Will DIVX support cause the death of HDM?

Ever since Sony announced DIVX support for the PS3, I started thinking about a few things. It looks like just about every HDM title is available in DIVX now, along with thousands of other titles converted from HD broadcasts. There are also lots of threads here and in other forums about stream video to the PS3 (and 360) from a home PC.

So my question is, will the console owners start file-sharing their videos just like they do with their MP3 files? Why would they pay $30 for a movie when they can get a 4 GB 720p or 1080i version for free…one that they can load up on their media server, and is much more convenient to play. Sure its not, 1080p with lossless audio, but will those millions of console owners care.

So here are the sad facts. There are tens of millions of potential video pirates. Ripped HD DVD and Blu-ray titles are only a tiny fraction of the HD content that is available illegally (and some legally), so many of the files we are waiting for, they have access to now. It’s more convenient to play a movie from a hard drive than a disc. It’s free. These people have already been trained for the past 10 years on how to share files. I don’t think they care if its 720p vs. 1080p or DD vs. lossless. With a DIVX version, you can make a copy that plays on you Zune/iPod/etc.

So what do you guys think? Will this move by Sony to make the PS3 more attractive along with the xbox 360 and its video streaming abilities be the beginning of the end for HDM?

For sure.

All of these gamer d00dz would likely be happy to watch a 640x480 movie on their HDTV if it was free. Screw hi-def they would say.

For sure.

All of these gamer d00dz would likely be happy to watch a 640x480 movie on their HDTV if it was free. Screw hi-def they would say.

It will be compatible with 720p 5.1 surround Divx. I'd assume that you could match the HD quality from the XBox marketplace downloads.

I dont see it happening.

Happening here in Korea already.



Am now considering selling off my entire HD movie collection of over 90 HD discs, save for a few, because it's obvious what people are doing here, rather than buying HD. They may be worth very little in the future... at least around here.

A guy where I work tried to give me a copy of Mr. & Mrs. Smith on a DVD-R. I am not sure if it was a .mkv file or divx. He said his friend has over 100 HD movies already (I told him I did not want to have anything to do with it).

My fear is that by formally annoucing divx support, Sony may be helping to open the flood gates.

So much for BD+ on the newest Pirates 3, eh?/IMG]Considering there is no BD+ on Pirates 3, this makes no sense.
[quote]Am now considering selling off my entire HD movie collection of over 90 HD discs, save for a few, because it's obvious what people are doing here, rather than buying HD. They may be worth very little in the future... at least around here.Way to fear-monger. Maybe in Korea--land of super-high bandwidth and extremely cheap technology--this is a problem, but in the US, there is neither the bandwidth nor the lack of regulation that makes this a distinct possibility for at least the next several years. As long as the tech companies, the ISPs, the studios, and the government (or at least the legislative and executive branches) are all in bed with at least one or all of each other, then this is such a tiny majority so as to make it less than a blip on the radar at the moment.
My fear is that by formally annoucing divx support, Sony may be helping to open the flood gates.And magically, Microsoft has not? :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, this has existed for years on PCs, with a much higher penetration than all the consoles combined, and this is just now being brought up. Odd, especially with the bogeyman title of "death of HDM". It's almost as if some were actively wishing for it...

My fear is that by formally annoucing divx support, Sony may be helping to open the flood gates.

Actually the Dashboard update for the 360 that supports Divx goes live tomorrow. The one that lets you use Divx on the PS3 is a big question mark. So your statement really should say:

My fear is that by formally annoucing divx support, Microsoft may be helping to open the flood gates.

Hey,

No offense but that screen shot looks pretty poor PQ wise.

I see lots of people on gaming forums getting excited about divx support and I can't imagine why. I have no DivX files.

I guess it's like the Mp3's people crave the stuff you can pirate. Make it all free. Sadly,.. that will kill off the entertainment industry if it happens but oh well.

-Brian

I will probably just keep the discs I love the very most (Stargate, Invincible...)

Illegal downloads won't replace HDM.

A) They're illegal.
B) They a humungous hassle to get.
C) They take forever to download.
D) The quality sucks.
E) The encoding sucks, not just for quality, but also because the people doing them don't seem to know how to encode anything to meet any sort of common spec. Ie. If you download something, you shouldn't expect it always to actually work as is on something like a 360. Yeah, they may work on a computer, but most people don't run a HTPC with VLC in their living room.

I would rather buy a disc than download a pirated movie just to save a few bucks. Why go to all the trouble of getting a HD tv, surround system and then resort to downloading divx files to watch? Im sure those people without game consoles arent going to rush out and buy one just to watch downloaded divx movies.

PC's had it first and they launched anyway, it'll be a foot-note in HDM's history not its undoing.

I don't understand the reasoning. People have been ripping DVD's now for years. Didn't stop DVD from selling.

Won't happen here either.

Well, I like having the physical media. I like the artwork, and the pictures. It's just fun. I even hate throwing out the paper covers that are meant to be thrown off.

PC's had it first and they launched anyway, it'll be a foot-note in HDM's history not its undoing.

Almost all PCs are not hooked up to a TV, but consoles are. Consoles make it 10x easier to watch downloaded movies.

As for downloading bandwidth, my bet is that most people can set their peer to peer file sharing program to downlaod a movie and they will have it the next day.

Firstly, obtaining these files, while not impossible, is difficult.

It takes a connection with some serious bandwidth. Additionally you have to be concerned with ISP throttling etc.

.MKV files are very large, etc. This isn't even remotely as easy as ripping a DVD.

DVD ripping didn't kill DVD sales, and I see no reason why this would even make a dent.

The big problem here are these clubs, which are limited to a certain number of close members who share everything at high speed. People have more-or-less gone underground in small groups. The only way they can stop those people is by tracking bandwidth.

There are also multiple "pay" sites, which appear legitimate, but are illegal. They skirt the law by "attempting" to filter copywrited content, but people just rename the files a few letters off of the original, and it stays up. People pay something like 80 cents per download.

I think people in the USA, as someone mentioned, won't do this as much as in a place like here or Japan. This area, however, is always a precursor of what is to come.

Not every Divx file on this planet is a pirate movie. I used to watch The Screen Savers on TechTV (before G4 killed everything) and I have about 200+ Divx files which are The Screen Savers episodes that I recorded with my TV Tuner. I don't know if you remember or not, but 4-5years ago there was no high quality AVC codec (or H.264) and WMV sucked pretty bad. So the only way to have decent quality home videos were Divx or making a DVD copy (and a lot of consumer DVD authoring programs did a pretty bad job with their MPEG2 encoding anyway) so I encoded many of my home movies to Divx (and made DVDs out of really important ones).

Divx/Xvid get used by many pirates for movies and no doubt about it. I don't support it and I can't understand why someone would watch his/her fav. movies in a crap quality like that.
But complaining about Divx support is something new to me. So now we are getting upset because Sony and Microsoft are being more open and supporting codecs instead of doing their own codecs like always? It is good that they are being more open to consumers.
Not every single Divx file is a pirate movie. I used to download many podcasts in Divx and I still have many recorded shows encoded using Divx and I want to be able to watch them on my PS3. Nowdays I encode everything using AVC because it's more efficient and gives better quality (despite being slow even on my mac pro). Divx was a single reason I bought a cheapo Philips DVP5982 to be able to take advantage of my old library of movies (I have to say my Philips does a good job though).

And Divx support wont kill HDM. Just give HDM sometime and it will grow. You can't expect everyone to adapt HDM in 2 years. It's gonna take time but it will happen so little patience is required.

I personally thankr Microsoft and Sony for adding popular codecs to their popular systems; it's something long due and they have finally listened.

PS:I'm thinking of converting all my Divx movies to AVC. I did few tests and few things I found out :
)It's gonna take a long time
)It's hard to adjust codec bitrate for every video so you don't waste space and bandwidth
)You lose some quality because you convert from one lossy codec to another

Illegal downloads won't replace HDM.

A) They're illegal.
B) They a humungous hassle to get.
C) They take forever to download.
D) The quality sucks.
E) The encoding sucks, not just for quality, but also because the people doing them don't seem to know how to encode anything to meet any sort of common spec. Ie. If you download something, you shouldn't expect it always to actually work as is on something like a 360. Yeah, they may work on a computer, but most people don't run a HTPC with VLC in their living room.

I only agree with A, B, and C.

Illegal downloads may not replace HDM, but they are not that inferior to them in quality (speaking about avc encoded mkv files, etc)

But complaining about Divx support is something new to me. So now we are getting upset because Sony and Microsoft are being more open and supporting codecs instead of doing their own codecs like always? It is good that they are being more open to consumers.

Not every single Divx file is a pirate movie. I used to download many podcasts in Divx and I still have many recorded shows encoded using Divx and I want to be able to watch them on my PS3. Nowdays I encode everything using AVC because it's more efficient and gives better quality (despite being slow even on my mac pro). Divx was a single reason I bought a cheapo Philips DVP5982 to be able to take advantage of my old library of movies (I have to say my Philips does a good job though).

And Divx support wont kill HDM. Just give HDM sometime and it will grow. You can't expect everyone to adapt HDM in 2 years. It's gonna take time but it will happen so little patience is required.

I personally thankr Microsoft and Sony for adding popular codecs to their popular systems; it's something long due and they have finally listened.
I by no means am complaining about getting DivX support. I agree with you. However, I never used DivX to encode anything. The whole thing just seemed like too much of a mess until very recently.

But while you are happy they're getting DivX support because of your own saved files, you can be 100% sure that the main reason these guys are adding DivX is because of the popularity of bootleg content amongst the gamer demographic.

PS:I'm thinking of converting all my Divx movies to AVC. I did few tests and few things I found out :
)It's gonna take a long time
)It's hard to adjust codec bitrate for every video so you don't waste space and bandwidth
)You lose some quality because you convert from one lossy codec to another
That would be a complete waste of time IMO. Disk space is cheap. I assume your time isn't.


I only agree with A, B, and C.

Illegal downloads may not replace HDM, but they are not that inferior to them in quality (speaking about avc encoded mkv files, etc)
The best H.264/AVC MKV files I've seen look OK on a 20" computer screen, but they look poor on my 90" projector screen. That's not unexpected if you're talking about heavily (re-compressed). HD DVDs may be 20+ GBs just for the main feature. Bootleg MKV files are many, many, many times smaller.

Admit it or not. It will hurt the sales of fence movies.

Fences Movies: Movies you kinda want but don't want to spend $20-$30 on.

Admit it or not. It will hurt the sales of fence movies.

Fences Movies: Movies you kinda want but don't want to spend $20-$30 on.
Well, I rent those for $4 on DVD. Takes about 5 minutes of my time.

Yeah, bootlegs hurt disc sales, but they certainly don't kill them.

But while you are happy they're getting DivX support because of your own saved files, you can be 100% sure that the main reason these guys are adding DivX is because of the popularity of bootleg content amongst the gamer demographic.

I definitely agree with you here. Both companies are ought to make their consoles popular. They know that lots of teens watch those low quality divx files so why not give them another reason to buy those consoles?
What bothers me is anything that happens lately somehow relates to HDM's demise. It's like some people are actually waiting for HDM to go away (and I don't mean you by the way) so now we are down to the point where even Divx is killing HDM.
I think people are being impatient regarding this whole HDM thing; enjoy your movies in Hidef glory and mass adoption will happen; although it will be slow.

However, I never used DivX to encode anything. The whole thing just seemed like too much of a mess until very recently
I hear ya. It took me a good amount of time to finally learn how to encode using divx properly. Now it seems like they finally got it together by introducing profiles and more encoding options (although they had profiles since 2004).

I only agree with A, B, and C.

It's obvious many here don't know what they're talking about, A is really the only valid detriment to download. Yes they're big, but with internet connections hitting the 5-10Mbps mark reliably, big is not big problem. Just look at Xbox Live marketplace, you can download them in almost realtime. I've streamed 720p trailers on my DSL connection. So there are B and C out the window.

Illegal downloads may not replace HDM, but they are not that inferior to them in quality (speaking about avc encoded mkv files, etc)

I agree that I don't think illegal downloads or DivX support on the Xbox/PS3 will be a cause of the downfall of HD optical, but I do think that they are a symptom of the mentality that may well be the cause of HD optical's failure.

That mentality is that convenience and price are far more important to most people than quality. One need look no further than the music industry to see this mentality in action. MP3s took off because they're incredibly convenient. "Digital music" is huge today because of convenience, not quality.

HD optical has a slightly better chance than DVD-A/SACD, since the difference is more apparent, but DVD-A and SACD may well be the model that HD optical ends up following. Both failed (for all intents and purposes) because they sacrificed convenience for quality.

...They know that lots of teens watch those low quality divx files so why not give them another reason to buy those consoles?...

And many of those low quality dixv files are much higher resolution than 480i SD. I did a quick search and 720p seems to be the most popular. I also just learned that the 2.35:1 movies are encoded to 1280x5??p to remove the black bars and save space.

I guess that suff is no different than the 720p stuff broadcast on ABC, Fox, and ESPN.

Oh, that brings up that point I mentioned earlier. There are thousands of more shows available that way...some even legal.

It's obvious many here don't know what they're talking about, A is really the only valid detriment to download. Yes they're big, but with internet connections hitting the 5-10Mbps mark reliably, big is not big problem. Just look at Xbox Live marketplace, you can download them in almost realtime. I've streamed 720p trailers on my DSL connection. So there are B and C out the window.
That's a pretty poor argument.

Just because you can often download some movies in a matter of HOURS instead of days (with your internet connection maxed out) doesn't that's the case for everyone for all movies...

And that still doesn't solve the quality (mediocre at best, doesn't even work at worst) issue, or the fact that it's illegal and such downloads are often specifically throttled by the ISPs.

As for Xbox Live Marketplace... of course the experience is better. You pay Microsoft to legally download movies that are professionally encoded.. That's a completely different kettle of fish.


And many of those low quality dixv files are much higher resolution than 480i SD. I did a quick search and 720p seems to be the most popular. I also just learned that the 2.35:1 movies are encoded to 1280x5??p to remove the black bars and save space.

I guess that suff is no different than the 720p stuff broadcast on ABC, Fox, and ESPN.

Oh, that brings up that point I mentioned earlier. There are thousands of more shows available that way...some even legal.
Still, those 720p bootleg videos are horrendously compressed. On even the best ones, the compression artifacts are painfully obvious on any large HD TV.

So now we are getting upset because Sony and Microsoft are being more open and supporting codecs instead of doing their own codecs like always? It is good that they are being more open to consumers.


Great point, I think. People are going to pirate things no matter what. People aren't going to start pirating more just because now they can transfer it to their console. Getting the file is still 99% of the work, and most people don't feel like doing it.

In short, I think adding support for more codecs should be applauded.

Admit it or not. It will hurt the sales of fence movies.

Fences Movies: Movies you kinda want but don't want to spend $20-$30 on.

Not really. Fence Movies are more like Netflix Rentals to me.

That's a pretty poor argument.

No it's not.

Just because you can often download some movies in a matter of HOURS instead of days (with your internet connection maxed out) doesn't that's the case for everyone for all movies...

Of course not, but consider that it takes days for a move you order to arrive.

And that still doesn't solve the quality (mediocre at best, doesn't even work at worst) issue,

Have you even seen one? I've downloaded TV shows my DVR missed and the quality is very good.

or the fact that it's illegal and such downloads are often specifically throttled by the ISPs.

Like I said, I agree that it's illegal. I buy my movies becuase that's the right way to get them.

As for Xbox Live Marketplace... of course the experience is better. You pay Microsoft to legally download movies that are professionally encoded.. That's a completely different kettle of fish.

It's slightly different. The file sizes are similar, the quality is similar. The only real difference is the legitimacy.

Still, those 720p bootleg videos are horrendously compressed. On even the best ones, the compression artifacts are painfully obvious on any large HD TV.

The shows I've seen have been on par with the typical "HD lite".

Anyway, the main point of my argument is twofold:

Downloading HD is not nearly as big a deal as some here think.
People are more conerned about convenience than quality.
HDM's biggest opponent is convenience and people's general apathy about quality.

I've been downloading HDM in mkv and .ts containers for years now, but I still recently went purple with a PS3 and HDA30 as I want to advanced audio and perfect video quality.

However, downloaded HDM in terms of pure picture quality can look about 80-90% of what HDM looks like, and that's at 106" on my FP.

I continue to retain downloaded HDM due to the fact that some of those movies just aren't available on HDM disks yet, like LOTR, Star Wars trilogies, Indiana Jones trilogies, etc.

But slowly as they do become available on HDM disk, I will begin to get away from HDM downloads as the HDM disks provide better pq and definitely better aq.

It's slightly different. The file sizes are similar, the quality is similar. The only real difference is the legitimacy.
I think the biggest difference is that it actually is easy, and works consistently.

Bootleg MKVs require either a PC/Mac, or else an intense hacker mentality.

Of course not, but consider that it takes days for a move you order to arrive.
I don't rent movies online actually. However, I do buy movies online.

Have you even seen one? I've downloaded TV shows my DVR missed and the quality is very good.
Yes of course. I've seen many. It's not even in the same league as HD DVD (or Blu-ray). There is simply no comparison, quality-wise.

Downloading HD is not nearly as big a deal as some here think.
Yes, it is, and I have 4-5 Mbps DSL. Downloading bootleg HD (and then actually playing it where you want to play it) is a humungous pain.

I have no problem whatsoever endorsing HD DVD for the living room, for anyone with an HD TV that enjoys HD. Even if those bootleg MKVs were not bootleg, I would not recommend those to anyone except a subset of geeks, unless the delivery system and the playback methods improve drastically.

Bootleg MKVs require either a PC/Mac, or else an intense hacker mentality.


???

Ok, I'll give you that it requires a PC or a Mac to download them, but remuxing an AVC mkv to something that the PS3 for example can play is not an intensely hard task...It can take as little as a couple of minutes if you have the file, depending on size.

???

Ok, I'll give you that it requires a PC or a Mac to download them, but remuxing an AVC mkv to something that the PS3 for example can play is not an intensely hard task...It can take as little as a couple of minutes if you have the file, depending on size.
Exactly:

My GF: My friend's kids want to watch Shrek The Third on HD DVD on your projector. Can you set it up for them?

Me: I'm busy right now, but you can do it yourself. Just select "Xbox 360" the Harmony remote, and then hold the remote there for 10 seconds while it sends all the codes for the various devices. Then stick the movie in the HD DVD drive.

vs.

Me: Yeah, OK. Go to a torrent site and download the appropriate mkv torrent. Make sure it's a 2+ GB torrent that specifies 720p or better rez. Once you've got it downloaded (about 12 hours later), run xxxx to extract the x264 video and re-encode the audio to AAC 2.0, to be remuxed into an mp4 container and hope for Xbox 360 compatibility. It shouldn't take that long, maybe 15 minutes or so, but once you burn it, you will be able to check it on the Xbox 360. If the 360 says it's incompatible, you can try the conversion process again. You can check the various settings in the help file if you're having trouble. The end result should be OK, as long as you don't mind some digital artifacting and possible audio synchronization issues.

Yeah, it's a piece of cake.

The PS3/360 support of divx won't hurt HD movies for people with home theater setups as PS3s/360s only output stereo.

What it will hurt is TV ratings and their dvd sales.

PS3/360 divx support? ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Companies like Slysoft? Possibly.

As much as a large portion of people hate Blu-ray and BD+, I was hoping it would work because of the subject of this thread.

Anyways, the person who enjoys heavily compressed 720p video is probably the type of person who would stick with dvd and never buy into HDM either way.

Illegal downloads won't replace HDM.

A) They're illegal.
B) They a humungous hassle to get.
C) They take forever to download.
D) The quality sucks.
E) The encoding sucks, not just for quality, but also because the people doing them don't seem to know how to encode anything to meet any sort of common spec. Ie. If you download something, you shouldn't expect it always to actually work as is on something like a 360. Yeah, they may work on a computer, but most people don't run a HTPC with VLC in their living room.

A) Most people don't care
B) Not even remotely, it usually takes 2 clicks to get something
C) Downloads are very fast if it's a popular file
D) Most people don't care
E) Most people don't care

I believe they represent a definite threat to HDM. They won't kill it, but they are definitely hurting it's sales.

A) Most people don't care
B) Not even remotely, it usually takes 2 clicks to get something
C) Downloads are very fast if it's a popular file
D) Most people don't care
E) Most people don't care

I believe they represent a definite threat to HDM. They won't kill it, but they are definitely hurting it's sales.
Most people don't care. Right. However, the people that don't care are not the HDM market.

Oh and downloads often are completely nonexistent if it's a less popular file.
As for the 2 clicks. That's rarely true.

P.S. Since we're talking "most people". It would seem that most people don't even know what an .mkv file is. And when they do find out how complicated it is to play these things, many simply give up.

You guys are getting hung up in the details and not seeing the big picture, and what is that big picture?

There is essentially 0 retail/commercial content in DivX. 99% of DivX content is transcoded from another format (eg DVD). Despite these seemingly significant drawbacks, DivX is very popular among the young/technical minded crowd. DivX's popularity is due to it's convenience (ala mp3) not due to reference quality or commercial content availability.

What does all that say about HD optical? No, DivX won't kill HD optical, and no internet piracy isn't going to do much against HD optical either. What the addition of DivX to the 360, PS3, and an increasing number of CE devices shows is the publics general lack of interest in audio/video quality. They're more interested in putting movies on their ipods and laptops, playing files from their computer, etc than they are in making the step to higher quality audio and video.

Looking at the industry, the devices/products that are taking off these days are the ones that increase convenience, connectedness, and portability, not the ones that increase quality. This public indifference to increased A/V quality and pursuit of convenience/portability does not bode well for the the HD optical industry, at least not for it succeeding in the vein of DVD. I think HD optical is struggling for LaserDisc status at this time.

The industry would really have to kneecap DVD to make HD optical a success and if DVD-A and SACD are anything to go by, the industry doesn't have the cajones to try that.

Will DivX/WMV/H.264 support on PC cause the death of HDM?

There is legitimate Divx content out there... I bought a divx playing dvd recorder and divx.com supports VOD with Divx encoded files. I never used the service myself but you can read more here:

http://vod.divx.com/

The Divx support is a boon to people who have divx players or other extenders and might want a ps3 or 360 but haven't bothered with either yet. The ps3 serves as a nice trojan horse because those people could try out a bluray disc and see how much better it looks compared to their crummy divx encodes. The 360 can do the same thing but the ps3 is an easier transition since you dont need any extra hardware.

Illegal downloads won't replace HDM.

A) They're illegal.
B) They a humungous hassle to get.
C) They take forever to download.
D) The quality sucks.
E) The encoding sucks, not just for quality, but also because the people doing them don't seem to know how to encode anything to meet any sort of common spec. Ie. If you download something, you shouldn't expect it always to actually work as is on something like a 360. Yeah, they may work on a computer, but most people don't run a HTPC with VLC in their living room.


Have you ever downloaded anything by groups like ESiR? The quality is as transparent as it gets to the source. These guys know what they're doing. Furthermore, there are standards and it takes me 45mins to download a 720p HD film.

The ease of playing mkv's is unreal. I can have over 250 HD films on a media server ready to watch. No messing about with discs, with HDCP, with AnyDVD to hack AACS/BD+. It's just damn easy.

Incidentally some of the 720p encodes by ESiR I have are actually better than the original disc because there is no real time downscaling for my 720p projector - when they encode they use superior scalars that require too much juice for real time.

MAY force the Studios to re-visit their pricing strategy.

Im not going to get to involved in this . However I will say that for some people the time between when a movie is out in thearters and when It comes out on disc is too long of a wait . I know many people who see something they really like in the thearter twice , then download it and watch it a few more times and then buy it on dvd.

The only movies I download are movies that I can't see any other way. For instance King of Kong . I missed it the 3 weeks it was playing in NYC and the next place I could go to see it was in Philly . So I downloaded it . But I did enjoy it and I will buy the disc as soon as I find it avalible in a store or online. There is allways one or two movies a year that end up like this .

Divx support on my 360 wont change much as Burning a dvd to play on my a dvd player doesn't take much time anyway.

Then you've all got to realize that the user agreement you sign with a PS3 (and probably a 360, but i haven't read it) basically states that they are watching what you do with your PS3.

Have you ever downloaded anything by groups like ESiR? The quality is as transparent as it gets to the source. These guys know what they're doing. Furthermore, there are standards and it takes me 45mins to download a 720p HD film.

The ease of playing mkv's is unreal. I can have over 250 HD films on a media server ready to watch. No messing about with discs, with HDCP, with AnyDVD to hack AACS/BD+. It's just damn easy.
So you have a home media server then. OMG, so damn easy.

Incidentally some of the 720p encodes by ESiR I have are actually better than the original disc
You of course just killed any chance of getting anyone to believe you.

Have you ever seen an ESiR encode? Do you know anything about resizing? Do you even know how to download films and where to get them from?

I'm not denying that the original disc is better quality on a 1080p setup. Mine's 720p, however. As you left off in your quote.

Here's a screen shot of their encode of Worlds End: http://www.keepmyfile.com/image/745e2b2005589 [8gb encode]

Have you ever seen an ESiR encode?
Yes. They're pretty good as far as bootlegs, but not in the same league as HD DVD or Blu-ray (for obvious reasons). Not even close. I really don't understand how anyone could claim otherwise, unless they're watching on a 20" screen or something.

Do you know anything about resizing? Do you even know how to download films and where to get them from?
Did you even read my previous posts?

I'm not denying that the original disc is better quality on a 1080p setup. Mine's 720p, however.
I guess you don't realize that most so-called "720p" displays (for movies) out there aren't even 720p. I have three "720p" displays. One is actually 720p and the other two are 768p. Often times, a 768p display will look better from a 1080 source as compared to from a 720p source (again, for obvious reasons). Oh and my two main computer displays are 1080p (well, 1200p actually).

I have a 108" front projection system.

Thanks for the info on your display systems, I don't see what it has to do with the discussion. Mine's still 720p not 768, not 1080 it's 1280x720. Again, real time scaling is not as powerful as resizing done properly, which is what accounts for the quality difference.

I have a 108" front projection system.

Thanks for the info on your display systems, I don't see what it has to do with the discussion. Mine's still 720p not 768, not 1080 it's 1280x720. Again, real time scaling is not as powerful as resizing done properly, which is what accounts for the quality difference.
You're the one that brought up resolutions, and so I went with it. The point is that with most so-called "720p" displays (ie. most people), you're still doing real-time scaling from a 720p source to get to the native display resolution.

However, my projector is a 90" 1280x720 as well. I'm glad we have similar setups.

I would suggest you purchase a HD DVD player or a Blu-ray player for comparison, if you haven't already. The improvement over bootleg HD is remarkable. Seriously, it's not even in the same league.

Any compression artifacts that you may see in bootlegs -- and there are lots -- are completely gone once you move to HD DVD or Blu-ray. Scaling artifacts are a different story, but the primary concern in movies IMO are the compression artifacts, unless you're dealing with stuff like text.

With a large projector screen, you're really doing yourself a disservice by using noticeably inferior sources such as 720p bootlegs. Now, I will readily admit that many people simply won't care. But I would hope that a projector-owning AVSer would care...

I've got both blu-ray and HD DVD players. There are no compression artifacts on ESiR encodes I have seen (I think Transformers is the exception, but I watched that off HD DVD).

I'm not doing myself a dis-service, I love my setup. What lots of people don't seem to realise is that visual acuity is a subjective matter. The only time I ever see compression artifacts is for TV shows.

.

With a large projector screen, you're really doing yourself a disservice by using noticeably inferior sources such as 720p bootlegs. Now, I will readily admit that many people simply won't care. But I would hope that a projector-owning AVSer would care...


Would you agree that the 720p bootlegs look better than SD DVD?

I see noticeable banding, etc. on such bootlegs. Plus it's a major hassle downloading these anyway, and getting them played on movie display.

Given it's such a waste of time and effort, and there is noticeable image degradation, and because it's illegal, I basically don't bother. And I'm an geek by by the standards of the general population. It's much easier just to rent the movies, and most of the average jack/jill crowd would probably agree IMO.


Would you agree that the 720p bootlegs look better than SD DVD?
Good point, and yes I would agree that is often the case. However, they're still bootlegs, with all the problems with distribution, etc. I mentioned before... along with the very serious problem of their (lack of) legality.

Bugs, have you tried usenet? If you use Newzin + SabNZBD it's literally a one click process to download, you can even stream them. Then it's ready to view on your HTPC. It's much easier than renting. Only things I rent now days are games. But I do have a 20mbit pipe.

I cancelled my Giganews last month, and am in the middle of dismantling my 4.5TB file server (yes it was 95% at capacity, too!!), in favor of the additional quality and care-free-ness of HDM, plus HD DirecTV.

I do own a Xbox 360, which is used solely for gaming, and a PS3 which is used solely for Blu-Ray playback.

My HTPC just got relagated to iTunes and web browsing duty.

Does that answer your question?

P.S. does anyone want to buy a 16-port SATA RAID card or a pile of 500GB W/D hard drives??

Bugs, have you tried usenet? If you use Newzin + SabNZBD it's literally a one click process to download, you can even stream them. Then it's ready to view on your HTPC. It's much easier than renting. Only things I rent now days are games. But I do have a 20mbit pipe.

I think this is unnecessarily complicated for the average person interested in hi def movies. First you have to know which program to download or group to join, then you have to actually download the movie, then you have to get the movie from your pc to your TV (which will be an issue for most people who dont have their pc and TV in the same room or dont have a means of streaming to their TV's). Compared to the simplicity of just buying a HDM player and sticking a disc in and watching it without any further hassle and at its native resolution its probably a stretch to say divx downloads will kill HDM.

I think a survey of BB, Walmart or CC customers will show how low priority donwnloading movies is compared to the convenience of options like Netflix or watching HD cable or satellite.

Yes. They're pretty good as far as bootlegs, but not in the same league as HD DVD or Blu-ray (for obvious reasons). Not even close. I really don't understand how anyone could claim otherwise, unless they're watching on a 20" screen or something.

Good point, and yes I would agree that is often the case. However, they're still bootlegs, with all the problems with distribution, etc. I mentioned before... along with the very serious problem of their (lack of) legality.

I guess that explains it all there. Apparently better than DVD == "not in the same league". :rolleyes: Are you one who thinks DVD is crap and can't enjoy DVD anymore?

Youtube is "not in the same league". Better than DVD is definitely in the same league as HD DVD or Blu-ray.

P.S. does anyone want to buy a 16-port SATA RAID card or a pile of 500GB W/D hard drives??

I do, well, technically I want a 12-port card and 1TB drives. My 3TB is basically full with the 400 DVDs I own, and (now that HD DVD and Blu-ray are rippable) I'm starting to buy HD DVDs as well. I need somewhere to put them.

My understanding is, DivX in this case is a generic name, meaning MPEG-4 Part 2, just like DivX capable DVD players are.
That means it will play XviD as well (maybe not the ones using GMC and QPel).

I'm not surprised Sony offering this in its PS3, it ain't exactly a smashing success so far and would benefit from additional capabilities.
But considering DivX started with a "stolen" first abandoned MPEG-4 implementation from Microsoft, I'm really surprised they went this route. Probably just to match PS3.

I'd agree that some dowloadable mkv's are easily better than DVD and satellite HD and to see the difference between them and
the real HD/BD movie requires some non-trivial investment in home theatre equipment.

Diogen.

I cancelled my Giganews last month, and am in the middle of dismantling my 4.5TB file server (yes it was 95% at capacity, too!!), in favor of the additional quality and care-free-ness of HDM, plus HD DirecTV.

I do own a Xbox 360, which is used solely for gaming, and a PS3 which is used solely for Blu-Ray playback.

My HTPC just got relagated to iTunes and web browsing duty.

Does that answer your question?

P.S. does anyone want to buy a 16-port SATA RAID card or a pile of 500GB W/D hard drives??

Dude, your post made me laugh...


I did the exact same thing. Cancelled Usenet, dismantled my HTPC, because @ the price points now for HDM it doesn't make sense to deal with all of the BS.

I actually saved some time and money by going dual over the constant upgrading , not to mention the WAF.

Really, everyone here makes it sound easy to do the DL thing, but let me tell you, I've been into HTPCs for over 5 years, and the new .mkv and HD rips take some serious horsepower and tinkering...

It's truly not worth the trouble.

My understanding is, DivX in this case is a generic name, meaning MPEG-4 Part 2, just like DivX capable DVD players are.
That means it will play XviD as well (maybe not the ones using GMC and QPel).

Yes, DivX is an implemetation of MPEG-4 ASP.

But considering DivX started with a "stolen" first abandoned MPEG-4 implementation from Microsoft, I'm really surprised they went this route. Probably just to match PS3.

The first revisions of DivX were as you describe, up until version 3 I believe. Starting with Version 4, DivX was a legitimately developed commercial product.

...let me tell you, I've been into HTPCs for over 5 years, and the new .mkv and HD rips take some serious horsepower and tinkering...It just means you haven't been long enough in this... :) Otherwise you would have enyojed it.

On a serious note: no, it doesn't take serious horsepower and tinkering is limited...

Diogen.

Well the dashboard update is out now...how long until HDM dies?

:D

I guess that explains it all there. Apparently better than DVD == "not in the same league". :rolleyes: Are you one who thinks DVD is crap and can't enjoy DVD anymore?

Youtube is "not in the same league". Better than DVD is definitely in the same league as HD DVD or Blu-ray.
Huh? Like I said before, maybe that's the case on a very small display, but "better" than DVD in terms of image qualitycan mean a lot of things, but "in the same league" as HD DVD or Blu-ray on a large screen it most definitely isn't.

And even that notwithstanding, the main problem with bootleg HD is the hassle factor, which is absolutely enormous by optical media standards.


Dude, your post made me laugh...

I did the exact same thing. Cancelled Usenet, dismantled my HTPC, because @ the price points now for HDM it doesn't make sense to deal with all of the BS.

I actually saved some time and money by going dual over the constant upgrading , not to mention the WAF.

Really, everyone here makes it sound easy to do the DL thing, but let me tell you, I've been into HTPCs for over 5 years, and the new .mkv and HD rips take some serious horsepower and tinkering...

It's truly not worth the trouble.
Yup. Major PITA, and something that ain't popular with the masses.

I just don't understand how even geeks can claim that illegal HD downloads are not a hassle. To repost what I said earlier... And by the way, this question from my GF actually was asked, and that first response is actually what I told her.

My GF: My friend's kids want to watch Shrek The Third on HD DVD on your projector. Can you set it up for them?

Me: I'm busy right now, but you can do it yourself. Just select "Xbox 360" the Harmony remote, and then hold the remote there for 10 seconds while it sends all the codes for the various devices. Then stick the movie in the HD DVD drive.

vs.

Me: Yeah, OK. Go to a torrent site and download the appropriate mkv torrent. Make sure it's a 2+ GB torrent that specifies 720p or better rez. Once you've got it downloaded (about 12 hours later), run xxxx to extract the x264 video and re-encode the audio to AAC 2.0, to be remuxed into an mp4 container and hope for Xbox 360 compatibility. It shouldn't take that long, maybe 15 minutes or so, but once you burn it, you will be able to check it on the Xbox 360. If the 360 says it's incompatible, you can try the conversion process again. You can check the various settings in the help file if you're having trouble. The end result should be OK, as long as you don't mind some digital artifacting and possible audio synchronization issues.
Even if you used usenet, you'd still have all the other barriers to getting the movie played on your 360...

..."in the same league" as HD DVD or Blu-ray on a large screen it most definitely isn't.If you have
-a projector accepting 1080/24p
-a player capable of 1080/24p output
-1:1 pixel mapping between the two
-proper setup of the whole chain
then you have a chance to see the superiority of native HD/BD playback.
...I just don't understand how even geeks can claim that illegal HD downloads are not a hassle....Leave the illegality aside for a second.
Ripping an HD movie, re-encoding it in 720p by cutting the size in half (under 10GB) using x264,
attaching EAC3 and playing on a 720p projector - you'll notice immediately it is not a DVD and you'll have to
pause and look at frames to see the difference compared to native HD playback on the same projector.
I don't mean in theory. I did this myself (no, I don't have golden eyes).

Diogen.

Instead of killing HDM, I think it will stop dual adoption. If someone has HD-DVD already and does not want to pay a lot for a blu ray player, they may opt to download the bluray movies they want, while still buying HD-DVD's.

If you have
-a projector accepting 1080/24p
-a player capable of 1080/24p output
-1:1 pixel mapping between the two
-proper setup of the whole chain
then you have a chance to see the superiority of native HD/BD playback.
Yes you do, but you don't need any of the above (except the proper setup part) to see the superiority of native HD/BD playback.

However, that's not the primary issue here for wider adoption. The wider issue is the hassle factor.

Leave the illegality aside for a second.
Ripping an HD movie, re-encoding it in 720p by cutting the size in half (under 10GB) using x264,
attaching EAC3 and playing on a 720p projector - you'll notice immediately it is not a DVD and you'll have to
pause and look at frames to see the difference compared to native HD playback on the same projector.
I don't mean in theory. I did this myself (no, I don't have golden eyes).

Diogen.
And that wasn't a hassle? At least you didn't have to go scouring the torrent sites and usenet to find the movie yourself... only to find that it's in a format that is not compatible with the Xbox 360.

You know, I somehow missed this was not the HTPC section.
I believe some (most?) will find this a hassle. I won't.

Diogen.

You know, I somehow missed this was not the HTPC section.
I believe some (most?) will find this a hassle. I won't.

Diogen.
Well, that's the point. Most people are not HTPC fanatics.

Huh? Like I said before, maybe that's the case on a very small display, but "better" than DVD in terms of image qualitycan mean a lot of things, but "in the same league" as HD DVD or Blu-ray on a large screen it most definitely isn't.

First off, I find DVD to be quite good on my 110" (@1.5x viewing distance) 720p CIH setup (IN76). I find the difference between DVD and HD to be apparent, but not earth shaking. I would say OTA HD is "in the same league" as HD DVD or Blu-ray. "In the same league" to me means the differences you're talking about are not "major". Or to put it another way, if you consider HD DVD/Blu-ray to be a league, there is quite a range of qualities there, if the difference between another option and HD DVD/Blu-ray is within the variance of quality in HD DVD/Blu-ray then I say they're in the same league.

And even that notwithstanding, the main problem with bootleg HD is the hassle factor, which is absolutely enormous by optical media standards.

Personally I find HD DVD and Blu-ray to be quite a hassle as well. In my Netflix and purchase experience, I've had a number of discs not play for various reasons. Bigger hassle is that there are no good players for either format on the PC. Being unable to place a copy on my media server without resorting to extraordinary measures is a hassle. Firmware updates for my player are a hassle.

Yup. Major PITA, and something that ain't popular with the masses.

Honestly, that's the way I feel about HD in general. Can't record HD, can't play HD without "blessed" hardware, can't rip HD, yada yada yada.

I just don't understand how even geeks can claim that illegal HD downloads are not a hassle. To repost what I said earlier... And by the way, this question from my GF actually was asked, and that first response is actually what I told her.

Because geeks are geeks. We build our own PCs, we build our own HD movie players, PVRs, we configure our own systems, program our own remotes. Downloading something on the internet is nothing compared to all that.

And again, my point was that the inclusion of DivX says a lot about the priorities of the mass market, that their priorities are convenience and portability over quality. IT's been shown time and time again. I don't think anybody in this thread has said that downloading movies off usenet or the like will kill HD optical. I know I have not.

Yes you do, but you don't need any of the above (except the proper setup part) to see the superiority of native HD/BD playback.

It amazes me how nit-picky many here are, that they can't seem to acknowledge that (for example) the difference between HD lite and HD DVD/Blu-ray is quite subtle. Sure most of us here can spot it, but most people have no idea, and I know I for one am not bothered by the difference.

And that wasn't a hassle? At least you didn't have to go scouring the torrent sites and usenet to find the movie yourself... only to find that it's in a format that is not compatible with the Xbox 360.

Of course that was a hastle, as someone who's been following things so that I can begin archiving my HD DVDs I'd say it's far more of a hastle to do that than it is to go find an illegal copy somewhere. But you missed the point, diogen is saying that a 720p conversion of an HD movie is not obviously different than the original.

I'd actually forgotten what this section of the forum was like, where nobody cares about fair use, connectivity, or anything else so long as it's got the bitrate maxed out and lossless audio.

.... is that by formally annoucing divx support, Sony may be helping to open the flood gates.

Wouldnt it be ironic that by Sony (or MS) officially supporting Divx/Xvid they actually encourge file illegeal sharing. We all know Sony is a torn company with conflicting interests of supporting what consumers want on the hardware side along with what studios want as a content provider. Of late they have been heavily biased towrds the content side of the company, to the detriment of the consumer. Maybe this added feature is a little giveback from shoving their foot up consumers as*es for so many years?

...Maybe this added feature is a little giveback from shoving their foot up consumers as*es for so many years?Wow!
Are you saying Sony has done something that actually makes sense? :)
Nahhh... PS3 doesn't sell as good as hoped for. This affects many business divisions of the company including the BD wing.
Anything to remedy this situation is now "the right thing to do". If/when the sales numbers are fixed they will f*ck up this feature with an "upgrade". :eek:

Diogen.

I don't think anybody in this thread has said that downloading movies off usenet or the like will kill HD optical.
That's the point of the thread actually.

I know I have not.
Good, then we are in agreement. ;)

It amazes me how nit-picky many here are, that they can't seem to acknowledge that (for example) the difference between HD lite and HD DVD/Blu-ray is quite subtle. Sure most of us here can spot it, but most people have no idea, and I know I for one am not bothered by the difference.
It amazes me how far people are willing to go for the ultimate geekified HTPC setup with illegal downloaded geek format files, and then try to suggest it's no more of a hassle than simply buying / renting a disc and putting in a standalone player.

Of course that was a hastle, as someone who's been following things so that I can begin archiving my HD DVDs I'd say it's far more of a hastle to do that than it is to go find an illegal copy somewhere. But you missed the point, diogen is saying that a 720p conversion of an HD movie is not obviously different than the original.
Yeah, if you want to create a home media system with your HTPC and archive all of your movies. That's fine, but right now and for the foreseeable short term future (ie. the life span of the PS3 and 360), most people's archives (like mine) consist of a shelf of physical discs.

I'd actually forgotten what this section of the forum was like, where nobody cares about fair use, connectivity, or anything else so long as it's got the bitrate maxed out and lossless audio.
Or where people would rather spend a few bux rather than try to download problematic files, only to have to spend more time tinkering to just get them to play.

In truth I do believe that downloaded files will eventually be the primary movie format for home use. I just don't think it will be from problematic and downloaded files requiring a complex home theatre setup.

I think the time will come, but only when the distribution and management of these things improves dramatically. Maybe that will happen with everyone has 20 Mbps pipes (and not just a few geeks at AVS), and set top management movie download systems get built with high ease of use, low cost, and good quality.

It amazes me how nit-picky many here are, that they can't seem to acknowledge that (for example) the difference between HD lite and HD DVD/Blu-ray is quite subtle. Sure most of us here can spot it, but most people have no idea, and I know I for one am not bothered by the difference.
It amazes me how far people are willing to go for the ultimate geekified HTPC setup with illegal downloaded geek format files, and then try to suggest it's no more of a hassle than simply buying / renting a disc and putting in a standalone player.Since we moved to the "What amazes me" issue, I'd like to add my 2 cents.
I can understand people preferring standalone players to HTPCs, but it amazes me how fast anything that requires
a quater of a brain and not having the extreme form of ADD is relegated to geekdom, illegal downloads and hacking.
And as we all know, hackers are terrorists...:)

Diogen.

Since we moved to the "What amazes me" issue, I'd like to add my 2 cents.
I can understand people preferring standalone players to HTPCs, but it amazes me how fast anything that requires
a quater of a brain and not having the extreme form of ADD is relegated to geekdom, illegal downloads and hacking.
Something requiring a brain doesn't necessarily mean it's geekdom, illegal, and hacking.

However, HTPC setups for hi-def usenet/torrent downloads ARE geekdom, illegal, and hacking.

With a DIVX version, you can make a copy that plays on you Zune/iPod/etc.

DIVX is clearly the pirates' format of choice. But if one wants to watch a movie on "Zune/iPod/etc", one might as well use a DVD-rip rather than an HD-rip. With screens that small, HD is pointless.

Seriously guys, dvd rips are easy as hell to get and are cheap. yet it doesnt make a dent in DVD sales. theres nothing to suggest that this would either. especially b/c, as mentioned, even if i could thats more trouble than its worth.

Seriously guys, dvd rips are easy as hell to get and are cheap. yet it doesnt make a dent in DVD sales. theres nothing to suggest that this would either. especially b/c, as mentioned, even if i could thats more trouble than its worth.
Actually, DVD rips have in fact made a dent in DVD sales.

However, the key point is that bootlegs have in no way "killed" DVD sales.

I just watched a 350mb divx episode of Deadwood on my 360 and it looked as good as an upconverted dvd on my PS3 looks which is pretty good for not being HD. But I don't think it will kill hdm, the prices of the movies and each side buying support to c**k block the other sides sales instead of letting the consumer decide might kill it.

And to all that say divx is only for pirates. try ripping a whole season of your store bought tv series and burn them to ONE disc in dvd format, you can't but you can if they are encoded to divx. Then you can use them wherever you want without ruining the originals. Plus the 360 upconverts divx files for an added bonus.

Actually, DVD rips have in fact made a dent in DVD sales.And this comes from...?

Diogen.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ethical problems involved in illegal downloads. You can rationalize it any way you like but stealing movies is stealing. It's not good for you in a kharmic sense.

I know there are some who purchase movies and rip them for convenience, but again, let's get real. That's not even a small slice of the whole set.

I made my living most of my adult life selling intellectual property, so it's possible I'm a little biased.

I know there are some who purchase movies and rip them for convenience, but again, let's get real.Let's do that. I'm one of them. Now what?
As much as you hate people "stealing", I hate people implying that interest in encoding can't have anything to do with not "stealing"...

Diogen.

Sorry diogen, I'm not accusing you of anything. But there's been pretty graphic piracy workflows discussed.

There's NO WAY a second generation down-rezzed divx copy is ever going to compare with a pristine AVC or VC-1 original. Pirated copies is what it's used for in the vast majority of cases. I'm just saying, besides the quality loss there are other issues involved. For another thing, piracy just begets more obnoxious DRM.

No way divx or xvid would compare, x264, however would.

No way divx or xvid would compare, x264, however would.

That's what the pirated 3 pirates copy was made in... x264. It looked pristine. It looked better than 720p, in all honesty. The file name said it was 1080p from blu-ray. I'll have to go back to that shop and take some good hi-rez photos when the sales guy isn't looking.

No way divx or xvid would compare, x264, however would.
Not really. I have seen many bootleg x264 files and have done a fair amount of x264 encoding myself (albeit the x264 encoding I've done has mostly been at SD resolutions).

It always looks noticeably different, unless you use relatively high bitrates. One of the things it tends to do is soften out grain for example. Now, many people would prefer soft images to grainy images, but that's a different argument. The point I'm making here is that it's not accurate to the source.

x264 is an excellent codec, but it definitely isn't magic.

Oh and the majority of x264 HD encodes out there won't even play on the 360 or PS3 anyway, unless you do some file conversions. Again, big hassle factor, and that's not even considering getting the file in the first place.

AVC is H.264. wtf?

AVC is H.264. wtf?
Yes AVC is H.264. WTF what?

Were you referring to my post above? If so, and if you're commenting about my statement that x264 files not playing on the consoles, it's because they don't support the .mkv container. Also for audio, the 360 only supports AAC in stereo. ie. If you download an HD .mkv file, it won't play on the Xbox 360 without conversion/modification.

For another thing, piracy just begets more obnoxious DRM.

I disagree strongly, but this thread probably isn't the place to get into it.

Maybe some one can help. Can DRM be applied to Divx?

You could have a digital download service that downloads divx files. People who want discs could burn them to DL DVDs and play them back on 360s, PS3s, and all the Divx DVD players. After all there are 3x more divx players than HDM players.

I just watched a 350mb divx episode of Deadwood on my 360 and it looked as good as an upconverted dvd on my PS3 looks which is pretty good for not being HD. But I don't think it will kill hdm, the prices of the movies and each side buying support to c**k block the other sides sales instead of letting the consumer decide might kill it.

And to all that say divx is only for pirates. try ripping a whole season of your store bought tv series and burn them to ONE disc in dvd format, you can't but you can if they are encoded to divx. Then you can use them wherever you want without ruining the originals. Plus the 360 upconverts divx files for an added bonus.

sorry i don't buy this at all - 350 mb divx rips and even 700 mb divx rips for that matter look HORRIFICALLY bad. You can see the macroblocking in the background. We're talking youtube/webcam type quality on an HDTV.

If your tv is 27", yeah it might look like HD to you, but on anything over 37" it looks terrible.

Simple question - if 350 mb looks so good, why are studios wasting time with 50 gb disc formats?

Judging by the reception of HD optical, that's a good question.

Maybe some one can help. Can DRM be applied to Divx?

You could have a digital download service that downloads divx files. People who want discs could burn them to DL DVDs and play them back on 360s, PS3s, and all the Divx DVD players. After all there are 3x more divx players than HDM players.

Sony is working with Divx to provide a download service that has at least their TV shows, if not shows from other studios and movies. All with DRM.

It will work on Divx Certified devices, like some media extenders. At this time the 360 is not a Divx Certified device, so these files are not intented to work with a 360.

More info can be found on Engadget and Arstechnica.

FWIW, this will not interfere with my BD renting/purchasing, but it might be something I try for a show that I can't get on my TiVo S3 in HD.

Admit it or not. It will hurt the sales of fence movies.

Fences Movies: Movies you kinda want but don't want to spend $20-$30 on.

Which is why the movie industry should offer something like legitimate lower bitrate 720p content that people can buy, download and burn for a price. I see plenty of movies that I'd like in high def but not for the full retail they are asking. So why not offer something in between?

Sony and MS and Apple understand this which is why they are working on the online services.

Piracy won't be stopped but it thrives because there is a market need that is not being met legitimately. Industry trying to force people into things at higher prices creates a market for the underground.

High def disks like blu-ray and hd dvd with all it's slick interactivity, package & polish is not easily duplicated for mass piracy. Plenty of people will pay the premium for it if it's reasonable.

Leaked memo: Time Warner Cable to trial hard bandwidth caps (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080116-leaked-memo-time-warner-cable-to-trial-hard-bandwidth-caps.html)

Under the proposed scheme, new customers will be able to choose from a couple of different plans with varying bandwidth caps. They'll be given online tools to monitor usage and will be able to upgrade to the next higher tier of service to avoid charges for exceeding their monthly bandwidth limit. If the trial works well, Time Warner would then roll out bandwidth caps to current customers: "We will use the results of the trial to evaluate results for possible future nationwide rollouts," reads the memo.

Loooking into my crystal ball - I see the death of Blu Ray coming way before other modes of HD content become mainstream. The players are too expensive, Average Joe can't worry about buggy systems and finished specs, and there's too much confusion out there. Neither HD DVD or Blu Ray will last nearly as long as the DVD format has. What will be next - who knows, but I think these two formats are doomed. I still love my HD DVD player, but will not be buying anything else until the dust settles - or until there is a real psychic that frequents these boards.

That mentality is that convenience and price are far more important to most people than quality. One need look no further than the music industry to see this mentality in action. MP3s took off because they're incredibly convenient. "Digital music" is huge today because of convenience, not quality.


MP3s took off because they were Free. Not because of convinience. Back in the day, you had to take the MP3 and burn it to CD. That wasnt very convinient.

Today, you have the added value of convinience.

Leaked memo: Time Warner Cable to trial hard bandwidth caps (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080116-leaked-memo-time-warner-cable-to-trial-hard-bandwidth-caps.html)

Under the proposed scheme, new customers will be able to choose from a couple of different plans with varying bandwidth caps. They'll be given online tools to monitor usage and will be able to upgrade to the next higher tier of service to avoid charges for exceeding their monthly bandwidth limit. If the trial works well, Time Warner would then roll out bandwidth caps to current customers: "We will use the results of the trial to evaluate results for possible future nationwide rollouts," reads the memo


I would have no issues with this, if they followed the same protocol in their cable TV pricing: only paying for those channels you actually watch.

If Comcast increases broadband pricing based on usage, I may actually cancel my pay channels and start downloading shows instead. I already pay close to 200.00 a month for cable, and I can only watch one show at a time.

Art

Blu Ray will never be as successful as dvd. I am sure of that.

Kind of like I think we have seen the end of multi platinum selling artists. Who the hell is buying CDs these days? No one.

It's just a different world now, and things are changing.
Doesn't mean we can't have HDM, it just won't blow up like people think.

Sony is working with Divx to provide a download service that has at least their TV shows, if not shows from other studios and movies. All with DRM.

It will work on Divx Certified devices, like some media extenders. At this time the 360 is not a Divx Certified device, so these files are not intented to work with a 360.

...

Hey, just to clarify, the Sony agreement with DivX covers ALL content, not just TV shows.

Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

Hey, just to clarify, the Sony agreement with DivX covers ALL content, not just TV shows.

Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

Is there a deal in the works with Microsoft and the 360?

Hey, just to clarify, the Sony agreement with DivX covers ALL content, not just TV shows.

Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

Sweet, how about a timeline or estimated launch date?

Any specifics about filesizes, resolutions, sound format, bitrate, etc.?

Is there a deal in the works with Microsoft and the 360?

Nothing at this time, no. Not that we wouldn't be happy to work with Microsoft! :D

I would have no issues with this, if they followed the same protocol in their cable TV pricing: only paying for those channels you actually watch.

If Comcast increases broadband pricing based on usage, I may actually cancel my pay channels and start downloading shows instead. I already pay close to 200.00 a month for cable, and I can only watch one show at a time.

Art

Art,
I couldn't agree more... don't nickel and dime us without allowing us to nickel and dime back. The truth is we will never get ala carte TV service until IPTV becomes the norm if ever.

Without WDM support also, any Divx support through the PS3 is going to be limited and not more than what it currently is beign offered.The 360/XBL is supporting just about every major codec, including windows media, so any changes ushered in will likely be due to changes MS made to the 360/XBL codec/media support.While the PS3 support does help, Sony is trying to push BluRay on everyone and really doesn't want people choosing direct download options over BR.

Sweet, how about a timeline or estimated launch date?

Any specifics about filesizes, resolutions, sound format, bitrate, etc.?

Timeline is dependent on a number of factors, most notably that there will need to be a third party retailer. Neither Sony or DivX is likely to sell content directly.

The initial content will be SD, but beyond that, I don't have too many specific details, sorry. All of this SD content, though, would have to accord to DivX Certification profiles, so MP3 or AC3 audio, with an avg video bitrate of around 4 Mb/s.

I was just reading that you can now burn an HD DVD with a certain codec to DL DVD-Rs. If done properly tou can fit close to 2 hours of 1080 content on the disc. If you use 720p you can fit more. With mpeg2 you could only fit about an hour on a disc.

Since you can already find just about every Blu-ray title in a 360 friendly format, how long until we see Blu-ray rips in an HD DVD format?

People would just download them and burn them to discs tha cost about 30 cents.

Clearly this is illegal, but sadly you know it will happen.:(

Timeline is dependent on a number of factors, most notably that there will need to be a third party retailer. Neither Sony or DivX is likely to sell content directly.

The initial content will be SD, but beyond that, I don't have too many specific details, sorry. All of this SD content, though, would have to accord to DivX Certification profiles, so MP3 or AC3 audio, with an avg video bitrate of around 4 Mb/s.

Can't say that sounds too exciting. SD content and most likely it will be a while till it's rolled out. I think Sony just wanted some good press so they announced this new "deal". :P

Hey, just to clarify, the Sony agreement with DivX covers ALL content, not just TV shows.

Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

Won't the current ps3 2 gig limit on Divx be an issue for any HD content? 50 minutes of 720p HD, decently-ecoded, produces a 2.2 gig+ file.

This announcement is great news, nevertheless. I am a big Divx fan.

Brian

Can't say that sounds too exciting. SD content and most likely it will be a while till it's rolled out. I think Sony just wanted some good press so they announced this new "deal". :P

Fair enough, but from our perspective, it's very exciting to get a major studio to so publicly endorse DivX. We're working to make sure Sony isn't the last, either. :D

Fair enough, but from our perspective, it's very exciting to get a major studio to so publicly endorse DivX. We're working to make sure Sony isn't the last, either. :D

Sorry to get side-tracked here, but I have yet to get an answer to this...

Are there SD DVD/Divx players that can play HD Divx (like the HD profile) and not downconvert them to 480i first. I have seen players that output 1080i and upscale SD DVD, but I am not sure what they are doing with Divx.

Thanks in advance!

Fair enough, but from our perspective, it's very exciting to get a major studio to so publicly endorse DivX. We're working to make sure Sony isn't the last, either. :D

I didn't mean to sound so negative.. I think it's very awesome Divx is getting a good push. However, I just can't imagine Sony being ultra supportive seeing how downloads is probably a bigger competitor than HD-DVD at this point. :P I hope to see more support on the 360 as so many people already have one, and MS is very clear about downloads being the future.. the potential is enormous. I want download to own HD movies, and I want it easy and cost effective!

Are there SD DVD/Divx players that can play HD Divx (like the HD profile) and not downconvert them to 480i first. I have seen players that output 1080i and upscale SD DVD, but I am not sure what they are doing with Divx.

Thanks in advance!

There are SD DVD players that can also do 720p DivX, and they've been around a while. Smaller companies like IO-Data and Buffalo made them, but I'm not sure of their current status.

Those players were Red Laser based of course, but we are working currently on getting DivX, both SD and HD, and both ASP and H.264, on to Blue Laser devices (we are format neutral :p) before long.

There are SD DVD players that can also do 720p DivX, and they've been around a while. Smaller companies like IO-Data and Buffalo made them, but I'm not sure of their current status.

Those players were Red Laser based of course, but we are working currently on getting DivX, both SD and HD, and both ASP and H.264, on to Blue Laser devices (we are format neutral :p) before long.

Do those DVD players I see at Walmart for like $79 that say "Divx Ultra" play HD Divx files?

Do those DVD players I see at Walmart for like $79 that say "Divx Ultra" play HD Divx files?

No, DivX Ultra is extended multimedia functionality (menus, subtitles, multiple audio tracks), but those players are definitely SD at that price point.

High def disks like blu-ray and hd dvd with all it's slick interactivity, package & polish is not easily duplicated for mass piracy. Plenty of people will pay the premium for it if it's reasonable.

I think there was a large group of people called blu bois (:D) who did not use this slick, premium interactivity when it first arrived on HD DVD almost 2 years ago. Where does this put all the DVD bois who haven't moved to neither blu-ray nor HD DVD (:rolleyes:) ?

During the 80's I used to watch a lot of pirated VHS movies with hebrew subtitles (obviously from Israel ;)) and just terrible PQ/SQ, but it still rocked because they were new movies! Today it's fully possible to download a fresh pirated DivX movie within 1 hour, so things have truly evolved.
The rather new resolutions 720p and 1080p are wonderful but you need to strain your eyes to tell them apart from DVD so I don't think they have the intrinsic power to attract the DVD bois. I think Xbox Video Marketplace and AppleTV are much better at doing this, since they compete with easily accessible DivX. Sadly for me, I've had 100mbit for 3 years now with no such thing as legal download service, I'm in a bit of a twilight zone :(. Looking into the future I see myself buying blu-rays and HD DVDs for the real gems in film history, but most movies will probably be rented via some services e.g. AppleTV and rare movies will be DVDs for sure.

If DivX doesn't kill blu-ray, the lack of movies on blu-ray as well as the rich diversity on DVD sure is :).

Illegal downloads won't replace HDM.

A) They're illegal.

Yep


B) They a humungous hassle to get.

Umm no they are easy to find, actually a lot easier then trying to find a legal download of the movie you want.


C) They take forever to download.

With torrent you are able to get them faster than you could from the nearest store ;)


D) The quality sucks.

Depends on what you download, but yeah they aren't anywhere near HD DVD or BD quality unless you download a direct rip.


E) The encoding sucks, not just for quality, but also because the people doing them don't seem to know how to encode anything to meet any sort of common spec. Ie. If you download something, you shouldn't expect it always to actually work as is on something like a 360. Yeah, they may work on a computer, but most people don't run a HTPC with VLC in their living room.

Yeah, but quality vice most of the new 720p encodes even top DVD quality.

But in real world I don't see this as a threat to physical media, it is more of an threat to dowloaded content as you can pretty much get everyting from a single place and with out DRM when you pirate. Same can not be said about legal download you'd have to be registered to many places to get the content you want and then they showe DRM down your throat so that you can't play the files on your portable player etc. + they are priced too high compared to their distribution cost and even physical media.

Its a very real possibility. Sony could have infected the PS3 and BD with a very real killer virus that may slow HDM growth.