I'm in the process of creating a new-construction theater in my basement. The room will be about 13x12 with a 92" screen. The main use of the room will be movies, but I'd also like to watch sports, a few HD TV shows, play video games (PS2 now, 360 eventually), and connect my computer for PC gaming.

I'm a big fan of CRT technology and wouldn't trade my 5 year old 57" Sony RPTV for any TV on the market today. As such, I'm looking at a CRT projector. Doing manual convergence is no problem and I don't mind doing some tweaking. My big question is how feasible it would be to buy a Marquee 8500 from Curt P to put into my theater. I'd like to keep the projector investment to around $3000 if possible. I do have some worries about parts availability or the ability to service the 8500 if that becomes necessary.

I have also been reading about the Panasonic AE-2000 LCD projector - but haven't been able to see one yet. I understand the differences in contrast and black levels between CRT and digital projectors, but a small current model projector has some convenience attached to it.

Do I need to worry about the reduced convenience of a CRT like the 8500?

You should really go check out a local crt projector if possible. Crt setup is pretty rough and has a steep learning curve. I still don't know how to setup my XG and I've had two for almost two years now. At least not able to setup the pj to its fullest, but I can get still a great pic. You shouldn't worry about anything if your purchasing a 8500 from Curt, he will take care of you and as far as parts there are tons of them so it would be easy to find something if it broke. However, that digital is resonablly nice and very convenient like you said. It just depends on how anal you are about picture quality. Even though I support Curt and highly recommend buying from him, if you do happen to think about not buying from him at around 2000 on the used market or even much less you can pick up an 8'' LC machine which would be a step up. However when you purhcase from an individual instead of someone like Curt you are on your own if something does fail or the item isn't like described. Once setup, you really only have to tweek the convergence maybe twice a month if you really want. Some people play with theres more than others, I typically touch up convergence every other week. Its pretty simple and I actually like doing it ,so if you enjoy tweaking, having a crt wouldn't be a problem to maintain once intial setup is complete.

You may want to check here for a local crt viewing:
http://www.curtpalme.com/ReferralList_UnitedStates.shtm

You should really go check out a local crt projector if possible. good advice, I know someone close to green bay with an 8500 and he might be wiliing to show it off.

I still don't know how to setup my XG and I've had two for almost two years now. Crt setup is pretty rough and has a steep learning curve. WRONG, he's asking about a marquee 8500, the most user friendly CRT PJ ever made. Your NEC is the exactly the opposite, tied with sony G70 as the complicated CRT electronic cluster-fu** ;)

I do have some worries about parts availability or the ability to service the 8500 if that becomes necessary.Do I need to worry about the reduced convenience of a CRT like the 8500? the marquee is still in production, and there's more parts available for these machines than any other projection device ever made.
http://vdcds.com/crtprojectors.html
The only incovenience is hanging it from the ceiling. Once that's done and set-up is complete you can simply kick-back and enjoy it for the next 10 years. I do a convergence touch up on mine 2 or 3 times a year.

. Once setup, you really only have to tweek the convergence maybe twice a month if you really want. Some people play with theres more than others, I typically touch up convergence every other week. Its pretty simple and I actually like doing it ,so if you enjoy tweaking, having a crt wouldn't be a problem to maintain once intial setup is complete.


Its blasphemy on this forum - but I just hit the ACON full setup on the inputs I use occasionally. (automatic convergence - most would say you can do a better job yourself but I like hitting the option and walking away for 5 minutes or so). I am obviuosly not into tweaking for absolute best.

I do have a friend near me who has an 8500 from Curt, so he has given me a few demos. I'm hoping to get my hands on a Panasonic so we can do a side by side comparison. I was unaware that the projectors were still in production. That is a fairly strong selling point. Can the 8500 handle 1080p well enough or do people stay at 1080i? Will I have any trouble with an OTA antenna for HD, DVD, and a PC connected? Can I assume that I will need the DVD player or the receiver to handle up-conversion?

I have the marquee 8500,

Be sure to connect it to a HTPC and bring the gamma up to 90 (depending on the utility you use) you will notice 50% more shadow detail; this is something that a digital cant do without looking way too bright and loosing black err grayness..:d

Dont get too hooked on resolution; the differences arent huge, I am able to do 1080p on mine due to my great sharpness but thats due to the fact that Im using a 100inch screen instead of those drive-in screens some people use :rolleyes:

If you can find a better price from an individual that can offer the same kind of guarantee than curt than you should buy from that guy, I got mine from a legit seller here in Sweden and all I had to pay was 150bucks+ a bunch of electronics I didnt need (such as a modded original xbox and a <500 digital) it had a 9, 7, 9 rating. some people are more interested in getting people interested in crts than actually selling them for thousands when theyve gotten it from some company for free...

The crt community is dying so I think getting a better price than 2500usd shouldnt be too hard, though if youre more into convenience and service then you should purchase from someone like curt, he seems like a great guy but money is money...

If you're a strong DIYer you can find bargains. Sometimes you'll get lucky, sometimes you won't. If you enjoy that kind of thing, great. But if you're NOT a strong DIYer, buying from Curt makes a lot of sense. He provides a guaranteed-working projector, tuned up well, and great after-the-sale support.

8500's can do 1080p, but without considerable after-market mods they won't do it very well. The image will probably be softer than if you ran 1080i or 720p. The circuitry will have to work a lot harder than it would at 1080i/720p, which may affect convergence stability or circuit reliability.

I wouldn't recommend HTPC to anybody unless you're a hardcore PC hacker. Get yourself a good HD / BluRay DVD player, which will play SD and HD DVDs at your desired resolution. An HD cable / satellite box will provide your TV at your desired resolution. HTPCs are a *lot* of hassle. I know plenty of people who have ditched their HTPC because it just wasn't worth the headache. Draganm just got an HD-A2 and is gleefully looking forward to trashing his HTPC. :)

some people are more interested in getting people interested in crts than actually selling them for thousands when theyve gotten it from some company for free..The crt community is dying so I think getting a better price than 2500usd shouldnt be too hard, though if youre more into convenience and service then you should purchase from someone like curt, he seems like a great guy but money is money... so 7 weesks ago you came here asking questions and didn't know a dam thing about CRT. Now your an expert and know that it's "dying" and that curt charges too much. Way to go champ :rolleyes:

8500's can do 1080p, but without considerable after-market mods they won't do it very well. The image will probably be softer than if you ran 1080i or 720p. The circuitry will have to work a lot harder than it would at 1080i/720p, which may affect convergence stability or circuit reliability.


This is not correct, I had my 8500 running at 1080P and it looked much better than at 1080i or 720P. It did take a lot of effort to get it to look good at 1080P but it was well worth it.

Also the only difference between and 8500 and a 9500 are the tubes and lenses. Running an 8500 at 1080P is no harder on the electronics than running a 9500 at 1080P as they both have the same electronics.

See http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3976 for some pics of my 8500 running at 1080P.

Chris.

Also the only difference between and 8500 and a 9500 are the tubes and lenses. Running an 8500 at 1080P is no harder on the electronics than running a 9500 at 1080P as they both have the same electronics.Chris. I'll vouch for that :) Even at 1080P, the 8500 is well below it's rated bandwidth, but like Chris pointed out whether or not it looks better at 1080P will depend on who's hands are under the hood. ;)

Hm, well, I don't think you can disagree that the circuitry is working harder (processing higher-freq signals) at 1080p than at 1080i, but maybe the 8500 has enough bandwidth to handle it with aplomb. The general wisdom is that 8" tubes don't have enough resolution to truly resolve 1080p, but MP and others have demonstrated it's possible if the signal is clean enough.

Maybe I'll try 1080p with my HD-A2 when I get the 8500 on the ceiling again. :)

so 7 weesks ago you came here asking questions and didn't know a dam thing about CRT. Now your an expert and know that it's "dying" and that curt charges too much. Way to go champ :rolleyes:

so 7 weesks ago you came here asking questions and didn't know a dam thing about CRT. Now your an expert and know that it's "dying" and that curt charges too much. Way to go champ :rolleyes:

tsss now I know plenty:p

Anyhow all I know is that if someone charges 2500usd for a marquee 8500 when i got it for less than 500 is...well whatever

and you dont have to be a crt expert to know that this is a dying community, prices have dropped thousands and there are no new models ahead, I recognise almost every avatar on this forum and Ive only been here for a couple of weeks, the legit crt dealer who got me my projector was smart enough to give it cheap; he had probably gotten them dirt cheap (curts probably gotten some just as cheap) and he knew that I might purchase more stuff from him in the future.. and he knew that I had friends who might express their interest; which some have when theyve seen the image Im getting, the only problem for people seems to be the size...:rolleyes:

Anyhow all I know is that if someone charges 2500usd for a marquee 8500 when i got it for less than 500 is...well whatever


There might be cheap projectors and those that has serviced and inspected.....

prices have dropped thousands and there are no new models ahead

not true, the Marquee line is still being made today, as are some barcos and i think Ampro models by VDC but for special big contract customers .

Athanasios

Brian,

Here is our local HT group with a few CRT projectors.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=448619

axellagrlf: who did you buy it from? the prices i have seen in sweden is tvice as much as for example curt.

cant be a fine pj for 500 bucks. not in this country. and, yes i have had a couple of crt:s now

Maybe I'll try 1080p with my HD-A2 when I get the 8500 on the ceiling again. :) sorry Gary but you won't be trying 1080P with the HD-A2. ;) You'll need an HD-A20, A-30, or A-35. Everything runs hotter at 1080P than it does with 1080i but the Marquee will be fine with it.
Speaking of which I know you saw some macro-blocking on my screen Saturday due to my HTPC/Radeon 9600 not being able to handle VRM-9. Sunday night I switched back to Overlay and I was surprised at how soft the pic was. So back into the menu I went and lo and behold there was a VRM -7 option which seemed to be the best choice. I haven't hooked up the HD-A2 yet but we need to do some A-B with my HTPC @960P and HD-DVD @1080i. I hope to find some time to do some comparisons.

Buying from a reseller is always more expensive due to the over head cost and I bet Curt gives you a unit that is more trusty than one that might cause you to pull your hair.

CRT needs to be set up. Convergence and geometry are the ones to learn. It is not difficult but takes a little time depending on the person.
Grayscale is same as digital. Digital has CMS that needs to be done which CRT dosen't have and that is a big one since you will need a color analyzer. Focus is more comprehensive than digital but it is not that technical. It is all visual and execution.

At the end you will get a picture that is very nice and as you learm more the PQ gets better. You will have no issues such as lamp failure, dust blob or colorwheel wine at least and CRT's should last a long time.

tsss now I know plenty:p
Anyhow all I know is that if someone charges 2500usd for a marquee 8500 when i got it for less than 500 is...well whatever so you paid $500. and got a fully checked out and re-tubed 8500 with all the technical service bulletins perfromed and in perfect working condition? WRONG. you got an As-is machine that the seller was kind enough to replace with a second machine a few days later. The second machine also has not been serviced and might have a slew of other problems under the hood, most notably the P14 over-voltage problem ticking away like a bomb. You still got a good deal for $500. but don't compare it to a fully serviced and re-tubed machine from curt.
AFA CRT dying, I have been reading that Shite from newby's like you for 5 years now. Why is it that everyone comes here knowing nothing about CRT and then 3 months later decides it's ok to call the hobby dead? If it's dying why are you here? Maybe you should just go and get a cheal LCD. Then you and MTyson should get together and talk about how awesome it si to have 720 Pixels on the screen all at the same time.:D

AFA CRT dying, I have been reading that Shite from newby's like you for 5 years now. Why is it that everyone comes here knowing nothing about CRT and then 3 months later decides it's ok to call the hobby dead? If it's dying why are you here? Maybe you should just go and get a cheal LCD. Then you and MTyson should get together and talk about how awesome it si to have 720 Pixels on the screen all at the same time.:D

When one reseller is responsible for roughly 25% of the listings on ebay, and virtually none of those listings gets a bid because they are ridiculously high priced compared to the other, similar listings, that is a clear indication that crt is dead.
You are a reseller. You have a vested interest in maintaining the illusion that crt projectors are "worth" as much as the most prolific reseller attempts to make them worth. They're not.
You, and a small(and getting smaller) group of resellers are constantly lobbying on this forum to keep the illusion that crt prices are maintaining their strength when they are not in fact doing that.
All of you resellers started as newbies here too, even Curt. All of you started by buying machines for NEXT TO NOTHING and reselling them to the un-initiated for exorbitant markups.
Curt used to drive down to Cape Canaveral to pick up his Barco 600's from NASA auctions when he paid $200. each for them, nowadays he's buying better machines, but hardly ever for more than that same $200./set amount.
I believe there was another reseller who bought their first half dozen or so machines from a junk dealer in Colorado who was unwilling to ship anywhere, but who had a semi trailer full of Marquees to sell.
Another reseller in California bought a dozen or so machines from a simulation builder in CA who blew out their retired stock for mere hundreds per machine until he spitefully informed them of their "market" value to queer deals for others.
An esteemed member from the south didn't know anything about crt projectors when he first stumbled upon this forum, but recognized a money maker in buying used for nothing and reselling for as much as the market would bear. Now he's an expert...
I'm leaving out lots of minor, hobby resellers who've come in, made a HUGE windfall buying and selling, and got out when they recognized the steep decline taking place.
The only people paying ANYTHING for crt projectors nowadays, are star struck fanboys, or those with money unwilling to simply look for the same cheap sources that all those resellers are using....
And, cheap LCD/DLP's, REGARLESS OF THEIR QUALITY, are the main reason for the decline in crt projector prices. The newbie has to be pretty hard core to pay THOUSANDS for a USED crt projector, when they can saunter down to Best Buy and pick up a perfectly functional BRAND NEW AND WARRANTIED DLP projector for $500. any day of the week...
The Infocus X1 wasn't a great looking projector, by anyone's estimation, BUT, it served to break the big price taboo that had kept ALL projectors prices inflated.
But you guys selling crt projectors just keep on telling everyone the market is still there.

Curt used to drive down to Cape Canaveral to pick up his Barco 600's from NASA auctions when he paid $200. each for them, Oh really. Curt drove over SIX THOUSAND MILES (round-trip) to buy $200 projectors?

If you think buying projectors for "NEXT TO NOTHING" and selling for a "HUGE windfall" is easy, you've never tried it. I've bought & sold a few projectors as I got tired of one and wanted to try another, and I can tell you it's work. And I didn't do anywhere near the fix-up and reconditioning that Dragan does, let alone the complete refurb Curt typically does.

Most people other than Curt and one or two others do this because it's a hobby. They enjoy it. They might make a few bucks for their time, but they're not getting rich by any stretch of the imagination.

You want cheap? Great, buy cheap. You will generally get what you pay for. Curt's prices are higher because he's offering more. If you don't want what he's selling, then don't buy it. That doesn't mean it's a ripoff.

I believe there was another reseller who bought their first half dozen or so machines from a junk dealer in Colorado who was unwilling to ship anywhere, but who had a semi trailer full of Marquees to sell.
. wow you must have dug in the archives to find that one. I remember that really well from 5 years ago. It was a huge truck-load of Marquee's from Lucent technology's, something like 45 machines. Maybe you should post a link so that others can read about what happend with those machines.
I'm actually really fond of that chapter so I'll paraphrase. 45 Marquee 8500's were posted on E-bay and someone posted a link here at AVS. The forum went crazy, everyone wanted one. They wound up getting shipped all over the country, I can't even remember who bought most of them but I got a few. It was a real crap shoot for those that bought in bulk, sight unseen. The majority of the machines had either dead our really burnt tubes. I wound up doing some work to 3 or 4 of the machines I got from there and sold them.
I also actually helped at least 3 or 4 other people buy their first CRT projector directly from that place. I took my personal time and drove down to Denver and hand-picked out machines for forum members who asked for my help. I did it for free.
Who have you helped here none74 ? What have you ever contributed to this forum in anyway? It's easy to be a little rat and contribute nothing while attacking Curt, Terry, myself and others who post here every day helping others with their machines and home theatres. Go ahead and Enjoy yourself but It sure seems like since you got out-bid on that 9500Lc ultra you simply have an agenda to smear everyone you see as profiting from a CRT sale.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=934757

Doing blue and red ACON convergence is only a tiny part of set up. it takes 5 to 10 minutes to do a manual converge let alone having an ACON do it.

This is good discussion to have on the viability of a CRT solution. I've had a CRT TV for 5 years and it is just starting to show some problems, so I know that the technology is good. The TV has gotten way more use in that 5 years than the projector will get, so I'm probably looking at 8-10 years of life out of a CRT projector...assuming parts and support will be available for that long. Speaking of which, if I do have to replace a bulb (or all three), what is the general price to do that for a Marquee? Is it more or less than the typical $400 talked about for digitals?

A digital projector will not last that long...for the bulb at least. Can I expect to be able to find a buy bulbs for any digital I buy for the next 8-10 years? Will I have to plan on buying a few right away so I'm guaranteed to find one?

I agree. With prices getting so low on all pj's including digital it is the best time to buy a crt for those who apprecite what it offers. It is not for the guy who wants to drop in BestBuy and pick up his $500 pj.
Debating on which is better or worse is all personal and both camps have their points but the $500 digital is never going to be the marquee 8500.

Doing blue and red ACON convergence is only a tiny part of set up. it takes 5 to 10 minutes to do a manual converge let alone having an ACON do it.

Is this in response to my comment above? If so I agree that its a small part of total initial setup but its 5 to 10 minutes I don't spend on several inputs on a monthly basis or so. Point is I let ACON do it on the various inputs while I am out of the room and its good enough for me. So I spend essentially no time converging blue and red.

And I don't do anything else either periodically like mechanical setup - Some of us just want to enjoy the CRTs display and not fuss all about it (Which I can do now that my intermittent loss of vertical sync mysteriously disappeared for over a month). Wasn't that you complaining about ringing and setup in another thread and therefor ditching your CRT to go to the ease of an expensive digital?

I hate to post this, but CRT means cathode ray tube. A Marquee uses three CRTs, a blue, a red, and a green. As Cliffy might say, CRTS DON'T USE FREEKING BULBS! :) Changing a tube is expensive both in terms of tube costs and labor costs as well as reset up of the projector.

I dont think crt is dead at all. I got into the front crt hobby becuase i got a new Mitsu rear and realized how great the pic was after i had it calibrated by A pro with a lumagen VP. That is how i stubled upon this forum. I had a few digitals before i finaly decided to try my hand at crt last november and am sooooo glad i did! Its a great hobby and since being here i have seen a lot of enthusiasm and some newbees coming on here getting excited about crt like our little newbie axel over there in sweden. he now, may think he knows what he's talking about but its just young arrogance and we all were like that once. I think its great to have the young get into this "old" technology that we still belive is superior. Also if the major manufacturers had not abandoned it I'm sure it would have still had much more room for improvment. Even if the present consumer realizes that the new digitlas wont last nearly as long as the Old CRT I dont think crt will make a come back even though it should. This has become a society of consumption and waste. Quality that is lasting has become an antiquated notion of late. I remember reading all the reviews of CRT's in the late 80s and through the 90's when digitals were just coming out and how a wish i had the 50,000 for a top of the line crt. I enede up with the first widescreen digital sony VPL W400q and loved it.....until i went to my local high end shop and they invited me "upstairs" to see the top of the line stuff a barco cine 8 and i was like WOW my digitla sucks ! So, since then i have always aspired to own a crt fprt, and until this forum i have alway thought they were still in the 25,000 dollar range.

I didnt but from a reseller and took the "cheap" way to crt but only because i am comfortable with fixing things and have a patiance for it. Other wise it would have been through someone like Curt or Tim. I forgot my point after rambling ! I guess its all relavent to each situation and each individual. its all about the love of cinema.

Athanasios

Who have you helped here none74 ? What have you ever contributed to this forum in anyway?
You're funny, ha, ha, just for fun, I searched for my "contributions", there were over 140 pages of my posts trying to help others. But then again, how would you know, you've only been here less than half the time I have...newby(sp?)

Speaking of which, if I do have to replace a bulb (or all three), what is the general price to do that for a Marquee? Is it more or less than the typical $400 talked about for digitals? Brian brand new maruee 8" tubes are $600. each. The Green is the first to wear, expect about 8 to 10K hours before it color shifts to the point of needing replacing. Blue will last 10 to 12K and the Red can last 20k hours or more.

A digital projector will not last that long...for the bulb at least. Can I expect to be able to find a buy bulbs for any digital I buy for the next 8-10 years? Will I have to plan on buying a few right away so I'm guaranteed to find one? 8 to 10 years no. You should be able to find new lamps for at least 5 years though. I remembr a huge "shootout" between the king of the hill (at the time) HD2+ DLP against a Sony G70. the G70 killed it but if you are unlucky enough to still have one of those DLP's and by some miracle it's still running, the lamp is actually still available for $500. :D
http://www1.epinions.com/Replacement_Lamp_Projector_Lamp_for_Sharp_XVZ12000U_Projecto r


You're funny, ha, ha, just for fun, I searched for my "contributions", there were over 140 pages of my posts trying to help others. But then again, how would you know, you've only been here less than half the time I have...newby(sp?)
hey Einstein, your join date of Nov 2005 is under your name. You have posts starting in summer of 2006 and most of it is of no use to anyone, mostly relating to HTPc's and videocards for gaming. However i'm sure you've been here a little longer than that, under a lot of different names that bred the same hostility you created today.:(

not true, the Marquee line is still being made today, as are some barcos and i think Ampro models by VDC but for special big contract customers .

Athanasios

I know that; I meant new models theres no G100 up ahead..

axellagrlf: who did you buy it from? the prices i have seen in sweden is tvice as much as for example curt.

cant be a fine pj for 500 bucks. not in this country. and, yes i have had a couple of crt:s now

its a very fine projector, the tubes are rated 9, 7, 9

actually I got a marquee 8000 at first but then it broke so the seller drove 2 hours to come replace it with a M8500.. he was a really nice guy whose a crt projector dealer.:)

Ill post some pics in a couple of days and youll see what this projector can do, with a few minor tweaks the color depth is almost as good as a 9incher; if you use a HTPC..

so you paid $500. and got a fully checked out and re-tubed 8500 with all the technical service bulletins perfromed and in perfect working condition? WRONG. you got an As-is machine that the seller was kind enough to replace with a second machine a few days later. The second machine also has not been serviced and might have a slew of other problems under the hood, most notably the P14 over-voltage problem ticking away like a bomb. You still got a good deal for $500. but don't compare it to a fully serviced and re-tubed machine from curt.
AFA CRT dying, I have been reading that Shite from newby's like you for 5 years now. Why is it that everyone comes here knowing nothing about CRT and then 3 months later decides it's ok to call the hobby dead? If it's dying why are you here? Maybe you should just go and get a cheal LCD. Then you and MTyson should get together and talk about how awesome it si to have 720 Pixels on the screen all at the same time.:D

I have mint blue and red tubes, strong ones, and the green is rated a solid 7
I asked the seller about that voltage thing and he told me that it was produced after 98 or something and that marquee had fixed that...he has no reason to lie. I might have gotten a good deal but curt probably gets the projectors dirt cheap when he calls around to different companies who are just about to dispose of them, 2500usd for a machine you get for 100 is immoral.. though I know hes a great guy, very helpful and such.. I would never pay that much for a projector even if I had the money.

yeah well the hobby has been dying for the last 5years so theyve all been spot on, in 10 years were all gonna have digitals or 9inchers...

Yes, the Marquee is still in production, and though the model number may not change on the stuff they have sold in the past. For sure the re-design work that Scott has done so far in his lab should definitely qualify it as a whole new and better model.

A CRT projector dealer! Wow! Those are pretty rare birds now a days.

Yes, the Marquee is still in production, and though the model number may not change on the stuff they have sold in the past. For sure the re-design work that Scott has done so far in his lab should definitely qualify it as a whole new and better model.

Yes i heard especialy to the video chain, i hear the newer boards are awsome but very expensive.

I remember reading somewhere he said if we bought new vdc projectors they would answer our requests for new features ex blending software built in, since they do mostly whatever there main customers want.

If i was super rich and had money to burn i'd start a new crt company with the marquee as the base and have MP and TSE as my main tech gurus! No digital ever would ever come close...EVER!!!! But that is just a pipe dream.

Athanasios

2500usd for a machine you get for 100 is immoral.. though I know hes a great guy, very helpful and such.. I would never pay that much for a projector even if I had the money. Axell your speculating on something you know nothing about and simply talking out of your ass. First of all I have never personally gotten an M8500 for $100., EVER. Typical price is usually around $450. for a typical beat-up machine with dented covers and broken side panels. On top of that you have freigth at $150. per machine which by itself makes the $100. number impossible. Simply replacing one tubes adds $600. to the machines cost. So that's $1200. Curts cost assuming he has spare covers, the other 2 tubes are perfect, and all the modules are good which means only 3 or 4 technical bulletins need to be done, the machine re-assembled and tested for 10 hours. He, AFAIK, he has to cover the machine for at least 90 days warranty support, which could possible eat up more time and money for the occasional machine which might act-up.
Look, you got lucky and someone close to you gave you nice machine very cheaply with decent tubes in it. That has NOTHING to do what a fully re-built and warranted machine should or does cost.

I might have gotten a good deal but curt probably gets the projectors dirt cheap when he calls around to different companies who are just about to dispose of them, 2500usd for a machine you get for 100 is immoral.. though I know hes a great guy, very helpful and such.. I would never pay that much for a projector even if I had the money.
...

You know, comments like the above really shouldn't come from newbies that start multiple numerous page threads about projector problems... when the end user had 2 cables reversed all along... which was told to him on the first page of the first thread.

Normally I don't get involved in people bashing, but when I'm attacked personally in a thread, then I go for the jugular in return.

Let me break down your $250 = $2500 math:

Cost of as is projector: $250.00
Cost of shipping, customs clearance $250.00
Cost of 2 tubes, maybe 3 if text burned $1200-$1800
Modifications, cleaning all contacts 2 hours
Setting up and test running projector 2 hours

Time spent emailing to qualify purchase
to customer and tech support: 1 1/2 hours

Possible warranty repair of board incl shipping $150.00

Selling price: $2500-$3000.00

So yes, there is profit in selling machines, but not what you might think. And certainly not what it used to be.

I really hope Axel that you never need support for your set for some obscure problem, because this is the last post I'll ever respond to from you.

Now pardon me, I need to polish my gold plated toilet seat and dust the Ferrari in my garage. :rolleyes:

Now pardon me, I need to polish my gold plated toilet seat and dust the Ferrari in my garage. :rolleyes:

Now that is funny. :D
People hardly get rich by selling used electronics these days.
I don't even know how you can survive to be honest with you let alone gold plated toilet seat. I know you were kidding about the gold plated toilete.

You know, comments like the above really shouldn't come from newbies that start multiple numerous page threads about projector problems... when the end user had 2 cables reversed all along... which was told to him on the first page of the first thread.

Normally I don't get involved in people bashing, but when I'm attacked personally in a thread, then I go for the jugular in return.

Let me break down your $250 = $2500 math:

Cost of as is projector: $250.00
Cost of shipping, customs clearance $250.00
Cost of 2 tubes, maybe 3 if text burned $1200-$1800
Modifications, cleaning all contacts 2 hours
Setting up and test running projector 2 hours

Time spent emailing to qualify purchase
to customer and tech support: 1 1/2 hours

Possible warranty repair of board incl shipping $150.00

Selling price: $2500-$3000.00

So yes, there is profit in selling machines, but not what you might think. And certainly not what it used to be.

I really hope Axel that you never need support for your set for some obscure problem, because this is the last post I'll ever respond to from you.

Now pardon me, I need to polish my gold plated toilet seat and dust the Ferrari in my garage. :rolleyes:


Curt that was Awsome!

(say in teasing taunting voice)

Poor little Axel isn't going to get help from Curt, poor little Axel ;)

Well maybe Axel after curt calms down he might help but you did start a topic about something your not 100% sure on. I have been nice to you beacause i love it when new blood gets into CRT. But with these types of comments and your young arrogance it can make you enemy's here very quickly. You already got two of the guys who helped me out the most pissed off. I hope you learn from this and keep it in mind next time you want to comment on something you think you know about but dont.

Athanasios

Now pardon me, I need to polish my gold plated toilet seat and dust the Ferrari in my garage.


Curt how many marquees you have to move to fit the car in there? ;)

Curt how many marquees you have to move to fit the car in there? ;)

None. It's the dozens of G90s and Barco 909s that are in the damn way. :D

Thanks for the backup guys, that made me smile..:)

You have my support Curt even if you are the ugliest woman I have ever seen.

Just please don't dig up Lawrence's photoshopped pix of me with the boobs, OK?

Wow you must be starving earning only 300usd per projector....

but hey do you have to exchange the tubes on Every projector you buy?

Do you have to pay shipping for Every projector you buy? or are they sometimes within driving distance.

Do you pay customs for every projector you sell?

Do you always purchase new tubes from marquee, do you rephospore them or do you sometimes have such in stock?

Do you always have to spend 4hours refurbishing every projector youve bought?

Wow you have to spend time emailing? yikes sounds like hard work...

Btw how about those 10k G90s youre selling? doesnt big corporate companies ever dispose of those?

Anyhow nash, its very possible for me to open new accounts here on avs or curts forum, if I am that desperate to get help.

About the cable thing, I got it working after 3days! get that?
the first cable I used when the original thread was made DID NOT WORK no matter where I put the H/V sync.

youll all be dying to respond to my next thread:D

Axell Your profile says "senior member". When are you going to behave like senior members do ??:confused:

Axell Your profile says "senior member". When are you going to behave like senior members do ??:confused:

Wha..senior? didnt know that..Im 17:D

anyhow I am, and theres alot of question marks in curtes calculation

Btw I meant VDC not marquee*

axellagerlf, thanks for acting like an immature ass. In future please do so without pissing of every friendly and knowledgeable person in here. We can then just read your posts for amusement, we won't answer any of them though.

Maybe you can start a crt business where you live and start a thread on which supercar to buy with all that profit you will most certainly make from poor indoctrinated crt fanboys. Even better, start your own website to hook, reel-in and catch them with the crt mafia tactics you obviously know everything about.

axellagerlf, thanks for acting like an immature ass. In future please do so without pissing of every friendly and knowledgeable person in here. We can then just read your posts for amusement, we won't answer any of them though.

Maybe you can start a crt business where you live and start a thread on which supercar to buy with all that profit you will most certainly make from poor indoctrinated crt fanboys. Even better, start your own website to hook, reel-in and catch them with the crt mafia tactics you obviously know everything about.

haha and you were calling me immature?

axel curt is THE MAN so have respect,ok

we all need to help each other, a joke is ok but not this,ok

enjoy your new toy and be nice,thanks

He just shot himself in the foot!

I just thought of something for the old timers here:


axel=raster? :eek::D

Its all part of growing up and learning. Thread should just be closed and let Axel keep growing and learning about CRTs, without the business focus.

He can get that education in college or real life later on. Doesn't need to learn that here.

axel curt is THE MAN so have respect,ok

we all need to help each other, a joke is ok but not this,ok

enjoy your new toy and be nice,thanks

Ok, Ill stop criticizing him then..

but I still gotta say how remarkably inobjective some tend to be here on the forum.

Anyhow I wasnt in any way questioning anyones knowledge/experience about these projectors, just business ethics..

I just thought of something for the old timers here:


axel=raster? :eek::D

I was thinking the same thing!

Axel, you are acting like a spoiled child. You are accusing Curt of dishonest behavior when you have UTTERLY NO CLUE what is involved. Do you also call your local grocer a thief because he sells bread for more than it costs him?

At the tender age of 17 I suspect your business experience is rather limited, and it shows. When you are no longer living with your mommy you might begin to understand that a businessman has to make a living, and he has many expenses to pay before he can pay himself. Curt is not doing this for fun; this is his business. He makes an honest living by providing a service that plenty of people value, and he works damn hard at it.

If you thought about it for a moment, you might realize that a dishonest businessman would not have so many people coming to his defense. If Curt was ripping everybody off as badly as you claim, he would not have so many supporters. Curt is a respected and highly valued member of the CRT community.

You are not making any friends with your ignorant and insulting claims. I suggest you heed the quote (attributed to Mark Twain, Ben Franklin, and others): "It is better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

What he really cannot understand is that prices are set by market demand not Curt.
I do understand that he has nearly a monopoly but still if he cannot sell he will be out.

I just thought of something for the old timers here:axel=raster? :eek::D
well the similarities are striking but the most disturbing thought is to think that Rasters gene-pool managed to emmigrate from Sweden all the way to Alabama :D

Let's end this guys. We are just feeding his need for attention. His posts have no effect on us other than to make us angry. He is too stupid to see the truth we are trying to tell him. There is no point in responding to him any further.

Gary. Your post. A Classic.

I will throw some gas on this fire.:)
When one reseller is responsible for roughly 25% of the listings on ebay, and virtually none of those listings gets a bid because they are ridiculously high priced compared to the other, similar listings, that is a clear indication that crt is dead.
You are a reseller. You have a vested interest in maintaining the illusion that crt projectors are "worth" as much as the most prolific reseller attempts to make them worth. They're not.
You, and a small(and getting smaller) group of resellers are constantly lobbying on this forum to keep the illusion that crt prices are maintaining their strength when they are not in fact doing that.
All of you resellers started as newbies here too, even Curt. All of you started by buying machines for NEXT TO NOTHING and reselling them to the un-initiated for exorbitant markups.
Curt used to drive down to Cape Canaveral to pick up his Barco 600's from NASA auctions when he paid $200. each for them, nowadays he's buying better machines, but hardly ever for more than that same $200./set amount.
I believe there was another reseller who bought their first half dozen or so machines from a junk dealer in Colorado who was unwilling to ship anywhere, but who had a semi trailer full of Marquees to sell.
Another reseller in California bought a dozen or so machines from a simulation builder in CA who blew out their retired stock for mere hundreds per machine until he spitefully informed them of their "market" value to queer deals for others.
An esteemed member from the south didn't know anything about crt projectors when he first stumbled upon this forum, but recognized a money maker in buying used for nothing and reselling for as much as the market would bear. Now he's an expert...
I'm leaving out lots of minor, hobby resellers who've come in, made a HUGE windfall buying and selling, and got out when they recognized the steep decline taking place.
The only people paying ANYTHING for crt projectors nowadays, are star struck fanboys, or those with money unwilling to simply look for the same cheap sources that all those resellers are using....
And, cheap LCD/DLP's, REGARLESS OF THEIR QUALITY, are the main reason for the decline in crt projector prices. The newbie has to be pretty hard core to pay THOUSANDS for a USED crt projector, when they can saunter down to Best Buy and pick up a perfectly functional BRAND NEW AND WARRANTIED DLP projector for $500. any day of the week...
The Infocus X1 wasn't a great looking projector, by anyone's estimation, BUT, it served to break the big price taboo that had kept ALL projectors prices inflated.
But you guys selling crt projectors just keep on telling everyone the market is still there.

Interesting post!

Who have you helped here none74 ? What have you ever contributed to this forum in anyway? It's easy to be a little rat and contribute nothing while attacking Curt, Terry, myself and others who post here every day helping others with their machines and home theatres. Go ahead and Enjoy yourself but It sure seems like since you got out-bid on that 9500Lc ultra you simply have an agenda to smear everyone you see as profiting from a CRT sale.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=934757

I believe none74 has helped a lot of people under his other alias. If I remember correctly, then he has went to several CRT owners places and helped set up and calibrate (with actual tools) their pjs. He also sold cables that were considered pretty good by a lot of folks for a very reasonable cost. I won't out him, but my last sentence should give you an idea who he is.


I have a question for everyone. Why are you buying CRT pj? It used to be that used CRTs were the leaders in price/performance, but now I am not so sure anymore. There are quite a few 1080p digital pjs under $5k with the seemingly highly thought of Panny 2000 at around $2500. Scott tells me that it will be a while before digitals will get to true black, but how important is that to everyone. I still love CRT and will stick around, but I wouldn't pay a premium for the technology.

To the OP, I definitely encourage you to try the CRT/digital comparison. I would love to hear your opinions especially if it is with the Panny 2000 and Marquee 8500.

Edit - I want to add that if one already has a good CRT like an 8" LC or 9" then I wouldn't trade it for a digital. It is funny how flat panels are almost eliminating RPTVs. I still think flat panels will be an interesting alternative some time down the road.

I have a question for everyone. Why are you buying CRT pj? It used to be that used CRTs were the leaders in price/performance, but now I am not so sure anymore. There are quite a few 1080p digital pjs under $5k with the seemingly highly thought of Panny 2000 at around $2500. Scott tells me that it will be a while before digitals will get to true black, but how important is that to everyone. I still love CRT and will stick around, but I wouldn't pay a premium for the technology.

To the OP, I definitely encourage you to try the CRT/digital comparison. I would love to hear your opinions especially if it is with the Panny 2000 and Marquee 8500.


I have a friend near me who has an 8500 (which is what got me asking about them), and I am looking to get a hold of a Panny 2000 for comparison purposes. I'm not exactly sure how important black levels are for me, but I know I want a good picture with as little noise as possible. Since I'm looking to stay around $3000, my choices are limited, but at this point the choice seems to be between the 8500 and the 2000.

As far as your point about the RPTV and flat panels (which I cut out), I may be seeing my RPTV CRT starting to show some trouble. If I can get new replacement tubes for less than the cost of a brand new digital TV, I will probably do that. I haven't seen any digital TVs that look better than my 5 year old CRT.

I do have a friend near me who has an 8500 from Curt, so he has given me a few demos. I'm hoping to get my hands on a Panasonic so we can do a side by side comparison. Brian what kind of signal is your friend running to his 8500? Depending on how it's hooked up you might not be getting a good idea if what the 8500 is really capable of.

Brian what kind of signal is your friend running to his 8500? Depending on how it's hooked up you might not be getting a good idea if what the 8500 is really capable of.

As far as I know, he is running component from an HTPC and HDMI from a HD-DVD player...not sure the model.

As far as I know, he is running component from an HTPC and HDMI from a HD-DVD player...not sure the model.

I'm the friend Brian is talking about. Close, but not quite. My HTPC is hooked up via the BNC connectors and my HD-DVD player via the component inputs on a moome card. I tried the HDMI input on it originally, but the picture wasn't as good as it was over component.

I'm the friend Brian is talking about. Close, but not quite. My HTPC is hooked up via the BNC connectors and my HD-DVD player via the component inputs on a moome card. I tried the HDMI input on it originally, but the picture wasn't as good as it was over component. something doesn't sound right about that mome card hook-up. Are you using the older Moome DVI card with an HDMI adapter? On that card component did in fact look better.

Yeah i've got one of the older cards.

that was pretty much my experience as well with the original DVI card. It would crush the low end with the DVI feed but it was still a great way to send compoonent. The new 10 bit HDMI card is a different animal altogether. Luckilly Moome took note of forum feedback from the the first card and utilized a new chip with 10 bit processor and low-end gamma boost for the HDMI version. IT's really fantastic now on the HDMI side, here's some specs from curt's site

Supports both 16-235 and 0-255 colour range and auto selects correct value
BT601 (component) and BT709 (HDTV) colour space transform support with auto mode detect for correct colour space
High precision > 200Mhz 10bit DAC
High speed > 500Mhz output buffer
HDMI 1.1/1.2 compliant as well as HDCP 1.0/1.1 compliant.
Gamma correction adjustment - variable

I was comparing 1080i into moome's new card against RGB from my HTPC@960P and the HDMI input was so much more shrper and dynamic it's quite a big difference. I really wanted to post some screen captures but they turned out awful.:(

That's pretty much how I view the card right now. a good way for component input. If I had more need for HDMI, i'd get the newer version now, but I just haven't seen it yet. I'm perfectly happy with the HD-DVD into component, so I haven't bothered to fix that particular issue.

2 more questions about the 8500 and my room.

1. I am planning on a 92" screen in a 13x12 basement room (seating at about 10'). Will I have room for a 8500? To get the proper throw distance, the back of the projector will be at about 11.5' which doesn't leave much room behind the projector. I've got a window in the middle of the back wall, so the projector will come pretty close to that. Any environmental issues with being this close?

2. During a demo last night I noticed a couple of "rainbows". These aren't the normal DLP rainbows which I see pretty easily, but they were flashes of color in some really bright images on the screen I caught them occasionally on a spinning light saber or sunlight peeking through cracks in a door. Any reason I might be seeing these? I have seen something similar in newer DLPs and a few times on LCOS as well, so they might not be CRT related.

2 more questions about the 8500 and my room.

1. I am planning on a 92" screen in a 13x12 basement room (seating at about 10'). Will I have room for a 8500? To get the proper throw distance, the back of the projector will be at about 11.5' which doesn't leave much room behind the projector. I've got a window in the middle of the back wall, so the projector will come pretty close to that. Any environmental issues with being this close? One thing you can do to leave a little more room for the window at the back is install an 8500 with color filtered HD-145 lenses. In addition to giving you more accurate color primaries, it decreases the throw distance by approximately 12". AFA environmental issues, the 8500 has the most shielding i've seen inside any CRT, so sitting underneath it is as safe as any other electrical device.


2. During a demo last night I noticed a couple of "rainbows". These aren't the normal DLP rainbows which I see pretty easily, but they were flashes of color in some really bright images on the screen I caught them occasionally on a spinning light saber or sunlight peeking through cracks in a door. Any reason I might be seeing these? I have seen something similar in newer DLPs and a few times on LCOS as well, so they might not be CRT related. CRT's are analog devices, they don't do any D/A converison inside like a digital so what you put in is what comes out of the tubes. I'm not sure what your seeing there, some kind of scaling artifact from HTPC? I have seen a few artifacts from my HTPC, mostly folding in background pans where the image seems to wave like a bed-sheet blowing in the wind.

the power for a 92 inch scrreen is definitly enough, i use a 144 inch wide screen before i added a second 8500. and it was acceptable to me, some like it really bright but i prefer really BIG ! With reguards to the proximity to the window as long as you dont let it rain on it it will be fine and probably better if it is cooler near the window. The rear heat sink gets pretty warm, the main thing is to keep the temprature steady, not many fluctuations as thease can cause convergance drift.

Now the convergange drift and what i was talking about with consistant temp might have something to do with your "rainbows" on bright objects against dark. it sounds like your not converged. turn on your projector after having it off for a long time(4 hours) and check the grid pattern most of the time it should be off alittle bit . then wait for it to warm up at least half hour then recheck , and see what it looks like. if you converged it when it was warm it should be pretty good. If you idd the convergance when it was cold it would drift out as you watch a movie.

So, here are some tips.

Always do convergance and all set up after at least a half hour warm up.
Also try to use and external grid out of the source you are watching for the convergance. Many times the internal grid will be different than the external and in using the external grid your assured to be using the frequency of the source for the convergance. this makes a big difrence with perfect convergance.
then touch up once evry few weeks or so, i check it beofre every movie myself after a 45 minut warm up . most of the time its right on.

Athanasios

I'm not worried about the power of the 8500 as the demo looked great on a 110" screen, so I know it will work on a 92". The main question was getting it to fit in the space. I'll have to check on the cost difference with the HD-145 lenses since that might be necessary in the small room.

The convergence of the projector looked good though it may not have been perfect. The rainbows were only minor flashes of red/blue in bright white light...certainly nothing like the color test pattern I see in DLP screens.

Are the rainbow flashes just hot spots on the screen? If your at Bill's house i thought he just had the 1.0 gain screen.

Are the rainbow flashes just hot spots on the screen? If your at Bill's house i thought he just had the 1.0 gain screen.

I believe he told me it was a 1.3 gain. Can you define a hot spot for me? I'm not sure I know what you are referring to here.

Edit: On a side note, I should mention that Bill's theater always intimidates me. Things always look and sound so good there that I'm convinced my theater will fall short of his even if I spend the same amount of money...

The HD-145's are worth it for the color improvements (see my post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12348707#post12348707)), and the shorter throw is just an additional side benefit. But it will cost you $400-450 or so.

Well let me fill in a few more details...

The convergence last night was pretty good. Off in a couple of spots on the bottom left side, but i've always had issues over there. That isn't where Brian saw the problem.

I thought I had a 1.3 gain, but looking at the specs again it's a Carada brilliant white screen which is a 1.4 gain. i've never noticed any hot spotting with it, and didn't last night either.

I also didn't notice what he is talking about. Perhaps it's because i've just watched my system too much and am used to it. Dunno.

I think he was just awed by the deep CRT blacks and when the light stuff came up it stunned him :)

I have a 1.3 da-lite and see no hot spotting but that could be due the shear size of my screen 144". I have sen what he is talking about and in every case on my marquee it was the convergance drift. Just in a few spots but it seemed to be right where i would notice it.The red and blue flashes leads me to think its the red and blue moving out of convergance just a bit. If you take the time and make sure the raster is centered right and the electronics dont have to be used to much for convergence the drifting will be much less.

Athansios

I'll have to check on the cost difference with the HD-145 lenses since that might be necessary in the small room. check your PM box

I have a 1.3 da-lite and see no hot spotting but that could be due the shear size of my screen 144". I have sen what he is talking about and in every case on my marquee it was the convergance drift. Just in a few spots but it seemed to be right where i would notice it.The red and blue flashes leads me to think its the red and blue moving out of convergance just a bit. If you take the time and make sure the raster is centered right and the electronics dont have to be used to much for convergence the drifting will be much less.

Athansios

I know what you are talking about with this effect and i've seen that before. But that wasn't the case with whatever Brian saw. Unless suddenly his vision has gotten way better than mine. I usually have a pretty sharp eye for defects in a picture.

Brian,

For that money I think you could get into a 9" LC machine. At this point I don't see any pint in going for less.

Brian,

For that money I think you could get into a 9" LC machine. At this point I don't see any pint in going for less.

From what I have seen, a 9" LC Marquee runs pretty close to $6k. I'd like to keep closer to $3k if possible.

I know what you are talking about with this effect and i've seen that before. But that wasn't the case with whatever Brian saw. Unless suddenly his vision has gotten way better than mine. I usually have a pretty sharp eye for defects in a picture.

I seem to be cursed with very good vision, but I can't figure out why I would be seeing rainbows in these non-rainbow-producing technologies. CRT, LED-based DLP, SXRD...none of these are supposed to produce rainbows yet I occasionally see them. Should I be laying off the magic mushrooms? :)

Can you describe the rainbows you see? E.g. on DLPs you see rainbows when your eye tracks rapidly across the screen, especially with bright objects against a dark background. When and how are you seeing rainbows with CRTs??

Can you describe the rainbows you see? E.g. on DLPs you see rainbows when your eye tracks rapidly across the screen, especially with bright objects against a dark background. When and how are you seeing rainbows with CRTs??

With DLPs, I see rainbows when my eye tracks rapidly across the screen as well as on my peripheral vision. Those rainbows look like the old-time color test patterns that TV stations would show when they went off the air.

Rainbows I see with other technologies tend to be just one color rather than all three, and they generally happen with bright lights...mostly bright white. The one color is sometimes red and other times blue. It is almost like the three primary colors combining to make white are firing at slightly different times. That is the best I can describe it. It isn't like a red or blue edge, more like an instant of red before it becomes white. I'm not sure how to describe the rainbow on the light saber since it wasn't white...though there may be a flash of white light during the spinning saber.

With DLPs, I can generally make myself see the rainbow any time I want so it is easy to reproduce. Rainbows with other techs happen on occasion, but I can't make them happen. I can't tell if it is the technology, the source, or just a trick of my eyes. Maybe I've seen enough DLP rainbows that I just expect to see them now so I am making myself see them...

Hm. Beats me. If it's very inconsistent, I'd be tempted to suspect the source -- especially with EFX like light sabers. Would be interesting if you noticed this effect, to immediately rewind the movie and watch the same scene again. If you see the effect again, you know it's the source. If you don't, then, well, you smokin' anything funny?? :)