<seinfeld>What is the deal with this?</seinfeld>

I went into a high-end shop here in Houston a while back, to see if they had a Toshiba HD-XA2, as I had been looking all over for one. I'm greeted by one of the salesmen, and I ask him about the XA2. His response is "Well no we don't carry them. But look at this Blu-ray and how great it looks!" I told him I was simply looking for that specific player and didn't want to argue about the formats, but he continued on "Did you know Blu-ray has a 5x better picture than HD-DVD?" I told him again I didn't want to argue about it (pretty crazy for me :p) and left.

I currently own both HDM formats pretty equally (XA2 + BD30), but it bothered me that this store didn't even carry HD-DVD players, and tried to convince me of a 5x better picture quality (totally baseless number) for Blu-ray just because that's what they sold. They can carry $5,000 AVRs, but can't stock a few HD-XA2s? Am I missing something? Does Toshiba charge too much to become an authorized dealer?

I didn't include the name of the place on purpose, as the point wasn't to razz a specific store, but this is a pretty well known place in the Houston area. I hear their ad on the radio all the time and it bugs me that a place with so much pull can sell someone a $50,000 home theater without a HD-DVD player. Does anyone else notice this (with either format) at high-end shops in their areas?

These "best buy" type stories are really getting tiring. We've heard them all. If you want a XA2, check the HD DVD forums for possible deals online stores have.

These "best buy" type stories are really getting tiring. We've heard them all. If you want a XA2, check the HD DVD forums for possible deals online stores have.
It wasn't a "Best Buy" type story. And I own an XA2 now. It was a question about the custom HT shops. If the thread tires you, then feel free not to post in it.

Yes - this was announced at CEDIA. Just do a search in any of the CEDIA threads. Unfortunately the market they cater to is the smallest one on the scale

Sales people and installers are always going to try to talk people into something more expensive. Nothing new there.

Sales people and installers are always going to try to talk people into something more expensive. Nothing new there.
Well not necessarily more expensive, but with more margin... I'm no dealer but I'd be willing to bet the margin on both format's players are pretty close. Can anyone speak to the costs of becoming an authorized dealer?

I am a salesman for audio dimensions in okc, ok and we sell the lg bh200 because its to early for us to pick a side and risk one of them failing because that would be bad for us in the long run. we install about 2-5 players a week and 4 or 5 pioneer players a month. the customers we get barely even no what high def is they have millions of dollars to spend so we just give them the best depending on what there budget is. I own both formats and so do a couple of our employees but when a customer does come in and we mention hd dvd and bluray 9 times out of 10 they have heard of bluray and not hddvd but after you tell them about both formats on how they are very similar they always say those 3 words that piss us off.....beta vs vhs. but cedia and cepro which are organizations that shops like us belong too suport more bluray than hddvd

that is the stores that are part of that association which are thet tiny ones.

Most of them that I know of are BR supporters because they don't carry HD DVD aka Toshiba. Toshiba isn't exactly a brand you correlate with custom HD shops.

If it was a Tweeter. They have seemed to taken the Blu-ray side. Mostly because of margin and revenue.

...I went into a high-end shop...
If it was a Tweeter...
Oxymoron:D

Most of them that I know of are BR supporters because they don't carry HD DVD aka Toshiba. Toshiba isn't exactly a brand you correlate with custom HD shops.

This is likely the answer (just change BR to BD;)). With only one low margin brand (which has a WalMart closeout stigmatization) for HD DVD (Toshiba) it doesnt offer much of an incentive for boutique shops to carry HD DVD.

What shop was it?

These "best buy" type stories are really getting tiring. We've heard them all.

The OP was talking about a high end shop. I don't know what kind of shops they have in your neck of the woods, but in mine, Best Buy wouldn't be mistaken as a high end shop.

A shop in the cincy area really favors BD. I won't name names, but I know the cincy residents who post here (Everdog) know who I'm talking about.

The custom installers are biased and have chosen blu-ray as was announced in the last public CEDIA show. The street pricing of players such as HD-A2 likely has something to do with it as it leaves no room for their normal operating profits.

I was in a very good custom A/V store in Miami this week and they had the LG dual format player, from which they were playing demos of both formats.

They have taken the very responsible approach that Dual format is the way to go. Their typical clientelle wouldn't care that the player costs $600 more than the single format options.

Any A/V high end store that tries to ram a single format onto their clientelle is NOT helping their customer, only trying to justify their own Hubris... IMO.

The custom installers are biased and have chosen blu-ray as was announced in the last public CEDIA show. The street pricing of players such as HD-A2 likely has something to do with it as it leaves no room for their normal operating profits.

That sounds just plain incompetent, both from a technical as well as a business viewpoint. You can't play all the movies without both formats so not having both formats is just hopeless for a custom installation. And while they could install the cheapest HD DVD player, they could also install an A35 or XA2, with greater profit plus additional installation fees. That's just stupid.

aaarrrggghhh!!!

You guys know were not supposed to be starting these "anecdotal" observation threads, nothing good ever comes of them. Nine times out of ten they just come off as FUD. Wanna be labeled a fudster? Start one of these threads. We've all been here to long to take them seriously.

cedia and cepro which are organizations that shops like us belong too suport more bluray than hddvd

Why is that ?

Art

Hey,

I've seen news reports of custom installer shops going with only Blu Ray.

Also some big stores like BJ's have chosen only Blu Ray.

For now though you can count on WalMart and Bestbuy to continue to carry HD DVD. There's only a hand full of models by Toshiba (I see 4 total stand alone players listed on the official HD DVD website) so buying a HD DVD player should be pretty easy. Just compare the feature set and head over to WalMart or BestBuy.

-Brian

<seinfeld>What is the deal with this?</seinfeld>

His response is "Well no we don't carry them. But look at this Blu-ray and how great it looks!" I told him I was simply looking for that specific player and didn't want to argue about the formats, but he continued on "Did you know Blu-ray has a 5x better picture than HD-DVD?" I told him again I didn't want to argue about it (pretty crazy for me :p) and left.


I believe their choice was due to higher margins on BD players (at least the BD models they carry). All else being equal, smaller chains and independants will always choose to support/carry items with the highest profit margins, regardless of technical issues involved. Just my experience in A/V and electronics/computer equipment since the 80's.

My belief is that this is not a "fair" war unless all studios went format neutral. By splitting so many releases to one format or the other, the war won't be decided by technical, functional or cost merits, but by the subjective tastes of buyers in software content. Or the division will kill both.

Higher margins, plus better mainstream brands (Sony and Pioneer) over mainstream Toshiba. I took my A20 to a custom end shop to audition some speakers that instantly said Toshiba players have bad sound. Their cheapest receiver (I know. I know. True audiohpiles do pre-amp/processor w/ an amp not a receiver.) was a Cambridge Audio that didn't even accept PCM over HDMI. They said quite frankly the whole Blu-Ray/HD-DVD thing is a mess that they won't touch. They were impressed by the picture of Transformers. However, the sound (not Toshiba's fault in this case, since it was DTS over optical.) left me wanting. If I had brought an Integra player in their eyes would've probably lit up. :rolleyes:

Installers are all about margins. They figure people more willing to spend $1k or more on a high def optical player won't bat an eye at spending $3k on installation or $1k on speaker cable.

Well I can tell you the reason. I work at a custom shop in Newmarket, ON and we only display BR. We can sell both, but only advertise BR and mainly sell BR.

The reason being is there is no money to be made on HD players. The margin on them is so low there is advantage what so ever from a business standpoint to sell them.

If a customer wants one, we can order one in. But from a money making, commision based standpoint, BR is a better sell.


And this is from a guy who only owns HDDVD and 25 discs...no bd.

Well I can tell you the reason. I work at a custom shop in Newmarket, ON and we only display BR. We can sell both, but only advertise BR and mainly sell BR.

The reason being is there is no money to be made on HD players. The margin on them is so low there is advantage what so ever from a business standpoint to sell them.

If a customer wants one, we can order one in. But from a money making, commision based standpoint, BR is a better sell.


And this is from a guy who only owns HDDVD and 25 discs...no bd.

Thanks for your frank response,this is ,however, exactly what I thought was the reason but expected a pile of feces that I'd have to argue with.:D

Art

Just yesterday I walked into an HT shop that I discovered at lunch. I walked in, very VERY high end store with Marantz, Rotel and Pioneer Elite equipment to name a few. Looking around I noticed they did not have a SINGLE HD DVD or Blu-ray player in the showroom. I did, however, find just one of those Sony HDNA promotional stand (the small cardboard one that BB and CC puts on top of their TVs). I figured with a store that, in the front, has signs of Pioneer Elite and Sony I would find a lot more Blu-ray players in there but all of HDM was MIA. I didn't get to ask why as I was on lunch and the saleslady was busy with a customer. Looking at the front entrance catalogs it appears you could order anything from either side, they just don't display any of it in their show room.

The reason being is there is no money to be made on HD players. The margin on them is so low there is advantage what so ever from a business standpoint to sell them.

If a customer wants one, we can order one in. But from a money making, commision based standpoint, BR is a better sell.

Is the margin so low on an XA2 or A35 that they aren't worthwhile to sell? Do you have to install them for free or do you give a big discount on installation because they have low price margins? I'm really curious since I would have thought you could charge a lot "more" for "integrating" 2 players and therefore make a lot more profit.

I don't think high end HT shops are gonna make a huge dent in this going one way or the other. For every single person that gets his/her HT stuff from/installed by such a place...well...how many are buying their HT gear (in whatever price/performance level) from the 2 biggest electronics merchants in the US (WM & BB)?

I would think that high end installers would rather supply dual format players, just to cover their butts (and return business) in the future.

High end stores carry don't carry products; they carry brands. My guess is Toshiba is not one of them, as it generally isn't considered "high end." Was the player he was showing you the Pioneer Elite?

Well I can tell you the reason. I work at a custom shop in Newmarket, ON and we only display BR. We can sell both, but only advertise BR and mainly sell BR.

The reason being is there is no money to be made on HD players. The margin on them is so low there is advantage what so ever from a business standpoint to sell them.

I could understand this on the HD-A2 and HD-A3, but I would think the margins on the higher end Toshiba models (HD-XA2 for example) would be better.