to convert a 10 disc series of DVD drama, which each disc hold about 2 hrs video, it took an awful 2hr for each disc to transcode.

Am I understand correctly for the following?
- a. Adding a HD4670 (about $80) should help #1.
- b. Replacing the 4850e with a 9650 (about $160) shall help both #1 & 2.

Does the PQ for DVD same for both option a & b?
What is the power difference between "4850e+HD4670" and "9650"?
What is the average time required to transcode 2hr DVD to Xvid with the 9650?

Oh BTW, does anyone tried the 9600 for HTPC? I know it come with the TLB bug, but it is super cheap on NewEgg right now ($105) compare with the 9650. Does the bug hit during normal HTPC usage and transcoding?

Thanks.

renethx

11-25-08, 10:26 PM

Am I understand correctly for the following?
- a. Adding a HD4670 (about $80) should help #1.
- b. Replacing the 4850e with a 9650 (about $160) shall help both #1 & 2.

Does the PQ for DVD same for both option a & b?
What is the power difference between "4850e+HD4670" and "9650"?
What is the average time required to transcode 2hr DVD to Xvid with the 9650?
No, HD 4670 is better than Phenom+IGP. But if you want fast transcoding, you will want Phenom anyway (BTW Phenom II 45 nm will be released in January 2009, that runs much cooler and faster than Phenom). Try Phenom (or Phenom II) first and see if SD PQ is good enough or not.

9650 consumes more power than 4850e+HD4670 (roughly +15W at idle and video playback, +50W at transcoding). It should twice faster in transcoding.

Read also ATI Stream, including ATI Avivo Video Converter (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~128994,00.html).

This intuitive, easy-to-use application enables transcoding of HD video up to 17 times faster1 than with the CPU alone, in tests performed using an ATI Radeon™ HD 4850 graphics card.

Generally GPU transcoding is much faster than CPU transcoding.

StupidPig

11-26-08, 12:19 AM

No, HD 4670 is better than Phenom+IGP. But if you want fast transcoding, you will want Phenom anyway (BTW Phenom II 45 nm will be released in January 2009, that runs much cooler and faster than Phenom). Try Phenom (or Phenom II) first and see if SD PQ is good enough or not.

9650 consumes more power than 4850e+HD4670 (roughly +15W at idle and video playback, +50W at transcoding). It should twice faster in transcoding.

Thanks. Sounds like I should just get a HD4670 now and then wait for Phenom II next year.

skerich

11-26-08, 02:32 AM

or you can just go here and get this card for $299
http://www.cannonpc.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=235
It will not work without buying a qualified Vista PC with it. That is the problem. Its easy to read past that print but you have to buy a PC with the card that has a special code in the BIOs. The card will not work by itself. The key word in the ad is "PC". There is even a standalone version of this card with its own power supply that connects via USB but it STILL had to connect to a OCUR PC to work!

"on your Digital Cable Ready Windows Vista® PC "

What is so very very frustrating is that as you noted the card is out there and ready to go but Cable Labs is not letting people use them without buy a PC from one of the "authorized" OCUR vendors. In other words they paid CableLabs for keeping the cards out of the market and forcing people to buy an entire PC to go with the card.

Its completely unfair to hold back this technology but once its out there the cable companies DVR stranglehold will be broken because anyone can build a HTPC or DVR box with one of these cards and take business away from them.

Thanks for trying. I made the same mistake when I was looking.

I am going to wait before buying a tuner card in the hope that someone or government agency will force Cable Labs to release this stupid requirement.

I have cable cards in my TIVO now and they work great. I want to put them into my HTPC I am building but there is no way to do it right now with that damn BIOs.

skerich

11-26-08, 02:39 AM

That's a lot for that information Jon.

Now I wish that I could just record the encrypted cable using a cable card instead of using the cable adapter and a IR blaster to change stations. I guess it works out the same but the technology to make this work is out there but being withheld by greedy Cable Labs and the companies that paid them off to force it to only be used with a OCUR PC. The card should be made available to anyone to use. I have never heard of such a mugging before by a card or technology manufacturer before.

Where is our government when you need them?

Steve

DaveC19

11-26-08, 03:22 AM

HP Slimline s3600z and Acer Aspire X1200 (check this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1046863)) are examples.

Ok thanks.

Which slimline model though? There are all kinds of configurations AMD quad core, Dual core, triple core and anywhere from 1.8 GHz-2.5 GHz
etc and they are all called "Slimline s3600z". Kind of confusing.

Bisclavaret

11-26-08, 09:26 AM

Renethex - thanks for the help re: G45 vs 4670 on SD quality. Now, a couple more questions I'll toss out to you (or anyone)

1. Motherboard: Currently debating between the Gigabyte EP43 DS3L recommended here and the Asus P5QL-E. The latter is $26 more, for which you get various features not on the Gigabyte, the biggest of which I like is hardware RAID. (I know it only has 2 PCI 1x slots, but since I'm not doing tuners or PVR work I'm not worried about it). I think that RAID would be useful a couple of years down the road when HDD sizes / price per gigabyte makes Blu-Ray ripping a little more economically viable (a couple of 2TB or 3TB drives in a RAID 0, something like that). Major question: the Asus uses the Realtek ALC1200 audio codec, whereas the Gigabyte uses the ALC888. Anyone know of any real functional differences between the two, particularly in relation to HTPC sound over HDMI? I can't find any info relating to such.

2. Remote control: The Logitech Harmony 880 is recommended here, which I know is a fantasitc remote. That being said, the Harmony 550 is going to be a Black Friday special at a brick-and-mortar, which seems a damn good price for such a remote. My remote purchase would be for HTPC and DishNetwork ViP622 control. Any opinions on the 550 vs. the 880 in this regards?

3. Getting Harmony To work w/the PC: I know you have to have an IR receiver for the Harmony to work with an HTPC. I'm planning on buying a Sonata III case ( which naturally doesn't have an IR receiver built in. Will the Antec Multimedia station (installs in a 3.5" bay) listed as a recommendation on pg 85 allow a Harmony remote to work with the HTPC?

Thanks in advance for all your help - I'm thinking I'll do my purchasing on Friday, see how many deals I can get.

Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving!

Ewingr

11-26-08, 09:52 AM

[QUOTE=sneals2000;15152204]Whilst it is still tricky to bitstream Dolby True HD and DTS HD HR and MA tracks from a PC via HDMI ...QUOTE]

Thanks Sneals2000. I'll do some browsing around and see what I can find about that. I'm using TMT, so I presume there is somethign that will work wiht that, as there aren't tha many different packages that will even play Blue Ray.

For interest, I did just go over to Arcsoft to see the spec, and while they have the TrueHD logo on the marketing page, it does not indicate that it will decode TrueHD.

rmmeli

11-26-08, 01:14 PM

I was looking at the recommendations for the midrange mATX system and had a question as to whether I really need the graphics card. What would I be losing by not having one?

Thanks.

System

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775, $133.
* CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000, $36.
* Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 and nForec 730i chipset microATX, $135. A cheaper alternative is MSI P7NGM-Digital GeForce 9300 and nForec 730i chipset microATX, $110, which is of better value if you don't need an S/PDIF port and an eSATA port.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $34.
* Graphics Card: ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M GeForce 9500 GT, $68 (after rebate).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX, $57 (after rebate).
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black, $143.
* Total Cost: $610

Teeps

11-26-08, 03:11 PM

I am going to update my current HTPC.
I would like the updated system to do the following:
record OTA HD content with MyHd MDP-130 (hardware encoding; very little CPU load)
play back .ts files (via software) while recording
pass 5.1 spdif to Locgictech (5.1) speaker system

play DVD and future HD-DVD

Seeking advice/opinion on the following components.

Motherboard: Gigabyte Ga-P35-Ds3r Core 2 Quad 1333fsb $139.99
or
Motherboard: ASUS P5N-D LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 750i SLI $134.99

Video card: ECS N9400GT-1GDS-F GeForce 9400 GT 512MB $60.99

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 Wolfdale 2.66GHz LGA 775 Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E7300 $119.99

theclear

11-26-08, 05:28 PM

Hy guys, i planning to buy a videocard but i cant choose between radeon 4670 and 4830 ? it seens that 4830 is very powerful in hd , post processing and can handle almost any kind f videos .thus 4670 do the same ? its for HTPC use in combination with gigabyte GM78...s2h micro atx and amd 4850e (waiting for Phenom II), Thus somebody have the radeon 4830? is that great/? thanxx in advance

iLLNiSS

11-26-08, 10:16 PM

Thanks. Sounds like I should just get a HD4670 now and then wait for Phenom II next year.

just a heads up, your going to need a new mobo anyways as far as i know as the PhenomII is an AM3 CPU. something the GA-MA78GM-S2H lacks. The GA-MA78GM-S2HP does however have this feature as well as 140watt CPU support for this powerhouse AMD's :)

if you want faster encoding, a faster clock will help you. So will a quad core.

Personally i'd take less cores for more clock, but in your case you seem to encode alot so more cores and less clock will be better suited.

renethx

11-27-08, 01:26 AM

Which slimline model though? There are all kinds of configurations AMD quad core, Dual core, triple core and anywhere from 1.8 GHz-2.5 GHz
etc and they are all called "Slimline s3600z". Kind of confusing.
Either of the following systems should be good enough for playing BD movies.

s3600z (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&a1=Brand&v1=HP+Pavilion+Slimline&series_name=s3600z_series)

- Vista Home Premium SP1 32-bit
- Athlon X2 4850e
- 2GB DDR2-800
- GeForce 9500GS
- 500GB or 640GB HDD
- Blu-ray DVD player or writer

s3600t (http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=desktops&a1=Brand&v1=HP+Pavilion+Slimline&series_name=s3600t_series)

- Vista Home Premium SP1 32-bit
- Pentium Dual-Core processor E5200
- 3GB DDR2-800
- GeForce 9500GS
- 500GB or 640GB HDD
- Blu-ray DVD player or writer
- TV tuner if like

renethx

11-27-08, 02:33 AM

1. Motherboard: Currently debatingheAsusnd the Asusbyte EP43 DS3L recommended heAsusnd the Asus P5QL-E. The latter is $26 more, for which you get various features not on the Gigabyte, the biggest of which I like is hardware RAID. (I know it only has 2 PCI 1x slots, but since I'm not doing tuners or PVR work I'm not worried about it). I think that RAID would be useful a couple of years down the road when HDD sizes / price per gigabyte makes Blu-Ray ripping a little more economically viable (a couple of 2TB or 3TB drivequeAsusnAID 0,Asusething like that). Major queAsusn: the Asus uses the Realtek ALC1200 audio codec, whereas the Gigabyte uses the ALC888. Anyone know of any real functional differences between the two, particularly in relation to HTPC sound over HDMI? I can't coLogitechheoLogitechg to such.

2. Remote coLogitechhe LogiIfantasitcayfantasitcecommended here, which Ifantasitca fantasitc remote. That being said, the Harmony 550 is going to be a Black Friday special at a brick-and-mortar, which seems a damn good price for foDishNetworkDViPNetworkeViPrchase would be foDishNetworkDViPNetwork ViP622 control. Any opinions on the 550 vs. the 880 in this regards?

3. Getting Harmony To work w/the PC: I know you have to have an IR receiver for the Harmony to work with an HTPC. I'm planning on buying a Sonata III case ( which naturally doesn't have an IR receiver built in. Will the Antec Multimedia station (installs in a 3.5" bay) listed as a recommendation on pg 85 allow a Harmony remote to work with the HTPC?
1. Buy GA-EP45-UD3P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358) ($100 after rebate). Better than P5QL-E. If you use HDMI audio from a Radeon card, you don't use the onboard audio.

2. Basically both function the same. 880 has color LCD and rechargeable battery with recharging station.

3. They work togother.