Thursday Night Football on NFL Network HD
Green Bay Packers at Dallas Cowboys
Live from Texas Stadium, 8:15pm ET
1080i

Bryant Gumbel (Play-by-Play), Cris Collinsworth (Analyst)

NFL Network HD is available on DirecTv, Dish Network, and select cable systems.

Please include your source in your posts (Cable, Sat, OTA simulcast in home markets) and your location.

Local Channels for OTA simulcast:
Green Bay: (CBS Ch. 5; WFRV-TV)
Milwaukee: (ABC Ch. 12; WISN-TV)
Dallas: (MyNetwork Ch. 27, KDFI-TV)

At stake tonight, either team can clinch a playoof spot with a win. A win and some help on Sunday will allow the winning team to capture their divisonal race.

DALLAS COWBOYS
Dallas clinches NFC East Division title:
1) DAL win + NYG loss

Dallas clinches playoff berth:
1) DAL win or tie OR
2) NO loss or tie + ARI loss or tie

GREEN BAY PACKERS
Green Bay clinches NFC North Division title:
1) GB win + DET loss or tie OR
2) GB tie + DET loss

Green Bay clinches playoff berth:
1) GB win or tie OR
2) NO loss or tie + ARI loss or tie + CHI loss or tie

Is the game available on DirecTV if you still have the old mpeg 2 system?
If so, what channel is HD being shown on?

Video/audio out of sync on Dish. Seems to be okay on DirecTV, not perfect, but closer than Dish.

Is the game available on DirecTV if you still have the old mpeg 2 system?
If so, what channel is HD being shown on?

You might try one of the special event channels, the ones in the 90's, otherwise it's ch 212 and you'll need an MPEG4 STB to view it.

Is the game available on DirecTV if you still have the old mpeg 2 system?
If so, what channel is HD being shown on?

Yes, according to the NFL the game will be on channel 95.

pregame looks pretty good here... small bout of macroblocking for awhile, but that seems to have cleared up... cheerleaders look good... :)

we getting stereo again tonight homcom?

comcast south jersey.

Yes, according to the NFL the game will be on channel 95.

I thought it might be as that's where it was in the past and sure enough it is, at least the pre-game show is.

So far for ch-95, the A/V is dead-on too, better than my other two sources.

That's strange I don't even have 95 showing up on my program guide now.
I got last weeks NFLHD game on it.
Anyone else with the old Directv mpeg 2 system getting the game on channel 95?

PQ on channel#21 on D* is great but the new channel#95 has some issues?
Also sound is much louder on 212 than 95 ??

That's strange I don't even have 95 showing up on my program guide now.
I got last weeks NFLHD game on it.
Anyone else with the old Directv mpeg 2 system getting the game on channel 95?

It gets dropped off the guide, try entering "95" and see if it tunes to that channel.

Just did a reset on the receiver. Got it now.

D* mpeg4 looks great on my DLP

now that game as started...

nice pq... good turf... tiniest bit of pixelation on up close motion shots, but otherwise nice and sharp... good color... overall picture a bit soft, but that could be the stadium lighting, it seems like a lot of games from that stadium seem a bit soft...

unfortunately, stereo... too bad we aren't getting "wendel sound", the crowd sounds fired up (a lot of packer fans managed to lay their hands on tickets from the sound of things)...

comment... is it just me, or has bryant gumbel stepped up his game this year? maybe it took him last year to knock the rust off, but i'm really enjoying the way he calls the game this year.

hd via comcast south jersey.

<edit>
getting pixelation on the graphics coming in and out. and that was a bad call there.
</edit.

That replay of the "catch" looks like crud...via DirecTV

watching ota on local 27.1 picture looks fine (other than a line at the top) but the audio keeps cutting in and out

Homer call #1. How is that reviewed and not a turnover? They need a better HD monitor.

Homer call #1. How is that reviewed and not a turnover? They need a better HD monitor.

Couldn't review for the turnover, the challenge was complete or incomplete

D* mpeg4 looks great on my DLP


I own a DLP as well.

So what would cause the PQ to be noticeably worse on 95 than 212? Also why such a big difference.




jefbal99...thanks, had the volume down for a couple minutes and couldn't understand what happened but see they blew it dead. So still a bad call, just not a homer call.

Homer call #1. How is that reviewed and not a turnover? They need a better HD monitor.

they pulled the old jerry markbreit "the whistle blew the play dead" routine on that one...

I own a DLP as well.

So what would cause the PQ to be noticeably worse on 95 than 212? Also why such a big difference.

95 is a bit-starved/lower rez MPEG2 signal and 212 is a(presumably) sufficiently provisioned MPEG4 signal.

now that game as started...

nice pq... good turf... tiniest bit of pixelation on up close motion shots, but otherwise nice and sharp... good color... overall picture a bit soft, but that could be the stadium lighting, it seems like a lot of games from that stadium seem a bit soft...

unfortunately, stereo... too bad we aren't getting "wendel sound", the crowd sounds fired up (a lot of packer fans managed to lay their hands on tickets from the sound of things)...

comment... is it just me, or has bryant gumbel stepped up his game this year? maybe it took him last year to knock the rust off, but i'm really enjoying the way he calls the game this year.

hd via comcast south jersey.

<edit>
getting pixelation on the graphics coming in and out. and that was a bad call there.
</edit.

It's you. He's still one of the worst commentators. He said the "Packers will go for the tie" when the Cowboys were the ones kicking.

comment... is it just me, or has bryant gumbel stepped up his game this year? maybe it took him last year to knock the rust off, but i'm really enjoying the way he calls the game this year.

Yeah, Gumbel isn't as bad as last season, OTH Collinsworth is insufferable, the Tim McCarver of NFL.

As for the production values, I'll still take CBS anyday of the week with Wedel as guest "Pro-from-Dover" running the mixing board

It's you. He's still one of the worst commentators. He said the "Packers will go for the tie" when the Cowboys were the ones kicking.

well... that's true.... :) i guess it's more the "style" of the way he's calling it... he still is a bit prone to mixing things up a bit, but that seems to be be true of most play by play guys now... i like him better than joe buck, that's for sure...

cool graphic of the scoring drive...

It's you. He's still one of the worst commentators. He said the "Packers will go for the tie" when the Cowboys were the ones kicking.

Yeah, he is bad, better he's on this network though instead of polluting up CBS, NBC, FOX and ESPN. Eight games a year I can stand him, but weekly all season long...:rolleyes:

Watching it in "HD" here in Michigan on Comcast. But it is not in HD, but it says it is. Crappy signal all around. Glad I got a "deal" on the Sports Tier.

Gumbel is the worst play-by-play guy in Football. I want to turn him off after 5 seconds. Sounds like Kermit the Frog. And I hate Chris Collinsworth. And I swear I am not a very negative guy. Thank goodness there is hockey on tonight. I just hope these two teams beat the cr*p out of each other tonight (Giants fan).

Good HD PQ on Buckeyecable. 1950's style stereo sound sucks :(

watching ota on local 27.1 picture looks fine (other than a line at the top) but the audio keeps cutting in and out

NFL network HD on D* MPEG4 ch 212 is FAR superior to the local Dallas OTA HD broadcast on my Sony direct view HDTV. Dallas OTA is like watching SNF on NBC

NFL network on D* MPEG4 ch 212 is FAR superior to the local Dallas OTA HD broadcast on my Sony direct view HDTV. Dallas OTA is like watching SNF on NBC

yeah, i havent upgraded my directv to hd yet, so its either watch sd directv that looks awful, or watch ota hd

Watching it in "HD" here in Michigan on Comcast. But it is not in HD, but it says it is. Crappy signal all around. Glad I got a "deal" on the Sports Tier.

Getting it good (as mentioned above, not CBS good) here in Grand Rapids via Comcast... Which part of MI ?

Gumbel is the worst play-by-play guy in Football. I want to turn him off after 5 seconds. Sounds like Kermit the Frog.

That's one of the main reasons I don't like him, he speaks as if he has a mouthful of mashed potatoes or something, it's just not conducive to good play-by-play.

That's one of the main reasons I don't like him, he speaks as if he has a mouthful of mashed potatoes or something, it's just not conducive to good play-by-play.

Happens to everyone who spends any lenght of time with Katie Couric and Al Roker...

D* 212 looks good. 95 is awful.

:p

Getting it good (as mentioned above, not CBS good) here in Grand Rapids via Comcast... Which part of MI ?

If it's not CBS quality, it's not off by much...what i'm seeing is stunning. D* MPEG4 212

If it's not CBS quality, it's not off by much...what i'm seeing is stunning. D* MPEG4 212

Ya' know, the thing that is really hurting this broadcast is the STEREO audio, the mix sound very thin, even the annoc. mics sound like they're about two feet further back from the mics than they should be... can something be muddy and thin at the same time???

Ya' know, the thing that is really hurting this broadcast is the STEREO audio, the mix sound very thin, even the annoc. mics sound like they're about two feet further back from the mics than they should be... can something be muddy and thin at the same time???

I can't comment on the AQ, as for I don't have DD. Just the sound out of the TV.

Ya' know, the thing that is really hurting this broadcast is the STEREO audio, the mix sound very thin, even the annoc. mics sound like they're about two feet further back from the mics than they should be... can something be muddy and thin at the same time???

I agree. No 5.1? WTF! NFL couldn't afford it? Just like their lame-ass SD studio shows.

Watching on Comcast in Detroit, game looks really good PQ wise. I liked the animated drive chart using the field, Craig Janoff is directing a good looking production. Nice to see a steadicam on the sidelines, I like the new score bug over last year's version but i think it could be a slight smaller in the vertical dimension. The audio when they went down to Deion was horrible.

Ya' know, the thing that is really hurting this broadcast is the STEREO audio, the mix sound very thin, even the annoc. mics sound like they're about two feet further back from the mics than they should be... can something be muddy and thin at the same time???

That and Pompous Gumbell I never thought anyone could make Collingsworth sound good but Gumbel sure does. I feel like I am watching a broadcast that was produced by our local high school what a joke this is. I think this will be the last game until my Pats play that I will watch on this channel.

I agree. No 5.1? WTF! NFL couldn't afford it? Just like their lame-ass SD studio shows.

The NFL can't afford it :mad:

...I like the new score bug over last year's version but i think it could be a slight smaller in the vertical dimension. ...Since this is an HD broadcast, why does the score bug need to be in the center? Why not to the left or right and a little higher on the screen? They are still thinking SD display. Is anyone watching in SD? In any case, it doesn't need to have the NFL bump on the bottom.

Watching on ch 212 DirecTV. Ch 95 looks like crap in comparison.

Looks very good via Comcast Detroit.

Maybe we can get ESPN to sell the NFL their circle surround sound and then ESPN can buy a DD system.

D* 212 looks good. 95 is awful.
You weren't kidding! I just checked 95, and it's shockingly bad. 212 is great.

Unfortunately, Byrant is awful on both channels.

Unfortunately, Byrant is awful on both channels.
I blame DirecTV. :p

ok, so i stand alone on bryant... :o oh well... i think i'm the only one who likes mccarver too.... :)

i think the production of the game itself is VERY good... can't blame the producer for the inadequacy of the sound...

D* 212 looks good. 95 is awful.

ditto

i think the production of the game itself is VERY good...
It's not bad, but what makes you say it's VERY good?

Just started the recording and am thrilled with the PQ. Y'all are right. Stereo sound is a real downer for an otherwise good HD presentation.

I just turned to channel 212 on Directv and the picture is beautiful. But I had to turn it after watching for 5 mins because 1) The NFL net decides that they don't want to put the quarter number next to the score like normal nets and 2) Bryant Gumbel sounds Kermit the Frog and listening to Chris Collingsworth is like listening to finger nails scratching a chalk board.

The NFL net decides that they don't want to put the quarter number next to the score like normal nets
:confused: It's right under the clock...

..can't blame the producer for the inadequacy of the sound...Oh, no? Who can you blame, if not the producer?

I'm impressed with the picture (via Comcast), but the audio is definitely low-fidelity. Doesn't help that the commentators are two of the worst in all of sports television.

Who in the world determined way back when that Bryant Gumbel was a "sports guy?" That person should be drawn and quartered.

I just turned to channel 212 on Directv and the picture is beautiful. But I had to turn it after watching for 5 mins because 1) The NFL net decides that they don't want to put the quarter number next to the score like normal nets and 2) Bryant Gumbel sounds Kermit the Frog and listening to Chris Collingsworth is like listening to finger nails scratching a chalk board.

well, number 2 is reasonable, i suppose, but not watching because the quarter number isn't displayed seems slightly over the top... ;)

:confused: It's right under the clock...

I must have missed it b/c I could see the clock but there was no time there. Maybe the time slides up and down and they show it when they feel like it.

I must have missed it b/c I could see the clock but there was no time there. Maybe the time slides up and down and they show it when they feel like it.

notice those 4 little dashes underneath the time? :)

One thing I don't like is the on field virtual graphics that NFL Network is using. CBS and ESPN use a blue line for the virtual Line of Scrimmage, the red line that NFL Network is using is very distracting. Also the down and distance graphic is huge, they need to make it smaller and tone it down some, make it blend into the field more.

Oh, no? Who can you blame, if not the producer?


well, i don't believe the producer is responsible for purchasing the sound equipment... :rolleyes:

Since this is an HD broadcast, why does the score bug need to be in the center? Why not to the left or right and a little higher on the screen? They are still thinking SD display. Is anyone watching in SD? In any case, it doesn't need to have the NFL bump on the bottom.
Most people watching this game are watching it in SD. Not those on this forum perhaps, but the general public, yes.

Watching the game on Verizon Fios. Picture quality is pretty good, not the best I've seen. They appear to lack the graphics and fancier production features you see on the networks; no biggie. But the sound is downright lousy, even for stereo 2.0, with changing volume levels even for the announcers. The sound is 3rd rate compared to the major networks. I guess no 5.1 sound for the NFL network HD games this season.

notice those 4 little dashes underneath the time? :)

It is kinda like the idea FOX used two years ago in the preseason using lit dots to show what quarter it was. That lasted all of one or two preseason games.

well, i don't believe the producer is responsible for purchasing the sound equipment... :rolleyes:Hmmm...
What is it that you think the producer is responsible for? :confused:

Right before the 2 minute warning they took a shot of the ref making a penalty announcement with the wires from the Cable Cam in the frame, it looked horrible, really need to move the Cable Cam out of those shots.

They have a POV lock off camera at the 50 yard that they are using for background video when doing promos and full screen graphics. I am not a huge fan of this view much prefer the traditional 3/4 lock off for these shots, which they have also used tonight. The midfield lockoff is also panned slightly to the right showing more the field that way then to the left.

It is kinda like the idea FOX used two years ago in the preseason using lit dots to show what quarter it was. That lasted all of one or two preseason games.

yea... i guess it's not intuitively obvious...

Video/audio out of sync on Dish.
Noticing it on E* during halftime. I've been experiencing it on ESPN2 lately as well.

Hmmm...
What is it that you think the producer is responsible for? :confused:

Not purchasing sound equipment. The ability to pass 5.1 sound would be a decision made at a higher level then the game producer. BTW, the producer is Mark Loomis, who used to work for ABC Sports.

Is anyone watching in SD?

A whole lot more then that are watching in HD.

Homer call #1. How is that reviewed and not a turnover? They need a better HD monitor.

The Cowboys, Colts, Jets and Giants do not have HD Instant Replay for their home games. The NFL was too cheap to spend the money to wire the stadiums that are being replaced in the next 3 years.

Right before the 2 minute warning they took a shot of the ref making a penalty announcement with the wires from the Cable Cam in the frame, it looked horrible, really need to move the Cable Cam out of those shots.

After nearly dropping the camera on Matt Hasslebeck, they've probably been ordered to park it in a more conservative position during timeouts.

Like over the officials, for example.

After nearly dropping the camera on Matt Hasslebeck, they've probably been ordered to park it in a more conservative position during timeouts.

Like over the officials, for example.

It was not during a timeout, it was in a certain position because that was the next shot they were going to.

Not purchasing sound equipment. The ability to pass 5.1 sound would be a decision made at a higher level then the game producer. BTW, the producer is Mark Loomis, who used to work for ABC Sports.The producer IS responsible for the quality of the sound mix, though, and I bet he has some say about which equipment they RENT. The lack of 5.1 is only one of many things wrong with this sound presentation, IMO. As someone already mentioned, it's noticeably tinny, and muffled at the same time. I've heard plenty of live sports events in stereo (even mono) - on ABC and elsewhere - that sound better than this garbage.

Deon Sanders almost blew my eardrums out in his sideline commentary at the beginning of the second quarter. That was crap sound mix coupled with his distorted mic. Wow that was nasty.

He's a little more in check now but wow can someone check that before lighting it up like that ?!?!?!? :eek:

I hate Time Warner for not carrying the NFL Network and I hate the NFL for being greedy and making this great game only available on the same stinkin' NFL Network!!! ARRRRRRRRRR!!! Jealous of all who get to watch this game!!!

Poor Favre is getting pounded into oblivion. It's a shame the O-line not make the trip to Dallas for the Packers.

Don't worry, you'll probably see this game again in the NFC Championship.

Poor Favre is getting pounded into oblivion. It's a shame the O-line not make the trip to Dallas for the Packers.

Lemme guess - watching on DVR?

Wow, when did NBC get on channel 95?

Lemme guess - watching on DVR?

Yup. Just got to the backup coming in now.

The midfield lockoff is also panned slightly to the right showing more the field that way then to the left.
IIRC they did the same thing on Thanksgiving too. It's incredibly distracting. They shouldn't even use that shot, it's not good at all.

Watching from 212 D*, but I'm not entirely impressed by the PQ. 42" RPTV (and no, nothing wrong with my TV and it doesn't need to be calibrated) at 15 ft I see a little motion blocking. At 12 ft I see a lot of motion blocking around the action and around all the flying logos.

It looks a tad better than our local CBS that sends NFL and SEC at ~15 mbps video.

NFL got like 60 billion from D* for ST and they still can't broadcast games in 5.1? How cheap.

The producer IS responsible for the quality of the sound mix, though, and I bet he has some say about which equipment they RENT. The lack of 5.1 is only one of many things wrong with this sound presentation, IMO. As someone already mentioned, it's noticeably tinny, and muffled at the same time. I've heard plenty of live sports events in stereo (even mono) - on ABC and elsewhere - that sound better than this garbage.
Listening in the truck with so many other things going on, I doubt that the producer noticed any major problem with the audio. While the producer is ultimately responsible it is really up to the A1. It may be something in transmission or just one of those nights when things do not come together that great.

The on field graphic showing down and distance just had the drive summary with a clock showing how long the drive was taking. Way too much information in the virtual graphic, they need to make it simpler.

Game looks pretty good on D* :)

The midfield lockoff is also panned slightly to the right showing more the field that way then to the left.

Thanks. I noticed it after reading this thread, and now it irritates me every time I see it. Straighten the damn camera.

;)

Why oh why are the cowboys playing this 'slack' defense against Rodgers...take it too him...sheesh...

Possibly because he can run.

Decent game, spotty PQ via Comcast, poor audio. I am relieved the Cowboys won, in spite of their baffling lapses. The first 20 minutes of game time, they looked superb, but then they took a vaction for awhile. They did enough to secure the win in the 4th.

I am disappointed that Favre was injured. For one thing, this "best of the NFC" matchup needed him. For another, Favre is simply one of the ultimate competitors in NFL history, and this Cowboys fan considers him a living legend. His backup played well, like AJ Feeley did Sunday night.

Is Bryant Gumbel the worst announcer ever? Or should Musberger retain that crown? And Collinsworth seemed pained by Dallas' retention of the lead throughout the game. He did finally say some very nice things about them, but he seemed to be disappointed that Green Bay was not pulling ahead.

Is Bryant Gumbel the worst announcer ever? Or should Musberger retain that crown? And Collinsworth seemed pained by Dallas' retention of the lead throughout the game. He did finally say some very nice things about them, but he seemed to be disappointed that Green Bay was not pulling ahead.

It cracked me up when Collinsworth said that Wade Phillips would not throw the challenge flag, about 2 seconds before he threw the flag.

There are a lot worse announcers than Bryant Gumbel. The ones that do the Seattle Seahawks games on Fox, for example.

But, do the Seahawks announcers mess up as much as Gumbel or give vague references to the field at play like "TO is lined up on this side" Ummm...thanks Bryant...now, what side is that?

My favorite Gumbel mess up of the night was when one of the Cowboys got hurt and Gumbel said three names before naming the correct player.

I thought the directing of the telecast was well done but it seemed that there were quite a few shots that made no sense. I don't know if it was a mis call by the director or a mis punch by the TD, but there was definitely some mis cues.

I thought the broadcast looked great, some of the most 3D sports I've seen. There was still a decent amount of breakup in the fast moving replay segments, but the vast majority looked great.

I'm glad I ordered NFL network from Comcast here in Houston as opposed to going to a sports bar to watch the game. I wouldn't have spent a lot more than $8 at a bar no doubt. Still annoyed that Comcast now charges you $2 each time to make a change in your service though. :rolleyes:

Still annoyed that Comcast now charges you $2 each time to make a change in your service though.
Are you serious?

Are you serious?

They told me when I called to sign up for NFL network that they started doing it the 1st of Oct. So pretty much this game cost me $12 instead of $8, since I'll be canceling NFL Network after I get my $8 worth. It's comcastic! -_-

Compared channel 95 to 212 and channel 212 was much better. Pixalation in closeups on 95 not there on 212. Why?

Compared channel 95 to 212 and channel 212 was much better. Pixalation in closeups on 95 not there on 212. Why?

MPEG2 on 95 vs MPEG4 on 212

Watched on channel 212 via D*. Game looked very good, even better than what I see on my HD LIL CBS affiliate. My biggest gripe was that the audio on the commercials was roughly twice as loud as the audio of the game itself. Did anyone else have this problem?

MPEG2 on 95 vs MPEG4 on 212

The more relevant difference:

95 = Bandwidth starved signal.
212 = More bandwidth allocated.

(Both relative to the amount required for optimum PQ for their respective compression format)

The PQ is a result of the bandwidth allocated by D* - not the compression format - D* just happens to be allocating bandwidth differently based on the compression format. (due to available space)

There was a NFL football game last night? I surfed all the channels and didn't see one except for a college game on ESPN. OH well I guess I missed it, it could not have been an important game or it would have been on National TV. :D

It was on National TV. Is MA still part of the US? ;)

I thought the PQ was excellent via E*. I also like the overall presentation of the game, not a circus like Fox, more focus on the actual game which is nice.

Kermit the Gumbel is horrific. Does anyone at NFLN know how much everyone despises him? I think I would rather listen to Gilbert Gottfried commentate the game.

There was a NFL football game last night? I surfed all the channels and didn't see one except for a college game on ESPN. OH well I guess I missed it, it could not have been an important game or it would have been on National TV. :D


Funny, but there is no reason for the majority of homes not to have it "IF" they want it and, or are big football fans.

And I think Collinsworth is a very good anouncer.

One problem I noticed during the telecast was the billboards. A few of them had black text under the logo which had the companies web address. The billboards were mostly played over dark night time shots of the Dallas area, making the black text unreadable.

I thought the PQ was excellent via E*. I also like the overall presentation of the game, not a circus like Fox, more focus on the actual game which is nice.

The telecast just did not have that big event feel that Sunday night or Monday Night games have. They had many of the same resources as one of those games, (number of cameras, Cable Cam, SteadiCam, Blimp) but the telecast felt more like that of a CBS A or B game. I thought overall the telecast was solid, but it did feel like it was missing something.

Picture looked fantastic on D* 212. I think the blimp pic was 480 though.

We had a little A/B comparison at the beginning of the game between E* and the local OTA "Channel 27" (VMC on an HTPC). To my surprise, my friends voted to stick with E*. There was some stuttering and dropouts on the OTA. I noticed a little lack of sharpness (bandwidth limitations?), but overall the picture on E* won out.

Listening in the truck with so many other things going on, I doubt that the producer noticed any major problem with the audio. While the producer is ultimately responsible it is really up to the A1. It may be something in transmission or just one of those nights when things do not come together that great.


Who is ultimately responsible for the telecast? I don't think inferior audio is a minor issue any more than a poor video signal is not a minor issue. I know I'm oversimplifying it but c'mon, there are only two things to get right in a telecast, the audio and the video. The producer certainly 'should' be paying attention to the quality of the audio and video if he's responsible for both during the telecast.

I agree. No 5.1? WTF! NFL couldn't afford it? Just like their lame-ass SD studio shows.

The lack of 5.1 audio was caused by the Cowboys refusing to put any money into their old stadium which will be torn down.

It is in the process of being replaced ...the most expensive stadium in the NFL ...more than $1 billion. I drive past it twice a day ...about 2 minutes from my home here in Arlington. The new Cowboys Stadium will have every high tech feature available ...including a screen above the field that reaches almost from goal line to goal line.. It is more than 50 percent finished. See:

http://stadium.dallascowboys.com/

Pretty sweet looking except for the roof.

Yeah, Gumbel isn't as bad as last season, OTH Collinsworth is insufferable, the Tim McCarver of NFL.

As for the production values, I'll still take CBS anyday of the week with Wedel as guest "Pro-from-Dover" running the mixing board

I don't normally judge play-by-play announcers that harshly. But Gumbel is absolutely terrible. Countless examples... like the Dallas runner gets 22 ards on first and 10 and Gumbel says "should be enough for the first down..."

Who is ultimately responsible for the telecast? I don't think inferior audio is a minor issue any more than a poor video signal is not a minor issue. I know I'm oversimplifying it but c'mon, there are only two things to get right in a telecast, the audio and the video. The producer certainly 'should' be paying attention to the quality of the audio and video if he's responsible for both during the telecast.

The executive producer would ultimately be responsible. The game producer is quite busy during a telecast, and trying to fix an audio problem that may not even be apparent in the truck would not be high on his to do list.

It is in the process of being replaced ...the most expensive stadium in the NFL ...more than $1 billion. I drive past it twice a day ...about 2 minutes from my home here in Arlington. The new Cowboys Stadium will have every high tech feature available ...including a screen above the field that reaches almost from goal line to goal line.. It is more than 50 percent finished. See:

http://stadium.dallascowboys.com/

Fantastic stadium - but keeping the traditional hole in the roof because it is "known around the world" is ridiculous. It is known for being asinine. A dome with a hole.

Hopefully it'll rain a lot on Sundays and they'll decide to close it. Last thing we need is decades' more games with annoying man-made shadows cast all over the playing surface.

> Wonder if they'll maintain OAR or stretch the feed to fill that wide aspect ratio mega-screen above the field. ;)

The lack of 5.1 audio was caused by the Cowboys refusing to put any money into their old stadium which will be torn down.


Not at all the case. The NFL did not install HD replay equipment into the stadiums that are being replaced. That has nothing to do with the broadcast not being in 5.1

The lack of 5.1 is an NFL Network issue, and has nothing to do with the Texas stadium or any other stadium.

I don't normally judge play-by-play announcers that harshly. But Gumbel is absolutely terrible. Countless examples... like the Dallas runner gets 22 ards on first and 10 and Gumbel says "should be enough for the first down..."

Well to be fair 22 yards on 1st and 10 should be enough for a first down. :D

The lack of 5.1 audio was caused by the Cowboys refusing to put any money into their old stadium which will be torn down.

It is in the process of being replaced ...the most expensive stadium in the NFL ...more than $1 billion. I drive past it twice a day ...about 2 minutes from my home here in Arlington. The new Cowboys Stadium will have every high tech feature available ...including a screen above the field that reaches almost from goal line to goal line.. It is more than 50 percent finished. See:

http://stadium.dallascowboys.com/

From the website, BOLD mine...

The Cowboys are adding an innovative design element to the Stadium with a one-of-a-kind center-hung video board. It hangs 110-feet above the field from the arches, but here is what will be exciting to fans: It will stretch between the 20 yard lines, meaning the sideline boards will span 60 yards. So the fans sitting in the upper decks will have what amounts to a larger-than life game being played directly in front of them if they choose not to look down at the field, giving them an unprecedented benefit up top.

Hell yes, sign me up for one of those $$$ seats where I don't have to look at the field and can watch it on a monitor.... errrr... isn't that what I have in my basement?

The telecast just did not have that big event feel that Sunday night or Monday Night games have. They had many of the same resources as one of those games, (number of cameras, Cable Cam, SteadiCam, Blimp) but the telecast felt more like that of a CBS A or B game. I thought overall the telecast was solid, but it did feel like it was missing something.I think they are still trying to establish their identity, and are trying different things to see how they go over.

Overall, I thought they were pretty good, in particular I liked the graphics. As you noted a few of the camera shots were weird, the rear shot of Neon Deion when he was on the field blabbing away with the mic cable standing up the back of his zoot suit ……

As for the announcers, they are an individual preference. Gumbel is still getting his chops back, IMO, but he doesn't bother me at all, neither does Collingsworth for that matter. Long ago I learned how to 'dial' announcers out mentally, if I didn't like them. Occasionally I do run into someone that really grinds me and I'll pull the plug on the center channel, and just go with game sounds. Actually, I'll do that just because, on occasion.

Did anyone else notice NFLN's commercial last night for the Colts-Falcons Turkey Day game? I think it was in the third period. That's what Gumbel calls them instead of quarters.

This was the second best game of the year so far, and it was only available in about a third of the nation's households. All because the NFL has taken greed and pure chutzpa to an unimaginable new level by demanding a subscriber fee double that of any other cablenet, and doesn't want to be on a sports tier (where the people who want it can dang well pay for it) so that they can squeeze the maximum amount out of advertisers for commercial time. There's one more New England game on there, I believe, and my Panthers (kind of embarrassing to admit that this year) and the 'Boys get this wonderful Christmas gift on December 22nd. Deck the Halls!

I wish the NFL Network would go on injured reserve - permanently. :mad: Somehow, TNT and ESPN made this 8-game late season package profitable and widely available without going bust. :rolleyes:

Gumbel is still getting his chops back, IMO, but he doesn't bother me at all, neither does Collingsworth for that matter. Long ago I learned how to 'dial' announcers out mentally, if I didn't like them.

Ken,

Even if he doesn't bother you, wouldn't you rather listen to an announcer you enjoy then someone you have to, "dial out"?

All because the NFL has taken greed and pure chutzpa to an unimaginable new level by demanding a subscriber fee double that of any other cablenet,
NFL Network is asking no where close to double that of any other cable network.


I wish the NFL Network would go on injured reserve - permanently. :mad: Somehow, TNT and ESPN made this 8-game late season package profitable and widely available without going bust. :rolleyes:
Totally different packages. TNT never had any late season football. The NFL Network package is made mostly of games that used to be on FOX and CBS, only 1 or 2 came from the old ESPN Sunday Night Football package.

Gumble was horrible. I was receiving text messages from friends all across the country asking if I was watching the game and listening to Gumble's sad attempt at commentary. My buddy likened his voice to that of a child molester trying to lure kids off the monkey bars.

The game was great though! Was hoping the Pack would pull it out.

like the Dallas runner gets 22 ards on first and 10 and Gumbel says "should be enough for the first down..."
I hate that! Also "We'll call it 2nd down and 10." You'll call it? Like you're making some kind of guess on the down and distance?

I know I have mentioned the virtual down and distance graphics before, but I keep on remembering things about them that I want to comment on. At times the down and distance virtual graphic did not match what was going on in the game or what the down and distance graphic that was part of the score bug said.

This was the second best game of the year so far, and it was only available in about a third of the nation's households. All because the NFL has taken greed and pure chutzpa to an unimaginable new level by demanding a subscriber fee double that of any other cablenet, and doesn't want to be on a sports tier (where the people who want it can dang well pay for it) so that they can squeeze the maximum amount out of advertisers for commercial time. There's one more New England game on there, I believe, and my Panthers (kind of embarrassing to admit that this year) and the 'Boys get this wonderful Christmas gift on December 22nd. Deck the Halls!

I wish the NFL Network would go on injured reserve - permanently. :mad: Somehow, TNT and ESPN made this 8-game late season package profitable and widely available without going bust. :rolleyes:

Don't hate the player, hate the game. It's the game the media conglomerates created (including your beloved Time Warner). Only difference is the NFL is an independent network so carriage isn't guaranteed by the "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" carriage philosophy that exists with the major media companies.

When they split off the basic cablenets into "women", "gay", "news", etc. tiers and move the over-priced ESPN into the sports tier, then your complaint is justified - until then it's hypocritical to expect the NFL to settle for sports tier placement.

I hate that! Also "We'll call it 2nd down and 10." You'll call it? Like you're making some kind of guess on the down and distance?

What about when Dallas was lining up for their first field goal and BG says,"The Packers are going to go for the tie"

... or at the game when he said {somebody} will try to talk to "Rick Romo" for the postgame report.

NFL Network is asking no where close to double that of any other cable network.

Weren't they demanding 70 cents per subscriber or something like that? I don't believe anyone else has a subscriber fee anywhere close to that, although I admit it's been awhile since I saw the numbers.


Totally different packages. TNT never had any late season football. The NFL Network package is made mostly of games that used to be on FOX and CBS, only 1 or 2 came from the old ESPN Sunday Night Football package.

I thought all the Thursday night games came from that package, although NFL Network has cribbed some games off the broadcast nets as well. In any event, they're unnecessarily greedy, and that's why the big cable networks aren't carrying them.

Who is ultimately responsible for the telecast?The owner of the broadcast; NFL Network. The producer is an employee, although he/she may have some input into some aspects of the broadcast, it would not be the decision to go DD2.0 as opposed to DD5.1. Maybe the executive producer would have some input into the choice of audio formats, maybe not.

In all likelyhood, it was a cost based decision.

What about when Dallas was lining up for their first field goal and BG says,"The Packers are going to go for the tie"

... or at the game when he said {somebody} will try to talk to "Rick Romo" for the postgame report.
Thursday and Saturday Night Football would make an awesome drinking game. The only rule: drink whenever Gumbel says something stupid. You'll be drunk before the end of the first period.

Weren't they demanding 70 cents per subscriber or something like that? I don't believe anyone else has a subscriber fee anywhere close to that, although I admit it's been awhile since I saw the numbers.
I believe their fee is around 70 cents, but that is nowhere near double what everyone else asks for. I believe ESPN is over $1.

Weren't they demanding 70 cents per subscriber or something like that? I don't believe anyone else has a subscriber fee anywhere close to that, although I admit it's been awhile since I saw the numbers.




I thought all the Thursday night games came from that package, although NFL Network has cribbed some games off the broadcast nets as well. In any event, they're unnecessarily greedy, and that's why the big cable networks aren't carrying them.

Fred posted an article in the HOTP thread awhile back that listed the fees charged and some were as high as $2.00 per sub, ESPN is that high I believe and some of the RSNs were up there as well.

IMO, the NFL Net simply doesn't have the content yet to justify the rate they want, if they had at least a game a week throughout the season it would be a different story.

Weren't they demanding 70 cents per subscriber or something like that? I don't believe anyone else has a subscriber fee anywhere close to that, although I admit it's been awhile since I saw the numbers.

Fox News is getting $0.75 and CNN is getting about $0.45 IIRC. ESPN gets around $2.40 (and close to $4.00 if you include all channels in the ESPN suite of channels) Plus you have to factor in the cost of the many cablenets that expand their channel offering while hardly adding any significant amount of actual new programming - then charge for each channel.

Regardless, subscribers have the choice to switch to a provider that better adresses their tastes in their basic subscription package. The big cablenets tied to the major media companies (most independent cablecos carry the NFL Network) have decided that having channels subsidized should be reserved for those channels owned by the group - regardless of demand, content, or cost.

When they split off the basic cablenets into "women", "gay", "news", etc. tiers and move the over-priced ESPN into the sports tier, then your complaint is justified - until then it's hypocritical to expect the NFL to settle for sports tier placement.

At least ESPN has oodles and oodles of compelling content spanning the entire sporting world (or at least the American section of it). NFL Network has 8 games, or about 24 hours, of compelling content and 364 days of filler. That said, I concede my comments do have a ring of hypocrisy in them with regard to the Bristol behemoth, even though they do offer far more value for the money, IMO.

(And I don't really "love" TWC; I'd drop them in a NY minute if I could get FIOS with a decent DVR.)

Fox News is getting $0.75

See there? Another reason to hate them. ;)

See there? Another reason to hate them. ;)

Don't hate them for getting $0.75 - hate your cableco for making you pay it. ;)

Don't hate them for getting $0.75 - hate your cableco for making you pay it. ;)

I look at it as my little contribution to the RNC. :p

The owner of the broadcast; NFL Network. The producer is an employee, although he/she may have some input into some aspects of the broadcast, it would not be the decision to go DD2.0 as opposed to DD5.1. Maybe the executive producer would have some input into the choice of audio formats, maybe not.

In all likelyhood, it was a cost based decision.

Personally I happen to think that the audio is 1/2 the broadcast and not just the stepchild in the production. If the quality of video was at the same level in relationship to the quality of the audio the picture would be close to unwatchable. You would find out real fast whose job that was and he would be held accountable. But when it comes to audio, somehow it's given a pass. With the current potential technical capablities of audio it's shameful to produce a telecast with such inferior audio.

Ken,

Even if he doesn't bother you, wouldn't you rather listen to an announcer you enjoy then someone you have to, "dial out"?Not necessarly. As a matter of fact, after a few cocktails, I do my own play by play......

NFL Network has 8 games, or about 24 hours, of compelling content and 364 days of filler.Have you watched NFL Replay? I think that is also compelling content, for games I haven't seen. After that, not so much.

Personally I happen to think that the audio is 1/2 the broadcast and not just the stepchild in the production. If the quality of video was at the same level in relationship to the quality of the audio the picture would be close to unwatchable. You would find out real fast whose job that was and he would be held accountable. But when it comes to audio, somehow it's given a pass. With the current potential technical capablities of audio it's shameful to produce a telecast with such inferior audio.

100% agree it's a bad decision. I also feel 5.1 is a big part of the 'HD' experence.

Not necessarly. As a matter of fact, after a few cocktails, I do my own play by play......

Reminds me of a TV sportscaster on the West Coast I knew... He'd start tossing a ball around with the dog and before you knew it, it was a full blown play-by-play !

Here are a few cable channels and what they typically charge:

ESPN $2.96
RSNs: $1-$2.50
Big Ten Network $1.00 ($0.10 outside Big Ten territory)
Disney Channel $1.00 (commercial free)
TNT $ 0.89
Fox News Channel $ 0.75
NFL Network $ 0.70 (MCN 4/30/07)
USA $ 0.60
CNN $ 0.44
Discovery $ 0.25
MTV $0.25
TBS $0.25
A&E $ 0.22
History Channel $0.20
National Geographic $ 0.20
MSNBC $ 0.15
Fox Business Network $0.11- $0.12 (Rupert Murdoch 9/28/07)
Court TV $ 0.11
Hallmark Channel $ 0.10 (Hallmark 1Q ’07 financial statement)
Oxygen $ 0.09

Main Source: Kagan Research 10/06 and later

Regional Sports Network License Fees
Comcast has been saying that the license fee charged by the Big Ten Network is too high compared to other networks, although many of its owned channels, indicated below in bold, charge more. The monthly fee per subscriber for regional sports nets ranges from $2.15 to a mere 20 cents, with the average $1.44. Big Ten Network reportedly is charging $1 per sub.

Channel Monthly Fee Per Subscriber

1. YES-------------------$2.15
2. SportsNet NY----------$2.00
3. Comcast Sports NW-----$1.98
4. Comcast Philadelphia--$1.97
5. Comcast Mid Atlantic--$1.95
6. Fox Sports N-Minn-----$1.95
7. NESN------------------$1.95
8. FS West---------------$1.93
9. FS Detroit------------$1.92
10. Comcast Chicago------$1.90
11. FS Northwest---------$1.90
12. FS Southwest---------$1.85
13. MSG Network----------$1.85
14. FS New York----------$1.80
15. FS Rocky Mountain----$1.78
16. FS Bay Area----------$1.77
17. FS North-Wisconsin---$1.70
18. FS Ohio--------------$1.70
19. Prime Ticket (LA) ---$1.70
20. FS Arizona ----------$1.65
21. Altitude (Denver)----$1.60
22. FS Pittsburgh--------$1.60
23. FS Midwest-----------$1.55
24. FS South-------------$1.50
25. MASN---------------- $1.50
26. Sun Sports-----------$1.45
27. FS Florida-----------$1.35
28. FS New England-------$1.30
29. SportsTime Ohio------$1.30
30. Big Ten Network------$1.00
31. Cox Cable 4 SD-------$0.95
32. Comcast SN West------$0.85
33. Carolina Time Warner-$0.75
34. Cox New Orleans------$0.50
35. Royals TV/RSTN-------$0.38
36. Comcast Sports SE----$0.37
37. SportSouth ----------$0.33
38. Chicagoland----------$0.31
39. The Mountain---------$0.20

• Source: SNL Kagan

Thanks Fred, I knew you had it somewhere. :)

The "funniest" part of that list is numbers 3, 4, 5, 10 and I think 11 and 16 are also Comcast owned now, so really, who is charging too much? :D

fredfa, I did not see the NFLN "live game" surcharge listed.

fredfa, I did not see the NFLN "live game" surcharge listed.

The 70 cents listed is the fee that includes the live games. Those providers who signed early with the NFL before the live games were given a much lower rate.

NFL Network Tackles 10.1 Million Viewers

14.6 Coverage Rating For ‘Boys-Pack Game Is Cable’s Second-Highest In 14 Years

By Mike Reynolds -- Multichannel News, 12/4/2007 9:57:00 AM

NFL Network’s high-profile Dallas Cowboys-Green Bay Packers match-up produced marquee results last Thursday night, grabbing more than 10 million viewers and tackling what officials said was the highest-rated cable program in 14 years.

The Nov.29 Thursday Night Football contest, featuring a pair of 10-1 teams in a tilt won by America’s Team by a 37-27 count, recorded a 14.6 coverage area rating, according to Nielsen Media Research data. Network officials said that was the highest-rated cable show since CNN’s Larry King Live presented a free trade debate by then Vice President Al Gore and Ross Perot in November 1993, which scored an 18.1 rating.

All told, NFL Network’s coverage of the ‘Boys-Pack attracted 10.1 million viewers, 100,000 more than the second through fourth most-watched cable shows – USA Network’s Law & Order: Criminal Intent on USA, Nickelodeon’s SpongeBob SquarePants and Disney Channel Hannah Montana on Disney –combined that night, according to network officials. During the week of Nov. 26 through Dec. 2, the game trailed only ESPN's Monday Night Football Nov. 26 match-up between the Pittsburgh Steelers-Miami Dolphins, which delivered 13.1 million watchers on average.

Last season, NFL Network’s eight primetime games averaged 4.1 million viewers, while its 2007 opener, the Thanksgiving night game between the Indianapolis Colts-Atlanta Falcons, scored with 4.21 million watchers.

With its total viewer tally, the Nov. 29 Thursday Night Football ranks as the 11th most-watched show in cable this year, behind the medium’s all-time best, Disney Channel’s High School Musical 2, which attracted 17.2 million for its Aug. 17 premiere, eight MNF games and the June 10 series finale of HBO’s The Sopranos, which hit with 11.9 million viewers.

Moreover, the Dallas-Green Bay game posted a 5.9 mark among men 18 to 49,the highest that night in all of broadcast, including fresh episodes of CBS’s Survivor and NBC’s My Name is Earl, 30 Rock and ER, and cable.

The NFL Network counts 35 million homes through deals with DirecTV, Dish, Verizon’ FiOS TV, Cox Communications and some 240 others distributors. However, it remains on the distribution sidelines with Time Warner Cable, Charter Communications, Cablevision Systems Corp. and Suddenlink, among other operators that won’t cede to the service’s wont for a 70 cents monthly subscriber fee and digital-basic positioning. Moreover, Comcast, after winning a court ruling in May, has migrated the network to a sports tier, sacking some 8 million subscribers in the process.

On the Web, NFL.com Live Thursday Night Football, which offered live game look-ins at 15 and 45 minutes past the hour and select “red zone” visits, produced nearly 2 million live streams and 250,000 users during peak periods. Those results were comparable to March Madness on Demand, streamed coverage of The Masters and recent Space Shuttle landing among live Internet events, according to league officials who pegged the average length of site visit that night at 40 minutes.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6509525.html?desc=topstory