Well we've got mold in the basement.

Any tips?

It happened because the whole house humidifier was leaking. Water dripped down, puddled up on the cement and the dricore floor, and mold started to form on the back of the blueboard (sheetrock), on/under the studs, and then on the walls and baseboards of the space adjacent to it, and beyond.

So far we have dried up the spill where accessible, cranked the heat in the basement and broke out the dehumidifier, and sprayed the visible mold with white vinegar. This is in the playroom, so we want to get this right.

Here are some pics:

It was a very slow drip off the humidifier - but it looks like there is some mold in its supply lines too:
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/DSC_1501-1.jpg
Some shots of the sheetrock and the studs:
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/DSC_1498.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/DSC_1500.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/DSC_1499.jpg
The other side of the wall:
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/DSC_1495.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/DSC_1496.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/DSC_1497.jpg
The area it affects is this toy area (rightmost section). To the left is the wall adjacent to the spill, and it starts to work around right to left.
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u129/dc_pilgrim/playroom-n.jpg

They sell microban for use in spray bottles. I would let the wood dry out and they spray everything with either diluted bleech or the microban. If that doesn't work then I would replace that drywall.

First and foremost though correct the problem that got the water there in the first place. As my Grandfather used to say "If you don't fix it now, it'll be like you're 'pissing in the wind' and won't get anywhere". He was an interesting man.

Hope that helps.

Water will often get into basements: It is in the air and condenses on various surfaces, it comes in through the cement which is porous. Of course plumbing leaks are the worst, but in all cases a main goal is to allow any water to drain or dry quickly.

that white stuff covering the insulation (or is it only covering the HVAC?) looks like a vapor barrier/retarder. if water gets behind that plastic it can't dry and will provide a nice damp environment for mold. get rid of all that vapor barrier so that any dampness can dry.

Also the baseplates don't look to be pressure treated.

many recommend bleach but see this: http://www.moldacrossamerica.org/notobleach.htm

They recommend borates instead: http://www.moldacrossamerica.org/borates.htm

Also it seems that at least some rock wool is treated with boarates and so should resist mold growth better than fiberglass insulation. maybe use that in the future.

sorry to hear about it, but good luck.

I would not try to save the affected drywall. Get yourself a straight edge and just cut out some big pieces and fit in the new, Tape and mud the seams. Paint.

Treat the wood before putting the drywall back.

The quicker you get that moldy drywall out the door the better off you will be. It will speed up the drying of everything else.

I had a friend who had a basement that got a couple of inches of water. The company that did the repair came in and just cut out everything below 4 ft then brought in full sheets and replaced them. If you originally hung your drywall horizontally I guess that would make the process a little easier. You could stick your knife through the gap from the back.

Just another thought. You may want to drill an exploratory hole in the drycore to see if you have any puddling going on underneath. You could always patch the hole.

also These guys come in a 5 pack for $39 at smarthome.

http://www.smarthome.com/images/7163pside3big.jpg

They sell microban for use in spray bottles. I would let the wood dry out and they spray everything with either diluted bleech or the microban. If that doesn't work then I would replace that drywall.


I'll add microbahn to the list. The water is turned off in the humidifier that was leaking. We'll get the guy in before we turn it back on.

Water will often get into basements: It is in the air and condenses on various surfaces, it comes in through the cement which is porous. Of course plumbing leaks are the worst, but in all cases a main goal is to allow any water to drain or dry quickly.

that white stuff covering the insulation (or is it only covering the HVAC?) looks like a vapor barrier/retarder. if water gets behind that plastic it can't dry and will provide a nice damp environment for mold. get rid of all that vapor barrier so that any dampness can dry.

Covers the HVAC only. Water dripped down the surface of it, not sure it got behind, but we'll have to check.

Also the baseplates don't look to be pressure treated.

Walls were built on dricore. Which is a subfloor system designed to address floods and condensation from the cement. Water from the top is unexpected.

many recommend bleach but see this: http://www.moldacrossamerica.org/notobleach.htm

They recommend borates instead: http://www.moldacrossamerica.org/borates.htm

Also it seems that at least some rock wool is treated with boarates and so should resist mold growth better than fiberglass insulation. maybe use that in the future.

sorry to hear about it, but good luck.

My wife saw something sayign avoid bleech, and recomended the vinegar. We started with that. We'll look at boarates as well.

I would not try to save the affected drywall. Get yourself a straight edge and just cut out some big pieces and fit in the new, Tape and mud the seams. Paint.

Treat the wood before putting the drywall back.


We were debating that, kind of hoping to avoid. It is blueboard (veneer plaster), so the patch job would be a bit messier. We are a little concerned about the carpet too.

Just another thought. You may want to drill an exploratory hole in the drycore to see if you have any puddling going on underneath. You could always patch the hole.

Yup, this isn't a bad thought either. The surface mold and water damaged got to the other side of that alcove, we are wondering what are up against there. Hadn't really thought of a diagnosis strategy.



also These guys come in a 5 pack for $39 at smarthome.


Not a bad idea. We have an arrestor by the water heater, but obviously there can be many culprits.

I second the water alarms. One just saved me recently. (I'll exlpain when I update my thread soon. -- I"m at the insulation stage now.)

what is the blueboard? Is that some kind of drywall that is supposed to be better for basements? I"ve seen recommendations for paperless drywall for use in basements to deny mold some of its food source.

Sorry about your troubles Dave,

So close yet, so far...

zmisst, blueboard is commonly used when your going to plaster your walls as Dave did.
Regular sheetrock is to smooth for plaster. Greenboard used to be mostly used for basements and bathrooms due to humidity and moisture but was lined with paper. The paperless is the latest and greatest to help fight mold and is what im using but the cost per sheet is greater. This is what I've used so far and plan to finish with it.

I had a scary episode as well with my HVAC unit which has a heating coil and is hooked up to my hydronic boiler for forced hot air. One of the fittings was leaking ever so slightly and didn't become an issue until the heating for the rest of the house turned on. Once the pressure built up it leaked quite a bit and I hadn't been down to the basement for about a week. Luckily no sheet rock in this area yet, but the blower unit sits on top of a wooden plate with a metal base. The wooden base developed mold, I allowed for it to dry once repaired and have been scrubbing with a water and bleach solution. Let it dry and repeat, most of the damage is now gone but still trying to get that last stubborn bit of it.

I second the water alarms. One just saved me recently. (I'll exlpain when I update my thread soon. -- I"m at the insulation stage now.)

what is the blueboard? Is that some kind of drywall that is supposed to be better for basements? I"ve seen recommendations for paperless drywall for use in basements to deny mold some of its food source.

Blueboard is just sheetrock with a modified (blue) paper facing that takes a skim coat of plaster better than regular drywall. Greenboard is the marginally water-resistant stuff used in bathrooms and other humid places (USG Humitek).

The paperless drywall you read about it is a synthetic-gypsum sandwich, and when used with chemical setting-type compound will not hold moisture and is impervious to mold. It's also way more expensive than any of the above.

Good luck with your basement, Dave!

Mold needs moisture to flourish--you took away its source of water, so it won't grow. As long as everything is dry, it's dead and/or sporulated. Doesn't hurt to treat it, but I wouldn't get too hung up on it. The spores are everywhere. Without moisture, they do nothing.

Sorry about your troubles Dave,

So close yet, so far...

I had a scary episode as well with my HVAC unit which has a heating coil and is hooked up to my hydronic boiler for forced hot air.

I see misery loves company. My progress is plenty slow without extra obsticles!

Good luck with your basement, Dave!

Thanks, I have some calls to make. I am leaning towards cutting the blueboard under the lowest shelf away, and replacing it with new uncontaminated material. We did a little DIY plaster work, but I am not sure that qualifies us for tight quarters though (movement was real restricted painting). So we may need to get a pro looking for a side job before the holidays.

We just don't want this to blow up on us down the line.

Years ago I worked for a company that specialized in removing and repairing water damage. Here's some advice. You may laugh or blow it off but that is up to you. You may think the disposable suits and respirator are overkill, but they are a hell of alot cheaper and more pleasant than a trip to the hospital or years of cronic respiratory problems. Some types of mold are relatively harmless. Some aren't. Treat all of them like they are toxic, unless you know exactly what type you are dealing with.


You should do some searches on removing mold. It's toxic. Respirator, gloves and disposable jumpsuits, and shoe covers should be worn. Tape wrists and ankles of the suit. Bring all the tools you need with you. Don't leave the area once you start. Keep anyone else out, until you are done. Avoid using power tools. You dont want dust flying around. Remove all trim etc before even dealing with the contaminated board. You might want to peel back that rug and see what you have under there. Score the blueboard with a knife along each stud (helps to bring a square). Cut board into 16" strips. Put them immediately into trash bags. Tape the tops closed after 5-6 strips per bag. You dont want these breaking open. Take them immediately outside. Keep tearing down the walls until you are sure you are way past the issue. Use whatever chemical you are going to use to kill. Borates etc. Don't use a fan to dry anything out, until you are sure the mold is gone.

Food for thought Ross. Not ruling it out, and my wife votes your way.

Interesting link on the EPA for anyone else with this issue. Geared to a commercial setting, but concepts are similar:

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/checklist.html
http://www.epa.gov/mold/table1.html
http://www.epa.gov/mold/table2.html

HVAC guy stopped by. He diagnosed the problem. The humidifier drains via gravity to a pump that expels the water from the house. I guess it got backed up which caused the drip. He is coming back tomorrow with parts and will redo it.

Years ago I worked for a company that specialized in removing and repairing water damage. Here's some advice. You may laugh or blow it off but that is up to you. You may think the disposable suits and respirator are overkill, but they are a hell of alot cheaper and more pleasant than a trip to the hospital or years of cronic respiratory problems. Some types of mold are relatively harmless. Some aren't. Treat all of them like they are toxic, unless you know exactly what type you are dealing with.


You should do some searches on removing mold. It's toxic. Respirator, gloves and disposable jumpsuits, and shoe covers should be worn. Tape wrists and ankles of the suit. Bring all the tools you need with you. Don't leave the area once you start. Keep anyone else out, until you are done. Avoid using power tools. You dont want dust flying around. Remove all trim etc before even dealing with the contaminated board. You might want to peel back that rug and see what you have under there. Score the blueboard with a knife along each stud (helps to bring a square). Cut board into 16" strips. Put them immediately into trash bags. Tape the tops closed after 5-6 strips per bag. You dont want these breaking open. Take them immediately outside. Keep tearing down the walls until you are sure you are way past the issue. Use whatever chemical you are going to use to kill. Borates etc. Don't use a fan to dry anything out, until you are sure the mold is gone.


As I said before, mold needs moisture to live and grow. Your house is filled with mold spores now, as is mine and everyone elses. We aren't dying. When you take away their source of moisture, they are done. They won't grow. Don't stir up a hornet's nest by pulling out all the drywall. That's a waste. If people only knew how many moldy boards went into building their houses! Lumber gets wet all the time, grows mold, and is still used for construction. Yet, once under roof, it is not a problem. Not every green organism is a chronic Stachybotris problem destined to toast your lungs and give you a lifetime of auto-immune disorders. If you are really worried, culture it, and see which organism it is. Simple enough. By the time you get fungal culture results back, it will be dry and dead, and it will most likely be a non-pathogenic fungus.

You also make a good case. I would much rather spray some mold killing chemicals, clean up the mess and not entirely turn over the apple cart. Given the visible damage that isn't inconsistent with what the EPA says for commercial situations. That said, in the morning after a supply run, I will at least lift the carpet and make sure there is no further water supply under the carpet or under the dricore.

One thing I wouldn't do: call my insurance company and file a claim for water damage. They track insurance claims, especially ones that might effect the insurability of a property, in something called the CLUE report (or CLUE database). Because of the increase in mold claims, many insurers won't insure a property or will jack up the rates for a house that has/had mold or water damage.

For more info see: http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs26-CLUE.htm

Do you think it's best to seal the concrete floor?

Before I decided to go with dricore, I wasn't planning on sealing, since I haven't had any water problems and any water spilled now is rather quickly absorbed into the concrete. I thought it would be best for spillages to be absorbed rather than sitting in the carpet pad with no place to go.

I guess the dricore would prevent any future spills from getting out through the floor though? So if i lose that benefit, maybe it'd be worth the time and effort to seal the floor as a preventative measure?

What do you think - or is it really no big deal either way?
Thanks

When we had leaks in our basement (other home) we ignored it for about 10 years. The first thing we did was replace the carpet with tile. The home was already very old and was lived in by the contractor that built our neighborhood. We would just run the dehumidifier and fans. The leaks became worse and worse. Eventually they installed a french drain. We tiled the old theater area because of my allergies long before there was any serious problems and the leak as far as I know was on the other side our basement mostly since that is where I always saw a leak coming from. It was in the utility room and my bathroom so it wasn't given the most expensive option which was to fully repair it. Installing a sun pump in the window of the basement helped but only when we kept an eye on it. I had to periodically check on it to make sure it wasn't clogged or if it had became unoperational otherwise. While I was away, it became so serious that the entire basement became flooded, theater included. They contacted the insurance company and they fully repaired the problem. They even painted the walls black again for us (which I had to paint and am still painting over). They also gave us a water alarm in case the problem came back. We have the water shut of to that bathroom since it isn't in use. The next owner of our home (if goes as I have been told) is not even using the basement and moving the utilities room upstairs since she does not want a downstairs but would like to live next to our neighbor, her daughter. I'm fixing it up nice anyway.

Might as well give the update.

My basement is poured concrete, then a drylok type product (don't remember the brand), then dricore floor, then premuim rubber carpet pad, then carpet. Walls were framed on the dricore, then blueboard (sheetrock with a paper substrate), then veneer plaster.

When the humidifier leaked, it created a puddle that went under the dricore and got the blueboard, lumber, and eventually the walls moist enough for mold to grow. Based on the advice here, we spent a couple bucks and got a test kit. The report came back, and it was harmless.

You are supposed to react to leaks quickly. We didn't do so great. Took a few days from stopping the leak till we had the right chemicals to kill it and treat it. Or at least the best we could find locally. We also got gloves goggles and a resporator.

When I peeled back the carpet pad, the dricore was a little damp. Had we used a pad other than rubber, it probably would have been moldy and we'd have had to cut the pad and the carpet away. Because this type of rubber is not habitable for mold, we got a little lucky, since we bought it mostly for comfort.

So if I go through the products.

Drylok type sealer - not a factor
Dricore - may have allowed the water to spread, but seemed to also allow it to evaporate. I drilled test holes, everything was fine.
Rubber Pad - I think this was a big plus. Not a bit of mold formed even when damp for a few days.
Carpet - protected by pad
Blueboard - a moisture resistant sheetrock may be better, although the veneer plaster is a nice finish
wood studs - had some mold on them, cleaned up fine. Steel might be superior.

On the whole, a minor leak, was quite a pain, as we don't take it too lightly. But I feel that some of the choices we made earlier were on the whole a net plus. I am glad its taken care of now. Hopefully I can get back to theater building in the new year.

Anytime the RH goes above 70 you are creating a comforable environment for mold so a whole house humidifier should be monitored carefully even if it does not leak.

When doing any mold cleanup use HEPA filtration to trap the spores to prevent health problems.

Carpet should always be removed or you are likely to reseed the room. Not really worth the risk.

Plaster due to its PH is highly resistant to mold which is why it is more of a problem with newer post-1950 homes where sheetrock was used. There are types of drywall including one manufactured by Corning that has a glass surface on one side to prevent mold from attaching itself to the surface. Good idea for basements or anywhere moisture may be a concern.