Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 31

blinkinek

04-16-09, 05:44 PM

Hello,

I'm a little confused from all this informations but here is what I would like to achieve.

Main requirements:
- hdmi 5.1 pcm over onkyo AVR
- sd/hd playback
- maybe in future BD (I'm still considering buying PS3)

This is what I've built:
Antec Basiq 350 Watt
Silverstone SST-SG02B-F Sugo - black
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e BOX, Socket AM2
Gigabyte GA-MA69VM-S2, AMD 690V, mATX
Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4
Mushkin SP2-6400 2x2GB Kit, DDR2-800
Western Digital Caviar GP 1TB

unfortunately in a shop from which I would like to buy everything there is no GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-US2H, I've chosen the other Gigabyte board but I don't know if I will have the same functionality (soundcard is older...)? If this board isn't going to work what would you recommend?

Another solution would be going for GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H and E5200 without HD 4670 but I don't know if the PQ won't be worse?

I was also thinking about mini-itx. Is it possible to build one with HD 4670 card in Apex MI-100 case? Or maybe Intel/Nvidia setup will be enough for me?

Franke46

04-16-09, 08:17 PM

I tried the GA-MA78GM-US2H, it didn't work with my ONKYO RECEIVER, only audio I was able to get was going directly to the TV. I had to use an optical cable from the same MB to the receiver and then I got up to DTS. So I would recommend the GA-E7AUM-DS2H, I will be trying that myself.

Franke46

blackranger3d

04-16-09, 11:40 PM

I just realized just how intensive HD video playback is. None of my computers at home can play full 720P 60FPS except my dad's PC which is E8400 + 4GB RAM + Gigabyte G35 + X700 Vid.

My oudated PC which is AMD 3200+ Venice and infamous DFI LanParty nF4 only plays about half the frames from 60. My dual core Intel laptop plays about 40FPS.

Now I'm thinking of building something more powerful than Zotac setup hmmmm.

What video card are you using on the AMD 3200 (is this a AMD 64 3200).

I'm playing around with

Old Parts I had laying around
Lanparty nF4
AMD 64 3500,
1 GB of Ram
300 GB HDD

New Parts
Saphire HD4650
Antec Fussion ATX Case

I figure I can play with this for a while.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but with a dedicated VC this should be able to handle HD files.

If it works for my needs than great if not I'll replace the old stuff.

r0nd3L

04-17-09, 01:13 AM

All about the video card...not necessarily the CPU

See that's the interesting thing, my PC has X800XL which is quite a bit better than X700 in the E8400 machine.

What video card are you using on the AMD 3200 (is this a AMD 64 3200).

X800XL and yes it's AMD 3200+ which is overclocked 3.4Ghz from 3.0.

Also for comparison reasons, when I watched that specific video the AMD 3200 was at 100% CPU usage, while E8400 was only 30%.

OzTambo

04-17-09, 01:53 AM

Hi renethx.....

Can I get your 2 cents on this mobo ........ MSI KA780GM2 AMD 780G AM2+ (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10010176&prodlist=celebros)

I currently have an ECS 740 GM-M

AMD X4 9750
2x2GB Patriot RAM (4GB Total)
2 x 1TB Hitachi Hard Drives
BluRay Reader
ATI 3650 with HDMI with Audio out
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR 1800
Vista Ultimate 64bit

I am thinking about adding this Mobo can I please get your advice do you think and am gaining anything....

I have current issues with Audio over HDMI when the TV has been off for a while and the ATI drivers do not boot up fast enough thus Media Center has to be closd and re-opened.

That is about the only reason i am changing.

I do very little ripping on this system, I have media extenders on three TV's that this drives mainly movies and music that is stored on the drives and all using MCE.

I am mainly trying to fix the audio and the video drivers by integrating the HDMI into the Mobo..

Will the ATI Radeon HD3200 with only 256MB drive a 37 LCD at 1080I the spec says it should but I have very little experience about this..

pspeters

04-17-09, 03:04 AM

renethx

04-17-09, 04:10 AM

renethx

04-17-09, 04:19 AM

Hi,

Great guide, by the way!

I have the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H. Some times it studder ( I use MPC-HC DXVA). Might not be the system, might be the files, might be the cpu ( Intel Core duo 2.13GHZ - is this performing enough? never over 50% It's cache is too small perhaps?). I see you recommend a discrete gpu as well on some of the systems. This might be for gaming purposes(?). Will it handle the HD VIDEOS (.mkv 1080p) better than the iGPU? Can I still use the HDMI output from the mobo. What about the 8500 GT which gives you what Nvidia calls geforce boost ( more bang for buck that way)? I'm only interested in hd performance, noe gaming. Your answer is anticipated :)

Cut from mid-range recommandations:

# Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H LGA775 GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX, $130. A cheaper alternative is MSI P7NGM-Digital LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU microATX, $110, which is of better value if you don't need an S/PDIF port and an eSATA port.
# Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $27.
# Graphics Card: ASUS EN9500GT TOP/DI/512M GeForce 9500 GT, $88.
GPU has enough power to handle 1080p mkv. CPU usage 50% means that the problem is not CPU but something else. E6400 with 2MB L2 should be enough. Try overclocking. There are many factors that affects video playback: OS, video renderer, source/splitter filter, video/audio filter, VSFilter, video/audio formats in mkv (mkv is just a container), bad mkv file etc. GeForce Boost is gaming only, there is almost no effect on video playback. Please tell your audio requirement precisely. HDMI to what?, TV or AVR? If you use AVR, an ATI card is better.

renethx

04-17-09, 04:34 AM

blinkinek

04-17-09, 05:13 AM

What's exactly your problem? GA-MA69VM-S2 is fine (potential problems are non-support for HyperTransport 3.0 which does not affect 5050e and weak SB).

Are you thinking of building a second HTPC or replacing the system you built? If the answer is the latter, you will waste your money.

Thank you for the reply and sorry for misleading you, with the sentence "This is what I've built" I meant "This is what I plan to build"... I haven't bought any of the hardware parts yet.

so with this setup I should have no problems if I would like to play bluray discs in the future?

or maybe it would be better to go for your AMD/NVIDIA mini ITX build, replace the CPU with X2 5050e and add Sapphire HD4670? But would it fit in Apex MI-100 case? I won't need another expansion slot...

renethx

04-17-09, 06:05 AM

Thank you for the reply and sorry for misleading you, with the sentence "This is what I've built" I meant "This is what I plan to build"... I haven't bought any of the hardware parts yet.

so with this setup I should have no problems if I would like to play bluray discs in the future?

or maybe it would be better to go for your AMD/NVIDIA mini ITX build, replace the CPU with X2 5050e and add Sapphire HD4670? But would it fit in Apex MI-100 case? I won't need another expansion slot...
If you buy a new mb, there is no reason choose a 690V mb over 780G mb. Doesn't your shop have any other 780G mb, such as ASUS and MSI?

Graphics card is everything for video playback. Mini-ITX is OK, but a mb is pricey and you can't use a 2-slot graphics card. Unless you really want a Mini-ITX system (i.e. small form factor), I recommend a mATX system.

blinkinek

04-17-09, 06:39 AM

If you buy a new mb, there is no reason choose a 690V mb over 780G mb. Doesn't your shop have any other 780G mb, such as ASUS and MSI?

Graphics card is everything for video playback. Mini-ITX is OK, but a mb is pricey and you can't use a 2-slot graphics card. Unless you really want a Mini-ITX system (i.e. small form factor), I recommend a mATX system.

they have Asus M3A78-VM 780g or a little bit cheaper Asus M3N78-VM, NVIDIA GeForce 8200. Which one would be better?

Also they only have Sapphire HD 4670, PCI-E 2.0, 1024MB GDDR3 - is it worse / louder than the one you recommend?

As it comes to Mini-ITX, MB is pricey (about 100$ more) but I can save on the case + psu (about 100$ so it would be even). But I think Sapphire HD 4670 is 1-slot card? You wouldn't recommend putting it into this Apex case? I think there would be no airflow for the graphic card because there would be no room between the side of the case and the card - this isn't going to work? Maybe passive one then?

Egomaniacal1

04-17-09, 07:05 AM

Will an AMD FX-51(2.20GHz with 1gig ram) be enough to playback mkv files at 1080p(or at least 720p) with the Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4?

I have an old MSI board(K8NGM2-FID) that i want to use now while i work up to a better and more expensive build.

pspeters

04-17-09, 07:31 AM

GPU has enough power to handle 1080p mkv. CPU usage 50% means that the problem is not CPU but something else. E6400 with 2MB L2 should be enough. Try overclocking. There are many factors that affects video playback: OS, video renderer, source/splitter filter, video/audio filter, VSFilter, video/audio formats in mkv (mkv is just a container), bad mkv file etc. GeForce Boost is gaming only, there is almost no effect on video playback. Please tell your audio requirement precisely. HDMI to what?, TV or AVR? If you use AVR, an ATI card is better.

Thanks for the quick reply. Why is ATI better? I use coax rca for sound today because of connectivity problems with my AVR Yamaha 663. It seems it looses the connection when I change the HDMI-input to ps3 for example. Gefen HDMI Detective Plus solves this by replicating the EDID from the AVR to the pc, but it costs as much as the mobo(whack). Does ATI not have this problem? I heard their worse :confused: Perhaps it can just "lock" the HDTV EDID and never fall out by some other means?

renethx

04-17-09, 07:52 AM

they have Asus M3A78-VM 780g or a little bit cheaper Asus M3N78-VM, NVIDIA GeForce 8200. Which one would be better?

Also they only have Sapphire HD 4670, PCI-E 2.0, 1024MB GDDR3 - is it worse / louder than the one you recommend?

As it comes to Mini-ITX, MB is pricey (about 100$ more) but I can save on the case + psu (about 100$ so it would be even). But I think Sapphire HD 4670 is 1-slot card? You wouldn't recommend putting it into this Apex case? I think there would be no airflow for the graphic card because there would be no room between the side of the case and the card - this isn't going to work? Maybe passive one then?
Either board is fine, but M3N78-VM is slightly easier to configure. The 1-slot card is louder than Sapphire GDDR4 (in particular at 3D load). But if you insist on Mini-ITX, then HD 4670 1-slot is good. If the form factor does not matter, go with mATX. (Where are you going to place the HTPC? For a normal AV rack, a mATX case fits better?)

renethx

04-17-09, 07:52 AM

Will an AMD FX-51(2.20GHz with 1gig ram) be enough to playback mkv files at 1080p(or at least 720p) with the Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4?
Yes.

renethx

04-17-09, 07:58 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. Why is ATI better? I use coax rca for sound today because of connectivity problems with my AVR Yamaha 663. It seems it looses the connection when I change the HDMI-input to ps3 for example. Gefen HDMI Detective Plus solves this by replicating the EDID from the AVR to the pc, but it costs as much as the mobo(whack). Does ATI not have this problem? I heard their worse :confused: Perhaps it can just "lock" the HDTV EDID and never fall out by some other means?
Here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16032183#post16032183) I am not sure of the current status of 663. If the situation has not changed with the latest CCC driver, you are out of luck. :o

dbmix

04-17-09, 10:42 AM

Hey Renethx and everyone!

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a small scale home media server, that will also act as a backup for my regular PC's and my ReplayTV's

I was lloking at your suggestions for a 15 TB system, but I will probably start more in the 6 - 8 Terabyte area and add to that as necessary.

Equipment wise I was cherry picking by need from you list:

Cooler Master Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP (9 x 5.25″ bay), $56 (from Remarks area)
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V , $75. (it's on sale)
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 5200+ ADO5200DOBOX 2.7GHz AM2, $57.
CPU Cooler: Stock Cooler, $0.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA780G-UD3H AM2+ AMD 780G chipset ATX, $90.
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $27.
Graphics: Radeon HD 3200 (integrated in the chipset), $0.
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
Total Cost: $400 (storage drives are not included

don't think I need the HDD cages and extra sata controllers to get me started.

Will probably use OpenSolaris as the OS 'cause I like the ZFS file system. And I want to run some other programs on this server such as File backup software and DVArchive for the ReplayTVs

Any updates you would make hardware wise, or any further comments would be appreciated.

ClemsonKev

04-17-09, 10:47 AM

dbone1026

04-17-09, 10:51 AM

I am streaming Media Center to my 360/Plasma. Love the QAM in HD thanks to TV PACK 2008 and my Hauppauge 950Q.

QUESTION: What is the easiest and free way to stream Hulu and the networks online offerings to the 360 also?

(I did google and saw the PlayOn thing for $40, but I want real world opinions from this group; plus 'free') ;)

I have not seen any other viable option for getting to the 360. You can try SecondRun.tv or TunerFreeMCE, but I have read that it doesn't play well with the 360 (not sure if that is still the case)

lubmar

04-17-09, 11:22 AM

OzTambo

04-17-09, 11:31 AM

What is exactly your audio problem? Perhaps you won't see improvement. Rather using Phenom (HT 3600MHz) with a HT 2000MHz mb is a kind of problem.

The audio I have issues with is my 3650 outputting via HDMI, everything runs great until I shut the TV down. When I bring the TV up again I intermittently loose sound.

I can get around this using audio out into the RCA in on the TV.

The other issue with sound is that when I have VMC boot I have it in the start up programs and the ATI sound drivers does not load fast enough thus VCE has no sound. I have added a delay in the services but still no love.

I was looking at the MSI Mbo as it had 5 sec boot up specs with HDMI according to the reviews..

renethx

04-17-09, 12:10 PM

I have 3 memory sticks 1GB each,
(os: xp pro, cpu: am2 x2 3800+ , mobo: ga-ma770-ud3, mem: ocz platiniun 4-4-4)
-when I put 2 of them I have 2GB dual channel,
-when I put 3 of them I have 3GB single channel
Which config is better? more channels or more memory?
A question is: better for what? In general HTPC usage, dual channel is critical only for IGP, but this is not your case. That being said, I recommend 2GB dual channel (as perhaps you rarely use 3GB, in particular under XP).

renethx

04-17-09, 12:19 PM

The audio I have issues with is my 3650 outputting via HDMI, everything runs great until I shut the TV down. When I bring the TV up again I intermittently loose sound.

I can get around this using audio out into the RCA in on the TV.

The other issue with sound is that when I have VMC boot I have it in the start up programs and the ATI sound drivers does not load fast enough thus VCE has no sound. I have added a delay in the services but still no love.

I was looking at the MSI Mbo as it had 5 sec boot up specs with HDMI according to the reviews..
So HDMI audio is connected to TV speakers and goes nowhere else, right? Then is there any advantage of using HDMI audio? For me changing HD 3650 to HD 3200 is a downgrade of PQ.

hybridcj

04-17-09, 01:31 PM

I have 3 memory sticks 1GB each,
(os: xp pro, cpu: am2 x2 3800+ , mobo: ga-ma770-ud3, mem: ocz platiniun 4-4-4)
-when I put 2 of them I have 2GB dual channel,
-when I put 3 of them I have 3GB single channel
Which config is better? more channels or more memory?

just a follow up to renethx... it may be easier to overclock if you only run dual channel (some motherboards get funky with the added stick of memory and clock it down). just something to consider.

do you only have 3 slots or do you only have 3 sticks? if you have an extra slot, you could always add a stick to make it run in dual channel with 4gb (although completely useless in xp and marginally useless in 32 bit vista).

pcmike

04-17-09, 01:38 PM

You sure all your hardware is supported under Solaris? Last time I looked into building a Solaris fileserver it was a nightmare hardware wise.

Hey Renethx and everyone!

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a small scale home media server, that will also act as a backup for my regular PC's and my ReplayTV's

I was lloking at your suggestions for a 15 TB system, but I will probably start more in the 6 - 8 Terabyte area and add to that as necessary.

Equipment wise I was cherry picking by need from you list:

Cooler Master Centurion 590 RC-590-KKN1-GP (9 x 5.25″ bay), $56 (from Remarks area)
PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V , $75. (it's on sale)
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 5200+ ADO5200DOBOX 2.7GHz AM2, $57.
CPU Cooler: Stock Cooler, $0.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA780G-UD3H AM2+ AMD 780G chipset ATX, $90.
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $27.
Graphics: Radeon HD 3200 (integrated in the chipset), $0.
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
Total Cost: $400 (storage drives are not included

don't think I need the HDD cages and extra sata controllers to get me started.

Will probably use OpenSolaris as the OS 'cause I like the ZFS file system. And I want to run some other programs on this server such as File backup software and DVArchive for the ReplayTVs

Any updates you would make hardware wise, or any further comments would be appreciated.

jszei

04-17-09, 01:49 PM

lubmar

04-17-09, 02:12 PM

just a follow up to renethx... it may be easier to overclock if you only run dual channel (some motherboards get funky with the added stick of memory and clock it down). just something to consider.

do you only have 3 slots or do you only have 3 sticks? if you have an extra slot, you could always add a stick to make it run in dual channel with 4gb (although completely useless in xp and marginally useless in 32 bit vista).

thanks
the mobo has 4 slots and i have 3 sticks,
i use the computer mostly for:
internet
family pics
copy dvd (sd)
record and play ota - hdtv

the bigest cpu % is from internet use ... so no plans for overcloking or adding more ram, i was just wondering if to keep all 3 sticks in, or only 2

pcmike

04-17-09, 02:44 PM

Maybe another option is remote control via VNC or logmein.com or something similar on a laptop upstairs? Just an idea.

My HTPC will be in the basement connected to my AVR via HDMI.
I want to be able to use a keyboard and mouse to control it. The viewing area is about 50 ft. away and on the first floor, so it's separated from the PC by a floor.

What keyboard/mouse options do I have given the PC will be a floor below and 50ft. away?

I also have the Harmony 890 which I will be using with R/F to control everything possible: display, AVR, blu-ray, etc. I would like it to control the PC as well if possible. My understanding is I will need an IR device connected to the PC which needs to connect to the Harmony RF wireless extender. Has anyone done this?

dbone1026

04-17-09, 03:04 PM

My HTPC will be in the basement connected to my AVR via HDMI.
I want to be able to use a keyboard and mouse to control it. The viewing area is about 50 ft. away and on the first floor, so it's separated from the PC by a floor.

What keyboard/mouse options do I have given the PC will be a floor below and 50ft. away?

I also have the Harmony 890 which I will be using with R/F to control everything possible: display, AVR, blu-ray, etc. I would like it to control the PC as well if possible. My understanding is I will need an IR device connected to the PC which needs to connect to the Harmony RF wireless extender. Has anyone done this?

I have the Harmony 890 with RF wireless extender and can control my HTPC using an IR receiver. I don't know how likely this will work though if you are 50 ft away from your HTPC. Same goes for a wireless keyboard/mouse. I would recommend the Logitech diNovo mini which is Blue Tooth. It has good range but once again 50ft may be asking for too much

SeattleHTGuy

04-17-09, 03:20 PM

I don't think the DiNovo mini will cut it. I did have a friend who had an I-touch with an app that controlled his whole system via wi-fi. Pretty cool really but the DiNovo won't go 50 ft through walls and a floor.

jszei

04-17-09, 04:07 PM

I have the Harmony 890 with RF wireless extender and can control my HTPC using an IR receiver. I don't know how likely this will work though if you are 50 ft away from your HTPC. Same goes for a wireless keyboard/mouse. I would recommend the Logitech diNovo mini which is Blue Tooth. It has good range but once again 50ft may be asking for too much

What IR receiver do you use and does it work well?

My HTPC will be directly under my AVR, Bluray, etc. I can extend any cable, whether it be a bluetooth or IR receiver up to the first floor. This would also cut the distance down by about 20 feet.

Maybe another option is remote control via VNC or logmein.com or something similar on a laptop upstairs? Just an idea.

I'd like to be able to use my 60in. plasma to view the Internet, apps and games from the PC so this wouldn't work. Thanks for the idea though.

Bisclavaret

04-17-09, 04:10 PM

As many have said and many will continue to say - Renethex, thanks for all your work on this guide.

I'm really thinking about taking the dive into HTPC - I'm sick of playing the "where did my kids hide the DVD" game. I was looking at your handy chart, Renethex, it's great. I know that everything's based around good HD content playback (as it should be). For me, I'm just looking at doing mass ripping of DVD's (AnyDVD or DVDFabDecrypter, straight rips no reencoding) for storage on HDD's and playback through VMC, with Media Browser or MyMovies for organization - make it as simple as possible for Wife Approval Factor. No Blu-Ray (yet) or DVR recording.

Do you think there's going to be a real quality difference between a Geforce 9300 system or using a 780g board with a HD4670 for playback of straight-ripped DVD's on a 720p DLP? The comp would be hooked directly to the TV via HDMI. I'll admit, I'm leaning towards the 780g system, since AMD looks like it will still have a processor upgrade path in 18 months thanks to AM2+ processors, whereas LGA775 is at end of life. However, the Intel system is a little cheaper overall, and I really don't want to spend any money I don't have to.

Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but Vista 32-bit has a 2TB limit on drive size, so I couldn't use two 1.5TB drives in a RAID 0 in the comp for mass media storage. I've read in several places that 64-bit Vista has issues with some Media Center add-ons - are MyMovies or Media Browser two add-ins with such issues? They're theoretically the only plugins I should need since I'm just doing straight MPEG-2 playback which I believe is already hardware accelerated in VMC. Once again, feel free to correct anything I've got wrong - I've been doing a ton of reading on this for a long time, and it's all turning to soup in my brain.

MrFoxer

04-17-09, 04:45 PM

Also - correct me if I'm wrong, but Vista 32-bit has a 2TB limit on drive size, so I couldn't use two 1.5TB drives in a RAID 0 in the comp for mass media storage.

Windows Vista 32 bit supports two types of disk partitioning: Master Boot Record (MBR) and Globally Unique Identifier Partition Table (GPT). MBR are limited to 2TB. GPT under Vista supports NTFS-formatted disks up to 256 TB in size.

Vista can only boot from a GPT disk if your system uses Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) instead of BIOS. But you can always have GPT data drives even if your system drive is MBR.

I boot MBR and use a 6 TB GPT data disk under Vista 32 bit.

pcmike

04-17-09, 04:53 PM

I use logmein.com right now to control my HTPC while viewing it on my 40" display, so why would it not work for you?

What IR receiver do you use and does it work well?

My HTPC will be directly under my AVR, Bluray, etc. I can extend any cable, whether it be a bluetooth or IR receiver up to the first floor. This would also cut the distance down by about 20 feet.

I'd like to be able to use my 60in. plasma to view the Internet, apps and games from the PC so this wouldn't work. Thanks for the idea though.

dbmix

04-17-09, 05:03 PM

You sure all your hardware is supported under Solaris? Last time I looked into building a Solaris fileserver it was a nightmare hardware wise.
The motherboard is on the list of working hardware.

Not much else in there to worry about as far as I can tell.

dbone1026

04-17-09, 05:16 PM

What IR receiver do you use and does it work well?

My HTPC will be directly under my AVR, Bluray, etc. I can extend any cable, whether it be a bluetooth or IR receiver up to the first floor. This would also cut the distance down by about 20 feet.

I just bought a cheap MCE remote (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121001) that comes with an IR Receiver. If you can extend then you can use a receiver like the one I just mentioned and add on a USB extension.

jszei

04-17-09, 06:00 PM

I use logmein.com right now to control my HTPC while viewing it on my 40" display, so why would it not work for you?

Where do you use logmein.com from?

pcmike

04-17-09, 07:19 PM

OzTambo

04-17-09, 10:26 PM

So HDMI audio is connected to TV speakers and goes nowhere else, right? Then is there any advantage of using HDMI audio? For me changing HD 3650 to HD 3200 is a downgrade of PQ.

OK... I will stay with the setup and try to figure out the sound issues and why HDMI Audio does not work all the time..

Thanks again

jstutman

04-17-09, 10:50 PM

Why not Ammy Admin? No registration, can run as service on HTPC...can be accessed by any pc on your network that has your code (you just have to give it permission)

slowlybuilt

04-18-09, 12:30 AM

I'm in the process of researching/building my first HTPC. I'm looking at minimizing costs and using the templates laid out in this tread. I'm leaning towards the low end AMD/Nvidia build and found the Athlon X2 7750 Black Edition AD775ZWCGHBOX 2.7GHz AM2+ and the MSI K9N2GM-FIH AM2+ GeForce 8200 mGPU microATX for $147 shipped, $132 after rebate from newegg.

Its in my cart now, but after looking at the pics of the mobo and the Hauppage 2250, it looks like the heat sink on the mobo is going to be in the way because of the length of the card and the placement of the PCI express slot.

Is this going to be a problem?

The primary purpose of this HTPC is as a DVR (95%) with possible bluray playback added down the road, so its very important that the 2250 fits!

renethx

04-18-09, 05:55 AM

AngelReign

04-18-09, 05:56 AM

that is an amazing topic of you!!

slowlybuilt

04-18-09, 06:36 AM

No problem. The heatsink is L-shaped and won't block a PCEe x1 card.

Thanks!

This is what I'm looking at building. How does it look?

RAIDMAX APEX ATX-802B Black SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

HITACHI 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive

MSI K9N2GM-FIH AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8200 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor Model AD775ZWCGHBOX

SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q

All of the above purchased from the egg for $260 AR.

4GB DDR2 PC6400 TWINX MEMORY / CORSAIR

Antec Basiq 350W Refurbished ATX Continuous Power Power Supply

Those from Fry's for $45 AR

+ Hauppage 2250, which I'm still looking for a deal on
+ OS, which I'm looking for a friend of a friend to get me a student discount

So I'm up to $305, but I still need the all important tuner and OS. I would like the keep the cost as close to $400 as possible, but I think this might end up being more in the neighborhood of $500. Any suggestions on cutting costs?

renethx

04-18-09, 07:39 AM

Any suggestions on cutting costs?
Windows 7? Beta (free) expires in July 2009 and RC (free; expected in May) expires in June 2010. Eventually you have to pay, though.

dbmix

04-18-09, 10:30 AM

The motherboard is on the list of working hardware.

Not much else in there to worry about as far as I can tell.
But I didn't really want this to be about the OpenSolaris, was just doing a checkup on the hardware suggestions...

gpounders

04-18-09, 01:09 PM

Windows 7? Beta (free) expires in July 2009 and RC (free; expected in May) expires in June 2010. Eventually you have to pay, though.

What is the best ATX Intel motherboard with onboard video that will work the best with Windows 7 beta or RC? I want to do HD playback and DVR functions.

Also, it appears from the Microsoft website that you can't get the beta anymore? Anyone know how to get it?

vida69

04-18-09, 01:35 PM

hey renethx.. my respects to you for a very good informative thread..
but i have a quick question..
i currently have a 8800 gtx that does not do HA.. im planning in keeping this card as my pc monitor and for gaming..
however im interested in a cheap solution to get HA and audio out through a 2nd video card connected to my hdtv..
whats the cheapest best video card out there that can handle blu ray, 1080p mkv files and does audio out as well? ive been reading through the thread and it looks like ati is the way to go but im wondering if you can shine a little light into which model should i go with. thank you

edit: will this card do the trick: Radeon HD 3450 256MB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ?? anyone?

renethx

04-18-09, 03:33 PM

What is the best ATX Intel motherboard with onboard video that will work the best with Windows 7 beta or RC? I want to do HD playback and DVR functions.

Also, it appears from the Microsoft website that you can't get the beta anymore? Anyone know how to get it?
Audio requirement? HDMI (stereo LPCM, DD, DTS), HDMI (multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS), S/PDIF (coaxial or optical; stereo LPCM, DD, DTS) or analog (multichannel)?

Win 7 Beta 7077 is leaked on the Internet. RC should be availabe from MS site.

pirspilane

04-18-09, 08:04 PM

Which audio are you going to use, NVIDIA HDMI (in this case your receiver needs to support HDMI) or onboard audio S/PDIF?

- NVIDIA HDMI audio does not support 44.1kHz (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16032183#post16032183)).
- Realtek ALC1200 S/PDIF supports it.
- VT1708S S/PDIF perhaps supports it (here (http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/audio/codecs/hd-codecs.jsp)).

I've been discussing the relative merits of these boards with djordan. I'm going to be playing a lot of Apple Lossless (aka ALAC) files and was wondering if the ASUS M4N78, which uses the VIA1708S codec would do "bit perfect" output through S/PDIF. Or, would I have better sound using the M3N78 with its Realtek® ALC1200 codec?

Just to make sure I understand, the NVIDIA 8300 chipset does the audio processing using VIA or Realtek codecs, is that right? In other words, there's no VIA or Realtek hardware on the board, just firmware?

Finally, I noticed the recommended systems use the M3N78 board. But I understand the M4N78 is the latest version. Any reason to prefer one over the other (aside from the differences in i/o ports & memory capacity)?

renethx

04-18-09, 09:30 PM

vida69

04-18-09, 09:39 PM

GeForce and Radeon work togehter only under Windows XP. If you use Vista, you have to use a GeForce card. The cheapest card that supports HA and HDMI audio (S/PDIF pass-through) is 8400 GS.
im actually under windows 7.. so im assuming its the same case as in vista..
thx for your help.

renethx

04-18-09, 10:03 PM

I've been discussing the relative merits of these boards with djordan. I'm going to be playing a lot of Apple Lossless (aka ALAC) files and was wondering if the ASUS M4N78, which uses the VIA1708S codec would do "bit perfect" output through S/PDIF. Or, would I have better sound using the M3N78 with its Realtek® ALC1200 codec?

Just to make sure I understand, the NVIDIA 8300 chipset does the audio processing using VIA or Realtek codecs, is that right? In other words, there's no VIA or Realtek hardware on the board, just firmware?

Finally, I noticed the recommended systems use the M3N78 board. But I understand the M4N78 is the latest version. Any reason to prefer one over the other (aside from the differences in i/o ports & memory capacity)?
Bit-perfect means that the player decodes the codec in LPCM in its original bit-depth/sample rate, then sends audio samples to the driver of the sound playback device bypassing Windows audio engine (Vista) or Kernel Audio Mixer (XP). So basic requirements are:

- The player is able to send audio samples directly to the driver (WASAPI exclusive mode in Vista, kernel streaming in XP [or ASIO])
- The sound playback device supports the bit depth/samle rate of the audio samples (typically 16bit/44.1kHz in CD, 24bit/88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4Hz and 192kHz in Studio Master).

I am sure Realtek ALC1200 supports 16bit/44.1kHz, 24bit/88.2kHz and 24bit/96kHz, but HDMI audio from GeForce 8200 does not supports them. I don't know if VIA audio chip support them. (I have a mb with VIA VT1708B, but I haven't checked it; according to VIA, it supports 16/24-bit 48K/96K/44.1K/88.2KHz.)

GeForce 8300 HDMI audio and Realtek/VIA audio chip (S/PDIF and analog only) are totally independent audio chips.

Well eventually M3N78 will be sold out and M4N78 will take place of it, if users like or not.

jstutman

04-18-09, 10:51 PM

trying to find the pro's and cons of these chipsets

Running to a yammy 663

G45 using an ATI/AMD video chipset or 8400 using an Nvidia Chipset

Other than preference of chipset, is there any major difference in these?
Both appear to offer 6/8 channel PCM so thats my major need...DXVA is offered by both chips?

renethx

04-18-09, 11:23 PM

jstutman

04-18-09, 11:25 PM

8400? You mean 9400? 9400 is better than G45. Yes, DXVA for AVC, VC-1, MPEG-2.

You got what I meant, I love the woops, This was the answer I needed.

Thanks

slowlybuilt

04-18-09, 11:45 PM

Bit-perfect means that the player decodes the codec in LPCM in its original bit-depth/sample rate, then sends audio samples to the driver of the sound playback device bypassing Windows audio engine (Vista) or Kernel Audio Mixer (XP). So basic requirements are:

- The player is able to send audio samples directly to the driver (WASAPI exclusive mode in Vista, kernel streaming in XP [or ASIO])
- The sound playback device supports the bit depth/samle rate of the audio samples (typically 16bit/44.1kHz in CD, 24bit/88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4Hz and 192kHz in Studio Master).

I am sure Realtek ALC1200 supports 16bit/44.1kHz, 24bit/88.2kHz and 24bit/96kHz, but HDMI audio from GeForce 8200 does not supports them. I don't know if VIA audio chip support them. (I have a mb with VIA VT1708B, but I haven't checked it; according to VIA, it supports 16/24-bit 48K/96K/44.1K/88.2KHz.)

GeForce 8300 HDMI audio and Realtek/VIA audio chip (S/PDIF and analog only) are totally independent audio chips.

Well eventually M3N78 will be sold out and M4N78 will take place of it, if users like or not.

Hmm, I'm trying to understand how this effects my choice. I'm looking at the MSI K9N2GM-FIH with Geforce 8200 and HDMI. I'll be sending audio and video via HDMI to my AVR. For now I just need DD (either bit stream or PCM) for my ATSC recordings and maybe DTS for DVD playback. In the future I may add a bluray drive and will need LPCM because my AVR is a bit dated.

Two questions. Will this mobo meet my immediate needs for surround sound for my TV recordings?

Will it meet my future needs for bluray, or will I need a new audio card or video card down the road? This is not a big deal as bluray is an upgrade anyway, but I'd just like to know.

gpounders

04-18-09, 11:50 PM

Audio requirement? HDMI (stereo LPCM, DD, DTS), HDMI (multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS), S/PDIF (coaxial or optical; stereo LPCM, DD, DTS) or analog (multichannel)?

Win 7 Beta 7077 is leaked on the Internet. RC should be availabe from MS site.

I think I'm going with the recommended Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H board with GF 8400 on board. I want to pass audio for blu-ray via HDMI to Pioneer 1018 which supports LPCM multichannel and decodes DD HD and DTS MA.

Any limitations with this board doing that and running Windows 7 64 bit beta?

I don't want to by Vista when 7 is around the corner

renethx

04-19-09, 07:56 AM

Hmm, I'm trying to understand how this effects my choice. I'm looking at the MSI K9N2GM-FIH with Geforce 8200 and HDMI. I'll be sending audio and video via HDMI to my AVR. For now I just need DD (either bit stream or PCM) for my ATSC recordings and maybe DTS for DVD playback. In the future I may add a bluray drive and will need LPCM because my AVR is a bit dated.

Two questions. Will this mobo meet my immediate needs for surround sound for my TV recordings?

Will it meet my future needs for bluray, or will I need a new audio card or video card down the road? This is not a big deal as bluray is an upgrade anyway, but I'd just like to know.
GeForce 8200 meets your two requirements. Usually you will use Windows Audio Engine that automatically resamples audio to bit-depth/sample rate supported by the sound playback device. So you don't have to worry about the non-support of, for example, 16bit 44.1kHz by GeForce HDMI. The sound playback device must support 16bit 44.1kHz only when you want to send 16bit 44.1kHz directly to the sound device bypassing Windows Audio Engine (but even in this case there is a workaround: for example, foobar2000 has a resampler).

An advantage of bypassing Windows Audio Engine is that the AVR receives the correct number of audio channels. For example if you play CD music, AVR recognizes it as stereo and can remix to 7.1 (for example, by Dolby PLIIx Music).

renethx

04-19-09, 08:03 AM

I think I'm going with the recommended Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H board with GF 8400 on board. I want to pass audio for blu-ray via HDMI to Pioneer 1018 which supports LPCM multichannel and decodes DD HD and DTS MA.

Any limitations with this board doing that and running Windows 7 64 bit beta?

I don't want to by Vista when 7 is around the corner
GA-E7AUM-DS2H should be good.

blinkinek

04-19-09, 09:12 AM

Thank you again renethx...

I've made comparison of matx (M3N78-VM / Sapphire 4670 GDDR4) and mini-itx (intel/nvidia - zotac gf9300) systems. Here is how it looks:
- matx costs about 60$ more but has 4670
- mini-atx case looks slightly better and is smaller

So now the real question is where I will profit with 4670? Sound capabilities are similar, aren't they? What about PQ with mkv / bluray? Can you see a difference on 46'' lcd?

also in case of mini-itx if in future I would need support for dts hd I can go for Asus HDAV Slim...

btw recommended cpu fan in your intel/nvidia mini-itx build is a must? I suppose it's forced by the small factor of a case? If so is there any difference between apex 008 and 100 in this matter?

snake4812

04-19-09, 10:29 AM

gpounders

04-19-09, 11:22 AM

GA-E7AUM-DS2H should be good.

Thanks a bunch renethx. I'm wondering if anyone knows of a off the shelf PC that would be a good starting point for a build. Obviously, I would need to by an inexpensive video card and the form factor would be larger but it seems like buying off shelf would be cheaper than components.

Anyone tried this? I figure this would be a good test for me and if I really like having HTPC I can then redeploy the PC for the kids and then build a custom HTPC?

purcellt

04-19-09, 11:24 AM

I’m technically savvy but no where near as competent as the folks on this board at designing and building a HTPC – in short . . . I need your help. Just tell me what to buy, and I will buy it and build it. Familiar with Newegg and can handle a simple electronics build.

I’m sick of it. After 1 year of managing with UPNP enabled PS3 and getting varied (not perfect) results with streaming from the Media Center app, I’m just not happy with not being able to play certain types of video files on PS3 without using Tversity or without recoding. Plus is seems that every other month I’m chasing down some windows “permissions” issue when trying to browse some pics or music in my theater using the WMCc thru the PS3.

I would like to simply rip standard definition DVDs to HD as either VOB or as straight ISO’s. I’ve played around with this enough to use Dameon tools to mount ISO files that I have linked in Movie Collector and they play beautifully

I will then store all of the 400 or so SD DVDs that I have and be able to access them quickly from my HD

Here is my question and some backgroud

Dedicated 15’ x 20’ 6 seat theater
1- Panasonic PTAE-2000U 1080p Projector
2- Onkyo TXSR-875 THX Ultra 2 Certified Receiver
3- IR4PS3 Bluetooth to IR conversion kit

7.1 sound
- Definitive Technology Mythos 1 (Left/Right)
- Definitive Technology Mythos 10 Center
- Definitive Technology Gem XL (4) Surrounds
- SVS PB12 Plus Subs (2)

Harmony 890 remote to run equip the walk-in equip room
Panasonic PJ coming off an Onkyo AVR (all HDMI)
PS3 Feeding all video at the moment
PS3 is fully networked via 10/100 wired connection

New HTPC to be stored in a walk in equipment room and accessed via the Harmony 890

I want:
1) To use Media Browser/Movie Collector/Windows MCenter (pick one . . . and I do mean “pick one” to let me know YOUR preference) to browse SD ripped movies on the new HTPC hard drive and with a few mouse clicks have the movie start playing by feeding both Audio and Video to my Onkyo and the Onkyo, in turn, to feed the Video to the Panny and Audio through the speakers (7.1 sound). I really would like to have the HDMI cable carry all of the load of Audio and Video- then let the Onkyo do the decoding although if you all know better, please share!

2) I want this to be ABLE, should I want, to play BR rips too AND to handle the new audio formats as I currently enjoy these tremendously when they are available on the BR discs that we own.

3) I know that ISO files are not really designed for play back BUT I would love your comments on if I could continue to do this. Amazing to have an exact replica of the DVD should you need it AND they “mount/play” with ease!

I’m not worried about the cost but do not want to spend extra for features I don’t need. Not worried about power consumption but would like advantage of low power or a mode that allows a quick wake up from low power sleep. Heat is not an issue but I want the thing to last

I have a quad core PC that I currently use for processing and ripping video Q6600 with 3G ram

I run a WHS with 2 TB of storage and one open bay and would like to store these files on the WHS (it’s obviously wired to the same network that the HTPC would be wired to downstairs in the theater)
Until the storage exceeds the WHS, the I can hang some drives off the WHS as needed

What would you buy??

renethx

04-19-09, 11:43 AM

renethx

04-19-09, 11:46 AM

I'm building my first HTPC, and as a beginner I can't tell you how useful this site has been. Well the first of I'm sure many stupid questions:

If I have universal remote (harmony), do I have to buy a TV Tuner with a remote included to program the harmony?

Also, is there a big difference in the different Tuner cards avaiable, what is recommended?
What you need is an IR receiver. Some retail TV tuner comes with both IR receiver (can be used with Harmony) and a MCE remote.

Check the TV tuner section on page 1 and websites in reference.

blinkinek

04-19-09, 01:10 PM

thaaaaaaaaanks again :) I will go for mATX...

snake4812

04-19-09, 01:25 PM

What you need is an IR receiver. Some retail TV tuner comes with both IR receiver (can be used with Harmony) and a MCE remote.

Check the TV tuner section on page 1 and websites in reference.

Thanks... so just want to make sure I have this right--

I'm getting the AVerMedia AVerTV PCIe recommended in this thread. There is one package with the tuner alone and one with IR receiver + MCE remote. If I'm already getting keyboard/mouse with IR receiver I can buy the tuner alone (no IR/remote) and use the Harmony?

Many thanks for your help

bigdaikon

04-19-09, 01:28 PM

Hello Retnex and Everyone,

I have been looking to build a HTPC for an embarrassingly long time now. I am thinking that it is finally time to take the plunge- even though the recent talk of NVidia not being great for HDMI audio has me nervous.

Nonetheless, here is what I am looking to do along with my questions. I tried to be as detailed as possible and include everything I could not find an answer to. I do apologize if this has been asked/ answered before and appreciate you taking the time to read this novel and help me out.

Thank you friends.

• I would like to build an HTPC to output to a 1080p screen (47” if it makes a difference) and to an AVR via HDMI in 5.1 for now 7.1 in very near future (1 month)
• I would like to play and rip to the HD BluRays, h264,1080p/flac rips, and all other formats with no problems whatsoever (stuttering, juddering, freezing, synch issues, etc.).
• I would prefer to have both audio and video transferred over one HDMI cable (though I could be swayed).
• PC gaming is not a high priority.
• I am toying with the idea of a TV capture device and would like that option available in the future.
• As my collection grows I might want to start converting my bluray rips/discs to h264 to save space.
• A tiny HTPC sound great but ATX is no problem as I would prefer functionality over compact size.
• As far as the recommended systems list I was looking for the excellent rating in the BD60, 24, mkv, and hdtv. I chose standard as my weakest link being good/supported (not sure what the difference is there). I was not sure what moderate /partially supported translated to in the encoding category- does that mean that encoding would just take longer or that the quality of the finished product would suffer or both?
o I am mainly looking at your low Intel/NVIDIA ATX, and low Intel/NVIDIA micro Atx (I was staying away from mid and high because of two HDMI cables)

I do have the following questions-

1) Are you planning on updating the list of recommended HTPC components (if so any idea when?) I saw you mention it a little while back. If so then maybe I should hold off on my purchases and questions- I have been reading your posts and others for a few months….what’s a few more days/weeks?
2) Between the two boards for the micro ATX and ATX Intel NVIDIA recommendations (the GA-E7AUM and the EVGA 113) besides expansion slots, is EVGA 113 better than the other?
3) Would the E5200 be more than enough to do what I mentioned above- flawlessly? If not what other processor do you recommend?
4) If I wanted to encode later on would I see a huge difference in going with an e7400 versus the e5200?
5) If I am considering adding a TV tuner/DVR card and maybe down the line a graphics card. Would you recommend I get the corsair 550 versus 450 power supply from the start (I see only a $10 difference)?
6) Is ADATA superior to other brands of RAM? I have seen deals for other brands with lower latency numbers but I am unsure about the quality…
7) Given what I am looking to do is there any other recommendation you would have as far as board/processor? Money is limited and I am trying to do this as cheap as possible around $100 for the processor and $100 for the board….though if a few dollars would make a tremendous difference a little more would be OK.

I know this is posted a lot but thank you very much Retnex. This thread is truly a gem. I appreciate your time as well as all the others who post/help and I do look forward to hearing back from you as soon as you can. Have a great day!

jstutman

04-19-09, 03:42 PM

I Think it is pretty much in line with everyone's reccomendations found here

Case: Antec 2480
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
PSU: Included in the Antec case
CPU: Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz
HSF: Minja
RAM: Prob use some spare 2gb sticks of Adata or patriot ram I got left over
HD1: undecided...hoping for suggestions
Remote: eDATA DEC-200B

Questions/Problems

Hard drive: looking for something to hold just an OS, I have a server that will stream all the content I need. Ive looked into SSD but still expensive...so I have put MUCH thought into a notebook hard drive, yet cant find any suggestions on which is reccomended

Remote: This was picked due to the IR reciever, It shows to be compatible with my harmony and mediaportal...if there is a cheaper solution for just the reciever..Ebay is about the same price.

PSU: While I get a freebie that comes with it, I am hoping to move to a pico so if you can reccomend any additions or substitutions or removals to achieve a very low wattage system...this would make me very happy

Thanks everyone for you informative input to get me this far

slowlybuilt

04-19-09, 04:01 PM

GeForce 8200 meets your two requirements. Usually you will use Windows Audio Engine that automatically resamples audio to bit-depth/sample rate supported by the sound playback device. So you don't have to worry about the non-support of, for example, 16bit 44.1kHz by GeForce HDMI. The sound playback device must support 16bit 44.1kHz only when you want to send 16bit 44.1kHz directly to the sound device bypassing Windows Audio Engine (but even in this case there is a workaround: for example, foobar2000 has a resampler).

An advantage of bypassing Windows Audio Engine is that the AVR receives the correct number of audio channels. For example if you play CD music, AVR recognizes it as stereo and can remix to 7.1 (for example, by Dolby PLIIx Music).

Thank you. I think I finally have all the info I need to start buying. I just hope the resulting build outputs video of a quality that at minimum equals that of my cable company's HD-DVR or my GF is going to kill me.

But then again, maybe I could use that help me convince her to upgrade to a mid level system;)

Thanks again renethx for all your answers on this thread!

renethx

04-19-09, 05:05 PM

@purcellt

How about the mATX midrange AMD/AMD system?

1) VMC with MediaBrowser plug-in. (Or MediaPortal with Moving Pictures plug-in.)
2) Rip with Clown_BD in ISO. Play within MediaBrowser plug-in and TMT 3. In future CloneBD (CloneDVD HD) and SlyPlayer may take place of Clown_BD and TMT 3.
3) ISO is just fine (and I prefer it to MKV files).

renethx

04-19-09, 05:09 PM

Thanks... so just want to make sure I have this right--

I'm getting the AVerMedia AVerTV PCIe recommended in this thread. There is one package with the tuner alone and one with IR receiver + MCE remote. If I'm already getting keyboard/mouse with IR receiver I can buy the tuner alone (no IR/remote) and use the Harmony?

Many thanks for your help
Which kbd/mouse/IR receiver are you referring to?

renethx

04-19-09, 05:22 PM

renethx

04-19-09, 05:33 PM

@jstutman

WD1600AAJS, Microsoft IR receiver/remote, Corsair CMPSU-400CX ([much] quieter than the stock PSU). Where are you living? Is there a huge difference of electric bill by saving 5-10W?

MSmith83

04-19-09, 05:39 PM

Does anyone here have any experience with a stock GeForce GTX 260 built around the 55nm process (such as this card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130434))? I am wondering if this card gets noisy in a typical HTPC case/environment while viewing HD content.

purcellt

04-19-09, 06:38 PM

Thanks that's exactly what I needed - a start and some expert guidance! I'm assuming that you refer to the below spec?

If so . . . I am assuming that I can simply plug in an HDMI cable after the build and it will output both audio and video to my Onkyo receiver. Or will I need a seperate cable for audio? If more than one cable, could you recc another (even more expensive is no prob) graphics card?

CPU: Phenom II X3 710 HDX710WFGIBOX 2.6GHz AM3, $125.
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek HDT-SD964, $23.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AM2+ AMD 790GX chipset ATX, $139.
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $27.
Graphics Card: HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 GDDR3 512MB, $80. An alternative is SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB, $90 (quieter at idle and video playback).
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
PSU: Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT, $101. A cheaper alternative is Corsair VX550W CMPSU-550VX 550W, $70.
Case: Antec Fusion Remote Max ATX, $174.
Total Cost: $739

wildchild22

04-19-09, 06:45 PM

renethx

04-19-09, 07:32 PM

I am assuming that I can simply plug in an HDMI cable after the build and it will output both audio and video to my Onkyo receiver.
Right.

renethx

04-19-09, 07:34 PM

what amd chip and board is the best bang for the buck. Right now I have a GA-M78SM-S2H and phenom 8450 triple core. I am moving this to xbmc linux and need to know what I should buy? nvidia 8200 or 8300?
I want something around 3 ghz so would the AMD Athlon X2 7750 black box be the best choice right now? I would like to have something powerful enough to play anything and everything without hardware acceleration if possible. I quess I should say I do not want any other video cards installed.
Audio requirement? HDMI (stereo LPCM, DD, DTS), HDMI (multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS), S/PDIF (coaxial or optical; stereo LPCM, DD, DTS) or analog (multichannel)? As HDMI audio is integrated in GPU, you have to consider this point in choosing IGPU.

wildchild22

04-19-09, 07:42 PM

I want hdmi lpcm,dd,dts is fine as my receiver cannot decode any of the new codecs anyway.( my yamaha reciver is a 7.1)

bigdaikon

04-19-09, 08:15 PM

@bigdaikon

There is not much difference between ATX and mATX Intel/NVIDIA low-end systems except for the number of expansion slots. E5200 is good enough for video playback (unless you want to use ffdshow software playback). 450W is enough. A-DATA is good.

Or you could go with an AMD system such as Athlon X2 5050e, GA-MA78GM-US2H and Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4. This discrete card is better than GeForce 9300/9400 in a couple of points.

Thank you for the advice!

I was thinking of using mediaportal as a front end so I think I would need ffdshow- is this right? Would e7400 be good enough for that(versus e5200)?

Would the advantage of the AMD/ Saphire Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 be for gaming? What would I be sacrificing with BD@24hz playback if I went with this config (It looks like I go from "excellent" to "good" on your chart)?

Thank you again and sorry about all of the questions- just want to get it right so my girlfriend doesn't make me sleep on the couch....then again my new htpc would be there so it may not be too bad! lol......:-)

renethx

04-19-09, 08:34 PM

I want hdmi lpcm,dd,dts is fine as my receiver cannot decode any of the new codecs anyway.( my yamaha reciver is a 7.1)
Yup, 7750 (possibly overclocked) and 8200/8300 should be a good choice.

renethx

04-19-09, 08:43 PM

Thank you for the advice!

I was thinking of using mediaportal as a front end so I think I would need ffdshow- is this right? Would e7400 be good enough for that(versus e5200)?

Would the advantage of the AMD/ Saphire Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 be for gaming? What would I be sacrificing with BD@24hz playback if I went with this config (It looks like I go from "excellent" to "good" on your chart)?

Thank you again and sorry about all of the questions- just want to get it right so my girlfriend doesn't make me sleep on the couch....then again my new htpc would be there so it may not be too bad! lol......:-)
No, that's not correct. You can always use video decoders supporting DXVA so that a low-end processor such as E5200 is enough. For example,

- MPEG-2: Microsoft MPEG-2 Video Decoder, CyberLink Video/SP Decoder
- VC-1: MPC Video Decoder
- H. 264: MPC Video Decoder

HD 4670 GDDR4 is perhaps the best choice for video playback (best post-processing, best HDMI audio [except Xonar]).

jstutman

04-19-09, 08:43 PM

@jstutman

WD1600AAJS, Microsoft IR receiver/remote, Corsair CMPSU-400CX ([much] quieter than the stock PSU). Where are you living? Is there a huge difference of electric bill by saving 5-10W?

Thanks. There isnt a huge savings of 5-10w.

purcellt

04-19-09, 10:00 PM

First big thanks to Renethx for answering my questions. I could not do this without direction :confused:

2 more:

Given that I have about 400 movies to rip and will need at minimum about 3TB of storage. Would you load up the Antec Fusion case with 4 1TB drives or just use ONE 640G like the specs say and offload all other storage to either my WHS or some USB2.0 portables hanging off it? Any advantages to either one?

Also does the motherboard in the Midrange ATX reccomended system have the ability to send uncompressed 8 channel LPCM through HDMI? I read somewhere that it does not and I really want to be able to future proof this system as I begin to rip BR discs. If it does not can you recc anothe motherboard with this Midrange ATX system? Again, price is not an issue, just want it to work with future sound schemes like DolbyTrueHD, etc.

renethx

04-19-09, 10:26 PM

purcellt

04-19-09, 10:36 PM

wildchild22

04-20-09, 12:06 AM

Yup, 7750 (possibly overclocked) and 8200/8300 should be a good choice.

what board would you recommend for over clocking with the nvidia 8200 8300 gpus?

blackranger3d

04-20-09, 12:28 AM

I’m having a problem with my audio. Not sure if this is the right forum as I have "technically" finished my build. Anyway heres my current setup:

Athlon 64 3500
DFI Lanparty NF4
1 GB ram
old parts that will be upgraded in near future, this is a test system

HD 4650 (9.4 Catalyst Drivers)
Vista Ultimate
AVR = Sony STR-DG720
Connection = HDMI
Video = great
- can play local 1080 Mkv
- can play streamed (from my maing rig) at 720 Mkv

Heres my issue

When 4650 is set to stereo, AVR can be used to the split 2 channels into multi stereo, etc. My sub works in this mode

When 4650 is set to 5.1 or 7.1, AVR seems to get locked into PCM 48 (is this # the bit rate?) my sub will not come on and I'm stuck with front speakers only no sub etc.

The above is true for videos in mplay (smplayer) or mp3 in WMP.

I've gone through every menu and property that I can think of but still no luck.

Can someone help me to figure this out?

Also I was reading up on PCM form wiki

Pulse-code modulation (PCM) is a digital representation of an analog signal where the magnitude of the signal is sampled regularly at uniform intervals, then quantized to a series of symbols in a numeric (usually binary) code.

So does this mean that my PC is pumping our an analog signal and the AVR is digitising it. Or does this mean that the file being played is in analog and the PC is digiting it.

Thanks in advance

renethx

04-20-09, 12:40 AM

Sorry for the double post but to camp out on the question I just posted. If it makes a difference, my Onkyo TXSR-875 DOES decode the following formats:

Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD

Maybe the GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H will work just fine to get the bitstreamed audio to my Onkyo via HDMI and then the Onkyo decodes from there?
If you mean onboard HDMI, then the answer is no. The onboard HDMI is limited to stereo LPCM, much worse than the discrete Radeon HD 4xxx.

Currently the only bitstream solution is Xonar HDAV1.3.

In future HD 4xxx may (or may not) support bitstream if SlyPlayer is released.

renethx

04-20-09, 12:53 AM

Heres my issue

When 4650 is set to stereo, AVR can be used to the split 2 channels into multi stereo, etc. My sub works in this mode

When 4650 is set to 5.1 or 7.1, AVR seems to get locked into PCM 48 (is this # the bit rate?) my sub will not come on and I'm stuck with front speakers only no sub etc.

The above is true for videos in mplay (smplayer) or mp3 in WMP.

I've gone through every menu and property that I can think of but still no luck.

Can someone help me to figure this out?
So your problem is that if you select 5.1 speakers in Windows Sound dialog box and if you play stereo music, then your receiver says 5.1 (but all speakers except FL and FR are silent) and it can't upmix audio to 5.1. Is this correct?

Then this is normal. Windows Audio Engine always sends 5.1 signals to AVR if you select 5.1 speakers; if the source is stereo, this means that Windows Audio Engine sends blank signals to the four speakers.

A workaround is use WASAPI exclusive mode (i.e. bypass Windows Audio Engine). ReClock supports this mode.

renethx

04-20-09, 12:59 AM

what board would you recommend for over clocking with the nvidia 8200 8300 gpus?
MSI K9N2GM-FIH has modest overclocking options. ASUS M3N78-EM is perhaps the best in OC, but its high power consumption may be unacceptable, in particular when CPU is overclocked (check this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15356946#post15356946)).

vida69

04-20-09, 10:22 AM

does anyone knows if this card: ASUS EN8400GS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121240) has the g92 or g80 chipset? Will this be good as a 2nd video card hooked up to my hdtv and be able to pass audio as well.
Additional info: My main video card is a 8800gtx running windows 7.

jszei

04-20-09, 11:30 AM

My laptop. My HTPC is hooked up to my 40" display and I installed logmein.com on it just for the heck of it. I originally installed it just to see what it was like and then I realized I could use my laptop to connect to my HTPC and use it as if I was using a local keyboard and mouse hooked to the HTPC. Not that I really need to do that as I have a Dinovo Mini, but the keyboard on the mini is all but useless (to me), so I rather like controlling the HTPC via logmein.com on my laptop. I can just look at the 40" display instead of looking at the browser window on my laptop.

Two reasons why I wouldn't do this. First, I would need a laptop to control the HTPC and with the only laptops being mine for work and my daughter's it's not really an option. Second, I want to be able to interact with the HTPC as I were truly on it. I am an IT Manager so I use VNC at work every day. You will always get latency using programs like this.

What it looks like I'll be doing is getting a cheap media center remote like this:
Anyware GP-IR02BK Vista 2 channel IR Remote Control
to use it for it's IR which I'll extend up through the floor into the stereo cabinet and connect to the Harmony.
For a keyboard and mouse I'll extend Bluetooth through the floor as well. Probably the Dinovo.

Has anyone using the Logitech Dinovo had problems with paint pealing or Ctrl & Space keys failing?

renethx

04-20-09, 01:27 PM

TechConnect Magazine (http://www.tcmagazine.com/comments.php?id=25901&catid=3)

pcmike

04-20-09, 01:41 PM

renethx,

OK.. I've changed up my ideas a little bit. Despite being able to go i7, I built a spec up based on C2D (E8400). Can you tell me if this is a good idea for my goals and if everything should play nice together? Again my goals are: 1) DVR using either Vista/W7 MCE or MP, 2) Blu-ray Playback, 3) 1080p mkv playback, 4) audio/video over single HDMI.

Link: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=9736585

Thanks!

supaflai

04-20-09, 02:20 PM

pcmike

04-20-09, 02:59 PM

I just plan on using a Dinovo Mini (bluetooth).

jszei

04-20-09, 03:25 PM

For pcmike and everyone who buys cases with no IR receiver/space...

Do you plan to use a remote and if so, how will that be implemented? I love these Silverstone cases but so many of them don't have a location for that. Am I missing something - is there a solution I could use with my Harmony One?

Thanks in advance!

(I should specify that I'm a stickler for appearance and want the IR receiver to be internal... am I looking at drilling holes?)

Supa,

I've been researching the same thing. For a PC to use a remote you need some kind of IR device with corresponding software to translate remote buttons to keystrokes, macros, etc. The most simple and common it seems are USB IR devices you can buy separately or with a remote. The ones with remotes are just as inexpensive as with so that's what I'm going with. I also have a Harmony 890 which is R/F so what I'm going to do is connect the IR from the PC remote to the Harmony's R/F device. This way I can control everything with the Harmony.

Here's an example of one.
Anyware GP-IR01BK Windows Vista Infrared MCE Black Remote Control

Not that you need a keyboard and mouse if you only want to control the media center and not more advanced PC functions, but for keyboards and mice I'm looking at Bluetooth or traditional R/F. I'm not sure which has a better reception and longer distance though. Anyone know?

renethx

04-20-09, 03:44 PM

Here is a summary of GeForce 9300/9400 HDMI audio and Radeon HD 4xxx HDMI audio devices. I tested in Windows XP kernel streaming mode and Windows Vista WASAPI exclusive mode using ReClock and foobar2000. Testing various audio samples in these modes quickly reveals hardware/driver limitations of the device. I haven't tested GeForce 8200/8300 yet, but perhaps these are identical with GeForce 9300/9400. I will test G45 soon.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140323&stc=1&d=1240255630

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140324&stc=1&d=1240255630

Some implications of the results:

- If you use Windows XP, you are limited to 16 bit. If you want to get full quality of HD audio formats, you will need Windows Vista or Windows 7 (RC due in May is free until June 2010!).
- In general Radeon HD 4xxx HDMI audio is better than GeForce HDMI audio. If you want "bit-perfect" audio from, for example, music CD, over HDMI, then you will need Radeon HD 4xxx.
- These limitations are purely hardware ones. Software could remedy them. Because GeForce 9400 HDMI does not support 44.1kHz does not mean that you can't play music CD. Windows Vista Audio Engine (audio is always processed by this unless you choose the WASAPI exclusive mode) resamples audio to a format supported by GeForce 9400 HDMI device.
- Recommended HDMI audio driver for GeForce is v1.00.00.41 (included in the GeForce 9M Series driver). All the previous versions suffer from back/side swapping under Vista (in both WASAPI shared and exclusive modes).
- Recommended HDMI audio driver for Radeon HD 4xxx is "ATI" HDMI audio driver 9.4 under XP, and "Realtek" ATI HDMI audio driver R2.18 under Vista.

snake4812

04-20-09, 04:02 PM

Supa,

I've been researching the same thing. For a PC to use a remote you need some kind of IR device with corresponding software to translate remote buttons to keystrokes, macros, etc. The most simple and common it seems are USB IR devices you can buy separately or with a remote. The ones with remotes are just as inexpensive as with so that's what I'm going with. I also have a Harmony 890 which is R/F so what I'm going to do is connect the IR from the PC remote to the Harmony's R/F device. This way I can control everything with the Harmony.

Here's an example of one.
Anyware GP-IR01BK Windows Vista Infrared MCE Black Remote Control

Not that you need a keyboard and mouse if you only want to control the media center and not more advanced PC functions, but for keyboards and mice I'm looking at Bluetooth or traditional R/F. I'm not sure which has a better reception and longer distance though. Anyone know?

I am having trouble understanding this. I am building my HTPC right now, I would like to use my Harmony remote as well as wireless keyboard and mouse. Can I do this with one USB receiver? Are there IR receivers that can be built in? What are my options here....

dbone1026

04-20-09, 05:11 PM

garycase2001

04-20-09, 05:29 PM

The Antec receiver works with any PC -- but requires a 5.25" drive slot (probably not available in most HTPC cases). If your motherboard has an IR header, you could buy an IR receiver and drill a small mounting hole for it. Otherwise, I'd look at getting a small "nice looking" external receiver and Velcro it to the case :)

MikeZ06

04-20-09, 05:31 PM

Please Help! I just built a new HTPC using the medium range ATX from this thread and everything works fine except the audio. The audio constantly goes in and out. It goes out maybe for a half a second and then comes back. Its very annoying! Can someone give me some guidance on whats causing this?
My motherboard is the
Gigabyte EP45-UD3P I am also using the SPDIF or Optical for sound out of board.

Thanks for any help in advance!

jszei

04-20-09, 05:56 PM

I am having trouble understanding this. I am building my HTPC right now, I would like to use my Harmony remote as well as wireless keyboard and mouse. Can I do this with one USB receiver? Are there IR receivers that can be built in? What are my options here....

Take a look at this IR device. It should answer most of your questions.
While you're there look at the Tira2 as well.

http://www.home-electro.com/ira3.php

Rocka2

04-20-09, 06:04 PM

I am looking at Western Digital Velociraptor drives and it seems there is a new version different than the version recommended in the guide. The new version is backplane-ready WD3000HLFS vs. the older version WD3000GLFS. Since I am pretty much a newbie and I do understand what a backplane is I am not sure whether it would be beneficial to get the backplane-ready version. I googled up some information about this but since I would not know what you do with a backplane-ready model I do no know if it is important to get this new style of Velociraptor. Also what I found by googling was that the connection on the recommended WD3000GLFS is suuposed to be in a non standard location and the connection on the backplane-ready WD3000HLFS is in the standard location and therefore more suitable for connecting to a backplate which might have something to do with a controller. Again I do not know what this stuff is (I am a newbie) and any advice on which one I should get would be helpful. Most info on the web seemed to indicate that the backplate-ready WD3000HLFS was preferable. Maybe WD3000GLFS is being totally replaced and is considered obsolete. I do not know. It seems like some online merchants are only carrying the backplane-ready WD3000HLFS. Since this is were I look to for guidance I am asking. I have not heard this discussed and I do not know the difference. Help me.

jszei

04-20-09, 06:16 PM

Backplanes are used in servers or arrays for hot swapping drives among other things. They connect multiple drives together.

Rocka2

04-20-09, 09:13 PM

Backplanes are used in servers or arrays for hot swapping drives among other things. They connect multiple drives together.

This may sound like a dumb question but does this mean I should get Western Digital WD3000HLFS backplane-ready. It is the same price, but recommended systems lists WD3000GLFS.

renethx

04-20-09, 09:36 PM

This may sound like a dumb question but does this mean I should get Western Digital WD3000HLFS backplane-ready. It is the same price, but recommended systems lists WD3000GLFS.
You should buy WD3000HLFS (or WD1500HLFS). WD3000GLFS has been discontinued (?).

PatInTheHat

04-20-09, 09:47 PM

PatInTheHat

04-21-09, 01:26 AM

I think I have swayed myself to using UnRaid isntead of WHS. Since UnRaid maxes at 16(?) drives I am consider a different case:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811192079

It's unfortunate that there are no reviews for it but it looks like it would fit my needs much better then the Norco.

If I could find a MB with 8 sata ports as well then I would only need one of the Supermicro cards to reach my full 16.

garycase2001

04-21-09, 01:46 AM

PatInTheHat

04-21-09, 01:56 AM

I assume you missed the "minor detail" that the 16 hot swap drives bays are for 2.5" drives -- NOT 3.5" drives :D

Naturally. Thanks ;)

garycase2001

04-21-09, 02:00 AM

This works well for a 16-drive UnRAID:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112141
(holds ten internal drives with excellent ventilation (5 120mm fans)

plus this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994028
(holds 5 more drives in 3 of the 5.25" drive slots)

and one set of these to put the 16th drive in one of the remaining 5.25" drive slots: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811993004
(You can probably find these adapters cheaper locally)

That still leaves one 5.25" slot for a full-size optical drive.

There are a few other choices in the Lian-Li lineup that also work; but I like the ventilation on this case. You can also get a case with 8 drive bays in the bottom section and 8 5.25" drive bays -- enough for two of the IcyDocks (thus 10 more drives).

slowlybuilt

04-21-09, 03:08 AM

I was leaning towards a HTPC built around this base:

Athlon X2 7750 Black Edition AD775ZWCGHBOX 2.7GHz AM2+ and MSI K9N2GM-FIH AM2+ GeForce 8200 mGPU microATX

But now I'm second guessing this decision. This seems to meet my needs on the audio side, but I'm worried the video performance will not meet my expectations. Based on these scores (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/media-playback_6.html#sect0) I'm worried that my HDTV recordings will not look as good on my HTPC as they did on my Motorola DCH3416.

Are my concerns justified? Or will I need to spend more and get a discreet GPU now instead of later?

nlnl

04-21-09, 05:56 AM

Here is a summary of GeForce 9300/9400 HDMI audio and Radeon HD 4xxx HDMI audio devices.
- These limitations are purely hardware ones. Software could remedy them.
renethx
And why do you think that the limitations are purely hardware ones.
Maybe future drivers will fix 44.1 and 24/32 bits issues of Nvidia?

renethx

04-21-09, 06:43 AM

NORCO RPC-4020 4U Rackmount EATX/ATX
Corsair TX850W CMPSU-850TX 850W
2x Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 8-port SATA Controller PCI-X Card
x 11 Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5 (boot drive + 10 for array)
Microsoft Windows Home Server 32 Bit 1 Pack (Power pack 1) - OEM
LITE-ON Slim 8X DVD Burner Black SATA Model DS-8A2S-A01
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 5200+ ADO5200DOBOX 2.7GHz AM2
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA780G-UD3H AM2+ AMD 780G chipset ATX
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit

Last few questions:

Case: I plan to remove the 80mm fans and replace them with something quiet. I'd like to try to keep this system bearable as it will be located in the office. Anyone have suggestions or a DIY for it?

Storage: Just to verify will these green drives in a WHS setup be able to handle 2-3 HD streams?

PSU: any reason to increase or decrease? Eventually I will fill this case with 22 drives.

MB/CPU: Any reason to select something else? I spent very little time researching this as there are just so many choices.

Memory: I don't know A-Data but it appears to be rated very highly. I was planning on mushkin but since i'm listening to every other Renethx suggestion.... is there a reason A-Data is listed as his preferred ram? (any reason for 4 gigs)

CD Drive: Do I need some kind of adapter for the CD drive?

Do I also need to purchase rails, sata cables, thermal paste? (Anything im missing?)

Also how large of a UPS do I require? Anyone have a recommendation?

Any last comments before I place my order?
UnRAID supports up to 16 HDDs right now. But you can still use the Norco case. Choosing a case depends on how you place it, in a rack or standalone. For a 16 (+ a cache disk), you can use an ordinary tower case with 5-in-3 (or 3-in-2) cages such as Cooler Master RC-590-KKN1-GP and Antec Twelve Hundred as stated on page 85. Let me know which route are you going to take.

renethx

04-21-09, 06:52 AM

renethx

04-21-09, 06:55 AM

renethx
And why do you think that the limitations are purely hardware ones.
Maybe future drivers will fix 44.1 and 24/32 bits issues of Nvidia?
Yup, I meant hardware+driver. I hope NVIDIA fixes this issue by a driver update. HD 4xxx also suffers from non-support for 24/32 bit issue with the ATI driver 9.3/9.4. So the driver surely affects the problem.

carefreepastor

04-21-09, 11:10 AM

PatInTheHat

04-21-09, 01:37 PM

I think I might as well go ahead with the Norco case as I still think it's the best value for my needs and if UnRaid adds more drives then in the future I can too.

dabl

04-21-09, 02:23 PM

UnRAID supports up to 16 HDDs right now.

Actually starting with the April 10 4.5-beta4 20 drives are supported now, so this will be the new standard number of drives supported in the production version.

EDIT: oops, saw somebody also posted the same

slowlybuilt

04-21-09, 03:44 PM

I see a deinterlacing problem for 1080i MPEG-2 (GPU is not powerful enough for advanced deinterlacing). If you want a perfect solution, you will need a discrete card (HD 4670 or GeForce 9500 GT).

Thanks again renethx!

Could I avoid the deinterlacing problem if I outputted an interlaced image to my HDTV and allowed it to handle those duties?

Someone on another forum suggested the following solution:

"The 8200 should playback your HDTV recordings fine provided you're not encoding them into mpeg2 based files. H264/VC-1 is accelerated fine and playback should be good (although my friend said that he had judder with 24p playback). What you'll be lacking is in mpeg2 based materials since that will be using a different processing system. It won't cost you more to go the discrete route.

GA-MA74GM-S2 Motherboard - $55
4850e or 5050e - $60 (you could really settle for a cheap dual core if you can find one at a good price... the BE-2400's at $25-40 were amazing)
HD 4650 - $45-55 (HIS is the only safe brand I know for this model because of the bios/driver bug)

That's pretty close to the cost of a 8200+Kuma with better hardware accelerated performance and using less energy/heat generation which is very important. "

Would you agree with this suggestion/solution renethx?

It seems very appealing to me. I'm going for a low cost, low power replacement for my Motorola HD-DVR as its primary function, that may possibly be upgraded for bluray playback at some point in the future.

jszei

04-21-09, 04:00 PM

I think I am almost ready to order my server. In the end I could have saved all this time and research and just picked Renethx's build as it is pretty rock solid.

NORCO RPC-4020 4U Rackmount EATX/ATX
Corsair TX850W CMPSU-850TX 850W
2x Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 8-port SATA Controller PCI-X Card
x 11 Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5 (boot drive + 10 for array)
Microsoft Windows Home Server 32 Bit 1 Pack (Power pack 1) - OEM
LITE-ON Slim 8X DVD Burner Black SATA Model DS-8A2S-A01
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 5200+ ADO5200DOBOX 2.7GHz AM2
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA780G-UD3H AM2+ AMD 780G chipset ATX
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit

Last few questions:

Case: I plan to remove the 80mm fans and replace them with something quiet. I'd like to try to keep this system bearable as it will be located in the office. Anyone have suggestions or a DIY for it?

Storage: Just to verify will these green drives in a WHS setup be able to handle 2-3 HD streams?

PSU: any reason to increase or decrease? Eventually I will fill this case with 22 drives.

MB/CPU: Any reason to select something else? I spent very little time researching this as there are just so many choices.

Memory: I don't know A-Data but it appears to be rated very highly. I was planning on mushkin but since i'm listening to every other Renethx suggestion.... is there a reason A-Data is listed as his preferred ram? (any reason for 4 gigs)

CD Drive: Do I need some kind of adapter for the CD drive?

Do I also need to purchase rails, sata cables, thermal paste? (Anything im missing?)

Also how large of a UPS do I require? Anyone have a recommendation?

Any last comments before I place my order?

I like the fans from here: http://noctua.at/main.php?show=start
They are extremely quiet. Scythe also make quiet fans but be careful to check the noise rating on them.

I have read that the green drives are slower performing than normal ones.

As far as the memory goes, go to newegg.com and look up your memory. See what the reviews are. I've seen Gskill memory get very good ratings. Check to see if your motherboard can support faster memory, like 1066. Memory is cheap. Even 4 gigs of good memory will cost you $40. If you're running Vista then get 4 gigs. I could go into more detail about memory but won't waste your time unless you want to know.

Corsair makes great PSUs.

For your processor, it will depend how many things you want to run at the same time and how fast. You picked a dual core 2.7GHz. If you want it to last a while get a Phenom II quad core 3.0. Probably cost you $120 more but well worth it. If you don't want to spend that much drop down to a 2.8.

Take a look at the GA-MA790GP-UD4H motherboard. It has a newer chipset than the one you chose.

You don't need a UPS unless you want to backup any data when there is a power outage. A high rated surge protector will work just as well for power surges.

Sata cables will come with the motherboard.

If you're going with the AMD stock fan then consider getting premium thermal paste, it's cheap. If you're getting an aftermarket fan (check Noctua's site again) for better cooling and quieter sound then it will come with thermal paste. AMD's stock fan is fine if you're server will be in a closet out of the way.

wildchild22

04-21-09, 04:18 PM

jszei

04-21-09, 04:37 PM

I have a question my GA-M78SM-S2H geforce 8200 board on the product page says it supports phenom ii quad cores like the 940 but the phenom ii triple core 720 be isnt listed. Would this processer work in the board or would it not post?

If you don't see the processor on this list, I wouldn't put it in there.

http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=2817#anchor_os

wildchild22

04-21-09, 04:53 PM

If you don't see the processor on this list, I wouldn't put it in there.

http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Motherboard/CPUSupport_Model.aspx?ProductID=2817#anchor_os

It is a lower power requirement chip. I know one time amd mobile bartons when unlocked didnt show up what it was while booting or in the bios but ran fine. Just wondering if the same is here.

PatInTheHat

04-21-09, 04:56 PM

After reading this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1110689&highlight=unraid

I've decided to upgrade to this board:
SUPERRMICRO MBD-X7SBE LGA 775 Intel 3210 ATX Server Motherboard

As someone mentioned in the other thread it gives me options in the future if I decide to go away from UnRaid and it also won't bottleneck me during parity.

I'll have to decide on an Intel Processor as well, my short list:
Intel Xeon E3110 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB 187.99
Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 Wolfdale 2.66GHz 3MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Dual-Core Processor - Retail
Intel Core 2 Duo E7400 Wolfdale 2.8GHz 3MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail

jszei

04-21-09, 05:11 PM

It is a lower power requirement chip. I know one time amd mobile bartons when unlocked didnt show up what it was while booting or in the bios but ran fine. Just wondering if the same is here.

Try it :)

renethx

04-21-09, 07:01 PM

I think I might as well go ahead with the Norco case as I still think it's the best value for my needs and if UnRaid adds more drives then in the future I can too.
jszei answered many questions. A few further comments:

- Fan: check KAMA FLEX (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/030/sa0825fdb12_detail.html). SA0825FDB12L are quiet but should have enough air flow.
- 2-3 HD streams is no problem. Just make sure to use wired Gb LAN.
- You could go 750W such as CMPSU-750TX. (But the price difference is very small.)
- MBD-X7SBE+E7300/E7400 should be good.
- Brand of memory does not matter as long as it works.
- The case accepts only a slim optical drive. But if you use unRAID, you won't use it anyway.
- AOC-SAT2-MV8 includes SATA cables. Thermal paste is already attached to the stock CPU cooler.
- UPS is strongly recommended (http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility), such as APC BACK-UPS RS 1500VA.

renethx

04-21-09, 07:07 PM

Thanks again renethx!

Could I avoid the deinterlacing problem if I outputted an interlaced image to my HDTV and allowed it to handle those duties?

Someone on another forum suggested the following solution:

"The 8200 should playback your HDTV recordings fine provided you're not encoding them into mpeg2 based files. H264/VC-1 is accelerated fine and playback should be good (although my friend said that he had judder with 24p playback). What you'll be lacking is in mpeg2 based materials since that will be using a different processing system. It won't cost you more to go the discrete route.

GA-MA74GM-S2 Motherboard - $55
4850e or 5050e - $60 (you could really settle for a cheap dual core if you can find one at a good price... the BE-2400's at $25-40 were amazing)
HD 4650 - $45-55 (HIS is the only safe brand I know for this model because of the bios/driver bug)

That's pretty close to the cost of a 8200+Kuma with better hardware accelerated performance and using less energy/heat generation which is very important. "

Would you agree with this suggestion/solution renethx?

It seems very appealing to me. I'm going for a low cost, low power replacement for my Motorola HD-DVR as its primary function, that may possibly be upgraded for bluray playback at some point in the future.
1080i output from PC is not so straightforward as it looks like 1080i content is first deinterlaced to 1080p and then re-interlaced to 1080i again by GPU that causes quality issues. So in general you'd better leave interlacing to GPU and output 1080p to your display.

HD 4650 is likely to be hit or miss (there are lots of complaints of non-working advanced deinterlacing, HIS is no exception (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16005595#post16005595)). HD 4670 (or GeForce 9500 GT which lacks HDMI audio controller) is the only card I can recommend for 1080i.

BTW 7750 (HT 3.0) is even cheaper than 5050e (HT 2.0).

PatInTheHat

04-21-09, 08:19 PM

jszei answered many questions. A few further comments:

- Fan: check KAMA FLEX (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/030/sa0825fdb12_detail.html). SA0825FDB12L are quiet but should have enough air flow.
- 2-3 HD streams is no problem. Just make sure to use wired Gb LAN.
- You could go 750W such as CMPSU-750TX. (But the price difference is very small.)
- MBD-X7SBE+E7300/E7400 should be good.
- Brand of memory does not matter as long as it works.
- The case accepts only a slim optical drive. But if you use unRAID, you won't use it anyway.
- AOC-SAT2-MV8 includes SATA cables. Thermal paste is already attached to the stock CPU cooler.
- UPS is strongly recommended (http://lime-technology.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware_Compatibility), such as APC BACK-UPS RS 1500VA.

I'll check out those fans thanks.

Funny you suggest the CMPSU-750TX, thats what I wound up ordering :)

Is skimping on the processor to lets say a E5400/E5300/E5200/E2200 a bad idea? I think i'm going to get the E7400 as it appears to be the entry level into Core 2 Duo.

No longer getting a CD drive as i'll be using UnRaid.

renethx

04-21-09, 08:36 PM

Is skimping on the processor to lets say a E5400/E5300/E5200/E2200 a bad idea? I think i'm going to get the E7400 as it appears to be the entry level into Core 2 Duo.
Actually Pentium DC E5xxx is good enough for unRAID.

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 03:12 AM

Well now that my Media Server is ordered it's time to finish up the HTPC. Again i've wasted time researching as Renethx builds come through again:

CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz LGA775
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP
Motherboard: Intel DG35EC (BOXDG35EC) LGA775 Intel G35 chipset microATX
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB
PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX 450W
Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black
LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray Disc & HD DVD-ROM Drive
ENCORE ENLWI-N 802.11n Wireless PCI Adapter
Hard Drive: ???

My typical slew of questions (but oh so close to being done):

Before I order this I should figure out just how nessesary it is for me. I currently have a PS3 and a 360 sitting around that could be used. Is this an option? Can anyone give me a quick pros/cons rundown of going this route instead of building the HTPC.

MB: I don't plan to ever overclock so the Intel DG35EC board should be fine? Am I loosing anything else going to this board?

Processor: I can probably skimp here again to an E5000 but meh?

Cooler: Is there a particular reason this CPU cooler has been selected? Is it nessesary over the stock one? (should I be considering this for my Media Server as well?)

Renethx: I know you've talked about this a lot but I still don't quite get it. Using this setup I could run HDMI to my TV and Optical from the MB to my receiver. How would this effect my audio quality?

Hard Drive:
I'd like to keep it quiet and power effecient so the WD10EADS again becomes a good choice. This gets me thinking though that a SSD might be an even better option, something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393&Tpk=OCZSSD2-1VTX30G

Anyone have a recommendation one way or another or an SSD?

I also seem to remember a post by Odditory saying his HTPC(s?) contain no hard drive and he was somehow able to load everything from a server? (im fuzzy on details)

PCI Problems? (PCI x16, 2x PCI x1, PCI)

Will I be able to fit all these cards on this board in this case?

Vid Card
Wireless Card
Sound Card: I suspect I will eventually want to add one for the HD audio?

TV Tuner: I may wish to add one down the road. The wireless card can be ditched at this time.

blackranger3d

04-22-09, 08:04 AM

Xbox vs HTPC (I would imagine some of these will apply to the PS3 too)

These are my pros and cons.

Pros
- you have it (cheap)
- outputs to hdmi
- no need to mess with drivers\
- yes to DVD

Cons
- Needs a backend software solution (can't just look into network drives) [Vista Media Centre Extender or Tvarasity]
- No to BR
- Fan gets load
- need to buy a remote
- File formats (doesn't play them all, have to spend time converting)
- Menu System (I used XBMC for years on my old Xbox and then on a Apple TV unit)

Google - xbox 360 vs htpc for a ton of other opinions.

An HTPC is going to be better than the 360 as a media centre. But I suggest you play around with it to see if it meets "your" needs.

renethx

04-22-09, 10:14 AM

Well now that my Media Server is ordered it's time to finish up the HTPC. Again i've wasted time researching as Renethx builds come through again:

CPU: Core 2 Duo E7400 2.80GHz LGA775
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP
Motherboard: Intel DG35EC (BOXDG35EC) LGA775 Intel G35 chipset microATX
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB
PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX 450W
Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black
LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray Disc & HD DVD-ROM Drive
ENCORE ENLWI-N 802.11n Wireless PCI Adapter
Hard Drive: ???

My typical slew of questions

Hard Drive:

PCI Problems? (PCI x16, 2x PCI x1, PCI)
DG35EC is good. Pentium E5xxx is enough unless you go with software post-processing solution. Stock cooler is enough for an Intel dual-core processor.

HDMI for video and S/PDIF for audio is no problem. But DG35EC lacks an S/PDIF port in the rear panel. You have to make your own bracket, or buy a bracket (see page 85), or go for AMD.

Hard Drive: Somehow many people are overanxious about HDD noise (or power consumption). There are many sources of noise in PC and WD6400AAKS/WD10EADS are very quiet part of the PC. Spending $150 on 60GB SDD is not a particularly good idea. (Why people wants a faster drive for HTPC is beyond me.)

SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 occupies two slots. So typically you will have one PCIe x1 slot and one PCI slot. Xonar HDAV1.3 is PCIe x1 (Slim is PCI). Wireless LAN is PCI (reliable HD video streaming is not guaranteed though).

Sound Card: If you use a non-HDMI receiver and have no plan to upgrade it, then adding a good analog sound card may be a good idea if you are an audiophile. ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe is the best choice right now (but pricey).

jszei

04-22-09, 11:23 AM

My typical slew of questions (but oh so close to being done):

Before I order this I should figure out just how nessesary it is for me. I currently have a PS3 and a 360 sitting around that could be used. Is this an option? Can anyone give me a quick pros/cons rundown of going this route instead of building the HTPC.

MB: I don't plan to ever overclock so the Intel DG35EC board should be fine? Am I loosing anything else going to this board?

Processor: I can probably skimp here again to an E5000 but meh?

Cooler: Is there a particular reason this CPU cooler has been selected? Is it nessesary over the stock one? (should I be considering this for my Media Server as well?)

Renethx: I know you've talked about this a lot but I still don't quite get it. Using this setup I could run HDMI to my TV and Optical from the MB to my receiver. How would this effect my audio quality?

Hard Drive:
I'd like to keep it quiet and power effecient so the WD10EADS again becomes a good choice. This gets me thinking though that a SSD might be an even better option, something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227393&Tpk=OCZSSD2-1VTX30G

Anyone have a recommendation one way or another or an SSD?

I also seem to remember a post by Odditory saying his HTPC(s?) contain no hard drive and he was somehow able to load everything from a server? (im fuzzy on details)

PCI Problems? (PCI x16, 2x PCI x1, PCI)

Will I be able to fit all these cards on this board in this case?

Vid Card
Wireless Card
Sound Card: I suspect I will eventually want to add one for the HD audio?

TV Tuner: I may wish to add one down the road. The wireless card can be ditched at this time.

There are A LOT of cpu cooler options out there. You need a cpu cooler for every processor so yes to your media center. Some are built for maximum cooling so that people can overclock their PCs. This is a very common type of cooler. Some are built for silence. You'll want to check the cooler's fan noise level if sound is your main concern. Also check the size of the cooler. Some are very large.

A 450w PSU is going to limit you in the long run. I would at least get a 650w. since you are buying an independent video card you will have the option of upgrading it in the future and that new card you buy will have a higher power demand.

Iteki

04-22-09, 12:18 PM

A 450w PSU is going to limit you in the long run. I would at least get a 650w. since you are buying an independent video card you will have the option of upgrading it in the future and that new card you buy will have a higher power demand.

I have a similar question. I've decided to modify the mid-range AMD/AMD build and put in a 4870 card. I'll be running two HDD (1 40GB for OS, 1 TB for media), two optical (1 LG Bluray/HDDVD and 1 standard DVD/RW for faster ripping of standard dvds). I WAS going to use the Antec 2480 case with it's 380W power supply. I don't that will cut it now, power wise. is there any issue with swapping out the PS on the Antec, or is there a better option case/psu combo? I wanted the 2480 because it could accomodate full size cards (just in case).

renethx

04-22-09, 01:04 PM

I have a similar question. I've decided to modify the mid-range AMD/AMD build and put in a 4870 card. I'll be running two HDD (1 40GB for OS, 1 TB for media), two optical (1 LG Bluray/HDDVD and 1 standard DVD/RW for faster ripping of standard dvds). I WAS going to use the Antec 2480 case with it's 380W power supply. I don't that will cut it now, power wise. is there any issue with swapping out the PS on the Antec, or is there a better option case/psu combo? I wanted the 2480 because it could accomodate full size cards (just in case).
A newer GPU does not necessarily mean higher power consumption. Rather I expect power consumption remains the same or even lower because of finer manufacturing process (the current Radeon/GeForce is 55nm; soon 40nm). For example

- HD 2600 XT: 65nm, 120 stream processors, 48.6W at peak 3D (according to x-bit labs)
- HD 4670: 55nm, 320 stream processors, 47.1W at peak 3D.

HD 4670 is much better than HD 2600 XT in 3D performance, but power consumption is more or less the same. As for HD 4870,

- HD 4870 at peak 3D: 130W (x-bit labs)
- CPU: 65W (for example Core 2 Duo E8xxx/E7xxx/E5xxx)
- MB: 50W
- Memory: 10W
- HDD: 8W
- Total: 263W.

So 380W is safe (you will need a 4-pin molex to 6-pin PCIe power adapter because HD 4870 has two 6-pin PCIe power connectors). Best efficiency is usually achieved around 50% load. So 500W-600W is better. BTW HD 4870 is a bit tight in NSK2480 (the card length is 9.45", the max card length supported by NSK2480 is 10", but you have to consider the lenght of power cables).

Swapping PSU is no problem.

jszei

04-22-09, 01:11 PM

I have a 4870 and use a 650w power supply. You also need to consider all your other components while leaving a buffer for growth. Better to have more power than not enough. Most PSUs are the same size so it should fit in your case. Make sure the PSU has the correct plug type for the video card. The new PSUs have them all covered. One other thing I've heard is that the modular PSUs have problems with the cables coming loose sometimes.

lubmar

04-22-09, 01:36 PM

renex any reson you recomend kama flex over noctua?
from specs noctua looks better air/noise

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 02:01 PM

Google - xbox 360 vs htpc for a ton of other opinions.

An HTPC is going to be better than the 360 as a media centre. But I suggest you play around with it to see if it meets "your" needs.

Thanks. I'll have a look. I think I will still build the HTPC for my main viewing room but the PS3/XBOX might be suitable for other rooms down the road.

DG35EC is good. Pentium E5xxx is enough unless you go with software post-processing solution. Stock cooler is enough for an Intel dual-core processor.

HDMI for video and S/PDIF for audio is no problem. But DG35EC lacks an S/PDIF port in the rear panel. You have to make your own bracket, or buy a bracket (see page 85), or go for AMD.

Hard Drive: Somehow many people are overanxious about HDD noise (or power consumption). There are many sources of noise in PC and WD6400AAKS/WD10EADS are very quiet part of the PC. Spending $150 on 60GB SDD is not a particularly good idea. (Why people wants a faster drive for HTPC is beyond me.)

SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 occupies two slots. So typically you will have one PCIe x1 slot and one PCI slot. Xonar HDAV1.3 is PCIe x1 (Slim is PCI). Wireless LAN is PCI (reliable HD video streaming is not guaranteed though).

Sound Card: If you use a non-HDMI receiver and have no plan to upgrade it, then adding a good analog sound card may be a good idea if you are an audiophile. ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe is the best choice right now (but pricey).

Cooler: I'd like to keep this unit as quiet as possible (as well as the server). I should probably opt for one of these on both builds?

HDD: Not really interested in the faster part but SSD are supposed to use less power and noiseless. Your point is that the other components in the HTPC will be lounder then the HHD any ways so it doesn't matter?

Sound Card: I thought for several of the HD audio formats it was required to get one of these sound cards. I currently use an old receiver which only has optical in and when I upgrade it will be to something new which handles HDMI. Does this mean a sound card will not be nessesary?

TV Card: I haven't spent any time looking at these yet but I am guessing the cards I will be looking at are external so I won't have to worry about PCI slots?

EDIT: One more thing. Is there an intel MB that will give me an optical out? I really don't want to have to mod my own and I don't really mind making the switch to AMD if it takes care of this for me.

renethx

04-22-09, 02:03 PM

renex any reson you recomend kama flex over noctua?
from specs noctua looks better air/noise
Mainly because of the price. $8 x 7 = $56 vs $15 x 7 = $105. Spending $105 just for fans in the $290 case does not look a good idea to me. Anyway you shouldn't expect queitness from a 20 HDD system whether you use Noctua or Scythe.

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 02:12 PM

Mainly because of the price. $8 x 7 = $56 vs $15 x 7 = $105. Spending $105 just for fans in the $290 case does not look a good idea to me. Anyway you shouldn't expect queitness from a 20 HDD system whether you use Noctua or Scythe.

I am by no means hoping for silent but just something that isn't disruptive to my work day. I've heard the stock fans are actually not too shabby (delta fans rated at 3000rpm 35cfm) so i'll give them a try first and if they are too loud i'll do the 120mm mod and replace the two rear 80mms.

lubmar

04-22-09, 02:13 PM

Anyway you shouldn't expect queitness from a 20 HDD system whether you use Noctua or Scythe
... good point

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 02:31 PM

renethx

04-22-09, 02:34 PM

Cooler: I'd like to keep this unit as quiet as possible (as well as the server). I should probably opt for one of these on both builds?

HDD: Not really interested in the faster part but SSD are supposed to use less power and noiseless. Your point is that the other components in the HTPC will be louder then the HHD any ways so it doesn't matter?

Sound Card: I thought for several of the HD audio formats it was required to get one of these sound cards. I currently use an old receiver which only has optical in and when I upgrade it will be to something new which handles HDMI. Does this mean a sound card will not be necessary?

TV Card: I haven't spent any time looking at these yet but I am guessing the cards I will be looking at are external so I won't have to worry about PCI slots?
Cooler: I recommend to use the stock cooler first. Many people feel it very quiet. If you don't like it, you can always replace it with another.

HDD: The power consumption of WD6400AAKS is 8.3W at read/write, while a typical power consumption of SSD is 3W. The difference is only 5W. If you use 20 disks, the difference would be large, of course. The noise level of WD6400AAKS is more or less the same as the other components (PSU fan, CPU fan, graphics card fan, case fan). If you think the noise from WD6400AAKS is annoying, perhaps you would have to reconsider the entire HTPC plan (something like water cooling+SSD). That's the reason why I think many people are overanxious.

Sound card: All the HD audio formats are decoded into LPCM (the standard uncompressed digital audio format in PC/CE) by a player, then sent to the audio device, then encoded to S/PDIF signals by S/PDIF device (re-encoding to AC3 or DTS is usually done by the player) or analog signals by a sound card (or HDMI signals by HDMI audio device). Sapphire card has a built-in HDMI audio controller. So if you upgrade your AVR, you can use it for HDMI (video+audio).

Bitstreaming HD audio codes is anothe story: you will need the latest AVR and ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3.

TV card: Yes, if you don't have an extra slot, you don't have to worry: buy HDHomeRun.

renethx

04-22-09, 02:45 PM

I probably should have had a look before asking my previous question about MBs with optical. I see the other board Renethnx suggests has an optical out:
ASUS P5Q-EM LGA775 Intel G45 chipset microATX

I'd lean towards going with that board just because Renethnx recommended it but there are some other cheaper options. Anyone have some input?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128072
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128367
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128354
Unfortunately all of them have some memory limitations.

- GeForce 7100: single channel only
- G41/G43: supports either four single-sided modules or two double-sided modules.

The limitations of G41/G43 is not so serious: just buy a 2 x 2GB memory kit and never consider adding more. Practically even single-channel is not so serious for HTPC as long as you use a discrete card.

Another choice is:

- Athlon X2 5050e, $66
- GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-US2H, $80

Perhaps this combination along with HD 4670 is the most popular (5050e is as good as Pentium E5200; mb is better and cheaper; even quad display is possible).

vida69

04-22-09, 02:52 PM

quick question.. i have a 8800gtx and plan to buy an ati as a 2nd video card for HA and audio output. Will this be possible? I know its possible on xp and not in vista. My question is how about on windows 7?

renethx

04-22-09, 02:55 PM

renethx

04-22-09, 03:08 PM

EDIT: Ugh I see newegg lies to me when I search for Intel MB's with an optical. Lots of the ones it gives me just have the header but no bracket :(
All three mb you mentioned have an optical S/PDIF port on the rear panel. So you don't need a S/PDIF bracket.

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 03:22 PM

Unfortunately all of them have some memory limitations.

- GeForce 7100: single channel only
- G41/G43: supports either four single-sided modules or two double-sided modules.

The limitations of G41/G43 is not so serious: just buy a 2 x 2GB memory kit and never consider adding more. Practically even single-channel is not so serious for HTPC as long as you use a discrete card.

Another choice is:

- Athlon X2 5050e, $66
- GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-US2H, $80

Perhaps this combination along with HD 4670 is the most popular (5050e is as good as Pentium E5200; mb is better and cheaper; even quad display is possible).

Phenom II X3 710 HDX710WFGIBOX would be the E7400 equivilant correct? Any reason to step up to this?

Unless you see a reason I shouldn't do the X2 5050/GA-MA78GM I think that's what I will do. Performance should still be enough and this brings the cost of my project down a bit.

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 03:31 PM

I realize im nit picking about nothing here but how about the:
Western Digital Caviar Green WD6400AACS 640GB
vs the
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB

renethx

04-22-09, 03:34 PM

Phenom II X3 710 HDX710WFGIBOX would be the E7400 equivilant correct? Any reason to step up to this?

Unless you see a reason I shouldn't do the X2 5050/GA-MA78GM I think that's what I will do. Performance should still be enough and this brings the cost of my project down a bit.
Yes, Phenom II X3 710 is equivalent to E7400.

5050e is enough for normal video playback, just like Pentium DC E5200.

renethx

04-22-09, 03:40 PM

I realize im nit picking about nothing here but how about the:
Western Digital Caviar Green WD6400AACS 640GB
vs the
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB
WD6400AACS is 5400 rpm Green (lower power consumption). Perhaps WD6400AAKS 7200 rpm is better for OS (but not significantly).

MSmith83

04-22-09, 04:13 PM

I often read that certain optical drives do not work properly when the motherboard's SATA controller is set to AHCI mode. Does anyone know if the LG GGC-H20L, Plextor PX-B310SA or ASUS BC-06B1ST Blu-ray drives work properly under AHCI mode?

renethx

04-22-09, 04:23 PM

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 04:53 PM

Ok my builds are all ordered up and now I get to play the waiting game :)

Next is to start learning about front ends, dvd ripping and all that other fun stuff.

Thanks everyone who helped me get this far!

I also urge anyone who found Reneth's guide useful to donate. He spends an enormous ammount of time keeping current on hardware and answering questions here. The OCD in me made me research almost every component but in the end Renethx's builds were spot on.

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 05:03 PM

Btw does anyone know the difference between these two boards? They look identical to me:
GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-US2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-MA78GPM-UD2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

Also a bundle of Asus boards that all seem quite similar:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000200022+1075707619+1075211332+50001315&Configurator=&Subcategory=22&description=&Ntk=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=

renethx

04-22-09, 05:14 PM

PatInTheHat

04-22-09, 05:29 PM

I've encountered a problem. It appears newegg.com is the only site that sells the SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB card and newegg.ca does not :(

Anyone know of another dealer that sells this card and ships to canada?
or do I just fall back on the HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 GDDR3 512MB?

EDIT: Sigh that ENCORE ENLWI-N card is also not available at newegg.ca. Anyone have another wireless card they would recommend?

slowlybuilt

04-22-09, 07:21 PM

Is this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124118)a good deal for a case and a PSU?

notslow

04-22-09, 07:35 PM

Should I install the Imon/Imedian software that comes with the Zalman HD160 plus (version 6.20.0827, this is the newest that Zalman offers on their site) or should I use the newer 7.20.0502 that is on Soundgraphs site?

Not sure if there is anything special in the Zalman release that I need or if I should just go with the newer version.

Also, I'm not sure about the interface. I am running Vista Ultimate, so I have media center. which one is better? I know I need to install something to get the VFD to work, but what interface should I use.

Thanks, Will

pirspilane

04-22-09, 08:23 PM

Will a micro-ATX motherboard (ASUS M3N78-EM) work OK in a mid-tower case (COOLER MASTER Sileo 500)?

I'm concerned about cooling and the i/o connectors (eg being flush with outside of case and lining up OK). The specs say the case works with both micro-ATX and ATX, so mounting shouldn't be a problem.

Or should I go with the ATX version of the board (ASUS M3N78 PRO)?

etcarroll

04-22-09, 09:01 PM

Is this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124118)a good deal for a case and a PSU?

I just jumped on this to use for an entry level gaming rig I'm building my son with htpc parts I've replaced.

Note 2 things, there's only 2 sata power connections, most likely you'll need SATA power adapters, and there are no fans included. I'm hoping it will take at least a 120 at the rear, and it would be great if there's some provision to get a 120 or 90 in the front. Then you simply need to buy QUIET fans for the box, and you're good to go.

Edit: Per the Enermax web site, you can add a fan front and back on this case.

Speedkill

04-22-09, 11:29 PM

I'm looking at an HTPC for streaming and downloaded HD content, maybe Blu-Ray in the future (I have a PS3, so it's not pressing). This is to a Yamaha 663 AVR and a Pioneer Plasma. No more $80/month cable bill for me, hopefully.

This is what I'm thinking (no prices because I'm lazy and not that concerned about cost):

Antec Minuet 350 + 300W PSU
Antec Mult-Station EZ External IR receiver + remote (I have a Harmony remote, so this is really for the IR receiver)
Gigabye GA-MA78GM-US2H (AMD 780G board)
Athlon 64 X2 5200
G.Skill 2 GB DDR2-800
Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB HD
Logitech LX310 keyboard + mouse
Vista Home Premium 32 bit
SAPPHIRE 100253HDMI Radeon HD 4650 512MB

My issue is the graphics card and case. Whatever case I get needs to be less than 420 mm wide. What I can find at that size is a little ugly (Silverstone SG01) or slim (the Antec case above). If I go with a slimmer case, I'm limited to a low profile video card, which is why the 4650 is on there instead of the 4670 I could use with the SG01 case.

I'm trying to get the best HDMI audio and video performance I can, which is why I was eyeing the 4670. Now I'm wondering if the 4650 is an adequate replacement or if I shoud rethink my board choice and get something with decent onboard graphics. Or I could keep looking for a case. Or I could just go with the Silverstone case, which I'm sure is nice (I love the FT01 I have), but I just don't like.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

PatInTheHat

04-23-09, 01:08 AM

Pretty much the only decent options I can see for a Wireless Card:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833315078
or
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166038
or
go with a USB one

renethx

04-23-09, 06:03 AM

SAPPHIRE 100253HDMI Radeon HD 4650 512MB
You'd better avoid this card. Read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16304619#post16304619).

etcarroll

04-23-09, 08:35 AM

renethx

04-23-09, 08:42 AM

Renethx -

Why not the Sapphire? The post you link to shows a screencap of CCC, but what's the issue?

I ask as I just ordered the Sapphire to replace my 2600xt for htpc use. Also replacing the intel e2200 with an e8400.
Most Avivo video options are greyed out. This is common to several 4650 cards. See this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1107049).

etcarroll

04-23-09, 09:07 AM

Ack - thanks for the add'l link.

Edit: Based on Ren's link, I just d-loaded the ATI 8.10 RC2 drivers as a starting point when I install the 4650.

wildchild22

04-23-09, 09:55 AM

renethx
what would be the best system out of these 3. I am looking for 3.0 ghz + overclocked according to all the sites all these chips can over clock no probs to 3.0 ghz . I need to use the stock fan because an after market cooler cost as much as moving up to a different chip. I need to reuse my old crucial ddr2 800 4,4,4,12 ram I have 4 gigs of it. All I want is the best performance for the lowest price. I do not play games. I do not re-encode to x264 just use eac3to which isnt cpu intensive. I am unhappy with my previous nvidia 8200 gigabyte GIGABYTE GA-M78SM-S2H with a 8450 triple core 2.1 ghz. I overclocked it to 2..5 ghz but it isnt enough and it wont go any further.
1)GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H
Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz
$294.24 CND

or
2)ECS GF8200A
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma
$207.37

lastly
3)ECS GF8200A
AMD Phenom II X3 720
$316.98

BrazilianBro

04-23-09, 10:37 AM

HARD to find/decide for a combo (mobo + cpu) that works silently. I usually prefer AMD cpu (cheaper), but I'm not able to decide what to buy. I plan to use this HTPC mainly for .MKV files...

May you help me out?!

mandersonf

04-23-09, 03:22 PM

________
Premium
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Intel/Intel

System

CPU: Core i7 920 2.66GHz LGA1366, $284.
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek Dark Knight-S1283V, $40.
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 LGA1366 Intel X58 chipset ATX, $289. A cheaper alternative is MSI X58 Platinum SLI LGA1366 Intel X58 chipset ATX, $230 (2-way CrossFire/SLI, two less SATA ports).
Memory: G.SKILL F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ DDR3-1600 3 x 2GB Kit, $105.
Graphics Card (AMD): SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4870 GDDR5 1GB, $250; two of this card for CrossFireX, $500. An alternative is Radeon HD 4870 X2 GDDR5 2GB, $425.
Graphics Card (NVIDIA): GeForce GTX 260, $180; two of this card for SLI, $380. An alternative is GeForce GTX 285, $335 or GeForce GTX 295, $500.
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
PSU: Antec Signature 850 850W, $210. A better (and more expensive) alternative is Enermax REVOLUTION85+ 850W ERV850EWT, $243 or Seasonic M12D 850W, $270.
Case: SilverStone Crown CW02 SST-CW02S-MXR ATX, $355.
Total Cost: $1603 for non-CrossFireX, $1853 for CrossFireX; $1533 for non-SLI, $1733 for SLI.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=134824&d=1235670024

First of all thanks for the recommendations it has been a tremendous advance for my selections.
I'm planning to build a Premium Intel/Intel ATX System HTPC to replace a lot of components I have in my Home Theater Room (D-Link DSM-520 Media Player, CD Players, DVD Players, etc...).
I will keep my Onkyo TX-NR900 which is 7.1 and my Sharp XR-32X 1024x768 DLP projector (I have a 100" Screen)
I just have questions that maybe you can clarify for me.
1.- I'm planning on using the Thermaltake DH-102 case (the one with the 7" LCD). Do you think is a good case?, Does the components you are recommending will fit without any problems?, I'm gonna place this HTPC in the furniture that I build specially for my Home Theater, so it has the space needed for standard audio and video equipment, it is not closed from the front so I hope I will not have heat problems, What Do you think?
2.- I found out some testing results of motherboards and it seems that they are giving the gold choice to ASUS P6T-Deluxe and the silver to GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 (//forum.nexthardware.com/motherboards/58616-evga-x58-sli-gigabyte-ga-ex58-ud5-msi-eclipse-asus-p6t-deluxe.html). Of course for me the most important thing is audio and video Quality, I'm not a gaming fanatic, but I do a lot of multimedia stuff. Which one you think will be a better choice (or If you have another one in the range price)?
3.- What is a better audio solution: a) use a digital coax connection between the HTPC and my Onkyo Receiver, or b) Do an analog multichannel connection from the HTPC to the Onkyo? for option b, I need an audio card?, Why?
4.- Why the CPU cooler?, is not enough with the one that comes with the Core i7 920?
5.- I use UTP Cat5 Shielded cable between my Onkyo and my Sharp Projector using a component to RJ45 ATLONA Wall plate converter, it works fine but I'm planning to change those converters with a ATLONA Passive DVI-D to RJ45 to use the same UTP cable (//www.atlona.com/Atlona-1080p-DVI-Passive-Extender-over-Single-Cat5-up-to-100ft-NEW-p-17546.html), but now from my HTPC to the Projector. Do you thing this will be a problem?
6.- Is Western Digital a better HDD than a Seagate Barracuda?
7.- Does the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 will work with analog and Digital Cable signal?

Once again, thanks in advance

Miguel

rshanti

04-23-09, 03:51 PM

Hi Renthex…

I’m finally ready to pull the trigger on building my HTPC. I really appreciate all the information you’ve supplied on this site and would like to ask you some rather specific questions about my proposed build. My proposed specs are:

CPU: Core 2 Quad Q8300 2.50GHz LGA775
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H LGA775 GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit
Graphics Card: ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT or ASUS EN9800GT MATRIX/HTDI/512M
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps
PSU: Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT
Sound Card: ASUS Xonar 1.3 Slim (when released)
Case: 1 of the following:

Antec Fusion Remote Black microATX.
SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum / Steel LC10B-E ATX
LIAN LI Black Aluminum PC-C37B Micro ATX

As you can see from my proposed specs, I plan on using your High End Intel/NVIDEA platform as my starting point. My questions mostly revolve around getting HDMI output from my GPU to my sound card (or vice versa) so that I can transport both HD audio and video to my Intergra Processor through a single HDMI cable, although I have a question about my choice of a case also.

I want to use the Xonar 1.3 slim (when it’s released) as my sound card and am thinking of using the ASUS EN9800GT MATRIX/HTDI/512M as my video card. My questions are:

How will I connect the video HDMI to the audio HDMI?

If I can connect them, do I need an HDMI external jack on both the sound card and the video card, or can I get a different (less expensive) video card (such as the ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M that doesn’t hae an outboard HDMI connection) and just use the HDMI output from the Xonar card?

As far as the case goes, do all of my listed options support all the cards I’m specing, both in size and dissipation of heat? If so, do you have a preference? I’m thinking I’ll have to stand this HTPC on its side to fit my configuration, does that change your opinioin on my list of cases?

I’m sure I’m going to have many other questions after I get started, but this will get me going (I think).

Thanks in advance for your expert reply.

aremigij

04-23-09, 04:12 PM

I thinking about mid range AMD/AMD HTPC. Renethx in this recommendation you recommend AM3 processor with AM2+ motherboard, maybe it's mistake?

AMD/AMD

System

* CPU: Phenom II X3 710 HDX710WFGIBOX 2.6GHz AM3, $125.
* CPU Cooler: Xigmatek HDT-SD964, $23.
* Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA790GP-UD4H AM2+ AMD 790GX chipset ATX, $139.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $27.
* Graphics Card: HIS H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 GDDR3 512MB, $80. An alternative is SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB, $90 (quieter at idle and video playback).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
* PSU: Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT, $101. A cheaper alternative is Corsair VX550W CMPSU-550VX 550W, $70.
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Max ATX, $174.

renethx

04-23-09, 04:21 PM

Ack - thanks for the add'l link.

Edit: Based on Ren's link, I just d-loaded the ATI 8.10 RC2 drivers as a starting point when I install the 4650.

Please report your result. I am still wondering if this is only in my card.

renethx

04-23-09, 04:33 PM

renethx

04-23-09, 04:34 PM

renethx

04-23-09, 04:38 PM

Marc_G

04-23-09, 05:58 PM

thamizhan

04-23-09, 06:07 PM

Hello Rene,

I am planning on using HIS Hightech H467QT512P Radeon HD 4670 or SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670 512MB 128-bit GDDR4 on this case - nMEDIAPC Black Aluminum / Acrylic / Steel HTPC 5000B Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

Can you recommend if either of these cards will fit the case that I have selected? I am using this HTPC for streaming Bluray/HD-DVD and ripped/downloaded bluray content. HDMI will be my choice of cable for both audio & video. Can you also tell me if it will serve my purpose? Thanks in advance for your help.

Iteki

04-23-09, 06:07 PM

renethx

04-23-09, 08:40 PM

mandersonf

04-23-09, 09:13 PM

Rene,

I think I had some problems with my last post, so that is why Im posting it again.

First of all thanks for the recommendations it has been a tremendous advance for my selections.
I'm planning to build a Premium Intel/Intel ATX System HTPC to replace a lot of components I have in my Home Theater Room (D-Link DSM-520 Media Player, CD Players, DVD Players, etc...).
I will keep my Onkyo TX-NR900 which is 7.1 and my Sharp XR-32X 1024x768 DLP projector (I have a 100" Screen)
I just have questions that maybe you can clarify for me.
1.- I'm planning on using the Thermaltake DH-102 case (the one with the 7" LCD). Do you think is a good case?, Does the components you are recommending will fit without any problems?, I'm gonna place this HTPC in the furniture that I build specially for my Home Theater, so it has the space needed for standard audio and video equipment, it is not closed from the front so I hope I will not have heat problems, What Do you think?
2.- I found out some testing results of motherboards and it seems that they are giving the gold choice to ASUS P6T-Deluxe and the silver to GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 (//forum.nexthardware.com/motherboards/58616-evga-x58-sli-gigabyte-ga-ex58-ud5-msi-eclipse-asus-p6t-deluxe.html). Of course for me the most important thing is audio and video Quality, I'm not a gaming fanatic, but I do a lot of multimedia stuff. Which one you think will be a better choice (or If you have another one in the range price)?
3.- What is a better audio solution: a) use a digital coax connection between the HTPC and my Onkyo Receiver, or b) Do an analog multichannel connection from the HTPC to the Onkyo? for option b, I need an audio card?, Why?
4.- Why the CPU cooler?, is not enough with the one that comes with the Core i7 920?
5.- I use UTP Cat5 Shielded cable between my Onkyo and my Sharp Projector using a component to RJ45 ATLONA Wall plate converter, it works fine but I'm planning to change those converters with a ATLONA Passive DVI-D to RJ45 to use the same UTP cable (//www.atlona.com/Atlona-1080p-DVI-Passive-Extender-over-Single-Cat5-up-to-100ft-NEW-p-17546.html), but now from my HTPC to the Projector. Do you thing this will be a problem?
6.- Is Western Digital a better HDD than a Seagate Barracuda?
7.- Does the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 will work with analog and Digital Cable signal?

Once again, thanks in advance

Miguel

Marc_G

04-23-09, 10:17 PM

Hi folks,

Just completed the initial build around my Gigabyte GA-MA78GPM-UD2H Motherboard with the AMD Atlon X2 2.7 Gig processor. Corsair VX450W power supply.

I turn on the PSU and get a brief flash from a USB keyboard receiver that's plugged in.

I push the "Power" button on the case and the thing fires up... fans spin (case, CPU), drives spin up. No onboard sounds (beeps or anything), and no picture on the screen. I'm using the onboard graphics. Currently plugged into a monitor via the VGA port, but have also tried DVD & HDMI to the monitor. Monitor just sits there with a black screen or sometimes goes to sleep.

If I push the power button again, there is no response. Reset button: no response. Drives have power though (open/close DVD drawer, HD is spinning).

Was very careful seating the CPU; it went in smoothly. Slight heat comes out of the fan on the CPU.

Thoughs for troubleshooting and/or next steps? I'm at 7 days from purchase tonight so need to call newegg if I'm looking at RMA of anything.

Planning to pull all non-essential cables, try again.

What do I do next?

Thanks in advance!

Marc

Sigh. Nothing changed the situation. I'm sending CPU and MoBo back to Newegg. It will take about 2 weeks to get the replacements in hand. I'm totally bummed.

One silly question, which dates me:

The power feed to the MoBo was listed as two connection types, which I assumed were either/or. There was a big 20-pin(? or thereabouts) ATX power connector on the board, and something listed as a 12V 2X4. I used the big ATX one in the front of the board. As a final checklist test, I tried just the 12v 2x4 and then the ATX plus the 2x4 both connected. Neither improved the situation; with just the 2x4 plugged in, it didn't wake up at all (no fans, drive spinup, etc.). When both sets were plugged in, the fans worked harder... This was the last item I checked. At one point (previously), I had just MoBo, CPU+Fan, Power supply, on-switch lead. Nothing else plugged in. Still no joy.

Any thoughts about what happened? No sign of any damange, CPU handling was smooth. No apparent static impact during handling.

2 weeks I try again!

Marc

slowlybuilt

04-24-09, 02:42 AM

After about a month of head spinning research I think I've finally settled on a build. It is still a bit more that I planned on spending, but I'm hoping it exceeds my expectations.

How does it look?

Open Box MSI DKA790GX AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard $85

AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition $59

ENERMAX PANDORA 185 ECA3070BS Black/ Silver SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 400W Power Supply $30 AR

HITACHI 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive $75 AR

4GB DDR2 PC6400 TWINX MEMORY / CORSAIR $15AR

SAMSUNG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model SH-S223Q $20

Total ~$284

+~$200 for a dual TV tuner and Vista

Does this look alright?

gundam83

04-24-09, 04:06 AM

I was wondering what you guys would suggest for the lowest power consumption? I am open to AMD or Intel, Mini-atx or Micro-atx. I'm mainly looking for value and the bare minimum to play 1080p mkv's. I don't even plan on putting a DVD drive in the system. I have 4 HDDs, so micro-atx is my only bet if I wanted them all in one rig. But if i build a mini-atx system, would it be possible to smoothly stream movies from my primary rig in another room over a wireless network?

jonsjunk

04-24-09, 08:41 AM

Is there a difference between the two boards below that I need to consider if I plan to use a Sapphire Radeon 4670 to connect to my Onkyo SR705 via HDMI?

Would be nice to save $25 on this part of the build if there is no overall benefit of the more expensive board.

GIGABYTE GA-MA74GM-S2 AM2+/AM2 AMD 740G Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $55

GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-US2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $80.

Thanks.

Iteki

04-24-09, 10:20 AM

jszei

04-24-09, 10:30 AM

Sigh. Nothing changed the situation. I'm sending CPU and MoBo back to Newegg. It will take about 2 weeks to get the replacements in hand. I'm totally bummed.

One silly question, which dates me:

The power feed to the MoBo was listed as two connection types, which I assumed were either/or. There was a big 20-pin(? or thereabouts) ATX power connector on the board, and something listed as a 12V 2X4. I used the big ATX one in the front of the board. As a final checklist test, I tried just the 12v 2x4 and then the ATX plus the 2x4 both connected. Neither improved the situation; with just the 2x4 plugged in, it didn't wake up at all (no fans, drive spinup, etc.). When both sets were plugged in, the fans worked harder... This was the last item I checked. At one point (previously), I had just MoBo, CPU+Fan, Power supply, on-switch lead. Nothing else plugged in. Still no joy.

Any thoughts about what happened? No sign of any damange, CPU handling was smooth. No apparent static impact during handling.

2 weeks I try again!

Marc

I have this same motherboard.

You need all power connected to the board. The 2x12 (24 pin) rail and the smaller 2x4 (8 pin). If after you plug both those in and boot up and still get no beeps (provided you have a PC speaker) suggests a memory problem. Try it with only one stick of memory installed and make sure it is seated in the correct socket. This is very important. If it still doesn't work I would buy some new memory locally if you don't have any other available and try it before exchanging everything to Newegg.

Do you not even see the BIOS screen show up on the monitor?

Read the motherboard instructions on how to install it properly.

If you want to list

By the way, I'm an IT manager, Microsoft certified systems admin, A+ certified yadda yadda and been in the industry for about 18 years.

slowlybuilt

04-24-09, 10:35 AM

The more research I do the more confused I get. Now I'm thinking that I'll need a discreet graphics card to get the HDTV playback and one cable solution I require now and allow for lossless bluray playback in the future once I add the drive to the low end AMD/AMD system.

But HD 4650 adds $50 to the cost of the system. Would it be possible to buy a dirt cheap mobo since I won't need the iGPU? Is there a $35 mobo that would compensate for the added cost of the HD 4650? Can the 4650 pass Dolby True HD in LPCM or bitstream?

I'm ready to just throw up my hands and try and get the low-end Intel/NVIDIA system as cheaply as I can, but I'm worried that I won't be satisfied and will end up spending more money to upgrade more quickly than I intended to.

I don't think what I want can be done for the price I am aiming for. I want to spend <$400 TOTAL, that's including a tuner and OS. I want to be able to record at least 2 channels of OTA ATSC and I want playback to be as good as my Motorola DCH3416 and have video and DD 5.1 (or DTS with a DVD) bitstream outputted to my AVR via one cable. I also want the option to add a bluray drive in the future and with it output Dolby True HD in lossless PCM format until I upgrade my AVR and then have it output bitstream all via one HDMI cable. And I have to remember the more powerful components not only cost more up front, but suck down more electricity costing more in the long run, because this thing will be running 24/7 just like my current DVR.

I'm sick of paying the cable company $107 a month, but I don't want this HTPC to become a money pit either. And most of all I need to keep the GF happy. And the more this costs, the less happy she gets, even if I'm saving money in the long run.

Ugh, sorry everyone. I just had to vent. Back to research and price comparisons.

slowlybuilt

04-24-09, 12:46 PM

Thought of a new way to cut costs!

Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E5200

ECS G31T-M(1.0) LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

That combo is available for $97 AR!!!!

If I drop in one of those Radeon 4670's that seem to be so well regarded on this thread, I should have outstanding HDTV playback right? And it will meet my sound requirements?

And if I can get one for around $50 it will keep my system cost down around where its been while outperforming the iGPUs right?

So that would cost ~$150
HD ~$75
Case+PSU ~ $30
RAM ~$15
DVD ~20
OS ~$77
Tuner ~$130

TOTAL~ $460

Does this make sense?

Iteki

04-24-09, 12:55 PM

slowlybuilt

04-24-09, 01:01 PM

What case/psu are you getting for $30?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124118

Shipping is $15 so it is $60 up front, $30 AR.

dbmix

04-24-09, 01:02 PM

slowlybuilt

04-24-09, 01:12 PM

He doubled the price...it's actually $15 after rebates

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124118&Tpk=ENERMAX%20PANDORA%20185%20ECA3070BS

EDIT: Nevermind, I see the it's answered

Yeah, it kinda kills me to pay the same amount in shipping as the cost of the actual product, but when its that cheap I guess I can't complain too much;)

jonsjunk

04-24-09, 02:21 PM

Thanks Iteki.

So this is the build I have decided on. Any feedback is welcome and appreciated.

Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2 $55
AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma $59
Corsair 4GB (2 x 2GB) WTIN2X4096-6400C5 $30 AR
Scythe Ninja Mini CPU Cooler or $30
Xigmatek HDT-SD964 CPU Cooler $25
Western Digital Caviar WD1600AAJS 160GB $42
Lite-On Blu-Ray Drive $90
Enermax Modu82+ EMD425AWT $65
Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 $80
Silverstone GD02B (shallow depth desired) $140

Total build ~$590

Will the CPU coolers work in this case or do I need to use the Geminii S? I like the other two better due to direction of airflow.

This will be connected via HDMI to an Onkyo SR705 and from the AVR to a Mitsubishi 46244 LCD. The HTPC will be connected to my 2003 Server for music, ripped DVDs and ripped Blu-Ray DVDs when we start accumulating those (I have a 4 year old and the DVDs tend to worked over, thus the main reason I want to build this system so everything is accessible from the pc).

Thanks for reviewing.

MSmith83

04-24-09, 02:52 PM

LG GGC-H20L works fine for me in AHCI mode with various mb.

Thanks, Rene. I have a question regarding overclocking an Intel E8500.

My plan is to do a simple FSB boost to 1600MHz using a GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-UD2H (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=3021) in order to achieve a clock speed of 3.8GHz. Do you think that I can achieve this overclock reliably with that motherboard? Gigabyte advertises it, but I was wondering if I'm missing something here. Cooling shouldn't be an issue, as I bought a Noctua NH-U9B for my HSF.

For what it's worth, I already bought 8GB of OCZ Platinum Series DDR-2 800 RAM for cheap and plan to use it at its stock speed.

etcarroll

04-24-09, 03:01 PM

It should - but have you accounted for getting the HiDef sound to your AVR?

I should be getting the Enermax case delivered today to start on my son's build.

Thought of a new way to cut costs!

Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80571E5200

ECS G31T-M(1.0) LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

That combo is available for $97 AR!!!!

If I drop in one of those Radeon 4670's that seem to be so well regarded on this thread, I should have outstanding HDTV playback right? And it will meet my sound requirements?

And if I can get one for around $50 it will keep my system cost down around where its been while outperforming the iGPUs right?

So that would cost ~$150
HD ~$75
Case+PSU ~ $30
RAM ~$15
DVD ~20
OS ~$77
Tuner ~$130

TOTAL~ $460

Does this make sense?

etcarroll

04-24-09, 03:05 PM

NewEgg seems incapable of processing the $50 gift card I was using to pay for the 4650, so I cancelled the order, and went with the Sapphire 4670 DDR4 instead.

That shouldn't be a problem with a GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS4 P35 mobo, will it?

Please report your result. I am still wondering if this is only in my card.

etcarroll

04-24-09, 05:01 PM

UPS just dropped the case, its about an inch thinner, and 1.5 inches shorter than my Cooler Master T15, and not nearly as 'beefy' in construction, but it will do fine for a 14 year old to play WoW.

Now need a pr. of 120 fans that move air and are reasonably quiet. I see Renethx rec'd Kama Flex, I may just grab a pr. of their 120s, SA1225FDB12L .

Yeah, it kinda kills me to pay the same amount in shipping as the cost of the actual product, but when its that cheap I guess I can't complain too much;)

renethx

04-24-09, 05:05 PM

That shouldn't be a problem with a GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS4 P35 mobo, will it?
No problem.

Speedkill

04-24-09, 05:05 PM

renethx

04-24-09, 05:07 PM

Oops, I am sorry that I missed many questions. It looks like I can't answer all of them right now.

hybridcj

04-24-09, 07:18 PM

Not sure if this is possible but I figured I'd throw it out there to see if it can work.

Right now my HTPC is connected via hdmi to my reciever by hdmi. This is for my main viewing area and does all media. However, i would also like the ability to play just music over zone 2 through the same receiver. contemplating using a small touchscreen computer to control the zone 2 audio. My question relates to the fact that currently with one hdmi cable i would lose the ability to watch a movie or listen to music in zone 1 unless it is the same as zone 2 (only one connection from htpc to avr).

is it possible to install a separate sound card and designate what audio output for an application to use? ie, itunes over toslink, wmp or media center over hdmi? this way i can walk around the house with the wireless touchpad and pick songs like a virtual jukebox leaving the zone one home theater untouched and able to function independently.

I'm aware that there are certain home automation software solutions that i can use to control my avr but i can't think of a way to have multiple audio streams simultaneously with different sources.

thanks again for the help

Marc_G

04-24-09, 10:40 PM

I have this same motherboard.

You need all power connected to the board. The 2x12 (24 pin) rail and the smaller 2x4 (8 pin). If after you plug both those in and boot up and still get no beeps (provided you have a PC speaker) suggests a memory problem. Try it with only one stick of memory installed and make sure it is seated in the correct socket. This is very important. If it still doesn't work I would buy some new memory locally if you don't have any other available and try it before exchanging everything to Newegg.

Do you not even see the BIOS screen show up on the monitor?

Read the motherboard instructions on how to install it properly.

If you want to list

By the way, I'm an IT manager, Microsoft certified systems admin, A+ certified yadda yadda and been in the industry for about 18 years.

Thanks for the help. After reading your reply, it occured to me that I had tested it with only one of the two neded power cables, or with both cables but no memory, but never with both cables and the memory installed. I set it back up, and after a nailbitingly long pause before any signs of life, indeed it began to post. Thank goodness!

I've got it set up and Vista32 updated. Now to turn it into a real theater PC, as in software.

Is there a good thread on "the essential software lineup" for an HD HTPC? I've got the trial of AnyDVDHD, and have ripped some movies. But which is the best / cheapest program to view them,and so on? And what'sa good antivirus solution tuned to HTPC use? I use Kaspersky on my desktop but is there a free package that's good enough for HTPC use?

Also, one silly question: In a wife-related-incident, one of the two springs that closes the DVD drive flap in the case is lost. Where can I get replacements for such a tiny,very springy spring? So far the usual local suspcts haven't given joy.

Thanks all!

Marc

renethx

04-25-09, 02:20 AM

Windows 7 Release Candidate Update (http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windows7/archive/2009/04/24/windows-7-release-candidate-update.aspx)

I’m pleased to share that the RC is on track for April 30th for download by MSDN and TechNet subscribers. Broader, public availability will begin on May 5th.

Windows 7 RC will expire on June 1, 2010.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140766&stc=1&d=1240641647

(Source (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/03/windows-7-rc-download-page-goes-up-early-coming-in-may.ars))

Paul E. Fox, II

04-25-09, 08:00 AM

You'd better avoid this card. Read this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16304619#post16304619).

See...now I'm a bit worried. Would that problem also exist in this card:

SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670

This is the one I bought and I haven't opened it yet...do I send it back?

renethx

04-25-09, 08:10 AM

See...now I'm a bit worried. Would that problem also exist in this card:

SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670

This is the one I bought and I haven't opened it yet...do I send it back?
There is no problem with any HD 4670 card. The greyed out Avivo video options issue is specific to HD 4650.

Paul E. Fox, II

04-25-09, 08:20 AM

There is no problem with any HD 4670 card. The greyed out Avivo video options issue is specific to HD 4650.

Ahh...thanks dude. I was trying to figure that particular point out and hadn't found that information yet...I was just sweating it a little.

One other thing related to your Win7 RC post.

Do you know if the RC will allow you to install from an OS other than Vista? I had read, but hadn't verified, that the Beta versions required an upgrade from Vista.

I'm currently running WinXP and would like to be able to run the RC for a bit on the new build just to play around with it. I know it's gonna be a bit wonky here and there but that's OK for now...as long as I can do some testing without having to BUY another copy of Windows at first. I'm hoping to completely skip the Vista Experience, you know?

renethx

04-25-09, 08:33 AM

Do you know if the RC will allow you to install from an OS other than Vista? I had read, but hadn't verified, that the Beta versions required an upgrade from Vista.

I'm currently running WinXP and would like to be able to run the RC for a bit on the new build just to play around with it. I know it's gonna be a bit wonky here and there but that's OK for now...as long as I can do some testing without having to BUY another copy of Windows at first. I'm hoping to completely skip the Vista Experience, you know?
As this is not the final product, you'd better create a new partition on HDD and install RC there. Dual boot with XP is no problem.

Davinleeds

04-25-09, 10:11 AM

Don't need ASUS or Azentech with this:
http://www.msi.com/html/popup/MB/feature/blueray/index.html

I like this one:
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=790GX-G65&class=mb

What do you think?

Nobody mentions the audio?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813130224

rshanti

04-25-09, 11:40 AM

Hi Rene…

I’m finally ready to pull the trigger on building my HTPC. I really appreciate all the information you’ve supplied on this site and would like to ask you some rather specific questions about my proposed build. My proposed specs are:

CPU: Core 2 Quad Q8300 2.50GHz LGA775
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H LGA775 GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX
Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit
Graphics Card: ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M GeForce 9800 GT or ASUS EN9800GT MATRIX/HTDI/512M
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps
PSU: Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT
Sound Card: ASUS Xonar 1.3 Slim (when released)
Case: 1 of the following:

Antec Fusion Remote Black microATX.
SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum / Steel LC10B-E ATX
LIAN LI Black Aluminum PC-C37B Micro ATX

As you can see from my proposed specs, I plan on using your High End Intel/NVIDEA platform as my starting point. My questions mostly revolve around getting HDMI output from my GPU to my sound card (or vice versa) so that I can transport both HD audio and video to my Intergra Processor through a single HDMI cable, although I have a question about my choice of a case also.

I want to use the Xonar 1.3 slim (when it’s released) as my sound card and am thinking of using the ASUS EN9800GT MATRIX/HTDI/512M as my video card. My questions are:

How will I connect the video HDMI to the audio HDMI?

If I can connect them, do I need an HDMI external jack on both the sound card and the video card, or can I get a different (less expensive) video card (such as the ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M that doesn’t hae an outboard HDMI connection) and just use the HDMI output from the Xonar card?

As far as the case goes, do all of my listed options support all the cards I’m specing, both in size and dissipation of heat? If so, do you have a preference? I’m thinking I’ll have to stand this HTPC on its side to fit my configuration, does that change your opinioin on my list of cases?

I’m sure I’m going to have many other questions after I get started, but this will get me going (I think).

Thanks in advance for your expert reply.

I just saw that you've been very busy. I don't want to seem pushy, but just wanted to repost my request (questions) in case you have a chance to respond today. Hope you're doing OK and I'm looking forward to the W7 RC.

mandersonf

04-25-09, 01:50 PM

I'm more confused and a good advice will help, I saw the MSI motherboards that come with HD True Blu-ray and I don't know If this is abetter alternative than a Intel/Intel combination. My intention is to use this HTPC for audio and video. If I use The MSI AMD mortherboard with the Thermaltake DH-102 case, what is the recomendation for the rest of the components (Video, CPU, Memory, Power, etc...)

I'm planning to build a Premium Intel/Intel ATX System HTPC to replace a lot of components I have in my Home Theater Room (D-Link DSM-520 Media Player, CD Players, DVD Players, etc...).
I will keep my Onkyo TX-NR900 which is 7.1 and my Sharp XR-32X 1024x768 DLP projector (I have a 100" Screen)
I just have questions that maybe you can clarify for me.
1.- I'm planning on using the Thermaltake DH-102 case (the one with the 7" LCD). Do you think is a good case?, Does the components you are recommending will fit without any problems?, I'm gonna place this HTPC in the furniture that I build specially for my Home Theater, so it has the space needed for standard audio and video equipment, it is not closed from the front so I hope I will not have heat problems, What Do you think?
2.- I found out some testing results of motherboards and it seems that they are giving the gold choice to ASUS P6T-Deluxe and the silver to GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 (//forum.nexthardware.com/motherboards/58616-evga-x58-sli-gigabyte-ga-ex58-ud5-msi-eclipse-asus-p6t-deluxe.html). Of course for me the most important thing is audio and video Quality, I'm not a gaming fanatic, but I do a lot of multimedia stuff. Which one you think will be a better choice (or If you have another one in the range price)?
3.- What is a better audio solution: a) use a digital coax connection between the HTPC and my Onkyo Receiver, or b) Do an analog multichannel connection from the HTPC to the Onkyo? for option b, I need an audio card?, Why?
4.- Why the CPU cooler?, is not enough with the one that comes with the Core i7 920?
5.- I use UTP Cat5 Shielded cable between my Onkyo and my Sharp Projector using a component to RJ45 ATLONA Wall plate converter, it works fine but I'm planning to change those converters with a ATLONA Passive DVI-D to RJ45 to use the same UTP cable (//www.atlona.com/Atlona-1080p-DVI-Passive-Extender-over-Single-Cat5-up-to-100ft-NEW-p-17546.html), but now from my HTPC to the Projector. Do you thing this will be a problem?
6.- Is Western Digital a better HDD than a Seagate Barracuda?
7.- Does the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 will work with analog and Digital Cable signal?

Once again, thanks in advance

Miguel

captenblack

04-25-09, 02:28 PM

renethx

04-25-09, 04:08 PM

renethx

04-25-09, 04:20 PM

How will I connect the video HDMI to the audio HDMI?

If I can connect them, do I need an HDMI external jack on both the sound card and the video card, or can I get a different (less expensive) video card (such as the ASUS EN9800GT HB/HTDI/512M that doesn’t hae an outboard HDMI connection) and just use the HDMI output from the Xonar card?

As far as the case goes, do all of my listed options support all the cards I’m specing, both in size and dissipation of heat? If so, do you have a preference? I’m thinking I’ll have to stand this HTPC on its side to fit my configuration, does that change your opinioin on my list of cases?
You can't use PC-C37B because it's low-profile. Otherwise OK. Connect HDMI from video card to HDMI in of Xonar, then HDMI out to AVR. Is this a gaming machine? You can use GeForce 9500 GT instead.

rshanti

04-25-09, 04:36 PM

You can't use PC-C37B because it's low-profile. Otherwise OK. Connect HDMI from video card to HDMI in of Xonar, then HDMI out to AVR. Is this a gaming machine? You can use GeForce 9500 GT instead.

Thanks for the heads up on the low profile case. That saved me a problem!

This will strictly be a HTPC, no gaming. So if not gaming are you thinking the 9500 GT is just as good as the 9800's for streaming BD and DVD's?

BTW - This is a great thread and your expertise is vastly appreciated :)

renethx

04-25-09, 04:41 PM

1.- I'm planning on using the Thermaltake DH-102 case (the one with the 7" LCD). Do you think is a good case?, Does the components you are recommending will fit without any problems?, I'm gonna place this HTPC in the furniture that I build specially for my Home Theater, so it has the space needed for standard audio and video equipment, it is not closed from the front so I hope I will not have heat problems, What Do you think?
2.- I found out some testing results of motherboards and it seems that they are giving the gold choice to ASUS P6T-Deluxe and the silver to GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 (//forum.nexthardware.com/motherboards/58616-evga-x58-sli-gigabyte-ga-ex58-ud5-msi-eclipse-asus-p6t-deluxe.html). Of course for me the most important thing is audio and video Quality, I'm not a gaming fanatic, but I do a lot of multimedia stuff. Which one you think will be a better choice (or If you have another one in the range price)?
3.- What is a better audio solution: a) use a digital coax connection between the HTPC and my Onkyo Receiver, or b) Do an analog multichannel connection from the HTPC to the Onkyo? for option b, I need an audio card?, Why?
4.- Why the CPU cooler?, is not enough with the one that comes with the Core i7 920?
5.- I use UTP Cat5 Shielded cable between my Onkyo and my Sharp Projector using a component to RJ45 ATLONA Wall plate converter, it works fine but I'm planning to change those converters with a ATLONA Passive DVI-D to RJ45 to use the same UTP cable (//www.atlona.com/Atlona-1080p-DVI-Passive-Extender-over-Single-Cat5-up-to-100ft-NEW-p-17546.html), but now from my HTPC to the Projector. Do you thing this will be a problem?
6.- Is Western Digital a better HDD than a Seagate Barracuda?
7.- Does the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 will work with analog and Digital Cable signal?
Basically I recommend you to stick to my recommendations. ASUS mb is also good, as well as MSI X58 Pro (much cheaper). Gold vs Silver is mainly based on better support for multi-GPU and overclocking, none of which is essential for HTPC. If you don't use a gaming card, then any ATX case should be fine (I am not sure of Thermaltake DH-102). But then you have to change the cooler to something else (I like Geminii S). As Onkyo TX-NR900 lacks HDMI, the best solution is

- Radeon HD 4670/GeForce 9500 GT (video) + ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe (analog audio) + TotalMedia Theater 3 Platinum.

Of course you can use onboard S/PDIF audio instead. HVR-2250 support analog and digital (read the manual if you want to know more).

renethx

04-25-09, 04:44 PM

Great thread. Quick question, I'll be building an htpc soon and am starting to pick up parts.

Any comments on the SAPPHIRE 100265HDMI Radeon HD 4830 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102822) vs the one renethx recommends (SAPPHIRE 100255DDR4 Radeon HD 4670)?

The 4830 is cheaper after rebate/free shipping and appears to be a better model... just wondering if it even matters.
I recommend 4670 (unless you are going to play games). 4830 consumes more power (for nothing) and may suffer from a driver bug (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1136909)). Simply 4670 is necessary and sufficent for the best video playback.

renethx

04-25-09, 04:48 PM

So if not gaming are you thinking the 9500 GT is just as good as the 9800's for streaming BD and DVD's?
9500 GT is necessary and sufficent for the best video playback.

slowlybuilt

04-25-09, 06:17 PM

Which of these three combos would you all recommend?

1) AMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor

BIOSTAR TFORCE TA790GX 128M AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

2) Intel Pentium E5200 Wolfdale 2.5GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor

ECS G31T-M(1.0) LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

SAPPHIRE 100252HDMI Radeon HD 4550 512MB 64-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Low Profile Ready Video Card

3) AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor

JetWay JHA07-ULTRA-LF AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

Options 1 and 3 would use the iGPU. All three options are priced between $130-$150 total. Which of these 3 is going to produce the best HD video and audio from ATSC recordings? Is there another option that would produce a significant performance increase for a small price increase (<$20)

Thanks for all the help.

renethx

04-25-09, 06:34 PM

slowlybuilt

04-25-09, 07:23 PM

You'd better add HD 4670 for 1080i. Check this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1136909).

That would make the cost of option 2 about $147, with this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814140095&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-Apollo+Inc.-_-14140095)card, but I'm not sure if it would fit on that mobo without blocking the PCI Express x1 slot, which is what I planned on using for the Hauppage 2250.

So you would recommend option 2 with the HD4670? I don't think that mobo does 8 channel audio, does the HD4670 handle the audio?

Option 1 and 3 are probably out of range with that card for now, but I could buy them now, evaluate the resulting video with the iGPU and decide if I want to add the HD 4670 later.

renethx

04-25-09, 07:41 PM

That would make the cost of option 2 about $147, with this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814140095&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Video+Cards-_-Apollo+Inc.-_-14140095)card, but I'm not sure if it would fit on that mobo without blocking the PCI Express x1 slot, which is what I planned on using for the Hauppage 2250.

So you would recommend option 2 with the HD4670? I don't think that mobo does 8 channel audio, does the HD4670 handle the audio?

Option 1 and 3 are probably out of range with that card for now, but I could buy them now, evaluate the resulting video with the iGPU and decide if I want to add the HD 4670 later.
You need a different mb for PCIe x1 such as this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157146).

Which audio format are you going to use, HDMI (7.1 LPCM, DD, DTS), S/PDIF (stereo LPCM, DD, DTS) or analog?

slowlybuilt

04-25-09, 08:04 PM

You need a different mb for PCIe x1 such as this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157146).

Which audio format are you going to use, HDMI (7.1 LPCM, DD, DTS), S/PDIF (stereo LPCM, DD, DTS) or analog?

That board adds about $20 to the already growing costs.

I need HDMI DD and DTS now, with an upgrade to LPCM for bluray playback within 6 month also via HDMI

renethx

04-25-09, 08:13 PM

That board adds about $20 to the already growing costs.

I need HDMI DD and DTS now, with an upgrade to LPCM for bluray playback within 6 month also via HDMI
You could go with IGP, but they have video and/or HDMI audio limitations:

- 760G/V, 780V: all lack UVD (no good for HD contents)
- 760G/V, 780G/V, 790GX: HDMI audio does not support 7.1 LPCM (stereo only, in addition to DD/DTS).

So right now Athlon 7750+780G/790GX mb, then upgrade the graphics to Radeon HD 5xxx six months later.

captenblack

04-25-09, 09:31 PM

I recommend 4670 (unless you are going to play games). 4830 consumes more power (for nothing) and may suffer from a driver bug (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1136909)). Simply 4670 is necessary and sufficent for the best video playback.

Thanks for the info. I've been thinking about this motherboard:

GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-UD2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128390)

Is that likely ok with the Sapphire 4670 card?

slowlybuilt

04-25-09, 09:44 PM

You could go with IGP, but they have video and/or HDMI audio limitations:

- 760G/V, 780V: all lack UVD (no good for HD contents)
- 760G/V, 780G/V, 790GX: HDMI audio does not support 7.1 LPCM (stereo only, in addition to DD/DTS).

So right now Athlon 7750+780G/790GX mb, then upgrade the graphics to Radeon HD 5xxx six months later.

Thank you so much for all your help this past month!!!

Just to be clear, the future Radeon HD 5xxx boards will have 7.1 LPCM audio support on them? So around say Black Friday, I can pick up a bluray drive and a HD 5xxx and be good to go for all its picture and sound glory?

Thanks again, I think I'm sold now on an Athlon 7750 + 790GX board using the iGPU. I'm really hoping I like the results so that I don't get upgraditis too early. And, fingers crossed, won't ever need to upgrade the graphics. (assuming I buy a sound card with the bluray player)

renethx

04-25-09, 09:49 PM

Thanks for the info. I've been thinking about this motherboard:

GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-UD2H (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128390)

Is that likely ok with the Sapphire 4670 card?
Yup, the mb should work fine with Sapphire 4670. (The mb has a big improvement over the previous model GA-EG45M-DS2H in the PCI Express x16 slot.)

mandersonf

04-25-09, 09:50 PM

Basically I recommend you to stick to my recommendations. ASUS mb is also good, as well as MSI X58 Pro (much cheaper). Gold vs Silver is mainly based on better support for multi-GPU and overclocking, none of which is essential for HTPC. If you don't use a gaming card, then any ATX case should be fine (I am not sure of Thermaltake DH-102). But then you have to change the cooler to something else (I like Geminii S). As Onkyo TX-NR900 lacks HDMI, the best solution is

- Radeon HD 4670/GeForce 9500 GT (video) + ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe (analog audio) + TotalMedia Theater 3 Platinum.

Of course you can use onboard S/PDIF audio instead. HVR-2250 support analog and digital (read the manual if you want to know more).

Rene,

What Do you think of the MSI 790FX-GD70 MoBo that has the Blu-Ray audio (instead of using the the asus Xonar HDVA1.3 Deluxe)? If you think this could be a real good option, which procesor, memory, Graphic card, cooler, etc use to have premium video an audio quality. I'm not planning to connect the video signal tru the onkyo, I will connect the video signal directly to my DVI-D port of my Sharp Projector and the audio signal to my onkyo (optical / Coax Digital or Multichannel analog, which one is better?)

I just wait to your recommendation to star buying all the parts.

Thanks again
Miguel

renethx

04-25-09, 09:52 PM

Thank you so much for all your help this past month!!!

Just to be clear, the future Radeon HD 5xxx boards will have 7.1 LPCM audio support on them? So around say Black Friday, I can pick up a bluray drive and a HD 5xxx and be good to go for all its picture and sound glory?
HD 5xxx as well as the current HD 4xxx supports 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. HD 3xxx (including IGPs) supports only stereo. High-end HD 5xxx is expected in July and mid-range/low-end follow.

renethx

04-25-09, 10:14 PM

Rene,

What Do you think of the MSI 790FX-GD70 MoBo that has the Blu-Ray audio (instead of using the the asus Xonar HDVA1.3 Deluxe)? If you think this could be a real good option, which procesor, memory, Graphic card, cooler, etc use to have premium video an audio quality. I'm not planning to connect the video signal tru the onkyo, I will connect the video signal directly to my DVI-D port of my Sharp Projector and the audio signal to my onkyo (optical / Coax Digital or Multichannel analog, which one is better?)

I just wait to your recommendation to star buying all the parts.

Thanks again
Miguel
MSI 790FX-GD70 along with the new Phenom II X4 955 will be used in the next update of the ATX premium AMD/AMD system.

Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition HDZ955FBGIBOX 3.2GHz AM3, $245.
Xigmatek Dark Knight-S1283V, $40.
MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD 790FX chipset ATX, $180.
G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ DDR3-1600 2 x 2GB Kit, $60.
Radeon HD 4890 GDDR5 1GB, $249.
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
Antec Signature 850 850W, $220.
SilverStone Crown CW02 SST-CW02S-MXR ATX, $360.
Total: $1424
You can change components according to your needs. For example, if you don't need a high-end gaming card,

Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition HDZ955FBGIBOX 3.2GHz AM3, $245.
Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP, $28.
MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD 790FX chipset ATX, $180.
G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ DDR3-1600 2 x 2GB Kit, $60.
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB, $80.
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT, $101.
Thermaltake DH-102 ATX, $440.
Total: $1204
But the BD audio refers to analog from the onboard audio and you should not expect top-notch quality as expected from Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe + TotalMedia Theater 3. Moreover you will need PowerDVD 9 Ultra (a future update; unknown release date) for full quality HD audio.

slowlybuilt

04-25-09, 11:13 PM

HD 5xxx as well as the current HD 4xxx supports 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. HD 3xxx (including IGPs) supports only stereo. High-end HD 5xxx is expected in July and mid-range/low-end follow.

Thanks again!

HD 3xxx supports DD 5.1 bitstream though right?

Last question before I start assembling the actual components. Is there much real world variance between 790GX boards? Or is one 790GX mobo just about as good as another. I'm not OCing, not gaming and won't need many card slots.

Basicly I want to know if I can buy the cheapest 790GX board available and get similar results when compared to the more expensive ones without any real visible loss in video quality.

Thank you, thank you and thank you again.

renethx

04-25-09, 11:38 PM

Thanks again!

HD 3xxx supports DD 5.1 bitstream though right?

Last question before I start assembling the actual components. Is there much real world variance between 790GX boards? Or is one 790GX mobo just about as good as another. I'm not OCing, not gaming and won't need many card slots.

Basicly I want to know if I can buy the cheapest 790GX board available and get similar results when compared to the more expensive ones without any real visible loss in video quality.
Yes, HD 3xxx supports stereo LPCM, DD and DTS.

BIOSTAR TA790GX 128M is one of the best budget 790GX mbs.

slowlybuilt

04-26-09, 12:37 AM

Yes, HD 3xxx supports stereo LPCM, DD and DTS.

BIOSTAR TA790GX 128M is one of the best budget 790GX mbs.

Thanks, but that actually brings up another couple of questions.

The PCIx16 is very close PCIx1 slot on that Biostar board. If I try and add a GPU later that has a large heat spreader or fan later on, won't it cover the slot next to it that I need for my TV tuner? The Jetway card is full ATX and has 2 PCIx16 slots, so even if one is covered the other is available for my tuner. That Biostar board does appeal to me because its cheaper, saving me about $20, but I don't want to be blocked from adding a GPU in the future.

Again, thank you for all your patience with me. I'll be placing my orders in the next couple days and then it will be time to assemble and experiment with software:D

flight23

04-26-09, 12:58 AM

I am looking to build a "HTPC" to run XBMC and output via component video (via DVI to component adapter) and digital coax audio into a video distribution system. The HTPC will be on 24-7 and will be in the basement where XBMC will be controlled via a home automation system. I dont need a pretty case, quiet power supply, or blu-ray drive.

My requirements are just that it plays h.264/mkv files and outputs component video and digital coax audio, preferably with the lowest power consumption. I already have an old ATX case, dvd drive, and hard drive. Can anyone recommend low cost, low power consumption items for the following that will let me do what I want without hiccups:

1) Motherboard (ASUS M3A78-EM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G ?)
2) Processor (AMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 45W ?)
3) Video card (if needed, I prefer onboard if possible)
4) Sound card (again, only if needed for the digital coax audio output)

Thanks!

EDIT: Did some reading and it looks like in order to output component video I need a mobo or video card with a DVI-I connector as opposed to DVI-D?

renethx

04-26-09, 01:00 AM

Thanks, but that actually brings up another couple of questions.

The PCIx16 is very close PCIx1 slot on that Biostar board. If I try and add a GPU later that has a large heat spreader or fan later on, won't it cover the slot next to it that I need for my TV tuner? The Jetway card is full ATX and has 2 PCIx16 slots, so even if one is covered the other is available for my tuner. That Biostar board does appeal to me because its cheaper, saving me about $20, but I don't want to be blocked from adding a GPU in the future.
:confused: For me the slot arragement of BIOSTAR TA790GX 128M looks exactly identical with Jetway JHA07-ULTRA-LF: PCIe x16, PCIe x1, PCIe x1, PCIe x16, PCI, PCI. Even if you attach a 2-slot graphics card, you can still use two PCIe x1 tuners in either board.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140839&stc=1&d=1240721611 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140840&stc=1&d=1240721611

mandersonf

04-26-09, 01:02 AM

MSI 790FX-GD70 along with the new Phenom II X4 955 will be used in the next update of the ATX premium AMD/AMD system.

Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition HDZ955FBGIBOX 3.2GHz AM3, $245.
Xigmatek Dark Knight-S1283V, $40.
MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD 790FX chipset ATX, $180.
G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ DDR3-1600 2 x 2GB Kit, $60.
Radeon HD 4890 GDDR5 1GB, $249.
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
Antec Signature 850 850W, $220.
SilverStone Crown CW02 SST-CW02S-MXR ATX, $360.
Total: $1424
You can change components according to your needs. For example, if you don't need a high-end gaming card,

Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition HDZ955FBGIBOX 3.2GHz AM3, $245.
Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBJ1-GP, $28.
MSI 790FX-GD70 AM3 AMD 790FX chipset ATX, $180.
G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ DDR3-1600 2 x 2GB Kit, $60.
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB, $80.
Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
Enermax PRO82+ 525W EPR525AWT, $101.
Thermaltake DH-102 ATX, $440.
Total: $1204
But the BD audio refers to analog from the onboard audio and you should not expect top-notch quality as expected from Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe + TotalMedia Theater 3. Moreover you will need PowerDVD 9 Ultra (a future update; unknown release date) for full quality HD audio.

Rene,

I really apreciate your recomendations. Thanks a lot.
So you think that the $1204 option (+ maybe the Xonar HDAV1.2 Deluxe) is the best one for audio and video quality and performance? or should I go with an INTEL/INTEL Config. (In all my PC's I had never used AMD so I don't know if is really a good option vs. Intel).

Once again, Thanks!!!

Miguel

slowlybuilt

04-26-09, 02:00 AM

:confused: For me the slot arragement of BIOSTAR TA790GX 128M looks exactly identical with Jetway JHA07-ULTRA-LF: PCIe x16, PCIe x1, PCIe x1, PCIe x16, PCI, PCI. Even if you attach a 2-slot graphics card, you can still use two PCIe x1 tuners in either board.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140839&stc=1&d=1240721611 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=140840&stc=1&d=1240721611

Maybe we are looking at different boards. This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138140)is the layout I found.

Oh I see now, you were referring to the ATX version and when I went googling I found the microATX version of the Biostar. Hmm, that makes the price the same after rebate $154 for the CPU+mobo

Downgrading the CPU to the 5050e would cut the price to $136 after rebate. Is this savings in money and electricity worth it in terms of performance? I see on the chart that the 5050e paired with HD 3200 didn't have great ratings, but this would be the 5050e + HD 3300. Does this make a difference?

renethx

04-26-09, 02:07 AM

Rene,

I really appreciate your recommendations. Thanks a lot.
So you think that the $1204 option (+ maybe the Xonar HDAV1.2 Deluxe) is the best one for audio and video quality and performance? or should I go with an INTEL/INTEL Config. (In all my PC's I had never used AMD so I don't know if is really a good option vs. Intel).
If you do lots of encoding and/or video editing in HTPC (this type of work is usually best done with an office/desktop PC), then Core i7 is recommended. Otherwise Phenom II is a good processor. Phenom II X4 955/790FX-GD70 may be even overkill for a normal HTPC. In particular 790FX-GD70 is targeted at multi-GPU solution (CrossFire). I recommend you to look at the ATX mid-range AMD/AMD system for a pure HTPC. Difference between mid-range, high-end, and premium systems is:

- Mid-range: for pure HTPC; best video playback with no compromise
- High-end: better CPU and GPU for other tasks such as encoding and games
- Premium: best overall system for every kind of work (video editing, encoding, gaming etc.)

renethx

04-26-09, 02:19 AM

Maybe we are looking at different boards. This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138140)is the layout I found.

Oh I see now, you were referring to the ATX version and when I went googling I found the microATX version of the Biostar. Hmm, that makes the price the same after rebate $154 for the CPU+mobo
Both of the model names BIOSTAR TA790GX 128M ATX mb and JetWay JHA07-ULTRA-LF ATX mb are seen in your first post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16341783#post16341783).

If you mean BIOSTAR TA790GX XE mATX, then this is not good for you beause a 2-slot graphic card blocks the only PCIe x1 slot. Which form factor do you want, ATX or mATX?

jshay

04-26-09, 02:49 AM

I'm new to HTPC and have spent the last few days reading a whole lot, and it's time to ask some questions...

I intend to build a Win7 MCE box, whose primary function will be to record HD TV from dual tuner OTA or from a Comcast cable line. Playing blueray will also be a scenario. No games.

Since it's primarily used for dual tuner recording, does that mean I need to focus on the encoding specs? The chart on Page 85 shows that you don't get to "Good/Supported" encoding until entering the "High End" systems. Am I interpretting that correctly? Or should I be okay with a Mid-Range system, which is closer to my ideal price range?

I have a unique scenario where I want to put the machine in my office, and send a single HDMI cable through the wall to my receiver (JVC RX-D702), and a single HDMI cable from that to my TV. This opens up some options for case form factors, as I'm not limited to something that looks pretty and fits in the [very small] cabinet. But if I can build it out on micro-ATX, then I will, to allow for a fancy case later.

HDMI needs to carry both audio and video. DD / DTS 5.1 is a must, and if I can get 7.1 even better.

So assuming mid-range is ideal for me, here's my starting point:
- MOBO: GA-MA78GM-US2H (or GA-MA78GM-S2HP - what's the difference?)
- CPU: Phenom II X3 710 HDX710WFGIBOX 2.6GHz AM3
(or is lower-end Athlon X2 5050e sufficient?)
- GFX: Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4

Is that a good starting point?

In that setup, how would the audio get to the HDMI? Would the MOBO process it and send it to the video card, or would the video card do both audio and video? I didn't see any place on the picture of the video card to plug in an audio cable (not sure if that's how it works). Would this that handle 7.1, or just 5.1 DD/DTS?

slowlybuilt

04-26-09, 02:52 AM

Both of the model names BIOSTAR TA790GX 128M ATX mb and JetWay JHA07-ULTRA-LF ATX mb are seen in your first post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16341783#post16341783).

If you mean BIOSTAR TA790GX XE mATX, then this is not good for you beause a 2-slot graphic card blocks the only PCIe x1 slot. Which form factor do you want, ATX or mATX?

Sorry for the miscommunication, I think I had too many shopping carts and browser tabs open and got confused.

I would prefer the cheaper option, mATX, however I see that would be a problem as I need the space for possible future upgrades. So I guess I'm going with ATX.

I'm still curious if the 5050e + HD 3300 is a better bang for my buck than the 7750 +HD 3300. I see that your chart refers to the 5050e + HD 3200's performance. Does the upgrade from HD 3200 to HD 3300 produce a significant enough performance boost to allow for down grading the processor to the 5050e? The 5050e would also use less electricity, which is something I'm also taking into consideration.

Thanks as always.