I don't think it bitsteams or even converts to PCM DTS-HD MA does it? That's what's on Patton, a real keeper. I have almost every version of this movie from LD on up. This is the real experience.

It is the ONLY Player that decodes DTS-HD to LPCM.

It does not bitstream Lossless audio.

It is the ONLY Player that decodes DTS-HD to LPCM.

It does not bitstream Lossless audio.

Master Audio?

PS Sorry to keep diverting topic.

Master Audio?

PS Sorry to keep diverting topic.

It decodes Everything

It sure does decode everything! :) That is why it was such a good buy (299.00). We get pristine pic Q, excellent audio sent into our pre/pros or receivers and unmatched load times. Seriously, when some titles state this may take 2 to 3 minutes to load depending on your firmware version this player blows right thru it. Literally!

It sure does decode everything! :) That is why it was such a good buy (299.00). We get pristine pic Q, excellent audio sent into our pre/pros or receivers and unmatched load times. Seriously, when some titles state this may take 2 to 3 minutes to load depending on your firmware version this player blows right thru it. Literally!

To continue off topic, the recent PC World review (which typically favors Cell processor based equipment) rated the PS3 as lower resolution than the dedicated units. I had a PS3 (original) but sold it when a guy named Hank said the PS3 was good in the game room but he wanted a real Pio in the main viewing room :o

To continue off topic, the recent PC World review (which typically favors Cell processor based equipment) rated the PS3 as lower resolution than the dedicated units. I had a PS3 (original) but sold it when a guy named Hank said the PS3 was good in the game room but he wanted a real Pio in the main viewing room :o

We are not talking about 2 years ago.

There have been TONS of updates since then that
turned it into a KILLER MACHINE.

Just recently I listened to the good DR. and I wish I just got a PS3 to begin with. The VW200/PS3 combo works quite well together... :)

We are not talking about 2 years ago.


Twas the night before Christmas (2007) and all through the house, a Pio in the theater room and a PS3 in the game room. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12571734#post12571734)

:) :o :)

One man's six monmths is another man's 6 years. I guess I guts to get me an 80GB PS3. I'll PM you on the IR.

Twas the night before Christmas (2007) and all through the house, a Pio in the theater room and a PS3 in the game room. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12571734#post12571734)

:) :o :)

One man's six monmths is another man's 6 years. I guess I guts to get me an 80GB PS3. I'll PM you on the IR.

I didn't buy my 2nd and NEW PS3 for the Theater until APRIL
when they released Profile 2.0 Update.

WHO KNEW what SONY was going to do.

I would get the 40GB version because it is known for being much quieter. Ofc ourse who knows about their newer 80GB...

Hi all thx to this Forum and to everything I have read...I wonder what settings i should start out with..My room is 92 inch Diag Screen got the projector about 182 inchs away from screen...I have not even turned it on yet wanted to check here first for settings....Thx guys I really love the sight really helped me make up my mind on what to get....X...:)

Congrats on the 200! :)

Hi all thx to this Forum and to everything I have read...I wonder what settings i should start out with..My room is 92 inch Diag Screen got the projector about 182 inchs away from screen...I have not even turned it on yet wanted to check here first for settings....Thx guys I really love the sight really helped me make up my mind on what to get....X...:)

Congrats on your new projector. There are so many different combinations of settings it may be hard for anyone to give advice what setting to choose but I would start out with factory default. I would leave off film mode as well as motion flow until you have a satisfactory picture ( will not take much :)) without all the cool toys.

Good luck!

Thx Alan and Joe....The projector is really nice watched a Movie last night and boy did it look good.....Im sure I will get it better tho in time...One thing is I have a Carada 1.4 gain screen ...The screen size is 92 inchs wide its a tad bit dim comming from the RS1..Do you think a higher gain screen is the answer or should I darken up my room up a more...Hmmm...:confused:

My walls are off white so I know im loosing Punch...I am going to come up with a way to blacken my room more.

Thx again X.......:D

JUst out of curiousity, how does one of these things compete against say a Sony G90??

Congrats on your new projector. There are so many different combinations of settings it may be hard for anyone to give advice what setting to choose but I would start out with factory default. I would leave off film mode as well as motion flow until you have a satisfactory picture ( will not take much :)) without all the cool toys.

Good luck!

X-man,

Agree with Alan (that's easy, he's always right), but after you try the defaults, try setting up Thomas Norton's settings in User 1 or User 2.

To me they did make a good baseline to start from and then twaek some more. Before I got my 200 I looked at eavery post in this thread as a number of users did their tweaks and found the Norton settings pretty much mirrored the consensus.

You can find them here. Click here. (http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1207sonyvw200/index6.html)

Hi All,

Had time to get the 200 set up over the weekend. It sure looks good. Glad I decided to do the upgrade from the 100.
We watched Larry the cable guy "Witless Protection" on Blu-Ray. All I can say is WOW. It was like being on the movie set watching it being filmed!!

I`d like to share some remarks that I`ve found using the VW200 with the PS3 for 200 hours now. I`d like your replies and tips setting these VW200`s controls comparing to my observations.

1) Cinema Black Pro - Advanced Iris: I got addicted to Auto 1 set. Despite viewing some changes on the blacks, setting it to OFF makes me missing the deep blacks. I combine it with Gamma 2 with great results.
2) Motionflow – Film Projection: Here comes a pitfall. I can clearly see flickering with any of the modes engaged. Off setting makes everything back to normal.
3) Motionflow – Motion Enhancer: I have tried to set it off but I like the video appearance the high setting gives to movies. When displaying video and cartoons the HIGH setting is a must to me!
4) Film Mode: You don`t need it with PS3 1080p/24fps amazing Bluray picture. I`ve found PS3 up conversion of standard DVDs pure garbage. I`m using my Denon`s Theranex chipset to convert 480p up to 1080p/60fps and send it to the VW200. Once more, I leave the Film Mode on OFF to avoid strange digital noises.

I use DVE HD Basics and HD HQV Benchmark Blu-ray Discs. Also, I use those on regular DVDs to calibrate the VW200. I also prefer the AVIA II DVD to calibrate color and THX DVD to calibrate contrast and brightness. Am I becoming a total freak or what?
:eek:

I`d like to share some remarks that I`ve found using the VW200 with the PS3 for 200 hours now. I`d like your replies and tips setting these VW200`s controls comparing to my observations....
I use DVE HD Basics and HD HQV Benchmark Blu-ray Discs. Also, I use those on regular DVDs to calibrate the VW200. I also prefer the AVIA II DVD to calibrate color and THX DVD to calibrate contrast and brightness. Am I becoming a total freak or what?
:eek:

Can you indicate any specific video settings you use on the PS3 itself with the 200?

I just picked up a unit open box just for a quicker Blu-ray transport.

Oh yeah, set the PS3 audio to Linear and select all options in the menu. Then for picture I like super white on and the output set to limited. You will know what I am posting about when you go to the settings section. And keep the scaling on Normal. If you don't have a remote you may want to get one. I like the display button. It shows a lot of info when you hit it...

Oh yeah, set the PS3 audio to Linear and select all options in the menu. Then for picture I like super white on and the output set to limited. You will know what I am posting about when you go to the settings section. And keep the scaling on Normal. If you don't have a remote you may want to get one. I like the display button. It shows a lot of info when you hit it...

Joe,

Thanks. Limited & Normal were the key ones I wondered about. Using PS3IR-PRO for remote connection (thanks to a regular here).

Hi All,

Had time to get the 200 set up over the weekend. It sure looks good. Glad I decided to do the upgrade from the 100.
We watched Larry the cable guy "Witless Protection" on Blu-Ray. All I can say is WOW. It was like being on the movie set watching it being filmed!!

Another one joins the club. Congrats.

No problem. I have been enjoying this combo for some time now. And isn't it just amazing how fast the PS3 loads? :eek: Also, you should notice better color since it does 10 bit... ;)

All I can say is this thing puts out a unreal picture once you get it set up right ...

I can now say I do not miss my 9 inch Front Projector anymore lol....

I will also say its worth every penny and would say to anyone this is THE projector to buy for SXRD.......

Thanks for the help guys.....XenonMan......:D

Glad you like it XenoMan! I agree. This is my first PJ purchase where a few months later I am not looking for and or waiting for a newer PJ! :eek:

Hi folks,

another points to comment:
I have changed the Gamma to 1 combined with the Auto Iris 1 = Better details near black.
Motion Flow set to High in impressive to watch concert videos, TV shows and cartoons!!!
I needed to use the RCP to adjust the REDs. Blue and Green were set right using the color set to 60.
Brightness set to 50
Contrast set to 97!!! To high but is were the pattern is set right.

Always with the BD of Video Essentials.

Joerod, can you send me the settings you are using regarding the PS3/VW200 combo? I`d like to try them.

97 contrast will be too high, I bet you have very yellow whites. Xenon lamps are blue deficient.

I am at Gamma OFF (using a PS3)... I then set the PS3 to limited with super white on. The 200 I like the Manual Iris setting at 92. I do not get any black level changing and the whites are perfect. I use Standard pic with Motion flow OFF and film PJ mode either at 3 or off. That totally depends on the movie. Like for Patton ON is awesome. For newer titles or animation OFF is optimal. Of course everyone's screen will yeild different results so you should still adjust color, sharpness and brightness accordingly. I find being at or around mid setting for those seems about right. Now for color level Normal is about as correct as you can get. For movies that is perfect. But for sports I have to use WIDE with gamma 3! Motion flow HIGH and Film PJ mode either at 3 or off. I do know you get less or absolutely no motion blur while it is enabled but if the flicker is to persistent I still leave it off. I do like the extra contrast boost you get with it on though. Oh and I almost forgot black level.... I like LOW for movies and HIGH for sports... And don't forget I am an eye candy extremist so definitely experiment! ;)

I am at Gamma OFF (using a PS3)... I then set the PS3 to limited with super white on. The 200 I like the Manual Iris setting at 92. I do not get any black level changing and the whites are perfect. I use Standard pic with Motion flow OFF and film PJ mode either at 3 or off. ...

Great input. Will try changing to superwhite on and adjust PJ one of the user settings. Thx!

Let me know what you think. :)

We watched 10,000 B.C. and my family actually really liked it! :eek: Then they watched Sea Monsters and liked that one to. I am using my VW200 with a VP50 pro these days and am very happy with the even more sharper (and detailed) picture I am getting. I am still anxious to try the new Pioneer 51 when it comes out soon. Just to test out the deep color "trick" because I am still very happy with my PS3. In fact, no matter what I am keep the PS3 involved in my main set up!

Hi Joe,
What made you change from the Crystailo II VPS3100 to the VP50 Pro? Does it look better on the VP200 than the 3100 did?

I like the fact that the 50 pro will be able to pass the deep color (which I know won't be out for awhile still)... But the newer Pioneer Blu ray units will have a deep color "trick" which the 3100 (or any of the PMS models) will not be able to pass since they are not HDMI 1.3. I really like my 3100 but I want to be more future ready. And every unit in my set up is HDMI 1.3 except the 3100. As a VP they are both very close but I will give the edge to the 50 pro because it makes the picture even more sharper! And not just by a little. Even DirecTV HD looks more clean. The 50 pro also has mosquito (when set to LOW) which helps a lot. When I was watching a baseball game the other day there was a little noise around the score graphics but when I turned on Mosquito to LOW it was completely gone! And the rest of the picture looked the exact same. I do like the GUI of the crystalio IIs but am sold on the 50 pro as being the best for my set up. ANd next month when I put the new Pioneer 51 into the mix (I will always keep my trusty PS3 in there) I will get to see just how much better it is than the 3100... The VW200/VP50pro is a great combo!

Thanks Joerod, I will try Manual Iris set to 92 with black level set to low.
I have found that leaving Auto Iris, Motion Flow, Gamma, Film Mode and Black Level set to OFF gives me the most natural picture when watching BD movies 1080/24 using the PS3.
One point, I have set the PS3 to RGB instead of Automatic to match my Denon AVR-5308 that I have set to RGB either and that way I get video input and output in the Denon reading 1080/24 RGB 4:4:4 pixel depth 12 bit. If I set the PS3 to automatic I get 1080/24 YCC 4:2:2 pixel depth ....
So, I set everything to RGB and leave RGB limited and YCC Super White ON.

I will make the changes you suggested and reply latter.

Please do so. I am curious to see if you like some of the settings... :)

Hi Joe,
OK, fine. Thanks for the info.
Don't know how my VW200 could look any better than it does now with the 3100.
You are right about the 3100 GUI, Crystailo did a nice job on that.
Will stick with the 3100 until the "deep color" trick comes on line.
I have a friend that likes to point out the impurities in the sound of his high end audio system, or points out problems with the picture on my projectors.
I just like to sit back and enjoy the picture. Guess that I just don't see or hear as well as he does.
The only upgrade that I may do down the road is a new screen with a little more gain. But for now, I am enjoying my VW200. It was a worth while upgrade from the VW100.

Oh I really liked the 3100 with my 200. Have you tried the High Ire Gamma trick. It really does give the picture a nice pop without sacrificing black level. Just go into the 3100's menu and under gamma select High IRE and then adjust it to either 8 or 10. See what you think. I do miss that with the 50 pro but have been able to get it very close my taking the gamma to .09. Anyway, if it weren't for Deep Color or Pioneer's new color trick then I would have happily stayed with the 3100. I just like to play with new toys! :)

Hi Joe,
Ok, I'll give it a try.
What is "Pioneer's new color trick"?

Sparing you from having to read to much of the thread (has went to the crapper lately) it is them doing an upconversion on the color. It will send 12 bit instead of 8 bit or 10 bit for all of its discs. It could help with color banding issues but I am more anxious to see what it does to the Blu ray titles. Since my entire set up is deep color friendly I am anxious to try it out. I think they quoted some insanely high number of color it will do when compared to the norm. Should be interesting to see... :)

Thanks for the info. Guess this "Deep Color" mode will be the next level of improvement for HT's.

Possibly. The jury is definitely still out on that one...

Guys,

I started with the Joerod tips and ended up with the VW-200`s Auto Iris set to OFF, Contrast set to 90, Brightness set to 51 with Black Level set to High. I also kept the Motion Flow set to Low. I`ve got a fantastic deep black with excellent details near black with Gamma 1!

I started a comparison and calibration between the PS3 and the Denon BD2500 using my AVR5803. I set the BD2500 to RGB Normal, scale to 1080p.24. This time, the VW200 gor dead right colors using the VE pattern with Color set to 51 instead of 57 using the PS3. Also, I set the Auto Iris OFF, Black Level Low and Gamma 1. Contrast 90 and Brightness 51 to match the patterns. Motion Flow to Low gives me a nice smooth camera movement.

Denon 2500 gave me 1080p/24 with RGB 4:4:4 and Pixel depth 12 Bit instead of the 10 Bit I got with PS3!

When I set the PS3 to force a RGB signal I get 10 bit Pixel Depth and when I set it to auto I get YCC 4:2:2 10 bit.

But the PS3 is faster to read and the difference in color is very small. But there is a difference!

I will keep experimenting and comparing the results. But the 2500 seems to be a better Blu-Ray player regarding color. But speed is another matter.

What kind of screen are you guy's using? Are you happy with it?

A Vutec SilverStar with a Carada Masquerade Masking System. :)

What kind of screen are you guy's using? Are you happy with it?

I'm using a Vutec SilverStar 123" and jealous regarding masking system.

I did like my SS a lot before I got the masking system. But now that I have had it I am not sure I could view movies without one! :eek:

Just thought I would add a few screenshots. Believe me, I do not believe in screenshots. I just am giving in to the pressure! :D

A couple more football...

A couple more football...

Joe,

It's great. I have room for a masking system, except ony the black frame/bezel clearance of the top of the screen itself. My SS is but up against the ceiling.

Joe,

It's great. I have room for a masking system, except ony the black frame/bezel clearance of the top of the screen itself. My SS is but up against the ceiling.

Why Mask when you can anamorphic Lens It :D

Here is a good example of the Masking System at work. The first pic shows it down and you can see the pause symbol. The second shows how good it works. I left the pause symbol partially viewable so you can see just how good it works. :)

Why Mask when you can anamorphic Lens It :D

Now I need to know more about how you are doing that with a 200

Now I need to know more about how you are doing that with a 200

Anamorphic Lenses work with any PJ if you don't mind
spending more than the cost of the PJ for the Lens.

Anamorphic Lenses work with any PJ if you don't mind
spending more than the cost of the PJ for the Lens.

I was just wondering if Joe had a specific/automated setup that he liked with our mutual 200 + SS setup.

With more and more 1080p proper aspect ratio software, I think the investment (despite our love of new toys and filled basements) would have minimal returns... :o

I do have separate settings I use for 1080p/23.98 and 1080p/60. And of course 1080i/60... I use a VP50 pro to help optimize my pic Q.

I do have separate settings I use for 1080p/23.98 and 1080p/60. And of course 1080i/60... I use a VP50 pro to help optimize my pic Q.

Joe,

Do you have a panamorph or another anamorphic lense setup?

Joe,

Do you have a panamorph or another anamorphic lense setup?

If he HAD one - Why would he need a masking system :confused:

Doc is right. I just use my regular lens that came with the 200. I am happy with my results. Maybe in my next set up in a different home I would try one...

My best results so far, Every tricks disabled including Gamma, Auto Iris, Motion Flow, Film Mode, etc... receiving through HDMI 1080p 24fps from Denon DVD2500BTCI set to RGB. Normal. Deep Color to AUTO. I get RGB 4;4;4 12 BIT and an fantastic image with no flickering and color set to 51 matching the VE patterns. Brightness set to 50 and Contrast reduced to 80 even not matching VE pattern ( needs 97 to get one step bellow white crush). Anyone using this combo out there please send me your thoughts.

That is very close to where I am at. I am using a VP50pro and sending 12 bit color as well. I can't wait to try the new Pioneer to see if their new color trick works! I do use Manual Iris set at 92... Other than that we are on the same page... :)

If he HAD one - Why would he need a masking system :confused:
I'm missing something Hank why these would be mutually exclusive. I would never watch anything that was height:width aspect correct (I hate oval circles either horizontal or vertical).

I'm missing something Hank why these would be mutually exclusive. I would never watch anything that was height:width aspect correct (I hate oval circles either horizontal or vertical).

You are not missing anything. You still would optimally want to use a masking sytem with an anamorphic lens, just one to expand the width of the picture rather than compress the height.

And, although the lenses can be expensive, there are plenty of terrific options that come nowhere close to the cost of the VW200!

I use a panamorph UH480 with my VW200 (along with a Lumagen scaler and a horizontal masking system) and the results are incredible. There are tons of 2.35:1 (and up) films being released so if you are going to spring for a scaler and a masking screen, why not go all the way and get the lens too? Check out the Panamorph UH380 sale currently running, just a bit less than the cost of a PJ!!!

You are not missing anything. You still would optimally want to use a masking sytem with an anamorphic lens, just one to expand the width of the picture rather than compress the height.

And, although the lenses can be expensive, there are plenty of terrific options that come nowhere close to the cost of the VW200!

I use a panamorph UH480 with my VW200 (along with a Lumagen scaler and a horizontal masking system) and the results are incredible. There are tons of 2.35:1 (and up) films being released so if you are going to spring for a scaler and a masking screen, why not go all the way and get the lens too? Check out the Panamorph UH380 sale currently running, just a bit less than the cost of a PJ!!!

Excellent thanks! Very appreciated.

Excellent thanks! Very appreciated.

Tim - Did you order the UH480 Yet http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif

Tim - Did you order the UH480 Yet http://www.rx8web.com/smilies/bouncy.gif

I'm balancing that, a masking system, a VP50PRO w/ HD-SDI, and a converted Sony S550 or Pio Blu equivalent for HD-SDI. Oh... and a bottoms up masking system :o

I just ordered (and it shipped already) the new Sony s350 Blu ray unit. I figure why not. I can use an extra unit somewhere else when the Pioneer 51 comes out... :)

Proabably basics, but remember, if you go with a horizontal expansion lens then the masking system will work horizontally (panels will drop down that mask the sides but leave you with a 'constant height'), wheras with a vertical compression lens the masking system will work vertically (panels will mask the top and bottom but leave you with a 'constant width'). IMO, if you have the room width, HE is the way to go.

Proabably basics, but remember, if you go with a horizontal expansion lens then the masking system will work horizontally (panels will drop down that mask the sides but leave you with a 'constant height'), wheras with a vertical compression lens the masking system will work vertically (panels will mask the top and bottom but leave you with a 'constant width'). IMO, if you have the room width, HE is the way to go.

Alas, the clue bird has better landed for me. A cinecurve would be perfect and I hat to say it but I can probably squeeze 2 feet on either side (spoace wise and projectable image) of my 123" Silverstar, but I don't know if that puts me in the right ballpark.

Now I'm seeing the specs. 122" will fit very comfortable, about a foot on either side and drop > foot from bottom. Now the VistaVision 130" is probably a better match, but an undertaking of any change ought to include a curved screen :)

Now I'm seeing the specs. 122" will fit very comfortable, about a foot on either side and drop > foot from bottom. Now the VistaVision 130" is probably a better match, but an undertaking of any change ought to include a curved screen :)

Others may certainly feel differently, but when I looked at curved versus flat screens the differences were quite minor and for me not worth the considerable difference in cost. If your flat screen has a proper light-absorbing border, the slight curve to the side edges is completely not noticable.

I have to use almost 36 ft of HDMI cable from my BluRay to the VW200. I notice from time to time a certain difficulty the VW200 has to catch up the images on movement resulting in some brief interruptions. Do you think I need some sort of cable booster or equalizer to avoid this effect? 36ft is too much to HDMI signal? Everybody keep telling me that digital signal do not becomes week with cable lenght but simply disapears. Is all or nothing with 0 and 1. Is that right?

That is correct. I use two 35 foot HDMI cables to my 200. I do use a Gefen 141 HDMI booster which works very well. I have never lost sync or had any lip sync errors. I also put them after my VP and not close to my PJ like their manual says. I contacted them and they said either way should get you the same result. Now there are cheaper boosters that work because I do use a couple other cheaper ones for my other areas (Wife's Bar/Kid's playroom) that work fine for their LCDTVs. I just wanted to make sure I had a really good one capable of handling 1080p/24...

Thanks Joerod, I will try it. What cable do you use with this lenght?

I have two Monoprice cables, A monster HDMI400 and their new Monster 1000 cable (it was given to me as a gift).... I will say all of them are reliable. I have not had HDMI handshaking issues with any of them. Now I did have sparklies and handshaking issues with a bettercables.com HDMI cable (35 foot)...

Joerod, bingo! I put an Octava HDMI switch with 6.75 Gbps capacity and amplification. No more interruptions in the signal. In fact, now I can see the small distortion the Motion Flow set to HIGH causes when dealing with movies.

My new tweak was to set Auto Iris to auto 1 and reduce contrast to 80. Now I am getting a real black background and no more white visible changes. I also set Deep Color to ON. Color set to 54 and Hue to 50 make the VE color pattern perfect despite using blue, green or red filter! Brightness set to 53, leaving the bellow black bars a little visible gives me the best details in dark scenes using Auto 1 Auto Iris.

I set the PS3 to YCrCb to be able to see bellow black, set the AVR5308CI also to YCrCb and I am still reading Pixel Depth 12 BIT 4:4:4 YCrCb. The image now is crystal clear.

Doing that has disabled Gamma and Black level adjusts in the VW200. I think Deep Color set to ON does that. Any opinion?

I am very happy with these settings. I am using Motion Flow set to LOW and not noticing any distortions. Only when I set it to HIGH I get distortions around moving objects when projecting movies.

Are you using Motion Flow to watch movies?

PS3 is giving me a very good upscaling to 1080/60 with regular DVDs setting its noise filters to +2. Very good indeed!

Joerod, bingo! I put an Octava HDMI switch with 6.75 Gbps capacity and amplification. No more interruptions in the signal. In fact, now I can see the small distortion the Motion Flow set to HIGH causes when dealing with movies.

My new tweak was to set Auto Iris to auto 1 and reduce contrast to 80. Now I am getting a real black background and no more white visible changes. I also set Deep Color to ON. Color set to 54 and Hue to 50 make the VE color pattern perfect despite using blue, green or red filter! Brightness set to 53, leaving the bellow black bars a little visible gives me the best details in dark scenes using Auto 1 Auto Iris.

I set the PS3 to YCrCb to be able to see bellow black, set the AVR5308CI also to YCrCb and I am still reading Pixel Depth 12 BIT 4:4:4 YCrCb. The image now is crystal clear.

Doing that has disabled Gamma and Black level adjusts in the VW200. I think Deep Color set to ON does that. Any opinion?

I am very happy with these settings. I am using Motion Flow set to LOW and not noticing any distortions. Only when I set it to HIGH I get distortions around moving objects when projecting movies.

Are you using Motion Flow to watch movies?

PS3 is giving me a very good upscaling to 1080/60 with regular DVDs setting its noise filters to +2. Very good indeed!

vemaneol,

Trying to dupe your settings in User 3. Interesting variation from my normal settings, but picture somewhat muted.

Couple questions on your other settings:
Film Mode?
NR (assume you were talking PS3 not projector)
Sharpness
Color Temp
Color Space (is that what you meant by deep color or xv.color?)


I'm wondering how you are getting locked Gamma & Black Level (I'm not), although Gamma off suprisingly seems to be the best setting with the other settings.

Here is a pic from The Ruins Blu-ray... It shows my latest settings at work. :)

Joerod,

Trying to dupe your settings in User 3. Interesting variation from my normal settings, but picture somewhat muted. - I`ve tried your settings but as I am getting deeper blacks with AutoIris set to 1 without disturbance...

I still don`t know your settings to Contrast, Sharpness and brightness. But I am using a white 1.0 gain screen.

Couple questions on your other settings:
Film Mode? OFF. If I set to other position I get minor flickering visible with the patterns and static image. Like I see when I set Film Projection to any position but OFF.

NR (assume you were talking PS3 not projector). Yes. When watching regular DVDs I set the PS3 noise filters to +2. I never use any noise reduction on the VW200. NR and DRC modes always set to OFF. Black Level and Gamma set to OFF but when I use the PS3 (YCrCb readings they are locked)

Sharpness: 30. Too much?

Color Temp: Middle. White is not blue nor red.

Color Space (is that what you meant by deep color or xv.color?) No, color space set to normal and Deep Color (x.v.Color) set to ON.


I'm wondering how you are getting locked Gamma & Black Level (I'm not), although Gamma off surprisingly seems to be the best setting with the other settings.

The best image I was able to get until now is:

BluRay:
1) Source: Denon BT2500CI set to RGB, limited RGB, 1080/24, Pure Digital, Deep Color to Auto (It seems to handshake with the VW200 set to Deep Color and activating 12BIT Pixel Depth)

2) AVRDenon 5308CI set to OFF on video conversion and RGB on video signal. That Way I am able to read on HDMI info: RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12BIT
I also leave the Enhancer set to 0 like the other Theranex settings on the AVR5308CI.

3) Octava HDMI Switch to amplify the HDMI signal and avoid signal failures.

4) VW200 set to Auto Iris 1, Motion Flow to LOW, Contrast to 80 (although to match the VE pattern I should set it to 94 but it blows with Auto 1) , Brightness to 52, Sharpness to 30, Color to 54, Hue to 50, Deep Color to ON. Everything else to OFF.

Note that when I use the PS3 to watch BluRay I can not set the PS3 to RGB without the bars bellow black on the VE BluRay disappear. I can only proper calibrate the pattern (brightness) when I set the PS3 video signal to AUTO. That way, I get the same results with the settings on the VW200 but I cannot get RGB reading in the AVR5308CI. All I get is YCrCb 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12 BIT.

Using PS3 to reproduce regular DVDs matches the same settings in the VW200 using VE DVD and also YCrCb 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12 BIT.

Any visible difference between RGB and YCrCb 4:4:4 12BIT so far? NONE!

But why I get black crush setting the PS3 to RGB I don`t have a clue!

Try to do this with PS3/VW200 and check for yourself.

As I have this tweaking disease, I will keep experimenting. If you have further suggestions tell me.

There are just 03 ISF certified representatives here in Sao Paulo, Brazil and their prices are sky high! So DIY is the way to go!

Well I do use Gamma OFF. Contrast is at 92 with the Iris in Manul mode. Brightness is at 50 and sharpness is at 40. Motionflow is OFF. Black Level LOW. I also have color on Normal and sometimes Wide (depends on what I am watching)... As for Color Temp I am using Custom 2... Which is close to the middle except the gain is up for all 3 colors. Try it...

Also remember I am using a VP50pro which I have really going out at default settings. I do use the Fine Edge and Edge Enhancement a little to make my picture more crisp. And for Satelite I have Mosquito set to Low. Other than that I am pretty much making most adjustments thru the PJ... Oh and I also take my green offset down a notch on the 50pro.

I don't think I left anything out. I will go over my setings tonite and see if I listed everything. :)

Joerod,
I will try your settings to compare.
Do you know why when setting the PS3 to RGB makes the bellow-black bars desappear?
Also try to set the x.v.color ON in the VW200 and check if the Gamma and Black Level disabled.

By the way, now I am reading RGB and YCrCb 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 8 BIT playing DVDs and Blu-Ray Discs despite having the x.v.color ON. But when I the PS3 wallpaper or background appears, I am back to 12 BIT Pixel depth!

I have to say I never turned the x.v. color to ON. I figured I have no source sending it so why engage it? I plan to later this month with the new Pioneer 51FD to see if it makes a difference. So I should turn my VP50 pro to 4:4:4 YCrCB and then maybe turn the x.v. color to ON. I will report back later... :)

Joe looking forward to hearing what you think once this becomes avail. Regardless if its accurate or not I think people are ether going to like it or not.

Joerod, once more thanks for the tip! I used the standard mode of the VW200 to use your settings and disabled the x.v. color. Using User2 and Iris on manual 92 combined with contrast 92, brightness 50, Black level LOW. Motion Flow LOW, sharpness 40 and everything else OFF do really made a huge improvement! Color set to 55.

Once again with this settings I am getting YCrCb 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12BIT using PS3 and RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12 BIT using Denon 2500BT. Amazing image from Blu-Ray and also from DVD! I will stick to these settings.

Main difference I felt was deeper blacks and sharper images.

I am using Monster Power AVS2000 as power stabilizer and Panamax Max5510 and conditioner. What kind of power conditioning are you using?

Glad to read you like it. :) I am using a Panamax 7500 pro. It works well and you can see it in my rack in this pic.

As for the x.v. color I do plan to try it with the Pioneer to see if there is a difference... More to come! :D

Joerod,

Trying to dupe your settings in User 3. Interesting variation from my normal settings, but picture somewhat muted. - I`ve tried your settings but as I am getting deeper blacks with AutoIris set to 1 without disturbance...

I still don`t know your settings to Contrast, Sharpness and brightness. But I am using a white 1.0 gain screen.

Couple questions on your other settings:
Film Mode? OFF. If I set to other position I get minor flickering visible with the patterns and static image. Like I see when I set Film Projection to any position but OFF.

NR (assume you were talking PS3 not projector). Yes. When watching regular DVDs I set the PS3 noise filters to +2. I never use any noise reduction on the VW200. NR and DRC modes always set to OFF. Black Level and Gamma set to OFF but when I use the PS3 (YCrCb readings they are locked)

Sharpness: 30. Too much?

Color Temp: Middle. White is not blue nor red.

Color Space (is that what you meant by deep color or xv.color?) No, color space set to normal and Deep Color (x.v.Color) set to ON.


I'm wondering how you are getting locked Gamma & Black Level (I'm not), although Gamma off surprisingly seems to be the best setting with the other settings.

The best image I was able to get until now is:

BluRay:
1) Source: Denon BT2500CI set to RGB, limited RGB, 1080/24, Pure Digital, Deep Color to Auto (It seems to handshake with the VW200 set to Deep Color and activating 12BIT Pixel Depth)

2) AVRDenon 5308CI set to OFF on video conversion and RGB on video signal. That Way I am able to read on HDMI info: RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12BIT
I also leave the Enhancer set to 0 like the other Theranex settings on the AVR5308CI.

3) Octava HDMI Switch to amplify the HDMI signal and avoid signal failures.

4) VW200 set to Auto Iris 1, Motion Flow to LOW, Contrast to 80 (although to match the VE pattern I should set it to 94 but it blows with Auto 1) , Brightness to 52, Sharpness to 30, Color to 54, Hue to 50, Deep Color to ON. Everything else to OFF.

Note that when I use the PS3 to watch BluRay I can not set the PS3 to RGB without the bars bellow black on the VE BluRay disappear. I can only proper calibrate the pattern (brightness) when I set the PS3 video signal to AUTO. That way, I get the same results with the settings on the VW200 but I cannot get RGB reading in the AVR5308CI. All I get is YCrCb 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12 BIT.

Using PS3 to reproduce regular DVDs matches the same settings in the VW200 using VE DVD and also YCrCb 4:4:4 Pixel Depth 12 BIT.

Any visible difference between RGB and YCrCb 4:4:4 12BIT so far? NONE!

But why I get black crush setting the PS3 to RGB I don`t have a clue!

Try to do this with PS3/VW200 and check for yourself.

As I have this tweaking disease, I will keep experimenting. If you have further suggestions tell me.

There are just 03 ISF certified representatives here in Sao Paulo, Brazil and their prices are sky high! So DIY is the way to go!

Thanks very much.

Joe,

Maybe you could edit the first post and add your "primary" user settings (including details like above) and also paste in vermanoel's more recent settings.

Joerod,

Do you know if there are going to be any differences in the Sony BDP550 versus the Pioneer 51FD?

Joerod,

How do you have the VP50 Pro configured in your system? In other words, what sources, Sat HDTV, Blu-Ray, Etc. are you running through the VP50 Pro, and where is it in the chain? Thanks in advance.

I use the VP50pro at the end of my chain. I want the 50pro to be the last link before my PJ. I send Blu-ray, HD DVD, DirecTV and DTHEATER into it. Hope this helps...

Just updated my initial post with July, 2008 settings... :)

Oh and for the Sony 550 and Pioneer as of now it would be anyone's guess. I don't have any of them yet (not out yet) so I won't venture a guess. If the 51FD's 36 bit color trick works then I'd bet the farm on it... ;)

If the VP50 Pro is the last link in the chain, does that mean that you have an AVR that Blu-Ray, DVD, DirectTV, etc. are plugged into with HDMI, or Component and then whatever source you select on your AVR is then sent out via HDMI to the VP50 Pro which then does it's thing and plugs into the HDMI (in) on the Sony VPL-VW200. The reason I am asking is that I have my PS3, BDP S1, Dish VIP 622 DVR all hooked into a Sony DA5300ES as an AVR (Pre-amp) with a Sunfire 7400 running my 7.2 speaker system. The Sony DA5300ES has just one HDMI cable running to the VPL -VW200. I am trying to decide if the iScan VP50 Pro is really going to gain me that much over what I have currently and I am trying to gauge how easily it is connected into the chain of the above system. Right now if I read you correctly, I would put the VP50 Pro right next to the VPL-VW200 and run everything through the DA5300ES first and then run the selected source from the DA5300ES via HDMI to the VP50 Pro and then to the VPL-VW200. I am guessing the satelite HDTV and SD look markedly better with the VP50 Pro but what about Blu-Ray and other sources. Does it actually improve Blu-Ray significantly? I have read a bunch of things on the Internet about the VP50 Pro, but I am still foggy about how it would actually be hooked up in my system.

I apologize. I should have been more detailed. You are correct though. I run everything (HDMI) into my 885 PRE/PRO then from there is goes into my VP50pro. I will point out that it is much easier that way. Whatever resolution I send into the 50pro it adjusts to my settings accordingly. I do not have to do a thing now. Just set it and forget it. :)

Okay, well that is encouraging. At least now I understand how it would be put into my system. Lastly, how much better is the the PQ provided by the VP 50 Pro with your DirectTV HD and SD signals? Does it make any real difference with Blu-Ray versus just driving Blu-Ray without the VP 50 Pro?

Oh no, you want Blu-ray to go into the 50pro. You can easily tell the difference in the picture because it is much more crisp. The adjustments you can make with the 50pro will help you tweak your image to the next level. I am seeing the sharpest picture I have seen to date becasue of the 50pro. As for DirecTV is also makes it much better. Sharper and cleaner. Are you reading my posts in the 50pro thread? I get into more details over there. Anyway, to sum it up sometimes when watching sports I get a little noise around the scorebox. With the 50pro I just have Mosquito NR to LOW and it is gone. Plus the rest of the picture is perfectly intact. I don't use Mosq. for Blu-ray or HD DVD though... I have been very happy with the VW200/50pro combo. I will post a few more screen shots soon but these are from recently using a Samsung 1500 thru the 50pro... I will post a few more when the Pioneer units comes out... :)

I have read some of the 120 plus pages on the VP50 Pro, but it was pretty obvious that most of the systems over there were quite a bit different than my setup. On the other hand your set-up looked to be quite close to mine. I guess I will order one and plug it in via HDMI between the Sony DA5300ES and the Sony VPL-VW200. That way all the sound is processed and output from the Sony DA5300ES and just the picture will go through the VP50 Pro and on to the Sony VW200. And based on your experience, it should improve the picture on all the sources that I send it through the Sony DA5300ES. Thanks Joerod, hopefully the VP50 Pro will bring satelite HDTV up a notch or two, I would be satisfied with that. If it really does improve Blu-Ray then that would be a bonus. I already have Blu-ray dialed in pretty well. My screen is a Hi-Power 120 inch, so like your SS, which by the way was my first choice for a screen but was vetoed by the Fuhrer, she did not want a fixed screen in the room which is multi-purpose. Anyway, I can see large or small improvements pretty easily on my screen, due to its size.

It would definitely improve SAT and help optimize Blu-ray and HD DVD. And with a larger screen you will notice even slight improvements. :)

Joe, Are you saying not to run the Blu-Ray through the DA5300ES?

JMAUSGP, Does the DA5300ES have a pass through mode for HDMI so the signal doesn't get processed?

I was thinking of retiring my Denon AVR-5700 and picking up the Sony as it does 7.1 and has so many HDMI inputs. Then Just running the output the Crystailo II.

Oh no, if your receiver does the advanced codecs then you should go thru it first. Then have the output go into the VP50 or C2. That is what I have done for awhile now. I use the 885 pro to switch and since it just passes resolution it works fine. I lose nothing going into it first with Blu-ray and HD DVD. I do send the 360 and PS3 into the VP50pro first then use the 50pro's optical out to go into my 885 pre/pro. Hope this is not to confusing... :)

Ok, Fine joe.
What is an 885/pre/pro?
Is the Sony DA5300ES a good unit to get? It seems to have most every IN and Out that I would ever need. The only thing that they didn't put on it is a switched AC outlet that I would need to fire up the Sub's. Will have to build a AC switch box that will run off of the 12 volt trigger from the sony to key a solid state switch and power up the subs.

The 885 pro is an Onkyo pre/pro. It is a great buy for the money. It does HDMI 1.3, supports deep color, does the advanced audio codecs and works great with 1080p/24. It is not a receiver, their 805, 875 and 905 are similar.

Hi Joe,
Thanks for the info. The 905 looks like it will do everything I need. It also has a switched AC outlet.

I love the 905. It is a great receiver that has many good features. My favorite sound mode is Ultra2 Cinema... ;)

Hi Joe,
Was reading the AVS thread on the Onkyo 905. They talk about popping noise issues when decoding DTS. They also talk about the Reon video processor being a little soft looking. I haven't read all 246 pages of this thread yet. You seem to know this receiver so could you tell me what you know about issues with the 905? The thread talks about downloading the latest firmware for the receiver and DSP processors. I'm sure that the current units have the latest firmware though. Are there any other receivers that you recommend? There is the Denon 4308CI, the Sony 5300ES, Yamaha....
So many choices.

Those issues have all been resolved with firmware updates. If you get a brand new one (like say from Amazon) they come with the latest already installed. The others I consider second best maninly because I am a big fan of Ultra2 Cinema sound for 5.1 sources and the receiver has to be THX Ultra2 certified to do that. The others (including the denon) are not...

Ok, Fine Joe,
Then you are saying that they solved the "soft video" issue with the Reon?
The 4308CI didn't have THX Ultra2, but the Denon AVR-5308CI did. But what a price to pay, 5.5k msrp, 3.8k street. A lot to spend when the 905 is about 1.2k. The 5308 has the Silicon Optix Realta. Does the 50 pro use it also? Guess the way to go would be using the 905/50 pro combo, would not cost as much as ths Denon 5308.
The one thing that I liked about the Denon was the internet connection for downloading updates, but how often would need it. Was thinking about waiting for the Onkyo 906, but don't want to be on the bleeding edge of technology and having to be a beta tester for onkyo.
Thanks for all of your help. I want to make the right choice the 1st time.

I'd get the 905 over them in a heartbeat. I don't use the REON since we have higher end VPs so you probably won't either. But yes, there is no soft picture using the REON on the 905 these days anyhow. For advanced codecs and Ultra2 Cinema sound it is well worth it. Even the 805 unit is an awesome buy! ;)

Now I'm confused. Are you saying not to run all of my video sources through the 905, but directly to the C2, or will the 905 work as a passive switcher without degrading the video and allow the C2 do the processing ?
Also, does the 50 pro use the Silicon Optix Realta chip?

Thanks for the off line info Joe.

Hey no problem. :) To clarify from your last question I was saying to run sources thru the 905 then have the HDMI out of the 905 go into your VP. That way you get to have Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD sound. Then the VP can take care of the picture right before it sends it to your PJ. ;)

VW200 questions.
1) Why the VW200 disables the black level and Gamma adjusts when you set the x.v. Color to ON? I cannot see any difference regarding color palette.
2) Why the Motion Flow adjust gives a beautiful effect to 1080p 60fps when set to high or low and gives terrible artifacts to image in motion when applied to 1080p 24fps Blu-Ray discs? Try with a Blu-Ray show 1080p 60fps and it works flawlessly. Now change to a Blu-Ray movie 1080p 24fps and you will see a great degradation in the signal regarding moving objects and people. It seems to me that it works with 60Hz when upsampling to 120Hz but gives terrible results upsampling 24Hz to 96Hz! Try it and see for yourselves.

Following these facts,when watching DVDs and Blu-Ray concerts 1080p/60fps I set the x.v. Color to OFF, used Joerod`s settings and engaged Motion Flow to High (TV Series) or Low (Movies). Terrific image!!!

When watching Blu-Ray 1080p/24fps I use the same settings except Motion Flow. Turn it off!

The other mystery remains why when using the PS-3 as the image source I get YCrCb 12 Bit Pixel Depth and when using Denon`s BT2500CI I get RGB 12 Bit Pixel Depth. I cannot see any difference but the color signal changes.
PS-3 set to AUTO. If you set it to RGB you will get black crush!

Curious, I find motion-flow to have a similar effect on 1080p60 and 1080p24. In both cases I have it set to low. I have had this PJ for a while and it is a bit of time since I played around with it, but would be interested to know a bit more about all your settings?

I do find that motionflow is more subtle on video-sourced material than film-sourced? Perhaps this is what you are seeing?

Well for one there is no point in turning on the x.v. color on the 200 yet. I think we are only supposed to turn that on when a source comes in with it. I think it disables those other settings because it is expecting the source to have them. I will definitely turn it on when I send the 36bit color from the Pioneer 51FD soon...

Joerod,

One thing I was thinking about this weekend. My Sony DA5300ES does upscale all my sources to 1080P already. But if I read you correctly, you believe that the VP50 Pro will still make a big difference in the PQ of the Sony VPL-VW200.

Joerod,

One thing I was thinking about this weekend. My Sony DA5300ES does upscale all my sources to 1080P already. But if I read you correctly, you believe that the VP50 Pro will still make a big difference in the PQ of the Sony VPL-VW200.

Current best-in-class outboard video processors give you a level of adjustment and performance that will certainly exceed the scaling capabilities built into players or projectors. These would include the Lumagen Radiance, the VP50 and Crystalio II ...

Oh yeah. That is exactly how I would put it. I have had most of the current VPs on the market and all of them offer next level pic Q. You can achieve a much sharper, cleaner image using a good VP. You should definitely audition one.

As a new and very happy owner of a VW200 for just a couple of weeks there is one thing, for me, that would take this projector to the next level: The User 1,2,3 settings should memorize/recall the lens zoom and shift settings.

I'm still working on taking the "rocket science" out of playing a Blu-Ray from the hard drive of my HTPC. So far, jockeying a universal remote + keyboard + Vista + mounting movies onto virtual drives and finally, making lens adjustments for 2.35:1 is just one more thing for my technically challenged family to master.

The remote zoom/shift/focus is a blessing for me as my projector is behind the rear wall of my home theater but I would love for Sony to take the next logical step and automate this process with some position encoders and memory settings.

It's somehow ironic that I went to the trouble to "bury" the projector because my previous Epson was loud and had a lot of light leakage and now that I own the VW200 I hate to have buried it behind a wall. It's so quiet, there's no light leakage and it's beautiful! I'm glad to have made the jump.

As a new and very happy owner of a VW200 for just a couple of weeks

Welcome to the club!

I second that! Welcome!!! :)

Hi Guys

The VW200 has been going merrily here for some months now with nearly 800 hours clocked up.

Yesterday I connected the laptop (an older HP XE3 F3953H) for the first time usinf a SVGA 15 cable, but have struck a problem which I cannot find the answer to.

20% of the bottom of the picture is cut off which looks like a blanking problem. Went to the installation menu but the bottom blanking is set to 0. Increasing that merely blanks off more, noy less and there seems no provision for negative inputs.

I've been through every other menu and adjustment I could find but no joy.

All suggestions gratefully received.

TIA

John ("Enjoying" winter here down under!)

Joerod,

When you are watching Satellite HDTV on your VPL-VW200, what scalling are you sending it from the Edge? 1080P 60hz or 24hz?

Definitely 60 for DirecTV and 24 for Blu-ray and HD DVD...

I found an article on Audioholics explaining everything regarding RGB x YCbCr and Deep Color.

Conclusion:

1) Set everything to YCbCr with limited range (DVD, Blu-Ray, Receiver, PJ).
2) Deep Color will disable all YCbCr or RGB settings. So, turn it off!!!!
3) According to Audioholics, Blu-Ray will never see Deep Color and PS3 is the only source that supports it.

I plan to do "my take" on the 51FD from Pioneer but so far I will quickly state the PS3 has some stif competition in the color department. I also agree about the YCbCR tip at 4:4:4. When you send it in we do lose many settings that I like to tweak. Still though I do like the punch I get from RGB 0-255. I know we are not supposed to use it but I have to admit it does look good. I have been using the YCbCR with 4:4:4 and adjusting around it with great results. I am using the 51FD for adjusting since it allows many different settings... So far the Pioneer 51FD and PS3 have been my favorite Blu ray players. And yes I am at the latest "final" firmware release for the 51FD. I will also say the Denon 3800 was right there with them but for much less money I can get the same pic Q at 1080p/24...

Joe is the 51FD the one that emulates deep color?

Yes, it is. I plan to do some screenshots shortly but so far I have been very impressed with it. For the equipment I have in my set up it fits perfectly! :)

VW200 questions.
1) Why the VW200 disables the black level and Gamma adjusts when you set the x.v. Color to ON? I cannot see any difference regarding color palette.
2) Why the Motion Flow adjust gives a beautiful effect to 1080p 60fps when set to high or low and gives terrible artifacts to image in motion when applied to 1080p 24fps Blu-Ray discs? Try with a Blu-Ray show 1080p 60fps and it works flawlessly. Now change to a Blu-Ray movie 1080p 24fps and you will see a great degradation in the signal regarding moving objects and people. It seems to me that it works with 60Hz when upsampling to 120Hz but gives terrible results upsampling 24Hz to 96Hz! Try it and see for yourselves.

Following these facts,when watching DVDs and Blu-Ray concerts 1080p/60fps I set the x.v. Color to OFF, used Joerod`s settings and engaged Motion Flow to High (TV Series) or Low (Movies). Terrific image!!!

When watching Blu-Ray 1080p/24fps I use the same settings except Motion Flow. Turn it off!

The other mystery remains why when using the PS-3 as the image source I get YCrCb 12 Bit Pixel Depth and when using Denon`s BT2500CI I get RGB 12 Bit Pixel Depth. I cannot see any difference but the color signal changes.
PS-3 set to AUTO. If you set it to RGB you will get black crush!

And if i watch Blu Rays with 1080/60p instead of 24p and with MotionFlow on? Is it better as 1080/24p and MotionFlow off?

And what is with the FilmProjection feature?

And if i watch Blu Rays with 1080/60p instead of 24p and with MotionFlow on? Is it better as 1080/24p and MotionFlow off?

And what is with the FilmProjection feature?

The film projection feature give you the same 48hz flicker you see viewing film.
combined with 24hz input direct from BD gives you the ultimate film experience.

Alan hit the nail on the head. :) As for MotionFlow ON- we don't usualy use it for movies except animated or cartoons. We use it mainly on Sports. Even Madden 09' looks cool using MotionFLow! ;)

But with Film Projection the picture is darker and it seems to flicker.

Flicker emulates the old film days. It gives a nice touch when you watch Movies like Patton or any older title on Blu-ray (or SD dvd). We use Mode 3 since it is the lightest.

To me Film Projection makes picture worse because it flicks.
Motion Flow is very good to view video material (native 30 fps)because it makes movies look like video. So, I set it on HIGH to view concerts and TV Series.

To me Film Projection makes picture worse because it flicks.
Motion Flow is very good to view video material (native 30 fps)because it makes movies look like video. So, I set it on HIGH to view concerts and TV Series.

You will get very different views on this. I do not like film projection as it replicates one of the inherant shortcomings of film that bothers me - so I leave it off. While motion-flow set to high does make film look like video (and I do not see this necessarily as a bad thing) it also introduces some wierd artifacts that are difficult to describe but easy to see. I generally set it to low for film and high for video.

Just my 2 cents.

I am seeing some really good things when pairing the 200 with the new Pioneer 51FD. Mainly improvements in color. :)

I am seeing some really good things when pairing the 200 with the new Pioneer 51FD. Mainly improvements in color. :)

Wow those colors look great. Very natural. I think the combo of the xenon lamp with your equipment in the emulated deep color mode is the best you can get today. Very nice.

I am seeing some really good things when pairing the 200 with the new Pioneer 51FD. Mainly improvements in color. :)

Wow, these look great!

Where are you these days with bluray players (if I recall correctly, you did not like the Denon)? I'm getting the urge to finally upgrade from the original Sony, and while the pragmatist in me says wait until the profile 2.0 players are available - they are unlikely to add features that I will use. The impulsivist in me really wants to get a new player :)

Just ordered another VW200 for myself. Im returning back to the club again.

It's about time Alan! :)

Thanks for the compliment Alan and ca1ore. I appreciate it. :) As for Blu-ray players I currently have (besides the 51FD) the S350, sammy 1500 and Panny BD30. Not to mention a PS3 as well. I really like what I get from the 51FD. It gives me all the picture adjusting I had with the denon 3800. It wasn't that I did not like the denons. They were fine but quite honestly they were grossly overpriced. Not to mention the 3800 could not properly do 1080p/24 (which has been fixed). Still the low LFE bug is still there. I just think for the money I can Bitstream with the 51FD and then get exceptional pic Q as well. Why spend the money on the Marantz or the Denon when for 599 you can get the same performance at 1080p/24 (and better color)... ;)

I'm not sure I entirely understand what it is you are doing by 'faking' deep color from the player. Joe, your screen shots do look terrific, but what did you have to do? I assume there are some settings in the Pioneer bluray player, but did you also have to have some capability in your scaler and the projector? Obviosly we have the same PJ, but I use the Lumagen Radiance and am not sure what it needs to be able to do to get these better colors.

I have set my Denon BT2500CI to Deep Color and also the VW200 to xxYY Color and they are passing 12 BIT Color Depth despite only having 8 BIT on the Blu-Ray midia.

Anyway, PlayStatoon 3 is the best match to VW200! DVD or Blu-Ray reproduction until now!

First off everything in your chain has to be deep color (or x.v. Color) friendly. I am not sure about the Lumagen. Are they HDMI 1.3 yet? The 51FD has a High Speed HDMI transmitting feature which upconverts the color so it sends 12 bit color. This allows the player to choose from a pallete of 69 billion colors instead of 16.7 million. I have been very pleased with the results so far...

The Radiance is not HDMI 1.3 yet. although there is an upgrade expected later this year. Wasn't planning to bother but now I might. Not sure if the current version is 'deep color friendly'.

If it is not HDMI 1.3 then it can't be. That is one of the main reasons I sold my crystalio II and went to a VP with HDMI 1.3.

I just wanted to post that I am right around 1100 hours of lamp time on my 200. I plan to take it out next week and put a new one just in time for the NFL season to kick off. I am still impressed with my picture and I can say I did not experience that BIG drop off in brightness like I did with my Ruby. I will obvisouly keep my lamp and use it as a full time spare. The new one I put in I will use it until it explodes (or simply goes out) and then I can put the original back in until I get another new one...

I just wanted to post that I am right around 1100 hours of lamp time on my 200. I plan to take it out next week and put a new one just in time for the NFL season to kick off. I am still impressed with my picture and I can say I did not experience that BIG drop off in brightness like I did with my Ruby. I will obvisouly keep my lamp and use it as a full time spare. The new one I put in I will use it until it explodes (or simply goes out) and then I can put the original back in until I get another new one...

Are you going to buy an OEM unit or do some surgery and just replace the bulb? Have you heard any pros or cons with bulb-only replacement?

I thought about doing the surgery on my lamp but to be honest I really don't want to with my original lamp. I would much rather attempt to do it with my next one. I want to have a spare so at least for the first lamp I need to replace it with the entire housing. Then when my next one goes out I can attempt it with that one. In the mean time if I screw up or don't have the time to get to it right away I still have my original lamp to get me by...

If it is not HDMI 1.3 then it can't be. That is one of the main reasons I sold my crystalio II and went to a VP with HDMI 1.3.

Joe, I don't know if you are beta testing the EDGE. I never got a response from Anchor Bay (maybe because I was so critical on the Z11 ABT-0based video), but I'm going to buy one on Amazon to test with the projector. The only downside is the lack of HD-SDI as I wanted to test that with a modded 05FD.

Since I signed the NDA with DVDO I can't say much about it (if anything). ;)

Spent last night setting up my new VW200. Im back in the club :) and enjoying the image this projector throws. Very smooth, detailed with crt rich colors. Im glad to be back.

I see a few posts where you guys are talking deep color. Is that the feture the VW200 has labeled X.V. color ?

Alan, Sony called and said they need it back. I will come over and get it. :D

As I recall Deep Color/X.V Color is all the same (Sony as usual refers to it differently).

Welcome back Alan! :) Jason nailed it. I am getting great results using the 51FD with the 200. I am now adding the 05 Elite model and moving the 51 to either the family room or master bedroom! :eek: When the Pioneer's High Speed HDMI is set to on the results are at the best level of pic Q I have seen in my theater.

So then, a hypnotist could say look "x.v." into my eyes

...As I recall Deep Color/X.V Color is all the same (Sony as usual refers to it differently).I think Deep Color is the ability to suppory hgher bit depths ( 10, 12, 14,...) and x.v color (xvCC) is the larger color space?

So then, a hypnotist could say look "x.v." into my eyes

Silence amongst the crowd. :)

Joe,
Is that the Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD? What do you think of the BDP-95FD?

Only if the hypnotist had a 51FD or Elite 05. ;)

Joe,
What do you think of the BDP-95FD?

I just wanted to post that I am right around 1100 hours of lamp time on my 200. I plan to take it out next week and put a new one just in time for the NFL season to kick off. I am still impressed with my picture and I can say I did not experience that BIG drop off in brightness like I did with my Ruby. I will obvisouly keep my lamp and use it as a full time spare. The new one I put in I will use it until it explodes (or simply goes out) and then I can put the original back in until I get another new one...

Just out of curiosity what were you starting Ftl and how many Ftl do you have after 1100 hours? What size screen are you using Joe?

I have a 120.5" SS (which helps) and Carada Masquerade Masking System.

The 95FD is a solid Blu-ray player but it does not compare well when it is next to the 05 or 51. They are faster at loading, have a nicer menu system, easier to navigate and have more picture adjustment options. Not to mention the High Speed HDMI transmitting which enables the deep color or x.v. Color tricks. I would definitely get the 51 over the 95 these days and if you don't have a receiver that decodes the new HD codecs than spend a little more and grab the 05 Elite. But remember both offer the same exact pic Q over HDMI. ;)

Here is another screen shot showing The Ruins from the 05 and a couple more of my 200 (underneath) and SS with Masquarade... :)

I think Deep Color is the ability to suppory hgher bit depths ( 10, 12, 14,...) and x.v color (xvCC) is the larger color space?
You are right and Jason is wrong. "Deep Color" and "xvYCC" are two different things which however were both introduced with HDMI 1.3.

Hi Joe,
Just picked up the Pioneer BDP-05FD. WOW, Big improvement over my Sony BR! Watched Golden compass. I thought it looked good on the Sony, but hands down, a better picture on the 05, and the 7.1 sound is great!
Thanks for the recommendation.

Hi Joe,
Just picked up the Pioneer BDP-05FD. WOW, Big improvement over my Sony BR! Watched Golden compass. I thought it looked good on the Sony, but hands down, a better picture on the 05, and the 7.1 sound is great!
Thanks for the recommendation.

I did not get the big daddy ( 05FD ) but I just ordered the 51FD, Ill have it Friday. You guys have me drooling:)

I am discovering more and more about the x.v. Color on the 200. When there is a direct connection (05/51) straight into the 200 you select x.v. ON. Then you know it is engaged because you have no gamma, black level settings in the expert area of the 200's menu. Now when you go thru a VP (I can't say much due to NDA regulations) the x.v. feature is not there. I have discovered that if you go direct first, turn it to ON then go back to your VP's (depending on if it is HDMI 1.3 of course) HDMI output back to the 200 the x.v ON is still selected. Not only do my color palettes prove it but the Menu does not have the "expert" setting. I will work more with this but it is weird being in no man's land for the first time... Uncharted waters... :eek:

Does the Pioneer send Deep Color or xvYCC? According to what I read it should be Deep Color and not xvYCC, or am I wrong?

Doesn't your video processor (the one which you may not speak of) show which exact color format and bit depth the Pioneer is sending?

I still have a VP50 pro hooked up as well as the one I can't speak of. The 50 pro says 4:4:4 but I definitely can see a difference when the High Speed is turned on from the Pioneer. I know deep color and x.v. Color are different but sending the High Speed from the Pioneer engages the x.v. Color menu option (makes the other controls disappear)... I will work more on it later.

I know deep color and x.v. Color are different but sending the High Speed from the Pioneer engages the x.v. Color menu option (makes the other controls disappear)...
The menu missing the expert settings could be due to the Sony not being able to modify Deep Color data. I'd imagine that the video processing in the Sony can only handle conventional bitdepths. Not sure about the x.v. menu option, though. Can you disable/enable it when the Pioneer's Deep Color output is activated? Can you disable/enable it when the Pioneer's Deep Color output is disabled? Is this x.v. menu option only informational or can you actually change it? In the latter case do you see a difference in the image quality when you toggle the x.v. menu option in the Sony?

Thanks...

Good points. When I send in the High Speed data fro the pioneer it acts like the X.V. color is already engaged. I can't turn it off and I lose the same options when I turn it on without a true source. And when I tap the gamma or black level buttons on the remote it will say Not Applicable in the lower right corner which is the 200 saying that. I will have to play more later but again the picture is fabulous and the colors are wonderful.

Ok, thanks. One question comes to my mind right now: If you DON'T activate Deep Color in the Pioneer can you see a difference in the image quality when you toggle the x.v. setting in the Sony on/off?

That answer is no. The x.v. Color shows no difference and then you lose those picture settings. When High Speed is sent in you get more rich, deep or bolder colors. They are very good. Of course again displays will vary results but I really thnk the xenon lamp has a lot to do wth what I am seeing. SD dvds look much, much better.

That answer is no. The x.v. Color shows no difference and then you lose those picture settings. When High Speed is sent in you get more rich, deep or bolder colors. They are very good. Of course again displays will vary results but I really thnk the xenon lamp has a lot to do wth what I am seeing. SD dvds look much, much better.
To be honest I'm not sure if the VW200 is handling Pioneer's "High Speed" data correctly... :eek:

To my best knowledge the Pioneer only sends more intermediate steps in the very same color space. So you shouldn't get bolder or richer colors, but only finer gradiants etc. But what do I know? :)

Was thinking the same. The higher rate should give us extra grey scale gradients
that could help eliminate banding.
It will be interesting to see if xv is altering the color space.
This is new territory for most of us "tread where no man has gone before"

It has helped a lot with banding. Check out Corpse Bride Blu ray for one good example. I don't mean it has completely changed or added colors. It has just made them stronger so to speak. I definitely prefer them this way. I guess it is just hard to explain the look. More consistency? Whatever it is I am keeping it that way. :)

It has helped a lot with banding. Check out Corpse Bride Blu ray for one good example. I don't mean it has completely changed or added colors. It has just made them stronger so to speak.
Maybe you can do comparison photos with High Speed turned on/off? But I guess the difference is not big enough to show on such photos?

It would be very hard to show on a photo. I will try tomorrow and see if I can catch it though. We watched What Happens In Vegas tonite and I was very impressed with the overall picture. It is hard to argue against the High Speed settings. The good thing is the Pioneer units allow you to tweak the picture in terms of black level, gamma as well as a few more which is great since you cannot do it with the 200 when the x.v Color mode is engaged...

I really do feel the xenon lamp helps with the excellent color results I get and having this new color trick from Pioneer helps prove it... :)

Joe Im with you on the Xenon. Ill have my 51 today as long as the UPS truck does not go off the road:)

Let's hope he obeys all traffic signals. :)

Alan,
Did you get your new toy today?

He's probably busy with it. :)

That's what I am thinking.
New VW200 and 51FD. Got to watch all of the Blu-Ray's again!

Yup, I was testing most of the evening. I did not get to set this up until early evening.
First, this player is one sweat looking piece of equipment. The 51 makes everything else in my rack
look like it needs a face lift:) This thing is loaded with features to back up its looks.
Ok down to the nitty gritty. I did purchase 2 high speed HDMI cables. There is so much confusion over this topic on the forum with no clear answers, I did not want to chance something not working using my current cables. Well I got the same performance regardless what cable I used but my runs are fairly short, 6 feet.
I have to be honest here, the color to my eyes is so saturated from the sony it is hard to see any significant difference. If its there & it could be, it is small. Im not saying there is no difference its just hard to visually nail down whats going on. I ran the player both through the VP50pro and direct to the VW200 and in both case the outcome was the same. I did compare the 12 bit output with some scenes known for banding and saw a small difference but I did notice if I choose 4:2:2 the banding was really bad and had some colors in it. Very strange. 4:4:4 output at 12 bit gave the best image. By the way I was comparing this to my HD SDI modified Sony player. HD SDI may have an advantage or at least closes the gap comparing the two machines. I do not have another on hand to compare so its possible the 51 is performing better then most. Ether way its a winner. Considering I paid $1200 for my last Pioneer this offers so much more and is up to date with the latest processing at half the price. Joe if your reading you have to admit this thing looks sweat :)

Actually Alan I just put a new lamp in this morning and I started to compare again (re-calibrate some) and the difference went to slight now. :eek: Is that possible? Why was it more noticable with over 1100 hours on my first lamp? Anyway, the picture is the absolute best I have seen in my theater so far. I also like the 4:4:4 selection as well. I have now decided to start using my 200 to its fullest. I have the Pioneer set up with the Cinema (of course the x.v. Color mode is engaged and after making slight adjustments with the 200 the rest are done with the Pioneer) and then I have the standard picture mode set with my HD DVDs and DTHEATER. I use USER1 for DirecTV viewing and of course Dynamic is for sports and maybe cartoons. It has taken me 10 months to get the 200 just the way I want it. :eek:

Joe my lamp is still new as well( projector is only days old so we may be seeing the same thing. I have to say I am sold on xenon by the way. I was just reading an article it has a natural gamma characteristic which leads to less processing/filtering verse using UHP.
Ahh..I thought I was the only one who kept his DTheater collection. There some movies I own on Dtheater that until we see on BD I just will not give it up.

Joes its taken you 10 months to get your settings down because this projector is so flexible its hard to settle on any one setting. Im still trying new things with mine and Im always finding new surprise combination's. Its almost to much:)

It is very flexible. I am also sold on the xenon lamp. Others doubted it and even thought I was crazy (I am a little though :D) but I have never seen this good of color from the UHP lamps. Just a quick question Alan. Are you getting the 200 to turn on the x.v. Color? I found the difference only when I did that. Without doing so it is exactly the same. Of course now like I posted I am having a hard time seeing the amount of difference I saw before. Oh and the weird thing is once you engage (or turn on) the x.v. Color setting it stays on for that setting (like Cinema for mine)... So when ever I select Cinema from the 200's remote it automatically has the x.v. Color already engaged. This is what has made me decide to do separate picture settings.

Pic 1 shows it in standard with all my regular settings. Pic 2 has it in the x.v. Color mode where black level and gamma are both limited (or can't be changed). Color and everything else was at the exact same setting. I know it is harder to tell since I just changed out my lamp this morning... And I apologize for the slight blurriness. I was trying to hurry since we have company coming any minute... :)

Both are great looking and I would not complain to have either or. ;)

I was just reading my Widescreen Review (this month's) and found an interesting interview (Gary Reber) with Jim Burns of Wolf Cinema. For their PJs they are using DLP with Xenon based lamps. He says the reason is- the Xenon lamp's light spectrum is far closer to the sun's spectrum and far more complete than a UHP lamp is. He then went on to say that Xenon is even better than some of the new laser PJs being talked about. I think this is obviously why we can achieve this great level of color that I have never seen done before with a UHP lamp based pj. Others have said it is the best pj for under $30,000 in terms of color. I have to agree. Of course I have always felt that way but reading about Xenon lamps in Widescreen Review this morning made me feel less crazy. :D

Does anyone know if there will be a newer version VW200 coming out? I heard all the buzz about the HW10 and HW70, plus they said there was not going to be a replacement for the 200, but are they upping the specs on this unit? 240mhz maybe? A HW200 so to speak? Thanks for any info.

Ralph

Sorry guys for not chiming in the last few days. Everyone is getting to leave for Cedia so Ive not had a lot of free time.

Ralph the VW200 will remain the flag ship onto 09 so we are all safe:)
That says a lot for a product in today fast pace market where we are use to seeing a annual replacement.

Joe, I am seeing a difference with the Xenon. I cant put it in words ( not technical enough ) but Im liking what Im seeing.

have one of these coming thursday or friday. looking forward to comparing it to my vpl-vw60. Nice thing is joerod and i have the same screen so I am going to swipe his settings to start with and hopefully save me hours of tweaking..
keep up the posts...
Best,
Chris

Let me know when you get it and then send me a PM. I will gladly send you my latest and greatest. :)

VW200 will remain the flag ship onto 09 so we are all safe:)

Good news :)

Oh oh I see a great Monday Night PJ battle VW200 vs. VW70:D

Might not be such a great battle when one of them has a 100% digital path and the other one does not... I planned to keep the 200 as my own "flagship" for at least another year anyway. :)

I explained it better in post 1198... :)

WOW! A "WHOLE YEAR"!!! That is something coming from you who switches gear like people do sox!
I really hope mine gets here tomorrow...
Best,
Chris

You do have a good point. I have had my 200 since 11/26 of last year and do not have any urges to try another one. That is a miracle since I usually do switch components out like socks. :D I will take a serious look at the 300 late next year but until then I am in 200 heaven! :eek:

Might not be such a great battle when one of them has a 100% digital path and the other one does not (like the RS2)...What do you mean? What part of the path isn't digital?

--Darin

I guess I should be more clear. What I mean is the 200 is cleaner and has less noise. The reaon why is the Sony is fully digital but their panels are used in the analog domain which is why it is so clean and CRT like. JVC's operate fully in the digital domain which is where the extra noise comes from. Not to mention there is also banding and dithering which others are talking about in that thread. I guess that is another reason why the 200 costs a lot more...

I guess I should be more clear. What I mean is the 200 is cleaner and has less noise. The reaon why is the Sony is fully digital but their panels are used in the analog domain which is why it is so clean and CRT like. JVC's operate fully in the digital domain which is where the extra noise comes from. Not to mention there is also banding and dithering which others are talking about in that thread. I guess that is another reason why the 200 costs a lot more...
So you're saying that analog panel drive is better than digital and that digital panel drive introduces extra noise? Sorry, but I consider that plain and simple wrong information. All our source data is pure digital. Converting that back to analog does not yield any advantage whatsoever. And keeping it purely digital doesn't add any noise whatsoever. The only effect of converting to analog means losing precision. Maybe converting to analog works as a kind of DNR filter, but I prefer seeing what is in the source - be it noise or image details. There's a reason why Sony has finally changed from analog to digital panel drive in the new HW10 and VW70 projectors (VW40 and VW60 panels were still driven analog, too). The VW200 sucessor will also have digitally driven panels...

Sorry, but I consider that plain and simple wrong information. All our source data is pure digital. Converting that back to analog does not yield any advantage whatsoever. And keeping it purely digital doesn't add any noise whatsoever.
Assuming that your digital data is already PWM encoded. Which it isn't. Converting bit limited PCM to bit limited PWM will result in quantization noise. Whether the net effect is better or worse than a D/A conversion depends on the implementation.

I prefer the look of analogue driven LCOS, too, although there are costs and benefits either way.

Interesting debate - as a barco crt user, lack of noise is something I've taken for granted. I often worry when I read reports of SD being unwatchable on digital projectors. It's still 90% of my viewing.
I have an SDI modified SKY box and I've heard some (with digital displays) say that it shows up too much noise and they prefer RGB SCART! There's definitely something artificial about this level of noise showing up. I find it hard to believe that it's simply more accurate.

Assuming that your digital data is already PWM encoded. Which it isn't. Converting bit limited PCM to bit limited PWM will result in quantization noise. Whether the net effect is better or worse than a D/A conversion depends on the implementation.

I prefer the look of analogue driven LCOS, too, although there are costs and benefits either way.
Oh, I didn't know that LCOS involves PWM if digitally driven! My fault then... :o

However, as far as I've read Sony has just changed from analog driving to digital driving when going VW40 -> HW10. So isn't it very probable that the VW200 successor will use digital driving, too?

So isn't it very probable that the VW200 successor will use digital driving, too?
Probably. Their Qualia replacement, if it ever comes, as well.

My take is that the push for digital drive is more about yields and consistancy than any desires for improved quality on the part of the manufacturers. Although they probably won't frame it as such in their press releases.

Are there any official information supporting that the new Sony projects have panels that are digitally controlled.

About levels
Lcos panels will still have kind of analog levels. The desired levels can be set either by analog drive or digital drive. I imagine digital drive as a balloon in a water with a weight belt to go gravity neutral getting short impulses to sink or rise.

I hate to knock the other pjs but if you put them side by side and play some of the same titles you will be able to see the difference. I personally prefer the 200's image. Otherwise I would have sold it long ago and just went with the RS2...

Guys I have no concrete info on the driver in the VW200 but I am thinking its last years technology and based on its performance it is driven analog. I could be wrong but Ive talked to a few people in the know who brought this to my attention. The new panels are smaller and have a slightly higher fill and are driven digital. Comparing the RS2 to my VW200 the 200 does not have the dithering during motion and it is better with source of low compression or mosquito noise. The JVC has the better native contrast of course.

I hate to knock the other pjs but if you put them side by side and play some of the same titles you will be able to see the difference. I personally prefer the 200's image. Otherwise I would have sold it long ago and just went with the RS2...

Ive seen both side by side and preferred the image of the RS2. To each their own. Both are excellent projectors!

Both are excellent projectors!

Indeed they are. Lcos has really evolved the last few years and its nice to see it is priced to meet a variety of budgets.

Of course I would be happy with either pj but I like the more CRT look I get from the 200. That and the absence of dithering. ;)

I would like for my damn 200 to show up so I can see what you guys are all going so ga ga about! Hopefully tomorrow, along with my new Emotiva amp!
Best,
Chris

Getting it for the weekend would be nice. That and your new AMP. :)

So last night I was watching DirecTV and had my 200's USER 1 setting on. I then switched to Blu-ray (Pioneer 05FD) and began to watch Any Which Way But Loose (Can't wait for Any Which Way You Can) and the 200 (on its own) flipped to the Cinema mode. The one which is set for the x.v. Color engaged. Now I can switch it back to USER 1 or Standard or whatever but I just thought that it was cool that it did it on its own! :eek:

Joe good idea with the user settings set for different inputs. I never thought of that. Ill give it a try.

You need to. Seriously, I never knew it could "auto" switch itself to the picture settings depending on what is going in. Either way it is much easier to set sports up with the Dynamic mode and regular viewing (also DirecTV movies) under USER 1. I then have Blu-ray going into the Cinema mode while HD DVD/DTHEATER/SD dvds are all under Standard. The other cool thing is for sports I have been using AUTO 1 and Black level High with gamma 3 and of course Manual set to 92 with Black level Low and gamma OFF for the Standard mode which when you switch to them they are automatically set up. I know it is nice having a good VP but the 200 has so many different configurations it is much easier setting it up instead. I am still learning... :)

How about a count of how many hours you guys have on your bulbs? Although the lamp brightness decrease has been covered in this form before, I don't think that anyone really let us know just when they think their 200 hit 1/3 brightness and 1/2 brightness in terms of hours logged.

I've got about 1000 hours on the bulb now and I am thinking about replacing it. I know that Sony rates the bulb for about 2000 hours, but is that until it hits half brightness or until it should be replaced?

Am I jumping the gun to replace the bulb at 1000? When did you guys first see a visible decline in your light output?

I really liked my colors and brightness when I hit about 200 hours on my bulb. I went to about 1100 which is a miracle for me. I could have went longer though. I only replaced it because I like having the spare lamp. Now I will definitely let this one go until it goes out completely. I am already at 70 hours with the new one. It is still to bright though and can't wait until it gets in that perfect spot. I noticed a drop in brightness with the 100 (ruby) but I will have to say I did not really notice a bad drop with the 200. It was actually a good one where I was getting a terrific, balanced image. I can't believe I am complaining about the new lamp being to bright! :eek:

I am really blown away with the colors from this projector. Speed Racer looks unreal on this. Not sure if its the Xenon lamp or the Expanded color gamut with CMS or the combination but it paint a very rich image on the screen.

I hate to ask but is Speed Racer that bad of a movie? :eek: I keep reading about its great pic Q... I guess I could at least netflix it...

I hate to ask but is Speed Racer that bad of a movie? :eek: I keep reading about its great pic Q... I guess I could at least netflix it...

So, has commenting on the picture quality of a movie become the equivalent of saying that someone has a great personality? ;)

Perfectly put GKevinK! :D

:)

Heck... I'm just happy that the 200 thread is back on the front page. Once the 'official' thread for a projector starts spending most of its time several pages down seems to be the best indicator of when it's time to start looking for a replacement projector - and I'm nowhere close to that yet.

Kevin

As an aside - since the thread has recently been talking about folks reaching their first lamp replacement - I've decided to re-purpose my VW100 (which I still have) in a secondary location in my home office. I'm planning to get a much smaller 16x9 screen and take advantage of the fact that the 100 and 200 use the same lamp. I'm thinking that the strategy will be to have lamps get their first 800-1000 hours or so on the 200 in the main room, then get bumped to the VW100 with the smaller screen to make good use of the dimmer half of the lamp's life.

When I first watched SR for the first time I thought it was a little over the top for my taste ( they say you have to have grown up with the cartoon to appreciate the movie ) but I have to say mid way through the story takes shapes and has a nice twist for an ending and I enjoyed it.
PQ is reference with great color solid black levels with no distracting artifacts. Great demo material to show off a projectors potential.

Kevin, the main issue with the 200's popularity is its price. Trust me, I upgrade my components routinely and I am not even thinking about my next one yet. :eek:

Alan, I will go ahead and get it. I remember the cartoon and how much my older brothers liked it. Plus the cool Hotwheel! :D Anyway, I have been trying to only get titles on Blu-ray that I really consider re watchable. Since this is reference material it qualifies.. :)

Kevin, the main issue with the 200's popularity is its price. Trust me, I upgrade my components routinely and I am not even thinking about my next one yet. :eek:

Alan, I will go ahead and get it. I remember the cartoon and how much my older brothers liked it. Plus the cool Hotwheel! :D Anyway, I have been trying to only get titles on Blu-ray that I really consider re watchable. Since this is reference material it qualifies.. :)

Joerod,

Can you please point me in the correct direction? I have the w200 with a Denon AVP, vp50 pro, and the elite 05. The w200 is at default settings I do not know much about the correct settings but after reading your posts and seeing your pics I decided to get the 05 and vp50 I just connected the 05 last night the vp50 is not connected yet. Could you please assist with the optimal setting for my devices? I would truly appreciate any assistance you can provide. Also I was thinking if I should connect the 05 to the denon then the video out of the denon to the vp50 from the vp50 to the w200. Is that the best way? Thanks

You got it perfectly. Make sure you set the 05 to High Speed and 4:4:4 for best results. I would also check and make sure the Denon does not have any menu settings for enabling deep color. Some receivers and pre/pros do. Also, make sure the 50pro has the 4:4:4 colorspace output. I also like setting the Edge Enhancement up a little to. And maybe the Fine to. Don't go crazy with them though. As for the 200 you will have to go by your own tastes. There are so many features to choose from. I like gamma OFF, Manual Iris set to 92 and Black Level LOW. Unless you decide to enable the x.v. Color then gamma and black level is up to the 200. So you will need to experiment and see what you like best. Keep us posted. :)

Joe

I could not get my 50pro to take 12bit 444 from the Pio. It gives me a strange vertical shaking with chroma banding. By the way if you set the 05 to 12 bit 422 it reverts to 8 bit you want 444 as you mentioned. Selecting RGB with ether brightness level at high speed keeps the 12 bit as well.
Im puzzled why my pro will not take the 12 bit. I do have the latest software for both the player and the pro.

Alan, I can't say much here because I have the NDA with DVDO so I will send you a PM. If it looks great doing the RGB then I would not worry about the 4:4:4 Y.... colorspace. I do not have the 50pro in my set up at the moment but should tomorrow afternoon. I have been BETA testing the Edge. Gary M. Has my 50pro and is doing a firmware upgrade on it for me. :)

EDGE out soon. For short money worth the try. Want to hear your combo Edge+VW200 experience when you can joe.

No problem. Will tell shortly... :)

No problem. Will tell shortly... :)

Joe, what receiver/processor do you use in your setup? Also do you think HDMI cable quality makes a big difference? Do you run your components into the VP50 or your receiver/processor? Thanks

Joe

I could not get my 50pro to take 12bit 444 from the Pio. It gives me a strange vertical shaking with chroma banding. By the way if you set the 05 to 12 bit 422 it reverts to 8 bit you want 444 as you mentioned. Selecting RGB with ether brightness level at high speed keeps the 12 bit as well.
Im puzzled why my pro will not take the 12 bit. I do have the latest software for both the player and the pro.

I am new to all of this, but I was under the impression that the Pro would only handle 10 bit for 1080P.
It will do 12-bit at > 480p/576p/720p/1080i...again, I'm new to this crap.

I actually just answered your second question a few posts up. :) I run Blu-ray, HD DVD, SD dvd (SP1000) and a 360 into the Onkyo 885 PRO first. Then I run them into an input (or will in a little bit) of the 50pro. I also run two different DirecTV HD DVRs, and DTHEATER into the VP. I use the 50pro as my last link in my chain....

As for HDMI cables I suggest hitting the middle of the road. I have the latest Monster Ultra 1000 35 foot (it was a gift) and the very first MOnster HDMI 400 35 foot cable. Both pass the High Speed transmission just fine from the Pioneer player... I will also say I have short Monoprice 1.3a cables that I use the 51FD with on my other displays (plasma and LCD) and they work fine to...

Dogone, thanks for the info. :) I will have my 50pro this mourning (thanks to Priority Overnight) and will get on it immediately. So the big question will be which looks better then? Sending 1080i 4:4:4 into the 50pro then having it deinterlace it to 1080p and send out 4:4:4 or just sending in RGB and doing it the same... Or just doing 4:2:2 in and then 4:4:4 out? :eek: I will experiment and report back today! This is a curve ball I wasn't expecting from the 50pro... Of course there is also one from the other VP to... I guess at this point you need to pick your poison... :)

Not trying to start a war but 4:2:2 out will give a better result. You gain nothing by artificially going to 4:4:4 and likely will degrade the image.

Mark, I respect your insight 100%! If 4:2:2 is the best option it would save me a headache of trying to get 4:4:4 to work. Seriously. :)

This insight really is attributable to Jim Peterson of Lumagen whose Radiance can easiy output either. Hesays 4;2:2 maximizes the performance.

I understand that. But what if the source (like Pioneer 05/51) was doing the 4:4:4 upconversion deep color trick? Is it the same as the Lumagen or DVDO VPs doing it? So maybe by setting the Pioneer to 4:2:2 could yeild the best result? Wouldn't it be funny after all this experimenting if the RGB ended up looking the best anyway? :D

I understand that. But what if the source (like Pioneer 05/51) was doing the 4:4:4 upconversion deep color trick? Is it the same as the Lumagen or DVDO VPs doing it? So maybe by setting the Pioneer to 4:2:2 could yeild the best result? Wouldn't it be funny after all this experimenting if the RGB ended up looking the best anyway? :D

Actually, I think this will more than likely be the case. :)

I will gladly take it if it looks the best... :)

A few notes, I finally got my pro to take the 12 bit 4:4:4 from the Pio but later when I turned the system back on it no longer took it. Not sure if its my system.
The Pioneer set to 12 bit with 4:2:2 only outputs 8 bit.
Stacy or one of the guys from Secrets posted in the VP50Pro thread he uses 4:4:4. He said 4:2:2 has something wrong. To my eye I cannot see a difference but Im not at his level of technical expertise and do not know what I should be looking for.

Thanks Alan. I will see what I can accomplish spending the day tackling this. Did you have to do anything special to get the 50pro to accept 4:4:4?

Did you have to do anything special to get the 50pro to accept 4:4:4?

I wish I could remember the sequence I turned everything on but the next time it went back to the jittering and color banding.
Maybe you will have better luck.

I hate to post this Alan but it (VP50pro) is accepting 1080p/24- 4:4:4 High Transmisiion from the Pioneer 05... :eek: And I turned it off a few times to make sure it would keep accepting it...

This is actually good news. Process of elimination. At least I know it must be a setting or something on my end. Ill nail it down over the weekend when I have time to play. Thanks Joe for spending time on this.

Now run out and grab Speed Racer. This title was made for the Sony:)

Leaving for BB now... :)

Here is a quick pic of what I am using with my 200... :)

Did the Cine4Home review of the vw200 ever happen? I can't seem to find it on there website....

Did the Cine4Home review of the vw200 ever happen? I can't seem to find it on there website....


We did a review for a german print-magazine a couple of months ago. Not on our webpage though...

Regards,
Ekkehart

We did a review for a german print-magazine a couple of months ago. Not on our webpage though...

Regards,
Ekkehart

Hi Ekkehart

Any chance you could share some numbers. To bad the magazine does not have a web presence.

Thank you!