I am thinking about driving 75 miles north to Vancouver to pick up a DVD recorder with a built-in hard drive (is the proper acronym "HD/DVDR"?). I am not concerned at all about the tuner not working because I use my DirecTiVo Series 2 Samsung and DirecTV HR20-700 for my over-the-air TV viewing.

I have narrowed down my choices to either the Pioneer DVR-550H-K (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_32252751_457433468,00.html) (160 gb HDD, $405US @ Future Shop (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10088439&catid=24856&logon=&langid=EN) thru 11/29) or Panasonic DMR-EH55 (http://www.panasonic.ca/english/audiovideo/dvdvcr/recorder/dmreh55.asp) (200 gb HDD, $556US @ Future Shop (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10071880&catid=22226&logon=&langid=EN) thru 11/29). I'm not concerned about the Pioneer's smaller hard drive as I will use either model to transfer some 6 hour tapes (recorded in EP/SLP) to DVD for my mom. These are not copy-protected tapes and the shows are things like "Bob Newhart" or "Columbo" etc. The Panasonic seems to have the edge in that it records 500 lines of resolution in LP mode vs. 250 lines in "conventional" recording (I'm paraphrasing from the EH55 web page). Will the Pioneer "only" record 250 lines in LP? I understand that I won't be able to clean up the VHS tape image regardless of the model but I would like to get as much content on each disc.

I think HDD DVDR is the proper acronym.

BTW, since you are buying it in Canada, even though you don't need it, the tuner WILL work because US and Canada use the same broadcast system (NTSC-M).

IMHO, since your tapes are recorded at EP/SLP, I don't think you have to worry about the resolution of the recorder since either will exceed the resolution of the tapes. But you might want the increased resolution of the Panasonic for recording other things. I think that the LP resolution of the new Panasonics looks great, as long as there is not a lot of fast movement.

If you do this, please let us know if you get stopped at the border for attempting to smuggle into the US a contraband video recording device with an illegal tuner, and that the recorder was confiscated... :D

3 years ago when I was researching DVD recorders, I settled on a Panasonic. The ES series then. I was mostly impressed by the very good LP recording quality. It seemed nearly all DVD recorders I tested did very well in the SP (2hr) mode, but most looked quite awful in the 4 hr LP mode. I tested Sony, LG, Pioneer, and a host of <$149 cheapo's. That said, I did alot of my early recording on the LP mode, only to be later disapointed. It seems I did all of my comparisons on still images, since it was easier to compare quality. Later when watching video with alot of quick movements I realized I had made a mistake in using the LP mode. Through alot of testing I figured about the most a person could get on a regular dvd was 3 hrs using the FR mode. Again LP was fine for video without alot of movement(unless Pixilazation or Macro blocking does not bother you, it bugs me). I wouldnt even consider EP6 or ep8 unless I was recording maby a news program or such when PQ is of no consideration. I have had quite good luck copying VHS to DVD using the LP speed though, looks about as good as the SP master.
Good luck with the EH series. Dont know anything about it, but I would stay away from the EZ series, even though they do not make one with a HDD, I had 3 and they all died within 1 month with U99 errors and ate my DVD's. I think there totally unrealiable. Good PQ but several bugs with timer recordings and as said TOTALLY unreliable.

I can't comment on the Pioneer but the Panasonic EH-67 I have does a great job recording laserdiscs I have to DVD-R using the LP speed. Flexible recording on the Panasonic E-80 I have works fine up to about 160-165 minutes (an image of about 705X480). When you want to put up to 4 hours 20 minutes on a DVD-R, nothing beats the LP speed. I also think the Panasonic's built-in TBC sometimes improves the image quality of my recordings, but I wouldn't take that impression to the bank.

If you do this, please let us know if you get stopped at the border for attempting to smuggle into the US a contraband video recording device with an illegal tuner, and that the recorder was confiscated... :D

I think that you are joking here but, seriously, what is the likelihood of ICE (http://www.ice.gov/) stopping me and confiscating the machine (I think low but who knows)? I will be in and out of Vancouver in under 2 hours. Does anyone know whether I can still enter Canada without a passport?

jjeff - I had never really considered the Panasonic EZ series but thanks for bringing that up.

I don't know if I'll be able to make the trip today and Future Shop's sale ends today so I might just wait for the Christmas sale(s). Thanks for the excellent advice.

I think that you are joking here but, seriously, what is the likelihood of ICE (http://www.ice.gov/) stopping me and confiscating the machine (I think low but who knows)? I will be in and out of Vancouver in under 2 hours. Does anyone know whether I can I still enter Canada without a passport?


I think the chances are low, but you have to recognize there is some risk. Whether you chose to declare you purchase at the U.S. border is up to you. At any rate, they will know that you were only in Canada for a few hours. You can still enter Canada without a passport via ground travel (the passport is mandatory for both the U.S. and Canada via air travel). You should be carrying a birth certificate and at least 1 piece of photo I.D. if entering Canada without a passport.

I think that you are joking here but, seriously, what is the likelihood of ICE (http://www.ice.gov/) stopping me and confiscating the machine (I think low but who knows)? I will be in and out of Vancouver in under 2 hours. Does anyone know whether I can I still enter Canada without a passport?
I think he was joking also, but just in case, carry this section of the FCC Rule 15 on digital tunered devices (http://sujan.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2007/2/909/), which specifically says that the "Responsible Parties" for NOT shipping analog-tunered devices in interstate commerce (affects U.S. only) is manufacturers and importers (+ retailers and modifiers IF they officially take responsibility from the other two... so far, no one has been that stupid?).

Gilles, Good luck on your purchase. Too bad us free... americans, we have to resort to crossing the border to buy a dvd recorder with a hard drive! I myself am also in the market for one, although I would like one with the new Digital tuner, like the Panny EZ series. Maby I would have more luck with it, than the 2 ez17's and 1 ez27 that I have tried. I'm on my 2nd ez27, it's been almost 2 weeks and seems to be working....I really love the ASTC tuner record quality. Not HD, but pretty good, and it's also in WS.
Also on the border crossing, I think a person is able to bring back something like $500?? worth of merchandise without having to pay a duty. Not positive on the exact $$$ and I'm also not sure if there is a minimum time required to stay in Canada for the exemption. I know on liquor I think you must be in canada for 48?? hrs. P.S. isnt Future Shop owned by Best Buy? I think I remember from my trip to Thunder Bay ON, that they sold Insignia products, which I think is a BB exclusive.

Gerrytwo-You said 160-165 min. for best quality. Is there really a big difference between 3hrs(180 min) and 160 min? I guess I didnt really try all the different times in FR, I just noticed a big difference in macro blocking between LP 4hrs, and FR 3hrs. I suppose if there was a big difference between the 2, I could try and use 160 min (if possible) when best PQ is required.

I don't know if I'll be able to make the trip today and Future Shop's sale ends today so I might just wait for the Christmas sale(s).You could always order an international Pioneer here in the US from www.world-import.com ot www.bhphotovideo.com. They have NTSC M tuners which will work here. (you need to also order the $5.00 "RF adapter" to hook up the cable or antenna coax).

They have Pannies, too, but they only have PAL/SECAM tuners (which it doesn't sound like that matters to you, anyway).

Best bang for the buck for current Panasonics, such as the EH55 is the LP speed, which gives you about 4:20.

The previous technology, including the E85H, had the optimum at FR 2:59.

And before that, including the E100, about FR 2:18 or 2:19.

And, yes, Best Buy and Futureshop are essentially the same company in Canada. Futureshop is commission based, and Best Buy has salaried employees.

I think he was joking also, but just in case, carry this section of the FCC Rule 15 on digital tunered devices (http://sujan.hallikainen.org/FCC/FccRules/2007/2/909/), which specifically says that the "Responsible Parties" for NOT shipping analog-tunered devices in interstate commerce (affects U.S. only) is manufacturers and importers (+ retailers and modifiers IF they officially take responsibility from the other two... so far, no one has been that stupid?).

I have read and re-read the above FCC Sec. 2.909 link and it appears to be mainly addressing the radio frequency issue, not the legality of an individual transporting (importing?) an HDD/DVDR into the U.S. I could be wrong. Jjeff brings up an interesting point on the minimum time required to stay and I hadn't thought about possible import duties. Where could I ask to get these points clarified?

I wasn't able to make it for the last day of Future Shop's sale but the Panasonic DMR-EH57 (http://www.world-import.com/dmr-eh57.htm) from World-Import might be a simpler alternative. $500US vs. $556 for the DMR-EH55 and no hassling with ICE. Btw, the World-Import.com page for the EH57 says that it has an NTSC-M tuner.

Thanks for all the excellent advice + suggestions.:)

[QUOTE=
Gerrytwo-You said 160-165 min. for best quality. Is there really a big difference between 3hrs(180 min) and 160 min? I guess I didnt really try all the different times in FR, I just noticed a big difference in macro blocking between LP 4hrs, and FR 3hrs. I suppose if there was a big difference between the 2, I could try and use 160 min (if possible) when best PQ is required.[/QUOTE]

When the E-80 was just out in 2003, there were postings about the maximum flexible recording length of time to still get the equivalent of a D1 image (720 X 480). The change in image when I used a longer FR length showed up on screen captures I made form the recodings using PowerDVD. From a full frame image screen capture made under the 165 minute threshold to a squished image screen capture with recordings made above that length. In other words, the image goes from SP quality to the old LP quality, which is nothing to write home about on the Panasonic E-80.

Btw, the World-Import.com page for the EH57 says that it has an NTSC-M tuner.Nope. It plays and records NTSC to and from DVD's and the hard drive, but the actual, internal tuner doesn't include NTSC. Read further on down the page, where it specifies the tuners. So if you ever need or want the NTSC tuner built-in, you'd have to get one of the Pio's instead.

If you did get a Pio, you certainly wouldn't be giving up anything. They're also excellent and every bit as good as the Pannies.

Anyhow, let us know how what you think of your purchase, whichever model you get.

Nope. It plays and records NTSC to and from DVD's and the hard drive, but the actual, internal tuner doesn't include NTSC. Read further on down the page, where it specifies the tuners. So if you ever need or want the NTSC tuner built-in, you'd have to get one of the Pio's instead.

Right you are! I don't know how I missed or, rather, mis-read that info. on the World-Import page. I also checked Panasonic Australia's page (http://panasonic.com.au/products/specifications.cfm?objectID=3898) for the EH57 and it does indeed have only a PAL "TV Tuner Receiving System".

So, is the consensus here that LP recording quality on the Pioneer DVR-550 about the same as the Panasonic DMR-EH55? If it is then I shall go with the Pioneer DVR-650 from Future Shop (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10088440&catid=24856&logon=&langid=EN#MoreInfo) for $400US (sale ends Thursday, Dec. 6).

I've never had a Pio myself, so I really couldn't say, although the people here who have them here swear by them and love theirs. I have two Pannies, though, and the LP mode (that's the 3-hr. mode) on the Pannies is generally regarded as the best of any recorder. From what I've gathered here, they're pretty equal up to that. At least enough so that the average person wouldn't see a difference. So if you're going to use LP a lot, I might be inclined to go with the Panny, although I'm sure the Pio's LP mode is pretty good, also. However, if you plan on using the lowest quality recording mode, and I think you said you were, that's pretty much equally terrible on all recorders, so it doesn't probably matter which you choose.

Maybe there's someone here who's actually compared the two head-to-head that can chime in.

Funny thing - I actually passed by a few blocks away from where World-Import is located late last night. If it hadn't have been closed, I would've stopped there to check the recorders out in person. Might've even bought one of them there Pio's for myself.

(edit: WHOA!! I just looked at the DVR-650 from FS and I didn't realize it was the 250GB HDD model! In that case, for that price, I'd definitely go for that one!)