While it worked great for some time, my Pioneer 633 DVR-633H-S DVD recorder is now essentially useless.

I guess it works ok as a DVD player, but that's about it.

The problems all stem from the onscreen TV Guide programming (not a new topic, as I see glancing through posts here and elsewhere online).

A few months back, I wasn't getting TV Guide listing updates at all. After several weeks of calls back and forth with both Pioneer and TV Guide, it was determined that my local cable operator wasn't carrying the TV Guide codes and, therefore, my machine wasn't picking them up.

Finally, the listings returned. I guess the TV Guide folks prodded the cable provider to get them online again.

But then the graphics for the onscreen TV Guide went kablooey. Instead of a graphic of a program grid, I just got a big black box and messed up electronic gibberish.

I called up Pioneer who suggested a restart, which didn't help. They then decided that the graphic interface on my machine was corrupted and told me to send it in for repairs (at my cost, since the machine is out of warranty).

The Pioneer repair folks then called back saying the hard drive had been corrupted. I needed to either replace it with a new one ($253) or a refurbished drive ($135).

I asked to speak to a tech to find out why the drive was corrupted. He said likely bad code from TV Guide was the cause. He added that this wasn't an isolated case of this happening, and that it had happened in other parts of the US.

The tech also said that there was no guarantee, if I replaced the drive, that TV Guide data wouldn't corrupt it again.

I told him it was frustrating that I'd have to pay to resolve a problem Pioneer/TV Guide should take responsibility for: They'd sold me a product that doesn't operate the way it's supposed to. Without the TV Guide interface working, I couldn't even manually set the machine to do timer recordings. The tech told me he agreed and suggested I could call Pioneer's complaint department.

I registered a complaint with Pioneer asking that they at least cover the cost of the drive repair or, better yet, give me enough money to buy a replacement machine.

The woman I spoke with kept mentioned there was little Pioneer could do as the machine was out of warranty and, also, because TV Guide apparently was responsible for the problem.

I've decided I'm better off chalking the whole thing off as a loss. I'll go buy a different machine.

Looking around I see that most manufacturers don't even make DVD recorders with hard drives anymore. And nobody seems to use TV Guide for anything (hmmm... I wonder why).

So I'm writing this post to:

A. Vent.

B. Gladly accept any suggestions for a good replacement machine. I want a hard drive and DVD recorder. I like to time shift stuff and want the ability to archive stuff to DVDs.

C. Hear from other people who have had TV Guide-related problems with their recorders--Pioneer or otherwise. It seems we were sold a bill of goods with these machines. The feature seems fraught with problems and, at least in my case, can actually ruin your recorder. It's the type of thing class action lawsuits are made of. Not that I want to expend a lot of time and energy on something like that. I just want a DVD recorder with hard drive that works.

Thanks!

The Philips DVDR3575 might work for you... no TVG however? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657)

Circuit City online has them for $289.99 w/free shipping. (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Philips-Hard-Disk-DVD-Recorder-DVDR3575H/sem/rpsm/oid/186585/catOid/-12876/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) Some local Wal-Marts might also have some left.

At this point I wouldn't touch TV Guide with a 10-foot pole. Thanks. It's sounding like the Philips is the best way to go.

It is ALWAYS the device's fault if it corrupts itself. There is no excuse. TV Guide data maybe wrong. It may be corrupted. It may be out of spec. But it is ALWAYS the fault of the software for not checking the data before using it.

Having said that. There is a little brother of the Philips DVR from Magnavox that is available in Walmart.com for $100 less.

There is a little brother of the Philips DVR from Magnavox that is available in Walmart.com for $100 less.If he wants the better unit, I'd probably stick with the Philips. Too many problems are starting to be reported in the Maggie, now that it's been out awhile (like losing programming from it's memory), so I'd still recommend the Philips over it. I know in the short time I had the Maggie (probably less than a week), it lost it's clock setting once, failed to record something once, and wouldn't pick up ANY of the HD channels from the local cable. Also, it would occassionally "drop" channels (blue screen) with cable. And I can't say enough bad things about that remote. It's easily the worst remote I've ever personally used.

Twice the hard drive space with the Philips, anyway.

If he wants the better unit, I'd probably stick with the Philips. Too many problems are starting to be reported in the Maggie, now that it's been out awhile (like losing programming from it's memory), so I'd still recommend the Philips over it. I know in the short time I had the Maggie (probably less than a week), it lost it's clock setting once, failed to record something once, and wouldn't pick up ANY of the HD channels from the local cable. Also, it would occassionally "drop" channels (blue screen) with cable. And I can't say enough bad things about that remote. It's easily the worst remote I've ever personally used.

Twice the hard drive space with the Philips, anyway.

Reading the DVDR3575 thread, I thought the Philips also loses programming and have problem with QAM? Not trying to debate which one is better. Just want to set the record straight.

Yeah, it apparently does have some quirks, too - it just doesn't sound "as bad". ;)

I have the Philips, also, and it does seem a bit better - at least so far.

Personally, if I was used to the Pioneer's quality and wanted something similar, I'd just go with an international Pioneer model. Only has an NTSC tuner though, if that matters to him (wouldn't matter to me, though.) :cool:

My Pioneer 633H also died - repeatedly reboots itself when powered on. Pioneer says the hard drive died. They want $70 to look at it, who knows how much to repair it.

Does anyone know if the operating system is on the hard drive? Since my machine is out of warranty, I wondered if I could replace the hard drive myself and get it working again, or if the hard drive needs to have software installed on it...

Thanks.

Gary

Found this thread ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=798577&highlight=pioneer+633h ... that says I can't replace the hard drive. :-(

Does anyone know if the operating system is on the hard drive? Since my machine is out of warranty, I wondered if I could replace the hard drive myself and get it working again, or if the hard drive needs to have software installed on it...It is possible to replace the hard drive, but you need a special remote (or a remote that you can download codes to from the Internet) and a firmware disk. There's information on how to do it at the Pioneer FAQ web site (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/), but it's not for the faint of heart.

I had the hard drive in one of my Pioneer recorders fail on me (repeatedly looped at powerup showing "Loading" and the time) but was able to have it repaired during my credit card's extended warranty period. Since my wife and I have several of these machines (two 640s, a 633 and a 533) I invested in the necessary remote and got copies of the firmware discs from the FAQ web site, but so far I haven't had to use them.

I agree that Pioneer's implementation of the TVGOS software is the Achille's heel in these otherwise fine machines.

Does anyone know if the operating system is on the hard drive? Since my machine is out of warranty, I wondered if I could replace the hard drive myself and get it working again, or if the hard drive needs to have software installed on it...
Gary

TiVo uses Linux. These DVRs probably use a version of Linux (it's free).
I was wondering, "What if you GHOST your drive before it goes bad and put in a larger one?"

Sean, thanks for the pointer. I've read through the information at the Pioneer FAQ website, and think I'm going to tackle the drive replacement task. The information notes that I need to know the firmware version of my unit to determine which file to load - since my 633 is dead, any idea how to find out the firmware version?

since my 633 is dead, any idea how to find out the firmware version?

It does not harm the 633 recorder if you put the wrong firmware on the new hard drive- it simply won't install correctly and the unit will flash "HDD ERROR" on the front panel. So feel free to experiment until you get it right. In my experience, most 633 units need the newest of the firmware revisions, so try version 1.30 first and cross your fingers... if it doesn't work, erase the drive and start over with the remaining TVGOS firmware versions until you hit the right one.

And for the record, aside from the horrendously bad TVGOS system, the Pioneer 531-533-633 recorder series is really quite good and worth repairing if you can manage it yourself at reasonable cost. (This model series is particularly good at making DVD transfers of old VHS and Beta tapes: the line inputs have stabilizer circuits that smooth a lot of common tape distortions that cause problems with some other DVD recorders.) Replace the drive and then deactivate the TVGOS altogether: connect the unit's line inputs to a cable or satellite box, tell the TVGOS that you are not connected to any over-the-air signals it can download, and just use the manual timer settings in the TVGOS window. No more all-night noise, no more endless updating of the EPG files, no more premature wear on the drive. Just pull the plug on the damned TVGOS and enjoy the recorder without it.

Sean, thanks for the pointer. ... any idea how to find out the firmware version?I agree with CitiBear's advice. Good luck!

[QUOTE=Sean Nelson;12590328]It is possible to replace the hard drive, but you need a special remote (or a remote that you can download codes to from the Internet) and a firmware disk. There's information on how to do it at the Pioneer FAQ web site (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/), but it's not for the faint of heart.

Sean, I followed the link you provided but the info does not appear to be there. Can you point me to where that info is? In advance, thanks!

George

Sean, I followed the link you provided but the info does not appear to be there. Can you point me to where that info is? In advance, thanks!

George

I know the site can be a bit difficult to navigate for the uniformed. Here (http://www.pioneerfaq.info/english/dvr630.php?player=DVR-630H&question=replace_hdd) is the link to the 633/640 page. There are links from this page to the PDF files that contain the instructions.

FYI, I ordered the GGF1381 service from my local Pioneer service centre, the remote they actually supplied me with is a GGF1595. It looks like this is a replacement for the older remote. It works as expected with my 533, 633 and 640 machines.

Sean,

Great stuff, thanks. I do not have to replace these drives yet, but if I ever do, this will be most valuable. This brings up another question. I noticed that the instructions show a different hard drive replacing the OEM one. Is that possible? If so, can a larger drive be placed in the machine, and will it use the extra space? I'm afraid it may not because the formware may be set for a specific size.

George

Sean,

Great stuff, thanks. I do not have to replace these drives yet, but if I ever do, this will be most valuable. This brings up another question. I noticed that the instructions show a different hard drive replacing the OEM one. Is that possible? If so, can a larger drive be placed in the machine, and will it use the extra space? I'm afraid it may not because the formware may be set for a specific size.

George

If so, can a larger drive be placed in the machine, and will it use the extra space?I believe it is. I seem to recall reading about somone putting a 250GB drive in his machine to get extra recording time.

You can put larger drives in Pioneer recorders, and they will use all the space, but do note you will hit a wall at some point: the Pioneer file system tops out at something like 99 titles and 900 edit points or chapter marks. Also, the navigation system becomes unwieldy beyond 30 or 40 titles on the HDD. Personally I stick to 320GB and below when I repair these units, preferably 250GB max. People have successfully installed 500GB in every Pio model but that really is useless overkill, plus you risk losing that much more data if the drive crashes.

Thanks. I really love these Pioneer units (I have the 633 and the 640). I will try to make them last for a long time.

A related question: I found some 650's for sale. What is the difference between the 650 H-S and the 650 H-K? As always, many thanks for all your expertise! Invaluable!

I have a 533 with a bad hard drive, went to the website above but had a lot of problems downloading the necessary firmware, perhaps because I have a Mac. All in all is it worth the effort to try and do through the hassle of doing this or is it better to just bite the bullet and by a new recorder?

Thanks. I really love these Pioneer units (I have the 633 and the 640). I will try to make them last for a long time.

A related question: I found some 650's for sale. What is the difference between the 650 H-S and the 650 H-K? As always, many thanks for all your expertise! Invaluable!


The 650H-K is the Canadian model (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10088440&catid=24856&atab=3&logon=&langid=EN) and the 650H-S is the multisystem model (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/504232-REG/Pioneer_DVR_650HS_DVR_650HS_Multi_System_250GB_DVD_Recorder. html). Also, the former is black and the latter is silver.

I have a 533 with a bad hard drive, went to the website above but had a lot of problems downloading the necessary firmware, perhaps because I have a Mac. All in all is it worth the effort to try and do through the hassle of doing this or is it better to just bite the bullet and by a new recorder?

Yes, it is worth doing: the 533 has features that can't be easily replaced in the USA market with a newer recorder, and after three years of using it you may find the operation of other brands seems "kludgy", especially the editing which is always smooth as silk on a Pioneer. If you really don't want to be bothered with the repair, you could pick up a replacement Pioneer 450-550-650 recorder thru Canadian sources but that can be difficult and you won't gain any real advantage: these models are just facelifts of your 533. Depending on what parts you need to buy, replacing the HDD in your 533 could cost $100 or less. A complete new Canadian-sourced Pioneer recorder would run close to $350 minimum shipped to the USA. Your budget will pretty much make the decision for you.

There have been recent refinements to the whole Pio 533 TVGOS firmware replacement procedure which can make it simpler for some people, I understand your difficulties as a Mac user and can give you some additional ideas on workarounds if you PM me. Note you would likely still need to borrow the use of a Windows PC to properly download the Pioneer service remote codes to a compatible Harmony or Phillips programmable remote or a Palm Pilot, such downloads are sometimes difficult or impossible using a Mac. (I use both platforms for various tasks.) You might also need to contact Pioneerfaq for help in obtaining a service disc.

The title says it all. It turns out that Pioneer puts the TVGuide software, not firmware, on the HDD. Using Home Menu, Disc Menu, Optimize is the only way to correct the HDD ERR. If done frequently, you'll never have another HDD problem. Anyway. TVGuide software is in a hidden.JAR file on the HDD. This gets erased when you do a post-HDD ERR optimize, which is the only way to get rid of the HDD ERR, because Pioneer sends a hard error message to the Seagate HDD with every error, hard or otherwise (buffer overflow, etc.) The Seagate drive will only accept 255 hard errors and it (rightfully) presumes you've kludged something.

Bottom line: Pioneer should be shot at dawn. I just got the 160G Philips HDD. And this was my last Pioneer product. That says something, because the sponsored my race car decades ago.

Same deal here. I bought this thing in December 2005. Using my AMEX card added a year to the warranty, so naturally it waited until that was over before dying. There were a lot of problems with the TVGOS at first, several complete resets required, but eventually it settled down and had been stable for about a year. Then while using it about 2 weeks ago it locked up and shut itself off. After powering on again the TVGOS screens showed the current channel at top left and the two logos, but the right of the screen was just a distorted (mostly black) mess. (It had done that a few times back in the first few weeks I had it). From knowing what buttons to pres I could step through some of the screens and sometimes you could faintly see the letters from the menus.

SO - a complete (hold the Stop and press Standy/On) reset. The first time it got the image for the TVGOS menu restored, and I went through the setup procedure again. When changing channel assignments the next day it locked up again and powered off. After powering on again the TVGOS screen was black on the right side again, and this time 5 complete resets would not resuscitate it (even a complete reet after a HDD reorg). Now all it's good for is playing DVD's and manually recording. My previous DVR-520 was demoted to recording only satellite/cable box broadcasts from line in after the audio through the tuner started distorting after being on for several minutes (most noticeable with the sibilance). So stuff Pioneer, that's the last time I'll buy anything from them, especially as they're a bunch of quitters and ditched the TVGOS system instead of fixing it like Panasonic & others did (and they had the lousiest implementation - storing everything on the hard drive and pounding the life out of it instead of using flash memory for the listings like Panasonic & others did).

I just bought a Panasonic DMR-EH55 (on clearance - new models out soon) for a good price because I wanted the TVGOS system (it's great when it works - the user interface & search features are way ahead of the crappy system Roger's Cable uses on it's set top boxes). I used DVD-RW's to copy over the programs from the HDD on the Pioneer (high speed copies to the Panasonic - unfortunately it didn't preserve the titles so had to manually enter 120 of them - the stored phrase feature in titling on the Panasonic was helpful for that).

On the DMR-EH55 the TVGOS setup worked a treat first time. It downloads silently to flash memory (this unit could actually go in the bedroom - the Pioneer had to be kept at least 50 feet away to avoid hearing the HDD committing suicide downloading the TVGOS listings).

A few things I don't like so far on the Panasonic are I can't make DVD-RW recordings in VR mode (so I can't high speed copy them back to the two Pioneer units I now have in different locations). I could do this on DVD-RAM but of course until their 550/650 models Pioneer's couldn't read DVD-RAM.
I can't get the DMR-EH55 to stop at channels (using the remote's up/down buttons) that don't appear in the TVGOS list (and there are a few that listings don't appear in the TVGOS listings - you can manually enter the channel number on the remote to tune to them, but I guess you can't record them as you can;t set them in the TVG/record timer). Also I preferred the editing screens/user interface on the Pioneer (especially the way when Frame Accurate mode wasn't on it would automatically sync the edit at the half second point), the ability to set 32 manual recording bit rate levels, and the disk copy function.

I like the fact the Panasonic remote has a "Create Chapter" button. My Pioneer 520 had that, and a button to set the thumbnail, but they dropped those from the 533/633 remotes - and the remotes on the 550/650's are truly cheap and appalling, you can't even change channels or volume on the TV with them anymore). I don't like the fact that Panasonic's remote places the Disk Navigator, TV Guide & Functions buttons so close to the navigator "ring" that you often hit them by mistake - especially when entering titles.

A few things I don't like so far on the Panasonic are I can't make DVD-RW recordings in VR mode (so I can't high speed copy them back to the two Pioneer units I now have in different locations). I could do this on DVD-RAM but of course until their 550/650 models Pioneer's couldn't read DVD-RAM.


The Pioneer 640 also reads and writes to DVD-RAM. I use it to transfer programs back and forth between my 640 and my Panasonic DVDRs.