Like so many others, I'm having trouble making up my mind on plasma vs. LCD. As I'm looking at > 55", it'll be an expensive purchase so I'd like to get it right the first time. The 2 at the top of each list right now is the Panasonic 58PZ700U LCD and Pioneer 6010FD plasma.

When I come to AVS, invariably the LCD forum will have roughly twice (often more) the number of current visitors. Any opinions as to why this is?

Just curious...
TIA,
Woody

Simple answer.....Maybe LCD's are more popular????

However it doesn't really matter in the long run does it?....if you like your TV choice(s), then pick one and enjoy life...very simple solution.

:)

Not sure about the number of viewers, but my best guess is because alot more people can afford <42" screens, which are primarily LCD.

One important thing here with the two tvs you mentioned is that they are both Plasmas! The Panasonic 58PZ700U is a Plasma, not an LCD. Your decision in that size range is going to be which PLASMA to go with, not Plasma vs LCD.

Short answer -- LCD sales are far greater than plasma sales. The masses tend to go for lowest price and 'best selling' tv's (best selling does not = best quality; i.e. Vizio), w/ PQ not being a priority. Plasma buyers tend to be more interested in PQ, and are willing to spend more to get it.

Ooops, you're absolutely right Renaud... My head is spinning from all the research. Instead of the Panasonic, I meant to say Toshiba 57LX177 LCD...

OK, so most popular doesn't relate to best quality always... I was hoping that was the case.
Thanks all...

Ooops, you're absolutely right Renaud... My head is spinning from all the research. Instead of the Panasonic, I meant to say Toshiba 57LX177 LCD...

OK, so most popular doesn't relate to best quality always... I was hoping that was the case.
Thanks all...

It may or it may not always be the case...;)

thisis the plasma only forum. your thread should have been started in the general flat panel tech forum. that is where the umpteen zillion plasma vs. lcd threads are.

Short answer -- LCD sales are far greater than plasma sales. The masses tend to go for lowest price and 'best selling' tv's (best selling does not = best quality; i.e. Vizio), w/ PQ not being a priority. Plasma buyers tend to be more interested in PQ, and are willing to spend more to get it.

I think it's mostly untrue because you're confusing cause and effect.
LCDs attract more people because they get good PQ for lower price, not because plasmas have better PQ for same price - plasmas have their low-tiered, lower quality offerings just like the named Vizio or even some el cheapo Panasonics. Plasmas tend to look overpriced compared to LCDs and also have no place in a well-lit room, generally speaking. Plasmas also have to fight the long-standing though now largely gone burn-in problems, the put up with temporary image-retention etc etc.
If you step above the el cheapo level then price/performance value actually gets worse for plasma: IMO high-end LCDs - latest Sony, Samsung ones - have actually BETTER OVERALL PQ than plasmas in their price range. It's not an accident Pioneer is mounting heavy losses, canceling plant etc - it is already very though to compete with LCD and it will get worse, LCDs getting better and better by every six months. Plasmas traditionally had better blacks but in the high-end LCD range it's not true anymore, check out Sony's latest 30-bit panels, they look amazing. Pio might still have some 5% better blacks but that's a very hard sell whe they charge $1k-2k more for it yet they still have to pu up with the traditional anti-plasma myths (BI, IR, heat etc.)
Sure, at low-end LCDs have even ******** PQ than any low-end plasma - there are very cheap LCD panels while plasma is still struggling to drive down the price to be able to compete in the midrange, forget the low-end...
By large LCDs appear to have lot less chance for things to go wrong - I don't think it's necessarily true but again, average consumer rarely show up here, at AVS... :cool:

PS: mods, please move this thread to the "FP Tech" segment.

thisis the plasma only forum. your thread should have been started in the general flat panel tech forum. that is where the umpteen zillion plasma vs. lcd threads are.

I was initially kinda only interested in the plasma forum's folks opinion...

The uninformed always outnumber the informed. Didn't you get the memo?

For the second quarter in a row, the plasma TV category continued to outpace all other technologies in the 50-inch and above screen sizes, Quixel said, “but in the third quarter 2007, even 42-inch sales showed increases in volume and value.”

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6500677.html



Quixel: Q3 DV Sales Grow
by Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 11/13/2007 12:26:00 PM

Portland, Ore. — Although LCD TVs have been on a roll in recent years, the plasma TV category held its ground in larger screen sizes, according to third-quarter retail sales analysis issued this week from display market research firm Quixel Research.

Meanwhile, microdisplay rear-projection TV sets enjoyed modest sales growth in the 60-inch and larger screen sizes.

For the second quarter in a row, the plasma TV category continued to outpace all other technologies in the 50-inch and above screen sizes, Quixel said, “but in the third quarter 2007, even 42-inch sales showed increases in volume and value.”

Quixel Research’s “Plasma TV Market Review for Q3 2007” revealed that both the 50- to 59-inch and 42- to 49-inch screen size segments showed significant growth from the second quarter of 2007 to third quarter of 2007, up 31 percent and 27 percent in units, respectively.

“There is no question that large-screen LCD TV sales are right at the heels of the plasma category but many consumers still prefer plasma TVs,” stated Tamaryn Pratt, Quixel’s principal. “Putting individual picture quality preferences aside, the top-selling 50-inch PDPs were all under $1,999 in the third quarter, making it the best value for a large-screen flat TV.”

Quarter-to-quarter revenue for the 50- to 59-inch segment was up 33 percent, and rose 26 percent in the 42- to 49-inch segment over the same time period.

Overall, the PDP category was up 25 percent in units from the second quarter 2007 to the third quarter 2007, but down 10 percent year-to-year, Quixel said.

Average selling prices were relatively stable in the period, and kept revenues up quarter-to-quarter as sales topped $1.4 billion in third quarter 2007 compared with $1.1 billion in the second quarter.

However, on a year-to-year basis, the PDP category was down 30 percent in revenues, Quixel said.

The total value of the U.S. advanced TV market accounted for almost $7.5 billion in revenue in the third quarter of 2007 and the plasma TV segment represented more than 20 percent of that market.

In LCD TV, 1080p sales showed major growth in the third quarter of 2007, after several quarters of slowly building momentum.

Quixel’s “LCD TV Market Review for Q3 2007” reveals “explosive growth” in the large-screen LCD TV segments 40 inches and above, with unit sales up 113 percent over the second quarter of 2007.

“Plasma manufacturers have their work cut out for them,” said Pratt. “The LCD TV category has already out sold plasma at 42 inches and is now upping the stakes with 1080p resolution models. The wide availability of 46- and 47-inch 1080p LCD TV models will soon put pressure on 50-inch plasma, where 1080p is not yet widely available.”

Revenue for the 40- to 43-inch 1080p LCD TV segment grew 188 percent quarter-to-quarter topping $1.7 billion. From third quarter of 2006 to third quarter 2007 the segment saw revenue increase 362 percent, Quixel said.

The 40- to 43-inch 1080p LCD TV segment represented 10 percent of the total category’s revenues or up 3 percent quarter to quarter.

Overall unit sales for the LCD TV category were up 29 percent quarter-to-quarter and 73 percent year-to-year.

In value, the LCD TV category generated $5.2 billion in revenue or up 38 percent from Q2 2007 revenues of $3.8 billion. Comparing year-to-year, LCD TV revenues rose 72 percent.

LCD TV represented almost 70 percent of the total advanced TV market. Quixel Research is calling for category volume to triple by 2010.

Both flat-panel TV categories continued to put pressure on microdisplay rear-projection TV sales, although both U.S. unit and revenue results rose in the third quarter of 2007, Quixel said.

The 60-inch and larger screen sizes led the category in overall growth, according to Quixel Research’s “Micro Display Rear Projection Market Review for Third Quarter 2007.”

The study found unit sales for the U.S. microdisplay rear-projection TV (MD RPTV) category were up 8 percent from the second quarter of 2007 with sales of models 55 inches and larger tallying the largest quarter-to-quarter increase.

“While smaller MD RPTVs are no longer competitive in the overall 40-inch and above display space, in the third quarter, the models in the 55-inch and above screen size segments proved meaningful, with those segments increasing 9 percent and 37 percent in units respectively,” said Pratt. “These large-screen models were closing in on half of the volume in Q3 and currently have over half the value.”

Revenue for the 55- to 59-inch segment were up 3 percent from the second quarter 2007 to third quarter 2007, while the 60-inch and above segment saw value grow 37 percent for the same time period, according to Quixel.

Revenue for the category topped $600 million in the third quarter, increasing 13 percent from second quarter 2007 results of $532 million.

Pricing pressure from exploding flat-panel TV sales caused a 56 percent decline in MD RPTV revenue compared with the third quarter of 2006, Quixel said. Year-to-year unit sales were also down, falling 48 percent.

Microdisplay rear-projection set sales accounted for an 8 percent share of the third quarter advanced television market, Quixel said.

Shortage of smaller LCD panels has increased sales and demand for Plasma sets, and has created a shortage in both types.

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20071107PD219.html



Tight LCD TV panel supply leads to PDP TV panel shortages also



Latest news
Max Wang, Taipei; Esther Lam, DIGITIMES [Thursday 8 November 2007]

Buoyant demand for small- and medium-size LCD panels which has consumed LCD TV panel capacity while stimulating procurement of PDP (plasma display panel) TVs, is now leading to a shortage of PDP panels in the region of around 10%, industry players in Taiwan have revealed.

David Su, senior vice president of AU Optronics (AUO) explained that that the limited quantity of fresh TFT LCD panels and buoyant demand has led to a shortage of 32-inch LCD TV panels. Some panel makers, striving to meet shipments targets for flat panel displays, have thus turned to increasing their procurement amount of PDP TV panels to compensate.

Besides the side effect from the shortage of LCD panels, the industry players said the transition to the high season for TVs is also a major reason for the PDP TV panel shortages. China is leading among all regions in terms of PDP procurements, they noted. 42-inch PDP TVs are seeing the highest demand in China, while demand for LG's recently launched 32-inch PDP TV is also good, the sources added.
http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/statusicon/user_invisible.gif http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/report.php?p=12308752) http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/misc/progress.gif http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/buttons/edit.gif (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=12308752) http://images.avsforum.com/avs-images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=12308752)

Display Search projects bright future for Plasmas:


The Future Still Looks Bright for Plasma TVs:
Dramatic Cost Reductions and Significant Performance
Improvements Lie Ahead
By Ross Young, Founder and President, DisplaySearch and YS Chung, Director of FPD Material and Technology
Analyst, DisplaySearch
Overview
Plasma TVs are considered the natural successors to the CRT by many. Like CRTs, they provide an emissive,
phosphor-based solution that is well suited to showing full-color, fast moving video images to a room full of viewers at all
angles. While large plasma TVs were initially priced at out of reach of all but the wealthiest consumers resulting in a
limited market, plasma TV prices are now available at increasingly affordable levels and the market has rapidly
accelerated. The strong acceptance of plasma TVs at lower prices has given manufacturers the confidence to invest
hundreds of millions of dollars in additional capacity and tens of millions in research and development which will further
reduce costs and improve performance.
The most exciting advancement in plasma TVs is occurring in luminous efficacy. Luminous efficacy can be simply
expressed as the relationship between luminance (brightness) and power consumption. As luminous efficacy improves,
higher brightness can be achieved at the same power levels and lower power can be achieved at the same brightness
levels. But the effects of higher luminous efficacy are not just limited to brightness and power. Improvements in luminous
efficacy will have far reaching effects in:
• Brightness
• Power

............................................................ ....................

Go to link to read the full 25 page technical report.


ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...Plasma_TVs.pdf (ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/consumer_electronics/whitepapers/Future_Looks_Bright_for_Plasma_TVs.pdf)

It nicely supports what I wrote: plasmas have little chance to compete with LCDs. Plasmas only growth came from the 50"+ range - which is the size class where LCDs are just becoming competitive. Give them another year or so and plasma market growth will completely disappear from 46"-52" (LCDs are already taking over sales here), their only growth will be coming from the market of 60" and higher, I bet.

Plasma all the way ... as long as you are good to your plasma. I bought the brand new model samsung 52' lcd and then took it back to get the panasonic th-58PZ700U which was only slightly more exspensive than the lcd and i got 6 more horizontal inches. the ghosting with lcd's is still terrible. and samsungs 120hz does almost nothing for the picture but create artifacts.

Display Search projects bright future for Plasmas:


The Future Still Looks Bright for Plasma TVs:
Dramatic Cost Reductions and Significant Performance
Improvements Lie Ahead
By Ross Young, Founder and President, DisplaySearch and YS Chung, Director of FPD Material and Technology
Analyst, DisplaySearch
Overview
Plasma TVs are considered the natural successors to the CRT by many. Like CRTs, they provide an emissive,
phosphor-based solution that is well suited to showing full-color, fast moving video images to a room full of viewers at all
angles. While large plasma TVs were initially priced at out of reach of all but the wealthiest consumers resulting in a
limited market, plasma TV prices are now available at increasingly affordable levels and the market has rapidly
accelerated. The strong acceptance of plasma TVs at lower prices has given manufacturers the confidence to invest
hundreds of millions of dollars in additional capacity and tens of millions in research and development which will further
reduce costs and improve performance.
The most exciting advancement in plasma TVs is occurring in luminous efficacy. Luminous efficacy can be simply
expressed as the relationship between luminance (brightness) and power consumption. As luminous efficacy improves,
higher brightness can be achieved at the same power levels and lower power can be achieved at the same brightness
levels. But the effects of higher luminous efficacy are not just limited to brightness and power. Improvements in luminous
efficacy will have far reaching effects in:
• Brightness
• Power

............................................................ ....................

Go to link to read the full 25 page technical report.


ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasoni...Plasma_TVs.pdf (ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/consumer_electronics/whitepapers/Future_Looks_Bright_for_Plasma_TVs.pdf)

LOL :cool:

Last thing I would believe is any of these 'victory announcements' - go and check similar LCD publications... usually both are full of FUD and marketing BS. :cool:

I don't see why anyone cares what technology takes the lead, as long as it has a good PQ. So far, plasma is the leader in PQ. When and if LCD becomes better, that's what I'll buy. If OLED gets there faster and cheaper with bigger displays, that'll be the next display in my house. I'm not a tech fan, I'm a PQ fan.

Neutral advice:

Consumer Reports:Reasons To Buy Plasma Or Lcd
Why to buy a Plasma, and why to buy an LCD



Why buy a plasma TV?
To get more screen for your money. Inch for inch, plasma offers more bang for the buck than an LCD TV, so the same budget can buy you a bigger screen. Most of the 50-inch plasma sets we recommend cost $1,500 to $2,000. The 47-inch LCD Quick Picks cost $2,300 to $2,600, and the 52-inch sets cost $3,800 to $4,000. (Prices were current at press time but might drop this fall.)

To enjoy a movie-theater experience. A good plasma TV's deep black levels and high contrast can do justice to almost anything you watch, including movies and TV programs with dark scenes. The strong contrast and realistic, accurate colors can result in rich, natural-looking images, especially in dim lighting. Most LCD sets have trouble displaying the same strong, dark blacks as plasma sets. On certain LCD sets, uneven brightness from the backlight can create cloudy areas that can be distracting in dark scenes.

For a wide viewing angle. With a plasma TV, as with the familiar picture-tube set, the images onscreen look the same from almost any angle. That's a big plus if a TV will be watched by a number of people sitting around a room.

It's a different story with LCD TVs. (See Why buy an LCD TV?) Though some newer models have gotten better, most LCDs still look their best only from a limited sweet spot in front of the screen. As you move off to the side, the picture quality deteriorates, appearing increasingly washed out or dim. Vertical position also matters--say, if you're sitting on the floor or watching an LCD set that's mounted above a mantelpiece.

On some TV sets, those problems can be obvious, especially with indoor scenes and flesh tones. The degradation is less noticeable with bright images and vivid colors such as those you'd see in a football game. Because TVs in retail showrooms often display sporting events, you might not notice a problem with viewing angle when looking at a TV in a store. Picture settings also minimize the effect of viewing angle on picture quality. TVs are usually set to vivid or dynamic mode, which pumps up brightness and color to a level that looks great under fluorescent lights but unnatural in a typical home. Ask a salesperson to reset a TV to normal or standard mode and tune in nonsports programming to get a better idea of how a TV might look at home, especially from an angle.




Why buy an LCD TV?
You have a very bright room. LCDs are generally brighter than plasma TVs, and their screens are less reflective. That makes them better for daytime viewing in rooms with lots of windows or for night-time use in rooms with bright lighting. Some plasma TVs can look a bit dim in bright lighting when set to the normal or standard mode, which we generally recommend for home use. You can switch to the vivid mode or raise the brightness control to compensate, but the picture quality might suffer. Another issue with most plasmas is that the glass screens are subject to reflections and glare. If you have the lights on while watching dark scenes, you might see mirrorlike reflections on a plasma set.

For heavy use with video games or as a PC monitor. Both types of flat panels can do the job, but with an LCD, there's no chance static images will burn in. With a plasma TV, burn-in is a concern with video games, computer programs, and TV programming that has fixed images onscreen for a long time. That includes station logos, news tickers, even the bars alongside standard-def pictures. Many plasma sets have screen-saver features to minimize risk, but burn-in is still possible.

With either an LCD or plasma TV, consider a screen with 1080p resolution for use with a computer. The higher resolution will let you see more content onscreen with greater clarity and finer detail than on a 720p set. (You might have to connect your computer to the TV via an HDMI input to get 1080p resolution and to avoid having outer edges of the image cut off, otherwise known as overscan.)

For somewhat lower electric bills. LCDs tend to use less power than comparably sized plasma TVs. It doesn't appear that the differences would affect your electric bills by more than a few dollars a month in many cases, so that might not be a major factor in your decision. But there is obviously an environmental advantage to using a less power-hungry TV.


http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/e...-tvs-0v2_1.htm (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/televisions/hdtv/lcd-tvs/reports/lcd-vs.-plasma-tvs/why-buy-a-plasma-tv/lcd-and-plasma-tvs-0v2_1.htm)

Greeland, would you please, stop spamming this otherwise worthy thread?

Thank you.

I don't see why anyone cares what technology takes the lead, as long as it has a good PQ. So far, plasma is the leader in PQ. When and if LCD becomes better, that's what I'll buy. If OLED gets there faster and cheaper with bigger displays, that'll be the next display in my house. I'm not a tech fan, I'm a PQ fan.

Then you must have a very expensive Fujitsu plasma because that's where plasma takes the lead only IMO. :)
Anything below that - including Pioneers - is pretty much head-to-head with a latest high-end LCD when it comes to PQ: only advantage some plasmas could have is a few percent better black but in return these new high-end LCDs are usually shaper a little bit, offer 120Hz etc so it's pretty even in terms of overall PQ.

Thanks greenland I appreciate all of the information in a nice and concise location.

T2K,
Just because you know everything about everything regarding Plasma vs. LCD does not mean that you should decide what information is posted by other members. Greenland is helping other members by posting information for all to read, don't crap on him for trying to informa people, he didn't crap on you for doing the same.

Thanks greenland I appreciate all of the information in a nice and concise location.


Well I don't - it's a topic about why more people visit the LCD forum, not about plasma vs LCD market news and marketing announcements archive.


T2K,
Just because you know everything about everything regarding Plasma vs. LCD does not mean that you should decide what information is posted by other members. Greenland is helping other members by posting information for all to read, don't crap on him for trying to informa people, he didn't crap on you for doing the same.

Just because some might think it's interesting it doesn't mean he should spam this topic.

It is off topic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic) here, pure and simple.

Thread causing too much trouble.