Guide to Building a HD HTPC [Text View] - Page 6

Mascot

02-21-08, 05:04 AM

Renethx: Give me your opinions on my final setup. I'm only waiting for the motherboard now, confirmed delivery in the end of this month from germany.

1 st Corsair XMS2 Xtreme TwinX DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2x1GB
1 st OrigenAE MCE Remote Controller
1 st Antec Fusion Black 430
1 st Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H Motherboard
1 st AMD Athlon BE-2400 (2,3GHz) CPU
2 st Technotrend S2-3200 DVB-S2 TV-cards
1 st LG GGW-H20L combodrive
1 st Scythe Ninja Mini (won't use the included fan)
2 st Noctua NF-S12-800 120mm fans
1 st Samsung SpinPoint T166 HD252KJ 16MB 250GB System HDD
1 st USB Phoenix reader - for decoding TV-channels from paytv card and use cardshare to decode on both TV-tuners at the same time. Recording/viewing or PIP/PAP.
1 st Silverstone Nightjar ST30NF 300W

Getting the main stuff first time, then will silent it down with nightjar, noctuas and scythe mini ninja later on if needed. Picked the 250 gb Samsung HDD simply because I have a 4 TB server put away for storage and it seemed a good value, might switch to 2,5 inch for more silence.

Planning on Win XP with Mediaportal and TVEngine3 together with Slysofts AnyDVD HD and Cyberlink Power DVD Ultra (now works inside Mediaportal according to mediaportal forum posts..)

Any other recommendations?

renethx

02-21-08, 08:15 AM

Mascot

Looks nice. :)

rockytt

02-21-08, 11:05 AM

BTDT

02-21-08, 11:27 AM

I just ordered an ASUS 8600GT passively-cooled graphics card. I built an HTPC with the PNY card recommended for the "mid-range mini-ATX system" but finally decided last evening that the fan on the card is just a bit too loud for my living room environment. My wife has mentioned it a few times, which is a bit of a clue....

The good news is that I can still return the PNY card!

So, do I need to fully wipe the NVidia software and drivers from the HTPC before installing the new card or can it just be dropped in? I am assuming the former at this point.

BrundleFly

02-21-08, 11:41 AM

Ok so I have a Scientific Atlantic HD DVR 8300 how do I watch TV on this as well as use my HTPC to record shows? What is needed? I know this is a broad question but my knowledge of this stuff is just as broad.

AbMagFab

02-21-08, 12:14 PM

Sorry if this has been covered before (man, I HATE it when somebody starts a post like that :))
NVIDIA 6600, XP PRO, P4 3.4 -
VERY different results with BD movies (that I own) ripped to HD. On some of them playback is flawless with CPU utilization around 20%. On other movies, it pegs at 100% and the movie is completely unwatchable. Different encoding on the discs causing this? Do I just need a newer/better video card?

The video card it too low (usually 7600 or better is recommended), and the CPU is probably too low (C2D 2.4 or better is pretty cheap now, not sure what older chips would be the low end).

scientest

02-21-08, 12:18 PM

I would never use the MB RAID controllers. They generally stink. And they rarely support expanding the RAID array, or hot-spares, or changing the RAID type, etc.

Now-a-days that seems waaay to broad of generalization. For example, on one of my machines I run a Gigabyte GA-M61P-S3 motherboard with the Nvidia on board Nforce RAID controller. It supports automatic expansion of the array, conversion from mirrored to striped, hot spares and everything else I've needed it to do. Though I have not yet found the time to run SiSoft Sandra benchmarks the Vista performance rating is 5.2 without any tweaking.

AbMagFab

02-21-08, 12:27 PM

Now-a-days that seems waaay to broad of generalization. For example, on one of my machines I run a Gigabyte GA-M61P-S3 motherboard with the Nvidia on board Nforce RAID controller. It supports automatic expansion of the array, conversion from mirrored to striped, hot spares and everything else I've needed it to do. Though I have not yet found the time to run SiSoft Sandra benchmarks the Vista performance rating is 5.2 without any tweaking.

A) I said Rarely (not Never), you're quoting one board. Most use the same chipset/drivers and they stink.

B) According the spec on that board, it doesn't support everything you say, and it's software RAID, which also stinks (IMO), is slow (although not a huge deal on a dedicated server with enough horsepower), and is less reliable (for obvious reasons).

scientest

02-21-08, 12:42 PM

A) I said Rarely (not Never), you're quoting one board. Most use the same chipset/drivers and they stink.

B) According the spec on that board, it doesn't support everything you say, and it's software RAID, which also stinks (IMO), is slow (although not a huge deal on a dedicated server with enough horsepower), and is less reliable (for obvious reasons).

Do you have any actual experience with this chipset?

A) the nForce chipset is supported by drivers and software from nVidia with the same feature set no matter what mother board you drop it in.

B) Don't know where you're looking at the "feature" set , but the RAID is hardware with all the features I listed. I have seen some places incorrectly listing it as software RAID, they are wrong...

Edit: and yes, you said "Never"....

jkuhn

02-21-08, 01:03 PM

I just recently started messing with MKV and H.264 files in 720p and 1080p as my LCD TV is headed this way in the mail. On my current setup I can't even manage a 720p file without bogging the processor to 100% (seems obvious after reading this forum). Considering that I bought the motherboard and CPU off of craigslist about 2 years ago, I figured it was time to build a real computer system to use as an HTPC.

*My current setup*
Processor - P4 2GHZ
Video Card - NVIDA Quadro4 700 XGL
Motherboard - KR7A Raid
RAM - 1GB
Capture Card - hauppauge 1600
Case - ANTEC Sonata ATX w. 430W power supply

*Proposed upgrades (or re-vamp)*
--Based on RENETX's and others suggestions throughout the form --
Processor - Pentium Dual-Core E2200 2.2GHz, $94
Video card - Radeon HD 3450, $50
Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L, $67
RAM - 2GB Crucial DDR2 RAM $50
DVI - HDMI cable $15
Total $275

$275 seems like a great price to upgrade to a system that can (from what I am reading on the forum) manage up to mkv at 1080p.

Just wanted to ask some questions along those lines...

Playback - does anyone have a similar setup. Is everything clear when playing back the H264 or mkv at 1080p.

Video card - the 3650 was suggested in the original guide. Will the system suffer with the 3450 at half of the price?

Processor - I could spend twice the money and get an E6550. Would I see any different in video playback with a faster chip? Does L2 cache or any of that jazz even matter for this application.

Motherboard - any reason to go for a more expensive motherboard aside from RAID.

And finally, I can't wait to let everyone know how my system performs when I build it and hook it up to my new Tv. Perhaps it is obvious to some that such a proposed system will work well. Just want to make sure I don't see any of this CPU working at 100% nonsense anymore. So much for craigslist parts.. this forum has been really fun to read.

Thank you everyone in advance for any help,
I'm off to the FedEx building to get my tv.

zangmann

02-21-08, 01:56 PM

I could be wrong, but onboard video with that processor should be enough to decode 720/1080p mkv files. My OC'd E4300 has no problem playing them with the latest coreAVC.

rockytt

02-21-08, 02:18 PM

The video card it too low (usually 7600 or better is recommended), and the CPU is probably too low (C2D 2.4 or better is pretty cheap now, not sure what older chips would be the low end).

Thanks for the reply - I've got a 2600HD coming for another machine in the house that I'll audition-
Funny how some BD's play fine (25% utilization) and others jump right to 95% and hog the system-different video encoding perhaps?

BenSanford

02-21-08, 02:42 PM

Ehgeahrev

02-21-08, 04:09 PM

BrundleFly

02-21-08, 05:35 PM

Hey Everyone,

So here is my set up please please please give me your feedback. Also, I know I have Tuner Card but that is because I want to keep the HD DVR I have for Time Warner, if anyone knows how I can integrate that so I can view and record through Media Center that would be great. I really appreciate any feedback as this is my first build. One thing I am concerned about is my PSU being too loud and also have too many Watts.

SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum front panel, 0.8 mm SECC body SST-LC17-B ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard

EVGA 512-P2-N773-AR GeForce 8600GTS 512MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

Antec True Power Trio TP3-650 ATX12V 650W Power Supply with Three 12V Rails -

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400

2 x Crucial Ballistix 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT12864AA804

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model GGC-H20L

Microsoft Windows Vista 64-Bit Home Premium for System Builders Single Pack DVD - OEM

ZALMAN VF700-CU 2 Ball VGA COOLER - Retail

renethx

02-21-08, 07:20 PM

BrundleFly

02-21-08, 07:52 PM

Hey renethx thanks so much for this great guide. Any thoughts on the system I listed two posts above this? Thanks again.

renethx

02-21-08, 09:41 PM

BrundleFly

Your selection looks fine. Integrating HD DVR is perhaps limited. Connect HD DVR to a capture card (TV tuner card) via composite video and you can record programs or play recorded programs in HTPC in standard definition. Hauppauge and a few other manufacturers are planning "HD PVR" that allows you to record programs in HD (H.264) via component video from STB (expected in Q2 2008).

renethx

02-21-08, 10:12 PM

jkuhn

E2200 is enough for most HD contents (E2220 2.4GHz $84 comes on March 2nd, that is even better). You may need to overclock it slightly (up to 2.66GHz), but it's easy (ask me if you have no idea how to overclock it). User experience with HD 3450 is mixed. HD 2600 XT (Sapphire 256MB, $75 AR) may be a safer and better choice. GA-G31M-S2L is good, but you will need to build your own coaxial S/PDIF bracket (see my previous thread) for 5.1DD/DTS. Yeah, GA-P35-DS3L is a better (and pricier) choice if your case accepts ATX.

renethx

02-21-08, 10:27 PM

Several versions of the new GeForce 9600 GT have been released and are available in the ~$179 price range. The review I found at one site goes into extensive depth about its performance for various games, but doesn't mention much on HTPC usage.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/21/nvidia_geforce_9600_gt/

Is there any real advantage/disadvantages to this card for HTPC over other choices available today - or is the performance only applicable to games?
Basically it's the replacement of GeForce 8600 GTS. The number of shader units (4) doubles that of 8600 (2). That will be good for Digital Image Enhancements. Dual Stream Decode allows two independent HD decoding (for PIP). But these features will be available for other mid-range to high-end cards with the upcoming ForceWare drivers. The feature not found in the previous models is HybridPower (but it's not useful for a pure HTPC system and requires the latest NVIDIA chipset mb such as 8200 or 750a/780a SLI).

BTW HA for VC-1 is not supported (http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0222/graph13.htm).

renethx

02-21-08, 10:48 PM

Hi,
anyone familiar with these great little (and very quiet) engines?
I have one as a desktop (mini)PC, and it's so small, quiet and saves some power (90W), I'm seriously considering to buy another one as a HTPC.

Are the specs below sufficient for HTPC (want to play back HD content from a NAS)?
What mobile Intel CPU would you recommend to put in (the miniPC comes a s a barebone where CPU/HDD/RAM needs to be added.

http://minipc.aopen.com/europe/spec.htm

Support Intel Core 2 Duo (Merom & Penryn), Celeron CPU (Santa Rosa & Santa Rosa Refresh)
Intel GM965 on Die Intel GMA X3100
Dual Channel Support
DDRII SO-DIMM x 2 533/667
HD Audio, 5.1CH
90W (19V, 4.74A) AC Adapter
size: 6.49(W)x1.96(H)x6.49(D)!!!

tx for your advice!
I am not familiar with that mb, but from the specs, you will need a fast processor. How fast depends on each HD content, but 2.4GHz or higher is necessary. If the mb allows overclocking, you may choose Core 2 Duo T7300 2.0GHz ($255). Otherwise, choose T7700 2.4GHz, X7800 2.60GHz, T9300 2.50GHz, or T9500 2.60GHz (>$300).

jkuhn

02-22-08, 12:52 AM

E2220 2.4GHz $84 comes on March 2nd, that is even better
Renethx, thank you for the advice. I am going to hold out for a bit and keep up with the thread. I will make sure to use an HD 2600 XT or comparable card so that I have a safe bet on video.

I just finished watching a 480p xvid movie through my old NVIDA Quadro4 on my P4 2.0GHZ system as described before. This is my first HTPC experience and it is great to say the least.

BrundleFly

02-22-08, 02:03 AM

Thanks for the reply!

As far as picture quality goes is there any difference between 8600GT 512Mb and 8800GT 512 Mb?

renethx

02-22-08, 02:18 AM

Thanks for the reply!

As far as picture quality goes is there any difference between 8600GT 512Mb and 8800GT 512 Mb?
There is no difference. However, the new image enhancement technology will work better with 8800 GT because of the larger number of stream processors (32 vs. 128). This feature may be useful for older TVs and computer monitors.

Video purists will hate these features as they don't accurate reproduce the image that was originally recorded, instead you're getting the Best Buyification of your computer monitor: oversaturated colors and overboosted contrast galore. However it turns out that most users prefer oversaturated colors and overboosted contrast, which is why most TV makers ship their sets far from calibrated. Most PC monitors lack the sort of configuration options to achieve the same effect as an improperly, but appealingly calibrated TV. NVIDIA hopes that its PureVideo HD Enhancements will be able to bridge the gap between how things look on your PC monitor and how they look on your TV.

If you spend a lot of time properly calibrating your TV, chances are you won't want to use these features. Thankfully they can be disabled. However, if you do like similar functions on your TV, then you may just be pleased by what the 9600 GT has to offer.

AnandTech - Bringing Competition to Midrange: The GeForce 9600 GT Raises NVIDIA's Sub $200 Bar (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3234)

The above comment applies to 8800 GT too.

putana

02-22-08, 05:40 AM

Video card won't help with 1080p .mkv. HOWEVER, what it does add is all the post processing so playing anything can be post processed by the video card (deinterlace, denoise, scaling). Given there is still a LOT of non 1080p content (.avi, DVD, 720p), this may be the better route for you (and is the one I'm taking!!).

In that case, I might try using some hardware a friend has given me from his junk pile...
DFI 662-TMG/G (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4695&CATEGORY_TYPE=MB&SITE=US) motherboard (listed in the appendix section). LGA775, SIS chipset with onboard mirage graphics (hopefully he has a PCIe gfx card laying about too) and I have 1gig of DDR667. Just missing a CPU.
This page states the supported CPU's (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Support/mb_cpu_support_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4695&SITE=US). Most recent BIOS was mid last year but I don't think any of the C2D's should be a problem.

Assuming over-clocking is out of the question, what is the minimum CPU recommended for 1080p playback? An E2200 is around $105AUD, an E4600 $165AUD and moving up, E6550 $205AUD and E6750 $225AUD. I could look for used items and save some money I'm sure.

This will be a temporary HTPC to play with until the Intel G45 boards arrive and I can build a proper machine, whatever CPU I buy can be used in the new system.

arad85

02-22-08, 06:58 AM

In that case, I might try using some hardware a friend has given me from his junk pile...
DFI 662-TMG/G (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4695&CATEGORY_TYPE=MB&SITE=US) motherboard (listed in the appendix section). LGA775, SIS chipset with onboard mirage graphics (hopefully he has a PCIe gfx card laying about too) and I have 1gig of DDR667. Just missing a CPU.
This page states the supported CPU's (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Support/mb_cpu_support_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4695&SITE=US). Most recent BIOS was mid last year but I don't think any of the C2D's should be a problem.

Assuming over-clocking is out of the question, what is the minimum CPU recommended for 1080p playback? An E2200 is around $105AUD, an E4600 $165AUD and moving up, E6550 $205AUD and E6750 $225AUD. I could look for used items and save some money I'm sure.

This will be a temporary HTPC to play with until the Intel G45 boards arrive and I can build a proper machine, whatever CPU I buy can be used in the new system.
I think min reccomended is 2.2GHz C2D, but I'd want some headroom on that. As for graphics, don't forget that although the graphiics isn't doing anything with the decoding, the newer cards (ATI 2600, 3xxx and Nvidia 8xxx) have quite a lot of postprocessing which may help with other video resolutions.

AbMagFab

02-22-08, 07:52 AM

In that case, I might try using some hardware a friend has given me from his junk pile...
DFI 662-TMG/G (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Product/xx_product_spec_details_r_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4695&CATEGORY_TYPE=MB&SITE=US) motherboard (listed in the appendix section). LGA775, SIS chipset with onboard mirage graphics (hopefully he has a PCIe gfx card laying about too) and I have 1gig of DDR667. Just missing a CPU.
This page states the supported CPU's (http://us.dfi.com.tw/Support/mb_cpu_support_us.jsp?PRODUCT_ID=4695&SITE=US). Most recent BIOS was mid last year but I don't think any of the C2D's should be a problem.

Assuming over-clocking is out of the question, what is the minimum CPU recommended for 1080p playback? An E2200 is around $105AUD, an E4600 $165AUD and moving up, E6550 $205AUD and E6750 $225AUD. I could look for used items and save some money I'm sure.

This will be a temporary HTPC to play with until the Intel G45 boards arrive and I can build a proper machine, whatever CPU I buy can be used in the new system.

I've got a 2.4 C2D with a 8600GTS, and the CPU rarely goes above 20-30%.

aravs

02-22-08, 08:01 AM

first, thanks to renethx for a great thread full of lots of information. Great summaries at the front. I dont know where you got the time to collate all the research but well done!

some quick questions:

I'm migrating my htpc system from an amd socket 754 3200+ athlon64 with an agp hd2600pro card to an ASROCK 4COREDUAL-VSTA Socket775 (http://www.coreyscomputing.com/cart/productview.asp?key=286) mobo. Basically i want to keep using my agp vid card and my 2gb of ddr400 ram while allowing me to benefit from the increased power of a more modern chip and leave me with headroom down the road for a better pcie video card and ddr2 ram. my old system is able to playback hd material smoothly (Hd dvd, mkvs, 720 and 1080p files) but suffered from repeated random reboots and freezes (freezes always occur after playing higher resolution videos and exiting the player application). Somewhere between the motherboard, ram and card the system freezes and i've been tired of spending nearly 5months trying to figure out where. As it stands i will be able to use my older ram and vid card while upgrading to a better processor.

Given that my lowley amd 3200+ and hd2600pro were able to smoothly playback hd content, i'm assuming any newer cpu plus my agp card will be able to do the same? If so what cheap intel processor can i go with that will give me the best bang for the buck in media playback and divx, xvid and mkv creation? the 3 that i;m considering are:

1. pentium E2160 dual core (http://www.coreyscomputing.com/cart/productview.asp?key=147)
2. celeron e1200 dual core (http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=27770&vpn=BX80557E1200&manufacture=Intel&promoid=1058)
3. pentium D 915 dual core (http://www.coreyscomputing.com/cart/productview.asp?key=165)

the 2160 is my favored chip, been reading lots of good things about it. the celeron can be had for much less and the only diff is level 2 cache? The d915 i cant find too much info about but the local retailer i will buy from lists is as being a 2.8ghz processor with 2mb cache? is this correct? if so then would this be the best choice out of the 3 and give me the most computational power to play with at a faster speed than the other 2 cpus? or is the vendor's info mistaken? Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

renethx

02-22-08, 09:27 AM

aravs

Among the three chips I recommend E2160. E1200 is a version of reduced L2 cache size and lower speed (1.6GHz). D 915 is a completely different chip based on the older NetBurst architecture and you can't compare it clock for clock with the current chips based on Core microarchitecuture.

BTW the current "4CoreDual" is 4CoreDual-SATA2.

arad85

02-22-08, 10:20 AM

I've got a 2.4 C2D with a 8600GTS, and the CPU rarely goes above 20-30%.Is that 1080p .mkv files?

AbMagFab

02-22-08, 10:40 AM

Is that 1080p .mkv files?

Full BD/HDDVD ISO's, so yes.

BrundleFly

02-22-08, 11:05 AM

As far as picture quality and performance are concerned. What is the real difference between 8600GT and 8800GT?

renethx

02-22-08, 11:14 AM

As far as picture quality and performance are concerned. What is the real difference between 8600GT and 8800GT?
This post?

BrundleFly

02-22-08, 11:31 AM

Woh, I wrote that real late last night and thought I never posted my bad!

Acidshort

02-22-08, 01:22 PM

Hi,

I have been working my way through the build of my HTPC and one other purchase I have yet to make is either Win XP MCE or Vista. I want to continue to be able to play games on the machine and watch movies, archive data, and capture TV both High Def and analog Cable.

Is there a site that evaluates the OS's that I could check into? I noticed that the one here is 'in the works' and imagine that there is some good stuff out there for me to read up on before making the investment.

In addition to the OS, are there any programs for archiving DVD data that are recommended for that OS? (i.e. if Win XP MCE w/ SP2, is Nero 7 a good choice and/or Slysoft's AnyDVD/DVDClone)

I am working through this site that talks about XP MCE:
http://www.htpcnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=26&limit=1&limitstart=1

In that article, he admittedly is very biased for XP MCE. Any other feedback?
Thanks for the guidance.

AbMagFab

02-22-08, 01:32 PM

I would never use the MB RAID controllers. They generally stink. And they rarely support expanding the RAID array, or hot-spares, or changing the RAID type, etc.

If you really want RAID, spend ~$200 and get a Highpoint or Promise card (I personally like the HP 2220 series).

Edit: and yes, you said "Never"....

Are you hard of reading? Clearly, I said "rarely" support, not "never" support.

(Nice try, but no score, if you're incorrectly referring to my desire to use onboard RAID.)

BrundleFly

02-22-08, 02:51 PM

So early I was told I would need 3.0Ghz to playback HD DVD and BLU RAY, if that is the case why am I seeing so many builds that use less like2.4 or 2.66??

aamilo

02-22-08, 04:32 PM

So early I was told I would need 3.0Ghz to playback HD DVD and BLU RAY, if that is the case why am I seeing so many builds that use less like2.4 or 2.66??

I believe it comes down to Hardware Accelerated Video or not. If you are using a discrete video card with HA (OR one of soon to be release IGP with HA) then a slower processor is fine. Although if your video does not have HA then you'll need a speedy processor to take over the workload.

arad85

02-22-08, 07:38 PM

Full BD/HDDVD ISO's, so yes.Well, no - cos that's not what I asked :rolleyes: That's because your graphics card is accelerating the decode.

Generic 1080p .mkv files are not hardware accelerated so you need more horsepower to play them.

putana

02-22-08, 07:54 PM

Well, no - cos that's not what I asked :rolleyes: That's because your graphics card is accelerating the decode.

Generic 1080p .mkv files are not hardware accelerated so you need more horsepower to play them.

Yeah, these are the files I'm trying to cater for. I figure if the system is powerful enough to do those, everything else is easy (or fixed with discrete video).

David O

02-22-08, 08:21 PM

Well, no - cos that's not what I asked :rolleyes: That's because your graphics card is accelerating the decode.

Generic 1080p .mkv files are not hardware accelerated so you need more horsepower to play them.
Yes that is my understanding too. If you want to play .mkv files or similar you are safest planning to have 3.0GHz processor whether by overclocking or not.

The good news is that you can forego the separate graphics card so it works out cheaper. Unless you are a gamer, but IMO games and HTPC are mutually exclusive rigs due to heat and noise issues. That may change with the latest GPU cards as Mark Rejhon points out a page or two ago.

renethx

02-22-08, 08:41 PM

So early I was told I would need 3.0Ghz to playback HD DVD and BLU RAY, if that is the case why am I seeing so many builds that use less like2.4 or 2.66??
You are confused. :)

- If full hardware acceleration from the graphics works (if you choose one of the latest cards, it works), then even a sinlge-core processor can play back BD/HD DVD.
- If full hardware accleration does not work (in case you use an older card or you turn off HA intentionally), then C2D 3.0GHz may be necessary to play back BD/HD DVD.
- You still need a fast processor (C2D 2.0-2.66GHz) to play many 1080p mkv files because HA does not work for these files but they may not be of so high bitrate as BD (depending on each file). That's a reason why many people choose 2.4-2.66GHz.

Basically you don't have to worry about the stock CPU speed because most Core 2 Duo (and Pentium Dual-Core) processors can be overclocked to 2.66-3.00GHz easily (if your mb supports overclocking of course) and still stay cool without bumping up CPU voltage. But not everyone likes overclocking. In this case 2.66GHz or higher is a safer choice.

itschris

02-23-08, 08:58 AM

AbMagFab

02-23-08, 09:18 AM

If you're not concerned about a few hundred bucks, would it be the best option to get 3ghz cpu and a card with it's own harware acceleraton? I'm trying to think about changes down the road that may require faster processing.. so I'm wondering if just makes sense to set it up that way now.

"Down the road" you'll be able to get a much faster CPU and Graphics card for much cheaper.

It makes no sense in the computer world to buy more than you need for the immediate future (next 6-12 months). The price drops so quickly, you just buy better later, when you actually need it, and save money overall.

This isn't like buying a TV or car, that you might replace once every 3-5 years and costs many thousands. You're talking items that cost ~$100-200.

itschris

02-23-08, 09:53 AM

Thanks.. that makes total sense.

scientest

02-23-08, 11:25 AM

Are you hard of reading? Clearly, I said "rarely" support, not "never" support.

(Nice try, but no score, if you're incorrectly referring to my desire to use onboard RAID.)

Nothing wrong with my reading, you said "Never", you just proved that. I didn't say in reference to what, nor did you. Given your information was pretty much incorrect all the way around splitting hairs over your ambiguity doesn't really matter.

tate16t

02-23-08, 11:47 AM

What are the advantages/disadvantages of using SageTV over a HTPC solution with VMC?

AbMagFab

02-23-08, 12:31 PM

Nothing wrong with my reading, you said "Never", you just proved that. I didn't say in reference to what, nor did you. Given your information was pretty much incorrect all the way around splitting hairs over your ambiguity doesn't really matter.

My information is extremely accurate. And you're just being a PITA (which I'm sure you hear all the time, and when you grow up and start real life, you'll hear it on your performance reviews as well - that's if you stay at one place for more than 6 months, which I'd guess is unlikely, until you "learn your lesson").

And go ahead, cheap out, and use the crappy MB RAID. There's a really good reason that no one but uninformed consumers use cheap MB RAID, rather than dedicated RAID cards. But again, you know better - so enjoy!

(And feel free to get the last word, you know you can't control yourself, and I'm big enough to let you.)

etcarroll

02-23-08, 12:44 PM

Guys - take this somewhere else. Renethx has done a fine job creating this thread as a resource, I can't beleive he's thrilled seeing it used in this fashion.

binary64

02-24-08, 01:59 AM

Hi - I'm overjoyed this thread is maturing nicely.

I am confused about what CPU mhz I need (as I see some other people are too). Can I ask a straightforward question please?:-

I intend to buy a "Gigabyte GA73PVM-S2H NF630i (integrated GeForce 7100 with HDMI)" motherboard. With 2 GB of 800MHz memory. I plan on using the integrated 7100 due to wattage restraints (300w).

My question is what is the minimium CPU I would need to guarentee smooth 1080p at high bitrates such a BD/HDDVD levels - without the encryption. I'm talking about those demanding mkv files. OS will be Vista. My codec will be CoreAVC... which from what I understand still does not have any HA at all.

My best guess is: Intel Core 2 Duo E6550, S775, 2.33 GHz, 1333MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 4MB Cache, Retail stock fan.

Thanks! Anyone with that Gigabyte motherboard - please can we hear your feedback.

AbMagFab

02-24-08, 09:36 AM

rockytt

02-24-08, 09:59 AM

grittree

02-24-08, 11:08 AM

I intend to buy a "Gigabyte GA73PVM-S2H NF630i (integrated GeForce 7100 with HDMI)" motherboard. With 2 GB of 800MHz memory. I plan on using the integrated 7100 due to wattage restraints (300w).

My question is what is the minimium CPU I would need to guarentee smooth 1080p at high bitrates such a BD/HDDVD levels - without the encryption. I'm talking about those demanding mkv files. OS will be Vista. My codec will be CoreAVC... which from what I understand still does not have any HA at all.

My best guess is: Intel Core 2 Duo E6550, S775, 2.33 GHz, 1333MHz FSB, Conroe Core, 4MB Cache, Retail stock fan.

Thanks! Anyone with that Gigabyte motherboard - please can we hear your feedback.

I use that board to feed a 1080p PJ using the IGP.

CPU is a E4300 pad modded to 266FSB, running at 9x325= 2.9GHz. It smoothly plays all 1080p MKVs I have, but gets flaky when doing skips & fast forwards when the bit rate gets above 10Mbps. I'm still using ffdshow in Vista MC. Coreavc might help a little.

renethx

02-24-08, 11:55 AM

binary64

Here is the result of a CPU usage test.

System

- eVGA GeForce 7150 motherboard
- Pentium Dual-Core E2200 2.20GHz, under/overclocked to 2.00GHz, 2.33GHz, 2.66GHz, 3.00GHz respectively
- DDR2-800 2GB
- Onboard video (core clock is 630MHz, 30MHz faster than GeForce 7100, but the difference should be negligible in video playback)
- Vista 32-bit

BD movie

- Pirates of the Caribbean 3, the first 100 seconds of Chapter 24 (video bitrate: 30-48Mbps), decrypted by AnyDVD HD in real-time (the CPU usage will be slightly lower by a few percent if you play back the movie from HDD because the processor does not have to do decryption in real-time).

Player and Decoder

- Media Player Classic (the same configuration as sarah99's post except that video decoder is either CoreAVC Video Decoder 1.6.5 (Jan 29, 2008) or CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder, and that "Playback Output" is Overlay Mixer as VMR7/9 causes stutters)
-PowerDVD 7.3.3514 (Nov 14, 2007)

Test Method

The average and maximum CPU usage during the 100 seconds is measured using Vista's Performance Monitor.

Results

Average and maximum CPU usage at each clock speed are:

2.00GHz

- MPC with CoreAVC Decoder: 98.376, 100.000 (lots of stutters)
- MPC with CyberLink Decoder: 95.940, 100.000 (lots of stutters)
- PowerDVD: 96.147, 99.220 (unwatchable due to heavy stutters and corrupt frames)

2.33GHz

- MPC with CoreAVC Decoder: 82.458, 94.540 (perfectly smooth)
- MPC with CyberLink Decoder: 96.673, 100.000 (mostly smooth)
- PowerDVD: 94.341, 99.220 (unwatchable due to heavy stutters and corrupt frames)

2.66GHz

- MPC with CoreAVC Decoder: 76.281, 91.420 (perfectly smooth)
- MPC with CyberLink Decoder: 94.986, 100.000 (mostly smooth)
- PowerDVD: 95.758, 100.000 (unwatchable due to heavy stutters and corrupt frames)

3.00GHz

- MPC with CoreAVC Decoder: 65.798, 82.060 (perfectly smooth; VMR9 Windowed is also very smooth)
- MPC with CyberLink Decoder: 84.861, 99.220 (smooth)
- PowerDVD: 95.477, 98.516 (unwatchable due to heavy stutters and corrupt frames)

The CPU usage reached its maximum at the highest bitrate (around 48Mbps). Not so many .mkv files are of this high bitrate, so a cheaper processor such as Pentium Dual-Core should be enough. Pentium Dual-Core E2220 2.4GHz ($84, released on March 2nd) will be a great choice.

jerome8283

02-24-08, 11:55 AM

Has the HD 3670 been released yet?

scientest

02-24-08, 12:16 PM

My information is extremely accurate.

Afraid not, you seem to have little actual knowledge of on board RAID or the mother board chip sets that implement them. That's not surprising since you tell us you (ahem) "never" use them. Your information would have been somewhat accurate 3 or 4 years ago (although still a gross over generalization).

And you're just being a PITA (which I'm sure you hear all the time, and when you grow up and start real life, you'll hear it on your performance reviews as well - that's if you stay at one place for more than 6 months, which I'd guess is unlikely, until you "learn your lesson").

Ah yes, the last refuge of the uniformed; start flaming and making personal attacks. Very mature indeed...

I wasn't the one who found it necessary to worry about "never" vs. "rarely". Frankly, I couldn't care less if you had said "only on Tuesday when there is a blue moon". Nor did I ever imply that your semantics made one bit of difference.

The simple fact is there are some 20 or so versions of the nForce chip set that implement the features you listed and 100's of motherboards that use them. Decent on board RAID chip sets are not real common but nor are they (as you implied) rare. More-over competition in the on board RAID chip set market has heated up in the last couple of years for two reasons: 1) wider availability of the technology at lower prices; 2) it's an easy way for the MB manufacturers to differentiate themselves. I haven't personally used any of the nForce alternatives so I can't report first hand how well they do for the kind of work load members here at AVS would require but I expect some of them to be competitive to the nForce.

And go ahead, cheap out, and use the crappy MB RAID. There's a really good reason that no one but uninformed consumers use cheap MB RAID, rather than dedicated RAID cards.

The motherboard I pointed you at running thee Samsung Spinpoint 500 GBs in RAID 5 gives you the following:

220MB/sec buffered read, 54MB/sec sequential read, 44MB/sec random read, 65MB/sec buffered write, 50MB/sec sequential write, 25MB/sec random write with a random access time of 5 ms.

It has every RAID management feature one would ever require and it comes for a trivial price. So tell me, what's the "really good reason"?

At work we routinely evaluate everything from high end enterprise RAID using (eg.) Atlas 15K SCSI, Fiber Channel, etc. down to clusters of machines using SATA drives running on the cheapest MBs we can find. For some work loads a cluster running on the cheapest MBs gives a far better bang / buck than the expensive "enterprise" solutions and meets all the needs. Similarly, there is _no_ one sized fits all recommendation anyone should be making here on AVS. There are going to be hundreds of different end user requirements and 100s of different solutions to meet those needs. To suggest that on board RAID chip sets should never be considered at all is down right irresponsible. To start making personal attacks on someone who you have no knowledge of is just immature.

But again, you know better - so enjoy!

(And feel free to get the last word, you know you can't control yourself, and I'm big enough to let you.)

But apparently not "big enough" to behave civilly...

I could care less about "last word", OTOH accurate information as opposed to arrogance would be appreciated.

renethx

02-24-08, 12:26 PM

renethx

02-24-08, 12:26 PM

Has the HD 3670 been released yet?
No.

rockytt

02-24-08, 12:36 PM

The MSI card should be good (if your case accepts it).

Thanks for the affirmation in the card - should fit (fingers crossed after measuring...)

AbMagFab

02-24-08, 03:19 PM

Please help with a new video card reccomendation - I really hate these posts but I'm a bit stuck right now.
I'm using my system for BD + HD-DVD playback and need a new video card to facilitate this. I ordered this card (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121098) as it was going to be perfect - EXCEPT my case won't allow it because it just a bit too wide. So-for about the same $$$, what's the best/most silent card I should get? Not too picky when it comes to Nvida or ATI - just want what will work best in this situation - thanks!
It's got to be quiet - my last (6600gt) card sounded like a jet taking off

This card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127287) looks like a perfect fit. (I have extra width in the "wrong" direction in my case) Any complaints with this card running in XP for BD + HD-DVD playback? (no gaming)

I use this card:
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127301

It's silent, and it's got an HDMI port (which I liked, not that it matter too much), and theoretically it will "merge" the SPDIF into the HDMI cable if you plug them together, but I never got that working.

I'm using it solely for a HTPC, and it's more than adequate (supports HA too).

rockytt

02-24-08, 03:29 PM

Looks like a monster - I love it!
However, those heatsinks are on the side I can't put anything :(

Grogdamighty

02-25-08, 01:07 AM

Hopefully this post isn't too out of place. I just found this thread after a couple of weeks of casual research into the HTPC world, but I'll readily admit that I didn't come close to reading the 30+ pages of discussion. I was very impressed with the thoroughness of the suggested builds and components, but I was wondering if I could get some answers/suggestions about how they might apply to my situation.

I think I've finally convinced my wife that it would be great to have a PVR, but the combination of medical student (me) and high school teacher (her) doesn't lend to a lot of excess gadget money. I've looked into buying commercial DVRs, but after paying subscription fees it seems like it's not worth locking yourself into something when you can build your own customizable system. I'm looking to build a low-end system with the following caveats:

1. I'm only passingly computer nerdy (I built my last desktop, that's it)
2. We watch OTA DTV on a 480i CRT, but will upgrade in the future. For now, true HD output and HD optical (HD-DVD and Blu-ray) aren't needed.
3. I like this look of the low-end systems but will probably sort out final components over the next couple months. I think I'll be adding a Hauppage WinTV-HVR-1600 as my tuner.

Are there any corners I can cut to save money? If relevant, recall that I won't need HD output (though I watch a lot of HD signals, particularly PBS, on my TV). Also, I'll most likely be using Windows Vista Ultimate as my media center (won a free copy) and will be connecting the PC to my TV via component input.

What changes to the suggested template (if any) do I need to make for my particular needs? Maybe this is a dumb question, but will everything look right on my less-than-HD television? Lastly, will this be simple enough for my non-techie wife to use?

renethx

02-25-08, 01:27 AM

jkuhn

02-25-08, 01:33 AM

Grogdamighty,

I'm using the Hauppage WinTV-HVR-1600 on a P4 2.0Ghz with 1.256 GB of ram and standard television is not a problem. Whether or not you have a good view of the on screen menus will depend on what PVR program you choose to use and the quality of your current CRT television.

Hope that helps.

Mascot

02-25-08, 04:23 AM

The next recommended low-end mATX system (good for every HD content) will be

- CPU: Athlon 4850e 2.5 GHz, $89
- MB: GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H, ~$80

Both are released on March 4. The other components will be unchanged.

The Gigabyte card is allready available from some resellers, allthough it's worringly been removed from Gigabytes official homepage and the message people get it "not an official retail motherboard model", wich is a huge concern thinking about support and drivers for the future. The Nvidia MCP78U/S with GeForce 8200 is an option, allthough the purevideo HD does not give as effective hardware acceleration as the avivi hd with uvd+ according to several comparisons between the two technologies.

None if the two seem to handle full hd audio through HDMI, 16-bit colordepth etc as its supposed to with the HDMI 1.3a support, according to reports (see specifik threads on this forum for example..)

I though I had decided on the Gigabyte RS780 board myself, but now I'm all confused again... :(

Can u help me out Renethx? :)

renethx

02-25-08, 09:57 AM

sgtroyer

02-25-08, 12:03 PM

What are mkv files and why can't they be accelerated? What type of content is encoded as mkv? (they're not used for blu-ray, right?) If they can't be accelerated, why would someone use them?

BrundleFly

02-25-08, 01:06 PM

Power DVD has a lot of Artifacts? Sorry if I am confused.

renethx

02-25-08, 01:18 PM

Power DVD has a lot of Artifacts? Sorry if I am confused.
GeForce 7150 + PDVD -> unwatchable

tighr

02-25-08, 01:31 PM

If you are fine with HDMI 1.2 and S/PDIF-level audio, then just relax and wait. Nobody knows yet which is better, RS780 or MCP78.
Can someone explain to me the benefit of even using HDMI if you're going to be using S/PDIF anyway?

If I understand correctly, DVI (and by extension, DVI->HDMI cables) don't pass HDCP. And S/PDIF doesn't pass 7.1. Other than that, if I'm not going to display flagged video, and if I use 5.1 audio anyway, then is there a real benefit to having on-board HDMI at all? My current old-school HTPC (circa 2004) has DVI and S/PDIF going to my HDTV.

Of course, I like to future proof so I'll keep looking for that right CPU/GPU/MOBO combination for me... ugh. So many choices.

Smitty2k1

02-25-08, 01:36 PM

Can someone explain to me the benefit of even using HDMI if you're going to be using S/PDIF anyway?

One cable! The new chipsets coming out supposedly support 7.1LPCM via HDMI. Once we get software support it will no longer be SPDIF level out of your HDMI port! Currently the newest Intel integrated video chipset also supports 7.1LPCM but alas no software support.

anarchys_revenge

02-25-08, 03:37 PM

Please help with a new video card reccomendation - I really hate these posts but I'm a bit stuck right now.
I'm using my system for BD + HD-DVD playback and need a new video card to facilitate this. I ordered this card (http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121098) as it was going to be perfect - EXCEPT my case won't allow it because it just a bit too wide. So-for about the same $$$, what's the best/most silent card I should get? Not too picky when it comes to Nvida or ATI - just want what will work best in this situation - thanks!
It's got to be quiet - my last (6600gt) card sounded like a jet taking off

This card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127287) looks like a perfect fit. (I have extra width in the "wrong" direction in my case) Any complaints with this card running in XP for BD + HD-DVD playback? (no gaming)

Glad someone asked this since I'm in the same boat. I'm looking at upgrading my existing HTPC on MCE 2005 to be HD ready. I'm probably going to pickup the LG dual HD BluRay drive and with my existing integrated X3100 graphics with a E4300 CPU, I'll probably need the hardware assist froma dedicated graphics card. Based on my research the only 8500GT with passive cooling I found , is this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125062
Glad that there is another option. Question - so do I need to worry about HDCP-compliance if I had to convert the DVI to HDMI?
thx,
MC

BrundleFly

02-25-08, 04:45 PM

Anyone have an opinion on using a MicroATX MOBO with a discrete Video Card? Specifically this one...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130286

Is so which MOBO is the best?

rizorith

02-26-08, 01:41 AM

Great guide but I'm confused on a few points and I'm hoping some of you can help me out.

When physically connecting the audio and video from the htpc to my plasma, what cables do I use? The guide suggests that internally i can connect my soundcard to the video card and then run a hdmi cable from the video card to the plasma hdmi in. Is this possible? I've seen very few motherboards that even have a HDMI cable. If I were to do this, would I then use the digital audio out on the plasma and wire it to my receiver to get audio?

If I don't do this, what is the preferred way of getting audio/video to the plasma and receiver? The plasma has 2 HDMI connections and a digital audio out (I think it's toslink). The receiver (actually logitech z5500) has a digital coax in and an optical in.

Also, would the audio that goes in the plasma through my OTA coax antenna be piped to the stereo through the digital audio out on the plasma?

renethx

02-26-08, 02:35 AM

Anyone have an opinion on using a MicroATX MOBO with a discrete Video Card? Specifically this one...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130286

Is so which MOBO is the best?
Basically you can use any PCIe mATX mb with this card. If you like a cheap mb with S/PDIF port, eVGA GeForce 7100 is good. See the mb section of the guide for other recommendations.

renethx

02-26-08, 02:39 AM

Mascot

02-26-08, 04:15 AM

Mascot

If you are looking for HDMI 1.3a, then a stand-alone player is your only choice right now and in the near future. You'd better go back to HTPC a year later.

If you are fine with HDMI 1.2 and S/PDIF-level audio, then just relax and wait. Nobody knows yet which is better, RS780 or MCP78.

No, I dont need HDMI 1.3a. I need 7.1 sound through analogue outputs with hd audio support and possibility to set delay/speaker distance.

If I get a discrete audio card (like one from m-audio) with 24/192 and 8 channel analogue out, will that work with anydvd hd and power dvdultra??

Speaker diatance/delay is a must for me and the relatek chips dont seem to have the function. Who has all speakers on the same distance from the listening position?? I want to use a 7 channel poweramp connected to my HTPC.

AbMagFab

02-26-08, 09:42 AM

No, I dont need HDMI 1.3a. I need 7.1 sound through analogue outputs with hd audio support and possibility to set delay/speaker distance.

If I get a discrete audio card (like one from m-audio) with 24/192 and 8 channel analogue out, will that work with anydvd hd and power dvdultra??

Speaker diatance/delay is a must for me and the relatek chips dont seem to have the function. Who has all speakers on the same distance from the listening position?? I want to use a 7 channel poweramp connected to my HTPC.

You don't have a pre-pro between your HTPC and amp? You're best bet is to get this functionality from a pre-pro. Feed the 7.1 from the HTPC into the pre-pro, then from the pre-pro into your amp.

You can do all the speaker calibrations in your pre-pro.

BrundleFly

02-26-08, 10:45 AM

Renethx...thanks as always for all the help. As far as Cases go do you still recommend then ones you list for Mid Range? Is there any others you can suggest?

renethx

02-26-08, 10:58 AM

Renethx...thanks as always for all the help. As far as Cases go do you still recommend then ones you list for Mid Range? Is there any others you can suggest?
Have you decided the form factor (mATX or ATX)? Do you need an integrated IR receiver? I can suggest you several options, but first I need to know them.

BrundleFly

02-26-08, 11:12 AM

rizorith

02-26-08, 11:45 AM

Connection method depends on each video card and motherboard (if the video card has an internal S/PDIF connector, if the mb has an S/PDIF port in the back panel, etc.). So please tell us the model number of your video card and sound card/motherboard.

I'm gathering information for a build so I don't have specific part numbers. I'm likely to go with one of the p35 intel motherboards (although I'm open to suggestions) and a 8800gt or 9600 video card. I'll probably use the built in sound on the motherboard because I've been hearing there aren't too many reasons to get a discrete one for 5.1 sound through the logitech z5500's.

I'm really confused on if I can use one HDMI cable for video and audio because I've been reading that I can and sometimes that I can't.

renethx

02-26-08, 12:06 PM

I think I have decided on the Full ATX and I would prefer Integrated IR, I also want to be as slim as possible without squeezing out to much space ( I am a first time builder so I most likely need all the room I can get)

Then

- SilverStone Lascala LC20M
- SilverStone Grandia GD01-MX
- Moneual Lab MonCaso 832
- OrigenAE X11 V2
- Zalman HD160 Plus

"Slim" and ATX can't be compatible with each other. You'd better choose a full-height case for better compatibility with expansion cards.

BrundleFly

02-26-08, 12:20 PM

Then

- SilverStone Lascala LC20M
- SilverStone Grandia GD01-MX
- Moneual Lab MonCaso 832
- OrigenAE X11 V2
- Zalman HD160 Plus

"Slim" and ATX can't be compatible with each other. You'd better choose a full-height case for better compatibility with expansion cards.

Thanks as always! I like the design of the Origen Ones I think I might end up with that.

renethx

02-26-08, 12:21 PM

I'm gathering information for a build so I don't have specific part numbers. I'm likely to go with one of the p35 intel motherboards (although I'm open to suggestions) and a 8800gt or 9600 video card. I'll probably use the built in sound on the motherboard because I've been hearing there aren't too many reasons to get a discrete one for 5.1 sound through the logitech z5500's.

I'm really confused on if I can use one HDMI cable for video and audio because I've been reading that I can and sometimes that I can't.
There are two methods.

1. Connect the video card to the plasm using a DVI-to-HDMI adpater and a HDMI cable (or a DVI-to-HDMI adpater cable). Connect the S/PDIF port of the motherboard (e.g. GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L or GA-EP35-DS4) to Z-5500.

2. Assuming the plasma's S/PDIF out supports 5.1 Ch., connect the video card (restricted to the ASUS, ECS, Leadtek, MSI, or ZOTAC GeForce 9600 GT card) to the plasma using the bundled DVI-to-HDMI adpater (that supports audio transmission) and a HDMI cable, and connect the mb's internal S/PDIF out connector to the video card's S/PDIF in connector with the supplied cable. Connect the plasma's S/PDIF out to Z-5500.

In the first case, the HDMI cable carries only video signal (you can use either GeForce 8800 GT or GeForce 9600, or any card with DVI out). In the second case the HDMI cable carries both video and audio (GeForce 9600 GT only).

rizorith

02-26-08, 12:41 PM

There are two methods.

1. Connect the video card to the plasm using a DVI-to-HDMI adpater and a HDMI cable (or a DVI-to-HDMI adpater cable). Connect the S/PDIF port of the motherboard (e.g. GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L or GA-EP35-DS4) to Z-5500.

2. Assuming the plasma's S/PDIF out supports 5.1 Ch., connect the video card (restricted to the ASUS, ECS, Leadtek, MSI, or ZOTAC GeForce 9600 GT card) to the plasma using the bundled DVI-to-HDMI adpater (that supports audio transmission) and a HDMI cable, and connect the mb's internal S/PDIF out connector to the video card's S/PDIF in connector with the supplied cable. Connect the plasma's S/PDIF out to Z-5500.

In the first case, the HDMI cable carries only video signal (you can use either GeForce 8800 GT or GeForce 9600, or any card with DVI out). In the second case the HDMI cable carries both video and audio (GeForce 9600 GT only).

Thanks for your help. Is one method preferable to the other or has better sound/picture quality?

Also, I want to also connect my computer monitor and 2.1 speakers to the computer when I use it as a home PC. Is this easy to do? I see most video cards have two DVI outs and my 20" monitor has a DVI in. The 2.1 speakers are kipsch 2.1's so they're not digital so I can just use the mini-RCA cable, correct?

renethx

02-26-08, 12:55 PM

Thanks for your help. Is one method preferable to the other or has better sound/picture quality?

Also, I want to also connect my computer monitor and 2.1 speakers to the computer when I use it as a home PC. Is this easy to do? I see most video cards have two DVI outs and my 20" monitor has a DVI in. The 2.1 speakers are kipsch 2.1's so they're not digital so I can just use the mini-RCA cable, correct?
Either method should give identical picture/sound quality.

You can connect one DVI to the plasma and the other to the computer monitor to use both. Use the cable supplied with the Klipsch to connect it to the motherboard's analog out. But you can't use analog and S/PDIF at the same time (you need to choose either one from Window's control panel).

sloth0815

02-26-08, 02:23 PM

Hi There,
I have been following this thread for a while. Excellent stuff! I will soon be starting to build my own HTPC to watch DVDs, BluRay, any video files on the harddrive and to listen to my mp3 collection (no TV). For videos I am using a projector which has to be switched on anyway but I was wondering if there is a way to browse through my collection and play a specific mp3 file without switching on any monitor/projector. So far I have only found built in touchscreens but that is no option (expensive and quite unattractive in my opinion).
I would really like to only use an on board graphics solution so I'll wait until those MB are available. With no extra slots needed would you still suggest a "big" case? I really like the Origen H6 for its minimalistic design but I could find only one review on it. Any other suggestions?
I guess that's all for now. Thanks so much for this thread.

renethx

02-26-08, 02:58 PM

zelster

02-26-08, 03:07 PM

Hello to everybody here.
This is my first post and I'm newbee in HTPC, well, more or less:-)

After I read lots of recommendations, my question is short:
I decided to buy proc E8400.
I have a choise to get cheap new MB ABIT IP35 Pro.
Is there any change related to slow Lan connection?
Any other cons?

Thx and BR

zelster

02-26-08, 03:19 PM

And the other choise is Asus P5K Deluxe.
I'll choose one of those Gpu 's:
-GeForce 9600 GT
-XFX Geforce 8800GTS
-Gainward GeForce 8600GT SilentFX

renethx

02-26-08, 03:36 PM

After I read lots of recommendations, my question is short:
I decided to buy proc E8400.
I have a choise to get cheap new MB ABIT IP35 Pro.
Is there any change related to slow Lan connection?
Any other cons?
IP35 Pro: Teaming the Realtek RTL8169 (http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?p=863045)

I've heard compatibility problems of IP35 Pro with E8400 and Corsair PSU, but it seems that they are minor problems.

And the other choise is Asus P5K Deluxe.
P5K Deluxe consumes 30W more power than other P965/P35 mbs because the 2nd generation 8-phase power is badly designed.

zelster

02-26-08, 04:13 PM

Thx renethx!

I'll ask different way:
Which MB do you reccomend today (as everything is changing on a daily basis)?
Price level as MB mentioned before (ABIT IP35 Pro, Asus P5K Deluxe, Asus P5N32-E SLI...)
Combined with proc E8400.

So, I need Sata, eSata connection, HD ready, Spdif out (receiver does not support HDMI), I'll record SD movies (sat receiver), maybe sometimes gaming (therefore XFX Geforce 8800GTS), copying DVD's, ...DTS playback (HDD, DVD, ...)

Actually I need good basis to work on (CPU, MB, GPU).
To be able to discover all benefits of digital world, HTPC.

I already use:
-Yamaha receiver DSP-A2
-Panasonic plasma TH-50PV600E (not full HD; 1366 x 768)
-Projektor Hitachi CP-x345 (not full HD; 720p)
-Sat receiver Homecast 5101, HD - good
-DVD player: Yamaha DVD-S550

renethx

02-26-08, 04:24 PM

zelster

The "ATX High-End system" in the guide is an answer.

risk1994

02-26-08, 04:57 PM

"AMD 780G chipset for AMD (codenamed RS780) supporting UVD+, released on March 4, 2008 "

Did you update this? I dont remember their being a hard date like that? Is there new information?

renethx

02-26-08, 05:13 PM

"AMD 780G chipset for AMD (codenamed RS780) supporting UVD+, released on March 4, 2008 "

Did you update this? I dont remember their being a hard date like that? Is there new information?
The information is up to date. A recent news (http://xtreview.com/addcomment-id-4304-view-Athlon-X2-4850e.html) confirms this.

"In 4 th March AMD company will present dual core processor Athlon X2 4850e (2.5 GHz) with TDP level not more than 45 W and the integrated chipset AMD 780G."

Yeah, "present" is a bit ambiguous. But I expect many mbs will be available on and after March 4th.

HT Slider

02-27-08, 01:48 AM

renethx,

I have to say you have done an excellent job putting together an incredible amount of information assisting everyone with their next HTPC or HTPC upgrade.

A couple of things though that I feel are generally missing with all of the HTPC advice out there on the Internet (including this thread) are:

1. Suggesting that the consumer put together a list of specifications and capabilities that they want their HTPC to be able to perform and then use that spec to select components that meet their needs.

2. An overall explanation regarding audio hookup options and limitations, up front and at the beginning of the HTPC design. Specifically this is to ensure people don't get stuck, after building a system to find that when they play certain HD-DVDs, Blue-ray movies, sources with multi-channel PCM, downloaded videos with multi-channel mpeg-1 audio, WMV-HD movies, or multi-channel WMA music, etc. that instead of getting 5.1+ channels that they only hear 2 channels (or they must manually switch to low end analog outputs and have relatively poor quality sound).

I find #2 is a common and recurring issue where a lack of understanding and/or HTPC audio capabilities leads to postings such as these ones by DJ79 and MartinK:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13232416#post13232416

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13233530#post13233530

These audio problems are only getting more and more common, especially with some HD-DVD and Blue-ray only including Dolby TrueHD and/or multi-channel PCM audio tracks, and won't be properly resolved until fully functional 8-channel HDMI audio becomes mainstream. Today new HTPC hobbyists need to understand the limitations they are getting themselves into if they select a low end audio solution and intend to rely on basic SPDIF out.

In the past 6 months alone I've received something like 25 e-mails/pms from individuals asking for help resolving why certain multi-channel/5.1/7.1 audio sources only produce 2-channels of audio from their new HTPC.

If you agree, feel free to "plagiarise" any of my posts on these topics.

Mascot

02-27-08, 04:05 AM

Full BD/HDDVD ISO's, so yes.

Not the same thing as 1080p x264 .mkv arhives. BD/HDDVD ISO's can be hardware accelerated with your videocard but not x264/.mkv.

Bluray discs demand less horsepower than x264/.mkv in 1080p wich in some cases with high bitrates demand up to 3.0 ghz dual core CPU's to playback 100%.

Mascot

02-27-08, 04:12 AM

You don't have a pre-pro between your HTPC and amp? You're best bet is to get this functionality from a pre-pro. Feed the 7.1 from the HTPC into the pre-pro, then from the pre-pro into your amp.

You can do all the speaker calibrations in your pre-pro.

What's a pre-pro? Can u give me a link? Is it like a preamp? I would like to control the master volume with the HTPC remote..

Moondust

02-27-08, 06:58 AM

BD/HDDVD ISO's can be hardware accelerated with your videocard but not x264/.mkv.
When encoded according to Profile High @ Level 4.1 x264 mkv's can be hardware accelerated. See here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972503).

Mascot

02-27-08, 08:14 AM

Yes, ofcourse. Unfortunately most of the x264's "out there" are not. But I guess more will be... hopefully! :)

AbMagFab

02-27-08, 09:25 AM

What's a pre-pro? Can u give me a link? Is it like a preamp? I would like to control the master volume with the HTPC remote..

Yes, a pre-amp, or AVR. It's the place you do your speaker calibration.

renethx

02-27-08, 12:01 PM

HT Slider

Thanks for suggestions. I am planning to overhaul Part I of the guide as several chapters are out of date and I surely incorporate your suggestions. Some of your posts are well written and I surely plagiarise them. :) Suggestion 1 is not so easy to incorporate. Let me think what I can do ...

AbMagFab

02-27-08, 12:12 PM

I posted in the general forum, but figured I'd post here as well...

So I have a HTPC with a C2D 2.4, 8600GTS video card (with HDMI/HDCP out, plus theoretically I can merge SPDIF into the HDMI), and a CL X-Fi audio card. I'm using the 7.1 analog out to my AVR/pre-pro, and the sound is okay, but not great.

So - I can upgrade to the ASUS Xonar, and presumably significantly improve my 7.1 analog audio out?

Or, I can upgrade the MB to something that supports HDMI and 7.1 LPCM over HDMI, which I think is preferable, so I can use my pre-pro for matrixing and LFE/speaker balancing, etc.

My main use is playing purchased BD through PDVD (ripped to my HDD), and purchased SD DVD through PDVD (ripped), plus some AVCHD from my Sony camera, as well as some 2-channel FLAC/WMA-Lossless/MP3 music. Gaming is not necessary, but it's a nice-to-have.

Is there any MB, or video card right now that supports HD video up to 1080/60p, plus AVCHD and deinterlacing (ideally hardware accelerated), plus SD video (and deinterlacing), plus LPCM 7.1 audio, including DDLive/DTSConnect, all over HDMI? HDCP isn't critical, as I can always use AnyDVD if needed. Casual gaming would be nice, like WoW, but again isn't critical.

(I've viewed the G35 thread, but all I can get out of it is that they don't work? Am I missing something?)

renethx

02-27-08, 01:14 PM

AbMagFab

LPCM 7.1 audio is supported by the upcoming GeForce 8200/8300 too. But there is no solution for DDL/DTS Connect over HDMI. Some believe that the upcoming ATI Radeon HD 4000 series graphics cards support HD audio over HDMI, but there is no confirmation. The following HT Slider's post summarizes the current situation well:

There are only 4 methods for an HTPC running PowerDVD to provide 5.1+ channels of audio from a TrueHD or multi-channel PCM audio track:

1. The ultimate solution is 8-channel HDMI audio. Currently there are very few motherboards/soundcards that support this and there are still issues with all known (to me) HTPC solutions that try to do this.

2. The next best is to use a high end 8-channel analog audio card such as the Asus Xonar. Some of the higher end sound cards have exceptional pre-amp capabilities, often better than even relatively high end audio amplifiers.

3. The next best is to use a motherboard or sound card that supports DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live. One advantage to this is the simplicity in a single connection between the HTPC and ampliier. The main downside to this option is it only supports a maximum of 6-channels of audio. The sound quality remains very good, especially with DTS Connect (IMO) and the DTS or DD5.1 is sent to the amplifier through SPDIF. Some will argue that the audio quality is not as good as 2 and this can be true, but the difference is typically difficult to perceive if you have a good amplifier. Selecting a motherboard with DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live when building an HTPC can be considerably less expensive than going with option 2.

4. If you have a standard motherboard or lower end sound card, the only way to get more than stereo is to use the analog outputs instead of SPDIF. Unfortunately this solution typically leaves a lot to be desired as far as audio quality is concerned.

If you are looking for high quality audio, methods 1 through 3 all work well, but may require a hardware upgrade.
GIGABYTE GA-M78UM-S2H GeForce 8300 (9200) motherboard perhaps supports:

- 8 channel LPCM audio over HDMI
- DTS Connect via ALC889a (hence not over HDMI, but over S/PDIF)
- The (second) best DAC of ALC889a among the onboard audio codecs (close to X-Fi Xtreme Audio).

BrundleFly

02-27-08, 03:24 PM

There is another thread on here that is talking about Nvidia Vs. ATI....for the most part it seems everyone is leaning towards ATI? I mentioned in that thread that I have been doing research for about a month now and this is the first time I have seen ATI take the lead...any thoughts??

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1000089

Smitty2k1

02-27-08, 07:26 PM

AbMagFab

LPCM 7.1 audio is supported by the upcoming GeForce 8200/8300 too. But there is no solution for DDL/DTS Connect over HDMI.

What would be a use for DDL/DTS connect via hdmi?

AbMagFab

02-27-08, 07:56 PM

What would be a use for DDL/DTS connect via hdmi?

If, for example, my AVR pre-pro features got disabled with LPCM 7.1 like they do with analog multichannel. Then I could remix down to DD5.1/DTS 6.1 and take advantage of all the careful speaker calibration in my pre-pro, that I lose when using analog multichannel input, and possibly with this LPCM 7.1 input over HDMI.

And having it all over a single HDMI connection to eliminate another cable, and possibly synchronization, just like with every other device that doesn't necessarily require HDMI audio (like the TivoHD/S3, all DVR's, most game systems, etc.).

Mascot

02-28-08, 02:38 AM

renethx

02-28-08, 02:44 AM

X-Fi Xtreme Audio supports up to 92kHz, but all the other upper models support up to 192kHz.

Moondust

02-28-08, 03:58 AM

Yes, ofcourse. Unfortunately most of the x264's "out there" are not. But I guess more will be... hopefully! :)
Since a few weeks more and more 1080p encodes are released complying with the L4.1 standard. The scene has noticed de incompatbility issue. I think we can expect only L4.1 compliant encodes within a few months.

zelster

02-28-08, 04:13 AM

As just bought IP35-PRO (HTPC) yesterday, I wonder if this RAM is compatibile with it:

Transcend JetRam 2GB DDR2 800 JM800QLU-2G

I'd like to put 2 of them (4GB, two slots) into IP35-PRO.

Anybody tested? Or experience any difficulties?

Thx in advance and BR

Mascot

02-28-08, 05:36 AM

X-Fi Xtreme Audio supports up to 92kHz, but all the other upper models support up to 192kHz.

Can u recommend me a internal soundcard with 192 khz 7.1 support and a line in for my wii??

renethx

02-28-08, 06:21 AM

Can u recommend me a internal soundcard with 192 khz 7.1 support and a line in for my wii??
Sorry, you are correct, all X-Fi cards support stereo 192kHz, but 8 channel 92kHz.

Bluegears b-Enspirer, ASUS Xonar, or Auzentech Auzen X-FI Prelude 7.1. But check specs before buying it.

HT Slider

02-28-08, 10:13 AM

Regarding soundcards I've done a little research and it seems (according to a fresh test in a swedish magazine) it doesnt have any settings for speaker distance/delay that is a must for any home theater setup, or has thing changed since the test (a couple of months old) with new software/drivers??

The best choice seems to be the creative xi-fi series, allthough it seems they only deliver 8 channels in 96 khz? is this correct, shouldnt it be 192khz?

(we're talking about what the soundcard delivers now, issues in power dvd etc we all know about, but that's not related to my question above..)

Unless the driver specifically doesn't support Vista, Vista provides a substantial set of audio compensation tools, including disatance/delay, eq, etc. and it even allows closed loop calibration using a quality microphone placed at the listening position. From what I've read (6+ months ago), Vista's room/speaker calibration is supposed to work quite well.

Note that I haven't personally tried it though. I chose to select a motherboard that supports DTS connect and my amplifier (Yamaha RX-V2400) performs all of the room/speaker compensation (and it sounds very good - but only supports 6-channels unless I use Dolby IIx).

osmonix

02-28-08, 01:24 PM

Hi,

First off thanks for the great thread

Are there any good options availabe for a silent ATI Radeon HD 3xxx or GeForce 9600 GT card?

I'm planning on using the SilverStone LC20M case if that makes a difference for space issues.

Also could someone point me to a list of recommended online shops for parts? I've mostly been looking at Newegg and would like to do some price comparisons.

Thanks!

renethx

02-28-08, 01:48 PM

Hi,

First off thanks for the great thread

Are there any good options availabe for a silent ATI Radeon HD 3xxx or GeForce 9600 GT card?

I'm planning on using the SilverStone LC20M case if that makes a difference for space issues.

Thanks!
It's hard to find fanless cards of the above models:

- HD 3870: PowerColor (not available in US?)
- HD 3850: Sapphire ("http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102720')
- 9600 GT: None

You'd better use a retail cooler such as Zalman VF900 if noise is your concern. But first try to control fan speed with a utility like RivaTuner.

greggplummer

02-28-08, 02:06 PM

Sorry, you are correct, all X-Fi cards support stereo 192kHz, but 8 channel 92kHz.

Bluegears b-Enspirer, ASUS Xonar, or Auzentech Auzen X-FI Prelude 7.1. But check specs before buying it.

The fact that some soundcards support 192 KHz for 2 channel and 96 KHz for multichannel shouldn't be a big problem now or into the future.

Nobody that I know of, is using a sample rate higher than 96 KHz for multichannel audio. And even for stereo content it is very rare for anyone to encode up to 192 KHz.

renethx

02-28-08, 02:09 PM

Yeah, exactly I thought that ...

osmonix

02-28-08, 05:52 PM

It's hard to find fanless cards of the above models:

- HD 3870: PowerColor (not available in US?)
- HD 3850:
- 9600 GT: None

You'd better use a retail cooler such as Zalman VF900 if noise is your concern. But first try to control fan speed with a utility like RivaTuner.

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll skip the passive cooling then.

Another quick question:
The mid-range ATX recommendation for motherboards has the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R (rev. 2.0) At newegg I see a GIGABYTE mb (I'd post a link but apparently I'm not allowed yet) but I am not sure if it is the rev 2.0 (it doesn't say rev 2.0). Is that the correct mb? Since I can't post links to verify, could someone post a link to newegg (or another if newegg actually doesn't carry that board)?

Thanks again

HT Slider

02-28-08, 08:40 PM

It's hard to find fanless cards of the above models:

- HD 3870: PowerColor (not available in US?)
- HD 3850: Sapphire ("http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102720')
- 9600 GT: None

You'd better use a retail cooler such as Zalman VF900 if noise is your concern. But first try to control fan speed with a utility like RivaTuner.

I don't know how the 3XX0 series cards compare, but I was pleasantly surprised to find that the genuine ATI HD 2600XT card is virtually silent in a well vented case. The loudest components in my HTPC are the hard drives and by a large margin (and the hard drives are not exactly loud).

Prior to the genuine ATI card I tried a couple of non-functional (DXVA wasn't reliable) Diamond HD 2600XT cards and these things were extremely loud and obnoxious. These cards are much louder than the hard drives and have about 1/3 the heat sink and 1/2 the diameter fan compared to the ATI cards.

Maybe they use the same cooler on the 3XX0 cards (I could tell if I saw a picture).

jyzz

02-28-08, 08:49 PM

For the low power and heat conscious builders:

1) Video Card power draw
I found a few interesting power consumption figures for current generation graphics cards from oversea forums and posted them in the Radeon 3450 thread. Although I have not yet verified every figure from the provided review source, I thought these data may also be useful for potential HTPC builders here as well:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13248998#post13248998

2) HDD recommendations
i didn't go through this thread lately, but hope OP could include the WD AACS / AAVS GP products in the rec list in future revisions. Aside from the obvious slower access time due to 5400rpm, these drives are really ideal for HTPC data storage.

renethx

02-29-08, 12:20 AM

The mid-range ATX recommendation for motherboards has the GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R (rev. 2.0) At newegg I see a GIGABYTE mb (I'd post a link but apparently I'm not allowed yet) but I am not sure if it is the rev 2.0 (it doesn't say rev 2.0). Is that the correct mb? Since I can't post links to verify, could someone post a link to newegg (or another if newegg actually doesn't carry that board)?
The motherboard section is out of date. Please look at Recommended Systems. The current mb is GA-EP35-DS3R (rev. 2.1) and Newegg.com sells it (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128086).

brickie

02-29-08, 01:02 AM

Well. been a long time since i posted in the htpc area, but it's time to upgrade my htpc so here goes..

What I need to accomplish is x264 and mkv playback, and bluray and hddvd would be a plus.My 2 tvs that will get this machine are a 50" plasma or 65" toshiba rptv..Just not sure which one,maybe both.My 65" only has component inputs for HD so hence my choice to stick with component. I want to use component outs for picture quality.Not interested in hdmi at this time..Right now receiver is a Pioneer 5.1 so SPIDF is enough,for now.Will go 7.1 later...Probably using analog outs when it's time.Noise,and etc..is not a concern.My concern is FLAWLESS as possible playback!

I'd prefer an intel setup but whatever works.Will be recycling my full size blk ATX case for this.Worked great for my current htpc. I scored a PNY 8600 GT 256mb video card to get this going for $35 new.Was this a good choice for what i'm after? I can get another one if you guys think I should do sli for maximum performance.I guess if you guys could recommend a motherboard or two that would be great.If this ideo card is not appropriate plz say and i'll just flip it..

I hope this is enough info to get started if not just ask me any questions please.

So much has changed since i built my current setup(P4 2.4)..Am i correct that if I use anydvd hd this whole HDCP issue won't matter?

thanks in advance

brickie

renethx

02-29-08, 01:22 AM

brickie

Please look at Recommended Systems. Any of mATX/ATX recommended systems (except for the low-end mATX system which will be updated soon) will work for you.

Mascot

02-29-08, 02:51 AM

Renethx: You've seen my thoughts of components for my rig before in this forum. Now I'm considering going bananas and looking at the cheapest x4 phenom CPU...

What as silent as possible cooling would be needed for this CPU in antec fusion 430 case?? Is passive cooling impossible with chassis fans running low? Or would the new noctua CPU cooler with the 92 mm fan on running low be resonable together with 2 x Noctua 120 mm 800 rpm's in the case??

Also, about solving the problem with the extremely hot north bridge on the Gigabyte RS780 mobo, would a chipset cooler do the job there (without direct applied fan to it) or are you forced to put a 40 mm fan near it you think??

renethx

02-29-08, 03:10 AM

Mascot

Noctua CPU cooler may not fit Fusion 430. The best cooler for this case is Scythe Ninja Mini. As the two 120mm exhaust fans are right next to the heatsink (this picture (http://hosting.superhighoutput.com/yamahasho/Computer/HTPC/IMG_7075.jpg)), you don't need the CPU fan.

Putting a 40mm fan on the NB heatsink is perhaps the safest way. Or choose another mb with an adequate heatsink.

brickie

02-29-08, 08:05 AM

Renethx, thnks for reply.Will do just that. I assume the video card was a decent choice for HD playback?Looking at cost of sli boards, and they aren't cheap!So if 1 video card is enough will go that route.

Also was I correct that the hdcp issue wouldn't be one if I use Anydvd HD?

With that video card what would be the lowest processor recommended for smooth 1080p x264 playback?

Thanks for help...I feel like a preschooler all over!

brickie

Uncle Dirt-Nap

02-29-08, 08:18 AM

I just posted this tho the Panasonic TH50PX75U owners thread, but I'm thinking now that the HTPC thread might be a better place...

I have a Panasonic TH50PX75U that's being fed single over dvi-hdmi cable from a dedicated HTPC with a Radeon HD 2600 pro video card and an LG HD-DVD/Blu-Ray drive running Vista-32 while I wait for the first release of XBMC. I'm having a few issues that I would appreciate any input I could get, and this is my first foray into this type of setup so if the questions sound stupid I apologize in advance:

1. Since home theater functions are all I intend and I have an MCE remote that will handle everything I would prefer not to even have a mouse attached. However when playing any content with no mouse attached the mouse pointer keeps flashing onto the center of the screen during chapter changes and other things: any way to make the mouse pointer go away all together?

2. The native resolution of the set is 1366x768 and the closest resolution of the card is 1360x768, which I can live with but I'm wondering: what's the best way to get 1 to 1 pixel mapping?

3. The issue I'm most perplexed by is that when I play Blu-Ray discs my picture is showing in a letter box format (large black bars across the top and bottom) I've seen others with the same problem on stand alone players being told to set their player to 16x9 screen format, but I see no such way to make a change like this in the settings for Power DVD, the video card properties ... not anywhere on the PC. What am I missing? And if it makes any difference the HD channels from my FIOS TV and stand alone DVD player format fine.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Moondust

02-29-08, 10:08 AM

2. The native resolution of the set is 1366x768 and the closest resolution of the card is 1360x768, which I can live with but I'm wondering: what's the best way to get 1 to 1 pixel mapping?
I use Powerstrip 3.75 to set custom resolutions en frequencies. Works great. You can even set profiles which are easily switchable. Are you absolutely sure that 1360x768 is the limit your videocard can output? maybe Powerstrip can add the missing 6 pixels.

AbMagFab

02-29-08, 10:16 AM

Question (I also asked in the PDVD thread, but figured here might be better):

My HTPC is currently set to 1920x1080x60hz. This is fine, and I don't get any tearing on 24fps BD/HDDVD or on 30fps 1080i material.

However - I'd really like it if my PC could dynamicall switch to the native frequency of the source material, at a minimum for 24fps stuff. Ideally it would even switch the resolution to match the source material (720p, 480i/p, etc.), and let my projector do all the upconversion. My video card supports all these resolutions and frequencies.

I use PDVD for all my video viewing.

Is there anyone doing this currently (switching between frequencies/resolutions based on source material when played back)?

I basically want a "Native" on my HTPC, just like I have on my Tivo, instead of running "fixed" like I am now.

ctiq21

02-29-08, 10:20 AM

^
Power strip might be able to help. It can change resolutions before opening certain programs etc.

Uncle Dirt-Nap

02-29-08, 10:22 AM

Are you absolutely sure that 1360x768 is the limit your videocard can output? maybe Powerstrip can add the missing 6 pixels.

I'm not sure what you mean by limit; the card can do higher resolutions but I've been operating under the assumption (perhaps incorrect) that ideally you want your video card setting to match your display's native resolution.

Is that not the case? Like I said first time I've mucked around with a HTPC.

Iteki

02-29-08, 10:46 AM

For those looking for a PC Blu-Ray player....$129 at NewEgg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106227

Moondust

02-29-08, 11:35 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by limit; the card can do higher resolutions but I've been operating under the assumption (perhaps incorrect) that ideally you want your video card setting to match your display's native resolution.

Is that not the case? Like I said first time I've mucked around with a HTPC.
With limit I mean the highest resolution your videocard can output. If your card can go higher than 1360x768 in theory, I guess 1360x768 is the closest standard resolution to the resolution of your display (1366x768). In this case Powerstrip 3.75 can probably help you out, since Powerstrip can make your videocard output any resolution you want up to the limit of the videocard. Never tested this though since I use it solely for changing the frame rate (frequency) that my videocard outputs to match the HD source (to get rid of judder). Hope this helps you out.

Moondust

02-29-08, 11:46 AM

My HTPC is currently set to 1920x1080x60hz. This is fine, and I don't get any tearing on 24fps BD/HDDVD or on 30fps 1080i material.
I wouldn't know how this frequency could not cause judder. Maybe it's there but you haven't noticed it. I think it's more apparent on large screens. You are only judderfree if you display a movie in the same frequency (or a multiple) of the source material.

Is there anyone doing this currently (switching between frequencies/resolutions based on source material when played back)?

Yes, I am using Powerstrip 3.75 to adjust the frame rate that's outputted by the videocard to the frame rate of the source. I can switch profiles to meet every situation (24fps for HD, 25fps for PAL, 30fps for NTSC). Works like a charm. Highly recommended. BUT, make sure your display can handle the frequency you set. I don't know what happens when your display can't handle it.

Uncle Dirt-Nap

02-29-08, 11:53 AM

Never tested this though since I use it solely for changing the frame rate (frequency) that my videocard outputs to match the HD source (to get rid of judder). Hope this helps you out.

Gave a look see at Powerstrip here on my work computer and it appears it'll do what I need. Thanks for the suggestion.

Smitty2k1

03-01-08, 06:51 PM

For those looking for a PC Blu-Ray player....$129 at NewEgg

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106227

Oh sad, it can't burn DVD's or CD's.... hmmm but sooo tempting...

Patrick Collins

03-02-08, 02:54 AM

I posted this in the normal thread section with no response. Maybe it's more appropriate here. :confused:

Hello again,
Been away for awhile. But now it's time to upgrade my home theater. I have a Silverstone LC 14 that needs to be gutted. At the same time I'm going to replace my Outlaw pre/pro 950 (keeping the Outlaw 7 channel 1400 watt amp) and Sony SACD 5 disc. I'll be adding the Oppo 980 for the SACD through HDMI part. But also so my wife can play regular DVDs on her own. She won't touch my HTPC. The HTPC will output to my Mits 62" through a new Integra DTC 9.8 pre/pro (HDMI 1.3a) if I ever can find one. Sound will be through 7 NHTs and a Sunfire sub. TV from DirecTv HR20 and rooftop antenna (lots of HD in the San Jose area). I'm controlling it all with a new URC Home Theater MX810 (love it), except for the HTPC as it stands.

Now for the HTPC upgrades:

1. ASUS P5E VM HD motherboard (couldn't find a full size V)
2. Intel Q6600 processor
3. MS Vista Ultimate 32 bit -150 bucks
4. LG GGW-H20L Blue Ray burner/ HD DVD player
5. Corsair DDR2 ram 4 gig (CM2X2048-6400C5DHX)

I'm going to try the bare motherboard at first. I want to see how it does a/v on it's own. But mostly I'm waiting for the shake out with the sound issue. Six months from now I can see lots of options for Dolby True HD etc. But I'm building now!!! I especially want to see what Asus is about to come out with for sound cards.

So what do you think of the choices?
What are your opinions on the audio and video side?
Suggestions for killer software? (I learned my lessons on the current HTPC. Junked it up with stuff, including Autocad and other design software, careless surfing, not staying on top of malware updates etc. I'm taking a minumalist approach this time.)

Oh, and where can I find an Integra DTC 9.8 NOW?

I'm glad you guys are here. At work I feel like I'm speaking a foreign language.

AbMagFab

03-02-08, 07:47 AM

I wouldn't know how this frequency could not cause judder. Maybe it's there but you haven't noticed it. I think it's more apparent on large screens. You are only judderfree if you display a movie in the same frequency (or a multiple) of the source material.

Yes, I am using Powerstrip 3.75 to adjust the frame rate that's outputted by the videocard to the frame rate of the source. I can switch profiles to meet every situation (24fps for HD, 25fps for PAL, 30fps for NTSC). Works like a charm. Highly recommended. BUT, make sure your display can handle the frequency you set. I don't know what happens when your display can't handle it.

I've got a 110" display and SOny VW60. Is it possibly my VW60 is compensating and doing some sort of 3:2 or reverse 3:2 pulldown? I'm very sensitive to judder, and I'm sure I'm not gettiing any.

My display can handle all sorts of frequencies. I guess this is a manual thing? I'll check it out. I'd love PDVD to support some sort of "Native" functionality, but oh well.

jimwhite

03-02-08, 08:56 AM

1. ASUS P5E VM HD motherboard (couldn't find a full size V)
If you haven't purchased this yet, I'd suggest you hold off a little while for the nVidia 8300 boards to arrive....

:cool:

Patrick Collins

03-02-08, 10:42 AM

Jim,
Is that because you think it' a better board in general or specifically deals with the HD audio better?
Oh, and what have you heard about any dates for the 8300?

Speqtre

03-02-08, 10:57 AM

Jim,
Is that because you think it' a better board in general or specifically deals with the HD audio better?
Oh, and what have you heard about any dates for the 8300?

I think you're going to see alot of new stuff announced Tuesday, March 4th at CEBIT. Just hold off a little bit longer for a bunch of 8200 boards and the newest round of Athlons.

Looks like the 8300 boards may come out in April if they can solve the heat problems.

CardNation

03-02-08, 12:34 PM

Any suggestions on reputable retailers for cases?

Newegg has a good selection but, for items such as the Antec models they are about $15-20 high and shipping usually around $15-20 as well.

Speqtre

03-02-08, 01:53 PM

Any suggestions on reputable retailers for cases?

Newegg has a good selection but, for items such as the Antec models they are about $15-20 high and shipping usually around $15-20 as well.

Don't want to break any rules, but since none of the forum sponsors that I know of sell cases: try axiontech, directron, and zipzoomfly for better prices, even after shipping.

rizorith

03-02-08, 05:23 PM

Connection method depends on each video card and motherboard (if the video card has an internal S/PDIF connector, if the mb has an S/PDIF port in the back panel, etc.). So please tell us the model number of your video card and sound card/motherboard.

I bought the guts last night so now I have a parts list:

Abit IP35-E motherboard with built in sound
Lite-On blu-ray drive
MSI NX8800GT 512M OC

I've read some posts that suggest that it's better connecting sound out on the sound card using component cables rather than s/pdif. Now I know HDMI is pointless but why wouldn't I use the one optical cable instead of a bunch of analog cables?

I'm still choosing my soundsystem but leaning towards the z5500 logitechs or one of the dirt cheap refurb onkyo's. Onkyo has 2 optical ins and the logitech has 1 optical and one dig. coax.

Lastly, I should still use a dvi-i to hdmi cable to send the video feed to from the video card to the plasma, correct?

renethx

03-02-08, 08:48 PM

rizorith

03-03-08, 12:59 AM

The main reason for choosing S/PDIF is use a (usually) better DAC of AVR instead of the onboard audio codec DAC (and less clutter of cables of course). But using S/PDIF may sometimes result only in stero. Unless your plasma has a DVI in, you need to use a DVI-to-HDMI adapter or cable.

I was going to use a dvi-hdmi cable. How do I know if I will only get stereo?

HT Slider

03-03-08, 01:51 AM

I bought the guts last night so now I have a parts list:

Abit IP35-E motherboard with built in sound
Lite-On blu-ray drive
MSI NX8800GT 512M OC

I've read some posts that suggest that it's better connecting sound out on the sound card using component cables rather than s/pdif. Now I know HDMI is pointless but why wouldn't I use the one optical cable instead of a bunch of analog cables?

I'm still choosing my soundsystem but leaning towards the z5500 logitechs or one of the dirt cheap refurb onkyo's. Onkyo has 2 optical ins and the logitech has 1 optical and one dig. coax.

Lastly, I should still use a dvi-i to hdmi cable to send the video feed to from the video card to the plasma, correct?

Does the motherboard support DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live?

If you want to keep the costs down and still have fully functional multi-channel audio with excellent sound quality and are willing to "only" have 5.1 channels, then a motherboard that supports DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live makes a lot of sense.

If it does not have DDL or DTS Connect, and you are trying to use an OEM version of PowerDVD Ultra you'll probably not be very happy.

The OEM version does not support decoding of DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1. To play back these two formats, it does support direct pass-through of the digital stream through the SPDIF port on the motherboard (with everything configured to use SPDIF).

Unfortunately some Blue-ray and HD-DVDs do not have DTS or DD5.1. Instead, these have Dolby TrueHD and/or other audio formats. PowerDVD Ultra will decode these into multi-channel audio, but these cannot be sent through SPDIF without DTS Connect or DD5.1. Instead, you'll only hear 2-channel audio. You can manually change the audio driver, PowerDVD Ultra and your amplifier/receiver all over to analog connections, but the audio quality will not be top notch (plus it is a pain to keep changing the settings back and forth).

On top of that, if you try instead to use analog outputs all the time, and play a movie with DTS or DD5.1, you'll again only hear 2-channels of audio because the OEM version of PowerDVD Ultra doesn't support multi-channel decoding of DTS or DD5.1 (so once again you'll need to manually switch back everything to SPDIF to play the movie).

The 2-channel audio issue also occurs when trying to use SPDIF with any other software (like Media Player) with any audio formats that isn't DTS and DD5.1. Again, you'll need to switch back to analog in order to get multi-channel.

Basically (since what I wrote was rather confusing...) there are two real options if you want high quality sound:

motherboard with Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect:
- use SPDIF always and with DDL or DTS Interactive enabled, you'll always hear excellent audio quality - but you'll "only" get 5.1 channels.

motherboard without DDL or DTS Connect:
- purchase a quality sound card and use 5.1 or 7.1 analog outputs all the time.
- and purchase PowerDVD Ultra Retail in order to get the additional Dolby and DTS codecs required to be able to send up to 7.1 channels of audio to the sound card.

Note that without DDL or DTS Connect that you need both the sound card and the retail version of PowerDVD Ultra. In reality you could also purchase just a sound card that supports DDL or DTS Connect (and use one of them), but at that point if you're not going to go all out for 7.1 analog, you would have been better off to purchase a motherboard with DDL or DTS Connect and sell your existing motherboard.

My advice, considering the limitations with PowerDVD Ultra OEM and audio, is to always select a motherboard that supports DTS Connect or DD5.1 when building an HTPC. The other option if you want the "ultimate" audio solution today is to purchase, along with the basic components, a high end audio card that supports 7.1 channels and PowerDVD Ultra retail.

Don't get stuck with an incomplete solution with only 2-channels of audio working 1/2 the time...

rizorith

03-03-08, 12:24 PM

Does the motherboard support DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live?

If you want to keep the costs down and still have fully functional multi-channel audio with excellent sound quality and are willing to "only" have 5.1 channels, then a motherboard that supports DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live makes a lot of sense.

If it does not have DDL or DTS Connect, and you are trying to use an OEM version of PowerDVD Ultra you'll probably not be very happy.

The OEM version does not support decoding of DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1. To play back these two formats, it does support direct pass-through of the digital stream through the SPDIF port on the motherboard (with everything configured to use SPDIF).

Unfortunately some Blue-ray and HD-DVDs do not have DTS or DD5.1. Instead, these have Dolby TrueHD and/or other audio formats. PowerDVD Ultra will decode these into multi-channel audio, but these cannot be sent through SPDIF without DTS Connect or DD5.1. Instead, you'll only hear 2-channel audio. You can manually change the audio driver, PowerDVD Ultra and your amplifier/receiver all over to analog connections, but the audio quality will not be top notch (plus it is a pain to keep changing the settings back and forth).

On top of that, if you try instead to use analog outputs all the time, and play a movie with DTS or DD5.1, you'll again only hear 2-channels of audio because the OEM version of PowerDVD Ultra doesn't support multi-channel decoding of DTS or DD5.1 (so once again you'll need to manually switch back everything to SPDIF to play the movie).

The 2-channel audio issue also occurs when trying to use SPDIF with any other software (like Media Player) with any audio formats that isn't DTS and DD5.1. Again, you'll need to switch back to analog in order to get multi-channel.

Basically (since what I wrote was rather confusing...) there are two real options if you want high quality sound:

motherboard with Dolby Digital Live or DTS Connect:
- use SPDIF always and with DDL or DTS Interactive enabled, you'll always hear excellent audio quality - but you'll "only" get 5.1 channels.

motherboard without DDL or DTS Connect:
- purchase a quality sound card and use 5.1 or 7.1 analog outputs all the time.
- and purchase PowerDVD Ultra Retail in order to get the additional Dolby and DTS codecs required to be able to send up to 7.1 channels of audio to the sound card.

Note that without DDL or DTS Connect that you need both the sound card and the retail version of PowerDVD Ultra. In reality you could also purchase just a sound card that supports DDL or DTS Connect (and use one of them), but at that point if you're not going to go all out for 7.1 analog, you would have been better off to purchase a motherboard with DDL or DTS Connect and sell your existing motherboard.

My advice, considering the limitations with PowerDVD Ultra OEM and audio, is to always select a motherboard that supports DTS Connect or DD5.1 when building an HTPC. The other option if you want the "ultimate" audio solution today is to purchase, along with the basic components, a high end audio card that supports 7.1 channels and PowerDVD Ultra retail.

Don't get stuck with an incomplete solution with only 2-channels of audio working 1/2 the time...

I appreciate your response. I've actually asked on a few occasions specifically what sound I want on my MB's onboard audio and you're the first to give specifics other than "good". Too bad I just bought a motherboard right before you answered this. It has On board 7.1 CH HD Audio CODEC Realtek '97. It's the abit ip35-e that was reccomended by a bunch of people for a tower case (i'm building a hybrid gaming/htpc).

Anyways, I actually have the full version of powerdvd so the only real question is if I should return the MB or if I should buy a sound card. It sounds to me like buying a sound card still has some problems so I'd like to go with a new motherboard. Is there any way to be sure that the one I have doesn't have DDL or DTS? The manual is sort of flaky.

Also, any suggestions on a good motherboard with DDL or DTS? Keep in mind I don't need a micro and I am going to be overclocking.

renethx

03-03-08, 01:03 PM

Is there any way to be sure that the one I have doesn't have DDL or DTS? The manual is sort of flaky.
The best way is to look at my mb database (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=94708).

If you choose a new mb with DTS Connect, then you will choose GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4, $180 (the cheapest mb for Intel supporting DTS Connect, apart from GA-G33M-S2H). How much did you pay for IP35-E? $70 after rebate? Then buying a sound card is another option.

- Auzentech XPlosion 7.1, $80
- Bluegears b-Enspirer, $100

Both support DTS Connect and DDL. Analog sound is much (?) better than ALC889A of GA-EP35-DS4, let alone ALC888 of IP35-E.

rizorith

03-03-08, 01:38 PM

The best way is to look at my mb database (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=94708).

Thanks although I'm not sure what I'm even looking for. The motherboard I have has AC888 but I don't know if that's what I want. Which ACxxx has DTS?

renethx

03-03-08, 01:44 PM

Thanks although I'm not sure what I'm even looking for. The motherboard I have has AC888 but I don't know if that's what I want. Which ACxxx has DTS?
Look at the "Features" column (right next to "Codec"). Choose GA-EP35-DS4 if you don't know what to look for.

HT Slider

03-03-08, 01:59 PM

Also, any suggestions on a good motherboard with DDL or DTS? Keep in mind I don't need a micro and I am going to be overclocking.

I am very pleased with my motherboard, but it did cost quite a bit more than the one you picked up.

Mine is the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4. It is supposed to be excellent for overclocking (I haven't really tried much - I took the Q6600 up to 3.0 GHz for a quick test with rock solid stability, but run it at the default EIST 1.6 GHz at low voltage 24/7; it auto climbs to 2.4 GHz at standard voltage as required).

It is a well optioned motherboard so you pay for that. It includes 8 SATA ports, eSATA, hardware RAID, DTS Connect, dual BIOS, dual PCIe video card slots, high quality capacitors, aggressive north/southbridge heatpipe cooling, ultra stable voltages for overclocking, etc.

There are other, newer boards out there that might be a better choice price-wise, but this is an excellent HTPC and/or gaming motherboard.

renethx

03-03-08, 02:10 PM

rizorith

03-03-08, 02:54 PM

rizorith

If you have not bought a processor yet, then the AMD platform is perhaps a better choice right now.

- CPU: AMD Athlon 4850e 2.5GHz 45W, $89 or Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Black Edition 2.6GHz 65W, $100
- MB: GIGABYTE 780G mb or GIGABYTE GeForce 8200/8300 mGPU mb, $80

4850e, 780G, 8200/8300 are all available widely in March. GIGABYTE 780G supports:

- UVD (meaning you don't need a video card for BD/HD DVD)
- DTS Connect via ALC889A

GIGABYTE 8300 supports

- PureVideo HD Gen 3
- 8-channel LPCM over HDMI
- DTS Connect via ALC889A (unconfirmed)

I have bought a processor - Intel e8400 but I am on a budget so I'm hoping for a MB that I can use with the better audio. Any suggestions other than the Gigabyte you've both suggested? It's going for 180 which is literally 3X the price of the one I originally chose. I don't have a use for RAID, SLI etc.

todd trammell

03-03-08, 03:01 PM

renethx:

have already
nsk2480
mini ninja
4gbx2 adata
5000+blk
thermalright hr-05/ifx (need or not?)
vista ultimate (os)

MUST BUY
no BUL-RAY now
samsh-s203n ($29)
or lh-204al-11c? (silver)
hdd? 500gb-640gb-750gb
MOBO???
780G
8200
8300

S/PDI OUT

WOULD LIKE COMPOSITE OUT
THANKS
TODD

renethx

03-03-08, 03:07 PM

I have bought a processor - Intel e8400 but I am on a budget so I'm hoping for a MB that I can use with the better audio. Any suggestions other than the Gigabyte you've both suggested? It's going for 180 which is literally 3X the price of the one I originally chose. I don't have a use for RAID, SLI etc.
Sorry, $180 is the cheapest mb. You may find ALC888 analog is not terribly bad ... Realtek ALC888 onboard audio - Amazing! (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=2160445&enterthread=y) (it's opinions from ordinary folks).

renethx

03-03-08, 03:10 PM

todd trammell

It's hard to recommend a mb right now because none of them is released yet. Please wait for a while.

AbMagFab

03-03-08, 03:13 PM

todd trammell

It's hard to recommend a mb right now because none of them is released yet. Please wait for a while.

A while? A while??? I thought I only had to wait until tomorrow!

renethx

03-03-08, 03:19 PM

Even if many mb are released tommorrow, it takes a while to nail down the best. And the favorite GIGABYTE GA-M78UM-S2H may be delayed ...

AbMagFab

03-03-08, 03:21 PM

Even if many mb are released tommorrow, it takes a while to nail down the best. And the favorite GIGABYTE GA-M78UM-S2H may be delayed ...

That's the 8300 - but the 8200 should be out tomorrow, right?

renethx

03-03-08, 03:24 PM

Which Hdd?

(os) On #1

Storage On #2
You don't need two seperate HDD. Create a 50GB partition for OS and create another for data when installing OS.

WD WD7500AAKS or WD10EACS

renethx

03-03-08, 03:25 PM

That's the 8300 - but the 8200 should be out tomorrow, right?
Yeah, but I prefer DTS Connect. :)

AbMagFab

03-03-08, 03:31 PM

Yeah, but I prefer DTS Connect. :)

I just want 8-channel LPCM! I don't plan to game on the machine, and my pre-pro can do whatever matrixing I need.

I wonder when they will show up on newegg - midnight tonight? Or do I have to wait even longer?!?!?

rizorith

03-03-08, 03:31 PM

The best way is to look at my mb database (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=94708).

If you choose a new mb with DTS Connect, then you will choose GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS4, $180 (the cheapest mb for Intel supporting DTS Connect, apart from GA-G33M-S2H). How much did you pay for IP35-E? $70 after rebate? Then buying a sound card is another option.

- Auzentech XPlosion 7.1, $80
- Bluegears b-Enspirer, $100

Both support DTS Connect and DDL. Analog sound is much (?) better than ALC889A of GA-EP35-DS4, let alone ALC888 of IP35-E.

Now you got me. So even if i do get the ga-ep35-ds4 the sound isn't that good? Would an external sound card like the Auzentech xplosion be better? And are you saying even with all this I'm still better off with analog connections?

Just for reference, I'm going to get a cheap onkyo htib or logitech z5500 so I'm certainly not at the high-end spectrum anyways.

renethx

03-03-08, 03:40 PM

Now you got me. So even if i do get the ga-ep35-ds4 the sound isn't that good? Would an external sound card like the Auzentech xplosion be better? And are you saying even with all this I'm still better off with analog connections?

Just for reference, I'm going to get a cheap onkyo htib or logitech z5500 so I'm certainly not at the high-end spectrum anyways.
GA-EP35-DS4 's S/PDIF should be as good as that of a sound card. But DAC of a sound card is definitely better than the onboard audio codec. GA-EP35-DS4 comes with a fancy chipset cooler, more SATA ports with RAID, two PCIe x16 slots (and of course DTS Connect via ALC889a). What you need is only DTS Connect, then adding a sound card is clearly a better choice. In this case you don't have to hurry. Try ALC888 first.

todd trammell

03-03-08, 03:48 PM

info (1gb or 2gb)

swapfile.

renethx

03-03-08, 03:52 PM

^ this post?

todd trammell

03-03-08, 03:57 PM

money is getting short
other hdd less >$100

renethx

03-03-08, 04:02 PM

SAMSUNG HD501LJ (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=10005376&prodlist=celebros) or WD WD5000AAKS (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101259&prodlist=celebros)

todd trammell

03-03-08, 04:07 PM

Thanks,
Todd

Software?

todd trammell

03-03-08, 04:14 PM

links:
how to partition hdd.
or software

renethx

03-03-08, 04:19 PM

links:
how to partition hdd.
or software
Vista includes a partition utility. You don't have to do anything fancy at first befor installation. Just follow the instruction during the installtion (it's pretty intuitive), you are asked if you want to create partitions.

rizorith

03-03-08, 04:27 PM

GA-EP35-DS4 's S/PDIF should be as good as that of a sound card. But DAC of a sound card is definitely better than the onboard audio codec. GA-EP35-DS4 comes with a fancy chipset cooler, more SATA ports with RAID, two PCIe x16 slots (and of course DTS Connect via ALC889a). What you need is only DTS Connect, then adding a sound card is clearly a better choice. In this case you don't have to hurry. Try ALC888 first.

So what processes the sound signals if I am playing a ripped blu-ray disc on my computer? Would it be the soundcard or my receiver (currently looking at onkyo sr800 htib)? I'll mostly be playing blu-rays, dvds, ripped blu-rays and whatever I end up downloading. I'll try using the onboard sound I have and see what happens.

renethx

03-03-08, 04:30 PM

So what processes the sound signals if I am playing a ripped blu-ray disc on my computer? Would it be the soundcard or my receiver (currently looking at onkyo sr800 htib)? I'll mostly be playing blu-rays, dvds, ripped blu-rays and whatever I end up downloading. I'll try using the onboard sound I have and see what happens.
S/PDIF - receiver, Analog - sound card.

risk1994

03-03-08, 05:46 PM

4850e, 780G, 8200/8300 are all available widely in March. GIGABYTE 780G supports:

- UVD (meaning you don't need a video card for BD/HD DVD)
- DTS Connect via ALC889A

GIGABYTE 8300 supports

- PureVideo HD Gen 3
- 8-channel LPCM over HDMI
- DTS Connect via ALC889A (unconfirmed)

Does this meand that I'll need a video card if I go with the 8200/8300 solution rather than the 780G? Im definetely looking to build on one of these and dont want to have to purchase a discreet video card but want to have the BD option.

HT Slider

03-03-08, 06:05 PM

Sorry, $180 is the cheapest mb. You may find ALC888 analog is not terribly bad ... Realtek ALC888 onboard audio - Amazing! (http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=29&threadid=2160445&enterthread=y) (it's opinions from ordinary folks).

If you read on in that review though, you'll see that he is actually using SPDIF to send the audio to his Z5500 speakers, not analog.

I've tried the analog output on my GA-P35-DS4, which has the higher end audio Realtek ALC889A and I found there was a big difference between it and DTS Connect and SPDIF. The ALC888 is likely quite similar, and it won't be better.

This isn't to say that the analog sounded truly horrible though. I am comparing essentially the analog DAC and pre-amp capabilities on a $180 motherboard to a $2000 Yamaha amplifier's DAC and pre-amp capabilities (when using DTS Connect) plus using about $4000 worth of speakers to listen to it (prices when purchased). Still, there is a big difference in audio quality - the difference is not subtle.

I've also got a set of Logitech Z5500 speakers on the PC in the study (typing at it now) and in my opinion they don't sound all that great, regardless of whether I use DTS Connect, DDL, DD5.1, or DTS. These speakers sound much worse when using the analog outputs on the Turtle Beach Riviera sound card in that PC. I've read several reviews on the Z5500 claiming they sound fantastic, so I guess I must be overly picky.

This whole thing really depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If you want excellent audio quality, I would stay away from analog outputs on a motherboard or on a cheap sound card. DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live, always (in my experience) produces much higher quality audio.

With a regular motherboard with SPDIF out, it can still produce very high quality 2-channel audio through the SPDIF as well as high quality 6-channel audio when the source material includes DD5.1 or DTS tracks. The problem is any other 6+ channel source, since you then have to reconfigure everything for analog to get 6+ channel audio and drop down to lower quality sound.

You could always stick with the motherboard you have, using analog audio outputs (or SPDIF with only 2-channel if the source isn't DD5.1 or DTS) for now, and when you have the cash, invest in a $200+ mid/high end sound card (such as the Asus Xonar) and ultimately end up with top quality 7.1 analog. Although I can't confirm this first hand, this should provide even better quality audio than the GA-P35-DS4 motherboard's DTS Connect. Many of these higher end cards support DTS connect too, so you can go pure digital if you prefer at that point. Reviews of the Asus Xonar suggest that it truly does produce excellent audio quality through the analog outputs (front 2-channels especially; the other 6 channels are a step down and use lower end op-amps, but still sound very good).

Another option would be to stick with your motherboard and purchase a cheap soundcard that supports DTS Connect. It will likely have poor quality analog output, but the DTS Connect through SPDIF (digital) will use the DACs and pre-amp in your receiver/amplifier, so it will sound essentially as good as your audio equipment can (except you'll only get 6-channels, not 8-channels; which is fine by my standards).

HT Slider

03-03-08, 06:19 PM

But DAC of a sound card is definitely better than the onboard audio codec.

Is it the DAC itself that causes the reduced audio quality, or is it whatever is used as an op-amp after the DAC? Does the ALC 888/889 even use post DAC amplifiers on the analog outputs?

I really don't know how these Realtek ALC 888/889 codec chips work. How can a single chip replace all of the electronics used in a normal multi-channel DAC and pre-amp?

A regular, higher end amplifier uses a high end DAC to produce analog audio and this is then amplified using a quality op-amp for each channel so it can be fed to the main amplifier. To do this, there is quite a bit of electronics required, including voltage conditions, filters, separate op-amps for each channel, etc. The higher end sound cards also use this same structure and a lot of the card's real estate is used by the analog circuits.

How is a motherboard's audio wired? Realtek advertises that the ALC 889 has something like a 110 dB signal to noise ratio and that number sounds good - but why exactly do the analog outputs sound so crappy compared to a good sound card or to the higher end DACs and op-amps in an external amplifier?

AbMagFab

03-03-08, 06:54 PM

Is it the DAC itself that causes the reduced audio quality, or is it whatever is used as an op-amp after the DAC? Does the ALC 888/889 even use post DAC amplifiers on the analog outputs?

I really don't know how these Realtek ALC 888/889 codec chips work. How can a single chip replace all of the electronics used in a normal multi-channel DAC and pre-amp?

A regular, higher end amplifier uses a high end DAC to produce analog audio and this is then amplified using a quality op-amp for each channel so it can be fed to the main amplifier. To do this, there is quite a bit of electronics required, including voltage conditions, filters, separate op-amps for each channel, etc. The higher end sound cards also use this same structure and a lot of the card's real estate is used by the analog circuits.

How is a motherboard's audio wired? Realtek advertises that the ALC 889 has something like a 110 dB signal to noise ratio and that number sounds good - but why exactly do the analog outputs sound so crappy compared to a good sound card or to the higher end DACs and op-amps in an external amplifier?

It's whatever is converting to analog, which if you're using analog out from your PC, is the DAC on the PC (MB or sound card). Then you're bypassing all but the amp on your AVR.

renethx

03-03-08, 07:10 PM

Does this meand that I'll need a video card if I go with the 8200/8300 solution rather than the 780G? Im definetely looking to build on one of these and dont want to have to purchase a discreet video card but want to have the BD option.
No, PureVideo HD is as good as UVD and you don't need a discrete video card.

cgmmny

03-03-08, 07:33 PM

First off, being a noob, this is exactly what I needed to begin building my HTPC. Thanks!!

I believe that your mid-range ATX setup is perfect for me. However, I do have a couple of questions. I will use 80% of the setup you suggested for the mid-range system (I will probably change the HTPC case and upgrade the memory). I will also upgrade the graphics card to a GeForce 9600 GT. I noticed that the GeForce has DVI outputs which I know that I can use a DVI to HDMI cable to get the video to my projector or 63 Samsung DLP. However, my Denon receiver does not have HDMI ports. It does however have optical ports. So how would I get the sound from htpc to my receiver?

Also, will this set-up be adequate enough to stream HD content (720p and 1080p) to other locations in my house. I'm not worried about bandwidth as I will more than likely used wired connections. But I do have two other areas that I would like to make this content available. I will more than likely stream video via Nero Media Home Server through my XBOX360 and some other type of media streamer.

PS...I plan to use Vista Home as my OS and will play content on my main display through either Nero Showtime or Windows Media Player 11. Are these the best media players to send video (mainly HD content) to my primary display?

Your thoughts?

rizorith

03-03-08, 08:19 PM

AbMagFab

03-03-08, 08:24 PM

To sum up, if I use the cheap abit board without dts connect and connect via s/pdif i'll only sometimes get 5.1 sound. If I get a motherboard/soundcard with dts connect and use s/pdif i should always get 5.1?

I still don't understand when i wouldn't get 5.1 on this motherboard without a soundcard.

Also you suggested I wouldn't get anything about 5.1 which is fine since I'll have a 5.1 system at best.

You won't get 5.1 if:
a) The source audio is only TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA
b) There is no DD/DTS soundtrack
c) You don't have DTSConnect or DDLive

(c) is true with the MB you are pushing.

So for example, with "Immortal Beloved" in BD, it only has a TrueHD 5.1 soundtrack. You'll only get 2-channel stereo over SPDIF.

But you'd get all 6 channels over 6- or 8-channel analog, and you'd get all 6-channels (recompressed) if you had a MB or sound card with DDLive or DTSConnect, since the audio chip could re-encode the TrueHD 5.1 into DD/DTS 5.1.

renethx

03-03-08, 08:27 PM

cgmmny

Connect the optical S/PDIF port on the mb's rear panel to the receiver via a TOSLINK optical cable. HDMI needs not to carry audio. Your system is good enough to stream HD contents.

cgmmny

03-03-08, 08:34 PM

cgmmny

Connect the optical S/PDIF port on the mb's rear panel to the receiver via a TOSLINK optical cable. HDMI needs not to carry audio. Your system is good enough to stream HD contents.

Perfect. Thanks!!!

renethx

03-03-08, 08:55 PM

You won't get 5.1 if:
a) The source audio is only TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA
b) There is no DD/DTS soundtrack
c) You don't have DTSConnect or DDLive
I am confused. DTS-HD Master Audio contains the DTS core stream, so you should get DTS from DTS-HD Master Audio. Is this wrong? From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio):

It is an extension of DTS which, when played back on devices which do not support the Master Audio extension, degrades to a 1.5 Mbit/s "core" track which is lossy.

According to DTS-HD White Paper, the DTS-HD Master Audio contains 2 data streams, the original DTS core stream and the additional "residual" stream, which contains the "difference" between the original signal and the lossy compression DTS core stream.

rizorith

03-03-08, 09:20 PM

You won't get 5.1 if:
a) The source audio is only TrueHD or DTS-HD/MA
b) There is no DD/DTS soundtrack
c) You don't have DTSConnect or DDLive

(c) is true with the MB you are pushing.

So for example, with "Immortal Beloved" in BD, it only has a TrueHD 5.1 soundtrack. You'll only get 2-channel stereo over SPDIF.

But you'd get all 6 channels over 6- or 8-channel analog, and you'd get all 6-channels (recompressed) if you had a MB or sound card with DDLive or DTSConnect, since the audio chip could re-encode the TrueHD 5.1 into DD/DTS 5.1.

Your last sentence states that I would get 6 channels (recompressed) if I had a MB or sound card with DDlive or DTSconnect. Is that over s/pdif?

HT Slider

03-03-08, 10:19 PM

Your last sentence states that I would get 6 channels (recompressed) if I had a MB or sound card with DDlive or DTSconnect. Is that over s/pdif?

Correct.

The latest audio formats are actually non-lossy and bit-perfect to the studio masters. PowerDVD (or whatever), extracts the multiple audio channels and passes it digitally to the audio driver (from what I've read, due to digital rights issues with audio and Blue-ray, PowerDVD actually reduces the bandwidth first and passes lower quality PCM audio). If you are using a motherboard with DTS Connect, at that point, the audio chip compresses and encodes it into a digital 1.5 Mbps DTS stream that is then output through the SPDIF port for the amplifier to decode and play.

Although on the surface it sounds like DTS Connect is throwing away a ton of audio detail (and it is), when you actually compare 1.5 Mbps DTS to the original source, it is often found to be indistinguishable in blind audio tests. The audio quality produced by DTS Connect, when a quality amplifier is used is extremely good - especially when many mid/higher end amplifiers perform digital pre-processing that includes room and speaker correction. These amplifiers generally are not able to perform room and speaker compensation on analog inputs.

Still, the ultimate setup (that is working today) is to use a very high end sound card and use the 8-channel analog outputs combined with a high end amplifier, high end speakers, and a room that does not require room and speaker correction/compensation.

For the rest of us mortals, DTS Connect works well and is easier on the wallet. It also means you simply connect a single audio cable between the HTPC and the amplifier and once configured, the audio always provides at least 5.1 channels of quality sound regardless of the 5.1+ audio source (you only get more than 5.1 when passthrough mode is used with DTS-ES, Dolby Digital Surround EX or other 5.1+ formats - note passthrough is performed automatically with most sound drivers and PowerDVD, etc.).

HT Slider

03-03-08, 10:22 PM

It's whatever is converting to analog, which if you're using analog out from your PC, is the DAC on the PC (MB or sound card). Then you're bypassing all but the amp on your AVR.

Saying "its whatever is converting to analog" isn't exactly the answer I was looking for.

If you look at what it takes to produce high quality analog audio, ready to be feed to a main amplifier, you'll see there is typically an awful lot of "stuff" to do this job. The "stuff" includes 8+ channels worth of high quality DACs, lots of RF shielding, lots of voltage/power conditioning/power filtering components, 8+ discrete op-amps, not to mention a significant amount of PCB space and all the bits and pieces to support/drive the op-amps, etc.

Take a look at this review of the Asus Xonar D2 sound card (it reviews very well BTW):

http://aphnetworks.com/reviews/asus_xonar_d2

Other cards that might be worth looking at include the Auzentech Auzen X-Fi Prelude 7.1 ($200) and Auzen X-Plosion 7.1 ($100)

If you look at a typical motherboard on the other hand, I think there is essentially a single chip doing pretty much everything related to audio. Very little or no special voltage/power condition/power filtering components, no RF filters, etc. I don't even see discrete op-amps or separate DACs anywhere.

Then you read the specs on the Realtek audio chips and they claim an incredible 110 dB signal to noise ratio for its audio output. You'd think with a spec like that, these analog outputs should be close to on par with the Asus Xonar D2 - but they are definitely not. The motherboard's analog output doesn't sound anything like what you get out of a decent sound card.

My non-educated guess is that the problem with motherboard analog outputs is not the DAC or Realtek chip at all, but instead what comes after it and how clean the voltages are that are driving it. I'm totally guessing, but I assume the chip really needs a good op-amp after it in order to provide a clean 1V peak to peak analog output.

I guess it doesn't really matter for the purpose of this thread. What matters is that in order to get quality analog sound we need a lot more than simply a Realtek 888/889A chip (or other high end HD audio chip) on a motherboard.

rizorith

03-03-08, 10:36 PM

Correct.

The latest audio formats are actually non-lossy and bit-perfect to the studio masters. PowerDVD (or whatever), extracts the multiple audio channels and passes it digitally to the audio driver (from what I've read, due to digital rights issues with audio and Blue-ray, PowerDVD actually reduces the bandwidth first and passes lower quality PCM audio). If you are using a motherboard with DTS Connect, at that point, the audio chip compresses and encodes it into a digital 1.5 Mbps DTS stream that is then output through the SPDIF port for the amplifier to decode and play.

Although on the surface it sounds like DTS Connect is throwing away a ton of audio detail (and it is), when you actually compare 1.5 Mbps DTS to the original source, it is often found to be indistinguishable in blind audio tests. The audio quality produced by DTS Connect, when a quality amplifier is used is extremely good - especially when many mid/higher end amplifiers perform digital pre-processing that includes room and speaker correction. These amplifiers generally are not able to perform room and speaker compensation on analog inputs.

Still, the ultimate setup (that is working today) is to use a very high end sound card and use the 8-channel analog outputs combined with a high end amplifier, high end speakers, and a room that does not require room and speaker correction/compensation.

For the rest of us mortals, DTS Connect works well and is easier on the wallet. It also means you simply connect a single audio cable between the HTPC and the amplifier and once configured, the audio always provides at least 5.1 channels of quality sound regardless of the 5.1+ audio source (you only get more than 5.1 when passthrough mode is used with Dolby Digital IIx or other 5.1+ formats - note passthrough is performed automatically with most sound drivers and PowerDVD, etc.).

Thanks, I think I got it. I think I'd rather buy a soundcard and use the MB I have since the price is the same and I can move it to a future computer. There is no disadvantage in conveniece/quality to using another soundcard as opposed to a 889a built in one, right? Any suggestions on what to get?

I'll probably try the crappy built (888) in first and see how often I find out I'm only getting 2.1 sound. It sounds like in this case I should hook up via s/pdif since there will still be many cases where I get 5.1 - it's just a few instances where I won't and in those cases I will either need to get a soundcard or deal with it.

HT Slider

03-04-08, 02:57 AM

Thanks, I think I got it. I think I'd rather buy a soundcard and use the MB I have since the price is the same and I can move it to a future computer. There is no disadvantage in conveniece/quality to using another soundcard as opposed to a 889a built in one, right? Any suggestions on what to get?

I haven't personally looked hard at sound cards.

I mentioned a few in my last post that are probably worth looking at. I would definitely recommend reading the audio section of this thread also.

I'll probably try the crappy built (888) in first and see how often I find out I'm only getting 2.1 sound. It sounds like in this case I should hook up via s/pdif since there will still be many cases where I get 5.1 - it's just a few instances where I won't and in those cases I will either need to get a soundcard or deal with it.

Keep in mind it is only "crappy" when you switch to analog. The SPDIF will produce excellent sound.

You are correct that most of the time you'll get 5.1 audio - at least you will if you select the DTS or DD5.1 sound track on the movies you want to watch.

The problem occurs only with a few of the newer HD-DVD and Blue-ray movies where they only include the higher audio formats and no DD5.1 or DTS. With this you'll only get 2.0, not 2.1 though - unless of course you temporarily switch everything over to analog to watch those particular movies. The one place you'll always see this 2-channel problem is if you watch any WMV-HD disks (actually if your amp supports WMA, you'll probably be OK here too, but most amps do not support WMA). These WMV-HD disks are less popular these days, but some of us still have them.

Actually there are yet a few other places you'll find it dropping down to 2-channel audio. One is if you download any movie/TV show that uses multi-channel mpeg-1 audio. The other place is if you want to play almost any video game. There are a few games that support DD5.1 and/or DTS, but most simply produce multi-channel PCM, which will again only provide 2-channel unless you switch to analog.

renethx

03-04-08, 03:38 AM

Unofficial Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread.

- If the main audio track is LPCM, then the probability is very low (< 3%). The majoriy include DD 5.1 as the secondary soundtrack.

- If the main audio track is DTS-HD Master Audio, the probability is 0% as DTS-HD MA includes DTS as the core stream.

- If the main audio track is Dobly TrueHD, the probability is high (> 50%). But the number of movies with Dolby TrueHD is very small (only ~30 titles right now). Perhaps that's the main reason why nobody has complained to me. :) Spider-Man 3 is a typical example wich inlcudes LPCM 5.1 as the secondary audio so that you can't get surround sounds from S/PDIF without DTS Connect or DDL.

- One third of the BD movies still have DD 5.1 or DTS as the main soundtrack.

Laserfan

03-04-08, 10:24 AM

It's so hard to search for what I want, and renethx and you other guys are so far ahead of me in keeping-up w/PC hardware, I just hafta ask:

I don't want an HTPC per se, just a video processing machine i.e. Q6600 and loads of RAM. I currently have a P4 PC w/x1950Pro AGP video card I bought not too long ago:

1. Is there a "best" mobo w/AGP interface that I should consider, or

2. If you think I should abandon the 1950, what Quad-capable mobo WITH BUILT-IN GRAPHICS should I consider

I know, I should bite the bullet and get a complete new setup w/PCIe if I want HD/BD-capable output, but hoping there's a cheaper solution for me! Any ideas would be most welcome...

anywhereanytime

03-04-08, 12:16 PM

When will the rush of announcements happen ?

AbMagFab

03-04-08, 12:38 PM

When will the rush of announcements happen ?

A couple have happened (like the 4850e), but they aren't available anywhere.

All this pre-hype, and then they can't make the products available. I think I might just have to get a G35 and screw all this unsubstantiated marketing garbage.

HwyXingFrog

03-04-08, 12:49 PM

Looks like the new 780g chipset looks very promising, may have to replace my Gigabyte 680g and still use my BE-2350. And then buy a blu-ray drive.

There's a brand new article on Tom's Hardware (I can't post the link until I have more than 3 posts). I mostly read the forums, I haven't posted much before. I just think this is a big deal, especially for this thread.

It seems that 6 SATA ports are also common on the new 780g chipset.

HwyXingFrog

03-04-08, 12:50 PM

AbMagFab

03-04-08, 12:52 PM

HwyXingFrog

03-04-08, 04:14 PM

But isn't the 780g still better than the 690g's already mentioned in the low end making a low end system not require a pci-express video card to play 1080p Blu-Ray.

HwyXingFrog

03-04-08, 04:22 PM

The 780G doesn't support 8-channel LPCM over HDMI (apparently it only supports 2-channel LPCM over HDMI). Makes it kinda useless for a HTPC.

Or would you say that a low end that already had a 690g setup should completely hold off for the intel 45G solution?

This is a serious question because I started off with a 690g without being completely educating myself on it.

ilovejedd

03-04-08, 05:07 PM

I don't want an HTPC per se, just a video processing machine i.e. Q6600 and loads of RAM. I currently have a P4 PC w/x1950Pro AGP video card I bought not too long ago:

1. Is there a "best" mobo w/AGP interface that I should consider, or

2. If you think I should abandon the 1950, what Quad-capable mobo WITH BUILT-IN GRAPHICS should I consider

I know, I should bite the bullet and get a complete new setup w/PCIe if I want HD/BD-capable output, but hoping there's a cheaper solution for me! Any ideas would be most welcome...

Define "best" mobo. P35-based mobos seems to be the best overclockers for the price but the downside is they don't have integrated graphics.

Dunno how much your budget is but I just built the following for my file server/media encoding rig:
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R - $130 (8 SATA ports, no integrated gfx)
Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2160 - $75 (stopper, currently @ 2.40 stock cooler)
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 3450 PRO - $50 (cheap card w/h.264 hardware decoding, basically just so I can get a display)
WINTEC AMPX 4GB (2GBx2) DDR2 800 CL5 - $85 (cheap and fairly overclockable)

I was holding out for a cheap Penryn quad, but now, I'm back to my original plan of Q6600 which I'll buy when I get my tax refund. If you don't need that many SATA ports, the GA-P35-DS3L can be had for $90. The Abit P35-E, I think is $60 after rebate. There's a slew of good P35 boards available for under $100.

Not sure where you're located but Fry's often has combo mobo/cpu deals. I picked up an ECS 945GCT-M/Celeron 430 combo for $50 for a low-power internet surfer. They had the same mobo+Q6600 combo for $270 (Q6600 was $279.99 from Newegg at the time). Mobo's crap (no overclocking whatsoever) but it works pretty stable for me. Didn't have any problems posting, either. If you're not overclocking, the combo is worth considering since mobo's basically free.

On to the 780G news, the GIGABYTE board is already available on Newegg but I'm more interested in the MSI MS-7411 (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/674/3/).

HwyXingFrog

03-04-08, 05:15 PM

Define "best" mobo. P35-based mobos seems to be the best overclockers for the price but the downside is they don't have integrated graphics.

Dunno how much your budget is but I just built the following for my file server/media encoding rig:
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R - $130 (8 SATA ports, no integrated gfx)
Intel Pentium Dual-Core E2160 - $75 (stopper, currently @ 2.40 stock cooler)
SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 3450 PRO - $50 (cheap card w/h.264 hardware decoding, basically just so I can get a display)
WINTEC AMPX 4GB (2GBx2) DDR2 800 CL5 - $85 (cheap and fairly overclockable)

I was holding out for a cheap Penryn quad, but now, I'm back to my original plan of Q6600 which I'll buy when I get my tax refund. If you don't need that many SATA ports, the GA-P35-DS3L can be had for $90. The Abit P35-E, I think is $60 after rebate. There's a slew of good P35 boards available for under $100.

Not sure where you're located but Fry's often has combo mobo/cpu deals. I picked up an ECS 945GCT-M/Celeron 430 combo for $50 for a low-power internet surfer. They had the same mobo+Q6600 combo for $270 (Q6600 was $279.99 from Newegg at the time). Mobo's crap (no overclocking whatsoever) but it works pretty stable for me. Didn't have any problems posting, either. If you're not overclocking, the combo is worth considering since mobo's basically free.

On to the 780G news, the GIGABYTE board is already available on Newegg but I'm more interested in the MSI MS-7411 (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/674/3/).

That's crazy, I've never seen anything like that before. So, if I understand correctly, it has the potential to completely take the amplifier out of the mix?

Laserfan

03-04-08, 09:08 PM

Not sure where you're located but Fry's often has combo mobo/cpu deals. I picked up an ECS 945GCT-M/Celeron 430 combo for $50 for a low-power internet surfer. They had the same mobo+Q6600 combo for $270 (Q6600 was $279.99 from Newegg at the time)...Yep we have a Fry's and in fact I got my last combo there some 3+ yrs ago. I guess I will just haunt the Fry's and Newegg specials until I see something w/Quad on it.

renethx

03-04-08, 10:13 PM

jimwhite

03-04-08, 10:52 PM

if anyone is interested in my 3-day-used P5E-V HDMI full-ATX G35 motherboard, it's on the bay... wouldn't work with my reciever/display combo...

:cool:

Jeremiah

03-05-08, 12:51 AM

What do you mean by "video processing"? If it's just video playback, then my short answer is buy:

- Athlon 4850e 2.5GHz 45W, $89
- GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H, $100
- DDR2-800 2GB kit, $40

I have some 720p and 1080p .mkv H.264 encoded video files I would like to be able to play without skipping. Will this setup handle the majority of the .mkv H.264 720p and 1080p encoded video files? I realize there are many different ways to encode the video right now which may make a one size fits all solution impossible. I'm just looking for a reasonably affordable solution, but a solution that is still powerful enough for all my video decoding needs. I could care less about gaming, this would be HTPC only.

Thanks.

-Jeremiah

renethx

03-05-08, 01:28 AM

I have some 720p and 1080p .mkv H.264 encoded video files I would like to be able to play without skipping. Will this setup handle the majority of the .mkv H.264 720p and 1080p encoded video files?
Yes.

rizorith

03-05-08, 03:33 AM

Unofficial Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread.

- If the main audio track is LPCM, then the probability is very low (< 3%). The majoriy include DD 5.1 as the secondary soundtrack.

- If the main audio track is DTS-HD Master Audio, the probability is 0% as DTS-HD MA includes DTS as the core stream (is that correct?)

- If the main audio track is Dobly TrueHD, the probability is high (> 50%). But the number of movies with Dolby TrueHD is very small (only ~30 titles right now). Perhaps that's the main reason why nobody has complained to me. :) Spider-Man 3 is a typical example wich inlcudes LPCM 5.1 as the secondary audio so that you can't get surround sounds from S/PDIF without DTS Connect or DDL.

- One third of the BD movies still have DD 5.1 or DTS as the main soundtrack.

What are the other instances when i should/shouldn't expect 5.1 sound over s/pdif without dts connect or ddl? I see blu-ray but what about hd-dvd or .mk4 etc?

renethx

03-05-08, 09:13 AM

What are the other instances when i should/shouldn't expect 5.1 sound over s/pdif without dts connect or ddl? I see blu-ray but what about hd-dvd or .mk4 etc?
S/PDIF supports only 2-channel LPCM, DD5.1 and DTS. If the source does not contain a DD 5.1 or DTS soundtrack, you can't get surround sounds.

Unofficial HD DVD Audio and Video Specifications Thread

Laserfan

03-05-08, 09:27 AM

What do you mean by "video processing"? If it's just video playback, then my short answer is buy:

- Athlon 4850e 2.5GHz 45W, $89
- GIGABYTE GA-MA78GM-S2H, $100
- DDR2-800 2GB kit, $40Actually, I meant "crunching" ie. editing of video and conversion between formats, and NOT display (not a priority). Hence to re-use my x1950pro or opt for internal graphics & not a fancy videocard at all...

AbMagFab

03-05-08, 09:47 AM

rizorith

03-05-08, 01:49 PM

S/PDIF supports only 2-channel LPCM, DD5.1 and DTS. If the source does not contain a DD 5.1 or DTS soundtrack, you can't get surround sounds.

Unofficial HD DVD Audio and Video Specifications Thread

This seems to contradict what slider said. Or am I misinterpreting what he wrote:

"For the rest of us mortals, DTS Connect works well and is easier on the wallet. It also means you simply connect a single audio cable between the HTPC and the amplifier and once configured, the audio always provides at least 5.1 channels of quality sound regardless of the 5.1+ audio source (you only get more than 5.1 when passthrough mode is used with Dolby Digital IIx or other 5.1+ formats - note passthrough is performed automatically with most sound drivers and PowerDVD, etc.)."

HT Slider

03-05-08, 04:00 PM

This seems to contradict what slider said. Or am I misinterpreting what he wrote:

"For the rest of us mortals, DTS Connect works well and is easier on the wallet. It also means you simply connect a single audio cable between the HTPC and the amplifier and once configured, the audio always provides at least 5.1 channels of quality sound regardless of the 5.1+ audio source (you only get more than 5.1 when passthrough mode is used with Dolby Digital IIx or other 5.1+ formats - note passthrough is performed automatically with most sound drivers and PowerDVD, etc.)."

renethx was replying to the question about not having DTS Connect or Dolby Digital Live.

If you do have one of these, you'll always get 5.1 from any 5.1 source.

renethx

03-06-08, 06:28 AM

Actually, I meant "crunching" ie. editing of video and conversion between formats, and NOT display (not a priority). Hence to re-use my x1950pro or opt for internal graphics & not a fancy videocard at all...
Then reusing X1950 Pro does not make a sense. The combination of Q6600 and a decent & latest motherboard with IGP is perhaps a better choice. Some good IGP motherboards are:

- GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L (VGA only), $67
- ASUS P5K-VM (VGA only), $110
- Intel DG33TL (VGA & DVI; no overclocking options), $120
- GIGABYTE GA-73PVM-S2H (VGA, DVI & HDMI; single-channel memory controller), $70

juGGaKNot

03-06-08, 08:52 AM

renethx

03-06-08, 08:57 AM

renethx:

I need component out now, but will be getting plasma sometime.
ga-ma69gm-s2h+hd 3450
or 780g mobo(?) + video card =compoment
see post #1412
your opinions needed.
Some say there will be 780G mb with component out in May, but there is no confirmation (read this post). If you add a discrete graphics, the only advantages of 780G over 690G are the support for HT 3.0 (for Phenom processor) and slight improvements of southbridge (6 SATA ports and 14 USB). If you don't play Blu-ray movies now,

- GA-MA69GM-S2H

is enough. Add a better grahics card later (HD 4000 Series come in June?). Or buy

- GA-MA78GM-S2H + HD 3450/3470 (with component out).

HD 3470 is apparently better in deinterlacing. But you'd better wait until the mess around the 780G chipset revisions is cleared up.

CardNation

03-06-08, 09:34 AM

I just wanted to drop in a BIG thanks!

I'm in the middle of my first build, I purchased most of my components based on your recommendations and have been extremely pleased thus far.

Keep up the good work.

Laserfan

03-06-08, 09:35 AM

Then reusing X1950 Pro does not make a sense. The combination of Q6600 and a decent & latest motherboard with IGP is perhaps a better choice. Some good IGP motherboards are...Thanks renethx, I appreciate your advice & help! :)

renethx

03-06-08, 09:48 AM

The PC :

http://www.shopit.ro/plm/a5fc4f/

The case Thermaltake VE2000BWS Armour Lcs ( because of : Bays HDD = 10, Bays CD-ROM = 11 )

+

Lian Li EX-23B Internal HDD Kit (turns 2 x 5.25″ bay into 3 x 3.5″ bay) x 5 for better cooling, $100.

= 25 HDD bays + 1 DVD-RW bay.

13 x 750 GB HDD + 4 SAS HDD = 17, 8 more left.

+

HBA: HighPoint RocketRAID 2522 8-port eSATA RAID Controller PCIe x8 Card supporting Port Multiplier, $335.

Questions : is the PC k ? the SAS drives are for game capture ( 10 seconds 128 GB ) the HDD must be 750 because 1000 GB to much $$$ and 500 too little space.

The LCD is MVA 1920x1080 ( the rezolution that i capture game footage ) and the MB has 3 PCI-E 16X one for VGA one for RAID controler and one just in case.

Is the Sirtec HPC-1000-G14C overkill ? quad + 8 GB ram + 25 HDD + 8800 GTS + 24 LCD and DVD-RW ( blue-ray on PS3 )
First I am not sure if RocketRAID 2522 supports SAS drives. The specs mentions only SATA drives although 88SX6042 is a SCSI controller. A review is here (http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/highpoint/2522/).

Assuming it works, a rough estimate of power consumption is:

Q6600: 95W
780i mb: 50W
RAM: 20W
Video: 130W
17 HDDs: 12W x 17 = 204W
DVD drive: 25W
RAID controller + sound card: 40W (?)
Total: 564W

So 1000W may be ovekill. BTW RocketRAID 2522 supports staggered spin up so that power consumption at spin up time should be low.

AbMagFab

03-06-08, 09:54 AM

First I am not sure if RocketRAID 2522 supports SAS drives. The specs mentions only SATA drives although 88SX6042 is a SCSI controller. A review is here (http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/highpoint/2522/).

Assuming it works, a rough estimate of power consumption is:

Q6600: 95W
780i mb: 50W
RAM: 20W
Video: 130W
17 HDDs: 12W x 17 = 204W
DVD drive: 25W
RAID controller + sound card: 40W (?)
Total: 564W

So 1000W may be ovekill. BTW RocketRAID 2522 supports staggered spin up so that power consumption at spin up time should be low.

Only if you have drives that support that, too. For example, Seagate SATA drives don't support staggered spin up, but WD drives do.

I have the RR 2220, with 8 1TB WD's on it, but before I had Seagates. I have an 850W PSU, which is fine. Before I had a 550W PSU, and with the Seagates, I would get periodic drive failures (really just low power issues).

So if you can afford the 1000W, go for it. It's not too far off, especially if you have a PCIe graphics card with separate power.

renethx

03-06-08, 10:19 AM

Only if you have drives that support that, too. For example, Seagate SATA drives don't support staggered spin up, but WD drives do.

I have the RR 2220, with 8 1TB WD's on it, but before I had Seagates. I have an 850W PSU, which is fine. Before I had a 550W PSU, and with the Seagates, I would get periodic drive failures (really just low power issues).
Hmmm... Seagate has claimed the support for staggered spin-up in their SATA drives since 2005.

Interface Technology (http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?locale=en-US&name=Interface_Technology&vgnextoid=11176dfcf53ad010VgnVCM100000dd04090aRCRD)

I haven't tested Seagate drives with a RocketRAID controller, so I can't say for sure. Which Seagate drives did you use?

juGGaKNot

03-06-08, 10:39 AM

First I am not sure if RocketRAID 2522 supports SAS drives. The specs mentions only SATA drives although 88SX6042 is a SCSI controller. A review is here (http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/highpoint/2522/).

Assuming it works, a rough estimate of power consumption is:

Q6600: 95W
780i mb: 50W
RAM: 20W
Video: 130W
17 HDDs: 12W x 17 = 204W
DVD drive: 25W
RAID controller + sound card: 40W (?)
Total: 564W

So 1000W may be ovekill. BTW RocketRAID 2522 supports staggered spin up so that power consumption at spin up time should be low.

1000 it is, 9800x2 if needed.

the raid controler is wrong, i see now!

so :

need a raid controler for 21 HDD ( 8 port no ? ) + a raid controler for RAID 0 SAS ( 4x36 GB SAS 15.000 )

what should i search for ?

renethx

03-06-08, 10:53 AM

so :

need a raid controler for 21 HDD ( 8 port no ? ) + a raid controler for RAID 0 SAS ( 4x36 GB SAS 15.000 )

what should i search for ?
I don't know. The two controllers must be able to coexit, but are there such SATA and SAS controllers? First of all do you really need SAS drives for gaming? It's beyond my knowledge anyway.

cgmmny

03-06-08, 02:18 PM

juGGaKNot

03-06-08, 02:37 PM

I don't know. The two controllers must be able to coexit, but are there such SATA and SAS controllers? First of all do you really need SAS drives for gaming? It's beyond my knowledge anyway.

well i dont game at all .. i just make movies .. now working on mine and i want huge qualitu BUT

one frame = 8 MB , 1600 frames/second x 8 = 12.8 GB ! i need something with huge transfer rate, so 4 SAS 15.000 drives in raid is close no ? 4 raptor ones are good to BUT 10.000 not 15.000 ...

i know its stupid, i just want to do it like this !

osmonix

03-06-08, 04:22 PM

This will be my first computer build and I'm trying to decide what to do about the operating system.

First, what operating system is recommended? Vista Home Premium?

Secondly I see that most online shops only seem to carry OEM versions. I'm new to this, but that means that I can only install it once right? If I buy decide to upgrade certain parts I'd have to rebuy the operating system??? Is this an issue for most people? I've heard that you can workaround this by saying your mb crashed or something. The retail versions you can reuse correct? Basically I'm looking for opinions on buying the OEM vs the retail, the price difference seems pretty huge.

Thanks

zangmann

03-06-08, 05:16 PM

I don't know exactly how the versions work, but the whole point of this guide is to just build something that will work with HD and forget it correct? I'll never understand the desire to always tweak and upgrade and change things. Once it works, I'm done. Machine boots right into VMC and you play your movie/music/show and send the machine back into standby. Hardware failure is another issue, but MS is pretty lenient with replaced parts and there is always a manual activation option if there are problems.

I've been running a system based on the previous guide and have yet to run into any issues, wife loves watching her shows in HD.

risk1994

03-06-08, 08:35 PM

First, what operating system is recommended? Vista Home Premium?Thanks

This is a good question, I would really prefer to stick with XP for my 780g build. Am I losing anything by using xp?

harktheshark

03-06-08, 09:52 PM

OK experts...I need your help. Would like to watch ripped movies on my plasma via my HTPC.

What I have:

TV Panasonic TH=59PX600U
PC Abit IL9 Pro MB
Vista Home Premium
Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS
Geforce 6600GT

What do I need to upgrade so that this can be accomplished? Also, my TV is about 75-100ft away (I know its a long way). My current graphics card has 2 DVI outs...one for my local monitor and one I was hoping to use for my plasma.

Id rather run just one HDMI cable.

Has anyone done this? Will it work?

Thanks

setherd

03-06-08, 11:18 PM

1000 it is, 9800x2 if needed.

the raid controler is wrong, i see now!

so :

need a raid controler for 21 HDD ( 8 port no ? ) + a raid controller for RAID 0 SAS ( 4x36 GB SAS 15.000 )

what should i search for ?

I have used 3ware controllers before (not recently) they had great tech support and were rock solid. They cost a little more but I think they are worth it.

They're got 16 port models and SAS ones too.
http://www.3ware.com/products/serial_ata2-9000.asp

edit: they have a 24port one too...wow!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116046

renethx

03-07-08, 12:01 AM

Hello again renethx,

If you decide to go with one of your Micro ATX systems, would the GeForce 9600 GT graphics card fit?

Also, what sites are you getting your prices. The ones I visit seem to have much higher pricing.....
Yes. For physical fit in NSK2480, see this thread.

I usually search prices with Google Product Search and cite the lowest price from reputable retailers.

renethx

03-07-08, 12:08 AM

renethx

03-07-08, 12:13 AM

Karyudo

03-07-08, 01:20 AM

The one place you'll always see this 2-channel problem is if you watch any WMV-HD disks (actually if your amp supports WMA, you'll probably be OK here too, but most amps do not support WMA). These WMV-HD disks are less popular these days, but some of us still have them.

Actually there are yet a few other places you'll find it dropping down to 2-channel audio. One is if you download any movie/TV show that uses multi-channel mpeg-1 audio. The other place is if you want to play almost any video game. There are a few games that support DD5.1 and/or DTS, but most simply produce multi-channel PCM, which will again only provide 2-channel unless you switch to analog.

Now, I'm no computer genius, but what about AC3Filter? Can't that take multichannel WMA and convert it on the fly to DD 5.1?

juGGaKNot

03-07-08, 01:21 AM

I have used 3ware controllers before (not recently) they had great tech support and were rock solid. They cost a little more but I think they are worth it.

They're got 16 port models and SAS ones too.
http://www.3ware.com/products/serial_ata2-9000.asp

edit: they have a 24port one too...wow!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116046

SATA 2 :

9550SXU-8LP Half length / low profile SATA II RAID Controller 64-bit/133MHz 8 port Discrete + Port Multiplier = 32 SATA HDD for 565 $ is k.

and SAS one .. 1300 $ way to much .. better off buying 8 raptor 36 GB disk's than SAS 4 HDD raid :|

LATER : hmm do i realy need raid for the storage HDD ? cant just use 20 HDD with 6 SATA2 ports integrated on MB and Port Multiplier ??

i just need raid for the 4 15.000 k drives ... i've found on a link this :

8-Bay TowerPro is ideal for High Definition Non Linear Editing Storage system due to the incredible speed, or any application required over 500MB/sec READ, WRITE performance.

so .. a 4 bay towerPro + SAS raid controler ? + one 750 GB in raid for backup ?

the rest of the 20x750 GB or 1 TB HDD no raid or controler just MB ports ?

macjola

03-07-08, 02:46 AM

First motherboard with HDMI 1.3 :eek:

Intel mini-ITX G45 board

http://mar06.imgshare.us/yEO.jpg

:D
cheers

renethx

03-07-08, 03:18 AM

First motherboard with HDMI 1.3 :eek:

Intel mini-ITX G45 board

http://mar06.imgshare.us/yEO.jpg

:D
cheers
The source is here:

- Expreview.com - Intel preparing a mini-ITX G45 mobo (March 6, 2008) (http://en.expreview.com/2008/03/06/intel-preparing-a-mini-itx-g45-mobo/)

macjola

03-07-08, 04:52 AM

and full HDCP support :D

nice !!!

harktheshark

03-07-08, 07:47 AM

Renethx;

Sorry..I should have been more clear...I alreadu have a complete system (have processor and memory). I was thinking that my graphics card was so old that it wouldnt allow me to output audio/video over HDMI to my plasma....will it? (I havent tried yet)

renethx

03-07-08, 08:57 AM

harktheshark

03-07-08, 09:00 AM

Right now I will just use the TV's built in speakers --- later on I will output to my AV equipment. I am assuming that there is a new graphics card I can upgrade to that will do this?

renethx

03-07-08, 09:10 AM

Right now I will just use the TV's built in speakers --- later on I will output to my AV equipment. I am assuming that there is a new graphics card I can upgrade to that will do this?
Then GeForce 6600 GT is enough for now. Use RCA audio cables to connect the sound card to plasma. Even when you use a AV receiver, you have a S/PDIF port on the mb/sound card, so GeForce 6600 GT is enough. Perhaps you'd better save money for a better video card supporting true HDMI audio in future.

BenSanford

03-07-08, 10:51 AM

I'm looking at the high end recommendation of one of the 9600GT video cards. Notice that rebates are starting to appear go guess I still need to be patient.

Most of the reviews focus on the gaming use, although they mention the new video processing capabilities. They mention that many of the cards get fairly noisy when under heavy 3D processing in games, and the cards can go up to ~95 watts in those applications.

In HTPC usage, when using the video processing capabilities - will the power & noise be high, or will the cards run relatively cool in typical HTPC usage? If the focus is on highest performance I assume that the 9600GT would be the way to go (currently). If slightly lower performance and lower noise and power if the focus, then perhaps one of the ATI cards instead?

Ben

renethx

03-07-08, 11:27 AM

BenSanford

03-07-08, 11:41 AM

BenSanford

I think you have GeForce 8600 GTS. Is there any problem? The new video processing capabilities (dynamic contrast etc.) are mainly meant for PC monitors according to NVIDIA and they are also (partially?) supported by 8600 GTS (there is no official driver supporting these features yet). 9600 GT (or 8800 GT) is still the best choice for the highest video processing performance because of a larger number of stream processors.

Unfortunately there is no data on power consumption at video playback. 95W is just TDP (the power consumption in the worst case scenario). The actual power consumption is different. As a matter of fact, several reviews say 9600 GT is better than HD 3850 in power consumption. BTW more 9xxx cards come later and Radeon HD 4000 series in June (?) that could support HDMI audio.

Yes, my current HTPC has the 8600 GTS and it's working fine.

I'm building up a second unit (again using an ABIT IP35 Pro MB), and it will become my primary unit. My 8600GTS is passively cooled, and was just wondering if noise might be an issue with the 9600 GT. Looks like a lot things coming out in the near future, and I plan to pick up one of the 9600 GT cards soon.

Ben