The connectors are the same physical size for the threaded part.

I've noticed that the hole for the RF center conductor on the Zenith seems to be a tighter fit than on my other RF equipment. It requires a bit of force to insert the center conductor. Perhaps that is what has caused some confusion.

Yes, DigaDo is right, that's what I meant, the center conductor is too big to fit to my DTT900 (I was wondering why Zenith makes it that way). :confused:

I didn't know and didn't attempt to use force to insert it, that's why I did a work around.

Is there Female F-pin to Male RG59 adapter? Or any better idea to do it (just force it in probably)?

Basically you need to use a little force. Push a bit. You will hear a "pop" sound. After that, it is smooth sailing. You can insert the whole male thing in.

Basically you need to use a little force. Push a bit. You will hear a "pop" sound. After that, it is smooth sailing. You can insert the whole male thing in.Lust! :D :eek: :D

Basically you need to use a little force. Push a bit. You will hear a "pop" sound. After that, it is smooth sailing. You can insert the whole male thing in.

I think you have posted to the wrong forum!

I think you have posted to the wrong forum!No, pixelation is attempting to reply to the following post:

Not exactly. RG6 uses 18awg. RG59 uses 20awg.

He probably means the thicker gauge rg6 wont fit into the CECB female rf connector.

Avio

Hehehehe, guys, you're so hilarious :D

Btw, if I use force, once it's "pop", will it still be able to hold smaller center conductor properly afterward?

You know, in the future I might move the unit around and use different antenna that has smaller center conductor.

Thanks guys :)

Hehehehe, guys, you're so hilarious :D

Btw, if I use force, once it's "pop", will it still be able to hold smaller center conductor properly afterward?

You know, in the future I might move the unit around and use different antenna that has smaller center conductor.

Thanks guys :)

Maybe. Many don't care, but you really shouldn't have the center conductor copper wire on coax extend more than about 1/16" beyond the end of the screw connector. Overly long center wires on coax can cause damage and/or future problems. I've seen store bought connectors that were overly long, so that isn't a guarantee of quality. Personally, I eyeball them and if they seem long, I use my coax cutter (oval overlapping blades) to trim the end of the center wire. That leaves about the correct remaining center wire length.

If you take a good coax stripper and line up the cut end of the coax exactly on the outside edge of the stripper, then strip the coax and install a connector so that the insulator is exactly flush with the inside bottom of the connector (I'm talking compression connectors here), you will end up with just a bit of center wire protuding above the connector's screw-on connector. That's about a perfect coax connector installation. Having an eighth of an inch or more center wire protruding is not desireable and the longer the more likely it will be to cause a problem.

BTW, I switched the hookup on my Zenith box from an RG59 connection from an RCA set top antenna to a quad shielded RG6 connection coming from my attic antenna and I didn't need to "pop" the hole open. So be wary; although the problem could just be a manufacturing tolerance issue with the connector on the Zenith.

I live in Oregon City, OR at 97045 and today when I hooked up my DTT900 the auto setup only detected 4 really obscure digital tv channels and none of my local channels at all. According to tvfool.com I am only 15 miles away from my local tv channels so why am I not getting a signal from them? I am using a rabbit ears antenna that has a built in RF amplifier.
For anyone interested, I got my local Bimart to exchange the DTT900 for the new DTT901 they just got in. It has analog pass through. On the DTT900 I only got 4 digital channels and none of my local channels no matter how I fiddled with my Jensen 911 antenna. With the newer DTT901 I get 22 channels and they all come in brilliantly. Thanks for all the info from everybody. Happy tv watching!

For anyone interested, I got my local Bimart to exchange the DTT900 for the new DTT901 they just got in. It has analog pass through. On the DTT900 I only got 4 digital channels and none of my local channels no matter how I fiddled with my Jensen 911 antenna. With the newer DTT901 I get 22 channels and they all come in brilliantly. Thanks for all the info from everybody. Happy tv watching!

Your original DTT900 must have been defective. Twenty two channels is what you should be receiving with an indoor antenna in Oregon City. Enjoy!

I just bought a new RCA ANT1020 indoor antenna and realize that now it's using RG6 (the older model used RG59) coax, and it won't connect to my DTT900 (RG59 input). :eek:

Currently I use F-Pin Female/Female coupler and RG59 short cable to be able to connect it. I am using Philips-brand quad-shielded RG6 cables as interconnects between a Philips MANT510 and a DTT900. No connection problems. I'm unsure why you're having trouble connecting to the DTT900 antenna jacks.

I am using Philips-brand quad-shielded RG6 cables as interconnects between a Philips MANT510 and a DTT900. No connection problems. I'm unsure why you're having trouble connecting to the DTT900 antenna jacks.

This was resolved a few posts above. Or, do we need to rehash the male/female discussion again?

I got 23 channels setting up the 901 today - since my last scan they added the Ch. 10.5 FM 91.5 test subchannel. I agree, the first one must have been defective or you had a bad connection.

I got 23 channels setting up the 901 today - since my last scan they added the Ch. 10.5 FM 91.5 test subchannel. I agree, the first one must have been defective or you had a bad connection.

OK, channel 32.2 runs the count up to 23, but it isn't really there, or is it?

haha, we'll get in trouble for stealing the thread again, but I read it was there, played music, and then it went away. sort of. the signal still shows.

In case you are interested, here's an amazing price on DTT900's:

Amazon won't allow links! (http://www.amazon.com/s******nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dtt900)

Edit: Just run a search and look at the price from Toyzz

In case you are interested, here's an amazing price on DTT900's:

DTT900 (http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-DTT900-Digital-Tuner-Converter/dp/B0013URLIK******pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1214453461&sr=8-4)

Linky not worky! :confused:

In case you are interested, here's an amazing price on DTT900's:

DTT900 (http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-DTT900-Digital-Tuner-Converter/dp/B0013URLIK******pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1214453461&sr=8-4)

Wow! $204.94 including shipping for a DTT900! That's no cheap converter box.

There used to be a Shakey's Pizza Parlour in Portland Oregon. On the wall was a sign that read:

"We have no quarrel with those selling their product for less. They know what their product is worth."

In case you are interested, here's an amazing price on DTT900's:
DTT900 (http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-DTT900-Digital-Tuner-Converter/dp/B0013URLIK******pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1214453461&sr=8-4)
Price quoted at $179.99. I doubt they will sell at the price. It's a pretty good CECB but not that difficult to purchase!

Amazon doesn't allow direct links anymore.....

Price quoted at $179.99 ... I don't think Amazon has changed their direct link policy. Instead, I think the AVS Forum, is programmed to alter Amazon URLs, perhaps to protect the poster's Amazon Account privacy and security.

I think the following link to the high priced DTT900 works:

http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-DTT900-Digital-Tuner-Converter/dp/B0013URLIK/

Avio

I don't think Amazon has changed their direct link policy. Instead, I think the AVS Forum, is programmed to alter Amazon URLs, perhaps to protect the poster's Amazon Account privacy and security.

I think the following link to the high priced DTT900 works:

http://www.amazon.com/Zenith-DTT900-Digital-Tuner-Converter/dp/B0013URLIK/

Avio

It takes some navigation to get to the exact seller: Toyzz. Even the $24.95 shipping and handling is pretty steep. Might this be a Zenith DTT900 with gold-plated I/O jacks?

It takes some navigation to get to the exact seller: Toyzz. Even the $24.95 shipping and handling is pretty steep. Might this be a Zenith DTT900 with gold-plated I/O jacks?

For that kind of money it better have a solid diamond heastsink!

-Chris

For that kind of money it better have a solid diamond heastsink!
And here I was thinking that I was the only one who had considered the advantages of a diamond heatsink. :o

For that kind of money it better have a solid diamond heastsink!

-Chris

Beryllium or Beryllium Oxide would make a better high priced heatsink material.

FYI: AVS blocks Amazon referral links to prevent people who are members of Amazon's referral program (the person gets a cut if you buy the product) from spamming the forums with Amazon links. So that's why it's censoring the "ref" part of the URL.

I have the DDT900 and did the auto search for stations (Fresno CA) and all were programmed into the receiver except 1, the local ABC station KFSN channel 30.

I did 2 other attempts at the auto tune and still unable to receive it.

I attempted a manual input and no luck.

Any ideas?

Maybe they're not broadcasting a digital signal yet?

They are. I replied in the other thread where this was posted.

I have the DDT900 and did the auto search for stations (Fresno CA) and all were programmed into the receiver except 1, the local ABC station KFSN channel 30.

I did 2 other attempts at the auto tune and still unable to receive it.

I attempted a manual input and no luck.

Any ideas?

According to http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29 KFSN is broadcasting on only 5 KW. That is probably why you can't see it. Check out TV Fool for all the information.

Maybe they're not broadcasting a digital signal yet?


I do know they are brodcasting in HD

But this document (from Falcon_77's spreadsheet) suggests they are already at full power (182 W.) at least that's how I read it. It describes more changes in December. You could contact the station, and see if they are at full power or the 5W that TVFool says.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/cdbs/forms/prod/getattachment_exh.cgi?exhibit_id=619620

Get a better antenna system.

If you read my previous post carfully you will note that I have tried this DTV reciever (4 different ones) on various TV's at various households/locations and the referenced channel is not recieved.

According to the government charts, KFSN-TV Channel 30 in Fresno currently sends out its DTV signal on RF channel 9 and is scheduled to go to RF channel 30 for DTV after Feb. 17, 2009. In manual mode, check your signal strength for RF channel 9 to see if you even get a weak signal on the meter. If you can see a weak signal displayed but can't view the station, you need a better antenna system... more height, mast preamp, higher gain antenna, etc. Once the DTT900 picks up a viewable signal for RF channel 9, it will automatically switch the channel designation to virtual channel 30, and you won't see channel 9 anymore when you go through the channels.

If you read my previous post carfully you will note that I have tried this DTV reciever (4 different ones) on various TV's at various households/locations and the referenced channel is not recieved.

It looks like you receive RF Ch30 (UHF) but NOT RF Ch9 (VHF).

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
shows the properties of some antennae.

In manual mode, check your signal strength for RF channel 9 to see if you even get a weak signal on the meter. If you can see a weak signal displayed but can't view the station, you need a better antenna system... more height, mast preamp, higher gain antenna, etc. Once the DTT900 picks up a viewable signal for RF channel 9, it will automatically switch the channel designation to virtual channel 30, and you won't see channel 9 anymore when you go through the channels.

I do get a week signal on ch 9...not enough to get a picture. But as said previously, this is the case using various DTV recievers and on 4 seperate TV with various antennas.

I will call station tomarrow and see what they say.

Ever since I bought the Zenith DTT900 converter box, I've been trying to find the right volume balance between the setting on the TV and the setting on the converter box. If the box is set too close to 100% volume, then there is little ability to increase the volume when necessary. If the box volume is set significantly lower, then the TV volume is too high when switching to a DVD player or VCR which is in my video setup. Often when switching the video source from the DTT900 to something else, it has been necessary to drastically turn down the TV volume to prevent it from being uncomfortably loud.

I have a Zenith Universal Learning remote (which is a few years old) that I use for controlling 6 components in my video environment. Fortunately I discovered a code which provides most of the functions for the DTT900, and I was able it "teach" it the other functions I wanted on the remote. Recently, I discovered an optimum solution for setting volume when I thought about a capability of the remote called the "Punch Through" feature for control of Volume and Mute. When the remote is set to control the DTT900, by using the punch through feature, the volume and mute buttons control the TV instead of the converter box. Before I activated this feature, I set the DTT900 volume to 100%. Now volume is changed only on the TV, and I no longer have to make any changes to the converter box volume.

I'd suggest that anyone else who has a universal remote check to see if it contains a feature similar to the volume/mute punch through feature on mine. If it does, it could make life simpler in the soon-to-come converter box world. Good luck.

I'd suggest that anyone else who has a universal remote check to see if it contains a feature similar to the volume/mute punch through feature on mine.

Punch through is certainly the way to go. Most, universal remotes should have this feature. It wouldn't surprise me if the remote that comes with the DTT900 has punch through as an undocumented feature. Unless your TV doesn't have remote volume control, you should leave the digital box volume at 100% and use the TV's volume control.

I do get a week signal on ch 9...not enough to get a picture. But as said previously, this is the case using various DTV recievers and on 4 seperate TV with various antennas.

I will call station tomarrow and see what they say.

Just a "heads-up" regarding your reception of a digital DTV signal on RF channel 9. Most DTV broadcasts today are on UHF channels (13 - 69) and most folks are using UHF-only type antennas to receive them (e.g., Yagi, bay). These antennas will often provide a weak signal on the high VHF channels (7 - 12), but they are not suitable for a very low power (low ERP) signal like you have from your Channel 9. Be sure that the antennas you are using to check for a signal are both UHF/VHF antennas and a substantial VHF antenna at that. Note that there are some high-VHF only antennas available and you can get a pretty good one that won't be a physical monster like a high gain all-VHF antenna would be. Obviously rabbit ears are out of the question with low power signals.

Anyway, I just wanted to be sure that you realize that the antennas most folks are using for DTV are really UHF-only antennas and you are trying to receive a VHF broadcast.

If you already knew all this and the antennas you used for your testing were VHF-capable, then never mind. In that case you are up to the point of using a rooftop antenna instead of an attic antenna or using a pre-amp on an attic antenna.

Unless your TV doesn't have remote volume control, you should leave the digital box volume at 100% and use the TV's volume control.

The Zenith has a universal remote, but it only controls the volume of the STB, not the TV. Thus, for the average buyer/user of the Zenith DTT900, the advice would be the opposite (i.e., maximize the TV's volume w/o distortion and use the Zenith digital box's volume control to adjust the program volume from program to program and stations to station. This is true because the remote controls available with many old CRT TVs, even those noted as universal in their day, can't change the channels on the Zenith, much less be able to adjust the aspect ratio or access the guide.

Question for a friend who is not a member here.

After box is hooked up and channel scan complete. The GUIDE on certain channels said "You must go to channel to get info" I am paraphrasing. We tried to go to channels in question and push display. We get the info then go back to guide and seems the info was there for some and not all the channels.

Is this normal to go to the display for every channel for the guide to work?

BTW this is a 901 May build

thanks guys

Question for a friend who is not a member here.

After box is hooked up and channel scan complete. The GUIDE on certain channels said "You must go to channel to get info" I am paraphrasing. We tried to go to channels in question and push display. We get the info then go back to guide and seems the info was there for some and not all the channels.

Is this normal to go to the display for every channel for the guide to work?

BTW this is a 901 May build

thanks guys

That's the way my DTT900 works also. Sometimes you can click to the channel in the Guide to get the info and sometimes it tells you that you have to "Tune to channel for program information". So you hit the center button on the remote and it changes to that channel. Hit Guide and the summary information is displayed. Hit Display and the detailed information is displayed. I think this is normal and is due to the fact that the Zenith box can't upload all the available PSIP data for all the locked in channels all the time (a RAM shortage?).

That's the way my DTT900 works also. Sometimes you can click to the channel in the Guide to get the info and sometimes it tells you that you have to "Tune to channel for program information". So you hit the center button on the remote and it changes to that channel. Hit Guide and the summary information is displayed. Hit Display and the detailed information is displayed. I think this is normal and is due to the fact that the Zenith box can't upload all the available PSIP data for all the locked in channels all the time (a RAM shortage?).

The Magnavox g9 does not do that at all.

that is not good IMO. It should update it all the time. The DTVpal is supposed to update all the time

Thanks for telling me this is normal. Does not pay to go to the guide then imo

Just a "heads-up" regarding your reception of a digital DTV signal on RF channel 9. Most DTV broadcasts today are on UHF channels (13 - 69) and most folks are using UHF-only type antennas to receive them (e.g., Yagi, bay). These antennas will often provide a weak signal on the high VHF channels (7 - 12), but they are not suitable for a very low power (low ERP) signal like you have from your Channel 9.

Anyway, I just wanted to be sure that you realize that the antennas most folks are using for DTV are really UHF-only antennas and you are trying to receive a VHF broadcast.



Taked to the engineer at KFSN (the problem station) this morning. He confirmed exactly what you stated, that they are transmitting VHF and not allowed to go to a higher output due to a near station. After the conversion in Feb, they will go to UHF and all (should) be well. He also stated that they are about 5KW higher than what TVfool states.

Thanks very much for your help on this

Taked to the engineer at KFSN (the problem station) this morning. He confirmed exactly what you stated, that they are transmitting VHF and not allowed to go to a higher output due to a near station.
So get some rabbit ears and use a UVSJ to combine the signal with your UHF antenna. That'll get you the station from now till February. And who knows, there may be other stations in your area broadcasting on VHF after the conversion.

The Zenith has a universal remote, but it only controls the volume of the STB, not the TV. Thus, for the average buyer/user of the Zenith DTT900, the advice would be the opposite (i.e., maximize the TV's volume w/o distortion and use the Zenith digital box's volume control to adjust the program volume from program to program and stations to station. This is true because the remote controls available with many old CRT TVs, even those noted as universal in their day, can't change the channels on the Zenith, much less be able to adjust the aspect ratio or access the guide.
There are a couple of reasons to set the box at max volume. If there is a recorder in the mix, it does not have a volume control so recordings would lack sufficient audio. Reducing the input to the TV can cause hum and distortion from the need to raise the volume of the TV excessively. Loud pops and noises can arise during channel changing. Switching to an analog station on the TV will suddenly be way overvolume.

The so called volume control on the box is misnamed. It is an attenuator. It reduces levels only, it does not increase them. 100% = normal, lower values are less than normal. While there may be instances where the control can be used, it usually causes problems.

[/QUOTE]
The so called volume control on the box is misnamed. It is an attenuator. It reduces levels only, it does not increase them. 100% = normal, lower values are less than normal. While there may be instances where the control can be used, it usually causes problems.[/QUOTE]

This brings me to my next hurdle, the remote for the 900 does not control the power of the Philips TV (about 1994) and located in the office. To make matters worse I cannot locate, at the moment, the original remote for it.

I have the IR codes programmed for that TV into my Pronto, but the idea is to have only 1 remote. Any ideas how to get the IR codes from one remote (Pronto) into the 900 remote?

I only have 1 Pronto so that will be dedicated to the main A/V room and the wife, so just programming the IR codes from the 900 remote into the Proto would not work unless I want to hear the wife “where’s the remote?”

Any ideas how to get the IR codes from one remote (Pronto) into the 900 remote?
How about going the other way: putting the DTT900's codes into a less expensive (than the Pronto) learning remote? Almost any universal remote should have codes for the Philips, especially if only basic functions would be needed. You don't need to learn them all, just the regular use ones. A universal remote can be easily replaced but the OEM remotes can be a problem. A replacement for the DTT900 could be impossible in a couple of years. I keep my OEM remotes safely tucked away without batteries and get them out only as needed. I use JP1 programmable remotes, myself.

The Magnavox g9 does not do that at all.

that is not good IMO. It should update it all the time. The DTVpal is supposed to update all the time

Thanks for telling me this is normal. Does not pay to go to the guide then imo

Well yes it does if you want to see what's coming on next. Display will only tell you what you are watching now.

There are a couple of reasons to set the box at max volume. If there is a recorder in the mix, it does not have a volume control so recordings would lack sufficient audio. Reducing the input to the TV can cause hum and distortion from the need to raise the volume of the TV excessively. Loud pops and noises can arise during channel changing. Switching to an analog station on the TV will suddenly be way overvolume.

The so called volume control on the box is misnamed. It is an attenuator. It reduces levels only, it does not increase them. 100% = normal, lower values are less than normal. While there may be instances where the control can be used, it usually causes problems.

I stand by my previous post and you appear to confirm its appropriateness cause hum and distortion from the need to raise the volume of the TV excessively. Remember, first set the TV volume as loud as possible without distorting the signal (generally, that will be louder than anyone can stand it and plenty of volume for recordings and the like; all major analog channels will be gone in less than 9 months, so don't worry about dealing with their volume). This is how I set up an ancient Rat Shack TV with a DTT900 and I don't encounter loud pops and noises during channel changing. The DTT900 doesn't have APT, so I can't tune to analog channels for the next 7-1/2 months even if I wanted to.

I prefer the ease and practicality of having just one remote for this TV and STB and the DTT900's remote is decent enough for that function. I don't want to have to keep the DTT900's remote handy for channel changes, Guide and Display, and aspect ratio changes (which are frequent on channels broadcasting in 720p or 1080i, but switching between 16x9 and 4x3 material), while I still have to have the TV's remote next to it to control volume. Crazy! BTW, if I could afford to buy a nice programmable remote for the Rat Shack TV, I could afford to replace it and not have to deal with a converter box in the first place.

This brings me to my next hurdle, the remote for the 900 does not control the power of the Philips TV (about 1994) and located in the office. To make matters worse I cannot locate, at the moment, the original remote for it.

I have the IR codes programmed for that TV into my Pronto, but the idea is to have only 1 remote. Any ideas how to get the IR codes from one remote (Pronto) into the 900 remote?

I only have 1 Pronto so that will be dedicated to the main A/V room and the wife, so just programming the IR codes from the 900 remote into the Proto would not work unless I want to hear the wife “where’s the remote?”

Are you sure the Zenith remote won't turn on your Philips TV? Fresh set of batteries? Carefully exercise the procedure? I note this because I found the Zenith remote on the TV power side to be very limited in directional input to the TV. Unless I get the LOS just right each time, it usually takes a couple of tries to turn the TV on and off with the Zenith remote. If your situation is similar, your TV may have just missed the correct code when the remote flashed it to the TV. Just a thought based on my experience with the remote.

Question for a friend who is not a member here.

After box is hooked up and channel scan complete. The GUIDE on certain channels said "You must go to channel to get info" I am paraphrasing. We tried to go to channels in question and push display. We get the info then go back to guide and seems the info was there for some and not all the channels.

Is this normal to go to the display for every channel for the guide to work?

BTW this is a 901 May build

thanks guys



First, you have to tune in each and every channel to get the current guide information stored into the box for every channel.

Second, the channel being viewed must broadcast the correct time. If you tune into a channel where the time is off by a lot, then the guide for the other channels will not work due to the time error.

.

[/QUOTE]

Are you sure the Zenith remote won't turn on your Philips TV? Fresh set of batteries? Carefully exercise the procedure? I note this because I found the Zenith remote on the TV power side to be very limited in directional input to the TV. Unless I get the LOS just right each time, it usually takes a couple of tries to turn the TV on and off with the Zenith remote. If your situation is similar, your TV may have just missed the correct code when the remote flashed it to the TV. Just a thought based on my experience with the remote.[/QUOTE]

Fresh batteries...............................yes
Carefully exercise the procedure.........yes
Tried again......................................no luck

First, you have to tune in each and every channel to get the current guide information stored into the box for every channel.Not each and every channel, just each and every station.  If a station has subchannels, tuning the main channel or any subchannel will get the PSIP data, including guide information, for all of its channels.

I've set up 3 tvs, and in all case, the first code I found turned tv off, but not on. I eventually was successful for all. We have two Philips tvs. First one took 3 tries to find a code that worked both on/off. Other tv, same model, took about 10 tries. In retrospect, I learned that I had to press straight down on the key and a bit harder than usual, but just for the "on" part. The quirk was on the tv side, I swapped remotes and it was still that tv. So I think I missed it the first time I was on the right code. Since I had the problem after success with the first Philips tv, I stayed motivated. :-)

TV power ON/OFF problem fixed...........user error

The so called volume control on the box is misnamed. It is an attenuator. It reduces levels only, it does not increase them. 100% = normal, lower values are less than normal. While there may be instances where the control can be used, it usually causes problems.

Exactly! It's unusual for these type of boxes to amplify the volume, so usually the volume control at 100% is the 'normal' setting.

I think it might be better to label the range negative, to make it more obvious you are reducing volume if it's below max.

I wonder if people who reported the DTT900's volume level being low, are using the box with less than 100% volume setting.

I wonder if people who reported the DTT900's volume level being low, are using the box with less than 100% volume setting.

No. It has a deficient line out volume at 100%. Not so much in mono, but quite low in stereo. Much lower than the TV itself or DVD, VCR. tuner input from my A/V receiver.

The DTT901 is reported to have corrected this defect.

One TV I have is a Daewoo, not even listed on the list of supported TV's for power on/off. But it even found a code that works for this TV.

No. [The DTT900] has a deficient line out volume at 100%. Not so much in mono, but quite low in stereo. Much lower than the TV itself or DVD, VCR. tuner input from my A/V receiver.

The DTT901 is reported to have corrected this defect.

Yup. If you are within the 30 day return at CC, by all means exchange the 900 for the 901--which has supplanted the 900 altogether. It corrects all the glitches in the 900 at all stages. It's a winner, finally. I was lucky to make the exchange of two 900 CECBs for two 901s three days before the 30 day return limit expired; for that matter, I made initial purchase of the two initial April 900s one day before my govt.-issue coupons expired. So I consider myself lucky. That they couldn't get the 900 on the market after they corrected such errors as accurate stereo audio level and left-channel distortion, never mind the 901's analog pass-through, is just a sign of corporate greed.

Yup. If you are within the 30 day return at CC, by all means exchange the 900 for the 901--which has supplanted the 900 altogether. It corrects all the glitches in the 900 at all stages. It's a winner, finally. I was lucky to make the exchange of two 900 CECBs for two 901s three days before the 30 day return limit expired; for that matter, I made initial purchase of the two initial April 900s one day before my govt.-issue coupons expired. So I consider myself lucky. That they couldn't get the 900 on the market after they corrected such errors as accurate stereo audio level and left-channel distortion, never mind the 901's analog pass-through, is just a sign of corporate greed.

Since I am out of the 30 day return period with CC for my DTT900, I tried calling Zenith Service. I told them about the audio problem and that the DTT901 apparently corrects this and that I would like a replacement. She said that I would have to take this up with the retailer. She would not acknowledge any problem or defect of the DTT900. She said that what I am experiencing is a problem with the signal. She even said that I should not be using the converter box before February of 2008. By then the broadcasters are supposed to fix the audio problems. She said the only difference between the 900 and the 901 is the analog passthrough. I suppose I will try pressuring CC.

Try again with Zenith (LG Electronics USA). Be sure to take down the Customer Service representative's name or I.D. number. Explain the situation. If this representative starts to "posture" you should say "The audio problems I have found with the Zenith converter box have also been documented by other Zenith owners throughout the U.S.A. on the AVS Forum where there are nearly 2,100 postings in the main DTT900 thread with more than 304,500 viewings. Other Zenith owners have reported that Zenith has replaced converter boxes when those owners have complained about the same audio defects I have found. If Zenith is, as you say, unaware of the audio problems with the DTT900 why is it that these problems were corrected beginning with the April 2008 production of DTT900 and DTT901 models?" If the representative continues to "posture" ask to speak with a supervisor. Be sure to take down the supervisor's name or I.D. number. Advise the supervisor "Your representative (state the representative's name or I.D. number) has feigned ignorance of widely documented audio defects in the Zenith DTT900 that I am seeking to exchange for the newer model that does not have the audio defects." If necessary repeat some of the above information adding "I expect that you (state the supervisor's name or I.D. number) will be able to resolve this matter so that I need not write to the LG U.S.A Corporate Headquarters, 1000 Sylvan Avenue, Englewood Cliffs NJ, 07632; and LG Customer Service, PO Box 240007, Huntsville AL 35813; where, I expect, Corporate Officers will need to resolve the problem if you are unwilling or unable to resolve this matter."

One needs to be self-assured in order to find one's way through the corporate mindset and structure. Corporate Officers expect that subordinates will insulate them from resolving such "trivial" matters. If not, subordinates are aware that they may say goodbye to their positions.

:confused: frys.com offers the Zenith DTT900 as a "Digital TV Tuner". Price is $49.90. No mention of CECB "coupons". WHY :confused:

http://shop2.frys.com/product/5521770?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

:confused: frys.com offers the Zenith DTT900 as a "Digital TV Tuner". Price is $49.90. No mention of CECB "coupons". WHY :confused:

http://shop2.frys.com/product/5521770?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Frys is now found on the local NTIA list of approved CECB retailers. Thank you TalkingRat for that new information

DigaDo, Fry's is on the 7/2/08 participant's list. Saw it first in the CM thread.

For only $10 difference, I'll take CC's return policy/lines/procedures over Fry's anyday.

New guy here,Anyone know an Electronic hack to these digital converter boxes to get hdtv to pump to something like a monitor?I figure since the box has the tuner then all is needed is a compatible chipset to convert to analog VGA signal.Any electronics wizards out there?(BTW I know enough about electronics to build a custom circuit) so if anyone knows of a website for electronic hacks or anything helpful to my quest I would appreciate the help.

New guy here,Anyone know an Electronic hack to these digital converter boxes to get hdtv to pump to something like a monitor?I figure since the box has the tuner then all is needed is a compatible chipset to convert to analog VGA signal.Any electronics wizards out there?(BTW I know enough about electronics to build a custom circuit) so if anyone knows of a website for electronic hacks or anything helpful to my quest I would appreciate the help.

Perhaps you might find this thread interesting:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1006402

Tonight, when watching the 2008 Capitol Fourth live telecast with the National Symphony Orchestra, I heard a few instances of the annoying audio sibilant intermodulation noise with the DTT-900. During the Jimmy Smits narration before the Jerry Lee Lewis performance, the audio sibilant effect was pretty irritating, it also showed up some from elsewhere in the show.

Obviously, LG/Zenith has absolutely no intention of fixing the "audio problem" with these boxes - which is largely caused by ATSC The only real remedy will be buying a different box with our own hard-earned money.

Tonight, when watching the 2008 Capitol Fourth live telecast with the National Symphony Orchestra, I heard a few instances of the annoying audio sibilant intermodulation noise with the DTT-900. During the Jimmy Smits narration before the Jerry Lee Lewis performance, the audio sibilant effect was pretty irritating, it also showed up some from elsewhere in the show.

Obviously, LG/Zenith has absolutely no intention of fixing the "audio problem" with these boxes - which is largely caused by ATSC The only real remedy will be buying a different box with our own hard-earned money.

Was it left channel only, or was it both channels? The left channel defect that was so annoying in earlier builds hasn't been present with the April built DTT900 that I had, or the current April built DTT901.

Tonight, when watching the 2008 Capitol Fourth live telecast with the National Symphony Orchestra, I heard a few instances of the annoying audio sibilant intermodulation noise with the DTT-900. During the Jimmy Smits narration before the Jerry Lee Lewis performance, the audio sibilant effect was pretty irritating, it also showed up some from elsewhere in the show.

Obviously, LG/Zenith has absolutely no intention of fixing the "audio problem" with these boxes - which is largely caused by ATSC The only real remedy will be buying a different box with our own hard-earned money.

What month build do you have? Up to March 2008 there is a problem, the April builds don't seem to have the problem. My April build has been free of the sibilant problem. The 901's also are free of the issue.

What month build do you have? Up to March 2008 there is a problem, the April builds don't seem to have the problem. My April build has been free of the sibilant problem. The 901's also are free of the issue. Left channel only, November 2007 build date.

On a smaller tv with internal speakers, I can hear it but it doesn't make my ears ring and doesn't command attention. So I paired my Feb 08 build with a different tv.

I don't think it's the 900's fault. It happens reliably when NBC uses lapel stereo (dual) microphones, and if there are co-anchors, it's only one of them. It is not present in pre-recorded field segments nor with the weatherman live on the same set. I don't know if it's the way NBC strings audio together, or how some wearers aim their mikes. But to me it's a station problem that the box can mask -- at the expense of full frequency response. If NBC fixes their lapel mikes, I have a feeling I will prefer the fuller sound of the older 900s.

On a smaller tv with internal speakers, I can hear it but it doesn't make my ears ring and doesn't command attention. So I paired my Feb 08 build with a different tv.

I don't think it's the 900's fault. It happens reliably when NBC uses lapel stereo (dual) microphones, and if there are co-anchors, it's only one of them. It is not present in pre-recorded field segments nor with the weatherman live on the same set. I don't know if it's the way NBC strings audio together, or how some wearers aim their mikes. But to me it's a station problem that the box can mask -- at the expense of full frequency response. If NBC fixes their lapel mikes, I have a feeling I will prefer the fuller sound of the older 900s.

It truly is the fault of the older 900s, and the problem extends far beyond NBC and live newscasts.

I don't see why it's Zenith's fault when it's always the right anchor position on my local station. If it's the box, why doesn't the panel of anchors have the problem? Why do only half the ads chirp?

I'm glad I don't have the headaches, but now that I've been with the 901 sound for a few weeks, I notice what's missing, too. The improved box is like the other boxes, dampening out the full range of sound. There's less to annoy, but on stations where there was never a problem, there's also less to hear on my Klipsch speakers. On little speakers I'd never notice what's missing.

I don't see why it's Zenith's fault when it's always the right anchor position on my local station. If it's the box, why doesn't the panel of anchors have the problem? Why do only half the ads chirp?

I'm glad I don't have the headaches, but now that I've been with the 901 sound for a few weeks, I notice what's missing, too. The improved box is like the other boxes, dampening out the full range of sound. There's less to annoy, but on stations where there was never a problem, there's also less to hear on my Klipsch speakers. On little speakers I'd never notice what's missing.

All I can tell you is what I observed over here, with three Zenith converters made in January, February, and March 2008.

The problem wasn't exclusive, over here, to newscasts, nor was it restricted to a single station...had it been, I would have quickly blamed the station and not the converter, and multiple exchanges of these boxes would have never been attempted.

Simply put, left channel "chirping" was scattered over here amongst multiple stations and program sources...it was even present on a digital substation (Qubo, part of the ION network) that broadcasts nothing but programming for kids.

A spokesperson for LG was quoted, on another website, as saying that the problem was a fault with the way Dolby 5:1 signals were downmixed by the DTT900.

Thanks for explaining your perspective. Voting with my pocketbook, I do like the 901, think it's the best value, but it feels like I'm missing sound. Separation is better with the 901, and now that I think of it, I have only noticed that sensation of sound being lopped off on the shows that had the problem, I don't notice it anywhere else. It isn't solely NBC for me, but close to it.

07-06-08

Could anyone thats seen a:

Zennith DTT-900 Cat# 15-148
Zennith DTT-901 Cat# 15-193

on any Radio Shack shelf.

Please post the ZIP here?

I need an exchange box ....
(I have a coupon already tied to RS)

I'll get the store info from RadioShack.com, call, and get one transfered to my store here.

Thanks guys/gals

DTT901 vs DTT900

I had been planning to exchange 2 DTT900s for DTT901s (by 7/9) for family members, and use my coupon (expires 7/10) for a 901. For us a pass-through feature is not really needed. After some reports of problems with sound and video on the 901, I'm torn about whether the 900 is the better option at this point. I'd appreciate an opinion from anyone who is familiar with both models as to which they prefer. Thanks for your help.

Tonight, when watching the 2008 Capitol Fourth live telecast with the National Symphony Orchestra, I heard a few instances of the annoying audio sibilant intermodulation noise with the DTT-900. During the Jimmy Smits narration before the Jerry Lee Lewis performance, the audio sibilant effect was pretty irritating, it also showed up some from elsewhere in the show.

Obviously, LG/Zenith has absolutely no intention of fixing the "audio problem" with these boxes - which is largely caused by ATSC The only real remedy will be buying a different box with our own hard-earned money.I felt the overall sound quality of the whole broadcast was fair at best.(Poorly miked and mixed) The sound from my "new" DTT-900 is as good as; or better than the sound coming from Verizon FIOS with a digital connection(SD). I feel the sound is excellent!! No complaints!! The first DTT-900 box that I have returned "did" have the high frequency audio problem.

Tried to get a zenith 901 from the web site and jusk kept getting the run around from radio-shack. called their 800 number to get one and they said get the unit at the store. Called the store and they said get it from the web. Could not believe the runaround tactic. Finally gave up and got a RCA 800b1 at Wallmart. It works good and I reccomend it over the zenith 900 that I have 1 of.

Dan

Since I am out of the 30 day return period with CC for my DTT900, I tried calling Zenith Service. I told them about the audio problem and that the DTT901 apparently corrects this and that I would like a replacement. She said that I would have to take this up with the retailer. She would not acknowledge any problem or defect of the DTT900. She said that what I am experiencing is a problem with the signal. She even said that I should not be using the converter box before February of 2008. By then the broadcasters are supposed to fix the audio problems. She said the only difference between the 900 and the 901 is the analog passthrough. I suppose I will try pressuring CC.

Just buy a 901, swap the circuit boards, and take the 901 case back with the 900 board for a refund.

Just buy a 901, swap the circuit boards, and take the 901 case back with the 900 board for a refund.

Will the 901 boards fit in the 900 case? Was there changes to the internal pc design? Dealing with LG direct was a joke. The envelope with my return sticker still sits on my desk and my swapped pc DTT900 I did works fine. So much for LG's bureaucracy.

Why is this so popular?
What's so special about it? Other than that Dish/Echo model, this is the most popular.

Why is this so popular?
What's so special about it? Other than that Dish/Echo model, this is the most popular.
videobruce,
The Zenith DTV converter box is very popular for several reasons.
1. It was one of the first boxes that was available early in 2008.
2. It got good reviews on this web site, but it also had some issues.
3. It works and has very good quality picture (better than DTVPal).
4. It picks up a lot of channels ( I recently purchased a DTVPal and it pick up one more station that Zenith missed with 3 sub channels, although reception was at the edge).
5. You can program remote unit to turn off TV.

I think I know the regrettable answer already. I cannot find any way to have the DTT900/901 automatically display the CC text during mute, then cease displaying CC text when you unmute. Is there any way to do this? I didn't realize how much this came in handy, say, when the wife and I are watching TV and the phone rings, she answers it, and I can still read the CC while she deals with the call.

Why is this so popular?
What's so special about it? Other than that Dish/Echo model, this is the most popular.

I like my Zenith DTT901 because:
1) its Analog PassThrough is easy to use (power off (or unplug power)) Half my viewing is still Analog.
2) It is a good 'Thermal Design' well perforated metal case that stays cool.
3) I THINK that full functionality with my analog TiVo is a possibility.
4) I was able to walk into Circuit City's Customer Service Counter and request one.

I have used this hookup with one CECB, 1 VCR and 1 TV:
ant => CECB => VCR => TV
With this:
1) CECB (off); VCR (off Ch3); TV (on Ch??) = view analog on TV
2) CECB (on Ch??); VCR (off Ch3); TV (on Ch3) = view digital on TV
3) CECB (off); VCR (on Ch??); TV (on/off Ch3) = record analog on VCR
4) CECB (on Ch??); VCR (on Ch3); TV (on/off Ch3) = record digital on VCR

Both of my VCR-TV combinations are RF COAX only

I think I know the regrettable answer already. I cannot find any way to have the DTT900/901 automatically display the CC text during mute, then cease displaying CC text when you unmute. Is there any way to do this? I didn't realize how much this came in handy, say, when the wife and I are watching TV and the phone rings, she answers it, and I can still read the CC while she deals with the call.

Since you should leave the CECB volume at 100% and adjust the volume with the TV remote, there's no reason to use the mute function on the CECB either. Use it on your TV remote and it will not shut down the digital CC from the box. As for unmuting it, I don't know any device that will automatically cease CC display automatically when unmuted. It's a separate function in my experience. What do you have that does this? I never heard of it.

What do you have that does this? I never heard of it.

My mom and dad had a 10-year-old Panasonic 19" CRT TV that did this -- very handy, logical and intuitive. When you muted it, closed caption display began; when you unmuted it, the volume returned and closed caption stopped.

My Panasonic 27" CRT set, around 10 years old as well, also has an option to display closed captions during mute.

My 12 year old 32" Toshiba does cc on mute for at least one of its cc options, but it wasn't an actual 'mute' option, I found out about it when I chose a different cc setting.

What do you have that does this?

My Pioneer plasma (4270) and 32" JVC CRT both have this feature. The JVC is currently attached to a CM-7000 tuner, and when I mute the TV, I get the captions. No need to do anything in the tuner. Unfortunately my 20" panasonic TV does not have this feature, and that's the one with the Zenith, so I haven't tried it on that one.

Since you should leave the CECB volume at 100% and adjust the volume with the TV remote, there's no reason to use the mute function on the CECB either. Use it on your TV remote and it will not shut down the digital CC from the box. As for unmuting it, I don't know any device that will automatically cease CC display automatically when unmuted. It's a separate function in my experience. What do you have that does this? I never heard of it.

My LG LST4200A ATSC tuner does this (i.e., Mute On-CC On; Mute Off-CC Off), but then again it as a $300 tuner in its day.

My 12 year old 32" Toshiba does cc on mute for at least one of its cc options, but it wasn't an actual 'mute' option, I found out about it when I chose a different cc setting.
I have an older second-hand Toshiba that was displaying cc when I muted it. IT DROVE ME NUTS! It took some fiddling with the cc options to find one that turned it off.

As to muting via converter box or TV . . . If the phone rings, as a reflex I hit mute. But I have made the mistake of recording a show that I had muted via the converter box and of course, no sound on the recording. :eek: Requires real mindfulness to remember which mute to use. ;)

My Pio Elite plasma and cheapo Sanyo analog both have it.

The power supply looks just like the one that is in Coby DVD players that sell for $25
I have had to fix a few and I would definately check the voltage rating on the electrolitics as they use what ever is the cheapest that day. And pay no attention to volage rating of the cap. example a 10V cap on a 12V supply. they work for a while.

easy fix though Clark

I would like to track down a Zenith DTT900 with a Sanyo tuner chipset. Is there a way to determine this without opening up and looking inside at the circuit boards? Preferably via serial or model numbers on the outside of the retail box?

The shift was made in April, so any box prior to April as far as I know is Sanyo. Production month is stamped on the side of the box. Anything April, you'd have to shine a flashlight through the vents to see.

Edit: But see wh5916's comment in post 2121 -- LG spotted as early as March production, too. So it would have to be Feb 08 or earlier to be Sanyo for sure, without the visual check through the vents.

Thanks TalkingRat.

The shift was made in April, so any box prior to April as far as I know is Sanyo. Production month is stamped on the side of the box. Anything April, you'd have to shine a flashlight through the vents to see.

The March build DT900 that I had for awhile had the LG tuner. The two that I had prior to that, January and February builds, had the Sanyo.

I would like to track down a Zenith DTT900 with a Sanyo tuner chipset. Is there a way to determine this without opening up and looking inside at the circuit boards? Preferably via serial or model numbers on the outside of the retail box?

Someone already anwered the question, but I'm curious as to why you want the Sanyo tuner. I had one in an April DTT900 box that seemed a trifle more sensitive than the LG, but I traded that CECB for a DTT901 which has the audio levels corrected and has analog pass-through. It turned out to be a very worthwhile trade because the 901, while only available with an LG tuner, have a revised version of it, which I find to be, if anything, more sensitive than the Sanyo in the 900, and certainly more sensitive than the LG in the 900 I had, with a picture that emphasizes dot-crawl and moire' effects less.

As for unmuting it, I don't know any device that will automatically cease CC display automatically when unmuted. It's a separate function in my experience. What do you have that does this?

Just about every CC-capable analog TV I have ever owned, that's all.

ok, its been 2 weeks since i sent my zenith box in for rma. the process started off good, they send a prepaid pickup sticker and the shipping company picks it up from your house. i guess they must be bogged down with returns because i tracked the shipping and it got to their service center within 2 days. 2 weeks later i'm still waiting for the box to come back:(

The Zenith DTV converter box is very popular for several reasons.
1. It was one of the first boxes that was available early in 2008.
2. It got good reviews on this web site, but it also had some issues.
3. It works and has very good quality picture (better than DTVPal).
4. It picks up a lot of channels ( I recently purchased a DTVPal and it pick up one more station that Zenith missed with 3 sub channels, although reception was at the edge).
5. You can program remote unit to turn off TV. Agreed. CECBs only started showing up at retail locations at the very end of January and early February, and the LG/Zenith was the best-selling and best-regarded of the early first-generation CECBs (along with the private-labeled LG/Insignia). For those seeking to be early adopters, there were very few choices in February, March and April.

Agreed. CECBs only started showing up at retail locations at the very end of January and early February, and the LG/Zenith was the best-selling and best-regarded of the early first-generation CECBs (along with the private-labeled LG/Insignia). For those seeking to be early adopters, there were very few choices in February, March and April.

And black, well perforated metal case that keeps it cool => will last longer.

yea the digital stream atleast the one i had was a cheap plastic clad ugly little thing with no vents that i remember.

Could other DTT-900 users share their thoughts about the accuracy of the DTT-900's signal strength measurements? The signal strength bars don't list a numerical percentage so these are visual guesses, I've noticed that the DTT-900 generally doesn't display a picture when signal falls below 50% and it doesn't really "lock in" a signal unless signal is roughly 65% or higher. What have been others' experiences?

Also, I've seen a lot of CM-7000 users make comparisons against the DTT-900/901 indicating that the Channel Master circuitry has superior rejection of multipath interference. What have others found or noticed using the DTT900 in multipath-ridden suburban environments?

And black, well perforated metal case that keeps it cool => will last longer. Strongly agree. Even now, too many CECBs have plastic cases with inadequate ventilation. That increases the risk of heat-related electrical malfunctions.

I bought the Zenith 901 today at circut city, and everytime I turn it off and then back on, the instalation guide shows up. It's like the box resets it's self everytime it's turned off. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

I bought the Zenith 901 today at circut city, and everytime I turn it off and then back on, the instalation guide shows up. It's like the box resets it's self everytime it's turned off. Has anyone else had this happen to them?Assuming you're taking the initial installation wizard all the way through to completion, it shouldn't be running it again after simply powering the unit off and back on again.

Yes. the initial instalation wizard. It looks for the channels and everything everytime I turn it on.

Yes. the initial instalation wizard. It looks for the channels and everything everytime I turn it on.If you're completing the installation wizard and it still runs again the next time you power on the converter, it must be defective. Take it back to CC and exchange it for a new one.

If you're completing the installation wizard and it still runs again the next time you power on the converter, it must be defective. Take it back to CC and exchange it for a new one. You might have acquired a defective DTT901. There haven't been other reports of this problem with earlier DTT900s or the newer DTT901, but stay tuned.

Yes. the initial instalation wizard. It looks for the channels and everything everytime I turn it on.

Any chance you're killing power to the box, rather than using it's on/off switch? Initialization results may be in RAM - volitile memory - so pulling the plug starts you all over.
Frank

Any chance you're killing power to the box, rather than using it's on/off switch? Initialization results may be in RAM - volitile memory - so pulling the plug starts you all over.
Frank
Not so! I have had my second DTT901 unplugged for over a week, just plugged it in and memory was still intact.

Could other DTT-900 users share their thoughts about the accuracy of the DTT-900's signal strength measurements? The signal strength bars don't list a numerical percentage so these are visual guesses, I've noticed that the DTT-900 generally doesn't display a picture when signal falls below 50% and it doesn't really "lock in" a signal unless signal is roughly 65% or higher. What have been others' experiences?



I've noticed pretty much the same with both the DTT-900 and DTT-901.

Yes. the initial instalation wizard. It looks for the channels and everything everytime I turn it on.

The converter is definitely defective.

Any chance you're killing power to the box, rather than using it's on/off switch? Initialization results may be in RAM - volitile memory - so pulling the plug starts you all over.
Frank

No. I use the remote to turn it off and on.

Re: TVs that automatically unCC when mute is turned off

Just about every CC-capable analog TV I have ever owned, that's all.

Really? The ones I've with CC capability (all Samsungs) had are either CC-on for both muted or unmuted, or CC-off for both. It never occurred to me why someone would want CC only for muted sound. But that may be since I need it for unmuted viewing because I am hearing-impaired (the actual reason for CC).

People use muted CC in bars and airport lounges and waiting rooms.

Someone already anwered the question, but I'm curious as to why you want the Sanyo tuner. I had one in an April DTT900 box that seemed a trifle more sensitive than the LG, but I traded that CECB for a DTT901 which has the audio levels corrected and has analog pass-through. It turned out to be a very worthwhile trade because the 901, while only available with an LG tuner, have a revised version of it, which I find to be, if anything, more sensitive than the Sanyo in the 900, and certainly more sensitive than the LG in the 900 I had, with a picture that emphasizes dot-crawl and moire' effects less.

Hmmmm.....

I am looking to maximize tuner sensitity.

Is the natural manufacture variation within the margin of difference between the tuner specs?

Im going to get one tommorrow. I wonder if I should search for a DTT900 Sanyo tuner, or a DTT901?

Hmmmm.....

I am looking to maximize tuner sensitity.

Is the natural manufacture variation within the margin of difference between the tuner specs?

Im going to get one tommorrow. I wonder if I should search for a DTT900 Sanyo tuner, or a DTT901?

This has been discussed several times within the course of this long thread. The feeling seems to be that in the DTT900, the Sanyo tuner is the more sensitive than its LG counterpart by a hair for some people, though well within the margin of difference. I happened to like it better myself when I had one of each. However, the only DTT900 to get is the April run, and very, very few of those seemed to have the Sanyo tuner. I just happened into one. Prior to April, the problem of left-channel audio distortion was apparently too obstrusive, so that deflected the enjoyment one could get from the Sanyo over the LG tuners anyway.

In April/May, the DTT900 was pretty much replaced by the same-priced DTT901 (also covered by the govt. coupon), in which subtle changes in the now-ubiquitous LG tuner put it at least on par with the Sanyo in the DTT900. For myself, I found that I was receiving stations perfectly that didn't even show up as possibilities when setting up the Sanyo tuner in the DTT900. Poor or drifty signals are about the same, pixelating when the signal goes out of range. The DTT901 is probably the one you'll find most, and I recommend it over the 900. It has solved all the noted problems. Besides correcting the left-channel distortion of pre-April boxes, it also brings the volume of stereo in line with mono, where the 900 had been substantially quieter and difficult to match with TV, VHS, DVD output; and of course, the 901 has pass-through where the 900 didn't.

It never occurred to me why someone would want CC only for muted sound.Well, for when one gets a phone call, for example.

Actually, I use the feature often. I even used to listen to music or the radio while watching it sometimes.

Also, I've seen a lot of CM-7000 users make comparisons against the DTT-900/901 indicating that the Channel Master circuitry has superior rejection of multipath interference. What have others found or noticed using the DTT900 in multipath-ridden suburban environments?

I think that Holland's post and my summary following post a few pages back in this thread pretty much say that there isn't any substantial difference in the sensitivity or multi-path performance between any of the CECBs. If the vendor met the CECB requirements, and those apparently are pushing the envelope for devices of this nature and price point, then a given CECB model will pretty much perform the same as another CECB model.

Bottom line: There is likely much greater variation in performance based on the manufacturer's QC/QA and random sample defects than there is between the designs and properly manufactured samples of the various CECB. Note that Consumer Reports apparently didn't see enough difference in sensitivity or multi-path performance to even make those criteria in their current on-line review of CECBs. Their primary criteria is PQ from the CECB.

I think that many folks figured that LG has had a good reputation in the ATSC tuner business over the past several years, so they are likely to make a good CECB. I know that was part of my thinking in buying a Zenith. My Zenith is performing in a high multi-path environment (i.e., large, amplified attic antenna; numerous channels at widely varying ERP from approximately the same location approximately 10 miles away) and performs better than any of the other three ATSC tuners using the same signal. My Zenith maxed-out the signal from all but one channel and none of my other ATSC tuners come close to that. I put a 6 dB attenuator into the coax input of the Zenith to calm things down a bit. Now, only half of the signals are maxed-out, but the rest are all over 80%. Don't worry about it!

Thanks RobertES, I will look for the Sanyo 900, just for the fun of it.....but will be going to buy a 901.

I wish I hadnt bought a RCA DTA800B1 with my coupon....so I could get the CM7000 too.

So is the DTT-901 a worthy replacement for the DTT-900? From what the basic specs show, the only difference seemed to be the addition of the pass-through feature, which could be important to many.

Different LG tuner.....from previous LG tuner and previous Sanyo tuner.

It's typical of LG that the only acknowledged difference between 900 and 901 is pass-through. After all, they want to unload the hundreds of thousands of defective 900s that remain unsold. They never actually even acknowledged the left-channel audio problem that was corrected only in the April 900 run. Someone posted fairly recently that they were not acknowledging the 901's correct audio level for stereo, finally matching mono, whereas the 900 was practically useless in stereo since the gain was so much lower than mono, and turning up the TV gain resulted in added hum (and was dangerous if you forgot to tun the TV volume back down before switching back to analog, or VCR, DVD, etc.) The tuner in the 901 even has a different model number from the 900 LG tuner, and the look of the picture is less edgy, in addition to arguably better sensitivity.

Something to keep in mind when reading critical comments about the DTT900's audio issues: there seem to be significant and random sample variations in audio performance of individual DTT900s. I think part of LG/Zenith's excuse for not publicly acknowledging audio defects has been that not all pre-April builds manifest the audio problem. On occasion my two DTT900s (November 07 and February 08 builds) have manifested audio distortion but it's not a constant problem. I don't anticipate LG/Zenith will voluntarily recall the units, nor do I anticipate the FCC or other agency will mandate a recall.

CEB II raised excellent points. The biggest challenge most of us face is getting an appropriate antenna which will correctly pull in stable reception at our particular residence.

Also, my experiences using antennas in my location have made me more serious about picking up a non-CECB-crippled ATSC tuner which can decode nonencrypted QAM channels from cable.

I think that Holland's post and my summary following post a few pages back in this thread pretty much say that there isn't any substantial difference in the sensitivity or multi-path performance between any of the CECBs. Disagree.

I tested the Zenith versus the DTVpal.

- The Zenith DTT900 gets 4 stations crystal clear. The DTVpal gets the same 4 stations but three of them have lots of macro-blocking & freezing, so effectively only 1 station is watchable. DTVpal is definitely inferior to the Zenith (in terms of sensitivity).

4 stations versus 1 station.

Disagree.I tested the Zenith versus the DTVpal.

- The Zenith DTT900 gets 4 stations crystal clear. The DTVpal gets the same 4 stations but three of them have lots of macro-blocking & freezing, so effectively only 1 station is watchable. DTVpal is definitely inferior to the Zenith (in terms of sensitivity). 4 stations versus 1 station. rrrrrroger lives in a rural area where OTA ATSC reception is very difficult, but NTSC reception is passable or even fairly good on many channels.

I've studied the TV Fool findings for similar rural and semi-rural communities in Washington and Oregon, using US Post Office addresses. In many cases, these outlying areas receive some reasonable amount of snowy-but-viewable NTSC reception but very minimal or nonexistent ATSC reception.

rrrrrroger's complaints about ATSC reception performance are a stark reminder of problems some viewers may experience. I'm looking forward to his detailed report with the Channel Master 7000 when he receives it.

Had/have all three.

In order of sensitivity:

1.) CM7000

2.) Zenith (it was an LG DTT-900)

3.) DTVPal.

Zenith DTT900, April build, Sanyo tuner (and Zenith DTT901 May build in first photo)

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0126.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0127.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0129.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0130.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn88/EscapeVelo/IMG_0132.jpg

Alright, so I went to CC and they had 30 or so of April build Zenith DTT900's and not as many, but quite a few May build Zenith DTT901's out on display, probaly about a dozen plus.

I tried to remember how to determine which 900's had the Sanyo tuners and which had the Zenith tuners, but couldnt remember. Ther first box I opened up and looked inside and saw a Green sticker on the tuner module. So the sales dude came over to check out the customer that was opening up boxes and rumaging through them. I told him I was looking for a Sanyo tuner version of the 900 in April build date. He didnt know what I was talking about. I asked him if he had internet access so I could double check the markers for the Sanyo vs the LG tuner modules, and he set me up on one of their terminals. I logged on to AVSforum and went to the appropriate thread and searched for "green and Sanyo" and it took me right to the post by RobertES that explained that the Sanyo had White Stickers and the LG had Green Stickers on top of the tuner modules inside the 900 boxes. I then proceded to rifle through a whole shelf of April build 900's with no luck, all Green stickers. It wasnt looking promising. Undaunted, I moved to the next shelf down, and started rifling those boxes of 900 April builds, and about the 3rd one I picked up had the White Sticker with UBA00LA printed on it. Score!

Then I decided to buy a 901 too, and I will be testing them along with the DTA800B1 and Vizio GV42LF tuners, probably with a Single Bow Tie or the DB2 unamped, to determine tuner performance.

Zenith DTT900 Sanyo tuner April build vs Zenith DTT901 vs RCA DTA800B1 vs Vizio GV42LF

Primarily focussed on tuner performance....

The Zenith boxes have very cool Red to Blue logo lights on the front of the units. They are metal cases which are a bit larger than the plastic cased RCA DTA800B1. Overall feeling of better fit and finish. The Zeniths also came with a Composite Video + RCA Stereo 3 wire cable plus a 75ohm coax, the RCA just a 75ohm coax. The remote response was lightning fast and worked without the remote being directly pointed on the Zenith, sluggish on the RCA which required direct pointing, really irritating. Both the Zeniths and the RCA have channel change buttons on the front of the unit for when the remote goes missing.

I really liked the GUI on the Zenith better, it was sharper(higher resolution) as well. The direct channel add was a MUST HAVE feature for people in deep fringe reception areas. RCA lacks it. Additionally, you can channel up and down while in the signal meter mode, also an EXTREMELY helpful feature as regards ease of use. The signal meter bar on the Zenith is devided into 3 colors each 1/3 of the bar long.....Red(Bad), Green(OK), Blue(Good).....no specific numbers are given like on the RCA which gives you 1-100. All in all, Ill definitely take the Zenith setup over the RCA. The channel scans were much faster on the Zeniths as well.

On to the tuner performance.....

2 = real channel 50
4 = real channel 34
5 = real channel 47
7 = real channel 49
16 = real channel 44
24 = real channel 40
36 = real channel 35

For this test I used the DB2 unamped and 6ft of coax to each of the units which were place on top of the Oppo. The Vizio was hooked up to the unamped DB2 with 12ft of coax.

The RCA picked up 2.1, 2.2, 5.1, 24.1, and 36.1, on the channel scan. With 2.1 and 2.2 and 24.1 coming in at 20 to 25 percent. 5.1 and 36.1 coming in at 15 percent.

Meh.

Zenith DTT900, April build, Sanyo tuner....

I hooked this one up and did a channel scan and picked up all my channels. 4 coming in at just above Red(Bad) into the Green. The rest hovering right at or above the Green/Blue(Good) mark. A couple well into the Blue. When running the channel scan, it went through channel number by channel number and I noticed it hesitated at all of my channels that it picked up(and also 1 other number which it didnt pick up).

Zenith DTT901....

Ran a channel scan and picked up all of my stations. The signal levels were similar to the Zenith900AprilSanyo, but several while not Bad were noticably lower on at the Green/Blue area. 16 was quite a bit lower...nearing the Red(Bad) side of the Green(OK) area. And as before the channel scan hesitated, but on more "non scanned channel numbers." I noted these numbers as 17, 23, 28, and 39.

So I went to the manual channel menu selection....and numbered up and down to these numbers and low and behold all 4 of them had signal right at and just below the Red(Bad) and Green(OK) signal meter levels. So at each channel while on the signal meter, I moved the DB2 around trying to get a signal increase and lock a station. I was able to increase the level a bit on a couple of those channels but not much and never locked a channel with video images.

So....back to the Zenith900AprilSanyo...

Back into the signal meter manual channel selection and moved the DB2 around on each one....and low and behold, I locked 23 which seems to be a PBS station. Eureka!!! (I missed a PBS show on the Cold War through all this...Ill catch it later.) Its signal strength was into the upper side of Green(OK) heading towards Blue(Good). The others stayed right below the Red(Bad) and Green(OK) demarcation line similar to the Zenith 901.

So....I hooked up the Vizio to the unamped DB2 in the North facing corner window....and found that I could watch all my stations except 4(one of my 2 weakest). And with some breakups on 7 PBS Charleston. I also tried directly keying 17, 23, 28, and 39, but all I got was fuzzy analog on 23 for a second.

So here are my rankings.

1. Zenith DTT900 April build Sanyo tuner
2. Zenith DTT901
3. Vizio GV42LF
Distant 4th. RCA DTA800B1

The 2 Zeniths were tight for tuner sensitivity, but the lock in on video and several higher signal meter reading....strangely one lower reading as well with the Sanyo tuner wins the day. The Vizio was handicapped with 1db down 6 extra feet of coax but still beats the RCA easy, and made a respectable showing.

That is all.

Something to keep in mind when reading critical comments about the DTT900's audio issues: there seem to be significant and random sample variations in audio performance of individual DTT900s. I think part of LG/Zenith's excuse for not publicly acknowledging audio defects has been that not all pre-April builds manifest the audio problem. On occasion my two DTT900s (November 07 and February 08 builds) have manifested audio distortion but it's not a constant problem. I don't anticipate LG/Zenith will voluntarily recall the units, nor do I anticipate the FCC or other agency will mandate a recall.

CEB II raised excellent points. The biggest challenge most of us face is getting an appropriate antenna which will correctly pull in stable reception at our particular residence.

Also, my experiences using antennas in my location have made me more serious about picking up a non-CECB-crippled ATSC tuner which can decode nonencrypted QAM channels from cable.

probably its loss of hearing as people age as well. many older people can't hear the high frequency noise of the defect

...The 2 Zeniths were tight for tuner sensitivity, but the lock in on video and several higher signal meter reading....strangely one lower reading as well with the Sanyo tuner wins the day...

Thanks for the analysis. With every other condition identical, I found that the Sanyo/900 tuner was the generally the most sensitive by a hair as well, not freezing on some drifty signals; but sometimes it froze/pixelated on channels where even LG/900 did *not* do so. The LG/901, in scanning, picks up a couple of distant stations cleanly and consistently that were not even noticed, and could not be chosen, by the Sanyo/900 at all. Also, your Sanyo/900's locking into your weak ch. 23, while your LG/901 didn't, doesn't necessarily mean smooth sailing. As has been reported here several times (including by me), the Sanyo may lock onto a weak station as "okay-to-good", but it will freeze in a heartbeat when such stations drift from good to bad--which is often--and the Sanyo goes to "zero-signal" from "good" or "okay" far faster than the LG/900, and certainly faster than the LG/901. So Sanyo/900's locking a weak station at a particular moment doesn't mean much in the long run. Still, I probably would have kept the Sanyo/900 since pass-through on the 901 simply eliminates a splitter. The type of picture from Sanyo/900 is crisper but noisier, whereas on LG/901 it is less "artifacty". The deal-breaker for me was the huge discrepancy between stereo and mono audio levels in the 900 which makes it unacceptable: needing to raise the TV volume for stereo intensifies hum on a plain stereo TV, it makes recording stereo broadcasts virtually impossible, and most significantly, it can be seriously hazardous to one's hearing when switching to sources (VCR, DVD) other than the CECB if you forget to turn the volume back down. The 901, on the whole, is therefore a more practical solution.

Pulling the AC plug from the outlet does NOT default the box. My equipment is on a UPS that I turn off when not in use. My boxes retained their memory upon power up.

I can confirm that. I was on vacation for 3 weeks and unplugged all AV equipment. All settings remain intact when I plug it back.

Thanks for your informed observations RobertES. Much appreciated.

Robert ES; The audio issue is only through the RF out?

I returned the RCA DTA800B1 which had a serial number ending in 204A6*** for the same model ending in 216A1***. No improvement in tuner performance. Though my language may have been too harsh on the DTA800B1 in my original comparison.

There were also serial numbers with 205A**** and 212A**** and 215A****.

If that makes sense to anybody.

Robert ES; The audio issue is only through the RF out?

It depends on which audio issue you mean. The "chirping" distortion in the left channel on all DTT900 units predating April 2008 was only through the A/V, *not* the RF. This stands to reason since digital audio can only be transmitted in mono through RF (the mixing of the channels in RF possibly masking that problem).

The extreme difference between stereo and mono audio levels in both channels of the DTT900 was certainly in A/V connections--even in the April DTT900 (their final run), and if I remember correctly, also through the mixed-down-to-mono version of stereo broadcasts received via RF (I exchanged my DTT900 for a 901 a while ago now, so I don't remember that point distinctly as I principally used the far superior A/V). As the only way of getting stereo from a CECB is, of course, through A/V, one wants the levels to be the same whether stereo or mono is selected; thus the DTT901 is the only real option.

Could someone repost the various tweak solutions to remedy audio issues on the original DTT900 models? Some boxes manifest audio artifact problems more frequently than others, but it would be nice to self-repair given that LG/Zenith will not do so.

Could someone repost the various tweak solutions to remedy audio issues on the original DTT900 models? Some boxes manifest audio artifact problems more frequently than others, but it would be nice to self-repair given that LG/Zenith will not do so.

Well, there's the simple brute force adjustable audio filter approach. See, for instance,
http://www.themusicworkshopchicago.com/special/zenith.htm

I'd use the external box method, just to keep the basic unit pristine. But that's just me.

There's a bit of trial and error in the sound adjustment. Some people suggested setting the box volume on 100. That didn't really do it for me. I found I could adjust the tv speaker volume higher than was usually comfortable, so there was less volume from the receiver required. Eventually, I changed from dolby to stadium or hall setting so the receiver volume could be lower when there was a program with silibance. I turned off dolby for a couple movies over the two months I had the 900 on the main tv, but it was almost always news shows needing adjustment. Other alternatives are to change the menu setting to mono, or turn the left speaker balance way down. My 900 is now on a smaller tv with internal stereo speakers, and it is generally ok.

Could someone repost the various tweak solutions to remedy audio issues on the original DTT900 models? Some boxes manifest audio artifact problems more frequently than others, but it would be nice to self-repair given that LG/Zenith will not do so.

they take them back. its just they take forever. my rmas been 3 weeks so far:P

I have been having a power-up glitch on two new APT converters from both Insignia and Zenith. If my box has been sitting a while powered down, and I then try to turn it on via remote, the unit does not respond unless I press the ON button several times. Once powered up, it will turn off and on with only the usual one-second lag. I have both a new May-build Zenith DTT901 and a May-build Insignia NS-DXA1-APT that exhibit this same problem. My April-build DTT900 and a few other DTT900's I have tried do not exhibit this. Has anybody experienced this power-up glitch on any of the new Zenith/Insignia APT boxes?

Well, there's the simple brute force adjustable audio filter approach. See, for instance,
http://www.themusicworkshopchicago.com/special/zenith.htm

I'd use the external box method, just to keep the basic unit pristine. But that's just me.

If you need a solution and LG or whoever you got it from won't swap it out for a newer model, my filter works very well. I used it in two earlier DTT-900's.

Turbo, one tip I read here from a veteran AVS poster: start with a fresh, branded battery for all new electronics. If that doesn't fix it, you could swap 900 and 901 remotes and see what happens. You could get lucky and both boxes could be happy with the swap, in which case all you have to do is customize the tv power button again.

I have been having a power-up glitch on two new APT converters from both Insignia and Zenith. If my box has been sitting a while powered down, and I then try to turn it on via remote, the unit does not respond unless I press the ON button several times. Once powered up, it will turn off and on with only the usual one-second lag. I have both a new May-build Zenith DTT901 and a May-build Insignia NS-DXA1-APT that exhibit this same problem. My April-build DTT900 and a few other DTT900's I have tried do not exhibit this. Has anybody experienced this power-up glitch on any of the new Zenith/Insignia APT boxes?

Could it be s l u g g i s h l y responding to the 'alarm clock'?

Some electronic equipment can seem very slow to start up.

Some TVs keep parts of their circuitry 'powered-up' even when 'turned-off' to speed up the 'turn-on' process. This is more convenient to the customer, but uses more electricity.

The Analog PassThrough devices have the additional APT circuitry to adjust on start up.

I have been having a power-up glitch on two new APT converters from both Insignia and Zenith. If my box has been sitting a while powered down, and I then try to turn it on via remote, the unit does not respond unless I press the ON button several times. Once powered up, it will turn off and on with only the usual one-second lag. I have both a new May-build Zenith DTT901 and a May-build Insignia NS-DXA1-APT that exhibit this same problem. My April-build DTT900 and a few other DTT900's I have tried do not exhibit this. Has anybody experienced this power-up glitch on any of the new Zenith/Insignia APT boxes?

I noticed the same thing with my April build DTT900. However it doesn't always do it after long shutdowns. More like 50%. Initially I thought I'm not pointing the remote the right way, but now I realized it's the box. I have to press the power button several times. Haven't tried pressing the power button on the box.

The Analog PassThrough devices have the additional APT circuitry to adjust on start up. My two early DTT900s (November 07 and February 08 builds) are fairly quick to start up.

What's unknown is whether the slower "boot cycle" is due to APT, or due to other changes in the Zenith's design since the original DTT900 models.

I have been having a power-up glitch on two new APT converters from both Insignia and Zenith. If my box has been sitting a while powered down, and I then try to turn it on via remote, the unit does not respond unless I press the ON button several times. Once powered up, it will turn off and on with only the usual one-second lag. I have both a new May-build Zenith DTT901 and a May-build Insignia NS-DXA1-APT that exhibit this same problem. My April-build DTT900 and a few other DTT900's I have tried do not exhibit this. Has anybody experienced this power-up glitch on any of the new Zenith/Insignia APT boxes?
Are you using an LCD display? Some LCD displays send a bunch of stray IR when they are first turned on and this affects other devices' ability to receive their IR, leading the user to think it is the other devices that are having the issues since they usually turn them on at the same time.

Different devices react differently to stray IR. Some have more robust protocols than others so the behavior will not be consistent across all your devices (assuming this is the problem you are seeing)

You can test the theory out by leaving your TV on for a while (5-10 minutes), then turning on the Zenith to see if it makes any difference. Alternatively, just leave your TV turned off.

I noticed the same thing with my April build DTT900. However it doesn't always do it after long shutdowns. More like 50%. Initially I thought I'm not pointing the remote the right way, but now I realized it's the box. I have to press the power button several times. Haven't tried pressing the power button on the box.

Yep, that's about what I experience. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll respond to a few of them. First, let me clarify, I am not saying that it takes a l-o-n-g time to see a picture after I hit the ON button. I am saying that the red LED on the front stays red even after multiple presses of the remote power button. I am using fully charged Sanyo Eneloop NiMH cells in my remotes, even the unit that does not fail to respond in a timely manner. Also, I have tried all three Zenith/Insignia remotes, including the one from the "good" unit, and after setting for a spell, they have, more often than not, failed to turn on the suspect units. So, this is definitely not a remote control problem. If it is a "boot cycle," I am not sure I see why it would then power up instantaneously upon immediate subsequent power-ups. I guess I will be patient next time and press the remote ON button only once, and see if the red LED ever turns blue and the unit turns on. Lastly, no, I am not using an LCD display, a simple 19" CRT set.

Well, I just went in and hit the ON button once, and waited. After 15 seconds, I pressed it again. After another ten seconds or so, I hit it a third time, and it turned on instantly, and every time thereafter. Boot cycle or not, this is simply not acceptable. Having a unit that turns on when I need it to is far more important to me than APT.

Frankly, I think this is just the next round of BS to come our way from these units. Other than the carousel of botched offerings these Zenith/Insignia's are turning out to be, what would be the next suggested brand of CECB?

Frankly, I think this is just the next round of BS to come our way from these units. Other than the carousel of botched offerings these Zenith/Insignia's are turning out to be, what would be the next suggested brand of CECB? Perhaps the Channel Master, but there are reports of some quality-control issues.

It seems that LG/Zenith's attempt to remedy defective audio problems in the original DTT900 created new quality-control problems, such as inability to power up. It makes one wonder whether some CECBs being sold today will actually still be operational on the official analog shutoff day of 02/17/09. Does anyone else see the irony that some of these government-subsidized electronic devices might not be durable enough to last a few months past the analog shutoff date?

Well-regarded brands which have remained conspicuously absent from the CECB market are:
Samsung
Toshiba
Sharp
Panasonic
JVC
Sony

Frankly, I think this is just the next round of BS to come our way from these units. Other than the carousel of botched offerings these Zenith/Insignia's are turning out to be, what would be the next suggested brand of CECB?

They finally get the DTT-900 long drawn out audio issue solved, make one month of production run and change the design to the 901. Now we start all over again with a new issue. LG must be designing these things in some garage.

Maybe in about 6 months the 901 will be ready for primetime. Then they will come out with a 902. I just have to laugh :rolleyes:

My April build 900 don't have this startup issue. Funny that my $10 Magnavox TB100MW9 I got from Wally World in March with my first coupon has never had ANY issues at all, Go Figure......

Well-regarded brands which have remained conspicuously absent from the CECB market are:
Samsung
Toshiba
Sharp
Panasonic
JVC
SonyWell, Toshiba's tuners are Funai's, so they're kinda out there in a sense.

Well-regarded brands which have remained conspicuously absent from the CECB market are:
Samsung
Toshiba
Sharp
Panasonic
JVC
Sony
The major manufacturers stated upfront that there would be no demand for the tuners because everybody would have bought a new TV by the time that they were needed. They based this on the "fact" that people "replace" their sets every 7 years.

The major manufacturers stated upfront that there would be no demand for the tuners because everybody would have bought a new TV by the time that they were needed. They based this on the "fact" that people "replace" their sets every 7 years.

well perhaps they didn't want to compete on a low margin product in a field of low cost competitors in an area where people wouldn't spend much anyways. not lucrative, and people are upgrading to hd sets at an ever faster rate. walmart shelves are filled with nothing but flat panels these days, many at very cheap prices, even the biggest luddite sees the changes coming.

....people are upgrading to hd sets at an ever faster rate. walmart shelves are filled with nothing but flat panels these days, many at very cheap prices, even the biggest luddite sees the changes coming. Agree. While the overall US economy is slowing, the general public seems to be going out of its way to buy a LOT of flat-panel TVs. Particularly telling is the situation at Walmart: three years ago, this "main street" retailer sold almost exclusively CRTs and just a handful of LCD and plasma sets. But since then, Walmart's huge market clout has been a key reason LCD/plasma TV prices have plummeted! Last time I checked, the local (non-SuperCenter) Walmart carried at least 60 different flat-panel sets but only five CRTs.

One curiosity of all this: thrifty folks who need to replace their broken set not only can buy a decent-quality LCD set inexpensively - if they really are cheap, they can find lots of friends and neighbors offering perfectly-functional but "obsolete" standard-def CRTs for free or very cheap prices. This latter phenomenon may actually be what is driving consumer demand for CECBs - folks who obtained a fully-operational free "hand-me-down" six-year-old CRT. For many of those folks, connecting that six-year-old standard def Panasonic, Sharp or Toshiba 27" CRT to a CECB is quite an upgrade over what they are accustomed to.

. . . if they really are cheap, they can find lots of friends and neighbors offering perfectly-functional but "obsolete" standard-def CRTs for free or very cheap prices.
I found several no-so-old CRTs on Craig's List at a really good price. I won't be needing to buy a flat panel for many years to come!

Addressing two recently dicussed matters:
[1] my two May 901 CECBs have no powering problems. But sometimes, one might have to hold the "on" button down a fraction of a second longer than a quick press. For those people having problems, this could be the simple solution.
[2] Yeah, the LCD is here to stay. Thanks again to Walmart, people are, as ever, being bullied and hoodwinked about an "improvement" over CRT. If you ask most technicians, they will still say, that as far as definition, accuracy, natural contrast, the CRT is still the gold standard to beat. The plasmas come close, but in case anyone didn't know, they're being phased out for the still-inferior LCD, which is cheaper to make (and for whatever reason, plasmas never came in sizes smaller than about 40", limiting their uses). LCD is a good idea in theory, but like digital audio--which will never reproduce music as accurately as analog, and the airbag, which still deploys at the sound level of about 160 dB--like sticking your head in a jet engine, thereby loud enough to give anyone serious hearing problems permanently--no one bothered, or will bother, to perfect the LCD. They apparently figured that marketing it ferociously and simply destroying any other option for the consumer was more cost-effective and a better "business strategy." And for the record, people do not replace their TVs every seven years. That's simply preposterous.

that as far as definition, accuracy, natural contrast, the CRT is still the gold standard to beat

not when it comes to cheap crt we are talking about. very few actual high def crts were made. only stuff like the sony super fine pitch could even approach being able to actually render claimed hd resolutions. most of the rest was marketing rubbish with lousy crts putting out hideously grainy "ed" picture. esp the cheap widescreen "hdtv"'s they sold. lcd has come a long way, contrast ratios are up and motion blur is no longer a problem. soon with led backlights color will be very good along with the improved energy efficiency. i think it was crt that was good in theory to be honest. most of the so called superior features/potential of crt were not found in the units people actually bought/had. so lcd from walmart is definitely superior to what they have/had...

plasma don't shrink because they have trouble shrinking the pixels. no point producing a low res plasma;)

and companies are trying to perfect the lcd..i'm not sure what you are talking about. competition in this segment is intense. pictures get ever better, bigger and cheaper. some like sony have gone exclusively lcd and they haven't done that to go low end. stick an old sd crt beside a new lcd 1080p 40+ incher and playback a bluray on it and it won't even be a close race.

and well this is the first self evident reason people have had to upgrade their tv's in a long time. the reign of sd was long. but now its over.

and sure the economy is bad. but that just means people stay at home instead of flying to europe or driving across country. and so they buy a tv:P as for people that get hand me downs, its not significant enough to offset the massive yearly gain in flatpanel sales.

http://www.parksassociates.com/press/press_releases/2005/hdtv-1.html
HDTV sales in the U.S. to grow 71% by 2009

actually a LOT of the LCDs being sold are exactly the cheap "ed" that you were complaining about, and the Sony HDTVs of 4 and 5 years ago beat them AND the "full" HD LCDs in everything but screen-size and numbers sold...I'm keeping my eye out for a medium-sized LCD that's close to the quality of my Sony HDTV, but so far it's only the pricey plasmas (which - as said - are being pushed out of the market by lower-quality LCDs) that compare with CRTs...but we ARE a bit off topic here, aren't we?

I found several no-so-old CRTs on Craig's List at a really good price. I won't be needing to buy a flat panel for many years to come!I know a few people that plan on just replacing their CRT's with used ones for next to nothing from garage sales and the like (preferably larger ones), and just using these boxes with them.

Might as well the way they keep adding subchannels and watering the channels down anyway. :rolleyes:

and sure the economy is bad. but that just means people stay at home instead of flying to europe or driving across country. and so they buy a tv:P as for people that get hand me downs, its not significant enough to offset the massive yearly gain in flatpanel sales. My point is that the abundance of free or almost-free "hand me down" CRTs is what's driving the stronger-than-expected demand for CECBs like the Zenith DTT900. Sales of flat-panel TVs have been very strong, though I think for many mainstream consumers the real "sales appeal" factor is that thin displays are in.

CRTs vary widely in terms of standard-definition PQ accuracy. Many folks obtaining "free" or "almost free" CRTs are accustomed to viewing middling-resolution analog cable or variable-quality (geometrically-challenged, ghost-ridden or snowy) NTSC OTA. Compared to the typical analog cable or analog OTA reception, the OTA PQ received through a Zenith CECB often is noticeably better.

Might as well the way they keep adding subchannels and watering the channels down anyway. :rolleyes: That's the pitiful truth. Too many OTA broadcasters are willing to put out mediocre PQ in order to squeeze additional subchannels out of their bandwidth.

Not too many years back, you would NEVER have seen an OTA broadcaster carry advertisements for cable and satellite companies. As fall approaches, I expect cable and satellite companies will actually produce satire advertising ridiculing the unfamiliar reception problems (arising from the digital "cliff effect") encountered by many non-techie CECB users. Those satire ads will convince some OTA users to switch to cable.

The plasmas come close, but in case anyone didn't know, they're being phased out for the still-inferior LCD, which is cheaper to make (and for whatever reason, plasmas never came in sizes smaller than about 40", limiting their uses).

The former small size limit was 42" - plasma panel manufacturers were only tooled up to make certain sizes.


plasma don't shrink because they have trouble shrinking the pixels. no point producing a low res plasma;)

There is now a 32" plasma HDTV from Vizio. Only available from Wal-Mart currently. When Costco gets it, I think it will be my new TV. Then my CECB will just be to keep my VCR operational.

Agree. While the overall US economy is slowing, the general public seems to be going out of its way to buy a LOT of flat-panel TVs. Particularly telling is the situation at Walmart: three years ago, this "main street" retailer sold almost exclusively CRTs and just a handful of LCD and plasma sets. But since then, Walmart's huge market clout has been a key reason LCD/plasma TV prices have plummeted! Last time I checked, the local (non-SuperCenter) Walmart carried at least 60 different flat-panel sets but only five CRTs.

One curiosity of all this: thrifty folks who need to replace their broken set not only can buy a decent-quality LCD set inexpensively - if they really are cheap, they can find lots of friends and neighbors offering perfectly-functional but "obsolete" standard-def CRTs for free or very cheap prices. This latter phenomenon may actually be what is driving consumer demand for CECBs - folks who obtained a fully-operational free "hand-me-down" six-year-old CRT. For many of those folks, connecting that six-year-old standard def Panasonic, Sharp or Toshiba 27" CRT to a CECB is quite an upgrade over what they are accustomed to.

Checking ebay and craiglist for used 27" Sony Trinitron TVs I found that most people seem to think those sets are almost worth what they paid for them new. Pricing at $150 to $400 for these sets tells me that a lot of folks in the USA haven't got the message that 4 x 3 CRTs are dial phones and 8-track players. They must have missed the WalMart displays of new 32" LCD HDTVs for under $500. In fact, Walmart sells a 27", 4 x 3, CRT with ATSC tuner for under $200. Wake-up America!

Addressing two recently dicussed matters:
[1] my two May 901 CECBs have no powering problems. But sometimes, one might have to hold the "on" button down a fraction of a second longer than a quick press. For those people having problems, this could be the simple solution.
[2] Yeah, the LCD is here to stay. Thanks again to Walmart, people are, as ever, being bullied and hoodwinked about an "improvement" over CRT. If you ask most technicians, they will still say, that as far as definition, accuracy, natural contrast, the CRT is still the gold standard to beat. The plasmas come close, but in case anyone didn't know, they're being phased out for the still-inferior LCD, which is cheaper to make (and for whatever reason, plasmas never came in sizes smaller than about 40", limiting their uses). LCD is a good idea in theory, but like digital audio--which will never reproduce music as accurately as analog, and the airbag, which still deploys at the sound level of about 160 dB--like sticking your head in a jet engine, thereby loud enough to give anyone serious hearing problems permanently--no one bothered, or will bother, to perfect the LCD. They apparently figured that marketing it ferociously and simply destroying any other option for the consumer was more cost-effective and a better "business strategy." And for the record, people do not replace their TVs every seven years. That's simply preposterous.

I think the CEA is correct regarding replacement every 7 years with regard to the main TV that a family watches. That likely is the average and then the main TV goes to the bedroom or the basement or the study or the kid's bedroom or even to the garage. I think their estimate is correct regarding the primary family TV; what they are ignoring are all those older TVs in the home that are still used, more often than not working off OTA signals, and will be junk w/o a converter box.

I for one like the idea that the CE industry finally seems to be settling in on LCD as the TV technology for the this generation. That will only help to perfect that technology in the near future and provide us the best TV experience ever. Remember that these same folks spent over 30 years perfecting the CRT TV and when they were done they reached a size limit that they couldn't overcome. Above 36", a 4 x 3 CRT is far too heavy to be practical for most consumers and even Sony couldn't get a distortion-free CRT display above that size. Anyone who wants to wallow in the past can have my 35" RCA console (1994 model) in the basement for free. Needs some minor repair, which I won't waste the money on, and will take at least 3 strong men to get the over 300 pounds of it out of my basement. Farewell CRTs.

Checking ebay and craiglist for used 27" Sony Trinitron TVs I found that most people seem to think those sets are almost worth what they paid for them new. Pricing at $150 to $400 for these sets tells me that a lot of folks in the USA haven't got the message that 4 x 3 CRTs are dial phones and 8-track players. They must have missed the WalMart displays of new 32" LCD HDTVs for under $500. In fact, Walmart sells a 27", 4 x 3, CRT with ATSC tuner for under $200. Wake-up America! Yes, there are ill-informed people asking $150 to $400 for used CRTs.....I seriously doubt buyers are actually paying that much. You are correct about ultra-cheap ATSC-equipped CRTs as well as the declining cost of 32" High Definition LCD sets.

For the most part, anyone who prefers a CRT over LCD/Plasma will have no problem finding FREE or very cheap CRTs being offered by friends/neighbors or by outfits like PC Recycle. The only thing that's hard to find are High Definition CRTs, most of those users still are holding on to their sets - but just about all Standard Defintion CRTs are as plentiful and cheap on the used market as used VHS players and tapes.

At PC Recycle, the TV owner pays a recycling fee much like anywhere else. PC Recycle sells off the best-condition units (TVs in good working condition) for a whopping $10 to $35. It doesn't make economic sense for a recycling-centric business (which has to pay rent and utilities) to have working-condition CRTs sitting around taking up space in order to wait for "top dollar".

Yes, there are ill-informed people asking $150 to $400 for used CRTs.....I seriously doubt buyers are actually paying that much. You are correct about ultra-cheap ATSC-equipped CRTs as well as the declining cost of 32" High Definition LCD sets.

For the most part, anyone who prefers a CRT over LCD/Plasma will have no problem finding FREE or very cheap CRTs being offered by friends/neighbors or by outfits like PC Recycle. The only thing that's hard to find are High Definition CRTs, most of those users still are holding on to their sets - but just about all Standard Defintion CRTs are as plentiful and cheap on the used market as used VHS players and tapes.

At PC Recycle, the TV owner pays a recycling fee much like anywhere else. PC Recycle sells off the best-condition units (TVs in good working condition) for a whopping $10 to $35. It doesn't make economic sense for a recycling-centric business (which has to pay rent and utilities) to have working-condition CRTs sitting around taking up space in order to wait for "top dollar".

Yeah, 5 years ago we replaced our 27" Sony as our main TV with a Sammy DLP. The Sony went to the master bedroom and the 25" RCA in the master bedroom was donated to a poor couple just starting out. Last XMas we bought a 32" LCD for the bedroom and the 27" Sony went to my mother-in-law to replace her 20" Sony. She never wanted to run cable to her bedroom, so the 20" Sony just sits; at least until I buy her a CECB next month and give her a set-top antenna. Everybody wins!

There is now a 32" plasma HDTV from Vizio. Only available from Wal-Mart currently. When Costco gets it, I think it will be my new TV.

If a 32" plasma became available somewhere else, I'd have a look. Walmart is one of the key players in screwing up the economy, not to mention their treatment of employees, so they will never get a dime from me. And who exactly makes "Vizio"?

As to singing the praises of LCD HDTVs, I am talking less about broadcast, the DTT901's usefulness notwithstanding for SD, so much as much-more-telling DVD performance. I have yet to see a real black level or proper image articulation from any kind of LCD. Contrast ratio specs are cooked: "dynamic contrast ratios" do not interest me, and have no bearing on reality. They only serve to permit ridiculous quotes of "5000:1" when the reality is more like 600:1. For comparison, the average, decent CRT always is about 3000:1 in ordinary "static" contrast ratio. And prices for the smallest 19" (16x9) LCD HDTVs that start at $400 are pretty scandalous for most people. I'll wait until--and if--they correct things to the point where black levels, true contrast ratios, and image acccuracy reflect the CRT and prices come down to where good CRTs were at the end of their long evolution.

Sorry if this is far afield.

Checking ebay and craiglist for used 27" Sony Trinitron TVs I found that most people seem to think those sets are almost worth what they paid for them new. Pricing at $150 to $400 for these sets tells me that a lot of folks in the USA haven't got the message that 4 x 3 CRTs are dial phones and 8-track players. They must have missed the WalMart displays of new 32" LCD HDTVs for under $500. In fact, Walmart sells a 27", 4 x 3, CRT with ATSC tuner for under $200. Wake-up America!

i think they are just trolling for sucker buys or aren't really serious about selling
i've seen older lcds being sold for absurd amounts as well. the sellers just taking a chance or has no clue how fast the rapidly evolving market has made their display worthless.

actually a LOT of the LCDs being sold are exactly the cheap "ed" that you were complaining about, and the Sony HDTVs of 4 and 5 years ago beat them AND the "full" HD LCDs in everything but screen-size and numbers sold...I'm keeping my eye out for a medium-sized LCD that's close to the quality of my Sony HDTV, but so far it's only the pricey plasmas (which - as said - are being pushed out of the market by lower-quality LCDs) that compare with CRTs...but we ARE a bit off topic here, aren't we?

coulda said that a year or two ago. not now. a 720p tv is a 720p tv for lcd these days. even the low standard is good and the detail will be there assuming you feed it a good source. as for sony, yea super high end super fine dot pitch sonys perhaps. but they cost several times more when they came out.

The former small size limit was 42" - plasma panel manufacturers were only tooled up to make certain sizes.



There is now a 32" plasma HDTV from Vizio. Only available from Wal-Mart currently. When Costco gets it, I think it will be my new TV. Then my CECB will just be to keep my VCR operational.

hm, i think it more than they weren't tooled up. i think it was a technical issue as well. perhaps now with 1080p plasma they can sacrifice a bit of res to make a 32".


As to singing the praises of LCD HDTVs, I am talking less about broadcast, the DTT901's usefulness notwithstanding for SD, so much as much-more-telling DVD performance. I have yet to see a real black level or proper image articulation from any kind of LCD. Contrast ratio specs are cooked: "dynamic contrast ratios" do not interest me, and have no bearing on reality. They only serve to permit ridiculous quotes of "5000:1" when the reality is more like 600:1. For comparison, the average, decent CRT always is about 3000:1 in ordinary "static" contrast ratio. And prices for the smallest 19" (16x9) LCD HDTVs that start at $400 are pretty scandalous for most people. I'll wait until--and if--they correct things to the point where black levels, true contrast ratios, and image acccuracy reflect the CRT and prices come down to where good CRTs were at the end of their long evolution.

Sorry if this is far afield.

even with slightly lower contrast the 3x the resolution with 720p still wins in reality. as for lcd prices, yes below a certain point the bang for buck gets silly. the sweet spot is higher. 19" lcd are for suckers really. the decrease in screen area is not matched by an equivalent decrease in price. that being said 19" lcd tv can be found at walmart for 260 dollars actually

I already tested the Zenith DTT900 versus Dish DTVpal. Although both received 4 stations, the DTVpal had lots of macroblocking on the weak channels so there was effectively only 1 watchable station. 4 stations versus only 1.

Here are my results with Zenith DTT900 versus the Channel Master CM7000:

- Rabbit Ears = 4 stations versus 5 stations.

- CM4228 = 8 stations versus 13 stations.

- Amplified settop antenna = Same number of stations for both boxes (5), but the Zenith experienced breakups, whereas the CM7000 was a solid 99-100 the whole time. No freezing or macroblocking.

IMHO the CM7000 is the better box, with the ability to display stations as low as 10 on the strength bar. At 10 the picture sometimes "smears" like a water-color painting, but at 20 it looks near-perfect. I was able to watch an entire episode of Cold Case from Philadelphia 50 miles away and it hovered between 15-40 on the strength bar. It appears the CM7000 has better error-correction.

There is now a 32" plasma HDTV from Vizio. Only available from Wal-Mart currently. When Costco gets it, I think it will be my new TV. Then my CECB will just be to keep my VCR operational.I was looking at it at the WM here, and it seems to be a little lacking in the detail resolution department.

I was considering getting one too, but I had second thoughts upon closer inspection. The same feed showed more detail on a lot of the other panels there (720p/768p and higher), so I know it wasn't the source. Maybe it could still be calibrated a little better, though. Other than that, it didn't look bad.

And who exactly makes "Vizio"?The guts are LG.

Please elaborate. How does a store selling goods for low prices ruin a whole continent's economy?

I don't agree but this is the way some people feel about Walmart:

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart

As fall approaches, I expect cable and satellite companies will actually produce satire advertising ridiculing the unfamiliar reception problems (arising from the digital "cliff effect") encountered by many non-techie CECB users. Those satire ads will convince some OTA users to switch to cable.

Already here. In the last week, I have seen Comcast ads on TV that explain Comcast cable is better because it delivers programming with "no wind or rain-fade." Hmmm, what transmission method do you suppose they are referring to when they say "wind and rain-fade?"

Hmmm, what transmission method do you suppose they are referring to when they say "wind and rain-fade?" Dish.

Dish.

Oh. I didn't know Dish reception also suffered from the elements. I guess Comcast cable "killed two stones with one bird" (sic) with that line in the ad, then!

Already here. In the last week, I have seen Comcast ads on TV that explain Comcast cable is better because it delivers programming with "no wind or rain-fade." Hmmm, what transmission method do you suppose they are referring to when they say "wind and rain-fade?"

Interesting.

Then how can they explain the pixilation on some channels in Pelham, NH?

Paul

Just about every TV public service announcement for the Digital TV Transition uses an LG/Zenith/Insignia converter box in the ad, with the brand name concealed.

I fully expect that when Saturday Night Live's new season comes on, they'll present a satire on those ads showing the maddening reception problems reported by some users. Can you see it now: the ad showing "digital TV is in the air", the families seeing their picture turn to total snow, then getting the converter box, only to be plagued with "now you see it, now you don't" reception. NBC execs will probably be very embarrassed when they get a bunch of critical e-mails about the satire, though the sad thing is the SNL skit will largely be based on real-world user experiences!

Overall, LG's boxes (Zenith/Insignia) are fairly competent but the ATSC transmission system may be frustratingly inconsistent for non-tech-oriented Americans who are accustomed to simply turning on their TV to watch OTA programs such as Dr. Phil, Oprah Winfrey, Judge Mathis....and, of course, Saturday Night Live!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrrrrroger
Please elaborate. How does a store selling goods for low prices ruin a whole continent's economy?


I don't agree but this is the way some people feel about Walmart:

http://www.jibjab.com/originals/big_box_mart

OFF TOPIC: All the discounters (WalMart, Costco, Target) get their products from the same companies, distributors, and places. WalMart has the best prices because they have the most clout with those distributors (saw examples of this again last Monday when I stopped at Target for a few items instead of WalMart; Target was at least a few cents higher or more than WalMart on all of my routine purchase items).

The reason WalMart takes the heat is because they are the 800 pound gorilla and because they are subject to a multi-million dollar, union, national, campaign to defame them because they have been successful in keeping their operations non-union. Since most folks don't think that being non-union is a bad thing, WalMart continues to prosper in our sagging economy.

ON TOPIC: WalMart is pretty much selling the bottom end stuff of the big names in HDTV. But, this is America; you buy what you can afford. Some of their big name cheap HDTVs are actually quite a good buy for the money (e.g., Samsung 32" LCD HDTVs).

ON TOPIC: WalMart is pretty much selling the bottom end stuff of the big names in HDTV. But, this is America; you buy what you can afford. Some of their big name cheap HDTVs are actually quite a good buy for the money (e.g., Samsung 32" LCD HDTVs). It's quite possible that LG/Zenith made a bid to supply CECBs for Walmart. One can just imagine the intense negotiations between LG's reps and the Walmart buyers over pricing....

In spite of not being sold at Walmart, the Zenith DTT-900 has apparently been the best-selling CECB so far.

Walmart's always carried Magnavox and RCA electronics - that's why they carry those boxes.

They already have a "working arrangement" with them.

I don't recall ever seeing an LG product there.

Walmart's always carried Magnavox and RCA electronics - that's why they carry those boxes.

They already have a "working arrangement" with them.

I don't recall ever seeing an LG product there. Zenith is probably too "high end" for them, anyway.:) True, Walmart has had long-term vendor relationships with Funai/Magnavox and Thomson/RCA. These vendors already were accustomed to "doing what it takes" to meet Walmart's demanding standards.

One thing I will praise Walmart for: no-hassle returns. I bought Magnavox and RCA CECBs (full price without the coupons) and returned them to Walmart without problem. Their courtesy was much appreciated.

Actually, the one here does match up the UPC code on the box with the one on the receipt.

Seen today at Circuit City in Tukwila, Washington: The prominent end-shelf display next to the DVD recorders and DVD/VCR combos featured a stack of about DTT900s. All were April 2008 builds. No DTT901s. This is the same end shelf where the Tukwila Circuit City has displayed their CECBs since March.

In a less-conspicuous area over by the LCD TVs, on a bottom shelf: about 40 DTT901s. No signage or pricing information.

Actually, the one here does match up the UPC code on the box with the one on the receipt. Yes, I noticed that as well.

I just cant see Hi Scan CRTs having very good video processing, especially since Sony wont and dont outsource it, prefering in house solutions. Additionally, many have convergence and geometry problems, and finicky cathode ray tubes as they were pushed for higher resolution and bigger flatter screens. Furthermore, many have limited inputs.

Higher constrast and deeper blacks, yes. Along with smaller lower resolution screens masking video anomalies, as well as interlacing at 1080i leaves much to be desired.

Syntax Brillian and Vizio are American owned companies, many Olevias were even assembled in the USA. Too bad S-B Olevia didnt seem to make it. Lets hope Vizio continues with its American success.

In spite of not being sold at Walmart, the Zenith DTT-900 has apparently been the best-selling CECB so far.

When we follow Zenith DTT900 and (lately) DTT901 serial numbers (they start over at the beginning of each month with a new year/month code and a sequential number reset to 100001) it becomes clear that more than 500K Zenith branded converter boxes are being produced each month. Add to that the Insignia production that resumed with the analog pass through model. These LG models clearly lead the CECB industry in production, perhaps 70-75% (or more) of the market. (This is just a guess.)

I just cant see Hi Scan CRTs having very good video processing, especially since Sony wont and dont outsource it, prefering in house solutions. Additionally, many have convergence and geometry problems, and finicky cathode ray tubes as they were pushed for higher resolution and bigger flatter screens. Furthermore, many have limited inputs.

Higher contrast and deeper blacks, yes. Along with smaller lower resolution screens masking video anomalies, as well as interlacing at 1080i leaves much to be desired.

Syntax Brillian and Vizio are American owned companies, many Olevias were even assembled in the USA. Too bad S-B Olevia didnt seem to make it. Lets hope Vizio continues with its American success.

Somewhat off-topic. You certainly hit the right marks. Flat-screen CRTs have ridiculous color convergence and screen geometry distortions. I know because I spent hours correcting crappy-but-within-factory-spec adjustments in these areas, insofar as was possible. These were smaller-screen Samsungs from a few years back. Their overall factory adjustment on every score was so insanely irresponsible that I had to rework everything, from convergence to contrast to color balance and saturation just to get them to look normal. That anyone without tech experience would keep one of those things was a marvel to me. Why would a major company even put something out there that looked preposterous out of the box?! At the same time, since my radical re-adjustments, these CRTs look superb. And I really do respond to good contrast, articulation, and dense black levels. That said, above about 20", most CRTs are dead in the water. So plasma seems like a good bet now that we have anamorphic widescreen DVDs which must get shrunk to the size of an envelope on a CRT. Does anyone but Walmart carry the $528 32-inch Vizio (LG) plasma (I ask probably too late, now that, after a lot of comings-and-goings, I finally have a pair of decent DTT901s)? I'm still very unimpressed by any LCD I have seen.

Its brother the Insignia 32" Plasma was just released using the same LG panel and electronics. It drops the IR removal tool, but includes aspect ratio control on HD sources, and a more robust remote.

Older HD CRTs have inferior older video processing solutions.

Which universal remotes have been successfully adapted to work with the DTT900?

Which universal remotes have been successfully adapted to work with the DTT900?

I use Philips universal and learning remotes. I have a four device PM435S (under $7) and a six device PMDVD6 learning remote ($9.74 when on sale at Fred Meyer). There are twelve pages of codes and code search on both, and learning capabilities on the six device model. The code for the DTT900/901 (and probably the Insignia) is 0267. There is no "-" button on these remotes but the additional subchannels may easily be tuned by the channel up/down button or from the box that appears when the main (X-1) channel is tuned. The six device model learned the "-" command from the original Zenith remote. The four device remote has large enough buttons (a total of 45), but many of the six device learning remote's buttons (a total of 51) are much smaller.

My older RCA universal remote, a RCR460, doesn't seem to have the right code even after doing a code search.

I've been looking for the PM435S and PMDVD since you first wrote about them but haven't seen one yet although the web says my local circuit city has a PM435S for $20. I've seen some other Philips models and been tempted to try those as there are no Fred Meyers here. Sears for $12 has beenout of stock forever...all their Philips remotes rack have been empty except the expensive ones.

I've been looking for the PM435S and PMDVD since you first wrote about them but haven't seen one yet although the web says my local circuit city has a PM435S for $20. I've seen some other Philips models and been tempted to try those as there are no Fred Meyers here. Sears for $12 has beenout of stock forever...all their Philips remotes rack have been empty except the expensive ones.

These are older models without the "-" button that may soon be replaced with later models that have that button. The Fred Meyer stores (mostly in the Pacific Northwest) are part of the Kroger chain. The last time I was at Freddies the PMDVD6 was being sold at the regular price of $17.99 but on sale it's only $9.74. The PM435S was being sold for the regular price of $12.99 but on sale it's under $7.00. Philips is a very common brand.

The Zenith remote requires very little button pushing. I have never once had to use the "-" to get to a sub-channel with the Zenith remote. I just enter the first number of the virtual channel I want to go to, a menu pops up with all the options and I navigate to the one I want via the arrow buttons. If I want the first listed channel, I don't have to do anything at all - it automagically goes there. I can't see that the "-" is needed at all. Maybe I'm missing something.

I can't see that the "-" is needed at all. Maybe I'm missing something.It's definitely needed by units that control the box via an IR blaster (like a TiVo). They can't see the pop-up menu like you can. :)

I had some good DX-ing this morning, and found out what the zenith does with two channels with the same virtual number. It keeps both.

local 27-1, and 27-2 are on real channel 40
distant 27-1 was coming in on real channel 50

My channel list shows:
19-2
27-1
27-1
27-2

At my guidance, my Dad purchased two DTT-900s with his $40 coupons. Both were February 2008 builds. One of his DTT900 CECBs developed a strange tuning malfunction a couple of months ago. This was a strange issue, possibly caused by a station transmitting a nonconforming signal, causing the tuner to randomly flip through channels and subchannels.

We contacted LG/Zenith customer service and arranged to ship back his DTT900 for repairs. They sent the DHL shipping materials to my Dad - interestingly, they only wanted the box (not the remote, cables or anything else). Weeks went by without getting the DTT-900 back.

My Dad finally called LG/Zenith customer service. They were extremely friendly and helpful, though not real sure why it had taken five weeks for fixing his box. To make a long story short, they indicated his box was being shipped that day. Upon arrival, LG/Zenith actually shipped my Dad a brand-new June 2008 DTT-901. We hooked it up this morning and it works great!

While my Dad was disappointed at the lengthy six week turnaround time that his CECB was presumably being "repaired", he was surprised and pleased to receive a brand-new box. I tried to explain that he actually has a somewhat better box than the "original" DTT-900, particularly with APT. Being unfamiliar with how to use the APT feature, I wasn't able to confirm it in operation. His bedroom TV, a six-year-old 27-inch Sharp CRT, has never looked better running local broadcast channels.

Keep in mind we contacted LG/Zenith just before the expiry of the 90-day labor warranty. It's uncertain whether they would provide much help for DTT900 owners after then, since labor is likely to quickly be more expensive than simply replacing a defective CECB.

Being unfamiliar with how to use the APT feature, I wasn't able to confirm it in operation.

All you do is turn the 901 off. (red light) Then scan thru the channels with your regular TV remote.

Remember to set the TV back to channel 3 (or 4) when you turn the unit on. (blue light)

All you do is turn the 901 off. (red light) Then scan thru the channels with your regular TV remote.

Remember to set the TV back to channel 3 (or 4) when you turn the unit on. (blue light) I just realized the APT feature only works if the CECB is connected via the RF inputs. I connected Dad's DTT901 via composite.

I just realized the APT feature only works if the CECB is connected via the RF inputs. I connected Dad's DTT901 via composite.

You do realize the 901 (and the 900) output both RF and composite at the same time ? So as long as you have an RF cable from the CECB to the TV, you can have your choice of RF or Composite for digital viewing and still have the analog pass-thru once you turn the unit off.

Hmm, I just noticed on my 901 the composite picture is much lighter than the RF picture (the composite picture looks more like analog in brightness and contrast, while the RF picture is darker and sharper). On my 900 (Insignia) they were almost identical in output.

At my guidance, my Dad purchased two DTT-900s with his $40 coupons. Both were February 2008 builds. One of his DTT900 CECBs developed a strange tuning malfunction a couple of months ago. This was a strange issue, possibly caused by a station transmitting a nonconforming signal, causing the tuner to randomly flip through channels and subchannels.

We contacted LG/Zenith customer service and arranged to ship back his DTT900 for repairs. They sent the DHL shipping materials to my Dad - interestingly, they only wanted the box (not the remote, cables or anything else). Weeks went by without getting the DTT-900 back.

My Dad finally called LG/Zenith customer service. They were extremely friendly and helpful, though not real sure why it had taken five weeks for fixing his box. To make a long story short, they indicated his box was being shipped that day. Upon arrival, LG/Zenith actually shipped my Dad a brand-new June 2008 DTT-901. We hooked it up this morning and it works great!

While my Dad was disappointed at the lengthy six week turnaround time that his CECB was presumably being "repaired", he was surprised and pleased to receive a brand-new box. I tried to explain that he actually has a somewhat better box than the "original" DTT-900, particularly with APT. Being unfamiliar with how to use the APT feature, I wasn't able to confirm it in operation. His bedroom TV, a six-year-old 27-inch Sharp CRT, has never looked better running local broadcast channels.

Keep in mind we contacted LG/Zenith just before the expiry of the 90-day labor warranty. It's uncertain whether they would provide much help for DTT900 owners after then, since labor is likely to quickly be more expensive than simply replacing a defective CECB.

ah kewl:)
i've had the same weeks long wait, usually rma's from other companies don't take long. they just ship a refurb right back the moment they confirm the defective box has arrived. this has taken 5 or so weeks, its coming monday because dhl came around when i was not home on friday:( heh
hope its a 901 like you!

You do realize the 901 (and the 900) output both RF and composite at the same time ? So as long as you have an RF cable from the CECB to the TV, you can have your choice of RF or Composite for digital viewing and still have the analog pass-thru once you turn the unit off.

Hmm, I just noticed on my 901 the composite picture is much lighter than the RF picture (the composite picture looks more like analog in brightness and contrast, while the RF picture is darker and sharper). On my 900 (Insignia) they were almost identical in output. Thank you for these tips.

ah kewl:)
i've had the same weeks long wait, usually rma's from other companies don't take long. they just ship a refurb right back the moment they confirm the defective box has arrived. this has taken 5 or so weeks, its coming monday because dhl came around when i was not home on friday:( heh
hope its a 901 like you! Crossing fingers for you!

The Zenith remote requires very little button pushing. I have never once had to use the "-" to get to a sub-channel with the Zenith remote. I just enter the first number of the virtual channel I want to go to, a menu pops up with all the options and I navigate to the one I want via the arrow buttons. If I want the first listed channel, I don't have to do anything at all - it automatically goes there. I can't see that the "-" is needed at all. Maybe I'm missing something. Using the Zenith-supplied remote, I also haven't had to use the "-" to reach a subchannel. I do wish LG would have provided a somewhat larger remote, similar in size to the remotes for LG televisions. The "-" will probably be needed to tune subchannels with most non-LG universal remotes.

I compared my Dish DTVpal versus Zenith 900 yesterday (using rooftop antenna). Zenith tuned 8 stations. DTVpal tuned 14 stations! Impressive. However.....

- The DTVpal fell on its face when I used a set-top antenna.
Only got 2 stations. I think the DTVpal is more sensitive to
weak signals, but it fails to handle multipath as well as Zenith does (5).

Crossing fingers for you!

:)
it was a 901!!:)

I finally got around to buy a converter, the Zenith DTT901. It installed and set up easily.

I note one problem. On our Channel 7, whose transmitter is only about 7 miles away, signal strength keeps going from Good to Bad, and when it's low audio drops out and in extreme cases the picture freezes with pixilation.
Momentary, but an annoyance.

After a while (if the box is left on) the problem seems to lessen. I'm only using the small of rabbit-ear antennas that came with this 13-inch set, which doubtless is at least part of the problem.

Should I just leave the converter on all the time?

Don't I remember talk of a web page that tells how many channels are typically received for a broadcast ares?

I'm interested in Detroit (just over the northern border), for which I receive 16 channels (2, 4, 7, 20, 38, 50, 56, 62 and various sub-channels for each) with a tiny rabbit ears.

How much more of an antenna would I need to pick up a PBS station in Flint, which is maybe 45 miles away?

Don't I remember talk of a web page that tells how many channels are typically received for a broadcast ares?

I'm interested in Detroit (just over the northern border), for which I receive 16 channels (2, 4, 7, 20, 38, 50, 56, 62 and various sub-channels for each) with a tiny rabbit ears.

How much more of an antenna would I need to pick up a PBS station in Flint, which is maybe 45 miles away? Check out TV Fool (http://www.tvfool.com), type in your street address or directional coordinates to get a fairly accurate idea of which ATSC channels (and NTSC channels) can be received at your location. In your case, you'll also want the list of NTSC channels since Canadian analogs will continue broadcasting through 2011.

When you say "just over the northern border", does this mean you live in Indiana or does it mean you live in Windsor - where someone leaving Canada and going to the U.S. actually has to drive north towards the Detroit port of entry?

Enjoy your Zenith CECB, and check out EV's Best Indoor Antenna thread on the main forum for aerial ideas.

I finally got around to buy a converter, the Zenith DTT901. It installed and set up easily.

I note one problem. On our Channel 7, whose transmitter is only about 7 miles away, signal strength keeps going from Good to Bad, and when it's low audio drops out and in extreme cases the picture freezes with pixilation.
Momentary, but an annoyance.

After a while (if the box is left on) the problem seems to lessen. I'm only using the small of rabbit-ear antennas that came with this 13-inch set, which doubtless is at least part of the problem.

Should I just leave the converter on all the time? You may need to experiment with antenna placement for "Channel 7", or try out a different antenna. What is the real RF channel for that station? Sometimes those signal strength fluctuations are the byproduct of intermittent multipath conditions.

You shouldn't need to leave a DTT901 turned on all the time.

...

Should I just leave the converter on all the time?

Leaving the DTT901 on all of the time is OK. It runs cool. Good thermal design.
Just turn it off when you want analog Pass Through. Mine is hooked up to TiVo and is on continuously.

Leaving the DTT901 on all of the time is OK. It runs cool. Good thermal design.
Just turn it off when you want analog Pass Through. Mine is hooked up to TiVo and is on continuously. The DTT900 and DTT901 definitely run cool and exhibit proper thermal design.

Leaving the DTT901 on all of the time is OK. It runs cool. Good thermal design.
Just turn it off when you want analog Pass Through. Mine is hooked up to TiVo and is on continuously.

I think that shall be my solution to the IR remote not responding after the unit has been off for a while. I physically swapped my two units room to room, and the problem stayed with the room. Somethign in my teensy bedroom is causing havok with the IR. I haven't much in my room, and I one by one unplugged everything, and the unit still takes several presses of the IR remote power button before it will turn on from a "cold" start. If I take that remote and unit into the other bedroom, the problem does not manifest itself. So, this thing takes, what, 4 watts or 9 watts or something? I don't like wasting any electricity, but I guess I could live with leaving it on.

I finally got around to buy a converter, the Zenith DTT901. It installed and set up easily.

I note one problem. On our Channel 7, whose transmitter is only about 7 miles away, signal strength keeps going from Good to Bad, and when it's low audio drops out and in extreme cases the picture freezes with pixilation.
Momentary, but an annoyance.

After a while (if the box is left on) the problem seems to lessen. I'm only using the small of rabbit-ear antennas that came with this 13-inch set, which doubtless is at least part of the problem.

Should I just leave the converter on all the time?
Your problem with channel 7 may be because of a weak signal. I have a similar problem with a station which has implemented their digital signal on low power and won't increase the power for a few more months. You might call someone at channel 7 (or check their website) to see if they are transmitting their digital signal on low power. Depending on what you learn you will know whether or not you have an issue with your antenna. I hope you will enjoy your 901.

I think that shall be my solution to the IR remote not responding after the unit has been off for a while. I physically swapped my two units room to room, and the problem stayed with the room. Something in my teensy bedroom is causing havok with the IR. I haven't much in my room, and I one by one unplugged everything, and the unit still takes several presses of the IR remote power button before it will turn on from a "cold" start. If I take that remote and unit into the other bedroom, the problem does not manifest itself. So, this thing takes, what, 4 watts or 9 watts or something? I don't like wasting any electricity, but I guess I could live with leaving it on.

I had a similar problem. Found out it was the fluorescent lights in the room that were causing the IR interference.

...
I note one problem. On our Channel 7, whose transmitter is only about 7 miles away, signal strength keeps going from Good to Bad, and when it's low audio drops out and in extreme cases the picture freezes with pixilation.
Momentary, but an annoyance.
...

There are three things that I see as possible causes:
- weak signal
- poor location
- multipath

First, though, run your exact location through TVFool. The better your coordinates, the better your results.

Second, understand that the CECB meter is not a "signal strength" meter, but more like an error rate meter, since the latter is more important to digital reception.

Weak signal
Ch 7 could be running at low power. TVFool will tell you a rated power, and that can be misleading because
- power limit is set by the FCC based on propagation, and higher frequency propagate worse, so you can't compare Ch 7 and Ch 47; the latter needs more radiated power to reach the same coverage area
- digital power is more of an RMS value than the peak power quoted for analog, so at equivalent coverage area, digital will always be much lower
... and the station may not be at full power.

Poor location
TVFool combines local topo data with propagation models to estimate the lowest signal you'll see. If you live in a hole (as I do), 7 miles can result in the need for an "outdoor" antenna - I get misery from simple indoor antennas that's not unlike what you report. You can do this two ways
- look at the TVFool report for a signal value (Rx dBm)
- look for TVFool's coverage map for the station. It's a Google Earth terrain map with color coded signal strength iso-lines. If you know where you live, it's easy to see if you're on a hill or in a hole.

Multipath
DTV is very sensitive to signals with time delay due to reflections (and the added propagation distance that results). In analog, they're seen as ghosts. The only option, besides fine tuning antenna position, is to get a directional antenna that has reduced gain away from the aiming direction.

Thus, both weak signal and multipath may benefit from an antenna upgrade, and the analysis TVFool provides will tell you what is the best way to go.

In the event TVFool doesn't speak your language, post the plot here and we'll help with interpretation.

Have fun,
Frank

The article Activity Picks Up As Feb. 17 Gets Closer (http://www.twice.com/blog/170000217/post/510030851.html?q=Activity+Picks+Up+As+Feb%2E+17+Gets+Closer) states that 1 million Zenith "TV set-top converter boxes" (http://www.zenith.com/dtv/) have been manufactured and shipped.

I had a similar problem. Found out it was the fluorescent lights in the room that were causing the IR interference.

Were they compact fluorescent's, or straight tube? I have two CF's in the room. I'll try replacing them one by one with incan. But, strange that the other room, in which the units do not act up, has two CF's also. Perhaps various brands/designs of CF's emit more interference than others. I will post my test results here soon.

Were they compact fluorescent's, or straight tube?

They were compact fluorescents. It seemed to be worst when first turned on, and then the IR interference got less as they warmed up. Not sure why.

They were compact fluorescents. It seemed to be worst when first turned on, and then the IR interference got less as they warmed up. Not sure why.

Yes, another potential problem/limitation of CFLs, yet the Government has legislated a ban on all incandescent light bulbs to be effective in just a few years. This ban was implemented without sufficient education of Congress and the Public regarding the known problems and limitations of CFLs and without sufficient testing and public input regarding previously unknown problems and limitations (e.g., trouble with using your DTV converter box).

End of rant!

... known problems and limitations of CFLs ...

One scary aspect is when they catch fire. I had one CF smoke, and when I took the lamp outside and plugged it in to see what would eventually happen, the CF sparked crazily. It might have caught a lamp shade on fire, if one had been there. I cannot imagine what would have happened if left unattended inside a home.

Sorry for the thread hijack.

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/national_world/stories/2008/05/01/bulb.html?sid=101

Close relative reported to me that their DTT900's blue light no longer works. All other display and tuning functions tune normally. Anything to be concerned about?

Yes, another potential problem/limitation of CFLs, yet the Government has legislated a ban on all incandescent light bulbs to be effective in just a few years. This ban was implemented without sufficient education of Congress and the Public regarding the known problems and limitations of CFLs and without sufficient testing and public input regarding previously unknown problems and limitations (e.g., trouble with using your DTV converter box).

End of rant!

Our 6 CFL '65 watt BR30' reflector bulbs in ceiling cans have not, as yet, interfered with our TiVo IR Blaster and Zenith DTT901. There has been daylight. I need to run this test after dark.

I did need to replace the wall switch for these ceiling lamps with a 'heavy duty' switch because the original switch popped (sparked) with the 'power up' surge.

I wonder if there is a forum for CFLs? I have not found any source of combined technical and practical knowledge about CFLs.

Close relative reported to me that their DTT900's blue light no longer works. All other display and tuning functions tune normally. Anything to be concerned about?

As long as the other functions are normal, I wouldn't worry. In fact, the loss of that light sounds like a bit of an improvement. : )

Close relative reported to me that their DTT900's blue light no longer works. All other display and tuning functions tune normally. Anything to be concerned about?

If it were still under the vendor's return policy, I'd say consider replacing it before the next bit of it fails. Or, if they haven't requested a second coupon, get one while they are available and buy a second CECB as insurance.

They were compact fluorescents. It seemed to be worst when first turned on, and then the IR interference got less as they warmed up. Not sure why.

I replaced both CF's in my room with incan, and after several tries and even leaving the unit off overnight and turning it on this morning, it turned on every time. So it really is pointing toward the CF's as the cause. I need to switch back and forth a few times before I am 100% sure. I have four possible solutions, but need more input from you guys.

1) Leave converter box on all the time while using CF's.
2) Use incan bulbs until no longer available, and turn converter box off.

Between 1 & 2, it's a total crap shoot as to which would consume less electricity over time: Leave converter off and blast away with a 100 watt room light as needed, or leave a 7 watt box on 24/7 and use a more miserly CF bulb in the room, as needed.

Is the interference from a CF IR or RF? Which leads me to my last two choices:

3) If the interference is RF, I could try different brands of CF. As with any device which emits RF, some emit more than others.

4) If the interference is IR emitted from the CF, I could place a mask inside my ceiling light globe in a small area to prevent direct light from striking the IR receiver in the converter box.

One thing that does not make sense to me, whether the interference is IR or RF, is why it seems that the light does not need to actually be on when I have difficulty with the IR remote... it just needs to have been on at some point since I turned the box on last. Also, why would interference from the CF cause the IR remote to not respond for several tries, then suddenly work, and then work every time thereafter until the unit is tirned off for a spell. It seems almost as if the IR receiver is experiencing a cumulative effect, like it is "soaking" in the interference and causes the IR receiver to have a "surface charge" which causes it to be "blind" to the remote IR commands. Just thinking...

A while back, I saw a web page that showed updated status of the coupon distribution. I forgot the website, inquired here, and was provided this link by a member's response:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/status.html

However, it appears the last update was April 21. As I recall, the website I saw had daily updates, and also showed how many coupons had been issued but had expired without being used, etc. Does anybody know where this page is? Thanks.

I replaced both CF's in my room with incan, and after several tries and even leaving the unit off overnight and turning it on this morning, it turned on every time. So it really is pointing toward the CF's as the cause. I need to switch back and forth a few times before I am 100% sure. I have four possible solutions, but need more input from you guys.

Hmm, I have a Sylvania 100watt equivalent CF in the room with the 901 and about 7 feet from it. So far, I havent noticed any interference. My guess is that the CF's youre using are either defective or poorly designed.

I do have my computer 2 feet from the TV. I have noticed that when the computer starts, the signal strength drops.

Turbo, here is the new link to that page:

https://www.dtv2009.gov/Stats.aspx


I like this one, too -- it shows stats by the week of coupon issue - how many issued, redeemed, expired unused, redemption in 30 day increments, and also stats for OTA-only households. Link is "weekly redemption reports" on this page:

https://www.ntiadtv.gov/coupon_stats.cfm

In the days of only NTSC, the signal level coming from the antenna was of primary importance. Now, with ATSC, both the signal level and signal quality seem equally important, witness the fact that a preamp at the antenna does not seem to help a poor digital signal except for the cable loss or a poor tuner.

When I press the signal button on the remote control for my DTT900 and the signal bar appears on the screen, what exactly are the chips in the box measuring: signal level only, BER (bit error rate), MER (modulation error ratio), or some combination of them?

Is this the best thread to post this question?

The Zinwell ZAT displays both quality (bit-error rate?) and intensity (strength of signal). I wish all boxes provided dual bars like that.

What's MER?

"The modulation error ratio is a measure used to quantify the performance of a digital radio transmitter or receiver..... A signal sent by an ideal transmitter or received by a receiver would have all constellation points precisely at the ideal locations, however various imperfections in the implementation (such as noise, low image rejection ratio, phase noise, carrier suppression, distortion, etc.) or signal path cause the actual constellation points to deviate from the ideal locations." - wikipedia

I just purchased a DTT 901 and installed it and I live in the L.A. area. There are many OTA channels I am not receiving, i.e. CBS, ABC, FOX, PBS, and a couple of local channels. When checking the signal strength for the channels I do get, it is always 50% or less and the station(s) very often scrambles and/or freezes.

I about 5 miles from the towers (Mt Wilson to Pasadena) and live in a 3-story apt building (I'm on the second floor) and a rooftop anntena is not an option. Admittedly, I am not at tech savvy as many of the posters on this forum and I have read through quite a few questions/comments for an answer and I'm wondering if there is something I should be trying. Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions.

BTW, I purchased my units from my local Circuit City and they said when these are sold out they are not getting any additional stock (and other retailers in the area are selling out as well).

I about 5 miles from the towers (Mt Wilson to Pasadena) and live in a 3-story apt building (I'm on the second floor) and a rooftop anntena is not an option. Admittedly, I am not at tech savvy as many of the posters on this forum and I have read through quite a few questions/comments for an answer and I'm wondering if there is something I should be trying. Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions.

BTW, I purchased my units from my local Circuit City and they said when these are sold out they are not getting any additional stock (and other retailers in the area are selling out as well).

Have you experimented changing the antenna orientation? Does your antenna have the circular or rectangular UHF loop or just rabbit ears? Have you tried rescanning the channels?

Perhaps there is a signal overload or a multipath situation that's confusing the Zenith.

Try an unfolded standard sized paperclip instead of your antenna to compare your results.

I'm about the same distance (five miles) line-of-sight from the antenna farms along Skyline Blvd. in Portland Oregon. I get the same channels, mostly with very nearly the same signal strength with a Paper Clip Antenna as I get with two "normal" indoor antennas, a RCA ANT111 and a Philips SDV2270/17; and the Paper Clip Antenna costs but $2.99 for a box of 1,000 antennas at Staples (but one must unfold the Paper Clip Antenna before use). Your results may vary.

Your Zenith may have a problem. If that is the case exchange it within thirty days or before your Circuit City goes out of business, whichever is sooner.

I about 5 miles from the towers (Mt Wilson to Pasadena) and live in a 3-story apt building (I'm on the second floor) and a rooftop anntena is not an option. Get a CM4228 and mount it near a window aiming towards the towers. The CM4228 will definitely pull-in your signals. -or-

Buy limited-service cable for $15 a month.

The Zinwell ZAT displays both quality (bit-error rate?) and intensity (strength of signal). I wish all boxes provided dual bars like that.

Thanks for telling me about the Zinwell double bars. I downloaded the manual for the 970A and couldn't find a picture of the bars but then noticed on page 6 under Manual Scan: "the indicator below will show the signal intensity and quality on this setting."

I agree with you: It would be helpful if all boxes showed intensity AND quality.
The quality is probably BER.

How the Brits do it:
www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/settop.html

What's happening in these pictures is that the amplifier boosted the noise levels very high, but the data can still not be extracted. In analog you would see lots of white noise with a visible image (watchable quality), but in digital the computer goes "huh?" and gives up. You get a blank screen.

I wonder how well a set-top antenna would perform if mounted on the roof? Probably "good" in quality... better than having it inside.

No Amp - http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/ssnamp.jpg
Amp - http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/ss2amp.jpg

What's happening in these pictures is that the amplifier boosted the noise levels very high, but the data can still not be extracted. In analog you would see lots of white noise with a visible image (watchable quality), but in digital the computer goes "huh?" and gives up. You get a blank screen.

I wonder how well a set-top antenna would perform if mounted on the roof? Probably "good" in quality... better than having it inside.

No Amp - http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/ssnamp.jpg
Amp - http://www.megalithia.com/elect/aerialsite/ss2amp.jpg

That is one noisy amp. You wouldn't get that kind of problem with a CM7775 or CM7777 pre-amp where the noise level is very low. I know that the Zenith 900 doesn't have any problem with the CM7777 amplified output from my attic antenna and I suspect all of this generation's ATSC tuners will do as well. I'm using this same pre-amp'd signal on four different generations of ATSC tuners and the new Zenith is clearly superior. While my oldest and cheapest tuner, a Dish ViP211, still gets signal quality in the high 70s to mid-90s for all of my local broadcasters (all about 10 miles out and within the beam-width of my UHF antenna), the Zenith actually max'd out all of those stations. I added a 6 dB attenuator to the Zenith's input just to get the signal off of max.

Most folks who get undesirable outcomes with pre-amps are using noisy Rat Shack pre-amps (see the article in "An HDTV Primer" regarding pre-amp noise). Others are over-boasting their signal and need to go to less amplification. Rule-of-thumb, if you can receive the signal, but you are low on the signal meter, don't go to a 26 dB pre-amp; 8 dB or 10 dB will probably give you all the boast you need without overload. If you can't lock most of your local channels, then try a CM7777 or get a much larger antenna, or both. Some early generation ATSC tuners had so much trouble with multi-path that any amplification only made things worst. The current generation of ATSC tuners seem to have pretty much solved the multi-path problems, albeit at the expense of long range, low signal sensitivity in some cases.

BTW, before attaching a feed from my attic antenna distribution to the Zenith, I tried set-top UHF/VHF antenna with an On/Off, variable gain amplifier. This antenna, in reality was only 8 feet lower in elevation than my attic antenna. I never got more than 2/3rds of my channels with this setup and each channel required either a gain adjustment or turning off the gain. No setup was good for all of channels I could get much less good for the other third of missing channels. All I'm using in the attic is a simple 50" Winegard PR-9018 with a CM7775.

Bottom line, I don't subscribe to the AVS Forum myth that pre-amps won't help you unless you have over a 60 foot coax run. I know better because I have personal experience that contradicts that myth. You just need the right setup for a particular situation and that often takes a trial and error effort.

When I press the signal button on the remote control for my DTT900 and the signal bar appears on the screen, what exactly are the chips in the box measuring: signal level only, BER (bit error rate), MER (modulation error ratio), or some combination of them? I had been under the impression that the DTT900 signal bar depicts a combination of all of these, but I don't have the technical knowledge to state this with certainty. Could a tech-savvy writer speak to this?

That is one noisy amp. You wouldn't get that kind of problem with a CM7775 or CM7777 pre-amp where the noise level is very low. Yeah but I doubt even a CM7777 amp could make that tiny Silver Sensor produce a clean signal. Like the author said, an amplifier can't create an image if it is already buried in the noise.

Why would anyone buy any box other than the Zenith. It is the only one with the LG tuner chip, which is the chip you want.Back in January when CECBs weren't yet available for purchase, this was a common sentiment. The original LG/Zenith DTT900 did have a few shortcomings which users at this forum exposed. The public dialog about those shortcomings did lead to some engineering changes beginning in April 2008, ironically in some cases involving substitution of a non-LG tuner chip.

Back in January when CECBs weren't yet available for purchase, this was a common sentiment. The original LG/Zenith DTT900 did have a few shortcomings which users at this forum exposed. The public dialog about those shortcomings did lead to some engineering changes beginning in April 2008, ironically in some cases involving substitution of a non-LG tuner chip.

A trifle confused here. Wasn't it the earlier, audio-troubled DTT900 units that often had (rather good) Sanyo tuners; and with the coming of the April 2008, the mostly corrected DTT900, these Sanyos became rare, and then in the completely corrected DTT901, the Sanyo tuner (and chip, I'd gather) fell into total disuse, the LG tuner universal? So what do you mean that engineering changes beginning in April 2008 meant the substitution of something for the LG chip in some cases when the reverse seems to be the case?

You sir, are correct & not confused. Unfortunately, misinformation abounds within this sub forum.

A trifle confused here. Wasn't it the earlier, audio-troubled DTT900 units that often had (rather good) Sanyo tuners; and with the coming of the April 2008, the mostly corrected DTT900, these Sanyos became rare, and then in the completely corrected DTT901, the Sanyo tuner (and chip, I'd gather) fell into total disuse, the LG tuner universal? So what do you mean that engineering changes beginning in April 2008 meant the substitution of something for the LG chip in some cases when the reverse seems to be the case?

It wasn't that the Sanyo fell into disuse with the 901 -- the Sanyo was not FCC tested for use with the 901. The 900 had FCC approval to use either a Sanyo or LG tuner. The 901 FCC application was for an LG tuner, a different model than used in the 900. The early 900 production runs were entirely Sanyo, as far as I know.

Some people say the Sanyo was a bit more sensitive, but it may be individual variance. I get the same channels with my 900 and 901, and when I had them together for comparison I was looking for differences in sound.

IMHO, the belief that the Sanyo tuners in the Zenith CECBs were somehow superior to the LG tuners is urban legend since it hasn't been reliably documented anywhere outside this sub-forum of AVS and even here without much scientific rigor.

IMHO, the belief that the Sanyo tuners in the Zenith CECBs were somehow superior to the LG tuners is urban legend since it hasn't been reliably documented anywhere outside this sub-forum of AVS and even here without much scientific rigor.

Maybe so, but my 2 900's with LG tuners have problems with weaker stations while my 900 with the Sanyo tuner doesn't.
In my humble opinion, the LG's are junk at my location. YMMV

Maybe so, but my 2 900's with LG tuners have problems with weaker stations while my 900 with the Sanyo tuner doesn't. In my humble opinion, the LG's are junk at my location. YMMV

Of course, that doesn't address the fact that the tuner in the 901 is not the same as the LG tuner in the 900. I had all of them at one time or another, and while it did seem that the 900 LG tuner was tricky with weak signals and antenna placement and the Sanyo was less so, the 901 LG tuner seems as forgiving as the 900's Sanyo. It also has a less edgy look than either version of the 900.

O K boys,,I have 2, z dtt 901 ,all is good ?,same on two (dif),wired,,T Vs,,,BUT,,,, I lost 11 of 15 very good channels,,from Analog,to digital,,not good,,,,T V FOOL thinks I should get 50 stations,,???,,,,I 'm in fairfield ct.06824,, w/ a 50 + mi antenna on the roof,160 ft. above sea level,,,and a R SHACK 8 db amp,( that works very good w/ both,,poor w/ out)...would a CM7777,,,help,,,get the stations back,,or what would ? I'm using the rca cables,,,I get no signal,or poor,,,on the rest..can you lock on full screen ? or do we have to play all the time...what box is better,,and,to get back the range ? or to lock in on channels...thx