Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 40

price3

08-26-09, 12:42 PM

I use PowerDVD as well that came with my LG drive, I'm happy with it.
Alot of people use mpc-hc, tmt3, pwdvd.

I'm like you, I don't want to spend more money for software.

I'm not sure what you mean about no audio is output over hdmi, because that's false.

You can look into mpc-hc(media player classic-home cinema) it is free

I personally like pdvd better.

You can say it's false for you, but for me it's true. I have sound working over HDMI from my 4870 for windows 7 and other stuff, but when I put in a blu disc all I get is picture. The drive has updated firmware, and powerdvd 7.3 also did an update when I installed it. Very frustrating.

tlguapo

08-26-09, 06:32 PM

I finally picked up some hardware and just have a question regarding the GPU.

I'm using the amd 5050e cpu with a 780 chipset. I'd like to get a GPU for it and found there is only a $20 difference between the 4550 and the 4670. From what I can tell there would be little, if any, difference for BD and other video content. Obviously, the 4670 will outperform the 4550 in any gaming application, but my question is whether my CPU will bottleneck the GPU? If it does bottleneck, then I'm thinking why waste $20 if I won't get any of the extra performance?

dbone1026

08-26-09, 06:45 PM

tlguapo

08-26-09, 06:52 PM

Go with the 4670. I have a 4850e CPU and there is no CPU bottleneck

Thanks for the really fast response dbone! Already ordered a 4670 from the egg. :)

dbone1026

08-26-09, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the really fast response dbone! Already ordered a 4670 from the egg. :)

Sweet, good luck with everything!!!

indecision

08-26-09, 08:22 PM

Rene,

I was looking at your recommendations for a mid range amd/amd system on the previous page and everything looks great to me except that my current SilverStone case uses a full ATX motherboard. Can you recommend a full size Gigabyte with similar specs?

Thanks!

renethx

08-26-09, 08:46 PM

Svante

08-27-09, 06:04 AM

GA-MA790GP-UD4H should be good.

I have been looking into ATX MB size as well for my upcomming build.
Im actully leaning towards the Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H (i've choosen DDR3 version since DDR2 version isn't available in any shops here in DK)
This is mainly based on the price difference between 785G based and 790G based boards: 90 euro for GA-MA785GT-UD3H and 135 euro for GA-MA790GP-UD4H

Isn't the 785G just as good as 790G ?

topperdude

08-27-09, 11:58 AM

I recently purchased a Gigabyte GA-MA770-UD3 motherboard for an HTPC/multimedia server build. The server will be in my basement utility room/workshop area with very light gaming but primarily for:

a) PVR duties including
- ripping Blu-rays/DVDs/HD DVDs I own,
- recording TV and serving up Live TV,
- serving recorded content to clients such as PCH connected to TVs, Wii (Hulu via Playon), other PCs in the house, etc)
b) Multimedia duties including
- transferring/editing movies off camcorder)

I got the rev 2 of this motherboard with ACC and with the 8-pin power connector (versus 4-pin in rev 1).

Would appreciate feedback/suggestions for:
a) Processors - Am considering matching it up with the Phenom II X3 720. Would this be sufficient, especially for the transcoding the Hulu content?
b) Would I be able to use this Sunbeam cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835207004) with the above processor. I have this cooler from a recent deal but not sure if it works with AM3 boards. If not, would appreciate suggestions for alternatives.
c) Video card - Either this HIS 4650 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161262) or an older XFX 7600GS (since its server), both of which I already own.
d) Would this Coolermaster Case + the incl PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119210) work well to house the above system or would I need a more beefy PSU? How do coolermaster PSU's compare to say Antec or Corsair?
e) Would appreciate suggestions for RAM.
f) Hard drives - Planning to use existing IDE and SATA drives and expand as needed
g) Optical Drive - Already own GGC-H20L.

Other hardware connected to system:
a) 1 or 2 HD-PVRs feeding HD audio/video content from set top boxes via USB ports.
b) Internal hauppauge TV Tuners (Currently HVR 1600 from server being replaced by this build + possibly more PCI-e tuners in future).
c) Occasional camcorder hookups via Firewire or USB for transferring home movies.

Thanks,
-Topper

MordredKLB

08-27-09, 01:01 PM

I have been looking into ATX MB size as well for my upcomming build.
Im actully leaning towards the Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H (i've choosen DDR3 version since DDR2 version isn't available in any shops here in DK)
This is mainly based on the price difference between 785G based and 790G based boards: 90 euro for GA-MA785GT-UD3H and 135 euro for GA-MA790GP-UD4H

Isn't the 785G just as good as 790G ?
I'm leaning towards the GA-MA785GT-UD3H as well and pairing it up with an X3 720 and hoping I get a chip that can have the 4th core unlocked. If I don't luck out, I'm no worse off than I was before.

Benight27

08-27-09, 06:54 PM

I don't have a setup put to gether yet but these are my wants and needs for my HTPC:

Video:

1. Playback- 720p, 1080i (Ripped Movies on HDD).

2. Playback- 480p, 720p, 1080i (Recorded SD and HD content from digital cable provider).

3. Playback- Downloaded TV and Movies from Bit Torrent (can these be up-scaled or up-converted to HD somehow? Currently I watch them from USb drive plugged into a XB 360).

Audio: Play audio from stored/downloaded/recorded Movies and Tv shows through 5.1 surround sound via Optical Toslink cable (My receiver only has HDMI out).

Record: SD and HD content from cable box (Do I need a specific tuner or capture card to record from digital cable box???)

Connection: (Would like to connect computer to TV via HDMI) and (Connect computer to surround receiver via Optical Toslink cable).

Download:

1. Need the HTPC to run Torrent Episode Down loader (TED) for TV Episodes pretty much continously, execpt when HTPC is turned off.

2. Download content (I.e Movies) from Bit Torrent.

Graphics Card:

1. Is one integrated in an MB sufficient enough for my needs (I.e watching 720p, 1080i, and up-converting)?

2. If separate purchases is necessary, then any recommendations for type model for 720p, 1080i and up-converting?

HTPC type: Recommendations for using either:

1. Mini-Itx System
2. Micro ATX System
4. ATX System
5. Manufactured HTPC ( if so any recommendations for one $500 or less that would work well with my needs and activities?

OS: I am familar with Microsoft but don't mind giving Linux a try.

Case: One that will work for the above activities and products, but can I use the included PSU, or would I need to buy a separate PSU?

Budget: I would like to keep my budget around $500 or less but definately below $1000 (ie too broke for that).

Priorities:

1. My main priority would be for quality (I.e Least amount of pixilaton as possible, up-converting and picture quality ) from playing stored/ripped/downloaded/recorded movies and Tv shows.

2. Another priority would be storage so I don't have to keep deleting content from my 8gb flash drive on my XB 360!

3. Last priority would be for it to be pretty quiet and be able to run almost 27/7.

Not Important is web browsing and no gaming will be done.

I could use some product recommendations for the following:

CPU:
CPU Cooler: if not included with CPU
Motherboard:
Graphics Card: If needed other than integrated in MB
Sound Card: If needed other than integrated in MB
HDD: any ideas on brand, type, and storage amount?
PSU: if not included in case, or one in case is not sufficient
Recording Device: can do SD and HD from digital cable box.
Software: any additional needed for my activities
Case: PSU included or not?

Or: is there an already manufactured one that will work just fine for me?

Lastly: is this post completely unnecessary and one of renethx's recommendations would work for me, if so which one?

Thanks to anyone who has thoughts and any recommendations for me!!

renethx

08-27-09, 08:29 PM

dbone1026

08-27-09, 08:43 PM

dbone1026

08-28-09, 08:15 AM

@ Renethx

Having problems with the Chenbro SR109 case again. I got the HDD cages. I have the first cage installed and the system runs fine. The moment I install the second and third cage (or just the second) the case starts beeping like crazy. No error messages show on the LCD screen though. I even put a HDD into the 2nd HDD cage while beeping and WHS recognized the drive. The only way to get the noise to shut off is to remove the power from these HDD cages. Any ideas what could be going on?

@ Renethx - I removed the functioning HDD cage and conencted it to the molex connectors I was using on the two cages that were setting off the alarm. The cage had no problems (so I confirmed that there wer no issues with the molex connectors being used). I pretty much ruled out that it was a PSU issue, so looks like 2 out of the 3 HDD cages I received are bad, I will have to RMA

preludejtstyle

08-28-09, 09:05 AM

not sure if this is the right place for this:

*I built a new Core i7 build about one/two months ago. Love it! However:
I am a minimalist. My Monitor has HDMI input, and an output headphone jack. I would love to use that for my headphones.

*My problem comes that my motherboard nor my video card have HDMI. I play a lot of games, but am not hardcore by any means.

*How can I fix this? I don't mind spending the money on a solution, as long as it isn't obtrusive.

Intel DX58SO - Motherboard
Intel Core i7 920 - Processor
EVGA GTS 250 512mb - Video Card
LG W2361V - Monitor

Svante

08-28-09, 11:20 AM

Davecraze

08-29-09, 11:34 AM

I am having an very odd issue with a HTPC I just built last week.

Hardware:

Motherboard - Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H
CPU - E5200 wolfdale, R0 stepping
Memory - G-skill 4 gb ddr2-800
Hdrives - Three samsung spinpoint 1.5tb
Optical - Sony optiarc dvd/cd burner
Case - Cooler master sileo 500
PSU - Rosewill rp500-2
CPU cooler - Arctic cooling freezer 7 pro

Problem: l do not have the CPU overclocked. When I look at the processor in CPU-Z, it shows a multiplier of 12.5 and FSB of 200 for a total of 2.5 Ghz. All as expected. However, about every 10-15 seconds, that changes to multiplier of 6 and a FSB of 200 for a total of 1.2Ghz. It is almost like it is randomly alternating to a 6x multiplier then back to 12x.

Has anyone ever heard of this before?

I don't know if it is really clocking down to 1.2ghz or not but I have never seen anything like that.

I ran some 1080p content over the geforce 9400 using HDMI and on long pans
and occasionally when there is a lot of info on the screen, I get very minor slow downs or very slight hiccups. From everything i have read, an E5200 with the geforce 9400 should be able to handle 1080p with no such issues.

Maybe the CPU really is clocking down and then causing the video issues because it is only 1.2ghz for a short time.

Any idea? Thanks in advance.

-David

tsanga

08-29-09, 12:59 PM

Isn't that just Intel Speedstep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIST) kicking in? Your processor clocks down to save power.

Davecraze

08-29-09, 03:04 PM

Doh! Thanks for that - I really had no idea that speedstep was a feature on desktop CPUs; thought it was only mobile CPUs. Is there a way to disable it, as it doesnt automatically seem to jump back to 12.5 multiplier under CPU load?

tsanga

08-29-09, 03:38 PM

You can disable "EIST" in BIOS but why? The CPU is smart enough to regulate itself. I'd be surprised if it didn't automatically step up. You can test it with Prime95 (http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft/#newusers) - watch what it does in CPU-Z when you fire up the small fft test.

Tijs_Verwest

08-29-09, 05:31 PM

The sockets are different. You can't use a desktop processor in a mobile mb and vice versa.

Damn , and i was thinking i could save those extra 100$ T.T

TombKeeper

08-30-09, 12:49 AM

From the ATX builds, for both High-end and Premium, are any setups 'better' than the others within each group? Or do they all have the same capabilites? (not meaning # of pcie slots or stuff like that)

gfortune1981

08-30-09, 08:49 AM

Any suggestions for a slim BD burner and HD reader?

Please see my build on page 313.

Thanks!

rogue409

08-31-09, 09:33 AM

I'm putting together a mini-ITX system using the Apex MI-008 and an LG GGW-H20L Blu-Ray/ HD-DVD drive. The drive is 146 x 41.3 x 185 mm, and it's a little bit too long to use with standard SATA connectors. I'm not sure if this is common knowledge or not - the miniITX cases are a little tight on space.

I ended up getting a SATA 2 connector and a Molex-SATA cables with 90 degree bend from monoprice. They should do the trick, and they're pretty cheap.

I'll update when they arrive.

Update: The connectors with a 90 degree bend work nicely.

Threxx

08-31-09, 03:13 PM

kevm14

08-31-09, 03:46 PM

I am looking for an HTPC board to use with an ATI 4670. I've settled on the 4670 for video processing and the component video support. Can anyone recommend a good micro ATX board with an on-board S/PDIF that properly passes DD 5.1 and DTS audio? I've read at least one review that stated the on-board S/PDIF did only stereo PCM, which makes no sense since DD/DTS is just compressed data on those 2 PCM channels.

For AMD stuff I was looking at stuff with the 785 or 790 chipset. For AMD CPU, I settled on the 705e x3. I've been looking mainly at Newegg. I guess I don't care about on-board video.

Is an equivalent Intel board + CPU cheaper?

Will the 4670 do the next gen HD audio via HDMI when I upgrade my TV and receiver in a few years?

dbone1026

08-31-09, 03:54 PM

kevm14

08-31-09, 04:01 PM

Is it me or is that ATX? The HTPC case I was looking at can only accommodate a microATX board. And why are none of the microATX boards able to obtain such a high customer rating?

dbone1026

08-31-09, 04:05 PM

Is it me or is that ATX? The HTPC case I was looking at can only accommodate a microATX board. And why are none of the microATX boards able to obtain such a high customer rating?

Ooops, wrong one, this is what I meant to link to:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394

kevm14

08-31-09, 04:09 PM

Thanks. This looks good. Can you verify if the toslink/audio chipset can do DD 5.1/DTS from DVD, BD and ATSC sources?

tsanga

08-31-09, 04:11 PM

Renethx, might be worth waiting to do your new writeup for another couple weeks since there's some new processors on their way out.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/31/intel-rumored-to-be-launching-new-core-i5-i7-processors-septemb/

Then again you very likely were planning on waiting another couple weeks anyway.:D

I wonder when corei7 boards will start offering integrated graphics? If they already are, I haven't seen any, even though I've seen articles nearly a year old talking about integrated graphics being developed for that processor line.

rene's on top of it. See his thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1172451).

I am looking for an HTPC board to use with an ATI 4670. I've settled on the 4670 for video processing and the component video support. Can anyone recommend a good micro ATX board with an on-board S/PDIF that properly passes DD 5.1 and DTS audio? I've read at least one review that stated the on-board S/PDIF did only stereo PCM, which makes no sense since DD/DTS is just compressed data on those 2 PCM channels.

For AMD stuff I was looking at stuff with the 785 or 790 chipset. For AMD CPU, I settled on the 705e x3. I've been looking mainly at Newegg. I guess I don't care about on-board video.

Is an equivalent Intel board + CPU cheaper?

Will the 4670 do the next gen HD audio via HDMI when I upgrade my TV and receiver in a few years?

For Intel boards, any of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010200280+1070509908+1075211332+1075707619&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&Subcategory=280&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=) with SPDIF output would do, just pick the set of mobo features you need/want (BIOS settings, number of RAM slots, etc.). Then stick a E5200 or E7400 in it. Since you're using a 4670, the IGP doesn't matter as much.

kevm14

08-31-09, 04:16 PM

Looks like an intel board + E7400 is almost exactly the same price as the AMD solution. Do you think the E7400 is as strong as the 705e which is a Phenom II 2.5GHz with 3 cores?

EDIT: Well it looks like the 905e, which is a 4 core version of the 705e, is about the same as the E7400 (at least by "Passmark" metric). So I guess that means the E7400 would outperform the 705e.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

tsanga

08-31-09, 04:24 PM

Also, Intel's 65W TDP may be far more conservative than AMD's 65W TDP (Intel's is very impressive). See reference (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17064630#post17064630).

ADD: More cores may be beneficial for encoding, but otherwise, higher clock is better.

Tijs_Verwest

08-31-09, 04:24 PM

isnt there a cheaper core 2 duo processor than the Core 2 Duo P8600 2.4GHz? 220$ seems TOO much :(

stimcity

08-31-09, 04:28 PM

tsanga

08-31-09, 04:31 PM

isnt there a cheaper core 2 duo processor than the Core 2 Duo P8600 2.4GHz? 220$ seems TOO much :(

Are you trying to buy a mobile processor? Do you have to have socket P? On mobile, there're plenty of options besides P8600.

kevm14

08-31-09, 04:33 PM

Fair enough. Perhaps the Intel setup is the better choice. Though I need at least 1 PCIe x1 for the tuner. Some of these boards are like $130. That is pricey.

tsanga

08-31-09, 04:37 PM

Tijs_Verwest

08-31-09, 05:35 PM

Are you trying to buy a mobile processor? Do you have to have socket P? On mobile, there're plenty of options besides P8600.

no i dont have to have socket p, what i want to have is a mini-atx board and a core 2 duo cpu ,arent mobile processors supposed to be for mini atx boards? :o

tsanga

08-31-09, 05:48 PM

Are you going for mini-ITX or micro ATX? I don't think mini ATX is very common.

Either way, they're all desktop platforms. For desktop C2D, you need socket LGA 775 - plenty of options.

Tijs_Verwest

08-31-09, 06:29 PM

Are you going for mini-ITX or micro ATX? I don't think mini ATX is very common.

Either way, they're all desktop platforms. For desktop C2D, you need socket LGA 775 - plenty of options.

isnt mini atx supoosed to be more common than micro atx? :confused:and i dont want a desktop cpu, i want a low cosumption cpu, and a small htpc in general

tsanga

08-31-09, 06:47 PM

isnt mini atx supoosed to be more common than micro atx? :confused:and i dont want a desktop cpu, i want a low cosumption cpu, and a small htpc in general

There are differences between microATX, mini-ITX, and mini ATX. Note the lettering difference.

Wikipedia can be your friend:
ATX form factor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atx)
microATX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroATX)
mini-ITX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX)

These are all desktop platforms, and require desktop processors (Intel or AMD). That doesn't necessarily mean they can't be low power or small.

Perhaps you can (re)read the guide on page 85 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85).

If you're dead set on using a mobile processor, here's one motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153153) that will take a socket P Intel C2D mobile processor.

If after reading all this, it's still as clear as mud, then perhaps building your own PC isn't the right hobby for you. :p

Tijs_Verwest

08-31-09, 07:04 PM

There are differences between microATX, mini-ITX, and mini ATX. Note the lettering difference.

Wikipedia can be your friend:
ATX form factor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atx)
microATX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MicroATX)
mini-ITX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-ITX)

These are all desktop platforms, and require desktop processors (Intel or AMD). That doesn't necessarily mean they can't be low power or small.

Perhaps you can (re)read the guide on page 85 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85).

If you're dead set on using a mobile processor, here's one motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813153153) that will take a socket P Intel C2D mobile processor.

If after reading all this, it's still as clear as mud, then perhaps building your own PC isn't the right hobby for you. :p

Im getting it, and i dont insist on getting a mobile processor , i just thought that was what i was supposed to do :p im gonna read that guide now, thanks ;)

It goes something like this (size), right?:

mini atx >Micro itx > Mini ixt

kevm14

08-31-09, 07:05 PM

This one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128393) (or this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131387)) has one PCIe x16 for your video card, and one PCIe x1 for your tuner. They are next to each other, so beware of the cooler size on the video card. Other than that you're limited to just two RAM DIMMs. So things are pretty tight if you don't need extra room for expansion.

ADD: You may be able to unlock the 4th core in the X3. Someone with more AMD experience can chime in.

Thanks for your help. That Gigabyte board looks like a good pick. Good price and the complaints seemed to center around the on-board graphics which I wouldn't be using anyway.

I used to be a big AMD guy up until I bought my first OEM machine ever, a Dell with an i7, because it was $300 cheaper than building it myself. I was open to building an HTPC with AMD but I don't really care about brands any more. I just want a solid, stable, good performing and quiet system.

On the ram issue, I was gonna do 2 sticks of 2 gigs, which I think will suffice for anything I would ever use the machine for (i.e. very limited gaming or none at all). Do you think 4 is enough?

How do I figure out which 4670 has a low profile enough heatsink? I need it to be quiet but I dunno if I want to shell out for a fanless one. Besides, the one I was looking at had a big heatsink on the back of the card, which would seem to conflict with the PCIe x1 slot.

EDIT: I just realized that since the PCIe x16 slot is in front of the x1 slot that a fan cooled 4670 can have the largest heatsink it wants, since they never have anything on the back to conflict with the x1 slot. The focus is then to find a quiet one.

rogue409

08-31-09, 08:40 PM

Im getting it, and i dont insist on getting a mobile processor , i just thought that was what i was supposed to do :p im gonna read that guide now, thanks ;)

It goes something like this (size), right?:

mini atx >Micro itx > Mini ixt

That is wrong. There are many other form factors for a motherboard, but these 3 are fairly common.

In descending order of size:
ATX
micro ATX
mini-ITX

Hit wikipedia or google if this is still confusing.

tsanga

08-31-09, 08:53 PM

Thanks for your help. That Gigabyte board looks like a good pick. Good price and the complaints seemed to center around the on-board graphics which I wouldn't be using anyway.

I used to be a big AMD guy up until I bought my first OEM machine ever, a Dell with an i7, because it was $300 cheaper than building it myself. I was open to building an HTPC with AMD but I don't really care about brands any more. I just want a solid, stable, good performing and quiet system.

On the ram issue, I was gonna do 2 sticks of 2 gigs, which I think will suffice for anything I would ever use the machine for (i.e. very limited gaming or none at all). Do you think 4 is enough?

How do I figure out which 4670 has a low profile enough heatsink? I need it to be quiet but I dunno if I want to shell out for a fanless one. Besides, the one I was looking at had a big heatsink on the back of the card, which would seem to conflict with the PCIe x1 slot.

EDIT: I just realized that since the PCIe x16 slot is in front of the x1 slot that a fan cooled 4670 can have the largest heatsink it wants, since they never have anything on the back to conflict with the x1 slot. The focus is then to find a quiet one.

Re: Gigabyte board - the only thing to be aware on the Intel chipset is if you have a PCIe video card plugged in, onboard video is disabled. AMD and Nvidia chipsets don't have this limitation (so you can run dual video on separate GPUs).

This card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161288) has a passive heatsink that hangs off the back of the PCIe card.

renethx has recommended this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161287) for being quiet. Plus he had some trouble with drivers earlier with a particular Sapphire model (a software bug, despite having the same chipset).

kevm14

08-31-09, 09:17 PM

The Intel chipset limitation is not a problem. If I needed two displays, and this would certainly be a temporary situation in HTPC land, I'd just use the 4670 for both.

That HIS fanless one is what I was referring to. That won't work. The second one looks promising, and for a good price. It would sacrifice a PCI slot but that's hardly a concern.

I just want to confirm - every 4670 chipset card with a DVI output supports ATI's component video adapter, correct?

Marc_G

08-31-09, 09:35 PM

Hi all,

Currently I have an X2 4850e living on an MA78GPM-DS2H with 2GB RAM, with no discreet GFX card (anymore).

I've played around with it a fair bit and have archived off around 2TB or so of my DVD collection to save the little ones scratching the disks etc and it's all worked out just fine, generally using W7MC without too much trouble at all...

However! I've started to play aroud with HD content and it struggles with .264 / 1080p stuff outputted to my plasma TV at times and I was going to opt for a Saphire Radeon HD4550 until I discovered that I can't ever seem to get the onboard Realtek ALC889a to output sound from AVCHD under Win7 whatever I try.

I've recently set up a new desktop with an Asus P5Q-EM (onboard Realtek ALC1200) and an Intel 6750 that was hanging around and that plays back everything I have just fine - so my question is...

What would people suggest I do to get the HTPC to play back (not encode or anything) all .264, Interlaced and non interlaced 1080 content and dolby true hd playback (I'm happy with dts 192k out as I don't have anything better)?

Due to the prices in the UK right now, I could grab Asus M3N78-EM GeForce 8300 for about +20 than an HD4550... Although I also want keep power consumption to a minimum.

If it's going to be easier, I'd be happier to pass the setup on to my youngest as her first PC and look at ION solution or whatever, so any advice greatly appreciated!

@Stimcity:
I've got my own HTPC based on MA78GPM-UD2H which is similar to yours, running Win7. Note, I use the SPDIF output via TOSLINK to an older receiver so I'm only looking for DD 5.1 / DTS output. I also use a 4550 graphics card and love it in this system.

When I first installed W7 (RC-7100), it installed a generic Microsoft driver for the sound and I couldn't get anything but stereo out of it. The settings for 5.1 surround weren't there. I uninstalled that driver and installed the audio chip driver (ALC889A) that came on the driver disk with the motherboard (vista version). That installed fine and has been working great in surround mode ever since. After rebooting the system, I had the surround option and all has been well since then. I never bothered to go to the REaltek site and get a W7 driver, if available, since the Vista one works fine.

I watch all manner of content from DVD/BluRay/MKV, in h264 and various other encodings, and it all looks great (since I got the 4550 card), and sounds as good as my system is capable of. No true HD or anything... I don't have the ears (or environment) to make it worth it for me.

So, I would suggest that maybe you have the default W7 Microsoft driver going and could replace it with a different version, and that might solve your problem.

Good luck. Report back!

Marc

tsanga

08-31-09, 09:53 PM

On the ram issue, I was gonna do 2 sticks of 2 gigs, which I think will suffice for anything I would ever use the machine for (i.e. very limited gaming or none at all). Do you think 4 is enough?

4GB should be plenty. If limited to 2 DIMMs, perhaps buy once and be done with it. Rene's low/mid range recommended systems all come with 2GB (2x1GB). Especially if you're running x86 OS, which will never see anything higher than 3-4GB. If not running Vista, Win7's RAM requirements are even less demanding.

I just want to confirm - every 4670 chipset card with a DVI output supports ATI's component video adapter, correct?

Actually, I think the component video adapter only applies to older ATI cards. You're talking about this one (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041901&p_id=2398&seq=1&format=2)?

Try these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048+106792627+1067944045+1232814103&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&Subcategory=48&description=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&srchInDesc=) - Diamond and Sapphire have a component adapter cable bundled.

Im getting it, and i dont insist on getting a mobile processor , i just thought that was what i was supposed to do :p im gonna read that guide now, thanks ;)

It goes something like this (size), right?:

mini atx >Micro itx > Mini ixt

Allow me to plagiarize from Wikipedia:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/VIA_Mini-ITX_Form_Factor_Comparison.jpg/800px-VIA_Mini-ITX_Form_Factor_Comparison.jpg

kevm14

08-31-09, 10:03 PM

4GB should be plenty. Rene's low/mid range recommended systems all come with 2GB (2x1GB). Especially if you're running x86 OS, which will never see anything higher than 3-4GB. If not running Vista, Win7's RAM requirements are even less demanding.

I will run Win 7 x64 final. So 4 gigs should be more than enough and in the event I need more down the road I could probably scrap those and get two 4 gig sticks for cheap. But by the time I NEED 8 gigs (might never happen for an HTPC) I suspect this hardware will be too slow anyway.

Actually, I think the component video adapter only applies to older ATI cards. You're talking about this one (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041901&p_id=2398&seq=1&format=2)?

Yup, that one. Seems like you're not familiar then. I wasn't sure if it would work either, but then I read here: http://products.amd.com/en-us/graphiccardresult.aspx?f1=&f2=&f3=&f4=&f5=&f6=&f7=&f8=&f9=0&f10=&f11=&f12=&f13=&f14=1&f15=&f16=0&

4670 (and many others) support component video (usually with an adapter). I recently ordered a Dell i7 machine with Vista Ultimate 64 and a 512MB ATI 4670 and took a chance on this adapter from monoprice. Sure enough it works PERFECTLY. My old Sony HD CRT got a new lease on life. The quality is absolutely top notch. My HTPC setup must duplicate this functionality and I finally realized putting a 4670 in my HTPC would certainly ensure that. I wish they would update that compatibility list, but it's not Monoprice's fault: ATI lists the same on their own FAQ about that adapter. How dumb is that?

EDIT: Although it worked on my Dell I wonder if it's ultimately up to the video card vendor to implement the component video circuitry. That would suck. HIS's 4670 is not on that list, if this is an all-inclusive list. But then lists like this tend not to be.

tsanga

08-31-09, 10:11 PM

4670 (and many others) support component video (usually with an adapter). I recently ordered a Dell i7 machine with Vista Ultimate 64 and a 512MB ATI 4670 and took a chance on this adapter from monoprice. Sure enough it works PERFECTLY. My old Sony HD CRT got a new lease on life. The quality is absolutely top notch. My HTPC setup must duplicate this functionality and I finally realized putting a 4670 in my HTPC would certainly ensure that. I wish they would update that compatibility list, but it's not Monoprice's fault: ATI lists the same on their own FAQ about that adapter. How dumb is that?

Awesome. I've used this adapter on an older ATI card (don't remember which one) but I thought I read on here that not all new cards have the necessary encoder onboard to encode RGB -> YPbPr - perhaps someone could step in and set us straight (*see edit below). Those other 4670 cards I linked (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048+106792627+1067944045+1232814103&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&Manufactory=1569&Manufactory=1419&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045) all have component adapters that plug into the s-video style output.

Reference:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16850385&highlight=component#post16850385
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17025683&highlight=component#post17025683

EDIT:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16442598#post16442598
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1151418&highlight=component

kevm14

08-31-09, 10:53 PM

I read about that mini-DIN thing and the 4670 that came in my dell has dual head DVI plus a mini-DIN in the middle (or it's S-video, I never bothered to count the pins). But I can tell you that the DVI to component adapter you linked on monoprice is working right now. Not sure what to say here. I could contact HIS...

EDIT: On that ATI link I sent I clicked on the Sapphire card that lists as having component output capability. I clicked through to vendors and guess what - that particular card is set up like the HIS. HDMI, VGA, DVI. No mini-DIN. Therefore, to have component compatibility it MUST use the adapter I'm currently using on my Dell-supplied 4670. So that makes two, I suppose. The real question is, does that mean the HIS has it? Do all 4670s with no mini-DIN have it? I feel like I am being punished by keeping my component-only CRT HD TV...geez.

tsanga

08-31-09, 11:00 PM

I'm curious too - if the $6 adapter works, that answers a lot of people's question on here. Plus it really helps my friend out who's trying to keep component video but doesn't want to give up an old ATI card that's already got the DVI dongle hooked up.

kevm14

09-01-09, 10:12 AM

I was reading your post on the smooth Hulu thread. You noted that Hulu desktop runs about 60% cpu in full screen. Does that leave enough for recording 1 or 2 HD shows from ATSC concurrently? I ask because I realized from that thread that you have the E7400 that you recommended to me here. I just want to make sure it's enough. The dell I've been using for media center is an i7 with 6 gigs of DDR3 and literally nothing slows it down that I've seen, so I have no way to know how intensive different things are, because everything is fast :D

Which brings me to another question: is anyone using media center DVR and recording straight into H.264? Is that even supported in DVRMS or WTB formats with full transport capability? If so, with what hardware?

tsanga

09-01-09, 10:19 AM

I can't say for sure since Hulu Desktop on Windows 7 (and I think Vista based on verbal feedback) is basically broken (stuttering video). So it's hard to say definitively whether the PC is multitasking without hiccups. However, I can say that it doesn't take 2 cores at 40% each to record ATSC.

kevm14

09-01-09, 10:53 AM

Hulu Desktop performance on my i7 dell looks as good as I'd expect. That means the video isn't perfectly fluid and there can be tearing. That is Vista Ultimate 64. I have a laptop with a T2500 Core Duo and Win 7 RC1 that seems to run Hulu well actually, over 802.11g even. I will try again with more scrutiny tonight I guess. I do recall trying out my quintessential streaming HD content: Legend of the Seeker. I recall that the laptop was able (with a few CPU cycles to spare) full screen Seeker in 720p via Hulu Desktop with 7MC running in the background.

On my work laptop, before hooking my Dell up to my TV (and before Hulu Desktop) I used a T7500 Core 2 Duo and XP over 802.11g, Hulu had issues, intermittently, until I discovered Chrome, and then it was about as good as my i7 Dell performance. For a while even under Chrome it was very poor performance, and it wasn't a network issue. My only guess, at the time, was Hulu's backend was not experiencing a network bottleneck but processing power. Perhaps they realtime process every client connection and they couldn't keep up with demand even though their network infrastructure could handle the data load. Thoughts? Maybe I should put this in the Hulu thread...

LouInAL

09-01-09, 11:55 AM

Hello, I am new to PC-based TV and adding multimedia to my PC for the first time (I have a SAMSUNG 2343BWX 23" 16:9 LCD Monitor on the way). Not home theater, I just want to be able to watch the news or other TV shows while working on my PC or perhaps a movie now and then when the main TV in in use by someone else.

I was about to order a SiliconDust HDHomeRun because I like the fact that it is LAN-based and can be accessed by a HTPC when I get around to building one in the future, and hopefully can also be used anywhere in the house or on the patio with a wireless-equipped laptop PC. The problem is that I don't know what channels I will be able to access. There is a table on the SiliconDust site (http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/lineup_web/US:36106#lineup_619394) but I can't figure it out. Some of it is obvious (like WAKADT), but how can I tell if I will get, for example, channel 40 (Discovery) or 128 (Military Channel)? I subscribe to Charter Cable in Montgomery Alabama.

The option that I see is to get a second STB and run it to my PC via IEEE-1394, but then I won't be able to change channels from the PC and I assume I won't be able to set up programs to record for the same reason.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Tijs_Verwest

09-01-09, 01:25 PM

Ive got a couple of doubts:

1. What are the latest intel chipsepts for micro atx motherboards?
2.Will a 4770 fit on micro atx case?
3. Any psu will fit on a micro atx case?

kevm14

09-01-09, 01:35 PM

Don't know anything about the latest Intel chipsets without doing the research myself, but I'd like to answer your other questions.

As far as I know the only thing you need to find out is if your chosen case requires half-height cards and if the card you choose comes with a half-height back plate.

For the PSU question, again, it's up to the spec of the case.

The nMedia 1000B that I am probably going with, for example, accepts microATX boards, full height PCI cards and full ATX PSUs, which I find to be a good choice on their part.

tsanga

09-01-09, 04:19 PM

Ive got a couple of doubts:

1. What are the latest intel chipsepts for micro atx motherboards?
2.Will a 4770 fit on micro atx case?
3. Any psu will fit on a micro atx case?

1. For microATX, you have your choice of G31/G33/G35 or G41/G43/G45. Whether you go with 3 or 4 series depends on whether you care about the onboard video capability. If you're using a discrete GPU, perhaps other chipset features will dictate your choice (PCIe 1.x vs 2, ICH rev, max memory support, no. of expansion peripherals supported, etc.). See official Intel comparison (http://compare.intel.com/PCC/showchart.aspx?mmID=34469,36520,36518,29002,29000,30686&familyID=10&culture=en-US).

2. Depends on the case.

3. Also depends on the case. Some cases ship with PSUs so you don't have to buy one. Standard ATX PSUs are more plentiful, but SFX PSUs are smaller (for smaller cases) and may also fit, but are less common.

Marc_G

09-01-09, 04:23 PM

LouInAL

09-01-09, 06:06 PM

Marc_G

09-01-09, 08:20 PM

Thanks for the reply Marc. I have all digital service so that's not a problem but I will be limited to channels under 100 because the higher channels are encrypted and require a cable box. I wish the HDHomeRun would accept a cable card so I could get ALL channels to the PC without a cable box (at least I think that's what cable cards do). If you use a cable box and feed it to the PC via IEEE-1394, is there a way to control the cable box with an IR repeater or something?

I'm sure there's a solution but unfortunately I haven't researched it. I decided when I went the HTPC route to do away with cable TV. I was spending ~$120 / month on cable TV (including digital, HD tier, a couple movie channels). Now I get OTA TV, mostly HD, via the HDHomeRun, so I have local networks and can use the HTPC like a DVR. The rest of the content I'm interested in I mostly get via Netflix (2 out at a time for $18 per month including bluray access and streaming), or on rarer occasions Hulu or some channels' direct websites. Also in theory iTunes, but I haven't bothered with that yet. My wife and I prefer to be able to watch a series straight through rather than wait each week for new episodes...

Good luck. I'm sure someone will post the solution for you, but I think getting cablecard access has actually gotten harder with removal of some of the solutions from the market.

FWIW, I used to use my Sony DHG HDD500 DVR with cable card, and am about to sell it on eBay... it still has a value of at least $500.

Marc

gl1800

09-01-09, 08:54 PM

I'm starting my 1st build so let me start with one question: All things in the build being equal, which CPU fan would be recommended, the Zalman 9500A or the Cooler Master GeminII S? This build will be mostly for movies, but some gaming. I like the look of the copper Zalman, but if it's in a case, who cares about the look. The Zalman looks like it would exhaust the hot air better, since it blows towards the back of the case. However, the Cooler Master seems it would move more air and keep other motherboard components cooler, too. But, it seems it would blow the air up towards the top of the case (desktop style, not tower) and rely the rear exhaust fans to suck the hot air out. Any insight would be appreciated.

kevm14

09-01-09, 09:59 PM

Marc_G

09-02-09, 06:30 AM

What do people think about this case?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163118

I was settled on the nMedia 1000B but this is priced somewhat close ($25 more with shipping) with the rebate and seems to be rated higher. It seems to be taller than the nMedia, which I don't like I guess. On second look I realize it takes full ATX boards. That might just make my life a lot easier as far as board selection.

I've got the 1000b and love it. 4 solid HDD bays, plenty of ventialation, and very easy case to work with. However, plan on buying a quieter case fan. I bought one of these: Scythe KAMA FLEX SA0925FDB12M 92mm Case Fan - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185067

Other than that it's a great case, looks fine, fits my rack...

Marc

eddyE

09-02-09, 09:41 AM

Craigger

09-02-09, 09:47 AM

based on length of the card I believe it will fit, but I am concerned about the 6 pin power connectors being blocked??

if you do have a 4870 in the antec nsk2480 then what card exactly are you using?

Thanks,

Craig

BlueBomber

09-02-09, 09:53 AM

What do people think about this case?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163118

I was settled on the nMedia 1000B but this is priced somewhat close ($25 more with shipping) with the rebate and seems to be rated higher. It seems to be taller than the nMedia, which I don't like I guess. On second look I realize it takes full ATX boards. That might just make my life a lot easier as far as board selection.

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you get the LC17B model?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163055

It's newer (I think), and cheaper after rebate. I am really curious as I'm in the market for a new HTPC case, and think I am settled on the LC17B and want some opinions/suggestions/recommendations.

kevm14

09-02-09, 10:26 AM

@ Marc_G
It's nice to hear that the flexibility of the HTPC enabled you to drop your cable provider and save that monthly bill. Do you now have some dedicated broadband (ISP) service provider that is reasonably priced?

ed

That is exactly what I am doing. I will still pay for Netflix though but a 2 DVD plan plus unlimited instant play costs the same as basic analog cable (some of which I now get in ATSC HD for free). I use COX RI, cable modem. I think it's about $45/mo. My analog expanded cable was $52! If I had to choose, especially today, it's the internet connection, hands down. I hear about people cutting back to slow DSL and I just don't understand it...

kevm14

09-02-09, 10:49 AM

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you get the LC17B model?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163055

It's newer (I think), and cheaper after rebate. I am really curious as I'm in the market for a new HTPC case, and think I am settled on the LC17B and want some opinions/suggestions/recommendations.

Over the LC10? I dunno, I guess the LC10B-E is older but it is rated higher on newegg.

I still think both are too tall though, so I am still leaning toward the nMedia 1000B.

dabl

09-02-09, 01:21 PM

I want to replace an EVGA 640-P2-N821-AR GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB and have a full size Silverstone LC20 case.

Which card would you recommend?

EVGA 512-P3-1150-TR GeForce GTS 250

or

XFX GS-250X-YDFU GeForce GTS 250 512MB

I've seen a claim indicating the EVGA would be quieter which would be important to me if true, though I presumed Rene considered that in his pick.

Marc_G

09-02-09, 01:36 PM

@ Marc_G
It's nice to hear that the flexibility of the HTPC enabled you to drop your cable provider and save that monthly bill. Do you now have some dedicated broadband (ISP) service provider that is reasonably priced?

ed

I get ATT premium DSL 6 mb per second for about $20 per month, down from $47 with cable, though it was about 10 mb per second. My upload is a bit faster now. What I have now is fast enough for what I do.

BlueBomber

09-02-09, 05:56 PM

Stupid question - what is meant in the recommendation section on page 85 when the platform says intel/intel, intel/nvidia, amd/amd etc?

At first I thought it meant CPU/graphics or onboard graphics, but I don't think that's the case...

MomboX

09-02-09, 06:10 PM

My main beef with those two silverstone cases and the nMedia case is the fans. All of those little fans (even though they might offer great airflow) makes so much more noise then a 120mm fan thats going to spin much slower and still move a lot of air.

I dont understand why they dont move to 120's....I have the Antec NSK2480 or whatever I dont much like the look of it cause of the silver front but the inside is designed well everything fits and its quiet as can be because of the 120mm's.

To my question though - I have my TV (sony a3000) and a seperate 22in monitor hooked up to my htpc. My monitor is getting HDCP compliance but it says my TV is not getting compliance what might I be doing wrong? Is two screens a "no no".

The second screen is not a clone it just extends to the side. They are both plugged into the same GPU of course which is a nvidia 8600.

Second question since my TV overscans is it better to change the resolution on the computer through nvidias custom resolution thing. Or is there a way I should do it for better results? Right now my resolution is like 1033 x 1890 or something wierd.

tsanga

09-02-09, 09:27 PM

Stupid question - what is meant in the recommendation section on page 85 when the platform says intel/intel, intel/nvidia, amd/amd etc?

It's CPU/chipset, so Intel/Intel = Intel CPU/Intel chipset.

My main beef with those two silverstone cases and the nMedia case is the fans. All of those little fans (even though they might offer great airflow) makes so much more noise then a 120mm fan thats going to spin much slower and still move a lot of air.

Generally that's true but there are some options for quieter little fans. You can then control their speed/noise via SpeedFan. But your're right bigger fans are generally quieter.

Postmoderndesign

09-03-09, 09:32 AM

I get ATT premium DSL 6 mb per second for about $20 per month, down from $47 with cable, though it was about 10 mb per second. My upload is a bit faster now. What I have now is fast enough for what I do.

I know this is off topic and I apologize.

How did you get ATT premium DSL at 6mb for $20 a month. I am seeing that speed listed in my market for more than twice as much.

Iteki

09-03-09, 11:12 AM

I know this is off topic and I apologize.

How did you get ATT premium DSL at 6mb for $20 a month. I am seeing that speed listed in my market for more than twice as much.

LOL +1 I'm paying $30 for a lower tier. :-)

smockb

09-03-09, 01:44 PM

Hi guys, I have read through the forum and haven’t seen a current listing that would match what I want to do? Could you please provide me with some help on the items below? I would greatly appreciate it and try and give back my feed back to the forum down the road.

Expectations of new home theater system
1. playback of Hd 1080p content, mkv, avi, etc some very large files-15gb +
2. Hulu playback? Or similar streaming video
3. Need to have playback to two hdmi sources (not simultaneously but two outputs)
4. 1 hdmi source will need audio output-
5. Not interested in TV recording –
6. I do not need a small form factor motherboard it will be in a mid tower case-
7. I will work out remote situation later-
8. Very minimal games if any- no over clocking etc
9. More interested in a stable system
10. Intel processors only -
11. Mother boards my local vendor carries- Intel, Asus, gigabyte, Msi
12. operating system vista 64bit

What I need help with is video card / cards? (Best solution for extremely smooth playback)
Motherboard / processor ---mini atx or atx quad processor or i7-920?
Memory amount and type
Mid size case for multiple drives, with sound suppression?
Powers supply size?
I have several new sata drives 500- 1.5 terabyte
I will probably never have more than 4 internal drives (sata) 500gig for system and software –others will be for storage-

Have 600 -700 to spend on above

Marc_G

09-03-09, 03:04 PM

I know this is off topic and I apologize.

How did you get ATT premium DSL at 6mb for $20 a month. I am seeing that speed listed in my market for more than twice as much.

They kept calling me and begging me to switch to them. They gave me $100 plus $50 equip credit plus a phone/DSL bundle for $70 per month. Phone is unlimited including US long distance.

Ran in parallel with cable modem till satisfied DSL was ok.

Check with them about bundles in your area.
Marc

Postmoderndesign

09-03-09, 04:13 PM

They kept calling me and begging me to switch to them. They gave me $100 plus $50 equip credit plus a phone/DSL bundle for $70 per month. Phone is unlimited including US long distance.

Ran in parallel with cable modem till satisfied DSL was ok.

Check with them about bundles in your area.
Marc

Yes, bundle. Thanks for responding. Of course I was hoping you had found the discount window.

Now we will get out of the way of everyone wanting to discuss the thread topic.

Tijs_Verwest

09-04-09, 05:22 PM

topperdude

09-05-09, 02:55 AM

tsanga

09-05-09, 09:54 AM

i thought i wanted to build my system based on micro atx boards but i got to see micro atx live today and imm not so sure anymore, the system will turn out TOO big, i dont want it be bigger than a ps3 or an xbox 360, i have to go with a mini itx board then? what concerns me is that if i go with a mini itx board i have to use just integrated graphics? a card like a hd4770 wont fit on a mini itx case , right?

All i want is something with similar size to the asrock ion but with a core 2 duo processor and a decent video card, is it impossible?

It depends on the case and the video card (look for low profile) as far as what kind of video card will fit.

This motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500022) might be want you want - mini-ITX/LGA 775 with a PCIe x16 slot for a video card.

TombKeeper

09-05-09, 07:33 PM

Page 85 has been updated.... :)

Also, the DH104 case says it's over 18" wide on Thermaltake's website...while reviews state 17" wide.... anyone know which is right?

vurbano

09-06-09, 02:27 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ive held off a long time but finally ordered components for my first HTPC that will reside in my rack replacing my Toshiba HD-A1 HD DVD player and Avel linkplayer2

The HTPC will include:

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ

Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor Model HDX945FBGIBOX

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply

HIS H467PS1GH Radeon HD 4670 iSilence4 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card

Antec Silver Aluminum / Steel Fusion Remote Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

Cooler Master GeminII S Copper Base Aluminum Fins 5 Heatpipes CPU Cooler - (RR-CCH-PBU1-GP)

ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Slim PCI Sound Card Retail

I already own a LG GGW-H20L HDVD/BD reader/burner which I will add to it.

I have PowerDVD9 Ultra (which is useless now that I purchased the Xonar?)
and WinDVD9 (equally worthless if I get TMT?)

AnyDVDHD, CloneCD, CloneDVD2 and Clone Virtual drive

Windows Vista 64 Home Premium

And I take it that Total media theater is indluded with the xonar.

I intend to take it via HDMI to a DENON AVR790 and a 56" sammy HLS-5687W DLP

I like the fact that the video card is silent, and that the motherboard has no fan except for the cooler. Can any of you experts look over this equipment and give me advice? I think I am in for a LOT of work

I plan on playing HD DVD and BD movie discs, as well as ripping my HD DVD's to the HD for playing. I also would like to make copies of my BD movies and perhaps store HD video's on BD or HD from my Tivo HD (hence no ATSC tv tuner in the PC) Gaming would be very light, thats what my PS3 does best.

mayest

09-06-09, 04:15 PM

I like the fact that the video card is silent, and that the motherboard has no fan except for the cooler.
I've got that HIS video card (I'm the only reviewer for it on NewEgg) and it works great. In my system, the highest temp that I've ever seen is about 57C. I think that is well within specs. I do have a case fan that draws air from the front and blows over the video card, so that may help.

vurbano

09-06-09, 04:55 PM

I've got that HIS video card (I'm the only reviewer for it on NewEgg) and it works great. In my system, the highest temp that I've ever seen is about 57C. I think that is well within specs. I do have a case fan that draws air from the front and blows over the video card, so that may help.

Yeah Ive been reading about this stuff and making wishlist after wishlist but kept coming back to that card. Its silent, doesnt require extra power and isnt 2 feets long ;). I would think that more people would want a silent HTPC for watching movies, unless they are just building a gaming rig.

Tijs_Verwest

09-06-09, 08:26 PM

It depends on the case and the video card (look for low profile) as far as what kind of video card will fit.

This motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500022) might be want you want - mini-ITX/LGA 775 with a PCIe x16 slot for a video card.

Thank u that board seems awesome! a little expensive though, im having seconds thoughts about getting a "dedicated" video card now, will it play al the hd files i throw at it? i wont be having trouble with the hd flash videos since the cpu is the one that does all the work

Im searching for other options too, comparing doesnt hurt =) , do i haver to look just for via chipsets? or are there intel chipsets with mini itx form factor? i dont know how to look for motherboards on the manufacterer's sites, they dont separate atx, micro atx, and mini atx i just have to look for sockets and chipsets, any advise?

is the geforce 9400m far superior to the 9300 that includes the board?

-=RedTide=-

09-07-09, 01:28 AM

So, I just got a Diamond XS71 sound card, is it good enough for 7.1 Blu-ray playback?

gpounders

09-07-09, 09:22 AM

tsanga

09-07-09, 09:23 AM

Thank u that board seems awesome! a little expensive though, im having seconds thoughts about getting a "dedicated" video card now, will it play al the hd files i throw at it? i wont be having trouble with the hd flash videos since the cpu is the one that does all the work

Im searching for other options too, comparing doesnt hurt =) , do i haver to look just for via chipsets? or are there intel chipsets with mini itx form factor? i dont know how to look for motherboards on the manufacterer's sites, they dont separate atx, micro atx, and mini atx i just have to look for sockets and chipsets, any advise?

is the geforce 9400m far superior to the 9300 that includes the board?

Not many mini-ITX boards will take a PCIe x16 video card, so you have to decide if onboard video is good enough for you. If yes, you can decide between iGPUs from Intel, AMD and Nvidia on mini-ITX form factor.

The 9400 isn't much different than 9300, only faster clock.

candre23

09-07-09, 10:01 AM

My question is, with the above processor/MB, will it take advantage of the PC2 8500 memory or is that just a waste of money and should I go with regular DDR2 800?Memory bandwidth is never the bottleneck for media playback. While 1066MHz memory will work, it is pretty much a waste. 800MHz RAM is plenty fast enough.

renethx

09-07-09, 10:13 AM

About to order the following

AMD Athlon II X2 250 Regor 3.0GHz Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX250OCGQBOX

GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail

My question is, with the above processor/MB, will it take advantage of the PC2 8500 memory or is that just a waste of money and should I go with regular DDR2 800?

Thanks
You will see very little performance difference in the majority of HTPC tasks (for example, in HD video playback, CPU usage may be only a few percents lower with DDR2-1066 than with DDR2-800). But the price difference is very small. The popular A-DATA DDR2-800 2x2GB kit is $55, while G.SKILL DDR2-1066 2x2GB PK ('Performance King') is $60. So I chose G.SKILL in my recommendations.

dbone1026

09-07-09, 10:26 AM

renethx

09-07-09, 11:19 AM

@ renethx,

Any suggestions on possibly replacing the stock hot swap fans in the Chenbro SR109. Although not terribly loud I wouldn't mind trying to make the system as quiet as possible.

Still haven't completed the build, two of the HDD cages were bad so I returned and am waiting for replacements
Gelid Silent 12 PWM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835426015).
Scythe KAMA PWM Fan 12cm DFS122512L-PWM (http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/020/dfspwm_detail.html).

sarmaee

09-07-09, 01:58 PM

Just read the updated post in page 85 for recommended systems.
I live in Iran and so far that I searched, mobos with 9300/9400 nVidia integrated graphics are not easily at hand here.Nevertheless, there are some with 8200/8300 chips. The Gigabyte 785GM is available as well.Other than the issue with hdmi audio multi channel output in the latter mobo, video and graphic capabilities of which option is superior for 1080p/24 fps playback and effects?

Tijs_Verwest

09-07-09, 06:03 PM

LesMoss

09-07-09, 07:59 PM

ok, i see, but still, is there a way i can search for mini itx motherboards faster? they're sorted by chipsets in most sites which seems stupid , they should separate them first in atx, micro atx, and mini itx

newegg lets you do that

badelbow

09-07-09, 10:49 PM

Thanks for the guide!

renethx

09-07-09, 11:16 PM

candre23

09-07-09, 11:20 PM

renethx

09-07-09, 11:31 PM

Since the 9000 series IGPs will at least do 5.1 audio over HDMI, and Nvidia has better driver support (somewhat for Windows, but especially for Linux), what makes the 4200 a better choice? Performance-wise, I was under the impression that they're pretty much equivalent.
Try to run Cheese Slices (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16695724#post16695724) and W6RZ (http://www.w6rz.net/) "Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips with moving interlaced bar 1920x1080".

tsanga

09-07-09, 11:33 PM

renethx,

Does this mean you've run deinterlacing tests with the HD 4200? Have you posted the results somewhere in the forums?

renethx

09-07-09, 11:37 PM

renethx,

Does this mean you've run deinterlacing tests with the HD 4200? Have you posted the results somewhere in the forums?
Yes. HD 3200/3300/4200 supports MA. I need to update the feature comparison charts on page 85.

tsanga

09-07-09, 11:40 PM

Sweet. Looking forward to seeing if HD 4200 is better than HD 3200 in this respect.

renethx

09-07-09, 11:49 PM

Sweet. Looking forward to seeing if HD 4200 is better than HD 3200 in this respect.
The improvements of HD 4200 over HD 3200 are:

- UVD 2.0 supporting "hardware acceleration" for the secondary HD video streams. (This is not so important, a secondary HD video is very low resolution and does not tax CPU at all.)
- Dynamic contrast.
- Better SD upscaling. (How better may be questionable.)

Tijs_Verwest

09-08-09, 01:31 AM

sarmaee

09-08-09, 01:42 AM

785G is the best "I"GP if you don't care about multichannel LPCM.
Thank you renethx.
I assume that hdmi port apart, I can rely on optical and analog outputs of the integrated audio for that multichannel LPCM. Am I right?
Besides,if in the future I buy a dedicated graphic card (such as 4670 and 9600gt you mentioned in the reference post) can I use the DVI or D-sub port of the card for HD video and HDMI or DVI port for HD audio simultaneously?

renethx

09-08-09, 02:04 AM

Ive made up my mind, what i want for my motherboard is:

-Mini itx form factor
-Wifi
-7.1 support

And the ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E seems to have it all, but does it have bitstreaming via hdmi? and what about the fact that it cannot wake up from usb, can this be fixed in future firmware updates? :mad:

What case for mini itx boards would you recommend? in page 85 they recommend Apex MI-008 and is Apex MI-100BK but im not convinced , they're kinda ugly and seem a little big for my taste , i LOVED the ISK300-65 but suposedly the psu is external is it true? id like to have an internal psu, can i upgrade it?
I am not sure of the current mb revision of the Zotac board.

If you want a Pentium/Core 2 processor (a must for Hulu at full HD), you will need a PSU > 100W. For Atom/ION, one of the following cases should be good:

- Apex MW-100 (http://www.apextechusa.com/products.asp?pID=181)
- Antec ISK 300-65 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129068)
- Mini-Box M350 (http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure)

All of them use an external AC-DC adapter.

renethx

09-08-09, 02:10 AM

Thank you renethx.
I assume that hdmi port apart, I can rely on optical and analog outputs of the integrated audio for that multichannel LPCM. Am I right?
Besides,if in the future I buy a dedicated graphic card (such as 4670 and 9600gt you mentioned in the reference post) can I use the DVI or D-sub port of the card for HD video and HDMI or DVI port for HD audio simultaneously?
Onboard audio supports only S/PDIF (stereo LPCM, lossy DD/DTS) and somewhat crappy multichannel analog.

Yes, you can use one HDMI/DVI port for video (connected to a display) and the other for audio (to a HDMI receiver). 9600 GT does not have a HD audio controller; you must feed S/PDIF audio from the onboard audio. The upcoming (October or later) GeForce cards have it.

sarmaee

09-08-09, 06:26 AM

renethx

09-08-09, 06:34 AM

Comparing suggested systems for low vs mid range profile, I'm wondering when exactly is a cpu cooler necessary? Is it extra vga card related or just a cpu specs related matter of fact? for example if I pick up a GA-MA785G mobo + phenom II x2 550 without discrete graphic card do I need that cooler? What if I try to unlock the cores or overclock the cpu?
Perhaps you'd better use Geminii S for II X2 550, let alone II X3/X4 (quieter and cooling better). Here are actual measurements (using Kill-A-Watt) of the power consumption of a system consisting of

Athlon II X2 240 2.8GHz/Phenom II X2 550 3.1GHz with the stock cooler
GA-MA785GM-US2H
DDR2-800 2 x 2GB
Onboard video
WD Caviar Blue 640GB
Enermax MODU82+
NSK2480 with 2 x 120mm fan
Cool'n'Quiet is on.

CPU|Idle|MKV (HA on)|Prime95
Athlon II X2 240 2.8GHz|55W|64W|118W
Phenom II X2 550 3.1GHz|64W|74W|142W
Phenom II X4 "B50" 3.1GHz|65W|75W|192W

II X4 B50 processor is the one obtained from II X2 550 by unlocking the blocked cores.

sarmaee

09-08-09, 06:56 AM

Where is the "thanks" button renethx?:)

dbone1026

09-08-09, 07:03 AM

Where is the "thanks" button renethx?:)

Its called making a donation :D

tsanga

09-08-09, 08:32 AM

The improvements of HD 4200 over HD 3200 are:

- Dynamic contrast.

Does anybody actually care about this feature? From all the other threads on Radeon HDs, it seems the first thing people do is turn this off (at least anybody who cares to preserve video closest to source). It's become a source of frustration since sometimes turning this off won't stick in CCC. I, for one, don't what any extra processing on my video. Unless I'm misunderstanding what it does.

Tijs_Verwest

09-08-09, 02:02 PM

Not many mini-ITX boards will take a PCIe x16 video card, so you have to decide if onboard video is good enough for you. If yes, you can decide between iGPUs from Intel, AMD and Nvidia on mini-ITX form factor.

The 9400 isn't much different than 9300, only faster clock.

I am not sure of the current mb revision of the Zotac board.

If you want a Pentium/Core 2 processor (a must for Hulu at full HD), you will need a PSU > 100W. For Atom/ION, one of the following cases should be good:

- Apex MW-100 (http://www.apextechusa.com/products.asp?pID=181)
- Antec ISK 300-65 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129068)
- Mini-Box M350 (http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure)

All of them use an external AC-DC adapter.

the thing is i dont want to have any external adapters =/ , and yeah i need to buy a psu, 60-65 w its not enough i want to use a core 2 duo cpu :p

TombKeeper

09-08-09, 04:11 PM

I'm in the process of making a htpc... would going with i5 based system (Gigabyte P55-UD4P, i5 750, GSkill 4gb DDR3 ram - link: http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=43261&promoid=1015 ) be worth it versus going with AM3 (x3 720, 4gb DDR3, Gigabyte MA790GPT-UD3H)? The price difference is $100 canadian more for the i5.

Or would it really be worth waiting for the Clarkdale (? - Intel with built graphics coming in 1st quarter 2010). Don't have a receiver with the BluRay sound formats though and not planning to get one any time soon...

[Using it for watching movies off HD (later on +BluRay movies), some gaming, TV, etc.]

zennui

09-08-09, 05:00 PM

Hi all.

#1 What is the main trade-off between the low-end and mid-range Intel/Intel systems, assuming the following requirements:

* Watch Blu-Ray discs
* Rip and download Blu-Ray discs to HD
* Watch Blu-Ray rips
* Watch standard DVD discs
* Rip and download standard DVD discs to HD
* Watch standard DVD rips
* Record OTA HD TV (using Sage)
* Store and play lossless (Flac) music files
* Use services like Netflix and Hulu full screen and full HD for online video streaming
* No gaming
* No CrossFire
* No RAID

#2 I see that the recommended Hard Drive for the OS is always the Caviar Blue. I have several Caviar Greens lying around, and was hoping to partition one of these for the OS Hard Drive. Thoughts? Will the performance gain of the Blue be noticeable over the Green?

Thanks in advance.
Chris

renethx

09-08-09, 10:02 PM

renethx

09-08-09, 10:07 PM

Hi all.

#1 What is the main trade-off between the low-end and mid-range Intel/Intel systems, assuming the following requirements:

#2 I see that the recommended Hard Drive for the OS is always the Caviar Blue. I have several Caviar Greens lying around, and was hoping to partition one of these for the OS Hard Drive. Thoughts? Will the performance gain of the Blue be noticeable over the Green?

Thanks in advance.
Chris
The graphics is overall better in the midrange system. You can use Caviar Green for OS with no problem. Blue is faster in benchmarks and you may (or may not) feel difference though.

Rocka2

09-09-09, 01:06 AM

I love this guide.

zennui

09-09-09, 03:16 AM

The graphics is overall better in the midrange system. You can use Caviar Green for OS with no problem. Blue is faster in benchmarks and you may (or may not) feel difference though.

Thanks for the response.

Based on your comment, is there a reason not to simply include the midrange video card in the low-end system? Is the low-end system not able to take advantage of it?

renethx

09-09-09, 04:40 AM

Thanks for the response.

Based on your comment, is there a reason not to simply include the midrange video card in the low-end system? Is the low-end system not able to take advantage of it?
Yup, you can add HD 4670 to the low-end system.

TroubleMan

09-09-09, 02:23 PM

So is there a way to get HDMI directly to a TV, or do you need a receiver?

renethx

09-09-09, 04:07 PM

So is there a way to get HDMI directly to a TV, or do you need a receiver?
Connect an HDMI out (or DVI with an adapter) of the graphic card to an HDMI in of your TV? :confused:

gfortune1981

09-09-09, 08:33 PM

To clarify, do you need to connect HDMI video from the HTPC directly to the HD TV?

Or can you connect the HDMI from the HTPC through a receiver to the HD TV for both sound and video?

renethx

09-09-09, 09:01 PM

can you connect the HDMI from the HTPC through a receiver to the HD TV for both sound and video?
Yes, of course.

TroubleMan

09-09-09, 09:08 PM

Connect an HDMI out (or DVI with an adapter) of the graphic card to an HDMI in of your TV? :confused:I'm sorry, I have no idea how HDMI works, never used it before; I was just wondering if it was like everything else I've used where I just hook the cable directly from the PC to the television.

Tijs_Verwest

09-09-09, 10:20 PM

my system is finally shaping up =) but i still need some help ... its looking like this:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8200 Dual-Core Processor, 2.66 GHz, 6M L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB, LGA775 $138.59 OR Core 2 Duo E7500 Processor 120 $ 119.99 which is better choice? i was thinkin on getting something with lower frequency and cheaper, like 2.0 ghz or 2..2 ghz but these 2 models seem to be the low end for the core 2 duo series =/

CPU Cooler?? do i really need one?

Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX, $140 OR GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM- 130 $ i love the zotac but it cannot be woken up via usb and the gigabyte has no wifi

Memory: Is it worth to buy 4 gb instead of 2 gb if im not gonna play games? will i see a difference? i was planing on getting this...

Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT25664AA80A $57.99

Graphics Card: GeForce 9300 (integrated in the chipset), $0.

HDD: Western Digital , is it noticeable the difference between the black, blue and green models? i think im gonna go with the green one to reduce power comsuption, 80 $

PSU: Flex ATX 150W, Active PFC , included in the case

Case: Cooler Master Elite 100 (RC-100) 70 $ is it true that this case has heat/bad airflow problems?? i wanted the antec ISK 300-65 instead sooo bad but it has a psu of just 65 w and it's external =(

Remote: Logitech Harmony 510 Advanced Universal Remote Control
$61.17

Total Cost: $730

i was planning to spend 650 $ =/ ... any suggestions would be greatly appreciated ;)

Eopian

09-10-09, 05:30 AM

#2 I see that the recommended Hard Drive for the OS is always the Caviar Blue. I have several Caviar Greens lying around, and was hoping to partition one of these for the OS Hard Drive. Thoughts? Will the performance gain of the Blue be noticeable over the Green?

I use a 5400rpm 2.5" laptop hard drive in my client computer and I'm more than happy with it. I notice it takes a hair longer to boot than when I had a 7200rpm desktop drive in there. The 5400rpm drive is worlds quieter and once the computer is booted I notice no difference between the drives.

btordini

09-10-09, 08:14 AM

Thanks renethx for publishing the i5 option so fast !!

jimgable

09-10-09, 11:50 AM

Have you used the new Loop pointer as an input device?

epiekarc

09-10-09, 09:13 PM

I have just completed my build of the "Workstation" with a couple points of feed back and some of my adjustments. Here is what I ended up buying (or already owned):

CPU: Core i7 920
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek Dark Knight-S1283V
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EX58-UD5 LGA1366 Intel X58 chipset ATX
Memory: G.SKILL F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ DDR3-1600 3 x 2GB Kit
Graphics Card: HIS H485Q1GH Radeon HD 4850 GDDR3 1GB
Sound: ASUS HDAV 1.3
HBA: Adaptec RAID 9650SE-12ML
HDD for OS: Western Digital 150 GB VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS
HDD for Storage: 11- Western Digital 2 TB Caviar WD20EADS
PSU: Seasonic M12D
Case: Cooler Master CMStacker
HDD Cage: 3 Supermicro Mobile Rack CSE-M35T-1B
Optical Drives: LG GGW-H20L and LG GH22NS30
OS: Vista x64 Ultimate
Software: AnyDVD, TotalMedia Theatre 3, PS3 Media Server, ImgBurn, MagicISO, Symantec Endpoint Protection, Acronis and Office 2007.

I am very happy with everything, expect the motherboard. I overclocked the CPU to 4Ghz, it's very stable, and now the system board runs a little warmer than I would like, about 47 C at idle. This could have been easily solved by getting the GA-EX58-Extreme board for about $20 more. Now I'll need to look into cooling. By the way the CPU runs about 42 C under full load, which is very exceptable.

I have the HDMI hooked up to my Denon 4308ci reciever and I am able to get HD audio to it.

I am still looking for a little help with a couple items:

Remote: I've looked and looked for a remote control input but I can't find anything that would support RF from my URC MX-900. If IR is all I can use, any recommendations? I do have the base station for my remote so I could run a IR emitter over to the computer.
Software Help: I cannot figure out how to get a BD copied to my HDD and then play it from WMC. I have the TotalMedia Theatre (TMT) plugin working with WMC. What's the best way to get BD copied to HDD for full HD playback to DTS-HD, etc.? I have successfully been able to copy a file via AnyDVD ripping and then adding that file to TMT. I was then able to play it. I'd really like to be able to have a list of all movies and be able to choose the one to install.

Thanks for all the help. Once I get this all working I definitally plan on supporting the forum, thanks for all the work.

saxnix

09-10-09, 10:33 PM

I'd really like to be able to have a list of all movies and be able to choose the one to install.

Try OML (http://code.google.com/p/open-media-library/wiki/Wiki).

Marc_G

09-11-09, 06:23 AM

I have just completed my build of the "Workstation" ...
(snip)
Software Help: I cannot figure out how to get a BD copied to my HDD and then play it from WMC. I have the TotalMedia Theatre (TMT) plugin working with WMC. What's the best way to get BD copied to HDD for full HD playback to DTS-HD, etc.? I have successfully been able to copy a file via AnyDVD ripping and then adding that file to TMT. I was then able to play it. I'd really like to be able to have a list of all movies and be able to choose the one to install.

I use MediaBrowser (http://www.mediabrowser.tv). At that link you will find the software (free for now), and links to a support forum and wiki. You'll find out how to set up Virtual Clone Drive (free from Elby/Slysoft) to mount an iso of a ripped BD and play it from within a nice interface. Good luck.

Marc

Iteki

09-11-09, 10:55 AM

For those looking for a cheap htpc for a kid's room or game room, there's one on Woot! for $289 refurbished (no monitor)

1 Gateway DX4200-09 1.8GHz Quad-Core 4GB DDR2 640GB SATA HDMI Vista Home Premium (http://www.woot.com/)

Warranty: 90 Day Gateway

Features:

* AMD Phenom X4 9100e 64-bit Quad-Core Processor (1.80GHz, 2MB L2 Cache) with AMD64 Technology
* 4096MB 800MHz Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM (2-2048MB modules), expandable up to 8GB
* Integrated ATI® Radeon™ HD 3200 Hybrid Graphics with up to 256MB of Shared Video Memory
* AMD 780G Chipset
* 1 HDMI and 1 VGA video port
* 640GB 7200rpm Serial ATA II/300 hard drive with 16MB Cache
* 18X DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti Drive featuring Labelflash™ Technology
* 6 USB 2.0 ports (2 Front, 4 Rear)
* 2 IEEE 1394a Ports(1 Front, 1 Rear)
* 2 PS2 Ports
* 1 - PCI-E x16, 1 - PCI-Ex1 and 1 - PCI Available Expansion Slots
* Gateway® 15-in-1 media card reader with copy button
* 8-Channel (7.1) High Definition Audio
* 300W Power Supply
* 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 port)
* 56k ITU v.92 Ready Fax/Modem (RJ-11 port)
* Premium Multimedia Keyboard
* 2-Button USB Optical Wheel Mouse
* Amplified USB Powered Stereo Speakers
* Dimensions (H x W x D): 16.34” x 7.09” x 17.32” (415mm x 180mm x 440mm)
* Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium (64-bit) with SP1

Additional Photos:

* Gateway DX4200-09 Desktop PC
* USB Mouse
* Keyboard
* Speakers
* Rear Ports
* Rear View
* Side View with Panel Removed
* Front Panel with Media Card Reader, USB, Firewire, Microphone, and Headphone Ports

In the box:

* Gateway DX4200-09 Desktop PC
* Keyboard
* Mouse
* Speakers
* Power Cable

sebberry

09-11-09, 02:40 PM

Remote: Logitech Harmony 510 Advanced Universal Remote Control
$61.17

:o Where are you getting that for that price?

A_Dude

09-11-09, 02:49 PM

Renethx:

I built an HT-PC 2.5 years ago, using this thread (and its predecessor) as a starting point, and it has been very stable and trouble free. It was AMD/AMD using a Gigabyte 690g board. The NSK2480 has been particularly good for an HT-PC.

I now need another one for another room, and I have been surprised how little has changed. The NSK2480 still seems to be the best product, although I am going to try out the M Fusion Remote 350 that uses the same SilentPCReview-inspired design as the NSK2480. The current AMD dual cores are a little faster for the $$, but not drastically so, and the Gigabyte still seems to be the best reliability and features per dollar, this time with the 785g chipset.

A question for renethx and two tips for readers:

Q: You list the G-Skill memory with that board, but the A-Data with other similar boards. The A-data seems to match the board specs better than the G-skill, they have been trouble-free in my previous HT-PC, and have better user comments (especially recently) than the G-skill, so I went with the A-data. So, my question is - how closely are the memory recommendations tied to the specific motherboards, or are you just trying to spread around the recommendations amongst various equally regarded memory products?

Tip 1: While the use of 16mb cache rather than 32mb cache would seem to make a SATA hard drive lower performance, nevertheless reviews of the Hitachi 1TB internal SATA Drive OA38016 (by IIRC Tom's Hardware) indicate that the drive has Hitachi's usual combination of performance, reliability and strange lack of marketing and promotion. ;) I have four of them in various PCs in my household and they all run not only reliably, but more quietly and cool than any previous drive I have used. Other users have had similar experiences. At $80, it seems the best value at the moment.

Tip 2 - For those who archive and backup to hard drives that are then stored, the Thermaltake BlacX is a very useful product. Once I bought one, I immediately stopped using more expensive external drives. The Blacx is the guts of an external enclosure with a dock designed to handle internal SATA drives that can be inserted or removed in one second. There is a USB 2.0 version and another that supports both USB and Esata.

PS Thanks to everyone who helps support this thread, especially renethx.

renethx

09-11-09, 03:54 PM

A question for renethx and two tips for readers:

Q: You list the G-Skill memory with that board, but the A-Data with other similar boards. The A-data seems to match the board specs better than the G-skill, they have been trouble-free in my previous HT-PC, and have better user comments (especially recently) than the G-skill, so I went with the A-data. So, my question is - how closely are the memory recommendations tied to the specific motherboards, or are you just trying to spread around the recommendations amongst various equally regarded memory products?[/I]
Well, G.SKILL DDR2-1066 works fine with the systems I mentioned on page 85. DDR2-1066 is the highest clock that the AMD processor supports and you may see a little performance increase (for example, you may see CPU usage drop by a few percents in HD video playback). Price difference is also very small ($3 and $8 for 2GB and 4GB kit respectively). So I chose DDR2-1066. (In case of a trouble, you can always run it at 800MHz [i.e. as DDR2-800] stably.)

dbone1026

09-11-09, 05:05 PM

So far my build with the Chenbro case/hdd cages per page 85 (media servers) has been less then positive. I ordered 3 of the chenbro hdd cages. One cage went in without an issue. When I try to install the other two cages an alarm sounds. I tried multiple combinations, even uninstalled the working cage and tried one of the non working cages with the same exact connections, no luck. I called Chenrbo technical support who said it sounded like the two cages had a bad dip switch, which is used if you attached a fan to the cage. I returned the two defective cages last week and just received replacement cages today. I just attempted to install and once again, once I connect them to the PSU the alarm sounds off (so basically I ordered 5 cages and 4 of them have not worked). I called tech support again and am just waiting for them to call back. I am extremely frustrated at this point, especially given the $$$ I spent on the Chenbro Case/HDDs. If the tech support calls me back and cannot solve the problem I will be returning the case and cages and better get a full refund. I will report back when I hear from tech, but until then I would recommend that no one goes near the Chenbro recommendation...

bwarn

09-12-09, 09:30 PM

Hello all, I'm new to this HTPC (this being my first go setup).

Recently purchased the following:
Athlon II X2 250 (currently using stock cooler)
GA-MA785GM-US2H
DDR2-1060 2 x 2GB
Currently using Onboard video
Lian-Li PC37B (low profile case)
Display: Sony LCD TV (1080p resloution)
HDMI -> TV, S/PDIF -> Receiver

Install and setup went smooth and all seems to work.

However, I'm having less than desirable video playback from on-line video streams and dvd playback (with LG BD player and PowerDVD 7.3, but only regular DVD played so far). Online video playback will stutter and freeze at times when playing full screen and DVD playback just isn't quite right.

I previously had a cheap laptop (1.8Ghz Athlon X2) connected to tv while testing and loking into the HTPC concept and had very little video playback issues (at least seams better than what this system is currently doing). Probably just setup/settings related issues, and I still have a lot of reading to understand the CCC (and PowerDVD) settings but that's going to take some time going thru the many threads available on this site (and others).

However, I'm wondering if a discrete video card might be the quick answer, as I understand IGP performance is still lower than many discrete GPU's.

Also, I realize I've barely touched the available information in the various threads... but I'm starting to get a little confused on what discrete video card is already 'comparable' with the onboard 4200 and then what would be the next steps up from that. It seams the higher the chip number does not exactly equate to better performance (at least for HTPC use), ie 4650 is not neccasarily better than 4550 and all and is based on differnt factors: memory type, manufacture, driver, and then the fan noise, etc.

I believe the 4670 might be the current recommendations, but is not available in a low profile design... and then I see mixed comments and info on 4350, 4550, and 4650's etc.

So any recommendation, thoughts, or points to other threads would be greatly appreciated.

renethx

09-13-09, 12:05 AM

4550 is the best low-profile card, better than any IGP.

gpounders

09-13-09, 12:15 AM

personalt

09-13-09, 12:15 AM

Currently I run system with 3 drives. A small drive with my OS and a 1.5 TB drive with some DVD rips and a second 1.5 TB to hold my ghost backup of OS partiation and copies of my dvds moved nightly via syncback SE

I really want a rack case to clean up my setup but the RPC-4220 is a little out of my league price wise plus I just dont need support for that many drives.

I was looking at the RPC-470 or RPC-450 but see almost no threads that include these two. Is there another rack case that others recommend if I dont need the RPC-4220

gl1800

09-13-09, 02:59 PM

Ok, this was my 1st ever attempt to build any PC (it's easier to buy a PC), but I wanted a custom HTPC. Thanks to this guide, and a lot of research, I finally built one:

Intel i5-750 (bleeding edge)
Stock Intel CPU fan and heatsink
Gigabyte P55-UDP4P motherboard
G.Skill Ripjaw 2x2GB (wanted a cheaper set, but they weren't in stock)
Enermax PS
Avermedia Duet
HIS 4850 512MB
WD 1TB drive for videos
WD 250 GB boot drive (this is an older 7200 RPM I had laying around)
Zalman HD160 Plus case (black)
Antec 3 speed 92mm case fan for drive cage
Win 7 Pro (RTM)
Media Browser
Meta<Browser>
VirtualCloneDrive

Thoughts:
-The stock fan is loud when it gets reved up. Will replace with a quieter one later.
-I will buy a new boot drive later, too, because the one I'm using is not as quiet as it should be.
-I was using Daemon Tools Lite to mount the ISOs, and while it worked fine on my test PC running Win 7, it was too slow to mount on this new build. Media Center would error and say it couldn't find the video, but a few seconds later, Daemon Tools would mount it and it would begin playing. I changed to VirtualCloneDrive and it works like a champ
-The HD160 Plus case is a nice case. However, I was surprised that it didn't have a simple latch or thumb screw to remove the top. Instead, you have 6 screws you have to remove to get the top off. Also, the top does not fit real tight at the front, so it needs to have something put under it to tighten it up or, under the right circumstances, it can vibrate. I was also surprised that you must remove the drive bays to install drives. Drives are held in by screws and you can't get to the side of the drive cage next to the side of the case unless you remove the cage. Easy to do, but I'm use to Dell and HP PCs where the drives snap in. I don't know how useful the iMon stuff is, either.
-The HIS 4850 had a slight whine to it until it had been operating a few hours. Now, it is quiet.
-IDE DVD drive is slow. I'm not sure why, but perhaps the new board for the i5 CPUs isn't optimized for IDE stuff. I plan on buying a SATA DVD drive later (Christmas is going to be nice:) )
-My Sony AV receiver is too old for HDMI, so I have the HIS 4850 connected to my Samsung 5271 via HDMI and have audio hooked up to the Sony via optical.
-The Avermedia Duet pulled in all local channels from my non-amplified rabbit ears, including a couple I didn't know existed.
-Media Browser is great. Remember, though, you must install the older version before the newer beta.
-Meta<Browser> works good, too. I have found some background jpgs that AVG virus scanner reports as having embedded viruses. So, beware.

All-in-all, this has been a fun task.

H8nXTC

09-13-09, 03:01 PM

Thanks renethx for publishing the i5 option so fast !!

Are you referring to the i5 thread or do you have another link?

renethx

09-13-09, 03:25 PM

Are you referring to the i5 thread or do you have another link?
Check the updated recommendations on page 85 and the new section P55 Chipset Motherboards (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1172451#P55%20Chipset%20Motherboards) in the Core i7/i5/i3 thread.

renethx

09-13-09, 03:54 PM

Athlon II X4 620 2.6GHz, 95W (no L3 cache) was released, ~$110. It looks like there are two versions:

- Deneb core (Phenom II X4) with L3 cache disabled.
- Propus core (the original Athlon II X4).

dbone1026

09-13-09, 04:15 PM

@ Renethx,

Do you know if the Athena Power BP-SATA3051B 5-in-3 backplane is compatible with the Chrenbro SR109. I am going to call Chenbro tech support again tomorrow, but there is only so many times I can have them keep sending me bad hdd cages before I need to come up with an alternative

A_Dude

09-13-09, 04:18 PM

I just built a new system and I'm have a problem with it freezing up.

MA785GM-US2H
4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Retail
Windows 7
Raidmax case with 380w power supply

The system started to freeze after change the BOIS setting to boost the DRAM voltage to 2.1V and changed the clock to 533 in order to get the full spped from the memory.

What could be causing this problem? Am I missing some configuration? or could it be the power supply is not good enough?

The motherboard's recommended DRAM voltage is 1.8 volts.

I remember with previous Gigabyte AMD processor and AMD chipset matx boards, that it would only run stably with 1.8 volt memory (which is one reason that I questioned the F2-8500CLSD-4GBPK recommendation for that board, although I have no specific experience with this chipset yet, so cannot provide anything more than the above points).

Tijs_Verwest

09-13-09, 10:34 PM

boydn1

09-13-09, 10:57 PM

I just built a system loosely on the ATX mid. Using HIS 4670 (drivers from CD). Hooked up to TV with HDMI everything is fine (video/sound). When I run it through my Marantz SR8002 (HDMI 1.3 compliant) I get no video. OS is Vista 64 if it matters.
Any ideas or a better place to ask?
Thanks

tsanga

09-14-09, 12:25 AM

can anyone comment on this? im dying to buy the parts already :(

Looking at the pictures, I'm not sure how anybody would be able to get a uATX mobo in that Cooler Master Elite 100.

Also, options for components (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6623) are very limited:
Device Space
With Micro ATX board: Slim ODD x 1 , 2.5” HDD x 2
With Mini ITX board: Slim ODD x 1 , 2.5” HDD x 1 , 3.5” HDD x 1
With Mini ITX board: Slim ODD x 1 , 2.5” HDD x 3

Tijs_Verwest

09-14-09, 12:40 PM

Looking at the pictures, I'm not sure how anybody would be able to get a uATX mobo in that Cooler Master Elite 100.

Also, options for components (http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6623) are very limited:

so, should i discard the case? , building an htpc is trickier than regular pc :o

tsanga

09-14-09, 02:18 PM

so, should i discard the case? , building an htpc is trickier than regular pc :o

Depends on your needs. If you decide on mini-ITX with slim optical drive, then it'll work. There's no room for expansion cards (e.g. a discrete video or sound card). Otherwise, pick something else.

gpounders

09-14-09, 11:21 PM

What is the recommended burn-in software that will tax the system resources for burn-in after a new build? I tried memtest but it keeps crashing. Maybe that is a sign I have a problem?

sschen

09-15-09, 07:18 AM

What is the recommended burn-in software that will tax the system resources for burn-in after a new build? I tried memtest but it keeps crashing. Maybe that is a sign I have a problem?

Prime95 is very useful for stress testing

nalooti

09-15-09, 12:29 PM

Hi renethx, all

This is the first time I want to build an HTPC and needless to say finding your post was very valuable in my research.

I know you're doing a very time consuming job but is it possible to rethink altogether the criteria of a high end HTPC system, or at least answer some of my questions in that regard (I have a lot of questions in my head that I don't even know where to begin!).

All your examples of high end systems are out of scope of a HTPC system in my viewpoint because it doesn't respect the first rule which is a quiet and relatively small system. When you propose a quadcore or more powerfull processor, do you agree that such system would be too noisy for a living room? Maybe I missed something that make them really quiet...

Anyway, I say this because I'm looking for a high end HTPC in a sense that it still is quiet, which means I'm not going to get more than 65W processor, but at the same time, I'd like to choose other premium components that I only find on your high end configurations.
For example I'd like to have:
SSD drive for the OS
a top HDTV tuner card with HMDI supporting audio
the most powerful *fanless* graphics card (if the HDTV tuner card can't provide it) with HMDI supporting audio
The best silent (and reliable) 5400 rpm HDD whether 2.5" or 3.5"
A fast 802.11n chip

As you see, it is as if I list all the best components, then remove every component that gets too hot and require heavy cooling and replace them with the next available powerful components compromising on the power to satisfy my first conditions (cool&quiet).

Problem is that I don't know if I can mix your suggestions. That's the reason I really wish you create another category labeled for example "most-quiet-high-end". If you can't, let me please ask you few questions one by one:

1/ Is there a mATX motherboard supporting 3 SATA (1 for SSD/OS and 2 for data)

2/ Is an Intel 65W processor (core2duo) enough for playing blu-ray and HDTV in normal load (i.e. without having to spin fast the fan), given that a fanless TvTuner/Graphics card is working

3/ Is an on-board compression chip necessary on the graphics/TvTuner card ? why? I mean the TV signal out of a digital tuner is already digital and compressed and don't need to be compressed before writing on disks for PVR function. Is this compression chip only needed for analog signals ?

4/ Again on compression: all the boards support Mpeg2 compression, why not Mpeg4 ?

5/ A very important one for me: Is a 5400rpm HDD able to do the job for playing and/or recording HD contents ?
I never saw any 5400rpm HDD recommendation from you but these disks consume much less power so they stay cool. I had a discussion on silentpcreview.com whether to chose a 2.5" one or a 3.5" one. They aren't that much 3.5" HDD models spinning at 5400rpm. What's your recommendations.

Thanks very much to having read all this and in advance for your answers.
nalooti

tsanga

09-15-09, 12:55 PM

1/ Is there a mATX motherboard supporting 3 SATA (1 for SSD/OS and 2 for data)

2/ Is an Intel 65W processor (core2duo) enough for playing blu-ray and HDTV in normal load (i.e. without having to spin fast the fan), given that a fanless TvTuner/Graphics card is working

3/ Is an on-board compression chip necessary on the graphics/TvTuner card ? why? I mean the TV signal out of a digital tuner is already digital and compressed and don't need to be compressed before writing on disks for PVR function. Is this compression chip only needed for analog signals ?

4/ Again on compression: all the boards support Mpeg2 compression, why not Mpeg4 ?

5/ A very important one for me: Is a 5400rpm HDD able to do the job for playing and/or recording HD contents ?
I never saw any 5400rpm HDD recommendation from you but these disks consume much less power so they stay cool. I had a discussion on silentpcreview.com whether to chose a 2.5" one or a 3.5" one. They aren't that much 3.5" HDD models spinning at 5400rpm. What's your recommendations.

Thanks very much to having read all this and in advance for your answers.
nalooti

1. The number of SATA ports are a function of the chipset and the motherboard implementation. Plenty of mobos (if not all modern boards) have at least 3 SATA (including all of renethx's recommendations, if I'm not mistaken). Easy enough to do a search in Newegg.

2. Many forum members choose to use a passive heatsink for a fanless approach (using Scythe Ninja Mini as an example). The stock Intel fan is very quiet, virtually silent. The CPU does very little work during BD playback so the fan is spinning very slowly. The aftermarket HSF in his recommendation is also near silent (as are his case recommendations).

3. If you're not encoding analog video, hardware compression of video is not necessary.

4. Are you referring to encoding or decoding? The current crop of GPUs support decoding of mpeg2 and mpeg4 (AVC/H.264 is a subset of mpeg4).

5. I have never equated 2.5" mobile/notebook drives with reliability. Especially 5400RPM notebook drives which perform like dogs. But if you want low power 3.5" drives, there are plenty of options (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/2tb-hdd-energy,2371.html) with adequate performance.

renethx is doing us all a favor so please refrain from criticizing his recommendations on your first post.

renethx

09-15-09, 01:07 PM

nalooti

It looks like you are looking for the best mid-range system (check my criteria of a mid-range system/high-end system). I recommend you to start with the microATX mid-range Intel/Intel or AMD/AMD system on page 85.

- Use Scythe Ninja Mini Rev. B SCMNJ-1100 for E7500 passive cooling. Use Geminii S for Phenom II X3.
- Graphics card: HIS H467PS1GH (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161288) is the best fanless card for video playback. You can't use an internal TV tuner PCI Express card then. (Use HDHomeRun [digital only] or a USB tuner.)
- SSD for OS: Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 or OCZ OCZSSD2-1VTX60G. You can place it, for example, above the optical drive.
- HDD for media storage (1TB or 1.5TB, 5400 rpm [this is fast enough]): check the Media Storage Server section (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#Media%20Storage%20Sever). Antec Fusion Remote supports two HDDs (up to 3TB).
- Wireless LAN adapter: ENCORE ENLWI-N 802.11n Wireless PCI Adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833180052) (you can't use Xonar HDAV1.3 Slim, then) or ENCORE ENUWI-N 802.11n Wireless USB Adapter (http://encore-usa.com/product_item.php?region=us&bid=2&pgid=19&pid=277). (If you choose an ATX system, you will have plenty of expansion slots.)
- Compression is necessary only for analog. No H.264: I am not sure why. Perhaps there is no good hardware encoder?

tsanga

09-15-09, 02:00 PM

Antec Fusion Remote supports two HDDs (up to 3TB).

Two HDDs can be up to 4TBs now. :)

nalooti

09-15-09, 03:35 PM

Thanks very much renethx for your precise answers.

- Graphics card: ... is the best fanless card for video playback. You can't use an internal TV tuner PCI Express card then. (Use HDHomeRun [digital only] or a USB tuner.)

Is a USB tuner as good as a PCI Express card ?
Is it worth to take a less powerful graphics card in order to have a PCI Express card tuner ? I don't do games that much.

Also do you think a passive cooling for the processor is reliable ? A reviewer at the overclocking.com said that it may be too risky but maybe not for 65W CPU?
Can I install a 120mm fan on top of the CPU ?

- Wireless LAN adapter: ... (you can't use Xonar HDAV1.3 Slim, then) or ...ENCORE ENUWI-N 802.11n Wireless USB Adapter. (If you choose an ATX system, you will have plenty of expansion slots.)

what is Xonar HDAV1.3 Slim ?
Maybe the best solution for the 802.11n would be to connect the HTPC via Ethernet to a wireless router anyway ? I have a USB 802.11n adapter on my NMT (Popcorn Hour) that is not fantastic. It can't stream at 10Mbps!

Again a thousand thanks for your work
nalooti

TroubleMan

09-15-09, 08:49 PM

can anyone comment on this? im dying to buy the parts already :(I plan on building my HTPC in October or November (probably the latter), if I were you I would wait until Zotac releases revision 4 of their 9300 ITX board, the Zotac GF9300-G-E. It will have the Wake on USB feature, 2 DVI outputs, and 3 internal SATA connections.

Tijs_Verwest

09-15-09, 10:21 PM

I changed my mind now i want to buy:

CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 245 Regor 2.9GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache Socket AM3 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail 66 $

Case: SILVERSTONE Sugo SG05-B Black SECC 100 $ i LOVE it but wont fit a micro atx board =( , can u recommend something similar but not much bigger, i want a small case , i was planning on getting the Apex MI-100BK Mini-ITX, $48. but it seems build with too much plastic and too many leds , can they be disabled? and i liked the SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF Black ABS 70 $ but it seems TOO big

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD
DDR3 1800+ (OC), HD4200 DirectX10.1 & 2 90 $ , but it's micro atx and a micro atx board wont fit on the case i want, right? T.T isnt there a board similar to this one but mini itx? with 8 channel audio, a good integrated graphic card , etc

gpounders

09-15-09, 11:33 PM

The motherboard's recommended DRAM voltage is 1.8 volts.

I remember with previous Gigabyte AMD processor and AMD chipset matx boards, that it would only run stably with 1.8 volt memory (which is one reason that I questioned the F2-8500CLSD-4GBPK recommendation for that board, although I have no specific experience with this chipset yet, so cannot provide anything more than the above points).

So can anyone else tell me what settings they are using with this motherboard and memory combination? I went with this combination with hope to avoid problems since it's part of the recommended list. If you are using the combo, what voltage and any other settings make it most stable? I swapped out the PSU and don't think I have had any problems since.

A_Dude

09-15-09, 11:57 PM

So can anyone else tell me what settings they are using with this motherboard and memory combination? I went with this combination with hope to avoid problems since it's part of the recommended list. If you are using the combo, what voltage and any other settings make it most stable? I swapped out the PSU and don't think I have had any problems since.

I am currently still part way through building an HTPC with this board, so I cannot give any specific response yet, but I think you said it started to freeze after changing the BIOS settings, so perhaps the default BIOS settings are the most stable ones.

If you go to newegg.com, there are over 1,000 comments on that RAM, a lot of them having to do with the RAM not actually running at the specs. Anyway, those comments may have more specifics, and you can also check the motherboard comments (although they are far fewer due to the board being more recent).

renethx

09-16-09, 12:12 AM

nalooti

HD 4670 is the minimum. I recommend you to stick to my recommendation (all active cooling: no worry about overheating, near silent). Then you can use a PCI Express TV tuner.

Wireless LAN (USB or PCI) may not be reliable. Wired connection is the way to go.

renethx

09-16-09, 12:23 AM

So can anyone else tell me what settings they are using with this motherboard and memory combination?
In my case all are set to auto (except clock) and my system has been stable. So stability may depends on each individual module. If DDR2-1066 works, use it; otherwise use it as DDR2-800. The only difference is a slight performance increase here and there (for example, 25% CPU usage with DDR2-800 vs. 23% CPU usage with DDR2-1066 in HD video playback; that's it). The price difference is only $3 for 2GB, $8 for 4GB anyway, not worth struggling.

crazydrve

09-16-09, 02:19 AM

hey all. did some searching and couldn't find anything...

i am trying to output my 8800gts using the component tv out but i don't get anything on the tv but wavy lines.

i have uninstalled drivers and got latest drivers
i have double checked connections.
it has worked before.

any ideas

MomboX

09-16-09, 03:26 AM

Is there any bluray/hddvd combo drives out there I can throw in my htpc still? My hd-dvd standalone hasnt blown up yet but I assume it will give up the ghost one of these days....

Also what is the benefit going from the bluray 4x - 6x 8x drives? Can they all play a bluray fine enough? Theres a 59 buck bluray drive I just noticed.....

shaithis

09-16-09, 08:39 AM

The only BD/HD-DVD combo drives I have seen are the LGs, they do them in 2 types....

1. BD/HD-DVD reader + DVD-RW

2. HD-DVD reader + BD-RW + DVD-RW

shaithis

09-16-09, 08:53 AM

I have been studying the guides here trying to decide on my HTPC build and there is one thing I am really unsure of at the moment....

In the tables of recomended parts, why do all the systems with an add-in graphics card also have an IGP on the motherboard?

Is you are purchasing a HD4550, could you not get any motherboard at all to go with it and just use the HD4550 for both HD video and LPCM?

This entire subject seems like a mindfield....I am very computer literate, yet have now spent roughly 20 hours in the last week reading the various information out there and still cannot make my mind up on what solution to go for.....they all seem like you need to compromise something :(

All I want is a low power HD-DVD, BluRay and MKV capable machine what will do non-down coverted LPCM over HDMI.....is that too much to ask? *cries*

renethx

09-16-09, 09:29 AM

sjorma

09-16-09, 10:59 AM

Also Plextor has one which obviously is not sold on all markets:
http://www.plextor.be/products/blu-ray/px-b300sa.html

Regards Sjorma

candre23

09-16-09, 01:56 PM

Is you are purchasing a HD4550, could you not get any motherboard at all to go with it and just use the HD4550 for both HD video and LPCM?To the best of my knowledge, all mATX motherboards have integrated video. Since most people don't want enormous HTPCs, mATX is the recommended board size to use.

If you decide to go with a dedicated graphics card like the 4550, having an IGP on the board won't make any difference. The system will simply ignore it. It won't waste any power because it won't be used.

FoSheezy

09-16-09, 02:38 PM

renethx

09-16-09, 02:56 PM

5 Drive SATA Enclosure with PCI Express Controller AMS DS-2350S VENUS T5, $220
Ths was taken from the DAS recomendations, above.

My question: Is the capacity of this unit 5TB as stated or is that based only on 5 x 1TB drives? In other words, can I put 5 x 2TB drives in it to get 10TB? I have seen similar capacities for other units. Are these actual capacities or just based on certain drive sizes at the time of release?
5TB capacity assumes you use five 1TB HDDs. Beyond that, I don't know. You'd better contact the manufacturer. Even with HDDs <= 1TB, it looks like not every HDD is compatible with the SiI4726 chip.

archibael

09-16-09, 03:31 PM

To the best of my knowledge, all mATX motherboards have integrated video. Since most people don't want enormous HTPCs, mATX is the recommended board size to use.

I don't know that this was always the case. It's certainly no longer the case. At least two new i5/i7 boards are uATX without integrated graphics: DP55SB and DP55WB. The other vendors using the P55 chipset likely have some, too, now that the chip"set" is only a single chip.

MomboX

09-16-09, 05:54 PM

Quick question I have my HTPC hooked up with and DVI - HDMI into my tv and a optical cable from the sound card to the reciever. Hooked up this way should my reciever be able to be set to Multi Channel listening mode? I have a Onkyo 805. Right now when going through listening modes I cant find it and have it just set to Dolby Digital. Will this work just as well or is something wrong?

How can I tell if I am actually getting real 5.1 to my reciever?

If I buy one of those ATI HD4550 or 6550 could I just run video and audio through that? Does that come out uncompressed?

I have a AMD board from last year that was pretty popular dont have the model near me atm though. HTPC uses mediaportal on Windows 7 pro

Edit: Alright I have been reading that ATI 4xxx link in renethx sig. So I guess if I am just using power dvd to play blurays the only way for it to not compress it is to use one of those hdmi sound cards. BUT with say the 4550 I could rip the blurays into mkvs with flac audio and get multi channel LPCM to my reciever?

Is there anyway to bitstream to the reciever or do you need one of the hdmi sound cards for that as well?

I am finally going to have to get a HDMI switch if I switch my htpc to hdmi going into the reciever now....wish I got one with 4 hdmi inputs would have been perfect....

TroubleMan

09-16-09, 07:08 PM

I've been thinking about the HTPC I plan on building and I am looking for a few suggestions.

Cost ($) | Part: Item
$40 | Case: APEX MI-008 Mini-ITX
$140 | Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Wi-Fi Mini ITX *
$73 | CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
$65 | Memory: G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
$48 | Video Card: XFX HD-435X-ZAH2 Radeon HD 4350
$105 | Optical Drive: LG Black 8X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM
$85 | Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB SATA
Total: $556

* Zotac GF9300-G-E not released yet, but will be release in mid-October, has wake on USB feature

One thing I may not buy at the outset is an optical drive, would I be able to install Windows on this machine with a USB flash drive? I will eventually get a DVD drive, but I can pass on one for several months. Another thing you'll notice is the video card, which I'm only getting because my existing TV only has component input (and I don't think I'll be getting an LCD TV for a long time). I've seen DVI to Component output, but only for ATI cards. Other than that, the only extra I might add is an SSD drive as a boot disk. Is the cost of an SSD drive really worth it? I've been reading about drives and it appears one manufacturer, recommends a minimum of 60GB to run Windows 7 (minimum requirements are 16GB 32-bit, 20GB 64-bit), and that would tack on $150 extra to my build. And finally, I have an old ATI remote with USB receiver, should I be able to use the remote application to power my HTPC?

I found this tool helpful for power consideration: eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5 (http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp)

I set my CPU Utilization to 100%, System Load to 100%, and Capacitor Aging to 50% (all the variable maximums, assuming this is the worst case scenario), and I came away with 247W (with 3 USB devices drawing power away from the motherboard). So I wonder if this power supply that comes with the Apex case, is the wattage too low?

tsanga

09-16-09, 09:53 PM

I set my CPU Utilization to 100%, System Load to 100%, and Capacitor Aging to 50% (all the variable maximums, assuming this is the worst case scenario), and I came away with 247W (with 3 USB devices drawing power away from the motherboard). So I wonder if this power supply that comes with the Apex case, is the wattage too low?

I have the same PSU in a different Apex case (MJ-16). I have a uATX mobo (miniITX may be even more power efficient), 3 HDDs, 1 ODD, Intel E7400, and Radeon HD 4670, and the PSU handles everything with no problems. Tested with prime95. I haven't tried any hardcore 3D benchmarks, since all I do is watch TV with the system.

NFLnut

09-16-09, 11:10 PM

renethx

09-16-09, 11:33 PM

renethx

09-16-09, 11:51 PM

saxnix

09-16-09, 11:57 PM

Installing Windows from USB flash memory is pretty easy. Follow this instruction (http://www.thinkcomputers.org/index.php?x=articles&id=117) (I did do this a couple of times).

Here (http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/09/making-usb-windows-install-disk-creation-even-easier.html)are 2 little apps that do the same thing.

renethx

09-16-09, 11:58 PM

I'm in the process of buying the parts for the Premium Intel/Intel system, but am having trouble locating the Xigmatek Crossbow ACK-I5361 for the 1156 CPU. Any ideas where I can buy one? I have tried all of the retailers listed on the Xigmatek web site.
This became available a couple of days ago in some Asian countries but it looks like it has not been imported in US. You can use the stock cooler for a while.

BTW HD 5850/5870 will be released on September 23. Much better than 4850/4870.

A_Dude

09-17-09, 12:10 AM

I purchased the Antec M Fusion Remote 350 case for my second HT PC build (the previous was an Antec NSK2480, which is very well designed for cooling and low noise, and this is a similar design).
The system is now running (Gigabyte matx 785g, AMD 240, 4gb Adata DDR2-800, Hitachi 1TB) and the case is nice - smaller than the 2480, so smaller fans (I'll have to keep track if that means higher temps), slicker looking with the optical drive swing out cover (but the button does not quite hit the eject of my DVD drive, so I will have to make something to fit between and fix that).
The main "con" of the case is that the power supply has so many cables (probably also used in atx and tower cases), more cables than you could possibly use, because that many devices would never fit. The result is that the excess cables clog up the interior space and I had to tuck them away from the CPU and RAM at least. If it runs hot, I may have to cut some off...

Question: What is the most definitive way of determining RAM memory allocation for Windows and IGP ? I have the frame buffer set to "auto" and Catalyst reports 512 allocated, but another 1gb or so "available". Meanwhile, Vista SP1 32-bit reports 4gb of RAM memory (?), which must simply be the hardware installation, rather than the memory available to the OS. So, what is the definitive place to check where the memory is available?

renethx

09-17-09, 12:29 AM

Question: What is the most definitive way of determining RAM memory allocation for Windows and IGP ? I have the frame buffer set to "auto" and Catalyst reports 512 allocated, but another 1gb or so "available". Meanwhile, Vista SP1 32-bit reports 4gb of RAM memory (?), which must simply be the hardware installation, rather than the memory available to the OS. So, what is the definitive place to check where the memory is available?
Task Manager?

TroubleMan

09-17-09, 02:11 AM

Another (better) choice of video card is

- Sapphire Radeon HD 4550 HDMI, $45
- MonoPrice 2398 DVI-I Male to 3 RCA component Adapter, $6

kevm14 reported this worked.I was wondering if I should go with the Sapphire card, but I was wondering about the size of the memory interface, 128-bit vs. 64-bit. I may want to play a game or two on this machine, but no real gaming, the latest thing I would play is Half-Life 2 and some emulator ROMs.

SSD is a good choice only if you have enough money.I could afford SSD, I'm just wondering if it is truly worth having it in my system, is the performance boost really worth the price is all I'm looking for. I was really hoping 32GB would be enough because I don't think $85-$100 is so bad, but I may wait for another price drop before I make such a decision.

You can turn the system into S3 sleep, but can't power it off with a normal MCE remote/receiver. You need an IMON remote/receiver such as Antec Multimedia Station Basic, $21. Or use Gyration.But won't that take up the 5.25" drive bay in my system? What I have currently plugs into the USB, so I would want something similar to that. I think I might wait for the newer board because I already have the controller, so I wouldn't have to spend extra.

The result from eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite v2.5 is far from realistic. The actual power consumption of your system will never exceed 120W.As long as the numbers are above the realistic threshold, I'm fine, plus I also changed the parameters that were not accurate (like 100% CPU load).

Thanks for the info, I think this will be a pretty nice system, I'm just waiting on the motherboard. :)

renethx

09-17-09, 02:23 AM

I was wondering if I should go with the Sapphire card, but I was wondering about the size of the memory interface, 128-bit vs. 64-bit. I may want to play a game or two on this machine, but no real gaming, the latest thing I would play is Half-Life 2 and some emulator ROMs.

I could afford SSD, I'm just wondering if it is truly worth having it in my system, is the performance boost really worth the price is all I'm looking for. I was really hoping 32GB would be enough because I don't think $85-$100 is so bad, but I may wait for another price drop before I make such a decision.

But won't that take up the 5.25" drive bay in my system?
You'd better go for Sugo SG05. Then you can use almost any graphics card up to HD 4850/GTS 250.

You'd better read articles like this (http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631). Perhaps a cheaper SSD is not worth (more trouble than performance boost). 32GB is enough unless you install tons of applications.

Antec Basic occupies a 3.5" bay.

nalooti

09-17-09, 03:54 AM

- Graphics card: HIS H467PS1GH is the best fanless card for video playback. You can't use an internal TV tuner PCI Express card then. (Use HDHomeRun [digital only] or a USB tuner.)

renethx, excuse me for this newbie question but I'm still confused regarding graphics and TV tuner cards.
I though that having a good and powerful TVtuner card makes less mandatory to have also a good graphics card, but now I understand that a TVtuner card has nothing to do with a graphic card i.e. both are required. Do you confirm?

I understand that a graphic card is more important because it allows playing smoothly HD contents (primary reason of a HTPC). I mean if I have to choose between the two, I should pick the graphic card, even if this lead me to take a USB tuner which is less performing than a PCIe TVtuner card.
Do you confirm ?

I saw the HDHomeRun but I'm trying to reduce the number of boxes since I have not much space.

thanks a lot
nalooti

renethx

09-17-09, 04:18 AM

renethx, excuse me for this newbie question but I'm still confused regarding graphics and TV tuner cards.
I though that having a good and powerful TVtuner card makes less mandatory to have also a good graphics card, but now I understand that a TVtuner card has nothing to do with a graphic card i.e. both are required. Do you confirm?

I understand that a graphic card is more important because it allows playing smoothly HD contents (primary reason of a HTPC). I mean if I have to choose between the two, I should pick the graphic card, even if this lead me to take a USB tuner which is less performing than a PCIe TVtuner card.
Do you confirm ?

I saw the HDHomeRun but I'm trying to reduce the number of boxes since I have not much space.

thanks a lot
nalooti
Yup, a graphics card and a TV tuner are independent of each other. The role of a TV tuner is selective tuning and demodulation, producing usable video/audio (MPEG-2 compressed) streams, then demultiplexing. The role of a graphis card is decompressing MPEG-2 (or any other comressed format) video streams and processing (deinterlacing and various video processings), and sending raw video frames to the display device.

The graphics card is necessary not only to display TV channels but also other video formats.

nalooti

09-17-09, 05:24 AM

Hi renethx,

I discussed with you about choosing components for a mid-range HTPC. Thanks very much for all your time and help.

Now, I have another need that I don’t know whom and on which forum to ask for help. This is a very simple need and maybe I’m just unable to search in the right place because I think others must have similar needs. Or, people’s need are so wide that this one is just a subset of others and people didn’t even talk about.
Here is what I want. I want to build a very simple and small box with 2 or 3 SATA slots just for backing up my data. I know there are lots of NAS on the market able to do this but my needs are a bit different for the following reasons :
1/ I don’t need any RAID function ; I just want to backup my data in a central place
2/ I don’t want a Linux and/or a constrained OS as seen on various NAS where installing a soft is not straightforward. I want to install a full XP/Windows7 and to have the ability to install any program on it. In other words I want a small PC.
3/ I want this backup station to be able to stream contents via SMB, NFS or UPnP. Being a PC, I’d have lots of choice to install the UPnP server I want. This is another reason for my previous statement (want a PC)
4/ I want the backup station to be small, low power and dedicated only to sharing/streaming, plus some more tasks like Emule, **********, web/photo/music/surveillance(IPcamera) server over the WAN.

I saw an article on SmallNetBuilder.com on building a fast NAS using Intel ATOM CPU/motherboard. But other than the fact that I want a GigE interface, I’m not interested on performance issues for RAID or for hard drives (I could even chose 5400rpm disks).
In short, I can’t find components suggestions for building such a PC. Could you please give me some or point me to the right place ?
Many thanks
nalooti

renethx

09-17-09, 06:22 AM

nalooti

09-17-09, 06:51 AM

- Case & PSU: Cenbro ES34069 (with 120W or 180W PSU) (1 internal 2.5" bay + 4 hot-swap 3.5" bays), $175.
- CPU: Athlon II X2 240 ADX240OCGQBOX 2.8GHz AM3, $60.
- MB: ZOTAC GeForce 8200-ITX WiFi GF8200-C-E AM2+ GeForce 8200 mGPU Mini-ITX, $110.
- Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $32.

If you want to go cheaper (and bigger), there are lots of choices of microATX systems.

Very interesting case.

Can you give me an Intel CPU/MB example please ?

I presume it would support all the applications I listed without being at full charge so it can run cool ?

thanks
nalooti

renethx

09-17-09, 06:57 AM

Very interesting case.

Can you give me an Intel CPU/MB example please ?

I presume it would support all the applications I listed without being at full charge so it can run cool ?

thanks
nalooti
- CPU: Celeron Dual-Core E3200 2.40GHz 1MB L2 LGA775, $43. (Or Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775, $63.)
- Motherboard: Intel DG45FC (BOXDG45FC) LGA775 Intel G45 chipset Mini-ITX, $115.

NFLnut

09-17-09, 01:07 PM

This became available a couple of days ago in some Asian countries but it looks like it has not been imported in US. You can use the stock cooler for a while.

BTW HD 5850/5870 will be released on September 23. Much better than 4850/4870.

Thanks renethx .. I'm going to settle for now with the deal on Newegg that includes the free Cooler Master cooler with the i7. It looks vaguely similar to the Xigmatek.

In regards to the video card .. I was going to go with a single HD 4890 for now .. anything newer/better on the near horizon for THAT card?

Thanks again for all the work you've done! I never would have gotten this far without all of your hard work!

MomboX

09-17-09, 01:28 PM

Let me know your system configuration (i.e. the model number of each component).

Alright this is what my HTPC has in it ATM

Antec Solution Series NSK2400
GIGABYTE GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 AMD 690G HDMI Micro ATX AMD
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz
PNY VCG8600GXPB GeForce 8600 GT
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Sondigo inferno 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card
Samsung 500gb Sata 3.0

I have dvi - hdmi going from the 8600 to the tv
and optical going from the Sondingo to the reciever

If there is a way to make it run better then that would be excellent. Even though I am considering upgrading my Mobo and Cpu to your budget Intel/Nvidia build I think it was. Then I can chuck the sound card and video card.

renethx

09-17-09, 01:40 PM

Thanks renethx .. I'm going to settle for now with the deal on Newegg that includes the free Cooler Master cooler with the i7. It looks vaguely similar to the Xigmatek.

In regards to the video card .. I was going to go with a single HD 4890 for now .. anything newer/better on the near horizon for THAT card?

Thanks again for all the work you've done! I never would have gotten this far without all of your hard work!
A quick comparison between 48xx and 58xx (September 23) is here (http://en.expreview.com/2009/09/15/first-radeon-hd-5870-benchmarks-hit-the-web.html). 5870 is roughty 50% faster than 4890. But the initial price will be $349-$399! A specs summary is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1179134). A big problem of the current HD 48xx is its high power consumption at idle (40W-60W or more). HD 58xx consumes only 27W at idle.

renethx

09-17-09, 02:00 PM

Alright this is what my HTPC has in it ATM

Antec Solution Series NSK2400
GIGABYTE GA-MA69GM-S2H AM2 AMD 690G HDMI Micro ATX AMD
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor 2.6GHz
PNY VCG8600GXPB GeForce 8600 GT
G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Sondigo inferno 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card
Samsung 500gb Sata 3.0

I have dvi - hdmi going from the 8600 to the tv
and optical going from the Sondingo to the reciever

If there is a way to make it run better then that would be excellent. Even though I am considering upgrading my Mobo and Cpu to your budget Intel/Nvidia build I think it was. Then I can chuck the sound card and video card.
My recommendation is sell both GeForce 8600 GT and Sondigo inferno, and buy Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 or 4550 (as on page 85). (4670 is better in PQ, of course.) Connect the HDMI connector to Onkyo 805. Then you will get multichannel LPCM (lossless) audio from any audio source over HDMI. Using Onkyo 805 with S/PDIF or analog is a waste.

Your mb and CPU should be fine.

FoSheezy

09-17-09, 02:01 PM

kevm14

09-17-09, 02:06 PM

This entire subject seems like a mindfield.

Try being me and requiring component video output. And I have had an open discussion with AMD/ATI on whether all HD4670 cards have component support via the DVI port. The answer, I think, is they all do...but with my luck I'll buy the one that doesn't and no one knows or supports it anyway.

renethx

09-17-09, 02:17 PM

I am looking to do the following build and need some advice.
The main purpose of this HTPC would be for ripping DVDs and Blurays to a 5TB DAS, which I can then connect to a popcorn hour C-200 for playback. I wouldnt even be using the HTPC for playback, but I would want to be able to surf the net and play some minor games. Would this be overkill, not enough, or about right for my needs. Also, how does that work if the case comes with a PS as does the mobo? Thanks!

Motherboard Zotac IONITX-C-U Inntel Atom w/ 90W PSU $116.00
RAM A-DATA 2 x 1GB DDR2 SDRAM $34.00
Hard Drive WD Caviar 500GB $55.00
Bluray/DVD LITE_ON ihes109-29 Bluray Drive $90.00
Case APEX MI-008 Mini ITX w/ 250W Power Supply $40.00
Total $335.00
"I wouldnt even be using the HTPC for playback": This is a bit perplexing. Theater is for video playback, isn't it? Surely the system is not good for games (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3562&p=11). You'd better go for the Zotac LGA775 board, and even add a discrete graphics card.

In case you use the Atom system with MI-008, just remove the PSU bundled with the case.

nalooti

09-17-09, 02:20 PM

renethx

09-17-09, 02:38 PM

Hi renethx, all

Maybe this is a subject discussed many times, but could you please explain the goods and bads of using a notebook cpu (for lower power) instead of a desktop one in a HTPC ?
What are the options to have the same performance level for a mid-range HTPC configuration?

Also is the same reasoning applicable for a very low power not that powerful cpu for a backup station (without RAID - just file sharing and UPnP streaming) ?

Based on your response, I'll give you the recommended cpu you suggested for me in previous posts, in order to have the equivalent notebook cpu for each.

I presume this will change also the motherboard and lots of things!

Actually I don't know how to compare CPUs and don't think the number of cores and the frequency would be enough to guess their real speed

thanks
Mobile CPU uses a different socket so that you can't use it with a desktop mb. Intel desktop CPU already consumes remarkably low power (for example check this chart (http://www.behardware.com/articles/717-2/intel-core-2-q9300-e7200.html); only 20W with E7200) so that no mb manufacturer considers MoDT (Mobile on Desktop) any longer (except Atom).

FoSheezy

09-17-09, 02:45 PM

"I wouldnt even be using the HTPC for playback": This is a bit perplexing. Theater is for video playback, isn't it? Surely the system is not good for games (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3562&p=11). You'd better go for the Zotac LGA775 board, and even add a discrete graphics card.

Although it wont be used for playback, it will be installed in my HT. I suppose I can call it a PC installed in my HT. As far as gaming, Im talking minimal graphics like Sims and maybe Starcraft. Most of my gaming is on the 360 and PS3 anyways. I just want to make sure it will do the job of ripping and not take forever. I could forgo the gaming capabilities altogether if it will save me money.

I like the MI-008 case due to size and style. Is there a better setup that would meet my needs for less $$$. I just dont want to have to lug my DAS downstairs when ripping discs and then take it back up and reconnect in the theater. I just want a cheap PC that would be dedicated to ripping discs well and quickly that I can keep up in the theater. I may be overdoing it.

WMKane

09-17-09, 02:54 PM

renethx, may I add to the chorus of thank yous for your input. Putting together my first system, so I'm looking for something that is relatively user friendly for an inexperienced builder. For the guts I'm looking at the following:

- AMD Phenom II X3 720
- GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H
- G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ
- Corsair CMPSU-550VX 550W

I have several laptop HDDs sitting around (I plan on doing all bulk storage on a Lacie d2 Network already on installed on my network) for storage. Part of my design theory is focused on expandability. I have my eye on that CETON cable card some day and I recognize that I may want to add a GPU if I'm not satisfied with the on-board option (but I'm willing to give it a chance for now). I'd also like to send 5.1 surround to my Denon AVR with the S/PDIF output.

I apologize if I've made any gross errors in my thinking, but will this give me a decent set-up that will last a good number of years? Thanks so much!!

renethx

09-17-09, 03:03 PM

I like the MI-008 case due to size and style. Is there a better setup that would meet my needs for less $$$. I just dont want to have to lug my DAS downstairs when ripping discs and then take it back up and reconnect in the theater. I just want a cheap PC that would be dedicated to ripping discs well and quickly that I can keep up in the theater. I may be overdoing it.
MI-008 is perhaps the cheapest solution. There are several smaller Mini-ITX cases (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17138954#post17138954) for Atom but more expensive.

renethx

09-17-09, 03:07 PM

Tijs_Verwest

09-17-09, 03:17 PM

Case: SILVERSTONE Sugo SG05-B Black SECC 100 $ i LOVE it , but wiil it fit a micro atx board? , seems not =(, can u recommend something similar but not much bigger, i want a small case , i was planning on getting the Apex MI-100BK Mini-ITX, $48. but it seems build with too much plastic and too many leds , can they be disabled? i also liked the SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF Black ABS 70 $ but it seems TOO big

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD DDR3 1800+ (OC), HD4200 DirectX10.1 & 2 90 $ , isnt there a board similar to this one but mini itx? with 8 channel audio, a good integrated graphic card , etc

renethx

09-17-09, 03:21 PM

Case: SILVERSTONE Sugo SG05-B Black SECC 100 $ i LOVE it but wiil it fit a micro atx board =( , seems not, can u recommend something similar but not much bigger, i want a small case , i was planning on getting the Apex MI-100BK Mini-ITX, $48. but it seems build with too much plastic and too many leds , can they be disabled? i also liked the SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF Black ABS 70 $ but it seems TOO big

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD DDR3 1800+ (OC), HD4200 DirectX10.1 & 2 90 $ , isnt there a board similar to this one but mini itx? with 8 channel audio, a good integrated graphic card , etc
Which do you want, Mini-ITX or microATX?

WMKane

09-17-09, 03:28 PM

Very good. BTW Athlon II X4 630, $122, is another good choice. A good review is here.

Thanks for the confirmation! If you were going to add a graphics card what would you recommend?

renethx

09-17-09, 03:31 PM

Thanks for the confirmation! If you were going to add a graphics card what would you recommend?
Right now Sapphire HD 4670 (with a black Arctic Cooling Accelero L2 cooler) is the best card for video playback.

kevm14

09-17-09, 03:42 PM

Do you have the link to a review that shows the 4670 excelling in every video playback category?

And on a slightly unrelated note, has anyone figured out how to use H.264 as a DVR video format?

renethx

09-17-09, 03:52 PM

Do you have the link to a review that shows the 4670 excelling in every video playback category?

And on a slightly unrelated note, has anyone figured out how to use H.264 as a DVR video format?
If you google, you may be able to find some HQV benchmark results. Other important factors are power consumption and perhaps HDMI audio.

ATSC/QAM uses MPEG-2. So you have to do re-encoding.

nalooti

09-17-09, 04:04 PM

Mobile CPU uses a different socket so that you can't use it with a desktop mb. Intel desktop CPU already consumes remarkably low power (for example check this chart (http://www.behardware.com/articles/717-2/intel-core-2-q9300-e7200.html); only 20W with E7200) so that no mb manufacturer considers MoDT (Mobile on Desktop) any longer (except Atom).

Ok, I understand, but why then notebook CPUs need less cooling relatively to desktop CPUs which need those big heatsinks and fans ? Each time I see those big heatsinks I wonder how hot they can get!

Do you know for example the max temperature at 50% load of:
Celeron Dual-Core E3200
Dual-Core E5300
Core 2 Duo E7500

renethx

09-17-09, 04:14 PM

Ok, I understand, but why then notebook CPUs need less cooling relatively to desktop CPUs which need those big heatsinks and fans ? Each time I see those big heatsinks I wonder how hot they can get!

Do you know for example the max temperature at 50% load of:
Celeron Dual-Core E3200
Dual-Core E5300
Core 2 Duo E7500
Mobile CPU is designed to run cooler for better battery longevity (by lowering FSB, etc.). You don't have to worry about power consumption of a desktop system to the same degree as a mobile device (do you?).

The temperature depends on the cooler you use, and even if you use the stock cooler, it depends on the fan speed setting. So knowing (or comparing) it is not so useful. As for power consumption,

E3200 < E5300 < E7500 =~20W max.

tsanga

09-17-09, 04:39 PM

Do you have the link to a review that shows the 4670 excelling in every video playback category?

Here's one (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/media-playback_6.html).

Right now Sapphire HD 4670 (with a black Arctic Cooling Accelero L2 cooler) is the best card for video playback.

No more love for the HIS? Has Sapphire moved past the earlier driver issues? Also, is the Arctic Cooling Accelero L2 better than the Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer (aka IceQ) on the HIS?

Tijs_Verwest

09-17-09, 04:45 PM

Which do you want, Mini-ITX or microATX?
Id like to get a mini itx board/case but it seems there arent powerful/decent mini itx motherboards for amd processors out there , so im gonna have to end up buying a micro atx :(

digitlnoize

09-17-09, 07:52 PM

renethx

09-17-09, 11:53 PM

No more love for the HIS? Has Sapphire moved past the earlier driver issues? Also, is the Arctic Cooling Accelero L2 better than the Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer (aka IceQ) on the HIS?
IceQ is so powerful that HIS omitted intelligent fan control for the 4670 chip (i.e. the fan rotates at a constant speed). Nevertheless it's very quiet and effective. But Accelero L2 is quieter at idle and video playback because of its intelligent fan control (this post (http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=452874#452874)). I haven't seen an issue with Catalyst driver 9.8 (for the Sapphire GDDR4 version).

renethx

09-18-09, 12:02 AM

Id like to get a mini itx board/case but it seems there arent powerful/decent mini itx motherboards for amd processors out there , so im gonna have to end up buying a micro atx :(
Why not go with Sugo SG05+Pentium/Core 2+Zotac GeForce 9300? You can even add a discrete graphics card up to HD 4850 if you need more graphics power.

renethx

09-18-09, 12:17 AM

I noticed that the new guide does not have the AMD Phenom II X4 905e...the 65w one...

Was it purposefully left off for some reason? Any known issues? It seems like it'd be a good choice for a low power HTPC...
I just don't see a reason to use this slow 2.5GHz processor in the high-end system for which I assume performance is more important than lower power consumption (this is just my assumption). For mid-range, Athlon II X4 630 2.8GHz, $122, is a good choice. If you want to save power sacrificing performance, then Athlon II X4 605e 2.3GHz 45W is there (released today). Here are comparions between Athlon II X4 605e, Athlon II X4 630 and Phenom II X3 720.

Performance

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=152876&stc=1&d=1253247297

Power Consumption ("アイドル時" = at idle, "エンコード中" = encoding)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=152877&stc=1&d=1253247297

Beta Tester

09-18-09, 02:54 AM

Right now Sapphire HD 4670 (with a black Arctic Cooling Accelero L2 cooler) is the best card for video playback.

I am having trouble finding any Sapphire 4670 cards locally. Is this being discontinued?

renethx

09-18-09, 03:05 AM

I am having trouble finding any Sapphire 4670 cards locally. Is this being discontinued?
Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4 with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 has been discontinued. But Sapphire just released two new HD 4670 DDR3 cards with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&Manufactory=1561&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045) that I recommend now.

Beta Tester

09-18-09, 03:24 AM

Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4 with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 has been discontinued. But Sapphire just released http://www.jdoqocy.com/image-3136390-10521304two new HD 4670 DDR3 cards with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-3136390-10521304?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newegg.com%2FProduct%2FProduct List.aspx%3FSubmit%3DProperty%26Subcategory%3D48%26Descripti on%3D%26Type%3D%26N%3D2010380048%26srchInDesc%3D%26MinPrice% 3D%26MaxPrice%3D%26OEMMark%3D0%26Manufactory%3D1561%26Proper tyCodeValue%3D679%253A44045) that I recommend now.

Thanks, I will look for them.

I was originally planning on routing the HDMI output from the 4670 into the Asus Xonar HDAV Slim so I can get video & lossless audio using just one HDMI cable. You mentioned that the 4670 will also support lossless audio - does this mean I don't need the Asus Xonar?

renethx

09-18-09, 03:51 AM

does this mean I don't need the Asus Xonar?
Yes, almost. If you want to bistream Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio, then you will need Xonar.

tsanga

09-18-09, 08:21 AM

IceQ is so powerful that HIS omitted intelligent fan control for the 4670 chip (i.e. the fan rotates at a constant speed). Nevertheless it's very quiet and effective. But Accelero L2 is quieter at idle and video playback because of its intelligent fan control (this post (http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=452874#452874)). I haven't seen an issue with Catalyst driver 9.8 (for the Sapphire GDDR4 version).

renethx,

Thanks for all your extensive testing.

It looks like your calibrated ear perhaps has a different weighting than what these guys were using? :D
HIS HD 4670 IceQ fan noise (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_4670_IceQ_Turbo/25.html)
Sapphire 4770 Accelero L2 fan noise (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_4770_PCS/29.html)

Or perhaps the BIOS setting for minimum duty cycle is different between Sapphire 4670 and 4770. But if HIS IceQ = Sapphire Accelero L2 @ 50%, then under load IceQ would be quieter (probably only gaming, and not the case when playing video).

In any case, wouldn't it be possible to use RBE to modify the minimum duty cycle in the IceQ? Or are you saying that HIS took out that function?

renethx

09-18-09, 08:54 AM

tsanga

HD 4770 consumes 10W more than HD 4670 at idle. So perhaps you can't discuss 4670 and 4770 the same way.

At full load (3D), IceQ is quieter (well, the same noise at idle). Otherwise Accelero L2 with 4670 is quieter. Don't need an expensive tool, this is evident (to me). Extreme quietness of the Sapphire card has been attested by several users in this thread.

Modifing BIOS doesn't change the minimum duty cycle. Perhaps HIS 4670 lacks necessary electric circuitry.

tsanga

09-18-09, 10:02 AM

You know I was only kidding about your ear being uncalibrated, right? :D You test everything, nothing would ever surprise me.

It's good to get some real world experiences to go with lab measurements. At first glance, it's clear the Accelero L2 has a much larger (slower spinning) fan than the enclosed one in the HIS/IceQ/VGA Silencer.

I started experimenting with RBE and rivatuner on my HIS card. Perhaps that's why I haven't noticed any changes - it's not doing anything! The BIOS pulled from the card does show a lookup table for duty cycle, but I haven't tried to modify it.

renethx

09-18-09, 10:30 AM

Beta Tester

09-18-09, 11:50 AM

Yes, almost. If you want to bistream Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD Master Audio, then you will need Xonar.

Does this mean that with the 4670, the TrueHD and DTS-HD/MA decoding happens internally, and the 4670 routes the resultant 7.1 LPCM via HDMI. Whereas with the Asus Xonar the bitstream is sent via HDMI and the receiver does the decoding? For me, it doesn't matter where the decoding happens.

Quietness isn't an issue for me, since my htpc is located in another room. Would the 4770 be a better choice if I am willing to pay the $30 difference, if I want err on the side of "better to have too much"?

Thanks again.

tsanga

09-18-09, 11:59 AM

"Fan throttle control settings" of the HIS card should look like this (http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=449778#449778). A bad look. HIS Tech Support confirmed this (http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=450104#450104).

This is what I got from the BIOS extracted from the HIS HD 4670 card (specifically H467QS1GH) using GPU-Z. The default is "Use transfer function", but I clicked "Use look up table" radio button to illustrate the LUT profile. I haven't tried saving the LUT and reflashing the card - too chickensh!t in case something gets hosed.

However, since default Duty cycle min is set to 0%, and Tmin is 60C, yet the fan still spins no matter what (idle temp in my case is 47-49C), HIS obviously pegged the fan speed regardless of temperature (as confirmed by them). The question is whether I could override it with the LUT?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=152901&d=1253289513

renethx

09-18-09, 01:13 PM

Does this mean that with the 4670, the TrueHD and DTS-HD/MA decoding happens internally, and the 4670 routes the resultant 7.1 LPCM via HDMI. Whereas with the Asus Xonar the bitstream is sent via HDMI and the receiver does the decoding? For me, it doesn't matter where the decoding happens.

Quietness isn't an issue for me, since my htpc is located in another room. Would the 4770 be a better choice if I am willing to pay the $30 difference, if I want err on the side of "better to have too much"?

Thanks again.
Yes, exactly. But if you use an AACS-compliant player (PowerDVD, TMT, WinDVD), downsampling and PAP are involved. Playing back MKV+FLAC files with a media player is free from this issue, as well as the upcoming SlyPlayer (a non-AACS BD player).

4770 is good for gaming. But you won't see PQ improvement. As far as video playback is concerned, any card higher than 4670 is the same as 4670.

renethx

09-18-09, 01:20 PM

However, since default Duty cycle min is set to 0%, and Tmin is 60C, yet the fan still spins no matter what (idle temp in my case is 47-49C), HIS obviously pegged the fan speed regardless of temperature (as confirmed by them). The question is whether I could override it with the LUT?
Hmm, BIOS looks different from mine (the earliest card with 2 x DVI+7-pin mini-DIN connectors). But perhaps the fun control function is disabled electrically in the new version too. HIS card is quiet enough perhaps for most people anyway.

0majestic1

09-18-09, 02:01 PM

Renethx, I just have a quick question about your mid-range microATX Intel/Intel recommendation.
You suggest the G45 board and a Radeon 4670, but doesn't the G45 do HD video and audio out the onboard HDMI? Why the need for a dedicated video card?

Thanks for all your knowledge in this forum, it has helped me tremendously.

-0majestic1

renethx

09-18-09, 02:10 PM

Renethx, I just have a quick question about your mid-range microATX Intel/Intel recommendation.
You suggest the G45 board and a Radeon 4670, but doesn't the G45 do HD video and audio out the onboard HDMI? Why the need for a dedicated video card?
A discrete card is not necessary. Added it just for better video quality.

tsanga

09-18-09, 02:11 PM

Hmm, BIOS looks different from mine (the earliest card with 2 x DVI+7-pin mini-DIN connectors). But perhaps the fun control function is disabled electrically in the new version too. HIS card is quiet enough perhaps for most people anyway.

What are my risks for changing the behavior from "transfer function" to "look up table" and reflashing the BIOS? I've never flashed a GPU BIOS and don't know the pitfalls. If it fails, can I just reflash the stock BIOS?

I could give it a try.

renethx

09-18-09, 02:29 PM

What are my risks for changing the behavior from "transfer function" to "look up table" and reflashing the BIOS? I've never flashed a GPU BIOS and don't know the pitfalls. If it fails, can I just reflash the stock BIOS?

I could give it a try.
I flashed video BIOS just twice. Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16607351#post16607351) is a simple (two-sentence) instruction I wrote. (ATI) WinFlash is a Windows utility to flash BIOS. Even if your card does not boot after flashing, restoring the original BIOS should be pretty easy using WinFlash if you use a mb with IGP. (No guarantee though. ;))

Marc_G

09-18-09, 02:43 PM

Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4 with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 has been discontinued. But Sapphire just released two new HD 4670 DDR3 cards with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&Manufactory=1561&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045) that I recommend now.

Why is the one that doesn't support Crossfire cheaper?

renethx

09-18-09, 02:49 PM

Why is the one that doesn't support Crossfire cheaper?
What's your question? If you are talking about gaming, then there are lots of better cards for this purpose.

tsanga

09-18-09, 03:16 PM

I flashed video BIOS just twice. Here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16607351#post16607351) is a simple (two-sentence) instruction I wrote. (ATI) WinFlash is a Windows utility to flash BIOS. Even if your card does not boot after flashing, restoring the original BIOS should be pretty easy using WinFlash if you use a mb with IGP. (No guarantee though. ;))

After doing some more reading, it seems there's only a low likelihood that the HIS comes with a legitimate fan controller, with no stories of successful reflashing of HIS BIOS (for overclocking). The Overdrive tab is even disabled in ATI CCC.

Probably not worth the risk - the card's pretty quiet from my couch 10 ft away. :)

alucard77

09-18-09, 03:26 PM

renethx

09-18-09, 03:28 PM

After doing some more reading, it seems there's only a low likelihood that the HIS comes with a legitimate fan controller, with no stories of successful reflashing of HIS BIOS (for overclocking). The Overdrive tab is even disabled in ATI CCC.

Probably not worth the risk - the card's pretty quiet from my couch 10 ft away. :)
Yeah, your decision is right. Forget about fan control and enjoy video playback.

BTW did you click the key icon in ATI Overdrive? You should be able to manually adjust GPU and Memory Clock. With the Sapphire card, I can also check "Enable Manual Fan Control" (but if I select this, the fan rotates at a constant duty cycle all the time). Perhaps this option is grayed out with the HIS card.

renethx

09-18-09, 03:36 PM

Can anyone recommend a good DVI-I video card. I have an old school 1080i TV that I want to build this for. It only takes component cables so I will need a DVI-I card.

So any suggestions would be appreciated.
Sapphire HD 4670 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102855) with MonoPrice 2398 DVI-I Male to 3 RCA component Adapter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041901&p_id=2398&seq=1&format=2) (I haven't tested it yet, but it should work; if not, I am sorry).

BTW the DVI connector of almost every discrete video card is DVI-I (but this does not necessarily mean that signals are YPbPr).