Betamax and eight track tape. Everyone had to have it because it did something special not because it had a future proof guarantee.

Art

I wasn't alive when either came out, but I thought there was a Betamax-VHS format war? It was the case that most people owned both and simply chose VHS? Or did the masses more or less wait that one out until VHS surged ahead?

I know there were a lot of Betamax owners (who felt burned by the format war from everything I've read on the subject), but was Betamax really supported by the masses? If it was, wouldn't it have survived alongside VHS?

See - here is the problem - you are ignoring the fact that the lowest price so far for a HDM player was that $98 priced A2.

Now if you consider $98 to be a large amount of money to risk - well we can understand that. Not everyone has alot.

But it also plays and upscales DVD's which we know has a future of at least 5 years from now.

And you can see all the HD movies you want - just rent them. Don't buy any. Not a single one. Then your "risk" is really only $25 - the cost difference between the A2 and an UP DVD player.

Now I am sure that anyone can risk $25 . . . don't you?

OBTW - you will also get 5 free HD DVD's worth about $100 or you can sell them for $10 a piece and reduce your "investment" to only $48 out of pocket cash.

So please . . once again - tell me about risk and uncertainty measured to potential loss based on making a mistake buying the "wrong" format.

PS my LD player - bought it in 1990 - still working - and so do the LD's. Neither exploded after DVD was launched.

Where can you get an A2 for 98 bucks?

I thought for a minute that you were serious.:D

Art

I thought for a minute Mr. Robohump was suspended from posting and this thread regained self dignity. :(

I'll prolly get a warning or suspension but am tired of reading your thread-crapping Mr. Robohump :mad:

You don't own either a BD or HD DVD player. SHUT UP .

You have made no positive comment nor brought any positive contribution or added value to this thread.

All you do is ramble on your tiresome "HDM adoption by the masses won't happen because one format will fail" mantra over and over.

WE GET IT. STOP STEERING THE THREAD OFF-TOPIC

Dude, wtf? Get off this thread and go play in traffic. Go start another thread and voice your opinion there, where someone gives a ...... This discussion is about CLASSIC TITLES (lack of) CAPISH!

Since Joining here on Nov. 1st you have 118 posts and 27 of them in this thread alone! (22.8%) :eek:

Congrats, you have alienated me (and perhaps others).

sry for the rant folks, ok Mark hit me :o

Edit: I get home from a long day at work and all I wanted to do is read some thoughts on what classics people want to see..... and 1/2 th thread is HDM cost of entry bs :mad:

Yes, buying that exact player at that exact time and only renting is a low-to-no risk proposition. I won't argue that. But where does that bring HDM? An entire format of renters, not buying anything?

There is hesitation to build up libraries for a format that could go belly up 6 months from now. That applies to either HD DVD or Blu-Ray. If there were a unified format supported by all studios, there would not be that hesitation.

I view future value as studio support and access to new releases. Neither format can offer that to me at this point. The only alternative is to buy 2 players (which most people will not do) or go with a DF player (too expensive at this point).

You keep saying "if" like whatever it is you are referring to is going to happen - good or bad.

This is the definition of FUD . . Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Is this what you are doing?

Mr Robohump,

I took a chance on HD-DVD. No Guarantee of a future but with your outlook I almost wonder, have you ever considered that as a human you are not guaranteed any future. Like your examples, a truck could hit you head on tomorrow and no more Mr Robohump. Life is to short to worry about future proofing our electronic formats.

Where can you get an A2 for 98 bucks?

Over 90,000 people already have. The fact the some missed the sale . . hey you snooze you lose.

And speaking of snoozing - how is your new daughter - you getting any sleep?

Yes, buying that exact player at that exact time and only renting is a low-to-no risk proposition. I won't argue that. But where does that bring HDM? An entire format of renters, not buying anything?

There is hesitation to build up libraries for a format that could go belly up 6 months from now. That applies to either HD DVD or Blu-Ray. If there were a unified format supported by all studios, there would not be that hesitation.

I view future value as studio support and access to new releases. Neither format can offer that to me at this point. The only alternative is to buy 2 players (which most people will not do) or go with a DF player (too expensive at this point).
I think it's cute to see guys like you talking to brick walls like that. Good for you! Go on brutha'! Testify!

Of course I'm pretty much with ya'. The war is a double-edged sword of economic competition and obsolescence fear. This thread is a testimony to both arguments. Mass adoption, IMO requires...

1. Reasonable price and
2. Lack of fear of obsolescence (software mainly)

As of this date, neither are realized.

So a' renting we will go.

Where can you get an A2 for 98 bucks?

Haa, while you where up all nite singing lullabys to the little princes WallyWorld had an A2 BF sale :p

I thought for a minute Mr. Robohump was suspended from posting and this thread regained self dignity. :(

I'll prolly get a warning or suspension but am tired of reading your thread-crapping Mr. Robohump :mad:

You don't own either a BD or HD DVD player. SHUT UP .

You have made no positive comment nor brought any positive contribution or added value to this thread.

All you do is ramble on your tiresome "HDM adoption by the masses won't happen because one format will fail" mantra over and over.

WE GET IT. STOP STEERING THE THREAD OFF-TOPIC

Dude, wtf? Get off this thread and go play in traffic. Go start another thread and voice your opinion there, where someone gives a ...... This discussion is about CLASSIC TITLES (lack of) CAPISH!

Since Joining here on Nov. 1st you have 118 posts and 27 of them in this thread alone! (22.8%) :eek:

Congrats, you have alienated me (and perhaps others).

sry for the rant folks, ok Mark hit me :o

Edit: I get home from a long day at work and all I wanted to do is read some thoughts on what classics people want to see..... and 1/2 th thread is HDM cost of entry bs :mad:
+1

I wasn't alive when either came out, but I thought there was a Betamax-VHS format war? It was the case that most people owned both and simply chose VHS? Or did the masses more or less wait that one out until VHS surged ahead?

I know there were a lot of Betamax owners (who felt burned by the format war from everything I've read on the subject), but was Betamax really supported by the masses? If it was, wouldn't it have survived alongside VHS?I owned several of both and they were both adopted by the masses. All titles were available on both for many years. With VHS being cheaper it eventually captured more and more of the market until it won out.

It was very similar to HD DVD and Blu-ray with one big difference. You could get all titles on both formats until the very end. I don't think many Beta users were upset outside of the fact that Beta produced a slightly better image (because of its faster recording speed I believe).

Looking though the list of DVDs in my library, the ones I'd like to own in HD are:
Amadeus
Amelie
The Birdcage
Blade Runner
Casablanca
Chocolat
Citizen Kane
Doctor Zhivago
English Patient
Groundhog Day
The Hours
Kundun
Lawrence of Arabia
Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil
Moulin Rouge (2001)
My Fair Lady
Tea with Mussolini
Titus
West Side Story

Well enough of Mr. Robohump - back to the classics:

Always loved Westerns. They pretty much guarantee you some incredible Cinematography.

Jerimiah Johnson
Hour Of The Gun
Silverado
The Scalpehunters
Crossfire Trail

Just to name a few. Elated that we now have The Wild Bunch.

Over 90,000 people already have. The fact the some missed the sale . . hey you snooze you lose.

And speaking of snoozing - how is your new daughter - you getting any sleep?
NO!!! You wanna' make somethin' of it?!!!

:)

Thanks for asking. I honestly do appreciate your empathy.


As for the A2, if you recall, I got mine... Wal-Mart. 8 AM sharp!

Though you did qualify it... somewhat, your post, IMO eluded to a premise of $98 players as if they are somewhat common. MANY people DID miss out on that sale! Those prices are not, yet the reality for most.

Just sayin'.

;)


Oh... P.S....

She's beautiful. Thank you. :)

Pick any CE product that's been adopted by the masses. Any product. It's your choice.

A brand new TV for example. Is future value guaranteed with this product? It sure is. You know that it will allow you to enjoy new content for minimum 5-10 years.

An iPod. Does it provide guaranteed future value? Yup. You know there will be iTunes waiting for you for the next 5 years at least... full of new release CD's.

A new radio? Any future value there? Yes again. You know you'll have new content every day for the next 5-10 years.

HDM? You pick the wrong side and your future value is limited to 6-12 months possibly.

Let's say the holographic disc association announced that starting in 2008 all major studios would support holographic disc. Players would be $300-$1000 and movies would be $30.99. Great, right? But, there's a catch. The studios would only be supporting it for 6 months and then support would end forever. No new movies. No new catalogue titles. No rentals. Nothing. Nada. It's over.

You think the masses would jump on the holographic bandwagon in the above scenerio for a great 6 month ride? I sure don't.
Sometimes I really have to wonder where some people come from.
I've got give you a bit of credit though, everytime I think I've read it all, the internet proves me wrong.

Haa, while you where up all nite singing lullabys to the little princes WallyWorld had an A2 BF sale :p
See Post #265 ;)

:p

You keep saying "if" like whatever it is you are referring to is going to happen - good or bad.

This is the definition of FUD . . Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Is this what you are doing?

The only time I used "if" in the post you quoted was in reference to a unified format. Is it going to happen? I don't know. There's me and that uncertainty again.

I'm just stating the facts as I see them. There is a lot of FUD in HDM today. Those are just the facts.

Sometimes I really have to wonder where some people come from.
I've got give you a bit of credit though, everytime I think I've read it all, the internet proves me wrong.

I once read somebody suggest that the masses should cave in and just spend God knows how much to buy both formats and be happy about it. Heck, wny leave HD VMD out of the mix... go for the HDM hat-trick. I had a nice long laugh over that. Yes indeed, some pretty crazy things are posted on this here internet.

I think both formats will now survive.

HD DVD because that format will soon reach 1,000,000 dedicated players.

Blu-ray because Sony will support it as long as the PS3 is sold.

If one format begins to dominate, the other will not die immediately, it will be a slow transition as the studios and CE manufacturers shift support. But existing hardware will be available for years for both formats, existing discs will still play and dual format players will be available next year at today's Blu-ray only player prices.

With the increasing size of the installed bases , long tail and niche and classic titles will eventually be released.

With HD DVD that will probably be sooner than later as replication costs are close to DVD costs, which has proven to be profitable, and lower player costs are rapidly leading to more dedicated players being sold.

With Blu-ray, it may take a little longer with current somewhat higher replication costs over DVD and capacity and yield bottlenecks but it will also happen overtime IMHO. The dominance of the PS3 as a sales vehicle for Blu-ray titles lead s to a day and date current movie bias, but that will also shift over time as more dedicated players are sold.

I'm pretty bullish on classic movies coming out on both formats, as there are just a lot more catalog titles in existence that hit new movies, and with growing bases of dedicated players there is more of a market to be served.

I wasn't alive when either came out, but I thought there was a Betamax-VHS format war? It was the case that most people owned both and simply chose VHS? Or did the masses more or less wait that one out until VHS surged ahead?

I know there were a lot of Betamax owners (who felt burned by the format war from everything I've read on the subject), but was Betamax really supported by the masses? If it was, wouldn't it have survived alongside VHS?

Pretty inaccurate and you not being alive at the time doesn't excuse your ignorance. The masses adoted both of these for precisely the reason stated.

Art

Mr Robohump,

I took a chance on HD-DVD. No Guarantee of a future but with your outlook I almost wonder, have you ever considered that as a human you are not guaranteed any future. Like your examples, a truck could hit you head on tomorrow and no more Mr Robohump. Life is to short to worry about future proofing our electronic formats.

I hope neither Lee or Art drive trucks; you may have given them an idea.

Damn, what's the title.......? The Java Head book?

And do you just love it that the hero from The Guns of Navarone sets off on the Force Ten From Navarone adventure hours after the first book ends!:D

Isn't a young Anthony Hopkins in Bear Island?

Sam- I missed this post!

South By Java Head - terrific book.

Also Breakheart Pass - book and movie with Charles Bronson

And a real classic - The Secret Ways with Richard Widmark

I was always surprised that they never made more of his books into movies. Everyone they did was practically a winner.

Good books for future movies;

Puppet On A Chain
Goodbye Califorina
H.M.S. Ulysses
When Eight Bells Toll

Thread rolled back. Some legitimate posts (though very few) may have been lost in the rollback.

Off topic and bickering posts removed.

Suspensions issued.

I didn't read the whole thread, so this may have been mentioned already... But my frustration with catalog titles is that the PQ so often sucks. We have studios using 7 year old HD masters that were originally intended for DVD, the limitations of which are blatantly obvious when compared to newer HD transfers made for the release to HD-DVD and/or BRD.

Look at Full Metal Jacket or The Big Lebowski. The list goes on. I'd rather they not release these movies on either of the new formats if they're not going to take the time to remaster them. We do have them on DVD already, and it's hardly worth an extra purchase for a marginal improvement (well, to me anyway). :-)

I didn't read the whole thread, so this may have been mentioned already... But my frustration with catalog titles is that the PQ so often sucks. We have studios using 7 year old HD masters that were originally intended for DVD, the limitations of which are blatantly obvious when compared to newer HD transfers made for the release to HD-DVD and/or BRD.

Look at Full Metal Jacket or The Big Lebowski. The list goes on. I'd rather they not release these movies on either of the new formats if they're not going to take the time to remaster them. We do have them on DVD already, and it's hardly worth an extra purchase for a marginal improvement (well, to me anyway). :-) I differ with you on this.;)

In an ideal world, I would like to see a restored title. But if a studio doesn't think a re mastering is justified, I would still rather see a classic movie re-released in HD DVD or Blu-ray with the best master they have available, warts and all.:)

As long as its better than the DVD, I would like access to the best it can be ,so I have the best version for my home theater.

I don't care if its not perfect and I understand that the source quality may have some issues, if its a favorite movie I want it in HDM.

If its $14.99 , I can understand if its not remastered for some titles. its not so much the moneys wasted on a imperfect double/triple dip to me.

If its even a marginal upgrade of a favorite title, versus never ever a HDM release, because its not worth being carefully restored, I'll take it anyway over a DVD version, jut because it gives my equipment more to work with.But my frustration with catalog titles is that the PQ so often sucks I'm not frustrated if its better than the DVD.

I realize the source for older movies may vary a lot, and I don't expect a niche 60's movie to look like a recent release.

I agree with you Kosty.
In a perfect world, they would go back and devote 30-100 hours scrubbing and polishing up new HD digital masters for everything- but thats just unrealistic at this point. Even some of the less than impressive looking discs out there now reveal a nice upgrade over the Mpeg2 compressed dvds. People may not think so looking at them straight off- but when you pop in the original and compare the benefits ARE visible- and when are using them in a 1080p fp set up, with under a 1.5 viewing distance, you DO appreciate having the HDM- even if its less than stellar.

back in 2006, Warner commented that going forward, any 2 disc SE set that they release on dvd, will also be released as an HDM. And as we have seen with the release of The Wild Bunch and Bullitt, they are going to be using the 2 disc SEs that have shown up in the last few years as well.
Starting in March, that means Bonnie And Clyde, Cool Hand Luke, and most likely LA Confidential (all carried over from what were supposed to be 2007 anniversary releases).
Also, Warner is going to be haiving a studio wide 85th Anniversary celebration all year. What this means isn't clear yet- but we may get a few more classics in the mix than we have in previous years because of it.
Far From The Madding Crowd should be coming soon as well and I'm very much hoping to see that in HD.
Also- How The West Was Won is being restored and could make it out next year.

Fox is an odd studio. I just bought some of their classic musical releases, and they have resotration comparisons on each disc, that go into the amount of man hours put into restoring them for video, after the initial HD transfer.
Some of these are getting over 100 hours of work- in what has to be a low selling (even on dvd) title. And yet, Fox goes to the trouble there, yet is extremely hesitent to release any 'classic' content at all on Bd. I mean, I like the Fly and Die Hard, but can we get something from the 70s too, let alone the 60s or 50s (and all the great cinemascope pictures they put out in that period...many of whom seem to be in great shape).

oh yeah- since the sequel to Casino Roylae is due out next fall, we're finally likely to get at least a couple of Bond films on Bd. Though what I expect is just a couple with the films release, and then a couple more with the video release of the new film in the spring. I will be shocked if they put the whole catalog out there by mid 2009. I just can't see that happening.

As I've said, it's not just a case of "Is it worth cleaning it up for high def".

Only a few short years ago we got most (all?) the Leone films restored & remastered for SD DVD. I'm pretty sure they'll have made high def masters at the time - little or no more work necessary.

Boy, am I looking forward to these!

Steve W

I also agree that a lot of old movies look pretty good just slapped onto HDNet with MPEG-2 encoding. SO VC-1 or AVC/MPEG-4 will look pretty good.

A lot of those classics already have their high def masters done already for the last DVD release.

Use VC-1 or MEPG-4 on those at a HD DVD or Blu-ray bit rate, port over the DVD extras an I'm a happy camper.

Give me optical disc HDM bandwidth over what I can get on cable or sat, and most old titles will look pretty good just auto encoded or with some moderate manual tweaking, if they already are looking ok with real time MPEG-2 or MPEG-4 encodes.

With the growth of high def cable channels, any films with some merit are probably getting a least a look to see if the best master is available is and at least acceptable for HD broadcast.

Art already mentioned something similar which I would also like to add on too.

Of course if you spent thousand(s) on a new high def television or front projector it would make sense to spend $198 to provide it a source component that will give your display the best possibile quality it could have. I think your wasting the quality of your new display if you do not do this. How much of your money is wasted to purchase such a display and not offer it a high def source...

As for whether these new technologies will last 5+ years, guess what I've been enjoying both formats for 1.5 yrs already. So who's really the one missing out on enjoying the best possibile quality that can be obtained currently. If your always sitting on the sidelines looking to future technology possibilities you will never get to enjoy what is currently possibile.

With sale prices going as low as $98 for HD DVD players and that coming with 5 to 10 free HD DVD movies, I cant picture anyone looking for superior quality picturing this as a bad investment.

This thread IMO is the discussion of Catalog movies - older movies - and the desire to be seen and owned by HDM members. It is not about going format neutral - nor the cost of movies.

It is about the availability of movies - catalog movies - and are they in trouble - as far as HDM - because they do not sell.

Secondly, the examples you give (Plasma, LCD, HDMI, etc.) all have reasonable guaranteed future value. If they didn't when early adopters jumped on board, they certainly did once the masses jumped in. All will last 5-10 years +.


I think there's a lot of validity in the expected future value issue re: format choice/ CE choices.

After all, a very common metric for the expected future value of a company is its stock price

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equity_investment

"Equity investment generally refers to the buying and holding of shares of stock on a stock market by individuals and funds in anticipation of income from dividends and capital gain as the value of the stock rises."

The "share" you're buying is the set tops and discs, increasing its market share in hopes of future returns in entertainment.

The anticipated "dividends" from a format choice could be interpreted as the expectation of continued future disc releases (dividend "payments") in the native format chosen.

The "capital gain" issue has been discussed, with depreciation being most likely, though there are lots of examples of appreciation, such as the speaker and RP82 examples I gave earlier, or out-of-print media titles that can often exceed the amount purchased. In my experience, music performance titles (concerts, etc) tend to retain or increase in value, regardless of format, as there is always a fan of an artist/group willing to own the original.

This thread IMO is the discussion of Catalog movies - older movies - and the desire to be seen and owned by HDM members. It is not about going format neutral - nor the cost of movies.

It is about the availability of movies - catalog movies - and are they in trouble - as far as HDM - because they do not sell.

I agree with this but also I do agree that if catalog prices are more attractive say consistantly under twenty dollars it could help the cause.

Art

o formatsYou bought your players from a garage sale or as refurbs then.

Cheapest Blu-Ray = 399.99
Cheapest HD DVD = 349.99

Total After Tax = $854.98

Then we get the absolute pleasure of dropping $100 bills left and right buying discs (half of which will be for an obsolete format). HDM rocks!

The A2 was on sale for $200.00 and the Samsung was a refub with latest firmware for $229.00. I bought some BD titles for $13.00 each (2 for 1). Considering the Samsung player I bought was $1,200.00 only 14 months ago and the A1 was over $700.00 I would say things have changed. I think there's a very good argument that having this kind of competition has actually made two players more affordable than one and the same goes for software. I don't buy this having two formats is killing HDM argument. I owned both Betamax and VHS and one of these formats succeeded. Having two didn't kill them both and I continued to use the Betamax machine for years. Sorry, but I will continue to support both and encourage anyone who listens to support both.

THE MAN WHO WOULD BE KING

Cheers,

Grant

Where can you get an A2 for 98 bucks?

I got mine at Wal-Mart.:D

I thought for a minute Mr. Robohump was suspended from posting and this thread regained self dignity. :(

I'll prolly get a warning or suspension but am tired of reading your thread-crapping Mr. Robohump :mad:

You don't own either a BD or HD DVD player. SHUT UP .

You have made no positive comment nor brought any positive contribution or added value to this thread.

All you do is ramble on your tiresome "HDM adoption by the masses won't happen because one format will fail" mantra over and over.

WE GET IT. STOP STEERING THE THREAD OFF-TOPIC

Dude, wtf? Get off this thread and go play in traffic. Go start another thread and voice your opinion there, where someone gives a ...... This discussion is about CLASSIC TITLES (lack of) CAPISH!

Since Joining here on Nov. 1st you have 118 posts and 27 of them in this thread alone! (22.8%) :eek:

Congrats, you have alienated me (and perhaps others).

sry for the rant folks, ok Mark hit me :o

Edit: I get home from a long day at work and all I wanted to do is read some thoughts on what classics people want to see..... and 1/2 th thread is HDM cost of entry bs :mad:

I totally agree!

We get it, Robohump!

Sam- I missed this post!

South By Java Head - terrific book.

Also Breakheart Pass - book and movie with Charles Bronson

And a real classic - The Secret Ways with Richard Widmark

I was always surprised that they never made more of his books into movies. Everyone they did was practically a winner.

Good books for future movies;

Puppet On A Chain
Goodbye Califorina
H.M.S. Ulysses
When Eight Bells Toll

God, I love South By Java Head!

McLean's heroes were always in the "wounded hero" category, too.

By the end of the novels, they were beaten, shot, bleeding, crawling messes!
I wonder why Mel Gibson never directed himself in any of them!;)

I agree with this but also I do agree that if catalog prices are more attractive say consistantly under twenty dollars it could help the cause.

Art

Do you really believe that a few dollars is going to prevent someone from buying one of their favorite movies?

We who love the older movies have seen them time and time again - not only on Video but when the rare chance to see them once again in a theatre comes along - we do our best to see them as they were meant to be seen.

I ENVY the people who live in L.A. where they always show old movies and have 70mm Festivals and such.

So a Catelog title really depends on hjow well it is going to be presented on HDM. Did they do a restoration? Are they using the latest transfer equipment? Or is it a 5 year old HD transfer made for DVD?

I am waiting with baited breath for a real HD DVD BOGO so i can stock up on Catalog titles like Grand Prix and Mutnity and Battle and Forbidden because I do want my money to go as far as it can. Buit if any of those films were on my top 10 favorite list - I would buy it no matter what the cost. They just happen to be in my top 30.

God, I love South By Java Head!

McLean's heroes were always in the "wounded hero" category, too.

By the end of the novels, they were beaten, shot, bleeding, crawling messes!

I wonder why Mel Gibson never directed himself in any of them!;)

Well said and SO right

Mel seems to be making "statement" films as opposed to sheer entertainment films - IMO.

And for the life of me - I cannot understand that of all the Robert Ludlum books to turn into movies - they picked the Jason Bourne ones (Ludlum is my second favorite authour of all time) These books were a mess to get through. Yet they have done very well.

Unfortunately many of his books center around the Cold War which is now over.

Here's hoping someone in Hollywood Does a revisit on AM's books and see's that each is a joy to read and each can easily be turned into a successful movie.

PS: - he always liked one of the villians to be a giant - a huge man. IMO - The Secret Ways was one of his absolutle best books and should be remade. If you have never read it - do so. You will have a VERY difficult time putting it down once you start it.

I see alot of mention to not purchasing catalog titles on HDM. I must admit when I first purchased my HD DVD player it was with the intention of purchasing mainly new releases and perhaps some of my favorite titles but the thought of replacing practiacally my whole DVD collection seemed overwhelming.

Since owning the player though I have come to enjoy the superior quality, interactivity, extra features and now web enabled features that I have no problem replacing my entire catalog as the titles are released on HD.

Pretty much my only consideration in whether to purchase a catalog or existing title is to ask myself if it will be watched more then once.

I have around 1,000 SD DVDs.

I have almost every film on SD DVD that I want in that format - I think there are less than half a dozen 'missing'.

I really appreciate high def on my projector, but it has less of an impact on my 43" plasma - a small enough increase that it really doesn't bother me too much.

So, the only films I need to replace on high def are the ones I'd appreciate on my projector, and that I'd actually drag my carcass into the cinema room to watch, rather than just watch on the plasma.

Fortunately, 95% of these are pretty obvious choices for the studios to release.

So let's leave to one side for a moment the question "Will the studio ever release this"? Instead, let's ask "If it were on high def, would I want to buy it again"?

For most of my SD DVDs the answer is no, simply because I'll only ever watch it again on my plasma, and SD is good enough for me there.

So what do I buy on high def? Anything new, or anything old that's a real classic.

Whilst we might not see quite the range of films in high def that we saw on SD DVD, I think we'll eventually see the all classics.

Steve W

I have around 1,000 SD DVDs.

I have almost every film on SD DVD that I want in that format - I think there are less than half a dozen 'missing'.

I really appreciate high def on my projector, but it has less of an impact on my 43" plasma - a small enough increase that it really doesn't bother me too much.

So, the only films I need to replace on high def are the ones I'd appreciate on my projector, and that I'd actually drag my carcass into the cinema room to watch, rather than just watch on the plasma.

Fortunately, 95% of these are pretty obvious choices for the studios to release.

So let's leave to one side for a moment the question "Will the studio ever release this"? Instead, let's ask "If it were on high def, would I want to buy it again"?

For most of my SD DVDs the answer is no, simply because I'll only ever watch it again on my plasma, and SD is good enough for me there.

So what do I buy on high def? Anything new, or anything old that's a real classic.

Whilst we might not see quite the range of films in high def that we saw on SD DVD, I think we'll eventually see the all classics.

Steve W

I agree tho I'd like to see the major studios begin a marketing campaign like Disney and the Grateful Dead, whom release titles "From the Vault". If each studio can initially release 5 to 10 per year and make a make a big marketing stink about it I bet even the 20 something crowd will be interested in picking them up.

just my 2c :)

Splendor In The Grass may be a possible candidate for an HDM release next year.
It is supposedly getting an SE re-release in conjuction with a Natalie Wood themed boxset- most likely to coincide with her birthday in the spring.

Man Who Would Be King is also do for a remaster soon and would make for a great HDM. They may be saving that for an anniversary release though.

Robert Redfords The Candidate is do for a release next year as well. I think he recently recorded a commentary for it. I would love to see that one on HD maybe in conjunction with All The Presidents Men (which would fit the MO for going back to previous 2 disc SE releases ala Wild Bunch, Dog Day Afternoon, etc)?

I got mine at Wal-Mart.:D
As did I, Hobbit.

See posts from yesterday.

Thread rolled back. Some legitimate posts (though very few) may have been lost in the rollback.

Off topic and bickering posts removed.

Suspensions issued.
Yup. I lost some very astute, quality posts there.

Not to worry. After all, it's really my modesty that makes me so GREAT!

:)

I agree with this but also I do agree that if catalog prices are more attractive say consistantly under twenty dollars it could help the cause.

Art
No doubt

I differ with you on this.;)

In an ideal world, I would like to see a restored title. But if a studio doesn't think a re mastering is justified, I would still rather see a classic movie re-released in HD DVD or Blu-ray with the best master they have available, warts and all.:)

As long as its better than the DVD, I would like access to the best it can be ,so I have the best version for my home theater.


I agree too, very few have anything nice to say about the import of THE FOG (80), but on a side-by-side with the upconverted DVD, it's sharper, more detailed, has bolder color, better blacks, and holds more detail in it's blacks. If someone had released an SD DVD looking this much better it would be considered a necessary upgrade by the films fans.

Sometimes I think the studios hold back vintage catalog titles because technophile geeks can't wait to dog them for not looking like they were shot yesterday, totally disregarding whether or not they are a significant step up from the SD DVD, and 9.75 times out of 10 they are.

People familiar with these titles and their history on film and video tent to be a lot more grateful just to get the thing looking a lot better than before, IMO dam-nice will do just fine.

I agree with this but also I do agree that if catalog prices are more attractive say consistantly under twenty dollars it could help the cause.

Art

This is a good point with catalog titles and new releases. If you notice what the best selling movies are on BOGO weeks.

IMHO, pricing of hardware is moot at this point, under $400 for both formats. Price of software is where its at. The street price of a new release should be $19.99 and catalog titles at $12.99. No sales, No deals. Just reasonable pricing.

I agree too, very few have anything nice to say about the import of THE FOG (80), but on a side-by-side with the upconverted DVD, it's sharper, more detailed, has bolder color, better blacks, and holds more detail in it's blacks. If someone had released an SD DVD looking this much better it would be considered a necessary upgrade by the films fans.

Sometimes I think the studios hold back vintage catalog titles because technophile geeks can't wait to dog them for not looking like they were shot yesterday, totally disregarding whether or not they are a significant step up from the SD DVD, and 9.75 times out of 10 they are.

People familiar with these titles and their history on film and video tent to be a lot more grateful just to get the thing looking a lot better than before, IMO dam-nice will do just fine.

Mutnity On The Bounty - GREAT film - Brando at his best - the transfer is amazing, one of the few Ultra Panavision movies (only 10) ever made . . . sold 632 copies:(

Lee, what is the break even point on a release for HDM. How much does the production cost of the master, mixing, menu production, artwork, blah...blah...blah..

I am not talking about the difference for production of the actual disc for hd/blu ray. I don't want to start that discussion. I am talking about the cost of bringing an older movie to market.

632 copies of mutiny on the bounty is pretty pathetic. I wouldn't blame a studio for not releasing an older catalog title.

a few more very likelys to see release next year (apologies for not being able to think of them all at once)

- The Godfather (supposedly due in the summer- it's currently being restored with the help of Spielberg and Robert Harris)
- Indiana Jones trilogy (fall release to tie in with the day and date for Crystal Skull)
- Grease (was originally scheduled for 06, but 2008 will be the 30th anniversary)
- all the Paramounts that were postponed this year including Saturday Night Fever (day and date with Grease?), Flashdance (ditto?), Chinatown, An Officer And A Gentleman

its slow going, but hell, at the end of 2008, after only 2 and 1/2 years, I have no doubt we will have 5 times the 'quality' titles that DVD had by the end of 1999

- Indiana Jones trilogy (fall release to tie in with the day and date for Crystal Skull)


Has this been reported or is it just wishful thinking?

Lee, what is the break even point on a release for HDM. How much does the production cost of the master, mixing, menu production, artwork, blah...blah...blah..

I am not talking about the difference for production of the actual disc for hd/blu ray. I don't want to start that discussion. I am talking about the cost of bringing an older movie to market.

632 copies of mutiny on the bounty is pretty pathetic. I wouldn't blame a studio for not releasing an older catalog title.

I wish I knew how much it cost to take a film out of the can and turn it into a 5" disc. We seem not to be able to get an answer on this.

I do know why. Because some of the "variables" are just that. If a studio has the film elements in good shape then little if any restoration is needed. Here IMO is where the cost can skyrocket. We are told Steven Speilberg has donated millions to restore The Godfather. The Camera Negative was falling apart. And this film was made in the 1970's!

As far as all the other costs - color correction, authoring, Glass masters and such - they should have a constant price that is "fixed."

Mutnity On The Bounty - GREAT film - Brando at his best - the transfer is amazing, one of the few Ultra Panavision movies (only 10) ever made . . . sold 632 copies:(

Honestly, I'm glad you like it and have it (I may get it myself), but I'd always thought it was regarded as a misfire compared to the Gable/Laughton (which I love). Brando always seemed a little miscast to me, and I'm also a Brando fan.

632 copies of mutiny on the bounty is pretty pathetic. I wouldn't blame a studio for not releasing an older catalog title.
Yup. Pretty well says it all.

Just pray for mass adoption. If you install them, they will come.

HD DVD Mutiny on the Bounty (Could be a catalog Blu Ray Title also)
MSRP $29.99
Cost to retailer $15
Production cost of the disc (case,artwork, shrinkwrap, anti theft device) $2.00

They have cleared $13 per disc. 632 @ $13 = $8216.00

Not much money to be made in that little venture. So if it takes 3 million to "clean up" the godfather films, they would have to sell 230,000 copies or 77,000 box sets.

Lee, what is the break even point on a release for HDM. How much does the production cost of the master, mixing, menu production, artwork, blah...blah...blah..

632 copies of mutiny on the bounty is pretty pathetic. I wouldn't blame a studio for not releasing an older catalog title.

I covered this question with Lee at length. It sounds like a lot of the work is being done on releases so they can be put on TV (with the rapid increase in HD channels comes a rapid increase for HD programming). Still, its no where near 632...

I would have thought with all the posts begging for quality catalog releases this community alone would be able to chew up more sales than that.

The truth is they will produce whatever catalog releases they can sell and profit off of. If we as a community won't buy it the onus is on us. Complaining that there aren't enough releases when the sales are at such laughable points seems almost disingenuous. Then to complain about pricing on top of that has to infuriate the studios.

Yesterday Mr. D told us that less than 10 years ago it cost $1.50 per frame for a DI.

Having owned CAV LD - there were 54,000 frames per side. and a 120 minute movie was 4 sides = 216,000 frames. Say the cost (SPECULATION) is now 1/2 - $.75 a frame. That is $162,000 just to do the DI. Does that include all the color correction and such? He alluded that it didn't. And that was literally just an Analog to Digital conversion. We could be talking about $300,000 just to produce the Master Tape from which the Glass Master is cut from. Then we go from there.

HD DVD Mutiny on the Bounty (Could be a catalog Blu Ray Title also)
MSRP $29.99
Cost to retailer $15
Production cost of the disc (case,artwork, shrinkwrap, anti theft device) $2.00

Not much money to be made in that little venture. So if it takes 3 million to "clean up" the godfather films, they would have to sell 230,000 copies or 77,000 box sets.

$2??!??? What? I think this is way low. Especially with a low run (they waive set up costs for large runs but not small ones). If it is a BD25 it might only be off by a factor of two but distribution costs have to be accounted for as well and shipping minimal numbers of disks alone is an expensive endeavor. If it is a BD50 forget about it.

The truth is it is conjecture anyways and probably not a good place to have this conversation.

$2??!??? What? I think this is way low. Especially with a low run (they waive set up costs for large runs but not small ones). If it is a BD25 it might only be off by a factor of two but distribution costs have to be accounted for as well and shipping minimal numbers of disks alone is an expensive endeavor. If it is a BD50 forget about it.

The truth is it is conjecture anyways and probably not a good place to have this conversation.

isn't there some fixed up front per title licensing fee for hdm also?

I covered this question with Lee at length. It sounds like a lot of the work is being done on releases so they can be put on TV (with the rapid increase in HD channels comes a rapid increase for HD programming). Still, its no where near 632...

I would have thought with all the posts begging for quality catalog releases this community alone would be able to chew up more sales than that.

The truth is they will produce whatever catalog releases they can sell and profit off of. If we as a community won't buy it the onus is on us. Complaining that there aren't enough releases when the sales are at such laughable points seems almost disingenuous. Then to complain about pricing on top of that has to infuriate the studios.

BINGO! We have a winner folks!

WE . . the members of AVS represent the EA market. WE were the first to buy into HDM. Just like WE were the first to buy LD and then DVD.

If WE don't "birth" a format . . or a movie . . who will? The format will be a stillborn.

So now WE are left with the issue of . . "well I really don't care for that movie" for whatever reasons (and all apply) . . . so look what happened. And Grand Prix and Battle Of The Bulge were not far ahead of the 632 number.

Hell! - Look at 2001 - "another" Blade Runner - you can discuss his movie till the end of time and you will NEVER get 100% of the people to agree on certain issues.

And 2001 sold a WHOPPING 6300 . . . ON BOTH FORMATS!

And there are reasons for this - they are plain as day. The demographics of the HD movie player owner and his desired selection of movies, versus the HT EA.
Is there anyone here on this thread who owned LD and DIDN't jump to DVD within 12 months of SI?

HD DVD Mutiny on the Bounty (Could be a catalog Blu Ray Title also)
MSRP $29.99
Cost to retailer $15
Production cost of the disc (case,artwork, shrinkwrap, anti theft device) $2.00

They have cleared $13 per disc. 632 @ $13 = $8216.00

Not much money to be made in that little venture. So if it takes 3 million to "clean up" the godfather films, they would have to sell 230,000 copies or 77,000 box sets.

I still think the studios have been and continue to to clean up and make high-def masters for HD syndication, and pretty-soon, archival storage. When Ted Turner got the keys to the MGM vaults, he had the works preserved and reprinted right down to newsreels and travel loges, and only a fraction of these efforts were ever put out on home video. HD mastering has just got be kind of general maintenance at this juncture, because the days of 480 lpi are numbered IMO.

Sorry, my post here got cut from last night

Raging Bull
The Exorcise
Battleship Potemkin


We're missing some gems in the silent and horror genres I think.

HD DVD Mutiny on the Bounty (Could be a catalog Blu Ray Title also)
MSRP $29.99
Cost to retailer $15
Production cost of the disc (case,artwork, shrinkwrap, anti theft device) $2.00

They have cleared $13 per disc. 632 @ $13 = $8216.00

Then there's the money from the SD DVD re-issue.

And the money from selling the new High Def print to TV stations.

They found the missing framing episode, so they'd probably have done a new SD DVD anyway.

At this point I'm sure the studios realise that they can't just put out new titles - they have to put out a bit of a mix. If one of their 'disasters' selld 632 copies and breaks even, or at least doesn't lose much, they can't be too worried.

BTW, may I offer another perspective?

I bought Mutiny on the Bounty (it's superb, by the way), but only about a month ago, despite having a HD DVD player since the start of the year. It just wasn't top of my shopping list, and I'm sure that'll be true for 95% of the people who end up buying it.

Subsequently, with hundreds of thousands more players being sold, I'm sure sales won't stop at 632.

BTW, can I ask where/when the 632 figure comes from? Cheers.

Steve W

I still think the studios have been and continue to to clean up and make high-def masters for HD syndication, and pretty-soon, archival storage. When Ted Turner got the keys to the MGM vaults, he had the works preserved and reprinted right down to newsreels and travel loges, and only a fraction of these efforts were ever put out on home video. HD mastering has just got be kind of general maintenance at this juncture, because the days of 480 lpi are numbered IMO.

Excellent point!

Even if the initial HDM sales are less than awe inspiring, there are other avenues for these new masters. In 2008, there will be over 100 HD channels available from multiple providers. Why, because we do want content for these new wonderful displays. The battle is racing to reach these numbers.

HD versions of all of the classic channels are coming. HD on demand is growing. Maybe I am giving the studies too much credit, but I think they know they need more content, fast. An HD storm is coming...

On the HDM front, I have changed my attitudes since DVDs. I bought many more of them because you could not rent them in the early days. Now I have NetFlix. Terribly slow, but still and option. I have also developed an aversion to looking at all those DVDs on the shelf. I have given a ton away.

For HDM, I will limit my purchases to the movies I wished I had been able to see in the theater and classics. There are about 20 or so in this thread that I would buy in a heart beat. The rest, I rent.

Personally, I think the format war ends when their are sub $300 dual-format players, this time next year.

- Rich

Honestly, I'm glad you like it and have it (I may get it myself), but I'd always thought it was regarded as a misfire compared to the Gable/Laughton (which I love). Brando always seemed a little miscast to me, and I'm also a Brando fan.

At one point, when I still owned a TV, all I could get clearly over the air was the local PBS station. They ran the Brando version of Mutiny several times within a week, always letterboxed, and I ended up watching it each time. I loved the Gable original, and had heard nothing but bad things about the Brando version.
Thing is, even though I had just seen it a day or two before, I was completely caught up in it everytime they re-ran it.
I've come to honestly believe that it is a seriously underrated epic- and most of the negativity that surrounds it is the lingering by product of the films contemporary negative publicity (over star egos/ production costs, etc). None of which has any bearing on the films actual merits. I don't think the film ever got a fair shake and it's ripe for reevaluation.

As much as I still love the orginal, and am a fan of Gable, I think Brando gives a far more interesting and logical performance. What would be more likely- that an officer at that time would be a rugged independant he-man, or a foppish, political animal? I'm not familiar with the historical events beyond the film interpretations, but in terms of sheer drama, I find it much more fascinating and engaging that Christian here in this version has an actual arc. He is something of a clown, but comes by his heroism or at least passion honestly. Also Howard's Bligh is an a-hole, but he is not totally without sympathy. He is a class conscious snob, and a martinet with poor leadership skills, but his actions are not always without sense.
I also think the writing in general is top shelf and the production values are off the charts.
Needless to say, I think its a fantastic film and I feel soooooo lucky that Warner kicked this one out at the time it did, because otherwise we may not have gotten it for a long time. And the ultra wide ratio makes the HD resolution much appreciated.

I think the $20 retail it costs is a pittance compared to its true value.
It's defintiely a source of pride, not only in my modest collection of HDMs, but across my 800+ dvds as well.

I also think the Gibson Hopkins version has value too. Its one of the rare instances where I don't think there is a real clunker in any of the interpretations.

as for the person who asked about Indiana Jones- a Scandinavian rep from Paramount was the source of the Godfather and IJ dates (summer and fall respectively). This was information for the release in that part of the world, but it would stand to reason that these would be world wide releases as well.

I still think the studios have been and continue to to clean up and make high-def masters for HD syndication, and pretty-soon, archival storage.

Thats a good point. So they are doing HD scans of older movies for TV anyway. Didn't think about that.

$2??!??? What? I think this is way low. Especially with a low run (they waive set up costs for large runs but not small ones). If it is a BD25 it might only be off by a factor of two but distribution costs have to be accounted for as well and shipping minimal numbers of disks alone is an expensive endeavor. If it is a BD50 forget about it.

The truth is it is conjecture anyways and probably not a good place to have this conversation.

That is why I did not want to discuss replication issues.

if you do a search on this board you might find the post about the price breakdowns.

IIrc, the glass masters were $2500 for HD DVD and $5000 for Bd (whatever the HD DVD cost was, Bd was double). It may have been $5000 and $10000. Also, I believe that publishing on Blu-ray involves some mandatory for encryption that is volutantry on HD DVD....and is also in the range of another $1K or so.

I think this info was given out by Don May Jr of Synapse. They release cult titles, and he's said the costs at the moment are just way too high for a small outfit like his (which makes me wonder how BCI thinks they can make a profit with things like Galaxina)

I also think the Gibson Hopkins version has value too. Its one of the rare instances where I don't think there is a real clunker in any of the interpretations.
From my research into the topic, I believe this version to be the more accurate. Christian was not quite the hero that Brando portrayed and Bligh was not anymore brutal than the average ship captain of his day. Of course he was absolved of wrongdoing, BTW and was seen as a supreme navigator and motivator for steering his lifeboat to civilization and saving some of his men.

I also think Hopkins portrayed Bligh properly as a bit overzealous; a man desperate to make his mark, possibly at the expense of the well-being of his crew.

Now as far as Gable, I must admit that I have not seen it, but it's long been near the top of my Queue. ;)

Thread rolled back. Some legitimate posts (though very few) may have been lost in the rollback.Let me guess, mine wasn't one of those?


My bad. I'm sorry. I'll be good.

if you do a search on this board you might find the post about the price breakdowns.

IIrc, the glass masters were $2500 for HD DVD and $5000 for Bd (whatever the HD DVD cost was, Bd was double). It may have been $5000 and $10000.

Taking the higher of those ($5,000) for a HD DVD glass master.

If you sell 1,000 copies, that's only $5 each. Well, less than that. Because, of course, we're talking about extra - over and above SD DVD. I'm sure SD DVD glass masters aren't free.

It seems HD DVDs end up less discounted than SD. Look at the latest Harry Potter at Amazon.

HD DVD $36 reduced to $25
SD DVD $35 reduced to $22

I've seen lots of figures here recently, but I've seen little to convince me that a HD DVD can't break even at 1,000 units.

Steve W

ps. I presume that 632 copies of Mutiny on the Bounty is just in the US?

SW

Taking the higher of those ($5,000) for a HD DVD glass master.

If you sell 1,000 copies, that's only $5 each. Well, less than that. Because, of course, we're talking about extra - over and above SD DVD. I'm sure SD DVD glass masters aren't free.

It seems HD DVDs end up less discounted than SD. Look at the latest Harry Potter at Amazon.

HD DVD $36 reduced to $25
SD DVD $35 reduced to $22

I've seen lots of figures here recently, but I've seen little to convince me that a HD DVD can't break even at 1,000 units.

Steve W

ps. I presume that 632 copies of Mutiny on the Bounty is just in the US?

SW

Some how we just lumped HDM with DVD. Were there special/new editions for:

Mutnity on the Bounty
Grand Prix
Battle of the Bulge
Robin Hood

?

Some how we just lumped HDM with DVD. Were there special/new editions for:

Mutnity on the Bounty
Grand Prix
Battle of the Bulge
Robin Hood

?

Mutiny on the Bounty - Two-Disc Special Edition DVD released same month as HD version (11/2006)
Grand Prix - Two-Disc Special Edition DVD released 07/2006, HD version released 09/2006

Mutnity On The Bounty - GREAT film - Brando at his best - the transfer is amazing, one of the few Ultra Panavision movies (only 10) ever made . . . sold 632 copies:( I will beat you for your pessimism. :rolleyes: :p :D

That was months and months ago, when it was only available around full MSRP $28.95, it was displayed at few retail locations, and before the dramatic growth of HD DVD hardware sales during the past few months.

It also is based on the Nielsen /Videoscan numbers , not the studio, and doesn't count the non Nielsen captured sales from the specialty retailers that also sold a lot of the earlier hardware. If its from the Blu-ray BDA slide, they had no incentive to be accurate or adjust if the Nielsen numbers helped their cause.

Besides Netflix and Blockbuster online probably bought more than that just for rental use, and Hollywood Video eventually will too.

Give it a little time. :)

Some how we just lumped HDM with DVD. Were there special/new editions for:

Mutnity on the Bounty
Grand Prix
Battle of the Bulge
Robin Hood

?

Let's see...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512XDW83RSL._AA240_.jpg
Released 2003

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/610lPmuGHpL._AA240_.jpg
Released 2005

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EEA7XTGSL._AA240_.jpg
Released 2006

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51BZYVXEH0L._AA240_.jpg
Released 2006

Now I'll bet you a fiver those SD DVD spec eds have the same extras and were taken from a (then) freshly struck high def master.

Looks to me like the only extra cost of the HD DVD is the new glass master, the extra it costs per disc to press a HD DVD over an SD DVD, and creating the new menus.

BTW, many of thise are 2-disc spec eds, whilst the HD DVDs are only 1 disc.

Knowing what we've found out here, I still bet they can break even on the HD DVD if they sell 1,000 copies.

What do you think?

Steve W

I've had some sources tell me that if the encoding was part of normal work flow and no restoration was used/required, the actual cost to turn something into VC-1 and press and package it was well under $50,000 per catalog title and some cases almost half that. Most HD DVD runs were making discs in well over 20,000 unit batches.

Also that a break even point at $20 retail pricing was around 5000-10000 units for the lifetime of the title, and if it sold for more than that less units were required.

But even at $50,000 per title, and zero sales for say 20 catalog titles, thats only $1,000,000 which is a rounding error for a larger studio or a marketing expense and investment to kick off the high def formats.

Their was a conscious decision on the part of the HD DVD releasing studios to release some older titles last year and this year, with little expectation of sales right away, to enlarge the available catalog and throw a bone to cinema buffs.

Retail support , I don't think, developed as they expected, but I think the studios are a lot more patient here than we are giving them credit for, as they know the installed hardware bases were small and now are rapidly getting larger, and retail support will also steadily increase.

Like I said earlier , my local Circuit City sold 5 units of Forbidden Planet in a couple weeks when they increased their HD DVD display to 100 titles and had the buy 2 get one free sale. Obviously a fluke, maybe a fan club, maybe the local University had a lecture, maybe it was just on cable, maybe new titles placed at eye level, maybe the artwork looked good, etc but some more copies must have sold somewhere else in the USA.

Increase the size of the hardware base to mass market levels, show more inventory at retail and drop the prices and more sales will follow.

Back in June NPD reported 1/20 DVD sales were either HD DVD or Blu-ray machines. In a couple VB , HMM and Twice articles, some retailers are saying in the last month 25-50% of all DVD unit sales are now HDM set tops.

When DVD went mainstream all sorts of niche titles found their markets. With more sockets out there, eventually classics will find someone willing to buy them also.

A list of catalog/classics broken down by catagory...

Examples of films I would buy again in HD

Graduate
Dr Zhivago
Casablanca
Sand Pebbles
Patton
Longest Day
Sabateur
Searchers
Journey to the Center of the Earth
Long Goodbye (altman)
Mcabe and Mrs Miller

Examples of films I wouldn't

North by NW
Citizen Kane

Films I haven't bought yet but would in HD

Magnificent Men...Flying machines
Planet of the Apes (original)
Bridge over River Kwai
Amarcord

Films currently unavailable I would buy in HD

El Cid
No Highway in the Sky
Ruggles of Red Gap

I differ with you on this.;)

In an ideal world, I would like to see a restored title. But if a studio doesn't think a re mastering is justified, I would still rather see a classic movie re-released in HD DVD or Blu-ray with the best master they have available, warts and all.:)

As long as its better than the DVD, I would like access to the best it can be ,so I have the best version for my home theater.

I don't care if its not perfect and I understand that the source quality may have some issues, if its a favorite movie I want it in HDM.

If its $14.99 , I can understand if its not remastered for some titles. its not so much the moneys wasted on a imperfect double/triple dip to me.

If its even a marginal upgrade of a favorite title, versus never ever a HDM release, because its not worth being carefully restored, I'll take it anyway over a DVD version, jut because it gives my equipment more to work with. I'm not frustrated if its better than the DVD.

I realize the source for older movies may vary a lot, and I don't expect a niche 60's movie to look like a recent release.

Well, I didn't figure very many people would agree with me, but that's okay. I have no need to convince anyone; just expressing my opinion.

But I suppose I will take a moment to at least explain my opinion a little better..

As an enthusiast, I too would like access to the best that's available. But as a person who would like at least one of these formats to succeed, I'm not sure how good an idea it is for HDM releases to look little better than DVDs.

I was talking to a kid the other night who said that HDM didn't look any better than DVD. I spent a long time asking him about his set up, and it took me about 10 minutes to finally ask the right question. The golden question was: "What movies have you watched." He said Full Metal Jacket, which he said was his all time favorite movie. So here's a guy who was ready to write off HDM entirely because the movie he'd watched did not look appreciably better than DVD... This can't be good for HDM.

Of course, one can only surmise that this guy would have eventually tried another title, but what of all the people who are casually introduced to the format at a friend's house and go home with a bad impression of it?

The major selling point of HDM is that it looks (and sounds) better than DVD. And no, I don't mean that the HDM of a particular movie should look better than its DVD counterpart because that's not a difference that the masses are going to appreciate. Yes, I understand that some movies (like 28 Days Later, for example) come from inferior stock and can never look appreciably better than the best DVD encodes... But I guess what I'm saying is that it makes sense, from a marketing perspective, to make sure that HDMs look consistently superior to DVDs to whatever extent possible, especially in the early days of the format.

Just my two cents. Take it for what it's worth.

I just don't see the value in flooding the shelves with catalog titles that only afficianados can discern from regular DVD -- and that's happening more than it should.

And it doesn't help that the "free titles" that one receives upon purchase of a new player often have less than stellar PQ.

I love The Big Lebowski, but the HDM release doesn't really look much better than DVD to me, although I am told that it looks much better than its original DVD release... Bully for me, I guess.

Mutnity On The Bounty - GREAT film - Brando at his best - the transfer is amazing, one of the few Ultra Panavision movies (only 10) ever made . . . sold 632 copies:(

:eek: i'm one of the 632 owners!!

(as well as the owner of most pre-80s titles on HD DVDs)

:eek: i'm one of the 632 owners!!

(as well as the owner of most pre-80s titles on HD DVDs)

:D - wonder who the other 630 are;)

:eek: i'm one of the 632 owners!!



Me too ,that is scary. I guess we could have found out that there were only two sold.:eek::D

Art

Me too ,that is scary. I guess we could have found out that there were only two sold.:eek::D

Art

Hey - me too! I own this great HD DVD!:D

That makes 3:o

This is a good point with catalog titles and new releases. If you notice what the best selling movies are on BOGO weeks.

IMHO, pricing of hardware is moot at this point, under $400 for both formats. Price of software is where its at. The street price of a new release should be $19.99 and catalog titles at $12.99. No sales, No deals. Just reasonable pricing.

Hard to disagree with this!

Mutnity On The Bounty - GREAT film - Brando at his best - the transfer is amazing, one of the few Ultra Panavision movies (only 10) ever made . . . sold 632 copies:(

Are you kidding?:eek:

:D - wonder who the other 630 are;)

Well paint me blue and call me a turnip! :o

I'm jest agonna haft to put ma money ware my mouth is! ;)

I'm buying it!

Make that 633!! :D

Hey - me too! I own this great HD DVD!:D

That makes 3:o

4

Hey, I did my part. I asked for Star Trek TOS for Christmas and not much else. It is a shoe in. And here I told her to order it quickly in case they run out :p

- Rich

Mr Robohump,

I took a chance on HD-DVD. No Guarantee of a future but with your outlook I almost wonder, have you ever considered that as a human you are not guaranteed any future. Like your examples, a truck could hit you head on tomorrow and no more Mr Robohump. Life is to short to worry about future proofing our electronic formats.

That is the most well reasoned advice for getting into HD. I bought a Blu-ray player and love it. It isn't even 1.1. And I love it. If a meteor falls on my head tomorrow, I was happy today.

:eek: i'm one of the 632 owners!!

(as well as the owner of most pre-80s titles on HD DVDs) I own it too. :D Right here on my media shelf.

Bought it from Amazon last April after I watched it from Netflix. Does that account for two more copies?

5 and I rented 6

Originally Posted by Scott1094

...I took a chance on HD-DVD. No Guarantee of a future but with your outlook I almost wonder, have you ever considered that as a human you are not guaranteed any future. Like your examples, a truck could hit you head on tomorrow and no more Mr Robohump. Life is to short to worry about future proofing our electronic formats. I have gotten now more than a year of enjoyment out of my HD DVD players,and have watched now 100's of HD DVD and upconverted standard movies on it at a better quality than I ever had available before.

I probably average 7-movies a week or more, even with travel, and I have dozens and dozens of HD DVD movies queued up to watch. It will take me years to watch all thats available , let alone re-watching hem and going through the extras.

Life is short, watch HD movies.

I forgot about The Sand Pebbles. Netflix even had a Bd listing for that ("save" with a 9/07 release date iirc) but I don't know if they still do.
Where Eagles Dare is another good one. I pulled out the dvd recently and it looked quite nice- save for what was either color breathing or artifacting in the shadows.
There might be some visible haloing on this one too.
I would love to see Sony release The Deep.


I watched The Deep last night on TMN HD here in Canada. It looked great! I am much more excited about the possibility of catalogue titles on HDM than many of the lousy movies coming out nowadays with tired scripts and overpaid actors. There are some gems every year; but so many of the really good movies I enjoy that are newer are either indie flicks, Bollywood, or foreign.

Just like music there is a ton of great older stuff in the back catalogues. Between my movie package on satellite that has allowed me to watch so many older flicks and my DVDs loaned from my library I have discovered a whack of amazing older flicks that I would love to have the best possible home version of.

The Deep looked absolutely wonderful and had nothing to be ashamed of despite being 30 years old (I was 7 when this came out). Count me in for The Big Sleep, Citizen Kane, and many, many other great movies that were out long before I was born.

Then there are a whack of 1980s movies that I just need to have in HDM because of what they represent during my adolecent years.

Bring on the classics!:)

I own it too. :D Right here on my media shelf.

Bought it from Amazon last April after I watched it from Netflix. Does that account for two more copies?

5 and I rented 6

I don't know but I think we need a T-Shirt.:D

Art

Well, I just became 633RD owner of Mutiny.

This dam HD cronyism is gonna blow my budget.

I own it too. :D Right here on my media shelf.

Bought it from Amazon last April after I watched it from Netflix. Does that account for two more copies?

5 and I rented 6
7 I own it as well:D

:eek: i'm one of the 632 owners!!

(as well as the owner of most pre-80s titles on HD DVDs)
Me too (8), plus I am pretty sure I have every single pre-1980s title on both formats thus far. Who else here can say that?

Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) WB
Casablanca (1942) WB
Forbidden Planet (1956) WB
The Searchers (1956) WB
Jailhouse Rock (1957) WB
Rio Bravo (1959) WB
Spartacus (1960) Universal
Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) WB
Viva Las Vegas (1964) WB
Battle of the Bulge (1965) WB
Grand Prix (1966) WB
The Dirty Dozen (1967) WB
2001 (1968) WB
Bullitt (1968) WB
The Wild Bunch (1969) WB
A Clockwork Orange (1971) WB
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (1971) WB
Cowboys (1972) WB
Deliverance (1972) WB
The Gettaway (1972) WB
The Sting (1973) Universal
Enter the Dragon (1973) WB
Blazing Saddles (1974) WB
Dog Day Afternoon (1975) WB
The Deer Hunter (1978) Universal
Halloween (1978) Starz
The Warriors (1979) Paramount
The Jerk (1979) Universal
The Shining (1980) WB

Amazing thing about this list is that with very few exceptions, most titles are WB releases. If you are a classic film lover, Warner has been the best studio and is absolutely a must.

And before anyone gets their pantys in a wad, 20 Million Miles to Earth (1957) was released by Sony today.

Yes, buying that exact player at that exact time and only renting is a low-to-no risk proposition. I won't argue that. But where does that bring HDM? An entire format of renters, not buying anything?

There is hesitation to build up libraries for a format that could go belly up 6 months from now. That applies to either HD DVD or Blu-Ray. If there were a unified format supported by all studios, there would not be that hesitation.



This sums up my situation nicely. I would feel a lot more confortable getting into HDM and buying catalogue titles if there were only one format. I am so tempted to pick up an A2/A3; but this "war" would likely make me want to rent HD-DVD for the most part and not purchase until I see that either both formats are going to co-exist or one will bow out in the next year or two.

I personally hate renting. When I do rent they typically are titles I end up buying anyways.

This sums up my situation nicely. I would feel a lot more confortable getting into HDM and buying catalogue titles if there were only one format. I am so tempted to pick up an A2/A3; but this "war" would likely make me want to rent HD-DVD for the most part and not purchase until I see that either both formats are going to co-exist or one will bow out in the next year or two.

I personally hate renting. When I do rent they typically are titles I end up buying anyways.


Better go check out the HD News thread in this Forum. Maybe it will help you decide.

I agree with you Kosty.

oh yeah- since the sequel to Casino Roylae is due out next fall, we're finally likely to get at least a couple of Bond films on Bd. Though what I expect is just a couple with the films release, and then a couple more with the video release of the new film in the spring. I will be shocked if they put the whole catalog out there by mid 2009. I just can't see that happening.

This one is a real head scratcher for me. Didn't they just re-master/restore all of the bond films for the box set DVDs? The HD master is already done so why Sony isn't pushing these Bond films on Blu-Ray is beyond me. I would be in line for all 20 (23 if you include Never Say Never Again and both Casino Royales).

Strange to have such a high profile property all ready to do and do nothing with it... Maybe they are planning a big splash for 2008 when the next Bond comes out...

This one is a real head scratcher for me. Didn't they just re-master/restore all of the bond films for the box set DVDs? The HD master is already done so why Sony isn't pushing these Bond films on Blu-Ray is beyond me. I would be in line for all 20 (23 if you include Never Say Never Again and both Casino Royales).

Strange to have such a high profile property all ready to do and do nothing with it... Maybe they are planning a big splash for 2008 when the next Bond comes out...

Maybe they're still hung up on BD+ issues? However, I'm guessing Universal did HD masters for the huge SD DVD Hitchcock box they did, but still no Hitchcock either. Sad to say all this smacks of plans scaled back all around.:(

Mutnity On The Bounty - GREAT film - Brando at his best - the transfer is amazing, one of the few Ultra Panavision movies (only 10) ever made . . . sold 632 copies:(

Hey Lee,

we were on different sides with regard to a discussion on Hamlet some time ago, but we definitely like our 70mm movies :) So far I have bought all large format HDM releases and plan to continue buying all of them even in cases where I don't like their transfers (Spartacus, Battle of the Bulge). Mutiny is a great movie IMO and its visual splendor more than offsets what little advantages in acting the older Mutiny version might have on it.

BTW: I saw Mutiny in 70 mm Ultra Panavision last year on a 50 ft 120 degree curved screen and it was a fantastic experience even thought the colors of the print were VERY faded.

So in that spirit I kindly request the seldomly mentioned large format Bronston epics to be released on HDM:

El Cid
King of Kings
Fall of the Roman Empire

John Paul Jones
55 Days in Peking
Circus World

Of which I think the first three are some good and maybe even great movies, the other three I have heard lesser things about and I have not watched them yet.

El Cid by the way is already announced in just another new HDM format - no kidding :)

Oliver

1953 - Beneath The 12 Mile Reef

Same year - How to Marry a Millionaire and The Robe.

Lee, just as a nitpick, my recollection from film school is that the Robe was the first.

I realize the factors today are somewhate different than 10 years ago, but does anyone remember what the first couple batches of DVD releases were? I have a foggy memory of the earliest batch including Mortal Kombat and maybe a Jackie Chan film, but Wizard of Oz must have been pretty quick out of the gate, since I have two or three different editions of it, and the newest one is at least five years old.

Weren't Titanic and Blade Runner the first breakout DVD titles?

Weren't Titanic and Blade Runner the first breakout DVD titles?

Blade Runner was one of the first releases, but Titanic didn't come out until 1999. I remember a 1998 article from Yahoo wondering whether Titanic could "save" DVD, but it wasn't released that fall alongside the VHS and laserdisc.

Ugh- That first release of BR was awful - it was "window boxed" - bars on all 4 sides. Just traded it in because I am getting the HD version - got $1.00 credit for it at Game Stop. About what it was worth.

And the same for The Wild Bunch - my last "flipper" DVD. ($1.00 credit)

I've had some sources tell me that if the encoding was part of normal work flow and no restoration was used/required, the actual cost to turn something into VC-1 and press and package it was well under $50,000 per catalog title and some cases almost half that. Most HD DVD runs were making discs in well over 20,000 unit batches.

Kosty, are you saying that, if a High Def master already exists, it costs $50,000 to compress that master to VC-1 for use on a HD DVD or BD?

That sounds a trifle steep.

I've heard it said that it can take 3 weeks. Well even if the encoder is being paid $50,000 a year, that's only $3,000.

There's the hardware to pay for, but the studios have alreadyu bought that, and I'm damn sure it'll make its money back for them more quickly by releasing more films on high def, not less.

As I've said, SKY HD in the UK (which has c.300,000 customers) showed Fletch in high def (not out on disc). This will have needed a high def encode, and I'm damn sure Sky won't be paying $50,000 a shot for every film it shows on its high def film channels.

I can see it costing $50,000 from film to finished product, but then we go back to the cost of making the master (which is needed for the SD version anyway, as well as TV), etc.

Steve W

Just remembered another title that is expected in 2008-
A Little Princess (the Alfonso Cuaron version). Looking forward to it too, as it is a great family film, in the best sense of that phrase- and will be a nice respite from the collection of animated poop and fart joke fests that make up 90% of the family fare on HDM now.

Fall Of the Roman Empire would make a nice addition too. The Weinsteins, who own the rights now, are releasing El Cid, and it's frustrating they haven't announced an HDM version.

Lee, just as a nitpick, my recollection from film school is that the Robe was the first.

You sir are correct

1. The Robe - 9/16/53
2. How To Marry a Millionaire - 11/5/53
3. Beneath The 12 Mile Reef - 12/2/53

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046247/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045551/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045891/

Got to keep remembering that Carr/Hayes book has many inaccuracies in it.:o

Me too ,that is scary. I guess we could have found out that there were only two sold.:eek::D

Art
Don't worry, I got that one too. However, the only way I could was online as the local B&M stores weren't and still don't have them. Not Robin Hood nor Mutiny or Forbidden Planet. I hadn't used online ordering much but now I spend more there than in store. Forbidden Planet is very good. We just try to do our part, I guess that's all we can.

This one is a real head scratcher for me. Didn't they just re-master/restore all of the bond films for the box set DVDs? The HD master is already done so why Sony isn't pushing these Bond films on Blu-Ray is beyond me. I would be in line for all 20 (23 if you include Never Say Never Again and both Casino Royales).

Strange to have such a high profile property all ready to do and do nothing with it... Maybe they are planning a big splash for 2008 when the next Bond comes out...

I don't think that the David Niven Casino Royale would be in with the other bond movies, and I sure hope that when they do release them it won't be in that format where you have to buy boxed sets that contain movies in a random order like with the DVD (I really would just want the Connery ones). Finally, there was a statement from MGM where they addressed this, but I can't recall what was said other than it is in the works.

Don't worry, I got that one too. However, the only way I could was online as the local B&M stores weren't and still don't have them. Not Robin Hood nor Mutiny or Forbidden Planet. I hadn't used online ordering much but now I spend more there than in store. Forbidden Planet is very good. We just try to do our part, I guess that's all we can.
Which one only sold 2?

My first Amazon order last month after getting an A3 included both Robin Hood and Forbidden Planet (never was a fan of Mutiny on the Bounty). Also got 2001, Casablanca, The Shining, and Battle of the Bulge.

There's a market for older catalog films on HD but I don't think there are enough players out there yet.

Me too (8), plus I am pretty sure I have every single pre-1980s title on both formats thus far. Who else here can say that?


Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) WB
Casablanca (1942) WB
Forbidden Planet (1956) WB
The Searchers (1956) WB
Rio Bravo (1959) WB
Spartacus (1960) Universal
Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) WB
Grand Prix (1966) WB
The Dirty Dozen (1967) WB
2001 (1968) WB
A Clockwork Orange (1971) WB
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (1971) WB
Deliverance (1972) WB
Enter the Dragon (1973) WB
Blazing Saddles (1974) WB
The Deer Hunter (1978) Universal
The Warriors (1979) Paramount
The Shining (1980) WB

That is my list of them. I don't like Elvis movies (/shudder) and not a huge fan of Westerns (especially John Wayne westerns) but I do love many of the classics. Oddly enough my 2 year old absolutely loves 2001. Scary thing is she likes the apes beating each other to death a bit TOO much as she giggles non stop during that whole scene...But one of the few movies that doesn't involve Dora or Pooh that she will sit through all the way

I realize the factors today are somewhate different than 10 years ago, but does anyone remember what the first couple batches of DVD releases were? I have a foggy memory of the earliest batch including Mortal Kombat and maybe a Jackie Chan film, but Wizard of Oz must have been pretty quick out of the gate, since I have two or three different editions of it, and the newest one is at least five years old.
The latest (and by far the best) SD DVD of OZ was 2005.

For myself

The Searchers
Forbidden Planet
2001 - A Space Odyssey
A Clockwork Orange
Willy Wonka & The Chocolate Factory
The Omega Man
The Shining
The Adventures of Robin Hood
Dog Day Afternoon
Mutiny on the Bounty
Casablanca
The Deer Hunter
Blazing Saddles

It's funny I have a few that are just 1980. So, better than half my disks are pre-81. Anyone have stats on the total number of pre-80's compared to post in whats currently available?

Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) WB
Casablanca (1942) WB
Forbidden Planet (1956) WB
The Searchers (1956) WB
Rio Bravo (1959) WB
Spartacus (1960) Universal
Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) WB
Grand Prix (1966) WB
The Dirty Dozen (1967) WB
2001 (1968) WB
A Clockwork Orange (1971) WB
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (1971) WB
Deliverance (1972) WB
Enter the Dragon (1973) WB
Blazing Saddles (1974) WB
The Deer Hunter (1978) Universal
The Warriors (1979) Paramount
The Shining (1980) WB

That is my list of them. I don't like Elvis movies (/shudder) and not a huge fan of Westerns (especially John Wayne westerns) but I do love many of the classics. Oddly enough my 2 year old absolutely loves 2001. Scary thing is she likes the apes beating each other to death a bit TOO much as she giggles non stop during that whole scene...But one of the few movies that doesn't involve Dora or Pooh that she will sit through all the way

Try Unforgiven and The Wild Bunch. They may spark your interest in Westerns;)

Anyone have stats on the total number of pre-80's compared to post in whats currently available?

Well, I posted all the available titles for both formats that are pre-80s so that's 30 titles out of around 500 that's available over both formats.

I don't think that the David Niven Casino Royale would be in with the other bond movies, and I sure hope that when they do release them it won't be in that format where you have to buy boxed sets that contain movies in a random order like with the DVD (I really would just want the Connery ones). Finally, there was a statement from MGM where they addressed this, but I can't recall what was said other than it is in the works.

I agree about the Niven/Sellers Casino Royale not being in the set. Never Say Never Again wouldn't either as it is not an "official" Bond film. I have all the Bonds on DVD including Never Say Never Again and the Niven/Sellers Casino Royale. I would double dip on the new Casino Royale and select older Bonds. Goldfinger would be my first HDM bond. What an awesome flick!:)

I agree about the Niven/Sellers Casino Royale not being in the set. Never Say Never Again wouldn't either as it is not an "official" Bond film. I have all the Bonds on DVD including Never Say Never Again and the Niven/Sellers Casino Royale. I would double dip on the new Casino Royale and select older Bonds. Goldfinger would be my first HDM bond. What an awesome flick!:)

"Do you expect me to talk Goldfinger? . . . No Mr. Bond . . . I expect you to Die."

One of my favorite all time best movies lines.

Well, I posted all the available titles for both formats that are pre-80s so that's 30 titles out of around 500 that's available over both formats.

So cinema is just about 110 years old, and 6% of HDM accounts for the first 80 years, and 94% accounts for the last 25 years. So why aren't there a lot of classic film collectors supporting HD, IMO because there isn't much HD supporting them.

So cinema is just about 110 years old, and 6% of HDM accounts for the first 80 years, and 94% accounts for the last 25 years. So why aren't there a lot of classic film collectors supporting HD, IMO because there isn't much HD supporting them.

The demographics.

My mothers generation only had cinema to see a movie growing up. She is 81 years young. Think she is interested in HDTV or HDM?

The demographics.

My mothers generation only had cinema to see a movie growing up. She is 81 years young. Think she is interested in HDTV or HDM?

Most of my DVDs predate my own birth, some even your mothers.;)

Kosty, are you saying that, if a High Def master already exists, it costs $50,000 to compress that master to VC-1 for use on a HD DVD or BD?

That sounds a trifle steep.

I've heard it said that it can take 3 weeks. Well even if the encoder is being paid $50,000 a year, that's only $3,000.

There's the hardware to pay for, but the studios have alreadyu bought that, and I'm damn sure it'll make its money back for them more quickly by releasing more films on high def, not less.

As I've said, SKY HD in the UK (which has c.300,000 customers) showed Fletch in high def (not out on disc). This will have needed a high def encode, and I'm damn sure Sky won't be paying $50,000 a shot for every film it shows on its high def film channels.

I can see it costing $50,000 from film to finished product, but then we go back to the cost of making the master (which is needed for the SD version anyway, as well as TV), etc.

Steve W I can see it costing $50,000 from film to finished product, Thats what I meant. :)

From finding the master to shipping out the door. For some titles it can even be be less than $50,000.

If you consider that the compressionists are salaried and they and the equipment has to be doing something anyway, even their time is a fixed not variable cost, if its done in studio or on a fixed contract. If its outsourced the time is more expensive and could be a variable cost .

For a catalog title, with non restoration costs, with an acceptable master being feed into the encoder, accounting for compressionists time, HDi menuing, porting over of standard def bonus materials already used, quality checking to glass mastering to replication costs for a 25,000-50,000 run to creating and packaging to be ready to be shipped. (did I miss anything?).

For a HD DVD DL30GB disc, its not a lot more than a DVD re-release.

Small issue, but since HD DVD and Blu-ray are in standard red cases with an printed insert slipped under the plastic cover, their packaging costs are actually less than some/most DVDs.

Now for a new title that needs new stuff, then its closer to PopcornReady's Warners comment on a few weeks, but most of that time is waiting on single person bottlenecks.

Try Unforgiven and The Wild Bunch. They may spark your interest in Westerns;)

Good recommendations. I don't like westerns but really like those. Also try the Magnificent 7, then into For a Few Dollars More and Fistful of Dollars. It pretty much ends there for me but these make for a really good list (though the HDM thing is out).

There were quite a few statements about earlier Bond films. Does Sony own the distribution rights to all of these? My understanding was that pre-1980 MGM titles were Paramount's (or was it Uni, I completely forgot). Is Bond separate from these titles? What am I missing? I am a Bond fanatic and not having CR has been painful enough. No way I could stay clear of BD and allow all the blu folks enjoy Bond in HD goodness while I suffer. Decisions decisions...

Glad to see we have a quorum of the Mutiny on the Bounty HDM owners here ;)

Try Unforgiven and The Wild Bunch. They may spark your interest in Westerns;)

I have Unforgiven (and it is one of my favorite films) but I dont really see that as a Western. More of a drama in a western setting. No real "guys just riding around shooting people cause they can". I guess my biggest problem is that I tie westerns into John Wayne (and "comedy" westerns (which I like) to Clint Eastwood) and I have a deep dislike for John Wayne.

Most of my DVDs predate my own birth, some even your mothers.;)

Interestingly ,as I've looked over my shelves, I see that most of mine now predate my birth as well and I'm no spring chicken.

Art

I have Unforgiven (and it is one of my favorite films) but I dont really see that as a Western. More of a drama in a western setting. No real "guys just riding around shooting people cause they can". I guess my biggest problem is that I tie westerns into John Wayne (and "comedy" westerns (which I like) to Clint Eastwood) and I have a deep dislike for John Wayne.

:D - If the guy wears a big hat, has a gun belt on and sits on a horse - it's a Western.

Try Open Range - terrific Western. Also Crossfire Trail with Tom Selleck and Jerimiah Johnson with Robert Redford. All great "westerns" and all available on DVD.

:D - If the guy wears a big hat, has a gun belt on and sits on a horse - it's a Western.

Try Open Range - terrific Western. Also Crossfire Trail with Tom Selleck and Jerimiah Johnson with Robert Redford. All great "westerns" and all available on DVD.

Star Wars: A New Hope... One of the best westerns ever made!:cool:

Star Wars: A New Hope... One of the best westerns ever made!:cool:

SORRY! . . No Big Hat:D

SORRY! . . No Big Hat:D

well... darth's "hat" was pretty big... :p

well... darth's "hat" was pretty big... :p

OH ALL RIGHT . . . because Burt Reynolds wore a "big hat" in Smokey And The Bandit . . . was that a western?

:D

OH ALL RIGHT . . . because Burt Reynolds wore a "big hat" in Smokey And The Bandit . . . was that a western?

:D

well... i guess you have me there... ;)

but burt did get a certain, ummm, "benefit", when he took his hat off... :D

:D - If the guy wears a big hat, has a gun belt on and sits on a horse - it's a Western.

Try Open Range - terrific Western. Also Crossfire Trail with Tom Selleck and Jerimiah Johnson with Robert Redford. All great "westerns" and all available on DVD.

I agree that Open Range is a terrific film..and it even has Kevin Costner in it.. a good film with Kevin Costner (who woulda thunk it)

And Smoky and the Bandit (which oddly enough my wife and I watched 2 days ago in HD :) ) is certainly not a western (even though it also has a basset hound which having the word "hound" in it helps the western motif.. Now if he had SPIT on said hound then I would have to go Western :)

Now that we have thrown this WAY off topic (again) I am finding it rather odd that HDM is actually making me WANT to own more classic films. I am not by nature a classic film person (more of a slapstick comedy ala Airplane kinda guy) I must have watched Adventures of Robin Hood 30 times since I bought it. Had never seen the film before I bought it and actually bought the disc to see the WB cartoons in HD :) but that started the ball rolling and I am now picking them up as fast as I can (and they release them). I never really enjoyed a lot of the classics simply because I didnt like the out of focus, gritty look that many of them had (not artistic intent just BAD masters type of presentation) but with the care many of these have received I can actually enjoy the plot elements and acting and not be so annoyed by the huge scratches running across the screen constantly.

The Quiet Man - My favorite John Wayne and John Ford film. The Irish country and Maureen O'Hara would be a treat in HD.
The Third Man
A Touch Of Evil
Victory At Sea - I watched the series on VHS and have not seen the DVDs. I wonder how well the masters are holding up?

I was wondering after the poor showing of Casablanca,Forbidden Planet, Star Trek and others is my dream of seeing thousands of great catalog titles on HDM dead in the water. I feared the demographics early on when I saw that films like Stealth, which stunk worse than my feces after thanksgiving ,did well among the HDM buying public. Additionally ,the statistics that seventy percent of all commercial theater tickets are sold to teen girls added fuel to the fire.

This would be a major bummer for me since I don't see enough recent releases to keep me happy in my theater. I guess I could hope that gradually things change to allow better sales of the great older films but it doesn't look good ,at least in the near term.

Art


I agree with you. Your "dream" is pretty much dead without a unified format.

The Quiet Man - My favorite John Wayne and John Ford film. The Irish country and Maureen O'Hara would be a treat in HD.
The Third Man
A Touch Of Evil
V for Victory - I watched the series on VHS and have not seen DVDs available. I wonder how well the masters are holding up?

Touch Of Evil would be great, and what sane person doesn't like Third Man, I think it's as close to perfection as a film can get.

There were quite a few statements about earlier Bond films. Does Sony own the distribution rights to all of these? My understanding was that pre-1980 MGM titles were Paramount's (or was it Uni, I completely forgot). Is Bond separate from these titles? What am I missing? I am a Bond fanatic and not having CR has been painful enough. No way I could stay clear of BD and allow all the blu folks enjoy Bond in HD goodness while I suffer. Decisions decisions...

Glad to see we have a quorum of the Mutiny on the Bounty HDM owners here ;) Bond was seperate.

For all of you classic film lovers

HD DVD/Blu-ray Movie & TV Catalog by Studio after Paramount/Dreamworks Decision (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896112)

This thread had an update of a lot of lists of studio movies. Including some complete lists from the major studios and the AFI lists.

Lots of film lists in the thread. Lots of effort on my part to compile them, so I hope it helps. ;)

Done before the AVS format war time out, so forgive some of the posts in the thread. :)

...what sane person doesn't like Third Man, I think it's as close to perfection as a film can get.
Great question and I completely agree. It is just one of those rare films that feels like it got everything right and is endlessly enjoyable. I think HD would enhance film noir particularly well. The Third Man along with The Maltese Falcon would be excellent show pieces.

Art:

You will pleased as punch that Sony announced at that conference yesterday - they will be releasing on BD in 2008 :

Lawrence of Arabia*
Bridge Over the River Kwai.

Your dream just got a rocket boost IMO!:D

*Inside Lee's head* MU. . ST . . . . RE . . . SI . . . ST

:D

Pssst: Don't worry Lee - less than 2 weeks to BLADE RUNNER!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/Fireworks.jpg

Art:

You will pleased as punch that Sony announced at that conference yesterday - they will be releasing on BD in 2008 :

Lawrence of Arabia*
Bridge Over the River Kwai.

Your dream just got a rocket boost IMO!:D

*Inside Lee's head* MU. . ST . . . . RE . . . SI . . . ST

:D

Pssst: Don't worry Lee - less than 2 weeks to BLADE RUNNER!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/Fireworks.jpg

Bridge on the River Kwai is probably the only bd exclusive that by itself could have gotten me to get a bd player. This is my father's favorite movie of all time.

"Madness! ... Madness!"

They also announced The Guns Of Navarrone

I guess we finally see if it's the film elements or the transfer that was bad on the last outing on DVD.

Man- Come BD - full compliant player - $199 - SAL - I AM IN!

Art:

You will pleased as punch that Sony announced at that conference yesterday - they will be releasing on BD in 2008 :

Lawrence of Arabia*
Bridge Over the River Kwai.

Your dream just got a rocket boost IMO!:D

*Inside Lee's head* MU. . ST . . . . RE . . . SI . . . ST

:D

Pssst: Don't worry Lee - less than 2 weeks to BLADE RUNNER!

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/Fireworks.jpg

Fantastic news ! I actually like Bridge on the River Kwai more than Lawrence.

Art

Fantastic news ! I actually like Bridge on the River Kwai more than Lawrence.

Art

"I have already given the order."

:)

I have Unforgiven (and it is one of my favorite films) but I dont really see that as a Western. More of a drama in a western setting. No real "guys just riding around shooting people cause they can". I guess my biggest problem is that I tie westerns into John Wayne (and "comedy" westerns (which I like) to Clint Eastwood) and I have a deep dislike for John Wayne.

whats not to like about marion morrison?:D

a favorite, 'the man who shot liberty valence'

whats not to like about marion morrison?:D

a favorite, 'the man who shot liberty valence'

I would LOVE to see a fully restored McClintok! but there is something legally wrong with this film. I saw it in the theater and laughed through the whole picture.

BTW if you like Western spoofs like Blazing Saddles - you must see Rustlers Rhapsody with Tom Berrenger - LMAO every time I watch it.

They also announced The Guns Of Navarrone

I guess we finally see if it's the film elements or the transfer that was bad on the last outing on DVD.

Man- Come BD - full compliant player - $199 - SAL - I AM IN!

Yup, I may have to give up on my wait for a 2.0 player stance.

What is up with Battle of Britain?

Did anyone mention The Defiant Ones?

I would LOVE to see a fully restored McClintok! but there is something legally wrong with this film. I saw it in the theater and laughed through the whole picture.

BTW if you like Western spoofs like Blazing Saddles - you must see Rustlers Rhapsody with Tom Berrenger - LMAO every time I watch it.

mcclintock, yeah, i guess i could go for that also, not a favorite tho (?), i cant remember if ive seen rustlers rhapsody, probably not. ill check it out soon.

Yup, I may have to give up on my wait for a 2.0 player stance.

Just get the PS3. It should be 1.1 by the end of the month and studios are already assuming it will be BD-Live capable since it is already network ready.

The only thing it may ever lack is dtsMA decoding or bitstream.

It will be excellent to finally have Lawrence on a HD format, but still the best way to ever experience this large scope film is in 65mm print on the bigscreen (not in today's crappy multiplexes).

Just get the PS3. It should be 1.1 by the end of the month and studios are already assuming it will be BD-Live capable since it is already network ready.

Ok let me keep this at least part of this post on topic - so lets add in a few other movies (I'll keep em at least 20 years old):
Rommel
Time Bandits
Maybe a Sinbad title or two (could use a little more Harryhausen)
Moby Dick
Journey to the Center of the Earth
War of the Worlds
Khartoum
Gunga Din
They Died With Their Boots On
The African Queen
Lighthorsemen

Now to address your suggestion...

Thanks, I am aware of the PS3 and its capabilities. I have just about zero interest in buying one. I don't need a Swiss Army knife. I could care less about console gaming and will be looking for something that is properly rack mountable.

Some of the upcoming dual format players look more appealing to me at this point. Also, I would think that there will be a few nice new designs showcased soon.

I'm about ready to drop what is for me a good deal of money on a sound system so I'm not in a mad rush to get a BR player at this exact moment. There will be better fits relatively soon I think for what I'm looking for. Nevertheless, I do see myself acquiring the ability to play BR media before the end of 2008.

I can see it costing $50,000 from film to finished product,

Thats what I meant. :)

From finding the master to shipping out the door. For some titles it can even be be less than $50,000.

Cheers, Kosty.

So, my point is this.

With the films we discussed earlier - Mutiny on the Bounty, Adventures of Robin Hood, etc, it appears these would have been released on SD DVD anyway.

So, given that when the SD DVD spec ed was prepated, the original film would have to be restored & cleaned up, and the digital master they made for the SD DVD would be a high def master, how much extra is it costing to prepare a HD DVD?

The cost is:

- Transferring the high def lossless digital master to a VC-1 encode that will fit on a HD DVD;
- Making a glass master;
- The extra price to press a HD DVD vs an SD DVD (or two SD DVDs for most of these spec eds).

Can you confirm roughly how much it costs for the first two of those in dollars? And how much a 30gb HD DVD costs to make vs 2x SD DVDs?

Cheers.

Steve W

SORRY! . . No Big Hat:D

This presumes I accept YOUR definition.

Lookie:

Horse = landspeeder
Indians = Aliens
Six-shooter = Blaster
West = Space
Tonto = Chewbacca
Han Solo = Westen hero

This presumes I accept YOUR definition.

Lookie:

Horse = landspeeder
Indians = Aliens
Six-shooter = Blaster
West = Space
Tonto = Chewbacca
Han Solo = Westen hero

I think most get the fact that SW borrowed the western's themes for a lot of it's charm but is still not a western.

Art

Why I love Westerns

1. Cinematography
2. No special effects
3. Revenge is a main theme
4. Mano a mano
5. Zero technology
6. Acting is everything
7. A time period that really did exist.

Lee,

Just pick up the new Panasonic Blu Ray player and have both sides. You know where I stand in this "format" war, but I still own a 1st gen hd dvd player. I have purchased 4 hd dvd exclusive titles in the past month. I still own around 30.

The Panasonic player is very solid, passes bitstream and BD Live 2.0 is not really important.





Just trying to tip you my way a little......:D

Lee,

Just pick up the new Panasonic Blu Ray player and have both sides. You know where I stand in this "format" war, but I still own an 1st gen hd dvd player. I have purchased 4 hd dvd exclusive titles in the past month. I still own around 30.

The Panasonic player is very solid, passes bitstream and BD Live 2.0 is not really important.

Just trying to tip you my way a little......:D

Well I thank you for the recommendation. But I will wait for what I want because I strongly believe that WE/IF will be something special once they figure out the best way to implement it. If anything can sway the masses to buy HDM IMO, it will be WE/IF.

I really don't want to give that up. I am tired of rebuying players over the life of a format:

LD - 4
DVD - 3
HDM - 1

Plus I want to see how LOA comes out on BD and what Sony calls "working very hard on it" to get it right . . . which IMO might border on the impossible due to the film elements. I just can't see them doing a better job than Robert Harris did.

This presumes I accept YOUR definition.

Lookie:

Horse = landspeeder
Indians = Aliens
Six-shooter = Blaster
West = Space
Tonto = Chewbacca
Han Solo = Westen hero
Sam, you indeed are wise. Well stated.

Why I love Westerns

1. Cinematography
2. No special effects
3. Revenge is a main theme
4. Mano a mano
5. Zero technology
6. Acting is everything
7. A time period that really did exist.
Mano a Mano, I guess you haven't watched Sigourney and Aliens Queen. lol

Mano a Mano, I guess you haven't watched Sigourney and Aliens Queen. lol

Originally Posted by Lee Stewart
Why I love Westerns

Aliens is a SciFi genre movie.

You should have referenced Sam Rami's The Quick & The Dead if you were going to correct me.

And to clarify my "bullet" it is to mean 1 against 1

I think most get the fact that SW borrowed the western's themes for a lot of it's charm but is still not a western.

Art

One of the best ever made!

can't believe that "shane" isn't getting any love here...

Western schmestern, bring on the horror!:)

Exorcist
Night OF The Living Dead
Bride of Frankenstein
Psycho
The Haunting
Rosemary's Baby (if they can get that person to stop standing on the negative)
The Innocents
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Invasion Of The Body Snatchers
Masque Of The Red Death/Pit And The Pendulum
Horror Of Dracula

Western schmestern, bring on the horror!:)

Exorcist
Night OF The Living Dead
Bride of Frankenstein
Psycho
The Haunting
Rosemary's Baby (if they can get that person to stop standing on the negative)
The Innocents
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Invasion Of The Body Snatchers
Masque Of The Red Death/Pit And The Pendulum
Horror Of Dracula

It's sad that so many wives don't appreciate the artistry and social commentary of the genre :D

Western schmestern, bring on the horror!:)

Exorcist
Night OF The Living Dead
Bride of Frankenstein
Psycho
The Haunting
Rosemary's Baby (if they can get that person to stop standing on the negative)
The Innocents
Texas Chainsaw Massacre
Invasion Of The Body Snatchers
Masque Of The Red Death/Pit And The Pendulum
Horror Of Dracula

Well Tim - we do have one thing in common. . . the fact that I like westerns and you like horror . . . and if you have seen one . . then you have seen them all:p

Aliens is a SciFi genre movie.

You should have referenced Sam Rami's The Quick & The Dead if you were going to correct me.

And to clarify my "bullet" it is to mean 1 against 1
I knew what genre, Just trying to attempt a little humor. Evidently my attempt failed. So sorry.

Well Tim - we do have one thing in common. . . the fact that I like westerns and you like horror . . . and if you have seen one . . then you have seen them all:p

I have,
The Searchers
Blazing Saddles
Stagecoach
Brokeback Mountain ;)
Cimarron
Once Upon A Time In The West
Duel In The Sun
Johnny Guitar
The Good The Bad & The Ugly
I Ride Like A Crazy Horse
and El Topo

but then I have 605 horror films.

What horror ya got? ;)

I have,
The Searchers
Blazing Saddles
Stagecoach
Brokeback Mountain ;)
Cimarron
Once Upon A Time In The West
Duel In The Sun
Johnny Guitar
The Good The Bad & The Ugly
I Ride Like A Crazy Horse
and El Topo

What horror ya got? ;)

None - I do not like the horror genre.:p But if it helps - my son loves it - has well over 100 DVD's that are horror oriented. His favorite genre

None - I do not like the horror genre.:p But if it helps - my son loves it - has well over 100 DVD's that are horror oriented. His favorite genre

Aw, my old man hated them too, but my mom loved em.

Aw, my old man hated them too, but my mom loved em.

I would rather be dazzled and drawn into a movie than be scared or grossed out. Not something I enjoy AT ALL.

But I have a "weakness" for Anime:D

I think most get the fact that SW borrowed the western's themes for a lot of it's charm but is still not a western.

Art
Nope.

Using Sam's criteria, you can make a western out of just about any film.

Nope.

Using Sam's criteria, you can make a western out of just about any film.

Sometimes with GREAT success:

Yojimbo - A Fist Full Of Dollars

The Seven Samauri - The Magnificent Seven*

*Or if you are a "closet" Full Screen lover - The Magnificent Four:D

When people realize that their DVDs look like cr*p on their 65'' flatscreen, then they will start to replace their catalog titles. The trouble is, they don't look like cr*p; at least not significantly. SD DVD's played on a decent upconverting player are not at all bad - so good, in fact, that my wife questions the need to replace our SD movies with HD media. I can see the differences, but she can't unless I point them out and even then she says they are barely noticeable.

The trouble is, they don't look like cr*p; at least not significantly. SD DVD's played on a decent upconverting player are not at all bad - so good, in fact, that my wife questions the need to replace our SD movies with HD media. I can see the differences, but she can't unless I point them out and even then she says they are barely noticeable.


Move the couch to within 4 feet of the display - that will do it:D

Art:

You will pleased as punch that Sony announced at that conference yesterday - they will be releasing on BD in 2008 :

Lawrence of Arabia*
Bridge Over the River Kwai.

Your dream just got a rocket boost IMO!:D

*Inside Lee's head* MU. . ST . . . . RE . . . SI . . . ST

:D

Pssst: Don't worry Lee - less than 2 weeks to BLADE RUNNER!



I go Blu the day it is released :eek:

.... and now am whistling it too.... :)

This is a great thread...if a tad sad. :(

Two questions:

- Why don't the studios try to get out as much catalog as they can as soon as possible? I know it was the titles that drove me to HDM (HD-DVD first and then Blu-ray 6 months later). Is it a marketing strategy to dribble them out, or a business decision (cost vs. revenue)? Or is there a technology bottleneck?

- What, exactly, is the definition of "catalog"? Anything not released day-and-date with DVD?

This is a great thread...if a tad sad. :(

Two questions:

- Why don't the studios try to get out as much catalog as they can as soon as possible? I know it was the titles that drove me to HDM (HD-DVD first and then Blu-ray 6 months later). Is it a marketing strategy to dribble them out, or a business decision (cost vs. revenue)? Or is there a technology bottleneck?

- What, exactly, is the definition of "catalog"? Anything not released day-and-date with DVD?Honestly I think it is cost revenjue. At the level of installs thus far and IM particularly the demographics meand that there is essentially no incentive to release lots of catalo titles. Thisc has been born out by the poor sales figures of several of these.

It is a paradox in some ways that more catalog could help add lots of HDM converts .

Art

The trouble is, they don't look like cr*p; at least not significantly. SD DVD's played on a decent upconverting player are not at all bad - so good, in fact, that my wife questions the need to replace our SD movies with HD media. I can see the differences, but she can't unless I point them out and even then she says they are barely noticeable.

upconverted sd dvds look great on my 108" screen, hdm looks even better!

we sit 12-13 feet from screen.

Honestly I think it is cost revenjue. At the level of installs thus far and IM particularly the demographics meand that there is essentially no incentive to release lots of catalo titles. Thisc has been born out by the poor sales figures of several of these.

It is a paradox in some ways that more catalog could help add lots of HDM converts .

Art


I am not convinved. Not with sales of titles like 2001, Grand Prix, etc doing less than 3500 per format. Look what happened with Close Encounters - 2000 as I heard it.

It is the double dip issue. Plain and simple. Because if you have a 60" display - UP DVD doesn't look terrible. It looks OK.

So many IMO, are thinking to themselves - I have seen this film 2,3,4,5 times already - sure the 1 time I see it in HD it will look great - then how many more times will I watch it after that?

Ta Da! Netflix!:p

Art - any bets that there are more than 632 people who have seen Mutnity? How about 2000? But only 632 own it.

upconverted sd dvds look great on my 108" screen, hdm looks even better!

we sit 12-13 feet from screen.
Where were you for the "If you could only have ONE: Hi-def Video or Audio?" thread?!!!

I am not convinved. Not with sales of titles like 2001, Grand Prix, etc doing less than 3500 per format. Look what happened with Close Encounters - 2000 as I heard it.

It is the double dip issue. Plain and simple. Because if you have a 60" display - UP DVD doesn't look terrible. It looks OK.

So many IMO, are thinging to themselves - I have seen this film 2,3,4,5 times already - sure the 1 time I see it in HD it will look great - then how many more times will I watch it after that?

Ta Da! Netflix!:p

Art - any bets that there are more than 632 people who have seen Mutnity? How about 2000? But only 632 own it.
Tooting my horn here, but... I've been saying this all along.

I agree wholeheartedly, Lee.

Couple this with the premium prices and...

I see alot of mention to not purchasing catalog titles on HDM. I must admit when I first purchased my HD DVD player it was with the intention of purchasing mainly new releases and perhaps some of my favorite titles but the thought of replacing practiacally my whole DVD collection seemed overwhelming.

Since owning the player though I have come to enjoy the superior quality, interactivity, extra features and now web enabled features that I have no problem replacing my entire catalog as the titles are released on HD.

Pretty much my only consideration in whether to purchase a catalog or existing title is to ask myself if it will be watched more then once. In re -reading this thread I just had to chime in .

Me too. :D :D :D

I have so much to watch now, its getting that I shy away from watching a DVD that I have if I know a HD DVD version is out there or is projected. If I have a craving, I rent it if the price is still outrageous, but I would buy it if it was $14.99 or less.

I knew I would replace some titles but now I want everything in HDM. :)

Cheers, Kosty.

So, my point is this.

With the films we discussed earlier - Mutiny on the Bounty, Adventures of Robin Hood, etc, it appears these would have been released on SD DVD anyway.

So, given that when the SD DVD spec ed was prepated, the original film would have to be restored & cleaned up, and the digital master they made for the SD DVD would be a high def master, how much extra is it costing to prepare a HD DVD?

The cost is:

- Transferring the high def lossless digital master to a VC-1 encode that will fit on a HD DVD;
- Making a glass master;
- The extra price to press a HD DVD vs an SD DVD (or two SD DVDs for most of these spec eds).

Can you confirm roughly how much it costs for the first two of those in dollars? And how much a 30gb HD DVD costs to make vs 2x SD DVDs?

Cheers.

Steve W
For a HD DVD 30GB DL disc the costs are similar to DVD. Cents not dollars per unit.

The electron gun glass mastering cost is the only real expense above DVD, but thats pocket change for studios. Thats 4 figures but dropping fast as DVD masters are now using the same technology.

I have no confirmed information on Blu-ray costs, but they must be getting cheaper for BD25 discs , which is what a lot of older movies with new extras could use.

Also its virtually the same HD DVD cost to press 25.000-50,000 copies for the studios as it for only 5,000, as once a line is running its just material costs, an yields are high. The setup is the expense, the incremental cost is pennies. That's different than getting a cost estimate from a commercial replicator, who just can't give away services and has to charge somewhat for volume.

Don't really know about combo yields or pricing, but Combo/Twin discs would seem to be a great way to have a re-release of a classic title.

Seems studios are afraid of combo only releases, as they might affect DVD sales. I hope some studios start releasing some titles in COmbo /Twin, put it in a red case and then put a DVD like outer cardboard sleeve on it.

Me too (8), plus I am pretty sure I have every single pre-1980s title on both formats thus far. Who else here can say that?

Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) WB
Casablanca (1942) WB
Forbidden Planet (1956) WB
The Searchers (1956) WB
Jailhouse Rock (1957) WB
Rio Bravo (1959) WB
Spartacus (1960) Universal
Mutiny on the Bounty (1962) WB
Viva Las Vegas (1964) WB
Battle of the Bulge (1965) WB
Grand Prix (1966) WB
The Dirty Dozen (1967) WB
2001 (1968) WB
Bullitt (1968) WB
The Wild Bunch (1969) WB
A Clockwork Orange (1971) WB
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (1971) WB
Cowboys (1972) WB
Deliverance (1972) WB
The Gettaway (1972) WB
The Sting (1973) Universal
Enter the Dragon (1973) WB
Blazing Saddles (1974) WB
Dog Day Afternoon (1975) WB
The Deer Hunter (1978) Universal
Halloween (1978) Starz
The Warriors (1979) Paramount
The Jerk (1979) Universal
The Shining (1980) WB

Amazing thing about this list is that with very few exceptions, most titles are WB releases. If you are a classic film lover, Warner has been the best studio and is absolutely a must.

And before anyone gets their pantys in a wad, 20 Million Miles to Earth (1957) was released by Sony today.

I have all those except:

Jailhouse Rock (1957) WB
Rio Bravo (1959) WB
Spartacus (1960) Universal
Viva Las Vegas (1964) WB
Battle of the Bulge (1965) WB
The Dirty Dozen (1967) WB

Not really into Elvis or war movies. I would have bought Spartacus if the transfer was even half decent.

Sign me up for a Mutiny On The Bounty T-Shirt :p

Why I love Westerns

1. Cinematography
2. No special effects
3. Revenge is a main theme
4. Mano a mano
5. Zero technology
6. Acting is everything
7. A time period that really did exist. My jaw dropped when watching The Searchers.

The landscape, clothing texture, dust clouds around horse's hoofs. faded heavy duty cotton and dusty leather and silk.

and the story....

I think some studios just wanted to release enough classic catalog titles just to seed the format , throw a bone to first adopters and cinemaphiles and reviewers , and act as a tech demonstration (The Searchers, Casablanca).

They will release more as the number of dedicated player owners grow and their isa larger installed base market to sell to .

Heck, the vast majority of released titles are just now starting to get a bit of support by retailers and are just now starting to get a bit of retail shelf space allocated to them at thebig box stores. Why hurry and release more titles now, when existing ones have not been displayed yet?

I really don't think its really cost, its timing.

Sign me up for a Mutiny On The Bounty T-Shirt I wonder how many of the 20 or so people in this thread that have said they own it bought it after the 632 number was accounted for?

We can't be 1/30th of all the title owners.....

<Kamspy sheds a somber tear for all of your dreams deferred.>

Where were you for the "If you could only have ONE: Hi-def Video or Audio?" thread?!!!

i think i made some sort of entry there.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2624/blade-runner-how-great-hd-is-made.html

Article on Warner's 4K mastering process and their procedures talking about the Blade Runner restoration.

...Since the recent advent of high-def discs (and even, really, of DVDs), Warner Bros. has had a great track record of transferring titles with the best possible visual and audio fidelity. In a word, Warner Bros. discs often look pristine. And keep in mind that just because a movie is in high-def is no guarantee it will look great; an HD transfer can suffer from poor compression, bad color, weak contrast, dust and scratches — you name it. (Note the huge disparity in image quality of the high-def movies playing on cable.)

"Studios do have technical differences in their mastering and compression approaches," notes DTS Digital Cinema's chief technology officer, John Lowry — the man who's done stunning restorations of the James Bond series, some classic musicals and Alfred Hitchcock films, and the initial Star Wars trilogy. "Perhaps the biggest differences are in their image-quality goals for their high-definition masters. A year ago, many studios didn't recognize they had a problem. They'd been mastering in HD and approving those masters looking at a CRT-based monitor displaying uncompressed data. Today, they recognize that the consumer is viewing the images on large, bright, high-contrast HDTVs after compression and decompression."......Later, I speak with WB vice president of post production Kurt Galveo, who took a hands-on role in the transformation of Blade Runner to high-def disc. "We wanted to make sure that no matter what platform you look at it on, you always see the same thing," says Galveo. "We try to match the warmth, color, and texture. To keep that same kind of image on video, there are adjustments you have to make in color, because electronically it's a different color space. Plus, sometimes you have to add grain. When we scan the image and put it on digital form on disc, it can be too clean; you have to add texture so it looks like people remember it from the theater. But sometimes you literally have areas in the film where there's too much grain — opticals [special effects], for instance, can actually introduce more grain — so we have to take some out. It goes both ways."

And there's even more knob-turning required. "You do have to adjust contrast," Galveo continues. "It depends on how the scene was shot and lit. Also, compression can change what the blacks look like. Electronic blacks and film blacks look very different. You have to balance it out so it looks like the original."

Aside from the tinkering required to make video simulate film, the restoration magicians used a lot of elbow grease to bring Blade Runner up to high-def snuff. "We had to do multiple, multiple passes on the negatives — four or five times — dust-busting them and cleaning them," Galveo recalls. "Physically, all the negatives were in good shape. But some were filthy. In the old VHS days, when the detail wasn't quite there, it was a little more forgiving. But now the home viewer with HD has much higher-quality resolution to view a film, so we have to keep cleaning this until we see no dirt whatsoever. We content providers have to put more TLC into a project so the final product that the viewer takes home looks as good as can be."

Another on topic article today on film restoration and high def masters.


Studios seeing the dollars and sense in preservation

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/features/film/e3i7631a4fea1c15e09cf33182d855cc6f4Now, some 11 years after the DVD was launched, film preservation (and often restoration) is routine at Hollywood studios. Today, studios typically store multiple copies of films in climate-controlled vaults in geographically diverse locations. Primary materials (including 35mm black-and-white YCM separation masters, the original negative and archival elements related to both the image and the audio) are stored in one facility, while three duplicates are stored in others hundreds of miles apart. In the event that an individual copy is corrupted or an entire facility is destroyed, the library remains intact.It's a far cry from a few decades ago, when prints and original negatives were neglected or lost, improperly stored, transferred to inferior stocks -- and sometimes willfully destroyed. The problem came to light in the 1970s, when filmmakers spoke out and the Library of Congress and institutions like the UCLA Film & Television Archive and the George Eastman House stepped up efforts to save and restore films. Studios were, by and large, slow to act, if they did anything at all.

Today there are whole divisions devoted to the preservation and restoration process.

As a rule, studios now give state-of-the-art preservation treatments to every new project, while simultaneously working through older titles in the library as time and resources will allow.

Historically significant titles likely to generate profits on home video and other ancillary markets get looked at first and more thoroughly.

Priority is also given to titles that are in bad physical shape or stored on historically unstable material, such as the highly explosive pre-1948 nitrate film stocks or post-1948 safety film stocks prone to fading and decay. But Sony's Crisp says that recent advances in digital-restoration technology are inspiring his studio to go back and revisit major titles a second or third time, such as 1969's "Easy Rider," which was previously restored in the mid-1990s using both photochemical and digital techniques. "There were serious limitations back then in terms of what we could do digitally, and because of the cost involved, it really wasn't done very often," Crisp says.

"Now, we can do the entire film for a whole lot less than we did just short pieces 10 or 12 years ago."

I am not convinved. Not with sales of titles like 2001, Grand Prix, etc doing less than 3500 per format. Look what happened with Close Encounters - 2000 as I heard it.

It is the double dip issue. Plain and simple. Because if you have a 60" display - UP DVD doesn't look terrible. It looks OK.

So many IMO, are thinging to themselves - I have seen this film 2,3,4,5 times already - sure the 1 time I see it in HD it will look great - then how many more times will I watch it after that?

Ta Da! Netflix!:p

Art - any bets that there are more than 632 people who have seen Mutnity? How about 2000? But only 632 own it.

I'm not in disagreement I just feel that there will be a tipping point when people like me and my father in law want more HD to watch. We see the advantages but we don't see enough quality titles.

Additionally, I also feel that recent films should garner a premium price catalog somewhat less perhaps in the $15 range. The chicken and the egg issue comes into play as well but none the less, I sit down to watch two or three films ,at least, each weekend if my chidren don't have a game or meet and right now I don't see enough catalog or recent films I want to watch to take those slots. I bet I'm not alone.

Art

I'm not in disagreement I just feel that there will be a tipping point when people like me and my father in law want more HD to watch. We see the advantages but we don't see enough quality titles.

Additionally, I also feel that recent films should garner a premium price catalog somewhat less perhaps in the $15 range. The chicken and the egg issue comes into play as well but none the less, I sit down to watch two or three films ,at least, each weekend if my chidren don't have a game or meet and right now I don't see enough catalog or recent films I want to watch to take those slots. I bet I'm not alone.

Art

I do wish there were more titles available especially considering out of the entire available catalog of releases only a certain percentage of these movies may be appealing to each persons taste.

Out of the 400 titles released in the US I own over a hundred but have gone through most of these already. When releases are slow I pick and choose through the import titles available which does allow for some additional choices.

But yes even with owning players from both formats and importing titles its rather a short list of announced movies that I am looking forward too so I do hope they increase the amount of releases soon.

I'm dreading an re-occurance of last year where Universal slowed down for 2 months following the xmas holidays. Wow was everyone up in arms over that one. Surprisingly though I'm kind of shocked how upset HD supporters were over a 2 month slow down but mostly excuses are made over the Blu-ray side with Fox and MGM releasing zero titles in 8 months and still delaying and cancelling titles currently.

If you look at the release calendar - there are no HD DVD releases for either 1/1 or 1/15.

Hmmmm . . . .

My speculation - HUGE sale on 1/1. Buy 2 get 3 free. Start off the new year with a BANG. The 1/15? Maybe something special

If you look at the release calendar - there are no HD DVD releases for either 1/1 or 1/15.

Hmmmm . . . .

My speculation - HUGE sale on 1/1. Buy 2 get 3 free. Start off the new year with a BANG. The 1/15? Maybe something special

When you think about it, that just seems absurd that right after christmas there are no releases. The weather is bad,it is time for the great indoors activities,there are fresh player purchases at Christmas.. WTF>:confused:

Art

Well, what's on Blu Ray for 1/1 & 1/15?

Well, what's on Blu Ray for 1/1 & 1/15?

January 01, 2008

Shoot 'Em Up (New Line)
War (Lionsgate)

January 15, 2008

Breaker Morant (Image)
Good Luck Chuck (Lionsgate)
Mr. Woodcock (New Line)
Suburban Girl (Image)
Went To Coney Island On A Mission From God... Be Back By Five (Starz)

When you think about it, that just seems absurd that right after christmas there are no releases. The weather is bad,it is time for the great indoors activities,there are fresh player purchases at Christmas.. WTF>:confused:

Art
Sales for previously released recent DVD movies have usually taken off during the month of January for existing titles as retailers sell software to all the hardware new owners. HD DVD and Blu-ray should have the same pattern with all the recent hardware sales. Studios and retailers expect software sales to pick up a few weeks after hardware purchase.

IIRC not a lot of new releases traditionally come out in early January even though there is a "5th quarter " DVD sales effect.

A lot of software news will probably be announced just after Christmas or just before or at CES during the first week of January.

With many people receiving HD players, PS3 consoles and general gift cards for the holidays I would expect a big spike in software sales right after the holidays so I'm kind of surprised/dissappointed that we dont already have an A list of titles announced for Jan.

With many people receiving HD players, PS3 consoles and general gift cards for the holidays I would expect a big spike in software sales right after the holidays so I'm kind of surprised/dissappointed that we dont already have an A list of titles announced for Jan.

Once again - biggest week of the year for movie sales - 12/25 to 12/31.

How are the first two weeks in January?

January 01, 2008

Shoot 'Em Up (New Line)
War (Lionsgate)

January 15, 2008

Breaker Morant (Image)
Good Luck Chuck (Lionsgate)
Mr. Woodcock (New Line)
Suburban Girl (Image)
Went To Coney Island On A Mission From God... Be Back By Five (Starz)

Wow,I'll rush out and buy none of those.

Art

Wow,I'll rush out and buy none of those.

Art

Art - I would have figured Breaker Morant might be of interest to you. I hadn't heard of it before, but I guess its pretty good.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/breaker_morant/

I'll admit, I am looking forward to renting Shoot 'em up.

1/1 is a significant date BTW - first 1.1 BD titles to arrive - both will have it. WAR is reputed to also have 2.0 WE.

Breaker Morant is a great movie. Worth your time. Great acting great and accurate historical story about the British Empire in the Boer War.

A great war, period piece, action , thoughful well acted movie.

I was wondering after the poor showing of Casablanca,Forbidden Planet, Star Trek and others is my dream of seeing thousands of great catalog titles on HDM dead in the water.

Well, I did my part -- I actually bought all 3 of those titles on HD-DVD, and have yet to see any of them in any format (other than the occasional Trek episode on TV).

I also pick up old Elvis and Bob Hope movies, when I can. I would bet the Hitchcock material would do reasonably well.

As for the format war affecting purchases, I would say it has, as I know it has mine. I swallowed the red pill early on, and have since added a second player (XA2) and slowly built up my catalog. However, there are a number of blue titles I would love to have, but don't want a BR player, yet. If all titles were on the both or the same format, I wouldn't be restricted in what I can play on my machine. I am less worried about my catalog going "betamax", than going out and buying a BR player for every viewing location in the house, buying a bunch of blue titles, then after a year, finding out that the studios have gone format neutral and are now offering the same titles on red. And I am sure there are blue pill people where the converse is true.

i think i made some sort of entry there.
I wish you had.

Maybe it was so powerful a statement that it was deleted by the mods for fear of an all-out uprising!

;)

Anyone for the DIRTY HARRY movies? It was mentioned (one of them) in the thread on Film Transferring.

Some period 70s urban pieces look great. In Dog Day Afternoon, you can smell the sidewalk and hear the calls of the squeege men and the street girls. that movie perfectly captures NYC in the 70's.

How about The French Connection?

How about The French Connection?
A great movie

I just wanted to comment I appreciate the adult conversation in this thread.

I just wanted to comment I appreciate the adult conversation in this thread.

:) - that's what happens when we ALL want the same thing!;)

Breaker Morant is a great movie. Worth your time. Great acting great and accurate historical story about the British Empire in the Boer War.

A great war, period piece, action , thoughful well acted movie.

Agreed. I will note though that is an Australian made film and the protagonists are Australians. Not sure I should add much more lest I ruin it for those that have not seen it yet.

Anyone for the DIRTY HARRY movies? It was mentioned (one of them) in the thread on Film Transferring.

Oh, yeah. It is in my first list in this thread. At least the first couple of Dirty Harry flicks should be part of any action buffs library. :)

Well, I did my part -- I actually bought all 3 of those titles on HD-DVD, and have yet to see any of them in any format (other than the occasional Trek episode on TV).

I also pick up old Elvis and Bob Hope movies, when I can. I would bet the Hitchcock material would do reasonably well.

As for the format war affecting purchases, I would say it has, as I know it has mine. I swallowed the red pill early on, and have since added a second player (XA2) and slowly built up my catalog. However, there are a number of blue titles I would love to have, but don't want a BR player, yet. If all titles were on the both or the same format, I wouldn't be restricted in what I can play on my machine. I am less worried about my catalog going "betamax", than going out and buying a BR player for every viewing location in the house, buying a bunch of blue titles, then after a year, finding out that the studios have gone format neutral and are now offering the same titles on red. And I am sure there are blue pill people where the converse is true.



Speaking of Bob Hope, did you order the Road to Rio/Bali disc coming out soon? Had mine on order since first announced.

Any idea if Casablanca sales changed when they aged of the five free movie offer?

They were one of the 5 free movies you could get all year until Oct when the offer changed to a different set of movies.

Art - I would have figured Breaker Morant might be of interest to you. I hadn't heard of it before, but I guess its pretty good.

'Breaker' Morant is a great film.

Steve W

A game console is deciding the format movies will be released in high definition on. I hope you all like Spiders and Pirates because the audience the studios are listening to consider it the pinnacle of film making. Sadly, if your dream isn't dead, it's in a coma and the diagnosis is grim.

We'll always have Paris.

I guess Art and the rest of us are going to have to settle for PS3 demographic movies for quite a long time. Don't expect Gone with the Wind for a long time!

If Blu-ray has now "won the war" and, more importantly, becomes a mainstream success, we will certainly see plenty of classic movies in HD. It will just take a while, until the format's sales are much higher than today and disc-manufacturing is cheaper.

If Blu-ray has now "won the war" and, more importantly, becomes a mainstream success, we will certainly see plenty of classic movies in HD. It will just take a while, until the format's sales are much higher than today and disc-manufacturing is cheaper.


Truth.

When I bought into DVD there were very few quality movies available. I remember that Twister and Lost in Space were two of the earliest DVDs out that were widely used for demo purposes in stores. Oh ya, Bad Boys also, that film was a winner.

When the base is larger we will get more classic films in high def. What will make the base larger? Lower player prices.

We will see $299 and under BD 1.1 players in the next several months from several manufacturers. I expect threads soon on "what's the best $249 player from Amazon this week".

Any idea if Casablanca sales changed when they aged of the five free movie offer?

They were one of the 5 free movies you could get all year until Oct when the offer changed to a different set of movies.
Excellent question. I include Casablanca in every one of my HDTV demos. People are just blown away. Now that I think about it I got that one as part of my 5 disc offer.

What will become of WB's announcement for BONNIE AND CLYDE end of March. Amazon only ever listed a HD DVD (shades of what might have been?) I only hope they port the idea to BD.

Well Warner is supposed to release software through May, so we should see Bonnie and Clyde

I strongly suspect that Warner will be negligent in releasing red disks now that they don't have to pretend to like both. I'm not hopeful at all. They'll just release what's already "in the can".

Well. I actually understand that since so many have been sold but I had hoped that many of them would appear on HDM none the less.

Art

The movies will come. We went through this cycle with VHS, LaserDisc, and now the new formats. Also don't forget the rushed CD's of the past( they had to be redone some were so bad). Don't forget as older titles are released the potential audience has high expectations. Criterion is still around so there are companies that will do this right. Give those who care about quality time to meet your expectations.

A game console is deciding the format movies will be released in high definition on. I hope you all like Spiders and Pirates because the audience the studios are listening to consider it the pinnacle of film making. Sadly, if your dream isn't dead, it's in a coma and the diagnosis is grim.

I hate condescending posts like this. The very fact of the matter is this, Casablanca, Mutiny on The Bounty, Forbiden Planet, Star Trek etc are not even on blu-ray, so that game console(PS3) is not deciding anything for the lackluster sales of those titles, the market is. According to the theory of many here, HD DVD has the highest attach rates since they sold more stand alone players, and <ahem> movie buffs primarily want that, not a video game console. So, why didn't they fare better? Yeah, when in doubt, blame the PS3 crowd, whomever those rascals are with their love for Spiders and shiny Pirates. *shakes fist*

I strongly suspect that Warner will be negligent in releasing red disks now that they don't have to pretend to like both. I'm not hopeful at all. They'll just release what's already "in the can".

Bonnie and Clyde . . . "in the can."

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/bonnieclyder1artpic3-1.jpg

Thank you