Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 41

nickman789

09-18-09, 05:09 PM

Thanks for creating such an amazing guide to building HTPCs. I don't know what I would do without it.

Couple of questions. I apologize if these have been asked before.

I am thinking of building the Intel/Intel Mid-Range system (specs copied below). I'm using the unit to playback music and video (BR)s, and as a storage device. Is this midrange unit enough to play BR DVDs or HD video (the highest processing I'm guessing I will do)? I'll be hooking up to a receiver, likely the Pioneer VSX-1019, with 5.1 speaker system.

I am not going to be using it for games. So, what is the advantage of building the High-End system over the Mid-Range system? Or should I build the Low-End system? I'd like to have some expandability for the future.

Can I get HDMI audio with 5.1 from my dGPU? Or will I need to purchase one of these two audio cards? Will these sound cards work with the video card below? I've read a couple of the PAP, etc. guides, but I still don't have a full understanding of what is going on or what the impact on my sound will be.

# ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe PCIe x1 Card
# Auzentech Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater HD

I'm using the ASUS motherboard, so the dGPU would take up my PCIex16 slot, and the audio card would take one of my PCIex1 slots, correct?

I noticed that the ASUS motherboard has 6 xSATA 3 Gb/s ports with
Intel Matrix Storage Technology Support RAID 0,1,5,10. Can I use one of these ports to hook up a DAS unit, such as the listed AMS DS-2350S VENUS T5 or Rosewill RSV-S8? Or will I need to use the included PCIex1 card? I'm guessing the latter.

Thanks for all of your help!

System

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93GHz 3MB L2 LGA775, $113.
* CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBU1-GP, $32.
* Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM LGA775 Intel G45 chipset microATX, $125.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $57.
* Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 DDR3 1GB, $70.
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX 450W, $60.
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black microATX, with LCD/IR receiver/remote, $140.
* Total Cost: $667

nickman789

09-18-09, 06:33 PM

I should add that I will be doing DVD ripping also.

I just looked at the guide again, and saw that the Intel/NVid chipset does better with BR at 24hz, but not a good with SD. I'll be running movies at SD, so should I stick with the Intel/Intel chipset?

Thanks again!!

Thanks for creating such an amazing guide to building HTPCs. I don't know what I would do without it.

Couple of questions. I apologize if these have been asked before.

I am thinking of building the Intel/Intel Mid-Range system (specs copied below). I'm using the unit to playback music and video (BR)s, and as a storage device. Is this midrange unit enough to play BR DVDs or HD video (the highest processing I'm guessing I will do)? I'll be hooking up to a receiver, likely the Pioneer VSX-1019, with 5.1 speaker system.

I am not going to be using it for games. So, what is the advantage of building the High-End system over the Mid-Range system? Or should I build the Low-End system? I'd like to have some expandability for the future.

Can I get HDMI audio with 5.1 from my dGPU? Or will I need to purchase one of these two audio cards? Will these sound cards work with the video card below? I've read a couple of the PAP, etc. guides, but I still don't have a full understanding of what is going on or what the impact on my sound will be.

# ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe PCIe x1 Card
# Auzentech Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater HD

I'm using the ASUS motherboard, so the dGPU would take up my PCIex16 slot, and the audio card would take one of my PCIex1 slots, correct?

I noticed that the ASUS motherboard has 6 xSATA 3 Gb/s ports with
Intel Matrix Storage Technology Support RAID 0,1,5,10. Can I use one of these ports to hook up a DAS unit, such as the listed AMS DS-2350S VENUS T5 or Rosewill RSV-S8? Or will I need to use the included PCIex1 card? I'm guessing the latter.

Thanks for all of your help!

System

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93GHz 3MB L2 LGA775, $113.
* CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBU1-GP, $32.
* Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM LGA775 Intel G45 chipset microATX, $125.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $57.
* Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 DDR3 1GB, $70.
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX 450W, $60.
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black microATX, with LCD/IR receiver/remote, $140.
* Total Cost: $667

bikermunda

09-18-09, 07:12 PM

Well i went through the whole thing but i am still confused which one is the best confirguration for playing HD content or can i use any one of the configuration for it ?

nickman789

09-18-09, 07:14 PM

Well i went through the whole thing but i am still confused which one is the best confirguration for playing HD content or can i use any one of the configuration for it ?

Everything is strong enough to play HD content.

bikermunda

09-18-09, 07:15 PM

Everything is strong enough to play HD content.

thanks for answering my question and i have one more question will i be able to add BD drive to any of these as well ?

etcarroll

09-18-09, 08:16 PM

Yes - assuming you have an open SATA and power connection to plug into the drive when you instal it.

renethx

09-19-09, 12:27 AM

I am thinking of building the Intel/Intel Mid-Range system (specs copied below). I'm using the unit to playback music and video (BR)s, and as a storage device. Is this midrange unit enough to play BR DVDs or HD video (the highest processing I'm guessing I will do)? I'll be hooking up to a receiver, likely the Pioneer VSX-1019, with 5.1 speaker system.

I am not going to be using it for games. So, what is the advantage of building the High-End system over the Mid-Range system? Or should I build the Low-End system? I'd like to have some expandability for the future.

Can I get HDMI audio with 5.1 from my dGPU? Or will I need to purchase one of these two audio cards? Will these sound cards work with the video card below? I've read a couple of the PAP, etc. guides, but I still don't have a full understanding of what is going on or what the impact on my sound will be.

# ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe PCIe x1 Card
# Auzentech Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater HD

I'm using the ASUS motherboard, so the dGPU would take up my PCIex16 slot, and the audio card would take one of my PCIex1 slots, correct?

I noticed that the ASUS motherboard has 6 xSATA 3 Gb/s ports with
Intel Matrix Storage Technology Support RAID 0,1,5,10. Can I use one of these ports to hook up a DAS unit, such as the listed AMS DS-2350S VENUS T5 or Rosewill RSV-S8? Or will I need to use the included PCIex1 card? I'm guessing the latter.
Check the characterization of each system at the beginning of the section. Expandability depends on the case (low-profile or full-height) and the form factor of the mb. With microATX and a 2-slot discrete graphics card, you can add only one PCI Express x1 card and one PCI card. So choose them carefully.

Check the feature table for HDMI audio. ASUS or Auzentech card is necessary if you want to bitstream HD audio.

These DAS units require a "PM-aware" SATA controller (such a controller PCI Express x1 card is bundled with each unit). So this occupies another PCI Express x1 slot. ICH10's SATA controller is not PM-aware. AMD SB700/SB710 SATA controller is likely to be PM-aware (command-based). The new P55 chipset (is to; Q1 2010?) supports FIS-based PM aware SATA two ports, but the processor is pricey (the cheapest Core i5 750 is $196).

NFLnut

09-19-09, 01:54 AM

(I did run a quick search for the 4890 in this thread .. I just figured someone would have already asked this question, but ..)

What is the favorite ATI 4890 card these days? I see Newegg has the Asus EAH4890 and the XFX HD-489A ZDDC that are currently the highest rated cards, but they each only have about 30 ratings. The XFX HD-489A-ZDFC has a slightly lower rating, but that is with almost 200 ratings, and there are always going to be a few haters for whatever reasons.

So .. aside from the fact that I can't tell the difference between the two XFX boards, what's the hot 4890 card now for around $200-$225? I'm going to pair this with the Premium Intel/Intel setup and the i7 (substituting the Thermaltake DH102 for size reasons .. I was going to use the Moncaso 972 but it won't accept the LG BD-R .. thanks to renethx for bringing the Thermaltake to my attention).

Oh .. and I was intrigued by the 58xx, but after further review AND the fact that I may rarely if ever ame with this rig, I am going to save money on the card and go with the 4890. The only thing I want to make certain of is that I have audio passthrough and HDMI. Do any of these top 4890's have component out as well?

David O

09-19-09, 08:10 AM

If you "rarely if ever game" then go with a lower power, lower heat card. The 4890 is fairly juicy. Any of the 4xxx cards will do HD video with HDMI audio passthrough. Consider going for a 46xx if you never game, or maybe a 4850 if you do.

Marc_G

09-19-09, 01:44 PM

Why is the one that doesn't support Crossfire cheaper?

What's your question? If you are talking about gaming, then there are lots of better cards for this purpose.

No gaming interest. I'm considering buying one of these at some point. I've got a 4550 (fanless) in my HTPC now and it's working great, but my desktop PC currently has an old HD 3450 in it, and it is truly awful. I'm thinking maybe move the 4550 to the desktop and get one of these 4670 cards for the HTPC. Just a thought. No urgency. Might wait for the 5XXX series.

I just noticed the two cards seem similar but one supports crossfire, but is yet cheaper. Struck me as odd.

Marc

renethx

09-19-09, 02:03 PM

No gaming interest. I'm considering buying one of these at some point. I've got a 4550 (fanless) in my HTPC now and it's working great, but my desktop PC currently has an old HD 3450 in it, and it is truly awful. I'm thinking maybe move the 4550 to the desktop and get one of these 4670 cards for the HTPC. Just a thought. No urgency. Might wait for the 5XXX series.

I just noticed the two cards seem similar but one supports crossfire, but is yet cheaper. Struck me as odd.

Marc
All three 4550 (http://www1.sapphiretech.com/us/products/products_overview.php?gpid=285), 4670 512MB (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=270) and 4670 1GB (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=269) support CrossFireX.

nickman789

09-19-09, 02:39 PM

Check the characterization of each system at the beginning of the section. Expandability depends on the case (low-profile or full-height) and the form factor of the mb. With microATX and a 2-slot discrete graphics card, you can add only one PCI Express x1 card and one PCI card. So choose them carefully.

Check the feature table for HDMI audio. ASUS or Auzentech card is necessary if you want to bitstream HD audio.

These DAS units require a "PM-aware" SATA controller (such a controller PCI Express x1 card is bundled with each unit). So this occupies another PCI Express x1 slot. ICH10's SATA controller is not PM-aware. AMD SB700/SB710 SATA controller is likely to be PM-aware (command-based). The new P55 chipset (is to; Q1 2010?) supports FIS-based PM aware SATA two ports, but the processor is pricey (the cheapest Core i5 750 is $196).

Thanks for all of your help Renethx. Sorry for the simple questions. I have one last one. With the ASUS or Auzentech, do you have the capability to run only one HDMI cord from my PC to my reciever?

Thanks again.

renethx

09-19-09, 02:51 PM

With the ASUS or Auzentech, do you have the capability to run only one HDMI cord from my PC to my reciever?
Yes, one HDMI cable carries both video and audio.

Beta Tester

09-19-09, 04:38 PM

renethx

09-19-09, 08:12 PM

I went all over town today, and I could not find a Sapphire 4670 with on-board HDMI output anywhere, not the old style nor the new ones. Maybe they are not shipping the new ones into Canada yet?

Not that I wasted any time - they were spraying my yard, so I didn't want to be home anyways.
Newegg.ca is selling them (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&Manufactory=1561&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045).

C E Jones

09-19-09, 08:28 PM

Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4 with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 has been discontinued. But Sapphire just released two new HD 4670 DDR3 cards with Aero Cooling Accelero L2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&Manufactory=1561&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045) that I recommend now.

Any idea why this card was discontinued? I'm asking because I bought it for my HTPC, which I built 4 months ago and, although it worked until 3 days ago, it suddenly died on me at that time. Every time I booted up I just got a "no signal" message on my plasma TV via HDMI, and just got a blank screen when I tried an lcd connected via VGA. I RMA'd it and shipped it back for replacement yesterday.

Funnily enough, when I googled "Radeon HD 4670 problems," I cam across a thread on another forum about someone who had the exact same problem, right down to the 4-month life-span. It just stopped sending a signal. (you can read the thread at http://www.techsupportforum.com/hardware-support/video-card-support/399153-ati-radeon-hd-4670-problem.html) I also noticed that the fan on mine wasn't spinning anymore, and found other cases of the fans on these cards stopping.

So I was wondering if the card was discontinued because a lot of people have been having problems with it, or for some other reason?

Beta Tester

09-19-09, 10:01 PM

Newegg.ca is selling them (http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&Subcategory=48&Description=&Type=&N=2010380048&srchInDesc=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&OEMMark=0&Manufactory=1561&PropertyCodeValue=679%3A44045).

On that page there are 3 models listed, but the bottom one is the slowest (873MHz) but yet the most expensive. Is it because it is the old model?

Anyways, I was able to find that one locally, so I look forward to trying it out.

[Edit] It appears that the one I bought (and appears at the bottom of the URL above) uses DDR3 memory instead of GDDR3. What is the difference between them?

renethx

09-20-09, 12:30 AM

Any idea why this card was discontinued? I'm asking because I bought it for my HTPC, which I built 4 months ago and, although it worked until 3 days ago, it suddenly died on me at that time. Every time I booted up I just got a "no signal" message on my plasma TV via HDMI, and just got a blank screen when I tried an lcd connected via VGA. I RMA'd it and shipped it back for replacement yesterday.

Funnily enough, when I googled "Radeon HD 4670 problems," I cam across a thread on another forum about someone who had the exact same problem, right down to the 4-month life-span. It just stopped sending a signal. (you can read the thread at http://www.techsupportforum.com/hardware-support/video-card-support/399153-ati-radeon-hd-4670-problem.html) I also noticed that the fan on mine wasn't spinning anymore, and found other cases of the fans on these cards stopping.

So I was wondering if the card was discontinued because a lot of people have been having problems with it, or for some other reason?
Usually each model is manufactured in a certain amount of quantities in a short period of time, then automatically discontinued if all cards are sold out. Each manufacturer designs a couple of models for each chip (e.g. HD 4670) during the lifespan of the chip (1-2 years). This is common in the mb and graphics card industry. Sapphire is no exception.

As for the fan issue, each manufacturer designs its own PCB and cooling solution. If there are lots of complaints about a particular model, then the design of that model may be defective. Otherwise no meaningful conclusion can be drawn. And I haven't seen a complaint about the fan in the Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB Arctic Cooling cooler model. (Have you, except for yourself?)

Tijs_Verwest

09-20-09, 01:42 AM

is the AMD Athlon II X2 245 way superior to the pentium dual core e5300? :confused:

renethx

09-20-09, 01:45 AM

On that page there are 3 models listed, but the bottom one is the slowest (873MHz) but yet the most expensive. Is it because it is the old model?

Anyways, I was able to find that one locally, so I look forward to trying it out.

[Edit] It appears that the one I bought (and appears at the bottom of the URL above) uses DDR3 memory instead of GDDR3. What is the difference between them?
Confusion on memory clock is common because of DDR (double data rate). Memory I/O bus clock (MHz) and the data transfer rate (MTps [mega transfer per second]) of each models are:

- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 512MB/1GB Arctic Cooling models: 800MHz/1600MTps
- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 1GB 1-slot cooler model: 873MHz/1746MTps. (Look here (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=184).)

So 873MHz is the fastest.

I am sure these cards use DDR3 instead of GDDR3 (here (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0912/kaigai_03l.gif); now GDDR3 is very rare).

renethx

09-20-09, 01:49 AM

is the AMD Athlon II X2 245 way superior to the pentium dual core e5300? :confused:
No, they are more or less of the same performance.

C E Jones

09-20-09, 02:16 AM

Usually each model is manufactured in a certain amount of quantities in a short period of time, then automatically discontinued if all cards are sold out. Each manufacturer designs a couple of models for each chip (e.g. HD 4670) during the lifespan of the chip (1-2 years). This is common in the mb and graphics card industry. Sapphire is no exception.

As for the fan issue, each manufacturer designs its own PCB and cooling solution. If there are lots of complaints about a particular model, then the design of that model may be defective. Otherwise no meaningful conclusion can be drawn. And I haven't seen a complaint about the fan in the Sapphire HD 4670 GDDR4 512MB Arctic Cooling cooler model. (Have you, except for yourself?)

Thanks rene, that clears things up. Because I had a problem with the card, I was wondering if the discontinuing might shed some light on it, but looks like it's just business as usual. Guess I just got a bad egg. I've come across a few complaints about fans on 4670 cards, but most of them don't specify the company, so I don't know if they were Sapphires with GDDR4.

The funny thing is that the card was only 4 months old and I had no problems with it until it suddenly died on me. Go figure. Just shipped it back yesterday, I hope Sapphire doesn't take too long sending the replacement.

Beta Tester

09-20-09, 03:15 AM

Confusion on memory clock is common because of DDR (double data rate). Memory I/O bus clock (MHz) and the data transfer rate (MTps [mega transfer per second]) of each models are:

- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 512MB/1GB Arctic Cooling models: 800MHz/1600MTps
- Sapphire HD 4670 DDR3 1GB 1-slot cooler model: 873MHz/1746MTps. (Look here (http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?psn=000101&pid=184).)

So 873MHz is the fastest.

I am sure these cards use DDR3 instead of GDDR3 (here (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0912/kaigai_03l.gif); now GDDR3 is very rare).

Looks like I got the best one of the 3. Thanks for all your help! I am looking forward to replacing the Nvidia 8500GT whose picture quality I have never been happy with.

I've come across a few complaints about fans on 4670 cards, but most of them don't specify the company, so I don't know if they were Sapphires with GDDR4.

I wonder if there is a way of being alerted if the fan on the video card stops spinning?

MomboX

09-20-09, 04:55 AM

My recommendation is sell both GeForce 8600 GT and Sondigo inferno, and buy Sapphire Radeon HD 4670 or 4550 (as on page 85). (4670 is better in PQ, of course.) Connect the HDMI connector to Onkyo 805. Then you will get multichannel LPCM (lossless) audio from any audio source over HDMI. Using Onkyo 805 with S/PDIF or analog is a waste.

Your mb and CPU should be fine.

Would it be better audio and PQ wise to upgrade to the 4670 or to go with your low-budget AMD/nvidia builds mobo and switch to on board everything? I think my current amd cpu will work in that one. New GPU route is the cheapest but I am open to a new mobo.

edit: Quick addition here - On my TV (sony A3000) the htpc sometimes has trouble getting the tv it power up depending on its input and what the htpc is doing. I use to just reset the htpc and when it rebooted the tv would power up. Now i have a second monitor hooked to it and if i turn it on it will make the TV boot up. Is there a fix to this or an easier way? I dont like the extra monitor in my theater. It doesnt happen often though I dont know what exactly causes it sometimes the screen just doesnt come up.

renethx

09-20-09, 06:36 AM

Would it be better audio and PQ wise to upgrade to the 4670 or to go with your low-budget AMD/nvidia builds mobo and switch to on board everything? I think my current amd cpu will work in that one. New GPU route is the cheapest but I am open to a new mobo.

edit: Quick addition here - On my TV (sony A3000) the htpc sometimes has trouble getting the tv it power up depending on its input and what the htpc is doing. I use to just reset the htpc and when it rebooted the tv would power up. Now i have a second monitor hooked to it and if i turn it on it will make the TV boot up. Is there a fix to this or an easier way? I dont like the extra monitor in my theater. It doesnt happen often though I dont know what exactly causes it sometimes the screen just doesnt come up.
Adding HD 4670 is the best way (in PQ). No need to upgrade CPU/mb (unless there are specific features you want).

Gefen HDMI Detective Plus (http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=8005)? I am not sure if this fixes your issue.

nsahoo

09-20-09, 09:47 AM

renethx

09-20-09, 10:13 AM

I am planning to convert a dell inspiron 530 to a HTPC. It has a eVGA e-GeForce 8600 GT 256MB card on it--which I think would be adequate for driving a TV that is 480P/1080i. I just need a DVI to hdmi cable. The problem is audio. There is no digital audio out--not even on the board. Can anyone suggest a decent inexpensive sound card to go with it? BTW, the audio is going straight to a denon 1610 receiver. Thanks.
- DIAMOND XtremeSound XS71 7.1/24 bit PCI Card, $25
- Turtle Beach Audio Advantage Micro USB Sound Card (stereo LPCM is limited to 48kHz), $24

But, as S/PDIF is limited to stereo LPCM and DD/DTS, you'd better replace the graphics card with a graphics card with HDMI audio supporting multichannel LPCM and DD/DTS.

- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4550 DDR3 512MB HDMI, $45
- SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 4670 DDR3 1GB, $70.

nsahoo

09-20-09, 10:22 AM

renethx

09-20-09, 11:13 AM

Thanks for your quick reply. It seems more and more that I should chuck the video card and go with something current. I guess I eliminated two details: I kinda wanted to keep the current ubuntu OS on it. So, I'd prefer an nvidia card. Any similar options on on the nvidia side? The other is if I have to switch to vista, I at least want to use a 64 bit version. Is there good 64 bit driver for the DIAMOND XtremeSound XS71 ? Thanks again!

Edit: If I do move to vista: how is Asus EAH 4650 @ newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121340)
G210 (replacing 8500 GT/9400 GT) and GT220 (between 9500 GT and 9600 GT) are expected in October which support multichannel LPCM HDMI audio. This thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1161405).

Not sure of a 64-bit driver.

HD 4650 should be good but the quietness of this model is unknown

vamovie

09-20-09, 12:08 PM

hello fellows
i have this hp laptop
probook 4510s
it comes with Intel mobile 3 series graphic card chip

it won't play my bluray iso thru cyberlink pdvd
i download and ran the hd/bd advisor everything is good except graphic card driver
i download and install the latest driver

what am i missing?
please help
by the way it plays the bd structure fine with pdvd and wmedia player
thanks in advance

TroubleMan

09-20-09, 12:50 PM

I've taken some of the advice I've read on this thread and I've come down to three HTPC setups. I'm still looking at different setups and I am willing to move up in down in price (faster/slower CPU, video card change, etc.), the issue comes down to the features of each system I guess. All the systems are nearly identical, except for case, video card and optical drive.

HTPC Setup 1
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: Apex MI-008 Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply ($39.99)
Optical Drive: LG Black 8X Blu-Ray Reader/16X LightScribe DVD±R DVD Burner ($104.99) or Samsung SH-S223B 22x DVD Burner ($27.99)
Video Card: Sapphire 100274L Radeon HD 4350 1GB 64-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($39.99)
Total: $549.93 (Blu-Ray) or $472.93 (DVD)

HTPC Setup 2
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: SilverStone SG05 Mini-ITX Computer Case with SFX 300W Power Supply (80 PLUS) ($99.99)
Optical Drive: SilverStone TOB02 Blu-Ray/DVD-RW ($149.99) or Sony AD-7590S-01 Optiarc Slim 8X DVD±R Burner ($48.99)
Video Card: HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($62.99)
Total: $677.93 (Blu-Ray) or $576.93 (DVD)

HTPC Setup 3
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: SilverStone SG06 Mini-ITX Computer Case with SFX 300W Power Supply (80 PLUS) ($129.99)
Optical Drive: SilverStone TOB02 Blu-Ray/DVD-RW ($149.99) or Sony AD-7590S-01 Optiarc Slim 8X DVD±R Burner ($48.99)
Video Card: HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($62.99)
Total: $707.93 (Blu-Ray) or $606.93 (DVD)

One thing I'll probably pass on is the Blu-Ray drive, but I included it anyway. I think I'll be getting an HDTV in November or December, but I don't think I'll really jump into the Blu-Ray market. My thinking is that the Blu-Ray drive can be a future upgrade, which will definitely help drop the cost of the system.

My concern really comes down to video card and power. I know I've been given some advice, and I was hoping that some may have a little bit more information. I'm not a gamer, but I do have some games. I would like to put my all my emulator/ROMs on my machine, and I'm thinking HTPC Setup 1 won't be a problem in this regard. However, I do have some games that may be a little more taxing, and I'd like to play them on the machine (although I really wonder if I will). The most advanced game I can see being played on this machine is Half-Life 2 (I have considered getting GTA4). I don't need to have the highest resolution with all the features turned on, but I don't want to be forced into playing things at very low resolution and still have issues with frame rate. I think that's where the Radeon 4350 is really weak, a little too slow and the 64-bit interface is probably a source of bottleneck. I would love to toss the Radeon 4650 into HTPC Setup 1, but I'm wondering if it will fit.

This kind of puts me into picking HTPC 2 or 3. I've elected to go with a fanless video card, but how much is fan noise a factor? During a game I don't think I'm very concerned with fan noise, but I would hate to hear the whir of a fan while I'm watching video. Can anyone speak on the fan noise of the 4650/4670 cards? I've been looking for a card with a component output adapter. ATI cards have DVI to Component adapter, but the 4000 Series isn't listed on their compatibility list. I've read a comment here or there about forcing component out on the 4000 series cards, but nothing truly concrete.

You'll notice that HTPC Setup 2 and 3 have different cases; Silent PC Review says the SilverStone SG06 is quieter than the SG05, but I'm wondering if this will really matter for a box that is sitting under my TV.

There is another possible setup, which is probably the ideal yet impossible choice, but I don't even know if it is feasible:
HTPC Setup 4
Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)
CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor ($69.99)
Memory: G.SKILL F2-6400CL4D-4GBPK 4GB DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit ($69.99)
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB 3.5" ($84.99)
Case: Apex MI-008 Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply ($39.99)
Optical Drive: Samsung SH-S223B 22x DVD Burner ($27.99)
Video Card: HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 ($62.99)
PSU: Nexus 300W Quiet Power Supply 19.8 dB ($39.95) or Nexus 430W Compact ATX Quiet Power Supply ($79.95)
Total: $535.88 (300W) or $575.88 (430W)

I can put in the better video card and swap for a 300W power supply, and it is still cheaper than HTPC Setup 2. New Egg says the recommended power supply is 400W or greater, but I wonder if this really is the case.

A very long winded post, but it's all about decisions, decisions, decisions. :D

Tijs_Verwest

09-20-09, 01:20 PM

No, they are more or less of the same performance.
But in the end which is better ? sorry but i really wanna know :o , and are these processors way superior to an overclocked atom 330 @ 2.0 ghz?

mayest

09-20-09, 02:10 PM

One thing I'll probably pass on is the Blu-Ray drive, but I included it anyway. I think I'll be getting an HDTV in November or December, but I don't think I'll really jump into the Blu-Ray market. My thinking is that the Blu-Ray drive can be a future upgrade, which will definitely help drop the cost of the system.

<snip>

I've elected to go with a fanless video card, but how much is fan noise a factor? During a game I don't think I'm very concerned with fan noise, but I would hate to hear the whir of a fan while I'm watching video. Can anyone speak on the fan noise of the 4650/4670 cards?
With respect to the Blu-Ray drive, why not do it now? It will be a perfectly functional DVD reader/burner and it would spare you from having to open the case later. You are almost certainly going to want it at some point.

Regarding video card fan noise, I guess that depends on where you put the PC. I found that the Sapphire 4670 that I bought has a very loud fan to my ears. I replaced it with an HIS fanless model and I'm much happier.

TroubleMan

09-20-09, 03:19 PM

With respect to the Blu-Ray drive, why not do it now? It will be a perfectly functional DVD reader/burner and it would spare you from having to open the case later. You are almost certainly going to want it at some point.I know I will want it at some point, but I'm not exactly sure at what point. I can easily do without a Blu-Ray drive for another one or two years, so that's why I'm considering waiting and putting a drive in later, prices will definitely be lower.

Regarding video card fan noise, I guess that depends on where you put the PC. I found that the Sapphire 4670 that I bought has a very loud fan to my ears. I replaced it with an HIS fanless model and I'm much happier.I think I will stick with fanless, thanks for the info.

It looks like I'll go with the HIS H465PS512P Radeon HD 4650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2; however, I might take the HIS H467PS1GH Radeon HD 4670 iSilence4 1GB 128-bit DDR3 if I decide to pull the trigger on an LCD TV, which means component out won't matter.

MomboX

09-20-09, 04:30 PM

Alright I am going to nab on of those 4670's for 70 bucks. Then save up for a bluray optical drive. I think I am going to try and get one of those LG drives that play both hddvd and bluray.

Random question has anyone had to buy a HDMI switcher? I am thinking I will probably need one soon and would like one my Harmony 880 can control. Need probably 3-5 ports.

LeftFootRed

09-20-09, 05:30 PM

Rene,

I'm looking at the DG45ID in place of the P5Q-EM on the midrange mAtx build. This is based on a recent, very favorable review that the teething issues on the intel board seem to be resolved. Since the ability to do any gaming is far secondary to video playback quality for me, I wonder if I should also forgo the discreet graphics on the recommended build. Any thoughts?

I can't post links yet but the article is on MissingRemote (published two weeks ago).

Thank you

Davinleeds

09-20-09, 06:21 PM

What would cause no support. I finally got 7.1 audio with latest Realtek.

I'm using http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128395Gig 785 ATX

With http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121274 to get 7.1 - Finally.

I checked the bios is latest
I tried different drivers, 9.6, 9.7, Gigabyte site has brought me back to 9.9 since I have W7100 installed.

TMT 160 plays fine - doesn't give me any hdcp not supported.

Thanks for any ideas.

mingus

09-20-09, 06:58 PM

How do you get most of your h.264 (.mkv) files to display subtitles? using Windows 7 RTM. VSfilter and Radlight Filter Manager?

vinha916

09-21-09, 12:42 AM

hi renethx,

I am gonna build as your midrange but exclude the graphic card and using onboard for HDMI. The reason for that is I am just browsing net and downlaod movie and watch movie straight up from HTPC. No gaming at all. What do you think?

* CPU: Core 2 Duo E7500 2.93GHz 3MB L2 LGA775, $113.
* CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 風神鍛 (Geminii S) RR-CCH-PBU1-GP, $32.
* Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H LGA775 GeForce 9400 mGPU microATX, $130. A cheaper alternative is MSI P7NGM-Digital LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU microATX, $105, which is of better value if you don't need an S/PDIF port and an eSATA port.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1B16K DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $57.
* Graphics Card: ASUS EN9600GT/DI/512MD3 GeForce 9600 GT DDR3 512MB, $77.
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX 450W, $60.
* Case: Antec Fusion Remote Black microATX, with LCD/IR receiver/remote, $140.
* Total Cost: $679

candre23

09-21-09, 02:03 AM

I am just browsing net and downlaod movie and watch movie straight up from HTPC. No gaming at all.If that's all you're doing, then a low end system is perfectly acceptable. That E7500 will be wasted just browsing the web and watching movies. Save $50 and go with a E5300.

tlguapo

09-21-09, 03:05 AM

I finally got my HTPC all set up and am very glad I went with a 4670. I noticed the display on my receiver (Pioneer SC-05) indicates it is a PCM source. I'm assuming this is normal?

In any event, I'm looking for some recommendations on interfaces. I've played around with hulu's desktop for a while. I've jumped into media center (vista 64) and the netflix option in there is pretty cool. I was curious if anyone has any experience with Boxee and if so, do they like / dislike it? There a big difference between that and hulu?

renethx

09-21-09, 06:52 AM

But in the end which is better ? sorry but i really wanna know :o , and are these processors way superior to an overclocked atom 330 @ 2.0 ghz?
As for video playback (SD and HD, DXVA on or off), either one is good. CPU usage of Athlon II X2 245 is slightly lower than E5300 because of higher clock, but there is zero difference in picture quality. An Intel system generally consumes less power at video playback, the difference is only 5-10W at most. You'd better choose the platform considering the total system performance/price, not just CPU.

Atom does not have enough power if DXVA is off.

renethx

09-21-09, 07:02 AM

I found that the Sapphire 4670 that I bought has a very loud fan to my ears.
There are two different coolers in Sapphire HD 4670 cards. In general the 1-slot version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=14-102-842-S03&ISList=14-102-842%2c14-102-842-S02%2c14-102-842-S03%2c14-102-842-S04%2c14-102-842-S05&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16814102842&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=SAPPHIRE%20100256HDMI%20Radeon%20HD%204670%201GB %20128-bit%20GDDR3%20PCI%20Express%202.0%20x16%20HDCP%20Ready%20Cro ssFire%20Supported%20Video%20Card) is loud and the Arctic Cooling cooler 2-slot version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?ISList=14-102-855-Z01%2c14-102-855-Z02%2c14-102-855-Z03%2c14-102-855-Z04%2c14-102-855-Z05&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16814102855&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=SAPPHIRE%20100296HDMI%20Radeon%20HD%204670%201GB %20128-bit%20DDR3%20PCI%20Express%202.0%20x16%20HDCP%20Ready%20%20V ideo%20Card) is very quiet. So need to be careful which version is in question.

renethx

09-21-09, 07:10 AM

Random question has anyone had to buy a HDMI switcher? I am thinking I will probably need one soon and would like one my Harmony 880 can control. Need probably 3-5 ports.
Onkyo 805 has 4 HDMI IN ports. Do you need more?

renethx

09-21-09, 07:29 AM

renethx

09-21-09, 07:35 AM

How do you get most of your h.264 (.mkv) files to display subtitles? using Windows 7 RTM. VSfilter and Radlight Filter Manager?
Which player are you using? DXVA+subtitles is supported only by MPC HomeCinema and MediaPortal.

renethx

09-21-09, 07:37 AM

renethx

09-21-09, 07:48 AM

I finally got my HTPC all set up and am very glad I went with a 4670. I noticed the display on my receiver (Pioneer SC-05) indicates it is a PCM source. I'm assuming this is normal?
What "PCM" means depends on each receiver. Try to play this 8 Channel test files (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/howto/articles/creating71audio.aspx). If you hear sounds from all of your speakers (one by one), then your system is configured fine.

kevm14

09-21-09, 11:59 AM

I can't remember if I've posted this before.

On 1080i ATSC content, like Conan, I've noticed weird smearing on areas of lower contrast detail. Like when Conan is doing his monologue an area of his jacket which is mostly lower contrast shadow detail seems to almost stick on one spot until he moves enough. At first I thought it was from the broadcast or MPEG-2 weirdness but I record everything on Best in VMC which should be a direct dump to the HD, right? I've also played back the content on another machine with no visible issues. 720p ATSC content (my Fox affiliate) does not seem to display this problem.

I also noticed it on the Hitchcock sample clip that comes with VMC. When the character is driving his car down the alley, the low contrast detail of the road in front of him appears to stick in place even though the car is bouncing up and down. I played this back on another machine with no issues.

My VMC machine uses the 4670 and DVI to component adapter. I was considering upgrading my CCC. It uses whatever Dell shipped with the computer. The machine itself uses an i7 920 and has 6 gigs of ram, with Vista Ultimate 64. I just want to make sure it's not a 4670 decoding problem that I'll see in the HTPC I build with this GPU. Thoughts?

djsunyc

09-21-09, 12:22 PM

going by the guide on page 85, i am going to build the mid-range htpc...

but i have a simple question:

this will be my mobo:

ASUS P5Q-EM LGA 775 Intel G45 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

this will be my video card:

SAPPHIRE 100296HDMI Radeon HD 4670 1GB 128-bit DDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready Video Card

i am sending the video to a projector via HDMI. am i safe in assuming the PDIF (optical audio) cable sent from the mobo to my sony 5.1 dolby digital surround sound system will actually play in 5.1?

i've read some places where 5.1 only comes out via HDMI - would that be the case with this setup?

sorry for my newbie question and thanks in advance for the replies.

and if i decide to go with the integrated video card, would the same rules apply? thanks.

Nektarios

09-21-09, 01:28 PM

I'm building an HTPC for movies and web mainly, so I want the best PQ with good sound (HDMI is enough) and ofcourse one that can play *everything* (including 1080p) with not breaking a sweat.

requirements:

1. Be very fast for playback
2. Playback everything without ever hitting 100% cpu
2. Almost totally silenced (I hate noise)
3. Be small and nice looking
4. I plan to buy a new TV 50" with all the bells and whistles so I need it to be able to connect to the HTPC without any problems and make use of the full HD resolution that the tv can offer.

I don't really need a remote controller because I use my iPhone with RemotePAD which is excellent (has some issues though) but I would not say no. I chose a simple mainboard with no iGPU because there was no reason for it as I decided to get a dedicated gfx card.

This is what I have come up with, please tell me what do you think, should I get some different gfx card? Or cpu? what about the case?

* Please note that the prices quoted are from my country (Greece) and, as usually, are more expensive than what you discuss here and that influences differently my decisions.

* CPU: INTEL PENTIUM DUAL CORE E5300 2.60GHZ LGA775 - 800 FSB - BOX, 53.99 € (78.8$)
* CPU Cooler: Stock Intel (I love them they are very quiet and long lasting)
* Motherboard: ASUS P5KPL-AM EPU 45.20 € (65.99$)
* Memory: 2GB PC6400 DDR2 800MHZ 24.50 € (36.5$).
* Graphics Card: ASUS EN9400GT/DI/512MD2 CUDA 512MB PCI-E RETAIL 39.50 € (57.67$).
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, 52 € (75.92$).
* PSU: Corsair VX450W CMPSU-450VX 450W, 80€ ($116.8$).
* Case: Lian Li PC-37B Muse Black 139€ (202.94$). Antec Fusion Remote Black is very expensive i can find it for 270$ and I don't know if it is worth it, that's why I chose the Lian Li, what do you think?
* Total Cost: 434,19 € (633 $)

Thanks!

PS. Would love it if you recommend me some PSU's that are good and quiet

TroubleMan

09-21-09, 01:58 PM

MomboX

09-21-09, 02:02 PM

Onkyo 805 has 4 HDMI IN ports. Do you need more?

Well actually the Onkyo 805 has only 3 hdmi in unless im going crazy. I think the 806 had 4 which would have been perfect. Now if I could get one of those LG bluray/Hddvd drives for my htpc I would probably be alright still

As of now though

I have
PS3
HD-A30
Xbox 360
And the HTPC which atm is connected hdmi into the tv and s/pdif into the reciever but that will change once my 4670 gets here.

GarenT

09-21-09, 06:19 PM

Random question has anyone had to buy a HDMI switcher? I am thinking I will probably need one soon and would like one my Harmony 880 can control. Need probably 3-5 ports.

I keep running into you Mombo ;)

I am using a MonoPrice 4x1 (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=4088&seq=1&format=2)switcher that I am using with my DirecTV box, PS3, HD-DVD and HTPC, and it works great with my Harmony...I am stuck with a non-HDMI receiver so my video goes from my sources to the switcher to the projector...

MomboX

09-21-09, 09:56 PM

Ah excellent suggestion thanks for all the help you have been giving me. I forgot about monoprice. The switcher I was looking at last was 50 bucks I am glad you suggested that one.

Now to decide if I should bite the bullet and just get the lg bluray/hddvd drive so I only need 3 slots or get the switch :)

I think I want the switch though cause even if I have the dual disc drive I think I still will want to use my HDdvd player. I really only want the disc drive for ripping the files not playing the disc.

renethx

09-21-09, 10:16 PM

Tijs_Verwest

09-21-09, 11:47 PM

renethx

09-22-09, 12:32 AM

I think ive finally decided, but i was shocked to learn the cost of my htpc, i wanted to spend like 600 $ , its a mid range htpc but with premium price wtf, any suggestions to lower the price?

CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor 70 $

CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT07-775, $20.

Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX, $140.

Memory:
Crucial Technology BL2KIT25664AA80A 4GB Kit 2GBx2 Ballistix 240-Pin DIMM¿4-4-4-12 Unbuffered NON-ECC DDR2-800 2.0V DDR2 PC2-6400 Memory Module 54 $

HDD: WD Scorpio Blue Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD5000BEVT 500GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive - OEM95 $

Case: Antec ISK 300-65 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case - Retail 90 $, will the included 65w psu be enough? i dont think so, but i REALLY want a small case, i fell in love with the asrock ion, and since then ive wanted something with similar size/look :o

Blu-ray drive: LG Electronics CT10N Slim SATA Blu-Ray Combo Drive - Retail 206 $

Control: Logitech Harmony 510 Advanced Universal Remote Control
$61.17

TOTAL 736 $
In general a smaller system is pricier than a normal size system (MIni-ITX mb, notebook HDD, slim optical drive etc.) (BTW where are you living? Most components you selected are available at much lower prices.)

65W is not enough. But:

SPCR - Antec ISK 300-65 Mini-ITX Case (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article959-page8.html)

Another quibble is the 65W power adapter, which seems underpowered, even if the target motherboards are only low power embedded CPU types. An 80W or 90W adapter would provide greater headroom and flexibility for a wider variety of components. Despite reservations, our test system of a 65W TDP Intel C2D CPU ran without issues

tlguapo

09-22-09, 02:56 AM

There are two different coolers in Sapphire HD 4670 cards. In general the 1-slot version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?CurImage=14-102-842-S03&ISList=14-102-842%2c14-102-842-S02%2c14-102-842-S03%2c14-102-842-S04%2c14-102-842-S05&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16814102842&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=SAPPHIRE%20100256HDMI%20Radeon%20HD%204670%201GB %20128-bit%20GDDR3%20PCI%20Express%202.0%20x16%20HDCP%20Ready%20Cro ssFire%20Supported%20Video%20Card) is loud and the Arctic Cooling cooler 2-slot version (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?ISList=14-102-855-Z01%2c14-102-855-Z02%2c14-102-855-Z03%2c14-102-855-Z04%2c14-102-855-Z05&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16814102855&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=SAPPHIRE%20100296HDMI%20Radeon%20HD%204670%201GB %20128-bit%20DDR3%20PCI%20Express%202.0%20x16%20HDCP%20Ready%20%20V ideo%20Card) is very quiet. So need to be careful which version is in question.

I was kind of worried about fan noise myself and spent a while looking at all the options. For the price, I picked up Gigabyte's version of the 4670 with the Zalman fan attached. It's obviously not a fanless card, but it's about as silent as you can get with a fan cooler.

djsunyc

09-22-09, 09:41 AM

Just connect the optical S/PDIF connector on the rear panel of the mb to the Sony speaker system and you will get stereo PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS. Dolby Digital and DTS are compressed lossy 5.1 audio formats. You can use any graphics card, integrated or discrete.

thanks alot brother.

Tijs_Verwest

09-22-09, 12:28 PM

In general a smaller system is pricier than a normal size system (MIni-ITX mb, notebook HDD, slim optical drive etc.) (BTW where are you living? Most components you selected are available at much lower prices.)

65W is not enough. But:

SPCR - Antec ISK 300-65 Mini-ITX Case (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article959-page8.html)

I live in latin america =( but a cousin who lives in the us is gonna buy the parts for me in online stores ( new egg, amazon)

Since 65 w is not enough i was thinking on getting the COOLER MASTER Elite 100 RC-100-KKP3-GP instead 70$ which comes with a 150 psu but it has no fans, damn i cant find anything perfect =(

nithos

09-22-09, 01:27 PM

Any one have any luck with a ASUS Essentio CS5111-AP007?

E2200 (Dual Core 2.2Ghz)
4GB DDR2
Intel GMA X3500

This would be primarily for a Xbox/XBMC replacement to play 720p mkvs.

varmatheone

09-22-09, 01:42 PM

TroubleMan

09-22-09, 04:01 PM

I am looking for a BD-ROM recommendation to watch bluray movies.

Anyone has experience with lite-on 4x drives? This guide lists mostly LG drives, why are they preferred.

Also, are the 8x drives worth the $30+ upgrade for watching/ripping blu-ray movies?I can't speak on brand preference, but I think it was mentioned that the faster Blu-Ray speed was better for doing something else besides video playback, but I'm not totally sure.

digitlnoize

09-22-09, 04:39 PM

I just don't see a reason to use this slow 2.5GHz processor in the high-end system for which I assume performance is more important than lower power consumption (this is just my assumption). For mid-range, Athlon II X4 630 2.8GHz, $122, is a good choice. If you want to save power sacrificing performance, then Athlon II X4 605e 2.3GHz 45W is there (released today). Here are comparions between Athlon II X4 605e, Athlon II X4 630 and Phenom II X3 720.

Hmm...well thanks for those! I was hoping to go for a low power system to keep down cost, heat, noise, etc. That being said, I still wanted a little umph under the hood. The 905e seemed to be doing halfway well on its comparisons on Tom's and the like, but I haven't REALLY dove into it yet, as I'm in med school and we're having some crazy hard tests right now...

I'll keep thinking on it, and will probably wait until Xmas...sigh...

mustangjoe

09-22-09, 05:47 PM

Hi Renethx,
I noticed that Newegg has discontinued/deactivated the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H MB. Are there any other HTPC micro-atx Gigabyte-Intel board(s) you could recommend? Thanks.

stephenmmartin

09-22-09, 06:00 PM

renethx

09-22-09, 06:23 PM

I am looking for a BD-ROM recommendation to watch bluray movies.

Anyone has experience with lite-on 4x drives? This guide lists mostly LG drives, why are they preferred.

Also, are the 8x drives worth the $30+ upgrade for watching/ripping blu-ray movies?
If your only purpose is play BD movies, LITE-ON x4 should be a good choice.

A faster drive is better for ripping.

renethx

09-22-09, 06:30 PM

Hi Renethx,
I noticed that Newegg has discontinued/deactivated the GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H MB. Are there any other HTPC micro-atx Gigabyte-Intel board(s) you could recommend? Thanks.
Still available at several stores (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=ga-e7aum-ds2h&cid=12470165690777238135&sa=button#p).

renethx

09-22-09, 06:39 PM

Ran into a problem I have a
THERMALTAKE Mozart SX case

I purchased a ati 4870 video card for it but its not even a close fit.
I need another video card any suggestions.
Will a 4850 1 slot card fit in this case ????
The card length is:

- 4870: 9.45"
- 4850: 9.25"

(excluding PCI Express power connectors). You can measure the case size and should know the answer. 4850 is power-hungry (40W at idle, 120W at load) and not recommended for a smaller case (usually bad ventilation).

stephenmmartin

09-22-09, 06:55 PM

The card length is:

- 4870: 9.45"
- 4850: 9.25"

(excluding PCI Express power connectors). You can measure the case size and should know the answer. 4850 is power-hungry (40W at idle, 120W at load) and not recommended for a smaller case (usually bad ventilation).

Its not the length that is the problem it is the height. As you can see here from this picture http://www.hardcoreware.net/image.php?src=5315&ts=1162136647

I figure there is 1 1/2 inches to play with there.

What would you recommand?? I would like to have some abilty to play games but if that has to go out the window then so be it.

renethx

09-22-09, 07:06 PM

Its not the length that is the problem it is the height. As you can see here from this picture http://www.hardcoreware.net/image.php?src=5315&ts=1162136647

I figure there is 1 1/2 inches to play with there.

What would you recommand?? I would like to have some abilty to play games but if that has to go out the window then so be it.
Basically all the grahics card PCB's without the PCI Express x16 connector (including the original HD 4850 1-slot card) are 98mm tall. If this is too tall, then you should choose a low-profile card. The best low-profile 1-slot gaming card is this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162016).

djsunyc

09-22-09, 10:35 PM

hey, one more question:

in the low-end intel/intel shopping list:

Intel/Intel

System

* CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775, $64.
* CPU Cooler: Stock cooler, $0.
* Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM LGA775 Intel G45 chipset microATX, $125. A cheaper alternative is Intel DG45ID (BOXDG45ID) LGA775 Intel G45 chipset microATX, $100.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $32.
* Graphics Card: Intel GMA X4500HD (integrated in the chipset), $0.
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
* PSU: 80 PLUS 350W ATX PSU (included in the case), $0
* Case: Antec NSK1480 microATX, $95.
* Total Cost: $386

Remarks

* BD playback under Windows XP is not supported in this system due to the chipset driver limitation.

----------------

is BD playback an issue if using windows vista premium?

Tijs_Verwest

09-22-09, 10:57 PM

renethx

09-23-09, 02:09 AM

hey, one more question:

in the low-end intel/intel shopping list:

----------------

is BD playback an issue if using windows vista premium?
No.

renethx

09-23-09, 02:14 AM

Can someone recommend a mini itx case just as small as the Antec ISK 300-65 or the COOLER MASTER Elite 100 RC-100-KKP3-GP ? i love them but the antec comes only with a 65w psu and the cooler master has no fans!! wtf :mad:
- Apex MW-100 (http://www.apextechusa.com/products.asp?pID=181): 2.8" x 8.7" x 7.3"
- Antec ISK 300-65 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129068): 3.8" x 8.7" x 12.9" (replace the 65W PSU with a better one (http://www.mini-box.com/Power-Supplies-Kits).)
- Mini-Box M350 (http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure): 2.4" x 8.3" x 7.6"

IsLNdbOi

09-23-09, 04:41 AM

Motherboard: Zotac GF9300-G-E Mini ITX Wi-Fi ($139.99)

A very long winded post, but it's all about decisions, decisions, decisions. :D

How do you know the GF9300-G-E is going to be $139.99? Or is that just your estimation of the price?

TroubleMan

09-23-09, 08:56 AM

How do you know the GF9300-G-E is going to be $139.99? Or is that just your estimation of the price?It's just a price estimate, I have no idea if they're going to raise the price. I hope they don't.

nalooti

09-23-09, 09:38 AM

Hi renethx, all,
In a previous discussion I asked recommendations for a system with the following characteristics :

- very simple and small and silent box with 2 or 3 SATA slots just for backing up my data
- I don’t need any RAID function ; I just want to backup my data in a central place
- I don’t want a Linux and/or a constrained OS as seen on various NAS where installing a soft is not straightforward. I want to install a full XP/Windows7 and to have the ability to install any program on it. In other words I want a small PC
- I want this backup station to be able to stream contents via SMB, NFS or UPnP. Being a PC, I’d have lots of choice to install the UPnP server I want. This is another reason for my previous statement (want a PC)
- I want the backup station to be small, low power and dedicated only to sharing/streaming, plus some more tasks like Emule, web/photo/music/surveillance(IPcamera) server over the WAN.

you recommended the following configuration :
- Case & PSU: Chenbro ES34069 (with 120W or 180W PSU) (1 internal 2.5" bay + 4 hot-swap 3.5" bays), $175
- Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $32
- CPU: Celeron Dual-Core E3200 2.40GHz 1MB L2 LGA775, $43. (Or Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775, $63.)
- Motherboard: Intel DG45FC (BOXDG45FC) LGA775 Intel G45 chipset Mini-ITX, $115

Now, I’d like to ask :
1/ Is the Chenbro box silent enough to be in the living room ? Can I install an SSD on it ?

2/ I checked the motherboard has an HDMI connector and Intel says it can read HD contents
2A/ Do you confirm that this config can read HD contents smoothly ?
2B/ Do you know the load on the CPU when reading HD contents and if it can generate too much heat so the fan will spin fast generating too much noise ?
2C/ Does the HDMI on the MB support audio ?

3/ I think it is clear by the above questions what is my goal. Actually, rather than having a separate midrange HTPC and a backup station, I’d like to know if I can use the backup station (above config) as a low-end HTPC also.
So based on you answers for the above questions either I can keep the above config and use it as backup station as well as a lowend HTPC, or should I upgrade the CPU (or other components) from the above config in order to do it. In this case would you please give me the right config ?

4/ Why not the first core 2 duo cpu, for example E7300 (2.66GHz, 65W, 1066MHz bus which is < 1333MHz as must be with that MB) ? Core 2 Duo must be better than Pentium, No?!

thanks for your help
nalooti

Nektarios

09-23-09, 09:46 AM

renethx

09-23-09, 10:41 AM

Now, I’d like to ask :
1/ Is the Chenbro box silent enough to be in the living room ? Can I install an SSD on it ?

2/ I checked the motherboard has an HDMI connector and Intel says it can read HD contents
2A/ Do you confirm that this config can read HD contents smoothly ?
2B/ Do you know the load on the CPU when reading HD contents and if it can generate too much heat so the fan will spin fast generating too much noise ?
2C/ Does the HDMI on the MB support audio ?

3/ I think it is clear by the above questions what is my goal. Actually, rather than having a separate midrange HTPC and a backup station, I’d like to know if I can use the backup station (above config) as a low-end HTPC also.
So based on you answers for the above questions either I can keep the above config and use it as backup station as well as a lowend HTPC, or should I upgrade the CPU (or other components) from the above config in order to do it. In this case would you please give me the right config ?

4/ Why not the first core 2 duo cpu, for example E7300 (2.66GHz, 65W, 1066MHz bus which is < 1333MHz as must be with that MB) ? Core 2 Duo must be better than Pentium, No?!
1. Yes, the system can be very quiet. You just need to adjust fan speeds (by fan controllers). SSD is no problem.

2. DG45FC supports BD playback (with hardware decode acceleration, hence smooth) and multichannel LPCM audio over HDMI. CPU usage during BD playback is very low (usually < 30% with Celeron Dual Core) and you don't have to worry about heat.

3. You can use the system for dual purpose: backup and HTPC. You can choose Pentium Dual-Core or Core 2 Duo if you need more CPU power (e.g. software DVD upscaling, video re-encoding).

In case you separate a backup and a HTPC, anther good mb is DQ45EK (a business oriented Mini-ITX mb). Graphics of DQ45EK does not support hardware deocode acceleration for HD contents. A quick comparison is here (http://ark.intel.com/Compare.aspx?ids=34685,34688,).

renethx

09-23-09, 10:54 AM

I'm between these two cases:

Antec remote fusion black $ 248
Lian Li pc-37b $ 204

I have Lian Li cases on all my desktops (home & work) and I love them, they are top quality and this one particular is low-profile and I think is more beautiful than the Antec.

Antec on the other hand has more features (remote, lcd etc) and is a little taller which means more space. But it's more expensive and not as beautiful as Lian Li.

Which one should I buy?
Nobody can tell you which one to buy. You will have more options of expansion cards with Antec (for example there is no low-profile HD 4670 graphics card). Antec is much better in cooling (so you can use a quad-core processor comfortably inside Antec). Some prefer a low-profile case because of compactness. Lian Li is surely a beautiful case ... etc.

nalooti

09-23-09, 10:59 AM

3. You can use the system for dual purpose: backup and HTPC. You can choose Pentium Dual-Core or Core 2 Duo if you need more CPU power (e.g. software DVD upscaling, video re-encoding).

Thanks really much for the quick answer;

I'd rather choose the Core 2 Duo but which one???
From E7300 to E8600, they're all at 65W although with different frequency. Does that mean the amount of generated heat is the same ? Just how to compare them???

Would I be able to add a big fan on the CPU heatsink or is the original good enough ?

Can I add an external USB TVtuner card able to capture digital only (just as a PVR) ? I don't think it'll overload the processor since it won't encode (digital-only).

nalooti

renethx

09-23-09, 11:10 AM

Thanks really much for the quick answer;

I'd rather choose the Core 2 Duo but which one???
From E7300 to E8600, they're all at 65W although with different frequency. Does that mean the amount of generated heat is the same ? Just how to compare them???

Would I be able to add a big fan on the CPU heatsink or is the original good enough ?

Can I add an external USB TVtuner card able to capture digital only (just as a PVR) ? I don't think it'll overload the processor since it won't encode (digital-only).

nalooti
All of the current Celeron Dual-Core, Pentium Dual-Core and Core 2 Duo processors consume 25W-35W at load despite TDP 65W (so the stock fan is usually good enough). Basically the size of L2 cache is the main factor of performance, power consumption and price differences. IMO E7xxx is a good compromise.

Yes, you can add a USB TV tuner. Check HDTV PC Tuner Guide (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/index.html) > best pc tuner.

nalooti

09-23-09, 11:47 AM

All of the current Celeron Dual-Core, Pentium Dual-Core and Core 2 Duo processors consume 25W-35W at load despite TDP 65W (so the stock fan is usually good enough). Basically the size of L2 cache is the main factor of performance, power consumption and price differences. IMO E7xxx is a good compromise.

Yes, you can add a USB TV tuner. Check HDTV PC Tuner Guide (http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/index.html) > best pc tuner.

The Chenbro's external PSU is rated 180W. Is that enough ? I ask this because even if the CPU doesn't go above 35W, I have no idea (no spec) about the MB power consumption. Also I know nothing about the efficiency of the PSU so it can deliver much less!!!

And if I want to put few HDD inside (plus an SSD) I have to carefully add up each components power consumption.

Regarding the RAM, could you please recommend a Corsair model. (Generally speaking, I'd take all premium components unless they generate too much heat).

People doesn't like miniITX format because all components are special. I don't care since I'm not going to use old components but I'd like to know what do you think about this. Is it still a good idea to go with miniITX?

renethx

09-23-09, 12:16 PM

The Chenbro's external PSU is rated 180W. Is that enough ? I ask this because even if the CPU doesn't go above 35W, I have no idea (no spec) about the MB power consumption. Also I know nothing about the efficiency of the PSU so it can deliver much less!!!

And if I want to put few HDD inside (plus an SSD) I have to carefully add up each components power consumption.

Regarding the RAM, could you please recommend a Corsair model. (Generally speaking, I'd take all premium components unless they generate too much heat).

People doesn't like miniITX format because all components are special. I don't care since I'm not going to use old components but I'd like to know what do you think about this. Is it still a good idea to go with miniITX?
I am pretty sure that the power consumption of your system even with four HDDs will never exceeds 120W (typically ~50W at idle, ~70W at video playback).

Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X4096-6400C5 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184) is a popular memory kit (I think many people are using it with DG45FC successfully).

Actually components are not so special (normal 2.5" SSD, normal 3.5" HDD, normal memory, normal USB TV tuner, etc.). Only the case/PSU are a kind of special. If you use a normal tower case, then you could add more storage HDDs later, of course.

andyb12

09-23-09, 06:11 PM

Wow! Thanks for this fantastic thread everyone. I’ve spent the last 3 days researching my system based on renethx suggested systems. You are incredible and a genius renethx.

The HTPC will be connected to a Sony Bravia Z-Series KDL-40Z4100/B 40-Inch 1080p 120Hz LCD HDTV (2008 vintage). I will be connected to an older Sony amplifier with optical inputs. I may upgrade to an audiophile quality amplifier at a later date. I will be using a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse as my main interface.

My needs are:
- Somewhat future proof
- 1080p HD playback from HD video files and Blu-Ray discs (no gaming or TV)
- Quiet
- Small footprint (14 inches depth or less) for my shelf size
- Connect to home network (1 fileserver XP32 and desktop XP32)

Here is the system I have put together:
CPU: Intel Core i5-750 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Xigmatek Intel Core i7 compatible THOR'S HAMMER HDT-S126384 CPU Cooler (fanless)
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD4 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
Memory: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
Graphics Card: HIS Radeon HD 4670 H467QS1GH Video Card
HDD: OCZ Vertex Series OCZSSD2-1VTX60G 2.5" MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD), Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives – OEM
PSU: ENERMAX PRO82+ EPR525AWT 525W Power Supply
Case: Silverstone Grandia GD02B Black HTPC mATX (size: 430mm(W)x155mm(H)x360mm(D))
Optical Drive: LG Blu-ray Burner Model BH08LS20
HDMI Cable: Rosewill RCW-H9034 A/V High-Speed 3.3 Feet HDMI Cable V 1.3a

I would like to be able to run XP32 Pro as I’ve grown good at tweaking and setting it up. I am open to using Window’s 7 when it is available if the operating system works well.

My questions are:
Will this system work with XP32 Pro? Will I need to get Windows 7?
Are there any potential conflicts or sensible upgrades (or downgrades)?
Is there an affordable (under $150) modular PSU that would be work well? The Grandia case is tight .
Are there any other small footprint (less than 14” deep) cases that would work with this setup?
What about using the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 instead of the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD4 ($80 difference right now and it has 2 PCI instead of 1 PCI and a PCIE, it also doesn't have the same VRM hardware)
Is there a good single slot Graphics Card that could be a substitute for the HIS Radeon 4670?

Thanks for any assistance!

rmdalrymple

09-23-09, 06:12 PM

HDTV Tuner Help Please!!

I am in the process of completing my HTPC bulid:

LenovoK230
Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 2.933MHz
6GBRAM
Intel X25M 160GB SSD
Radeon HD4850 Gigabyte Graphics 1GB RAM
Linkys Wireless Dual-N Band
Sharp 52E77UN
Denon 2310ci
5.1 surround
Windows Vista 64x Home Premium
Media Center / Media Browser

***I want to add a HDTV Tuner to WATCH only (not record) ALL Channels (Premium Channels included) Provided through my Comcast Subscription. I currently have an HD-DVR Set Top Box through comcast but for some reason the freakin remote doesn't work half the time (Comcast has been out to fix the problem 10+ times, still broken!!!) I would like the ability to watch ALL channels through Media Center...

Can anybody recommend a solution/HD TV Tuner card that will allow me to watch ALL channels (premium HD included) through media center?

Thanks in advance for you help!!

-Ryan

Beta Tester

09-23-09, 11:16 PM

Sorry, double post.

Beta Tester

09-23-09, 11:16 PM

Adding HD 4670 is the best way (in PQ). No need to upgrade CPU/mb (unless there are specific features you want).

I am wondering if the best choice now isn't the Radeon HD 5xxx series? It gives the PQ improvements, and also allows you to bit-stream the HD audio codecs with full fidelity (unlike the 4xxx series, which downsamples). This also means you no longer need the Asus Xonar card, making for a simpler system.

I recently purchased the Sapphire Radeon 4670, but I can still return it.

renethx

09-24-09, 01:12 AM

My questions are:
Will this system work with XP32 Pro? Will I need to get Windows 7?
Are there any potential conflicts or sensible upgrades (or downgrades)?
Is there an affordable (under $150) modular PSU that would be work well? The Grandia case is tight .
Are there any other small footprint (less than 14” deep) cases that would work with this setup?
What about using the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2 instead of the Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD4 ($80 difference right now and it has 2 PCI instead of 1 PCI and a PCIE, it also doesn't have the same VRM hardware)
Is there a good single slot Graphics Card that could be a substitute for the HIS Radeon 4670?
OS: XP 32-bit works fine. In case you need a good front end, I recommend MediaPortal. Check the sticky thread on this topic.

Conflicts: The only problem is the cooler. You will need a very short cooler inside GD02. The best one is Scythe BIG Shuriken (supports LGA 1156). Hopefully the tall heatspreader of Ripjaws does not block it.

Modular PSU: Enermax MODU82+ 525W/625W.

Case: SilverStone releases GD04 (http://en.expreview.com/2009/06/03/silverstone-gd04-htpc-pictured.html) (440 x 150 x 325 mm) soon, but I don't know how soon.

MB: There is not much difference between UD2 and UD4 for your purpose. UD4 supports PCI Express 2.0 x8, x8, so that one of them can be use for a RAID controller PCI Express x8 card, while UD2's second slot is limited to PCI Express 1.x (in bandwidth) x4.

GPU: HD 4670 is the best choice right now. Also consider Sapphire HD 4670 Actic Cooling cooler card (quieter than HIS). When you upgrade AVR, there will be a better card supporting HD audio bitstreams over HDMI at an affordable price.

renethx

09-24-09, 01:22 AM

Can anybody recommend a solution/HD TV Tuner card that will allow me to watch ALL channels (premium HD included) through media center?
Digital Cable Tuner is perhaps the only solution: The OEM requirement for CableCARD is GONE!! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1178139)

renethx

09-24-09, 01:27 AM

I am wondering if the best choice now isn't the Radeon HD 5xxx series? It gives the PQ improvements, and also allows you to bit-stream the HD audio codecs with full fidelity (unlike the 4xxx series, which downsamples). This also means you no longer need the Asus Xonar card, making for a simpler system.

I recently purchased the Sapphire Radeon 4670, but I can still return it.
If you are affordable, HD 5850 ($260) is the best choice right now. HD 5770/5750 ($199/$149) are coming soon (Oct 23?). You have to wait till Q1 2010 for HD 5670/5650.

Beta Tester

09-24-09, 01:38 AM

If you are affordable, HD 5850 ($260) is the best choice right now. HD 5770/5750 ($199/$149) are coming soon (Oct 23?). You have to wait till Q1 2010 for HD 5670/5650.

For me, price is not a big deal, since the extra cost of the 5850 would be offset by not having to buy the Xonar.

It is probably a software choice. The HD5850 needs PDVD, which I am not overly happy about. The Xonar solution requires TMT, which I have never tried but understand is preferable to PDVD. I have the appropriate AVR, so neither solution is superior audio-wise.

The other requirement is that I need it to work with Windows XP Professional. After spending too much time getting my htpc to working exactly the way I want it to, I don't want to upgrade the OS and go through all the hassles again.

iggyhound

09-24-09, 11:33 AM

The only thing i need this for is to stream video to tv. I would like to have audio on the HDMI cable. So how is this for a basic system.

1. AMD Sempron 140 Sargas 2.7GHz Socket AM3 45W Single-Core Processor
2. GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX

3.Patriot Viper 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)
or
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual

4. APEVIA Black / Silver SECC Steel / Aluminum X-MASTER-AL/500 ATX Media Center / HTPC Case - Retail

5. Use an old 80GB IDE for OS.
Western Digital Green 1TB for storage

I have some other questions though.
-Will this system be upgradable to W7 later? I'll prob run XP PRO on it for now.
-What about the Samsung EcoGreen 1TB 5400 RPM, would it be better to get this.
-Any difference in the quality of the RAM between these two?

Thanks for your help.

renethx

09-24-09, 12:19 PM

iggyhound

09-24-09, 12:38 PM

The audio would be going straight into a tv.

Thanks for the quick reply.

renethx

09-24-09, 12:42 PM

The audio would be going straight into a tv.
Then the system is good enough (except for CPU; in general you'd better use a dual-core processor such as Athlon II X2 240, $60). Just connect the onboard HDMI connector to TV for video/audio.

iggyhound

09-24-09, 12:47 PM

Ok thanksa lot. I'll upgrade the CPU and now I'm ready to start ordering!!!

TroubleMan

09-24-09, 01:10 PM

renethx

09-24-09, 01:27 PM

I've been looking at the HIS Radeon HD 4670 fanless card as I'm looking to go with a silent video card for my planned HTPC. Right now there is a $20 rebate deal on that card and I'm wondering if I should buy it now. At the same time, late October will see the release of new video cards (Radeon HD 5xxxx), which should push the prices of existing cards lower. Will the newer cards push the prices more than $20 (i.e., should I buy the card now, or wait for the price drop in October/November). I won't be building my HTPC until later October or November, but I figured it's best to get parts when I can get a good deal on them. Any thoughts?
Only two subfamilies are available this year: HD 5870 (X2)/5850 (Cypress, Hemlock), > $200, and HD 5770/5750 (Juniper), $100-$200. The mainstream (5670, 5650; Redwood)/low-end (5550, 5350; Cedar) are available only Q1 2010. So perhaps the price of HD 4670 won't change much through this year.

TroubleMan

09-24-09, 02:16 PM

Only two subfamilies are available this year: HD 5870 (X2)/5850 (Cypress, Hemlock), > $200, and HD 5770/5750 (Juniper), $100-$200. The mainstream (5670, 5650; Redwood)/low-end (5550, 5350; Cedar) are available only Q1 2010. So perhaps the price of HD 4670 won't change much through this year.Thanks, I guess I'll grab the card while it's $80, too bad I only have an old AGP machine sitting at home, I won't be able to test it out until I build my HTPC.

pezgarden

09-24-09, 03:55 PM

Well, my HTPC is a year old. e8400 XP pro driving a Samsung 52" monitor at 1920x1080. I sit maybe 12 feet from the screen. Other than movies, I do use the system for Web, Photoshop. I find it hartd to read the menus. Black text on gray. Other than lowering the revolution, what are people doing to make the text easier to read at 12 feet?

Thanks

Max

Bodhaguru

09-24-09, 04:40 PM

Hi Guys, Am new to this forum. Realized I can get a lot of info & help here.
I just built a basic,budget htpc using recommendations on pg 85. My set up is:
MB :GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H
CPU:Athlon II X2 250 3.0GHz AM3
RAM:A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB
HDD:Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps
OS :Windows Vista Ultimate

I connected it to samsung 24" TV/Monitor via HDMI & it worked fine with audio coming out of TV speakers. Then I connected a pair of logitech 2.1 pc speakers to the line-in socket on the rear panel & that worked fine too. Now is where my problem starts. I connected the hdmi cable to the projector & got video output but no sound from projector speakers. So I hooked up a digital toslink audio cable to the S/PDIF on the rear panel & the other end to the 5.1 receiver & still no sound at all. Can someone help me please? What good is a htpc without good surround sound?:confused:

tsioulis

09-24-09, 06:02 PM

Hi guys.

I want to buy/fix me a new htpc system. I want it to be as quiet as possible without going to watercooling stuff and i want as much performance as possible without choosing the latest stuff. Im just going to use it for movies(1080p) and music(spotify).

Which components/setup would you advise me to buy?

Cheers!

PMJohnson9

09-24-09, 07:01 PM

Hello all! Finally posting to this thread after lurking for a while...

I have been looking at the systems on page 85 and I am still debating between a mid-range or going for a high end setup. I want to do the usual DVD/BD playback and record as well as possibly gaming (why I may lean towards the high end) and streaming DVR playback from my DirecTV box. I also tend to rip and playback my DVDs from the HDD.

My real question at this point is whether I should bother to buy any of the "how-to" books from Amazon or wherever or if this will be more simple than I think. I'm pretty sure I can figure out how to put the components together as I've had my previous PCs apart before, but I've never built one from scratch, so the setting of the BIOS, etc will be new to me. I know renethx plans to put together a guide in the future, but are there any other recommendations or will the various product manuals give me enough insight?

PMJ

C E Jones

09-24-09, 08:48 PM

I know renethx plans to put together a guide in the future, but are there any other recommendations or will the various product manuals give me enough insight?

PMJ

:confused: Read the title of the thread, rene's guide has been out for awhile. By the time any book hits the press, the info in it will be older than page 85. Plus you can't post questions on a book :D

etcarroll

09-24-09, 09:36 PM

:confused: Read the title of the thread, rene's guide has been out for awhile. By the time any book hits the press, the info in it will be older than page 85. Plus you can't post questions on a book :D

True, true.............

Still, before building my 1st htpc I bought "Building The Perfect PC", softcover at 20% off. There was one tip in it, and it was a lifesaver. I keep it nearby with each successive build, even though I rarely look at it.

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Perfect-Second-Robert-Thompson/dp/0596526865

NFLnut

09-25-09, 12:28 AM

Tijs_Verwest

09-25-09, 01:05 AM

Is the SilverStone NT07-775 CPU Cooler $20 really necessary to cool the Pentium E5300 , does it really help improve the temperature?

renethx

09-25-09, 01:22 AM

I have all of the parts in my shopping cart for the Premium Intel/Intel HTPC. I have made a few changes .. for one, I will be using standard (non-SSD) 1TB drive(s) (max 2 in the HTPC case) and have chosen the POWERCOLOR AX4850 1GBD3-PH Radeon HD 4850 1GB Video Card since even though I don't currently game, I don't want to rule it out completely now that I'm building a kick@** HTPC. That video card seems a nice compromise for the price, and since I might add a 5870/5850 down the road, I don't want to spend more on it at this time.

Here are the parts I have/am buying:

CPU: Core i7 860 2.80GHz
CPU Cooler: Stock, for now.
Motherboard: ASUS P7P55D EVO LGA1156
Memory: G.SKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBNQ DDR3-1600 2 x 2GB
Graphics Card (ATI): POWERCOLOR AX4850 1GBD3-PH Radeon HD 4850 1GB
Optical Drive: LG Black Super Multi Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive SATA Model GGW-H20L
Case: Thermaltake DH102 (same as DH104, but not as tall .. DH104 won't fit in my rack)

My question is: do I really need the Enermax REVOLUTION85+ 850W ERV850EWT at $213? Do I need 850w? That seems like overkill to me. I would love to save some $$ on the PSU if possible. But I also may be adding a 5850/5870 6mos to a year, so maybe I do?

One other question: if I *DO* add another video card down the road, will only having ONE PCIe 2.0 at x16 be a problem? Wouldn't the second card I eventually add run slower since it would only be running at x8?

Here is the reason I may be ADDing a card. With the 7" touchscreen on the case, the two outputs on the 4850 card will e used. I would like later on to be able to add the 58*0 card and then relegate the two outputs on the new card to: (1) my main large HDTV, and (2) to an HDMI network of TV's around the house. I would then use the 4850 strictly for the touchscreen.

Thoughts?
I chose 850W keeping multi-GPU in mind. If you never use it, Enermax MODU82+ or PRO82+ 625W should be enough. Well, even if you use multi-GPU, perhaps 625W should be good unless you go with dual HD 5870 X2.

Dual PCI Express 2.0 x8 vs. dual PCI Express 2.0 x16 has been discussed a lot at gaming websites. If you are a gaming enthusiasts, Bloomfield (i7 920) is recommended (but it consumes much more power at idle/load, +20W to +30W).

Using HD 4850 only for the 7" touch screen is a huge waste (it consumes 40-50W at idle). I recommend you to buy a HD 5850 from the beginning. HD 5850 supports three displays simultaneously:

- DVI-I + HDMI + DP or
- DVI-I + DVI-I + DP

Use a DP to VGA adapter (http://www.google.com/products?hl=ja&q=displayport+vga+adapter) for the touch screen.

renethx

09-25-09, 01:24 AM

Is the SilverStone NT07-775 CPU Cooler $20 really necessary to cool the Pentium E5300 , does it really help improve the temperature?
NT07-775 is shorter than the stock cooler. That's the only reason to choose it. Check your case's clearance.

Tijs_Verwest

09-25-09, 01:31 AM

NT07-775 is shorter than the stock cooler. That's the only reason to choose it. Check your case's clearance.

The case i chose was the Antec ISK 300-65: 3.8" x 8.7" x 12.9" , will the e5300 regular cooler fit? :confused:

renethx

09-25-09, 02:10 AM

The case i chose was the Antec ISK 300-65: 3.8" x 8.7" x 12.9" , will the e5300 regular cooler fit? :confused:
Read SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article959-page4.html):

The big challenge here was to find a heatsink that would fit yet have big enough cooling surface area (read: fins) to allow operation without a fan directly on the heatsink. The space between the top of the CPU and the bottom of the drive tray frame is approximately 6.5cm. Getting rid of the drive frame would give us just under 1cm extra height, which is still pretty short at 7.5cm.

A stock Intel heatsink measures about 6.3cm, so it would fit fine. No tower heatsinks need apply here; there are all too tall, even the Scythe Ninja Mini. Our favorite cooler for quick and easy testing around the lab, the Arctic Cooling Alpine 7 Pro, was also too tall at 8.3cm to fit. The Scythe Big Shuriken, a sample of which arrived in the middle of the testing for this review, seemed promising at first, but ended up being unusable because it was impossible to gain access to the mounting pushpins under the top fin stack when we attempted to mount it on the Zotac board.

PMJohnson9

09-25-09, 04:59 AM

:confused: Read the title of the thread, rene's guide has been out for awhile. By the time any book hits the press, the info in it will be older than page 85. Plus you can't post questions on a book :D

Yeah, thanks genius, I *DID* read the title of the thread.. If you read AND comprehend my previous post, you would realize I was talking about the Assembly section, which has NOT been out at all, let alone for a while. As for being out of date, while it is true as far as hardware is concerned, I assume the principles of building a system would remain consistent.

Anyway, thanks to etcarroll for providing a useful response - I'll check that book out on Amazon.

PMJ

Ebes1099

09-25-09, 12:10 PM

Yeah, thanks genius, I *DID* read the title of the thread.. If you read AND comprehend my previous post, you would realize I was talking about the Assembly section, which has NOT been out at all, let alone for a while. As for being out of date, while it is true as far as hardware is concerned, I assume the principles of building a system would remain consistent.

Anyway, thanks to etcarroll for providing a useful response - I'll check that book out on Amazon.

PMJ

I built my HTPC not too long ago. I used this thread and forum for advice on Hardware. Putting it together wasn't too difficult and I had never built a computer before. I've goofed around with plenty of electronics though and had laptops and desktops apart and I understand how they work and go together, but it was still the first one I built.

It worked the first time I booted up. Then I just did a quick search to find out how to set up the BIOS and other initial boot up issues. Not difficult at all. I'd say you won't need the book, there's a wealth of information on the internet at your disposal.

bmcent1

09-25-09, 04:31 PM

thinkhard42

09-26-09, 12:48 AM

thanks for the guide. very helpful.

NFLnut

09-26-09, 02:28 AM

So, my theater is almost done (YAY! :-) and my HTPC, v 1.0 has convinced me it deserves a spot in the equipment stack.

My question is, does anyone have suggestions for a small screen to pair with an HTPC and also, can someone tell me a bit more about a wireless mouse or other wireless pointing option?

* One of the main uses for my HTPC may be to stream Pandora.com. For this case, it's really a waste of the projector's bulb and creates extra heat to run my movie projector just to access a website.

1) I saw someone mention here a 7" screen, is there a screen on the case that actually shows the Windows 7 desktop and could be used to control the computer without powering up my projector?

2) Something that might work is using a Netbook to VNC into the HTPC when not planning on powering up the projector. Good idea? Better ideas?

3) I plan to do enough PC-ish things that having the HTPC boot into Media Portal and controlling from a regular RF remote seems limiting. I'd rather use a wireless pointing device if that's possible, but my HTPC is off to the side of the room, 90 degrees away from the projection screen. Is there some sort of beacon (like with the Wii) or another way that a wireless mouse would work in this scenario?

Thanks!

I can't answer your other questions, but yes .. there are a number of cases that feature 7" touchscreens on the front. When they've been discussed here, the responses are usualy "oh, what a waste of money .." or "who would ever use that?", but I actually think that they have a use. That is, not having to fire up the big TV just to program a recording, or to tell the HTPC to play music. Plus, they also happen to bring a cool bling to yo ur setup. ;)

The ones with a 7" touchscreen that I started looking at were: Moneual 972 and 932, the Zalman HD160XT, the Thermaltake DH102 (the one I ended up buying because it is shorter and fits in my rack despite the fact that I hate the silver bottom rail) and DH104. Then, there are the OrigenAE cases, ending with an OrigenAE S21T case that features a 12.1" motorized screen (the entire front of the case is screen). The latter runs ~$1000, but all of the 7" TS cases run from about $399-$7**'s.

When I first started looking at them, the one that I liked most was the Moneaual Moncaso 972. The touchscreen in the middle-front of the case looked better, I thought. But then I found that it will only accept one optical drive .. the Lite-On model and not the LG drives (the most popular optical drive going). If you are not going to use optical, the this is a non-issue. The Thermaltake are attractive because they are probably the least expensive, and they are well-built cases.

Almost all of these come with iMon software (I'm not sure about the OrigenAE cases). This will allow you to select in settings to always display your desktop on the touchscreen, but only the programming on the main TV. The iMon software has its share of critics, but in this one respect, it appears to be implemented fairly well.

You can find a number of detailed reviews by doing a "Google," and there are a number of video reviews on Youtube. If you specifically look for reviews on Youtube for the Thermaltake cases, you will see a couple of videos which show the iMon software in action on the touchscreen in great detail.

Finally, on the remote issue. I highly suggest the Gyration remotes. Specifically, the Gyration Air Music Remote which uses an internal gyro to translate wrist motions (left, right, up, down) into Wii-like motions. The nice thing about the Air Music is that it (1) has its own small LCD screen which allows you to select music directly (it interfaces with iTunes, but I'm not certain if it works with Pandora), and (2) it is an rf-remote so you can use it from anywhere in your home. Through 9/30, there are rebates directly from the manufacturer. I just bought the Air Music Remote and Compact Wireless Keyboard combo on Amazon for $108.87, and after the $50 MIR, it comes to $58.87. If you only want the remote, I believe they run around $79 and the rebate for remote only is $40 (I think, or maybe it's $30).

HTH

Jonathan DA

09-26-09, 04:54 PM

Could I get some opinions on these two setups? I'm upgrading an existing HTPC with new guts. Primary usage will be
1) OTA DVR using JRiver or SageTV
2) HULU playback upscaled to 1080p
3) 1080p upscaling of DVD backups

One major requirement is audio+video over a single HDMI cable. Doesn't need to be 7.1 LPCM; DD/DTS is just fine for now.

Here are the options.

1:
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD with ATI HD 4200 integrated graphics

My understanding of this system is that that the HD 4200 can do handle 1080p fine but can only do stereo PCM over HDMI. Is that correct? If so, this may be a deal killer since I want DD/DTS.

2:
ECS BLACK SERIES GF8200A (V1.0) AM2+/AM3 NVIDIA GeForce 8200 HDMI or
ASUS M3N78-EM AM2+/AM2 NVIDIA GeForce 8300 HDMI

From what I've read about these chipsets, they can do 7.1 LPCM over HDMI when combined with another GeForce video card. But, can it do DD/DTS + video over a single cable if I'm just using the integrated video (which I assume is good enough for 1080p)?

Option 3? Is there something else entirely I should be considering to get DD/DTS + Video over a single HDMI cable? I should caveat that by saying I'm trying to do this on the cheap, so I'd prefer not to have to purchase a Xonar or similar card.

Thanks for the help!
Jonathan

mary_johnson

09-26-09, 06:52 PM

WOW! This is an incredible guide to building a HTPC! I have been wanting to build a new home computer for myself, and have done so in the past, but fell out of touch with what all the new components (processors, etc.) do and are used for. I did not really know which processor to pick and what type of motherboard to pair it up with - but this really shows exactly what I should get to get all of the high definition components hooked up to it so that I can make sure to have all the features in my home theater system. Keep up the good work making this guys!

Jonathan DA

09-26-09, 08:01 PM

Ok, so from what I'm reading on Tom's hardware, both the GeForce 8300 and the HD 4200 can do DD/DTS over HDMI, but the 8300 can also do 7.1 LPCM while the 4200 can only do 2.0 LPCM. It also looks like the GeForce 9400 might be a good option if I want to go the Intel route for a CPU. So the question for me now becomes driver quality. I've used both ATI and nVidia cards in the past, with both good and bad results for each.

Can anyone make a persuasive argument for one or the other?

Thanks,
Jonathan

gunbunnysoulja

09-26-09, 08:53 PM

Renethx,

I'm about to grab one of these and I was hoping for your opinion to better help me decide...

Intel X25-E Extreme SSDSA2SH032G1 2.5" 32GB SATA II SLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) Sequential Access - Write up to 170 MB/s (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167013)

vs

Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G1 80GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid state disk (SSD) Sequential Access - Write Up to 70MB/s (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167005)

Thanks!

renethx

09-26-09, 11:33 PM

renethx

09-27-09, 12:44 AM

fjoggy

09-27-09, 07:16 AM

bighick

09-27-09, 01:13 PM

I have troubles with NON dxva compliant rips with my athlon 64 x2 5200 but when i test it on my intel e5200 they work fine so i am assuming that it is a cpu issue. I would just switch my desktop with my htpc but it doesnt have anything for digital audio out. So am i wondering is a Athlon II x2 240 regor would solve this issues. Then i would move my 5200+ over to my server to replace the athlon64 x2 4600+.
so athlon 64 x2 5200 vs athlon II x2 240, will the 240 be better?

Ati 4350, media portal, mpc-hc

Edit- the 5200+ studders and audio skips or not in sync
edit2 - motherboard ASUS M3A78-EM AM2+/AM2 ----aprears it will work with newest bios

Marc_G

09-27-09, 01:38 PM

Hey everyone!

I'm at the final stage building my HTPC, but I have a problem that needs solving before it's complete. I have a Asus M3N78-EM motherboard and a Antech Fusion Remote case. I've choosen to change the orginal case fans with Nexus Real Silent 120 mm. The problem is that I can't find where to connect the Nexus fans on the motherboard. The Nexus fans have a 4-pin connector while the motherboard only have 3-pin connectors. Is there someone here that can help me with this? I need a 4-pin connector on the motherboard to have the opportunity to manage fan speed, correct? Yes, I'm newbie:-).

I'm aware of that the original case fans are connected to the PSU. If I can't figure out this problem I'll have to switch back to the original case fans.

Hi Fjoggy,

It's been a while since I was where you are now, but I believe the answer was simple. The 4-pin plug will connect fine to the 3-pin connector on the MB. One pin on the plug will be not attached to anything, but the plug and connector will fit.

Folks, if I'm wrong on this, please correct me. This was about 4-5 months ago for me...

Marc

renethx

09-27-09, 01:45 PM

bighick

09-27-09, 02:06 PM

the e5200 also has a 4350

Jonathan DA

09-27-09, 02:10 PM

Thanks for the feedback renethx. Pulling the trigger on the HD4200 today!

bighick

09-27-09, 02:59 PM

Hey everyone!

I'm at the final stage building my HTPC, but I have a problem that needs solving before it's complete. I have a Asus M3N78-EM motherboard and a Antech Fusion Remote case. I've choosen to change the orginal case fans with Nexus Real Silent 120 mm. The problem is that I can't find where to connect the Nexus fans on the motherboard. The Nexus fans have a 4-pin connector while the motherboard only have 3-pin connectors. Is there someone here that can help me with this? I need a 4-pin connector on the motherboard to have the opportunity to manage fan speed, correct? Yes, I'm newbie:-).

I'm aware of that the original case fans are connected to the PSU. If I can't figure out this problem I'll have to switch back to the original case fans.

I know you can land the 4pin fan on a 3 pin header but am not sure if you will be able to control it. If you cant control it i would get a fan controller and some 4pin to the molex connectors and then adjust it to a good speed. It will probably be quieter and more efficent than the case fans.

renethx

09-27-09, 10:52 PM

Tijs_Verwest

09-27-09, 11:20 PM

I'm going to get the Antec ISK 300-65 Mini-itx but it only comes with a 65w psu, and i havent found case just as small or smaller with a better psu :mad: :mad: , so im planning on buying a picopsu , what do guys think? i plan on buying a 102w psu http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT-102-power-kit;jsessionid=0a010c461f43360a7c94b00148f889fbf32304af35b7. e3eSc3qPbN0Te34Pa38Ta38Pax10?sc=8&category=1097 , will it be enough for my htpc? it consist on:

1. Antec ISK 300-65 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case
2. Blu-ray drive: LG Electronics CT10N Slim SATA Blu-Ray Combo Drive
3. CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
4. Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX
5. Memory: Crucial Ballistix 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model BL25664AA80A
6. HDD: WD Scorpio Blue Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD5000BEVT 500GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive – OEM

And also im gonna plug an usb hhd which i asume consumes quite a bit of power, im almost sure a 65w psu wont be enough :(

renethx

09-27-09, 11:40 PM

Ambywahwah

09-28-09, 05:30 AM

Agreed

Ebes1099

09-28-09, 11:44 AM

I know you can land the 4pin fan on a 3 pin header but am not sure if you will be able to control it. If you cant control it i would get a fan controller and some 4pin to the molex connectors and then adjust it to a good speed. It will probably be quieter and more efficent than the case fans.

I used an Antec Fusion and replaced the case fans with Scythe Kama Flex fans and if I remember correctly my Mobo (Asus Rampage II Gene) had 4 pin connectors for the fans and my fans only had 3 pin connectors. They still fit with 1 pin on the mobo just not connecting to anything.

My problem was with my Zalman fanmates, they had a bigger 3 pin connector that wouldn't fit on the mobo because it was hitting the 4th pin. I just left them off and my PC is quiet and runs cool. (Except when I'm encoding video but I think that's more because my heatsink isn't seated properly).

MomboX

09-28-09, 03:04 PM

Whats the best price people have found lately on the LG H20L BR/HDdvd drive?

cytho

09-28-09, 04:20 PM

O.K. so this would be my first HTPC build and really only my second system build altogether. I want a little simple HTPC and plan on pretty much copying exactly the ITX one on here like:

Intel/NVIDIA

System
• CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775, $64.
• CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT07-775, $20.
• Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX, $140.
• Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $32.
• Graphics Card: GeForce 9300 (integrated in the chipset), $0.
• HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
• PSU: ATX12V 250W SFX PSU (included in the case): $0.
• Case: Apex MI-008 Mini-ITX, $40. An alternative is Apex MI-100BK Mini-ITX, $48.
• Total Cost: $366

A couple questions since I have never done this altogether before, Will this system run 1080p?

with it being on the cheaper under powered size will it be able to handle running media center pretty much 9 hours a day?

I know these may have been asked already but i dont have the time to go thru 388 pages sorry.

brianley

09-28-09, 04:54 PM

cytho

09-28-09, 05:32 PM

According to some reviews on NewEgg, that MB / GPU can run 1080P without problems. 250 watts for a hard drive and onboard graphics is more than sufficient, only concern would be if it is a cheap power supply - which it could be being that its included with a $40 case.

My only question is how do you plan on controlling it? I don't see any IR components - or are you going to use a mouse / keyboard as your main means of control?

Yeah I read the reviews just seems a bity tiny to do that, the controlling yes I forgot to put that on here but I plan on using an exsisting wireless keyboard and touch pad later hopefully an upgrade to the Logitech diNovo.

I was just mainly worried about the 1080p

Tijs_Verwest

09-28-09, 05:59 PM

1. Antec ISK 300-65 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel Mini-ITX Desktop Computer Case
2. Blu-ray drive: LG Electronics CT10N Slim SATA Blu-Ray Combo Drive
3. CPU: Intel Pentium E5300 2.6GHz 2MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
4. Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX
5. Memory: Crucial Ballistix 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model BL25664AA80A
6. HDD: WD Scorpio Blue Western Digital Scorpio Blue WD5000BEVT 500GB 5400 RPM 8MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive – OEM

And also im gonna plug an usb hhd which i asume consumes quite a bit of power

102W is enough.

How much do u think my htpc will consume? 80-85w? Are u sure the included 65w psu wont be enough?, i could save those 70$ for the 102w psu :p

btordini

09-28-09, 08:26 PM

Hello

I am going to build a High-end ATX Intel/Intel HTPC, exactly like the one suggested in page 85. I am going to add:
Assus Xonar 1.3 Deluxe
WinTV HVR 2250
ENCORE ENLWI-N PCI 2.3 Wireless Adapter
Gyration GYR4101US
Nippon Labs Internal Card Reader 3.5
A second WD6400AAKS

My question is, will still the suggested 625 W power supply be good enough for this system?

Thank you very much in advance

bradystrib

09-28-09, 09:04 PM

chanakya

09-28-09, 09:25 PM

At 125W, AMD Phenom II X4 955 might be over kill for mini-itx build. It will run hot and most of the cases don't cool proper.

chanakya

09-28-09, 09:27 PM

I am currently building an amd 785G based system, and going for the Asus 785G Am2+ motherboard. Will the Geminii II S cooler fit this matx board on a antec p180 mini case?

renethx

09-29-09, 12:15 AM

A couple questions since I have never done this altogether before, Will this system run 1080p?

with it being on the cheaper under powered size will it be able to handle running media center pretty much 9 hours a day?

I know these may have been asked already but i dont have the time to go thru 388 pages sorry.
Yes.

Yes. You can run it even 24/7 (if electric bill does not matter). A problem is that PCB does not support USB wakeup yet (this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17158748#post17158748)).

*Official* Zotac Geforce 9300 Mini-Itx HTPC Motherboard Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1111996) contains lots of information.

renethx

09-29-09, 12:17 AM

How much do u think my htpc will consume? 80-85w? Are u sure the included 65w psu wont be enough?, i could save those 70$ for the 102w psu :p
Yup, typically.

I am not sure. Try 65W PSU first and see if the system runs stably.

renethx

09-29-09, 12:18 AM

renethx

09-29-09, 12:23 AM

so i was looking at building a middle level micro-atx amd/amd system. A coworker of mine let me know today he had a AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition for sale still sealed in a box for $150. Is it worth it to upgrade to that processor for a few dollars more than the one recommended?
Worth or not depends on your usage. If you want to finish CPU intensive tasks faster (such as video re-encoding), it is a good choice (check this article (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3638&p=4)). For pure video playback, Athlon is enough.

renethx

09-29-09, 12:29 AM

I am currently building an amd 785G based system, and going for the Asus 785G Am2+ motherboard. Will the Geminii II S cooler fit this matx board on a antec p180 mini case?
Yes, unless the taller chipset heatsink blocks the cooler which is highly unlikely.

swing8

09-29-09, 02:25 AM

I'm sure this question has been asked/answered but I can't read this whole thread to find this out. The only reason I NEED an HTPC is to record HDTV with greater storage. Anything else it does would be a bonus. I have Cox Cable digital/HD service in L.A. The DVR's they provide only give 60 hrs standard and 10 hrs in HD (per Cox. The Motorola manual says it's 120/20). I need much more than 10 hrs; preferably 50 hours at least.

Will I be able to record digital HD channels with Cox Cable using a HTPC?

renethx

09-29-09, 02:50 AM

Will I be able to record digital HD channels with Cox Cable using a HTPC?
Use Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212 USB capturing device with any PC.

nalooti

09-29-09, 12:17 PM

Hi renethx, all

I'm finally approaching the fine tuning of my system with some more questions to ask. Since I don't know if you remember my context, here is a brief description.

Because of lack of space, instead of building an HTPC and a Backup station (which is my priority now), I decided to build in one single box a Backup station very simple without any RAID (just backup and SMB/NFS sharing) and a basic HTPC. Problem is that the constraint of one is not always compatible with the other. More specifically, I'm concerned of noise of the case. So here is my config and I'd like to know what do you think.

- CPU: Core2Duo E7600, 3.06GHz, 1066MHz, 3MB, 65W
I could use a Core2Duo E7300, 2.66GHz, 1066MHz, 3MB, 65W or even a Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775
but they're all rated at 65W, so my first question:

1/ Does E7600 produce more heat than the E7300 because of higher frequency even if they're both rated at 65Watt ?

renethx, I know i already asked this question and you told me it depends on the cache. But, I'm perplex; if the amount of produced heat is a little bit more on E7600 with high CPU utilization I'll chose it. But most of the time the CPU load is low and in this case if the E7600 generate more heat I'll chose the E7300 instead. In other words, I want the CPU that generate the lower heat at "normal" utilization (not at high load because in this case I can afford a little bit more noise but not at normal use e.g. viewing a HD content). So which CPU to chose ?

- Scythe Big Shuriken (Cuivre et aluminium, Caloducs, AM2, 1366 / 775 / 478)

- MB: Intel DG45FC (BOXDG45FC) LGA775 Intel G45 chipset Mini-ITX

- RAM: Corsair Twin2X 2 x 2 Go DDRII PC8500 CAS 5 (4096 Mo, PC8500 (1066 MHz)

- HDD:
SSD Intel X25-M SSDSA2MH080G2 (2nd generation PostVille)
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1022/13/

Western Digital Caviar Green S-ATA - 1000 Go - 32 Mo (1000 Go, 32 Mo, S-ATA/II, 5400 trs/min)

- case:
Chenbro ES34069 (with 120W or 180W PSU) (1 internal 2.5" bay + 4 hot-swap 3.5" bays).
I really like the easy accessible 4xHDD which are also hot-swappable

Now my real concern is about noise. The Chenbro has 2x70mm fans and a miniITX case. Questions:

2/ Can this case support the Scythe Big Shuriken fan (even if the height isn't that much, I can't say for sure if there is enough space in Chenbro)

3/ I'm wondering if those 2x70mm fans are silent. I found no review on it. Given that 70mm is not standard, could you give me some interesting near-silent 70mm fans that could replace the original ones ?

4/ Are you finally ok that this MB (Intel DG45FC) has the on-board HD viewing capability ? Can I sometimes (not so often) run a game on it or run googleEarth with 3D ?

5/ Can I sometimes encode (in this case maybe should I chose another CPU but then what about noise) ? if there is any risk to raise the noise level by choosing a more powerful CPU I'll not encode ...

thanks for your help
nalooti

swing8

09-29-09, 12:39 PM

Use Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212 USB capturing device with any PC.
Awesome. Thanks.

renethx

09-29-09, 01:04 PM

bmcent1

09-29-09, 01:08 PM

I highly suggest the Gyration remotes. Specifically, the Gyration Air Music Remote which uses an internal gyro to translate wrist motions (left, right, up, down) into Wii-like motions. The nice thing about the Air Music is that it (1) has its own small LCD screen which allows you to select music directly (it interfaces with iTunes, but I'm not certain if it works with Pandora)

Thanks for the reply NFLnut!

Couple more questions... I've Googled and watched YouTube videos but it still isn't clear -

Can the 7" touch screen simply display your Windows 7 Desktop AND will tapping an icon on the desktop (or a button in any application) simulate a mouse click or double click on that same thing? Can I "drive" my PC with only this rather than a mouse?

Same question basically for the Air Music Gyration Remote... I saw the iTunes integration and Media Center, but it wasn't obvious if it will move a cursor around the plain Windows 7 Desktop.

If the above work as I hope, they could be perfect for my use (Pandora without powering up and leaving the Projector on)... otherwise I think I will pair a wireless keyboard with touch pad and a small conventional LCD monitor which can sit with the rest of the AV components. Just FYI, here is the wireless keyboard I'm looking at --
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823111043&cm_re=wireless_touchpad-_-23-111-043-_-Product

Anyone else with suggestions here... I'm all ears!

NFLnut

09-29-09, 02:52 PM

Whats the best price people have found lately on the LG H20L BR/HDdvd drive?

I paid ~$165 about three weeks ago. This was a barebones drive in a plastic bag, but did include a power adaptor and SATA cable along with a driver CD. There were a couple of others $5-$10 cheaper, but they were sellers of limited repute.

NFLnut

09-29-09, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the reply NFLnut!

Couple more questions... I've Googled and watched YouTube videos but it still isn't clear -

Can the 7" touch screen simply display your Windows 7 Desktop AND will tapping an icon on the desktop (or a button in any application) simulate a mouse click or double click on that same thing? Can I "drive" my PC with only this rather than a mouse?

Did you see this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU4yuJmv00&feature=related

In the very beginning of that video, you see him using the touchscreen, and then he switches to using the included WMC remote to do the same. With a touchscreen case, you can operate it solely with touches on the screen and/or using the WMC remote.

BTW -- the reason I bought the Gyration combo was not because I needed a different remote. I actually needed a keyboard, but the cost of buying the combo and getting the gyro-operated remote (better implementation, IMO) was about $10. You WILL at some point probably need a keyboard, especially if you plan to occasionally surf the net and watch Hulu or Youtube videos. Yes, there will always be the option of the on-screen software keyboard (and you see it in that vdeo) but if you have to do a lot of typing even on rare occasions, the hardware, wireless board will make things MUCH easier. If you have any interest in the Gyration stuff, remember that the rebate is only available if you purchase by tomorrow (9/30).

Same question basically for the Air Music Gyration Remote... I saw the iTunes integration and Media Center, but it wasn't obvious if it will move a cursor around the plain Windows 7 Desktop.

If the above work as I hope, they could be perfect for my use (Pandora without powering up and leaving the Projector on)... otherwise I think I will pair a wireless keyboard with touch pad and a small conventional LCD monitor which can sit with the rest of the AV components. Just FYI, here is the wireless keyboard I'm looking at --
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823111043&cm_re=wireless_touchpad-_-23-111-043-_-Product

Anyone else with suggestions here... I'm all ears!

I don't see any reason why that keyboard wouldn't work, but I do have reservations about using a Bluetooth device more than a few feet away. I prefer Gyration's keyboards that utilize standard 2.4 ghz radio signals. YMMV But I don't see any reason why the Bluetooth wouldn't work, in principle.

With a touchscreen case, you won't need a touchpad. You walk over to the HTPC, and use the touchscreen just as if you're using a mouse. There is a second video from the same person that shows him using a WMC remote as well. The iMon software allows you to show only the WIN 7 (or whatever version of Windows you're using) desktop on the touchscreen, and then choose your projector or big TV as the second display to only show the programming.

One other thing that I didn't mention in my previous post: I chose the DH102 for lack of space to house the DH104 (about 2.5" taller). Because of using the shorter DH102, I cannot install the Radeon HD 5850 (which turns out won't be THAT big of a deal for me) video card. So keep in mind if you're going to go strictly with renethx's parts lists, you might be limited to alternate choices if you have to use another case.

NFLnut

09-29-09, 03:26 PM

Use Hauppauge HD PVR model 1212 USB capturing device with any PC.

I second that. The 1212 makes it a breeze, and no big task on your CPU. Even though it only accepts component-in, and is limited to 1080i, I can tell virtually no difference in video quality from the source. And it will allow you to store Blu-ray format video on standard DVD-R's, so you'll save $$$ on expensive Blu-ray blanks.

bmcent1

09-29-09, 03:27 PM

Okay, that's really cool!

Is there a way to turn the LCD off (or have it go to sleep like a regular desktop LCD) when not in use? When I'm watching a movie, all lights are off in the theater and and displays on my AV equipment are set to dim (or off.)

The Gyration sounds really nice, but I'm torn. I like the idea of a RF handheld "mouse", but I am already certain I will be using a Harmony 890 remote (already ordered), in part because I love my existing 880 so much and because it's going to control the room lighting via a Z-Wave lightswitch from leviton.

At this point, waffling on the 7" LCD on the case, but pretty sure I will go for an RF keyboard for those occasions it's needed, and thinking if the keyboard has a touch pad or trackball, that might do and help me avoid needing more than one controller.

bobby_t1

09-29-09, 03:42 PM

I'm about to pull the trigger on a complete Mini-ITX setup based on the "HD HTPC" thread recommendation on the Zotac 9300 motherboard with either the Apex MI-008 or Silverstone Sugo SG05 cases.

I plan to play a mixture of video ranging from internet video, and 720p and 1080p backup rips. I would also love to have a bluray drive in this machine instead of something outside connected by USB.

1. Any comments on the case choice - Apex vs. Silverstone?

2. What specific bluray drive are you using in either case choice? The Apex MI-008 would need a non-slim line drive, but shallow, whereas the Silverstone SG-05 just needs a slimline one.

3. Do I need any specific shallow connector (like right-angled) ones to make it fit?

4. Concerned about heat in this sucker, and have read the SilentPC review on the Apex MI-008 case and the addition of the "Yate Loon D12SL-12" fan including a Zalmann fanmate. Just wanted to find out if there was an alternate fan that ppl recommend that can be bought at Newegg since the Yate Loon isn't sold there.

5. The recommended HD is the Western Digital 640GB, but I want a Terabyte drive in this thing. Since temp is more important than speed, I was going to go with the infamous Samsung Spinpoint drives which are 5400rpm but run very cool. Thoughts?

tsanga

09-29-09, 03:52 PM

5. I'd go with either WD Green or Seagate Barracuda LP. Both are low power and cooler and better (more reliable) than Samsung.

NFLnut

09-29-09, 07:01 PM

Okay, that's really cool!

Is there a way to turn the LCD off (or have it go to sleep like a regular desktop LCD) when not in use? When I'm watching a movie, all lights are off in the theater and and displays on my AV equipment are set to dim (or off.)

TBH, I am just now building my HTPC and haven't yet gotten everything running yet, but being that the touchscreen is just treated as another monitor in the Windows system, there SHOULD be the capability to use the power settings under device manager to turn the touchscreen off after a given amount of time of non-use. I would also imagine that there is a script that could be written to do such a thing once you start playing video. There are also probably user-selectable settings with the iMon software to do such a thing. It is home theater software, after all.

I will let you know in a few days if you would like to know, unless there are others on this forum who might be able to tell definitively.

The Gyration sounds really nice, but I'm torn. I like the idea of a RF handheld "mouse", but I am already certain I will be using a Harmony 890 remote (already ordered), in part because I love my existing 880 so much and because it's going to control the room lighting via a Z-Wave lightswitch from leviton.

At this point, waffling on the 7" LCD on the case, but pretty sure I will go for an RF keyboard for those occasions it's needed, and thinking if the keyboard has a touch pad or trackball, that might do and help me avoid needing more than one controller.

The Gyration remote merely serves as a handheld, wireless mouse for the HTPC. It doesn't serve as a remote for your other a/v equipment, although it does have the capability to serve as a learning remote to control other devices. But the Gyration remote does not serve as a systems remote, it is more of a mouse. One really nice thing about the Gyration Air Mouse is that it is an rf-remote. Therefore, let's say that you are upstairs in the kitchen, you can control the HTPC which would be in your basement theater without IR repeaters. Granted, you woud have to route the video to monitors throughout the house to do so, but you could watch a movie or listen to music from your basement theater HTPC in your bedroom upstairs.

The rf- capability is what sold me on the Gyration, plus the gyro sensors which works essentially like a Wii remote (without needing the sensor bar in front of you) to move the mouse pointer around the screen.

And yes, there are other manufacturers who make wireless keyboards with a trackball/pointing stick so that you don't have to have two separate devices if you wish.

BTW -- I looked at your Home Theater thread. NICE! This is when I envy you guys up north who have basements! :cool: I'd love to have basement for a dedicated HT!

bmcent1

09-29-09, 07:55 PM

Still pondering the best low power head option for HTPC w/ projector. The odd thing is the price...

For $250, I could buy a fully functional Netbook (new, retail) which could VNC/remote desktop into the HTPC as needed and give traditional keyboard and touchpad control, small LCD display, and wireless operation (VNC paired with existing Wifi.) It could sit on the equipment stack closed and unnoticed until needed, or even move to a different room of the house or go on vacation when not needed in the theater.

More conventional approach is a 17" LCD (I can't find anything retail and cheap this is smaller) at $105, plus i-Rocks 2.4 GHz wireless keyboard and mouse at $50, bringing this to option $155. It's $100 cheaper than the Netbook, but means an LCD becomes a permanent, high profile part of the equipment stack.

Option 3 is just using the projector as the full time display, but at $300 plus for replacement bulb, and 3000 hrs lifetime you could go through a bulb pretty quick just streaming Pandora. Also, it's over $50/yr in electricity for the projector alone if it's used 8 hrs a day while music plays.

Thinking maybe e-Bay for an old Laptop (for VNC) or for an older, smaller, cheap LCD might be viable.

bmcent1

09-29-09, 08:02 PM

@NFLnut -
Thanks for the compliments on my theater! I'm really excited now, it's finished except for finding chairs that I like and getting a proper case for the HTPC so it can sit on the equipment rack. I hope to have it cleaned up enough soon to do some proper finished pics.

I hadn't seen your reply when I just made my previous post. Please do keep me posted on the touch screen! Looking at the cost, it's no more expensive that the other options I came up with (when I account for the price of the Antec Steel Fusion Remote Max case I plan to buy if I don't go with a 7" LCD case.)

... so really it comes down to whether it integrates smoothly and offers broad control. I'm really curious how it works out, so please keep me posted! (Maybe even a PM if you make a post to the forum, just so I don't loose it in this active thread.)

BTW, do you have an attic or attached garage? I have to say, it's been 2 years in the making, but it's unbelievable having the dedicated theater room. The sound proofing and the performance of the sound treatments are better that I ever expected!

Tijs_Verwest

09-29-09, 11:25 PM

Picopsu is a brand of small psus? or is it a type of psu? cuz the only place i can buy them is mini-box.com , im confused :o

boha

09-30-09, 03:39 AM

bobby_t1

09-30-09, 04:27 AM

@bobby_t1
Im also building miniITX HTPC like you. I will probably choose Silverstone case, because Silverstone supports bigger graphic cards. I will probably add one in future.

Btw what are you going to use to control HTPC ?

I already have a Windows Vista/7 certified IR reader. Just get any of them and you'll be fine, e.g:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880121001&cm_re=media_center_IR_receiver-_-80-121-001-_-Product

bobby_t1

09-30-09, 05:26 AM

So in my latest iteration of planning my HD HTPC, I"m thinking of going with the Zotac 9300 but instead of the Apex Mii-008, go with the Silverstone Sugo SG05 for greater expandability.

However, not sure if I'm able to fit full size video card and TV tuner card in the box. Later on I might want cable card for example.

I'm mostly confused by some of info in this thread. Seems like in many cases, ppl are saying that IGP is more than sufficient for all video playback, even Blu-ray at 60hz (e.g. Zotac 9300 with Nvidia 9300 IGP). However, in other cases, I see recommendations to upgrade to a discrete video card such as the ATI 4550 or even the 4670.

Help alleviate my confusion :) This is strictly for an HTPC, no gaming, no media encoding. Only video playback of SD, HD, MKV and Blu-ray.

nalooti

09-30-09, 10:49 AM

nalooti

You shouldn't worry about the difference of power consumption between Pentium Dual-Core (any) and Core 2 Duo E7xxx. These processors run very cool. Check this figure (http://www.behardware.com/articles/717-2/intel-core-2-q9300-e7200.html).

I am not sure if Scythe BIG Shuriken fits the case. The stock CPU cooler is usually good enough (very quiet and powerful for these "25W" processors.)

Don't worry about fan noise. Control fan speed with Zalman Fan Mate 2 (http://www.google.com/products?q=Zalman+Fan+Mate+2).

HD video is good but 3D performance is poor. ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E is better in this point but it has only two SATA ports. So you need to compromise.

Video encoding with a dual core takes long time. A quad core is roughly twice faster. Check the compatible CPU list (http://processormatch.intel.com/CompDB/SearchResult.aspx?Boardname=dg45fc). Among them Q9505 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115060) is the best ($230, not too expensive [?] and fastest).

Hi renethx,

I was surfing the web looking for some Chenbro review and saw the "logicsupply" board. People in this board seem to say that the Intel DG45FC Motherboard using a desktop CPU generate too much heat and draw too much power than the supplied 120W brick can handle (although I haven't seen anyone using those "green" 5400rpm HDD, they all use 7200rpm disks).
Also, the discussions date back to 2008 and early 2009. I wonder what CPU they used with that MB. It is also possible that the MB itself generate too much heat and consumes too much power. I'll search for the required power of this MB but if you have any info I'd be very interested to know.

They generally prefer Mobile CPU on Desktop. I remember, you once said that Intel doesn't make anymore Mobile MB for consumers (I'm maybe wrong with that statement but that was something similar) because desktop CPU already consumes so little power. But it seems people in this board keep going with that scheme: using Mobile CPUs.

I'll post there some questions and the configuration you suggested to see what they answer, but in the meantime I'd like to propose you another configuration I got from there (http://www.logicsupply.com/blog/2008/03/27/the-chenbro-es34069-case-review-part-1/) to know what do you think of. Please note that all those discussions are around using the Chenbro case i.e. they start with Chenbro and see what they can put in it. So, I'd like to ask you to look at our conf again specially with the Chenbro case in mind.
Also, when giving me your advice on the following conf, don't forget it is based on the Chenbro case. Here is the conf:

- Intel Core 2 Duo T8300 2.4 GHz processor
- Coolermaster EPN-41CSS-01 Core 2 Duo Mobile CPU Cooler
- Gigabyte GA-6KIEH-RH

What do you think about it? How it compares to the conf you initially suggested (Core2Duo E7600, 3.06GHz, 1066MHz, 3MB, 65W + Intel DG45FC)

I just don't know how to thank you!
nalooti

renethx

09-30-09, 11:53 AM

nalooti

Just get the 180W version and you should be fine. The max power consumption of a system consisting of a Core 2 Duo/Pentium Dual Core processor, DF45FC, two stick of memory, an optical drive and five HDDs is around 120W-130W. Unfortunately it looks like the quality of Cenbro PSU is not so good, that's the cause of wrong complaints that DG45FC is power-hungry.

As MoDT was dead a long time ago, you won't be able to find a MoDT mb with the latest IGP GM45 (except for AOpen and MSI?). GA-6KIEH-RH uses the two-year-old chipset GM965 that lacks hardware HD video decode acceleration, causing stuttering with a weak mobile processor. Anyway MoDT is not worth considering (both mb and CPU are too expensive).

bobby_t1

09-30-09, 02:04 PM

hottoq

09-30-09, 04:50 PM

tsanga

09-30-09, 04:54 PM

renethx

woudl love some input to my question if possible.. i'm about to pull the trigger on a system:

I'm mostly confused by some of info in this thread. Seems like in many cases, ppl are saying that IGP is more than sufficient for all video playback, even Blu-ray at 60hz (e.g. Zotac 9300 with Nvidia 9300 IGP). However, in other cases, I see recommendations to upgrade to a discrete video card such as the ATI 4550 or even the 4670.

Help alleviate my confusion This is strictly for an HTPC, no gaming, no media encoding. Only video playback of SD, HD, MKV and Blu-ray.

In my experience, IGP was good enough for many things (Blu-ray is relatively easy, all progressive, not much post processing). However, the IGP is not powerful enough to do a really good job de-interlacing, e.g. OTA broadcasts at 1080i. What level of de-interlacing is "good enough" is a matter of personal discretion. For me, I wanted the highest level of performance with OTA material (why build HTPC if one of its perks is you can tweak it to give you the best possible output).

cableuser001

09-30-09, 06:27 PM

I am in the exact same boat.

You should account for a good remote control or keyboard. Good ones run from $30-$150. Check reviews and add that to your total. You didn't account for the cost of OS and misc parts (glue, cables etc). $570+$100+$30+$15=$715

1. Should be easy.

2. Don't know. If you buy from a reliable vendor, with good return policy, non-working parts can be returnable.

3. Quad core might be better. I would suggest to spend more on the case, power supply and the motherboard. Others can be upgraded easily. I experimented with a Dell Q6600 with two ATSC tuners. The switch between one channel to other (on vista media center) was NOT impressive. May be dual TV tuner will solve the issue

4. If you buy a OEM Vista , you would get win7 dvd upgrade free (may be shipping needs to be paid). Either way is OK. May be, Vista will have better than Win 7 in the initial year..?

Hi all, I am about to pull the trigger on building my first HTPC. Never built a computer so far, so I'm a complete newbie and may need some handholding. I primarily plan to use the HTPC to watch and DVR TV coming in from my ATSC antenna. Also to watch shows on Hulu, Netflix, etc. Don't need it for BluRay, got a PS3 for that.

Here are the specs I'm looking at so far:

AMD Athlon II X4 2.6GHz
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GPMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB
LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM
hec Black 0.7mm Thickness SECC 7K09 Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner / Encoder 1229 PCI-Express x1

Total comes to ~$570.

1. Is it really as easy as everyone says to build your own PC? I'm pretty experienced software-wise, but haven't played around much with hardware. Does everything come with instructions?

2. Will everything listed above actually work together?

3. Am I going overboard here? Do I actually need a quad core CPU and 4GB of RAM? Bumping down to dual core/2 GB would get me about $80 back. But I really don't want any video stuttering... and I want this PC to last me 4 years at least.

4. I wanted to wait until Win7 comes out, but couldn't I download Win7 RC now and use that until Oct 22nd? Or is it better to just have some patience and wait?

Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

cableuser001

09-30-09, 06:33 PM

Hi,
I am in the market for a new desktop PC. I could build a PC, but want to save myself some hassle and buy a standard desktop. My question:

1. Of Dell and HP, which one uses standards parts (PSU, Motherboards, Connectors), which could later be upgraded.

I am between "HP e9150t" and "Dell XPS Studio". I am not concerned about the price now, but the path of upgradability (in 2-3 years).

I have an old Dell desktop, which I discovered uses non-standard motherboard (or may be the mounting holes) and non-standards power supply. So couldn't upgraded it. Would buying from Dell and HP NOW, result in a similar situation?

Any input is appreciated.

Thanks.

dbone1026

09-30-09, 08:27 PM

4. If you buy a OEM Vista , you would get win7 dvd upgrade free (may be shipping needs to be paid). Either way is OK. May be, Vista will have better than Win 7 in the initial year..?

I would wait to buy W7 RTM. Technically the RC is not available to new users. If you "look around" you can find a copy of W7 RTM which will give you a 30 day trial period to test it out. Don't bother Vista (not a Vista hater as I have Vista on all of my pcs). I am probably going to get a Technet Plus subscription so I can get the W7 RTMs now (I am going to need 4 so makes sense)

cableuser001

09-30-09, 08:33 PM

I am not aware of Technet Plus.I looked up, but it is not clear what benefits. I am not a developer, so would you care to explain?
I am probably going to get a Technet Plus subscription so I can get the W7 RTMs now (I am going to need 4 so makes sense)

dbone1026

09-30-09, 08:42 PM

I am not aware of Technet Plus.I looked up, but it is not clear what benefits. I am not a developer, so would you care to explain?

Basically by signing up you get access to a whole slew of microsoft software. For instance, you can get up to 10 W7 licenses, as well as Office 2010, WHS, etc... The subscription runs for about $300 for the first year (there are promo codes to get it down to around $260) and about $250 a year afterwards. This would give you access to the W7 RTM now

bobby_t1

09-30-09, 09:37 PM

Marc_G

09-30-09, 10:20 PM

In my experience, IGP was good enough for many things (Blu-ray is relatively easy, all progressive, not much post processing). However, the IGP is not powerful enough to do a really good job de-interlacing, e.g. OTA broadcasts at 1080i. What level of de-interlacing is "good enough" is a matter of personal discretion. For me, I wanted the highest level of performance with OTA material (why build HTPC if one of its perks is you can tweak it to give you the best possible output).

+1

I bought a motherboard with an HD3200 based graphics chip with it's own sideboard RAM, thinking it would likely be enough.

As Rene says, "enough" is highly subjective. It played anything I wanted, but I was never satisfied with the video quality. There were issues with fuzzy SD content, and 1080i TV never quite looked "right" in ways that I don't have command of vocabulary to describe. BluRay MKVs were great but playing BD disks through PowerDVD had issues with black levels. All manner of tweaking was tried and it just didn't really look right. And the desktop just looked bad (fuzzy) on my 1080i plasma.

Then I bought a cheap fanless (silent!) Sapphire 4550 (on sale for $35 including shipping from the Egg at the time), plugged it in, and BAM everything was perfect. SD content looked great, TV was beautiful, BD's looked awesome either as ripped MKVs or played with PowerDVD. Best $35 I ever spent.

Marc

bobby_t1

09-30-09, 11:06 PM

+1

I bought a motherboard with an HD3200 based graphics chip with it's own sideboard RAM, thinking it would likely be enough.

As Rene says, "enough" is highly subjective. It played anything I wanted, but I was never satisfied with the video quality. There were issues with fuzzy SD content, and 1080i TV never quite looked "right" in ways that I don't have command of vocabulary to describe. BluRay MKVs were great but playing BD disks through PowerDVD had issues with black levels. All manner of tweaking was tried and it just didn't really look right. And the desktop just looked bad (fuzzy) on my 1080i plasma.

Then I bought a cheap fanless (silent!) Sapphire 4550 (on sale for $35 including shipping from the Egg at the time), plugged it in, and BAM everything was perfect. SD content looked great, TV was beautiful, BD's looked awesome either as ripped MKVs or played with PowerDVD. Best $35 I ever spent.

Marc

My impression was that the Nvidia 9300/9400 IGPs on these motherboards are far better than ATI HD3500 chipset cards. Is this not the case?

tsanga

09-30-09, 11:19 PM

I don't have cable TV currently, but was thinking of using and HDHomerun to get unencrypted QAM HD from comcast. In this case, my impression is the HDHomerun does the de-interlacing thus would NOT fall into the IGP limitations you mentioned. Am I correct?

Clear QAM is all digital. The HDHR just captures the digital stream and spits it out over the network. It performs no video processing.

So the decoding and deinterlacing would still have to be done at the HTPC.

bobby_t1

09-30-09, 11:39 PM

Thanks for the info.

I'm ditching the idea of the Apex Mii-008 or Mii-100 cases as they are too small now since I'll need a discrete video card.

Here's my proposed build:

* CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775
* CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT07-775
* Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
* Graphics Card: ATI 4650, 4670 or 4850
* HDD: WD Caviar Green WD15EADS 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
* PSU: SFX 300W 80Plus (included in the case)
* Drive: Silverstone TOB02 slim blu-ray drive
* Case: Silverstone Sugo SG05

Again, I'm only concerned about media playback not creation. This includes MKV, 1080p rips, 1080i de-interlacing (HDHomerun). No gaming or media encoding.

Going up to the Silverstone SG05 seems to give me the best compromise in (a) cooling (b) small size and (c) ability to add a discrete video card.

I'll likely wait for the new Zotac 9300-G-E board coming out in October, as it is supposed the 4th rev of the PCB and will include a 3rd SATA connection as well as support wake-from-USB so you can power up from S3 standby.

Questions:

(1) General thoughts on the above setup?

(2) Which graphics card do people recommend? I am confused with all the recommendations for various cards and not sure which is best for me -- ATI 4650, 4670 or 4850.

(3) Active or passive cooling? I prefer passive to decrease noise, but i know this means larger heatsinks/radiators which might be a probelm with the Silverstone case.

(4) What CPU heatsink and fan do ppl recommend?

(5) Do I need to add or replace any of the case fans?

renethx

10-01-09, 12:59 AM

Thanks for the info.

I'm ditching the idea of the Apex Mii-008 or Mii-100 cases as they are too small now since I'll need a discrete video card.

Here's my proposed build:

* CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775
* CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT07-775
* Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
* Graphics Card: ATI 4650, 4670 or 4850
* HDD: WD Caviar Green WD15EADS 1.5TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5"
* PSU: SFX 300W 80Plus (included in the case)
* Drive: Silverstone TOB02 slim blu-ray drive
* Case: Silverstone Sugo SG05

Again, I'm only concerned about media playback not creation. This includes MKV, 1080p rips, 1080i de-interlacing (HDHomerun). No gaming or media encoding.

Going up to the Silverstone SG05 seems to give me the best compromise in (a) cooling (b) small size and (c) ability to add a discrete video card.

Questions:

(1) General thoughts on the above setup?

(2) Which graphics card do people recommend? I am confused with all the recommendations for various cards and not sure which is best for me -- ATI 4650, 4670 or 4850.

(3) Active or passive cooling? I prefer passive to decrease noise, but i know this means larger heatsinks/radiators which might be a probelm with the Silverstone case.

(4) What CPU heatsink and fan do ppl recommend?

(5) Do I need to add or replace any of the case fans?
For starters, you don't need a third-party CPU cooler. The max power consumption of E5300 is < 30W and the stock cooler is good and quiet enough. SilverStone NT07-775 is intended for MI-008 (short enough for the case). If you are interested in third-party CPU cooler and case fan, check this article (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article968-page4.html) first. You even don't need a discrete graphics card. Try IGP first. You can add a discrete card anytime later. The new ATI Radeon HD 5xxx supports HD audio bitstreams (if you are interested) and all the lineup will be released gradually by Q1 '10.

renethx

10-01-09, 01:24 AM

Hi all, I am about to pull the trigger on building my first HTPC. Never built a computer so far, so I'm a complete newbie and may need some handholding. I primarily plan to use the HTPC to watch and DVR TV coming in from my ATSC antenna. Also to watch shows on Hulu, Netflix, etc. Don't need it for BluRay, got a PS3 for that.

Here are the specs I'm looking at so far:

AMD Athlon II X4 2.6GHz
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GPMT-UD2H AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM
Western Digital Caviar Green WD10EADS 1TB
LITE-ON Black IDE DVD-ROM
hec Black 0.7mm Thickness SECC 7K09 Micro ATX Media Center / HTPC Case
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 Dual TV Tuner / Encoder 1229 PCI-Express x1

Total comes to ~$570.

1. Is it really as easy as everyone says to build your own PC? I'm pretty experienced software-wise, but haven't played around much with hardware. Does everything come with instructions?

2. Will everything listed above actually work together?

3. Am I going overboard here? Do I actually need a quad core CPU and 4GB of RAM? Bumping down to dual core/2 GB would get me about $80 back. But I really don't want any video stuttering... and I want this PC to last me 4 years at least.

4. I wanted to wait until Win7 comes out, but couldn't I download Win7 RC now and use that until Oct 22nd? Or is it better to just have some patience and wait?

Any information you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!
Actually assembling a PC is quite easy for many people. (A good online resource is Computer-building resource thread (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=27&threadid=2072469&enterthread=y).) Installing OS is also easy. More difficult part is configure applications properly. But you know what I mean if you are pretty experienced software-wise.

Yes the system works fine (if configured properly software-wise).

Dual-core processor is enough unless you do CPU intensive tasks such as video re-encoding. You can even go for DDR2 SDRAM if you want save money. DDR3 will be reusable in case you build a new system in future (in less than four years; after that DDR4 may be the mainstream SDARM). Check the microATX low-end AMD/AMD system on page 85.

You can download Windows 7 RTM here (http://www.mydigitallife.info/2009/07/19/windows-7-rtm-build-7600-16385-x86-and-x64-leaked-extracted-dvd-iso-download/). You can extend the 30 day trial period up to three times, for 30 x 4 = 120 days by rearm (http://www.mydigitallife.info/2008/11/06/how-to-rearm-and-extend-free-usage-activation-grace-period-of-windows-7-to-120-days/). After that you have to get a valid license key. You don't have to reinstall Windows 7; just activate it. But you have to install the correct edition (Home Premium, Professional, or Ultimate) you are going to use in future.

bobby_t1

10-01-09, 04:10 AM

For starters, you don't need a third-party CPU cooler. The max power consumption of E5300 is < 30W and the stock cooler is good and quiet enough. SilverStone NT07-775 is intended for MI-008 (short enough for the case). If you are interested in third-party CPU cooler and case fan, check this article (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article968-page4.html) first. You even don't need a discrete graphics card. Try IGP first. You can add a discrete card anytime later. The new ATI Radeon HD 5xxx supports HD audio bitstreams (if you are interested) and all the lineup will be released gradually by Q1 '10.

Thanks for chiming in. It seems that there is disagreement over the capabilities of an IGP for de-interlacing video. But you're right, I could try it without for now to save money and upgrade later on. Seems like if I go w/ the Silverstone SG05 case, I'll have the expansion room i need.

dbone1026

10-01-09, 08:31 AM

I am happy to report that I finally have my Media Server build up and running. It took over a month longer then expected due to hardware problems (I ended up have to return 2 of the chenbro hot swap hdd cages TWICE due to faulty cages).

You can see the exact specs of the build (pretty much right in line with Renethx's 16 HDD Chenbro build) here. (http://www.mediasmartserver.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=5045)

Also, I just finished documenting doing a server recovery with WHS to move all my data from my HP MediaSmart Server to the new build. You can check it out here. (http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2009/09/30/using-server-recovery-on-a-diy-windows-home-server/)

grittree

10-01-09, 08:52 AM

Again, I'm only concerned about media playback not creation. This includes MKV, 1080p rips, 1080i de-interlacing (HDHomerun). No gaming or media encoding.

As tsanga said, digital tuners do nothing but capture the bits. HDHR is no different in this regard than any other digital tuner. Your graphics card does the de-interlacing for 1080i video.

tsanga

10-01-09, 09:36 AM

Thanks for chiming in. It seems that there is disagreement over the capabilities of an IGP for de-interlacing video. But you're right, I could try it without for now to save money and upgrade later on. Seems like if I go w/ the Silverstone SG05 case, I'll have the expansion room i need.

There's no disagreement on the actual deinterlacing performance - see this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1157287) or this page (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/media-playback_6.html). The question is what's good enough for you and your eyes? See if it's good enough first - if you want better PQ then add the discrete card. The HD 5xxx series will be very good; if you don't want to wait then HD 4670 is the minimum to maximize PQ.

hottoq

10-01-09, 10:21 AM

hottoq

10-01-09, 11:08 AM

Actually assembling a PC is quite easy for many people. (A good online resource is Computer-building resource threadInstalling OS is also easy. More difficult part is configure applications properly. But you know what I mean if you are pretty experienced software-wise.

Yes the system works fine (if configured properly software-wise).

Dual-core processor is enough unless you do CPU intensive tasks such as video re-encoding. You can even go for DDR2 SDRAM if you want save money. DDR3 will be reusable in case you build a new system in future (in less than four years; after that DDR4 may be the mainstream SDARM). Check the microATX low-end AMD/AMD system on page 85.

You can download Windows 7 RTM You can extend the 30 day trial period up to three times, for 30 x 4 = 120 days by After that you have to get a valid license key. You don't have to reinstall Windows 7; just activate it. But you have to install the correct edition (Home Premium, Professional, or Ultimate) you are going to use in future.

Thanks renethx! Yeah, I'm not doing anything real intensive like video reencoding, just watching and recording TV. I like your microATX low-end AMD/AMD system, maybe I'll switch to that instead of the build I was putting together.

1. What is better to splurge on, more RAM (going from 2 GB to 4 GB) or CPU (going from dual core to quad core)? Might just skip the splurging altogether since cost is a factor (and since these 2 things are easily upgradeable), but would still like to know which is more important :)

2. Regarding Windows 7 RTM, you say that I just have to activate it after that period. I can get Win7 through that student program, so if I get the RTM now and then get my copy of Win7 through the student program, can I just use the license key I get with that to activate the RTM build? I definitely don't want to have to reinstall.

3. Thinking about substituting the Radeon 4670 into your build since it's only $30 or so more, and would love to be able to play at least some games on the media PC. Any reasons for me not to do this that anyone can think of?

Thanks so much for your help!!

renethx

10-01-09, 11:41 AM

Thanks renethx! Yeah, I'm not doing anything real intensive like video reencoding, just watching and recording TV. I like your microATX low-end AMD/AMD system, maybe I'll switch to that instead of the build I was putting together.

1. What is better to splurge on, more RAM (going from 2 GB to 4 GB) or CPU (going from dual core to quad core)? Might just skip the splurging altogether since cost is a factor (and since these 2 things are easily upgradeable), but would still like to know which is more important :)

2. Regarding Windows 7 RTM, you say that I just have to activate it after that period. I can get Win7 through that student program, so if I get the RTM now and then get my copy of Win7 through the student program, can I just use the license key I get with that to activate the RTM build? I definitely don't want to have to reinstall.

Thanks so much for your help!!
If price matters, dual-core + 2x1GB RAM is good enough for watching/recording TV.

Perhaps all right, no guarantee though.

hottoq

10-01-09, 04:12 PM

If price matters, dual-core + 2x1GB RAM is good enough for watching/recording TV.

Perhaps all right, no guarantee though.

OK cool, thanks very much! Maybe I'll wait for Win7 to get released to the public. Can I order the parts now and put everything together, make sure it boots up to the BIOS and everything? Then, if something isn't working, I can get it sent back before Win7 actually releases?

cytho

10-01-09, 04:40 PM

Tsanga: thanks for the input.

I don't have cable TV currently, but was thinking of using and HDHomerun to get unencrypted QAM HD from comcast. In this case, my impression is the HDHomerun does the de-interlacing thus would NOT fall into the IGP limitations you mentioned. Am I correct?

Bobby-

Do not plan on the unencrypted QAM to be there much longer, if you haven't heard it IS going to be encrypted just to let you know I would wait and get a tuner later that will allow for the use of a multi stream cable card.

and NO I'm not lying I work for them.

tsanga

10-01-09, 05:34 PM

cytho

10-01-09, 05:56 PM

I heard this too. Is this by market or everywhere?

It is everywhere but only being rolled out by market so EVENTUALLY it will be everywhere, but release dates do vary based on markets.

I am very much waiting for the time when the cable card/tuner devices come out

dbone1026

10-01-09, 07:18 PM

It is everywhere but only being rolled out by market so EVENTUALLY it will be everywhere, but release dates do vary based on markets.

I am very much waiting for the time when the cable card/tuner devices come out

Even for the local channels? I would think you would need to make some basic channels available via OTA or however else without forcing someone to get a box from some cable/sat company

bobby_t1

10-02-09, 12:46 AM

Bobby-

Do not plan on the unencrypted QAM to be there much longer, if you haven't heard it IS going to be encrypted just to let you know I would wait and get a tuner later that will allow for the use of a multi stream cable card.

and NO I'm not lying I work for them.

Thanks for the info.. didn't realize this was happening. I actually already have an HDhomerun from a previous HTPC I built way, way back, so this new HTPC is giving me an excuse to pull it out again :)

rizorith

10-02-09, 02:57 AM

Clear QAM is all digital. The HDHR just captures the digital stream and spits it out over the network. It performs no video processing.

So the decoding and deinterlacing would still have to be done at the HTPC.

Sorry to hijack your question but now I'm a bit confused on QAM. If I want to watch QAM and already have a QAM tuner in my TV (which I believe most newer lcd's and plasma's have), what does my computer have to do with the quality of it? Isn't the feed going directly into the tv and bypassing the computer? Or is this for recording and playback?

I disconnected my cable recently since I'm going to be moving but I noticed that if I plug the coax into my tv directly I get the local HD channels and about 75 of the basic SD cable channels. Isn't this what you guys are talking about?

renethx

10-02-09, 03:00 AM

OK cool, thanks very much! Maybe I'll wait for Win7 to get released to the public. Can I order the parts now and put everything together, make sure it boots up to the BIOS and everything? Then, if something isn't working, I can get it sent back before Win7 actually releases?
Yes.

hottoq

10-02-09, 11:08 AM

tsanga

10-02-09, 11:36 AM

OK, here's what I'm currently stressing out over: the case.

I'd like to keep the case <$100, but then the power supply becomes an issue. The one I'm currently looking at is the hec Black 0.7mm Thickness SECC 7K09 for $55. However, it only has a 270W psu. In the AMD/AMD build, you recommend getting an additional SAPPHIRE Radeon card, but on their web site it says the minimum requirements are a 300W psu.

The antec you recommend isn't available on NewEgg anymore and doesn't have many reviews anywhere else. Are there any other options for me that'll be around this same price point, or do you think I'm OK going with the hec case w/ 270W psu?

Thanks!

270W PSU will be totally fine. Typical power draw during movie playback is <100W. Max power draw is probably ~150W.

renethx

10-02-09, 11:36 AM

OK, here's what I'm currently stressing out over: the case.

I'd like to keep the case <$100, but then the power supply becomes an issue. The one I'm currently looking at is the hec Black 0.7mm Thickness SECC 7K09 for $55. However, it only has a 270W psu. In the AMD/AMD build, you recommend getting an additional SAPPHIRE Radeon card, but on their web site it says the minimum requirements are a 300W psu.

The antec you recommend isn't available on NewEgg anymore and doesn't have many reviews anywhere else. Are there any other options for me that'll be around this same price point, or do you think I'm OK going with the hec case w/ 270W psu?

Thanks!
I have never seen the max power consumption of the microATX midrange AMD/AMD system (quad-core + HD 4670) exceed 200W (Kill-A-WATT).

Use Google Product Search (http://www.google.com/products). Select a seller with > 1,000 ratings and at least 4 stars, and you will be fine. E.g. Provantage.com.

tsanga

10-02-09, 11:40 AM

Sorry to hijack your question but now I'm a bit confused on QAM. If I want to watch QAM and already have a QAM tuner in my TV (which I believe most newer lcd's and plasma's have), what does my computer have to do with the quality of it? Isn't the feed going directly into the tv and bypassing the computer? Or is this for recording and playback?

I disconnected my cable recently since I'm going to be moving but I noticed that if I plug the coax into my tv directly I get the local HD channels and about 75 of the basic SD cable channels. Isn't this what you guys are talking about?

Yes, you can watch unencrypted (clear) QAM using your TV tuner. But we build HTPCs so we can record the programming and watch it later (time-shift), FF/RW, and skip commercials. To do this, the feed goes into the HTPC (or other digital tuner). In that case, the HTPC has to decode and process the video (e.g. de-interlace 1080i broadcast).

dbone1026

10-02-09, 11:41 AM

I have never seen the max power consumption of the microATX midrange AMD/AMD system (quad-core + HD 4670) exceed 200W (Kill-A-WATT).

Use Google Product Search (http://www.google.com/products). Select a seller with > 1,000 ratings and at least 4 stars, and you will be fine. E.g. Provantage.com.

Provantage.com is a good site. Only thing to be aware of, they are very slow to refund money if you RMA a product. They said it takes 10-14 business days after the RMA unit has been received for them to recredit your account, and generally Visa delays this by another 5 business days. I am still waiting to get funds recredited to my account for an RMA that was returned and received over three weeks ago.

hottoq

10-02-09, 12:05 PM

Tsanga and Renethx, thanks! So 270W should be fine, even if I add the extra Sapphire Radeon card mentioned in the low end AMD/AMD config? I probably won't buy that initially, but would like the option of adding it down the road.

Btw, you guys have been a huge help :)

tsanga

10-02-09, 12:24 PM

Tsanga and Renethx, thanks! So 270W should be fine, even if I add the extra Sapphire Radeon card mentioned in the low end AMD/AMD config?

Yep

LesMoss

10-02-09, 02:14 PM

Even for the local channels? I would think you would need to make some basic channels available via OTA or however else without forcing someone to get a box from some cable/sat company

FCC requires the OTA locals to be delivered unencrypted by cable companies. Most cable companies encrypt everything else already.

miimura

10-02-09, 03:34 PM

Bobby-

Do not plan on the unencrypted QAM to be there much longer, if you haven't heard it IS going to be encrypted just to let you know I would wait and get a tuner later that will allow for the use of a multi stream cable card.

and NO I'm not lying I work for them.HD Locals like NBC/ABC/CBS/Fox will continue to be available in the clear. It's the "Expanded Basic" channels in SD like ESPN/CNN/MTV that will probably be encrypted in the future. The reason that they're not now is that the cheap converter boxes that are allowing the cable companies to go digital for Expanded Basic channels can't do the same kind of encryption that is used for the rest of the digital cable channels. If they did, they would have to use CableCARD (Separable Security) and that's just too expensive for these cheapie boxes. So, they will use "privacy mode" which is a simpler digital scrambling system. The application of this method of digital scrambling was just approved by the FCC recently.

Personally, I find this method to be a kind of underhanded move by the cable companies to get people to use their full function digital cable boxes. The only people who would be accessing these clear QAM channels would be people who subscribe to Expanded Basic or higher anyway. They can prevent "Theft of Service" by Limited Basic subscribers the same way they always have - using a notch filter at the curb/pole where the cable splits off to go to the subscriber. As it is now during the transition time, even Limited Basic subs can see the Expanded Basic SD QAM channels because they have not moved the channels back into the notch filter band.
IMHO, they should not scramble/encrypt the channels, they should move them back into the notch filter band and allow the rest of us full subscribers continue to use whatever equipment we like to tune these Expanded Basic channels.

- Mike

darkranex

10-02-09, 03:35 PM

renethx,

Thanks for all the information you've provided for people and taking the time to help us all out.

I've been researching the ins and outs of HTPC building and the types of things I want it to do for about a month now. I think I've figured out how to do most of what I want and am ready to start putting together a parts list. The only real thing standing in my way is figuring out the most cost effective solution would be based on the demands. I can get an idea of what would be feasible for my normal situations, it is just the heaviest workload that I am unsure about.

The HTPC I build would be used right now for watching ripped DVDs and Blurays stored on a NAS. Once cablecard tuners are released, I should be able to drop it into the HTPC and beginning recording tv on it as well. This brings me to the worst-case scenario for heavy workload: recording 3 HD shows at one time while watching a 4th HD show (live or recorded) or recording 3 or 4 HD shows while watching a 1080p movie stored on the NAS (HD Audio should pass through to my receiver).

I don't really know what kind of processing power would be needed to handle that workload and I don't know if that is even a heavy workload to begin with.

I am guessing I would need something in the High-End range on page 85, but if something Mid-Range would be sufficiently worthy of handling that workload then that would be awesome. Obviously no one has experience with those tuners yet since they are not out yet, but if Mid-Range systems handle current dual tuners with ease, then I don't think adding an additional stream or two would pose a problem.

I don't foresee that situation being routinely common, but I know it will happen and want to make sure I build an HTPC capable of handling it.

Any thoughts are appreciated. :)

djsunyc

10-02-09, 04:38 PM

with the mini-itx setup:

Intel/NVIDIA

System

* CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5300 2.60GHz 2MB L2 LGA775, $64.
* CPU Cooler: SilverStone NT07-775, $20.
* Motherboard: ZOTAC GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi GF9300-D-E LGA775 GeForce 9300 mGPU Mini-ITX, $140.
* Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $32.
* Graphics Card: GeForce 9300 (integrated in the chipset), $0.
* HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA 3.0Gbps, $70.
* PSU: ATX12V 250W SFX PSU (included in the case): $0.
* Case: Apex MI-008 Mini-ITX, $40. An alternative is Apex MI-100BK Mini-ITX, $48.
* Total Cost: $366

will i be able to get dolby 5.1 out of the s/pdif to my stereo receiver while sending the hdmi signal to my projector?

bobby_t1

10-02-09, 06:47 PM

with the mini-itx setup:

will i be able to get dolby 5.1 out of the s/pdif to my stereo receiver while sending the hdmi signal to my projector?

Yes

ssilverado60

10-02-09, 08:27 PM

with the mini-itx setup:

will i be able to get dolby 5.1 out of the s/pdif to my stereo receiver while sending the hdmi signal to my projector?

yup

bmcent1

10-02-09, 09:36 PM

I need a black case for my HTPC, but I don't have my heart set on an HTPC ($$$) case.

Looking for a good case that fits an ATX mobo, and has USB on the front, and at least 5.25" Bay. Brushed aluminum or similar to match AV components would be nice but not necessary.

Most of all, I want a quiet case that will fit my components (including Sapphire 4670 and most of the parts from the Mid-range/High-end system.

I can't get the SilverStone LASCALA LC17 from NewEgg or I'd probably go with it.

I've decided to go with a Anyware GP-IR01BK remote, which includes a USB IR sensor. So I don't need that built into the case. Also don't need the 7" LCD on the case (for now, might still pine for it later :-)

Any recommendations?

Anything has to be better than this white generic case I'm using now.

bobby_t1

10-02-09, 11:09 PM

renethx

10-03-09, 01:23 AM

renethx,

Thanks for all the information you've provided for people and taking the time to help us all out.

I've been researching the ins and outs of HTPC building and the types of things I want it to do for about a month now. I think I've figured out how to do most of what I want and am ready to start putting together a parts list. The only real thing standing in my way is figuring out the most cost effective solution would be based on the demands. I can get an idea of what would be feasible for my normal situations, it is just the heaviest workload that I am unsure about.

The HTPC I build would be used right now for watching ripped DVDs and Blurays stored on a NAS. Once cablecard tuners are released, I should be able to drop it into the HTPC and beginning recording tv on it as well. This brings me to the worst-case scenario for heavy workload: recording 3 HD shows at one time while watching a 4th HD show (live or recorded) or recording 3 or 4 HD shows while watching a 1080p movie stored on the NAS (HD Audio should pass through to my receiver).

I don't really know what kind of processing power would be needed to handle that workload and I don't know if that is even a heavy workload to begin with.

I am guessing I would need something in the High-End range on page 85, but if something Mid-Range would be sufficiently worthy of handling that workload then that would be awesome. Obviously no one has experience with those tuners yet since they are not out yet, but if Mid-Range systems handle current dual tuners with ease, then I don't think adding an additional stream or two would pose a problem.
Yup, the mid-range system AMD/AMD (Athlon II X4 630 quad-core) should be able to handle these tasks easily.

bmcent1

10-03-09, 01:21 PM

I just looked up the Lascala LC17 case on NewEgg and found it. Why can't you get it from there?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163055

Thanks for the link!

Oddly, I couldn't find it because I was using their search for: Lascala LC17

If you just search for LC17 it does come up, but it doesn't have Lascala in the title, so I guess that explains it.

Makes my case decision easy. Thanks again!

cytho

10-03-09, 03:39 PM

HD Locals like NBC/ABC/CBS/Fox will continue to be available in the clear. It's the "Expanded Basic" channels in SD like ESPN/CNN/MTV that will probably be encrypted in the future. The reason that they're not now is that the cheap converter boxes that are allowing the cable companies to go digital for Expanded Basic channels can't do the same kind of encryption that is used for the rest of the digital cable channels. If they did, they would have to use CableCARD (Separable Security) and that's just too expensive for these cheapie boxes. So, they will use "privacy mode" which is a simpler digital scrambling system. The application of this method of digital scrambling was just approved by the FCC recently.

Personally, I find this method to be a kind of underhanded move by the cable companies to get people to use their full function digital cable boxes. The only people who would be accessing these clear QAM channels would be people who subscribe to Expanded Basic or higher anyway. They can prevent "Theft of Service" by Limited Basic subscribers the same way they always have - using a notch filter at the curb/pole where the cable splits off to go to the subscriber. As it is now during the transition time, even Limited Basic subs can see the Expanded Basic SD QAM channels because they have not moved the channels back into the notch filter band.
IMHO, they should not scramble/encrypt the channels, they should move them back into the notch filter band and allow the rest of us full subscribers continue to use whatever equipment we like to tune these Expanded Basic channels.

- Mike

Yeah the locals will always be available OTA, i just meant the expanded channels in hd you need a cable card for.

As far as it being under handed either you can keep everything like it was and get a limited number of channels and limited internet speed OR you can move along with the world and upgrade to get more and faster.

Which do you think people want?

And filters cannot block out digital signal its either all or none

txredneckbud

10-03-09, 11:23 PM

txredneckbud

10-03-09, 11:26 PM

THis is concerning the case. Was going to order the Thermaltake DH104 VH4001BNS ATX with the LCD touchscreen until I found out it wont fit in a rack! Thats crazy. Are there other options with a touchscreen that will fit in a standard rack? If not rack mountable, sitting on a rack mounted shelf is just fine.

Rack fit is a MUST.

Bodhaguru

10-04-09, 12:11 AM

renethx

10-04-09, 12:55 AM

I think I may have over done it today by going with a Premium set up. just got back from Fry's. Budget is not my concern at all, quality is. However, the more I read the more I understand that premium is really designed for gaming? I will do ZERO gaming.

My goal is high quality video, media storage, ripping dvds/music and eventually blu-rays.

I went with the AMD/AMD suggestions on page 85. I am not unboxing any items, mostly due to not having the chassis yet. HAve to order it.

My question is, based on my purposes, do I really need a premium set up? If it helps in any good way, I will keep everything I have bought so far, otherwise, I will exchange it and get the appropriate configuration. No need to overdo anything if not needed.

All will be rack mounted and will use either DAS or NAS for media storage. Will post additional question on that in another post.
Please read this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#ATXSys):

Low-end system: offers reasonably good video playback performance at a low cost.
Mid-range system: offers the best video playback performance without compromise.
High-end system: should be able to handle other HTPC-related tasks such as video re-encoding and games with reasonably good performance.
Premium system: is intended to be the best (but not too expensive) overall system available today.
"Overall" includes gaming. If you do zero gaming, then you can choose the components accordingly. Here are some suggestons:

- Basically the mid-range system is enough for the best video playback. HD 4670 lacks the capability of HD audio bitstreaming, however.
- If you do lots of CPU intensive tasks such as video re-encoding, then Phenom II X4 965 is the best choice for the AMD platform. Otherwise Athlon II X4 630 is good enough for video playback and light multi-tasking.
- HD 5850 is surely overkill, but not that bad because its power consumption at idle/video playback is remarkably low (only 27W at idle). Do you use a HDMI receiver? Then this is the only choice for HD audio bitstreaming right now. HD 5770/5750 is expected around October 23 and HD 5670/5650 next year. These are cheaper and good enough for pure HTPC tasks. But you have to wait for a while.
- DH 102 is shorter (6" high) and has a touch screen. But perhaps you have to remove one HDD to make HD 5850 fit in the case (these pictures (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/DH_101/5.html)). Another choice is Zalman HD160XT Plus or SilverStone CW03.

If the budget is not your concern at all, then you can keep the components you already bought, just buy a correct case.

bobby_t1

10-04-09, 01:01 AM

Can someone tell me what "HD Bitstreaming" is? Is this just outputting bit-perfect (untouched) audio out through the HDMI? (so saving running a separate digital audio cable?)

renethx

10-04-09, 01:07 AM

If anyone has/knows of this MB----GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard, can you please tell me where to find the northbridge fan please? TIA. I see the connector on the MB but i don't know what fan to plug in there.
There is no NB fan by default. I don't think you need a better cooling for NB. You can't attach a fan to the NB heatsink because its surface is warped.

renethx

10-04-09, 01:10 AM

Can someone tell me what "HD Bitstreaming" is? Is this just outputting bit-perfect (untouched) audio out through the HDMI? (so saving running a separate digital audio cable?)
Just sending untouched Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio to a receiver without decoding it into LPCM in PC. The only difference is where THD/DTS-HD MA is decoded into LPCM, in PC or in AVR, but many prefer the latter because of the messy Windows audio environment (constantly tries to modify LPCM).

txredneckbud

10-04-09, 11:43 AM

Please read this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972&page=85#ATXSys):

Low-end system: offers reasonably good video playback performance at a low cost.
Mid-range system: offers the best video playback performance without compromise.
High-end system: should be able to handle other HTPC-related tasks such as video re-encoding and games with reasonably good performance.
Premium system: is intended to be the best (but not too expensive) overall system available today.
"Overall" includes gaming. If you do zero gaming, then you can choose the components accordingly. Here are some suggestons:

- Basically the mid-range system is enough for the best video playback. HD 4670 lacks the capability of HD audio bitstreaming, however.
- If you do lots of CPU intensive tasks such as video re-encoding, then Phenom II X4 965 is the best choice for the AMD platform. Otherwise Athlon II X4 630 is good enough for video playback and light multi-tasking.
- HD 5850 is surely overkill, but not that bad because its power consumption at idle/video playback is remarkably low (only 27W at idle). Do you use a HDMI receiver? Then this is the only choice for HD audio bitstreaming right now. HD 5770/5750 is expected around October 23 and HD 5670/5650 next year. These are cheaper and good enough for pure HTPC tasks. But you have to wait for a while.
- DH 102 is shorter (6" high) and has a touch screen. But perhaps you have to remove one HDD to make HD 5850 fit in the case (these pictures (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/DH_101/5.html)). Another choice is Zalman HD160XT Plus or SilverStone CW03.

If the budget is not your concern at all, then you can keep the components you already bought, just buy a correct case.

Rene, your input to this forum is invaluable. CHECK YOUR PAYPAL! :)

I will post a new thread to review my options and goals. I do need some help and can send more paypal if it requires to much assistance.

I agree the video card is more than I need. I also can wait for the appropriate card to become available since it appears to be very shortly.

I read page 85 just about everyday trying to get a grasp on the best solution. You surely have put alot of work into it.

Thank you very much!

gpounders

10-04-09, 02:16 PM

I have Gigabyte 780G motherboard with onboard 3200 HD video. I'm trying to connnect this to my RPTV that can only do 1080i? Can this IGP support 1080i mode to the TV via RGB?

Here is the kicker, I'm trying to do this with Windows home server based on Server 2003 and I'm running the latest catalyst drivers for XP.

Everytime I run CCC it tells me the hardware is not capatible. I was hoping to dual purpose this machine. Would a discrete video do this?

clobber

10-05-09, 01:59 AM

sdolen

10-05-09, 12:40 PM

Upgrade question,

I have a 3-4 year old HTPC which is currently doing what I need, but before I activate Win 7, I'm trying to decide if I should do any hardware upgrades now since the CPU is just on the edge of obscurity.

Current System
Windows 7 Pro RTM
Intel D945GPM Motherboard
Pentium D 935 3.2 GHZ
4GB DDR800
Ati Radeon 3670
2 x Seagate 7200RPM 1TB drives
LG GGC-H20LK Combo Drive

I'm thinking either:
Intel BOXDG45ID
Intel Pentium Dual-Core E6500

Or

AMD Athlon II X4 620
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H

Should I save the $200 or upgrade now? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

renethx

10-05-09, 01:11 PM

Should I save the $200 or upgrade now? Any advice would be appreciated.
Do you use a HDMI receiver? What sound system are you using?

sdolen

10-05-09, 02:23 PM

Do you use a HDMI receiver? What sound system are you using?

SPDIF pass through to a 5.1. Don't need HDMI audio.

renethx

10-05-09, 02:41 PM

Should I save the $200 or upgrade now? Any advice would be appreciated.
There won't be revolutionary new products (CPU or chipset) in your intended price range in near future. (Intel Core i3 processor is coming in Q1 2010, featuring integrated GPU and HD audio bitstreaming, but that's not your concern.) So you can upgrade your system now if you want. Either system should be good. HD 3670? Do you mean HD 3650?

sdolen

10-05-09, 02:49 PM

renethx, thanks for the reply. Since it's current hardware config is doing what I need for the foreseeable future, I think I will leave well enough alone and just drive it into the ground. And yes, that was a 3650.

Thanks again!

darkranex

10-05-09, 02:57 PM

Yup, the mid-range system AMD/AMD (Athlon II X4 630 quad-core) should be able to handle these tasks easily.

Thanks for the help, renethx. I'm going with the micro atx mid range version as i want to keep the footprint small. The gigabyte motherboard has onboard video with an HDMI port. Your parts list includes a Radeon HD 4670. What do I gain from adding the dedicated video card as opposed to using the onboard graphics?

The motherboard has 1 PCIe1, 1 PCIe16, and 2 PCI slots. I'm assuming any cablecard tuner cards from Ceton or Hauppauge would be PCIe1. the 4670 card is PCIe16, and i plan on adding the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 card to pass HD Audio to my receiver. The Slim version is PCI. If you recommend to use the 4670 as opposed to the onboard HDMI port, I would prefer to use the passively cooled 4670 from HIS (hxxp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161288). However, using this motherboard configuration it would block the PCIe1 port, which is bad.

The only comparable motherboard to the gigabyte I found that would allow for those three cards is the ECS Black Series A785GM-M micro ATX board (hxxp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135241). It has 2 PCIe1 slots and only 1 PCI slot. This board would allow the passively cooled HIS 4670, the cablecard tuner (assuming PCIe1), and the Xonar Slim card to all fit on the board.

What do you think of the ECS board. Do you have any experience with it? Is this whole point moot if I can just utilize the onboard Radeon 4200?

Getting close to pulling the trigger on everything, just needing to sort out these last details. Thanks again for all your help.

renethx

10-05-09, 11:50 PM

Rene,

Just bought the GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM-US2H and Antec Fusion Remote Black microATX. I'm confused about the AC'97 and HDA front panel cables from the Fusion. The HDA does not seem to be compatible with the GA-MA785GN-US2H. Am I reading the pin outs (in the manual) correctly? What exactly do these cables do anyway? I think it is for the volume control knob?
The mb has a HD audio "front panel header" (it's also AC'97). The pinouts is standard and works with Antec Fusion. This is for front panel audio connectors. The volume knob is not connected to it.

renethx

10-06-09, 12:05 AM

Thanks for the help, renethx. I'm going with the micro atx mid range version as i want to keep the footprint small. The gigabyte motherboard has onboard video with an HDMI port. Your parts list includes a Radeon HD 4670. What do I gain from adding the dedicated video card as opposed to using the onboard graphics?

The motherboard has 1 PCIe1, 1 PCIe16, and 2 PCI slots. I'm assuming any cablecard tuner cards from Ceton or Hauppauge would be PCIe1. the 4670 card is PCIe16, and i plan on adding the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 card to pass HD Audio to my receiver. The Slim version is PCI. If you recommend to use the 4670 as opposed to the onboard HDMI port, I would prefer to use the passively cooled 4670 from HIS (hxxp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161288). However, using this motherboard configuration it would block the PCIe1 port, which is bad.

The only comparable motherboard to the gigabyte I found that would allow for those three cards is the ECS Black Series A785GM-M micro ATX board (hxxp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135241). It has 2 PCIe1 slots and only 1 PCI slot. This board would allow the passively cooled HIS 4670, the cablecard tuner (assuming PCIe1), and the Xonar Slim card to all fit on the board.

What do you think of the ECS board. Do you have any experience with it? Is this whole point moot if I can just utilize the onboard Radeon 4200?

Getting close to pulling the trigger on everything, just needing to sort out these last details. Thanks again for all your help.
HD 4670 is better than HD 4200 in a couple of points (in particular deinterlacing). Basically

- HD 4670 or higher supports up to VA (vector adaptive deinterlacing)
- HD 4650 or lower supports up to MA (motion adaptive deinterlacing)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=154461&stc=1&d=1254801868

HD 5750 ($149) is coming soon that supports HD audio bitstreaming (with PowerDVD; TMT soon?); then you don't need Xonar Slim.

The ECS board should be good. Foxconn Cinema Premium (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186180) has two PCIe x1 slots. Angled SATA connectors are not good for Antec Fusion case though (this picture (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12095425#post12095425); you have to insert all the SATA cables before you attach the mb to the case or use angled cables for the upper connectors).

jsntrmn

10-06-09, 04:39 AM

first off, let me say that i am an htpc newbie. complete greenhorn here folks!

i've attempted to read as much of this thread as possible, but i have to admit my head is starting to spin. i'm finding myself bogged down in technical details.

essentially, here's what i'd like to accomplish.

i want a small form factor system that i can hook to either an lcd hdtv or an lcd monitor. i'd like to be able to watch dvds, blu-ray, downloaded/ripped hd movies and streamed hd content such as hulu. i'd also like to be able to watch all the free ota sd/hd stuff. (i'm too cheap to pay for any digital tv service, be it cable or satellite.)

in addition to media capabilities, i'd like to be able to use this same system for general pc stuff such as web surfing and light office work.

i presently do not have a receiver of any sort. i also do not have any speakers worthy of a home theatre setup. i do have some halfway decent pc speakers, but i'm not sure if they would do for now. they are logitech z560's, 4 satellites and a sub.

budget is my biggest concern. i'll be spending most of my money on the hdtv or monitor, so i need to keep the cost of the system at a minimum.

so then, which of the system's outlined should i go for?

and will i be able to use an htpc system for double duty, both media and general pc usage?

do you think i'll be okay with just the htpc, the hdtv/monitor and those pc speakers, or should i suck it up and get a receiver and some real speakers?

final question, and this may not be the place to ask but i'm going to go ahead, is it common practice to use an lcd hdtv rather than a pc monitor with regard to everday pc tasks? of course i want the hdtv for all the media related stuff, but if i'm trying to surf the web on an hdtv, will i be destroying my eyes with fuzzy text and the like?

i really appreciate this thread, and major major props to renethx for compiling such an exhaustive list of information. if i can get these questions answered, i imagine i'm going to just go right for one of the recommended setups.

one last time, thanks!

renethx

10-06-09, 05:21 AM

first off, let me say that i am an htpc newbie. complete greenhorn here folks!

i've attempted to read as much of this thread as possible, but i have to admit my head is starting to spin. i'm finding myself bogged down in technical details.

essentially, here's what i'd like to accomplish.

i want a small form factor system that i can hook to either an lcd hdtv or an lcd monitor. i'd like to be able to watch dvds, blu-ray, downloaded/ripped hd movies and streamed hd content such as hulu. i'd also like to be able to watch all the free ota sd/hd stuff. (i'm too cheap to pay for any digital tv service, be it cable or satellite.)

in addition to media capabilities, i'd like to be able to use this same system for general pc stuff such as web surfing and light office work.

i presently do not have a receiver of any sort. i also do not have any speakers worthy of a home theatre setup. i do have some halfway decent pc speakers, but i'm not sure if they would do for now. they are logitech z560's, 4 satellites and a sub.

budget is my biggest concern. i'll be spending most of my money on the hdtv or monitor, so i need to keep the cost of the system at a minimum.

so then, which of the system's outlined should i go for?

and will i be able to use an htpc system for double duty, both media and general pc usage?

do you think i'll be okay with just the htpc, the hdtv/monitor and those pc speakers, or should i suck it up and get a receiver and some real speakers?

final question, and this may not be the place to ask but i'm going to go ahead, is it common practice to use an lcd hdtv rather than a pc monitor with regard to everday pc tasks? of course i want the hdtv for all the media related stuff, but if i'm trying to surf the web on an hdtv, will i be destroying my eyes with fuzzy text and the like?
Start with the microATX low-end AMD/AMD system without the discrete graphics card. You can choose any case you like.

You don't need a receiver or expensive speakers if you are satisfied with your current audio system.

Browsing web in a HDTV is no problem, you may need to adjust font size, of course.

darkranex

10-06-09, 08:56 AM

HD 4670 is better than HD 4200 in a couple of points (in particular deinterlacing). Basically

- HD 4670 or higher supports VA (vector adaptive deinterlacing)
- HD 4650 or lower supports MA (motion adaptive deinterlacing)

Ah, good. This is definitely worth knowing, especially with my heavy TV requirement.

HD 5750 ($149) is coming soon that supports HD audio bitstreaming (with PowerDVD; TMT soon?); then you don't need Xonar Slim.

Do you have a rough idea of when that card might be released? I know the new 58XX cards are just releasing so I would assume they would want those on the market for a couple months before releasing anything else, but I could be wrong.

I don't need the Xonar or 4670 right this moment, so if I could use the 5750 in place of those two cards that would definitely be great. Which would mean I wouldn't really need to worry about finding a mobo with 2 PCIe1. But now that I think about it, having two of those instead of 2 PCI slots would probably be better for potential future addons...except the 5750 would probably take up two slots leaving only one usable PCIe1 slot anyway. gah!