I'm looking for a subwoofer to go with a Polk Audio HT setup. Here's what my system looks like:

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR605
Front: Polk Monitor 30's
Center: Polk CS1
Rear: Polk RC85i In-wall

I was considering either a Polk PSW404 or PSW505, but after some research I'm finding that many people prefer one of the Dayton Sub-120. What say ye?

Kelly

If you can go to exactly $300 (including shipping) and can live with a rectangular, somewhat large and non-furniture-grade finish, the eD A2-250 is the way to go. It has tons of output and can extend below 20hz. No brainer to me. The shape is long, but short and not too wide (it's 13.75x13.75x24.5 inches). Might be able to hide its somewhat unattractive looking cabinet along a wall or behind something. It will blow away the other subs you're considering. Go to edesignaudio.com and check out their powered subs. It's the cheapest one there.

Room size? It makes a difference.

< $300 I would recommend the Bic H-100 over the ones you list, I've personally tried the Dayton SUB-120 found it to be to boomy and muddy for my taste and sent it back. I've setup several BIc H-100s for friends and was very impressed, best way to go at the $200 price point imo.

Check out the ED A2-300. It list for slightly over your budget but the price includes shipping so actually it's right at your budget when you factor that in, that would be the best choice. If budget is a factor though I'd recommend going with the Bic H-100.

Room size? It makes a difference.

Room size is 19' x 21' with 18' ceiling, one third of which is sloped.

The shape is long, but short and not too wide (it's 13.75x13.75x24.5 inches). Might be able to hide its somewhat unattractive looking cabinet along a wall or behind something. It will blow away the other subs you're considering. Go to edesignaudio.com and check out their powered subs. It's the cheapest one there.

The A/V cabinet I'm using will accommodate a 9" x 20" subwoofer. It has a thick, foam gasket that the subwoofer sits on. It would be great if I can find something that will work with this. If not, I would prefer something more traditional (i.e square) that has a nice cabinet I can display :)

BTW, I haven't purchased the other Polk speakers I've listed above yet, and the only reason I'm going with the Polk monitors is because I need something smaller that will fit in my A/V cabinet. The maximum speakers I can use are as follows:

Bookshelf: 18" w x 9.25" deep
Center Channel: 22" wide x 9.25" deep

I can probably accomodate something a little deeper if I remove the A/V cabinet back. Both spaces only have a 4" high, covered cut-out where the sound will project through. I've been looking at the Bics after the recommendations above and they seem like they're pretty darn good. What do you recommend for the front speakers?

Thanks,
Kelly

BTW, I also need some thick, acoustic shaped foam to set the front speakers on. Where can I get that stuff?

Room size matters, and for under 300 you may not get what you need. I would consider spending a bit more, and check out the HSU subwoofers. They are "relatively inexpensive" and their site has useful information on choosing the right size for your needs.

Subwoofers need to push air to make an impact. There's a lot of science involved, but if you are serious about your AV system, you really should try to invest in a decent subwoofer.... Just my 02 cents. BTW the only down-side to HSU is that they are only on-line dealers. My friend has one and it is a stunning sub for the price.

Your room is quite large. Hate to say it, but $300 probably won't get you a subwoofer that will give you satisfactory performance in a room that size - especially not with a nice finish that you can "display". Your room is considered to be in the "huge rooms" category according to Hsu's website (over 6000 cubic feet). I'd seriously consider waiting to get the sub until you have more money to spend. Not to say there aren't some great deals on budget subwoofers...but your room requires a powerful subwoofer. My room is tiny (around 1000 cubic feet) and I wasn't happy with subs in the sub-$300 range. If you get a cheap sub now, I can guarantee you'll end up upgrading it very soon, and spending more money in the long run than if you had just waited and purchased a real subwoofer to being with. Good luck, though.

So for a room this size, what would you recommend if price were no object?

So for a room this size, what would you recommend if price were no object?

the ed a5-350 $600 shipped the best value out there

What about an HSU sub?

Hsu makes excellent subs. I'm assuming you've decided not to put your sub in the cabinet - 9" wide doesn't allow for a very big sub at all. I don't know if your budget has expanded at all, but Outlaw Audio's LFM-1 EX subwoofer (very comparable to the Hsu VTF-3 Mk 3, but better looking and downfiring) is going for $549 right now. That's a great price. Whether you can afford that or not is another story. It's also somewhat large, but the cabinet is very nice looking.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lfmEX.html

Again the price is higher than you wanted. That room is just really big to try to fill for under $300. Good luck.

Yes, 9" isn't big enough. At this point I'm strongly considering the H-100. Is this a good sub for the money?

Yes, 9" isn't big enough. At this point I'm strongly considering the H-100. Is this a good sub for the money?

For its price, it seems to be the most highly recommended subwoofer out there. In a smaller room, I'd have absolutely no hesitation in recommending the Bic H-100. It's just that your room is so big it might not be able to perform as well as you'd like. It all depends on your listening habits and expectations, really. If you want your sub to be able to shake you and be visceral with movies, chances are the Bic won't cut it for you in your room. However, if you just want to fill out the bottom end and add some bass at moderate volume levels, it will probably do just fine. As long as you don't expect to be listening at 100+ dB, I think the Bic will probably do a decent job - it just won't have much headroom in that room, so you won't really be able to crank it without the subwoofer making its limitations obvious.

You're beginning to convince me. Okay so given my room size, would you go with (1) LFM-1 EX's or (2) LFM-2's?

kcrossley2,

Just want to make sure you know I'm not trying to pressure you into a bigger sub. Ultimately, it's up to you what kind of sub you want, and you know your own listening habits far better than any of us could. That said, I think that one LFM-1 EX could do quite well for you in that room. Again, it's not that the Bic H-100 won't work, but I think you'll find it will come up quite a bit short of the "home theater" experience. If that's not what you're looking for, the Bic will be great. On the other hand, the LFM-1 EX will likely be able to produce a quality theater experience for you in a pretty large room. Keep in mind that in addition to more sheer output, it will also be far more accurate, have better deep extension, and just flat out sound better - with music or with movies. At $549, it's a great deal. Sure, you could get an eD for that price or a little cheaper that will be just as powerful, but the LFM-1 EX is a looker IMO. The eD's unfortunately leave much to be desired in terms of aesthetics.

To more specifically answer your question about whether you should go with one LFM-1 EX or two LFM-2's, I'd say go for one LFM-1 EX. It's just a far more capable sub, and though you could stack two LFM-2's to give similar output, the LFM-1 EX would still handily beat a pair of LFM-2's in deep extension. Furthermore, if for some reason in the future you became really addicted to bass and wanted to upgrade, it would make more sense to add one more LFM-1 EX rather than even more LFM-2's. Obviously that scenario (if it happens) is a long way down the road. I think that given your room size and the need for a classy looking subwoofer, the LFM-1 EX is a great choice. The website picture looks ok, but I've seen user photos and the gloss black is stunning. Let us know what you think.

lalakersfan34,

Thanks for all your insight. It has been most helpful. To give you a better idea of my listening habits, I'm in the dark ages. I just purchased my first LCD television, a Samsung LNT4661F 46", and for the last 5 months my family has been listening to its built-in speakers, which in a word—suck.

I just purchased the following speakers a few days ago:
Front: Polk Monitor 30's
Center: Polk CS1
Rear: Polk Rc85i's

I was ready to order an Onkyo SR-605 receiver, when I saw the SR-805 go on sale at CC for $699. Unfortunately, I missed the special price, so I'm waiting for that deal to resurface. My wife won't let me rock the house when she's here, so most of the time we'll be watching movies at a reasonable level. Right now we have to crank the Samsung speakers up about 1/2 way just to hear the television and the clarity is horrible. I'm just looking for good, clean sound. I have no desire to rattle the windows, but I do want to get something that'll last me a while. For me, shopping for speakers has been a real pain—mainly because it seems like there are no easy answers.

With that said, would you still go with the LFM-1 EX?

BTW, the reason I ordered the smaller Polk front and center channel speakers is because they need to fit in my home entertainment system and the 40's and CS3 or 5 wouldn't. Thanks again for your help.

Kelly

Funny because I'm in a somewhat similar situation in my house. I'm actually a 22 year old college student still living at home. My HT setup is in my bedroom, and I definitely don't hold back in there (with regard to volume). But our living room is probably a good 20x25x8 and we're just using a Velodyne VX-10 (my old sub from my room - I've since upgraded to SVS PB10 and, next week, a 20-39 PC+ as well :D) as the subwoofer for a 2.1 setup. It's pretty much just used for TV watching, and for that purpose, it's fine. My mom doesn't like loud bass, so the VX-10 is great for that. But there's no way it would be able to create an even remotely believable theater experience in a room that size. The Bic would be definite step up from the VX-10, but it would still struggle to create a good, powerful home theater experience.

So again, I think it comes down to your personal listening preferences. It sounds like the wife isn't too into having earth-shattering bass, which I can relate to, as my mom isn't a fan of that either. The Bic might do fine for you, but IMO, if the price isn't a HUGE deal, the LFM-1 EX might be worth it just for the extension and much tighter, more accurate bass. You don't HAVE to play it really loud to benefit from the superior sub.

Again, headroom is something I'd consider. You might not in normal use come close to tapping the full potential of the LFM-1 EX, but the Bic at the same levels might start getting closer to its limits. At this point, the LFM-1 EX is beneficial because it will have much more headroom, allowing it to play at the same volume with much lower distortion. Plus, if the wife is ever out and you decide to have some fun by yourself, the LFM-1 EX will let you crank things up a bit ;). And the finish, IMO, really is a perk. The Bic isn't ugly, but the LFM-1 EX, while larger, really looks classy.

On another note, what makes you want the Onkyo 805 as opposed to the 605 or 705? Granted it's a higher end receiver, but are there any particular reasons? Unless you need more HDMI inputs, I can't think of many other reasons you'd need the 805. Your speakers are solid, but they aren't really expensive speakers which require loads of power, so I wouldn't worry about getting it for the bigger amps. Anyway, just my thoughts.

Stephen

On another note, what makes you want the Onkyo 805 as opposed to the 605 or 705? Granted it's a higher end receiver, but are there any particular reasons? Unless you need more HDMI inputs, I can't think of many other reasons you'd need the 805. Your speakers are solid, but they aren't really expensive speakers which require loads of power, so I wouldn't worry about getting it for the bigger amps. Anyway, just my thoughts.

Stephen

Thanks Stephen. So, you think the 605 would be fine? The only reason I was considering the 805 was because of the excellent price. If I can snag it on sale at $699 from CC, I have a 10% coupon that'll drop it down to $630. However, if a better sub will provide more overall benefit, perhaps I should put the money there instead. Your thoughts?

Another thought. What are your impressions of the Polk PSW-505?

Another thought. What are your impressions of the Polk PSW-505?

It shouldn't even be considered in the same thread as what we've been discussing thus far :rolleyes:. Polk makes good speakers, but you can do much better getting subs elsewhere.

Thanks Stephen. So, you think the 605 would be fine? The only reason I was considering the 805 was because of the excellent price. If I can snag it on sale at $699 from CC, I have a 10% coupon that'll drop it down to $630. However, if a better sub will provide more overall benefit, perhaps I should put the money there instead. Your thoughts?

As usual, I'd say it depends on your preferences. The 805 is a great receiver. The question becomes whether or not you need all of its features. With the somewhat entry level speaker setup you have, I don't think the receiver will make a huge difference in sound quality. I'd think the 605 would sound just about as good, and it can be found for around $400. However, the 705 and 805 have things the 605 doesn't. They have 3 HDMI inputs instead of 2, and they also have pre-outs. Here's my thought. If my budget were really tight and it was between either an 805 and a $300 sub, or a 605 and a $600 sub, I'd probably get the 605. Personally I'd want a sub that could give me great bass in a large room, and that's a tall order for a $300 subwoofer. But if the budget isn't completely at the limit right now, the 805 is an excellent piece of hardware - more features, significantly more amplifier power, THX Ultra2 processing - so if you have budgeted enough money to get the 805 AND a somewhat larger sub like the LFM-1 EX, then the 805 is a great decision. Hate to keep saying it, but personal taste is what matters most. If you've considered your bass needs more and found you don't require the ability to have powerful, deep bass in your large room, the Bic H-100 could do great for you, and the 805 will be an amazing receiver. I can just tell you from personal experience that quality bass is addictive and will likely have you wanting more very soon. The LFM-1 EX is a better safeguard against upgradeitus :). Good luck.

Stephen

Stephen,

I have been following this thread as well, since I am also in the market for a first time sub, and am highly considering the H-100. My room is approximately 14x14, with 8ft ceilings, do you think the H-100 is enough for this sized room? I don't need it to knock things off the wall, but if I'm going to buy a sub, I want to know it's there when I'm watching movies (which is mostly the use of that room, dedicated media room for movies, Xbox 360, and sports). That, and my budget is more in line with the H-100, but if people told me I would be better off waiting and saving up for a LFM-1 EX, then I could force myself to do so. More concerned with long term results than immediate gratification, lol, but only in this once case. ;) Thanks for any advice.

Aaron

ahwood23,

Sounds like that room is a great dedicated man-room...movies, xbox 360, and sports :D. In a room that size, the H-100 would do a pretty good job. It's certainly no slouch - there's a reason it's by far the most often recommended sub under $300 here on AVS. If you don't think you'll listen at high volumes, the H-100 should have plenty of output for you. However, many will tell you that moving up from the H-100 to a $500 or $600 sub will give you something much better. Since you've expressed that your concern is more with long term results than immediate gratification, it might be worth saving a little longer. BTW, you don't necessarily have to get the LFM-1 EX. I'm only recommending it because it's pretty good looking, a great performer (similar to a Hsu VTF-3 mk3) and it's on an excellent sale right now. If you need to save for a couple months to afford it, chance are it'll be back at regular price and I wouldn't be pushing it so strongly. Take a look at SVS, eD, Epik, Hsu, etc. Better yet, contact them. I have personal experience with SVS and eD and can say they're very helpful, won't try to oversell you, and back up their products well. Hsu and Epik are rumored to be the same way. These companies could surely help you select an excellent subwoofer for your needs.

The general consensus here is that eD gives the most bang for your buck. The reason I'm not recommending it to kcrossley2 is because it sounds as if aesthetics and WAF are somewhat important in his case. The one thing eD doesn't have going for it is that its subs are all big boxes with a textured black, almost truck bed liner finish. If looks don't matter to you, get an A2-300 or A3-300. Under $500, shipped, and you'll have plenty of bass for a room that size. Good luck, and again, contact those companies. They're really helpful.

Stephen

Lol, yes, I failed to mention that I have already ruled out any eD subs due to WAF as well. I know it sounds like a man cave, but she's up there for all the movie watching, and some of the sports as well.

In fact, if this makes any difference, I picked up a Sony SA-W3000 when it was $99 at Best Buy on BF, but mostly jumped because it was half-off, and my in-laws had given me exactly $100 to spend on myself for Christmas. Then I got home and was able to do some reading on here, and am now 2nd guessing myself.

BUT, the wife took one look at the Sony, and said, there's only that one box over there? Or something to that effect, which led to a discussion that ultimately ended up with her recommending I get the one I want, with the thought of eventually getting a "mate" for it, so that it evens out the room! Lol, what luck!

That, combined with the fact that yes, I would have to save up for the LFM-1 EX, and that would cut into my saving up for other components, notably a new AVR, mine is so old it doesn't even have any component inputs, much less HDMI, etc., or new speakers, since my fronts are mis-matched to my center (which they no longer even make, so would have to find on Ebay or some such). Yes, I know, I'm a mess for you guys, but hey, that's why I'm here, I've started to see the light!

All of that seems to lead me towards the H-100. Can you run 2 of those together? My AVR only has one sub output, is that a problem? Not yet, obviously, since I can only afford one at the moment, but once again, trying to cut off any future problems at the pass.

And lastly, lol, now that I've hijacked his thread (sorry), does anyone know of a place I can either go to hear, or an internet dealer I can trial the H-100 from? Once again, trying to make sure that's really the path I want to go down, and if I can take a listen first, that would be awesome.

Thanks for your advice!

Aaron

ahwood23,

Getting a receiver with only one subwoofer output isn't a big deal. Just use a y-splitter (one male to two female) and you should be fine. That's what I do with my two subs.

As far as running two H-100's, that should work out well. It's funny the wife's such a stickler for symmetry, but hey, every once in a while the wife's on to something good :D. One H-100 should be fine for moderate to loud volumes in that room. When you add the second, assuming you calibrate things well, your bass response should smooth out and you'll gain more output.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can get a demo of an H-100 unless you find someone that already owns one. There's no trial period or anything. I think you'll be pleased with the Bic...especially compared to that Sony you have now. Good luck.

Stephen

ahwood23,
I'm only recommending it because it's pretty good looking, a great performer (similar to a Hsu VTF-3 mk3) and it's on an excellent sale right now.

What's the regular price?

BTW, overstock.com has the H-100 on sale for $278 right now. http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Bic-Acoustech-H-100-Powered-Subwoofer/1513356/product.html

Kelly

Another subwoofer question. Why would you choose a front firing sub over a down firing sub or vice versa?

BTW, overstock.com has the H-100 on sale for $278

Mike will sell it for $240 shipped or less, $278 is way above the going price.

www.acousticsounddesign.com
Mike Embers
888-224-3663

Call Mike and offer him $240 shipped he will do it, he did for me

Mike will sell it for $240 shipped or less, $278 is way above the going price.

www.acousticsounddesign.com
Mike Embers
888-224-3663

Call Mike and offer him $240 shipped he will do it, he did for me


My understanding is they go lower on ebay but it may be worth it to go through the guy you recommend I don't know.



*******

Reading through the thread...allow me to add my thoughts


1. Going from tv speakers to a $1500+ home theater system is a big step and I encourage much reading. You might even think about opting for a 2.1 system initially or a 3.1 and get the most bang for your buck. I love my Onkyo and think you are on the right track there. Can't comment on the speakers...not much of a Polk fan but they've got a good name in the industry.

2. Chances are you've never heard good low frequency extension (aka Bass) from a quality subwoofer. Again Read. You have a big room and as already well noted, a $300 sub likely won't do much.

3. You also have to take into account that a lot the posters in these forums don't screw around with entry-level systems (sub $1500 systems) so you are going to get a lot of "that won't work" yada yada. This isn't to be mean or whatever...in most cases people are offering good advice but that doesn't mean it's going to suit your needs, level of interest in a "good" system with good bass response, and budget requirements. Everyone starts out at ground zero it's where you go from there that makes the difference. I've went from thinking I knew a lot about this stuff to coming to this board and realizing very quickly that I have a lot to learn. It's fun but addictive & expensive...AVS has cost me about $6500.00 over the past year :)

kcrossley2,

The regular price for the LFM-1 EX is $649, so it's $100 off right now.

It's fun but addictive & expensive...AVS has cost me about $6500.00 over the past year :)

Great, way to scare them off!! Seriously though, Hunter844's right. People have completely different opinions of what will and will not be acceptable performance from a HT. Many people are content with a $250 HTIB, while others aren't happy until they've spent $10,000 or more on audio. Take what people say with a grain of salt.

That said, I'm a realistic guy when it comes to budget constraints (as evidenced by the fact that I didn't immediately recommend dual JL113's or something). If I were loaded with money, you could bet I'd be looking at high end stuff. As it is, I'm running a modest setup with a Pioneer Elite receiver, a JBL 7.1 setup, and SVS and Infinity subwoofers (about to become two SVS subwoofers in a couple weeks), all in a small 11x10 room. I still believe for a room that size, you'll really appreciate the extra output, depth, and precision the LFM-1 EX offers over the Bic H-100. If money is really tight, the Bic will do a decent job, but for home theater impact, the LFM-1 EX or another larger, more powerful subwoofer will be necessary. I also heartily agree with Hunter844's comment about may people not knowing what they're missing with deep bass. Cheap subs simply don't reproduce it, but once you've experienced it, you realize how much it adds to a soundtrack. It pressurizes the room, adds a tactile, almost physical presence...it's addicting! A larger, more expensive subwoofer like the LFM-1 EX will give you a good dose of this infrasonic bass - it just creates a presence that can't be explained.

Anyway, best of luck in your decision. Definitely look at as many options as you can. Maybe you don't need that kind of bass, in which case, save your money and enjoy the Bic! It's an excellent budget sub. But take it from me - once you hear great subs, you won't ever go back.

Good advice. I just ordered an Onkyo SR-605 based on our conversation. I'm hesitant to get the LFM-1 EX, only because of the price. Perhaps I'll have to save up and go sans sub for the time being. Thanks again.

Kelly

Why would you choose a front firing sub over a down firing sub or vice versa?

Many people are content with a $250 HTIB, while others aren't happy until they've spent $10,000 or more on audio.

Dont get caught up in the you have to spend tons of money mind set, my last HT had 6k on the audio side and my new one has $840 and to my ears Im getting about 90% of the performance and Im happy as a clam! Now I did get a killer deal on my speakers so shopping around can have a very large impact on what you will have to spend, remember there are ALWAYS killer deals to be had.

Its my view you run into the wall of diminishing returns very quickly with audio gear. I think too many its an ego thing when they start spending crap loads of $$$ on their audio gear not that there is anything wrong with that, if you have the $$$ money and it makes you feel good go for it. :)