http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/2/7/8/LG_Zenith_DTT900.jpg

Zenith DTT900 Digital TV Tuner Features, Spec Sheet & Quick Start Guide
http://www.zenith.com/dtv/dtt900.html

Zenith DTT900 Performance Report *(first known hands-on Review)
by John Shutt: WKAR TV-23, DT-55 (PBS) East Lansing, MI
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13047439#post13047439

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon14.gif First Tests Of The Zenith Converter Box
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13196355#post13196355
User Review by Bob Diaz, LA, Calif.

EnergyStar.Gov lists 2 new revised LG Converter Boxes with Analog Pass Through & lower Power Consumption
- LG: Zenith DTT901: On Mode: 3.9W, Sleep: 0.5W
- LG: Insignia NS-DXA1-APT: On Mode: 3.9W, Sleep: 0.5W
http://energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/DTAs_prod_list.pdf
Posted by AVS member Smoke_signal on 4/11/2008

Screen Shots [three zoom (aspect) modes for the Zenith DTT900; also "channel list"]
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13252117&#post13252117
More Screen Grabs From The Zenith [Menus, Signal Strength, Program Info, Program Guide]
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13233193#post13233193
Photos & text by Bob Diaz, LA, Calif.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/icons/icon4.gif Zenith DTT900 DTV Converter, >>> NUDE <<< [a look inside the Zenith converter]
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13252117&#post13252117
Hi-Res photos of the circuit boards, chips and other internal components
Photos & text by Bob Diaz, LA, Calif.

30 hi-res photos of the DTT900 completely dissected! :eek:
nuxx.net's Photo Gallery: Zenith DTT900
http://www.nuxx.net/gallery/v/acquired_stuff/zenith_dtt900/

Comments answering question, "Would this [Zenith] be a good DX tuner?"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13195868#post13195868
Posted by DrBri99, Afton, VA

LG's Zenith-branded DTT900 converter box gets pictured
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/14/lgs-zenith-branded-dtt900-converter-box-gets-pictured/

LG Zenith DTT900 converter
http://www.slashgear.com/lg-zenith-dtt900-converter-148509.php#entrycontent

LG touts first converter box approved for 2008 digital changeover
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/08/lg-touts-first-converter-box-approved-for-2008-digital-changeove/

LG readies $60 digital TV converters for 2008 release
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/21/lg-readies-60-digital-tv-converters-for-2008-release/

CES Preview 2008: LG's Zenith DTT900 Converter Competes with RCA for Grandma's $40 Coupon
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/ces-preview-2008/lgs-zenith-dtt900-converter-competes-with-rca-for-grandmas-40-coupon-322560.php

Retailers Answer DTV Converter Call
Cable Digital News: December 12, 2007
http://www.lightreading.com/blog.asp?blog_sectionid=419&doc_id=141266&site=cdn

Availability: February/March 2008

Industry Competition:

:cool: List of Converter Box Retailers & Approved CECB's with Links to Specs, Pics
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Retailers.html

RCA DTA800 Digital to Analog TV Converter Box
http://www.keepmytv.com/

RCA DTA800: AVS Thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=934600

Info, Features & Specs for the DigitalSTREAM D2A1D10 [SDTV-SX300]
http://www.dstreamtech.com/english/product/product_detail.asp?idx=29

MicroProse MPI-500
ATSC Digital Television Receiver
http://www.microprosesystems.com/dtv.htm

Sansonic FT300A
http://www.sansonic.net/consumer/atsc_converter.asp

MaxMedia DTVB Converter Box MMDTVB03
aka: MaxMedia ATSC Box (Stingray)
http://maxmedia-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=27

MicroTuner MT2131
Microtune's 3-in-1 Tuner Featured in DTV Converter Box Certified by NTIA
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=121862&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1087155&highlight

The following is the list of approved CECBs:
- for updatess see: https://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm

- AMTC AT-2016
- AccessHD DTA1010U
- AccessHD DTA1010D
- AccessHD DTA1020D
- AccessHD DTA1020U
- Apex DT1002
- Apex DT1001
- Artec T3A
- Artec T3APro
- CASTi CAX-01
- Channel Master CM-7000
- COSHIP N9900T
- Digital Stream DSP7500T
- Digital Stream DSP6500R
- DigitalSTREAM D2A1D20
- DigitalSTREAM D2A1D10
- DigitalSTREAM DTX9900
- ECHOSTAR TR-40*
- GE 22730 [without Smart Digital Antenna interface; Jasco branded]
- GE 22729 [with Smart Digital Antenna interface; Jasco branded]
- Goodmind DTA1000
- Goodmind DTA900
- Goodmind DTA980
- Gridlink GLT-200
- Gridlink GLT-300
- Insignia NS-DXA1 [apparently identical to Zenith DTT900; sold by BB; made by LG]
- Kingbox K8V8
- Lasonic LTR-260
- Lasonic LTA-260
- Magnavox TB100MW9
- Magnavox TB-100MG9*
- MaxMedia MMDTVB03
- MicroGEM MG2000
- Microprose MPI-500
- Mustek MAT-K50
- OLEVIA DTA100
- Philco TB150HH9*
- Philco TB100HH9*
- RCA DTA 800A
- RCA DTA 800B
- RCA DTA800B1
- Sansonic FT300A
- Sansonic FT300RT
- Skardin DTR-0727
- SVA DAC100
- Synergy Global Supply SYN2009
- TATUNG TDB3000
- Tivax STB-T9
- Tunbow Electronics E60010
- VENTURER STB7766G
- Zinwell ZAT-756A
- ZINWELL ZAT-856
- Zinwell ZAT-857
- ZINWELL ZAT-970
- Zenith DTT900
- Zentech DF2000

* These models are capable of passing through an analog signal to the TV set.

Avio

Some of their comments are hilarious, the links are a good read at least.

Some of their comments are hilarious, the links are a good read at least.Speaking of hilarious...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41ZiYD1VPaL._SS400_.jpghttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/416XmfN0pPL._SS400_.jpg

This 2 slice toaster shares the model number: DTT900

http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-DTT900-Esclusivo-2-Slice-Aluminum/dp/B0002XGKCW/

It looks like it has a retractable antenna! :D :eek: :D

Avio

I wonder if this uses LG's sixth-generation 8-VSB chip.

I wonder if this uses LG's sixth-generation 8-VSB chip.

Having SmartAntenna technology would be more effective for achieving the best performance.

Ernie

And who has a SmartAntenna? Who'll know how or where to buy one? Will it be easy to mount indoors, or wherever the current antenna may be? How much more $$$$ will the SmartAntenna cost? Who will understand what it's all about? Will anybody be convinced it's worth anything?

The point is, the digital transition in itself will bend the minds of the average American OTA viewer. I don't think they'll want to bend their minds more learning about a "smart antenna"; they'll just want the box to work with what they've got. A sixth-gen 8-VSB chip will help a lot more people in this regard than a SmartAntenna connector or a fifth-gen chip combined.

And who has a SmartAntenna? Who'll know how or where to buy one? Will it be easy to mount indoors, or wherever the current antenna may be? How much more $$$$ will the SmartAntenna cost? Who will understand what it's all about? Will anybody be convinced it's worth anything?

The point is, the digital transition in itself will bend the minds of the average American OTA viewer. I don't think they'll want to bend their minds more learning about a "smart antenna"; they'll just want the box to work with what they've got. A sixth-gen 8-VSB chip will help a lot more people in this regard than a SmartAntenna connector or a fifth-gen chip combined.SmartAntenna is discussed in the RCA thread cited below:

RCA DTA800 Digital to Analog TV Converter Box
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=934600

Avio

EnergyStar.gov
Digital-to-Analog Converter Boxes (DTAs) Qualified Product List
List Current as of October 31, 2007

Company Name | Brand Name | Model | Date Available

LG Electronics Zenith LSX300-4DM 12/1/07
LG Electronics Insignia NS-DXA1 12/1/07
LG Electronics Zenith DTT900 12/1/07
Falcon Digital Falcon FT-200 1/1/08
Falcon Digital Sansonic FT-300A 1/1/08
Falcon Digital Sansonic FT-300RT 1/1/08

Google's HTML version of .XLS file:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:1J7EMHyGD4kJ:www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/DTAs_prod_list.xls

EnergyStar.gov MS Excel .XLS file:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/DTAs_prod_list.xls

Avio

Seriously, there are going to be a demand at the end of 2008/early 2009 for these things down in SE Arkansas from the rural-elderly crowd. Even though the area I live in has high D* and E* penetration many OTA antennas still stand, and nearly all are VHF/UHF combos or older VHF-only antennas. And these are not those in houses with the "tar paper" shacks or trailer parks, but generally socially conservative folk that often fear the "Internet" and "Cable TV" content.

EnergyStar.gov
Digital-to-Analog Converter Boxes (DTAs) Qualified Product List
List Current as of October 31, 2007

Company Name | Brand Name | Model | Date Available

LG Electronics Zenith LSX300-4DM 12/1/07
LG Electronics Insignia NS-DXA1 12/1/07
LG Electronics Zenith DTT900 12/1/07
Falcon Digital Falcon FT-200 1/1/08
Falcon Digital Sansonic FT-300A 1/1/08
Falcon Digital Sansonic FT-300RT 1/1/08What's the difference between the LSX300-4DM and DTT900? Will the Insignia version have functionally identical remotes and menus (I can understand slight cosmetic differences)? And why's the RCA DTA800 not on the list?

SmartAntenna is discussed in the RCA thread cited below:

RCA DTA800 Digital to Analog TV Converter Box
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=934600Now how to get that info to Americans? And again, who's going to want or care about mounting brand new antenna equipment, or understanding how it works, when the box can work fine with what they've already got (unless their current antenna doesn't support UHF)?

What's the difference between the LSX300-4DM and DTT900? Will the Insignia version have functionally identical remotes and menus (I can understand slight cosmetic differences)? And why's the RCA DTA800 not on the list?

Now how to get that info to Americans? And again, who's going to want or care about mounting brand new antenna equipment, or understanding how it works, when the box can work fine with what they've already got (unless their current antenna doesn't support UHF)?All good questions... I don't have the answers. Let's stay tuned and see.

Avio

Another product I don't need.

If anyone sees a news story about LG coming out with a full over-the-air HD tuner using their 6th generation chip, please post a new thread ASAP.

IB

They said long ago that they weren't. Only in TV's.

NTIA Approves Philips’ [& other] Boxes
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6510069.html

NTIA approved the following according to the Twice.com article:

- Magnavox TB100MW9

- Philco TB150HH9

- DigitalSTREAM D2A1D10 [SDTV-SX300]

- DigitalSTREAM D2A1D20

Info, Features & Specs for the DigitalSTREAM D2A1D10 [SDTV-SX300]
http://www.dstreamtech.com/english/product/product_detail.asp?idx=29

Avio

They said long ago that they weren't. Only in TV's.

That was years ago and they said it because construction costs were high. With the forced phase out of analog, and construction prices way down because you can put more circuits on one chip, they might have a change of plan.

IB

Retailers Answer DTV Converter Call
Cable Digital News: December 12, 2007
http://www.lightreading.com/blog.asp?blog_sectionid=419&doc_id=141266&site=cdn

http://img.lightreading.com/2007/12/141266/2091.jpg

Avio

I guess the smarmy tone should be expected from Cable News.
But, uhh, I don't need your stinking cable to get HDTV, and, frankly, the box and an old analog TV will probably be near as good as your bit-starved offerings.

Retailers Answer DTV Converter Call
Cable Digital News: December 12, 2007
http://www.lightreading.com/blog.asp?blog_sectionid=419&doc_id=141266&site=cdn
Avio

So how does one "request" a digital converter box coupon? It says you can request one starting January 1st. That is just a few days away. Can you do it on-line? Is there a URL set up already for this?

IB

There is supposed to be a site "www.dtv2009.gov" , but it is not up yet. There will also be an 800 number setup for people to request them.

You know I think I will get one. The Zenith box will have LG's 6th generation tuner in it, so I can use it as a back-up for times when my built-in HDTV tuner in my big screen TV does not work. I guess with the 40 buck discount, and the boxes selling for 60 bucks, it will cost only 20 bucks. Is that correct? Are all the brands of boxes going to cost the same?

IB

One thing about the converter boxes I've seen so far, they are plain old ugly little things, the only converter that actually looks good is the Microprose unit.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=96579&stc=1&d=1197586468

You know I think I will get one. The Zenith box will have LG's 6th generation tuner in it, so I can use it as a back-up for times when my built-in HDTV tuner in my big screen TV does not work. I guess with the 40 buck discount, and the boxes selling for 60 bucks, it will cost only 20 bucks. Is that correct? Are all the brands of boxes going to cost the same?

IB

Edit: Check out the rules for the coupons, esp. Appendix 2 for Disqualifying features:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/DTVmanufacturers.pdf

Component video, DVI & HDMI are DISQUALIFYING FEATURES. Therefore if these boxes have been certified for the NTIA $40 coupon, they CANNOT possess any HD output. Oh well.

Looks like we have to hope for a "penumbra" effect where the cost of SDTV standalone tuners plummets due to tremendous demand. Then the much tinier market for HDTV standalone tuners benefits from the reduced cost of the components and hopefully these HDTV tuners will be offered more cheaply than they are now due to economies of scale on the supply side (though the demand side is small).

Is there proof that any of them do HD output? I read the specs for some & I know some of these only have S-video or composite output (depending on the brand), in addition to RF out.

To be eligible for the coupon rebate, they are FORBIDDEN to. (I imagine they have to prove they DON'T to the government to get certified.) The government is subsidizing people with old analog tvs, not HDTVs.

You want a standalone HDTV capable ATSC tuner ? - Pay up, full price, whatever you can find. As stated above - these converter boxes are FORBIDDEN to have any HDTV outputs (HDMI, DVI, component, TOSLINK, Digital Coax audio) whatsoever. The primary purpose is to allow the old analog TVs to receive the ATSC signals, and to that end, all they need for outputs are RF modulator, s-video, composite video, and at least 1 set RCA analog audio output jacks.

I assume they will connect via S-video or antenna inputs on your TV. For $20 it is a good deal as a back-up unit. I already have full HDTV built into my set, but the tuner chip I have is probably only 3rd generation. It works most of the time, but not all of the time. With a cheap back-up at least I will get a picture and never miss a show, even if it's not HDTV. I would pay $200. for a LG 6th generation full HDTV receiver today, but there are none available and I don't want one of those crappy little computer devices.

IB

I got a Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC HDTV tuner - 5th generation or so - before I got my HDTV. The Sammy works pretty good for a 16:9 HDTV, not so great for 4:3 TVs. See this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392 for more info.

I got a Samsung DTB-H260F ATSC HDTV tuner - 5th generation or so - before I got my HDTV. The Sammy works pretty good for a 16:9 HDTV, not so great for 4:3 TVs. See this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=728392 for more info.

SD is not the Sammy's main goal, that is why.

Samsung has a 6th generation chip out, so I assume they may sell a new full HDTV tuner soon using that new chip. I might buy that if it gets good reviews. I am on the first floor of a 4 story building with a metal roof, and I am surrounded by trees and other buildings. I need the best tuner I can get.

IB

One thing about the converter boxes I've seen so far, they are plain old ugly little things, the only converter that actually looks good is the Microprose unit.I added a link to the Micro Prose MPI-500 to the first page of this thread under the "Industry Competition" section. It claims NTIA certification and coupon eligibility.

MicroProse MPI-500
ATSC Digital Television Receiver (claims NTIA certification and coupon eligibility)
http://www.microprosesystems.com/dtv.htm

It's seems to me that the looks of a little black converter box is rather insignificant, compared to features and performance of the box. Personally, I don't find this model better looking than the Zenith or RCA models.

Avio

It's seems to me that the looks of a little black converter box is rather insignificant, compared to features and performance of the box. Personally, I don't find this model better looking than the Zenith or RCA models.

Avio

Why would anyone buy any box other than the Zenith. It is the only one with the LG tuner chip, which is the chip you want.

IB

Why would anyone buy any box other than the Zenith. It is the only one with the LG tuner chip, which is the chip you want.

IB

A very small market for these boxes would be the TV/FM DX community. Unlike an integrated tuner/TV and/or DVD these boxes allow one to "roll tape" and archive DX while scanning or changing channels.

I'm considering the LG/Zenith box for the hamshack to replace an older USD (Hisense) box and *not* requesting a coupon (those coupons should go to those that need them).

Actually not true, LG's chip is going to be in the RCA box, Microprose box, Samsung box and I think also the Philco & Sanyo boxes as well. Broadcom is claiming to have a chip and I don't know what powers the Digital Stream box.

LG is going to make a huge fortune off of this transition with selling its own unit and making a bundle from licensing its chip to 5-6 other manufacturers.

Actually not true, LG's chip is going to be in the RCA box, Microprose box, Samsung box

Are you sure? Do you have a link for this info? Samsung makes it's own tuner chips, as does RCA. Why would they buy a LG chip? Is this an admission that their own chips, which they have been putting in their own TVs, are inferior?

IB

I've spoken with a contact in the testing labs and he directly indicated them most of the boxes coming in for testing and review are using what they are calling "The LG Solution" and most are using the exact same chip, just with their own front-end GUI's.

Its not so much any admission of their own products being inferior, its a matter of economies, the way these boxes are built and the ultra-low costing imposed on them, most firms are not investing R&D for a low end, extremely razor thin margin for a product line with a lifespan of 14 months in total.

Its easier just to put a common chip into their boxes. No one says their product is inferior because their using Samsung memory chips or an Intel chip or the like. Remember - LG is the primary patent holder of the ATSC technology, so it makes sense to work with the patent and technology holder.

Sounds like slim evidence to me. I would say if you want an LG chip, buy the Zenith.

IB

PS The rules say the $40. coupon expires 3 months after issue. But the Zenith converter box is not yet in stores? Should we wait till Circuit City and Walmart advertise the converter boxes for sale?

IB

Wait until you have your coupons in hand and the stores have them in stock

Wait until you have your coupons in hand and the stores have them in stock

The point is what if you apply for a coupon January 1st and receive it January 10th, and it expires in 3 months in March and the Zenith box does not hit stores until May?

IB

The point is what if you apply for a coupon January 1st and receive it January 10th, and it expires in 3 months in March and the Zenith box does not hit stores until May?

IB

According to NTIA, you are SOL. Wait until you see them in the stores before you get your coupons.

The point is what if you apply for a coupon January 1st and receive it January 10th, and it expires in 3 months in March and the Zenith box does not hit stores until May?

IB

First, the coupons will not be released until February 17, 2008 and they allow for mail delivery. Second, they will not give you the coupons until there is a store "nearby" that has the boxes. Third, if all of these tuners use the LG 6th gen technology, no worries. It certainly appears many of them wil be 6th gen tuners.

First, the coupons will not be released until February 17, 2007 and they allow for mail delivery. Second, they will not give you the coupons until there is a store "nearby" that has the boxes. Third, if all of these tuners use the LG 6th gen technology, no worries. It certainly appears many of them wil be 6th gen tuners.

Well, I hope the Zenith will be out by May. I only want the Zenith. Then you know you got the right chip and that they know how to use it properly.

IB

First, the coupons will not be released until February 17, 2007...

Shoot, looks like we all missed the boat...

I assume they will connect via S-video or antenna inputs on your TV. For $20 it is a good deal as a back-up unit. I already have full HDTV built into my set, but the tuner chip I have is probably only 3rd generation. It works most of the time, but not all of the time. With a cheap back-up at least I will get a picture and never miss a show, even if it's not HDTV.

The funny/sad fact is that a number of folks will get the box and think they're getting HD. :rolleyes::o:(:eek:

I think the box with have the lowest cost chip that meets the specification, not necessarily the latest/best chip. So I wouldn't count on it being able to lock onto a signal any better than last year's ATSC-capable TVs.

I think the box with have the lowest cost chip that meets the specification, not necessarily the latest/best chip. So I wouldn't count on it being able to lock onto a signal any better than last year's ATSC-capable TVs.

Right. That is why I say stick with the Zenith, because then you know your getting the best chip possible. I am going to apply January 1st and expect and hope the Zenith to be ready by the time the coupons expire.

IB

... if all of these tuners use the LG 6th gen technology, no worries. It certainly appears many of them wil be 6th gen tuners.

I think the box with have the lowest cost chip that meets the specification, not necessarily the latest/best chip. So I wouldn't count on it being able to lock onto a signal any better than last year's ATSC-capable TVs.It would seem the only two ways of knowing for certain which chip is used in each box are: 1) Open up the box (if not factory sealed) and using a magnifying glass write down the text and numbers on the chip. 2) Find a professional review that determines from inside sources which chip is used.

Avio

I thought there had to be some kind of income eligibility established to get these coupons. No?

It would seem the only two ways of knowing for certain which chip is used in each box are: 1) Open up the box (if not factory sealed) and using a magnifying glass write down the text and numbers on the chip. 2) Find a professional review that determines from inside sources which chip is used.

AvioI'm sure someone around here will have one of these things in hand and opened up within a day or two after they come out. ;)

I thought there had to be some kind of income eligibility established to get these coupons. No?

No - anyone until the first pot of money is empty, then OTA only users for the 2nd pot. No income levels set. :D

I thought there had to be some kind of income eligibility established to get these coupons. No?I've studied much of the available info on the topic and have not seen anything about income eligibility.

Avio

... anyone until the first pot of money is empty, then OTA only users for the 2nd pot. ... My understanding is that both pots of money are for anyone who has an Analog TV, gets their programing Over-the-Air and does not subscribe to either Cable or Satellite.

For example, I have one HDTV, 2 old Analog TVs and get all my programs OTA using antennas. I do not subscibe to Cable or Satellite. I believe I qualify for two coupons.

Avio

That was the original intention, but the FCC / NTIA realized that the cable / DBS verification would be almost impossible to verify for everyone. So, every household is eligible for 2 $40 coupons out of the first $900 or so million, then they will try to figure out some way for the remaining.

That was the original intention, but the FCC / NTIA realized that the cable / DBS verification would be almost impossible to verify for everyone. So, every household is eligible for 2 $40 coupons out of the first $900 or so million, then they will try to figure out some way for the remaining.Scooper: Thanks for the clarification. :)

I reviewed the NTIA web sources and found the point you are making:



Starting Jan. 1, 2008, all U.S. households will be eligible to request up to two $40 coupons to be used toward the purchase of up to two, digital-to-analog converter boxes, while the initial $990 million allocated for the program is available.

If the initial funds are used up, the Act permits funding to increase by $510 million, upon certification to Congress that the initial allocated amount is insufficient to fulfill coupon requests. If the additional funds are needed, eligibility for those coupons will be limited exclusively to over-the-air-only television households. Consumers requesting coupons from these contingent funds must self-certify to NTIA that they do not subscribe to cable, satellite or other pay television services. This program is structured to monitor demand to help ensure that over-the-air reliant households will not lose total access to television broadcasts after the Feb. 17, 2009, transition date.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/2007/DTVfinalrule_031207.htm

Avio

Not a problem - just trying to clarify the issue so "We" the experts are all singing from the same page when Joe Sixpack asks us about these.

MONSTERS FROM THE ID!

http://www.miamiherald.com/business/technology/story/347894.html

Posted on Mon, Dec. 17, 2007

Nation prepares for shift to digital TV

By ROB HOTAKAINEN

In little over a year, more than 20 million homes that rely on antennas for free analog television broadcasting will suddenly go dark. And Sen. Claire McCaskill is already getting nervous.
"There is no anger that comes close to the anger of an American that cannot get television," said the Missouri Democrat.

The federal government is gearing up for Feb. 17, 2009, the day when TV stations will stop broadcasting analog signals, which means that those old rabbit ears and rooftop antennas will no longer work with analog TV sets.
Consumers then will have three options: They can buy new TV sets with digital tuners. They can connect to cable, satellite or pay television services. Or they can buy converter boxes for $60 to $70 that will allow them to receive digital broadcasts with their old analog TVs.
It's a long way off, but Uncle Sam wants you to start planning now.

To prepare for the change, Congress has signed off on a new $1.5 billion subsidy program aimed at making sure the nation's couch potatoes continue to get their viewing needs met. Come January, each U.S. household can apply for two $40 coupons to help buy the converter boxes.
Some members of Congress suggest buying a new TV as a holiday gift for that digitally-out-of-touch special someone in your life.

It's a huge undertaking for the Commerce Department's National Telecommunications and Information Administration, which is preparing to distribute 33.5 million coupons. They'll start mailing them on Feb. 17, 2008, a year before the transition. Washington is eager to spread the message to the elderly and poor people in rural states, who are most likely to be affected.

In 2005, Congress passed the Digital Television Transition and Public Safety Act Congress, which mandated the switch from analog to digital. After two years of planning, federal officials say they're ready.
"The TV Converter Box Coupon Program is on schedule and will be ready to take consumers' coupon requests starting January 1, 2008, as directed by Congress," Acting NTIA Administrator Meredith Attwell Baker said at a news conference in Washington last week.

So far, eight of the largest consumer electronics retailers - Best Buy, Circuit City, Kmart, RadioShack, Sam's Club, Sears, Target and Wal-Mart - have been certified to participate in the "TV Converter Box Coupon Program," along with more than 100 other retailers. They represent more than 14,000 stores throughout the country.

Like most everything on Capitol Hill, the program is kicking up a controversy.
A report released on Tuesday by the Government Accountability Office criticized the government's efforts, saying that there's "no comprehensive plan or strategy" for the digital transition and that a majority of Americans have no idea what's coming.

The report cited two recent surveys: The first, conducted by the Association for Public Television Stations, found in September that 51 percent of participants surveyed were unaware that the transition was taking place. The second, which focused on households that primarily receive their television signals over the air and therefore would be most affected by the change, found that 57 percent were unfamiliar with the transition.

The GAO report prompted an immediate rebuke from Massachusetts Democratic Rep. Edward Markey, the chairman of the House Subcommittee on Telecommunications and the Internet.
Unless a comprehensive plan is put into place, Markey said, "tens of millions of consumers could be adversely affected and this important transition put needlessly in jeopardy."

Members of Congress have been sounding the alarm during public hearings at the Capitol.

Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., expressed fears that "there's a high potential for a train wreck here." Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, worried that many of her constituents along the U.S.-Mexico border would be "looking at a snowy screen" because Mexican stations will continue analog broadcasting.

On the bright side, Sen. Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, the chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, said that Americans can expect sharper pictures, crisper sounds and more channels after the transition. But he said he wants to make sure that the government spreads the word to hard-to-reach audiences on a regional basis, not just by relying on a national advertising campaign. "What works in Houston may not work in Honolulu," he said.
Federal officials say they're ready to go with a massive effort that'll include advertising at national events such as the Super Bowl and regional messages aimed at specific media markets. But they say that so far, the media has shown only modest interest in running stories about the upcoming coupon program, and they fear that their message will be even harder to deliver as crunch time comes in late 2008, right as Americans prepare to elect a president.

"I am really worried about this," said McCaskill, who estimates that one of every five Missourians is relying on analog broadcasting.
"Frankly, this scares me politically," she said, adding that it's members of Congress - not federal employees - who'll get blamed if things go wrong: "They're going to call me, and they're going to be mad."

CONVERTER BOX COUPONS

On Jan. 1, households can begin to take advantage of the TV Converter Box Coupon Program. Its aim is to help consumers buy converters that will allow them to use analog television sets to view digital programming.
Between Jan. 1, 2008, and March 31, 2009, households will be able to request coupons while supplies last in one of four ways:

-Apply online at www.dtv2009.gov. This Web site will be active on Jan. 1.

-Call the Coupon Program 24-hour hotline 1-888-DTV-2009 (1-888-388-2009), TTY 1-877-530-2634

-Mail a coupon application to: P.O. BOX 2000, Portland, OR 97208-2000
-Fax a coupon application to 1-877-DTV-4ME2 (1-877-388-4632)

So far, Best Buy, Circuit City, Kmart, RadioShack, Sam's Club, Sears, Target, Wal-Mart have been certified to participate in the TV Converter Box Coupon Program, along with more than 100 other retailers. There are no income guidelines for eligibility.

The government will begin distributing coupons on Feb. 17, 2008, one year before the transition takes effect.
Source: U.S. Department of Commerce, National Telecommunications and Information Administration

For answers to more of your questions, go to:
http://www.dtv.gov/consumercorner.html#faq1

Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, worried that many of her constituents along the U.S.-Mexico border would be "looking at a snowy screen" because Mexican stations will continue analog broadcasting.

"snowy screen" would have been a better quote if she was referring to Canadian stations.

Seriously, Sen. Hutchison sounds like she doesn't have a clue.

Another Coupon Eligible Converter Box (CECB):

Sansonic FT300A
http://www.sansonic.net/consumer/atsc_converter.asp

http://www.sansonic.net/consumer/images/atscconverter_front.jpghttp://www.sansonic.net/consumer/images/atscconverter_rear.jpg

Avio

I wonder if this uses LG's sixth-generation 8-VSB chip.This LG April 2007 Press Release suggests that they will use the 6th-Gen Chipset in converter boxes:

Press Release
LG Electronics USA, Inc.

Release date: April 17, 2007

LG Electronics Launches Sixth-Generation ATSC Digital TV Broadcast Receiver Chipset
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/516849

... Digital-to-analog converter boxes planned for introduction next year (for analog TVs to continue to receive free, over-the-air broadcasts after Feb. 17, 2009, when all U.S. broadcasting is digital) also will benefit from the low- cost, high-performance chipset. ...
Avio

Another Coupon Eligible Converter Box (CECB):

Sansonic FT300A
http://www.sansonic.net/consumer/atsc_converter.asp

Avio

Thanks for the link. I e-mailed them and asked them what brand of tuner chip they used. I also suggested that they make and sell a full HD tuner using the LG chip. With so many companies pumping out these cheap low resolution boxes, can't one company make a full HD tuner using the LG chip? For Pete's sake!

IB

... With so many companies pumping out these cheap low resolution boxes, can't one company make a full HD tuner using the LG chip? For Pete's sake!I noticed that Digital Stream offers 4 different models of HDTV STB's. I don't know if they are any good.

Check out this link (scroll down the webpage to see the HD models):

Digital Stream HDTV STB's
http://www.dstreamtech.com/english/product/product_list.asp?prtdvn=PRT0030001

Avio

I noticed that Digital Stream offers 4 different models of HDTV STB's.

Odd that they offer so many models. Seems pointless. One would think one coupon box and one HDMI box would be sufficient.

I noticed that Digital Stream offers 4 different models of HDTV STB's.

http://www.dstreamtech.com/english/product/product_list.asp?prtdvn=PRT0030001

Avio

This one says "Enjoy HD Digital TV with low cast" Do you think they mean *low cost*?

http://www.dstreamtech.com/english/product/product_detail.asp?idx=28

PS Has anyone heard of this company before today? Should you buy a product from a no-name company? Can you even buy them in the USA now?

IB

I'm not going to be looking for brand so much as "Are they available ?" - My feeling is that the performance on all of them will be pretty similar. Minor differences in the menues.

I'm not going to be looking for brand so much as "Are they available ?" - My feeling is that the performance on all of them will be pretty similar. Minor differences in the menues.

I wish they would compete on the menu interface, there's quite a lot of room differentiation. Setup and useful signal strength meters are the most useful. If it has EPG, you don't want an inadvertant button press to freeze the box for 2 minutes while it's scanning the channels for the PSIP data.

On the hardware side, it would be nice if there were models with switched outlets that let the box power off the TV as well.

I've seen another box. seems to be in a crowded competition

MaxMedia MMDTVB03

ATSC Digital Television Receiver (NTIA certified coupon eligible)

http://maxmedia-usa.com/images/stories/boxfront%20(Medium).jpg

http://maxmedia-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=27

Many boxes to choose from. I will definitely pick one that has best features.

MaxMedia MMDTVB03

Many boxes to choose from. I will definitely pick one that has best features.

I would say that is a suicidal attitude. You need to pick the one that gets good reception! If you do not get reception, then what good are the features? I would say get the Zenith or a box that also uses the 6th generation LG tuner chip and that has gotten good reviews by experts. Some companies may use the LG chip but screw up the design by not providing a good front end for the chip. The chips won;t work right if companies do not make the rest of the components correctly. That is why so many of those tiny computer tuners are not worth beans.

IB

Many boxes to choose from. I will definitely pick one that has best features.

Good reception counts as a feature, though I wonder how many stores will be set up so you can compare. Probably NONE!

Most people will probably just choose the one that's the prettiest. I could care less what chip it has, as long as it receives as well as my Samsung DTB-H260F I'll be happy. None so far are as pretty as my 260 though. Gotta wonder if Samsung will offer a coupon box that looks just like the 260, that would be nice. S-Video out would be nice too.

Press Release

Microtune's 3-in-1 Tuner Featured in DTV Converter Box Certified by NTIA

First Silicon TV Tuner Chip Deployed in NTIA-Certified Set-Top
Targeted for U.S. Coupon-Eligible Converter Box Program

PLANO, Texas--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Dec. 13, 2007--Microtune(R), Inc. (NASDAQ: TUNE) today announced that its 3-in-1 TV tuner was deployed in a digital television (DTV) converter set-top box approved by the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) for the $1 billion coupon-eligible converter box program (CECB) targeted to American consumers.

The recently certified set-top box contained the MicroTuner(TM) MT2131, the company's flagship high-performance, multi-standard miniature tuner chip. Certification is an essential step for customers in qualifying their digital-to-analog converter boxes for sale under the CECB initiative, and NTIA approval means that manufacturers can move their products into production for an early 2008 rollout. ...

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=121862&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1087155&highlightMT2131 SINGLE-CHIP TERRESTRIAL TUNER: PRODUCT BRIEF
http://www.microtune.com/products/pdf/mt2131_11.pdf

Microtune’s TV Tuners Enable Worldwide Digital TV Transition
http://www.microtune.com/

Avio

can't post the direct link, but there's a banner at the top of the Zenith page

can't post the direct link, but there's a banner at the top of the Zenith pageThanks for the heads-up.

Here's the new link to additional info for the Zenith DTT900:

http://www.zenith.com/dtv/dtt900.html

EDIT: Info is very basic. Designed for "Grandma."

2 PDF downloads available: Spec Sheet and Quick Start Guide.
Again very basic.

Remote Pictured. No S-Video Out on unit.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/RPMxB/dtt900remote.gif

Avio

That's a pretty basic remote, alright :D

The setup instructions are pretty basic too. Looks pretty grandme proof to me. (assuming Grandma's antenna will receive the local stations).

Being an owner of the Samsung DTB-H260F, that "Zoom" button on the remote scares me. Could mean lots of things.

Being an owner of the Samsung DTB-H260F, that "Zoom" button on the remote scares me. Could mean lots of things.The Spec Sheet says:

Video: 480i
Aspect Ratio: 4 Modes

Perhaps the 4 modes are: 4:3, 16:9, Stretch-A-Vision Wide, Stretch-A-Vision Tall.

Some of the choices could look like crap. :D

Avio

NTIA To Mail DTV Coupons February 17, 2008

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 12/17/2007

WASHINGTON —The U.S. Department of Commerce's National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) said last Tuesday it will begin mailing out digital TV converter box coupons to consumers who have applied for them, beginning on Feb. 17, 2008.

The administration will begin accepting applications for the coupons on Jan. 1, 2008 through March 31, 2009. Consumers can apply for coupons by calling 1-888-DTV-2009, or by registering online at www.dtv2009.gov ...

[MORE]

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6513248.html


Avio

Business Wire Press Release:

Auvitek’s AU8515 Demodulation and Channel-Decoding IC Powers Sansonic’s NTIA-Certified ATSC Set-Top Boxes

December 26, 2007 09:42 AM Eastern Time

2008 International CES
SAN JOSE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Auvitek International Ltd. (Auvitek), a leading supplier of high-performance digital television receiver solutions, today announced that two of Sansonic’s AU8515-based Coupon Eligible Converter Boxes (CECBs) designed by Falcon Digital have been formally certified by the National Telecommunications & Information Administration (NTIA) as passing the most stringent standards for ATSC reception.

The Sansonic FT-300A and the Sansonic FT-300RT CECBs, designed around Auvitek’s market leading AU8515 ATSC demodulation and channel-decoding IC, are the first in a number of models from Sansonic expected to receive formal approval from the NTIA, and will be available at major retail outlets in the US from Q1 2008.

The NTIA is certifying converter boxes that meet a stringent set of performance criteria, making them eligible for purchase using the $40 retail credit vouchers being offered by the US government as part of the upcoming transition from analog to digital broadcast television. The coupon program begins on January 1, 2008, and it is estimated that as many as 40 million NTIA certified CECBs will be sold at retail in the US during the 18 month period over which the coupon program operates. The government funded DTV Coupon Program is intended to offset much of the cost associated with ensuring the estimated 23 million US households that today rely solely on analog television reception will be able to receive digital broadcast programming using their existing analog TV sets when the analog broadcasts end in the US on February 17th, 2009.

“The NTIA ATSC receiver performance specifications are very challenging, and designing the Sansonic CECBs around the AU8515 was the only way we could guarantee surpassing the NTIA requirement,” noted Jun Liaw, CEO of Falcon Digital, the design and manufacturing company behind the Sansonic brand. “Working closely with the Auvitek team, our engineers developed and tested the platform over a 12 month period. Field tests throughout the United States have demonstrated that we consistently outperform other digital receiver solutions available today.”

“Auvitek’s patented and proprietary FADETM architecture is setting new standards for performance metrics in digital television reception,” said Auvitek President and CEO Pete Birch. “We are able to provide our customers consistent, quality signal reception in even the most difficult broadcast reception environments. Our CECB reference design is guaranteed NTIA-certifiable, and we are very pleased to have worked with Falcon to be one of the few companies able to deliver products to assist in the digital transition.”

The Auvitek AU85xx family of ATSC demodulator solutions is shipping today in a wide range of end products for both the consumer electronic and personal computer markets, including IP-STBs, digital TVs, PCI cards, and USB TV sticks. ...

[MORE]

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20071226005064&newsLang=en

Avio

The chips in some of those boxes will have QAM and even NTSC tuning, but the boxes obviously will not have that feature activated on the front end. What are the chances that the firmware will be hacked to make these boxes tune into unencrypted cable?

The Spec Sheet says:

Video: 480i
Aspect Ratio: 4 Modes

Perhaps the 4 modes are: 4:3, 16:9, Stretch-A-Vision Wide, Stretch-A-Vision Tall.

Some of the choices could look like crap. :D

Avio
If you look at the quick start, the setup asks for TV aspect ratio. Default setting is "Normal TV 4:3". It's surprising to me that they'd even have a setting for a widescreen TV 16:9. That's kind of nice, but who will ever have use for the 16:9 setting?

The zoom will probably work differently according to that aspect ratio setting. On the 4:3 setting, I'm guessing the 4 modes when viewing a 16:9 program are regular (letterbox?), center-cut, side-stretch, 2x.

The chips in some of those boxes will have QAM and even NTSC tuning, but the boxes obviously will not have that feature activated on the front end. What are the chances that the firmware will be hacked to make these boxes tune into unencrypted cable? ...
The Digital Stream SDTV-SX300 says on it's website that it is a, "cable clear QAM receiver." Presumably, it does clear QAM out of the box, without a hack.

Info, Features & Specs for the DigitalSTREAM D2A1D10 [SDTV-SX300]
http://www.dstreamtech.com/english/product/product_detail.asp?idx=29

At this point in time, who cares about NTSC tuning? It's about to drop dead. :D

Avio

At this point in time, who cares about NTSC tuning? It's about to drop dead. :DWell, there's the people who depend on an analog cable host channel for their TVGOS data, for one.

Then there's the ones who are perfectly happy with the analog tier that their cable company still has, and will possibly have for quite awhile in certain areas, who want both the QAM and NTSC tuners incorporated into one box, and who don't want to pay to rent one every month.

Cable companies have to at least keep the locals around in analog 'till 2012, and I'd think that plenty of NTSC tuners are going to be used until then, especially on TV's in rooms other than the main one.

So I'm sure there are many people who still care about NTSC tuning, generally speaking.

The 2009 analog cutoff date only applies to OTA, remember.

Cable companies have to at least keep the locals around in analog 'till 2012,

I guess I missed this. Is this a new law?

Ed

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/archives/digital-television-fcc-adopts-postdigital-transition-mustcarry-rules-extends-ban-on-exclusive-programming-contracts-and-opens-inquiry-into-tying-agreements.html
First, for a period of at least three years after the February 17, 2009 transition from analog to digital broadcasting, cable operators will be required to make the signals of local broadcast stations available to all of their subscribers by either: (1) carrying the television station's digital signal in an analog format, or (2) carrying the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content. This rule reflects a compromise position offered by the National Cable & Telecommunications Association, and is regarded as less burdensome on cable systems then the FCC's original proposal of an indefinite analog carriage obligation.

That's right, I forgot about that. If they supply the box, they can just send you the digitals. It doesn't say if they can charge for it or not (not sure about that), but I know they have been offering the box free for at least a temporary period in some areas already.

I imagine then that some areas may keep the analog locals around to the end, while others won't.

That's kind of nice, but who will ever have use for the 16:9 setting?

.
Older HD/ED 16:9 monitors without a tuner.

Converter-Box-Coupon Czar: Q&A with NTIA’s Baker

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 12/29/2007 11:00:00 AM

...

Q: Since participation by retailers is voluntary, are you concerned that there will be converter boxes available by Feb. 17 [2008]?

A: We have had extensive conversations with retailers, and we are comfortable with the date of Feb. 17. ...

Read the whole Q&A:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6515730.html?industryid=47174

Avio

The Digital Stream SDTV-SX300 says on it's website that it is a, "cable clear QAM receiver." Presumably, it does clear QAM out of the box, without a hack.

I'm curious to know if any of these boxes have exposed a BT601 or BT656 bus in them... They may be a really inexpensive way to get SDI output...

I'm curious to know if any of these boxes have exposed a BT601 or BT656 bus in them... They may be a really inexpensive way to get SDI output...We'll just have to wait and see.

I note the following statements in the Wiki "Serial Digital Interface" article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Digital_Interface

... SDI and HD-SDI are currently only available in professional video equipment; various licensing agreements, restricting the use of unencrypted digital interfaces to professional equipment, prohibit their use in consumer equipment. There are various mod kits for existing DVD players and other devices, which allow a user to add a serial digital interface to these devices. ...

Avio

What are these "converter boxes", ATSC OTA tuners? No component, or DVI/HDMI? Firewire?

What are these "converter boxes", ATSC OTA tuners? No component, or DVI/HDMI? Firewire?

Exactly - External ATSC tuners intended to allow older, analog TV's reception of OTA programming after Feb 17, 2009.
Allowed outputs - RF modulator, RCA audio L/R out, Composite video out, and S-Video out. You can count on the RF modulator, audio, and composite video as required outputs.
Not allowed outputs - anything else - no component, DVI, HDMI, TOSLINK, SDI, digital coax audio . No firewire either.

https://www.dtv2009.gov/ is up now. It appears that you can apply for a coupon at this time.

I applied for my coupons at 12:27AM EST just after watching Dick Clark in NYC at Times Square for the 2008 ball drop and to my dismay the confirmation date on my request shows 12/31/2007. I am worried that my application will be denied because their server is not running on EST. I sent email/left voicemail to person listed here: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/contact.html inquiring about the validity of my request. Does anyone know if https://www.dtv2009.gov/ was up on 12/31/2007 and if the coupon request page was active? Maybe I am OK with my submission?

I applied also. I called 888-388-2009 and it said my application was approved. Just call press 1 then 2 2 then 1 enter the Reference number the site gave you on the page to print out.

Heres a list of release dates for some of the boxes.
add www
energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=dta.pr_dta
or here
energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/DTAs_prod_list.xls

Website was not responding...called on the phone...coupon will be sent in feb.

Are any of these tuners too? Or just a converter box?

Tuner = convertor box in this context. ATSC tuner with RF modulator, analog L/R audio out, composite video out, and optionally s-video out. Nothing else, maybe another set of audios. Nothing digital output.

I tried the website approach first at: https://www.dtv2009.gov .

I filled out the web form to apply for my coupons but each time, when I submitted the completed form, I received the following error:

An unexpected error has occurred and has been logged... Redirected in 3 seconds...

Perhaps it's my firewall and security software doing its job.

After 3 tries I gave up and used the phone approach. Once I got to the recording to actually apply, the recorded voice knew my name and address before I gave any info! :eek:

... And I have Caller ID Blocking and an unlisted number! :rolleyes:

Kind of spooky when the feds know who's calling before you identify yourself. :eek:

I followed the voice recognition prompts and all went smoothly and my application was approved and I received my confirmation Reference number.

Avio

I applied also. I called 888-388-2009 and it said my application was approved. Just call press 1 then 2 2 then 1 enter the Reference number the site gave you on the page to print out.


I just signed up for the coupon. Does it matter that some of my TVs are on cable. It only gave me two options to check with the second option being no TVs on cable/satellite.
I tried the 888 number to check my status but it said no one was available and to call back later to check the status.

I just signed up for the coupon. Does it matter that some of my TVs are on cable. It only gave me two options to check with the second option being no TVs on cable/satellite.

Did you try answering "Yes" to the cable/satellite question? If you said no, then you lied to the government. Shame on you. Expect to see black helicopters buzzing your house and men in black knocking on you door sometime in the near future!

I just signed up for the coupon. Does it matter that some of my TVs are on cable. It only gave me two options to check with the second option being no TVs on cable/satellite.
I tried the 888 number to check my status but it said no one was available and to call back later to check the status.In the first distribution of coupons you are allowed to subscribe to cable or satellite for one or more of your TVs and request a coupon or two for your other secondary TVs that use OTA/antenna reception... Essentially anyone. The second distribution, if authorized by Congress, will be restricted to those who do not subscribe to cable, satellite, or pay TV service and only have OTA/antenna reception.

To check your application status go to:

https://www.dtv2009.gov/CheckStatus.aspx

Avio

I tried the website approach first at: https://www.dtv2009.gov .

I filled out the web form to apply for my coupons but each time, when I submitted the completed form, I received the following error:



Perhaps it's my firewall and security software doing its job.

After 3 tries I gave up and used the phone approach. Once I got to the recording to actually apply, the recorded voice knew my name and address before I gave any info! :eek:

... And I have Caller ID Blocking and an unlisted number! :rolleyes:

Caller ID blocking does not work on any toll-free number. When the party at the other end is paying for the call, they have a right to know who's calling.

I found this comment rather interesting
[ 35 ] To further prevent fraud, the Final Rule states that consumers may not sell, duplicate or tamper with the coupon.

Quoted from http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2b.htm


Sounds like they are specifically trying to prevent ebay transactions of the coupons to me

What are these "converter boxes", ATSC OTA tuners? No component, or DVI/HDMI? Firewire?

They take an OTA digital signal from an ATSC tuner (like an old antenna, and hopefully analog cable as well via QAM) and convert it to an analog RF signal for standard TVs. So nothing fancy-- the only ports you need are ANT IN, and ANT OUT. Think of it as a digital tuner box for old TVs. :)

I found this comment rather interesting
[ 35 ] To further prevent fraud, the Final Rule states that consumers may not sell, duplicate or tamper with the coupon.

Quoted from http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2b.htm


Sounds like they are specifically trying to prevent ebay transactions of the coupons to me
So what? Get the coupon, buy the converter, resell on eBay for a small profit. They can't stop that from happening because a coupon is not necessary to buy the converters.

I wonder how long before the coupons make it to eBay.:rolleyes:

"Are any of these tuners too? Or just a converter box?"
I think the real question I'd like to know are the same...from what I can tell from the instructions and from what you guys are discussing it sounds like this is a STB (Set Top Box) and not a real "converter" (something giving me conversion of the whole band to my TV). So what I am really trying to get to is, on my VCR, how is my VCR going to know how to change the channel on the STB and record the right information from the right channel? If there is no provision for this, then someone screwed up in the government and should allow more coupons to relace VCR's to HD-VCR and / or DVR devices. Any good thoughts on this or are us VCR people who spend their life recording and then watching toast?

Your VCR will probably not be able to change these channels. The best way to think of these is as a VCR, without the tape capability.

How you will use these boxes - tune your (analog reception device) to channel 3/4, turn on this convertor box, and use the convertor box to tune in the digital channels. I would not expect them to have a "program timer"

SO, you might want to start looking for a VCR replacement if you plan on doing timed recordings from OTA sources after analog goes dark - one that has it's own builtin ATSC tuner and you can program recordings from that.

I would not expect them to have a "program timer"

SO, you might want to start looking for a VCR replacement if you plan on doing timed recordings from OTA sources after analog goes dark - one that has it's own builtin ATSC tuner and you can program recordings from that.

But, then again, they may have a program timer that works with the EPG, like the Samsung DTB-H260F.
It appears there will be at least a dozen or so bozes on the market, and that would be one feature that would make me choose one box over another.

"Are any of these tuners too? Or just a converter box?"
I think the real question I'd like to know are the same...from what I can tell from the instructions and from what you guys are discussing it sounds like this is a STB (Set Top Box) and not a real "converter" (something giving me conversion of the whole band to my TV). So what I am really trying to get to is, on my VCR, how is my VCR going to know how to change the channel on the STB and record the right information from the right channel? If there is no provision for this, then someone screwed up in the government and should allow more coupons to relace VCR's to HD-VCR and / or DVR devices. Any good thoughts on this or are us VCR people who spend their life recording and then watching toast?

The Digital Stream box has an IR extender, so there is a chance your VCR or DVD recorder may be able to control it, the same way you can control a cable box. Probably not the sub-channels, but at least the main channels.
To timer record from sub-channels, you will probably need a STB with a timer feature - something to look for when you compare boxes.

Well thats all well and good but, the spec for the coupon boxes does not cover any other function. Other than that of being an ATSC Tuner to upgrade an Analog TV's NTSC tuner. So, hmm some of the other options for boxes maybe do that but, I am sure that would be a non-eligible box since it would be outside of the specs for the coupon class of boxes.
Spec of boxes is on the ntia site under dtvcoupon DTVmanufacturers.pdf
The nice Full Eligibility Criteria PDF details all the specs for the boxes
and what qualify for a $40 copon.

I have an older Sony progressive scan tube in my basement, and I noticed the Micro Prose tuner appears to perhaps support 480p:

http://www.microprosesystems.com/dtv.htm

Features:
* ...
* 480P Resolution

Is this possible through s-video, or is this just a misprint?

That box looks gigantic though :(

I'm considering the LG/Zenith box for the hamshack to replace an older USD (Hisense) box and *not* requesting a coupon (those coupons should go to those that need them).

Could someone explain or point me to a site that explains the differences between 4th, 5th and 6th gen chips?

I have a few of the Hisense USD boxes and they work great. However, I'm wondering what I'm missing or what is different with the new LG chips.

Also, if the Hisense is "older", what generation chip does it use?

I tried the website approach first at: https://www.dtv2009.gov .

I filled out the web form to apply for my coupons but each time, when I submitted the completed form, I received the following error:
[snip]

After 3 tries I gave up and used the phone approach. Once I got to the recording to actually apply, the recorded voice knew my name and address before I gave any info!

Kind of spooky when the feds know who's calling before you identify yourself.


I had no trouble with the website, although I was trying to hedge my bets as to the number of boxes we could get, thinking perhaps my GF (who lives with me) might be eligible for two of her own if her address was slightly different. So I tried to say I live in Apt. 1 (of my townhouse), but the web form knew there were no apartments at that address!

-Chris

I wonder how long before the coupons make it to eBay.:rolleyes:
The coupons themselves are only good for 90 days, are only worth $40 and since you had to supply an address to get them are probably traceable to whoever requested them.
I don't think that many coupons will show up on Ebay.

On the other hand you could always buy a converter box at a discount with a coupon and put it up on Ebay. :D

Could someone explain or point me to a site that explains the differences between 4th, 5th and 6th gen chips?This LG April 2007 Press Release provides some minimal comparison between the 5th and 6th gen chips. It also suggests that they will use the 6th-Gen Chipset in converter boxes:

Press Release
LG Electronics USA, Inc.

Release date: April 17, 2007

LG Electronics Launches Sixth-Generation ATSC Digital TV Broadcast Receiver Chipset
http://news.thomasnet.com/companystory/516849

... Digital-to-analog converter boxes planned for introduction next year (for analog TVs to continue to receive free, over-the-air broadcasts after Feb. 17, 2009, when all U.S. broadcasting is digital) also will benefit from the low- cost, high-performance chipset. ...

Avio

Well, the 4th generation chips are lousy no matter what brand you get. The 5th generation in LG or Samsung flavors have had very good reviews. LG is considered the best. The 6th LG chip, LG claims, is even better. Exactly why it is better only LG knows for sure. There is no way anyone can explain to you a trade secret that LG does not share with the world. They are not going to publish the schematic on the Web. I just wish LG made a real full HD tuner with it and not just a cheap converter box. My 3rd or 4th generation ATI chip in my RPTV is just not good enough for the task at hand.

By the way, it is my suspicion that the US Government will have millions of left-over coupons. I do not think the demand will be that great, and I think allot of people will get them and never cash them in on a box.

IB

does anyone know how to get ahold of maxmedia? like a tech support of customer service?

"Are any of these tuners too? Or just a converter box?"
I think the real question I'd like to know are the same...from what I can tell from the instructions and from what you guys are discussing it sounds like this is a STB (Set Top Box) and not a real "converter" (something giving me conversion of the whole band to my TV). So what I am really trying to get to is, on my VCR, how is my VCR going to know how to change the channel on the STB and record the right information from the right channel? If there is no provision for this, then someone screwed up in the government and should allow more coupons to relace VCR's to HD-VCR and / or DVR devices. Any good thoughts on this or are us VCR people who spend their life recording and then watching toast?
those who depend on VCRs today will either be wiped out by a giant meteorite falling from space or, most likely, they will have to get a newer DVD recorder with a digital tuner or learn about the newest thing on the market in the past 10 years: the DVR, often referred to as a TiVo.

does anyone know how to get ahold of maxmedia? like a tech support of customer service?Here's their contact webpage:

http://maxmedia-usa.com/index.php?option=com_contact&task=view&contact_id=2&Itemid=33

Avio

Zoran-Powered Apex Digital Converter Box Gains NTIA Approval

SUNNYVALE, CA, Jan 03, 2008 (MARKET WIRE via COMTEX) -- Zoran Corporation (NASDAQ: ZRAN) announced that its SupraHD 741 processor-powered Apex Digital ATSC Converter Box was approved by the U.S. Government's National Telecommunications and Infrastructure Administration (NTIA) for use in the Coupon-Eligible Converter Box program supporting the U.S. digital broadcast conversion. ...

Read the whole article:
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/industries/technology/article/zoranpowered-apex-digital-converter-box-gains-ntia-approval_422668_12.html

Avio

EngagetHD has a post on pricing of the Zenith box. http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/03/zeniths-atsc-digital-to-analog-converter-box-gets-priced/

Has anyone seen the eligible boxes in local brick and mortar stores yet?

Seems with such high interest in the 40 dollar coupon's that stores would actually be trying way hard to get their hands on them.

Radio Shack is going to have the Zenith box in mid Feburary ???

Seems they could sell them right now...Today...Not 40 days from now...40 bucks is great...But hey it is not like 69 dollars in going to break the bank.

I would buy the Zenith tomorrow if I could great my hands on one.

Hopefully the manufacturers and retailers will see a need to get these box's into "brick and mortar" stores ASAP.

Seriously, there are going to be a demand at the end of 2008/early 2009 for these things down in SE Arkansas from the rural-elderly crowd. Even though the area I live in has high D* and E* penetration many OTA antennas still stand, and nearly all are VHF/UHF combos or older VHF-only antennas. And these are not those in houses with the "tar paper" shacks or trailer parks, but generally socially conservative folk that often fear the "Internet" and "Cable TV" content.

There will probably be demand before May since those coupons they are now issuing expire in 90 days.

- Tom

There will probably be demand before May since those coupons they are now issuing expire in 90 days.Coupons won't be issued until coupon-eligible converters are in stores. The 90 day countdown will start when the coupons are mailed out.

...I gave up and used the phone approach. Once I got to the recording to actually apply, the recorded voice knew my name and address before I gave any info! :eek:

... And I have Caller ID Blocking and an unlisted number! Caller ID blocking does not work with calls to 800 numbers, because 800 numbers use something called ANI "automatic number identification," which predates caller ID.

Owners of toll free numbers are paying for the call and have the right to see who's calling. Additionally, they can subscribe to databases of the billing name/address associated with the numbers that call them.

Something to think about whenever you can a toll-free number.

Hopefully the manufacturers and retailers will see a need to get these box's into "brick and mortar" stores ASAP.

Are Amazon or other on-line retailers going to participate? It probably depends upon how easily they can add the coupon approval transaction to the checkout process. The NTIA only lets retailers participate that have been in business for a year.

Are Amazon or other on-line retailers going to participate? It probably depends upon how easily they can add the coupon approval transaction to the checkout process. The NTIA only lets retailers participate that have been in business for a year.According to NTIA, Amazon and other on-line retailers are going to participate.

Avio

Caller ID blocking does not work with calls to 800 numbers, because 800 numbers use something called ANI "automatic number identification," which predates caller ID.

Owners of toll free numbers are paying for the call and have the right to see who's calling. Additionally, they can subscribe to databases of the billing name/address associated with the numbers that call them.

Something to think about whenever you can a toll-free number.Thanks for this info. :)

I confirmed your post and learned more about the topic by reading the following Wiki articles:

Caller ID: Blocking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID#Blocking

Automatic number identification:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_identification

Avio

I confirmed your post and learned more about the topic by reading the following Wiki articles:

Caller ID: Blocking:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID#Blocking

Automatic number identification:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_identificationAvio, I could've saved you the trouble. I used to work for AT&T. :)

Press Release: Gutierrez Says Digital TV Converter Box Coupon Program Off to Great Start With Almost 1.9 million coupons requested

For Immediate Release: January 4, 2008

... The demand for coupons is strong. We've taken requests from every state for nearly 1.9 million coupons from more than one million households. ...

Read the full Press Release:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/press/2008/DTVcoupons_010408.html

Avio

man, those coupons are flying fast! at this rate, they'll have to start on the second batch by fall 2008.

Not allowed outputs - anything else - no component, DVI, HDMI, TOSLINK, SDI, digital coax audio . No firewire either.
I'm pretty sure I checked the specs and digital audio is allowed. In fact, I think one of the Philco boxes (TB150HH9) has coax digital audio. I don't know about the other brands/models.

I'm pretty sure I checked the specs and digital audio is allowed. In fact, I think one of the Philco boxes (TB150HH9) has coax digital audio. I don't know about the other brands/models.


I read the requirements - Digital audio of any kind is expressly prohibited. Just like any HDTV capable video.

Start here - http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2e.htm
Section D paragraph 51 - 56 for video, and 57 - 59 for audio

I read the requirements - Digital audio of any kind is expressly prohibited. Just like any HDTV capable video.

Start here - http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVFinalRule_2e.htm
Section D paragraph 51 - 56 for video, and 57 - 59 for audio

I couldn't find anything explicit about digital audio being prohibited (or permitted). It does say that digital outputs are prohibited, but that is in the context of video, and it's not clear whether that applies to audio also.

I guess we'll see - I'm not always right :) . But my interpetation is that only analog service outputs are allowed - which to me means no TOSLINK /Digital Coax audio, as per Paragraph 61

Any idea if one of these boxes can be controlled by an IR Blaster from a DVR?

I've given up cable now that I'm receiving OTA digital on my new TV, but I'd like to continue to use my Panasonic DMR-EH55 DVR/DVD recorder. One of these boxes would allow me to tune the digital OTA and record it onto my analog DVR via composite video (or maybe S-video on a different model) and line-level audio.

I wonder how similar the IR codes will be to a cable set-top box. Will I at least be able to tune in the major channel numbers (4.1, 5.1,) even if I cannot get the other programs on those stations (4.2, 4.3, 4.4)?

Won't know until we can experiment with them first hand.

I know that my Accurian ATSC tuner can be controlled with a Pioneer cable box code.

And welcome to the forum.

I know that my Accurian ATSC tuner can be controlled with a Pioneer cable box code.

That's hopeful news. Operating this way, does it just switch the among the X.1 channels or do you get X.2, X.3 somehow as well, such as through channel up/down?

My family really likes having recording capability with our DMR-EH55 even at standard definition; I personally just want a stop-gap while waiting for an affordable no-subscription HD recorder with a really good digital tuner.

-Steve Goodridge (who will be moving the antenna out of the attic and onto the roof next week....)

Operating this way, does it just switch the among the X.1 channels or do you get X.2, X.3 somehow as well, such as through channel up/down?Just the main. "X.1" channels. But that's OK here, where most of the subs are mainly an afterthought. Except for maybe 2 of them - one of which is the digital version of our main, local PBS channel (11.2), and the other shows old TV shows (26.2 - some real good ones you can't see anywhere else). But 26.2 will be moving to it's own, separate main channel pretty soon. There are a few others, but none of 'em are of any huge interest to me, personally.

Just the main. "X.1" channels. But that's OK here, where most of the subs are mainly an afterthought. Except for maybe 2 of them - one of which is the digital version of our main, local PBS channel (11.2), and the other shows old TV shows (26.2 - some real good ones you can't see anywhere else). But 26.2 will be moving to it's own, separate main channel pretty soon. There are a few others, but none of 'em are of any interest to me, personally.

I really don't care to record the sub-channels here, either. PBS has its HD programming on 4.2 but my son's shows are on 4.1, and those are what I need to record.

I look forward to getting the other older TV sets onto digital OTA as well....

I'm one who likes to record a few of our local sub channels. Two are for the kids, and one is the PBS HD channel.
One thing I've noticed about one of the up-coming coupon boxes is that it is designed to shut off after a few hours inactivity. Assuming the recorder can control the STB, can a recorder equipped with an IR blaster power a STB up and then change the channel?

I don't think so. Too risky because it could end up turning the box off if it was left on. But you should be able to disable the auto shut-off timer on these boxes. If you can't, then the engineer needs to be smacked...

Zenith Launches Digital-to-Analog Converter Box for Nation's Transition to
All-Digital Broadcasting

LAS VEGAS, Jan. 6 /PRNewswire/ -- Supporting the final phase of the nation's transition to all-digital television broadcasting, Zenith is launching an advanced yet affordable converter box that will bring digital TV signals to analog television sets. ...

... Honored with a 2008 CES Innovations Award for its handsome styling and consumer-friendly features, Zenith model DTT900 is being introduced here this week at the 2008 International CES ...

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS51327+06-Jan-2008+PRN20080106

Avio

... you should be able to disable the auto shut-off timer on these boxes. If you can't, then the engineer needs to be smacked...Maybe not. Might be a requirement to qualify for the coupon program.

The Zenith has two connection options, a antenna cable or an old fashioned composite video (not S-video or RGB) like they use of old VCRs. Which will give better video quality?

IB

Composite.

Maybe not. Might be a requirement to qualify for the coupon program.

From the link above about the Zenith:

ENERGY EFFICIENT. Designed to operate at less than 8 watts active and 1
watt standby, the Zenith DTT900 exceeds the U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency's EnergyStar program requirements for digital-to-analog converters. To
save energy, the Zenith box can be set to shut off automatically after four
hours.

Doesn't sound like it's required to me.

From the link above about the Zenith:

Doesn't sound like it's required to me.

It's required to auto shut off by default, but optionally devices can allow disabling this feature.

Hmm the manufacturerFAQ file covers almost all the details on what is and isn't allowed in a CECB units. In fact 16. asks if Digital audio is premited and the answer to that is a No as stated in Paragraph 55 of the Final Rule document.

The option of Digital Out on a CECB is NOT Allowed. As it says in the on The NTIA site under manufacturerFAQ Question Number 16. Most every spec is in the Manufacturers Docs on the NTIA site.

The option of Digital Out on a CECB is NOT Allowed. As it says in the on The NTIA site under manufacturerFAQ Question Number 16. Most every spec is in the Manufacturers Docs on the NTIA site.

Thanks for the info. Too bad...

Well, there's the people who depend on an analog cable host channel for their TVGOS data, for one.

Then there's the ones who are perfectly happy with the analog tier that their cable company still has, and will possibly have for quite awhile in certain areas, who want both the QAM and NTSC tuners incorporated into one box, and who don't want to pay to rent one every month.

Cable companies have to at least keep the locals around in analog 'till 2012, and I'd think that plenty of NTSC tuners are going to be used until then, especially on TV's in rooms other than the main one.

So I'm sure there are many people who still care about NTSC tuning, generally speaking.

The 2009 analog cutoff date only applies to OTA, remember.

There's one major flaw in that argument: that would assume that they receive the signal in analog format after the cutoff (which, according to everything the FCC or Congress has said, will, barring last-minute extensions, will be flatly impossible). Except for smaller cable companies, I know of none that relies entirely on antenna towers to receive OTA for retransmission; most have a (digital) alternate backhaul feed (for example, Comcast in Prince George's County (MD) uses both microwave and fiber-based backhaul, primarily leased from, of all people, *Verizon*). Also, Comcast in metro Chicago transmits *nothing* in analog whatever (Comcast Greater Chicago is an all-digital cluster, and one of at least two within Comcast's footprint).

Unless specified by the retransmission contract or other contract, digital-to-analog conversion is not a requirement anywhere past 2009. If it were, then wholesale digital conversions like Comcast's in metro Chicago couldn't happen.
(There *are* more such conversions planned, and most of them have nothing to do with SDV. Why else is Comcast launching a massive HD STB push (all new Comcast triple-play customers get one HD STB free + all non-premium HD programming free) in the former mid-Atlantic region (Philadelphia, PA to Richmond, VA)?

The Zenith has two connection options, a antenna cable or an old fashioned composite video (not S-video or RGB) like they use of old VCRs. Which will give better video quality?

IB
Composite will give you better video quality AND let you have stereo audio through the red and white RCA jacks.

PGHammer is right. A lot of people are confused by the "2012 requirement". Cable companies are NOT required to carry any analog signals...only to provide customers with an analog signal at the TV set (using a set top box or whatever). Which they won't stop doing after 2012, of course...so the date has no practical significance.

Let's keep in mind that a cable provider maintaining analog channels and digital ones, burns up a lot of available bandwidth. So why would a cable company not want to switch to all digital as soon as possible or allowed by FCC?

Also, Comcast in metro Chicago transmits *nothing* in analog whatever (Comcast Greater Chicago is an all-digital cluster, and one of at least two within Comcast's footprint).We're still gettin' the 2-77 analogs from Comcast in my suburban Chicago location.

Let's keep in mind that a cable provider maintaining analog channels and digital ones, burns up a lot of available bandwidth. So why would a cable company not want to switch to all digital as soon as possible or allowed by FCC?
Because it costs a lot to buy digital cable boxes to all customers that are currently analog-only, then it costs the customer a monthly fee for the box. Although the cost for boxes may go down very soon because of OCAP kicking in and allowing a lot of companies to sell cable boxes. The other hitch in going all-digital is that some folks just don't want a box for each TV in their house, period.

Best Buy Nervous About TV Conversion
Jan 9, 7:44 AM EST

LAS VEGAS (AP) -- Best Buy Inc.'s chief executive said Tuesday that he is "very nervous" about being able to supply customers with the millions of digital TV converter boxes needed ahead of the shutdown of most analog TV transmissions in 13 months.

"I think it's one of the biggest risks our industry has," vice chairman and CEO Brad Anderson told an industry audience at the International Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. ...

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GADGET_SHOW_DTV?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-01-09-07-44-48

Avio

On the hardware side, it would be nice if there were models with switched outlets that let the box power off the TV as well.

Any converter boxes with this feature? I have an old CRT with a blind IR receiver. If the box's remote controlled the volume I could keep this TV out of the dump for a few more years.

TIM

The Digital Stream model mentions having a sleep timer..... ????

What's there to be nervous about? Maybe the fact that the sales folks in their stores knowing very little will further confuse consumers. The store chains should look forward to this - there's lots of potential sales.

The concern all retailers are having is what is the demand going to be? When will inventory be available? Which converters to stock? Did anyone mention defects or returns? What is the profit margin going to be on the Echostar at an MSRP of $39.99 as opposed to the Zenith’s MSRP of $69.99. Which one will my customers want? Just how difficult is it going to be to manage this $40.00 coupon program?

We're still gettin' the 2-77 analogs from Comcast in my suburban Chicago location.

I was told by a Comcast rep last summer...and this past week...suburbs are going off in February 2009. If not sooner. RCN cable in Chicago goes all digital next month; it's a smaller company that serves Chicago and a few suburbs, I think.

It's funny - so many reviews online assume the antenna crowd is a bunch of old folks scared of technology.
Apparently, not everyone thinks so. Check this out: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197 . A DVR for us antenna people! My wife has been asking for one of these so it may be in my future.

Best Buy Nervous About TV Conversion
Jan 9, 7:44 AM EST



http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GADGET_SHOW_DTV?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-01-09-07-44-48

Avio

The only thing they are nervous about is not being able to sell their HDTVs when their customers realise they can get a converter box for almost nothing and keep their old TVs.

The only thing they are nervous about is not being able to sell their HDTVs when their customers realise they can get a converter box for almost nothing and keep their old TVs.

+1

New Brands and Models Appear on CECB Approved List:

Authorized Coupon Eligible Converter Boxes (CECB)
The NTIA will maintain a list of approved CECBs to distribute to consumers and participating retailers.

The following is the list of approved CECBs.

DigitalSTREAM D2A1D10
DigitalSTREAM D2A1D20
Zenith DTT900
Insignia NS-DXA1
Magnavox TB100MW9
Philco TB150HH9
Sansonic FT300A
Philco TB100HH9
MicroGEM MG2000
Sansonic FT300RT
MaxMedia MMDTVB03
Apex DT1001
ECHOSTAR TR-40
AMTC AT-2016
Goodmind DTA1000
CASTi CAX-01
COSHIP N9900T
DigitalSTREAM DTX9900
RCA DTA800
AccessHD DTA1010D
AccessHD DTA1010U
VENTURER STB7766G
Lasonic LTA-260
Lasonic LTR-260
Artec T3A

http://www.ntiadtv.gov/cecb_list.cfm

Avio

List of Converter Box Retailers & Approved CECB's with Links to Specs, Pics

http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Retailers.html

Avio

Would it be best for me to just stay away from the few boxes that feature S-Video output and get the Zenith to ensure that I'm getting LG's sixth-generation 8-VSB chip? I'd just have to buy a S-Video adaptor from Radio Shack: Model#NX-550, Part#55017211

This site won't let me post the Radio Shack link.....

My TV only has one S-Video input though. :( RIP S-Video DVD player, looks like we're going to have to go composite....lol

Thanks!

Would it be best for me to just stay away from the few boxes that feature S-Video output and get the Zenith to ensure that I'm getting LG's sixth-generation 8-VSB chip? I'd just have to buy a S-Video adaptor from Radio Shack: Model#NX-550, Part#55017211

This site won't let me post the Radio Shack link.....

My TV only has one S-Video input though. :( RIP S-Video DVD player, looks like we're going to have to go composite....lol

Thanks!IMHO, you should get the Zenith and use coax RF to antenna and coax RF to TV. I suggest not using the RS S-Video adapter.

Keep your S-Video from TV to DVD player.

My 2 cents... Avio

What's wrong with using composite from your converter box to your TV ?

Exactly... The picture quality would be the same, if not better by keeping it composite all the way.

Thanks for the advice Avio. I'll just stick with S-Video for my DVD player and not buy the RS S-Video adaptor. I actually DO have another composite input available on my TV for my digital converter.

I seem to be sold on the Zenith/LG chip converter unless another manufacturer comes out with a digital box featuring S-Video output that uses the same LG chip.

It's going to be nice to recieve a clear picture on NBC to watch latenight.

I will "stay tuned" to this thread/forum for the latest news. As you can see, I don't post much, but I do come here to read-up on my A/V needs.

Thanks everyone!

I have a question. I bought a new Philips DVD Recorder with built-in DVR HDD late last March it also came with a Home Theater system. It only has a NTSC and something I think called PAL tuners.

Does anyone know if I will be able to use it with the converter box or am I out of $400+ dollars in a little under 2 years of use?

Thanks.

Sure you can use it with a converter box - you'll just have to tune the digital OTA signal with the converter box then use either the RF input (most likely channel 3/4 like a VCR) or the A/V inputs (composite video or s-video, depending on what outputs your converter box has) for stereo.

Or you can buy another DVD recorder that has an ATSC tuner.

Or, if you are using cable - do whatwvwe the cable company tells you.

Sure you can use it with a converter box - you'll just have to tune the digital OTA signal with the converter box then use either the RF input (most likely channel 3/4 like a VCR) or the A/V inputs (composite video or s-video, depending on what outputs your converter box has) for stereo.

Or you can buy another DVD recorder that has an ATSC tuner.

Or, if you are using cable - do whatwvwe the cable company tells you.
Thanks I have DirecTV but still use a big outdoor antenna for local channels as where I live (elevation) I can pick up two different cities broadcasts thats especially good for watching news/weather and syndicated programs as well as PBS stations for diffrent programing.

Buying a new DVD recorder is out of the question at this time as its working great and I really like the Hard Disk Drive more than anything to pause/rewind live TV without having to subscribe to a service.

Don't forget: If you go with Scooper's advice, you have to figure out some way to change the channel on the converter box. You could of course do it manually, but then, if you go out, you could only record one channel per night. The other way that's been mentioned is to use an RF-blaster if your DVD recorder supports one, and if you can figure out the RF codes for the converter box. This could be harder than it sounds. :-(

I had hoped that there might be programmable converter boxes that would "automatically" change the channel at the correct time, but this doesn't seem to be happening.

-barry

I have a question. I bought a new Philips DVD Recorder with built-in DVR HDD late last March it also came with a Home Theater system. It only has a NTSC and something I think called PAL tuners.
.

You should have waited - Philips came out with an HDD equipped DVDr just a couple of months later that included both ATSC and QAM tuners - and it's only $300.

I had hoped that there might be programmable converter boxes that would "automatically" change the channel at the correct time, but this doesn't seem to be happening.

Well am I wrong or are there not going to be more high-end converter boxes with more bells & whistles? I thought they were going to have a cheap bare bones version (i.e. coupon program version) and a non coupon version say in the $100+ range with more stuff likes say a VCR or DVD recorders etc...

If it has recording - it doesn't qualify for the coupons.
If it has HD or digital outputs - it doesn't qualify for the coupons.

You should have waited - Phillip's came out with an HDD equipped DVDr just a couple of months later that included both ATSC and QAM tuners - and it's only $300.

Isn't Phillips now owned or at least partnered with LG Electronics? I remember see the term Phillips-LG many times. If that is true, I wonder if the Phillips box uses the LG 6th generation tuner chip. I also assume, but would like clarification, that the DVR-tuner combo is 480i resolution output only. I don't think it is a full HD tuner.

IB

Well am I wrong or are there not going to be more high-end converter boxes with more bells & whistles? I thought they were going to have a cheap bare bones version (i.e. coupon program version) and a non coupon version say in the $100+ range with more stuff likes say a VCR or DVD recorders etc...
Whenever they get around to releasing BLU-RAY (or HD-DVD) Recorders,
then you'll see HD capable DVR Recorders....

In the meantime, a PC (or DVCR) with an ATSC Tuner provides OTA HD record capability.

And Echostar/Slingbox just announced the (low cost) TR50 ATSC HD-DVR:
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9840910-67.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

Whenever they get around to releasing BLU-RAY (or HD-DVD) Recorders,
then you'll see HD capable DVR Recorders....

In the meantime, a PC (or DVCR) with an ATSC Tuner provides OTA HD record capability.

And TiVo/Slingbox just announced the (low cost) TR50 ATSC HD-DVR:
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9840910-67.html
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

The TR-50 is an Echostar product, the same people who make the Dish equipment. I predict subscription-free hard drive based HDTV recorders such as this one will saturate the market before Blue Ray or HD DVD recorders come down enough in price to compete, eliminating the market for BR or HD DVD recorders.

^+1 - or IPTV will obviate the need for a HD or BR recorder.

Fixed TiVo-->Echostar......way too many things swirling around in my head after CES2008....

Although external HDDs are leaping ahead to 2TB, all your long term recordings
will vanish in a flash WHEN (NOT IF) the DVR bites the dust.....

BD/HD-DVD Recorder will also appeal to many people who "collect" programs.
And many, many people still want the "poke-and-play" convenience of DVDs....esp for kidz.

Which is why On-Demand IPTV may be popular (esp. with millions of selections), but won't
eliminate need for "physical" storage options.

Why continue the hype re 6th Gen LG chip? Based on what test results?????
The much bally-hooed 5th Gen LG/Zenith chip tested by CRC had several shortcomings.
The later "Gemini" used in Samsung prototype (probably ATI Theater chip) was far superior:
http://www.crc.ca/en/html/crc/home/research/broadcast/rtnt

There are many newer chips, most probably with even better performance...we just
haven't seen any published test results....yet...

What good are these converters for watching HD OTA programming if the signal being output is analog? I ordered my certificate, but then read up about the converters. They do not have HD output connections even. I hope I am wrong, being I will need a ASTC tuner for my new projector.

Am I right or wrong?

What good are these converters for watching HD OTA programming if the signal being output is analog? I ordered my certificate, but then read up about the converters. They do not have HD output connections even. I hope I am wrong, being I will need a ASTC tuner for my new projector.

rgathright,
You are correct that the output is analog only for these boxes. The boxes in the coupon program are designed for conversion of OTA digital signals to older analog TVs only. They are very limited in features past that. I have a 15 yr old tv that I will be using it on in my exercise room to pick up local OTA.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

rgathright - you obviously have done ZERO reading about the converter boxes and the whole purpose for them. Start with www.dtv2009.gov and go from there.

What good are these converters for watching HD OTA programming if the signal being output is analog? I ordered my certificate, but then read up about the converters. They do not have HD output connections even. I hope I am wrong, being I will need a ASTC tuner for my new projector.

Am I right or wrong?

You are right. You have to know the difference between a converter and a dedicated HDTV tuner, such as the Samsung DTB-H260F. Converters are design to convert a digital signal to analog for older analog displays. Tuners are designed to output a HDTV digital signal (such as HDMI).

Sounds like you need a Samsung DTB-H260F.

I'm looking for suggestions. I have a friend in New York City who currently has an analog TV, a DVD player, and a VCR, connected to rabbit ears. She is quite happy with this setup and quite upset about the upcoming Feb 2009 conversion. She wants the following capabilities (which she currently has via analog) after 2009:

1. Watch TV
2. Watch one channel and record another.
3. Go out for the evening and record several shows (one show at a time) and change channels between shows.

She does this all on her current analog setup. I have found a couple of digital DVD-recorders that will handle the recording part, but none of them seem to have two digital tuners which I think she will need to watch one channel and record another. A digital DVD-recorder plus a cheap converter would probably do the job, but she doesn't like clutter, and adding the converter to the TV, DVD-recorder, existing VCR setup on her bedroom dresser starts to get kind of Rube Goldberg - like.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
-barry

Get a TiVoHD. No tape , no discs, a much better experience. And no clutter.

HD-DVR prices should come down later this year...right now TiVo has a monopoly.

I'm looking for suggestions. I have a friend in New York City who currently has an analog TV, a DVD player, and a VCR, connected to rabbit ears. She is quite happy with this setup and quite upset about the upcoming Feb 2009 conversion. She wants the following capabilities (which she currently has via analog) after 2009:

1. Watch TV
2. Watch one channel and record another.
3. Go out for the evening and record several shows (one show at a time) and change channels between shows.

She does this all on her current analog setup. I have found a couple of digital DVD-recorders that will handle the recording part, but none of them seem to have two digital tuners which I think she will need to watch one channel and record another. A digital DVD-recorder plus a cheap converter would probably do the job, but she doesn't like clutter, and adding the converter to the TV, DVD-recorder, existing VCR setup on her bedroom dresser starts to get kind of Rube Goldberg - like.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,
-barry

The Echostar TR-50 OTA DVR should also fill the bill (with no monthly fee!).

See Here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=972197

Brad

This looks like a very good solution. I'll keep my eyes open in the late summer/fall.

Thanks,

-barry

NTIA: DTV-to-Analog Converter-Box Coupon Demand Slowing
DTV-to-Analog Converter-Box Coupon Requests Down to 70,000 per Day

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/18/2008 11:25:00 AM

Digital-TV-to-analog converter-box coupon requests have leveled off since the first rush at the program's Jan. 1 launch, according to the National Telecommunications & Information Administration, which is overseeing the program.

According to spokesman Todd Sedmak, more than 1.78 million applications have been received so far for a little over 3.3 million coupons, which means that almost everyone is still requesting the maximum of two $40 coupons per household. ...

http://www1.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6523834.html

http://a330.g.akamai.net/7/330/2540/20080108153502/www.broadcastingcable.com/articles/images/BCST/library/NTIACoupon.jpg

Avio

Here's how Retailers will actually handle customer purchases of the boxes:

Digital-to-Analog Converter Box Coupon Program
Coupon Redemption Alternatives

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y15/RPMxB/cecb1.gif
Contact the Retailer Support Center for more information at RSC@clcdtv.com or 866-296-1107

http://www.ntiadtv.gov/docs/Coupon_Redemption_Alternatives.pdf

Also see:

TV Converter Box Coupon Program
Coupon Redemption Functional Overview
January 4, 2008
http://www.ntiadtv.gov/docs/CouponRedemptionFunctionalOverview.pdf

Avio

Shoot, looks like we all missed the boat...

LOL! Thanks, fixed the date. I'm the guy who writes the previous year on checks through January...

NTIA Approves Two GE Converter Boxes as Eligible for TV Converter Box Coupon Program

Business Wire: 2008-01-23 13:54:36

Jasco Products Company, GE licensee of consumer electronic accessories, computer accessories, home electric products, and personal security and surveillance products, today announces the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) has approved the GE Smart Digital Converter Box and GE Digital Converter Box as eligible for the TV Converter Box Coupon Program. This certification ensures consumers may redeem the program's $40 coupon vouchers towards the purchase of GE Digital Converter Boxes at participating retailers. ...

- GE Smart Digital Converter Box (22729; MSRP $59.99) with Smart Digital Antenna interface

- GE Digital Converter Box (22730; MSRP $49.99) without Smart Digital Antenna interface

http://www.pr-inside.com/ntia-approves-two-ge-converter-boxes-r400099.htm

http://www.jascoproducts.com/press/articles/articlefiles/31-jasco_ge_converter_box_pg6.jpg

Strange looking "BOX" :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

Avio

It's the electronics that count. Obviously - some "stylist" got his hands on the outside....

:eek:

NTIA's Baker: Converter Boxes Should Be on Shelves Feb. 18

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/24/2008 6:01:00 PM

... Baker said Thursday that she was still confident that digital-TV-to-analog converter-box manufacturers will have those boxes on the shelves by Feb. 18 (exactly one year before the DTV switch), when the NTIA has said it will start processing applications for coupons good toward the purchase of those boxes. ...

... Baker said that as of Wednesday [1/23/08], 3.7 million coupons had been applied for.

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6525433.html?industryid=47170

NAB's Rehr Asks Retailers to Ensure that Converter Boxes Are on Shelves

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 1/24/2008 6:55:00 PM

National Association of Broadcasters president David Rehr wrote the CEO of Best Buy and the heads of seven other major retailers asking them to make sure that digital-TV-to-analog converter boxes are on the shelves by February, when the National Telecommunications and Information Administration has said that it plans to start processing applications for government-subsidized $40 coupons toward the purchase of those boxes. ...

... In his letter to Best Buy CEO Bradbury Anderson, ... Rehr said that since the company had taken a leadership role in DTV consumer education, it should match that leadership in getting boxes to the stores. "Given the heightened awareness of the coming transition," he wrote, according to a copy of the letter obtained by B&C, "it is our hope that no consumer walks into a Best Buy store, coupon in hand, without being able to purchase a coupon-eligible converter box. That scenario could cause great consumer confusion and consternation." ...

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6525438.html?industryid=47170

Avio

I wonder if any of these new tuners will go into "scan mode" when in standby or turned off,to continally update the EPG.I've got a Humax box that does this,but it's useless as it's always locking up...pure junk.

Wal-Mart already has the Magnavox TB100MW9 on its store shelves. There were at least 12 on the shelf today in Fairfax, VA. You can see the box on their web site at walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870 and check for inventory on your local store. Should be plenty of converter boxes when the coupons come in February.

Wal-Mart already has the Magnavox TB100MW9 on its store shelves. ... Thanks for your post. This is the first one I've heard of that's actually in stock.

In addition, today I located an online vendor listing the following CECB:

PHILCO DIGITAL TV SET TOP CONVERTER BOX
DTV Digital-to-Analog Converter [TB100HH9] $48.36

http://www.emartinc.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=38102

Avio

Wal-Mart already has the Magnavox TB100MW9 on its store shelves. There were at least 12 on the shelf today in Fairfax, VA. You can see the box on their web site at walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870 and check for inventory on your local store. Should be plenty of converter boxes when the coupons come in February.

Interesting that digital audio output is listed as a feature, even though this is supposedly prohibited in coupon-eligible boxes.

Interesting that digital audio output is listed as a feature, even though this is supposedly prohibited in coupon-eligible boxes.
Digital audio is NOT a disqualifying feature.
Check out page 25 for list of permitted/disqualifying functions:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVCouponFinalRule_031207.pdf

Digital audio is NOT a disqualifying feature.
Check out page 25 for list of permitted/disqualifying functions:
http://www.ntia.doc.gov/ntiahome/frnotices/2007/DTVCouponFinalRule_031207.pdf

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/manufacturerFAQ.html

16. Are digital coaxial audio outputs or SPDIF (optical) outputs permitted on eligible converter boxes?

No. Technical Appendix 2, "Outputs" includes examples of disqualifying features. Digital coaxial and SPDIF optical outputs are not consistent with the statutory description of "converter box." (See Pub. L. 109-171, Section 3005(d) and Paragraph 55 of the Final Rule.)

Which has more credibility....the actual final published rules....
or an FAQ on a website which was probably prepared while in the middle of
all that discussion you see preceeding the actual rules.....

Fol. PCWorld CES2008 report says Philco TB150HH9
supports digital audio (coax) as well as a Smart Antenna:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080102/tc_pcworld/140751
[Yes, the Magnavox and Philco are on the NTIA APPROVED list.]
http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Retailers.html

Could be Philips (Magnavox & Philco) are following the actual PUBLISHED rules.....
or WalMart & PCWorld info is incorrect.....

FYI: EnergyStar list for DTV Convert Boxes also addresses a few other features:
www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/DTAs_prod_list.xls

Which has more credibility....the actual final published rules....
or an FAQ on a website which was probably prepared while in the middle of
all that discussion you see preceeding the actual rules.....

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see anything about digital audio output in the rules. Which is probably why it's a "FAQ".

That didn't stop them from disqualifying it. The official lists says that the Magnavox is eligible.

ntiadtv.com/cecb_list.cfm

This PDF says nothing about disqualifying audio outputs.

ntia.doc.gov/dtvcoupon/DTVmanufacturers.pdf

Digital, audio outputs go against the spirit the mandate, but such outputs were not specifically listed as a disqualifying feature in several documents. The FAQ is the only one that says otherwise.

They could have disabled 5.1 bitstreaming and forced 2.0 PCM to make it qualify. Component or even firewire would be far more useful, but of course they're not allowed. Digital coax is a gimmick.

Most significant fact is that it did NOT make it into the "Disqualifying Feature"
column under "Outputs (Audio)".

Most significant fact is that it did NOT make it into the "Disqualifying Feature"
column under "Outputs (Audio)".

It's not listed as a permitted feature, either. It's not mentioned at all.

Which makes it ambiguous....enough for any lawyer to drive a bulldozer over it....

Why doesn't Walmart mention whether the Magnavox is a CECB on their website?

The ambiguity is probably why it got approved in the first place. Still, NTIA could have forced them to downmix to 2 channels to make it eligible.

Wal-Mart already has the Magnavox TB100MW9 on its store shelves. There were at least 12 on the shelf today in Fairfax, VA. You can see the box on their web site at:

www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8283870

Interesting that digital audio output is listed as a feature, even though this is supposedly prohibited in coupon-eligible boxes.If the quote below is correct, I think what we may have here is a plain old misprint. :eek:



Philips will show three models at CES: one under the company's Magnavox brand, and two under its Philco brand. The three models will be priced between $59 and $69, says Philips. The Magnavox TB100MW9 DTV Digital-to-Analog Converter also has one set of composite audio/video outputs, offers trilingual (English, French, and Spanish) on-screen setup, supports V-Chip parental controls and digital closed captioning, is EnergyStar compliant, and comes with its own remote control.

The Philco TB100HH9 DTV Digital-to-Analog Converter is an entry-level model that's identical to the Magnavox in features and specs. The step-up model, the Philco TB150HH9 DTV Digital-to-Analog Converter, adds digital audio output via coaxial audio ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/20080102/tc_pcworld/140751

However, the quote does say that the Philco TB150HH9 has digital audio out via coax and this model is on the CECB list. Now we're back to the Eligibility question! :D

Avio

The display model of the Magnavox TB100MW9 at Wal-Mart only had RF output + RCA Audio (R/W) & RCA composite video (Y). No digital outputs were on the display model. I believe that the Wal-Mart website has incorrect information on the converter box.

Walmart will also be carrying the RCA DTA800: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=8343230

Too bad the two boxes listed either have wrong info. Which really doesn't surprise me at all. Also being that they are sorted under DVD ACCESSORIES?
Well, that great gee would think they don't want people to find the boxes at all? Ah well maybe better in the next two weeks?

...they are sorted under DVD ACCESSORIES?

Player and Recorder Accessories. I suppose in a round-about way you could consider a CECB a DVD recorder accessory, if you are using it to record with your analog tuner equipped DVD recorder after 2/17/09.

Best Buy has the Insignia converter box on their website:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8624081&st=CONVERTER&type=product&id=1199495190393

Radio Shack has the Zenith
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3006502&cp=&pg=2&searchSort=TRUE&sr=1&y=11&y=11&retainProdsInSession=1&retainProdsInSession=1&origkw=converter&s=A-StorePrice-RSK&x=12&x=11&kw=converter&parentPage=search

RE:Zenith box DTT900

Its listed at $69, versus most of the other boxes $49-59. In layman's terms and based on the specs, what makes it worth more than the other so far?

Good news. Now we need them to start showing up in the stores, and the coupons to start coming to people.

RE:Zenith box DTT900

Its listed at $69, versus most of the other boxes $49-59. In layman's terms and based on the specs, what makes it worth more than the other so far?

Perhaps the marketer who sets the price reads this forum and know's that alot of people want to try the DTT900 since they think it may have LG's 6th gen chip.:rolleyes:
Or, maybe the higher cost is an indicator it has the 6th gen chip.

Anyone willing to buy one and open it up to confirm?

Question about February 2009:

When my friend buys one of these digital converter boxes, and Feb 2009 comes and goes, will all network broadcasts be 16:9? Are the networks planning on stopping their 4:3 equivalent stations?

Anybody know?

Thanks,
-barry

Perhaps the marketer who sets the price reads this forum and know's that alot of people want to try the DTT900 since they think it may have LG's 6th gen chip.:rolleyes:
Or, maybe the higher cost is an indicator it has the 6th gen chip.

Anyone willing to buy one and open it up to confirm?

Whats the big advantage of the 6th gen chip?

Whats the big advantage of the 6th gen chip?

They go to 11.

Whats the big advantage of the 6th gen chip?

For the most part, each new generation of the chip has improved a tuner's ability to reject multipath problems. Can make a very big difference when there isn't line-of-sight between the transmitting antenna and the antenna at home receiving the signal.

I live in Manhattan - I use a Silver Sensor indoor antenna, and although I live on the 22nd floor of a high rise, am surrounded by much taller buildings.

My Sony HD300 receiver has a 4th generation chip, while my Sharp television set's tuner has 5th generation - and there's a "world" of difference. The Silver Sensor's signal is split between the two tuners. While the Sony cannot provide a given signal, the Sharp brings it in rock steady. And this is the case with many channels.

I can only imagine the improvement that will be made by the 6th generation chip!

Question about February 2009:

When my friend buys one of these digital converter boxes, and Feb 2009 comes and goes, will all network broadcasts be 16:9? Are the networks planning on stopping their 4:3 equivalent stations?


I don't know why anything would change from the current state. The "main" channels will be 16:9, but sometimes carry 4:3 content (thus the importance of having a "zoom" mode on converter boxes).

Incidentally, the aspect ratio issue is sure to confuse and frustrate people more than any other aspect of the digital transition...and sell a lot of new TVs.

They go to 11.


...ok Nigel :D

The RCA just looks cheap I know there going for an older generation but I am only 28yo but with 4 tv's in the house I can't afford to replace them with a brand new HDTV.

O.K. Is it me or does the Zenith and the Insignia look like the same box right down to the remote control? Look real close!

Zenith

http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/2/7/8/LG_Zenith_DTT900.jpg

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-4453913w345.jpg


Insignia
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/8624/8624081_ra.jpg

Insignia Remote Control
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/8624/8624081rca.jpg

The RCA just looks cheap I know there going for an older generation but I am only 28yo but with 4 tv's in the house I can't afford to replace them with a brand new HDTV.

O.K. Is it me or does the Zenith and the Insignia look like the same box right down to the remote control? Look real close!

Zenith

http://www.slashgear.com/gallery/data_files/2/7/8/LG_Zenith_DTT900.jpg

http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-4453913w345.jpg


Insignia
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/8624/8624081_ra.jpg

Insignia Remote Control
http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/8624/8624081rca.jpg

Wouldn't be surprised at all if it were made by LG for Best Buy.

LG manufactures a lot of products for other manufacturers.

In fact, my Sony HD300 Receiver is actually an LG product.

... O.K. Is it me or does the Zenith and the Insignia look like the same box right down to the remote control? Look real close! ... This MS Excel Spreadsheet file from EnergyStar.gov confirms that the Insignia and the Zenith are both manufactured by LG and have many of the same specs:

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/DTAs_prod_list.xls

Here's the HTML version from Google:

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:1J7EMHyGD4kJ:www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/DTAs_prod_list.xls+Insignia+NS-DXA1+zenith+dtt900&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=17&gl=us

Avio

74% of Consumers Who Know About Digital TV Transition have Major Misconceptions, Survey Finds

January 30, 2008

Washington, DC— There is major confusion among consumers about the looming transition to digital television (DTV), according to a new survey from Consumer Reports National Research Center. Seventy four percent of respondents who said they were aware of the upcoming transition had serious misconceptions of its impact.

The survey also found over one-third (36%) of Americans living in households with TVs are entirely unaware of the government-mandated transition to digital broadcasting slated for February 2009.

"Confusion about the digital television transition will cost consumers a lot of money for equipment they may not want or need,” said Joel Kelsey, policy analyst for Consumers Union, the non profit publisher of Consumer Reports. “Based on these survey results, it is now clear that the government and every media company that profits from people watching television must do whatever it takes to make sure consumers will keep getting broadcast TV without paying a dime more than necessary." ...

Read the full story:

http://www.consumersunion.org/pub/core_telecom_and_utilities/005383.html

Avio

Broadcom Powers RCA Digital-to-Analog Converter Box in Support of the NTIA's Digital-to-Analog TV Coupon Program

Based on Broadcom(R) Digital TV Technology, the RCA DTA800B is Certified as an NTIA Coupon-Eligible Converter Box that Extends the Lives of Analog-Only TVs in the U.S.

January 28, 2008: 08:00 AM EST

IRVINE, Calif., Jan. 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Broadcom Corporation , a global leader in semiconductors for wired and wireless communications, today announced that the RCA DTA800B digital-to-analog converter box utilizes a Broadcom(R) digital television (DTV) system-on-a-chip (SoC) solution designed specifically to facilitate the transition from analog-to-digital broadcasting. As part of the U.S. Department of Commerce's National Telecommunications and Information Administration's (NTIA's) digital-to-analog converter box program, the RCA DTA800B, powered by Broadcom DTV technology, has recently been certified as a "coupon-eligible converter box." ...

... Utilizing the Broadcom BCM3543 ATSC (Advanced Television Systems Committee) receiver, the RCA DTA800B converter box is designed to receive ATSC high definition television (HDTV) broadcasts and convert them to NTSC (National Television Systems Committee) signals. Designed in a 65 nanometer process technology, the BCM3543 SoC is a highly integrated, low power digital "television-on-a-chip" receiver that provides superior ATSC signal reception targeted at the NTIA's coupon-eligible "analog switch-off" converter box program. The BCM3543 features on-chip support to convert all ATSC standard and high definition inputs to 480i output formats for display on analog televisions. ...

Read the full story:

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/LAM06328012008-1.htm

Avio

Interesting. I wonder how the Broadcom chip stacks up to LG's? A small part of me hopes it performs worse 'cause that RCA box is friggin' ugly!

And this tasty tidbit from the "Latest Information" on EZDigitalTV.com:

We spoke to a representative from the NTIA, and she said "We do not have an on-line retailer to announce yet, but we are working on it."

http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Retailers.html

Avio

Interesting. I wonder how the Broadcom chip stacks up to LG's? A small part of me hopes it performs worse 'cause that RCA box is friggin' ugly!Here's the description and tech specs of the Broadcom BCM3543 Chip:



BCM3543
ATSC Digital Receiver System-on-Chip

The BCM3543 is a highly integrated low-power solution combining the functionality of a complete ATSC-to-NTSC converter on a single chip. It provides superior Advanced Televisions Systems Committee (ATSC) signal reception and demodulation under both static and dynamic multipath conditions, with functionality targeted at National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) coupon-eligible converter box programs for analog switch off.

The BCM3543 is compatible with an ATSC antenna design available exclusively from Broadcom. The BCM3543 exclusive antenna provides a high-performance indoor solution that only requires a single cable interface, eliminating difficult and costly outdoor installations. The antenna control is seamlessly integrated into the BCM3543 user interface, eliminating the need for consumers to manually adjust the antenna position in order to receive optimal signal reception.

Features

* Complete digital-to-analog converter (DAC) System-On-Chip solution

* Integrated receivers include a ATSC 4-1024 QAM receiver, 12-bit analog-to-digital converter (ADC) with internal AGC, all-digital clock and carrier recovery

* Superior ATSC signal reception and demodulation under both static and dynamic multipath conditions

* Full peripheral support eliminates the need for additional components including LED/Keypad, BSC/SPI master, IR receiver/blaster, PWM, and dual UARTs

http://www.broadcom.com/products/Cable/Digital-TV-Solutions/BCM3543

2 page PDF Product Brief spec sheet with text & 2 block diagrams:
http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/3543-PB04-R.pdf

Avio

Finally, a CECB appears on Amazon.com... No mention of whether Amazon or its other affiliate vendors will accept the Coupons.

Philco TB100HH9 D/A Converter
http://www.amazon.com/Philco-TB100HH9-D-A-Converter/dp/B000YC8NYY/

Multiple Amazon Merchants offering this Converter Box:
* Includes Amazon w/Free Super Saver Shipping for $56.53
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000YC8NYY/

Avio

Here's the description and tech specs of the Broadcom BCM3543 Chip:



2 page PDF Product Brief spec sheet with text & 2 block diagrams:
http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/3543-PB04-R.pdf

Avio

So nice of them to put in a QAM tuner. Let's hope manufacturers didn't bother disabling it.

Don't jump to conclusions about the RCA box being able to decode QAM. I won't believe it until someone plugs their cable into one and confirms it.

So nice of them to put in a QAM tuner. Let's hope manufacturers didn't bother disabling it.

Don't jump to conclusions about the RCA box being able to decode QAM. I won't believe it until someone plugs their cable into one and confirms it.

:confused::confused:

Where in my post did I jump to that conclusion?

Don't jump to conclusions about the RCA box being able to decode QAM. I won't believe it until someone plugs their cable into one and confirms it.

See: http://ezdigitaltv.com/support-files/dtv_manufacturers_converter_box_requirements.pdf

If you read this, QAM is not an allowed feature based on this verbiage:

Any device or capability which provides for more
than simply converting a digital over- the-air
television signal (ATSC) for display on an analog
television receiver (NTSC)

There is a spread sheet listing features and chipsets for every CECB SD-STB in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980052&page=2

Would appreciate if you all would jot down part numbers for big chips and "tin can" tuner....

==========================================
MODERATOR: Is it of any interest to move non-DTT-900 posts to above thread????
Or merge the threads.....

I also posted information re SMART ANTENNAS in the CECB SD-STB Comparison thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13015675&posted=1#post13015675

I can't believe that Circuit City is going to sell them for just $49.99! That means minus your coupon you get the box for just $9.99. They must be selling them at cost as a gift to little old ladies.

Has anyone gotten their coupon yet?

IB

The coupons aren't going to be sent out until Feb. 17 at the earliest.

The coupons aren't going to be sent out until Feb. 17 at the earliest.

Is that a *send date* or an expected delivery date?

IB

Is that a *send date* or an expected delivery date?

IBHe said, "Feb. 17 at the earliest."

NTIA announced they will make sure that stock is available in the stores before they mail the coupons... so I guess you could consider the date a send date. But, it will not necessarily be exactly 2/17/08.

Avio

TV Converter Box Coupons are plastic cards that look like gift cards. They will be mailed to households with approved applications, starting in late February, sent based on the date of application, in the order in which the applications were received, mailed on a staggered basis – not all at once, delivered by the U.S. Postal Service.

Found at http://www.ezdigitaltv.com/Converter_Box_Coupon_Program.html

Will they have a code so you can buy the boxes off the Internet? I want to get mine from Circuit City, but I don't want to drive the the 15 miles to CC to pick it up. At $49.99 it qualifies for free CC delivery, so via the Internet it would cost me just $9.99 delivered, a super deal. I checked the Radio Shack website and that states the full price of $69.99. I guess they don't have the same spirit of giving as CC. Walmart has the Magnavox converter box advertised for $49.87 but states it is only sold in stores, not on-line. I could not find any listing at Amazon. Is the Magnavox box made by LG like the Zenith or is it their own design? I am getting the Zenith anyway because I want to be 110% sure I get the new 6th generation LG chip.

IB

... Is the Magnavox box made by LG like the Zenith or is it their own design? ... The Magnavox TB100MW9 is manufactured by Philips Consumer Electronics.

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