Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 27

najames

02-24-09, 07:56 PM

Connect HTPC to the plasma via HDMI (video), and HTPC to the receiver via optical or coaxial S/PDIF (audio). If your plasma supports DD/DTS pass-through from HDMI IN to the digital audio out, then you can also connect HTPC to the plasma via HDMI (video/audio) and the plasma to the receiver via optical/coaxial cable (audio).

There is a difference between lossy and lossless audio, but the degree of difference depends on your speaker systems and your ears.

DOH, never thought about the audio passing through the TV back to the receiver. Sure enough, there is an optical out on the back of the Panasonic TH-50PX80U, would've preferred coaxial instead. The manual says "Digital Audio Out - PCM / Dolby Digital". I need to see if I have an optical cable here that will work.

I have old ears, but fronts are old Klipsch KSF-8.5, SC-1 center. :)

I want to get some different surrounds so I can use my surrounds in the computer room. I played some music for a work event using a PC with a Chaintech AV-710 card -> Rotel Stereo RB-9608X Amp -> B&W 610s and found a lot of incredible sounds/music that are nonexistant in PC Logitech Z-340 2.1 setup. :eek:

Thanks again Renethx, I'll work on it and order some hardware and HDMI cables. I just got a lot of this stuff out of storage and am having some fun.

F6Hawk

02-24-09, 10:46 PM

Purely marketing hype. There is no such thing as PHYSICAL phases over 3. If there were, the application would be used in many places, such as delicate medical & aviation equipment.

The "phases" referred to here simply refer to filtered power (or perhaps switched power). It is a way for manufacturers to try and make their board sound better than other boards. Show me a sine diagram or a white paper on 8 or 16 phase power, and then I may believe it. Either way, the power source is still out of a wall socket, single phase, thru the power supply, single phase, and onto the mobo, single phase. Whatever switching or filtering happens on the mobo, the power is still truly only single phase. If you don't believe me, put the board on an oscilloscope.

I suspect this is why you don't see anything to back up the claims of 4, 6, 8, or 16 phase power on the manufacturer's sites. It's much like saying a 6-bladed razor provides a smoother shave than a 2-bladed one. And then you have those razors that VIBRATE, which are supposed to provide an even more close shave. Believe that? Feel free. But again, it's mostly marketing hype, IMHO.

BTW, from my reading, the only difference I can find between "8 & 16-phase power" is phase shifting. No real benefit, no additional filtering taking place.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%224+phase+power%22+motherboard

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%225+phase+power%22+motherboard

For enthusiast motherboards, 8 phase power design or even 16 phase power design is very common.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%228+phase+power%22+motherboard

I hope you use Google wisely if you have never heard of something I talk. ;)

tighr

02-24-09, 11:46 PM

Ok, piecing together my new HTPC. Looking at the reccomended AMD/AMD system,

GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-US2H
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4550 512MB 64-bit GDDR3 (PCI Express 2.0 x16)

It looks like if I add a Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 (PCI-Express x1), it should also be able to fit, correct? I can also bring along a PCI HDTV tuner that I already own, also low profile, and get all of these to fit in a low profile case, correct? Just wanted to clarify. I'm willing to ditch the PCI tuner if need be. I'd hate to have to go full-height or ATX or ditch the 4550 just because these components wont play nice with each other.

hotwell

02-25-09, 02:39 AM

I recommend a GeForce 9300/9400 mATX mb. IGP is good enough for your purpose. For example, MSI P7NGM-Digital and GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H.

- MSI P7NGM-Digital: $109
- Antec Fusion Remote: $143
- Total: $252

If you use the ATX mb,

- Sapphire Radeon HD 4550: $50
- SilverStone Lascala LC20M (for example): $180
- Total: $230

But you can sell the ATX mb in the first case (-$50). If you are going to buy a new OS, Home Premium is ~$30 cheaper than Business (unless you need features only Business offers, e.g. remode desktop and complete backup). 32 bit is perhaps easier to configure.

where did u find antec fusion remote for $143?

renethx

02-25-09, 02:40 AM

Purely marketing hype. There is no such thing as PHYSICAL phases over 3. If there were, the application would be used in many places, such as delicate medical & aviation equipment.

The "phases" referred to here simply refer to filtered power (or perhaps switched power). It is a way for manufacturers to try and make their board sound better than other boards. Show me a sine diagram or a white paper on 8 or 16 phase power, and then I may believe it. Either way, the power source is still out of a wall socket, single phase, thru the power supply, single phase, and onto the mobo, single phase. Whatever switching or filtering happens on the mobo, the power is still truly only single phase. If you don't believe me, put the board on an oscilloscope.

I suspect this is why you don't see anything to back up the claims of 4, 6, 8, or 16 phase power on the manufacturer's sites. It's much like saying a 6-bladed razor provides a smoother shave than a 2-bladed one. And then you have those razors that VIBRATE, which are supposed to provide an even more close shave. Believe that? Feel free. But again, it's mostly marketing hype, IMHO.

BTW, from my reading, the only difference I can find between "8 & 16-phase power" is phase shifting. No real benefit, no additional filtering taking place.
Yep, apparently you misunderstood the term "phase", it's about filtering (please don't blame me, this is just a convention in the mb industry :)). If you are interested in how mb manufacturers advertise "phase" power design, take a look at, for example, this article (http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2589&p=2). And, yep, every rational PC enthusiast knows that 8 vs 16 phase design is a marketing hype. For my part I usually recommend to forget it; 4-6 "phase" design is just enough.

renethx

02-25-09, 02:43 AM

renethx

02-25-09, 02:47 AM

where did u find antec fusion remote for $143?
Here (http://www.provantage.com/antec-fusionremoteblack~7ANTG053.htm) (this retailer is reliable).

hotwell

02-25-09, 03:00 AM

provantage looks promising. shipping is $14.45. do they charge tax for california?
if no tax, the total price is $157.62

renethx

02-25-09, 03:19 AM

provantage looks promising. shipping is $14.45. do they charge tax for california?
if no tax, the total price is $157.62
Tax is charged on orders only within Ohio, I guess.

david.tickle

02-25-09, 03:59 AM

1. In general you may have better experience with Radeon HD 4670 than GMA X4500HD in video playback. You can try GMA X4500HD before buying a discrete card anyway.

2. Intel CPU retail box (not OEM) comes with a cooler. You can try it first before deciding to buy a third-party cooler.

3. Intel chipset supports RAID 1 (and 0, 10, 5). Personally I prefer a backup solution to RAID 1.

Thanks again.

Video quality is important to me, so a discrete card sounds like a sensible option. Only difficulty is I'm having trouble locally sourcing the HIS H467QT512P or H485QT512P. Would you see any issues with substituting these for equivalent ASUS cards, say, EAH4670/DI/512M or EAH4850/HTDI/512M? Would I still get 6/8 PCM audio (as described in the systems feature comparison chard) over a single HDMI cable connected to the video card?

renethx

02-25-09, 04:11 AM

Thanks again.

Video quality is important to me, so a discrete card sounds like a sensible option. Only difficulty is I'm having trouble locally sourcing the HIS H467QT512P or H485QT512P. Would you see any issues with substituting these for equivalent ASUS cards, say, EAH4670/DI/512M or EAH4850/HTDI/512M? Would I still get 6/8 PCM audio (as described in the systems feature comparison chard) over a single HDMI cable connected to the video card?
I don't recommend ASUS EAH4670/DI/512M because of louder fan noise (many users replaced the stock fan with Zalman VF900 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118001)). EAH4850/HTDI/512M is not good either for the same reason. Can you get SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102818)? It's very quiet.

Yes, you get 6/8 LPCM over HDMI from any HD 4xxx card (with the ATI proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter in case the card lacks a native HDMI port).

david.tickle

02-25-09, 06:58 AM

I don't recommend ASUS EAH4670/DI/512M because of louder fan noise (many users replaced the stock fan with Zalman VF900 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118001)). EAH4850/HTDI/512M is not good either for the same reason. Can you get SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102818)? It's very quiet.

Yes, you get 7/8 LPCM over HDMI from any HD 4xxx card (with the ATI proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter in case the card lacks a native HDMI port).

Good to know. The Asus cards don't seem worth the hassle.

Thanks again for a great guide.

andysr

02-25-09, 10:00 AM

I have been watching this forum for years and am only now taking the plunge with first build and first post.

I am following Renethx's recommendations with a mix and match between low and mid ATX, Intel/Nvidia system. Problem is that it appears the ZEROtherm BTF90 is no longer available.

I bought an Intel Dual core 8400 socket 775 processor.

Help with a proper fan?

molly

02-25-09, 10:04 AM

Hi

Just started building my first HTPC. I have a problem with the BFT90 fan, I started by peeling back the adhesive paper from the backing plate but didn't realise I taken both layers away. After putting the plate down I don’t know which side the adhesive sticker sits? Does the backing plate sit, so the screw holes sit inside the holes in the motherboard? I wanted to make sure I have it the correct way round.

Also which way should I place the fan on the heat sink? Should the fan be facing the back of the HTPC?

Many thanks

APorter

02-25-09, 11:10 AM

It's time to update my HTPC as my motherboard has bite the dust. I need some help as I haven't been keeping up on all the new hardware and I hope to reuse some of the hardware. I use the HTPC for music/movies/OTA HD/web.

Old System:
AMD Athlon 64 3200+ with zalman cooler (replace)
Gigabyte GA-K8N Ultra 9 (replace)
Nvidia Geforce 6600 (?)
Fusion HDTV5 (keep)
WinTv (keep)
Seasonic 350W (keep)
Silverstone LC17 (keep)
Seagate 400gb HD (keep)
WD 360gb HD Sata (keep)

New Replacements:
Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4 or Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3
Phenom II X3 710 HDX710WFGIBOX 2.6ghz
LG Black Bluray-HD DVD Drive (future use)
WD Green 500gb Hard drive

Do I need a new video card? HTPC will be connected to a Pioneer Elite Receiver.

Thanks

Speqtre

02-25-09, 11:29 AM

notslow

02-25-09, 02:52 PM

Crysis? Depending on resolution and settings, you might want to go with HD 4870 1GB (here and here). But you should expect +50W at idle compared with Save Power mode of 9800 GT + nForce 750a SLI.

Okay, so back to a pricier card, LOL! Darn those video previews of Crysis. I'm not a big game nut. I got an xbox and only played Halo 1-2, got an Xbox 360 and have only played Fallout 3, Halo 3. Crysis may be my only PC game, LOL or I may dump the 360.

So the 4870 1GB sounds like a real power hog. Is there any way to shut it down when not gaming? Also will it fit in the GD01B-R or HD160plus?

Thanks again,
Will

najames

02-25-09, 03:48 PM

Rene, can you comment on this board, and whether it's a decent value?

BIOSTAR TA790GX XE (http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/t-series/introduction.php?S_ID=375) It's now available at the 'Egg for $95. It's mATX,790GX/SB750, 128MB Sideport, Radeon 3300HD. Where on the pg 85 chart would this slot in, if anywhere?

Thanks!

I'm not Rene, but there are a couple things I'd consider about that board.
1) there is no optical or coaxial out
2) the x1 slot is on the side of the video card slot that would get blocked if you added a 2-slot wide card.
3) 888 audio could be better (889a?)

Sideport doesn't seem to make any difference in what I read. I think its speed is slightly faster than 780G.

However, I have a Biostar TA690G and it has been the best board I have ever owned. No matter what settings I choose, it just seems to work. It has a 3600+ CPU overclocked slightly and undervolted, it just runs.

renethx

02-25-09, 05:45 PM

renethx

02-25-09, 05:53 PM

New Replacements:
Gigabyte GA-MA790X-UD4 or Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3
Phenom II X3 710 HDX710WFGIBOX 2.6ghz
LG Black Bluray-HD DVD Drive (future use)
WD Green 500gb Hard drive

Do I need a new video card? HTPC will be connected to a Pioneer Elite Receiver.
For GA-MA780G-UD3H, you don't need a graphics card, but had better use it for better video playback performance. E.g. HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670.

You need DDR2 SDRAM memory modules.

renethx

02-25-09, 06:09 PM

Rene, can you comment on this board, and whether it's a decent value?

BIOSTAR TA790GX XE (http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/t-series/introduction.php?S_ID=375) It's now available at the 'Egg for $95. It's mATX,790GX/SB750, 128MB Sideport, Radeon 3300HD. Where on the pg 85 chart would this slot in, if anywhere?

Thanks!
I thinks this is a pretty good board. As compared with the popular board GIGABYTE GA-MA78GPM-DS2H ($95, AMD 780G with SidePort memory),

Pros of TA790GX XE

- Higher graphics core 700MHz (vs 500MHz)
- Newer SB750 (vs SB700): support for RAID 5, better OC

Pros of GA-MA78GPM-DS2H

- SidePort memory is DDR3
- Better onboard audio ALC889A with Dolby Home Theater
- Optical S/PDIF port and eSATA port in the rear panel
- IEEE 1394
- A 2-slot graphics card does not block the only PCIe x1 slot.

But these differences may not be important depending on your usage. (For example, if you use a Radeon HD 4xxx card with HDMI audio, those features of the onboard video/audio are useless.)

Threxx

02-25-09, 06:14 PM

Should be good.

I guess what I wasn't sure about is that in your comparison chart there's a lot of things that the ATI 3000 series cards won't do, but it appears you were referring to the PCI-E cards, not the IGPs... so do those limitations still apply to the IGPs?

Thanks

I'm referring to this one BTW (so you don't have to click back to see)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131366

renethx

02-25-09, 06:41 PM

So the 4870 1GB sounds like a real power hog. Is there any way to shut it down when not gaming? Also will it fit in the GD01B-R or HD160plus?
No, there is no way to shut down HD 4870. It fits GD01 and HD 160 Plus. But you will lose one HDD space with GD01 (because of PCIe power connector). Radeon HD 4850 may be a good compromise in price/performance/power (-30W at idle). If you go with Radeon, then you'd better choose GA-MA790GP-UD4H or DS4H (just for better compatibility with onboard video, easier driver maintenance).

renethx

02-25-09, 06:47 PM

I guess what I wasn't sure about is that in your comparison chart there's a lot of things that the ATI 3000 series cards won't do, but it appears you were referring to the PCI-E cards, not the IGPs... so do those limitations still apply to the IGPs?
HD 3300 is weak in video playback compared with a good discrete card such as HD 4670, and lacks 7.1 HDMI audio.

rhinogooner

02-25-09, 06:53 PM

For moderate gaming performance (as well as the other tasks you mentioned), a mid-range system is good. In particular:

- MicroATX mid-range Intel/Intel system: 1xPCIe+1xPCI, 1xDVD+3xHDD (or 2xDVD+2xHDD)
- ATX mid-range Intel/Intel system: 2xPCIe+2xPCI+1xPCIe x8, 1xDVD+5xHDD

One For All URC-8910 should be good and compatible with the built-in IR receiver.

For BD (and HD-DVD) playback, add a BD drive:

- LG GGC-H20L

For ATCS OTA, add

- Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 PCIe x1 card

For wireless-n,

- D-Link DGL-4500 or TRENDnet TEW-633GR IEEE802.11n router (if you don't have a router yet)
- ENCORE ENLWI-N 802.11n Wireless PCI Adapter (there are many good cards, this one is the cheapest)

OS

- Vista 32-bit Home Premium (or Ultimate)

I don't know about online programming guide.

Thanks again ReneTHX.

I have a few elementary questions that I'd like to understand.

1. Do I need any special hardware or software to attain 7.1 surround sound in my HTPC build? And do the speakers connect directly to the HTPC?

2. Do you recommend 32 bit Vista over 64 bit? If so, can you explain why?

3. I was browsing the Radeon 4670 graphics card on NewEgg. You recommend the HIS H467QT512P for one of the builds on page 85. Obviously there are many options for the Radeon 4670 to choose from. Is there a particular reason you recommend the one from HIS? Also, is it advantageous to have an HDMI input on the graphics card to plug into the HDMI on the HDTV?

Just to mention, regarding a wireless N router. I own one already. It's the Linksys Wireless N Gigabit Router. Are there any issues with this one?

notslow

02-25-09, 07:06 PM

No, there is no way to shut down HD 4870. It fits GD01 and HD 160 Plus. But you will lose one HDD space with GD01 (because of PCIe power connector). Radeon HD 4850 may be a good compromise in price/performance/power (-30W at idle). If you go with Radeon, then you'd better choose GA-MA790GP-UD4H or DS4H (just for better compatibility with onboard video, easier driver maintenance).

What do you prefer, Radeon or Nvidia?

renethx

02-25-09, 07:13 PM

Thanks again ReneTHX.

I have a few elementary questions that I'd like to understand.

1. Do I need any special hardware or software to attain 7.1 surround sound in my HTPC build? And do the speakers connect directly to the HTPC?

2. Do you recommend 32 bit Vista over 64 bit? If so, can you explain why?

3. I was browsing the Radeon 4670 graphics card on NewEgg. You recommend the HIS H467QT512P for one of the builds on page 85. Obviously there are many options for the Radeon 4670 to choose from. Is there a particular reason you recommend the one from HIS? Also, is it advantageous to have an HDMI input on the graphics card to plug into the HDMI on the HDTV?

Just to mention, regarding a wireless N router. I own one already. It's the Linksys Wireless N Gigabit Router. Are there any issues with this one?
1. The graphics card supports video+7.1 PCM over HDMI. You just need to install proper drivers. Do you have a receiver supporting HDMI? In order to get full quality of 7.1 audio, you will need a HDMI receiver in addition to a 7.1 speaker system. If your speakers are powered, then you can connect them to the PC (analog or S/PDIF). Otherwise you can't.

2. In general 32-bit is easier for HTPC because there are more codecs available for 32-bit.

3. HIS is simply the best 4670 card in terms of price/performance/quietness/power consumption. Don't connect HDMI directly into HDTV, you can't get 7.1 sound. The correct connection for 7.1 sound is:

HD 4670 -> (via HDMI) receiver -> display and 7.1 speakers

Linksys should be fine.

renethx

02-25-09, 07:19 PM

What do you prefer, Radeon or Nvidia?
If I were you, looking for an ATX high-end system, then I would choose either Inte/Intel (lacks IGP) or AMD/AMD (both systems use HIS HD 4850).

rhinogooner

02-25-09, 07:46 PM

1. The graphics card supports video+7.1 PCM over HDMI. You just need to install proper drivers. Do you have a receiver supporting HDMI? In order to get full quality of 7.1 audio, you will need a HDMI receiver in addition to a 7.1 speaker system. If your speakers are powered, then you can connect them to the PC (analog or S/PDIF). Otherwise you can't.

2. In general 32-bit is easier for HTPC because there are more codecs available for 32-bit.

3. HIS is simply the best 4670 card in terms of price/performance/quietness/power consumption. Don't connect HDMI directly into HDTV, you can't get 7.1 sound. The correct connection for 7.1 sound is:

HD 4670 -> (via HDMI) receiver -> display and 7.1 speakers

Linksys should be fine.

I currently have an Onkyo 5.1 "home theatre in a box" system. No HDMI input on the receiver. I was hoping I could just buy two more speakers and the HTPC would turn it into a 7.1 system. I guess that shows my naivety :D So I would need to keep my receiver connected to my HDTV in order to have surround sound even with an HTPC?

32 bit it is.

I guess I will have to upgrade my receiver to HDMI if I want to connect an HTPC to it.

By the way, the HIS H467QT512P is $70 with $10 rebate on NewEgg right now. Or combine with the Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 for $185.

First thing I need to do is decide on a case....

renethx

02-25-09, 08:02 PM

I currently have an Onkyo 5.1 "home theatre in a box" system. No HDMI input on the receiver. I was hoping I could just buy two more speakers and the HTPC would turn it into a 7.1 system. I guess that shows my naivety :D So I would need to keep my receiver connected to my HDTV in order to have surround sound even with an HTPC?
If your receiver supports 7.1 speakers (i.e. has surround rear speaker terminals) and Dolby Pro Logic IIx/DTS Neo:6, then you can use S/PDIF (5.1 sound) and expand it to 7.1. Otherwise you are limited to 5.1.

rhinogooner

02-25-09, 08:24 PM

If your receiver supports 7.1 speakers (i.e. has surround rear speaker terminals) and Dolby Pro Logic IIx/DTS Neo:6, then you can use S/PDIF (5.1 sound) and expand it to 7.1. Otherwise you are limited to 5.1.

Nope. My receiver is only 5.1. No worries. It's all I need at this time.

One last question for tonight (before my brain overloads :confused:). I'm leaning towards your Mid-range ATX build. Can I build this with 4GB of RAM, say A-Data ADQVE1B16K, without any compatibility issues or compromises? And, are there any other cases you would recommend for this build aside from the Antec Fusion Remote Max?

I guess that is two questions :o But seriously, your assistance is very much appreciated ReneTHX. Thanks for dumbing this down for me to grasp.

renethx

02-25-09, 08:32 PM

Does the backing plate sit, so the screw holes sit inside the holes in the motherboard? I wanted to make sure I have it the correct way round.

Also which way should I place the fan on the heat sink? Should the fan be facing the back of the HTPC?

Many thanks
Yes, the screw holes should sit inside the holes of the mb.

You can place the fan in either direction depeding on the case, without much difference in cooling.

renethx

02-25-09, 08:37 PM

I'm leaning towards your Mid-range ATX build. Can I build this with 4GB of RAM, say A-Data ADQVE1B16K, without any compatibility issues or compromises? And, are there any other cases you would recommend for this build aside from the Antec Fusion Remote Max?

I guess that is two questions :o But seriously, your assistance is very much appreciated ReneTHX. Thanks for dumbing this down for me to grasp.
Yes, ADQVE1B16K works with any mb I used. No compromise, except for some games; DDR2-1066 could increase gaming performance by a few percent. You can use SilverStone LC17, LC20, GD01 etc. or Zalman HD 160 Plus. There are many other choices.

hotwell

02-26-09, 05:46 AM

Tax is charged on orders only within Ohio, I guess.

thanks for the links and answers. thumbs up

rhinogooner

02-26-09, 09:22 AM

Yes, ADQVE1B16K works with any mb I used. No compromise, except for some games; DDR2-1066 could increase gaming performance by a few percent.

I attempted to search for A-Data DDR2-1066 RAM online to get a feel for the price, but couldn't find it.

Do you know where I can buy this? Or is there another brand that you think highly of and is compatible with the Mid-range ATX build on page 85?

renethx

02-26-09, 09:55 AM

I attempted to search for A-Data DDR2-1066 RAM online to get a feel for the price, but couldn't find it.

Do you know where I can buy this? Or is there another brand that you think highly of and is compatible with the Mid-range ATX build on page 85?
Choose this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166).

tighr

02-26-09, 10:09 AM

Choose this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166).
For a low-end AMD/AMD, any reason not to get the 2x2GB Gskill DDR2 800 over the 1066?

jim tressler

02-26-09, 10:09 AM

provantage is an ohio company - so if you ship to ohio they charge tax. We use them all the time - never a problem. Prices are decent.

jim

provantage looks promising. shipping is $14.45. do they charge tax for california?
if no tax, the total price is $157.62

jdenault

02-26-09, 10:18 AM

just wanted to say thanks for this guide. put together a a low-end system with the integrated 9400 mb, antec case (wow is that HD light bright) and a HDhomerun all connected to a new sony 1080p set. looks fantastic and the build was a breeze. thanks reneth for this guide, made everything much easier.

rhinogooner

02-26-09, 10:19 AM

Choose this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166).

Good stuff! Thanks ReneTHX!

renethx

02-26-09, 10:34 AM

For a low-end AMD/AMD, any reason not to get the 2x2GB Gskill DDR2 800 over the 1066?
Memory speed is almost immaterial for video playback. Choose whatever you like, DDR2-800 or DDR2-1066. :)

lubmar

02-26-09, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by renethx

HD 3300 is weak in video playback compared with a good discrete card such as HD 4670, and lacks 7.1 HDMI audio.

if i do not care about "7.1 HDMI audio", which on board video would you suggest - 3300 or 8300 ?

thanks

renethx

02-26-09, 11:00 AM

if i do not care about "7.1 HDMI audio", which on board video would you suggest - 3300 or 8300 ?
HD 3300 with an AM2+/AM3 processor.

jim tressler

02-26-09, 01:21 PM

scythe ninja mini - I run mine with no fan and the temps barley crack 50 under 1080p - non dvxa playback. Typical idle temp is about 39-40

I have been watching this forum for years and am only now taking the plunge with first build and first post.

I am following Renethx's recommendations with a mix and match between low and mid ATX, Intel/Nvidia system. Problem is that it appears the ZEROtherm BTF90 is no longer available.

I bought an Intel Dual core 8400 socket 775 processor.

Help with a proper fan?

ronnie_jackson

02-26-09, 02:12 PM

rhinogooner

02-26-09, 03:25 PM

ReneTHX, did you modify this build today? I thought the fan for this build was the Zerotherm BTF90. But I'm seeing the Xigmatek HDT-SD964 there now.

Maybe my recollection is off.

notslow

02-26-09, 04:01 PM

ronnie_jackson

02-26-09, 04:13 PM

ReneTHX, did you modify this build today? I thought the fan for this build was the Zerotherm BTF90. But I'm seeing the Xigmatek HDT-SD964 there now.

Maybe my recollection is off.

Yes, it looks like there has been some updates. It indeed was the BTF90 a few days ago. Several Posts above this one Jim Tressler comments that the BTF90 is no longer available.

Ronnie

jnm4lsu

02-26-09, 04:50 PM

:confused:Can I use both SPDIF and the analog out at the same time. I am trying to stream internet radio to two different AV receivers. I have SPDIF working but can't get pc speakers or analog audio out to work. I was working earlier and SPDIF wasn't but now is the opposite, SPDIF works and analog doesn't.
I can't remember what I changed (I know I'm an idiot) and can't seem to replicate it. Can someone tell me how to configure the audio.

running GA-EP45-UD3P, q9300 and ATI 3870

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

renethx

02-26-09, 11:45 PM

The two suggested Remotes and IR systems for an HTPC are:

Microsoft Remote Control and Receiver for WMC
Antec Multimedia Station Basic

What are the pros and cons of one over the other? Does one have more capability than the other? Is one preferred over the other?
Antec Multimedia Station Basic is placed in an empty external 3.5" drive bay of the case (if your case has only 5.25" external bays, you will need an adapter), while MS IR receiver is an external USB device and you have to place it somewhere outside the case. Antec includes a power adapter that makes it possible to power on/off the system remotely (MS is sleep/wakeup only) and comes with extra software, but I am not sure of its usefulness.

renethx

02-26-09, 11:48 PM

ReneTHX, did you modify this build today? I thought the fan for this build was the Zerotherm BTF90. But I'm seeing the Xigmatek HDT-SD964 there now.

Maybe my recollection is off.
ZEROtherm BTF90 is not available in US right now. If you have it already, you can use it.

renethx

02-27-09, 12:29 AM

Okay, hope this system works. I’m hoping to start ordering stuff today. I decided to go ahead and get the better graphics card, I want to have plenty of power now so that it will still be okay in a few years.
Any other hardware conflicts I may be missing? I want this to be a fairly low maintenance system. Do the components look good for reliability, longevity? Like I said before, I want this system to hold its own for 4-5 years without major upgrades. That may sound ridiculous in the computer realm :)

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 810 175.99

CPU Cooler: XIGMATEK HDT-SD964 22.99

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX 139.00

Memory: OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 OCZ2RPR10664GK 45.99
Or OCZ Platinum 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 Dual OCZ2P10664GK 43.99
if there is a fitment issue with the reaper
Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 215.00

HDD: WD740ADFD for OS or WD6400AAKS which would be better? 75-100.00
4 WD10EACS (already have)

LG GGC-H20L BD drive (already have)

PSU: Enermax Modu82+ 625W 159.99

Case: GD01B-R 129.99 + 30.00 for IR receiver 160.00
or ZALMAN Black Aluminum HD160Plus (really like the 650, but pricey) 279.99

total cost: 1009-1154.00 A bit high than my budget, not looking good for the Zalman case.

OS: Vista
Remote: Harmony One
Keyboard: DiNovo Edge (already have)
Should be good except for:

- I am not 100% sure if the memory modules you chose work with CPU/MB stably at 1066MHz.
- Xigmatek cooler can be oriented only toward the side of the case (specific to AMD processors). This is no problem for GD01, but not good for HD160 Plus (as PSU blocks airflow; use CNPS9500A instead).
- I prefer WD6400AAKS in terms of noise and price/performance.
- You could go with Corsair TX650W (CMPSU-650TX) if you want to save money (only $70 at Provantage (http://www.provantage.com/corsair-memory-cmpsu-650tx~7CSMC05F.htm)). This unit gets louder than MODU82+ over 350W output, but you will rarely reach 350W (hopefully). Check SPCR review (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article813-page5.html) (TX650W is one of the recommended PSUs (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article699-page1.html)).
- GD01B is a bit tight if you use HD 4870 and you will lose one or two HDD space.

renethx

02-27-09, 12:36 AM

:confused:Can I use both SPDIF and the analog out at the same time.
You can use only one of S/PDIF and analog at a time. Under Vista, you can switch between them in Sound dialog box from Control Panel.

notslow

02-27-09, 03:45 AM

renethx

02-27-09, 04:58 AM

I checked Gigabyte’s compatibility list. They don’t have a lot listed under 1066 for this board. Any reason to think it wouldn’t work? What would you recommend?
How about this cooler? Specs look the same besides color. http://www.zalman.co.kr/ENG/product/Product_Read.asp?Idx=162
WD6400AAKS it is
I prefer the modular PSU, so I think I’ll stick with the Enermax
Sounds like a good reason to get the Zalman case. I think I’ll be happier with it as it has always been the one I wanted. I will just have to stop eating sushi for a few months :(
One way to see compatibility is read actual user reviews (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813128352) (this is the older DS4H, but still helpful). Several people use G.Skill F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166), OCZ, Patriot, Mushkin DDR2-1066 successfully.

CNPS9500 AM2 should be good, in particular its color matches the mb heatsink. :)

notslow

02-27-09, 02:15 PM

One way to see compatibility is read actual user reviews (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813128352) (this is the older DS4H, but still helpful). Several people use G.Skill F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166), OCZ, Patriot, Mushkin DDR2-1066 successfully.

CNPS9500 AM2 should be good, in particular its color matches the mb heatsink. :)

Oops, I got caught color coordinating, copper is so last year, LOL! Seriously the CNPS9500A isn't available at newegg and the CNPS9500 seems to be a little cheaper. I do like the idea of everything matching though :)

I asked OCZ and they said memory and board are completely compatible. Not sure how reliable that is, I'm sure they want me to buy their product.
I also read tons of reviews on every component on my list. Seems that 10% of the time this stuff is all junk :rolleyes:

I do get a kick out of the reviews where people say they will never use brand X again because of an issue and brand Y is better, then you see on brand Y reviews there are people saying the same thing in reverse. No one company makes perfect product all the time.

I did some google searches and found some people listing their systems with this memory and board, And a few listing Phenom processors with the memory, though not the 810, mostly 920s. I think I'll give it a go. If anything goes wrong with the system, I'll know where to look first :p

Thanks, Will

tchen24

02-27-09, 03:38 PM

Guys,

I do not know where to post this. But I have completed the build on my mid range Micro-ATX (Intel/Nvidia). Blu-ray plays fine with good resolution and sound.

But I can not get sound from my live TV from the TV tuner card. I have the following:

1. Intel/Nvidia Micro-ATX Mid-range HTPC
2. Bose Lifestyle 25 (with RCA plugs (red and white)).
3. Hauppauge TV tuner HVR1600.

Here is my connection:

1. HTPC to TV (DVI/HDMI cable)
2. Sound card output center to Bose receiver.
3. TV cable box out toTV tuner hauppauge S-video and then connect out to TV.
4. Sound from the TV cable to sound card input i/o analog plug.

But there is no sound from the live TV! What is wrong?

Dephcon

02-27-09, 04:43 PM

HD 3300 with an AM2+/AM3 processor.

Any reason why you'd want to go ATI over Nvidia now that with the new drivers all the 8xxx+ cards and IGPs can use DXVA to decode any material regardless of DXVA reference frame compliance.

I just got the new drivers myself and my GT260 can decode all of my bastard L5.1 encodes that my 780G can't.

SuperTuna

02-27-09, 05:53 PM

notslow

02-27-09, 06:49 PM

Man - this thread makes a good read almost every day :) I just noticed that the price on a 4850x2 2GB isn't that bad but the problem is that everyone says it's REALLY long - longer than a 4870 card and I just need to know if anyone can find me the case length of a Zalman 160 plus or if it'll just fit.

Again, renethx and others are putting out awesome information and one of these days I'll be able to put a rig together lol.

Renethx will know for sure, but here is a quote from a reply to me that might give you an idea.
Hope this helps :)

GTX 260 (10.5" long) is just too large for most HTPC cases. LC03B-V looks good for GTX 260, but the case requires a parallel port for VFD and most current mbs lack it. GD01B and Zalman HD160 are no good. LC17B/LC20B and Antec Fusion Remote Max are good if you remove one of the two HDD cages, but then you loose 3 (or 2) HDD space. I recommend Radeon HD 4870 instead of GTX 260 (as powerful as GTX 260, but short enough [9.5"] for most HTPC cases). If you prefer NVIDIA, you'd better choose GeForce 9800 GT (9" long) although you have to sacrifice 3D performance (all the GeForce cards higher than 9800 GT are 10.5" long). BTW the mb's width is 9.6".

renethx

02-27-09, 08:19 PM

Oops, I got caught color coordinating, copper is so last year, LOL! Seriously the CNPS9500A isn't available at newegg and the CNPS9500 seems to be a little cheaper. I do like the idea of everything matching though :)
Somehow CNPS9500A LED is listed as ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118223) (the model name on the box is CNPS9500A LED).

renethx

02-27-09, 08:30 PM

Any reason why you'd want to go ATI over Nvidia now that with the new drivers all the 8xxx+ cards and IGPs can use DXVA to decode any material regardless of DXVA reference frame compliance.
As for the original question 3300 vs. 8300 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15918450#post15918450), 8300 is poorer in post-processing (in both HD and SD). But if your greatest concern is low CPU usage, then 8300 could be your choice.

notslow

02-27-09, 10:43 PM

Somehow CNPS9500A LED is listed as ZALMAN 9500A 92mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118223) (the model name on the box is CNPS9500A LED).

Doh, That's why I didn't find it. Oh well, I already ordered the black one. Only difference seems to be the color for my application. Looks like the CNPS9500A LED has mounting hardware for Intel included.

davegod75

02-28-09, 10:24 AM

jxo

02-28-09, 11:21 AM

renethx

02-28-09, 11:59 AM

My build:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11249846
Good, except for a couple of points:

- AVerTV Combo might be a better choice (better integration in VMC for QAM)
- You don't need and can't use Scythe SY124010L with Ninja Mini at the same time unless you go with fanless.
- You can buy a twice faster memory A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 with +$3.

renethx

02-28-09, 12:08 PM

Had to recently replace a bad mobo in my dedicated HTPC and would like to upgrade from my GeForce 6600gt.

current hardware:
ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe AM2+/AM2 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor
Zalman HD 160 case (no HD or BluRay)

I use TheaterTek for SD DVD playback only-- the high def stuff is played on dedicated players. Andrew over at TT suggested sticking with GeForce-- stating that 8800gt or 9800gtx cards should show an improvement over the 6600.

Any specific model recommendations? some of the GTX cards look like they may be a little oversized. I have lost track of the playback quality of these cards and the differences between the GT, GTX and other designations. Noise level is a consideration in my setup.

thanks in advance and also appreciate all the hard work that went into this thread-- great work.
Unless you play games, GeForce 9500 GT or GeForce 9600 GT is enough. A higher model could do better post-processing, but so far I have not found any advantage in video playback. 8800GT (65nm) was replaced by 9800GT (55nm). 9800 GTX is too long for your case. A couple of quiet cards are:

- ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M
- ASUS EN9600GT/HTDI/512M
- ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M

Needless to say 9500 GT consumes the least power (-15W to -20W at video playback compared with 9600/9800 GT).

davegod75

02-28-09, 12:41 PM

Good, except for a couple of points:

- AVerTV Combo might be a better choice (better integration in VMC for QAM)
- You don't need and can't use Scythe SY124010L with Ninja Mini at the same time unless you go with fanless.
- You can buy a twice faster memory A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 with +$3.

Thanks

1. any more info on the avertv combo? what is VMC?
2. the Scythe SY124010L is for the Northbridge as I hear it gets really hot. do I need it? or is this a better silent choice http://www.enzotechnology.com/cnb_r1.htm#
3. ram updated. That was an oversight.

One more ? Would I loose anything by going with this CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116038

I like the lower power aspect of it.

Danke

renethx

02-28-09, 12:49 PM

Thanks

1. any more info on the avertv combo? what is VMC?
2. the Scythe SY124010L is for the Northbridge as I hear it gets really hot. do I need it? or is this a better silent choice http://www.enzotechnology.com/cnb_r1.htm#
3. ram updated. That was an oversight.

One more ? Would I loose anything by going with this CPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116038

I like the lower power aspect of it.

Danke
1. HDTV PC Tuner Guide (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/index.html) is a good guide of TV tuners (which model to choose etc.). VMC is Windows Media Center integrated in Windows Vista Home Premium/Ultimate.

2. No. Unless you play games for a long time, you don't need a fan. The 80mm fan of Ninja Mini is effectively cooling down NB (the fan should sit on the top of NB; that's the reason why you can't attach another fan).

Stay away from a single-core processor. Penium DC is cool enough.

jdcrox

02-28-09, 03:13 PM

Hi,

I am looking for some comments on my first HTPC build.

Wants/Needs/Desires:
1. replace my Tivo, appletv, and dvd player
2. I don't want to hear my HTPC when i'm on the couch!!!!
3. <$500 (lower the better, w/o sacrificing on the 1 and 2 + uses below

Equipment/Service I have:
1. 32" sony Wega TV
2. Panasonic SA-XR55 digital receiver
3. Polk bookshelf speakers
4. Basic cable (no box)
5. Will use vista or windows 7 MCE.

Uses:
1. Play music (mp3) and movies (avi, DVDs)
2. Internet TV?
3. DVR (like my TiVO
4. Podcasts

Future:
1. Move to digital cable
2. 42" LCD TV with HDMI and all that fancy stuff

My build:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=11249846
I would go with a retail DVD drive from Newegg, their OEM packaging is horrible. I just got the same drive last week, and it came with one layer of bubble wrap, and a few peanuts tossed in a box. It lasted one day. I ordered an Asus retail version for $5 more. Watch the 'egg for oem hardrives also. Once again lots and lots of DOA's.

COMMODORE64

03-01-09, 01:21 AM

audit13

03-01-09, 01:27 AM

I now have...

Lian-Li PC-05B case
Intel E7300 with OEM cooling
Asus P5QL-EM motherboard
Sapphire ATI 4350 - ( i will replace this with 9800GT soon enough )

2x 1GB Kingston HyperX DDR2-800
( Hard drive don't matter at this moment ) All i can use is 80GB PATA and Supermulti LG DVD BURNER SATA

Now I have a few question. I'm new to HTPC, so be gentle with me.

Will any of this be sufficient for a low-end system that can handle anything blu-ray can throw at? Will I have any hiccups? Anything that I should know of?

Will 4350 be able to do a good job on encoding the videos?

Many thanks..

Edited = I mean anything related to decoding/encoding/playback and something related to HTPC things! Sorry.
I'm using a much lower-end cpu (e2140 @ stock speed) with an Ati 4550 @ 1080p. I can play Blu-ray movies from the original disk or my hard drive with no problems and 5.1 multichannel lpcm sound.

COMMODORE64

03-01-09, 03:09 AM

How can i tell if my config will be able to run without problems? What about the uncompressed video and sounds over HDMI? Multichannel audio or something?

i was wondering if 4350 will do a good job on it at 1080p and higher?

Will the blu-ray do a full potenial, like 100% good job on streaming videos?

p.s. sorry for poor english.

renethx

03-01-09, 03:31 AM

I now have...

Lian-Li PC-05B case
Intel E7300 with OEM cooling
Asus P5QL-EM motherboard
Sapphire ATI 4350 - ( i will replace this with 9800GT soon enough )

2x 1GB Kingston HyperX DDR2-800
( Hard drive don't matter at this moment ) All i can use is 80GB PATA and Supermulti LG DVD BURNER SATA

Now I have a few question. I'm new to HTPC, so be gentle with me.

Will any of this be sufficient for a low-end system that can handle anything blu-ray can throw at? Will I have any hiccups? Anything that I should know of?

Will 4350 be able to do a good job on encoding the videos?

Many thanks..

Edited = I mean anything related to decoding/encoding/playback and something related to HTPC things! Sorry.
HD 4350 can handle BD movies fine with 7.1 HDMI audio. The only weak point is post-processing (HD/SD interlaced contents). HD 4550 or higher is recommended for better post-processing.

If you mean converting, for example, MPEG-2 to H.264, by "encoding", then CPU handles this task (right now), and Core 2 Duo E7xxx is moderately good.

AngelaC

03-01-09, 04:20 AM

Hey guys!
Well here is my first attempt at making a HTPC. I have done a little research online but there are still many questions. Well let’s start with my proposed setup and what I am trying to achieve. First I have attached a diagram of how my house will be connected in relation to the HTPC. All of the speakers in all the rooms will have access to the music library via the AV receiver/speaker selector/HTPC. I plan on using windows vista 32bit ultimate. I may need an extender for the PC in the kitchen from what I understand. I am using the Xbox 360 for the extender in the kid’s area.
I want to;
a. Record live HD Broadcast from my Comcast cable box to the HTPC hard drive
b. Record/backup media on all six terabytes and make It available on all three TV’s simultaneously (three different movies on three different TV’s at the same time.)
c. I want DTS-HD & Dolby True HD playback from the HTPC
d. I want audio and video via HDMI.
Below I have posted the parts that I plan on using on my HTPC.

Origen AE S21T touchscreen 12.1" htpc case - 17.12" w x 8.66" h x 15.35" d
Intel BOXDX58SO LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard -onboard 7.1 surround
Intel Core i7 920 2.66GHz (i 920)
VisionTek 900244 Radeon HD 4870 512MB 256-bit GDDR5
slysoft-any dvd
LG Black 6X Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive SATA Model
DVDFabHD Decrypter for backing up my blu-ray disc to the HTPC
Western Digital WD20EADS 2TB
Western Digital WD20EADS 2TB
Western Digital WD20EADS 2TB
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS (150gb for OS & Documents)
Gyration Media Center remote control
windows xp media center or vista ultimate
CORSAIR XMS3 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (6 gig ram ttl)
ASUS Xonar sound card HDAV1.3-can receive dolby tru-hd & dts via hdmi
Power supply Antec Quattro TPQ 1000 (1000 watts) SLI ready
Temperature Meter Very Important!
Keyboard wireless
Mouse wireless
Antec Twelve Hundred Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case
HDTV7 Dual Express

Now for the questions;
1.Which system is preferable?
a.Windows xp MCE 2005
b.Windows Vista Ultimate 32 bit
c. Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit

2.Which videocard is recommended for HDMI Dolby HD playback which will also give me 1080p?

3. Which sound card is recommended for the setup that I am doing?

4. Which TV tuner is recommended and what quantity for the simultaneous HD recorded media watching?

5. What do I need for Blu-ray media playback? I read that power DVD 8.0+ is required are there other options or is this the best option?

Thank you all for taking time to look over my thread. I appreciate any advice that you may have. 
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL420/7603129/21639583/356555740.jpg

ramsing

03-01-09, 10:19 AM

hi, just went thru this thread. very informative :) i've got most of my system down, except for a few questions

1. would a 256 bit or 128 bit graphics card be preferable? its either the HD4850 512MB (128bit) or the XFX HD4850 512MB with HDMI (256bit)? does it make a notable difference?

2. Does it make an difference in sound if there is a dedicated audio card on the mobo?

3. More RAM is good or no diff? I thought of going for 4GB, or its a mute point?

thanks a bunch

renethx

03-01-09, 10:36 AM

jakew1

03-01-09, 10:44 AM

need some help im buying 65'' mitsubishi dlp WD-65735 can i hook up my dell laptop to this tv laptop has vga port, if i can what will i need to do this. thank you

ramsing

03-01-09, 10:56 AM

1. HD4850 is 256 bit only.

2. If you are talking about analog, yes, a dedicated sound card is generally better.

3. For normal HTPC tasks, 2GB is generally good.

thanks renethx. so would there be a difference between 128 or 256bit? in terms of PQ and performance?

renethx

03-01-09, 11:00 AM

need some help im buying 65'' mitsubishi dlp WD-65735 can i hook up my dell laptop to this tv laptop has vga port, if i can what will i need to do this. thank you
As dlp has HDMI, component video, S-video, composite video in, if your laptop has the same type of connector (DVI is OK using DVI-HDMI adapter), you can use it. If your laptop has only VGA out, then you have to use a VGA to component video converter (pricey).

renethx

03-01-09, 11:02 AM

thanks renethx. so would there be a difference between 128 or 256bit? in terms of PQ and performance?
128 bit is good enough for video playback. For example, HD 4670 (excellent in video playback) is 128 bit.

jakew1

03-01-09, 11:04 AM

As dlp has HDMI, component video, S-video, composite video in, if your laptop has the same type of connector (DVI is OK using DVI-HDMI adapter), you can use it. If your laptop has only VGA out, then you have to use a VGA to component video converter (pricey).

thank you for replying, can you tell me what converter to get and what kind of cables will i need also my laptop only has a vga. thanks again

ramsing

03-01-09, 11:09 AM

thanks for the tips renethx. :) much appreciated.

renethx

03-01-09, 11:35 AM

thank you for replying, can you tell me what converter to get and what kind of cables will i need also my laptop only has a vga. thanks again
I am not familiar with this subject. Please read several threads in this forum (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.avsforum.com+VGA+component+video+convert er+laptop), or you can start your own thread.

jakew1

03-01-09, 11:41 AM

I am not familiar with this subject. Please read several threads in this forum (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.avsforum.com+VGA+component+video+convert er+laptop), or you can start your own thread.

thank you renethx.

COMMODORE64

03-01-09, 12:04 PM

HD 4350 can handle BD movies fine with 7.1 HDMI audio. The only weak point is post-processing (HD/SD interlaced contents). HD 4550 or higher is recommended for better post-processing.

If you mean converting, for example, MPEG-2 to H.264, by "encoding", then CPU handles this task (right now), and Core 2 Duo E7xxx is moderately good.

Sounds good. I'm curious about 9800GT's capability to do this, you know, DVI to HDMI, will that affect anything at all?

If not, what sound card is recommended to make the job easier? ( Stick to PCI-E 1X please )

About the hyprid power management, will that work with P5QL-EM's G43 chipset, if so, how? How can i have them to switch to low power when its not in use?

Thanks again, this forum is awesome!

miked5468

03-01-09, 12:05 PM

Hello....

Just wondering what the pro and cons were between the high end intel/intel and the intel/nvidia

Thanks for any info

Mike

renethx

03-01-09, 12:09 PM

Sounds good. I'm curious about 9800GT's capability to do this, you know, DVI to HDMI, will that affect anything at all?

If not, what sound card is recommended to make the job easier? ( Stick to PCI-E 1X please )

About the hyprid power management, will that work with P5QL-EM's G43 chipset, if so, how? How can i have them to switch to low power when its not in use?

Thanks again, this forum is awesome!
9800 GT does not have HD audio controller, it supports only S/PDIF pass-through from the onboard audio codec.

Currently Hybrid Power is supported by GeForce 8200/8300/nForce 750a/780a.

renethx

03-01-09, 12:14 PM

Hello....

Just wondering what the pro and cons were between the high end intel/intel and the intel/nvidia

Thanks for any info

Mike
HD 4850 is better than GeForce 9800 GT in 3D. HD 4850 supports HDMI audio natively, while 9800 GT is S/PDIF pass-through only; if you want multichannel LPCM audio, you need two cables as stated in the remark.

miked5468

03-01-09, 12:30 PM

renethx

03-01-09, 12:38 PM

Sounds like for me the best bet would be intel/intel. I don’t currently have a home surround sound system. Would I be able to get good sound out the high end intel/intel ? Using speakers like the bose companions?
If you are going to use onboard analog (common to the low-end to high-end systems)+PC speakers, you should expect mediocre sounds at best.

mslide

03-01-09, 01:00 PM

Using speakers like the bose companions?

I have an older version of those in my office. How they sound really depends on your definition of good sound. They are just computer speakers and nothing more. While they do sound better than most computer speakers they can't touch real speakers. For what little gaming I do in my office and background music, they're fine though. I wouldn't want to watch a movie while listening to those.

nitdawg

03-01-09, 04:16 PM

With the mini-ITX builds as described do I need any additional fans?

YukonJack

03-01-09, 07:43 PM

Alright, I have been considering building a HTPC, and want to do it right, but I am wondering whether I should be shaving some cost off this system. I only want to use it to stream internet radio (not a big deal in the end) and mostly just want a machine where I can store Blu-Rays and DVDs to play back on my system. This cost does not include the cost of the OS, the BluRay drive and the keyboard/mouse. Any thoughts anyone has I would surely appreciate:

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz Socket 775, $113.
* CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP, $38.
* Motherboard: Intel DG35EC (BOXDG35EC) Intel G35 chipset microATX, $85 (there are no overclocking or memory voltage options in BIOS).
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $25.
* Graphics Card: HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670, $70 (after rebate). An alternative is SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB (quieter at idle and video playback), $80 (after rebate).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX, $57 (after rebate).
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black, $143.

Greg

etcarroll

03-01-09, 09:23 PM

Greg -

You're good. Though you may need more disk space if you're going to rip a lot of BDs. About a year ago I built the then high end, non-gaming rig below for much the same as what you want to do. Then bought an E8400 cpu as an upgrade, and its still in its box almost a year later. When the ASUS XONAR card is ready, then I'll upgrade my MB and install the E8400, but in no hurry.

CPU: Core 2 Duo E2200 Socket 775, $194.
CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90, $30 (after rebate at Newegg.com).
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS4 Intel P35 chipset ATX, open box @ $80
Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $50 (after rebate at Newegg.com).
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon 2600XT

renethx

03-01-09, 11:12 PM

With the mini-ITX builds as described do I need any additional fans?
Depends on your system/CPU/GPU temeratures. Personally I would add a 120mm fan.

renethx

03-01-09, 11:21 PM

YukonJack

03-02-09, 12:00 AM

Thanks both of you for your responses. I will take a look at those options.

adiaconou

03-02-09, 12:49 AM

I'm new to HTPC stuff, and this is thread is a great resource but there is sooo much information to parse through. I've been looking through the recommended systems, but I'm not quite sure what suits my needs the best. Here is what my goal is:

I want to be able to record analogue and digital (HD) tv. It would be nice if I could record HD coming through my cable box, but I don't know if there are any tuner cards that allow you to do that yet. I would like to be able to record at least two things at once.

A motherboard with an HDMI port would be nice to have.

I will probably start with a 1TB hard drive, but I would like space for at least two hard drives in the case for upgrades.

I would like a blu-ray Dvd burner as well.

The audio will be through my TV so that is not a big concern now, but I will be using shared drives to play music/movies/etc.

I don't want the lowest end stuff, I want this system to be good for years and easily upgradable. My price threshold is 5-750$.

Thanks,

Alex

renethx

03-02-09, 01:14 AM

jake-22

03-02-09, 06:03 AM

COMMODORE64

03-02-09, 06:33 AM

9800 GT does not have HD audio controller, it supports only S/PDIF pass-through from the onboard audio codec.

Currently Hybrid Power is supported by GeForce 8200/8300/nForce 750a/780a.

No biggie. What is the recommendation on a reasonable price that has every supports on the HD audio controller? It need to be PCI-E.

roostaar

03-02-09, 07:18 AM

I have built the Lo End Intel/Nvidia and I LOVE IT!

I am now trying to get the best *judder/artifact free* picture on my Panasonic LZD800

It is a 50/100Hz LCD that has a 24p 'mode'.

By most accounts, end-users o not like the 24p mode much as it introduces artifacts. :(

Which refresh rate should I have the HTPC set too?

23/24/25/50/60?

24 gives sluggish MCE interface performance but 25 can give juddery video.

I playback BD's from the internal BD player and 1080/720 24p .mkv video files.

:)

jxo

03-02-09, 08:25 AM

Unless you play games, GeForce 9500 GT or GeForce 9600 GT is enough. A higher model could do better post-processing, but so far I have not found any advantage in video playback. 8800GT (65nm) was replaced by 9800GT (55nm). 9800 GTX is too long for your case. A couple of quiet cards are:

- ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M
- ASUS EN9600GT/HTDI/512M
- ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M

Needless to say 9500 GT consumes the least power (-15W to -20W at video playback compared with 9600/9800 GT).

Renethx: thanks much.

No gaming at all on this machine.

You say "a higher model could do better post processing". When/under what circumstances would this be a benefit?

Correct then to assume no meaningful PQ differences among these models (9500, 9600 and 9800) for SD playback?

For this setup, any reason to consider the ATI cards? the 4670 and 4870 seem to be popular-- will they have any PQ advantage over the GeForce cards for SD DVD playback?

thanks again.

ilovejedd

03-02-09, 08:45 AM

CPU: Core 2 Duo E2200 Socket 775, $194.
:eek: Don't think I'd be willing to pay that much for an E2200...

etcarroll

03-02-09, 10:21 AM

:eek: Don't think I'd be willing to pay that much for an E2200...

I hear that.

Actually, that quote is a 'cut and paste' from my email a year back that I asked Renethx to proof.

I actually got the chip from ebay for $85, if I recall correctly.

Heck, I bought the e8400 for $164 from the egg.

renethx

03-02-09, 10:33 AM

No biggie. What is the recommendation on a reasonable price that has every supports on the HD audio controller? It need to be PCI-E.
Every HD 4xxx card has an HD audio controller. Every card except for HD 4350 is good for HTPC (and gaming with higher number models).

renethx

03-02-09, 10:36 AM

Which refresh rate should I have the HTPC set too?

23/24/25/50/60?

24 gives sluggish MCE interface performance but 25 can give juddery video.

I playback BD's from the internal BD player and 1080/720 24p .mkv video files.

:)
23 (= 23.976) for BD/DVD movie playback.

renethx

03-02-09, 10:47 AM

You say "a higher model could do better post processing". When/under what circumstances would this be a benefit?

Correct then to assume no meaningful PQ differences among these models (9500, 9600 and 9800) for SD playback?

For this setup, any reason to consider the ATI cards? the 4670 and 4870 seem to be popular-- will they have any PQ advantage over the GeForce cards for SD DVD playback?
9500 is good enough for normal post-processing. Some features like Dynamic Contrast Enhancement and Digital Picture Enhancements may be better implemented in higher models (these require more stream processors). Personally I don't care about these extra features.

PQ of SD contents is more or less subjetive matter. Some prefer NVIDIA, some prefer AMD. There is no clear-cut choice.

COMMODORE64

03-02-09, 11:03 AM

Every HD 4xxx card has an HD audio controller. Every card except for HD 4350 is good for HTPC (and gaming with higher number models).
Edited = Whoops, i didn't read it right.

What's your better recommendation on sound card if I'm sticking to 9800GT?

renethx

03-02-09, 11:16 AM

Edited = Whoops, i didn't read it right.

What's your better recommendation on sound card if I'm sticking to 9800GT?
What sound system are you using (recevier supporting HDMI or not, etc.)?

ilovejedd

03-02-09, 11:27 AM

I hear that.

Actually, that quote is a 'cut and paste' from my email a year back that I asked Renethx to proof.

I actually got the chip from ebay for $85, if I recall correctly.

Heck, I bought the e8400 for $164 from the egg.
Are you sure about that? I'm thinking there must be a typo somewhere. I don't have the Intel price list of that time to back my claims, but I'm pretty sure the Pentium Dual-Core E2200 couldn't have been more than (US)$100 (1Ku tray price) when it was first released. Maybe $94, but certainly not $194.

I bought a Q6600 a little over a year ago for $240 and I don't think the price difference between a Core 2 Quad Q6600 and a lowly Pentium Dual-Core E2200 could be a mere $46 at that time. Heck, a Core 2 Duo E6750 was $190 around the time of purchase, iirc. No way is the E2200 more expensive than an E6750.

kalrith

03-02-09, 11:44 AM

Dear Renethx and fellow AVS members.

I have read and learnt a lot on these forums, and esp. renethx guide! but im going insane when it comes to what motherboard i should choose! They all seem to have a lot of flaws, the more I read about them here on AVS forums. So a stable, and supported mobo would be really nice. So help would be greatly appreciated.

What are my Requirements for the HTPC?
I want to make a HTPC that can handle Windows 7/Vista /PowerDVD and Seamless Blu-ray content, and X264/Mkv . I Never encode DVD´s, but since ill be getting 2 DVB-C id be recording. It will not be used for any gaming at all, so the GFX is just for allegedly to boost Picture Quality (Does any trust onboard gfx? I´m still quite suspicious after reading these forums). Other processes would be NewsLeecher, torrent and streaming of Radio.

It has to be whisper quiet, and i hope to build a pc that wont draw too much power. But i wont sacrifice smooth play for a CO2 friendly HTPC. So im in a dilemma with the CPU. The wife wants Intel, wich we have always used, but most forums tend to go with the amd solution. We are leaning towards the e8500.
Most of the media will be Scene releases (x.264 MKV 720p, and XviD), but 1080p is taking over for me.
I plan on buying 6 external USB drives, since they can power down completely and hence save power, so the HTPC will also serve as a NAS.

My build so far:
Antec VERIS Fusion Remote Max
PioneerBDC-S02
Corsair XMS2 2 x 2 GB
Corsair VX450W Or Antec EarthWatts EA380 EC
1-3 x Samsung SpinPoint F1 Desktop Class HD103UJ 1 TB / Western Digital's GreenPower 1TB
Thought of getting a inexpensive SSD as system drive. ( OCZ Core Series V2 30 GB) ?
Sapphire RADEON HD 4670 Ultimate Edition (Passive cooled)
2x Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV C/CI with Viaccess CAM
Logitech diNovo Edge (Dansk) (Bluetooth)

Intel solution:
GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H Asus P5Q-EM HDMI, (Ive read both threads now, and im sooo torn between these 2 bords! Especialy if i buy a Sapphire RADEON HD 4670 Ultimate Edition (Passive cooled), because a discrete cards seems to be needed for better PQ and heavy divx/deinterlancing operation. The price is the same for these mobo in my country)
Core 2 Duo E8500/E8400 or Core 2 Duo E7400 3 MB

AMD:
Asus M3A78-EM and Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H Gigabyte GA-MA78GPM-DS2H or ZOTAC GeForce 8300
Athlon X2 5050e 1 MB /Athlon X2 6000+ 1 MB/ Athlon X2 7750 2 MB (Those are the same price here.)

Happy commenting.

silentpcreview.com is a good source for low-noise, low-power-usage builds. I did a lot of research there and decided on an Abit AN-M2 motherboard with a BE-2300 processor (I would've gone with the 5050e except it cost $30 more). I use Crystal CPUID to undervolt the cpu to .8v at idle while underclocking to 1.12 GHz. When I need the power, my cpu is still undervolted to 1.15v (stock is 1.25v) while overclocked to 2.66 GHz. You could do something similar with the 5050e.

If I were doing an intel build, I'd go with a G31/G33/P31 motherboard. Those seem to use the least amount of power. This review (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-e7200-g31,2039-13.html) on tomshardware shows the g31 and e7200 using only 31W at idle, and that's the wattage used at the plug so it incorporates the power-supply-efficiency loss as well. You could probably do even better with Crystal CPUID.

Also, I'd recommend switching your hard drive to the WD10EADS, which is Western Digital's new 1TB "Green" hdd with 32MB cache. You can read about it in this review (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/green-terabyte-1tb,2078-8.html) on tomshardware. It uses less energy than any other "green" hard drives while outperforming them as well.

SuperTuna

03-02-09, 12:59 PM

Renethx will know for sure, but here is a quote from a reply to me that might give you an idea.
Hope this helps :)

Hmm - sorta - except the card length for the X2 is being stated as 11.5" lol. I think I don't mind missing out on some HDD space which might be the limitation on the Zalman/4850x2 combo. I'm sure by the time I get things figured out, there'll be new cards and cases anyway :D

jake-22

03-02-09, 04:22 PM

:) Thanks kalrith for the coments. After using the whole day of researching further for parts, ive come to the conclusion that this is a good setup. Coments on up/downgrades are welcome.

Core 2 Duo E7400 3 MB (Intel Boxed) 871 kr. 864 kr.
Cooler Master GeminII S 190 kr. 190 kr.
Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H 979 kr. 974 kr
LG GGCH20L Super Multi Blue 800 kr. 790 kr.
Corsair VX450W 464 kr. 463 kr
Corsair XMS2 2 x 2 GB 320 kr. 309 kr
Antec VERIS Fusion Remote Max 1.210 kr. 1.112 kr
Logitech diNovo Edge (Dansk) (Bluetooth) 937 kr. 937 kr.
Gainward 9500GT (1 GB) 484 kr. 484 kr.
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium w/SP1 (Dansk) (Licens og medie) 750 kr.
WD Caviar Green WD10EADS 1 TB 726 kr x 2 1452.
WD Scorpio Blue WD5000BEVT 500 GB 710 kr.
Nexus 120mm Real Silent Case Fan D12SL-12 (Hvid / Sort) 68 kr. x 136 kr.
Noctua NF-S12-800 113 kr. x2 226
Digital Everywhere FloppyDTV C/CI with Viaccess CAM 1.599 kr.

11064 kr. = 1870.34 USD

KLC

03-02-09, 05:10 PM

Renethx and all others, thanks for the great amount of information here. I'm a newbie when it comes to htpc and home servers but I'm learning more each time I spend time in these forums.

I'm thinking of doing a home server with WHS and one HTPC for our new Samsung A630 LCD TV, along with two desktop pcs and one laptop. I want to use it for viewing/recording HD and SD off an antenna, ripping and storing music and some DVDs, including BD, sharing files and family pictures/videos, and for web surfing/video content on the TV. I currently have a DSL connection and a wireless G network. We only have OTA, no cable.

I've read this sticky thread several times as well as the home server thread over the last few weeks and now I've registered to ask some questions.

In the guide it is mentioned twice that you can use you server as a DVR. I've searched the forums with those key words but haven't really found more information. I had assumed the dvr would have to be on the HTPC connected to my TV before I came across that.

Could someone explain in more detail how this is done? If I put a Hauppauge card in the server doesn't it become more or less the same as an HDHomerun, available to all computers linked to the server?

I had a pretty good understanding of what was going on while assuming the TV card was in the htpc but I'm not grasping how or what to do to make the server the dvr.

Thanks for the help.

COMMODORE64

03-02-09, 05:49 PM

What sound system are you using (recevier supporting HDMI or not, etc.)?

I was hoping to have clear sound over HDMI whether possible, because I do plans to add the HD cable box ontop of my HTPC.

I also would like to have clear sound over HDMI on any kinds of encoding/decoding sounds from downloaded contents, or usage of Blu-ray.

ahampleman

03-02-09, 06:54 PM

I don't see much on this 1 gig card, just the 512mb version. Does anyone think I would be disappointed with Blu-ray playback with 5.1 audio and 7.1 in the furture?:confused: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161251

Razumen

03-02-09, 09:00 PM

I've updated my build, this is what I'm planning on getting so far, comments are welcome. :) (*=new)

*CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.5GHZ 800FSB 2MB Retail Box
*MB: Gigabyte EP45-UD3R
PSU: Enermax Liberty 500W
GPU: Geforce 7900GTX
*Cooling: Xigmatek HDT-S1283 Direct Touch 3 Heatpipe Heatsink
*RAM: Patriot Viper Extreme Performance 4GB DDR2 2X2GB PC2-6400
Sound: Creative Audigy 2ZS
Case: Silverstone Lascala LC17B Black ATX HTPC Case

Again, I plan on overclocking, thus the need for a third party heatsink. I was originally going to opt for a cheaper MB but I need 3 PCI slots (Audio, Wireless + Tuner) but none of the lower cost models have more than 2.

I'm a little concerned over the 7900GTX, as most posts here seem to recommend a 8k series at least, will it be able to produce decent recults with HD videos? There's the question as to whether it will fit without blocking any HDs, but I have the case so I guess I can just pop it open and find out for myself.

renethx

03-02-09, 11:45 PM

In the guide it is mentioned twice that you can use you server as a DVR. I've searched the forums with those key words but haven't really found more information. I had assumed the dvr would have to be on the HTPC connected to my TV before I came across that.

Could someone explain in more detail how this is done? If I put a Hauppauge card in the server doesn't it become more or less the same as an HDHomerun, available to all computers linked to the server?

I had a pretty good understanding of what was going on while assuming the TV card was in the htpc but I'm not grasping how or what to do to make the server the dvr.
If you install WHS on the server, you can't use it as DVR with TV tuners (simply because WHS is not designed for this purpose). The best way is install a TV tuner(s) in HTPC and record contents to the server (Better way of recording live TV to WHS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=935341)).

renethx

03-02-09, 11:48 PM

I was hoping to have clear sound over HDMI whether possible, because I do plans to add the HD cable box ontop of my HTPC.

I also would like to have clear sound over HDMI on any kinds of encoding/decoding sounds from downloaded contents, or usage of Blu-ray.
If you are going to use HDMI audio, then you don't need a sound card (unless you want Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams). The built-in HDMI solution in any system on page 85 is enough.

renethx

03-03-09, 12:04 AM

tricex2

03-03-09, 12:29 AM

Hi All,

I've been a lurker on this board for awhile now and have just saved up a few hundred well about $700 to be exact to build my first htpc. I've built a number of desktops in the past but want this one to be good with a low profile for my den. I've listed the parts that I have purchased so far and would love any advice on what I could add or upgrade to make this build even better. I haven't received the parts yet so I still have time to make exchanges if need be. I already have a DVR through dishnetwork but would still like to play HD content on the htpc. Thanks for any and all suggestions.:)

**these items were purchased from newegg for reference**

AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor - Retail

BIOSTAR TA790GX XE AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

Rosewill RNX-G1 IEEE 802.11b/g USB 2.0 Wireless Black Dongle with External 2dBi SMA Antenna Up to 54Mbps Data Rates 64/128-bit WEP, WPA/WPA2, WPA-PSK/WPA2-PSK

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe

Antec New Solution Series NSK2480 Chassis

Wireless Multimedia Keyboard and Mouse

Sony HT-DDW790 for sound already owned.
37" Vizio HDTV already owned

Razumen

03-03-09, 12:48 AM

HDT-S1283 does not fit LC17. Choose HDT-SD964 instead. What sound system are you using? Can't you use S/PDIF or HDMI audio? If you save your money, you can continue to use GeForce 7900 GTX. Otherwise using a new card is recommended if you play BD movies (GeForce 9500 GT or higher [no native HDMI audio], or Radeon HD 4550 or higher [native HDMI audio]).

Ah thanks, apparently NCIX had the dimensions mixed up for that heat-sink.

I'm currently outputting audio through the stereo jack on the Audigy, my sound system doesn't support anything better, but I'm fine with that for now.

I take it that using a 7900GTX won't be enough then for BD movies? I've measured the length and it'll fit the case, only I won't be able to use the second hard drive bay. So right now either a MB with integrated video or a new GFX card is definitely in consideration.

renethx

03-03-09, 12:57 AM

I take it that using a 7900GTX won't be enough then for BD movies? I've measured the length and it'll fit the case, only I won't be able to use the second hard drive bay. So right now either a MB with integrated video or a new GFX card is definitely in consideration.
A problem of 7900 GTX is the lack of HA for H.264. If you play BD movies with a commercial player such as PowerDVD, you will need a very powerful CPU such as E8500 (OC E5200 may not be enough because of smaller L2 cache). Another potential problem is the lack of HDCP. Check your card's support for HDCP.

If you choose an ATX mb with IGP (EVGA GeForce 9300, for example; if you don't mind AMD chip, then AMD 780G/790GX), then you don't need a discrete card.

fatchowmein

03-03-09, 04:19 AM

I wanted to report back on my attempt at the AMD/AMD budget mATX system...

First, thanks Renethx for this excellent thread.

I slapped together an Athlon 5050e (with the included HSF), Gigabyte MA78GM-S2HP, HIS HD4670, 2GB spare memory I had laying around, a 500GB SATA spare drive I had, the IDE DVD-RW borrowed from my Home Server, a USB IR receiver, and an Antec NSK1380. Works great. My wife loves it.

The NSK1380 is basically a cube. There's no room for an additional PCI card except for the PCI-E 1x which sits above the 16x. The HIS is a dual slot card and it takes up the PCI-E 16x, the first PCI slot, and the second PCI slot needs to be left open for the intake (or at least that's what it looks like to me). This works out however since the cube comes with a PCI slot fan which many people report is too loud (I never tested it myself). The HIS makes a great replacement and is quiet. The cube is small so you'll need to be patient with your cabling efforts to allow as much airflow as possible (I should probably replace the IDE burner with some sort of optical SATA drive or yank it out completely).

SD and HD playback is fantastic through HDMI. Audio is via optical to my HDMI-less receiver. Currently, I'm using mkv containers for HD. I have not tested ts. (VMC Ultimate + MediaBrowser)

For my space requirements of small but having a full height video card, the NSK1380 was perfect for my needs of a mostly out of sight HTPC front end that is quiet and unassuming. It shares the bottom of my AV rack and if it wasn't for the blue LED I wouldn't know that it was on. Sleep/S3 works perfectly and my Harmony 880 can wake it.

If you need video recording or tuner, go USB or look for a different case or have the recording/playback done on your backend system or elsewhere (HDHomerun).

Many thanks to Renethx, to those who asked questions, and to those who answered. Thanks for sharing the wealth (of info).

Nil Einne

03-03-09, 05:37 AM

I replaced DS3H by DS3HP simply because DS3H is not available in US any longer. If you can't find DS3HP, then choose DS3H. Phase power is related to CPU power circuitry. You shouldn't care about this.

There's also the GA-MA780G-UD3H which appears to be basically the Ultra Durable 3 version of these boards. It does have Dolby Home Theater. Haven't seen much evidence UD3 actually helps anything so only concentrete advantage is official support for DDR2 1200 (dependent on the processor of course) but can't see any reason why it's bad and it may provide some minor advantage in longevity, stability and cooling.

Unlike with the Intel varieties, by and large Gigabyte doesn't appear to have reduced functionality with their UD3 range for AMD.

renethx

03-03-09, 06:03 AM

There's also the GA-MA780G-UD3H which appears to be basically the Ultra Durable 3 version of these boards. It does have Dolby Home Theater. Haven't seen much evidence UD3 actually helps anything so only concentrete advantage is official support for DDR2 1200 (dependent on the processor of course) but can't see any reason why it's bad and it may provide some minor advantage in longevity, stability and cooling.

Unlike with the Intel varieties, by and large Gigabyte doesn't appear to have reduced functionality with their UD3 range for AMD.
I replaced GA-MA780G-DS3HP by GA-MA780G-UD3H a couple of days ago. :)

Xane690

03-03-09, 06:24 AM

Anyone know of a Video Card that supports 4x DVI out and is 100bux or less?

Nil Einne

03-03-09, 07:03 AM

I replaced GA-MA780G-DS3HP by GA-MA780G-UD3H a couple of days ago. :)

If only the UD3H wasn't out of stock here in NZ with no new sign of new stock arriving any time soon :-P

Benno88

03-03-09, 07:59 AM

A cheap SLI setup if you cant accomodate that on your mobo would do the trick mate. Dual DVI on both cards :)

rhinogooner

03-03-09, 09:26 AM

ReneTHX, can you tell me where you have found this case for that price?

Do you foresee this case coming further down in price in a few months?

renethx

03-03-09, 09:47 AM

ReneTHX, can you tell me where you have found this case for that price?

Do you foresee this case coming further down in price in a few months?
COMP-U-PLUS (http://www.compuplus.com/i-Antec-Fusion-Remote-Max-HTPC-Enclosure-FUSIONREMOTEMAX-1019492~.html?sid=nz2l78bzz1k5nzv), $25 shipping to anywhere in the 48 US states. (But the total cost would be almost the same as Provantage: $182.36+$17.45=~$200). The price is stable (+/-$10).

renethx

03-03-09, 10:15 AM

This will be the highest GeForce graphics card that fits normal HTPC cases. The l.h.s. is 9800 GTX (10.5") and the r.h.s. is GTX 250 (9.0"), from Tech Report (http://techreport.com/articles.x/16504/1).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=135457&stc=1&d=1236093027

The performance is nearly identical with 9800 GTX+, but the power consumption is 30W lower at idle, 20W lower at load.

Price:

- GeForce GTS 250 512MB: $129
- GeForce GTS 250 1GB: $149

BTW AMD will cut the price of HD 4850/4870, perhaps to compete with GTS 250 (DailyTech (http://www.dailytech.com/Radeon+4870+Gets+50+Price+Cut+to+149+Radeon+4850+Will+Drop+t o+129/article14433.htm)):

- Radeon HD 4850 512MB: $129
- Radeon HD 4870 512MB: $149

rhinogooner

03-03-09, 10:36 AM

COMP-U-PLUS (http://www.compuplus.com/i-Antec-Fusion-Remote-Max-HTPC-Enclosure-FUSIONREMOTEMAX-1019492~.html?sid=nz2l78bzz1k5nzv), $25 shipping to anywhere in the 48 US states. (But the total cost would be almost the same as Provantage: $182.36+$17.45=~$200). The price is stable (+/-$10).

Thanks ReneTHX. How do you keep track of prices of so many components at different shops???

My intention is to build your Mid-range ATX spec. including a TV tuner, Blu-Ray drive, wireless N card, and Windows Vista 32-bit.

I haven't purchased anything so far because this build is totalling around $900 - $1000 at the best prices I've been able to find. I'd like to build it for less so I keep searching for deals (my wife would NOT be pleased if I spent that much :D).

I plan to make the Antec Fusion Remote Max case my first purchase of the required components since it is the most expensive. I'd like to find it for around $150. Once I have that, I will have committed myself to building an HTPC and I can slowly gather the other components one at a time as I find them for exceptional prices. So I keep hunting.

Thanks for your continued guidance!

kjmott

03-03-09, 10:56 AM

renethx

03-03-09, 11:07 AM

I am looking to build the low end intell/nivida combo and I can't find the recommended motherboard.
Where are you living? ZipZoomfly means US?

KLC

03-03-09, 11:11 AM

renethx

03-03-09, 11:48 AM

Renethx, thanks for staying with this thread and providing so much help. I'm understanding more.

Could you help me out with a few more things? How does the HDHomerun differ from having a tv card in my htpc? If I use HDHomerun can I use it as a PVR for my antenna feed or does it work the same way as putting the tv card in the home server?

Also, two really basic questions. First, do all Windows home server boxes have headless capability like the HP mediasmart boxes or is this a specific HP add on? Second, since it is connected to the internet I assume you need AV software installed or is it also different from a regular PC?
SiliconDust HDHomeRun

PROS

- dual digital tuner for cable/cable, cable/antenna or antenna/antenna (dual tuner 2250 works with only one type of source)
- works with clear QAM under MCE/VMC/7MC.
- works from any PC on the network.

CONS

- no analog
- pricey

Read also HDHomeRun vs. Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1125949).

Yes, you can run WHS run as a headless unit and control it from any PC (Vista or XP) on the network via WHS Console. Installing antivirus software is recommended.

kjmott

03-03-09, 11:57 AM

yes I am in the US

renethx

03-03-09, 12:12 PM

yes I am in the US
- GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H (http://www.google.com/products?q=GA-E7AUM-DS2H&scoring=p)
- MSI P7NGM-Digital (http://www.google.com/products?q=MSI+P7NGM-Digital)

kalrith

03-03-09, 12:12 PM

I am looking to build the low end intell/nivida combo and I can't find the recommended motherboard.

But I found this one.

XFX MI93007AS9 nVidia GeForce 9300 over at zipzoomfly

Would be a good board to build a budget htpc around?

I used to build pc's all the time, but have been out of the buisness.

my current htpc is -

asus a7n8x-dx with xp 2400+
ati 9800-pro
haupauge 1600 with QAM

Anyways I am looking to get upgraded to a new rig but short on cash. You all do a great job on this forum. Thanks for the advice.

Isn't this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128363&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Motherboards+-+Intel-_-GIGABYTE-_-13128363) the mATX motherboard in the low-end intel/nvidia build? I believe this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130214&Tpk=P7NGM-Digital) is the alternative listed.

Edit: If you're going ATX, then here's (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188035&Tpk=113-YW-E115-TR) that motherboard as well. I'm curious as to exactly how you went about looking for these motherboards. Google.com/products (or froogle.com) is your friend.

Rats! Beaten to the punch by renethx! (whose post after mine was deleted for some reason :confused:)

kjmott

03-03-09, 12:37 PM

Thanks for the help u 2. I think I confused myself by looking at the miniitx stuff and then the mATX boards.

I was using google to search. I usually don't buy from newegg because they charge me Tax.

Okay I am going to look at some stuff and post back later what I might get and see if you all have any more last minute advice. Thanks a bunch.

Kyle

jesseasi

03-03-09, 02:20 PM

saxnix

03-03-09, 03:16 PM

Thanks ReneTHX. How do you keep track of prices of so many components at different shops???

Have you seen the movie Eagle Eye? I think ReneTHX is the HTPC version of that. :D

dbone1026

03-03-09, 05:36 PM

In the process of building my HTPC and wanted to ask a fairly simple question.

I plan to run XBMC, output through HDMI (both video and audio), use a remote to power it on and off - and hopefully have the system boot directly up into XBMC.

What is the preferred OS for this?

Lets assume I have all OS available to me and cost is not an issue.

Vista Business 32bit or 64 bit?
Vista 32Bit Home
Vista Ultimate- 32bit or 64bit?
Windows XP 32bit or 64bit?
Linux?

I would like to know now before I start going down the wrong path.

I don't ever plan to use my HTPC for anything else. Strictly streaming video.

Really your preference. On my HTPCs I have Vista Ultimate x64 set up. Using x64 requires a little more tinkering then x32 from a codec standpoint, but as of now I have flawless playback. One thing though, XBMC does not support hardware acceleration in Windows. Also, XBMC although available for Windows, is still heavily focused towards Linux. I run XBMC on my x64 HTPCs and well as my x32 desktop pc without issue. I see no reason to use the business edition. I know some people frown on Vista, but I am very happy with it. The reason why I chose x64 over x32 for the HTPCs was to take advantage of 4GB+ RAM.

jnm4lsu

03-03-09, 08:10 PM

Recently built a new HTPC:
ga ep45-ud3p
q9300
ATI 3800 (catalyst 9.2)
lg HD/BD player
running vista ultimate
power dvd v7.3 (patched)
Samsung 226bw (dvi connection)
I cant't get video on tv (sony connected via HDMI and SPDIF) in extended mode. I get video in clone mode, but in extended mode I get a picture of the desktop but no video or any other details.
Power dvd won't play the BD while in clone mode. Something to the effect that it won't show on two displays.
although both displays are HDCP compliant (I think).
any help greatly appreciated.

strangeways

03-03-09, 09:15 PM

ahh jeez.....overwhelmed again!

i was initially overjoyed when i saw this sub-forum, hell i was ecstatic when i found AVS forum to begin with.

since i first got the idea to create a Home Theatre System in my converted bedroom to man-cave i have been a researching/reading maniac. it then occured to me that i could build what i termed a computer centric HTS. since i spend most of my time in front of my PC anyway, why bother with a completely seperate system? which is why i was so happy when i saw this sub-forum ( i just joined AVS 3 days ago). so the first couple of nights (and days partiallly) i picked out my components (AVR, Speakers & Sub).

tonight i broached the pages of this thread, and oh my gawd!! 222 pages of stuff i don't understand! i thought this would be simple.

1) i get an AVR
2) plug some speakers and a sub (optional) into the AVR
3) run the PC sound card outputs into the AVR
4) swap out (in my case) my 3 yr old 17 inch PC monitor for a Viewsonic VT2430 24-Inch Class Widescreen LCD HDTV that is PC compatible (and will fit my desk perfectly)
5) plug the PC's video out into the TV/PC monitor
6) enjoy pc-centric Home Theatre nirvana

i was crushed when i opened the first page of this thread and saw all of this stuff i need, and worse that my Dell 8400 desktop might not cut the mustard. i then scanned several pages more and saw all of these terms that i thought would not apply to me....may! :eek:

after i stopped crying, i thought i would ask for guidance before i jump. :D

1) will the system i outlined work?
2) what are the bare basics i need to learn, and where in this huge thread do i find them?

please, just tell me what you need to know to help me execute what i am planning.

Thank-you In Advance for any and all hints/suggestions/tips. :)

Mike

Davinleeds

03-03-09, 10:24 PM

Click renethx's Guide to Building HD HTPC, excellent information.

renethx

03-03-09, 10:55 PM

renethx

03-03-09, 11:09 PM

1) will the system i outlined work?
2) what are the bare basics i need to learn, and where in this huge thread do i find them?
The Beginner's Guide to the HTPC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=847560) may be more friendly to you. You need a HTPC, an AVR, a display and a speaker system. Start at page 85 to build a HTPC quickly.

KLC

03-03-09, 11:43 PM

renethx, thanks so much for helping me. I've got one HDHR question. Do all computers in the network have to have windows media center to work? I'm building an HTPC with Vista Home premium that will be hooked up to our Samsung 52" A630 LCD TV. With HDHR I understand that I can use VMC to watch TV and use DVR functions.

I've got a PC in the bedroom with a nice Dell 2408 monitor that I'd like to use to watch TV with the HDHR but it is running XP Pro. Will that work?

I've gone to the Silicon Dust website and read the very meager documentation but I'm still not clear on this.

jesseasi

03-04-09, 01:51 AM

Really your preference. On my HTPCs I have Vista Ultimate x64 set up. Using x64 requires a little more tinkering then x32 from a codec standpoint, but as of now I have flawless playback. One thing though, XBMC does not support hardware acceleration in Windows. Also, XBMC although available for Windows, is still heavily focused towards Linux. I run XBMC on my x64 HTPCs and well as my x32 desktop pc without issue. I see no reason to use the business edition. I know some people frown on Vista, but I am very happy with it. The reason why I chose x64 over x32 for the HTPCs was to take advantage of 4GB+ RAM.

Thanks for the reply - I do have 64bit Ultimate at my disposal. I do run it on my main home computer.

Renethx - I wanted to ask you, since are the expert on building HTPC's - what do you run on your personal setup? I was reading through several of your posts and you mentioned that you could not compare OS's but hinted very strongly to using - Ubuntu.

Do you use XBMC or some other media center software to manage and play/stream your media?

Seems like Linux/Ubuntu is very popular alternative but I am about as novice as anyone can be when it comes to linux.

So I am curious to see what kind of setup you use. I guess from a hardware and software setup.

nozzey

03-04-09, 03:11 AM

renethx

03-04-09, 03:18 AM

Renethx

Re:GeForce GTS 250 512MB: $129

Is there any advantage of purchasing this card for HTPC use only, or is it overkill

Understand its uses less power but will there be any improvement in performance/PQ etc.
The main advantage is 3D performance. GTS 250 will replace 9800 GT in the high-end systems on my recommendation.

renethx

03-04-09, 09:09 AM

KLC

03-04-09, 11:11 AM

renethx, thanks for the help. HDHR looks intriguing but not for me since all my PCs are XP, except for the new HTPC which will have vista home premium.

Are you familiar with the In Win BK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108092) series cases? They seem just about what I want as far as size but all of the major online vendors are out of stock.

renethx

03-04-09, 11:14 AM

Are you familiar with the In Win BK (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811108092) series cases?
No, unfortunately.

archibael

03-04-09, 11:25 AM

renethx, thanks for the help. HDHR looks intriguing but not for me since all my PCs are XP, except for the new HTPC which will have vista home premium.

If all you want to do is watch, HDHR is just fine with XPPro and something like VideoLAN.

If you want to record, HDHR works fine in XP with MediaPortal. Presumably BeyondTV and Sage as well.

I think you're giving up on it too easily.

kshane9

03-04-09, 11:51 AM

Renethx & other members, thanks for the wealth of information you have provided.
This is my first attempt at a HTPC. I will not say that I have been able to read every post in this thread :D

I will be using the HTPC to store/access via network/play my ripped DVDs, BD's & music as well as watch online shows. I want something that has a small form factor. This will be plugging into my Pioneer Elite VSX-01TXH receiver via HDMI.

Here is hardware which I intend on purchasing:

Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX
CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz Socket 775
CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT07-775
RAM: Kingston 2x2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory - Retail
Case: Apex MI-008
Blue-Ray: LG Black Model GGC-H20L 6X Blu-ray DVD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 40X CD-ROM SATA Internal Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner
HD: Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000333AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Switch: Monoprice 4X1 Enhanced 1.3b Certified HDMI Switch with built-in Equalizer and Remote (REV.3.0)

I will be using the following software:
MS Vista Ultimate 32-Bit
AnyDVD-HD
PowerDVD 8 Ultra

1. Does this configuration look sound?
2. I am confused regarding the HD audio. Will I be able to receive/playback Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream or do I need to get an addin card?
3. Will a generic Media Center USB IR receiver work (will be using my Harmony 550)?
4. I am trying to decide between the Microsoft Wireless Entertainment Desktop 7000 and the Logitech diNovo Mini. Any pros or cons would help my decision making.

Any further suggestions or comments are welcome!
Thanks for your help!!

KLC

03-04-09, 12:36 PM

archibael, it's so hard to get good information. I went to the silicondust website and read the installation manual and the other docs. Saying that they are brief is being too kind. I asked the Vista question on their forum and got one reply, telling me that I needed Vista to use DVR functions with HDHR.

Can you point me to other resources that will help me understand better what I can and can't do with HDHR?

renethx

03-04-09, 01:20 PM

1. Does this configuration look sound?
2. I am confused regarding the HD audio. Will I be able to receive/playback Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream or do I need to get an addin card?
3. Will a generic Media Center USB IR receiver work (will be using my Harmony 550)?
4. I am trying to decide between the Microsoft Wireless Entertainment Desktop 7000 and the Logitech diNovo Mini. Any pros or cons would help my decision making.
1. Yes. (You may need angled SATA power/data cables.)
2. I recommend to forget bitstreaming HD audio codecs unless you are an audiophile (you will have to by ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 $180 just for this purpose). LPCM is good enough for most people.
3. Yes.
4. IMO diNovo Mini fits better in a living room.

renethx

03-04-09, 01:34 PM

I asked the Vista question on their forum and got one reply, telling me that I needed Vista to use DVR functions with HDHR.

Can you point me to other resources that will help me understand better what I can and can't do with HDHR?
That's plain wrong. XP+MediaPortal, for example, works fine as DVR. Basically if can't do something with HDHomeRun, then you can't do it with any other TV tuner (except for analog). The HDTV Tuner Information Site (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/index.html) is a good tuner selection guide. There is a sticky thread on MediaPortal.

selder0

03-04-09, 02:54 PM

KLC

03-04-09, 04:32 PM

renethx, thanks for the link. I spent some time there and I really like HDHR. I think I'll be buying one in the next few weeks.

gunbunnysoulja

03-04-09, 04:43 PM

Thanks again to renethx for this awesome guide. I used it last year to build my HTPC and I just used it again to pick out parts for my girlfriends PC.

I went with the following.. A bit overkill for her needs but it should be nice...

E5200 Cpu
GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H Mobo
A-DATA 4GB PC2 6400 Ram
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W Power Supply
LG GH22NS30 Dvd/Cd Burner (BD in the future)
Seagate 1.5TB Hard Drive
APEVIA X-TELSTAR Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811144207) (Girlfriend picked it out)
Vista Home Premium 32

I should have the parts on Friday and I can't wait to put it together for her.

Grogdamighty

03-04-09, 08:51 PM

Howdy,

Been lurking here on and off for a while. I ended up buying a Tivo HD last year because the cost was too much to build an HTPC then. I've been very happy with the Tivo, but I recently decided to upgrade my PC and decided it might be time to kick the subscription service. So anyway...

I want something that can: record TV (OTA ATSC only), play internet video (espn360+Netflix), and play/store DVDs. Eventually I'll probably add BD (unless Netflix goes full HD streaming). I have access to WinXP Pro, Vista Ultimate x64, and Win7 beta. I was planning on running Win7 MC for now and maybe getting into Media Portal or other options after I get more acquainted.

So far I have an AMD Phantom 9600 (arriving tomorrow!), GA-MA78GM-S2HP, CORSAIR XMS2 4GB DDR2-800, and WD Caviar Black 640GB. I know some of this stuff is more than I need for an HTPC, but I got good deals on all of them. I was thinking that all I needed to get up and running is a case and a tuner card, so I was hoping for some help there. More things, like the Blu-Ray drive, a larger HD, etc., can be added later.

My questions:
1. I've read really good things about the Antec cases and I'm currently debating NSK2480 vs. Fusion (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129053)/M Fusion (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129046). I know they've been recommended on this thread, but wanted to know if anyone had had good experiences. My wife isn't totally on board and would really like a Tivo-sized box. I really like that the Fusion has the integrated IR (the VFD is a strong plus) - something else and I'd have to find a cheap-but-good similar input system. Anything better than these boxes in a similar range?

2. Is Hauppauge WIN-HVR-2250 satisfactory? I know there's a debate with the HD Homerun, but the 2250 seems like enough given my single source (OTA) and cheapness.

3. Will 7MC be Tivo-like enough for my wife to like it?

4. How does the total setup look?

Thanks for your help!

strangeways

03-04-09, 10:27 PM

The Beginner's Guide to the HTPC (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=847560) may be more friendly to you. You need a HTPC, an AVR, a display and a speaker system. Start at page 85 to build a HTPC quickly.

first off, thanks a heap for the reply and the post suggestion. you were right, great foundational information.

yes i have chosen the AVR, the speakers, and the display. if i am not mistaken, my PC will act as just another input into the AVR which will run the show anyway....right? so for listening to my audio files stored on the PC, and watching video from my built-in DVD player (HD and Blueray notwithstanding) will be seen as the AVR as just another source...it seems.

as far as getting HD video and sound, it is just a matter of upgrading my video and sound cards right? if that is the case, i am breathing much easier. i will build a more capable HTPC when Windows 7 is released. i am currently using XP Pro, with no intentions of switching to Vista.

Mike

jjcirafesi

03-04-09, 10:56 PM

Thanks for this fantastic resource..... I'm totally new to building an HTPC but have replaced mb and most other components in the past. Read thru all the posts, that took a bit of time! I suspect my XPS Gen 3 doesn't have enough CPU power, but was wondering if I can use it as an HTPC. Would like to add BD player, tuner with analog/QAM, new graphics card for HDMI video and audio to Denon AVR to 720p projector. Sound at 5.1 lpcm is fine for now. Does this make sense or just start fresh? If not for HTPC, can I make it a home server for all my media? If so, suggestions for best approach to converting it? Thanks!

XPS Gen 3 Specs

Microprocessor type
Intel® Pentium® 4 processor 520, 530, 540, 550, or 560 with HT Technology
Level 1 (L1) cache 16 KB Level 2 (L2) cache
1-MB pipelined-burst, eight-way set associative, write-back SRAM

Memory Type 400- and 533-MHz DDR2 unbuffered SDRAM

Minimum memory 256 MB Maximum memory 4 GB

Chipset
Intel 925X Express

Video Type PCI Express

Expansion Bus PCI 2.3 PCI Express x1 and x16

Bus speed
PCI: 33 MHz

PCI Express:

x1 slot bidirectional speed — 500 MB/s

x16 slot bidirectional speed — 8 GB/s

PCI Express

connectors
one x1

connectors
one x16

two 3.5-inch drive bays

two 5.25-inch drive bays

Available devices
Serial ATA drive, floppy drive, USB memory devices, CD drive, CD-RW drive, DVD drive, DVD-RW drive, and DVD and CD-RW combo drive

Internally accessible: two bays for 1-inch high hard drives

Audio
five connectors for line-in, line-out, microphone, surround, and center/Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel; two front-panel connectors for headphones and microphones

System board connectors: (abbreviated)

Primary IDE drive
40-pin connector on PCI local bus

Serial ATA
four 7-pin connectors

DC power supply:

Wattage
460 W

David Baldwin

03-04-09, 11:38 PM

I have built several PC's and HTPCs over the years and am looking to build my first server/workstation.

Core Functionality:
1) Download content from my TiVos (Tivo Desktop) and
- Store for playback on HTPC (Tivo Desktop)
- Transcode for portable media playback (Tivo Desktop)
- Serve back to Tivo's or Other PC's (Tivo Desktop)
2) Download content from Camcorder
- Edit and burn movies to DVD today and maybe BD in the future.
3) Store all Photographs from DSLR and point and shoot DSCs.
- Serve photos to other computers, Tivos, PS3, etc
4) Store all digital music
- Serve music to other computers, Tivos, PS3, etc
5) Implement a true data backup system to make sure I don't lose valuable family photos and possibly the film footage too.

I am doing some of 1, 3, and 4 today so I think this is straightforward as long as I stay on a windows OS that is supported by TiVO Desktop software and has full UPnP support.

I was thinking about doing something like the 20TB server design and somehow splitting it into two arrays and finding some kind of software to back up any files as the are added or changed on one array to the other array. I'm leaning towards Vista 64 to enable more than 4GB ram for the video editing.

A) Can you give your thoughts on OS choice?

B) I could use recommendation for how to set up the disk arrays to maximize reliability and simplify failure recovery. It would be great if I could scale the system, maybe starting with 4TB or 8TB to manage cost and be able to add more drives later.

C) Can you point me towards a good and efficient backup software?

D) Is there any good software to monitor the hard drives, perform automated disk maintenace and predict failures based on temperture changes or other diagnostics?

Thanks,
DLB

renethx

03-04-09, 11:44 PM

Hi folks, please pardon my inability to read back through this monster thread.

I'd like to build from scratch a HDPC using a motherboard with integrated graphics and audio (Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio) to output over HDMI, presumably Intel G45, AMD 790, or nVidia geForce 9400 chipsets. No interest in gaming or productivity. I also have no need to tune stations - this will just be feeding bluray and internet media to a BraviaXBR6. What are the best mobo choices for an easy build? Cost is not an overriding factor - if an extra $30 would be well spent I'd do it...
TIA,
Steve
Check first this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093445) to see which solution gives Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (actually ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 is the only solution right now). For LPCM over HDMI, 9400 mb IGP is one choice, Radeon HD 4xxx card is another choice.

renethx

03-04-09, 11:51 PM

first off, thanks a heap for the reply and the post suggestion. you were right, great foundational information.

yes i have chosen the AVR, the speakers, and the display. if i am not mistaken, my PC will act as just another input into the AVR which will run the show anyway....right? so for listening to my audio files stored on the PC, and watching video from my built-in DVD player (HD and Blueray notwithstanding) will be seen as the AVR as just another source...it seems.

as far as getting HD video and sound, it is just a matter of upgrading my video and sound cards right? if that is the case, i am breathing much easier. i will build a more capable HTPC when Windows 7 is released. i am currently using XP Pro, with no intentions of switching to Vista.
Yep, HTPC is just a PC, with possibly better audio/video components, and acts as an input to AVR.

renethx

03-05-09, 12:02 AM

renethx

03-05-09, 12:16 AM

I was thinking about doing something like the 20TB server design and somehow splitting it into two arrays and finding some kind of software to back up any files as the are added or changed on one array to the other array. I'm leaning towards Vista 64 to enable more than 4GB ram for the video editing.

A) Can you give your thoughts on OS choice?

B) I could use recommendation for how to set up the disk arrays to maximize reliability and simplify failure recovery. It would be great if I could scale the system, maybe starting with 4TB or 8TB to manage cost and be able to add more drives later.

C) Can you point me towards a good and efficient backup software?

D) Is there any good software to monitor the hard drives, perform automated disk maintenace and predict failures based on temperture changes or other diagnostics?

Thanks,
DLB
Are you going to build a server that is different from your HTPC? Check Windows Home Server first. Turn on duplication for important folders. A good WHS website is here (http://mswhs.com/). Backing up the WHS system is another subject, however.

Guide To Building A Media Storage Server (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1071162) is a thead on this (I mean RAID, WHS etc.) subject. This recent thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1126618) may give you some insight.

renethx

03-05-09, 01:33 AM

There has been a rumor that NVIDIA has a plan to develop x86 processors for a long time. This came from an NVIDIA executive:

Nvidia Mulls Making Run On Intel Turf - Wall Stree Jounal (MARCH 5, 2009) (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123619668376532241.html)

Nvidia Corp. said it is considering the idea of making an x86 microprocessor -- a field dominated by Intel Corp. -- to combine with other Nvidia circuitry.

The Silicon Valley company stressed it has made no decision on developing x86 technology, indicating such products wouldn't arrive for two or three years if it resolved to make them.

But the disclosure, made by an Nvidia executive at a meeting with analysts, is the latest indication that the company is headed for more direct competition with Intel. The two companies, both based in Santa Clara, Calif., have long dominated different market segments.

Intel is best known for microprocessors -- the electronic brains in computers -- and offers chip sets that connect those products to the rest of a system. Nvidia is best known for graphics chips, but it also recently entered the market for chip sets.

Nvidia has had some success recently in the latter field, displacing Intel chip sets in computers developed by Apple Inc. The companies also are tangling in a Delaware court over whether 2004 patent-licensing agreements they signed entitle Nvidia to make chip sets that work with Intel's latest microprocessor family. Intel contends they don't; Nvidia says they do.

A move by Nvidia to make x86 microprocessors would take the company into a field that has scared away others. Besides Intel, only Advanced Micro Devices Inc. and Via Technologies Inc. currently make x86 chips.

There are competitive pressures on Nvidia. Both Intel and AMD have said they plan to make systems-on-a-chip products, or SoCs, that combine graphics circuitry and an x86 microprocessor. Such products are a mainstay in cellphones, and the approach is expected to become popular in portable computers. Nvidia already sells an SoC for mobile devices called Tegra.

Mike Hara, Nvidia's senior vice president of investor relations, told analysts Tuesday that "it's going to make sense to take the same approach in the x86 markets as well," according to a transcript of his remarks provided by the company. "Two or three years down the road I think it makes sense that we have to have an offering" that is a system-on-a-chip, he said.

The company followed up his remarks, which were reported by sites including bit-tech.net and Engadget, with a statement noting that Nvidia "continuously reviews its strategic options on a whole range of topics." It adds: "We have made no decision on this matter and have no timetable for doing so."

An Intel spokesman declined comment on the issue.

How about x86 licence? It looks like GLOBALFOUNDRIES (http://www.globalfoundries.com/) is the key point (a new manufacturing facility in New York etc.). Detailed anaysis is NVIDIA's entering the x86 business is a necessary condition for AMD's complete recovery (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2009/0305/hot600.htm?ref=rss).

renethx

03-05-09, 02:11 AM

This is the main reason why NVIDIA wants its own x86 processor.

JPR Expects Microprocessors With Built-In Graphics Cores to Replace Integrated Chipsets in Three Years - X-bit labs (March 4, 2009) (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090304133507_Chipsets_With_Integrated_Graphics_Set_to_Disa ppear_by_2013__Study.html)

Jon Peddie Research (JPR), graphics and multimedia market research firm, today announced a new study that indicates the end of the market for chipsets with integrated graphics cores. According to JPR, by 2012 such core-logic sets will be replaced by microprocessors with built-in graphics engines.

In 2008 67% of the graphics adapters shipped were built into chipsets. In 2011 it will drop to 20%, and by 2013 it will be less than one percent, according to the study.

For a period of time, between 2010 and 2012 there will be three choices for graphics available: traditional discrete graphics processing units mounted on add-in boards and/or the motherboard, integrated graphics processor (IGP) chipsets, and processors with embedded graphics. One or more of these devices will be employed in PCs.

Inevitably, market shares will shift as suppliers of IGPs like AMD, Intel, Nvidia, SiS, and Via Technologies find the opportunities for chipsets diminishing and they will seek to develop new products that take advantage of their specific strengths.

“We can already see significant maneuvering between Intel and Nvidia as Nvidia strengthens its high end offerings with CUDA development tools and on the mobile side, the company has introduced the Tegra platform which relies on an ARM processor and Nvidia graphics. AMD is going head to head with Intel with Fusion, an embedded graphics CPU, but it too is building out its workstation and visualization graphics. Via and its S3 graphics subsidiary is playing its cards close to the chest but they are currently attempting to challenge Intel on price in key strategic markets such as netbooks,” the study reads.

The first integrated graphics controller (IGP) was Sun Microsystems' LEGOS which came out in 1989 for its SPARC processor. The first integrated graphics controller for the PC was introduced by Silicon Integrated Systems – SiS – for Intel processors in 1997.

The first graphics processor inside central processing units will be Intel's Westmere in Q4 2009, AMD will introduce their Fusion processor in Q2 2011, and both companies will employ 32nm process to make such chips.

“However, this will not, as many believe, impact the discrete graphics and add-in board market. In fact, with hybrid configuration, embedded graphics will enhance the discrete GPU sales,” claims Jon Peddie Research.

icon321

03-05-09, 09:53 AM

Hi folks. Been reading for about a week and I have some questions on building a low cost HTPC. I plan on building an AMD cpu/8200 based system. My immediate use will be playing BD, streaming other HD content, streaming DIVX, ripping BD and maybe playing DVDs. Audio over HDMI is not a requirement, but a preference.

In the future, I will most likely want to stream HD/SD interlaced content. It appears that the 8200 is not the best for interlaced content, so my hope is when I am ready to move up to that, I will buy a discrete card.

I want to make sure that I will not be disapointed by performance based upon my expectations. I would like to stick with AMD cpu because that's the way I roll :).

What other MBs do you all recommend w/ the 8200 chipset or Renethx, why do you recommend the MSI over the others? Thanks for the great guide and all your help.

renethx

03-05-09, 10:38 AM

What other MBs do you all recommend w/ the 8200 chipset or Renethx, why do you recommend the MSI over the others? Thanks for the great guide and all your help.
My decision is based on power consumption (as well as general stability and features). Check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15801958#post15801958).

icon321

03-05-09, 10:59 AM

renethx

03-05-09, 11:14 AM

Thanks for explaining. I see now. However, I didn't realize that the MSI was missing a few of the features I would like, mostly spdif. What other board would you recommend with a spdif connection?

Do you think based upon my hopes, that the 8200 is a good enough solution for now? Although, I really like AMD, I couldn't help but notice the power difference with the 9300 setup. Would I notice a significant performance difference going from a 8200 to a 9300 setup?

It seems like I have read a lot about heating problems with the 9300. Thanks again.
Please read Peripheral Components and OS > Brackets on page 85 to get S/PDIF.

You won't notice difference when playing back 1080p contents, but 9300 is better in deinterlacing 1080i/480i contents.

Heat is not a problem at all if the case airflow is good. If airflow is bad, attach a small fan on NB heatsink. Please read this post CPU and iGPU Temperatures inside Antec Fusion Remote/NSK2480 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15755651#post15755651).

Nil Einne

03-05-09, 11:22 AM

Please read Peripheral Components and OS > Brackets on page 85 to get S/PDIF.

You won't notice difference when playing back 1080p contents, but 9300 is better in deinterlacing 1080i/480i contents.

Heat is not a problem at all if the case airflow is good. If airflow is bad, attach a small fan on NB heatsink. Please read this post CPU and iGPU Temperatures inside Antec Fusion Remote/NSK2480 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15755651#post15755651).

Is this comparing a 8200 with Phenom (or other HT3.0 processor) to a 9300? Or 8200 without Phenom?

icon321

03-05-09, 11:23 AM

Please read Peripheral Components and OS > Brackets on page 85 to get S/PDIF.

You won't notice difference when playing back 1080p contents, but 9300 is better in deinterlacing 1080i/480i contents.

Heat is not a problem at all if the case airflow is good. If airflow is bad, attach a small fan on NB heatsink. Please read this post CPU and iGPU Temperatures inside Antec Fusion Remote/NSK2480 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15755651#post15755651).

Is it good enough at deinterlacing that I might not need a discrete card in the future? Could you also point me in the right direction to understand if BD 24HZ is important/pertains to me? Thanks again.

renethx

03-05-09, 11:59 AM

Is this comparing a 8200 with Phenom (or other HT3.0 processor) to a 9300? Or 8200 without Phenom?
Phenom (or whatever HT3.0 processor). 8200/8300+HT2.0 is terrible.

renethx

03-05-09, 12:01 PM

Is it good enough at deinterlacing that I might not need a discrete card in the future? Could you also point me in the right direction to understand if BD 24HZ is important/pertains to me? Thanks again.
Yep, deinterlacing of 9300/9400 is just perfect.

Please read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15810929#post15810929) to see why 24Hz. BTW 24Hz applies to not only BD movies but also all the DVD movies shot at 24 frames/sec.

jesseasi

03-05-09, 12:38 PM

Renethx - (I posed this question earlier but I think you may have missed it)

I wanted to ask you, - what do you run on your personal setup? I am most interested in your choice of OS and what type of solution you use for a media center. I was reading through several of your posts and you mentioned that you could not compare OS's but hinted very strongly to using - Ubuntu.

Do you use XBMC or some other media center software to manage and play/stream your media?

Seems like Linux/Ubuntu is very popular alternative but I am about as novice as anyone can be when it comes to linux.

So I am curious to see what kind of setup you use. I guess from a hardware and software setup.

I have an unraid solution with many terabytes of data with ISO's and MKV's of my video collection. My main purpose is to stream video and audio through my HTPC.

Nil Einne

03-05-09, 12:54 PM

Phenom (or whatever HT3.0 processor). 8200/8300+HT2.0 is terrible.
Yeah I knew the second bit, that's why I was wondering. I'd seen some suggestion that the 8200 post processing even with a HT3.0 is not as good as a good discrete card but it was all a big confusing since it wasn't always clear if people are talking about with a HT2.0 or HT3.0 processor. Good to confirm that's indeed the case a discrete solution is better.

Is it the same for HD3200 (with HT3.0) vs good discrete card (e.g. 4550 or 4650)? Not just deinterlacing but other post processing including for SD content.

Cheers

renethx

03-05-09, 01:11 PM

what do you run on your personal setup? I am most interested in your choice of OS and what type of solution you use for a media center. I was reading through several of your posts and you mentioned that you could not compare OS's but hinted very strongly to using - Ubuntu.

Do you use XBMC or some other media center software to manage and play/stream your media?

Seems like Linux/Ubuntu is very popular alternative but I am about as novice as anyone can be when it comes to linux.

So I am curious to see what kind of setup you use. I guess from a hardware and software setup.
I am using Vista Ultimate 32-bit in my main HTPC (close to the low-end/mid-range Intel/NVIDIA systems) and in most test machines. Ultimate simply because I am subscribing MS TechNet Plus. Ultimate has a couple of nice features such as remote desktop and complete PC backup, but perhaps these are not essential for many people. Home Premium should be good enough (and cheaper). 32-bit because there are still many 32bit-only codecs and I don't need more than 4GB memory. Occasionally I use XP 32-bit, Vista 64-bit and Windows 7 32-bit/64-bit in HTPC, but just for testing purpose. As for front end, VMC is a good one and I ususally use it. I am also testing several others to write a software guide (yeah, I have not given it up).

Linux is another good option. But you should expect to spend some time on tweaking the system.

icon321

03-05-09, 01:17 PM

Yep, deinterlacing of 9300/9400 is just perfect.

Please read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15810929#post15810929) to see why 24Hz. BTW 24Hz applies to not only BD movies but also all the DVD movies shot at 24 frames/sec.

So if I read that post correctly...

If my LCD doesn't support native 24Hz or 120Hz, but only standard 60Hz, then a gpu that supports 24Hz will not help me?

Then to clarify, you would recommend a 9400/E5200 over a 8200/Phenom?

renethx

03-05-09, 01:21 PM

Is it the same for HD3200 (with HT3.0) vs good discrete card (e.g. 4550 or 4650)? Not just deinterlacing but other post processing including for SD content.
HD3200/3300+HT3.0 is close to HD 4550, but HD 4550 edges it out. HD 4550 supports multichannel LPCM. So I chose this card in the low-end system. HD 4670 is better that HD 4550. I have a plan to post screeshots of HQV/HD HQV benchmarks with major GPUs in the upcoming updated or completely new Guide.

renethx

03-05-09, 01:31 PM

So if I read that post correctly...

If my LCD doesn't support native 24Hz or 120Hz, but only standard 60Hz, then a gpu that supports 24Hz will not help me?

Then to clarify, you would recommend a 9400/E5200 over a 8200/Phenom?
If your display does not support 24Hz or an integer multiple of 24Hz, then just forget it.

Yes, I recommend 9400 over 8200 for a better all-around system.

icon321

03-05-09, 03:13 PM

So, what would be better, a 780/am2+ or a 4550/am2 ?

Please disregard HDMI audio for reasoning, unless there are issues going with HDMI video/spdif audio.

Now that I don't need 24p, I thought maybe I get away with the 780 for now and then add a 4xxx card when needed. Will the 780 handle BD processing without problems?

SeattleHTGuy

03-05-09, 03:23 PM

First, this thread has been very helpful and the advice and work Renethx has put in is freaky (In a good way). I will be sending a little skin his direction soon.

Next, I am building another two HTPC's from the recommendations with sort of a blended parts list utilizing the really slick MicroATX Grandia GD02 case. I got them for $119 a piece on NewEgg. (Pretty good deal). I like it far better than the much cheaper looking and feeling Antec Fusion boxes. Besides the case and a 720 Black Edition AMD processor, it is pretty much the mid range Micro ATX build. I also have two fairly zippy widescreen laptops in the house and my large 6 month old Renethx designed Premium Intel build from that period. Finally, I have an HP based and tweaked WHS unit.

So, my build is a fairly complex multi pc networked streaming media system. I use Acsoft TMT, AnyDVD, Vista MC, MyMovies for my front end and storage solution. Everything works like it is suppose to and I burn and save all movies in either folders (DVD's) and iso images (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD). I am adding a HDHomerun Tuner this week as well.

My recommendation then, for anyone interested streaming video and building the PC's is to go with the simplest and cheapest HTPC for all the networks PC's. If you want to build a Gaming Capable monster machine, go ahead and do that as well. I regret though slapping 5 Hard Drives in the downstairs Gaming Capable Premium build HTPC. With Blu Rays and other HD content, 5 discs is not enough, yet if you go and add complex RAID arrays, it probably won't be enough either and is harder to get to work and more difficult to maintain. RAID for home use is one big ugly monster and far more difficult than watching the WHS drive size grow by just plugging in a new hard drive.

Designing and building my network has taught me that WHS is the solution. It's easy and cost affective and if built like Renethx suggests, it will be expandable for the foreseeable future and will be able to grow as HD capacity grows. If you place extra drives in all the PC's and concern yourself with how many you can stick in a box or whether the motherboard you choose has a lot of Sata/esata expandability, you will just make a potential mess of the storage.

From my experience so far, if you intend to really develop a streaming network system.

1). Build small form, quiet HTPC's and focus on renethx's smaller case recommendations.
2). Tweak Processors and Video Cards to gaming taste. (Via renethx's guide).
3). Go build the cheapest possible and greatest expansion capable WHS unit.
4). Try and consolidate all storage on the WHS.
5). Don't sweat the bays or expansion capabilities of the motherboards but rather focus on HD Audio concepts (Asus Zonar, Auzentech 7.1 build issues), ATI capable 4 series lossless capability, gaming needs, post processing, etc..

Keeping this in mind, you may want one monster PC and a bunch of the cheapest simplest devices that can play back Hi Def material without issue.

I am close to ditching the HP WHS unit, ripping out my drives from the Premium HTPC build and building Renethx's largest and most powerful WHS Rack Mount Build. I think WHS storage with a bunch of simple little HTPC slaves is the long term cheapest and best whole home media solution.

I do not work for Microsoft or for that matter any tech company. I am a consumer only.. I am not renethx but there is a need out their to avoid the small (but very annoying) build errors I have so far made.

Finally, I think you have to build thinking forward. It won't be long until hobbyists can build cheap storage arrays of one kind of another that are 200 TB plus at costs that will make this reality affordable to many. If you don't think about the builds, you'll waste some money and time when you hit limits on storage capacity sooner than you may think conceivable.

DaveNagy

03-05-09, 04:27 PM

Wow, this is a great thread. I read AVS pretty regularly, but I haven't been over here in the HTPC section for several years. It appears that renethx has got a pretty awesome thing going here. It looks like a lot of work. I'll definitely throw a few bucks his way when things are said and done.

Where to begin.... I actually built a semi-HTPC back in late 2005. I say "semi", because it doesn't have a tuner, and I only used it for web surfing and a little gaming. I'd like to dust it off and start using it as a PVR, and as an always-on media server. The first thing I need to figure out is whether I can just add a few parts to the current PC, or whether I should do a more extensive rebuild prior to adding the all-new items.

Here's the current config:

Case: SilverStone SST-LC17-B (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Z3BOA2) Desktop / HTPC Case (ATX) (I want to keep this.)

PSU: SEASONIC|S12-330 RT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151021) (330W) (Keep this too, if possible.)

Mobo: Soltek SL-K890PRO-939 (http://techreport.com/articles.x/8086/1) (1 GB of RAM installed) (I'm okay with replacing this.)

CPU: Athlon 3000+ (1.8GHz, ~67W TDP) (Replaceable)

Video card: ATI X800XL (http://techreport.com/articles.x/7742) (Definitely replaceable)

Hard drive: 160GB SEAGATE ST3160023A (http://www.storagereview.com/ST3160023A.sr) 8mb (I'll keep this, but I can certainly add a bigger drive.)

I think those are the important bits. I've got MCE 2005 installed as the OS. I'm leaning towards the HDHomeRun tuner. Would the above config. be usable for:

Using the MCE PVR software to record and display HD programming (ClearQaM)
Grab Hulu-like content from the web, and make it available to my Xbox 360s? (ie. "PlayOn")
Maybe play Blu-ray disks, when I buy a drive in the future

It's also quite important to me that the box be quiet, and not a power hog. I'm wondering if something like an Intel E7400 processor, and a Radeon HD 4550 video card would be significantly better than my old setup in terms of power savings. (And noise. The fan on that old ATI card is kinda loud.)

I'm fine with the idea of gutting the box and starting over from the mobo up. I actually enjoy that sort of thing. But if it's still usable as is, I like saving money too. :)

Thanks in advance for any advice.

renethx

03-06-09, 12:39 AM

COMMODORE64

03-06-09, 01:44 AM

Recently this came to my attention that I'm able to plug the S/PDIF cable from my 9800GT to my motherboard audio, i was wondering if I still can get the great audio quality through the DVI to HDMI on my LCD?

davidh44

03-06-09, 02:36 AM

Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM LGA775 Intel G45 chipset microATX, $135.

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H LGA775 GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX, $130.
Do you know which of these MicroATX boards uses less power, or is better at overclocking?

When using an Intel CPU, how do you guys choose whether to go Intel or Nvidia for the motherboard chipset?

I'm looking to build a low-power-usage MicroATX HTPC around my existing Intel E7200 CPU. I actually have everything but the motherboard. I want it to use as little power as possible but with ability to overclock when I need more processing power for video encoding. I don't game at all, so integrated video is right up my alley...as long as it can do audio over HDMI, and output HDMI and DVI simultaneously.

COMMODORE64

03-06-09, 02:44 AM

Do you know which of these MicroATX boards uses less power, or is better at overclocking?

When using an Intel CPU, how do you guys choose whether to go Intel or Nvidia for the motherboard chipset?

I'm looking to build a low-power-usage MicroATX HTPC around my existing Intel E7200 CPU. I actually have everything but the motherboard. I want it to use as little power as possible but with ability to overclock when I need more processing power for video encoding. I don't game at all, so integrated video is right up my alley...as long as it can do audio over HDMI, and output HDMI and DVI simultaneously.

P5Q-EM and P5QL-EM will do just fine. your E7200 is powerful enough to do anything you can throw at it.

I have P5QL-EM and E7300, and I was told that it will do the job just fine.

renethx

03-06-09, 02:54 AM

I've got MCE 2005 installed as the OS. I'm leaning towards the HDHomeRun tuner. Would the above config. be usable for:

Using the MCE PVR software to record and display HD programming (ClearQaM)
Grab Hulu-like content from the web, and make it available to my Xbox 360s? (ie. "PlayOn")
Maybe play Blu-ray disks, when I buy a drive in the future

It's also quite important to me that the box be quiet, and not a power hog. I'm wondering if something like an Intel E7400 processor, and a Radeon HD 4550 video card would be significantly better than my old setup in terms of power savings. (And noise. The fan on that old ATI card is kinda loud.)

I'm fine with the idea of gutting the box and starting over from the mobo up. I actually enjoy that sort of thing. But if it's still usable as is, I like saving money too. :)
Surely you can do many things with your current system. Basically it should be able to handle HD MPEG-2 contents and all SD contents fine.

1. MCE+clear QAM+HDHomeRun should work fine in your system.

2. You can try PlayOn now to see if your system is powerful enough. PlayOn does real-time transcoding and may require some CPU power.

3. This area definitely requires a better graphics card such as HD 4550 as you mentioned because decoding HD video codec H.264 is very demanding. A dual-core processor may be necessary, but then you will have to upgrade MB (AM2/AM2+/AM3 or LGA775) and memory (DDR2 or DDR3) too. You can reuse your case, PSU and HDD with no problem.

renethx

03-06-09, 02:57 AM

renethx

03-06-09, 03:01 AM

Do you know which of these MicroATX boards uses less power, or is better at overclocking?

When using an Intel CPU, how do you guys choose whether to go Intel or Nvidia for the motherboard chipset?

I'm looking to build a low-power-usage MicroATX HTPC around my existing Intel E7200 CPU. I actually have everything but the motherboard. I want it to use as little power as possible but with ability to overclock when I need more processing power for video encoding. I don't game at all, so integrated video is right up my alley...as long as it can do audio over HDMI, and output HDMI and DVI simultaneously.
Both mb consume more or less the same power. E7AUM is better in OC. E7AMU IGP is better in deinterlacing.

You can't use onboard DVI and HDMI simultaneoulsy in either board (acutally you will get dual digital video from G45, but HDMI audio does not work somehow).

davidh44

03-06-09, 06:50 AM

Both mb consume more or less the same power. E7AUM is better in OC. E7AMU IGP is better in deinterlacing.

You can't use onboard DVI and HDMI simultaneoulsy in either board (acutally you will get dual digital video from G45, but HDMI audio does not work somehow).Thanks for that warning. I can do DVI and HDMI simultaneously (including audio over HDMI) with my ATI HD3450 video card, so if it weren't for you reply, I would've assumed the onboard solutions could do it as well. Would've defeated the purpose of getting a new motherboard!

Do you think this is a chipset limitation, or just a bug/limitation of those particular boards? If it's a chipset issue, are there any other chipsets capable of onboard DVI and HDMI (including audio over HDMI) simulatenously?

renethx

03-06-09, 07:21 AM

Thanks for that warning. I can do DVI and HDMI simultaneously (including audio over HDMI) with my ATI HD3450 video card, so if it weren't for you reply, I would've assumed the onboard solutions could do it as well. Would've defeated the purpose of getting a new motherboard!

Do you think this is a chipset limitation, or just a bug/limitation of those particular boards? If it's a chipset issue, are there any other chipsets capable of onboard DVI and HDMI (including audio over HDMI) simulatenously?
There is no IGP that supports simultaneous dual digital output with 7.1 HDMI audio. Radeon HD 4xxx discrete card is the only solution.

Nil Einne

03-06-09, 07:45 AM

Thanks for that warning. I can do DVI and HDMI simultaneously (including audio over HDMI) with my ATI HD3450 video card, so if it weren't for you reply, I would've assumed the onboard solutions could do it as well. Would've defeated the purpose of getting a new motherboard!

Do you think this is a chipset limitation, or just a bug/limitation of those particular boards? If it's a chipset issue, are there any other chipsets capable of onboard DVI and HDMI (including audio over HDMI) simulatenously?

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but it's my understanding most IGPs are only capable of one digital output (I guess they only have one TMDS) which would explain why you can't have both. It may be possible to add an external TMDS but I don't know if anyone does.

Edit: I was wrong. the G45 does but not if you want HDMI audio

Nil Einne

03-06-09, 07:46 AM

Nil Einne

03-06-09, 08:24 AM

HD3200/3300+HT3.0 is close to HD 4550, but HD 4550 edges it out. HD 4550 supports multichannel LPCM. So I chose this card in the low-end system. HD 4670 is better that HD 4550. I have a plan to post screeshots of HQV/HD HQV benchmarks with major GPUs in the upcoming updated or completely new Guide.
That guide would be very helpful :-)

As you probably know, this area is very confusing due to fact it's subjective and the various driver issues (e.g. some features not working on 4550) and the various options (e.g. some people only look at HD content).

BTW you didn't mention the 4650. Is that just because you've never tested it? I've heard before the 4550 was worse then the 4650 so I've been looking at the 4650 for a long time but haven't heard of bad things about the 4650 so far (well other then bios-driver issues with some cards preventing post processing from working properly but this doesn't seem to be the case with the HIS variants fortunately). While price-performance wise the 4670 1gb vs the 4650 512mb seems quite attractive for gaming, if there are no advantages with HTPC purposes the extra cost seems pointless to me (here in NZ the cost of a HIS iSilence 4670 is about 34% more cf the iSilence 4650)

renethx

03-06-09, 09:25 AM

That guide would be very helpful :-)

As you probably know, this area is very confusing due to fact it's subjective and the various driver issues (e.g. some features not working on 4550) and the various options (e.g. some people only look at HD content).

BTW you didn't mention the 4650. Is that just because you've never tested it? I've heard before the 4550 was worse then the 4650 so I've been looking at the 4650 for a long time but haven't heard of bad things about the 4650 so far (well other then bios-driver issues with some cards preventing post processing from working properly but this doesn't seem to be the case with the HIS variants fortunately). While price-performance wise the 4670 1gb vs the 4650 512mb seems quite attractive for gaming, if there are no advantages with HTPC purposes the extra cost seems pointless to me (here in NZ the cost of a HIS iSilence 4670 is about 34% more cf the iSilence 4650)
HQV/HD HQV Benchmark is subjective in the sense that there is no absolute standards of scoring (HQV's criteria are too obscure) so that each reviewer gives scores based on his own critera. The results also depend on the graphics driver and the player. Nevertheless comparing two cards using the benchmark is not so difficult and imo pretty objective.

I didn't mention 4650 simply because there is not enough time (and money) to test it. The only difference between 4650 and 4670 is core/mem clock (and GDDR2 vs GDDR3). If you can find a good quiet 4650 card that does not suffer from the "greyed out buttons issue", that should be a good choice. In US, the price difference is so small (check 4650 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&N=2010380048&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44046&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS) vs 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045) at Newegg.com) that I thought it's not worth my effort to pinpoint the best 4650 card. Moreover my mid-range system also aims at modest gaming performance. I have to draw a line somewhere ...

Speqtre

03-06-09, 09:32 AM

Auuuggghh! So I'm still unclear on this: Which IGPs, nvidia, amd, or even intel, will support LCPM HDMI audio out WITHOUT an add-in (sound or graphics) card ??? any of them?

renethx

03-06-09, 09:39 AM

Auuuggghh! So I'm still unclear on this: Which IGPs, nvidia, amd, or even intel, will support LCPM HDMI audio out WITHOUT an add-in (sound or graphics) card ??? any of them?
- 2 LPCM: 690G/780G/790GX, GeForce 7100/7150 (Intel)/7050 (AMD)
- 8/2 LPCM: GeForce 8200/8300, nForce 750a/780a SLI
- 8/6/4/2 LPCM: GeForce 9300/9400, G45/G43

volga

03-06-09, 11:23 AM

A quick question.
I've build a HTPC according renethx guide with GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H motherboard (many thanks!). And I have e-GeForce 8600 GTS from previous computer.
Will I benefit by installing it or should I keep using GeForce 9400 (integrated in the chipset)?

renethx

03-06-09, 11:30 AM

volga

03-06-09, 02:21 PM

Thanks RENETHX!
As always you are fast on the draw and insightful. :-)

Razumen

03-06-09, 05:33 PM

Thanks for the great help here guys, I truly appreciate it! Due to the issues that have been brought up I've swapped my motherboard choice for one with an IGP solution.(*=new)

*CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core E5200 Dual Core Processor LGA775 2.5GHZ 800FSB 2MB Retail Box
*MB: EVGA nForce 730I GF9300 LGA775 ATX DDR2 1PCI-E16 2PCI-E1 3PCI HDMI Video Sound GBLAN Motherboard
PSU: Enermax Liberty 500W
*GPU: Onboard GF9300
*Cooling: Xigmatek HDT-S1283 Direct Touch 3 Heatpipe Heatsink
*RAM: Patriot Viper Extreme Performance 4GB DDR2 2X2GB PC2-6400
Sound: Creative Audigy 2ZS
Case: Silverstone Lascala LC17B Black ATX HTPC Case

I've gotten a few vague comments saying that going with a P45/G31 chipset would work better, but of course that would require a separate GFX card purchase. Unless there's a better one with IGP that I haven't found yet...

DaveNagy

03-06-09, 06:35 PM

Thank you kindly for the reply.

Since money is tight, I think I'll try to proceed with my current semi-ancient hardware. The most important thing is that I'm able to do the HD DVR stuff. (I'm about to give all my Comcast DVRs back to them, and cut back to the minimum number of channels. That'll save me $100+ a month. After a few months of that, I can think about more hardware upgrades!) :)

If I'm not able to do the "PlayOn" transcoding, so be it. I'll just have to watch that stuff off of an actual computer, rather than streaming it to an Xbox.

Blu-ray will have to wait a while. That's fine. The drive prices aren't quite down into my comfort range yet.

My next big task will be to figure out to best use MCE itself. Can anyone suggest any good resources for the newbie? I thought "The Green Button" would be a good place for that, but I found most of the discussion to be over my head. So many options. I'm looking for some sort of primer.

Thanks again.

Surely you can do many things with your current system. Basically it should be able to handle HD MPEG-2 contents and all SD contents fine.

1. MCE+clear QAM+HDHomeRun should work fine in your system.

2. You can try PlayOn now to see if your system is powerful enough. PlayOn does real-time transcoding and may require some CPU power.

3. This area definitely requires a better graphics card such as HD 4550 as you mentioned because decoding HD video codec H.264 is very demanding. A dual-core processor may be necessary, but then you will have to upgrade MB (AM2/AM2+/AM3 or LGA775) and memory (DDR2 or DDR3) too. You can reuse your case, PSU and HDD with no problem.

davidh44

03-06-09, 07:57 PM

There is no IGP that supports simultaneous dual digital output with 7.1 HDMI audio. Radeon HD 4xxx discrete card is the only solution.Can any IGP pass at least 2-channel audio over HDMI with simultaneous DVI+HDMI output? Or is audio over HDMI just completely out of the question with dual digital output on IGPs?

I wonder why using dual digital outputs would disable audio over HDMI on the G45. I would've thought the audio portion of HDMI wouldn't be affected by whether a DVI output is being used or not.

archibael

03-06-09, 10:31 PM

I suspect it's the underlying architecture. The HDMI audio on G45 is still reliant on a connection between the southbridge and northbridge to mux the Intel HD Audio aka Azalia data in with the video. A few more pins would have been required on each-- or some added complexity of internal circuitry to cope with several use cases (data on one or the other port or data on both simultaneously).

I'm sure it could have been done given enough time and impetus, but on a project with a really tight timeline it was probably viewed as low priority. I suspect but cannot prove that given the architecture of Clarkdale/Arrandale this limitation will go away, but I admit that my understanding of the Ibexpeak feature set is limited.

jlim123

03-07-09, 12:26 AM

Hi guys,

Awesome thread! Looking for opinions here as I may be experiencing buyer's remorse. I am cobbling together a HTPC loosely based on the midrange Intel/Intel build with some old parts combined with new ones. Okay so far:

- E7400 proc
- Silverstone Grandia GD01 case
- Gigabyte GA-EP43-UD3L motherboard
- 4 X 1 GB Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 ram
- LG GBC-20HL Blu-Ray/DVD
- WD10EADS 1 TB HD for media
- Hitachi 250 GB (can't remember model #) for system drive
- Antec Earthwatts 430W psu
- HIS H467QT512P video

I'm having second thoughts about maybe wanting a little more gaming power out of this setup and read elsewhere how the Nvidia 9600GT outperforms the 4670 at higher resolutions while at the same time providing nearly as good video playback quality. I would like to keep my current power supply, but if required, I'll bite the bullet to get a beefier unit. I'd like to try to get a good blend of power and quietness out of this system so I'm now considering maybe the 9600GT or even moving up the ATI ladder and thinking 4830 or 4850. Is there going to be an appreciable power draw difference that would require me to buy a new power supply and can anybody tell me if these higher end cards are noticeably louder?

Thanks!

renethx

03-07-09, 03:26 AM

Can any IGP pass at least 2-channel audio over HDMI with simultaneous DVI+HDMI output? Or is audio over HDMI just completely out of the question with dual digital output on IGPs?

I wonder why using dual digital outputs would disable audio over HDMI on the G45. I would've thought the audio portion of HDMI wouldn't be affected by whether a DVI output is being used or not.
G45 is the best in that it delivers at least dual digital video. All the other IGP can't do that.

If you want to get dual digital + HDMI audio, a discrete card is the only solution.

renethx

03-07-09, 03:36 AM

audioAl1

03-07-09, 07:06 AM

Morning, I have used the AMD 5600+ with an MSI K9 Neo V3 mainboard and a EVGA Nvidia 8600 GTS graphics, 2 gigs of Corsair 800Mhz 5-5-5-18 latency, PS is Thermaltake 430 W TR2. 2nd rig is: ECS Black Series A780GM-A mainboard, HD3200 onboard graphics, 4 gigs Corsair 800 Mhz 5-5-5-18 latency, AMD 4200+ CPU, 450w XION PS and case. Both rigs are fast and fairly quiet. Alan
Edit: The 2nd rig has recently been upgraded with a 500 gig Seagate HDD and a 550 Rocketfish watt PS, , much quieter now!

jnm4lsu

03-07-09, 10:56 AM

jlim123

03-07-09, 11:19 AM

GeForce vs Radeon depends on the audio format you want.

430W is enough for your system+many gaming cards such as 9600 GT (95W max), 9800 GT (105W), GTS 250 (150W), HD 4830 (110W), HD 4850 (110W), 4870 (160W). The total system power consumption even with HD 4870 at peak 3D will be less than 300W. All the cards in my recommendations are very quiet at least at idle and video playback.

Perfect! Thanks for answering my question! Your posts have been extremely informative and helpful. I'm going to decide this weekend on whether or not I'm going to return the 4670 for something a little more robust.

candjhuntley

03-07-09, 11:44 AM

Well - i guess i'll add one more - "Will this work?" Post - sorry about this - but i tried searching and reading a LOT and didn't come up with any answers - so here goes...

I'm building a HTPC for a friend and need to keep the budget down somewhat, but still have enough power for BD playback from the HD and some gaming for his sons. He also stated that he wanted a serial port (RS-232) for his remote system. So here's what i've come up with...

AMD / AMD System - ATX
CPU: X2 5050e - $60
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-MA770-DS3 (This because it was one of the few ATX boards i could find that actually had a serial port and multiple PCI-Ex1 slots) - $90
Video: HIS 4830 with IceQ Cooler - $125 (AR)
RAM: Corsair 4gb (2x2) - $20 (AR)
HD: 2 x WD 1TB Drives (in mirror raid) - $220
Audio: Eventually the best between Auzentech or Asus - but on board for now - ($250?)
Optical: LG's BD / HD-DVD Internal Drive - $120
PSU: Corsair CMPSU-400CX - $30 (AR)
Case: SilverStone LC13B-E - $120
OS: Windows Vista HP - $40
KB/M: Unkown - $90
Total: $1255

Will this work well with playback of BD (particularly off the HD using AnyDVD HD)? Will the 400w Corsair PSU do well enough - especially if we jump to 4 HDs later on?

Thanks for the help!
Chris

renethx

03-07-09, 12:06 PM

just built a new HTPC using gigabyte ep45-ud3p.
I under stand I can't output spdif and analog at same time, but can I swith between the two without rebooting??

I'm also trying to output two analog streams to two different avr's, is this a possibility. Tried the audio jack retasking but can't seem to get it to work. Is there something I'm missing?
Thank you in advance for any help.
You can switch between S/PDIF (Realtek Digital Output) and analog (Speakers) in the Sound dialog box (check a screenshot in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15195715#post15195715)).

Can't you use this simple cable (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=2009&sku=40426)?

renethx

03-07-09, 12:24 PM

candjhuntley

03-07-09, 12:46 PM

Good. A few additional comments:

- You can use many newer mb such as GA-MA780G-UD3H (having a COM internal connector) with a serial port bracket (check Peripheral Components and OS on page 85).

Wow - you know, i read through that, and i guess i was desensitized with information overload i didn't know what i was reading. Wow - i have spent SO MUCH TIME looking for a modern motherboard with serial that this would have been very simple. Unfortunately, the motherboard is a component i've already bought, the motherboard was becoming harder and harder to find (discontinued) and i figured i'd better pick it up while i still could. I know you recommend an upgrade - but does that mean what i have just won't work very well?

- I recommend an ordinary backup using, for example, True Image, instead of RAID 1 (because in HTPC software problems more often happen than HDD failure).

I'm not sure i understand. Do you mean having both HDs installed and after every hd change (download, new BD, DVD, etc) copy the hard drive onto the other one using True Image? So a RAID 1 would be less stable theoretically?

- Unless your friend is an audiophile, HDMI audio from Radeon HD 4850 is enough.

Well - he's certainly not an audiophile - but i also am spending about $2000+ on surround speakers / receiver for him - so i was assuming i would want to make the experience as good as it possibly could be. Would we just not notice enough of a difference to justify the audio card? bc if i can save that $250, he would very much appreciate it i'm sure

And thanks very much for the quick response and help!

renethx

03-07-09, 01:06 PM

jnm4lsu

03-07-09, 01:34 PM

You can switch between S/PDIF (Realtek Digital Output) and analog (Speakers) in the Sound dialog box (check a screenshot in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15195715#post15195715)).

Thank you, I will give HOTKEY a try.

Can't you use this simple cable (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=2009&sku=40426)?

I've tried the splitter route, it works but the sound is terrible. Very distorted, but I will tinker with it somemore.
Thank you for your reply

candjhuntley

03-07-09, 01:35 PM

I am talking about OS (in case of OS collapse, e.g. a codec hell, RAID 1 is not helpful). For data, I still prefer ordinary backup and keep it at a distant place.

Y'know - i hadn't even considered this - so i could have a HD enclosure for the second HD in his main network room and connect it up to the computer that way, and simply have it back up over the network on a daily / weekly basis while he sleeps? Or by distant, did you mean keep it at the office or something?
Thanks again - new areas to explore now!

DaveNagy

03-07-09, 01:49 PM

GeForce vs Radeon depends on the audio format you want.[...]
Could you elaborate (briefly) on that? Is this an HDMI vs. SP/DIF thing, or something else?

renethx

03-07-09, 02:02 PM

Y'know - i hadn't even considered this - so i could have a HD enclosure for the second HD in his main network room and connect it up to the computer that way, and simply have it back up over the network on a daily / weekly basis while he sleeps? Or by distant, did you mean keep it at the office or something?
Thanks again - new areas to explore now!
Just create a complete image of OS at a couple of steps of software installation/tweaking and also periodically after that (in a data disk within the same PC) using Acronis True Image or a similar product. In case something wrong happens to OS, you can restore a good state quickly. (You can't do that with RAID 1.) Software problems could happen more frequently than hard disk failure.

Backing up data is another story. You may want to back up critical data and keep it at a distant place (over network is one option). Less critical data (e.g. ripped movies) ... many people use just single disk, or RAID 5/unRAID (in a separate server; you can still restore complete data in case of one disk failure) because, movies, in particular HD, are too large to make a complete backup.

renethx

03-07-09, 02:07 PM

Could you elaborate (briefly) on that? Is this an HDMI vs. SP/DIF thing, or something else?
GeForce lacks a HD audio controller so that you have to connect the internal S/PDIF connector of the motherboard to the video card to get HDMI audio, and hence HDMI audio is limited to S/PDIF (stereo LPCM, DD, DTS), while Radeon HD 4xxx has its own HD audio controller supporting multichannel LPCM, DD and DTS over HDMI.

icon321

03-07-09, 05:20 PM

Renethx,

Do you have a copy of the guide off line or something? It seems like more times than not, I can't view the charts and images within the forum posts. I would like to review your comparisons of chipsets/video cards again. Thanks.

Edit: It appears that it's working again!

icon321

03-07-09, 11:35 PM

Renethx,

Looking at your chart for the low end system...

If my main interest is BD and interlaced HD and SD, it would appear that an AMD cpu/AMD 4550 would be a better solution than an Intel cpu/Nvidia 9400 igpu. This assumes that I don't need 24p.

Do you agree with that statement? Thanks.

renethx

03-07-09, 11:41 PM

icon321

03-07-09, 11:47 PM

In general 4550 is better in post-processing.

Nevermind, leaning towards the 4550. Thanks for all your help.

Where do you usualy purchase cases from? Newegg is too expensive to ship.

Where do you get the IR remotes from? Couldn't find them at Newegg.

renethx

03-07-09, 11:58 PM

Nevermind, leaning towards the 4550. Thanks for all your help.

Where do you usualy purchase cases from? Newegg is too expensive to ship.

Where do you get the IR remotes from? Couldn't find them at Newegg.
Use Google product search. Provantage is a good place to buy a case/PSU. MS remote (http://www.google.com/products?q=microsoft+remote&hl=en).

nozzey

03-08-09, 04:20 AM

Hi Renethx

I have an Antec 380w psu. Is this enough for the Nvidia GTS 250?

My system is

cpu - amd 4850e
Mb - gigabyte 780g
2 hdds seagate 320 + 750
Hauppauge HVR-2200

Im looking at this card as I might do some gaming.

Thanks

renethx

03-08-09, 04:44 AM

nozzey

03-08-09, 06:13 AM

Yes. Max power consumption of your system at gaming is < 250W.

Thanks, yr help is much appreciated. :)

davidh44

03-08-09, 06:21 AM

G45 is the best in that it delivers at least dual digital video. All the other IGP can't do that.

If you want to get dual digital + HDMI audio, a discrete card is the only solution.
If I have DVI + HDMI hooked up at the same time, do you know if the Intel graphics software make it easy to disable the DVI temporarily so I can get audio over HDMI? And can this temporary transition between 'DVI+HDMI' and 'HDMI+HDMI audio, no DVI' be made without rebooting?

Or would it be more complicated than that, like having to physically disconnect the DVI cable?

Nil Einne

03-08-09, 07:49 AM

Wow - you know, i read through that, and i guess i was desensitized with information overload i didn't know what i was reading. Wow - i have spent SO MUCH TIME looking for a modern motherboard with serial that this would have been very simple. Unfortunately, the motherboard is a component i've already bought, the motherboard was becoming harder and harder to find (discontinued) and i figured i'd better pick it up while i still could. I know you recommend an upgrade - but does that mean what i have just won't work very well?

Well I guess it's too late now but the primary reason why the motherboard is becoming hard to find is because it's been replaced by the UD3 http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2982 (GA-MA770-UD3) which is basically the same thing including with serial but also with Gigabyte's Ultra Durable 3 (which includes support for their Easy Energy Saver tech with AM2+ and AM3 CPUs). There's also the option of using a USB to serial converter

I'm not sure i understand. Do you mean having both HDs installed and after every hd change (download, new BD, DVD, etc) copy the hard drive onto the other one using True Image? So a RAID 1 would be less stable theoretically?

RAID 1 is not a substitute for good backup practices. It's important to understand that which sadly now that RAID has entered the consumer arena many people don't. There are many situations where you could lose data with RAID 1, e.g. malware, partition corruption, array corruption, accidental deletion, simulatenous failure of two hard disks (not as uncommon as it may seem if you consider the possibility of surges and drastic failure of a PSU killing the HD, even worse if you don't shut down the array until you've replaced the broken HDD and you purchased both HDDs at the same time), theft of the the computer or even a natural disaster hitting your home. For important data, it's ideal if you store a backup at a remote location but even if you have the backup at your home in a usually unconnected disk store in a secure but accessible location which you could easily take with you if a flood/whatever is about to hit (e.g. as you may currently do with your passport or other important documents) it's a far better situation then thinking of RAID 1 as a backup.

Well - he's certainly not an audiophile - but i also am spending about $2000+ on surround speakers / receiver for him - so i was assuming i would want to make the experience as good as it possibly could be. Would we just not notice enough of a difference to justify the audio card? bc if i can save that $250, he would very much appreciate it i'm sure

And thanks very much for the quick response and help!

I don't think there's any use of outputting HD audio (by which I mean higher then 48k/16bit). I suggest you look in to how many people can actually tell the difference between 192k/24 bit and 48k/16 bit in any thing you're likely to encounter in the real world. Hydrogen Audio is a good place to start e.g. http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=49843. Then there's also this (in?)famous test http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=14195 and some discussion here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_effect

In any case, the good thing is there's no need to worry about all theoretical discussion. As I understand it, it's just a matter of whether you get the Asus card. Presuming that doesn't change anything else in your config, then just try it yourself. There are ways to get the original bitstream from most BluRays. In some countries this may be illegal even if it's for your personal use and you're not planning to do anything you're not already legally entitled to do but I digress. Once you have the original bitstream in a format that isn't considered DRM protected, you can then output it as LPCM without modification/degradation. Do an ABX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABX_test) on the two samples and see if you can hear a difference. Choose whatever sample you think is most demanding and obviously choose a 96k/24bit sample. Report your results. I expect you'd find you don't hear any difference.

The only problem you may have is doing a proper ABX. Normally this is easy on a computer, there are various software programs which can do it. The trouble in your case is you ideally want to test the output of WinDVD (or whatever you're using). I don't know if it's easy to record the uncompressed 48k/16bit output of WinDVD unmodified but if it is, this is probably the easiest thing. Then you have two files, one 96khz/24bit one the WinDVD 48khz/16bit output which you can give to a ABX program. You can of course downgrade the 96khz/24bit manually the trouble then is the algorithm WinDVD uses may be crap so you aren't comparing to what you would be hearing (although it would be an interesting test if you find you can hear the difference)

P.S. It's vital you use the downgraded HD audio sample for the test. Do not use the DTS or any other track. These are often mastered differently and of course have compression artifacts to worry about (although DTS 1536kbps is very nearly transparent anyway).

jnm4lsu

03-08-09, 11:42 AM

[QUOTE=renethx;15989482]You can switch between S/PDIF (Realtek Digital Output) and analog (Speakers) in the Sound dialog box (check a screenshot in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15195715#post15195715)).

Thank you Rene this works like a charm..

I am still having a poblem with video, specifically in extended mode I don't get any video on my TV from any media players (PDVD or WMP). It works fine in clone mode but not extended. I can see my desktop on the TV and when I try Identify the TV shows 2. But no video.
Any insight into this? Or is clone mode the way to go?

GA-EP45UDP and ATI Radeon HD-3800
HDMI out to Sony KD-XBR
SPDIF out to Yamaha AVR

thank you in advance.

peaces

03-08-09, 11:55 AM

I am ready to connect the HTPC to the AVR... But before I start...

The HDMI output on the HTPC to the LCD - I have to set the input on the LCD to be a PC (this is true with two LCDs both 2008 models samsung and mitubishi). I have a MoBo with the NVidia 9400 on board chip set. Had a Gigabyte, and now a DFI. Both require this for correct scaling at the mobo setting of 1080p (regardless of hz).

Here is the quesion... Almost all AVR pass-thru the 1080P HDMI signal. The satelite receiver and the Blu-Ray player (for example) can be hooked up to the LCD with a bunch of different selections for the LCD Input devices (HDMI, Sat, DVD,...) all display great... The PC however has to be set to PC on the TV input - other wise the resolution is not scalled correctly - again both MoBos, common item 9400 chipset. So, when I connect the PC, and the Sat (1080p output) to the AVR, and the one HDMI out from the AVR to the LCD. Will i have a problem?

I know the signal from the PC mobo HDMI is different then the other Video signals like the BluRay player and the Satelite Receiver... So if the AVR passes thru the signal, the LCD will not scale correctly for the PC, but will for the other two. If I set the LCD input form the AVR to be connected to a PC it will scale the PC correctly, but not the other two.... So why is the HDMI signal from the MoBo different from the HDMI signal from the Sat Reciever or the Blue Ray player?

Is this just the way it is? Will a Xonar 1.3 fix this? Is this why the card process the video signal? Like I said these might be dumb questions, but I am confussed.

Nil Einne

03-08-09, 01:11 PM

HQV/HD HQV Benchmark is subjective in the sense that there is no absolute standards of scoring (HQV's criteria are too obscure) so that each reviewer gives scores based on his own critera. The results also depend on the graphics driver and the player. Nevertheless comparing two cards using the benchmark is not so difficult and imo pretty objective.

I didn't mention 4650 simply because there is not enough time (and money) to test it. The only difference between 4650 and 4670 is core/mem clock (and GDDR2 vs GDDR3). If you can find a good quiet 4650 card that does not suffer from the "greyed out buttons issue", that should be a good choice. In US, the price difference is so small (check 4650 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&N=2010380048&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44046&bop=And&Order=REVIEWS) vs 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045) at Newegg.com) that I thought it's not worth my effort to pinpoint the best 4650 card. Moreover my mid-range system also aims at modest gaming performance. I have to draw a line somewhere ...

Thanks a lot again for the clarification. So yeah looks like it'll be fine to stick to the 4650.

This has been a very roundabout trip :-) At first I was thinking Intel. Then I noticed IGPs are quite expensive for them so I started thinking AMD. (And when I looked in to it more, I realised AMD would be a fair amount cheaper considering decent mobo+CPU even if more power hungry under load and weaker, plus AMD would hopefully more upgradable in the future since AM3 is still fresh but 775 is dying.) Then I realised IGPs don't have component out so I started concentrating on a standalone video card because they didn't have their HDTV yet. (I also got distracted by the MSI Live Diva but after some discussion with the people I'm putting the comp together for decided against it.) But now it looks like the HDTV will be purchased soon so the component out doesn't matter (another problem with the 4550 is the passive one I've seen here lacks component out). But I also quickly noticed the post processing differences and it's definitely important because a lot of content will be SDTV as one of the FTA channels here in NZ is still analogue and all the new channels of our digital platform are SDTV. And one of the HDTV channels is 1080i too. And because of the price and they already have a DVD drive, there's not going to be a BluRay drive yet. So it seems my decision to go stand alone and specifically the 4650 remains solid even if stuff has changed. Plus I save some money by getting a 5000+ (no AMD EE processors available here :-( ) instead of a Phenom/7750e so price difference isn't so great :-) Of course maybe passive isn't necessary, I'm not aiming for extreme silence (the comp is going to be in a glass covered shelf) but it's a bit risky (unlike e.g. AMD CPU fan which can be easily replaced).

I would agree that the 4670 is a better deal if you were gaming. If I were putting this together for myself I would probably choose the 4670 (well actually since I don't care about noise that much and I'm not aiming for HDMI audio probably either the 4830 or 9600 but anyway). But the comp I'm putting together is for someone who has absolutely no interest in gaming so there's little point worrying about that. The GPU may get some minor use in other things like Photoshop but I doubt it'd be much so to keep costs down the 4650 seems best. Here in NZ, there's no real difference between the price of 4550 vs 4650 active cooled but passive it's a about 20% more for the 4650 (and also double slot). But given the big difference between the 4550 and 4650 in specs (shaders) and the poorer post processing the 4650 is worth it. The 4670 is a different story. Active it's about 1/3 extra for the 512mb 4650 vs 512mb 4670. Passive it's the same (1/3 difference) but comparing a 512mb 4650 to a 1gb 4670 (no passive 512 4670 I've come across here). Both are the HIS iSilence4. While the difference isn't that great, particularly when you consider the whole system cost, it doesn't seem worth it for something that's never likely to be used.

Anyway things are coming together now. Let's hope the new stock of the GA-MA780G-UD3H really arrives on Wednesday as it's supposed to then I'll be set.

P.S. The typical poor availability of components here in NZ combined with our currency being very weak at the moment meaning prices of some components have gone up hasn't helped. :-(