Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 26

Wickywik

02-13-09, 05:30 PM

Rene, thanks for all the direction for building an HD HTPC. This has definitely been a difficult choice but would be much harder without this thread and all of the great advice. My goal has been to build a htpc that can take over for my trusty old Panasonic Showstopper ReplayTV (pvr duty using BeyondTV via HDHomerun) along with hd playback and some light gaming. I was wanting something really inexpensive, lean and green and was building around the 45w. Athlon X2 5050e and even went to pairing it with the recommended GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP. I ordered it finally last night but canceled it first thing this morning after I figured out that I would actually be able to use my Antec NSK2480 case (although it is going to be a very tight fit).

The extra power that the Athlon X2 7750 has (along with the $67 price tag) has me thinking that this path might offer a little more power down the line without requiring a more expensive graphics card. Would it be worth underclocking to cut down on excessive heat? I'm not sure what to do for a mb. My avr doesn't have hdmi so I'll need to use optical. According to NE, there are 7 boards that are matx with optical out. Here's the link here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200022%201070930149%201075707619%201075211332&bop=And&Order=PRICE). Which one would be best?

Summary of the 6 boards (via newegg comparison (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200022%201070930149%201075707619%201075211332&bop=And&CompareItemList=N82E16813131318%2CN82E16813131324%2CN82E1681 3128360%2CN82E16813128379%2CN82E16813131354%2CN82E1681312834 1)):
ASUS M3N78-VM NVIDIA 8200 Audio chipset: VIA VT1708B $73
ASUS M3N78-EM NVIDIA 8300 Audio chipset: Realtek ALC1200 $90
ASUS M3A78-EM AMD 780G Audio chipset: Realtek ALC1200 $79
GA-MA78GM-US2H AMD 780G Audio chipset: Realtek ALC889A $80
GA-MA78GM-S2HP AMD 780G Audio chipset: Realtek ALC889A $80
GA-MA78GPM-DS2H AMD 780G Audio Chipset: Realtek ALC889A $95

Razumen

02-13-09, 05:46 PM

Hello, I'm going to be upgrading my HTPC in order to play HD videos (720P+1080P) with the added option of some gaming as well. These are the components I've selected so far: (*=new)

*CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.5GHZ 800FSB 2MB Retail Box
MB: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3
PSU: Enermax Liberty 500W
GPU: Geforce 7900GTX
RAM: Mushkin DDR2 4GB PC2-6400 (5-5-5-18)
Sound: Creative Audigy 2ZS
Case: Silverstone Lascala LC17B Black ATX HTPC Case 2X5.25 1X3.5 6X3.5INT W/ 2X80MM Case Fan

How does this look?
That motherboard on the list is in my current desktop, I'll be moving that over to the HTPC and replacing it with a Gigabyte EP45-UD3R ATX.
I plan on overclocking the CPU as I've heard the 5200 is quite a capable OCer (up to 4GHz in some cases). I'm not sure about CPU cooling yet so suggestions would be appreciated.

Another question I have concerns the input method and overscan: I have the HPTC hooked up to a Panasonic Projection TV (PT-47X54) via HDMI currently and have to use Nvidia's control panel to resize the desktop to fit because of overscan - is it possible that using component cables might get around this problem? If not I'll probably be forced to correct it using the service menu.

rotelmania

02-13-09, 09:58 PM

I am pretty much set on the component for my HTPC

Processor Intel core2 quad 9400
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P Intel P45 chipset ATX,
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit,
Video Card: HIS H467QT512P

The only thing left is power supply and cpu cooler. My question is do I need a 625 watt power supply? would 525 watt be enough?

I cannot find the ZEROtherm BTF90 fan cooler at newegg. Any other fan cooler that you would recommend?

thanks

rotelmania

02-13-09, 10:01 PM

renethx

02-13-09, 11:24 PM

Rene I must have not phrased my initial question correctly. What I wanted to know was if there would be issues if I try to use one of the HD4xxx's dvi/hdmi ports for audio and the other for video. This should be like a dual monitor setup. Only instead of monitor one of the ports will be connected to the AVR through HDMI for sound purposes only (stereo, DD/DTS passthrough, 5/7.1 LPCM). The video resolution for that that connection will be irrelevant. It can be 16x9 (if this is possible at all :D) as long as it comes with the flawless audio which matches the video (1080p) on the second port.
No problem at all. The video resolution of the audio port can be any.

renethx

02-13-09, 11:29 PM

Hello, this is my first time attempting to build my first HTPC or computer. I have read all the forum threads regarding exactly what I need regarding hardware for all my requirements. Thanks to Rene and all his useful setups on page 85 I was able to order all the parts for my HTPC. Now,I was wondering if someone can direct me to a forum or thread where directions are given on how to install the hardware. Such process as how hardware needs to be inserted . Also after all the hardware has been installed in the case, what is the procedure of installing drivers after the OS has been installed. I also read that BIOS will need an additional configuring, Can someone please help me out or direct me where I can get these answers.

I know this is such a newbie thing to ask but I am trying my best here, so please be nice.

Thanks
Computer-building resource thread (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=2072469&enterthread=y)

renethx

02-13-09, 11:47 PM

renethx

02-13-09, 11:59 PM

renethx

02-14-09, 12:04 AM

Cochese9266

02-14-09, 01:11 AM

I am 100% percent new to this and looking to build htpc for a new project. Reading the information on here has piqued my curiosity and I think I am ready to dive in:

Forgive me as I'm sure these may have been answered elsewhere in the forum, there's just so much information it's hard to get through it all.

The main question I have is this:
What mobo/gpu combo would I need to run only one hdmi cable (video & audio) to my onkyo 805? I read somewhere that two hdmi cables were needed (1 to tv, 1 to stereo).

I will not be using this for gaming, only watching tv/movies.

Thanks for any help.

renethx

02-14-09, 01:23 AM

fatchowmein

02-14-09, 06:33 AM

Goals
Video: Stream SD DVD, 1080P mkv, and a big maybe on streaming blu-ray/HD-DVD
Source of Video: Backend Windows Home Server
Watch and Record digital TV: ATSC and QAM (if it works)
24/7 Operation: Would like minimal power usage (if possible)
Audio: Would like multipath LPCM

Is this setup powerful enough to meet my goals?
Vista Ultimate 32bit (64 bit if I can get away with it)
Athlon 64 x2 5050e (I like the low power)
GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3HP mobo
SAPPHIRE 100253L Radeon HD 4650 (do I really need the 4670?)
4GB RAM
AVerMedia AVerTV Hybrid Volar Max
1 hard drive for the o/s (haven't decided which yet)
2x Terabyte drives mirrored for recording TV
PSU-undecided (prefer modular)
Standard DVD drive (already have a Blu-ray player and HD-DVD player in my rack)

I'm shoving all of the above in a P182 case (no room in AV rack, seriously).

Am I overtaxing the 5050e with the recording while watching another channel (wife's wish)?

Any feedback greatly appreciated,
Thx

renethx

02-14-09, 07:48 AM

ncarty97

02-14-09, 08:01 AM

Hello everyone! I'm about to take the HTPC plunge, but before I spend a bunch of money, I was hoping some of you more experienced posters wouldn't mind looking through what I'm planning and making sure I am not making any big mistakes!

I've read through the guide that renethx put together (and yes, I'll make a contribution once I am done, well worth the price of admission!) a few times and I think I have my build down. If this kind of post is a no-no, please let me know. I didn't see anything prohibiting it.

I figure it's a good idea to start with what I currently have in my Home Theater setup and parts I plan using in the build:

Home Theatre:
TV: Philips 43PF9630A/37B - 720p display (WXGA 1024x768p)
Audio: Yamaha RX-V1400 (no HDMI, but does have analog and optical SPDIF)
Remote: Harmony 880
DVR: Dish ViP622 (Local channels are received via OTA)

(Replacing XBox with XBMC, Tivo Series2, and Toshiba HD-A2)

Parts:
Memory: CORSAIR 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit (I picked this up at Microcenter originally for my gaming machine which has the same verison, but 2GB)
Mouse/Keyboard: Logitech Wave Cordless Desktop, bluetooth (I use this on my gaming machine. I figure that I generally won't need it for the HTPC, so I can get by with just pulling out the USB bluetooh connecter and then plugging it into the front of the HTPC for the rare cases I need it)
Optical Drive: LG GGC-H20L - Blu-ray/HD-DVD and DVD/CD burner (In my gaming machine now, but no need for HD discs in there, so will replace with a cheap DVD writer)
OS: Vista Premium (will patch with SP1)

Primary Goals:

1) Play Blu-ray, HD-DVD, DVD discs
2) Record and play OTA broadcasts (probably not too much of watching anything live)
3) Play downloaded video content
4) Play ripped DVD's
5) Watch online video (hulu, ABC.com, etc.)

Secondary Goals:
1) Play music collections (mostly mp3, nothing with DRM)
2) Archive video from Dish DVR
3) Transcode OTA captures and captured DVR video for play on Archos 605 primarily, but also some shows for a Zune
4) Slight possibility of ripping HD-DVD/Blu-ray and encoding for play on the Archos or Zune, but probably very, very infrequent

Things I won't be doing or doing very rarely:
1) Pretty much any gaming, at least not anything released in the past 4 years or so.
2) Web browsing (outside of online video)
3) E-mail, MS Office, etc.

Essentially, this is only a media recorder and player for me.

Here is the build I am considering, based primarily on the recommended low-end MicroATX Intel/NVIDIA build, using the parts I listed above as well:

Case: Antec NSK1380 Black/ Silver Steel MicroATX Cube (I like the size and that it still has room for four expansion slots if I need them) $120
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H (HDMI connection is key for me) $130
CPU: Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale $73
HD: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 32MB (Always been a fan of Western Digital as I've had good customer service experience with them) $100
Video Capture: Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner (Considering the single tuner solution to save a little cash) $110
Secondary Video Capture: Hauppauge HD PVR High Definition Personal Video Recorder (Probably a later addition) $210

I considered originally going with the R-5000-HD solution to get the video from my DVR to my HTPC, but it seems for the price, it's an imperfect solution given the potential scheduling conflicts and issues with only recording MPEG-4 shows as they are recorded, no extraction. I figure that I'll add the Hauppauge HD PVR later and really use it solely to capture video off the DVR that we decide to keep later (likely would set the show to run and the HD PVR to capture while we sleep).

The HTPC will be networked (hard line as it will be sitting right under my router), so my gaming rig can take some of the encoding work if need be (E8400, 2 GB, 750GB HD, eVGA 8800 GTS 512MB).

So a couple questions I have:

1) Will I see any difference with 4GB vs 2GB? If not, I'll swap out the chips in my gaming rig
2) I don't know a lot about audio, so I don't know if I need a sound card that can handle the Dolby True-HD/DTS-HD. My prefence is to use the onboard sound to keep it simple and keep the price down. I'm currently playing HD-DVD's/DVD's on a Toshiba HD-A2, which appears to have support for those formats, but not sure my reciever (connected via optical cable) is making use of them anyway!
3) I don't have an unlimited budget, but I do have some wiggle room, so if I were going to upgrade any area, where would I get the most bang for my buck?
4) I'm going to need an some type of IR for the Harmony to connect to. I see three options: Buy a case with one built in, buy the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 package that comes with one (and a remote, but not sure if this would control everything or just the Hauppauge applications), or buy a stand alone one (but can't seem to find one)? What is the best course?
5) The guide has two settings for Blu-Ray playback, 60 hz and 24 hz, it would seem based on my TV (and that I'll be displaying at 720p) that 60hz is going to be what I am capable of seeing and not to worry about 24hz, correct?

I haven't figured out which software package I'm going to use as the front-end, but I figured I'd start with the Vista Media Center and go from there.

Thanks for any suggestions. Like I said, I just don't want to go down the wrong road!

fatchowmein

02-14-09, 08:24 AM

The ATX low-end AMD/AMD system at page 85 will be helpful to choose your components. A recommended TV tuner is HDHomeRun (dual digital ATSC/QAM). 5050e/4650 should be good.

Actually, I pulled my parts list from your page 85. What was unclear to me was how well the 5050e would perform when having to stream and record so I wasn't sure if I needed to sacrifice energy savings for performance.

Thx for a great thread and taking the time to answer the endless questions. :D

That HDHomeRun is tempting..

renethx

02-14-09, 08:42 AM

Actually, I pulled my parts list from your page 85. What was unclear to me was how well the 5050e would perform when having to stream and record so I wasn't sure if I needed to sacrifice energy savings for performance.
Recording takes little CPU time. 5050e should be enough.

renethx

02-14-09, 09:19 AM

So a couple questions I have:

1) Will I see any difference with 4GB vs 2GB? If not, I'll swap out the chips in my gaming rig
2) I don't know a lot about audio, so I don't know if I need a sound card that can handle the Dolby True-HD/DTS-HD. My prefence is to use the onboard sound to keep it simple and keep the price down. I'm currently playing HD-DVD's/DVD's on a Toshiba HD-A2, which appears to have support for those formats, but not sure my reciever (connected via optical cable) is making use of them anyway!
3) I don't have an unlimited budget, but I do have some wiggle room, so if I were going to upgrade any area, where would I get the most bang for my buck?
4) I'm going to need an some type of IR for the Harmony to connect to. I see three options: Buy a case with one built in, buy the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 package that comes with one (and a remote, but not sure if this would control everything or just the Hauppauge applications), or buy a stand alone one (but can't seem to find one)? What is the best course?
5) The guide has two settings for Blu-Ray playback, 60 hz and 24 hz, it would seem based on my TV (and that I'll be displaying at 720p) that 60hz is going to be what I am capable of seeing and not to worry about 24hz, correct?

I haven't figured out which software package I'm going to use as the front-end, but I figured I'd start with the Vista Media Center and go from there.
1) No.
2) As your receiver does not support HDMI, the only way to get HD audio codecs in full quality is use analog from ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3 (or the upcoming Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD). If you use S/PDIF (supports only stereo LPCM, DD 5.1 and DTS), these HD audio codecs are recompressed to DD or DTS and sent to the receiver, where some quality loss occurs. Of course it's up to you if S/PDIF is fine or not. Remember that if you choose one of these sound card, you will use up all the PCI Express slots so that you can't add a discrete graphics card later should you decide to add it.
3) I don't know.
4) The IR receiver that comes with HVR-2250 should work with Harmony fine.
5) If your TV does not support 24p, just forget about it.
6) Yup, start with Windows Media Center.

ncarty97

02-14-09, 02:15 PM

Awesome! Thanks!

SmokeHacker

02-14-09, 02:43 PM

Before I even start I want to say thanks to renethx as the information provided in this thread, especially page 85, is extremely helpful.

Now, I'm looking to replace my Xbox running XBMC with a shiny new HTPC ( which I'll probably run XBMC on ). I will not be recording anything or doing any significant gaming ( perhaps run emulators or non-bleeding edge games occasionally ), all I really want is something that can play full HD content. Keeping this as cheap as possible, without compromising the base functionality I'm looking for, is one of my primary goals. In addition, I would like it to be relatively small and controlled by remote ( powered on by remote as well would be awesome ).

The Low End Intel/Nvidia sounds like it's exactly what I'm looking for, but I'm having problems deciding on a case as I want to avoid any external parts, like an IR receiver. I like the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350 as it has a built-in IR receiver and small size, but it is a little pricey and due to its size has less room for upgrades I may want in the future. The other recommended cases are good in the sense they have more space and cost less, but the lack of an IR receiver concerns me. I could get an IR receiver that fits in the 5.25" bay, but then I wouldn't have space for a DVD/Blu-Ray drive, and in the end the price may end up the same as just buying the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350.

I guess my question for everyone is: how would you solve this dilemma? Would it be smarter to simply get one of the other recommended cases and throw a 5.25" IR receiver in it ( like the SilverStone MFP51 ) even if the cost ends up the same as the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350? Just suck it up and deal with a cheaper, but external solution ( like the Streamzap PC Remote )? Some third idea that I haven't even thought of?

Dullie

02-14-09, 04:27 PM

Wickywik

02-14-09, 05:53 PM

Before I even start I want to say thanks to renethx as the information provided in this thread, especially page 85, is extremely helpful.

The Low End Intel/Nvidia sounds like it's exactly what I'm looking for, but I'm having problems deciding on a case as I want to avoid any external parts, like an IR receiver. I like the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350 as it has a built-in IR receiver and small size, but it is a little pricey and due to its size has less room for upgrades I may want in the future. The other recommended cases are good in the sense they have more space and cost less, but the lack of an IR receiver concerns me. I could get an IR receiver that fits in the 5.25" bay, but then I wouldn't have space for a DVD/Blu-Ray drive, and in the end the price may end up the same as just buying the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350.

I guess my question for everyone is: how would you solve this dilemma? Would it be smarter to simply get one of the other recommended cases and throw a 5.25" IR receiver in it ( like the SilverStone MFP51 ) even if the cost ends up the same as the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350? Just suck it up and deal with a cheaper, but external solution ( like the Streamzap PC Remote )? Some third idea that I haven't even thought of?

My build is using the Antec NSK2480 which is the same as the Fusion Remote without the remote. If you have a Microcenter B&M nearby, you can find the case for $70 + tax. The response to the Fusion's display and remote seem to be pretty lukewarm from user reviews that I've read. Page 85 has some ideas for remotes. For around $30 you can add either an Antec IR receiver or get a Windows Media Center remote with IR receiver--both should allow you to power on your htpc.

As far as upgrades go, it's going to be hard to find a case like the NSK2480 that fits in an entertainment center and allows you to put two hard drives, two optical drives, full size power supply (if you want to replace it later), full size video and/or sound cards, a big heat sink/fan and two 120mm fans. The biggest limitation, I think, is going to be the limitations of the matx boards.

renethx

02-15-09, 12:24 AM

I'm looking to replace my Xbox running XBMC with a shiny new HTPC ( which I'll probably run XBMC on ). I will not be recording anything or doing any significant gaming ( perhaps run emulators or non-bleeding edge games occasionally ), all I really want is something that can play full HD content. Keeping this as cheap as possible, without compromising the base functionality I'm looking for, is one of my primary goals. In addition, I would like it to be relatively small and controlled by remote ( powered on by remote as well would be awesome ).

The Low End Intel/Nvidia sounds like it's exactly what I'm looking for, but I'm having problems deciding on a case as I want to avoid any external parts, like an IR receiver. I like the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350 as it has a built-in IR receiver and small size, but it is a little pricey and due to its size has less room for upgrades I may want in the future. The other recommended cases are good in the sense they have more space and cost less, but the lack of an IR receiver concerns me. I could get an IR receiver that fits in the 5.25" bay, but then I wouldn't have space for a DVD/Blu-Ray drive, and in the end the price may end up the same as just buying the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350.

I guess my question for everyone is: how would you solve this dilemma? Would it be smarter to simply get one of the other recommended cases and throw a 5.25" IR receiver in it ( like the SilverStone MFP51 ) even if the cost ends up the same as the Antec Micro Fusion Remote 350? Just suck it up and deal with a cheaper, but external solution ( like the Streamzap PC Remote )? Some third idea that I haven't even thought of?
Are you looking for a low-profile case or a full-height case? What kind of room for upgarges do you want, expansion cards or storage space? Another option of low-profile case is Lian-Li PC-C38 (http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=315&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=64) and PC-C39 (http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=316&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=64) (April?).

As not every case has a built-in IR receiver (in fact there are more cases without a receiver than cases with a recevier), a USB IR receiver (such as Microsoft's one) is popular.

renethx

02-15-09, 12:59 AM

I am opting for a Premuim system..

* Processor Intel Core i7 920
* Mobo GIGABYTE Ex58 UD5
* RAM Corsair XMS3 3x2GB (6GB) 1600MHz
* VGA nVidia 260 GTX (will change stock cooler to Arctic Cooling Accelero Extreme 280 GTX, to achieve minimum noise)
* HDD will be OZC SSD 60 GB (system files and program files) For storage I will use 2X1.5 TB WD
* Optical Drive LG Blu Ray -HDDVD 6XBD-R
* PSU Gigabyte 720 Watts
* Case Origen Ae S21T
* OS Windows Vista Ultimate 32 Bit

For HDMI Audio I will use spdif to the 260 GTX, until asus could get their act together and fix their Xonar HDAV.

What do you guys think..? Will the case fit an 11 inch VGA? And will it be noisy? I want power, and silence.. Could it be achieved with this configuration?

I know it is a very expensive system.. But I will use it for games/Blu Ray/Music/Encoding..
You will lose 3-4 HDD space in the right-hand side HDD cage. Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12714861#post12714861). The red shade is a 9" long 1-slot graphics card. GTX 260 is 10.5" and 2-slot. But I am not sure if the card fit the case. Obviously OrigenAE S series cases are designed for shorter graphics cards (8" or less). Perhaps the engineers had never thought of the use of 10.5" long cards in their cases.

SmokeHacker

02-15-09, 02:11 AM

Are you looking for a low-profile case or a full-height case? What kind of room for upgarges do you want, expansion cards or storage space? Another option of low-profile case is Lian-Li PC-C38 (http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=315&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=64) and PC-C39 (http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=316&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=64) (April?).

As not every case has a built-in IR receiver (in fact there are more cases without a receiver than cases with a recevier), a USB IR receiver (such as Microsoft's one) is popular.

I would prefer a low profile case and a built-in IR receiver, but I'm willing to abandon that idea if a better and cheaper solution is proposed. I don't need internal storage as I'll be streaming everything from my primary computer. I'm hoping to stick with the base Low End Intel/Nvidia build for as long as possible, so upgrades aren't very important either, but at the same time I do not want to completely rule them out in the future.

From everything I've read it appears I essentially have 3 choices:

The Antec NSK1480 and an external IR receiver.
The Antec NSK2480 and either an external IR receiver or internal 5.25" IR receiver.
The Lian Li PC-C38, which I'd have to wait for it to be released in April and probably spend more than the previous 2 possibilites
Other than the built-in IR receiver is there any reason to wait for the new Lian Li PC-C38 over just getting the Antec NSK1480? On top of that, is there any reason for me to choose the NSK2480 over the two low profile cases?

renethx

02-15-09, 02:21 AM

Other than the built-in IR receiver is there any reason to wait for the new Lian Li PC-C38 over just getting the Antec NSK1480? On top of that, is there any reason for me to choose the NSK2480 over the two low profile cases?
Maybe because PC-C38 is better looking and supports two full-height cards as well as four low-profile cards? It's completely up to you if you choose a low-profile case or a full-height case. Personally if the AV rack has enough height for a full-height case, I don't see any reason to choose a low-profile case.

Dullie

02-15-09, 09:28 AM

You will lose 3-4 HDD space in the right-hand side HDD cage. Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12714861#post12714861). The red shade is a 9" long 1-slot graphics card. GTX 260 is 10.5" and 2-slot. But I am not sure if the card fit the case. Obviously OrigenAE S series cases are designed for shorter graphics cards (8" or less). Perhaps the engineers had never thought of the use of 10.5" long cards in their cases.

I found out those pictures on the Origen Website..

http://www.origenae.co.kr/board/data/cheditor/0811/00020jhj.jpg

http://www.origenae.co.kr/board/data/cheditor/0811/00021jhj.jpg

The way I see it.. It could fit.. However, you are a much better judge than me..

Concerning storage.. I think 3 HDDs will suffice my needs for the time being..

Thanks for everything..

renethx

02-15-09, 10:21 AM

The red area is GTX 260 (10.5" = 267mm).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=133619&stc=1&d=1234710053

It looks like the card barely fits the case. Another possible problem is that there is a large supporting bar above the card that could block the card. The case height: 220mm, the card height: 110mm, so there may not be a clearance problem. (Did you find a vertical cross section view?)

Update

Never mind. These longer cards should fit the case. :)

TechPowerUp (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Origen_ae/S21T/5.html)

If you want to use something like a GeForce 8800 GTX or Radeon HD2900XT, you will be limited to five hard drives.

I assume this sentence was written on the premise that there is no clearance problem except for hard drives.

Dullie

02-15-09, 11:25 AM

This is a vertical Cross Section..

http://www.origenae.co.kr/board/data/cheditor/0811/00021jhj.jpg

I believe the maximum height is 120mm.. Will there be any clearance issues?

Regarding HDDs.. What do you say regarding the "Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB Hard Drive ST31500341AS - 7200RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA-3G"

I want 2 of those for a total of 3 TB.. Is it good enough.. or should I go for something better?

Appreciate your help..

soul4sale

02-15-09, 12:09 PM

I would like to thank you for all that I have learned from this forum... Realy great information! Now...

I am looking to build a low end AMD system, but NE is out of the GA-MA78GM-S2HP boards. Is the GA-MA78GM-US2H basicaly the same board? The specs look the same up to the point that it accepts more memory.

My other question is would I get any appreciable gain by increasing the memory from 2 x1 GB memory to 2 x 2 GB memory? Or would my XP MCE not recognize large memory?

Rocka2

02-15-09, 02:44 PM

Does anyone know if this memory G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ will work with this motherboard GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6 ?

hagro

02-15-09, 03:08 PM

First of all thanks a lot for this great post. I consider this post and its discussions the most helpful site when it comes to htpc building.
That said, after happily running a self-built MCE2005 for almost three years (analog TV, DVD only), I decided to build a new HD HTPC based on Vista Home Premium 32 bit and recent hardware for DVB-C, bluray, etc. half a year ago. A never ending story...

System setup:
CPU: AMD 4850e
MB: Asus M3A78 EM
RAM: 4 GB DDR2 800
GPU: ASUS EAH4670 512 / Gainward 4650 1024 MB
HDD: WD Caviar Green 750 GB
PSU: 500 W (ichbinleise)
OS: Vista Home Premium 32 bit
Case: Origenae S14V
Sound: temporarily ASUS HDAV 1.3 (returned)
TV: digitaleverywhere FloppyDTV C
A/V Receiver: Yamaha RXV3800
HDMI Splitter: Lindy
TV: Sony 40" D3500
Beamer: Sanyo PLV Z4

I chose a variation of the low end / mid AMD/AMD system, but have never been really happy with it. While TV and bluray picture quality is much better than with my old MCE2005, overall stability and WAF (woman acceptance factor) are a nightmare.

After some bad experiences with an early ASUS HDAV 1.3 that would not play bluray without bad jitter, the worst is actually the lack of HDMI compliance in AMD's 4670 and 4650 GPUs. I have spent days and weeks now trying to resolve the blank screen issue after waking vista from suspend, but nothing worked. For the woman acceptance factor I definitely need this resolved. Neither shutting down the ATI external event service nor custom monitor profiles with EDID override nor using MCE StandBy Tool with corresponding settings nor upgrading to Catalyst 9.1 fixed the issue. Whenever vista is waking from suspend and the TV and receiver were shut down in between, the screen remains blank while there does seem to be a signal. This is the case whether TV/AVR are turned on first or not.
Has anyone ever fixed this issue? What did make a difference for you? I did find a device from a German company (spatz) that would fix the issue, but this device itself costs 299 EUR, much more than many of the parts in my HTPC.

Alternatively, can someone suggest a CPU/MB/GPU combination that would allow HD and SD blayback and definitely does not expose this HDMI handshake issue that all ATI HD46XX seem to have after suspend? I would rather spend another 300 EUR on new hardware than on external devices to fix something that is caused by poor driver quality or hardware incompatibilities.

Almost ready to give up, so any recommendations would be highly appreciated!

renethx

02-15-09, 05:19 PM

Regarding HDDs.. What do you say regarding the "Seagate Barracuda 1.5TB Hard Drive ST31500341AS - 7200RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA-3G"

I want 2 of those for a total of 3 TB.. Is it good enough.. or should I go for something better?
Seagate is a good deal (if you don't mind updating firmware (http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?Tab=search&Hilite=&Module=selfservice&&TargetLanguage=selfservice&DocId=207931&NewLang=en) in case of a problem).

Wester Digital WD20EADS 2TB is soon available. But it's pricey at the initial release.

renethx

02-15-09, 05:26 PM

renethx

02-15-09, 05:43 PM

Alternatively, can someone suggest a CPU/MB/GPU combination that would allow HD and SD blayback and definitely does not expose this HDMI handshake issue that all ATI HD46XX seem to have after suspend?
Replacing HD 4670 with GeForce 9500 GT or higher could be a quick fix. Add Slim or X-Fi HomeTheater HD later for HDMI audio.

Rocka2

02-15-09, 07:15 PM

I have this memory G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ left over from my evga 780i motherboard that a friend wants to take off of my hands. I also am going to have my q9450 left over. I do not game, but I record HD heavily and am always editing my recordings. I would start over completely with an i7 processor and make one of the recommended systems from this guide, but right now I just cannot afford that and I do not want to waste the q9450. Since I store an extreme amount of high definition directly on my computer and it takes up every bit of my hard drive space I have I was looking at this motherboard GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6 as a replacement for the evga 780i because it has a lot of SATA ports I could make good use of. and I think I remember this motherboard formerly used in the recommendations on page 85. I think it was replaced with the new i7 stuff.. I do not know a lot about this stuff and am still learning and do not remember what memory was shown in the guiide with this motherboard (GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6). I am concerned about compatibility. Will my left over G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ work or do the job with the GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DQ6? Is there a better combination or a better choice to keep using my q9450 and have the ability to cheaply have more added storage capacity with good performance? I just thought I would ask and any help would be appreciated.

glyptodont

02-15-09, 07:19 PM

I had a similar issue. I was planning on ordering the Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3HP from newegg this afternoon only to find it's out of stock. I can't seem to tell if they're just out of stock or if it was discontinued, because it wasn't available on a couple other sites I checked. Does anyone have any guesses, or know if these just go out of stock from time to time?

This is my first build, and it really seemed like an ideal motherboard so i don't mind waiting a week or two if it's simply out of stock. Otherwise I'm open to any other suggestions for comparable cards in that price range.

Thanks, this messageboard and thread in particular have been the most helpful places i've found while trying to sort all of this out.

renethx

02-15-09, 07:23 PM

Rocka2

02-15-09, 07:33 PM

Thank you renethx.

renethx

02-15-09, 07:38 PM

metropole

02-15-09, 08:20 PM

Hi,

Is there any particular reason why like the Rosewill DAS enclousure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14239742#DAS) better than the SansDigital?

renethx

02-15-09, 08:25 PM

Hi,

Is there any particular reason why like the Rosewill DAS enclousure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14239742#DAS) better than the SansDigital?
No. When I accumulated information last time, SansDigital was not available (or maybe it escaped my attention).

truthd

02-15-09, 08:34 PM

Hello, mainly I think I need some help deciding on the right CPU for my HTPC build.

Little background first: HTPC with mainly be used to store movies, xvid copies of dvd's I own, and play some music. Also stream media from the net, netflix, hulu, tv replays from stations etc. I don't have any need at this time for Blueray or super high quality (I'm not very picky) but would like for some room for expansion in the future. Eventually I will probably upgrade to one of the recommend GPU's and TV Tuner cards to record OTA (I don't have cable). Power Consumption is important to me.

Here is what I have already:
HD -Hitachi 1 TB HD for storage
PSU -Corsair CMPSU-400CX 400W
RAM - 2 GB 1 x 2 stick of OCZ DDR 800
DVD Writer - Samsung or Lite On, or both

Here is what I choose to buy in addition:
MB - MSI K9N2GM-FIH GeForce 8200 mGPU microATX $60
Case - Antec Fusion Remote Black $155 -- I hope the LCD isn't as bad as some people say, and that the remote works...
Graphics - Use Integrated, maybe upgrade to suggested models in future. $0

CPU - ????
AMD 64 X2 5050e Brisbane 2.6 GHz 45W $60 OR
AMD 64 X2 5600+ Brisbane 2.9 GHz 65W $70 OR
AMD Phenom X3 8650 2.3 GHZ 95W ~$95

Notes: I want to keep total cost at or around $300. I don't really want to buy a Kuma 7750 since I don't plan to overclock and the extra expense of buying a heatsink seems to offset the cost of going to an X3. I could be swayed to switch to Intel if there is justification for it being a better choice (less power consumption and better performance?) 'and' someone could recommend a good board to go along with an e5200 ($73) that wouldn't bring the combo above $150.

Power consumption is important to me, and it almost seems like the 5050e is the best choice here, unless the the extra $35 spent on the Phenom simply blows the X2 out of the water. I do plan to do some DVD to xvid encoding occasionally.

Let me know what you think.

metropole

02-15-09, 08:40 PM

OK. I'm leaning towards the SansDigital. No particular reason other than SansDigital seems to be in the business of such devices. Where Rosewill seems to have other core strengths. Other than that the bundles seem rather identical (controller + case).

glyptodont

02-15-09, 10:43 PM

GA-MA780G-UD3H is another choice. The "U" version (Ultra Durable 3 Technology with copper cooled quality for lower working temperature) is a newer board, but otherwise these two are almost identical. Maybe the availability of each board depends on the region.

Thanks for the response. I was looking at the UD3H, but was hesitant because of the lack of an onboard videocard. I don't play games, but I'd like to have the option to set up a tv card and stream hd in the future. It sounded like the ds3hp would be able to do that on it's own, but I guess I would have to add a graphics card to handle that if I go with the UD3H?

rygy

02-15-09, 11:01 PM

renethx

02-15-09, 11:11 PM

renethx

02-15-09, 11:18 PM

Thanks for the response. I was looking at the UD3H, but was hesitant because of the lack of an onboard videocard. I don't play games, but I'd like to have the option to set up a tv card and stream hd in the future. It sounded like the ds3hp would be able to do that on it's own, but I guess I would have to add a graphics card to handle that if I go with the UD3H?
UD3H uses the same chipset (780G) as GA-MA78G-DS3HP and has VGA/DVI/HDMI ports.

jesseasi

02-15-09, 11:50 PM

- A quad-core is overkill for video playback. It's good for encoding, however. (Pixelation/stuttering is perhaps a player/codec problem.)
- If you mean bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio by "pass through any of the audio formats available today", then you need a HDMI sound card such as ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 or Auzentech X-Fi HomeTheater HD (March). Otherwise (i.e. decoding these audio formats in PC sending them as LPCM over HDMI), any system at page 85 is fine.
- SSD is silent. But a good normal HDD is quiet enough.

Renethx,

I am still working on what setup will be best for me. You mentioned that my Q6600 2.4 Quad Core CPU would be over kill and probably too hard to cool.

Which would you choose for a HTPC setup - both of these CPU's are here and available for me.

E7300 Core 2 Duo 2.66
or
Q6600 Quad Core 2.4

I am still in need of a micro ATX board with HDMI (or separate video card). Your suggestion would be appreciated.

Thanks!

renethx

02-16-09, 12:10 AM

Renethx,

I am still working on what setup will be best for me. You mentioned that my Q6600 2.4 Quad Core CPU would be over kill and probably too hard to cool.

Which would you choose for a HTPC setup - both of these CPU's are here and available for me.

E7300 Core 2 Duo 2.66
or
Q6600 Quad Core 2.4

I am still in need of a micro ATX board with HDMI (or separate video card). Your suggestion would be appreciated.
E7300, unless you do lots of encoding.

timdog1031

02-16-09, 01:17 AM

Been reading this for some time and I think I have put together a good list of hardware to work with! But wanted to get some input from everyone if possible?

MB : Asus m3a78-t Or MSI DKA790GX
Processor: AMD Phenom 9850 2.5GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Black
Ram: Crucial 2 x 2g ddr2 1066
HD: 2 WD 1tb drive set in raid 1
VIDC : MSI R4830-T2D1G OC Radeon HD 4830 1GB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
B ray drive: LITE-ON Black 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM
PSU: Sliverstone st70F 700W
CPU cooler: scythe
Case: Silverstone grandia gd01mx with Imon and remote
OS: Windows vista ultimate 32bit

Some questions that even when I read the post in this thread I still don't understand.

1. How do I run the video and sound via 1 HDMI. According to the website it is possible to push sound and video via DVI to HDMI. Will this deliver the lossless audio?
2. What is the best config for the Hard Drive setup I want the freedom to add HD when needed based on research I will always have to add them in pairs because of Raid one and the create redundancy.
3. Is this th ebest case for me? I am looking to have a case with IR and lots of drive space for upgrade but would take recomendations esspecially to save on cost?

any help will be greatly appreciated

rzeljko

02-16-09, 03:50 AM

renethx

02-16-09, 04:43 AM

1. How do I run the video and sound via 1 HDMI. According to the website it is possible to push sound and video via DVI to HDMI. Will this deliver the lossless audio?
2. What is the best config for the Hard Drive setup I want the freedom to add HD when needed based on research I will always have to add them in pairs because of Raid one and the create redundancy.
3. Is this th ebest case for me? I am looking to have a case with IR and lots of drive space for upgrade but would take recomendations esspecially to save on cost?

any help will be greatly appreciated
1. Use this adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999010). A generic DVI-HDMI adapter won't tramsmitt audio. Yes, LPCM is lossless.
2. Perhaps RAID 5 + backup is a better solution (remember that RAID is not a backup). AFAIK you can't add disks to the RAID array in SB750 later.
3. HD 4830 is a long card and blocks HDD space so that the maximum number of HDDs is reduced by 1-2. If you are not playing games, HD 4670 is a better choice (shorter and more storage space).

500-600W PSU is enough for this system.

allston232

02-16-09, 04:43 AM

I have question about MB, what should I take, which one is better in terms of silence and heating:
1.GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H or
2. some g31 or similar + palit 9500 gt silent ?
I have antec fusion remote black and thermalright hr-05/ifx and i want to build quiet but not warm system. I will use Intel 5200 or 5300 cpu and (i hope so) ninja mini passive cooler.
Second combination is about 20% cheaper. Oh, yes, I will use SB x-fi xtreme music in my system.

If you plan on playing some games, then I would go with (2) as this is more powerful. If you don't play games, want to keep power consumption and noise down, may be doing RAID 5 then I would go with (1). Based on what you said, then I would go with (1). But you can't go wrong with either one.

renethx

02-16-09, 04:57 AM

d60pdp

02-16-09, 08:52 AM

I'm planning on building my "Low-End" Home Media Server which can also act as a secondary HTPC when needed. To reduce noise/heat/load (since I already had a 650W PSU around), I think an 8-disk data RAID is adequate (?).

1. Parts on-hand:

PSU: Antec NeoPower 650W
CPU: Intel E5200 (w/stock cooler)
Memory: 2x2GB Kingston PC2-5300.
Misc.: a 500GB Samsung HDD (for OS) and a DVD drive.

2. Planned to get:

Case: Cooler Master Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP
Backplane: Athena Power BP-SAC3141B 4-in-3, 2 ea.
HBA: Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8, 1 ea. (8-disk RAID)

3. In question: Motherboard, OS, anything else to be added?

Any suggestion? Thanks for any help.

timdog1031

02-16-09, 09:14 AM

1. Use this adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814999010). A generic DVI-HDMI adapter won't tramsmitt audio. Yes, LPCM is lossless.
2. Perhaps RAID 5 + backup is a better solution (remember that RAID is not a backup). AFAIK you can't add disks to the RAID array in SB750 later.
3. HD 4830 is a long card and blocks HDD space so that the maximum number of HDDs is reduced by 1-2. If you are not playing games, HD 4670 is a better choice (shorter and more storage space).

500-600W PSU is enough for this system.

Thanks for the help!!

Okay now I seem to have a good list based on your changes this is what I am going with Chnaging out the PSU to a 500 W and going with the 4670 Card.

Still have some questions on HD. Sorry I just dont seem to get this raid stuff. My over all goal is to have 4TB of memeory. Based on that what would be my dest HD setup. I know these are config questions and not hardware but being able to install these correctly for optimum perfromance determins the HArdware config to purchase.

jackooze

02-16-09, 09:45 AM

Thanks Rene for all your help! I ordered everything on the bottom yesterday all thanks to you. I was just wondering can I turn this HTPC into a server were media can be downloaded from remote locations, such a feature that Windows Home Server has to offer. From what I understand Windows Home Server is an OS that gets installed on a server unit which works with PC's on a network which allows you to share the information.

My goal is to go to any location with a computer and access my HTPC with all my media and download the content. This way I can give permission to whomever to download my media that I have stored in my library. I am very interested in WHS but am not sure if it can be installed on existing OS (Vista Ultimate 64-bit) and work properly.

Do you have any advice for me as to how to go about this and find the solution I need, maybe there is other software rather than Window Home server. Do you think building a media server would be a better idea rather than combining them together.

Thanks

-Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core
-LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GH22NS30
-G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
-HIS Hightech H485QS1GP Radeon HD 4850 1GB 256-bit GDDR3
-Tuniq Tower 120 Universal CPU Cooler 120mm Cooling Fan
-GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX
-2 x 1 Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB
-ENERMAX MODU82+ EMD625AWT 625W ATX12V
-Antec Remote Fusion Max ATX

Stryker412

02-16-09, 09:47 AM

I need a recommendation on a case. I don't plan on putting the PC in our living room, and will mostly serve as a conversion/media storage PC. I need something that has expansion for more HDDs but right now I will have 4 HDDs (one for OS, and 3 in RAID 5). I've seen some cases that are $250+ but I don't need anything like that.

I also want a case without a window and crazy LEDs. Thanks.

chanakya

02-16-09, 10:47 AM

I am getting antec fusion black remote. Should I be using built in IR Receiver ( to be controlled by Harmony 880), or should I get vista MCE remote, with USB IR Reciever. Should I use the software supplied by Antec on the disk or should I get it from iMon website. Does the software play well with Arcsoft TMT, Vista Media Center...? Thanks all

Snorefingers

02-16-09, 10:58 AM

truthd

02-16-09, 11:36 AM

After keeping up-to-date with this thread and reading it thoroughly I put my order in for almost the exact same set-up that you have: MSI K9N2GM-FIH, 2x1GB PC6400 OCZ Gold and I added the AMD X2 7750 just because of the guide's suggestion. I was originally going to get the 4850e but when it was mentioned that for best quality, post processing, etc that the 4850e wouldn't have quite enough juice. The difference in price was about $20.

If you aren't concerned about quality as much as power consumption than the 4850e should be fine. I assume you aren't too concerned about post processing so without that enabled the 4850e should work just fine I think.

Thanks for the input. I'm decided on the 5050e (upgraded 4850e) since it seems to be a decent CPU and the power consumption is great, and your right I don't think I'm that concerned with post processing. Goodluck with your build. :)

renethx - Thanks for giving me some input. I think I'll probably just end up doing most of my encoding on my desktop anyway, so because of that I choose the lower power consumption (and cheaper price) of the 5050e. Thanks again for all the work you've put into the resources here, I'll make a donation to show my thanks.

Ronnie Ferrell

02-16-09, 12:16 PM

I'm not getting 100% smooth or tear-free playback with 720p or 1080p MKV files. The main issue I'm having is that the playback surges. As in the playback looks smooth but every 5 to 10 seconds the playback jerks forward to catch up. The jerk forward is a smooth jerk and does not look like dropped frames and MPC-HC does not show any dropped frames. It looks more like I tapped a fast forward button for a fraction of a second.

My current 1 to 1.5 year old hardware is:

Motherboard: BioStar Nvidia 630a/7050 chipset
CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ 65W Windsor
GPU: Sapphire HD3470 passive
Memory: 2GB Crucial Balistix
OS: XP
Player: the latest version of MPC-HC

I know DXVA is working because while playing back my test files, the cpu usage is less than 10%. But I'm not sure what codec is being used. I'm sure I have several different codecs installed at this point.

My question is, if I want 100% smooth playback of 720p and 1080p MKV files, should I:

1) Keep my current hardware and do a clean install because the hardware is capable of 100% smooth playback of 720p and 1080p MKV files using XP and MPC-HC.

2) Keep my current hardware, toss XP and upgrade to Vista.

3) Keep my current hardware but replace the HD3470 with a newer HD4550 video card.

3) Upgrade to a GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H with an E5200 cpu.

I do not mind doing a clean install but do not want to waste the time if my hardware is not up to snuff. And I do not mind upgrading but if my current hardware IS up to snuff, I'd rather not waste the money.

Thanks,

Ronnie Ferrell

nickbrown24

02-16-09, 01:45 PM

Wickywik

02-16-09, 02:23 PM

Quick question, can I do this, heat and airflow wise? Or do I have to worry about the thing suddenly bursting into flames if I keep it like this?

http://i43.tinypic.com/2yvp9xd.jpg

A little less than 1 inch, around 2cm, space at the top.

I wish I had as much space as you do. I would think the open front, back and sides should be fine. I've got an open back but only 1/4" on the sides to play with. I just can't justify buying a different tv stand. The last side fan on mine sort of hangs out of the back so I'll really be depending on that to bring in cool air. Hopefully I won't create a wind tunnel "whoosh" in the process. I've also got glass in the front which isn't going to help things much. Guess that all pretty much makes my decision for the lowest heat producing hardware that I can find.

Wickywik

02-16-09, 02:35 PM

For the best 3D performance without a discrete card, choose GA-MA78GPM-DS2H+X2 7750 or Phenom. 7750/Phenom is not so green (20W more than 5050e at idle and video playback), though. But you can buy HD 4550 with +$12 (more powerful in video playback and 3D and greener).

Thanks for the feedback, Rene, along with the 2/15 updates on p. 85. I found an interesting review comparing the 7750 and 5050e here (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/850/1/) that would be helpful for anyone trying to decide between the two. I think I'll go with the 5050e with the GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP mb which is of course oos today at newegg. As much as I want to be able to do gaming with it, it will have an Xbox 360 sitting on top of it--there's just times when I really want to be able to game with a keyboard/mouse. I'll look at picking up a quiet, discrete and hopefully inexpensive graphics card to do some of the heavy lifting.

Yorkergizer

02-16-09, 03:20 PM

I'm not getting 100% smooth or tear-free playback with 720p or 1080p MKV files. The main issue I'm having is that the playback surges. As in the playback looks smooth but every 5 to 10 seconds the playback jerks forward to catch up. The jerk forward is a smooth jerk and does not look like dropped frames and MPC-HC does not show any dropped frames. It looks more like I tapped a fast forward button for a fraction of a second.

My current 1 to 1.5 year old hardware is....
.
.
.

Thanks,

Ronnie Ferrell

Hi Ronnie,

It is possible that it is NOT your hardware, although I can't comment on that -- it could be a contributing factor.

Do you experience the same issue with Blu-rays?

I had a radeon 4830 + E7300, and was having the exact same problem playing MKVs (with MPC home theater). Hardware should not have been a problem. The skipping was exactly as you describe it -- a quick fast-forward of the video, with no noticeable effect in / affect on the audio. Makes it hard to google for a solution too...

The problem was ffdshow audio filter. My setup is DTS/DD passthrough (SPDIF optical out). It took lots of tweaking to disable ffdshow audio and get the correct filter working, but once I replaced ffdshow with AC3 filter, the skipping went away. I'm not sure what in ffdshow was causing it.

So before replacing hardware, maybe try tweaking your audio filters first. Unless you want an excuse to upgrade, of course ;)

Ronnie Ferrell

02-16-09, 05:30 PM

Hi Ronnie,

It is possible that it is NOT your hardware, although I can't comment on that -- it could be a contributing factor.

Do you experience the same issue with Blu-rays?

I had a radeon 4830 + E7300, and was having the exact same problem playing MKVs (with MPC home theater). Hardware should not have been a problem. The skipping was exactly as you describe it -- a quick fast-forward of the video, with no noticeable effect in / affect on the audio. Makes it hard to google for a solution too...

The problem was ffdshow audio filter. My setup is DTS/DD passthrough (SPDIF optical out). It took lots of tweaking to disable ffdshow audio and get the correct filter working, but once I replaced ffdshow with AC3 filter, the skipping went away. I'm not sure what in ffdshow was causing it.

So before replacing hardware, maybe try tweaking your audio filters first. Unless you want an excuse to upgrade, of course ;)

It's nice to at least know I'm not the only one that's had this issue! ;) I never thought about looking at the audio filters. I have the exact same audio setup DTS/DD passthrough (SPDIF out) to my receiver. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll play around with it tonight.

Ronnie

renethx

02-16-09, 06:21 PM

In question: Motherboard, OS, anything else to be added?

Any suggestion? Thanks for any help.
"A secondary HTPC" means that OS should be Vista or XP. MB: GA-EP43-UD3L, Graphics card: Radeon HD 4550. AOC-SAT2-MV8 supports only software RAID, but Vista does not support it. If you go with (pseudo-)HW RAID, then a cheaper 8-port RAID controller card is ~$250 (HightPoint RocketRAID 2320) and a mb with dual PCIe x8 slots is ~$115 (GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P).

renethx

02-16-09, 06:27 PM

Still have some questions on HD. Sorry I just dont seem to get this raid stuff. My over all goal is to have 4TB of memeory. Based on that what would be my dest HD setup. I know these are config questions and not hardware but being able to install these correctly for optimum perfromance determins the HArdware config to purchase.
Buy a WD6400AAKS (or whatever drive you like) for OS and five WD10EADS 1TB for data (in RAID 5 with SB750). You will have 4TB space for data. You will have to consider a good backup method.

renethx

02-16-09, 06:48 PM

Thanks Rene for all your help! I ordered everything on the bottom yesterday all thanks to you. I was just wondering can I turn this HTPC into a server were media can be downloaded from remote locations, such a feature that Windows Home Server has to offer. From what I understand Windows Home Server is an OS that gets installed on a server unit which works with PC's on a network which allows you to share the information.

My goal is to go to any location with a computer and access my HTPC with all my media and download the content. This way I can give permission to whomever to download my media that I have stored in my library. I am very interested in WHS but am not sure if it can be installed on existing OS (Vista Ultimate 64-bit) and work properly.
WHS is not good for HTPC. It's simply not designed for this purpose and there are too many limitations. Storage space is another problem (Fusion Remote Max supports only 4 HDDs). You can add an external HDD enclosure, though. You can share files under Vista of course. If you use lots of HDDs, building a media server is a good idea.

renethx

02-16-09, 06:50 PM

renethx

02-16-09, 07:18 PM

renethx

02-16-09, 07:20 PM

Quick question, can I do this, heat and airflow wise? Or do I have to worry about the thing suddenly bursting into flames if I keep it like this?

A little less than 1 inch, around 2cm, space at the top.
Should not overheat. Always run SpeedFan and monitor CPU/GPU/System temperatures.

renethx

02-16-09, 07:37 PM

Rene,

Very happy with my i7 920 system and the VF-900 is silent.
However i've got the silence bug and wondered what fans would fit on the processor.
However with the case being only 170mm in hight most of the current offered fans seem to be bigger.
Are there any low profile fans around for i7s?

Nick
- Cooler Master Geminii S (RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP) with LGA1366 Socket Retention Bracket Set (RR-ACC-1366-GP)
- Noctua NH-C12P with LGA1366 Mounting-Kit (free of charge (http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=23&lng=en&set=1))

d60pdp

02-16-09, 08:27 PM

"A secondary HTPC" means that OS should be Vista or XP. MB: GA-EP43-UD3L, Graphics card: Radeon HD 4550. AOC-SAT2-MV8 supports only software RAID, but Vista does not support it. If you go with (pseudo-)HW RAID, then a cheaper 8-port RAID controller card is ~$250 (HightPoint RocketRAID 2320) and a mb with dual PCIe x8 slots is ~$115 (GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P).

Thanks, renethx.
That might exclude the HT inclusion. What (MB, OS, ... currently available) if it is only a media server?

Scooterhog

02-16-09, 08:40 PM

My goal is to go to any location with a computer and access my HTPC with all my media and download the content. This way I can give permission to whomever to download my media that I have stored in my library. I am very interested in WHS but am not sure if it can be installed on existing OS (Vista Ultimate 64-bit) and work properly.

I currently do this with a Linksys NAS.

jackooze

02-16-09, 08:53 PM

WHS is not good for HTPC. It's simply not designed for this purpose and there are too many limitations. Storage space is another problem (Fusion Remote Max supports only 4 HDDs). You can add an external HDD enclosure, though. You can share files under Vista of course. If you use lots of HDDs, building a media server is a good idea.

What program can I use to access the HTPC remotely and download the media content I have ?

Ronnie Ferrell

02-16-09, 09:35 PM

It's nice to at least know I'm not the only one that's had this issue! ;) I never thought about looking at the audio filters. I have the exact same audio setup DTS/DD passthrough (SPDIF out) to my receiver. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll play around with it tonight.

Ronnie

Yorkergizer, THANK YOU! THANKS YOU! THANK YOU!

You were spot on with what the issue was. Installing AC3Filter, disabling all of the internal Audio filters in MPC-HC and adding the external filters fixed my issue. I had a slight issue with AAC audio afterwards, but I disabled the internal AAC filter and installed COREAAC and I'm all fixed up!

Thanks again,

Ronnie Ferrell

renethx

02-16-09, 10:32 PM

Thanks, renethx.
That might exclude the HT inclusion. What (MB, OS, ... currently available) if it is only a media server?
Check page 85.

renethx

02-16-09, 10:34 PM

What program can I use to access the HTPC remotely and download the media content I have ?
How remotely do you want to access the HTPC (e.g. from anywhere on the Internet)?

Snorefingers

02-16-09, 11:27 PM

I can't speak for the other guy but I have the same question. I'd like to access the HTPC from my other computer which is in the same LAN/Workgroup, do you have any software recommendations for that?

Snorefingers

02-16-09, 11:30 PM

Also, when checking the CPU/GPU temperatures, what is the normal range? Around 50° C for the CPU under stress?

martijua

02-17-09, 07:21 AM

I can't speak for the other guy but I have the same question. I'd like to access the HTPC from my other computer which is in the same LAN/Workgroup, do you have any software recommendations for that?

I use Microsofts Windows 'Remote Desktop Connection'.
Works great and its free.

jackooze

02-17-09, 07:32 AM

How remotely do you want to access the HTPC (e.g. from anywhere on the Internet)?

Yes, I would like to have my library available that I can download files or movies from any location. Also so that my parents can access my movie folder todownload a movie from their apartment.

Thanks Rene

opentoideas

02-17-09, 07:32 AM

I use Microsofts Windows 'Remote Desktop Connection'.
Works great and its free.

+1 it is also simple to put computers to sleep from remote desktop and use WOL to bring them out of standby saving power.

simple solution that "just works"

Paths

02-17-09, 08:31 AM

I ordered myelf a new video card for my HTPC yesterday and was thinking about aftermarket passive cooling kits.

If I wanted to make the the stock cooler off and replace one, what thermal paste should I use? I read some can become conductive at high temps. I have used the artic products before, but have no clue as to what I should use if I decide to change the stock cooler or try modding it.

Thanks

chanakya

02-17-09, 09:27 AM

kalrith

02-17-09, 09:48 AM

I use Microsofts Windows 'Remote Desktop Connection'.
Works great and its free.

This works great unless you don't have remote desktop. Windows XP Home and Vista Home Premium, which many of us on here use, do not have remote desktop. Also, even if you have remote desktop on your HTPC and you're at a remote location with an OS that doesn't have remote desktop, you're still SOL.

What other options do people use for this?

dbone1026

02-17-09, 10:02 AM

This works great unless you don't have remote desktop. Windows XP Home and Vista Home Premium, which many of us on here use, do not have remote desktop. Also, even if you have remote desktop on your HTPC and you're at a remote location with an OS that doesn't have remote desktop, you're still SOL.

What other options do people use for this?

You can enable RDP in Vista Home Premium, just do a web search (http://www.unet.fi/fransblog/2007/08/30/enable-remote-desktop-connection-on-vista-home-premium/)

archibael

02-17-09, 11:49 AM

jim tressler

02-17-09, 12:07 PM

I use RAdmin. Works well for maintaining the pc, however I can not watch video files via the radmin interface. If I want to watch videos on another pc, I map the htpc drive onto the desired pc and play it that way. I have also used VNC in the past with no problems.

jim

This works great unless you don't have remote desktop. Windows XP Home and Vista Home Premium, which many of us on here use, do not have remote desktop. Also, even if you have remote desktop on your HTPC and you're at a remote location with an OS that doesn't have remote desktop, you're still SOL.

What other options do people use for this?

jim tressler

02-17-09, 12:10 PM

Is the problem DTS only? I had the exact same problem with DTS encoded material using spdif out. Using AC3filter fixed the problem..

It's nice to at least know I'm not the only one that's had this issue! ;) I never thought about looking at the audio filters. I have the exact same audio setup DTS/DD passthrough (SPDIF out) to my receiver. Thanks for the suggestion! I'll play around with it tonight.

Ronnie

Snorefingers

02-17-09, 12:29 PM

How do these temperatures look to you guys? I'm using the Low End mATX Intel/NVIDIA setup from page 85.

http://i42.tinypic.com/9i9ppc.gif

No idea what the hell is up with temp3. :confused:

EDIT: This shot was taking while watching a 1080p mkv btw., about one minute into the video.

Ronnie Ferrell

02-17-09, 12:45 PM

...Also, even if you have remote desktop on your HTPC and you're at a remote location with an OS that doesn't have remote desktop, you're still SOL.
rdesktop is a UNIX/LINUX/BSD command line remote desktop client. tsclient is a GUI for rdesktop if you hate the command line.

What other options do people use for this?

I use VNC over an SSH tunnel created with cygwin/openssh/ultravnc server on my XP based HTPC. (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/cert/openssh_rdp_vnc.pdf) I then use SSH and vncviewer from LINUX remotely or Putty and ultravnc client from Windows remotely to access my HTPC.

If you want easy secure VNC without jumping through all the hoops, and you only use Windows OS on both ends, you can stick with just using UltraVNC server/client and the AESV2Plugin.dsm plugin for secure VNC connections.

I like UltraVNC to UltraVNC connections because you can easily transfer files securely between the server and client.

Ronnie Ferrell

02-17-09, 12:56 PM

Is the problem DTS only? I had the exact same problem with DTS encoded material using spdif out. Using AC3filter fixed the problem..

Yes! Now that you mention it. All of my test files that "surged" during playback as if I were tapping the fast forward button had DTS encoded audio. MKV files with AAC encoded audio did not "surge." Installing and setting up AC3filter has fixed the problem for me as well and I have 100% smooth playback. But it did not fix the "I want to upgrade" bug. ;) So I think I'm going to get the new motherboard and CPU anyway.

Ronnie

graf1k

02-17-09, 01:21 PM

I'm looking to build a "as close to silent as possible", low power/heat, low profile (going with the PC-C-37/C39 case from Lian Li) HTPC and I have a couple quick questions.

I've been looking at an Intel E8400 for the processor but am wondering if a comparable AMD CPU would run cooler or hotter, or if I can't get away with something a little less powerful (My AMD X2 4400+ works well currently).

For playback of 1080p mkv/wmv files and Blu-Rays, what model GPU should I be looking for? Preferably something onboard (mini-ATX only) or at least a low profile card. I can't fit a full sized card in the case, or else I would stick with my 7800GTX which does the job flawlessly as is (mkv/wmv anyway).

Also, I'd like a Micro-ATX motherboard with HDMI out that can handle video and hopefully lossless audio output (or a low profile GPU if that is possible) as well. Currently I'm looking at the DFI LP JR GF9400-T2RS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813136064), but am open to other solutions (just figured the best available onboard video would be the safest bet for HD playback).

martijua

02-17-09, 02:07 PM

nitdawg

02-17-09, 02:19 PM

I am torn between the mini-ITX and micro-ATX. I do not have room for a micro-ATX case in my family room...14" depth won't work...that's why I've been awaiting the new MOBO for the mini-ITX system, which would fit just fine. However, I could go with a micro-ATX an put it in my media closet and run a 20' HDMI cable to my PDP...assuming I could get an RF remote to control the system.

The low-end works for me, I just DVD (maybe BR) playback and a TV-tuner card for a PVR.

I want to drop my time-warner rig and get to buildin'!

renethx

02-17-09, 05:17 PM

Yes, I would like to have my library available that I can download files or movies from any location. Also so that my parents can access my movie folder todownload a movie from their apartment.
As everybody says, try Remote Desktop. As your HTPC is running Vista Ultimate, you can enable it. A client can be any Windows PC. You need to obtain a static IP address or use dynamic DNS to access to the HTPC over the Internet (you don't need it to access from a computer within LAN, however). For details, read a tutorial found in most Vista books. For concurrent sessions, read this (http://www.missingremote.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1220&Itemid=224).

rygy

02-17-09, 05:22 PM

As everybody says, try Remote Desktop. As your HTPC is running Vista Ultimate, you can enable it. You need to obtain a static IP address or use dynamic DNS to access to the HTPC over the Intenet (you don't need it to access from a computer within LAN, however). For details, read a tutorial found in most Vista books.

Or you could try Windows Foldershare or Windows Live Sync. Live Sync incorporates a remote desktop application and is super easy to set up.

EDIT:
I just realized that Foldershare has become Live Sync. Check it out: https://sync.live.com/learnmore.aspx

chanakya

02-17-09, 05:29 PM

Remote Desktop

http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/QueryWS/GetOpenContent.aspx?assetID=dee66962-0399-4b21-b4ad-e489d550815a&DocumentSet=en-US&RenderKey=XML

your computer can run any version of vista, as long as host computer has vista ultimate you should be able to connect to it. From here (http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-us/help/f55326fa-e629-423b-abba-b30f76cc61e61033.mspx)You can also open Remote Desktop Connection by typing "mstsc" in the Search box on the Start menu.

renethx

02-17-09, 05:30 PM

renethx

02-17-09, 06:15 PM

Geminii II S Heat Sink Installation Question
I am using the gigabyte 9400 mobo on Antec fusion remote micro-atx case. What is the best way to orient the heatsink.. Where do we want to have the heat sink pipes face. Here is one that I found on bit-tech.net site

http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2007/05/cooler_master_geminii/install1s.jpg

Also will arctic silver 5 application instructions on dual core intels (http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5_intel_dual_wcap.pdf) work on core 2 duo e7400 processor.

This mobo has 4 pin cpu fan header. So to let speedfan control 40mm 3-pin fan for chipset cooling, should I buy 4-pin fan y adapter, and connect both cpu and chipset fans to the cpu-fan header?

To connect 2 120mm case fans to the 4-pin case fan header, I would need the same y-adapter.. Wonder if newegg carries these adapters. Also is it safe to connect two fans to one mobo header?

This problem arises when we try to connect multiple case fans to one header, to let speedfan control them..

Thanks All
The heatpipes should be oriented toward the rear panel.

Follow the instruction.

If you want to control all four fans (CPU, chipset, two case fans), buy two PWM Y cables (http://www.google.com/products?q=gelid+pwm+y+cable) (only one of the two connectors has a pin for rpm sensor), connect the CPU fan and the chipset fan to one of them, then connect to CPU_FAN; connect the case fans to the other then connect to SYS_FAN. As the stock case fans' connector is a 4-pin Molex, you will need two of this cable (http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=MIFAN43). If you select the PWM mode for CPU_FAN in BIOS, then perhaps the chipset fan runs at the full speed. You can select the voltage mode to control both the CPU and chipset fans. SYS_FAN is voltage control only despite the fourth pin (which is not a PWM pin, but a +5V pin).

A simpler way is connect the CPU fan to CPU_FAN, the chipset fan to SYS_FAN (you don't need an adapter), and the case fans to a 4-pin Molex female from the PSU (that means the case fans run at a fixed speed, ~800 rpm@Low).

renethx

02-17-09, 06:22 PM

How do these temperatures look to you guys? I'm using the Low End mATX Intel/NVIDIA setup from page 85.

No idea what the hell is up with temp3. :confused:
Pretty normal. Temp3 has no meaning. Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15194481#post15194481).

renethx

02-17-09, 06:33 PM

I'm looking to build a "as close to silent as possible", low power/heat, low profile (going with the PC-C-37/C39 case from Lian Li) HTPC and I have a couple quick questions.

...
There is no AMD equivalent to E8400 in terms of performance and power consumption. I recommend the microATX low-end Intel/NVIDIA system (you can change CPU, case).

Wickywik

02-17-09, 07:44 PM

My receiver doesn't have hdmi and only has one optical port which is being used by my Xbox 360. I do have coax available, though. If I get the GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2HP, which already has optical, is there a way to use the bracket adapter (RCA COMPOSITE VIDEO 2.5' - PANEL F TO 1X3 F) on p. 85 or should I look at a Optical Toslink to Coaxial (RCA) Digital Audio Converter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=2)?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
Would I be better off looking for a mb that doesn't have optical and just add the bracket since there are very few matx boards that have just coax?

renethx

02-17-09, 07:54 PM

ataxic_dentist

02-17-09, 07:57 PM

I am using this motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128342). I am streaming OTA recorded content from my server. In WMP, the dolby digital icon is displayed, but my receiver is receiving PCM 2.0 instead of the DD 5.1 mix contained in the stream. I am using the coax audio out from the mobo into my receiver (STR 720). I have tested both DD and DTS in the realtek panel and both work fine in the test phase. What do I need to do to enable 5.1 DD in the stream.

Any help would be appreciated!

AC3Filter installed

4850e
2gigs ram
GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2
Onboard video (740g) and audio (realtek)

Edit: and Vista 32bit Home Premium

Wickywik

02-17-09, 11:38 PM

The coaxial bracket at page 85 works. Yep, you can save money if you go with ASRock or BIOSTAR.

How about the GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2? It already has coax which I would assume would do 5.1 to the receiver. The extra money I would save could go towards a nicer 4xxx discrete video card which I was probably going to get for the GA-MA78GM-S2HP anyway. At some point in the distant future, I would upgrade my receiver to one that handles hdmi.

renethx

02-17-09, 11:46 PM

How about the GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2? It already has coax which I would assume would do 5.1 to the receiver. The extra money I would save could go towards a nicer 4xxx discrete video card which I was probably going to get for the GA-MA78GM-S2HP anyway. At some point in the distant future, I would upgrade my receiver to one that handles hdmi.
If you have no plan to use an AM2+/AM3 processor in future, this is another option.

Lostclusters

02-18-09, 09:06 AM

How do you all move from playing high def content (.mkv, HD rips, ...) to standard def content (.avi, SD rips, ...) to large screen TV's (1080p)? Is this just a desktop resolution change (1920x1080 - 1080p, and 800x600 - 480i/p)? Or is there some other way more wife/kid friendly? I am trying to keep the native resolution especially for the SD stuff as I want my A/V receiver to do the up converting/up scaling. I use a 4870 video card if that is important.

Also, has the lossless/HD audio issue been solved for playing HD rips and getting HD audio to output from the 4850/70 properly? And if so, does someone have a link to this handy? My A/V receiver has the necessary codecs to decode the audio.

Thanks in advance.

dbone1026

02-18-09, 09:12 AM

New line of HTPC cases by Thermaltake (no pricing info yet):

http://www.luxa2.com/collection-enclosure.html

Petey999

02-18-09, 09:13 AM

I'm finally ready to pull the trigger on purchasing my 1st HTPC but can someone just make sure please that I didn't miss anything? I have 2 primary reasons for going with an HTPC:
1. The primary reason for this is to be able to backup/play my DVD's (including Blu Ray)

2. I want to be able to stream the backed up DVD's to other TV's in my home (not a high priority but a nice to have).

I was going with the low end MicroATX AMD/AMD option (with the Lian Li C37B case), but is that the right choice for my 2 primary requirements (above)? Sorry, I forgot to mention that all of my TV's will support up to 1080p and can handle HDMI.

I'm guessing I'll have to install an 802.11n network adapter, that's not a problem, I just want to make sure I'm buying the right stuff. Thanks for your help!

Sorry, 1 last thing, any recommendation for a quiet power supply for the Lian Li case? I see a number of different options, just not sure which will give me the most quiet solution. thanks again

kalrith

02-18-09, 12:02 PM

rdesktop is a UNIX/LINUX/BSD command line remote desktop client. tsclient is a GUI for rdesktop if you hate the command line.

I use VNC over an SSH tunnel created with cygwin/openssh/ultravnc server on my XP based HTPC. (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/cert/openssh_rdp_vnc.pdf) I then use SSH and vncviewer from LINUX remotely or Putty and ultravnc client from Windows remotely to access my HTPC.

If you want easy secure VNC without jumping through all the hoops, and you only use Windows OS on both ends, you can stick with just using UltraVNC server/client and the AESV2Plugin.dsm plugin for secure VNC connections.

I like UltraVNC to UltraVNC connections because you can easily transfer files securely between the server and client.

Thanks a lot! That's exactly what I was looking for. At home I'll just access the files by sharing the media drive on the HTPC, but this will really come in handy when away from home with the wife's laptop. All computers have Windows XP Home, so remote desktop is not available. It sounds like UltraVNC should be fairly simple to set up since I'll just be using Windows.

eightbits

02-18-09, 12:15 PM

This is a great thread. Thanks to everyone!

jim tressler

02-18-09, 01:53 PM

You can bet thats going to be a few $$!

New line of HTPC cases by Thermaltake (no pricing info yet):

http://www.luxa2.com/collection-enclosure.html

nickbrown24

02-18-09, 04:21 PM

- Cooler Master Geminii S (RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP) with LGA1366 Socket Retention Bracket Set (RR-ACC-1366-GP)
- Noctua NH-C12P with LGA1366 Mounting-Kit (free of charge (http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=23&lng=en&set=1))

Many thanks

Nick

misterthang8124

02-18-09, 06:46 PM

Kaal

02-18-09, 07:26 PM

Has anyone downloaded Windows 7 Media Center by itself (not the whole Windows 7) for an upgrade to Vista? What were your impressions? Have I posted to the right thread?

ataxic_dentist

02-18-09, 08:36 PM

Davinleeds

02-18-09, 09:43 PM

Did you complete setup under playback devices?

F6Hawk

02-19-09, 08:11 AM

Ok, this thread is getting HUGE!! Might want to chop it off and start a new one for the new year. Wow.

My question is this... has there come to town yet a mobo that will pass HD audio & video out in one HDMI port? I have put off building my HTPC, waiting on this feature. Is it a realistic expectation?

I want the one cable solution that is working in the rest of my entertainment center (Sony 5500 Reciever, Sony Bravia FP, PS3, and DVD player). One remote (Harmony One), one cable between each device, I LOVE how clean it all is.

But if I am asking too much by asking for audio & video from HDMI in a HTPC, what is the next best audio solution? I have seen mobos with HDMI out, and assume they are passing video, so how best to get the audio to my reciever? My reciever is capable of just about any sort of HD audio, and I am not set on one particular format, just want good sound for my 6.1 Acoustimass system.

Thanks for any input!

P.S. FOrgot to mention I already have an Antec Fusion Black w/IR and an AMD 5200+ 64 X2 CPU (though that can be traded if needed to make the system better).

ataxic_dentist

02-19-09, 08:13 AM

Did you complete setup under playback devices?

Yes I did, thanks.

I now have DD 5.1 working under VMC but not WMP. This is good enough for me. Thanks for the help Davin :)

dbone1026

02-19-09, 08:16 AM

F6Hawk

02-19-09, 09:47 AM

Get a discrete card like the 4670 which will pass audio/video via HDMI. This is what i use to get the one cable solution.

Does this pass audio via a connection to internal S/PDIF? If not, how?

Thanks for the advice!

nitdawg

02-19-09, 11:29 AM

I am still looking for something that is not too deep...around 12". I didn't think I would find any microATX cases that would accommodate(thus waiting to build a miniITX system). However, I did find these two cases:

Antec NSK1380 Black = 7.9" x 13.2" x 10.6"
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129038

and SILVERSTONE SG03-B = 14.2'' x 7.9'' x 12.3'' (pushing my limit)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163085

Any other suggestions for a stubby microATX?

Thanks!!
NitDawg

sfisher64

02-19-09, 12:00 PM

I am eager to build my first HTPC/Media Server system, and I have read much of this thread (although not all -- very long thread!), but I still have a few questions.

I want to have a client-server system, where I store mostly Blu-Rays (but also probably a few DVDs, videos, and photos), and then be able to play those back from a number of HTPCs throughout the home -- thus, storage on the HTPC is of little to no interest, nor is gaming.

I am leaning toward an unRAID server rather than WHS because it seems foolish to have to duplicate all of these Blu-Rays to get fault tolerance, but I am not sure about a few things: (a) ideally I would like to be able to rip the DVDs and Blu-Rays right on the server, but that doesn't seem possible with unRAID -- is that true? If it is, is it possible to rip from one of the HTPCs and have the data stored on the server? (b) can I use myMovies, running on the HTPCs, in conjunction with an unRAID server? If not, what can I use to deliver a good user experience for navigating the media server from the HTPCs?

On the HTPC, I continue to be confused about the new high-def audio formats. I have a Denon 4306, which does not decode the latest audio formats, and so ideally the HTPC could do the decoding and just send those high res formats as LPCM, but I also don't want two different cables, one for audio and one for video. In my system, which has a front projector, running another HDMI cable to the projector would be very expensive. Are there any solutions on the market today that can do this? And if so, how do you tell for sure that you're actually getting, say, TrueHD? If not, and I need to upgrade my receiver, then it looks like I need one of the few sound cards in order to bitstream these formats. Which sound card would you recommend? I was also thinking of the low end Intel/NVIDIA HTPC for this setup. Is that sufficient?

Finally, I was thinking it would be a good idea to put the server on some kind of UPS -- any suggestions?

Thanks!
Steve

kalrith

02-19-09, 01:56 PM

I have a silent 4670 and was wondering what I should do for gaming. I have a 1920 x 1080 display and was wondering if the 4670 is enough for moderate gaming (NBA 2K9, 007, Burnout). Is there a better card that will still give me 0db for my HTPC or am I better off getting a second 4670 for crossfire?

I would say that the 4670 is the best silent video card right now, and for moderate gaming it will probably suffice (as long as you don't crank the settings up in current games). There are rumors that a 40nm 4830 will be released on March 1. This card should have greatly reduced power consumption and heat compared with the current 55nm 4830. If you do want better gaming performance but want to keep your card silent, then I'd recommend waiting for the 40nm 4830. I'd expect there to be silent variations, or you could make your own with a silent after-market heatsink.

Before buying a new card though, play some games on it and see if the performance is adequate. If it looks good to you, then there's no need to upgrade.

misterthang8124

02-19-09, 02:30 PM

I would say that the 4670 is the best silent video card right now, and for moderate gaming it will probably suffice (as long as you don't crank the settings up in current games). There are rumors that a 40nm 4830 will be released on March 1. This card should have greatly reduced power consumption and heat compared with the current 55nm 4830. If you do want better gaming performance but want to keep your card silent, then I'd recommend waiting for the 40nm 4830. I'd expect there to be silent variations, or you could make your own with a silent after-market heatsink.

Before buying a new card though, play some games on it and see if the performance is adequate. If it looks good to you, then there's no need to upgrade.

Thanks for the advice. I'm not a hard core gamer, no intense RPG stuff. I'll live with the 4670 for a while and see how that works. Thanks again.

renethx

02-19-09, 05:22 PM

renethx

02-19-09, 05:26 PM

amaniateas

02-19-09, 05:31 PM

renethx

02-19-09, 05:38 PM

Has anyone downloaded Windows 7 Media Center by itself (not the whole Windows 7) for an upgrade to Vista? What were your impressions? Have I posted to the right thread?
A right thead is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111291).

renethx

02-19-09, 05:44 PM

Does this pass audio via a connection to internal S/PDIF? If not, how?

Thanks for the advice!
Radeon HD 4xxx GPUs have a HD audio controller and support multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS over HDMI. GeForce GPUs support only S/PDIF pass-through. If you want bitstreaming HD audio codecs, you will need to choose an HDMI sound card (works with any graphics card).

Lostclusters

02-19-09, 06:00 PM

Usually upscaling to 1080p is done by the GPU, good or bad. Simply software players/GPUs are not designed to output 480i.

Which issue are you referring to? Downsampling by commercial players is still present. But if you convert HD audio codecs to FLAC, you will get full resolution audio.

All issues to include downsampling. I am going to put my HD HTPC online this weekend w/a 4870 for video/audio. I know there were issues with the HD audio and thought I would ask for the solutions ahead of time and have them handy. Is it possible to FLAC the audio of a HD/BluRay rip and keep it a rip or do you have to .mkv the whole works? I am betting on the latter.

renethx

02-19-09, 06:27 PM

I am leaning toward an unRAID server rather than WHS because it seems foolish to have to duplicate all of these Blu-Rays to get fault tolerance, but I am not sure about a few things: (a) ideally I would like to be able to rip the DVDs and Blu-Rays right on the server, but that doesn't seem possible with unRAID -- is that true? If it is, is it possible to rip from one of the HTPCs and have the data stored on the server? (b) can I use myMovies, running on the HTPCs, in conjunction with an unRAID server? If not, what can I use to deliver a good user experience for navigating the media server from the HTPCs?

On the HTPC, I continue to be confused about the new high-def audio formats. I have a Denon 4306, which does not decode the latest audio formats, and so ideally the HTPC could do the decoding and just send those high res formats as LPCM, but I also don't want two different cables, one for audio and one for video. In my system, which has a front projector, running another HDMI cable to the projector would be very expensive. Are there any solutions on the market today that can do this? And if so, how do you tell for sure that you're actually getting, say, TrueHD? If not, and I need to upgrade my receiver, then it looks like I need one of the few sound cards in order to bitstream these formats. Which sound card would you recommend? I was also thinking of the low end Intel/NVIDIA HTPC for this setup. Is that sufficient?
You have to rip BD movies in a Windows PC, but you can store them to an unRAID server directly. My Movies works with unRAID fine.

Every system including the low end Intel/NVIDIA at page 85 can send video/audio (multichannel LPCM) over one HDMI (with a few exceptions). Check the feature tables. HD audio codecs (e.g. TrueHD) are decoded into PCM in PC. If you want HD audio codec bitstreams, you will need a new receiver (as the receiver has to decode HD audio codecs to PCM) and an HDMI sound card (video from GPU to the sound card via a HDMI cable, and then video/audio from the sound card to the receiver via a HDMI cable).

renethx

02-19-09, 06:51 PM

Greeting folks, i am new to this thread and i have an issue you might be able to help me with. I am currently moving to a new house (2 stories+basement) and i am thinking of creating a home - wireless - network including an htpc. Although the idea intrigues me, i am completely lost right now. Should i also setup a home server? Will the wireless internet/LAN work efficiently in this case?

More specifically, i was thinking of having a pc, set up as server, constantly online (ADSL) an htpc and a gaming pc. Should i avoid having both an htpc and a server by having the htpc working as one or will i have problems with BD playback? Note that all of them will be in a WiFi LAN scattered through 2-3 stories... I would like some opinions please so i can focus my thoughts!
If you are going to rip BD movies, then you will need a large storage space (20-40 GB per movie, so a 1TB HDD can only have 50 movies at most). You can build a HTPC that stores all the movies, but considering a large number of HDDs (causing heat and noise), you may want to build a media server and place it in another room, and stream contents to the HTPC. Wirless does not have enough bandwidth for streaming HD contents. You should go with wired LAN.

amaniateas

02-19-09, 07:08 PM

If you are going to rip BD movies, then you will need a large storage space (20-40 GB per movie, so a 1TB HDD can only have 50 movies at most). You can build a HTPC that stores all the movies, but considering a large number of HDDs (causing heat and noise), you may want to build a media server and place it in another room, and stream contents to the HTPC. Wirless does not have enough bandwidth for streaming HD contents. You should go with wired LAN.
The idea currently is just to play BD movies not rip them, as well as DivX and other formats. In this case is wireless sufficient if i also set up a media server and stream contents through it? Or do you think that a media server will be just a little too much and the htpc being constantly online and downloading will be enough for the purpose?

renethx

02-19-09, 07:14 PM

All issues to include downsampling. I am going to put my HD HTPC online this weekend w/a 4870 for video/audio. I know there were issues with the HD audio and thought I would ask for the solutions ahead of time and have them handy. Is it possible to FLAC the audio of a HD/BluRay rip and keep it a rip or do you have to .mkv the whole works? I am betting on the latter.
FLAC only on the mkv container. Perhaps you'd better go with a HDMI sound card.

renethx

02-19-09, 07:18 PM

The idea currently is just to play BD movies not rip them, as well as DivX and other formats. In this case is wireless sufficient if i also set up a media server and stream contents through it? Or do you think that a media server will be just a little too much and the htpc being constantly online and downloading will be enough for the purpose?
Wireless is enough for 720p and SD contents. But just one HTPC may be enough for storing SD contents and playing them. A normal ATX case can have 4-6 HDDs. The largest HDD available today is 1.5TB (soon 2TB).

amaniateas

02-19-09, 07:39 PM

Wireless is enough for 720p and SD contents. But just one HTPC may be enough for storing SD contents and playing them. A normal ATX case can have 4-6 HDDs. The largest HDD available today is 1.5TB (soon 2TB).
I am sorry but being a newbie in the field of htpc i dont know what SD means :)

So if i understand correctly, you suggest in my case to have just an htpc and a gaming computer in a wifi lan.

I looked around for a week and i ended up in the following configuration for my future htpc. What do you think?

1) Case - Thermaltake Lanbox Lite (VF6000BNS) Antec 1480 would be fine but in Greece antec is too expensive

2) MoBo - Gigabyte GA-EG41MF-S2H The one you are suggesting was a bit high on my budget...

3) CPU - Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200

4) Ram - Kingston KVR800D2N6/2G DDR2 2GB PC6400 800MHZ x 2 This ram was actually the only DS 2Gb ram compatible with the MoBo

Also would i need any special software for my htpc in order to play media on the tv?

PS: Sorry for monopolizing the forum

renethx

02-19-09, 08:07 PM

I am sorry but being a newbie in the field of htpc i dont know what SD means :)

So if i understand correctly, you suggest in my case to have just an htpc and a gaming computer in a wifi lan.

I looked around for a week and i ended up in the following configuration for my future htpc. What do you think?

1) Case - Thermaltake Lanbox Lite (VF6000BNS) Antec 1480 would be fine but in Greece antec is too expensive

2) MoBo - Gigabyte GA-EG41MF-S2H The one you are suggesting was a bit high on my budget...

3) CPU - Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200

4) Ram - Kingston KVR800D2N6/2G DDR2 2GB PC6400 800MHZ x 2 This ram was actually the only DS 2Gb ram compatible with the MoBo
SD is "standard definition" (< 720p), as opposed to HD ("high definition" = 720p, 1080i and 1080p).

Intel G41 chipset is too weak for HD contents. You can't play BD movies. You'd better choose a G31 mb with a discrete graphics card, or go with the AMD platform (an AMD 780G or GeForce 8200/8300 mb).

Petey999

02-19-09, 08:37 PM

Backing up BD movies requires lots of storage space. Lian Li C37B supports only two HDDs. You may need to build a dedicated media server. Streaming video to other TV's requires extenders. In general wireless network does not have enough bandwidth for streaming HD contents (50Mb/s at least), say from a server to an HTPC. Theoretically 802.11n has enough bandwidth, but practically it looks like it is not reliable.

Thank you. I guess the only other question then would be, will the low end AMD/AMD be able to play BD movies without a problem or will i need to get a higher end machine (not that I'm looking to spend the money) to be able to get clear/crisp output.

risk1994

02-19-09, 08:41 PM

I purchased a gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2HP with 780g chipset and am getting lots of stuttering when attempting to play an h.264 .ts file.

Im wondering how to turn on HW acceleration on this mobo. Im playing the file using VLC, do I need to have powerdvd for this function? Or is it somewhere in the ATI software.

renethx

02-19-09, 08:43 PM

Thank you. I guess the only other question then would be, will the low end AMD/AMD be able to play BD movies without a problem or will i need to get a higher end machine (not that I'm looking to spend the money) to be able to get clear/crisp output.
Any low-end system is enough.

renethx

02-19-09, 08:45 PM

risk1994

02-19-09, 08:56 PM

That doesnt play it at all...Is there some function I need to turn on?

renethx

02-19-09, 09:04 PM

That doesnt play it at all...Is there some function I need to turn on?
Is "that" MPC-HC?

F6Hawk

02-19-09, 09:26 PM

Thanks, Rene. If I opt for bitstreaming audio codecs over DD/DTS (not sure why I would I don't even know the differences between them), and I get a HDMI sound card, how do I get the sound to the gfx card, so that I have one HDMI cable out to my reciever? Are the cards connected internally?

I was looking at HD 4850 & 4670 cards, but few seem to have HDMI out.

Thanks,
Hawk

Radeon HD 4xxx GPUs have a HD audio controller and support multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS over HDMI. GeForce GPUs support only S/PDIF pass-through. If you want bitstreaming HD audio codecs, you will need to choose an HDMI sound card (works with any graphics card).

risk1994

02-19-09, 09:30 PM

Is "that" MPC-HC?

Im using mplayerc.exe I downloaded from http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/ Is that right?

renethx

02-19-09, 09:40 PM

Thanks, Rene. If I opt for bitstreaming audio codecs over DD/DTS (not sure why I would I don't even know the differences between them), and I get a HDMI sound card, how do I get the sound to the gfx card, so that I have one HDMI cable out to my reciever? Are the cards connected internally?

I was looking at HD 4850 & 4670 cards, but few seem to have HDMI out.
Video signals from HD 4670 are sent to the sound card via a HDMI cable (or a DVI-HDMI cable) externally, then multiplexed with audio signals into HDMI signals inside the sound card, then sent to the recevier over a HDMI cable.

renethx

02-19-09, 10:54 PM

Im using mplayerc.exe I downloaded from http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/ Is that right?
Yes. H.264 ts files should work. Can't you play none of ts files?

risk1994

02-20-09, 12:50 AM

Yes. H.264 ts files should work. Can't you play none of ts files?

I only have one file. I get the error "cannot render file" although it does play in VLC (with stuttering) I thought there might be some switch I had to use for .ts or something.

renethx

02-20-09, 03:52 AM

I only have one file. I get the error "cannot render file" although it does play in VLC (with stuttering) I thought there might be some switch I had to use for .ts or something.
Anyway, it is the player/video decoder that calls DXVA API, which triggers GPU HW. If the video decoder does not support DXVA (like VLC media player), HW does not work. There is nothing you can do.

Evil Bill

02-20-09, 06:04 AM

I have been reading this thread on and off for a couple months and find it fascinating. I have been working on putting together an HTPC and have been distracted by other things.

Time to put it together now and wanted to ask whether or not it was worth using an already owned EVGA e-7150/630i Mobo is a drawback or not. It is brand new and was due as a replacement in another PC which got shelved for an ATX build.

I have 4 gigs of Corsair ram already for this build in hand as well.

Thanks for any comments.

F6Hawk

02-20-09, 07:21 AM

I don't see any sound cards listed on page 85 in any of your system recommendations. Were they all relying on on-board sound? What sound card(s) are you referring to?

Thanks

Video signals from HD 4670 are sent to the sound card via a HDMI cable (or a DVI-HDMI cable) externally, then multiplexed with audio signals into HDMI signals inside the sound card, then sent to the recevier over a HDMI cable.

renethx

02-20-09, 07:29 AM

I have been reading this thread on and off for a couple months and find it fascinating. I have been working on putting together an HTPC and have been distracted by other things.

Time to put it together now and wanted to ask whether or not it was worth using an already owned EVGA e-7150/630i Mobo is a drawback or not. It is brand new and was due as a replacement in another PC which got shelved for an ATX build.
The mb is fine if you add a discrete graphics card (GeForce 9500 GT or Radeon HD 4670 [supporting HDMI audio], for example).

renethx

02-20-09, 07:32 AM

I don't see any sound cards listed on page 85 in any of your system recommendations. Were they all relying on on-board sound? What sound card(s) are you referring to?
Sound card is purely optional. Check the "Peripheral Components and OS" section for reasons.

sfisher64

02-20-09, 10:18 AM

You have to rip BD movies in a Windows PC, but you can store them to an unRAID server directly. My Movies works with unRAID fine.

Every system including the low end Intel/NVIDIA at page 85 can send video/audio (multichannel LPCM) over one HDMI (with a few exceptions). Check the feature tables. HD audio codecs (e.g. TrueHD) are decoded into PCM in PC. If you want HD audio codec bitstreams, you will need a new receiver (as the receiver has to decode HD audio codecs to PCM) and an HDMI sound card (video from GPU to the sound card via a HDMI cable, and then video/audio from the sound card to the receiver via a HDMI cable).

Thanks for the quick response! You are truly providing a phenomenal service to the community. I do have a few quick follow-ups, and then I think I'm ready to start building!

1) Would you recommend a UPS for the unRAID server? If so, is there a particular brand/model you recommend?

2) Since I have to rip Blu-Rays on a Windows machine, is it fair to assume that I can do so from one of my HTPC clients, and then have the movie stored directly on the server?

3) More out of curiosity than anything: if the low end HTPCs will do everything I need (except gaming), why would anyone buy one of your recommended mid-range or high-end HTPCs? What would I get from those systems that I'm not getting from the low-end? I just want to make sure I'm not inadvertently making a mistake by going for the low-end.

Thanks for everything!!
Steve

dbone1026

02-20-09, 10:27 AM

Thanks for the quick response! You are truly providing a phenomenal service to the community. I do have a few quick follow-ups, and then I think I'm ready to start building!

1) Would you recommend a UPS for the unRAID server? If so, is there a particular brand/model you recommend?

2) Since I have to rip Blu-Rays on a Windows machine, is it fair to assume that I can do so from one of my HTPC clients, and then have the movie stored directly on the server?

3) More out of curiosity than anything: if the low end HTPCs will do everything I need (except gaming), why would anyone buy one of your recommended mid-range or high-end HTPCs? What would I get from those systems that I'm not getting from the low-end? I just want to make sure I'm not inadvertently making a mistake by going for the low-end.

Thanks for everything!!
Steve

I have an HP Mediasmart server where I save all my media files (currently 5TB worth of space). I rip my movies onto my PC and then just transfer the files over to the server for streaming.

Also, aside from gaming, the mid to high range HTPCs would be if you plan on doing any video encoding (convert from Blu Ray to mkv, etc...). You would not want to do this on the Low End HTPC

sfisher64

02-20-09, 11:16 AM

I have an HP Mediasmart server where I save all my media files (currently 5TB worth of space). I rip my movies onto my PC and then just transfer the files over to the server for streaming.

Also, aside from gaming, the mid to high range HTPCs would be if you plan on doing any video encoding (convert from Blu Ray to mkv, etc...). You would not want to do this on the Low End HTPC

Thanks!! What a great thread this is!

I have been trying to understand MKV, but am still puzzled as to why I would, say, want to convert from Blu-Ray to MKV. Any insight as to why I would do that?

dbone1026

02-20-09, 11:32 AM

Thanks!! What a great thread this is!

I have been trying to understand MKV, but am still puzzled as to why I would, say, want to convert from Blu-Ray to MKV. Any insight as to why I would do that?

I do it mainly for size. A typical Blu Ray rip can be from 20-40GB, whereas I can convert to an mkv at 8GB. I know the purists will say that it is no longer Blu Ray quality, but I have to be honest that the mkvs look pretty darn good. I know HDD prices have come down, but assuming a 25GB Blu Ray movie the difference on a 1TB drive would be 40 25GB movies vs 125 8GB mkvs

dbone1026

02-20-09, 11:36 AM

Finally, I was thinking it would be a good idea to put the server on some kind of UPS -- any suggestions?

Thanks!
Steve

Forgot to mention, I have this Cyberpower UPS set up for my HP Server:

http://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP1350AVRLCD-UPS-Intelligent-Guarantee/dp/B000OFXKFI/ref=pd_bbs_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1235147752&sr=8-3

mslide

02-20-09, 12:00 PM

I have been trying to understand MKV, but am still puzzled as to why I would, say, want to convert from Blu-Ray to MKV. Any insight as to why I would do that?

So you can play the movie in any direct-show capable movie player instead of only being limited to the official blu-ray players (Power DVD, TMT, etc). That's my main motivation. Others have different reasons.

Others also compress the video at the same time, but you don't have to. I just remove the unwanted stuff and leave the quality as is. There are also advantages on the audio side as well (convert to flac), but since I use spdif, they don't help me (and I'm not really qualified to comment on it).

Dalat

02-20-09, 02:10 PM

This thread is great, thans renethx!
I need to clear up something before I start ordering.

Originally Posted by renethx

Every system including the low end Intel/NVIDIA at page 85 can send video/audio (multichannel LPCM) over one HDMI (with a few exceptions). Check the feature tables. HD audio codecs (e.g. TrueHD) are decoded into PCM in PC. If you want HD audio codec bitstreams, you will need a new receiver (as the receiver has to decode HD audio codecs to PCM) and an HDMI sound card (video from GPU to the sound card via a HDMI cable, and then video/audio from the sound card to the receiver via a HDMI cable).
I assume this is how it works when you pop in a commercial BD movie disc in the drive, and it starts playing. What about when you play an iso file of BD movie? Does it still work as explained in the above paragraph? In other words, will I still get lossless audio?

Thanks!

renethx

02-20-09, 02:53 PM

Thanks for the quick response! You are truly providing a phenomenal service to the community. I do have a few quick follow-ups, and then I think I'm ready to start building!

1) Would you recommend a UPS for the unRAID server? If so, is there a particular brand/model you recommend?

2) Since I have to rip Blu-Rays on a Windows machine, is it fair to assume that I can do so from one of my HTPC clients, and then have the movie stored directly on the server?

3) More out of curiosity than anything: if the low end HTPCs will do everything I need (except gaming), why would anyone buy one of your recommended mid-range or high-end HTPCs? What would I get from those systems that I'm not getting from the low-end? I just want to make sure I'm not inadvertently making a mistake by going for the low-end.
1) Using a UPS is a good idea. Check this thread: UPS support yet? (http://lime-technology.com/forum/index.php?topic=1528.0) (the keyword is "apcupsd").

2) Yes.

3) A low-end machine is enough for most basic HTPC tasks. Playing games in a large screen is a nice idea; in this case a good discrete graphics card is necessary. Someone may want to do editing/encoding tasks in the HTPC and use a quad-core processor. Someone may use multiple TV tuners and choose a full ATX mb, etc. So you need to identify what kind of tasks you want to do in your HTPC and choose proper components.

boxterduke

02-20-09, 04:49 PM

My main PC has a 8800GT, towards the end of the year I hopefully will get a new PC and convert my current PC to an HTPC.

Would I stick with the 8800GT or change it to an ATI 4550 for example. If you suggest the ATI, is it better to get a 4600 or 4800 to be future proof so when I upgrade my home theater to HDMI I would be covered?
Very little gaming will be done and mostly will be movie playback.

Thanks

renethx

02-20-09, 05:33 PM

What about when you play an iso file of BD movie? Does it still work as explained in the above paragraph? In other words, will I still get lossless audio?
Yes, of course.

renethx

02-20-09, 05:40 PM

DallasKnox

02-20-09, 09:00 PM

Radeon HD 4xxx GPUs have a HD audio controller and support multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS over HDMI. GeForce GPUs support only S/PDIF pass-through. If you want bitstreaming HD audio codecs, you will need to choose an HDMI sound card (works with any graphics card).

ReneTHX,

Just to clarify, are you saying that in order to maintain the single cable configuration (No need for internal S/PDIF) that you must use either the Radeon 4xxx series cards or you must purchase a discrete Audio/Graphics card. I got a little confused....Sorry I'm new to all this.

I am looking at at low cost mother board with a Nvidia 8200 series chipset on it, it comes with HDMI onboard, will I have to use SPDIF for the audio. The board I am looking at using was a great deal because it had HDMI and I thought it would carry the audio and video from m computer together, if it wont I will have to rethink weather it's worth it or not.

Thanks for the Help
Dallas Knox

Here is the board I am looking at
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135085&Tpk=GF8200A

F6Hawk

02-20-09, 09:01 PM

I understand, but you mentioned passing HDMI sound & video via one cable in the posts I highlighted below. That is why I am trying to nail down a sound card that will do what you are suggesting below.

I guess my other option is to use the on-board sound via the mini stereo output jacks on the mobo. Are most people just adapting the mini stereo outs to RCA jacks? Need to get it to a connector my reciever can accept (HDMI, RCA, TOSLink, etc.)

Thanks

Video signals from HD 4670 are sent to the sound card via a HDMI cable (or a DVI-HDMI cable) externally, then multiplexed with audio signals into HDMI signals inside the sound card, then sent to the recevier over a HDMI cable.

I don't see any sound cards listed on page 85 in any of your system recommendations. Were they all relying on on-board sound? What sound card(s) are you referring to?

Sound card is purely optional. Check the "Peripheral Components and OS" section for reasons.

rotelmania

02-20-09, 09:13 PM

rene, if I get the HIS 4670 like you recommended do I need to buy a separate adapter to be able to get audio through HDMI? I saw that the card include a dvi-hdmi, but I am not sure if it will deliver audio through the adapter. thanks

audit13

02-20-09, 09:17 PM

I checked this page (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01324212&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3658015). The mb seems to be relatively new. Feature-wise it's comparable with ASUS P5E-VM HDMI (but the chipset is G33 without HDMI port). Yes, you should be able to use it for the next couple of years. If you choose GeForce 9500 GS or higher, you don't have to even upgrade the video card in future. Sound is the weakest part as usual. But don't buy a X-Fi card. A better sound card comes later (supporting HDMI audio).

I threw the following spare components together:

1) Asus P5K-VM with g33 chipset;
2) Sapphire Ati 4550 passive vc with on-board hdmi connection;
3) Intel e2140 @ 2.13 ghz;
4) 2 x 1gb ddr2 800 in dc mode
5) Samsung 160gb sata 7200 8mb cache boot drive;
6) Samsung 1 TB sata 7200 32mb cache data drive;
7) WinXP SP3 with all updated and Vista Home SP1 with all updates;
8) Totalmedia Theatre 2.1.629;
9) Samsung lnt4661f 1080p/24 monitor;
10) hdmi connections between vc and tv; and
11) LG ggc BD/HD-DVD reader/dvd writer.

With XP or Vista, a BD movie played from the optical drive or from the 1 TB hard drive @ 1080p/24 stutters at various times but it doesn't always happen during fast moving scenes.

By stutter, I mean the picture seems to freeze for a second or two while the audio continues uninterrupted.

Do I need a faster processor or better video card to solve my stutter problems? I'm tempted to spend the money and get the Asus P5N7A-VM but I'm afraid this won't play BD movies back without stuttering.

Any information and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

renethx

02-20-09, 09:18 PM

ReneTHX,

Just to clarify, are you saying that in order to maintain the single cable configuration (No need for internal S/PDIF) that you must use either the Radeon 4xxx series cards or you must purchase a discrete Audio/Graphics card. I got a little confused....Sorry I'm new to all this.
- Radeon HD 4xxx, GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400, Intel G45: one HDMI cable for video and audio. These GPUs have its own HD audio controller.
- GeForce other than the above: one HDMI cable for video and audio. But audio must be fed from the onboard audio codec via an internal S/PDIF cable because the GPU lacks a HD audio controller, and hence audio is limited to the S/PDIF quality.
- Any GPU + HDMI sound card: one HDMI cable (or a DVI-HDMI cable) from GPU to the sound card for video, and one HDMI cable from the sound card to AVR for video and audio. Needless to say, the sound card has a HD audio controller.

renethx

02-20-09, 09:39 PM

I understand, but you mentioned passing HDMI sound & video via one cable in the posts I highlighted below. That is why I am trying to nail down a sound card that will do what you are suggesting below.

I guess my other option is to use the on-board sound via the mini stereo output jacks on the mobo. Are most people just adapting the mini stereo outs to RCA jacks? Need to get it to a connector my reciever can accept (HDMI, RCA, TOSLink, etc.)
I am not sure what your question is (or all your questions were answered?). You may need to make it clear yourself what kind of audio you want from the HTPC and what wiring is acceptable for you:

- S/PDIF: stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (two cables for video and audio; any GPU+onboard audio codec)
- HDMI (one cable for video and audio)
--- multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS (Radeon HD 4xxx, GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 [all iGPUs], Intel G45)
--- stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (GeForce dGPU+onboard audio codec)
--- multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (any GPU+HDMI sound card)
- Analog (four cables for 8 ch)
--- from onboard audio codec (not recommended)
--- from a sound card

renethx

02-20-09, 09:53 PM

renethx

02-20-09, 10:28 PM

With XP or Vista, a BD movie played from the optical drive or from the 1 TB hard drive @ 1080p/24 stutters at various times but it doesn't always happen during fast moving scenes.

By stutter, I mean the picture seems to freeze for a second or two while the audio continues uninterrupted.

Do I need a faster processor or better video card to solve my stutter problems? I'm tempted to spend the money and get the Asus P5N7A-VM but I'm afraid this won't play BD movies back without stuttering.

Any information and suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks
It's not easy to identify the cause. CPU should be fine. What CPU usage do you see at BD playback? Did you select 23Hz (= 23.976Hz) refresh rate in CCC? You may want to try ReClock. TMT 2.1.6.129 could be a problem. Check the thread Arcsoft TotalMedia Theatre (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=981683&page=128)

Dalat

02-20-09, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by renethx
Radeon HD 4xxx GPUs have a HD audio controller and support multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS over HDMI. GeForce GPUs support only S/PDIF pass-through. If you want bitstreaming HD audio codecs, you will need to choose an HDMI sound card (works with any graphics card).

Isn't the Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 the ONLY choice on the market now for the underlined goal?

renethx

02-20-09, 11:42 PM

If you want bitstreaming HD audio codecs, you will need to choose an HDMI sound card (works with any graphics card).

Isn't the Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 the ONLY choice on the market now for the underlined goal?
Yes, it is. Soon follow X-Fi HomeTheater HD and Slim.

Lostclusters

02-21-09, 12:48 AM

FLAC only on the mkv container. Perhaps you'd better go with a HDMI sound card.

Which of the two get the nod?

renethx

02-21-09, 02:41 AM

Which of the two get the nod?
Xonar HDAV 1.3 Slim if you prefer TMT, X-Fi HT HD if you prefer PowerDVD.

F6Hawk

02-21-09, 06:26 AM

As for my string of posts, Rene, I was a tad confused because you made it sound like any sound card would work, but I didn't see one listed that had HDMI IN as well as OUT.

--- multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (any GPU+HDMI sound card)

I think Dalat answered that question with the Xonar HDAV card. I am not sure I want to spend $240 on a sound card, however, when a mid-to-high-end system doesn't require it to operate well. Seems like a bit much to spend just to have a single-HDMI cable option, even though I REALLY wanted that. Looks like it will have to be internal S/PDIF to the GFX card, then HDMI out of the GFX card to the AVR.

Below is a review of the card from Newegg:
Cons: Purchased Sound card for home theater PC to hear DTS HD and Dolby True HD. What is not advertised is, the necessary software does "NOT YET" support these current formats. (As of 25-Nov-08).

First, ASUS support web site promises an update of their proprietary player software "soon." BTW, you MUST use their player in order to get DD HD or DTS HD. PWRDVD did not work *at all* after I installed the ASUS driver software; no sound.

Second, multiple changes in two different programs must be made EVERY TIME you change audio formats. If you want to hear DTS HD, you must manually change settings in the driver software and in the player software. If you want DD HD, you have to change them back again. A big pain and just not worth it... IMHO.

renethx

02-21-09, 08:31 AM

As for my string of posts, Rene, I was a tad confused because you made it sound like any sound card would work
I think I always added "HDMI" before "sound card" to avoid confusion in every post, or every set of related posts. You need to understand that bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA is supported by only HDMI (1.3). Hence a sound card supporting it is only an HDMI sound card, and there is only one HDMI sound card in the world right now: ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3 (Deluxe).

Looks like it will have to be internal S/PDIF to the GFX card, then HDMI out of the GFX card to the AVR.
Which solution are you talking about? It's only a GeForce discrete graphics card that has an internal S/PDIF connector for S/PDIF pass-through over HDMI, and such a solution is naturally limited to only stereo LPCM, DD and DTS. Is there a reason to limit yourself to it?

audit13

02-21-09, 09:12 AM

F6Hawk

02-21-09, 09:23 AM

In one of our posts, you said HDMI video is sent out of the GFX card (such as HD 4670) into the sound card, multiplexed with audio, then HDMI out from the sound card to the AVR. But until Dalat pointed out the Xonar, I saw no sound cards that supported your idea of HDMI in AND out.

Well, in a perfect world, we would have HDMI 1.3 out of the mobo, handling audio & video. But it ain't here yet, so...

Cost-wise, I think a S/PDIF pass-thru is the next best solution if one wants only one HDMI cable out to AVR. Correct?

The Xonar HDAV sounds like it offers a better sound solution (assuming one can tell the difference between bitstreaming and DD/DTS. Also assuming one has a reciever that handles bitstreaming, shich I think my Sony 5500 does.) The only drawback I see is the added cost. Now I am looking at a micro ATX that requires both a sound card and a gfx card to get good quality out. Right now I don't need a tuner card, as cable sux here and I don't use it, but when I return to the States, I plan on having HD satellite or cable, so may want to add a nice tuner at that time. Most video cards being double-wides, I wonder if I will have enough room for all 3 cards, as typically the GFX card in the PCI-E 2.0 slot covers one PCI slot (not to mention that most mobos I see only have two PCI-E slots, and two PCI slots, so further limited here).

The only reason I am "limiting myself to it" is my lack of overall knowledge. To be quite honest, I know next to nothing about the different audio formats you mention here (LPCM, DD, DTS, bitstream), though I think I have them in the correct order as far as quality goes.

I want my system to be able to play SD videos (mostly AVI in my collection), HD that I am currently downloading, DVDs, and BD (I don't plan on ripping right now, though I may as I get more into it, and may build a server then for space). I want the system to stream smoothly, no stutters, no shakes, just perfect video & audio. And if I can stream to it from my other computers over wireless N(5GHz), even better, though I have my doubts about HD playback over wireless. (Dlink DIR-855 router is in the mail as I type this)

I'd put money on it that if I had two hours of your time to talk in person, you could teach me more about HD audio & video than I have learned in the last year. Thanks for all you do here!

I think I always added "HDMI" before "sound card" to avoid confusion in every post, or every set of related posts. You need to understand that bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA is supported by only HDMI (1.3). Hence a sound card supporting it is only an HDMI sound card, and there is only one HDMI sound card in the world right now: ASUS Xonar HDAV 1.3 (Deluxe).

Which solution are you talking about? It's only a GeForce discrete graphics card that has an internal S/PDIF connector for S/PDIF pass-through over HDMI, and such a solution is naturally limited to only stereo LPCM, DD and DTS. Is there a reason to limit yourself to it?

renethx

02-21-09, 10:22 AM

Cost-wise, I think a S/PDIF pass-thru is the next best solution if one wants only one HDMI cable out to AVR. Correct?

The Xonar HDAV sounds like it offers a better sound solution (assuming one can tell the difference between bitstreaming and DD/DTS. Also assuming one has a reciever that handles bitstreaming, shich I think my Sony 5500 does.) The only drawback I see is the added cost. Now I am looking at a micro ATX that requires both a sound card and a gfx card to get good quality out. Right now I don't need a tuner card, as cable sux here and I don't use it, but when I return to the States, I plan on having HD satellite or cable, so may want to add a nice tuner at that time. Most video cards being double-wides, I wonder if I will have enough room for all 3 cards, as typically the GFX card in the PCI-E 2.0 slot covers one PCI slot (not to mention that most mobos I see only have two PCI-E slots, and two PCI slots, so further limited here).

The only reason I am "limiting myself to it" is my lack of overall knowledge. To be quite honest, I know next to nothing about the different audio formats you mention here (LPCM, DD, DTS, bitstream), though I think I have them in the correct order as far as quality goes.

I want my system to be able to play SD videos (mostly AVI in my collection), HD that I am currently downloading, DVDs, and BD (I don't plan on ripping right now, though I may as I get more into it, and may build a server then for space). I want the system to stream smoothly, no stutters, no shakes, just perfect video & audio. And if I can stream to it from my other computers over wireless N(5GHz), even better, though I have my doubts about HD playback over wireless. (Dlink DIR-855 router is in the mail as I type this)
As I wrote in a previous post, the available digital audio solutions in PC today are:

- HDMI (one cable for video and audio)
--- Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (any GPU+HDMI sound card)
--- Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS (Radeon HD 4xxx [dGPU], GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 [iGPU], Intel G45 [iGPU])
--- Stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (GeForce dGPU+onboard audio codec; so-called S/PDIF pass-through)
- S/PDIF (optical or coaxial cable; audio only; you will need a separate cable for video)
--- Stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (any onboard audio codec)

The sound quality (a kind of) is decreasing in this order. Right now HDMI sound card is still pricey and it's more or less only for audiophiles. The second best solution Radeon HD 4xxx, GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400, Intel G45 is cheap, but you can still get lossless audio from BD movies and even in full quality if you play them wisely (i.e. avoid a commercial player). I chose components in my recommendations carefully so that every system supports this audio solution. The last two solutions are equivalent in qualtiy and you will get only lossy surround sounds (i.e. Dolby Digital and DTS). In particular the last solution (S/PDIF, optical or coaxial) is still very popluar because not everyone has a HDMI receiver. (Quite a few people use S/PDIF with a HDMI receiver because they believe "optical" cable is superior to copper HDMI cable. But this is completely wrong.)

There is no PC TV tuner for HD satellite. PC TV tuner for cable TV is limited to basic channels. If you want to record premium channels, you will need an analog HD capture device (Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212 is the only solution now). Please read the TV tuner section at page 1.

BTW what is the precise model number of "Sony 5500 receiver"? I googled, but I found only Marantz SR-5500, Onkyo HT-5500 and Harman Kardon AVR-5500 receivers. (There are Sony BD-5500A Blu-ray player and Sony SRW-5500 HDCAM, however.)

renethx

02-21-09, 10:32 AM

It's an three-day old news. For example, read

- DailyTech (http://www.dailytech.com/Intel+Sues+NVIDIA+Over+Chipset+Manufacturing/article14322.htm)
- X-bit labs (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mainboards/display/20090218072841_Intel_Wants_Court_to_Ban_Nvidia_from_Making_C hipsets_for_Latest_Processors.html)

NVIDIA says Intel is trying to slow the uptake of NVIDIA platforms

Intel and NVIDIA have had agreements in place that allow NVIDIA to build chipsets that support Intel processors. The two firms recently began licensing NVIDIA technology for use on Intel motherboards as well.

Today reports are coming in that Intel has filed a suit against NVIDIA alleging that the licensing agreement in effect does not allow NVIDIA to build chipsets for Intel processors with integrated memory controllers -- including the Nehalem CPUs.

According to Bit-Tech, Intel issued a statement saying, "Intel has filed suit against NVIDIA seeking a declaratory judgment over rights associated with two agreements between the companies. The suit seeks to have the court declare that NVIDIA is not licensed to produce chipsets that are compatible with any Intel processor that has integrated memory controller functionality, such as Intel’s Nehalem microprocessors and that NVIDIA has breached the agreement with Intel by falsely claiming that it is licensed. Intel has been in discussions with NVIDIA for more than a year attempting to resolve the matter but unfortunately we were unsuccessful. As a result Intel is asking the court to resolve this dispute."

NVIDIA feels confident that its license agreement does in fact allow it to build chipsets for Intel processors with integrated memory controllers. So confident in fact that according to NVIDIA it will not change its roadmap and will continue development of chipsets for the Intel processors in question and for future Intel processors.

NVIDIA points out that this license disagreement does not affect any of its currently shipping products and the graphics giant doesn't expect any impact to its current business regardless of the outcome.

NVIDIA has released an official statement saying, "NVIDIA believes that our bus license with Intel clearly enables us to build chipsets for Intel CPUs with integrated memory controllers. We are aggressively developing new products for Intel’s current front side bus (MCP79 and MCP89) and for Intel’s future bus, DMI."

NVIDIA maintains that the suit is nothing but an attempt by Intel to slow the adoption of NVIDIA platforms and protect a decaying CPU business where the CPU has become much less relevant compared to the GPU inside a PC.

NVIDIA wants to make a chipset for the upcoming Core i5 (Lynnfield) processor, with an integrated graphics. Intel's own chipset for Core i5 is P55, which has no IGP.

renethx

02-21-09, 10:34 AM

X-bit labs (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile/display/20090220145507_Nvidia_Still_Interested_in_Via_Technologies_P rocessors.html)

Nvidia Plans Via-Compatible Chipsets

Despite of claims regarding great interest in Intel Atom-based platforms, Nvidia Corp. is still interested to power netbooks based on central processing units designed by Via Technologies. Apparently, the company intends to unveil Via Nano-supporting core-logic and Ion platform in 2009.

Jen-Hsun Huang, president and chief executive officer of Nvidia, said in an interview with DigiTimes web-site that Nvidia would launch Ion platform that supports Via Technologies’ Nano microprocessors.

It is interesting to note that Nvidia and Via have already demonstrated a platform very similar to current GeForce 9400M (Ion Platform) in terms of capabilities – DirectX 10, DDR2/DDR3 memory controller and a rich set of other features. What Nvidia plans to introduce in 2009 is a mystery at the moment.

Nvidia and Via have been discussing partnership in the netbook market since early 2009, but back in November, 2008, Nvidia and Via decided to cancel the pact due to unknown reasons.

Via Technologies, which has failed to make its Nano processors in a little less than a year popular, is definitely interested in support of industry-known Nvidia. Meanwhile, it almost clear that Nvidia has not succeeded in becoming a vendor of high-end chipsets for Intel Atom processors.

Related posts:

- VIA Nano Processor (Isaiah) + NVIDIA MCP79 Chipset = Most Affordable Vista HD HTPC? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13622289#post13622289)
- VIA Nano Processor + NVIDIA MCP79 (Q1 2009) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14098465#post14098465)
- NVIDIA joins VIA in celebrating Nano CPU and Mini-ITX 2.0 launch (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14036972#post14036972)

F6Hawk

02-21-09, 10:56 AM

Sorry, Rene, it was a typo. I have the Sony STR DA5300 ES receiver... http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers/sony-str-da5300es/4505-6466_7-32552105.html?tag=box

Dalat

02-21-09, 02:08 PM

As I wrote in a previous post, the available digital audio solutions in PC today are:

- HDMI (one cable for video and audio)
--- Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (any GPU+HDMI sound card)
--- Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS (Radeon HD 4xxx [dGPU], GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 [iGPU], Intel G45 [iGPU])
--- Stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (GeForce dGPU+onboard audio codec; so-called S/PDIF pass-through)
- S/PDIF (optical or coaxial cable; audio only; you will need a separate cable for video)
--- Stereo LPCM, DD, DTS (any onboard audio codec)

By Multichannel LPCM, do you mean 6 RCA cables from the sound card to the AVR? Or can it be an HDMI cable from the sound card to the AVR, but the AVR's panel will display "PCM" instead of "TrueHD/DTS-MA"?

saxnix

02-21-09, 03:49 PM

The latter - sort of..... In the first example;
--- Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (any GPU+HDMI sound card), it is a hdmi cable from the sound card to the AVR and this WILL give you "TrueHD/DTS-MA" on the AVR's panel.

In the second example,
--- Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS (Radeon HD 4xxx [dGPU], GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400 [iGPU], Intel G45 [iGPU]), it is a hdmi cable from the MB/Graphics card (Radeon HD 4xxx, GeForce 8200/8300/9300/9400), to the AVR and this WILL NOT give you "TrueHD/DTS-MA" on the AVR's panel, just "PCM".

I hope I have this right. If not I am still confused :D

rhinogooner

02-21-09, 05:31 PM

Hello all. This is my first post here. And first time on this website.

What an amazing (and overwhelming thread!).

I find myself here due to investigating an idea I had which requires knowledge and guidance beyond my current level.

Before I go further, I just wanted to express my thanks and admiration for the creator and contributors of this thread. It is the most comprehensive source of information I have found while scouring the internet for information regarding HTPC's.

Here is my situation and predicament: I currently have a DirecTV subscription and have recently found out that they are raising their prices again. I pay around $85 a month for about 150 channels (of which we watch only around 25), two sports packages so I can watch European football, and no HD package.

I started wondering if I could connect a computer to my HDTV and watch TV shows, sports and DVD's through it while sitting on my sofa. I already do it at my desk on a monitor. But I wanted to be able to watch in comfort on a big screen, with good resolution quality, an on screen programming guide (windows media center?), record programming like TiVo or a DVD recorder, surround sound, and not have to pay a monthly subscription for it!

Is this what an HTPC is meant to do? And, if so, what are the drawbacks?

I'm curious if there is anyone else who has a system that they utilize in this fashion and how it performs. I apologize if this topic has been covered. I admit I didn't read this entire thread and I wasn't certain what to search for. I began to read this thread and only managed to make it about a tenth of the way down the first page before my head began to hurt :-)

If a computer is available that would facilitate all of my needs, I would like to build it myself. I've never built a computer but I think I would enjoy it. Plus I'd like to keep the cost down but make it as future proof as economically reasonable. My experience is limited to replacing my graphics card and adding RAM. But I am confident I could do this.

Last question - what is a media PC? In my research, I've come across the term media PC and HTPC, but I've been unable to distinguish the difference.

Thanks to all in advance for any guidance you can provide!

renethx

02-21-09, 06:59 PM

By Multichannel LPCM, do you mean 6 RCA cables from the sound card to the AVR? Or can it be an HDMI cable from the sound card to the AVR, but the AVR's panel will display "PCM" instead of "TrueHD/DTS-MA"?
LPCM is the raw digital audio format in PC and CE. Audio processing including sample rate conversion, mixing, effects, room correction is done on LPCM by software, OS and DSP. Outside PC, there are only two cable standards that carry LPCM:

- S/PDIF (optical, coaxial): stereo LPCM (stereo only because of the lack of bandwidth)
- HDMI: multichannel LPCM

Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are the names of lossless compression schemes of digital audio (as opposed to lossy compression DD and DTS). These formats are frequently used in BD instead of LPCM because of the limited BD disc space (like DD/DTS in the case of DVD). Audio in these formats can't be processed by software or DSP (audiophiles prefer sending these formats to AVR instead of LPCM because they hate audio processing in PC without their permission). Only HDMI 1.3 (and higher) can carry these formats. An AVR usually displays "PCM" (meaning stereo PCM), "multichannel PCM", "Dolby TrueHD", "DTS-HD Master Audio" according to the audio signals it receives. Of course all the compressed audio signals are eventually decompressed into LPCM in AVR, then processed by DSP in AVR; then sent to analog converson circuitry.

renethx

02-21-09, 07:36 PM

I started wondering if I could connect a computer to my HDTV and watch TV shows, sports and DVD's through it while sitting on my sofa. I already do it at my desk on a monitor. But I wanted to be able to watch in comfort on a big screen, with good resolution quality, an on screen programming guide (windows media center?), record programming like TiVo or a DVD recorder, surround sound, and not have to pay a monthly subscription for it!

Is this what an HTPC is meant to do? And, if so, what are the drawbacks?

Last question - what is a media PC? In my research, I've come across the term media PC and HTPC, but I've been unable to distinguish the difference.
PC TV tuners have several limitations. Check the TV tuner section at page 1. As for HDTV, current TV tuners support only ATSC OTA and basic cable TV channels. They don't support premium cable TV channels (because they are encrypted) and satellite TV. You can watch (and record) supported contents in a large display, say 1920x1080 (and higher of course).

Watching and recording TV programs is one of the major purposes of HTPC. HTPC is just a PC, but intended to be used in a home theater environment. You can call any generic PC an HTPC if you use it for your home theater. But HTPC usually features a nice-looking desktop case (just to match other AV equipments), hardware for HTPC (a good graphics card, TV tuner, sound card, remote control etc.) and software for HTPC (front end, media player etc.). Media PC is a synonym of HTPC.

audit13

02-21-09, 09:10 PM

It's not easy to identify the cause. CPU should be fine. What CPU usage do you see at BD playback? Did you select 23Hz (= 23.976Hz) refresh rate in CCC? You may want to try ReClock. TMT 2.1.6.129 could be a problem. Check the thread Arcsoft TotalMedia Theatre (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=981683&page=128)

I decided to connect the hdmi as follows: htpc-->Onkyo --> hdtv rather than feeding the signal directly to the tv. Now I can watch movies without stuttering under WinXP SP3. However, I can't get Power DVD Ultra 7.3 or TMT to output multichannel lpcm sound. I disabled my mobo's on-board sound, installed the Realtek hdmi driver for my ati 4550, and the audio update from the MS website. When I select 5.1 or no speakers from the audio properties, I get all-channel stereo from my Onkyo which basically means that my Okyo is being fed a stereo mix. Based on my searches, it looks like multichannel lpcm isn't possible under WinXP.

Under Vista, when I select 5.1 surround, I get multi-channel lpcm. With Vista, I also disabled my mobo's on-board sound and loaded the Realtek 2.13 driver.

I would prefer XP since it boots faster and responds more quickly.

renethx

02-21-09, 09:54 PM

Based on my searches, it looks like multichannel lpcm isn't possible under WinXP.
Did you try ATI HDMI Audio Driver (http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx) at game.amd.com? (ATI Radeon™ Video Card Drivers > Optional Downloads > Windows XP 32-bit.)

Lostclusters

02-21-09, 10:53 PM

LPCM is the raw digital audio format in PC and CE. Audio processing including sample rate conversion, mixing, effects, room correction is done on LPCM by software, OS and DSP. Outside PC, there are only two cable standards that carry LPCM:

- S/PDIF (optical, coaxial): stereo LPCM (stereo only because of the lack of bandwidth)
- HDMI: multichannel LPCM

Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are the names of lossless compression schemes of digital audio (as opposed to lossy compression DD and DTS). These formats are frequently used in BD instead of LPCM because of the limited BD disc space (like DD/DTS in the case of DVD). Audio in these formats can't be processed by software or DSP (audiophiles prefer sending these formats to AVR instead of LPCM because they hate audio processing in PC without their permission). Only HDMI 1.3 (and higher) can carry these formats. An AVR usually displays "PCM" (meaning stereo PCM), "multichannel PCM", "Dolby TrueHD", "DTS-HD Master Audio" according to the audio signals it receives. Of course all the compressed audio signals are eventually decompressed into LPCM in AVR, then processed by DSP in AVR; then sent to analog converson circuitry.

I am still struggling to understand all this HD audio stuff. But if I understand it correctly, LPCM audio encoded from a BD rip and multiplexed with encoded video in a .mkv container is every bit as good as the audio on the BD and this .mkv file is decodable by an ATI 4xxx both audio and video, right?

renethx

02-21-09, 11:12 PM

I am still struggling to understand all this HD audio stuff. But if I understand it correctly, LPCM audio encoded from a BD rip and multiplexed with encoded video in a .mkv container is every bit as good as the audio on the BD and this .mkv file is decodable by an ATI 4xxx both audio and video, right?
Yes.

audit13

02-22-09, 12:23 AM

Did you try ATI HDMI Audio Driver (http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx) at game.amd.com? (ATI Radeon™ Video Card Drivers > Optional Downloads > Windows XP 32-bit.)

Thanks for the suggestion. Installing the Ati driver removed the Realtek HDMI device from my sound options and installed the Ati HD rear output device. Using TMT, I'm able to get proper 5.1 multichannel sound to my receiver. With PowerDVD Ultra 7.3, my receiver's front panel indicates that it's receiving a multichannel signal but it sounds like the same signal is being fed to all channels. I can hear voices and dialogue from all 5 speakers with PowerDVD but only from the centre channel when using TMT. For me, TMT is definitely the way to go for me.

Lostclusters

02-22-09, 12:56 AM

rkgriffin

02-22-09, 02:02 AM

I have decided for now to use an nVidia 9800GT card instead of an ATI card and since I will only have S/PDIF audio (through optical or linked to the nVidia's HDMI), is there any advantages to running the video directly to my HDTV instead of through my AVR? I always read people wanting to do this but what are the advantages?

I guess one I can think of is being able to calibrate that seperate input on the TV. Any others?

My gear:
Display: Samsung LN52A650
AVR: Denon 4308ci

htpc09

02-22-09, 09:44 AM

Hi Could some one tell me what the Difference is between

GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3HP
vs
GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H

Look all over cant find any info any where what the P Stand for

Thanx

michael

renethx

02-22-09, 10:03 AM

What is the recommended player for these LPCM HD audio .mkv files?
MPC-HC is a good player.

renethx

02-22-09, 10:13 AM

Hi Could some one tell me what the Difference is between

GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3HP
vs
GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H

Look all over cant find any info any where what the P Stand for
5 phase power vs 4 phase power, Dolby Home Theater added (since DS3H v2.x).

htpc09

02-22-09, 10:17 AM

5 phase power vs 4 phase power, Dolby Home Theater added.

Thank you renethx

a cant seem to find any in the uk ? GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3Hp

there loads shops stock thease GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H

htpc09

02-22-09, 10:24 AM

5 phase power vs 4 phase power, Dolby Home Theater added (since DS3H v2.x).

thanx renethx so only Difference is

5 phase power vs 4 phase power

what this mean ?

thanx michael

renethx

02-22-09, 10:25 AM

Thank you renethx

a cant seem to find any in the uk ? GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3Hp

there loads shops stock thease GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H
I replaced DS3H by DS3HP simply because DS3H is not available in US any longer. If you can't find DS3HP, then choose DS3H. Phase power is related to CPU power circuitry. You shouldn't care about this.

htpc09

02-22-09, 10:52 AM

Thanx renethx you have really help me last week a was going buy all me parts.
There would not have been powerfull enough for what a wanted to do so am please to have found this topic :):)

My goals is to

have me htpc cornected to me 42 inch plasma by hdmi /sound

plama spec pansonic 42 px80b can me htpc be conected to this plassma by hdmi ?

http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_GB/558137/index.html;jsessionid=0a6d28f030d86a11b708ee1a488b9823bec719 499124.e34MaN0RbxyTbO0LbNmSax8Sa3mLe6fznA5Pp7ftolbGmkTy

a want it energy efficient / Quiet

play HD media / h.264
watch tv record tv / freeview
play dvd ripps avi/ mkv divx
play mp3s

software a will be use is mediaportal to play me media and record tv /watch tv .

This is me hardware what a have went for

CPU: Athlon X2 5050e

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 PC2-6400C4 800MHz Dual Channel Kit ( All ready got off a old pc )

Graphics Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 4550 GDDR3 512MB but one Q about this card it does NOT seem to support HDCP

Terratec Cinergy 2400i DT - Twin DVB-T Digital Card PCIe slot (x1, x4 or x16)

Corsair HX 620W ATX2.2 Modular SLI Compliant Power Supply ( All ready got off a old pc )

SilverStone Lascala LC17b

is all this compatible ??

thanx michael

renethx

02-22-09, 11:10 AM

htpc09

Connecting to the plasma via HDMI should be no problem. Sapphire HD 4550 (actually every HD 4xxx card) supports HDCP. All should be compatible with each other.

htpc09

02-22-09, 11:16 AM

htpc09

Connecting to the plasma via HDMI should be no problem. Sapphire HD 4550 (actually every HD 4xxx card) supports HDCP. All should be compatible with each other.

thank you for all the help renethx

1 Q a for got to ask you is when a buy all this will a use the dvi to hdmi on Sapphire HD 4550 or use the hdmi on the motherboard to conect to me plasma

thanx again am buy the stuff Tomorrow

thanx michael

XanaX

02-22-09, 11:17 AM

I have a basic question:
For HTPC purposes (1080p/MKV movies and music to be specific), what would be the better choice - a slower quad-core processor (AMD Phenom 9150e) or a faster, dual-core one (Intel E7300/7400).

Thanks in advance!:)

cwstnsko

02-22-09, 11:30 AM

thank you for all the help renethx

1 Q a for got to ask you is when a buy all this will a use the dvi to hdmi on Sapphire HD 4550 or use the hdmi on the motherboard to conect to me plasma

thanx again am buy the stuff Tomorrow

thanx michael

I have the passive version of the Sapphire 4550, and it has HDMI right on the card, no need for an adapter, but to be clear, you want to connect your TV to the card, not the motherboard, if an adapter is required, then you should use the adapter

htpc09

02-22-09, 11:39 AM

I have the passive version of the Sapphire 4550, and it has HDMI right on the card, no need for an adapter, but to be clear, you want to connect your TV to the card, not the motherboard, if an adapter is required, then you should use the adapter

thanx cwstnsko:)

notslow

02-22-09, 03:29 PM

I’ve been reading the overwhelming amount of information on here for the last week and I have to say thanks to renethx for the informative thread.

I would also like to suggest to people asking questions to consider sending a few bucks his way before you ask. I have seen a lot of people saying that they plan to send something after they get their system figured out. It may be easier to forget to send him his due after the fact. Consider what you will save by having access to such concise information and be sure to thank the man, preferably with some cash :D

Now for my long list of questions, please bear in mind that to say I am a novice would be bragging. The last computer I put together was a 2.8 Pentium 4, so I am completely blank on all of the current technology. I am trying to get caught up, I’ve learned a lot here.

I would like to build an HTPC that will store a few hundred movies in 4.35gb ISO and all of my music. I will likely start ripping Blue Ray and eventually burning BD too. I rip, compress and burn DVDs now.

I will be using this as my primary computer for internet browsing and running Office 2007, Outlook, photoshop and the occasional basic video editing. I will likely keep my old beater for downloading files online.

I will likely start playing some games and possibly start using it as a DVR.

I would like to be able to play BD in 24Hz 1080P and need to have 7.1 HD audio in one HDMI cable to my AVR.

I also like having onboard video in case I have any problems with the graphics card, I can still manage to use the system with a little fiddling.

I definitely want to have some power and speed without any major limitations of these applications and still be fairly reliable as much of a budget as possible. I’d like to put together something that I can be happy with for 4-5 years without constantly wanting to upgrade. Yes I’m typing this on that 2.8 P4 :o

CPU: AMD Phenom II X3 720 149.99

CPU Cooler: Thermalright HR-01 PLUS 49.99

CPU Fan: Scythe S-FLEX S-FDB 120mm Fan SFF21E 14.99

Motherboard: ASUS M3N-HT Deluxe/HDMI AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 780a 179.99
Or MSI K9N2 Diamond AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA nForce 780a 189.99
Memory: G.SKILL F2-8000CL5D-4GBPQ 49.99

Graphics Card: MSI N260GTX-T2D896-OCv2 GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready 199.99

HDD: 4 WD10EACS (already have)

LG GGC-H20L BD drive (already have)

PSU: Enermax Modu82+ 625W 159.99
or SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650HT 650W 129.99

Case: SILVERSTONE LC03B-V, 119.99
or GD01B-R 129.99
or ZALMAN Black Aluminum HD160Plus (really like the 650, but pricey) 279.99

total cost 895.00- 1095.00

Remote: Harmony One
Keyboard: DiNovo Edge (already have)

From the reviews I’ve read, this is the best bang for the buck and is very close to the Phenom II X4 940 in speed for a lot less. This processor seems to work as well as the quad core according to the tests I’ve read. What are your thoughts on this? Would there be any major real world improvement going with the 940 for my application?

With one of these motherboards can I pass HDMI 7.1 audio through my video card so that audio and video is in the same cable? This is important to me as I want all source switching controlled by the Onkyo TX-SR876. Which board would be better for over clocking? From what I read the X3 720 is very stable to over clock within reason.
Will the video card conflict with the hard drives or anything else in any of the cases I’ve chosen? Any other comments about the cases I’ve listed? I will likely go with one of the Silverstone cases as the Zalman is really out of my budget.
Should I use a small high speed drive for the OS and software or will that effect speed enough to matter? I’m also not sure if the high speed drives are louder.
Should I run Vista media edition or XP MCE? From what I gather Vista still has a lot of driver issues. Would XP work better?

rhinogooner

02-22-09, 04:21 PM

PC TV tuners have several limitations. Check the TV tuner section at page 1. As for HDTV, current TV tuners support only ATSC OTA and basic cable TV channels. They don't support premium cable TV channels (because they are encrypted) and satellite TV. You can watch (and record) supported contents in a large display, say 1920x1080 (and higher of course).

Watching and recording TV programs is one of the major purposes of HTPC. HTPC is just a PC, but intended to be used in a home theater environment. You can call any generic PC an HTPC if you use it for your home theater. But HTPC usually features a nice-looking desktop case (just to match other AV equipments), hardware for HTPC (a good graphics card, TV tuner, sound card, remote control etc.) and software for HTPC (front end, media player etc.). Media PC is a synonym of HTPC.

Thanks for the response ReneTHX. I realize I won't be able to pull in DirecTV channels with a TV tuner. But I would like to escape from the extortionate monthly fees without having to sacrifice too much of the programming we enjoy. I want to do this all legally though.

I suppose I'm hoping to be able to watch all of the shows we currently have an interest in with OTA and online sites like Hulu, Discovery, History Channel, TNT.com, etc. As for sports, I am hoping I will be able to stream them from ESPN360 and sites like Justin.tv. Does this seem reasonable?

If I might trouble you just a bit further, is there a particular build you would recommend for my aspirations? Perhaps one of those listed on page 85?

I will outline my goals here if this is helpful:

-Watch and record TV shows and streaming sports broadcasts (in HD when possible)

-Watch Blu-Ray DVD's

-Possibly playing video games (willing to forfeit this if it gets too expensive)

-Possibly email and web browse (not at additional expense though)

-Clear resolution and full use of screen size on 42" Sony KDF-46E2000

-7.1 surround sound

-IR for One For All universal remote URC-8910 (will buy new remote if necessary)

-Wireless N

-Low power consumption

-Low heat or sufficient cooling device and venting

-Quiet

-Reasonably future proof (additional slots for expansion, solid hardware that won't become obsolete in a year or three)

Is there anything you can think of that I am missing and might want to consider?

In regards to watching TV through an HTPC, are there any online sites that collect programming information and links to the shows that act like an onscreen programming guide so you don't have to surf around the net looking for what is on? Does Windows Media Center do this?

Your help is much appreciated. You can trust that I will make nice contribution for your efforts and expertise in this guide.

htpc09

02-22-09, 06:06 PM

could some one Recommend me a cpu cooler for Athlon X2 5050e ADH5050DOBOX 2.6GHz 45W Socket AM2 it has to be really quiet

the case am use is SilverStone Lascala LC17 and motherboard is GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H

a have copy off renethx ATX AMD Low profile pg 85 but a cant seem to find
this cooler any where in the uk CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90

thanx again renethx

renethx

02-22-09, 06:40 PM

martijua

02-22-09, 10:01 PM

I have a Sony KDS-60A2020 in our bedroom. This tv has overscan and when I use my NVidia 8800 GTX gaming pc the image doesnt fit perfectly or exactly as it should due to the tv's over scan. I found a hack that allows me to resize HDTV desktop in the NVidia control applet...but that hack only works for the 8800 GTX card as far as I know.

My Samsungs 32 and 46 inch HDTVs have a "JUST SCAN" option that allows the output from the card fit perfectly on the HDTV. I've built the lowend mini intel/intel system on page 85 using the Intel G45 DG45FC mini-ITX HTPC Motherboard and it works great on the samsungs with just scan.

I want to build a HTPC for our bedroom and hook it up to the 60" Sony. I have a WHS that has all our blu ray and dvd iso's and would like to be able to play them on the tv in our bedroom thru a htpc.

What video card should should I buy that will allow me to play blu ray iso and that will let me resize the HDTV Desktop to compensate for the overscan of the KDS-60A2020 ?
I've read that ATI cards are good for that....any suggestions?

renethx

02-23-09, 02:41 AM

CPU: AMD Phenom II X3 720 149.99...
First, thanks for your contribution. :)

GTX 260 (10.5" long) is just too large for most HTPC cases. LC03B-V looks good for GTX 260, but the case requires a parallel port for VFD and most current mbs lack it. GD01B and Zalman HD160 are no good. LC17B/LC20B and Antec Fusion Remote Max are good if you remove one of the two HDD cages, but then you loose 3 (or 2) HDD space. I recommend Radeon HD 4870 instead of GTX 260 (as powerful as GTX 260, but short enough [9.5"] for most HTPC cases). If you prefer NVIDIA, you'd better choose GeForce 9800 GT (9" long) although you have to sacrifice 3D performance (all the GeForce cards higher than 9800 GT are 10.5" long). BTW the mb's width is 9.6".

You also have to consider IR receiver, built in the case (pricier) or an external USB receiver (add $30).

HR-01 PLUS is too tall for most desktop cases. Shorter side-flow coolers Xigmatek HDT-SD964, ZEROtherm BTF90, CNPS9500A LED should fit many desktop cases, but you need to check the compatibility. Top-flow coolers such as Cooler Master Geminii S and Noctua NH-C12P will fit most desktop cases.

Phenom II X4 810 ($175) is faster than Phenom II X3 720 ($145) in encoding (because of an extra core). This is one of the real world applications where X4 excels. x264 HD Benchmark (http://www.extremeoverclocking.com/reviews/processors/AMD_Phenom_II_X4_810_X3_720_8.html):

- Phenom II X4 810: 15.58 fps
- Phenom II X3 720: 11.81 fps

On the other hand, the difference between 8xx and 9xx is the size of L3 cache, which has less effect on real-world applications.

The main feature of 780a is dual PCIe x16 for SLI x16. If you don't go with SLI (or CrossFire), maybe nForce 750a (or AMD 790GX) is enough.

WD6400AAKS is good and fast for OS. If you have enough budget, choose WD VelociRaptor. Of course you can use a 100GB partition of one of the WD10EACS disks for OS without losing performance much if your case does not have enough space for 5 HDDs.

Vista, or Windows 7 Beta (if you can still find it), is easier to configure with better driver support than XP nowadays.

I recommend you to start with the ATX high-end AMD/AMD or AMD/NVIDIA system and modify it gradually to avoid compatibility problems.

htpc09

02-23-09, 07:49 AM

could any one tell me if this fan Scythe Ninja Mini CPU heatsink will work
with this setup for cooling and quiet httpc

CPU: Athlon X2 5050e

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H

Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2x1GB) DDR2 PC2-6400C4 800MHz Dual Channel Kit

Graphics Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 4550 GDDR3 512MB

Terratec Cinergy 2400i DT - Twin DVB-T Digital Card PCIe slot (x1, x4 or x16)

Corsair HX 620W ATX2.2 Modular SLI Compliant Power Supply

SilverStone Lascala LC17b

thanx michael

XanaX

02-23-09, 08:20 AM

E7300/E7400 or even Q8300 is a better buy.

Thanks for the answer (and for this amazing thread).
However, I would like to know why the Intel CPU's are a better buy.

renethx

02-23-09, 12:48 PM

If I might trouble you just a bit further, is there a particular build you would recommend for my aspirations? Perhaps one of those listed on page 85?
For moderate gaming performance (as well as the other tasks you mentioned), a mid-range system is good. In particular:

- MicroATX mid-range Intel/Intel system: 1xPCIe+1xPCI, 1xDVD+3xHDD (or 2xDVD+2xHDD)
- ATX mid-range Intel/Intel system: 2xPCIe+2xPCI+1xPCIe x8, 1xDVD+5xHDD

One For All URC-8910 should be good and compatible with the built-in IR receiver.

For BD (and HD-DVD) playback, add a BD drive:

- LG GGC-H20L

For ATCS OTA, add

- Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 PCIe x1 card

For wireless-n,

- D-Link DGL-4500 or TRENDnet TEW-633GR IEEE802.11n router (if you don't have a router yet)
- ENCORE ENLWI-N 802.11n Wireless PCI Adapter (there are many good cards, this one is the cheapest)

OS

- Vista 32-bit Home Premium (or Ultimate)

I don't know about online programming guide. Sources for online content (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1098626) is a good resource.

renethx

02-23-09, 12:50 PM

could some one Recommend me a cpu cooler for Athlon X2 5050e ADH5050DOBOX 2.6GHz 45W Socket AM2 it has to be really quiet

the case am use is SilverStone Lascala LC17 and motherboard is GIGABYTE GA-MA78G-DS3H
Scythe Ninja Mini (80mm side flow) or Xigmatek HDT-SD964 (92mm side flow) or Cooler Master Geminii S (120mm top flow). A larger fan is quieter.

renethx

02-23-09, 01:01 PM

Thanks for the answer (and for this amazing thread).
However, I would like to know why the Intel CPU's are a better buy.
It's just price/performance ratio (in addition to power consumption; 9150e is actually not so good at load).

nitdawg

02-23-09, 04:32 PM

I have just basic cable through TWC (Raleigh, NC) and they send the local big networks via unencrypted QAM so I get really nice HDTV without an external antenna. My question is with TV tuner cards, more specifically the dual-tuner aspect of these cards. Both the AverMedia and WinTV-HVR-2250 say they have 2 tuners, although I think with the AverMedia's dual tuner I could only record one via by cable (whether its QAM or standard cable) and one via ATSC (antenna). :mad:

I am looking for a setup where I could record two QAM channels at the same time...the WinTV card looks as though it can function as two digital tuners, therefore I could record 2 QAM channels via my cable feed. :) Yes, no, maybe?

Almost ready to pull the trigger!

Thanks!
NitDawg

renethx

02-23-09, 04:42 PM

I am looking for a setup where I could record two QAM channels at the same time...the WinTV card looks as though it can function as two digital tuners, therefore I could record 2 QAM channels via my cable feed. :) Yes, no, maybe?
Yes. Another option is HDHomeRun (better integration in VMC).

nitdawg

02-23-09, 04:59 PM

Sweet, I went with the WinTV. Let's see how the hell it all goes down!

htpc09

02-23-09, 05:19 PM

Scythe Ninja Mini (80mm side flow) or Xigmatek HDT-SD964 (92mm side flow) or Cooler Master Geminii S (120mm top flow). A larger fan is quieter.

thank you renethx what you mean by side flow could you explain a bit more for the Ninja Mini (80mm side flow) a just thought it went on one way ??:confused:

renethx

02-23-09, 05:22 PM

thank you renethx what you mean by side flow could you explain a bit more for the Ninja Mini (80mm side flow) a just thought it went on one way ??:confused:
Side-flow means that the fan blows air horizontally, and top-flow vertically. The stock cooler is a top-flow cooler.

jesseasi

02-23-09, 07:02 PM

Renethx,

I have decided to use my assortment of spare parts to build two HTPC's. My main purpose will be to stream HD MKV's from a 22TB unraid server. I plan to run XBMC and would like a remote control that can power on and off the systems.

No games, no encoding, and nothing else other than media streaming.

System 1 - Antec Fusion Remote case, Quad Core Q6600 2.4, 4GB Ram, 120GB SATA HD.

System 2 - Antec Fusion Remote case, Core 2 Duo E7300 2.66, 4GB Ram, 120GB SATA HD.

Questions
#1 - Can you suggest a micro ATX board for these systems? Can I get by running a board with built in HDMI? I want to pass the audio I can through the single HDMI cable.
#2 The case choice only supports Micro-ATX. I do already own 2 full ATX boards but seems that buying a different case and separate video would be more costly then buying an All in one board. Any tips here?
#3 I plan run Vista Business - should I run 32bit or 64bit? Should I also consider running something else instead? I really only ever plan to run XBMC. (maybe linux?)

Any other tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

notslow

02-23-09, 07:27 PM

Thanks so much for all the great advice. I have made some revisions to my list. I based my first system on your high end and premium system, but was going the wrong direction with the processor and motherboard for my use. Thanks for setting me straight. This is more in line with my budget. I might even be able to go with the Zalman case now :)

I read that the ASUS M3N72-D will only only accept 4 sata connections without raid. I planned to use 4 hard drives and the BD drive. Will I have to set up raid? I know nothing about raid.
Not sure which board would be better any thoughts?

Any idea if the Reaper memory will interfere with anything in the case? Any reason I shouldn’t go with 1066 memory?

I sure like the price of the ASUS EN9800GT. Will this card play hdcp 7.1 audio through the same HDMI cable? I’m still very confused about how this works.

I will likely partion some space on one of the WD10EACS for the OS. Will I really need 100gb though? I have a 40 gb hard drive on my current system(xp) and I am just pushing the limits of that size. Does Vista require more? I was thinking 60-80 would be plenty, but wouldn’t want to find out I’m wrong after the fact :)

What is your opinion of the SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650HT over the Enermax? I would like to go with the SeaSonic, since it’s quite a bit less expensive and seems to score well. Any negatives that you could point out?

Should I run Vista MCE or standard Vista; is there a MCE version of Windows 7 beta?

I should add that I will likely get Crysis to play on this system. Don't know if that will be any issue.

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 810 175.99

CPU Cooler: XIGMATEK HDT-SD964 22.99

Motherboard: MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum 109.99

Or ASUS M3N72-D 129.99 with call of duty game

Memory: OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 OCZ2RPR10664GK 45.99

Or OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 Dual OCZ2P10664GK 43.99
Graphics Card: ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP 104.99

HDD: 4 WD10EACS (already have)

LG GGC-H20L BD drive (already have)

PSU: Enermax Modu82+ 625W 159.99
or SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650HT 650W 129.99

Case: GD01B-R 129.99 + 30.00 for IR receiver 160.00
or ZALMAN Black Aluminum HD160Plus (really like the 650, but pricey) 279.99

total cost: 748-920.00

OS: Vista?
Remote: Harmony One
Keyboard: DiNovo Edge (already have)

Paths

02-23-09, 08:21 PM

FYI,

The new Sapphire Radeon 4670 Ultimate fanless card will definately not fit the Antec Fusion 430 series cases. It appears to be about 1/4 inc or less to tall with that bleeping chunk of heat sink on the top edge of the card.

But when I ordered I was assumed it would most likely not fit so I ordered the Sapphire Radeon 4550 fanless 1/2 height card too and it works fine and gave me a big boost in video performance from the onboard video on my FI90-HD mobo.

I want to try and get the 4670 working in this case and wanted to know is there a good passive addon heatsink for this card I could get and replace the one that came stock? I would obvisouly need one that does not go over the top but could be a good deal longer or wrap around the back edge to the other side and not over the top.

My last thought was heating modding the heatsink that is on it, but I wonder how well I could heat and bend the heat pipes to move it down and off the top of the card.

Threxx

02-23-09, 10:41 PM

Wow this is a heck of a thread.

Quick question: Do all HDMI equipped motherboard support Dolby TrueHD or only some of them? If so, how can I differentiate?

Possibly longer question: What's going to be my best choice for a motherboard if I'm planning on using both integrated video and sound output to a preamp processor (Emotiva) via HDMI? I don't mind spending a little more money if it's going to improve sound or video quality for music or movies (I've already put 5 figures into my home theater so that's another hundred or two?), but I don't PC game at all so having SLI support or support for a bunch of drives really doesn't appeal to me.

I probably won't even watch Blu-rays on it since I have a PS3, but I wouldn't mind having the option.

I just made the mistake last week of buying a really nice HT Omega Claro Plus+ sound card. I got it installed yesterday and was blown away by the sound quality from the analogue out vs my old Audigy ZS2, but then after reading around realized I was going to need to use SPDIF anyway which meant the expensive card supposedly would sound no better than regular integrated sound... not to mention I was going to have to buy something like an ATI HD 4xxx series graphics card to bring SPDIF in through HDMI to my pre/pro and that was way more $$ than wanted to spend on a graphics card since I don't game.

renethx

02-24-09, 12:43 AM

Questions
#1 - Can you suggest a micro ATX board for these systems? Can I get by running a board with built in HDMI? I want to pass the audio I can through the single HDMI cable.
#2 The case choice only supports Micro-ATX. I do already own 2 full ATX boards but seems that buying a different case and separate video would be more costly then buying an All in one board. Any tips here?
#3 I plan run Vista Business - should I run 32bit or 64bit? Should I also consider running something else instead? I really only ever plan to run XBMC. (maybe linux?)
I recommend a GeForce 9300/9400 mATX mb. IGP is good enough for your purpose. For example, MSI P7NGM-Digital and GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H.

- MSI P7NGM-Digital: $109
- Antec Fusion Remote: $143
- Total: $252

If you use the ATX mb,

- Sapphire Radeon HD 4550: $50
- SilverStone Lascala LC20M (for example): $180
- Total: $230

But you can sell the ATX mb in the first case (-$50). If you are going to buy a new OS, Home Premium is ~$30 cheaper than Business (unless you need features only Business offers, e.g. remode desktop and complete backup). 32 bit is perhaps easier to configure.

renethx

02-24-09, 01:50 AM

I read that the ASUS M3N72-D will only only accept 4 sata connections without raid. I planned to use 4 hard drives and the BD drive. Will I have to set up raid? I know nothing about raid.
Not sure which board would be better any thoughts?

Any idea if the Reaper memory will interfere with anything in the case? Any reason I shouldn’t go with 1066 memory?

I sure like the price of the ASUS EN9800GT. Will this card play hdcp 7.1 audio through the same HDMI cable? I’m still very confused about how this works.

I will likely partion some space on one of the WD10EACS for the OS. Will I really need 100gb though? I have a 40 gb hard drive on my current system(xp) and I am just pushing the limits of that size. Does Vista require more? I was thinking 60-80 would be plenty, but wouldn’t want to find out I’m wrong after the fact :)

What is your opinion of the SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650HT over the Enermax? I would like to go with the SeaSonic, since it’s quite a bit less expensive and seems to score well. Any negatives that you could point out?

Should I run Vista MCE or standard Vista; is there a MCE version of Windows 7 beta?

I should add that I will likely get Crysis to play on this system. Don't know if that will be any issue.
nForce 750a SLI supports all six SATA ports in AHCI and RAID modes. If you are not going to use RAID, just choose AHCI mode in BIOS and you are done. Even if you forgot to select this mode at the Vista installation, you can switch to AHCI mode instantly (just need to modify one registry entry).

ASUS or MSI is recommended. Check the expansion slots arrangement and choose the better one for your needs. I chose ASUS because it supports two PCIe x1 cards (MSI only one) and a native HDMI port.

Reaper is fine unless it interferes with the CPU cooler of your choice. But memory runs relatively cool; unless you overclock it, you don't need a large heat spreader. You may see a couple of percent performance increase in some applications with 1066 than with 800.

HDMI is not straigntfoward unlike Radeon HD 4xxx. There are two ways to get video/audio in one HDMI cable.

1. Use S/PDIF of the mb's audio codec; connect the internal S/PDIF out connector to the video card's S/PDIF connector and let GPU multiplex video with audio and send HDMI signals over HDMI (via DVI-HDMI adapter). The supported audio formants are stereo LPCM, DD, DTS.
2. Use Hybrid Power. In this case you use iGPU's HDMI audio. Video can be from either iGPU (Save Power mode) or dGPU (Performance Boost mode). The supported audio formants are multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS.

The minimum space requirement for Vista Premium is 40GB. I usually recommend a separte HDD for OS because easier maintenance, in particular considering that WD10EACS is only 5400rpm.

Seasonic should be good. Comparison is here (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article806-page5.html). Seasonic becomes pretty loud at 300W (but you will rarely reach 300W).

You should choose Vista Home Permium or Ultimate. Ultimate has remote desktop and complete PC backup. Windows 7 beta is only one version (free, of course). The retail will come with seven versions (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15731928#post15731928))

Crysis? Depending on resolution and settings, you might want to go with HD 4870 1GB (here (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3437&p=5) and here (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3415&p=4)). But you should expect +50W at idle compared with Save Power mode of 9800 GT + nForce 750a SLI.

renethx

02-24-09, 01:59 AM

Quick question: Do all HDMI equipped motherboard support Dolby TrueHD or only some of them? If so, how can I differentiate?
Check the comparion tables at page 85, and this thread Factual & Unbiased HTPC HDMI HD Audio + Video Roundup Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093445). (But you don't need the support for TrueHD if you don't play BD.)

F6Hawk

02-24-09, 06:42 AM

Ummm, are you sure? As far as I have ever heard, there are single-phase & three-phase power. Never heard of 4 & 5 phase power.

Single phase 120V power has a sine wave with peaks of +/- 170V, with RMS of 120V. Three phase power is the same thing, but spaced every 120° apart, providing a smoother, more stable flow of power.

Unless it has to do with the number of power outputs, I don't think there is any such thing as 4 or 5 phase power.

5 phase power vs 4 phase power, Dolby Home Theater added (since DS3H v2.x).

renethx

02-24-09, 07:00 AM

Ummm, are you sure? As far as I have ever heard, there are single-phase & three-phase power. Never heard of 4 & 5 phase power.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%224+phase+power%22+motherboard

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%225+phase+power%22+motherboard

For enthusiast motherboards, 8 phase power design or even 16 phase power design is very common.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%228+phase+power%22+motherboard

I hope you use Google wisely if you have never heard of something I talk. ;)

david.tickle

02-24-09, 07:43 AM

Thanks for a great guide (and for the continuing updates and replies).

I'm almost set to pull the trigger on a mid-range microATX Intel build, but have a couple of questions that I'd like to put to the forum.

1. If I stump up for a G45-based motherboard (currently looking at the Asus P5Q-EM) is there any advantage in installing a separate video card if I don't plan on using it for gaming at all? In other words, will the on board video cover me if all I'm interested in is DVD and Blu-Ray playback? What would I gain by installing a discrete card?

2. Do Intel CPUs ship with a stock cooler these days or do I really have to buy a fancy cooler? I don't plan on doing any overclocking or tweaking and intend to box it up in an Antec Fusion case.

3. I'd like to mirror 2 x 1GB drives, simply to cover my behind in the event of one biting the dust. Is the onboard RAID controller on the Asus P5Q-EM up to the task or do I need something a bit more clever?

Thanks for any advice!

renethx

02-24-09, 08:01 AM

david.tickle

02-24-09, 08:23 AM

1. In general you may have better experience with Radeon HD 4670 than GMA X4500HD in video playback. You can try GMA X4500HD before buying a discrete card anyway.

2. Intel CPU retail box (not OEM) comes with a cooler. You can try it first before deciding to buy a third-party cooler.

3. Intel chipset supports RAID 1 (and 0, 10, 5). Personally I prefer a backup solution to RAID 1.

Thanks for your comments (and the incredibly quick reply)!

najames

02-24-09, 11:45 AM

Threxx

02-24-09, 11:53 AM

Check the comparion tables at page 85, and this thread Factual & Unbiased HTPC HDMI HD Audio + Video Roundup Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093445). (But you don't need the support for TrueHD if you don't play BD.)

Thanks... I saw that but didn't notice the 'updated' note so I thought it was older info from December.

Any opinions on this new MB?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131366
ASUS M4A78T-E
I can't find it mentioned anywhere in this thread, or at least search is saying no results, even if I take the E off.

ronnie_jackson

02-24-09, 11:53 AM

kalrith

02-24-09, 02:57 PM

Dalat

02-24-09, 04:04 PM

I've finally clearly defined my intended use for the HTPC, so please recommend the appropriate components.

Goals:
[1]Play iso of BD movies and SD DVD movies. No physical BD or DVD discs.
[2] For iso of BD movies, MUST have lossless audio. However, bitstreaming of audio is not necessary (thus no need for the Xonar 1.3 card).
[3] I don't want a bunch of RCA cables running from the HTPC to AVR. (No analog outputs)
[4] Don't need 24p video. I like my 60p projector just fine.
[5] My current projector is 720p, will be updating to 1080p in the near future.

I've read page 85 many times, and have more questions than answers, since there are so many choices that can do the job. Please point me to the "best" setup in your opinion. Physical size of the HTPC is irrelevant, I have tons of space in the movie room. Best performance for my stated use is #1 priority. Price is a distant #2.

Thanks!

renethx

02-24-09, 06:29 PM

I have a couple quick questions I need help with before I order a new motherboard & video card today.

My TV is a new 50" Panasonic 720P plasma with HDMI, like it a lot, only $798 when I bought it.

Option 1) I have an older Pioneer VSX-24TX Elite receiver, pre HDMI. If I use this, what is the best way to get video to the TV and audio to the Pioneer? Should I try to use the HDMI from the PC to the TV (assuming I can turn off the sound on the TV) and audio via s/pdif optical/coaxial to the receiver?

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Support/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/EliteReceivers/ci.VSX-24TX.Support

Option 2) Do I punt the Elite receiver and get a new one with HDMI like a 606 Onkyo or something? Preferably not.

Is there any or a noticeable difference using the s/pdif connections?
Connect HTPC to the plasma via HDMI (video), and HTPC to the receiver via optical or coaxial S/PDIF (audio). If your plasma supports DD/DTS pass-through from HDMI IN to the digital audio out, then you can also connect HTPC to the plasma via HDMI (video/audio) and the plasma to the receiver via optical/coaxial cable (audio).

There is a difference between lossy (DD/DTS, over S/PDIF) and lossless (LPCM, over HDMI) audio, but the degree of difference depends on your receiver/speaker systems and your ears.

renethx

02-24-09, 06:37 PM

Any opinions on this new MB?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131366
ASUS M4A78T-E
I can't find it mentioned anywhere in this thread, or at least search is saying no results, even if I take the E off.
Should be good.

renethx

02-24-09, 06:48 PM

Renethx, I have a quick question for you.

Are there any cons to using the Silverstone LC17B case (as recommended with your low-end atx) with the Mid-range ATX build instead of the Fusion Remote Max?

The Silverstone seems to have more capacity both internally and externally, but doesnt include IR which can easily be added. Its also a lot cheaper. I just want to make sure I am not missing any cons with this case.

Ronnie
Pros of Fusion Max are:

- No need of an external IR receiver.
- You can turn on/off the system with remote.
- Roomier
- Better cooling with 120mm+140mm fans.

Pros of LC17

- More storage space (2xDVD, 6xHDD vs 1xDVD, 5xHDD)
- Internal card reader
- Cheaper

renethx

02-24-09, 07:04 PM