Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 25

hipsterdoofus

02-01-09, 04:45 PM

thanks for all the guides - but being new to this -

I'm trying to budget for a new htpc - I already have an hdhomerun on the way as well as a terabyte hard drive.

I was wondering what recommendations would be for everything else - Is the mini-ITX vs micro atx just a matter of space? Or are you recommending a mini ITX?

I do not intend on this computer doing anything except being my HTPC - no gaming or anything of that sort. I intend on putting it where my old DVR was, so of course there are some height limitations.

I also will currently be going to an old tv, so my question is, if I get a motherboard with a dvi output, I'd have to convert it I suppose to s video or the rca type video plug?

Also, regarding sound - obviously hdmi sound won't work for me at the moment, so would I just use an output and split it to rca to go to my tv?

I am thinking of budgeting 400ish as a start for this (or a little more) and just trying to make sure I get it right.

I've built plenty of computers before but always just an atx style, so not real familiar with all the hardware.

Also, I'm currently CONSIDERING trying to run windows 7 beta until Julyish, then getting Vista so that I'll qualify for the free upgrade, but thats another matter altogether. Any comments are appreciated.

nickbrown24

02-01-09, 04:54 PM

Does anyone have any experience of the Zalman VNF100 fanless VGA cooler, or any thoughts on if it could be used on a 4670?

Thanks

Nick

misterthang8124

02-01-09, 08:23 PM

Does anyone have any experience of the Zalman VNF100 fanless VGA cooler, or any thoughts on if it could be used on a 4670?

Thanks

Nick

I read some good reviews on Newegg's website about this, it seems pretty good. A few people used it to replace Sapphires noisy 4670 fan.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16835118029

audionewer

02-01-09, 09:03 PM

i want to know which brand and model tuner that has hardware encoder for analog tuner ? which tuner has the best analog pic?

i have a Linksys gigabyte router, using cat6 cables but when watching videos from the server to htpc occasionly the pic/sound freeze for a second or two then continuing playing, any idea that causing this problem? (server computer, htpc computer, router and etc.)

mi_sanders

02-01-09, 09:37 PM

First let me say fantastic guide. Making long story short, I can’t decide between the CPU and maybe Video card. :confused:

I have read the guide at page 85, and looked at many pages of this thread, just can’t decide.

Basically which system would give me less trouble using it mostly as HTPC. I probably would never over clock, not a risk taker :)

This system will be used for anything but games, mostly HTPC, maybe SimCity (wife like it), Photoshop, etc....

TV: 42LG70 (Computer connected to it, using it as monitor) (Already bought)

Case: Antec 1200 (Already bought)
PSU : CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX
HDD: WD6401AALS for main drive and 1 Terabytes for the storage
Memory: G.skill

CPU: Intel Q6600 or AMD Phenom II X4 940 Deneb 3.0GHz
CPU Cooler: No idea what to get

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P/GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3R or GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-DS4H depending what CPU I go with.

Graphics card: Thinking of 4850 if I go with the Intel one, for AMD, is the onboard video enough for everything I need to do except gaming?

Speakers/Sound system: Logitech Z-5500 (Not planning to go with anything else)

OS: Thinking of going with Vista ultimate 64

Thanks in advance for any advice.

renethx

02-02-09, 03:16 AM

Also if i put other silet fans in the case could the interfere with the processor cooling?
Usually no.

renethx

02-02-09, 03:27 AM

I was wondering what recommendations would be for everything else - Is the mini-ITX vs micro atx just a matter of space? Or are you recommending a mini ITX?

I also will currently be going to an old tv, so my question is, if I get a motherboard with a dvi output, I'd have to convert it I suppose to s video or the rca type video plug?

Also, regarding sound - obviously hdmi sound won't work for me at the moment, so would I just use an output and split it to rca to go to my tv?

Also, I'm currently CONSIDERING trying to run windows 7 beta until Julyish, then getting Vista so that I'll qualify for the free upgrade, but thats another matter altogether. Any comments are appreciated.
You can see the performance difference in the feature tables of Mini-ITX and microATX systems. Otherwise the difference is space (a microATX system usually supports more expansion cards and storage space). It depends on each user which is better.

Connection to your TV depends on its connectors. Check your TV. None of the IGPs in my recommendations supports component/S-/composite video.

Sound depends on your sound system. If you use the TV speakers, then perhaps you connect the front L/R port of the rear panel of the mb to TV's audio in L/R.

Windows 7 RC will be available in August.

renethx

02-02-09, 03:42 AM

liquiddvds

02-02-09, 04:20 AM

Renethx- So I decided to dive into the workstation and media server/htpc world as an upgrade to my current desktop and htpc.I have 10-1TB WD EADS drives ready to go.I will be combining my existing HTPC with all current settings into a media server case and adding more storage.
Htpc is as follows
Abit IP35Pro
E8400
8600GTS
Bluegears sound
2-hvr-1600 tuner
4GB ddr2-800
500W Earthwatts PSU
Vista Home Premium 32bit
I already plan on upgrading to ASUS 4850 GPU, a 850W PSU ,and case for at least 12 HDD with a little future growth if needed (Norco4020?).I will be using workstation to do ripping encoding etc.I will use server/htpc to play all stored movies,record tv,stream to other devices in house.This will be stored in closet away from media room.
I want to keep it simple to set up the array

I have a few questions I was hoping you can help me out with.
1.Can I just swap components into say a Norco 4020 case and add HDD,What card(s)should I use for 10 HDD storage +1 HDD OS? I have at least 5 on Abit board as my Blu/DVD drives are going into workstation
2.I can lose the 2 tuner cards if PCI slots are needed and get HD Home Run since analog wont be good for much longer.I dont want to sacrifice to much on performance as I will be transfering 20-50GB files at a time.Do you think I should swap out board or can I make due with ABIT?
3.How do I setup array with a card and on board sata's.Is there a way to show as 1 large array with multiple folders or should I setup 2 arrays? Dual Boot Windows home server?

I have gained alot from your guides but I am really stuck on what I can do and what I will need.
Thank You

liquiddvds

02-02-09, 04:29 AM

renethx

02-02-09, 04:35 AM

i want to know which brand and model tuner that has hardware encoder for analog tuner ? which tuner has the best analog pic?
AVerTV Combo PCI-e and Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 in my recommendations have hardware encoder. For other options, read this (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/index.html).

renethx

02-02-09, 05:22 AM

I have a few questions I was hoping you can help me out with.
1.Can I just swap components into say a Norco 4020 case and add HDD,What card(s)should I use for 10 HDD storage +1 HDD OS? I have at least 5 on Abit board as my Blu/DVD drives are going into workstation
2.I can lose the 2 tuner cards if PCI slots are needed and get HD Home Run since analog wont be good for much longer.I dont want to sacrifice to much on performance as I will be transfering 20-50GB files at a time.Do you think I should swap out board or can I make due with ABIT?
3.How do I setup array with a card and on board sata's.Is there a way to show as 1 large array with multiple folders or should I setup 2 arrays? Dual Boot Windows home server?
First you have to decide which storage architechture you use, software RAID (including unRAID), hardware RAID, WHS, or just a bunch of individual disks. Component selection depends on it. Assuming you use WHS or unRAID (or a bunch of individual disks),

1. abit IP35 Pro supports 8 SATA drives (use KINGWIN ESAC-02 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812226003) and two eSATA cables). Add PROMISE SATA300 TX4 4-port SATA PCI adapter. 12 SATA HDDs in total.

2. IP35 Pro has three PCI slots; two for PCI tuners and one for PROMISE. Transfer rate is mostly limited by HDDs, not PCI Gb LAN. If you want better transfer, you should consider hardware RAID (but then you will need a PCIe x8 slot and hence a new mb).

renethx

02-02-09, 05:37 AM

Oh BTW-Have you had any experience with Dell Perc5 Raid cards? I was reading this http://www.overclock.net/hard-drives-storage/359025-perc-5-i-raid-card-tips.html and for the price you can get this card it sounds like performance is great.I am unsure as to having a video card and 2 of these Perc 5 cards that appear to need additional cooling.
Will this work for waht I am trying to accomplish?
This card requires a PCIe x8 slot. You can use this card in the PCIe x16 slot and the graphics card in the PCIe x4 slot. But the card itself supports only 8 HDDs. You can't add another one to the abit board. You'd better buy a mb with two PCIe x8 slots and onboard video if you go in this route. For exmaple, Intel S3210SHLX or an AMD 790GX mb.

kojotandoh

02-02-09, 07:48 AM

Renthex are there any amd matx/atx motherboards out there with an integrated wireless draft n card

renethx

02-02-09, 09:47 AM

Renthex are there any amd matx/atx motherboards out there with an integrated wireless draft n card
No 802.11n mb. You have to add an expansion card.

There are a couple of 802.11g mbs:

- ASUS M3A32-MVP Deluxe/WiFi-AP
- ASRock K10N780SLIX3-WiFi

hipsterdoofus

02-02-09, 01:12 PM

You can see the performance difference in the feature tables of Mini-ITX and microATX systems. Otherwise the difference is space (a microATX system usually supports more expansion cards and storage space). It depends on each user which is better.

Noted - I'll have to measure - the space where my dvr was is pretty small, but I have a surround sound system that isn't hooked up right now and its a bigger slot. Seems like it would be nice to have the microATX for possible expansion

Connection to your TV depends on its connectors. Check your TV. None of the IGPs in my recommendations supports component/S-/composite video.

Ok - well this is a must for me right now - until I get a new tv later on. You don't have any recommendations there, but is there a solution you would recommend?

Sound depends on your sound system. If you use the TV speakers, then perhaps you connect the front L/R port of the rear panel of the mb to TV's audio in L/R.

Most of the motherboards just seem to have a stereo out - which I guess could be connected red/white rca connection to tv speaker for now.

Windows 7 RC will be available in August.

Yup but beta is free right now - I was banking on using that possibly until July-ish, then getting vista home premium with a free upgrade to windows 7.

renethx

02-02-09, 01:36 PM

Ok - well this is a must for me right now - until I get a new tv later on. You don't have any recommendations there, but is there a solution you would recommend?
Assuming "this" is component/S-/composite video, every current discrete GPU supports it. But not every card this output. Sapphire Radeon HD 4550 in my recommendation has a component video connector and a cable. HIS Radeon HD 4670 has a component video connector but you have to buy a cable.

hipsterdoofus

02-02-09, 01:41 PM

Assuming "this" is component/S-/composite video, every current discrete GPU supports it. But not every card this output. Sapphire Radeon HD 4550 in my recommendation has a component video connector and a cable. HIS Radeon HD 4670 has a component video connector but you have to buy a cable.

So in other words, not likely to find a motherboard with a built in GPU that has this kind of output? I was kind of assuming I'd use s-video or such til later on with a newer tv.

renethx

02-02-09, 02:00 PM

So in other words, not likely to find a motherboard with a built in GPU that has this kind of output? I was kind of assuming I'd use s-video or such til later on with a newer tv.
ASUS M2A-VM HDMI (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131174). It is still available at several stores (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ASUS+M2A-VM+HDMI&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&show=dd&cid=8502242688152453374&scoring=p#ps-sellers). AMD 690G is an older chipset and its IGP does not support hardware acceleration for HD video codec. That means it's not suitable for BD. It's Socket AM2, so HyperTransport 3.0 is not supported.

Snorefingers

02-02-09, 02:44 PM

dbone1026

02-02-09, 02:57 PM

Does anyone have any recommendations which media front end to use? (MCE, Media Portal, XBMC etc.)

I thought XBMC would be the best but unfortunately Does anyone have any recommendations which media front end to use? (MCE, Media Portal, XBMC etc.)

I thought XBMC would be the best since I heard a lot of people raving about back when there was no pc version, but it doesn't have a big sticky thread like Media Portal so now I'm unsure.

The big thing is to determine what your needs are. If you need a PVR, then that leaves you with MediaPortal, SageTV, Meedios, GB-PVR and MCE. If you don't need this, then you can also through into the mix Boxee and XBMC. By the way, XBMC does have a windows version (that is what I have been testing on). However, it has been noted that XBMC does not support hardware acceleration in Windows. I have been doing a write up on another forum (although I am still testing out each software, so it is not complete yet). Here is the link:

http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3054&start=0

MCE is by far the easiest and I would say least buggy to use, but customization is minimal. Other programs such as XBMC, MediaPortal, etc... allow for greater customization (different skins, fanart, etc...) but can leave you pulling out your hair.

Snorefingers

02-02-09, 03:21 PM

Thanks for your input, I think I'm going to go with MediaPortal, it just seems more (windows)user-friendly.

david81

02-02-09, 03:43 PM

Snorefingers

02-02-09, 04:00 PM

chanakya

02-02-09, 04:05 PM

renethx

02-02-09, 04:14 PM

Anyone checked if the Geminii II cooler will fit this mobo GA-E7AUM-DS2H? Also does the Antec Fusion Remote Black on newegg ( there is Antec Fusion 430 that does come with a powersupply) come with a power supply? If not, how do you hook up the front LCD to the power supply? Heard that the LCD hook up to after market powersupply is not trivial..
Geminii S+GA-E7AUM-DS2H+Antec Fusion Remote (no PSU included)/Fusion 430/NSK2480 work together perfectly (tested). :) Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15228903#post15228903).

david81

02-02-09, 04:16 PM

The system will be one from page 85 of this thread, the Low-End Intel/Nvidia Solution to be exact. I'll use it as a library for my 1080p mkvs. No PVR or TV watching or anything like that.

One thing that's discouraged me from using XBMC so far, is that it seems quite tricky to set up a Harmony remote for it, something I definitely want to do.

My system is very similar to that and plays pretty much anything I can throw at it in XBMC, no hardware acceleration needed.

Antec NSK2480 case (replaced fans with 2 GlobalWin 120mm NCB fans)
GA-E7AUM-DS2H
Intel Dual Core e5200 (overclocked to 3.0 Ghz)
Scythe Mini Ninja sans fan
4GB OCZ DDR2 800 RAM
Western Digital 120GB 2.5" HDD
LG DVD Burner (to be replaced with BluRay eventually)

Regarding the Harmony, I haven't done it yet as my IR receiver has yet to be delivered but from what I've read it should be pretty simple to get it up and running as an MCE remote. Check out http://xbmc.org/forum/showthread.php?t=38585.

I'll be doing it as soon as my receiver arrives.

chanakya

02-02-09, 04:30 PM

Any reason why the HTPC Guide refers to Geminii S now? may be more effective north bridge cooling than the ninja?

renethx

02-02-09, 04:40 PM

Any reason why the HTPC Guide refers to Geminii S now? may be more effective north bridge cooling than the ninja?
Yup. It cools down both CPU and chipset much better and quieter than Ninja Mini+92mm fan (overkill for Core 2 Duo though). Any component is subject to change anytime. :)

chanakya

02-02-09, 07:21 PM

I am nearing a HTPC build. At this point considering between intel and Amd mid range micro Atx options. I already have a AMD BE-2400 processor. Just wondering if it can do hardware unassisted 1080p or 720p playback ? If I can save some money on the processor I can go for silent ATI HD4670 + 780G for 7.1 audio http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102816

misterthang8124

02-02-09, 07:26 PM

That's a nice looking card, fanless design, totally quiet.

bryanoak

02-02-09, 11:43 PM

Does anyone here have experience with the Origen S10V and S14V cases? I'm leaning toward the micro ATX high end setup that renethx recommended but am concerned about heat in an S10V. And, I was hoping someone could either talk me out of or into one or the other. I really want the slim look but don't want to regret it later.

Also, is there any real benefit to the high-end Intel/Nvidia setup over the mid or low-end other than encoding? My main uses for the htpc will be for BD playback, BD encoding to mkv, mkv playing, and as an audio streamer for my music collection. Would the high-end setup be overkill for what I listed?

If it helps my TV is a Samsung LN52A650 and my processor is an Arcam AVP700.

lymzy

02-02-09, 11:53 PM

Could anyone recommend a good MCE remote with internal mount IR?:)

Would OrigenAE IR221 be a good choice?
Thanks.

Rob_Esc

02-03-09, 02:33 AM

I am thinking of replacing my Asus G45 HTPC with a new rig. The Egg has some great deals right now including Case/CPU/MB combos with the Antec Fusion Remote.

How would these components work together?

Foxconn A7GM-S 2.0 AM2+/AM3 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
COOLER MASTER GeminII S RR-CCH-PBU1-GP 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 Power Supply
ANTEC Fusion Remote Black Micro ATX Case
WD Caviar WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
LITE-ON Black iHES106-29 6X Blu-ray & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner

The MSI Media Live DIVA 5.1 AM2+/AM2 AMD 780M HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard is available for $100 more, and that would solve any audio issues. The only possible consideration might be the power and heat of the CPU, but the heatsink should handle this, yes?

renethx

02-03-09, 02:53 AM

I already have a AMD BE-2400 processor. Just wondering if it can do hardware unassisted 1080p or 720p playback ?
Yes.

renethx

02-03-09, 03:00 AM

How would these components work together?

Foxconn A7GM-S 2.0 AM2+/AM3 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
COOLER MASTER GeminII S RR-CCH-PBU1-GP 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 Power Supply
ANTEC Fusion Remote Black Micro ATX Case
WD Caviar WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
LITE-ON Black iHES106-29 6X Blu-ray & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner

The MSI Media Live DIVA 5.1 AM2+/AM2 AMD 780M HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard is available for $100 more, and that would solve any audio issues. The only possible consideration might be the power and heat of the CPU, but the heatsink should handle this, yes?
They should work together fine. What audio issues do you have? 95W CPU is no problem at all.

tchen24

02-03-09, 10:11 AM

I am building the mid-range Micro-ATX as suggested by renethx. Final decision and I have order all the components required.

My question now is, I want to have wireless Internet access. I would like to install a wireless PCI adapter. Is this okay? Can you recommend me the prefered PCI adapter? I was looking at linksys but am not sure. I will be using my HTPC to watch TV/movies and watch HD contents from the web also.

renethx

02-03-09, 10:24 AM

I would like to install a wireless PCI adapter. Is this okay? Can you recommend me the prefered PCI adapter? I was looking at linksys but am not sure. I will be using my HTPC to watch TV/movies and watch HD contents from the web also.
Yes, you can add a wireless newtwork adapter (not good for higher bitrate HD contents though). I don't have a particular model in mind for recommendation.

vonecut

02-03-09, 10:34 AM

Renethx and HTPC community,

WOW!! Over one million views on this thread... great resource!!

Given:
1. Never built a computer before so sorry ahead of the time
2. Want to build your suggested MicroATX - (low end) Intel/NVIDIA HTPC
3. No gaming
4. HDMIw/audio to Denon 1909AVR
5. Xlobby frontend - USB 12" inch touchscreen.

Can the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H motherboard as you suggested have duel monitors using the onboard IGP. One to the Denon AVR going to a Epson HC-6100 front projector and anouther output for a VGA 12" touchscreen(USB) using Xlobby as front end.

My gut from this board tells me I am going to need to build at least the mid -range Intel/NVIDIA build with a seperate video card. Any help or suggestions are much appreciated.

Thanks again
vonecut

renethx

02-03-09, 10:39 AM

Can the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H motherboard as you suggested have duel monitors using the onboard IGP. One to the Denon AVR going to a Epson HC-6100 front projector and anouther output for a VGA 12" touchscreen(USB) using Xlobby as front end.
GeForce 9300/9400 supports dual display HDMI+VGA or DVI+VGA with no problem. (HDMI+DVI is not supported however.)

shishghate

02-03-09, 11:42 AM

Newbie question...

I'm looking to build an HTPC and am a little confused on the video/sound cards. If I were to get two separate cards, how is the audio from the 7.1 sound card routed to the HDMI out of the video card? Or better yet, what do I look for on a sound card and video card to make sure the audio can be routed via the HDMI interface.

I've been looking at this mobo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500019, but I am also thinking of just going with a discrete video card and audio card. Thus my confusion on how the audio is routed to video card.

Thanks

renethx

02-03-09, 11:52 AM

vanylapep

02-03-09, 03:49 PM

OMG, check this out: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/03/nvidia-ion-platform-review-roundup/

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/02/nvidia-ion-inside-review-kit-rm-eng.jpg

http://hothardware.com/articleimages/Item1269/NV-ION-reference-hand3.jpg

Check this video: http://www.viddler.com/explore/HotHardware/videos/61/

Cobra Commander

02-03-09, 05:13 PM

:eek: I just had an HD accident in my pants (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4)! :eek:

Tabalt

02-04-09, 04:07 AM

Amongst the low-end builds, how do they fair power-wise, and is there anything I can do to reduce power consumption while in use? Like swapping certain components.

Also, I was wondering how well the low-end builds will do with games if I decided to buy a discrete video card for more performance. I was thinking of going with the Intel/Nvidia setup and possibly going with a better video card later. Would that possibly be enough or should I go with a quad-core for the processor and get a discrete later if I need more?

The games I'm looking at might be Left 4 Dead or GTA IV. I'm just not entirely sure if I do want to play them on our TV as I might start monopolizing it and I don't think my better half will appreciate that.

Oh, and one last question. Can an HTPC replace a cable box?

renethx

02-04-09, 04:16 AM

Tabalt

02-04-09, 04:40 AM

Oops, forgot that. mATX.

renethx

02-04-09, 05:29 AM

Oops, forgot that. mATX.
Power consumption at idle/video playback is roughly

- E5200/G45: 55W/75W
- E5200/GeForce 9400: 55W/70W
- 5050e/AMD 780G: 45W/75W
- 5050e/AMD 780G/HD 4550: 50W/85W
- 7750/AMD 780G: 70W/100W
- 7750/GeForce 8200: 70W/100W

Replacing a 3.5" HDD by a 2.5" HDD reduces power consumption by 5W. (But if you use a quad-core processor and a gaming card, the effort will be meaningless.)

The main difference between low-end and high-end systems is CPU and GPU. Basically you can use any CPU/GPU combination according to your purpose. The case I chose supports up to Radeon HD 4870/GeForce 9800 GT.

Please read the TV tuner section at page for the limitation of HTPC as a DVR.

renethx

02-04-09, 06:32 AM

- AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3509&p=1)
- Guru of 3D (http://www.guru3d.com/article/nvidia-ion-platform-review-preview/1)
- HotHardware (http://hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA-Ion-Reference-PC-Platform-Performance-Deep-Dive-/?page=1)
- PC Perspective (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=663&type=expert&pid=1)
- Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-ion-atom,review-31506.html)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132370&stc=1&d=1233747228

renethx

02-04-09, 06:45 AM

Windows 7 Lineup Offers Clear Choice for Consumers and Businesses (http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2009/feb09/02-03Win7SKU-QA.mspx)

- Windows 7 Enterprise (volume license only)
- Windows 7 Ultimate (for PC enthusiasts who “want it all” and customers who want the security features such as BitLocker found in Windows 7 Enterprise edition)
- Windows 7 Professional (for small businesses)
- Windows 7 Home Premium (for consumers)
- Windows 7 Home Basic (available only in emerging markets)
- Windows 7 Starter (available only in the OEM channel on new PCs limited to specific types of hardware)

The first change in Windows 7 was to make sure that editions of Windows 7 are a superset of one another. That is to say, as customers upgrade from one version to the next, they keep all features and functionality from the previous edition. As an example, some business customers using Windows Vista Business wanted the Media Center functionality that is in Windows Vista Home Premium but didn’t receive it in Business edition. Customers won’t have to face that trade-off with Windows 7. With Windows 7 there is a more natural progression from one edition to the next.

The second change is that we have designed Windows 7 so different editions of Windows 7 can run on a very broad set of hardware, from small-notebook PCs (sometimes referred to as netbooks) to full gaming desktops. This way, customers can enable the scenarios they want across the broad hardware choices they have.

The third change lies in how we broadly communicate in the marketplace, to make these choices as simple and clear as possible for customers and partners.

Unlike Vista Business, Windows 7 Professional includes Windows Media Center. If you are using Vista Ultimate because Vista Business lacks Media Center, then Windows 7 Professional seems to be a good choice instead of 7 Ultimate (depending on the price though).

Cobra Commander

02-04-09, 11:25 AM

...I was thinking of going with the Intel/Nvidia setup and possibly going with a better video card later. Would that possibly be enough or should I go with a quad-core for the processor and get a discrete later if I need more?

The games I'm looking at might be Left 4 Dead or GTA IV...

GTA IV for PC is an obnoxiously resource-hungry port. Many of the high-end desktop PCs struggle with it. L4D is not so much and should be playable with many modern cards... if concerned for native resolution you can't really skimp out on this either.

shishghate

02-04-09, 02:34 PM

If you are talking about Xonar HDAV1.3 or X-Fi HomeTheater HD, then connection is simple: video goes from DVI/HDMI to HDMI IN of the sound card, then is muxed with audio, then goes out of HDMI OUT to the receiver.

Pardon my ignorance/stupidity...

I have an AVR capable of decoding DTS-MA and Dolby True-HD, so do I need one of those cards?

I was looking at the high end Intel/NVIDIA setup you have for mATX. I was wondering if I could get a 7.1 sound card and go the S/PDIF route via the video card instead of the dual HDMI that's described in the remarks?

Thanks...

Darin

02-04-09, 02:48 PM

No matter what the hardware or how it's connected, DTS-MA and Dolby True-HD can not be carried via S/PDIF.

renethx

02-04-09, 03:41 PM

Pardon my ignorance/stupidity...

I have an AVR capable of decoding DTS-MA and Dolby True-HD, so do I need one of those cards?

I was looking at the high end Intel/NVIDIA setup you have for mATX. I was wondering if I could get a 7.1 sound card and go the S/PDIF route via the video card instead of the dual HDMI that's described in the remarks?

Thanks...
Are you looking for a gaming HTPC? Perhaps you need to make it clear yourself what kind of audio you want to feed to AVR, DD/DTS, multichannel LPCM or Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio.

- Stereo LPCM and DD/DTS: Just connect the internal S/PDIF connector to the graphics card's internal S/PDIF connector. You will get S/PDIF pass-through via HDMI from the graphics card. As you use Reatltek ALC889A audio codec, you don't need a sound card.

- Multichannel LPCM and DD/DTS: You will need two cables, one from graphics card for video, one from the onboard HDMI port for audio. Please read the remark at page 85. As you use NVIDIA HDMI Audio, you don't need a sound card.

- Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio in addition to multichannel LPCM and DD/DTS: You have to buy a HDMI sound card for this purpose. I explained how to connect in the previous post.

Mr. Pseudonym

02-04-09, 04:44 PM

I've been contemplating building an HTPC for several years and, after having read the threads on this forum (a special thank-you to renethx for your valuable insights!), I've decided to give it a whirl.

Primary usage:

PVR for basic digital cable and clear QAM channels with no STB (SD & HD content)
Download SD & HD content from online sources
DVD's and Blu-ray from disk
DVD's and Blu-ray ripped to HD
Extensive music collection
Making friends & relatives suffer through home movies and slideshows

Proposed system:

GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX
Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775
OCZ Gold 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner
LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray Disc & HD DVD-ROM Drive
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA
Antec Fusion Remote Black
Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX

Total cost $780.88

I'll output video to my Samsung PN50A650 50" plasma via HDMI, and audio via TOSlink to my (ancient) Onkyo Integra DTR-7 and 5.1 PSB speakers.

The only thing I'm still wrestling with before I pull the trigger is how to address the heat issues, or whether they even need to be addressed. Some say go ahead with the stock Intel HSF while others suggest Mini Ninja, Shuriken, or Geminii. Any further thoughts on this?

And overall, does this look like a reasonable system for what I intend to do?

Cheers!

Cereal

02-04-09, 05:42 PM

renethx,

I'm looking to build an HTPC to DVR OTA HDTV and share it with my Xbox360. Is this Nvidia Ion system worth waiting for or should I go ahead with the low-end Intel/Nvidia system you recommended? I'm looking to build by month's end or next month but I can wait.

misterthang8124

02-04-09, 07:40 PM

renethx, what would you say is a safe idle temperature for a Phenon 8750 triple core? I currently have it overclocked to 2.6ghz and it idles at 35 and 55 load. I raised the voltage to 1.50 and was able to get it stable at 3ghz but the idle temperature raised to 50 degrees. I was afraid to stress it at that temperature so I lowered the speed back down. If it matters, my motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3HP it uses a AMD 780G + SB700 chipset.

onstar

02-04-09, 10:28 PM

Quote from Chanakya:
"I am nearing a HTPC build. At this point considering between intel and Amd mid range micro Atx options. I already have a AMD BE-2400 processor. Just wondering if it can do hardware unassisted 1080p or 720p playback ? If I can save some money on the processor I can go for silent ATI HD4670 + 780G for 7.1 audio http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102816"
-----
I am buying this card instead.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102818
review:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=291&Itemid=72&limit=1&limitstart=3

misterthang8124

02-04-09, 10:54 PM

^^^Seems to be a pretty quiet card. I wish I could say the same about my previous generation Sapphire 4670. I decided to but the Zalman cooler for quiet operation.

RutgerDB

02-05-09, 07:37 AM

Gentlemen,

I'm looking for an all-in one solution to pass 1080p content via my Denon AVR4306 receiver. I would like to have this card connected to the HDMI input of my Denon and HDMI output would be pass through.

I have a S21T case with a touch screen display that support 1920x1080. This display gets it's input via standard VGA. Therefore I need a card that has an HDMI and VGA output.

Will this effect HDCP since the VGA channel is unencrypted? Or am I talking sh*t here? (method of use would be clone mode)

The card i'm looking at is:
Sapphire Ultimate HD 4670 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E

It has the interfaces I need, features HDCP and is passively cooled.

Your thoughts on this are appreciated.

Thank you

shishghate

02-05-09, 08:45 AM

renethx

02-05-09, 11:23 AM

The only thing I'm still wrestling with before I pull the trigger is how to address the heat issues, or whether they even need to be addressed. Some say go ahead with the stock Intel HSF while others suggest Mini Ninja, Shuriken, or Geminii. Any further thoughts on this?
E7400 runs cool and the stock cooler is enough (unless you overclock it with overvoltage). GPU sometimes runs hot if the case ventilation is not good (for example, expansion cards often prevent natural airflow of the Antec case). The simplest and most effective (and cheapest) way to cool down GPU is attach a 40mm fan (such as Scythe mini-Kaze SY124010L) to the chipset heatsink. Ninja Mini with the 80mm fan sitting above the heatsink (blowing air toward the case fans) accelerates natural airflow of the case hence GPU is cooled down effectively (not as effective as a 40mm fan though).

renethx

02-05-09, 11:36 AM

renethx

02-05-09, 12:03 PM

renethx

02-05-09, 12:06 PM

david81

02-05-09, 12:21 PM

andy12

02-05-09, 01:10 PM

Hi, My system is using AMD be5000, GA-78gm-s2h, 2gb ddr2, am I ok with this system, or do i need to add a video card? If i do, any suggestion?

thanks

renethx

02-05-09, 01:40 PM

am I ok with this system
Depending on your purpose ...

Fallen Kell

02-05-09, 02:06 PM

The only thing I'm still wrestling with before I pull the trigger is how to address the heat issues, or whether they even need to be addressed. Some say go ahead with the stock Intel HSF while others suggest Mini Ninja, Shuriken, or Geminii. Any further thoughts on this?

I have always been of the put the biggest heatsink you can fit in the case on the processor, especially in a HTPC. The more surface area you have, the less air flow that you need to keep it cool. The less air flow, means less fans, which means less noise. Noise is the biggest issue with HTPCs (in my opinion). Everything is limited by that particular issue (well that and ascetics). My case can fit a full ninja, thus, I have a full ninja on my CPU. While it was the biggest pain in the @%$ to fit it on there, I essentially was able to remove the need for a fan on the CPU since the ninja winds up pushed right up against the exhaust fan on the back of the case which pulls air through the CPU heatsink... One less fan is usually 2-4 db overall drop in noise level from a HTPC, which can significant reduction.

Tabalt

02-05-09, 02:45 PM

Power consumption at idle/video playback is roughly

- E5200/G45: 55W/75W
- E5200/GeForce 9400: 55W/70W
- 5050e/AMD 780G: 45W/75W
- 5050e/AMD 780G/HD 4550: 50W/85W
- 7750/AMD 780G: 70W/100W
- 7750/GeForce 8200: 70W/100W

Replacing a 3.5" HDD by a 2.5" HDD reduces power consumption by 5W. (But if you use a quad-core processor and a gaming card, the effort will be meaningless.)

How do the 2.5" HDD compare to the WD Caviar Green hard drives?

jxo

02-05-09, 03:16 PM

My 2-1/2 year old ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe 939 has died on me (a bad pci card slot; which I see is not an uncommon problem for this board). I had 2g mushkin eXtreme 184-pin/ddr 500 memory and an AMD athlon 64 x2 4200+ manchester 2.2g (939) processor. All housed in a Zalman htpc case (atx); Seasonic 500w p/s; 2 WD Caviar SE16 320G drives.

Questions:
1. stick with a socket 939 board in order to save the memory and the processor
or
2. ditch the 939 and go with a newer board/cpu set up?

While orginally configured to handle HD, I have thrown in the towel and use dedicated HD and BluRay players. So the htpc is used primarily for SD dvd playback via TT and a GeForce 6600GT video card, music server duty and other light media stuff (NO gaming).

If I go the route of a new mobo/cpu combination, any recommendations with this existing pile of stuff?

For SD dvd playback, is it worth upgrading the video card while I am in the rebuilding mode?

thanks much.

Cereal

02-05-09, 05:44 PM

You don't have to wait for Ion unless you want a pico-ITX system.
Thanks, renethx, I read the review links you posted and there are some drawbacks to the system that I didn't like either.

renethx

02-05-09, 08:54 PM

How do the 2.5" HDD compare to the WD Caviar Green hard drives?
Check this page (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=559) and this page (http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=506).

renethx

02-05-09, 08:59 PM

rotelmania

02-05-09, 09:31 PM

I am in the middle of deciding what component will be used for my HTPC. I keep hearing people talking about playing blue ray at 24fps. From what I know ati 4670 cannot properly play 24fps and nvidia 9 series can. However ATI support lpcm 8 channel audio via HDMI while nvidia 9 don't. How important it is for HTPC to be able to properly play material atm24 fps? Is blue ray the only video material that required to be play at 24fps? Is that mean that if I get Ati 4670, when I play blue ray movies, the picture would not be as good as if I get nvidia?

Can someone please explain to me?

renethx

02-05-09, 09:36 PM

rotelmania

02-05-09, 09:39 PM

Where are you living? It looks like most people in NTSC countries don't notice difference between 60Hz and 24Hz.

I live in US. thanks.

Davinleeds

02-05-09, 10:59 PM

I love the 8200 with an added video card. It enables me to feed two displays and a Xonar HDAV separately.

I'm looking for a similar setup for XP but using just a video card. I have not been able to determine if these type have simultaneous output in all three. Or is another 8200 mother board purchase a more intelligent path. Thanks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814141086

micko_escalade

02-05-09, 11:15 PM

I've successfully built HTPC thanks to this thread and renethx!
Everything is working smooth, even blu-ray playback.
renethx, can you post you PayPal email address? so I can transfer couple of bucks as a sign of appreciation for your help and time you spent helping all of us.

renethx

02-05-09, 11:19 PM

renethx

02-05-09, 11:31 PM

micko_escalade

02-05-09, 11:37 PM

Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14239742#post14239742). :)
Appreciation sent!

Davinleeds

02-05-09, 11:42 PM

GeForce GPU supports up to two displays at a time. You will need two GPUs for three displays (including Xonar HDAV1.3)

Thanks. Do any of the 8xxx/9xxx IGPs offer simultaneous out at dvi/hdmi?

renethx

02-05-09, 11:44 PM

Thanks. Do any of the 8xxx/9xxx IGPs offer simultaneous out at dvi/hdmi?
IIRC 8200/8300 supports clone mode. 9300/9400 does not support simultaneous use of DVI and HDMI.

Davinleeds

02-05-09, 11:49 PM

Clone is not good for BD. Dualview has worked great but takes a little operator interaction.:) So another 8200 looks better.

audionewer

02-05-09, 11:53 PM

i want to know if i buy AMD Phenom II x3 core cpu 2.6 Mhz will it make a difference at all when i am encoding or not.

i want to know AMd Phenom II x3 720 vs. AMD Phemon II x4 925. Which one is faster? because right now i am using 9850 BE and i want to upgrade faster cpu but i dont know which one i should buy i am using for encoding.

renethx

02-05-09, 11:58 PM

audionewer

02-06-09, 12:04 AM

Make a difference from what?

Clearly II X4 925 2.8GHz is faster than II X3 720 2.8GHz (I mean faster in encoding).

i mean cache, speed of the cpu or just the cores of the cpu.

renethx

02-06-09, 12:15 AM

i mean cache, speed of the cpu or just the cores of the cpu.
So you mean L3 cache, right? I guess nobody (other than AMD engineers) has been tested Propus/Rana/Regor yet. Processors without L3 chache are called Athlon X4 6xx (Propus), Athlon X3 4xx (Rana) and Athlon X2 2xx (Regor).

sasmo

02-06-09, 12:23 AM

Renthex thank you for you guide,
I followed your ATX Mid-range system AMD/NIVDIA only changing to a ASUS EN9800GT (the EN9500GT was out of stock at the time)
After a lot of trial and lots of errors I found that the 9800 is causing my problem with MCE 2005 as with other people thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/327427.aspx
The on board video works with MCE but the performance and quality is not that of the 9800.
Could you or someone recommend a non-GeForce card that will work with this setup? This is a media computer only and will add Blue Ray soon.

Thank You

renethx

02-06-09, 12:27 AM

RutgerDB

02-06-09, 01:15 AM

Are you going to run dual display in Extended desktop mode or Clone mode?

Hello Renethx, the idea is to use clone mode. I use my mediacenter for all my AV needs, but I don't want to fire up my TV to start playing a FLAC file or something. Thats why I chose the second display.

I'm worried about HDCP issues but can't find a good answer on this subject. I'm going to send Sapphire an e-mail too.

Thanks.

renethx

02-06-09, 02:52 AM

Hello Renethx, the idea is to use clone mode. I use my mediacenter for all my AV needs, but I don't want to fire up my TV to start playing a FLAC file or something. Thats why I chose the second display.

I'm worried about HDCP issues but can't find a good answer on this subject. I'm going to send Sapphire an e-mail too.
Yep, HDCP is an issue in Clone mode. You will need AnyDVD HD. If you don't want to use AnyDVD HD, use Extended Desktop mode. If your TV is off, then the touch screen will be the main display. Next time you start your system with TV on, then perhaps the clone mode will be applied; switch to Extended Desktop mode by hotkey in CCC.

RutgerDB

02-06-09, 03:01 AM

Thanks renethx,

Please have a good laugh at Sapphire support:

*******************************

Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:24:28 +0800
L.S., I have a question regarding product: http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/products/products_overview.php?gpid=280&grp=3. I would like to use this product to power a flatscreen via the HDMI interface. I would also like to use desktop clone mode to use a touchscreen VGA monitor to control the screen. (running the same 1920x1080 resolution) What I would like to know is if using both the HDMI and VGA output in clone mode will cause any HDCP issues? Thank you for your answer. Kind regards, Rutger

*******************************

Dear Sir

Sir, I think it could be happen HDCP issue. It's hard to say that. I will suggest you testing first. Thanks.

Regards

*******************************

Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:58:16 +0800
Dear Sir, I have not bought the card yet because I want to know the answer to my question BEFORE spending money! Could you please forward my question to someone with proper product knowledge? Your response doet not help me at all. Thank you, Rutger

*******************************

RutgerDB

02-06-09, 03:19 AM

Yep, HDCP is an issue in Clone mode. You will need AnyDVD HD. If you don't want to use AnyDVD HD, use Extended Desktop mode. If your TV is off, then the touch screen will be the main display. Next time you start your system with TV on, then perhaps the clone mode will be applied; switch to Extended Desktop mode by hotkey in CCC.

Renthx,

Does this mean that if I choose clone mode and make sure the VGA display is switched off when watching HD content I should be fine? I only fire up the touch screen when selecting music. When I watch a movie the secondary displaying is annoying and thus switched off anyway.

Tabalt

02-06-09, 03:34 AM

Alright, I think I'm finally ready to purchase the components I need. Thanks so much for the help with figuring this stuff out. If you wouldn't mind one last look at this.

My components:
* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775
* Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit (maybe 4GB)
* HDD: Western Digital WD5000BEVT 500GB SATA 2.5"
* Case: Antec NSK1480
* Remote Control: Microsoft Remote Control and Receiver for Media Center PC
* Keyboard and Mouse: Logitech Cordless Desktop EX110
* Optical Drive: LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray Disc & HD DVD-ROM Drive
* OS: Windows 7 for now, then maybe Vista

Will I need any extra cooling or power? I figure I will if I decide to get a discrete GPU later, but I'll worry about that when the time comes. And will it all fit in that case?

I'm still on the fence about the hard drive. It's a bit expensive and if I end up having to get a GPU later, the power saved will be negligible. I could always get a 250GB one. I don't think I'll be storing a lot on it. For a 2.5" drive, is there some kind of different structure for screwing it in v. the 3.5" since it should fit into the bay perfectly?

I'm forgoing a TV Tuner right now. I have a DVR already that we supposedly must rent (i.e., it's bundled). There is a firewire out on the box though so it's possible I could use that if I really wanted to store more shows. We usually only hold onto them for less than a week though. I can always put it in later too. I figure if I start simple, it should be easier to get up and running.

Is there anything I'm missing? Necessary software or anything like that?

Thanks!

renethx

02-06-09, 03:36 AM

Renthx,

Does this mean that if I choose clone mode and make sure the VGA display is switched off when watching HD content I should be fine? I only fire up the touch screen when selecting music. When I watch a movie the secondary displaying is annoying and thus switched off anyway.
Yes. If one of the displays is off, then the other one that is on will be automatically the main display (having the taskbar, Start menu, desktop icons etc.).

renethx

02-06-09, 04:12 AM

I figure I will if I decide to get a discrete GPU later, but I'll worry about that when the time comes. And will it all fit in that case?

I'm still on the fence about the hard drive. It's a bit expensive and if I end up having to get a GPU later, the power saved will be negligible. I could always get a 250GB one. I don't think I'll be storing a lot on it. For a 2.5" drive, is there some kind of different structure for screwing it in v. the 3.5" since it should fit into the bay perfectly?
Needless to say you have to choose a low-profile graphics card (that ususally means a lower-end card). In this sense a full-height case is more flexible.

You will need a mounting bracket to install a 2.5" HDD in a 3.5" drive bay.

RutgerDB

02-06-09, 06:05 AM

Yes. If one of the displays is off, then the other one that is on will be automatically the main display (having the taskbar, Start menu, desktop icons etc.).

No, I guess your explanation would be valid when using extended desktop?

I'm quite fond of using clone mode for it's simplicity. Identical 1920x1080 output to both screens at the same time. But will the same rule apply? Also, when I select a HDCP source and the VGA display is enabled, will it downconvert to low-res?

Thanks for your answers anyway, I'm still awaiting a brilliant reply from Spaphire but I trust your judgement better :D

renethx

02-06-09, 07:06 AM

No, I guess your explanation would be valid when using extended desktop?

I'm quite fond of using clone mode for it's simplicity. Identical 1920x1080 output to both screens at the same time. But will the same rule apply? Also, when I select a HDCP source and the VGA display is enabled, will it downconvert to low-res?

Thanks for your answers anyway, I'm still awaiting a brilliant reply from Spaphire but I trust your judgement better :D
In clone mode, when you play a BD movie, you will get a HDCP error like this

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132594&stc=1&d=1233921418

whether you actually use only one display or not. So AnyDVD HD is a must. If you use AnyDVD HD, you can play BD movies in either display fine (no downresolution even at analog 1080p).

Extended desktop does not work as I thought, but still works fine and you can avoid AnyDVD HD completely in this mode (no downresolution even at analog 1080p of course). The trick is use hotkeys in CCC. First set TV primary and VGA secondary and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey to it. Similarly set VGA primary, TV secondary, assign a hotkey. When your system starts and if only the secondary display in the previous mode is on, you will see a blank screen (no taskbar etc.) in this display. Use the hotkey to make it primary. Then you can use it as you want.

RutgerDB

02-06-09, 10:18 AM

In clone mode, when you play a BD movie, you will get a HDCP error like this

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132594&stc=1&d=1233921418

whether you actually use only one display or not. So AnyDVD HD is a must. If you use AnyDVD HD, you can play BD movies in either display fine (no downresolution even at analog 1080p).

Extended desktop does not work as I thought, but still works fine and you can avoid AnyDVD HD completely in this mode (no downresolution even at analog 1080p of course). The trick is use hotkeys in CCC. First set TV primary and VGA secondary and save the configuration as a profile and assign a hotkey to it. Similarly set VGA primary, TV secondary, assign a hotkey. When your system starts and if only the secondary display in the previous mode is on, you will see a blank screen (no taskbar etc.) in this display. Use the hotkey to make it primary. Then you can use it as you want.

Hmm, bummer that clone will not work at all. Even with the VGA monitor switched off completely :-( Hotkeys etc is not a personal favorite since I want to control the complete system with the remote. I don't want to pickup the keyboard all the time. I think I will reside to AnyDVD HD, sounds like a good product!

I still find it very frustrating that we as a fan-community are being so extremely "f*cked" by this whole HDCP scheme. Every frustration i've been encountering in the last two years has been because of HDCP crap and non-compliant hardware.

:-(

Thanks for your time and patience with me Renethx

Mr. Pseudonym

02-06-09, 11:05 AM

Thank you all for the input. I happen to have some 40mm Scythe fans on the shelf so I'll start with that approach and see what kind of temps I run up.

My new gear arrives on Monday and then I'm out of town for a week! So I'll have some time to contemplate the build. Will post pics in the near future....

E7400 runs cool and the stock cooler is enough (unless you overclock it with overvoltage). GPU sometimes runs hot if the case ventilation is not good (for example, expansion cards often prevent natural airflow of the Antec case). The simplest and most effective (and cheapest) way to cool down GPU is attach a 40mm fan (such as Scythe mini-Kaze SY124010L) to the chipset heatsink. Ninja Mini with the 80mm fan sitting above the heatsink (blowing air toward the case fans) accelerates natural airflow of the case hence GPU is cooled down effectively (not as effective as a 40mm fan though).

Like renethx said, the addon card may restrict airflow a bit, but I am running a similar system and just use two 120mm fans for cooling and a Mini-Ninja fanless on the CPU. I recently stress tested the GPU with Furmark and was quite pleased with the results.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15723858#post15723858

Good luck with the build. You'll love it.

David

I have always been of the put the biggest heatsink you can fit in the case on the processor, especially in a HTPC. The more surface area you have, the less air flow that you need to keep it cool. The less air flow, means less fans, which means less noise. Noise is the biggest issue with HTPCs (in my opinion). Everything is limited by that particular issue (well that and ascetics). My case can fit a full ninja, thus, I have a full ninja on my CPU. While it was the biggest pain in the @%$ to fit it on there, I essentially was able to remove the need for a fan on the CPU since the ninja winds up pushed right up against the exhaust fan on the back of the case which pulls air through the CPU heatsink... One less fan is usually 2-4 db overall drop in noise level from a HTPC, which can significant reduction.

kalrith

02-06-09, 11:47 AM

I recently made this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=15752539&postcount=156) detailing my $308 almost-from-scratch HTPC build, and I wanted to share it with others who might think that an HTPC is too expensive. I all ready had a case, power supply, and a spare copy of Windows XP, which helped with the price. However, I spent $180 on a dual-ATSC tuner and a 1TB hard drive, which a lot of people won't need.

Tabalt

02-06-09, 01:26 PM

Needless to say you have to choose a low-profile graphics card (that ususally means a lower-end card). In this sense a full-height case is more flexible.

I was thinking of the 9500GT or 9800GT.

From my component list, do you think I will need more power than the stock PSU or more fans?

kalrith

02-06-09, 01:35 PM

I was thinking of the 9500GT or 9800GT.

From my component list, do you think I will need more power than the stock PSU or more fans?

If you're concerned about power draw, then I wouldn't even consider a 9800GT. My list would be HD4550, 9500GT, and HD4670.

Also, in response to your earlier question, I'd go with a 3.5" drive. The WD10EADS draws 2.8W at idle and 5.4W at load. That's about 2.5W more than the 2.5" drive. At my utility costs the difference in energy savings with the system on 24/7 would be $1.39/year!!! I'm not sure how much that 2.5" drive is, but I bought the WD10EADS last week for $97 shipped. Be sure to get the WD10EADS, which is the newer, more energy-efficient, and better-performing model.

The Door

02-06-09, 01:43 PM

renethx

02-06-09, 02:37 PM

I was thinking of the 9500GT or 9800GT.

From my component list, do you think I will need more power than the stock PSU or more fans?
9500 GT or higher is mostly full-height only. You'd better choose NSK2480.

No.

renethx

02-06-09, 03:19 PM

Hi all and thank you for a great forum and a superb thread by Renethx.

I have decided on the following system:

Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H, GeForce 9400, ~150€
Corsair TWIN2X 6400 DDR2, 4096MB CL5, ~50€
Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 2,5GHz, ~83€
Western Digital Caviar® GreenPower™ 1TB ~105€
Antec NSK 2480-ECmATX ~100€

As I understand this system should not have any problems with HDvideo playback?!

What i have the biggest concerns about is the cooling of the system and if it would be ok to add the following 2.5" drive as a system drive to lower the noice.

CPU cooling:
Would this one fit?
Noctua NH-C12P
Is the ninja mini ok when considering the heat problems i have read about, regarding the northbridge temps?
If Noctua is not a good choice is the recomended really silent or should i try to find some other good one from the list at spcr? But then i get the problem about guessing how much extra room i need above the CPU fan when it is a blowdown? What is the measurement from the cpu top to the lid of the case?
Actually heat is not a big problem at all. Noctua NH-C12P is a waste of money (overkill for CPU cooling [CPU runs very cool] but not good enough for GPU cooling at 3D load). I recommend one of the following cooling solutions.

1. CPU: the stock cooler, GPU: none. This is good enough for normal video playback.

2. CPU: the stock cooler, GPU: Scythe mini-Kaze SY124010L (http://www.google.com/products?q=scythe+mini-kaze+SY124010L) 40mm fan (attach with screws or epoxy adhesive). Good for the heaviest stress on CPU and GPU. This 40mm fan is very quiet (for me). You can control fan speed with SpeedFan.

3. CPU and GPU: Scythe Ninja Mini with the 80mm fan blowing toward the case fans. Good for the heaviest stress on CPU and GPU. If you use SpeedFan, the 80mm fan will be extremely quiet at idle and video playback; may make barely audible noise only at the heavy CPU load.

2 is effective to cooling down GPU, 3 is more effective in cooling down CPU.

FYI the distance from the surface of the CPU to the case cover is about 118mm.

Recommended 120mm case fans and a 80mm fan for Ninja Mini if you don't like the stock fans (basically the same as SPRC (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page2.html) :)):

120mm

- Scythe S-Flex SFF21D, 800 rpm
- Noctua NF-S12-800, 800 rpm
- Scythe Kama Flex SA1225FDB12L, 1000 rpm
- Nexus Real Silent Case Fan D12SL-12, 1000 rpm

80mm

- Scythe Kama Flex SA0825FDB12L, 2000 rpm
- Nexus Real Silent Case Fan SP802512L-03, 1500 rpm

(Bolds are my favorites.)

renethx

02-06-09, 03:21 PM

System

Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz @3.0GHz, 1.20V, with C1E and EIST disabled.
DDR2-800 2 x 2GB
GA-E7AUM-DS2H
GeForce 9400 iGPU (default clock)
GeForce 9500 GT dGPU (just to block the case airflow; not used unless otherwise stated)
1 x HDD
Antec NSK2480 with 2 x 120mm 800 rpm fan
I chose a 65nm overclocked quad-core processor here because Pentium Dual-Core/Core 2 Duo 45nm runs too cool to get meaningful results in comparing the performance of various cooling solutions.

The room temperature is around 20°C (chilly!).

CPU/GPU Coolers

I tested three CPU coolers:

Intel stock cooler (1600 rpm fixed)
Scythe Ninja Mini (80mm fan, 1600 rpm fixed; blowing toward the case fans [the most effective direction for iGPU cooling])
Cooler Master Geminii S (120mm fan, 1200 rpm fixed; heat-pipes toward the rear panel [the most effective direction for iGPU cooling])
Also I attached

Scythe mini-Kaze 40mm fan (10mm thickness)
to the chipset in one of the test.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132637&stc=1&d=1233956202

CPU and iGPU Temperatures at Idle and Video Playback

First I measured the CPU and iGPU temperatures at idle and 1080p mkv (created from Spider-Man 3 BD) playback using MPC-HC only with the Intel stock CPU cooler.

|System|CPU|iGPU
idle|35°C|25°C|49°C
MKV Playback with MPC-HC (HA on)|36°C|28°C|54°C
MKV Playback with ffdshow (HA off)|37°C|32°C|57°C

Both CPU and iGPU temperatures are pretty normal and no special cooling device for iGPU is necessary.

CPU and iGPU Temperatures at Load

I ran the following stress tests simultaneously for half an hour and measured the temperatures:

- Prime95 (CPU stress test)
- FurMark (GPU stress test)

They load CPU and GPU heavily.

|System|CPU|iGPU
Stock cooler|43°C|63°C|75°C
Stock cooler+40mm fan|42°C|61°C|61°C
Ninja Mini|40°C|58°C|63°C
Geminii S|41°C|54°C|73°C

Clearly attaching a chipset fan is the most well-balanced cooling solution (it's cheap and quiet too). The side-flow cooler (Ninja Mini) is more effective in cooling iGPU than the top-flow cooler (Geminii S). It looks like the 80mm fan in Ninja Mini accelerates the case airflow which cools down the iGPU quite effectively, while the vertical airflow by Geminii S is not so effective in cooling iGPU; maybe it interferes with the horizontal case airflow negatively? Nevertheless I used Geminii S in my recommendations because the dGPU is used in these systems. See below.

CPU, iGPU and dGPU Temperatures when dGPU is Used

I turned on both iGPU (GeForce 9400) and dGPU (GeForce 9500 GT), with dGPU for video and iGPU for audio and I used only the Intel stock CPU cooler.

|System|CPU|iGPU|dGPU
MKV Playback with ffdshow|39°C|33°C|53°C|44°C
CPU+dGPU stress tests|43°C|60°C|61°C|55°C

Note that the iGPU (used only for audio) temperature is much lower than when iGPU is used for video/audio so that no special cooling device for iGPU is necessary.

************************************************************

The following are screenshots of SpeedFan and CPU-Z at CPU+iGPU stress tests.

The stock CPU cooler (1600 rpm) only

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132626&stc=1&d=1233953326

The stock CPU cooler (1600 rpm)+ a 40mm Scythe fan

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132627&stc=1&d=1233953326

Scythe Ninja Mini with a 80mm fan (1600 rpm)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132628&stc=1&d=1233953326

Cooler Master Geminii S with a 120mm fan (1200 rpm)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132629&stc=1&d=1233953326

The Door

02-06-09, 03:47 PM

Thank you very much. Now i feel better about the heat :)

I will start with the standard cooler and no fan for gpu (cheapest:) and then later i will probably try the mini if i don't like the sound levels.

Ofc i will change the case fan for something else and probably the one you pointed out :) I guess trying one at first will be ok and then maybe go for 2 if i need to :)

Thank you again.

Regards
Erik

vanylapep

02-06-09, 04:59 PM

Nvidia's Ion: Lending Atom Some Wings
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-ion-atom,review-31506.html

Tabalt

02-07-09, 06:34 AM

9500 GT or higher is mostly full-height only. You'd better choose NSK2480.

No.

NSK2480 it is then. Awesome. I'm so excited. Thanks so much Renethx!

rmmeli

02-07-09, 08:49 AM

I have a question about how people manage navigating through large numbers of pictures in VMC. Is it feasible to stick with what VMC has by default or are there any plug-ins that are better?

Thanks.

nickbrown24

02-07-09, 12:02 PM

Renethx, bought the Zalman v900 fan as suggested, very very quiet now :-) for HD4670, what system temperatures should i be getting as normal for the graphics card?
Also any thoughts on a system fan?
Regards

Nick

renethx

02-07-09, 01:16 PM

hybridcj

02-07-09, 03:00 PM

Renethx-

finally got the hdmi audio working over the 4670. ends up instead of upgrading my bios to the newest firmware i needed to downgrade to the original - who knew? anyway, everything is up and running with 5.1 on media center. however, i can't get multi channel on dvd's i have backed up to my hdd nor can i get anything other than 2 channel pcm on powerdvd 7.3 (came with the lg player).

i updated my powerdvd to the newest patch from cyberlink's website which allowed me to pick audio over hdmi in the config. however, once i do this all other options disappear and the player freezes upon trying to play back a movie. anydvd is not running. Ideas? does 7.3 just not allow multichannel where 8 deluxe will?

Thanks

Brian

renethx

02-07-09, 04:23 PM

rlray64

02-07-09, 04:31 PM

renethx,

I've read lots of pages on this thread and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I think I have my HTPC build ready to order but I have a few questions.

I plan to use this system for Standard and Blue-Ray DVD movie playback, building and playing MKV files, encoding MP4 files, and Photoshop/Lightroom editing.

Samsung [LN46A630] LCD TV with HDMI video input from HTPC
Pioneer Elite Receiver [VSX-D814] with coax/optical audio input from HTPC
[Future plans to purchase new AVR with HDMI switching for audio & video in single cable]
Harmony remote & wireless keyboard/mouse
AnyDVD HD

Below are my chosen components - Your Intel/Intel mid-range suggestions with 4G memory, 1TB HD, and faster CPU options

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 OR Core 2 Quad Q8300 - Retail
ZEROtherm BTF90 92mm Silent UFO CPU Cooler - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
HIS Hightech H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 - Retail
(2) A-DATA 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Model ADQVE1B16 - Retail
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s HD - OEM
LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R Burner SATA Model GGC-H20LK - OEM
CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 550W ATX12V - Retail
Antec Black Aluminum / Steel Fusion Remote Max ATX / HTPC Case - Retail

Will the Corsair 550 have adequate power for the extra memory and either Core2Duo or Core2Quad CPU?
I still don't fully understand the audio setups - My current receiver will accept optical or coax in and output DD 5.1 - I plan to eventually purchase an HDMI switching AVR and want to make sure I can "upgrade" to better audio in the future.

I think my chosen components will play BD or MKV DD 5.1 through s/pdif. Is that correct?
Will I need an ASUS HDAV1.3 or Auzentech card for TrueHD/DTS HD Master Audio bitstream through a single HDMI cable to a switching AVR or do I just send s/pdif output to HD4670?
Will MKV rips need specific streams embedded to output both DD5.1 [now] and TrueHD/DTS HD Master Audio bitstream[future]
I can use XP Pro now and wait for WIN 7 release or purchase Vista Ultimate 32 or 64 bit OEM. What would you recommend?

Thanks for your help.

renethx

02-07-09, 04:40 PM

renethx,

I've read lots of pages on this thread and appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I think I have my HTPC build ready to order but I have a few questions.

Will the Corsair 550 have adequate power for the extra memory and either Core2Duo or Core2Quad CPU?

Yes.

I still don't fully understand the audio setups - My current receiver will accept optical or coax in and output DD 5.1 - I plan to eventually purchase an HDMI switching AVR and want to make sure I can "upgrade" to better audio in the future.

I think my chosen components will play BD or MKV DD 5.1 through s/pdif. Is that correct?

Yes.

Will I need an ASUS HDAV1.3 or Auzentech card for TrueHD/DTS HD Master Audio bitstream through a single HDMI cable to a switching AVR or do I just send s/pdif output to HD4670?

TrueHD/DTS HD Master Audio bitstream requires a new HDMI sound card.

Will MKV rips need specific streams embedded to output both DD5.1 [now] and TrueHD/DTS HD Master Audio bitstream[future]

IIRC TrueHD/DTS HD Master Audio is not supported in mkv. Usually people use FLAC for lossless audio in mkv.

I can use XP Pro now and wait for WIN 7 release or purchase Vista Ultimate 32 or 64 bit OEM. What would you recommend?

Use XP Pro now and wait for Win 7.

bradinbrooklyn

02-07-09, 10:07 PM

GeForce 9300/9400 supports dual display HDMI+VGA or DVI+VGA with no problem. (HDMI+DVI is not supported however.)

Couldn't he also you split the signal coming out of the receiver in this case with a HDMI -> HDMI / DVI splitter?

nickbrown24

02-08-09, 10:04 AM

70-80C is safe.

System fan = case fan? Which case are you using?

Ah ok cool.

Case is Silverstone LC20 black.

Also does anyone have any recommendations for Network attached storage. I don't want DAS with the HTPC as i have a networked gaming pc which is still used heavily for others bits and bobs

Nick

renethx

02-08-09, 10:38 AM

Also any thoughts on a system fan?
Use a Y cable like this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=132811&stc=1&d=1234107303

to connect the two case fans to CHA_FAN2; you can control the fan speed according to the case temperature by using an appropriate utility (SpeedFan e.g.).

SeattleHTGuy

02-08-09, 12:02 PM

Also does anyone have any recommendations for Network attached storage. I don't want DAS with the HTPC as i have a networked gaming pc which is still used heavily for others bits and bobs

Nick

Regards the DAS question. (From a total end user.... not a professional IT person). I would not even mess around with anything other than Windows Home Server. I have the first generation HP EX 475, modded with more memory and a faster AMD Athlon chip. In the out of the box configuration, the HP box was dog slow, but with tweaks it functions great.

So here is, IMHO, the deal. The WHS will handle all the data and media files you can throw at it, it is proving to be very stable, and it comes with a host of other easy to use functions. I already used the PC recovery disk to recover my old (5 year old) work PC. I couldn''t get the dang thing to recover via the Dell disks it came with or via any other method. Plunk in the HP WHS recovery disk. Wait 30 minutes and everything is back to normal.

If I were to do it again though, (which sometime next year - I will hit the HP's expansion capabilities) I'd go for the box renethx recommends for the 20 TB option. I figure with 2 GB drives coming out any day and talks of 5 TB drive in one to two years, that box can handle a lot of memory. It'll fit right in to my sound proofed (OK, sort of sound proofed rack) and will allow for future expansion with another box someday.

Bottom Line, for me anyway, is WHS rocks. It is easy to use, easy to expand, has redundant drive back up technology, allows for a simple interface and reallly hits its full potential in a HTPC environment. Couple with Arcsoft TMT, My Movies 2, AnyDVD, and WME, you have a pretty slick little system. Also, if you add drives to your HTPC and then have to deal with all the tech stuff that goes with on board SATA, eSATA cards, BIOS, and all the little issues with XP and Vista, you are going to need more knowledge and time than this little consumer has.

There are a host of great resources for the WHS community on line and many of the plug ins are actually experience enhancing. Finally, all the other external hard drive solutions either appear to be just simple drives in a box or from forum reading, a bit buggy. With WHS, you are paying for an operating system (Really Windows Server 2003) with a "Servers for Idiots" interface and all the horsepower of a full blown business server operating system.

As you can tell, I'm a fan of the thing and it is rare that I actually buy a piece of equipment, use it, and become more happy with it over time. Other than my own error of not building my own, more future proof machine, I am very pleased.

nickbrown24

02-08-09, 12:10 PM

Many thanks for the thoughts. I think WHS is too expensive for me right now, and also 'the boss' would not approve having recently done HTPC/TV and spending on a forthcoming wedding!
I wondered if there were any recommended NAS drives, or ones to avoid, only really need 500gb.
Also does any other manufacturer make things similar to this?
http://www.silverstonetek.com/products/p_contents.php?pno=aeroslots&area=usa

Regards

Nick

shishghate

02-08-09, 03:39 PM

Are you looking for a gaming HTPC? Perhaps you need to make it clear yourself what kind of audio you want to feed to AVR, DD/DTS, multichannel LPCM or Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio.

- Stereo LPCM and DD/DTS: Just connect the internal S/PDIF connector to the graphics card's internal S/PDIF connector. You will get S/PDIF pass-through via HDMI from the graphics card. As you use Reatltek ALC889A audio codec, you don't need a sound card.

- Multichannel LPCM and DD/DTS: You will need two cables, one from graphics card for video, one from the onboard HDMI port for audio. Please read the remark at page 85. As you use NVIDIA HDMI Audio, you don't need a sound card.

- Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio in addition to multichannel LPCM and DD/DTS: You have to buy a HDMI sound card for this purpose. I explained how to connect in the previous post.

Ok, after doing more reading on LPCM and such, I have a follow up question.

It appears that PowerDVD can decode DTS-HD MA and Dolby True-HD. Can that decoded audio be sent using the 8 channel audio on the ZOTAC GF9300-A-E LGA 775 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500019) board via LPCM, Would that have the same affect as using option three above?

It sounds like decoding by PowerDVD and sending via LPCM to the AVR is the same as sending bitstream to the AVR and having it do the decoding... please correct me if I am wrong...

ssan

02-08-09, 03:56 PM

So, it's my turn to try and build a htpc. Thanks a lot to Rene for a wonderful and very very informative thread :)! I have of course read this thread and especially page 85 over and over again, but haven't found answers to everything. So here are my questions:

I will be using the htpc as a media center but I also plan on using it as a pvr. When you are using an internal tuner (I have planned on using FloppyDTV since I have seen mostly positive things about them) - how does one go about with changing the channel via a remote? Is it usually possible to set up shortcuts for changing channels without using the tuners own remote (I ask this since I plan on putting the tuners in the back of the case)? I'm planning on using a Zalman HD160 case and since that has a remote I will be using that (or a Logitech universal remote that can learn from the Zalman).

How about internet security? I'm planning on using the htpc for occasional surfing (see a interesting link on some tv show and want to surf to it fast, check up something on wikipedia etc) - do you have any recommendations for AV/firewall software? I don't have any free licenses for the OS so I plan to buy a Vista premium/ultimate license.

I will be connecting my htpc via my avr, a Yamaha 1800 to my sony x3500. Is there anything in particular that I need to take into account regarding the avr (have read something about the 1800 not forwarding the full color scale to the tv, not displaying whiter than white and blacker than black, or something like that)?

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I'll ask anyways - do you prefer Arcsoft TMT or PowerDVD, or is there any other alternatives for a player (for Bluray and HD-DVD)?

Thanks again Rene and sorry for the long post!

Skylinestar

02-08-09, 08:33 PM

i plan to buy a 8400GS (only HDCP compliant with DVI) and plan to set it up as htpc. does a typical DVI-HDMI adaptor work with any card that's HDCP capable?

Beestinga

02-08-09, 10:38 PM

Hey,
I built your mATX low-end htpc machine,and I'm kind of hacking my way through getting things working, but I'm having a problem playing a file that I was able to play on another machine.
It's labeled as x264, dts, and dxva.
From what I understand, my rig SHOULD be able to decode x264 HD video, and I have the Combined Community Codec Pack installed, so I'm not sure what the issue is.
Any ideas?

SeattleHTGuy

02-08-09, 11:29 PM

I think WHS is too expensive for me right now

Perhaps, but for around $350 you can build a small WHS unit and have huge expansion capabilities. Or pay $100 for a drive and be done at the drive. We all have budgets in these difficult times but if you want to think going forward a bit, I'd delay getting any storage unless you can get something that has a life a bit longer than 6 months.

I still think the WHS solution with inexpensive client PC's is the way to go. Having said that, I built renethx (now outdated and ever improving Premium Intel platform as well). You can get a super cheap WHS build recommendation at homeserverhacks. It is cheap but will do the trick.

SeattleHTGuy

02-08-09, 11:43 PM

don't know if this is the right place to ask, but I'll ask anyways - do you prefer Arcsoft TMT or PowerDVD, or is there any other alternatives for a player (for Bluray and HD-DVD)? ssan

I prefer Arcsoft simply because it integrates better with My Movies 2 and VMC. I'm all about WAF and if this is you, one button click through and start up of the BD Player is critical. There are issues and getting ATI CCC to work with AnyDVD, VMC, and TMT is one crazy dance. My advice, read forums before you accept the next and latest version of software. Currently CCC Version 9's are screwing up TMT 2 version .129. Once you get this all set up though, it's sweet. I think this thread is more about renethx's advice on the best and latest Hardware solutions at multiple price points. There is no current thread, (that I can find) that really devotes similar time to the just as important (I'd argue more important) software issues. My personal opinion is that people are strangely more biased toward software solutions and take straight no-nonsense advice at a less emotional level on hardware than their sacred cow software.

I would welcome a thread that covered truly optimal software solutions for HTPC. If you, or anyone know of such advice, I would be appreciative.

renethx

02-09-09, 12:52 AM

Ok, after doing more reading on LPCM and such, I have a follow up question.

It appears that PowerDVD can decode DTS-HD MA and Dolby True-HD. Can that decoded audio be sent using the 8 channel audio on the ZOTAC GF9300-A-E LGA 775 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500019) board via LPCM, Would that have the same affect as using option three above?

It sounds like decoding by PowerDVD and sending via LPCM to the AVR is the same as sending bitstream to the AVR and having it do the decoding... please correct me if I am wrong...
Yup, the main difference is where the HD audio codec is decoded, PowerDVD (or any other player) or AVR. Another difference is audio quality. Please read my post in my signature in this regard.

renethx

02-09-09, 01:14 AM

i plan to buy a 8400GS (only HDCP compliant with DVI) and plan to set it up as htpc. does a typical DVI-HDMI adaptor work with any card that's HDCP capable?
Yes.

renethx

02-09-09, 01:20 AM

Beestinga

02-09-09, 09:21 AM

Please tell me more. System, OS, player, player settings, description of the problem.
Oh, sorry about that.
I'm running Vista Ultimate Edition, tried the video in both WMP and ZoomPlayer, I'm running this mobo: MSI P7NGM-Digital GeForce 9300 mGPU microATX with the dual-core 2.5 Ghz E5200.
I'm not sure how to describe the problem. I open the video, and it just won't play. It's not that it plays but only shows black, or it's messed up or anything like that.
The file opens...I click play...the bar doesn't move. I know that there's audio and video data in the file. I can open it and watch parts of it on my laptop, but the laptop doesn't actually have the juice to play the file, so it stutters and lags at parts.
As far as settings, I'm going with "out of the box" settings - I haven't tweaked them around at all.

carefreepastor

02-09-09, 11:02 AM

nickbrown24

02-09-09, 01:08 PM

Have you considered unraid from limetechonology?

Just had a look, good idea, but out of my price range at the moment. Only looking to spend about £100 (which was $200 about 6 months ago, but is now more like $140!)
Also want to test if i will use it or not...

Regards

nick

renethx

02-09-09, 03:07 PM

I'm running Vista Ultimate Edition, tried the video in both WMP and ZoomPlayer, I'm running this mobo: MSI P7NGM-Digital GeForce 9300 mGPU microATX with the dual-core 2.5 Ghz E5200.
I'm not sure how to describe the problem. I open the video, and it just won't play. It's not that it plays but only shows black, or it's messed up or anything like that.
The file opens...I click play...the bar doesn't move. I know that there's audio and video data in the file. I can open it and watch parts of it on my laptop, but the laptop doesn't actually have the juice to play the file, so it stutters and lags at parts.
As far as settings, I'm going with "out of the box" settings - I haven't tweaked them around at all.
I think it's a filter problem. Please do: Download GraphStudio (http://blog.monogram.sk/janos/tools/monogram-graphstudio/), run it, open your file in File > Render Media File... ; capture a screenshot by using Snipping Tool in Accessories in All Programs and post it here.

plainv70

02-09-09, 07:21 PM

chanakya

02-09-09, 09:55 PM

After 6 months of lurking I am biting the bullet and going for a HTPC build. Hopefully this will be the build. With money tight,, I've narrowed it down to AMD matx solution, I already have BE-2400 amd processor

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
ASUS M3A78-EM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
GeminII S RR-CCH-PBU1-GP 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler
Antec NSK 2480 case with PSU
LITE-ON Black Blu-Ray DVD Drive & DVD Burner with LightScribe SATA Model (Retail) so I can reuse the face plate for NSK 2480
SAPPHIRE 100252HDMI Radeon HD 4550 512MB ( HTPC & May be light gaming)
Any one know how to specify color of the NSK 2840 at newegg.. I want the black one. Also any tips on how to get the blu-ray drive to work with NSK 2840 without messing up the colors are welcome..

Thanks again for renethx

bighick

02-09-09, 11:30 PM

So it is going to be a Blu-Ray player, DVD player, Music player, Surf the web player and a little Counter-strike (needs less than blu-ray does :) ). I may eventually rip some of my blu-ray movies to it but the time doesn't matter since it would have from bed time til I got home for work. I am not going to worry about case fans until AFTER i can do some benchmarks to check my temps, but if you recomend one that goes in the case that is pretty quiet so I don't have to ask later. :)
I am going to be using Vista x64 buisness. I already have a logitech 550 remote that I would really really like to use and will pick up a RF mouse/keyboard combo. It has to be able to pass my audio via HDMI to my onkyo 606 AVR that can decode the HD codecs and go to my 1080p TV.

Case : Antec Black M FusionRemote 350 Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case - --opionion?

Motherboard : I would LOVE onboard video/audio. Which chipset do I need to pass 7.1 audio VIA HDMI to my AVR -onkyo 606, it decodes the HD audio if needed. SUb $100 please

Processor : AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition

Ram : I think --- OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066

Hdd : Seagate ST3640323AS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 32mb cache

Blu-ray : LITE-ON Black 4X Blu-ray DVD-ROM SATA Model DH-4O1S-66 -

450 before more mail in rebates for around $25 assuming the motherboard is around $80

nitdawg

02-09-09, 11:35 PM

WiFi is built in the mb as you can see in the picture (http://www.zotac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=300&Itemid=227).

I haven't been able to find this MOBO online anywhere? Any ideas for vendors? ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX

Thanks!
NitDawg

Scooterhog

02-10-09, 12:43 AM

Anyone have experience with the ASUS P6T? Any compatibility problems for the suggested premium build on page 85?

Thanks for all the help!

renethx

02-10-09, 01:01 AM

Rene: I going to go for the 5050e/4670 to upgrade my m3a-vm per your suggestions. (htpc, no gaming, OTA/atsc rec/playback; nsk 2480 case)

Do I understand correctly that the fan issues have been solved with this card?

Newegg has the following cards, do you (or anyone else reading this) have any strong preferences or dislikes in this list?

Price difference is not a big issue, but I see no reason to get the HIS w/Zalman if the noise difference is not significant. The powercolor cards get good reviews, but they really don't have much of a presence (i.e. support) in the US if there is a problem.

They are all 1GB cards.

1) MSI R4670-2D1G/D3 Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127399)

2) SAPPHIRE 100256L Radeon HD 4670 incl. HDMI Adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102804)

3) POWERCOLOR AX4670 1GBK3-P Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131128)

4) HIS Hightech H467QS1GP Radeon HD 4670 IceQ Tech (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161251)

5) DIAMOND 4670PE31GDT Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103073)

6) HIS Hightech H467P1GP Radeon HD 4670 iSilence 4 Silent Zalman Cooling (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161266) Is the cooler worth the extra $$

7) VisionTek 900251 Radeon HD 4670
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814129122)
Which card are you referring to by "this card"?

This is a tough question simply because I haven't tested every card. HIS Hightech H467QS1GP Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161251), POWERCOLOR AX4670 1GBK3-P Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131128), SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670 512MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102818) are quiet. A couple of things you should note are:

- Not every card comes with ATI's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter (costs ~$16 shipped) in case you want HDMI audio.
- You don't need 1GB memory unless you use two 1080p displays simultaneously.

Thanks for 16.99 :)

renethx

02-10-09, 01:13 AM

renethx

02-10-09, 01:23 AM

renethx

02-10-09, 01:25 AM

I haven't been able to find this MOBO online anywhere? Any ideas for vendors? ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX
Nobody has been able to find it yet. :)

plainv70

02-10-09, 02:05 AM

Which card are you referring to by "this card"?

This is a tough question simply because I haven't tested every card. HIS Hightech H467QS1GP Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161251), POWERCOLOR AX4670 1GBK3-P Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131128), SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670 512MB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102818) are quiet. A couple of things you should note are:

- Not every card comes with ATI's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter (costs ~$16 shipped) in case you want HDMI audio.
- You don't need 1GB memory unless you use two 1080p displays simultaneously.

Thanks for 16.99 :)

re fan problems: I thought I had read in these forums that there was problem with the drivers and controlling the fan in many 4XXX series cards, including the 4670's.

good point about the dvi-hdmi adapter.

I still seem to be confused about the memory, didn't you write that me that 1GB was better for de-interlacing?

Of course, I didn't expect that you had tried all these cards! Your opinion and instincts are still very helpful.

renethx

02-10-09, 02:38 AM

re fan problems: I thought I had read in these forums that there was problem with the drivers and controlling the fan in many 4XXX series cards, including the 4670's.

good point about the dvi-hdmi adapter.

I still seem to be confused about the memory, didn't you write that me that 1GB was better for de-interlacing?
ASUS and GIGABYTE 4670 lack a fan control (so the fan runs at full speed all the time).

A deinterlacing problem occurs only when you connect and use two 1080p displays at the same time (see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15243032#post15243032)).

nitdawg

02-10-09, 07:55 AM

Nobody has been able to find it yet. :)

Gotcha...I did find this over at hardforum.com regarding this MOBO in a reply from the company:

"Thank you for your interest. The official launch date is 2/18 and we are
expecting to receive our first shipment around end of Feb. or early March.
Currently the MSRP are set at $139.99."

So will this be worth the wait? If yes, I will bite my tongue and wait it out another month or so...any other NVIDIA options for mini-ITX? Your breakdown performance table makes me want to wait it out :D.

All I want to add in addition to your base buildout is a TV tuner card, optical drive, and remote. Is there a adv/disadv to the bundled AVerMedia tuner that comes with a MC remote ($109) versus another flavor of remotes?

THX,
NitDawg

butlermog

02-10-09, 08:27 AM

Please forgive me for asking a question that seems to be asked here alot. But I am using your MicroATX High-End Intel/Intel system as a starting point for my HTPC and want to verify my understanding on a few things (HDMI audio) before I make such a large purchase.
Here is my setup:

I need the HTPC to have audio and video on 1 HDMI cable going into my Denon 2808 AVR. The Denon then goes to my 46" HDTV and 5.1 (7.1 soon) speakers. Looking at the MicroATX Systems Feature Comapison on page 85 under the 'Didgital Audio/S/SPDIF HDMI' heading there is no asterisk next to the '6/8 PCM' entry. Does this mean that I will not require multiple HDMI cables? Also, looking at the same chart, is there a reason I will be upset by not being able to have smooth playback of BD at 24Hz?

Here is what my shopping cart looks like now:

CPU: Core 2 Quad @9400
Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM
Graphics: HIS H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850
HD Tuner: 2 Hauppauge Win-TV-HVR 1800 PCI-Expressx x1
Memory: 8GB CORSAIR DDR2
HD: 2 WD Caviar Green 1TB plus a smaller drive for the OS
Optical: LG Black Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16x DVD+-R DVD Burner
OS: Vista Ultimate (eagerly waiting Windows 7)
Case: TBD - something with no LCD display
PSU: TBD - something quiet and powerful
Fan: Scythe SCMNJ-1000 80mm Ninja MIni
Extender: Xbox 360 and a gigabit network.

Will this give me what I want - mainly great video and audio quality over one HDMI to my AVR?

Thanks in advance, and thanks for such a great forum.

renethx

02-10-09, 08:49 AM

So will this be worth the wait? If yes, I will bite my tongue and wait it out another month or so...any other NVIDIA options for mini-ITX? Your breakdown performance table makes me want to wait it out :D.

All I want to add in addition to your base buildout is a TV tuner card, optical drive, and remote. Is there a adv/disadv to the bundled AVerMedia tuner that comes with a MC remote ($109) versus another flavor of remotes?
This is supposed to be the best Mini-ITX mb for a desktop processor.

The remote is basically limited to Windows Media Center. If you don't have an IR receiver, it's a good idea to buy the retail box of AVerTV Combo and use its receiver, along with a universal remote such as Logitech Harmony. (Or buy Antec Multimedia Station Basic for a 3.5" bay that supports power on/off.)

renethx

02-10-09, 09:13 AM

I need the HTPC to have audio and video on 1 HDMI cable going into my Denon 2808 AVR. The Denon then goes to my 46" HDTV and 5.1 (7.1 soon) speakers. Looking at the MicroATX Systems Feature Comapison on page 85 under the 'Didgital Audio/S/SPDIF HDMI' heading there is no asterisk next to the '6/8 PCM' entry. Does this mean that I will not require multiple HDMI cables? Also, looking at the same chart, is there a reason I will be upset by not being able to have smooth playback of BD at 24Hz?
First if you don't play games (I don't know), I recommend HD 4670 (selected in mid-range) instead. HD 4670/4850 has its own HD audio controller and one HDMI cable carries both video and audio. 24p is subtle. It's almost perfect but some people may notice slight stutters every couple of minutes. I don't notice stuttering at all. Q9400 is great for some tasks such as encoding, but you can downgrade it to a cheaper processor if you don't do encoding frequently.

opentoideas

02-10-09, 09:50 AM

this is a bit of a cross post as I have also asked in the DG45FC thread but I think here is probably better.

I am keen to build based on the M-ITX form factor and this only gives 2 options with the Zotac not even out yet.

the Zotac has the bonus of running quad processors and 8Gb RAM but I don't think that will give me any benefit so is not really a plus

also until it is released for all we know it could have even more problems than the DG45.

I am trying to figure out if the shortfalls of the Intel chip I keep reading about are really relevant to me. - any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

it seems that 24P is still a problem though whether I would even notice is unknown. I know there was an chap from Intel commenting on these threads but I cant find any reference to whether or not this was likely to be fixable with firmware/player software or was a hardware limitation.

if hardware then that would suggest looking elsewhere as although I may not need/want it now it seems daft to buy this board if others that can do this are available.

interlaced content also seems to be somewhere that it struggles... but I presume only with HD?? where would I be likely to come across 1080i? are BD films not all 1080p? as there is little OTA HD in the UK and I don't see myself likely to ever record HD is this a non issue for me?

sound again there seems to be general "problems" with bitstreaming on all boards but ignoring that(seems more software rather than hardware if I understand correctly) now that the repeater "issue" is fixed is HD sound passed correctly?

to be fair none of these problems will be an issue at first as i have only a 5.1 reciever and 720P display.

sorry for the noob questions but we are a bit backward on this side of the pond and HD is still new in the UK

I am hoping to build this HTPC now and upgrade my setup around it but cant tell if this hardware is there yet. I prefer the Intel board as I am hoping they will be more likely to provide a stable hardware platform and continue development to provide a finished product but realise there are no guarantees and many questions at the moment. but there is also always going to be something "coming out next week" that will be worth waiting for so you have to buy sometime!

at the moment the Zotac does seem worth the wait but I could use some help to clarify

thanks for any help

<edit> all media would be from a server with possibly the ability to play BD directly in the future - but most likely from the server as I currently do with DVD.

nitdawg

02-10-09, 10:34 AM

at the moment the Zotac does seem worth the wait but I could use some help to clarify

I am in the same boat. :confused: I am leaning towards waiting for the Zotac, since I really want the mini-ITX.

renethx

02-10-09, 10:37 AM

this is a bit of a cross post as I have also asked in the DG45FC thread but I think here is probably better.

I am keen to build based on the M-ITX form factor and this only gives 2 options with the Zotac not even out yet.

the Zotac has the bonus of running quad processors and 8Gb RAM but I don't think that will give me any benefit so is not really a plus

also until it is released for all we know it could have even more problems than the DG45.

I am trying to figure out if the shortfalls of the Intel chip I keep reading about are really relevant to me. - any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

it seems that 24P is still a problem though whether I would even notice is unknown. I know there was an chap from Intel commenting on these threads but I cant find any reference to whether or not this was likely to be fixable with firmware/player software or was a hardware limitation.

if hardware then that would suggest looking elsewhere as although I may not need/want it now it seems daft to buy this board if others that can do this are available.

interlaced content also seems to be somewhere that it struggles... but I presume only with HD?? where would I be likely to come across 1080i? are BD films not all 1080p? as there is little OTA HD in the UK and I don't see myself likely to ever record HD is this a non issue for me?

sound again there seems to be general "problems" with bitstreaming on all boards but ignoring that(seems more software rather than hardware if I understand correctly) now that the repeater "issue" is fixed is HD sound passed correctly?
It looks like Intel will release a revision of G45 chipset sometime this year that is supposed to fix the 24p problem.

There are several 1080i BD movies (music concerts, BBC documentaries, etc.), but the majority are 1080p. The main source of 1080i is HDTV. But if you don't watch HDTV channels in HTPC, you shouldn't care. (Nevertheless I recommend you to wait for Zotac. :))

The repeater issue (specific to the Intel IGPs) is an HDCP error when HTPC is connected to a display via a "repeater" (usually an AVR). It's a software player problem and I think it was fixed in most applications.

opentoideas

02-10-09, 11:28 AM

It looks like Intel will release a revision of G45 chipset sometime this year that is supposed to fix the 24p problem.

that sounds like bad news for those who have bought G45 boards:eek:

Zotac it is then! - pending braver souls than I testing it :p

I got lucky last time as my current P4 HTPC is only being retired as it cant do anything over 720p (and is a real power hog) but it has lasted me 6 years;) with any luck I can get at least this from my next build

thanks for the prompt help:D

nitdawg

02-10-09, 11:29 AM

There are several 1080i BD movies (music concerts, BBC documentaries, etc.), but the majority are 1080p. The main source of 1080i is HDTV. But you don't watch HDTV channels in HTPC, you shouldn't care. (Nevertheless I recommend you to wait for Zotac. :))

whistling at work waiting for the Zotac

I think I am going to get the other goodies for a mini-ITX box ordered up and patiently wait.

nickbrown24

02-10-09, 01:20 PM

Anyone have experience with the ASUS P6T? Any compatibility problems for the suggested premium build on page 85?

Thanks for all the help!

Hi

I bought this and have had no issues so far (only 2 weeks old).

However it was a tight fit in the case i used. Silverstone LC02. Well very tight actually.
I've changed the fan on the Gigabyte 4670 for a zalman one as the original was too noisy. But now i can here the i7 920 fan! But not enough room in the case to do anything about it at the moment.
Also the large RAM heatsinks fitted just. USed corsair which seems fine. Also the MB has its own OS which is very nifty!

Hope this helps

nitdawg

02-10-09, 01:52 PM

For those that are waiting:

Hi Jonathan,

Thank you for your interest in our product. The official announce date is 2/18 world-wide. However, we won’t be expecting our first shipment in until end of this month or early March. Newegg will have the availability of this board. It will be under model name GF9300-D-E.

Regards,

Allen Wang
Diector of Sales
www.ZOTAC.com

basaro

02-10-09, 02:49 PM

HTPC remote questions:

I am planning to build an HTPC, but have some questions about IR remote control of the system for DVD,HD DVD,Blu-ray playback.

I have a Logitech Harmony 550 remote, I would like to use this to control the HTPC (play, stop, pause, skip, subtitle, menu, arrows, etc). I also want to stick with Windows XP, and possibly use the MS IR Remote/Receiver package or something similar (do I need MS XP Media Center version? I have XP Pro right now.).
Is this possible? I don't have the space to add another device to my component rack, so I don't want/need to spend the money on a nice HTPC case. I'm just planning on using a standard ATX tower, which will sit next to my media stand.

Any suggestions/comments?
Thanks!

peaces

02-10-09, 04:09 PM

I'm sorry guys, but I am confussed with all I see. I know I do not want Intel G45 (and I don't want to wait for thier chip fix). So I guess that leaves the Nvedia 9300/9400 chip set on a motherboard. But what would be the best micro ATX motherboard, that would support BlueRay 24fps and Dolby True HD (one HDMI out to AVR would be great, but HDMI for video and optical for sound is ok as well). Only concideration is I would like to have only one extra board, so the "Best" is more important then the cost on the motherboard. I was thinking the extra board would have to be a Asus 1.3 board, but there are lots of issues? Can someone help?

kalrith

02-10-09, 04:12 PM

basaro,

It sounds like you're doing exactly what I'm doing. I'm using a regular ATX case that'll actually sit behind my entertainment center, because I have it pulled out from the wall about a foot. I recently ordered this item (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370145892694) off of ebay for $20 shipped (I offered $15, and then the seller counter-offered $20). I'll just be using the IR receiver with my Harmony remote. It's got a 3-foot-long USB cable on it, so that'll easily reach the front of my entertainment center. You could always use a USB-extension cable if you need to.

You don't have to upgrade your version of Windows either. I'm going with MediaPortal (http://www.team-mediaportal.com/), but many people like GB-PVR (http://www.gbpvr.com/) as well. These are basically replacements for Windows Media Center, and many people prefer them to the Windows counterpart.

Scooterhog

02-10-09, 07:27 PM

Yes it does help.

Cheers Nick

dahayn

02-10-09, 10:23 PM

Hello all,
I am planning on finally building my first HTPC following the Mini-ATX low end AMD/NVIDIA format but I was wondering as far as the motherboard goes, what the difference is between AMD 780G chipset and the GeForce 8200 chipset? I plan to use my HTPC for my music player, backing up and playing my DVDs from the hard drive, sometimes playing CDs/DVDs from the optical drive, and hopefully if I can figure out how to do it with my Verzion FiOS, using it as a HD-DVR. The two motherboards I'm going back and forth on are:

MSI K9N2GM-FIH - (i'd post the link but i don't have enough posts yet)

and

ASUS M3A78-EM

I plan to use both integrated video and sound. I am also confused about which audio chipset will be better for me. The ASUS uses the Realtek ALC1200 chipset whereas the MSI uses the Realtek ALC888. The noob in me says that the bigger number should be better but I thought I'd see if anyone on here had anything to say about that. My sound will go from my motherboard to my 7.1 Onkyo HT-R550 AV receiver via TOSlink cable so I'd like to be able to use all those channels. Eventually I'm going to get a BD optical drive to play BD's but I have a feeling I'll end up getting a video card and HD sound card when I do that. My tv and projector only go up to 1080i so I don't know if that means anything. Thanks in advance!

plainv70

02-11-09, 12:24 AM

A deinterlacing problem occurs only when you connect and use two 1080p displays at the same time (see this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15243032#post15243032)).

I get it: the operative word is two. :) Thanks for all the help.

renethx

02-11-09, 05:18 AM

tchen24

02-11-09, 08:19 AM

renethx,

So, I am now puting together the mid-range Intel/Nvidia Micro-ATX system. I ran into a minor problem with the Hauppauge TV tuner. It was PCIe connection and the only PCIe on the Gigabyte MB was taken up by the Auzentec soundcard. So, I have returned the Hauppauge.

I was looking at your suggestion on SiliconDust HDHomeRun. I currently have satellite TV. Can I run the satellite to SiliconDust and watch it through my HTPC?

tchen24

02-11-09, 08:48 AM

renethx,

Can you also suggest another TV tuner with PCI connection? I was looking at Pinnacle but am not sure if that is good or not. As I said, I want one that will be able to connect from my satellite box to the computer. Or is there any other way?

renethx

02-11-09, 09:27 AM

Can I run the satellite to SiliconDust and watch it through my HTPC?
No. HDHomeRun supports OTA (ATSC 8VSB) and cable ([unencypted] QAM), but not satellite TV (ATSC satellite, DVB-S etc.).

renethx

02-11-09, 09:33 AM

tchen24

02-11-09, 09:52 AM

Which satellite box are you using?

I am using Dishnet's satellite box model: Solo 311.

jackooze

02-11-09, 10:29 AM

opentoideas

02-11-09, 10:38 AM

Hello, I know there have been plenty of posts our there of advice on how to build an HTPC. I been researching a lot and wanted to get some advice on an outline of the things I need to build the top of the line HTPC using my budget of $1200. I am so overwhelmed with the amount of hardware out there that I cannot come to a decision as to what to choose.

The HTPC will be used for mainly for such functions as watching 1080i movies and downloading torrents and seeding. I might want to play some PC games but very unlikely. I am also interested in a dual TV tuner card so i can record two HD channels simultaneously. ( Digital Cable)

Thank You, I appreciate if anyone can help me out.

the one thing I would suggest is that you set up a separate box to use for your torrents. it can quite literally be anything you may have already specification is largely irrelevant other than drive space.

this will save you a lot of hassle in the long run as I have found that these are 2 roles best kept separate. others may not agree but I have found it to be a huge benefit.

basaro

02-11-09, 10:40 AM

basaro,

It sounds like you're doing exactly what I'm doing. I'm using a regular ATX case that'll actually sit behind my entertainment center, because I have it pulled out from the wall about a foot. I recently ordered [URL removed] off of ebay for $20 shipped (I offered $15, and then the seller counter-offered $20). I'll just be using the IR receiver with my Harmony remote. It's got a 3-foot-long USB cable on it, so that'll easily reach the front of my entertainment center. You could always use a USB-extension cable if you need to.

You don't have to upgrade your version of Windows either. I'm going with [URL removed], but many people like [URL removed] as well. These are basically replacements for Windows Media Center, and many people prefer them to the Windows counterpart.

Thanks kalrith, I will plan to get one of those too. :)

Now, can someone offer any advice on my proposed setup? I'm not sure about the MB/Chip combo I want, and would also like any other opinions/comments.

GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-DS4H AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
or
ASRock A780GXE/128M AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G ATX AMD Motherboard

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6400+ Windsor 3.2GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX6400CZBOX
or
AMD Phenom 9850 2.5GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black Edition Processor Model HD985ZXAJ4BGH

COOLER MASTER GeminII S RR-CCH-PBU1-GP 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler
SAPPHIRE 100265L Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
XCLIO GOODPOWER 500W 500W ATX SLI Certified CrossFire Ready Power Supply
Patriot Viper 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PVS24G8500ELKN
LG Black Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20L
Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
Dell OVU4003/00 Remote Control Kit
MediaPortal or GB-PVR media pc software
Logitech Harmony 550 universal remote
Cheapish black ATX mid tower case, probably a Rosewill

Soundcard, will I need one?

This machine will be multi-purpose, it primarily has to:
1. Be an HTPC, connected via HDMI to my AVR then to the Samsung HL61A750 DLP display, playing DVD, HD DVD, Blu-ray, and supporting the various sound formats on those medias, including True HD/DTS-HD. Cable will still come through the DVR cable box, so I won't be watching TV on the PC.
2. Play Crysis (flawlessly).
3. Be Crossfire ready to possibly add another VC in the future.
4. If it can do all that, I'm sure it can handle anything else I might use it for.

Anything I'm missing/should upgrade, etc.?
Thanks!

renethx

02-11-09, 10:44 AM

I am using Dishnet's satellite box model: Solo 311.
So what you need is a good analog SD capture non-PCIe card. There are lots of cards for this purpose. If you want a card that also supports ATSC OTA/Cable, check this site (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/besthdtvtuner.html).

renethx

02-11-09, 10:50 AM

jackooze

02-11-09, 11:30 AM

Would you advise a mid range system for ATX or Micro ATX ?

basaro

02-11-09, 11:34 AM

Would you advise a mid range system for ATX or Micro ATX ?

You should probably start on page 85 for recommendations, that's where I started ;)

I can't post urls yet, so go to the first page of this thread, and click on the link to page85 from there. Or you can use the Go to page dropdown arrow (at the end of the page links).

renethx

02-11-09, 11:39 AM

Clarkdale is the next Intel entry-mainstream desktop processor (with IGP) that succeeds Pentium Dual-Core/Core 2 Duo E7xxx and G43/G45. (Lynnfield, the mainstream Nehalem 45nm quad-core processor, is the successor to Core 2 Duo E8xxx and Core 2 Quad, expected in Q4 2009.) Main features are:

- 32 nm process (Westmere core = 32 nm successor to Nehalem)
- MCM (multi-chip module) with CPU (dual-core) and GPU+IMC (integrated memory controller) in one package. (But the GPU+IMC die is manufactured in 45nm.)
- Manufacturing begins in Q4 2009.

More details here (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=3513).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133229&stc=1&d=1234370181

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133230&stc=1&d=1234370181

renethx

02-11-09, 11:41 AM

Would you advise a mid range system for ATX or Micro ATX ?
Depends on you. ATX supports more expansion cards (consider how many cards you will use in future; TV tuner, sound card etc. in addition to the graphics card [that may occupy two slots]) and an ATX case usually support more storage space.

jackooze

02-11-09, 12:08 PM

Thanks for the reply

archibael

02-11-09, 01:39 PM

jackooze

02-11-09, 02:34 PM

I just spent like four hours on deciding what exactly I want for my HTPC and finally came to a ruff draft . Page 85 on this forum has been a great help. Just curious to hear some opinions regarding this setup. Oh yeah and where did those prices come from on page 85.

Still having difficulties what exactly I need for a TV tuner and how it actually works.

MY CHOICE: NEWEGG.COM

• CPU: Core 2 Quad Q8300 2.50GHz Socket 775, $189.
• CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90, $44.99
• Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 chipset ATX, $134.99
• Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $47.95
• Graphics Card: HIS H485QT512P Radeon HD 4850, $149.99
• PSU: Enermax PRO82+ 625W EPR625AWT, $125
• Hard Drive: Western Digital WD10EADS 1TB 32MB Cache SATA $109.99
• Case: Silverstone LC13B-E ATX $114.99

renethx

02-11-09, 02:44 PM

peaces

02-11-09, 04:11 PM

So, here it goes.

Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
CPU - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 (might as well get a 64-bit)
Memory - A-DATA 4GB (2 sticks - anything better out there?)
Disk - Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS (a little pricy but heard they are silent - need two for RAID)
PSU - ENERMAX MODU82+ 525WT
Optical Drive - Pioneer Black 8X Blu-Ray DVD Burner SATA Model BDR-203BK (heard it was better than most at being silent.)

Case - it is such a personal choice so I am not going to list.... It will have an Remote (a Philips 64-bit compatible).

Will see if the fans are loud and need to be replace when the case arrives. And the heatsink will be last, after I measure the clearance to make sure I get one that fits.

Only question, do I need to add anything? AZUZ Xonor 1.3, or a graphics card? Would like to get Video and Sound going through one HDMI out to the A/V receiver. Any comments or recommendation/changes I would appreciate.

HTPC will be used for Blu-Ray/DVD player and lots of songs....

Was going to hook up cable, but doubt the PC will be a good repeater when in standby to let the signal go through to TV when watching football (both U.S. and what the rest of the world calls it as well) or Family Guy.

tighr

02-11-09, 04:25 PM

Was going to hook up cable, but doubt the PC will be a good repeater when in standby to let the signal go through to TV when watching football (both U.S. and what the rest of the world calls it as well) or Family Guy.
If you want to use your TV's tuner still, you can always install a splitter. I have my current setup with cable via splitter to both the TV and the computer.

jesseasi

02-11-09, 05:50 PM

I am not sure where start. So I hope I don't get flamed for not reading all 200 pages of posts here. So I am sure some of my questions might have been covered.

After looking at page 85 - I have a good idea of what I wanted - but here goes.

Right now I have a TVIX 6500 I use to play / stream media from my un-raid file server. This replaced my old xbox which was running XBMC.

XBMC can now run on Windows - and I think I am ready to go back to it.

Here is what I want - any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Quad Core CPU fast enough to handle smooth MKV decoding and playback.
Video card with HDMI output that can also pass through any of the audio formats available today and output HD video.
Blu-Ray player
HTPC type case - small footprint preferred.
I am thinking Solid State drive. I don't need any space for media - only OS and software. I figure solid state will be fast and quiet.
Remote control.

I would like to as much as possible - make this HTPC act and work like my Tvix box but with the great XBMC front end.

Anyone here build something like this?

dbone1026

02-11-09, 06:14 PM

jesseasi

02-11-09, 06:48 PM

Why Quad Core, are you planning on doing something other then playing back media?

I am using the AMD/AMD build:

Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H Mobo
AMD Athlon 4850e CPU
ASUS Radeon 4670
LG HD DVD/Blu Ray Drive
Vista Ultimate x64
WD Caviar 500GB
GSkill 4GB (2x2GB) 240 DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Memory
Logitech diNovo Mini
Antect Fusion Black Case

I can play back my 1080p mkvs with no problem (using XBMC under Vista x64)

I guess because even with my current Quad Core i get some pixelation and stuttering while playing 1080p mkvs. I am always running other stuff in the background - but found that the player I use does seem to have issues (VLC Player) Plus I don't mind the cost of a quad core cpu. I can budget around $1500 for this project. So I figure get the best I can get (that is reasonable).

dahayn

02-11-09, 08:41 PM

There is almost no difference between the audio codecs. Both IGPs are poor in post-processing when coupled with an AM2 processor. The NVIDIA chipset support 7.1 PCM, DD and DTS over HDMI, while 780G supports only stereo PCM, DD and DTS over HDMI. As your receiver supports HDMI, you may want to use HDMI for both video and audio.

Renethx, thank you for your info! What do you think of the NVIDIA GeForce 8300 IGP vs the 8200? Is it worth the extra 15 -20 bucks? I'm now looking specificaly at ASUS M3N78-EM with an AMD 64 X2 7750 Kuma processor. That way I can use the S/PDIF out for my audio. My AVR does have HDMI but it's only passive and video. I still need a separate audio signal which sucks. I plan to fix that some day. Anyway, does anyone have any experience with this mobo? Thanks!

rygy

02-11-09, 08:51 PM

I'm looking at this motherboard too and besides the difference in power consumption is there a reason the MSI K9N2GM-FIH is better than the Asus M3N78-EM?

I know the Asus has a few more features; SPDIF, DVI and eSATA but should I save my $20, lose these features and get the MSI?

jackooze

02-11-09, 10:27 PM

Koggy

02-11-09, 11:16 PM

Configuration check please:

CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 chipset ATX
Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100255U Radeon HD 4670 512MB - PASSIVE COOLING
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA
Blu-ray DVD-ROM: LG GGC-H20L
CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX
Case: Zalman HD160XT PLUS (with 7-inch LCD touchscreen)

This is basically Renethx’s mid-range ATX recommendation with a passively cooled 4670 card, Blu-Ray ROM, and the really expensive Zalman HD160XT PLUS case that has the 7-inch touchscreen LCD. I want the touchscreen/Imon interface so I can fire up music and Internet audio streams without having to turn on the TV. I also want to be able to read the artist/title from the sofa. The LCD screen will allow me to do all of that.

Other uses for this rig include watching Blu-Ray discs, downloaded videos, streaming video (Netflix, Hulu, etc…) – all via Windows 7 Media Center. Most of the data will be on a back-end NAS (HP HP EX485 MediaSmart Windows Home Server). I also will do some light gaming on this HTPC.

I tried to balance power, cooling, noise, and performance. Anything I missed? Any suggested changes?

Thanks!

PS - Renehtx - I'm sending you a thank you via Paypal - you have done an awesome service to the avsforum community...

rygy

02-12-09, 01:27 AM

Can someone please explain the difference between these two processors ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340343%204018&StoreType=-1&CompareItemList=N82E16819115202%2cN82E16819115041&bop=And
http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=core+i7+vs+core+2

Really? A simple Google search will tell you that the Core i7 is the latest silicon from Intel; meant to replace the Core 2 chips. It has a different socket so it won't work with socket 775 motherboards. The biggest difference is the integrated memory controller ala AMD K8 chips.

renethx

02-12-09, 01:49 AM

Only question, do I need to add anything? AZUZ Xonor 1.3, or a graphics card? Would like to get Video and Sound going through one HDMI out to the A/V receiver. Any comments or recommendation/changes I would appreciate.
You don't need a sound card or a graphics card for video/audio in one HDMI cable, but you can use them if you want HD audio bitstreaming and/or better video post-processing.

Do you do lots of encoding? Otherwise you can save money by choosing Core 2 Duo E7xxx/E8xxx.

For what purpose do you use RAID? Performance increase is useless in this type of system. you can save money by choosing a normal 7200 rpm drive (such as WD6400AAKS, fast and quiet enough for a normal HTPC).

renethx

02-12-09, 02:01 AM

Here is what I want - any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Quad Core CPU fast enough to handle smooth MKV decoding and playback.
Video card with HDMI output that can also pass through any of the audio formats available today and output HD video.
Blu-Ray player
HTPC type case - small footprint preferred.
I am thinking Solid State drive. I don't need any space for media - only OS and software. I figure solid state will be fast and quiet.
- A quad-core is overkill for video playback. It's good for encoding, however. (Pixelation/stuttering is perhaps a player/codec problem.)
- If you mean bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio by "pass through any of the audio formats available today", then you need a HDMI sound card such as ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 or Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD (March). Otherwise (i.e. decoding these audio formats in PC sending them as LPCM over HDMI), any system at page 85 is fine.
- SSD is silent. But a good normal HDD is quiet enough.

renethx

02-12-09, 02:16 AM

Renethx, thank you for your info! What do you think of the NVIDIA GeForce 8300 IGP vs the 8200? Is it worth the extra 15 -20 bucks? I'm now looking specificaly at ASUS M3N78-EM with an AMD 64 X2 7750 Kuma processor. That way I can use the S/PDIF out for my audio. My AVR does have HDMI but it's only passive and video. I still need a separate audio signal which sucks. I plan to fix that some day. Anyway, does anyone have any experience with this mobo? Thanks!

I'm looking at this motherboard too and besides the difference in power consumption is there a reason the MSI K9N2GM-FIH is better than the Asus M3N78-EM?

I know the Asus has a few more features; SPDIF, DVI and eSATA but should I save my $20, lose these features and get the MSI?
There is no difference between 8200 and 8300 in video playback. The only drawback of M3N78-EM is high power consumption with an AM2+ processor (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15356946#post15356946)). IMO 140W is too high just for video playback (in particular when compared with 70W of GA-E7AUM-DS2H (GF9400)+Pentium DC E5200). If you don't mind it (yep electricity is so cheap in US), M3N78-EM is the best choice.

The MSI board is much better in power consumption (so I chose it in my recommendation). It's a basic stable board, but may lack the features you want. You can use ASUS S/PDIF module (http://www.google.com/products?q=asus++%22S/PDIF%22+module) for S/PDIF (or you can build a coaxial bracket yourself).

****************************************

The power consumption measured with Kill-A-Watt of the system consisting of

- CPU
- MB
- 2 x 1GB DDR2-800
- 1 x HD
- 1 x LG drive
- Antec NSK2480

at idle/BD playback with PowerDVD/x264 HD Benchmark (Cool'n'Quiet on):

MB/CPU|Idle|BD w/ PowerDVD|x264 HD Benchmark
K9N2GM-FIH (8200)/7750|73W|98W|133W
M3N78-EM (8300)/7750|94W|140W|165W
GA-E7AUM-DS2H (9400)/E5200|52W|70W|74W

renethx

02-12-09, 02:37 AM

Can someone please explain the difference between these two processors ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010340343%204018&StoreType=-1&CompareItemList=N82E16819115202%2cN82E16819115041&bop=And
Core i7 is the latest Intel desktop processor. It's simply the best desktop processor in the world (overkill for simple tasks such as video playback of course). It uses a different socket (LGA1366) from the other Intel desktop processors (LGA775) and requires DDR3 memory. I chose it only in the premium ATX system at page 85 because of higher overall cost.

renethx

02-12-09, 03:32 AM

Configuration check please:

CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 chipset ATX
Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100255U Radeon HD 4670 512MB - PASSIVE COOLING
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA
Blu-ray DVD-ROM: LG GGC-H20L
CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX
Case: Zalman HD160XT PLUS (with 7-inch LCD touchscreen)

This is basically Renethx’s mid-range ATX recommendation with a passively cooled 4670 card, Blu-Ray ROM, and the really expensive Zalman HD160XT PLUS case that has the 7-inch touchscreen LCD. I want the touchscreen/Imon interface so I can fire up music and Internet audio streams without having to turn on the TV. I also want to be able to read the artist/title from the sofa. The LCD screen will allow me to do all of that.

Other uses for this rig include watching Blu-Ray discs, downloaded videos, streaming video (Netflix, Hulu, etc…) – all via Windows 7 Media Center. Most of the data will be on a back-end NAS (HP HP EX485 MediaSmart Windows Home Server). I also will do some light gaming on this HTPC.

I tried to balance power, cooling, noise, and performance. Anything I missed? Any suggested changes?
Should be a nice system. The only possible problem is GPU overheating when playing games (GPU consumes as much as 59W at 3D peak). A GPU fan may (or may not) be necessary for good airflow. In general even a quiet slow GPU fan is better in cooling down GPU and in overall noise of the system than raising the fan speed of the CPU fan/case fans.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133307&stc=1&d=1234427208

(The drawing is for the non-Plus version. The Plus has an exhaust fan at the HDD cage.)

dbone1026

02-12-09, 07:04 AM

I have the ASUS Radeon 4670 in my HTPC. Although the sound of the stock fan isn't horrible it is a little louder then I would like. Any recommendations on a replacement?

renethx

02-12-09, 07:12 AM

i have the asus radeon 4670 in my htpc. Although the sound of the stock fan isn't horrible it is a little louder then i would like. Any recommendations on a replacement?
zalman vf900.

renethx

02-12-09, 09:21 AM

NVIDIA Collaborates With Microsoft To Make Premium, Low-Cost PCs A Reality (http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1234354371335.html)

SANTA CLARA, CA—FEBRUARY 11, 2009—In an effort to deliver an outstanding computing experience on small, low power PCs, NVIDIA announced today that NVIDIA® ION™ has been Certified for Windows Vista. With NVIDIA ION and premium versions of Microsoft Windows, small form factor notebook and desktop PCs will have rich media capabilities and full graphics support for the first time.

Microsoft Corp. has validated NVIDIA ION with certified Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL) drivers for Windows Vista Home Premium. NVIDIA is working with Microsoft, PC manufacturers, software developers, and Windows eco-system partners to bring ION-based PCs to market by summer of 2009. ION-based mini-notebooks and compact desktop PCs will have industry-leading performance at price points as low as $299.

Mike Ybarra, general manager for the Windows division at Microsoft, states: “Customers have told us they expect a full Windows experience across a variety of PC designs. What many people call a ‘netbook’ today is really a small notebook, and users expect it to perform like one. With NVIDIA’s ION platform combined with Windows Vista Home Premium, consumers can get an affordable, premium Windows experience in a small notebook or desktop form factor. From browsing the web and checking email to streaming music or watching movies, it’s an excellent solution for everyday computing.”

Microsoft has certified the NVIDIA ION platform to ensure that upcoming ION-based PCs will deliver:

* Silky smooth 1080p high definition video including Blu-ray movies
* Exciting video game play with support for Microsoft’s DirectX 10 API
* Support for premium Windows Vista features including Aero Glass and Flip3D
* GPU acceleration for faster photo editing and video transcoding

Microsoft’s WHQL certification for Windows Vista Home Premium validates the NVIDIA ION platform as customer-ready.

“NVIDIA ION and Windows are a perfect match,” said Drew Henry, general manager of the MCP business unit at NVIDIA. “It is great to have Microsoft work with us to drive Windows with ION into these new low-priced notebooks and really small desktop PCs, which previously wasn’t possible with other solutions. This is a big win for consumers!”

About the NVIDIA ION Platform
The NVIDIA ION platform provides a quantum leap in mainstream graphics performance – while using less than half the space of traditional solutions – for smaller, faster, lighter, full-featured notebooks and desktop PCs. The ION platform unlocks the power of the Atom CPU by combining it with a great NVIDIA GPU.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133328&stc=1&d=1234448111

Reviews on Ion

- AnandTech (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3509&p=1)
- Guru of 3D (http://www.guru3d.com/article/nvidia-ion-platform-review-preview/1)
- HotHardware (http://hothardware.com/Articles/NVIDIA-Ion-Reference-PC-Platform-Performance-Deep-Dive-/?page=1)
- PC Perspective (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=663&type=expert&pid=1)
- Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/nvidia-ion-atom,review-31506.html)

peaces

02-12-09, 10:41 AM

You don't need a sound card or a graphics card for video/audio in one HDMI cable, but you can use them if you want HD audio bitstreaming and/or better video post-processing.

Do you do lots of encoding? Otherwise you can save money by choosing Core 2 Duo E7xxx/E8xxx.

For what purpose do you use RAID? Performance increase is useless in this type of system. you can save money by choosing a normal 7200 rpm drive (such as WD6400AAKS, fast and quiet enough for a normal HTPC).

Thanks a lot for your comments and opinions - they are greatly appriciated... Here are answers, and a kind of off base question...

RAID? I like the extra insurance, I have two PCs both raid, one lost a drive and replaced and came right back up no problem. I know it does not solve software curruption, but I havn't seen this in a long time (unless you are talking about Exchange Server - the worst software ever invented!).. And for the extra $$$ it is just insruance - if you have a disk failure, recovery is quick and not very time consuming, and if you are lazy and dont backup, like most people (including myself), it is a data saver...

CPU - Yea I was going to get the 8550 but seems they are not easy to be had, so I just went to the next level up. Will look again, after this...

I saw the post just above, about the sound card, will more then likly get the Xonar 1.3 - seems the recent posts on this card has most problems fixed (w/ TMT). I am sure the other card will work, but would expect 6 months of fixes before all issued are ironed our, software always lags hardware...

I do have a question - I have a Xonor DX2 in another PC, I set the Vista Mixer to 192KHZ, and the software with Xonor stops working. I set it back to 44.1HZ (default CD) and it works. Question is, does this Vista Mixer setting effect anything in any of the sound recomendations (xonor 1.3)?

jackooze

02-12-09, 11:10 AM

If you don't play games, choose HIS HD 4670. You need an IR receiver/a remote, a BD drive, OS. Read the TV tuner section at page 1.

Thanks Renethx for the reply, realy appreciate the help.
I have just a few more questions before I start buying these parts.

1. I am kind of confused regarding the sound card. There were none shown on any of the setups on page 85. Can you please explain.
2. Will this setup work correctly with the hardware and power supply chosen.
3. Can you give me advice on how to make sure that all the hardware will fit into the case. I don't want to order everything and end up stock.
4. Do you know if this setup will create a lot of noise ? I've read that the video card fan is loud and not sure what other option to go with.

Thanks.

MY CHOICE: NEWEGG.COM $982 or $1049

• CPU:. Intel Core2 Quad Q9550 2.83 GHz 12MB $279.99
• CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90, $44.99
• Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 chipset ATX, $134.99
• Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $47.95
• Graphics Card: Sapphire 100258-1GL Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256 bit GDDR3 $166.99
• PSU: Enermax PRO82+ 625W EPR625AWT, $125
• Hard Drive: Western Digital WD10EADS 1TB 32MB Cache SATA $109.99
• Blu-ray DVD-ROM: LG GGC-H20L
• Case: Silverstone LC13B-E ATX $114.99

renethx

02-12-09, 11:37 AM

Thanks a lot for your comments and opinions - they are greatly appriciated... Here are answers, and a kind of off base question...

RAID? I like the extra insurance, I have two PCs both raid, one lost a drive and replaced and came right back up no problem. I know it does not solve software curruption, but I havn't seen this in a long time (unless you are talking about Exchange Server - the worst software ever invented!).. And for the extra $$$ it is just insruance - if you have a disk failure, recovery is quick and not very time consuming, and if you are lazy and dont backup, like most people (including myself), it is a data saver...

CPU - Yea I was going to get the 8550 but seems they are not easy to be had, so I just went to the next level up. Will look again, after this...

I saw the post just above, about the sound card, will more then likly get the Xonar 1.3 - seems the recent posts on this card has most problems fixed (w/ TMT). I am sure the other card will work, but would expect 6 months of fixes before all issued are ironed our, software always lags hardware...

I do have a question - I have a Xonor DX2 in another PC, I set the Vista Mixer to 192KHZ, and the software with Xonor stops working. I set it back to 44.1HZ (default CD) and it works. Question is, does this Vista Mixer setting effect anything in any of the sound recomendations (xonor 1.3)?
IMO using two Raptor 150GB (~$300 in total) in RAID 1 is a very ineffective solution (cost-wise and practically), in particular for HTPC, where software problems more often happen than HDD failure. I would use a 100GB partition of WD6400AAKS 640GB ~$70 for OS and make a complete backup of that partition in one of data drives at several stages of installation (use Acronis True Image or a similar utility). In case something wrong happens to OS (e.g. "codec hell"), recovery from a working state is almost instant. RAID 1 is useless for this type of problems.

Recommended dual-core processors are Core 2 Duo E8500, E8400, E7500, E7400.

Perhaps you'd better wait for Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133332&stc=1&d=1234456464

The effect of Vista Audio Engine on Xonar has been discussed in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1118204).

Koggy

02-12-09, 11:38 AM

Should be a nice system. The only possible problem is GPU overheating when playing games (GPU consumes as much as 59W at 3D peak). A GPU fan may (or may not) be necessary for good airflow. In general even a quiet slow GPU fan is better in cooling down GPU and in overall noise of the system than raising the fan speed of the CPU fan/case fans.

Thanks Rene. So if I tried to go forward with the passively cooled Sapphire 4670 card and it ended up running too hot, what GPU cooler would you recommend I add to cool it back down? Not sure what I could use given the larger two-slot size of the passive card...?

Or is the better approach just to skip the passive card and go with the actively cooled card (HIS H467QT512P) in your guide? How much total noise do you think that would add over the passive card?

Thanks for all the help - I just paypal'd you 20 bones - hope that helps... :)

renethx

02-12-09, 12:29 PM

I have just a few more questions before I start buying these parts.

1. I am kind of confused regarding the sound card. There were none shown on any of the setups on page 85. Can you please explain.
2. Will this setup work correctly with the hardware and power supply chosen.
3. Can you give me advice on how to make sure that all the hardware will fit into the case. I don't want to order everything and end up stock.
4. Do you know if this setup will create a lot of noise ? I've read that the video card fan is loud and not sure what other option to go with.
Sound card is necessary only when you want:

Good analog sound without using an expensive pre-pro or AVR (you still need an amplifier unless your speakers are powered);
Support for EAX 5.0 in gaming;
Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream through HDMI
Surely they work fine together. I recommend HIS H485QS1GP (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161245) instead of Sapphire (quietness is guaranteed). Another choice of PSU is MODU82+ 625W, a modular cable version of PRO82+ (easier to work with). LC13 is a smaller ATX case and maybe you have a problem with the graphics card (you may not be able to use one of the two HDD cages). Antec Fusion Remote Max (1x120mm+1x140mm fan; quiet and effective) is roomier as well as Zalman HD160 Plus.

jackooze

02-12-09, 01:26 PM

Sound card is necessary only when you want:

Good analog sound without using an expensive pre-pro or AVR (you still need an amplifier unless your speakers are powered);
Support for EAX 5.0 in gaming;
Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream through HDMI
Surely they work fine together. I recommend HIS H485QS1GP (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161245) instead of Sapphire (quietness is guaranteed). Another choice of PSU is MODU82+ 625W, a modular cable version of PRO82+ (easier to work with). LC13 is a smaller ATX case and maybe you have a problem with the graphics card (you may not be able to use one of the two HDD cages). Antec Fusion Remote Max (1x120mm+1x140mm fan; quiet and effective) is roomier as well as Zalman HD160 Plus.

Once again I am very thankful that you helping me out because this is so stressful. The HTPC main function will be connected to my Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and to my Samsung LN46A860 to watch movies and sometimes play games. What sound card would you propose ?

renethx

02-12-09, 02:32 PM

Thanks Rene. So if I tried to go forward with the passively cooled Sapphire 4670 card and it ended up running too hot, what GPU cooler would you recommend I add to cool it back down? Not sure what I could use given the larger two-slot size of the passive card...?

Or is the better approach just to skip the passive card and go with the actively cooled card (HIS H467QT512P) in your guide? How much total noise do you think that would add over the passive card?
Zalman VF900 is recommended in case of overheating. (Many people bought not-so-quiet ASUS/GIGABYTE HD 4670 cards [perhaps carelessly] and ended up with VF900.)

Yup, I usually recommend HIS Hightech H467QT512P. If you are really picky about noise, VF900 is better. SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102818) may be worth a try.

Thanks. :)

renethx

02-12-09, 02:38 PM

Once again I am very thankful that you helping me out because this is so stressful. The HTPC main function will be connected to my Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver and to my Samsung LN46A860 to watch movies and sometimes play games. What sound card would you propose ?
Well, HDMI audio from Radeon HD 4850 should be enough (at first). You can add a HDMI sound card, either Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim or X-Fi HomeTheater HD, anytime later (none of them is available yet) if you want HD audio bitstreams.

renethx

02-12-09, 02:52 PM

Has anyone ever tried any of these? CLICKY (http://tv.hexus.net/show/2008/11/HEXUS_insight_Meet_the_Antec_Veris_range/) They're like, remote controls for your HTPC. I just want to see if anyone has used anything or if there are any other companies that make these. Thanks!
These are manufactured by SoundGraph (http://www.soundgraph.com/Eng_/main.aspx) and are the same as those in Antec Fusion Remote, SilverStone, Thermaltake, Zalman cases.

jesseasi

02-12-09, 03:24 PM

- A quad-core is overkill for video playback. It's good for encoding, however. (Pixelation/stuttering is perhaps a player/codec problem.)
- If you mean bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio by "pass through any of the audio formats available today", then you need a HDMI sound card such as ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 or Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD (March). Otherwise (i.e. decoding these audio formats in PC sending them as LPCM over HDMI), any system at page 85 is fine.
- SSD is silent. But a good normal HDD is quiet enough.

Renethx,

I have been reading all your replies to everyone - you are an invaluable source to this whole community. I will for sure be doing the donation thing once I get all my stuff sorted out.

Based on many of your replies - I have decided it might be better for me to upgrade my home computer and take some of the parts from it to build my new HTPC.

I do backup all my blu ray movies to MKVs and the 10-14 hours it takes kills me. So I am thinking of getting one of the new Intel i7 2.66 CPU's and motherboard combo for my home machine (used for encoding).

For my HTPC I would have:

Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4 (had this for about 2 years)
Intel D975XBX2 (would this board be ok for HTPC? It is full ATX)
8GB Ram

Power supply? Suggestion?

HD - Either use existing WD 750GB drives or go SSD. I don't need any storage as everything is streamed from an unraid server.

Video card - can you recommend a VERY GOOD one? I would like to pass through audio and video through HDMI.

Sound Card - ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 (needed to pass through all HD audio formats - I believe)

Blu-Ray drive - only needs to play. (Is there one that is considered the best?)

Case - what is the best HTPC case you recommend? I don't think I need an LCD screen. I'd like it to look like another piece of home theater equipment.

Remote Control? Is there a best?

Goals:
Something that boots up super fast (that why I am interested in SSD drive).
Something that is nearly silent. (another reason for SSD)
I plan to run XBMC on Vista x64 - I would like to turn it on and have XBMC come up automatically. (unless you recommend a different OS)
A remote that can power on the unit and control XBMC easily.

I plan to stream HD Movies in MKV format, DVD's, FLAC Audio, view photo albums.

I appreciate any and all advice. Thanks!

tighr

02-12-09, 04:02 PM

dbone1026

02-12-09, 04:06 PM

Anybody still doing anything with HD-DVD? I have dozens of HD-DVDs that I've picked up over the past year for cheap, want to know what options there are for backing these up, I'd assume the requirements are similar to Blu-Ray.

I have about 30+ HD DVDs that I have since converted to 1080p mkvs (approx 8GB per movie) for streaming to my HTPCs

renethx

02-12-09, 04:34 PM

I do backup all my blu ray movies to MKVs and the 10-14 hours it takes kills me. So I am thinking of getting one of the new Intel i7 2.66 CPU's and motherboard combo for my home machine (used for encoding).

For my HTPC I would have:

Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4 (had this for about 2 years)
Intel D975XBX2 (would this board be ok for HTPC? It is full ATX)
8GB Ram

Power supply? Suggestion?

HD - Either use existing WD 750GB drives or go SSD. I don't need any storage as everything is streamed from an unraid server.

Video card - can you recommend a VERY GOOD one? I would like to pass through audio and video through HDMI.

Sound Card - ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 (needed to pass through all HD audio formats - I believe)

Blu-Ray drive - only needs to play. (Is there one that is considered the best?)

Case - what is the best HTPC case you recommend? I don't think I need an LCD screen. I'd like it to look like another piece of home theater equipment.

Remote Control? Is there a best?

Goals:
Something that boots up super fast (that why I am interested in SSD drive).
Something that is nearly silent. (another reason for SSD)
I plan to run XBMC on Vista x64 - I would like to turn it on and have XBMC come up automatically. (unless you recommend a different OS)
A remote that can power on the unit and control XBMC easily.

I plan to stream HD Movies in MKV format, DVD's, FLAC Audio, view photo albums.
A good news is that converting BD to MKV is relatively quick (it takes less than 2 hours per disk, unless you want to change resolution), and hence no powerful CPU is necessary. So Q6600/D975XBX2/8GB RAM is overkill. A problem is that Q6600 consumes higher power than a 45 nm dual-core processor and hence causes more noise, that completely negates the use of SSD. D975XBX2 is a bit old and it supports only 65 nm FSB1066/800 processors, that is another problem. So I recommend you to start from the scratch.

MKV does not support any HD audio codec in its original format. You will need to transcode it to, usually FLAC. So you don't need a HDMI sound card. HDMI audio from a current graphic card (multichannel LPCM) is enough.

Please take a look at the mid-range recommended systems at page 85. If you don't need many expansion cards (TV tuners etc.) or lots of storage space, microATX should be good. So a possible system would be the microATX low-end Intel/NVIDIA system. You can change the case to another one such as Antec Fusion Remote Black and Corsair VX450W power supply (supports full-height expansion cards). As you have RAM, you don't need it (4GB is enough).

- Core 2 Duo E7400 or Pentium Dual-Core E5200
- GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mb
- Scythe Ninja Mini (passive cooling)
- SDD of your choice or WD6400AAKS 640GB (very quiet)
- LG GGC-H20L BD drive
- Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX (or Enermax MODU82+ 525W if you like modular cables)
- Antec Fusion Remote Black (replace the fans with Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D)
- Logitech Harmony 880 or One

dbone1026

02-12-09, 05:07 PM

- Antec Fusion Remote Black (replace the fans with Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D)

Any reason why you recommend replacing the fans in the Antec?

vblanche

02-12-09, 05:10 PM

Any reason why you recommend replacing the fans in the Antec?
Hi, scythe fans are more silent than Antec...

dbone1026

02-12-09, 05:16 PM

Hi, scythe fans are more silent than Antec...

Thanks, was curious as my Antec with the stock fans is already very quiet, wasn't sure if it was a heat/cooling issue

rmmeli

02-12-09, 05:34 PM

RusskySam

02-12-09, 06:04 PM

...when I start my htpc up from standby, there is video on my tv but no sound. I get windows system sounds but no sounds from my movie. Is this a driver problem or a receiver problem? ... Hope someone can point me in the right direction.

My Marantz SR-4002 does something quite similar when changing HDMI sources.
Best crude fix I have found so far is to turn receiver off, then on. I'd try this in your case. Annoying "feature" of HDCP...

jesseasi

02-12-09, 06:48 PM

A good news is that converting BD to MKV is relatively quick (it takes less than 2 hours per disk, unless you want to change resolution), and hence no powerful CPU is necessary. So Q6600/D975XBX2/8GB RAM is overkill. A problem is that Q6600 consumes higher power than a 45 nm dual-core processor and hence causes more noise, that completely negates the use of SSD. D975XBX2 is a bit old and it supports only 65 nm FSB1066/800 processors, that is another problem. So I recommend you to start from the scratch.

MKV does not support any HD audio codec in its original format. You will need to transcode it to, usually FLAC. So you don't need a HDMI sound card. HDMI audio from a current graphic card (multichannel LPCM) is enough.

Please take a look at the mid-range recommended systems at page 85. If you don't need many expansion cards (TV tuners etc.) or lots of storage space, microATX should be good. So a possible system would be the microATX low-end Intel/NVIDIA system. You can change the case to another one such as Antec Fusion Remote Black and Corsair VX450W power supply (supports full-height expansion cards). As you have RAM, you don't need it (4GB is enough).

- Core 2 Duo E7400 or Pentium Dual-Core E5200
- GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mb
- Scythe Ninja Mini (passive cooling)
- SDD of your choice or WD6400AAKS 640GB (very quiet)
- LG GGC-H20L BD drive
- Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX (or Enermax MODU82+ 525W if you like modular cables)
- Antec Fusion Remote Black (replace the fans with Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D)
- Logitech Harmony 880 or One

Not to get too far off topic. But what is used to convert a BD to MKV is such short order? I am currently using RipBot264. I don't change the resultions -but I have been taking 20-30GB movies and converting them to 10-12GB movies.

I love all your suggestions and I am checking these out right now.

Here is what I have come up with

CPU Q6600 Quad Core 2.4 (already own)
Memory 8GB DDR2 800 memory (already own)
CPU Sink Scythe Ninja Mini (passive cooling)
Mainboard - GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
Case Antec Fusion Remote Black
Power Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT
Blu Ray - LG GGC-H20L - Combo Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (I have about 60 HD-DVD movies, would be nice to play them)
Vista x64 Ultimate

Debating:
G.Skill 64GB SSD (139.00) (-Quiet and Fast boot up) or Using one of my extra 500gb SATA drives

Onboard Video HDMI or HIS H485QT512P. Will a better video card make things better?

Audio - Asus Xonar DHAV 1.3 sound. I would like to be able to pass through audio from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to my home theater processor. Then again I may never need this.

How is this starting to shape up?

rotelmania

02-12-09, 10:00 PM

renethx

02-13-09, 12:05 AM

Thanks, was curious as my Antec with the stock fans is already very quiet, wasn't sure if it was a heat/cooling issue
- Antec Tricool 120mm @Low (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page3.html#tricool): 20 dBA@1m / 870 RPM / 21CFM / 1.18W
- Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page5.html#sflex): 20 dBA@1m / 850 RPM / 23CFM / 0.34W

Both are 20 dBA@1m, but SEF21D is quieter than Tricool in my ears. Scythe S-FLEX SEF21D/Noctua NF-S12-800 is good for the pickiest people.

renethx

02-13-09, 12:23 AM

I remember reading about this problem in a forum and maybe it was this one.
I have a hdmi connection between my htpc (vista x64 with HD 4670) and my onkyo 705. Everything works fine with Vista Media Center - sound and video. However when I start my htpc up from standby, there is video on my tv but no sound. I get windows system sounds but no sounds from my movie. Is this a driver problem or a receiver problem? Like I said, I remember other people experiencing the same problem but cannot remember where I read it now. Hope someone can point me in the right direction.
It's a driver problem.

- ATI Radeon HD 4600 & 4800 series support 7.1 channel HDMI audio! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1029603) (search with "standby")
- EDID Override Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1091403)
- Catalyst 9.1 - EDID issue solved? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1114409)

renethx

02-13-09, 01:18 AM

Not to get too far off topic. But what is used to convert a BD to MKV is such short order? I am currently using RipBot264. I don't change the resultions -but I have been taking 20-30GB movies and converting them to 10-12GB movies.

I love all your suggestions and I am checking these out right now.

Here is what I have come up with

CPU Q6600 Quad Core 2.4 (already own)
Memory 8GB DDR2 800 memory (already own)
CPU Sink Scythe Ninja Mini (passive cooling)
Mainboard - GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
Case Antec Fusion Remote Black
Power Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT
Blu Ray - LG GGC-H20L - Combo Blu-Ray and HD-DVD (I have about 60 HD-DVD movies, would be nice to play them)
Vista x64 Ultimate

Debating:
G.Skill 64GB SSD (139.00) (-Quiet and Fast boot up) or Using one of my extra 500gb SATA drives

Onboard Video HDMI or HIS H485QT512P. Will a better video card make things better?

Audio - Asus Xonar DHAV 1.3 sound. I would like to be able to pass through audio from HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to my home theater processor. Then again I may never need this.

How is this starting to shape up?
RipBot264 is an encoder. A recommended ripping tool is eac3to+MKVtoolnix. A good guide is HD to mkv .....the options are endless!!!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1033822). Several GUI's for eac3to are mentioned there (search with "GUI"; e.g. Clown_BD (http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=25818)).

Cooling Q6600 passively may be a bit difficult with a mATX case+Ninja Mini, depending on the tasks you do. Here are two charts of power consumption comparison from BeHardware:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133401&stc=1&d=1234503766 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133402&stc=1&d=1234503766

A quiet 80mm CPU fan (<= 1500 rpm) should not be a big noise source of course. E7400 (dual-core) and Q8300 (quad-core; 30W lower than Q6600 at full load) are my current recommendations.

Onboard video is good enough for progressive contents (and adding a graphics card increases the number of noise source). Audio from the onboard HDMI supports all the formats in MKV.

If you want a HDMI sound card, you'd better wait for Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim (TMT) or X-Fi HomeTheater HD (PowerDVD). (Perhaps HD audio bitstream from HD DVD will never be supported in TMT, and HD DVD is not supported in PowerDVD.)

renethx

02-13-09, 01:40 AM

I still have question about 24p playback. I have a samsung LCD tv that capable of displaying at 120 HZ. What refresh rate should I set on my HTPC when playing blue ray movies? Should I set my HTPC refresh rate to 24 or 60 HZ? If I need to set my HTPC refresh rate to 60 than, what is the rave about playing blue ray movie at 24p? Please help me understand this, as I need to decide on the graphic card.

If I still need to set the refresh rate to 24hz to get best picture quality with blue ray, would it be better to get geforce9500? If I go with geforce 9500, can I connect the hdmi to a sound card like azuntech to be able to bitstream HD audio?

thanks
23Hz (= 24Hz/1.001) or 24Hz. Here is a quotation from EIZO FlexScan HD2442W (http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/hd2442w/index.asp) (48Hz capable):

Smooth Motion Picture Playback
The HD2442W comes with 1080/24p display capability so it can play Blu-ray disks and other video formats smoothly without the unwanted motion artifacts or “judder.” This is because motion pictures are usually shot at 24 fps which means that any monitor or TV which cannot support playback at this rate will have to convert frames in a process called “pulldown.” The resulting judder is especially noticeable during slow, steady pans across a scene with transitions between frames appearing jerky or staggered.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133403&stc=1&d=1234506990

The above figure is the case of 60Hz (top) vs 48Hz (bottom). If a 120Hz display receives 24Hz signals, each frame is repeated five times (5 x 24Hz = 120Hz) inside the display. Sending 60Hz signals to the display means sending an uneven sequence of frames 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 ... to the display ((2+3)/2 x 24Hz = 60Hz) that causes the pulldown judder.

Further readings:

- DVD Benchmark Part 5 - Progressive Scan DVD (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html) (the subject is interlaced contents, but it is still helpful to understand 24p.)

dbone1026

02-13-09, 07:15 AM

- Antec Tricool 120mm @Low (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page3.html#tricool): 20 dBA@1m / 870 RPM / 21CFM / 1.18W
- Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page5.html#sflex): 20 dBA@1m / 850 RPM / 23CFM / 0.34W

Both are 20 dBA@1m, but SEF21D is quieter than Tricool in my ears. Scythe S-FLEX SEF21D/Noctua NF-S12-800 is good for the pickiest people.

Thanks. This may be a little off topic, but would you recommend using some of the quieter pc fans for A/V cabinets as well? My Antec HTPC is in an enclosed cabinet with my PS3, Xbox360, Receiver, etc... so I need to address some heat issues within the cabinet (there are grills at the top of the cabinet to allow for airflow)

renethx

02-13-09, 07:23 AM

Thanks. This may be a little off topic, but would you recommend using some of the quieter pc fans for A/V cabinets as well? My Antec HTPC is in an enclosed cabinet with my PS3, Xbox360, Receiver, etc... so I need to address some heat issues within the cabinet (there are grills at the top of the cabinet to allow for airflow)
Which size of fans do you want? Does "cabinet" mean there are front doors closed most of the time?

dbone1026

02-13-09, 07:33 AM

Which size of fans do you want? Does "cabinet" mean there are front doors closed most of the time?

Yeah, doors are closed all the time (or that is the goal). It is a built in wall unit, so no access to the back or sides.

I have attached two pics. the first shows the grills at the top of the cabinet to allow for airflow and the second pic shows the cabinet (my Antec in the bottom left). The back of each shelf has a banana shaped cutout to allow for air to move as well.

I don't really have any size fans in mind, just trying to figure out a good way to keep the temps down in the cabinet, and quiet of course. This was one of the reason why I asked about the stock Antec fans you mentioned, as I am concerned with keeping the unit as cool as possible (I just ordered the zalman vf900 to replace the stock fan on my Asus 4670 as per your recommendation)

Speqtre

02-13-09, 09:20 AM

I have about 30+ HD DVDs that I have since converted to 1080p mkvs (approx 8GB per movie) for streaming to my HTPCs

Can you please elaborate on this - what tools you are using, what audio format you're getting, and what you stream to for satisfactory playback??

Thanks, as I need to start doing this too!

dbone1026

02-13-09, 09:37 AM

Can you please elaborate on this - what tools you are using, what audio format you're getting, and what you stream to for satisfactory playback??

Thanks, as I need to start doing this too!

I am using Ripbot264 and converting to mkvs. I set to 4.0 Profile (Blu Ray Profile), 2-Pass, Auto Crop, lock the size to 8150MB and keep original audio. I am able to play these on my HTPCs using Vista Media Center, XBMC, etc... (anything that can play back the mkvs)

anywhereanytime

02-13-09, 10:40 AM

I need some expert help - Building a new mATX HTPC and will follow Renethx recommends for Intel/NVIDIA mid with Mobo = GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H

For a variety of reasons I want an Intel Quad core and they are all over the map - I haven't tracked these recently but want 45 nm and I just don't need the 9550 or 9650 at the MUCH higher price

I also have lots of fast 800 memory which I want to use first - so that may preclude the i7 option but I don't know?

Which of these are best - there are ALL around the same price except the i7 which is $229 @ $50 more but the latest/greatest

Q8300 = $190
Q9300 = $180
Q9400 = $180
i7 920= $230

What's the most bang for the buck?

Thnx ...

renethx

02-13-09, 10:58 AM

Yeah, doors are closed all the time (or that is the goal)...
I don't have a good idea right now ...

dbone1026

02-13-09, 11:00 AM

I don't have a good idea right now ...

No prob, I will keep digging around.

renethx

02-13-09, 11:01 AM

chanakya

02-13-09, 11:12 AM

Finally ordered my system today. Thanks to everyone.
-Core 2 Duo E7400 ($35 off of antec fusion case on newegg)
- GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 mb
-Geminii II S heatsink
- WD6400AAKS 640GB
- Lite-on 6x BD drive
- CORSAIR CMPSU-400CX 400W ($30 after rebate at newegg.com)
- Antec Fusion Remote Black
- Logitech Harmony 880 (refurb)
-Arcsoft TMT

I am only using this system for HD playback, at this point. No gaming. Planning on using vista 32 sp1 for this build. Now if I do go for case fans that can be controlled by mobo ( Y power adapter could get to two case fans) , looks like 4-pin fan headers could come handy. How would one go about controlling northbridge 40mm fan, I don't see fan headers for that one on the board..

Thanks all again.

anywhereanytime

02-13-09, 11:41 AM

Core i7 requires a LGA1366 mb (> $200) and DDR3 SDRAM memory modules (still pricey). So this option is perhaps excluded. Then Q9400 is clearly the best bang for your buck.

Thanks for the detail Renethx ... what's the difference between the Q9300 and Q9400 - newer release?

renethx

02-13-09, 11:51 AM

Thanks for the detail Renethx ... what's the difference between the Q9300 and Q9400 - newer release?
Q9300 was released in March 2008, while Q9400 in August 2008. Apart from that, the only difference is clock speed: 2.66GHz and 2.50GHz. (Q9300 has been discontinued.)

rotelmania

02-13-09, 11:55 AM

23Hz (= 24Hz/1.001) or 24Hz. Here is a quotation from EIZO FlexScan HD2442W (http://www.eizo.com/products/lcd/hd2442w/index.asp) (48Hz capable):

The above figure is the case of 48Hz. For a 120Hz display, each frame is repeated five times (5 x 24Hz = 120Hz) inside the display. Sending 60Hz signals to the display means sending an uneven sequence of frames 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 ... to the display ((2+3)/2 x 24Hz = 60Hz) that causes the pulldown judder.

Further readings:

- DVD Benchmark Part 5 - Progressive Scan DVD (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html) (the subject is interlaced contents, but it is still helpful to understand 24p.)

If that the case, having an htpc that capable of sending 24p without problem is essential then. Would you recommend nvidia 9500 then? Can I connect the hdmi from video card to the sound card and from sound card (such as azuntech)to my receiver so that I can get bit stream hd audio?

renethx

02-13-09, 11:56 AM

Now if I do go for case fans that can be controlled by mobo ( Y power adapter could get to two case fans) , looks like 4-pin fan headers could come handy. How would one go about controlling northbridge 40mm fan, I don't see fan headers for that one on the board..
Just connect it to a 4-pin power connector for peripheral via a 3-pin to 4-pin power adapter. Or connect the case fans to a 4-pin power connector for peripheral and connect the 40mm fan to the mb fan connector.

renethx

02-13-09, 12:07 PM

If that the case, having an htpc that capable of sending 24p without problem is essential then. Would you recommend nvidia 9500 then? Can I connect the hdmi from video card to the sound card and from sound card (such as azuntech)to my receiver so that I can get bit stream hd audio?
As I wrote before, it depends on each person if 24p is essential or not. Perhaps many people in NTSC countries who have been accustomed to 2:3 pull-down (NTSC DVD) don't notice the difference. ATI cards are not that bad at 24p.

That's the normal way of connection.

rotelmania

02-13-09, 12:20 PM

Core i7 requires a LGA1366 mb (> $200) and DDR3 SDRAM memory modules (still pricey). So this option is perhaps excluded. Then Q9400 is clearly the best bang for your buck.

would you then recommend q9400 instead of q8300 in your recommended system?

renethx

02-13-09, 12:25 PM

would you then recommend q9400 instead of q8300 in your recommended system?
My recommendation is based on Intel's MSRP (Q9400: $224, Q8300: $183). If you can get Q9400 cheaper, then Q9400 could be your choice.

anywhereanytime

02-13-09, 12:33 PM

Q9300 was released in March 2008, while Q9400 in August 2008. Apart from that, the only difference is clock speed: 2.66GHz and 2.50GHz. (Q9300 has been discontinued.)

Renethx, I appreciate that detail ... I found this which others may find valuable http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?familyID=28398

I just bought the Q9400 retail at www.microcenter.com for $179.99 - lower than any of the online sources I found.

Just one more question for now - you had a great explanation of the benefits of a Quad vs. a Duo ... can you please point that out to me?

Thanks for the terrific thread.

renethx

02-13-09, 01:52 PM

Xigmatek Dark Knight-S1283V (http://www.xigmatek.com/product/air-dark-knight-s1283-v.php) for LGA775, LGA1366, Socket 754/939/AM2/AM2+/AM3. This is an improved version of Xigmatek HDT-S1283 (got Quality 9 out of 10 at silentpcreview.com (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article30-page1.html)). Good for SilverStone Crown CW02.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133466&stc=1&d=1234551332

renethx

02-13-09, 02:03 PM

you had a great explanation of the benefits of a Quad vs. a Duo ... can you please point that out to me?
Did I? I mentioned x264 HD Benchmark at several posts like this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15439039#post15439039).

anywhereanytime

02-13-09, 02:13 PM

Did I? I mentioned x264 HD Benchmark at several posts like this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15439039#post15439039).

It was NOT an HTPC specific comparison but Quad vs. Duo as I recall. Perhaps it was another blog post or review site - I will look this weekend and post when I find it ... thanks.

SithLurker

02-13-09, 04:29 PM

HD 4xxx works in the same way as GeForce card for video+GeForce 8200 for audio. You can connect one of the DVI/HDMI ports to the display for video and the other to AVR for audio.

Rene I must have not phrased my initial question correctly. What I wanted to know was if there would be issues if I try to use one of the HD4xxx's dvi/hdmi ports for audio and the other for video. This should be like a dual monitor setup. Only instead of monitor one of the ports will be connected to the AVR through HDMI for sound purposes only (stereo, DD/DTS passthrough, 5/7.1 LPCM). The video resolution for that that connection will be irrelevant. It can be 16x9 (if this is possible at all :D) as long as it comes with the flawless audio which matches the video (1080p) on the second port.

jackooze

02-13-09, 05:00 PM

Hello, this is my first time attempting to build my first HTPC or computer. I have read all the forum threads regarding exactly what I need regarding hardware for all my requirements. Thanks to Rene and all his useful setups on page 85 I was able to order all the parts for my HTPC. Now,I was wondering if someone can direct me to a forum or thread where directions are given on how to install the hardware. Such process as how hardware needs to be inserted . Also after all the hardware has been installed in the case, what is the procedure of installing drivers after the OS has been installed. I also read that BIOS will need an additional configuring, Can someone please help me out or direct me where I can get these answers.

I know this is such a newbie thing to ask but I am trying my best here, so please be nice.

Thanks