Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 22

renethx

01-02-09, 10:44 PM

How about AMD/NVIDIA :). This combo doesn't seem to be mentioned much. I'm currently using an AMD 8750 with a Nvidia 9800GT. I just needed the Nvidia to scale to 1080p24, my Pioneer plasma does the post processing work; noise reduction, etc... The PQ is quite remarkeable.
The current recommedation of the mATX low-end AMD/NVIDIA system has a couple of problems.

- IGP requires an AM2+ (HT 3.0) processor for proper post-processing. But unlike Radeon HD 3200, HT 3.0 is not good enough for near perfect SD/HD HQV scores. So I wrote "good" for HDTV and SD in the feature table at page 85.

- When coupled with an AM2+ processor, the system consumes too much power (see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15443352#post15443352)).

- HDMI audio lacks 5.1 LPCM. NVIDIA must have received many complaints since its release in April, but the problem has never been fixed. NVIDIA has quit the support for this chipset?

lrstevens421

01-02-09, 10:53 PM

^^^Geesh, maybe I should've gotten the 4830 afterall.

lrstevens421

01-02-09, 10:58 PM

renethx, sorry for the never-ending questions but my motherboard uses the HD3200, is there anyway to use the 9800GT for video and HD3200 for audio?

renethx

01-02-09, 11:11 PM

renethx, sorry for the never-ending questions but my motherboard uses the HD3200, is there anyway to use the 9800GT for video and HD3200 for audio?
No (perhaps), under Vista. Check MultiMonitor Support and Windows Vista (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/multimonVista.mspx). You have to install both ATI graphics driver and Realtek HDMI audio driver for HDMI audio from HD 3200, and NVIDIA driver for 9800 GT. ATI driver and NVIDIA driver conflict with each other.

So your mb is ASUS M3A78-EM? I see in the BIOS setting:

Front Panel Select [HD Audio]
Configuration options: [HD Audio] [AC97]
SPDIF_OUT Mode Setting [SPDIF Output]
Allows you to set the SPDIF_OUT mode.
Configuration options: [HDMI Output] [SPDIF Output]

"Front Panel" means the internal connectors. Maybe you should select [HDMI Output].

lrstevens421

01-02-09, 11:16 PM

renethx

01-02-09, 11:22 PM

Yup that's my MB, you're good. I'll give that a shot. After doing some research I think I'm going to trade in my 9800GT for a 4670. I'm not a gamer, I'm just looking for solid SD/HD performance. I'm not concerned about lossless audio, my Panasonic BD50 handles that. Do you think the switch to the 4670 would be a good move for this purpose?

If so, should I go 512MB or 1GB on the 4670?
9800 GT is overkill (consumes too much power/pricey), 9500 GT is enough for video playback. If you go for ATI, HD 4670 is the best choice for video playback. Unless you use dual the display mode 1980x1080+1980x1080, 512MB is enough (read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15243032#post15243032)).

lrstevens421

01-02-09, 11:25 PM

Will do, I got the 9800GT for $75, couldn't pass it up. 4670 here I come. Thanks much :).

narkotic

01-03-09, 12:26 AM

renethx

01-03-09, 01:07 AM

Renethx-

As mentioned earlier, I built the "high end" Intel / Intel system with the Q45 chipset Asus board. How do you suggest I overclock this system for best performance? I got the Ninja Mini cooler.
Basically you just raise FSB gradually until the system becomes unstable with an appropriate memory multiplier. For example, if you set FSB to 400MHz, you will get 400 x 9.5 = 3.8GHz. See the settings below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121133&stc=1&d=1222918691

To check stability, run Prime95 for a couple of hours (I usually run it at least for 12 hours). If the system is unstable (i.e. Prime95 produces an error), lower FSB and test again. Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12471676#post12471676) too. You can raise the CPU voltage to increase the stability, but I don't recommend it for a first-time overclocker.

zayd

01-03-09, 02:06 AM

Hello, all.

I've been plugging through this thread over the past few days and was hoping for a quick recommendation on a system. I'm planning to build one of the recommended systems, as my pc-building days are dated and I'm not up to date on what's new. I'll outline my needs and I'm hoping to get some direction on which way to go (low/med/high/gaming).

I'm thinking microATX since I don't want a huge form factor but also don't want cooling problems. I basically need a HTPC that will act as a DVR and record/playback SD & HD content via antenna. I also need to be able to play DVDs/BluRay discs. I'll also do some light gaming (CounterStrike).

I know that I obviously need a TV tuner and a BR drive, but my question is on the base system. Do I need a "gaming" level system if I'll only do light gaming in a game that doesn't require much anyway (I think)? Would the mid-range microATX system do the trick?

Thanks for the help with this.

zayd

renethx

01-03-09, 03:13 AM

mike_aristides

01-03-09, 08:45 AM

If you want save some money, you can go with Core 2 Duo E7xxx or Pentium DC E5xxx. 7001 has a built-in IR receiver that is a nice feature for HTPC (otherwise you have to attach a USB IR receiver). You don't need a discrete graphics card or sound card. HDMI from the motherboard carries both video and audio.

Thank you very much for your reply Renetnx

So the system as I am planning it is good???

Is the Motherboard that I am choosing good??? Does the integration feature of graphics and sound on the motherboard create any future expandability limitations e.g. expandability restrictions of using a graphics and sound card in the future i.e. coflicts in the hardware??

Do you thing I need to go for a Quad given that I am plannng to make serious canges on the system at least in 2 years from now (given my objectives of movie and music play)

RAM: DDR2 800 is go or shall I go for >800 or even DDR3 ( given my objectives)

BOX: so shall I go for the Thermaltake 7001 given that the setup is in the budget range? Would you reccomend something else in this price range?

Thank you

Mike

renethx

01-03-09, 09:00 AM

So the system as I am planning it is good???

Is the Motherboard that I am choosing good??? Does the integration feature of graphics and sound on the motherboard create any future expandability limitations e.g. expandability restrictions of using a graphics and sound card in the future i.e. coflicts in the hardware??

Do you thing I need to go for a Quad given that I am plannng to make serious canges on the system at least in 2 years from now (given my objectives of movie and music play)

RAM: DDR2 800 is go or shall I go for >800 or even DDR3 ( given my objectives)

BOX: so shall I go for the Thermaltake 7001 given that the setup is in the budget range? Would you reccomend something else in this price range?
Well, I prefer GeForce 9300/9400 to G45 (better IGP). As for expandability, check the number of expansion slots of the mb of your choice and you will get some idea. Basically there will be no hardware compatibility issue. Quad core is overkill. DDR2-800 is enough. Another choice of case is Antec Fusion Remote Max.

mike_aristides

01-03-09, 09:17 AM

Well, I prefer GeForce 9300/9400 to G45 (better IGP). As for expandability, check the number of expansion slots of the mb of your choice and you will get some idea. Basically there will be no hardware compatibility issue. Quad core is overkill. DDR2-800 is enough. Another choice of case is Antec Fusion Remote Max.

In relation to the motherboard what I ment was that since it has HD audio and graphics build in, would there be any conflict in the hardware if I add another standalone more advance graphics card ( or sound card ) in the future?

In general do you ( as a more experienced user) criticize possitively my system. Would you make any (life saving) changes that I should think about before I utilze the system??

Mike

lrstevens421

01-03-09, 10:08 AM

renethx

01-03-09, 10:13 AM

In relation to the motherboard what I ment was that since it has HD audio and graphics build in, would there be any conflict in the hardware if I add another standalone more advance graphics card ( or sound card ) in the future?

In general do you ( as a more experienced user) criticize possitively my system. Would you make any (life saving) changes that I should think about before I utilze the system??
Onboard video and onboard audio are nice additions, but are not indispensable ingredients of the system. They can be completely disabled in BIOS if you don't need them.

As I wrote above, I recommend GeForce 9300/9400 over G45 (G45 is very good, but 9300/9400 is simply better). Otherwise your system is fine. But considering you chose an ATX case, the ATX midrange Intel/Intel system at page 85 is better in PQ and easier to expand in future (plenty of expansion slots) if you ask me. :)

renethx

01-03-09, 10:31 AM

renethx, do you know the Windows Vista Experience score for a hd 4670, I'm obviously asking for shallow reasons :).

Also, if research serves me correctly the problem with the 9800 GT is noise reduction for SD content, correct?
I don't remember exact values, around 5.9/5.7?

Detail enhancement and denoise are weaker than ATI (so I assigned "good" in the SD entry of the feature chart).

zayd

01-03-09, 10:41 AM

The low-end AMD/AMD system with HD 4550 or HD 4670. Which video card are using to play CounterStrike? If you are satisfied with your card, you must have some idea what to choose.

RenethX, I'm not using any :) I've played it over at my friend's house and I know he keeps his gaming system up to date, so I'm not sure the minimal card required. I can certainly research that.

Do I need any serious processing power for HD playback? FYI, this will be playing on a 46" 120hz lcd.

One newbie question: if i buy a GPU that outputs in HDMI, where is the audio coming from? I'm not looking for fantastic audio (maybe in the future)... I'll just be using the LCD's speakers for now.

Thanks for your help!

zayd

renethx

01-03-09, 11:06 AM

Do I need any serious processing power for HD playback? FYI, this will be playing on a 46" 120hz lcd.

One newbie question: if i buy a GPU that outputs in HDMI, where is the audio coming from? I'm not looking for fantastic audio (maybe in the future)... I'll just be using the LCD's speakers for now.
No. Check the feature chart at page 85.

- AMD: from its own HD audio controller
- NVIDIA: from onboard audio.

walterg74

01-03-09, 11:11 AM

I assume you are talking about 1080i contents (video camera or film based). To use hardware deinterlacing/inverse telecine, a software decoder has to be able to communicate with DXVA API and ffdshow Video Decoder lacks it (?).

No, I meant for upscaling SD contents (DVDs). I´m not worried about higer res contents, since at the moment I only have a 720p TV and a 720p proyector. So the question was oriented at getting the best possible image with my setup for SD DVDs.

lrstevens421

01-03-09, 11:13 AM

renethx

01-03-09, 11:29 AM

No, I meant for upscaling SD contents (DVDs). I´m not worried about higer res contents, since at the moment I only have a 720p TV and a 720p proyector. So the question was oriented at getting the best possible image with my setup for SD DVDs.
ffdshow+Avisynth is a software solution. In this case what you need is not a good graphics card supporting hardware acceleration, but a powerful CPU. My previous comment concerning to HD applies to SD: To use hardware deinterlacing/inverse telecine acceleration, a software decoder must support DXVA API (e.g. Microsoft MPEG-2 Video Decoder, CyberLink Video/SP Decoder, ffdshow Video Decoder+deinterlacing). Try various decoders and find the best yourself. :)

walterg74

01-03-09, 11:35 AM

ffdshow+Avisynth is a software solution. In this case what you need is not a good graphics card supporting hardware acceleration, but a powerful CPU. My previous comment concerning to HD applies to SD: To use hardware deinterlacing/inverse telecine acceleration, a software decoder must support DXVA API (e.g. Microsoft MPEG-2 Video Decoder, CyberLink Video/SP Decoder, ffdshow Video Decoder+deinterlacing). Try various decoders and find the best yourself. :)

Hmm.. well the thing is I already have my PC built, and the card I have is the sapphire HD 4670 (with the E5200 CPU). So in this case, and for that purpose (SD DVDs), should I stick to just the players and their settings, or use some software solution anyway? Does the software take charge before the hardware kicks in, or what's the exact order? :cool:

mike_aristides

01-03-09, 11:36 AM

renethx

01-03-09, 11:44 AM

One last audio question (atleast for today :)) for renethx. Does the HDMI output on the ATI cards do LPCM or Bitstream, the burr-brown dacs in my 3808 are very good and I consistently prefer the sound of decoding in the AVR vs. LPCM for DD & DTS.
I thinks there is a confusion. Unless you use analog outs from PC, you won't waste your DACs in AVR. Digital audio signals sent from PC to AVR in whatever format (LPCM, DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD MA etc.) are first decoded into LPCM if necessary and processed in DSP, then sent to DAC (digital-analog converter).

ATI cards support multichannel LPCM, DD and DTS. Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD MA are decoded to LPCM by the software player, then sent to the ATI card. In theory it doesn't matter where HD audio is decoded into LPCM, in PC or AVR (as the only difference is compressed vs uncompressed), but actually matters (click the link to "PAP and HDMI Audio Solutions" in my signature). So audiophiles prefer a HDMI sound card that supports HD audio bitstreams.

lrstevens421

01-03-09, 11:48 AM

^^^No more confusion here. Go it. Thanks.

barone_email

01-03-09, 11:56 AM

I'm getting a lot of screen tearing while watching ripped dvds from the harddrive. I'm using the old version of powerdvd that will play from a file folder.

This only happens when watching low res DVDs - blu ray and hddvd playback is perfect with powerdvd.

If I encode the DVD to a mkv file and play it with MPC, there is no tearing ( but also no hardware acceleration right?)

I have an ATI 2600XT card on an AMD X2 5500+/GIGABYTE GA-MA69GM-S2H cpu/mb.

I've tried changing the deinterlacing through the config screen of powerdvd.... some work, some don't.....the picture looks worse overall even when it works....I've also tried the VHOLD stuff through catalyst....

Anyone know how to fix this? Any advice is much appreciated.

renethx

01-03-09, 11:57 AM

Hmm.. well the thing is I already have my PC built, and the card I have is the sapphire HD 4670 (with the E5200 CPU). So in this case, and for that purpose (SD DVDs), should I stick to just the players and their settings, or use some software solution anyway? Does the software take charge before the hardware kicks in, or what's the exact order? :cool:
Yup, nobody would object to your trying a software solution. Hardware will never kick in if the decoder does not call DXVA API. (If hardware kicks in, it's not a software solution. :)) From the number of views of the ffdshow sticky thread, it looks like software solutions are popular.

walterg74

01-03-09, 11:59 AM

Yup, nobody would object to your trying a software solution. Hardware will never kick in if the decoder does not call DXVA API. From the number of views of the ffdshow sticky thread, it looks like software solutions are very popular.

Hmmm.. well then what's the point of actually getting a card with good hardware post processing if the software solutions are better? :confused:

renethx

01-03-09, 12:11 PM

Hmmm.. well then what's the point of actually getting a card with good hardware post processing if the software solutions are better? :confused:
No, I didn't say it's better. If you read the sticky ffdshow thread and follow the instructions, you will immediately notice that it's a very complicated and time consuming task to get good software post-processing. Frankly speaking I don't recommend it to everybody. Hardware post-processing is much easier and suitable for everybody.

renethx

01-03-09, 12:14 PM

Renetnx

So something like this will be better??

THERMALTAKE VF7000BNS DH101 BLACK
INTEL CORE 2 DUO E7400 2.80 GHZ LGA775 - 1066 FSB - BOX
THERMALTAKE CL-P0343 MINI TYPHOON VALUE PACK
OCZ OCZ2F8004GK 4GB (2X2GB) PC2-6400 800MHZ HIGH PERFORMANCE FATAL1TY EDITION DUAL CHANNEL KIT
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P
XFX GEFORCE 9500GT CUDA 512MB PVT95GYAL PCI-E RETAIL
SEAGATE BARRACUDA 7200.11 ST3320613AS 320GB SATA2
POWER INNOVATOR 450W P4 BULK
THERMALTAKE A2450 CYCLO 120MM BLUE PATTERN FAN

Actually this has gone a bit above the budger. Would you recommend any other Motherboard?

I am also looking at Mozart and batch from Thermaltake. Antec very hard o find...!!

Thanks

Mike
As AVR-2308 supports HDMI, you'd better choose HD 4670 or HD 4550 (in the single display mode; read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14993273#post14993273)). GeForce supports HDMI but audio comes from onboard S/PDIF. A cheaper mb is GA-EP45-DS3L/GA-EP43-DS3L. They lack IEEE 1394 and the second PCIe x16 slot.

mike_aristides

01-03-09, 01:31 PM

As AVR-2308 supports HDMI, you'd better choose HD 4670 or HD 4550 (in the single display mode; read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14993273#post14993273)). GeForce supports HDMI but it's audio comes from onboard S/PDIF. A cheaper mb is GA-EP45-DS3L/GA-EP43-DS3L. They lack IEEE 1394 and the second PCIe x16 slot.

Both of the recommended cards need DDR3 right? So I need DDR3 RAM and motherboard??

heaphus

01-03-09, 01:55 PM

Alright guys, I need some HTPC build advice here. I'm looking to build a VMC box that will primarily be used for pictures, music, and SD DVDs. I will add Blu-Ray at a later date, I won't be gaming on it, and I won't be using for TV, now that DirecTV has killed their proposed tuner.

Now for the rub; my current TV is a 53" 1080i CRT RPTV dinosaur that only has component inputs. I know I know, but it still has a great picture and I just don't have the scratch right now for what I really want to replace it.

I've actually briefly dabbled with hooking up a PC to this TV before. Back then I used component out from a Radeon 9700 Pro, and had to use powerstrip to create a custom resolution of 17xx X 1000, or something like that. So, what to do now? I was thinking perhaps HD4550 or 4670. Is there such a beast with component output? Perhaps passively cooled? Or, is there a better choice?

jdcrox

01-03-09, 02:01 PM

Both of the recommended cards need DDR3 right? So I need DDR3 RAM and motherboard??

The video card does not care what type of ram is on your motherboard. I have a 4670, running on an Asus MB with DDR2. Works great.

MurrayW

01-03-09, 02:55 PM

IIUC, yup, 3:2 pulldown is done by GPU, a 3:2 sequence of frames (60 or 60/1.001 = 59.94 frames per second) is sent to TV so that TV itself does not do 3:2 pulldown. Some TVs accept 24Hz signals, do 3:2 pulldown and display at 60Hz. In either case "judder" is inevitable (because of 1 extra frame per 5 frames). Many recent TVs accept 24Hz signals, do 5:5 pulldown and display at 120Hz so that there is no judder.Are here GPU's that will do better than others at reducing the judder...my TV will only display at 60Hz, so I am stuck with doing the 3:2 pulldown in my future HTPC.

Joseph Clark

01-03-09, 04:03 PM

Are here GPU's that will do better than others at reducing the judder...my TV will only display at 60Hz, so I am stuck with doing the 3:2 pulldown in my future HTPC.

Here's a good article on "The Big Judder Problem and the Overhyping of 24p." (http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm)

It sheds some light on what 24p really means and why, under certain circumstances, it can make the picture look worse than 60p. ProjectorCentral.com also has a review of the Panasonic AE3000 that discusses its frame interpolation technology, which, it claims, does a good job of cleaning up "judder." 3:2 pulldown judder is different than the problem inherent in slow frame rate film. Film runs at 24 frames per second, which is not fast enough to give smooth motion for fast pans. Frame interpolation makes a lot more sense, IMHO, than the simple ability to display 24p material at some multiple of the film frame rate (48, 72, 96, 120fps).

Bear in mind that I haven't seen the AE3000's frame interpolation at work, so I don't speak from experience on that particular machine. I don't like 3:2 pulldown judder, but everyone needs to be aware that 24fps film is too slow to pan cleanly. Imagine a video card that boasted 24fps speeds. We'd all have a good laugh over that one.

lrstevens421

01-03-09, 04:13 PM

^^^I had my 9800 GT output 1080p24 for about a day, I switched back to 1080p60. My Pioneer plasma does 3:3 for 24p sources but 1080p60 looked best from the video card. It's the complete opposite when I use the Panasonic BD50 for blu-ray.

skokefoe

01-03-09, 04:23 PM

renethx

01-04-09, 12:10 AM

Since I guess picture quality is what is important to me, the Intel/Nvidia combo looks the cheapest way to accomplish excellent ratings in all categories. Is the separate video card part of what makes this possible - without it, the ratings would go down for SD and HDTV content? It'd be nice to save ~$60 if it weren't necessary (not planning to play games/etc).

Also, is the 430W PSU in the Antec Veris Fusion 430 case enough to power this (with a video card, if it's necessary)?
Thanks for pointing out a mistake in the feature table. :) I corrected it. An ATI discrete card is the best in PQ. The mATX/ATX low-end AMD/AMD system is the cheapest system that offers the best PQ in both SD and HD. 430W is enough.

renethx

01-04-09, 12:14 AM

Both of the recommended cards need DDR3 right? So I need DDR3 RAM and motherboard??
Assuming card = video card, these cards use DDR3 memory, but you can't add it yourself unlike the mb' system memory. It's built in the card.

renethx

01-04-09, 12:41 AM

reducing the judder
Judder is inevitable with 3:2 pulldown (whether a viewer actually notices it or not) because of uneven frame numbers. There is no way to reduce it unless you go for even frame numbers such as 2:2, 3:3, 5:5 pulldown (48Hz, 72Hz, 120Hz respectively).

renethx

01-04-09, 12:48 AM

So, what to do now? I was thinking perhaps HD4550 or 4670. Is there such a beast with component output? Perhaps passively cooled? Or, is there a better choice?
Yep, these GPUs support component video. But not every card has a component video out. You need to check that before buying a card.

mike_aristides

01-04-09, 04:57 AM

Assuming card = video card, these cards use DDR3 memory, but you can't add it yourself unlike the mb' system memory. It's built in the card.

OK, so after a lot of brain storming last night I have put together the following system based on the advice given:

(PER.650682) THERMALTAKE VF7000BNS DH101 BLACK
(PER.558272) INTEL CORE 2 DUO E7400 2.80 GHZ LGA775 - 1066 FSB - BOX
(PER.650336) ASUS ARCTIC SQUARE
(PER.555306) OCZ OCZ2F8004GK 4GB (2X2GB) PC2-6400 800MHZ HIGH PERFORMANCE FATAL1TY EDITION DUAL CHANNEL KIT
(PER.526763) GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3L
(PER.513371) ASUS EAH4550/DI/512MD3 512MB PCI-E RETAIL
(PER.301637) SEAGATE BARRACUDA 7200.11 ST3320613AS 320GB SATA2
(PER.700154) POWER INNOVATOR 450W P4 BULK
(PER.650625) THERMALTAKE A2450 CYCLO 120MM BLUE PATTERN FAN

Actually I have downgraded the case and CPU and added the suggested ones. As I described in my previous posts my main aims is to play:

1. High quality music, including an AVR Denon 2308
2. High quality movies
3. Once in a while games

Do you think using the E7xxx will have any obvious disadvantages from the E8500 and the Quad series in relation to the usage I am aiming for?

Moreover Renethx the difference in price of Case Thermaltake 7000 from 7001 is 60 euros more...do you think I should go for the more expensive one i.e. given that I will have a TV attached to the system with the latest media players installed will I need the extra feature of the 7001 which is the media kit?

On the same subject of the case and mb do you tink I will have any expandability issues with relation to slots provided?

I am attaching a word file with the components with links to the provider side

Thank you

Mike

renethx

01-04-09, 07:59 AM

Do you think using the E7xxx will have any obvious disadvantages from the E8500 and the Quad series in relation to the usage I am aiming for?

Moreover Renethx the difference in price of Case Thermaltake 7000 from 7001 is 60 euros more...do you think I should go for the more expensive one i.e. given that I will have a TV attached to the system with the latest media players installed will I need the extra feature of the 7001 which is the media kit?

On the same subject of the case and mb do you tink I will have any expandability issues with relation to slots provided?
E7xxx is enough.

As I wrote before, if you choose 7000, you have to add a USB IR receiver such as Microsoft Remote Control and Receiver for Media Center PC with Windows. Otherwise it is good, there should be no expandability problem (unless you use a long gaming card such as GeForce GTX 260).

vanylapep

01-04-09, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by vanylapep
Just a quick question.. up to today (jan 2 2009), which is the best combo?

AMD/ATI or Intel/NVidia?

Thanks
Are you talking about IGP?

Hi,

I was talking about any possible combination.. i listed AMD/ATI and Intel/NVidia but it could be AMD/Nvidia or anything else.. IGP or discrete..

I am just wondering as of today, which combination give the best result for

a). a good budget/performance ratio.
b). $ is not a matter

renethx

01-04-09, 12:39 PM

Hi,

I was talking about any possible combination.. i listed AMD/ATI and Intel/NVidia but it could be AMD/Nvidia or anything else.. IGP or discrete..

I am just wondering as of today, which combination give the best result for

a). a good budget/performance ratio.
b). $ is not a matter
Which form factor, mATX or ATX? If you don't know, think about how many expansion slots you will need in future, e.g. multiple TV tuner, sound card. Many graphics cards occupy two slots.

mike_aristides

01-04-09, 01:08 PM

E7xxx is enough.

As I wrote before, if you choose 7000, you have to add a USB IR receiver such as Microsoft Remote Control and Receiver for Media Center PC with Windows. Otherwise it is good, there should be no expandability problem (unless you use a long gaming card such as GeForce GTX 260).

Thank you very much for all your assistance Renethx

k_willi

01-04-09, 01:08 PM

First, let me say thank you for all the help you have given me. I am about ready to purchase the components I am missing and start putting together my HTPC. Here is what I have so far:

LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner
WD Caviar Green 640GB Hard Drive
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800

This leave me with a CPU/Motherboard and possibly a video card to buy. I have narrowed it down to 2 choices. hey are:

1.
Intel Pentium E5200
ASUS P5N7A-VM LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9300/nForce 730i HDMI mATX Motherboard

2.
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e
ASUS M3A78-EM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI mATX AMD Motherboard
GIGABYTE Radeon HD 4550 512MB 64-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Video Card

Both of these choices are within $10.00 of each other. Looking at the performance guide in this thread, they both seem about equal. Power consuption is a concern, but I think the 20 watts I save on the AMD CPU will probably come out a wash with the Radeon card installed (25 watts I believe). Do you know if the board in the Intel setup has a much higher draw than the AMD one?

I plan to run Mythbuntu on the system, so gaming is not a concern. Neither is support for a bluray player. I will be ripping my cd and dvd collection to this system and using it for playback. In the near future I will be installing a AVerMedia AVerTV card and using the system for DVR purposes. I will also be using it to surf the web.

Which of these two setups would you recommend for my needs?

Also, I plan on putting a aftermarket CPU cooler on either build (and a better chipset cooler on the MB if I go with the Intel build) and passive cool the system with some slow RPM case fans. I believe that neither system should have a problem with this set up. It this correct?

Thanks again,
Kevin

caseymadaline

01-04-09, 08:39 PM

The video card does not care what type of ram is on your motherboard. I have a 4670, running on an Asus MB with DDR2. Works great.

But the ram type will affect the speed and performance too right? DDR3 will perform better?

heaphus

01-04-09, 09:12 PM

Yep, these GPUs support component video. But not every card has a component video out. You need to check that before buying a card.

OK, I did some checking at Newegg, and I have a few more questions.

1. There are two 4550s that list "HDTV Out". I assume this means component. Unfortunately, neither specifically mentions that a component dongle is included. Do these cards typically come with the dongle?

2. The two suitable 4550s are from Sapphire and Powercolor. Any preference on these manufacturers?

3. There are also suitable 4650s and 4670s. Do either of these give any advantage over the 4550 with a single display, particularly in regards to SD?

4. As for a motherboard, I'm planning to go AMD. Should I just get a 780g, or should I go for something without onboard graphics? Any particular mATX recommendations?

5. For the processor, I'm thinking about the 5050e. Does this chip have the grunt to handle everything that I may run into, that may not support hardware acceleration? Also, assuming good case ventilation, can this chip be passively cooled? If so, which heatsink?

Well, maybe that's more than a few questions, but that should give me enough to chew on for now.:) Thanks.

renethx

01-04-09, 10:33 PM

Which of these two setups would you recommend for my needs?

Also, I plan on putting a aftermarket CPU cooler on either build (and a better chipset cooler on the MB if I go with the Intel build) and passive cool the system with some slow RPM case fans. I believe that neither system should have a problem with this set up. It this correct?

Thanks again,
Kevin
There is not much difference of power consumption between the two (55W at idle, 75W at video playback). I recommend 780G+HD 4550 because of better PQ (unless you insists on 24p). Passive cooling is possible. But you have to remove 75W heat by case fans.

nfuz

01-04-09, 10:38 PM

Still lengthy. :) Among the mATX low-end systems at page 85, the Intel/NVIDA is the best for 24p. Otherwise the AMD/AMD is the best in PQ.

Use PowerDVD or TMT for BD and MPC-HC (with its own H.264 decoder or ffdshow) or TMT for MKV.

I don't intend on playing BluRays .... for now...
You mentioned using MPC-HC with its own hd264 decoder (for hardware acceleration of the GPU I guess?)
Yet as far as I know, using FFDshow DISABLES hardware acceleration...

So I'm confused...

Edit: what is PQ?

renethx

01-04-09, 10:50 PM

OK, I did some checking at Newegg, and I have a few more questions.

1. There are two 4550s that list "HDTV Out". I assume this means component. Unfortunately, neither specifically mentions that a component dongle is included. Do these cards typically come with the dongle?

2. The two suitable 4550s are from Sapphire and Powercolor. Any preference on these manufacturers?

3. There are also suitable 4650s and 4670s. Do either of these give any advantage over the 4550 with a single display, particularly in regards to SD?

4. As for a motherboard, I'm planning to go AMD. Should I just get a 780g, or should I go for something without onboard graphics? Any particular mATX recommendations?

5. For the processor, I'm thinking about the 5050e. Does this chip have the grunt to handle everything that I may run into, that may not support hardware acceleration? Also, assuming good case ventilation, can this chip be passively cooled? If so, which heatsink?

Well, maybe that's more than a few questions, but that should give me enough to chew on for now.:) Thanks.
Go for Sapphire HD 4550. PowerColor does not come with a component cable and you have to buy it.

If you don't know what to choose, just build the mATX low-end AMD/AMD system at page 85. If you want passive cooling for CPU, NSK2480 (or Fusion Remote)+Scythe Ninja Mini is recommended.

renethx

01-04-09, 10:58 PM

I don't intend on playing BluRays .... for now...
You mentioned using MPC-HC with its own hd264 decoder (for hardware acceleration of the GPU I guess?)
Yet as far as I know, using FFDshow DISABLES hardware acceleration...

So I'm confused...

Edit: what is PQ?
Precisely speaking ffdshow does not call DXVA. Some mkv files do not work with GPU HA (check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972503)). For such files, ffdshow may work better. PQ is picture quality.

goud

01-04-09, 11:15 PM

OK, so after a lot of brain storming last night I have put together the following system based on the advice given:

(PER.650682) THERMALTAKE VF7000BNS DH101 BLACK
(PER.558272) INTEL CORE 2 DUO E7400 2.80 GHZ LGA775 - 1066 FSB - BOX
(PER.650336) ASUS ARCTIC SQUARE
(PER.555306) OCZ OCZ2F8004GK 4GB (2X2GB) PC2-6400 800MHZ HIGH PERFORMANCE FATAL1TY EDITION DUAL CHANNEL KIT
(PER.526763) GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3L
(PER.513371) ASUS EAH4550/DI/512MD3 512MB PCI-E RETAIL
(PER.301637) SEAGATE BARRACUDA 7200.11 ST3320613AS 320GB SATA2
(PER.700154) POWER INNOVATOR 450W P4 BULK
(PER.650625) THERMALTAKE A2450 CYCLO 120MM BLUE PATTERN FAN

Actually I have downgraded the case and CPU and added the suggested ones. As I described in my previous posts my main aims is to play:

1. High quality music, including an AVR Denon 2308
2. High quality movies
3. Once in a while games

Do you think using the E7xxx will have any obvious disadvantages from the E8500 and the Quad series in relation to the usage I am aiming for?

Moreover Renethx the difference in price of Case Thermaltake 7000 from 7001 is 60 euros more...do you think I should go for the more expensive one i.e. given that I will have a TV attached to the system with the latest media players installed will I need the extra feature of the 7001 which is the media kit?

On the same subject of the case and mb do you tink I will have any expandability issues with relation to slots provided?

I am attaching a word file with the components with links to the provider side

Thank you

Mike

I would look at the EP45-UD series (there is a L, P and R version I believe.)
This is a newer and better built motherboard with the same specs, UD=ultra dirable which is more copper (cooler) in the motherboard construction.

skokefoe

01-04-09, 11:17 PM

Thanks for pointing out a mistake in the feature table. :) I corrected it. An ATI discrete card is the best in PQ. The mATX/ATX low-end AMD/AMD system is the cheapest system that offers the best PQ in both SD and HD. 430W is enough.

I saw in your other post, if 24p is important, then not to go with AMD/AMD low-end. Does that only apply for bluray discs - regular HD videos will play at 24p fine (output via HDMI)? (I am getting a PS3 and don't care about bluray in my htpc.)

Also, if I wanted to add DVR functionality for getting over-the-air stuff - would the low-end AMD/AMD be able to handle recording those while playing something (say, a 1080p MKV) - or would I want a higher-end system?

Thanks, as usual!

nfuz

01-04-09, 11:30 PM

Renethx,

A few questions about your lowend AMD/NVIDIA build as suggested on page 85.

1) ASUS M3N78-EM (GF8300) vs GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H (GF8200)
If the GF8200 was picked, how much worse would the HDTV and 1080p MKV playback be? Or would it have no effect?

GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2817&ProductName=GA-M78SM-S2H) seems to have all the goodies, is there some key parts that I'm missing?

2) The HDTV title in the chart followed by the caption: "Picture quality of 1080i contents when post processing is done by the GPU". How does this caption differ from MKV? How can the AMD/Nvidia do "excellent" smooth mkv 1080p playback, but "good" quality 1080i HDTV?

3) In the lowend Intel/NVIDIA build, you put DDL, and in the low-end AMD/NVIDIA, you classified it as "good". So my question is, are the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI (I don't really know what thse are besides something to do with Dolby :) )do something more than the builds labeled as "good", or are the builds labeled 'good', better than the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI?

renethx

01-04-09, 11:37 PM

I saw in your other post, if 24p is important, then not to go with AMD/AMD low-end. Does that only apply for bluray discs - regular HD videos will play at 24p fine (output via HDMI)? (I am getting a PS3 and don't care about bluray in my htpc.)

Also, if I wanted to add DVR functionality for getting over-the-air stuff - would the low-end AMD/AMD be able to handle recording those while playing something (say, a 1080p MKV) - or would I want a higher-end system?
Not sure about 24p for other HD contents. Recording is not CPU intensive so playing mkv at the same time should be fine (no guarantee though).

Terrybadman

01-04-09, 11:45 PM

renethx

01-05-09, 12:12 AM

1) ASUS M3N78-EM (GF8300) vs GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H (GF8200)
If the GF8200 was picked, how much worse would the HDTV and 1080p MKV playback be? Or would it have no effect?

GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ClassValue=Motherboard&ProductID=2817&ProductName=GA-M78SM-S2H) seems to have all the goodies, is there some key parts that I'm missing?

2) The HDTV title in the chart followed by the caption: "Picture quality of 1080i contents when post processing is done by the GPU". How does this caption differ from MKV? How can the AMD/Nvidia do "excellent" smooth mkv 1080p playback, but "good" quality 1080i HDTV?

3) In the lowend Intel/NVIDIA build, you put DDL, and in the low-end AMD/NVIDIA, you classified it as "good". So my question is, are the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI (I don't really know what thse are besides something to do with Dolby :) )do something more than the builds labeled as "good", or are the builds labeled 'good', better than the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI?
If you use Phenom or Athlon X2 7750 (HT 3.0), GeForce 8200/8300 can handle 1080i/p fine.

i (interlaced) and p (progressive) are fundamentally different. 1080i is 1920x1080 contents shot by video cameras with 60 fields per second. GPU has to compose a complete frame from two fields by advanced deinterlacing (not just weaving or bob; spacial-temporal deinterlacing in NVIDIA term and vecotor adaptive deinterlacing in AMD term) and produce 30 frames per second. I still see more jaggies with GeForce 8200/8300 than other perfect solutions such as GeForce 9300/9400. That's the reason why I didn't give "Excellent". On the other hand playing back 1080p (films, 24 frames per second) is straightforward; just decode the contents smoothly (without dropping frames) and send to the display in in 1:1 pixel mapping. There is another kind of 1080i: film-based 1080i for which inverse telecine is essential. I leave the details to the article Progressive Scan DVD (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html), the best online article on this subject; it's about SD, but the same priciple applies to HD.

As for S/PDIF, it's not "good" but "supported" (every motherboard's onboard audio supports S/PDIF). DDL (DTSI) is a real-time DD (DTS) encoder: every multichannel LPCM source is encoded into DD or DTS in real-time and sent over S/PDIF. This is convenient (but not essential because PowerDVD/TMT has a built-in DD or DTS encoder) if your AVR does not support HDMI so that you can't send multichannel LPCM.

renethx

01-05-09, 12:32 AM

sorry if off topic but any recommendations or thoughts on using an intel atom processor based machine for playback?
Or a netbook machine for hd playback? I am traveling quite a bit lately and really like the low weight associated with these machines.....
Atom (Netbook/Nettop) is fixed to the 945G chipset (right now), meaning crappy HD playback. 720p may be OK though.

micko_escalade

01-05-09, 01:17 AM

First of all great thread!!!

I was asked by a family member to build new HTPC. After reading this thread seems like Low-End Intel/Intel fits his budget.
I've added Blu-ray player

CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz Socket 775, $84.
CPU Cooler (Optional): Scythe SHURIKEN SCSK-1000, $30.
Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM Intel G45 chipset microATX, $135.
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $25.
Graphics Card: GMA X4500HD (integrated in the motherboard chipset), $0.
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $70.
PSU: 80 PLUS 350W ATX PSU (included in the case), $0
Case: Antec NSK1480, $95.
Blu-ray HD DVD-Rom: LG GGC-H20LK, $115

Question is about case, newegg.com does not carry it anymore, I can get it somewhere else but are there any other choices?
I would like to stay under $100 and preferebly from a well known brand.

If I go with NSK1480 will down the road if needed:
1) be able to add any graphic card (if he has problem playing BD)?
2) be able to ad TV tuner card?
3) being that this is slim case with the above doubts should I go with regular MicroATX ?
4) With the above setup there should zero problems playing rented BD movies?

Thanks for reading!

renethx

01-05-09, 01:23 AM

Question is about case, newegg.com does not carry it anymore, I can get it somewhere else but are there any other choices?
I would like to stay under $100 and preferebly from a well known brand.

If I go with NSK1480 will down the road if needed:
1) be able to add any graphic card (if he has problem playing BD)?
2) be able to ad TV tuner card?
3) being that this is slim case with the above doubts should I go with regular MicroATX ?
4) With the above setup there should zero problems playing rented BD movies?
NSK1480 is a low-profile case. So it supports only low-profile expansion cards. For maximum compatibility, go for NSK2480. Playing BD (rented or not) is fine, but no guarantee that there is zero problem (with whatever system).

micko_escalade

01-05-09, 01:34 AM

NSK1480 is a low-profile case. So it supports only low-profile expansion cards. For maximum compatibility, go for NSK2480. Playing BD (rented or not) is fine, but no guarantee that there is zero problem (with whatever system).

Thanks for the reply!

I'll go with your suggestion.
Since CPU Cooler is optional, will stock one be o.k. ?
All this HTPC will be used is for playing movies (BD, divx), pictures etc. No games.
Maybe down the road adding TV tuner card to record TV shows, depending how he likes it :)

renethx

01-05-09, 01:35 AM

Thanks for the reply!

Since CPU Cooler is optional, will stock one be o.k. ?
All this HTPC will be used is for playing movies (BD, divx), pictures etc. No games.
Maybe down the road adding TV tuner card to record TV shows, depending how he likes it :)
Yes, the stock cooler is fine.

ilovejedd

01-05-09, 02:07 AM

I think I'm finally biting the bullet and building a dedicated HTPC. I've come up with a parts list refined from the Low-End Intel/NVIDIA build.

System

CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz Socket 775, $84.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 and nForce 730i chipset microATX, $135.
Memory: Kingston KVR800D2N6K2/4G DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $32.
Graphics Card: GeForce 9400 (integrated in the motherboard chipset), $0.
HDD: Western Digital WD10EACS 1TB SATA, $105.
PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS370X 370W 80 PLUS, $55.
Case: Lian Li PC-C37B, $150.
Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech diNovo Edge, $158.
TV Tuner: Hauppauge HVR-2250 Media Center Kit, $140.
Total Cost: $859

Thoughts, comments, violent reactions?

Addendum:
-Lack of optical drive on purpose. Will use a spare DVD for OS installation and media will be streamed from a 12TB unRAID server.
-OS is already on-hand - Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit

renethx

01-05-09, 02:22 AM

Thoughts, comments, violent reactions?
Good.

chakotay2

01-05-09, 06:17 AM

renethx

01-05-09, 08:09 AM

Ok, maybe I am missing it in the 178 pages to read... but what I don't get is what software brings this all together?

I want to build a system with three HD Cards (record up to 3 or watch 2 and record 1).
That's the role of a frontend. Check also:

Software – Links to Useful Threads (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#SW)

chakotay2

01-05-09, 08:14 AM

That's the role of a frontend. Check also:

Software – Links to Useful Threads (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#SW)

Thanks, just to be clear then, will WMC:

1) take care of 'season pass' recording with an epg?

2) auto balance the load so it passes recording duty to an unused card?

3) What cards are supported by WMC?

4) I have played with WMC and haven't seen that it recognizes .tp files (which the two cards I already own MyHD-130 and Fusion 7 Gold) use... Am I missing something?

Thanks!

renethx

01-05-09, 09:24 AM

Thanks, just to be clear then, will WMC:

1) take care of 'season pass' recording with an epg?

2) auto balance the load so it passes recording duty to an unused card?

3) What cards are supported by WMC?

4) I have played with WMC and haven't seen that it recognizes .tp files (which the two cards I already own MyHD-130 and Fusion 7 Gold) use... Am I missing something?
1. I don't think so.
2. Yes.
3. All of them (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/comparetuners.html). The support for clear QAM is another story, however.
4. Registry tweak (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14529185#post14529185)?

chakotay2

01-05-09, 09:32 AM

1. I don't think so.
2. Yes.
3. All of them (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/comparetuners.html). The support for clear QAM is another story, however.
4. Registry tweak (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14529185#post14529185)?

nice, I suppose I could just use Cliff Watson EPG for that part... thanks! Now to find the funding...!

zapsit

01-05-09, 10:18 AM

First time poster, and thanks to renethx and all the pros on this thread!

I have a problem tuning clear QAM using the HVR-2250, and am beginning to suspect a hardware problem in the 2250. Here are the config essentials:

MB: Asus P5Q-EM
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3 GHz (stock cooler)
Memory: Corsair 4GB 6400
HD: 1 TB SATA HD
Graphics: on-board G45
TV: Samsung LN46A650 connected via HDMI direct to mobo output
Tuner: HVR-2250
case: NSK2480
OS: Vista Ultimate 64 bit

(a side note: this is a sweet, nice looking, cool & quiet rig! Thanks renethx for all of the pointers!)

I installed Vista, then updated OS and all drivers. Installed the HVR-2250. Installed three different drivers (the included CD, 4.7 from the Haup website, and a pre-release from tech support). Connected Comcast cable directly to the 2250. The behavior is that analog channels are tuned fine. QAM channels seem to be detected and locked, but only get a black screen in WinTV when I select one of them. BTW, the Samsung tunes clear HD channels fine (it displays them as subchannels, e.g. 10.1, 89.12, etc).

My main aim is to use this setup in WMC. I installed TV Pack 2008 using instructions from mikewren.com. When setting up TV in WMC, only the dual analog tuners are detected.

I also tried doing a clean install of Vista Ultimate 32 bit, with the same results.

I would appreciate knowing if anyone else has had similar experience.

Thanks!

grittree

01-05-09, 10:25 AM

Thanks, just to be clear then, will WMC:

1) take care of 'season pass' recording with an epg?

2) auto balance the load so it passes recording duty to an unused card?

3) What cards are supported by WMC?

4) I have played with WMC and haven't seen that it recognizes .tp files (which the two cards I already own MyHD-130 and Fusion 7 Gold) use... Am I missing something?

Thanks!

Assuming WMC means Media Center in either Vista or XP flavor:

1. not really, but you can sort of do it
2. yes
3. Only cards with BDA drivers. This excludes MyHD. Fusion has BDA drivers.
You can use the MyHD (in XP) as usual. You can't schedule in MC, but you can play back the recordings.

HDHomerun plus one or two fusions would give you 3 or 4 tuners, all controlled by MC.

chakotay2

01-05-09, 10:40 AM

The home run looks like a cool option!

Can you explain the not really sort of for season pass?

mwang168

01-05-09, 11:25 AM

Hi,

Finally I setup my HTPC and watch several movies during days off.

My config: E8400, Gigabytes P45, HIS 4670, 8GB RAM, 2x512GTB in RAID0, Vista Ultimate x64, AverTV A180 (PCI only, not combo).

Btw, I hook HIS4670 HDMI to my projector, TV to a HDTV-ready projection TV and DVI to a LCD. It's awesome. The PC is very/very quiet.

I am using Beyond TV 4.9.0 with Comcast. It finds 38 QAM channels. Most of them are 480p which play fine. I find when I try to watch 1080i and 720p channels, I got image/sound stuttering problem. Just wonder, how to fix it? I think my PC is powerful enough. Does Vista MCE support QAM? How to enable it?

zapsit

01-05-09, 01:02 PM

mwang168,
From what I've read, Vista Media Center (VMC) does not support QAM unless you have TV Pack 2008 installed. There's been a ton of discussion all around the web about Microsoft only making this available to their channel partners (i.e. not to us hobbyist/enthusiasts). That said, you can look for a torrent for TV Pack and give it a go. It purportedly requires a fresh install of Vista, so if you're not up to starting over from scratch you may be sol. I am trying the same thing but so far have not been able to see my HVR-2250 digital tuners in VMC.

Good luck!

mwang168

01-05-09, 02:24 PM

thanks, then how do you guys resolve the image/video stutter issues?

grittree

01-05-09, 02:43 PM

While VMC doesn't support QAM, there are two products that circumvent that by "acting" like an ATSC tuner. HDHR (network) and another (PCIe), whose name escapes me. M-something.

TV Pack doesn't need a fresh Vista install. But you should make a ghost or true image of your C: drive since it doesn't uninstall correctly. In my experience.

It doesn't take much computer to play HDTV. 2GHz dual core is plenty.

ilovejedd

01-05-09, 02:58 PM

skokefoe

01-05-09, 03:57 PM

For the low-end AMD/AMD mATX build, what advantage does the separate Radeon HD 4550 card give over the IGP on the 780G board? I assume it's what gives this system the PQ bump vs. what it would have without the separate video card? (For the record, I don't care about games, blu-ray playback, or 8-channel audio - 5.1 via optical-out is enough for me.)

Would getting the Radeon 4670 give any advantage over the 4550 for picture quality?

I wonder if my money would be better spent bumping up the CPU a bit, while keeping a 780G mobo and skipping the video card, or if the video card is an integral part of this build's playback quality/performance. (And if I were to keep the 4550 but still get a higher CPU, would there be any advantage in playback performance/quality other than the usual performance increase one sees in opening programs/etc?)

El-d

01-05-09, 07:16 PM

Several months back I was going to build my HTPC and had narrowed my M/B down to

Gigabyte GA-M78SM-S2H

Seemed to cover the hd playback fully and at the time appeared to be the only one to play full channel audio over hdmi.

Time has moved on and I'm now getting ready to start building... but that suddenly got me thinking that the latest M/B's are probably better. 9300 chipset etc.

So I was wondering if there was something better on the market now that covers all aspects of hd/br playback vid/audio etc.

Cheers

El-d

punksterz626

01-05-09, 07:50 PM

I have a question and hopefully someone can answer to a noob..

Im very interested in building a htpc. I am currently running my computer to the tv direclty with only 2 harddrive alotment. How many internal hdds slot would i able to put into this htpc setup? the more the merrier. How many do you have? I am not interested in a media server storage at this moment. Just the htpc with maximum hdd capability.

renethx

01-05-09, 08:37 PM

oldskool75

01-05-09, 08:38 PM

Great thread Renethx..!

(I kinda wish the first page was brought up to date though.. Sifting through ridiculous number of pages gets frustrating at times.. ;) )

Looking at your page on 4600/4800's here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1029603
(yet another great thread)

I've read several posts now, and most say 'almost any ati 4xxx card will provide 7.1 LPCM'...

And ATI's page here:
http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd4600/specs.html

# DisplayPort™ output support
* Integrated HD audio controller with up to 2 channel 48 KHz stereo or multi-channel (7.1) AC3 enabling a plug-and-play cable-less audio solution4

# HDMI output support
* Integrated HD audio controller with support for stereo and multi-channel (up to 7.1) audio formats, including PCM, AC-3, AAC, and DTS, enabling a plug-and-play cable-less audio solution over DisplayPort (or HDMI depending on section)

(4500 series says the same thing, and the 4800 specs is even less clear as it says nothing in the 'DisplayPort' section and virtually the same thing under 'HDMI output support' section...)

suggests that it will not actually output 7.1 LPCM....
(or am I not interpreting this correctly?)

Also, looking at wikipedia (yes, I know it's not an authoritative source but...)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder

Codename Product Name UVD Version
RV770 Radeon HD 4800 Series UVD 2
RV730 Radeon HD 4600 Series UVD 2
RV710 Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series UVD 2.2

...

UVD 2.2

The UVD 2.2 features a re-designed local memory interface and enhances the compatibility with MPEG2/H.264/VC-1 videos. However, it was marketed under the same alias as "UVD 2" as the special core-logic, available in RV770 and RV730 series of GPUs, for hardware decoding of MPEG2, H.264 and VC-1 video with dual-stream decoding. The nature of UVD 2.2 being an incremental update to the UVD 2 can be accounted for this move.

Wouldn't this imply that a 4300 or 4500 series card would be more ideal for purely video playback (as opposed to gaming).

That would make the 4550 the ideal choice, no?
(assuming that the first part about the 8-channel lpcm is incorrect)
...Unless there's no observable difference between UVD 2.0 and 2.2 (or the wikipedia entry is full of crap)?

Thoughts?

Thanks!
oldskool

renethx

01-05-09, 08:41 PM

renethx

01-05-09, 08:47 PM

How many internal hdds slot would i able to put into this htpc setup? the more the merrier. How many do you have?
It depends on the case you choose. Most recent mb has at least six SATA ports. So you can attach one optical drive+five HDDs if the case has enough storage space. Check the case section at page 1 to see the number of HDDs each case supports.

renethx

01-05-09, 08:54 PM

That would make the 4550 the ideal choice, no?
(assuming that the first part about the 8-channel lpcm is incorrect)
...Unless there's no observable difference between UVD 2.0 and 2.2 (or the wikipedia entry is full of crap)?
Every HD 4xxx card supports multichannel LPCM over HDMI (I tested). I don't know the differece between UVD 2.0 and 2.2. HD 4550 is a good card in the single display mode (check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14993273#post14993273)). Go with HD 4670 if you use two displays. Stay away from HD 4350 if you care about post-processing. HD 4830 or higher is overkill if you don't play games.

oldskool75

01-05-09, 09:17 PM

Every HD 4xxx card supports multichannel LPCM over HDMI (I tested). I don't know the differece between UVD 2.0 and 2.2. HD 4550 is a good card in the single display mode (check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14993273#post14993273)). Go with HD 4670 if you use two displays. Stay away from HD 4350 if you care about post-processing. HD 4830 or higher is overkill if you don't play games.

Hey, thanks for that post reference, and the verification of the 7.1 LPCM (albeit downsampled)

But you basically say the 4550 is crap! :)

Is this something that you think is driver/software correctable, or am I going to go for something a bit heftier?

You also say the 4670 is closer to the 4850...

That said, a 4830 seems like it's in-line with the 4670's prices (slightly higher, but tollerable).. But may have a richer feature set? (assuming the 4830 will display video like the 4850 does...)

sigh... I'm lost... :)

renethx

01-05-09, 09:23 PM

Hey, thanks for that post reference, and the verification of the 7.1 LPCM (albeit downsampled)

But you basically say the 4550 is crap! :)

Is this something that you think is driver/software correctable, or am I going to go for something a bit heftier?

You also say the 4670 is closer to the 4850...

That said, a 4830 seems like it's in-line with the 4670's prices (slightly higher, but tollerable).. But may have a richer feature set? (assuming the 4830 will display video like the 4850 does...)

sigh... I'm lost... :)
No, I say HD 4550 is an excellent card, under the condition that you connect only one display. HD 4830 consumes too much power. I recommend HD 4550 or HD 4670 for a pure HTPC.

punksterz626

01-05-09, 10:21 PM

It depends on the case you choose. Most recent mb has at least six SATA ports. So you can attach one optical drive+five HDDs if the case has enough storage space. Check the case section at page 1 to see the number of HDDs each case supports.

thanks for the info. If the description says 6hdd but also says up to 3tb does it mean tahts the max storage space? i was thinking something along the line of 6hdd x1.5tb each

oldskool75

01-05-09, 10:24 PM

No, I say HD 4550 is an excellent card, under the condition that you connect only one display. HD 4830 consumes too much power. I recommend HD 4550 or HD 4670 for a pure HTPC.

Okay, you didn't *say* it was a crap card.. but the side by side comparison to the 4850 says it all.. :)

But I don't want to spend that much, and you're right, power consumption (and therefore noise) is a concern..

Thanks for the input!

renethx

01-05-09, 10:36 PM

thanks for the info. If the description says 6hdd but also says up to 3tb does it mean tahts the max storage space? i was thinking something along the line of 6hdd x1.5tb each
Perhaps such a description as "6HDD, up to 3TB" was written at the time when the max capacity of HDD was 500GB. 6HDD x 1.5TB is no problem.

mpwoodruff

01-05-09, 10:47 PM

Just a quick warning to all this may effect: Don't plan on using an IDE drive with the MB/Case combo of ASUS M3A78-EM MB and Antec NSK1480 case. The case's hard drive cage blocks the horizontally oriented MB IDE connector. I'm using this for my HTPC build and had planned on using an old unused IDE DVD burner that I have for the optical drive, but won't be able to (no big deal).

For anyone who is interested, my HTPC will be:
CPU: Athlon X2 5050e
MB: ASUS M3A78-EM
GPU: ASUS EAH4550
Optical: LG 22x DVD burner
RAM: 2 GB OCZ Gold DDR2800
HD: Samsung Spinpoint F1 320 GB
CPU Fan: Stock cooler unless noise is an issue.

Should have it all together by next week, hooked up with HDMI video + audio to my AVR.

punksterz626

01-05-09, 10:48 PM

Perhaps such a description as "6HDD, up to 3TB" was written at the time when the max capacity of HDD was 500GB. 6HDD x 1.5TB is no problem.

icic...thanks! renethx:) you've been a great help. If you dont mind, few more noobie questions:D

is htpc still a computer? does it still work like a computer? ie..search web, download and stuff?

renethx

01-05-09, 10:54 PM

SCOTTS VALLEY, Calif. - January 5, 2009 - Seagate (NASDAQ:STX) today announced first-to-market volume shipments of a mainstream desktop hard drive with the industry’s highest areal density. Packing 1TB of capacity on just two disks, Seagate’s Barracuda 7200.12 HD, a 3.5-inch 7200-RPM drive features an areal density of 329 Gigabits per square inch to deliver the best combination of capacity, performance and reliability for PCs, desktop RAID and personal external storage.

“Demand for more desktop PC storage capacity is far from letting up as computer users worldwide generate massive amounts of digital content every day,” said Tom Major, Seagate vice president , Personal Compute Business. “Seagate is leading the industry with new storage solutions designed to store, share and manage all of that business- and user-generated content.”

The Barracuda 7200.12 hard drive provides a stellar combination of storage capacity and speed required for today’s most demanding desktop PC applications. The drive’s Serial ATA 3Gb/second interface delivers an industry-leading sustained data rate of up to 160MB/second for fast boot, application startup and file access and a burst speed of 3Gb/second. The 3.5-inch drive is also offered in capacities of 750GB and 500GB with cache options of 32MB and 16MB.

Note that Samsung already released a 500GB/platter 5400rpm HDD HD502HI (http://www.samsung.com/fr/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=computersperipherals&type=harddiskdrive&subtype=desktop&model_cd=HD502HI) (I can't find an English page). The performance of these 500GB/platter models is good.

Performance Comparison

Seagate ST3500410AS, 500GB, 500GB/platter, 7200rpm

- Sequential read/write: 130.8MB/s, 127.9MB/s
- Random read/write (512KB): 56.88MB/s, 82.25MB/s
- Random read/write (4KB): 0.824MB/s, 1.928MB/s

Samsung HD502HI, 500GB, 500GB/platter, 5400rpm

- Sequential read/write: 102.0MB/s, 101.1MB/s
- Random read/write (512KB): 44.17MB/s, 71.16MB/s
- Random read/write (4KB): 0.617MB/s, 2.198MB/s

WD WD6400AAKS, 640GB, 320GB/platter, 7200rpm (my current recommendation)

- Sequential read/write: 128.4MB/s, 124.0MB/s
- Random read/write (512KB): 38.92MB/s, 83.59MB/s
- Random read/write (4KB): 0.780MB/s, 2.581MB/s

The picture below is Seagate ST3500410AS (source (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/akiba/hotline/20081227/etc_seagate2.html)).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=128639&stc=1&d=1231213982

renethx

01-05-09, 10:57 PM

is htpc still a computer? does it still work like a computer? ie..search web, download and stuff?
Yes, HTPC is a normal PC.

ilovejedd

01-05-09, 11:15 PM

System

CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz Socket 775, $84.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 and nForce 730i chipset microATX, $135.
Memory: Kingston KVR800D2N6K2/4G DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $32.
Graphics Card: GeForce 9400 (integrated in the motherboard chipset), $0.
HDD: Western Digital WD10EACS 1TB SATA, $105.
PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS370X 370W 80 PLUS, $55.
Case: Lian Li PC-C37B, $150.
Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech diNovo Edge, $158.
TV Tuner: Hauppauge HVR-2250 Media Center Kit, $140.
Total Cost: $859

Thoughts, comments, violent reactions?

Good.

I did some reading up on the GA-E7AUM-DS2H and noticed some people have reported heat issues. I'm not sure if it's due to lack of airflow or what. I plan on using just the stock Intel HSF and the stock 70mm case fan. The HTPC will be placed in a shelf underneath the TV with somewhat restricted airflow. Do you foresee any overheating problems with my planned set-up? Or maybe a link to operating temperature specifications for the 9400M chipset? Thanks! :)

renethx

01-05-09, 11:37 PM

I did some reading up on the GA-E7AUM-DS2H and noticed some people have reported heat issues. I'm not sure if it's due to lack of airflow or what. I plan on using just the stock Intel HSF and the stock 70mm case fan. The HTPC will be placed in a shelf underneath the TV with somewhat restricted airflow. Do you foresee any overheating problems with my planned set-up? Or maybe a link to operating temperature specifications for the 9400M chipset? Thanks! :)
The Lian Li case is not great in ventilation. Install SpeedFan and check the NB temperature. If it goes over 70°C at idle, you'd better use a top-flow CPU cooler of a larger fan.

xj-boonie

01-06-09, 01:03 AM

In my test HD 4670 has more post-processing power than GeForce 8500 GT. Which player/codec do you use? Did you add UseBT601CSC=1 in the registry?

How do you add that to the registry, and is it necessary?

dbrown2

01-06-09, 01:28 AM

Hi,
First let me say I have really learned a lot from this thread and Renethx thank you for your hard work and time in that great system list.

I know you guys will laugh, but I am trying not to put much money into a htpc. I want to use a system that I already have and just add on to it if I can. I would love your thoughts if it is even worth it or not.

Very old system:
P4C800-E 2.6ghz HT
Sapphire Radeon X1600 Pro 256mb
4 gigs DDR 800mhz

I want to buy a
Rosewill RC-210 Silicon Image e-SATA PCI Controller Card - Retail
Hauppauge WINTVHVR1600 DUAL Tuner 1183 PCI Interface - Retail
LG Black Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L - Retail
HIS Hightech DVI to HDMI Adapter for HD4K Series Model HHDMI4071 - Retail
BTC 9019URFIII Black USB RF Wireless Mini Multimedia Keyboard with Dual Mode Joystick Mouse - Retail

I have thoughts of sending this to my 46d85u via DVI to HDMI and trying to find a way to get an optical port for my motherboard.

I would like to use it to run xbmc for windows on windows vista or xp 32bit and some type of PVR program. Also I would like to view blu ray movies via the LG.

I have also priced the low end intel/nvidia with the added parts above without the ide sata and pci tv tuner, but a pci express version.

burnout42

01-06-09, 01:33 AM

renethx

01-06-09, 03:28 AM

How do you add that to the registry, and is it necessary?

In CCC > Information Center > Graphics Software, copy and paste the 2D Driver File Path to Notepad. In my case:

2D Driver File Path /REGISTRY/MACHINE/SYSTEM/ControlSet001/Control/Class/{4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}/0002

Launch regedit (click Start and type "regedit" in the Start Search field) and go to the key that you pasted to Notepad. In my case:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E 968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0002

Open "this key"\UMD\DXVA. In my case:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Class\{4D36E 968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0002\UMD\DXVA

Create a new String Value (Edit > New > String Value), name it "UseBT601CSC" and assign 1 to Value Data (Edit > Modify...).

renethx

01-06-09, 03:43 AM

renethx

01-06-09, 04:48 AM

A LOT of great information in this thread. I am trying to build my own HTPC right now and I am in the process of choosing components. Can you guys check out my thread and let me know what you think?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1104928
- 780i SLI is better in the SLI mode (needless to say). Read this article PCI Express 2.0 Graphics Cards Tested : How Does PCI Express 2.0 Scale? (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-2-0,1915.html)

- You can save 100W at idle (with two GTX 280s) by going with 750/780a SLI. But then max resolution is limited to 1920x1200. Phenom II is released soon (more powerful, less power consumption).

- If you have a plan to buy an AVR in future, you'd better choose Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe (revised version). Otherwise X-FI Titanium is fine.

- GTX 295 (dual-GPU, $499) is released on January 8 and GTX 285 (55nm version of GTX 280; 10% performance increase, draws less power, $399?) is released on January 15.

renethx

01-06-09, 08:16 AM

AMD Delivers Groundbreaking Platform for Ultrathin Notebooks (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~129565,00.html)

—The AMD Platform for Ultrathin Notebooks Delivers Balanced PC Performance with True HD Entertainment in a Surprisingly Affordable, Amazingly Thin Notebook—

LAS VEGAS, Nev. -- January 6, 2009 --AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced the availability of the AMD platform for ultrathin notebooks, enabling exceedingly thin and light OEM designs with rich entertainment capabilities at an affordable price. Previously codenamed “Yukon”, the platform is based on the new AMD Athlon™ Neo processor, ATI Radeon™ X1250 integrated graphics and optional ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3410 discrete graphics and brings true HD entertainment to a new category of stylish notebook PCs. The AMD platform debuts within the HP Pavilion dv2 Entertainment Notebook PC ultrathin notebook, which measures less than one-inch thick and weighs less than four pounds. The HP Pavilion dv2 also comes equipped with a 12.1-inch diagonal LED BrightView display, nearly full-size keyboard, and optional external optical disc drive with Blu-ray capability.

“Before today, there was a compromise associated with selecting a highly portable notebook, forcing consumers to choose either the full PC experience of an ultraportable at a high price or the limited PC experience of a mininotebook at a low price,” said Chris Cloran, corporate vice president, client division, AMD. “In introducing the AMD ultrathin notebook platform, AMD enables balanced PC performance, including the option of advanced graphics and video for true HD entertainment, all in an affordable, ultrathin notebook, bringing consumers uncompromised mobility."

Meeting Consumers’ Needs and Pioneering New Markets
With the dominance and rapid growth of notebooks in the PC market, many consumers have grown accustomed to being productive on the go, but now desire ever-increasingly lighter, sleeker and more stylish designs that suit their mobile lifestyle. Additionally, consumers want a notebook that provides entertainment options, such as enjoying and manipulating photos, watching videos and listening to music. Designed with consumers in mind, the AMD ultrathin notebook platform presents consumers with a new choice in a highly portable notebook with rich media features.

“We believe there is a significant market opportunity that lies between the less-capable mininotebook and higher-priced ultraportable notebook segments,” said Bob O’Donnell, program vice president, Clients and Displays, IDC. “Integrating the right kind of technologies will enable companies to pioneer a new category of ultrathin notebook PCs, offering consumers the value they seek in a challenging global economy.”

The AMD platform for ultrathin notebooks allows consumers to enjoy true HD entertainment with available smooth 1080p HD playback, sharp images and vibrant colors. The platform also delivers a robust casual gaming experience with realistic 3D graphics, enabled by the optional ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD 3410 Premium graphics.2 Likewise, with advanced digital outputs including HDMI and DVI, consumers can connect to their favorite devices such as an HDTV for an immersive home theater experience.

A Stylishly Entertaining Notebook
Notebooks have moved from being a PC shared by the family, to each member of the family having their own individual notebook. As a result, consumers want their notebook to be a reflection of their personality and style.

“Together HP and AMD identified an opportunity and designed a platform to bring consumers an affordable notebook that is a perfect balance of performance and style,” said Kevin Frost, vice president, Notebook Global Business Unit, Personal Systems Group, HP. “With an exceptional visual experience, rich features, and robust graphics and processing capabilities, consumers will be thrilled by the sleek design and reasonable price of the HP Pavilion dv2 Entertainment Notebook PC based upon the AMD ultrathin notebook platform.”

For more information about the ultrathin HP Pavilion dv2 Entertainment Notebook PC, which is expected to be available in April, please visit www.hpdirect.com/go/dv2.

Basically this is AMD's version of Intel Netbook. AMD is planning three platforms: Congo, Yukon (released today), and Kite Refresh. Yukon is perhaps good for 720p, but is not powerful enough to play 1080p unless it is coupled with the optional Radeon HD 3410 graphics.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=128671&stc=1&d=1231247886

dbrown2

01-06-09, 09:39 AM

renethx thank you for your reply and I thought that might be the outcome. I do have one question though. Would this card work to decode HD codec with my P4. Then again spending 130.00 for a card in a very old system might not be a good idea.

SAPPHIRE 100228L Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X HDCP Ready Video
Card - Retail

oliveoilhead

01-06-09, 09:51 AM

Thank you for the great thread renethx. I put together a wish list here (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=14164927)(posted below too) using your recommendations on page 85 and I have a couple of questions that I hope you or someone can answer.

1) Will I be able to hook this HTPC directly to my Sony Bravia 120 Hz 46" lcd via an HDMI cable?

2) Will the HDMI provide the sound too? Or do I need to run another cable? (I did not pick a sound card)

3) What additional software do I need other than what you posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14240185#post14240185)?

4) Do you see anything obviously wrong with my choices, or do you see any improvements that can be made.

5) 4 gig memory enough?

MicroATX System
High-End
Intel/Intel

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz $187.99
CPU Cooler: Scythe SCMNJ-1000 $35.99
Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM LGA 775 $134.99
Memory: A-DATA 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 $41.99
Graphics Card: HIS Hightech H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit $164.99
HDD: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS $74.99
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V $68.99
Case: Antec Black Aluminum / Steel Fusion Remote Black Micro ATX $189.95

Keyboard: Microsoft 69Z-00001 OEM Silver USB Bluetooth $89.99
DVD: LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray DVD-ROM SATA $89.99
OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 64-bit $179.99
Remote: Logitech 915-000035 Universal Infrared Harmony One $219.99

greenender

01-06-09, 09:52 AM

renethx

01-06-09, 10:01 AM

renethx

01-06-09, 10:11 AM

Thank you for the great thread renethx. I put together a wish list here (http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=14164927)(posted below too) using your recommendations on page 85 and I have a couple of questions that I hope you or someone can answer.

1) Will I be able to hook this HTPC directly to my Sony Bravia 120 Hz 46" lcd via an HDMI cable?

2) Will the HDMI provide the sound too? Or do I need to run another cable? (I did not pick a sound card)

3) What additional software do I need other than what you posted here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14240185#post14240185)?

4) Do you see anything obviously wrong with my choices, or do you see any improvements that can be made.

5) 4 gig memory enough?
First this high-end system is a gaming HTPC. Do you play games? For a pure HTPC, I recommend the mid-range system.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. A Blu-ray software player is enough at first (if PowerDVD OEM is bundled with the BD drive, you may use it; it's a 2ch version however).
5. Yes, for HTPC.

renethx

01-06-09, 10:23 AM

Hi,

I have read your latest recommendations for mATX HTPC systems.
There is one problem I came across, I wonder if anybody else sees it also.

All (or almost all) recommended mATX mainboards have 1 PCI-Express slot and 2 PCI slots (for example: ASUS M3N78-EM). The PCI-Express slot is situated next to a PCI slot. Almost all graphic card today take 2 slots (because of the radiator & fan), so you only have 1 PCI slot left ...Am I right?

Next question:
I found an ASUS mainboard, for a HTPC, which has a PCI-Ex1 slot between PCI-Ex16 and normal PCI: Asus M2N68-VM (You can check it on newegg.com). What do you think about it? Is this a solution, to be able to use 2x normal PCI ?
So I may assume you want to use two PCI cards in addition to a PCIe x16 graphics card (which possibly occupies two slots), right? M2N68-VM is an AM2 mb, which I don't recommend (no CPU upgrade path). I recommend these two ZOTAC mbs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=22&Description=&Type=&N=2000200022&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&Manufactory=12150&PropertyCodeValue=719%3A37156&PropertyCodeValue=719%3A41072) instead.

With HD 4550+780G, you can use two PCI slot (the low-end AMD/AMD).

oliveoilhead

01-06-09, 10:37 AM

First this high-end system is a gaming HTPC. Do you play games? For a pure HTPC, I recommend the mid-range system.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. A Blu-ray software player is enough at first (if PowerDVD OEM is bundled with the BD drive, you may use it; it's a 2ch version however).
5. Yes, for HTPC.

There will be some gaming going on probably, especially with the kids.

Thanks again.

greenender

01-06-09, 10:44 AM

So I may assume you want to use two PCI cards in addition to a PCIe x16 graphics card (which possibly occupies two slots), right? M2N68-VM is an AM2 mb, which I don't recommend (no CPU upgrade path). I recommend these two ZOTAC mbs instead.

With HD 4550+780G, you can use two PCI slot (the low-end AMD/AMD).

Thanks for the answer, that's exactly what I need. Correct me if I'm wrong, but M2N68-VM is an AM2/AM2+ board with AM3 support (see www[dot]asus[dot]com + M2N68-VM in search box), so there is a CPU upgrade path, right ?

And last question: do you know if there exists a mATX board with 2 x GB LAN onboard? That whould solve the problem too (I need either 2x GB LAN or a PCI slot for a LAN card)

rmmeli

01-06-09, 10:46 AM

hey thanks renethx and rmmeli, i was wondering how to do this as well!

do we still need to set the manual speed switches? (to High maybe?)
renethx, I ordered all the parts you mentioned and connected it up but no fan speeds are being reported apart from the cpu fan (that was being reported before doing this anyway). I have enabled the System Smart Fan Control in the bios but still no fan speeds are being reported either in the BIOS or by speedfan (I assume they use the same data anyway). The case fans are working. Maybe my motherboard (GA-MA790GP-DS4H) does not support speed control of the system fans or could there be something else wrong? I am not sure how the case fans would be controlled anyway as there are ony two wires going to them. They are also connected to switches on the case.

renethx

01-06-09, 10:58 AM

Thanks for the answer, that's exactly what I need. Correct me if I'm wrong, but M2N68-VM is an AM2/AM2+ board with AM3 support (see www[dot]asus[dot]com + M2N68-VM in search box), so there is a CPU upgrade path, right ?

And last question: do you know if there exists a mATX board with 2 x GB LAN onboard? That whould solve the problem too (I need either 2x GB LAN or a PCI slot for a LAN card)
M2N68-VM supports an AM2+ processor (precisely speaking, every AM2+ processor is designed to work with an old AM2 mb), but in a limited way. Especially HyperTransport bus runs only at 1000MHz (a native AM2+ mb support HyperTransport 1800MHz) and Cool'n'Quiet does not work correctly.

No there is no such mATX mb. You can find a PCIe Gb LAN controller card (though pricey I guess).

walterg74

01-06-09, 11:10 AM

It depends on the case you choose. Most recent mb has at least six SATA ports. So you can attach one optical drive+five HDDs if the case has enough storage space. Check the case section at page 1 to see the number of HDDs each case supports.

renethx:

regarding this subject, was there a thread or post about building the media storage server or whatever it's called?

I built my htpc, but want to build a dedicated server for storing all my documents and media, and to stream movies from there. I want to go with a PC rather than a NAS storage device type for the flexibility.

Questions:

1) Hardware:

I want to spend the least possible $, being that this function does not require much processing power, and practically nothing graphics wise, so:

a) what would be a good MB/CPU combo?

b) what's the best thing to use in regards to connecting the disks and why? (in regards to using: the built in SATA ports on the MB, an addon card, both?)

2) Software:

c) What's a better solution: something like XP/Vista with a simple share (or linux with samba, whatever) or something like unraid or freenas?

Thanks!!! :cool:

renethx

01-06-09, 11:13 AM

renethx, I ordered all the parts you mentioned and connected it up but no fan speeds are being reported apart from the cpu fan (that was being reported before doing this anyway). I have enabled the System Smart Fan Control in the bios but still no fan speeds are being reported either in the BIOS or by speedfan (I assume they use the same data anyway). The case fans are working. Maybe my motherboard (GA-MA790GP-DS4H) does not support speed control of the system fans or could there be something else wrong? I am not sure how the case fans would be controlled anyway as there are ony two wires going to them. They are also connected to switches on the case.
The mb supports Smart Fan for CPU_FAN and SYS_FAN1. Which case and fan do you use? If the fan has only two wires, the fan speed is not reported (a third wire for rmp sensor is required for this purpose). But you can still control fan speed (it adjusts voltage supplied to the fan connector).

renethx

01-06-09, 11:22 AM

renethx:

regarding this subject, was there a thread or post about building the media storage server or whatever it's called?

I built my htpc, but want to build a dedicated server for storing all my documents and media, and to stream movies from there. I want to go with a PC rather than a NAS storage device type for the flexibility.

Questions:

1) Hardware:

I want to spend the least possible $, being that this function does not require much processing power, and practically nothing graphics wise, so:

a) what would be a good MB/CPU combo?

b) what's the best thing to use in regards to connecting the disks and why? (in regards to using: the built in SATA ports on the MB, an addon card, both?)

2) Software:

c) What's a better solution: something like XP/Vista with a simple share (or linux with samba, whatever) or something like unraid or freenas?

Thanks!!! :cool:
Look at the 15TB (16 HDD) System in the Home Media Server section at page 85. You can use a cheaper case such as Antec or Cooler Master tower case (or CODEGEN 4U-500-CA 4U rackmount case at page 1). Windows Home Server is like XP. UnRAID is a Linux flavor, but easy to work with. There is a thread Guide To Building A Media Storage Server (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1071162), but it seems that it has been hijacked by high-performance RAID controller users. :)

rmmeli

01-06-09, 11:30 AM

The mb supports Smart Fan for CPU_FAN and SYS_FAN1. Which case and fan do you use? If the fan has only two wires, the fan speed is not reported (a third wire for rmp sensor is required for this purpose). But you can still control fan speed (it adjusts voltage supplied to the fan connector).
I am using the Antec Remote Fusion Max case. I did not try SYS_FAN1 as that is a four pin header and those parts you mentioned are 3 pin. So do I need to get a 4 pin to 3 pin cable and try that?

Thanks.

renethx

01-06-09, 11:33 AM

I am using the Antec Remote Fusion case. I did not try SYS_FAN1 as that is a four pin header and those parts you mentioned are 3 pin. So do I need to get a 4 pin to 3 pin cable and try that?

Thanks.
IIRC, SYS_FAN1 supports a 3-pin fan as well (switching between PWM mode [4-pin] and voltage mode [3-pin] is automatic).

walterg74

01-06-09, 11:43 AM

Look at the 15TB (16 HDD) System in the Home Media Server section at page 85. You can use a cheaper case such as Antec or Cooler Master tower case (or CODEGEN 4U-500-CA 4U rackmount case at page 1). Windows Home Server is like XP. UnRAID is a Linux flavor, but easy to work with. There is a thread Guide To Building A Media Storage Server (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1071162), but it seems that it has been hijacked by high-performance RAID controller users. :)

I looked at p85, and I'll look at that thread now, however... let me rephrase the above a bit because all that doesn't fall into my personal situation :D

1) I live in Argentina, south America. Most of the stuff regarding cases, brackets, etc. is impossible for me to get here.

2) I live in Argentina :) which means that prices for me are a) anywhere from 30% to 100% more thatn what they cost in the US, depending on the item (for example high-end cases cost twice what they do in the US) and also b) due to the exchange rate, aprox. 3.50 to 1, imagine it represents for me what 3-4 times that cost represents for ppl. in the US (for example a $100 CPU costs me as much as if it cost you say $350).

With those consideration, while I would love to build something like the system you recommended, it's practically impossible for now (in a ballpark figure, it would be like if you had to spend about 8000 dollars on that with the disks and all).

So, is there anything you can recommend, considering that I want to start small (maybe just 3 or 4 500GB disks to start off with) and that I will preferably build this in a standard PC case? (also with the question above as if to use the MB's SATA ports or get a card, etc.).

Thanks!!!! :D

renethx

01-06-09, 11:52 AM

I looked at p85, and I'll look at that thread now, however... let me rephrase the above a bit because all that doesn't fall into my personal situation :D

1) I live in Argentina, south America. Most of the stuff regarding cases, brackets, etc. is impossible for me to get here.

2) I live in Argentina :) which means that prices for me are a) anywhere from 30% to 100% more thatn what they cost in the US, depending on the item (for example high-end cases cost twice what they do in the US) and also b) due to the exchange rate, aprox. 3.50 to 1, imagine it represents for me what 3-4 times that cost represents for ppl. in the US (for example a $100 CPU costs me as much as if it cost you say $350).

With those consideration, while I would love to build something like the system you recommended, it's practically impossible for now (in a ballpark figure, it would be like if you had to spend about 8000 dollars on that with the disks and all).

So, is there anything you can recommend, considering that I want to start small (maybe just 3 or 4 500GB disks to start off with) and that I will preferably build this in a standard PC case? (also with the question above as if to use the MB's SATA ports or get a card, etc.).

Thanks!!!! :D
Don't worry. WHS or unRAID does not require a high-performance system. Many people use spare parts to build a server. Use onboard SATA ports first. As storage space is growing, you can add SATA controller cards later. There are plenty of cheap cards. You can use any case if it holds as many HDDs as you want. For example look at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11812355#post11812355). The case looks great. But components inside are cheap (Celeron single-core, 1GB DDR ...).

ilovejedd

01-06-09, 12:24 PM

The Lian Li case is not great in ventilation. Install SpeedFan and check the NB temperature. If it goes over 70°C at idle, you'd better use a top-flow CPU cooler of a larger fan.

Thanks. I guess I'll be ordering a Scythe Shuriken along with the rest of the parts. :)

zayd

01-06-09, 12:32 PM

The low-end AMD/AMD system with HD 4550 or HD 4670. Which video card are using to play CounterStrike? If you are satisfied with your card, you must have some idea what to choose.

Renethx, which HD4670 do you recommend? A NewEgg search reveals quite a few by different manufacturers. Should I choose any that fits?

And by the way, you are a wealth of information. Thanks for sharing it.

zayd

walterg74

01-06-09, 12:47 PM

Don't worry. WHS or unRAID does not require a high-performance system. Many people use spare parts to build a server. Use onboard SATA ports first. As storage space is growing, you can add SATA controller cards later. There are plenty of cheap cards. You can use any case if it holds as many HDDs as you want. For example look at this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11812355#post11812355). The case looks great. But components inside are cheap (Celeron single-core, 1GB DDR ...).

Nice... :D

The best I found is something similar to this:

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-46018078-gabinete-torre-duplicadora-cirkuit-planet-11-bahias-ckp-1556-_JM

for 67 US dollars, or this:

http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-47316115-imperdible-gabinete-torre-duplicadora-14-bahias-ckp-1560-_JM

for 79 US dollars:

Seems to fit the purpose fine, and have enough space to add disks later.

What do you think?

Also, just as the system you just pointed out, do you think that for this purpose a Celeron 430 and 1 Gb RAM (2's not a problem anyway) would be up to the task? (or maybe an Athlon X2 5000+ or 5600+ could also be an option)

rmmeli

01-06-09, 01:02 PM

IIRC, SYS_FAN1 supports a 3-pin fan as well (switching between PWM mode [4-pin] and voltage mode [3-pin] is automatic).
Aha, you learn something every day! OK. So I have connected the cables now. SpeedFan is a little confusing too me (sorry). I see Fan1 which is the CPU fan and I also have Fan2 to Fan 5 all reporting 0 rpm. Now I see below it Speed01, Speed02 and Speed03 all being varied. I am not sure what they refer to but they are changing but no fan speeds are changing. When I look at the Configure tab I see these Speeds have a Chip called IT878F, Sensor Pwm1, ISA in Bus and all have same address. Any simple explanation of what I have to do. I tried reading the help with SpeedFan
but didn't understand it (sorry).

Edit: Figured it out in the end. Thanks renethx. I now have the case fans and the cpu fan working nicely under software control.

MurrayW

01-06-09, 01:11 PM

Aha, you learn something every day! OK. So I have connected the cables now. SpeedFan is a little confusing too me (sorry). I see Fan1 which is the CPU fan and I also have Fan2 to Fan 5 all reporting 0 rpm. Now I see below it Speed01, Speed02 and Speed03 all being varied. I am not sure what they refer to but they are changing but no fan speeds are changing. When I look at the Configure tab I see these Speeds have a Chip called IT878F, Sensor Pwm1, ISA in Bus and all have same address. Any simple explanation of what I have to do. I tried reading the help with SpeedFan but didn't understand it (sorry)For those of you that use your HTPC for gaming, what keyboard/mouse do you use? I would need to have it connected wirelessly either through bluetooth or USB. Also, my HTPC will be behind the wall that my TV is mounted on and we would typically be sitting about 10-12 ft away from the HTPC on the other side of the wall. In the past (several years ago, so perhaps the technology has gotten better) I have used a gyration RF mouse and keyboard for just normal browsing/input and wasn't very pleased with its performance.

Clint1079

01-06-09, 01:14 PM

Renethx - I pulled the trigger and purchased the Mini-ITX system you spec'd out. I'll keep you posted how it goes. I can't thank you enough for the wealth of infomation on here. I've been following the thread for awhile now.

Other than what you posted spec wise on the Mini-ITX System on page 85, was there any additional comments you posted on your opinion of it?

Many Thanks!

smburns25

01-06-09, 01:19 PM

Sorry if this has been asked before........

I have a HTPC already established using a Zalman HD160 case. The HTPC has about 3 Terabytes of storage which is almost filled. What I would like to set up is an external 8-12 bay raid array, but I have a few limits that I want to stay within:

1. Must be rack mount (no towers or the little cubes)
2. I do not want to set up another PC or server. My HTPC is powerful enough (quad core with 4 gig ram) that is should be able to handle the load. We generall do not watch more than one thing on one TV at a time.
3. Would prefer to have Raid 5 or 6 via a card in the HTPC that would link to the external case.
4. Would prefer hot-swappable, but not mandatory

My issues seem to be around finding a case that is not also a server case. They seem to be a lot of overkill and as I do not need the server (or want) they seem to be a waste of money.

Any thoughts on what I could buy? I have seen some Nordco cases that might work, but the reviews they are getting are horrible (unstable drivers, useless cards, impossible to set-up, etc).

Thanks!!!!!

smburns25

01-06-09, 01:54 PM

ok. I'll be the first to admit that I am a dope and did not look around well enough on this thread before posting......

I saw this:
15 Drive SATA 4U Rack Mount Storage Chassis

Addonics is manufacturing a highly customizable 4U rack mount chassis supporting 15 HDDs.

SR460S Storage Rack base unit with 460W ATX power supply, $335
AE5RCS35NSA Disk Array 5SA x 3, $387
Total Cost: $722

You can use the chassis in various ways. For example use it with a RAID controller card such as:

HighPoint RocketRAID 2340 4-port SFF-8087 (16-port SATA) RAID Controller PCIe x8 Card, $430
or use it with three PMs and PM-aware SATA controllers such as:

AD5SARPM-E eSATA Port Multiplier for Rackmount Systems x 3, $240
MonoPrice PCI Express Serial ATA II (SATA II) Card x 2, $30
Total Cost: $270

So, any thoughts on this case or the best way to configure it (PM, Raid with HighPoint Card, etc)? Anything that I should be careful of?

Thanks

Satan.

01-06-09, 03:31 PM

Hey guys, I need suggestions again.

My Drobo has died (side note: never, ever buy a Drobo), leaving me with a need for storage. I've started looking at NAS solutions but I'm nowhere near ready to drop $500+ on another mass storage device.

Instead, I'm considering using the RAID 5 already available on my Gigabyte GA-E45M-DS2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128353) board and moving to a larger case. I need suggestions for a new case that will 1) fit that board and 2) house 5 HDDs (OS drive, 4x storage drives). Desktop/tower configuration isn't a huge concern... while desktop would be nice (even if it was tall) I can still hide a tower without much work in my current setup.

Of course, any other tips you could provide would help too RE: my storage issue.

El-d

01-06-09, 03:37 PM

780G does not support full channel audio over HDMI. It's good for S/PDIF people though. Right now in the low-end mATX systems I recommend

1. AMD/AMD
2. Intel/NVIDIA

Hopefully this time my post will appear :( if it appears twice, please ignore.

Cheers renethx.

Now I'm getting confused as I did beleive that they were full 8channel over hdmi..

and then I read this article. ..that i can't url too

3w's .anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411&p=4

.. just one more post ;)

and that make me think I'll need a sound card for this to work.. or through a separate graphics card.

Do the M/Bs you recommend do full 8channel through the hdmi? I notice that the mid/hi end all have a separate graphics card. Surely this isn't necessary for hd/Br playback - is this jsut for the audio? - or are the onboard graphics just not good enough for smooth full playback?

Cheers

El-d

greenender

01-06-09, 04:39 PM

So I may assume you want to use two PCI cards in addition to a PCIe x16 graphics card (which possibly occupies two slots), right? M2N68-VM is an AM2 mb, which I don't recommend (no CPU upgrade path). I recommend these two ZOTAC mbs instead.

With HD 4550+780G, you can use two PCI slot (the low-end AMD/AMD).

Thanks again, renethx!
I would like to buy one of the the ZOTAC's, but the problem is, they are not available in Poland :( Do you have any other suggestions, regarding mb ? Should be exactly as you stated (PCIe x16 + 2x PCI) ...

Striker169

01-06-09, 05:45 PM

What CPU Cooler for LGA775 does everyone reccomend now that newegg isnt selling the Thermalright HR-01 PLUS anymore?

updraught

01-06-09, 07:21 PM

I looked at p85, and I'll look at that thread now, however... let me rephrase the above a bit because all that doesn't fall into my personal situation :D

if you want the ultimate home server homebrew then ...OpenSolaris

to see why (many features linux and MS can't offer due to advanced Sun's ZFS file system) and follow a step by step build see here

http://breden.org.uk/2008/03/02/a-home-fileserver-using-zfs/

OpenSolaris costs 0$ and will seamlessly stream media to windows/linux/mac clients

Bad points are
1) some common hardware is not supported by OpenSolaris - check before you buy
2) power management on OpenSolaris is not as advanced as it should be yet but the community keeps releasing updates....

walterg74

01-06-09, 07:26 PM

if you want the ultimate home server homebrew then ...OpenSolaris

to see why (many features linux and MS can't offer due to advanced Sun's ZFS file system) and follow a step by step build see here

http://breden.org.uk/2008/03/02/a-home-fileserver-using-zfs/

OpenSolaris costs 0$ and will seamlessly stream media to windows/linux/mac clients

Bad points are
1) some common hardware is not supported by OpenSolaris - check before you buy
2) power management on OpenSolaris is not as advanced as it should be yet but the community keeps releasing updates....

Thanks, I'll look into this too (the more info the better). I'll read it tomorrow at "work" :D

renethx

01-07-09, 12:29 AM

Renethx, which HD4670 do you recommend? A NewEgg search reveals quite a few by different manufacturers. Should I choose any that fits?
HIS and PowerColor are very quiet. PowerColor does not come with a DVI-HDMI adapter. Sapphire, ASUS and GIGABYTE are not so quiet.

renethx

01-07-09, 12:36 AM

What do you think?

Also, just as the system you just pointed out, do you think that for this purpose a Celeron 430 and 1 Gb RAM (2's not a problem anyway) would be up to the task? (or maybe an Athlon X2 5000+ or 5600+ could also be an option)
I think they are good. If you go with unRAID, check this (http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility).

renethx

01-07-09, 12:58 AM

ok. I'll be the first to admit that I am a dope and did not look around well enough on this thread before posting......

I saw this:

So, any thoughts on this case or the best way to configure it (PM, Raid with HighPoint Card, etc)? Anything that I should be careful of?
If price is not a matter, Addonics should be good along with an Areca/Addaptic RAID card or a cheap HighPoint RAID card. PM is OK but hardware RAID 5/6 is not supported. You can save money by going with a cheap 4U rackmount case (e.g. CODEGEN mentioned at page 1). In this case, you need to do some mod (also mentioned at page 1):

You need to modify the PSU of the enclosure so that it works without a motherboard (please read the article Power Up an ATX PSU without a Motherboard (http://www.gideontech.com/content/articles/196/1)), or use 20-pin Power Supply Jump Start Connector (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3223/psu-173/FrozenCPU_20-pin_Power_Supply_Jump_Start_Connector.html?tl=g11c28) (in this case you turn on/off the enclosure by the PSU switch).

renethx

01-07-09, 01:04 AM

renethx

01-07-09, 01:09 AM

Do the M/Bs you recommend do full 8channel through the hdmi? I notice that the mid/hi end all have a separate graphics card. Surely this isn't necessary for hd/Br playback - is this jsut for the audio? - or are the onboard graphics just not good enough for smooth full playback?
If you mean bitstreaming HD audio, then you have to buy Xonar HDAV1.3 or the upcoming X-Fi HomeTheater HD. Otherwise check my feature table. 780G does not support 8 ch, so I added HD 4550. G45, GF9300/9400 and GF8200/8300 all support 8 ch audio.

renethx

01-07-09, 01:15 AM

Thanks again, renethx!
I would like to buy one of the the ZOTAC's, but the problem is, they are not available in Poland :( Do you have any other suggestions, regarding mb ? Should be exactly as you stated (PCIe x16 + 2x PCI) ...
These are the only AM2+ mATX mbs that I know. You may consider ATX (then every ATX board should meet your criterion).

renethx

01-07-09, 01:19 AM

What CPU Cooler for LGA775 does everyone reccomend now that newegg isnt selling the Thermalright HR-01 PLUS anymore?
Buy it from here (http://www.google.com/products?q=%22HR-01+PLUS%22&lnk=pruser&price1=30&price2=&btnP=Go).

renethx

01-07-09, 05:33 AM

A ultrathin notebook (AMD's Yukon platform (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15472040#post15472040)) from HP is displayed at CES.

HP's 12.1-inch Pavilion dv2 with Blu-ray -- don't call it a netbook (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/06/hps-12-1-inch-pavilion-dv2-dont-call-it-a-netbook/)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=128788&stc=1&d=1231324341

Here we've got the fruits of AMD's new Neo platform: the Pavilion dv2 series of entertainment laptops. Starting at 3.8-pounds with a keyboard 8% short of full-sized, this 12.1-inch (1,280 x 800 pixels) ultra-portable features a 1.6GHz Athlon Neo MV-40 processor, up to 4GB of memory and 500GB of disk, optional 802.11n WiFi, and WWAN (Gobi) support. Now what if we told you that this 64-bit Vista Home Premium laptop (no need for the XP fallback here kids) measures less than an inch thick and can be configured with ATI Mobility Radeon HD3410 discrete graphics and an external Blu-ray player for $899 when it ships in March? More you say? Ok, there's also Bluetooth, HDMI-out, an integrated webcam, and 3.5 to 4-hours of battery with prices set to start at $699. Isn't CES wonderful?

vblanche

01-07-09, 08:30 AM

- Replace the PSU fan
do you have this experience with the Antec PSU coming with the NSK2480 case? or anyone? many thanks.

rmmeli

01-07-09, 08:31 AM

HIS and PowerColor are very quiet. PowerColor does not come with a DVI-HDMI adapter. Sapphire, ASUS and GIGABYTE are not so quiet.
I can vouch for the HIS 4670. I just installed it and it is indeed very quiet.

renethx

01-07-09, 08:39 AM

do you have this experience with the Antec PSU coming with the NSK2480 case? or anyone? many thanks.
Yes. But it's difficult to find a proper connector and female pins. IIRC you can use the nylon housing KHS-3 (http://www.action-electronics.com/molex.htm) (or KHS-2; I don't remember). Generally I recommend buying CMPSU-400CX (and selling the stock PSU at eBay) rather than struggling with replacing the fan.

vblanche

01-07-09, 08:44 AM

Yes. But it's difficult to find a proper connector and female pins. IIRC you can use the nylon housing KHS-3 (http://www.action-electronics.com/molex.htm).thanks for reply. I will have a look tonite inside the PSU and evaluate if I can do such thing...LOL

Satan.

01-07-09, 03:10 PM

You can use almost any tower case for this purpose. As for desktop, check the case section at page 1.

Yeah, I checked out that list -- just putting feelers out to see if anyone has one they've loved specifically. Thanks!

ssan

01-07-09, 04:23 PM

I can vouch for the HIS 4670. I just installed it and it is indeed very quiet.

Not "HIS HD 4670 iSilence 4 1GB (128bit) DDR3 PCIe" quiet I guess?

Anybody have any experience of those yet in a HTPC? Does one need lots of airflow through the case to be able to cope with only passive cooling on a 4670?

vanylapep

01-07-09, 05:34 PM

Which form factor, mATX or ATX? If you don't know, think about how many expansion slots you will need in future, e.g. multiple TV tuner, sound card. Many graphics cards occupy two slots.

mATX.

(refer to this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15454858&postcount=5304)

vanylapep

01-07-09, 05:36 PM

spoo

01-07-09, 05:59 PM

I ordered this for my HTPC:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=5893389

I have E2160, SATA HDD, 2GB of 667 RAM and Vista Ultimate.

I hope it will all work with each other since I kinda slapped this together as a last minute add on to an order :o

Now I have lots of reading to do on configuring this bad daddy since I'm a complete HTPC newbie.

moogs

01-07-09, 06:07 PM

Am I going to see a noticeable difference between the e7400 and the e8500? I bought the e7400, but I'm having second thoughts. Anyone wanna reassure me?

xj-boonie

01-07-09, 07:43 PM

In CCC > Information Center > Graphics Software, copy and paste the 2D driver file path to Notepad.
Launch regedit (click Start and type in "regedit" in Search) and go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class
Find the key numbered that you pasted to Notepad.
Open this key\000\UMD\DXVA and create a new string value, name it "UseBT601CSC" and then change the value to 1.

Mine isn't under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class

It's under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video

Do I still do the last bullet?

renethx

01-07-09, 09:20 PM

mATX.

(refer to this post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15454858&postcount=5304)
Low-end: AMD/AMD or Intel/NVIDIA
Mid-range: Intel/Intel

renethx

01-07-09, 09:23 PM

Am I going to see a noticeable difference between the e7400 and the e8500?
In what applications?

moogs

01-07-09, 09:36 PM

In what applications?

playing 1080p and all types of files.

jtm311

01-07-09, 09:38 PM

Ok I now have blood coming from my ears and eyes, just finished reading this thread :eek:

I thought I knew something about building a home PC, but I know jack!

Great site guys.

I'm now a little confused :confused: I would like my HTPC to do it all.

What do I mean:
Store photos (as a back)
Play all my music ( through my Bose)
Watch, Burn and rip DVD and Blue RAY
Surf the internet on my 52 screen (HDMI)

So looking at page 85 would I just go high end??? lol

I do know I want a seperate Video and Sound card ( thanks to this thread)
So would anyone have a list of componets to go with?

Thanks
John

renethx

01-07-09, 09:50 PM

Mine isn't under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Class

It's under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video

Do I still do the last bullet?
Just open the key:

"the key you pasted to Notepad"\UMD\DXVA

and create a new String Value "UseBT601CSC" there and assign 1 to Value Data. I rewrote my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15471445#post15471445).

renethx

01-07-09, 09:53 PM

playing 1080p and all types of files.
Perhaps the only difference you would notice is CPU utilization.

lrstevens421

01-07-09, 09:54 PM

Installed a HD 4670 along with the latest ccc from ATI's website. Made the hdmi connection to my home theater and adjusted the sound settings in the control panel, no sound via hdmi. Decided to do a little testing.

1. I took the AVR (Denon 3808) out of the mix, plugged the HTPC directly into the display (Pioneer PDP-5010). Strangely when I made the new connection the HD 4670 changed the refresh rate to 30i. Again no sound.

2. Leaving the HTPC plugged directly into the display I decided to restart the machine, on the restart "YIPEE" audio over hdmi is finally working.

3. Next I decided to add the AVR back into the loop to try to isolate the problem. Plugged in the AVR, sound is produced and everything is working as it should.

4. Being the gambling man that I am I decided to restart the HTPC, on the restart and subsequent restarts, NO AUDIO with the receiver in the mix.

I was an early adopter of hdmi components and know all too well how buggy handshaking can be, but this latest HTPC hdmi adventure takes the cake. It's not the Display, it's not the AVR (sort of), it's not HD4670, they just won't play nice together :confused:.

renethx

01-07-09, 10:03 PM

I'm now a little confused :confused: I would like my HTPC to do it all.

What do I mean:
Store photos (as a back)
Play all my music ( through my Bose)
Watch, Burn and rip DVD and Blue RAY
Surf the internet on my 52 screen (HDMI)

So looking at page 85 would I just go high end??? lol

I do know I want a seperate Video and Sound card ( thanks to this thread)
So would anyone have a list of componets to go with?
Well, store photos, play all your music, and surf the Internet can be done with any decent PC. So basically your only requirement is watch, burn, rip DVD/BD, and this can be done with any system I recommended at page 85 (you have to add a BD drive).

renethx

01-07-09, 10:07 PM

lrstevens421

01-07-09, 10:10 PM

Have you installed Realtek ATI HDMI audio driver (http://www.realtek.com.tw/DOWNLOADS/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=14&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false)?

Not from their website but after installing ccc "hdmi" was an option in the sound setup menu, I didn't have this option before. I didn't think it was a driver issue because I was able to get sound, just not consistently.

renethx

01-07-09, 10:21 PM

Not from their website but after installing ccc "hdmi" was an option in the sound setup menu, I didn't have this option before. I didn't think it was a driver issue because I was able to get sound, just not consistently.
Would you post a couple of screenshots of the Sound dialog box? (Use Snipping Tool in Accessories).

lrstevens421

01-07-09, 10:24 PM

Sure, i'll be home soon, I'll give it a shot. Thanks.

lrstevens421

01-08-09, 01:00 AM

Have you installed Realtek ATI HDMI Audio Device driver (http://www.realtek.com.tw/DOWNLOADS/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=14&PFid=24&Level=4&Conn=3&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false)?

It gets stranger. I installed the ATI HDMI Audio Device Driver and now it's saying HDMI is not plugged in. How can this be? HDMI is how I have it connected to the AVR.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa117/lrs421/Capture.jpg

lrstevens421

01-08-09, 01:08 AM

restarting the machine got the hdmi signal to be recognized but still no audio.

renethx

01-08-09, 01:12 AM

It gets stranger. I installed the ATI HDMI Audio Device Driver and now it's saying HDMI is not plugged in. How can this be? HDMI is how I have it connected to the AVR.
Click Properties, click Properties, click the Driver tab, click Disable, then click Enable. See if it is "Working".

Or uninstall and reinstall Realtek ATI HDMI Audio Device driver.

lrstevens421

01-08-09, 01:37 AM

Thanks for the help renethx, it appears to be working directly to the display by re-installing the driver but when connected to the AVR I get nothing. This is strange because my BD50 sends LPCM to my AVR (same input) without issue. I think it's just a compatibility issue.

franjorge

01-08-09, 06:09 AM

Hi and thanks for this very useful thread. Being a complete ignorant, I have a little question:

On page 85, for the low-end AMD/AMD solution you suggest:

# Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP AMD 780G chipset microATX, $80.
...
# Graphics Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 4550 GDDR3 512MB, $60.

I have been reading a bit about the motherboard and it already includes an ATI Radeon HD3200(DX10) graphics. I do not quite understand the need for an additional graphics card, since the included one seems to be powerful enough for HD.

Sorry if the question is too stupid or it has already been answered.

Regards.
Fran

renethx

01-08-09, 06:59 AM

Hi and thanks for this very useful thread. Being a complete ignorant, I have a little question:

On page 85, for the low-end AMD/AMD solution you suggest:

# Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP AMD 780G chipset microATX, $80.
...
# Graphics Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 4550 GDDR3 512MB, $60.

I have been reading a bit about the motherboard and it already includes an ATI Radeon HD3200(DX10) graphics. I do not quite understand the need for an additional graphics card, since the included one seems to be powerful enough for HD.
5050e+HD 3200 is good for progressive HD contents, but weak for interlaced HD (and SD) contents, and lacks 7.1 ch audio over HDMI. Adding HD 4550 fixes both problems.

pwlyons

01-08-09, 07:23 AM

Renethx please comment on this config:
CPU: AMD Phenom 9950 2.6GHz Socket Model HD995ZXAGHBOX
CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90 92mm Silent UFO CPU Cooler
Motherboard: MSI K9A2 Platinum AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Graphics card: HIS Hightech H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS PFC Power Supply
Case: Antec Fusion Remote Max
DAS: AMS DS-2350S eSATA 5 bay Aluminum Enclosure
5 x Western Digital Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA

jtm311

01-08-09, 08:06 AM

Well, store photos, play all your music, and surf the Internet can be done with any decent PC. So basically your only requirement is watch, burn, rip DVD/BD, and this can be done with any system I recommended at page 85 (you have to add a BD drive).

Thank you renethx.

last question would you stay with the digital sound connection to my bose? I do not have the next gen bose which has the HDMI connection.
I am thinking of going with the D2 sound card as you mentioned.

John

renethx

01-08-09, 08:16 AM

renethx

01-08-09, 08:28 AM

Thank you renethx.

last question would you stay with the digital sound connection to my bose? I do not have the next gen bose which has the HDMI connection.
I am thinking of going with the D2 sound card as you mentioned.
Which Bose speakers do you have (model number)?

jtm311

01-08-09, 08:40 AM

Which Bose speakers do you have (model number)?

Just the Bose 3-2-1 Gen ll

renethx

01-08-09, 09:00 AM

Just the Bose 3-2-1 Gen ll
Then you don't need a sound card (it's a waste of money). Use S/PDIF from the onboard audio codec.

dlpfan

01-08-09, 11:59 AM

I can vouch for the HIS 4670. I just installed it and it is indeed very quiet.

Even 2 HIS4850s in Crossfire are quiet, way quieter than the Asus 4670. I had to undervolt the Asus to 7V to stop it from screaming.

franjorge

01-08-09, 12:24 PM

5050e+HD 3200 is good for progressive HD contents, but weak for interlaced HD (and SD) contents, and lacks 7.1 ch audio over HDMI. Adding HD 4550 fixes both problems.

Thanks for your reply. Do you know if the Shappire card has an S-video output that I can connect to my CRT-TV?

renethx

01-08-09, 12:51 PM

Thanks for your reply. Do you know if the Shappire card has an S-video output that I can connect to my CRT-TV?
Sapphire HD 4550 has a 7-pin mini-DIN connector supporting composite/S-/component video. (But it comes with only a component video cable.)

MurrayW

01-08-09, 02:32 PM

For those of you that use your HTPC for gaming, what keyboard/mouse do you use? I would need to have it connected wirelessly either through bluetooth or USB. Also, my HTPC will be behind the wall that my TV is mounted on and we would typically be sitting about 10-12 ft away from the HTPC on the other side of the wall. In the past (several years ago, so perhaps the technology has gotten better) I have used a gyration RF mouse and keyboard for just normal browsing/input and wasn't very pleased with its performance.This thread moves so fast, I am shamelessly bumping this in hopes I can get response. Thanks!

punksterz626

01-08-09, 03:26 PM

Has anyone found any case with more than 6hdds bay for less than 500?

Joseph Clark

01-08-09, 04:00 PM

Has anyone found any case with more than 6hdds bay for less than 500?

I have 2 CoolerMaster Stacker cases that hold 11 drives each, for less than $200. I have 3 3-to-5 adapter cages that give me a total of 17 3 1/2" drives in one case. I use them for unRAID servers.

punksterz626

01-08-09, 04:04 PM

I have 2 CoolerMaster Stacker cases that hold 11 drives each, for less than $200. I have 3 3-to-5 adapter cages that give me a total of 17 3 1/2" drives in one case. I use them for unRAID servers.

are they htpc case or media storage case? im looking for htpc case.

Joseph Clark

01-08-09, 05:07 PM

are they htpc case or media storage case? im looking for htpc case.

They're definitely cases designed for lots of storage - full size and monster heavy when fully loaded up. If you want up to 6 drives in an HTPC case, you have to realize it might be noisy. With that many drives, you'll need them cool, so more fans will be needed. More fans = more noise. If you can, you might want to build a small, quiet HTPC and add storage elsewhere.

punksterz626

01-08-09, 05:12 PM

They're definitely cases designed for lots of storage - full size and monster heavy when fully loaded up. If you want up to 6 drives in an HTPC case, you have to realize it might be noisy. With that many drives, you'll need them cool, so more fans will be needed. More fans = more noise. If you can, you might want to build a small, quiet HTPC and add storage elsewhere.

Im considering that but at this moment i might have to stick with htpc case with as much hdd bay as possible...noise shouldnt be an issue i got some pretty decent HT setup :D

saxnix

01-08-09, 05:57 PM

Firstly, this is an outstanding thread. I have been following for a few months now but this is my first post. Your advice here has helped many. Keep up the great work.

OK, I need to upgrade my graphics card (non-gaming) from a 2600 series and I am looking at a Radeon HD 4670 as suggested, but don't have easy access to the Graphics Card: HIS H467QT512P. Just checking to see if there are any problems with others in the 4670 range? Use is strictly HTPC inc BD playback.

I am looking at on of the following;

ATI 4670

Asus Radeon HD4670 512MB DDR3 PCIE2.0 Instock $135.00
Gigabyte ATI HD4670 PCI-E2.0 512MB GDDR3 Instock $132.00
HIS Hightech ATI HD4670 ICEQ PCI-E2.0 1G Instock $168.00
HIS Hightech ATI HD4670 ICEQTurbo PCI-E2.0 512MB GDDR3 780/2000MHz HDMI Instock $145.00
MSI ATI R4670 512M DDR3 Dual DVI Dual Link DVI Instock $125.00
Sapphire HD4670 512M GDDR3 PCIE 2*D TVO HDMI Instock $137.00

What would be your reccomendation?

Thanks

Greg

Edit: It will initially be paired with an Asus P5B Delux MB (for testing W7), and then later put in with an Asus P5K MB
Edit 2: Probably prefer card 1 or 2 on the list as they are single height and have hdmi built in (no dongle required)

lrstevens421

01-08-09, 06:58 PM

^^^The Sapphire HD4670 is a reliable card. As mentioned earlier the fan is not as quiet as the HIS models. I was able to get fan noise down by lowering the fan speed in ccc to 25%, then again I do sit 10ft away. If you sit relatively close I would look at the HIS models, I went with the sapphire because it takes up one slot on the motherboard.

saxnix

01-08-09, 07:06 PM

Yeah 1 slot is more important for me than any noise issue. I sit back a ways as well so noise isn't usually a problem. I mean anything quieter than the origianl 360's is good enough for me.

So there's not really much difference between brands apart from coolers?

lrstevens421

01-08-09, 07:17 PM

So there's not really much difference between brands apart from coolers?

Pretty much. The only reason to get the 1GB over the 512MB is if you use more than 1 display, renethx helped me with that one a few pages back. I also recall reading about certain brands overclocking better than others. I was able to max out the sapphire at 778Mhz stable, but for our purposes (htpc) I would leave it at stock speeds and lower the fan.

BTW, I have second gen. Xbox 360, the 4670 with lowered fan speed is quieter.

audionewer

01-08-09, 11:01 PM

Good. If you can wait, Phenom II X4 8xx is released in February, that is replacing 9950, or you can go with Phenom II X4 920 now by adding $60 (check the mb support first).

i dont know if it is true or not. that Phenom II X4 does not support DDR2-800. It only supports DDR2-1066.

also you have any benchmark on Phenom II X4 8xx on it or not. will Phenom II X4 8xx support Am2+ motherboard or not. it says it is AM3 cpu and not AM2+ cpu.

yycguy

01-08-09, 11:52 PM

Good. If you can wait, Phenom II X4 8xx is released in February, that is replacing 9950, or you can go with Phenom II X4 920 now by adding $60 (check the mb support first).

Hey Renethx, I am also building almost the same system but was planning on this cpu AMD Phenom X4 9950 Black Edition Quad-Core 2.6GHz w/ 4MB anythoughts?
THanks JP

renethx

01-09-09, 12:24 AM

Has anyone found any case with more than 6hdds bay for less than 500?
Many SilverStone cases support 6 HDDs+2 optical drives (so 7 HDDs + 1 optical drive with a HDD bracket). Check the case section at page 1.

mbeutler1203

01-09-09, 12:45 AM

Many SilverStone cases support 6 HDDs+2 optical drives (so 7 HDDs + 1 optical drive with a HDD bracket). Check the case section at page 1.

I just put my first HTPC tonight. Surprisingly once I got everything installed in the case everything turned on and worked perfectly. First time I ever built a PC!

I used the Silverstone LC-10B and I got it for $89.99 :eek: :eek: after rebate from New Egg. Very high quality case, quiet fans, 1 5.25" Drive Bay and 6 3.5" HDD Drive bays. Excellent case, high qaulity, nice front panel, vented PCI/AGP slots!

Here is the case! (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163118)

renethx

01-09-09, 12:50 AM

Comments and suggestions are welcome.
Did you post it in Guide To Building A Media Storage Server thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1071162)? You may be able to useful, critical comments. :)

renethx

01-09-09, 01:10 AM

i dont know if it is true or not. that Phenom II X4 does not support DDR2-800. It only supports DDR2-1066.

also you have any benchmark on Phenom II X4 8xx on it or not. will Phenom II X4 8xx support Am2+ motherboard or not. it says it is AM3 cpu and not AM2+ cpu.
Phenom II works fine with any of DDR2-400/533/667/800/1066. Several reviews on Phenom II published yesterday used DDR2-800. For example, Elite Basards (http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=667&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=2):

- AMD Phenom II X4 920
- 4GB (2x 2GB) Corsair 800MHz DDR2 RAM
- Gigabyte MA790GP DS4H motherboard
- 500GB Western Digital Caviar SE16 hard drive
- Pioneer Blu-Ray drive
- AMD Radeon HD 4870 1GB
- 1000W Thermaltake Toughpower power supply
- Windows Vista Home Premium Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition)

Phenom II for AM3 will work fine with an older AM2+ mb (if BIOS supports it). The CPU has both DDR2 and DDR3 memory controllers. This is one of the great features of Phenom II AM3. AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3492&p=8):

Next month, AMD will launch the first Socket-AM3 Phenom II processors. The main difference here is that these parts will support DDR3 memory. Oh no, another socket, right? Wrong.

Socket-AM3 Phenom II parts will also work in Socket-AM2+ motherboards, the two are pin-compatible. When in an AM2+ board, these upcoming Phenom II processors will work in DDR2 mode, but when in an AM3 board they will work in DDR3 mode. How cool is that?

renethx

01-09-09, 01:13 AM

Hey Renethx, I am also building almost the same system but was planning on this cpu AMD Phenom X4 9950 Black Edition Quad-Core 2.6GHz w/ 4MB anythoughts?
THanks JP
If you don't mind power consumption, X4 9950 is a great choice.

vblanche

01-09-09, 04:45 AM

Hi,

Ok, I'm back with my CPU cooler question.

Which one from this list would do the better job, being the most silent in the same time?

Scythe shuriken
scythe ninja mini
thermalright SI128
thermalright AXP140

thermalright are my favorites as I can fit a 120mm fan like scythe S-Flex ones....but I'm open to any advice,

my case: antec NSK2480
mobo: gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H (nvidia 9400)

thanks

renethx

01-09-09, 05:04 AM

vblanche

01-09-09, 05:06 AM

AXP140 is obviously the best, but I am not sure if it fits the mb/case.
ok, but would SI128 (half price compared to AXP) be enough...and still better than ninja or shuriken?

renethx

01-09-09, 05:13 AM

ok, but would SI128 (half price compared to AXP) be enough...and still better than ninja or shuriken?
The biggest problem of SI-128 is its height. If you attach a 25mm thick fan, there is only 5-10mm clearance between the top of the fan and the case cover. With Ninja Mini, you can go with passive cooling. But then NB can't be cooled. Shuriken may be a better choice.

vblanche

01-09-09, 05:22 AM

The biggest problem of SI-128 is its height. If you attach a 25mm thick fan, there is only 5-10mm clearance between the top of the fan and the case cover. With Ninja Mini, you can go with passive cooling. But then NB can't be cooled. Shuriken may be a better choice.
I realised this pb of height, so I'm considering getting a miditower case, like antec sonata III...

is the shuriken more silent than intel stock cooler? I think I read some posts from people disappointed with it...

But then NB can't be cooled. what do you mean?

thanks

vblanche

01-09-09, 05:38 AM

About PSU fan replacement, do you recommend this (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article83-page1.html)?

thanks

renethx

01-09-09, 05:41 AM

I realised this pb of height, so I'm considering getting a miditower case, like antec sonata III...

is the shuriken more silent than intel stock cooler? I think I read some posts from people disappointed with it...

what do you mean?
I didn't do rigorous comparison. If you lower fan speeds, Schruken is as quiet as the stock cooler, obviously.

Passive cooling means fanless. Then NB can't be cooled.

renethx

01-09-09, 05:44 AM

About PSU fan replacement, do you recommend this (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article83-page1.html)?
Maybe it's a clever way to swap the fan.

rmmeli

01-09-09, 10:16 AM

I have build my htpc (I will add my thanks to renethx) and the hardware is all working fine. I have been playing with VMC and MyMovies and that seems to work OK. That set me thinking about viewing pictures in VMC. I have lots of them and I wondered if people use a different plug-in to using the built-in picture viewer that is in VMC.

punksterz626

01-09-09, 11:17 AM

i was wondering if any of these existing hardware i have on my computer can transfer into the htpc i want to built so i dont have to double buy?? i am planning to buy one of the silverstone case with 6hdd bay. Im most likely gonna change out my video card. Any card out there that support loseless audio + video over hdmi? This will be mainly for movies. I dont like the 86oogt or my 2600xt as theyr'e both not hdmi output. My avr does not recognize my 2600xt as hdmi so i needed another spdif cable for audio.

INTEL QUAD CORE Q6600 2.4GHZ RETAIL
320GB SATA II 3GB 16MB 7200RPM HD
1G DDR2 PC6400 MEMORY
COOLERMASTER LGA 775+ 3.6GHZ FAN
ASUS P5N-E SLI NFORCE 650I SLI MB
AC97 ONBOARD SOUND
WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM 32-BIT
WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM LICENSE
WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM COA
SPARKLE GEFORCE 8600GT 512MB PCI-E

yycguy

01-09-09, 11:30 AM

If you don't mind power consumption, X4 9950 is a great choice.
Thanks, when you say power consumption you mean just need a psu that can handle it? I was planning on a Enermax PRO82+ 525W Power Supply?
JP

Ric_Margiotta

01-09-09, 12:10 PM

I just wanted to say thanks Renethx, and to the many other contributors, for this excellent thread. I've been visiting regularly for a couple of months now, planning for the HTPC I aim to build in February, and I've learned a great deal from everyone here.

Please keep up the great work!

renethx

01-09-09, 01:35 PM

renethx

01-09-09, 01:41 PM

Thanks, when you say power consumption you mean just need a psu that can handle it? I was planning on a Enermax PRO82+ 525W Power Supply?
JP
9950 consumes slighlty more power than Phenom II at idle and video playback (10-15W more).

punksterz626

01-09-09, 01:43 PM

- You have to increase memory size. Add 2x1GB.
- Radeon HD 4670 is recommended.

just checked out the video card...it doesnt have hdmi output only dvi. I need something that can go directly to my avr if possible without having to output a separate audio.

renethx

01-09-09, 01:49 PM

just checked out the video card...it doesnt have hdmi output only dvi. I need something that can go directly to my avr if possible without having to output a separate audio.
Use the bundled DVD-HDMI adapter or buy this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999010). Both video and audio are transmitted.

punksterz626

01-09-09, 01:57 PM

Use the bundled DVD-HDMI adapter or buy this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999010). Both video and audio are transmitted.

the problem with this setup is my avr (most avr) will not recognize this as hdmi. It will recognize it as dvi and audio will not pass through.

jdcrox

01-09-09, 02:22 PM

the problem with this setup is my avr (most avr) will not recognize this as hdmi. It will recognize it as dvi and audio will not pass through.

If you use the official ATI dongle, like Renethx linked to, it should work fine. I have the HIS 4670 and my Pioneer 1018 works great for both audio and video over the HDMI. A generic dongle will not work properly.

punksterz626

01-09-09, 02:33 PM

- You have to increase memory size. Add 2x1GB.
- Radeon HD 4670 is recommended.

so basically i can use this existing hardware and add extra memory?

INTEL QUAD CORE Q6600 2.4GHZ RETAIL
320GB SATA II 3GB 16MB 7200RPM HD
1G DDR2 PC6400 MEMORY
COOLERMASTER LGA 775+ 3.6GHZ FAN
ASUS P5N-E SLI NFORCE 650I SLI MB
AC97 ONBOARD SOUND
WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM 32-BIT
WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM LICENSE
WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM COA
SPARKLE GEFORCE 8600GT 512MB PCI-

punksterz626

01-09-09, 02:37 PM

- You have to increase memory size. Add 2x1GB.
- Radeon HD 4670 is recommended.

If you use the official ATI dongle, like Renethx linked to, it should work fine. I have the HIS 4670 and my Pioneer 1018 works great for both audio and video over the HDMI. A generic dongle will not work properly.

i do have the official dongle that came with the card. Its a known problem for yamaha and several denon receivers. Its no biggie i was just wondering there is any card that is straight hdmi without the adapter..

walterg74

01-09-09, 03:02 PM

just checked out the video card...it doesnt have hdmi output only dvi. I need something that can go directly to my avr if possible without having to output a separate audio.

Don't know where exactly you checked, but the 4670 comes with HDMI. It contains a DVI-HDMI dongle.

punksterz626

01-09-09, 03:17 PM

Don't know where exactly you checked, but the 4670 comes with HDMI. It contains a DVI-HDMI dongle.

without having to use a dongle.

saxnix

01-09-09, 03:35 PM

What is the minimum CPU requiremenet for BD playback?

The system currently has a Pentium (D), Asus P5B Delux MB, 2 GB memory, HD 4670 video card. If the Pentium D isn't enough, what would you suggest?

Scratch this, I will probably put a Q6600 in as I see the specs for PowerDVD are higher than I have.

Hogweed75

01-09-09, 05:27 PM

without having to use a dongle.

You would either have to use the Gigabyte or the Asus. There may be more but these are what Newegg has:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000380048+1320923120&Configurator=&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=4670
They are said to be noisy though.

rmmeli

01-09-09, 05:40 PM

Don't know where exactly you checked, but the 4670 comes with HDMI. It contains a DVI-HDMI dongle.
I have the HIS 4670 with the dongle and it works fine (LPCM 5.1) with PowerDVD and Onkyo 705. The only thing I notice is that I have to turn the volume up more than usual when playing a BD movie. Is there something I am missing? I looked at all the volume settings I could find and they are all set to 100.

saxnix

01-09-09, 05:45 PM

I ended up going with the Gigabyte. It is a little on the noisy side but I haven't got the case side cover on yet and I am sitting right beside it where once it is configured and in place I will be sitting about 10feet away.

renethx

01-09-09, 07:41 PM

without having to use a dongle.
If an HD 4670+dongle is recognized as DVI, then perhaps so is an HD 4670+native HDMI port.

ASUS and GIGABYTE are the nosiest among the HD 4670 cards.

Read EDID Override Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091403). Many DVI problems are fixed by this method.

renethx

01-09-09, 07:44 PM

saxnix

01-09-09, 07:52 PM

Thanks for that. I have ordered the Core 2 Duo E8400. Now that I replaced the PSU, had a waranty echange for the MB, put the HD 4670 and BD drive in, I am ready for HD. Now if MS could get their servers back up I could get W7 and start playing. I know what I will be doing all weekend. :)

jtm311

01-09-09, 08:37 PM

Then you don't need a sound card (it's a waste of money). Use S/PDIF from the onboard audio codec.

Ok Renethx one thing lead to another I will go with the sound card, because now I'm looking at picking up the onkyo TX-NR906. So I think the Xonar should work fine.

Unless someone thinks there is a better fit for 7.1 sound?

John

lrstevens421

01-09-09, 09:11 PM

If an HD 4670+dongle is recognized as DVI, then perhaps so is an HD 4670+native HDMI port.

ASUS and GIGABYTE are the nosiest among the HD 4670 cards.

Read EDID Override Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091403). Many DVI problems are fixed by this method.

Hmmm. This could be the reason I'm unable to get hdmi audio to my receiver. Renethx, do you think this is worth trying?

renethx

01-09-09, 09:20 PM

Hmmm. This could be the reason I'm unable to get hdmi audio to my receiver. Renethx, do you think this is worth trying?
Yup.

fyfchu

01-09-09, 09:38 PM

Hi,

I am not sure if this is the right place to post, but here goes.

We have a Gigabyte 4350HD card and an LG GGC-H20L blu-ray drive. We are using a Sharp Aquos TV as the display through HDMI. This is a dual core pentium 3.0 computer running XP sp3. The driver version number is 8.551.1.0.

The system works fine for DVD, but doesn't read blu-ray at all. We ran Cyberlink's blu-ray advisor and it complains that the driver isn't right and we should use 7.12. Does that make any sense? Where would we find that driver? Is there something else we should do?

Thanks

lrstevens421

01-09-09, 09:43 PM

^^^Trying downloading the latest driver directly from ATI's website.

fyfchu

01-09-09, 09:48 PM

That is the latest driver. The Cyberlink adviser says to use a driver that is so old it is no longer available.

renethx

01-09-09, 09:54 PM

Where would we find that driver?
Here. (http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx?p=xp/radeonx-xp) The latest driver is 8.561.

fyfchu

01-09-09, 10:41 PM

thanks

RodNewstrom

01-09-09, 10:56 PM

I was browsing around the thread and found this exchange:

Post 3153: "Hi, does the GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H rear e-sata port support 4-5 hdd bay case?"

Post 3154: "No. The rear eSATA port is connected to SB700 which does not support PM, hence eSATA does not support 4-5 HDDs."

I accidentally found out that the SB700 does support port multipliers. I have two Sans Digital TRM5-B cases (5 drives each, Silicon Image multiplier) connected to eSATAs from my SB700. All 10 drives show up in Vista and can be used as individual drives, striped, or concatenated.

Here's the trick that works on my J&W Minix board using the provided eSATA port and an internal SATA port passed to an eSATA connector.. both from the SB700.

Select AHCI (not RAID) in your BIOS but then go ahead and load the AMD AHCI Compatible RAID driver into Vista. Voila! All the drives appear!

I found this by accident... I had normal RAID drives on the SB700 using the AMD RAID BIOS then later installed the really crappy Silicon Image PCIe card that came with the TR5M-B cases, and couldn't get it to work. On a lark, I connected the TR5M-B to my eSATA port, and it all worked in Vista! Later on, I decided to un-RAID my boot SSDs (the AMD RAID BIOS time made SSDs in RAID 0 slower than 1 SSD alone... I'm currently shopping for a cheap and fast-booting RAID 0 card) and removed the AMD RAID driver. The TR5M-Bs stopped working. I back-tracked and discovered that loading the AMD AHCI RAID driver brought them back to life!

xj-boonie

01-09-09, 11:47 PM

Just open the key:

"the key you pasted to Notepad"\UMD\DXVA

and create a new String Value "UseBT601CSC" there and assign 1 to Value Data. I rewrote my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15471445#post15471445).

Understand now.

But one question before I do this - what does it do?

oldskool75

01-09-09, 11:50 PM

There are two different, independent Realtek audio codecs:

1. ATI HDMI audio (whose driver you just downloaded), integrated in the 780G chipset. This provides audio to the HDMI port in the rear panel.
2. Realtek ALC889A. An audio chip independent of 780G. Provides S/PDIF in/out and analog audio (the optical port in the rear panel, S/PDIF internal connector, six 3.5mm jacks in the rear panel). You can configure ALC889A with "Realtek HD Audio Manager".

You are going to use the first one if you want to get audio through HDMI. Check the Sound dialog box (launch from Control Panel). Does it look like this? (Otherwise you can't get audio from DVD.)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=126370&stc=1&d=1228829592

Is that "HDMI Output Properties" only available for that particular driver (780G)? or vista or something?

I can't find anything remotely similar in my xp/32bit with a 4550 and Realtek 2.13 drivers.. :(