Exactly! :)

Well there is now a review up at ulitmate AV mag. If this link has already been posted, please excuse my ignorance.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index1.html

You're excused. :D

A long interesting review. Haven't finished it yet.

Strange re TN's observations re the DI. Contrary to everyone else who find it to be a big improvement over earlier versions.

Also, TN appears clueless re the downsides of the convergence adjustments (loss of resolution and sharpness if employed in mid pixel.

I have a way to go in the read yet. Sony is starting to fill back orders now. Of the multitude I have on order, I am getting one by mid next week. It is long gone. I am looking forward to playing with one but I have to fill orders first.

Joe, Its not the deinterlacing artifacts I am talking about. A 1080p source such as bluray is twice the resolution as a 1080i. The doubling is artificial. Having twice the resolution to begin with means a much better, detailed accurate picture regardless of how good artificial generation may be.

Mark, I apologize if I'm stumbling late into this conversation and therefore am missing the point (if that's true please forgive me), but I'm confused by your statement that a 1080p source is "twice the resolution as a 1080i."

The spirit of what you're saying is more true for video based content than for film, but not really true of either.

For film based content, there is no resolution difference between 1080i and 1080p. Film based 1080i content can be deinterlaced cleanly to 1080p with no loss of resolution (and no artificial doubling). Both are 1920x1080 with all original information maintained (assuming a modern deinterlacer).

For video based content, I agree with you in spirit. Since we have not yet entered the realm of affordable consumer MC (motion compensated) deinterlacing, the deinterlacing of 1080i video does compromise vertical resolution (but only in moving parts of the image), while maintaining horizontal resolution. So, yes, a 1080p video source is of higher resolution than a 1080i video source deinterlaced for display, but the difference isn't quite "twice" unless the whole image is in motion, in which case the eye's ability to discern detail in moving images comes into play.

Again, I'm sorry if I missed the point, Mark. I've been doing that a lot lately. I'm running on way too little sleep... Need a nap.

Well there is now a review up at ulitmate AV mag. If this link has already been posted, please excuse my ignorance.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index1.html


Thank you for the link :)
This review offers the best break down and the most technical explanation so far on how Motionflow and Film Projection modes work.
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index3.html

With film the shutter hits each frame twice. Im still a little confused what we are seeing with the Sony. I was hoping the flicker emulated film but its even faster. Anyone figure out from the description how many flashes we are seeing on the screen for 24hz material.

It was nice reading his thorough review. I also prefer the Film Projection mode 3 and using gamma off. I also have the black level set to low and am using Standard pic mode. I tried his manual iris setting at 92 with guests lastnite and they all really liked it. Of course these settings are just for movies so the Motion Enhancer is off. And of course sports I like it on with gamma 3 and in dynami pic mode. I also like the film projection mode on in 3 for sports to. Seems to help sharpen the image somewhat. Also black level gets moved to high. And of course I am doing all of this with my crystalio II and Alan's trick! ;)

Thank you for the link :)
This review offers the best break down and the most technical explanation so far on how Motionflow and Film Projection modes work.
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index3.html

With film the shutter hits each frame twice. Im still a little confused what we are seeing with the Sony. I was hoping the flicker emulated film but its even faster. Anyone figure out from the description how many flashes we are seeing on the screen for 24hz material.

I agree that nobody has spelled out what happens with 24p material. Previously I've been using this PDF link as my reference...
http://www.grobi.tv/system/galleries/download/downloads/GROBI-SONY-VPL-VW200-Motionflow-100hz.pdf
But it shows 60hz source only.
With 24p I don't know whether it doubles to 48 then adds dark frames to equal 96 (this was my previous best guess) or whether it does something else.

If anyone knows the answers please chime in.

I agree that nobody has spelled out what happens with 24p material. Previously I've been using this PDF link as my reference...
http://www.grobi.tv/system/galleries/download/downloads/GROBI-SONY-VPL-VW200-Motionflow-100hz.pdf
But it shows 60hz source only.
With 24p I don't know whether it doubles to 48 then adds dark frames to equal 96 (this was my previous best guess) or whether it does something else.

If anyone knows the answers please chime in.
I think it then doubles 96 but I am not sure.
I love the image this thing throws just trying to get some knowledge how this works. I find it fascinating.
Im starting to get addicted to the motionflow even with movies. At times it looks like 3D and can make you dizzy for a minute on slow pans with everything in perfect focus:)

I don't mind it for some movies but even then I keep it in LOW mode. Definitely HIGH for sports though! :eek:

I would like to know more about the features and what is happening inside the VW200 as well. :)

Tryingtimes, thanks for that informative link! :)

Yes thank you as well Tryingtimes.

Im posting it here for everyone to see or you can download the
PDF from Tryingtimes link:)

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_0114.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_023.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_041.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_052.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_062.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/screenshot_071.jpg

Let us know if your thoughts change on the different modes.
It looks the pdf is suggesting that you could engage Motion Enhancer and as long as you feed it 24p, it wouldn't do anything, but maybe that's not how it works in practice.

It's annoying that we can only look at these pdfs while you guys are enjoying the real thing!! :)

Ive experienced the same as Joe. Motionflow works with 24hz source for me.

I have had that document for about 3 months now but was told by Sony not to publish it or give it to customers. I did use it in my posted explanations of this stuff before. Tom Norton's explanations are much more comprehensive. I think the right advice is, try any and all of it. If you like it, use it. Do not be suaded by others even a reviewer as to what to use. There is far far too much follow the leader in this sport. Chances are you may be more right than the guy you follow. Experiment and don't be afraid to say I like it better with soimething the majority tells you not to use.

Exactly! Everything is at least worth a try. :)

It is just amazing how sharp the artificial turf was both before the plays (when they are lining up and the QB starts barking out the signals) and then after the ball was snapped. I was in film Projection Mode 3 and had Motion Enhancer on High as well. And of course since it was sports (Steelers versus Rams) I had Dynamic and Gamma 3 engaged. And the Advanced Iris was on Auto 2 or Off. I did experiment a little with Manual at 92 but did not spend as much time there. I am going to evaluate the Advanced Iris Modes this weekend and make a good decision pattern on it. So far I think I am pretty much settled on the other settings (movies and sports) the Advanced Iris is all that is left. :)

MotionFlow sounds incredible. With sports in particular on every pj I've owned there is so much blurring as the camera pans. A great example is to look at the advertisements on the boards during a hockey game as the camera follows the players up ice. I believe Greg Rogers has a standard term he uses to describe this phenomenon but can't recall what it is.

Do you guys think we will see other manufacturers implement technology similar to MotionFlow say within the next year or so? Or is this something highly proprietary to Sony that we may not see come to market for a long time by others?

Pioneer plasmas do not need it, and Samsung and and about two others also have similar.

Many like Toshiba as well are adding Motionflow 120hz to their specs. The LCDs I have seen do not look as well because they do not add Black or Dark frame Insertion.

Originally Posted by Alan Gouger
This review offers the best break down and the most technical explanation so far on how Motionflow and Film Projection modes work.
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videopr...00/index3.html

This review also says that the Advanced Iris Auto Mode isn't working as it's supposed to. In fact, the reviewer preferred the manual mode instead, because the auto iris was too often visible.

Any comments on that from the current VW200 owners?

I have not been bothered by mine. I do like the way the manual 92 Iris Mode does look though. I plan to spend a lot of time with it this weekend.

For movies I prefer the use of the Iris then without. I have not had any BC complaints but once in a while if I look for it I can see the Iris working on an extreme occasion. I sometimes use Iris 1 for darker content movies but in general Iris 2 for everything else. I think the VW100 showed a little more BC then the 200 but I found with the 100 calibration made a big difference. The Iris in the 200 to my eyes works very similar to the VW60.
The projector also looks great without it. There are so many different configurations and combinations for adjustments the projector works with anything throw at it.

Alan do you find you prefer movies with the Sony and sports on the SIM?

Joey

Tonite we watched POTC: 3 At World's End with the movie settings as posted before and this time we did the Iris in Manual at 92. The picture was incredible. Close ups were breathtaking. Of course the Masquerade Masking System helped so all around we had a great movie experience here. My neighbor said my theater is very commercial. I guess that's a compliment. :eek:

This cheerleading is getting out of hand. How about just a bit of balance?
Sony bulb life and dynamic iris:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12560836#post12560836

Cheerleading? :rolleyes: Don't bring your inept comments here. Especially since you don't own one. Especially since you did NOT see the "as good as it gets" picture lastnite like we all did! The colors were damn near perfect, the black level was very inky, the sharpness was like a razor, the contrast was unbelievable and the Film Projection Mode was the cherry on top! :eek: Plus throw in my new Masquerade System and you get the picture... Or maybe you don't since you don't own either... :D

That's all very nice Joe, but since I don't have one yet, my customers coming first (Sony is starting to ship again on Weds but the number shipping will be small no way filling existing orders), I am in the same boat as Reincarnate. I'd jump overboard but there are sharks in the water too. So I am limited to reading reviews and getting observations from those having machines already and commmenting on something I don't have..

Now to the important stuff. I didn't get to see any of those great qualities of the projector last night. But unlike Reincarnate, I am happy because I had great sex! Hope you did too. Merry Xmas.

Now to the important stuff. I didn't get to see any of those great qualities of the projector last night. But unlike Reincarnate, I am happy because I had great sex! Hope you did too. Merry Xmas.

60+ year olds talking about their humping...not something I should have read while eating my breakfast. Sheesh, I now feel sick. :( Heh

I haven't even made a comment yet on how good adult material looks on the VW200. :D
Oh wait, I just did! :)

This cheerleading is getting out of hand. How about just a bit of balance?
Sony bulb life and dynamic iris:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12560836#post12560836


I think cine4home was doing some on going measurements regarding the 200s bulb. I still do not have many hours on mine to notice any drop. Once these start shipping I expect we will hear some real world numbers over time.

All projectors including those UHP driven have their own issues. Until we get LED or Laser we all live with some lamp sacrifice. Xenon does have advantages that to me adds up to the rich image the 200 throws so in time if documented I will gladly live with any lamp loss issues that goes with it. After all my complaints about the loss with the 100 I never could part with it and enjoyed it right up to 1500 hours.

Regarding the Iris the iris in the 200 is the same as the VW60 as least the menu is identical. It is better tuned then the VW100 but both also offer further tweaking in the service menu if you know what you are doing. After some tweaking my Ruby looked great with no crush. If you read my VW100 posts I complained about BC very much until I went through the learning curve and made some adjustments. So far with the 200 I have not been disappointed with the factory settings and like the 3 different levels offered in the 200 that were lacking in the 100.
I have been in the business long enough to know and not to expect any product to be perfect but so far this has meet almost 100% of my expectations.

I haven't even made a comment yet on how good adult material looks on the VW200. :D
Oh wait, I just did! :)

This coming from a guy named joerod:eek:

I think cine4home was doing some on going measurements regarding the 200s bulb. I still do not have many hours on mine to notice any drop. Once these start shipping I expect we will hear some real world numbers over time.

All projectors including those UHP driven have their own issues. Until we get LED or Laser we all live with some lamp sacrifice. Xenon doe have advantages that to me adds up to the rich image the 200 throws so in time if documented I will gladly live with any lamp loss issues that goes with it.

Regarding the Iris the iris in the 200 is the same as the VW60 as least the menu is identical. It is better tuned then the VW100 but both also offer further tweaking in the service menu if you know what you are doing. After some tweaking my Ruby looked great with no crush. If you read my VW100 posts I complained about BC very much until I went through the learning and made some adjustments. So far with the 200 I have not been disappointed with the factory settings and like the 3 different levels offered in the 200 that were lacking in the 100.
I have been in the business long enough to know and not to expect any product to be perfect but so far this has meet almost 100% of my expectations.

So NOT a virgin talking about sex ;)

Now that is the post of the day. :)

This cheerleading is getting out of hand. How about just a bit of balance?
Sony bulb life and dynamic iris:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12560836#post12560836

Ya know, I'm really tired of people sticking their noses into threads for the single purpose of trying to troll around and rain on someone else's parade. If you don't have anything constructive to add to the discussion, just shut up.

I went to Joe's when he had the Black Pearl paired with his Silverstar and I thought the picture was really great. Joe was very happy and was close to keeping this combo for a while.

Since then hes has decided that he wanted to take his theater to another level. I'm really looking forward to seeing his new VW200 and Masquerade system.

My point is that Joe is the type of person who is always looking to better his system for his own personal enjoyment, and is happy to talk about it to help others. He has not been boastful or elitist at all and has been very generous in opening his home to me.

Instead of attacking him, why not just say "thanks" for your opinion and leave it at that. It is really just that, one guy's opinion of his personal theater. Isn't that why we are all here?

At some point Joe, I expect you to just say screw all of you. I'll just keep everything to myself and quite frankly I won't blame you at all.

Congrats on your new gear. Enjoy it for all of its abilities.

There is only one negative poster. And he is staying pretty much true to his form. Stuff like that will always be on a free to post internet forum. If it makes him feel better, then so be it. You take any post for what its worth. Never let any post bother you. Whatever someone says, I just say thank you for your opinion. Joe is too big a boy and too fine a person to let someone bother him through a misguided post.

You morons ever hear of woman on top? I liked it in my 20's and it works fine now at 62. And I may be 62, but I look like I am 50 and I think like I was 16. Now shut up and eat your breakfast, I won't tell you what I am going to eat late tonight. :)

Thanks Casey and Mark for your kind words. :)

I won't let a drop of rain land on my parade. I am enjoying my theater to much for that. I know a damn good picture when I see one. I may have to wrestle my Wife for theater time though. :D

And whenever you like Casey just give me a heads up and you are more than welcome to see the VW200/Masquerade combo. I would really like your opinion now since you just recently viewed my VW60/SS set up. See you soon. :)

Joerod's posts often bring a smile to my face.

He always has something POSITIVE to contribute... some might criticise this, but look at it this way - if someone has 10 things to say and 2 points are negative, Joe will only say the 8 worthwhile points.

He doesn't attack anyone (unless they bite first).

Don't stop being Joe, Joe. :)

Back on topic: Whilst I personally can't see that much between a well calibrated 200 and a well calibrated 100, (what a testament to both!) the 200 is still an absolute amazing machine. I truly can't see why the iris would bother you, I barely notice it. Lamp life? There are ways to get cheaper lamps :) Colour rendering is worth the lower hours although I must admit that i'm looking forward to an alternative light source. Maybe the newer high intensity LEDs and lasers will impact on the market soon ;)

And Mark.. damn you, now I'm hungry

Melbourne has a lot of very fine dishes to sample.

Good post Oliverg! :) I will mention 2 negatives about the VW200. The first is there still is not direct input selection on the remote. The second is it weighs 44 pounds! :eek:

See, I did it! :)

You morons ever hear of woman on top? I liked it in my 20's and it works fine now at 62. And I may be 62, but I look like I am 50 and I think like I was 16. Now shut up and eat your breakfast, I won't tell you what I am going to eat late tonight. :)

:D

Now to the important stuff. I didn't get to see any of those great qualities of the projector last night. But unlike Reincarnate, I am happy because I had great sex! Hope you did too. Merry Xmas.

More information than we needed, Mark. :rolleyes: But maybe Reincarnate had BOTH for all we know !

With my Wife's family getting in today I am looking forward to seeing their reactions to the VW200 and Masquerade System. For the kids we are planning Ratatouille Blu ray, A Christmas Story and Polar Express HD DVD. The adults it will be up to them. Should be a fun couple of days here. :)

hey joe, you need any more family? :)

enjoy the holiday!!

later.

The more the merrier. :)

AVS members are always welcome. :)

Joe

The "Masquerade" system is sweet. My fingers are crossed we see a constant height 235:1 version from Carada. Ill be all over it.

My thoughts exactly for my next theater... :)

I would say it does blow away the VW60 in some categories. The contrast is better. The sharpnesss with MOTIONFLOW on is very impressive which makes it stand out much more than the Black Pearl. The panel alignment with ZONE adjusting allows you to get spot on convergence. Some categories are closer but don't fool yourself. There is a reason this PJ has a msrp of $14,999.00. Mark H. was right when he mentioned its all in the lens. ;) I am seeing a better image without hardly doing any tweaking so far. Once I get to "work" I will be blown away. This PJ has the potential to look like the cross between a digital and a CRT PJ... Trust me... :)

I originally discounted this projector because the demonstration I saw at Cedia was less than impressive. Now that could be for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of the projector and more to do with how well you got a new projector assembled for one show but I was extremely impressed with the motionflow correction

I am even more impressed with the piecewise color distortion correction because, in answering an optical question on another forum I realized that in order to get less than 1 pixel color distortion across the field you had to correct the lateral color to less than .1 percent 1 part in 1000 and be able to manufacturer a lens, which in production would have that kind of performance, would be extremely hard and prohibitively expensive. Do you have a 300,000 dollar plus forum? Now lateral color distortion ,IE where a color will land on the screen at a different place, from where it is supposed to land can be corrected to one pixel by adjusting the delay between color images. Optically even if you perfectly align panels the lens itself will shift the colors and that shift will vary from sector to sector. This comes from the fact that each lens has a certain amount of wedge , which means it is two curved surfaces for a singlet plus a very thin prism and these wedge errors come about because of manufacturing tolerances which for all practical purposes can not be avoided,

So the electronic convergence adjust is the best way to solve this problem given the fact that you can't practically make a lens with zero color distortion or what most people refer to as lateral color distortion. This distortion will vary from lens to lens so that each system . for optimum performance must be individually calibrated

Since the VW200 is the only system which can adjust color distortion by sectors it has the potential of being the sharpest projector currently manufactured.

In the last 2 years we have seen some remarkable innovations which have produced a quantum leap in projector performance , the brilliant color technology, the Osram and Vidi pulsed lamp technology doubled brightness on single chip dlp projectors while improving contrast and last year when JVC introduce the wiregrid polarizers in their system to increase contrast on Lcos from 1000:1 to 15,000 to one, but the electronic color convergent adjustment from Sony, may be the most significant, because it solves a problem electronically, which is almost impossible to solve any other way.

I have to take another look at this projector.

Oh I forgot to add, as much as I love the Unishape technology . You still can not beat for quality a Xenon Lamp source for producing pure perfect colors. I still think the Sony Ruby produced the best colors I have ever seen produced from a digital projector.

Xenon lamps produce perfect colors, look up the spectral output and you will see why, and have the smallest arc of any white light source and are a perfect pain in the ass.

Xenon lamps produce perfect colors, look up the spectral output and you will see why, and have the smallest arc of any white light source and are a perfect pain in the ass.

Care to elaborate???:cool:

And now on the VW200 the colors are :eek:...

Care to elaborate???:cool:

the Xenon lamp has a color temperature in the case of the Perkin Elmer ceramic lamps of 5900 kelvin which is close to the color temperature of daylight and the UHP lamps have a color temperature of 8000. The Xenon lamp output is almost flat from 400to 700nm and the UHP lamp is spikey and has almost no output past 590nm. very weak red output although the efficacy llumens/watt is much better than the Xenon lamp.

the ceramic xenon arc lamps with the spectral outputs are described here:

http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/RelatedLinks/SpecificationSheets/SPC_VideoProjection.pdf

and the UHP lamps invented by Philips with their spectral output are described here:

http://www.icpig.uni-greifswald.de/proceedings/data/Pekarski_1

Cine4home has a color picture of the output they took with a spectrophotometer of the output of the Jvc RS1 which uses a UHP lamp iinvented by Philips and the vw-200 which uses a 400 watt Perkin Elmer lamp

http://www.cine4home.com/

Now I am going to say something that will drive this forum a little crazy. When you look at the Perkin Elmer Xenon lamp specs you will see that the 425 watt lamp is plug compatible , same exact size, same spot size, same focus distance as the 850 watt Perkin Elmer lamp. Replacing the 425 with the 850 would double the lumen output to 1600 lumens. Optically except for lumen output, the two lamps are exactly the same.

II just figure the Japanese engineers being Japanese figured why would anyone need a projector that putout more than 800 lumens in a home theater.

I am sure the power supply in the 200 would light that 800 watter but I would worry about the additional heat. I wish someone would design a projector with no bulb allowing us to put a xenon lamp house of choice and wattage to its back end.

Joe:

Would you be willing to post a quick rundown of your current settings - so I can use them as my starting point.

Most appreciative.

Simon

I am sure the power supply in the 200 would light that 800 watter but I would worry about the additional heat.I wouldn't be too sure of that. Recall that many VW100 owners (including myself) had lamp power supplies that blew in under 100 hours. Sony has undoubtedly improved the power supply — and my warranty replacement power supply, probably a later "rev level", has been solid for 500 hours now.

The VW200 uses the same lamp as the VW100, has the same chassis, and likely sports an even newer "rev" of the same lamp power supply. I'm sure it's pretty reliable — but you would be asking it to handle double the designed power level!

I'd be happy if the VW100/200 would take the 550 watt lamp.
Alan, Do ou know of anyone that has tried a higher wattage lamp?

I will update them after this weekend. My last post is pretty much the same as where I have it set though. Quick MOVIE rundown, Standard pic setting, Film Projection Mode 3, Black level Low, Motion enhancer Off, Gamma OFF, Color MIDDLE, Iris Setting Manual 92 ( I am still playing between that and AUTO 2 but have to admit I am leaning towards the Manual 92) and all picture settings are left where they are at. Depending on the movie Color can be in Normal or Wide. My family prefers Wide for everything! :D

Quick SPORTS rundown, Dynamic setting, Film Projection Mode 3 (or off still playing between them but leaning towards 3 because it seems to sharpen and boost contrast) Motion Enhancer FULL, Gamma 3, black level high, Iris either OFF or Manual 92 (still tweaking but leaning towards the Manual 92 again) Color Middle, and all picture settings left where they were at. Color is also in WIDE.

Hope these help. Of course you screen and environment may need to be tweaked a little different but these settings should be a good foundation to start with. I also use a crystalio II but leave that mostly alone. I do use a cool trick Alan sent me. I have its gamma on HIGH and adjusted a few points higher. It does give ansi a nice boost while keeping blacks deep and inky.

I am sure the power supply in the 200 would light that 800 watter but I would worry about the additional heat. I wish someone would design a projector with no bulb allowing us to put a xenon lamp house of choice and wattage to its back end.

the case is really large so it may handle the heat but the current is controlled by a servo so the sensing resistor would have to be changed. the Sony engineers could have doubled the output easily with no increase in cost.

I just read a rather mediocre review of the 200 in Av science where he said it was barely better than the RS1. I really like the RS1 but I am skeptical about his conclusions. The 200 has , according to this reviewer uses the new wiregrid polarizers as did the RS1. This should dramatically increase the instantaneous contrast ratio over the 100 which just used polarization beamsplitters.

The reviewer also said the colors of the JVC and the VW-200 were close with the 200. I thought the Ruby handled color better than any digital projector I had ever seen and projected colors that were both more natural and much richer than any projector I had ever seen. Much better than the JVC a projector I really like. You can filter a UHP lamp to give it a color temperature of 6500 kelvin but the filters are not going to output deep red if it doesn't exist in the output to begin with.

The reviewer did not perform any zonal color convergence adjustments which to my mind would be the only way to get the maximum performance out of this projector. You find some anal calibrator and have him adjust the convergence zone by zone until all zones were as perfect as he could get them and see if what effect it had on the image sharpness.

I was wondering if you did that and what effect if any it had on the image?

If I bought that projector I would be tempted to replace the lamp and adjust the monitoring resistor. double the output double the fun.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Recall that many VW100 owners (including myself) had lamp power supplies that blew in under 100 hours. Sony has undoubtedly improved the power supply — and my warranty replacement power supply, probably a later "rev level", has been solid for 500 hours now.

The VW200 uses the same lamp as the VW100, has the same chassis, and likely sports an even newer "rev" of the same lamp power supply. I'm sure it's pretty reliable — but you would be asking it to handle double the designed power level!

You would be going from dc 26 amps to 43 amps and and from 420 watts to 825 watts but I have to correct myself you would not be doubling the lumen output , you would more than triple it going from 7800 lumens to 25,000 lumens , you would go from 800 lumen projector output to 2564 lumen output.

Your power supply was probably blown because they did not shield the power transistors form the 35 -60kv igniter pulse which is the same for both lamps.

I am sure the power supply in the 200 would light that 800 watter but I would worry about the additional heat. I wish someone would design a projector with no bulb allowing us to put a xenon lamp house of choice and wattage to its back end.

I was mistaken switching lamps from the 420 Watt power lamp to the 825 power lamp dose not double the lumen output power it more than triples it

800 lumens to 2600 lumens

triple the power triple the fun

How about using the 550 watt lamp, adjusting the supply voltage to the minimum operating voltage of 15 volts which would only increase the lamp current by 7 amps over the stock lamp. That would increase the projector output from 800 to about 1200 lumens. I would be very happy with that.

How about using the 550 watt lamp, adjusting the supply voltage to the minimum operating voltage of 15 volts which would only increase the lamp current by 7 amps over the stock lamp. That would increase the projector output from 800 to about 1200 lumens. I would be very happy with that.

Bobcat

that would be your best choice anyway because I just checked the lamp specifications and the plasma spot size goes from 1.7 to 2.5 when you go to the 825 watt lamps and the optical invariant has to remain constant in the system this means that you would have to take the ratio of the radius of the of 1.7 by 2.5 squared and then multiply that by 25,000 lumens and to get the actual effective lumen increase in that projector and guess what it 11,650 lumens.

[I]f you go with the 550 you get an increase of lamp output of 11,700 because it has the same spot size 1,7mm as the 420 watt lamp ,you do not lose any light.

Dam

If you use a higher wattage bulb, you will probnably damage the machine and void your warranty. A few extra watts, but adding 150 or so without making any change to thermal efficiency, I think you'd wreck the machine particulary if the power failed. And going to an 800 watt bulb? Gd luck.

Reading the Norton review. That man uses a 1.78 78 wide screen at 1.3 gain. At manual iris 92, he got 17.5 ft lamberts on his screen. Say someone has a bigger screen like a 1.78 96 in wide 1.3 screen. One would be increasing the area of the screen by about 50% . Blacks would improve to the same extent brightness decreased. Ft lamberts would drop to about 11.5. One would need to open the iris up to get back the lost ft lamberts. Blacks would be better on the larger screen with manual iris at 100 rather than on a smaller screen with the iris stopped down to 93 A review based on a 78 wide screen vs a 96" wide is probably goung to be quite better. Contrast, brightness, manual iris settings from the 78 are not even worth trying on the 96.

Bobcat,

If you go with the 550 watt bulb ,the current is servo controlled so you will not get any more current from the existing power supply unless you also change the monitor resistor even if you change the bulb and although I do not agree with Mark that you will probably damage the machine you will void your warranty and I do not recommend it.

It would be interesting to talk to Sony and see what their engineers say. I do not understand why they chose the 420 lamp over the 550

11.5 ftlamberts is to low a value to start with because in a couple of 100 hours your output will be below 10 ftlamberts and probably close to 9.


The projector weighs 44lbs and consumes 610 watts of power The lamp change will increase the power consumption by only 20 percent so I don't think that change will cause the system to overheat. I have designed xenon lamp systems when they were made of Quartz and believe me we put more than 20 percent headroom into the system , more like 200 percent because Xenon lamps are under extremely high pressure and having them explode made a real mess. The Perkin Elmer lamps are much smaller and made of Ceramic
Furthermore, The projector is cooled by a fan and that fan is controlled by a temperature sensor which controls the output of the fan. It probably has 2 speeds. If the fan fails because and the temperature exceeds a set maximum than it will just shut the system down and it will do the same if for some strange reason Sony engineers only designed the system with a thermal headroom of only 10 percent which is extremely improbable.

mlang46
Do you think if I replaced the 420 watt lamp with the 550 watt in my VW100 without making any changes, I would have a longer lasting lamp? Would the lamp maintain a higher average output over it's life at the 420 watt rate?

This review also says that the Advanced Iris Auto Mode isn't working as it's supposed to. In fact, the reviewer preferred the manual mode instead, because the auto iris was too often visible.

Any comments on that from the current VW200 owners?

I have the vpl-vw100 and I hate my auto iris for the exact same reason listed in the review, makes everything dimmer when engaged. I'm thinking of going the jvc rs2 for my next projector. But I really do love the color on my vpl-100, it still looks amazing to me. I'm also using the same vutek 120" screen.

I have the vpl-vw100 and I hate my auto iris for the exact same reason listed in the review, makes everything dimmer when engaged. I'm thinking of going the jvc rs2 for my next projector. But I really do love the color on my vpl-100, it still looks amazing to me. I'm also using the same vutek 120" screen.

My rear projection CRT does the same thing with auto iris, makes everything dimmer. I thought it was just that it was older (~2000) technology, but I guess they all do that? I quickly turned it off and never looked back until recently while researching the different projectors and I wanted to remember what an auto iris did.

I'm looking at an RS2 for the same reason because the differing levels of black bother me when it changes from scene to scene so obviously. I would rather be in control of the black level until such a time as we have a projector that just has such good contrast ratio at all brightness levels that the auto iris can calibrate a great picture for every source.

My rear projection CRT does the same thing with auto iris, makes everything dimmer.

Did you mean rear projection DLP or Lcos ? ;)

CRT would not require an iris.

Hm, then it might be something different than the iris you guys are talking about. In the picture menu it says "IRIS" and I can turn it on or off. The TV is definitely not a DLP or LCOS, it was one of the old huge rear projections (Mitsubishi 65869 or something) which I think were CRT based but maybe is something else?

Oh yeah, something different... :)

Joe I saw your pictures of your new masking system in another thread. It really does make a difference. It adds so much more contrast. Looks like you are all set now for a while. Thats where I want to be but I am still messing with other things in my system. Does it ever end:)

Does it ever end:)

Hopefully not!

I do plan to freeze it for awhile. The only new unit I plan to look at for the first half of 08 is the new Denon Blu ray player. Other than that I am taking a leave of absense... :)

mlang46
Do you think if I replaced the 420 watt lamp with the 550 watt in my VW100 without making any changes, I would have a longer lasting lamp? Would the lamp maintain a higher average output over it's life at the 420 watt rate?

I don't know but the person to get that information is listed on the website. You want to talk to an applications engineer who may also tell you how to boost the power and what risks there may be if any. He may also give you the servo circuit they use to control the lamp current and tell you how to increase the current by 7 amps.

Sounds like a cool science project. :)

So now I have been told the VW200 is supposed to be called the Sapphire. :eek:

Joe: I have been wondering about this for awhile. Did you purchase the VW200 to anticipate 3d display technology? I know you have the Silverstar which I believe is the type of screen needed.

So now I have been told the VW200 is supposed to be called the Sapphire. :eek:

Right Joe - the Diamond which is not available yet is a 4K PJ.

Hi drhankz,
Do you have any details on the diamond?

Joe: I have been wondering about this for awhile. Did you purchase the VW200 to anticipate 3d display technology? I know you have the Silverstar which I believe is the type of screen needed.

BTW, that's just not right.:eek:

I was told the Diamond was the 4k as well. I am hearing it will be in the 40k+ range but things change, its still to early in its release to know exactly but this at least ball parks it so you know what to expect. This will be the true Qualia replacement.

Hi drhankz,
Do you have any details on the diamond?

SORRY - Sony must have run into some problems.

It is overdue. Maybe in 2008 CEDIA.

I purchased the VW200 for a few reasons. Mainly to keep me from getting a new PJ for at least 2 or 3 years! ;)

I purchased the VW200 for a few reasons. Mainly to keep me from getting a new PJ for at least 2 or 3 years! ;)
Do you honestly believe you'll be able to stop yourself from grabbing one of those brand new laser based projectors early 2009? :p

Yes. I can wait until 2010. The VW200 is that good... ;)

We'll talk again when the first good laser projector hits the market with (hopefully) hand puppet eating true blacks... :D But you may have luck in that such a projector might not appear before 2010!

I would bet it would be at least 2010 before we see a really high end one to hit... Until then I am in VW200 bliss... ;)

Hi Guys. The VW200 has just been released here down under in Australia. Mine is to be delivered next week.
I've plowed through all the posts here with interest. The Sony will displace a Barco 808s (fed from a DVDO HD+ but the Sony will get video from a DVDO VP50 Pro).

John

After you get it set up let us know what you think. :)

i was at a local HT dealer and these things were going out the door left and right. i was there 30 minutes and two went out with customers and one set by the front waiting for pickup.

tis the season i guess! :)

later.

So there is interest in the VW200? :eek: :D

Just got my VW 200 - YES!

If there is any remaining doubt ... the lens on this PJ is clearly different than the one on the VW100 (physically looks different)!

Simon

Now hurry up and let us know what you think of the picture Q! :)

Now hurry up and let us know what you think of the picture Q! :)

I second Joes excitement. Its been a lonely club but satisfying. Glad to see some new members :) Keep us posted.
Just in time for new years!

My VERY early impressions, without spending much time with the menus:

1. Sharpness is significantly improved over my prior VW100 - this is quite noticable at the borders/corners, which I assume is a result of the better lens.
2. I see better panel conversion and less of a 'bright coners' problem than I had leaned to live with on the VW100 (although I suppose this is likely to be variable from PJ to PJ as it was with the VW100).
3. Colors seem improved, with greater range and natural-ness.
4. However, VW200 does seem a bit less bright than the VW100.

Caveat here is that I am also using a new scaler that I only had a very brief experience with on my VW100 (unfortunately the scaler does not yet have 1080p24 output enaqbled) so is hard to know where to ascribe differences.

Will watch 'Cars' with my kids this afternoon to get the initial measure of this PJ (also to see how it does with my add-on anamorphic lens), and then spend a chunk of time tonight playing around with it. Will share further thoughs then.

Joe/Alan - did either of you do anything beyond menu-fiddling to adjust the brightness?

Appreciate all the insights!

Simon

Simon for max brightness make sure the iris set to off and turn off film mode.
"Dynamic" offers the brightest output but again you will want to turn off the features I mentioned. After spending time with the 200 I cannot say I notice a difference between the 100 and 200 in light output but my 100 has a new bulb and I opened up the iris so if your 100 has stock settings then you can better judge the difference then myself.
It will take some time with this machine before you settle into a setting you prefer. All the different features make this very flexible.
By the way how if your convergence. Mine was dead on out of the box but I still messed with the convergence just to familiar myself with it.

Alan:

Just finished watching Cars and my initial assessment of this PJ being less bright than my recently sold VW100 was not correct - the 200 is actually subjectively brighter, which would make sense given the new bulb.

Convergence is spot on, much better than on my VW100, which makes me happy as I cannot imagine (based on reading how it works) that the electronic panel convergence feature would not soften the picture somewhat.

Was fooling around with the menus during the movie (to the extreme annoyance of my 5 yr old) and have initially conlcuded that I do not like motionflow on high - at least not for movies! Used black-frame insertion mode 2 which seemed to work quite nicely.

I have to say that I am hugely impressed with this projector, and while I am trying to avoid falling victim to 'new toy is perfect' syndrome, I find it to be a big step up from my VW100.

Works very nicely with my Pamamorph lens BTW.

Simon

Someday my VPL-vw200 will come but my dealer keeps bumping me down the list in favor of paying customers.

Here is my attempt to capture the black level and dynamic contrast of this projector with my Canon to show how good dark movies look on this projector.
Here is a screen capture from the movie "Cool World"
This is a 16x9 movie centered on a 235:1 screen with no masking. You can barley notice the difference in black level in the movie to the unused portion of the screen making up the pillar bars left/right.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c387/itsmeto/screenshot_01.jpg

Someday my VPL-vw200 will come but my dealer keeps bumping me down the list in favor of paying customers.

Those rotton dealers :D

In case you hadn't guessed, PJ works great!

Are you getting the same d65 CR numbers you posted earlier for the pre/prod machine (6,000:1/8,500:1/40,000:1)?


Unfortunately not, more the values Alans machine has (30,000:1 max). Our test machine reached now 160h, I will measure actual light output by next week. Our VW200 lost ALOT of light already unfortunately.

Regards,
Ekkehart

@Cine4Home

Hi Ekkehart,
on your homepage you said something about an upcoming review of the VW200, do you have a small preview of this review for us? Or maybe some release date of this review?
:)

Oh, and you were measuring the temperature inside of this PJ - any conclusions yet?

Cheers,
Sandel

Joe/Alan:

Do you find motionflow set to high makes a big difference while watching sports? I noted its effect with movies (and decided 'low' was preferred) but did not see much difference with video (footaall via my cablebbox) which makes me think I set it up wrong.

Simon

Some sports more than others. Basketball is more noticable. Football is when they show close ups and instant replays. Also, you should be able to tell the action is much more fluid without motion blur. Sharpness remains intact. I prefer Dynamic with black level high, gamma 3, film projection mode 3, and motion enhancer HIGH for sports. Also color space Wide... Those settings provide pure eye candy during the games...

@Cine4Home

Hi Ekkehart,
on your homepage you said something about an upcoming review of the VW200, do you have a small preview of this review for us? Or maybe some release date of this review?
:)

Oh, and you were measuring the temperature inside of this PJ - any conclusions yet?

Cheers,
Sandel



Most likely, our review will come this month (january). If you have any questions in advance, just let me know.

Regards,
Ekkehart

@Cine4Home

If you have any questions in advance, just let me know.

That's good to know!

Actually I was thinking about the VW200 as an upgrade for my JVC HD1/RS1 (regarding noise level, manual vs. electrical focus/lens adjustment, colour, etc.).
And I remember that you did a pretty detailed review on the RS1 as well, so you probably know what you are talking about :)

I just need a little help in decision making: Is it worth the extra buck or will I miss my RS1 very soon after upgrading for reasons I still don't know?

Cheers,
Sandel

We watched Waist Deep and The Heartbreak Kid both HD DVDs last night and we were both very impressed with the picture Q. I am beginning to sound like a broken record but I have to admit the black levels were excellent as were the exceptional colors. The Heartbreak Kid has some very nice scenery. One particular scene pans around the resort at night showing the oceanside pool with blue lighting. It looked terrific. The VW200 really stands out with night scenes. Same for the night scenes in Waist Deep. I have never had this good of black level with all the detail and color...

@Cine4Home

That's good to know!

Actually I was thinking about the VW200 as an upgrade for my JVC HD1/RS1 (regarding noise level, manual vs. electrical focus/lens adjustment, colour, etc.).
And I remember that you did a pretty detailed review on the RS1 as well, so you probably know what you are talking about :)

I just need a little help in decision making: Is it worth the extra buck or will I miss my RS1 very soon after upgrading for reasons I still don't know?

Cheers,
Sandel


It depends on your priorities. When new, the VW200 looks as bright as a JVC and is definately a bit sharper, especially in motion.

After 100 hours however the VW200 ist clearly darker. In dark, low contrast scenes (sunrise for example) it loses quite obviously against a JVC because it is lacking native contrast + brightness.

So if you are really into sharpness, the VW200 is a good choice. If you prefer brightness and top notch shadow detail, the JVC is the way to go, especially the HD100, as it has a good gamma management.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Of course I am using my VW200 with a crystalio II but I have to say my amount of shadow detail is astounding and I am at the 150 hour mark on my PJ. And I so far (knock on wood) I have not had the dramatic dim stage set in like I did on the VW100.

Of course I am using my VW200 with a crystalio II but I have to say my amount of shadow detail is astounding and I am at the 150 hour mark on my PJ. And I so far (knock on wood) I have not had the dramatic dim stage set in like I did on the VW100.


I am not saying that the VW200 is bad in shadow detail, but in certain scenes, where the AI of the VW200 closes, the HD100 is far, far ahead...
Then again, the VW200 is a bit sharper and has better color-controls.
About brightness loss, have you measured the actual Lumen output?

Regards,
Ekkehart

I am using the Manual setting at 92 as was suggestd by another reviewer with great results. Also the contrast is at 92...

He's on a projector honey moon. He's projector whipped. Its bright, BLACK, and perfect. There may be something brighter and with better blacks, but hey what I have, that's it. Its perfection in my eyes.

Don't try to rationalize or point out flaws, HE"S WHIPPED! :)


Happy New Year Joe. Keep enjoying it. I'll have one to play with later this week. Sony says my next shipment will be here on Weds.

It's been one long honeymoon so far! :eek: Happy New Year to you as well Mark. :)

Oh and Happy New Year to everyone else to! :)

I am using the Manual setting at 92 as was suggestd by another reviewer with great results. Also the contrast is at 92...
__________________

Is that 92 out of a 100.....not much headroom and that bothers me.

Joey

A happy new year to everybody!

If you prefer brightness and top notch shadow detail, the JVC is the way to go, especially the HD100, as it has a good gamma management.

@Cine4Home
How is the HD100 compared with the HD1 regarding noise level? Would you say it is as quiet as the VW200?

@all those lucky VW200 owners
How about brightness loss? What is your experience so far?


Cheers,
Sandel

Don't knock 92 out of 100 until you have seen it. :) The Black levels stay consistent and the picture Q is amazing. There were so many jaw-dropping scenes in The Heartbreak Kid. Beautiful day scenes of the resort and then perfectly detailed night scenes. At that point you realize it is at the "set it and forget it" point. ;)

OK. I don't get what relevance some reviewer's settings are to anyone except perhaps if that someone had the same screen and screen size. the reviewer had a tiny screen and I think had to engage the fixed iris to get blacks that were acceptable to him given his distaste and non use of the DI. Giving any validity to I'll try that on my much bigger screen is nonsense.

Mark it may sound crazy, but I did a good A/B/C comparison with a few people over (twice now with different folks) and they all said they liked the Manual 92 setting. I have to admit it does look great for movies. For sports I change it but for the most part... Try it when you get your VW200 installed... :)

A happy new year to everybody!


@Cine4Home
How is the HD100 compared with the HD1 regarding noise level? Would you say it is as quiet as the VW200?

@all those lucky VW200 owners
How about brightness loss? What is your experience so far?


Cheers,
Sandel



HD100 is not really quieter than the HD1. I would say the VW200 is more quiet.

Light loss with our VW200-machine is already over 30%.

Regards,
Ekkehart

And how may hours are you at? 30% seems drastic like the VW100...

The loss in the VW200 if like the 100 will level off and settle. It would be nice if it stabilized sooner but UHP continues through its lifetime with color shifts so there is no perfect bulb. Pick your poison.

And then there is always your "light cannon" trick. :)

And then there is always your "light cannon" trick.

What might that be? :confused:

Look in the archives (search) under the Ruby and you will find it. :)

Look in the archives (search) under the Ruby and you will find it. :)

I think the info has been deleted - JOE

Warning: Proceed at your own risk (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655111&highlight=ruby).

Do not take for granted changes made in the service menu for the VW200 work the same as related in the VW100.
Disclaimer:
Anyone attempting to make any changes in the service menu do so at your own risk.

Hi Alan,
Ok, Disclaimer noted!
Have you looked in the service menu of the VW200 for the setting location? If you don't want to post it, could you PM me? The "light cannon" setting on the VW100 made all of the difference in brightness on my 133" 1.3 gain screen. I have 481hrs on my VW100, and the light output seems very stable with a very bright picture and good color saturation.
Thanks
Al

I will check on it and report back to you to. I will say so far at 150 plus hours I do not need it though.

I have only looked into it briefly. The settings are there but they appear to work different.
For the quick testing I did it seamed the changes worked in reverse to the WV100. Going higher with the numbers in the VW200 increased the brightness. Increasing the numbers for the VW100 decreased brightness. I did not spend enough time to confirm but be very careful to anyone wondering into the service menu. Write down all settings before making any changes and do not choose
the "save setting" option. When you cycle down the projector let it go through the entire shut down procedure before rebooting, the projector will revert back to factory settings as long as the "Save" option was not chosen. If you reboot before it completes its shut down ( The xenon lamp is hot strike ) the projector will save any changes made in the service menu.

I don't plan to change anything just get a look see. :) Good catch though on the reverse effect of the number changes 100 versus 200.

Purchased my VW50 literally weeks before the VW60 and VW200 were announced ... waited 3 months for my screen and now have just over 100 hours on my VW50.

Very tempted to sell the VW50 for a song and step up to the VW200 ... damn you Alan :D

Warning: Proceed at your own risk (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=655111&highlight=ruby).


@Cine4Home
Wouldn't that be something of your taste?
You are good at tweaking PJs so maybe you should try this one too?
:)

@Cine4Home
Wouldn't that be something of your taste?
You are good at tweaking PJs so maybe you should try this one too?
:)



If I remember right this was a tweak to "open" the iris in low brightness scenes while keeping the adaptive Gamma active. Has not much to do with accurate filmreproduction but makes mid-scnes look "punchy". You lose AI-contrast and get a worse black level in dark scenes though.


The Sanyo Z2000 uses the same technique (called "dynamic gamma")

Regards,
Ekkehart

Ekkehart do you happen to know what frequency the flicker is we are seeing when using Film Mode fed by 24hz. Is it 48hz?
Thank you!

Happy new years :)


Mark I removed your C3X post, to off topic. Plop it in one of the many C3X threads. Thanks Mark.

Hey guys - I have been reading posts in these forums for many years. So finally I thought it was time to add a little something from my side. It seems that there are not that many posts on the VPL-VW200 yet.

I got mine a week before x-mas. It replaces the Ruby that I had used for approx. 600 hrs (still first bulb). I was very curious if it could be much better than the Ruby. No doubt - it definetely is.

Brightness is very good, Black levels fantastic. Sharpness and details are truly amazing. The convergence adjusting is a really great feature that I would not want to miss. Too bad that Sony does not allow an external testsignal to be used.

I have not had time yet to colour adjust it professionally with color facts. This will be next. However just by playing around with it I am very happy.

What I don't like too much is the auto iris. It seems they did change it for the worse. The reaction is different then with the Ruby. Also I do not see any need for the motionflow it makes the picture look strange -but then again - I do not watch sport channels and I could see a use for it there. Also I am not yet sure if any of the film projections modes will grow on me or not. Until now I always tend to turn them off during a movie.

All in all a great projector. I can only recommend it!

Rémy

Try the Manual setting for the IRIS at 92. You will like that. ;) Also, set the film projection mode to 3 (the lightest) it helps with fast moving scenes as far as clarity goes and contrast. Trust me. :)

Regarding my question on the frequency of the flicker when using Filmmode, thinking about it I watched a crt yesterday feeding it 1080i 60, 60hz flicker was barely visible and only via Peripheral vision at that. Anyone with a CRT monitor or projector prefer flicker free 72hz. I am confident the flicker we are seeing when feeding the projector 1080p 24 is 48hz based or very close to what you would see in the movie theater. Which is what I was hoping.
If this flicker were higher then 60hz or even 60hz I do not think we would see it.
Any thoughts, based on common sense thinking?

Regarding my question on the frequency of the flicker when using Filmmode, thinking about it I watched a crt yesterday feeding it 1080i 60, 60hz flicker was barely visible and only via Peripheral vision at that. Anyone with a CRT monitor or projector prefer flicker free 72hz. I am confident the flicker we are seeing when feeding the projector 1080p 24 is 48hz based or very close to what you would see in the movie theater. Which is what I was hoping.
If this flicker were higher then 60hz or even 60hz I do not think we would see it.
Any thoughts, based on common sense thinking?



In your theory you forget the fast response time of the SXRD panels. I checked 50Hz (PAL) yesterday on the VW200, so the frequency was definately 50Hz in BFI and the VW200 flickering was much worse than what we are used from a conventional 50Hz CRT. So this is not really comparable.

Regards,
Ekkehart

Hi Ekkehart

What do you think it is taking a guess. I do not think we can see anything faster then 60. I was thinking about the high refresh rate of the panels but that would make it impossible to see any flicker. I do no think it is lower then 48 in fact I do think it is higher from watching film but I do not think it is very much higher. I hope over time we will know this.
Thanks!

I am now at 182 hours on my VW200! :eek: Picture is still as good as when I first turned it on... :)

Joe you have 10 hours on me. I put a few hours on her each day. Still throws a great picture:)

So lessee, Alan G. has 172 hours on his. There is such interesting info on this thread but one has to do a little digging. Together they have 354 hours or an average of 177 hours each. :) Be sure to update us tomorrow, and I'll update the VPL-vw200 league statistics, I am delivering a C3x1080 that I have been testing the last two days early tomorrow morning. In 2 days I put 14 hours on it. I suspect my VPL-vw200 will show up tomorrow to replace it.

So you will finally have your own? :)

Joe/Alan,

I'm leaning strongly toward replacing my VW100 with a VW200. Given the price difference, the incremental performance is probably not "cost effective" — but I'm an engineer, not a bean counter, so when has that ever stopped me! (My lust for acquiring the newest and best electronics must be rooted deeply in the "reptilian" part of my brain.)

So ... help me out here. Assume that I personally can't "see" the "micro-judder" difference between true 24 fps and 60p (via 2/3 pulldown). What will be most noticeable if I replace my VW100 with a VW200? Brightness? Contrast? Color? All three?

For reference, I have a 135" diagonal motorized 16:9 Stewart screen (UltraMatte 200, 2.0 gain). Why I chose that size and material would be the subject of a long, off-topic discussion. Suffice it to say that it delivers excellent results with my VW100.

(One of the VW200 features that I "covet" is the electronic color convergence. Since I have a high ceiling, I necessarily use a rather large vertical offset. Even the best "color corrected" lens will show some divergence when projecting at a significant offset from the lens's central axis. With my VW100, test patterns display about a two-pixel vertical color divergence, zero horizontal divergence. This is not noticeable in normal viewing, but I still would like to "fix it"!)

Hi Ekkehart

What do you think it is taking a guess. I do not think we can see anything faster then 60. I was thinking about the high refresh rate of the panels but that would make it impossible to see any flicker. I do no think it is lower then 48 in fact I do think it is higher from watching film but I do not think it is very much higher. I hope over time we will know this.
Thanks!

A couple of questions about DFI
With normal crt flicker you are seeing larger gaps because of the drawing of the scanlines. You never actually see a full frame image. You are right in that 60Hz gives flicker, but 72/75 is largely considered flicker-free.
But I'm not sure this is comparable to a device which shows full frames with black intervals.

So my question - in a cinema you are seeing frame-black-frame-black and the frequency of the frames is 48ps but is the black visible for the same amount of time as a frame? i.e. the frequency must still be 48 black fps, but maybe they're not equal to the amount of time you can see a picture.
At the moment - I'm trusting Sony to have done their homework and doing their best to replicate the film projector, but the fact that you keep questioning it makes me wonder whether you're not totally convinced.

I think he is convinced. I sure am. We just want to know how they pull it off. :)

The VW200 is definitely sharper than the VW100. It does have nicer contrast as well. Then when you implement the film projection mode it takes it to the next level. As far as brightness goes I would have to say they are pretty close. I am still very happy with mine and how much it lights up my screen. I am now at 187 hours... And counting...And still do not need the light cannon trick. :D The colors are exceptional (as reported by reviewers) and of course the panel aligniment for convergence adjusting is also a huge plus. I also really like the remote. So much that I refuse to use any of my Universal ones. :) And finally being able to do 1080p/24 is also another nice feature over the VW100. You get a nice sharp, judder-free picture.

And of course if you like sports the MotionFlow really helps out there. During football close ups of the players, coaches and cheerleaders look to real! :eek:

Joe. I am taking one home tonight.

I'll file a report on Sunday.

Awesome Mark! Can't wait. :)

How is the zoom on the VW200? Is it able to zoom out pretty far?, more than VW50/60? Do u all even use it or do some of u just set it all the way zoomed in?

The zooms on all three of the Sony's are excessive. 1.41 to 2.4. I'd rather have interchangeable lenses with much shorter zoom ranges. But that said, even for a lens with SUCH a long zoom range, the sucker is sharp. Convergence is very good. much better than on other 3 chipers I have played with recently. Carefull examinations will short very minor misconvergence in spots but a couple of clicks (tenths of pixels) here and there are spot on.


Joe, Simon,and Alan.Can you post at this stage of the thread (its getting long to filter through it) your selections of feature sets for sports and movies in terms of the Sony nomemclature?

I.e., for sports film mode off?,mtion flow 2, yada yada.

Same for other features.

There are a lot of combinations here and it will take me a few days to fiqure it all out. I get the best blacks with the iris on manual and closed to its max. DI gives good blacks too. My test screen is only 54 x 96 1.3, and the picture is bright . The blacks look good when watching, but by no way are they inky in the absolute. I played around with hand puppets and ended up with closing the iris. Still plenty bright.

One must remember I spend a lot of time playing with projectors and processors. Criticism I may make should not be read as condemnations of any product. I liked the Sim2 C3x1080 and this Sony so far.

However, compared to CRTs the blacks stil lhave a way to go. but that's about it. I prefer these projectors in allmost all other ways to my CRT. More on that later.

I think with respect to the Sony, the trade off will become artifacting associated with various features. i watched sports and movies on DTV high def last night. I'd turn a feature then see an artifact, then turn it off. I need a lot more time to sort it out.

I am very sensitive to deinterlacing and scaling artifacts. I watch a lot of video vs film, and deinterlacing of 480i and 1080i video, is tough. Scaling 480p and 720p to 1080p is less difficult but different artifacts are apparent. I have never been a fan of Sony's efforts in these areas. I will undoubtedly end up preferring the use of my Radiance to convert all video sources to 1080p 60. But I have to loan out my Radiance for a week or so so won't be able to do deinterlaciing scaling comparisons. Let's just say I see things in this regard I don't like but many people wouldn't be bothered by the artifacting.

Simon has a Radiance and perhaps can offer some comments here.

This weekend is big time sports. And I am going to watch the games through the picture thrown by the Sony. My focus will be on the action not on the picture. I enjoyed sports last night. No motion flow yada. I'll try it a little but I want to watch the games and not he picture this weekend if you know what I mean.

For Sports I am at Dynamic, Colorspace Wide, Manual Iris at 92, Film Projection Mode 3, Black level High, Gamma 3 and Motion Enhancer HIGH. I love the eye candy look this has. I know it is totally unorthodox but I can't help it.

Movies I prefer Standard, Manual Iris 92, Film Projection Mode 3, Black level LOW, Gamma OFF, Motion enhancer OFF. I think I am getting the absolute best movie images I have seen to date. Of course I also use a crystalio II with my VW200... Keep us posted! :)

Thanks. I'll try this tomorrow. Tonight its dinner with the wife and then off to a friend that has NBA season pass and a CRT to watch delayed by his DVR the Celtics/Pistons game at about 11PM. When I get home I'll watch the second NFL game, the earlier Redskins game I'll catch at my store. Being a sports fan is tough sometimes. Thank God for DVR and fast forward between plays. But color space wide? No way.

Oh yeah... Thank God for the HD DVR... Now if we could one day have 1080p broadcasts... :D

I have the radiance as well but using it at the moment it still lacks chroma delay. Between source and program material it is easily noticeable, chroma delay is all over the place between source. Not as noticeable with CRT but with the hard edges of a digital projector it can look like mis convergence or ringing. Chroma delay will be added soon. I go back and fourth to using the HDP until this is added.

Is the VW200 programmable over RS232, because there are no shortcuts or macro functions for changing the parameters? Isn`t it annoying to surf in the menu when You change from "movie" to "sport" settings?

Is the VW200 programmable over RS232, because there are no shortcuts or macro functions for changing the parameters? Isn`t it annoying to surf in the menu when You change from "movie" to "sport" settings?

Cant answer RS232 questions because I have not tried it but the Sony has 3 memories you can assign different modes to. That is what I use. I set 2 up for 24hz movies and one for 60hz HDTV.

I will get my VW200 next week. Therefore I have no manual of the VW200 until now. I have two questions:
1. What can I do over RJ45 with the Sony? Setup?
2. Does the VW200 accept 48 (47,95) HZ over its VGA plug?

Is the VW200 programmable over RS232, because there are no shortcuts or macro functions for changing the parameters?Yes.

In general, all options can be invoked directly over either the RS232 or the IP interface. No navigation of menus required, no "toggling" or "stepping" (as is typical of the IR remote interface). Sony has not yet released the protocol manual for the VW200, but the Qualia 004, VW100, VW50, and VW60 have all used the same protocol. The only differences are in the option values, which are specific to each model's feature set. (For instance, the VW200 has two HDMI inputs rather than one DVI and one HDMI, the VW200 has new aperture modes, new film modes, etc.)

You can download the VW100 Protocol Manual here:

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/VW100_protocol.pdf

And some coding examples here:

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/VPLVW100_samplecodes.pdf

I will get my VW200 next week. Therefore I have no manual of the VW200 until now.You can download the VW200 manual from Sony:

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/VPLVW200.pdf

I have two questions:
1. What can I do over RJ45 with the Sony? Setup?
2. Does the VW200 accept 48 (47,95) HZ over its VGA plug?1. The RJ45 jack (i.e., the IP interface) can do everything that you can do via the RS232 jack (serial interface). (See the Protocol Manual linked above.) In addition:

(a) Sony supplies a "color tweaking" utility program on a CD-ROM. This program actually uses the IP interface, as documented in the Protocol Manual. In principle, you could write your own utility program, using the documented protocol — but in the case of "color tweaking", at least, Sony has already done that for you.

(b) The projector has a built-in Web server. When the RJ45 jack is connected to your home network, you can access the projector with a Web browser. The Web interface "serves up" information and control pages. You can find out how much time is on the lamp — without turning on the projector. You can do everything that can be done with the IR remote, including "setup" functions.

2. There is only one 48 Hz mode documented as a "preset mode" on the analog VGA input. That mode is "Memory No. 9", 1080/24PsF (i.e., 1080/48i). But if experience with the VW100 is a guide, the VW200 will probably sync to other 48 Hz input signals, provided they are analog and not digital. (Although this is not documented, the VW100 will sync to a 48 Hz digital input on its DVI jack — but not on its HDMI jack!)

Correction (or clarification):

The VW50 and the VW60 do not have RJ45 jacks and they do not support the IP interface. The VW50 and the VW60 have RS232 jacks, and they do support the "same" serial interface as their "big brothers".

So the Web browser interface is exclusive to the Qualia 004, the VW100, and the VW200.

Great info! Thanks... :)

The manual sucks. it does tell you how to make adjustments for each adjustable parameter, but the description of the parameter is deminimus and the description of what each setting within the mode is less than deminimus. FOR MOTION ENHANCER, THE MUST INFO IT PRESENTS IS THAT USUALLY YOU SHOULD SET THIS TO OFF. Whoopee. Film modes are discussed as darker or lighter. smoother. Even the modes dynamic, normal cinema description. Sandard means rougher than dynamic. Whoopee.from reading reviews and dealer material suppled by Sony and stuff here, obviously I have considerable info on what all the adjustments do but on a scale of 0 to 10, the manual sucks. God, Ilove it on a scale of 0 to 10, it sucks. :)

The manual sucks. it does tell you how to make adjustments for each adjustable parameter, but the description of the parameter is deminimus and the description of what each setting within the mode is less than deminimus.You are right, of course.

However, while Sony's manuals are among the worst, nearly every vendor's consumer electronics manuals are "cryptic at best". It's almost as if they are daring us to figure out what some of these things "really do". At least their English syntax is generally good, nowadays ... remember what manuals from Japanese manufacturers were like 30 years ago?

But why are they so uninformative? I can think of about three directives they might give to their writers:

1. "Don't waste paper, we're running out of trees."

2. "Don't be too specific, somebody might sue us if they knew what these things did."

3. "Don't get too technical, consumers won't understand it."

I suspect #3 is closest to the truth. But I was surprised to find that Sony (at least) does distribute more technical information to the dealers (and I was grateful that somebody posted the "dealer-only" details of the new film modes here).

Sony (in particular) can be "very strange" about the distribution of technical data. I own a Sony plasma monitor, one that is marketed by their "industrial" division (as opposed to their "consumer" division). To get the RS232 interface manual for the plasma monitor, I had to twist some arms in "industrial marketing". And I was told, "We can give this to you only because you are in the U.S. — in Europe, we charge a fee for this same information."

Oh well. At least, nowadays, Sony (and most other vendors) post their manuals online, in PDF format. This permits us to get at least a little more detail than the marketing collateral provides, and often the manual will answer some of the questions that help you decide "to buy, or not to buy". Also, if you do decide to buy the product, the manual can provide "planning information" that is helpful before the product arrives. For instance, I have found the "throw charts" in projector manuals to be very helpful.

I have to admit I just glossed over the manual because I knew how the previous ones were. If I need to find some info I just use it as a reference source. :)

Joe, Simon,and Alan.Can you post at this stage of the thread (its getting long to filter through it) your selections of feature sets for sports and movies in terms of the Sony nomemclature?

I am very sensitive to deinterlacing and scaling artifacts. I watch a lot of video vs film, and deinterlacing of 480i and 1080i video, is tough. Scaling 480p and 720p to 1080p is less difficult but different artifacts are apparent. I have never been a fan of Sony's efforts in these areas. I will undoubtedly end up preferring the use of my Radiance to convert all video sources to 1080p 60. But I have to loan out my Radiance for a week or so so won't be able to do deinterlaciing scaling comparisons. Let's just say I see things in this regard I don't like but many people wouldn't be bothered by the artifacting.

Simon has a Radiance and perhaps can offer some comments here.


Mark:

I have 'video essential-ed' my PJ, so am using a "user 1' setting. In all cases I am using Gamma 3, Iris 1, and the normal color space. I have not found the iris to be distracting, at least not yet. But I'm pathetic - only at 18 hours!

I use film projection mode 3 and motionflow set to low for all movies (DVD, BR, and HDDVD). Motionflow set to hgh give a very wierd effect to film that I do not like at all.

For cable (sports) I have film projection off and motionflow set to high.

I have been very pleased with the performance of the Radiance, I use it for all sources outputting 1080p60 (which is all it will do at this stage). I have never been particularly sensitive to micro-judder so not sure if eventual 1080p24 output will make much difference for em. My only moan about Radiance is it s lack of an SDI input. Neither of my DVD players will output 480i over HDMI so I am currently stuck with 'double'scaling wich for DVD produces an inferior picture with Radiance than my SDI-equipped player did with the HDQ. Note to lumagen - SDI-to-HDMI converter box please!

On balance, though, very happy with both the VW200 and the Lumagen Radiance.

Simon

I spent most of last night watching the two NFL games on DVR delay. I did not play around with various settings very much. I used standard plus a bunch of other stuff recommended by Joe. At the end we switched to my CRT and replayed the end of one game. Wow was there a difference. The blacks were much much much beter on the CRT! The CRT was much easier to watch. Smoother and much easier on the eyes. Now remember my CRT is highly highly modified. The other factor here is the CRT was displaying 1080i (for the game we compared), while the Sony was upconverting the 1080i video signal to 1080p. I need to get my Radiance back to feed them both 1080p. I need to play around with the Sony at lot more. I have to dim it down and get the colors to be more natural. A lot has to do with the settings and Joe I think is an eye candy extremist. I am sure I can tweak the Sony at lot more. BTW Without the CRT to compare, I thought the Sony looked really good, the blacks appeared fine, perhaps because everything else was much brighter.

Mark

I recently revisited CRT. Ive been in digital for so long I forgot what what CRT looks like. I was really shocked how good it looks. We all know digital is the future and as good as the very best digital may look getting a glimpse at a good FP CRT serves as a reminder digital is still in need of some maturing.
Hearing the word CRT many automatically only think of its true black level but it goes beyond that. CRT looks more natural, not overly sharp and its very smooth and clean with very nice gradients from 0 to 100 ire without some of the weired gamma stuff I see on digitals. As you said its easy on the eye.
Digital is convenient without the setup hassles or repair issues of CRT. Digital has come a long way. Its to the point many CRTers have switched. Both are rewarding, one is a lot more work:)

My CRT is hanging just above whatever digital I am comparing, non inverted. All I have to do is change the HDMI cable from one to the other. I'll do some blu ray comparisons in a few days.

Mark I should point out that I have my crystalio II doing all the deinterlacing with my VW200. It does a great job with 1080i... And yes I am an eye candy extremist (I love the way that sounds) when it comes to sports. My movie settings are much more conservative... ;)

My 2 cents .....

Sold an Electrohome 9501LC with extensive mods (although probably not as tricked out as Mark's) two years ago for the VW100, and now onto the VW200. Agree that in some ways digital has some catching up to do, I just got sick of all the tweaking and fiddling. i wanted th system to work each time and every time.

Me too. You can plank one of these down on a table, plug in an HDMI and a power cord and 5 minutes later a focused aligned picture is on the screen. The problem with the Sony say vs the SIM2 1080 is the Sony has so many options that can be switched on or off or set dofferently, it takes a bit to optomize things. I am not there yet.

Watched the BCS game last night. I put the machine in cinema mode, high motion flow, gamma 3, auto iris 1, black level enhance high, normal color space. I'll do some A/Bs on that.

Reading this thread got me so pumped about the VW200 that I just ordered one. Thanks! (I think :) )

Reading this thread got me so pumped about the VW200 that I just ordered one. Thanks! (I think :) )

Welcome to the club. Let us know what you think. If you have any question when you get it post away. As Mark mentioned there are a lot of settings and features and it will take a while for you to settle in on what works for you. Its a very versatile machine.

I am still discovering new "tweaks" to improve upon my already more than happy with picture quality... Congrats, you will be very happy! :)

I like keeping the black enhance on high and running the machine in cinema mode in my dark pit theater. In standard, it looks ok with a moderate amount of wall light (sconces) turned on, easier on the eyes. i am talking video here. I am struggeling with gamma preference and the whole motionenhancer/film spectrum. Film mode one is useless. Film mode three appears best for me but the motion flow stuff. I dunno. i see too much artifacting on high. Low is OK but I am still going back and forth with turning it all off. Perhaops I'll end up with low motion enhance anf film off.

When I get to evaluating film souces everthing may change again.


Iris one is OK on video though blacks are best by turning the iris tomanual and the smallest opening. A little dim though.

I'm wondering how far back (relative to screen size) you guys are positioning your projector. I have a 100" diag screen, and the manual says the projector should be between 11-18' away. I don't want to have it so close that it blinds me, but I keep reading that light output will drop dramatically as the bulb ages.

How did you arrive at your installed distance from the screen?

No science. i am at about a 1.70 throw. it is a temporary set up as I have another projector (CRT mounted on the ceiling). the Sony is on a table on my second row riser, the only place I could place it. The farther back, the beter the blacks will be be but the less bright the picture will be. No sane judgements can be made at this point until our bulbs age a bit. Since your screen is small, I would guess that you should mount it close (about 6 inches or so), from all the way back.

Closer= more lumens
Further= more contrast
Choose your poison, but avoid the very extremes of zoom as pq can often drop off in these areas (if 11-18' are the end stops, I would go between 12 and 17' and for me personally I would go towards the long end for more contrast on my smallish screen).

Ekkehart do you happen to know what frequency the flicker is we are seeing when using Film Mode fed by 24hz. Is it 48hz?
Thank you!

Happy new years :)


Mark I removed your C3X post, to off topic. Plop it in one of the many C3X threads. Thanks Mark.


Ok Alan,

Especially for you I MEASURED the frequency today:

:)

1080p/60Hz or NTSC Material: 60Hz
1080p/24HZ: 48Hz
1080p/50Hz or PAL Material: 50Hz

I personally find the flickering in all modes more than annoying, so the film modes are not really useful in my eyes. It seems to me too that the "black" times are longer than in real Cinema. This whole thing looks more like oldfashioned and outdatet PAL-TV to me with its annoying 50Hz flickering.

And then there is the light loss:

50% in Mode1
20% in Mode2

In Mode2 our VW200 makes now 400 lumen at most!

No thanks really...


Regards,
Ekkehart

So is Mode 3 10%? I hardly notice any flickering when in Mode 3. It is not distracting at all. It improves the picture Q enough so that I have to have it on (at all times now). I guess to each his own... :)

Thanks for measuring. :)

Hi Ekkehart

You are the man :)
Just what I wanted to hear. Ifits going to flicker I want film flicker, true cinema flicker as it should be. As much as some may find it irritating if it flickered at any other rate I would have been disappointed. For film buffs as myself this is welcome news.
Regarding light loss using BFI, I look at this as working the same with a film projector as the shutter causes the same lose.
The Sony could always be brighter from the start to counter this but maybe next model. For my screen size it is still plenty bright.

Thanks for your work on this:)

He's watching pal, so more flickering.

Also we must distinguish between say having mode 3 on or off for video/film.Ditto for the motion enhancement choices, off, low, or high.

So according to even more reports the VW200 is in fact the Sapphire... :eek: Sounds fine to me... :)

I think we should nick name it the Jewel for you. :)

Just look at how mesmerized their eyes are! :eek: :D

I could not believe me eyes when I saw this:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8589253&type=product&id=1190678774531&ref=09&loc=01&srccode=cii_5766179&cpncode=12-37085332-2

I thought I would never see the day when BB would carry the VW200! Or any high end PJ... :eek: Good find! :)

Just look at how mesmerized their eyes are! :eek: :D

Try playing EIGHT BELOW for them and see if they
look like that. My Dog watched it and was Emotionally
Drained.

I should and will try Eight Below, they always have liked K-9... :)

At least Eight Below is in HD on Blu ray! ;)

I should and will try Eight Below, they always have liked K-9... :)

At least Eight Below is in HD on Blu ray! ;)

It might be rough on your dogs - they will FEEL the PAIN ;)

Good point. I will show them Underdog Blu ray instead! :D

I am a wee bit unclear on a couple of points .....

So there is the 'motionflow' selection in the menu, but then under the expert setting section there is 'film mode'. Selecting film mode 'off' seems to remove the effect of the motion enhancer selction under motion flow (but does not affect the film projection mode under motion flow). Conversely, setting film mode to either of the auto settings, but turning motion enhancer to off also eliminates the effect.

I am sure there is a sensible explanation for this .... what is the interrelationship between motion enhancer and film mode? I have only played around with this on film-based material not yet video.

Thx!

Simon

Any CIE charts on this, measuring color accuracy? I'm looking..

PS - I must be doing something wrong. Used motion enhancer late yesterday for football viewing and noticed no difference?

ca1ore I experienced the same confusion as you. The manual really does not do a very good job explaining what combination settings are needed or what they doing.
Heres what I found from experience so far. Film mode is an option only with interlaced source. It has to be on if you want to use motionflow, again only with an interlaced source. At times I did not see my MF working when watching 1080i and found I had to switch Film mode between 1 & 2 to get it working. Sometimes it works with only 2 and other times it worked with setting # 1. Go figure..without a detailed manual I have no idea what these modes are doing and why they sometimes work and others do not. At times I see it does not always kick in for some reason. Wen watching films at 24hz input or 1080p I never have any trouble. This may not help much but thats what I have experienced so far.

Alan:

Thanks for the explanation. Curiously, that does not appear to be my experience. I am running multiple sources (Samsung HDDVD/BR outputting native 1080p24 and Oppo 980H outputting native 480i) but all run through my Radiance which is then sending 1080p60 to the VW200. Maybe I am getting soft in the head, so will go back and check, but I think I have to engage 'film mode' to one of the Auto options in order to get the motion enhancer feature to work. My original thought was that setting 'film mode' to Auto 1 or 2 was the 'master switch' that engaged motion enhancer but that when set to Auto, film mode didn't do anything else for a 1080p signal (which has alredy been deinterlaced by the video processor). Your experience seems to refute that assumption.

More fiddling it seems!

Simon

PS - You're right, manual leaves a lot to be desired!

Im not in front of the projector to ck for accuracy on my part so you could be correct. If I remember correct under expert setting film mode does not show up for anything 1080p 24. I do remember seeing it for 1080i and now that I think of it maybe you are correct it may be there for anything 60hz regardless if its interlaced or progressive. I will not be able to ck again until tonight.

When I send in 1080p/60 from my crystalio II (DirecTV mainly) I have the Film Projection Mode on 3 and MotionFlow on High for sports and on OFF for movies. I do put it on LOW for cartoons or animated movies. With these parameters it does work. Football is mainly on close ups and certain replays. Also, commercials show the full affect. Especially those Charles Schwab ones. :eek: Basketball looks the coolest though. ;) I also have been able to get the MotionFlow to work for 1080p/24 from either my Blu ray or HD DVD unit coming from the crystalio II. I do not think there are any rules for what it works with and what it don't. So far I have been able get it to work for almost all resolutions I have tried... The Chargers and Colts game really looked good. You could even see where they needed to do some touch up painting in the COLTS endzone (white colors)... Now that is HD! :)

When I send in 1080p/60 from my crystalio II (DirecTV mainly) I have the Film Projection Mode on 3 and MotionFlow on High for sports and on OFF for movies. I do put it on LOW for cartoons or animated movies. With these parameters it does work. Football is mainly on close ups and certain replays. Also, commercials show the full affect. Especially those Charles Schwab ones. :eek: Basketball looks the coolest though. ;) I also have been able to get the MotionFlow to work for 1080p/24 from either my Blu ray or HD DVD unit coming from the crystalio II. I do not think there are any rules for what it works with and what it don't. So far I have been able get it to work for almost all resolutions I have tried... The Chargers and Colts game really looked good. You could even see where they needed to do some touch up painting in the COLTS endzone (white colors)... Now that is HD! :)

Joe:

OK, but what setting do you have on for the 'film mode'. In the VW video menu there is an 'expert setting' tab, inside which are a few settings one of which is 'film mode'. Could you tell me what you have this set to please.

Simon

I tried the 200 in a test against a number of machines recently and have to say its the first LC based machine that i would consider to be excellent. I has the advantages of the JVCs without the crippling downside. Side by side with the RS2 was very positively in the Sony's favor.

The 2 features i hate don't need to be used,( motion flow and the zone based MC adjustment) so neither are an issue

Anyone considering a mid level PJ of either LC or DLP persuasions MUST have this on the short list.

I tried the 200 in a test against a number of machines recently and have to say its the first LC based machine that i would consider to be excellent. I has the advantages of the JVCs without the crippling downside. Side by side with the RS2 was very positively in the Sony's favor.

The 2 features i hate don't need to be used,( motion flow and the zone based MC adjustment) so neither are an issue

Anyone considering a mid level PJ of either LC or DLP persuasions MUST have this on the short list.

Only in this insane hobby would someone consider what is basically a television
at $15,000 dollars mid level. :D :D :D

coldmachine
What makes you like vw200, xenon plus a good lens?
What would you like JVC to improve? Now it seems there are ways to control the gamut so we can check that point as fixed. Is a really top of the line lens the next move that JVC should consider to top vw200, in your opinino of course?

did you owners have your 200 isfed? or is it spot on out of the box?

coldmachine
What makes you like vw200, xenon plus a good lens?
What would you like JVC to improve? Now it seems there are ways to control the gamut so we can check that point as fixed. Is a really top of the line lens the next move that JVC should consider to top vw200, in your opinino of course?

PQ pure and simple is what sets the 200 apart from other LC based machines and optics are a main part of that. Its the only LC machine I've seen that i would consider for myself or recommend to others and thats coming from someone who prefers the razor sharp image that DLP does so well.

I have mentioned before on here that I ran a demo that included 4 LC based PJs, 4 single chip DLPs and 2 3 chippers. All were mid to high end, all were calibrated and normalized for brightness and were torture tested. The other 2 LC machines failed dismally and failed the pre cal testing at an HD post facility due to panel issues, The 200 had no issues. I had intended to go into detail with this testing ( it was actually a demo to allow a friend to pick a new PJ) but it would only start a flame war.

One thing that would have improved the VW200 would be to split the throw ratio and use 2 lens option rather than 1. There are some serious advantages to this approach as any wide zoom range causes issues and large lumen drops are the order of the day. Splitting avoids this. Unfortunately this adds to the cost.

As for the JVC, i don't consider the gamut fixed but I'll move on. The Panel uniformity is horrific and the RS2 still has this issue especially in the corners, I've already posted an RS2 uniformity screen shot. I'll repeat it here if you wish. The image is soft and thats for 2 reasons 1. Its fundamental to the technology and 2. Poor optics. I dont think JVC are interested in competing with better machines as its squarely aimed at the consumer segment, the VW200 isnt aimed at that market. ANSI needs to be worked on too, as the great blacks on the JVC are destroyed when any bright areas appear on screen. Other specs on the RS2 are lower than the RS1 as well.

Obviously all IMHO

I just leave my film mode in auto 1... Never have touched it.

did you owners have your 200 isfed? or is it spot on out of the box?

You never know how spot on it is till its been calibrated anyway. That observation aside, the VW200 I tested was almost identical to the HT380 ootb. Thats high praise as the 380 is very close to perfect. On testing, the VW200 was actually a hairs breadth closer to the ideal. Some CMS action reversed that:D

The VW200 I had was so close that adjustment made no visible difference. The guy who did all our testing is a former Hollywood colorist and commented immediately on its ootb performance.

To me, and what stops me from buying an RS2 for myself is the lens. The colors yada yada are fixable with my Radiance. The biggest flaw is the softness of the image.

JVC I suspect will put together a package like they had in the old days with a high quality lens and a bundled processor. This for those many who already own good processors will not be a good solution and inquiries will be made about buying only the head unit. My guess is that the bundle will MSRP for about $15K and the head unit alone for about $12K. I have no inside info. I am guessing based on prior history, we will see it demoed at Cedia and it will ship 1st Q 2009. Tom Sites. How am I doing?

The Sony is a fine machine but its zoom is long, one size fits all. Seperate zoom range lenses would increase the cost because the same economies of scale could not be obtained by splitting the number for one lens say in thirds or halves. Second a lens mount would add to the costs plus the stuff on the lens locking it and electrically connecting it (for auto and manual but still electric iris purposes) to the lens mount.

The longer a zoom range, the the harder it is to design the lens without optical quality compromises, and the more glass elements that eat light are needed. The longer the zoom, the more large lens elements are required for adequate effective aperture. Increase one F stop, say 5.6 to 4, the smaller number is a larger lens, doubles the glass size. It would indeed lead to a brighter picture if Sony used interchangeable short zoom range zoomes such as it did for the Qualia. Another problem with this is that the chip orientations are matched to the specific lens. The optical engine and its final alignment includes the actual lens you get. Providing interchangeable lenses perhaps means less optimally converged panels.

We are a bunch of video nerds making if only wishes. If we had a genie who could grant us three wishes to improve a specific projector, the only satisfying third wish would be a wish for three more wishes.

In all this, it is important to remember not to believe everything you think.

Its a private joke, but I think Coldmachine and I could agree often its best to JSTFP.

Awesome points Mark... :)

T

The Sony is a fine machine but its zoom is long, one size fits all. Seperate zoom range lenses would increase the cost because the same economies of scale could not be obtained by splitting the number for one lens say in thirds or halves. Second a lens mount would add to the costs plus the stuff on the lens locking it and electrically connecting it (for auto and manual but still electric iris purposes) to the lens mount.

The longer a zoom range, the the harder it is to design the lens without optical quality compromises, and the more glass elements that eat light are needed. The longer the zoom, the more large lens elements are required for adequate effective aperture. Increase one F stop, say 5.6 to 4, the smaller number is a largwer lens, doubles the glass size. It would indeed lead to a brighter picture if Sony used interchangeable short zoom range zoomes such as it did for the Qualia. Another problem with this is that the chip orientations are matched to the specific lens. The optical engine and its final alignment includes the actual lens you get. Providing interchangeable lenses perhaps means less optimally converged panels.



Excellent point. I wish i had mentioned that.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Posts are not a contest. Its a collective sharing ( a team sport if you will) and you Coldmachine contribute more substance to these discussions than I could ever hope to. :)

BTW, two weeks from today I'll be spending a day in training at Sim2USA in Miramar.

Posts are not a contest. Its a collective sharing ( a team sport if you will) and you Coldmachine contribute more substance to these discussions than I could ever hope to. :)

BTW, two weeks from today I'll be spending a day in training at Sim2USA in Miramar.

You always say the sweetest things mark:) Some people would say that the substance i contribute is mainly brown and smelly.:eek: maybe thats what you meant.... hmmmm. For some time now i have suspected you of being a Jedi of subtlety;)

You expanded the point better than I could have.:)

A little off topic, (well hell way off topic) but what VP do you guys like in conjunction with the 200? I've been following since day one and the VP does assist PQ- no?

I like the Radiance and with respect to deinterlacing 480i and 1080i VIDEO and scaling 4Sony is clodsr to the job done by the Radiance. Plus the video switching and all the other neat stuff the Radiance does, I am a big fan. A CRT hides some deinterlacing and scaling aerifacts that scream at me when watching a DIGITAL.

We are a bunch of video nerds making if only wishes. If we had a genie who could grant us three wishes to improve a specific projector, the only satisfying third wish would be a wish for three more wishes.
When I read this, it reminded me of how insomniac Howard Hughes bought local television stations in Las Vegas so he could force them to play his kind of movies ater midnight.

I like the Radiance and with respect to deinterlacing 480i and 1080i VIDEO and scaling 4Sony is clodsr to the job done by the Radiance. Plus the video switching and all the other neat stuff the Radiance does, I am a big fan. A CRT hides some deinterlacing and scaling aerifacts that scream at me when watching a DIGITAL.

I'm about 90% committed to run with the 200 and IMHO a VP seems like a logical move since my SSP can be purchased w/o any video processing. Mark, have you seen Joe's crystilloII(sp) at work? Sure would be nice to compare the 2 against each other. One more thing, my screen is a 10' scope, so is my throw calculated by 1:78 width or the 2.35:1 length? By any chance is anyone using an AL with your machines?

I'm about 90% committed to run with the 200 and IMHO a VP seems like a logical move since my SSP can be purchased w/o any video processing. Mark, have you seen Joe's crystilloII(sp) at work? Sure would be nice to compare the 2 against each other. One more thing, my screen is a 10' scope, so is my throw calculated by 1:78 width or the 2.35:1 length? By any chance is anyone using an AL with your machines?

Im using an Isco 3 with the VW200. I have the C2 and the Radiance. All are top performers. The Radiance is the latest gen of all VPs. Once all the features are added it will be the one to beat.
Your throw would be based on 1.78 fitting inside your scope screen which Im guessing would be roughly 8 feet wide :)

When I read this, it reminded me of how insomniac Howard Hughes bought local television stations in Las Vegas so he could force them to play his kind of movies ater midnight.

If you cant beat em join em!

Joe:

OK, but what setting do you have on for the 'film mode'. In the VW video menu there is an 'expert setting' tab, inside which are a few settings one of which is 'film mode'. Could you tell me what you have this set to please.

Simon


Ok I did some testing and under "expert setting" Film Mode shows up for anything 60hz and must be turned on for motionflow to work. It worked for me regardless if I chose one or two.
Takes a while to get use to but its kind of a cool novelty:)

I tried the 200 in a test against a number of machines recently and have to say its the first LC based machine that i would consider to be excellent. I has the advantages of the JVCs without the crippling downside. Side by side with the RS2 was very positively in the Sony's favor.

The 2 features i hate don't need to be used,( motion flow and the zone based MC adjustment) so neither are an issue

Anyone considering a mid level PJ of either LC or DLP persuasions MUST have this on the short list.

Wholly sh1t..its great having coldmachine drop in and give his endorsement. Thats saying a lot for this machine. Anyone following the forums knows he is an outspoken perfectionist
and tekks it like it is and owns the best of the best so he knows what good looks like. Good seeing you here:)

Ok I did some testing and under "expert setting" Film Mode shows up for anything 60hz and must be turned on for motionflow to work. It worked for me regardless if I chose one or two.
Takes a while to get use to but its kind of a cool novelty:)

Thanks Alan, mirrors my experience! At 1080p24 'film mode' dissapears as an option - you were quite right.

Simon

Sorry, I could have told you that.

As for VPs I do like my crystalio II. It has an easy to read userface and has the best firmware upgrade procedure (usb flashcard) out there. Also its Dynamic VP mode makes it super easy and as far as looks go it is hands down the best looking VP on the market. :)

Given aprox 8' screen, what is my min/max throw? Currently I have my PJ backing installed @ 16.5" from screen...
Don't mean to beat on your VP's, but do I understand that the Crystilo is upgradeable and the Radiance is not? Either way, looks like they go very nicely with the Sapphire:)

... I have mentioned before on here that I ran a demo that included 3 LC based PJs, 3 single chip DLPs and 2 3 chippers. All were mid to high end, all were calibrated and normalized for brightness and were torture tested. The other 2 LC machines failed dismally and failed the pre cal testing at an HD post facility due to panel issues, The 200 had no issues. I had intended to go into detail with this testing ( it was actually a demo to allow a friend to pick a new PJ) but it would only start a flame war...I for one would appreciate reading your detailed comparison. If done in it's own seperate thread, it should provide great benefit to the AVS community.

The minimum throw is 1.41 times the screen width. The maximum throw is 2.4 times the screen width. The Radiance is software upgradable. There have been about 50 upgrades since the first beta release. Upgrades are easy to do over the internet. That's one of the beauties of the Radiance. Lumagen keeps adding new features, about every 2 weeks.

Wholly sh1t..its great having coldmachine drop in and give his endorsement. Thats saying a lot for this machine. Anyone following the forums knows he is an outspoken perfectionist
and tekks it like it is and owns the best of the best so he knows what good looks like. Good seeing you here:)

Kind words Alan, thank you.

In a nutshell.........If ANYONE is looking to throw down $15k on a PJ, irrespective of technology preference or bias there are 2 machines at that price point that you MUST have on your shortlist. They are the HT3000e and the VW200. They simply outperform all others. Each has pros and cons and clear advantages over the other.

If they're not on your list, you're blind, stupid or most probably both and should be publicly pelted with lumps of excrement.

Can you get a more seductive mistress than those 2? Yes you certainly can, but those bitches wont get you off for under $30k.:D:D. 3 Chip DLP is clearly still in a class of its own its own

In a nutshell.........If ANYONE is looking to throw down $15k on a PJ, irrespective of technology preference or bias there are 2 machines at that price point that you MUST have on your shortlist. They are the HT3000e and the VW200. They simply outperform all others. Each has pros and cons and clear advantages over the other.


I haven't seen one yet, but I would think the Marantz VP11S2 deserves to be on that list.

I haven't seen one yet, but I would think the Marantz VP11S2 deserves to be on that list.

Its my list, its not speculative, and its fully up to date.:)

Its my list, its not speculative, and its fully up to date.:)

Fair enough. Can I ask why you do not consider the Marantz in the same league? The 11S2 and HT380 are at the top of my list for my next projector at this moment - all subject to change of course.

I agree with that list. :)

Fair enough. Can I ask why you do not consider the Marantz in the same league? The 11S2 and HT380 are at the top of my list for my next projector at this moment - all subject to change of course.

Thats a subject for another thread or PM, I'm more than willing to explain.

PS If you are using a large screen and you can throw down for a 11s2 then you can afford a 3000e, even after the 11S2 panic price slash.

I for one would appreciate reading your detailed comparison. If done in it's own seperate thread, it should provide great benefit to the AVS community.

That would be something to think about. To do it properly, in a manner that i would be happy with, would take a fair amount of time and effort. My schedule is pretty tight.

The main issue, for me at least, is that whilst most people may wish to see the information, as you yourself would, when they read something they don't like or agree with, their attitude changes dramatically.

There can also be a tendency for people to get nasty and personal. Even when extra effort is put in to prove the point or provide more info, these self same people refuse to acknowledge that and continue their belligerence or just start something else in another thread. I've had it done to me on a number of occasions. You may have seen this sort of negativity at some point.

I would have loved to have done it. The nature of the test facilities and equipment used and the nature of the test schedule that was used may have been of great interest, it certainly was for me. Tests were carried out in a world class facility by some outstanding people, including a former Hollywood colorist who is now the senior HD consultant for a major broadcaster.

We even used a RED ONE as a source, I'm pretty sure thats never been done before in the HT segment. Those who saw my HT380 registration images may have noticed it was done using custom software being developed for broadcast HD testing. We used that extensively as well.

The whole process was a revelation to me, and i considered myself fairly well informed. Im just not sure its worth the effort to make it available publicly, for the reasons stated. I will continue to share information privately.

The words nasty, personal, belligerence, negativity, and love all in the same post asnd none used perogitively. Brilliant!

I love it when others around here like to chime in and doubt end users. Especially when most have never even seen the product... ;)

I think maybe this thread is drifting away from the VPL-vw200 a bit. We need to get it back on track


Simon. Time for some more observations.

I have not officially hit the 250 hour mark! :eek:

...You may have seen this sort of negativity at some point...Touche! :D:D

In any case, when you have a chance and time, please post the comparison info. I am certain it will benefit the AVS community.

Knowing CM's love affair with SIM2 products very well, one of the projectors on that list doesnt surprise me at all. 8)

It should be noted that there havent been any questionable in spec postings of CA shots from 15S1s, or 11S1s for that matter. The postings of CM's HT380's lens performance seems to be the norm for the 15S1s that owners, and reviewers, have reported on, rather than being the exception - or "likely not normal" as I believe CM had stated on another thread. Also there are no complaints or returns of excessive rainbows that have been reported in re the 15S1.

The 11S2 on the other hand is a step up from the 15S1 in both regards and its been stated that by Dan Miller, of Marantz, that they looked at UNISHAPE and VIDI and decided against opting for more brightness in exchange for picture quality.

I dont know if CM has seen the 11S2, yet, though it wouldnt surprise me if he has. 8)

CM, I could have sworn you posted on another thread that the HT380 and 15S1 were both preferred, by your ISF guys and friends, over the RS2 and the VW200. Did you get to spend some more time with the VW200 for this opinion to have changed? Or are you just saying that if you would consider the 11S2 that HT3000 is better, and that the VW200 is just a different animal from the other 2?

Im not going to ruin this VW200 thread by taking it further OT.

I have no idea why you are comparing the 380 and 15s1 in this thread or specifically why you are slamming the Sim2 machine. Its inappropriate in this thread and i therefore don't intend a rebuttal in the very detailed and effective manner in which I could. To do so would be rather undignified and lacking the class with which I've been treated on this thread, and by PM, by the VW200 posters.

I couldn't care less what brand is best and have no need to defend a purchase. If my machines are outperformed, I'll be totally over the moon, as I'll just go and buy the better unit without a second thought, its that simple. I don't view them as anything other than mere toys , and certainly not worthy of the cultist deification that seems all too prevalent on AVS.

If i posted that the VW200 was bested by the 15s1 then i can assure you that I got my PJ models/numbers mixed up, for that I sincerely apologize. I was dealing with 10 units and must not have consulted my very extensive notes prior to posting. I wont make that mistake in future, so thank you for pointing that out and thus helping improve my future posting.

I wont address the other points on here, but this sort of proves the validity of my thinking regarding publication of the information and results from our testing and the potential response to it. Having seen some of the hysteria driven and infantile responses, on AVS, to a recent reviewers work, I'm sure people will understand and respect this view.

I have no wish to participate in anything that will detract from the enjoyment that VW200 owners may derive from this thread and am saddened it has taken this unwarranted turn, when a simple PM would have better sufficed. I hope this puerile little episode is now behind us and we can move on as further response is unnecessary.



Im actually now beginning to regret having come on here to give my views on this machine.

Can you get a more seductive mistress than those 2? Yes you certainly can, but those bitches wont get you off for under $30k.:D:D.

That's quote demonstrates what I like about coldmachine. He's sensitive to the ladies.:D

CM,

I am certain that the VW200 is a first class machine. I actually ponied up for one, to try one out, but decided against it/cancelled it after buyer's remorse set in.

I did not want to inconvenience the store, and myself, with a likely return on a backordered product that could have been misconstrued as a special order.

This last post that you seem to have an issue with wasnt really meant as an attack on you. Its just a little balance for cal187 as to how, aside from the fact that the 11S2 is a DC4 machine, the 11S2 appears to have areas where it performs better than the HT3000. You certainly seemed to be deriding the 11S2.

I did find what you posted about the 15S1, and none of this was anything we exchanged in PMs as I certainly did not want to go into any of that detail, and it is very possible that you got a few projectors confused. As you can see from what you said though, it did make me wonder if you had a chance to spend more time with the VW200:

Thats a valid point. Whilst my figures for ANSI show a minor difference, its a difference I'd never actually quote as its so close. I have outlined the test equipment and methodology before and they are beyond question

Also in fairness to the 15s1 i have to say it very easy to take those figures out of context and use them to make it look bad. IT ISNT.

There were Sony and JVC machines on our test ( one of which failed a pre cal uniformity test) and all were calibrated. Overall the 15s1 was judged as noticeably superior to both in terms of PQ by the people the demo was for.

Some of us lose sight of the fact that the best projector is the one that comes closest to solving an individuals HT issues and requirements. Thats the bottom line no matter what. If thats a $500 data machine or a $500k pro unit, they are equally valid as "Best" choices.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=969467

Post 14, to see it in context.

Not only is he sensitive to the ladies, Lawguy. Sometimes he is just too sensitive.

I think maybe this thread is drifting away from the VPL-vw200 a bit. We need to get it back on track. Simon. Time for some more observations.

In no particular order (of either relevance or insight):

1. I have been quite impressed with the convergence of my VW200 - significantly better than I had previously experienced with the VW100 (probably my dealer forgot to give the 200 a big kick before shipping it to me - or maybe I was just less of a pest this time :D). It does not seem that the electronic convergence feature will be necessary.

2. Cannot get over how much sharper this PJ is versus the VW100. You notice it mostly on the menus and HDDVD/BR credits. Better lens is IMO, the most compelling reason to go for this baby.

3. I have finally decided that motionflow is best left off for film. The motion enhancer feature is OK on low, but very weird on high. Works fine for vido but not for film. I also do not like the film projection mode. While I can understand the appeal for its 'film-like' look, at the end of the day that is an unavoidable artifact of film - why impose it when you don't have to . So for me, film projection always OFF.

4. Unlike Tom Norton, I do not find the auto iris to be distracting - but then I didn't on the VW100 either.

5. 1080p24 input directly into the PJ works very nicely.

Simon

Simon the 200 has an all digital signal path over the 100. While it still shows some roll off at the upper end it is improved over the 100. I actually think the slight roll off may be responsible for the projectors clean smooth CRT look. It looks more analog verses that hard digital glare.
I also agree with you on 1,2,4,5:)

I would greatly appreciate any comments owners of the VW200 have regarding uniformity. I have a Pearl that I enjoy very much in every way other than its non uniformity. Black and white, a favorite genre for me, is hard to watch. I have a slight [much improved over an earlier Sony lycos RP set] lavender discoloration in the center of my screen that is very distracting.

Moving up to some of the other advantages of this PJ would be more tempting if I thought I had a chance of near perfect color uniformity. Thank you!

I was watching Seabusicuit HD DVD and the Black & White scenes were absolutely stunning... :eek:

You are in love :) but love makes us sometimes blind :D

My VPL-vw200 is on loan this week so I can't run a white field test on it.

Compared to my CRT, the apparent white field uniformity was much better on the Sony. One might expect this given the three guns/tubes arrangement of a FP CRT. Almost all CRTs seem brighter in the center.

Because digitals are much brighter than CRTs, the gray blacks digitals have mostly are not bothersome. The extra brightness of the bright scenes makes the blacks appear blacker to your eyes. They aren't and this becomes very apparent if a black screen is projected for a while. Do the hand puppets and one quickly sees how inky the blacks realyy aren't. HOWEVER, because of the dynamic range of the projectors, its really not bothersome 99% of the time.

Now if one shows a black and white DVD on a CRT vs a digital, it isn't even close. The pictures look entirely different and from the comparison and only from the comparison its hard to watch a black and white scene on the digital anymore without going ugh!. I don't care whether its an RS2, a VPL-vw200, or whatever.


Also, the color temperature for a black and white scene is considerably lower than 6500K, its approximately 5400K. One can calibrate a memory on the projector or processor to produce a gray scale at this temperature. Any viewing of black and white at 6500K will be a severe aberration. Obviously viewing movies like seabiscuit and the latest bond flick which have some black and white scenes, one really can't be switching the color temp to match the scene.

Any projector is limited in what it can do. One can analyze performance of various parameters. Joe and I both like the performance of the Sony. Does it have design flaws. None that I have detected if one is selective on what tricks that have been packed inside are turned off or on and to what extent, such as motion enhancement, yada yada.

However, there are like any other projector type, technical limitations of what the machine can do.

Presenting black and white pictures is not a strength of any digital projector including the Sony.

Comments like its great are meaningless from an owner unless the owner is a qualified observer having other types of projectors available to do a/bs, yada yada.

In another thread, an unqualified observer went to a store and commented on how much better the colors were on the RS! or RS2 he saw compared to several other projectors. We all know the colors on the JVC are oversaturated. Mikey liked it though and that's fine. He didn't have a clue that they wern't right. It looked much better to him. Just like a set in a sea of plasmas turned up to 9000K is likely to outsell to the mass consumer than a similar set set to 6500K.

Liking what you have is great. But repeatedly telling inquirers how much you like it doesn't really help specifics inquiries.

How is this parameter?

I like it. Its perfect to my eyes.

Prioblem? I don't see no freeking problem.

Thanks a lot for that answer. :)

I would greatly appreciate any comments owners of the VW200 have regarding uniformity. I have a Pearl that I enjoy very much in every way other than its non uniformity. Black and white, a favorite genre for me, is hard to watch. I have a slight [much improved over an earlier Sony lycos RP set] lavender discoloration in the center of my screen that is very distracting.

My vw200 is not perfect in this regard. It is not plagued with the 'green blob' problem that was (and still is) clearly apparent on my SXRD rear projection set, but on a white screen I can still see very slight color shift towards the bottom of the screen. I have not noticed this when watching movies (but I also don't have any B/W films either) nor do I see it on a grey-scale test pattern. I should note that the VW100 was pretty good in this regard also.

Simon

My VW200 has that darn bright corner issue when in full black. My VW100 was fine but had some color uniformity issues. My 200 is ok with color uniformity but in an all black the upper right hand corner is running hot. Between the Sonys and the JVCs I do not expect Lcos to match DLP in uniformity but Lcos excels in other areas.

My VW200 has that darn bright corner issue when in full black. My VW100 was fine but had some color uniformity issues. My 200 is ok with color uniformity but in an all black the upper right hand corner is running hot. Between the Sonys and the JVCs I do not expect Lcos to match DLP in uniformity but Lcos excels in other areas.

Oh yeah, forgot about this :o

My VW200 does have slightly brighter corners (mainly bottom left) but in my case is actually better than my old VW100. I think what this tells you is that these PJs are all different when it comes to color/brightness uniformity and panel convergence. If one is lucky, then you can get minimal issues, if not .....

No projector or projector technology will be free of some areas where performance could be better. Suppose your projector hass some bright corners during a black field. In real life, nobody will notice it except you in those very limited times when you will be viewing a black field. Better to enjoy than to obsess. Hell you are not perfect and people love you despite your flaws. As long as a flaw is not fatal, you are good to go.

Does that mean the 30 people or so who has seen my VW200 is also blind? :eek:

I would greatly appreciate any comments owners of the VW200 have regarding uniformity.

Prior to calibration, all the PJs in the tests mentioned above had to pass a number of pre calibration tests (used in HD post), one of which was uniformity. The VW200 did display a degree of uniformity error. All the DLPs were superior in this category, as would be expected

I wouldn't describe it as remotely bad for an LC based machine and was far better than the other LC machines, some of which were terrible, actually failing the pre cal test.

When people discuss uniformity they usually, and correctly, are referring to the uniform distribution of light across the image. I personally feel that something else that needs to be uniform is focus. Corner to corner focus is a quantity that seems to get overlooked, particularly in consumer models. It doesn't make it onto spec sheets and doesn't sound good to J6P.It is, however, one of the main foundations of a quality image The example I tested displayed very good C2C focus, as should be expected at that price point, but sadly cant be taken for granted.

Its a simple but often overlooked fact that with cheap glass of inferior MTF amongst other things, a 1080p panel may actually yield less detail than a high quality 720 machine despite the pixel count. I think Alan still uses a little powerhouse that illustrates that perfectly. This is an area that the VW200 had no such issues.

Hope this helps