Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 19

sneals2000

11-28-08, 01:48 PM

I'm slowly gathering all the parts for my HTPC, and I will be attempting to build it this winter break. This is my first ever build, so I want to be 100% prepared. What tools/supplies will I need to build? Is everything basically just "plug it in" or connect cables and go? Thanks!

Most of my recent PC builds have only needed a standard cross-head (PosiDriv/Philips type) screwdriver and in some cases a flat-blade.

Having one with a magnetic tip can be useful when trying to screw in slightly less accessible bits in smaller cases.

Having a small pair of pliers or tweezers can also be useful for fishing things out if you drop them.

I also try to have a supply of cable-ties to keep the internal cabling neat and tidy, which can also improve cooling. Take care not to tie them too tight (so you can remove them without cutting the wires they are holding should you need to) and once you've cut the ends off, beware the sharp edges.

In fact beware sharp edges in general - some cases are less "finger-friendly" than others.

Also - remember to take basic anti-static precautions when handling RAM, CPUs, PCI cards, motherboards etc.

Also - don't use excessive pressure - if something doesn't fit, chances are it is in the wrong way. (Occasionally you DO need to exert pressure - particularly on some ill-fitting back panels etc. Connectors, CPUs, RAM, heatsinks etc. should never need to be forced)

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 02:40 PM

Thanks a lot Sneals. Is processor paste something that is necessary to put in an AM2+ Processor?

rebkell

11-28-08, 03:18 PM

Thanks a lot Sneals. Is processor paste something that is necessary to put in an AM2+ Processor?

If you buy a retail(as opposed to OEM) CPU, it usually comes with everything you need.

sneals2000

11-28-08, 05:13 PM

Yep - if you buy a retail CPU with a bundled heatsink+fan you get everything you need. The heatsink has a layer of paste on it, and comes with a plastic cover. You remove the cover, align the heatsink and secure it in position. No need for extra gunk application in my experience.

I am a former-engineer - who hasn't worked properly as an engineer since 1993 - and I've had absolutely no problems building at least 4 PCs since 2003. It really is almost always just a case of pushing in connectors and screwing in screws. The biggest pain is the OS installation (apart from unRAID which was a total breeze - fantastic bit of software/OS) and then tweaking so it does what you want it to.

I'd always suggest backing up your OS partition using Acronis or similar everytime you are happy - so that you can quickly revert if Windows System Restores doesn't do what you need. (A very good argument for having a small OS partition/drive)

sneals2000

11-28-08, 05:17 PM

My other tip would be to take things steadily, not to rush, and if at all possible have a laptop or another working PC to hand so you can check anything you are unsure of. The information on the internet is a LOT more helpful than the information in the bundled paperwork in many cases.

Also look at the website for the kit you are buying and check that the drivers you install are up-to-date. (But also check that they are OK with 3rd parties)

My key advice is take things steadily though - and double-check/second-guess everything you do. I've always done this and had no major issues when building stuff.

Oh - and it is a LOT of fun, and you get a GREAT feeling of accomplishment once it works!

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 07:05 PM

Again, thanks Sneals and rebkell. When I (hopefully) connect everything and boot it up, is it as simple as putting in the Vista Install Disc and following the normal Windows Install Instructions?

sneals2000

11-28-08, 07:13 PM

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 07:23 PM

Sneals, I think once I get to the point where Vista is installed, I should be able to install the included drivers. Gonna be an exciting day when I finally get this purchased and working, Thanks for all your help! :)

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 07:39 PM

Another question I just thought of. The Mobo I want to buy says it comes with a SATA Cable. All HDDs I want to buy are OEM, so does that mean I need to buy an extra SATA Cable for each SATA element I want to put into the computer? I will be putting in 1 or 2 SATA HDDs and a Sata DVD Burner. They will be OEM products, so will I need to buy Screws and Cables or are the Screws already in the Mobo? Thanks!

DJWikiera

11-28-08, 07:51 PM

renethx

11-28-08, 07:51 PM

i will build my first htpc, mainly for video (mkv/avi/mp4, hd trailer) and audio playback
i have also a PlayStation 3, used as bluray player

following the precius renethx suggestions i have 2 possibility (at about the same price)

Intel e8400
Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H
Club3D nVidia 9500GT Fanless
2*Kingston DDR800 2GB
WD 640GB GreenPower

OR

Intel e8400
Asus P5Q-SE
Sapphire HD4830
2*Kingston DDR800 2GB
WD 640GB GreenPower

what are your opinions ? what about PSU and CPU Cooler to use ?

i want also add a PVR card for dvb-t. Any suggestion
Assuming you don't play games, I recommend the first system without 9500 GT. (If you play games, add 9600 GT/9800 GT.) 450W PSU is enough (e.g. Corsair CMPSU-450VX). Cooler depends on the case size. Try the stock cooler first.

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 07:55 PM

You'll need to buy a couple more sata cables. The case you purchase usually comes with hardware to mount motherboard and drives.

OK makes sense, is a Sata Cable like this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022601&p_id=1250&seq=1&format=2#description

all I'd need or do you need a Sata Power Cable from PSU to each individual SATA component?

renethx

11-28-08, 07:58 PM

I'm using a GA-MA78GM-S2H (rev. 1.1 ) with 4850e for my HTPC right now, i use speedfan to monitor my temperatures and i got this : Temp1 -28c , Temp2 - 29c, Temp3 - 80c , Core 10c (stock cooler ). Is temp3 -80c normal?? Have someone the same? thanxx in advance
IIRC there is one sensor that constantly shows 80c (nobody knows what temperature it is). Install EasyTune and check the temperatures.

DJWikiera

11-28-08, 08:01 PM

OK makes sense, is a Sata Cable like this:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022601&p_id=1250&seq=1&format=2#description

all I'd need or do you need a Sata Power Cable from PSU to each individual SATA component?

Yes, thats a SATA cable.

Most power supplies come with at least two sata power connectors, you might want to purchase a 4 pin to two sata connector if needed.

renethx

11-28-08, 08:13 PM

this will be my first HTPC build (second PC build) and i have some questions about partition sizes. HTPC will be used mostly for audio/video file playback and Blu-ray DVD. Vista32, x1 1Tb HDD.

1. should i put the O/S on it's own drive (40 Gb partition?)

2. should my applications be on its own logical drive as well? or with the O/S? with media?

3. are "swap" or "page" logical drives (sized 1.5 x RAM) even needed anymore?

4. is the "easy" answer a 100Gb drive for O/S and apps, and the rest for media?

5. is there a good reason to put music files on a separate drive from video?
Create a 100GB partition for OS and applications and another partition (the rest of HD) for data (video, music or whatever). Page file is automatically assigned by Vista. So initially you don't have to worry about it.

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 08:18 PM

Yes, thats a SATA cable.

Most power supplies come with at least two sata power connectors, you might want to purchase a 4 pin to two sata connector if needed.

OK, I'm a little confused now. This is what I thought the process to connect a SATA device was.
1) Connect SATA Cable from Hard Drive to Motherboard
2) Connect SATA Power Cable from Hard Drive to PSU
--replace Hard Drive for DVD Burner, etc

This would mean 2 types of SATA Cables? This is what my PSU has:

http://c1.neweggimages.com/NeweggImage/productimage/11-156-044-10.jpg

It shows one SATA Cable, so your advice is to buy a 4 pin to SATA converter, something like this?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022604&p_id=2195&seq=1&format=2

Thanks!

renethx

11-28-08, 08:19 PM

I forgot to ask stuff too... :D If I have a blu-ray player on the HTPC, what is the best way to connect it to an image/sound system?
If you use a HDMI receiver and Radeon HD 4xxx/GeForce 9300, 9400/GeForce 8200, 8300/Intel G45, then you just need one HDMI cable for both video and audio and this is the best way.

DJWikiera

11-28-08, 08:28 PM

This would mean 2 types of SATA Cables? This is what my PSU has:
It shows one SATA Cable, so your advice is to buy a 4 pin to SATA converter, something like this?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10226&cs_id=1022604&p_id=2195&seq=1&format=2

Thanks!

Yes, that is the additional connector you will need. Your power supply has two sata power connectors.

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 08:37 PM

I've been reading the Asus M3A Micro-ATX Mobo Manual, and just realized something. The only audio out (other than HDMI, which may or may not work for both audio and video) is Optical. My LCD TV doesn't have Optical In, only Out. There are 6 other connectors, which I thought were Component, but they are really Black, Orange, Light Blue, Lime, Pink, and Gray - representing Rear Speaker, Center/Sub, Line In, Line Out, Microphone, and Side Speaker Out. How would I connect audio to my TV if the HDMI Out from Mobo to HDMI In on my TV doesn't carry audio? Thanks!

renethx

11-28-08, 08:45 PM

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 09:01 PM

Do you mean M3A78? M3A (http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149&l3=592&l4=0&model=1934&modelmenu=1) is ATX without HDMI.

Yes, I'm sorry - M3A78 Micro ATX. Connecting to TV via HDMI for audio and video would be ideal, but I've read otherwise, so I assumed I could do HDMI for Video and the Red/White of Component for Audio, but there is no Red/White. That is where I am currently stuck?

DJWikiera

11-28-08, 09:14 PM

Yes, I'm sorry - M3A78 Micro ATX. Connecting to TV via HDMI for audio and video would be ideal, but I've read otherwise, so I assumed I could do HDMI for Video and the Red/White of Component for Audio, but there is no Red/White. That is where I am currently stuck?

Get one of these (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2) and connect to the lime output and you can hook to TV.

renethx

11-28-08, 09:16 PM

Yes, I'm sorry - M3A78 Micro ATX. Connecting to TV via HDMI for audio and video would be ideal, but I've read otherwise, so I assumed I could do HDMI for Video and the Red/White of Component for Audio, but there is no Red/White. That is where I am currently stuck?
HDMI from M3A78 carries both video and audio (stereo, DD and DTS). Or you can connect the lime connector (Front L and R) to LCD's red/white audio connectors with a 3.5mm male to 2 RCA male cable.

Joseph Clark

11-28-08, 09:23 PM

Not quite. Depending on your motherboard you will probably have to install Vista, then install the drivers required for your motherboard (to get stuff like networking etc. working). You will also probably have to install more recent video drivers than came with your motherboard or video card.

Then you have to install the drivers for things like TV cards etc., and then software for things like Blu-ray replay etc.

I'd allow a good half-day or more for installation of OS, drivers and software, followed by config, depending on the complexity of your build.

It isn't quite as bad as it sounds - but it can get tedious after a couple of times - which is why many of us backup stable installations so that we can revert to them.

It occurs to me that your comments are a really good primer on what's needed and how to do a basic computer build. Put together your last few posts and people who might hesitate to get into a build of their own might be confident enough to try it. It might even have a place at the start of this thread.

I'm sure some people look at this thread and are too intimidated with what they see to go any further. It sort of reminds me of an audio mixer. You see the hundreds of knobs and sliders and say, "I could never do that." When you break it down, though, it's not nearly as hard as it seems. Once you learn one column of a mixer, you know most of the other columns. Same with one of these builds.

I remember asking my cousin, years ago, the same question I saw not far back in this thread: What do I need to build a computer? He said just what you said: a Phillips screwdriver (and I found a magnetic tip screwdriver worked best). After doing it once, I was comfortable with the process and have built systems for a lot of people, and almost never buy an off the shelf system anymore.

One thing I would add is that off the shelf systems are often best for the average user. They almost invariably cost less than building a comparable system yourself. They're great for email, Word, simple spreadsheet and database work, etc.

What they don't give you is exactly what you want in an HTPC. An off the shelf PC is unlikely to provide everything you might want in such a system. What I'm struck by while reading this thread is the wide variety of wants and needs for these systems. I could care less about mkv playback, but for some people it's a must-have. I don't have to have a nifty front end with DVD cover art for playing back DVD iso's. Some people do. Wired or wireless. HDMI or component. Some sort of RAID or not. Lots of encoding or none at all. We all have different needs.

What's really amazing is that renethx has all this sorted out and available for quick access, depending on what people say they want. It's a monumental job he's undertaken and he does it amazingly well. Kudos.

cenerhimself

11-28-08, 09:55 PM

Thanks for all the help!

hangar18valk

11-28-08, 11:04 PM

Create a 100GB partition for OS and applications and another partition (the rest of HD) for data (video, music or whatever). Page file is automatically assigned by Vista. So initially you don't have to worry about it.

thanks, renethx...and thanks for all of your other posts too!

timnkoo

11-29-08, 01:07 AM

Hi renethx,

I have a yamaha RX-V663 receiver that does TrueHD etc audio decoding but clips the blacks and whites to 16-? for video. So I am planning to process HD Video from the 4670 GPU directly to the HD LCD TV and was hoping to process HD audio from the MB to the receiver all via HDMI.

My question- is this possible? and a good idea? THe motherboards I'm looking at are the Asus M3N78-VM AM2+ GF8200 MB and GA-MA78GM-S2H board. OR will my GPU output HD Audio. I would rather let the receiver do the audio decoding. What is best?

Thanks- appreciate it

renethx

11-29-08, 01:59 AM

I have a yamaha RX-V663 receiver that does TrueHD etc audio decoding but clips the blacks and whites to 16-? for video. So I am planning to process HD Video from the 4670 GPU directly to the HD LCD TV and was hoping to process HD audio from the MB to the receiver all via HDMI.

My question- is this possible? and a good idea? THe motherboards I'm looking at are the Asus M3N78-VM AM2+ GF8200 MB and GA-MA78GM-S2H board. OR will my GPU output HD Audio. I would rather let the receiver do the audio decoding. What is best?

Thanks- appreciate it
Yes, you should be able to connect one of HDMI/DVI port of HD 4670 to the display (for video) and the other port to the receiver (for audio). It's a similar idea to this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13897618#post13897618). HD 4670 HDMI audio supports multichannel LPCM, DD and DTS. If you can't fix levels clipping, this would be the only solution if you like or not.

timnkoo

11-29-08, 02:13 AM

Yes, you should be able to connect one of HDMI/DVI port of HD 4670 to the display (for video) and the other port to the receiver (for audio). It's a similar idea to. HD 4670 HDMI audio supports multichannel LPCM, DD and DTS. If you can't fix levels clipping, this would be the only solution if you like or not.

So there is no MB solution for HD audio over HDMI at this stage?

renethx

11-29-08, 02:22 AM

So there is no MB solution for HD audio over HDMI at this stage?
No, if you need to feed video and audio separately. There is no onboard video that supports two digital outs at a time.

timnkoo

11-29-08, 02:37 AM

No, if you need to feed video and audio separately. There is no onboard video that supports two digital outs at a time.

Ok, cool, thanks for the info. Having read your post re splitting vid/audio via the 9600GT/8200 combo- will my plan will work flawlessly if I go the nvidia card with the 8200mb? Is this the only constraint- that the card must be nvidia?

If so, what do you recommend the best nvidia card to be in comparison to the 4670 regarding post processing, HD video playback/upscaling performance? I don't want to spend too much $$$.

renethx

11-29-08, 05:40 AM

Ok, cool, thanks for the info. Having read your post re splitting vid/audio via the 9600GT/8200 combo- will my plan will work flawlessly if I go the nvidia card with the 8200mb? Is this the only constraint- that the card must be nvidia?

If so, what do you recommend the best nvidia card to be in comparison to the 4670 regarding post processing, HD video playback/upscaling performance? I don't want to spend too much $$$.
You don't have to buy GeForce 8200/8300 and a GeForce card. I cited my post to show you the basic principle. You can use a Radeon HD 4670 with DVI+DVI or DVI+HDMI ports instead (the DVI port for the display and the other DVI [with DVI-HDMI adapter] or HDMI port for the receiver).

sneals2000

11-29-08, 06:03 AM

IOne thing I would add is that off the shelf systems are often best for the average user. They almost invariably cost less than building a comparable system yourself. They're great for email, Word, simple spreadsheet and database work, etc.

What they don't give you is exactly what you want in an HTPC. An off the shelf PC is unlikely to provide everything you might want in such a system. What I'm struck by while reading this thread is the wide variety of wants and needs for these systems. I could care less about mkv playback, but for some people it's a must-have. I don't have to have a nifty front end with DVD cover art for playing back DVD iso's. Some people do. Wired or wireless. HDMI or component. Some sort of RAID or not. Lots of encoding or none at all. We all have different needs.

What's really amazing is that renethx has all this sorted out and available for quick access, depending on what people say they want. It's a monumental job he's undertaken and he does it amazingly well. Kudos.

Yes - I totally agree on all counts. Off-the-shelf systems are better for people who don't want specialised HTPC (or server) builds and just want to buy something that works well enough. I think one of the reasons they are cheaper, other than economy of scale (and shipping costs), is software costs.

I'm sure Dell, Sony etc. don't pay the same for a Vista installation as us OEM builders do because of their scale of purchase.

The OS is often the most expensive component of my builds. Much as I admire Linux (and it is great for some applications), Vista Media Center really does do a pretty good job for me. I wish they would release TV Pack as an official small builder OEM release or as an upgrade for OEMs - as the functionality it adds for European users is vital.

timnkoo

11-29-08, 10:08 AM

You don't have to buy GeForce 8200/8300 and a GeForce card. I cited my post to show you the basic principle. You can use a Radeon HD 4670 with DVI+DVI or DVI+HDMI ports instead (the DVI port for the display and the other DVI [with DVI-HDMI adapter] or HDMI port for the receiver).

Oh ok then, so does that mean that I should be right if I use my original plan of a 8200 MB with a 4670 GPU?

If so, sorry for being a n00b :(.

Do you know if the bios will let me set individual video/audio outputs, as I have read that some do not allow this, meaning that video and audio both have to go to the gpu etc?? I am prob way off...but it is good to know

renethx

11-29-08, 10:17 AM

Oh ok then, so does that mean that I should be right if I use my original plan of a 8200 MB with a 4670 GPU?

If so, sorry for being a n00b :(.

Do you know if the bios will let me set individual video/audio outputs, as I have read that some do not allow this, meaning that video and audio both have to go to the gpu etc?? I am prob way off...but it is good to know
Yes. You can use any mb you like.

No, not necessary. Video has to go to the GPU obviously. You can select audio device, HDMI audio or onboard audio (S/PDIF or analog) from Sound dialog box in Windows. In BIOS you can enable/disable onboard audio codec.

Bonex

11-29-08, 11:59 AM

Joseph Clark

11-29-08, 08:27 PM

I have just discovered a strange behaviour when watching dvd's. I have a 4650 and I'm using cat 8.11 and PDVD 8 under XP SP2.
I was trying to calibrate the component output and noticed that I can't see the black bars using the pluge test of DVE. I can see the two inner vertical bars, but the darker one isn't there.
Is there anything I have to modify to have the video decoded correctly?

Are you using the DVI to HDMI dongle that came with the card? If so, it should force video levels and allow you to see BTB (blacker than black) levels. That should work unless you have your monitor set for "Enhanced" video levels (or whatever designation your monitor uses for PC level). If you're using just DVI, it's probably coming out at PC levels, and you won't see BTB.

This has been one of the most confusing and troublesome areas for me in using an HTPC in the past. What I absolutely love about the 4xxx series Radeon cards is that they not only have HD audio through HDMI, but they also force the signal to video level, not PC level. Since every other piece of gear I have uses video level, it makes setting brightness and contrast so much easier.

In the past, mixing PC levels (HTPC) and video levels (Dish 622) made life more complicated. When I was using a Lumagen HDP, I could set inputs and output separately. I could tell it that my HTPC was coming in at PC levels, the 622 was using video levels, and the Lumagen was to output all signals at video levels, which is where I had my projector set. The problem was that my Lumagen doesn't work with 1080p60 signals from the PC, and I didn't like using interlaced output from the PC. So, I took the Lumagen out of the loop. I almost bought one of the new DVDO Edge video processors to handle modest differences in brightness, contrast and color between my sources, but it's controls in those areas were too course (from every report I read). I decided against it.

The point is that you may be wrestling with similar issues, depending on your sources. Trying to mix PC and video levels can be a bear, depending on your setup.

jheyerman

11-29-08, 09:50 PM

Posted this in the DG45ID thread, but no responses. Thought I'd try here...

I have built my box with DG45ID, E7200, 2Gb ram, 1TB GP drive, LG Blu-ray writer, Silverstone GD02 case, Vista Home Prem, 32bit. The HTPC is connected to my Pany prof. plasma (720P) via HDMI... Now that it is done and working, I have some noob questions:

i) I have an HDMI switching surround sound rec'vr (Cambridge Audio 340R), but it does not process the HDMI audio. I have a 5.1 speaker set-up. Is it recommended to connect to my rec'vr via SPDIF or the analog outputs of the MB to 5.1 direct in?

ii) Ideally I would like to select and play music w/o turning on the display. Is there a good remote that allows that (simple display that works with MCE?). I have seen some stuff on the sideshow remotes, but I don't think any are actually for sale yet? Plus don't want to spend that much...

iii) I am planning to set-up OTA HD... I don't have cable or satellite. What is a good tuner card? And can I watch one channel well recording another with just one antenna feed?

Thanks for any insight!
Jeff

Lostclusters

11-30-08, 01:32 AM

renethx

11-30-08, 03:18 AM

I have a HD HTPC, of sorts, that I use to play HD and SD media files to my plasma TV via an A/V receiver with expensive upconverting components. My problem is that the video card in my HTPC is preventing the receiver from doing the upconverting of SD movies by supplying it with a constant 1080p resolution. I have tried fiddling around with the video settings but it seems that there is no way to set it so that the movie sets the resolution. I use a Nvida video card. Has anyone figured out how to do this properly?
The following information may be helpful:

- The graphics card/TV/receiver model number
- driver version
- OS
- connection method (HDMI, component)

Did you try custom resolution?

theclear

11-30-08, 04:50 AM

renethx

11-30-08, 05:58 AM

Hi renethx, u advise me to get His 4670 IceQ, cause of performance and low noise , so i read a lot of reviews and come up to this one (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_4670_IceQ_Turbo/25.html) that show up that Powercolor 4670 is noticeable quieter than His 4670, that made a great choice for a quieter HTPC
Thanks for the heads-up. Two users reported flickering problem in the second monitor in the dual display setting (here (http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=50039&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=90)). It's hard to resist HIS' exhaust fan. :) But quietness is more important for HTPC. I will try to get the card and test it.

rmmeli

11-30-08, 09:48 AM

How do people integrate media card readers into their htpc's. Are there any cases that can accommodate them or do people use external readers?

renethx

11-30-08, 09:51 AM

How do people integrate media card readers into their htpc's. Are there any cases that can accommodate them or do people use external readers?
Check the case section at page 1 (outdated though). You will find several cases that comes with card readers.

dbone1026

11-30-08, 11:28 AM

sneals2000

11-30-08, 12:38 PM

How do people integrate media card readers into their htpc's. Are there any cases that can accommodate them or do people use external readers?

Some of the Silverstone cases have a hidden 3.5" external floppy slot, which would neatly accommodate a card reader unit. It isn't something I personally do that often - and when I need to I'm happy to connect a USB external reader.

Lostclusters

11-30-08, 01:22 PM

I have a HD HTPC, of sorts, that I use to play HD and SD media files to my plasma TV via an A/V receiver with expensive upconverting components. My problem is that the video card in my HTPC is preventing the receiver from doing the upconverting of SD movies by supplying it with a constant 1080p resolution. I have tried fiddling around with the video settings but it seems that there is no way to set it so that the movie sets the resolution. I use a Nvida video card. Has anyone figured out how to do this properly?

The following information may be helpful:

- The graphics card/TV/receiver model number
8800 GTX, Panasonic TH-50PZ85U, Denon 5308

- driver version
178.24

- OS
XP

- connection method (HDMI, component)
PC to Receiver - DVI to HDMI
Receiver to TV - HDMI to HDMI

Did you try custom resolution?
No. The description of this did not seem like what I was look for.

DJWikiera

11-30-08, 01:35 PM

I have a HD HTPC, of sorts, that I use to play HD and SD media files to my plasma TV via an A/V receiver with expensive upconverting components. My problem is that the video card in my HTPC is preventing the receiver from doing the upconverting of SD movies by supplying it with a constant 1080p resolution. I have tried fiddling around with the video settings but it seems that there is no way to set it so that the movie sets the resolution. I use a Nvida video card. Has anyone figured out how to do this properly?

Can't be done. No DVD player software is written to take control of your graphics card to change resolution. You have to change the PC to a lower resolution(480i) to allow your reciever to upscale.

Lostclusters

11-30-08, 02:46 PM

Can't be done. No DVD player software is written to take control of your graphics card to change resolution. You have to change the PC to a lower resolution(480i) to allow your reciever to upscale.

I was beginning to think the same thing myself. I tried one (movie) that way and the desktop on my plasma became scrollable, about two inches on all sides. I could not move the mouse cursor off the screen without scrolling the plasma to the right moving the cursor to the left. Oh, btw, I forgot to mention that I am using a dual display setup. The other is a 28" Viewsonic LCD monitor set at 1920x1200.

Smitty2k1

11-30-08, 03:14 PM

Does anyone know of a way to turn on your HTPC without having to manually press the power button? I plan on building a second HTPC that I want to put in my AV cabinet that I keep closed. Once on I will have no problem using the HTPC with the cabinet closed (I have the diNovo Mini which is Bluetooth. I also have the Logitech 890 with RF that I could use). My goal is to be able to access all my equipment without needing to open the cabinet doors and right now the HTPC is the only one where I would have to manually press power...

Well a lot of cases with built in IR sensors will allow you to turn on/off the computer. However you then have the problem that IR can't go through walls (or doors). They make devices which change RF signals into IR signals to send to the IR receiver on the inside of a door. For this you will need an RF remote, the aformentioned adapter and an IR sensor.

I would suggest you instead just use the sleep button on your DiNovo to put the computer into a sleep state instead of power on/off.

Edit: I just saw you already have an RF remote. Just get one of those RF-IR things.

Reku

11-30-08, 05:51 PM

I am curious why you would recommend a video card on the HTPC when using newer boards with integrated graphics designed for HTPC use. Is this for people who plan to game on these computers? I just priced out a build for an HTPC to replace my aged P4 3.0 system and it does not use a separate graphics card. I plan to use it for watching backed up dvds, bluray (mkvs), listening to music, and some basic console emulation. I saw the case on another thread in AVS and love it's simplistic design. As I already have a USB-UIRT device, I thought this system would work well.

Mobo - Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H (I can only find this on Newegg at the moment with no discount or free shipping)
Processor - Intel E8400 (Should I downgrade to the 7200? The 8400 is only $40 more so I figured the upgrade is worth it since I will not OC)(also wondered if I should buy a cpu cooler to replace the stock cooler)
Ram Corsair TWIN2X4096-6400C5 (got these for an unbelievable deal on Friday)
Bluray - GGC-H20LK - OEM
Case - PC-C37B-MUSE http://www.lian-li.com/v2/tw/flashpage/c37/

I had a few Samsung 500gb sata drives and a Thermaltake 430 (TR2-430NP) PSU lying unused so those will go in as well. The case does allow a full size PSU, but can only use low profile graphics cards. I am already over budget on what I wanted to spend and was hoping this build would accomplish what was needed...a quiet, but powerful media pc that will not be used for any gaming past PS1 technology.

usenet4life

11-30-08, 06:13 PM

greetings all,

I am looking at the recommended systems, and have a concern, the case Antec Fusion Remote Black has the cutout for all the motherboard ports on the back however the motherboards do not have the same profile outlines to match with the case. So do you just knock out that plate from the case and leave a gaping hole?

DJWikiera

11-30-08, 06:25 PM

Reku,

The cpu cooler that comes with the E8400 is pretty quiet compaired to a E6750, you may not need to upgrade. If you do I used http://www.jdoqocy.com/image-3136390-10521304this (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3136390-10521304?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct .aspx%3FItem%3DN82E16835103041). It just clears and overhangs the northbridge heat sink of the GA-E7AUM-DS2H a little bit, helps keep it nice and cool. It is low profile and would fir your case nicely.

DJWikiera

11-30-08, 06:27 PM

renethx

11-30-08, 07:08 PM

I am curious why you would recommend a video card on the HTPC when using newer boards with integrated graphics designed for HTPC use. Is this for people who plan to game on these computers?
Exactly.

AlienAgenda

11-30-08, 09:34 PM

CPU: 8500 Wolfdale at 3.1Ghz
GPU: Gigabyte HD4850
MB: Asus P5Q-E
4G of RAM...

small capacity local sata with WHS at 4TB for network storage.
case and rest generics....

since this IS a dedicated HTPC, am i overkilling it?
i have a gaming rig and always think in terms of game play vs. HT.

dont know that much has changed since you highly recommended this configuration, but i thought i would run this setup by you for your thoughts of any changes...

BluRay and other HD sources are my goal via. VMC. may use XBMC later if they clean up their playback or allow for offloading.

thanks and thanks for this thread, very very useful.

Reku

11-30-08, 09:49 PM

Thank you for the quick reply and the suggestion on cpu cooler. I will try out the stock and switch if it is not quiet enough. I am starting to get excited about the project, it has been a few years since my last build. Not really looking forward to the OS tweaking though. Took ages to get the backup formats playable through Vista last time.

iLLNiSS

11-30-08, 10:04 PM

mthomtech

12-01-08, 02:47 AM

I built a HTPC w/ Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H MB, 2 GB RAM, Radeon HD 3200, Vista x64.

My home setup includes audio/video distribution to multiple TV's. My dilema comes in selecting the audio outputs. My home theater would use the digital out, but the audio distributed to any of the other TV's is 2-channel. Usually this setup is fine with DVD players and such because they have a simultaneous 2-channel and digital audio outputs, so I can use both. I just assumed I could do the same on the PC.

Is there anyway to get simultaneous 2-channel and digital audio output from this mobo? I thought I would be able to use the headphone out for the 2-channel, but no luck yet. I can switch back-and-forth between 2-ch and digital out ... but going to the PC each time defeats the purpose of have the "hands-off" audio/video distribution.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated ...

renethx

12-01-08, 09:27 AM

renethx

12-01-08, 10:42 AM

Is there anyway to get simultaneous 2-channel and digital audio output from this mobo? I thought I would be able to use the headphone out for the 2-channel, but no luck yet. I can switch back-and-forth between 2-ch and digital out ... but going to the PC each time defeats the purpose of have the "hands-off" audio/video distribution.
No, afaik. Switching sound device can be done by a hotkey.

AlienAgenda

12-01-08, 11:04 AM

High-end system is actually intended for HTPC with extra works such as gaming (hence more powerful CPU and GPU). For a pure video playback system, even a low-end system (or mid-range sytem for better hardware post-processing) is enough.

this new pc will be for HT only. i spent the weeked attempting to get my single core 3800+ with 7800GTX card to playback some 1080p mkv and its not going to happen.

i setup a vista ultimate build on a e6850 with a 8800GT - my gaming rig - and it did okay with a 1080p.mkv, but left the cpu at 50-60% the whole time. mkv files apparently dont use hardware acceleration. i used the same source as a wmv and the cpu stayed at 8-10%...

i digress.

correct me if i am incorrect, but i assume i should buy at least a CD2 at 3Ghz minimum if i intend to play mkv's at times? but could i still have the desired results with a low end mb 9integrated graphics) with the higher end CPU?

Axel

12-01-08, 11:56 AM

No, afaik. Switching sound device can be done by a hotkey.

Sounds very intriguing. Can you please elaborate how one could do this?

TIA!
____
Axel

phrozenfayte

12-01-08, 12:34 PM

G'day from Australia! Long time reader, first time writer here looking for some advice on building my first (kinda) HTPC.

For the last 8 years i've been using a modified XBOX 1 console with enhanced hardware for all my media center needs, and to put it bluntly... it doesn't cut it anymore. Not to mention the hardware is slowly starting to fail on it. If you're not familiar with the system its a single core 733 mhz system with 64mb of shared gddr ram with a nvidia geforce 3 equivalent with fully programmable shaders. The XBMC software used to run it (which is now available for a variety of operating systems) has literally pushed the machine to its max.

Its capable of playing just about every known format under the sun with decent post processing, but the processing power of the unit cannot handle any of the newer x264 encoded movies. Audio is supplied through 5.1 S/PDIF to a 5.1 Logitech system (Z5500, Dolby Digital, DTS, DTS 96/24, and PCM 96/24). It'll play most any standard divx encoded movie or dvd source quite happily.

So basically, its not enough. I have huge caveats with the system.

- Uses a lot of power constantly (300 or so watts playing movies, 250 idle)
- Not enough storage space (250gig with little option to upgrade)
- Extremely slow (boot up, hard drive loading, caching of movies, skip speed, ability to play harder to decode files, dvd speed, transfer speed [ftp protocol, 2-5mb/sec], everything is too slow)
- Cant do anything else with it (games, torrents, surfing the net, etc)
- No Next Gen (bluray, hd-dvd and all associated codecs)
- No HD (1080i with an adapter but apparently its extremely slow and struggles with dvds)
- Large, heavy, clunky
- No extras or even options for extras (wireless capability, ability to upgrade, post processing options, futureproofing, nothing).

So i'm finally taking the plunge and buying a whole new HTPC. Bought a LA40A550 40 inch Series 5 Samsung 1080p HDTV to start the whole system. I already have the Logitech Z5500's and im extremely happy with them, clear crisp with booming bass, so that'll be the rest of the setup.

From lurking the forums i've managed to put together this idea:

CPU: AMD 4850e
MOBO: Asus M3A78-EM
GFX: HIS 4670 Turbo IceQ
OPTICAL: LG GGC-H20L
CASE: Antec Fusion Remote Black
RAM: 2gig A-Data DDR2 800
HDD: WD GP 1TB SATA HDD

My needs for this system include light gaming (World of Warcraft @ medium settings, emulators and the such for older console games and web games), being able to fully play Bluray movies, h264 mkv's, anything older with decent upscaling and post processing, torrenting and some light encoding if i get bored. I want it to be able to push out full analog 5.1 surround sound as well as S/PDIF. I want the option to be able to use the HDMI cable as my 5.1 sound carrier, but at the moment my HDMI 1.2 TV can only do stereo. Gigabit Ethernet is preferable, although not necessary.

I'm not entirely sure on the processor vs the GFX card, whether one or the other is overkill or not enough. I've stopped following the market and I cant really range where that would be in terms of speed/power efficiency.

I'd like to be able to watch/record TV on it, but right now its not completely necessary. Upgrade path would be fantastic, just for it to be able to support the AVerTV pcie card.

Power efficiency is a must, as the system will likely be on 24/7 and silence would be preferable. Right now my xbox screams like a banshee and there's nothing i hate more than a loud pc. I hear really good things about the Fusion Remote Black case, but have no idea what custom fan to use on the CPU. Im also not entirely sure what power supply i need either for the machine, a quiet cool one would be preferable with a little stretching room for perhaps a Xonar and AVerTV card.

So to dot point my long and boring post, i'm looking for help and advice on the following:

- HTPC with light gaming/power efficiency/silence/cost on the mind
- Right CPU? too much? too little?
- Any ideas on a PSU?
- Enough room inside the case for the 2 pcie cards? another hard drive maybe?
- Good/Bad/Yes/No? Any comments or advice? I don't want to end up with my machine only to find it wont do what i want it, or it suffers a lot from poor judgement!

I'd also like to thank in advance the many people in the forum answering questions for noobies like myself, especially Renethx for being such an incredible source of information, and being so incredibly helpful!

walterg74

12-01-08, 12:46 PM

No, if you need to feed video and audio separately. There is no onboard video that supports two digital outs at a time.

Hi Renethx!

In my case, all the A/V/Gaming stuff I have so far, come out with HDMI, and I plug that into my 7.1 receiver wich has HDMI passthrough (it does process the sound, and passes the signal on to the display to get the image there too).

In this case, for an HTPC, could I do the same thing having just a single HDMI output? I've been looking at an Intel motherboard with G45 chipset, and it says it has HDMI output, is that correct? Is this a good solution, or would I be better with another option?

Thanx!!

archibael

12-01-08, 01:41 PM

For gaming? I like the G45 for home theater, but if I were you I'd get a discrete card for serious gaming.

MSmith83

12-01-08, 04:40 PM

My last PC build was in 2005, and it was a $3,000 machine oriented towards gaming. Now, I am planning on building a quiet HTPC centered around Blu-ray viewing, mass storage and general multitasking. For audio, my idea is to get up to 7.1 PCM audio sent to my Denon AVR-4306 over HDMI. I'm waiting for better BD recorder drives to become available, but I have the rest of the system planned and will use my current DVD drive for the time being.

My question is this: Is the system below overkill for my planned needs? It's already cheap, but cutting any unnecessary costs is a good thing.

Also, am I overlooking anything? Should I consider getting a 64-bit Windows OS instead of 32-bit?

Case: SilverStone Grandia GD02
Motherboard: Asus P5Q-EM
CPU: INTEL Core 2 Duo E7300 2.66 GHz 1066 MHz Socket 775 3MB
CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT01-E w/ Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
Memory: CORSAIR TWIN2X4096-8500C5D 4GB PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066)
Power Supply: Corsair HX Series CMPSU-620HX 620W Power Supply
Hard Drives: 2 x SEAGATE Barracuda 7200.11 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB
3.5” Multimedia Drive: Scythe KAMA READER 2 45-in-1 Card Reader
OS: MICROSOFT Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit

renethx

12-02-08, 05:53 AM

i setup a vista ultimate build on a e6850 with a 8800GT - my gaming rig - and it did okay with a 1080p.mkv, but left the cpu at 50-60% the whole time. mkv files apparently dont use hardware acceleration. i used the same source as a wmv and the cpu stayed at 8-10%...

i digress.

correct me if i am incorrect, but i assume i should buy at least a CD2 at 3Ghz minimum if i intend to play mkv's at times? but could i still have the desired results with a low end mb 9integrated graphics) with the higher end CPU?
Hardware Acceleration OFF (ffdshow Video Decoder)

The picture below was captured when a mkv file was played without hardware acceleration. Max CPU usage is around 70%.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=125672&stc=1&d=1228215064

- Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.5GHz 2MB L2 cache
- GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mATX
- DDR2-800 2 x 1GB
- Vista 32
- MPC-HC with ffdshow Video Decoder and madFlac Decoder
- Mkv file created from Blu-ray Spider-Man 3, chapter 44 (max bitrate around 36Mbps) with FLAC audio track encoded from Dolby TrueHD

So a low-end system is enough. If you want to make sure, you can go with a faster processor (E7xxx or E8xxx).

Hardware Acceleration ON (MPC Video Decoder)

If GPU hardware acceleration is used, max CPU usage is around 33%.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=125673&stc=1&d=1228219647

gfortune1961

12-02-08, 07:31 AM

dbone1026

12-02-08, 08:18 AM

Well a lot of cases with built in IR sensors will allow you to turn on/off the computer. However you then have the problem that IR can't go through walls (or doors). They make devices which change RF signals into IR signals to send to the IR receiver on the inside of a door. For this you will need an RF remote, the aformentioned adapter and an IR sensor.

I would suggest you instead just use the sleep button on your DiNovo to put the computer into a sleep state instead of power on/off.

Edit: I just saw you already have an RF remote. Just get one of those RF-IR things.

As I had mentioned earlier I want to be able to power on my HTPC from a remote, so getting a case with a built in IR sensor may do the trick. Anyone have any recommendations on a case with the IR sensor built in, I am looking for preferably a Micro ATX case, and has to be horizontal for my A/V Rack ( I think the Antec Fusion 430 has a bulit in IR).

AlienAgenda

12-02-08, 09:32 AM

excellent! thanks again for all your work. you make most of our lives a bit easier.

sneals2000

12-02-08, 09:55 AM

As I had mentioned earlier I want to be able to power on my HTPC from a remote, so getting a case with a built in IR sensor may do the trick. Anyone have any recommendations on a case with the IR sensor built in, I am looking for preferably a Micro ATX case, and has to be horizontal for my A/V Rack ( I think the Antec Fusion 430 has a bulit in IR).

The Fusion range have built-in IR receivers (and now come bundled with a remote control and not a PSU - in the UK at least!)

With the right connections (Case switch to VFD/LCD, VFD/LCD connections to motherboard power switch header) it is possible to get the Fusion to switch on from the remote.

renethx

12-02-08, 10:03 AM

Can you please elaborate how one could do this?
Download and install AutoHotkey (http://www.autohotkey.com/). Suppose you have three sound playback devices below:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=125682&stc=1&d=1228229552

Copy and paste the following script in NotePad and save it as, for example, Sound Device.ahk.

SetKeyDelay 750

#1::
Run rundll32.exe Shell32.dll`,Control_RunDLL Mmsys.cpl`,`,0
WinWait Sound
Send {Down}
Send !s
Send {Enter}
Return

#2::
Run rundll32.exe Shell32.dll`,Control_RunDLL Mmsys.cpl`,`,0
WinWait Sound
Send {Down 2}
Send !s
Send {Enter}
Return

#3::
Run rundll32.exe Shell32.dll`,Control_RunDLL Mmsys.cpl`,`,0
WinWait Sound
Send {Down 3}
Send !s
Send {Enter}
Return

"#1" means the hotkey Windows Logo+1 that selects NVIDIA HDMI Output. The second hotkey Windows Logo+2 selects Speakers and the third Realtek Digital Output. Of course you can assign any hotkey to each of them. Please read the Help file to see the meaning of each command. Right-click it and click "Run Script". Now you are ready.

I added the line "SetKeyDelay 750" to make key strokes slow down (750 milliseconds between two adjacent key strokes). You can remove it.

WR7

12-02-08, 11:14 AM

Hi,

Great thread here lots of info.

I used it to build ( try anyway) aamd htpc based on 4850e/ma780gpm.

I ran into constant problems, usb bsods. Changed all the parts and have finally sent it all back as it stopped powering up.

I then ordered a 8400/asus 730i setup but came across another thread on avs about nvidia chipset issues over heating etc (on the official asus p5n7a thread here) and that has put me of that so have cancelled the order.

Im a bit lost now as to what to buy.

already have 2 dvbs cards/ hdds/ memory/cooling and antec case, just need to pick a mobo and cpu.

Need it for 1080p playback within vmc so will be using coreavc as I believe vmc doesnt support dxva ( am i right?) as well as doing a very small amount of avchd video editing from my hd camcorder. I also would like it to be as efficient as possible.

I have dedicated bluray / hddvd players so not concerned about hd audio etc. dd5.1/dts is good enough wma pro ( ddlive) is a bonus.

This is all being connected to a onkyo 605 and a optoma hd75.

Any suggestions?:confused:

sneals2000

12-02-08, 11:41 AM

I'm hoping to try the Gigabyte uATX nVidia 9400 motherboard - though I'm prepared to fit a better Northbridge cooler if I have to...

I built a 4850e/MA78GM-S2H based HTPC in the summer - and it has been pretty reliable - but want to improve the audio (multichannel PCM not just 2.0/DD/DTS) and de-interlacing/post-processing, and get better 1080/24p output.

Think I'm about to start the ball rolling on this - will let people know how I go.

Just got to decide on a case...

Silversone LC11, GD02 or Lian Li PC36 or 37 look to be possible candidates. Silverstone has the edge at the moment (as they both offer full-height PCI cards)

richie0701

12-02-08, 02:23 PM

MurrayW

12-02-08, 03:22 PM

I think I'm going to use a Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H to build my HTPC. I think everything it says on the tin is good enough for me (mainly Audio/Video playback with BluRay and 7.1 via MPCM). I have no need for a gaming machine so the on board video meets my needs.

Is this still the recommended option?

Does it output 7.1 over HDMI as MPCM?

How do I go about getting an RS-232? Would I need an expansion card? I need an RS-232 as I will use the PC to mess with settings on my RX-V2700.

Cheers

RichieYou could get an internal card or use an external usb-serial device also.

sneals2000

12-02-08, 05:08 PM

I think I'm going to use a Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H to build my HTPC. I think everything it says on the tin is good enough for me (mainly Audio/Video playback with BluRay and 7.1 via MPCM). I have no need for a gaming machine so the on board video meets my needs.

Is this still the recommended option?

Does it output 7.1 over HDMI as MPCM?

How do I go about getting an RS-232? Would I need an expansion card? I need an RS-232 as I will use the PC to mess with settings on my RX-V2700.

Cheers

Richie

Looks like you just need a serial header to RS232 cable. The online spec states that the motherboard has a motherboard header for serial connectivity.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2946&ProductName=GA-E7AUM-DS2H

renethx

12-02-08, 07:17 PM

So to dot point my long and boring post, i'm looking for help and advice on the following:

- HTPC with light gaming/power efficiency/silence/cost on the mind
- Right CPU? too much? too little?
- Any ideas on a PSU?
- Enough room inside the case for the 2 pcie cards? another hard drive maybe?
- Good/Bad/Yes/No? Any comments or advice? I don't want to end up with my machine only to find it wont do what i want it, or it suffers a lot from poor judgement!
- Core 2 Duo E7xxx
- GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mATX
- DDR2-800 2 x 1GB
- Video: onboard (add something later if necessary)
- Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX
- Antec Fusion Remote Black

Comments

- Low-end processor is weak in encoding, although mid-range is not fast enough (you really need a quad-core).
- GIGABYTE board supports Dolby Digital Live so that you won't need analog.
- If you are sure onboard graphics is not enough for your games, you should go with a discrete card such as HD 4670. Then you can choose AMD platform, e.g. Phenom X3 or X4 with GA-MA78GM-S2HP (supporting DTS Connect).

renethx

12-02-08, 07:25 PM

In my case, all the A/V/Gaming stuff I have so far, come out with HDMI, and I plug that into my 7.1 wichiver wich passthroughssthrough (it does process the sound, and passes the signal on to the display to get the image there too).

In this case, for an HTPC, could I do the same thing having just a single HDMI output? I've been looking at an Intel motherboard with G45 chipset, and it says it has HDMI output, is that correct? Is this a good solution, or would I be better with another option?
Yes G45 has HDMI out (for both video and 7.1 audio), as well as GeForce 9300/9400. The latter is better than the former in gaming. But if you want good gaming performance, you should go with a discrete graphics card such as Radeon HD 4670/4850/4870.

renethx

12-02-08, 07:46 PM

My question is this: Is the system below overkill for my planned needs? It's already cheap, but cutting any unnecessary costs is a good thing.

Also, am I overlooking anything? Should I consider getting a 64-bit Windows OS instead of 32-bit?

Case: SilverStone Grandia GD02
Motherboard: Asus P5Q-EM
CPU: INTEL Core 2 Duo E7300 2.66 GHz 1066 MHz Socket 775 3MB
CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT01-E w/ Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
Memory: CORSAIR TWIN2X4096-8500C5D 4GB PC2-8500 (DDR2-1066)
Power Supply: Corsair HX Series CMPSU-620HX 620W Power Supply
Hard Drives: 2 x SEAGATE Barracuda 7200.11 1TB SATA 7200 RPM 32MB
3.5” Multimedia Drive: Scythe KAMA READER 2 45-in-1 Card Reader
OS: MICROSOFT Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit
- Another choice of mb is GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mATX (IMO better than P5Q-EM in graphics performance).
- TWIN2X4096-8500C5D ($79 after rebate) is overkill. A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB ($43) is enough.
- CMPSU-620HX is overkill. 450W is enough. (Your system consumes 150W at most unless you add a high-end graphics card.)
- 32-bit is in general better for video playback in that more codecs are available.
- GD02 user review here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=994708). (A very tight space between HDDs and PSU.)

renethx

12-02-08, 08:14 PM

My current setup includes an Intel dual core X6800, 8800GTX, IDT High definition Codec (sound integrated on an Intel D975XBX motherboard) using XP Pro SP3. I connect an DVI-D cable to the BenQ FP91 GP monitor. I connect my Motherboard ethernet cable to a Linksys WRT160N router. The router is connected to d-link switch and can connect to my Denon 5308CI for music streaming capability via Ethernet, and via USB for connection to other digital media players and hard drives. The Denon 5308CI is connected via HDMI to my HD pioneer TV.

I wish to continue to use my computer as my HTPC and was was wondering how I could modify this to use it as a PVR and to add an Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive Model GGW-H20L, with AnyDVD?
- IMO using S/PDIF with 5308CI is a waste of money. Sell GeForce 8800 GTX and buy Radeon HD 4850 that offers the same 3D performance and supports 7.1 LPCM through HDMI. Or buy a HDMI sound card (ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 is still immature and Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD is not available yet, however).
- Add HDTV tuner(s) such as AVerTV Combo PCIe or HDHomeRun. If you want to record premium contents, use Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212 (read the TV tuner section (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972#TV)).
- Add software applications such as MediaPortal (front end), TotalMedia Theater (for BD playback) and Media Player Classic HomeCinema (for media files).

renethx

12-02-08, 08:22 PM

I then ordered a 8400/asus 730i setup but came across another thread on avs about nvidia chipset issues over heating etc (on the official asus p5n7a thread here) and that has put me of that so have cancelled the order.

Im a bit lost now as to what to buy.

already have 2 dvbs cards/ hdds/ memory/cooling and antec case, just need to pick a mobo and cpu.

Need it for 1080p playback within vmc so will be using coreavc as I believe vmc doesnt support dxva ( am i right?) as well as doing a very small amount of avchd video editing from my hd camcorder. I also would like it to be as efficient as possible.

I have dedicated bluray / hddvd players so not concerned about hd audio etc. dd5.1/dts is good enough wma pro ( ddlive) is a bonus.

This is all being connected to a onkyo 605 and a optoma hd75.

Any suggestions?:confused:
Buy GA-E7AUM-DS2H. I haven't seen overheating problem (see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15136042#post15136042)).

BTW CoreAVC does not support DXVA either.

renethx

12-02-08, 08:28 PM

Is this still the recommended option?

Does it output 7.1 over HDMI as MPCM?

How do I go about getting an RS-232? Would I need an expansion card? I need an RS-232 as I will use the PC to mess with settings on my RX-V2700.
Yes.

Yes.

You can use DB9M Serial Add-A-Port Adapter with Bracket for Intel Motherboards (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=908&sku=28300) for the internal COM port.

dbone1026

12-02-08, 08:44 PM

My current HTPC has the GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP and Athlon X2 4850e. I also just purchased the ASUS 4670 which I haven't had a chance to install yet. I use this HTPC strictly for media playback (especially Blu Ray/1080p MKV/HD content), no gaming, and I do all my ripping/encoding on a separate PC. All my media conent is streamed via wired from my HP MediaSmart Server to the HTPC. Two quick questions:

1) I see some builds use the Phenom X3 8750 over the Athlon 4850e. What would the benefits be, if any, of going with the Phenom over the 4850e, given how I use my HTPC?

2) I am running Vista x64 with 4GB RAM. Once again, given how I am using my HTPC, would there be any benefit to upgrading to 8GB RAM?

I would not plan on changing any of the components in my current HTPC, but I am planning on building a second one so I thought I would see if there were any "upgrades" that I should consider (this HTPC would be used the same way as my first HTPC)

phrozenfayte

12-02-08, 08:56 PM

- Core 2 Duo E7xxx
- GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mATX
- DDR2-800 2 x 1GB
- Video: onboard (add something later if necessary)
- Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX
- Antec Fusion Remote Black

Comments

- Low-end processor is weak in encoding, although mid-range is not fast enough (you really need a quad-core).
- GIGABYTE board supports Dolby Digital Live so that you won't need analog.
- If you are sure onboard graphics is not enough for your games, you should go with a discrete card such as HD 4670. Then you can choose AMD platform, e.g. Phenom X3 or X4 with GA-MA78GM-S2HP (supporting DTS Connect).

Thank you for your time Renethx! Im not really that fussed about the encoding, if it takes 5 hours to do a single movie, i've got the time. However whats recently interested me is this new ATI Stream technology they're set to release next month. Stream (it seems i'm not allowed to post URL's till i make more posts, first result on a google search for "ATI Stream") seems to be gpu assisted software. According to the article they were able to increase the encoding speed of ATI's Avivo encoder by 17x. While most of that might be fluff, and the last time I remember using the Avivo encoder it was extremely basic and limited, I've recently read an article about how ArcSoft and Cyberlink upgraded their software to support this new technology. Unfortunately I cant seem to find the article, but it is an interesting read.

This is kinda why i've been veering towards a discrete graphics card on the ATI/AMD side of things. I've been an amd/ati fan in the past, and they've generally let me down time and time again (lol), but i heard quite good things from the latest generation of ATI at least. Im not too sure on how useful a 3rd core on my CPU will be with general use computing, considering most games wont use it and im not entirely sure if decoding/encoding applications will utilize it, especially with stream.

What are your thoughts on the tech?

renethx

12-02-08, 09:25 PM

renethx

12-02-08, 09:48 PM

Thank you for your time Renethx! Im not really that fussed about the encoding, if it takes 5 hours to do a single movie, i've got the time. However whats recently interested me is this new ATI Stream technology they're set to release next month. Stream (it seems i'm not allowed to post URL's till i make more posts, first result on a google search for "ATI Stream") seems to be gpu assisted software. According to the article they were able to increase the encoding speed of ATI's Avivo encoder by 17x. While most of that might be fluff, and the last time I remember using the Avivo encoder it was extremely basic and limited, I've recently read an article about how ArcSoft and Cyberlink upgraded their software to support this new technology. Unfortunately I cant seem to find the article, but it is an interesting read.

This is kinda why i've been veering towards a discrete graphics card on the ATI/AMD side of things. I've been an amd/ati fan in the past, and they've generally let me down time and time again (lol), but i heard quite good things from the latest generation of ATI at least. Im not too sure on how useful a 3rd core on my CPU will be with general use computing, considering most games wont use it and im not entirely sure if decoding/encoding applications will utilize it, especially with stream.

What are your thoughts on the tech?
There will be only a limited number of ATI Stream enabled applications at least initially (only PowerDirector at first as for encoding?). Perhaps it takes a bit longer time to see a bunch of good encoding applications that enable these new technologies (ATI Stream or CUDA or Intel's upcoming equivalent).

walterg74

12-02-08, 10:26 PM

Yes G45 has HDMI out (for both video and 7.1 audio), as well as GeForce 9300/9400. The latter is better than the former in gaming. But if you want good gaming performance, you should go with a discrete graphics card such as Radeon HD 4670/4850/4870.

Thanks for your reply!!!

In this case, the idea is to build the htpc just for ht (video playpack, music ,etc.).

I see there are a lot of recommendations, is there any reason to choose any particular option over another in regards to chipset/motherboards/etc?
I read somewhere around here that the G45 was recommended, but on other sites I see poor reviews for it, which confuses me some. One motherboard I saw was the Intel DG45ID, which says has X4500HD.
I have access to a limited amount of motherboard brands/models, so I'm trying to find something thas recommended and would work fine and that I can get.

What's the best choice between intel, amd, nvidia, etc for chipsets? (again, all in regard to building a pc that performs excellent for video playback, but I don't care/wont use it for gaming).

Also, what exactly is the "post processing" tasks that are done on video playing?

Thanks!!!!

renethx

12-02-08, 10:39 PM

I see there are a lot of recommendations, is there any reason to choose any particular option over another in regards to chipset/motherboards/etc?
I read somewhere around here that the G45 was recommended, but on other sites I see poor reviews for it, which confuses me some. One motherboard I saw was the Intel DG45ID, which says has X4500HD.
I have access to a limited amount of motherboard brands/models, so I'm trying to find something thas recommended and would work fine and that I can get.

What's the best choice between intel, amd, nvidia, etc for chipsets? (again, all in regard to building a pc that performs excellent for video playback, but I don't care/wont use it for gaming).

Also, what exactly is the "post processing" tasks that are done on video playing?

Thanks!!!!
If you are not sure what to choose, go for the mATX, low-end, Intel/NVIDIA. GeForce 9400 is the best IGP right now. Or the mATX, low-end, AMD/AMD. HD 4550 outperforms every IGP. Post-processing is tasks done after decode, including deinterlacing, denoise, detail enhancement, image scaling etc. These are mostly related to SD contents.

walterg74

12-03-08, 05:26 AM

renethx

12-03-08, 05:45 AM

sneals2000

12-03-08, 06:00 AM

So the best being currently the 9400, does that mean that it has full hardware decoding for all the current formats and also the possibility of outputting 7.1 audio? Any boards that have all this and hdmi?

The 9300 and 9400 series will do full hardware acceleration of VC-1/H264 and MPEG2 in HD - as will the 780G HD3200 boards and a couple of others (8200/8300 and Intel 45 boards?) I believe the de-interlacing performance of 9300/9400 solutions is the best (or one of the best) of the IGPs? The 780G solutions only output PCM2.0 or DD/DTS5.1 via HDMI - no PCM5.1/7.1.

The nVidia solution is apparently better with 24p output if you have a 24p-capable display - as ATI solutions apparently still stutter?

Gigabyte do a 9400 based motherboard GA-E7AUM-DS2H with HDMI output. I'm considering a build based on this motherboard.

sneals2000

12-03-08, 06:04 AM

renethx

12-03-08, 08:14 AM

So the HD4550 outperforms a 9400-based IGP solution? Is this just in SD post-processing (noise reduction etc.)? Would I be as well served installing an HD4550 in my 4850e/780G current set-up rather than building a new 9400-IGP box (and relegating the 780G one to a secondary location?) Is the HD4550 solution that bad at 24p?

Does the 9400 de-interlace SD and HD as effectively as the 4550 (ignoring other post-processing stuff)? 3:2 doesn't worry me as I don't watch much 60i content - but 2:2 50i and 50i native content IS important to me as I watch a lot of European SD and HD TV shot 50i and 25p.

Also - how easy is it to change frame rates with the nVidia drivers/control centre? In Catalyst I can have hot keys to switch between 50p, 60p and 24p. Am I going to have to delve into scripts that open control panels to do this with nVidia stuff?
As for HD/SD deinterlacing and cadence detection (all sorts of, 2:2, 2:2:2:4, 5:5, 6:4 etc.), both HD 4550 and MCP7A are just perfect. However HD 4550 outperforms MCP7A in other post-processing tasks (denoise, detail enhancement) and 3D.

Switching between various refresh rates with MCP7A is as easy as ATI as I wrote in my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15201728#post15201728). It's unfortunate that NVIDIA discontinued nView Desktop Manager. Anyway AutoHotkey is a versatile tool and learn to use it is not a bad idea.

24p with HD 4550 is subtle. Personally I haven't seen stuttering or audio drift, but it seems that quite a few people reported problems (with various HD 4xxx models).

GeForce 9300/9400 and AMD 780G+HD 4550 are two competing HTPC platforms. Which is better depends on more or less personal taste. If you already have 4850e/780G, then adding HD 4550 may be the quickest way to get good HD/SD playback with 7.1 LPCM.

richie0701

12-03-08, 09:30 AM

Thanks for the replies guys.

One final question, I'll also be using this rig to do my media ripping and encoding.

Would there be a benefit in going with a quad core processor? I was thinking about going with the Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz because of it's reputation and reasonable price.

I don't think it will be necessary for media playback (I won't be gaming, I have a PS3 & XBOX360 for that) just wondering if it will give me an edge on encoding.

Cheers

Richie

walterg74

12-03-08, 11:47 AM

If you are not sure what to choose, go for the mATX, low-end, Intel/NVIDIA. GeForce 9400 is the best IGP right now. Or the mATX, low-end, AMD/AMD. HD 4550 outperforms every IGP. Post-processing is tasks done after decode, including deinterlacing, denoise, detail enhancement, image scaling etc. These are mostly related to SD contents.

Yes. Other solutions are G45 and GeForce 8200/8300. Or any mb with a Radeon HD 4xxx graphics card.

Ok, sorry to be such a noob... let me see if I get this straight and the following is correct...

1) Of all the INTEGRATED solutions, the best I could go for is a motherboard with an NVIDIA 9400 chipset (is 9300 ok too? seems practically identical).

2) Even though the 9400 is the best, if I add a radeon 4550 (for example the Sapphire HD4550) that has even better performance.(for post processing / SD dvd upscaling?)

3) When you say on the second part, other solutions are G45 and geforce 8200/82300, do you mean that as an alternative that is less performing/costly? Why G45 AND an addon card instead of any "plain" motherboard and a 8200/8300 ?

4) If I get a Sapphire HD4550, does it matter at all what motherboard I get? Or should I look at motheboards that have some specific feature or other?

I was looking in Sapphire's website, and it shows that the Radeon HD4550 has not only hdmi through an adapter (included), but that it also has 7.1 sound?? Does that mean that this card is also a sound solution, or is it just some sort of "Passthrough" and I still need either a soundcard or a motherboar that supports 7,1 sound???

5) Is a HD4670 that much better than the 4550 ? I see the main difference is the number of stream processors and the memory bus width. Also, do I get any benefit with a 1Gb card over a 512MB one?

Sorry for all the noob questions, just trying to understand some!!!!

elizerbeth

12-03-08, 12:46 PM

Hi, renethx

I am very new to AVS forum. I came across this post when I was googling HTPC, because I am thinking of upgrading my eMachines T5026. I am not a gamer, what I want to do is being able to view photos and watch movies(on the harddrive) on my 42" TV. Currently, I have T5026 connected to my TV via the "PC2TV" some Fry's representative recommended, but the result is by no means satisfactory. Thus I am thinking of doing some upgrade.

Here is some basic configuration of T5026
CPU: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 519
Operates at 3.06GHz
1MB L2 cache and 533MHz FSB
Operating System: Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Home
Chipset: Intel® 915GV chipset
Memory: 512MB Dual Channel DDR(I have upgraded to 1G, the memory is PC3200)
Expandable to 4GB
Hard Drive: 160GB Serial ATA 7200rpm, 8MB cache
Optical Drives: DVD±RW, 16x Multi-Format double layer
CD-ROM drive - 48x max write
Media Reader: 8-in-1 digital media manager
Video: Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 900 w/DirectX® 9 support
Up to 224MB shared video memory
Sound: Intel® High Definition 6-channel audio (5.1)
Network: Intel® PRO 10/100Mbps integrated Ethernet
Modem: 56K ITU v.92-ready Fax/Modem
Peripherals: Premium multimedia keyboard, 2-button wheel mouse, amplified stereo speakers
Ports/Other: 7 USB (1 in Media Manager, 2 in front, 4 in back), 3 IEEE 1394 Firewire (2 in front, 1 in back), 1 VGA external connector, 1 serial, 1 parallel, 2 PS/2, 5 audio (2 in front, 3 in back)

the motherboard in T5026 is Intel® D915GAG (Augsburg) Mainboard (according to some google)

My question is:
1) If I add in a video card, will the system be powerful enough to output HD content on PC to TV?
2) If the answer is "YES" to the above question, what kind of video card you would recommend? Preferrably one with HDMI port since my TV has an unused HDMI port.
3) When I look at the video cards on newegg, they have different core clock, must that be matched with the FSB or memory speed?
4) Antec Fusion Remote Max you suggested looks way more attractive then the T5026 case. Is it possible to move all the parts in T5026 to Antec Case? (the mother board in T5026 seems to be MicroATX, will there be any problems fitting that into an ATX HTPC case?) I'd like to use ATX because it offers room for more 3.5" harddrives.

Thank you for your great post and anyone is welcome to give me a hand.

best
Elizerbeth

WR7

12-03-08, 01:18 PM

Buy GA-E7AUM-DS2H. I haven't seen overheating problem

BTW CoreAVC does not support DXVA either.

Hi Renethx, thansks for the reply.

Unfortunately although I tried to cancel my order it still went through got delivered this morning and im just installing the drivers now.

Im gonna see how it runs, as although this is a htpc, its not in htpc case, its in a midi antec tower with a zalman 9700 cooler which is blowing air directly on to the NB - i assume this will help??.

if it starts playing up then ill look up the GA board.

many thanks again.

dbone1026

12-03-08, 01:51 PM

Good HTPC article:

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200812-htpc.ars/1

m.white

12-03-08, 03:08 PM

Afternoon everyone. Finished my HTPC awhile ago, just have not moved my Blu-ray drive to it yet (currently in my gaming desktop). Though I have been hesitant to because I have been having problems with the drive reading some movies I have. It was just a few movies I did not care about, but now I got the Harry Potter series and it cannot read any of them.

My gaming desktop setup:
~Vista Ultimate 64bit
~PowerDVD 8 Ultra (Media player)
~Lite-on blu-ray reader (Would link but not allowed, it is currently the 99USD at newegg)

Not really sure what the problem is, I got the latest firmware running on it, though I will check again tonight. The disc will spin in the drive for awhile usually and then just stop and Windows never says there is a disc in the drive.

ilovejedd

12-03-08, 05:53 PM

My question is:
1) If I add in a video card, will the system be powerful enough to output HD content on PC to TV?
2) If the answer is "YES" to the above question, what kind of video card you would recommend? Preferrably one with HDMI port since my TV has an unused HDMI port.
3) When I look at the video cards on newegg, they have different core clock, must that be matched with the FSB or memory speed?
4) Antec Fusion Remote Max you suggested looks way more attractive then the T5026 case. Is it possible to move all the parts in T5026 to Antec Case? (the mother board in T5026 seems to be MicroATX, will there be any problems fitting that into an ATX HTPC case?) I'd like to use ATX because it offers room for more 3.5" harddrives.

I read a review on CNET (http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/emachines-t5026/4505-3118_7-31297819.html) regarding your computer:
The bad:
lack of AGP or PCI Express slot precludes graphics upgrades
It seems it's not possible to upgrade your current PC since, afaik, all video cards that feature HD hardware acceleration is either AGP (and there's only 1 or 2 of those) or PCI Express (the majority of new cards).

To answer your questions:
1) Not possible.
2) Not applicable.
3) No. You can use any video card as long as your PC has a compatible expansion slot.
4) I guess it's possible but since your computer is unusable, somewhat pointless.

It would probably better if you just built a new computer or buy, say, an Acer X1200.

Axel

12-03-08, 06:23 PM

Download and install AutoHotkey (http://www.autohotkey.com/). Suppose you have three sound playback devices below:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=125682&stc=1&d=1228229552

Copy and paste the following script in NotePad and save it as, for example, Sound Device.ahk.

SetKeyDelay 750

#1::
Run rundll32.exe Shell32.dll`,Control_RunDLL Mmsys.cpl`,`,0
WinWait Sound
Send {Down}
Send !s
Send {Enter}
Return

#2::
Run rundll32.exe Shell32.dll`,Control_RunDLL Mmsys.cpl`,`,0
WinWait Sound
Send {Down 2}
Send !s
Send {Enter}
Return

#3::
Run rundll32.exe Shell32.dll`,Control_RunDLL Mmsys.cpl`,`,0
WinWait Sound
Send {Down 3}
Send !s
Send {Enter}
Return"#1" means the hotkey Windows Logo+1 that selects NVIDIA HDMI Output. The second hotkey Windows Logo+2 selects Speakers and the third Realtek Digital Output. Of course you can assign any hotkey to each of them. Please read the Help file to see the meaning of each command. Right-click it and click "Run Script". Now you are ready.

I added the line "SetKeyDelay 750" to make key strokes slow down (750 milliseconds between two adjacent key strokes). You can remove it.
It works flawlessly!! Awesome!!

I have been a huge fan of your contributions to the forum with all the help and guidance you have provided so relentlessly to the community for so long.

Thank you so much, renethx!!
_____
Axel

elizerbeth

12-03-08, 06:36 PM

Thanks, ilovejedd

I'll check out whether the motherboard has PCIe or not. Probably what you said is true. I was just googling and came across a webpage which says there might be an optional PCIe slot. (Thank you for pointing that out and I will open the case and double check)

Expansion Slots
-Two PCI Conventional bus connectors
-One PCI Express x1 bus add-in card connector
-One PCI Express x16 bus add-in card connector (Optional)

Acer X1200 looks nice, but seems to have limited internal 3.5" bay. Do you happen to know any PC that can accommodate >=4 3.5" HD, and also have an dvi or hdmi port? (Because I also intend to use it as a backup server)

Elizerbeth

Bonex

12-03-08, 06:37 PM

Are you using the DVI to HDMI dongle that came with the card? If so, it should force video levels and allow you to see BTB (blacker than black) levels. That should work unless you have your monitor set for "Enhanced" video levels (or whatever designation your monitor uses for PC level). If you're using just DVI, it's probably coming out at PC levels, and you won't see BTB.

This has been one of the most confusing and troublesome areas for me in using an HTPC in the past. What I absolutely love about the 4xxx series Radeon cards is that they not only have HD audio through HDMI, but they also force the signal to video level, not PC level. Since every other piece of gear I have uses video level, it makes setting brightness and contrast so much easier.

I'm using the analogue component output to the TV, and DVI for the LCD monitor.
I made a lot of tests until I found how to fix the problem. The Catalyst suite shipped with the video card (8.9) lets me see the BTB bars, but they are cropped if I use 8.11. Not only this, but with 8.11 the color controls in CCC only work if the video is interlaced and do nothing if it's progressive. I have some dvd's where I can change the brightness only during the FBI logo :eek:
So for now I'm back to Cat 8.9

I tested the card with some difficult PAL and NTSC dvd's where my Panasonic S97 shows combing or aliasing. PAL deinterlacing is a lot better, no errors at all; with the NTSC one (an anime show) they fail in almost the same places and sometimes when a subtitle appears the 4650 loses the film cadence for a few frames, enough to be noticeable.

Now only one problem remains with this card... It doesn't matter how much I try to properly set up the 4650 and TV, but I still think the image output of my old S97 is better. For some reason the image from the 4650 seems a bit flat, for example the skin of the actors is not as detailed as with the Panny, and also the film grain is less visible. It seems like the image is smoothed in some way (even if the noise reduction is turned off).
During the week end I'll do some other tests.
Unfortunately I can't test the HDMI out...

sneals2000

12-03-08, 08:05 PM

I tested the card with some difficult PAL and NTSC dvd's where my Panasonic S97 shows combing or aliasing. PAL deinterlacing is a lot better, no errors at all; with the NTSC one (an anime show) they fail in almost the same places and sometimes when a subtitle appears the 4650 loses the film cadence for a few frames, enough to be noticeable.

Suspect that the anime stuff has problems if the subtitles are "open" i.e. burned into the video rather than being added as an overlay (and thus removable).

If the subtitles fade on or cut on during a "mixed" video frame, the clash of video motion and film motion confuses the de-interlacer (particularly if it is anime using something other than 3:2 pull-down?)

12-03-08, 08:11 PM

I use an IR Keyboard to send signals to my HTPC. I have had poor luck with anything Bluetooth to reach about 40 feet away where my equipment resides in another room. To use my IR Keyboard it needs separate PS2 inputs (mouse and keyboard) on the mobo but I can't seem to find any Geforce 9400 mobos that have this. It actually seems Gigabyte has the only Geforce 9400 mobo at the moment. Does anyone know if we should see more Geforce 9400 mobos soon and if so will any have separate PS2 inputs?

ilovejedd

12-03-08, 09:06 PM

Acer X1200 looks nice, but seems to have limited internal 3.5" bay. Do you happen to know any PC that can accommodate >=4 3.5" HD, and also have an dvi or hdmi port? (Because I also intend to use it as a backup server)
The pre-builts I've seen (at least the lower cost ones) can usually accomodate only 2 hard drives. If you want >=4 HDD's and still have the PC look at home in your media rack, you will probably have to build your own.

sneals2000

12-03-08, 09:12 PM

renethx

12-03-08, 09:31 PM

walterg74

12-03-08, 09:34 PM

Since the software part of the guide isn't complete yet, are there any links to any good posts on the subject? Once I figure out the hardware, it'd be nice to know what software I should put in! :D

renethx

12-03-08, 09:45 PM

Ok, sorry to be such a noob... let me see if I get this straight and the following is correct...

1) Of all the INTEGRATED solutions, the best I could go for is a motherboard with an NVIDIA 9400 chipset (is 9300 ok too? seems practically identical).

2) Even though the 9400 is the best, if I add a radeon 4550 (for example the Sapphire HD4550)

3) When you say on the second part, other solutions are G45 and geforce 8200/82300, do you mean that as an alternative that is less performing/costly? Why G45 AND an addon card instead of any "plain" motherboard and a 8200/8300 ?

4) If I get a Sapphire HD4550, does it matter at all what motherboard I get? Or should I look at motheboards that have some specific feature or other?

I was looking in Sapphire's website, and it shows that the Radeon HD4550 has not only hdmi through an adapter (included), but that it also has 7.1 sound?? Does that mean that this card is also a sound solution, or is it just some sort of "Passthrough" and I still need either a soundcard or a motherboar that supports 7,1 sound???

Sorry for all the noob questions, just trying to understand some!!!!
If you go with GeForce 9300/9400, I recommend either GIGABYTE or MSI. If you choose HD 4550, any mb is OK (unless you connect two displays, in which case the post-processing of HD 4550 does not work correctly; if you choose an AMD 780G chipset mb, the problem is fixed immediately [connect the second display to the onboard graphics]). GeForce 9300/9400 vs. HD 4550 is more or less personal taste. I prefer HD 4550's SD post-processing.

G45 is not bad, but there is no reason to choose it over GeForce 9300/9400 if it costs the same. GeForce 8200/8300+Phenom X3 is $30 cheaper and may be a good option for HD playback.

All the solutions mentioned above support 7.1 LPCM over HDMI.

walterg74

12-03-08, 09:50 PM

If you go with GeForce 9300/9400, I recommend either GIGABYTE or MSI. If you choose HD 4550, any mb is OK (unless you connect two displays, in which case the post-processing of HD 4550 does not work correctly; if you choose an AMD 780G chipset mb, the problem is fixed immediately [connect the second display to the onboard graphics]). GeForce 9300/9400 vs. HD 4550 is more or less personal taste. I prefer HD 4550's SD post-processing.

G45 is not bad, but there is no reason to choose it over GeForce 9300/9400 if it costs the same. GeForce 8200/8300+Phenom X3 is $30 cheaper and may be a good option for HD playback.

Thanks again!! Since I see you're answering at this hour, would you mind rechecking my post that I edited with some stuff about the 4670 ?

Thanks!!!

renethx

12-03-08, 10:00 PM

My question is:
1) If I add in a video card, will the system be powerful enough to output HD content on PC to TV?
Two important factors to play HD contents are:

- Graphics card (for decoding HD codecs)
- CPU (for decoding HD contents for which GPU's decoder does not work for some reasons)

As eMachines T5026 lacks any PCI Express slot, there is no way to add a graphics card. As the mb is too old, there is no way to upgrade CPU. So you have to buy or build a new system. (Oops, ilovejedd already said the same.)

renethx

12-03-08, 10:15 PM

Thanks again!! Since I see you're answering at this hour, would you mind rechecking my post that I edited with some stuff about the 4670 ?
4670 is not much better than 4550. 512MB is enough.

StupidPig

12-03-08, 10:22 PM

4670 is not much better than 4550. 512MB is enough.
You sure? 4x stream, 400MHz faster, 128-bit vs 64-bit memory. Is it supposed 4670 give you much better post-processing capability than 4550?
If 4550 really do as good as 4670, I definately will go for 4550 for it's fanless and cheaper price.

richie0701

12-04-08, 12:12 AM

Q6600 2.4GHz is roughly twice faster than Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz in encoding. Check x264 Benchmark (http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=442&pgno=0).

Thanks for the reply and link. Think I'll go with the quad core. Now I have a geeky winter project to take time away from the honey-do's.

Cheers

Richie

mulox

12-04-08, 12:14 AM

Hello all, I just purchased a Mitsu 1080p projector for my new HT room and a Onyo SR806 receiver, and now I am rounding everything out with 1 or 2 HTPC's. Since my office is adjacent to the HT room, and I am putting the AV rack in my office and using RF to control everything in the room, I can go with a mid-tower or full-tower solution and not worry about fan noise. Just a few questions please (in bold)...

First PC:
This machine will replace my current desktop which is primary for email/web/gaming. I have a 30" Dell LCD connected to my current machine, and I was thinking of making the new machine dual purpose (gaming and HTPC) since I would never use for the same purpose simultaneously. I want a simple way to "toggle" from my Dell 30" to my Mitsu projector in the next room, like a kvm switch, but I think the only way I can really do this is by changing output device in Catlyst Manager, correct? I will be using DVI to connect to the LCD and HDMI to the projector. Here is a list of parts I have for this machine so far:

Intel Quad Q8200
ECS G31T-M mobo
Crucial Ballistix 4gb ram
ATI HD 4870 1GB
LG Blu-Ray burner
WD Raptor 74gb (for OS)
Seagate 1.5TB drive
Vista Ultimate 32-bit

I don't think I want to be using the the ECS motherboard (it came bundled, so it was basically free) and I am looking for any suggestions on a good Asus or Gigabyte board. I am wanting to stream 7.1 sound through the HDMI connection on the 4870. I also want to buy a PCIe HD-TV tuner card that has a QAM tuner, and will also play over HDMI on the 4870... any suggestions?

Second PC (potential):
I currently have an old server with 4TB running RAID 10, mostly with SD DVD content, but some ripped Blu-ray content as well. I thought I would use the first PC to stream from the old server, but I might just build a new server with a Q9550 that I have. Since this box would be purely for storage, ripping content, and digital PVR, I would not need an expensive mobo and video card, right? What is the absolute best video card for upscaling SD DVD content and playing Blu-ray content (ripped or from the LG drive)? Here is what my new media server could look like:

Intel Quad Q9550
ECS G31T-M mobo??
Crucial Ballistix 4gb ram
ATI HD 4850 ??
LG Blu-Ray burner
WD Raptor 74gb (for OS)
4 Seagate 1.5TB drives in RAID 10
Vista Ultimate 64-bit

12-04-08, 11:06 AM

Would a USB to dual PS/2 adaptor solve the problem?

Unfortunately, I don't think it would. It wouldn't be possible to get in to the BIOS using one of those since USB isn't recognized until once the OS is presented...correct? Ultimately, I do need to get in to the BIOS from time to time.

sneals2000

12-04-08, 12:43 PM

Unfortunately, I don't think it would. It wouldn't be possible to get in to the BIOS using one of those since USB isn't recognized until once the OS is presented...correct? Ultimately, I do need to get in to the BIOS from time to time.

Most modern motherboards - including my older Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H - have USB keyboard support in the BIOS (you may need to connect a PS2 keyboard for the first time to enable this). I'd be surprised if any recent one didn't. I've used USB keyboards to configure my BIOS before now I'm sure.

seth.sanbower

12-04-08, 02:07 PM

Can you give me a rough idea or tell me where I can find out how long it would take to encode a riped blue ray to mkv using the recommended low end mATX intel/nvidia.

At this time I don’t really have a target file size in mind (probably under 10gb per movie). I plan on playing around until I find the right settings.

I’m going to build a new htpc and the recommended low end mATX intel/nvidia would suit my needs for video play back. However, I also want to rip and encode my blue ray collection to mkv. If it will take a whole day per movie to encode then I’ll look at a faster system.

Then again, if I have to spend >$1,000 on an htpc to do this then I might wait to rip my blue rays until I get a more powerful desktop.

Thanks

dbone1026

12-04-08, 02:14 PM

seth.sanbower

12-04-08, 02:29 PM

I have not tried to encode on my HTPC (Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H / AMD 4850e), but on my Desktop PC (Vista Premium w/ 3x500GB RAID 0, Core 2 Quad Processor, 3072MB RAM ) it takes me about 10 hours to get it to encode to a 8150MB mkv.
Hmm...if a quad core takes 10 hrs then an e5200 would take...

I guess this is a bad idea. I think the wife would have a problem with the htpc being tied up for 3 days encoding my final cut version of blade runner.

dbone1026

12-04-08, 02:40 PM

Hmm...if a quad core takes 10 hrs then an e5200 would take...

I guess this is a bad idea. I think the wife would have a problem with the htpc being tied up for 3 days encoding my final cut version of blade runner.

Haha, yeah. I do my encodes overnight so I don't get yelled at by the wife. By the time she is up in the morning the encoding is done and my PC has powered down. Don't think I would even touch encoding with my HTPC.

RyanParsons

12-04-08, 05:22 PM

crobs808

12-04-08, 05:57 PM

320GB for high end? u serious? my HTPC is mid-range and it has a 1TB drive, and I am running out of space. 320gb is find for SD but not HD

Bonex

12-04-08, 06:22 PM

Suspect that the anime stuff has problems if the subtitles are "open" i.e. burned into the video rather than being added as an overlay (and thus removable).

If the subtitles fade on or cut on during a "mixed" video frame, the clash of video motion and film motion confuses the de-interlacer (particularly if it is anime using something other than 3:2 pull-down?)

They were removable subtitles. The same scenes is played perfectly if the subs are disabled. My suspect is they are overlayed before the video is deinterlaced and sometimes they confuse the deinterlacer...

walterg74

12-04-08, 06:40 PM

320GB for high end? u serious? my HTPC is mid-range and it has a 1TB drive, and I am running out of space. 320gb is find for SD but not HD

So? Who cares how much space your pc has? Who told you that "high end" refers to the space? That is based on each user's needs, not mow many movies you can rip/pirate to store there... YOu post makes no sense at all...

ilovejedd

12-04-08, 08:07 PM

renethx, I just recently purchased all of the parts for a media center/server and am using the Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8. I mentioned this over in the "Guide to Building a Media Server" thread and have caught a bit of flak because they all seem to believe it will cause a huge performance hit and that I should have bought an Areca or another similar card. Am I going to notice that much of a difference with the smaller card?
It depends on what you're doing. If you only need it for one drive access at a time, I don't think you'll see much of a difference. If you plan on doing software RAID on it, then if you install the card on a PCI slot, that'll be quite a performance hit.

12-04-08, 08:11 PM

Most modern motherboards - including my older Gigabyte MA78GM-S2H - have USB keyboard support in the BIOS (you may need to connect a PS2 keyboard for the first time to enable this). I'd be surprised if any recent one didn't. I've used USB keyboards to configure my BIOS before now I'm sure.

Thanks. I just wonder if all the conversion might flake things for me. For instance, my wireless keyboard is an airboard that I really like. It uses IR and at the IR Receiver it has two PS2 connections, one for a mouse and one for the keyboard PS2 inputs on a motherboard. Again, I just worry that connecting these two PS2 inputs to a conversion cable that goes from PS2 to USB and then connecting that to a USB input on the motherboard might be too much for the motherboard but I could be wrong. I might just have to give it a try and see. Thanks again for the advice.

usenet4life

12-04-08, 09:06 PM

So low profile card means the board is narrower than average, but the metal end piece that forms the wall of the case is always the same length across cards?

How do you tell which cases fit full profile cards and which fit low profile video cards? I am considering the antec fusion 430 desktop

ilovejedd

12-04-08, 09:24 PM

So low profile card means the board is narrower than average, but the metal end piece that forms the wall of the case is always the same length across cards?
Not necessarily. Most of the time, low profile cards already come with the half height PCI bracket. You might also find some cards with the description "low profile-ready" meaning it comes with a full height PCI bracket, but the actual board is half height. For obvious reasons, it's possible to replace the half height bracket on a low profile board with a full height one but not vice versa.

How do you tell which cases fit full profile cards and which fit low profile video cards? I am considering the antec fusion 430 desktop
If it's not mentioned in the product specifications, you can usually tell from the picture of the PCI slots in relation to the rear I/O panel. A full height PCI slot is more than double the height of the rear I/O panel while a half height/low profile one is only slightly taller.

mthomtech

12-04-08, 10:01 PM

Download and install [http://www.autohotkey.com/"]AutoHotkey.

renethx - is it possible to set up a remote command from the media center remote? That's what I could really use in my setup. Also, with my current board, I really just need to switch between 2-ch line-out or digital out. It's a quick click in the interface, but really need to do it with my wireless home automation remote that emulates the media center remote.

Thanks.

RyanParsons

12-05-08, 01:30 AM

ilovejedd

12-05-08, 08:35 AM

ilovejedd, if this card is so bad at this, why did renethx mention in his list? If I had realized it was obviously so unsuitable for this job I would have pushed harder for the areca card. I had planned on doing software RAID for the drives I'm getting with the computer and then just adding any more I need later.
Probably because he's just suggesting it for a JBOD configuration and not RAID. If you read other parts of the post, he did suggest a PCIe x8 card if doing RAID. Besides, the card itself isn't bad. It's a PCI-X card and paired with a motherboard with a PCI-X slot (64-bit, 133MHz - 4066 MB/s) and a decent software RAID implementation, it should be pretty fast. The problem is I think you're pairing it with a PCI slot (32-bit, 33MHz - 133 MB/s). That's when you'll see a performance hit while doing RAID. Again, if you only need to access one drive at a time, then there should be no noticeable performance difference since the bandwidth of a PCI bus should be higher than most single disk speeds.

renethx

12-05-08, 10:43 AM

You sure? 4x stream, 400MHz faster, 128-bit vs 64-bit memory. Is it supposed 4670 give you much better post-processing capability than 4550?
If 4550 really do as good as 4670, I definately will go for 4550 for it's fanless and cheaper price.
Yep, HD 4550 is basically equivalent to HD 4670 under the condition that only one display is connected and it is set to primary (it can be secondary if you use onboard graphics HD 3200/3300). I compared them closely. Dynamic contrast does not work with HD 4550, however.

renethx

12-05-08, 11:03 AM

but I think the only way I can really do this is by changing output device in Catlyst Manager, correct?

I am looking for any suggestions on a good Asus or Gigabyte board. I am wanting to stream 7.1 sound through the HDMI connection on the 4870. I also want to buy a PCIe HD-TV tuner card that has a QAM tuner, and will also play over HDMI on the 4870... any suggestions?
1. You can do this instantly by hotkeys. Connect both displays to the card. Set LCD on and the projector off and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey. Similarly set the projector on and the LCD off and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey.

2. ATX or mATX? Check AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe.

12-05-08, 11:11 AM

Gigabyte appears to have the only Geforce 9400 motherboard that I can find. Does anyone know if other 9400 motherboards are scheduled to come out soon?

renethx

12-05-08, 11:16 AM

renethx, I just recently purchased all of the parts for a media center/server and am using the Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8. I mentioned this over in the "Guide to Building a Media Server" thread and have caught a bit of flak because they all seem to believe it will cause a huge performance hit and that I should have bought an Areca or another similar card. Am I going to notice that much of a difference with the smaller card?
It depends on your usage. The purpose of my recommended system is "Storing/archiving media files" and "Streaming media to (at most a couple of) HTPCs." Intended OS is WHS or UnRAID. The Supermicro card with a PCI slot is enough for this purpose. Ockie, a 'Self Proclaimed Storage King' at Hard Forum, also attested that WHS with Supermicro+PCI worked excellently (see my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14822471#post14822471)).

Ewingr

12-05-08, 11:18 AM

[QUOTE=renethx;15223873]1. You can do this instantly by hotkeys. Connect both displays to the card. Set LCD on and the projector off and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey. Similarly set the projector on and the LCD off and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey.
QUOTE]

Is there a similar way a person could have hot keys to switch between Digital and Analog on the 'Default Audio' in Vista?

renethx

12-05-08, 11:36 AM

renethx - is it possible to set up a remote command from the media center remote? That's what I could really use in my setup. Also, with my current board, I really just need to switch between 2-ch line-out or digital out. It's a quick click in the interface, but really need to do it with my wireless home automation remote that emulates the media center remote.
I think reprogramming buttons is necessary.

renethx

12-05-08, 11:44 AM

Hogweed75

12-05-08, 12:59 PM

.mkv files?

I would like to know why some are preferencing .mkv files over .iso files for high def videos? Wither that be Blu-ray or HD-DVD. From what I understand it takes much longer to rip correct? What is the advantage over .iso?

FLAC players!
Also I downloaded Winamp for playing back FLAC files last night it it's seems to produce nice sound quality playback. Is there anything better, sound quality, usage, etc. about some of the other players? I noticed that some are using Madflac, Foobar2000, etc. and I also saw an item called K-Lite Codec Pack (http://www.9fix.com/software/8125-k-lite-codec-pack-4.3.1-full.html). Any advice on these players?

I think I'm going to be using "My Movies" (http://wiki.mymovies.dk/MainPage.ashx) with VMC so I'm trying to find a player that works as a system here. I don't know if Winamp does yet so this is why I'm asking. Please help with advice! Thanks!!!

StupidPig

12-05-08, 04:13 PM

Yep, HD 4550 is basically equivalent to HD 4670 under the condition that only one display is connected and it is set to primary (it can be secondary if you use onboard graphics HD 3200/3300). I compared them closely. Dynamic contrast does not work with HD 4550, however.

What is the problem for connecting two displays with 4550? I currently have my 780G connected to both my LCD Mon (via HDMI) and tv (via VGA), and I could like to do so with the new display card. Also, if there is a problem for 4550, will 4670 have the same problem?

hangar18valk

12-05-08, 04:36 PM

i'm sure it's something simple!

Antec Fusion Case
Corsair VX450W PSU
GA-M78GM-S2H (rev 1.1)
AMD 9600
OCZ PC2 6400 1x2GB (have x2, but just trying to use one stick for now!)

i think(?) i have everything wired correctly, including the 24-pin ATX adapter cable with the 3-pin Molex power to the VFD. the VFD lights up, but no fans, no lights, no nothing else.

any ideas?

sneals2000

12-05-08, 04:42 PM

hangar18valk

12-05-08, 04:46 PM

Have you connected the 4 pin CPU power to the motherboard, as well as the ATX power?

yes...the PSU has 2 4-pin connectors on the same wire-bundle - i've tried them both

utee05

12-05-08, 05:46 PM

hi all,
I am looking for suggestions on a MOBO with good SB audio. I am not too concerned about onboard video as I'm looking to get an HD4670 to handle BD/HD-DVD and other hi-def video. Here are the current items that I have:

RAM: 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix
HD: WD640AAKS
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 430W
CPU: Amd Athlon X2 BE-2400
Cooler: Arctic Cooler 64 PRO
Optical: LG Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Combo Drive

I don't want to spend too much on this motherboard as I would like to keep it under $75. This HTPC build is just going to be used to watch Blu-Ray/HD-DVD movies and any other videos or movies that I rip to my harddrive. There will be the occasional gaming, but the HD4670 will be able to handle that.

EDIT: Also this will be connecting to my receiver via optical or coaxial or even analong (need to check for analog connections). I currently don't have a receiver that handles HDMI inputs (at least not yet) for this PC build.

walterg74

12-05-08, 06:29 PM

Yep, HD 4550 is basically equivalent to HD 4670 under the condition that only one display is connected and it is set to primary (it can be secondary if you use onboard graphics HD 3200/3300). I compared them closely. Dynamic contrast does not work with HD 4550, however.

Hmm.. so let me get this straight...

The double size width memory bus, and the 4 x stream processors (320 vs 80) make no difference at all??? :confused:

StupidPig

12-05-08, 07:16 PM

What is the problem for connecting two displays with 4550? I currently have my 780G connected to both my LCD Mon (via HDMI) and tv (via VGA), and I could like to do so with the new display card. Also, if there is a problem for 4550, will 4670 have the same problem?

4550 vs 4670 seems a tough choice for me.... Saw a 4670 for $70 after tax, s&h and rebate, then a 4550 for $55 after tax and rebate (s&h is free). Originally, for just $15 more, I thought I should go for 4670 for the possible advantage on video encoding with upcomming Stream, but then I read from web saying it's fan speed control is not working and very loud all the time. Anyone got insight about whether this fan speed issue for 4670 will ever be fixed?

renethx

12-05-08, 07:18 PM

.mkv files?
A couple of possible reasons are:

- You can select only necessary video/audio tracks and subtitles.
- Hence the file size can be reduced.
- The new HD audio formats are transcoded to FLAC (another lossless format) and you can play them at full-resolution.

Only transcoding involved is audio. So it's relatively quick (less than two hours per movie). ffdshow Audio Decoder is now capable of decoding Dolby TrueHD (and DTS-HD Master Audio too?; but only at 16bit/48kHz). So audio transcoding is even not necessary. MPC-HC (actually MPC Video Decoder which enables DXVA)+Haali Media Splitter+ffdshow tryouts+madFLAC is one of the quickest ways to play mkv. You can also play with VMC with appropriate codecs registered. In general you'd better stay away from codec packs, ffdshow tryouts is enough. At least you'd better complete back up your system drive before installing it and possibly messing up the registry. :) (This is a general caution; I don't know about K-Lite.)

renethx

12-05-08, 07:22 PM

What is the problem for connecting two displays with 4550? I currently have my 780G connected to both my LCD Mon (via HDMI) and tv (via VGA), and I could like to do so with the new display card. Also, if there is a problem for 4550, will 4670 have the same problem?
If you connect a second display to HD 4550, suddenly SD post-processing stops working. 4670 does not suffer from this problem. If you use 780G, then connect the primary display to HD 4550 and the secondary to HD 3200, and you will be fine.

renethx

12-05-08, 07:26 PM

renethx

12-05-08, 07:34 PM

hi all,
I am looking for suggestions on a MOBO with good SB audio.

Also this will be connecting to my receiver via optical or coaxial or even analong (need to check for analog connections). I currently don't have a receiver that handles HDMI inputs (at least not yet) for this PC build.
Perhaps you will want DDL or DTS Interactive to get surround sounds from games. So GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP mATX or GA-MA78G-DS3H (rev. 2.0 only) ATX is recommended.

renethx

12-05-08, 07:37 PM

Hmm.. so let me get this straight...

The double size width memory bus, and the 4 x stream processors (320 vs 80) make no difference at all??? :confused:
You can still notice difference with Dynamic Contrast on, and when two displays are connected. :)

renethx

12-05-08, 07:41 PM

but then I read from web saying it's fan speed control is not working and very loud all the time.
Only the ASUS and GIGABYTE cards suffer from this problem. HIS H467QS512P/H467QT512P is very quiet although you can't control fan speed. The PowerColor model is the quietest and its fan speed can be controlled from CCC (you have to buy the ATI DVI-HDMI adapter seperately).

hangar18valk

12-05-08, 08:00 PM

Remove CPU and memory, then reseat them firmly.

still nothing...even the PSU fan doesn't come on. yet power's going through to the 24-pin ATX cable, for the VFD to light up.

could it be one of the 2-pin front panel cables? i have them installed IAW the mobo's instructions (F_PANEL, Front Panel Header). there are actually two 2-pin power switch cables:

1. "POWER SW" (black/white) from front panel button (i assume)
2. "POWER SW" (black/red) from VFD for remote control use (i assume)

I've tried various combinations (yes, trying the remote too!), but not both plugged in at the same time (Pins 6/8 on the F_PANEL). not sure where i'd plug the other one in?

i'm going to pull the front panel and confirm the Antec wiring. and try to re-align the VFD...it's crooked.

and i don't have anything plugged into the 3-pin header of F PANEL PWR LED...should i?

StupidPig

12-05-08, 08:18 PM

Only the ASUS and GIGABYTE cards suffer from this problem. HIS H467QS512P/H467QT512P is very quiet although you can't control fan speed. The PowerColor model is the quietest and its fan speed can be controlled from CCC (you have to buy the ATI DVI-HDMI adapter seperately).

Guess that's why the Gigabyte one is so cheap ($70). The HIS will cost $26 more after tax/S&H/Rebate. Another coincidence is both Gigabyte and ASUS (the one with fan speed issue) are the one with built-in HDMI port.

sneals2000

12-05-08, 08:55 PM

still nothing...even the PSU fan doesn't come on. yet power's going through to the 24-pin ATX cable, for the VFD to light up.

could it be one of the 2-pin front panel cables? i have them installed IAW the mobo's instructions (F_PANEL, Front Panel Header). there are actually two 2-pin power switch cables:

1. "POWER SW" (black/white) from front panel button (i assume)
2. "POWER SW" (black/red) from VFD for remote control use (i assume)

I've tried various combinations (yes, trying the remote too!), but not both plugged in at the same time (Pins 6/8 on the F_PANEL). not sure where i'd plug the other one in?

i'm going to pull the front panel and confirm the Antec wiring. and try to re-align the VFD...it's crooked.

There are two power switch cables in the Fusion case.

One comes from the power switch on the front panel, the other from the LCD or VFD (depends on model - Silver has VFD, Black has LCD).

There are two ways of connecting these.

1. Connect the Front panel Power Switch pair directly to your motherboard. This will only allow you to switch your PC on and off from the power switch.

2. Connect the Front panel Power Switch pair to the two pins on the VFD/LCD panel AND then connect the second pair of power switch connectors from the LCD/VFD to the motherboard header. This will allow you to switch the PC on either from the front panel OR from the infra-red remote control.

(I guess there is a third option where you leave the front panel power switch unconnected and only have IR remote control of power on - but that seems a little silly)

I am running 1. - as I never really need to switch on from the remote - and with the version of the case and VFD display I have it looks a bit tricky to connect the front panel power switch to the VFD.

and i don't have anything plugged into the 3-pin header of F PANEL PWR LED...should i?

I think I connected my Power LED in my Fusion to the Power LED header on my motherboard, same cluster as Reset, Power and HD LED. Can't remember.

ISTR that there was a power connector from the PSU to connect to the VFD, as well as a half-USB header from the VFD to connect to a spare USB slot on the motherboard, as well as the power switch daisy chain.

I have a Fusion 430 Silver UK V2 (no remote control supplied, but came with PSU)

hangar18valk

12-05-08, 09:14 PM

There are two power switch cables in the Fusion case.

One comes from the power switch on the front panel, the other from the LCD or VFD (depends on model - Silver has VFD, Black has LCD).

There are two ways of connecting these.

1. Connect the Front panel Power Switch pair directly to your motherboard. This will only allow you to switch your PC on and off from the power switch.

2. Connect the Front panel Power Switch pair to the two pins on the VFD/LCD panel AND then connect the second pair of power switch connectors from the LCD/VFD to the motherboard header. This will allow you to switch the PC on either from the front panel OR from the infra-red remote control.

(I guess there is a third option where you leave the front panel power switch unconnected and only have IR remote control of power on - but that seems a little silly)

I am running 1. - as I never really need to switch on from the remote - and with the version of the case and VFD display I have it looks a bit tricky to connect the front panel power switch to the VFD.

I think I connected my Power LED in my Fusion to the Power LED header on my motherboard, same cluster as Reset, Power and HD LED. Can't remember.

ISTR that there was a power connector from the PSU to connect to the VFD, as well as a half-USB header from the VFD to connect to a spare USB slot on the motherboard, as well as the power switch daisy chain.

I have a Fusion 430 Silver UK V2 (no remote control supplied, but came with PSU)

thanks, Sneals. i agree, just should have the POWER SW (button) on the header, and leave the remote 2-pin disconnected. i do have the USB half-header (does it matter which USB header it gets plugged into?), and the 3-pin power you mentioned is pig-tailed off the supplied 24-pin ATX adapter cable. the LCD (Black case) does light up with the PSU power switch on the back. so that part works.

i pulled off the 4-pin mobo power, and then my PSU fan came on! but now can't repeat that little element of "success."

could the OCZ memory be bad? or not compatible (Reaper PC2 6400 2Mb)? i can say it's not compatible with the Ninja Scythe in slots DDR1/2! i put the stock AMD HS on for now.

renethx

12-05-08, 09:29 PM

could the OCZ memory be bad? or not compatible (Reaper PC2 6400 2Mb)? i can say it's not compatible with the Ninja Scythe in slots DDR1/2! i put the stock AMD HS on for now.
Try to power up the system with the minimum configuration: CPU with stock cooler, 1 stick of memory in the DDRII_1 slot (try each stick) or in another slot (try each slot), PSU, and nothing else. Connect only:

- Display/mouse/keyboard
- 24-pin main power cable
- 4-pin power cable for CPU
- 2-pin power switch cable from the case power button to the F_PANEL connector. Or short the two PW (Power Switch) pins of the F_PANEL connector using a flathead screwdriver (the same effect as pressing the case power button); this avoids the possibly malfunctioning case power button.

hangar18valk

12-05-08, 09:44 PM

Try to power up the system with the minimum configuration: CPU with stock cooler, 1 stick of memory in the DDRII_1 slot (try each stick) or in another slot (try each slot), PSU, and nothing else. Connect only:

- Display/mouse/keyboard
- 24-pin main power cable
- 4-pin power cable for CPU
- 2-pin power switch cable from the case power button to the F_PANEL connector. Or short the two PW (Power Switch) pins of the F_PANEL connector using a flathead screwdriver (the same effect as pressing the case power button); this avoids the possibly malfunctioning case power button.

OK, now we're getting somewhere! single stick in DDR4 got it! i put the stick back into DDR1 and it's running. now just need to connect up some cables (one at a time!), and then a monitor and check the BIOS, etc...

thanks for the steps, renethx...i thought i had gone through just about everything!

renethx

12-05-08, 09:50 PM

OK, now we're getting somewhere! single stick in DDR4 got it! i put the stick back into DDR1 and it's running. now just need to connect up some cables (one at a time!), and then a monitor and check the BIOS, etc...

thanks for the steps, renethx...i thought i had gone through just about everything!
Looks like it is a memory compatiblity problem ...

hangar18valk

12-05-08, 09:58 PM

Looks like it is a memory compatiblity problem ...

i think it was the SYS_FAN header...my mobo does not have a NB fan, yet i tried to plug in a PSU lead to it. when i plugged it back in, no power. i figure i don't need it now...i'll just leave the SYS_FAN empty.

(i put both sticks of RAM in now, DDR3/4, in anticipation of re-installing the Ninja HS, and it works.)

i know what you're all thinking: he'll be back in an hour with something else!

AlienAgenda

12-05-08, 10:50 PM

well i took your advice and ordered the
GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
will be using a e6850 conroe at 3.14Ghz+

hoping to get great results with this and XBMC.

XBMC uses mplayer internal without any hardware acceleration at this time and some sketchy H.264 decoding. i intend to watch mostly 1080 material in mkv format.

With that said and XBMC's preceived limitations with H.264 playback what player would recommend with preferred codecs to launch using XBMC's newly integrated lauchplayer option to allow users to pick their own players.....

walterg74

12-05-08, 11:30 PM

You can still notice difference with Dynamic Contrast on, and when two displays are connected. :)

But wait, you say now it's the same but I just sawanother post of yours on another thread where you say (I quote):

"If you use HDMI audio, avoid a GeForce card (supporting only S/PDIF pass-through over HDMI). The onboard graphics HD 3200 does not have enough stream processors for proper post-processing for SD, and HD interlaced contents (mostly HDTV programs). My recommendation is

- Radeon HD 4550 or
- Radeon HD 4670 (HIS H467QT512P, H467QS512P or PowerColor AX4670 512MD3-P [you have to buy the ATI DVI-HDMI adapter])"

So I don't get it... if you're saying there that stream processors are important for SD post processing, how come you tell me I won't see much difference between the 4550 and the 4670, when the former has only 80 stream processors and the latter has 320 ? :eek:

renethx

12-06-08, 12:06 AM

But wait, you say now it's the same but I just sawanother post of yours on another thread where you say (I quote):

"If you use HDMI audio, avoid a GeForce card (supporting only S/PDIF pass-through over HDMI). The onboard graphics HD 3200 does not have enough stream processors for proper post-processing for SD, and HD interlaced contents (mostly HDTV programs). My recommendation is

- Radeon HD 4550 or
- Radeon HD 4670 (HIS H467QT512P, H467QS512P or PowerColor AX4670 512MD3-P [you have to buy the ATI DVI-HDMI adapter])"

So I don't get it... if you're saying there that stream processors are important for SD post processing, how come you tell me I won't see much difference between the 4550 and the 4670, when the former has only 80 stream processors and the latter has 320 ? :eek:
Differece between HD 3200 (GPU integrated in 780G chipset) and HD 4550 is:

- The number of stream processors: 40 vs. 80.
- Video memory of HD 3200 is non-local; it has to communicate with the system memory through HyperTransport bus, that is slower than the local memory bus.
- HD 3200 is a generation old in architecuture.

As a result HD 3200 is poor in post-processing. It's just a theory. But if you run HQV Benchmark, you will see the difference immediately. :) My comparison between 4550 and 4670 is also based on HQV Benchmark.

renethx

12-06-08, 01:21 AM

With that said and XBMC's preceived limitations with H.264 playback what player would recommend with preferred codecs to launch using XBMC's newly integrated lauchplayer option to allow users to pick their own players.....
Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15228309#post15228309) (hopefully the compatibility issue of XBMC with MPC-HC be fixed soon), and this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15194709#post15194709) for CPU usage.

walterg74

12-06-08, 08:55 AM

GeForce 9300/9400 (and 8200/8300) is the only solution for perfect 24p and 7.1 LPCM right now. Playing BD movies is perfect. HD & SD deinterlacing and cadence detection are perfect too. However SD detail enhancement and HD & SD denoise are weak. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15126202#post15126202).

As of today, are these still the only good solutions for 24p? Also, to know if I should really care about this, besides the graphics component in the HTP, what else should I have in order to be worried about weather 24p will work for me or not? (i.e. what media uses 24p, what rquirements does the image display need to have to show 24p correctly, etc)

mulox

12-06-08, 12:43 PM

Ditto what Walterg said... is the GeForce solution better than the HD 4870 for 24p?

walterg74

12-06-08, 12:46 PM

These are a few of the motherboards I can get for the HTPC, can you tell me if they should do fine? I would ad an HD4760 card to it:

Asus P5kpl-am
Ga-g31m-s2c

Gigabyte Ep35-ds3l
Asus P5ql-em

Would you recommend any of those? (or avoid any for some reason?)

smedmonds

12-06-08, 12:50 PM

mudwiggle

12-06-08, 03:31 PM

I'm wanting to convert my DVD's to a smaller file size for HDD storage. Are there any recommendations for dvd to mkv conversion?

renethx

12-06-08, 07:45 PM

As of today, are these still the only good solutions for 24p? Also, to know if I should really care about this, besides the graphics component in the HTP, what else should I have in order to be worried about weather 24p will work for me or not? (i.e. what media uses 24p, what rquirements does the image display need to have to show 24p correctly, etc)
HD 4xxx is equally excellent at 24p in my environment.

renethx

12-06-08, 07:49 PM

walterg74

12-06-08, 07:51 PM

Among them GA-EP35-DS3L is the best in performance.

Thanks for you excellente help!! Now, any pointers as to where I could start reading some to get knoledgeable on what sowftware I should add and how to configre alld the amazingly numerous settings there are?? :confused:

renethx

12-06-08, 08:06 PM

I'm wanting to convert my DVD's to a smaller file size for HDD storage. Are there any recommendations for dvd to mkv conversion?
RipBot264 is an all-in-one encoder. It's very easy to use. Short guides: RipBot264, An alternative to meGUI (http://www.bontragerphotography.com/psp/RipBot264.php) and RipBot264 PS3, Xbox 360 H.264 Encoding Guide (http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/RipBot264_PS3_Xbox_360_Guide_page1.html). MeGUI is a more advanced front end of x264. A couple of guides: HD to mkv .....the options are endless!!!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13962413#post13962413) (in this forum) and MeGUI H.264 Conversion Guide (http://www.digital-digest.com/articles/MeGUI_H.264_Conversion_Guide_page1.html).

renethx

12-06-08, 08:23 PM

Renethx,
Thanks for the great Thread you put together. I have been wanting to build my own HTPC for a long time now. I am ready to dive in. Newbie but I am sure I can do it. Now for a couple newbie questions. I am debating between your High-End Intel/Intel versus the Premium Intel/Intel. Im sure theres more power, but on a newbie scale can you give me an example(s) on somethings that would be noticed. And my last question(a least for the time being) on the Premium system, I dont understand why there would be one or two graphics cards. I appreciate any of your help! Thanks
I am going to update the Premium Intel/Intel system.

- CPU: Core i7 920 2.66GHz, $286
- Cooler: Thermalright HR-01 PLUS with LGA1366 Bolt-Thru-Kit and Scythe S-FLEX S-FDB 120mm Fan SFF21E, $74
- Motherboard: MSI X58 Platinum, $220 (or GIGABYTE DS4)
- Memory: A-DATA HY63I1B16T DDR3-1333 3 x 2GB Kit, $170, or G.SKILL F3-10666CL9T-6GBNQ DDR3-1333 3 x 2GB Kit, $170
- The rest are the same.

The new Premium is about 30% faster in encoding than the old Premium, and 250% faster than the High-End!.

Multi-GPU (CrossFire) is for gaming.

renethx

12-06-08, 08:37 PM

Thanks for you excellente help!! Now, any pointers as to where I could start reading some to get knoledgeable on what sowftware I should add and how to configre alld the amazingly numerous settings there are?? :confused:
I don't know such a guide yet. You have to dig into forums.

walterg74

12-06-08, 10:23 PM

I don't know such a guide yet. You have to dig into forums.

Yeah, well I should be so lucky! :D Not looking for a "here you go all is is here for you" guide, but just some sites/post/whatever you can recommend to read on info about all this maybe? (software related, that is, ok, I got all the hardware, now what?) :cool:

renethx

12-06-08, 10:51 PM

Yeah, well I should be so lucky! :D Not looking for a "here you go all is is here for you" guide, but just some sites/post/whatever you can recommend to read on info about all this maybe? (software related, that is, ok, I got all the hardware, now what?) :cool:
Vista Media Center

-Unleashing Microsoft Windows Vista Media Center (http://www.amazon.com/Unleashing-Microsoft-Windows-Vista-Center/dp/0789736713/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228621950&sr=1-1)
- List your VMC best plugins here... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1032611)

DVD

- Built-in player with the build-in decoder (or change it with Vista Media Center Decoder utility (http://mediacenterexpert.blogspot.com/2006/07/vista-media-center-decoder-utility.html))
- DVD Shrink or DVD Fab for ripping
- Vote for your favorite RIPPER! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1002316)
- help ripping dvd collection for the first time (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1085903)
- How to enable the DVD Library in Windows Media Center on a Windows Vista-based computer (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930526)
- How To Set Up a DVD Library in Windows Media Server (http://www.paraesthesia.com/archive/2008/09/12/how-to-set-up-a-dvd-library-in-windows-media.aspx)

BD

- TMT or PDVD
- AnyDVD HD (or DVDFab HD Decrypter) with or without ImgBurn for ripping
- My Movies (http://www.mymovies.dk/)
- MyMovies and WHS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14918868#post14918868)

MKV

- HD to mkv .....the options are endless!!!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1033822) (creating your own mkv files)
- Playing MKV files through VMC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023720)
- Is Hardware Acceleration (HA) possible for MKV in Vista Media Center (VMC)? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1035600)
- Getting hardware accel working in VMC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1070439)
- How To Guide: Full DXVA (Hardware Accel) in Vista Media Center for 1080p MKV's (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1096447)

Multiple TV Tuners

- Three ATSC tuners in MCE? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=909663)

MediaPortal: Another great front end.

- MediaPortal Install Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1092168)

walterg74

12-07-08, 01:55 AM

Vista Media Center

-Unleashing Microsoft Windows Vista Media Center (http://www.amazon.com/Unleashing-Microsoft-Windows-Vista-Center/dp/0789736713/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228621950&sr=1-1)
- List your VMC best plugins here... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1032611)

DVD

- Built-in player with the build-in decoder (or change it with Vista Media Center Decoder utility (http://mediacenterexpert.blogspot.com/2006/07/vista-media-center-decoder-utility.html))
- DVD Shrink or DVD Fab for ripping
- help ripping dvd collection for the first time (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1085903)
- How to enable the DVD Library in Windows Media Center on a Windows Vista-based computer (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/930526)
- How To Set Up a DVD Library in Windows Media Server (http://www.paraesthesia.com/archive/2008/09/12/how-to-set-up-a-dvd-library-in-windows-media.aspx)

BD

- TMT or PDVD
- AnyDVD HD (or DVDFab HD Decrypter) with or without ImgBurn for ripping
- My Movies (http://www.mymovies.dk/)
- MyMovies and WHS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14918868#post14918868)

MKV

- HD to mkv .....the options are endless!!!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1033822) (creating your own mkv files)
- Playing MKV files through VMC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1023720)
- Is Hardware Acceleration (HA) possible for MKV in Vista Media Center (VMC)? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1035600)
- Getting hardware accel working in VMC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1070439)

MediaPortal: Another great front end.

- MediaPortal Install Guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1092168)

Thanks! I'll get on those!

Regarding sound, looking at the specs of my receiver (Sony STR-DG910 7.1) I see this:

Dolby® Digital Decoding: Yes
Dolby® Pro Logic® II Decoding: Yes
dts® 96/24 Decoding: Yes
dts® NEO:6 Decoding: Yes
Dolby® Digital EX Decoding: Yes
Dolby® Pro Logic® IIX Decoding: Yes
Dolby® Pro Logic® Decoding: Yes
dts®-ES Decoding: Yes
Digital Cinema Sound™ Technology: Yes
dts® Decoding: Yes

Now, I see it doesn't decode True HD or DTS MA directly, *BUT*, since the htpc doesn't output these, but LPCM and it states elswhere that it accepts 8ch PCM ("Accepts up to 8ch Linear PCM through HDMI™
technology"), I should be fine, right? And btw, in what media are all those formats mentioned actually even used (not meaning the "standard" ones found on DVDs)???

renethx

12-07-08, 02:17 AM

I see it doesn't decode True HD or DTS MA directly, *BUT*, since the htpc doesn't output these, but LPCM and it states elswhere that it accepts 8ch PCM ("Accepts up to 8ch Linear PCM through HDMI™ technology"), I should be fine, right? And btw, in what media are all those formats mentioned actually even used (not meaning the "standard" ones found on DVDs)???
Yep, you are fine. A software player decodes TrueHD/DTS-HD MA to LPCM and sends it over HDMI. TrueHD/DTS-HD MA are audio formats used in BD. DD/DTS in DVD (or other SD contents).

walterg74

12-07-08, 08:53 AM

Yep, you are fine. A software player decodes TrueHD/DTS-HD MA to LPCM and sends it over HDMI. TrueHD/DTS-HD MA are audio formats used in BD. DD/DTS in DVD (or other SD contents).

Great then! :D

So, what is the big deal then with all the current solutions not outputting the formats directly if you can still use LPCM? Is it the strain on the bandwidth needed? I mean, it would need another encoding to be output if they did, so what's the bigger strain, outputting it as LPCM or re-encoding? (if it did). Or is it maybe the downsampling issue from 24b to 16b? (is that still happening?)

sneals2000

12-07-08, 09:00 AM

Great then! :D

So, what is the big deal then with all the current solutions not outputting the formats directly if you can still use LPCM? Is it the strain on the bandwidth needed? I mean, it would need another encoding to be output if they did, so what's the bigger strain, outputting it as LPCM or re-encoding? (if it did). Or is it maybe the downsampling issue from 24b to 16b? (is that still happening?)

People appear to want Bitstream output to guarantee Windows and the player software aren't mangling the audio when it is decoded to multichannel PCM. This is particularly relevant for the small number of releases with 96kHz or 192kHz and/or 24 bit sampled tracks, but some people are concerned that even with 48kHz/16bit tracks (i.e. most of them) that Windows may compromise things...

Personally for the price difference between a Xonar/Auzentech (*) bitstream solution and an ATI 4xxx card or an 8200/8300 or 9300/9400 (or poss intel G45 now?) IGP solution, I'm prepared to give Windows the benefit of the doubt. The improvement over SPDIF is probably huge enough for me!

(*) Particularly if the Asus doesn't deal with 24p video properly yet... (I hear rumblings of a hardware swap?)

lavochkin

12-07-08, 06:58 PM

Renethx,
Thanks for the great thread you put together.
I want to build HTPC to be able to play .avx files and blu ray movies on my 52" Samsung LCD.
For audio I want to use spdif optical output to my receiver.

What do you think about this configuration?
I'm not sure if I need a dedicated graphics card, or this mobo's integrated graphics card will do?
Should I go with a quad-core processor?
Please advise. Thanks

1. Mobo: GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H $86.99 or maybe you could suggest a different MB?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128335&Tpk=gigabyte%20ga-ma78g-ds3h

2. CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz $76.00
or should I go for: AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION 2.5GHz $176.00

3. Power Supply: Antec EA650 650W $59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015&Tpk=antec%20ea%20650

4. Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) $44.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122

5. HD: Western Digital Caviar SE WD5000AAJS 500GB $59.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136178

6. BD Drive: LG Black 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM Model GGC-H20LK - OEM $99.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136154

7. Case: SILVERSTONE SST-LC17-B ATX Media Center / HTPC Case $119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163055&Tpk=%3a%20SILVERSTONE%20SST-LC17-B%20ATX%20Media%20Center
or maybe you can suggest a different case

Thanks

renethx

12-07-08, 07:28 PM

lavochkin

12-07-08, 08:13 PM

renethx

12-07-08, 08:31 PM

Renethx,
Thanks for quick reply.

I meant .avi files.

So,
1. to play BD, would Athlon+onboard video be good enough?
2. are you saying that to play Hi Def content from HD, Athlon+onboard video would be weak?

3. What would you advise?
a) Athlon+a discrete card HD 4550 or higher
b) Phenom+onboard video
c) Phenom+a discrete card HD 4550 or higher
Playing progressive contents (e.g. BD movies) is easy for any current platform. Playing HD/SD interlaced contents (including many HDTV programs and DVDs) requires more power as GPU has to do deinterlacing and post-processing. (Please read sneals2000's post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15237384#post15237384); it's a good summary.) If you play only progressive contents, Athlon + onboard graphics is enough. Otherwise, I recommend adding a discrete card such as Radeon HD 4550. Then Athlon is good enough (unless you do lots of encoding).

lavochkin

12-07-08, 09:01 PM

Hey Renethx, I appreciate your help
You helped me out a lot.

OzTambo

12-07-08, 09:43 PM

Hi renethx

You seem like the bomb and I have a major dilemma.. too much incompatible hardware leaves my HTPC.... Useless.. I am stuck at a cross road and struggling to figure out the right choice in this build.. This is my first HTPC system So I do not know what is the most important...

A few months ago I added a Win TV card to my gaming PC and loved it… I could watch TV on one screen and play game on the other… All was great until my wife thought two 24 inch Monitor took up to much space so she bought new office furniture..

Not a problem she let me add a new 32inch TV to the wall all is good until I realize that I can not longer run cable the cable line to my PC and play it ion the TV..

Anyway I decide to build a HTPC as I love using the record feature and watching all my movies.. I have a NAS/ media server with 1.2 TB’s of music & movies..

I had a few extra Giga P35-DS3L’s laying around that I use to build HackinTosh’s, I saw you like them so I thought cool, crabbed a new Vista Ultimate license (64 Bit), 4 GB RAM Corsair PC2 6400 and I have a Nvid 9600 GSO 384 unopened .. CPU wise I had an old E6750 or E2200 that I was going to use.. so I thought cool this should be a cake walk.. (Here is where I screwed up)
I bought a Antec NSK2480.. And a Blu Ray / DVD burner.. The case looked cool and slim. Then added 2 x 1TB Hitachi drives
Issue 1) the Case fit’s Micro ATX.. the P35 does not fit.. Urgh..

Not a problem I had a few extra ECS mobo's that will work until I get a new one.. no luck

Issue 2) the Nvid 9600 covered the PCIe slot so my WinTV-HVR 1800.
So here is my question… Sorry for the back story but I have to much stuff and need advice on which way is the bet way to go..

Should I buy a new case… that supports the P35 Mobo ?
Or
Should I buy a new ATX micro Mobo.. If so should I go AMD seems like some review are better..

I have already invested more than a few Benjamin’s in this I just need somebody a lot smarter & external to my debacle to advise the best direction I should head..

Any help is appreciated..

I have
Giga P35 Mobo
1 x ECS 945 Mobo
1 x ECS 6100m-M Mobo
2 x Intel CPU's
1 x AMD BE-2350
Nvid 9600 GSO
4 GB RAM
WinTV 1800 PCIe
Vista Ultimate (64bit)
Antec NSK2480 Case..
Blu-Ray Drive
2 x 1TB HD's

What should i use to build a good HTPC, no gaming I have a separate gaming system..

Willing to Buy Quad Core AMD or Intel if recomended (HINT)

Thank

renethx

12-07-08, 10:00 PM

OzTambo

A couple of questions:

- model number of 9600 GSO
- model number of ECS 945
- Which audio do you use, HDMI with a receiver, S/PDIF, analog etc.?
- Do you play games with this system?

OzTambo

12-07-08, 11:11 PM

OzTambo

A couple of questions:

- model number of 9600 GSO
- model number of ECS 945
- Which audio do you use, HDMI with a receiver, S/PDIF, analog etc.?
- Do you play games with this system?

e-GeForce 9600 GSO 384MB DDR3 web link w-w.evga.com/articles/407.asp
ECS 945 GCT-M Only Supports Core2Duo with FSB1333 only has a GMA 950 for onboard Grfx
web link w-w.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Products/ProductsDetail.aspx?DetailID=727&CategoryID=1&DetailName=Feature&MenuID=44&LanID=0

Sorry cannot post URL's please remove - and replace with w

Was planning to use a DVI 2 HDMI cable for picture, sound I was planing on using Optical out from P35, bnut as it did not work have not throught about it again.. the ECS mobo supports 6 channel but I am willing to go with anything for sound, you name it I will go with it I have been reading your articles for over a month and you seem very knowledgeable..

No gaming I have a separate gaming Rig this is just for watching Movies recording TV and playing BlueRay disc..

renethx

12-08-08, 12:00 AM

OzTambo

There are a couple of choices.

mATX

- CPU: Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66GHz 4MB L2
- MB: GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mATX
- Memory: DDR2-800 4GB
- Graphics: Onboard
- PSU/Case: NSK2480

ATX

- CPU: Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66GHz 4MB L2
- MB: GA-P35-DS3L
- Memory: DDR2-800 4GB
- Graphics: GeForce 9600 GSO
- PSU: Corsair CMPSU-450V
- Case: SilverStone LC17 (or whatever)

The mATX solution is the cheapest. ATX has more expandability, but consumes ~20W more power (because of the discrete graphics card). PQ won't be much different between the two.

OzTambo

12-08-08, 12:23 AM

[QUOTE=renethx;15242552]OzTambo

There are a couple of choices.

mATX

- CPU: Core 2 Duo E6750 2.66GHz 4MB L2
- MB: GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mATX
- Memory: DDR2-800 4GB
- Graphics: Onboard
- PSU/Case: NSK2480

Will buy it now thank you for you time... I will keep you posted...

I just realized that the GA-E7AUM-DS2H has the PCIe before the Grfx slot so the GeForce 9600 GSO may work... will try the on board HDMI first though...

j_the_alchemist

12-08-08, 09:30 AM

HD 4xxx is equally excellent at 24p in my environment.

Could you elaborate on "your environment" that gives you equally excellent 24p with an HD4xxx:

1) Display/TV make and model
2) CPU/Mobo/RAM
3) Which specific HD4xxx model and driver
4) OS and software player with version
5) A/V connections (ie HDMI from GPU to Receiver then HDMI out to Display)
6) Relevant settings (registry, Catalyst, software player)

The reason I ask is that reports/posts of good equivalent 24p on an HD4xxx vs a 9300/9400IGP are few and far between. Excellent 24p output AND great 480/1080i deinterlacing and SD post processing are what I'm going after, and are equal in my decision making.

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a low to mid range system. I just need a new mobo, CPU, RAM and Blu-ray drive. I already have a PSU (Antec NeoHE550), case (LC17B), HDDs and OS (Vista home premium x32) ready to go. I'm debating between the Gigabyte 9400 IGP board with an E5200/7200 vs a Giga-Byte P45, E5200/7200, and HIS HD4670 dGPU.

The general concensus seems to be that the 9400 will give better 24p but >=HD4550 will do much better SD post processing. Your post processing comparisons several pages back was striking enough to bring the HD4xxx into contention given its clear-cut SD post processing victory, since this new rig will be used as a SageTV client (480i, 720p and 1080i SD and HD TV), upconverting SD DVD player and a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player. FYI, this machine will do little to no encoding, hence my choice for a lower power E5200/7200 CPU. The media/SageTV server with tuners (2xATI650, HDHomeRun, and soon-to-be added HD-PVR) is tucked away in the basement. Networking is via 1Gbps wired ethernet.

I don't want to compromise either 24p or better SD post processing on this new playback rig, so your comments on how you achieved excellent 24p with the HD4xxx will help the push towards the P45/HD4670 combo IF the relevant conditions of your environment are reproduceable.

Thanks in advance.

Jay

patrickkhong

12-08-08, 11:12 AM

renethx,
given the midrange mATX in your recommendation of Intel/Intel vs Intel/Nvidia, what would be your preferred config and why?
The Gigabyte 7AUM seems to be drawing more attention and getting better reviews than P5Q-EM generally for HTPC.. Am i right?

I am still uncertain to go with the ATI or stay with Nvidia.

Intel/Intel
System
* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775, $133.
* CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000, $36.
* Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM Intel G45 chipset microATX, $135. A cheaper alternative is Intel DG35EC (BOXDG35EC) Intel G35 chipset microATX, $85 (there are no overclocking or memory voltage options in BIOS).
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $29.
* Graphics Card: HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670, $80 (after rebate).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX, $57 (after rebate).
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black, $143.
* Total Cost: $683

Intel/NVIDIA

System

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775, $133.
* CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI SCMNJ-1000, $36.
* Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 and nForec 730i chipset microATX, $135. A cheaper alternative is MSI P7NGM-Digital GeForce 9300 and nForec 730i chipset microATX, $110, which is of better value if you don't need an S/PDIF port and an eSATA port.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $34.
* Graphics Card: ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M GeForce 9500 GT, $68 (after rebate).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX, $57 (after rebate).
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black, $143.
* Total Cost: $610

Captain3

12-08-08, 11:14 AM

Quickett

12-08-08, 02:11 PM

Renethx,
Thanks for all of the support, have been following thread for a while now.
The use for my system will be mainly playback of HD/SD contents. Will only be hooked up to Samsung DLP, no second monitor or LCD. And occasional gaming(have a PS3 to handle most of those duties)
Parts:
Proc: Phe 9950be
MB : Foxcon A7DA-S 790GX
Ram: OCZ Reaper DDR21066 2x2gb

I have noticed that the MB offers the hybrid crossfire(hd3400 series only?), would I need to get a graphics card? If so which one would offer the best cost/performance?

StupidPig

12-08-08, 02:37 PM

Rene
Any reason not too use this board MSI R4670-2D512 Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit as opposed to the His board. About $30 cheaper at Newegg right now. This is second htpc first one running like a champ per your recommendations. Gigabyte 780 MB and 5000+ BE cpu.
I'm also keep looking a 4670 for my 780g board, but I think so far only HIS and PowerColor proven to be able to keep the noise from the cooling fan low. MSI one does looks like has a HS/fan like the powercolor, but I can't found from web proving the MSI can also control fan speed. BTW, I think that both MSI and powercolor doesn't come with the HDMI adapter, which add extra cost if you need that capability.

walterg74

12-08-08, 02:45 PM

I'm also keep looking a 4670 for my 780g board, but I think so far only HIS and PowerColor proven to be able to keep the noise from the cooling fan low. MSI one does looks like has a HS/fan like the powercolor, but I can't found from web proving the MSI can also control fan speed. BTW, I think that both MSI and powercolor doesn't come with the HDMI adapter, which add extra cost if you need that capability.

You people must be either hyper-sensitive, or total freaks... I haven't had any card that annoys me in regards to fain "noise"... and for those that "argue" about the noise "in the long run", judging by the comments, you probably will have changed your whole system way before that... Really unreasonable arguments... (not to mention the fact that under operation, if you can hear it over the movie/media sound, you got a different kind of problem....) :cool:

hangar18valk

12-08-08, 03:10 PM

Lite-On DH-401S BD Player
GA-MA78GM-S2H rev 1.1
AMD 9600
Vista32

I'm running MB HDMI --> TV HDMI, no problems with SD video (have not tried a BD yet). PC Audio works fine: Windows sounds, Streaming net video, Audio CD playing from the Lite-On drive (WMC and WMP). Only problem is i can't get audio from a DVD! DVD video looks fine (WMC).

I think i have the latest firmware from Lite-On (i loaded it, but not sure how to check). Device Manager says i have the most current driver, but it's the standard Microsoft "cdrom.sys" driver. Not sure how to upload a newer driver; maybe the firmware is the only update.

Any ideas on why the DVD audio stream is not getting output on HDMI? No, i haven't tried the analog channels yet...i should have but just thought of it!

thanks,

hangar

dbone1026

12-08-08, 03:10 PM

I'm also keep looking a 4670 for my 780g board, but I think so far only HIS and PowerColor proven to be able to keep the noise from the cooling fan low. MSI one does looks like has a HS/fan like the powercolor, but I can't found from web proving the MSI can also control fan speed. BTW, I think that both MSI and powercolor doesn't come with the HDMI adapter, which add extra cost if you need that capability.

I just got the ASUS 4670 card which has HDMI included. There is a slight noise (prior to installing you couldn't even tell my HTPC was on), but not bad at all. Watching/listening to any media you will not even notice the noise. I was concerned about getting a discrete card since some people made it seem like I would have an airport coming out of my HTPC, but I am glad I did as the noise is well below what I expected

LR2

12-08-08, 03:56 PM

StupidPig

12-08-08, 05:15 PM

You people must be either hyper-sensitive, or total freaks... I haven't had any card that annoys me in regards to fain "noise"... and for those that "argue" about the noise "in the long run", judging by the comments, you probably will have changed your whole system way before that... Really unreasonable arguments... (not to mention the fact that under operation, if you can hear it over the movie/media sound, you got a different kind of problem....) :cool:
I'm not really concern about the noise when it is playing games, movie or TV, but what I read is those cards are noisy even when it is idle. I keep my pc on 24/7, and I still remember the annoying noise I heard at night from my previous ATI 8500DV long time ago. Since then I moved to passive cooling card and now with IGP. Well, be honest, I only read comment from web for the noise issue, may be I should actually get one from B&M and try it out before I comment here.

StupidPig

12-08-08, 05:30 PM

I just got the ASUS 4670 card which has HDMI included. There is a slight noise (prior to installing you couldn't even tell my HTPC was on), but not bad at all. Watching/listening to any media you will not even notice the noise. I was concerned about getting a discrete card since some people made it seem like I would have an airport coming out of my HTPC, but I am glad I did as the noise is well below what I expected
Good to know that, seems I should really get one from store, try and return, then buy from newegg if it is ok.

Captain3

12-08-08, 07:06 PM

renethx

12-08-08, 07:47 PM

Could you elaborate on "your environment" that gives you equally excellent 24p with an HD4xxx
Athlon X2 4850e/GA-MA78GM-S2H/DDR2-800 2x1GB, Sapphire 4550/HIS 4670, Catalyst 8.11, Vista x86 SP1, TMT 126, HDMI to ONKYO 606+REGZA 52Z3500.

renethx

12-08-08, 07:51 PM

renethx,
given the midrange mATX in your recommendation of Intel/Intel vs Intel/Nvidia, what would be your preferred config and why?
The Gigabyte 7AUM seems to be drawing more attention and getting better reviews than P5Q-EM generally for HTPC.. Am i right?
I recommend GA-E7AUM-DS2H over any G45 mb. GeForce 9400 is the best IGP. Unless you need 3D performance, you don't need a discrete graphics card.

renethx

12-08-08, 08:06 PM

Rene
Any reason not too use this board MSI R4670-2D512 Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit as opposed to the His board. About $30 cheaper at Newegg right now. This is second htpc first one running like a champ per your recommendations. Gigabyte 780 MB and 5000+ BE cpu.
Possible problems of R4670-2D512 are:

- It does not includes a DVI-HDMI adapter (add +$15).
- Noise (redtyler1's report (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14679535#post14679535)). As I don't own the MSI model, I can't say for sure. PowerColor model is likely the quietest.

renethx

12-08-08, 08:13 PM

renethx

12-08-08, 08:19 PM

renethx

12-08-08, 08:49 PM

Hello everyone. I've been lurking this thread for a few days and have been trying to come up with a good HTPC system that I will be using for gaming and watching HD MKVs and the such. I would really appreciate it if I could get creative feedback on this system.

System (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11704308)

CPU: Core 2 Duo E8400 3.16GHz Socket 775, $187.99.
CPU Cooler: How important is this? Any suggestions?
Motherboard: DFI Lanparty DK P45-T2RS LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard, $159.99.
Memory: Crucial 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2-800, $52.99.
Graphics Card: HIS Hightech Radeon HD4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5, $239.99
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM SATA, $129.99.
PSU: Silverstone OP800 800W ATX 12V 2.2, $159.99.
Case: Lian Li Black Aluminum PC-C32B ATX Media Center / HTPC Case, $153.99
Total Cost: $1085

I would mostly like feedback about the overall quality of the machine, if I am missing any components, if I picked the right case, and maybe some tips on how I can make it cost less.
- Cooler: Try the stock cooler. It's mostly quiet.
- Memory: Unless you like bare looking of the Crucial memory, this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211188) is better (cheaper, with heat spreader).
- MB: Go with GA-EP45-UD3P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358) and save your money.
- Graphics Card: Consider also 1GB version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161247). It's better in gaming. (Better spend money on this rather than mb/PSU.)
- PSU: 800W is overkill unless you will go with CrossFire (in which case you'd better choose a X48 mb). Corsair CMPSU-650TX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005) (not support CF) or CMPSU-750TX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006).

jdcrox

12-08-08, 08:53 PM

I don't care about a little noise just performance. Already have HDMI adapter from old MSI 5700. Thx

I do not believe you will get sound over that HDMI adapter, you need the one from ATI.

j_the_alchemist

12-08-08, 09:07 PM

Athlon X2 4850e/GA-MA78GM-S2H/DDR2-800 2x1GB, Sapphire 4550/HIS 4670, Catalyst 8.11, Vista x86 SP1, TMT 126, HDMI to ONKYO 606+REGZA 52Z3500.

And with 2 different dGPU's to boot! Thanks!

Also, do you notice a significant difference between SD post-processing on the 4670 vs the 4550? If you had to pick one today, would you go with the fanless Giga-Byte 4550 OR the two slot HIS 4670? Are you satisfied with the fan-noise levels on the HIS ?

Thanks so much!

Jay

renethx

12-08-08, 10:50 PM

And with 2 different dGPU's to boot! Thanks!

Also, do you notice a significant difference between SD post-processing on the 4670 vs the 4550? If you had to pick one today, would you go with the fanless Giga-Byte 4550 OR the two slot HIS 4670? Are you satisfied with the fan-noise levels on the HIS ?
Just note that working 24p in one environment does not mecessarily mean that in others. In fact quite a few people reported (micro-)sutter and/or audio drift and many people reported excellent 24p.

The difference of SD post-processing between 4550 and 4670 is not significant (unless you connect two displays). But to be sure you'd better choose 4670. PowerColor model is the quietest 4670 card.

Quickett

12-08-08, 11:07 PM

You could save $75 by choosing Phenom X3 8450 (unless you do CPU intesive tasks such as encoding). Forget about Hybrid CrossFire. This does not improve video playback peformance at all, it just increases power consumption.

Thanks for the quick reply,
I was thinking about the Crossfire for the occasional gaming I might do, would you suggest even getting a discrete gc or just keep the gaming to the PS3?

LR2

12-09-08, 12:02 AM

- Cooler: Try the stock cooler. It's mostly quiet.
- Memory: Unless you like bare looking of the Crucial memory, this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211188) is better (cheaper, with heat spreader).
- MB: Go with GA-EP45-UD3P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358) and save your money.
- Graphics Card: Consider also 1GB version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161247). It's better in gaming. (Better spend money on this rather than mb/PSU.)
- PSU: 800W is overkill unless you will go with CrossFire (in which case you'd better choose a X48 mb). Corsair CMPSU-650TX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139005) (not support CF) or CMPSU-750TX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006).

Thanks a bunch renethx! ...here are the new specs. Any more suggestions?

System (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11704308)

CPU: Core 2 Duo E8400 3.16GHz Socket 775, $187.99.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard, $136.99.
Memory: A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800, $43.99.
Graphics Card: HIS Hightech Radeon HD4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5, $264.99.
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 7200 RPM SATA, $129.99.
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V, $109.99.
Case: Lian Li Black Aluminum PC-C32B ATX Media Center / HTPC Case, $153.99
Total Cost: $1,028

Also, I have a couple of questions.
1. What's best for a HTPC, 32bit or 64bit windows OS?
2. Also, what optical drive should I get? (I don't need Blu-ray)

hangar18valk

12-09-08, 12:11 AM

Which player do you use? Did you install ATI HDMI audio driver (download from Realtek (http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsCheck.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3))?

i hadn't downloaded the Realtek driver (thanks for the hyperlink)...i just did and still no DVD audio. i can get the DVD audio through headphones, so it's getting out of the player via SATA at least!

on my mobo, i plugged in the "HD Audio" connector, not the "AC '97" connector. they're on the same cable, what's the difference?

on my Realtek HD Audio Manager, Digital Input tab, "Status:" says Unlock in bold (other 3 fields are blank). should the Input fields be filled in? clicking on "Auto Lock" does not appear to do anything, and "Set Default Device" is ghosted. Maybe this tab is for a Mic In and has nothing to do with my problem?

i've tried both Windows Media Center and Player, same symptoms for both.

i appreciate your patience with this, i know we'll get it figured out!

mulox

12-09-08, 12:22 AM

I am going to update the Premium Intel/Intel system.

- CPU: Core i7 920 2.66GHz, $286
- Cooler: Thermalright HR-01 PLUS with LGA1366 Bolt-Thru-Kit and Scythe S-FLEX S-FDB 120mm Fan SFF21E, $74
- Motherboard: MSI X58 Platinum, $220 (or GIGABYTE DS4)
- Memory: A-DATA HY63I1B16T DDR3-1333 3 x 2GB Kit, $170, or G.SKILL F3-10666CL9T-6GBNQ DDR3-1333 3 x 2GB Kit, $170
- The rest are the same.

The new Premium is about 30% faster in encoding than the old Premium, and 250% faster than the High-End!.

Multi-GPU (CrossFire) is for gaming.
WOW, those are some impressive numbers. When you say 30% faster encoding, you are talking about ripping discs, not playing BD discs on a Blu-ray rom drive, correct? How did you come up with these numbers... are they based on real tests or theoretical? How does performance of this system compare with a Q9550 running on a Gigabyte EP45-DS3R with 4gb Crucial ballistix and a HD 4870 1gb vid card? This what I have now, but might relegate that to my new server instead and get the above config for HTPC and gaming...

mulox

12-09-08, 02:18 AM

1. You can do this instantly by hotkeys. Connect both displays to the card. Set LCD on and the projector off and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey. Similarly set the projector on and the LCD off and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey.

2. ATX or mATX? Check AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe.

Thanks for the tip on hotkeys, that will work perfectly for me. The case is ATX (Antec Solo) and mobo is GA-EP45-DS3R, although I just noticed that it only has 1 PCIEX 16 slot, so I won't be able to do crossfire. This motherboard also does not appear to have any pins to connect the Power LED wire from the Ante case... odd. What kind of control will I have over sound... is there a way to toggle it the same way as the video (between use in my office over PC speakers and HDMI out to AVR)

I picked up a Hauppauge HVR-1800 because I could not find the AVerMedia card at my local Frys... any good?

renethx

12-09-08, 07:40 AM

Thanks for the quick reply,
I was thinking about the Crossfire for the occasional gaming I might do, would you suggest even getting a discrete gc or just keep the gaming to the PS3?
3DMark06 Basic edition scores

Here are 3DMark06 Basic edition scores of various Radeon cards. Common components are:

- 780G chipset mATX motherboard with 128MB DDR3 SidePort (SP) memory
- DDR2-800 2 x 1GB
- Vista 32
- Catalyst 8.11 (and 8.10 hotfix for HD 4350)

The motherboard GPU is HD 3200 (core 500MHz). I also overclocked it to HD 3300 (core 700MHz).

|Athlon X2 4850e | Phenom X3 8450
HD 3200|1134|1501
HD 3300(SP)|1537|1940
HD 3450|1667|1663
HD 3450+HD 3200|2063|2633
HD 3450+HD 3300(SP)|2760|3017
HD 4350|2720|2775
HD 4550|3379|3482
HD 4670|7398|7756

Perhaps you are interested in the colored configurations.

Cost analysis

The total price of CPU, motherboard and graphics is (for example):

3017

- Phenom X3 8450, $94
- A7DA-S 790GX ATX, $95
- HD 3450, $20
- Total: $209
- Remarks: No multichannel LPCM, faster in encoding, RAID 5 support, higher power consumption.

3379

- Athlon X2 4850e, $57
- GA-MA78G-DS3H 780G ATX, $87
- HD 4550, $50
- Total: $194
- Remarks: Multichannel LPCM, excellent SD/HD post-processing. This is the ATX, low-end, AMD/AMD system in my recommendations.

7398

- Athlon X2 4850e, $57
- GA-MA78G-DS3H 780G ATX, $87
- HD 4670, $80
- Total: $224
- Remarks: Multichannel LPCM, excellent SD/HD post-processing, good 3D performance (doubles with only +$30).

renethx

12-09-08, 08:11 AM

1. What's best for a HTPC, 32bit or 64bit windows OS?
2. Also, what optical drive should I get? (I don't need Blu-ray)
1. Perhaps 32-bit is easier for a while because many good codecs are still 32-bit.
2. For example, Samsung SH-S223F (or SH-S223Q if you like lightscribe).

renethx

12-09-08, 08:36 AM

i hadn't downloaded the Realtek driver (thanks for the hyperlink)...i just did and still no DVD audio. i can get the DVD audio through headphones, so it's getting out of the player via SATA at least!

on my mobo, i plugged in the "HD Audio" connector, not the "AC '97" connector. they're on the same cable, what's the difference?

on my Realtek HD Audio Manager, Digital Input tab, "Status:" says Unlock in bold (other 3 fields are blank). should the Input fields be filled in? clicking on "Auto Lock" does not appear to do anything, and "Set Default Device" is ghosted. Maybe this tab is for a Mic In and has nothing to do with my problem?

i've tried both Windows Media Center and Player, same symptoms for both.

i appreciate your patience with this, i know we'll get it figured out!
There are two different, independent Realtek audio codecs:

1. ATI HDMI audio (whose driver you just downloaded), integrated in the 780G chipset. This provides audio to the HDMI port in the rear panel.
2. Realtek ALC889A. An audio chip independent of 780G. Provides S/PDIF in/out and analog audio (the optical port in the rear panel, S/PDIF internal connector, six 3.5mm jacks in the rear panel). You can configure ALC889A with "Realtek HD Audio Manager".

You are going to use the first one if you want to get audio through HDMI. Check the Sound dialog box (launch from Control Panel). Does it look like this? (Otherwise you can't get audio from DVD.)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=126370&stc=1&d=1228829592

renethx

12-09-08, 08:49 AM

WOW, those are some impressive numbers. When you say 30% faster encoding, you are talking about ripping discs, not playing BD discs on a Blu-ray rom drive, correct? How did you come up with these numbers... are they based on real tests or theoretical? How does performance of this system compare with a Q9550 running on a Gigabyte EP45-DS3R with 4gb Crucial ballistix and a HD 4870 1gb vid card? This what I have now, but might relegate that to my new server instead and get the above config for HTPC and gaming...
It's transcoding (for example, MPEG-2 to H.264). x264 HD Benchmark (http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=520) is one of the popular benchmarks (a test encode of a 1280x720p MPEG-2 source file using the x264 encoder). For example see this article (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3448&p=18). You can find many articles if you google with two keywords "Core i7" and "x264 HD Benchmark".

renethx

12-09-08, 09:01 AM

Thanks for the tip on hotkeys, that will work perfectly for me. The case is ATX (Antec Solo) and mobo is GA-EP45-DS3R, although I just noticed that it only has 1 PCIEX 16 slot, so I won't be able to do crossfire. This motherboard also does not appear to have any pins to connect the Power LED wire from the Ante case... odd. What kind of control will I have over sound... is there a way to toggle it the same way as the video (between use in my office over PC speakers and HDMI out to AVR)

I picked up a Hauppauge HVR-1800 because I could not find the AVerMedia card at my local Frys... any good?
Check the manual. You can use either PWR_LED (a 3-pin connector) or the two pins MSG+/MSG- in the F_PANEL connector.

Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15195715#post15195715).

HVR-1800 is good.

Quickett

12-09-08, 11:11 AM

3DMark06 Basic edition scores

Here are 3DMark06 Basic edition scores of various Radeon cards. Common components are:

- 780G chipset mATX motherboard with 128MB DDR3 SidePort (SP) memory
- DDR2-800 2 x 1GB
- Vista 32
- Catalyst 8.11 (and 8.10 hotfix for HD 4350)

The motherboard GPU is HD 3200 (core 500MHz). I also overclocked it to HD 3300 (core 700MHz).

|Athlon X2 4850e | Phenom X3 8450
HD 3200|1134|1501
HD 3300(SP)|1537|1940
HD 3450|1667|1663
HD 3450+HD 3200|2063|2633
HD 3450+HD 3300(SP)|2760|3017
HD 4350|2720|2775
HD 4550|3379|3482
HD 4670|7398|7756

Perhaps you are interested in the colored configurations.

Cost analysis

The total price of CPU, motherboard and graphics is (for example):

3017

- Phenom X3 8450, $94
- A7DA-S 790GX ATX, $95
- HD 3450, $20
- Total: $209
- Remarks: No multichannel LPCM, faster in encoding, RAID 5 support, higher power consumption.

3379

- Athlon X2 4850e, $57
- GA-MA78G-DS3H 780G ATX, $87
- HD 4550, $50
- Total: $194
- Remarks: Multichannel LPCM, excellent SD/HD post-processing. This is the ATX, low-end, AMD/AMD system in my recommendations.

7398

- Athlon X2 4850e, $57
- GA-MA78G-DS3H 780G ATX, $87
- HD 4670, $80
- Total: $224
- Remarks: Multichannel LPCM, excellent SD/HD post-processing, good 3D performance (doubles with only +$30).

Already have the Phenom x4 9950 Black & A7DA-S. Should I stick with a Radeon 3xxx series for the crossfire? Is the 3450 the highest 3xxx series that has that ability? Just looking for the most cost effective solution.

renethx

12-09-08, 11:24 AM

Already have the Phenom x4 9950 Black & A7DA-S. Should I stick with a Radeon 3xxx series for the crossfire? Is the 3450 the highest 3xxx series that has that ability? Just looking for the most cost effective solution.
Well,

- 2000 -> 3000 with +$20 (add HD 3450 in Hybrid CF mode)
- 2000 -> 3500 with +$50 (add HD 4550); 7.1 LPCM is a bunus.

Perhaps the first choice is better if you don't use a HDMI receiver. HD 2400 PRO/XT and HD 3450/3470 are the only cards that support Hybrid CrossFire. Maybe you can find a HD 3470 (better than HD 3450) at eBay. (Of course you can add HD 4670 for $80 which will quadruple the 3D performance.)

hangar18valk

12-09-08, 11:30 AM

There are two different, independent Realtek audio codecs:

1. ATI HDMI audio (whose driver you just downloaded), integrated in the 780G chipset. This provides audio to the HDMI port in the rear panel.
2. Realtek ALC889A. An audio chip independent of 780G. Provides S/PDIF in/out and analog audio (the optical port in the rear panel, S/PDIF internal connector, six 3.5mm jacks in the rear panel). You can configure ALC889A with "Realtek HD Audio Manager".

You are going to use the first one if you want to get audio through HDMI. Check the Sound dialog box (launch from Control Panel). Does it look like this? (Otherwise you can't get audio from DVD.)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=126370&stc=1&d=1228829592

Yes, mine looks just like that (although without the "5-" i think ). The 3 format test tones on the right screen work fine, as well as the Sample Rates tone. and i changed the default on another tab to 48k DVD audio vs. 44k CD audio IIRC.

Ultimately, I'm going to go S/PDIF to my Onkyo 705, but don't yet have a cable. thought i should/could be able to get DVD HDMI working first, just to the TV. i'll replace the "HD Audio" connector with the "AC '97" connector from the Antec Fusion case tonight and let you know if that makes a difference.

thanks

sneals2000

12-09-08, 11:38 AM

I have my Gigabyte 780G MA78GM-S2H card connected to my Antec Veris Fusion Silver V2 with the HD audio header not the AC97 one. (Isn't AC97 an older legacy connector?)

However AIUI neither carry digital audio - they are both analogue only?

hangar18valk

12-09-08, 11:46 AM

sneals2000

12-09-08, 11:54 AM

can you get DVD audio out of HDMI? what DVD player do you have?

Vista Media Center, PowerDVD and Total Media Theater will all output PCM2.0 and bitstreamed Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 for amp decoding, via HDMI or SPDIF from my 780G / HD 3200 motherboard. I have connected amps via HDMI (with the amp decoding DD5.1 or DTS5.1) and Toslink with my MA78GM-S2H / 4850e combo - with Vista 32 bit. I have used all three players for DVD replay.

I had to install both the HDMI and HD Audio drivers (the former for HDMI, the latter for Toslink)

For HDMI audio output :

I had to select HDMI audio in Sound Control Panels, ensure that both DTS and DD were ticked as supported formats in the properties of this device.

In PowerDVD I had to select HDMI AC3 Pass through for HDMI output, in TMT I had to select SPDIF. VMC followed Windows Control Panel.

For Toslink Audio Output :

I selected Realtek HD Digital audio output in Sound Control Panel, and again selected DD5.1 and DTS5.1 as supported audio.

In PowerDVD I selected SPDIF output (not HDMI AC3 Passthrough as above) and in TMT SPDIF (same as HDMI above), in VMC I didn't have to do anything extra.

NB : some versions of PowerDVD may only output 2.0 PCM and not bitstream.

hangar18valk

12-09-08, 12:04 PM

Vista Media Center, PowerDVD and Total Media Theater will all output PCM2.0 and bitstreamed Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS 5.1 for amp decoding, via HDMI or SPDIF from my 780G / HD 3200 motherboard. I have connected amps via HDMI (with the amp decoding DD5.1 or DTS5.1) and Toslink with my MA78GM-S2H / 4850e combo - with Vista 32 bit. I have used all three players for DVD replay.

I had to install both the HDMI and HD Audio drivers (the former for HDMI, the latter for Toslink)

For HDMI audio output :

I had to select HDMI audio in Sound Control Panels, ensure that both DTS and DD were ticked as supported formats in the properties of this device.

In PowerDVD I had to select HDMI AC3 Pass through for HDMI output, in TMT I had to select SPDIF. VMC followed Windows Control Panel.

For Toslink Audio Output :

I selected Realtek HD Digital audio output in Sound Control Panel, and again selected DD5.1 and DTS5.1 as supported audio.

In PowerDVD I selected SPDIF output (not HDMI AC3 Passthrough as above) and in TMT SPDIF (same as HDMI above), in VMC I didn't have to do anything extra.

NB : some versions of PowerDVD may only output 2.0 PCM and not bitstream.

thanks for the good info...i'll try PowerDVD too. which make/model of the actual DVD drive do you have? is it a Lite-On BD player?

renethx

12-09-08, 12:13 PM

Yes, mine looks just like that (although without the "5-" i think ). The 3 format test tones on the right screen work fine, as well as the Sample Rates tone. and i changed the default on another tab to 48k DVD audio vs. 44k CD audio IIRC.
BTW HD 3200 supports only 16 bit, 48kHz (DVD Quality). You can't select 44kHz in the Advanced tab.

So you connect the HDMI port of the mb to your a HDMI IN of your TV. You can hear PC audio (stereo LPCM), but if you play DVD movies in VMC, you can't hear audio, right? Does your TV accept Dolby Digital? Try to send stereo LPCM through HDMI. Use PowerDVD or Media Player Classic HomeCinema (MPC-HC; free).

sneals2000

12-09-08, 12:15 PM

thanks for the good info...i'll try PowerDVD too. which make/model of the actual DVD drive do you have? is it a Lite-On BD player?

No I use an LG-GGCH20L (BD/HD-DVD ROM and DVD/CD RW drive - cheapest on the market AIUI)

However the model of drive should not make any difference to audio/video issues - the drive just reads the data files from the disc - which are just straight data files. It is the player software, drivers and hardware that does the audio and video decoding and output. If your DVD drive is delivering pictures it should deliver audio.

hangar18valk

12-09-08, 12:30 PM

No I use an LG-GGCH20L (BD/HD-DVD ROM and DVD/CD RW drive - cheapest on the market AIUI)

However the model of drive should not make any difference to audio/video issues - the drive just reads the data files from the disc - which are just straight data files. It is the player software, drivers and hardware that does the audio and video decoding and output. If your DVD drive is delivering pictures it should deliver audio.

thanks renethx and sneals...i'll try another player tonight and report back. have a good rest of the day!

soulcougher73

12-09-08, 01:42 PM

Im new to the HTPC but i have built my own computers in the past. I have 3questions. Instead of building a whole new rig i was going to use my computer i have now.

1. I use on-board sound right now. Will i NEED a sound card for all the HD codecs?

2. How do i hook the up the sound to my Pioneer 1018 receiver? Or can the receiver decode the HD instead of a sound card?

3. I have a 9800GTX 512MB video card i bought about a year ago or more. Is that sufficient for HD playback?

I think the rest of my system is up to snuff for this. 1TB HD, Vista Ultimate 64bit, E6600 cpu, 4 GB ram.

Thanks,

utee05

12-09-08, 02:36 PM

I am looking for some recommendations for HTPC cases. Here is my setup:

RAM: 2x1GB Crucial Ballistix
HD: WD640AAKS
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 430W
CPU: Amd Athlon X2 BE-2400
Cooler: Arctic Cooler 64 PRO
Optical: LG Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Combo Drive
MOBO: Asus M3N72-D ATX

I may think about cancelling my order on my MOBO since it has yet to be shipped and just get a Gigabyte 780G uATX mobo. In any case, I would like some suggestions for some mid-tower cases. I am looking to put this case in a media cabinet underneath my television and would like to keep the price around $150 cause I don't want to spend too much on this.

zdjelar

12-09-08, 07:40 PM

I apologize if this has been extensively covered elsewhere...

I'm admittedly new to the HTPC game (original xbox w/ xbmc works fine for now) but i am very serious about getting into it mainly because of a concern for the aging hardware of the original xbox.

A few questions thoughts for the season folks out there:

1. From what i can tell (read) one of the main goals is quiet operation. I read that people often opt for passive options whenever possible (PSUs, heatsinks, etc...). I'm wondering if there is a dual-benefit to using SSD HD in a HTPC. Not as a backup/media tank capacity, of course, but just as an OS HD. In my case my media is on a network attached solution so i really wouldn't ever use a DASD or second HD for anything. I'm wondering if the performance would be better due to the nature of SSDs and also eliminate the need for some of the cooling. I'm not suggesting no fan, but perhaps a smaller, quieter fan. Thoughts?

2. I'm struggling with how robust (also big, as far as size) i need to make this machine. All i need this thing to do is stream just about anything of any quality (including 1080p). I can't envision needing PVR capability (i have u-verse and don't how how i could leverage an HTPC), and having a BR player would be an ok feature, but it's not really mandatory. My primary interest is in being able to stream movies (dl'd or ripped), music (unrelated: i want a really elegant interface and not sure which way to go), and if it had good picture capability (perhaps Picasa integration) that would nice too. I understand that some of what i've mentioned is software not hardware related but i'm trying to just give an idea of planned use. My current movies are all .avi's so i don't really have a huge need for any advanced audio/video right now, however, i don't want to be limited by my setup for future use so i would want the best audio/video solution out there.

3. I said above i'm new to the HTPC thing so don't hate on me if this idea is very weird...
I'd like to be able to control music (and maybe movies) from a tablet style screen wirelessly. Perhaps i'm not aware of the niche product out there that does exactly what i want, but i was considering getting a tablet PC (or even just replacing my current laptop which is getting old with one of those tablet PC/laptop machines) and just RDP'ing into the HTPC and interfacing with MediaPortal/XBMC (still unclear which is better for PC) that way from the couch, kitchen, patio, etc... XBMC has a web server front end that can be used also instead of RDP. Any thoughts on this solution or a product out there that already does this? (something like Origenae T12 but wireless and less $$$)

Bottom line, i'm looking for the cheapest, smallest thing that will be incredibly good at the few things that i want. I know car analogies are popular on these forums so i'll throw my own out...Mustangs only do one thing well, go fast in a straight line...but they do that REALLY REALLY well. That's what i'm looking for in a HTPC...assume that my usage is the equivalent of "going fast in a straight line"...now i just the HTPC equivalent of a Mustang. (Note: This is not meant to inspire pages of Found On Road Dead talk...just an analogy) As a side note, i will use it from time to time if i'm too lazy to walk over to another pc to browse internet, check email, etc..

FWIW, some spec/setup overview in case it helps with "consulting":
Location: Family room 18x25 (I have a Theater Room that will get it's own treatment but this is just for the Family room)
TV: 50 Panasonic plasma mounted on wall so would prefer ability to send everything through the single HDMI cable feeding everything from Denon 2809 receiver
Connection: I have Cat6 throughout including at the Family room tv location so it will be permanently internet/lan connected with access to media stored at another location in the house (not sure where yet)

If i've omitted something pertinent just ask.

Thanks in advance to all the experienced folks for your advice.

12-09-08, 08:38 PM

I would like to thank those who have helped with this thread, especially renethx. The last HTPC I built was about six years ago and without the information contained here I'm not sure how I would have gotten anywhere.

Anyway, I am about to pull the trigger on the following components and was curious if I am making any major mistakes. Each item has been carefully thought out and chosen for a specific reason which I'll try to briefly list.

MOBO: Zotac GF9300 (I need dual PS2 and I am just curious if IGP can handle the load)
RAM: 4 gigs of A-DATA DDR800 (should be plenty and its cheap)
OS: Vista Premium 32-bit (hoping for stability)
CPU: Core2Duo E8400 with stock fan (I don't want cpu to be bottleneck)
HDD: Seagate 1.5 TB (I'm always in the need for more space)
CASE: ThermalTake LanBox Light (I like the form factor, the fact it can fit 2 optical drives and still has room for my Antec MM Basic IR Receiver)
BLU RAY DRIVE: LG
Secondary DVD Drive: Lite-On
ANTEC MultiMedia Station Basic for the 3.5" bay (My equipment is in another room and need the ability to turn on remotely via IR)

Thanks for any guidance.

renethx

12-09-08, 08:45 PM

1. I use on-board sound right now. Will i NEED a sound card for all the HD codecs?

2. How do i hook the up the sound to my Pioneer 1018 receiver? Or can the receiver decode the HD instead of a sound card?

3. I have a 9800GTX 512MB video card i bought about a year ago or more. Is that sufficient for HD playback?

I think the rest of my system is up to snuff for this. 1TB HD, Vista Ultimate 64bit, E6600 cpu, 4 GB ram.
A software play will decode new HD audio formats into LPCM (the standard uncompressed digital audio format in PC). After that there are two ways to connect to your receiver.

S/PDIF

If you use S/PDIF of the onboard audio codec, the software player encodes LPCM into DD or DTS and send them over S/PDIF. The GeForce 9800 GTX chip also supports S/PDIF pass-through over HDMI (via a DVI-HDMI adapter) so that you won't need two cables for video and audio. DD and DTS are lossy formats so you should expect degradation of audio quality.

HDMI

You will have to buy a Radeon HD 4xxx card or a mb with GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 chipset. They have a built-in HD audio controller and a HDMI transmitter. LPCM sent from the player is muxed with video and sent over HDMI.

A third option is a HDMI sound card (ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 and Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD). This will bitstream HD audio formats through HDMI. Your receiver decode them into LPCM.