set2374
11-27-07, 01:31 PM
Yesterday, I received my Dayton Sub-120 in the mail, which I was planning to use in a bedroom application (dear wife saw the size of it and now it's going to my uncle's living room application or I may just swap it into my den and move my X-sub to the bedroom... although that pains me a bit). Price paid: $139 delivered, from Parts Express. I have had the AV123 X-Sub for 10 months (approx) and I purchased it directly from AV123 online.
By way of background: My Den set up includes:
Polk Monitor 70 Fronts, Polk CS1 Center, Polk Monitor 30 sides and rear satellites, Pioneer vsx-1016 avr, Sony Bravia 40S2500, Oppo DVD and Dennon CD (10 years old, but best I have ever owned), AV123 X-Sub.
The Dayton Sub-120
The Sub-120 is VERY impressive in my opinion. Yes, it is a bit boomy at first. However, I think this is because most people are setting the fade too high. With my M70's, I set the fade at 2 O'clock and found that it was still a bit much, so I toned it back down to 12 o'clock, set the crossover to 180 on the sub, and avr crossover to 80. I then dialed back the power to the sub from the avr to -1.5 on the Pioneer 1016 and it blended perfectly with my set up. No stocking stuffers in the ports needed (a fix that has been frequently suggested).
The Test
I put on War of the Worlds in my Oppo upconverting dvd and skipped to the scene where the machines rise from the earth. Unbelieveable power from this $140 sub!!!! With the volume on the avr set to reference level (0 on the pioneer), when the fog horn sounded, two pictures fell off the wall, the windows rattled and my dear wife started screaming (although I had to lip read because you couldn't hear her over the wonderful rumble). My den happens to be on the smaller side, 17.5'' x 14". In a room this size, I think I would probably be very happy with the Sub-100, although I would like the option of using the additional available power on the Sub-120 when I feel the urge.
By comparison, the X-Sub, although it cost $60 more, is an 8'' woofer compared to the 12" in the Sub-120. It has the same 150 watts max power. That being said, it doesn't have the umph that the Sub-120 has. Even at max power, it's not knocking pictures of the wall or rattling the windows to the point where you worry about cracking glass.
On the Sub-120, I noticed no delay using the auto on feature, which is great for an entry sub. In fairness, the X-Sub doesn't have any delay either, although I can't say the same for the Velodyne VX-10, Polk PSW10 or 12 and certainly not the same for any of the Sony subs (I haven't had a chance to mess around with the BIC H-100). For music, I put on Fleetwood Mac's HD performance which I dvr'ed a few weeks ago off Rave. On the Sub-120, you can feel the bass and drums pounding in your gut. The sound was surprisingly musical, not just a booming, muddy pound like most entry subs exhibit. As my next test demonstrated, the Sub-120 is, however, not as musical as the X-sub. On my next test, I put on Blue Man Group's 2004 concert dvd, which includes some very challenging bass passages which are a great test for determining the quality of a sub (I bring this dvd to the showrooms with me). The response on the Sub-120 didn't match up quite as well as the X-Sub... this may be where the power to size ratio on the X-sub starts to make a difference. Although I (because of massive complaints from my other half), I didn't have a chance to whip out my SPL meter, I can say that the X-Sub and Sub 120 aren't too far apart, with a slight edge possibly going to the X-Sub. Blue Man is tough material though and it's rare that subs will be challenged like this. I also don't want to necessarily give the edge to the X-Sub today because I have had 10 months to break it in and the Sub-120 was right out of the box.
I will say though, I am super impressed with the Dayton products and am really comfortable recommending them here. In the past I have also auditioned entry level polk subs (PSW10, PSW12, PSW303), Sony Ps-W2500, PS-W3000, none of which come close to the X-Sub or Dayton Sub-120. The Polks are merely "OK", but they are all underpowered IMO and, while I didn't find them to be as muddy as some other people find them, I think you can do a lot better for the money. The Sony's are total garbage... so no need to say any more on them. However, when it comes to subs, sony is just total garbage. I could find no fix that could remedy the boominess and, while they may be able to handle movie effects, using them with music is offensive to the ear.
For subs $200 and under, I am going give the Sub 120 an 8.5 out of 10 and the AV123 gets an 8 out 10. I think I'll be moving the X-sub to bedroom duty (it's a better fit size-wise) and the Sub-120 to the den. I did have a Velodyne VX-10 for a little while and loved it while it workd. Unfortunately, I blew the amp one year after purchase, so I am not a huge fan (I don't really listen at excessive volumes or for prolonged periods of time... so I would attribute the failure to manufacturing defect).
[Updated 12/10/07] I have had the Dayton Sub-120 for a few more weeks now and have put it through its the ringer. I have discovered the boominess that others have complained about, particularly in music application. It does really well in the 28-32HZ range and then there is roll off above 32Hz, which is really noticeable in songs with nuanced bass... jazz and classical. For dance, hip hop, and heavy rock, it's fine. I have tightened the bass up by lowering the crossover to 60 hz and stuffing one of the ports with a t-shirt temporarily. I have taken the unit a part and it is lacking on insulation. I added some poly-fill which seems to have helped a little. I don't think the "boominess" is enough to bother most people, particularly in HT application. I still highly recommend the Sub-120 for the money, but I will have to downgrade the rating a bit for use in nuanced bass music. I would add though that if you have any DIY asperations, this is a great starter platform. I think I am going to order a Dayton Reference HF 12" sub (now $138) and a Bash 300 ($150) or Dayton 240 Amp ($99) when they go on sale. The box on the Sub-120 is the same dimensions as the Dayton Reference 12" (which lists for $700). Drop the Reference woofer and a Bash 300 or 240 and I'll have a Reference clone for half the price.
By way of background: My Den set up includes:
Polk Monitor 70 Fronts, Polk CS1 Center, Polk Monitor 30 sides and rear satellites, Pioneer vsx-1016 avr, Sony Bravia 40S2500, Oppo DVD and Dennon CD (10 years old, but best I have ever owned), AV123 X-Sub.
The Dayton Sub-120
The Sub-120 is VERY impressive in my opinion. Yes, it is a bit boomy at first. However, I think this is because most people are setting the fade too high. With my M70's, I set the fade at 2 O'clock and found that it was still a bit much, so I toned it back down to 12 o'clock, set the crossover to 180 on the sub, and avr crossover to 80. I then dialed back the power to the sub from the avr to -1.5 on the Pioneer 1016 and it blended perfectly with my set up. No stocking stuffers in the ports needed (a fix that has been frequently suggested).
The Test
I put on War of the Worlds in my Oppo upconverting dvd and skipped to the scene where the machines rise from the earth. Unbelieveable power from this $140 sub!!!! With the volume on the avr set to reference level (0 on the pioneer), when the fog horn sounded, two pictures fell off the wall, the windows rattled and my dear wife started screaming (although I had to lip read because you couldn't hear her over the wonderful rumble). My den happens to be on the smaller side, 17.5'' x 14". In a room this size, I think I would probably be very happy with the Sub-100, although I would like the option of using the additional available power on the Sub-120 when I feel the urge.
By comparison, the X-Sub, although it cost $60 more, is an 8'' woofer compared to the 12" in the Sub-120. It has the same 150 watts max power. That being said, it doesn't have the umph that the Sub-120 has. Even at max power, it's not knocking pictures of the wall or rattling the windows to the point where you worry about cracking glass.
On the Sub-120, I noticed no delay using the auto on feature, which is great for an entry sub. In fairness, the X-Sub doesn't have any delay either, although I can't say the same for the Velodyne VX-10, Polk PSW10 or 12 and certainly not the same for any of the Sony subs (I haven't had a chance to mess around with the BIC H-100). For music, I put on Fleetwood Mac's HD performance which I dvr'ed a few weeks ago off Rave. On the Sub-120, you can feel the bass and drums pounding in your gut. The sound was surprisingly musical, not just a booming, muddy pound like most entry subs exhibit. As my next test demonstrated, the Sub-120 is, however, not as musical as the X-sub. On my next test, I put on Blue Man Group's 2004 concert dvd, which includes some very challenging bass passages which are a great test for determining the quality of a sub (I bring this dvd to the showrooms with me). The response on the Sub-120 didn't match up quite as well as the X-Sub... this may be where the power to size ratio on the X-sub starts to make a difference. Although I (because of massive complaints from my other half), I didn't have a chance to whip out my SPL meter, I can say that the X-Sub and Sub 120 aren't too far apart, with a slight edge possibly going to the X-Sub. Blue Man is tough material though and it's rare that subs will be challenged like this. I also don't want to necessarily give the edge to the X-Sub today because I have had 10 months to break it in and the Sub-120 was right out of the box.
I will say though, I am super impressed with the Dayton products and am really comfortable recommending them here. In the past I have also auditioned entry level polk subs (PSW10, PSW12, PSW303), Sony Ps-W2500, PS-W3000, none of which come close to the X-Sub or Dayton Sub-120. The Polks are merely "OK", but they are all underpowered IMO and, while I didn't find them to be as muddy as some other people find them, I think you can do a lot better for the money. The Sony's are total garbage... so no need to say any more on them. However, when it comes to subs, sony is just total garbage. I could find no fix that could remedy the boominess and, while they may be able to handle movie effects, using them with music is offensive to the ear.
For subs $200 and under, I am going give the Sub 120 an 8.5 out of 10 and the AV123 gets an 8 out 10. I think I'll be moving the X-sub to bedroom duty (it's a better fit size-wise) and the Sub-120 to the den. I did have a Velodyne VX-10 for a little while and loved it while it workd. Unfortunately, I blew the amp one year after purchase, so I am not a huge fan (I don't really listen at excessive volumes or for prolonged periods of time... so I would attribute the failure to manufacturing defect).
[Updated 12/10/07] I have had the Dayton Sub-120 for a few more weeks now and have put it through its the ringer. I have discovered the boominess that others have complained about, particularly in music application. It does really well in the 28-32HZ range and then there is roll off above 32Hz, which is really noticeable in songs with nuanced bass... jazz and classical. For dance, hip hop, and heavy rock, it's fine. I have tightened the bass up by lowering the crossover to 60 hz and stuffing one of the ports with a t-shirt temporarily. I have taken the unit a part and it is lacking on insulation. I added some poly-fill which seems to have helped a little. I don't think the "boominess" is enough to bother most people, particularly in HT application. I still highly recommend the Sub-120 for the money, but I will have to downgrade the rating a bit for use in nuanced bass music. I would add though that if you have any DIY asperations, this is a great starter platform. I think I am going to order a Dayton Reference HF 12" sub (now $138) and a Bash 300 ($150) or Dayton 240 Amp ($99) when they go on sale. The box on the Sub-120 is the same dimensions as the Dayton Reference 12" (which lists for $700). Drop the Reference woofer and a Bash 300 or 240 and I'll have a Reference clone for half the price.