Renethx - have a couple of questions. Want to assemble an HTPC to be basically a DVR and a DVD "server" (all ripped to the HTPC - no HD/Blu-ray discs). DVR will mostly play captured OTA ATSC and hardware encoded MPEG-2 from DirecTV (looking at a Hauppauge 1600/1800). Looking for this box to be basically a central server for ease of distribution (high Wife Acceptance Factor), not necessarily perfect sound/picture quality - will be distributing the output via an existing Channel Plus modulator throughout the house.

Looking at your preferred low-end HTPC config. and would like to get by as inexpensively as possible. If I already have an ATX case that I'd like to use instead of a mATX, do you have any ATX motherboard recommendations (for AMD)? Also, if I purchase one of the new 3400/3600 ATI video cards, will that presumably tax my processor less, so I could get by with something less than the 5000+ X2 black edition that you recommend? Something like the 4000+ X2 (just to save some $$$$)?

Thanks for any help.

First: Great Thread
Second: Help
The site convinced me to build a HTPC. I really like the recommendations etc provided here. I bought the following:

• CPU: Core 2 Duo E8400 3.00GHz Socket 775, $183.
• CPU Cooler: TBD if needed
• Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS4 Intel P35 chipset ATX, $178.
• Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
• Graphics Card: ATI XFX GeForce 8800 GT 512MB DDR3 PV-T88P-YDF
• HDD: existing.
• PSU: IN case 500W.
• Case: Antec Sonata III 500 Case
• Thermal Paste: MX

My intent was to use the hard drive with the XP operating system from my old computer.

I put it all together last night. Read the instructions twice. Everything went together nicely but when I started the computer, the Gigabyte screen comes up then it goes to a screen saying something has changed, three options: start anyway, safe mode or a networking option. My guess is this has to do with using the old hard drive and setting on it. What next??

Thanks,

Steve

First: Great Thread
Second: Help
The site convinced me to build a HTPC. I really like the recommendations etc provided here. I bought the following:

• CPU: Core 2 Duo E8400 3.00GHz Socket 775, $183.
• CPU Cooler: TBD if needed
• Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS4 Intel P35 chipset ATX, $178.
• Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
• Graphics Card: ATI XFX GeForce 8800 GT 512MB DDR3 PV-T88P-YDF
• HDD: existing.
• PSU: IN case 500W.
• Case: Antec Sonata III 500 Case
• Thermal Paste: MX

My intent was to use the hard drive with the XP operating system from my old computer.

I put it all together last night. Read the instructions twice. Everything went together nicely but when I started the computer, the Gigabyte screen comes up then it goes to a screen saying something has changed, three options: start anyway, safe mode or a networking option. My guess is this has to do with using the old hard drive and setting on it. What next??

Thanks,

Steve


Do you have the XP CD? Ideally you start fresh when building a new machine, especially since you're changing a lot of hardware. But if you don't want to go that route, this is the order I'd take:

1) Start anyway - does it boot up? If so, just update all the hardware drivers and see what happens. If that doesn't work then

2) Safe mode - again, does it boot? If so, update the drivers (if it will let you) and then reboot into normal mode.

3) if neither of the above work, boot off of the XP CD, hit enter at the first screen, hit f8 to accept the license agreement, then when it (hopefully) finds your previous Windows installation, choose to repair it. This will reinstall the OS over top of the current installation, preserving all of your data. You'll have to reinstall all the Windows hotfixes / service packs (if not a SP2 CD) after this method.

4) If the above doesn't enable it to boot, backup whatever data you need off of the drive and perform a clean install - which really is what you should do anyway...

Renethx - have a couple of questions. Want to assemble an HTPC to be basically a DVR and a DVD "server" (all ripped to the HTPC - no HD/Blu-ray discs). DVR will mostly play captured OTA ATSC and hardware encoded MPEG-2 from DirecTV (looking at a Hauppauge 1600/1800). Looking for this box to be basically a central server for ease of distribution (high Wife Acceptance Factor), not necessarily perfect sound/picture quality - will be distributing the output via an existing Channel Plus modulator throughout the house.

Looking at your preferred low-end HTPC config. and would like to get by as inexpensively as possible. If I already have an ATX case that I'd like to use instead of a mATX, do you have any ATX motherboard recommendations (for AMD)? Also, if I purchase one of the new 3400/3600 ATI video cards, will that presumably tax my processor less, so I could get by with something less than the 5000+ X2 black edition that you recommend? Something like the 4000+ X2 (just to save some $$$$)?

Thanks for any help.
How many SATA ports do you need? The AMD platform is right now not so attractive because a midrange to low-end motherboard has typically only 4 SATA ports.

- Pentium Dual-Core E2180 2.0GHz, $74
- GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R (8 SATA ports), $127
- Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 3450 (make sure it comes with a breakup cable for composite video), $50

may be a better choice. The required CPU power is very low (near nothing for recording HD OTA and playing back MPEG-2 files is easy).

salmon slayer

If you change motherboard, usually you have to clean install OS. An exceptional case is that the new motherboard has the same chipset as the old one. In this case repair installation may be enough.

thanks for the input. I was afraid of this. I do not have the original disks. I will try to put the hard drive in the original computer and see if I can get a recovery disk made

Salmon Slayer, I actually went through a very similar situation a couple nights ago. I decided to use a hard drive from my old pc in a new build since it already had XP on it. It was originally a pre-built and I didn't have the install disk.

I am using the PS3R motherboard and went ahead and booting normally. Got a screen that said I had to register the installation again before I could log on. Of course the registration failed and I had to phone register. The ID was not recognized as being valid, I explained that I had made some major upgrades and that it was only running on one PC. They reset the registration, gave me a new code and I was up and running. Took quite a while to go through the process on the phone, but in the end everything was working fine.

Does anyone know if the SilverStone Lascala SST-LC20B-M can be programmed to be controlled via a Logitech 890 remote?

renethx, I've decided to use one of your configurations...

•CPU: Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz Socket 775
•CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90
•Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R Intel P35 chipset ATX
•Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit
•Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100237L Radeon HD 3650 512MB 128-bit GDDR3
•HDD: Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB HD501LJ 500GB SATA
•PSU: Antec NeoHE 430
•Case: SilverStone Lascala SST-LC20B-M
•Optical Drive: LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray Disc & HD DVD-ROM Drive
•Windows Vista Ultimate

This config will be used for BD/HD DVD playback. Will the power supply be enough?

Will the power supply be enough?
Yes, it's enough.

mATX board

Intel
G35
G33

NVidia
7159

ATI
any

or does it not matter at all?

Mostly will be used for video playback, some HD. I will probably shell out another 75-100$ for a discrete video so I can take some load off of the mid-range Core2 I will use. A recommendation for a micro board without graphics would be cool to (not to many of those around). I guess I am looking for the best support of Pure Video, or Avivo to make sure the CPU is not at 80% for hours at a time. I'm not completely sold to ATI or NVidia for graphics but I do like ATI audio decoding through HDMI. As long as the NVidia can put audio through the card with spdif pins i suppose that works.

Any recommendations? Thanks

crashdumy

None of them supports H.264 hardware decode, meaning high CPU usage. Among them G35 is the best, but overpriced (~$135) imo.

- GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L + Radeon HD 3450 (total ~$117)
- eVGA GeForce 7100 + GeForce 8500 GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301) (total ~$142)

is a better choice. You need to buy the ATI proprietary DVI-HDMI dongle for the first choice.

Yes, it's enough.

Is Crossfire relevant when it comes to BD/HD playback?

I'm now considering the ASUS P5K-E or Abit IP35 (cheaper). I did not realize the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R did not have an IEEE 1394 port. This could be useful correct?

Are your mobos listed in your preferred order?

Lastly, mATX vs. ATX, what is your thought? What advantages does one have over the other besides size?

Is Crossfire relevant when it comes to BD/HD playback?

I'm now considering the ASUS P5K-E. I did not realize the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R did not have an IEEE 1394 port. This could be useful correct?

Are your mobos listed in your preferred order?

Lastly, mATX vs. ATX, what is your thought? What advantages does one have over the other besides size?
CrossFire or SLI has noting to do with video playback performance. It's strictly for 3D performance.

IEEE 1394 may be useful depending on your usage. ASUS P5K-E (and P5K Deluxe) has the 2nd generation 8-phase power design and consumes about 30W more power than the other P35 motherboards. GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3P (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128083) or GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128087) is a better choice.

The main difference between ATX and mATX apart from size and the number of expansion slots is that mATX comes with integrated graphics which is right now pretty useless for HD movies. So you choose

- an ATX mb + discrete video card
- a mATX mb + discrete video card

or wait for a GeForce 8200 or AMD 780G chipset motherboard for which you don't need a discrete graphics.

i want to know if this is okay:

G33 or G35 motherboard
E8400 cpu
3450 video card.

i want to know if E8400 too powerful for HTPC or not.

i am going to watch hd-dvd or blu-ray movies from hard drive, watch hdtv.

i want to know if this is okay:

G33 or G35 motherboard
E8400 cpu
3450 video card.

i want to know if E8400 too powerful for HTPC or not.

i am going to watch hd-dvd or blu-ray movies from hard drive, watch hdtv.
Okay. But E8400 may be overkill, your CPU usage will be less than 20% when you watch BD, HD DVD or HDTV. If you want to save money, buy Pentium Dual-Core E2200 2.2GHz (the CPU usage < 40%).

what if i say that i also use this HTPC for download the movies, extract them and also playing them on this pc. will Dual Core E2200 be enough for it?

what if i say that i also use this HTPC for download the movies, extract them and also playing them on this pc. will Dual Core E2200 be enough for it?
I am not sure what kind movies you are talking about. Playing H.264 mkv files is no problem with E2200.

I am not sure what kind movies you are talking about. Playing H.264 mkv files is no problem with E2200.

Sorry i mean downloading, extracting and playing HD movies.

I'm building an HTPC and wondering which Vista version would be best?

Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Ultimate for System - OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate Single Pack DVD - OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate DVD - Retail

I'm building an HTPC and wondering which Vista version would be best?

Microsoft Windows Vista 32-Bit Ultimate for System - OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Ultimate Single Pack DVD - OEM
Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate DVD - Retail
Vista 32-Bit Ultimate for System - OEM (but do you need Ultimate?)

crashdumy

None of them supports H.264 hardware decode, meaning high CPU usage. Among them G35 is the best, but overpriced (~$135) imo.

- GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L + Radeon HD 3450 (total ~$117)
- eVGA GeForce 7100 + GeForce 8500 GT (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301) (total ~$142)

is a better choice. You need to buy the ATI proprietary DVI-HDMI dongle for the first choice.



thanks for the advice

Vista 32-Bit Ultimate for System - OEM (but do you need Ultimate?)

I thought I did for the Media Center but I see the 32-bit Home Premium will do?

I thought I did for the Media Center but I see the 32-bit Home Premium will do?
Home Premium is for HTPC. Ultimate includes Home Premium and Business.

i was wondering does it matter which motherboard i buy ?

for example like : nividia 7150 board or G33 motherboard for HTPc because i usually use it for HTPc? what about Dual memory channel or not? because 7150 doesnot have dual channel but G33 has dual channel?

I recommend waiting the 4 weeks until AMD 780G boards are available. Around the same time Phenom 9100e chips should be out too. Then make a decision.

I recommend waiting the 4 weeks until AMD 780G boards are available. Around the same time Phenom 9100e chips should be out too. Then make a decision.

Can you forward links to info on the 780G boards or Phenom 9100e chips?

i was wondering does it matter which motherboard i buy ?

for example like : nividia 7150 board or G33 motherboard for HTPc because i usually use it for HTPc? what about Dual memory channel or not? because 7150 does not have dual channel but G33 has dual channel?
There is no noticeable video playback performance difference between 7150 and G33 when you use a discrete graphics card.

Can you forward links to info on the 780G boards or Phenom 9100e chips?

Never mind. I got it. ;)

renethx,

Do you have any inside information on the new 780G boards? Do you think the performance between it and having a discrete graphic card solution will be significant? As you know, I’m close to making a decision on the configuration below but I’m contemplating waiting. What is your thought?

Near Ready to buy config:

•CPU: Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz Socket 775 $143.99
•CPU Cooler: ZEROtherm BTF90 $30.99 after $10.00 Mail-In Rebate ($40.99)
•Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4 Intel P35 chipset ATX $ 179.99
•Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit $49.99 after $25.00 Mail-In Rebate ($74.99)
•Graphics Card: SAPPHIRE 100237L Radeon HD 3650 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 $104.99
•HDD: Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB HD501LJ 500GB SATA $109.99
•PSU: Antec NeoHE 430 $69.99
•Case: SilverStone Lascala SST-LC10B-M $139.99 (not totally decided)
•Optical Drive: LG GGC-H20L Super Multi Blue Blu-ray Disc & HD DVD-ROM Drive $299.99
•Windows Vista 32-bit Home Premium $ 109.99
•Power DVD - $89
•Logitech EX110 Wireless KB + Mouse or 1 x Media Centre Keyboard/Mouse combo (not totally decided)

jerome8283

If you go with AMD 780G with integrated Radeon HD 3200, you can save some money ($200-$250):

- CPU: Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Black Edition, $100
- Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H, $80? (there will be several ATX mbs too.)
- Radeon HD 3200 IGP, $0
- mATX case such as Antec Fusion (Black) 430

Radeon HD 3200 will be just enough for the HTPC tasks. But you have to wait until March. Of course HD 3470 / HD 3650 is better in several respects (see bit-tech.net - First Look: ATI Radeon HD 3450, 3470 & 3650 (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/01/23/ati_radeon_hd_3450_3470_and_3670/1)). Your original component selection is very nice and you will be satisfied. It's up to you.

jerome8283

If you go with AMD 780G with integrated Radeon HD 3200, you can save some money ($200-$250):

- CPU: Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Black Edition, $100
- Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H, $80? (there will be several ATX mbs too.)
- Radeon HD 3200 IGP, $0
- mATX case such as Antec Fusion (Black) 430

Radeon HD 3200 will be just enough for the HTPC tasks. But you have to wait until March. Of course HD 3470 / HD 3650 is better in several respects (see bit-tech.net - First Look: ATI Radeon HD 3450, 3470 & 3650 (http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2008/01/23/ati_radeon_hd_3450_3470_and_3670/1)). Your original component selection is very nice and you will be satisfied. It's up to you.

Thanks as always for your quick (always informative) response! ;)

What do we know about Nvidia's upcoming 8200 IGP solution for AMD procs? Any good advance word?

The only latest news is BIOSTAR (and J&W) launched a 8200 mb:

GF8200 M2+ (http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/news/news.php?id=25)

Picture is here (http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=426409). (But it's not yet available, at least in US.)

The only latest news is BIOSTAR (and J&W) launched a 8200 mb:

GF8200 M2+ (http://www.biostar.com.tw/app/en-us/news/news.php?id=25)

Picture is here (http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?p=426409). (But it's not yet available, at least in US.)

I'm pretty excited for this mortherboard. However, I do not know if I feel good about the 6 channel audio.

I'm pretty excited for this mortherboard. However, I do not know if I feel good about the 6 channel audio.

May be a misquote - it says 8 channels in the text (just above the table that says 6 channels).

I have an ATI 2600 Pro card that I just installed. Now when I open Winows Media Center I get a black screen w/ audio and my mouse. I know this is a driver issue. If I uninstall the driver Media Center will open OK. As soon as I load the driver again my problem starts. Is there a driver or a patch for this problem? Is anyone else having a problem w/ the 2xxx series cards and Media Center?

If I can't get this working what NVidia cards (silent) would you recommend?

*canister*

Please explain more. Can you start Media Center normally? When does the black screen appear?

Media Center does not start normally, everthing else on my compter works fine. When I open it I can hear the audio and see my mouse. The menu is just a black screen though. The bottons (My Videos, My Music, ect.) are still there eventhough I can't see them. The only thing I can see is the Help screen when I hit F1, but in the help menu when a dialoge box appears in the bottom right corner its solid blue so I can't see that either. When I uninstall the ATI driver I can open Media Center and see the menu like normal (in low res). When I reinstall the drivers its back to the black screen. I've tried every driver from June until now and nothing works.

Now just to make sure that it wasn't a problem with Media Center I put an old NVidia card in and everything worked fine.

Perhaps there is no definitive fix for it unfortunately.

Maybe I'll just put it on the shelf until some driver fix comes out.

Could you suggest a good NVidia card? I do no gaming. Only really used for DVDs on HDD and recorded TV (SD & HD)

Looking for something around $100 or less
Silent cooling or very quite fan

Whats the best value right now?

Thanks for your help!

Maybe I'll just put it on the shelf until some driver fix comes out.

Could you suggest a good NVidia card? I do no gaming. Only really used for DVDs on HDD and recorded TV (SD & HD)

Looking for something around $100 or less
Silent cooling or very quite fan

Whats the best value right now?

Thanks for your help!

- XFS GeForce 8500 GT GT PV-T86J-UAHG, $60 AR
- ASUS ASUS EN8500GT SILENT MAGIC/HTP/512M, $64 AR

Thanks. I was thinking of a 8500 card but but didn't know if it was enough.

This card also caught my eye.

XFX PVT84JUSD4 GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 - $80AR

Not exactly silent but has a a pretty quite ZALMAN fan. Are there any real advantages of the 8600gt over a 8500gt as far as video playback goes?

I was also wondering do most HTPCs use ATI or Nvidia cards, what do most people perfer? I just got into HTPCs over the past few month and I'm trying to switch some parts out in a recent build I did to make it into a HTPC. So sorry for all the questions but I like to hear the opinion of people who have knowledge on the subject.

Some say 8600 GT is better for 1080i HDTV because deinterlacing is done in more powerful stream processors (I haven't seen difference). If you want to be sure, this is your choice.

NVIDIA uploaded the GeForce 8200 mGPU page (http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_8200mgpu.html).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=101203

renethx

how much gain will i see from running dual channel ram? I have already purchased some but if there is no real performance gain for htpc then it won't bind me up too bad not to run that way.

I only ask because the NVidia micro-atx boards don't support dual channel. But other than that I kind of like the sound of this one:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3517184&CatId=2541

how much gain will i see from running dual channel ram?
None at all as far as video playback is concerned.

None at all as far as video playback is concerned.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/10/17/parallel_processing/index.html

Yeah I think your right. Thanks again!

CD

do i need to have 1:1 ratio if i am building HTPC? i am getting E8400 and maybe getting this board: gigabyte G33 matx board or Asus P5k-VM. i am thinking to get Evga 71xx board but this is not manual for the bios?

Perhaps there is no definitive fix for it unfortunately.

Thanks for all the help. I finally found a solution. In the post about getting the same black screen in Vista after coming out of sleep mode someone mentioned upping the PCIe voltage, well that did it.

So, if anyone else is getting a black screen when opening Media Center w/ an ATI 2xxx series card (I know I'm not the only one) try turning up the voltage to your PCIe.

NVIDIA uploaded the GeForce 8200 mGPU page (http://www.nvidia.com/object/geforce_8200mgpu.html).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=101203

interesting.. so, is this going to be the "the motherboard" for dedicated HTPC use... well, for those not wanting a discrete graphics card anyway?

Where can I access the PureVideo control panel? I heard I can in Zoom Player, but I'll be damned if I can see it.

do i need to have 1:1 ratio if i am building HTPC?
Which ratio are you talking about?

interesting.. so, is this going to be the "the motherboard" for dedicated HTPC use... well, for those not wanting a discrete graphics card anyway?
Exactly.

Where can I access the PureVideo control panel? I heard I can in Zoom Player, but I'll be damned if I can see it.
Control Panel > Additional Optons > NVIDIA Control Panel. Or right-click on the Desktop and select NVIDIA Control Panel. I don't know about ZP.

i just bought ddr2-800 and video card (3450 ), i was wondering do i need to overclock th cpu for HTPC? or not?

i just bought ddr2-800 and video card (3450 ), i was wondering do i need to overclock th cpu for HTPC? or not?
If hardware acceleration works, you don't need oc.

Control Panel > Additional Optons > NVIDIA Control Panel. Or right-click on the Desktop and select NVIDIA Control Panel. I don't know about ZP.
Where can I access the PureVideo control panel? I heard I can in Zoom Player, but I'll be damned if I can see it.

Renethx, those instructions work for the Nvidia video card driver control panel, but not for Purevideo, at least in XP. To access the Purevideo controls, you need to start a DVD playing in ZP (or whatever player you're using), then go out of fullscreen mode. You'll see the Nvidia icon in the taskbar tray, right-click that, choose Decoder Properties.

Yup, I see now it's PureVideo Decoder.

Okay, my brain is starting to smoke here. I need some help. I'm having my friend build me a new pc and it's time to buy the mobo and I'm just way out of my depth.

I need the pc to be able to play hidef video (mainly tv for now), run emulated games (up to PS2 and Xbox level, for arguments sake), and multitask like crazy.

I would like to have everything through hdmi but last time I checked (a while back) it looked as though there wasn't really a good solution for hdmi. If there still isn't I'd like to run video through dvi-to-hdmi and audio through analog. I'm going to be using my hdtv.

On board vs separate video card is something I am really not sure about.

This is the mobo my friend is suggesting...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131013R

Should I go with that and a separate video card or is there a better solution?

I built a machine using a gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R/S2 motherboard and an 8500GT and it will play through the DVI-->HDMI cable perfectly and it looks amazing. The computer will not recognize the Sony W3000 LCD upon rebooting however and the only way I can seem to use the HDMI cable it to have another 'regular' monitor hooked up when booting up, then disconnect it and not reboot!

Any ideas? I'm using DVI to RGB right now.

On board vs separate video card is something I am really not sure about.
Roughly speaking,

- discrete graphics = integrated graphics (the upcoming GeForce 8200 and AMD 780G) in video playback performance
- discrete graphics > integrated graphics in 3D performance

So it depends on what 3D performance you want. Benchmark results of 780G is here (http://www.hkepc.com/?id=734&page=5&fs=idn#view).

I built a machine using a gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R/S2 motherboard and an 8500GT and it will play through the DVI-->HDMI cable perfectly and it looks amazing. The computer will not recognize the Sony W3000 LCD upon rebooting however and the only way I can seem to use the HDMI cable it to have another 'regular' monitor hooked up when booting up, then disconnect it and not reboot!

Any ideas? I'm using DVI to RGB right now.
Something is wrong with 8500GT/8600GTS. Is this the same problem as yours?

It looks like GeForce 8200 is HDMI 1.3a compliant and supports 8 channel LPCM audio over HDMI.

AnandTech Gary Key's blol - GeForce 8200 Update - HDMI 1.3a is here...sort of.... (February 7, 2008) (http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=381)

After posting some early comments about the 780G chipset, we had a flood of requests wondering about the HDMI output capabilities of the GeForce 8200. We will have further details later today but at this time the chipset is HDMI 1.3a "compliant". The mGPU does not support 12-bit or 16-bit deep color but meets the other video specific criteria. Also, 8-channel LPCM output is fully supported but decoding of TrueHD and DTS-HD MA is not available. We are still trying to understand NVIDIA's translation on the lack of TrueHD/DTS-HD MA support.

We do understand the chipset will not decode these audio standards but what is still not confirmed is if TrueHD/DTS-HD MA streams can be passed to PowerDVD 7 Ultra (or other supporting software applications), decoded, and then passed on as multichannel LPCM or out to a supporting A/V receiver to be decoded. We hope to have a final answer later this morning. In the meantime, we have to continue to express our concerns about the lack of multichannel LPCM output over HDMI in the AMD 780G product. Intel has already introduced this feature in the G35 chipset and NVIDIA will be introducing it later this month or in early March.

The specifications and features of the 780G and GeForce 8200 are very similar and most users will probably be satisfied with either solution. However, when it comes HTPC duty, generally the more advanced features the better, and in this case having multichannel LPCM output is an important distinction. We will have to wait to compare the video quality of AMD's UVD technology to the revamped NVIDIA PureVideo HD engine along with Hybrid CrossFire versus Hybrid SLI, but right now it appears NVIDIA is a couple of steps ahead in the audio area.
As I already mentioned in a previous post, GeForce 8200 also supports full hardware acceleration for all three codecs, MPEG-2, VC-1, H.264.

Thank you for this link. I will replicate this sequencing tomorrow and respond in the proper post.
Edit: Actually I don't use a receiver...I'm just using PC surround speakers from the office until I get a proper audio setup, so I don't think its a problem caused by trying to "handshake" with the receiver.

Thanks also for this guide which really inspired me to learn about HTPCs and computers in general. I am much happier and productive because of the machines built after I found this thread, so thanks again!

Thank you for this link. I will replicate this sequencing tomorrow and respond in the proper post.
Edit: Actually I don't use a receiver...I'm just using PC surround speakers from the office until I get a proper audio setup, so I don't think its a problem caused by trying to "handshake" with the receiver.
I have seen the boot issue frequently in other threads. For example, this post. A quick fix is mentioned in a later post in that thread.

It looks like GeForce 8200 is HDMI 1.3a compliant and supports 8 channel LPCM audio over HDMI.


We do understand the chipset will not decode these audio standards but what is still not confirmed is if TrueHD/DTS-HD MA streams can be passed to PowerDVD 7 Ultra (or other supporting software applications), decoded, and then passed on as multichannel LPCM or out to a supporting A/V receiver to be decoded. We hope to have a final answer later this morning. In the meantime, we have to continue to express our concerns about the lack of multichannel LPCM output over HDMI in the AMD 780G product. Intel has already introduced this feature in the G35 chipset and NVIDIA will be introducing it later this month or in early March.


Technically Intel has supported this back to the G965 with an ADD2 card, but at any rate it's good to see Nvidia join the party! It will be a good year for audio, I think.

Today I'm running a E4300 CPU with 2GB of ram and it runs 1080p mkv files averaging 70% load (files locally stored). It works but not great. Some times the movies studders so I've been looking to buy a new cpu/mobo combo.

Either I get the Quad Q6600 together with an Asus P5E-V HDMI mobo, or I wait until I can find someone who actually have the E8400 in stock. (I live in Sweden and it's not scheduled for delivery until March 17th)...

Which one would you guys use? I'm going to New York over the weekend in 2 weeks - anyone know any good store who carries the E8400 so I can pick it up myself?

FYI: Best Buy has a Western Digital 500 GB SATA drive on clearance for $86 or $88 at some stores. This drive is being clearanced to make room for a "green" drive with lower power consumption.

SKU: 7821967
Model: WD5000KSRTL

Great inexpensive disk for media storage or RAID.

Roughly speaking,

- discrete graphics = integrated graphics (the upcoming GeForce 8200 and AMD 780G) in video playback performance
- discrete graphics > integrated graphics in 3D performance

So it depends on what 3D performance you want. Benchmark results of 780G is here (http://www.hkepc.com/?id=734&page=5&fs=idn#view).

What about the mobo I posted? Will that do the job?

What about the mobo I posted? Will that do the job?

The motherboard you posted does not have integrated video. Therefore if you pair it with a good graphics card, yes. But it all depends on the graphics card.

Great great post on building HTPC....

I was going to start building a HTPC but now that I know that if I have a video card that will do all of the video I am wondering if I can get away with just updating my video card.

I have a Dell Dimension 8250 2.53 P4 with 1.5Gig Rambus Ram
The AGP is 4x


Can I just upgrade my video card to a HD2600 XT 512MB AGP Video Card like this one http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0263676

Will the fact that this card is 8x/4x and my computer only has a 4x bus prohibit this card from working with my system?

I also know that the psu is only 250w.Knowing that I will not want to underpower the card I will want to replace/upgrade the psu.Am I better off getting a replacement psu for the dell 8250 OR should I get a modular psa so that in the future when I do goto replace/upgrade computers I can just use that for the computer I build?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Michael

Today I'm running a E4300 CPU with 2GB of ram and it runs 1080p mkv files averaging 70% load (files locally stored). It works but not great. Some times the movies studders so I've been looking to buy a new cpu/mobo combo.

Either I get the Quad Q6600 together with an Asus P5E-V HDMI mobo, or I wait until I can find someone who actually have the E8400 in stock. (I live in Sweden and it's not scheduled for delivery until March 17th)...

Which one would you guys use? I'm going to New York over the weekend in 2 weeks - anyone know any good store who carries the E8400 so I can pick it up myself?

70% CPU usage of E4300 1.8GHz when running 1080p mkv is pretty normal. Stuttering without CPU hitting 100% usually means bad software configuration (filters and their setting). Which mb, graphics, player (and filters) do you use? Perhaps you need to tweak your player and/or overclock CPU before jumping on Q6600 or E8400.

The price of E8400 (1000 qty) is $183, the same as E6750. However,

Intel introduced the E8000 desktop CPU series, which feature enhanced performance and power efficiency, on January 20. Despite that the launch drew attention, Intel's strategically planned shipments have led to a shortage, the sources said. Driven by the attempt to lessen impact to sales of E6000 CPUs before inventory is completely sold, Intel is cautiously monitoring shipments of the 45nm-based CPUs, they explained.

Taiwan market: Intel E8000 CPU family shortage spurs pricing up over 20% (http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20080130PD224.html)
US market is in the same situation as Taiwan market. The retail price of E8400 is > $220 and it's hard to find it.

What about the mobo I posted? Will that do the job?
Yes, it will. But it's two-year old model. Soon nForce 750a/780a SLI will be released (March) and I would wait. Or if you have no preference for AMD, you may choose Core 2 Duo or Quad (much better than AMD processors) and a P35 motherboard.

Great great post on building HTPC....

I was going to start building a HTPC but now that I know that if I have a video card that will do all of the video I am wondering if I can get away with just updating my video card.

I have a Dell Dimension 8250 2.53 P4 with 1.5Gig Rambus Ram
The AGP is 4x


Can I just upgrade my video card to a HD2600 XT 512MB AGP Video Card like this one http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0263676

Will the fact that this card is 8x/4x and my computer only has a 4x bus prohibit this card from working with my system?

I also know that the psu is only 250w.Knowing that I will not want to underpower the card I will want to replace/upgrade the psu.Am I better off getting a replacement psu for the dell 8250 OR should I get a modular psa so that in the future when I do goto replace/upgrade computers I can just use that for the computer I build?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Michael

Your system is 6 year old. It's time to buy a new system. The components you can reuse are hard drive, mouse and keyboard. Look at MicroATX System - Low-End I. The motherboard will be soon replaced by a GeForce 8200 or AMD 780G chipset motherboard, powerful enough for HD contents. The total cost will remain the same.

If you hate to build your own system, buy HP Slimline s3300t series.

Your system is 6 year old. It's time to buy a new system. The components you can reuse are hard drive, mouse and keyboard. Look at MicroATX System - Low-End I. The motherboard will be soon replaced by a GeForce 8200 or AMD 780G chipset motherboard, powerful enough for HD contents. The total cost will remain the same.

If you hate to build your own system, buy HP Slimline s3300t series.

Thank you for the advice. Makes sense once I looked at how much a psu and vid card would be to update an outdated system.I will let you know how things turned out with the Low end I.

Michael

what E4300 won't run at 3 ghz ?????

:cool:

what E4300 won't run at 3 ghz ?????

:cool:
It should run, but the motherboard could be a bottleneck. A pre-build system may not allow oc at all.

Yes, it will. But it's two-year old model. Soon nForce 750a/780a SLI will be released (March) and I would wait. Or if you have no preference for AMD, you may choose Core 2 Duo or Quad (much better than AMD processors) and a P35 motherboard.


Just so I can get a complete picture. If I do decide to stick with AMD what would be the equivalent of the p35?

And does anyone know anything about this video card?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127302

It looks like a good solution. I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything. Again, I'm looking for hd video playback and some emulated games as far as video goes.

Just so I can get a complete picture. If I do decide to stick with AMD what would be the equivalent of the p35?
Besides nForce 750a SLI, AMD offers AMD 790X (CrossFire x16), AMD 790X (CrossFire x8), AMD 770 (no CrossFire). Among them 790X is close to the P35 position in the Intel platform. For example,

- GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-DS4 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128075), $150
- GIGABYTE GA-MA770-DS3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128081), $110

are a good choice.

As for that video card, users complain about loud fan noise and speed can't be slowed down. GeForce 8600 GTS is soon discontiued and replaced by GeForce 9600 GT ($169-$189; to be released on February 28 or 19, not sure) which is far much better in gaming (close to 8800 GT). Another good card is ATI Radeon HD 3850, $170.

I've allready made the choice for new rig, and it will be the new Gigabyte micro ATX 780g+sb700+alc889 board.

I've read loads of reviews of single core amd athlon 3500's, 4000+'s decoding 1080p bluray at high bitrates with the 780g and all of them seem to get really minimum CPU load during their tests.

What CPU should I chose?? My demands are completely passive CPU-cooling with 2 x Noctua's running at low (800 rpm) as only cooling in my fusion chassis.

Then BE-2300@2.1 ghz works (according to a friend) with Scythe Mini Ninja (a cooler that was made in close coop between Scythe and Antec especially for the NSK24x0 and the Fusion. The fan on the scythe will not be used) 45 degrees celsius at full load for 6 hours was the result my friend got)

The E4300@3ghz (wow!) seem to work with the Silverstone NT01 and 2 x Noctuas running low, a little higher temp than the above config, 50+ degrees at full load for a few hours I've read in other forum..)

The Gigabyte 780g board that comes out soon is AM2+ plattform.

The tuffest job for my HTPC will be playback of bluray/HDVD at 1080p/24 with full hd audio.

What CPU (AM2/AM2+) plattform would be the best value for money??
(Remember - passive cooling is a must for me!)

First I was all set for a 45w BE-2x00 and overclock it as far as the passive cooling handles. Now I'm not sure all of a sudden..

Gimme a hint..

Love this forum. It rules. ;)

Mascot

Basically any Athlon 64 X2 processor can be used with Scythe Ninja Mini (passive cooling) and Antec NSK2480. Read this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=989288&highlight=ninja+mini) (6000+ is the hottest 64 X2 processor).

Playing back BD / HD DVD is an easier job. The toughest one is playing back 1080p mkv files. But 2.5GHz should be enough (with proper codecs). I would choose 5600+ 2.6GHz Black Edition because it is cheap ($100) and easy to overclock if necessary. BE-2400 2.3GHz is another good choice.

amd or intel

bang for buck ?

GeForce 8600 GTS is soon discontiued and replaced by GeForce 9600 GT ($169-$189; to be released on February 28 or 19, not sure) which is far much better in gaming (close to 8800 GT). Another good card is ATI Radeon HD 3850, $170.

I guess that's one reason we are starting to see "special" deals on some of the 8600 series video cards. Think I'll wait for the GeForce 9600 or one of the new ATI cards.

Ben

Very nice guide renethx! Although I am very new to all this. Would appreciate if you found time to answer my following 'layman's' questions.

1. Is BD/HDDVD playback possible when using Windows XP? Or is Vista important?
2. Could you list typical components (link would also do) for constructing a high-end HTPC where gaming performance is not important. I mean video and audio quality should be paramount, at the same time keeping the system quiet and trendy. Most important recommendations I look forward to are: Motherboard, GPU, PSU and memory. Other tips that you might deem important are also welcome :)

Thanks in advance for your patience :)

amd or intel
ATX: go with Intel
mATX: AMD (GeForce 8200 or AMD 780G)

Very nice guide renethx! Although I am very new to all this. Would appreciate if you found time to answer my following 'layman's' questions.

1. Is BD/HDDVD playback possible when using Windows XP? Or is Vista important?
2. Could you list typical components (link would also do) for constructing a high-end HTPC where gaming performance is not important. I mean video and audio quality should be paramount, at the same time keeping the system quiet and trendy. Most important recommendations I look forward to are: Motherboard, GPU, PSU and memory. Other tips that you might deem important are also welcome :)

Thanks in advance for your patience :)

For question #2 I highly suggest you read the first page of this thread. I believe renethx has all your answers there.

1. Is BD/HDDVD playback possible when using Windows XP? Or is Vista important?
2. Could you list typical components (link would also do) for constructing a high-end HTPC where gaming performance is not important. I mean video and audio quality should be paramount, at the same time keeping the system quiet and trendy. Most important recommendations I look forward to are: Motherboard, GPU, PSU and memory. Other tips that you might deem important are also welcome :)
1. Either OS is fine. But NVIDIA and Intel tend to develop Vista drivers first.

2. If you like mATX,

- AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Black Edition 2.6GHz
- Scythe Ninja Mini
- GeForce 8200 mGPU motherboard (released soon)
- DDR2-800 1GB x 2
- Antec Fusion 430 (PSU included)

(Maybe too cheap?) For ATX, please see ATX System - High-end.

1. Either OS is fine. But NVIDIA and Intel tend to develop Vista drivers first.

2. If you like mATX,

- AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Black Edition 2.6GHz
- Scythe Ninja Mini
- GeForce 8200 mGPU motherboard (released soon)
- DDR2-800 1GB x 2
- Antec Fusion 430 (PSU included)

(Maybe too cheap?) For ATX, please see ATX System - High-end.

Hi renethx. Are you recommending MCP78 over RS780 for specific reasons?

Hi renethx. Are you recommending MCP78 over RS780 for specific reasons?
Yes. Please read GeForce 8200 - 8 Channel LPCM Output Fully Supported!!.

If your audio is going to be limited to 5.1 over optical, and video directly to 1080p PJ via HDMI, is MCP78 or RS780 preferable?

If your audio is going to be limited to 5.1 over optical, and video directly to 1080p PJ via HDMI, is MCP78 or RS780 preferable?
Then either one should be OK.

What is the downside of the nVidia board not doing TrueHD/DTS-HDMA bitstreaming?

What is the downside of the nVidia board not doing TrueHD/DTS-HDMA bitstreaming?
Almost none. The information included in LPCM and that in TrueHD/DTS-HDMA are identical, the only difference is if it is compressed or not.

So all I would be losing out is having the PC do the conversion to LPCM instead of the AVS doing it, right?

Is there any software which does this already, such as PDVD?

So all I would be losing out is having the PC do the conversion to LPCM instead of the AVS doing it, right?

Is there any software which does this already, such as PDVD?
Yeah, the application player must decode TrueHD/DTS-HDMA to LPCM instead of the A/V receiver. PowerDVD can decode it (afaik). But there is still downsampling problem.

Yeah, the application player must decode TrueHD/DTS-HDMA to LPCM instead of the A/V receiver. PowerDVD can decode it (afaik). But there is still downsampling problem.

Good enough. The downsampling can be fixed in a future release, so I am unconcerned about that.

I am getting close to building my new system, and the new nVidia board seems like a perfect match...at least the best possible match out there at this time.

Yes. Please read GeForce 8200 - 8 Channel LPCM Output Fully Supported!!.

Thanks. After all this waiting for AMD to get a RSxxx right i dont ever buy one and move to nVidia. Shame on you AMD/ATi

Are there any initial looks at HD quality (HQV) on the MCP78 chipset?
Are there other shortcomings to that will have a noticeable impact?

1. Either OS is fine. But NVIDIA and Intel tend to develop Vista drivers first.

2. If you like mATX,

- AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Black Edition 2.6GHz
- Scythe Ninja Mini
- GeForce 8200 mGPU motherboard (released soon)
- DDR2-800 1GB x 2
- Antec Fusion 430 (PSU included)

(Maybe too cheap?) For ATX, please see ATX System - High-end.

Thank you very much renethx!

Well all of my parts have arrived :)
The only thing I am holding out for is the new HD PVR.
I just had a few quick questions.
1-For memory I bought 2- TWIN2X2048-6400C4 4-4-4-12,as I see this is not in any or your lists,will this be a problem? I do not plan to overclock much if at all (never tried before)
2-I bought the Abit IP-35PRO so I could record via IEEE1394 from DCT6412 III.While reading that thread it only mentions using XP.Since I purchased Vista Premium will I have to run dual boot in order to record?
3-Any other recomendations for keyboard/mouse combo? I would love to buy the Logitech Edge but my CC is already hurting.lol

Thanks for your help and I will post pics once I get started

BTW all parts= E8400,Abit IP35PRO,EVGA 8600GTS,Antec 500 PSU,b-enspirer,4-750GB WD,Zerotherm BTF-90,Silverstone LC17,Lite On DVDRW,Vista Premium,2-TWIN2X2048-6400C4

liquiddvds

1. Memory should be fine.
2. I am not sure, but Vista should work.
3. I listed a couple of them in the Guide. Yeah, it's not easy to find a good one.

Thanks. After all this waiting for AMD to get a RSxxx right i dont ever buy one and move to nVidia. Shame on you AMD/ATi

Are there any initial looks at HD quality (HQV) on the MCP78 chipset?
Are there other shortcomings to that will have a noticeable impact?
I haven't seen HD HQV yet. There is still few review on video playback performance.

I have everything but a motherboard now. I was using an EVGA 7150 motherboard but after finding out that it really isn't HDCP compliant (regardless of what their website says), it can't handle memory at 800mhz (or at least not mine and several others), and that the digital coax is really just an input, I decided that the board doesn't do any of the things I need it to do.

So what is the best choice for an intel motherboard with an integrated gpu that's good enough when coupled with an E8400 for blu-ray and hd-dvd?

Nevermind, as I am looking at things I think I'll keep this until the 8200 series comes out and just move the Intel chip into the new desktop I was planning on building for myself.

So it seems that right now the only way to get 7.1 channel LPCM over HDMI is from a motherboard with the Intel IGP, or with the upcoming GeForce 8200? That seems to be what renethx's guide and the more recent posts indicate.

Assuming that the above is correct, does anybody know of any future graphics card that will have this capability? Unfortunately, I'm not building a system from scratch, so I need an add-on card.

To be honest, I'm surprised that manufacturers are even bothering to make cards with HD/Bluray video support but without hi-def audio capabilities. Seems rather useless to me (although I guess that is a rather audio-centric viewpoint).

Sorry if I'm missing something, this thread is pretty long. :)


edit: (thanks renethx for the answer below)

evanname

There is no discrete video card that supports 8 channel LPCM over HDMI in near future.

I am sorry but I just dont realize the importance of having 8 channel over Hdmi, once that problem is solved, what are the advantages of that? Its just having video/audio in the same cable?

What would be the "perfect" audio connections TV/HTPC/2.1 Surrond system(not a big audio fan and also living in an apartment :( ) assuming that I will have hdmi and spdif connections

Thanks

I am sorry but I just dont realize the importance of having 8 channel over Hdmi, once that problem is solved, what are the advantages of that? Its just having video/audio in the same cable?

What would be the "perfect" audio connections TV/HTPC/2.1 Surrond system(not a big audio fan and also living in an apartment :( ) assuming that I will have hdmi and spdif connections
The point is 24-bit (over 48kHz) vs. 16-bit (48kHz; S/PDIF-level). It depends on each user if 24-bit audio is important or not.

Perhaps S/PDIF or analog audio (from good onboard audio codec or a low-end sound card) is enough for many users not particularly interested in audio.

Hey
I'm trying to build a HTPC but I have few a question

CPU: Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz Socket 775, $142.
CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI, $35.
Motherboard: ASUS P5K-VM Intel G33 chipset microATX, $120.
Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $50 (after rebate at Newegg.com).
Graphics Card: PNY Verto 8600 GT 256MB PCIe VCG8600GXPB, $114. An alternative is ATI Radeon HD 3650 (any brand), $99.
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB HD501LJ 500GB SATA, $106.
PSU: Antec EarthWatts EA 430 (included in the case), $0.
Case: Antec Fusion Black 430, $150.
Total Cost: $717

Is this a good build? *taken off your guild*
Some people told me to remove the Ninja cooler and replace it with some else
and others told me that to remove the video card and the motherboard with some else =/

I don't know anything about HTPC so I need your help!

And if I build the above system, How do I hook up with my 5.1 Samsumg home theater speaker?
and the above system uses S-video > S-video
or-------------------------DVI > S-video
or there's something else???

THANKS!!!!!!!!!

1. Either OS is fine. But NVIDIA and Intel tend to develop Vista drivers first.

2. If you like mATX,

- AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Black Edition 2.6GHz
- Scythe Ninja Mini
- GeForce 8200 mGPU motherboard (released soon)
- DDR2-800 1GB x 2
- Antec Fusion 430 (PSU included)

(Maybe too cheap?) For ATX, please see ATX System - High-end.

I scanned this thread but exactly when will an mATX Intel based GeForce 8200 mobo be available and by who initially ?

Oh yes, HDMI is a must.

Man there is a lot to take in here...I need to build a new mATX HTPC and want noise to be the primary issue. Id like to use the slowest/coolest CPU possible. That being the case which of these two chipsets would garner the best h.264 hardware decoding performance (I'm planning on using Hauppauge's new HD-PVR)?

I'm using a logitech z5500 for audio so no need for me to have hdmi audio (I use spdif). The 5500 does decode DTS though, if I'm not using hdmi audio is there a difference audio-wise between the RS780 and the MCP78S?

Lots of information here, I wish I'd had all this in one place when I built my first HTPC nearly four years ago! Of course, now that it is four years later, the technology has changed totally... I don't think A64 was even common at the time, and definitely not dual-core, so I really feel out of the loop.

I've been looking at picking a case for my next HTPC build, and was planning on going mATX. Last time around I used the Antec Overture ATX case. It appears that its little brothers, the NSK 2480 and the Fusion are the current front-runners in the mATX realm.

Where is everyone quoting these prices for these cases from? (~$75 for the 2480, ~$135 for the fusion). Newegg has them both listed for quite a bit more, and googling the product numbers doesn't find much better prices. I will likely end up getting one of these boxes, so I just wanted to know if those prices still stand.

Frys runs specials on the Antec cases frequently with a rebate.

Hey
I'm trying to build a HTPC but I have few a question

CPU: Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz Socket 775, $142.
CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI, $35.
Motherboard: ASUS P5K-VM Intel G33 chipset microATX, $120.
Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $50 (after rebate at Newegg.com).
Graphics Card: PNY Verto 8600 GT 256MB PCIe VCG8600GXPB, $114. An alternative is ATI Radeon HD 3650 (any brand), $99.
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB HD501LJ 500GB SATA, $106.
PSU: Antec EarthWatts EA 430 (included in the case), $0.
Case: Antec Fusion Black 430, $150.
Total Cost: $717

Is this a good build? *taken off your guild*
Some people told me to remove the Ninja cooler and replace it with some else
and others told me that to remove the video card and the motherboard with some else =/

I don't know anything about HTPC so I need your help!

And if I build the above system, How do I hook up with my 5.1 Samsumg home theater speaker?
and the above system uses S-video > S-video
or-------------------------DVI > S-video
or there's something else???

THANKS!!!!!!!!!

Bump this

Hey
I'm trying to build a HTPC but I have few a question

CPU: Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz Socket 775, $142.
CPU Cooler: Scythe NINJA MINI, $35.
Motherboard: ASUS P5K-VM Intel G33 chipset microATX, $120.
Memory: Crucial Ballistix BL2KIT12864AA804 DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $50 (after rebate at Newegg.com).
Graphics Card: PNY Verto 8600 GT 256MB PCIe VCG8600GXPB, $114. An alternative is ATI Radeon HD 3650 (any brand), $99.
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB HD501LJ 500GB SATA, $106.
PSU: Antec EarthWatts EA 430 (included in the case), $0.
Case: Antec Fusion Black 430, $150.
Total Cost: $717

Is this a good build? *taken off your guild*
Some people told me to remove the Ninja cooler and replace it with some else
and others told me that to remove the video card and the motherboard with some else =/

I don't know anything about HTPC so I need your help!

And if I build the above system, How do I hook up with my 5.1 Samsumg home theater speaker?
and the above system uses S-video > S-video
or-------------------------DVI > S-video
or there's something else???
There are many choices and my recommendation is just an example. Tell me which cooler, mb, and video card you are thinking of. I can give you an advice on them.

I scanned this thread but exactly when will an mATX Intel based GeForce 8200 mobo be available and by who initially ?
Exact release date is unknown yet. Expected in February to March (February 21st?).

Man there is a lot to take in here...I need to build a new mATX HTPC and want noise to be the primary issue. Id like to use the slowest/coolest CPU possible. That being the case which of these two chipsets would garner the best h.264 hardware decoding performance (I'm planning on using Hauppauge's new HD-PVR)?

I'm using a logitech z5500 for audio so no need for me to have hdmi audio (I use spdif). The 5500 does decode DTS though, if I'm not using hdmi audio is there a difference audio-wise between the RS780 and the MCP78S?
If you use S/PDIF, either chipset will be fine.

Where is everyone quoting these prices for these cases from? (~$75 for the 2480, ~$135 for the fusion).
The lowest price changes everyday. In general PROVANTAGE.COM offers a good deal.

- NSK2480 (http://www.provantage.com/antec-nsk2480~7ANTG04N.htm), $82
- Antec Fusion (http://www.provantage.com/scripts/search.dll?QUERY=antec+fusion&Submit.x=0&Submit.y=0), $140

Regarding the sound issues with the 780g (RS780) chipset:

I'm planning on connecting a 7 channel power amp straight to my HTPC through the analogue outputs and use the system volume as main volume.

This is my first HTPC rig so I have a couple of questions:

1. How do u set up a 7.1 channel sound system on a HTPC? Are there controls for different speakers volume and delay in the software?

2. Does the HDMI hd audio problem have any effect at all on the analogue outputs capability in delivering the new sound formats??

Then. What CPU is actually needed here (with the 780g, hd3200 onboard graphics) for full hd support. (I know I asked before but just need the final info.)

I'm looking at a shortlist of AMD dualcores. BE-2x00, 4x00+ series or 5x00+??
(Passive cooling in the Fusion with Silverstone NT01 or Mini Ninja is a must! Preferably with 2 120 mm Noctua's running at low 800 rpm in the side!)

There are many choices and my recommendation is just an example. Tell me which cooler, mb, and video card you are thinking of. I can give you an advice on them.

If I build the system above would the picture be good?
picture/movie

Built my first HTPC this weekend using the "Mid-Range" option with a few tweaks: more HD space, LG Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive, and E8400 processor.

All seems to be working well for now, although I had to replace the battery on the motherboard in order to retain my BIOS settings (original was DOA apparently).

Picture under VMC on my Sony Grand Wega is a perfect fit without tweaking! I think I may need to do some tuning and such over the next couple of weeks, but OOTB very nice.

Note that the CPU fan that comes with the Scythe Ninja is only a 3-pin model, so it doesn't take advantage of the variable speed features of the MB. Fan is therefore a bit loud.

I'm sure I will have more issues and updates in the near future. I am going to post a separate question on some HDHomerun issues on another thread....

Thanks renethx!

sheesh,
i am lost.

i have read alot of this thread and several others.
i have had a HTPC for 3-4 yrs now.
getting ready to rebuild it (for the 2nd time)and i finally broke down and bought an HD tv (samsung 4665)so naturally i want everything to be HD.

i know i need another tuner card.

am i correct in understanding this

my HD STB has HD channels in the 900's, where the standard 2-99 are not HD? (insight cable) most of these are duplicates of whats in the 2-99 range

my present card will not see past 250, how do i know the next one i buy will see past 250 channels?

2)no tv tunner is capable of recording HDTV from cable?

i am using MCE but am open to other ideas. i prefer everything (Audio/video etc) all in one place.
i never watch live TV, i always record for veiwing later or i would just run it from my STB to the TV.

thanks
Scott

1)my present card will not see past 250, how do i know the next one i buy will see past 250 channels?

2)no tv tunner is capable of recording HDTV from cable?
Any digital QAM/ATSC tuner card will "see" all digital channels that broadcast. QAM is Cable, and ATSC is OTA (antenna). For cable, the only channels that can be tuned will be unencrypted digital channels (and analog channels, if your tuner does both). It will not be able to tune encrypted channels. Basically, if your TV already has a QAM tuner, it will be able to see the exact same channels.

I currently have the Fusion 5 HDTV, which is both QAM/ATSC. I typically use cable with that tuner, and am able to record in HD ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS, and also a few digital non-HD channels (MyTV, CW, some public access, etc). The tuner sees many many more channels, but they are encrypted and the tuner's software automatically ignores them.

I also have a Haupauge PVR250, which records only analog.

Regarding the sound issues with the 780g (RS780) chipset:

I'm planning on connecting a 7 channel power amp straight to my HTPC through the analogue outputs and use the system volume as main volume.

This is my first HTPC rig so I have a couple of questions:

1. How do u set up a 7.1 channel sound system on a HTPC? Are there controls for different speakers volume and delay in the software?

2. Does the HDMI hd audio problem have any effect at all on the analogue outputs capability in delivering the new sound formats??

Then. What CPU is actually needed here (with the 780g, hd3200 onboard graphics) for full hd support. (I know I asked before but just need the final info.)

I'm looking at a shortlist of AMD dualcores. BE-2x00, 4x00+ series or 5x00+??
(Passive cooling in the Fusion with Silverstone NT01 or Mini Ninja is a must! Preferably with 2 120 mm Noctua's running at low 800 rpm in the side!)
1. Connect analog outs from PC to analog ins of the receiver. Controls of a sound device depends on the device. Onboard codec usually has controls for volume of each channel.

2. HDMI audio and analog outs are independent of each other. Analog sound is another method to get high-resolution audio.

For almost every BD/HD DVD movies, a single-core processor will be enough. However you still need a fast dual-core processor to play back 1080p mkv files. 5000+ Black Edition with Ninja Mini (passive cooling) is a good combination.

If I build the system above would the picture be good?
picture/movie
Yes, if it works. However in some systems (HDTV and receiver) NVIDIA cards may not work well. Then an ATI card may be an option.

jcschld

Haupauge HD PVR (USB, component video in, H.264 hardware encoder) looks very promising to record encrypted cable channels from STB.

So I am now eager to put everything together but realized I dont have all the pieces of the puzzle.Once the system is built load OS,drivers updated etc. What to do from there?
While your guide is great for explaining hardware needed and comparisons,whats next?
I have read alot through the normal forums and am lost on where to go next.
I am attempting to record TV via 2x HVR1600 and store shows.
Rip DVDs and store
BD/HD downloads will come in future
extender to 360 with Vista
no gaming
What other software/programs should I be looking at?
And for those of us just starting what do you recomend?
Powerdvd,mymovies,sagetv,meedio?

jcschld

Haupauge HD PVR (USB, component video in, H.264 hardware encoder) looks very promising to record encrypted cable channels from STB.

I was trying to hold out for this but ended up buying 2 HVR-1600 w remote today from Circuit City for $55 each.
I will try to run both until the HD PVR comes out

1. Connect analog outs from PC to analog ins of the receiver. Controls of a sound device depends on the device. Onboard codec usually has controls for volume of each channel.
Would an S/PDIF signal not also have the 7.1 channel information (assuming the source AC3 had this many channels?)

1. Connect analog outs from PC to analog ins of the receiver. Controls of a sound device depends on the device. Onboard codec usually has controls for volume of each channel.

2. HDMI audio and analog outs are independent of each other. Analog sound is another method to get high-resolution audio.

For almost every BD/HD DVD movies, a single-core processor will be enough. However you still need a fast dual-core processor to play back 1080p mkv files. 5000+ Black Edition with Ninja Mini (passive cooling) is a good combination.

I'll look into the 5000+ black edition. It seems to be the best value for money.

If I would consider the BE-2400 (45w) at 2.3 ghz (and maybe do a little overclocking?) would that be enough for 1080p mkv's??

7.1 analogue straight to a 7 channel power amp interests me, because the HTPC will be my only device at the moment (I'm gonna put 2 x technotrend DVB-S2 TV-cards for satellite HDTV in it aswell..) - But... Is there a way to set channel delay aswell as speaker volume? Maybe this depends on the audio drivers and codec.

I'm looking at the Gigabyte 780g card with SB700 and ALC889a audio. Looks great..

So I am now eager to put everything together but realized I dont have all the pieces of the puzzle.Once the system is built load OS,drivers updated etc. What to do from there?
While your guide is great for explaining hardware needed and comparisons,whats next?
I have read alot through the normal forums and am lost on where to go next.
I am attempting to record TV via 2x HVR1600 and store shows.
Rip DVDs and store
BD/HD downloads will come in future
extender to 360 with Vista
no gaming
What other software/programs should I be looking at?
And for those of us just starting what do you recomend?
Powerdvd,mymovies,sagetv,meedio?
Try

- Vista Media Center + My Movies + PowerDVD, or
- MediaPortal + MCP instead of the built-in player + PowerDVD

I still have a plan for 'software guide'.

Would an S/PDIF signal not also have the 7.1 channel information (assuming the source AC3 had this many channels?)
S/PDIF is able to carry only stereo LPCM (up to 24-bit/192kHz), 5.1 DD and DTS.

If I would consider the BE-2400 (45w) at 2.3 ghz (and maybe do a little overclocking?) would that be enough for 1080p mkv's??

7.1 analogue straight to a 7 channel power amp interests me, because the HTPC will be my only device at the moment (I'm gonna put 2 x technotrend DVB-S2 TV-cards for satellite HDTV in it aswell..) - But... Is there a way to set channel delay aswell as speaker volume? Maybe this depends on the audio drivers and codec.

I'm looking at the Gigabyte 780g card with SB700 and ALC889a audio. Looks great..
Athlon 64 X2 2.3GHz is able to handle most 1080p mkv files fine. CoreAVC is good for reducing CPU usage.

Realtek codec has volume control of each channel, but no control for delay, I think.

renethx,

Based on one of your responses above I did a little bit of research and learned the probably-obvious fact that the Scythe Ninja Mini can be used passively inside of an Antec Fusion case (since the 120mm case fan is right next to it).

I am using an E8400 processor, so would you recommend:

1. Just go with passive cooling. Silent PC Review showed good results in terms of temp, but with a Pentium D processor.
2. Dropping the voltage on the supplied 80mm (attached) fan. This blows air through the ninja, as recommended. A lower voltage would give me some of this benefit without all of the current noise of the full-speed setting.
3. Try #2, but get a better silent fan. I saw a few of these at Frys.
4. Get a fan with a 4-pin header so the MB can optimize the fan speed. I am seeing mixed reviews with regard to how well this works, but it is also an option.

Thanks.

...
4. Get a fan with a 4-pin header so the MB can optimize the fan speed. I am seeing mixed reviews with regard to how well this works, but it is also an option.


Some of the fan control options depend on your Motherboard. I'm using the ABIT P35 Pro, and it has a 4 pin header for the CPU fan, and 5 additional 3-pin fan headers for other fans. All fans can be voltage controlled independently in the BIOS depending upon the CPU temperature or a couple of other temperature sensors on the MB. Truely a very flexible solution. :)

You can control a 3-pin CPU fan from an available 3-pin header if you only have a 3-pin fan, but have to turn off CPU fan monitoring, and you don't get a RPM readout.

Ben

renethx,

Based on one of your responses above I did a little bit of research and learned the probably-obvious fact that the Scythe Ninja Mini can be used passively inside of an Antec Fusion case (since the 120mm case fan is right next to it).

I am using an E8400 processor, so would you recommend:

1. Just go with passive cooling. Silent PC Review showed good results in terms of temp, but with a Pentium D processor.
2. Dropping the voltage on the supplied 80mm (attached) fan. This blows air through the ninja, as recommended. A lower voltage would give me some of this benefit without all of the current noise of the full-speed setting.
3. Try #2, but get a better silent fan. I saw a few of these at Frys.
4. Get a fan with a 4-pin header so the MB can optimize the fan speed. I am seeing mixed reviews with regard to how well this works, but it is also an option.
1. is enough.

Alright, so I built my HTPC with the following components:

- Asus P5E-VM HDMI Motherboard (onboard HDMI output)
- Intel Core2Duo E6750 Processor
- Crucial BallistiX 2GB PC2-6400 Dual Channel DDR2 Kit (2 x 1GB)
- 40gb HDD via ATA (runs Vista Ultimate and Software)
- 320gb HDD via SATA (for all Media storage)
- LG Super Multi Blue Optical Drive via SATA

When I play HD DVD content, the video stutters quite a bit (haven't tried Blu-ray). I'm a little choked because I feel like I bought a "pretty good" processor and memory, and the Motherboard says it supports HD DVD and Blu-ray processing on the box. What could be causing this?

If I AM going to need a "real" video card, what do you recommend? I have absolutely no intent to play video games on this HTPC, but I want all video content to play flawlessly. At this point, I want to spend as little as possible to get this going.

Thanks!

Alright, so I built my HTPC with the following components:

- Asus P5E-VM HDMI Motherboard (onboard HDMI output)
- Intel Core2Duo E6750 Processor
- Crucial BallistiX 2GB PC2-6400 Dual Channel DDR2 Kit (2 x 1GB)
- 40gb HDD via ATA (runs Vista Ultimate and Software)
- 320gb HDD via SATA (for all Media storage)
- LG Super Multi Blue Optical Drive via SATA

When I play HD DVD content, the video stutters quite a bit (haven't tried Blu-ray). I'm a little choked because I feel like I bought a "pretty good" processor and memory, and the Motherboard says it supports HD DVD and Blu-ray processing on the box. What could be causing this?

If I AM going to need a "real" video card, what do you recommend? I have absolutely no intent to play video games on this HTPC, but I want all video content to play flawlessly. At this point, I want to spend as little as possible to get this going.
"Supports" means "playable", but does not guarantee smooth playback. In fact because of the total lack of hardware acceleration for H.264, you need a very powerful processor. Try to overclock the processor to 3.0-3.2GHz.

ATI Radeon HD 3450/3470/2600 Pro/2600 XT/3650, GeForce 8500 GT.

Back in November, I upgraded my video card to the XFX 7600GT AGP 8x:

http://www.xfxforce.com/web/product/listConfigurationDetails.jspa?series=GeForce%26trade%3B+7600&productConfigurationId=650008

I first installed the Nvidia 163.75 driver but I have updated to the 169.21 driver. About 3 weeks ago I bought the Samsung 275T and I'm running in dual monitor mode with the 275T as my primary monitor and my Sony 17" widescreen LCD as my secondary monitor. The 275T is connected to the videocard using a dual-link DVI-D cable. The Sony is connect to the videocard and my MDP-130 using the VGA loop-back cable. I have a VCR connected to the loop-back cable (RCA video, RCA Audio Left and Right). I found when I'm running the MDP-130 app and I switch to "composite" mode to get the VCR output, the sound is very quiet and I have to turn up the volume (the MDP-130 is not connected to the soundcard internally). I was thinking of using a RCA Audio Left/Right to 1/8" Stereo adapter and connect to the soundcard's Line in connector to solve the low audio problem.

I want to disconnect the VGA loop-back cable and connect the Sony LCD monitor directly to the videocard and switch to the MDP-130's DVI daughter card to connect the MDP-130 to the 275T. By doing this, I'll be loosing the RCA video connector input from the VGA loop-back cable.

I thought about connecting the RCA video cable from the VCR to the 7-pin DIN connector on the video card. Unfortunately, I didn't get a VIVO cable, just a S-Video cable. I'm being doing a search and VIVO cables are very hard to find. It looks like they're only available from the video card manufacturers. I've found about 3 types of VIVO cables:

1) 2x S-video and 2x RCA video connectors:
http://www.bfgtech.com/bfgrvivo.aspx

2) DVD Component (HDTV output):
http://www.bfgstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CBHDTV7P
http://www.evga.com/products/moreInfo.asp?pn=601-EV-1024-S1

3) DVD Component (output), RCA video (input), S-video (input), and S-video (ouput)
This is the cable that is pictured in XFX's GeForce 7 manual. I've looked around their website and I couldn't find this cable.

I would like to get one of each of these three cables. For now, I bought a RCA Female to S-Video male adapter from The Source:
http://www.thesourcecc.com/estore/Product.aspx?language=en-CA&catalog=Online&category=Video_Adapters&product=1511239

According to the manual, when installing the driver/software from the Driver CD, I'm suppose to install the "Capture TV" driver. When I tried to do this, I got a pop-up error "Please check www.xfxforce.com for the optimizied driver". When I went to the XFX website, I couldn't find this driver, they have the Nvidia video card drivers only. I browsed the CD contents and found the WDM folder - I think this it the TV Capture driver. I didn't want to install this until I was sure it's the correct one. I did go to Nvidia's website and found the WDM driver for the Geforce 6 and 7 but it's 2 years old. I also read some Nvidia PDF files (Release notes, etc) and it sounds like the DIN connector is for output to a TV and it tells you how to set it up with one LCD monitor and the TV (in dual mode). This is not what I want. I want dual monitor mode (2 LCD monitors) and the VCR connected to the video card through the DIN connector. I would like to pop open a sizeable video window showing the VCR video with menu options. Is this doable?

Morpheus_Rising

So your card is PV-T73A-UDE7 (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150201), right? The card does not support VIVO. That means you can't use dual monitor mode and the VCR connected to the video card through the DIN connector.

I'm planning on upgrading my HTPC which is going to result in needing a new HDTV and a new Receiver.

1. The HDTV only supports 60hz and 50hz. No way to get 23.976FPS into it nicely (Need a 72Hz supporting HDTV)

2. My Reciever is pre-HD and only does DD5.1 and DTS via Digital. I hope the majority of BRay discs have some sort of sound that will work on this until I upgrade it...

GeForce 8500 GT.

Since there are various types from various manufacturers, could you help me narrow it down a bit?

My local retailer has 6 different cards available:

eVGA e-GeForce 8500 GT 256MB PCI-E w/ DVI, HDTV-Out
256-P2-N741-LR - $59.95

eVGA e-GeForce 8500 GT 256MB PCI-E w/ DVI, HDTV-Out (Passive Cooling)
256-P2-N749-LR - $64.95

eVGA e-GeForce 8500 GT 512MB PCI-E w/ DVI, HDTV-Out
512-P2-N747-LR - $79.95

XFX Geforce 8500 GT 256MB PCI-E w/ DVI, TV-Out
PV-T86J-UAHG - $79.95

XFX Geforce 8500 GT 256MB PCI-E w/ DVI, TV-Out
PV-T86J-UAF3 - $144.95

XFX Geforce 8500 GT 512MB PCI-E w/ DVI, TV-Out
PV-T86J-YAHG - $96.95

I'd prefer passive cooling, which seems to be available on #2, #4, and #6. Of those, only #6 has 512MB. Will that make a difference for this usage or only for gaming?

Thanks! It's nice to know I'm this close to having a full system that works the way I want it to.

2. My Reciever is pre-HD and only does DD5.1 and DTS via Digital. I hope the majority of BRay discs have some sort of sound that will work on this until I upgrade it...

Does your receiver have a set of 5.1 analog inputs? If I'm not mistaken, with the right cables, you can utilize this using the 5.1 outputs on your HTPC's sound card. I'm going to be trying this as soon as my cables arrive from monoprice, so I'll let you know if that ends up being an option.

edit: I bought three of these (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021804&p_id=665&seq=1&format=2)

Since there are various types from various manufacturers, could you help me narrow it down a bit?

I recently put a PNY 8600GT card into my new HTPC (Antec Fusion case). It is only 256MB and seems to handle blu-ray, etc. quite well. It is fan-cooled, but in my case doesn't make enough noise to be significant.

Morpheus_Rising

So your card is PV-T73A-UDE7 (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150201), right? The card does not support VIVO. That means you can't use dual monitor mode and the VCR connected to the video card through the DIN connector.

No, I have the PVT73AUDE3 card. From the user reviews they state that it is the same card just package differently. The only differences that I could find is the PVT73AUDE3 comes in a rectangle box with one VGA to DVI adapter vs the PVT73AUDE7 which comes in the X-shaped box and comes with 2 VGA to DVI adapters. There is a sheet of paper that states I can plug in a 4-pin cable, 7-pin cable, and a 9-pin cable in the video card's 7-pin DIN connector.

What about the WDM driver? Is this for the DIN connector and should I install the WDM driver? So, the DIN connector is only video out to a TV? If that's true, then the only option is to connect the RCA video cable from the vcr to one of the LCD Monitors (both LCD monitors have RCA video, S-video, and Component video connectors.) However, the downside to this is that the LCD monitor is doing the video processing which is not as good as the video card's video processing and it's viewable on one monitor vs viewable on both monitors from the output of the video card.

For Intel setup what is the latest and BEST mobo - meaning all of the best features - with at least 1 HDMI out?

Is it still the Asus P5E-VM HDMI Motherboard ?

Also, what is currently the best "value" Intel Core2Duo 65 nm chipset available and will that change in the near future ?

Thanks ... it's tough to stay up on all of the action.

No, I have the PVT73AUDE3 card. From the user reviews they state that it is the same card just package differently. The only differences that I could find is the PVT73AUDE3 comes in a rectangle box with one VGA to DVI adapter vs the PVT73AUDE7 which comes in the X-shaped box and comes with 2 VGA to DVI adapters. There is a sheet of paper that states I can plug in a 4-pin cable, 7-pin cable, and a 9-pin cable in the video card's 7-pin DIN connector.

What about the WDM driver? Is this for the DIN connector and should I install the WDM driver? So, the DIN connector is only video out to a TV? If that's true, then the only option is to connect the RCA video cable from the vcr to one of the LCD Monitors (both LCD monitors have RCA video, S-video, and Component video connectors.) However, the downside to this is that the LCD monitor is doing the video processing which is not as good as the video card's video processing and it's viewable on one monitor vs viewable on both monitors from the output of the video card.
PVT73AUDE3/PVT73AUDE7 does not support video-in. However most TV tuner support video-in; use it instead.

Since there are various types from various manufacturers, could you help me narrow it down a bit?
Either

- eVGA 256-P2-N749-LR or
- XFX PV-T86J-UAHG

512MB is for better gaming.

For Intel setup what is the latest and BEST mobo - meaning all of the best features - with at least 1 HDMI out?

Is it still the Asus P5E-VM HDMI Motherboard ?

Also, what is currently the best "value" Intel Core2Duo 65 nm chipset available and will that change in the near future ?

Thanks ... it's tough to stay up on all of the action.
Yup, it's ASUS P5E-VM HDMI. But you will need a very fast processor for playing back BD/HD DVD with this onboard video because hardware acceleration is absent. E8400 ($183@1000 qty) was supposed to be the best bang for the buck, but its price is now inflating (> $220). Either Pentium Dual-Core E2200 2.2GHz/E2220 2.4GHz (March 2) or Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz/E4700 2.6GHz (March 2) is a good value if you are willing to overclock it.

Are video decoders optimized for multiple cores? The Athlon 64 LE-1640 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103239) is a cheap and fast single core processor (2.6 ghz) with very low 45 watt power consumption; could this processor handle decoding H.264, VC-1, etc. for 1080p Blu-Ray and HD-DVD playback with no GPU assistance? Apparently the chip can even be overclocked to 3ghz and beyond with very little difficulty.

Are video decoders optimized for multiple cores? The Athlon 64 LE-1640 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103239) is a cheap and fast single core processor (2.6 ghz) with very low 45 watt power consumption; could this processor handle decoding H.264, VC-1, etc. for 1080p Blu-Ray and HD-DVD playback with no GPU assistance? Apparently the chip can even be overclocked to 3ghz and beyond with very little difficulty.
CyberLink, ArcSoft and perhaps Nero ShowTime are optimized for up to quad core.

A single-core processor can't handle BD / HD DVD movies without GPU assistance.

Are video decoders optimized for multiple cores? The Athlon 64 LE-1640 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103239) is a cheap and fast single core processor (2.6 ghz) with very low 45 watt power consumption; could this processor handle decoding H.264, VC-1, etc. for 1080p Blu-Ray and HD-DVD playback with no GPU assistance? Apparently the chip can even be overclocked to 3ghz and beyond with very little difficulty.

Go dual core. I think you can get 45W dual cores up to 2.3GHz, I have a feeling they would work very well.

Yup, it's ASUS P5E-VM HDMI. But you will need a very fast processor for playing back BD/HD DVD with this onboard video because hardware acceleration is absent. E8400 ($183@1000 qty) was supposed to be the best bang for the buck, but its price is now inflating (> $220). Either Pentium Dual-Core E2200 2.2GHz/E2220 2.4GHz (March 2) or Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz/E4700 2.6GHz (March 2) is a good value if you are willing to overclock it.

With the hardware acceleration thing. If you were to use FFDSHOW for processing does that use hardware acceleration at all? To my understanding I thought FFDSHOW was all cpu driven. In which case the ASUS P5E-VM HDMI with a good CPU would be a good idea for the likes of me.

If you were to use FFDSHOW for processing does that use hardware acceleration at all?
FFDSHOW does not support hardware acceleration.

Yup, it's ASUS P5E-VM HDMI. But you will need a very fast processor for playing back BD/HD DVD with this onboard video because hardware acceleration is absent. E8400 ($183@1000 qty) was supposed to be the best bang for the buck, but its price is now inflating (> $220). Either Pentium Dual-Core E2200 2.2GHz/E2220 2.4GHz (March 2) or Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz/E4700 2.6GHz (March 2) is a good value if you are willing to overclock it.

Thanks Renthx - I am tracking the 8200 thread also ... will those generation of mobos have hardware acceleration and handle BD better, or is there a better solution in the mATX coming soon ?

Thanks Renthx - I am tracking the 8200 thread also ... will those generation of mobos have hardware acceleration and handle BD better, or is there a better solution in the mATX coming soon ?
GeForce 8200 and AMD 780G support full HA and handle BD much better than G35.

Both are the AMD platform. For the Intel platform, NVIDIA MCP7A and Intel G45 are expected in April-June, both of which support full HA.

Renthx,

First, I want to say WOW, WOW, and Holy Cow! This is a treasure chest of great information that you and your team have put together. I am very impressed and much more excited now to undertake this adventure.

I am in the process of putting together a new HTPC from scratch that will play DVD's for now but will be upgradeable to Blue-Ray and HD Dvd in the future. I am doing this on a budget, so it puts some constraints on this effort.

I pulled the trigger on a Intel Core 2 Duo Processor E2180 at TigerDirect that was on sale for 69.99 with 20.00 MIR = 49.99.

I saw on your post that you recommend we hold off on the GA-G33M-S2H, and I am fine with that, but what model(s) (based on what you have seen) will have the onboard LAN/sound/video and would also be well suited to overclock an E2180 processor to the performance level necessary as an HTPC? I know this is sort of backwards, but I initially liked this board based on Tom's Hardware review, then read your recommendations, and now want to hold off for the next model that will play well with the E2180 since it is only a few weeks away at the most. If no boards will perform as an HTPC with the E2180 and I need to return the processor, that's not a problem.

For those looking for this exact board, here is a link to a site (Amazon partner) still selling the GA-G33M-S2H at 131.04 or so + s/h (at the time this is being composed).

I also checked on the memory for it and found some Cruicial Ballistix, but wasn't sure if it would make up for the slower processor in this case. CAS 4-4-4-12.

Initially I was thinking I would overclock the E2180 on the GA-G33M-S2H to 3.0+ GHz with 2GB of Crucial Ballistix and then get a TV capture card for HD OTA and analog cable (to be upgraded at a later date).

Questions:
1. Is this a pretty reasonable build that should work for what I need?
2. If I wait, what board should I be looking at that will overclock well with the E2180?
Also, any other input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Size (1GB or 2GB)

Under Windows XP, you won't see any system performance difference between 1GB and 2GB. If budget permits, choose 2GB. Otherwise 1GB is enough. You can add another 1GB later if necessary. You should buy two sticks of 512MB modules for 1GB or two sticks of 1GB modules for 2GB to enable the dual channel mode.

Windows Vista is a different story. OS itself requires lots of memory space so that 2GB is standard.I actually now recommend 4 gigabytes, even for a 32-bit Windows XP system. Since many modern video cards in HTPC's use 512MB, that leaves 3.5GB free due to the 4GB address-space limitation of a 32-bit system (XP or Vista).

The reason is to turn off the Windows swapfile, and have a 2+ gigabyte disk cache as a result, even if I only use 500MB during regular PC use.

This is especially useful if you run lots of software. I can launch Half Life 2 Episode 2. Exit. Then I can launch Google Picasa. Exit. Then I can launch PowerDVD Pro. Exit. Then I can launch to burn a full DVD. Exit. Then tomorrow, I launch Half Life 2 Episode 2. It loads nearly instantly -- because it's still in the disk cache even from yesterday.

Hate that computer slowness after that overnight full-system defrag or virusscan? Hate PowerDVD taking forever to load after having run a big videogame of Bioshock? Have tons of home theater system tray apps such as Homeseer, alongside hogs such as Google Desktop and Antivirus/Windows Defender/etc? (that uses up resident memory just being in the system tray) Then you'll like having 4GB -- it helps keep applications fast-launching even after the disk cache has been thrashed about, when you launch the memory hog media software the next day... Have PowerDVD launch much faster (because it's still in diskcache, because of having 4GB) even after you've played a videogame, etc.... Even on XP...

Going the full 4GB is only $70 extra. Go ahead and max out at 4GB. It may be marginal, but everyone appreciates a HTPC where applications launches fast, especially if you've also installed game software on it, on top of letting HomeSeer/Girder/etc run in the system tray... And the lack of swapfile means you won't get those video stutters if one of your system tray software suddenly decides to do an autoupdate while you're watching a movie, etc...

It's subtle things like those that 4GB helps a few videophile nitpicks - it may be marginal over 2GB, but it's definitely there.

If the DVD player is the only software you have installed on an XP system (i.e. basic HTPC setup), then 1GB or 2GB is definitely more than enough, especially if you keep it pretty clean of all those excess system tray apps. However, 4GB *does* improve the application launch performance if you switch between lots of software. Even on XP.

For those who stick to 2GB because of the extra heat that 4GB generates, you can slightly underclock it (i.e. 800Mhz at 640) to make it run cool on a silent PC. The performance difference is nearly negligible for hometheater, if you're using modern CPU's with a few megabytes of L2 cache, and a banquet of a disk cache is more important for fast-launching home theater apps if your menu of media apps is sufficiently full...

At ~$70 to double from 2GB to 4GB, I wholeheartedly recommend 4GB. If not, go 2GB as that's only ~$30 more expensive than 1GB. The 1GB recommendation was good in the days of $100 gigabyte sticks, but this recommendation outdated today.

Acidshort

GA-G33M-S2H is not worth considering for several reasons.

1. It's terribly overpriced ($130).
2. To play BD/HD DVD, you will need a very fast processor, say 3.0GHz. Even with that speed, there is no guarantee for smooth playback.
3. You will need DDR2-1066 to overclock E2180 to 3.0GHz with this board (though DDR2-1066 is not so pricey right now).

If you want to go with the Intel platform, "MicroATX System - Low-End II" is a much better choice. CPU can be E2180 with no problem. Video card can be eVGA GeForce 8500 GT 256-P2-N749-LR. Smooth playback of BD/HD DVD is guaranteed without overclocking.

- MB: eVGA GeForce 7100/nForce 630i (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007009), $55 AR
- Video: eVGA GeForce 8500 GT (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007554), $45 AR
- Total: $100 AR

If you don't mind going with AMD, then AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 mb is recommended.

If you do any gaming on HTPC too, I recommend the Radeon HD3850 (or HD3870) as they use new 55nm silicon -- they are among the most power-miserly gaming-capable graphics card. (A miracle from the power hungry 2900 HD). Measured less than 20 watts in idle mode, and can be made fanless with modifications.

The Geforce is better in many ways, but silent HTPC tweakers will find the new HD3850 a godsend if they want a near-silent videogame capable machine... (You will have to rip off the stock fan, and get a quiet addon) It's reasonably priced at well under $200, currently listed on Tomshardware as best 3D graphics card under $200). It even has all the HD acceleration stuff, including both H264 and VC1. Something that some of ATI's predecessors didn't have... And 1080p @ 60fps in HalfLife2 series videogame. At max quality 3D settings. At 4X AA and 16X ansio.

From a gamer who also has a focus on low-power systems. An oxymoron, but the 45nm Intel CPU's and 55nm ATI GPU's are making it possible now, combined with one of the cooler running HD's and 85% efficient PSU -- resulting in a sub-100 watt gaming rig! (well, at idle, anyway).

If no gaming is needed, it really doesn't matter as much and sub-50-watt highdef boxes are possible if you choose your computer parts carefully. But if you need quiet+low power+high end 3D gaming (a tough combination to achieve), the new Radeon HD3850 (or 3870) is the current winner as long as you replace the stock fan.

I have a Kill-a-watt unit, which verifies the power consumption at the power socket (it can measure watts, VA, volts, amps, Hz, power factor.) My 3870-based gaming rig uses only 109VA (105W, PF of about 0.95) at the power outlet, but I am using an older Core2 CPU and a 750MB HDD that gobbles 15W, so you can do even better now.

The new Intel Core2 E8XXX series (45nm CPU) use as little as 2.5 watts at idle, and the use of one of the 'green' HDD's can run under 5 watts, easily resulting in a high end gaming rig that uses less than 100 watts at idle, remarkable considering high end gaming rigs easily consumed 200 watts only a couple years ago... (and created too much heat to use silent cooling methods). Just build from scratch using Core2 E8XXX series, an ATI Radeon 38XX series, a WD Green drive, an 85%+ efficient PSU with 99% PFC, a good motherboard, you can passively cool the gaming rig if you wanted to (when it's not playing a 3D game at least).

Mark Rejhon, thanks for advice.

As for low power consumption in a gaming machine, NVIDIA motherboards (both in AMD and Intel platform) are likely to be the winner because of HybridPower. Not only GeForce 8200/8300 mGPU for AMD, but also the upcoming chipsets nForce 750a SLI (AMD), nForce 780a SLI (AMD), nForce 790i SLI (Intel) and MCP7A (Intel) all have integrated graphics and support HybridPower. This technology shuts off the discrete graphics (single or SLI) when 3D performance is not required (apart from Vista Aero that is processed by integrated graphics), thus reduces the power consumption and noise dramatically.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102225

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=102226

AMD motherboards are expected to support a similar function by "Hybrid Graphics", but so far no motherboard with power reduction mechanism has been announced.

Renethx, (sorry for earlier sp)

Thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction. For the price and getting a box started, the mods on the recommended MOBO are great! I am placing the order for that board.

As for the vid board, I currenly play COD4 and BF2 but mostly D2. I am willing to bet that the onboard vid will work for the D2, but the others may require the recommended graphics card or something more. Given the video gaming side of things, would the eVGA 8500 take care of that, or would I need to select a different model?

Mark,

Thanks again for your input as well, as it reminded me that I do play some games and would like to continue on this new box. I really don't know how graphic intensive COD4 is with max settings turned on, as i just recently got it. I know that BF2 is somewhat intense. What brand of card would you recommend based on your experience?

I also saw that the 8800GT has dropped below 200$ on slickdeals, is that even more bang for the buck as compared to the 3850/70?

Once the board, processor, and memory arrive, I plan to put it together and then work on the vid card, htpc case (to replace my ATX case. I also have a relatively new power supply (Cooler Master: RS-450-ACLY) which may be gross overkill if I plan to use 3 SATA drives in RAID, DVD/CD Burner, TV Tuner card, IPOD/Camera, memory stick, and that is pretty much it.

I will go with your recommendations from page 1 for the HDD's (Samsung SpinPoint T166 320GB HD321KJ) and I will probably swap out the power supply once it's tested up and running. I will go with a quiet and yet stout enough one from the rateds on the front page (Corsair HX520W or Antec NeoHE 430).
* CPU: 117W - 130W (E2180 Overclocked or Core 2 Duo)
* DDR2 DIMM: 5W X2 = 10W
* Motherboard: 40W
* GeForce 7600 GT: 36W (peak 3D), 23W (peak 2D), 15W (idle)
* GeForce 8600 GTS: 47W (peak 3D), 31W (peak 2D), 21W (idle)
* GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB: 103W (peak 3D), 69W (peak 2D), 56W (idle)
* DVD drive: 30W
* SATA drive: 12W X 3 = 36W
* PCI TV tuner card: 30W (ATI Theater 550 Pro)
* PCI TV tuner card: 44W (NVIDIA DualTV MCE)
* 80mm fan: 2W

130 + 10 + 40 + 103 (gaming card?) + 30 + 36 + 44 + 2 = 395 and 80% of 500W is roughly 400W.


I know this is a rough guess at best, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. The hard part is also being safe and silent. :cool:

Acidshort

OK, another factor came in: gaming. :) GeForce 7100 supports only single-channel memory so that 3D performance is behind the Intel chipset P35/G33/G35. Look at these charts (3DMark06, Prey, Far Cry) (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1236/10/page_10_benchmarks_3dmark06/index.html). If you want the best 3D performance, you may want to choose G33 or G31 (or P35 if you don't mind ATX).

Choosing a right video card is not so easy. It depends on frame rate you would like and your budget. Clearly you should avoid GeForce 8500 GT. A rough ranking of 3D performance of the current major video cards is:

HD 3850 ($179) < GeForce 9600 GT ($169-189) << HD 3870 ($219) < GeForce 8800 GT 512MB ($249) << HD 3870 X2 ($449) < GeForce 9800 GX2.

Among them 9600 GT and 9800 GX2 will support HybridPower. Frame rate charts (COD4) are, for example:

- X-bit labs (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd3870-hd3850_20.html)
- 太平洋电脑网Pconline (http://www.pconline.com.cn/diy/graphics/reviews/0802/1222458_10.html)

A few possible combinations are:

- E2180, $50 AR
- eVGA 7100, $55 AR or GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L, $67
- GeForce 9600 GT (Feb 21), ~$170

- Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Black Edition, $100
- GeForce 8200 mGPU motherboard (early March), ~$80
- GeForce 9600 GT (Feb 21), ~$170

HybridPower should work in the second system. TDP of GeForce 9600 GT is 95W. So 430W PSU is fine in either configuration. BTW the power consumption of E2180 @3.0GHz will not exceed 65W (unless you raise voltage significantly) because TDP of E6850 3.0GHz (Conroe) is only 65W and E2180 has much less transistors than E6850.

I've been following this thread for a while and I'm getting close to construction time. I've been hoping to be able to drive my speakers from a sound card and avoid using a power amp and preamp in the Home Theater setup. I looked up the specs for the asus and creative cards but nowhere did they list the power output in Watts(rms). Anybody know they're power specs or have any experience driving speakers directly.

thanks

GeForce 8200 and AMD 780G support full HA and handle BD much better than G35.

Both are the AMD platform. For the Intel platform, NVIDIA MCP7A and Intel G45 are expected in April-June, both of which support full HA.

I won't be able to wait that long, and I really prefer Intel. What is the "best performance value" if I go the add-on video card route in combination with the Asus. Again, I prefer NVIDIA but want a new gen card - is the 8600 series adequate for HA?

Should the NVIDIA MCP7A arrive "before" the Intel G45 mobos?

IF, I fall back to an AMD platform for this HTPC version, what is the best mobo/CPU combo ... or just wait for the 8200 series announcements ?

Mark Rejhon, thanks for advice.

As for low power consumption in a gaming machine, NVIDIA motherboards (both in AMD and Intel platform) are likely to be the winner because of HybridPower. Not only GeForce 8200/8300 mGPU for AMD, but also the upcoming chipsets nForce 750a SLI (AMD), nForce 780a SLI (AMD), nForce 790i SLI (Intel) and MCP7A (Intel) all have integrated graphics and support HybridPower. This technology shuts off the discrete graphics (single or SLI) when 3D performance is not required (apart from Vista Aero that is processed by integrated graphics), thus reduces the power consumption and noise dramatically.That's an excellent feature -- as long as you choose one of the Geforce cards that can run at low power at max throttle 3D gaming.

Don't forget videogame power load too -- a carefully built low power ATI Radeon 3850 rig (45nm CPU + green HDD + 85% efficient PSU) can use less than 150 watts (full system, at power outlet) while videogaming full tilt at 1080p/60fps. That's similiar to a PlayStation3 power load, with similiar graphics quality (better in some areas)...

If gaming for extensive periods at light cooling, this could become a factor. Some of the Geforce (8800 Ultra) and ATI (HD 2900XT 1GB) cards are real power hogs. 200 watts per card, 400 watt in dual card configs -- crazy wattage for a HTPC.

* GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB: 103W (peak 3D), 69W (peak 2D), 56W (idle)That's a bit of a power hog, for idle. Suggest choosing a different Geforce for a HTPC...

You may want to be aware that even the lowly the Radeon 3850 has slightly better framerates than the Geforce 8800 GTS 320MB in Bioshock (link (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd3870-hd3850_19.html#sect2)) at 1920x1200, and nearly identical framerates in Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (link (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd3870-hd3850_20.html)) while consuming having less power (19 watt idle, 25 watt 2D full blast, and 81 watt full videogaming - link (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd3870-hd3850_13.html)). In other games such as Crysis, the Geforce performs better, but getting the faster 3870 over the 3850 can nearly eliminate the difference. I feel overall, from a HTPC perspective, the ATI 3850 512MB is preferable to the 8800 GTS 320MB. (better price, better power consumption, more memory, similiar performance, low power H264/VC1 acceleration). And for only a few dollars more, the faster 3870 is a great deal too.

If you want to save even more power, the 3850 uses only 13.5 watt at idle, 20 watt at max 2D, and only 63.1 watt at full 3D blast. Some 3850's can be overclocked to near 3870 speeds (with the resulting increase in power consumption). At 13.5 watts idling waiting for the user, pretty much no need to turn off the GPU, especially if you still need it to display static 2D graphics such as HTPC menus, most HTPC's run only one graphics card anyway...

If you need top of the line and don't care about cooling/heat/noise in a home theater, the Geforce 8800 GTX/Ultra has been the classic in the last year. But I do think the 3800 series should merit a very close look by the HTPC community, from my wattage meter testing... At power outlet, full system sub-100W idle and sub-150W full bast 3D is now doable with carefully selected components.

Also, for CPU, consider the new E8XX series (i.e. E8500). They use even less power at idle, as little as 2.5 watt idle. Idle at only 31 degrees C - that's barely heating up! And they have massive overclock overhead on good equipment. 4.7 gigahertz overclock on air cooling (link (http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php)). Yes, Wolfdale has just hit the market already this month - it's in local computer stores now. Basically, Core 2 E8XXX series (i.e. E8400, E8500, etc) which is going to gradually replace the older E6XXX series (i.e. E6750). And amazing bang for the buck - the entry level E8XXX's are inexpensive. I think new HTPC builds as of early 08 should use this CPU, even if they're not gaming boxes. Much easier to go fanless with Core 2 E8XXX series (Wolfdale) than other desktop Core 2 CPU's.

That's a bit of a power hog, for idle. Suggest choosing a different Geforce for a HTPC...

Also, for CPU, consider the new E8XX series (i.e. E8500). They use even less power at idle, as little as 2.5 watt idle. Idle at only 31 degrees C - that's barely heating up! And they have massive overclock overhead on good equipment. 4.7 gigahertz overclock on air cooling (link (http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php)). Yes, Wolfdale has just hit the market already this month - it's in local computer stores now. Basically, Core 2 E8XXX series (i.e. E8400, E8500, etc) which is going to gradually replace the older E6XXX series (i.e. E6750). And amazing bang for the buck - the entry level E8XXX's are inexpensive. I think new HTPC builds as of early 08 should use this CPU, even if they're not gaming boxes. Much easier to go fanless with Core 2 E8XXX series (Wolfdale) than other desktop Core 2 CPU's.

The fanless with Core 2 E8XXX series (Wolfdale) are available NOW - what mATX mobos do you recommend ... with HDMI out?

I've been following this thread for a while and I'm getting close to construction time. I've been hoping to be able to drive my speakers from a sound card and avoid using a power amp and preamp in the Home Theater setup. I looked up the specs for the asus and creative cards but nowhere did they list the power output in Watts(rms). Anybody know they're power specs or have any experience driving speakers directly.

thanks

I could be wrong but I simply do not think it will happen. Sound cards are not amplifiers therefore unless the speakers have built in amps it won't be any good.

Yup, it's ASUS P5E-VM HDMI. But you will need a very fast processor for playing back BD/HD DVD with this onboard video because hardware acceleration is absent. E8400 ($183@1000 qty) was supposed to be the best bang for the buck, but its price is now inflating (> $220). Either Pentium Dual-Core E2200 2.2GHz/E2220 2.4GHz (March 2) or Core 2 Duo E4600 2.4GHz/E4700 2.6GHz (March 2) is a good value if you are willing to overclock it.

I like the Wolfdale E8400, but locally it is $269.95 - same online - is that just "temporary" supply/demand, or did the price by Intel go up?

Secondly, is an older gen (65w) Q6600 better or worse in an HTPC environment - and HA for BD eventually - nearly the same price locally.

As aamilo says - can't be done.

You must have a seperate AVR or seperates for HT use.

I could be wrong but I simply do not think it will happen. Sound cards are not amplifiers therefore unless the speakers have built in amps it won't be any good.

I won't be able to wait that long, and I really prefer Intel. What is the "best performance value" if I go the add-on video card route in combination with the Asus. Again, I prefer NVIDIA but want a new gen card - is the 8600 series adequate for HA?

Should the NVIDIA MCP7A arrive "before" the Intel G45 mobos?

IF, I fall back to an AMD platform for this HTPC version, what is the best mobo/CPU combo ... or just wait for the 8200 series announcements ?
It's hard to answer all of your questions adequately. If you want a new system immediately, choose one of my recommendations in the guide. AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 is good, but can't beat a discrete card anyway. As for the new gen NVIDIA cards, GeForce 9600 GT comes on February 21. 9400 GT, 9500 GT, 9600 GS, 9800 GX2 all come in March or later.

MCP7A is expected in April, G45 in June.

I like the Wolfdale E8400, but locally it is $269.95 - same online - is that just "temporary" supply/demand, or did the price by Intel go up?

Secondly, is an older gen (65w) Q6600 better or worse in an HTPC environment - and HA for BD eventually - nearly the same price locally.
The answer to the first question is here (http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20080130PD224.html).

Q6600 is better for P5E-VM HDMI.

MCP7A is expected in April, G45 in June.

Q6600 is better for P5E-VM HDMI.

Renethx,

Man, you sure know your stuff !! I am sure a lot of people, beside us, benefit from this series of questions, so can you please elaborate on whether anyone has announced any MCP7A based boards yet - I have read about this chipset and it is exactly what I am looking for and April is not that far away.

Second, with the imminent release to the channel of the next gen NVIDIA (my preference) boards, what is you recommendation of Mobos for this new board series ?

Will these boards finally have HDMI connectors or still DVI because they are video boards ?

Finally, can you elaborate on why a 2.4 GHz Quad would be better that a 3GHz Wolfdale that supposedly can be overclocked to 3.6 or greater (your link in a previous email) - I hope that didn't sound too dumb ?

Renethx,

Man, you sure know your stuff !! I am sure a lot of people, beside us, benefit from this series of questions, so can you please elaborate on whether anyone has announced any MCP7A based boards yet - I have read about this chipset and it is exactly what I am looking for and April is not that far away.

Second, with the imminent release to the channel of the next gen NVIDIA (my preference) boards, what is you recommendation of Mobos for this new board series ?

Will these boards finally have HDMI connectors or still DVI because they are video boards ?

Finally, can you elaborate on why a 2.4 GHz Quad would be better that a 3GHz Wolfdale that supposedly can be overclocked to 3.6 or greater (your link in a previous email) - I hope that didn't sound too dumb ?
There is very scarce information on MCP7A. Perhaps nobody (outside NVIDIA and mb manufacturers) has ever seen the actual silicon (just like G45). The folloing are the only major sources on MCP7A (afaik):

- OCWorkBench – MCP7A to improve on MCP73 specs and performance (http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?%20threadid=68682)
- DigTimes - Nvidia to launch MCP7A in April, MCP7C in August (http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080107PD216.html)

From its specs, it will be the Intel version of GeForce 8200 mGPU.

I was about to purchase G45 with Intel E8400 for HD playback since I can't fit a graphic card, but the information from renethx caught my attention. The fact that G45 doesn't support HD playback in XP is also a great disadvantage for me.

I'm now considering Geforce 8200, AMD 780G or any of the other newcomers. I'm a little concerned though about the performance review I've seen of AMD CPU's. Both Intel E6000 and E8000 seems to totally outperform AMD in the same price range and even more expensive AMD's. But does this matter when I'm not planning to use the HTPC for gaming, but only high-end audio and video?
If I for example choose Geforce 8200 with the recommended Athlon X2 BE-2400, will I experience a slower HTPC compared to G45 and Intel E8400? I'll use DSP (room correction).

I also have a question concerning HD audio. I will use two LynxTwoB in my HTPC and analogue utputs directly to poweramps. Does it matter which motherboard I pick to get HD audio to work this way? What software is recommended?

omholt, check your PM. Either AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 mb is best suited for your system. I am not sure about 'software' for HD audio. What does that mean?

omholt, check your PM. Either AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 mb is best suited for your system. I am not sure about 'software' for HD audio. What does that mean?
Thanks. I'm still a bit uncertain about AMD CPU's performance. I'm not sure how much CPU power I need, but more then a typical 5.1 system. I'll be running a system with DSP, active crossover and 11-12 ouputs from soundcards. I also need to make sure I use a processor with maximum 65W TDP.

Since I'll not use a surround receiver, decoding of audio needs to take place in the HTPC. That's what I meant with software.

There is very scarce information on MCP7A. Perhaps nobody (outside NVIDIA and mb manufacturers) has ever seen the actual silicon (just like G45). The folloing are the only major sources on MCP7A (afaik):

- OCWorkBench – MCP7A to improve on MCP73 specs and performance (http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/showthread.php?%20threadid=68682)
- DigTimes - Nvidia to launch MCP7A in April, MCP7C in August (http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20080107PD216.html)

From its specs, it will be the Intel version of GeForce 8200 mGPU.

Renethx,

Thanks for the MCP7A info ... can you elaborate on why a 2.4 GHz Quad would be better that a 3GHz Wolfdale than supposedly can be overclocked to 3.6 or greater (your link in a previous email).

I discovered this very detailed review from Feb 8th (is only part) that offers a great set of data ... but, what about in an HTPC environment ??

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-q9300_5.html#sect0

I'm hoping someone can help me shed a little cost of my design.

This will be used primarily for BlueRay/HD-DVD playback, clear-QAM and SD DirecTV recording/playback and an occasional game. It will also be used to capture/play back HD Video from a Sony HDR-HC3 camcorder and perform video conversion, i.e., DVD to WMV. I need to connect to a 58" Panasonic Plasma with HDMI.

CPU: Intel Q6600 OEM $254.00

CPU Cooling: ZEROtherm BTF90 92mm Silent UFO CPU Cooler - Retail $30.00

Motherboard: Foxconn P35A LGA 775 Intel P35 $140.00

Memory: (2) A-DATA: Item#:N82E16820211188 (4 gigs) $78.00

Video Card: H365P512GNP Radeon HD 3650 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported iSilenceIII $150.00

LG Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Combo $229.00

AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe MCE $109.00

Case: Silverstone LASCALA 10 CS-SST-LC10B $85.00

Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 EPS12V EPS12V 610W $119.00

Anything not listed here (hard disks, etc..) is already covered.

I'm currently at $1194

sritter

Silverstone Lascala LC17 better cooling better fans, same price give or take $10

CPU: Intel Q6600 OEM $254.00 why spend so much? get a Core 2 and save a $100

Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610 EPS12V EPS12V 610W $119.00
Overkill search around, 400 watt more than enough.

I ordered parts for a new htpc. The motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P. I'm reading the manual to it online. It says you should cool the northbridge with a fan. Apparently, it comes with a heatsink on the northbridge, but no fan. I suspect the recommendation to use a northbridge fan is not unique to this motherboard. If it is so essential that it be there, why is it not built into the motherboard?

If I don't overclock the system and I have good case ventilation, am I really likely to need a northbridge fan?

I ordered parts for a new htpc. The motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-EP35-DS3P. I'm reading the manual to it online. It says you should cool the northbridge with a fan. Apparently, it comes with a heatsink on the northbridge, but no fan. I suspect the recommendation to use a northbridge fan is not unique to this motherboard. If it is so essential that it be there, why is it not built into the motherboard?

If I don't overclock the system and I have good case ventilation, am I really likely to need a northbridge fan?

I'm getting the same board and not planning on cooling chipset.

Renethx,

Thanks for the MCP7A info ... can you elaborate on why a 2.4 GHz Quad would be better that a 3GHz Wolfdale than supposedly can be overclocked to 3.6 or greater (your link in a previous email).

I discovered this very detailed review from Feb 8th (is only part) that offers a great set of data ... but, what about in an HTPC environment ??

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-q9300_5.html#sect0
Q6600 is better than the dual-core 3.0GHz in decoding performance (see this chart (http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=872&model2=871&chart=441); I assumed E8400 and E6850 show similar performance). The chart you cited simply shows that there are still many applications that are not optimized for quad-core, unfortunately. :) As for overclocking, Q6600 can be overclocked easily to 3.0GHz without raising voltage and to 3.6GHz with a slight bump of voltage. The price of E8400 is ridiculously high right now, close to that of Q6600.

I'd be interested in OSX approved hardware for a HTPC in the guide. I'm waffling between getting a mac mini for a htpc or building a hackintosh.
Its hard to beat the size of the mini though.

Q6600 is better than the dual-core 3.0GHz in decoding performance (see this chart (http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=872&model2=871&chart=441); I assumed E8400 and E6850 show similar performance). The chart you cited simply shows that there are still many applications that are not optimized for quad-core, unfortunately. :) As for overclocking, Q6600 can be overclocked easily to 3.0GHz without raising voltage and to 3.6GHz with a slight bump of voltage. The price of E8400 is ridiculously high right now, close to that of Q6600.

GREAT chart - so what would the chart look like with the addition of a graphics card/chip with HD hardware - near 0 ??

Based on your inputs the Q6600 seems like the winner from multiple perspectives.

The article I cited quoted that the next gen Q9400 (which sounds like it replaces the Q6600) will be essentially "2" complete 8400's on a single die. Supposedly, according to the article, the OC potential is not nearly as good as with the Q6600, but is quite a leap forward in CPU power - for optimized apps of course.

AND ... at least according to the article ... at the SAME price point as the Q6600 !!

Thanks for ALL of you comments !!

I'm having a lot of trouble decyphering what I'm going to need for my build (especially when it comes to mobo, cpu, and graphics card) and it's getting close to ordering time. So, I wanted to get in here again with a description that is a bit more detailed and see if I can get this sorted out.

What I'm going for:
-mid tower (so no matx)
-sticking with windows xp for now
-never done any overclocking. Kind of hesitant to start
-going with 4gigs of ram
-discrete video card
-If it's doable, hdmi output for widescreen hd-video and audio(surround at least, hd-audio hopefully)
-hd video, for the time being is almost exclusively downloaded stuff (hd TV shows, mkv files, that type of thing), I may end up using it for blu ray at some point
-I don't mind if the pc makes some noise, as long as the noise is masked by average volume audio when I am watching something or listening to music.
-I'd like to try and keep the power consumption low
-games: mainly emulated stuff, PS2/Xbox level stuff at the most
-total cost: hoping to keep it under $1400. Hope that gives a general idea.

All input is welcome

Thanks to the OP!

At first I knew nothing about building a PC. I did my research and was going to wait for the G45. I'm glad I didn't. 1080p MKV is amazing on my Samsung 5265 52" LCD.

This is what I got

Antec P182 case $45 AR Fry's.com
Earthwatt 500 PSU $40 AR
Gigabyte GA-p35-DS3L $94.99 Local Frys
Intel e8400 $189.99 Microcenter
4 GB 2x2 A-DATA DDR2 PC6400 $55 AR
GeForce 6200 LE PCIe Video Free After rebate Frys
750gb Western Digital $55.99 Best Buy deal

$481 + Tax (free shipping) Not Bad:-)

I'm use an IDE DVD burner I have, Keyboard, Logitech VX Revolution mouse.

I have a HPVR-1600 card from a while ago, i will try in the near future

Even if the G45s are great. There will be bugs and problems for a few months. The gigabyte board is great. If I want to upgrade to a G45, I could probably sell the Gigabyte, and my upgrade cost would be minimal.

I will be trying to run OSx86. The Frontrow media software is like the Apple TV interface. Very nice, and with Parallels I can switch back and forth from Leopard to XP pro. What version of Vista is good for HTPC?


Very Happy Camper:-)

PS for Divx and MKV, is there a player that can give me DVD like fast forward, different speeds? I can do this with my cheap DIVX DVD player so its not a format problem. I hate having to use my mouse to click on the time line bar in WMP11. I've tried other players. I have a remote control that work with the HPVR-1600.

Thanks

I'm having a lot of trouble decyphering what I'm going to need for my build (especially when it comes to mobo, cpu, and graphics card) and it's getting close to ordering time. So, I wanted to get in here again with a description that is a bit more detailed and see if I can get this sorted out.

What I'm going for:
-mid tower (so no matx)
-sticking with windows xp for now
-never done any overclocking. Kind of hesitant to start
-going with 4gigs of ram
-discrete video card
-If it's doable, hdmi output for widescreen hd-video and audio(surround at least, hd-audio hopefully)
-hd video, for the time being is almost exclusively downloaded stuff (hd TV shows, mkv files, that type of thing), I may end up using it for blu ray at some point
-I don't mind if the pc makes some noise, as long as the noise is masked by average volume audio when I am watching something or listening to music.
-I'd like to try and keep the power consumption low
-games: mainly emulated stuff, PS2/Xbox level stuff at the most
-total cost: hoping to keep it under $1400. Hope that gives a general idea.

All input is welcome
Any system in my ATX recommendations will be good for your purpose.:)

Hi.

First post, this board is a GREAT resource. I can only echo the thanks others have given on this thread.

Firstly, is there any difference as far as video processing goes between the Radeon 2xxx and 3xxx series cards? The only thing I can spot is that the 3xxx cards are likely to be less power hungry (I'm building a totally silent HTPC based around a mcubed box) all other things seem equal though. The HTPC will only be used for video decoding (up to full 1080p .mkvs) and processing (thinking of a sweetspot capture card and HTPC doing scaling and deinterlacing of SD content).

Secondly, do you have any idea which is the best 2 channel card for analogue sound? I have a high end hi-fi with no DAC so I want to output direct into the pre. with an analogue output. A capture channel would be good too. I've been looking at the M-Audio24/96, the Soundblaster Xfi Audio or perhaps the new Asus board (I know these are x.1 systems).

Thanks in advance

Secondly, do you have any idea which is the best 2 channel card for analogue sound? I have a high end hi-fi with no DAC so I want to output direct into the pre. with an analogue output. A capture channel would be good too. I've been looking at the M-Audio24/96, the Soundblaster Xfi Audio or perhaps the new Asus board (I know these are x.1 systems).

Thanks in advance
If you looking for high-end DAC, Lynx is considered among the best. You would also most likely get better sound by not using a pre. Connect direct to poweramps.
http://www.lynxstudio.com/index.asp

If you looking for high-end DAC, Lynx is considered among the best. You would also most likely get better sound by not using a pre. Connect direct to poweramps.
Hi. Thanks for that, but OUCH! I'm looking for something more in the consumer space. The card I'd use (Lynx L22) is £500 which is over half the budget for the HTPC (I live in the UK). I was thinking of spending ~£50 rather than 10x the amount :D

I don't want to change the sound system in any way, just feed it with a good quality 2-channel audio signal.

Could someone please take a shot at answering a question for me? I just assembled a HTPC using Windows Vista but it's all in anticipation of eventually using the Linux XBMC. I've got HDCP compliant equipment (LG GGC-H20L HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drive, Radeon HD 2600 Pro and Panasonic 50" TH50PX75U)

The HTPC is connected to the TV using a DVI to HDMI cable (there are only DVI outs on the video card and no DVI on TV) and everything works fine now...

But I've just read somewhere that when the HDCP flag is eventually enabled, the DVI to HMDI cables & adapters will not pass the flag.

Did I just spend a bunch of money of hardware that won't play future HD-DVD/Blu-ray releases with HDCP enabled?

Could someone please take a shot at answering a question for me? I just assembled a HTPC using Windows Vista but it's all in anticipation of eventually using the Linux XBMC. I've got HDCP compliant equipment (LG GGC-H20L HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drive, Radeon HD 2600 Pro and Panasonic 50" TH50PX75U)

The HTPC is connected to the TV using a DVI to HDMI cable (there are only DVI outs on the video card and no DVI on TV) and everything works fine now...

But I've just read somewhere that when the HDCP flag is eventually enabled, the DVI to HMDI cables & adapters will not pass the flag.

Did I just spend a bunch of money of hardware that won't play future HD-DVD/Blu-ray releases with HDCP enabled?

Two independent things. DVI can pass HDCP. If your card (and TV) is HDCP, it doesn't matter if it's DVI or HDMI.

Two independent things. DVI can pass HDCP. If your card (and TV) is HDCP, it doesn't matter if it's DVI or HDMI.

So the fact that it's being converted from one to the other makes no difference as the writer claimed?

Phew!

Does anyone have any recommendations for Shuttle HTPC parts? I'd be looking to use the LG combo drive in it (which I hear is somewhat long that could be a problem for the Shuttle cases). I'd probably get a video card (not sure which though). I'm mostly going to be using it for HD-DVD/Blueray movies, HD .mkv files, etc. I'm not much of a gamer, but I'd like to have the option if I choose to. I'd like to use the sound on the mobo. I sorta like the Shuttle SG33G5 case, but read mixed reviews on it. I'm fine going either Intel or AMD. Any suggestions would be most welcomed. :)

So the fact that it's being converted from one to the other makes no difference as the writer claimed?

Phew!
There is no conversion involved. Just different connectors, but with the same video.

So the fact that it's being converted from one to the other makes no difference as the writer claimed?

Phew!

There is no conversion. It's like putting an RCA connector on coax cable. It's just a different connector, but the same signal is being passed.

DVI is just a bigger connector. You'll likely lose audio when adapting from HDMI to DVI, but that's it. All video is passed untouched, including HDCP.

Never believe writers in the rags, they are like your parents, hearing parts of things and then getting confused.

(As a note - the only partial truth to this is that some very old TV's with DVI inputs only, don't support HDCP. However many TV's with DVI only *do* support HDCP, it's not an absolute. I think all HDMI TV's have to support HDCP, as it became part of the spec. And not all DVI graphics cards support HDCP, you need to make sure you get one that says it's HDCP compliant, no matter what connector it has.)

Firstly, is there any difference as far as video processing goes between the Radeon 2xxx and 3xxx series cards? The only thing I can spot is that the 3xxx cards are likely to be less power hungry (I'm building a totally silent HTPC based around a mcubed box) all other things seem equal though. The HTPC will only be used for video decoding (up to full 1080p .mkvs) and processing (thinking of a sweetspot capture card and HTPC doing scaling and deinterlacing of SD content).
Baiscally 3xxx is just a die shrink of 2xxx. HD 2600XT (Sapphire GDDR3 256MB) may be still the best bang for the buck ($75 AR).

M-AUDIO Audiophile 2496 is a good choice but does not support XP MCE or Vista. XiFi Audio should be avoided. XiFi Gamer is better. You should also consider Auzentech X-Fi Prelude.

Let me get this straight:

- E2180
- eVGA GeForce 7100/nForce 630i
- 8500GT

This combination would let me build a HTPC client which would play flawlessly HD/BD 1080p (where it is only used as a client PC) and at least Dolby Digital 5.1?
[if only for an HTPC client, why would anyone wait/want a more high powered graphics card?]

thanks, pps





Acidshort

GA-G33M-S2H is not worth considering for several reasons.

1. It's terribly overpriced ($130).
2. To play BD/HD DVD, you will need a very fast processor, say 3.0GHz. Even with that speed, there is no guarantee for smooth playback.
3. You will need DDR2-1066 to overclock E2180 to 3.0GHz with this board (though DDR2-1066 is not so pricey right now).

If you want to go with the Intel platform, "MicroATX System - Low-End II" is a much better choice. CPU can be E2180 with no problem. Video card can be eVGA GeForce 8500 GT 256-P2-N749-LR. Smooth playback of BD/HD DVD is guaranteed without overclocking.

- MB: eVGA GeForce 7100/nForce 630i (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007009), $55 AR
- Video: eVGA GeForce 8500 GT (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10007554), $45 AR
- Total: $100 AR

If you don't mind going with AMD, then AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 mb is recommended.

Let me get this straight:

- E2180
- eVGA GeForce 7100/nForce 630i
- 8500GT

This combination would let me build a HTPC client which would play flawlessly HD/BD 1080p (where it is only used as a client PC) and at least Dolby Digital 5.1?
[if only for an HTPC client, why would anyone wait/want a more high powered graphics card?]

thanks, pps
Yes. But note that the coaxial S/PDIF port is "in" only.

Will a Phenom 9500 be able to play back 1080p material with post-processing, and upscale DVDs?

Will a Phenom 9500 be able to play back 1080p material with post-processing, and upscale DVDs?
Yes, it has enough horse power to do that.

Thanks

If I have a 7600gt and a fast enough CPU to do software decoding, will the benefits I receive from postprocessing with purevideo on SD and HD material be up to par with the latest generation of purevideo post processing? Mostly what I'm getting at here is picture quality.

Baiscally 3xxx is just a die shrink of 2xxx. HD 2600XT (Sapphire GDDR3 256MB) may be still the best bang for the buck ($75 AR).

M-AUDIO Audiophile 2496 is a good choice but does not support XP MCE or Vista. XiFi Audio should be avoided. XiFi Gamer is better. You should also consider Auzentech X-Fi Prelude.Thanks - confirmed what I thought the 3xxx series was - just a die shrink. The 2600XT was (and now still is) at the top of my shortlist.

M-AUDIO 2496 got Vista support back in December (see M-AUDIO website - would post the link - see next post). May decide on Linux XBMC, so that's another thing to look into support for. Thanks for the tip on the X-fi and Auzentech cards.

M-AUDIO 2496 got Vista support back in December (see M-AUDIO website - would post the link - see next post). Link is (for reference):
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=2b9102ba8e228823582720fb3beba029

For a machine that will not be used for gaming, is there any benefit of going for the XT version vs the PRO version? Can't see any differences other than better RAM support (which I guess is useless for HD). Also, what about the Sapphire HD 3650 - lower power consumption for same processing?

Prices for
2600PRO : £45
2600XT : £60
3650 : £50

If I have a 7600gt and a fast enough CPU to do software decoding, will the benefits I receive from postprocessing with purevideo on SD and HD material be up to par with the latest generation of purevideo post processing? Mostly what I'm getting at here is picture quality.
7600 GT is good for SD (near perfect HQV score). However as you can see in Report: Which graphic cards are best suited for HD video? (http://www.behardware.com/articles/690-7/report-which-graphic-cards-are-best-suited-for-hd-video.html), 7600 GT is not good at several HD HQV tests. Detailed meaning of Test 1-5 is explained here (http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2923&p=2). Of course HD HQV scores should be taken only as a reference. But in pure software decode mode, post-processing is also done in software mode so that post-processing depends entirely on CPU and filters afaik.

For a machine that will not be used for gaming, is there any benefit of going for the XT version vs the PRO version? Can't see any differences other than better RAM support (which I guess is useless for HD). Also, what about the Sapphire HD 3650 - lower power consumption for same processing?

Prices for
2600PRO : £45
2600XT : £60
3650 : £50
Yes, HD 2600 Pro is enough. The only benifit of choosing HD 2600 XT is that it (usually) comes with a DVI-HDMI adapter which is capable of carring HDMI audio. If you don't need it, 2600PRO is the best choice among three based on the above price list.

I came to think about PCI and PCIe. Seems like the future is PCIe. If a buy two LynxTwoB audio cards (PCI cards) today and want to upgrade the HTPC in let's say 3-5 years. Is there a chance I wan't be able to find a motherboard with PCI slots then and not able to use the Lynx cards?

I came to think about PCI and PCIe. Seems like the future is PCIe. If a buy two LynxTwoB audio cards (PCI cards) today and want to upgrade the HTPC in let's say 3-5 years. Is there a chance I wan't be able to find a motherboard with PCI slots then and not able to use the Lynx cards?
I can't guarantee, but perhaps there will be still many (old) PCI peripherals there in 5 years later and hence you should be able to find mbs with PCI slots.

7600 GT is good for SD (near perfect HQV score). However as you can see in Report: Which graphic cards are best suited for HD video? (http://www.behardware.com/articles/690-7/report-which-graphic-cards-are-best-suited-for-hd-video.html), 7600 GT is not good at several HD HQV tests. Detailed meaning of Test 1-5 is explained here (http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2923&p=2). Of course HD HQV scores should be taken only as a reference. But in pure software decode mode, post-processing is also done in software mode so that post-processing depends entirely on CPU and filters afaik.

These detailed tests seem to say that "most" of the current crop of dedicated video cards/drivers are terrible ... SO, what is the solution and WHEN ?

24 HDD System

The third system consists of a main system with 12 storage drives in either a mid tower or 4U rackmount case and an external enclosure with 12 storage drives in another case. Port multiplier (PM) is used to support storage drives. The intended OS is Windows Home Server.

4U Rackmount Case: CODEGEN 4U-500-CA 4U Rackmount Chassis (3 x 5.25" bay, 8 x 3.5" bay, 2 x 3.5" bay under the cross bar), $71 with:
HDD Mounting Kit x 2, $3 or Lian Li EX-34B Internal HDD Kit (turns 3 x 5.25" bay into 4 x 3.5" bay) for better cooling, $35.
PSU: Sparkle ATX-400PN 400W, $31.
HBA: HighPoint RocketRAID 2314 4-port eSATA RAID Controller PCIe x4 Card supporting Port Multiplier, $165.
KINGWIN ESAC-02 Internal SATA to eSATA 2-Port PCI Bracket x 2, $6.
Addonics AD5SAPM 5X1 Internal SATA Port Multiplier (1 x SATA in, 5 x SATA out) x 2, $170.
SATA cable x 11, $22.
Total Cost: $677 for Tower; $666 for Rackmount.

Enclosure

Mid Tower Case: Rosewill R6A34-BK ATX Mid Tower (4 x external 5.25", 2 x external 3.5", 5 x internal 3.5"), $45 with:
Lian Li EX-23B Internal HDD Kit (turns 2 x 5.25" bay into 3 x 3.5" bay) x 2, $40.
or
4U Rackmount Case: CODEGEN 4U-500-CA 4U Rackmount Chassis (3 x 5.25" bay, 8 x 3.5" bay, 2 x 3.5" bay under the cross bar), $71 with:
HDD Mounting Kit x 2, $3 or Lian Li EX-34B Internal HDD Kit (turns 3 x 5.25" bay into 4 x 3.5" bay) for better cooling, $35.
PSU: Sparkle ATX-350PN 350W, $24.
KINGWIN ESAC-02 Internal SATA to eSATA 2-Port PCI Bracket x 2, $6.
5X1 Internal SATA Port Multiplier (1 x SATA in, 5 x SATA out) x 2, $170.
SATA Cable x 10, $20.
KINGWIN ESAC-01 eSATA to eSATA 3' Cable x 2, $6.
Total Cost: $311 for Tower; $300 for Rackmount

Cost of the Total System

$988 for Tower; $966 for Rackmount (storage drives are not included)

Each of the four eSATA ports of the host bus adapter (HBA) is connected to a port multiplier (PM) that supports 5 SATA drives. On the other hand, the southbridge (SB) of the motherboard chipset supports 4 SATA ports. Each subsystem includes 2 port multipliers. Among 12 storage drives in each of the subsystems, 10 drives are connected to the two port multipliers and the rest 2 drives are connected to the southbridge.

2) The motherboard requirements are:

IGP
Gb LAN (preferably PCI Express)
1 x PATA or 1 x SATA port for the system drive
4 x SATA port for 4 storage drives
1 x PCIe x4 slot for a 4-port eSATA PM-aware host controller
Basically any mid-range motherboard with integrated graphics can be used for this system

I love this.

but n00b question : the home media server is only a server or everyday pc ?

thinking of this but with a dual opteron with raptor or SCSI in raid 10 + 4 Rackmount for drives.

oh, by the way : Hy :)

Hi guys...first post here, but I've done a lot of reading over the past couple of days. I'm building a HTPC, and have pieced together something based one recommendations from friends and co-workers, and information on here. Here's what I got so far. I'm a little over budget, so any advice on what I could swap out would be appreciated. Thanks!

(links coming in fourth post)

one more! hopefully i'm not a spammer

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131227
ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127329
MSI NX8800GT 512M OC GeForce 8800GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136133
LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GGC-H20L - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148230
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3160815AS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400 - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815129005
VisionTek TV Wonder HD 600 900188 PCI Interface - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002
OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880125001
eDATA DEC-200B Vista Certified Infrared Remote Control W/ Receiver & Blaster

Thanks again! (if it's not kosher to dive in like this, I'll just go back to reading)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131227
ASUS MAXIMUS FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127329
MSI NX8800GT 512M OC GeForce 8800GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115028
Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 Conroe 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6850 - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136133
LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GGC-H20L - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148230
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3160815AS 160GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148288
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145590
CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400 - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815129005
VisionTek TV Wonder HD 600 900188 PCI Interface - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341002
OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129021
Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880125001
eDATA DEC-200B Vista Certified Infrared Remote Control W/ Receiver & Blaster

Thanks again! (if it's not kosher to dive in like this, I'll just go back to reading)

That's a reallly noisy gaming machine, not a HTPC. Technically the specs are fine for a HTPC (way too high, IMO), but the noise and heat alone would be a killer for a HT.

Not sure what your goals are (or why you had to post 4 times).

First off, I'd say dump the Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 and either get a E8400 or if you really want to spend that much get the Q6600 instead.

Although I believe the later, would require a different motherboard since it's a 1066MHz FSB processor.

That's a reallly noisy gaming machine, not a HTPC. Technically the specs are fine for a HTPC (way too high, IMO), but the noise and heat alone would be a killer for a HT.

Not sure what your goals are (or why you had to post 4 times).
Great, thanks. So something more like a 2600 for a video card?

My goals are just for video playback. I don't do any gaming. Which is why I figured I should come here asking for opinions instead of trusting some of my friends who are gamers.

I got a message saying that I had to have at least three posts before posting links.

These detailed tests seem to say that "most" of the current crop of dedicated video cards/drivers are terrible ... SO, what is the solution and WHEN ?
Well, Test 1 measures noise reduction and Test 2-5 measures deinterlacing capability. Both are mostly irrelevant to BD / HD DVD movie playback (1080i BD / HD DVD movies exists but are rare). Moreover somebody argues that HD HQV is encoded in VC-1, so not good for measuring 1080i H.264 or 1080i MPEG-2 (HDTV) (I am not sure of this point). Thus HD HQV is more or less pointless. :)

I love this.

but n00b question : the home media server is only a server or everyday pc ?
You can use it as an everyday PC. Buy some drivers/programs may not run on Windows Server OS.

Great, thanks. So something more like a 2600 for a video card?

My goals are just for video playback. I don't do any gaming. Which is why I figured I should come here asking for opinions instead of trusting some of my friends who are gamers.

I got a message saying that I had to have at least three posts before posting links.

Everything looks too high and/or loud - the MB, the CPU, the graphics, the memory, the power supply, the hard drives (unless this will be the machine you rip everything to).

One of the main goals, usually, of a HTPC is to keep it small and quiet. There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread, search back a little bit.

My goals are just for video playback. I don't do any gaming.
Then you are wasting a huge amount of money. :) Right now the most economical and efficient HTPC system would be:

- Athlon 64 X2 2.3GHz-2.6GHz, ~$100
- AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 chipset motherboard (expected in March), ~$80

The onboard video is just enough for every HD content. Other comments are:

- You don't need two HDDs, one for OS, the other for data. Just create two partitions in one 500GB drive (say 50GB for OS and the rest for data).
- 700W PSU is overkill. 350W-450W is enough. Look at this GeForce 8200 system (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=990188#Power). It consumes only 60W when playing back BD.

If you prefer ATX, look at my ATX recommendations (the low-end is good enough). ASUS Maxiums Formula or any other X38 motherboard is overkill. A decent P35 motherboard is enough.

Well I finished my build today.Here is what it looks like completed.The case is very tight with a ton of wires.I will probably order some shorter SATA cables to help with wire management.My only complaint so far is the fit of the DVD drive.I figured it would be a flush fit but no.I either have to mount it behind the cases face but I don't like it.So I tried to take off face plate of drive and that option left a huge gap showing the gray chasis around opening.I have included pics below of the hardware installed.Next to start overclocking a bit and figuring out how to make everything work :)

Case from the front
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/723/219htpcbuild012zt6.jpg

Here is the case from the back
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/2555/219htpcbuild025ul7.jpg

Here is an overview of case with her top off :D
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/9728/219htpcbuild011zx6.jpg

4-750GB WD HDD
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/149/219htpcbuild022mx6.jpg

Here is the cards- 2x HVR-1600,Benspirer audio, EVGA 8600GTS
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8431/219htpcbuild010vq2.jpg

1) What's the sound card?
2) What's the butterfly looking fanless cooler on the CPU?

1) What's the sound card?
2) What's the butterfly looking fanless cooler on the CPU?
I am not him, but look at this post.

1) What's the sound card?
2) What's the butterfly looking fanless cooler on the CPU?

1-Zerotherm BTF90-It does have a fan on the other side with red led :rolleyes:
2- bluegears b-Enspirer 7.1 Channels 24-bit 192KHz

Right now the most economical and efficient HTPC system would be:

- Athlon 64 X2 2.3GHz-2.6GHz, ~$100
- AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 chipset motherboard (expected in March), ~$80

The onboard video is just enough for every HD content.

I notice these recommendations come up quite often. I want to build a HTPC and have always used Intel in the past but don't care which way I go for this system.

Will the above recommendation be sufficient for the 1080p x264 MKV file playback? I'd like to have everything stored on a central file server and stream media via gigabit lan to minimise noise and heat in the HTPC as much as possible but if playback of these files needs to be on the local machine so be it.

I'd also like to add a BD drive and DTV card but my understanding is that the highest resource drain on the system is the 1080p MKVs, so everything else is relatively easy?

Low cost is good, but I don't mind spending more than the above as long as I have HDMI output, 5.1 and a capable system. Does the recommendation still stand? What about an equivalent Intel system if I can't wait until the new nvidia boards in ~April?

Oh and your guide is fantastic, thanks for your help. Thought I'd add a suggestion given that you update it so often. Maybe put the date of the last update for each chapter in the contents table at the start?

Will the above recommendation be sufficient for the 1080p x264 MKV file playback? I'd like to have everything stored on a central file server and stream media via gigabit lan to minimise noise and heat in the HTPC as much as possible but if playback of these files needs to be on the local machine so be it.

I'd also like to add a BD drive and DTV card but my understanding is that the highest resource drain on the system is the 1080p MKVs, so everything else is relatively easy?

Low cost is good, but I don't mind spending more than the above as long as I have HDMI output, 5.1 and a capable system. Does the recommendation still stand? What about an equivalent Intel system if I can't wait until the new nvidia boards in ~April?
The system @2.3GHz should be fine for BD, HDTV, and most 1080p x264 mkv files. You may need to overclock the CPU for some x264 files. Streaming is no problem.

Athlon 64 X2 processor + AMD 780G/GeForce 8200 mb is the cheapest solution for HD HTPC. There will be no equivalent Intel solution until the release of NVIDIA MCP7A and Intel G45 chipset. If you add a discrete video card, there are plenty of options in both AMD and Intel platforms, of course (please look at my recommendations in the guide).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136133
LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GGC-H20L - Retail I'd agree with otehrs suggestions and add that you could dump the dual format drive for a BluRay only drive such as:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129015

Only saves a bit, but you were saying you were over budget ;)

(in case you didn't know: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7252506.stm)

If you add a discrete video card, there are plenty of options in both AMD and Intel platforms, of course (please look at my recommendations in the guide).

This is where I think I'm getting confused. Wasn't sure if a discrete video card would help with 1080p mkv or if it was pure CPU power required.

If a discrete video system will be the better option, I'll just build a system based on your microATX mid-range specs.

This is where I think I'm getting confused. Wasn't sure if a discrete video card would help with 1080p mkv or if it was pure CPU power required.

If a discrete video system will be the better option, I'll just build a system based on your microATX mid-range specs.Video card won't help with 1080p .mkv. HOWEVER, what it does add is all the post processing so playing anything can be post processed by the video card (deinterlace, denoise, scaling). Given there is still a LOT of non 1080p content (.avi, DVD, 720p), this may be the better route for you (and is the one I'm taking!!).

Hope these arent redundant questions.

I already own 9 X 500GB HD and Im looking to combine them all into a media server to be stashed away.

Couple of questions. I think Im going with the Coolermaster Case and then adding a few of the 4X3 adapters. That will give me 12 drives plus room for a DVD+RW so a little room for expansion. The first post says to use a ASUS P5B-VM DO motherboard but I see Newegg has discontinued it.

My goal here is to be as cheap as possible. What is a good alternative to that motherboard that people use now?

Also regarding Windows Home Server. No one seems to factor the OS cost in but it looks to be around $150 or so. Is there a good free Linux option instead?

Which leads me to the final question. Of these 9 drives I have, roughly 6 of them are slap full already. What is the preferred RAID option. I want to try and avoid having to shuffle around data while building an array (may not be possible). Im gambling on the idea that only 1 drive will fail at any given time so I was leaning toward raid 5, however it would be nice to be able to just add another drive in easily when I want to expand. What are my choices (it will need to be software RAID). Im looking to stay under a few hundred $$ for everything. (edit: Answering my own question, it looks like if $$ is a concern, WHS is the way to go for flexibility with a little reliability.)

I'm interested in the mobo selection for a server as well since the ASUS P5B-VM DO is discontinued.

Hope these arent redundant questions.

I already own 9 X 500GB HD and Im looking to combine them all into a media server to be stashed away.

Couple of questions. I think Im going with the Coolermaster Case and then adding a few of the 4X3 adapters. That will give me 12 drives plus room for a DVD+RW so a little room for expansion. The first post says to use a ASUS P5B-VM DO motherboard but I see Newegg has discontinued it.

My goal here is to be as cheap as possible. What is a good alternative to that motherboard that people use now?

Also regarding Windows Home Server. No one seems to factor the OS cost in but it looks to be around $150 or so. Is there a good free Linux option instead?

Which leads me to the final question. Of these 9 drives I have, roughly 6 of them are slap full already. What is the preferred RAID option. I want to try and avoid having to shuffle around data while building an array (may not be possible). Im gambling on the idea that only 1 drive will fail at any given time so I was leaning toward raid 5, however it would be nice to be able to just add another drive in easily when I want to expand. What are my choices (it will need to be software RAID). Im looking to stay under a few hundred $$ for everything. (edit: Answering my own question, it looks like if $$ is a concern, WHS is the way to go for flexibility with a little reliability.)

Many here use UnRaid (http://www.lime-technology.com) which is free for up to 3 drives, whereas the licensed version supports up to 16 drives. The beauty of it is it boots off a USB key so you don't need to dedicate any of your storage to the OS. It also supports different sized drives, IDE / SATA, will spin down unused drives, and the RAID implementation allows for adding new drives on the fly. What I don't know is if there's anyway to add your current drives will retaining the data - but perhaps their site can answer that for you.

Then you are wasting a huge amount of money. :) Right now the most economical and efficient HTPC system would be:

- Athlon 64 X2 2.3GHz-2.6GHz, ~$100
- AMD 780G or GeForce 8200 chipset motherboard (expected in March), ~$80

The onboard video is just enough for every HD content.

Is the BE-2400 out yet? Would the BE-2350 be a worthy replacement (reduced power and heat)?

"Supports" means "playable", but does not guarantee smooth playback. In fact because of the total lack of hardware acceleration for H.264, you need a very powerful processor. Try to overclock the processor to 3.0-3.2GHz.

ATI Radeon HD 3450/3470/2600 Pro/2600 XT/3650, GeForce 8500 GT.


Does this mean that in order to playback BD and HD DVD on an optical drive the CPU needs to be at least 3.0 GHz

Does this mean that in order to playback BD and HD DVD on an optical drive the CPU needs to be at least 3.0 GHz

No, not at all true. I have a 2.4 C2D doing this just fine, with no more than 25% or so on either core being utilized.

I also have a 2.6 and a 3.0 C2D with similar results. The processor doesn't make much of a difference after a certain point, if you have a graphics card capable of acceleration and supported by PDVD.

Here's what I just bought but haven't built yet:

1. Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L ATX LGA775 P35 1333FSB 1PCI-E16 3PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 Sound GBLAN Motherboard

2. Intel Pentium Dual Core E2160 Dual Core Processor LGA775 1.8GHZ 800FSB 1MB

3. Corsair XMS2 TWIN2X2048-6400 2GB 2X1GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800 CL 5-5-5-18 240PIN DIMM Dual Channel Memory

4. Palit Radeon 2600XT Sonic 800MHZ 256MB 1.4GHZ GDDR3 PCI-E VGA DVI-I HDMI Video Card

5. Western Digital SE16 500GB SATA2 7200RPM 16MB Cache 8.9MS NCQ Hard Drive

6. Antec Earthwatts 500W Power Supply ATX12V V2.0 Active PFC 80-PLUS 80MM Fan

I'll probably OC the CPU to 2.5-3.0 GHZ and I already have a 500 GB hard drive so that gives me 1 TB of storage to start with. I plan on doing a little bit of mid-range gaming which is why I went with the discrete video. I hope to throw some sort of BD-ROM into it once prices are right as I basically want to mainly use it as a media PC.

I'm throwing this into an existing tower case since it isn't going into my entertainment centre.

I'll be running this on XP for now with some sort of front end but I do plan on getting Vista Premium MCE on this someday.

Let's just say I'll be lurking here quite often.

What kind of hardware am I going to need in my HTPC in order to play DVDs that are ripped to a network (wired or wireless I am not sure yet) media server? I want to back up all of my DVDs and be able to play them OnDemad, without loss of quality or menus and extras. What hardware will allow me to do this Flawlessly? I am thinking C2D 2.6GHz or above as well as 4GB of RAM. Any thoughts?

Thanks guys.

What kind of hardware am I going to need in my HTPC in order to play DVDs that are ripped to a network (wired or wireless I am not sure yet) media server? I want to back up all of my DVDs and be able to play them OnDemad, without loss of quality or menus and extras. What hardware will allow me to do this Flawlessly? I am thinking C2D 2.6GHz or above as well as 4GB of RAM. Any thoughts?

Thanks guys.

Regular DVD's take very little processing power. Any currently purchasable CPU will do fine.

You can use it as an everyday PC. Buy some drivers/programs may not run on Windows Server OS.

k, i have a good PC now with x2 4000 EE on asus 690G, 2 GB ram, ATI HD 2400 and 320 GB, will convert it to the server!

i have 1 pci-e 16x and one 1x, probably a new MB but i'll save on money here.

dont need a small case, its going in my room. just have to add 5-10 TB.

I wanted a dual quad opteron and a 3780x2 for rendering + the storage but i'll just use the old PC for the home media server.

renethx 10q dude.

k, i have a good PC now with x2 4000 EE on asus 690G, 2 GB ram, ATI HD 2400 and 320 GB, will convert it to the server!

i have 1 pci-e 16x and one 1x, probably a new MB but i'll save on money here.

dont need a small case, its going in my room. just have to add 5-10 TB.

I wanted a dual quad opteron and a 3780x2 for rendering + the storage but i'll just use the old PC for the home media server.

renethx 10q dude.

If you mean Windows Home Server, it's designed to be "headless". That is, it's designed basically to not have a monitor attached.

I haven't seen an OEM build yet, but I wouldn't count on using it as a regular PC. You pretty much have to put it in a closet and forget about it.

If you mean regular Windows Server, then you can use it as a PC, but drivers will be an issue for things like games and video playback.

Regular DVD's take very little processing power. Any currently purchasable CPU will do fine.

I am going to be playing HD and BLU RAY but not ripping them for storage reason. Is the CPU the only piece of hardware I should be concerned about? I know Iam going get get and EVGA 8600GTS (or maybe 8800GTS). What about so that the content streams smoothly over networked media server?

I am going to be playing HD and BLU RAY but not ripping them for storage reason. Is the CPU the only piece of hardware I should be concerned about? I know Iam going get get and EVGA 8600GTS (or maybe 8800GTS). What about so that the content streams smoothly over networked media server?

CPU matters some for HD playback, but even a 2.4 C2D will be fine. Graphics card matters some, but what you list above is more than adequate.

In your case, most important is your network speed and the speed of your file server storage array. If you mean BD/HDDVD streaming.

If you just mean you're streaming regular DVD's, then you could almost do that over wireless B, so I wouldn't worry about too much there.

If you mean Windows Home Server, it's designed to be "headless". That is, it's designed basically to not have a monitor attached.

I haven't seen an OEM build yet, but I wouldn't count on using it as a regular PC. You pretty much have to put it in a closet and forget about it.

If you mean regular Windows Server, then you can use it as a PC, but drivers will be an issue for things like games and video playback.

hmm, i think regular Windows Server, i want to use extra storage for net hosting. so i need a monitor :)

now the problem of $$$, plan set, when i buy the new pc & tv will put in action.

for now bookmark, more question after i buy the hardware.

Acidshort

OK, another factor came in: gaming.

A few possible combinations are:

- E2180, $50 AR
- eVGA 7100, $55 AR
- GeForce 9600 GT (Feb 21), ~$170



Renethx,

I had a question about the RAID 5 controller on the eVGA 7100 mobo. Is there a noticeable performance decrease in the system when running in RAID 5, or does the board have dedicated processing for this? I am picking up 3x Samsung Spinpoint HD501LJ's 500Gb each and wanted to make sure that I was not over-estimating the capabilities of the controller. Thank you again for all your advice.

Renethx,

I had a question about the RAID 5 controller on the eVGA 7100 mobo. Is there a noticeable performance decrease in the system when running in RAID 5, or does the board have dedicated processing for this? I am picking up 3x Samsung Spinpoint HD501LJ's 500Gb each and wanted to make sure that I was not over-estimating the capabilities of the controller. Thank you again for all your advice.

I would never use the MB RAID controllers. They generally stink. And they rarely support expanding the RAID array, or hot-spares, or changing the RAID type, etc.

If you really want RAID, spend ~$200 and get a Highpoint or Promise card (I personally like the HP 2220 series).

I already own 9 X 500GB HD and Im looking to combine them all into a media server to be stashed away.

Couple of questions. I think Im going with the Coolermaster Case and then adding a few of the 4X3 adapters. That will give me 12 drives plus room for a DVD+RW so a little room for expansion. The first post says to use a ASUS P5B-VM DO motherboard but I see Newegg has discontinued it.

My goal here is to be as cheap as possible. What is a good alternative to that motherboard that people use now?

Also regarding Windows Home Server. No one seems to factor the OS cost in but it looks to be around $150 or so. Is there a good free Linux option instead?

Which leads me to the final question. Of these 9 drives I have, roughly 6 of them are slap full already. What is the preferred RAID option. I want to try and avoid having to shuffle around data while building an array (may not be possible). Im gambling on the idea that only 1 drive will fail at any given time so I was leaning toward raid 5, however it would be nice to be able to just add another drive in easily when I want to expand. What are my choices (it will need to be software RAID). Im looking to stay under a few hundred $$ for everything. (edit: Answering my own question, it looks like if $$ is a concern, WHS is the way to go for flexibility with a little reliability.)
If 12 HDD is enough, then you can use any mb with 4 SATA ports and 2 PCI slots (4 + 2 x 4 = 12). For 16 HDD, use a motherboard with 4 SATA ports and 3 PCI slots (4 + 3 x 4 = 16) such as

- ASUS P5K-V
- Intel DG965RY (BOXDG965RYCK)
- Intel DG33BF (BOXDG33FBC) or
- MSI K9AG Neo2-Digital (the cheapest)

Ubuntu or openSUSE? unRAID is another choice. But first you must back up your data to set up (un)RAID. Here is an opinion of a person who was a beta tester of Vista, Windows Server 2008 and WHS. Home Media Server - Storage option discussion is an interesting thread to get information. Personally I like the kiss principle.